We are now just weeks away from the debut of Star Trek: Section 31. This new film starring Michelle Yeoh is unique for being the first streaming TV movie for the franchise, but it also has been touted as something a bit different, hoping to attract a new audience. One of the biggest proponents of the movie is actor Robert Kazinsky (Zeph) who is a genuine Trek fan, and thusly, he knows the history of introducing something new for the franchise.
Superfan Rob Kazinksy is “terrified”
In addition to the interview with director Olatunde Osunsanmi, the Star Trek: Section 31 cover story for the brand new issue of SFX Magazine includes an interview with Rob Kazinsky who talks about what it was like as a fan to make the movie:
“I love Star Trek with a real passion, and the fact that it was such wonderful people and such a wonderful experience, and firing phasers is exactly as fun as you think it’s going to be. Seeing Klingons and Andorians, it’s everything that you want it to be, with people who exceed every aspect that you want them to exceed. It was, I think, the one time in my life where my dream came true with zero disappointments.”
It may have been a once in a lifetime experience for the actor and fan, but he knows that a movie trying to attract a new audience which focuses on the nefarious Section 31 black ops group could run into resistance. He told SFX:
“I’m terrified of how it’s going to be received, because it’s not the Trek people want. The Trek that people want, the Trek that we all want, is just 1,000 more episodes of TNG. Everyone’s always furious that they’re not getting more TNG, whilst at the same time, when TNG came out, everybody hated it. So this is going to come along and it’s not going to feel like any Trek that they’ve ever seen.“
In the Section 31 movie, Robert Kazinsky plays Zeph (dubbed “The Machine”) a Section 31 operative who wears a mech suit and is the loyal right hand man to the group’s leader Alok Sahar (Omari Hardwick). Showing how much of a fan he is, the actor told TrekMovie he worked closely with screenwriter Craig Sweeny to develop a backstory explaining why Zeph wears the suit.
Olatunde Osunsanmi on set with Robert Kazinsky (SFX/Paramount+)
Kazinsky on why the Federation needs Section 31
The issue of how Section 31 fits in with the philosophy of Star Trek was a subject Kazinsky spoke on at length at New York Comic Con in October. As a fan he said understood how fans had issues with this organization as part of the universe seen in TOS and TNG, but he quoted Deep Space Nine‘s Sisko, who said “It’s easy to be a saint in paradise” [“The Maquis, Part II”]. It has also been confirmed the film is set outside the Federation, and Kazinsky noted at NYCC “…on the frontier where the Federation doesn’t already exist, there is the need for somebody to roll up their sleeves and live in the gray areas.”
You can watch his full comment below…
January on Paramount+, February on SkyShowtime
The movie features the return of Michelle Yeoh, reprising her Discovery role of Emperor Georgiou. According to her official Section 31 character description: “Unable to return to the Terran Empire, Emperor Philippa Georgiou lives under a new alias as owner of The Baraam, a nightclub operating outside of Federation space. That is, until Section 31 enlists her to help protect the Federation while also facing the sins of her past.”
Section 31 also stars Kacey Rohl as Rachel Garrett, Sam Richardson as the Chameloid scientist Quasi, Robert Kazinsky as the mech suit-wearing Zeph, Sven Ruygrok as the (possibly) Vulcan or Romulan “Maniac” Fuzz, Humberly Gonzalez as the Deltan Melle, and Miku Martineau as young Philippa Georgiou.
Star Trek: Section 31 will premiere on Friday, January 24, 2025, on Paramount+ in the U.S. and international markets where the service is available. It will debut in SkyShowtime markets in Europe on February 7. TrekMovie is still trying to confirm releases in other international markets.
ICYMI, here is the official trailer released earlier this month.
There is more on the Section 31 movie in the brand-new issue of SFX Magazine.
Keep up with news about the Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com.
I can certainly appreciate his apprehension. While I harbor many doubts going into this movie, I hardly hold anything against him for having a good time during its production.
Agree. Acting / Actors have not been the issue in these new Trek properties. If anything, they’ve helped elevated poorly written material. I’m open minded enough to give anything a fair shot. Section 31’s problem is that it’s a concept that hardly anyone wanted, Coupled with the fact that this creative braintrust largely does not get what Trek is on a fundamental level. I would be happy to say… “I still dont’ like the approach / concept, but I enjoyed the hell out of that”. It will be a lot easier to be forgiving of a one and done streaming movie that’s 2-2.5 hours, than a TV show built around a flawed concept. Andor was a concept I didn’t know I wanted.. but I was open minded enough to give it a shot, and it worked. If the marketing of this film is giving me a wrong impression of what we’re in store for, then I’d be thrilled to be wrong. So we’ll see.
Yeah, well put. You never know. It could, indeed, be far better than the marketing has suggested. I don’t think it’s likely, but… still.
If that happens, I’ll have lots of questions about the film’s approach to getting the word out!
The fundamental problem is that Section 31 doesn’t “live in the grey areas”.
This is a group of stealth hyper-nationalists who look to solve problems with the most convenient form of available war crime.
Those aren’t grey areas. They’re evil. This is a show about how evil people doing evil things are actually totally justified and cool and worthy of celebration.
It should rightly make everyone that actually likes Star Trek physically ill.
bingo!!! thank you!
Now you know how DC Fontana felt when they turned her notion for retelling the Pueblo incident into THE ENTERPRISE INCIDENT, where we’re justified to do the stealing because we’re the good guys.
That’s one of the things I liked in ARENA. It contained the possibility that the UFP, likely unintentionally, was wrong to establish an outpost on Cestus III.
If snw keeps going into and running roughshod over tos, they’ll probably say the whole arena scenario was due to s31 hoping to provoke a full war. Or to get Intel on a mystery race we later find out are the metrons. Pause for massive groan and eye roll…
s31 is never really celebrated or glamourized either with DS9 or up to Disc.
their aims and plans are always found wanting and the good starfleet officers challenge and defeat them.
even this s31 movie will see that Fed/starfleet principles will win the day thanks to garrett being on board.
S31 was defeated on DS9 only because they put their trust in the wrong man, Bashir. You are forgetting, morality aside, they almost accomplished something the combined forces of the Romulans and cardassians count not. They nearly wiped out the founders and nearly brought an end to the war. You are not giving them nearly enough credit.
bashir was used by sloane but never had their trust and he never gave them his support.
so he was eventually able to stop the plot to kill off the founders and find a cure, despite complicity by admiral ross and others in starfleet.
I didn’t mean to suggest Bashir did it willingly. But the ep for example where Bashir was duped into setting up the Romulan senator. Bashir did help them whether he realized it or not.
but not by choice
Exactly. Manipulation is not the same as choice.
“with the most convenient form of available war crime.”
Okay, that made me laugh. :-) Well-put!
What Carter Dohoney said — exactly!
The idealism around Star Trek was this Utopian future where humanity had evolved around hatred, facisim, bigotry etc however deep space 9 and TNG expanded in that whilst this was the ideals of the federation, the rest of the galaxy couldn’t be expected to be the same. So how is the preserved in a galaxy where the federation is threatened
I don’t know what Trek you watched, But while there was hope that man managed to survive the atomic age. Humans, Federation and Starfleet, showed hatred, racism and bigotry still around.
Hell even the crew of the Enterprise and the primary and reoccurring cast had hatred, bigotry, ect.
Trek has never been the utopian future that Roddenberry went on about by the time others had control over the franchise )he really went heavy towards that after he was pushed out of the film franchise.
Even
“Hell, even the crew of the Enterprise and the primary and reoccurring cast had hatred, bigotry, ect and Trek has never been the utopian future..and Roddenberry went have towards that after he was pushed out of the franchise.”
I don’t know what Trek YOU watched. Did you not see Edith Keeler’s speech? Did you not hear Kirk say “We overcame our instinct for violence” in Spectre of the Gun? Did you not understand the message of saving the Horta in “The Devil in the Dark”? Or trying to save Balok in “The Corbomite Maneuver”?
From “Let That Be Your Last Battlefield” Kirk states to Belle and Lokai:
“KIRK: Let me reaffirm my position, gentlemen. I could put you in the brig for what you have done, but I won’t do it because you are new to this part of the galaxy, which is governed by the United Federation of Planets. We live in peace with full exercise of individual rights. The need to resort to violence and force has long since passed.”
I think I understand why you are so certain of something when you are so wrong. You mentioned the primary cast of Star Trek had ect (electro-convulsive therapy, otherwise known as electric shock therapy). I’m pretty sure they did not, but I’m pretty sure you did.
Exactly wrong. Section 31 is not evil. They may employ evil tactics but the very fact that their goal is the preservation of the Federation goes against the very idea that they are evil . Sloan said it himself, the goal of Section 31 is to protect noble people like Bashir from themselves so that great men can continue to go on and be gret men and lead the Federation into the future. Thats WHY they exist in the shadows. Their very existance would put a stain on the shining shield of the Federation. That’s what Kurtzman never got. All people like him care about is the gun toting shoot first and ask questions later aspect of them. Which is entirely missing the point. FFS!
sorry but s31’s actions are evil, up to committing genocide to stop a war or allowing a runaway AI to almost destroy everyone.
and also marcus’s plot to sacrifice the enterprise in order to start a war with the klingons in ‘darkness’.
Their actions may be, but their intentions are not. That is the whole point. They believe in the greater good at all costs.
they can believe what they like but their actions and its consequences tell a different story.
Yes agreed. It’s the necessary evil idea they play on which is basically the excuse every world leader in history who has started a war has used including America.
That’s what makes Section 31 interesting. Starfleet quietly supports them because in the end they believe what they are doing is for the greater good but same time distance themselves because they know the actions they take can be immoral and illegal at times. And they been doing it for over 200 years so obviously they believe the end justify the means as much as S31 themselves believe.
So yeah it’s tricky. To many people (including people in Starfleet themselves) they are seen as evil. But they and Starfleet brass don’t see it that way and literally why they support them. It’s the villain who sees themselves as the hero in their own story I guess.
But of course Discovery has completely ruined this nuance divide because on that show Section 31 is officially part of Starfleet and essentially in the open. So is Starfleet now openly supporting and approves of an evil organization? And in turn they officially approved that they recruited a genocidal dictator who has probably committed more war crimes than any leader in history to be part of it too. Sigh
starfleet only supports s31 during times of crisis, post the klingon war in Disc, the dominion war in DS9 and others
but their methods and tactics will always be anathema to the principles of the Fed and starfleet in the end.
Well no because in Discovery Section 31 is just a standing division within Starfleet who has its own missions, etc. They weren’t treated like some special force you deploy in times in crisis like the National Guard, they clearly were doing lots of things with their own agenda, ie, the time travel program Burnham’s parents were working on for years.
the history of the ST timeline has seen the top brass, senior officers/officials of the Fed and starfleet be shown as not keeping with the principles that the organizations stand for.
it is always field officers on starships like the enterprise who end up holding to those values.
Yeah I know. But the point is they have been looking the other way for centuries now and never felt the need to reign them in even when they were trying to commit genocide against the Founders.
almost losing the dominion war did press starfleet to look the other way if s31’s plan would help save it and the Fed, A quadrant.
The problem with S31 lies mostly with Picard’s third season. Here we suddenly have sadist unhinged people who think they can brainwash changelings into doing their bidding as undercover operatives, which is completely deranged.
We can debate if the changeling virus was a justified means of trying to win a war of extermination against Earth and the Federation. The Dominion had at that point already tried to blow up a whole solar system, and a previous history of afflicting entire civilisations with debilitating diseases simply for not wanting to join. Projections showed the Federation would lose eventually and the only thing that actually brought the Dominion to the negotiation table WAS the cure for the virus.
No. Not everybody hated TNG when it came out. I liked it and so did my parents and friends. There was also no question whatsoever about it being Star Trek both visually and a continuation of Roddenberry’s message even if there were some TOS fans that were resistant to it.
Since it’s not going to feel like any Trek that we have ever seen, Is it going to be Trek at all? Throwing in a couple lines about firing phasers and a one-off mention of Starfleet and a smattering of Trek aliens doesn’t make it Star Trek.
I would like to ask Mr. Kazinsky why does this movie deserve to have the name Star Trek in the title and why would fans of Star Trek want to watch it if its goal is to not be like any Trek? What message of hope for humanity’s future will the genocidal emperor leave with the audience?
Well said. I don’t want more TNG at all. I want Trek to move forward (no more prequels) and I want it to be good. I want it to be reverent of what has come before That’s it. Do that, and I don’t care what it’s about.
Moving forward is such an ironic statement these days. By all counts Discovery is “moving forward” being set in the 32nd century. Yet SOME HOW they are still held back by Warp and Dilithium limitations when centuries before Picard and esp Janeway found ways around them. What good is moving forward when you forget and worse ignore what came before? Those who forget history……
They were sold beholden to Trek’s past.. even that far in the future.. that it didnt’ help. I’m fine with a certain level of that.. but it just felt like Disco had every reason to forge totally new territory, and kept finding old stuff to key off of. It’s ironic that I thought Season 5 did that very well right up until the end.. I think the payoff was just too difficult to make satisfying. It lived in Trek’s past, but did it in a way that felt more reverent than it did in previous seasons. Better, just not quite there.
I know I’m getting old, but having been alive when TNG was on the air, I can promise that not “everybody” hated it. In fact, even a lot of the ones who didn’t care for it in the beginning eventually started watching because it AT LEAST TRIED to bring back the feel of TOS. And it birthed AN ENTIRE GENERATION of Trek fans – which, to be frank, is the only reason any of the current projects are even in development. There have been interviews and quotes from many (if not all) of the show runners and major players from the various new series, and everyone of them make some reference back to TNG. And that’s not even including the fact that TNG kicked off the first-run syndication concept sci-fi that would lead to some other big and beloved franchises that may never have made it to network TV (anyone heard of Babylon 5 or Stargate??) – not to mention DS9. Those wouldn’t have existed without TNG pulling in the ratings – which doesn’t happen when everyone “hates it”.
But the point is simple – this DOESN’T feel like Trek. Kazinsky is “terrified” because he knows what we all already seem to know, which is that S31 IS NOT Trek. The things he enjoyed doing tie to the concepts of Trek, but not the execution. And as Discovery proved, you can call on the concepts all you want, but that doesn’t mean you’ve actually created Star Trek – at least not the Trek that long-time fans are looking for.
S31 may well be a bait-and-switch to pull in new fans but actually give us “old guys” something to enjoy. But as much content as is in the trailers, I don’t think I can believe that. Not to mention that using one of the most controversial and often panned concepts that was ever developed for Trek seems like a bad idea to start with. It didn’t do any favors for Discovery (and not really for DS9 either), so how does a feature-length film do any better?
TNG had the benefit of being the only show created by roddenberry other than TOS. In fact that didn’t even need to say, “Based on Star Trek created by Gene Roddenberry”. A LOT of ppl gave it a chance for that. TNG in its first 2 seasons had it’s gems but IMO more times than not it sucked. Without his name and “Star Trek” in the title I would have bet against it in Vegas every day. And it also helps that TOS on the movies was at it’s high point with The Voyage Home. So TNG’s success actually had very little to do with TNG in the beginning.
talent other than roddenberry made that show what it became once he stepped back from show running it.
Yes but I am not talkiing about what he contributed. I am taking about his cred as the creator in the eyes of the fans.
yeah, but with ST ‘it takes a village’….
While there were many that liked TNG from day 1 I think you are looking at this from rose colored glasses. You can ask the TNG cast themselves. The first time they attended conventions was…. Not fun for them.
By 1990, they were loved and TNG was a phenomenon. Its popularity rivalled the X Files. Now look at the state of the franchise today 😞
Comments like this ignore the legion of new fans that have gotten into the franchise. Just because you want more of the same doesn’t mean it’s what’s right for the franchise going forward.
You are missing my point. It’s not a franchise that is on the cultural radar anymore. That’s why most new merchandise is based on TOS and TNG, because it sells better, because its iconic and people still watch it. Lego is releasing its first Star Trek set – the Ent-D with minifigs. Eaglemoss went bust, partly because they just couldn’t shift the DSC ships.
Perhaps. But as I posted in this thread, TNG wasn’t a one and done project. It was a series with many new episodes every year that gave the show a chance to become a fan loved favorite.
Mr. Kazinsky’s comparison to TNG is rather silly since he is going to be in a one-and-done movie that will need to be a huge success right out of the gate if it is going to get any sequels and the fans of it will be lucky if they get a single new story with those characters every couple of years. That won’t leave much screen time to correct missteps and build characters with any depth in a timely manner to stay relevant.
TNG was lucky to get to a third season after its lackluster early years and fans almost abandoned it back then.
Which proves the point that not everybody hated it since it did continue on to become a much-loved fan favorite show. It also had the benefit of returning every year with many new episodes and was able to smooth out the rough edges. These streaming movies won’t have that benefit. One and done and forgotten, unless they are huge hits. And even if they are huge hits, the audience will still have to wait for another movie to be made and that long wait for just a single new story is what killed the Kelvin movies momentum.
He said: “When TNG came out” Of course he knows that it garnered tons of fans later on. But when it started it got a lot of furious backlash. Just ask the actors.
But not from “Everybody”. That was an incorrect claim made by him and it was a pointless claim since unlike TNG, he is in a one-and-done movie and is no longer in a continuing series like TNG was. I’m not sure how he expects fans to love this movie years later like TNG, when he won’t be doing any more stories if it isn’t a hit right away.
It wasn’t luck though. There was no other rival production and TNG garnered huge audiences from day 1.
but not because of its quality.
fans tuned in but the show took 2 seasons before it got it right, with a lot of substandard scripts.
luckily the upswing occurred with s3.
I’m treating this like I do Skeleton Crew. You really can’t call that Star Wars exactly
I am one of those fans who loved TNG when it first arrived. I didn’t fully gel until Season 3 but it was still a very well written show. I was entranced by the show before it even aired, collected the magazines released before it aired. The fold out Enterprise D picture is framed and hanging in my Son’s room. I’ve let my kids check out the more recent Trek but have never given them any indication one way or another how I feel about it as I want them to make their own decisions. They’re only 11 and 13 but they don’t like it either. Star Trek needs to stop trying to be everything but Star Trek and embrace itself.
I didn’t hate it. I was indifferent at best. I found the crew bland and the acting wooden. I slightly warmed to them over the years but it was very slight.
You know what, I’m ready for something a bit different. Trek has been guilty of devouring its own carcass a bit too much lately. SNW is not doing it for me: let those characters rest now. Do something different. (Not saying that S31 is what I want mind you, but I will watch)
I agree as well (although I love SNW personally). But yeah, I WANT them to try and do new things. Of course I’m a fanboy, so I’m not going to say no to having Riker, Worf or Spock back on the Enteprise. I will watch that endlessly as I do now.
But I also feel it’s nice to just go a different way at least once in a while. It’s a big reason I’m looking forward to SFA. Not something based in the 23rd and 24th century and can be completely its own thing away from everything we know.
It’s also the reason why I am a little intrigued with the Starfleet prequel movie because at least they are trying to do something with the movies and not more TOS and TNG for a change and with completely new characters movie audience can get to know. I’m still not excited for it because it’s a prequel but it’s trying to be its own thing and I do like we are getting back to the 22nd century again. Assuming it ever happens of course.
The S31 trailer spooked everyone, including myself. This is the real intention, a new format to test the waters. The trailer it is definitely aimed for Tik Tok “fast fast, up in my face short content.” They already mentioned this movie is targeted for non Trekkies, for Generation Z. Me on my fifties, I see a lot and I see nothing. I have replayed the trailer several times and still find it difficult to process.
Yeah the first trailer felt like it was aiming for people who don’t watch Star Trek at all and why it felt so off. As its been said many times, of course they should try and get younger fans into Trek as I imagine most of us were once upon a time when TOS, TNG and VOY came along.
But again, the difference is back then it all felt like Star Trek and it still found a way to reach younger fans without pretending to be something else. This just feels so off from the brand in general.
And many brands are trying to reach newer/younger fans but it doesn’t feel as cynical as this. The new Star Wars show Skeleton Crew feels and is marketed differently than their other shows but it still looks inherently like Star Wars.
If it does it job and it manages to get more new fans onboard, then OK, I guess they took a gamble and it worked. But I still feel end of the day the only people who will care about this movie a year from now are the same old fans that’s been the case with everything since 2009 after the new fans mostly moves on again.
They have been tweaking the same ideas but more than spectacular visuals and updated format, which by the way are very impressive, they really need more thought into the quality and coherence of the script. Disney halted Marvel and Star Wars due to the same issues.
See thats the whole problem. I have only seen this work once. Star Trek 2009. And then they jumped the shark with STID and no matter what Zoe Saldana or Chris Pine want a fourth movie is not coming How many times do they have to fail before they realize the biggest franchise in history saved by the fans maybe shouldn’t alienate THE FANS! You aren’t going to bring in new audiences and keep them engaged. No matter what you do, “Star Trek” is still in the title and people are still going to expect to see Sheldon Cooper sitting next to them in theaters.
Obviously 2009 had the huge curiosity factor rebooting Trek for the first time in over 40 years and remaking it for modern audiences and for the most part it worked great.
But I don’t think STID and obviously BEY kept that level of interest for people. Yes STID did better but just $80 million more than the first film did and that was after 4 years, inflation, a bigger international push and a crazy amount of hype.
I think mostly everyone knows or at least believes the Kelvin movies are done at this point. We only keep talking about it because Paramount keeps pretending they want to do another one and it keeps the conversation going even if it’s just to roll their eyes at it. I have never seen a studio troll its audience as they have done with these movies lol. BTW, remember the BIG announcement at the shareholders event that JJ Abrams held saying the next Kelvin movie was coming? That will already be 3 years ago next month.
And yeah if they were serious about making more movies, ANY movie, then they would be doing everything the can to get one made for the 60th anniversary. That would’ve been the time to do another Kelvin movie and literally ten freaking years after the last one. And we know it’s the Starfleet movie that is suppose to be next and not even that will make it in time for the 60th because it’s literally now 2025 and zero movement since they announced the damn thing.
Regardless, whenever they do make another movie, it should be targeted for smaller audiences for a lower budget at this point but that could be a reason why Paramount isn’t exactly falling over themselves to make another one because it will no longer be an ‘event’ movie like it was in the beginning.
I still can’t believe the Hawley movie was so far along it had a cast that may have been paid for an unmade movie. At least that was a rumor they paid out actors and actresses they had a contract with.
Yeah, again, just more proof how divided and unsure this studio is putting out one freaking Star Trek movie in the marketplace.
Obviously someone thought Hawley’s movie (the one I was the most excited about as well) was good enough idea to the point they approved the budget, hired actors and set a production date and it they still found a way to screw it up lol. Unbelievable.
I have been saying since 2019 Paramount has no clue or confidence on what they want to with these films and every year that passes makes it more and more obvious.
I’m almost certain in six months we’ll be hearing about yet another new concept with a new set of writers and a director. And to think, people used to berate me and others because we doubted anytime they said they were making a movie lol.
Nine years later and we’re still waiting for one to just start shooting something.
I was looking forward to that movie too. It actually sounded like a movie for adults again. And I was excited to see a movie with new characters and a ship hopefully not named Enterprise.
But Paramount probably got scared thet was going to bomb too I guess.
It’s pretty sad though they still can’t get one movie green lit.
Totally agree as usual my friend.
The first JJ verse movie did feel like a big deal in a way Star Trek never felt before. Everyone was talking about this movie including all my friends and family who you couldn’t even pay to watch an episode of TOS. It felt so big at the time I really thought it was going to make a billion dollars.
I’m completely serious I thought it was just going to take off the way everyone was talking about it. Obviously it didn’t get close lol, but I thought this was going to be like Marvel and we were going to get these movies endlessly for years as sad and depressed as that made me. But I had accepted it and said goodbye to Picard, Janeway, Kira, Worf, Prime Kirk and Seven and hello to these silly fraternity versions and the universe of lens flares and every ship goes ludicrous speed instead.
But by just the third movie the party was already over lol. The friends and family who was excited and liked the first one had stopped caring long ago by then. All my friends I saw the first one with had zero desire to see the sequels but a few at least watched STID on DVD.
By the time Beyond came around the loads of teenagers who were in my theater for the first two movies had very few for that one. It was mostly back to an over 30 crowd again. No one was excited or talking about it. I remember spending months talking to people about the first two movies before conversation died out. With Beyond it was about a month before most moved on.
Just no one really cared and by then most fans was getting more excited about Discovery and returning to the Prime universe again.
Nine years later and Star Trek has become something mostly old nerds watch again. JJ tried to make it as hip and cool as possible but in the end it’s still Star Trek and most people stopped caring about JJ verse ten years ago, including most old fans.
Even though it’s not a direct or maybe even fair comparison, the Kelvin universe does feel a bit like how the DCEU died as well, from a lot of fanfare and ambitious ideas that was meant to go on infinity but both lasted less than a decade all said and done.
And the DCEU actually was very successful at the beginning and all their films made $500+ million with Aquaman making over a billion dollars. But then the movies just started flat lining minus Auqaman after Justice League and it just never recovered and just like that gone with a new replacement.
The Kelvin movies however didn’t really get a chance to show its full potential but I imagine if it did hit big the way DCEU originally did they may have tried for spin offs and yes maybe a TV show too.
Yes technically it’s not dead yet, but even if they do manage to make the elusive fourth film, since they already said it will be the last one anyway and plan to create new movies back in the Prime universe, it essentially is dead.
It really is a shame, so much promise and fanfare out of the gate that could’ve had its own stories and future characters along side the Prime universe and it was squandered so fast.
That’s actually a great comparison. And I was really excited about the DCEU and loved most of the characters actually. But like JJ verse itself, the cracks showed really early after Batman V Superman and fans were already questioning where it was going long term. They had time to right the ship but it lost people after a few movies.
But can’t deny those films really did make a ton of money. It made several billion dollars by the time Justice League and Auaman opened. MoS, BvS, WW, JL, SS and AM all made between $600 million to a billion dollars each. But yeah things started to take a dive later on. I think The Flash only made around $250 million? And after all the hype The Rock was getting for Black Adam for years and that didn’t even make $400 million, but made around what the Kelvin movie makes and basically DOA.
But JJ verse never got anywhere close to those movies. Three movies and barely cleared a billion total even though they had some of the same budgets DCEU had. I think Aquaman cost less money than STID and BEY and still made nearly as much as all three of those movies combined.
People want to delude themselves these movies were big hits, but they weren’t even close when you compared to real franchises like the DCEU which got cancelled itself when the movies started making less than half a billion. It was obvious JJ verse wasn’t going to be able to sustain that for very long with those budgets…and they didn’t.
If they started making them cheaper and earned what they did, maybe we would had a fourth or fifth movie already instead of them trolling for 9 years making a film everyone is clearly too afraid to even make.
“The Trek that people want, the Trek that we all want, is just 1,000 more episodes of TNG.”
Will settle for a Kelvin ST4, and a Legacy P+ movie
if they wanted do another TNG movie they would’ve. Nemesis flopped. And Guardians of the Furious killed the Kelvin timeline and nearly killed cinematic Star Trek.
I like Chris Pine as Kirk, it will probably always be a trilogy. I don’t believe Kinberg or JJ have any plan to bring back that cast. If they did, they wouldn’t be making a prequel nobody asked for. They would have started filming to make the 60th anniversary.
Nemesis flopped because it was the Section 31 of its time. They pulled in a director and screenwriter with action cred to try and bring in an audience that didn’t really care about the product. Not to mention neither really understand the series (which has at least been admitted to by the director), but the only difference is they still had access to the cast that everyone knew and loved. And, ironically, many of the deleted scenes included the elements that made people usually like a Star Trek movie, but knowing that would pull in the same old audience, those parts were left out. And just like that, Star Trek pretty much died.
I’m not saying S31 will be the nail in the coffin this time, but if they don’t learn the lesson, my guess is that they will alienate even more fans who are close to the edge of giving up.
My sense was they were trying to recapture Wrath of Khan and Search for Spock with Data’s death and B4. Though Shinzon is no Khan.
and it was no competition compared to the big SF, fantasy hits out that year.
TNG movies looked cheap and out of date.
After The Motion Picture, the Star Trek movies were notoriously under-budgeted until the 2009 movie. Plus, Patrick Stewart alone probably earned about as much on Nemesis (allegedly 14 million) as the whole Kelvin cast got for Beyond. Not to forget that Beyond had about 3 times the total budget of Nemesis. So basically, there was little money left to actually make the movie after the TNG stars had been paid – and it shows in the final result.
Paramount didn’t seem to give a fig about the 50th, I don’t know why the 60th would change that. Paramount doesn’t deserve trek.
The guy is right. He’s seeing the criticism everywhere. Just look at the social media posts and the YouTube Dislikes.
It doesn’t look like Star Trek to him, or to a lot of fans. I mean, look at that SFX cover. Does that look like Star Trek?
Only the phaser.
it looks like CIA meets suicide squad in space
exactly.
The irony is, he probably didn’t think that at the time of production. In fact he many have thought he was helping make the best Trek ever. But the reality is now sinking in and he’s just trying to get ahead of what he knows is ultimately going to be the general sentiment. And knowing that he’s attached to this, he also knows he’ll never get a second chance with the franchise. He’s “terrified” that any prospects of a future Trek paycheck are gone before it even premieres.
Oh boy, Star Trek: Into Darkness, this time with even more fascism!
Defaulting to authoritarianism is lazy writing. It’s throwing up your hands and saying you don’t want to think of how to solve difficult problems, so we’re just going to try to make it go away with a gun.
Captain Kirk was out on the frontier where the Federation didn’t already exist, and his sleeves were very much rolled-up. That’s kinda the whole point of the show.
Gotta love corporate media executives who actively hate Star Trek’s hopeful message changing the franchise into more fucking copaganda.
bingo! you are absolutely right carter! It doesn’t surprise me one bit though, given how much Military Industrial Complex and CIA whitewashing nonsense shows are being produced by Paramount.
Have you seen this movie yet? No. So judge after you’ve seen it. Typical toxic fan.
No, toxic fans are those who judge others. Like you. We are judging people based on their comments which is fair game.
Honestly, yes. Look at the other “copoganda” that is on this network. They want NCIS is space.
i don’t have a problem with that as the NCISverse is as smart and heartfelt as the best of ST.
First off, Happy New Year everyone!
Secondly, his comments (not surprisingly) have caught on like wildfire everywhere online. Someone made a video about it on YouTube and where I first saw them.
I have been deeply critical since we saw the first trailer and then the second one. But of course I want to like it and I truly hope I will in the end. But the fact he’s saying this, someone who is a fan and an actor in the project is a bit alarming. Because he clearly gets it and signaling all the cynicism because it just doesn’t look or feel like Star Trek. And he’s basically suggesting this is the film we are getting and not some ‘red herring’ others have suggested and saving the actual ‘Trek’ elements in the movie itself.
“The Trek that people want, the Trek that we all want, is just 1,000 more episodes of TNG.”
This line really does prove he’s a hardcore fan because this is something I constantly say here in one variation or another and said something similar maybe a week ago in another article. Yes there are people (like me) who wants to see Trek do different things and try to expand beyond the basic premise. But I also feel people like me and others are in the minority. That seems to bare out when you just read people’s comments all over social media. End of the day, for most people, especially casual fans, they want to be on a starship (preferably on an Enterprise) with Starfleet officers exploring the galaxy. It doesn’t have to be specifically more TNG (but I’m guessing many want that too of course if they could) but just some variation of that.
And TPTB knows this. This is probably the main reason why we got SNW instead of Section 31 in the first place. It was a no-brainer between the two. There is a reason fans are still screaming for Legacy. This was obviously just as true back in the Berman era. When DS9 came out and people had serious issues with the premise we then got TNG in the Delta Quadrant with Voyager and then another show literally named Enterprise after that one.
Because they know this ultimately what most fans want. No one is truly begging for SFA or Section 31. Sure people will watch it because it’s still Star Trek but they will take a SNW or Legacy a hundred times over these ideas and why it’s hard to stray too far from the starship concept in general.
And then of course you present something that barely even looks like Star Trek, in the end you’re asking for more trouble, especially if its just bad.
When I first started watching Trek in the 90s, this was true and I really just wanted more TNG and really nothing else. I started with Voyager first and then TNG but those were really the only shows I watched. I was also one of those people who couldn’t get into DS9 at all. I just wanted spaceship stuff. TNG is still my favorite show today although I grew to love DS9 and now its my second favorite.
I am OK with doing something new, but this movie feels like its not even Star Trek as everyone has been saying and that’s the problem.
I agree most people probably just want more TNG, VOY or SNW today, but DS9 proves when you deliver great stories fans will accept it. Most of us will give anything a chance as long as its good.
If this movie felt like something that was Star Trek version of a John le Carré spy novel for example, then more people would be excited if they know who that is and some of his stories.
Instead it just looks like a bad and cheap Suicide Squad rip off.
Really wished Prime Universe Phillipa was the one chosen for this movie. The Emperor somehow rescuing the Captain. This is real issue, mirror Georgou. Nobody have been able to figure her out.
If Discovery rescued Prime Phillipa right at the end of season 1, we wouldn’t be having this dilemma right now. That decision to replace an amazing character possibility on the first pilot, completely changed her fate on the franchise.
the anti hero or heroine rule on streaming these days but they can be capable of good acts.
I’m sure you heard me say this many times, but although I will probably always love the Berman era of Trek more because I just felt the shows were better with much stronger story telling elements, but I also like the direction this era of Star Trek is going as well. Because it is trying to do new things with it I think Berman never would’ve done like making an animated comedy or having shows set in the 32nd century. These are all positives for me although I understand why it isn’t for others.
And I think for many older fans who have complained about these new shows and miss the classic era is because it fed them that same style and format again and again. That is the biggest irony about Star Trek today because people complained it was too much of the same back then and now many fans are complaining it’s not enough of the same as before that Robert Kazinsky is literally saying here and fans want more of.
But yes as stated DS9 was a very different animal at the time, not just in its premise but also its tone and format and it won people over…eventually. ;)
So it proves that fans will get behind something once it’s deemed good. But even DS9 was considered ‘anti-Star Trek’ by many fans at the time and I bet you can still find some who believe that today. And of course its invention of Section 31 only made that point more clear by those people who had issues with the show from the beginning.
And that’s the hill they were already trying to climb with this movie. Both the main character of the piece and the organization it’s about both feel very ant-Star Trek on a level DS9 never did. And on top of it, they strip every element that we think of Star Trek and not just its uniforms and space ships but the basic idealism of the franchise, along with the fact it just looks generic and derivative also doesn’t help. And finally the tone of the piece isn’t what most people expected and wanted something with a bit more gravitas and dare I say it, cerebral as you suggested. Something more earnest, less comic booky.
You take ALL of that and that’s why many fans are reacting the way they are. Everything about this movie just feels so off brand in general. But if they at least showed us something with a more intriguing, in-depth and complex story would at least get people more interested. And maybe we WILL get that. But the trailers makes it just feel like going to get another basic spy story we’ve seen a hundred times.
And there is still a difference between different vs unrecognizable. Many feel they have gone too far to the point it feels like the latter. And Kazinsky seems to fear that’s how many fans will see it.
Now ALL that said, if most of us are proven wrong and it turns out to be a good story on its own, at least something better than the trailers are suggesting, most people will overlook the other issues. But I just feel they missed the mark of what could’ve been.
“And that’s the hill they were already trying to climb with this movie. Both the main character of the piece and the organization it’s about both feel very ant-Star Trek on a level DS9 never did. And on top of it, they strip every element that we think of Star Trek and not just its uniforms and space ships but the basic idealism of the franchise, along with the fact it just looks generic and derivative also doesn’t help. And finally the tone of the piece isn’t what most people expected and wanted something with a bit more gravitas and dare I say it, cerebral as you suggested. Something more earnest, less comic booky.”
You laid it out well and all of this is the problem. This movie already had red flags with having Adolf as it leader and being a Section 31 story. And you missed another red flag, not just for it being Section 31, but then they took the parts that made people thought was cool about the organization and messed that up once they aligned it with Starfleet in Discovery. And they are doing that AGAIN in this movie because we know Rachel Garret is officially there under Starfleet. And Rachel Garret didn’t sacrifice her life and crew for the Federation just to be in a crappy movie.
It’s so tonally deaf on every level. It’s like Kurtzman showed up to the first meeting and said ‘how can we make this movie as unappealing to fans as possible?’ I’m joking but am I?? They went out of their way to make it look as unTrek as possible with a very watered down version of Section 31 and gave us the tone of GOTG where it comes off as a silly romp instead of a more impactful and thoughtful story. I want the Section 31 Sloane was running, not the one with the rogue gallery characters and silly one liners.
OK I haven’t seen the movie yet, but does anyone think we are going to get a story that rivals something on the level of Three Days of the Condor or Suicide Squad?
And I certainly like a lot of NuTrek, especially the animated shows and Picard season 3 but outside of those and a few strong SNW episodes, it’s still not remotely close to Berman Trek. And the stuff I do like in NuTrek is mostly because it follows the style of Berman Trek which should tell you another thing. And the people like Terry Matalas, Aaron Waltke and Mike McMahan grew up and in Matalas case even worked on that era of Trek, so we see that influence more with them.
I would give real money if any of them worked on this movie. They understand Star Trek and not trying to make it something else like the clowns behind this movie are doing.
“And Rachel Garret didn’t sacrifice her life and crew for the Federation just to be in a crappy movie.”
I don’t know why but I laughed so hard over this line lol. And yeah it’s still weird that even in the 24th century Section 31 and Starfleet have such a close relationship. Shouldn’t they be considered completely separated by now? But maybe there will be more to it. I still don’t know how I feel that Garret is even part of Section 31 but as you said they have watered down the original version so much at this point, it may not be seen as ‘sinister’ as the original version was.
I just don’t understand after 5 years of hearing about a Section 31 project even happening THIS is what they landed on? Yes maybe the movie will turn out amazing and surprise us haters and naysayers but I just can’t understand why they will go a direction they had to know would turn many fans away just by the look and feel of it?
And clearly Kazinsky seems afraid of the same thing.
Happy New Year to you and everyone else here at Trekmovie.
Great points as always in your comment. I think it may depend on exactly what the actor meant when he mentioned TNG. Does he mean a show set on a starship and focused on deep-space exploration (as many people here seem to have interpreted it) ? Or is he referring to the idealism and the relatively “cosy” vibe (for want of a better term) ? Or does he mean both?
A Section 31 story by definition would be neither of these things, of course. The actor definitely seems to be confirming this aspect, at least. But the issue with the movie — assuming the trailers and the PR photos are an accurate representation — may be the execution, not the basic premise. It should really be “Jason Bourne + a darker version of The West Wing”, not “Mission Impossible meets Guardians of the Galaxy”. And by Bourne, I mean the shadowy geopolitical chessplaying that Bourne is supposed to have been a footsoldier for before his memory loss & redemption, not the hand-to-hand action stuff. Put another way, it should be like DS9’s “In the Pale Moonlight” and that other DS9 episode with the Latin name we can never remember how to spell.
But you never know, I guess. We may all be surprised ;)
Speaking of surprise twists, I suspect S31 team leader Alok Sahar may turn out to be Kovich in his (comparatively) younger days. Or possibly Khan’s brother. Bonus fact just for fun: The name “Alok Sahar” is a combination of South Asian names from several different languages (like “Khan Singh”). The English translation is basically “Light/Brightness of the Dawn”.
Since the actor also mentioned Sisko, ironically Mr “I can live with it” would actually have been a pretty good fit for S31 himself, especially with his increasingly “ends justify the means” attitude. But Sloan seemed to have deliberately targeted Bashir specifically because of the latter’s idealism; the part where he keeps reacting with open admiration the more Bashir expresses his outrage about S31 was brilliantly depicted, since Sloan interpreted it as proving his point (ie. S31 exists specifically to protect the Federation so that decent citizens like Bashir can live in peace and continue representing the great ideals that Federation civilisation is based on). I wonder if the S31 movie will be so nuanced. Once again, we’ll see.
Tiger2, a few more thoughts:
As for relatively traditional Trek shows that can still have a modern/unconventional angle, especially if viewers want “deep space exploration on a starship”, a possible idea that lets everyone have their cake and eat it did occur to me: A post-PIC show about a classified Starfleet Intelligence mission to find the alien machine civilisation that upgraded V’Ger. Starfleet Intelligence (and, behind the scenes, S31) finally managed to decrypt more of the data downloaded from V’Ger at the end of TMP, and some of it points to an origin on the other side of the galaxy, much further into the Delta Quadrant. The starship chosen is a cutting-edge classified vessel with a fully-functioning slipstream drive; Admiral Janeway is in command, with Seven as the first officer; the overall mission is under the command of a Starfleet Intelligence officer (actually S31) on-board; he has a secret agenda of finding the advanced technology so it can be weaponised in the Federation’s defence, although Janeway & Seven don’t know that (they may eventually have suspicions, however). So along with difficult moral dilemmas, the story can also deal with major real-world issues involving AI — its potential future capabilities, philosophical implications, and so on. Get suitable AI experts to consult so that this stuff is handled intelligently. It could be visually spectacular too. Call the starship the “USS Odyssey” and the show “Star Trek: Odyssey”.
Another option, albeit not a show primarily based on starships, would be to have a post-PIC show with Janeway as the newly-elected Federation President. Basically “The West Wing in the 25th century”. Like its Martin Sheen-starring predecessor, it could be a very timely show, given what’s unfolding around the world, and in a similar way it could handle all sorts of relevant real-world issues, but obviously in a sci-fi setting and on a galactic scale. You could depict a lot more of futuristic Federation life too — giant orbital cities, luxurious post-scarcity life on UFP planets, etc. And viewers would get plenty of starship action if the story eventually involves major conflicts/wars, along with President Janeway occasionally travelling on the UFP’s interstellar starship equivalent of Air Force One.
In the meantime…back to your main points. The actor’s remarks do sound like pre-emptive damage control. It’s obviously going to depend on whether any fan outrage is just because the movie turns out to be “different to the usual stuff” (and there are always going to be vocal hardcore fans who object to that, even if the criticism is unjustified) or because the overall quality of the movie really is bad. The 64 million credit question. As Sisko once said: “There’s an old saying…Fortune favours the bold…Well…I guess we’re about to find out.” ;)
That’s a dynamite idea, probably one of the only post Picard ones I’ve ever found to have merit. Must mean they’ll never go near it!
Wow, fantastic ideas!!!
Yeah that’s the thing, Star Trek as a premise can do SO MANY THINGS even if it’s still starship based shows. I think what has always been done with basically every starship based show is that none has ever been given a specific mandate as the examples you describe. It’s basically just been open ended as possible and literally ‘let’s go second star to the right and straight on until morning’ type of fancy. Of course we know starship gets assigned missions but every one of them Is pretty random. And that’s always been the funny thing about Star Trek. It’s a ship about people exploring ‘the unknown’ where they are supposedly charting new areas of the galaxy but then gets a call from Starfleet brass they have to turnaround and go transport some admiral to Vulcan. It really is all over the place lol but it’s a great open ended way to tell every story they can.
We’ve never seen starships with specific missions like that before. The V’ger one would be great and tie into a story fans have wanted more of for decades now and very much an exploration story. In fact, one idea I had since the 2009 movie would’ve been been an exploration/political type show about a Starfleet ship traveling through Romulan space for the first time post-super nova and trying to help maintain all the colonies and planets while trying to foster stronger relations with the Romulans. It’s essentially DS9 on a sector wide scale. And maybe like your Janeway and Seven show idea, it would have a few familiar faces on the ship with a special type starship and some bigger secret mystery at play none of them are privy to. And yes possibly Section 31 based as well. And of course the Romulans would still be up to something because they are still Romulans lol.
So there are tons of ideas out there that are just more than hopping on another random starship and having obligatory first contact or diplomatic missions. It can still be different but familiar at the same time.
The permutations with the v’ger storyline are boundless. One of the tmp vfx guys had the takeaway based on his reading of some version of the script that as soon as vger got empowered, the first thing it patterned for data storage was the machine planet itself!
“It should really be “Jason Bourne + a darker version of The West Wing”, not “Mission Impossible meets Guardians of the Galaxy”. And by Bourne, I mean the shadowy geopolitical chessplaying that Bourne is supposed to have been a footsoldier for before his memory loss & redemption, not the hand-to-hand action stuff. Put another way, it should be like DS9’s “In the Pale Moonlight” and that other DS9 episode with the Latin name we can never remember how to spell.”
Exactly Jai! That’s what I think, on top of everything else, is what fans were actually expecting even if they don’t like the idea of the group itself or a genocidal leader fronting it. As TG1701 alluded to, something with a bit more gravitas and seriousness. A type of introspection we haven’t really seen with this group before. Again maybe we WILL get that on some level, but even Yeoh describes it more as Mission Impossible, which is not a BAD thing, but Section 31 was seen more like a Jason Bourne as you said. Yeah, there is lots of action in those stories, but there is a lot of intrigue and questioning your actions because what they were doing WAS considered wrong.
Mission Impossible is the feel good, we are still playing by the book and everyone can sleep well when the mission is done type of spy team. That’s not what Section 31 is, it is closer to the Jason Bourne model, we are giving up our morals and values because we do the shadiest things possible for democracy and making sinister moves to maintain it. Mission Impossible is the fun sleight of hand, crazy car chases and over the top stunts to defeat the villain. Bourne is the moody, cynical sniper rifle/political assassination missions and questioning if they have become the villain themselves in the process.
But I like your point about Sloan targeting Bashir as an operative because they still used people who wanted to do the right thing and in the right way and a reminder of why they did it. That was the thing about Section 31, it really was trying to protect innocent people at all costs, it never came off as something that was trying to overtake or change the Federation. Like Sisko In the Pale Moonlight, it did what it had to with questionable measures, but the outcome always benefited the good side. So there was always nuance there. They are not out to be evil and destructive, but yes will do those things to maintain the status quo. That’s why it’s fascinating to have a group like this in Star Trek.
Unfortunately this movie doesn’t look like it will get to anything like what we got in DS9 but yeah hopefully we will be proven wrong.
Happy New Year and happy holidays to you Tiger2. All the best to everyone for 2025.
So we start off the year with S31. First off, does anyone know what the plans are for Canada? I have not read anywhere that CTV Sci-Fi Channel is picking up the movie, but I also haven’t seen any confirmation that Paramount+ Canada will stream the show. Hopefully we’ll get confirmation soon.
As for the story and many of the comments, they mirror many of my concerns. The original trailer was pretty bad and the follow up was a little better but not exactly a big improvement. Hey, I agree with you Tiger2, go ahead and give us something new – but within the structure that Star Trek fans are all familiar with.
If the S31 movie gives us a deep dive into the underbelly of the Federation, that focus is fine with me – with the caveat that we also see at least SOME of the usual starships with the crews wearing the usual uniforms, etc. If they choose to completely ignore that familiar background, then I have a feeling that this will fail miserably, unless of course the story is fantastic. I would not hold my breath hoping for that, but who knows, I may be pleasantly surprised. If that happens, then to quote Sisko, “I can live with it!”
Happy New Year to you too DeanH! :)
And unfortunately I have no clue what they intend to do about airing it in Canada. In fact I assumed it would just run on Space as the shows already do but I guess that’s not the case. Hopefully you guys will hear something soon. But so far, it sounds like it’s only playing in a few areas outside of America and whoever has Paramount+, so you’re clearly not alone.
I think most of us just don’t understand how people who have been running Star Trek for basically fifteen years now still seem to be this clueless? On one hand, they seem to understand they have to play to the base on some level and why Rachel Garret Is even there but same time ignore everything else that appeals to fans in the first place.
It’s just bizarre. Maybe this is something Paramount itself wanted to try and get new fans on board, but I don’t understand why they feel they have to go on such an extreme level? And if you feel the only way you can get new fans to like Star Trek is by ignoring everything that makes it Star Trek, then what is even the point???
I’m not saying that is the strategy but if it is, yes, it will most likely fail miserably and please neither side.
It looks like Paramount+ Canada will be the only way to watch the new S31 movie. That said, supposedly Amazon Prime can link to P+ with a free 3 month trial, so I may try that or just pay the $6.99 and then cancel after watching. Will wait and see if CTV Sci-Fi ends up with S31, but at least there appears to be options for us north of the border.
Well that’s at least good to know. I thought it was a Prodigy season 2 situation and there were no outlets at all that were showing it.
And if you’re in no rush to see it, I would just wait too and see if you can get a better option although $6.99 for P+ is really good and I think the same price the commercial version is here. I’m actually floored that’s the price in Canada lol.
It sucks Canada isn’t getting thos movie yet. But in the end they are probably doing you a favor. 😉
And everything about this movie so far is hard whispering dumpster fire. There isn’t a single thing in those trailers that stand out or interests me except the scenes where someone is trying to kill Georgiou. And I could be wrong about this but I’m probably supposed to have a different reaction to those.
Von Braun was instrumental in the Apollo program.
Humans are complicated, both individually and collectively.
We have to hope our better angels will prevail. But not to pretend our demons don’t exist. I think that’s what Star Trek is really about.
our better angels will not prevail through genocidal organizations. That’s idealistic and disingenuous. Once you pump power into an organization, the sheer amount of perverse incentives necessitates it to be evil.
Fans and the general audience would be receptive to something new, but instead all we get is dumbed down Trek, boring, repetitious action with dialogue straight out of 7th grade recess. That’s the problem, not something different, but an amped up more of the same, a shrill Star Trek without authenticity, without heart or mind, in it or behind it. Always feel sorry for the actors, because casting has been great for everything, making the writing even more tragic, a sin against the stars.
Exactly! This just looks and sounds awful. Different is not the issue, its being bad that is problem.
This looks like a bad generic Syfy movie I wouldn’t have remotely watched if it didn’t have Star Trek in the title.
I second this. Trek being different has never been the issue. The problem is quality and caliber of writing.
Yep, what a lot of NuTrek is still missing today.
Dumbed-down junk like this is exactly what Star Trek fans DON’T want. It’s beyond perplexing that Paramount actively chooses to make content that isn’t desired by Star Trek fans.
Some fans obviously do want it, and that is ok as long as that “style” isn’t all we ever get.
I think Paramount is just disappointed that Star Trek isn’t their Marvel or Star Wars. They haven’t learned to embrace Star Trek for what it is and will continue trying to copy the successful IP of competitors.
They had the chance to buy Marvel and turned it down, so that’s on them.
You’re right though that they keep wanting it to get bigger and bigger and emulate other franchises in the process. It wasn’t so bad when it meant getting movies in the first place because of Star Wars, or aping Aliens a little for First Contact. The real poisoned chalice was Star Trek 2009 doing so well. Suddenly Paramount got dollar signs in their eyes like never before. They took a risk spending big, but by copying liberally from Star Wars they suddenly had a medium big movie franchise. That dictated how they handled live action Trek on TV from then on, to the point where if we ever do get a cerebral show that vaguely resembles 90s Trek it might actually be novel.
Yeah, sadly, the Kelvin movies probably did more damage than good in the end. Because once they got a taste of the possibility of Star Trek competing with the bigger franchises and it ultimately failed in that endeavor, it really has sidelined the entire movie franchise because the expectations have now gone too high OR they feel they can’t make lower costs films anymore and its probably both. And that it can’t just be Star Trek, it has to feel more Marvel or Star Wars in its approach. And yes that mentality has rubbed off on the shows as well, Discovery originally being the worst culprit.
And we’re now coming up on the ninth year, the ninth damn year without a theatrical Star Trek movie. It has never been anywhere this long before. Lots of ‘announcements’ and false starts, still zero results in all this time.
It’s still ironic to me the movie series that supposedly ‘saved’ Star Trek has made it worse in the process. I guess SW fans feel the same way with the Sequel trilogy and some of the new shows.
It’s always a be careful what you wish for proposition I guess.
I will say JJ verse did have good intentions of course. It was trying to make Star Trek have global appeal and they had to make it less ‘cerebral’ which I was OK with. I don’t have a problem with Star Trek being action based because that’s always been Star Trek.
The problem was when it just became the Marvel super villain trope with a Star Wars sheen again and again because they seem to think that was the ONLY way to make Star Trek big enough and as we saw even that was never enough.
The TOS and TNG movies definitely had their problems too and TNG strayed from what made it special by having nothing but supervillains either but it still felt like Star Trek. They didn’t try to Star Wars those movies up.
JJ verse is like what this movie feels like, Star Trek in name only and JJ verse at least kept the look of the universe even if we got Apple bridges and white Khan, it was obvious it was still Star Trek, they just gutted what made it special to imitate other and bigger franchises.
But they have basically took a movie series that could at least make some money if not a billion dollars and torpedoed that because can’t find a way to make a movie less than $200 million which was already ridiculous for Star Trek movies. And they know the next one can fail and why they moved away from JJ verse. But then they seem too afraid to make anything new because they probably feel they can’t market it to the masses like they can with Fratboy Kirk and Emo Spock. But they no longer have big appeal either to make any real money.
It’s now literally 2025 and we heard zip about when the next movie is starting. Do you think they will even make that Starfleet movie? It’s looking doubtful by the month. And if that doesn’t happen, when do you think another movie will even get made???
We’ll probably get two more streaming movies first if Section 31 doesn’t completely suck donkey balls.
They got that from Wrath of Khan not MCU. The Revenge villain trope we have seen in most of the movies and even Picard season 3. It’s the worst legacy of Star Trek II. They always have to try and recapture that. I don’t think they are done, they will go back there, again and again, and again. because it worked the first time and was novel only the first time. Like how they copied the destruction of the Enterprise twice. and that was novel in Star trek III only.
They’ve tried to do shock deaths like Spock and it only worked for Spock.
A bunch of copies to the point how many times a copy. So creatively bankrupt.
I wonder what Nick Meyer thinks of it all. His film saved and doomed the franchise to endlessly repeat itself.
You’re obviously right, it’s more from TWOK than Marvel, I just mean that every movie felt like a comic book movie because the villain always makes the stakes as big as those. In TWOK, Khan was only trying to get revenge against Kirk. But in the other movies, it’s the Federation itself they are trying to destroy because it’s not enough to just kill one guy or take out a ship. Most comic book stories they don’t just want to kill Superman or Iron Man, it’s Earth or humanity as a whole they have beef with and want to destroy.
That’s what JJ verse has become.
And actually I should’ve said D.C. because they specifically said Khan in STID was their version of the Joker from TDK and a big reason they added the character. But everyone thinks of Marvel first these days.
And everything you said is why I don’t care the movies are dead because they keep repeating the same things and I don’t understand why? Stop making Khan villains who wants revenge. Stop crashing the Enterprise. Stop attacking Earth. Stop blowing up planets. Stop the fake out deaths (well that’s become a Star Trek trope at this point lol).
But the movies have gotten so tedious because some movie executive seems to think a Star Trek movie can only be successful if they keep including the same 5 things in all of them, like most comic book movies.
“Do you think they will even make that Starfleet movie? It’s looking doubtful by the month. And if that doesn’t happen, when do you think another movie will even get made???”
Sorry I missed this until now. My honest answer is I have no idea. They can announce tomorrow they signed up a cast and start shooting it in 3 months but I seriously doubt that will happen lol.
Again, they seem to want another movie, but no one seems motivated to actually make one. It’s just so bizarre at this point.
My ONLY guess is they are still trying to get it off the ground since the director and writer (on paper anyway) are still part of the project. Once we hear one of them has left altogether then it’s probably as dead as all the ones before it.
But if we don’t hear anything in the next few months, then it’s probably DOA since there was an article stating they were suppose to start production early this year although the original press release was that they were suppose to start late last year too, so…yeah.
And my guess is we won’t see it until 2027 the earliest now and that’s being very optimistic. More realistically another movie won’t happen until 2028 unless they start the damn thing by the middle of this year. But I have been saying basically the same thing since 2018, so…
Bro I was going to push back and say 2028 is probably too far away before we get another movie and then I remembered saying back in 2016 waiting until 2020 seemed a bit long to put out another movie and that was almost 9 years ago now. 😂🙄
Whats another 3 more years at this point? Or another 4 or 5?
In all honesty I don’t think another movie will happen even by then. Maybe they will surprise us the Starfleet movie does get shot this year. But since we know there won’t be a movie in time for the 60th, I don’t think there is any rush to make it now. My theory all along is they are probably just waiting for Skydance to take over and then they will decide.
And they may just cancel those and do something completely different. And some people are suggesting maybe they will make another JJ verse movie since they financed the last two. But the last one bombed, so they are probably not in a rush to make another one lol. And they know most people don’t care about those movies anymore.
And they had nine years to put money up for the next one too but looks like no takers. But they threw in money for the new Mission Impossible and Transformers movies.
Yep, all possibilities obviously. I know you and others have suggested these movies were basically created to show Skydance or whoever the new owners were things were in development at least and even then ‘development’ may be too strong of a word.
But yes, maybe we will actually get the Starfleet movie but if anyone is still holding their breath for it, I would exhale now.
I still remember all the arguments this is now a ‘new regime’ and they are deadly serious about getting a new movie out as soon as possible. Hopefully the next new regime won’t feel as incompetent or apathetic about making another one. And I have no problems if they scrap the Starfleet or Kelvin movie for something different since no one seems particularly excited about them anyway.
I always hesitate to join the negative choir on Star Trek because there is so much shallow negativity about the political optics and I don’t want to be on their side. ….I’m not on their side.
That being said I am so dubious of “re-interpretations” or “re-imagined” versions of Star Trek because those intepretations always seemingly just make star trek fashionable to whatever alien make-up, character tropes, plot tropes and sci-fi tropes are oft recurring in popular entertainment. Said another way they seem to sap the unique-ness of star trek and see how much they can make it look like everything else to illustrate they can do the same kind of work their peers are doing.
The second i see his hair, make-up and that suit (in that picture above) I can see from here what trope he is…and i can see from here how dull its going to be.
New Star Trek is often so boring visually, aesthetically and narratively and feels INCREDIBLY derivative. The path less travelled and the unique-ness of what they could do now is follow the formula offered of the 90s star trek. It actually would stick out and be the path less travelled.
Actually I agree with what you say. This is especially true I think in the production designs and space shots of modern Trek. One of Trek’s uniqueness was its ship designs and its excellent, crisp clear space shots that made a person look in awe. In the new shows almost all the designs are generic and boxy and you can barely see anything anymore in the space shots. That “awe” factor is gone.
The movie isn’t out yet, but they’re already begging the fans for mercy because they know it sucks?
In Principal Skinner’s voice: “Pathetic.”
I don’t think it’s that at all. The comment the actor made is a comment on the nature of fandom. This tendency to immediately dismiss anything different. It happens all the time in Trek fandom, it’s even worse in Star Wars fandom.
This doesn’t sound good at all. I was already skeptical since it starred Adolf but was hoping we at least we get a good Star Trek story out of it. And now it sounds like even one of the actors think it sucks. He’s not saying exactly that, but let’s be real that’s what he’s saying.
Why call something Star Trek if you don’t want to make it Star Trek? That was Discovery entire problem when it started and it sounds like these people still haven’t learned their lesson.
Discovery IS Star Trek though. It’s just not the type of show you wanted. That doesn’t mean it isn’t Star Trek.
Yeah Discovery was Star Trek but it also felt like a generic sci fi show at times and especially in its first season. In other words you could’ve called it something else and no one would’ve noticed the difference, especially with those weird ass Klingons. The only way we knew they were Klingons because we were told they were. 🙄
That’s literally the same problem with this movie although at least the aliens look like traditional aliens.
No one ever had that problem with any of the Star War shows or movies. Because say what you will about that franchise, they at least try to make every story look and feel as Star Wars as possible
I concur, the biggest issue with some modern Trek is trying to feel like anything other than Star Trek. Yes it’s all Star Trek but they seem embarrassed at times to telegraph that. But I guess you could say that actually started with Enterprise. It was Star Trek through and through but they did try to at least down play it in the marketing to get new fans on board even to the point of not having Star Trek in the title and yes that now infamous theme song.
But I guess it really speaks to trying to appeal to as many people as possible. Look at the teaser of the first Kelvin movie with the building of the saucer and hearing Nimoy’s voice at the end. Then look at the teaser for Beyond and it’s a GOTG rip off and a completely different vibe from that very first trailer was trying to convey seven years earlier; even though it’s literally the same movie series. It’s like they are two different franchises at times.
It’s still shocking to me the first season of Discovery and the first season of SNW were made by the same people, but again, it probably speaks to who they were aiming for at the time.
And it’s pretty crazy we are going from a show like Lower Decks that revels in all the Trek iconography and elements to Section 31 which seems almost afraid to show it. One is not afraid to geek out as much as possible (and a reason it’s so loved by many) while the other seems embarrassed to even be a geek. Yeah, it all feels schizophrenic in how they been handling this franchise the last 15 years.
Star Wars has always tried to maintain the same motifs and visuals in every movie and show. It’s funny how even given it story issues, it has maintained the look and feel through the last 50 years.
Star Trek mostly did that through Enterprise (although people complained bitterly that show looked too advanced compared to TOS back then) but yeah it’s only gotten worse since then. Way worse in some cases as many feel as this movie is proving.
Exactly man, it’s like two different groups of people are running these shows and movies at times. I get for the TV shows, they are trying to appeal to different audiences. Stuff like LDS, SNW and Picard are made for old fans while stuff like Discovery in the beginning, Prodigy and whatever the bleep Section 31 is supposed to be is probably for new fans. But look how they treated Prodigy. It still looked and felt like Star Trek. At first I was a little afraid they were going The Clone Wars route (and I love that show too) but by the third episode it was great Trek again and stayed that way for both seasons.
But Discovery and Section 31 just feels so completely off the mark to me. And Discovery just felt so odd because they placed it in the same era with TOS. That’s why they had to move it 900 years into the future because they knew how ridiculous it felt being there since it looked nothing like TOS.
If it was at least a 25th century show and the Klingons looked like Klingons, most people probably would’ve been OK with it more if the stories were better too. Because then it could look totally different. But trying to reboot the look of a show when it was suppose to be a prequel to the original show that started it all was just dumber than dumb.
How could people who get paid an insane amount of money not see how bad these decisions were before they approved them?
Oh yeah Prodigy was done very well in how it was marketed IMO and had a strong Trek vibe, but sadly that doesn’t automatically translate to many views either.
Discovery was obviously trying to reboot Trek for a new audience which I have said many times I had no issue with but it was probably a better idea to just call it a reboot, set it in its own universe and do what they wanted. But I guess they knew how much fans wanted to return to the Prime universe and that was the compromise to very mixed results. But that’s all in hindsight now.
But how they have marketed the new stuff have been very up and down. And I actually remember Bob Orci saying here some of the executives actually suggested to him not to use ‘Star Trek’ as the title of the Kelvin movies either. They obviously felt reminding new audiences marketing something as Star Trek today is more of a hindrance than a positive to grab new people. That really said it all to me.
Error
Glorifying a genocidal paramilitary organization, that openly tortures sapient beings is not Star Trek to anyone who gives a shit about a Trekkian view of the future and humanity, this shit is instead CIA trek. Even the characters in DS9 were openly disgusted by the organization and were trying to dismantle it. The fact that it is getting glorified in every new Star Trek iteration since enterprise is disgusting and ideologically manipulative. Enterprise was the show that began to derail the whole project. Now that being said. There have been many good star trek shows, and star trek elements in the nu-trek shows. It hasn’t been all negative. But it is also time we clean house.
i doubt the movie will do that, ultimately Fed/starfleet principles will be shown to be better than s31.
“I’m terrified of how it’s going to be received, because it’s not the Trek people want.”
Even the actors know the Discovery/Picard S1 & S2/Lower Decks is not the trek people want, yet Paramount keep producing this garbage.
Not true for any of the examples you gave. Many of the Discovery actors are on record for believing they created something that Trek needed and fans wanted. Picard S1 & S2 were HEAVILY INFLUENCED by Patrick Stewart himself who came back because he felt people needed more Picard. And Lower Decks has never batted an eye about believing they were connecting with the fan base who could understand every easter egg, joke, and eye wink in the series. But again, I think all of those actors also truly realized they were on Trek, even if some didn’t completely get it.
Kazinsky and Yeoh know they are on Trek, but I’m not sure Kazinsky even fully understood it until after the fact and realized that he helped create something completely out of balance with the franchise. I’m not sure any of the other cast would say the same. I think Yeoh did it because she loves the character, but I’ve never picked up that she is a huge Trekkie. All the others probably just took the paycheck and called it good. It certainly didn’t hurt that they committed to nothing more than a movie – so if it bombs, they aren’t stuck to a contract.
I honestly believe that most people connected to Kurtzman-Trek are not strongly aware of the feelings of the fan base or what they want. Social media has become such a waste-land that many are told to avoid it for the sake of their mental health. Some of the writers and producers have their ear to the ground, but I really think most of the cast just does their job and moves on. Even if they go to conventions, people don’t tear them apart at those like they do online. So I think a lot of them think they are doing right as long as the shows continue. And, to be frank, more than two seasons is a success at the moment in the streaming world (not to mention five).
There’s serms to be a mistaken belief that doing something “different ” is automatically a good thing. The traditional formula that made Star Trek successful is a solid foundation for diverse storytelling within that formula. Same concept as a cliche becoming a cliche because it’s a proven methodology. Especially since at the end of the day , there are so many types stories that can be told in all of literature. Let’s face it, people get turned off with “old content” . TNG would be fresh to soneone who did not grow up with it but its still perceived as old hat by many. . So IMO there’s nothing wrong with sticking to the core Star Trek formula but with new modern technologies and production value to lore in new people. . If your doing something different at the core, a question should be asked as to why you are going in that direction. Doing something different” just “for the sake of doing something different is not enough. DS9 was certainly different but there was a distinct vision on why they chose to go in that direction. I will reserve final judgment until after it’s release but it seems to me while different for Star Trek , Section 31 will be a generic Sci movie with anti-hero protagonists with a fun and dumb storyline.
Can that kind of movie appeal to me? Perhaps. But I’m not feeling that with all the promotional materials and learning about the story lines thus far.
It’s Guardians of the Galaxy meets Suicide Squad. What could go wrong. At least they didn’t sink 200 million into this.
I think what you said here, the same thing happened with the Stargate franchise and as a result that franchise is now dormant for nearly 15 years. They just changed the root of the Stargate format too much with their final show Stargate Universe and it crashed and burned. The root format of Stargate was excellent and you said was open to many different story possibilities. The biggest difference here was that it was Stargate’s original producers and creators who basically destroyed the franchise that they created.
star trek fans dont like star trek until like 10-20 years later so it will be fine in a few decades
Well it’s been over 20 years since movies like TFF and Nemesis came out and people still hate those. TV shows do seem to be fare better though but this is a movie.
Actually, there’s a lot of love out there for TFF now, including from me. Nemesis not so much, but sometimes a turd is just a turd. But the point does stand: VOY and ENT were reviled by many during their airing, but fandom now generally embraces them. There is definitely a shift toward forgiveness over time.
The forgiveness angle is an intriguing one. I don’t feel it with respect it to tv, but do get it with some older movies I was initially disappointed in, like brass target. I first noticed this in the 80s when I might happen across a turkey on tbs like telefon – yeah that is how it is spelled – and realize it was actually mildly entertaining when broken up by commercials. That’s setting the bar pretty low!
I know TFF is already at the top of your list Kmart! ;D
Yeah, but that was day 1 love from me, not a reconsideration.
In fact, based on first screening opinions, I think TVH and TFF are the only ones that I had a really good feel about on opening day — even TWOK took a second viewing before I utterly dug it. On the other hand, my opinion of TVH has just sunk lower and lower over the years, to the point I consider it bottom of the TOS barrel, just below TSFS. Though ultimately TMP, TWOK and TFF are the only ones I really care about … the other three now mostly feel to me like mediocre season 3 shows, but with better effects.
I always enjoy your opinions even if we see things wildly different lol. And I actually loved TFF first time I saw it as well. Of course I was still a kid and just happy to see the gang together. It was subsequent showings where I really noticed the cracks. But I can still watch it and I do love all the scenes with Kirk, Spock and Bones together and their banter. The turbolift scene is probably still my favorite. That’s really where it shines and why I loved it so much originally.
I still really enjoy TVH as well, but same time I get why others have issues with it.
You’re one of the reasons I stuck around here through some rough times, and yeah, that is in spite of some oft-times contrary (from me!) takes on things. I think I’ve got a schizoid view of most Trek, in that I can’t watch it in any incarnation without my inner critic coming out (less on some things than others.) My wife has had to suffer my ‘commentaries’ on these films and others a long time, and she now only watches Trek or Bond with me when I am in ‘mute’ mode (though when we watch a movie with an actual commentary turned on, she doesn’t mind hearing me spar with the unseen voices about various aspects, crazy as that might seem.)
There have been times in the last 10 years when I woke up early and just went out and watched TSFS and TVH, basically for the good stufff parts, on mute. I mean, I know the dialog forwards and backwards, so the only real loss is the music and sound effects, and I know them forwards and backwards as well, so I’m only really losing the hyping-action effect of the music. It kind of reminds me of when I was just becoming a teenager and audio taping various episodes of TOS and playing them back, but now using the visual part of my brain instead of the auditory one. It’s still fun, so I can’t say I truly hate any of these (though I’d say I still have never been able to watch the 09 ‘for fun.)
Wow that’s very nice to say dude, I really appreciate that! I didn’t realize you were thinking of leaving at any time but definitely happy you stayed.
And your view of what you think is good Trek is definitely more limited to mine but I am admittedly an unabashed fanboy lol. I can admit of liking most of the stuff in the Berman and Kurtzman era and I know it’s the complete opposite for you. You’re more critical but why I love reading your views on things. And of course you know I’m not an apologist, I am definitely hard on things too (like I am with this movie so far); but I also admit I always try to look at everything with the glass half full because end of the day I want to love everything, but its OK if I don’t either.
I can’t imagine what your wife has to put up with though lol. Quick question, is she a big Trek fan too? If so does she like more of the films and shows than you do?
And you have mentioned in the past you put stuff on mute a lot which I find interesting. Do you at least put the closed captioning on to follow the dialogue?
And I like more of the films than you do (although we seem to be complete opposites in terms of our favorites) but I mostly love the TOS films and by far still the best IMO. Certainly like the TNG and Kelvin movies but like you, pretty divided on both of those too.
Watching movies on mute is something I discovered as a teenager, when I did a lot of flying between parents in California and Hawaii — my dad worked for Western Airlines so it wasn’t an economic issue — and found I kept seeing the same three movies (THE TURNING POINT, ONE ON ONE, JULIA) over and over. It really helped me learn to appreciate cinematography as essential to good storytelling and, conversely, to realize just how much music is needed to save most movies, help keep a viewer awake or to make the flick seem better than it really was. This was at a time when I first saw FAIL-SAFE on TV and realized, ‘this movie is so good it didn’t need a music score to hype things,’ something I found true about NETWORK and THE CHINA SYNDROME as well.
I used to watch movies with subtitles some of the time, but am often distracted when I notice the subtitles are not correct. I really need to find out what kind of bluetooth headphones work with my TV!
My wife was never a Trek fan, probably because her old roommate made her stand in the rain for an hour to see TUC opening night, but I gradually won her over to it, at least the TOS side of things, with BALANCE OF TERROR and ERRAND OF MERCY and THE EMPATH (that was between showing her 2001, PATTON and the aforementioned NETWORK.) She really likes THE ENTERPRISE INCIDENT (while fully acknowledging the implications it raises, like how it is ‘okay’ to do a bad thing because we are the ‘good’ guys), THIS SIDE OF PARADISE and MIRROR MIRROR.
We both really enjoy most of DS9 (THE VISITOR is probably her favorite hour of any TREK), but she like I have never gotten through VOY and ENT. I think she liked dsc s2 a little, probably entirely due to Mount, but basically I don’t think she cares enough to watch any further Trek, though we do an annual TMP rewatch around the time of my birthday. She figures if she keeps forcing herself to watch it, she might understand me a little better, because she like most of the planet thinks it is a mess.
Maybe a little more today, sure, but I still rarely see TFF at the top of anyone’s list either. It’s usually still at the bottom of most. I personally never hated the movie but it’s still at the low end of my list too.
The shows however are much more resilient for whatever reason. And why I think shows like Discovery and Picard will probably become more popular through the years than they are now like DS9, VOY and ENT are today. But just my opinion obviously.
I was curious so I went and checked the RT scores of Nemesis and TFF.
If TFF is considered more popular today then I hate to know just hated it was back in the 80s since it currently has a 25% critic score and a 23% audience score and still easily the lowest rated movies on that site. 😂
Nemesis is not great either but actually higher than TFF with a 38% critics score and a 49% audience score. It’s still bad but I’m shocked the audience score is so high with nearly half the votes being positive and Nemesis is still my worst movie in the bunch. TFF my third worst.
Yeah and on IMDB it’s also at the dead bottom of the list with a truly dismal 5.5 rating, the lowest Trek rated product period. But it really goes to my point I was originally making how the least popular shows themselves seem to gain popularity in time but the movies rarely do the same for some reason. But the shows seem to be better rated than the films overall, at least according to IMDB.
To show what I’m talking about, here are the bottom lists of the worst shows vs the movies.
The worst rated shows:
Lower Decks-7.8
Enterprise- 7.6
Prodigy-7.6
Picard-7.5
Animated Series- 7.2
Discovery- 7.0
All said and done, not really bad right? They are all in the average range meaning not amazing but far from terrible either.
Now here are the worst rated movies:
Generations-6.6
Search for Spock- 6.6
Insurrection- 6.4
Motion Picture- 6.4
Nemesis- 6.4
Final Frontier-5.5
Not only are the worst rated films rated below average unlike the worst rated shows, but from what I can tell, also unlike the shows, none of them has rarely risen from those spots in years.
For example, back in 2009 when I can remember first looking at its rating Enterprise was at a 7.0 and was the lowest rated show at the time where Discovery is at today. But for all the talk how badly people thought of that show back then and now Discovery today, it clearly is not as bad as message boards and social media seems to say it is and a healthy rating. If they were considered truly bad by the masses they would probably be somewhere between what TFF and the other movies are rated now.
And like how Enterprise has risen through the years, so has all the modern shows as well. In fact Discovery, Lower Decks and Prodigy originally all started in the 6 category in their first seasons and all have only risen since, LDS easily the most improved and has only gotten higher with every season.
But then look at the movies? It’s funny how most of them are essentially around the same rating. How TMP is even that high I will never get it? I know it’s a big fan favorite on this board but I’m getting sleepy even talking about it lol. But none of them has risen much in years if not decades. And if they have, it’s by maybe a point or two but they are all pretty low in general.
That’s why I always say for whatever reason, the shows are just generally better received in the fanbase. Even the top films like the first Kelvin movie is rated around a 7.9 which is solid but the top show which is TNG at an 8.7 is still leagues ahead. In fact TNG, TOS, DS9 and SNW are all rated an 8 or above. And DS9 also used to be lower back in the day. Not that low but around a 7.5 where Picard is today.
Again NO ONE has to take this list that seriously but it does show had stagnant the films are in terms of popularity vs the shows which only seems to get more popular over time and not less. That’s why I constantly say most NuTrek shows will more than likely only get more popular in time and not less because it’s already happening now.
And also why I like about lists like this proves regardless of ALL the moaning and whining about how Kurtzman Trek is a detriment to the franchise and his shows are generally viewed as bad and unpopular, especially if you listen to all the Anti-NuTrek videos on YT, proves this isn’t the case at all. They are in fact no less popular than the classic shows. And the Kelvin movies are in fact some of the most popular in the franchise as well. So it goes against the constant talking points you see everywhere, even on this board.
And as far as TFF, yes, maybe it’s more popular today in some circles but consensus wise, it still appears to be in the bottom of the barrel.
Wow that is a pretty wide gap between the two.
Am I surprised Discovery is the least popular show? NOPE! 😁
But I agree that’s not a poor rating either, especially seeing how bad the movies are. And not going to lie, with the exception of Generations and TSFS, I probably wouldn’t even bother watching the rest of those again. I can’t remember the last time I watched any of them including GEN and TSFS. And you can throw in the first two JJ verse movies but I know those are at least popular.
But the moviee have never been a match to me compared to the shows anyway. I think most fans would prefer the shows even if they love the movies too.
And I’m so happy to see LDS so high on the list now!! CERRITOS STRONG!!! It’s now the second highest NuTrek show after SNW. It’s even beating Picard. No way anyone thought that would happen back in 2020.
I been hard on NuTrek but the shows have definitely improved so I understand why they are doing better today.
And the shows do age better. I remember back when I hated Enterprise I never saw myself rewatching it again once I finally watched it. I told myself that will be it for good and that was back in 2009. I ended up liking it, especially season 3 and 4 which is still great Trek, but because it was a prequel I just thought I would have no desire to watch any of it ever again.
I’ve probably rewatched the show about five or six times now. Even the first two seasons are much stronger today than they were back then. It’s weird how that happens haha.
But I have little desire to watch Nemesis or TFF again. And I can’t get through TMP longer than a half an hour so I feel you on that too.
Actually I might take another crack at TFF if Sybok appears on SNW again. Yeah the movie suck but Sybok is a total badass! 😉
you guys are so proving my point it’s hilarious. trek fans are kind of awful. they dislike everything. individually yeah people like things but as a group you all didn’t like ds9 as much as disco… gene was spinning in his grave with ds9 and they said ds9 was not star trek… sound familiar?
It’s like you didn’t read the conversation. He made the point the new shows aren’t as hated as some fans make it out to be. SNW haven’t been on for 20 years yet but it’s still up there with TOS, TNG and DS9. It’s one of my favorites too.
So if Trek fans are so awful why is that show so high after just two seasons?
Lower Decks is pretty high too and it hasn’t been around10-20 years yet either. Explain that one?
But you’re right about one thing, I could not get into DS9 to save my life for years! 🤣
I didn’t think I would ever like that show to be honest. I think I mentioned it here on this board somewhere.
But some fans have hang ups over things versus others. I wasn’t a fan of TOS and ENT foe a long time either just like I wasn’t a DS9 fan. Still haven’t watched every episode of TOS to this day. I’m sure some will call me not a true fan over it but in fairness I been called much worse. 😉
So I’m not disagreeing with everything and I truly expect to hate this movie because it looks so bad and I hate MU Georgiou with a heat of a thousand suns so I’m already going in pretty biased. I’m just hoping to be wrong and will be win over. But if Georgiou dies violently in the movie though it’s already going to get a 7/10 from me so fingers crossed.
I’m always very open about how I feel about something. I don’t remotely pretend to be objective. I thought this was a bad idea before I saw a single frame of this movie. After seeing the trailers it only confirmed it more for me. If that makes me an awful fan then I guess I can live with it.
So I get your point but you can’t put every fan in the same box either.
“It’s like you didn’t read the conversation. He made the point the new shows aren’t as hated as some fans make it out to be. SNW haven’t been on for 20 years yet but it’s still up there with TOS, TNG and DS9. It’s one of my favorites too.”
Correcto. I was trying to make a point that for the most part, the new shows have been gaining more traction with fans in general since A. they have been steadily climbing in terms of audience scores and reviews and B. many are already in a solid rating category which is more impressive when you remember majority of these shows haven’t even reached 50 episodes; and yet unlike most of the classic shows that took 3 and 4 seasons to be more accepted and basically took 50-100 episodes to even get there.
These shows seem to be getting more popular in less time than the older shows. That’s a good thing, but they are not all going to be TNG over night either.
I was trying very hard to be objective, show some positivity and make clear when you wipe out all the online noise and ignore the back and forth on fan boards like this, the ridiculous anti-woke YT hate moron videos, the general audience seems to be enjoying these shows more than not lately.
I’ve also brought up the fact in another post that for the last few years now, fans on this board have generally loved every season of SNW, PRO and LDS with especially high praise for Picard season 3. Again, it doesn’t mean EVERYONE or every episode is loved of course, but when you see the general projectory of how those seasons were received, it is way more positive than negative. And that’s a total of ten seasons and 120 episodes of shows. There has been 5 new shows on the air and 3 out of those 5 seems to be pretty well liked.
But instead, what was the response? THIS PROVES OLD FANS ALWAYS HATE ANYTHING NUTREK!!!!!!
I give up. It’s no point trying to have a well rounded conversation. Yeah everyone here apparently hates everything and everyone is too bitter and closed minded to like any of the new shows or movies.
Glad that’s been covered.
LOL, yeah you tried bro. You always try to be fair, a reason so many people like reading your posts.
But as we see time and time again, people just get in their own head and convince themselves the world is always against them. Some people will always look at things through a prism I guess.
And I never remotely cared what Roddenberry thought about anything either since he was long dead before I became a fan. I’m much more interested in Ronald D. Moore take on things however and I’m pretty sure he thinks Lower Decks is awesome too! 😎🖖
Now I’m curious. Has anyone ever read or heard Moore’s thoughts on LDS? I would love to know too but I think maybe he doesn’t think an animated comedy is the right direction to go in Star Trek. Could be wrong and just my gut feeling but he has been pretty positive on most things so far.
Don’t ruin this for me man lol!
LOL, point taken!
It just hit me, but I’m very curious now what the rating is going to look like for Section 31? Since its fair to say everyone’s expectations are a lot lower now, maybe it become like Discovery season 5 and considered ar least decent if still not anything great.
But if this thing truly suck real donkey balls like many people are expecting now, expect an internet meltdown we haven’t seen since they introduced the Klingons on Discovery! 😅
But I’m hoping for the best and we actually get a great movie, honestly. But I’m OK with vitriol rage too if it makes for some fun reading. I’m easy!
*sigh* gatekeeping…
In 1966, “True Batman Fans” railed against the campy tone of the new Batman series.
They wanted the original Dark Knight kind of Batman.
Now, 1966 is the benchmark for a lot of boomers.
I’m happy he’s nervous. This movie is brave enough to take some risks.
There are always people who do the hard, ugly work so we can sleep soundly in our beds.
I’m positive the world of Star Trek is no different.
Hang on. The actor isn’t gatekeeping. He’s just saying that he’s worried that this isn’t Star Trek. Just like a lot of fans don’t think that DSC is their Star Trek, or Pic season 1/2.
There’s a difference between a good man making tough choices like Sisko in DS9 and a genocidal “bad bitch” who literally eats people and revells in killing.
Georgiou is problematic and was handled clumsily, but we should still afford her some leeway based on the hasty redemption arc they dumped on her. She left Discovery changed for the better, and open to how Starfleet and the Federation worked and thought.
She’s a complete embarrassment to the franchise and badly acted by Yeoh. They did try and redeem her a bit at the end of Discovery but nothing will ever redeem someone who had billions of deaths on her hands. Just because she no longer wanted to eat Saru doesn’t mean they should overlook all the genocide and war crimes she created.
But apparently Starfleet no longer cares about things like that.
The thing is though if this is “gatekeeping” then literally every and all form of nostalgia we have for the past is “gatekeeping” and I refuse to believe that. I think change can happen without the need to totally destroy somethings soul or roots and if people do enjoy this soul it shouldn’t be considered “gatekeeping”. Otherwise the definition of “gatekeeping” would be so general than we could literally include whatever we want in it and use it as an excuse or argument. Most people here are open to things changing, they just want to see the soul or root of the property kept. Now you may argue that an “entertainment” property is not a living thing and therefore has no soul, but that is another argument for a different time.
In my opinion, gatekeeping is when someone pipes up and says: “This ISN’T Star Trek!” or “Why isn’t Par+ giving us the show EVERYBODY wants?” Please, don’t speak for me and ALL of fandom. When TNG started to air in 1987, a very vocal group of fans screamed bloody murder. There was “Trek Classic! Who Needs A Next Generation?” T-shirts at cons everywhere. Nobody gets to claim what Trek is or isn’t. Our only choice as fans is to tune in or don’t. Full stop.
Judge it when fans see it, not before. Too many toxic fans destroy these things before they even get the chance.
They’ve had opportunities to re-frame the trailers to make this more “Trek”. They could have produced the original “action” trailer, and then come back with an alternate that appeals to the fanbase. Since they didn’t, I don’t think it’s a lack of understanding of how to pull in the Trek faithful. They didn’t make anything different because what you see is what you get.
As for “toxic fans”, I’d say that’s a stretch. Toxic comments, maybe, but most fans just want to see quality content being made and hold the creators responsible for their choices. Negativity is the only way to get through to many of those in higher positions today. Positivity bias just confirms that everything is great (which they already believe). In my opinion, not everything is great in Trek-world right now. And I really don’t think the trailers are just in place to scare us all for the fun of it.
Exactly. I thought they were going to do what they did with the Beyond trailers and after people booed the first one for being awful and trying to appeal to Marvel fans which turned a lot of actual Trek fans off. But the second one felt like classic Star Trek again and most people praised it including me.
Instead they just doubled down on why I hated the first one. Because unlike Beyond, this movie probably doesn’t have a lot of Star Trek elements in it and what the actor is saying. It’s completely different and because of that he fears most people will think it suck.
We’re only reacting to the trailers and being honest about it. How is that ‘toxic’? Everyone is pretty civil. No one is jumping down anyone’s throat who likes it (there seems to be only 3 people who do, but still). And if its good I will happily say so.
Being toxic means you want it to all burn down because you hate it that much and I don’t want that. I just want good Star Trek.
I will look at it… Doubt if I will like it.
I do understand where he’s coming from since he is a fellow fan. He wants people to like this, because it would break his heart to be involved in something they don’t. I empathize. I’ve worked on a couple sets in which I was proud of the work we’d done, but then the films didn’t do well with critics. It hurts. I get it.
Still, there’s a difference between “something new and different but still good” and “something too off the mark.” I’m truly hopeful that this film falls in category A, because IDIC. But everything about this film–the trailers, the publicity photos, the quotes from the cast and writer, the outfits, the music, the very presence of Georgiou–falls squarely in category B. Section 31 are villains. Deep Space Nine, Enterprise, and Into Darkness all made that very clear.
Section 31 thinks they’re the heroes, but they are really the villains. That’s the whole point. Discovery got that aspect wrong, and since this is a spinoff of Discovery, I can’t help but think it will, too. The trailers make it look like Suicide Squad and Guardians of the Galaxy, and the idea behind Suicide Squad and Guardians of the Galaxy is that they’re villains who learn they’re really the heroes–which is the exact opposite of what Section 31 is all about.
So even though I will watch it with an open mind, my expectation for success is unfortunately low, based purely on what we’ve seen so far, and on the fact that it went through more a than a half-dozen entirely different iterations before the movie was finally made. Filmmaking by committee almost never works, and the trailers so far are typical of the result.
I agree so much. And of course the actors have very little to do with the projects they are making. They sign on hoping it will be good of course but many just want to work at the end of the day and an IP as big as Star Trek knows they are on something that will be seen and discussed for possibly years on end. So of course they want it to be good and hope fans like it. I think everyone involve always feels that way.
But I think this movie is trying to take a huge gamble on a concept many already questioned and while partly noble, this can easily blow up in their face if the reaction to literally everything about this project has been any indication.
Section 31 has always been controversial since their introduction on DS9. I have always liked them personally but of course I get why others didn’t. I thought they were handled well on Enterprise too. But I think in the modern era, they just have not been portrayed that well and have made to look even more evil than before. When Admiral Marcus tried to blow up the freaking flag ship of the Federation in STID to start a war and woke up a former dictator to do it probably went far beyond even what S31 in the Prime universe would ever consider.
But then Discovery came along and now we have a Section 31 being run by murdering A.I. computer and recruited a genocidal dictator in the process…and apparently all with the approval of Starfleet itself.
As said, people were already skeptical of the organization, but then the modern era just made them look so much worse…but wanted to build an entire show around the concept.
Like you, I hope to like this in the end, but everything about it just have huge red flags and the fact Kazinsky is telegraphing this knows he understands all the red flags that every fan could have with this movie.
This doesn’t look good at all. And I feel bad for the actors because they are working with what’s been given to them. My biggest beef with modern Trek going all the way back to 2009, is that Paramount has tried to make it into something that it’s not. It’s not Star Wars, it’s not Marvel, it’s not anything else. Star Trek was always unique/niche and its fanbase was equally as unique compared to other IPS. This new “TV movie” is part of that same formula.
And after the critical and fanbase success of Picard Season 3, fans symbolically screamed for a Legacy show. Instead…we get Starfleet Academy and Section 31, both shows no one really “asked for”. I realize some would welcome it, but I can’t recall any fans screaming for this. Some things are best left in the novels and the comics. It forced us to use our imaginations. Thats what made them so good.
Discovery turned Section 31 into a visible organization that’s easily recognizable to anyone. The fact that everyone knows its name, its members wear special badges, all of that seems to go against the very idea of what the organization is about. The whole point was that they were super secretive and manipulated things behind the scenes for the benefit of the Federation. And every once in a while, its secret members would bump heads with a Starfleet officer of a higher moral character which in turn, caused us the viewers to examine the whole concept and make determinations for ourselves.
There is nothing in the trailer that suggests that this is Star Trek. The look, the feel, the sound, music, all of it seems so far removed from Star Trek that if you subtracted the raised Vulcan eyebrows, changed the dialogue and names to reflect something else, removed Star Trek from that yellow banner, and it’s just another generic show.
Depends on the Star Wars. They are distinct differences between Disney Star Wars and Lucas Star Wars, and a big gulf or divide between the original trilogy and prequel trilogy. Star Wars is not at all homogenous and that not even going into bringing up the old canon that is now Legends. In fact, it is a bigger mess than Star Trek.
The amount of retcons on the prequels, on the clone wars tv series and canon deviations and outright destruction in the sequel trilogy, it’s hard to make a consistent continuity period. At best every project is a one off, if you’re lucky a trilogy will have connective tissue like the prequels and not the sequels where JJ did his Duology and Rian did his standalone.
The worst thing about George Lucas was he had nothing planned and made it up as he went. He had set in stone established canon in the OT which he violated in the prequels, he set himself up by making the middle chapters before the beginning chapters. and then decided not to make the concluding story of old man Luke. The Nine part Saga that became Six can’t be anything but discordant as a connected work. Not even the endless cgi edits and redoes of the originals fixes that nor does denying their existence.
And the Disney trilogy despite having Mark, Carrie and Harrison has no connection to George’s Saga. A new company bought Star Wars and bought Lucasfilm. Those aren’t sequels to Episodes IV, V and VI. I don’t know what they are. I’d rather not dwell on it.
It’s the equivalent of a cover band buying the name to the Beatles and put out a new album you buy it and listen and it’s not The Beatles, but it’s the Beatles we bought the name.
Even though I don’t disagree with many of your points, this post also proves how hard it is both to keep consistent of a story that is told for decades on end but also how hard it is to please the fandom you’re telling those stories to.
Star Trek and Star Wars have more differences than commonalities in so many ways, but they also share the biggest issue fans have with both franchises and that is the continuity of those stories and trying to do it with different voices at the helm.
The one advantage Star Wars did have (or at least it thought it had) was that it really only had one story teller with Lucas who created it and he had more quality control at the time because it was only a few set of movies. Yes, Roddenberry is considered the sole visionary of Star Trek but we all know that’s never been true like it was for Lucas. And when you have a sprawling set of TV shows and films with hundreds of stories behind them and lots of writers and show runners, even less so.
And of course Roddenberry passed long ago and Berman became the new keeper of the flame for nearly 20 years while Lucas stayed sole creator through the prequels and they both got very mixed results by the end of their run according to fandom.
Then of course, the ‘saviors’ showed up with Disney buying Lucasfilm putting Kennedy in charge and Paramount turning Star Trek over to Abrams and then Kurtzman and it’s been non-stop complaining since lol.
In the end, it proves that when you are making something for literally decades on end…and it’s using the same canon that started it all, maybe it’s a good idea to just start from scratch OR stay in the old universe, but take it to a time period where none of that matters anymore and you’re basically starting anew. And of course if you tried to do that, both fandoms will balk at either idea, so here we are.
And I will give Star Trek credit because they at least tried that on some level with the Kelvin timeline and Discovery going to the 32nd century. But as said, those both had very mixed results and has only got some fans more angry by doing these things. In other words, fans are very very fickle, especially for aging franchises where people want the status quo but different at the same time.
Let’s say everything they’ve made is good and i’m wrong, they still ruined Luke Skywalker who the original Saga was about and he was the hero. First, they made him a worthless maguffin. He never trained Rey and force projected himself and died to save his sister, who herself laid down for no reason in episode 9 and also died. After they unceremoniously killed Han in episode 7. Only Lando was unscathed and himself from the originals, not a failure or a loser. We didn’t even get to see Leia as Chancellor of the New Republic with democracy restored and the new golden age of the Jedi with Luke as head of the order.
They redid the originals as sequels or requels. Rebels VS Empire and Jedi Vs Sith, no original story. Rey was Luke 2.0. Kylo was Vader 2.0. Heck i wish this was a separate canon i’d probably like them a whole lot more than if they were canon. And only canon in a legalistic sense because Lucas doesn’t think they are his Star Wars. and Even Mark Hamill said he was playing Jake Skywalker.
And I’m never going to get the canon ending from the original creator for the story of Luke Skywalker because Disney is never publishing those treatments. So, I have to accept either Disney or the legends canon I’ll stick with Legends.
I was one of the one’s who championed JJ because I liked his Star Treks, and I even initially liked force awakens but it sucked after that. Last Jedi is the only Star Wars I actively boycotted. And never saw in theaters in the main 1-9 sequence. I later regretted that and tried to get to see a 70mm showing, but I still have a lot of things I dislike about those movies and mostly it has to with destroying Luke Skywalker.
I still buy the shows on Blu-ray and 4K and i still sometimes get a figure or comic, I haven’t given up Star Wars altogether, but I have to have a mix of the old era and Disney, for balance because, else I hate Disney so much I no longer want to be a fan, and it has nothing to do any culture war.
Then I don’t like the hero dying I hated Generations down to my very bones. and I’ve seen the original of Kirk being shot in the back not exactly Spock sacrificing himself to save his friends and the Enterprise.
Yeah Luke returned in Mando season 2, and I thought that was the real Luke but then we got him teaching Grogu about attachments like a prequel Jedi and that isn’t Luke. Its Young Jake Skywalker.
On New Trek Season 1 of Strange New Worlds, prodigy season 2 and Picard Season 3 were great. SNW season 2 was so mixed, to horrible beyond belief. But had an excellent concluding episode despite what I think about the canon changes with the Gorn I so dislike. I hope Wesley becomes our Kirk, I don’t like the Jim Carrey version. But everything you said people instantly and uncritically hating stuff that is new is right, as well and it’s not new I remember that for TNG and Deep Space Nine.
Except back then people didn’t look backwards and forwards trying to find a hidden progressive message so they could hem and haw online about it for ad revenue and clicks.
But we can’t lie and pretend Deep Space Nine having its first black Captain on the heels of TNG ending, wasn’t met with questioning and in some quarter’s racism.
Sounds impossible now everyone embraces that show and says its classic Star Trek.
And Avery gives a masterful performance from the very first episode, I went back and rewatched Emissary as awful as the streaming version is looks like a bootleg VHS, it was wonderful and expressive, powerful. I don’t think he gets the credit he deserves for this series. They need to remaster the show in HD.
Yeah we mostly agree about Star Wars, especially the Sequel trilogy. I too think out of all the characters, they did Luke the worst, probably the most pivotal character in that saga and yet basically casted aside from the sequels from the beginning.
But this is why it’s probably a good idea to plan these stories out from the beginning instead of just go story by story. Abrams probably had great intentions for Luke and wanted to treat him like he was some mythological figure but still sidelined the guy until the very end of the first movie. Again, I get it, but he should’ve had more of a presence from the start. And then of course Ryan Johnson did the complete opposite of what Abrams was going for and turned him into a hermit who essentially just stopped caring about the Jedi order only to kill him off at the end after doing one good deed.
I don’t hate TLJ as others do, but that was probably the worst decision they could’ve done literally killing the most symbolic and iconic character of the franchise off halfway through your trilogy. Instead, we should’ve saw Luke become this powerful Jedi in the last film joining his sister and helping to defeat the First Order for good. How that didn’t happen (or Johnson thinking his way was the right way) was just boneheaded when you spent all your time hyping that these iconic characters return. Obviously there was only so much they could do with Leia once Carrie Fisher died but they really dropped the ball on all of them IMO.
And like you I originally loved TFA and still think its easily the best of the three. But like how great the openings of Picard seasons 1 and 2 started, they both became very tainted by what we got in the end. That’s what happens when it’s all attached to the same story. And in the Sequel Trilogy case, they created all these mystery boxes from the start only to make them fall flat by the end because the story was so jumbled and just didn’t follow a cohesive pattern.
And Abrams, for all his great skill as a director, just really have little to no imagination as a story teller because he just wanted to redo the OT instead of truly coming up with something more original. And I understand he was trying to revitalize SW the same way he was doing with Star Trek with the Kelvin movies and basically bringing back elements both franchises felt like they were missing by the end of their original runs. But he never tried to think outside the box with either of them. Just like ‘Khan’ showing up again in the new universe it was Empire vs Rebels again as you mentioned when he could’ve taken both to very different and unique places. But it just reveled in more nostalgia and ironically now both of these franchises are now drowning in it.
As for Star Trek, you know my thoughts on most of it already so won’t add anymore except to say yeah classic Trek got beat up as much as NuTrek today. I say this all the time, nothing that is being said about the modern era wasn’t said as bad, if not worse, than the classic era. You can even find the venom for a lot of the old shows on this board if you go to most articles pre-2009.
And yes, just like people complain about characters like Burnham for being a black woman there were just as many complaints about Sisko and definitely Janeway. I don’t think Sisko got it AS bad as Janeway did at the beginning, but it was certainly there. It just shows even for Trek fans, they can still be just as narrow minded as we are still seeing today.
But it’s just funny how some people seem to act like the old shows were always loved and the new shows crucified. Just like how people act like the Star Wars prequels were always super loved vs the new era of SW today. But it’s probably just an age thing as well and oldies like us who been around most if not all of it from the beginning vs newer fans who got into these franchises in the 90s or later.
But just like how some fans see the shows TNG-ENT as all great Trek today when that always wasn’t the case are similar to SW fans who have no clue the Prequels were once shunned by most of fandom. It is funny how these things change with time and perspective.
defeating ren or the emperor was rey’s role to play and not luke or leia
The only reason they “took Discovery” into the 32nd Century was because of that very same backlash in the first place with it being a prequel that did not line up with anything that came before. Once again in look, feel, tone, none of it lined up, and they expected and told the world that this was before TOS. It didn’t make sense then and still doesn’t. If the show had been set in the 32nd Century perhaps from the get-go and removed the “Burnham is Spock’s sister that he never talked about” then the reaction would’ve been vastly different. At least in some quarters.
I think many people and fans overall have an issue with the modern shows just doing what they wanted and only going back and “trying” to abide by canon and the existing almost 60 years of established Star Trek canon. Like you said, they should’ve just thrust forward ahead of it which would’ve left the door open for them to do whatever they wanted with the characters they included.
Oh yeah I’m well aware and said so hundreds of times at this point. They were trying to appease all the haters and critics who said the show just felt too out of place in the era it was in. But they could’ve doubled down and just stayed there but I still give them a lot of credit for essentially rebooting the show altogether even if I still felt they dropped the ball in many ways once they took it to the 32nd century. But I mostly blame show runner for that.
Even though Discovery is still my least favorite show by far I have always given it credit for it trying to do something bold and different from the start. It was great it tried to take chances and really move the franchise to a different place. But I’ve always said it probably just went too far off the reservation for some and the writing just wasn’t as strong as it could’ve been. Others are free to disagree though.
It will probably be awhile before we see how people feel about the show overall now that it’s over but I actually think in the end history will be pretty kind to it as it’s been on all the former shows.
S31 has been in development since 2019 (in some for or another). But you go on with your gatekeeping … saying what is and isn’t Star Trek.
It isn’t gatekeeping. Oh, it’s Star Trek in NAME only because obviously the studio is producing it with the brand name and names, places, characters being used. But based on this trailer, it looks, feels, sounds NOTHING like Star Trek, hence the comment many have made past/present about modern shows like this and Discovery feeling nothing like Star Trek.
It isn’t gatekeeping to want something to be true to itself.
Look, I love gumbo from Lucille’s restaurant. And have enjoyed it for years. But if all of a sudden, I go there, and they change the ingredients or the recipe and it’s not as good, guess what? I won’t order it anymore. Or will question why it’s different. If the DNA, or ingredients are changed with only the name being changed, its not the same anymore and becomes a facsimile of itself. It’s not wrong to want the quality of something to be as good as you remember it, or the way it was before. And if the trailer views, and the majority of comments on this very article suggest, I’m not the only one feeling this way. This is not an attack on the individuals who like this or Discovery.
More than anything; I think it just looks terrible.
Spot on man! Spot on.
Happy New Year, everyone! Can’t wait to watch Section 31! Streaming movies could be the best format for Paramount+ to greenlight more Star Trek productions.
For the New Year, wish people are more thoughtful reviewing Star Trek productions. The negative noise that we generate online, goes against our own wishes.
If we want more Star Trek, we should be more supportive during this era of streaming. Since the 60s, the franchise has been consistent producing endless possibilities. Like Discovery in 2017, Section 31 in 2025 could open the door for more. If we are waiting for Legacy, Worf and Raffi, DS9, Prodigy, Lower Decks, this movie has to succeed in their metrics. Who would say no to a follow up with Archer and T’Pol? I would like very much to see Tucker coming back a la Spock, Hugh, or Shaxs.
Rob Kazinksy, his comments are not very positive, however….we all have survived many (that were consider) lame episodes and bad movies. Would be good to remember not the same movies or episodes are “bad” for all of us.
After all these years waiting for Section 31, I look forward to watch Yeoh. I hope the movie is well received.
I am personally concern with seven iterations of the script, different writers, and who knows how many revisions, but finally we are able to learn what happened to Phillipa after saying goodbye to Michael. I’m grateful.
For all these years waiting, glad it’s finally here this month. The new show that turned to a miniseries that that turned to a streaming movie.
Like The Mandalorian, streaming movies will be “the way.”
Yeoh is amazing. Always positive and humble. After all the waiting that she had to go through, grateful she had been patient, always fully committed to the fans. From day 1, she was consistently committed to move forward for this. Really hope we get positive reviews and a decent amount of viewership.
He shouldn’t worry. Real fans like anything labeled Star Trek.
Consume product. Product good. Continue to consume product.
You say that like it is a good thing.
There’s no such thing as a real or non-real fan. That is gatekeeping. In any case, your statement isn’t true at all, since there are avid fans who enjoy some shows and movies and not others, or who enjoy the novels but not the comics, or who enjoy the comics but not the video games, or who only enjoy the classic era, or who only like the modern ea. Those fans are no less fans than anyone else.
I think you’d agree I’m less of a fan than you because I dare to criticize a lot of the new stuff, so there is a “degree” of fandom that warrants excluding/ignorning parts of it, especially if something is new and trying something different. And that’s where we start to plot out a chart of who is and is not a real fan.
If that’s the barometer today then a whole lot of fans are less of a fan now lol.
And I have criticized quite a bit myself, including the movie obviously. There is nothing wrong with that. When people put out a product they expect people to PAY for, then that’s how it works. And yes, Star Trek fans have been questioning Star Trek since the third season of TOS and it only got worse when the spin offs showed up in the 80s and 90s.
This is not a new issue, far far from it. Maybe it’s a lot more critical today vs back then, but back then we didn’t have social media and sites like this to complain as much either.
I do not agree in the slightest, no. You’re a fan. I’m a fan. Everyone here is a fan. This is a fan board, for fans, and no one is more or less a fan than anyone else. Calling someone a real fan or not a real fan is elitist gatekeeper nonsense. Also, your premise makes no sense anyway, because I frequently criticize a lot of the new stuff.
Gotta chime in with the others. I consider myself a true fan and I been bagging on Star Trek since Enterprise started and definitely after it. I like more of the new stuff today but still don’t like everything.
But that doesn’t make me less of a fan. Fans are fans man. And if you’re paying and devoting your time to watch stuff you don’t even like, then that’s the sign of a real fan, even if a slightly deranged one haha.
And people who criticize NuTrek just want it to improve; another sign of a true fan. If you were less of a fan, you would just give up and stop watching it completely. Remember that.
I think the message was being conveyed that way because MANY fans have said “I’ll watch anything with Star Trek on it and will be ok with it”. That’s where that comes from. Some people have brand loyalty whether the product is good or bad, and simply won’t stand up and say to the ones supplying the product, “ok that sucks you need to do better”
Part of the problem is many fans just accept it knowing it could be better.
While I adore Michelle and she’s so gifted, and while I WILL watch this before I talk about the finished product, everything I have read so far, everything I have seen so far screams to me, it looks OK, nothing we haven’t seen before but it’s just not Star Trek. We saw mirror Georgio has SOME redemption but this movie, I just don’t see the need.
Section 31 exists in Star Trek canon, fine, and was retconned into Enterprise, fine, but never liked it, never wanted it, and truth, I never understood why a ‘Section 31’ show was greenlit — who’s the audience? Star Trek fans? Section 31 goes against everything we were told Star Trek stood for…. And many DS9 episodes addressed that very point.
You want a ‘dark operative/CIA” thriller? There’s a zillion out there any many are quite good.
I’ll hold off the review until I watch this for me I am anticipating saying, ‘Entertaining, Michelle was excellent, but it’s a one and done for me.”
Question, “How Much For Just The Planet?”
Lordy I remember devouring Trek books in the 80s every month they come out and that book (How Much for Just the Planet (and Enterprise the first mission) were AWFUL.
That novel is hilarious!
To be fair I read it decades ago but I just remember I groaned sadly reading much of it — maybe I just wasn’t in the mood for that humor back then. GREAT deep cut there, Torchwood68 — many won’t get the reference but it did make me smile.
Still not as fabulous as what does god need with a starship. Which i paraphrased for mass effect 3 what does the starchild need with a spacestation. the whole absurd solution to the reapers.
Yeah, and he should be.
I don’t understand the quote “It’s easy to be a saint paradise”. Of course it is, what’s wrong with that? Economic stressors and lack of emotional and societal support is what makes people act out. You build paradise so that everyone can benefit and be saintly. It’s not some burn to say people will do what they need to to survive in an unfair and harsh environment. It’s also wrong to say that someone brought up in such an environment will immediately devolve into a monster the moment things get tough.
I don’t think Sisko was trying to be negative, but just realistic.
And he’s not saying everyone is a saint in paradise obviously, since we know that’s not true either. But people do have the advantages of less struggles vs other places where they have to do things just to survive. But yeah, people can still be dicks no matter where they were born.
And of course in the real world, lots of people born in less ideal situations still end up good and upstanding people just like people born of privilege and wealth can still do awful things or be horrible people. In a lot of cases even more so once you get addicted to power and control. Environment only speaks to a portion of how people behave. Most of it will still come down to your own morals and values.
he meant about dealing with complex issues that are not a problem on earth/’paradise’.
the DMZ becoming a war zone with Fed citizens as terrorists fighting against cardassian aggression that sisko has to police while trying to keep to the peace treaty.
Ok, enough about peope hating TNG when it came out. It is SUCH a tired excuse. When TNG came out there was ever only ONE Star Trek. OF COURSE people were going to aprehensize of a new crew. The point is, after a few seasons, TNG grew into it’s own. For a lot of the fandom, the same can not be said for shows like Discovery. This movie has a lot to prove more than, “we’re new so we have an excuse for people not liking us”. Change is fine. Change for the sake of change never works, Show me even ONE good reason why Section 31 had to be so dratically changed from what it was in DS9??? when did it EVER work?
I was young when TOS came out. When TNG aired I was a UNIX programmer. None of my friends/coworkers had problems with TNG.
However, Usenet was the “social media” of the time. That’s where I first encounter trolling and TNG haters. The whole “this is not Star Trek” thing came from Roddenberry/Shatner personality cults.
I can’t believe people still prefer TOS to everything that followed. It’s so dated technically with plenty of horrible episodes. Kirk would never be captain in Starfleet, a military organization (Roddenberry denies that).
Marvel has no problem with good and bad characters, neither does Star Wars. It’s just Star Trek and Roddenberry’s Utopian Starfleet that does. When Section 31 airs I’ll compare it to other franchises, not Star Trek.
So many comments (essays) here wanting the Star Trek of old back and lamenting at what it has become, ignoring the fact that for a franchise to grow it needs to appeal to NEW fans as well as the old. It’s frankly getting quite tedious and those not even willing to give the new shows a chance with an open mind frankly IMO need to be taking a look at themselves. Star Trek changed as a franchise a long while ago and most of you refuse to see why because you’re stuck in your belief that you are correct and the old times were the best times whereas the truth of the matter is the franchise moved out of your personal comfort zone and now you’re pissy about it.
It’s alright to fall out of love with something. It’s alright to be disappointed but ragging on every new Star Trek show? What actual fan does that? Do the rest of us a favour and please go back to watching the old shows (which are still there, they haven’t been deleted or anything) and the rest of us can enjoy the new shows as well.
Agree, fans can be so… exhausting. I’m at the point where I accept some Treks are for me, some aren’t, who even cares? I’ll give it a shot because I love Michelle Yeoh (and, truth be told, used to have a bit of a crush on Rob Kazinsky when he was on Eastenders).
Are fans also ‘exhausting’ when they spend just as much time praising things like they have done for SNW, Picard season 3, LDS and PRO? So is it not OK to point out things people are simply critical about? Especially for something that has had presented promotional material that is designed for people to judge the product:?
Yeah everyone accept some Treks are for them and some are not. That’s why there are message boards, to discuss why. If people just want a circle jerk and just gush over every new Star Trek movie or show, make a Facebook page.
I just find it so weird how everyone points out when fans are negative about something, but ignores the constant praise when fans are happy about something else. There is just as much of the latter these days but yet it’s the narrative old fanboys refuse to like anything new when that is clearly not the case.
the problem is, they only want to hear your opinions when they line up with what they agree with. Meanwhile, the individuals in question will wave flags of IDIC and all of that, until a dissenting opinion or point of view is presented in front of them. It’s interesting how those of us who loathed Discovery, etc. were praising Picard Season 3. The success of that season alone proved by the numbers that, that’s the formula for Star Trek that works. So, they were on to something. But they chose to be different since, which is where the criticizing continues from.
“The problem is, they only want to hear your opinions when they line up with what they agree with.”
Exactly. It’s frustrating to me because I actually want to hear every side and have no issues with that. I love both SNW and Picard season 3 for example but I have no problem with people who don’t like either and state their reasons why. But same time it would be silly for me to say either show isn’t generally loved on this board because they are. At least acknowledge that and don’t pretend people are just bitter and negative about everything that can’t accept anything made after 2005 when lots of us spend a lot of time pointing out what we love about these shows and episodes as much as we criticize them.
But people want to keep pushing this narrative it’s just constant hate and division. It’s not. It’s really really not. They are just too focused on things they feel others may not like as much as them like Discovery or this film. But people are just giving their honest opinions and in this case to the trailer. They just don’t think it looks very good. You can certainly disagree and we obviously don’t know how the movie itself will turn out yet.
And what always seems to get missed is the people who generally like or want to like something never gets attacked for it; at least not here. No one is being called out because they are excited for the film or love MU Georgiou. But to feel personally slighted or hurt because other people don’t share the same opinion on the internet out of all places is weird in this day and age. And yet, the majority of the people who has been banned here, especially lately, are people who come off angry and defensive because others don’t like something as much as them even though no one is getting on their case FOR liking it. Just bizarre and inappropriate behavior and yet it happens again and again.
As far as Picard season 3, yeah it definitely seem to work with the masses and seems to be the most popular season out of the new stuff at least. And yes it proved fans do want to like this stuff. No matter how you personally feel about that season it’s proof people can still be swayed especially after the first two seasons which many people, me included, were pretty disappointed with.
“And yet, the majority of the people who has been banned here, especially lately, are people who come off angry and defensive because others don’t like something as much as them even though no one is getting on their case FOR liking it. Just bizarre and inappropriate behavior and yet it happens again and again.”
This sums up just how crazy some people can be online lol. When you have the former lunatic resident literally taking time out of his day by finding multiple quotes of people saying how much they think Discovery sucks and posting them just so they can argue with them some more for the 200th time is pretty creepy behavior. Or literally harassing other members who don’t even know them or care about their opinions because they have an opposing viewpoint. Or make multiple sock puppets just to keep arguing with others because they clearly don’t have anything better to do with their time. Those are the kind of people you should probably avoid in real life. And multiple people have done weird things like this, not just that guy.
People get way too obsessed and worked up over fictional entertainment no one is telling them they can’t like or enjoy…but want to argue with everyone who doesn’t feel the same way.
Yeah, some people really like a certain TV show or movie and sad when others crap all over it. We all get it and everyone has experienced it themselves, but there are real things to be angry about in life. This isn’t one of them. If you can’t just talk about something without being triggered like a normal human being, maybe it’s time to find a new hobby or a new place to talk to people.
This is literally why we need an ignore button. For the people who feel slighted and triggered over anyone who has a strong opinion against something they enjoy and for the rest of us who just want to focus on the people who come here to have a mature and open conversation discussing the show, not just to be part of an echo chamber or their opinions to feel validated.
There would be a lot less acrimony and dealing with certain personalities on boards like this but I digress.
I will say though for the most part this has been a very easy going board these days. You don’t really see too many of those issues anymore thankfully. All the bullying tactics and harassment issues no longer exists. I can’t remember the last time I had a real argument with anyone here (although I can guarantee you if I did it was probably about Discovery lol). But most people here really just want to give their opinion and move on instead of turning everything into the same tedious argument time and time again.
“All the bullying tactics and harassment issues no longer exists.”
Hear hear! It’s really a good feeling and not have to deal with that anymore. Like you, I can’t remember the last time I felt harassed or name called here? People have disagreed with me, like on this board, but always polite and civil. Just no more of the silly arguments with crazy people anymore.
It’s amazing how things can quickly change when you get rid of just 1 or 2 bad elements that make life miserable for the rest of us. The overall toxicity is thankfully gone.
But getting back on topic, I think this movie will suck hard but I want to be proven wrong. I was telling someone on another board recently I always want to love everything of course because it’s actually more fun when everyone loves something and we can gush about it together as fans. That’s exactly why I love talking about shows like Lower Decks, Prodigy and Picard season 3 because most people seem to like those too so it always feels like one big nerd fest lol. For me, discussing Picard season 3 was probably the most fun I had in ages talking Trek because most of us was on the same page and just fun to be excited week to week again.
And even the people who hated it always had their say but it was always civil, at least talking to the non-lunatics. I loved talking to people who hated it as much as I loved talking to people who loved it because it was a fun debate. I wasn’t mad at them over it. That’s how it’s supposed to work. But also the difference for me I guess, when I truly love something I’m too happy to be mad at the people who don’t love it lol. I just don’t get triggered over things like this.
Even last season of Discovery was fun to talk about for a change because I can say I mostly enjoyed it and not just roll my eyes every time Burnham starts crying or endure another tedious boring episode.
So I am hoping to get that same feeling again, but I have serious doubts. And you know how much I hate Adolf but hopefully even she will be more tolerant for me.
Meant to also include SNW, which I also love talking about. But the 24th/25th century shows excite me more in general since that’s the era I truly love and a lot more of the characters. But SNW is usually a fun time to geek out too since most seem to at least like it.
Yeah I agree, it’s actually much more fun when people loves something and very positive about it. Picard season 3 is a great example because of course there was the very nostalgic pull the season had with the entire TNG cast back and the story was very compelling in itself that really kept people guessing. And almost every episode we got a new legacy character returning so it was fun to see who would pop up next.
Lots of people were still disappointed in the finale while others like me loved it. But for the most part, it was very civil. Besides a few posters who just wanted to argue with everyone because they didn’t agree with other people’s opinions, most of us had a great time talking about it; even when we had issues with it ourselves.
And I enjoyed Discovery season 5 too and was a bit disappointed there wasn’t the same level of engagement like with Picard. I obviously didn’t expect it anything close to that level, but I thought being the last season it would be way more people talking about it than there was. But same time, yeah, it was probably the most civil and easy going season in terms of people discussing the show so maybe that was a good thing lol. But the people who liked it said so and the people who hated it also said so, but there wasn’t a lot of infighting about it between the two like the previous seasons. I guess most people were just apathetic about it by then. And yes it helped a certain someone was banned by that time too.
But this is just more proof some people only see what they want. Or they are so bitter others don’t like something as much as them, they ignore all the positives people actually do say about these shows today. Yes, I think at the beginning of Discovery and then Picard, it was much more hostile and divisive towards them for a lot of reasons. But today, things are much more neutral, especially when discussing LDS, PRO and SNW. And of course those shows have their critics too but not on the level PIC and DIS originally did IMO. There will always be a contingent of old fans who will hate everything past 2005 no matter what, but they are not in the majority either and certainly not on this board.
But then there are people who want to constantly feel slighted and just attack people who are negative against the shows they like. And they come off just as negative and bitter like they accuse others of being. A great example was one guy here in the first few seasons of Discovery who I kid you not just constantly railed on anyone and everyone who had issues with Discovery and that included me since I was far from a fan lol.
And I’m not saying he couldn’t challenge people on their opinions of course, but he wasn’t actually doing that. He wasn’t debating people’s issues with the show, it was just ‘if you don’t like it, then don’t watch it’ mantra over and over again. He wasn’t engaging with anyone, he was basically yelling at them and this went on for years.
And what really frustrated me about people like this is he never spent any time just discussing the show himself, saying why he liked it, his favorite episodes or characters, etc. He was just fighting with other people instead of giving his own thoughts. And I called him out quite a bit because the guy was always on my case too. But what I always pointed out time and time again was that he only wanted to engage with me when I said something negative. I said just as many positive things about the show about episodes I liked but never a single post where we both agreed and could talk positively about it. Instead he would just chastise me that I hated the show (which I didn’t) but then ignored anytime I said anything good about it.
Those are the people I find are the worst. If you just come on a message board to complain about the complainers, then you’re not adding to the conversation either. They are just as bad as the people who come just to down everything. Fortunately most don’t usually last very long. He finally left after the second season of the show because I guess he just got too frustrated.
And I’m hoping more people will like this movie and be more positive about it in the end.
All good points! 👍
And there are just too many people out there who constantly want to feel offended when others don’t like a show or movie as much as them. It just comes down to insecurity issues or just not capable of handling differences of opinions.
And it’s always ironic a lot of these people who want to whine other people are being too negative over things they like have no problem being just as negative over the things they think suck as well. A lot of these people aren’t just gushers of all things Trek or never critical of the franchise, they hate a lot of things as the rest of us but usually only want to censor the negative talk over things they happen to love.
Those are the people I usually throw on ignore and never look back man.
Thankfully their isn’t a lot of people like that here anymore because as you stated most of them got banned. And funny enough it’s nevet the people who put down the shows, but the people attacking others for putting it down.
I been on so many boards where I have been brutally honest how much I hate something and yet to this day I have NEVER been told by a moderator to clamp down on my opinions or ever been called out for trolling for over 20 years now. Not a warning anywhere, including here.
But ironically I have had other members try to censor me and accused me of trolling and tried to shut me up including on this very board as you know; only for THEM to be called out by the moderators for trolling or fighting with people and ultimately getting banned over it.
But they tried to have the nerve to say I’m the one causing all the ruckus on the board even though they were the ones derailing every thread with their nonsense, not me. Even to the point they thought they were providing a public service of some kind by making childish call outs because people kept saying a bad show was bad. And those people got bamned but the rest of us who criticized this stuff is still here.
You can not make this up! 🤣
Yep. I also think the problem is people seem very insecure over TV shows and movies. If you feel a show or movie you like is being unfairly criticized, then push back and say why you disagree. But to suggest everyone are just haters because they don’t like what you like are people who simply can’t handle people having a different view.
I will never get it bro. I am definitely harsh and say my peace when I really hate something. I have ruffled a lot of feathers over the years. Same time, I accept it’s completely fair game when someone is just as harsh about something I like. I don’t get angry or yell at them for saying it because we are all adults and passionate Star Trek fans. That’s how it works and yet people get offended over the smallest things. And then when you tell them, OK, just scroll past or better yet put me on ignore (I know you can’t do that here though) if they feel that offended, but they refuse to do it lol. They act outraged but they are so obsessed with some random stranger’s thoughts on a tiny message board, they rather just argue over it fifty times instead of just moving on with life. Seriously, I don’t care what you think about my opinion or you’re mad because I think something you like sucks. I will happily give you the same courtesy but it’s time to move on now.
We’re not here to get anyone’s approval, seriously. If you don’t like people being honest about their thoughts just because they are not yours, then find a place that does that. I can guarantee you I won’t be on it.
For the record, I defend the new shows all the freaking time and just wrote an ‘essay’ looking at the audience ratings on IMDB and concluded for all the shouting how much people hate them here, they are actually rated pretty well for being a new entity and against decades of nostalgia of the classic shows.
All that said, I simply think this movie looks horrible and for many reasons that people have cited here and other places online. Maybe the movie itself will prove to be a better experience. But this article we’re all talking about only exists because one of the actors on it and clearly a big Star Trek fan himself has all but said he thinks the movie is not Trek-y enough and will get slammed for it. That’s what HE is saying and people are responding to it. Maybe he will be proven wrong but that will alarm anyone who is already skeptical of it and there was already many other reasons to be skeptical.
And no offense, but I wish people stopped generalizing everything. You saying Trek fans just rag on anything new is not remotely true. Shows like SNW, PRO and LDS gets constant love fests here all the time. Did you not read any of the posts for the last two episodes of LDS? Go any place and I will guarantee you it’s mostly positive. And there are constant fangasms every time a legacy character shows up on SNW, LDS or PIC. In fact some of these shows now has some of the highest rated seasons in the franchise, namely season 3 of Picard and season 2 of Prodigy. With the exception of Discovery, it has mostly been a love fest here the last few years. And more people even liked the last season of Discovery compared to the previous few and I include myself in that.
You want people to be less negative, fine, but do me a favor and stop acting like that’s all people do here when that is far from the case.
People think THIS movie may suck. And it very well could. That doesn’t mean they have written off the entire franchise either.
There’s nothing wrong with growth. But in this case the franchise has in recent years taken a nosedive in quality. If “progress” means constantly deconstructing, breaking down, revamping/redoing, then that’s not growth.
That’s right, ignore all the reasons why people are hating this movie so far. Just say it’s our fault that we don’t want anything new even though most of us has fallen in love with many of the new shows.
But according to you we don’t want or accept new things because we refuse to shove everything in our mouths and says it’s good even when we hate the taste. I think LDS is amazing and wished more people loved it too. Should I assume others who hates it only do because they can’t accept something new and different? Or maybe it’s just not for them and that’s OK too.
Why is it so hard to just agree to disagree instead of swiping at fans because they dare to not like what you do? And if you don’t like something, does that mean you can’t let go of the past either who needs to look in a mirror or because you think it just sucks? I have a feeling you would say the latter. If so, stop painting the rest of us with the same brush.
Not every fan is going to love everything but should always respect people who do like something. If no one is getting on your case for liking something, stop judging others just because they don’t.
Fanbases suck and are stuck in the past, news at eleven.
Correct. Old = bad, new = good.
Quality is good … the rest is largely inconsequential.
While each installment is unique, every entry since Enterprise has been a very very different kind of Star Trek. A lot of people don’t like that and to a large extent I’m one of them. But, there are massive amounts of people that DO and the success of everything since the 2009 movie has relied on that. Despite curmudgens like me the majority of people seem to have no issue having a different kind of Trek. That’s all to say, if your movie comes out and people hate it it’s probably just because it was very good.
Nah, just look at the merchandise. There’s bugger all for the new shows. Lego have just announced their first ever Star Trek set. What is it? The Enterprise D.
The DSC line ended Eaglemoss because no one bought those ships.
Ask an random person on the street about Star Trek and they’ll know Kirk, Spock and Picard. They’ll know about the transporter.and the phrase beam me up Scotty.
Star Trek is in terminal decline IMHO. The ST09 movie was great, it sparked Star Trek back to life and was a huge hit, especially I terms of blu ray sales. But nothing since STID has had any cultural impact at all.
Most normals haven’t even heard of Discovery or Section 31
It’s being reported today that Oscar-winning actress, Michelle Yeoh, was paid $12M for the upcoming film, Star Trek: Section 31. The rumored total budget for the film is $80M-150M
Adjusted for inflation, an episode of Berman era Star Trek (TNG, DS9 and VOY episode estimates used) cost between 3.5 and 6 million, depending on the exact figure used. Using theses figures, and the rumoured budget, would suggest we could have anywhere between 13 and 42 episodes of live-action Star Trek for what is being spent on this streaming movie, one which isn’t looking fantastic so far. I’d much rather have a season or two of a more regular Star Trek than this, if given a choice.
Caretaker had a budget of 23-24 million just for a pilot.
True, but that was a two-part episode designed to launch a seven year, 172 episode series, as well as Paramount’s new UPN network. That budget also included the entire Voyager set, which was reused for the next seven years. There also had to be extensive reshoots on two occasions, the first of which was Geneviève Bujold leaving the production and being replaced by Kate Mulgrew, and the second was when a Paramount exec wanted Kate Mulgrew’s hair style changed. All of this would have added to the cost of the pilot.
Yeah Caretaker was crazy high, especially for that time, but I don’t think it was meant to be that high but just went over budget. And a big part of it did have to do when Bujold left and basically had to not only find a new Janeway (and who fortunately turned out ten times better) but as you stated reshoot all her scenes. That turnover literally cost millions alone.
But for a VERY long time, Caretaker was the highest budget for a TV pilot ever just like TMP was the highest budget for a movie at its time. In fact I been reading up on the show LOST recently and at the time, ABC was going crazy over the pilot’s budget because it was their largest budget for a TV show ever and that was only around $10-14 million and nearly a decade after Voyager. And that was ABC.
It does prove while Star Trek don’t always get the biggest budgets, a lot of times they do and none of the spin off pilots ever got less than the highest in the industry standard at the time and in Voyager’s case, much higher.
But in the end, it was worth it because Caretaker was the highest viewed Star Trek pilot at the time too with around 21 million viewers. None of the other pilots got anywhere close to that. Actually, I don’t know if another show has beat it to this day; especially since it’s hard to even know how well any of the streaming shows have done.
meanwhile a Japanese foreign film “Godzilla Minus One ” was filmed on a small budget and won an Oscar (and is VERY good btw).
I was shocked to find out it only cost somewhere between 10 to 15 million dollars for Godzilla Minus One. It looks like any other big budget film, and is genuinely excellent.
helped that it had no big stars and most of the budget was for FX
“The Trek that people want, the Trek that we all want, is just 1,000 more episodes of TNG.” This guy knows how things are!
Which is really sad and not something to be celebrated.
I understand his concern – he appears to be a big fan of Trek, and now he finally gets to be in it at a time when a portion of the fanbase reacts badly that anything that doesn’t fit their paradigm. Section 31 is likely not going to fit their paradigm. Even for some of the commenters on this article, Section 31 is already dead on arrival, and it hasn’t even arrived yet. Personally, I think I’ll watch it and form my opinion then.
It is a shame in many ways. I’ve seen Robert Kazinsky in a couple of things, and he’s a damn good actor. It’s genuinely nice to have fans working on Star Trek. While I’m not optimistic about the film, based on the trailer, I will watch it, and give it a fair shot.
Worse case scenario, even if it’s as bad as many fear, hopefully he’ll be able to pop up again in the franchise at a later date, playing a different character.
I will as well. Not big on prejudging anything.
12M just for Michelle Yeoh! I mean, you could get Tom Cruise for that.
Like the Critical Drinker said, “she laughed all the way to the bank on that one!”
How do you know she got 12m? (which would equal Pine and Hemsworths 6m each demand for ST4 in 2018 )
Google it and there’s multiple sources.
The only place I see that is a FB Trek group post, which is not a legitimate source.
Many YT channels have mentioned it as well (Nerdrotic, Critical Drinker, …). Apparently the 12M was for the original 10 episodes of the projected series. When they decided to do a movie instead, they still had to pay the 12M.
I have no idea if those YT channels are considered legitimate. They are usually well connected.
Fair point, I should have said ‘rumoured’. Apologies.
You couldn’t get him for that little even if Stanley Kubrick reanimated and started directing again.
S31 comes out two weeks from Friday, yet I haven’t seen much promotion for it.
The two official Star Trek Instagram accounts are still posting about Lower Decks (not complaining about that at all, love LDs and maybe it’s a sign that it’s getting more engagement).
It’s just odd. They’re releasing a movie from a globally-recognized IP with decades of history, starring an Oscar winner and international icon who ALSO has a significant role in a major blockbuster currently in theaters.
But aside from the SFX article…crickets.
I have been seeing a lot of commercials for it while watching the Star Trek channels on Pluto TV.
A lot of mass market outlets used for trek in the past don’t even exist anymore. Is tv guide still a thing? And paramount always seemed to limit coop with small fry outfits, at least in my own experience. I red tat the situation got so bad a number of years back that cinefex wound up running their article on m:I 4 or 5 with no pictures at all, which is almost like creating a text only fotonovel for a vfx mag to have to do.
A few years ago there’d be a S31 starlog cover issue (and starlog movie special), DC comic adaptation, cinescape, cinefex, cinefantastique, official Trek fan club mag (ok maybe about 20y ago lol).. Now just SFX and a brief tweet from a paramount star trek site
I can tell you right now they are setting up a sequel. A whopper of an ending that will make you look twice (screeners recently went out to early reviewers)
Sounds exciting!
Most importantly is the whole film any good?
Do we find out that Bruce Willis— I mean space hitler — was dead the whole time?
Character deserves the fate of evil crewman in Ellison’s version of CITY, caught in a time loop of burning to death inside a star for all eternity … come to think of it, same notion might apply to certain current nefarious heads of state too.