After five seasons the animated adult comedy Star Trek: Lower Decks has come to an end with the series finale “The New Next Generation.” The episode was written by series creator and showrunner Mike McMahan and TrekMovie had a chance to talk to him about crafting this final season and his hopes to bring the show back in some form.
Let’s simply start off with, how do you feel?
I’m feeling like we accomplished a lot. I’m greedy. I would have been like, “How about another 50 episodes of animated Star Trek that’s very hard to make?” I don’t know if I fully processed it. I’m of different minds. Part of me is like, “Oh, it’s going to be neat to find out if people love me or hate me five years from now.” We did so much, but it’s like, I really would have liked to have done seeing how Billups became a Starfleet officer story where we went back in time. I would have liked to have seen Tendi become a captain. And I would have liked to have explored more with T’Lyn. I just have to live with knowing we did a good job, because I want to do more, because I love these characters. But to that extent, we had a blast making the show, especially in this final season. We got to do a lot of cool and work with a lot of cool people. And it’s like a high-class problem to have to love the Star Trek show you made. [laughs]
Looking at the final few episodes, especially the last three, and it feels like you saw the finish line was coming and you were putting out everything you could that’s left on the wall of the writers’ room. Is there an element of that?
Yeah, absolutely. The first half of the season is Lower Decks as usual. This is what I would just have been doing. And then the second half of the season, I definitely accelerated and made some different choices so that when the audience watched, it didn’t feel like they were left with just another season. We wanted it to feel like we accelerated with a big crazy legacy cast episode, and William Boimler, and Starbase 80, and all this interesting stuff we were doing. But this season is a fifth of the show. So I didn’t want from episode 1 all the way through episode 10 to feel like it was unrecognizable and not Lower Decks because we’re trying to jam stuff in. So you’re definitely not wrong with what you’re detecting. Would I have done all of that in this season? Maybe not. Would I have done all of it? For sure. So it’s kind of a mix.
From episode 9
Tawny [Newsome] previously talked about how the finale went through a lot of changes. I’m not sure, was she just talking about the final episode or the final two? And can you talk through maybe some of those changes and roads not taken? Like maybe not T’Pol, but some other legacy, that kind of thing?
Episode 9 didn’t go through a lot of changes, because – by some miracle of Star Trek, like the Koala god of Star Trek, every single legacy actor that we went out to agreed to do the show. If [Alexander Siddig] didn’t want to come back as Bashir, then the Garak and Bashir story doesn’t make any sense. So waiting to find out about the cast of that episode was so stressful because every single character had a story. It wasn’t just like they were walking in and waving. Like, T’Pol and Curzon have a story and all the Harry Kims have a story. So that episode didn’t go through a lot of changes.
The finale did, but it wasn’t changes like how you would hear about reshoots happening on a movie that wasn’t working or something. It was more that last act, which is a real goodbye to what we’ve known so far and here’s the new era of Lower. We were taking HUGE swings in that act. And what was happening was we would record with the actors, and sometimes they’d be like, “You didn’t push this far enough.” And sometimes they’d be like, “You pushed this so far, I don’t recognize the character anymore.” So it became dialing it in, feeling like we were taking steps forward, but not undoing stuff that we had done before. It was really just part of the process. It wasn’t like we messed up. It was like, let’s try this thing and see if it works and adjust. But from Tawny’s point of view, yeah, we brought her into the booth over and over again, because we were getting down to the granular sentences of what these characters were saying in the time that we had at the very end of this season.
From episode 10
Perhaps you were putting extra pressure on yourself because it was it?
Yeah, pressure or what felt right, you know what I mean? What feels like when you finish the finale, you don’t go, “Wow, they really fucked up. They left us hanging on that.” Everything had to get a little bit of a light shined on it. And because of that, because of how we can only use our time that we have – like in the show and in life – but every line has to be right. Every single little moment has to be right. And it happens like seven times. It happens when you’re writing it, it happens when you’re editing, it happens when you’re recording our cast, it happens when you’re in the audio mix trying to make everything land, and the music has to feel right, and obviously the art has to be epic and good and funny and charming. Everything has to all be working in this episode.
With the “to be continued…” with episode 9, I was surprised that none of those legacy character storylines or William carried into the finale but then I realized you wanted to do legacy in a huge way, but the finale is supposed to be about our people…
Yes, that’s right. Lower Decks isn’t really about legacy characters. It’s about Star Trek writ large. And legacy characters are a part of that, for sure, for us. But it’s like having a famous person walk into the room. The ultimate expression of that is the [Strange New Worlds] crossover episode where Boimler and Mariner on the Enterprise are like, be careful what you wish for. You like legacy folks, now you’re going to get to meet a bunch of them that have been dead for a hundred years. But for me, episode 9 and all the legacy characters are kind of a thank you to our fans. It’s not a thing I would have done unless I really wanted to be like we’ve heard you guys, and we want to do something that’s fun for you but also feels like a great Lower Decks episode. Because episode 9, in a lot of ways is also a Mariner and Boimler episode. It’s almost the ending of the Boimler splitting up in season two arc with meeting alternate version Mariner and defining their friendship crossing realities. I like that about episode 9 as well, but then, certainly, leading into 10, it had to be about the Cerritos. It had to be about the ship. It had be about Klingons and different versions of the ship and engineering and shields going down, and all the great kind of Star Trek battle stuff.
From episode 10
Every time I talk to one of you guys, it’s like there’s this acknowledgement that it’s not really over. But has there been any actual thought or discussion about how it could not be over and if so how would you imagine it? A character showing up on another show? A streaming movie? A new season on Netflix? What’s possible from your point of view?
I mean, it’s tough. If you ask people from the crew and production, of course, it’s possible. We’d all like to keep making it. I have more stories I want to tell. Our cast wants to keep working together. Our producer loves to pay his mortgage. [laughs] But at the same time, the reality of the situation is we have five seasons of a show that is a miracle that it exists. And with the help of Secret Hideout, I got to make exactly the show I wanted to make. And I grew up as a writer making this show. This was my first show I ever sold. This was my first at bat. I’m really proud of what we did. And there’s things happening in the industry, not just at Paramount, but all over the place. We are in a moment of regroup, which I guess is the nicest way to put it. For me, okay, when do I take my shot again at getting to do more of this? Because you don’t amass “no’s” and then turn in all the “no’s” ticket like at an arcade to get a slappy hand. If you start to amass “no’s” you are permanently the guy who was told “no,” and then you don’t get to do it again.
So for me, it’s making sure that the fans know that we love the show. I can’t tell them how to vocalize that they want more of it. I can’t be the one who leads that charge because I benefit creatively and financially from this show. It takes more voices than mine in order to cause any change to happen. But the people that I have access to talk to, they love the show too. Like, if our executives on the studio side could have kept the show going, they would have too. There’s forces at work that are bigger than us. I’m also excited about seeing the other Star Trek stuff. I’m excited for Section 31. I’m excited for Starfleet Academy. And Strange New Worlds! This isn’t like the ending of Enterprise where it’s like question marks. There’s three Star Trek things coming that you guys even know about! So for me being a Trek fan in general, I’m happy. I love that there’s more Trek coming. I love that we have the Lower Decks comics. I love that we got to do Lower Decks. As a Lower Decks fan, I’m going to just regroup, take the victory lap for a second, and then when the industry and Paramount seems to kind of be in a place where Lower Decks can pop back again, I’m going to make a hard push to get to do whatever we can get – More episodes, a movie, a live-action spinoff? Who knows?
NEW YORK, NEW YORK – OCTOBER 19: (L-R) Noël Wells, Eugene Cordero, Tawny Newsome, Jack Quaid and Mike McMahan attend the Lower Decks Reception during New York Comic Con at Bar Primi on October 19, 2024 in New York City. (Photo by Santiago Felipe/Getty Images for Paramount+)
The fifth and final season of Lower Decks is available now on Paramount+ in the U.S. and internationally.
Keep up with news about the Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com.
NOTE: Interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.
I am still at a loss for why this got cancelled. Kudos to the cast and crew, I thought it would suck when it was announced and I ended up loving it. Very sad it’s over.
The answer is “money”. It’s always about money. In what way? I don’t know, but someone knowledgeable can tell you and in summary it’s about money.
This is not a profound revelation. It’s called show “business.” If it doesn’t make business sense to continue this show, even if it’s cheap to produce, why on earth would Paramount do so?
For a moment I was afraid we were going to see the fate of the Enterprise-E explained in animated form. Perhaps OTOY can pick that thread up and give us a mini movie explaining it. I don’t mind if its associated with the anomaly.
This guy seems to know how to write Star Trek that I like. Give him the keys to a live action series.
Lower Decks, Prodigy, and Picard Season 3 were “all good things” and they’ve been made to must I guess.
Wish they’d’ve continued on instead of S31 and SA, SNW (SNL Trek), and whatever nonsense the rumored sitcom will be.
Agreed!
I do like SNW but I also like its comedic and lighter aspect too.
But I agree with everything else I think LDS, Prodigy and Picard season 3 have all been amazing Star Trek. Not perfect but really does feel like the best of classic Star Trek IMO.
It’s a little depressing, at least at the moment, none of those shows are continuing in some form.
Here’s some fanfic picks to fill the Lower Decks-shaped gap (all recommendations non-explicit). These fics are best found via entering the author’s name into the AO3 search field, as Google does not turn up all of them:
I really hope Mike McMahan gets to see this because it’s fantastic – Lower Decks episodes s04e09 and s04e10 retold fully in rhyme in the style of a famous 1800s seafaring ballad: The Rime of the Ensign Mariner by JayaMayweatherdeFierce on AO3 (for some reason Google does not find it, enter into search field on AO3), I quote: “When Mariner did leave the cave, Her burdens lighter were, Yet while she peril might eschew, The peril still sought her.” Go read!
Moths by maphrysstark on AO3: An AU (alternate universe) where Data and Dr. Agnes Jurati work together to rehabilitate exocomps and get entangled in a mission that leads them to the exocomp colony. 68 chapter longfic exploring the culture of the exocomp colony.
Displaced by PiLambdaOd (only visible to registered AO3 users): A time travel fic in which Mariner gets transported to the Cerritos’ future and learns how her sudden absence alterered her friends’ and family’s lives. Will she be able to return? – This author writes episode style fanfiction which may include a bleaker view of Captain Freeman’s parenting abilities..
Hur’Iq toDuj by Like_a_Hurricane (only visible to registered AO3 users): An alternate future for Ma’ah, written before season 5 – The fic where Beckett Mariner claims Ma’ah as her personal therapist and secret-channel relations ensue between a rather klingon-like human and an in some aspects rather human-like klingon (in short: the fic that ships Ma’ah and Mariner and makes this plausible). This highly entertaining fic has Klingon Bluegrass bands, recurring knife jokes, Klingon family dynamics and a prequel called “vaj Duj DachIj” which tells events from Ma’ah’s perspective.
The Real Deal by FFCrazy15: Soft one-chapter fic where Boimler goes autograph-hunting, with a side of Janeway/Chakotay.
There’s also a pre-season 5 episode-style fanfic exploring Starbase 80 with a promising first chapter which I have not yet read: STAR TREK: STAR BASE 80 Episode One: Pilot by starbase80 on AO3.
Enjoy!
I am so grateful that Lower Decks happened and we got five seasons to keep watching.
THANK YOU MIKE.
Agreed. If this is the end then we got 5 seasons of a great show and no one can take that away from it And I didn’t love last season either.
But obviously many did and that’s all that matters.
I agree. Season 5 overall wasn’t my favourite season of the show but the finale was a belter. What a way to bow out.
I always forget this was his first pitch and job as a showrunner. It’s so confident. I am incredibly happy he got to live out this dream, and that so many of us loved what he put out there. It could have crashed and burned, but Paramount took a chance and her delivered. I hope this isn’t the last we see of Lower Decks, and I’ll certainly keep an eye out for his next new ventures in the future.
Well, that’s interesting. 🤔
Is it? Him telling us that we know about three things to be released? These being S31, SFA, SNW, what is interesting about that?
It would be more interesting if he hinted at things that we do not know about.
OK I listened to McMahan’s interview on Trek culture and he talked a bit about the cancellation issue.
He said that he was informed before they started production on season 5 that the show would be canceled BUT they weren’t completely sure it would be either. He said it PROBABLY would be but there was a chance it would get a season 6. So he made the first half of the season as he wanted but then made the second half into stories they were already planning in the future like Starbaae 80 and the Data episode.
But it sounded like that there is just a lot of upheaval with both Paramount+ and the industry in general at the moment.
And he made clear the executives love the show and want to keep it but like every show those decisions are probably made at the very top.
But knowing this actually gives me a bit of hope for the future because it sounds like they wanted to keep it and probably in a more ideal situation they would’ve.
But we been seeing the problems for years now and yes it’s probably just money and that Trek is no longer the driving force of that service like it was four years ago. It’s probably why Legacy isn’t happening or they can’t get another movie off the ground.
But maybe things will change when Skydance takes over and McMahan is thankfully pushing for more in the future. He has a lot of support just like Matalas did.
Sometimes I really do miss the 90s.
It’s wild. The last few years have almost been 80s/90s Star Trek mania revisited but in one concentrated burst, complete with huge hype, multiple TV shows at once, big budgets with flagship show status, and dizzying highs, followed by a rapid contraction and also-ran status on Paramount+.
Obviously it’s different this time out. Paramount Global’s problems are bigger than UPN’s, and today’s ratings and box office problems aren’t exactly 1:1. Paramount knows how to monetize a loyal audience better now, even if the shows and films have been divisive. And this time we know more shows and films are coming. Still, as a longtime Trek fan, there’s a little sense of deja vu.
Merry Christmas Ian! :)
And sadly the reality is there is just much less Trek being produced today. Just two years ago, there were five shows in production and it felt like that was going to last for at least a few years. Instead, it didn’t last longer than one. Cut to 2024, while we are still getting more Star Trek but now there is only one former show in production (SNW) with SFA on its way and the Section 31 TV movie.
I think the writing was on the wall things weren’t going too well for Trek the day both Discovery and Prodigy got unceremoniously cancelled. Discovery wasn’t a huge shock since it was already five seasons old. But it was also obvious no one knew it was getting cancelled either until it did. But Prodigy was the biggest shocker not only being cancelled after just one season but being taken off the site completely. If you have to wipe a low budget animated show from your streaming service that is part of a long standing franchise you been actively building up a library for, then it’s a sign you got bigger problems.
So given everything, it’s surprising LDS lasted as long as it did. I don’t doubt the show probably has lost viewers like probably was the case for Discovery and definitely Prodigy. But I don’t think it’s the lack of viewers so much as Star Trek as a franchise is just not the priority anymore because Paramount+ knows that’s not going to make or break the site at this point. They still need its audience but as I’ve been saying for a while now, they probably reached their maximum subscribers long ago and don’t see the need to have shows on all year anymore; especially for the amount of money they been spending on them.
But if we get at least 2-3 shows and hopefully an occasional streaming movie, that’s still pretty good. And yes maybe we will get another theatrical movie before 2030. Fingers crossed. But hopefully LDS will stay a part of the roster somehow in the future, via streaming movies or maybe a spin off show.
Definitely feels like they’ve calculated the amount of new Star Trek they need to produce to keep existing fans subscribed, with SFA being at least a tentative attempt to get a new and younger demo into the mix. But I do get that sense they think they’ve pulled in as many Trek fans as they could with that initial big spend and now that belts are tightened the big priority is stuff like Taylor Sheridan’s which has broader appeal. Was always inevitable, but it just happened faster than I think even Paramount was anticipating. Though really, what good executive doesn’t foresee Wall Street taking a look at streaming and going, “So… when is everyone going to start among actual money on this sh*t?”
I enjoyed the ride while it lasted, and they’re still spending lots of money on new Trek, so I’m not despondent like I was 19 years ago, so that’s something! A good enough baseline for the holidays. Merry Christmas!
Definitely agree. I think the Sheridan shows essentially replaced Trek’s importance on the service and exactly why there are around 5(?) more of his shows in development and there are currently 6 of them running now. That’s a lot of freaking shows and none of them are cheap either.
We all know Star Trek has a ceiling no matter what they do and they probably realized having 5 shows was just overkill considering the audience they have today. In the Berman days, having just two shows on did feel like a big deal and it worked for 7 years. And we got 50 episodes a year along with a film every few years. It was a nice balance and obviously it didn’t last forever either. At some point, things just subside.
It is disappointing we are not getting as much Trek as before, but we are still getting it, so that will always be a positive. And yes who knows, maybe they will decide to just license the shows to other streamers like Netflix or Amazon. Probably not anytime soon but even if Paramount+ ultimately becomes the next UPN I don’t think Trek would go away completely like last time because there are just so many more options now and it will live on somewhere else. Lower Decks itself would probably benefit from that.
Well, hopefully, they’ll bring it back, after STARFLEET ACADEMY has run its course.