Olatunde Osunsanmi spent five seasons as the producing director for Star Trek: Discovery, and so he was tasked with directing Star Trek: Section 31, the streaming movie that carries on the story of Emperor Georgiou from Discovery. At New York Comic Con, TrekMovie spoke Osunsanmi in a roundtable interview with other media outlets, where he gave us an outline of the movie, its characters, and how it is different than Discovery. He also discussed the challenge of making Phillipa Georgiou sympathetic, and where exactly the organization of Section 31 fits in within the Starfleet we know and love. [WARNING: Interview contains some spoilers]
So how would you describe this movie?
This is an action adventure-movie set in the Star Trek world, and it follows a group of operatives that are the CIA of Starfleet in Section 31 and they are on a mission out on the edge of the galaxy, in an area where Starfleet is not allowed and not able to operate. And they go over there with Philippa Georgiou, played by Michelle Yeoh, and Kacey Rohl, who plays Rachel Garrett, and they kick ass. And it’s a lot of fun. And we’re really excited for you guys to see it.
With a young Rachel Garrett, you’re in a “lost era” of Trek [between the TOS movies and The Next Generation]. So did that give you more freedom to play?
It gave a little bit of freedom. But I don’t feel like you ever have that much freedom within Star Trek, because it doesn’t belong to us. Frequently when I’m writing and directing something, that’s mine and I’m sharing it with the audience and with the public and everybody else. But within Star Trek, it’s yours, it’s the audience’s. And I grew up watching Star Trek. But now that I’m making it, I have to make it for everybody else, solely, in a lot of ways. Sure, I get joy out of it too. But yeah, we had to be very careful to say, ‘Okay, we’re not quite yet at TNG and we’re not TOS.’ And so where’s the technology? And how does that work? And how does it feel real for the time period we’re trying to represent?
Can you give a flavor to the circumstances under which we first meet the characters?
I can’t say anything. They’re on a mission. They’re on a mission as spy/intelligence gathering organization and doing Section 31 things.
Omari Hardwick [Alok] and Rob Kazinsky [Zeph] are also here at NYCC, what can you tell us about their characters?
Alok is the is the team leader, and he is on a wonderful journey of self-discovery as well as figuring out who he is and why he’s here, and he’s a veritable badass. And Rob is a is playing Zeph, and he is a guy who has an exoskeleton on him that allows him to do a pretty incredible things, strength-wise, and also use the technology of the exoskeleton to manipulate the areas around him. And he’s a lot of fun. He throws a lot of jokes. Both of them were tailor-made to these roles and I think you’re really going to enjoy everything.
Rachel Garrett (Kacey Rohl), Georgiou (Michelle Yeoh), Zeph (Rob Kazinsky), and Alok (Omari Hardwick) in Section 31 (Paramount+ trailer)
What do you say to Star Trek fans who are worried about about the tone of Section 31 versus the optimistic Star Trek view?
Section 31 always brings up those emotions in Star Trek fans, for understandable reasons. What we can say is we worked really hard to make sure we kept up the ideals of optimism and kept up the ideals of what do we want our society to be in the future, and in the end, Section 31 is good, and it’s fun and it’s a joy. Hopefully they’re pleasantly surprised.
We’ve seen Section 31 in different eras. We’ve seen it completely secretive, and then everybody knows about it. Where is it in this era?
That’s a that’s a tough one to answer, because of the timeline that we’re sort of playing with here. It’s interesting because Section 31 it’s—depending on which Star Trek series you come into, different people within Starfleet and the Federation know different things about it, and there’s a lot of conspiracy and angst about that. I can say that with this one, we’re inside of Section 31, so the people within the story certainly know a lot about what the organization is.
Is there any sort of real-world analogy of how Starfleet and Section 31 interact? What is that relationship like? Is it like the CIA?
I would say yes, Section 31 is to Starfleet what the CIA is to the Pentagon, or the CIA is to the military complex of the United States. I almost want to find a different analogy depending on which era you talk about. You could also say Section 31 is to Starfleet what the “Legacy Program” is to the Pentagon. And you’re probably like “What is the Legacy Program?” Like, say, Deep Space Nine, when Section 31 was first introduced, not everybody knew what Section 31 was. And the Legacy Program handles UAPs [unidentified anomalous phenomena] for the United States of America, UFOs. And it’s just now starting to come out what the Legacy Program is, because of different whistleblowers like David Grush or [Luis] Elizondo. The more we find out about it, the more it’s like “Oh my god, they do that?” That doesn’t sound very United States. And Section 31 is “Oh my god, that doesn’t sound very Starfleet or Federation.” And you hold up the ideals, but they do all the stuff that Starfleet can’t, or won’t, or doesn’t want to admit to having to do. And our movie isn’t that dark. Our movie is fun and full of life, and it’s also inspiration. And that was a delicate balance to to walk, particularly with a lead character like Philippa Georgiou.
We see some of we see a young Georgiou in the teaser trailer… Are we going to see a lot of that?
You’ll get a healthy dose of young Georgiou. And it’s always kind of nice to see when you’re looking at the characters you love, where they came from. I’m trying not to give too much away.
And is that so to help viewers maybe become more sympathetic to who she became? Will we get some deeper understanding of her through that?
You will, yeah. You’ll get a deeper understanding of why she is who she is. And hopefully, you’ll sympathize with that as well.
Miku Martineau as young Georgiou (Paramount+ trailer screencap)
We’re coming up on five years since this was first announced as a spin-off series. When did you first get attached to it? And how would you say the scope of the project has changed?
I was attached to it from the get-go. Alex [Kurtzman] approached me and asked if I would direct and come aboard and do it. And Craig Sweeny, the writer, delivered a draft at the time, and it was a TV show. We had a lot of people that were involved in Discovery involved as well, and, and so we’re all really excited. And I spoke with Michelle [Yeoh] and the studio, and then for a variety of reasons and schedules and conflicts, and it just kept falling apart.
And Michelle became the busiest actress in Hollywood.
That’s right. But you know what, she stuck with it. And it’s better, actually, that we had to wait to get it made, because the story kept changing and getting better and better and being nipped and tucked. And then we ended up with a movie, and we ended up with an unbelievable cast around Michelle that we never would have had. The characters are totally different from the TV show. So the cast we ended up with is, for me, it was Christmas morning every time I came to set, and that would not have happened if we’d made it five years ago.
Ash Tyler from Discovery [left in charge of Section 31 in season 3] could have been a part of this. Is there a reason why he wasn’t?
We love Shazad [Latif]. The way Section 31 works and the way it was fighting wars, and part of the Temporal Wars, that could have worked out. But that was just a function of the rewrites. He just didn’t fit into this particular story. But we would have loved to have him.
Section 31 operatives Ash Tyler (Shazad Latif) and Georgiou (Michelle Yeoh) in season 2 of Discovery (Paramount+.
So this isn’t a theatrical feature, but it’s a two-hour movie with an Oscar winner in the lead. So how does it feel different for you from a big two-parter Discovery episode?
Well, because it’s one complete story. The wonderful thing about Section 31 being a movie and not a TV show is it’s just one complete story. And so I get to chart and do all my script analysis and tie everything together by the end. And you know, in the actual shooting of it, it was great, because when you shoot a TV show you’re maxing out the crew, the cast, to about 80% of what they can handle, because it’s a marathon. You don’t want to burn them out, right? Because you’re going over 10 hours of material, or 14 hours of material, whatever it may be over the course of the year on a movie, you can max everybody out to 100% because it’s gonna be over in a couple months. And the exhaustion, everyone can recover from the exhaustion. And I pushed them, I pushed them all. And so what was really great about Section 31 the movie was, we got to push everything to the extreme. You know, whether that be emotion, performances, action, you name it, we got to, we got to max it out. I don’t get to do that very often.
You have a very distinctive directing style on Discovery. So did you carry that over? Or did you take influences from other kinds of genre movies or anything else?
I took all of my experiences on Discovery on the logistics side and carried it over. But then a lot of my instincts on the creative side, visual side, I broke down. I broke myself down, and then built myself up again based off the script that Craig Sweeny wrote so that it felt new and fresh. Because one of the things I think Alex Kurtzman has done really well in continuing this franchise is creating different flavors of Star Trek. And this was a different flavor that he wanted to present, you know, it’s like ice cream, you know, you know, we got multiple flavors, and hopefully the Trek audience loves this flavor as well. So it was really important to me to do something different.
Is it, in fact, two hours? Are you still editing it?
It’s just under two hours, actually. We’ve locked the cut, and we’re in ADR sound, visual effects, color, we’re on the home stretch.
Even though it’s a self-contained movie, is the door open to tell more stories with it afterwards?
Oh absolutely, yeah. The door is wide open. You all just have to love it.
(L-R) Kacey Rohl, Omari Hardwick, Rob Kazinsky and Olatunde Osunsanmi attends the Lower Decks Reception during New York Comic Con at Bar Primi on October 19, 2024 in New York City. (Photo by Santiago Felipe/Getty Images for Paramount+)
NOTE: Interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.
Section 31 movie in January
Star Trek: Section 31 will premiere on Friday, January 24, 2025, exclusively on Paramount+ in the U.S. and international markets where the service is available. In the movie, Michelle Yeoh reprises her Star Trek: Discovery role as Emperor Philippa Georgiou who joins Section 31, a secret division of Starfleet. According to the brief synopsis: “Tasked with protecting the United Federation of Planets, she also must face the sins of her past.”
Section 31 also stars Omari Hardwick (Power), Kacey Rohl (Hannibal), Emmy® winner Sam Richardson (Ted Lasso), Sven Ruygrok (One Piece), Robert Kazinsky (Pacific Rim), Humberly Gonzalez (Ginny & Georgia) and James Hiroyuki Liao (Barry). Miku Martineau (Kate) portrays a young Philippa Georgiou.
More from NYCC
Check out our coverage of the Star Trek Universe panel, which also included the Section 31 movie, Starfleet Academy, and Strange New Worlds.
Keep up with news about the Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com.
I wonder if we’re going to see some SNW-styled monster maroons…
That would be ok, especially since we see the monster maroons (without the division undershirt) in Picard’s Stargazer days.
I’d seriously doubt they give a damn about that sort of continuity. We’ll be lucky to see a ship with a saucer section, I’d say.
I really really really hope this turns out great. I really do. And I did like a lot of his answers. But at the moment I’m not even cautiously optimistic I will like this. Just based on the trailer alone, it really does nothing for me. But it’s just a trailer, I know.
And I just recently listened to the last podcast talking about this movie and it’s pretty funny Anthony specifically says that you can’t really compare Section 31 to the CIA because the CIA is an official part of the government in America like everything else. It’s not a secret or lives in mythology. And while there isn’t a tour, everyone knows where it is. In fact, Star Trek does have a better comparison to the CIA in the show. It’s literally called Starfleet Intelligence, was introduced in TOS and has been part of every show since. And like the CIA it has a building too, answers directly to Starfleet and has someone who publicly runs it who is picked for the job just like the CIA.
But oddly that seems to be forgotten and Section 31 gets this usual mistaken comparison over and over again including by Osunsanmi it seems. Not a huge deal, just a nerdy nitpick. And I think maybe it would’ve been a better comparison if Section 31 was basically like the Impossible Missions Force in the Mission Impossible movies and it’s a secret branch of Starfleet Intelligence like that organization is suppose to be in the CIA that basically runs itself and answers to no one. That would’ve made much more sense.
This (first) trailer is awful. It’s so bad that I wonder if they did more edits or reshooting after viewer reactions.
The writers of THE AMERICANS had real-world intelligence community experience. The writers of MI-5/SPOOKS, too — I once attended an event at Chatham House (a UK think tank) where they discussed what lessons screenwriters could offer the real-world intelligence community. (It remains one of the favorite think tank events I’ve attended!) That’s before we even get to Tom Clancy.
I don’t get similar vibes from NuTrek types whatsoever, which is why I think this project may be a fiasco.
Yeah I LOVED The Americans. That was a great show. I came to it pretty late but started watching it when it was in its fourth season IIRC. Binged it like crazy.
And Section 31 doesn’t have to completely reflect the real world of spies but it should at least adhere to its own rules and logic. Discovery already shot that out of a canon which made people like me not excited about a show at all. And so we got this movie instead and yeah it’s just the trailer but it still just feels so far removed of what we got when Sloan first appeared on DS9.
But I’m going to stay positive and at least hope they don’t screw it up any more than they already have IMO. In a LOT of people’s opinions.
LIked AMERICANS a lot and think SPOOKS is the best spy show ever — if those writers had been doing Bond this century, the result would have been drastically superior to what I’ve suffered through.
last half of ‘spectre’, set in london, felt a lot like an episode of ‘spooks’
Yeah, right out of the box, I too was more than a bit concerned with the CIA analogy. As you said, the CIA is an official agency of the U.S. government and its leadership is totally accountable for its actions. Meanwhile, at least in Enterprise and DS9, S31 is a secretive part of the Federation and often times not accountable to anyone in Starfleet and its predecessor – although Starfleet, Starfleet Medical and Starfleet Intelligence did backup and support S31’s attempted genocide of the Founders – so from that standpoint I guess the CIA analogy works.
It sounds to me like they are going to use artistic license to get around what fans already know about S31, at least in Enterprise and DS9. By putting this movie in the so-called Lost-era, I guess that works. Ultimately, if the movie is good, then fans will accept it – if the movie is bad, then it will be mocked and ridiculed. We shall see come January.
Thinking about it, I guess what he is saying is 100% accurate if you look at how they were portrayed on Discovery of course since Section 31 really did feel like a division of Starfleet. But that was literally the entire problem lol. And they kept saying the show (at the time) would show how it ultimately lives in the shadows and not so connected to Starfleet but then he says this.
This is why most people are so down on it because the trailer already feels like something very foreign to the original concept and then he says this. Maybe the final product will actually feel something closer to the organization we got in DS9/ENT, but right now I’m very skeptical this will even be good. But fingers crossed and all of that.
the OS and M:I the legacy of desilu
Thank you very much for your reply on the other thread ;)
As you, me, and many others here have correctly said (including on this thread), Osunsanmi has got the nature of Section 31 completely wrong. It’s absolutely not the equivalent of the CIA. Either he’s not aware of Starfleet Intelligence, or for some reason he’s having problems understanding the complexities of S31 and the way its activities overlap with Starfleet without S31 actually being part of the latter.
If anything, Starfleet’s various divisions are part of the Federation’s unacknowledged “deep state” network officially designated Section 31, not the other way around.
Considering the UFO stuff that you and I have been following, it’s also interesting to see Osunsamni referring to it:
Okay, now we’re getting somewhere. You’ll remember me suggesting that Section 31’s historical origins could be linked to the alleged real-life UFO/aliens-related programs, assuming that Trek’s showrunners wanted to tackle this subject. However, based on the quote above, there seems to be a problem here too: Osunsamni hasn’t properly done his homework or he doesn’t correctly understand this stuff either. As I’m sure you already know, the alleged “Legacy Program” (for want of a better term) doesn’t involve just the Pentagon; apparently it’s a broader program involving *multiple* government departments with different responsibilities, multiple intelligence agencies also with different responsibilities, along with private companies. An actual “deep state” network.
So Osunsamni is presenting two fundamentally contradictory descriptions of S31: He’s claiming S31 is the equivalent of the CIA (it’s not), and he’s simultaneously claiming S31 is the equivalent of a wide-ranging unacknowledged deep state network. Both of these claims cannot be correct at the same time.
Hey Jai, yeah you hit on the head. It sounds like Osunamni is just throwing out examples of classified programs and organizations but gives two contradicting examples on how it compares to Section 31. The Legacy program is really fascinating and literally sounds like something out of The X Files. That does sound much closer to what Section 31 is supposed to be and yet he contradicts it with the CIA analogy.
So yeah, which is it? And it really does bug me that he doesn’t even acknowledge Starfleet Intelligence at all. Now I’m wondering if it’s even been referenced on the modern shows? I can’t think of one off the top of my head but Section 31 has basically been mentioned or shown on most of them. So Starfleet Intelligence may not even be part of these new shows at all.
Hopefully the movie itself will make it clear it is a deep state organization because Discovery did it no favors in that respect.
Off topic, but very very excited for the UAP hearing this week. I’m going to try and watch it live.
This interview makes me more optimistic than the trailer or any other promo materials. This guy sounds like he gets it, so I hope that translates well into the movie.
That’s the first I’ve heard that Section 31 takes place during the lost era. Hopefully they make good use of the setting, because that’s something we’ve wanted for a while.
Section 31 has been around since the 22nd century. They were also on Enterprise and Discovery.
I’m really hoping to be pleasantly surprised, but this looks terrible. It looks like John Wick in space but not as cool. And there’s no reason for Ash not to be in it. I think they’re all just pandering to an oscar winner to try to attract an audience.
Wouldn’t you want to work with an academy award winner who is well regarded and popular? From a business sense, it makes perfect sense to want to capitalise on that goodwill.
…great… the director doesn’t even understand the CIA or the Pentagon and certainly doesn’t understand Section 31 if he’s comparing it as such. This is going to be sooo good :\
+1
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+74656
By definition, if the director doesn’t understand the CIA or the Pentagon, then comparing Section 31 to the CIA and the Pentagon can’t be evidence that he doesn’t understand Section 31.
The correlation he attempted with the CIA sounded like a real stretch. I’m still not sure how this will net out.
But those were very good questions out to him!
“CIA of Starfleet in Section 31”
It is super annoying how much the Kurtzman people do not get the original concept of Section 31. They were never official or a part of Starfleet. It was a small group of individuals, literally a handful, who had pull in very high places and took the well being of Earth/later the Federation, into their own hands. They were more a small, highly connected secret fraternity.
Yeah, this is my one big hang-up. All this time they’ve been conflating the concepts of “shadow organization” with “legitimate organization that also does bad things”. I’m going in with an open mind, but my hope is that one day we see S31 change from one into the other, even if it’s an officially-disbanded-but-not-really-disbanded sort of thing to make it make sense. Anything to at least acknowledge that these are two different ideas fundamentally.
Another way to put it: I’m not on its own merit against this movie being what it is, and I can appreciate it for what it is. I just hope they somehow eventually acknowledge that how we’re handling it now isn’t what it was, because until then the whole thing just kind of comes across as a colossal misunderstanding of the concept. But like I said… I’m going to try and have an open mind, re: Kirk in TWOK.
““I believe in humanity. We are an incredible species. We’re still just a child creature, we’re still being nasty to each other. And all children go through those phases. We’re growing up, we’re moving into adolescence now. When we grow up – man, we’re going to be something!”
Gene Roddenberry
In Gene’s Star Trek, mankind has grown up. It’s the reason that Star Trek used to be so hard to write for. Because the threat has to come from without and not from within, Picard’s crew cant be ‘nasty’ to each other because they are more evolved. It’s why DS9 was so careful to portray S31 as outside Starfleeet, a shadowy cabal that is almost mythical and why DS9 had so many aliens in it – so they didn’t eviscerate Roddenberry’s ideals. In this new movie, and in DSC, they ask us to root for a genocidal leader who eats people and who never expressed remorse. I cannot imagine any of the other Star Trek shows using phrases like “Bad Bitch” and “Kick ass”.
I cannot imagine any of the other Star Trek shows using phrases like “Bad Bitch” and “Kick ass”.
Can’t you? I’m sure if Lower Decks got another season, Mariner would have an Empress G poster hanging in her locker
I don’t disagree, but Star Trek productions have always reflected the times they were made in. Unfortunately, I feel as though we are living in a very low-quality time culturally and the current creatives are a product of that.
Now excuse me while I go scream at the kids to get off my lawn.
rewatch the OS and you see bureaucrats and deskbound pen pushers were the representatives of the federation, always getting in the way of kirk and co when they tried to do the right thing.
being an active officer aboard a starship seem to give many a real perspective on life in the alpha quadrant
gene was wise to show faults in the idea of a ‘paradise’, even up to the TNG era.
the threat a lot of the time came from the Fed/starfleet itself.
I’m glad he understands that Star Trek doesn’t belong to us, and he doesn’t have carte blanche to do anything he wants with it. I wish other showrunners would have understood this as well…
I’m also looking forward to seeing Rachel Garrett. The character was great in Yesterday’s Enterprise. She really represented well the courage and dedication one expects from a Starfleet Captain. Hopefully this new iteration of the character will do the same.
Georgiou on her own, without Burnham or others to play off of, worries me. I have to trust that Michelle Yeoh and the creative team manage her well. If she just comes off as “I’m too cool and clever for the rest of you” I fear she’ll fall flat, especially with viewers unfamiliar with Discovery.
Speaking of Discovery, I’m curious to see whether they reference her departure from the 32nd century (via the Guardian of Forever) – especially given the time that has passed for viewers since that happened. The related question is when this takes place in relation to the end of Disco’s second season. I’ll be disappointed if there’s no mention of her temporal journey, but also know they can’t spend too much time on it (so to speak.)
I’m looking forward to seeing Rachel Garrett in action – maybe she’ll be the one to keep Georgiou more grounded. The other characters thus far are just… there.
In what way are you looking forward to seeing Rachel Garrett in action but not the others? Is it because she’s a legacy character and the others are new?
He either doesn’t understand what the CIA is or what Section 31 is. Probably both.
Even casual Star Trek fans know this. It doesn’t make sense how he does not. This does not bode well for the movie.
Another fraud director is hollywood posing as a fan. Alex Kurtzman has no respect for the writers who crafted the Trek Universe. Section 31 is not the CIA of the Federation. I wish that Trekmovie would stop being cheerleaders and offer some real critical analysis of the Kurtzman era. Section 31 is going to be the begining of the end of the Kutzman era.
I hope so too!
The previous Podcast crew of Kayla, Brian, and Matt were far more critical of Kurtzman-era shows. I wonder if that is one of the reasons why we never hear from that crew anymore and only Tony and Laurie? Nothing against Tony and Laurie and I do enjoy them, but they are not as critical as Kayla et al.
The only thing I liked from the Kurtzman era was Picard Season 3 (The first two seasons were awful) and because I am a fanboy of the original series, SNW. That is it. However, after what I saw at comic-con and that ridiculous statement that you need to “add more black people to Trek”, I was like yeah it is time for this dude to go. Star Trek has a long history of having Black Actors in key roles.
Letting Kevin Feige grab Matalas and take him to Marvel was insane. Allowing Tawney Newsome to develop a comedy is a really bad idea.
Star Wars has spent over a decade failing at making Star Wars which is the easiest layup in pop culture.It is now failing and the fans no longer care. When Bryan Fuller left Discovery look at what the show devolved into. Paramount is broke. Star Trek is a great IP and when handeld properly, it could be the crown jewel of the company but they need to give it to someone who is an actual fan. Someone who loves it. I don’t feel that from Kurtzman
The Kelvin Crew has not been seen in almost a decade and the clock is ticking. Lets be honest and admit that no one cared about Discovery when it went off the air and no one is going to care about this Academy show. They are missing opportunities to be great because their Hurbis is in the way. Great storytelling should be the standard. That is it.
I agree with this so much.
Section 31 is not the CIA. Section 31 was not known by everyone in Starfleet. Are you serious right now? I hate when they hire these folks that claim they watched “Trek” growing up. If they did, they would have never made made this film. I guess when time “reinserted” itself, it also changed Section 31.
When was Section 31 a part of the Temporal Cold War storylines? What is he talking about? They were not involved. This is the kind of stuff I am talking about. These Directors are posing as fans of franchises they know nothing about. So you mean to tell me that you couldn’t reach out to Ira Steven Behr? SMH. This is silly. Just silly.
A fun little romp with the Gestapo.
Either Kurtzman and his team don’t get Section 31 or they are changing it to fit their agenda.
Section 31 is not Starfleet Intelligence. It’s an organisation that exists in the shadows, is not official and exists to do the things the Federation is unwilling to do to maintain paradise.
I don’t understand why they keep getting it wrong. It’s not a James Bond type film.
but this film is trying to riff on the ‘spy fi’ era that bond came from in the 60s.
not every s31 agent has to be a ‘man in black’ in the shadows.