Shatner Autobiography Excerpt: On New Star Trek Movie [UPDATED] May 19, 2008
by John Tenuto , Filed under: Books, Shatner, Star Trek (2009 film) , trackback
William Shatner’s new autobiography, "Up Till Now,” is in book stores now. The book covers Shatner’s entire life from childhood, through the Trek years to today. And in a brief mention, it has what may be the last word on the biggest Shatner discussion subject of the last year: will Shatner be in the new Star Trek movie?
Excerpt below.
From the last pages of “Up Till Now” (by William Shatner and David Fisher)
———————
I now wonder if I am working too much. Perhaps I should experience other things? But I am having such a good time it is difficult to say no to anything. In fact, my daughter Lizbeth and her husband play a game: Can they get through an ordinary day without hearing my name mentioned or hearing my voice on the radio or television. Mostly they lose.
Ironically, the one part I might have enjoyed playing I wasn’t even offered. The producers of the movie Star Trek XI - which apparently focuses on the early life of our characters - did not ask me to appear in that film. Spock lives in that film, but I guess that because Kirk had been killed they feel they couldn’t find a place for him. Many people wondered if I was upset or angry not to be offered a role. I wasn’t; I was sad, though, and I was slightly mystified. It just seems like a poor business decision not to bring back Jim Kirk one last time.
I recognize that I’m getting older. And I do think about my own mortality. And what I now know is that there are so many questions to which I am never going to know the answer. We are born into mystery and we leave in mystery. We don’t know what transpired before and we don’t know what’s coming ahead. We don’t know what life is. We don’t even know the truth behind the assassination of JFK. Is there God? What is time? There’s everything we don’t know.
———————
Excerpts courtesy of Thomas Dunne Books
TrekMovie.com will have a full review of "Up Till Now" later in the week.
UPDATE: Video
Shat was on Reel Talk and spoke on this issue
Up Till Now is available now at Amazon
| Up Till Now (Hardcover)
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Up Till Now (Audio)
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Comments»
There’s still a small part of me that believes Shatner is still in the movie and this all one big ruse.
I”m just going to be the first to say this will be a great read
I’ve read Star Trek Memories and Star Trek Movie Memories.. quite informative and entertaining.. I expect the same from this one.. we all know his other non fiction stories are written by other ghost writers so how much did he actually write we will never know.. be sure it will be from Shatner’s own point of view..
Shat delivers the truth as usual
Interesting ruminations on life and JFK assassination, etc
Boy, the producers are blowing it by not casting him
I have the audio download of this book…and it is quite enjoyable and educational. Shat has lived quite a life…I hope i get to shake the man’s hand one day!
The movie would be mega huge if Shat was in.
Shatner. You just can’t stay mad at the guy.
As one ages, one becomes more philosophical. I hope that in a few years, he will see his way clear to putting all this “feud” business behind him. Maybe it is already and it’s just that the fans are the last to know. If so, it could only be for the publicity.
He’s a sly one, the Shatmeister.
I get where Shatner is coming from about his feelings on not being in the movie, but I really think that it’s time to pass these characters on to a new generation. If Sean Connery, Roger Moore, Timothy Dalton and Pierce Brosnan and all gone on and on like this for over a year, we’d never hear the end of it! The same goes forMichael Keaton, Val Kilmer and George Clooney. Sometimes, actors are replaced, a lot of times because they were getting older.
Shatner passed the torch on to Picard and Co. in ‘Generations’ when Kirk was killed off. Was it a bad death? I think so. Was it a bad decision? Probably, but it still happened. This is science fiction, yes, but how can you say this is a poor business decision? How can you base the future of the franchise off of someone who is nearly eighty? Shatner could have been in this entire film, making it “The Search for Kirk” so he could be in further adventures. And then Shatner could have died tomorrow. Grim, yes, but still. The fact remains that he is getting old and Star Trek needs to be revitalized at it’s core, and that core is Kirk, Spock and McCoy. The original Kirk was killed and DeForrest Kelly has passed away. That leaves Spock, and he is in this movie. He will pass the torch into the hands of Chris Pine, Zachary Quinto and Karl Urban, and I believe Star Trek will continue to endure through the decades because of it.
As great as it would be to see Shatner don the uniform and go where no man has gone before one last time, he has gotten old. He said he has thought about his own mortality, and I would hope that in those thoughts he has come to the conclusion that Star Trek needs fresh blood, not someone who could unfortunately pass at any time now. As unfortunate as it is to say it, I have come to that conclusion, the powers that be have come to that conclusion, a lot of other people have come to that conclusion and I think a lot more people will come to that conclusion.
Given that I’m on the road so much, I may just break down and buy the audio book to pass the time. Even if The Shat’s POV can sometimes be counter to the accepted ‘truth’, he’s still one helluva good entertainer.
9
I may get the book too but I’m tellin’ ya…the audio read is priceless!
I’ve added to my list of Shatner-isms from it:
“somber”
“debacle”
“buffet”
“Wrath”
and now that I’m almost through it…
“human genome”
Priceless.
It’s worth every penny. Aside from me lightheartedly poking fun…no not really…I’m celebrating Shatner speak really. But aside from that it’s very entertaining and there are some very moving moments read by the man himself. Quite something to listen to as I’m preparing myself on the way to school.
Again priceless. I feel like I know the man himself better and like him all the more for it.
Get it.
So, Shatner’s curious about the Kennedy assassination? Over the past 35 years I’ve invested more than 15,000 hours in research concerning the murder of JFK.
Anthony is welcome to give the Shat my private e-mail address if he’d like to get an overview of the basics!
11,
That’s amazing. I don’t know much about the event itself. I have my own personal opinions about that, but… that’s another story for another time for another internet forum.
Sadly, Morn, I do not believe that the Shatz is in XI. I believe that at this juncture, the most we can do is stop and wait, like Qui Gon Jin before he was viciously mauled by Darth Maul. We have to wait behind the energy forcefield of time before we can rampage into the theaters to watch this beloved movie.
Shat or no, it will be good.
AS LONG AS IT DOESN’T HAVE JAR JAR!!!
I don’t think there is a more gentle soul walking this earth today than The Shat.
I heard Quinto say once in an interview that there could be another Star Trek after this one. Perhaps then they could find a way to bring back kirk.
Moogie#13- Gentle? You mean the same guy that killed a poor bear out in the wilderness just for the heck of it? I am not a Shatner hater, but that is not a word I would use to describe him. Nimoy - gentle: yes. Shatner - gentle: no.
14, I should hope that there would be a sequel after this next movie, if the box office gods are so willing. And another one — the third in this rumored three-movie deal.
And after that, who knows? After all, the Bond franchise has had far more movies than thus far for Trek.
Harry- I know you have written real estate books, but have you written a book on the JFK subject? With that much time and research invested, you certainly should.
I thought the Shat answered some of these ultimate questions in Trek V…a flawed film, but a film with heart.
—————————————–
Harry Ballz-if you write a book on JFK, I’ll buy it!!
I love this book. It’s meandering, hilarious, sweet and heartfelt. I was laughing hysterically for eight pages and then I read, “Then, in 1973…” I was all like, “What?! We’re only at 1973?!” What a great guy.
I would love to be seated next to him on a long flight. I would say, “Tell me a story, Bill.”
I just started reading the book. Great so far.
Denise-I did write a screenplay entitled The Grassy Knoll….here’s the storyline:
THE GRASSY KNOLL is a “what if” science fiction thriller about a man who, as a boy, personally witnessed John F. Kennedy’s assassination in Dallas that fateful day in 1963. Now a renegade scientist living in his post-apocalyptic world of the 21st century, he is convinced Kennedy’s death was the beginning of a “domino effect” that led to World War III and 240 million dead by the year 2012. He is determined to change history by sending someone back in time to prevent the assassination of John F. Kennedy before it happens.
As he pursues this objective, the scientist is being hunted down by a man within the government who has his own personal agenda for not wanting the timeline altered. Through circumstance, due to his adversary’s intervention, the scientist is forced to send his only granddaughter back in time to complete the mission. He transports her from 2017 to 1963 where, in a race against time, she must fight alone against the organized forces who would see John F. Kennedy dead.
This story could be described as a cross between Oliver Stone’s “J.F.K.” and James Cameron’s “Terminator 2″ with an influence of John Frankenheimer’s “The Manchurian Candidate”.
Years ago I registered the script with the WGA and Library Of Congress. If anyone is interested please let me know.
Harry (21) what do you think of the E. Howard Hunt deathbed tape where he says he was one of the 3 tramps and was a gunman? I believe he also claimed that LBJ was involved….
I love the idea for your screenplay. I also think that Kennedy’s death was the beginning of a terrible decline….
#22
OTG, thanks for your feedback on the script!
The answer to your question in the first paragraph is also contained within your first paragraph…..it’s scary as to how much L.B.J. was involved.
1. MORN SPEAKS - May 19, 2008
There’s still a small part of me that believes Shatner is still in the movie and this all one big ruse.
I cant agree more, though It will only let us down…..
I guess if you want to continue to believe conspiracy theories, go right ahead. I am satisfied that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone nut job that killed him.
The final nail for me was the doc on History channel about Oswald. Well written and very well documented and as our favorite Vulcan would say “logical”.
Conspiracies of this magnitude are just far too complex and would’ve fallen apart at least 40 years ago.
#25
There are plenty of superbly documented books about the Kennedy assassination that prove you wrong……you might want to read a dozen of them!
a multitude of books saying there was was more then one guman is SPECULATION not PROOF
#19–If I saw next to Mr. Shatner on a plane, I’d find a new seat. I’d be so star struck that I’d start seeing creatures on the wing of the plane!
But that would be AFTER I look deep into his eyes and see if they are crazy hazel like mine (They change from green to blue to grey depending on what I wear!), or if they are just brown-green. I’ve always wanted to see those orbs live. TV and films just distort the color.
And #10–I wholeheartedly agree. I LOVED my audio book read by Bill (Don’t remember which one.). Actually. he doesn’t just read it. He acts it out–passionately! I plugged in his book while I was recovering from pneumonia. I had started to nod off (from the drugs,not from the book!) and ended up jumping out of my skin when he started shouting dialogue. Wowsa!
I feel this should really put the ‘is he or isn’t he’ business to rest. I don’t believe William Shatner would write that last excerpt unless he was really, truly not in the movie. I don’t think he would alter the facts of his autobiography to throw us off the trail somehow, though I suppose it isn’t 100% impossible.
Question: Are there any old, interesting photographs in the new Shatner bio? Like in the very first bio? *inquiring mind wants to know*
(P.S: I’m a little bit addicted to THE MAN, but when I hear about the new movie once more, I’m going to throw out my collection ;)
#29
Well, it’s called “Up Till Now”, isn’t it? There may be a sequel… ;-)
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Anyway, there’s no denying that Bill’s a great storyteller. I highly enjoyed the excerpts I’ve read so far.
Here’s still hoping that he may show up in XI. But if he doesn’t, it won’t minimize the legacy one bit - Shatner and Kirk will be forever tied together as a cultural phenomenon and an iconic unity.
For god’s sake! How many times have we heard from EVERYBODY that Shatner is not in this film. It’s not a ruse. It is just as simple as Kirk is dead and putting him in the movie would be insane.
It is a bad decision not to include him into the movie. Shatner and Nimoy together, come on that would be great, that would be marketing, that would bring the people to the cinemas.
And I still do not believe that it is a story issue not to include him. This is science fiction. If they wanted to find a way to include him, they would have found it.
Just think about the TNG episode Yesterdays Enterprise. Tasha Yar was suddenly there, although she was dead because of a rift in the space-time-continuum and some changes in the timeline.
This would also be possible with old Kirk.
I imagine old Kirk suddenly being there and Spock realizing that someone must have altered the timeline. They travel to some kind of time-space-rift together on the warship Enterprise-F when they are attacked by Romulans. The captain of the Enterprise-F dies in the battle and Kirk assumes command of the ship. He tells Spock to take a shuttle to go through the rift alone as he fights off the Romulans. Spock doesn’t want to lose his friend a second time, but Kirk tells him: “Then see to it that you don’t…” As Spock enters the rift, he sees the Enterprise explode. When he returns to his timeline, an alive Kirk is greeting him (as Spock changed something in the past for his friend to be alive in the future).
Bill Shatner States that the producers of the new movie did not ask him to appear in their new movie.I must admit that I am quite curious as to why J.J,Abrams had a meeting with him, presumably about his movie.Abrams comments about not wanting to appeal to fanboys and Shatners apparent lack of desire to simply have a cameo appearance sounds somewhat like the irrisistable force and the immovable object. However Shatners recent comments appear to suggest that he would settle for a smaller role.Of course the film in now shot and is in post production so what is done is done,but isn’t science fiction about possibilities! One last appearance of old Jim Kirk is surely not beyond those possibilities!
It would have been fun to see Shat in the film simply because of the fact that none of the two may not be around for a sequel. It could have been their last time together as Kirk and Spock in a Star Trek film. I’m almost certain this was the very last chance.
Given this, the last film with both of them will instead be ST6 and I guess there’s nothing wrong with that but that was 17 years ago. It would have been fun to see them together in their current age.
True to the Shat really, and it mystifies me why he’s not been brought back to be in this film - fan boy decision or not, it is a money maker having the original Kirk actor passing the torch to the new. It’s hardly difficult to bring Kirk back if your doing a time travel story anyway. big mistake i feel and one that could cost this movie greatly.
Lets hope the story is decent enough and as epic as everyone seems to be saying. I do feel they are cocking the marketing up, i mean i love Trek, I’m looking forward to this movie but i’ve kinda forgotten about it now, just hope my interest in it isn’t dented when they do start advertising it in a bigger way.
Yo some guy on Youtube claims to be making a Star Trek fan series set in the tos time but dark like DS9. BLASPHEMY!
Sorry Im an idiot the link is in my name.
also, all credit to Orci and Kurtzman but Star Trek really does need a Science Fiction writer writing the stories again - yeah sure i think Orci and Kurtzman will do a bang up job but they are action adventure writers and whilst that is a big part of Trek, Science Fiction is as well and i feel their missing a lot of the Sci-fi in these types of movie’s because they don’t employ any real Science Fiction writers - i think thats what made TOS great.
There is a very simple way to put Shatner into the movie:
At the end of the movie, Spock dies nobly. His spirit meets up with Captain Kirk’s (Shatner) and they walk off into the Galactic sunset, not a dry eye in the house.
Hey, it worked in “Return on the Jedi.”
If the movie would be better with him in it, JJ would put him in it. If the movie will be worse by his presence, JJ would not include him. So I’m not going to demand JJ force him into the plot.
There is copious bogus reasons listed while Shatner is not in the movie.
Mistake not to capitilze on his and Nimoys viability to star in it.
Once the new movie is premiered, the sequel is inevitably penned without the original Kirk. Heck why do you take away from what you tried to do by recasting the original cast. You cannot do yet another time piece as it where in the sequel to explain why Shatner’s Kirk is in it. The producers will run with the new cast and forget Shatner.
Again, I say MISTAKE for the old Trekkers out there who supported paramount and Star trek for over 40 years. They just threw us out to pasture.
Mistake not to capitilze on his and Nimoys viability to star in it.
This movie and era of the franchise is not about Shatner, Nimoy, and Kelly’s characters. The reins are now passed to Pine, Quinto, and Urban. Let it go. If you put Shatner and Nimoy in it, you take away from Pine and Quinto who are now the new actors for the characters. Shatner’s Kirk is dead and has been for 14 years. Can we please let it go?
Once the public has “bonded” with the new incarnations of Kirk-Spock and McCoy these arguments will end. Shatner was really lucky to have so much screen time as Kirk and he will be loved forever for it. At his current age-weight etc… I don’t really know how they could have squeezed him in without it being seen as really “hokey”
Let him live forever in his prime on the silver screen
I hate to throw cold water on you #6 et al (and Shat as well) but Big Bill has never been a top draw at the motion picture box office. Of his films, only four have crossed the magic $100 million mark: STIV, Miss Congeniality, Dodgeball and Over the Hedge (and he was a supporting player in the last three and only a voice in the latter). And taking into account his appearances in box office duds like Osmosis Jones and Loaded Weapon 1, it is tough to make the case that JJ and company are making a bad business decision.
Bottom line–he cashed his Generations paycheck and now he has to live with that decision. I am way up on the list of people who wish he had been in this movie because he is so central to why Star Trek became what it is. But I understand why he is not and accept that.
You’re dead, Jim.
#45 ” hate to throw cold water on you #6 et al (and Shat as well) but Big Bill has never been a top draw at the motion picture box office. Of his films, only four have crossed the magic $100 million mark: STIV, Miss Congeniality, Dodgeball and Over the Hedge ”
You can’t put run-of-the-mill Hollywood movies like Loaded Weapon 1 and Star Trek movies in the same bag. This would be William Shatner as the “Jim Kirk” that pop culture, in general, is familiar with, in a HUGE-epic “Star Trek” movie. It’s not hard to do the math. His presence could only help the film, it could never hurt it.
Let’s take a step back for a minute and think about this.
To those who believe sci-fi writers need to be writing Star Trek - Trek has always been an action-adventure series within a sci-fi framework. The producers and writers of the original series never relied on technobabble or deus ex machina (well, not often, anyway) to wrap up a story. (And before you go citing “The Doomsday Machine” or “The Enemy Within”, let’s remember that the transporter difficulties were set up well in advance - in fact, the transporter was arguably the central character of TEW.) The writers need to be people who have a good grasp of exciting action, tense drama, humor, and tragedy, but who can also make a 23rd century starship sound believable without resorting to a physics course.
To those who believe Shatner should be/is in the movie: I would like to quote the Shat-man myself - “Get a life!” He’s a 78-year-old actor, nothing more, nothing less. Because he was originally cast as Kirk in 1965, and because he poured so much of himself into the role, does not mean that the role is his for all eternity. Want more Shat/Kirk? Watch TOS. He’s not in the new movie. Move on.
To those who believe Star Trek will be irrevocably harmed by this new movie: The concept of Trek is timeless (Roddenberry even referred to the original concept as “Wagon Train to the stars”, referring to an old 1950s-era TV show), and the beliefs presented within that framework are just as timeless. Humanity has a future - we should all work to see that it comes to pass. Star Trek has a future - regardless of who produces it, stars in it, directs it, or watches it, Trek will always be around. The Enterprise lives, and the human adventure continues.
…if we can keep from killing each other over a silly movie.
#47 “The concept of Trek is timeless (Roddenberry even referred to the original concept as “Wagon Train to the stars”, referring to an old 1950s-era TV show), and the beliefs presented within that framework are just as timeless. ”
..well, I would call it exactly timeless. Witness the failure of Nemesis and Enterprise to draw interest.
And yet, witness the incredible buzz and interest surrounding JJ’s return to TOS. Hopefully this new movie, under this new direction, WILL get back to the basics that made TOS the respected classic it is, and get that Wagon Train back on the trail.
OH NO! The Shattites have come out of the woodwork again. Please, no more. He’s not in it. He’s ok with that. It’s time to move on. Even Shatner would agree that the one constant in life is change.
CE
Looking forward to reading this book, I really enjoyed Star Trek Memories and Star Trek Movie Memories. I’m personally not to upset that Shatner isn’t in this movie, I respect his work and will treasure my TOS episodes forever but his time has passed. Lonard Nimoy has given this movie his seal of approval and that’s good enough for me. Can’t wait!
Oh and Harry, have you read Reclaiming History by Vincent Bugliosi? Makes a pretty compelling case, IMO, for Oswald being the lone gunman.
#48 ..well, I would call it exactly timeless. Witness the failure of Nemesis and Enterprise to draw interest.
The concepts are timeless, but that doesn’t mean the execution and presentation of those concepts hasn’t been horribly mangled a few times.
#43
Shatner’s Kirk is dead and has been for 14 years. Can we please let it go?
OMG, after all those years he keeps haunting us…declared dead, yet forcing us to talk about him - what a powerful mind, what an impact…I’m afraid he won’t let US go…:)
Shatner’s an interesting cat. I’ve yet to feel that I have a bead on him. I’ve enjoyed his recent work more than I ever thought I could enjoy anything with Shatner in it, and I am a die-hard Trekkie!
I think it’s sad that there’s such a feud with some of the old cast mates. I guess that whole peaceable utopia was really just poppycock after all.
I don’t want Shatner in the new movie, though. It’s not because of any problems with HIM, it’s just that he died. And I may be crazy, but I’d hate to think I wasted my time reading those “Return” books. :-D
Thanks, Bill. Bring up JFK a few graphs before the end of a book.
Once again: Love Bill. Love Star Trek. Need to see a new beginning if this franchise is going to succeed. I still have reservations about the parts of the movie which appear to be backwards-leaning. Can’t honestly say I care about Kirk and Spock’s childhood or academy days. I just want them out there exploring the universe and bedding green babes.
It was an incredible poor business decision. Given that this movie involves time travel and Spock going around trying to save Kirk’s life, it doesn’t seem that impossible to bring the character back. In fact, it seems like they went out of their way NOT to bring him back. They blew it.
#55: Oh ye of little faith! Just because they’re hopping galaxies and timelines doesn’t mean they blew anything… You haven’t even seen the movie yet! I don’t think they went out of their way to exclude him, I think they knew the story they wanted to tell, and what probably happened was, Shatner would deviate from that story, therefore making the overall picture sloppy and undercooked.
And who is to say Shatner can’t pop up in a sequel? Yelchin says he’s been signed for more. Cool the jets, baby! Shatner is -not- the be-all, end-all for Star Trek. They have Nimoy, and I’d say that’s quite a lot of cool.
Nothing is blown… yet.
Indeed… Star Trek XII could find Shatner involved in some way. After all, one seems to stay partly in the Nexus forever… the true Kirk still lives in the Nexus: an echo only died on Veridian III. Perhaps Kirk finds a way out and has to disguise himself in the past… as Harcourt Fenton Mudd?
I think the poor business decision lies with Shatner himself. It was stupid to go along with his character’s death. And now that can be measured in the very real and tangible loss of income from not appearing as Kirk any more. Well, maybe at least in this film.
Anyway, cutting oneself off from a potential source of income could only be described as a bad business decision.
Leaving Bill out of STXI IS a poor business decision….for Bill Shatner!
Making this something new and touting it as “Star Trek as you’ve never seen it before” is a wise decision, given that the objective is to bring in a significant amount of “crossover” moviegoers. They have already included Nimoy (who as Bill pointed out, has a character that is still alive when we last see him). If they include Shatner as well, it seems to me that the average moviegoer will see this as more of the same.
Beyond that, there is the obstacle of a dead Kirk. Why would they choose to go down that road unless resurrecting him would truly benefit the story, especially given the problem noted above it would present as an obstacle to meeting their objective.
You cannot question that objective rationally. This is a movie with a $150 million budget. There HAS to be some interest by mainstream moviegoers. You can say that you wish they would simply have made another average budget ST movie to bring back Shatner’s Kirk, but it is difficult to argue in favor of making a film about Shatner’s Kirk when the intended audience includes a great deal of people who have disliked Trek in the past (for whatever reason) or have never given it a chance at all due to some preconceived notions about it.
Then, of course, there are those in my circle who stopped going to see ST films in the late 80’s because of the way Shatner started portraying Kirk differently in later years. IMO, he stopped being William Shatner as James Kirk and started portraying James Kirk as William Shatner. His performances began to get a little tiresome. I thought that after TVY, it went downhill. His character from STV through Generations had lost a little flavor to me, and I was the last of my friends to stop going to see those movies (after Generations, I never paid to see another Star Trek film). There are alot of people my age who loved the original series and the first 4 films, who did not care for what came next. It is almost as if Star Trek (and much of the original cast in particular) had started to pander to the satirists a bit, specifically with Kirk.
Oh well, I am thrilled about the recast and I thought Nimoy was the perfect choice to be included in this project. If I could buy my ticket now….I would!
#58 … Is it a bad business decision to kill your character off if you’re lead to believe you’re never going to get another chance to play the role again regardless? Why is that so hard for some to understand? TOS was over & done with by 1994. No more planned. Finished. Paramount was reluctant to even greenlight VI in 1991! The “old cast” was already out to pasture. So Shat took the last ride that was offered to him. The fact that the character died in that last appearance strikes me as more of a bad creative decision than anything, as it made for a real downer of a movie. Berman, Moore, Braga and, yes, Shatner should’ve known that (at least half of them now do). The character had earned a happy ending. He didn’t get one. The film suffers as a result.
It was only Berman’s driving the franchise into the ground years later that made Star Trek 2009, with its return to TOS, a possibility. There was no way for Shatner to forsee that 15 years later, he might have another shot at the role. I think everyone who says he made a bad business decision isn’t taking the facts into account.
#59 “Then, of course, there are those in my circle who stopped going to see ST films in the late 80’s because of the way Shatner started portraying Kirk…”
It seems very appropriate to use a Kirk line from STV to respond to the above statement: “Oh, please.”
#61—That is not an exaggeration. Before STV, my friends and I could not wait to see the next ST movie. After that, it was just me (I was always the more dedicated Trek fan in the group). By the time I saw Generations, even I would have had a hard time motivating myself to see another one even if Kirk had not been killed. I know it is not everyone’s opinion, but I could hardly watch Shatner continue to portray James T. Kirk at that point. Even today, when I watch TOS, TMP, TWOK, TSFS, or (to a lesser degree)TVY, it is easy for me to emotionally involve myself with the character. In anything after that, I find it difficult to take him seriously. I don’t know why you find that difficult to believe.
Shatner is so much like Kirk; energetic, tireless, kind of impetuous and with a rebellious streak. Don’t know about Trek, but the next “Night At the Museum” movie takes place in the National Air and Space Museum, where the TOS Enterprise model is. Now just suppose when the stuff starts coming alive Ben Stiller runs into William Shatner and…
I’m getting tired of people bashing Rick Berman. Yes, he made some mistakes, but for most part he kept the franchise alive and produced three excellent series and one partially excellent. It’s because of him (amongst some others) that Star Trek didn’t fall into oblivion after ST6.
He has given a lot of his care and energy for ST. Cut the guy some slack will ya’.
#60, Regardless of whether TOS was over and done with or not, allowing one of the most beloved characters in science fiction be killed off - and to die so badly at that - was a bad move no matter how you slice it. Now I could care less about William Shatner not appearing in the new movie; my disappointment lies with taking such a great character and utterly gutting him for shock value and as a cheap casting stunt.
Shatner showed very poor judgment in agreeing to let Kirk die and he completely ignored big picture, namely James T. Kirk’s place in sci-fi mythology. Instead of letting him fade into the sunset, his final fate vague and left to peoples imaginations (like all great heros) he threw him off a rickety bridge, all for a quick paycheck.
Kudos to Leonard Nimoy and Deforest Kelley for having the good sense (and goot taste) to bow out gracefully and reject any notion of appearing in that piece of garbage. Too bad Shatner wasn’t capable of showing similar common sense and a little more respect and compassion for a character that had been with him for so many years.
Btw, with that I was referring to post #60.
So, from your post SF2K, I can take two things: Shatner is guilty of both lack of vision and poor business decision making. As Spock said in Star Trek V, Shatner’s complicity to kill off Kirk was “Unwise”. A good business man doesn’t close doors to profit. JJ Abrams didn’t close the door. The events that were allowed to happen in “Generations” did. And, yes, I am still a bit angry about that. Because I love the character of James T. Kirk as portrayed by William Shatner. There was no need to ever have to watch him die. But Bill won’t accept his responsibility in how his character died. I’ve not once read where he has said “Boy, was that a mistake.” Nimoy certainly said it more than once after TWOK and he was in a fortunate position to get his character back. William Shatner was not so lucky. He left the fate of his trademark character in someone else’s hands.
#65—”…my disappointment lies with taking such a great character and utterly gutting him for shock value and as a cheap casting stunt.”
He (Berman) didn’t even GET shock value, given that we already knew he was going to die. Like everybody else, I also wish that Bill had not accepted the role (his current claim that Berman threatened to kill him off anyway is rather absurd) and participated in that farce.
” Too bad Shatner wasn’t capable of showing similar common sense and a little more respect and compassion for a character that had been with him for so many years.”
IMO, this was clearly a financial decision for him. He saw another Star Trek paycheck and took it. I don’t really begrudge him for that. It simply is what it is. The character (old Kirk) is dead for all practical purposes. Sure, you could find a way to resurrect his character given the nature of Star Trek, assuming you are willing to devote at the very least, a worthy subplot to explain it and make such an endeavor actually beneficial to the story. The bottom line is, that is not the film which they (Orci, Kurtzman, Lindelof, Abrams, or the studio) wanted to make. I, for one, am glad. I would rather Star Trek get the epic treatment it deserves with a young and vibrant cast portraying the youthful versions of the characters I know and love. Nimoy is a fantastic bonus.
I don’t blame Shatner for taking the money, I suppose, but for my own selfish reasons, I wish he had not participated in GEN. Like you, I prefer to remember Shatner’s Kirk very differently. Even if he had not participated, it is difficult to imagine him (Shatner) having a significant role in a story like this. If the film begins in the post-Nemesis era, he was probably not going to be alive anyway. All indications are that the rest of the story takes place pre-TOS.
The only good way I could see to include him is in a GFII-like flashback scene, depicting a conversation between Spock and Kirk which took place before he (Kirk) boarded the Enterprise-B. Unfortunately, that ship has sailed (no pun intended). Shatner might have been offered such a brief appearance (who knows?), but he made it very clear that he “doesn’t do cameos”.
Airplane II: The Sequel, anyone? Mork and Mindy? I guess in his growth as a star actor, he somehow became too good for that kind of thing along the way…
I guess that it is fair to say that Shatners non involvement in any capacity in the new movie is a debate that is not likely to go away any time soon. Perhaps this is one occasion in which old Jim will not be making a difference on screen but will sucessfully do so off screen due to his abscence and the dissapointment it is generating.
#59 “Then, of course, there are those in my circle who stopped going to see ST films in the late 80’s because of the way Shatner started portraying Kirk differently in later years.
The idea or suggestion that Shatner played Kirk any different in Trek’s 5 and 6 leaves me scratching my head. There is no discernable difference in his acting or his body langueage or the words that the writers put in his mouth in Trek 5 or 6. If anything, I’d say some of his flowery dialog in Trek 3 was a little out of character, but that was Harve Bennett’s doing. I’d love to hear how Shatner played the character differently, sure looked and acted like Jim Kirk to me.
#64 “I’m getting tired of people bashing Rick Berman. Yes, he made some mistakes, but for most part he kept the franchise alive and produced three excellent series and one partially excellent. It’s because of him (amongst some others) that Star Trek didn’t fall into oblivion after ST6.
He has given a lot of his care and energy for ST. Cut the guy some slack will ya’.”
He kept something alive, but it didn’t even remotely resemble the StarTrek I knew and loved. I’m glad so many enjoyed that new age stuff that had Star Trek slapped in the title, but it didn’t do a thing for me. Neither Berman or Roddenberry will be getting any slack from me any time soon for their re-invention and iminent destruction of the franchise.
#67 “A good business man doesn’t close doors to profit.”
I don’t think it was so much a case of closing a door as it was already being locked out, then being let in one more time. A lot of fans like to make it sound as if Shatner was offered a lucrative deal for 3 more sequels, or a chance to kill Kirk … and he chose to die and not do anymore movies. Wrong. (Nimoy was the one who made such a choice during Star Trek II, deciding he didn’t want to play the role anymore.) Generations was, as far as anyone knew at the time, Shatner’s final opportunity to make a Star Trek movie! The Next Generation movies were not going to include TOS characters, there was no more movie profit forthcoming for the original crew.
Like I already said, it was a bad creative decision by all parties involved to have Kirk die (and, yes, Shatner has acknowledged this), but I understand his thinking in accepting the part - he believed, as did we all until the new movie went into production last year, Generations was his last chance to play Kirk.
#50
Yes, Lyle, I have read Bugliosi’s book……………I’ll make it simple for any of you conspiracy doubters……….
Please read two books………Jim Marrs’ s Crossfire and Anthony Summers’s Conspiracy. Anyone who reads both books will have a hard time accepting Oswald as the lone gunman after that!
Many have observed that shat’s comments about not being in the new Star Trek as part of an elaborate conspiracy…but they miss the true conspiracy
Obviously Shatners comment in his autobio about JFK was part of the coverup
it is now clearer than ever that Shatner was in fact ‘badge man’ on the grassy knoll
Oooh, Anthony, nice reference! And if the Shat was wearing a police uniform that day he would be taken for a young T.J. Hooker!
Great! Now people are going to hear JFK was killed by a Hooker and think sex killing! Yikes!!
@74 - Anthony :-)
Very nice… I did like that.
@75 - Harry, there’s a Marilyn Munro angle in there if you care to emm, delve… I just can’t bring myself to put all the words in the same sentence….
but but…i thought Shats was gonna appear as George Kirks dad (therefore James Kirks grandpops) and would have a scene with Pine (especially since the Shat of today looks abit diff to Generations Kirk)
hey theres a year left..they can still film the scene.
#70—” I’d love to hear how Shatner played the character differently, sure looked and acted like Jim Kirk to me.”
He simply stopped acting altogether. He appeared as William Shatner in a Starfleet uniform, instead of as the character we knew.
Look again at his dialogue (and poor one-line humor) with the shapeshifter during his fight-scene in the snow (something else I did not need to see at his age) during STVI, for example. If you think that is the same Captain Kirk who fought the Gorn on Cestus III, defeated Khan in engineering, and again in the Mutara Nebula, or that the James Kirk who battled the Romulan Commander in BOT is the same guy as the jackass on a horse in STV, then I don’t know what to tell you!
The James Kirk I knew had more dignity and discipline than the one I saw posing in his uniform post TVY. I genuinely believe that Bill stopped playing the part and started playing himself. He began acting as if this was all something “goofy” and he wanted the audience to know that he was aware of that, and that he wasn’t taking it too seriously.
If you disagree, that’s okay. You can sit there and convince yourself that he was putting just as much effort into it as he was when Nick Meyer had to wear him out to get a good scene out of him in TWOK. As for me, I have no illusions about it.
Shat phoned in his last three performances as Jim Kirk. There….I said it.
Shatner as Kirk (TOS-TVY)= great
Kirk as Shatner (TFF-GEN)= not-so-great
#78
I agree and would put it this way:
Shatner as Kirk (TOS-TVH)= the right stuff
Kirk as Shatner (TFF-GEN)= nothing but fluff
regarding Kirks death - said it before I’ll say it again..before Generations i’d always imagined that if Kirk had to die on screen it’d be alone (yep - Trek V) on the bridge of the enterprise (the age old captain goes down with his ship motif)
sorta like that scene of him alone on the bridge from This Side of Paradise..mixed with the Trek III destruct scene
#79—Thank you, Harry. Even better put…
78 - Poop Face
yep i’ve noticed the change with Shatner in Kirks character for TFF and GEN (but not TUC )..he was more jolly and less serious in those 2 films..making jokes..playing it for laughs..almost winking at the audience
I just put it down to Shatner directing himself in TFF and a TNG tv guy directing him in GEN..(everyone was probably in awe of him on the set of GEN anyway)
However i thought in TUC he was far closer to his Wrath of Khan persona..obviously down to Meyer directing…
regarding the other movies - well TMP was being directed by Robert Wise and was the highly anticipated first film with a huge budget - Shatner will have been uber alert and wanting to get it right anyway…with Khan he was being directed by Meyer (who gave away the secret of directing Shatner in the Trek II dvd commentary)…and for III and IV it was his pal Nimoy directing him who will have known the best way to direct him from seeing it happen in the previous films and TOS..
#78 You’ve given that opinion (about Shatner post-1986) countless times. And I say to you, it’s all subjective. Who is to say Shatner didn’t decide Kirk should be more mellow in middle age? Isn’t that usually how human beings evolve anyway? A lot of times we grow less reverent over the years, ceasing to be as intense and uptight as we were in years gone by. Sometimes it’s the opposite. People can and should change a lot from 30 to 60! In any event, many people didn’t mind at all the way Bill played Kirk in later years. Even though his death in Generations sucked, I thought he gave a very nice performance.
Any perceived “poor one-line humor” was the fault of the writers, not the actor. And even back on TOS, Kirk made humorous comments during dangerous situations. That’s one of the things I like about him.
# 78 “He simply stopped acting altogether. He appeared as William Shatner in a Starfleet uniform, instead of as the character we knew.
Look again at his dialogue (and poor one-line humor) with the shapeshifter during his fight-scene in the snow (something else I did not need to see at his age) during STVI, for example. ”
Sounds like your beef should be with Nick Meyer for writing it. How is ANY of that “one line humor any different from “Remember where we parked.” from Trek 4? Or “He’s fruity as a nutcake” in Trek 3? Or “I don’t think these kids can steer” from Trek 2? That’s three of the supposed “Kirk is Kirk” movies. Those are ok? If your beef was with ALL the movies, then at least you would be consistant.
“If you think that is the same Captain Kirk who fought the Gorn on Cestus III, defeated Khan in engineering, and again in the Mutara Nebula, or that the James Kirk who battled the Romulan Commander in BOT is the same guy as the jackass on a horse in STV, then I don’t know what to tell you!”
You mean the jackass on the horse that rode in, kicked some ass on a mission to rescue hostages because Starfleet ordered him to do so? Hmm…Kirk on a mission, tricking his way in, fighting hand to hand to rescue hostages…yeah, I guess I can imagine that Kirk as being the same Kirk that fought the Gorn. Not hard at all really.
The same, supposed non-Kirk, who battles Chang in a cat and mouse game of starship tactics being the same Kirk who outwitted Khan and the Romulan commander in Balance of Terror? Yep, I guess I have no problem seeing that either.
Sorry, Mr. Poopie face, it looks like we’ll just have to agree to disagree on the “Kirk is only Kirk on the first 4 movies” thing. I just don’t see it.
Classic Shatner!
I assume everyone here has a copy of “Has Been” ? Everyone play, “You’ll have Time”
“By the time you hear this,
I
may well
be dead ”
~~Shatner
Long live the Shat!
Where did girl6 go???
#78,#79 Surely the scripting had a lot to do with any demise in Shatners delivery of Kirk.There was less of an emotional content for him to work with from TOS-TSFS.He didn’t afterall write his own dialog.
Sorry, I meant from TFF-GEN.
Admiral Bumblebee, your idea harkens back to the “Kirk & Spock are gay” fanzines of the 70’s. Really, Kirk gives Spock a coy look as Spock beams out? Remember the looks Spock gave Kirk in Mudd’s Women? You might have something there.
How about it, girl6? Ever write a Kirk & Spock kissy face story?
I think Shat should be in the movie just to confirm that Kirk and Spock are indeed gay, getting married in SF, with Sulu as the best man and Mirror Sulu as maid of honor. Tim Curry as the preacher. Honeymooning on a Bird of Prey.
LOL
Yes, it’s time to hand the reins over to a new generation of actors - just as they did in the 1998 “Lost in Space” feature, which, as we know, lead to a spectacular revival of that franchise. In that film, the producers wisely wouldn’t cast Bill Mumy as the adult Will Robinson because “he wasn’t right for the part.” Let’s face it, they were right. Will Robinson was and will always be…uh, (checking IMDb…)…let’s see…Jack Johnson.
If 60-year-old Shatner seemed implausible in his STVI fight scene how will we be able to stomach 65-year-old Harrison Ford in the new Indiana Jones film?
#88 … LOL!
I find it disturbing when my action heroes have enough wrinkles to hold a three-day rain!
#83—”You’ve given that opinion (about Shatner post-1986) countless times. And I say to you, it’s all subjective.”
Of course it is. One man’s crap is another man’s treasure…Given the response from Harry and Snake, I’d say I am not the only one who feels that way, and I’m sure there are just as many who think otherwise. I do not intend anything I choose to present as opinion to be mistaken for fact…
#84—”Sorry, Mr. Poopie face, it looks like we’ll just have to agree to disagree on the “Kirk is only Kirk on the first 4 movies” thing. I just don’t see it.”
Fair enough. Look, we are all fans of Shatner’s work to some degree or another. I happen to see what I view as a difference in Shatner’s work with the character in the first 4 movies (and I did point out that my opinion of TVY is different than my opinion of the first 3. I think the success of TVY, and the misinterpretation of that, is part of the reason Shatner took his character in a different direction) versus the last 3. You mentioned his comic stabs in TWOK and TSFS. I’ll give you TSFS in the brig, but it is isolated and has the intent of distracting the guard in charge of letting him in to see McCoy. In TWOK, the joke you mentioned takes place in a non-critical moment without any knowledge of the peril ahead, as opposed to in the middle of a fight scene with a dangerous alien while executing their escape attempt. I’m sorry, but I see a difference.
As for blaming Harve Bennett, it is no secret that Shatner gained more and more control over his character as the film series moved on. Shatner either agreed to that type of cartoonish dialogue, or he insisted on it. Either way, I didn’t like it.
And to the assertion that James Kirk on the horse was being James Kirk, I think I feel comfortable in seeing that as one of the more embarassing scenes in a really really bad movie. He looks like a buffoon to me. That is just my opinion. James Kirk was no buffoon until Shatner allowed him to appear that way in STV. Again, that is my opinion, and you are of course entitled to yours.
Nowadays, when the kids and I watch the Star Trek movies on a Sunday afternoon, we stop after TVY. In retrospect, I would rather that have been the swan song. It’s not just Shatner’s acting, but also the notion that the crew is still there stuck under Kirk’s command. It isn’t until STVI that one of them actually gets out from under him. Their entire character development, with regard to career advancement, is suspended (except for Kirk, whose career regresses) from TWOK to TUC. Here you have three captains (Kirk and Spock, plus it is really unclear as to Scotty’s rank by then) and four commanders (Sulu, Checkov, McCoy, and Uhura) serving aboard the same ship in the same capacity as they had twenty years earlier as Lt. Cmdrs, Lt’s, and even Ensigns. I don’t blame Shatner for that (except maybe for Sulu having to wait until TUC to get a command), but it is another reason I don’t like the last three films that much.
#88—”If 60-year-old Shatner seemed implausible in his STVI fight scene how will we be able to stomach 65-year-old Harrison Ford in the new Indiana Jones film?”
I’m not sure that we will!
If this new film includes scenes of the elder Spock in his own time, there can at least appear a statue of Kirk, somewhere. A colossal bronze of the lost admiral — sculpted from life and hiring Bill Shatner as the model — wouldn’t seem out of place at the San Fran space dock.
Willam Shatner-
“In fact, my daughter Lizbeth and her husband play a game: Can they get through an ordinary day without hearing my name mentioned or hearing my voice on the radio or television. Mostly they lose. ”
This is NOT a slam on Bill or his family, but those people need to get out more. Other than Trekmovie, I personally don’t see a lot of Shatner. His name doesn’t come up in conversations, I don’t enjoy Boston Legal, I apparently don’t watch enough TV to hear his voice. I think he’s overestimating his impact on current pop culture beyond what his role was in the 60’s.
IMO
Say what you want, but this continuous ragging on the age of Shatner and now Harrison Ford is really lame. I would have loved if my grandfathers had lived to age 76 (they didn’t) and had the vitality and energy that Shatner has.
SF2K, I would really love to see the article or interview that Shatner gave where he admitted that his agreeing to kill off Kirk is a mistake. When I see it, I’ll believe it. You can say that Berman is to blame but bottom line is that if William Shatner had not agreed to Kirk’s death, I doubt highly that it would have happened. So it’s time for William Shatner to stop saying that it’s a bad business move onn JJ Abram’s part. Not buying that. It was his bad decision that has landed him in the situation that he is in now. Ultimately, he is the cause of his own sadness in this concern.
do I wish he could logically be in this movie without some stupid half-baked plot contrivance that erases his death? Hell yes. It’s enough that we are geting an apparent time travel story to put Leonard Nimoy in the picture. I don’t think the plot could bear the weight of resurrecting Kirk from the dead.
Bad business decision..
really tired of hearing that when NO one knows if it’s true or false, including him.
re:74. Anthony Pascale
I like when you are humorous rather than scolding.
#97 … I never said it was all Berman. I said Berman, Braga, Moore AND Shatner all should’ve known better (post #60). And I’ve tried to stress that Paramount had already laid TOS to rest by 1994, so there was no future “business” to be done. Look, if someone came to you and said, “Thank you for your years of service, but you’re now out of a job. No more work for you here. But we will offer you one last chance to do a big gig and make a final big check … or you can just leave now with nothing,” what would you do? I think most of us would take the gig. Not that anyone here is admitting that.
As far as Shatner admitting Kirk’s death was a mistake, he’s discussed that many times. Do you really believe the man is so arrogant he is incapable of admitting he’s ever made a mistake? He knows. Here are a few examples, there are plenty of others:
http://trekmovie.com/2007/02/16/shatner-talks-about-the-death-of-kirk/
“It didn’t quite work. It never was quite the heroic ending you wanted to give…that was too bad.”
http://www.trektoday.com/news/210108_01.shtml
“The mistake I made was thinking I could make it a spectacular death with what they had written.”
#78
You and I have had our TUC debate, but I’ll agree with you on TFF & GEN. Shatner can’t be blamed for the dialogue in Generations, but he can certainly be blamed for it in The Final Frontier. He had a heavy hand in the storyline & script.
The mistake he made was agreeing to it at all. Lack of vision. Bad move. Hindsight is 20/20. I still never heard him admit that it was a mistake. Only that it could have been done better. And that is where I disagree. It shouldn’t have been done at all. That film set the tone for killing the franchise. Kill captain Kirk and destroy your ship. Even a half decent film like First Contact couldn’t fully take the taste out our mouth. Your quotes do more to emphasize the point that he doesn’t admit the mistake.
Again I say that we needn’t have seen Kirk die. It was useless. And now you and I and all the rest of the people who did so dearly love and enjoy his portrayal are left wanting.
#83
Good points.
#84
Well-stated.
Whenever Shatner appeared as Kirk, he was Kirk. And for those who may wonder if he can still pull off Kirk convincingly - well, I guess there’s only one way to find out…;)
I still think we’ll see him in it, maybe not the first film, but he’ll be in it somewhere!
If shatner wasn’t so fat and so short I think more people would be upset at his death in ‘Generations’ than the three of four who routinely obsess over the guy.
#102 … THX, you’re right about the fact that we all agree the death in Generations was, as Leonard Nimoy put it, “a waste and gratuitous.”
I see this site has now turned into a Shatner bashing site. It’s perfectly fine to call Shatner fat or short, etc., but heaven forbid you defend the guy, and you get banned. See post 105. Hypocrisy.
Bottom line is Abrams did lose business. You won’t see that reflected in this carefully edited talkback, but no matter what this movie does, Abrams foolishly locked out its biggest potential draw in Shatner.
The most successful trek movies were based on the good guy getting it real hard then picking himself up and coming back to kill the bad guy.
Remember Shatner in Wrath of Khan, yelling at Khan - KHAN!! from the inside of a dead planet, marooned for all eternity, KHAN!!!!; or Picard vs the Borg in that very emotional plea that he was gonna finish them once and for all, while arguing with a human from another time who could not understand how devastating the Borg are in the first place.
Big on emotions means big success, but also big on charisma too.
What about a future movie about Denise Crosby and the dying she went thru in ST:NG against that Asphalt monster.
I don’t care what negative crud she did on the set to make her character become one of the first major trek char’s to be killed in a TV series. That was the first time i ever cried at a trek tv show. Then she came back as a Romulan? I never understood that transition. Did the Romulans find her body in space and revive it?
My 2nd cry was my happiness for Picard when he arrived into the Nexus with the 4 beautiful children and wife he always dreamed about.
In the late 80’s, i saw Mr Shatner in NYC at a convention and he recognized my TJ Hooker picture, as i held it up.
Congratz to Dr Randy Pausch for securing a place in the next ST movie :) PS: Randy please talk to your doctors about Rituxan, (Rituximab) this infusion attaches a flag to the cancer which sends a signal for your body’s immune system to attack there.
Idea for next movie: Denise Crosby, a High Ranking Romulan comes back to find and destroy Worf, the Human Klingon.
Could set up a war between Romulans and Klingons
Worf gets an edge and battles back from near death to revenge against Denise.
In like an against all odds type of movie.
#107
This is hardly a Shatner-bashing site. Battletrek has been warned by Anthony numerous times, and will undoubtedly get warned again. There are thousands of comments on this site, and you can’t expect Anthony to instantly see every nasty one.
That aside, while it would have been nice to see William Shatner in the movie again, I don’t think it can be proven that he’ll be losing any business just because Shat’s not in it. Certain fans might be displeased, but for this movie to be sucessful it has to go way beyond us, as a group. This is the first Trek movie with the potential to be a blockbuster, and with that in mind it will have to go WAY beyond pleasing hardcore fans.
#110 “This is the first Trek movie with the potential to be a blockbuster, and with that in mind it will have to go WAY beyond pleasing hardcore fans.”
Actually, the first movie,with it’s $100 million or so domestic take, was considered a blockbuster back in 79. It was also the most expensive movie ever made at the time, taking the honors from Elizabeth Taylor’s Cleopatra. So, this big budget epic Star Trek blockbuster stuff, isn’t really anything new. It’s just been awhile since we’ve Trek on the silver screen in quite the same way.
battletrek banned for a week
#107—I think Sean is right. This site does not condone personal attacks just for the sake of making them. The vast majority of us are quite capable of simply sharing different opinions and responsibly carrying on an intelligent debate.
#110—Absolutely.
#111—While you are correct about TMP being an extremely expensive undertaking which took in a considerable amount at the box office, it really was not the thorough attempt at crossover appeal which we are seeing with the early promotion of STXI. People were, at that time, very excited to see anything with such remarkable special effects.
#107– Times have changed, and Star Trek has built a very mixed reputation among its hardcore fans and, especially, the average moviegoer. I would submit that leaving Shatner out of it probably helps the mainstream box office figures because having him there, along with Nimoy, would probably indicate that no matter what is said to the contrary, this is still more of the same. I don’t think Bill is quite the big draw you are giving him credit for. I don’t know of a single person who is not going to see this movie due to a lack of Shat…I do, however, know some who may just give it a shot, in part because he is NOT in it. Star trek fans are going to give it a chance, regardless. Even if someone told me that they would not because it did not include Bill, I would be hesitant to believe him/her. There were those here on this site who claimed that they wouldn’t when we first learned of his absence, but they have either changed their minds in the time since, or they post about it so much here that it is almost impossible to imagine them not seeing it anyway, if only to be able to post about what it was they disliked about it afterward and of how Shatner would have made it great! Bad business decision? Please…maybe for Bill, but that’s about it.
#95—”I think he’s overestimating his impact on current pop culture beyond what his role was in the 60’s.”
Me too. Obviously, Boston Legal plays to a particular demographic. To be honest, I would know nothing of the program or Bill’s involvement if not for the information on this site. Since learning of it, I did try to watch it once. Not for me…
#98—”Bad business decision..
really tired of hearing that when NO one knows if it’s true or false, including him”
Well said. Bill repeatedly emphasizes that he knows nothing at all about the film, yet continues to insist that the exclusion of himself is a poor business decision?
No, Bill. Star Trek V: The Great Trek Turd was a poor business decision…agreeing to a bad death scene in an equally bad TNG movie was a poor business decision.
#114:
Mr Poopey, If not for the lousy FX & David Loughery’s final ‘pun-filled’ screenplay, STV, while still a rousing adventure could have been 2nd to TWOK in greatness. Paramount watered down Shat’s concept & wanted more humor shoe horned in because TVH made big money, Nick Meyer was not available to write the screenplay, ILM was overbooked, there was a long writer’s strike, George Takei can’t act: all problems that were beyond Shat’s control.
To refer to STV as a turd is insulting to the many of us who love the film. Is it flawed, no question. Is it doody? NO WAY!
114. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) - May 21, 2008
I am glad we agree on the opinions I offered. I find most of your thoughts precise and cohesive.
Now may I offer another thought?
While I know you wear the moniker of Mr. Poopey face with great pride and it is a huge honor to wear it (and you wear it well)…
Bud…dude… it’s time to give up the title, man.
#115—You can like it if you want. Once again, one man’s crap is another man’s treasure. To me, it is The Great Trek Turd.
–Klingons who lower their heads like dogs to “apologize”
–Sarek having a child with a “Vulcan Princess”
–the Enterprise is a lemon
–the Enterprise is hijacked by the apple dumpling gang (and Kirk never even regains control on his own
–Spock betrays his captain
–Spock sings “Row Your Boat” while “toasting a marshmelon”
–a Romulan ambassador (played by an actreess that Shatner, as a director, fails to get any kind of quality performance out of) is actually so frightened that she needs to be held by a human counterpart
–the “benevolent” Federation actually allows the situation on the “Planet Of Intergalactic Peace” to reach the point of utter deprivation
–the Enterprise navigator and helmsman (both Starfleet “commanders”, mind you) are lost in the woods
–Scotty and Uhura embarass themselves in a middle school type flirtfest that never goes anywhere
–Uhura does a fandance
I could go on and on…IMO, that movie is a great big Trek turd. It is not even close to TWOK, and had zero potential to ever be worthy of even being mentioned in the same breath. Blame a strike, blame the budget, blame the studio, blame ILM, blame Takei, blame everyone but Shatner. I don’t care. It still sucks–plain and simple. But you go ahead and “love” the film…that’s your perogative. I’ll continue to pretend it isn’t canon.
#116–I’ll do that for you, Buddy.
107. WastedOpportunities - May 21, 2008
“I see this site has now turned into a Shatner bashing site. It’s perfectly fine to call Shatner fat or short, etc., but heaven forbid you defend the guy, and you get banned. See post 105. Hypocrisy.”
___I won’t defend what the poster said, but I don’t believe Anthony bans anyone for an opinion that is on-subject and does not insult or demean a person. That poster was penalized.
“Bottom line is Abrams did lose business. You won’t see that reflected in this carefully edited talkback, but no matter what this movie does, Abrams foolishly locked out its biggest potential draw in Shatner.”
___ While I understand this is your opinion, I don’t see where you can back up the statement at this time. No business has been lost or gained because the movie has yet to open. Calling it “foolish” at this point may well be just that. Additionally, we DO NOT know the entire story behind Shatner’s absence.
Xai- No! Poopey took on the title out of love and respect to Katie and I! He is going to wear it proudly until after the movie premiere, at which time he will decide if he wants to continue as the studly poopey face that he is, or go back into the closet… you know what I mean, Poopey.
#115 “Is it doody? NO WAY!”
I have a duty to report doody when I see it
Although ST:V had heart, it was really s***
The list of flaws could go on forever
For the sake of harmony I’ll endeavour
To say, “have at it!” with genuine spirit!
118. Closettrekker - May 21, 2008
“#116–I’ll do that for you, Buddy.”
___It’s good to see your clear-complected countenance again. A little soap does wonders.
Oh, Poopey, have you forsaken us? Alas, back into the closet you have gone, without even a look backward…
120. Denise de Arman - May 21, 2008
“Xai- No! Poopey took on the title out of love and respect to Katie and I! He is going to wear it proudly until after the movie premiere, at which time he will decide if he wants to continue as the studly poopey face that he is, or go back into the closet… you know what I mean, Poopey.”
___ A man’s gotta do what a man’s gotta do. Besides… would you want to called poopey or doody? Thank the Deity, Picard never called Data “Number Two”!
(I have a sudden mental image of Data, striving to be human< with a constipated look on his golden face at being called Number Two…)
Commander Crapper to the rescue!
Besides, would Katie want him to be forever saddled with a brown face?
Bravo that he wore it this long….
sorry, off subject
Closettrekker”
–the Enterprise navigator and helmsman (both Starfleet “commanders”, mind you) are lost in the woods.
Ummm, that didn’t make it to the screen, but we see your point.
Xai- LOL! Have you checked out Anthony’s Space Dominatrixes thread yet? Take a deep breath, but go ahead and plunge in - the water is very warm, as a matter of fact, it is hot, steaming and sizzling…
Oops… maybe they were lost… the memories fade..
!28 Denise
Yes…your pix in there?
Xai- LOL once again. As I said on the thread, my mirror universe uniform for the Vegas con is better than the Eymorg chick…
Whew… did it just get warm in here? I’d love to see that… just to see if it looked original, of course…
—
Denise, you MUST show us a picture of you in that uniform……..just so we know that it conforms with the pattern used in TOS!
#123—Sorry, Denise. My wife has been on me for months. It got to the point where we were sleeping in seperate beds and I couldn’t even get a kiss goodnight! I never thought my wife would let a little fecal face cream get in the way of our love and affection for each other, but it was just too much for her…Go figure.
Closet#134- LOL!