New (Different) Official Synopsis Released For Star Trek Into Darkness | TrekMovie.com
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New (Different) Official Synopsis Released For Star Trek Into Darkness December 18, 2012

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Spoilers,Star Trek Into Darkness , trackback

A few weeks ago TrekMovie reported on the release of the official synopsis for Star Trek Into Darkness. As part of their recent promotional push for the film, Paramount has issued a new "one sheet" summary of the film with more info, and notably a new (and different) synopsis for the film. See what is new and different below but warning there are spoilers.

 

New Official Synopsis for Star Trek Into Darkness – With some key differences

Paramount has released a new "one sheet" summary of Star Trek Into Darkness for the press. Unlike the previously released synopsis, this sheet includes cast and creative team credits, release date info which is typical for all of their ‘one sheet’ press summaries. What is of interest is how the new ‘one sheet’ also includes new synopsis for the film, which is different than the synopsis released a few weeks ago. While it is not unusual for film synopses to change over time and with different marketing materials, at TrekMovie nothing is too small for us to analyze.

Here is the new synopsis from Paramount…

SYNOPSIS:

In Summer 2013, director J.J. Abrams will deliver an explosive action thriller that takes Star Trek Into Darkness.

In the wake of a shocking act of terror from within their own organization, the crew of The Enterprise is called back home to Earth. In defiance of regulations and with a personal score to settle, Captain Kirk leads his crew on a manhunt to capture an unstoppable force of destruction and bring those responsible to justice.

As our heroes are propelled into an epic chess game of life and death, love will be challenged, friendships will be torn apart, and sacrifices must be made for the only family Kirk has left: his crew.

The first and last paragraphs are actually exactly the same, however Paramount replaced two paragraphs from the original synopsis with a new single middle paragraph. While similar, there are some key differences between those previous two paragraphs and this new one:

Stay tuned to TrekMovie.com for all the news about Star Trek Into Darkness.

Comments

1. NCC-73515 - December 18, 2012

Qo’noS.
‘Those’ are those in those tubes, I guess…

2. Deamer - December 18, 2012

More clear than ever that this is NOT Khan… :-(

“… within their own organization” = not Khan

3. BulletInTheFace - December 18, 2012

I guess they realized the first PR guy was an embarrassingly bad writer.

4. DeflectorDishGuy - December 18, 2012

@2

In the name of Q, I hope you are right!!

It’d certainly be nice if it was a familiar character though, Gary Mitchell or something like that.

5. Chancellor Gowron - December 18, 2012

5- Unless Khan was woken up much earlier in this time, and joined starfleet using the John Harrison alias.

6. Craiger - December 18, 2012

Could it just be that John Harrison doesn’t what Starfleet has become and he decides to take over?

7. DeflectorDishGuy - December 18, 2012

Any word on what that areyouthe1701.com site is supposed to be?

8. Chancellor Gowron - December 18, 2012

I was responding to 2, not 5.

9. Craiger - December 18, 2012

Maybe Harrison starts a coupe within Starfleet?

10. Legend of Link - December 18, 2012

I’m just glad “detonated the fleet” has been omitted. What was that? Definitely a much more fluent and grammatically correct synopsis. Like it!

11. David - December 18, 2012

Section 31?

12. MORN SPEAKS - December 18, 2012

I love how this movie seems to be pointing to present day parallels of the dangers and benefits of genetic engineering. I can’t wait to see it!

Hopefully, we won’t have to wait another 4 years to see the third installment since the 50th anniversary is in 2016.

13. John W. - December 18, 2012

#9: A coupe? Like the USS-Ford Escort?

14. John W. - December 18, 2012

I think Harrison is some kind of augment, or at least a geneticist. I think he infiltrates Star Fleet somehow — possibly with the help of the guy with the dying child. Perhaps the guy with the dying child has access to the frozen augments?

15. Jim Nightshade - December 18, 2012

Still could be Khan or an Augment anyway…..ya know Khan but NOT Khan…But if Cumber. is within starfleet is he really starfleet or did he just get into starfleet to exact revenge by assuming an identity….still think the Father of the sick girl could be legit starfleet who sells his soul to heal his daughter so he cooperates with Harrisons unknown agenda….once inside he could have recruited others in starfleet using his influence powers to do so…Maybe the guy in the ponytail leaving the storage area with the cryos is Harrison and KHAN!!! Only seen from back after revival? hehehe

16. Dunsel Report - December 18, 2012

Digging the TNG “Conspiracy”-esque vibe.

17. Craiger - December 18, 2012

#13 – Sorry I shouldn’t have added the e at the end? I think I type to fast. LOL.

18. Craiger - December 18, 2012

Or the question mark at the end of my post #16. LOL.

19. Danny Boy - December 18, 2012

It’s better written, that’s for the sure. The first synopsis was clunky at best; it felt like an intern wrote it and tried too hard.

20. Jim Nightshade - December 18, 2012

See John W Nerdy minds think alike….Ive been thinking that too and in fact When I was just posting that you were also posting so I didnt even read yours but I have mentioned this in a couple of the other anaylysis threads….a couple days ago—

21. Craiger - December 18, 2012

I meant post #17. Man I type too fast.

22. Riker's Beard - December 18, 2012

Red Shirt for a Mr Pike?

23. aligee - December 18, 2012

just saw this on Yahoo UK site
http://uk.movies.yahoo.com/blogs/movie-editors/exclusive-benedict-cumberbatch-talks-terrorist-star-trek-darkness-231459433.html

24. Gilberto - December 18, 2012

#3 nailed it!

25. MV84 - December 18, 2012

`Added “bring those responsible to justice” to Kirk’s mission. Note it says “those” implying John Harrison is not acting alone`

`those` could be Cumberbatch and Clarke!!
On the picture with the tubes, you see two people leaving the room. I think they are Clarke (grey) and Cumberbatch (white).

26. NCC-73515 - December 18, 2012

I think those tube-people are actually Vulcans…

27. Hawaii - December 18, 2012

From Yahoo UK:

He describes Harrison thus:

“He is FED INTO the crew of the Enterprise and creates a lot of shadow play between Kirk and Spock…”

28. Craiger - December 18, 2012

What if their are no genetic experiments at all? What if Harrison is just a regular Starfleet officer?

29. Hawaii - December 18, 2012

@23

Sorry!!! Credit goes to you!!!

30. Aphelion - December 18, 2012

Oh, not helping to get the plot. But I hope one thing: that they throw Spock’s pon farr into the game…Please, oh please!!! I would love it!!

31. nano - December 18, 2012

Something to considered:
In the original Space Seed Khan was exiled perhaps in this timeline he’s imprisoned or executed by Pike. Therefore John could be Khans NO #2 or easier yet his child either by natural means or engineered.
However, I’m guessing Space Seed never occur-re’s in this timeline. Allowing for a different engineered leader to emerge John, he could be a descendant of another failed Eugenics ruler. Remember Khan only rules 1/25 of the globe.

32. J - December 18, 2012

Ok, that synopsis did it, now I’m sure it’s Khan! It’s so obvious now!

(troll level: intermediate)

33. Mr Lirpa - December 18, 2012

Ooh, the Botany Bay is found by another crew, Harrison (Enterprise crew member from Space seed) is on that ship. Khan is revived, takes the ship that finds him and takes Harrison’s Identity… The tubes are Khan’s crew… Meanwhile, Khan returns to Earth with a long term plan for domination…

Hmm, Maybe I’m over thinking this and should just wait until May!

34. Robman007 - December 18, 2012

@31….actually, he was ruler of over 1/4 the planet….of course from 1992-1996, that is….everything BAD in TOS’s past happened in 1996

35. Craiger - December 18, 2012

#33 – Wouldn’t Starfleet know what Harrison looks like?

36. MV84 - December 18, 2012

@ 26. NCC-73515

`I think those tube-people are actually Vulcans…`

One (grey coat) has dark skin and the other (white coat) has white skin. I don´t think both are Vulcans.

In the first 9 minutes you see Harrison making contact with Clarke, saying to him he could save his daughter. So maybe Clarke is going to help Harisson, because Harisson is the only one who could save his daughter.

So, I think it could be Harisson showing Clarke his work (the tubes)

37. Avi - December 18, 2012

I think Cumby is NOT someone known to Kirk at the beginning of the movie. The personal score to settle is due to his killing Pike during that attack on a meeting using a small ship. This attack occurs very shortly after a heart to heart that Kirk and Pike have about Kirk breaking regulations to save Spock from the volcano.

Enraged by the death of his mentor and the attacks on his planet, he sets off to hunt this guy down…

(I can’t wait to see if this prediction turns out to be accurate. If it does, this comment can be proof that I’m a genius. :P)

38. R. Banks - December 18, 2012

@25-

I was thinking the same thing. I could see the Clarke character having to do some terrible thing for Harrison in exchange for Harrison saving his daughter.

It fits the overall theme of “Is there anything you would not do for your family?”.

Harrison needs some sort of classified inside information on Starfleet in order to plan and carry out his terrorist goals, but he has no access.

Harrison approaches a man (Clarke) who he knows can get him what he needs, a man who would do absolutely anything right or wrong to save his dying daughter.

Clarke makes a deal with the devil.

39. Phil - December 18, 2012

More emphisis on terrorism might suggest that enhanced people are sleeper agents – the question is why? I’d have to assume that there was a turn of events in Federation society that caused these agents to be activated…and the more I think about it, wasn’t 23rd century man supposed to be beyond this sort of thing?

40. Robman007 - December 18, 2012

#37….also, the Enterprise will get heavily damaged during the attack, so he has multiple reasons for wanting revenge. Pike and the Enterprise.

41. The Sinfonian - December 18, 2012

Well, Khan does like his henchmen to start with “J”. We had Joaquin in TOS, we had Joachim in TWOK. Now we have Johann/John. Wonder if Khan also has a Jacomo, James, Jordan, Jazanna, and all the other J’s the Duggar family can think of. Yes, it would be like “19 Henchmen and Counting”, coming soon on TLC. A reality show about a family of eugenically created clones hidden in the 1970s, and how their family life is when they finally are awakened in the 2240’s and 2250’s.

I am Jim Bob Noonien Khan!

42. Mr Lirpa - December 18, 2012

#35 probably but using his superior intellect he could change the federation databases/records for new images, DNA samples etc…

Yep, i’m over thinking…

43. It's Khan - December 18, 2012

Well, “Those” doesn’t necessarily mean more than one person, in English when one does not specify to whom one is talking to/or about, (aka when the subject is indefinite) it’s usual the use of “them”, “their”, “those” etc.

As in:
– “Whoever exploded my ship will pay with their life.”
– “We’ll make sure to make those responsible for this explosion will pay with their life.”
– “I don’t know who exploded this ship but I’d like to congratulate them!”

44. Garth Faction - December 18, 2012

It still could be Khan, and Clarke’s character would be the one who does something which brings Kirk back for all we know. We are assuming it is “John Harrison” initially.

Still, it could be — my favorite choice– Garth. Still works with him on so many levels.

45. I Am Morg Not Eymorg - December 18, 2012

I think Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof are cherry picking elements from past episodes and not entirely from TOS, rather than taking on a entire story whole hog and revising it.

Specially three sets of two part episodes from the 4th season I see possible elements of so far.

“Cold Station 12″ &”The Augments”, “Affliction” & “Divergence”, and “Demons” and “Terra Prime”. Which in turn those episodes have connections to the TOS episodes “Space Seed” (Khan’s original appearance), and “The Savage Curtain” where we learn about a historical figure named Col. Green.

We know that part of Into Darkness takes place on the Klingon home world Qo’noS. And the Klingons tied into the whole eugenics augment thing in the episodes “Affliction” and “Divergence”. In fact those episodes finally answered the Klingon appearance change from TOS and TAS and The Motion Picture and thereafter.

Also the episodes “Demons” and “Terra Prime” introduced a xenophobic faction of humanity wanting to “purify” the Earth/Federation of aliens. This faction was led by the wealthy John Frederick Paxton, who just so happens to have been played by Peter Weller. Who also happens to be cast in Into Darkness as a wealthy businessman. So I maintain Weller may well play either the aged Paxton or one of his heirs. And Cumberbatch is his perfect human John Harrison, leading a small army of fellow augments, out to further the Paxton agenda.

Or not. We shall see.

46. Dee - lvs moon' surface - December 18, 2012

So maybe Harrison was a friend of Captain Kirk… perhaps??? ;-) :-)

47. martin - December 18, 2012

Seems less likely that it is Khan.

Still very possible it is Sybok.

and so is Winona and Sam killed, or is Jim just estranged from them and that is why it says it is his only family left?

Carol is supposed to be part of the solution, so it doesn’t seem likely that she is dispatched in the initial terror on Earth. Is possibly one of these other GFs of Kirk killed?

Also, in the trailer, is the Klingon Ship chasing the Captains Yacht? Sure looks like it!

48. Craiger - December 18, 2012

I would have like to have seen Kirk’s Mom and Brother on the bridge of the Enterprise seeing Jim in command.

49. 8 of 12 - December 18, 2012

“JJ Abrams will deliver an explosive action thriller”.

…VOMIT.

I seriously hope there is more to this than HERRDERRDERRRR-EXPLOSIONS!! a la Transformers.

50. Yanks - December 18, 2012

Hmmm… we still could have Clarke as the bad guy played by Peter Weller?

Could it be that Cumby is working with Kirk to battle Clarke?

51. what's the point - December 18, 2012

I can’t understand people that say that any of that doesn’t fit with Khan.

To think of these people will give me an extra thing to be satisfied about when the movie comes out.

LLAP

52. Yanks - December 18, 2012

Or Weller could be playing Garth?

Still lots of options.

@ 45. I Am Morg Not Eymorg – December 18, 2012

With the Klingons in the mix, I’ve always thought we might be getting some Klingon Augments. Nice post.

53. razzo - December 18, 2012

@45 I like your angle. Also I mostly agree with all you said. Except I think J.Harrison will turn out to be really Khan.

I’m not sure about Weller’s character, though. We’re missing some info on this, enough to rule out some other possibilities.

But I’d really like it to be Paxton.

54. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 18, 2012

Re: the idea of augments, genetic engineering, the notion of making superior humans (physically and mentally) –
I was given for my birthday a DVD of a professional orchestra, choir and soloists performing the Requiem by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart (1756-1791). After watching it, I had to seriously ask myself – just what is so special about these Star Trek augments, Khan and so forth? So – Khan, John Harrison (ie if he is one) and co. may have more muscle power, so they may be able to figure out things quicker, and clearly know how to control and kill people, destroy stuff…

However, when I compare these characters’ antics and motivations, they pale when I think of what one very sick, dying man was able to compose with the help of his student assistant, Sussmeyer – he took dictation). The Requiem Mass (K. 626) is one of the most famous of all musical works and rightly so. It is just one sublime beautiful melody following another, with power, energy, flow, fragility, so sensitively balanced and simplicity itself… How can these “Khans” compare in mental abilities to that of someone like Mozart. Mozart was not an augment; he did not require any kind of genetic engineering; he was an ordinary human being with an extraordinary gift – a glorious and timeless one – MUSIC – something that many people play and listen to more than 200 years after he died and will continue to do, most likely even into the 23rd century.

We focus on the wrong stuff… just saying.

#28 – Yes, maybe John Harrison is just another ordinary human being who is aggrieved, angry with a sense of arrogance and superiority and does things he really shouldn’t do and needs to be stopped…

55. spockboy - December 18, 2012

Maybe in this timeline the Klingons found the Botany Bay and Harrison was awakened first, and Khan will be awakened at the end of the film. (in steps Javier Bardem)

Hope it’s good. :)

56. BillyBoy - December 18, 2012

Why anyone think Benedict Cumberbatch is Sybok?! That makes even less sense than Khan. The character is clearly a emotional angry human, NOT a Vulcan mystic, and Sybok was clearly re-written in drafts to distance themselves from Khan so he WOULDN’T be a vengeful guy who tramples on people but instead a charismatic and warm cult leader (something today’s Trek writers could learn a bit about… they’re way overdone the “angry revengeful badass” type the last couple of movies, trying hopelessly to emulate Khan)

Add the fact that everyone HATED the Sybok backstory about him being “Spock’s half brother” that was created out of thin air for the movie, Gene Roddenberry himself considered major parts of it to be non-canon, and the fact that both the fans and powers that be at Paramount decided to ignore Star Trek V and never directly reference anything from it EVER again (ever heard anything about Nimbus III and Sha Ka Ree since then?) It’s sort like the ridiculous “warp drive speed limit” stuff from TNG that ended up in the “do not ever reference again” guidelines for future Trek writers.

Plus there’s the fact that the Sybok character was poorly received and the movie was a huge box office flop, so the odds that JJ Abrams and crew would look to that film for character and plot inspiration are astronomical. Paramount wouldn’t even loan Shatner a few bucks to give the movie decent special effects when it was re-released on DVD. It is definitely the black sheep of the Trek movies.

But some on this board are utterly convinced Cumberbach = Sybok?! Okay, what’s next. By any chance do you also think Noel Clarke is playing Miri and Peter Weller has been cast as Reginald Barclay? Seriously, people.

57. Nano - December 18, 2012

@ 34 I stand corrected yes 1/4

To simplify things perhaps John is just an evil bastard and colleague of Dr. Marcus it seems like Kirk she likes to play with fire…

58. MV84 - December 18, 2012

It looks like Clarke is from Starfleet Academy (the ring).
Harisson makes contact with Clarke in the first minutes.
So, is it possible Clarke let Harisson graduate somehow, by changing some computerfiles, to get him in Starfleet?

59. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 18, 2012

edit: I meant to say – “Mozart’s music is something that many people play…”

60. JJ's Secret - December 18, 2012

I think they are just changing things around to keep us on our toes. All of it is just a game… a fun game.. but a game.

61. I Am Morg Not Eymorg - December 18, 2012

@ 54. Rose (as in Keachick) Now you are getting into Flint from “Requiem for Methuselah”. ;)

@ 52. Yanks and 53. Razzo: Thanks fellas.

62. Peter Loader - December 18, 2012

“…unstoppable destructive force…” sounds better.

Clearly we are dealing with villain and his henchmen. Possibly augments or a force of Klingons who aspire to the ideals of their leader; a genetically enhanced human who’s promised them the destruction of the Federation.

63. Bob Tompkins - December 18, 2012

Khan/Harrison is recruited by Section 31- satisfying the ‘within their own organization’..
Pike is the person killed giving Kirk a personal score to settle.
Khan’s people are in the tubes being used as bargaining chips by Section 31.
I do like 55s speculation but I would not be surprised at the ultimate curveball being thrown by the writers, that being Khan dies at the end of the movie without ever getting out of the tube, Ricardo Montalban’s face digitally inserted onto a corpse.

64. Yanks - December 18, 2012

I agree with 3. BulletInTheFace – December 18, 2012

The first was either written by someone that writes as badly as I do or this was all planned as this synopsis might have been too revealing before the trailers came out.

65. bytesaber - December 18, 2012

Who cares… it’s just a noisy movie that has nothing to do with Star Trek cannon.

66. Bob Tompkins - December 18, 2012

The word terror is removed in deference to last week’s tragedy…?

67. Anthony Pascale - December 18, 2012

The word terror is still in there. I think they just cleaned it up and made it more concise for the “One Sheet”. The first one had the word terror twice

68. Phil - December 18, 2012

@65. If you don’t care, why are you here, other then complain?

69. Yanks - December 18, 2012

@ 68. Phil – December 18, 2012

Exactly.

And I believe aside from Enterprise, we are starting over.

70. Spock Jenkins - December 18, 2012

I second that 68. Here here.

@65 – Jog on.

71. Elessar - December 18, 2012

J.J. is cutting the Klingons out, again! ;)

72. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 18, 2012

Just because Gene Roddenberry did not like aspects of Star Trek V does not suddenly make the movie “not canon”. The movie is a Star Trek film, made by the franchise owner and therefore is canon and so is Sybok.

I was one of the people who proposed that Cumberbatch could be playing Sybok. Clearly, Sybok, as well as the Vulcan race, is misunderstood by the poster. Vulcan, as explained by Sarek in this alternate timeline, have emotions as powerful, in fact, more powerful than those of humans and so need to be kept under strict control – hence the various mental disciplines including the Kolinahr which seeks to eradicate any trace of Vulcan emotion. Sybok (from STV) did not agree with the Vulcan attitude towards emotion and was ostracized for that belief… In an alternate timeline, it is possible that Sybok is still alive and unfortunately is no longer so compassionate and hopeful (or maybe he is), but has his full Vulcan emotional arsenal at his disposal.

Actually, I think it most unlikely that Sybok will actually even be mentioned, let along appear, in this film anyway. On the other hand, in Star Trek V, Sybok seemed to be someone who could be manipulated by other more seemingly benign but powerful force…so who knows.

It was just an idea, someone who wasn’t Khan or Gary Mitchell or Lord Garth or any of those names that have been repeated so many times lately as being STID’s villain.

It seems that it is still not enough to have named the villain – John Harrison. It appears that some people think the name too “lame” to possibly be a villain. Huh? That would have to be one of the stupidest statements made in a while. I wonder how the Johns and the Harrisons of this world feel that their names are considered “lame”.

73. bytesaber - December 18, 2012

It’s not a complaint. It’s obvious observation. Paramount sold the TV show to CBS. Paramount was left with all these movies about a TV show they no longer own. Hence they were forced to start over with a reboot. To me, it’s just not Star Trek anymore. Just selling the name.

74. Peter N - December 18, 2012

I think the key element that is missing in many of the analyses of who John Harrison is (if he is not just plain old “John Harrison”) is the repeated quote from Cumberbatch that at some point in the movie the audience might empathize with JH and his motives. I don’t believe that anyone could have ever truly empathized with Khan – a great villain, to be sure, but still more or less one-dimensional, simply looking for absolute power because it was his “right” as a genetically engineered superman and then driven to revenge and madness because Kirk had abandoned him on Ceti Alpha V. Unless someone found the Botany Bay a lot earlier (I doubt Spock Prime would have told them where it was so that within a year Khan is on Earth and plotting his revenge – for what? – and Starfleet would not have been actively looking for it after the destruction of the Kelvin – you don’t look for what you don’t know you have lost) it seems unlikely that JH is Khan… and yes, I know that with Nero’s temporal incursion all kinds of “changes” are possible. I am crossing my fingers for an original story with an original, three-dimensional villain (with some vague canonic connection) that is the catalyst for bringing our beloved characters to the place where they were at the beginning of TOS.

75. Klondike - December 18, 2012

Here’s what I think the first half of the movie with be so far based on all the trailers, information, and mis-information we have so far: SPOILERS!

-Kirk will violate the prime directive to save Spock from the volcano (Enterprise is show rising out of the water in broad daylight)

-THEORY #1: Facing a court marshal for violating the prime directive, Kirk and the Enterprise are recalled to earth. During a night time meeting with Kirk, Pike ,and others in Starfleet Command, BC or allied badguy (thanks to help from the “Dad”) attack the meeting, via shuttle from outside the window, killing Pike and others possibly. Pike’s dying words to Kirk are what we heard during the second trailer. This would also explain why Kirk is speaking at the memorial service and why there’s a lone flag being folded, the missing man formation being flown by the fighters (Probably not a service for thousand killed in an attack), and why the attack effects Kirk and Spock personally. Additional attacks on earth (Spock chasing after BC), the death of some of SF command staff, and the destruction of the fleet lead Kirk and the ENT on a unofficial mission to capture BC.

THEORY #2: With the help of the “Dad”, BC launches either an attack on the ground (London or San Francisco) or on the fleet in orbit resulting in Pike receiving mortal injuries (if Pike was the main target of the attack, it could point to a disgruntled Capt. April). The Enterprise is called home and Kirk is with Pike in a hospital for his final moments. The voice over from the beginning of the second trailer could be Pike’s last words to Kirk. After the memorial service Kirk meets with SF Command to demand that he be aloud to track down BC and he is denied. The meeting is attacked and Kirk is the only survivor. With the fleet destroyed either in the first attack or after the memorial service and the death several members of SF Command, Starfleet and it’s leadership is in complete disarray. Kirk goes an an unauthorized mission to capture BC.

76. L4YERCAKE - December 18, 2012

Clarke has nothing to do with this. Peter Weller is playing someone above Pike’s authority, he’s the one who detonates the fleet from within and whom Kirk defies in returning to Earth. Maybe he wants to replace Kirk with Khan as captain of the Enterprise. I’m pretty sure Weller’s character has it in personally for Kirk.

77. Craiger - December 18, 2012

#74 – I like theory #2 theory one sounds to similar to Kirk and cheating on the Koybiashi Maru. Maybe Weller if Captain April in your theory #2.

78. Craiger - December 18, 2012

Or what if Weller is head of Section 31?

79. Craiger - December 18, 2012

#65 – That’s right because since its an alternate universe canon can be thrown out the window.

80. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 18, 2012

#61 – Sorry. I am not following you. I have seen the episode Requiem for Methuselah. I was not referring to any particularly Star Trek movie or episode. I was referring to a common sci-fi theme – that of augments like Khan, genetically engineering humans and others to be supposedly superior, physically and intellectually, or actually creating beings via test-tube with supernormal capabilities.

The Requiem is a musical work. It is part of Catholic musical liturgy. It is a real piece of music composed more than 200 years by a real human being, an unmodified human.

81. Peter Loader - December 18, 2012

Here’s a thought… the shots of the empty Enterprise may mean that the crew are in the cryo tubes… but, I’m betting they are full of genetically enhanced Klingons ready to take on the Federation.

82. MV84 - December 18, 2012

@ 38 R. Banks

Exactly….and maybe Harisson is asking more than inside information. I think Clarke (he’s from Starfleet Academy) makes Harisson a member of Starfleet.

83. Crewman Darnell - December 18, 2012

As has been speculated before, it’s a safe bet that Cumber-villain uses his promise of a “cure” for the dying girl, to make a Faustian deal with her parents, to gain access to and/or sabotage Star Fleet.

84. Garth Faction - December 18, 2012

I’m one of the few who really like the story of Star Trek V. The presentation, on film, couldn’t live to its potential with all the setbacks which went on (thank you Paramount). Yet, I read the novel before I saw the movie, awaiting its release, and it showed me the fantastic idea behind it.

While I don’t think Cumberbatch is Sybok, I would welcome it. I do think he would be completely changed as a result of what happened. And if he isn’t Cumberbatch, then I hope he is brought up in the future with a new mission: trying to bridge the gap between the Romulans and the Vulcans now that the Vulcans have no homeworld.

85. Trek Fan - December 18, 2012

My theory: Harrison works for Weller’s character. He is attempting to go against Starfleet and need some inside information. Clarke’s character is in Starfleet intelligence or is someone inside Starfleet that knows something. Harrison attempts to use a cure for his daughter as leverage for the information. That is where the line “Is there anything you would not do for your family?” comes from.

I still think Harrison is just Harrison.

86. George Zip - December 18, 2012

#84

“Harrison is just Harrison”

That’s the phrase for this TREK, the way I grabbed “USS SPOCK’S TIME SHIP” as the phrase for TREK ’09. :)

87. George Zip - December 18, 2012

#83 — agreed; if you just read the novel, the story does work. I need to read STV again.

88. CK - December 18, 2012

Here’s a spin on things .. when I think of an unstoppable force of destruction, I think of the Doomesday Machine. Remember that episode when Kirk asked Decker he’d ever heard of it? Could Cumberbatch be the person who invents the Doomesday Machine or even Matt Decker? Decker killed his crew because of it and Kirk nearly lost the Enterprise trying to destroy it. In the original episode the planet killer was on a course for “Earth”.
I think we’re all being lead down the wrong path with the “obvious” villians .. let’s think outside the box. I’m telling you the Doomesday Machine is part of the story. Heard it hear first!

89. I Am Morg Not Eymorg - December 18, 2012

@ 79. Rose (as in Keachick): It was a jape. The reference was to Flint who was a character much like the one you’re calling for. Indeed, he was several of them. :)

90. Ted C - December 18, 2012

Wow, you just told us what anyone with a half a brain could have figured out on their own. Thanks.

91. R. Banks - December 18, 2012

@81-

I didn’t think of that. Harrison needs the keys to the backdoor, so to speak.

I knew Clarke was in Starfleet, but I didn’t know he was from the academy. Knowing that now, your idea of entrance into Starfleet being the price Clarke has to pay to save his daughter makes alot of sense.

It also fits well with the synopsis, as it does say that the threat comes from within Starfleet.

Very interesting…

92. Sebastian S. - December 18, 2012

“Terrorist attack from within their OWN organization.”
Ah, well Khan never joined Starfleet, hence Cumberbatch = Not Khan.

I’m clinging to my latest post-Mitchell theory. It’s a Starfleet-made Augment (made covertly, possibly by Peter Weller’s bad guy) who’s gone rogue somehow, after being betrayed by his Starfleet ‘masters.’

Again, having seen the nine minutes of footage? I’m fairly convinced that Cumberbatch is playing some kind of superhuman augment (hence his offer of curing Noel Clarke’s kid; Khan wasn’t much for helping sick, ‘normal’ kids).

Sounds good! New characters, new story. ST, once again boldly going forward… not backward. ;-)

93. CmdrR - December 18, 2012

“Captain Kirk leads his crew on a manhunt to capture an unstoppable force of destruction.”

He’s going after my 4-year-old? That seems pretty mean of Kirk.

94. a_phake - December 18, 2012

@#37 AVI

>The best & most sensible thing I’ve read in any of the comments on this site period

95. Spockchick - December 18, 2012

Nooooooo. No Kill! No Kill Pike!

96. Garth Faction - December 18, 2012

Pike doesn’t die, Spock Prime just has another court martial event…

97. R. Banks - December 18, 2012

@92-

“Captain Kirk leads his crew on a manhunt to capture an unstoppable force of destruction.”

“He’s going after my 4-year-old? That seems pretty mean of Kirk..”

An alternate theory could be that they are coming after George, my 22 pound Maine Coon Cat…

98. dontcare - December 18, 2012

@73. You should really check your facts better man, cause that statement has no relation to reality.

99. Bob Mack - December 18, 2012

Seems to me that the movie creators are happy to lead us to believe it will be Khan – which is why I don’t think it will be Khan. Imagine the smiles and laughter in the room when they worked up the “tubes” scene and realized what a Khan teaser it would be.

At the end of the day, a re-imagined Khan story would be interesting to watch, but I give the writers a lot more creative credit than having to resurrect a film that was already made.

100. Commodore Redshirt - December 18, 2012

The new synopsis is much better than the poorly worded first attempt…

101. Bob Mack - December 18, 2012

#74 – agree with the idea that the missing man formation indicates one death, not many. It’s a point worth considering in any theory of how this film might work.

102. TrekMadeMeWonder - December 18, 2012

Garth, Khan, Mitchell or any other classic TOS character, this is NOT the Trek you are looking for. GO AWAY! Or, risk being severely disapointed.

103. razzo - December 18, 2012

“Ah, well Khan never joined Starfleet, hence Cumberbatch = Not Khan.”

How on Earth does that make sense to you?
How many times do people have to hear that this a REBOOT.

Just because Uhura and Spock never kissed on canon before, it doesn’t mean they couldn’t do it now.
Just because a villain didn’t do something in the past IT DOESN’T MEAN he won’t do it now.

Get the hell over it, lads.

Also absolutely nothing here proves J. Harrison will join Starfleet, to begin with.
There are general hints that the Starfleet will be attacked from inside, but it most probably mean PW’s character or Harrison’s seducing and manipulating skills. Manipulating a crew to work against themselves can be seen as inside attack as well.

People are so desperate to dismiss Khan, that they don’t even think of what they’re saying anymore.

104. Jax Maxton - December 18, 2012

Harrison is “Johnny”, Kirk’s step-brother from the 09 Trek movie, hence all the family references.

After Nero destroys Vulcan, there is a contingent inside of the federation who now believe they must strike their enemies first, ala the Reublican hawks in the Bush administration. They create a genetically enhanced soldier in Harrison. Harrison and Kirk were both abused by Harrison’s father when he was younger, but Harrison escaped to London, possibly because his mom was from there. Kirk and Harrison were very close as kids, but lost touch with each other as adults.

Harrison finds out about a plan to start a war with the Klingons and decides that he must stop starfleet because millions will be killed. He disables the fleet as heads to Qo’nos to stop the Klingons by destroying their fleet. Kirk, after being brought back to earth and told that his step-brother has virtually destroyed starfleet, disobeys orders and goes after his brother on Qo’nos. he is able to capture Harrison, but soon learns about adept conspiracy inside of starfleet. Now Kirk, Harrison, and the crew of the Enterprise must attack starfleet and reveal the truth if the conspiracy before starfleet attacks someone else, possibly the Romulans.

105. Craiger - December 18, 2012

Why would Harrison destroy the fleet and leave Earth defenseless against the Klingons?

106. Phil - December 18, 2012

@97…and in the end, that ‘unstoppable force’ will end up being stopped fairly easily. Unless JJ and Co. are really heading off the reservation at the end of the movie Kirk will be back to his skirt chasing ways, the Federation will still be the good guys, and all will be as it should be in the Trek universe…

107. Phil - December 18, 2012

@104….Kinda sounds like Insurrection.

108. Jax Maxton - December 18, 2012

@105 @107

Obviously, this is just very broad strokes, and there could be much more like the Federation using Khan tech to create Harrison. But I think the filmmakers will want to tell a “socially relevant” movie and starfleet’s response to terrorism seems to be the way they are leaning, IMO, with Harrison as the “misunderstood villain who isn’t really a villain”.and there has a to be a very good reason that only Kirk and the Enterprise can stop him.

Of course, I could be completely wrong, but that synopsis and the trailers seem to hint at something in this direction.

109. razzo - December 18, 2012

@104: What even is wrong with you people?

How many times do we have to explain;

-Kirk’s brother’s name is George Samuel Kirk, and is called Sam by Jim Kirk.

-His character was e n t i r e l y cut off the 2009 movie.

-They kept the scene where Jim passes by the boy on the highwayand edited the boy’s name from “Sam!” to ”Johnny!” after Sam was cut off.

-Spencer Daniels, the actor who plays the boy, is credited as a Johnny, completely different character than Kirk’s brother, being just his friend.

110. Jax Maxton - December 18, 2012

@109

Who are you calling “you people”?!?

LOL! j/k

In this timeline, Kirk’s mother married a new man after Kirk’s father dies. There’s no reason that he can’t be named Harrison and have a son named John. John and Kirk are close because John’s father is abusive, so they grow up as brothers, when they are really only step-brothers.

111. wicketsc - December 18, 2012

Occam’s razor, perhaps John Harrison is someone named John Harrison. The people who are trying to convince themselves he is Garth or Robert April will be trying to convince themselves he is Edith Keeler next.

112. Enterprisingguy - December 18, 2012

I don’t see why people think that if Starfleet wanted to create a genetically altered person to be a weapon of some sort that they would need Khan or the other augments to do it. It’s like saying that they need a cake to look at because they forgot how to use the ingredients they have to make one. They would already have long since had the knowledge. They just aren’t supposed to do it! Case in point Dr. Bashir. I

If they do go that route it will be just as lazy a script at the last one was with it’s many plot holes.

113. Craiger - December 18, 2012

I wonder how dissapointed fans might be if he ends up just being John Harrison and its not an alias? That he is Johnny from the first movie?

114. Picard's Slappy Patty - December 18, 2012

It appears that we are getting another earth-centric adventure, and was really after adventures exploring strange, new worlds.

115. SpockOut - December 18, 2012

I’m inclined to believe Harrison is a augment and manipulates the father of the dying child, a Starfleet Officer, to help sabotage. Khan will come later….possibly the next in the series. I for one have no issues with them redoing Khan/Augments in a new way. I loved the prequel books, Space Seed, and of course STWoK. I thought the augment episodes of Enterprise were some of the more entertaining of that series. The people on here that are so opposed reinforce the stereotype of Trekkies, derp Trekkers, having syndromes :o) Hoorah to Abrams for having the stones to take Trek to the next level!

116. Craiger - December 18, 2012

I think having Johnny be John Harrison from the first movie be cool because he could be Kirk’s best friend from childhood or his Stepbrother and Kirk would have trouble going after him at first because of that.

117. Craiger - December 18, 2012

Maybe the shocked looked on Kirk’s face while on the Klingon homeworld is seeing his childhood friend their? I don’t think he could be his Stepbrother. Unless Kirk’s Mom remaired and adopted Johnny?

118. Gary - December 18, 2012

“from within their own organization” = April
“sacrifices must be made” = goodbye Chekov

119. razzo - December 18, 2012

Wow you people simply won’t give up. Good luck with that, we can talk again in a few months…or far much less.

120. BulletInTheFace - December 18, 2012

#104: Johnny wasn’t Kirk’s step-brother.

121. razzo - December 18, 2012

Ok the quality level of this discussion is dropping too fast, I’ll come back when any of the recent posters at least makes sense.

122. razzo - December 18, 2012

@120: Don’t waste your time trying to tell them that, the person is in denial.

123. Sebastian S. - December 18, 2012

# 119

Gary~

LOL.
Poor Chekov… that red uniform is like wearing a target on one’s back, isn’t it? ;-D

124. dontcare - December 18, 2012

There is absolutely NO evidence anywhere suggesting Winnona Kirk remarried, the abuser was George’s brother according to the deleted scenes.

125. Jax Maxton - December 18, 2012

@124

A cousin works even better, then, IMO. Harrison may be Kirk’s remaining relative. Perhaps he changed his name due to the infamy of George Kirk.

126. Jay Ricim - December 18, 2012

What if Khan was found 25 years earlier in this alternate timeline by the Klingons? If he were awoken early he would be 25 years older in this reality and could be played by Peter Weller. John Harrison could be his son who joined starfleet…anyone thought of that yet? Think about it. The galaxy was shook up a bit by Nero. It’s only logical that when Nero appeared and destroyed everything in his path that the survivors and all envolved would be searching the galaxy hard to verify that there weren’t anymore like him. It makes sense to me that Khan would be discovered much earlier in this timeline. He could have been discovered when Kirk was a baby.

127. Doc Holliday - December 18, 2012

Any word on what Peter Wellers role will be?

128. Aix - December 18, 2012

What if the real ’John Harrison’ is Noel Clarke and Cumberbatch just stole his identity?

129. pock smeared - December 18, 2012

Peter Weller will be playing that guy in the “photobomb?” article.

130. pock smeared - December 18, 2012

Pretty sure now that “harrison” will turn out to be a guy named eddie from brooklyn. chaos ensues.

131. pock smeared - December 18, 2012

FLASH: “Harrison” will actually turn out to be a Michael Jackson clone/augment, who wears one glove around through the whole film, beginning a cultural mashup that will baffle fans and critics alike.

And the score will include “One Glove” by Bod Marley.

132. Jmw3246 - December 18, 2012

Here’s the thing: Joseph Conrad’s Heart of Darkness

133. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 18, 2012

Unless Kirk’s mother’s maiden name was Harrison, then – No. The man looking after the young Jim Kirk was his uncle, his mother’s older brother. Winona Kirk seems not to have remarried at the point in the first movie where you see Jim total the Corvette. George Samuel Kirk, Jim’s older brother, who shares the same mother and father, moved out of the uncle’s house a while back to live with a grandparent. Jim is alone with the uncle when the incident with the car happens. Jimmy is lonely and upset that he is left alone with an uncle who has little time for him.

This is what I gleaned from the Online comic series.

134. pock smeared - December 18, 2012

132: Agreed! Spockalypse Now!

135. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 18, 2012

Infamy of George Kirk? Which George Kirk are you referring? Kirk’s father was certainly NOT infamous. However, we know nothing of George Samuel Kirk, Jim’s older brother, other than he left home to live with a grandparent.

Anything is possible. John Harrison may be a relative of James Kirk, or not.

136. Craiger - December 18, 2012

Hey I found that deleted ST: 2009 scene. No name was mentioned and I also found where young Kirk passes Johnny by. That actor who played him looks like a young Cumberbatch. It’s at 1:15 in the second video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38M_Rw_Lx10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTGeagS4HcU

137. Jax Maxton - December 18, 2012

@135

It was hinted in 2009 that Jim Kirk’s father is pretty well known for sacrificing himself to save the people on the ship. As a matter of fact, part of Jim’s problem seems to stem from living up to his father’s sacrifice. And, if I remember correctly, George Kirk’s sacrifice is studied at starfleet academy. So he may not be “infamous”, but he’s well known.

138. On Vacation With Landru - December 18, 2012

He says “Hey Georgey” it’s clearly his brother that was in the first clip.

139. On Vacation With Landru - December 18, 2012

And yeah, I’m pretty sure a guy sacrificing his life so that his crew can survive made the news and is probably taught at the academy. Pretty sure the whole Nero thing is probably a pretty important history lesson, too…and the guy who was instrumental in that battle so that the Federation would have information would probably be required learning.

140. Jax Maxton - December 18, 2012

I don’t know of John Harrison an Jim Kirk are blood relatives or not, but the trailer strongly hints that Kirk and Harrison are the “family” mentioned in the voice over. If it wasn’t JJ Abrams directing it, it would seem obvious that’s the case. Then with the latest synopsis saying that Kirk defies his orders, it leads me to believe he would only do that for someone he truly cared for, ala Spock in STIII. So Kirk is breaking the rules to go after Harrison.,

141. pock smeared - December 18, 2012

I saw a clip from “Bad Catholic Girls in Bondage #18″ that featured a guy who looks very much like Cumberbatch as the “spankmaster” recently. Coincidence? I think not.

142. SirBroiler - December 18, 2012

The whole Harrison is Khan in disguise thing just doesn’t float and would be a wholly lame way to bring up his story in this universe.

I’m starting to buy the theory of a secret or rogue sect of Starfleet, led by Peter Weller, exploring augmentation. Harrison is a product of that program. In the vein of Bourne Identity, Harrison goes rogue, kills his masters and begins to destabilize Starfleet through a series of large attacks. Pike dies. Harrison knows, or uncovers, the history of Khan and proceeds to seek out his fellow augments – tracking the Botany Bay to Kronos or at least to Klingon Space. Kirk and company pursue. Battle along the way takes the life of someone in main crew. All seems lost. Harrison finally discovers the Botany Bay and raises Khan from his sleep, just before credits roll, setting up part three.

143. Thomas - December 18, 2012

141. pock smeared,

You might be onto something; like Khan and John both have four letters, both Cumberbatch and spankmaster have eleven letters each. ;)

144. Jax Maxton - December 18, 2012

@142

That’s the direction I’m thinking as well, except I’m done speculating on Khan for now.

145. Gary S. - December 18, 2012

What If Khan Noonien Singh never existed in this timeline ?

146. John W. - December 18, 2012

One thing most of your theories leave out is this idea that Harrison has a righteous or partly righteous cause.

Cumberbatch has indicated that he is acting for noble objectives, and most of the theories just paint him so far as evil.

What is the end that his terrorist means are working toward and why?

147. BulletInTheFace - December 18, 2012

#145: That doesn’t make any sense–Khan was alive centuries before the Narada destroyed the Kelvin.

148. John W. - December 18, 2012

What was the work that Sam Kirk was doing before he was killed?

149. BulletInTheFace - December 18, 2012

#137: Infamy and being known for sacrificing yourself aren’t the same thing. Infamy means having an extremely bad reputation. It’s the opposite of fame. George Kirk most definitely was not infamous.

150. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 18, 2012

George Samuel Kirk Jnr becomes Johnny in the final cut of the movie, most likely, someone Jim knows as a neighbour and/or from school. In the Online comic George’s backstory gets a little rewrite, under the auspices of Bob Orci.

I really hope that Khan gets his comeuppance for good in this movie, if he is going to appear in it at all. I could not go through the torture of reading for the next three years whether or not the third movie will have Khan in it. This has gone beyond insane. Please – no more Khan. Please – Bob, JJ Abrams – no more of this cruel and unusual punishment. I do not know what I have done to deserve it…;)

There are so many other good and bad dudes out there who have no connection to this Khan character whatsoever. Let’s meet a few of them!!!

151. Brevard - December 18, 2012

Seems to be a lot of terrorism in this Trek world. I thought, in Trek, all the bad stuff, from within, went away. Isn’t it a utopian existence? In the “Garth” episode, there were, what, only 6 or 7 folks in the galaxy who were considered insane? And they had medicine to combat their insanity? Hmmm…What would Gene say about all this terrorism? I’m all for parallels to our contemporary world, but, sheesh, does everything have to be so damn dark? I’ve always liked Star Trek because it gave us a view of a better world. JJ’s version doesn’t seem to be such a great place. Personally, I’d like to have a little more hope in my Trek.

152. Jax Maxton - December 18, 2012

@149

You’re right. Me not good with words using sometimes.

153. Dave1119 - December 18, 2012

#45. Very excellent post. I have made several posts in the last few weeks alluding to the same ideas. You really summed it up well. I’ve added the thought in some previous posts that with the destruction of Vulcan, there may be a lot of Vulcans settling on Earth, and that has bolstered the anti-alien movement. Peter Weller’s character is driving the conspiracy. BC may be Khan, or another augment. I also think it is possible that rather than finding the Bottany Bay, Peter Weller is using more advanced techniques to create Augments from normals via gene therapy.

154. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 18, 2012

I thought young Jimmy yells ” Hey, Johnny!”

I suspect the audio has deliberately got “muffled”, however, I am sure I heard and saw his lips say “Johnny”. Since the scene got deleted, the actor who played George then became Johnny. We have not yet met George, Jim Kirk’s older brother, on FILM yet.

Although no actual definitive statement has been forthcoming from the powers that be, ie Paramount as to whether deleted scenes are still regarded as canon, I am of the opinion that they do not and should not.

155. Son Of MJ - December 18, 2012

Still dont think its a Khan story, though having said that IF and its a big IF, Khan was infact not the main Advisary of the film but more along the lines of a puppet master character, and if Del Torro was indeed playing him, I could possibly warm up to that.

Especially if they throw in at aleast one of the 3 main TOS Klingons into the story.

I still predict that Weller is elder April, and Cumberbatch harrison is infact a deaged April.

156. Ballzurk - December 18, 2012

Could this be part of the viral puzzle?

157. jagen - December 18, 2012

Those ‘tubes’ could easily be future coffins of the people killed in the act of terror and kirk sees them, motivating him to seek revenge. Maybe to throw us off? Or are they the tubes holding Khan’s people? or maybe not….

158. Adolescent Nightmare - December 18, 2012

Whatever happened to all those theories about all the Garys? Is Gary no longer a name that strikes terror at the box office?

159. Do You Wanna Dance - December 18, 2012

They killed Spock’s mother in ST09. They’re going to kill Kirk’s mom in ST13 too?!

160. Trek Fan - December 18, 2012

158. Adolescent Nightmare

Because the name of the villain is John Harrison. Not Mitchell. Not Khan. Not Garth. His name is John Harrison.

161. sean - December 18, 2012

I can’t say with 100% certainty who Cumberbatch is playing, but I can say with 100% certainty it is not Sybok.

162. John Bliss - December 18, 2012

Faran Tahir would make the coolest Khan

163. dontcare - December 18, 2012

@150. The IDW comics that are under Bob’s purview are not “online comics” they are traditional comic books that are also offered in a digital format for those who have the software to read them (like me). An online comic would be the “Outer Light” comic done by the writer of TNG’s Inner Light.

164. Son of MJ - December 18, 2012

Alexander Sidig, would make the coolest 21st century khan
Mr John Bliss

165. Nick - December 18, 2012

Interesting reading all the theories over the past few weeks.

The real problem is that we don’t trust what we are being told & I think even Mr Orci has even admitted to a white lie at some point.

At the end of the day 90% of us are enjoying a sporting discussion – I personally can wait for the truth come mid 2013 …

The only thing I have mentioned in older posts is that Noel Clarke (sp?) may be TOS character Richard Daystrom. Certainly the man with the ability to destroy the fleet technology wise.

We’re also told that we can empathise with John Harrison’s motivations to a point. If this is an allegory for our times … we need to think about today’s terrorists … those who have a fair motivating grievance. (Having said that nothing excuses terrorism, violence etc – don’t get me wrong).

There is definitely smoke & mirrors with the Khan thing … obviously we are being played big time by the powers that be.

I’m no political animal so I won’t try to draw any examples, what do you think?

166. merrick - December 18, 2012

section 31??

167. Buzz Cagney - December 18, 2012

Are we certain Rick Berman didn’t write this movie?

168. 74205-A - December 18, 2012

Cough *23rd Century Dr. Soong.* Cough.

169. Aaron (Naysayers are gonna nay) - December 18, 2012

I have solidly been in the Garth of Izar corner now for a while but sadly I am starting to lean Khan and I don’t like it. I know the John Harrison is just a false name like Dark Knights Miranda Tate. So that begs the question of who it could be from canon. Frankly the only one worth that sort of fake name and build up for is in fact Khan… I have no doubt that it will be a good movie but I am sad now… LET ME BE SURE TO CLARIFY… When I first read Anthony’s inside scoop that it was Khan I was very excited, and a little nervous, about that idea. More excited than nervous.

Then I saw what Cumberbatch looked like… Sorry not a Sherlock viewer. AND I figured there was no way this white Brit could be Khan… So I figures the great Pascale of the galaxy had got it wrong and I formed the thought pattern that it is indeed Garth. Sadly the more tids and bits we get I lean away from Garth to the Khan corner.

ONE COMMENT BY BOB ORCI comes to mind in particular and that is his comments about “face melting”… I am thinking when Cumberbatch and not Del Toro or another more Khan-esque actor was cast I think they created a plot point were he was altered (face melted) physically to look the way he does now and even talks the way he does now. This plays into him not being recognized immediately by everyone as Khan was a major historical figure. The revenge being had is not against Kirk but rather Earth and lower humanity itself for him losing his power and status in the war. “I have returned”…

In finality this is not a bad thing in my mind although it is a bit of a downer for me personally as I still feel a power and wrathful Lord Garth would be a more entertaining villain but I trust that the movie will be good either way. If it is Khan yes the Klingons found him first. And as for the crying dad its pretty clear he sells his soul to John Harrison for his daughter and that’s what allows him to ravage the fleet. Perhaps he is Captain of a powerful starfleet prototype (excelsior?) or perhaps he gives him the self destruct codes for one ship docked at the station which in turn takes down the station and all the others with it. More likely is that he gives him computer access to the main top classified starfleet database containing all the prefix codes for every ship… Hence the ship flat out plowing into SF Bay… You could see the fun a villain would have colliding ships together and hurtling them at Earth etc once he has them overridden. I am sure that will be a fun seen special effects wise regardless.

I am hoping for Garth… But am okay with Khan… Or Gary but it’s not Gary… Sigh. I do believe we will know in a month or so who it is though. They have given us bit by bit leading to Khan and I think that they are dong that deliberately so the die hard fans don’t go over the deep end. Mind you I am a die hard just not the deep end type lol…

Good thing I have my own indie film to work on to keep me distracted as that sucks up all my free time… Click my name above for the facebook page… Likes are appreciated! :)

170. Nick - December 18, 2012

168: ‘Face Melting’

I remember that … hardly anyone has mentioned it since.

I hope it isn’t Khan either, but what will be will be I s’pose.

171. Aaron (Naysayers are gonna nay) - December 18, 2012

@169…. Yep

172. Aaron (Naysayers are gonna nay) - December 18, 2012

P.S. Don’t scoff at my excelsior theory saying it is far to early for that ship to be built. The military usually plans and designs different types of craft long before they are built. Some are tabled and built later and some tabled to never be built. The Kelvin and Vulcan incidents could easily have sped up that project.

173. John W. - December 18, 2012

171: Not to mention the advances that Spock Prime will surely have expedited.

Will he also be warning the Klingons about the fact that their home world has an expiration date unless they stop treating it like shit?

174. Aaron (Naysayers are gonna nay) - December 18, 2012

@172… John a lot of that type of theory is dependent on how much Spock Prime does or does not want to effect the past. True it is already a different universe drastically changed so he might be okay with changing even more… But I like to think that Spock Prime wouldn’t necessarily fiddle with much besides helping establish “New Vulcan”…

175. Curious Cadet - December 18, 2012

@169 Nick,

It’s been mentioned dozens of times in the last 6 mons or so. It’s Team Khan’s 2nd favorite way to explain Cumberbatch playing Khan. Google it. Though I can’t find a single reference to it prior to May, nor the original post by Orci where he first stated it. So either it wasn’t the real Orci, or for some other reason Anthony removed it, or it got lost in the ether like so many of our posts.

However, if that’s what they do to retcon Khan’s appearance, they might as well just go the whole “Face Off” plot and have Khan switch his face with John Harrison and put him in stasis so Khan can have his beautiful face back when he completes his little plan.

“Face Melting” … The audience will laugh them out of the theater.

176. Commodore Adams - December 18, 2012

I am voting for John Harrison….but it still sounds made up to me. Actors could let slip info in interviews, so to keep things hush hush JJ decided to give the villain a fake name for the actors to use when speaking to media so the real one would not get out, like a John Doe type of name and the generic common name John Harrison just strikes me that way.

If there was a vote for Joaquin (TOS) and not Joachim (TWOK) id go with Joaquin.

..but still, we all know the role of the villain was written and might have stared Del Toro, and we’re fairly apt at concluding who that would have been. We know the movie was rewritten but to what extent?

177. Aaron (Naysayers are gonna nay) - December 18, 2012

@174… I myself am not a huge fan of Khan intentionally altering his appearance in any way to sneak about but I have a feeling that’s where they are going. If done right it could be okay but Khan is better done playing up his own self perceived magnificence and grandeur in my opinion not skulking about in disguise.

178. Nick - December 18, 2012

174

agree, & there were multiple orci’s at that time In think

179. Aaron (Naysayers are gonna nay) - December 18, 2012

@177… True and without much moderation that was a problem. Glad we are back to better moderation now.

180. NCM - December 18, 2012

Kirk could be going after two opponents here. The act of terror could have been perpetrated against Harrison, unleashing him as this destructive force…Perhaps Kirk is chasing down Harrison and planning on bringing to justice those who set him off.

181. Buffalojsn - December 18, 2012

Did anyone think that maybe John Harris is a product from Peter Weller Character, he is a CEO from a unknown Company, also i find it interesting that the Enterprise is the only Family Kirk has left, did his Brother and Mutter Died already or they died during the Terrorist Attack ?.

182. Buzz Cagney - December 18, 2012

Pike is SOOOOO going to die. Thats a given and has been from day 1.
Need a quick emotion ‘fix’? First George (though that one was well done) then Amanda (not so well done) then Vulcan ( I was at whatever by that point) so its pretty obvious this team are quite content hacking away chasing the cheap emotion.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Chekov gets it. Not because he’s in a red shirt (that would be acceptable!) but simply because the pace of the film had slacked and someone hadn’t died for a few minutes.
As for ‘face melting’? I’m sorry, what? John Travolta playing Khan? Now I really am bemused.

183. Anthony Thompson - December 19, 2012

And this one wasn’t written by JJ’s 14 year old nephew! ; )

184. Star Trek Nemesis blows, is the point - December 19, 2012

73. bytesaber – December 18, 2012

Paramount didn’t sell Star Trek to CBS.

Desilu made Star Trek, who in turn was bought by Gulf + Western. When Gulf + Western did that, Desilu/Gulf became Paramount Television. Since Gulf + Western owned Paramount Pictures, Paramount Pictures produced the Star Trek movies, as it does to this day. That company was reorganized in the 80s into Paramount Communications, which maintaned control over both television and movie production.

Viacom purchased Paramount in the mid-90s (and then launched UPN shortly thereafter). Viacom divested their control of Paramount in 2005. In doing that, they renamed Viacom as CBS Corporation, which maintained control of the television unit. The other portion was called Viacom, which took control of the film unit.

That’s why Star Trek is controlled by two different companies.

185. Star Trek Nemesis blows, is the point - December 19, 2012

73. bytesaber – December 18, 2012

So you see, Paramount didn’t sell Star Trek to CBS.

CBS is the original owner of Star Trek, and they license that product to Paramount Pictures to produce the movies.

186. Spockchick - December 19, 2012

@162. John Bliss
I love Faran Tahir, but we have seen him before. For me, a good Khan would be Bollywoood action hero Akshay Kumar.
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTg-_HulhjVJTPRfJFBSy6ds-yeN1NnGpfc6T59cqEsfs-ULNrg-Q

he is also a martial arts expert

187. NuWisdom - December 19, 2012

@105 why would the Organians threaten to de facto do the same thing in TOS? Yet it happened.

188. Garth Faction - December 19, 2012

168. Aaron

But the “face melting” could all point to Garth (and shape changing)

189. NuWisdom - December 19, 2012

@162. I agreed, which is why I wish he hadnt been cast as Robau. Here’s a good choice to be Khan though: Aussie actor Firass Dirani http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firass_Dirani

190. Spockchick - December 19, 2012

@188. NuWisdom
Wow! He is gorgeous. But I would like my Khan a little older. Montalban was 10 years older than Shatner and Nimoy.

191. chrisfawkes.com - December 19, 2012

Two things we know for sure.

1. Harrison is in Starfleet.

2. Harrison is much stronger than normal humans for reasons we will find out.

I am hoping Harrison is his real name and not a second option just because John Doe would have given too much away.

192. Captain Dunsel - December 19, 2012

The difference between the two synopses reminds me of a bit from an episode of “The West Wing”

NASA Public Affairs Guy: I don’t want to step on your toes; you don’t want to step on mine. We’re both writers.

Sam Seaborn: I suppose. If we expand the definition to those who can spell.

193. LogicalLeopard - December 19, 2012

190 Chrisfawkes

How do we know Harrison is stronger than a human? That leap on Quonos looks jet pack assisted.

194. Killamarshtrek - December 19, 2012

Khan’s motivation (revenge against earth for deposing him) is neither a noble cause, nor something the audience will feel sympathy for. On that basis alone, it can’t be Khan!

These guys aren’t stupid you know, far from it! They know exactly what we’ll think if they put “the needs of the many…’ line in the trailer or some Cryo tubes or 2 hands separated by glass or all the other Khan hints.

Bob Orci is probably texting Kurtzman as we speak saying ‘ You see Alex…told you they’d fall for that, hook, line and sinker!”

I’m guessing the Harrison character has/will lose someone very close to him as a result of Starfleets’s inaction/action due to the Prime Directive, that’s why the Prime Directive concept is introduced to the audience in the opening sequence. That’s a noble cause that we would have sympathy for.

How he exacts his revenge will probably involve the rogue ‘Black Ops’ element of Starfleet introduced in the comics & possibly some genetic enhancements aswell, but essentially, that’s the route this film is going down!

195. Grumpsonso - December 19, 2012

The mis-direction and drip feeding of info is such a great advertising stratergy! The fact that someone from Star Trek Canon could be placed into the film as an insignificant character to validate Orci’s orignal statement and thus keep the new protaganist intact would be a master stroke. The Canon character could just as easily be MUDD in an insignificant Bar scene or perhaps a Canon character who makes an appearance at the end to serve ST3. Either of these moves feels like the most likely outcome. Think I would serve a canon bad guy, especially one as big as Khan further into the franchise…maybe set him up in 2.
Glad to see the threat to Star Fleet and the attack on home soil goes with the story idea I posted 2years ago. Then again its not too far a throw to have guessed they would have come up with this anyway, and of course as also mentioned back then would serve to cripple Pike and give him either a heroic death or injury to spurn Kirk’s need for revenge.
But I really would like to see some way in the next films of incorporating a melevonent threat into the future stories along the line of VGER. This would probably be rather difficult to pitch to audiences hungry for Action and mayhem but I wonder if Mr Orci ever considered this and just felt it too difficult to pitch. The discussion of how to create a new and original threat to the crew in future films is an interesting debate. I would think this conumdrum is exactly how they kept Star Trek the series exciting on a daily basis. Mr Orci?

196. David B - December 19, 2012

Can’t John Harrison be Johnny from Star Trek 2009?

The other boy at the start…., because he was left behind by Kirk?

197. Mad Man - December 19, 2012

It’s pretty obvious that John Harrison is a fake name, like Miranda Tata or Henri Ducard. But who he is really is still unsure. I was in the Khan-camp for a while, but the ethnicity of the actor is the only thing that throws me off.

Unless Khan changed his appearance with some plastic surgery….

198. Yanks - December 19, 2012

@ 196. Mad Man – December 19, 2012

…and the fact that Khan was never in Star Fleet.

199. Trebax - December 19, 2012

I wonder if we’re possibly seeing the birth of Section 31 here…

200. The Snob - December 19, 2012

In May I made the following poster:

http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/383384_3879393832273_1968632607_n.jpg

In the months thereafter, the likelyhood of Khan being involved in the story of ID became less and less obvious, so it’s pretty amazing that the Khan-theories have resurfaced as they have! (Perhaps my poster will have some prophetic quality to it after all….. ;) )

201. Exverlobter - December 19, 2012

I am going to wonder how STID will perform against Fast and Furious 6 at the boxoffice. The last Fast and Furious was a smash hit, and could be dangerous for Treks success. Iron Man 3 however wil be already in theaters for a few weeks, so hope it won’t get in the way.

BTW Good that Trek was not released this year as planned, because The Avengers would have killed Star Trek like it sank Battleship!

202. The Snob - December 19, 2012

@200 There can be more than just 1 big hit movie in one year… ;)

203. BulletInTheFace - December 19, 2012

Fast and Furious? Heh. Star Trek has nothing to worry about.

204. Aix - December 19, 2012

Actually, isn’t Great Gatsby premiering on the 17th as well? And it looks good. I think Trek will still open at number 1 but it will have a slightly lower boxofficeA because of Gatsby.

205. Exverlobter - December 19, 2012

@202 BulletInTheFace

I do think that it can be indeed a dangerous competitor.
Worldwide boxoffice of Fast and Furious 5 (2011): $626,137,675
Worldwide boxoffice of Star Trek (2009) $385,680,446

Now they face-off. BTW it is actually interesting to see how fast Justin Lin made two sequels of his franchise while JJ Abrams, in the same time, made just one!

206. Aix - December 19, 2012

I mean, slightly lower opening box office.

207. Exverlobter - December 19, 2012

I dont think that The Great Gatsby will be a big problem, because it does not seem to aim at the Summer Blockbuster-audience on which Star Treks success is dependent on. Nemesis proved that Trekkies alone cannot refinance a Trek-FIlm anymore.

208. chrisfawkes.com - December 19, 2012

Gatsby isn’t blowing me away. It has Luhrmann’s style but no real feeling.

Not sure it will be as big as some of his past movies.

@ 192. I seem to remember pics of Harrison beating up Spock which would suggest he is stronger that the average human.

209. Sebastian S. - December 19, 2012

# 103 razzo

Khan was not part of the ST universe being ‘rebooted'; that splintered timeline happened when Kirk was born in 2233. Khan was a Khansicle aboard the Botany Bay long before then. So the character should be essentially the same man we saw in Space Seed.

And I see about a null minus 150 chance of that character joining Starfleet…

210. Starscream2112 - December 19, 2012

Maybe it is the aliens/parasites from the TNG episode Conspiracy. Did they give there host super strength?

211. Set Phasers to Troll - December 19, 2012

You guys are way off base. All of it is a red herring. I have seen blips and blurbs of the real synopsis and it reads as follows:

Here, James Kirk (Chris Pine) is a young apprentice Jedi knight under the tutelage of Christopher Pike (who should’ve been played by Liam Neeson); Chekov (That russian kid from the Fright Night remake), who will later father Yakov Smirnoff and become known as Space Lincoln, is just a nine-year-old boy. When Starfleet cuts off all routes to the planet Naboo, Pike and Kirk are assigned to settle the matter, but when they arrive on Naboo they are brought to Carol Marcus (not played by Natalie Portman), the Naboo queen, by a friendly but opportunistic Vulcan named Spock. Pike and Kirk plan to escort Carol to a meeting of Starfleet leaders in Coruscant, but trouble with their spacecraft strands them on the planet Tatooine, where Pike meets Chekov, the slave of a scrap dealer. Pike is soon convinced that the boy could be the leader of Starfleet he has been searching for, and he begins bargaining for his freedom and teaching the boy the lessons of the Force.

212. LogicalLeopard - December 19, 2012

207. chrisfawkes.com – December 19, 2012

@ 192. I seem to remember pics of Harrison beating up Spock which would suggest he is stronger that the average human.

**********************

I’m not denying that he is. My guess is that he’s genetically engineered. However, I do concede the fact that this could be all misdirection. Like I said, Harrison looks like he has a jet pack on Qo’noS, there’s a spark or something as he starts his “jump”, and then there looks like a blue glow on his back midway or toward the end of his descent. He hits the Klingon in the back of the legs with that device, which may be massive, but could have some sort of gravity assist with it (imagine how heavy weapon usage would change with anti-grav tech *L*)

So in the pictures, he looks like he’s beating up Spock, but a picture can’t capture you beating up anyone. It can show you striking someone, or standing over someone, but it can’t really show you beating someone up, unless you have a lot of them.

213. DeShonn Steinblatt - December 19, 2012

How is it that everything Khan-related is misdirection and everything not Khan-related is a golden nugget of truth? And why go overboard with so very, very much misdirection?

214. LogicalLeopard - December 19, 2012

@ 196. Mad Man – December 19, 2012

…and the fact that Khan was never in Star Fleet.

********************

I was an early subscriber to Khan with plastic surgery. It is feasable, Khan was never in Starfleet in the TOS timeline, but due to the Narada’s intervention destroying one ship, and almost certainly altering Starfleet’s patrol patterns, Khan could have been found the same day the Narada attacked. All it takes is Starfleet diverting one ship of it’s TOS course, where it missed the Botany Bay, to go and support the Kelvin, making it come across the BB’s course. Khan could have been thawed for 20-25 odd years, or however old Kirk is.

And if I was a thawed world dictator, the first thing I’d do is go get plastic surgery, so I wouldn’t have eight year olds in the spaceport going “Mommy, that guy looks like Khan! We learned about him in history class last week!”

215. LogicalLeopard - December 19, 2012

212. DeShonn Steinblatt – December 19, 2012
How is it that everything Khan-related is misdirection and everything not Khan-related is a golden nugget of truth? And why go overboard with so very, very much misdirection?

******************

I’m thinking it could go either way. But why so much misdirection in the first place? They want to keep people from figuring out what happens, probably, to amaze the viewers. Plus, I think they like engaging the intelligent, inquisitive fanbase of Star Trek in this manner.

Everything I thought about the level of misdirection that they were capable of changed with that “Are you the 1701″ easter egg they slid into Harrison’s cell scene. They COUNTED on someone to find it. So they are probably slipping all sorts of little tidbits into the conversation. I think Urban’s Gary Mitchell slip was planned too. It builds buzz. It’s good for business.

216. Yanks - December 19, 2012

@ 212. DeShonn Steinblatt – December 19, 2012

Because the overwhelming majority of us do not want it to be Khan.

That part has already been played, and played to perfection.

No problem with another “augment” type story though.

217. Exverlobter - December 19, 2012

BTW, Alice Eve has heterochromia (two different eye colors) which looks always gorgeous in my oppinion.
Does anybody know, if we get to see that, or do they use digitially altered eyes for Alice? That would suck.

218. martin - December 19, 2012

@154- Jimmy Kirk does yell “Johnny” but it is not too much of a stretch to hear it as “Georgie” to me.

I really don’t understand why JJ would not have him just yell SAM! It doesn’t really mean anything, but it would be a little thing out there for Trekkies and it could be used later if they wanted.

But now that I think about it – what if “Johnny” is John Harrison and Uncle Frank is Frank Harrison? Johnny is Jim’s cousin. Frank had promised John that the vette would be his, and Jim put it in the bottom of Riverside Gorge, so now John is seeking revenge in detonating the Star Fleet.

Ok, kidding about the last sentance there – it doesn’t explain why Johnny would have an accent, unless Johnny was running off to live with his mom who was in London.

219. msn1701 - December 19, 2012

Harrison appeared on the American TV show Elementary which is about SH.

Stop taunting us!! LOL

220. Sebastian S. - December 19, 2012

# 217

martin~

That’s a nice theory, and a “Johnny” character could easily be worked into a ST movie as Kirk’s cousin (under abusive Uncle Frank). But I seriously doubt that’s who Cumberbatch is playing. Unless Johnny learned to speak with a proper British accent at an Iowan boarding school?

But I agree with you that the Johnny character we saw in ST09 needn’t necessarily be Sam (unless you watched the deleted scenes; then you’re faced with a minor contradiction… unless “Johnny” was some kind of odd nickname between the Kirk boys).

221. Darmok - December 19, 2012

@198 Section 31 was around during Archer’s Enterprise years. I don’t recall if they were actually called Section 31 but during that time they said that it was recently formed. That elite group was referred to as “your section of Starfleet” or something like that. In those last few episodes, there was a big happening between, the Augments, the Klingons, Section 31 and genetic engineering.

222. SirBroiler - December 19, 2012

Kirk’s brother has appeared in the new ongoing comics that the writers contend is cannon. Cumberbatch is not Kirk’s brother.

223. Mad Man - December 19, 2012

Khan could have been found and revived by a non-Enterprise starship. Then, using his supreme intellect, take over said ship. A Kirk-less ship would be easy pickings for Khan (Reliant). Then, to avoid recognition, Khan would alter his appearance (and name) and join Starfleet to gain high-security access. Khan could start a new world-order from within Starfleet itself.

224. chrisfawkes.com - December 19, 2012

The hand on glass scene is the only Khan like suggestion. Everything else is wishful thinking by those who want Khan.

But it won’t be Khan because.

1. Khan does not have an english accent. Cumberbach is talented enough to do an accent if the role required it.

2. Khan was never in Starfleet.

3. Khan comes from a time when the technology was vastly inferior. He would have no power to offer healing to a child that medics in that time frame could not do better.

4. If it is Khan then they need to kill him by the end of the film just have a payoff. If that happens then there is no Wrath of Khan. No writer would go there.

Those are not golden nuggets they are the four undeniable facts that wipe all Khan theory off the map.

It was painfully cheap to have Spock using” the needs of the many…” line. I really wish they had not done that.

225. ScottC - December 19, 2012

I still think that cryotube scene is at the end of the movie and that is Khan on the left side walking out of the room, setting up a possible 3rd movie plot.

226. Yanks - December 19, 2012

@ 223. chrisfawkes.com – December 19, 2012

It was painfully cheap to have Spock using” the needs of the many…” line. I really wish they had not done that.
—————————————————————————————————————–

I don’t think so at all. A strong vulcan axium that should apply in this timeline as well.

Also a good “red-herring” to spin up all those nit-picky JJ-hate filled trekkies. :)

227. LogicalLeopard - December 19, 2012

But it won’t be Khan because.

1. Khan does not have an english accent. Cumberbach is talented enough to do an accent if the role required it.

2. Khan was never in Starfleet.

3. Khan comes from a time when the technology was vastly inferior. He would have no power to offer healing to a child that medics in that time frame could not do better.

4. If it is Khan then they need to kill him by the end of the film just have a payoff. If that happens then there is no Wrath of Khan. No writer would go there.

Those are not golden nuggets they are the four undeniable facts that wipe all Khan theory off the map.

**********************

Now, let me preface this by saying that I don’t think it’s Khan, I think it could be Khan related. That being said, those four “undeniable facts” are easily thwarted.

1) If Khan is disguising himself as Harrison, Khan is gifted enough to affect an English accent to go along with his backstory. Cumberbatch is also talented enough to have Harrison “drop” his English accent and use Khan’s accent, or an accent from whatever part of the world Khan is from.

2) With the new timeline changed at the point of the Narada’s conflict with the Kelvin, Starfleet patrol patterns were undoubtebly changed, so Khan could have been thawed a long time ago, adopted a disguise, and joined Starfleet to cause chaos from within.

3) Khan came from a time where genetically altered humans were being manufactured. He would probably have knowledge on how it was conducted in the past, which could help heal the daughter. It may not be an issue of the technology to save the daughter being available, it may be that it’s banned. Khan could have told you how to fix Julian Bashir, but it would have been illegal to do so. Plus, he can pick up any new tips, because he’s a quick learner. Don’t forget they took over an advanced warp capable starship and operated it pretty well.

4) The last isn’t a fact, it’s an opinion. There doesn’t NEED to be a “wrath of Khan”, because for all we know, this series wont go past the three movies it’s contracted to go. And if it does, you don’t have to rehash old movies. This movie would be the rehash, so you don’t need to go into it again. Perhaps TWOK was attempting to capitalize on one of TOS’s most popular episodes. Some would argue there’s no reason to go over it again, but I think we ALL would argue there’s no reason to go over it THREE times.

I don’t think it’s Khan, because I think they want to do the Khan story in a different way without using Khan himself. I think that satisfies the fanboyness and the ego of a writer. They may love TWOK, and want to pay homage to it, but they pay homage to it by using a different genetically engineered person. So, like ST09 stands on it’s own and pays homage to TOS, STID would stand on it’s own and pay homage to TWOK at the same time. And the non-Trekkies wouldn’t have a clue, but see a good action movie.

228. Gary S. - December 19, 2012

People are so sure it is Khan at this point that they are not considering anybody else .
That could be the purpose of all of the Khan misdirection .

229. Yanks - December 19, 2012

@ 227. Gary S. – December 19, 2012

People are so sure it is Khan at this point that they are not considering anybody else .
That could be the purpose of all of the Khan misdirection .
—————————————————————————————————————-
We’ll see how this pans out, but it could well be a very nice job of misdirection.

230. Chris - December 19, 2012

Harrison is spocks human brother

231. chrisfawkes.com - December 19, 2012

I think the movie would have to be three hours long if we are going to have Khan thawed and join starfleet. I can’t see that happening.

Possible that Khan is faking an english accent but not probable imo.

I don’t think they will ever remake TWOK but by erasing those events i think there would be too many unhappy trekkies.

Correct me if i’m wrong but i don’t think those who want this to be Khan also want to see him killed.

I take you point about the procedures may simply be banned.

Make that three undeniable facts.

232. Justomtav - December 19, 2012

Its def Khan why create an original character who is human with super powers when the source material has a back log of characters with the same traits. Also Benicio Del Toro was originally slated to play the role, and he looks exactly like Khan. Why pay obvious homage to Trek II in the trailers, in film nothing is done by mistake.

233. Yanks - December 19, 2012

@ 220. Darmok – December 19, 2012
@198 Section 31 was around during Archer’s Enterprise years. I don’t recall if they were actually called Section 31 but during that time they said that it was recently formed. That elite group was referred to as “your section of Starfleet” or something like that. In those last few episodes, there was a big happening between, the Augments, the Klingons, Section 31 and genetic engineering.
—————————————————————————————————————–
Reed never stated “your section” on a couple occassions. Once in ‘Affliction’ and once in “Terra Prime”. Harris explained it to Archer in ‘Divergence’.

HARRIS [on monitor]: Reread the Charter, Article 14, Section 31. There are a few lines that make allowances for bending the rules during times of extraordinary threat.

234. Yanks - December 19, 2012

Line-out “never” (face-palm)

235. Weller Weller Weller - December 19, 2012

Weller’s character is a CEO, by his own admission.

He probably has grand designs to take over the Federation using Khan/augments which his company stumbled across in this new timeline.

Weller says he has his own starship, which is probably the ship which we see Cumberbatch in.

Cumberbatch is an augment who was unfrozen to help Weller’s CEO character. Cumberbatch turns the tables on Weller’s character.

NOT Robert April. NOT Khan. NOT Gary Mitchell. NOT Garth of Izar.

‘Nuff said.

236. LogicallLeopard - December 19, 2012

I think the movie would have to be three hours long if we are going to have Khan thawed and join starfleet. I can’t see that happening.

************************

Doesn’t have to be much longer. It could be explained by a character within two minutes. “Kirk, I’m sure they taught you about the Eugenics Wars in school. Almost 200 years ago a handful of genetically altered humans almost took over the whole planet. They escaped Earth in a sleeper ship, which was found by the USS Exeter 20 years ago. The Exeter didn’t know who it was until it was too late. They slaughtered most of the crew and escaped. We’ve hunted down most of them, but the group’s leader, Khan Noonien Singh, is still at large. We now know that he’s altered his appearance, and has been posing as a Starfleet officer named John Harriman for the past seven years.

********

Possible that Khan is faking an english accent but not probable imo.

*******

Maybe not probable, I’ll give you that.

******

I don’t think they will ever remake TWOK but by erasing those events i think there would be too many unhappy trekkies.

********

Well, by virtue of the new timeline, most of the movies and events WILL be erased. Some things will still happen, like V’Ger will probably still come, and the Whale probe, but other things, like the TWOK, or the Search for Spock, etc may not happen. That’s the nature of the timeline change.

***************

Correct me if i’m wrong but i don’t think those who want this to be Khan also want to see him killed.

*****************

I don’t think so. If people want it to be Khan, they probably want to see Kirk defeat him just like last time.

237. martin - December 19, 2012

@220 –
Since JJ and Co had ST09 follow the storyline of Star Wars New Hope, JJ could just go back at some point, do another version on the DVD, and instead of having Kirk yell Johnny, he could clearly yell George. Then in four more years, release another version where Kirk yells Sam.

Then in ten years or so, Jim Kirk actually jumps the Gorge and lands on the other side, and then decides to take the Vette into a cross country race.

Sometimes it is just nice to be thankful that this is Star Trek and we can argue and nitpick about continuity instead of being forcefed sloppy changes every three years by some tyrant who made one good, one great and one decent movies and can’t leave them alone until he messes them up to match the crap of his later work.

238. Carlos - December 19, 2012

@235 Or Cumberbatch is one those embryos seen in ENT. I don’t think Weller will be this important to the plot but you’re one of the few making any sense in Trek Movie these days… Bloody hell!

This obsession with Conspiracy Theories is annoying. Did you guys ever heard of John Blake ? An “non-canon” character inspired by a “canon” character. Is in the same movie that you people use to justify this “Khan is like Talia” non sense.

Come on. I’m trekkie but Khan is a hell of cheesy bad-guy name for a 21st Century movie. Want TOS stuff ? Go support Star Trek Continues and Star Trek Phase II you buggers!

239. Adolescent Nightmare - December 19, 2012

I think part of the problem is that people don’t mind being constantly wrong because they can be anonymous on the internet. Look at all these new names we have never seen here before.

But still pleading that it could be anybody but you know who.

240. Factchecker - December 19, 2012

All this jibber jabber and nobody has brought up Mr. Leslie or his twin Connors who worked in sickbay. Suckers.

241. Factchecker - December 19, 2012

Noel Clark to “John Harrison”: Who are you?
JH: What do you mean?
NC: What is your name?
JH: My name?
NC: Yes. What is it?
JH: My name is….(gasp)….(breathing heavy)….(groaning)……SIMON……VAN…..GELDER…….
JH’s hair suddenly turns white.
CUT to next scene.

242. Curious Cadet - December 19, 2012

@232 Justomtav,
“Why pay obvious homage to Trek II in the trailers, in film nothing is done by mistake.”

You’re right, nothing is done by mistake. We’ve seen all of 2:00 of images from the trailers, probably 15% of them comprise references to TWOK. Do you seriously think they could not have found 18 seconds in over two hours of film that have NOTHNG to do with Khan, if they didn’t want to make an obvious attempt to make us think its Khan? The filmmakers don’t want us to know who the villain is, people here even suggest they have given us a fake name to keep the secret as long as possible, yet the filmmakers have all but hung a sign around the villain’s neck that says “Hello My Name Is Khan”. Why would they do that if it was actually Khan? 18 seconds of a two hour movie is no evidence of anything, except these guys like to pay homage to TOS (as the last film made abundantly clear), and seem to be conveniently using these 18 seconds as an obvious smoke screen.

That said, yes this could be a misdirect misdirection, and they could be trying to get us to think its so obvious it’s Khan that we won’t think it’s Khan because it really is Khan, but my point is that there is more than one way to interpret these trailers.

243. TheMightyChip - December 19, 2012

@235 – Weller Weller Weller: Can there be a CEO in a money-less society? Can there be corporations? If Weller is a CEO (esp. one rich enough to own a starship) does that mean that in the Abrams universe Earth is back to using a more traditional economy? Or is Weller perhaps an alien from a capitalist planet?

Point being, If Weller is a CEO that raises a lot of complications. Do you have any links or references where he said that?

244. Exverlobter - December 19, 2012

@TheMightyChip

Even in the Prime-Timeline exists money in the 23th century. In Abrams-Timeline there will be definitely money.
BTW i think this early TNG Pseudo-Marxist -crap was ridicolous anyway.
Lets retcon that.

245. RaveOnEd - December 19, 2012

To go another way, could the cryo chambers be this universe’s Elba II?

Something where Harrison is defeated and sent there for some form of treatment?

246. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 19, 2012

There is some peculiar obsession with this Khan character, so even if people say they don’t want Khan to be in this movie, they keep *seeing* stuff that they think must relate to Khan. Certainly there are little scenes that may remind one of a scene from another Star Trek movie or episode, however there is no logical reason why those scenes have to have anything to do with the original scene they remind people of.

Tubes of various kinds would probably be quite common place by 23rd century – transportation device (cramped, but ref. TNG); futuristic coffin; medical quarantine pod, escape pod.

If John Harrison is able to offer a cure for *progeria (rapid aging), then perhaps he also has a way of infecting people with this disease – on a large scale.

As for Bob Orci’s “face-melting” comments, well, that could be interpreted in various ways, ie shape shifting abilities OR it might also mean what happens to people’s faces if they are exposed to high levels of radiation, plasma fire etc. It is possible that both may occur in this movie.

*Progeria
https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=progeria&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

247. Curious Cadet - December 19, 2012

@236 LogicallLeopard,
“We now know that he’s altered his appearance, and has been posing as a Starfleet officer named John Harriman for the past seven years.”

Here’s the problem with this … Yes he can change his face (something I don’t believe Khan would ever do, but sure he can). However, here comes a guy with no past, who is going to raise a few eyebrows when joins Starfleet and takes his physicals. I would find this story hard to believe today if a spy tried to join the military. Sure Mission Impossible does this kind of thing all the time. But lets get real. He can’t just join Starfleet with no background. red flags would go up on day one. So that leaves a genetically modified superman, who lets say kills legit Starfleet officer John Harrison, and assumes his identity with “face melting”. But none of Harrison’s friends, family, girlfriends, etc. notice, because Khan has studied every detail, every mannerism of the guy, and is such a good actor nobody notices. He’s even body-melted his physique so that he’s not physically outstanding anymore, unless he picked John Harrison for his body in the first place, or he’s a method actor like Cristian Bale in the “Machinist”. So lets say all that happens, then for seven years, Harrison manages to skirt every mandatory physical exam, avoids every security body scanner throughout Starfleet, so nobody notices he’s an enhanced human, because he’s otherwise so good at imitating John Harrison. And nobody notices John Harrison’s interests have dramatically changed. He goes missing during his off hours and has been spotted lurking around hospitals. Yet year after year, Khan disguised as Harrison punches the clock at his tedious Starfleet desk job, laughing inside about how he’s going to finally get his revenge.

Yeah, I don’t see this at all.

And it’s not because it can’t be done, but the convolutions required to make this happen are ridiculous, it’s just that it shouldn’t be done.

248. TheMightyChip - December 19, 2012

@244 Exverlobter: I’m only like a bachelor’s level trekkie, so correct me if I’m wrong, but I always thought that the Federation government was the only entity with money, for the purpose of trading with other governments. I thought that individual citizen’s lived completely money-free.

Also, for the record, the “TNG Psudo-Marxist-crap” always bugged me too, but it was a big part of Roddenberry’s philosophy so I always figured it should be left alone.

249. Jack - December 19, 2012

239. At the end of the day, so what if they’re wrong? It’s all just a guessing game. Nobody, unless they worked on the darned thing (or have been digging through Benedict Cumberbatch’s garbage) knows for sure. Granted, some of the logic is a little off (“He has black hair, therefore he can only be Khan!”) but, meh, let ‘em guess.

And yeah, the Mitchell stuff was kind of silly (and is still popular on other sites) — the idea being that ‘one man force of destruction,’ or whatever, must mean magical mind powers — but these are guesses in a blog’s comments section. It’s just fanwank — each of us wants to show that we watched those episodes better and harder than everyone else did.

250. Toothless Grishnar Cat - December 19, 2012

CEO= Chief Executive Officer
Weller has stated he has his own starship.
Thus, Weller= a captain, possibly Capt. April or Capt. Garth.

251. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 19, 2012

I wonder if the person on our side of the *glass* has this disease (maybe Kirk even) because John Harrison has genetically engineered this disease to skip the procreation stage. At the moment, the only way someone can have progeria is by being born with the genetic fault and it can only passed on through procreation. Skip that step…scary indeed. Genetically engineer it to become something akin to the common cold?

252. Phil - December 19, 2012

@246. Well, that might be because after 2009 JJ and Co. dropped some Khan hints, and some elements of the fan base ran with it to the point that it’s taken on a life of it’s own. Say what you want about Trek09, it’s a fairly lineal story, and where and where sci-fi tech (red matter) is introduced it’s just treated as a prop. Look at all the pretzel-twisting logic and rationalization that is going on with the tiny bit of known information , being used to shoehorn Khan into the movie. Given the writers background, I suspect this movie will be a fairly lineal story as well – they may have borrowed from Trek lore to create the story (eugenics), but I doubt that a character named Khan is making an appearance. I think JJ has put a masterful spin on this, for better or worse, that is doing exactly what he wanted it to do, get people talking about the movie.

253. Curious Cadet - December 19, 2012

@248 TheMightyChip,

Haha @ “bachelor’s level Trekkie”

That would make sense. Like the USA in our present global economy, there are other nations with concerns we don’t really have in is country. Obviously there are worlds within and outside the federation at different levels of development that rely on money.

However, the line about not having money on Earth came from TNG. By the 24th century, I can certainly imagine that money is all but eliminated. I mean if they have machines that can replicate anything from a pile of atoms, then that’s all anybody needs, especially if power is not an issue with hydrogen fuel cells, which can themselves be replicated, along with new replicator machines. Once the infrastructure is in place, there’s not a lot left. This assumes then that people do everything else for altruistic reasons, and that’s not entirely ridiculous, especially where our educational priorities are different. Perhaps the only motivation for people in the 24th century (besides their own personal goals), is where they live. Maybe depending on how many hours you contribute to society, determines your eligibility for a housing lottery to choose the housing you prefer. But money itself would be otherwise pointless in such a society.

Neverhtheless there is no such evidence in the 23rd century that this is the case. And the one device needed to maintain such a cashless society — the replicator — does not yet exist as seen in TOS. Multinational corporations and the military industrial complex are no doubt as pervasive as they are today. Indeed, “credits” are referenced in the context of money throughout TOS, again perhaps as an intergalactic means of exchange, but I suspect that while heavily subsidized by the Federation, civilians in particular still very much rely on money and jobs in the 23rd century.

254. Curious Cadet - December 19, 2012

@251 Rose,
“I wonder if the person on our side of the *glass* has this disease (maybe Kirk even) because John Harrison has genetically engineered this disease to skip the procreation stage. At the moment, the only way someone can have progeria is by being born with the genetic fault and it can only passed on through procreation. Skip that step…scary indeed. Genetically engineer it to become something akin to the common cold?”

I’ve been wondering this too. The hand in that scene is in a darkened room, and the brig we have seen is anything but. Not that a prisoner can’t turn off the lights, but an alternative way at looking at that glass would be a quarantine room, and putting the two in the same trailer out of context helps reinforce the idea of it being a brig and Harrison.

But yeah, everyone is jumping on the Khan/augment, genetically-enhanced-superhuman thing. What if it boils down to good old disease, and a cure only Harrison can administer, because he’s the one who created it? What if he infected Noel’s daughter in the first place?

As for having “superhuman” strength … Who in an official capacity has said this? Cumberbatch has only said his character has “extraordinary physical powers”. Compared to me, Jason Bourne has “extraordinary physical powers”. I think it’s the “has-to-be-Khan” folks who assume this can only mean he’s a genetically enhanced superman.

255. Travis - December 19, 2012

I think im beggining to probably understand this story! Lets do this in serveral steps!

1: Based on the second ( Trailer #2 ) we can now almost confirm in one screen shot that the Cryotubes are indeed no longer caskets but Cryotubes of Augments of the Botany Bay! If you look closely on the 2 individuals walking away from the Cryotubes… the one on the left looks very built and has a black ponytail… Hint: KHAN has awakin! aka… John Harrision! Also too in the TOS episode Space Seed… a name John Harrision was present and also Khan did indeed wear a Starfleet Uniform!

2: Peter Weller’s character i believe is not Khan but more to John Fredrick Paxton… leader of Terra Prime! Khan may be his only weapon in taking down the Federation by ready for this… waking up Khan and restarting the Eugenics Wars!

3: The apperence of the Klingons are tricky but i do believe that Krutzman and Ocri loved the 3-part Augment series from Enterprise Season 4! Its entirely possible that Terra Prime or Khan might be using the Klingons as bait for the Federation… espically the Enterprise!

4: As much as i hate to say this The Enterprise will be destoryed! I have heard from numerous people on this site, Youtube that a REFIT Consitution Class vessel will be built… Hence… U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701-A. I do believe we may see the Enterprise-A in drydock before this movie ends! this may be a hint on a 3rd film!

5: Lets not forget Leonard Nimoy because Old Spock is in this film! I have also heard Project Genesis is a Go which means someone could die and be brought back to life due to Dr. carol marcus’s… Protomatter! it is possible but the only one i see dieing is Old Spock! Time for him to go!!

256. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 19, 2012

Perhaps the weapon of mass destruction is a biological one. Drs Carol Marcus and McCoy need to team up to find a way to stop it.

257. Jane - December 19, 2012

Speculation is fun, but seriously – the only people who know what the film’s about and who plays which character are the folk who made it. What drives me nuts about fandom (and it’s a universal disease!) is the way folk latch onto an idea or a desire and convince themselves it’s The Truth. And when they see the actual film (or episode) and it doesn’t match their personal fantasy, they take it out on the folk who are telling the story. And on anyone who actually likes that story for what it is. That’s the dark and smelly side of fandom. Can’t we have less of it?????

FWIW, I love Trek in all its incarnations. I didn’t know what to expect from the reboot and to my delight I loved it. (Well, except the ice animal chase. That didn’t work for me. But whatever.) I’m thrilled by the trailer and the hints it’s dropping. May is a long way away.

And here’s a thought. The hand-to-hand shot. I’m going to take a leap and say I really think it’s Kirk and Spock. And leaping further, I’m going to wonder – what if this is a flip of the Wrath of Khan moment? The shot is taken from inside to outside, I think, if lighting is a guide. Human hand inside, Vulcan hand outside. What if it’s Kirk making the sacrifice this time, and the shot is from his point of view? MIght be a fun play on the WOK events, where that sequence was from outside the chamber (also from Kirk’s pov, as the one being sacrificed for) given that this film is apparently a coming into his own story for reboot Kirk. It seems that reboot Spock already knows that sometimes you don’t win, sometimes you die, sometimes the one gives his life for the many. Reboot Kirk has never accepted that, as he’s never accepted his father’s death. Could be this is when he has his own true Kobyashi Maru moment, and does the final bit of growing up he had to do. If Spock in the volcano prepared to let go of life is the opening gambit, then is the closing gambit Kirk making the same choice to save his crew?

Maybe? But like I said, speculation is fun, but dangerous!

258. Curious Cadet - December 19, 2012

@256 Rose,

Again, as usual, very astute observation. Biological threats are much more relevant to today’s audiences with drug resistant bacteria on the rise, as well as terrorist biological attacks since 9/11. I would think it would be much more frightening to a modern audience than genetic augmentation.

What if Harrison is himself a carrier. Anybody who comes into contact with him, spreads the disease and dies themself. Doesn’t preclude traditional destructive terrorism, but it does make him a WMD without so-called superpowers, or access to actual WMDs.

259. M.R.S. Johnson - December 19, 2012

*sigh* This movie does not I repeat does not have KHAN. It may be KHAN like but not khan. Yall keep eating what JJ keeps feeding ya. Lol

260. enterprise1965 - December 19, 2012

@31 Khan was exiled before the timeline change (Kelvin).

261. Exverlobter - December 19, 2012

@TheMightyChip
@Curcious Cadet

Here is an interesting article about the Money-less Federation in the TNG-ERA.
I think its funny how the author points out that the federation is likely to develop into some kind of evil totalitarian state, lol.
Yeah, having a close look at it Roddenberrys vision is not very well thought out.

http://theemptiness.info/2011/03/socialism-a-love-story-star-trek/

262. Curious Cadet - December 19, 2012

@243 TheMightyChip,

As for links where where Weller said he was a CEO, I thought I had recalled he had recently said it himself in an interview, but the only reference I have is 6 months ago and by his agent, not Weller himself …

http://trekmovie.com/2012/05/12/exclusive-peter-weller-drops-hints-about-his-star-trek-sequel-character/

So his agent could have gotten it wrong.

Also, if Weller is a CEO, that doesn’t necessarily imply money. A chief executive officer can manage anything, whether it makes money or not.

Moreover, thinking about how this could apply to a cashless society, part of John Harrison’s problem could be with Weller and his relationship with Starfleet. While money may be all but non-essential for life on Earth, it could be at the expense of literal third-world planets where Starfleet has outsourced material needs, ore mining and the like (think Devil in the Dark, or The Coud Minders) with a guy like Weller. Having money in the galaxy almost assures one of a life that can’t be found on an Utopian-minded society found on Earth. Living an extravagant multi-billionaires’ lifestyle in the 23rd century might require going off-world. I’m thinking of most of the world’s present day relationship with China, and the working conditions there which were all but ignored by the USA until quite recently. Lets say Weller engages in all sorts of unethical business practices, but Starfleet looks the other way because they need their dilithium, or whatever. And Harrison seeks to correct this imbalance.

263. Paul M - December 19, 2012

I’ve figured out who BC’s character is. British, helps Noel Clarke, means… The Doctor…

Sorry, Couldn’t resist…

264. The Snob - December 19, 2012

Wasn’t there a rumor ages ago that the film would deal with Kronos and an infestation of flesh eating Tribbles… No joke, I remember reading it (though perhaps the original rumor was meant as a joke…). Since Kronos is definately involved, any chances we will be seeing these dangerous carnivorous Tribbles… It sounds stupid, but done right, I think it could be a gem (like the bug scene in King Kong).

265. The Snob - December 19, 2012

Here is a link to that rumor:

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/GraphicCity/news/?a=49950

(Just in case anyone thought I was trolling with this…)

266. TheMightyChip - December 19, 2012

@Exverlobter, Curious Cadet, and anyone else who answered me that I might have missed:

Thanks for clearing all that up and for linking me some search material. I guess you’re right…. a 100% money-free society is utterly impossible unless you have a miracle technology like a replicator (although little known fact: the replicator still needed stores of raw elements to build objects from, so it doesn’t *completely* remove all need from society).

I’m really digging the “bio-terror” theories… Like many have already said, it would hit a little closer to home than genetic manipulation and it would explain a lot of what we know about the movie so far.

267. sean - December 19, 2012

I’m pretty sure Alice Eve is playing a version of Harry Mudd thats got turned into womans.

268. Missing Point - December 19, 2012

Darkness, terror, a personal score to settle? This is Star Trek?

“Blockbuster films are increasingly dark and ‘gritty,’ to infuse them with a sense of ‘realism.’ Of late I have noted a reliance on depictions of pain and suffering to connect with the audience on a more visceral level, to convince them that what they are witnessing on the screen is more than fiction. These type of depictions no longer seem to have a genre (or story) specific character, and show up all over the map. Of course, the more common these depictions become, the less we respond to them, and the more intense they must be to elicit any response at all.

Inundated with images of violence and cruelty, our dominant narrative one of competition and conflict – are we losing our ability to envision alternatives? Politics, entertainment, & marketing have become indistinguishable, their influence on our lives so omnipresent that it is increasingly difficult to recognize their presence. The privatization of education is but another step in this process, another method for restricting our perception of ‘reality.’ Many parents & teachers believe that they are preparing children for ‘the real world,’ sparing them future suffering by forcing them to follow the rules. But the resulting stigmatization of difference, of resistance, of creativity can create a confusing impasse. We encourage them to be the best, to excel, to stand out from the crowd while we simultaneously demand they fit in. How are their young minds to make sense of this contradiction? Are we teaching them to create their own reality or simply accept the ones marketed to them?”

More here:
http://whatisthemissingpoint.blogspot.com/2012/12/are-we-courageous-enough-to-face-why.html

269. Curious Cadet - December 19, 2012

@266 TheMightyChip,

Exactly, so far, the only official statement with respect to John Harrison’s strength is that he has “extraordinary physical powers”, which could mean nothing more than saying Usaon Bolt has extraordinary physical powers. There is only a single still photo with Spock applying the neck pinch, that may or may not be followed by a collapse of Cumberbatch, or a pull away from Spock getting a good grip as has happened before in TOS. The :03 clip we have seen in only one trailer of Harrison leaping which appears to show a Superhuman leap, might very well be with technological assitance, or more easily explained by camera angle and creative editing. But otherwise no actual examples of undeniable superhuman strength.

Indeed I find it interesting that they have taken that particular sequence out of the longer mainstream trailer shown in theaters. Arguably the teaser trailer which is available online only was targeted directly at Star Trek fans, than the longer trailer targeted at a wider audience. Curious then that the only visual proof of alleged superhuman strength and high intensity action combat fighting was removed for a wider audience considering the trailer is even longer (and the clip was only :03). Could it be that the disingenuous way the fight sequence was edited out of order to seem even more superhuman than it actually is was something the filmmakers do not want to imply for a general audience who might then build-up expectations for that in the film? Could it be that showing a longer, properly edited fight sequence would disprove the false inference that Harrison has superhuman abilities? I mean, audiences love explosions, but they love hand-to-hand combat even more (if the sucessful MMA phenomenon offers any proof).

Indeed they have replace a single shot of Harrison allegedly exhibiting superhuman powers with one of Kirk beating the crap out of Harrison. I say again, pummeling Harrison to the ground. That’s pretty good for a normal guy like Kirk against a guy with superhuman strength.

Seems to me then, that the deceptively edited shots of Harrison battling the Klingons in the teaser trailer was just that, a tease, and a tease aimed squarely at the fans at that to further convince them the villain is really Khan.

270. Jax Maxton - December 19, 2012

@257

I’m thinking the same thing. If Harrison and Kirk are related, and Kirk’s arc in this movie is to learn about the importance of “family”, then Harrison’s line abt “what would you do for your family” is answered when Kirk prepares to make the ultimate sacrifice. Although I refuse to believe they would ever kill off Kirk, obviously.

271. TheMightyChip - December 19, 2012

@269 Curious Cadet: I’m right there with you. I’m not 100% convinced he’s not super-human, but I’m kinda really strongly hoping that’s the case.

…I really don’t want a Khan story.

272. Curious Cadet - December 19, 2012

@271 TheMightyChip,

For the record, neither am I. It could be Khan, or Harrison could be superhuman — i definitely haven’t ruled it out. But the more I see the pro-Khan camp attempting to shoehorn Khan into what we’ve seen, the more I see logical alternatives to what appears to be a purposeful misdirection. And I’m just not willing to blindly follow Abrams down the rabbit hole here. Other options are both more interesting and more appealing than any kind of retconed Khan story, which is frankly less than what I’m expecting from people as talented as in this filmmaking team.

273. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 19, 2012

Is there anything in the synopsis that says that John Harrison has super-human strength?

Thank you, Curious Cadet. Yes, you are right – John Harrison would, in all likelihood, have access to more conventional weaponry as well.

It does seem that Harrison is pissed off with Starfleet and humanity as a whole? My own theory is that his genetic manipulation/engineering research work was stopped by Starfleet. This may have come just when he had made a breakthrough in finding a cure for the human disease, progeria. However, maybe by doing a deal with the Klingons, they allowed him to continue his research which did not just include a cure for progeria, but things of a more sinister nature, like what I suggested in a previous post.

Perhaps Harrison manages to infect Kirk, hence the scene where *he appears to be in a quarantine facility. It is possible that Spock may also be infected, but not a carrier (his Vulcan DNA), but could account for why he may not be as physically capable/strong as he might normally be, hence the appearance of this (Cumberbatch) Harrison having extra strength over a Vulcan. Spock is not as susceptible to the longer term debilitating effects of the disease (Vulcan DNA again).

My own theory/scenario (which, of course, could be totally skewed) is that John Harrison tries out his new biological weapon on a small human colony (with Klingon assistance) where James Kirk’s *mother, brother and his family* are living. The colony is attacked and Kirk’s family are given the disease (the genetically engineered form of progeria). The experiment is a *success*… James Kirk finds out what happened to his immediate family, perhaps when the Enterprise is called back to earth because of the threat and attacks. Unfortunately, James Kirk, filled with anger and grief, becomes a bit of a loose cannon, something that some of Starfleet hierarchy feared. Pike tries to rein him in…

Only Harrison has the antedote, as well as the cure for the naturally occurring disease, which he offers to Noel Clarke’s character, at a price.

* I have not seen the later ongoing comic series, but I believe that Kirk’s brother (and family?) is not living on earth, but on a Federation planet with a colony of humans. Maybe Mum (now retired) is with him…

Not able to really fathom, at this stage, Harrison’s motivations for whatever crimes he commits. However, it is possible that a family member (perhaps his own daughter) may have had progeria. Stopping his research, perhaps because of other less desirable aspects, meant that finding the cure was delayed and so she died as a result. This is what may have “broken the camel’s back”…

Anyway, that’s my call so far…don’t know how it ends, apart from the desperate desire to have “my captain” live!

274. dmduncan - December 19, 2012

Harrison has superhuman strength. You have to misdirect yourself to miss it. The leap he takes in the trailer is not humanly possible. It’s a special effect, not an “illusion” produced by camera angle and movement. The arc of that leap is insane.

And Cumberbatch even said it. His character has “extraordinary physical powers.” That’s a quote.

So the question about his strength has been answered.

275. dmduncan - December 19, 2012

And once again, Harrison is NOT KHAN!!! The Botany Bay had 85 people on board. All of them canon, but lacking names and stated skills/abilities.

That’s a frakkin garden salad of opportunities right there.

276. dmduncan - December 19, 2012

Too many fans focusing on the lettuce.

277. Justomtav - December 19, 2012

@Curious Cadet

You are correct…however for me the fact that Del Toro was originally going to play the villain, coupled with the Human with super power traits of the character…..Its gon be KHAAANNN!!!!

278. Curious Cadet - December 19, 2012

@274 dmduncan
“Harrison has superhuman strength. You have to misdirect yourself to miss it. The leap he takes in the trailer is not humanly possible. It’s a special effect, not an “illusion” produced by camera angle and movement. The arc of that leap is insane. And Cumberbatch even said it. His character has “extraordinary physical powers.” That’s a quote. So the question about his strength has been answered.”

Thanks for your input, but I know what I believe at this point and don’t need to be convinced of something else. I even quoted Cumberbatch myself. So I’m well aware of how others perceive it. The leap is exactly 42 frames, and taken completely out of context. It is only present in the online trailer targeted at fans only, and is not in the general audience extended trailer release in theaters. Something’s not entirely kosher about that for me. You don’t have to agree, and I don’t care either way.

Bottom line, seeing something green in ones sandwich does not automatically make it lettuce.

And for the record there may be at least 5 genetic supermen in stasis right on Earth (or elsewhere), all of them canon, so no need to head necessarily into deep space to tell an augment story that mentions the name “Khan”.

279. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 19, 2012

That leap did not seem superhuman. In fact, I can imagine any number of very ordinary tall people make such a leap. Going through reinforced glass could be a problem but not if someone was coming at with strength. Don’t forget the effect that adrenaline can have on any ordinary human body as well… On that terrible 9/11 day, people were throwing themselves out of the Twin Towers reinforced glass windows in order to escape the flames…:(

I am coming back as to why Spock is down in a volcano. He is not a vulcanologist and volcanoes seem to be something that earth does have in common with many, many other worlds within our galaxy.

This is just another planet with volcanic activity – or is it – maybe a *cloaked* weapons experimental facility on the far side of a planet where a small pre-warp civilization population exists? Perhaps the prime directive has already been violated and this is what Enterprise discovers during a routine exploratory mapping mission…Ships sensors can’t get an accurate reading on what exactly is going on, hence Spock making a firsthand investigation, dangerous as it is. Just a thought.

280. Disinvited - December 19, 2012

#216. Yanks

The idea of one singular performance forcing a script to retire its number only flies in complete ignorance of the history of how the dramatic arts came to be and what by that history they are meant to be.

The prime motivation to revist a script is to honor it – not best it.

We would not even be discussing Cumberbatch if he hadn’t revisited a character, Sherlock Holmes, that many, myself included, felt had already been definitively portrayed.

#246. Rose

But the Federation has never been shown to use cryonics – they use stasis tech which while similar is more efficient and doesn’t have telltale frost.

#247. Curious Cadet

I think you are confusing your Trek tech history because in 5 or so years Arne Darvin, a Klingon spy, is going to do all that which you claim Khan can’t and he in no way is human.

281. dmduncan - December 19, 2012

You’re overthinking it. Your decision. I’m not trying to change your mind. That’s not my schtick. It’s just surprising to me when people get stuck behind the obvious. You can believe whatever you want and the facts will remain what they are. Harrison ain’t turning into a talking blue elephant from Titan because somebody made up their mind that’s what he really is.

When you say the leap “is only present in the online trailer targeted at fans only, and is not in the general audience extended trailer release in theaters,” it sounds like you think they made that scene up to trick you.

Okey doke!

282. dmduncan - December 19, 2012

279. Rose (as in Keachick) – December 19, 2012

That leap did not seem superhuman. In fact, I can imagine any number of very ordinary tall people make such a leap.

***

What you imagine in your head that is possible and what people really can do are not the same thing. I don’t know how familiar you are with the jumping sports or real athletics, Rose, but I am quite familiar with them.

Michael Jordan couldn’t make that leap.

And there are no rockets under his heels.

283. dmduncan - December 19, 2012

In other words, if you have a man who can do a qualifying pole-vault leap…without using a pole? THAT is superhuman. THAT man does something no ordinary man can do.

284. Craiger - December 19, 2012

#282 – Also gravity.

285. Craiger - December 19, 2012

I wonder if Trek fans will be dissapoint if no Khan and John Harrison doesn’t have enhanced genetic engineering. He turns out being just a rouge Starfleet Officer that doesn’t like Starfleet’s policies.

286. Disinvited - December 19, 2012

#282. dmduncan

Maybe if he had his AirJordans on? I mean, surely by the 23rd century rocket assist isn’t the only tech around that could aid in making that leap?

287. Captain Thomas Evans - December 19, 2012

I think it’s Kirk’s mum who dies because pretty sure she would be the ‘Kirk has no family apart from his crew’…

288. Curious Cadet - December 19, 2012

@280 Disinvited,
“Arne Darvin, a Klingon spy, is going to do all that which you claim Khan can’t and he in no way is human.”

Again, I’m not saying Khan can’t, I’m saying its problematic. Much more problematic than it was in 1967 before DNA was being used, as today’s audiences aren’t going to roll with that so easily.

Another point in fact, Arne Darvin was not in Starfleet. He was a civilian, serving as an assistant to a Federation politician. Now, I suspect by today’s standards an assistant to a politician might even be given all sorts background checks. But if you are at all familiar with diplomatic immunity, it’s entirely possible that the politicians even in the 23rd century, insulate themselves from the kind of scrutiny someone in Starfleet would endure. This would fly a lot more easily than being in the military, again by today’s standards. Not what they did in 1967. It’s been done, but can’t really be done again quite so easily with a modern audience accustomed to watching CSI on a regular basis.

289. captainedd - December 19, 2012

IMHO, John Harrison is the grandson of John Paxton, the leader of the Terra Prime organization which tried to force other species from Earth. With the destruction of Vulcan, it is possible that he sees this as an opportunity to disband the Federation from within and isolate Earth from the rest of the Galaxy. The cryotubes are for the members of Terra Prime who went into hiding. That scene which shows the two men leaving the bay are no other than John Harrison and John Paxton…preparing to free their fellow members of the organization.

290. dmduncan - December 19, 2012

286. Disinvited – December 19, 2012

Ha! I think Harrison probably wears the set of Air Jordans he brought with him from the 20th century!

You can imagine any scenario you want to explain that leap in some other way, but the only true explanation is the one in the film.

I.e., if the character is a genetic super villain from the Botany Bay, like Khan.

When Cumberbatch says his character has “extraordinary physical power,” I don’t think he’s lying or misdirecting, and I think that is exactly what Harrison will demonstrate more of in the film because that is what he has already demonstrated in the first trailer.

291. thomoz - December 19, 2012

Harrison was tortured or killed by Khan in Space Seed.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0895400/#Actor

292. Disinvited - December 19, 2012

#288. Curious Cadet.

But keep in mind even today in the U.S. Military, you don’t have to be a citizen to sign up and age fudging is rampant.

And it’s a safe bet that a sizable portion of the target demographic believes it is possible that a sitting U.S. President may have forged his own qualifying documents – and he’s the head of the military.

I don’t think it would be as hard to sell Khan’s subterfuge as you think.

293. Curious Cadet - December 19, 2012

@281 dmduncan,
“the facts will remain what they are. Harrison ain’t turning into a talking blue elephant from Titan because somebody made up their mind that’s what he really is. When you say the leap “is only present in the online trailer targeted at fans only, and is not in the general audience extended trailer release in theaters,” it sounds like you think they made that scene up to trick you.”

Wow, it’s getting “schticky” in here!

I haven’t seen any irrefutable facts. I see 42 frames open for interpretation which can be explained in any number of ways, including being superhuman. But that isn’t the only interpretation as I see it.

I do not believe the shot itself was done specifically to fool the fans, that’s ridiculous. I do believe however that there is a strong possibility that the explanation for why the tightly trimmed 42 frames is cut out of sequence with the following 17 frames, is to suggest something other than is depicted in the actual movie, like superhuman strength.

Again, I find it curious that none of those fighting sequences are included in the extended theatrical trailer, nor any other suggestion of Harrison possessing “superhuman” strength. Instead what I see is clear evidence that Kirk is able to easily pummel this allegedly superhuman man to the ground. This all makes me question what I am being presented, and whether smoke and/or mirrors are being used. And I have concluded, for now that there are indeed tricks being used to alter the facts, which in this case could very easily have more than one explanation.

For now, I’m not convinced what they have shown us is proof of anything, and indeed their actions, and measured actions and responses do seem intended to mislead and/or trick us.

Since I have nothing to prove, I am more than happy to sit back and wait for the next piece of evidence before I chose to put this particular piece of the puzzle in solved column.

294. dmduncan - December 19, 2012

And we have at least TWO other leaps in the trailers: Kirk and McCoy off the cliff, and Spock off the building, both of which looked totally normal for ordinary humans to make. There was no fantastic skyward leap.

So those other leaps act as a baseline for what constitutes “normal” in the movie. If everyone was doing Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon flying around the forest stuff, then I’d say there was an exaggerated sense of reality in the athletic abilities of ALL the characters. But there’s no evidence of that, and Harrison’s leap is markedly different from the others. So he stands out with special ability.

295. Disinvited - December 19, 2012

#290. dmduncan

Well, as I am sure the stunt people who have to actually make the leap might attest: It’s not the springboard assist for which you need to be in peak form, but the landing.

296. dmduncan - December 19, 2012

293: “I do not believe the shot itself was done specifically to fool the fans, that’s ridiculous. I do believe however that there is a strong possibility that the explanation for why the tightly trimmed 42 frames is cut out of sequence with the following 17 frames, is to suggest something other than is depicted in the actual movie, like superhuman strength. ”

Such as? We saw the platform they were fighting on from which he leaps, and the shot begins with him about a foot already in the air and what looks like a Klingon gun shot bursting on the platform where his feet were. There’s no explosion propelling him off the platform, I don’t think he’s got a trampoline with him up there, and you can see no flames are coming from the clearly visible soles of his shoes, which ruins the Iron Man boot scenario for me. And whatever happens immediately before that cut has to happen fast because he’s already in the air when that shot begins, so there’s not a lot of time in a fast action shot for infinite possibilities to develop

It looks like he just leaps to evade the shot the Klingon is taking.

“Instead what I see is clear evidence that Kirk is able to easily pummel this allegedly superhuman man to the ground. ”

That’s not what I see. I see a superhuman who LETS himself be pummeled to the ground, accepting the justification of Kirk’s anger. That does not imply weakness or inability, it implies SOME acceptance of punishment for wrongdoing. Harrison clearly sees Kirk’s advancing fury and makes no attempt to stop what is about to happen.

297. dmduncan - December 19, 2012

295. Disinvited – December 19, 2012

Yep. Hard on the joints, that stuff, and rolling out of a jump like that would not be smooth. I’ve hurt my shoulders rolling out of simple Aikido throws.

298. DaiMonRon - December 19, 2012

Did anyone consider that he is simply performing these feats somewhere that has gravity lower than 1g?

299. dmduncan - December 19, 2012

And this character is also supposed to be a martial artist. Yet he offers no resistance to a beatdown from Kirk while whipping a Klingon warrior with great skill and strength. It ain’t just the leap. He swings that big gun and leg sweeps the Klingon with ease. Makes it look easy.

300. Curious Cadet - December 19, 2012

@290 dmduncan,
“When Cumberbatch says his character has “extraordinary physical power,” I don’t think he’s lying or misdirecting”

This made me think about the context of his statement. In this case he says:

“John Harrison who’s … An extraordinary character in his own right … He’s got an extraordinary purpose … He has extraordinary physical powers, but also [extrodinary] mental powers. He can sow and idea which is as powerful as gunshots or close-hand combat, which he’s masterful in.”

So what can we glean from this description? Well first, Cumberbatch uses the word “extraordinary a lot”, and a fair amount of hyperbole — an idea as powerful as “gunshots”. And there’s a lot that’s “extraordinary”. Equating them on the same level, if “extraordinary physical powers” means superhuman, then his purpose and his character must be greater than almost any ever imagined by humanity. And of course there’s the understood “extraordinary” in his description of mental powers, so he must be an Einstein with Gary Mitchell’s psychic ability. In which case those ideas of his might literally destroy physical objects with the power of gunshots. Unless of course Cumberbatch didn’t mean that Harrison is superhuman.

301. dmduncan - December 19, 2012

Mention of the springboard reminds me of the end of TUC where they launched Shatner off a springboard for that phony looking tackle on the president. Looked totally wack because it looked like he was launched.

Harrison’s leap is very graceful and controlled. He’s not coming off a springboard.

302. Curious Cadet - December 19, 2012

@295 Disinvited,
“It’s not the springboard assist for which you need to be in peak form, but the landing.”

A landing we do not see.

@298 DaiMonRon,
“Did anyone consider that he is simply performing these feats somewhere that has gravity lower than 1g?”

Yes, I did.

303. dmduncan - December 19, 2012

300. Curious Cadet – December 19, 2012

Well but words are vague, ambiguous, and have multiple meanings. I think extra-ordinary — beyond ordinary — is what the Botany Bay super villains are. We do not usually use the word extraordinary in normal conversation to mean the impossible, but the highly unusual or unexpected.

Nietsche’s ubermensch, doesn’t mean Clark Kent’s other identity, and that’s not the kind of “superman” Khan is. He’s the George Bernard Shaw variety.

Interestingly, Ricardo Montalban actually toured in George Bernard Shaw’s play, Man and Superman, after TOS was off the air.

304. dmduncan - December 19, 2012

That jump takes place on Q’onoS, which has no established mass, but if that leap were possible for any normal human to make on Q’onoS, then I suspect Klingons would be the weaklings and humans would be the asskickers.

305. Kenji - December 19, 2012

@285

They would be disappointed if he turned out to be anybody. That’s what we do: we watch brand new, created-by-fan-who-posts-on-Trekmovie, franchise-tentpole-funded, A-list produced Star Trek footage for free, and feel so very, very disrespected.

However, I think you make a good point. Everyone has been anticipating Khan to various percentages of likelihood. If it is “John Harrison”, full stop, then is it disappointing? I think it might be. I am curious for the current Supreme Court’s ‘take’ on Khan.

Which is not to say that I am hoping it is Khan. I’d rather it be something else, because obviously WOK has been done quite well already, there is not much more to add to that story.

Unless there is!

306. Curious Cadet - December 19, 2012

@296 dmduncan,
“Such as?”

I have no idea. That requires speculation on my part as to what could possibly happen immediately prior to those 42 frames, and what happens immediately afterward, both crucial data variables. My hypothesis is based on the filmmakers counting on us to do exactly that, fill in the blanks with what we’ve seen dozens of times before, and therefore assume they will do exactly the same thing in a similar situation.
_______________________________________
“I see a superhuman who LETS himself be pummeled to the ground, accepting the justification of Kirk’s anger.”

And I see that too. That’s my point. There is absolutely no way to know what is actually happening without creating a back story for a character we actually know nothing truly tangible about.

307. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 19, 2012

I may be confused over which film footage of leaping that we are talking about. I am talking about the guy who looks like Harrison – short black hair, tall, wearing leathers and long trench coat leaping downwards (not skywards) through a window, smashing the glass, and landed feet first on the floor. I am not sure where he came from but the floor seemed to be part of a high rise building.

In the other footage, I see what appear to be Klingons (wearing helmets) jumping from great heights.

I do not think that anyone would simply allow themselves to be pummelled to the ground, even if they understood why someone might want to do that. It would be instinct to try to mount a defence, to the extent that a person is able. If Harrison could not fight Kirk off, it would be because he was in a physically weaker state at the time.

I agree that nothing definitive is actually known about John Harrison, other than he tells everyone that, while they think they are safe, they are not; he offers a cure for a little girl’s disease; appears to give a number of folks the run-around; he looks supercool in leather and has a speaking voice to die for!
That’s it!

What is bad is that since I have not been able to see the preview, I do not have an image of that captain in a tight wetsuit…:(, so I guess, for now, I must content myself with one mean dude in leather with THAT VOICE….sigh…

Like the picture of Kirk on the other thread – them blue eyes…it would be a very sad world if there were nothing nice to gaze upon!

Oh dear. Must stop now if you know what I mean…;)

308. dmduncan - December 19, 2012

Filling in the blanks is a native feature of what the medium requires you to do, and also of how the human brain works. Yes, it is a blind spot that is possible to exploit…but sometimes a leap is just a leap.

You are almost making a god of the gaps type of argument where the before and after gaps proves that something else is going on than what we see. I know you don’t think it proves it, but I do think you see unimagined possibilities in those gaps that are not that probable, because 1) if the possibility is really that hard to imagine fitting what we see, then it’s probably because the possibility is more imagined than real, and 2) whatever happens has to be consistent with what we do see, much as Kirk and McCoy running through the red forest in the first trailer is consistent with the much longer run we see in the 9 minute preview.

Could you have predicted the creature? Probably not. But you could have predicted longer moments running in the forest adjacent to the shorter moments in the trailer and where nothing contradictory happened during them, equal in time to the missing gaps at the start and finish of Harrison’s leap where we could also expect nothing contradictory to the leap that we do see right now to happen. He’s only a foot in the air as the clip starts and there’s no explosion that throws him off the platform, and no evidence of a special suit.

It’s an inductive inference, so that means it can be wrong. But if it turns out that I’m right, it will not be out of luck. Not in this case. Because it isn’t a wild guess.

309. dmduncan - December 19, 2012

I could be wrong that the sun will rise tomorrow, but that doesn’t make my assumption that it will just a wild guess.

310. dontcare - December 19, 2012

Rose, at 20 seconds into the first trailer (the “announcement” trailer) Cumberbatch’s character jumps more than 15 feet straight up, it is not a klingon doing this, his face is visible. That is the superhuman jump everyone is talking about.

311. ChuckW - December 19, 2012

One word, “Charlie X”, oh wait, that’s two. Uh, is “X” a word? Well whatever, Charlie X. The scene with the girl screaming in the preview (Carol Marcus?) looks like the scene with the character Yeoman Tina Lawton. The Enterprise has to return to Earth after dropping off Charlie who has become “one of them” and he goes all ninja on the planet. I haven’t figured out the name John Harrison yet, but I’m working on it. One word, “Charlie X”, oh wait, I mean two words.

312. Curious Cadet - December 19, 2012

@310 dontcare,
“Rose, at 20 seconds into the first trailer (the “announcement” trailer) Cumberbatch’s character jumps more than 15 feet straight up”

And this is the main point I disagree with. We dont know this was 15 feet at all, or that it is even straight up. There is absolutely nothing from which to gain any reference for size and distance. The camera is locked down on the floor using who knows what kind of lens, and this position almost always warps perspective further. I have looked at these mere 42 frames over and over trying to discerne if it can be stated beyond a doubt that Cumberbatch performs a superhuman leap, and still do not see this as definitive. Cumberbatch is on a wire, of that I’m sure. However, I do not see this as a leap straight up at all. I see this as a leap forward, slightly up as would be natural for such a jump, and arching down. We do not see him actually touching the platform before he lifts off, nor do we see him land.

And I do have to wonder … The action we do see is so fluid as to remind me of only something I’ve only seen Superman do — lift straight up from standing still as if by will and landing flat footed. If there is truly nothing before this first frame to indicate where such an unnatural performance came from, then this Harrison has literally extraordinary “mental powers” — not just intelligence, but psychic as well in that such a move is not a natural leap by any means. As I recall, when Mitchell was still a contender, this very leap was cited as proof of it being Mitchell because it appeared beyond what even Khan could pull off. Does it make sense then that Khan, or an augment could lift straight up from standing still, fly 15 feet into the air, then land in a smooth controlled manner, flat footed and resume fighting?

I find it humerous that the entire claim to Cumberbatch being superhuman (and thus Khan) is tied directly to these 42 frames, as we have seen absolutely nothing else performed by him that a well trained soldier such as Jason Bourne couldn’t pull off in the movies.

Perhaps I am being obtuse about this, but I just don’t see it yet. Maybe the next trailer will demonstrate more of these so-called superhuman abilities with something more than 42 isolated frames.

313. dontcare - December 20, 2012

@Rose.

My only point was to explain which jump people were talking about, otherwise I absolutely don’t give a crap about the argument. It looks like a straight up jump to me, and my own point of view is the only one I really care about, if I am wrong when I see the movie I will not only accept it but actually enjoy the surprise more, because so very few movies surprise me anymore. I have already decided that I am seeing the movie whether Cumberbatch is Harrison, Khan, Mitchell, April, Garth, Norman (or some other android), or who the frik ever he is. I will see it if the Enterprise is underwater, upside down, inside out or purple!

Perhaps I am being obtuse, but all I did was give you the answer to a question you asked, I wasn’t even the one you asked the question of, I took time I did not need to, in order to give you that answer, and you repay me with a lecture about crap I could not care less about, I don’t appreciate it.

314. Curious Cadet - December 20, 2012

@313 dontcare,

Rose didn’t give you that lecture (nor had anything to do with it). I wrote the response at 312. I’m sorry you thought I was lecturing you, I wasn’t. I was expanding my views about my perception of the “leap” in general, and it happened to follow my use of your post to illustrate my main contention with the leap.

In the end, you may be 100% correct and the movie may bear out that it is a leap straight up, and I am 100% wrong not to have embraced the obvious.

Again, sorry for any offense. I appreciate, as I’m sure does Rose, that you helped clarify the discussion for her, and helped focus me in the process, none of which was directed specifically at you personally.

315. TrekTech - December 20, 2012

The father at the beginning is a member of starfleet and he trades becoming an accessory to the terrorist act for a cure for his daughter. Painfully obvious. The tubes are coffins. I stand by that Wood character is related to his Terra Prime character in Enterprise and is tied in to the terrorism and my guess is he thinks hes running the show with ‘Harrison’ as a tool but ends up on the wrong side of ‘Harrison’ and finds out HE’S actually the took for Harrisons purposes

316. Disinvited - December 20, 2012

#315. TrekTech

One problem I have with the coffin theory: the total lack of frost on the only other coffin we’ve seen before – that of Captain Spock. Now I might buy some sort of morgue refrigeration. Except, I can’t picture a morgue in any future time abandoning neatly stacked sliding drawers.

317. Curious Cadet - December 20, 2012

@308 dmduncan,
“But if it turns out that I’m right, it will not be out of luck. Not in this case. Because it isn’t a wild guess”

Guessing the obvious is usually the easiest. Just like guessing the villain is Khan (or “Khan-centric”), when the film makers have all but hung a sign around Cumberbatch’s neck saying so with the myriad of clues they have seemingly gone out of their way to include in the total of 3:00 of footage we have seen to date.

Look, I don’t disagree with you. Yours are some of the most grounded and well-reasoned observations and arguments presented here. And it’s not so much that I’m ignoring your advice, as I am taking into consideration the wild card here: these guys are masters of misdirection and subterfuge to keep us off the right trail as long as possible. You suggest we should look at the whole salad, not just examine the lettuce, when these guys are hiding URLs in single frames of a trailer … trailers which have suspicious edits, with shots taken completely out of context and presented out of order from start to finish. Aside from outright lying, the one thing I know for sure is these guys will do whatever it takes to confuse and deceive us to prevent the true nature of their film from becoming clear, and that to me makes the “gaps” much more relevant than they otherwise would be, especially when the primary evidence for a tentpole argument is 42 isolated frames.

318. Craiger - December 20, 2012

What if Star Trek Into Darkness is just JJ’s, Orci’s and Kurtzman’s way of disrupting Roddenberry’s Utopian future and not really about Khan at all?

319. Bill Lutz - December 20, 2012

yuck

320. Missing Point - December 20, 2012

@318 – Yup.

After the movie is released, and all is revealed, will Trekkers simply shift to debating the pros and cons of the JJ’s chosen (or new) villain or will they demand something more?

Or perhaps in the best Trek tradition – they will create it themselves…

321. TrekTech - December 20, 2012

@ 315 This is precisely what it looks like after a car bombing, terrorist attack etc. Its not neat like in most movies because the casualties often exceed the facilities/ Also, as far as things like frost. Spock was shot in to space in a windowless photon torpedo housing. We know from the synopsis there has been a massive terrorist attack and we the flag being folded (part of the burial procedure).. we also know that JJ is anachronistic in his imagery which is why we have breweries for Engineering, retail hand scanners and IKEA lamps littering the sets, etc ad nauseum. As a combat veteran, when I saw that shot of closely spaced tubes my first thought was makeshift morgue.

322. TrekTech - December 20, 2012

whoops I meant @316

323. Exverlobter - December 20, 2012

What do you think, will Alice Eve speak with her English or her American accent? She can do both very plausibly because she lived for a long time in the USA.
Furthermore Alice Eve has heterochromia (two different eye colors). It is very rare and it looks nice.
Does anybody know, if we get to see that, or do they use digitially altered eyes for Alice? That would suck. I think they did that with Kate Bosworth in Superman Returns who also has heterochromia.

324. dmduncan - December 20, 2012

317. Curious Cadet – December 20, 2012

I’m not giving advice, really, and I’m not unaware that something totally unexpected could happen. The question for me is does that leap scene contain enough information in it by which to accurately infer what happens immediately before the introductory frame and immediately after the concluding frame to reliably conclude that the leap was due either to the character having great internal strength or externally augmented strength, and I think it does have enough information.

The SC IS tricky. They’ve proven that. But I think this would be like the controversy that erupted when Bob typo-d “cOnspiracy” at the wrong moment, and some saw that as evidence that the villain was Khan because of the capitalized O.

325. DaiMonRon - December 20, 2012

In Anthony’s analysis article of the trailer (12/6/12), the shot where “the villian” makes this extraordinary jump, the caption reads :

“Benedict Cumberbatch character stands on Klingon building (note lettering on side) and leaps high into the air and down towards awaiting Klingon – dead bodies are also seen on ground in upper photo”

It doesn’t say it is actually on Q’onoS. Could be Praxis, or any other Klingon moon, or anyplace that a Klingon building would be, where gravity allows a normal being to jump 15 feet.

326. DaiMonRon - December 20, 2012

@dmduncan #304

The caption for the shot of “the villian” in Anthony’s article (12/6/12 shot by shot analysis of trailer) says:

“Benedict Cumberbatch character stands on Klingon building (note lettering on side) and leaps high into the air and down towards awaiting Klingon – dead bodies are also seen on ground in upper photo”

It never says specifically that they are on Q’onoS in that shot. It is possible it is a Klingon building/structure/station that is on a moon or in orbit somewhere.

A single big jump does not mandate super human powers (IMO), especially in a movie where space and different planetary bodies play big role.

327. Joey B. - December 20, 2012

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. Cumberbatch plays Xon (John = Xon.) He’s one pissed off Vulcan. One could say he’s the Jason Statham of Vulcans. Did you see the TMP-style insignia on Kirk?

If you read between the lines, it’s obvious.

328. DaiMonRon - December 20, 2012

My apologies

326 first sentence was incomplete. Should be:

The caption for the shot of “the villian” making this extraordinary jump in Anthony’s article (12/6/12 shot by shot analysis of trailer) says:

329. Phil - December 20, 2012

@316. Well, Captain Spocks coffin we really shiny considering it had just taken a ride through re-entry. No evidence that it was anything but the softest of landings, too. Damn, those photon torpedo tubes can do anything…

Actually, what we saw in the trailer were replicator supply tubes. Pop the body in, say a few nice words, punch a few buttons, and lunch is served on C deck!! No one ever said it couldn’t be done….

330. Patch - December 20, 2012

289: I agree with you – I posted on the second trailer shot-by-shot thread (think it was 652) about a very similar possibility. There are a lot of coincidences and similarities between the Terra Prime/Augments story arcs from Enterprise and things we see in the trailers. What’s funny to me is that I wouldn’t even have thought it through until I saw the ship crashing into the water and concluded that it’s most likely an NX-01 or very similar.

Here’s an interesting possible part of the storyline…sure, I’m probably just spinning my wheels, but I like mysteries.
*****
The person dropping his ring into the fluid is Robert April, and it’s either his daughter or granddaughter that is very sick. He knows of Cold Station 12 and the Augment embryos stored there, perhaps as a former captain of either Enterprise NX-01 or another similar vessel (maybe the Bonaventure, as a nod to TAS). Somehow, John Harrison (whose full name I believe is John Harrison Paxton – either a son or grandson of John Frederick Paxton) has learned of April’s situation, knowing that the Augment technology can save the girl, but not knowing the location and disposition of the embryos and technology. He offers to save the girl, in exchange for the location of Cold Station 12 and other sensitive Starfleet information, which April agrees to against his conscience. Hence the ring drop scene…maybe it’s not water and the ring dissolves as a metaphor for April going against everything he ever believed in, which was embodied by Starfleet.

John Harrison has returned to Earth to seek revenge for either the imprisonment or death of his father/grandfather John Frederick Paxton. He has to take April with him to Cold Station 12, as Harrison would never get in himself. Together, they steal April’s old ship – the NX-01 class we see crashing later – go to Cold Station 12, and steal some form of technology (probably biological) that would save the girl. They also find Paxton alive and well. All three of them depart for Earth, but are attacked when they arrive by Klingons, who have learned some of what has happened. Just before April’s old ship is destroyed and crashes into the water, they are captured and taken to Qo’nos, along with the technology from Cold Station 12, but the Klingons do not know that Paxton and Harrison are Augments.

Yes, there’s a lot more, and I’m probably quite wrong, but it’s fun to speculate.

331. Rastor728 - December 20, 2012

Don’t forget that Weller played a villain in “Enterprise”. He was a human advocating the removal of all NON Humans from Earth!

With Kirk’s “timeline” screwed up, Weller could still be his previous character (augment maybe) who believed in Human Superiority and that all others who don’t agree should be “expelled” with their “alien” friends.

332. PEB - December 20, 2012

327 I just cant imagine them casting Noel Clark as Robert April. And remember, he said he wasnt even sure if he’d be cut from the film or not so I dont know how large of a part he’ll actually play. It could be a very small part that lends to the emotional theme of the film (like Robau’s character in the first film) or if anything, he could have some working relationship with Carol Marcus of all people which would be that character’s tie to the rest of the story. Clark’s character has to have some importance. I cant see the villain just helping him of all people for no reason. There’s a price to everything. He could be a scientist who helps the villain or gives him some information or tech. Could Clark be playing Dr. Richard Daystrom? http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Richard_Daystrom

333. Craiger - December 20, 2012

Why would JJ base the sequel off of Enterprise a series hardley anyone watched not even the general TV audience?

334. Craiger - December 20, 2012

Sorry, I should say Enterprise series that not even all Trek fans watched in addition to the general movie going audience not watching it.

335. Disinvited - December 20, 2012

#321. TrekTech

I wouldn’t have brought it up if I didn’t find it plausible. I think you’ve sold me on morgue plausibility.

The only thing gnawing at me is if they could find a place that clean in all the mess, I’m pretty sure the doctors at my former hospital employers would co-oped it for the living. But in a triage situation as bad as that it would likely serve both needs.

336. Disinvited - December 20, 2012

#330., 331. Craiger

To rehabilitate CBS’ sagging sales of the product?

Kind of the same reason Hasbro put strings on their other more lucrative brand movie rights that got BATTLESHIP made.

337. Disinvited - December 20, 2012

#332.

“morgue plausibility” should be “triage morgue plausibility”

338. Craiger - December 20, 2012

#333 I meant the the TV series Enterprise not Trek in general.

339. Exverlobter - December 20, 2012

@Craiger
“Why would JJ base the sequel off of Enterprise a series hardley anyone watched not even the general TV audience?”

Why not? The general audience barely remember even the other Trek-Shows, they just want to see a good movie, so they won’t care if its based on ENT or not.
And for the Trekkies it could be a nice tie-in. Its basically the only series thats still canon in the Abramsverse right.

340. Craiger - December 20, 2012

I guess if the general movie going audience liked Captain America a genetic engineering Khan storyline could be the same as Captain America. They could see Khan as Starfleet wanting its Captain America to deal with alien threats but they wonder if he is bad or not.

341. martin - December 20, 2012

#338, 339
I am thinking the reason they chose Peter Weller is probably more because JJ decided he wanted to work with him, than because they want to use his character from a show which has a small fraction of the audience that TOS has.

And the general public does remember TOS, and maybe TNG. They may not remember this episode or that, but it is woven into the American fabric, Enterprise is not.

Seriously doubt they have a Paxton who is another 104 years older, or a decendant of his. That’s reaching for straws thinner than those of us that think it might involve Sybok.

But in the end I think we will find that this is an original story told within the ST Abrahms-verse. We get Carol Marcus, but the other guest characters, like Nero was, will be new.

342. Obsidian - December 20, 2012

Anyone know if we’re going to have crinkly klingons or smooth?

343. Curious Cadet - December 20, 2012

@341 Martin,

Your theory is sound and I would wish it were so. However, Bob Orci said that Weller’s character is NOT from canon, which rules out Paxton, and Cumberbatch’s character is from canon, suggesting he might be playing Khan, or one of the other 85 augments on the Botany Bay.

So while Paxton is definitely out, unless Orci lied (and he said he didn’t), John Harrison still has ties to canon somehow, but hopefully only in a fresh “gee aren’t those guys creative with that obscure reference” sort of way, and not in a “wow they completely reimagined Khan” retread sort of way.

344. PEB - December 20, 2012

@342

They’re allegedly “crinkly,” at least the two that take off their helmets are.

345. dmduncan - December 20, 2012

326: “A single big jump does not mandate super human powers (IMO), especially in a movie where space and different planetary bodies play big role.”

You can bedevil yourself with imaginary possibilities, and I’ll cut through them to choose the right chalice. Who survives drinking from the cup “chose wisely.”

346. Moriarty - December 20, 2012

I’m pretty sure that JJ Abrams leans towards assuming his audience doesn’t know, or need to know, a lot of backstory in order to enjoy a movie. And if you explain everything, the magic is lost (if you’ve seen his TED talk).

What do we know about John Harrison? He’s British, he’s Starfleet, he’s going to violent extremes to defend or protect something he believes in. He’s a formidable warrior. Beyond that… we know *nothing*. We can’t even be sure he’s “superpowered” based on one shot because we’re lacking context.

What do we know about Noel Clarke’s character? He’s described as a family man with a sick little girl, and we see him dropping his Starfleet class ring into a glass of water. From the 9-minute preview it does strongly imply, then, that Harrison is blackmailing him to do something in exchange for his daughter’s life.

Peter Weller’s character? We have not seen him, all we know is fragments which may actually be misleading, although we can probably take him at his word when he says he has a ship.

I do not know where people see a ponytail on the characters near the freezer pods, who we see for all of a half second. I think it’s wishful thinking projected onto MPEG artifacts. Also remember that it’s fairly common in sci-fi to use cryo-stasis as a way of preserving people with illnesses, so that they might be cured in the future. (TNG’s The Neutral Zone, for instance; and dozens of other examples). That scene could be at the hospital where Noel Clarke’s kid is, and it’s shown as a grim possibility if they can’t find a cure soon – but also makes a nicely misleading visual in a trailer. :)

There’s a memorial service. We do not know for whom, or even how many. We do not know at what point in the movie this happens – is it a memorial for the class of 2258, slaughtered at Vulcan? Is it for a single fallen officer? Is it perhaps just a kind of Remembrance Day / Veterans’ Day event? We don’t know.

Also to remember: One of the things that was key to the 2009 trailer was that parts of dialogue from different scenes were edited together to create lines that were NOT actually spoken in the movie.

347. Disinvited - December 20, 2012

#345. dmduncan

Generally speaking the Chalice from the Palace has the brew which is tue. And avoid all liquids with pestles in them – usually a dead give away – most especially contained by vessels.

348. dmduncan - December 20, 2012

347. Disinvited – December 20, 2012

Ha!

Hey Disinvited, you spelled “true” as “tue.” Was that a typo or did you really mean a word I don’t understand?

349. Disinvited - December 20, 2012

#347.

tue should be “true”

350. dmduncan - December 20, 2012

349. Disinvited – December 20, 2012

#347.

tue should be “true”

***

When I read that, I LITERALLY did not see it spelled as “tue.” I saw “true” even though the r was absent. My mind supplied it. Then when I looked at it again, I noticed there was no r.

So even though there was no r, my mind correctly understood you and actually supplied the letter the word needed to be the word you meant.

Following the same line of argumentation about Harrison’s leap, someone could argue that you may have meant “too” or “two” or maybe that “tue” was short for “Tuesday.”

But my mind correctly apprehended what you meant, even though you did not tell me beforehand that you meant it.

And 20,000 words expended arguing for those other possibilities would not have changed anything.

351. Disinvited - December 20, 2012

#348. dmduncan.

Who knew a classic movie tongue twister could twist fingers tue (sic)? But it did unintentionally serve the purpose of making sure you got it.

352. dmduncan - December 20, 2012

Self reflective consciousness beguiles us. We get caught in an echo chamber of our own words and become confused about which is echo and which is voice.

353. martin - December 20, 2012

@346 —
One thing about the memorial service – in the 1080p of the trailer, this sure looks like Kirk speaking, so it isn’t his funeral. Also, since he is seen with bruses with his dress uniform on, you would think those fights must occur after the memorial.

Another thing I noticed as I blew up the 1080p versions and went frame by frame, the Constitution Class ship with battledamage over the name and only C-17 visible – there is one frame which appears that there is an “O” over the dash in “C-17″

If that is the case, this badly damaged ship is probably the Yorktown NCC-1717. That would place the O over the dash. — The Constitution and would put the O to the left of the dash, and the Constellation is NCC-1017. The Hood should have the O’s well to the right of the dash. The Potempkin is NCC-1657. That is as long as they go by TOS registry numbers and ship names.

Back to Kirk – I am thinking that they are not killing Kirk. First if they kill someone, they shouldn’t do Kirk, Spock or McCoy. While it certainly works for drama to kill the main character, if they think they are just going to reset switch them back in the next movie, then that is really cheap. It was one thing to do it with Spock one time, but it really would be cheesy to do it again.

Further, Kirk can’t die, have his katra restored to a new body and come back. He couldn’t be a captain again, that would be as ridiculous as making a troublemaking cadet a captain before his graduation from StarFleet.

354. Disinvited - December 20, 2012

#353. martin

In the ToS episode THE CHANGELING, NOMAD kills Scotty (fade to comercials) then offers to repair the unit Scott. McCoy and Spock give the robot a crash course in Med School, and before you can say “brain dead” resurrects Mr. Scott from death.

This episode closes with Kirk saying “My son, the doctor….”

Thus, two points which were later built into TWoK.

355. Curious Cadet - December 20, 2012

@326 DaiMonRon,
“A single big jump does not mandate super human powers (IMO), especially in a movie where space and different planetary bodies play big role.”

Agreed. The problem I have is the jump itself. The majority of folks here want to see this as a “superhuman” jump. A tremendous leap straight up from standing still, and then flying forward and down in a smooth continuous arc to land controlled and flat footed. And these 42 frames can certainly be viewed like that. But when I try to look at it that way, alarm bells go off.

If this is actually what happens, then Harrison is not just a superhuman augment, he’s Superman. Only some Marvel and DC comics action heroes move like this in my experience. Certainly not Khan.

So if I assume Harrison is an augment, then I have to look at the jump given what I have learned to expect from augment’s abilities and that changes my perspective. Once I see this leap happening in a less supernatural way, then I can also imagine Harrison may also be something other than an augment.

356. Disinvited - December 20, 2012

#353. martin

You do realize that it was Captain Spock who died and was resurrected still retaining his rank and commission?

357. Disinvited - December 20, 2012

FWIW, that Kirk is katra-able was all laid out in the ToS episode RETURN TO TOMORROW.

358. Gary S. - December 20, 2012

If you take the leaping out of the equation what other evidence is there that Harrison is Superhuman?

359. martin - December 20, 2012

Lets say that the larger audience buys that Kirk can be restored to a new body. So if he is left dead at the end of this movie, then in the beginning of movie 3 he comes back? Is the entire 3rd movie a quest for Kirk in the way that ST3 was a quest for Spock?

If it is the latter, then you avoid Chris Pine being in most of that film?

Plus, it makes no sense for the Kirk 3-movie arc if he dies in this film. He could die in the next film, but that’s kind of a bummer – and I doubt that if these 3 movies make as much as the previous 10 put together, I doubt Paramount will want Kirk killed off.

360. Mark James Tucker - December 20, 2012

343
Well technically if weller is playing a descendant of JFP, then he wouldn’t be playing a canon character.
Also I belive his exact words were he wasn’t playing a character cannon to “TOS”

Been off of here for a few days, but wanted to get in a few last comments incase the world really does end in 5 and a half hours from now.
at 3:11:11 am P.S.T. lol

361. Curious Cadet - December 20, 2012

@360 Mrk James Tucker,

Actually, I had forgotten how it was phrased as well. The question was is Weller a new character Orci created, or from original series canon.

Weller is a new character.

However, technically speaking, if a character is a relative they would be derived from canon, and therefore canon. That’s one of one fine lines we’ll just have to see if Orci walks. Personally I would consider that closer to canon than an unnamed, faceless character suggested as being in an episode, but never seen, and given the name John Harrison for this film. I’m still holding out hope that John Harrison is a previously mentioned relative of somebody really good to give the fans one of those great “ah-ha” moments when we finally make the connection. If I had the time I would watch all 79 episodes looking for mention of just those types of off-screen characters. Because the alternative is that John Harrision is just an alias.

http://trekmovie.com/2012/07/14/exclusive-interview-roberto-orci-reveals-star-trek-sequel-character-details-talks-title-post-production/

362. Disinvited - December 20, 2012

#359. martin

Non sequitur, in my first cited resurrection in THE CHANGELING it happened within the episode. Why draw the conclusion that it must unfold as it did in STIII?

363. Jim Nightshade - December 21, 2012

Everyone keeps claiming he’s Johnny….who’s Johnny…..number five is alive…need more input………

that shot of Jonathon leaping down reminds me too much of Nero n the man y platform leaps in trek 2009

364. LogicalLeopard - December 21, 2012

363 *LOL* Wow…I haven’t heard a Short Circuit reference in a while.

If you were asking a question, instead of quoting the 80’s song “Who’s Johnny?”, “Johnny” is the kid who was walking down the road in ST09 during the scene in which young Kirk steals his father’s car, which was in possession of his uncle. It sounds like as Kirk passes him, he says, “Hey Johnny!” Some people thought that this person could be Benedict Cumberbatch’s character.

However, in deleted scenes, I believe the kid is revealed to be Kirk’s brother George, but since it wasn’t in the finished movie, it’s not canon. So they could have cut the scene, and just had the kid walking down the street be a random kid named “Johnny”, instead of his brother.

365. Trek was born on TV - December 21, 2012

#355

A slight adjustment to the gravity controls, and whoosh you can jump like ‘Superman’ That being said I thinks it’s safe to surmise that Harrison has some enhanced mental- as well as physical- abilities.
My own impression was that Harrison somehow reached out with his mind, and yanked that starship from wherever it was and tossed into the bay. Of course that was just an impression. And then I wonder, ‘How can this enhanced person be held in the brig? And is Harrison able to project his mental powers through it?

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