Just before the year wraps up we have one more story of the Kelvin Universe movie actors talking about Star Trek 4. This time it’s Zoe Saldaña who has some concerns over how long it is taking Paramount Pictures to get a follow-up to 2016’s Star Trek Beyond going.
Not getting any younger
While promoting her latest projects, Zoe Saldaña spoke to Deadline a little bit about Star Trek, expressing some anxiety about getting back to her role of Nyota Uhura in time:
“I wish we were able to do it sooner rather than later. I feel like a lot of us have a full head of gray hair, so we need to do this quickly, if this is the same cast that’s going to reprise it again.”
Earlier this year two of her Star Trek co-stars also brought up the aging issue, with Chris Pine pondering how the next film would deal with Kirk getting “a lot older.” Zachary Quinto seems a bit more relaxed saying he doesn’t have an issue with the gap in time, noting that the original Star Trek cast performed “well into their 50s, 60s,” although he added, “We might not be running as fast on the other planets.”
Zoe Saldana as Uhura in Star Trek Beyond (Paramount Pictures)
Vulcan love story
The 2009 Star Trek movie introduced a romance between Spock (Zachary Quinto) and Uhura, and it appears that Saldaña is hoping to return to that love story for Star Trek 4, telling Variety:
“It’s been a minute since I reconnected with Star Trek and all the characters’ journeys, but Uhura and Spock were always sort of drawn to each other, it just makes sense to see what is the next step in their relationship and their work relationship as well.”
This isn’t Saldaña’s only ask when it comes to her next outing in the final frontier. Earlier this year she said she would like to see Uhura “ascend to a leadership position,” and do “something else” than just be in charge of communications for the Enterprise.
Zoe Saldaña as Uhura with Zachary Quinto as Spock in Star Trek Beyond (Paramount Pictures)
Paramount first announced a fourth movie for the Kelvin Universe cast before Beyond came out in the summer of 2016. However since Beyond didn’t bring in the expected growth in box office, the studio has struggled to come up with a follow-up film, going through multiple writers and directors in the last eight years. Currently Paramount is committed to putting out what they are now calling the final film for the Kelvin crew, tapping Steve Yockey (The Flight Attendant) earlier this year to pen the latest draft. However, “Star Trek 4” has to get in line behind the “Untitled Star Trek Origin Movie” which has been put on their 2026 slate (although without a set release date). That movie would have a new cast and is based on a script from Seth Grahame-Smith (The Lego Batman Movie) with Andor‘s Toby Haynes set to direct with a story reportedly about the origins of Starfleet.
As for now, Saldaña (46) isn’t showing signs of that full head of gray hair she mentioned, as you can see in the image below from earlier this month at the SAG Awards.
If Paramount wants to get a movie into theaters by the end of 2026 to celebrate the 60th anniversary of Star Trek, they better get moving fast on that origin story. And then maybe they will still have time to make their final Kelvin movie. But with Skydance set to take over Paramount in 2025 (pending regulatory approval), all bets may be off on the future of the franchise on the big screen (and small).
Find more news and analysis on upcoming Star Trek feature films.
Is there any appetite for another Kelvin Timeline movie outside of Paramount and the cast? I feel everyone else has moved on and a fourth film wouldn’t do very well.
It boggles the mind that they are still trying. But clearly no one is trying all that hard because they fear not enough people cares anymore.
And I do believe there are people out there that wants to see another one of course. The question is how many and will most of them actually go see it in a theater or just wait for it to come to streaming in a few months? That’s both the question and issue today.
It just feels like it’s way too late at this point when even people here doesn’t sound like they care anymore. It’s not a great sign when even your devoted fanbase gives it a collected shrug as we are seeing in this thread and the last few years.
At least its a shrug. There’s outright disdain for S31. Star Trek feels like it’s dying on its feet at the moment.
Lol true.
I am looking forward to Sect 31, it’ll be different (as they have stated) and not everything can be exactly what you expect (Lower Decks as an example- being 100x better than any of the usual suspects here would have thought)
Michelle Y isn’t going to be in something shitty, but we’ll find out in a month.
I’m also looking forward to Section 31, despite the general consensus that it is going to be awful.
Circling the drain. Very sad and fully unnecessary.
Yes, a lot of people want to see it.
Zero interest. As far as I’m concerned, she isn’t Uhura, he isn’t Spock, etc….
It’s not needed. Star Trek is doing considerably well on streaming. Need to look forward to Legacy, not backwards to whatever this was.
Maybe Paramount+ will make it as a streaming movie like they did Section 31.
I sincerely doubt Paramount+ has the money to pay for those a-list stars, even in a comparatively low budget TV movie-type adventure. Also not clear if all of them would do a straight-to-streaming project like that.
This cast is fantastic, and now they’re all big names – budget has been the main reason we haven’t seen another one. They’re all too expensive, which means the financial return has to be astronomical, which is why we haven’t seen them since Beyond, and why the projects we heard about moving forward often had to do with other ships and crews.
“I sincerely doubt Paramount+ has the money to pay for those a-list stars, even in a comparatively low budget TV movie-type adventure. Also not clear if all of them would do a straight-to-streaming project like that.”
Well it apparently depends on what project we are talking about. Because if you are making a Taylor Sheridan show, then there is no problem to pay any Star they want including Zoe Saldana since she stars in Lioness with other big stars like Nicole Kidman and Morgan Freeman. Harrison Ford and Helen Mirren is in 1923 and that second season starts soon too.
This idea Paramount doesn’t have money to make big movies and shows anymore is a misnomer. They have the money, yes even on Paramount+. But the issue is only when they think something is a sure bet they are willing to spend whatever it is. The Taylor Sheridan shows are now seen as a sure bet so money is no object for his shows.
Butt that’s the issue with Star Trek right now, it’s just not a sure bet anymore and they can’t risk spending the money for another bomb the way Disney or WB can. If it was, we would’ve had another movie out years ago and probably the same budget Beyond had.
And besides Zoe Saldana (and I guess Chris Pine?) no one in that cast are A list stars. I don’t know why people keep saying this? The majority of the cast are working on TV shows today. Again, with the exception of Zoe Saldana, none of them are A list ‘big names’. They keep and keep and keep trying with Christ Pine to very bad results but the rest of them are working actors. Yes Simon Pegg has the MI movies, but outside of those he’s been in plenty of streaming shows the last few years and smaller budget movies. But people act like someone like Zachery Quinto is being thrown leading roles in films when he hasn’t even been in one in years now. John Cho has been in a half a dozen TV shows in the last 15 years and most of his movies lately have also been small budget films. His last movie cost $12 million and made about as much in the box office. These people are not Dwayne Johnson, Matt Damon or RDJ. Those are ‘big names’. These are just working actors like 90% of actors today.
And I think they would ALL do a Trek streaming movie because most of these people just want to work like every Star Trek actor before them. But yes, the question is still price because like everything, once you make a certain amount in an IP it’s harder to make less. But Marvel has figured it out and why half the actors on the MCU has appeared in the TV shows. But yes a typical MCU show is much higher than a typical Star Trek show these days.
But if you ask them if they want to do it at least, I think they would all jump at the chance.
Kid you not, but I watched Zachary Quinto in an episode of American Horror story a few days ago and had no clue he was in that. He was really good though .
I agree though none of these actors are big stars outside of Saldana. Pine hasn’t been able to open a movie in 6 years now, why do they keep paying that guy so much money??
Quick, name the last 3 movies you saw John Cho in? I can name them, Star Trek, Star Trek Into Dumbness and Star Trek Beyond. 😅
I love Karl Urban but the only movie I seen him do outside of Trek was Judge Dredd and that also bombed. I heard he’s great in The Boys but haven’t watched it yet
I’m guessing for majority of the actors not named Zoe Saldana, Star Trek is still their biggest pay day they gotten. Maybe Simon Pegg makes more with the MI movies though since he’s been on them a long time and do way more than Star Trek.
I also agree, they would probably all consider doing a Star Trek streaming movie. Quinto said he would do a Spock show if they offered him one.
I’m guessing most just want to do more Star Trek if given the chance.
Don’t get me wrong, they are all successful actors who obviously have no problem finding roles and a few really great ones too. But calling them ‘A list’ actors is not close to reality and yet I hear it all the time. People throw that term around a lot to any actor they know or been in a few big films or shows.
But I’m guessing maybe 5% (or probably less) of the top of the line actors are considered that today. And that doesn’t just mean how well your movies do (although that’s a plus lol) but much more than that. A list stars can get projects off the ground just by wanting to be in them. They are in high demand and top directors want to work with them and have direct deals with studios to make or produce movies or shows with.
Most can get their own pet projects created as well like Brad Pitt who has his own production company and has made dozens of movies because he has the clout to do it.. He’s starring in a $300 million Formula One movie he’s also an executive producer of and been a project he’s been wanting to get made for years. Then he pitched it to the guy who did Top Gun Maverick to direct it and Jerry Bruckheimer to produce it. He then brought it to Apple to distribute and finance it.
That’s the difference between a true A list star versus a working actor. No one is making a $300 million F1 movie starring anyone from the Kelvin cast.
And all of those actors have done TV and streaming. Pine is the only one who hasn’t done a streaming show of any kind yet but he did do a mini-series on TNT which I saw and liked. But then you have John Cho who has appeared in 14 TV shows since Beyond. I never heard of most except 3 of them. Most are just guest star appearances but had starring roles in a few. And sadly most didn’t last beyond a season. The biggest role he’s done since Trek was the lead in Cowboy Beepop on Netflix (and cancelled after one season). I don’t know much about it but I’ve heard of it.
And if you look at most of their current work in the last few years, it’s littered with TV guest appearances and low budget films minus Saldana and Pine.
But my only point is to think they are ‘too big’ to do a Star Trek streaming movie or show isn’t remotely true. They have done far less influential projects over the years on stuff most people probably never heard of. If Simon Pegg can star in a TV show on Peacock, I don’t think playing Scotty again on Paramount+ is beneath him.
pine did a streaming show with his WW director patty jenkins a few yeas ago.
We’re actually talking about the same show. It’s called “I Am the Night” and was definitely a TV mini-series. I know because I watched it every week on TNT when it premiered. You probably saw it later when it arrived on streaming, but trust me, it was a TV show first. Look it up.
But that is becoming a harder thing to distinguish when practically everything ends up on a streaming site now.
IMO Streaming has killed the idea that anyone is too big for anything. I mean as pointed out Morgan Freeman is on a streaming show with Saldana. Harrison ford is on P+, etc.. Streaming has really blurred the lines between movies and TV
Actually Morgan Freeman guest starred a few times on the CBS show Madam Secretary which is a great show BTW. But he was also an executive producer on it and probably why he appeared.
But you’re right, the line has blurred a lot. Now A list actors have done TV shows here and there too (as I mentioned above), but mainly as guest stars and not lead roles like you see on streaming shows.
And yes Harrison Ford is now in two of them, 1923 as mentioned and Shrinking on Apple TV and I watch both. Even though he’s in his freaking 80s, he’s still considered a major movie star and can get paid $20 million a movie. And yet there is he is working on streaming shows these days.
So yeah if Harrison Ford can be on a Paramount+ show, I’m pretty certain any Kelvin movie actor will happily do a Star Trek project on it as well considering most work on streaming shows and movies today.
I actually remember people saying that once Michelle Yeoh won the Oscar, that she would now be ‘too expensive’ to do the Section 31 show. I don’t get why people think once you win an Oscar you are suddenly making millions more dollars. And it’s funny how people think Paramount couldn’t suddenly afford her when they already got people like Harrison Ford and Sylvester Stallone working on their shows.
She’s now doing the Section 31 streaming movie which proves even she isn’t above reproach just because she has an Academy Award sitting in her house somewhere and Paramount had no problem paying her for it. And she does tons of streaming work too because that’s where most of the work is these days. I read she’s going to be on the new Blade Runner show for Amazon. Looking forward to that actually. But she’s been on streaming shows for Netflix, Disney+ and obviously Paramount+ with Discovery. And that was both before and after she won the Oscar.
And since she’s in a hundred different things now, clearly she hasn’t priced herself out of working lol.
But hey, if she did become too expensive or too in demand to make a Section 31 project, I certainly wouldn’t complain about it.
But if Oscar winning Michelle Yeoh can still ‘lower’ herself to do a Star Trek streaming movie, I’m guessing all the non Oscar winning Kelvin actors can do it too. ;)
Actually Michelle Yeoh is another good example because after she won the Oscar, people started calling her an A list actor because she was showing up in a lot more things. She’s not.
Yeah she has a lot more opportunities and can be choosy in what movie or show she does, but she is still nowhere close to an A list star. For one thing, 90% of her roles today are still just supporting characters and not the lead, at least in the movies. Maybe her TV roles are different and she’s the actual lead, but I haven’t seen any of those except Discovery of course, so I don’t know. But I’ve seen most of her movies the last few years and she is still a supporting actor in almost all of them. I remember when she was advertised in the movie A Haunting in Venice, they made it seem like she had a big part in it and she was in it for maybe twenty minutes.
That’s actually why I think she was excited to do the Section 31 show, because believe it or not, at least in Hollywood, that would’ve been her first lead role. AFAIK, the Section 31 film will be her first lead role since EEAAO. It’s a streaming movie and not an MCU movie, but she’s still the star and why it probably appealed to her. That’s why when people were making this bizarre excuse Yeoh was just too busy being in everything else but the Section 31 show, it made little sense because she was passing up the one opportunity for the first time she would be the star of and in a very known IP at that; just so she can pop up in a movie in the second or third act?
Now maybe she was the lead in other shows later, but the fact they all got cancelled after a season proves none of them is Star Trek either. I’m pretty sure she would’ve jumped on Section 31 if they kept to their original plan because once again, most actors want to work as much as possible.
OK, we have gone waaay off topic lol. Once again, clearly my fault. I just like to talk about this stuff in general but oddly enough it is still somewhat relevant to the article. Because even though Zoe Saldana is a huge Star today and frankly doesn’t even need to do anymore Star Trek but still talks about wanting to do another one year after year after year after year. And in fact has lately been talking about how she is tired of doing so many big IPs and sequels after Star Trek, Marvel and Avatar. But yet she still wants to do more because a job is still a job that probably pays pretty well. And of course it sounds like she just likes doing them.
Definitely agree. And I think the actor’s strike this year made it clear how more and more actors are doing more streaming projects because there just isn’t as much traditional stuff being made as before and many are doing it for simple survival.
If you’re Leonardo DiCaprio, you will never have to worry about not finding work because he can actually get films he wants green lit (within reason) and paid a ridiculous amount of money. That’s not the same with people like Karl Urban or even Chris Pine. In fact, Pine even said he made The Poolman because he was realizing he wasn’t being offered certain projects and that most big actors produce their own work, so he took a stab at it. The movie was horrible but I can’t fault him for trying to find ways that keeps him working and expanding his skills a bit.
As you said, many A-list actors produce their own movies and don’t just show up and read the lines. They have a direct investment in the movie or show they are making. Many work hand and hand with the director in crafting the movie like DiCaprio and Martin Scorsese do in the movies they make together. Tom Cruise is basically a ghost director on all his films these days. They all have a director, but from what I read, not a single scene gets approved until Cruise decides on it. That was actually a big problem on The Mummy with Kurtzman directing it.
And I also guess it depends how much clout an actor have in a show or movie franchise that they basically became the star in. Patrick Stewart was a mostly unknown Shakespeare actor when he got the role in TNG, he was very much an actor for hire even though he was an acclaimed one in England. But that meant nothing in terms of clout he had on the show. But by the time the show ended and the movies came around, he had become very famous due to the role and now had lots of clout then. He literally blew up the first Insurrection script because he simply didn’t like it. I don’t think he could do that anywhere else like the X Men movies for example, but on Star Trek he has that power. He can now make demands as we saw with Picard too.
Meanwhile Pine is still complaining he hasn’t read a script for any of the films yet which tells you he may be considered a ‘star’ in the Kelvin movies, but he’s still very far from being A list status when he has zero power on any of the Trek movies. In that case, he is still very much an actor for hire.
urban’s biggest non ST film was ‘thor Ragnarök’.
Yeah I forgot about that one, but he wasn’t the ‘star’ just a supporting role. But I certainly liked him in it. I hated when they killed him off (spoilers).
You would be mistaken on the assumption that the Kelvin cast is languishing, they are all very much gainfully employed, and will be into the foreseeable future. Even if Paramount did call, they would be idiotic to clear their schedules for a movie that may, or may not get made.
Um, I never said or implied they were ‘languishing’ just that they aren’t all big movie stars either, that’s all. Yeah they all get plenty of work, but like Tiger2 was saying, they do everything from voice work to guest staring in TV shows like most working actors.
Taylor Sheridan and his shows get way too much money! They would be better off diversifying their content than rely on him. His one man show gets real old real quick. Especially when he inserts himself in the storyline.
The problem with Marvel or even Star Wars shows are the costs. Some of these are more than the budget for a movie! I do think they need to scale expectations back. Star Trek just isn’t a big tent movie. It’s not going to get large crowds into movie theaters.
I think Star Trek Beyond was a fitting end for the cast and crew. Time to move on and spend the money elsewhere. To me Star Trek’s bread and butter has always been on TV. Better to do more in that format than trying for a blockbuster that isn’t likely to appear.
I agree with all of this. And I seen a few of the Sheridan shows, they are good but just not my thing personally.
But here is the thing, I can tell you several people I know personally that’s watched his shows, especially Yellowstone. And where I live it resonates a lot. But I can’t tell you a single person today I know who is watching any of the new Trek shows. I got one coworker to try out Lower Decks and Picard and this was years ago and he’s been watching Trek since the 60s. He just hated the idea of paying for them.
But even though Trek isn’t gaining a lot of new fans, it still belongs on TV more than the movies. Maybe not any of them will ever be as big as TNG back in the day, but they don’t have to be either.
But once you start spending $200 million for the movies, you have to turn them into Marvel or Star Wars to compete with those and they still come nowhere close, so why bother?
If you can’t make cheaper movies then just stick to TV.
So true the recent Yellowstone finale had fantastic ratings for the networks. Paramount + doesn’t have the streaming rights, Peacock does, but they are still getting loads of publicity and money for the show as it airs live. Something which most shows dream about having.
Personally I think Sheridan is a bit suspect filming on his own ranch and billing the network for it. However, they know it’s going on so clearly what he brings in matters more. You are also right it’s currently something that really resonates with people. Love it or hate it. Sadly Star Trek just doesn’t have that current audience. Its shows, when aired in network tv, aren’t pulling in those kinds of ratings.
TG is right on this. Most of the guys I have lunch with at work are watching the Sheridan shows and talking about it. Most of my golf group, if they are talking about any show, it’s the Sheridan shows now. Two years ago they were not Paramount subscribers, and now they all are. Paramount now has more subscribers than Hulu and twice that of Peacock and three times Apple+.
Make no mistake on how much lovers (and potential new lovers) of star trek are out there. Star trek can be successful in theaters, otherwise there would not have been 13(!!!) theatrical entries of it, over a timescale of about 4 DECADES/40 years!!! That’s more then the biggest franchise in history can deliver with “only” 9 theatrical entries, which is star wars.
The thing is both Trek and Wars are in the same boat right now. Both franchises ended their latest trilogies which not only ended their runs in theaters for coming on a decade now but also pushed them to TV and shows that take place in the past because in universe they just don’t know how to move forward.
there have been big gaps between ‘star wars’ trilogies before so it no big thing, next up is ‘mando/grogu’.
but this is the longest gap between ST films so far.
Star Wars has 11 movies, not 9.
and to say that Trek is more successful in theaters because if that is hilarious. Even the SW stinkers make more money than the best Trek movies. If you add up all the Trek movies, they probably don’t reach the box office of just SW7.
ST09 and Into Darkness were big money makers, but most fans complain about JJ and Bad Robot.
for me, I am fine with never getting another film again. The series are better and you get 10 episodes a season every one or two years instead of a single movie every 3-8 years.
“And to say that Trek is more successful in theaters because of that is hilarious. Even the SW stinkers make more money than the best Trek movies. If you add up all the Trek movies, they probably don’t reach the box office of just SW7.”
I mean yeah! It’s not even close lol. And to follow your logic, The Force Awakens didn’t make more money than every Trek film combined, but still pretty close. It made more money than the last 12 of 13 Trek movies starting from the highest to the lowest. That’s insane. And yes, of course if you take in inflation those movies would be higher but that would include TFA itself and it would still make more than ten of those movies even now.
And that’s one movie. It’s certainly true SW is not the powerhouse it used to be, but like Marvel, it still has the potential to make billion dollar movies in the future. I mean as much grief as people gave the last one, ROS still made a billion dollars just the same.
They can make Star Trek movies for the next 20 years, it will never make a billion dollars.
All i know if when a Tom Cruise Mission Impossible can flop and Indiana Jones can flop, in the current tentpole environment can Star Trek survive at a 200-300 million dollar budget. I think a new Kelvin timeline film will make even less than Beyond. The film landscape has changed.
People can stay home and watch their streaming television shows with movie level effects and effectively get movies of the week, while shows are in production. To the expert they can tell the difference between tv cgi and movie cgi, but general audience does not care.
I’m shocked Indy bombed as I thought it was a great movie (aside PWB) with a genius plot , I guess it just came at the wrong time with Barbie/Oppenheimer there , had it come out closer to TFA which brought Ford back into the mainstream in a huge way so like 2017/18 it probably would’ve done double what it did .
Also The Flash bombing was another bafflement to me as it was basically like a Batman 89 legacy sequel with the added spectacle of Keatons Batman zooming into ‘Man of Steel’ to take on Zod! (as well as all the DC cameos) But I guess the implosion of the DCEU and the lead actor scuppered it all
SW7…wasn’t that the script with the mystery box?
It copied Star Wars 1977 nearly beat for beat in its editing timeline. Were you to play them side by side you’d say what a complete lack of originality. The only conceivable difference is Rey fought Kylo in the first one and Rey didn’t blow up Starkiller base with the force. You still had dollar store Vader and everyone said this is like New Coke. For those that remember the reference. Sith who aren’t Sith, and an Empire that isn’t the Empire and Resistance Vs First order, they just did rebels vs empire again.
They were requels. Remakes of the entire original trilogy passed off as sequels. Which completely ruined Luke, Han and Leia as characters. And only Lando came out unscathed.
Now to me they weren’t completely worthless because I like Poe, Rey, Finn and Rose. But I do wish they did something original.
Star Wars has had 12 movies/theatrical releases actually.
The main 9 (OT, PT, ST) and The Clone Wars, Rogue One and Solo.
And ewok movies
I never watched a Sheridan show until last year when I checked out Lioness on Paramount+ in between Star Trek shows. I really liked it a lot and then got into a few more with Yellowstone, 1923, Bass Reeves and 1883. I plan to check out a few others soon. But they are all very adult gritty shows with a lot of layers. Paramount is spending a crazy amount on them, but considering most of them get much higher views than Star Trek does and seem to be popular among all demographics I understand why they do it. He currently has 7 shows on that site alone. So he’s already made more shows than modern Trek shows have and has more coming.
But same time, like what happened with the new Trek shows, they can still be making too much too fast. But I guess until one of the shows take a major nose dive in views, they are going to keep making as many as possible. So they can justify those budgets, at least for now. Not even close with Star Trek.
But I agree, Trek just does better on TV and its true home. I certainly want another film, but if the only way they will make another one has to compete with Marvel or Star Wars, then don’t expect another film anytime soon. And since it’s been over 8 years now, I think we have well gone past the ‘anytime soon’ part. ;)
Zachary Quinto is starring in a Broadway play right now. That’s not too shabby.
Cool. And he’s the lead in a new NBC show called Brilliant Minds. I heard it’s really good too and doing very well in the ratings, but haven’t seen it yet.
I could be wrong, but I think that’s the first time he’s played a regular in a TV show since Heroes.
Yes, because Legacy wouldn’t be ‘looking backwards’ at all.
It’s about looking forward to the “next-next generation”.
I think the biggest mistake that Matalas did was give the potential spin off the name ‘Legacy’ because it just comes back to this idea it’s only going to be old characters on the show when the reality is literally the opposite, at least based on his own words.
Maybe he should’ve just called it the Next Next Generation instead lol.
Nah, Legacy was okay. It just needs MORE Legacy characters, like Sisko’s child with Kassidy and some descendant of Kirk.
But people seem to identify the show as having more legacy characters instead of newer ones when Matalas has made it clear it’s not supposed to be TNG 2.0, it will have its own identify and a group of new characters just like Picard originally did.
And I don’t think the idea is to just put legacy character’s kids on the show either. It would probably just be Jack and Sydney like last time. But I would be fine of another appeared.
And yes legacy characters will appear on it but legacy characters appear on all these shows today so that’s not really anything special at this point.
If you can squeeze the Doctor in SFA, all bets are off.
Yes I completely agree. People judge the show concept based on one season. Some characters would have returned but not most of the TNG cast. It had a lot going for it including a never before explored era of the franchise. Also while fans here might not like former cast members returning that’s clearly not the case overall. Otherwise you’re right why include the Doctor? Truth be told some DO want to see them. Ideally a mix of both is the way to go.
It’s doubtful that the intent of Legacy was to have established Trek characters show up every week or for every episode to make references to the extended Trek Universe…
…that’s what Lower Decks was, heh.
Actually that’s not true. The first season of Lower Decks for example only had two episodes where legacy characters showed up and it was the last two and Q was literally just a quick cameo.
And the same thing this season, there were only two episodes that had them and at the end of the season. Technically the finale had some, but they were in it for 30 seconds and had no speaking roles. And they only referenced one legacy characters which was Naomi Wildman.
If you want an example of shows that has legacy characters in every episode, that’s Prodigy, SNW and Picard because legacy characters actually star on those shows. And even with SNW, if you don’t count the main stars on the show, half the season still has legacy characters showing up in cameo or guest roles.
Season 2 had seven episodes of supporting characters appearing like April, T’Pring, Amanda, Scotty and Kirk who showed up in 3 episodes alone.
Picard season 3 had practically a legacy cameo in every episode.
The irony to your post is that LDS probably had the least episodes of legacy characters and references last season outside of Discovery compared to the other shows.
Prodigy and Picard were conceived as sequels to existing series, the same way that Strange New Worlds was conceived as a prequel to an existing series.
Therefore, appearances by characters from those series (whether played or voiced by the original actors as is the case with PRO and PIC or played by new actors as is the case with SNW) is to be expected and part of the premise.
With LDS, all of those appearances were gratuitous since that was supposed to be an original series about its own separate crew made up of new characters.
We are unlikely to ever see a Star Trek series or movie in which everyone aboard the ship is as familiar with EVERYTHING that has EVER happened across the ENTIRELY of Star Trek as the crew of the Cerritos were.
It’s like someone took the same Star Trek fatigue that was blamed for the premature ending of Enterprise and turned it into a series.
Had Lower Decks taken place at the academy or a museum, then the references to Trek lore and appearances by existing characters would have made more sense.
“Therefore, appearances by characters from those series (whether played or voiced by the original actors as is the case with PRO and PIC or played by new actors as is the case with SNW) is to be expected and part of the premise.”
You’re still missing the entire point though, they still made those shows as an excuse to just dump as many legacy characters as they could instead of just making shows with more original characters like LDS, so what is the difference?
Even Discovery had multiple legacy characters show up in the first two seasons when it was still in the 23rd century and they literally had Pike in every episode in season 2 Even though the guy has his own ship and crew. Was that not “gratuitous”?
So if LDS decided that the senior staff would just be filled with legacy characters like Bashir, Worf, Tuvok and Dax, but the lower deckers would be the same characters we have now then that would be OK? Because that’s basically what all the other shows did minus Discovery.
And SNW is very gratuitous because they are pushing in TOS characters that should’ve even be seen this early like Kirk and T’Pring. Kirk is constantly showing up on a ship he won’t be captain for at least 5 years. Why is Kirk there so early? Because his name is James T Kirk, that’s why. T’Pring never even met anyone on TOS because her and Spock didn’t get together again until Amok
Time. But on this show she knows them all and hang on the ship with Spock.
They could’ve waited to put more TOS characters in the show and just had Pike, Spock and Una as the only TOS characters but they turned it into a TOS crew after two seasons.
And then look at all the new characters related to legacy characters like Burnham being Spocks sister or Soji being Data daughter or Laban being Khan’s descendant and so on.
When it was Berman Trek, they didn’t do any of this. All those shows had original characters. There would be some crossovers but you didn’t have Spock show up on TNG multiple times every season either.
And I don’t have a big problem with it. I like seeing legacy characters if it makes sense in the story. It’s just funny how you excuse all the other shows of finding ways to bring these characters in every season but claim LDS is doing it the most when that’s not even true. You said legacy characters appear every episode which isn’t true at all. Third season had the most but that season only had five episodes where they appeared. All the others were less.
Agreed on nearly all of this. I just think it’s such odd logic how people compartmentalize this stuff. At the end of the day, it’s ALL feeding off of fan service and nostalgia. Yes, some shows, like Prodigy, handles it better with it than other shows but they are all marketed with the same brush and to expect one (or several) of your favorite legacy characters to make an appearance at some point because it generates lots of headlines and trends on social media, regardless who shows up at this point. They know what they are doing.
Every time Harry/Emily shows up to give the same argument for the 200th time, he is very much right in one respect and that the modern shows have conditioned fans to expect to see legacy characters in basically every show. Discovery has been a bit disconnected from that the last three seasons but that’s clearly due to its setting. But it was also the first show that took a legacy character like Pike, and essentially made him a co-lead for an entire season.
There is zero reason why BOTH Kirks are showing up multiple times a season on SNW beside the fact they both share the last name Kirk. That is literally it. SNW has basically just turned into a quasi-TOS show as more of those characters show up on the ship…and never leave.
Yes, LDS is very flagrant with it, but the show was designed to bring in legacy characters just like PIC, PRO and SNW does. There is literally no difference between any of these shows. Wesley showed up for half a season in Prodigy. They also had two Janeways on that show for both seasons. Do they need two Janeways? Yeah, probably not, but no one is complaining about it either lol.
And that’s also the difference with LDS, because most of the Legacy characters are mostly just cameos. None of them ever had a season long arc like the other shows and Riker is the only character that appeared in more than two episodes after five seasons. McMahan has a very different view. He wants to show case as many as he can, but the stories are always about the original characters first and foremost. But you can’t argue that with PRO, SNW and season 3 of Picard because even the supporting legacy characters have story arcs on those shows, from Q to Kirk.
I dunno if Kirk should have a descenadnt. It was a big part of his character that he lost David and that his true love was the Enterprise. One of the few good things about STV was Kirk proclaiming men like us don’t have families.
Kirk’s nephew survived, though. So, it be Sam Kirk’s descendant, heh. Same family tree.
isn’t the whole descendant of Khan what they did in a fanfilm. and in SNW.
‘Star Trek: Cameo’ is just way too pandering….
Lol but I’m sure someone considered it.
Hey, it is what it is…..
That’s been the franchise since 2009. And yeah, why it still shocks people these shows and movies are filled with them 15 years later you got me?
But that’s also the disconnect because the overwhelming majority of fans aren’t bothered by more legacy characters. You know I’m certainly not. Maybe people on boards like this complain about it but most places it’s the opposite.
This is not really up for debate because if fans truly had a problem with it, they would be adding less characters and not more. Something in the data is telling them the opposite.
Look at the viewing numbers. Look at the episodes and how high the audience scores are when legacy characters appear. What was the most popular episodes of LDS this season? I don’t have to say them because we know what they are. And the episodes people are still talking about now.
Why is SNW so popular? And how did we even get SNW again? Thats right people loved having Pike and Spock back. Why is Picard season 3? Also because how amazing it was to have the TNG cast together again.
Who is complaining about Scotty being on SNW? How many complained about the Doctor being on Prodigy and now SFA? Or Rachel Garret in Section 31? I see little to none.
People try to pretend there is some hand wringing over having so many legacy characters and yet that has not bared out on any of these shows since Pike and Spock showed up on Discovery .
It is what it is because fans love all these appearances and can’t get enough of them.
And it’s obviously not going away.
Yes also agreed. I don’t think the majority of fans care if they decided every episode of every show would have another legacy character on it.
The only time you see people complain about it is when its done badly like Riker and Troi in TATV and ‘Khan’ in STID. Kirk in SNW seems to be a somewhat divisive character but mostly because he doesn’t feel like he should appear this soon in the timeline and lots of people just think how the actor plays him sucks. But I don’t have any doubt most fans want to see more Kirk as much as they want to see Seven, Spock, Worf, T’Pol, Kira, etc.
The only reason we have so many of these characters now because every time they pop up, there is literally a fangasm over it. As you stated, LDS gave us characters people haven’t seen (but been begging to have) like Bashir, T’Pol and Garak. And even though it’s not the original versions, people were still excited to see them since they were still played by the original actors. That episode is literally the highest LDS episode of the entire show.
I agree (and have said so many times) that they probably rely on these appearances too much. Yes, Picard season 3 probably went overboard with it, but it’s also the highest viewed and highest rated season out of all the modern shows so far. People pointed out its only due to all the fan service and nostalgia. Yeah, and?? Hollywood is only surviving on fan service and nostalgia these days. My guess is if we all looked at the top ten shows or movies we are watching, chances are most of them are filled with characters we already been watching for decades in some form. And if you’re an executive at Paramount whose job it is to get fans to watch these shows as much as possible, what do you do with that data? That’s the entire reason they begged Patrick Stewart to come back in the first place.
I’m going to keep saying this, but this isn’t the 90s anymore. Star Trek is obviously still a big brand, but it’s also one that is on a struggling streaming service behind a pay wall and with a LOT more competition in this space with much bigger IPs today. There were no Star Wars shows in the 90s to compete with TNG, DS9 and VOY. Today, there are just as many as those as there are Trek shows.
They are doing everything they can to keep people subscribing. I get a lot of people here want more original content and characters. I include myself in that and that was the number one reason I was happy we got shows in the 32nd century like Discovery and now SFA, so some shows can just be their own thing. It’s nice to finally have ONE show that doesn’t have every other episode saying ‘hey, remember this guy??? Or do you remember that TNG/TOS episode???’
And yet, they still figured out a way to make those shows with heavy nostalgia as season 5 of Discovery did and now another iconic legacy character is returning on SFA with the Doctor. This is not going away. Even if we never get Legacy, we will still be seeing those characters in other shows regardless. And what’s funny is, besides Newsome’s comedy show where she makes clear it’s going to be filled with legacy characters, the only two pitches we know they are considering was a different Seven spin off show and a possible Janeway project if they can convince Mulgrew it will be worth putting on the uniform again.
None of those projects may ever happen but we all see the through line no matter what show ends up in that period.
Don’t think Legacy is going to happen. And I think that’s a good thing.
Trek streaming movies have a lot of potential, not sure if S31 was the best one to start with, but plenty of potential Trek stories would suit the streaming movie format and serve the fans.
Trek Streaming film personal wish list:
I do hope we see more that serve to expand the existing universe.
Paramount+ should make a Star Trek streaming movie that shows how the Tasha Yar from Yesterday’s Enterprise ended up trapped on the Romulan homeworld and, ultimately, died trying to escape.
It could open with Denise Crosby as an older Sela recounting to someone the story of how she killed her mother, then flashbacks to the events immediately following Yesterday’s Enterprise in which another actress plays Tasha.
Great ideas – but the elephant in the room, the “writers” of Nu-Trek cant write!!
Except Legacy is looking backwards. No one anywhere even pretends its nothing more than squeezing as many Berman era Trek characters as possible into a season or two.
I’m okay with a Kelvin Trek direct to P+.
The only people that was confirmed for Legacy were the people who warped out with Seven on the Enterprise G. Matalas said it wouldn’t be about the TNG guys, but the people after them. I don’t doubt they would pop up but they wouldn’t be the main focus like we got in Picard.
And they don’t need the Legacy show to squeeze in more Berman characters, they already been doing that on LDS, Prodigy and now the Doctor on SFA.
And Tawny Newsome already said if her comedy show gets approved she plans to bring in a lot of those characters on that show too. I’m betting it’s a big reason it’s even getting developed.
In other words, no matter what the next show is, they will find a way to do that regardless.
I must have some of the oddest best and dear friends who are Star Trek fans. We all like the new Kurtzman Treks. Discovery has wonderful moments and both Picard and Discovery had amazing final seasons. While slow, I loved season two of Picard because it dealt with a variety of childhood trauma issues. We all like SNW and all but one of us likes lower Decks. Hell my 23 year old son’s name is Benjamin Avery …….
I didn’t say no one liked NuTrek. I said no one I know has ever watched them.
And I like most of the shows too. The ones I don’t I won’t bring up because it always trigger some people lol.
Nobody was “confirmed” for Legacy, it’s basically an internet rumor run amuck. Shows centered in the Berman era, done properly can use the characters. Prodigy and LD’s found that balance. P-S3 didn’t, and all the chatter about what Legacy should be wasn’t bashful about it being the Trek guest star of the week.
I’ll pass…..and there’s a reason Matalas never got that call.
Matalas said in an interview before season 3 even started that the TNG characters were not going to star in the spin off. He then said after it aired that show would revolve Seven and her crew on Enterprise G. He lays it out pretty clearly.
Legacy isn’t Picard season 4. Picard season 3 was literally meant as TNG’s swan song. It was about giving those characters the ending they didn’t get in Nemesis.
The spin off would be about the new characters we saw in season 3. That’s exactly why Worf wasn’t Seven’s new first officer or Beverly running sick bay on the Enterprise G.
I don’t know why this is so hard for people to grasp?
And you are going to get Berman characters no matter what, so what’s the difference??? Here is a direct quote from Tawny Newsome discussing her show and bringing in legacy characters if it gets picked up…
“… like everyone in the Picard era, all of our friends here from Lower Decks, like the possibility is definitely there. That was why I was like, this is the time period I want so that we don’t have to [de-age] Jonathan Frakes’ face [laughs]. Like let, let everybody kind of be vaguely the ages they are. We have nothing actually planned so this isn’t a spoiler, but that was definitely the promise of setting it in that time period.”
So what’s the difference man? They are going to be part of any new show that takes place in the 24th or 25th century as we have seen for years now. She even wants to bring in the LDS cast on the show. Do you honestly think they would be considering a show like this by a LDS actress and super fan if it didn’t bring in more legacy characters?
You can’t be this naive.
And Matalas probably never got that call the same reason Zoe Saldana still hasn’t got the call to do another Kelvin movie yet, Paramount can’t afford that type of show and movie and why we now have this comedy and the Starfleet prequel movie as substitutes.
they need to get the ST movies back on the big screen again- been 45 years since TMP and there needs to be new film a s a p.
Absolutely, but NOT the Kelvin movies.
In my ideal scenario, the next movie would be a Strange New Worlds film that follows from the last episode of whenever that series ends which plot involves Pike’s accident and Kirk taking over as captain of the Enterprise.
I don’t see a SNW movie being a theatrical one though because to be honest I don’t think any of the streaming shows have pulled a large amount of people to become movies.
But streaming movies like Section 31, sure.
The Kelvin movies are a dissapointment but I would still watch a Kelvin movie over any of the TV fake Trek any day. Personally I am not bothered if we do not get a 4th kelvin movie, they are not adding anything to the legacy of Star Trek but as I say I will watch one if it gets made. I will never watch any of the garbage on TV though until someone who gets Star Trek starts making it
Final warning for gatekeeping
She shouldn’t be too concerned about the grey hair. The Trek fandom is used to seeing their heroes get older. Nothing wrong with that at all.
Chris Pine was already getting grey hair in Beyond and that was 8 years ago.
I can’t believe it has been nearly a decade since the last Kelvin film, and they are still talking about making another.
I remember saying if they didn’t get a movie out by 2020 it may feel too late by then since so many of the audience had moved on. It’s now nearly 5 years later and they are still talking about doing another one lol. And that’s been the problem, it’s literally been nothing but talk for 8 years now.
I guess it just speaks to the fact Paramount doesn’t have many options in terms of big IPs. It basically was Transformers, Mission Impossible and Star Trek for the last 20 or so years, especially once they lost Indiana Jones to Disney. TFs and MI were at least guaranteed money makers but now those are not as guaranteed as they once were (and MI 8 could be the final one for a long time if Tom Cruise is done).
They seem to know the Kelvin movies ran out of gas but seem too afraid to pivot and try something new. Yeah they keep suggesting they will try but like the Starfleet movie, those keep getting stalled as well. They sadly seem to be in a rock and a hard place with this franchise.
I will say that while I have moved on….its clear it still generates interest. These articles always gets lots of comments from fans.
Exactly.
Yeah true, but that’s because most people actually do want another movie of some kind, Kelvin or not. But it’s the frustration by most because we keep getting the same two narratives: A. Paramount plans to make another movie. But it’s also B. No one knows anything if and when the next movie will get made. And it literally feels like no one, including the actors, directors and writers they keep hiring to make one.
And then that movie gets cancelled to start the process all over again with the promise of yet another movie. This is why everyone has become both apathetic and jaded over it and basically use these articles to vent more than anything.
I even tried to stop posting in them for awhile because it’s the same useless stuff again and again; but I realize how much I enjoy venting lol.
Didn’t he have chestnut brown hair in Beyond? (and it was styled more like TOS kirk than the previous films) He had like frosted blonde highlights in ID (and styled the opposite way to TOS kirk). He’s gone abit grey in real life though , maybe thats what Zoe was referring to lol (there’s no way she’s gonna go grey anytime soon)
Grey hair. And way too many trips to the all you can eat taco bar….
Yeah, this is a strange one. I actually feel sorry for whoever has to take on this project.
The cast is great and there is actually a lot of potential for Trek on the big screen….just not sure if this crew has any legs now. It’s been too long since the last film. General audiences did not connect with the Kelvin trilogy enough and Trek fans eventually disengaged. Now Trek is doing well on streaming and there is no real appetite for a Trek film. Even the ‘Starfleet origin-story’ is likely going to have an uphill struggle. Big IP films are flopping left and right (F&F/Star Wars/Indiana Jones).
And all this talk of the OG crew making films into their 60s doesn’t apply to Kelvin. TOS was beloved with a dedicated fan base. The ‘Genesis Trilogy’ was enough to carry the TOS films over the finish line of TUC despite TFF’s failure, and TNG (with TOS cameos and a shared continuity) was a hit on TV. The films didn’t require ridiculous budgets to be competitive, and no one was wanting half-billion to a billion box office numbers from Trek films back then.
I just don’t see what story could win back the fanbase, and appeal to general audiences enough to at least gross $400-$450m B.O. Especially when they’ve already announced it’s the last one with this crew (a big mistake), and it would be on streaming eventually anyway. Where’s the draw?
I know it’s been said many times, but STID really screwed this crew over, this part of the franchise never got over that disappointment, and Beyond was genuinely a good film.
I agree with all of this. Non-Trek audiences don’t seem to be all that interested in Trek and Trek audiences don’t seem to be interested in THIS Trek. Compounded with a huge, divisive split over what makes good Trek these days, I don’t know if trotting the Kelvin gang out one more time is the way to go. Then again, some feel that trotting Georgieu out one more time isn’t the way to go either, some feel that trotting legacy characters out again isn’t the way to go.
All I can say is that I’m glad I’m not responsible for sating this angry, burned out, hurt fan base.
“I just don’t see what story could win back the fanbase, and appeal to general audiences enough to at least gross $400-$450m B.O. Especially when they’ve already announced it’s the last one with this crew (a big mistake), and it would be on streaming eventually anyway. Where’s the draw?”
You hit it on the head with your post but this point especially is the entire problem. Back in 2009, they probably wanted these films to eventually be their version of Marvel, DC or Transformers in terms of BO and see them steadily grow. Since they were spending just as much money as all of those (and in some cases more), the expectation was to see $500+ million movies and probably even up to a billion dollars like all of those have hit. Or why spend $200 million in the first place if you’re only making money movies half that price tag usually make?
It never happened nor really came close. But at least there was still the potential back then to do more. Today, it feels like a climb just to even hit $400 million for these movies. And they clearly know that. A lot has already changed since 2009 and that was when these movies had real hype and interest behind them. Today, it’s just more cluttered IP content in an era filled with it everywhere on streaming and in the cinema. Disney is scared to even make more Star Wars movies and the last one still did a billion dollars. Paramount last ‘hit’ was Mission Impossible 7 and that only pulled in $570 million.
Another Star Trek movie will probably do between $3-400 million, ie, what the last one did and that was 8 years ago. And yes, it could do even worse.
The new audience of fans they were counting on moved on after STID and the fanbase has been highly split on them after the first one. There is just no big appetite for a big tent pole Trek movie. There wasn’t one back in 2016 and I think it’s less so now.
Personally I think they should just pull a Picard season 3 and make a mini-series on Paramount+ with this cast to say good bye. It’s just way less riskier and I’m guessing where most people will end up watching the movie anyway.
the next ‘star wars’ film is ‘mandolorian and grogu’, out in 2026.
Thanks.
General audiences did connect with the Kelvin movies though, at least the first 2, which were comparable to the Xmen movies at the time. Worldwide ST09 outgrossed the summer competition of XMen Origins, Terminator 4 (and domestic outgrossed AngelsDemons, 2012) and ID outgrossed The Wolverine (and domestic World War Z, Thor 2), and when you adjust for inflation ST09 did about 550m, ID 650m, even Beyond is about 450m now .
Obviously now its been almost a decade but that still doesn’t rule out a box office success as they now fall into the ‘legacy sequel’ category, ok they might continue the downward box office from Beyond and barely scrape 250-300m ww , or .. (if the movies good and hits some nostalgia for old time fans and newer fans who were kids when ST09 came out) it could break out like Mission Impossible 4 did and be the biggest so far (and potentially fast tracking ST5,6 etc)
“ok they might continue the downward box office from Beyond and barely scrape 250-300m ww”
That’s the problem, based on how well Beyond did, the chances are higher the next movie will just do these numbers instead of what Mission Impossible movies do.
And no one wants to risk $100+ million to find out. Especially when Paramount is already struggling as it is
Maybe if there wasn’t so much new Trek on streaming today, they might be more inclined.
But the reality is we have Kirk, Spock, Uhura on SNW now and where people can watch them for a few dollars a month. Most fans lost interest in JJ verse when there was no Picard, LDS, SNW, etc.
It’s no longer 2009. The hype died for these movies over a decade ago. Sure I’ll go see it but I think it will just be me and the 50 people who sat with me when Beyond came out.
I doubt many mainstream average moviegoers/casual fans are even aware of much of the stream Treks aside maybe knowing there was a new series with Michelle Yeoh and a new Pike/Spock, and a TNG sequel series with Picard. Its not like the 90s where TNG was a major hit TV series eventually competing with TOS in popularity to the extent they started to incorporate TNG stuff into the TOS movies .
So long as they make a (100m budget) ST4 exciting to average moviegoers and Trek fans (like ST09/ID) they’ll hit that breakout sweet spot that TVH, FC, ST09/ID did (which would be around 500m these days)
Transformers hasn’t made a $500 million movie since The Last Knight back in 2017, you think the next Star Trek movie will?? And after the last one bombed?
Mission Impossible 7 barely crossed that and the last movie before it made almost $800 million.
And I don’t think casual audiences will remotely care, it mostly will be the hardcore fans on boards like this who will go. Some will go, but I’m guessing most will just wait for it on streaming in two months.
That’s their biggest problem, unless they truly excite the fans most will just wait it out because they know it will be on Paramount+ soon anyway.
And Paramount obviously knows this. If that ‘sweet spot’ was so easy as you say then how come nearly 9 years later there is still not another movie in production? The 60th anniversary is now less than 2 years away, wouldn’t that have been the perfect time to bring back the Kelvin crew?
So why aren’t they doing that? Because they still remembered how badly the last movie did for the 50th anniversary.
Paramount made clear how much faith they don’t have in JJ verse anymore when they decided to put a Starfleet prequel movie no one wants with new characters ahead of it.
I don’t see that movie exciting hardly anyone and yet that is supposed to be coming next.
Its all Beyonds fault, if it just hadn’t been a subpar movie
I know you don’t like the movie but you can’t blame it all on Beyond. The reality is people were already losing interest in these movies and STID made clear these weren’t going to be the big billion dollar hits the studio was hoping for.
I was saying as far back as 2013 the next movie couldn’t have the budget STID had. It was simply too big on what they got on their return. It doesn’t mean the next movie couldn’t do well or even better than STID, but at that point the expectations should’ve been lowered at least a little.
It wasn’t. Instead they double down on the budget and strangely thought people would just pour in to see it even with a lackluster marketing campaign and during a month with very heavy competition. The reason the other two did better because they were smart to put it early in the summer season and they were one of the big films out the gate. But with Beyond, by the time that movie rolled around, people had their fill of explosions and CGI fests for months. Yes, if it was a Marvel movie, it wouldn’t have mattered. But it’s not a Marvel movie, it’s still Star Trek.
But I do agree if they had a movie that had a bigger hook and better marketed, it could’ve done better. But I still highly doubt it would’ve made more than STID because as said the hype was already dying for these movies. And once Star Wars came back, it sucked up the remaining oxygen in the room. And this is NOT a real comparison but just an observation but the last time a Star Trek movie bombed was Nemesis that came out the same year Attack of the Clones did. With TFA and Beyond coming out roughly the same time span between both movies, history felt like it was repeating itself.
That’s why no one should be shocked they are so hesitant to make another Kelvin movie because both the environment and general interest for these movies have only gotten worse over the years and not better.
Hiding idris elba under make up didn’t help we either
Also true.
Yeah absolutely Beyond got a bad release date (similar to TOS s3 Friday night slot, ironic bc Beyond was like the equivalent of a bad s3 TOS ep), as there were a ton of CGI spectacles released in the months before, and of those a heap of disappointments to jade audiences BvS, XMen, Independence Day 2, Tarzan, Ghostbusters, TMNT2, BFG etc (the only one to really hit with audiences was Cap America 3 which was like Avengers 2.5)
And yeah if we got my prefered Orci ST3 with Shatner battling to save the timeline maybe it’d have done abit better, but unless there’s been better promotion/trailers and bigger 50th celebrations I dont think it’d have done all that much more than Beyond. But if there was better promotion/bigger anniversary like the 25th.. who knows ?
And as you say the return of SW was also a huge factor, Beyond landing smack between the seismic events of TFA and Rogue 1 (and Guardians in 2014 which made Paramount go ‘hey make ST more like that will ya’). No chance
So ultimately Beyond just had a heap of bad luck (in addition to being a bad movie imo lol)
Back in the day, the Trek movies were the only way to see most of those actors – who felt like family after years of reruns. And they were some of the only sci fi around.
These movies aren’t that. The first one was a good one-off 15 years ago. But now, a new movie is just another 100 minutes out of thousands of hours of decent sci fi (and Trek) content.
Considering it will be 9 years since Beyond came out and we still have zero Trek movies in production, I have a feeling she will be waiting a long, long time if ever at this point.
I remember people argued that Beyond didn’t really bomb but just underperformed. Well describe it how you will, the reality is if that movie did better we would’ve had another one years ago at this point. I still don’t even understand why they are trying to even make another Kelvin movie when they already said it will be the last one anyway. Just focus on the supposed Starfleet prequel that they announced as the next thing and see what comes of that. But since that has gone absolutely nowhere either, that may be a pipe dream like the last 4 or 5 projects they announced.
But the reality is Paramount is hurting badly! Top Gun Maverick was their biggest movie ever back in 2022 with $1.4 billion, but it’s only been marginal successes since. The second highest performing film after that one was Mission Impossible 7 with around $570 million that came out last year. And that essentially bombed given its huge pandemic size budget. They have had hits with stuff like Sonic, Quiet Place, Smile, etc, but all those are basically low to mid budget movies and produced in the range of $2-400 million in terms of BO. The bigger latest stuff like Transfomers, Dungeons and Dragons, Gladiator 2, etc have all either underperformed or bombed and all made under $500 million.
That’s exactly why no one is rushing another Star Trek movie out of the door. A $150+ million Star Trek film was already a risky proposition when the last one didn’t make any money; it’s even riskier today when once billion dollar Transformers movies are now just making $400 million. Imagine how much worse another Star Trek movie can do today given the studios horrible track record.
This is exactly why they had to sell the company in the first place. Paramount is just not producing real hits anymore and they can’t rely on Tom Cruise forever.
All good points, they must be nervous about Mission Impossible 8
Thanks!
And yeah I imagine so. But I do think it will do better than Dead Reckoning at least since it could be the final movie and there isn’t another Barbenheiemer situation. How much better is the question though.
Yes no Barbenheiemer situation will help, read this week that Cruise wants the next one to be about a young Ethan Hunt.
Yeah I read that , looks like Mission be heading into ST09 territory after Cruise is finished ,
I could see Final Reckoning getting back up to MI4/5 levels (about 700m) maybe even Fallout (800m), id be shocked if it does closer to MI7s 570m or less. Barbenheiemer really threw a nuclear bomb to the competition that summer , Indiana Jones was another casualty, I actually went to see Indiana Jones in its 2nd week (would’ve gone earlier but didn’t get around to it), got to cinema to find out its evening showings had been hijacked by Barbie which had sold out of its regular showings. So I had to see Mission instead , which I didn’t intend to see at all (I’ve always been hit and miss with bothering seeing Mission at cinema, and i was only interested in seeing Indy and Flash at cinema that summer). I bet Cruise half regrets helping promote Barbie now lol (he participated in a photoshoot showing him with tickets to see Barbie, Oppenheimer, as did Margot Robbie with Mission, Indy etc)
This is on my list of sequels that discussion occasionally surfaces about (in the vein of “still being in the works”), but which I am certain will never happen. See also Hellboy 3 (a perennial on this list until the door was firmly closed on it before the Harbour version), Underworld 6, Sherlock Holmes 3, National Treasure 3, etc.
Sometimes I do get surprised (Bill & Ted, 28 Years Later), but not often.
Someone thought Zoolander II was a great idea. Except the audience…..
I remember back in the 00s i regularly looked at the ‘Corona’ coming attractions website and the centre pages in Cinescape magazine showing all the movies in development hell or otherwise, and remember it seeming like most would never get made, stuff like Mad Max 4, T3, Alien 5, Predator 3, AvP, Jurassic 4, ID2, Indy 4, Batman Year One, Superman 5, Die Hard 4, Total Recall 2, Conan 3 etc but now they’ve all been done and more (some ended up remakes or prequels) , and there’s even been stuff that wasn’t even thought of back then like Star Wars VII and Blade Runner 2. (I remember thinking how fun it would be to be in a coma for 20years and wake up and immediately rent out all the movies that had been made, )
I fully expect Trek 4 (kelvin) will end up happening too eventually (as will those you mentioned, except maybe not a GDT Hellboy 3 lol )
Yes and no. True, many of those did happen but many just became reboots or prequels like Conan, Mad Max, Superman, Total Recall, Aliens, etc. None of the original actors were involved in those movies (remember when Johnathan Frakes was attached to direct Total Recall 2 with Schwarzenegger? Good times!). They basically just changed course because of how long some of these lingered and wanted to reinvent the brand for both new and old audiences.
Which ironically these movies were also meant to do.
No one is doubting we will get another Star Trek movie…eventually. But I don’t think people look at the Kelvin cast the same way as the TOS or TNG cast because they were a reboot as well. That’s why I don’t see something like bringing them back in twenty years or something, at least in movie form. It’s not like bringing Shatner or Stewart back.
And the weird thing is A. They are already moving on with the supposed Starfleet prequel movie and B. They announced this movie will be the last Kelvin movie anyway.
It would be different if they just said they wanted to continue making them and see on a case by case basis. But that already t9ld me they believe these movies have run out of gas and the longer it goes the less motivated they will have to make more once they do replace it as they seem to already be doing.
But all that said one more can still happen. I just think Paramount has probably moved on since it’s been dead in the water after Shakman left. But I been saying this for five years now. Sigh
Once they move on to something else and it’s back in the Prime universe then that will be the final nail in the coffin for JJ verse.
The problem that people aren’t seeing is that that universe never really caught on for both old and new fans. Yeah the first two movies made money, but as been said many times not at the level Paramount was hoping. And then the merchandise never took off for a reason because new fans still didn’t care enough to buy the Fratboy Kirk and Emo Spock action figures on the USS Apple store and old fans just kept buying the old stuff.
Every few weeks there is some new model to buy of Janeway, Kirk or Pike. How many of that stuff do you see with the JJ verse characters today? About 95% of merchandise is based on Prime universe characters. That’s for a reason.
And why isn’t there one Kelvin TV show by now? It doesn’t even get considered. Fans are still talking about a Legacy show or how they can spin off Lower Decks. I don’t hear any ideas for a Kelvin TV show because not enough people care.
And became as said, these aren’t the original actors playing these characters, they are the reboot version of them. They are not going ro hold the same sway. If they show up again, fine, but we already got another Kirk and Spock on SNW so even less of a push for a Kelvin show or movie. No one is pushing for Brandon Routh version of Superman once Cavill showed up and now this new guy. Sure there are fans who love those actors and want them to continue but once the new guy shows up and he’s good then most people just shrug and naturally move on.
That’s happened with every Bond actor too. People fall in love with the one they grew up with and then the next guy takes over and they just keep pushing forward. People love Daniel Craig but he wasn’t Connery either so it’s easy to say they had their time and focus on the newer guy.
Even Sean Connery tried to come back after Rodger Moore became Bond. People definitely love Connery but it just wasn’t the same and most accepted there was a yonger actor playing the role now.
Unless the Star Trek movies just stays vacant until these guys shows up again, most fans will just get into the next thing if it’s good. And more so if it’s back in the Prime universe.
Well, I liked the Kelvin movies. I regret that Beyond wasn’t such a great movie for the anniversary though. If they can keep the budget under 80 million, they should get a decent return. It’d make me very happy if the Shat could abide one last time.
I’d rather have an aged Kelvin movie than the Origin movie prequal rubbish
Yup, same here. No interest whatsoever in an origin story.
Yep, except it seems we are getting neither….
Oh
Devil’s advocate: how can something that has not even been filmed yet be rubbish? Have you seen a script?
No I’m Devil in the dark, of course its the Idea that sounds rubbish. We’ve been there before.
If a 4th movie embraces aging like Wrath of Khan it could be very great to see — this cast is VERY likeable and it’s a different kind of Trek and fun. Always room for more Kelvin Trek!
I’m rather ambivalent about another Kelvin film, and the state of the franchise in general actually, but one thing I am Very Not interested in is more emo-Spock/Uhura romance. No thank you.
She’s not wrong, on both counts. But I also suspect that the Kelvin cast understands that, as far as the big screen is concerned, this ship has likely sailed.
Hell, even this stand alone “origin” feature seems to have gotten sucked into the development black hole. Isn’t that supposed to be in principle photography next quarter (six days from now), based on the spasm of news releases that came out of Paramount during the summer???
It’s been so long between Kelvin films that at this point they’d need to put Mariner and Boimler in it making Mr. Bean faces in the background in between explaining to the audience who everybody is and what’s going to happen.
Now THAT I would watch.
Lol! McMahan would probably be up for it at least.
😅👍
Obviously people have varying opinions, but IF this movie ever gets made, I hope they learned their lesson from Beyond. The lack of promotion for the film – and the fiftieth anniversary overall – was ‘beyond’ abysmal.
As a piece of film, Beyond felt (and still feels) more Trekkian than Into Darkness (to me anyway), although I tend to poke more holes in it now than I did when it came out.
Since the Enterprise-A was being constructed at the conclusion of the last film, I would enjoy one final Kelvin film that moved the cast forward at least a decade.
Beyond def felt more like a bog (sub)standard ‘star trek’ (like Insurrection Nemesis, TFF) than ST09/ID which felt like event movies (like TWOK, TVH, FC) , so that in addition to a relatively light celebration of the 50th heralded the end of the kelvinverse (so far) .
What they could do for the 60th is go all out celebration wise like the 25th (multiple docs, tie in SNW eps, books etc), and a big event ‘finale’ TUC style movie (directed by JJ Abrams, adapting Orci’s abandoned save the timeline ST3 script with CG Shatner borrowed from Otoy). I’m sure there will be some kind of celebrations (docs, tie in eps), but a Starfleet origin movie feels like if they’d done Harve Bennetts Academy movie for the 25th instead of the fantastic ‘Endgame’ of TUC
I found it more disappointing than Nemesis. Into Darkness set up a bunch of things and the next one didn’t follow up a single one. I’ve been calling it a soft reboot for a long while. Guardians of the Furious. I also skipped seeing it in theaters due to that trailer. Now there are things i like in the movie but it just feels so formulaic and lazy. Like a desperate attempt to get those fans back who hated Into Darkness, and at the same time woo the Disney Star Wars and MCU fans.
Lol, it’s been a few months since we heard another JJ verse actor say the same thing once again and they know nothing.
Another movie is not happening. Paramount has been trolling everyone hard for 8 years now. They know the next one could be a nothing burger like the last one. Why put all your resources and energy into a movie that will probably make less than a Sonic the Hedgehog movie.
Avatar 3 will make more money in one weekend than the next Star Trek movie.
Maybe they can make a TV movie and cross it with some of the TNG or VOY cast and maybr more people will care. I would love to see Janeway and Fratboy Kirk mix things up a little. Certainly be interesting.
I wouldn’t mind a “final” Kelvin adventure to wrap things up for this cast. But this film has been in development hell longer than the originally-pitched S31 show that turned into a P+ film.
If they go movie era and throw in David Marcus and Saavik; might just work if they leave off where ST II:TWOK was (and pretend Into Darkness did not happen; what a tragic waste of what could have been the ultimate Trek with Kahn manipulating Starfleet in an alliance with the Klingons and Romulans).
Yes indeed. STID would have been better served by simply keeping John Harrison as the rogue agent.The idea of using the character of Khan was probably to reintroduce him as a recurring villain in subsequent movies had they been made.
I’d pick it up after TUC second star to the right and on til morning.
What is more likely to happen first, a new Star Trek theatrical movie or a new Humphrey Bogart movie?
I’ll bet you a barrel of self-sealing stem bolts that it isn’t the Trek movie (would be happy to be wrong about that)…
Casablanca II starring CG/AI Bogart and Bergman
Make no mistake on how much lovers (and potential new lovers) of star trek are out there. Star trek can be successful in theaters, otherwise there would not have been 13(!!!) theatrical entries of it, over a timescale of about 4 DECADES/40 years!!! That’s more then the biggest franchise in history can deliver with “only” 9 theatrical entries, which is star wars.
Paramount Studios need to get it into their collective minds that Star Trek is never going to be a Marvel or Star Wars-level franchise. It’s never going to happen. Ever.
SW has 13 as well (including Rogue 1, Solo, an Ewok movie and an animated Clone Wars film)
If it’s made, I’ll watch it and I have no doubt I’ll love watching it and will come to cherish it as an entry in the franchise. That being said, I don’t need it and am simultaneously ready for whatever comes after the Kelvin films. Feels win/win for me personally, however I DO look forward to some forward momentum eventually, wherever it leads.
If another Kelvin film doesn’t end up being made, I wouldn’t be against having aspects of it folded into Prime Timeline TV shows to wrap up loose ends. We do have a permanent multiverse gateway now, after all.
At this point the ship really has sailed. If nuTrek was all in the Kelvin timeline, then maybe,, but with it being in the prime timeline, I just don’t see the point of revisiting the Kelvin timeline.
Which is kinda a shame as I really liked Beyond, and it felt like all the actors were finally figuring out how they wanted to play their characters.
No. These star trek movies are utter garbage. JJ ruined star wars and star trek.
I thought Star Trek Beyond was a really poor movie, it looked cheap as anything and the story was “wafer thin” as the waiter serving Mr Creosote would say. Where the heck all that money went is beyond me. It was a long drawn out fairly uninteresting TV movie. It had great moments (as all the Kelvin movies have had to give them their due) but it just did not come together into a satisfying movie. I am looking forward to the origin movie just as much as a 4th Kelvin movie – after 3 disappointments on the big screen why should my expectations be any higher?
Beyond 185m probably had about 30m spent on Orci’s abandoned ST3 (I’ve read the swarm FX and vast starbase were from that version so they just incorporated them into Beyond,.. and who knows what else – pay off Alice Eve? Bryan Cranston? Shatner?)
I’ve interviewed the guy who designed the base and most all the other ship stuff in BEYOND — he goes all the way back to THE FIFTH ELEMENT — and he was hired for the Lin version, not for some speculative preprod on Orci’s script.
Honestly, there is a ton of VFX — good and bad, but mostly unnecessary — in BEYOND and I can easily see that eating up a lot of the budget (which I’ve heard from a couple unconfirmed sources was probably closer to 230 mil — when a pic underperforms, the budget magically seems to shrink afterward to minimize the loss in the public eye, INSURRECTION cost 65-68 mil with reshoots, but they only seem to acknowedge the 58 mil that went into the preview version … QUANTUM OF SOLACE was also maybe 230 but I think they only cop to 190.)
What about No Time to Die. Every reputable source said it had to make 900 million on a reported 300 million dollar budget. Film flops, studio says it didn’t. I didn’t even make 750 million. They didn’t include the delays and reshoots nor the proacted and delayed advertisement campaign.
They literally and figurative killed the franchise.
How did SKYFALL cost so much? Only one significant location shoot, nearly everything else faked on the backlot. And the price of SPECTRE was huge, yet they were too cheap to shoot the night finale on film because the cost of lighting was too high — on a Bond movie!
I seriously have no idea of where the money goes on some of these things, though again, the Bonds have had tons of VFX shots for the last 15 years (QUANTUM had 900+, the later ones even more.) what happened to getting things in-camera?
Thanks for the info there, I don’t know why they did such an elaborate expensive looking space station, they said they wanted to get away from earth and into deep space for Beyond but it just ended up looking like earth of the previous 2 films anyway. Had they just updated the Trek III mushroom spacedock with blue lit interior, or something like Cloud City from Empire Strikes Back itd have been better .
They
I hate the mushroom dock with a passion, it just seems like a blimp hangar in space, none of the beauty of a built in space object like TMP’s drydock or Epsilon 9 or the array seen in late TNG, but the BEYOND station seems like something from the 27th century in style and scale (or perhaps somebody on the production had read THE WOUNDED SKY, an early 80s novel with an alien-built station that was similarly epic.)
Aw dang, Kev! I love the “mushroom dock” with a passion! It looks good inside and out IMHO! Especially when the bay doors open to Horner’s music in STIII!
Maybe you like it that much because of the music?
There are some pretty lousy fight scenes — even the star of the film admitted it, later saying he should have had Bruce Lee involved in choreographing the action — in the two James Coburn FLINT movies, but I really enjoy them because of Jerry Goldsmith’s compelling and catchy music.
John Barry’s music in some of the worst Bond movies ever made help offset their awfulness … shoot, I just popped for the new MOONRAKER limited edition cd, and for me that movie was tied for worst Bond ever up until the 21st century came along and by comparison, elevated it up to the high end of bad.
Incidentally Kev, we rewatched THE PRISONER series this last week. I remembered that back around 1980 you really liked the first Leo McKern episode (you did a pretty good, “you’ll be back number six … whimpering,” impression), but did you ever see the final 2 eps where they have his character back? They are beyond weird, especially the finale, and that is a serious understatement, but then again, I’m the only person I know who ever tried to make a PRISONER fan film, so I do absolutely love it, faults and all.
Now c’mon, Kev. Give me more credit than basing my “like” of the props and miniatures in III purely on the music score and its use in the film.
A lot of ST III is a romp (“Tiny”, stealing the E, etc.) and I love that too, but overall I love everything about STIII *except for some of the Genesis land sets, the crappy volcanic planet fx, and the rather unfortunate casting of Christopher Lloyd! It’s certainly (TO ME) the *best* use of a Horner score in a ST film. Again, (TO ME) he was just getting up to speed in TWOK and his score in TSFS is a lot better in TSFS, IMHO. (The wurst music in TWOK is the dreadful “clears moorings” cue and “Khan’s Pets” which is lifted almost mainly from Corman’s disgusting Humanoids from the Deep)
There’s plenty of “awfulness” scattered around all of the ST films, from TWOK, TSFS, TVH, TFF, as well as in TUC. But they would have had more of a cohesiveness and continuity had Horner scored them all (or if JG had done them all, for that matter). IMO, the worst ST feature film score was for TVH. That movie was a dog (and a whale of a dog too)!
The only way to have made the Rosenman score work for me in TVH — and it would have just barely been a fix at that — is if the music they used as the whale theme — that gets played after Kirk gets the hatch open and they start singing — got repeated at the very end when you see the ship leaving dock. You could have used that and foregone the final reprise of that xmasy mess passing for theme, since basically The Kirk Bunch has also gotten a new lease on live like the whales.
Basically the only thing I like in the score as-is is the funky Kirk in the city cue, but I like funk in all sorts of situations (I know you won’t try, but if you play the theme to SHAFT against the escape from spacedock in TSFS, it works really well.)
We’ve debated the virtues and vices of TSFS for forever it seems, but we’re in agreement that a unifying approach to scoring the films — more unified than just Horner riffing on JG’s greatests hits while snapping back to the Battle on the Ice that always seemed to be his go-to — would have been the way to go. God knows all of the films have horrendous moments, from TMP’s ‘little guy fleeing epsilon 9’ to the dictionary business in TUC, so I guess we embrace what we do out of admiration for the good and long-suffering acceptance of the rest.
It’s interesting you think Horner’s work in TSFS is better than his TWOK score, because that echoes the popular thought that ILM’s work in TSFS is better than their TWOK work. For me, ILM settled into a very disappointing groove on TSFS that often didn’t seem to acknowledge a hard key light in space … something they didn’t correct till TUC, which for the most part looks really good, probably owing to a tech improvement they made (shooting the hero pass of the model against black, enabling them to set contrast levels much higher than if they only shot the various passes against bluescreen.) Likewise, I think Horner is delivering more of a symphony piece in TSFS, instead of doing all the hard work that I love in TWOK like Sneak Attack’s start and the latter ‘they knew where to hit us’ part, and those 10 seconds near the start of Genesis Countdown when Spock climbs down the ladder.
I might be more inclined to agree with you about the music if I actually knew anything about music, but it isn’t akin to cinematography or other facets of filmmaking, in that I only know what I like, not why. For what it’s worth, I think my favorite cue in TSFS is the blowing up the ship part, which sounds really serious at first and then kind of veers into what i think of as John Williams’ LOST IN SPACE incidental music once the Klingons board. I’m not knocking the ‘escape from dock’ music, it’s just that the heart of that I’d already heard (and loved) in BRAINSTORM. That movie also has what i think of as Horner’s best-ever cue, for Louise Fletcher’s death scene, which I just rewatched a couple days ago.
Trashing the Enterprise was a red flag for me
Is there anything to mine from previous Trek? Harve Bennett did OK when he went back and watched the 79 TV episodes made at that point and found Space Seed.
Is there anything else made between 1964-2005 worth revisiting and could be expanded into a 4th Kelvin movie?
but not the Borg, no time-travel, no holodeck, no augments etc
Ashley Miller said that he was briefly hired to write a Kelvin movie where they fight the Kelvin Universe version of the Doomsday Machine. That could be cool possibly as a reconceptualized menace.
Link it to the Borg as in TNG novel ‘vendetta’
Most everyone agrees the Kelvin cast is quality, they’ve only been let down by writing.
They’ve also had Hollywood “A-list” actors (Benedict Cumberbatch, Idris Elba) but, again, it depends on the script and character they’re given.
Consider Russell Crowe – superb actor but the recent Kraven movie bombed. (I kind of liked it as a romp).
Most of the top level “A-list” are older- Tom Cruise, Denzel, etc.
If I were producing the next movie, use the Kelvin cast and mix in the upcoming A-listers (think Jenna Ortega).
Crowe was also in the horrible Mummy remake which was supposed to launch an MCU style universe of connected films. He was in the first Snyderverse movie Man of Steel, a dead film universe that starred Henry Cavill as Superman. As for movies bombing Tom Cruise has had a couple. The already mentioned Mummy and the last mission impossible Dead Reckoning, which ironically did not have JJ Abrams attached.
“But with Skydance set to take over Paramount in 2025 (pending regulatory approval), all bets may be off on the future of the franchise on the big screen (and small).”
Skydance produced the last 2 trek movies. I doubt they are going to cancel all trek everywhere. Trek has supposedly died more times than there are Spocks. I mean we’ve been predicting the death of Star Trek for 60 years. When is the predicting Trek’s demise going to end?
I’m sorry because I sort of enjoyed the novelty of The Kelvin timeline, and I really like this cast. But they had an entire new universe with new possibilities and all they did was Star Trek greatest hits.
What is the point of rebooting a franchise if all you’re going to do is revisit well-trodden ground, or take an old car, give it a new paint job and hotrod it.
There is no need to be sorry. That first movie was great fun, and rebooted the classic TOS characters with verve and great promise. As you say, they could have done anything with them. They basically killed that with the second movie, which was a wretched remix of Star Trek 6 and Wrath of Khan.
She’s right, in that they have to make this SOON or just forget it already! I’m not a huge fan of the Kelvin films but as folks back in the day said, “Sh*t or get off the pot!” fer cryin’ out loud!
No. No. No no no. Nooooooooo.
No, thank you, no.
Yes. Yes. Yes. YES YES YES YES (Don Logan style)
I agree that they should lean into the Spock/Uhura storyline. That was a strong point of the first 2 Kelvin films. Instead of all this hemming and hawing and let’s do another origin story, why don’t they just do a “Mirror, Mirror” themed episode and it could be a wild romp. Fans would come out to see that.