Today is the 30th anniversary of the film Star Trek Generations, which marked the final film appearance of William Shatner as James T. Kirk, who sacrificed his life to save the day on Veridian III. Now you can see Kirk return in a short film in honor of the Generations anniversary.
Kirk returns
The film released today by the Roddenberry Archive and their technology partner OTOY (in cooperation with Paramount) is titled Unification. It launched on The Archive web portal (at roddenberry.x.io) and via the Apple Vision Pro app. This is the fourth from the Archive’s “765874” series of films tied into Star Trek using a combination of live-action footage and computer generated imagery. William Shatner and other Star Trek vets were involved in the making of this new film. Check out what they describe as a “mind-bending Star Trek experience celebrating the 30th anniversary of Star Trek Generations.”
UPDATE: Producer breaks down “Unification”
Check out our follow-up article where we talk to executive producer Jules Urbach, who gives us a shot-by-shot breakdown of the short film.
Behind the scenes
The characters from Star Trek history were brought to life through live-action performances, including Sam Witwer as young James T. Kirk and Lawrence Selleck as Spock. According to OTOY, they were filmed in costume, performing as Kirk and Spock on set, aided by “both physical and digital prosthetics resulting in period-accurate portrayals matching the appearance of the characters as they originally appeared in TV and film at the time.” William Shatner and Susan Bay Nimoy, widow of the late Leonard Nimoy, served as executive producers on the production.
The 8-minute video connects multiple decades of Star Trek lore, with nods to Robin Curtis’ portrayal of Saavik (1984’s Star Trek III: The Search for Spock), J.M. Colt (1964’s “The Cage”) played by actress Mahé Thaissa and Gary Mitchell, Kirk’s friend from the second Star Trek pilot episode, “Where No Man Has Gone Before” performed by original actor Gary Lockwood. The short also incorporates the character Yor (Gordon Tarpley) from Star Trek: Discovery who crossed from the Kelvin Universe to the Prime Universe.
According to OTOY, Shatner worked with them to “fine-tune the technical and creative direction required to bring his interpretation of Kirk back to live action.” This included “the addition of his voice to narrate a key moment in the experience.” The film was previewed on Sunday with Shatner at the Star Trek Tour in Ticonderoga, New York. Describing the film, Shatner said it “takes years off of your face, so that in a film you can look 10, 20, 30, 50 years younger than you are.”
Above, left to Right: Robin Curtis (Saavik), Executive Producer, William Shatner (Kirk), Lawrence Selleck (Spock) and Mahé Thaissa (J.M. Colt) at the premiere of “Unification” (OTOY)
765874: Unification was directed by Award Winning Spanish filmmaker Carlos Baena, from a story by Jules Urbach and features original music by Academy award-winning Star Trek composer Michael Giacchino. Production design was provided by Star Trek: Picard production designer David Blass.
Emmy award-winning visual effects supervisor Mark Spatny led OTOY’s team of artists and animators, who combined digital and physical prosthetics with live-action location photography, virtual production, and CG set extensions. According to OTOY, each major scene in “Unification” was filmed twice, “ensuring coverage to create video and spatial content mastered for Apple Vision Pro.” These locations were scanned in and merged with CG set extensions to become part of The Archive’s growing library of 3D worlds and locations. The visual effects in Unification were created using OTOY’s “Octane” rendering software and the “Render Network” decentralized GPU rendering platform. Characters and props were digitized using OTOY’s Academy-Award winning “LightStage” scanning system.
Behind the scenes collage from the making of “Unification” (OTOY)
765874: Unification is accompanied by new interactive sets, props, and worlds from Star Trek Generations on The Roddenberry Archive. The full experience with all related extra content is available in its entirety in Digital Cinema 4k HDR and spatial video, “exclusively mastered at peak fidelity” for viewing on Apple Vision Pro.
For more about the making of Unification check out the blog post at otoy.com.
More short films from Roddenberry Archive
Over the last couple of years the Roddenberry Archive has released three previous short films starting with “765874” featuring Mahé Thaissa as Yeoman Colt from “The Cage.” 765874 is Colt’s Starfleet serial number from the comics.
The second film titled 765874 – Memory Wall features Thaissa as Colt again with Lawrence Selleck as Spock.
And last year they released 765874 – Regeneration with Thaissa and Selleck returning. The film also featured a return to Veridian III and the saucer of the USS Enterprise-D being recovered.
Read more articles about The Roddenberry Archive at TrekMovie.com
Fascinating.
see what happens when you don’t include Kurtzman and Co. with Star Trek?! we need more thoughtful trek and less action trek
Without action, the second Trek pilot wouldn’t even have been, SOLD!
With respect, he didn’t say without. He said less.
I’ve probably watched WHERE NO MAN another 3 or 4 times since DSC started airing, whereas I haven’t been able to rewatch a single DSC, so the quality of the action is a factor.
Sadly (for me) I have to agree. I bought the full DVD set of DSC, but have yet to watch a single episode. Yet THE CAGE and WHERE NO MAN can stand multiple repeated viewings by me. But I must admit I always still cringle at the crumpled “rocks” in both.
At least LIS had better rock formations and fake boulders on their exterior sets…
Plus that outdoor shot of J2 coming in to crash is better than just about anything in the 60s TV shows spaceshipwise.
I promise there’s a way to talk about what you like without shitting on what you don’t. It exists, I swear.
Hard agree. The way some people on this forum are obsessed with complaining about new Star Trek shows in articles that don’t have anything to do with them is disturbing.
Fans across a variety of fandoms tend to define themselves over what they dislike as opposed to what they like nowadays, and it’s an increasingly-obnoxious form of cynicism.
It’s embarrassing. I’m convinced it comes from some manner of insecurity. They’re not complete unless someone’s paying attention to them, and since positivity – or, at least, acceptance – is ridiculed more than accepted, they lean into toxic negativity instead. I cannot imagine choosing to live that way. There is so much – and so many – in our world ready and willing to generate misery, and rather than combat it, they’d rather wallow in it and create more.
I guess it depends on what you mean.. if you mean people just spewing vitriol, I agree… if it comes with a cogent argument amongst a lot of colorful metaphors, I’m ok with it, and I’ll probably participate in such behavior.. particularly if what they’ve done with their creative output pisses me off. I think I do a pretty good job of keeping it contained.
Hear hear!
Sorry, but the only thing that occurred to me on this short was a line from Monty Python….. I’m not dead yet!
This short video is better than anything Kurtzman has produced.
I had the same thought.
Here, too.
Nah.
Honestly… I did not have an emotional reaction to it. I never fully bought that these were the characters we know and love.. I just knew it wasn’t really them.. Kirk in particular. With that being said, this has more heart and a beautiful story that we haven’t seen since before 2009’s Star Trek film, with the exception of Picard S3. I have enormous appreciation for what they accomplished and did. It’s so simply told, and raises some really cool questions. The sense of wonder if leaves you with is pretty fantastic as well. It’s lovely, even if it didn’t quite hit for me.
My cat’s hairballs have produced better commentary than yours.
There WAS a character that they tossed in that was introduced into Season 3 of Discovery, Yor, the Betelgeusian from the Kelvin Timeline. The one that they said traveled to the 32nd century and had to be euthanized because of that condition that afflicted Mirror Georgiou.
Because of that, you might be a little wary of how canon it is if you’re not a fan of anything Discovery introduced at all.
Yeah I don’t think that was necessary.
fans like you have destroyed trek
Fans calling out disturbing behaviour has destroy the franchise? Oh please. Don’t be so ridiculous. Grow up.
Disgruntled Star Wars fans would like a word.
“disturbing behaviour”
Man. Talk about needing to not be ridiculous.
You’ll excuse me if I don’t take offence to the words of a keyboard warrior like yourself.
So I take it you’re not a fan of TWOK or First Contact, or TOS’ The Doomsday Machine, TNG’s BoBW, DS9’s entire Dominion War, VOY’s Year of Hell, ENT’s 3-parter Babel One, Unity and The Aenar (just to name a few of the numerous action packed Trek episodes and movies)?
See what happens when people don’t bother to look into who is behind the production and realize that this short ties into Kurtzman’s TREK and the Kelvin films as well. But you don’t watch the new shows for yourself and learn that there is plenty of thoughtful and non-action TREK. But you just sample it and decide you hate it.
I think it very telling that Kurtzman & Secret Hideout had nothing to do with these.
They are actually GOOD.
It’s very telling you don’t know what you’re talking about since they tie into the continuity of Kurtzman TREK as well as the Kelvin films, as well as having production staff from both.
Thank you for showing that you don’t understand what was said. I’m not going to spoon feed you. Maybe you can figure out the massive flaw in your reasoning….
I’m betting no.
Genial
A+ !
Ok, this was much much greater than I expected. Brought a tear to my eye. I needed this. I’m not over what happened to my dad. We buried him during COVID and he never got a memorial and still doesn’t have a stone. A friend of mine killed himself a few weeks ago too and another friend is dying of a terminal illness. I’ve been working away from my family at a new job, and, yeah, I’m very disappointed with the tenor and character of our country and all the just blatant hate I’ve seen. Things have seemed hopeless.
This short was just beautiful in all ways. It was hopeful and that’s something that Star Trek should always be. We need that now and we need, all the good people here, to come together and embrace instead of hating each other for our differences and differences of opinion. Talk, give each other some space and consideration, be kind, and let’s all work to together to make that better world for our kids and future generations. Volunteer to do good things with people from all walks of life. That’s what I’m going to try to do with my wife and kids.
These three guys, Kirk, Spock, Bones, they were and still are my fictional heroes (the only thing missing here was Bones seeing Kirk off too), because they epitomized all of that, even if they got angry at each other and had fights (which didn’t occur much if at all in TNG), they came back together and were team because they were, ultimately, brothers. I just love it, and this short, not that I understand exactly what happened (kind of like the end of 2001 I guess0, just sells that message.
Also, I love it because it looks like Star Trek possibly got religious? Was Kirk in heaven or the Nexus? Still not clear if he came back as spirit or if he was corporeal. I don’t know if it matters, if the intent is just to let viewers draw their own conclusions. I’ll pick Heaven. And what’s with Mitchell and all that Memory Wall stuff and Yeoman Colt?
If Kirk is indeed back in the Kelvin timeline, well, then, here’s the start for the final Abrams movie. I would think, after seeing the recent Indiana Jones film, and this, that Shatner can, in a way, come back as Kirk (he was deaged once before for that commercial and now here). Nimoy’s Spock has passed and if this is Prime Kirk back, well, you want to make up for Generations, somehow, someway, incorporate Shatner in the final Abrams film IN A GOOD WAY.
Hope everyone has a good day.
Very thoughtful post, Rocketscientist. I’ve experienced quite a bit of personal loss over the past couple of years myself, and this video actually felt like a sort of balm for me, too. Be well.
You too, Danpaine. We all need each other to lean on. Good people don’t forget that. They have each other’s backs (and I no longer have that now that my dad is gone).
Now could someone tell me how all the elements in these films connect to what we see here at the end?
Was there some kind of information passed to the past to Gary Mitchell so that he could resurrect his buddy Kirk after GEN to be at Spock Prime’s side at the end of his life?
Were Colt and Spock Prime the conduit, with some memory wall or whatever it was, to pass information to Mitchell in the past?
What does the ring Enterprise in the ice have to do with this? Or that weird tower structure with the eye shaped hole. How is Colt moving between these different points in time and space? Is she Mitchell’s agent?
Yeah, the connection between these is very unclear.
I hope you have a good day too. I hope you feel better.
Gary Mitchell is basically a watcher.. he senses these things from wherever he is. The implication I get is that he is benevolent now. He knows Spock is dying, and puts things in to motion to get Kirk to him. From here, I have two possibilities 1.) He removes Kirk’s echo from the Nexus (remember, there is some version or copy of him that will always be in there) and sends him to that lush planet to get him to the Betelguesian, who is able to send Kirk to Spock’s death bed. Whether it is Kirk himself, or just some manifestation with his consciousness may be the question. or 2.) The Betelguesian is using the Nexus to move between universes, and uses it to get Kirk to Spock. (insert collaboration with Gary Mitchell if you want) Some variation of these things are what makes it happen. Maybe the simplest way to look at is, Events are set in motion to get Kirk to Spock so they can be together when Spock dies. Whether you believe Kirk was taken to the Kelvinverse, whether Spock was brought to the Nexus.. is all up for the viewer to decide, but and I don’t know which version I like better.
The other thought I have is that perhaps they use his DNA to make a androidish gollum, similar to what they did with Picard, and then he is sent to where Saavik is, and on to the Kelvinverse to say goodbye to Spock, all with the help of the Betelguesian, who has found how to move between universes. So many cool possibilities.
Again, no indication of the Golem tech. No Dr. Soong, so that doesn’t work for me.
I’m left with that weird alien, Mitchell, and Colt? Those are the players/pieces along with the weird tower and the “Memory Wall” of the Ring Enterprise (always loved that design and they should’ve used it for Enterprise).
The weird alien was called a ‘time soldier’ from another timeline and active in the temporal wars.. this was in ST DSC. It was said he came ‘across’ the Kelvin Universe, so that inference is that he had the ability to get Kirk to the Kelvinverse somehow. So now a little bit of backstory is made really cool. As for the Golem tech, it’s not necessarily a story that I prefer, but I said it simply because they’re clearly showing the use of his body using the same graphics from PIC S3, and somehow that leads to his resurrection.. whether literally (via Gary Mitchell) or through the Golem technology. Also, I thought the people that Saavik was with reminded me of the people at the end of PIC S1 on that planet with Dr. Soong, so I just thought it could be a possibility. That they wanted to get him to the Kelvinverse to be with Spock when he died, but also give this new version of Kirk a finite life similar to Picard, since he couldn’t return or something. So the promise of him not dying alone could be fulfilled.
“Gary Mitchell is basically a watcher.. he senses these things from wherever he is. “
Ok, but Gary Mitchell also died. Kirk killed him. So when does this thing with Mitchell take place? Before his death? After? Well, if he’s dead, he can’t be in the universe to do anything, right?
“The implication I get is that he is benevolent now. He knows Spock is dying, and puts things in to motion to get Kirk to him.”
I’m with you there. So, again, is Colt Mitchell’s agent? What’s the mindmeld with Spock (or another vulcan?) about.
“From here, I have two possibilities 1.) He removes Kirk’s echo from the Nexus (remember, there is some version or copy of him that will always be in there) and sends him to that lush planet to get him to the Betelguesian, who is able to send Kirk to Spock’s death bed. Whether it is Kirk himself, or just some manifestation with his consciousness may be the question. or 2.) The Betelguesian is using the Nexus to move between universes, and uses it to get Kirk to Spock. (insert collaboration with Gary Mitchell if you want)”
I’m not familiar with Belelguesians or their capabilities.
“And I’m not sure that was Kirk in the Nexus. Could Mitchell’s abilities allow him to actually tap into the hereafter? I dunno.”
“Some variation of these things are what makes it happen. Maybe the simplest way to look at is, Events are set in motion to get Kirk to Spock so they can be together when Spock dies.”
Yeah, that’s it, but, again, what is the exact track? Is there one? Is there one and there is also stuff for obfuscation? Is it all supposed to be just suggestive with elements to suggest different “possibilities?” Maybe that’s all the film makers want. Something that has multiple interpretations/suggestions and no clear throughline at all.
” Whether you believe Kirk was taken to the Kelvinverse, whether Spock was brought to the Nexus.. is all up for the viewer to decide, but and I don’t know which version I like better.”
Looks to me that Kirk was brought to the Kelvinverse. Not sure whether that was him corporally or just spiritually though.
We didn’t see any shots of the nexus, did we? I’m on the side that that indicates that the Nexus is off the table in this story.
We have Mitchell, Colt in different times and places, and Spock. Mitchell shows up at the end, and he was extremely powerful. Colt seems to be the one pulling this together, acting as an agent, in some way, to Mitchell (who should be dead).
I need to watch this all again and make notes and try to figure some sort of theory out on what the heck is happening here.
Lots to respond to there, and not sure I want to try to confirm or refute anyone’s thinking, I just wanted to present some ideas I have about what it could be. I’m not making an argument for or against anything.. the overarching thing I can say is that enough is left vague, that you can pretty much take it however you want. I have no doubt the creatives have a path and intention they followed, but I don’t think it’s required that you, I, or anyone else have to understand every nuance and decision they made.. there is room for interpretation. Nexus, Robot Golem, afterlife… etc… it’s all up to you. I hope they don’t explain too much behind it, although if they do more story content that unfurls what’s going on, I’m ok with that. Sometimes I think Trek tries to explain too much, and I like that it give you clues and leaves some things open. More like this, please.
Can we get a real thing with Shatner returning as Kirk in a Project Phoenix story? He can provide the dialogue and let CGI do the rest.
I realize this may sound like heresy to some but I think what I’d like out of a Project Phoenix story is something where Shatner returns as Kirk and, due to the deus ex of the S31 technology, his age fluctuates through the episode, from Generations to TOS to present day Shatner — the resurrection is unstable, which helps with the budget since you can have Shatner in his 90s — and Shatner gets to do something that provides closure.
… and essentially does a Doctor Who regeneration into Paul Wesley, who can pick up with new 25th century stories.
I love the CGI. Ultimately, as long as there is a stable Kirk, it’s fine. Just give him a purpose and a happy ending where he is alive. Maybe Section 31 can get Nimoy Spock back before his death too.
That’s an interesting idea, Patrick. Good thinking!
Well the thing is, no matter how incredible the CGI looks here, it always immediately falls apart when they make them talk (good example is with the latest Indiana Jones where they de-aged Harrison Ford). There’s a reason why the characters don’t speak on screen in this Trek one.
CGI and AI can only go so far at this point. See Brent Spiner. As humans age their voice and facial expressions change. Until AI takes over and we all are slaves to our new AI overlords, we will still see somewhat of a uncanny valley with these effects.
Sad this couldn’t have been longer but with fan fiction stories all we get is 15mins per episode. Having said that it was surprisingly very moving and well done! I do like the references to the other movies, comics etc…really was a unification for lots of things!
Per the end credits this was officially licensed, so I don’t think the fan film guidelines came into it.
Frankly, if the guidelines did come into it OTOY wouldn’t have been allowed to use Shatner and many other professionals who contributed, since that’s forbidden by the same guidelines.
Fair enough maybe budget concerns were more important. I just wish the teasers had been incorporated into the story more. But what we got was quite good all things considered.
Yeah, this is CANON.
Yep, this is canon.
Is it definitely? I hope so.
I mean, the thing is, Paramount also licenses out to IDW for comics and pocketbooks for novels and the like. Those stories aren’t considered canonical. Future live action productions are free and have run over their events. In fact, IIRC, the pocketbooks ST novels ended their universe recently because of that.
So, I don’t know if this is canon unless Paramount explicitly says it is and, better yet, if the events are actually incorporated in a ST production. I hope they will be. It’d be smart, imo, for Paramount to jump on this and get a new ST screenplay with the ST 2009 characters and Kirk Prime in it too. Go out with a bang, both Shatner and the Abrams characters.
I’d say the expense of the digital effects had more of an effect on the length than anything. These are basically silent films, and it doesn’t feel like it needs to be longer than it is. Feels right, IMO.
I wished they had dialogue Shatner can still speak and there was certainly enough Nimoy for him to at least say “Jim” at the end.
I dunno, I think it was more emotional being silent. I don’t think any spoken words could have conveyed the same sentiment.
I think they let the 15 minute rule go. There’s several new fan films now that are longer.
Phenomenal. Now just do something big for the next movie. Should have been out for the 60th Anniversary but just do it. Get William Shatner to do it. Mind boggling he hasn’t been asked back already
If this short is canon, and there is actually an in-universe explanation that can be incorporated for it, then it looks like, if Kirk wasn’t there just in spirit, that he’s alive again in the Abrams timeline. Spock Prime has left and Kirk Prime returns in this case. And, if that’s the case, this just looks to me like a no-brainer step off to the final Abrams film. They should jump on this asap, though. I love William Shatner, but the clock is ticking.
They weren’t able to get Nimoy in Star Trek Beyond because he got too sick with COPS. He was alive and they wanted him in the film, but, IIRC he had to bow out. I think he died before or during shooting and I think he may have been to sick to even film anything that they could use later.
I think Bob Orci planned on including Nimoy and Shatner. Then Paramount changed their mind on his script and decided to do what came out as Beyond. Nimoy was ill as you stated. They really should get Shatner ASAP I agree.
LM passed away between the writing of STB and filming starting (around three months before filming started)
Thanks for confirming that, PhantomPhan. It’s a shame that Nimoy couldn’t hang on, but I give credit to Simon Pegg and Doug Jung for giving the Spock Prime character a death that directly affected Spock Kelvin. They incorporated Nimoy’s death very well into the film.
I wish they’d used Nimoy more in the second Abrams film, actually, instead of just for that cameo. Just a lost opportunity, but I get it. It would increase the film’s budget and take time away from their new cast.
That’s never going to happen. Besides the fact Shatner will probably still demand a lot of money Paramount doesn’t seem remotely interested in bringing him back. They literally had the chance for the 50th and he was in Orci’s script along with Nimoy before they fired him and scrapped the script made that clear.
And if they were serious about doing something like that it would’ve been for the 60th and now that’s obvious there won’t be a movie for that either.
There’s still that Origin movie in the works, despite what people might think of it, it could very well be done & if they announce casting then there’s a for sure chance it’ll proceed.
I have little to no interest in that origin movie. That doesn’t do a thing for me. If other people are excited about it, great.
Yeah true. And I’m not saying it won’t happen (but I’m not saying it will either lol), I was mostly talking about it opening by the 60th. I mean 2025 is basically here and there is still no real movement on it. At the very least, there’s no way it will be out by summer of 2026 and would probably be slaughtered anyway because there are so many big hitters coming in that period. At the most realistic it can still happen by the winter of 2026 (and the next Star Wars that was supposed to come out that time has also been delayed…again) so I guess it’s possible. Plausible, unlikely IMO.
That is the problem, They are not serious about it. They do not want Shatner or to pay him either as you stated. Perhaps Paramount and or Kurzman can see this and recognize the potential for something special for the 60th anniversary. Highly unlikely.
They had literally 30 years now to bring him back in some way. And I hate to sound morbid but Paramount knows the guy was getting older and with zero interest to bring him back before he literally hit 90 years old kind of tells you they moved on long ago.
It still doesn’t mean he can’t be brought back but it’s kind of surreal now that there have been more years of him not officially playing Kirk anymore vs when he did from TOS-GENS which was 27 years. That’s how much time has passed.
It is clear they did not want him back. Just a missed opportunity on their part. Just looking at the reactions from this short it appears bringing Shatner back would have been special.
Yeah, I don’t expect this to happen either, as much as I would love to see it. I think it would make the fans very happy, but these execs have made some very stupid calls with the ST franchise over the years.
Shatner was never signed for the 2009 film and therefore never fired. Bob Orci said the scene had been written, Shatner declined after reading it, the scene was cut. This is not uncommon. Early drafts of Generations featured the entire original cast but only Shatner, James Doohan and Walter Koenig agreed to return (and according to Ron Moore, it took some convincing for Shatner since they were going to kill him off). You write a scene knowing that it may not pan out. A writer’s strike probably didn’t help.
Back in my Sci Fi Channel days the original draft for the final episode of season one had Baltar encountering a being smoking a cigar.. When Baltar asks the being who he is, he says, “I’m God!” The script indicates that God is none other than – – Dirk Benedict. It didn’t pan out for a variety of reasons but Dirk Benedict appearing on the show was on their wish list.
Shatner isn’t chasing a paycheck anymore. If he was, he never would have done this short.
Never heard that one about Benedict, but is it possible this was circulated as misdirection for internet spies rather than as an actual viable storypoint?
I feel I’m in a good position to ask this, because the hints of song that certain characters are hearing bits of during a later season of nuBSG was something I guessed wildly wrong on … I thought it would be revealed to be that goofy disco song from original BSG’s pilot, when the two-mouthed singers croon, ‘it’s love love love, love love love love.’ So I appreciate the Benedict notion, even though I think it sounds pretty silly.
No; I was a regular reader of Ron Moore’s blog at the time and that story is absolutely true. The only reason it didn’t happen was due to pushback by the suits at Skiffy who thought it was a bit much at that point in the show’s narrative, to which Moore and David Eick eventually agreed. BSG is actually replete with moments where the writers essentially just threw stuff at the wall to see what would stick, and the amazing thing is that they were good enough that they *almost* got away with it.
That suit was my boss! Heck of a nice guy and his instincts were usually spot-on. Once a show was established (and a hit), they pretty much left the show alone unless something really didn’t seem to be working or needed some clarity.
Interesting! It’s been a long time, obviously, but I remember vividly how enjoyable it was to see a truly great series unfold each week and then read straight from the showrunner how that particular episode came together for better and, occasionally, worse. (Proud as he was of the work, Moore could be unsparingly critical and took responsibility when the show didn’t come together, as in the black market episode.) Though in my view BSG didn’t quite stick the landing, when I met him at Michael Piller’s funeral I felt privileged to be able to shake his hand and tell him what a great job I thought he’d done.
That ending would have radically altered the the direction of the show. It only lasted one draft. Dirk Benedict was a bit cranky about the show in interviews so getting him on in any capacity seemed like a long shot.
When the script dropped with the final five hearing “All Along the Watchtower” it felt like another Dirk Benedict situation but, nope, they actually followed through.
“It’s love, love, love” would have been a deep cut and they probably could have pulled it off but it was always “All Along the Watchtower”.
No, I wasn’t talking about Shatner being fired, I was talking about Orci and was referring to the fact he said Shatner and Nimoy were supposed to be in the third movie for the 50th anniversary. Reading it back, I could’ve worded it better. But when that didn’t work out (for reasons we still don’t truly know) it was very clear that Paramount just had no interest or simply thought bringing those actors back was going to make a real difference in terms of the film’s reception.
Instead, we got Beyond, which I liked, but sadly its failure is probably why we still don’t have another movie nearly a decade later (as much as they keep telling us they are making another one).
Of course we have no clue what would’ve happened if Orci stayed on and did the movie he originally wanted, but I still had to think it would’ve garnered more interest than Beyond did which frankly just felt like just another Star Trek movie and partly why it failed. But Shatner and Nimoy’s characters reuniting again for the first time in 25 years seem like it would’ve been a big deal…at least for old fans.
Wow interesting bit about BSG. That would’ve been crazy but understandable why they didn’t go with it lol.
I would love to see what Orci had written for that third film, especially since Paramount brass said it was a bit TOO Star Trek. I enjoyed Beyond but Paramount dragged their feet getting it in front of cameras, did a terrible job promoting it and screwed Bob Orci. And, yeah, Shatner and Nimoy along for one final ride would have sold itself.
Tiger2, still one of my favorites here.
Yeah agree with all of that. Orcis movie still could’ve been bad or lose some of the general audience if it’s too sci fi I guess but Beyond didn’t exactly pull them in either. But it’s just proof why it’s so hard to make these movies because they are constantly trying to serve two audiences while trying to compete with Marvel.
And you’re one of my favorites as well. It’s always fun to talk to you dude! 🙂
Sadly I agree. But it would be nice if this was officially endorced by Paramount. I know Trek doesn’t really believe in the idea of “Heaven” but if this was a slight retcon to be a return to the Nexus, where you could, “go anywhere, any time” then maybe Kirk was in the Nexus where he saw Saavik and then left to the Kelvin universe where he saw Spock as he died. Leave it open ended from there.
ugh no thanks, im a huge trek addict but we don’t need a 90 yr old kirk. its over, let it be. ST:Picard was god awful. SNWorlds is the only good trek right now.
Classy, love it. Never thought we’d see a Star Trek Silent film.
The only LOL was I was wondering when Keir Dullea would show up!
Shatner could tell him, my god, I’m full of stars!
Kinda funny that that line originally came from Clarke’s novel version (I won’t call it a ‘novelization’) of 2001, as opposed to the film itself, yet is probably best known from appearing in the prologue to Hyams’ sequel.
They use it more than once in 2010, as I remember Floyd listening to the recording while aboard Leonov, too. Have we ever talked 2010? I still have a huge problem with the way sequel Floyd is in total contradiction to 2001 Floyd about HAL’s knowledge of the monolith, and always assume we’re supposed to think he is just a deceitful political bastard (borne out by the way he tries to set up Chandra.)
I think we were pretty much in agreement that it’s a decent-enough SF potboiler if you could take it on its own terms — which of course you can’t, because Kubrick’s film casts its shadow over everything. Even Harlan Ellison had some kind things to say about Peter Hyams’ direction after roasting him alive for OUTLAND, pinning most of the story issues on Clarke’s sequel novel, which like Asimov’s Foundation follow-ups probably should never have been written.
The 2010 novel was one of his worst ever, down there with IMPERIAL EARTH, though 3001 has to take the pissed-on cake for alltime dud. I think FOUNDATION’S EDGE or whatever was the 4th Asimov in the series was the end of all that for me … didn’t he try to do a grand unified thing linking all his robot stuff with the Foundation ‘verse? Seemed a big step too far for me.
When I gave it some more thought after the laserdisc came out, I decided 2010 the film could have benefited from a markedly different approach, one that I guess now I could call the DEEP IMPACT perspective, where the mission, while massively important, doesn’t take up the bulk of the story, which could deal more with the buildup of the earthbound crisis. Grace notes of Kubrick could be hearing The Blue Danube play as US and USSR politicos actually start to duke it out on the UN floor, and you could have had Floyd’s successor as the viewpoint character. The second sun end would literally play as deus ex machina to people down on Earth, but if you’d spent at least an hour of the story invested in them, it could have maybe worked in a less ponderous way.
Have said all that, I do still watch it alot, not always for the right reasons. Love the spacecraft exteriors, love to hoot at the silliness of all that smoke in the ship interiors, and love to hear that one russian say, ‘it was organic.’ Also, Balaban as Chandra — whose defense of inorganic life actually drew applause in the Silicon Valley theater where I saw it.
Heh! Good one. It gives off that vibe, no spoken words except for the Shatner quote from TWOK. All images, like a lot of 2001, especially the ending. People bought the book 2001 to find out what actually happened at the end.
I’d like something definitive here, but I’m kind of not expecting the film makers to do that. They might just want to leave it up to personal interpretation, which, I guess, is fine.
That was amazing! Magical and poignant!
It really was. My expectations were low (and me too, for that matter), and, my gosh, even if I don’t understand it, even if it’s not canonical (I think it should be), I got teary eyed.
What is more blessed than having your friends and family around you for your final goodbye?
Spock didn’t “die alone.”
I had unexpectedly emotional reaction to this and once I recovered I asked out loud,”How did they do this?”
Absolutely brilliant.
That was very nice and brought back happy memories and a tear to my eyes. Lost my wife a couple of months ago and this brought a big smile to my face loved seeing a young Captain Kirk
Deepest condolences, bob. Pretty amazing and special the way this short really touched a sentimental nerve with many of us. Very sorry for your loss.
bob, so sorry for your loss. May the Good Lord bless you and give you peace.
Sorry about your wife, Bob. Life is full of loss but also love. Hope you are well.
Okay, so… Who’s the Reman-looking individual at about 2:57?
That stumped me as well. No idea.
Is that the same guy from Discovery?
Yep, it’s Yor. https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Yor
It’s Yor, a character originating in the Kelvin timeline who was briefly glimpsed in Discovery season 3. Here’s what Memory Alpha has to say:
“Lieutenant Commander Yor was a 24th century Betelgeusian Federation Starfleet officer from an alternate reality created by a Romulan mining ship. Yor was also a time soldier who, in 2379, not only traveled forward in time to 3189, but across universes, arriving in the “prime” universe. Before the Terran emperor Philippa Georgiou time traveled to 3189 from 2258, Yor was the only individual known by the prime universe Federation to have traveled through both time and dimensions.”
Fascinating. There are story possibilities here. Mind you, you’ve got to imagine them since the film does no work to connect any dots. But the dots intrigue me.
My interpretation is that Yor, after travelling through time and space to reach the Prime universe, found a way to take Kirk with him back to the Kelvin timeline in order to reunite Kirk and Spock prior to Spock’s death.
“My interpretation is that Yor, after travelling through time and space to reach the Prime universe, found a way to take Kirk with him back to the Kelvin timeline in order to reunite Kirk and Spock prior to Spock’s death.”
Yes, this is my interpretation as well.
I’ll make a supercut of Regeneration and Unification, and I’ll put it on my Jellyfin server right after Generations in the chronological Star Trek playlist. 👍
Yor was euthanized, though.
Do we know if they granted the euthanasia? But he did eventually die. At any rate, this is inter-dimensional time travel, so Yor could still have taken Kirk to Spock Prime in the Kelvin timeline, from Yor’s point of view before his death in 3189.
If he could have one that, he could have gone back to his own time and place, no?
The whole point was that he was stuck, with no hope of going home.
“Theorizing that one could dimension hop within their own lifetime, Yor stepped into the quantum leap accelerator and vanished”.
Wait, wrong show…
For me it’s more of a mind thing, i.e. not physically going or taking someone else back, but moving there in the mind… and the short film seems to suggest that there is some kind of connection between individuals who have traveled dimensions: Kirk and Spock have, and Yor has too. So it seems to me that they can meet in this manner, and “travel” to each others’ minds across dimensions & time.
Or the people that made this didn’t care that much about Yor. They just used him as a McGuffin to accomplish the ending they wanted, which was to have Kirk travel from the Prime Universe to the Kelvin Universe to be with Spock when he died.
They had a finite amount of time to get from point A to point B and chose the quickest way possible, a native of the Kelvin timeline who travelled to the Prime reality.
It is unlikely Yor initially went from one to the other by, essentially, “clicking his heels together” the way it is depicted here. More likely than not he used a starship to do, same way that the natives of the Mirror Universe did with the I.S.S. Enterprise as depicted in the final season of Discovery.
The tragedy of Yor is that he was stuck in another timeline several hundred if not thousands of years after his own time, which was killing him the same way it did Georgiou.
Unlike her, who found a way back to the past (if not her own timeline) through the Guardian of Forever, he was stuck and died.
Using the Guardian here would have made far more sense than using Yor and even that would have still been wrong, heh.
Wesley Crusher may have been the more — logical choice.
I was thinking about the Guardian too. Good suggestions on both.
Thanks.
Glad there are folks around who can explain this stuff to me.
Yeah, but can anybody convincingly explain why a starship ever gets to leave dock sans torpedoes and tractor beams when its departure isn’t driven by an emergency?
Don’t know about that, but I always assumed that a starship’s weapons systems are automatically locked-out upon arrival in Earth orbit, and can only be unlocked upon departure or an emergency override by the admiralty. Call it the “Rubicon Protocol.”
That’s a notion that is particularly steal-worthy, I seriously dig it!
Actually, my interpretation is a little bit different with it.
This was Yor doing some kind of special mission, maybe for Kelvin Timeline Spock of the Kelvin 24th century. He went back in time & across universes to meet with Prime universe Kirk who got resurrected. Kirk is given the means to cross over into the Kelvin Timeline to see his old friend Spock, to enjoy one last sunset together, maybe on New Vulcan, before the latter passes away.
Another possible and slightly more metaphysical explanation is that this is something like a network linking inter-dimensional travelers on some neural/quantum level: Spock, Yor, Colt, and Kirk, who is linked due to his time in the Nexus, which makes him an inter- (or rather extra-) dimensional traveler too. In this explanation, Kirk wouldn’t be really there in the Kelvin timeline, but only in spirit at the time of Spock’s death, reaching out through this “network” at the very moment of his own death, connecting with Spock and also Yor. (Such a “network” could also explain Guinan’s powers in the alternate timeline of “Yesterday’s Enterprise”, because she had been in the Nexus, too. She would have had this kind of connection to the “real” Enterprise-D through Tasha, who became an inter-dimensional traveler too at the end of the episode. Picard, due to his time in the Nexus, could have had these kind of abilities, too, after Generations, but he has an artifical body now, so he might have lost the connection.)
He’s discussed in the article. His name is Yor and was seen as a holographic image in Discovery in the third season. He was a time soldier, part of The Temporal War from the Kelvin universe in the 24th century who crossed over into the Prime universe in the 32nd century.
Oh, cool, so there is a conventional story here. I thought it was mostly just an impressionistic piece. So Kirk is recovered during Regeneration (somehow?), then reunited with Spock.
I still see it as impressionistic.
Yeah… I had no idea whatsoever who that thing was as well. I found out reading about it. But not knowing had zero affect on this. Hell, I didn’t even recognize Robin Curtis!
It just felt like some kind of afterlife thing. And was a nice finale to the Kirk Spock relationship to me. Nothing else in it really mattered.
Wow, what a nice surprise on the 30th anniversary of the film. Flawed as GEN is, I still watch it annually. This short really hit me in all the right places – I think I smiled for the entire 8 minutes. ‘There are always possibilities…’ Indeed.
Agreed. A very nice surprise and a beautiful way to celebrate and bookend Generations for its anniversary.
GEN is kind of a bittersweet watch to me. I love it for being the last film with (Prime) Kirk and there are some touching moments with Picard’s ark as well.
The highlight is the team up with Kirk and Picard. I see reall chemistry there and, apparently Shatner and Stewart really enjoyed their time and picked up on the fun they were having with their characters’ interactions too. So that’s the best part of the movie, and when you see that, and the flawed way that Kirk was dispatched, it’s just disappointing. You feel that it should have been so much better. I didn’t have a problem with them killing Kirk, but it should have been done so much better with more time and the like. It’s a squandered opportunity and it looks like the ultimate blame comes with the stupid requirements that the Paramount execs or Rick Berman put on Moore and Braga. Braga and Moore have both said that they weren’t happy with their screenplay and that Leonard Nimoy, who was approached to direct, was right about the script being very flawed, but Berman, who was responsible, didn’t bring Nimoy onboard in time to work with Moore and Braga to make a better screenplay. So, we got what we got.
If I was Paramount, I’d jump all over this and incorporate Kirk’s resurrection (if that is indeed what this is), in the Abrams/Kelvin universe for the final film with the 2009 cast. They get a do-over with Shatner’s Kirk, there could be great resonance like there was with Nimoy in ST 2009 with Prime Kirk and the Abrams characters, especially Abrams’ Kirk, and a great way to say goodbye to ST 2009’s iteration of the characters. It would be bigger and better to incorporate Shatner.
Of course, I bet the chances of all that happening are close to 0. First, Abrams has specifically said he doesn’t like to pander too much to the fans, which is why Bob Orci’s really nice scene with a holographic birthday wish from Shatner’s Kirk was killed for Star Trek 2009. I think Abrams, as much as I like him, will not want to go near this film or use any of it (if there is indeed an actual story into what actually happens here). Second, I imagine there is some possible legal stuff regarding using this story idea or whatever as an element in the next ST feature with the 2009 cast (if it ever indeed gets made).
This team should do a full length TNG feature film!!! The crew is still around and hot as well as the Enterprise D!!!
In the group still taken on the bridge, Robin Curtis looks just sensational.
I watched part of the vid and noticed that the aspect that blows the illusion has changed. It is no longer the eyes — if you look at the eyes, you get lost in it just like a regular program. But the skin textures don’t seem to live on the faces, at least not consistently. I would have figured solving the eyes would be at least another decade away, but the skin problem, while not a constant, seems like it would be very fixable. Grudgingly quite impressed.
I guess I should check the credits to see if otoy is still partnered with the San Jose based holography company I had some correspondence with years back. I didn’t see any aspect that reflected what they were going for in the minute or so of this, guess I should go back for a deep dive, or at least finish it and watch the credits.
I’m very curious what roles Kevin Feige and Alex Ross played in this. (Both are thanked in the credits.)
Hey, I didn’t see that! I know Feige is big ST fan. Don’t know about Ross.
While I’m asking questions, I’m also curious who “Crusher” is, listed as played by John Daltorio.
That piqued my interest too. If you go through one of the articles, theres a tonne of pics from seemingly deleted scenes, but I still don’t see anyone who would go by “crusher”. https://home.otoy.com/unification/
Crusher is the man at the front of the group by the fountain when Kirk walks into the garden. He’s in a white dress uniform, so I wouldn’t think that would be Jack Crusher. I don’t know any other Crushers he could be though.
Why not an old Wesley Crusher? One possible explanation I came up with could be that the minds of inter-dimensional travelers (Yor, Spock, Kirk, Colt) are somehow linked. And Wesley would fit that bill too.
Weird not to have Wheaton there if it’s meant to be Wesley. Unless he was invited and he just hates Shatner so hard he didn’t want to be in the same scene with him.
I think it is much more than deleted scenes. I guess they are building towards a story, step by step, with each short.
He appears to be the fellow by the fountain in the FC era dress uniform.
At the end with Spock, is this Shatner’s goodbye to his old friend, a goodbye he never got the chance to do in real life? And when Spock puts his right hand on top of his, is this a wishful representation of Nimoy forgiving Shatner, for whatever happened between them at the end?
I think that’s a big part of it.
It’s either showing that Kirk was at peace and came back, at the very least in spirit, to be there with his friend.
I know Shatner ticked Nimoy off and Nimoy consequently cut him off and I think that was very painful for Shatner, and maybe Nimoy too at the end. So, yeah, I think this film works on both those levels.
a noble effort, but not quite film-ready yet, especially Generations era Kirk. The body type of the live-action player was all sorts of wrong. The other Kirk versions were very well done (although the reflection in the pool didn’t look quite right either)
The story as it were also made no sense, but this was more about showing off the tech and potential than telling a coherent story
It was fine at 98 percent, and the story was about Kirk’s time in the Nexus, and what he did shortly before his death.
So that’s it? Kirk leaves the Nexus to say goodbye to Spock and then, I guess, returns to it and then dies?
That’s not how I read it. Like, why would Saavik be in the Nexus?
I’m still confused.
I don’t think it’s the Nexus either. Yor is also there (how would he get in the Nexus) who seems to brings Kirk back to his universe to be reunited with Spock.
Now, who’s Yor?
He was a Mirror Universe Star Fleet officer revealed by Dr. Kovich during a 32nd century conversation when Emperor Georgiou was losing her marbles after Discovery jumped to the future. He had, until Georgiou, been the only person known to have jumped universes and time.
Not MU, Kelvinverse.
Got it now. I remember seeing him. Thanks!
Hmmmmm.
I am equally impressed but also dumbfounded.
What was the point of the short? If it was for Kirk & Spock to reconcile for some reason then why all the scenes in the park,why all the other people there, who was the Reman guy? Why was it more like 2001 a space Odyssey than Star Trek??
Also it is clear the technology is not there 100% yet. Yes this is the best it has ever looked,but it is not there yet.
I wonder if this was some sales pitch to showcase what the technology is on the cusp of achieving and they are leaving the door open for the potential to keep making Star Trek with the likenesses of TOS cast, but the voices are going to be an issue. My brain was hurting from how many times those faces of Shatner and Nimoy formed their lips to speak but nothing came out.
There is no point having Shatner and Nimoy’s likenesses without their voices. It has to be the full package or this is just a novelty with nothing more substantial than silent short scenes.
This was impressive and beautiful, but confusing at the same time.
It is apt though because Star Trek Generations is likely the worst incarnation of the 1964-2004 Trek.
It was the best of times it was the worst of times….
The voice is really easy to recreate with AI. Much more than the likeness… The option for no speech is artistic, not technical.
Well, there’s also the complication of having to make it look real, and people pick up on when that looks off right away. They’re already occasionally dipping into the uncanny valley as it is, so having to make this look right with a lip sync, even if they mocapped Shatner reading the lines, would be tempting fate.
Still, some of these shots were breathtaking.
Sorry, Star Trek V was the worst of the lot.
Only if the ‘lot’ consists just of TMP, TFF and TWOK. All of the features have got loads of problems, those three are at least sporadically well-made and/or entertaining most of the time.
And with the best scores out of the bunch by far. I say that grudgingly owing to Horner’s massive ripoffs (i.e., career) of so many of his betters as well as himself.
For me it will always be Nemesis. But TFF comes very close
For me it’s TVH. Which is quite sad because I’m so very partial to the TOS crew and pains me they made something so amazingly unwatchable.
Yeah I know!
That wasn’t a Reman. That was Yor, from DISCOVERY, as the article explained.
Who? I gave up watching Discovery because it is not proper Star Trek so that character means nothing to me
Since there’s no such thing as “proper Star Trek,” I don’t know what you mean.
The entire point of the Roddenberry Archive is to help showcase and in a way, preserve, what Star Trek is & can be for future generations.
nahh…. I don’t know what this is… not a fan
The problem with Star Trek is not that it does not have Leonard Nimoy or William Shatner (or any previous actors/actresses) appearing in it,the problem is the writers of modern Trek cannot write Star Trek.
If someone goes and CGIs Shatner and Nimoy into “Nu-Trek” it is hardly solving the problem with modern day Star Trek.
This technology is impressive and stirs the emotions,but realistically??
It’s a short film and made by a different company not involved with the Kurtzman shows or movies. It’s not trying to solve any ‘problems’, just a nice gesture for Generations 30th anniversary. And what exactly was wrong with the writing here? People seem to love it so far.
Some people might have issue with the fact that the character Yor, shown on Discovery Season 3, shows up here. That would automatically discredit this short from being as good as it could be.
Remember, the point of the Roddenberry archive is to preserve Star Trek for future generations to enjoy. Having the bridges of the Discovery & Strange New Worlds version of the Enterprise bridge along side the original may not sit well with people.
So, in other words, you’re essentially gatekeeping Star Trek, right? After all, if you’re saying that the Roddenberry Archive shouldn’t tie any of its material to current Trek, then it should only appeal to those who like old-school Trek. You don’t get to dictate that, and thank goodness. Perspectives like that are what makes Trek fandom such an intolerable one to be a part of nowadays.
I am not trying to gatekeep here per se.I’m saying that there are people that WOULD likely discredit it.
There are so many that detest Star Trek: Discovery & the Kelvin Timeline films, since none of them feel that either should be tacked on to that of the original series.
I detest their points of view since it’s all Star Trek officially, and no one but the people in charge of it can deem something canon.
Sadly there are people who will have this attitude. I’m not the biggest Discovery fan and it is my least favorite show in fandom, but I still acknowledge the show freaking exists and should be included like every show and film should before and after it. It’s not about YOU!
But some fans just have these weird quirks and it existed long before Discovery and the Kelvin films showed up. I still remember reading a message board maybe here or somewhere else years ago where some fans got their panties in a bunch because some TOS comic book had came out and they had referenced Phlox in it. This was a few years after Enterprise was cancelled, so long ago now. Phlox himself didn’t even appear in it, his name was just associated with an award or something in the story. But it was bizarre that people were literally angry about it because it had the nerve to make a very light reference to a show some fans didn’t like in a TOS storyline. And in a comic book, which isn’t even considered canon anyway, so who the hell cares???
Apparently some did. And I guess nearly 20 years later here we still are. This is where you tell yourself it’s just fictional entertainment and it’s time to touch some grass somewhere or get a dog or something if stuff like this bothers you that much
Because it’s all canon people. Discovery, Kelvin movies, Lower Decks, SNW and so on. You don’t have to like any of it but that’s simply the reality. And if people don’t want NuTrek to mix in with the older stuff they do consider canon or revere (which ironically now includes Enterprise), the simple solution is ignore it and move on. But there is zero reason to try and appease people like this nor should they try.
He’s never really identified as such. If you regard DISCO as non-canon or whatever, you can just envision him as “random alien” without altering anything.
In the credits, there’s a character named Yor.
All of the characters in each of these short films are identified in the credits, including Yor.
Yes, but that doesn’t mean “Yor” has to be the same Yor as in Disco.
True. I didn’t recall who he was watching it. And yes… To me he was just “random alien” and it altered nothing about my experience watching it.
“Some people might have issue with the fact that the character Yor, shown on Discovery Season 3, shows up here. That would automatically discredit this short from being as good as it could be.”
In fairness, those people should not be taken seriously.
Agreed.
Well, those people can gatekeep in silence, then, because gatekeepers are the worst.
The OTOY creative team has shown more respect for the canon that has been created by Secret Hideout Trek, than Secret Hideout has shown toward the franchise’s canon that preceded it.
“Some people might have issue with the fact that the character Yor, shown on Discovery Season 3, shows up here. That would automatically discredit this short from being as good as it could be.”
OK, fine, but it’s canon eitherway, right? And I don’t understand how knowing a character just appearing on another show (who technically never actually appeared) makes it less good??? This is such a bizarre argument to me. So if it was just a random new alien then it would be OK?
I get Discovery is still a very divisive show today but I don’t understand how that matters in terms of this short.
I’ve thought of these as basically tone poems. There is nothign within them that violates canon, and whether it’s canonical or not is not likely to ever be explored officially beyond this medium. We’ll see if something somewhere down the line confirms it.
That suggests that Star Trek can’t be anything more than what we’ve already seen. Star Trek is more than just TOS and its films, and the Berman Era. If you’re going to box in Star Trek as just being whatever you liked about old-school Trek, you’re limiting its growth, and narrowing your mind.
I’ll grant you that not all modern Trek has captured the feeling of Star Trek. Discovery tried and (mostly) failed (even though I liked it more than I disliked it). Lower Decks DEFINITELY hasn’t; it mostly exaggerates or pokes fun at it, to varying degrees of success. I don’t know what the ever-loving hell Picard was trying to do. The only two shows that embrace what Trek was AND what Trek can still be are Prodigy and Strange New Worlds.
Wow this was utterly fantastic. A really beautiful short film. I didn’t expect to see William Shatner himself as a part of this and thirty years to the day he last played the character. A nice bookend of sorts. It was also great to see Saavik back.
I never had any real desire to see Kirk return again once he died in Generations. It never made sense why he had to come back outside of fan service basically. But the way this was done and to see him reunited with a dying Spock was beautiful and poignant. It’s a reminder why I love Star Trek so much.
I love how this has brought a ton of posters out of hibernation. It’s heartening.
What is your interpretation of what is going on in this film, Tiger? Are we looking at Kirk and Spock reuniting in some kind of after life? What is going on with Gary Mitchell in the opening? And Yeoman Colt?
It believe it is deliberately open for interpretation to encourage discussions such as this, to essentially create a bit of buzz for the archive and potentially test out interest in future storytelling such as this short.
My own analysis is that Spock visited Jim’s grave on Veridian III and had the same thought as most of us watching Generations: “This cannot be how the story of James T Kirk ends”.
Spock takes Jim’s body to the Daystrom Institute where they attempt to reanimate him. Mia Colt is seen examining him there. Throughout all the OTOY videos, Mia is seen in various timeframes and universes, indicated by her change in uniforms. Perhaps Mia is part of Section 31?
Spock eventually ends up in the Kelvin universe before Jim can be reanimated. Mia requires the assistance of a “God”, Gary Mitchell (perhaps still imprisoned on Delta Vega) to complete her mission to reanimate Jim, an opportunity for Gary’s redemption.
Once Jim is successfully reanimated, he finds Spock’s nearest and dearest (his wife, his son, miscellaneous others lol) who have gathered to either help or watch Jim cross over into the KU with Yor’s assistance (as Yor has existed in both universes).
When Jim joins Spock on New Vulcan, Spock can die in peace not only because he is comforted by the presence of his friend but also because he finally knows his mission to bring Jim back to life (as Jim did for Spock on the Genesis Planet) has succeeded.
Obviously there are a lot of gaps in this analysis. I can’t work out what the V’Ger imagery is alluding to, and a lot of my summations are a lot of guess work. I’d love to hear others’ analysis/thoughts.
I really enjoyed this, and have enjoyed trying to piece it all together.
Thank you for your thoughtful response and analysis, Dominus. I really appreciate it.
This is, so far, the most lucid explanation I’ve seen, Dominus. Really, I think you’re onto it there. Well done!
Ok, here’s what I’m having problems with though.
Thankyou Rocketscientist.
To your further points:
Re: Gary Mitchell – essentially he became so powerful he became a god. How do you kill a god? His physical form might be dead but he was evolving into something more, perhaps he no longer needs his physical body. And it is Star Trek after all, no one is ever really dead lol.
Re: Colt – it could be nothing more than she is a stand in for the audience, the users of the Roddenberry Archive. In the same manner that she is jumping from timelines and universes, touching props like Spock’s photo album, users of the Roddenberry archive are able to do the same. For an in-story explanation, I do really like linking it to the Watchers, that’s a great connection.
Re: V’Ger – there was a previous OTOY video called Memory Wall, which I’m guessing is a reference to the deleted/unfinished Memory Wall scene from inside V’Ger from TMP. The eye looking “pond” on top of that rock structure is very reminiscent of the eye shaped structure inside V’Ger, although they could be just two eye shaped things but based on the way references are weaved in this I don’t think it’s accidental. Also in one of the OTOY videos, I can’t recall which one off the top of my head, in the flashes of imagery is the V’Ger’s complete nameplate showing the original Voyager name. Spock and Colt are also shown in TMP uniforms in the Memory Wall video, so the TMP time period is important somehow. All the OTOY videos are linked and share imagery, I believe they are all part of the same “narrative”.
It could be that Colt tried to seek out V’Ger to help build an advanced cybernetic body for Kirk’s consciousness, like the Ilia probe? Perhaps before or perhaps after trying to do so at the Daystrom Insitute.
It’s also worth noting that the Daystrom Institute where Colt is studying Kirk’s body is on Earth, separate from the Daystrom Station in PIC s3 where Kirk’s body (and bio sign!) was seen.
Honestly after reading Dominus of Qo’nos amazing take on it, I can’t remotely do any better. I really like their explanation and just makes sense even if admittedly there are still some holes in it. But as said, it’s supposed to be a more surreal experience, I don’t think we have to understand all of it.
IKR, im astounded by this and have had to stop everything/put life on hold to thoroughly analyse this new video and get reading all the comments etc lol (whats that poem used in Four Weddings?..’stop the clocks, turn the phone off’ etc.. thats where I’m at with this latest otoy!) .. After reading so many comments in here and utube totally not getting what its about (ppl are like ‘is he in the afterlife?, the nexus? is this kirks ghost visiting old spock? whatever it is im now on my knees weeping like a baby!!’) I’m quite chuffed I managed to get what was happening first watch that the Reman looking dude in TNG suit was the universe hopping Discovery guy Cronenberg was talking about creating a non neon ‘Alternative Factor’ doorway into the kelvinverse for a resurrected from Generations Kirk to be with Prime Spock as he dies .. Just wonderful. I didn’t get that was most likely Spocks son until I read about it tho. I’m also happy i wasn’t spoiled before watching so was shocked and surprised at seeing Gary (whatever he was doing or why he would want to help kirk lol), old age TNG/Pic 3 era Saavik, the various kirks in the corridor (incredible recreation of TOS and especially TWOK Kirk), and ultimately the dying ‘Beyond’ Spock :(the only redeeming thing in that film)
So the people seeing Kirk off, they weren’t the departed in heaven?
I like the idea that they are all departed, helping Spock join them on the other side or whatever.
The man in the ENT era dress uniform that others have identified in the credits as Crusher, is obviously from “the past” relatively speaking.
But Saavik and Spock’s son with her are obviously both a lot younger than Spock. At what time does this scene take place if they have also died by this point?
I am choosing to interpret this not as a strictly physical meeting in the garden but a meeting of their consciousnesses, outside of time and across universes. Some are likely deceased, others like Saavik and their son who are Vulcan could potentially still be alive at whatever point in time this is, being present there via some Vulcan katra thingimybob.
I had wondered if this was supposed to be the Genesis planet, but the fountain threw me off that theory.
Something about the way Jim is touching the plants as he walks past them suggests to me that it’s not just his consciousness but that he is actually in a physical form. Perhaps he required a physical form to travel across the universes to the KU.
There are always… possibilities.
I just don’t see anything pointing to this being an afterlife. I think it’s fine if you prefer that.. it’s open ended enough that you can go that route. Personally, I think there is much more evidence of their being a scientific ‘resurrection’, and sending Kirk to the Kelvinverse. It gets better every time I watch it, and that seems more and more evident to me. Everything you see has purpose, even if we haven’t quite figured it out…. and I think that’s pretty great.
Yeah I love how it touches on so many things and draws from all the new elements of Trek we have today. Even though some people look at Star Trek as ‘science fact’, I always liked the surreal/spiritual nature of it all as well. You can probably look at this movie and just argue it from a scientific perspective (time travel, multiverse hopping. Nexus, etc) or you can see it through a metaphysical level as an interpretation of consciousness in an alternate form of reality. In other words either it’s all happening in real life in a physical space or it’s simply a dream like state someone managed to conjure up. Either one could be valid IMO.
Y’know, I’d love to hear Ron Moore and Brannon Braga’s reactions to this short.
Or, heck, even Rick Berman (who never ever loved or appreciated TOS imo).
Wow! They did an awesome job with this. I especially loved seeing TOS Kirk. They really captured his mannerisms from the time.
Seeing this made me cry a little and reminded me just how much I miss Star Trek.
Great and poignant way to celebrate 30th anniversary of Star Trek Generations with Kirk, Spock, Saavik, Yeoman Colt, and Gary. I wish McCoy was in this.
i don’t think Deforest Kelley would’ve approved, and given how long it’s been since his death they probably didn’t want to assume it would be ok in any case.
I thought about it.. as cool as it would be to see the Troika together in death, I think it would have been too much. If you think about it, McCoy was always taking a back seat to those two. ST II, it was Kirk and Spock together when Spock died. ST III, the big moment at the end, it pretty much Kirk and Spock, McCoy goes and hangs out with everyone else. I think it’s much more appropriate with just those two… and much more poignant the way it is. McCoy is a favorite, so it’s a little hard for me to not agree with you just because of personal bias toward McCoy as a character, but if you really think about it, it makes much more sense that he’s not in it.
Gotta disagree. For me, it’s the trinity all the way.
Don’t get me wrong.. I love the trinity, too… I just think the individual bond between Kirk and Spock is much more established, explored. I just can’t see McCoy being in this without it feeling forced, and it also seems like they’d need to really change this up to make that work.
It is interesting Saavik is a part of this and yet McCoy isn’t. WE ALL LOVE SAAVIK, but outside of the movies she was in, she has never been mentioned again anywhere in canon at least (kind of shocking especially in the modern Trek era where every character of even minute importance has been given a shout out somewhere).
So it would’ve made sense to include McCoy considering Colt and Gary is there as well.
I think Saavik makes a lot of sense to include here. Clearly, everyone else is long gone when they do this, and an old Saavik really makes sense as one of the last living people (in the assumed time period this takes place in) to have a connection to him.
No I don’t have an issue with her being there of course, but if you have to pick between her and Bones, it’s obviously no contest either. Her connection to Kirk is pretty minor in the scheme of things. But you’re also right, she would be one of the last living people Kirk would know in this period so makes sense for her to be there.
I was expecting interesting things from OTOY and wow …. I was impressed. And I admit I got all teary-eyed when our two heroes found each other in the sunset scene ….. or, was that a sunRISE scene? That would make more sense for a Star Trek storyline. (“Logic is the BEGINNING of wisdom, not the end.”)
I am also emotional at seeing Robin Curtis, and Gary Lockwood: WOW, they came back to Star Trek after all these years! I’d LOVE to hear them both answer questions at a convention on if they ever thought ANYTHING like this could ever happen…. LOL.
About the Vulcan standing behind Savvik: is that Spock’s son (as Picard mentioned in the teaser of TNG’s episode “Sarek”) — which would have been why Savvik stayed on Vulcan at the beginning of the 4th movie?
So many questions – and SO MANY POSSIBILITIES …..! OTOY and company have opened the door to a whole new dimension of TV and movie potential. No, wait – they’ve CREATED or INVINTED A WHOLE, NEW DOOR.
WOW.
Thank you, Bill. And Gary. And Robin. And EVERYONE who made this happen.
Now, to go get another box of facial tissues.
From the credits, the the male vulcan appears to be named Sorak. That would fit into the naming convention with Sarek & Spock (both names that have an S & K in it). It’s very well possible that it could be Spock’s son. Whether or not this is intended to be canon is anyone’s guess.
Well, I wish it was canon. If it was done under the auspices of Paramount, then wouldn’t it be?
And, if so, why wouldn’t they say it’s canonical. They don’t have to use one single element of this. It looks like, if Kirk was indeed resurrected here, he’s in the Abrams’ ST universe. Therefore, he can’t affect what’s going on in the Prime Universe at all.
They only thing this could affect is whatever is happening on the motion picture side of Paramount, and that is, potentially, the next film with the ST 2009 characters.
Actually, here’s another thought. Kirk has appeared to Spock when Spock is on his deathbed. Spock’s death occurred what, no more than weeks or a couple months before Star Trek Beyond.
Now there has been a gap between Star Trek Beyond and whenever (or ever) the next Abrams movie will come out. If they wanted to incorporate Kirk, he’d necessarily have aged from that Nexus age to whenever the next movie has occurred. This means, less de-aging sfx necessary for Shatner.
Maybe it could be considered Canon, I mean this is official Roddenberry Archive/Paramount is it not? and Shatner is involved (and previous otoy showed the Ent D bring salvaged to tie in with Picard s3). It doesn’t get more official than (its not as if its ST Continues lol) If you remember Alien Covenant used a web only scene as Canon showing Shaw reattaching Davids head following the events of Prometheus, but it wasn’t used in the movie or directed by Ridley Scott (it was eventually put on the bluray along with a few others, same happened with Prometheus) and Dr Who did it with its 50 anniversary a ‘webisode’ showing McGann’s 8th Doctor regenerating into John Hurts War Doctor. I guess if these OtOy segments are Canon then could stick them on an eventual blu ray of a kelvin Star Trek 4 (especially if they bring back Shatner Kirk!) or a 4k reissue of Generations etc like happened with Alien Covenant/Doctor Who 50
Or Saavik’s son with David? Kirk’s grandson?
If Saavik was indeed Spock’s later wife as well, that would make her ancestress of all of both Kirk’s and Spock’s descendants, which would be wild.
The time between Wrath of Khan and The Search for Spock was likely days, if not just a few weeks. That’s not enough time to really form a relationship with someone else.
Relationships are one thing, but the novelization of Star Trek III has them sleeping together, and one (fan) explanation of Saavik’s remaining on Vulcan at the beginning of IV is that she was pregnant with David’s child. (It’s unclear whether Kirk knows.)
Picard mentions being at Spock’s wedding; that his wife (or a previous wife) was Saavik is also fanon.
Kirk does look at both Saavik and Sorak very meaningfully. Well, we know he knew Saavik. Sorak, it could go either way- that it’s his grandson or Spock’s son would both be meaningful, although you’d expect more emotion if the former.
Novelizations are not canon to that of the TV series.
Indeed, of course.
Yeah, I think Sorak is supposed to be Spock’s son. I like it.
That theory about Saavik: I know DeForest Kelly made a joke about delivering Spock’s son, something about getting the ears out. So, maybe that was, at least, something Harve Bennet put in ST III that could be used later one. IIRC, though, I read somewhere that Nimoy, for whatever reason, wanted to kill that storyline, hence writing out Curtis’ Saavik in ST IV.
It’s a shame. I wish they’d put Spock’s marriage with Saavik into canon explicitly and their son. Spock did have years and years after ST VI. Maybe he and Saavik grew beyond the mentor-mentee relationship, especially if she gave birth to his child.
They did in the books, IIRC. Vonda McIntyre obviously liked romance novels.
I was wondering about the sunrise/sunset as well. Spock doesn’t seem to “die.”
I believe Nimoy himself strongly objected to the idea that Saavik had sex with Spock in ST III. (Considering the age and mental state of the young Spock.) That means she probably did something telepathic, not physical, with him.
Nimoy probably should have objected, but I think he only objected to the pregnancy stuff Bennett wrote into TVH. In fact, since his comments about TSFS indicate he wanted to use the film to explore the nature of Vulcans, I think he welcomed the scene, and never realized there’d be potential consequences arising from it.
Yes it’s Spock and Saavik’s son. It’s confirmed in the Robin Curtis video.
Hi Al
this was very poignant. In Irish tradition for some, loved ones appear at the time of passing to accompany us to the next world. Spock loved ones had gathered at the fountain, and Kirk was chosen to bring him through. Beautifully done.
Maybe that’s it too. I can’t quite decide whether Kirk is back in the flesh or not. It looks like they were suggesting that with Yeoman Colt’s jumping around in time or whatever and Gary Mitchell (who looked great too).
That looked incredible!
I enjoyed this short immensely 💖! It brought tears to my eyes. I’ve read other people’s comments on here and they mention this short reminded them about losses that they have suffered in life recently and I just wanted to tell them that I empathize and sympathize with them. I lost my Mom on Christmas Eve 2021 and I still feel the weight of her loss in my life. I lost my daughter 16 years ago (2008). She died from pneumonia and my Mom suffered a massive cardiac event. I had just started to make peace with my Daughter’s death and then I lost my Mom. My Mom and I were very close all my life. I was her only child. We were a close knit family. She was the one who introduced me to Star Trek when I was only 5 years old back in the early-’80s. TNG didn’t exist yet and we were two years away from the 20th anniversary of TOS. We both loved Star Trek completely. I got more into the books, comics, card games, video games, and action figures etc etc and my Mom just watched the TV shows and the movies with me. She didn’t have time to do anything else since she was working two jobs most of the time to keep a roof over our heads because she left my Dad when I was 10 (he was physically abusive towards her.). My journey as a Trekkie didn’t really start until I was 12 and I owe my entire love for Star Trek to her. She bought me a TOS Enterprise telephone when I was in my teens (which was very expensive at that time). Anything that I wanted she did her best to make sure I got it. And I’ve got tons and tons more memories of her entwined with Star Trek to cherish and reflect on. I’d be writing a reply that’s as big as Stephen King’s The Stand if I were to list every single thing she got me as it related to Star Trek throughout my entire life 😄. But my point is that I empathize and sympathize with the people on here who have suffered losses. God Bless you and I hope you find the strength to continue on this journey that is life. I found the majority of my strength from my wife and Star Trek. Star Trek helped me out a lot after I lost my daughter. William Shatner continued on after he lost his wife from suicide. Captain Kirk continued on after losing his son, David. I took strength from that because I could relate since I lost my daughter. Star Trek has always given me strength. More TOS than anything else since I grew up idolizing Captain Kirk and William Shatner (my father was around but he was not someone to look up to or idolize.). I loved my Mom very much. She did a great job raising me on her own back in the ’90s. She was a strong woman and I drew a lot of my resilience and strength from her. But stuff happens over time. She went through more relationships that were abusive and then she was diagnosed with Huntington’s Disease in 2014 and I was diagnosed with it in 2015. She didn’t care too much about being diagnosed with Huntington’s. She was more upset that I have it. But that’s another story for another time. Suffice it to say, when I lost my Mom, it felt like the world was ending because she always had my back no matter what. But you find your way. God has been a big help to me as well. I pray to him and talk to my Mom every day and it helps ease the pain and the grief. Honestly, my Mom has probably already been reincarnated since she passed (she had such a beautiful soul not to be.). I tend to believe in a little bit of everything when it comes to religion. As time goes by, the grief gets a little easier. But, as everyone gets older, life is mainly just about losing your loved ones. After I lost my Daughter, my Grandmother was next and then my favorite Aunt and Uncle passed too (not together, one after the other). And my cat, Salem, passed away as well after being alive for twenty years. So life, man, is just all about getting harder and lonelier as you get older. But that’s why you make new acquaintances or friends as you journey down the road you’re on. Once you lose your family, you don’t ever recover that. Even if you have your own kids, it’s just not the same as when we were kids without a care in the world to worry about.… Read more »
Did we just witness the end of the uncanny valley?
It’s in sight now anyway. Wander in the digital desert for nearly 40 years and finally get the promised land in view.
not even close. at it’s worst it was a PS4 level cut scene. At it’s best – it was still not spot on but remarkable nonetheless
Really? Outside of the skin not sticking to the geometry during motion, what other giveaways did you see? I’ve only seen it on my phone, not my desktop monitor, so I will give it another view to see what other giveaways are evident, and the eyes — which have always been giveaways — weren’t for me this time.
Generations Kirk was still very uncanny – the head / neck line was weird, almost like it cropped and stuck on a couple of inches too short) the actor’s body was not at all the right dimensions (sorry, but it was clearly a young fit guy in his 30’s, not a tubby guy in his 60s), especially when he met the Reman in the park, he was walking very oddly, trying to distend his belly but it was a terrible, unrealistic gait. The skin was very plastic and shiny. Mind you – in a video game, it would be considered excellent, but it was not the crossing of the uncanny rubicon
Exactly. He was padded out and his gait was odd.
I still think the technology is a bit too dodgy. There were moments during that short where the de-aging on Kirk looked pretty rough. Don’t get me wrong; it has definitely improved over time, but I don’t believe it’ll ever quite get to the point where we won’t be able to discern AI from reality.
No words. 🖖🏼
I am emotionally compromised.
It was..fun..
Kind of a Interstellar/Arrival/Ad Astra vibe like Star Trek as if directed by Nolan, Denis Villeneuve or Terence Malick (as with the previous OTOYs)
Yeah, I think you got something there. The surrealism or whatever you want to call it. Not parsing things out into words for the audience as to what’s happening.
The going through the corridor with kirk going from Prime universe to Kelvinverse/spocks death bed also recalled the going through the dayglo/neon corridor/door bit from The Alternative Factor I think .. The way TOS kirk moved in the corridor..
This may be the closest we get to your dream Kelvin multiverse movie lol.
Yes indeed! I was also wondering if perhaps something similar to this deaged Kirk meeting dying Spock scene was planned for Orci’s lost ST3 (as I talked about in another post on this now mega thread)
To be honest, I doubt it. I don’t think Spock was ever meant to die in those movies, but Nimoy’s real life death changed that obviously.
And based on some of the earlier rumors, there was the idea they wouldn’t actually be their prime universe counterparts but just older versions of Pine and Quinto’s characters. Again, strictly a rumor at the time but I don’t think Orci ever debunked it either, so yeah, who knows?
My understanding is initially Shatner and Nimoy were to appear (as their prime verse characters), when nimoy died it was realigned with just Shatner (those tweets orci made describing the plot of the chase against the Annuaki for an ancient device to reset the timeline, the temptation to restore Vulcan,kirks father,spocks mother. kirk and spock helped by Kirk Prime due to timeline alterations. and some comments orci made on TM saying Shatner would be deaged slightly, Alice Eve would’ve returned as Carol, the swarm and space station would’ve been there, and it wouldn’t have been called Beyond)
I guess you can understand why paramount felt it was ‘too star trek’ or too ‘deepdive’ into Trek, as it was dealing with the alterations to the timeline and attempting to reset it etc , when most regular moviegoers/casual fans would just think the new movies were standard prequels to TOS not an alternate timeline.(or had forgot the altered timeline stuff by the 2nd/3rd film) So Par wanted to get on with the new crew doing their own thing and appeal more to the marvel audience, not so much going back to dealing with the prime timeline for the trekkies (like the way TNG got on with their own big screen adventures after Generations). Maybe Orcis movie would’ve been more acceptable for a trilogy ender (the alt timeline trilogy, which ironically wouldve been very apt in hindsight considering there’s been no 4th and kelvinverse is all but dead now) not so much an expected continuing film series with the new young crew (remember for the majority of the 2010s Prime Trek was considered dead, and any potential new TV series would’ve been thought to be kelvin timeline based)
Actually I think this is the most I have heard about the premise of the movie. I knew it was to try and reset the timeline but never heard of those aliens before or that Carol Marcus was supposed to be back.
But yeah unfortunately it does sound way too Trek-y for a general audience. It would be a typical 2 part episode of TNG or DS9 but the studio probably felt they have to dumb it way down for the teenagers so we got Beyond instead.
Its exactly why Star Trek is always better on TV and why I’m not exactly losing sleep if we ever get another movie before 2030. The Starfleet origin movie doesn’t sound very appealing but I’m guessing it’s going to be a very straight forward story of getting the first Starfleet ship into space or something and a villain (because there is always a villain in these movies) to maybe stop it for reasons. Could be way off but that’s my guess.
As far as Orci’s movie, once Nimoy died, it would’ve probably derailed the story greatly anyway. And it would’ve felt weird a dead Kirk just showed up in the Kelvin universe without Prime Spock there.
ironic that the eventual movie turned out to be ‘too Star Trek’ (extended ep feel like Insurrection) for general audiences lol
i forgot to mention the absolute big dog of Scifi and the one those movies i quoted were influneced by – 2001/kubrick duh
Never has William Shatner had so little to say.
Gotta admit, Bill, in all these tears and the like, that made me chuckle.
Good one!
Beautiful – now this, THIS is Star Trek.
I know you mean well by saying this, but whenever something like that is uttered, it just reeks of gatekeeping.
Gatekeeping what exactly
There are people out there that feel they can say what is or isn’t Star Trek. For instance:
TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT – canon series
Discovery, Picard, Lower Decks, Strange New Worlds, Prodigy, Starfleet Academy, Section 31 – NuTrek/New Trek canon
TMP to Nemesis – canon movies
Star Trek (2009), Into Darkness, Star Trek Beyond – Kelvin Timeline canon but not original canon
No one, except the people in charge, have the authority to say what is or is not canon for other people.
Star Trek 1964-2005
See, that’s what I’m talking about. Star Trek isn’t just from 1964-2005, it’s 1964-present.
It’s just the Star Trek you cared about existed then.
“TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT – canon series
Discovery, Picard, Lower Decks, Strange New Worlds, Prodigy, Starfleet Academy, Section 31 – NuTrek/New Trek canon
TMP to Nemesis – canon movies
Star Trek (2009), Into Darkness, Star Trek Beyond – Kelvin Timeline canon but not original canon”
I honestly shake my head when I see stuff like this, but yeah sadly you do see people with this attitude. I’m not in love with everything NuTrek but I’m not in love with everything classic Trek either. And I always remind people there were some fans arguing shows like DS9 and ENT weren’t considered canon to them either back in the day. For DS9 just went too far off the map away from Roddenberry’s ‘vision’ for some (huge eye roll) and ENT just didn’t line up with TOS canon properly to ever see that show as nothing but a sham towards it (another eye roll). And for a long time I wasn’t in love with Enterprise either.
Today, as you literally just pointed out, they are now seen just as a part of what people consider ‘real’ Star Trek more than ever. It’s amazing what time and nostalgia can ultimately do I guess. And in time that will happen with these newer shows and movies I’m betting.
But for now, I just wish people stopped with this BS. Anything titled Star Trek is part of all the same canon that is shown on screen. Doesn’t matter when it was made or who made it. That doesn’t mean you can’t point out canon inconsistencies and issues which I do ALL the time (still hate that Burnham and Spock are siblings just as much as I still hate there is a Khan descendant serving on the Enterprise), but it still doesn’t mean they ‘don’t count’ either.
I have said a thousand times over I wish they just called Discovery a reboot and did whatever they wanted. But even if they did just that, it would still be considered part of the same original canon, simply in its own universe like the Kelvin movies are today. Same argument some have with SNW as well. Others have argued the same with the animated shows, especially Lower Decks. But since they didn’t do any of that you have to just GET OVER IT ALREADY!!!!
It’s all part of the same canon, period.
Unfortunately, plenty of people will NEVER get over it.
What drives me nuts is when people make a point in a clear split between the two Star Trek production eras & talk about them like they’re two different properties. Many of these people that do this are gatekeeper purists who feel the original canon is something sacred. Many of them go a step farther and say that “so & so actor/actress can only be this character” which also gets annoying.
To those purists, they see Discovery et al. as being “NuTrek” something which is using the Star Trek name, but isn’t the same & therefore has its own separate fandom that is distinct from the original. It’s like what you said, people should learn to get over it already.
Oh yeah, you’re definitely right, it’s clearly not going away judging by all the angry videos and posts I see on Youtube alone lol.
But that said, I do think those people are in the minority today. Majority of the fanbase does seem to accept it all as simply Star Trek, even if they don’t love everything. But it’s the loud vocal haters as one guy used to constantly say here that makes it feel like a tsunami of discontents who thinks NuTrek is absolute trash that should never be compared to the classic era of shows and outright be purged from canon.
And what bares that out are actually the online polls (which some people oddly don’t like when I bring up but this is literally why I bring it up lol). It shows the opposite and overall the new shows seem to be at least liked overall in the fanbase. Not only that, but every new show has gained more popularity than the last one, which is a great trend to see obviously. Yeah some shows like Discovery still struggle more today, but honestly that isn’t any different than when Enterprise was first airing and as stated now that show is seen just as popular as the other shows today. And like Enterprise, it’s last season seems to be the most popular too overall. That’s a good thing.
But it’s not just mouth breathing fanboys trying to knock everything down. Most fans are actually reasonable and rational at the end of the day; even if still critical.
But yeah, I really hate the people who distinguish the new shows as something different and almost foreign to what we got from 1966-2005. It’s so dumb but as I said that was done in that era itself as well and you had some TOS fans that looked at the spin offs as something foreign or different. Even some TNG fans didn’t look at the later spin offs as comparable to that show either because Roddenberry had nothing do with those, etc. So none of this is new, this is just the latest cycle of this mentality (although yes certainly the biggest, especially in the age of social media). Of course people should just like what they like, but those people felt just as eye rolling and ridiculous back then as these people who hate the new era do now.
But as said, all these people have always been in the minority. I been a fan since the 70s and grew up with other fans, especially in school and I never met anyone who actually felt that way in real life; it was always just online. But most people I knew just treated it all as the same even if others were bigger fans of one show vs others naturally. But no one called it ‘Berman Trek’ or ‘Bennet Trek’, whatever, as we do online. It was just called Star Trek lol.
Agree so much!
Well I wasn’t expecting to be ugly crying on a monday afternoon over Star Trek but here I am
Okay, that did nothing for me because it’s not real — it’s not Shatner and not Nimoy (it’s nice to see Robin Curtis, though – and her real emotion) — it’s just an animation/FX demo reel with no humanity (and no story or point).
And that is why I will not be watching.
Right. Like you read all these comments about something AND replied with your own but you won’t click “play”? Implausible.
Ikr, like certain ppl saying ‘i am a huge trekkie but I never watched the kelvin movies’ or ‘I turned off STID after 10 minutes’ or ‘after Picard s1/2 I refuse to watch s3 no matter how good reviews are.’ What BS lol. If they are fans they watched them first weekend and own the blu rays even if they had to go without food to afford it lol
That’s why he’s done it “technology” can’t be a 93 year old doing it.
You could make that same argument about any bit of classic animation, yet many early Disney efforts certainly engage emotionally, which is part of what made them such timeless classics.
However, I do agree with you to some degree … yesterday I rewatched the last episode of DEADWOOD season 1, which has a scene with Brad Dourif rage-praying to God, begging and hollering for him to allow a pain-tortured minister’s release from pain. Tears just poured out of me before Dourif was even halfway through with this scene, and they were earned, even though this was probably the 7th time I’d seen both the scene and the series.
I went back to this and watched this OTOY Trek thing straight through a couple hours later, and while I was actually impressed with a lot of aspects of the storytelling, it was something of an academic experience that did not engage me emotionally. But Spock’s death in TWOK didn’t get me the first time through either, so I won’t rule out it eventually having an emotional effect on me eventually.
I was going to mention that animation can tell incredible, emotional stories – even computer animation. I cried while watching Coco, inside Out, the Wild Robot, and even the silent part of Up with my niece.
This just feels like a lesser video game interstitial. Maybe pure animation would have worked better (I realize that the deaging is the whole point). Maybe it’s just this particular story.
For my money, “Deadwood” was the best damned thing on TV, ever. Not my favorite thing, necessarily, but the best thing. And it was great seeing Dourif play a good-hearted, sympathetic (if very damaged) character, as opposed to all the villains and misfits he was usually typecast as.
I had recently rewatched a MOONLIGHTING with Dourif in another rare sympathetic role, as a priest who cares a bit too much for one of his parishioners.
If there’d ever been a Garak-level role for him on Trek, I think he could have done wonders with it.
We just watched the DEADWOODs when Al has trouble passing a stone, and it was just as gut-wrenching as ever. I pretty much have to leave the room when he is screaming, and I think it is another reason why I don’t buy the torture scene in CASINO ROYALE, because I still could hear McShane’s shrieks in my head 2 or 3 years later when I rented that movie.
As much as I love TOMBSTONE (think I’ve seen it at least 25 times), the romance has never worked for me, and I don’t exactly adore the casting of Russell and Delaney. I think the chemistry that is there between Seth and the rich lady Alma is what I find lacking in that film.
Yeah, Al was tough enough that when Hearst had his little finger cut off he threatened to kill any man who fussed over him about it, but the kidney stone and Doc’s prospecting with that hook had him screaming loud enough that they could hear it from one end of the camp to the other. Anyone who thinks they’d have been better off living in the Old West never experienced the joys of surgery without morphine.
Agreed.
Man. This is what Star Trek should be. This needs to be canon. We never got closure with Kirk and Spock. Nice seeing Robin Curtis again.
Thank you Otoy for bringing these characters back. I cried. It was beautiful.
Who is Yor?
Beautiful! This should be made canon
incredible. blass doing incredible work even though he’s at marvel
Is there any consensus on what is going on in this film? What is Gary Mitchell doing? Is this Kirk wandering through some iteration of the Nexxus to connect with Spock at the moment of his death? Are they both in an afterlife? Obviously this is open to interpretation, but curious what others think.
My guess is that Kirk is in an afterlife and was chosen by Spock’s deceased family and friends to help him pass over in his final moments of life.
No idea how Gary Mitchell plays into it. Maybe there will be more to come?
Hopefully, Gary Mitchell will see some sort of redemption [arc] for his past.
If this were the case I initially thought it would be weird that none of the other TOS crew are present, then I realized there’s no evidence that any of the others were dead at that point. Still, one would expect his parents to be there at the least, and more Vulcans/Romulans too…
I think it was the afterlife rather than the Nexus because in the short video “Regeneration”, Spock takes Kirk’s Starfleet badge from his grave and in the new short “Unification”, the dead Kelvin Universe time agent was the one who returned it to Kirk. I am also assuming that time would have no meaning in the afterlife the same as it doesn’t in the Nexus.
All I really know is that I haven’t felt such strong emotions about Star Trek since Spock died the first time.
In terms of effects, almooost there. But hey, we’ve come a long way since the days of TRON: Legacy. So, well done to everyone involved.
As for the story, it’s weird, it’s wonderful. More please.
This was great… just left me wanting more wishing it all came together in some kind of movie with some dialog with Colt, Spock, Kirk, Saavik, etc with the Nexus / Colt’s multiverse used to approximate an exploration of life / the afterlife / what it all means and bring everything (V’ger, Gary Mitchell, etc) together in some final test/coming together.
Reminded me of when Trek was Trek and the unknown was out there and beyond anything we could expect today.
That was great! The long shots of him walking are awkward, but the close-ups are excellent. Perhaps they could have shot a body double for the long shots to make it more natural. In either case, I loved it!
I enjoyed this short film; the poignant moments, the beautiful cinematography.
As to what’s going on, or how it ties into a coherent whole, or what Yeoman Colt and “Crusher” have to do with all of this, who knows? The mystery may be part of the attraction.
This was great, but I think people unnecessarily criticize CBS Paramount because Picard season 3, Prodigy, Lower Decks, and Strange New Worlds are all wonderful.
“Oh, my.”
Exactly my thought! His next big adventure.
Well you definitely know this wasn’t made by JJ Abrams because there is no Beastie Boys playing anywhere in this thing!
Other than that massive misstep this is really cool. That scene with Kirk and Spock reuniting was beautiful. And I just watched Robin Curtis in TNGs Gambit a few days ago. Nice to see her back as Saavik. 😎🖖
You should also watch the interview with Robin Curtis that is linked on the YouTube page. She gets quite emotional about returning to the role.
Thanks. I’m going to look it up!
We need a Michael Bay style if it came out in 2007/JJ Beastie Boys re-edit , As spock dies and he and kirk look out into the horizon of new Vulcan, goes black end credits music kicks in except instead of ‘Whaat I doone!! …’ it be ‘I can’t stand it! I know you planned it!’
I still remember seeing her as a teacher in a guest shot on a series called RAGS TO RICHES in the late 80s in which she was excellent. I should probably check to see if it is on youtube or someplace …
150 comments in less than a day. Compare this to the comments on lower Decks and you see why they cancelled it.
This is what a lot of trekkies actually want.
I’m pretty sure if Kirk and Spock made an appearance on LDS the comments section would get up to 75 easily! 🤣😐
It’s weird. I dont dislike Lower Decks, but look at the comments and there’s barely double digits for the LDS posts. Even SFA, which I think will be pants only has 25 comments. The only other post in recent weeks to crack a hundred comments is on the Origins movie.
Trek is in a strange state that I last saw in the latter half of the 90’s. On the one hand, there are multiple Trek shows and movies in development. On the other hand, the fanbase is polarised (as it was with VOY and especially ENT). Some of the magic has gone. I’d say that a lot is riding on SFA and the next movie. The S31 is DOA and I think the powers that be know that from the fan reactions.
Crazy to think how popular ST09 was and how Paramount failed to capitalise on that.
I guess Star Trek is too old and nerdy these days for newer and younger people to get into in a bug way but because they keep trying to do different things with it to change that image to attract those same people, it’s also are scaring away a lot of the long time fans who wants the old school vibe back.
This movie is feeling like those old times I guess. You definitely see how people are responding to it on social media and why many of them aren’t connecting with shows like Discovery, Picard or Lower Decks and I like some of those too.
I think when Enterprise was canceled, a lot of people wanted to move away from that style of Trek and was happy to get something new and different. But now since we got it for the last 15 years, the opposite has happened and many thinks NuTrek sucks or just misses the mark what we got in the 80s and 90s and Trek should try to get back to its roots.
And I guess nostalgia is a strong drug for Trekkies.
And hey, won’t lie I’m also guilty as charged with that same attitude. Because never cared about JJ verse, Discovery, etc. I always accepted it all as part of the original canon but I didn’t have to like it either.
And yeah the first Kelvin movie was popular but I still think for most people who watched it it was just another generic summer action popcorn movie and didn’t care it was Star Trek or not. It was like going to McDonald’s, it hits the spot at that moment but it’s not something you think about ten minutes after you had it. At least that’s how I felt about it and probably why it stalled so fast. I honestly thought that was the kind of Trek we would get for the next 20 years (and only that) and it honestly depressed me.
But from LDS on, my tune has changed and I have grown to like more of NuTrek, because while still different, you could see a lot olf Trek in it. Buy it tells you the golden era for a lot of people are still those shows, TOS-ENT. They all feel distinctly Star Trek no matter how you feel about them personally. And stuff like the Section 31 movie with Adolf, the Starfleet movie and the CW Academy show are highly questionable for a reason. It makes people like me just turn inward again to that era and it’s not going to attract new people no how much they try.
But I give it all a chance and try to think positive about it and hope to be wrong about all three. That’s what true fans do because we still care; just maybe not as much as before.
WRT the S31 film, have the reactions been that bad?
I’m mainly interested because of Michelle Yeoh’s Georgiu character, but, yeah, I think it might be too far afield of what ST is supposed to be.
As far as Lower Decks, I’ve seen 2 premiers and they were funny, but I’m not sure I like a show where every previous production is just fodder for a joke or easter egg.
I’ve been watching Futurama the last couple of months, never watched it before, and I’m loving it. It’s hilarious!
Just wait till you catch up with “Where No Fan Has Gone Before.” It’s Futurama’s love letter to TOS, but more to the point, it’s one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen.
Over 200 now :) .. going back to the old days of 2k comments for the kelvin movies lol
One frame of Lower Decks is better than the entirety of this confusing, artsy tech demo.
The way I see this short film is that maybe this is Gary Mitchell trying to redeem himself by using his powers to get Kirk and Spock to meet one final time before Spock passes. So he somehow plucks Kirk out of Nexus and sends him to Kelvin timeline. Yor is the guidepost who guides Kirk to the Kelvin universe so that Kirk can find his way without losing all of his identities in the process.
so gary plucked him out pre death. to meet dying Spock in the kelvinverse. then returned him to meet with Picard, Kirk wouldnt quite know wtf was going on lol
unless kirk was resurrected somehow post Picard s3 , but then what is gary doing there looking into to something that looks like the Nexus with 2024 CG . maybe his stored body was resurrected by gary via the nexus??
and why would Gary want to help him anyway? unless he felt guilty about it all idk