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New Year news tidbits January 8, 2014

by Matt Wright , Filed under: Celebrity,Fan Productions,Fandom,Merchandise,Viral Video/Mashup/Images , trackback

A Trek fan turns her basement into a TOS recreation. A new fan film production appears Star Trek: Axanar about the missions of Captain Garth (later in life “Garth of Izar”).  TV vet actor Joseph Ruskin passes on, and see the new TOS Ortiz prints for January.

Veteran character actor Joseph Ruskin passed away on December 28th at the age of 89. To Trek fans he is probably best known for the role of “Galt” the Thrall Master in the TOS episode “The Gamesters of Triskelion”. Ruskin would go on to guest star on DS9, VOY, and ENT. His tall stature and unique voice made him a sought after character actor. He can be seen in two other classic 60′s Sci-Fi shows: The Twilight Zone, and The Outer Limits.

Galt

–Source: THR

A Canadian Star Trek fan Line Rainville has gone all out by turning her basement into a recreation of various parts of the original series U.S.S. Enterprise. Naturally the main living area is the bridge, but she also has a recreation of Spock’s quarters for relaxing in, and the entry way to her basement is a transporter room, even the bathroom is Trekified. All told she spent $30,000 to do it. It’s quite impressive. Anyone for a nap on Spock’s bed with a Tribble to cuddle with? Click on the source link for more details and photos.

Rainville_bedroom

Rainville_tvroom

–Source: CNET

A new fan production called Star Trek: Anxanar has popped up online with some familiar names attached. Famous names include Richard Hatch (Battlestar Galactica), JG Hertzler (Martok on DS9), and Gary Graham (Soval on ENT).

axanar_logo

“Axanar” takes place 21 years before the events of “Where no Man Has Gone Before”, the first Kirk episode of the original Star Trek.  Axanar is the story of Garth of Izar, the legendary Starfleet captain who is Captain Kirk’s hero.  Kirk himself called Garth the model for all future Starfleet Officer’s.  Garth charted more planets than any other Captain and was the hero of the Battle of Axanar, the story of which is required reading at the academy.  This is that story.

“Axanar” tells the story of Garth and his crew during the Four Years War, the war with the Klingon Empire that almost tore the Federation apart.  Garth’s victory at Axanar solidified the Federation and allowed it to become the entity we know in Kirk’s time.

It is the year 2245, four years into the war with the Klingons.

Axanar will start shooting in February 2014 and is intended to be released Fall 2014.

– Source: http://startrekaxanar.com/

New Juan Ortiz TOS episode retro-prints for January. These include “The Gallileo Seven,” “The Enemy Within,” “Wolf in the Fold” and “The Apple.”

OrtizPosters_jan2014

–Source: StarTrek.com

 

Comments

1. Harry Ballz - January 8, 2014

Fans, ya gotta love ‘em!

2. TcuButter - January 8, 2014

First?

3. TcuButter - January 8, 2014

Nope. :-(

4. Alex Rosenzweig - January 8, 2014

“Axanar” has been in development for a while now. It’s probably my second-most anticipated Trek event of 2014. (The first is the new “Seekers” novel series.)

2014 is actually going to be a huge year for Trek, perhaps the most significant since “Enterprise” went off the air in terms of productions and new creativity. I don’t know about you all, but I am very excited. :)

5. MattR - January 8, 2014

In case anyone is interested, Star Trek Into Darkness was nominated for a BAFTA for Visual Effects, against The Hobbit, Gravity, Iron Man 3 and Pacific Rim.

6. Toonloon - January 8, 2014

Axanar sounds great! Sad news about Joseph Ruskin. His twilight zone episode was superb.

7. bmar - January 8, 2014

I had the opportunity to interview Joseph Ruskin back in 97 for a Sci-Fi Channel project about TOS. He was, like all of the “guest stars”, both puzzled and gratified at the legacy and memory we have of their brief moments on the show. Nearly everyone we interviewed had fond memories of their days on the TOS set. Lots of good stories. I’m afraid that with TOS approaching 50, we’ll be losing more and more of the guest stars, the behind the scenes folks and our beloved regulars.

8. Four quatloos on the new ones! - January 8, 2014

R.I.P. Joseph Ruskin.

9. Bamasi - January 8, 2014

I wonder what the budget for this production is, say in comparison to Star Trek Phase II.

10. CmdrR - January 8, 2014

Nice to see articles like this.

Thanks!

11. BRF - January 8, 2014

What I like on the Axanar web site is that they have FAQ, and Geek FAQ. Good luck to them.

12. PEB - January 8, 2014

@5 The visuals FX of Into Darkness were stunning! When the E is forced to drop out of warp in Klingon space, it’s such a beautiful scene of fx (although short). Future London, the volcano, Klingon chase sequence, the E falling in earth’s atmosphere, the crash -they were all beautiful fx sequences.

Cant wait for Axanar! I’ve been extremely anticipating that and also I’m dying for more Star Trek Phoenix. It would be the appropriate alternative to what Trek Renegades is going to be.

13. Tuomas - January 8, 2014

Everyone seems so focused on TOS. Is there anything from TNG-DS9-VOY era (or beyond) coming out this year? I want to see the 24th century get some love!

14. Danpaine - January 8, 2014

That basement apartment is really well-done. Great detail. A lot of love went into that.

Good article.

15. Curious Cadet - January 8, 2014

Axanar is what they should have done instead of Enterprise.

An excellent alternate universe TV series would be something like Axanar with a young James Kirk serving as a junior office — sort of like Smallville did for Superman. Too late for that now, can’t have 3 different universes.

Short of that, I would take the adventures of Prime universe Kirk on the Farragut. There are so many amazing adventures a young James Kirk could have had, with new friends and new unknowns. Perhaps you know Kirk could never be killed, but then he couldn’t be anyway (that’s what made the whole death in STID hollow for me — you knew he was going to live because there couldn’t be a third film without Kirk). But everyone else could be. In fact they could do the prequel to “Obsession” and kill off the crew of the Farragut as a season cliff-hanger and let us follow Kirk’s career after that. So much opportunity for an amazing series there.

If nothing else these amatuer productions give the studios an idea of what can be done and how well it might be received by fans, perhaps encouraging them to take the risk and make the investment.

16. Mr. ATOZ - January 8, 2014

Benedict should of been Garth, not Khan. Axanar would have been a great plot for “Into Darkness”. (Water under the bridge…) Redeem us with the final movie and bring us the Klingons.

17. Toonloon - January 8, 2014

I just realised., Galt’s hood thingy is one of those dinner mats Bill Theiss made a whole costume out of once.

18. MJ - January 8, 2014

Even though Axanar might end up sucking, I already like it better than Enterprise, because, here — FOR ONCE — they got a pre-TOS ship right with a clean design that logically actually looks like it predates the TOS Enterprise….unlike that Voyager-derived piece of junk that Archer and that silicon-enhanced Vulcan flew around in for four years.

19. Ronnie B. - January 8, 2014

“2014 is actually going to be a huge year for Trek, perhaps the most significant since “Enterprise” went off the air in terms of productions and new creativity.”

What? That’s absurd. These are all just fan films–and poorly acted fan films, at that. The vast majority of fans aren’t even watching them.

20. ironhyde - January 8, 2014

Axanar! Brilliant idea!!! I really never liked how nuTrek turned heroes into callous, disrespectful child-men. I miss heroes and goodness in Trek. So much, I miss it so much. Wow, Axanar will be creating heros and people to look up to and powerful figures of Good. That alone makes it a Trek worth watching. And I will.

21. Andy Patterson - January 8, 2014

@7

bmar,

I think I’ve spoken to you before. Would love to see that treasure trove of stuff you recorded for SciFi. The stuff that we got to see, and that gold mine of stuff that never aired. Any chance we’ll get to see it?

22. MJ - January 8, 2014

““2014 is actually going to be a huge year for Trek, perhaps the most significant since “Enterprise” went off the air in terms of productions and new creativity.”

wtf?

Maybe lay of the crack pipe for a couple of days, my overly excitable friend. ;-)

23. crazydaystrom - January 8, 2014

OT-
Just read that Zoe Saldana has been cast as Rosemary in NBC’s mini-series remake of Roman Polanski’s Rosemary’s Baby. Wow! That woman is busy! And apparantly in demand! It’s a four-hour mini-series and I’m not sure about production and air dates but I can’t help but wonder if or how this might affect her Trek commitments, considering Avatar as a factor as well. She’s talented but she must have a hell of an agent too.

24. Matthew Briggs - January 8, 2014

I think Star Trek is going through its “wilderness” years, Just like Dr Who did during the 90s and early 2000s. The stories the fans are putting out are keeping the franchise going. Granted there’s the new films coming every few years, but its not keeping my Trek appetite at bay.

Keep up the good work Fan Productions

Loved Kitumba btw

25. Red Dead Ryan - January 8, 2014

#4.

“2014 is actually going to be a huge year for Trek, perhaps the most significant since “Enterprise” went off the air in terms of productions and new creativity.”

Whoa, Nellie! Hold your horses, fella. I think that you have forgotten about the certain big Trek movie that came out in 2009…. and STID in 2013…and nothing but fan films apart from that. The fan films are fine for what they are, but aren’t the standard-bearers of creativity.

#19.

“What? That’s absurd. These are all just fan films–and poorly acted fan films, at that. The vast majority of fans aren’t even watching them.”

Yeah, exactly! These fan films are for the die hards to tide us over for awhile till the next tv show comes along — nothing more. Kind of like cheese and crackers — a nice little snack, but not a very satisfying meal.

26. Curious Cadet - January 8, 2014

@16. Mr. ATOZ,
“Benedict should of been Garth, not Khan.”

Since they ignored canon with Khan to begin with, yeah, they could have easily made Garth a man in his late 30s to appear as Cumberbatch, instead of the man supposedly 20 years Kirk’s senior (the irony of that is the actor who portrayed Garth was actually younger then Shatner — and as far as that goes, he was possibly an alien, who had further mastered shape-shifting; so perhaps that bit of casting was intentional).

Of course, aside from the age problem, Capt. April would have been a good candidate. The story Orci was setting up in Countdown to Darkness could have been much more effective than what we got. At least there would have been aliens …

27. Craiger - January 8, 2014

That’s funny how all these fan films think CBS will be interested in one of them when they can do a Trek TV series with an even bigger budget, higher quality and better actors. Also why would CBS want to do a series set in the TOS era with 60′s SFX?

28. Lurker - January 8, 2014

Shouldn’t news tidbits include that STID has like 3 nominations (including one for Pine and Quinto) in tonight’s People Choice Awards?

Or was there another article somewhere on this site?

29. Red Dead Ryan - January 8, 2014

#27.

“That’s funny how all these fan films think CBS will be interested in one of them when they can do a Trek TV series with an even bigger budget, higher quality and better actors. Also why would CBS want to do a series set in the TOS era with 60′s SFX?”

Exactly! Well said. I think there are certain folks *cough! – Tim Russ, Walter Koenig, – cough!* who for some reason, genuinely believe that their productions are top-notch and that they are in demand. This delusion is evidently shared with a small group of fans — the same ones clamoring for Shatner to appear in the new movies — who just can’t seem to let go of the past, or accept the new movies for what they are.

This is like some high school band trying to pass themselves off as being the next Beatles or Rolling Stones. :-)

30. Vultan - January 8, 2014

’60s SFX?

I don’t know, the outer space shots in these fan productions look pretty darn good to me! Just a bit more advanced than 1969.

31. Vultan - January 8, 2014

And yes, we do live in a world now where smaller, less polished independent productions can get noticed by the big boys.

Cases in point: District 9, Monsters, Paranormal Activity, etc.

In any event, more power to the independents.
Keep Trek alive.

32. Red Dead Ryan - January 8, 2014

I will say that the visual effects and overall production values for “Phase II” are top notch.

I think the weaknesses are in the acting and stories. But fan productions are fine for what they are.

33. Craiger - January 8, 2014

Sorry, I should have said using the 60′s SFX look. I know the SFX are better than the ones used in the 60′s, since those were all plastic models. They are just replacing 60′s models with CGI ones. I also think they wouldn’t want to use 60 style sets either. I would think the next series would be set in Abrams’s TOS Universe with those SFX or in the 24th Abrams Universe. I would be curious to see how the 24th tech changed with the result of Nero’s incursion.

34. ziplock9000 - January 8, 2014

Star Trek: Continues is the best one I’ve seen to date, slightly outclassing Phase 2

35. The Sky's the Limit - January 8, 2014

That’s serious fan loyalty!

36. MJ - January 8, 2014

“Star Trek: Continues is the best one I’ve seen to date, slightly outclassing Phase 2″

The original crew acting was better on Phase II, but the horrid idea of bringing back that unconvincing geriatrics actor to play Apollo — that was just embarrassing. The latest effects for Phase II are great — they are better than the special effects in STV, and vastly superior to the special effects of TNG.

37. Caesar - January 8, 2014

I prefer the “different ships have different assignment patches” idea.

38. MJ - January 8, 2014

I meant to say the I like the original crew acting better on Star Trek Continues — that was the one element in which I think it is better than Phase II.

39. Thorny - January 8, 2014

STID had good effects, but I suspect all the others are a lost cause against “Gravity”.

40. Jack - January 8, 2014

How are those age issues going, MJ? As well as the weight stuff? I keed.

41. MJ - January 8, 2014

@40. Not so good, which is why you won’t catch me acting in a major movie.

“A man’ got to know his limitations”

- Dirty Harry

42. Hat Rick - January 8, 2014

I love this kind of article — thanks, Matt Wright.

About the Axanar starship: Why does it have a glowing blue deflector? The original Starship Enterprise had a physical brass-colored deflector and it wasn’t until the refit — decades after the Axanar participated in the adventures covered in the timeframe of this new production — that a glowing blue deflector dish was first seen. The point is that the Axanar should have the same kind of deflector dish as seen in the allegedly more advanced Starship Enterprise, since the Axanar is apparently an older model.

You can argue that the Starship Enterprise is actually around the same age as the Axanar if you count the adventures of pre-Kirk captains, such as Robert April, but that’s not how most people think of the Enterprise. And also, why have we never seen the blue-type deflector until the time of the Refit Enterprise? This doesn’t really make much sense.

At least the NX-01 had a physical dish, which makes sense given its place in the Star Trek timeline.

43. Hat Rick - January 8, 2014

Yeah, okay, sorry — I see that the “Geek FAQ” has already addressed my question about the deflector dish look. However, I’m not very satisfied with it; it seems to be a bit of retconning or a stretch to merely explain it as “different starships have different looks.” I think that the real reason is that the blue deflector dish looks cooler to our sensibilities than the brass-colored kind. Part of the appeal of the TMP Enterprise (i.e., the refit version) was that it had the very advanced-looking deflector dish that set it apart from the TOS Enterprise implying that it was all the more advanced.

Also, it doesn’t seem to make much sense that there are different kinds of deflector dishes for different starships over such an extended period of time. It’s not just the shape of the thing — it seems that different dishes operate on different principles.

But maybe I’m just nitpicking.

44. MJ - January 8, 2014

“NBC has found its lead for the upcoming miniseries adaptation of Rosemary’s Baby. We learned last month that the Hannibal network was moving forward with a miniseries based on Ira Levin’s 1967 novel Rosemary’s Baby, and now Variety reports that Zoe Saldana has been tapped to lead the project. ”

Wow, poor Zaldana? Her career is tanking a bit. Avatar 2 can’t come soon enough for her.

45. MJ - January 8, 2014

Hat Rick,

Not sure what you are talking about — this Axanar ship photo is from the rear (i.e, we can’t see the deflector dish)?

46. Red Dead Ryan - January 8, 2014

Doing a mini-series remake of an old novel and movie is usually a step down for most movie stars. Doing so on a struggling NBC is just sad.

Thing is, Zoe Saldana is a decent actress. Maybe its time for her to make like Chris Pine and fire her agent. ;-)

47. Vultan - January 8, 2014

#45

There’s a link for the Axanar website buried in the article:
http://startrekaxanar.com/

Yeah, Hat Rick is right. The blue glowing dish does make it look more advanced. Other than that, it’s a good looking ship. Faithful to Matt Jeffries’ aesthetic.

48. MJ - January 9, 2014

@47.

Ah, OK, Vultan – thanks.

That’s unfortunate though. They had the right idea, but now they too apparently feel the need to add in later tech to their ships. Why???

When will people doing earlier stuff learn? Stick to the classic TOS Enterprise and work backwards. It’s not really all that complicated.

49. Hat Rick - January 9, 2014

Thanks for your responses, MJ and Vultan. I think we are agreed that there’s a bit of historical revisionism (a.k.a. retconning) that doesn’t seem all that persuasive. It takes away from the illusion of believability when people throw stuff in just because it looks cool. I think that part of the reason that the Star Wars movies somewhat jumped the shark is that some of the allegedly “older” tech looked a lot better than the “more advanced” tech of subsequent years. The real reason is that the prequels were made much later than the original trilogy — and for that reason, we saw the extremely retro-cool (but also advanced-looking) Naboo imperial ship (the chrome one) that had no place in the original aesthetic.

Although, I must admit, the proto-star destroyers at the end of Attack of the Clones (the scene in which hundreds of thousands of Stormtroopers march up into starships, like something out of the Third Reich) are convincingly less advanced than the classic star destroyers of the original trilogy).

Going back to Star Trek (the better franchise, in my mind), I actually have less of a problem with the NX-01 than some other people from the standpoint of technological development. I think that the bridge was conceptually appropriately less advanced; it was just that the execution, using actual flat-screen monitors, for example, perhaps wasn’t sufficiently consistent with the tech we saw in TOS, which had (again, for example), CRT-style “monitors” in use in staterooms, etc., which were increasingly outdated. You could argue, however, that the submarine look of the NX-01 bridge was closer to the 21st Century than the cleaner style of the TOS Enterprise, and that this would be appropriate for their respective places in the Trek timeline.

Also, the use of grappler technology rather than tractor beams, of polarized hull shielding, of much less-powerful torpedoes — all these were attempts to make the NX-01 less advanced than the TOS Enterprise. They did make sense in important respects.

What made NX-01 a bit less believable was — again — a flat blue glow look behind the physical deflector dish (the cool factor strikes again, apparently); and, in addition, the extremely convenient rapid (i.e., within two or three years) deployment of advancements in technology to more closely match the era of the TOS Enterprise. At least, that’s the way I remember it. I seem to remember that, all of a sudden, the torpedoes and shielding became more powerful as the series moved on to confront more powerful adversaries.

But the philosophy behind NX-01 was sound.

In addition, I don’t see the NX-01 as being close to Voyager in technology; rather, it reminds me a lot of the Reliant or Valiant — and so too, indeed, does the Axanar.

Anyway, just some fanboy thoughts, for what they’re worth. Sorry for rambling on.

50. Hat Rick - January 9, 2014

Strike my reference to the Valiant; I was probably thinking of a proto-Miranda-class ship (similar to the USS Reliant except without the “roll-bar”).

51. Mad Mann - January 9, 2014

Wow, that Trek house is amazing. I would love to do something love that, but the wife would never let me.

About the Juan Ortiz posters: I appreciate his effort, but these later ones are under-whelming. How can you not have the shuttlecraft Galileo depicted in the Galileo 7 poster?

52. bmar - January 9, 2014

@21 Andy Patterson

Hi Andy – well, as far as I know, the tapes (all 50 something of them) are still mouldering on a shelf in standard-def misery, somewhere at Sci-Fi (or should I say, Syfy).

I know they used some of the material on the DVD’s that came out (the HD ones) a few years ago – but the vast majority of it has never been seen, which is a shame – especially given the passing, recently of some of the folks we interviewed.

Personally, I’d love to have a copy of it myself! At least I still have all of the scripts and research we did!

53. Curious Cadet - January 9, 2014

@28. Lurker,
“Shouldn’t news tidbits include that STID has like 3 nominations (including one for Pine and Quinto) in tonight’s People Choice Awards? Or was there another article somewhere on this site?”

I don’t believe it was mentioned in any articles. I brought it up a while back on another thread, but nobody seemed interested to discuss it.

STID lost all three awards it was up for. Can’t say I’m really surprised. It actually bodes extremely well for Trek that it was one of only 5 films nominated by the popular audience though.

For me personally, considering the choices for Favorite film, I am a bit perplexed. I don’t necessarily think Iron Man 3 was any better than STID, and for my money both films were better than the other nominees. I would really love to know where it placed in the final voting.

Favorite Movie
Despicable Me 2
Fast & Furious 6
Iron Man 3 *WINNER
Monsters University
Star Trek Into Darkness

The Favorite Movie Duo is right on though. I can’t really imagine why Quinto and Pine were nominated for this to begin with (and the only male male nomination) … while I know they were brought together in the penultimate death scene, it seems like they were mostly separate from each other throughout the rest of the film. If anything this film was about Kirk and Pike, and Kirk and Marcus, and Kirk and Khan, even Kirk and Scotty. Then there was Spock and Uhura, and then everybody else. Certainly can’t compete with Bullock and Clooney. ST09? Yes, Pine and Quinto should have rocked that one. Not so much for STID.

And lastly, favorite action movie, again no surprise it lost, but this is one where I’m not sure it should have been on the list. Is Star Trek supposed to be an action movie? It seems out of place with the other movies its nominated with. Not sure Iron Man 3 should have gotten this either. And where is Man of Steel? And isn’t Hunger Games considered an action genre? Favorite film? Yes. Action movie? I have reservations about this nomination. At best the nomination is surely a mixed blessing.

Favorite Action Movie
Fast & Furious 6
Iron Man 3 *WINNER
Star Trek Into Darkness
The Wolverine
World War Z

54. Hat Rick - January 9, 2014

Also, I’m sorry to hear about Mr. Ruskin’s passing. His contribution to Trek helped make a classic episode truly memorable.

About the Trekified dwelling — bravo! It’s great that people are able to live out their fantasies in such a comprehensive manner.

55. Danpaine - January 9, 2014

I don’t mean to draw unnecessary fire upon myself, but as a decades-long Trek fan and a barely-Superman fan, I really thought Man Of Steel was a better film than STID. Which surprised me. Maybe that’s because I expected/wanted so much more out of the latter, though.

Just sharing.

56. Hat Rick - January 9, 2014

@Danpaine, that’s an interesting point. I saw both movies, and I would say that while MOS was a unique take on the Superman mythos, I still liked STID a lot more. Maybe it’s a matter of obligation as a Trek fan; I’m really not sure. But if you asked me which film is better, I can honestly say I preferred STID. I’d certainly see it again before I would see MOS.

But what really moved me to post is an idea that popped into my head about Star Trek as I was listening to some music — it happened to be Eine Klein Nachtmusik. And I have to tell you — I really like classical music. As in, REALLY like it. It moves me, it takes me to places emotionally that few other things do.

The concept that flew into my mind was that of dynamic range. Why it did, I’m not sure; it’s not as if Mozart’s Symphony No. 40 in G Minor is the MOST dynamic of all possible pieces. Yes, it’s dynamic, but there are more dynamic pieces. But just that fact, perhaps — that it’s so wonderful and yet not bombastic…. perhaps that made this idea clear in my consciousness.

That is, that Trek is basically classical music. It’s not rock and roll — Babylon 5 is rock and roll. I think that JMS, its creator, alluded to that. And rock and roll — well, who doesn’t like Elvis Presley? Everyone likes to rock, at least once in a while. But ultimately, rock, to me, doesn’t speak the soul as much as classical does.

Because rock tries too hard to be outrageous. It doesn’t allow the quietude of contemplation as much as classical, to see the eternal.

You listen to Presley, or to the Beatles, or to the latest rock sensation, to be thrown into an emotional maelstrom, yes — very exciting. But different from what classical music can do.

STID was an attempt to make Trek something akin to a rock opera — a bit like Jesus Christ, Superstar, perhaps. Fast, exciting … and fast.. And exciting. And fast. But….

Is Trek cut out to be a rock ‘n roll franchise?

It needs to have dynamic range. But there’s a difference between that and throwing it into the clutches of modern electronic noise. It’s a fine, and refined, balance we should strike.

Perhaps we should consider that when contemplating the possible future of Trek.

57. Hat Rick - January 9, 2014

“The concept that flew into my mind was that of dynamic range. Why it did, I’m not sure; it’s not as if it or Mozart’s Symphony No. 40 in G Minor, let’s say, are the MOST dynamic of all possible pieces. Yes, dynamic, but there are more dynamic pieces. But just that fact, perhaps — that it’s so wonderful and yet not bombastic…. perhaps that made this idea clear in my consciousness.”

As corrected.

58. Craiger - January 9, 2014

Does anyone think Trek is done in movies and on TV after Trek 3? I was thinking that since Anthony doesn’t hang out at Trekmovie anymore and Trekweb is done since Gustavo and Steve aren’t at Trekweb anymore. Maybe they know something about Trek that we don’t?

59. HubcapDave - January 9, 2014

I don’t get the bashing of the fan films. These guys are putting them together out of their own time and money for us to enjoy at our leisure. For what they are, I say that the quality of them has improved mightily over the years. I was able to watch Kitumba on my 60″ hdtv via youtube. The story and the acting were about on par with most fan films, but it looked utterly fantastic on my TV screen! If I ever win it big in the lottery, I plan to give James Cawley and help him put out a few more episodes……

60. Ensign RedShirt - January 9, 2014

They have a justification for the TMP deflector here:

Why does the USS Ares deflector look more like a TMP deflector?

What did the Reliant’s deflector look like? What did the NX-01’s deflector look like? There are many different types of Starfleet ships and many different types of deflectors. Some you can’t even see (like the Reliant) as the function isn’t fulfilled by a “dish”. So that being said, the USS Ares deflector is different as it is a different class of ship.

61. Emperor Mike of the Alternate Empire - January 9, 2014

I think Bob Orci should take notes on what these fan production’s are doing.

62. Mike Barnett - January 9, 2014

61. Emperor Mike of the Alternate Empire – January 9, 2014
“I think Bob Orci should take notes on what these fan production’s are doing”

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

63. MJ - January 9, 2014

Nice try, but I am not buying it.

Obviously the disc came before the array in terms of Starfleet technology, and I don’t consider anything in Enterprise as canon.

================================================

60. Ensign RedShirt – January 9, 2014
They have a justification for the TMP deflector here:

Why does the USS Ares deflector look more like a TMP deflector?

What did the Reliant’s deflector look like? What did the NX-01’s deflector look like? There are many different types of Starfleet ships and many different types of deflectors. Some you can’t even see (like the Reliant) as the function isn’t fulfilled by a “dish”. So that being said, the USS Ares deflector is different as it is a different class of ship.

64. Ensign RedShirt - January 9, 2014

MJ -

I agree.

It’s not a big deal, but keeping a TOSish deflector would’ve made it a bit more consistent.

65. MJ - January 9, 2014

@64. Thanks, and yes, it’s not a big deal, but slightly disappointing. Maybe the creators are reading these posts and can make that change still?

66. Hat Rick - January 10, 2014

@MJ (63, 65) and @Ensign ReShirt (64):

Looking at the repeated passes of the Axanar starship in that video available at the official website, it seems that there might be a physical dish and that the blue glow is actually emanating from it. However, the angles from which we see the ship make this difficult to determine.

It’s possible that they are trying to have “the best of both worlds,” to coin a phrase. (Pun sort-of intended.) The NX-01 also had both, although the physical dish was, at least to me, more prominent.

What makes the “there were all kinds of deflectors” theory so unpersuasive to me is that in TOS, we never — and I mean never — saw any starships with a blue-glow navigational deflector. Of course, we mostly saw Constitution-class starships when it came to Federation vessels (for reasons of practical economy); but this absence of a glowing deflector is the case even in alien starships.

Further, it’s the case in real life that array-type (non-dish) radars are clearly more advanced than dish-type radars. (Although, again, you can try to argue (if indeed it’s the case) that the fact that the Axanar’s blue glow emanates from a dish means it’s not in fact an array but something of any energy field interaction.)

You can see an example of the latest type of array-based radar technology in the following image, showing what’s inside the radome of a modern fighter:

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSgn79TgDsREPPlMvbDyIGsj0rlCUy6Ra2PcexM3O9n_n9z0_9Q

67. Alex Rosenzweig - January 10, 2014

“I think Bob Orci should take notes on what these fan production’s are doing.”

I do, too. To be fair, the real test would be to see what the fan productions would deliver if given the kind of production money that the feature films had, because otherwise there’s no real way to compare them, at least not visually. Story-wise, though, oh, yeah…

Speaking just as a single viewer, I went to see “Into Darkness” on its opening weekend. I liked the first half a lot, and hated the second half. A week later, I watched “Pilgrim of Eternity” (episode 1 of “Star Trek Continues”), and an hour later was perfectly happy, having had a much, much more rewarding experience. That episode, coupled with the release of a novel called _Rise of the Federation: A Choice of Futures_, inspired me to write an article about Star Trek’s style of storytelling and what it brings to the table that so much else doesn’t. Unfortunately, Abrams and co. have not…yet…met that potential, in ways that the fan films–despite miniscule (by comparison) budgets–have done routinely.

I was amused, BTW, at the reactions I got to my comments about 2014 early in this comment thread. I completely stand by them, BTW. ;) While it’s certainly true that the number of people who watch the fan productions or read the books may be small compared to those who see a feature film (though the fan productions now get a couple of million hits apiece, which isn’t a small number in absolute terms!), the public awareness of this stuff is increasing. The past year has seen a big upswing in “mainstream” media coverage of these productions, for example. There’s even a great clip out there of Tom Hanks talking about “Star Trek Continues”. :)

Numbers aside, though, the creativity and commitment to Star Trek in all these projects is amazing to watch, or read. And assuming that everything comes out as scheduled (which is, let’s face it, a pretty big assumption, given the history of the fan productions; I’m pretty sure the novels will be fine), the amount of material is going to be huge.

We can argue from today ’til tomorrow about how good or not good any given project is. I for one am consistently and completely unimpressed with the Abrams feature films. Oh, they’re big and pretty and glitzy, but I’ve walked out of the theaters feeling like they were also…errr…hollow. I didn’t have that feeling from “Pilgrim of Eternity”, nor from “Kitumba”. And even if only about 100,000 people or so are reading each novel, I still argue that they consistently bring more to the table, creatively, than Trek on film (even really *good* Trek on film) has for decades now. And there’s always the *potential* to reach many more people.

I’m particularly looking forward to “Axanar”, _Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel_, and the new “Seekers” series, as well as “Renegades” and the upcoming episodes of both “ST Phase II” and “ST Continues”.

So, yeah, in terms of interesting material, 2014 is looking huge for Trek, and I am proud to lend my support to these projects.

68. sean - January 10, 2014

Axanar sounds fun. I’m interested in seeing how they bring Robau (not Rabau, as they spelled it) in from the JJ universe into the Prime universe.

69. MikeTen - January 10, 2014

We also lost James Avery, better know as Uncle Phil on the Fresh Price of Bel Air. He played Klingon General K’Vagh in the season four augments story.

70. Dave in RI - January 10, 2014

Looking at that poster for “The Galileo Seven”, the first thing I thought of was the giant cyclops from Lost in Space

71. K-7 - January 10, 2014

“We can argue from today ’til tomorrow about how good or not good any given project is. I for one am consistently and completely unimpressed with the Abrams feature films.”

And I, for one, and completely unimpressed with most everything I have ever seen you post here on Trekmovie.com.

Enjoy the fat and lame Trek fan productions, because they are all that fans like you deserve to get.

72. TrekMadeMeWonder - January 10, 2014

67. Alex Rosenzweig

I just watched ‘Pilgrim of Eternity’ again, Alex based on your recommendation.

I actually [almost] shed at tear when Michele Specht (Dr. Elise McKennah) shot Apollo with the Phaser. Nice musical touch there.

Kim Stinger acting as Lt. Nyota Uhura was spot on throughout

Vic was demonstrating some good acting again as Kirk in this one.

Great wholesome Trek story too!

That makes over three hours of new Phase II/Continues episodes for me this week. Thanks again crew members!

I am starting to think that this IS the future of Trekdom.

73. TrekMadeMeWonder - January 10, 2014

Sorry to disagree with you K-7. But I really am impressed with the scope of these new Treks.

And with the difficulties in making them, it amazes me even more!

74. DiscoSpock - January 10, 2014

@72

You saw a different episode then me then. I saw a lame attempt to bring Apollo back, and and actor and story-line that were utterly unconvincing. It was another “let’s bring in another geriatric Trek actor” attempt by these fan productions, which are frankly getting embarrassing for both the very old actors and us fans who have to watch them attempt, in futile fashion, to capture the magic of their original performances that are 45+ years old not. That fan episode was painful for me to watch. At least do something new in these productions, for Christ’s sake.

75. TrekMadeMeWonder - January 10, 2014

Disco. You could almost be talking about JJ’s Treks in post @74.

I recommend that you watch it one more time. This time without expecting this “fan made” production to stroke you like a “professionally made” movie that may have cost two hundred MILLION dollars more to make.

Seriously. When you take in to account the scale of effort put forth by these 40 or so Trekkies, against the many hundreds it takes to make a modern day Trek, then I think you would agree that the scope of these new voyages will start to amaze you too.

Seriously, Disco. I recommend that you watch it one more time.
This time watch it with practicality in mind.

And open your heart to the message in the Pilgrim of Eternity when you see it. I think you will acknowledge that with the help of these new crews that Trek’s heart still beats very well.

76. Alex Rosenzweig - January 10, 2014

71 – ““We can argue from today ’til tomorrow about how good or not good any given project is. I for one am consistently and completely unimpressed with the Abrams feature films.”

And I, for one, and completely unimpressed with most everything I have ever seen you post here on Trekmovie.com.

Enjoy the fat and lame Trek fan productions, because they are all that fans like you deserve to get.”

My, touchy, aren’t we…? ;)

(Considering how much I haven’t actually been posting here over the past couple of years… ;) )

Well, diversity of opinion is what it’s all about. I can assure you, I do enjoy the fan productions, and I share them with many other folks who enjoy them, too. Have a nice day!

77. Ahmed - January 10, 2014

@76. Alex Rosenzweig

“(Considering how much I haven’t actually been posting here over the past couple of years… ;) )”

Guess that why you are not aware that K-7 is a proud member of The Praetorian Guard that defend Abrams-Trek, specially STID, against all enemies foreign and domestic to the end of time :)

78. izmunuti - January 10, 2014

77th?

79. izmunuti - January 10, 2014

Nope. ;-)

80. Vultan - January 10, 2014

#76

Well put, sir. I commend you for your maturity.

81. K-7 - January 10, 2014

@77

Ahmed, but you are much more famous than I in Trek fandom. I won’t bring it up again here for some that may be familiar with your “stardom,” since I promised you I’d stop referring to that incident. ;-)

@76.

Alex, you are not fooling me. You pretend to be all reasoned and thoughtful, but you are able to get in these supposedly subtle jibes against JJ trek within your long-winded statement.

@75

TrekMadeMeWonder. Well if I am a member of the pro-JJ Pretorian Guard as Ahmed suggests, then, my friend, in contrast, you would obviously be considered a member of the anti-JJ KGB. :-)

PS: Ahmed, now I see your point about you always bitching about MJ and my “gang” always disagreeing with you. Looks like you got your own gang now — congrats!

82. Ahmed - January 10, 2014

@79. K-7

Wait, you took it as an insult ?
Come on dude, The Praetorian Guard were considered Rome’s elite special forces just like Delta Force nowadays.

83. Jonboc - January 10, 2014

#61. “I think Bob Orci should take notes on what these fan production’s are doing..”

Umm…no. Just…no.

84. Alex Rosenzweig - January 10, 2014

#77 – ” ‘(Considering how much I haven’t actually been posting here over the past couple of years… ;) )’

Guess that why you are not aware that K-7 is a proud member of The Praetorian Guard that defend Abrams-Trek, specially STID, against all enemies foreign and domestic to the end of time :)”

Ahh, that explains it. Well, as I said, to each his own.

#81 – “Alex, you are not fooling me. You pretend to be all reasoned and thoughtful, but you are able to get in these supposedly subtle jibes against JJ trek within your long-winded statement.”

Did anybody really think I was going for subtle? Somehow I doubt that. I didn’t think so, myself. I wasn’t subtly jibing; I was coming right out and saying it. ;) I had a much, much more enjoyable time watching “Pilgrim of Eternity” and “Kitumba” than I did watching either of JJ’s Trek features. If you enjoyed those films, though, hey, cool. ‘s all good. Different strokes and all that.

To paraphrase a very, very old line from Trek, I have these fan films, and you have JJ Trek. May you find your way as pleasant.

85. TrekMadeMeWonder - January 10, 2014

81. K-7 Time for a clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO1nvmDjofo

Fun and light hearted.

Something JJ has been missing overall in his pricey Treks.

86. Craiger - January 10, 2014

The next Trek series should show the how TNG’s era changed due to Nero’s tech arriving in the 23rd Century. Maybe they could have on the Enterprise E’s sister ship. Or the Enterprise E with a new Captain after Picard. Or maybe the Enterprise F?

87. Hat Rick - January 10, 2014

@Craiger (86) — Super Trek tech, I think, would be amazing.

88. Blue Thunder - January 10, 2014

Jospeh Ruskin was a remarkable character actor. His role as Galt will always be the most memorable in this old school Star Trek fan’s book. In many ways, Galt reminded me of another famous science fiction villain. One Ming The Merciless from Flash Gordon.

All that aside, Mr. Ruskin and his talents will be sadly missed.

R.I.P. Joseph Ruskin(1924 to 2014). You will be sadly missed. 500 quatloos have been bid on Heaven, itself.

http://vimeo.com/4438987

89. Blue Thunder - January 10, 2014

@MJ – Unconvincing geriatrics actor? That description DOES NOT compute(no pun intended). It is the total opposite of Michael Forest, period. Mr. Forest is a very convincing actor. One who has done plenty of stage, screen, and television work going all the way back to the late 1950′s. He is also an accomplished Shakespearean stage actor. One who did plenty of work with the San Diego Shakespeare Festival. The only horrid and embarrassing idea was his unfortunate involvement with the Star Trek Continues production. I would have preferred to have seen him return in P2 instead of that rip-off.

“I like the original crew acting better on Star Trek Continues — that was the one element in which I think it is better than Phase II. Star Trek: Continues is the best one I’ve seen to date, slightly outclassing Phase 2″

Concerning that issue, I’ll quote the following from Kirk Douglas, himself.

“You can put icing on a pile of manure, and it is still not cake.”

90. MC1 Doug - January 10, 2014

Perhaps they are NOT doing all of these fan projects to allure CBS, but because they want to have some fun creating a 21st century version of fanzines.

Such negativity in here! Lighten up. These productions can be fun… and usually are.

91. Red Dead Ryan - January 10, 2014

Blue Thunder,

I believe that Matt asked you to cease your trolling. Please clean up your act and smarten up already!!!!

92. MJ - January 10, 2014

“plenty of stage, screen, and television work going all the way back to the late 1950′s”

Exactly my point. That was a lifetime ago when he was in his prime — that was 60 years, ago, dude.

Thanks for providing my point for me.

93. Blue Thunder - January 10, 2014

@91 – And a Merry Christmas to you, too.

@92 – Obviously you have proved yours by your usage of the phrase unconvincing geriatrics. I’ve heard of disrespect towards one’s elders, but this? Well if that isn’t a certain description of age discrimination, then I don’t know what is.

Dr. Zaius was right about mankind and his neanderthal origins.

94. MJ - January 10, 2014

@93

Nope, it’s just realizing when it’s a bad idea to put someone in a position that they are not really credible anymore in. It embarrasses that individual, and is an embarrassment to the producers.

“A man’s got to know his limitations.”
- Dirty Harry.

And you quoting Dr. Zaius is funny, because you remind me a lot of General Ursus with all your war-mongering over-the-top remarks here lately.

95. Blue Thunder - January 10, 2014

Actually, I take after the character of Taylor more than I do Ursus.

Nevertheless, Ursus may have had a point about the human equation. So, I will take that as a compliment.

In a way you are correct about it being a bad idea, situation and principle- wise. However, Michael Forest is far from anything that is not credible.

Nevertheless, you have your views and I have mine.

96. MJ - January 10, 2014

“Ahmed, now I see your point about you always bitching about MJ and my “gang” always disagreeing with you. Looks like you got your own gang now — congrats!”

Yea, Ahmed, congrats on your new group, dude!

And the Double Standard Adventure is just beginning…

97. Curious Cadet - January 11, 2014

Chris Hemsworth will announce the Oscar nominations on January 16th.

Anybody up for some Oscar predictions for STID?

98. Blue Thunder - January 11, 2014

@97 – Probably for SFX.

99. Cygnus-X1 - January 11, 2014

61. Emperor Mike of the Alternate Empire – January 9, 2014
67. Alex Rosenzweig – January 10, 2014

—To be fair, the real test would be to see what the fan productions would deliver if given the kind of production money that the feature films had…—

You raise an interesting point there. Would passion-driven fan films succumb to the temptations of big money and thereby become corrupted and sell out their Trek values and sensibilities?

It seems an all too common theme these days, not only in the movie biz, but in music and book publishing as well, consequent to the rise of corporate conglomerates which have gobbled up the major movie studios and increasingly override artistic decisions within their entertainment subsidiaries with short-term pecuniary, bottom-line thinking.

Phase II and Continues are both very impressive, and, as not-for-profit labors of love, are immune from temptations to sell out. But what would happen if tens of $millions were introduced into those productions? Of course, the effects of the money would vary as the motives and character of the people supplying the funds. But, odds are, there’d be some degree of selling out.

As for the rivalry between Phase II and Continues, the competition might bring out the best in both outfits.

I agree that Axanar looks exciting. The cast is great and if the production values are as good as those in P2 and STC, if it’s a good story it might set a new bar for fan films!

100. Andy Patterson - January 11, 2014

@ 52

bmar,

Well I’d pay to see your notes. We need to pull a Snowden and liberate those files from ScyFy. (I miss SciFi). Those things need to see the light of day. I remember the stuff they did show was great. I also remember you telling me the stuff that never aired was gold. Maybe someone’ll get smart and do something good about it.

101. barney - January 11, 2014

97. Curious Cadet – January 11, 2014

Chris Hemsworth will announce the Oscar nominations on January 16th.

Anybody up for some Oscar predictions for STID?

——————————————————————————————-

Best Visual Effects

Best make up

best score.

102. Curious Cadet - January 11, 2014

@101 Barney,

Interesting choices.

It’s almost always nominated for vfx, and sfx, and I expect it to again. But Trek hasn’t been nominated for score since the first four movies. ST09 didn’t get nominated, and neither it nor STID has been nominated for the Golden Globes. There is some debate how original an effort STID is and as such, probably won’t get a nomination.

Make up is another interesting choice. They’ve only ever been nominated for TUC and FC, both of which had dozens of alien makeup. ST09 won, presumably for all the Romulan and Vulcan makeup. But STID is predominately white humans. The ONLY featured alien is the ONE Klingon. Everything else is background. It’s hard to marine they would get a nomination for the one Klingon.

The only other thing they’ve ever been nominated for is production design and cinematography, and that was two decades ago. And I’m not up enough on the current criteria to guess whether STID achieves that threshold. certainly ST09 didn’t and I don’t see them as being that different.

Wardrobe might get a shot this year. If nothing else, all the new uniforms looked really nice on screen.

103. Jim Nightshade - January 12, 2014

ok everybody bitching about primitive sets, efx, geriatric lousy old trek actors etc….in these fan productions…well they are better efx n sets than what tos had n many actors from tos…so no matter what gets done ya gotta hate….me i personally admire the people that make these not for profit fan works…lots of work time n expense basically to thank us fans more like homages really..and as others mentioned it aint just a few fans watching these but millions…and renegades got almost a quarter of a million from us kickstarter donators…so more than a few hundred fans are involved in enjoying these….and yes i also loved trek 09 and liked stid too…if enuf fans support these productions n still enjoy seeing their fave tos actors n villains again even tho oh my gawd they are older n fatter(beats being dead)….many of us get older n fatter maybe we should just kill ourselves to spare this fate….anyway you haters just keep on hating….remember we are fans n fan stands for fanatic….most of you guys dont fit that defination but at least accept us as fans n let us read and enjoy the fan news n productions we like without having you guys insulting us and the many talented people involved donating their time n talents for us fans….and those of you who do seem to be toning down the insults n hate, thanks….

104. Jim Nightshade - January 12, 2014

despite some nominations here n there dont think stid was unique n successful enough to win much…lucky they won for makeup last time …and while i did enjoy stid in imax 3d…i have to admit its so similar to the many brainless summer action epics every year like transformers, gi joe etc…after a while these fast paced overly computer efx driven movies all start to blend together, lookin n sounding alike…lessening their long term impact like a great story, scrpt n characters with depth would be….heres hoping the next trek will have better everything to honor n celebrate 50 years of trek….

105. Curious Cadet - January 12, 2014

Another good article on the state of race in Hollywood …

http://www.npr.org/2014/01/12/261823768/the-globes-will-be-golden-but-hollywood-remains-mostly-white?sc=ipad&f=1008

The Globes Will Be Golden, But Hollywood Remains Mostly White.

106. Disinvited - January 12, 2014

#104. Jim Nightshade – January 12, 2014

And yet, it was afterthought 3D. I ask this question in total ignorance seeking to learn, “Has any of this afterthought (STID was produced in 2D and then “converted” to 3D after.) 3D FX ever won an Oscar?”

It just seems logical to assume that any of STID’s 2D fx segments rendered afterward in 3D will pale when put up against nominated segments conceived and filmed in 3D from the git go?

107. The Fonze - January 12, 2014

In other news the most updated top 10 box office of 2013 list shows that Into Darkness actually didnt place in the top 10 for 2013
It was nugged out of the way by Oz the Great and Powerful.

Into Darkness was actually the 11th highest grossing film of 2013

108. Blue Thunder - January 12, 2014

Phase II and Continues are both very impressive, and, as not-for-profit labors of love, are immune from temptations to sell out. But what would happen if tens of $millions were introduced into those productions? Of course, the effects of the money would vary as the motives and character of the people supplying the funds. But, odds are, there’d be some degree of selling out.

As for the rivalry between Phase II and Continues, the competition might bring out the best in both outfits.

@99 – If I ever win the lottery, I’ll definately donate a portion of my winnings to the Phase II production. And it(that motivation)will be for the sole purpose of donating to an excellent cause, a brilliant artistic endeavor, and the positive continuation of the late Gene Roddenberry’s original science fiction morality play.

As far as STC is concerned….well, to use the old school BlueChristmas Gift saying…’lumps of coal and bundles of switches.’

As far as the rivalry is concerned, it has brought out the best in Phase II(i.e. with the next step in the series evolution in the P2 viginette ‘Boldly Going’, as well as ‘The Holiest Thing’ coming out on Valentine’s Day – the beginning of the Enterprise’s redesign ad refitting)..

109. The Fonze - January 12, 2014

106
After thought 3D?
It might have been a conversion, but they decided long before it went to lens, that the movie was going to be a 3D release.
It was filmed with 3D in mind.

Afterthought would have been like Clash of the Titans 3D or Last Airbender 3D.

110. Disinvited - January 13, 2014

#109. The Fonze – January 12, 2014

I’d like to know how what you assert could even be possible given:

Not one bit of STID footage was shot in 3D. JJ concentrated on filming the 2D version that he planned and wanted during principal photography to final cut.

“So we said, well, we can do a 2D version that we love that can also be converted to 3D.” – J.J. Abrams

Abrams didn’t stop being a 3D doubter/opposer just because the studio told him STID was going to be released in 3D one way or another. However, he did change his mind after said principle photography was complete and the studio showed him some demonstrations of the technology that could be employed. And THAT I believe qualifies as labeling STID’s 3D conversion as an afterthought given JJ’s plans were 2D and 2D was what he stuck with during principal photography unto the cut that he “loved.”

But this digresses away from my question, “Does anyone know of any instance when 2D converted to 3D fx beat out initially conceived in 3D and filmed in 3D fx award-wise?” I’m ignorant of where the industry professionals stand on and feel about such things. It’s been decades since I last held a newly pressed issue of CINEFX in my mitts.

111. Jim Nightshade - January 13, 2014

Also 106 jj n crew used a new technical 3d system that used special computers n some cameras to pre mark n measure the movie for 3d rendering…state of the art stuff as well as some scenes filmed in imax…..and that was the best looking imax 3d pst conversion ive ever seen…the 3d was better than most live style action movies ive seen…whatever that new system was it worked…i think it had something to do with prerendering n measuring to make the post 3d more accurate n full…id luv to see an article bout what that process was n how it worked…

112. Jim Nightshade - January 13, 2014

disinvited i dont know the answer but im pretty sure 3d efx dont play into efx awards at all…fir instance gravity had great efx n would probably win on that not on the 3d….and as i mentioned stid did use a new state of the art process tha did use special cameras/computers while filming to measure n improve the 3d also jj knew it was in 3d so not an afterthought it was planned for…and while it might not equal a 3d filmed movie it was at least 2 and a half 3d…it didnt look viewmaster cut out like 3d at all…it was awesome….the volcano n opening scenes were very 3d striking….probably helped by imax cameras as well…

113. Jim Nightshade - January 13, 2014

unless the awards come out with special 3d awards like best 3d movie, the 3d aspect probably does not come into play as affecting vfx either positively or negatively…

114. Curious Cadet - January 13, 2014

@107 The Fonze,

STID did place 10th for the 2013 CALENDAR year (Jan 1-Dec 31). But that’s an arbitrary sampling that means nothing to anyone — or let me rephrase: I can’t imagine who would care. Paramount’s own fiscal tax reporting year is Oct 1-Sept 30, so they would have no interest in how much STID made during the 2013 CALENDAR year.

The ONLY measure that matters to anyone with respect to ranking films annually is how they did over the course of their entire box office run — i.e. films RELEASED in 2013 until they CLOSED.

And STID unequivocally finished in 11th place for the domestic 2013 box office year.

It is patently disingenuous to suggest STID placed anywhere else. It’s the equivalent of saying AVATAR was NOT the #1 domestic box office movie for 2009, because technically it had only achieved 5th place by December 31, 2009. A ridiculous argument that would get you laughed out of the room.

115. Ahmed - January 13, 2014

Speaking of awards

==========================
Trek People’s Choice Award Results

The 40th People’s Choice Awards were held January 8th and the winners have been announced.

Star Trek into Darkness was nominated in three categories; Favorite Movie, Favorite Action Movie, and Favorite Movie Duo (Chris Pine and Zachary Quinto).

There was no love for Star Trek during this year’s People’s Choice Awards, as it lost out in all three categories for which it was nominated.

In the Favorite Movie category, Iron Man 3 was the winner, and Iron Man 3 also beat out Star Trek into Darkness in the Favorite Action Movie category.

Sandra Bullock and George Clooney (Gravity) beat out Pine and Quinto in the Favorite Movie Duo category.

http://www.trektoday.com/content/2014/01/trek-peoples-choice-award-results/

116. Disinvited - January 13, 2014

#112. Jim Nightshade – January 13, 2014

Well, I’m learning here and all I know is what JJ said:

http://collider.com/jj-abrams-star-trek-2-3d-interview/136236/

“We’re shooting on film, and the reason for that is I wanted to shoot with anamorphic, and you can’t shoot 3D in anamorphic.

I’ve had some people make fun of me about that. Yeah, we’ve done some tests. Not only lens flare tests, but we’ve done 3D tests. We actually converted a bunch of the original [2009] movie, which looked really good. That was the thing that made me feel like, maybe that would be okay. But, I didn’t want to shoot the movie digitally.

It will be converted, for those who want to see it in 3D. But, I wanted to match the look of the first one and shoot it anamorphically.

I did not fight for the 3D. It was something that the studio wanted to do, and I didn’t want to do it. And then, when I saw the first movie converted in sections, I thought that it actually looked really cool. So, I was okay with their doing it, as long as I could shoot the movie the way I wanted to, in anamorphic film, and then let them convert it. So, those who want to see it in 3D, which looked pretty cool, can do it, and those that want to see it in 2D can do that too.” – JJ Abrams

So maybe it wasn’t an afterthought for the studio but it sure seemed to be one for its director. And as there was no 3D pre-preparation in anyway whatsoever done while filming the 2009 film whose conversions “sold” him on letting the studio proceed, the process you are describing seems bizarre or at least not the same process he sang the praises of?

117. Disinvited - January 13, 2014

#114. Curious Cadet – January 13, 2014

Once upon a blue moon I mentioned that I read that in STID because of the last minute name change to Harrison had to rejigger some lips in footage already shot with some process Bad Robot had developed. You wanted to know more.

I came across when first the process had been developed and used. It was for their 2009 Trek to reloop Nimoy’s dialogue in the campfire scene:

http://www.awn.com/vfxworld/where-no-star-trek-has-gone

“We shot Leonard with high-def cameras and loosely matched the lighting to what was shot on set. The next step was to build teeth, tongue and lips, the lips were the only element that was 3D. We created a rig that linked up Leonard’s digital teeth, tongue and lips and used rotomation to match the high-def footage from the ADR session. The shot could have been completed in 2D except the scene was lit by a fire pit and we needed the interactive lighting produced in Maya.” – Edson Williams

118. Curious Cadet - January 14, 2014

@117 Disinvited,

Wow … That has some frightening implications. I don’t really recall the conversation, nor can I imagine why they would have to loop dialogue in those scenes, but regardless, they basically created a CGI wireframe mouth for Nimoy. They literally changed his performance.

I’m not entirely sure they did that in every case in STID. I did notice at least one instance where the mouth didn’t match the word exactly, which I think was on Weller. But that could have been an artifact of that digital repair as well. But as I pointed out Ericsson and Harrison, are so similar as to not really warrant any special treatment … I would be more concerned about the change in audio quality of the surrounding lines, for which I detected none.

In the case of Nimoy, they obviously had to change the dialogue, likely due to the writer’s strike preventing them from making adjustments on set. In the case of the Harrison name change, usually directors are loath to replace an original performance with looped lines, and the name change would require a lot of otherwise unnecessary changes across the cast and movie.

Either way, considering how things turned out it was probably wasted money. So what if people discovered the Ericsson connection? The trailers themselves had so many blatant clues that using the Ericsson name wouldn’t be any more confirming, and it would have been a lot more related to Star Trek lore in the end. Yet another case of Abrams mystery box fail. However minimal, I’d love to see a total of all the costs directly attributable to concealing Khan’s identity.

119. jim nightshade - January 14, 2014

yes disinvited i agree with you regarding what jj wanted to do i remember reading that interview then later i read about some of the improvements they were using on stid for better post 3d n it did involved some specialized equipment…..perhaps a new technique or process…or maybe it was all bs..i dunno…but the 3d was great much better than most live 3d movies..not dark or murky either…

120. Disinvited - January 15, 2014

#119. jim nightshade – January 14, 2014

My understanding from what I read (and that could be b.s. too) was as the initial studio STID 3D conversion segments were shown to J.J. he went from passive to active 3D conversion participant. They went back to his notes covering the completed principal photography and set up the sets exactly as they had been for said principal photography but minus the live actors. He then put the 3D converter thingee (camera?) at the precise mounting and angles he used for his anamorphic film lens/camera setup and tracking for each take. In this way the 3D conversion was able to nearly exactly duplicate the 3D of the sets the actors were moving around in. I surmise the 3D conversion of the actors themselves was done in the usual 2D to 3D way.

I am unclear as to how Paramount chose to upgrade 2D anamorphic CGI to 3D. I would imagine it could be as simple as re-crunching a bunch of numbers but I can’t imagine penny-pinching Paramount going back to the FX houses to PAY more for re-rendering already paid for 2D FX?

121. Disinvited - January 15, 2014

#118. Curious Cadet – January 14, 2014

I agree, they likely didn’t need to do it in every case. And I am certain you are the one with which I was having the conversation about how Bob said that changing the name from Ericcsen to Harrison involved some lip magic to fix already filmed lines. I even recall you making the same analysis about the 2 names not being that far apart to really need it. You may be right. It is quite possible the rewritten lines, for some reason, required far more extensive changes than merely the name. I imagine people consumed with generating a magic box surprise can go through all kinds of hoops to preserve it.

122. Disinvited - January 15, 2014

#121. Disinvited – January 15, 2014

“magic box” should be “mystery box”

123. Who cares - January 15, 2014

From the IDW Khan miniseries issue number 4. Admiral Marcus had the cosmetic surgery performed on Khan before he was woken up, his memory was also blocked, the goal was not to hide his identity from the 23rd century populace but rather to hide it from Khan himself. Marcus also flatly stated that Khan would eventually regain his true memory and thus kept the other 72 from the Botany Bay as a safeguard.

During the time Khan worked on the already nearly completed USS Vengeance he did the following, increased warp capability to nearly warp 10, designed and built the portable transwarp transporter, designed the long range drone torpedoes, and finally destroyed the Klingon moon Praxis. Khan, who had been slowly regaining parts of his memory for months, finally recalled his true identity as he watched Praxis explode on the last page.

124. NuFan - January 15, 2014

Just one issue left and I think I know how it will end.

125. Curious Cadet - January 15, 2014

The Visual Effects Society Nominations went out and Gravity appears to be a top contender, beating STID 8 to 3. If so STID could walk away from the Oscars empty handed this year.

http://www.thewrap.com/Visual-Effects-Society-Awards-Gravity

126. Curious Cadet - January 15, 2014

Just took a look at the BAFTAs and Trek was only nominated for one award — Special Visual Effects. But it seems pretty clear that Gravity is likely going to sweep a lot of these awards, given that it’s a well thought of film which they won’t give best picture to.

Music score is likely out too, it hasn’t made ANY nomination lists I’ve seen.

It has been nominated by the Art Directors Guild for best Production Design for a Fantasy FIlm, however, it’s up against Elysium, Gravity, and Oblivion, so that seems a highly unlikely win.

It was not nominated for a cinematography award either. Nor was it nominated for sound (another typical category).

So far, it’s only been nominated and won best location scouting. Well, that’s something.

Oscar nominations are announced tomorrow. Don’t hold your breath.

127. Jim Nightshade - January 16, 2014

yeh that sounds about right disinvited…im glad they went the extra steps to make the 3d better…it and the imax were the best things about stid making it more of a spectacle ride experience than any other trek movie..i didnt think they could do better than trek 2009 in that regard but they did…

128. Jim Nightshade - January 16, 2014

Who cares…that synopsis of the khan comic sounds ridiculous…not so much the surgery n amnesia(although how did they add the english accent hah) but his designing increasee warp n all…he was a despot n dictator not an engineer…even though i know he was a genius n grasped thing fast i dont think that sounds very realistic…i did think that adm. marcus s strategy of using khan was sound but not from a technical engineer standpoint being men out of time n dictator supermen not designed to be engineers they would likely make others do their work kinda like hitler…interesting though

129. Jim Nightshade - January 16, 2014

hey that coulda been interesting if as khan got his memory back piece by piece he would change his hairstyle n clothing or drop his accent to act n be more n more like ricardo montlebon…coulda been scary psycho or funny….but again only trekkies would know whats going on hahah

130. Curious Cadet - January 16, 2014

Well the Oscar nominations are out …

STID got one nomination for Best Visual Effects, which it most likely will not win. I saw Gravity again last night and man, they really did some innovative stuff, whereas STID really didn’t do much more than we’d already seen in ST09, for which they did not win the oscar either.

So, I don’t expect STID to win any more awards at this point, unless one of the guild awards sets out to correct a wrong perceived by the Oscars. For instance, Gravity was nominated for production design, and while I believed the sets I was seeing were real, they really were just depictions of what already exists, however well done. And it was the only nomination in the so-called Fantasy film category. However, I would still expect Elysium, or Oblivion to beat STID.

So STID finishes the awards season about the way it played out with audiences. It was a good film, but nothing special, excelling in the areas one would expect such a film to excel.

131. Danpaine - January 16, 2014

130. Curious Cadet – January 16, 2014

“So STID finishes the awards season about the way it played out with audiences. It was a good film, but nothing special, excelling in the areas one would expect such a film to excel.”

Well put. Star Trek “3″ really needs to knock the ball out of the park, for a number of reasons. By 2016 Trek isn’t even going to be a blip on the general public’s radar.

132. Jonboc - January 16, 2014

#130 “So STID finishes the awards season about the way it played out with audiences. It was a good film, but nothing special, excelling in the areas one would expect such a film to excel.”

lol you guys crack me up. You seem to expect, in some dream-like fashion, that Trek should deliver some type of oscar award winning story and effects…when in reality, aside from the motion picture, it really never has. And then, when it does get a worthy nomination…the JJ haters try to spin…what is an honor, for ANY film… into some sort of twisted “failure” because it wasn’t nominated for MORE…and then, you think that ill- perceived “failure” lends some weird sense of validation to your criticisms! lol Like I said, you guys crack me up!

133. boy - January 17, 2014

ST09 had 4 oscar nominations.

we can all agree that ST09 was the better film.It succeeded in every aspect compared to STID. Box office, critical reception, awards….

134. Spock's Bangs - January 17, 2014

133. Every aspect? wrong…foreign box office for the first movie was simply dismal compared to Into Darkness.

FACT!

135. Crewman Darnell - January 17, 2014

When two Star Trek fans behaved like total Jackasses.

Must see to believe:

http://io9.com/two-fans-broke-onto-star-trek-tng-sets-to-film-their-o-1503465146?autoplay=1

136. Cygnus-X1 - January 17, 2014

135. Crewman Darnell – January 17, 2014

Yeah, that’s creepy.

137. Crewman Darnell - January 17, 2014

Creepy is right. That balding guy comes off like a textbook narcissist. I’d sure like to know what if anything, happened to those two knuckleheads…

138. crazydaystrom - January 17, 2014

135. Crewman Darnell

L! O! L!
I was going to only watch a few minutes of that bit of gonzo guerrilla documentary filmmaking but as with any train wreck it was near impossible to turn away. So amazing that those two clowns were able to do what they did and nearly got away with it. That sort of thing could never happen these days. Not without ‘inside’ help, which may have been how they ‘got on the Enterprise’ in the first place. The abrupt ending was classic! “COME HERE! Come here NOW!!!” LOL!!!!

Thanks for the link Crewman D. IO9 is not one of the sites I visit daily so I might have missed this one. Gonna laugh about it for a while I’m sure.

139. Vultan - January 17, 2014

That video is hilarious. What a couple of nimrods! But could you get a replica uniform that early in the series? Or are we looking at an inside job? Maybe an extra or a member of the production crew…?

Ha, not for much longer. Imagine the mugshot.
Say cheese, Ensign Idiot!

140. Keachick - January 17, 2014

#133 – Well, no. STID is as good, if not, better film, as Star Trek (2009). And yes, overseas (outside of the USA) box office performance was better for STID. Perhaps foreign audiences appreciated the second movie a bit more than the first, unlike the US audience.

Awards nominees and winners have always been as much about internal Hollywood politics as they have been about genuine performance. I suspect similar applies to BAFTA nominees and winners. I only take these awards ceremonies with half the seriousness that their promoters would wish me to take.

141. Who cares - January 17, 2014

@jim nightshade. In Space Seed Khan told Kirk he was an engineer, and in the first three issues of the Khan miniseries his technological brilliance is established quite well. As far as the memory alteration I would think the machine from “Dagger of the Mind” would handle that quite well. Even if that machine is not available there are many other methods of altering or blocking memories that have been seen in Star Trek.

142. Curious Cadet - January 17, 2014

@128. Jim Nightshade,
“that synopsis of the khan comic sounds ridiculous…”

Yup. I have to admit it wasn’t as lame as changing his appearance strictly to conceal his identity from others, and his RACE unnecessarily along with it.

However, the old, wipe his memory and try to convince him he’s somebody else, is kind of been done to death, especially in popular sci-fi circles. It’s even worse that they hung a lantern on it (they know he’s eventually going to get his memory back, indeed). Though the accent is relatively easy to explain now since the guy is most likely going to emulate those around him, in particular the British. But the Whitewashing is even more egregious now as Marcus chose to make him a white Englishman, rather then any other ethnicity. And at the end of the day, Khan is still a terrorist born with dark skin, regardless of what color it is now. Then again I guess we’ve moved on to the excuse that Cumberbatch was the best actor they saw.

But, once Khan figured out who he was, then there’s no explanation why he wouldn’t change himself back, especially since he had the time, and everyone was looking for John Harrison (oh wait, I guess the next issues can address that, we’ll see).

Also, if Khan didn’t know who he was, or remember the 72 crew, until later, how would he design the torpedoes to house them? Moreover, wouldn’t “Harrison” find it odd that he doesn’t remember ANYTHING about his advanced warp engine classes, or any 23rd century science or technology? The last thing he would remember is from the 20th century, and if they wiped that, then he’d basically be like Uhura from the Changeling — and have to be re-educated from scratch. So in less than a year’s time, he relearned all the knowledge necessary to design all those massive projects, better than anybody else in Starfleet, and then built them?

Ridiculous. However, I will say this … it’s a far more interesting story than what we got in the movie. I wonder if Orci came up with it after the outcry over Khan following the movie’s release, or if he planned it from the casting of Cumberbatch?

143. Crewman Darnell - January 17, 2014

138 & 139 crazydaystrom & Vultan
Yep, it sure seemed like those guys were exploiting some kind of advantage to get as far as they did. Maybe “Captain Stone” was a janitor for Paramount Studios in civilian life, but if so, yes where did he get that uniform?

144. Who cares - January 17, 2014

@Curious Cadet. He didn’t design the torpedoes to hold cryotubes, he retrofitted them to after he recovered his full memory following the destruction of Praxis. Carol even used the specific word retrofit in STID when they were examining the cryotube.

145. Blue Thunder - January 17, 2014

It will be interesting to see how things will be wrapped up in the Khan comic. Specifically, how Khan was altered physically to pass himself off as a Caucasian Englishman.

146. Vultan - January 17, 2014

A funny little article:

http://whatculture.com/film/5-great-movies-secretly-ninjas.php

I wonder if Trek has any secret ninjas… hmm…

147. Jim Nightshade - January 17, 2014

ahh ok didnt remember that khan said he was an engineer in space seed….but i also agree that he would shoulda required mo4e time to catch up to modern tech before being very useful but then again oh well…maybe not….loved the explanation re khans english accent too…you guys are all smarter than me…sigh…be sure to update us how the khan comic ends…fascinating stuff thanks guys

148. Curious Cadet - January 18, 2014

@147. Jim Nightshade,
” he would shoulda required mo4e time to catch up to modern tech before being very useful but then again oh well…”

Exactly. Just thinking about “retrofitting” the torpedoes after they were built … This just makes Mrcus look like more of an idiot than he already appears … Especially now that he SAYS he knows Khan will eventually get his memory back!! In which case Khan should be monitored every day, every action, every key stroke he enters into the computer. He should never have had the opportunity to “retrofit” anything.

I haven’t read the comic, but whatever Carol Marcus said in STID does not have anything to do with when Khan built the torpedoes. The most one could glean from her statement is that a standard fuel container had been retrofitted, not the torpedo design. The only way she would know if the torpedo had been retrofitted is if she had seen the original design specs, but she specifically said in STID that it was the one thing she did not have access to from her father and why she felt compelled to sneak onto the Enterprise. Given that the torpedoes would have to be designed to shield the interior to conceal the cryo tubes, as well as special power requirements to maintain the cryo tubes, it’s not likely Khan could have pulled off such major changes after the fact, especially when Admiral Marcus is expecting Khan to regain his memory. It’s a lot easier for me to believe he slipped these things by in the original designs rather than recalling 72 of them for special modifications.

149. Disinvited - January 18, 2014

#148. Curious Cadet – January 18, 2014

Not just that but it flies in the face of how we know production line top secret devices are constructed today to maintain the “top secret”. At best, the only completed units Khan should have ever been allowed near were maybe some prototypes for testing. Once the design was proven viable in prototesting, assembling 72 production line units would have had nothing to do with its designer/creator. You might as well paint in large read letters “TOP SECRET WEAPON” on each production unit if you let a guy known from enemy intelligence gathering to have tested weapons prototypes any were near their assembly.

150. Curious Cadet - January 18, 2014

@149 Disinvited,

True. While I can concoct an elaborate and convoluted way to permit Khan to retrofit the torpedoes (thank you dmduncan), the bigger problem is Orci hanging a lantern on Khan’s temporary memory loss.

Evidently the only plausible excuse Orci could come up with for keeping the 72 bodies frozen was in order to control Khan when his memory came back. But wouldn’t it be a much more effective story if Marcus DIDN’T know Khan might get his memory back and it turns out Khan’s magic blood restored his memory cells? This way, as I said, Marcus should be monitoring absolutely every aspect of Khan’s activities at all time, and scrutinizing every aspect of his designs, especially any changes ordered to those designs.

It seems to me the easiest explanation for keeping the other 72 on ice is to see how effective Khan’s conversion went prior to investing the time and resources into 73 of them.

151. Disinvited - January 18, 2014

#150. Curious Cadet – January 18, 2014

A successfully mind-wipe Khan does hint that the reason the library was chosen as a target was that was where he learned who he really was, and blowing it takes on a more practical sense if Khan knew that no matter how carefully he tried to hide that discovery Marcus’ organization spying in general would eventually uncover it.

152. Disinvited - January 18, 2014

#148. Curious Cadet – January 18, 2014, 147. Jim Nightshade – January 17, 2014

I think you are glossing over just how fast they re-educated Uhura after NOMAD’s mind wipe; not to mention how fast Khan and his minions learned to pilot Reliant which hints at some sort of advance in Computerized educational courses or else why did he need Enterprise crew members in SPACE SEED? Heck, now that I think of it didn’t Gary Mitchell achieve some fantastic data absorption from the ship’s computers in WHERE NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE? I mention that as an upper limit on how fast the Federation’s computers can “educate” someone.

153. Curious Cadet - January 18, 2014

@152. Disinvited,
“I think you are glossing over just how fast they re-educated Uhura after NOMAD’s mind wipe;”

LOL, no I’m choosing to ignore it. One of the more ridiculous editorial choices to keep in the final production script draft. I will say that Uhura does not appear in the subsequent episode though, as presumably she’s being re-educated. ;-)

“why did he need Enterprise crew members in SPACE SEED?”

Exactly. Reliant was 18 years after Space Seed, which was 9 years after STID. Considering that Khan still desperately needed the crew of the Enterprise in Space Seed, I’d say Marcus was in an even worse position to re-educate Khan 9 years earlier. But, one can make up any explanation at all to solve the problem, it’s just the more complicated the explanation, especially when some of that must be explained outside the narrative, the more it strains plausibility within the suspension of disbelief.

BTW — I didn’t really follow your point @151.

154. Disinvited - January 19, 2014

#153. Curious Cadet – January 18, 2014

Oh that just either because he was getting partial memory bits and was directly searching to put it all together or he was looking up something on weapons and came upon some treatise written by Khan that turned his lights on. Either way he knew Marcus’ secret organization was spying on everyone including “Harrison” himself and would eventually uncover his “search history”, shall we say, no matter how clever Khan tried to conceal it. I was just supposing that he calculated as to the exact day by which he’d be found out by Marcus and that he’d lose what element of surprise knowing his personal truth would give Khan. So his library search records existing there forced his hand and what better way to set his plan in motion than to blow it up by a 3rd party and thus prevent Marcus from immediately figuring out Khan was responsible and was setting things up to come gunning for him.

155. Curious Cadet - January 19, 2014

@154 Disinvited.

Ah. Except one thing. We are told that Marcus discovered Khan’s efforts to conceal his 72 mates in the torpedoes, so Marcus already knew Khan had regained his full memory before Khan blew up the Archives.

However, your idea is much more interesting. The problem with the movie is that Marcus knows Khan has gone rogue before he blows up Section 31. So it makes Marcus putting himself in harms way all the more silly.

156. Disinvited - January 19, 2014

#155. Curious Cadet – January 19, 2014

I’m having a Watergate flashback. That Marcus discovered that I don’t dispute but what the muddled narrative does not make clear to me is WHEN Marcus discovered it.

But I believe you are reading the comic so you tell me.

157. Curious Cadet - January 19, 2014

@156 Disinvited,

Ha. No I’m not reading the comic. But the movie tells us when Marcus discovered the plan.

Khan tells Kirk that the reason he went on a killing spree was because he had been discovered trying to smuggle his crew to safety and therefore believed Marcus had killed his “family”, so he responded in kind.

158. Disinvited - January 19, 2014

#157. Curious Cadet – January 19, 2014

That explains Khan’s attack on the conference but for me that still doesn’t make it clear that was the definite reason that the library was blown. I know the movie gives Kirk this “AHA!” scene but you yourself have pointed out Marcus would have had to be a total nincompoop to have known Khan’s personality was activated and need to hold such a conference to figure out who the bomber was.

That’s why I say the narrative is muddled about this. If you look at it one way the library bomb was Marcus’ plan because he wanted to eliminate certain members of Starfleet that he saw as roadblocks to what must be done, at the conference. From another its Khan’s. From another its Marcus’ plan that Harrison adapted for his ends when his Khanness was found out. From another, initially Khan was merely covering his tracks but he had to take advantage of it when Marcus found him out.

The only thing that’s clear to me is however the plan to blow the library arose, Harrison was definitely Khan by the time it came to execute it.

159. Curious Cadet - January 20, 2014

@158. Disinvited,
“That’s why I say the narrative is muddled about this.”

I don’t think you said that before, but yes the narrative is clearly muddled about is and throughout the entire film.

However, taking things at face value: the movie makes it pretty clear — Khan blew up Section 31 at least in part to gain revenge on Marcus for killing his crew. But more importantly, to force the meeting that was mandatory in the face of such an attack — the assembly of all of the Starfleet upper echelon which Khan specifically orchestrated to bring them all out in the open, in one place to attack and have his revenge. There was no reason to do that if he hadn’t already been discovered and thought his crew dead.

Here’s the other thing, Marcus already knew who was responsible for the bomb before it went off thanks to Harewood’s e-mail. Surely Khan was smart enough to know Harewood would send such a message. So why didn’t Khan just do it himself if he was trying NOT to be discovered? He was a smart guy, shouldn’t he have been able to design a simple delay mechanism to allow him to exit the building? Perhaps because he was already a wanted man and couldn’t just walk into the place he had been working for a year?

He also steals a police vehicle immediately following the blast in London, clearly identified and recorded on surveillance video, and later that evening seen attacking Starfleet headquarters with the same vehicle in San Francisco. So Marcus knows it’s him, its confirmed moments after the blast, and Khan’s running around in a stolen cop car. How exactly would he have had the time, or opportunity to then try a covert rescue of his crew, when all of Starfleet everywhere would have been on high alert with instructions to apprehend John Harrison?

For a guy whose motivation to blow up Section 31, as you claim was to erase his tracks so as NOT to be discovered, he took absolutely no precautions to prevent that — in fact he virtually gurantees he will be identified. So my interpretation is that he wants Marcus to know who’s coming after him. And while this Khan is hardly the mastermind he was dipicted as being in Space Seed, even he’s not dumb enough to call a bunch of attention to himself BEFORE he tries to secretly rescue his people.

This is based strictly on what’s clearly evident in the movie. Will Orci try to shoehorn a more complex explanation for the comic into the narrative he’s already gone to painstaking efforts to make clear on screen? Possibly. But then that’s not really canon anyway.

160. Disinvited - January 20, 2014

# 159. Curious Cadet – January 20, 2014

@158. Disinvited,
“That’s why I say the narrative is muddled about this.”

@159. Curious Cadet
I don’t think you said that before, but yes the narrative is clearly muddled about is and throughout the entire film.

See message #156.

You make some sense of it that I didn’t get at the time of viewing. But what sense does it make for Marcus to call such a meeting on Earth knowing the “madman” as well as he does and that Khan’s got an Earth based security vehicle at his disposal? This is Trek’s Starfleet after all. It’s not as if meetings of such caliber haven’t been held on the ships. Knowing he’s dealing with an out of the norm Starfleet officer who Marcus himself “recruited” specifically for those traits, why would Marcus continually try dealing with the Khan problem with standard established procedures and protocols?

And Khan’s got the portable transwarp transporter so why does he even need the police vehicle for a get away and to use in the attack on the meeting? If his goal is to kill Marcus (which he eventually gets around to doing), why is Khan wasting time with this rather obtuse plan that seems to be anything but a “Khan” type plan to me? This is why it registers as something Marcus came up with. Khan wants to dispatch Marcus for killing his “family”?Transwarpport to wherever Marcus is and dispatch him face to face? Need to draw Marcus out? Transwarpport the bomb into the Library while you are a world away.

TWoK sets the Khan pattern for executing an avenging attack:

1. Garner resources in secret.

2. Attack in secret.

3. Reveal yourself only when your target is utterly defeated and you are ready to go in for the kill because you want whoever it is to know that it was Khan who defeated you.

Also, if it was Khan;s “plan” to deprive Marcus of his “family” why the 7734 was Carol not one of the targets of the first attack? Or are we meant to believe that he couldn’t find her because she was already using her forged Starfleet identity?

The only way the initial events of the movie with regards to his plan would have made any sense to me as a Khan vengeance move is if the patient wasn’t a little girl, but Carol Marcus and Khan had made the deal in secret with Marcus’ wife to be the suicide bomber. Then I could buy that Carol lives because Khan has conflicting thoughts viewing her as one of his own. Also with his wife as the bomber, Khan saps Marcus of power as the spotlight of scrutiny falls on the Admiral.

161. Disinvited - January 20, 2014

#160. Disinvited – January 20, 2014

And not just one of Khan’s own but it would have made Carol the only “family” Khan believed he had left at the time of his attack.

162. Curious Cadet - January 20, 2014

@160 Disinvited,

I don’t discredit any of your theories. I have many alternate ways of looking at this myself, some of which have been angrily disputed by the usual peanut gallery around here over the last 8 months.

All I’m saying here, is that Orci goes to geat pains to explain Khan’s motivations on screen, including painting Kirk as the boy-genius by discovering the “trap” when no one else seemingly did (just like he discovered it in ST09, despite Pike having written his thesis on the Kelvin attack). All of Orci’s supporting characters are seemingly two-dimensional dolts who can’t anticipate one move ahead of themselves, at least in comparison to Kirk (which is presumably why Starfleet desperately needs him). Kirk then is no longer a genius figuring out the trap when no one else did if Khan DIDN’T blow up the Archives specifically to achieve this result, and the whole revelation is therefore wasted in the movie, because Kirk then has no idea what he’s talking about. I seriously doubt that’s what Orci meant for us to take away from that scene, just so he could save face and re-tell the story in an ancillary comic.

Also, you’re using the word “family” literally, even though it never is in the movie. The 72 crew in stasis are not Khan’s actual family. He states that “Marcus had killed everyone of the people I hold most dear. So I responded in kind.” This had nothing to do with Carol Marcus, per se, but destroying that which Marcus holds dear — presumably Section 31 and Starfleet. One has to wonder what Marcus would have done had he not been able to beam Carol off the bridge so easily. I kind of think he would have said: “you made this choice, Carol, not me … I’m sorry, fire!”. But Orci made sure we didn’t have to see Marcus as a bigger monster than Khan, and violated yet another long standing (for good reason) Star Trek rule by letting him beam her through the shields. In fact little has been made of this, but it’s yet another technology hole they have to plug to prevent repeated use of that device going forward.

163. Disinvited - January 20, 2014

#844. Curious Cadet – January 20, 2014

I agree with your assessment of what we are meant to believe.

However, I note it wouldn’t have been outside its 9/11 response allegory parameters to have Kirk be right for the wrong reason.

164. Disinvited - January 20, 2014

#844. Curious Cadet – January 20, 2014

In fact, I’m not entirely certain that isn’t the conclusion we are meant to reach, i.e. Kirk runs off guns half-cocked believing Khan is the problem but we are meant to come to understand that it’s really Marcus. Aren’t we?

I also recall that the moment it was clear Marcus intended for a whole starship complement of personnel to die to wake everyone up to what he regarded as the greater threat and cover his @55 was the moment that I started thinking the conference attack had its origins with the Admiral.

165. Disinvited - January 20, 2014

#844. Curious Cadet – January 20, 2014

“Also, you’re using the word “family” literally…” – Curious Cadet

Well, clearly not so in regards to my Carol and Khan alternate opening cure scenario in which I demonstrate I get its non-literalness. I’m just assuming Khan knew how dear she was to the Admiral BEFORE he beamed her off the Enterprise.

166. Curious Cadet - January 20, 2014

@164 Disinvited,

Dmduncan came up with the Marcus set up the whole thing way back in the beginning, and I was onboard with that idea until it started to unravel.

The main problem I ultimately had with it was that Marcus then outwits Khan, which I don’t think would have ever happened. That’s when I developed the Khan manipulated Marcus to do exactly what he wanted him to do plan, which also has problems to resolve.

But let’s say Kirk is meant to see a trap in order to blame Khan for the impending attack, even though it ultimately does him no good. Marcus holds the meeting per a ridiculous protocol in the first place, knowing full well Khan will attack gunning specifically for him, and then, without any assurance of his own safety allows the attack to go on indefinitely before finally beaming Khan to Kronos where he can send someone to kill him and start a war with the Klingons in the process?

So Khan destroys the archives to conceal that he had discovered who he really is and thus hide his plan to rescue his crew? So why no effort to make sure Harewood couldn’t tell anybody? Why no effort to conceal his identity from simple surveillance cameras? Is Khan that stupid? What power did he hold over Harewood to ensure he complied with the bombing instructions? Was his daughter and wife at risk of being killed by Khan if he didn’t go through with it? If so, how could he risk warning Marcus? Or did Harewood warn Marcus and Marcus replied telling him to go through with it and sacrifice himself? And then what, khan conspicuously stole the police ship and flew it to a top secret Section 31 location where the torpedoes were being stored and tried to follow through undetected with his plan in a stolen police vehicle? The pieces just don’t fit.

My Marcus theory was that he sent Khan on an assignment to target Harewood in the first place, setting Khan up for the fall. That would explain why Khan didn’t care if he was seen. He then had Khan attack the meeting specifically avoiding him, and targeting Pike to manipulate Kirk and Spock whom Marcus intended to use all along (thus demoting them). Only when Kirk showed up on Kronos did Khan realize he’d been had. It can all be made to work sloppily, but in the end it doesn’t work because it means Marcus was much smarter than Khan, which I don’t buy. And frankly, why go to all that trouble when they could have just picked up Khan after the blast, transwarped him to Kronos, and planted the evidence themselves. It also means that Khan has to completely lie about the story he tells Kirk and there doesn’t seem to be a motivation for it, when the truth about Marcus in that case is just as damning.

Now if Khan orchestrated the entire plan, that’s a different story. But as you say, why would Marcus be so stupid as to follow Starfleet protocols knowing who he was dealing with? Then again why would Marcus do anything he did with respect to Khan? When viewed in that light, it’s just insulting to Khan’s intellect to see it the other way around, meaning Marcus as mastermind.

167. Curious Cadet - January 20, 2014

@165. Disinvited,
“I’m just assuming Khan knew how dear she was to the Admiral BEFORE he beamed her off the Enterprise.”

Since you’re off into speculation land, I’ll say that perhaps Khan’s actual intent was to kill Carol in the blast at the Archive, indeed thought he had, but she uncharacteristically stopped for a Starbucks that morning; if for no other reason than Marcus had held his people hostage. Would a terrorist do any less?

On the one hand, people on this forum want to think Khan is so brilliant he could make anything happen, including retrofitting top secret torpedoes with the presumably closely guarded cryo tubes of his crew without anyone knowing about it until the very last minute, and hacking security systems to make his attack on Starfleet. Yet, considering Marcus took no precautions for his own safety or the safety of the others (Carol certainly gives no indication she ever thought she was in danger), at least none that Khan could not easily hack; there is then seemingly no rationale that Khan would not have known about Carol, nor have gone gunning for her first. That or doing so would possibly deprive him of being able to kill Marcus which was his primary goal. Khan has always been a master manipulator. Is it any surprise that he twists actual events into a context that best serves him? He specifically draws the analogy to family with Kirk, something someone as bright as Khan surely knows is important to the fleets youngest and most controversial captain.

I feel all of this is you still trying to shoehorn in the discovery of Khan’s crew in the torpedoes and thus Marcus only then realizing Khan got his memory back between the unrelated blast at the archives and 8 hours later when he attacks the meeting. Is it possible it happened the way you suggest? Sure. But it doesn’t make sense with everything else depicted in the movie.

168. Disinvited - January 20, 2014

#166. Curious Cadet – January 20, 2014

I like the way you pull it all together. But I think you are unfairly being dismissive of Marcus outsmarting Khan. One thing STID makes abundantly clear is that we are meant to see Marcus as a greater threat over that of Khan. For that to be, it is only logical that Marcus to be capable of outwitting Khan. I mean, for a while he did. The Admiral had Khan build him the biggest baddest most efficient fighting machine ship ever seen in the likes of Trek.

I think we “old” fans don’t like to see what we assess to be a diminution of the Trek iconic character Khan. But, STID already did that in a lot of other ways, so “In for a pound; in for a dollar” and I buy Robocop outsmarting Sherlock.

169. Disinvited - January 20, 2014

#167. Curious Cadet – January 20, 2014

Eh, you could be right about my shoehorning, but I think I learned to do that from STID itself. At least, it sure feels like it in spots.

170. Curious Cadet - January 20, 2014

@168. Disinvited,
“One thing STID makes abundantly clear is that we are meant to see Marcus as a greater threat over that of Khan. For that to be, it is only logical that Marcus to be capable of outwitting Khan. I mean, for a while he did.”

This is why STID is kind of a narrative mess. Certainly Khan tells us with so many weepy crocodile tears that big bad, genetcially inferior Marcus outsmarted him. Is it true? Who knows. Regardless, what makes Marcus a greater THREAT than Khan is that he holds the highest position of power in the Federation, and abuses his position by acting seemingly above the law and thus the will of the people he serves, conspiratorially pursuing his own agenda; and worse suffering under the delusion he is doing the right thing. Orci wants us to look at ourselves with Marcus and see the danger that lurks beneath the veneer of our system of government. Khan is obviously dangerous, Marcus is not so apparent.

But does Marcus have to be smarter than Khan? Not necessarily, at least not to get Khan to build the ship and the numerous other things he did. That was accomplished with a memory wipe, and re-education, we are now told. But how smart could Marcus ultimately be if he knew the day was coming that Khan would regain his memory, yet he wasn’t monitoring Khan 24 hours a day. And how dumb did he have to be to allow someone with the engineering and computer expertise Khan had, any opportunity to find and access his men in cryo tubes without Marcus getting wind of it? I guess that all depends at what point Marcus caught Khan. The one thing I do know is Khan seems to know what Marcus’ every move is once on board the Enterprise. Seems like someone with that much insight into the man might have a leg up on him. And one parting thought: Marcus really didn’t know that Khan could not be incapacitated with a single phaser stun?

Next month Orci will presumably finally tell us how smart Marcus was when we get the explanation of how Khan smuggled his crew into the torpedoes, how he planned to escape, and presumably the sequence of events that led to his transwarp beaming to Kronos. We can see then if it’s any more satisfying an explanation than what we’ve been coming up with here.

171. Yanks - January 23, 2014

Wow, this one looks interesting.

Thanks for sharing.

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