“Fissure Quest”
Star Trek: Lower Decks Season 5, Episode 9 – Debuted Thursday, December 12, 2024
Written by Lauren McGuire
Directed by Brandon Williams
A wildly entertaining episode jam-packed with canon connections nicely ties up some lingering plot and character threads.
SPOILERS BELOW
How much are we in this episode?
RECAP
“Woah, there’s more than two dimensions?”
The lower deckers are taking a break in the Cerritos bar, contemplating what Brad’s transporter clone William Boimler would be up to if he weren’t dead… which he isn’t. Cut to CAPTAIN William Boimler of the USS Anaximander working for [REDACTED] in “Quantum Reality 582.76-Φ,” on the hunt for whoever is trying to destroy the multiverse by creating all those dimensional fissures we first encountered back in episode 501. He has a who’s who multiverse crew, with a T’Pol XO and Curzon security chief trading barbs and surgeon Garak with his EMH Bashir hubby in a perpetual lovers’ tiff. The rest of the ship is manned by enthusiastic Harry Kims, who are excited to find a new one in an escape pod… and this one has two pips! All this dimension hopping has turned Captain Boimler cynical, assuming the big bad to be some “derivative remix” like “Reverse Picard” or the like, but his mood changes when they rescue the latest rift refugee… a Mariner! And she’s freaking out: “Boims, I think that’s T’Pol!”
Sorry, we don’t have any Tom Parises, but I heard last year there was a guy who looks just like him.
“My Boimler is way chiller than this one.”
After the latest rescues, the Anaximander takes a break. Between barb exchanges, T’Pol shows she clearly cares for Curzon, who seems determined to live life to the fullest and soak up experiences for the Dax symbiont—sodium intake be damned—while the doctor couple argues over which reality they will settle down in once the mission is over. Newly rescued Lt. Kim can’t get over being the only one to ever get promoted, but his brothers seem okay with it. As for the Mariner, she is no danger-loving chaos agent like the one we know, but a great engineer who has figured out how to track the rift maker, which perks up Boimler big time. The captain is super determined to finally end this fissure quest, so they they tech the tech to set a trap and soon enough a rift opens and a weird old ship comes through. Engage! The enemy tries to escape through another rift, both ships get damaged, and they’re forced to land on a bog planet. Exiting the Anaximander, the crew (sans the docs) is confronted by (entirely not-cute) Khwopians who throw them in jail cells where they meet the crew of the ship they were chasing… Vulcans and humans wearing Enterprise-era uniforms? And they are complaining about an “unprovoked attack?” Wait, what?
Do you play “Magic Carpet Ride” on your ship too?
“I’d be happy to never hear the word multiverse again.”
While Lt. Kim grumbles about how he and his brethren are segregated to their own cell, Boimler argues with the other captain, revealed to be… wait for it… a Lily Sloane. She knows nothing of warp drives; instead, she and her Zefram Cochrane invented the “quantum reality drive.” Her “Beagle” is on a multiverse mission of peaceful exploration, avoiding contact due to their own version of the Prime Directive. (So, basically Starfleet.) They had been closing each fissure they created, unaware the ship was simultaneously creating a dangerous additional fissure each time. Oopsie. Boimler realizes his villain quest was really all over a quantum misunderstanding. Right on time, Garak (who is no plain, simple surgeon) shows up with Kurzon’s bat’leth to take out the guards. The crews escape the prison and work to repair the Beagle to get everyone home to the right realities. Captain Sloane breaks through Boimler’s meta-adversity, explaining she has discovered much about what humanity can be across the realities. But before they can become besties, the Beagle unexpectedly takes off without them. Everyone runs to the Anaximander while Curzon relishes in taking out more Kwopians, and they take off to give chase, discovering who stole the Beagle. It’s the Kims!
You can call yourself William, but you are still a Boimler.
“Damn you, two-pip Kim.”
Lt. Kim has definitely taken a dark turn, determined to take the Kims to his universe to rank up, but they aren’t happy he tricked them into this insurrection. Mr. Two Pips ignores Lily’s warning that the unrepaired Beagle is now “a bomb” that could destroy the multiverse, and he opens up a rift. The good guys are too far behind to catch up, but engineer Mariner finds her inner danger-seeker and uses a painful gravity fix so they can micro-jump into the fray. Things on the bridge are also tense as Boimler takes the wheel when Curzon has to be taken to sickbay, fatally wounded by the Kwopians. With no other Trills on board, his genuine friend T’Pol is there to take on the Dax katra as the doctors take a moment to share their love too. On the Beagle, the ensign Kims rise up to fight their crazed lieutenant so he beams them to the Anaximander with a villainous laugh… and then the Beagle blows up. FAAFO, Harry. But the damage has been done and the rift grows, threatening all realities. Lily says a directed soliton burst could direct the damage into a single reality, but how do they pick a universe to endanger? Captain Boimler has the answer: his reality. He trusts his friends Tendi, Mariner, and Rutherford will find a solution. He also sends a message to his counterpart explaining things, which will be fine if Boimler Prime doesn’t freak out… Cut back to the Cerritos bar. “HOLY S—T WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!!” … It’s not “Mr. Worf, fire” but it will have to do for this “To be continued…”
Are we sure this Kim isn’t about to break bad?
REVIEW
Lower Decks didn’t hold back for the season and series finale, throwing in a lot to digest (and savor) in just the first part. The fissure plot set up in the season premiere comes roaring back in a big way, giving the show an opportunity to have a lot of fun with some character returns. It’s almost too much with so many legacy guest stars all at once, making it clear that Mike McMahan and his creative team wanted to go out with a bang. This firehose of fun is somewhat like the previous episode, utilizing the limited time remaining to tell as many little stories as possible. The only downside here is that after a season of focus on character growth, in this episode, like in the previous one, the core lower decker characters had to take a back seat, this time making room for the multiverse of characters. But that is certainly a tradeoff worth having, and we still had strong performances from Jack Quaid as William, who may be jaded but still has the love and friendship of the Boimler we know. And Tawny Newsome showed some range as the nerdy and timid Mariner, capable of saving the day in her own way.
Did Section 31 remember to install the bridge rocks?
While it would have been nice to give some of these canon characters their own episodes (like Brent Spiner’s return as purple Data earlier this season), the supersized two-part finale was still able give some of the guest stars and their characters their own little moments and arcs. It was wonderful for Jolene Blalock to come out of retirement to play this T’Pol and her connection to the other old soul on board, Curzon, was reminiscent of the respect and chemistry between DS9’s Quark and Odo. Speaking of that classic show, they really went there with Garak and Bashir as Andy Robinson and Alexander Siddig relished in fulfilling so many shipper dreams. Sure, there are elements of fan service to this and talk of T’Pol’s marriage to (a clearly not dead) Trip, but the laughs and heart of how it was all delivered was well earned. The standout legacy performance was Garrett Wang, challenged to play multiple Harry Kims and making us believe that the one that actually got promoted was actually the baddie—although it would have been nice to get a tiny bit of backstory to explain what in his universe put him on the villain path.
If you start demanding bloodwine, I’ll know it’s too much Dax katra.
The biggest surprise was Alfre Woodard’s return as an alternate version of her First Contact character, but again, the little we got was more than a cameo. It was a clever twist making her and the Beagle the inadvertent adversaries of the seasons, helping subvert reasonable fan theories that Section 31 Boimler was going to be the big bad. Instead, he channeled showrunner Mike McMahan’s frustrations with over-used multiverse storytelling and found a way to love all the dimensional possibilities, again with help from Woodard’s thoughtful performance as Lily. And unlike the previous episode, the multiverse plot was actually compelling, even as McMahan poked plenty of fun with jabs at hacky storylines and talk of “Neelix with a crew cut.”
Do you have an Archer? Did you name this ship in honor of his dog?
Thankfully CBS Studios and Paramount gave the team the resources they needed to go long with this episode (and apparently part 2 of the finale as well), as there was so much story to tell. Given the regular runtime, it could have just felt like a cavalcade of cameos, but the episode still had room for both heartfelt moments and fun little nods, like Garak talking about being a tailor in some universes, or the Kims comparing Tuvix stories. After some bottle episodes this season, we can see how they really spent wisely as this episode looked fantastic with well-paced action, plenty of new characters, ships, and even an away mission planet (with evil Khwopians, no less)… and it’s only part one.
Wait, isn’t Section 31 evil?
Final thoughts
Saying goodbye to Lower Decks is going to be hard, but if this is how the show is going out, it’s going out in style.
All of your Janeways murdered poor Tuvix?
RANDOM BITS
- The episode runtime is 28:27, making it the third longest of the series behind the season 4 finale (30:10) and season 2 finale (29:27).
- Jolene Blalock is credited as just “Jolene” in her first screen credit since 2017. Showrunner Mike McMahan explained on social media this was at her request.
- The Anaximander is named for the ancient Greek philosopher who contemplated the origins of the universe.
- New Rutherford oculus function: plasma beam (but it’s not supposed to do that).
T’Pol misses having real buttons and dials instead of all these touch screens.
Easter eggs and more to come
We will take a deeper dive into “Big Spock” and all the Easter eggs and canon connections this weekend and will discuss this episode on Friday’s All Access Podcast.
New episodes of Star Trek: Lower Decks premiere on Thursdays, streaming on Paramount+ in the U.S., Canada, Latin America, and Europe. Lower Decks also airs on Thursdays in Canada on CTV Sci-Fi Channel.
Keep up with all the news and reviews from the new Star Trek Universe on TV at TrekMovie.com.
Ah that’s what a breath of fresh air feels like!! No big bad. No vendetta. Great episode!
Just like Prodigy S2, Lower Decks is doing Star Trek better than the live action installments as of late. Capt. Sloane talking about exploration was pure Gene Roddenberry in how it spoke to humanity’s potential.
That speech by Sloane was great. Again, LDS doesn’t get enough credit but it really does try to highlight the best in humanity just like the other shows.
Yeah. Anyone who says this isn’t a proper Star Trek show can’t be taken seriously when it delivers moments like that. And it’s not an isolated one.
[scrolls down] I’m going to enjoy reading this. [scrolls back up]
Isn’t this roughly the same plot as the Coda trilogy/Star Trek Litverse finale? Anyway – fun. The Garak-Bashir runner was worth the price of admission.
I’d say Prodig’ys season 2 was more like Coda than this was.
Yeah that was because one of the writers for Coda wrote for Prodigy
So with 9 of 10 episodes released i can say that this season has been a bit more enjoyable than S3/S4.
I really enjoyed the first 2 seasons of Lower Decks but from S3 to today’s episode i found the show to not be as funny or entertaining. As it feels like the show has lost it’s charm so to speak.
Honestly to me this season feels like the writers ran out of idea’s and just quickly threw together a bunch of stories and hoped it worked out but so far didn’t. But it does depend on the last episode to see if the season hits the landing.
As for this episode i found it the best of the season and it was great to see T’pol again and great seeing Garak and Bashir(even as a EMH) but also seeing them in a relationship was cool.
Even in DS9 you could tell there was something between Garak and Bashir. If only the DS9 writers were brave enough to follow that direction in the show but the Network at the time probably wouldn’t let them to do a gay romance.
Glad Trek today is now allowed to show without fear full representation for the LGBT community.
Really happy you enjoyed it Christopher!
Ira Steven Behr admitted in the DS9 documentary that they don’t do a good job there, so I agree—glad that we got what we got with the penultimate of LDS!
I still cannot believe they got the goddess herself, Jolene Blalock, to return. They must’ve backed up a shuttlecraft full of Vulcan work units to coax her into the recording booth, because boy oh boy was she ever pissed about the way that ENT ended. So thank you Jolene, thank you so much for coming back! (and Andrew and Alexander and Garrett, and oh my God, Alfre too!!)
There’s a part of me that wonders if Blalock secretly enjoyed the fact that T’Pol featured more heavily in the LDS finale than the LDS characters — just as Riker featured more heavily in the ENT finale than the ENT characters. Ah, the irony.
Ive seen a few people really praising season 1 and that’s so interesting to me, since for me it’s clear the peak of the show is seasons 2 and 3. Ultimately I’d put season 1 at the bottom, though that’s all relative since I still put S1 above most modern live action Trek seasons. That being said, I’d agree this season is above S4.
Funny I would put this season below season 4 and until the last few episodes it was turning into my least favorite season to be honest. For me, I think season 2 is still my favorite but loved season 1 as well. I haven’t hated any of them, they have all been good, but not all amazing.
I think that season 4 was nice, but season 5 in nearly all of the past episodes I didn’t like it. But this penultimate episode was amazing
Yeah this season I can say probably had the least liked episodes for me as well. But this episode has basically made up for all of those lol.
Yeah, that thing between Bashir and Garak? It’s called friendship.
It doesn’t and wasn’t played more than that.
It was absolutely played more than that. That has been directly stated by Andrew Robinson and Alexander Siddig DECADES ago.
Who Cares, I think Rocketscienetist is referring to how the show played it, not how the actors head canon informed how they performed scenes.
They are different things. Now if this was Steart & Spiner during the TNG films, or Stewart in all of Picard, or Shatner and Nimoy during TOS films, then they had the ability to not use head canon but to actually make changes to dialogue, scenes and character arcs for their characters. Neither Siddig or Robinson had any such ability during DS9. All they had was their own head canon and how they played scenes. But regardless the producers took those scenes and crafted stories of friendship from them. Those officially its played as friendship.
In fact in reminds me of the fear that Visitor had that the writers/producers were playing scenes as romantic tension between Kira and Dukat (on both characters parts) up through mid part of season 5). In much the same way I was really fearing a romantic development officially between Bashir and Garek. Not because it’s two people from the same gender (I am all for that), but because how much of a dark individual Garek is just as Dukat is also. And for modern audiences why I have such hesitation on seeing the Empress being a lead character for a tv film or series. And the fear that such acts would sanitize their horrific deeds.
I don’t agree with any of that. When I watched the show in original airing the subtext between Garak and Bashir was entirely obvious to my teenage eyes, and quite clearly to everyone else, which is why the very idea has persisted for 30 years now.
#GarashirFTW
It’s funny but I just wrote in a post I never caught that at all myself when the show originally aired. Like others said, I just saw it strictly as a friendship. But it wasn’t until What We Left Behind that Robinson talked about it that I realized it. Ever since then, I can’t unsee it lol.
But yes, subtext is a thing in story telling. Some people will pick up on things that others won’t, especially when it’s not spelled out directly. So both can be right.
Where? I’ve seen Andrew Robinson say he played Garak as gay, not that he was romantically interested in Bashir.
I can totally see Garak as being gay, but Bashir was always chasing Dax and other women.
Umm, Bisexual people exist, or Pansexual. Frankly Garak is pan, Bashir is Bi. It’s clear as day, always was.
It is? I can’t recall an instance where Bashir was pursuing a man.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
And, actually, I can’t recall Garak pursuing anyone, although it looked like he showed some interest in Dukat’s daughter Zayal.
Helluva episode!!
This was a damn good episode!!!
Great review! It was so good to hear each of those legendary voices again. And it’s surprisingly touching that each of those actors agreed to return to the Trek family. Thank you to all who gave this gift to us Star Trek fans.
You have to wonder how much groveling McMahan did to get some of these actors back. It’s crazy Alfrie Woodard would ever be on this show lol.
Frakes knew her from way way back, something like 4 years pre-TNG, so maybe he had something to do with it.
Wow awesome. I never knew that! And my mother is a huge fan of hers. She was almost willing to even watch First Contact when she heard she was in it but that was still going a bit too far lol.
Why? She was in The Grey Man for Netflix not long ago, she isn’t retired.
I was just joking that someone at her stature would appear in an animated comedy she probably never even heard of until she was asked to do it.
No complaints from me, it was absolutely a treat to have her back in Star Trek. I don’t think any of us ever expected she would be back.
I’m pretty sure she knew about the show well before being hired. The show has won multiple awards for several years.
Plus she has been doing voice acting since 1994, and was also on Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur this year. She has clearly kept her hand in genre work with her fantastic primary villain role in Marvel’s Luke Cage series as well, so yeah as long as she isn’t retired I would not be at all surprised to see her in pretty much anything.
I agree that it is really great to get her back in Trek, now if only Christian Kane would join his former castmates (and production crew members) Rebecca Romjin, Lindy Booth, Aldis Hodge, Jeri Ryan, Armin Shimmerman, Brent Spiner, Will Wheaton, Jonathan Frakes, and many more in Star Trek.
I certainly hope that’s true. And everyone should be watching this show lol.
And I had to look up Christian Kane. I have never seen Stargate. I assume that’s what you’re referring to.
Actually no. I first saw Christain Kane in Angel, he was the evil lawyer at Wolfram & Hart, Lindsey was his name. “Face” antagonist for like 3 seasons. Then I saw him as Elliot Spencer in Leverage, with Aldis Hodge (Short Trek Calypso) as hacker Hardison, whose arch rival was evil hacker Kaos played by Will Wheaton. Jeri had a recurring role for 2 season, Frakes directed a lot, and Armin and Spiner guest starred. Then Kane was in The Librarians with Rebecca (now Una in SNW) and Lindy Booth (SNW Lift Us Where Sorrow Cannot Reach). Frakes was also heavily involved. Most of the above have appeared in the Leverage revival series as well.
What solidified my fandom for Kane was an outtake from filming of Leverage where he is holding a Commander Riker action figure and yelling. “This is my favorite Director!”. Plus an episode of Leverage featuring John Schneider as the episode villain, and a song that Kane wrote and recorded himself, he is also a singer songwriter, self named band. Great album IMO.
Oh and just because my nephew loves it, Kane was the young version of one of the great-uncles in Secondhand Lions.
She was always fond of that role. Saw her in Salem’s Lot recently and was sad she was wasted in her role there. Trek has managed to do right by her again!
I know she did love playing that role. I have seen her interviews talking about it. Now I’m wondering has she ever done a Star Trek convention? Maybe a few back in the day when the movie was happening.
And I heard pretty bad things about Salem’s Lot. Another Star Trek actor, William Saddler, who played Sloan of course is also in it. Was going to give a chance but doesn’t sound worth it.
Alfre Woodward is a very well respected and talented actress.
It was a real coup for Jonathan Frakes to get both her and James Cromwell for Star Trek: First Contact.
I’d argue that Cromwell was less of a “coup” for Frakes since First Contact wasn’t his first time in Trek.
That Episode was amazing! It felt like an actual fresh take on the multiverse. And I appreciate that that they used the Hawking/Mlodinov analogy with the Bubbles to explain it.
Why are we cancelling this show? Get rid of SNW. Don’t do that S31 movie or the Academy show no one cares about but give me more of this.
Yeah this episode was great!!
It’s a shame the losers ar Paramount + is canceling it. They have a fans adore and it can’t cost that much to make.
I hope McMahan can find a way to take it somewhere else. This show deserves 7 seasons minimum.
……and a movie!
I refuse to accept this is the end of Lower Decks. I really hope they can do a live action or animated movie. I truly enjoyed this episode. Happy and surprised to see T’Pol, Harry, Garak, Bashir, and Lily all together in one episode!
Same Jay. As someone once said, I don’t want the game to end. McMahan shows he has tons of more stories up his sleeve and I hope they figure out a way to keep it going on some level.
I was so against this show before their premiere. Now it feels so strange we will only have one more episode. They have this wonderful Galaxy Quest and Guardians of the Galaxy vibes…I refuse to accept this is the end for this creative success.
That is so true! I wasn’t ‘against’ the show before it aired, but I was very skeptical of it like a lot of people. I thought it was going to just be too outlandish and make fun of Star Trek. And it obviously does poke fun of the nuttier things the show does but it always does it in a loving way and I think that’s how it won so many people over…at least for me.
But this show should’ve been a disaster lol. As we’ve seen, animated Star Trek unfortunately doesn’t have the best record and being the first comedy was already questionable since many fans perceive Trek as ‘serious’. Fortunately it surprised many of us.
And like DS9 before it, it proved Trek can do different things and be just as accepted as TOS and TNG is today.
The fact so many people are pushing for it to continue says a lot about both the show and the fanbase today.
the 70s TAS was not bad under the circumstances but LDs is really the first ST animated show since that time.
I was really talking about how fast the animated shows gotten canceled since both TAS and Prodigy only got to two seasons and Prodigy was originally canceled after its first and TAS was canceled after 6 episodes in second season. LDS is the only one that has defied the odds so far.
Can’t comment on TAS only seen an episode and yeah it felt and looked cheap even if the stories themselves were good so not surprised it was canceled so soon.
But I’ve always said I expected LDS to be canceled after its first or second season. I really didn’t think this would have much of an audience. And I said that before and after it started airing.
So it feels so heartwarming to see it go even this long lol. And even though it’s canceled look how much fans are rallying behind it now. It’s at the same level fans pushed for more Prodigy and I understood why people were upset about that one.
But I can’t be too upset about it, five seasons is a pretty good run for streaming shows these days. And I suspect this isn’t really the end, just maybe not more seasons.
We’ll definitely see them again. One thing Trek tells us time and time again none of these characters are gone forever.
Maybe the show itself won’t continue but they will find ways to bring them back because it’s been made very clear now they’ve all become very popular in the fanbsse.
And the reaction everyone is having seeing T’Pol back, even in just animated form and not even from the same universe proves these characters popularity only grows the longer they are away.
I said the day Picard was announced that people should expect every legacy character to show up at some point. Five years later and literally 2/3rds of them have returned.
I don’t expect any difference with all the characters from all the new movies and shows eventually.
For LDS, the bigger question is are they talking bringing them back in something in the near future? Fingers crossed.
Futurama came back from cancellation with a series of movies. Maybe LD could too.
Given the quality of those Futurama movies (and the ensuing Comedy Central and Hulu episodes), I’d rather it end next week then meander about aimlessly and poorly. I hate to see LDS go as much as the next person, but I still insist there’s something to be said for going out on top.
Wow those sound bad. Never got into Futurama but I know how popular it is, especially with Trek fans.
I’ve recently gotten into Futurama. It is truly hilarious. I recommend giving it a try.
I have said in the past I have never really been into adult animated shows. For some reason, they just don’t do it for me, which is why it’s a shock I even like Lower Decks lol. I thought I would maybe watch 2 or 3 episodes of it and then move on because I didn’t think it would reach me at all.
But I know it’s a good show. I may give it a try at some point.
Can’t say I disagree. Futurama’s 4th season ends so well, there are only a scant few episodes later on that felt worthwhile. So many shows when they come back after even a short absence and with the same creatives just do not have the same mojo.
And that’s why you never promote Ensign Kim.
So much packed into this one. Will need several rewatches to catch everything.
I’m generally unimpressed by stunt casting or a bunch of cameos for the sake of cameos. But Lower Decks being what it is as a show, they made it fun and entertaining as always.
Knowing how big a Trekker Tawny Newsome is IRL, the genuine excitement in her voice when she freaks out about seeing T’Pol on the bridge is fun to hear. (And am I wrong, or has Jolene generally avoided Star Trek fandom, conventions, interviews, etc.? A delightful surprise to hear her return to the character here. I wonder if it was difficult to convince her to do it?)
Lily showing up was definitely a surprise. Lots of love for First Contact in this series as we already had James Cromwell return as a version of Zephram Cochrane back in season 3.
The sadness is going to be real next week after I finish watching the final episode.
Jolene Blalock did not enjoy her time on Enterprise. After the show ended she flatly did not go to conventions for quite a few years because she felt she had been exploited by the franchise. She full on retired from acting not long after.
It has only been in the last few years that she started attending a limited number of events. Getting her to come out of retirement for this show is such a surprise, and I personally hope she shows up on SNW too.
As someone who didn’t watch it. Who solved everything, Boimler or Mariner?
If I tell you it was Boimler, will you quit whining like a spoiled little troll?
Warning for trolling
Great episode! Garak + Bashir was perfect! The couple that should have always been. What fun. Thanks, Lower Decks team <3
It was a joy to see T’Pol, Garak, and Bashir back in action, and the army of Kims.
This show is very good at subverting plot tropes, like that it was a malevolent force opening the fissures. Lily Sloane was a character who always deserved more screen time, and now she finally got it.
As unimpressed as I am by Lower Decks, anything that validates Enterprise has some worth to me.
Everyone seems to be raving about having T’Pol back, you don’t have to worry about that.
Now how can we get her in SNW and SFA???
Starfleet Academy is set in the 32nd century. Vulcans have a long lifespan but 1000 years is a bit much.
People have suggested they can bring back certain characters via holograms or the holodeck. And since it’s a school it will be easy to justify why they would be around.
Yeah, that’s what I was implying with T’Pol or any character from the previous centuries if they showed up on SFA. But it’s cool the Doctor is one of the rare few who could still be around.
Ok fair point, hadn’t thought of that.
While we’re at it, let’s have a hologram of Henry V teach archery; he can do it better than Tuvok, surely.
Hey why not? And we have already seen Starfleet officers interacting with historical figures from Leonardo Da Vinci to Albert Einstain in the holodeck.
But is there any need to teach archery to Starfleet officers in the 32nd century? 😉
That has been my hope since they first arrived in the 32nd Century.
Same
This episode was phenomenal! Just a fun (and per usual with Lower Decks) heartwarming story that made me smile the entire way through. The characters who showed up in this were all surprising minus Harry Kim(s) of course. But I loved all of them. I think T’Pol was easily my favorite and Jolene Blalock hasn’t missed a step. But EMH Bashir and Garek being married was hilarious and I’m sure all those shippers were happy to see that.
And I loved how much they subverted expectations with this episode. I think I speak for nearly everyone and thought William Boimler was going to be bad since he worked for Section 31 but was the complete opposite. And this was the first time we seen Section 31 in a purely good light. And even the people we thought causing the fissures were doing it for a nefarious purpose and they weren’t. Once again, this show doesn’t get enough credit for how smart the writing is a lot of times. And it took me a few seconds to realize that it was Lily Sloane. WOW! That gave me the biggest smile of all.
I have been pretty up and down with this season to be honest, but it’s going out with a bang and the last few episodes has reminded me why I love this show so much. I know there are still many dissenters of the modern era out there that think this new era of Trek has lost its way (the melt down over the Section 31 trailer is a good example lol). Or that it’s not at the level of the classic shows, TOS-ENT. But at least for me, episodes like this proves the complete opposite and that it has the same heart, Intelligence, optimism and thoughtfulness of the show I have been watching since the 70s. Lower Decks is a breath of fresh air and it belongs in the same conversation as those other shows.
Really can’t wait for the conclusion!
Also, I’m pretty sure this is the most crossover of shows and movies the franchise has ever had in one story. Usually it’s just two shows or movies crossing over but they took advantage of the multiverse angle and went all out. All the properties represented:
-Lower Decks (duh)
-Enterprise
-Voyager
-TNG/First Contact
-Deep Space Nine
Sadly no one from TOS, but obviously that’s getting harder to do now. But this is the most characters DS9 has shown up in a story in the modern era. T’Pol is only the second Enterprise character to show up in the modern era after Daniels in Discovery and the first main character. As for Voyager, now that Harry Kim has shown up, only three main characters haven’t appeared anywhere yet with B’Elanna, Neelix and Kes. I would love to see all three of them but I don’t expect we’ll ever see Kes unfortunately.
It would’ve been nice if we actually got a character from one of the newer shows though. It would’ve been great to get a Discovery, SNW or even a Prodigy appearance. A character from the Kelvin timeline would’ve been REALLY great, especially since it’s literally dealing with the multiverse. That would’ve been another big surprise and show those characters some love again.
Not complaining of course, I’m just a fanboy who loves it when they do stuff like this.
They may be saving some of these for next week.
Yes, great point!
I hope not.
Can you elaborate? You don’t want any of the new shows or movies to appear or just don’t want anymore legacy characters in general?
Actually thinking about it a bit more, it’s now tied with Prodigy’s episode Kobayashi. At first I only considered it as four crossovers of shows with TOS, TNG, and DS9 holodeck versions of the characters along with Prodigy. But I didn’t count Voyager since we actually saw Chakotay in that episode and naturally holographic Janeway. So that makes five crossovers too like LDS.
Of course they are mostly just holodeck characters in that episode but everyone shown in LDS mostly came from different universes too and not the original characters so it evens out IMO.
Also interesting how both episodes didn’t have a single character who appeared in both of them. Just a reminder how vast the Star Trek universe is…and getting.
One person’s vast is another person’s “overstuffed.”
The universe is now 60 years old with over 900 stories and counting in multiple centuries and universes. It’s vast for a reason.
It’s really incredible to see all the crossovers in this one episode and how great it was done. Everyone got their moments to shine and we managed to learn a little something new about all of them. Of course they were all from a different universe I guess that’s a given haha.
People always complain about Star Trek having too much fun service. I will never understand it? As long as it’s done right and honor the characters that are part of it, it’s a win-win. Look how much people are praising this episode. What was the last time people praised an episode this much? It was TOS from SNW. The last time after that? It was the Picard season 3 finale.
When it’s done well fans rejoice and we’re not just whining about how much they are messing Trek up for a change.
I think you meant ‘fan’ service but it is kind of the same meaning. ;D
And yeah if it works well, then it works. I understand people are worried it makes the universe feel too small, but let’s be real, we’re already way past that now when we have a Khan descendant on the Enterprise and the Doctor showing up in the 32nd century.
And TPTB does it because they know how well fans respond to it. Season two of Discovery made that point very clear when Pike and Spock showed up and now they have their own show. I remember how excited everyone got when the Enterprise showed up in Discovery’s first season finale just like how excited people were when the Enterprise D finally showed up on Picard. People love their comfort food, especially after eating if for 50 years.
And crossovers are fun. They were some of the most memorable episodes during the Berman era and not surprisingly here too. And I think LDS balances them out very well. This is only our second episode with legacy characters this season. The first one was Data, which surprise, surprise people loved too. But McMahan knew he was going to go all out with the last two episodes so it feels like a real treat. If we saw one every episode this season then people would’ve shrugged by the time we got here.
I certainly agree they shouldn’t rely on it like a crutch, but if we get great stories out of it and see our favorite characters in a new light (as this episode did extremely well), then go for it.
Lol I did.
But that’s exactly what I mean, the stuff fans seem to love and appreciate the most are the things we grew to love in the first place. I just don’t understand why that’s a bad thing when done right?
I know some look at it cynically (“I KNOW WHAT THAT IS!!!”), but I don’t see it that way at all. To me it’s a shared experience as fans who all grew up loving most of these characters and stories. Something we all have collected experience together even if we have different views on a lot of it. But it’s like meeting an old friend you haven’t seen for years and just excited to catch up again.
That’s what fandom is, appreciating those characters you have watched for years and decades. No one is suggesting you can’t meet and appreciate other new characters just like you meet and appreciate different people all through your real life. But you will always have a special place for people who had the most influence when you were younger and shared the most rime with. Sure some eventually do move on, others you keep in touch the rest of your life.
It’s no different than how you view the characters you love in any medium. That’s why we watch our favorite episodes or movies dozens of times. We all love the sense of returning to our favorite moments. Everything we love eventually becomes nostalgic. That’s not a bad thing, that’s simply how we perceive the beat parts of our lives, especially during our wirst times in our life.
Dude, this post is almost profound lol. I don’t think I could’ve stated it any better. The things we remember or influenced us the most fondly are the things that never go away; because we constantly return to it again and again. That is both nostalgia and fandom in a nutshell.
And that’s also how it works, that it goes in cycles. The kids (like me) who grew up watching Kirk and Spock first have the same level of nostalgia like the kids who grew up with Picard and Data later and then the kids who grew up with Janeway and Tuvok. And in another decade it will be Burnham and Saru. And then Mariner and Boimler and on and on. All those characters will be around the next 30 years just like all the characters in the classic era are still around and isn’t going anywhere.
That’s what is fascinating about it, we all love the thing we usually started watching first and the rest eventually comes through as we learn to love and appreciate those. TOS is not my favorite show anymore, but it will always be the one I will be the most fond of because that’s the show that started it for me and shaped a lot of my memories as a kid.
But that’s how nostalgia works, it’s something none of us want to let go because of how happy it made us feel thinking back to it. Look at all the complaints some people have about these new shows. The question gets asked over and over again if they hate it so much, why do they still watch it? Because it still has that connection to the shows they did actually love decades ago and they DESPERATELY want that feeling back. And that’s why we have all these legacy characters now because the people making these shows are now trying to fill that void to keep those people watching. It doesn’t always work obviously, especially when people perceive it’s being done wrong, but it always gets everyone’s attention just the same.
Of course, a lot of times it just feels like a cynical and corporate ploy by Hollywood studios who knows bringing back a popular character will get more views or merchandising dollars. But that’s been the case for literally over 60 years now when someone came to that realization that if you bring back a character in another movie, more people will go see that movie. It used to just be sequels that they relied on to fill that itch, now it’s turned into prequels, reboots and remakes as many of these characters or properties have gotten much older and they find new ways to reinvent them for both old and new fans. And Star Trek has literally done all of this multiple times now.
And we just got the Unification short film which really sums all this up completely and yes, in TIME, maybe another new way forward for these characters in the long term but that is a different discussion.
But that’s exactly why I never doubted eventually we would see all these characters again. As long as they keep making Star Trek they will reinvent these characters. Kirk, Spock, Janeway, Sisko, Data, Archer and on and on will all be around as long as there is Star Trek. Yes, maybe the original actors will have moved on (and some already have until McMahan gives them a ring lol) but the characters themselves will stay part of the ethos; especially as new fans finds them. I had a great conversation with someone on Reddit who seemed almost emotional T’Pol was back. She’s 25 years old and was born the year Enterprise started and that was her first show as a fan and T’Pol is her favorite character. She never thought she would see her again.
Of course it’s crazy they got her back but in a few more decades someone new will eventually play T’Pol because at some point the character will live beyond the actor as we are seeing with the TOS characters now. Yes we will sadly probably never see Avery Brooks play Sisko again, but they just put out a new comic book of the character literally show weeks ago for a show that ended over 25 years now. That character will outlive Brooks as it will all of us regardless if he returns or not. Because that character still draws millions of people who first watched him back in the 90s as all the others.
So for people yelling it’s too much fan service and nostalgia, they are probably not wrong, but Star Trek as an entity is essentially that in itself now; especially for anyone who’s been watching it for over twenty years.
You stated it pretty elegantly yourself there. Everyone that stays with something long enough starts looking at it in a nostalgic way. I remember looking at the opening credits of SNW and it immediately brought me back to Voyager although I know for most people it’s supposed to mimic TOS. But TOS only does the fly by in the opening, the way the Enterprise explores planets and other phenomena clearly came from Voyager because it was the first one to do it.
Sorry got distracted and didn’t finish my thoughts.
But the SNW comparison is also nostalgia playing on different levels and depennding on what show brought you in first as you said.
And that is another good point that even though we identify characters with the actors, eventually the characters just becomes it’s own persona. This is very common in comics and video games obviously but every time a new actor plays Batman I usually accept them as much as the old one. But Michael Keaton was the first one I saw on screen and will probably always be my favorite. Younger people it might be Christian Bale or even Ben Affleck but Batman is always Batman regardless who plays him.
And that’s probably another reason why I don’t see nostalgia as a bad thing because I used to collect comics and those have always reinvented old characters over again. No one ever said there would be more Spiderman stories just because they made other new characters, they simply continue to exist in the same universe.
Comic book fans actually accept change more than any other fandom out there because we are use to seeing our favorite characters modified and change but we still look at them as the same.
There is another Superman movie coming next year, no one is calling it more fan service or nostalgia when that’s exactly what it is. But for some reason that’s OK. You never hear DC or MCU fans complaining they just keep characters back.
Life is all about revisiting old friends and family as they age, while meeting new people and going on new adventures. It’s the same for everyone you meet along the way on their own journeys. So I’ve never understood why it should be verboten to revisit legacy Trek characters, so long as it’s in service of something new. They aren’t preserved in amber, they can move on and we have every right to be invested in that.
Lower Decks and Picard season 3 with their new characters fit the bill for me, so an episode like this is nothing but delightful to me.
Exactly! And fictional characters are literally timeless, so they can always be around and as universes gets older and new characters come on the scene, the old characters still have a place and start to have a new relationship with those characters and you see both of them growing in the process just like ral life.
As I mentioned to Tiger2, this is very common in comics books. Old characters change and interact with new ones but that’s what makes it exciting to see how Batman is with Dick Grayson, but then later on with Jason Todd or later Tim Drake. These are the various Robin’s introduced in the comics. We see different versions of them and it’s interesting to watch how Batman interacts with each one.
So to see Boimler interacting with Spock in SNW is an interesting experience but very different from how Picard interacted with him on TNG and of course neither of those is close to how he interacted with Kirk in TOS because you’re seeing different actors, time periods and various shows all converging together over 50 years but everyone accepts it and now you included these new characters to interact with him and see different approaches of the character.
I think that’s great to see and for most people we gat a different variation.
You are missing a few Robins. Stephanie Brown, Damien Wayne, Duke Thomas, Carrie Kelly.
I was just giving some examples for the normies. ;)
And it is funny how most people have no clue there are more than one Robins out there. It would be nice to see more versions in future movies.
Agreed. Besides I know I missed a few, like Legends of the Dead Earth had at least 3.
Until I read this post I had no idea there were other Robins so I guess you’re right.
I just recently learned there has been other Batman’s outside of Bruce Wayne too. This is exactly why comic book characters can go for eons when you can constantly reinvent them..
Heh, I can think of 1 Batman whose real name is unknown but can’t be Bruce Wayne because he lives in the 853rd Century. The storyline was “DC One Million” which was set “1 million months” in the future from the year of publication. Because comics are monthly lol.
It was pretty wild, downloadable superpowers, cities built in tesseract pocket dimensions, all kinds of stuff.
Tucker and Neelix appeared in a Very Short Trek last year.
True, I was just counting canon stories. But a return is a return, agreed.
It hit me not that long ago but for people like me who wanted to see Section 31 (and the new movie) go farther with the concept and see it explore the multiverse, oddly enough we got it with this show. It’s so cool Section 31 is now recruiting people from different universes to protect the even bigger threats out there.
This is not a subtle dig to knock the movie (and to be fair we still don’t truly know what it’s about) but I would say that was my biggest disappointment and I wanted something a bit more ambitious like we just got on LDS. When I thought it was going to be a show, I thought that was the way to go, or at least part of the show.
Of course it’s OK if we never got this angle, I just liked the idea personally. And because Star Trek obviously had Temporal Agents like Daniels and the DTI whose job it is to protect against time travelers doing nefarious thing (although they could be doing a better job at it), it would make sense there would be an organization that tried to stop people from invading other universes too. Nero made that point evident in dealing with both time travel and universe hopping.
So I really love this angle they came up with. I just wish we got it more directly in live action.
Anyway, just my random thoughts.
You said it my friend! This is Section 31 done in a different and refreshing way. And yet it’s actually following Section 31 canon unlike the Adolf/Discovery mess that has made it eye rolling bad.
Although I think it’s hilarious how much Boimler hates the multiverse. This guy is in his 30s and he has already seen everything to the point he’s now bored. 😅
But for viewers it’s really exciting. We seen multiverse like the Kelvin and Mirror universes, but this more on a Parrallels type of level where they are trqveling through many variations. It would be fun to see more of them; especially with McMahan’s creative view of the universe.
This is why they should be trying to hold on to people like him and Matalas. They get it and yet they couldn’t be anymore different from each other.
It’s so sad both of their shows are gone.
That’s when you know you been in Starfleet too long, when even exploring other universes got you checking your watch lol.
And I know other people have felt a bit tired over the multiverse concept in popular entertainment these days but you can still make it feel new and fresh. And it’s something Star Trek has rarely tapped into outside of the MU of course. And in the Kelvin universe, it wasn’t really explored at all, just mostly a plot device so we can have a different version of Kirk and Spock who can go a different direction than their TOS counterparts. And that is part of the problem of the concept when you’re just meeting the 25th version of Riker. Yeah that does eventually get old but it can obviously be so much more than that. Lily said it best in this episode, to see every potential of humanity. That is Star Trek through and through.
And another thing has kind of hit me about Section 31, but many people have also wanted someone like Bashir to run it because he would (in theory anyway) put on a more honorable organization where they try to protect the Federation in a more lawful and co-operative way. And that’s exactly how this group feels. Yeah Garak Is there lol but they come off like upstanding people which we are rarely used to seeing in Section 31. I don’t pretend this one is completely clean since they are still doing things behind people’s backs but it is nice to see a different side for a change.
And that’s why, once again, it’s easy to do things when you are going forward in the timeline and in this period Section 31 actually could be working together with Starfleet if someone made it more legit. Sloan’s gone so there is a chance to do something different. In Discovery it just didn’t make any sense Starfleet had any direct connection to them given the time period.
And yeah it is a bit depressing we are losing some great show runners. But I wouldn’t count either of them completely out yet either. I think both still have a chance of coming back to do other things.
Fascinating (to coin a phrase) that it takes an animated sometimes parody of Trek to get Section 31 back to where Weddle and Thompson had it when they created it in season 6 of DS9. For me, this Discovery-verse Section 31 is just more of the same “it’s good to be bad” mustache-twirling tomfoolery that ruined the mirror universe (love DS9 as I do, but as they explored the mirror universe, it became more arch and camp than Jerome Bixby’s original “what if” tale had intended back in 1967/1968).
Well, I’ve said enough for someone to accuse me of gatekeeping.
Yes so true although I wouldn’t classify it as a parody but I get your point.
I’m just going to say it, but McMahan gets the pulse of Star Trek more than some of the other people working on it and more the way the fans do because he was obviously a fan like we were. And he’s also a gifted writer. But yes, because it’s a ‘comedy’ some people write both him and the show off but everything about Lower Decks rings true to all the previous shows, it simply looks at things in a comedic or exaggerated level.
T’Lyn was a fan favorite out of the gate because he captured the essence of Vulcans rigidness precisely and T’Lyn is considered a ‘rule breaker’ in Vulcan society like Mariner is in human society. Maybe if the character was on TNG or VOY it wouldn’t work as well but she works great in a comedy. And the fact she is so dead pan is the joke. This has happened with most Vulcan characters at times like Spock and Tuvok, but she is the ultimate straight person being next to very zany characters. And it is great how they find ways to elicit laughs from her as well. I laughed so hard when she and her alternate version were intrigued one said ‘fascinating’ while the other said ‘remarkable’. I could not stop laughing. But only Trek fans would find it remotely funny lol.
McMahan takes things we are all very attune to and turns them on their ear in a fun way but doesn’t to the point it feels false. His version of Section 31 is different but it still adheres to what we know about the group. And that’s when it’s great when it adds to what we know and not subtract or replace it like I feel they did with Discovery’s version.
Parody was a bad choice of words… a “lighter approach” then? I still struggle with this show, as wonderful as it is, being canon, but that’s my issue, not anyone else’s.
No worries and I seen others describe it as a parody as well
And sounds like you gave it a chance, all you can ask for
If that’s true, it’s only because “some of the other people working on it” these days set an absurdly low standard.
I certainly hope you’re right. It’s really a shame after all the division NuTrek has made over the years we finally got show runners that most fans seem to appreciate even if not everyone is a fan and now they are gone. Matalas especially was just getting started.
But I get things changes and open to whoever makes new Star Trek. I never heard of either one before and now big fans of theirs.
And good point about this Section 31. Many fans hate the organization but they also just like to see it more legit too. Of course that takes away it’s mystique but many do feel it just goes against what Star Trek is so it’s tricky.
But based on all the reactions to the movie trailer that’s certainly isn’t winning any hearts and minds lol. That thing is hated. Not sure you’re on Reddit but if you are, look up the trailer post, set the comments to new or old and just scan the first 100 posts. If you find 10 that says anything positive things about it then that’s about as as it gets.
I’ll say it again, the movie itself might be great but if it’s as bad as the trailer suggests they are going to rip it apart on a level of Picard season 2 and those trailers were awesome lol.
Oh yeah, I not only read that Reddit thread, you probably came across several of my posts too and mine weren’t the positives ones either lol.
I don’t want to make this thread about the Section 31 movie, but it did come at a weird time we got this episode. I don’t blame people for just being honest about it because as many have said, very few people wanted a Section 31 project in the first place. That needs to be said a lot lol. And then when they give us something most don’t want and it doesn’t even look the actual thing on top of it, it’s not a shock people are reacting to it they way they are. This is STID all over again, but at least that movie looked like freaking Star Trek, just the Khan version didn’t. I’m not sure how the people who makes this stuff doesn’t see that themselves but maybe it will come out brilliant and their gamble pays off.
But someone said something in that thread I thought was a great point and that the movie would probably elicit a very different response if it had the tone of Andor and not Suicide Squad. That is really a great insight and the tone I think most people were expecting even if they still hated the idea. That’s the Section 31 I would’ve like to see personally. And I wish they get off this bizarre kick we want to see MU Georgiou as some kind of carefree and fun loving person everyone REALLY admires. It all just rings so hollow knowing what she is but I’m going into a rant now lol. So will stop there.
Haha nice!
And wow, that Andor suggestion is definitely a good one. I loved that show and that’s exactly how you do that kind of genre. Andor really feels like an adult SW show. Section 31 feels and looks so amateurish compared to that, but if I’m being honest that would be most of NuTrek minus maybe Picard season 3. Most of the SW shows don’t compare to that level either, but most of those have been worse than NuTrek.
But the trailer is getting pounced on for many reasons. You laid out many here.
One thing I don’t get is that Lower Decks is set 300 years into Lily and her crew’s future, so how are they still alive? Were they time-displaced into the 24th century when they started dimension hopping? Did anybody pick up on the explanation for this?
I wouldn’t assume that time is identical across multiple universes. Being 2382 in the Prime ST universe doesn’t mean it’s going to be 2382 in every universe. As we saw with the Purple D and Purple Data, the Purple universe appeared to be 2369 (season 6 of TNG). Lily’s universe appeared to be 2090s or so. T’Pol was married to Trip for 63 years, so she appears to be from 2230s. Curzon was younger here than who we saw on DS9, so maybe 2350s.
Yeah I see others are talking about this as well. But I guess some of them can be from other centuries too, ie, why she has the Enterprise uniform and one of the earliest Starfleet ships. So there is probably some time jumping going on, at least with her ship.
To be honest, I don’t how T’Pol is still alive either. She would be nearly 300 years old at this point (and don’t look a day over 40, how do Vulcans do it???).
Maybe they will explain it next episode.
I assume that the universes aren’t all in synch in time. The purple universe also seemed like it was a couple of decades before the prime universe.
That’s what I’m thinking now as well. Sloane doesn’t seem remotely surprised how advanced Boimler’s ship is, she probably has met people in many different time periods.
She basically confirmed that she has visited worlds that were much more advanced than even what we see regarding Earth in the prime ST universe. She said she has met humans who have built rings around the sun (Dyson rings) and who built ships the size of continents. Both of those are beyond 24th century ST technology for humans, so that does imply that they have been to universes where time is faster, centuries or millennia ahead of the 24th century.
Also, we know from Discovery that travelling to a different universe, and through time, is very bad. Starfleet had to petition the Federation Council to have Yor euthanized due to his extreme suffering, and that would have happened to Georgiou if the Guardian of Forever hadn’t sent her back.
Yep great points. You’re right, she did say all of that. I have to watch it again but it’s made clear she has gone into universes way more advanced than even the prime universe.
I am 100% sure that not having an explanation is better than having one in this case. I have to be honest, I liked the subtlety of Garak and Bashir’s flirting on DS9 more than Iiked the actual relationship.
Disagreed.
I don’t think a detailed explanation is needed, but a statement that there is time displacement would be sufficient. Or maybe you are right, and we just infer that from the fact that Lily is alive 300 years into her future.
Agreed. The episode was pretty heavy on the technobabble as it is. A casual hand wave explanation usually doesn’t work on Trek fans, so… it’s fine to not get into it.
Yes… the parallel universes are not necessarily synced time-wise.
It wasn’t mentioned in this particular episode of Lower Decks, but if you recall the two-part Enterprise episode “In a Mirror, Darkly” they mention that the parallel universes are not “time synced.” That’s why the Defiant from Kirk’s time in the Prime Universe (from the “Tholian Web” episode) ends up in the Mirror Universe during mirror-Archer’s time. The Defiant slipped between universes but ended up in an earlier period in the Mirror Universe due to the time misalignment.
I believe that this shifting in time between parallel universes is why Yor (from Discovery) and Emperor Georgiou had that phasing issue that led to the death of Yor and issues for Georgiou.
So, even though it was not explicitly stated, I think there’s been enough “history” in Star Trek from several other series that implies that all of the alternate universes may not be moving along in the same time frame.
Now THIS is how you do a Section 31 story!
This episode was FANTASTIC!!! Probably my top 3 episodes of the show. Loved every second of it from beginning to end. Lower Decks gets it done every season and this season looks like it’s going to have one of the best Star Trek finales ever!
The second I saw T’Pol, I knew I was going to love this thing. That’s honestly all I even needed. But then when Curzon, Garek and Bashir all showed up I was in Trekkie heaven. And then Kim showed up and I smiled with more glee. But easily the biggest surprise of all, having Lily bleeping Sloane back and part of Starfleet. Bro!!!!! Also loved her ship which looks like the one pictured in TMP. These guys always go out of their way with the deep cuts and I always love it.
It was just a great mix of legacy characters mixed in with a fun and intriguing story line. I’m actually happy there wasn’t a villain causing the fissures. That was such a cool twist with a bunch of them.
Mike McMahan shows every season how much he loves and gets Star Trek. Wonderfully done!
Damn. I was really hoping for some Moopsy this season.
This show is hands down the best post-Berman. I am heartbroken over its ending.
Preach! 😎👍
Agreed. Personally, I miss every incarnation of Trek that ends… but this one feels like it was torn from us unceremoniously. I hope the execs are paying attention to fan reaction since their decision. It just can’t end here, y’know? There’s too much left for Mike to do, and it’s obvious he wants to.
Well this episode is officially a hit. People are raving about it on Reddit and Youtube and it currently has a 9.1 IMDB rating, so far the highest rated episode LDS has ever had. The only other shows in NuTrek with a rating of at least a 9 are the last two episodes of Picard season 3 and the SNW episode Quality of Mercy.
It’s now in a very rare club!
Haha, nice!
In the middle of the season I was getting worried this season was falling off and we might end up with a whimper. But now it looks like it’s going out strong. I still can’t rate this episode yet but it is probably in my top 5 at least.
Even if it doesn’t stay that high, the fact it even got there is pretty impressive. I can assure you TATV and Threshold never reached that level lol.
The last episode of Picard season 3 has a 9 on IMDB… lol. Nostalgia goggles are a powerful thing.
Fire. Fire. Fire. Fire.
I can’t understand your issue with call-backs (what you call “nostalgia”), given that every post you place on this board is a call-back to (or “nostalgic of”) everything else you’ve ever posted.
Don’t get nostalgic about Emily’s posts. Harry will scold you for it.
It’s actually a 9.4 and I absolutely love it! 🙂🖖
That’s crazy it’s still that high. I’m sure you remember when I posted it in the finale thread and people almost lost their minds lol. I will never understand some people online. I can certainly understand when people get upset when others dump on something others like, but its so weird when people are upset when others are positive over something they don’t like; especially in a fan base that feels rarer and rarer to find that these days. Will never get it. But regardless why people like the finale, the fact so many do is great to see. It’s certainly better than how everyone reacted over Nemesis lol.
It’s just bitter people who can only accept something if everyone else see it their way.
I even said this on Trekcre recently and it bothers some people when they are not part of a consensus. We see it all the time in life. Some people can’t accept other people just think something sucks because they like it. And it’s not disagreeing, they see it as some fundamental issue the other side is having because they happen to like a show, movie or character and we don’t. So they come up with many bizarre reasons that others really do like it a lot more than we think even after years of seeing it’s just not that popular and that’s OK.
I always loved LDS but I get it’s not for everyone. My own girlfriend hates it. Sure people obviously like it but I have no idea if that’s the majority of fans. Sure maybe the ones who watch it love it but maybe the overwhelming majority actually hates but simply doesn’t watch it. I don’t care either way, I focus on the people who DO love it and not spend all my times arguing with the ones who hate it or have to convince them all Trekkies love it and you’re missing out not loving it as much as us.
I have better things do with my time, like watching and enjoying the show. I’ll let the internet figure out of it’s the best or worst show ever made, just give me another episode and that’s all I care about.
Agreed. Can’t add much to that. If more people had this mentality online, there would be a lot less bitterness and anger and just focusing on their personal enjoyment instead of being so consumed with other people’s opinions.
As for Lower Decks, I do think the majority who watches it at least likes it since it does seem to bear out online in most places these days; especially this board and Reddit. But you’re also right, we don’t know how many actually watch it and it could be more people tuning out instead of watching it because they are simply not interested in it. Both obviously can be true.
Oh be quiet Emily. Nobody is interested in what you have to say.
Evil Harry Kim…Muah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
I’m ******* Harry Kim!
You ARE F***ING him??? 😳 How’d you get so lucky? 🤣👍
(Did you mean to put those “*******” between his first and surname, by chance? As in time stamp 24:42 of the episode? 🫣)
Anyway, this episode was phenomenal! 🌟 Thank you for the subversion of expectations. Thank you for Bashir + Garak, for T’Pol, Lily, the Harrys, and even for Curzon! Really looking forward to the series finale. Thanks, creative team! 🙏
Nope.
He swore as he was about to enter the fissure.
I bet Garrett loved every minute playing his animated selves.
Finally… vindication!
And that’s what I like about LDS and PROD. Animation allows for the previous actors a chance to continue to work with their old characters without having to worry about “aging” being a factor.
Favourite deep cut was the reveal of the Defiant class landing gear at long last 😂
What an amazing, phenomenal, magical experience! I was in such disbelief about some of the cameos that I thought they recast the characters, especially T’Pol. It wasn’t until the end credits that I realized they actually got them all! I immediately had to go back and rewatch the entire episode to take it in. Jolene has been MIA for so long that I just assumed we would never see her again, so the fact she returned for this is just incredible. Admittedly I never cared for her pouty and demure performance on Enterprise, however she was pitch perfect here! Just perfect fan servicing as we head toward the end, all of this just makes me extra sad to see the show ending. This really feels like the final farewell to the “Berman Era” of Star Trek, but I’m glad we got to spend so much time here between Picard, Lower Decks, and Prodigy.
…which suggests that they really can’t step into their old roles again. The only one that seemed anything like the original was Garak.
Watched it twice now it was that good.
Bring on next week!
Just when I felt this season was lacking they throw in an excellent, if not one of the best episode of the series. It was brill seeing the returning characters like T’Pol (long may the Enterprise respect continue), plus Lily Sloane aka the great Alfre Woodard from my fav Trek film! What a treat. Loved it and cannot wait for next week. I am really going to miss Lower Decks, it has on many occasions put the live action efforts to shame. Plus, like S2 of Prodigy and Picard S3, reinforces why the late 24th/25th century time frame should be the main focal point of the franchise.
Lower Decks is back with a GREAT episode! Season 5 has NOT been the best and for the first time had its share of meh, whatever episodes but this — YES! A perfect Lower Decks episode
First canon use of Lily’s last name from the First Contact Script and books – Sloan.
One missed opportunity that I feel could have righted a lot of wrong — this T’Pol says she was married to Trip Tucker for 66 years — and I LOVE that — while it was established that only Captain “William” Boimler was from the Prime Reality, an additional throwaway line that T’Pol was also from the Prime Universe would have conically retconned the appalling “These are the Voyages” death of Trip Tucker once and for all and we Trek fans would know that the holodeck simply got that detail wrong in the Enterprise finale. Yeah, it’s too little too late fan service and 20 years later but still, would have been SO nice if this was “Our” T’Pol married to a very long lived Trip.
Lovely to have Jolene back, loved the Garak / Bahir marriage and what JOY to have Alfre Woodard back as Lily Sloan. She’s Jonathan Frakes Godmother so he may have acalled her as a favor to do this — but what an unexpected surprise that the fissures were NOT caused by evil but by accident as they explored.
I’ll bet Garret LOVED the opportunity for all those versions of Kim to gripe about not being promoted.
“I’m Harry [beeping] Kim!”
“He’s got TWO pips!”
Joyous episode and man, LOVE the Boimler scream. The finale, I think, will be quite the ride.
OK finally watched it a second time and I realized I missed quite a few things on my first watch. I didn’t catch the first time the moment Mariner fan girled over T’Pol and felt a bit similar to her excitement meeting Uhura on SNW.
I also completely missed that Sloane’s ship bridge was mostly identical to the NX-01’s.
Garak’s lines were hilarious and so on point for the character. Also missed the tailor reference before. Oh and speaking of Garak, it may seem crazy now, but when DS9 was on I NEVER picked up Garak was supposed to be secretly gay or had a thing for Bashir. Not once did that ever register the entire time the show existed. It literally wasn’t until the documentary What We Left Behind when Robinson talked about Garak’s first encounter with Bashir I realized it (and that moment got the biggest laugh in the theater). And when I did my rewatch of the entire show later, now it was all I saw lol.
And I never thought I would ever see T’Pol, Kim, Garak and Sloane all in the same room together. Pretty amazing.,
I’m not holding my breath, but it would be great if we got an appearance by any of the three former captains we haven’t seen yet in the modern era: Archer, Sisko or (Shatner’s) Kirk. Obviously I don’t expect any of them and Archer probably is the only one who has a good chance of appearing but it would be incredible if Shatner appeared and the biggest get of them all. I remember the thousands of discussions of him showing up on the first Kelvin movie and it would be hilarious if its this show he appears again after Generations.
Anyway, amazing episode. Just a reminder why LDS gets the fanfare it does.
Watched it three times now. This episode is fire!
And it’s crazy this board now has over 100 posts. That’s very rare for this show. If it gets over a few dozen posts, that’s a win lol. Unfortunately most people don’t seem to post much about LDS here or Trekcre, at least when compared to the live action shows. And I usually go to other places like Reddit or YouTube to talk in-depth about it where there is just a lot more conversation.
So anytime it gets over a hundred is a pretty big deal here and shows how much it engaged people.
Most of those 100 posts seem to be from a handful of posters. There’s nothing *wrong* with that, of course, but it suggests that a smaller group is passionate about the episode, rather than widespread appeal.
But that’s 90% of every thread these days. There is really only 1-2 dozen regulars like us that posts at least several times a week.
If you look at the season 3 Picard review threads there are a few extra people but the majority are the same people who posts here and those got 300+ plus posts every episode It really is the level of engagement between everyone.
I decided to watch this finale after learning that it would feature T’Pol; as one poster above put it, anything that validates ENT can’t be all bad.
…Or so I thought.
I suppose I can be glad that people who enjoy LOWER DECKS got a finale they enjoyed. But, as perhaps to be expected, I found it encapsulated everything I shake my head at about the series. (Yup, that’s a polite way of saying “Gawd, that was awful.”)
– Folks lathered on the criticism of “These Are The Voyages” for featuring two TNG characters and (allegedly) sidelining the ENT cast. Here, nearly every character was from another series, and the two familiar characters were alternate reality versions of themselves. Aside from a few seconds of framing, *none* of the characters y’all purport to adore so much showed up. No Tendi, no Rutherford, no Freeman or her husband/CO, none of the other bridge crew.
If none of them were really missed — *in a series finale* of all places — perhaps the show isn’t all it’s cracked up to be?
– Perhaps it’s the voice actors getting older, but, with the exception of Garak, none of the legacy characters really sounded like they did before. More importantly, none of them remotely *acted* like they did before; see my next point.
– Then there’s the “squee!” factor. Bashir’s a hologram: squee! He’s married to Garak, who’s a doctor: squee! Garak never showed any proclivity for medicine, nor Mariner for engineering. In “Parallels,” we didn’t get whack-a-mole wholesale changes that made no sense; the changes we saw grew organically from the “prime” reality characters. This was LARPing masquerading as creativity, cross-dressing masquerading as characterization.
– The “Harry Kim never gets promoted” shtick is becoming entirely Johnny One Note. He didn’t get promoted in VOY because they were all stuck in the Delta Quadrant and “promotions” would have been meaningless. And the Kim character is just not *that* alluring, even back on VOY. You thought that ENT episode where they “explained” 1960s-era Klingon makeup was superfluous? That was this on steroids.