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Orci & Kurtzman: Star Trek Sequel Schedule Still Not Set – Already Working As Fast As They Can August 3, 2011

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Orci/Kurtzman,ST09 Cast,Star Trek (2009 film),Star Trek Into Darkness , trackback

Last week Paramount finally acknowledged that the sequel to the 2009 Star Trek movie has been delayed. Paramount did not set a new release date and now co-writer/producers Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman say the schedule is still up in the air, but they are already working as fast as they can.

 

Orci & Kurtzman: Star Trek schedule still being developed

Star Trek sequel co-writer/producers Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman did an interview with AICN’s Mr. Beaks about Cowboys & Aliens (in theaters now), but of course talk also turned to Trek. Last week the pair said they were hoping to see the film start shooting in January, but in this new interview they noted that the production start date (and the release date) aren’t set yet. Here is an excerpt:

Beaks: So you guys are gunning for a January production start date?
Kurtzman: We’re still in open conversation.
Orci: I’ve heard so many things mentioned, but we have so much… it’s a matter of someone putting the date on paper and saying, "We’re starting."
Kurtzman: We’re in the process already. A date at this point wouldn’t make us move any faster. We’re already in it.

Beaks: Rushing for a date always feels like a bad idea.
Kurtzman: It can be a very bad idea. Especially on TREK…
Orci: It’s just so effects-heavy. You go, "Oh, we only need so many weeks for ILM to [finish] that." Then you get there, and you’re like, "Oh, maybe we didn’t give them enough time…"
Kurtzman: You just don’t want to do that, especially on a movie that we all love so much and has high expectations.
Orci: Rushing means more expensive, and that’s a question for our benefactors, who have to decide how bad they want it in terms of that kind of stuff. You can finish stuff [quickly], but it means more people working simultaneously. So those are, in a way, production things that aren’t just based on time.

As noted previously on TrekMovie.com, Paramount are mulling two options to release the Star Trek sequel: holiday 2012 or summer 2013. Typically this kind of film would have around a year or more for production and post-production, but other tentpole films have sufficed with less.


Star Trek team still working out when the sequel will pull out of space dock

More from Orci & Kurtzman at AICN

Comments

1. Sebastian S. - August 3, 2011

Starting to think they’ll miss 2013 at this rate….

2. Bob Tompkins - August 3, 2011

I have just resigned myself to the fact it will be here when it gets here, good or bad.

3. Hat Rick - August 3, 2011

No need to rush. Just do a stellar job. “Stellar” — get it? ;-)

4. tony - August 3, 2011

i would rather have a good film so more will be made

5. Starman - August 3, 2011

The more I read of these updates on this sequel, the more I feel this thing is going to be put off until mid or late 2013. These on-going delays, uncertainty to the script, and no real commitment to getting this film out in a reasonable time frame (2-3 years) makes me feel as if this team is not really focused on ST but rather it’s a second tier (or third tier) project to them…real shame they have now lost the momentum of the their first film. Very disappointing to say the least.

6. Odkin - August 3, 2011

I think the time has come to just put James Cawley in charge of the damn thing, instead of these prima donnas.

Why are writers worried about studio release schedules and effect-house turntime, and marketing concerns? Are they wearing their Writer hats? Or their Producer hats? Or their Friends of JJ hats? Or their “Supreme Court” hats? This is why the Bad Robot projects are so mediocre. All Chiefs, no Indians. Jacks of All Trades, Masters of None.

Act like WRITERS, close the door, and get typing, boys!

7. trekker 5 - August 3, 2011

It’s nice for me to hear there in the thick of it,makes me feel better about the whole thing. I want it to be good,I want ‘em to take the time they need,i just kinda wish they had taken that time before now so we could all be talking about when it was coming out and getting ready for that. But,oh well;I have loved Super 8 and Cowboys & Aliens,so,I know they are doing their best at this,I’ll be waiting with a :) !

8. MvRojo - August 3, 2011

I’m no longer expecting great things from them.

9. Starman - August 3, 2011

#7 & 9 – totally agree!

10. Battle-scarred Sciatica - August 3, 2011

I wouldn’t count on it being finished in this decade.

Disappointing really.

:(

11. andrew - August 3, 2011

They should slow down. If they wait long enough, it can be set in the 23rd century and be a topical current events movie.

12. MJ - August 3, 2011

Rushing? Rushing? Rushing?

You’ve got to be fracking kidding me?

This is the worst “in your face” insult to the fans yet?

Rushing?????????

How is it 2 years after the first movie with only an outline ready is RUSHING a danger for this group?

“Kurtzman: We’re in the process already. A date at this point wouldn’t make us move any faster. We’re already in it.”

I disagree completely. This is an insult to our intelligence as fans. A date is exactly what is needed to get these procrastinators off the dime.

Memo to Orci and Kurtzman — I don’t want to he any more whining every about RUSHING. You are already a year behind schedule.

“Orci: I’ve heard so many things mentioned, but we have so much… it’s a matter of someone putting the date on paper and saying, “We’re starting.”

We’re starting??? Bob, you told us August that the script would be done by December, then you told us in January it would be done by March, and then you mentioned in February that you were having off-site hotel sessions to work on the script……will all due respect, What The F*ck??? Bro, this strains all matter of credibility at this point — I am really losing in faith in the sequel now.

Memo to Paramount Exec: Please open up a can of the old-school exec can of whoop-ass that we used to hate, but now appreciate. These guys absolutely need a deadline to work from at this point.

Rushing indeed….sheesh, I’ve heard it all now. And what really gets me is the arrogance to come our and complain about rushing at this point? Scotty, please beam me out of this post….

13. Celeste - August 3, 2011

You know, there’s the whole ‘not wanting to rush it’ thing but the longer this gets batted around and delayed the less confident I feel about it. It makes me think that they keep pushing it to the side in favor of other things. It also makes me think that maybe they’re not as confident about the story as they make it seem and really dont know what to do with it. I mean, by the time the cast gets to actually filming this thing, they’ll all be older than it was originally planned. I wonder if thats being taken into consideration. Plus a lot of them are all involved in other projects which they cant forever put on hold to wait for Trek to come back. Must be nice. In my job we’d get in serious trouble if we missed our deadlines and delayed a project that long…

14. jas_montreal - August 3, 2011

Hire Hans Zimmer for the sequels Music Score.

15. Chadwick - August 3, 2011

I am quite content to wait.

16. Capt Who Cares - August 3, 2011

Ok…. Tired of this. They blew it we all know it. Any good press and momentum for Star Trek has been killed. I am a die hard Trek fan and pretty much have had it. Who cares… Abrams you suck and glad to see you spent all the time on a crappy movie and stalled out a franchise. Someone at Paramount should kick your ___!!!

17. MJ - August 3, 2011

@15. Sure, Lazarus, whatever you say.

18. Chris Doohan - August 3, 2011

Give’r all you got, Orci!!

19. MJ - August 3, 2011

@18 “All (he’s) got isn’t good enough. What else have you got?”

20. red dead ryan - August 3, 2011

Paramount should just come out and announce that the sequel will be hitting theatres in summer 2013. And make it the FINAL deadline. At some point, it has to get done, and the next year and a half will be ample time, unless they can’t come up with a plot, in which case the sequel will be scrapped with the franchise put back into hibernation.

The writers don’t have to “rush” the script. They just need to make progress quicker than a snail’s pace.

I think it’s pretty clear though, that Chris Pine will be filming the Jack Ryan movie before returning as Captain Kirk, and that film has gone through a major rewrite!

21. dmduncan - August 3, 2011

Do you smell what the L-O-K is cooking?

22. Ahmed Abdo - August 3, 2011

You know what, I don’t really want to hear any more “updates” from Orci & Kurtzman until they actually start shooting the movie.

23. The 76th Distillation of Blue - August 3, 2011

22 I am with you on that, If they stop with the “Updates” ill stop with my complaining about the postponement.
keep bringing it up every other day/week though and of course its going to make me/others complain.

rather than “UPDATE”, just work on the thing and give an update when you really have an update.

then you dont have to back peddle through comments made previously about “well announce news soon etc”

24. The 76th Distillation of Blue - August 3, 2011

6 as much as i dislike his vision of Trek, Cawley atleast can get his vision on paper and infront of a camera alot faster than 2 and half years.
and on a shoestring budget at that.

25. DeShonn Steinblatt - August 3, 2011

How come the people who keep announcing they’re leaving never actually leave? I am very, very disappointed in you. Talk about getting our hopes up for nothing.

26. Space - August 3, 2011

I agree with #12 MJ. Seriously, over 2 years since first movie, and they haven’t even started the script. Just keep pushing the date back.
I mean, come on! What are they all doing?! Just get started!!

27. VZX - August 3, 2011

Wow. What’s the big deal? They’ll get it done eventually. I don’t understand why people get so upset over it. I wouldn’t mind waiting another year or two or three as long as its good.

Chill, people. For reallsies.

28. Hugh Hoyland - August 3, 2011

Get cracking boys! We’re rapidly approaching the 23 century, you dont want this movie to wind up being a documentary do ya? :]

29. CanOpener1256 - August 3, 2011

Hmmm . I would get working on this ASAP. Otherwise, I am really afraid this “Supreme Court” will be renamed “The people who killed Star Trek”.

30. Buzz Cagney - August 3, 2011

There’s that word ‘rushing’ again!
Bob, rushing it would have been if you’d started on the second one two days after the first one opened. What you’ve done is ‘taken your time’.

31. Mel - August 3, 2011

“As noted previously on TrekMovie.com, Paramount are mulling two options to release the Star Trek sequel: holiday 2012 or summer 2013.”

I really doubt, that Paramount is seriously mulling the first option. The movie will never be ready by then and don’t forget time for promotion. I bet we won’t get the movie sooner than summer 2013. I won’t be surprise, if it will be even holiday 2013.

I hope that the producers/writers are 100 % committed on bringing the third movie in the cinemas in 2015, and if not that Paramount will get new people for the third movie. I don’t want another 4 years pause!

32. Jonboc - August 3, 2011

#12. “Scotty, please beam me out of this post….”

..no Scotty, please beam him out of this thread! lol MJ has, without a doubt, supplanted Captain Neil…whom I must say, has shown respectable restraint of late, for posting the same things over and over and over…and over. yes, you hate Shatner…we know…and yes, you’re pissed about JJ and the writers for having a career outside of the Trek franchise. We get it! ok? WE GET IT. Give it a rest, man. we know you’re passionate about the sequel and it’s delays, but good Lord, don’t you have anything ELSE to say?? the sequel is a long LONG time away…that’s painful enough without your endless speculative commentary as to why things are dragging.

33. Vultan - August 3, 2011

There’s only one good response to these guys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCc-RWIp7XU

34. SIP - August 3, 2011

#14 – On the contrary, please keep Zimmer and Remote Control as far as possible from these films!

35. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - August 3, 2011

it will be out when it is out. to try and get them to move faster would be illogicle.

36. Robert H. - August 3, 2011

Given a choice of getting it done fast or done right, I’d pick done right any day.

37. Chingatchkook - August 3, 2011

I am kind of disappointed that the Trek appears to be a low priority in the grand scheme of things.

At least Leo Roberts and the fan production Star Trek Phoenix are hard at work putting together a new fan episode (Their first episode was amazing). At this rate, I bet Phoenix will be ready and beat out JJ by a light year!

38. MJ - August 3, 2011

@32. Well, fine, I get you as well, Jonboc. You have made a habbit of posting complaints about me before. I plead guilty about being very passionate about Trek isssues that I care about. In contrast though, let me make an objective assessment here about where you are coming from — you seem more passionate about taking me down a peg or embarrassing me on these boards then you do about discussing Trek topics?

Jonboc, please address the issue at hand — I would like to hear what you think about this? Doesn’t it bother you in the slightest that the latest interview from these guys has them complaining about RUSHING? Don’t you find that utterly ridiculous? It is upsetting to me and to many fans…so sue me I guess…I sincerely apologize if I have offended anyone who may perhaps sensitive my opinion on this topic.

I will grant you that I am a bit nuts on the Shat issue (which I will not be addressing anymore per Anthony’s warning to me), but on this issue of the continued delays, and now the whining and excuses from the writing team — well, it looks here from these posts that at least 2/3 of the people here agree with me on this. I do think that I have valid points on this issue!

39. SoonerDave - August 3, 2011

Seems to me Paramount is trying to hedge their bets – hoping against hope they can hit Christmas 2012, but realistically betting on Summer 2013.

First time I’ve heard from any of the new Trek Supreme Court that sounds like they’re *truly* starting to feel some heat about getting things moving.

40. MJ - August 3, 2011

Don’t get me wrong, folks. I still love Trek 09, and I love the creativity and talent that the Supreme Court brings to Trek. But I think we all realize now that time management skills, multitasking, decisiveness in decision-making, and communications with us fans are not exactly their strong points. :-)

41. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 3, 2011

#6 – “Why are writers worried about studio release schedules and effect-house turntime, and marketing concerns? Are they wearing their Writer hats? Or their Producer hats? Or their Friends of JJ hats? Or their “Supreme Court” hats? This is why the Bad Robot projects are so mediocre. All Chiefs, no Indians. Jacks of All Trades, Masters of None.”

Really? Well, these guys are also the producers and they are writing. They said so. Some people are never satisfied, it seems. They are giving us an overview, in basic terms, of what needs to be considered when writing for a movie. How is that wrong?

This is how I understand it…This is an example only.
– In the story there is a battle between the Enterprise and other ships, shall we say Klingons. How do they tell or show this?

One way is to write a script that shows the entire battle scene – lots of explosions and casualties and Kirk being seen actually making important command decisions which could cause the Enterprise and crew to either win or lose the battle. Some very intense and dramatic scenes would be shown to us as the audience on the big cinema screen, possibly in 3D.

Another way is for the audience to shown a little of the aftermath (Enterprise wins, of course) with a scene showing Kirk talking to Admiral Pike in his “ready” room or private quarters, reporting what had just happened, giving casualty figures and present status of the Enterprise – like whether it has warp drive or not, how much damage…stuff like that.

It is a no-brainer to work which would be the easier and cheaper option – clearly the second. The first option would require more time and money to do – in terms of acting, models, CGI, FX, post-production, all that fancy technical stuff that ILM etc are right into.

However, the question has to be asked as to how important the battle is to the overall plot/story line, ie, can skilful writing, where the entire battle scene is done, show good character development and interaction as they face an enemy? Could the audience learn a lot more about who are on those other ships, eg Klingons, that might be essential to a better understanding of the overall story?

Or would showing the entire battle just be scenes to gratify people who get off on seeing big explosions, injury and death, ships being damaged and destroyed, with, not least, lots of noise and loud menacing music, with little or nothing more learned of significance by the audience at large?

I am not saying that a battle scene or fight should not be in the film. It is really a question of (dramatic) relevance. The same could also be said of a romantic liaison or showing Kirk shooting hoops in the Rec. room.

Curiously, a good romantic love scene would require far less money and post-production time, but perhaps may require greater genuine acting skills by those playing the characters involved. If done well, it could be a beautiful, inspiring and uplifting scene.

42. Basement Blogger - August 3, 2011

@ 12, 32

I think it’s okay for MJ or Captain Neil to repeat their arguments if it’s relevant to the conversation. Not everyone here is a regular. And if you read MJ’s complaints, he uses the multiple stories that have been told about the progress of Star Trek (2013) to support his argument.. I mean I remember that the script was going to be done in March. Then we were told the writers were hunkering down in a hotel to finish it. Now we know there is no complete script but an extensive outline. I’m not a filmmaker but I ‘m going to guess that it’s hard to make a movie with just an outline.

MJ is staunch supporter of the Supreme Court. And frankly I think he has a right to be unhappy about the delay. I think we’re all gratefull for Bob Orci. He’s been very kind to listen to our complaints, compliments and jokes. However, it’s logical that the delay would disappoint Trekkers. And the worse thing that could happen to any franchise, entertainment or sport is apathy. Paramount should announce the new date for Star Trek asap. And let’s face it, summer 2013 is the logical choice. It’s a completely open period for a tentpole film.

Meanwhile, I’m catching up with Star Trek: Enterprise. Hey the Xindi have some non-humanoid aliens. Cool. Strange new life forms.

43. Ryan Gromm - August 3, 2011

I’ve decided these two writers aren’t as talented as one would be led to believe….

The truth is, they have NO CLUE how to write the sequel, and that’s why they keep stalling over and over again.

Some of the garbage they’ve churned out in the past 4 years w Transformers , Cowboys and Aliens, etc, doesn’t qualify them as GREAT writers… but they’ve figured out a good formula to make studios happy..

These guys could have had a draft written a year ago if they knew what the heck they were doing… but they don’t! Paramount needs to start asking questions and decide on replacements…

Heck, even I’ve now lost interest in the sequel because it’s been so long, and I do consider myself a die-hard fan.. instead I’m finding that revisiting the original movies is a lot more fun than waiting on these two clowns to come up with something “original” on their own…

44. MJ - August 3, 2011

@42 “MJ is staunch supporter of the Supreme Court. And frankly I think he has a right to be unhappy about the delay. I think we’re all gratefull for Bob Orci. He’s been very kind to listen to our complaints, compliments and jokes. However, it’s logical that the delay would disappoint Trekkers. And the worse thing that could happen to any franchise, entertainment or sport is apathy. Paramount should announce the new date for Star Trek asap. And let’s face it, summer 2013 is the logical choice. It’s a completely open period for a tentpole film.”

Thanks BB! I do think thought that it is time I took a few days off from this topic as some folks seem to be getting upset in my opinions in a way that was not intended by me. To me, Trek fans should be upset with the content of this article today, but obviously that is not the case…IDIC.

45. Jack - August 3, 2011

43. And we’ll all still be catching the damned thing in theatres (or downloading it illegally to prove a point – “I’ll show you guys for taking your time!”)

I get the being frustrated — but all this ‘they’re not talented, they don’t respect Trek, they’ve let us down, how hard could it be to write a script, I hope their other projects tank’ stuff is, well, lame.

And, alas, Keachick, I’m still hoping for minimal romance in this thing… but that just may be a reflection of my cold, dead heart.

46. Jack - August 3, 2011

Oh, and just to fit in here with a nasty comment — I’m hoping for more imaginative art direction than seen in Cowboys and Aliens.

(ps. Adam Beach for Trek sequel)

47. somethoughts - August 3, 2011

I would have loved to see the sequel next summer but at least we have the dark knight rises, the avengers and the amazing spiderman to hold us until the star trek sequel. The comics and the upcoming video game will have to hold us until whenever ST2 Destroyer of Worlds comes out in 2013, you can have that title boborci as long as you invite tremovie.com regular posters positive or negative to see a sneak peak showing of ST2 in 2013

48. somethoughts - August 3, 2011

Btw I do feel jealous that harry potter films comes out every year or two

49. MJ - August 3, 2011

@43 “These guys could have had a draft written a year ago if they knew what the heck they were doing… but they don’t! Paramount needs to start asking questions and decide on replacements…”

One easy solution might be to turn what Orci/Kurtzman have so far over to Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse, and let them move forward with completing the script. (Yes I know Lindelof is part of the current writing team, but notice how we don’t hear from him much — perhaps the hold-up and perhaps the writers block is coming from central main writers, Orci and Kurtzman — yes, this in conjecture — I admit freely it is conjecture — therefore please don’t say I am claiming this as a fact).

Damon and Carlton have a history of more sophisticated scifi screenplay writing in my opinion, versus the Orci/Kurtzman team, and it might bring a fresh perspective and improved productivity to this long delayed activity.

50. florian - August 3, 2011

there’s a harsh orci bashing over at aicn for his cowboys vs aliens and about his writing skills in general. i guess it’s normal at aicn, right?

51. unhappy trekker - August 3, 2011

What exactly have these guys been doing besides posting planking pics on the net for all this time you cant keep blaming super 8 cowboys and aliens etc etc for the delay, I beleive they just dont have a coherent story just a vague outline of something that just hasnt been developed

52. Nemesis4909 - August 3, 2011

Thanks for nothing production team!

I am saying this purely as an emotional outburst and know I will be first in line when (if?) the damn thing is ever released but is anyone else tempted to just boycot it? I for one am fed up of these delays, excuses and false promises and I have half a mind to boycot anything this production team ever does again.

Does anyone else share that sentiment? If only from an outburst standpoint.

53. somethoughts - August 4, 2011

I wont pass judgement as they are human and they are doing their best to come up with the best sequel possible. Imagine they filmed a crap sequel ang got crushed by tdarkknightrises, aspiderman or avengers?

I prefer a quality epic film over a crappy one that is boring and lazy.

That being said, the star trek sequel better be awesome and give hardons to nerds and fans of movies.

54. Mike Thompson. - August 4, 2011

I hope I’m not on my last legs by then and miss it…….

55. trekprincess - August 4, 2011

Look they are taking their time with the sequel better do it right then rush out a film just to please all you whiny trek fans that can’t be patient

56. Bart - August 4, 2011

Give this project to Nick Meyer, it took them half the time to make Wrath of Khan and Undiscovered Country. And those were great movies.

57. captain_neill - August 4, 2011

Thinking about something Peter Guber said in the Batman 1989 DVD Documentary, delaying a film beyond it’s scheduled relaease date can also be a bad thing because it sows doubt into the film makers by the public and might make the public think the film is not going to be good.

These delays are making me think about this statement more as the longer it takes the less confident I get in these writers.

58. Chris M - August 4, 2011

Looking very much like it will be Summer 2013!!

59. Luke Sutton - August 4, 2011

I don’t think we’ve heard anything new or overly positive at all for about six months now. I’m usually the last to be impatient or rush something and yet I get a massive sense of lethargy from this production. Should this film be delayed until 2013, it will have lost absolutely all momentum and public conciousness that Star Trek 2009 generated.

60. MrPhil - August 4, 2011

I’d be happy to wait till summer 2013, if they shoot 2 films back to back, and release the next one in summer 2014.
That would make up for all the delays, would keep momentum up, and I personally loved that element to BTTF pt2, a self contained film with ties into the pt3 that came the next year.

There’s something about the holy trilogy (ST2-4) that made each film bigger than itself by being linked to the others – and I loved the intro recap to ST3&4.

61. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 4, 2011

#45 – “And, alas, Keachick, I’m still hoping for minimal romance in this thing… but that just may be a reflection of my cold, dead heart.”

Oh Jack. You never know what might happen, who you might meet between now and when the movie is released. It could be that you just have not met him yet. Of course, I’m only guessing. They do say, where there’s life, there’s hope… Anyway, that’s what I like to think.

62. MrPhil - August 4, 2011

My main concern with the next film, rather than the timing, is the direction the team takes. The first film was, at most critical, a very expensive fan film, with plenty of nods to what went before, some new elements, but mainly enough action and pace to grab the attention of a new audience. Apart from the clever Nimoy device, the story was almost a given to ensure the link to the previous Treks, and the potential future of this version.
That is perhaps a bit harsh, it did work on many levels.
I’d just like the next film to just have more thoughtfulness and grace – perhaps this will come through the characters growing older, and a little wiser. The best Trek for me, was about the family on the E, how they overcame obstacles, working together and knowing that, particularly with Kirk, Spock and McCoy, whatever they faced and whatever family type friction they had, each one would risk their own life to save one of the others. And there’s very few ongoing film franchises which cover that unrelated brother type relationship. Fewer yet set in space with cool fx!

Oh, and let’s have the score be a little more ST2&3, or even Super 8ish, than the ST2009 score, good though it was. Music just didn’t feel like a movie set in space to me…

63. somethoughts - August 4, 2011

#62

My fav score is the opening to the undiscovered country and startrek2009, tjat title sequence with the stone cut delta shield logo turning and lensflare was epic, both scores contrasted each other one was dark filled with mysteries and the other filled with youth, discovery and awesomeness

64. Victor Hugo - August 4, 2011

So, when they start the new movie, all the five years of the first FIVE YEAR MISSION will have passed.

That´s weird, because it enters the LOST YEARS territory, Spock would return to Vulcan for the Kohlinar training, Kirk would become a desk jockey admiral.

Shaky cameras and lensflares can´t help a desk jockey job look exciting. :P

65. trekprincess - August 4, 2011

Look guys they will make the film whenever that is is the question :/ honestly I wish they would make the damn film

66. StarTrekker - August 4, 2011

A FINAL deadline definitely needs to be set to force a timeline. Otherwise this could go on forever — oh, no deadline, great, we’ve got plenty of time. Oh, there is a deadline, yikes, I guess I better sit down and figure everything out.

Also have no clue why JJ won’t commit to directing. It’s pretty clear that Paramount has put everything into his hands and that’s why the delay (because of JJ and all of his other projects). I’m not sold on JJ directing, but at this point, it’ll have to be him or this delay will have been for nothing.

I hope they at least learn from this and if they do a third movie, set a reasonable timeframe and get it done (~2 years). If it’s another 4 years … they’re going to lose a lot of people I think.

67. Shaun - August 4, 2011

i am tired of being optimistic. i loved the previous film…and supported it as best i could with limited funds. the creative team’s cavalier attitude towards delivering a new film anytime soon is disheartening.

68. Christopher Roberts - August 4, 2011

Have the guys come by my house and I’ll help them out if they’re stuck. Too bad I’m thousands of miles away! :)

Aiming the film mostly at mainstream I have issues with. I was listening to Damon Lindelof’s commentary on First Contact (with AP from Trekmovie) and I was struck by how much he’d argue against doing because it’s purely for the fans. It’s a fine balance but as long as it works both ways – has deeper meaning if you choose to apply a little knowledge from one of the TV shows.

69. P Technobabble - August 4, 2011

Now, now, all you worriers and nay-sayers. Considering how far these guys have come in their careers, they know what they’re doing. I don’t doubt for a minute that they are working their collective butts off to give us a Trek movie we will love. Cut ‘em some slack.

70. Christopher Roberts - August 4, 2011

68. (cont) Okay, so they had to have a Nero character come in and fiddle with the canon after Romulus burned… but what next? Time to decide what parts of the old jigsaw puzzle you want to reintroduce and hammer back into a new shape. Hopefully the picture you’re slowly building won’t be identical to the way it had been before.

So God, fate, destiny or whatever has dictated the crew should be brought together sooner and less experienced than they were before Nero. Time healing itself doesn’t really lead us to think the Original Series would play out with a five year mission of adventures like those seen in the 60′s. Enough for some to start thinking keenly about fitting it back into the old canon again? In terms of “Oh well, the longer they delay it, the more it’ll be about the Lost Years.” The end of a five-year mission and leading into 1979′s Motion Picture.

Whatever the delay, I’m still pretty much of the opinion any sequel would have to set not long after events in the first. Or hop around with a non-linear narrative – flashbacks and the like, if they have show an interval of many years.

71. Chris Cape - August 4, 2011

Man with the amount of excuses these guys are pumping out about how they want to take as much time as possible to get this movie right and not rush things it’d better be a billion dollar blockbuster.

72. Sebastian S. - August 4, 2011

And if the first sequel takes this long? That pretty much puts the kibosh on a third movie of this series. The cast will have moved on by then.

I realize the first movie series (with the TOS cast) had it’s ups and downs, but I really miss the days when Star Trek had a more-or-less dedicated cast and crew in place to focus on making Star Trek films their priority. I realize this new ‘supreme court’ has other projects on it’s mind (sorry, but ‘Super 8′ and ‘Cowboys and Aliens’ just weren’t all that, IMO), but I just miss having a team (Harve Bennett and co) that were committed to just making Star Trek movies.

Harve Bennett did a couple of TV ventures during the ’80s (none very successful), but he and his team always seemed ready to punch out a new ST movie when the deadline loomed…

73. Pizza - August 4, 2011

MJ You said it all.

The problem was JJ wanted to do some stupid movie called Super 8. Notice the team is now working once JJ was done his thing. Paramount should have picked another producer/director 2 years ago. Guess what, we would be watching a movie in 2011 or 2012 at he latest if they made that call 2 years ago.

74. SoonerDave - August 4, 2011

@66

A deadline was set. It became obvious it was going to be missed. Paramount tapped them on the shoulder about it, and when they said “sorry, not gonna happen,” Paramount backed down. Now, the official deadline is “whenever.”

So much for deadlines.

Reminds me of Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy….”I love deadlines…I love the whooshing sound they make as they go flying by” (quote approximate).

Again, its just unfortunate that Trek loses out in the current pecking order. At this point, I’m not entirely convinced a 2nd movie will, in fact, ever happen.

75. BaronByng - August 4, 2011

I can’t believe how people are reading way more into Orci and Kurtzman’s comments than they actually said. Nothing about script-completeness, all they said was that they didn’t have a firm start date.

We live in a world where we achieve great things, but corralling masses of people together to do them takes time to build up momentum, and operations have many moving parts. 200 people can be ready to fly on a 747 but are grounded due to weather or some part not passing visual inspection or the catering truck being late.

Organizing a creative endeavour like a big-budget sci-fi / action movie means you’re trying to coordinate the availability of at the very least hundreds of people, and in the extended post-production phase, upwards of a thousand when you count all the different VFX teams.

And these people aren’t just sitting around waiting for JJ to press a magic button. When the script is complete, they just don’t show up and start shooting with a Handycam. Sets have to be prepared, locations scouted, costumes fitted and made, cameras and lights booked, actors booked, crew booked, labs / editing suites booked, catering, trailers, all the legal paperwork, contractual issues, production accounting… and the shooting schedule, which is often out-of-order, has to be created to accommodate all of this.

And the crew isn’t sitting around either. This is their craft, their day job. They have bills to pay. They have other projects, other clients, careers.

What I see is that, despite fantastic odds, and the pressure to just turn out another slab o’franchise sequel, they actually want to make a movie that means something, and you have to fight for that. And that takes time.

I’m willing to give them that time.

For the people saying that James Cawley could turn out a new movie in shorter time? His company’s movies are a volunteer effort, they don’t have the backing of a studio to budget for time, crew and equipment; nor do they have ILM’s human resources and room-sized server farms to crunch out the graphics. If I recall correctly, it takes Mr. Cawley’s company something like several months to a year to turn out a single episode of TV-quality fanTrek; preproduction, principal photography and post included.

Now compare that to the infinitely more complicated project that Paramount and Bad Robot are doing. If it slips by a few months to a year, that’s a frakking miracle.

76. Trek Nerd Central - August 4, 2011

Don’t work fast, boys. Work well!

77. Barb - August 4, 2011

Several thoughts:
No. 6. I’d like to see Cawley on the team, but that’ll never happen.
No. 20 I’m sure they’d say 2013 if they were sure they could get it out by then. Judging from the news that it’s Paramount that’s trying to drive these guys to do this, (wow, a surprise to me…) I’m guessing that Paramount is worried that it’s not going to be ready by Summer 2013. Remember, originally this film was to be released THIS YEAR, with the third film in 2013. Then they agreed to let JJAbrams have another year, and delayed it to 2012. Now they are facing a hard fact that it’s not going to be out until AT LEAST 2013. They have options on the actors for three films, but only if they are all done IN FIVE YEARS. So this delay effectively releases those actors after two films unless Abrams shoots the next two back-to-back, which, given the enthusiasm he has already shown for the project… don’t hold your breath.
59. LUKE I love your Star Trek Unity (for those unfamiliar with it, he has his own very extensive fan series). See http://startrekreviewed.blogspot.com/2009/06/90.html . This is why DC comics and Marvel hired letterheads to revive their franchises, people who love those franchises, not geniuses. Guess which franchises are making more money, Trek, run by Hollywood’s geniuses, or Superman and Spiderman, run by fans? I’d love to see you work with some of these guys and actually do something with Trek.

78. ML31 - August 4, 2011

I’d echo the “don’t rush it” sentiment but I think it is obvious to all that is not ever going to be a problem.

79. 1984 - August 4, 2011

The ones who brought Trek back were overcome by their own greed and ego.

80. Captain Hackett - August 4, 2011

Patience is a virtue, my fellow Trekkers.

81. Shannon Nutt - August 4, 2011

I’m now at the point where I’m waiting for Paramount to fire these guys and turn things over to Ron Moore.

82. John from Cincinnati - August 4, 2011

Wasn’t there an article on this website a couple of months ago that said the producers were already prepping the movie based on a 70 page outline submitted by the writers?

Something is not Kosher in Vaudville.

83. boomer13 - August 4, 2011

Rushing. No Rushing..by the time they finish the next film they will have to reboot the whole franchise again.

84. Desstruxion - August 4, 2011

Is there an R. D. Moore option?

85. Alex Rosenzweig - August 4, 2011

#24- “as much as i dislike his vision of Trek, Cawley atleast can get his vision on paper and infront of a camera alot faster than 2 and half years.
and on a shoestring budget at that.”

This is somewhat off-topic, but I’m curious. What do you dislike so much about “Phase II”? It’s always seemed to me to be very loyal to Classic Trek, which is one of the things I like about it.

I wish that Abrams and co. had been half as serious about making something that true to Trek.

#84 – The Ron Moore I would have trusted to take the project on seems to have disappeared sometime after production stopped on the Pern TV series, and metamorphosed into the man who whines about continuity and made nuBSG. Today’s Ron Moore is a guy I have much less faith in to do great Trek than the Ron Moore from the ’90s.

86. Brevard - August 4, 2011

You know, I just saw COWBOYS AND ALIENS. What a crappy movie. And the biggest problem? The writing. I can’t believe that it took 5 writers for this film and it was still sooo bad. It made no sense with plot holes galore. Again, it was all the writing. This does not bode well for the ST sequel if these guys are writing. I stand by some of my earlier posts. ST has been delayed because these folks don’t know what to do with the franchise. Heaven help us if they are putting the same energy into ST that they’ve put into their other projects, like COWBOYS AND ALIENS, TRANSFORMERS, etc.

87. Shannon Nutt - August 4, 2011

#85 That’s a silly comment about Ron Moore.

Besides, how do we know which Orci & Kurtzman we’ll be getting? Will we be getting the guys who wrote the last Star Trek, or the ones that wrote Transformers 1 & 2, Cowboys & Aliens, and Eagle Eye. Aside from Star Trek, their screenplay record isn’t very good. They’ve written some pretty lousy movies.

88. Alex Prewitt - August 4, 2011

“As fast as we can.” Right. They’ve had more than enough time to get this right, up, and running. Paramount knew a long time ago they wanted a sequel. The so called “Supreme Court” have been putzing around with this for too long. How many times over the last year have we been having these same discussions: “We’re working on it, we’re tossing around ideas, JJ’s gonna look at it–blah blah-blah. It seems like they have been stalling. I’m as hungry for this new movie to come out as any fan of the first movie. I didn’t like a lot of what was going from a design standpoint–but I believe that the essence of what attracted me to Trek so many years ago is still there. I am rooting for this cast–they are great across the board.
I truly hope it is worth the wait.

89. braxus - August 4, 2011

I think the deception on how the writing team is coming along is what is wrangling most people here, plus the fact they are having difficulty getting a script done at all. I say they should get Nick Meyer back in to finish this up. I don’t have a lot of faith in how its going at the moment. There have been no posts saying “We’re almost done”, but post saying “We’re on it” which basically says they are no further ahead.

90. bintrepid81 - August 4, 2011

These are the same guys that wrote Transformers right? It didn’t take them this long to write a script for those movies so how does this translate to me? Simple. Its not a 1st tier movie in their minds as many of you have said. Granted Transformers made more money than Star Trek ’09 but on its own Star Trek did pretty well so wouldn’t that be an incentive to get the next one out there? It sounds like these guys aren’t motivated enough to get this thing made in a timely fashion which does lead to the option that they are not confident in what they are writing which is not a good sign. These guys need to seriously get together, lock themselves away and do no more interviews or other projects until the script is in hand and ready to film otherwise they continue to piss off the fans with comments in this article. Rushing?!?!? Hardly!

91. SoonerDave - August 4, 2011

@89

No disrespect, but we need to get off this nonsensical Nick Meyer business. He’s not coming back to Trek. He hasn’t directed a feature film in 20 years. Do people who keep bringing this idea to the table actually think his pacing and style would match even remotely with the amphetamine-like pacing that Abrams put in ST09?

Everyone just needs to take a collective breath. Paramount gambled on getting Trek done with the new supreme court, and the franchise lost. We, as fans, have lost. I think we need to recalibrate our expectations for one more film, and just hope for the best going forward.

92. Commander K - August 4, 2011

All that momentum from ST11 will be gone if they release in 2013. Stupid stupid stupid paramount…putting money and priority to films people will forget in 2 months.

Really really disappointed with this.

93. Dee - lvs moon' surface - August 4, 2011

MUAMUAMUAMUAMUAMUA…. I’m crying a little bit …

…. OH I’m already OK now…LOL

:-) :-)

94. Andrews - August 4, 2011

This movie is never coming out. ;____;

95. Michael Hall - August 4, 2011

One prediction I will make: I’d be very surprised indeed if Trek 2012/2013/20?? turns out to be half so dramatic, amusing, and damn-all entertaining as this very thread. Nick Meyer, James Cawley, actors’ contracts, betrayal of the fanbase–I only wish discussions involving the nation’s debt ceiling were so creative and yet tasteful. Trekmovie posters, give yourselves a firm pat on the back: you’ve set a bar that members of the “Supreme Court” will have to strive mightily to reach, particularly in light of their fairly modest talents. Good show! :-)

96. Edgar - August 4, 2011

In what universe can anything regarding this long, LONG-delayed sequel be described as “rushed”? How incredibly insulting.

97. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 4, 2011

“Beaks: Rushing for a date always feels like a bad idea.
Kurtzman: It can be a very bad idea. Especially on TREK…
Orci: Rushing means more expensive, and that’s a question for our benefactors, who have to decide how bad they want it in terms of that kind of stuff. You can finish stuff [quickly], but it means more people working simultaneously. So those are, in a way, production things that aren’t just based on time.”

The word “rushing” was brought up by the interviewer, not initially by Orci or Kurtzman. They merely agreed with the interviewer and then explained why it might be a bad idea. As Orci noted, it is up to the “benefactors”, ie Paramount, as to how and when they want the movie to be made. On another thread, I think, the word “overtime” for many of the post-production crew in particular was mentioned if the movie was to make a November/December 2012 deadline. It is also possible that the studio may have to take on more staff which would mean greater labour costs. For Paramount it would be about (for the most part) higher production costs versus (longterm) expected revenue. K/O have said that this is doable, however the question is whether it will be done.

Personally I hope they choose this option. For one thing it may provide employment (if only temporary) for more people in Hollywood with the appropriate skills…

“Rushing” was an unfortunate choice of word in this context, but one used by Beaks, the interviewer, not by Orci or Kurtzman. From what I see on the videos posted here and there, all the interviews etc seem to be always done at lightning speed, everybody appears to be in a rush to get to the next thing and in the way they speak etc, anyway and I’m not sure why. The interviewers and interviewees alike all seem to be on something. I doubt that this is true, but they just come across this way.

98. NuFan - August 4, 2011

Don’t cry little girls. Admit it. You weren’t planning to say anything nice about Star Trek 2 regardless of when it’s released. You will just have to keep hating on the first one for the next two years.

99. Enterprisingguy - August 4, 2011

@ 98 NuFan

There are plenty of people who admit to loving the movie despite having qualms about some of the elements of the writing/story.

Is it so wrong to point out that you didn’t buy the fact that Spock would really waste a shuttlepod and jettison a person (likely to his death) down to a Star Wars wannabe planet rather than putting him in the brig? Should Spock be charged with attempted murder? Or the fact that out of the whole planet Kirk miraculously lands within walking distance of two other main characters?

If you found that sort of sloppy storytelling sufficient then that’s great. But just because some of us wish for better doesn’t make us haters. We just have higher standards.

100. Hugh Hoyland - August 4, 2011

Just think, in an A/U Star Trek 2 has already been released and has blown our A/U minds! Dang our luck on being born in THIS universe! :]

101. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 4, 2011

#99 The problem is that I don’t necessarily think that this is sloppy story writing. It is about presenting a perspective on life that most of us may not have considered possible or would rather deny such possibilities and prefer to default back to calling such writing “sloppy”.

102. Lang-Lang1701 - August 4, 2011

Work faster, and at least give us a coming soon teaser like the building the Enterprise trailer from the last film.

103. Phil - August 4, 2011

It’s occured to me that given the way Orci & Kurtzman tend to answer questions with non-answers that there will always be careers in politics to fall back on if the Hollywood gig starts to wane a bit.

104. Christopher Roberts - August 5, 2011

103. There would be zero chance of them of talking down the economy…

…and finally, a definitive answer about who killed JFK by 2013.

105. ptfpete - August 5, 2011

O.M.G. We (Trekkers) have been accused of many things, but passion is the one thing the naysayers cannot attack. We hold true the possibility of the utopian paradise that Gene Roddenberry had envisioned in 1966, and celebrate that vison by our devotion to the movies, the collecting and the promotion of a “lifestyle” (if you will.) But being angry and threatening is NOT where we need to go with this. There are far more critical things on our table to deal with before the movie comes out. For instance….who should we persecute most…Orci and Kurtzman, or the twisted minds that brought us the new Smurf’s Movie. Now THERE is something that makes one question our values in the universe…and WOW…did I just ramble on or what…gotta lay off that darned caffeine!!!

106. Steamblade - August 5, 2011

They are welcome to never finish it and CBS can hire some writers who understand character and plot.

107. Michael Hall - August 5, 2011

@ Keachick #101–

“#99 The problem is that I don’t necessarily think that this is sloppy story writing. It is about presenting a perspective on life that most of us may not have considered possible or would rather deny such possibilities and prefer to default back to calling such writing “sloppy”.”

Okay, I’m genuinely curious. What “perspective on life” would that be?

108. David B - August 5, 2011

How much I miss the years when the studios actually had a backbone and said right I want you and you to write Star Trek.

It’s coming out Summer… you have 6 months to write the script. We will choose a director when done.

make sure you don’t leak it.

End of story.

109. Spock - August 5, 2011

The inability to provide sufficient explication for delay on this project would suggest an answer.

110. Lt. Bailey - August 5, 2011

This is sad indeed…. I see it coming out in 2013 or 2014 now.

111. Gary Makin - August 5, 2011

The Amazing Spiderman 2 already has a release date of May 2, 2014… Which will probably sooner than Star Trek 2.

Sorry Bob, I couldn’t resist ;)

112. Gary Makin - August 5, 2011

* probably be sooner.

113. Gary Makin - August 5, 2011

@Enterprisingguy – Delta Vega has a Federation outpost on it, so your “sending Kirk to his death” point makes no sense.

Yeah, Spock is going to care about “wasting a shuttlepod” (you mean escape pod) after Vulcan had just been destroyed, and with other Federation planets still in jeopardy!

And TOS had ice planets before Star Wars. Did you mind the ice planet in TUC?

By the way, extremely unlikely coincidences do actually happen in real life. This is a sci-fi movie with destiny as a main theme.

114. Michael Hall - August 5, 2011

“This is a sci-fi movie with destiny as a main theme.”

Sorry to disagree–but no, it isn’t. The idea that before Nero’s incursion the lives of Trek ’09′s characters were different (i.e., as we the audience had previously known them on the 1960s series and feature films) was addressed in one line of dialogue by Uhura–hardly the stuff of a work’s theme, main or otherwise.

Personally, I consider the concept of “character is destiny” to be pretty threadbare in any case, but will allow that it could be workable basis for an SF movie about time travel that was genuinely interested in exploring ideas, as opposed to tit-grabbing, Mickey Mouse hands and rad explosions. Unfortunately, Trek ’09 just wasn’t that movie.

115. Desstruxion - August 5, 2011

A Ron D. Moore Trek sequel would be done with a new BSG feel. The hardware and characters would be believable. The ship would get dirty and worn during battles. Uniforms would be functional (no pj’s). Scotty wouldn’t have a pet Ewok.

116. dmduncan - August 5, 2011

Well if there is any single theme repeating throughout the entire movie it is that the choices we make define who we are, not that we are destined to be this or that. That might seem like a generic theme capable of applying to any movie except that it plays off our remembrance of who the characters were in another time and place, distinguished by the differences between that time and this one, so it really is specific to this movie.

When I watch ST.09 I really feel the depth of that other universe it references, which makes the world of ST.09 kin to that other world and sharing its depth as a member of the family of events I recall in TOS. That’s a power it could not have if I saw it as a stand alone and unrelated movie to the world of TOS. So it’s a credit to the film that I do NOT view it that way, that it fits successfully as a big budget episode into that world. I feel Kirk’s and Spock’s losses more sharply because I see them as the same characters I am familiar with, and because it does fit so well it does not have the burden of trying to be the most all encompassingly perfect apology for all Star Trekkian past mistakes on TV and in the movies squeezed into two hours and six minutes we ever saw.

It isn’t the superhero of Star Trek movies doing all manner of superhuman things all by itself. It’s a big budget piece of a much larger puzzle. It’s a team player, not a superstar loner. And yes, it’s hella fun too!

117. Gary Makin - August 6, 2011

@114 Whoops, I mistyped. I meant as a main theme, not the main theme.

118. Gary Makin - August 6, 2011

@Michael Hall – Kirk did plenty if tit-grabbing in the series (off camera, but he was clearly getting laid).

Mickey Mouse hands? My feet once swelled up to almost that size for real.

Rad explosions? The previous Trek movies and shows had rad explosions too.

119. Gary Makin - August 6, 2011

@Desstruxion – There were short aliens played by dwarf actors in Insurrection. Nobody said a word about that. Because Berman and Frakes never mentioned Star Wars in interviews like Abrams and Co.

If Ron Moore had written Trek 09, it probably would’ve been rewritten by other people, like every other film he’s been involved with, bar Generations and FC. Moore doesn’t have a great track record in movies.

120. popearth - August 6, 2011

OK.. memo to the team writing this… let history be your guide.
The Dark Knight had the Joker… this is bigger… if history is the guide the most evil villian can only be hitler.. he used technology to unleash hell on earth for populations… in your case star systems of the federtion.. in history it was 2 wars on WW2… Europe and the Pacific… and if u know history it was the Enterprise that broke and led the fight in the pacific.. Roddenbury picked that ship for his starship name because of it… you have the elements for the a guide… forget the gf’s and the silly stuff… world wars bring out the best and worst in people… add a touch of Shakesprean heroes which u have… and put it together… look at the pacific war… u can even get 2 movies out of this if u do it right …. it was technology that ended the war in the pacifc… the horror of war is the phrase from Apocolypse Now… you have your Nimitz in Christopher Pike… your Halsey in Kirk… etc…
u need pure evil on a mass scale … watch the history or military chanels… these are still bewilderiing topics of evil hilter and tojo.. mix it up… do it right… youll earn billions for paramount… and even academy award territory… its called an epic… you have all the pieces… and you have all the history and talent to make it work… do it….

121. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 7, 2011

#107 I have no idea what the writers’ beliefs and motivations were for writing the script the way they did, other than making a movie, of course.

However, for me, it is a question of belief and perspective. I believe in the concept of a sort of cosmic karma in terms of energies attracting or repelling. In TOS prime universe Kirk and Spock over time formed a very strong bond of friendship and love. That constitutes a very specific kind of energy, and in their case, we could say an extremely strong energy stream. Though they may be separated by millions of miles, even light years, that bond/energy would still be as strong as if they were in a room next door. Prime Kirk dies and prime Spock lives on and with him, his memories and feelings (which are part of the energy stream) and of course, we know that Vulcans have emotions, in many ways, stronger than human emotions, so we were told by Sarek in Star Trek 09.

Prime Spock then finds himself in an alternate universe and guess who is there, none other than the younger version of himself and of Kirk. It is inevitable that Spock prime would meet the younger Kirk, and probably sooner than later, due to the strong karmic attraction between the two beings. The same goes for him meeting his younger self, which is, of course, what happened. This also explains how the younger Kirk and younger Spock meet and the intensity they continued to share, starting with them being at odds over the KM test. None of the three would have been fully conscious of this intense energy stream pulling them towards one another, except possibly older Spock who may have had some kind of inkling.

Less intense, but similar stuff was happening between Kirk and Bones McCoy.

All this does not mean that they have to do everything they did before or necessarily will the same events occur. It is about similar energies/consciousness, whatever you want to call it, drawing some people together and not others maybe. Of course, we are only aware of this universe so we don’t know of any other situations or possibilities. Probably just as well…which is why Spock prime should keep “mum” about what he knows about the prime universe, which is no longer part of the alternate universe anyway…

“There is more in heaven and earth than is dreamed of in your philosophy”.

122. No One Khan Hear You - August 9, 2011

On the bright side, this delay gives us more time to argue on Trekmovie forums about how these people should be spending their time. You know, like they aren’t professionals who live and breathe this stuff.

Also – #14: “Hire Hans Zimmer for the sequels Music Score.” – Not to hate on Zimmer or anything, but Giacchino’s score was one of the best parts of the 2009 Trek for me.

123. social bookmark software - August 22, 2011

Video”s Not Working… http://ow.ly/69GLq?e=577l66

124. ThePhaige - October 13, 2011

Sounds like writers block to me. Just sayin…

Im a highly creative type person and I know when things are flat, these are the very same things I say. We go from saying I have a Dec deadline! To saying man ya just cant rush these things…which is true. If it is penned already, there is no doubt an apprehension you can cut with a katana here. Perhaps the script is not so INSPIRED as the first and that just happens, not to mention the economic conditions were facing etc… much to ponder here. Part of the fun of the first which is lost now… was rediscovering the original charm with new actors and a new look which they did…I argue brilliantly… now they need something for them to do that people want to see besides a re tread of burnt old ideas.

I understand and I forgive em.

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