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Orci Talks Bringing In More Star Trek Canon + Relationship With JJ July 13, 2014

by Matt Wright , Filed under: ST: Into Darkness Sequel , trackback

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According to Roberto Orci he and his co-writers are in the middle of writing the script for the next Star Trek film, they are looking to focus on new unexplored territory, and less on any specific canon callbacks. More details below.

In a new interview with IGN, Orci chatted about using characters and races from the wider Trek canon.

On having known characters, aliens, races, in the next movie:

I think our instinct right now is to go into more uncharted territory. But again, we’re still in the middle of writing it. If the best idea is when, suddenly, it seems like the best thing ever to do, is to have the Andorians running around, doing something cool, that’s what it’ll be.

On his current mentor type relationship with J.J. Abrams:

J.J. is more than a colleague for me, he is someone who I’ve learned a lot from, just watching the trajectory of his decisions, his career. He’s been so generous with his time with me in terms of being willing to answer any questions that I have about anything. Alex [Kurtzman] and I, he’s always been like an older brother for us. He’s been like our business mentor/older brother. He’s one of the people I’ve been relying on going forward. I do feel comfortable enough, when I have a question about anything in this business, I feel like I can call him, and he’ll give me some pretty good advice.

 

Comments

1. Ahmed - July 13, 2014

From the article

=========================
Complete With Khan?:

As to a potential villain in the film, Khan is technically still out there, so there is a possibility that he could make a return appearance.

“I think what our discussions are about finding a thing we can discover for ourselves,” Orci said, again emphasizing a desire to venture into their own territory. “Then if it turns out that something from canon somehow fits that bill, or it somehow turns out that we’ve reinvented the wheel without even knowing it, like, ‘Oh! We went through all this trouble to create a situation, and it turns out it’s the exact situation that happened in whatever episode.’ But first we don’t attach any names to the structure. We don’t want anyone to feel like they have to have seen the previous movies. It has to be a movie that stands on its own, that stands alone. So we’re hesitant to rely on any love of the series or love of previous stuff.”

When asked if he felt complete with the Khan storyline, Orci slowly repeated, “Do I feel complete?” followed by a very lengthy pause after which he finally laughingly replied, “I can’t answer that.”

======================

Why would anyone want to see Khan again ?

2. Harry Ballz - July 13, 2014

Using Khan again would only prove that the writers are totally bereft of imagination.

3. Fuba Mushu - July 13, 2014

#2 The evidence of this bereftness is bountiful.

4. Stephan - July 13, 2014

Germany is Weltmeister!!!

Whoohooo!

Sorry for being off topic. ;-)

5. scotchyscotchscotch - July 13, 2014

The Khan gag actually grew on me from this perspective: I like the idea that no matter how the timeline unfolds, certain people are destined to bump into each other no matter how big the universe is.

Execution aside I enjoy that high level concept.

That said, I would love to see “uncharted territory”

6. CmdrR - July 13, 2014

Make it a good, original story.
Hands out of the TOS cookie jar.

7. richpit - July 13, 2014

I also think that it’s time for them to not use TOS as a crutch and keep going to characters and storylines from there.

If you are, indeed, a “writer”, one would assume that you have some talent for “writing”. And by “writing”, I don’t mean the physical act of putting pencil to paper. Any 4th grader can do that. I mean coming up with creative stories that people want to watch unfold.

Technically, it’s enough of a “crutch” that they don’t have to invent their own main characters. All they have to do is write good stories for those characters to be in.

8. Harry Ballz - July 13, 2014

Sheesh, look at Bob Orci in the photo at the top of this thread.

You’d think Bob and Wil Wheaton had been separated at birth!

9. c - July 13, 2014

Next ST, stick your hand in the Avatar jar…Rob…for ideas and every other movie that has ever been-simple logic…make your life easier.

Just add Enterprise and 0uterspace and you can’t lose, my opinion.

C.

10. Pizza - July 13, 2014

What I would give to have Ronald Moore write the movie.

Unfortunately, meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

11. Legate Damar - July 13, 2014

They should put Borg and/or Cardassians in the new movie. I know neither of those are from TOS, but they are the coolest aliens that haven’t been used already.

12. Finnigan - July 13, 2014

Get the Enterprise far from Earth. Make this a movie about the going boldly and stop making a Michael Bay action flick. Loss the moronic vengeful villain plot device. Give us a story about Kirk truly being in command of the Enterprise far from home and far from Starfleet Command. Showcase what the crew and the Big E can do under difficult circumstances. I would have no problem with introducing a new race of aliens, but make it compelling, interesting, and present a challenge to the Captain and crew that takes us on the mission.

Start the 5 year mission with a good script that avoids the nonsense of cheap plot devices and stop using the alternate universe as an excuse.

Make this one better than Star Trek into Disappointment. Make this next one a real adventure without the flash, the over-hyped action, and, once again, have Kirk command!

13. harley3k - July 13, 2014

The altered timeline gives us a new Enterprise (different design), red matter, inter-planetary beaming, Spock’s ship and computer data, etc. Plenty of plot devices to end up in completely different part of the galaxy and encounter new races of aliens.

Also destroying vulcan surely scrambled the timeline sending off-world vulcans into new futures. Tons of ways to make it completely new and never touch canon or even refer to it.

And none of the bringing back Shatner nonsense – Each new version of trek paid homage to the prior in one film or episode, and having prime Spock in 2009 was enough homage.

Now if you want to bring back TAKEI, then forget what I just said, because that would be trekmazing.

TAKEI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

14. Ahmed - July 13, 2014

ST 13 taglines:

KHAN IS BACK!

Or

KHAN: “I’ll be baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack”

15. Cygnus-X1 - July 13, 2014

Maybe it’ll be ST3: Indestructokhan vs. Q.

Who will win?

Q can do anything, but Khan can’t be killed.

Maybe “God” from STV breaks the stalemate.

16. Commodore Adams - July 13, 2014

One thing I am hoping for with the deep space exploration and discovering something for themselves is…..how do I put this accurately…..I am hoping its a revolutionary find, something that may change our perspective on something. What I mean by that is V’Ger. TMP may be been dull and lacklustre to some people but think of the essence of that movie. Would we have ever thought that one of our probes could amass a type of consciousness that would require a melding with its creator to achieve its final objective leading to a new consciousness, a new level of existence? The Voyager probe evolving with advanced alien tech and the melding of it with Decker was a type of story that the other Star Trek movies did not achieve in my opinion. On a basic level it was a melding of organic and inorganic beyond the Borg, it was atypical. Peel back the surface and it was something much more.

THOSE are the best movies, THOSE are the best episodes. Not just plodding along and discovering a new species to observe, a new planet survey, a new nebula to scan, a new foe fight but something truly thought provoking and transcending. V’Ger for 1979 was like nothing else. Can we please have something like that. Are we desensitized? Are we beyond our infancy for such storytelling?

Star Trek The Motion Picture was something more than good vs bad, righteous vs evil. Say what you want about TMP but that story was truly Star Trek. It may have been a remake of “The Changeling” but it was much more. Just like the vastness and transcending nature of 2001: A Space Odyssey in 1968. When I first saw that movie only a few years ago, I though it was crazy (good). I can only imagine what people though about it in 1968, the way they felt when watching it. Same with TMP in 79. That is what I want in a Star Trek movie. In my opinion its not the new Star Trek movies that suffer from that lack of grandness, it all started with Generation in 94.

I was hopeful when JD said that its thought provoking in the sense that we’re not sure what side we might come down on, is it right, is it wrong sort of thing. Then again that could be said about Khan and Into Darkness. Was the father correct in what he did to save his child’s life. I hope JD is talking about something that is in a higher echelon than that.

I know the writers and directors can only go so far, I know its hard to come up with an idea and story that is like nothing else, alas influence is far too encompassing these days. They have to write for what is popular and making money. The first two films suffered from Michael Bay syndrome, shoving stuff in for the sake of shoving stuff in. There were almost too many nods which did not feel organic. You have the obvious things (ship, uniforms, tech, characters with their personalities and interactions). Everything else has to be carefully applied without feeling like Michael Bay force-feeding a goose for a fat money bag liver movie. Where the is the originality. Let’s just say I’m excited and scared for the new Ninja Turtles movie. 10 years ago I never had that problem, movies were still original, now its reboot reboot reboot. Movies started to change when the massive (yet still timeless, just watched it the other day and it did not seem dated) Gladiator was released in 2000. The problem with my generation (30-50 year olds) are the people remaking all these franchises we watched and loved as kids. We want to see it again, we want it reborn, we want to share it with our children, but in my opinion its causing original storytelling to suffer. Its like when big record labels kept pumping out the same old music, garbage we were supposed to listen to and the indie record label scene had to come along and break the iron curtain. There is also a huge surge in indie video game developers which will only be good for the video game industry because A: indie developers have recently put out some of the strongest, richest, most defining games. And B: it forces the large developers to take another look at the status quo and the way things are done. Indie developers are forcing large companies to challenge themselves rather than remain stagnant. The film industry is currently in the stage that will demands better quality due to reboot after reboot and the rise of indie film which tend to have much richer, rewarding and satisfying storytelling. Hollywood, get your money’s worth now because the reboot wave wont last forever.

As Spock said “there are always…possibilities.” It must be possible to do the big summer popcorn blockbuster that Paramount wants based on popular demand and trends set by youth with the moral essence that Star Trek has always had but seems to be devoid of. Don’t just cater to low brow youth.

Star Trek 2009 and 2013:
- Did they feel like Star Trek? Yes. Why? because the familiars were there (the ship, the characters, the uniform, the technology, etc)

- Was the essence there? No (spewing prime directive is not the morality Star Trek’s deserves and demands.)

Star Trek is a sage, and should be treated it as such.

Im not bashing, i’m not angry, I like the new movies, they sit on my shelf with my other Star Trek blu-ray’s. Im just trying to express what I feel is missing and what I feel the issues are. How it should be done, I would have to seriously sit and brainstorm about it.

17. c - July 13, 2014

Combine Ben-hur and Jurassic Park with ET and Jaws plus a dash of Transformers and you got yourself a movie.

For the next one a little of The Ten Commandments , a bit of The Motion Picture-ST, some of Return of the King and a lot of The Gage-episode..

18. Ahmed - July 13, 2014

My expectations went below subspace after reading these recent interviews.

Are they really incapable of coming up with something original that they are thinking about using Khan again, or take elements from TNG ?

Maybe they should take a week off & read books by Alastair Reynolds, Stephen Baxter, Peter F. Hamilton, Iain Banks, Vernor Vinge, David Brin & others to get a sense of how to write an epic science fiction story.

19. Ahmed - July 13, 2014

@16. Commodore Adams

Well said.

20. Jason - July 13, 2014

I think they should have Capt Picard travel to the JJ verse to retrieve spock prime and restore the timeline.

21. Emperor Mike of the Terran Empire - July 14, 2014

All I ask is a Tall Ship and a Star to lead he By!.

22. Dr C - July 14, 2014

@16 Commodore Adams.

I generally agree with your points here. I also like TMP (despite its slow pace in places).

I recently watched ‘The Apple’ – I loved seeing Kirk, Spock, and Bones wrestle with the moral choice to violate the prime directive and help the people of Vaal. That discussion seemed to have happened just *before* STID started. There were only brief discussions of whether or not following Marcus’ orders in STID were right or not (Scotty mentioned it I think, and Spock did too if I remember right). Perhaps Kirk has learned something from his interference on Naboo and decides this time to let someone/a race die because the PD says not to interfere?

I’m hoping that these seemingly fundamentally ‘Star Trek’ elements will filter in to the next film. I’m also hoping that it doesn’t signal the end of this series of films. Nobody wants to see ‘Star Trek Into Oblivion’

23. Antonio - July 14, 2014

#1

I would love to see Khan only when they start remaking TNG.

Picard VS Khan, who wouldn’t want to see that?

24. IDIC Lives! - July 14, 2014

#16 Commodore Adams

Very well said.

25. Stephan - July 14, 2014

18. Ahmed

Didn’t Bob say exactly that? He said he wants ” to go into more uncharted territory.”
So nothing about Khan or TNG.

26. Jonboc - July 14, 2014

24 “Didn’t Bob say exactly that? He said he wants ” to go into more uncharted territory.”

He did. But that does nothing to feed the haters. Ahmed will scour the web to try and find sound bites that will contradict anything new that might be percieved as possitive and, in turn, feed his discontent. It’s just how he rolls.

27. Alex - July 14, 2014

Well they’ve introduced the Klingons. Probably wouldn’t be a bad idea to have a story focused on them.

28. Chris Roberts - July 14, 2014

I was excited about the headline, until I read the quotes and discovered it’s more of a maybe not.

To celebrate the 50th Anniversary, I wouldn’t be able to resist going canon influences to the max.

29. Andreas - July 14, 2014

sorry, my englishe is a little carzy.

please do not bring back mr khan, let us please have new and originals story, that will give us star trek fans a new kind of excite!

30. Disinvited - July 14, 2014

BOMAD: I am BOMAD. I am complete. My function is clear: STERILIZE PERFECTIONS! STERILIZE PERFECTIONS. STERILIZE! STERILIZE!…

TreKirks: BOMAD! You are in communication with the unit JJ! STOP! STOP!

31. TUP - July 14, 2014

Good lord.

Wasnt the point of the “new universe” to unconstrain themselves from Canon? And yet they are so obsessed with it, Orci has to specify his intent to try and move away from it.

Also, if he thinks the first two films were designed for people who didnt have to have knowledge of Star Trek, he’s crazy. Both films were so convoluted it was ridiculous. Why is it, other movie franchises and TV shows embrace the idea of continuity and episodic story telling and yet its such a dirty thought with Star Trek. it really does seem like these people think the Trek fans will watch anything and they have to trick the mainstream into seeing a movie that just happens to be Star Trek.

32. TrekRules - July 14, 2014

Legate Damar , that is probably what they will do which is such a waste. Instead of taking this opportunity to do something unique, they waste it by using villians we already know. Look at the comic this guy oversees – his crew meets Q. I wouldn’t be surprised if a TNG villian appears here. But good thing we have 3 true Trek fans writing this and not all the non Trek fans who complain about how crappy the last 2 films were ;)

33. Ahmed - July 14, 2014

@24. Stephan & 25. Jonboc

Do me a favor & read the actual interview over at IGN:

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2014/07/13/star-trek-3-roberto-orci-on-the-possibility-of-andorians-or-q-and-taking-over-for-jj-abrams

If you two bothered to read the interview or the quote at #1, you will see for yourself that Bob did talk about Khan & “elements” from TNG.

This unconditional support will do nothing good for the movie. Instead of acting as yes men, read the bloody interview first & then comment on it.

34. Ahmed - July 14, 2014

The other parts in the interview

==========================

Might We See Specific Next Generation Elements in Star Trek 3?:

Star Trek clearly has a rich canon to draw from, and the first two Abrams’ Star Trek films certainly mined from it. When asked if they would expand even further in the upcoming film, possibly drawing upon additional elements specifically introduced in the other shows, Orci said, “I think our instinct right now is to go into more uncharted territory. But again, we’re still in the middle of writing it.”

Adding, “If the best idea is when, suddenly, it seems like the best thing ever to do, is to have the Andorians running around, doing something cool, that’s what it’ll be.”

When we – somewhat – jokingly suggested that they might include Q, Orci said, “Sure, or Q.” When asked if he’d go that far, Orci replied evasively, “I love Q! C’mon, who doesn’t love Q?”

Complete With Khan?:

As to a potential villain in the film, Khan is technically still out there, so there is a possibility that he could make a return appearance.

“I think what our discussions are about finding a thing we can discover for ourselves,” Orci said, again emphasizing a desire to venture into their own territory. “Then if it turns out that something from canon somehow fits that bill, or it somehow turns out that we’ve reinvented the wheel without even knowing it, like, ‘Oh! We went through all this trouble to create a situation, and it turns out it’s the exact situation that happened in whatever episode.’ But first we don’t attach any names to the structure. We don’t want anyone to feel like they have to have seen the previous movies. It has to be a movie that stands on its own, that stands alone. So we’re hesitant to rely on any love of the series or love of previous stuff.”

When asked if he felt complete with the Khan storyline, Orci slowly repeated, “Do I feel complete?” followed by a very lengthy pause after which he finally laughingly replied, “I can’t answer that.”

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2014/07/13/star-trek-3-roberto-orci-on-the-possibility-of-andorians-or-q-and-taking-over-for-jj-abrams

35. Nemesis4909 - July 14, 2014

They’re still in the middle of writing it? I dunno about you guys but whenever I write a story or script then I start with a plan, a structure to adhere to that makes the writing easier. Do these jokers not do that?

Right enough, Into Dumbness stunk of something that was being made up as it went along so that wouldn’t surprise me. Adding things into your story as you’re going along rarely leads to a satisfying conclusion, it’s a core rule in storytelling.

Why is Star Trek in the hands of these incompetents? At least he’s off Amazing Spider-Man 3, only one franchise I love to ruin now Bob. This interview has done nothing but discourage me even further.

36. Nemesis4909 - July 14, 2014

Another thing:

“You know, we started at childhood and we met their parents, and we see that Kirk was born on Earth.”

No we don’t, we see that Kirk was born on the USS Kelvin but hey, how can we expect Orci to remember…that film he wrote?

Also, he seems to have all but confirmed that Khan is coming back. Incredible, just incredible.

37. TUP - July 14, 2014

I dont think we will see Khan. it was a failed concept.

I think Orci’s remark was not being evasive about using Khan, it was being evasive about how he likely agrees that STID sucked.

38. Mad Mann - July 14, 2014

@37 TUP

Yeah, I agree. After listening to Orci actually talk about the usage of Khan in STID, I have a strong feeling that he was very much against it. It was to the point that he tried to shoe-horn Khan in to the script, but just couldn’t make it work., even though it was shot that way.

The inclusion of Khan was the biggest mistake of STID, even worse than all the science faux pas.

I don’t think we need to worry about Khan in the 3rd one. He will stay frozen in the cryo-tubes for quite some time.

That said, I’m beginning to worry about some of his comments about using a previous episode as the basis for the next movie. While I think it’d be cool to see Andorians and Tellarites running around, I do want to see some new stuff. The doomsday machine? Ehh, been there and done that perfectly already. Space amoeba? Please no. The Borg? Keep them in 1990s Trek only. A borgified Andorian controlling a giant space amoeba that killed Captain Decker? With Cyrano Jones and Harry Mudd selling the pieces? Yes. I mean, NO!

39. Oscar - July 14, 2014

Abrams Kult again…ugh..
No matter what Mr Copyator intends to do, that will be a botched job because he has not any talent…
Without Abrams Orci is nothing.
Movigoers are not interested in a trek film directed by Roberto who and with a couple of John Doe writers…
They need remember this is an Abrams production , because Abrams’ name sells ticket…not Orci’s name or Gijoe trek…
But Abrams is only producer in name…
That’ s cold truth

40. Elias Javalis - July 14, 2014

One thing i am certain about…
Star Trek 3 will be more Fan Friendly, i just hope they do not lose Perspective as they did on Star Trek : Insurrection and Nemesis.
As much as i love TNG these Movies were Awful!

41. shockwave - July 14, 2014

The 3rd movie should end with camera panning across space to show V’Ger, and use Goldsmith’s V’Ger’s theme.

42. Danpaine - July 14, 2014

If that supposed “Khan” shows up in the next film, I’m simply waiting for it to come out for rental, no trip to the movies for more of that mess.

Fool me once, shame on you….

43. somethoughts - July 14, 2014

#39

Insurrection LOL the whipping boy of how not to make a movie, good star trek theme and ok story but it was just a average TNG made for tv straight to dvd episode.

I have enjoyed both 2009 and STID just personal opinion and anyone is allowed to agree or disagree. Looking forward to your sci fi space exploration adventure bob, lots of mysteries, anomalies, monoliths and homicidal ships etc

44. Trekbillly - July 14, 2014

No Earth. Something new!!

45. Stephan - July 14, 2014

34. Ahmed – July 14, 2014

Ok, I have read the whole interview now. And I still don’t get your point. He says he might use “elements” of TNG. Where is the problem? Can’t he use some elements and still have a completely new story? I mean I hope he uses some elements because it has to feel like Star Trek. Otherwise it could be an original SciFi movie without “Star Trek” in its title.
I don’t understand what he says as recycling old material.

46. TUP - July 14, 2014

They have the formula for including a TV episode story – the pre-credit scene.

But again, unless they are jumping ahead several years, the timing doesnt work out. So instead of a 34 year old Kirk on a 5 year mission, its going to be a 27 year old Kirk on a 5 year mission?

47. Jonboc - July 14, 2014

#18 “My expectations went below subspace after reading these recent interviews.

Are they really incapable of coming up with something original that they are thinking about using Khan again, or take elements from TNG ?”

I did read the interview. Like I said…the writers going into “uncharted territory” does nothing to serve your dissatisfaction with the writers. So you skip it and imply that Orci’s initial response is completely negated by the prodding of the interviewer, who prompts him to agree that, sure, other elements could be used if it felt right. And after MORE coaxing from the interviewer, he agrees that even Q could be used…if it felt right. Those are very safe answers for a writer who, obviously, isn’t going to paint himself into a corner with restrictions and predictions.
I tend to lean more towards his first statement, of exploring uncharted territory, as being indicative of what to really expect…you, on the other hand, dismiss it and focus solely on the unlikely possibilities that feed your negative biases.

48. Phil - July 14, 2014

As always, Mr. Orci frames his answers very, very……very carefully. Not even sure why an interviewer would even bother to ask questions specific to a project…

Interviewer: Mr. Orci, you’ve mentioned having a willingness to embrace canon. Will see see Khan again in the upcoming movie.
RC: Why, yes, I do like hot dogs. Seasoned with curry.

49. Oscar - July 14, 2014

It is Paramount, they only want a transformers formula movie to make easy money with easy public…
Orcy is its man for this mission…

Khan again? Beh, sure, you now , he is very intolerant. « You do not like STID? You do not like my Khan, bunch of m..ns? Ok. TWICE…
He thinks ST is his toy and his means of vendetta versus people who said STID was supercrap…

He despises Trek Unions …hardcore fans…He only wants cheer leaders…

50. Phil - July 14, 2014

What the hell are you talking about, Oscar? A vendetta?? Are you insane?

You must have loved Rick Berman….

51. Chris Roberts - July 14, 2014

Fitting BC’s Khan is precisely one scene revision removed from canon. That’s all it is and I’m ecstatically happy to accept him.

It could almost be done, while the third film is being made and dropped into future edit of STID.

52. Admiral_Bumblebee - July 14, 2014

I fear that we will get a run-of-the-mill story. Something out of an episode of one of the TV series. Something without any impact. Something that is not epic. But this is the 50th anniversary of Trek and this needs to be EPIC. I for one don’t want a TV-series episode on the big screen. I want something that blows me away, something never before seen in Trek. Something worthy of the anniversary.
And yes, I think that this would mean bringing back Shatner, Nimoy, Stewart and some others in meaningful roles for one EPIC adventure.

53. somethoughts - July 14, 2014

Khan wakes up and sees the borg oh ya resistance is futile…best of both worlds cliff hanger music dannn dannn dan dannn dann dannn dannn dannnnnnnn to be continued…in the 😮fall you know the scene where Riker says fire!!! using modified deflector dish on locutus borg cube lol

54. somethoughts - July 14, 2014

#52

something like xmen days of future past, borg is winning and picard uses troi to send his picards mind back into the past to warn kirk and spock of something they did that allowed the borg to win

55. TUP - July 14, 2014

The problem with no Trek on TV is that we all have our favourite elements that we want to see given a modern thoughtful rendering. I love the Borg too. Would love to see them. But probably not for the movie. it would feel too “been there done that”. I could certainly see the studio pitching the idea though. in fact we’re probably lucky we didnt get Khan leading the Borg in STID. But if they did use the Borg, Spock Prime is still running around with knowledge. And Marcus’ deep space scanning to locate the Botony Bay might have triggered some interest…

Admiral Bumblebee is correct through – doing a movie for the 50th Anniversary and NOT making it a generations-spanning epic is just shortsighted and stupid. But because Orci and co. screwed up STID, Im afradi we’re going to get the “original” story some have wanted – a story that means nothing to the franchise.

Oh and when Shatner and the others pass on, Im sure guys like orci will talk about how much they loved them and wished they could have worked together. Well…you can.

56. Ahmed - July 14, 2014

@47. Jonboc

So, you take what you like from the interview & make it the main point while ignoring the other stuff under the pretense that it is very unlikely?

And this is not the first time someone bring up the idea of using Khan again.

==================
As for the possibility that John Harrison (Benedict Cumberbatch) will return in a future Star Trek movie, Lindelof said: “To answer that question would be to determine whether or not he actually survives this movie, but if he survives this movie, I think that we would be incredibly stupid to not use him again.”

http://screenrant.com/star-trek-3-movie-villains-story/

==================
The uncharted territory part is interesting for sure but if they are going to use stuff from TNG or bring Khan again, then it will make no difference if they are deep in the space or around our solar system.

57. Ahmed - July 14, 2014

@45. Stephan

“He says he might use “elements” of TNG. Where is the problem? ”

None whatsoever!

58. Stephan - July 14, 2014

57. Ahmed – July 14, 2014

“None whatsoever!”

Soo… what was your point?

59. Buzz Cagney - July 14, 2014

If Khan was an afterthought why did they initially go after every Hispanic actor currently in Hollywood?
Their toing and froing on this central element of the movie, and a total lack of a clear focus, are why they ended up with the movie being way short of what it could, and what we all hoped, it should have been.
Lets hope for some clearer thinking on the next one.

60. Ahmed - July 14, 2014

@58. Stephan

I was being sarcastic.

They rebooted the franchises to free themselves from Trek canon but time & again, they go back to it to use old ideas!

Anyway, they are more than welcome to use elements from TNG, DS9, VOY & ENT.

61. stephan - July 14, 2014

60. Ahmed

“Anyway, they are more than welcome to use elements from TNG, DS9, VOY & ENT.”

Are you being sarcastic again?

They never said they wanted to free themselves from every bit of canon. When Q or the cardassians appear would that mean they are following every single bit of canon? They could tell different stories than TOS told that’s why the reboot. But IMHO they have to reuse some elements of former trek series so it could still be called Star Trek.

62. TUP - July 14, 2014

They did say they wanted to free themselves from canon. I have no issue with that to a degree. Initially, they seemed in a perfect spot to show us a new re-imagined take on the TOS cast’s early years and how they came to be while touching on certain canonical things, such as Pike, such as Chapel etc. Things that done directly impact the main plot (Well Pike does but he was about the only thing these writers did well until they killed him in a crappy meaningless death).

The fact they keep leaning on Canon is bad enough but they keep involing canon and changing it. Either make it a fresh perspective from the beginning or respect canon. Dont take it and change it to just for the sake of change.

Also, Orci’s remarks about Khan seem to confirm speculation that Lindelof was the chief idiot on STID. His comments about being stupid not to use Khan again show how little he understands what he did. 99% of me doesnt want to hear the word “Khan” uttered again and 1% of me only wants it if they fix STID and reveal that BC was NOT Khan.

63. Commodore Adams - July 14, 2014

With regards to my post #16. I made the same exact post on IGN with regards to this article. Two responses to my comment furthered how I feel and what I am trying to explain with what I want in a Trek movie and what is missing. Here they are verbatim.

houli1975 –

Thank you for writing this.

I think one thing that’s of note with The Motion Picture, is that, not only did it feel like a “true” episode of Star Trek, but that they actually hired a renown science fiction author, Isaac Asimov, as a consultant.

And some of the best episodes of the original series were written by renown science fiction authors, like Harlan Ellison, Theodore Sturgeon, Robert Bloch, and Richard Matheson.

I wish the new Trek filmmakers would bring in some contemporary science fiction authors to help them with these new films, guys like Gene Wolfe, Ursula LeGuin, Kim Robinson, Michael Moorcock, Tim Powers, or Dan Simmons, seem like they could craft one hell of a Star Trek story.”

The second reply

HubbleFunk -

“Completely agree, im hoping for a plot in the vein of V’ger. Some great mystery that perhaps relates to our quest to understand the universe. More science fiction, less explosions.”

“A plot in the vein of V’ger. Some great mystery that perhaps relates to our quest to understand the universe.” Short and to the point.

64. Commodore Adams - July 14, 2014

@ 19. Ahmed
@ 22. Dr C
@ 24. IDIC Lives!

I am humbled, thank you for your praise. I am glad you are all agree and that there are those out there who understand how I perceive TMP. I sat for about an hour trying to phrase and edit my thoughts. I simply tried to accurately phrase how I was feeling about the current state of Star Trek and what is missing without the mindless bashing and complaining that tends to ooze of us who are ruffled by the lack of the sage grandeur.

TMP may have been slow but it was that vast, life altering perception of a unimaginable discovery that made TMP one of my favourites. Its a magnificence and splendour that I hope Star Trek can one day rekindled.

65. Craiger - July 14, 2014

I can see it now they awake Khan again because of the Klingon threat. Then Khan turns on Starfleet and tries to do a war with the Klingons. Almost makes me think Trek is dead and can’t even come back on TV. However I do like Orci’s Hawaii 5-0. I think he is also doing that Scorpion TV series on CBS. Could Orci be better at TV than film?

66. IDIC Lives! - July 14, 2014

Commodore Adams, I agree! I remember being at the first showing of TMP in San Diego with my best friend. She is still my best friend all these years later. I was in my Command Gold and she was in her Science Blue, black pants, black boots – yep, crazy as hell.

We had campaigned for so many years, we had written fan fic to keep Trek alive, she had put on fan conventions (the fun early kind), we had waited so long– the prelude music began in the darkened theater (that mystical, beautiful prelude to TMP)–and it began!.

When it was over, we hid in the theater bathroom and went to the next showing too.

We loved TMP!! But as time went along, and our friendship hit some bumps too, we liked it less and less. (However, we are as close as we ever were these days).

However, I (at least – not sure she does) now love it again for all its too-long V’ger meanderings and also the characters are held in check too much by a non-understanding director BUT– I love it.

I became a professional science speculation writer and futurist because of Star Trek, I’ve made my living that way for over 30 years. I recently wrote an article on the possibility that humankind and computers will be joined in singularity around 2045 (if TIME magazine guessed at the right year).

And as I wrote the pro’s and con’s of The Singularity, I remembered that Gene Roddenberry wrote in the novel of TMP, that Captain Decker was part of the trans-humanist movement whereas Kirk was a dinosaur individualist.

TMP tried to deal with the “machine planet” (advanced technology, Ilea probe) melding with humankind (Decker) to form a new being. As McCoy said, “We are witnessing the birth of a new species.”

In this way, GR predicted what we will soon face. He was not all-against trans-humanism (as the Borg episodes might indicate), he was for the prospect of humankind no longer waging war on itself, no longer brutal to
itself and its planet. But of course almost no one understood his message.

But today, I write professionally on this coming probability- trans-humanism.

I think any group is foolish not to give a few moments to listen to its elders. Star Trek is about so much more than nu-Trek has dreamed of– it is a shame we must do combat constantly. I like nu-Trek “ok” – or I did when I first saw it.

I have, however, worked so hard to explain what is missing and what needs better treatment and how the characters are not the Star Trek crew. I did not start out to be angry or combative. I started out to offer what I have experienced thanks to Trek, and to share the Trek vision which is more – well – intelligent –than STID. I thought I/we offered enrichment for a better nuTrek to come.

Anyway, nice to read your thoughts, Commodore!

67. IDIC Lives! - July 14, 2014

#62 TUP

To paraphrase Kirk as he gazed at V’ger, “To fix all that is unfixable…”

To fix STID by having Cumberbatch not be Khan….a brave thought.

But I fear that what is unfixable cannot be fixed :-)

68. The Keeper - July 14, 2014

Ladies and gentleman and newbies fans to this Star Trek Crap feast…expect more Khan, Klingon’s and Tribble references…in a nut shell, nothing new but the same old tired story lines with a huge F-U to fans and non fans alike.

And Paramount actually pays these guys!!!!

Unfraggin believable.

69. The Keeper - July 14, 2014

Ladies and gentleman and newbies fans to this Star Trek Crap feast…expect more Khan, Klingon’s and Tribble references…in a nut shell, nothing new but the same old tired story lines with a huge F-U to fans and non fans alike.

And Paramount actually pays these guys!!!!

Unfraggin believable.

70. Jack - July 14, 2014

I’m hoping for new and no TNG — no Q, no Borg, no Cardassians. Look at how TAS built upon TOS but gave us new adventures, new worlds, new species and clever takes on existing concepts…

No more remakes.

71. Jack - July 14, 2014

“And yes, I think that this would mean bringing back Shatner, Nimoy, Stewart and some others in meaningful roles for one EPIC adventure.”

Sigh. No more of this please. Orci gets these ideas because fans and media folks with limited imaginations keep bringing up this stuff, like Q and Khan and Borg.

You can see all the original actors from every series at every bloody convention.

At this rate, the next one will have V’Ger, whales, Whoopi Goldberg, Q, the Genesis Device, Kirstie Alley, the Borg Queen, Harry Mudd, Brent Spiner, Sybok, Leah Brahms, the cast of Phase II, Joan Collins as Edith Keeler, Landru, Gary Mitchell, Robert Picardo, the Kazon nistrim, trill, Talosians, the Prophets, Nero, T’Pring, Finnegan, both Deckers, Samuel Cogley, the ba’ku, Michael Dorn, Tim Russ, Garrett Wang and goddamned midichlorians.

72. c - July 14, 2014

STID did not sucked, it was just not what most of us expected, but it was good, not wow, just ok, you know good-but…

2009 was wow and a bit stupid at the same time, but it was wow.

next will be wow and wow and wow, but the next after that 2020 will be wow, wow and ah-what?

so sit back and enjoy reality…in the movie making business.

Garth is the answer or the fight between two captains.

73. Ahmed - July 14, 2014

@72. c

WOW!

74. Harry Ballz - July 14, 2014

@72

Q: what does it spell when you paint a big “W” on each butt cheek of a naked person and then ask them to bend over?

A: WOW

75. Platitude - July 14, 2014

I’d love to see an Andorian in the movie. Can it be Shran? Do Andorians live a long time? I don’t know. I want to see Shran in this movie.

76. Red Dead Ryan - July 14, 2014

So much nonsense on this board….Ahmed deliberately distorting Bob’s statements to suit his anti-nuTrek propaganda. Him and his band of fellow Talifans sure won’t give up.

Maybe they ought to find a new hobby.

77. THX-1138 - July 14, 2014

It’s foolish for anyone to take Orci’s quotes seriously. It didn’t work out so well for fans last time. He can go ahead and lower JJ’s cone of mystery or box of silence or whatever and we can just wait to see what gets put on screen.

I’m going to wait for spoiler reviews. If Khan is even tangentially referenced I’ll wait for the bluray. Maybe.

78. Commodore Adams - July 14, 2014

@ 66. IDIC Lives!

Awesome! Thanks for sharing. With regards to what you just wrote and the concepts behind TMP are exactly the grand scale ideas I would like Star Trek to deal with. That is what gets me excited.

Must have been cool to be at the TMP premiere in costume, alas I was born in 83 so I missed out.

Oh yes, the prelude music, I always listen to it when I watch TMP. I also wonder how excited and energized people must have felt in the theatre when that new Star Trek theme started to play.

Lol that is awesome that you hid to watch the next showing. Classic.

“Captain Decker was part of the trans-humanist movement whereas Kirk was a dinosaur individualist” Did not know that.

I shall read some articles on trans-humanism.

IDIC Lives! this is all very fascinating. My friends and I often get into similar in depth topics of conversation. I think we would have some fascinating conversations and debates.

Nice to hear your thoughts.

79. Ahmed - July 14, 2014

@76. Red Dead Ryan

“Maybe they ought to find a new hobby.”

We love to annoy the heck out of you, puppet :-)

80. Commodore Adams - July 14, 2014

Another good example is Jodorowsky’s Dune that never was. When I hear the passion in Jodorowsky voice when he speaks of what he wanted to create with Dune is the epicness, the transcending nature, the je ne ce quoi I speak of. Something that is vastly different from the status quo. Although when you make movies like that you can end up alienating yourself and loosing the studio money. Are sci fi movies no longer able to obtain the kind of grandeur and vastness of Star Trek The Motion Picture or 2001: A Space Odyssey? I can give Tron Legacy credit for at least attempting that kind epicness and trying to achieve something transcending. It is a visually beautiful movie but ended up tripping and falling into the same pit. Its like oh Oh ohhh you almost had it.

One of my favourite TNG episodes (not because its an emotionally moving story or touching story but because of the possibilities) is “Where No Man Has Gone Before.” When they travel beyond the known universe into a place of non space with waves of nebulous cloud-like formation and moving orbs of energy, where thought become reality. That is another fine example of what I speak of. Unfortunately its only a TV episode and could not explore that aspect dept. Not just where they were with regards to coordinates but where they truly ARE. They went beyond M33, arrived in this place and got out as soon as they could.

I say: don’t try to remake TMP, V’Ger, and the Decker melding, but use them as a guideline for a kind of deep exploration beyond the obvious and physical to something that will make people come out of the theatre mind altered by what they have experience forcing them into deep though about what is, what could be and what will be.

I like TMP because of the vastness of the underlying idea that they tried to covey regardless how well or poorly it came across to various people. I see and understand what they were trying to do

You don’t hire Isaac Asimov as a consultant for nothing.

81. Buzz Cagney - July 14, 2014

Commodore Adams, it was truly amazing to be there when TMP was released. Goosebumps formed on my arms when Kirk was delivered to the beautiful new Enterprise. I could have cried to see Trek looking so freakin magnificent.
Yea, its failings are there for all to see yet it remains one of those emotion filled times that will stay with me forever. And you can’t say that about many movies.

82. Harry Ballz - July 14, 2014

@77 THX-1138

THX, you are one smooth bastard, you know that? Short, sweet and to the point.

Most people wouldn’t recognize how clever your prose is, but I do.

83. Harry Ballz - July 14, 2014

@81 Buzz Cagney

Buzz, i know what you mean. I was 24 when I went to the premiere of ST:TMP on opening night in 1979.

I was bedazzled, walking out of the theatre stunned as I tried to absorb what I had just seen.

I knew, instinctively, that I was unhappy with the pace of the movie, but that I also had just witnessed something important and worthy of Trek.

84. Disinivited - July 15, 2014

#36. Nemesis4909 – July 14, 2014

It does appear to be a recurring problem:

https://movies.yahoo.com/blogs/the-reel-breakdown/check-star-trek-writers-planting-easter-eggs-tribbles-215642312.html

In that interview, not only Bob but also Alex contends that in STID they chase Khan to Vulcan where they can’t use a “Federal” shuttle.

85. Cygnus-X1 - July 15, 2014

31. TUP – July 14, 2014

Why is it, other movie franchises and TV shows embrace the idea of continuity and episodic story telling and yet its such a dirty thought with Star Trek. it really does seem like these people think the Trek fans will watch anything and they have to trick the mainstream into seeing a movie that just happens to be Star Trek.

That’s basically what Paramount has redesigned Trek to be. The foreign market that they’re ordering the BR Trek movies tailored for don’t particularly like Star Trek, as indicated by Paramount’s global focus group research. So, they’ve simply had the BR Trek movies altered accordingly to appeal to people who don’t like Trek. They’ve taken Trek out of Trek in large part, but are cashing in on the name recognition (of the movies and the characters) and legacy of the franchise.

The reason that people who never used to like Trek like it now is because it doesn’t much resemble Trek, not because those people have changed their minds about pre-BR Trek.

86. Admiral_Bumblebee - July 15, 2014

@71 You don’t really imply that everyone goes to those conventions? And also conventions are not the same as legends reprising their roles in a movie.

A big part of why people are so excited about the next Star Wars movie is to see Luke Skywalker, Han Solo and Princess Leia again – played by the respective actors. They are excited to see Mark Hamill again as Luke, Harrison Ford as Han Solo etc.
Of course they are also excited about the story but I seriously doubt the movie would create this much buzz and lure as many people into the cinemas if they “old actors” wouldn’t be a part of it.

And the same for Star Trek. I believe that it would create a lot of hype if they would reveal that William Shatner, Leonard Nimoy and Patrick Stewart would reprise their roles as Kirk, Spock and Picard and join the new actors for a grand adventure.

Also NOW is the time to do it. 1. It’s the 50th anniversary of Trek and 2. the actors are still around and well and would love to do it for sure.

87. spocky - July 15, 2014

12. Finnigan is exactly right – and all that should have happened already in the 2nd movie!! Into Darkness left everyone in the same place they already were at the end of the 1st film.

88. TUP - July 15, 2014

there are a lot of people that say “William Shatner is too old to play Captain Kirk” that also get giddy at the thought of Harrison Ford as Han Solo.

I dont believe for one second that Bob Orci is a true Star Trek fan. oh sure, he might have watched the series. He might know what a Tribble and a Gorn is and then he pats himself on the back when he includes references to those things. But does he really get Star Trek? Apparently not.

This is a serious question to Bob – what did you do to research Star Trek history prior to the first movie? Did you go by memory? Did you watch the TOS films? Did you fully immerse yourself in every single episode of Star Trek, read the chronologies, talk to long-time Trek writers etc? Because all I see from these movies is surface knowledge, not true deep understanding.

Khan being the most obvious example of this but there were many. McCoy is actually a huge example too. That first scene with him was really good (aside from the silly motivation for joining Starfleet that doesnt hold up under scrutiny) but all he turned into was one liners and grumpy observations. He became a prop for Kirk to act off of.

89. Curious Cadet - July 15, 2014

@88. TUP,
“all I see from these movies is surface knowledge, not true deep understanding.”

Meh. I’m not going to challenge him over this. Frankly, based on some of the comments I see from fans on this very forum, he falls into the same trap as many of them — taking his favorite parts and putting them together in a collage bereft of purpose other than his own nostalgic delight. He may or may not be a “true” fan, but I don’t question it based on what I’ve seen.

As for Shatner as Kirk, vs. Ford as Solo, et al, all I can say is Shatner is no Ford. If Star Wars fans are indeed giddy about the old cast appearing in the next film, there’s a big difference — most of the actors have been out of the limelight for many years, and Ford has worked hard to distance himself from Star Wars. In that respect Shatner is his own worst enemy. Also, the story is wide open to revisit them, with Obie Wan Kenobi as precedent, whereas Prime Kirk is dead, and in a different universe, and Trek really hasn’t been about multi-generational evolution. If TNG had been about Kirk’s grandson, then maybe there would be some basis for that, all things being equal.

So I get why Shatner is just wrong for Trek, 50th Anniversary and all. That doesn’t mean there’s not some role for him to play, but likely not without some convoluted, shoehorned fiction that will only serve to disrupt a movie which is likely already artistically challenged before frame one is shot.

90. Admiral_Bumblebee - July 15, 2014

There isn’t even a need to explain Prime Kirk’s return with much screentime. For example if we would have the Borg as the villain wanting to conquer both universes, they could simply have resurrected Prime Kirk and made him into a Borg. So this would be just a few lines in the movie:

Picard: “I though you were dead… I saw you die!”
Kirk: “The Borg brought me back, turned me into this… thing…”

So that is all. We would have a cool twist – Prime Kirk being a villain at first before being rescued by Nu-Kirk and the others. We would have Shatner reprise his role in a meaningful way and we would have an epic story – Borg wanting to conquer both universes, new crew as well as old heroes have to team up to fight them. 50th anniversary accomplished.

But we wouldn’t even need the Borg for this. It could be a new enemy wanting to conquer both universes and using Prime-Kirks as a distraction and/or weapon. The possibilities are endless for a great epic story spanning generations and universes!

91. I am not Herbert - July 15, 2014

yes, paramount, jj, boborci are all just EXPLOITING Star Trek… =(

…and in the process, willfully corrupting and minimizing it’s true legacy. =(

nu-trek sucks! =(

celebrating the 50th will come from the fans! paramount can eat my shorts!

92. IDIC Lives! - July 15, 2014

#78 Commodore Adams

My, you are a young commodore. And here I am still just a captain. :-)

Anyway, yes, it is fascinating to see how our current science and technology are exploding with advancements we had not dreamed of even 5 years ago.

As well as the prospect of trans-humanism (which is the philosophical aspect of the Singularity), there is the fact that a microbiologist recently created 2 new DNA letters. So now instead of our old 4 organic DNA letters to combine in our DNA helix, we can now have (potentially) 6 DNA letters. That is 172 amino acids in the future instead of our organic 20 and those are the building blocks of life. What will these new options create for us and in us?

My point, just how smart and capable will future humans be?!! Their intelligence will have increased exponentially thanks to computer enhancement (so say the experts), and they will be created, perhaps artificially, with a playground of 172 amino acids. Khan may well be in the pipeline :-) perhaps Roddenberry was wrong by only a few decades regarding the genetic wars on Earth.

But above all, Star Trek is hopeful about our future. Humankind is capable of joining the galactic races. We will behave ourselves (no war, no aggression), but we will defend ourselves if threatened.

Joyfully, most beings advanced enough to have space travel are advanced enough to be peaceful.”

That is nearly a word for word quote from Captain Kirk in “Corbomite Maneuver” which I notice was one of GR’s favorites. Mine too.

Star Trek is about our evolution as a species. It is about all the fantastic stuff which is “out there,” – we cannot even begin to imagine it! But we will explore it one day in the not distant future.

Glad to know you and discuss as we might, Commodore.

93. Tom - July 15, 2014

90 Admiral_Bumblebee

Based on the comments from Bob and the other writers, it does not seem like they are going in the diection of a generations series spanning epic. it looks like they are going to try and do an original and storyline that takes a new direction. That is what most seem to want. However I do think they are going to reference TOS and others in a nod to the 50th anniversary. I think they are just going to avoid the whole retelling of a past episode trap. That would still leave more than enough opportunity to do a few quality scenes with a Shatner and Nimoy etc. In fact Bob has said in the podcast that it is possible if it serves the story. So hopefully they can acknowledge the past as well as bring something new and fresh that is welcomed by the audience to make $$$

94. Yanks - July 15, 2014

16. Commodore Adams – July 13, 2014

Nicely put. I’ll say to you what I’ve said in my reviews of ST09 and STID. I think the same applies to ST2-10 as well.

Star Trek is best served on TV where human moral themes can be tested over time. Look at the “TNG movies”… were they even close to the TNG we saw for 7 years on TV?

Enjoy these popcorn blockbusters because their sucess just might be what drives a new TV series back on the air for us. (that’s what I have my fingers crossed for)

Mr Orci, I wish you be best of luck with this film. Just tone the lens flares down a little more and no more rip-off reversals please. No need to reference previous performances or delemas. You have a clean slate, please use it. Give Star Trek something new!

95. stephan - July 15, 2014

91. I am not Herbert – July 15, 2014

Oh, we didn’t know that you didn’t like the last two movies. You should post it more often. Maybe another two thousand times?

A day without a JJ-bashing post seems like a wasted day.

96. Admiral_Bumblebee - July 15, 2014

@93 I fear that you are right. But another movie like STID doesn’t fit with the anniversary. Would the reboot from 2009 have been released for the 50th anniversary it would have been something different, but it is the third movie. Imagine Transformers 3 as THE movie for the anniversary of the series – it simply wouldn’t be fitting as it would not be something special. It would just be another movie in the series.

So we will get just another regular Star Trek movie for the 50th anniversary. The third movie in a row of movies… Not very exciting.

97. dennycranium - July 15, 2014

It’s show business.
I’m not sure Paramount gives a rip about “real fans.” (Insert definition here)
They are putting up $100 million plus to get the average movie patron to cough up the $12 or so and see the movie.
Orci may write a kick ass story that pleases “real fans” but it’s the suits that will greenlight the script. If they want dinosaurs in it, Orci and company will give them dinosaurs, plain and simple. If I was looking at a 6 or 7 figure payday to direct a film, I’d write Sailor Moon and Honey BooBoo into the story if I had to.

98. TUP - July 15, 2014

Yes there is a difference between Shatner and Harrison Ford. Mark Hamill might be a better comparison because he’s a guy that wasnt known for much beyond Luke Skywalker until “reinventing” himself as a vice actor in much the same way Shatner reinvented himself, first as someone able to poke fun at himself with a strng sense of humour (Priceline) and then as a serious actor (Denny Crane). In many respects, Shatner is far more critically acclaimed than Hamil.

Hamill is also someone that many fans questioned was able to return to the Skywalker role to due age and appearance. He’s a lot younger than Shatner too.

The only way it makes sense to bring back Shatner for the next film is if it’s the generations-spanning epic that “fixes” the timeline. In that sense, it flows organically from Star Trek. if you include other “cameos” from Trek actors it also becomes less of “oh they shoehorned Shatner in” and more of a homage to the franchise.

Creatively, there are ways. The aforementioned Borg story has merit aside from the Borg being done to death. But as a plot point, they exist in both the past and present and could also be linked to V’ger in an interesting way.

Personally, I think Guardian of Forever or Q are the best ways one would do it. Im not saying either is a great idea, just probably the best. One could argue that both would be “immune” to the time travel contradictions, MWT etc.

GoF would fit more into doing a deep space “origional” story. Whereas Q might represent a way to A) have a clear and charismatic villain B) bring generations together without a lot of explanation and have a story that speaks to some greater emotional human story (Q’s stories tended in later years to “teach” something about humanity).

I think i wrote in a different thread that if you took the Q story where he “rescued” a dying Picard as inspiration, you could have Q intervene at the moment of Kirk’s death in Generations. As Kirk’s gaze looks past Picard and he utters “oh my”, we switch to Kirk’s perspective as he sees the white light approaching (or his “oh my” being because he sees Q standing behind Picard which would play for laughs…bad idea) and he “awakens” in the same white “room” Picard did.

Q explains who he is (since Kirk wouldn’t know) which allows for the viewer to understand who he is (allows for a Trelane reference for hardcore fans) and lets Q sum up who James Kirk is to the fanbase – that he was a man of destiny, meant more to the universe than he can imagine etc etc. As we go, Kirk could argue, that Q is going to show him how his youth impacted his future? yadda yadda…No, Q replies. I dont have to show you. I can take you there.

Ofcourse, there needs to be a plot. Which should centre around the Nero incursion, Red Matter black hole etc unraveling space/time.

In the end, a still alive Shatner Kirk with Spock Prime at his side pass the torch.

99. Cygnus-X1 - July 15, 2014

97. dennycranium – July 15, 2014

It’s show business. I’m not sure Paramount gives a rip about “real fans.”

Paramount has worked hard at dissociating BR Trek from Trekkies/ers.

They botched the marketing for STID just to avoid the faintest appearance that it was a movie for Trek fans.

As for whether or not it’s possible for Orci to make a Trek movie that would appeal to fans as well as non-fans, I have to think that it is possible. I have to believe that even the non-Trek-liking foreign market, for whom the BR movies have been de-Trekked, would be able to recognize and appreciate a good quality movie if they saw it—even if it’s more in line with traditional Trek values and sensibilities.

As for Orci’s payday and Paramount’s financial goals, those things do nothing for me. If people are making decisions based on purely on cost/benefit economic analysis, then I see no reason to remove from the equation the cost of diminishing loyalty, fan support and enthusiasm. I’m not giving them good word of mouth or granting them apologetics. If they want my support and patronage, they’ll have to make a product that I can get behind. Maybe if support and enthusiasm for BR Trek dwindles enough, Paramount will eventually take notice and/or Orci will begin to feel some pressure to mitigate those loses.

100. Harry Ballz - July 15, 2014

TUP, if they show Kirk talking with Q right after Kirk “died” in Generations, how would they depict that? Generations came out in 1994, 20 years ago (HOLY CRAP!). The 83 year old Shatner of today looks a LOT different, I don’t care how much CGI you use!

101. Ahmed - July 15, 2014

‘X-Men: Days of Future Past’ brought Xavier back after he was killed in ‘X-Men: The Last Stand’. They didn’t feels the need to explain it, Xavier simply told Logan in the post-credits scene for The Wolverine that he is “not the only one with gifts.”.

And DOFP become the most successful X-Men movie ever. It is science fiction, dead people come back all the time by various methods. If a write want to bring someone back, they will find a way.

102. IDIC Lives! - July 15, 2014

No offense to our beloved Nimoy but he appeared as Old Spock, is it so much worse to be too fat than too thin? At 83, Nimoy is gnarly and wise-looking and maybe the stereotype says, a plump man is not as wise as a thin man? Poppycock! If Nimoy is fine – in fact wonderful – in 2 nuTrek appearances, so will be Shatner. I think this is plump bias. haha

And if everyone else can be brought back from the dead, from Prime Spock to nuKirk, so can our beloved Prime Kirk. It needn’t be a long explanation.

I really do wonder if nuKirk is so much not the captain that Prime Kirk, as old as he might be, is feared as possibly showing up nuKirk. It’s not Pine’s fault (not sure if he has it or not, but there’s been few opportunities to BE the Captain), it’s the way it’s been written.

103. Harry Ballz - July 15, 2014

Spock Prime was supposed to be as old looking as possible. He came back in time from the Picard era, so he was supposed to be, what, 160?

To have Shatner pick up where he left off after dying in Generations. I mean, C’MON, he looks TOTALLY different now.

It’s two different situations and you know it!

104. Ahmed - July 15, 2014

@ 103. Harry Ballz – July 15, 2014

“To have Shatner pick up where he left off after dying in Generations. I mean, C’MON, he looks TOTALLY different now.”

A by-product of the resurrection process is the rapid aging of captain Kirk. Similar to Spock accelerated aging in Star Trek III: The Search for Spock. Problem solved!

It is not like they really need to explain anything. After all they didn’t explain how Khan was different in STID, you will need to buy the comics to find out. They could do that again with Kirk in the Countdown 3.

105. Xplodin_Nacelle - July 15, 2014

Andorians would be a fun choice.

Tellarites, Ithanites, or the Breen, would be fun to explore too. Lets all beam down to Babel!!!

106. IDIC Lives! - July 15, 2014

#103 Mr. Ballz

Well, if these nu productions were immaculate, you’d have a point. But we all knew, for instance, that they just wrote-in Nimoy in STID and we were happy to see Nimoy. It’s not like there are no plot holes in nuTrek; so far–they have been big enough to drive the Excelsior through.

Personally, I would rather simply have Prime Kirk with Prime Spock, old friends together and we all get “remember me!” tears in our eyes, than to bother with the death scene and a resurrection, thus the difference in age problem. It could be referenced briefly how Prime Kirk was saved or brought back but now, obviously, he is still alive and with Prime Spock. No doubt humans will live longer in the future, we already live longer than past generations.

I am not one to say Shatner “must” be in the next nuTrek. So far I admire him for avoiding it. However–it is tempting.

107. Harry Ballz - July 15, 2014

@106

Oh, don’t get me wrong, IDIC. I’d love to see Shatner in the 50th anniversary salute.

As for Shatner “avoiding it”?

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!!!

(wipes tear0

Oh, that’s hilarious! Shatner “avoiding” being in a movie??!!

That guy is such a glory-hog, he’d go to the opening of an envelope!

108. Disinvited - July 15, 2014

#100. Harry Ballz – July 15, 2014

Well, the current hot Blockbuster is DAWN OF THE PLANET OF THE APES. Is it your contention that Andy Serkis couldn’t play this identically CGIed character 50 years hence?

What of casting Shatner in any of the currently CGIed ape roles? Total impossible that he could play a young ape?

109. Disinvited - July 15, 2014

#103. Harry Ballz – July 15, 2014

No exactly, I mean there’s always the soap opera gimmick of that he was revived shortly after but had amnesia for the intervening years.

110. Craiger - July 15, 2014

We forget that Kirk is alive and well in the 24th Century after being revived by Borg technology. What if Q tells Kirk what happened to Spock and helps Kirk go to the AU and rescue him? Once their Kirk meets his younger self and the Enterprise crew?

111. Craiger - July 15, 2014

I forgot that the novels aren’t canon but they could still base the next film on that storyline couldn’t they?

112. Tom - July 15, 2014

96 Admiral_Bumblebee

I agree it would not be special or worthy of the 50th anniversary if it is just a third movie in the series. I believe they will do some things in this movie to make it special. A nice scene with Shatner and Nimoy would do it for me. Of course the question is how but I am sure Bob and team are up to the task. Bob’s Shatner scene fpr 09 was cool. They’ll figure it out

113. crazydaystrom - July 15, 2014

98. TUP

“Personally, I think Guardian of Forever or Q are the best ways…”

I would LOVE to see the Guardian used in a Trek movie! Q, not so much. I usually found him annoying. (I admit I liked him in the TNG finale though.). But the Guardian has so much potential for a story. And I don’t mean a simple time travel story, but one with many-layered and complex. I’d also want a story not only using the Guardian merely as a device but as well a story takes away some of the mystery about it and perhaps lets us find out something about its creation/creator(s). The potential for adventure and discovery would be nearly unlimited. As long as its not a remake or sequel to COTEOF I say –

THE GUARDIAN OF FOREVER!
Yeah

114. Tom - July 15, 2014

113 crazydaystrom

Agreed on the Guardian!! TUP is right. It could easily go in a different direction and not remake COTEF. To clarify to my earlier statement about an appearance by Shatner and Nimoy making it special, that would only apply if the movie rocks not if it sucks

115. somethoughts - July 15, 2014

yes to guardian of forever

116. crazydaystrom - July 15, 2014

Aarg!! My post 113 should’ve read -
“…one many-layered and complex…” and “a story *that* takes away some of the mystery…”. I guess you got the drift.

117. somethoughts - July 15, 2014

Just go big grand sci fi mystery with the borg and the guardian of forever showing kirk and spock prime universe and alternate realities.

Patrick Stewart as Locutus, William Shatner as Kirk Prime

nuSpock assimilated, nuKirk saves him this time. Tie in 2009 with assimilated Nero

That would be awesome 50th anniv

118. crazydaystrom - July 15, 2014

117. somethoughts

Something like that really would be awesome somethoughts! But my expectations are rather lowered as a defense from disappointment. I’m hoping for a good solid Trek movie for the 50th. I just can’t bring myself to even wish for awesome. :-(

119. Commodore Adams - July 15, 2014

@ 81. Buzz Cagney – July 14, 2014

Thanks for sharing. I can only imagine how that felt. I first saw TMP in 90 when I was 7, its also when I first discovered the movies. Although I was used to watching TOS reruns and TNG, when I first saw the Constitution refit, I was in awe….but I doubt it was anything like 79′

120. Red Dead Ryan - July 15, 2014

Let’s see if I got this straight: the fans clamoring for the Borg, Q, Guardian of Forever, William Shatner, and Patrick Stewart to be in the third movie are the same folks who’ve been bashing the new movies as being unimaginative, derivative, and convoluted?

Are these folks the same ones demanding a totally original, free-from-canon storyline but at the same time putting out their own canon-laden (heavily reliant on Prime Universe content, no less) fanfic ideas on this site that realistically has no chance of being scripted for the big screen?

Well, it would seem so!

Ah, the irony!

121. Keachick (Rose) - July 16, 2014

#120 – Yes, I know…quite pitiful actually.

Perhaps you may see my scene with Kirk and other crewmen and women naked in a hot tub on a brand new space station next to the Menosian system as a step up – I doubt anything like this scene will have been written before for a Star Trek film. Kirk gets out, wrapping a towel around his waist, but when he sees a nuli through the space station window and they *look at*, sense each other, he forgets he is holding his towel and it falls to the floor. *We* see the back of Kirk naked from head to foot as well as what he is looking at.

Kirk reaches for a communicator and just as he is about to contact acting captain Spock on the Enterprise, it is Spock who says to him, “Captain, do you see what I see?”. “Yes, I do”…..

Please – no swearing this time.

122. Disinvited - July 16, 2014

#121. Keachick (Rose) – July 16, 2014

Maybe not on screen, but you could color me surprised to discover that fans have been asserting that public bathing wasn’t a part of the cultures depicted in the episodes, THE OMEGA GLORY, BREAD AND CIRCUSES and PLATO’S STEPCHILDREN.

123. TUP - July 16, 2014

Keachick is the same one who wants something original and new, like William Shatner as Uncle Allan. bwahahahahahahaha

No no no, wanting Shatner or GoF does not mean “rehash”. A good story is a good story. Period. Was WoK a re-hash? I’d argue that both modern films were “origional”. People see Khan and say “oh they have no original ideas” but how they used Khan *was* original in the sense it was completely against how the character had been established. Bad writing is bad writing.

The lack of originality in STID was more to the left wing Hollywood arrogance that needs to comment on George Bush and the nature of war and how bad the U.S. is. As we’ve discussed before, there *was* a better story burried deep down inside STID but these writers didnt want to tell it (Marcus as the “other side of the coin” mentor to Kirk). it’s much easier to play on Americans’ self-loathing and the easy point score of the big bad American war machine,

But I digress.

Harry – Im honestly not that concerned about the appearance of William Shatner. And let me say this, how many of us hope to be as “old, tired, fat etc” as William Shatner when we’re 83 years old? EIGHTY THREE friggen years old? The guy looks fantastic and moreso than his physical appearance is how active, witty etc he is.

Clearly there is CGI that can de-age actors to a degree. If Im the film-makers I sign Shatner early and supply him with a team of chefs, dieticians, personal trainers, just like Disney did with the Star Wars actors. The idea should be to get Shatner to drop an easy 20 lbs or so. You use make-up r CGI or whatever. And quite frankly, there are plot devices to explain it. A) you could have 83 year old Shatner “refilm” the end of Generations so the difference isnt as jarring or B) Kirk exists in the Q afterlife or “what seemed like an eternity”, implying he aged while Q showed him the impact his pre-destined life had on everyone with perhaps the motivation of giving Kirk the opportunity to “accept” his life/career and “pass on”…which ofcourse Captain Kirk doesn’t because there is always more life worth living. Which could be the point of the whole thing, that Q tries to convince James Kirk to walk away and ofcourse can’t which is *actually* Q’s motivation and thus some destiny Kirk still must fulfill.

But as I said, GoF probably works better (though there is a way to combine GoF and Q, perhaps the Q or some Q precurrsor built Guardian at the time they ascended to omnipotence). GoF could explain that it not only shows anything from anytime, but any universe, that all that exists is one to the GoF. If it’s the future GoF that is somehow captured or whatnot and must be set right.

124. crazydaystrom - July 16, 2014

120. Red Dead Ryan
“Let’s see if I got this straight: the fans clamoring for the Borg, Q, Guardian of Forever, William Shatner, and Patrick Stewart to be in the third movie are the same folks who’ve been bashing the new movies as being unimaginative, derivative, and convoluted?”

RDR I’m not going to parse your post and try to pick it apart word for word to explain why you’re wrong in regards to me. Especially since your not. Not 100%.

My desire to have the Guardian of Forever revisited is a long held wish and dream ever since in TWOK Khan was revisited showing us how great it could be for the Trek movie series to touch on (and spring off) the history of the tv series. There never has been in all these years any thing or facet of TOS that I ever wanted to see again more than the Guardian and I’d hoped to one day see the original cast/crew stand before it and step through it again. Or I guess leap through it would be the better phrase.

My main issues with STID were the fact that with ALL the history of the original series at the disposal of the film makers to mine they opted to use again Khan. And the miscasting (albeit with a fine actor) of the character, and the secrecy about him and the Kirk/Spock death scene reversal and the Khan scream….and several other things in and about the film that have been debated and argued here and elsewhere ever since the movie’s release. Those things for me were distracting made the whole experience feel derivative and less fresh and imaginative than it could have been. Than it should been IMO. The result was for me a huge disappointment that though lessened over the months still taint and affect my feelings about STID.

But having elements, small or large, from TOS in and of itself does not equal derivation or lack of imagination. (Seems I’m parsing though I said I would not.) NuTrek is in whole and in essence a derivation! I have no problem with that. Never have. And in fact, like all of us fans, gleefully welcomed it. While I truly want new and fresh Trek using the Guardian or Tholians or the Gorn or whatever would be no more of a problem for me than the fact of using Kirk, Spock, Bones et al and the Enterprise herself! Really that is what we want and what it’s all about.

As I said in my post 113 I’d love to see the Guardian again as long as it wasn’t for a remake or sequel to COTEOF. Use TOS elements without being unimaginatively derivative is what I ask for.

Of course every fan is going to have her or his wishes and desires re nuTrek. I really didn’t want to see Spock Prime again after ST’09 even though Nimoy’s Spock is my favorite Star Trek character ever. I want to see the nu crew boldly going on their own. I’ve said here more than once ‘no’ to Shatner being brought back. But I guess I’ll contradict myself here and say if for the 50th old cast members are brought back I wouldn’t mind. As long as their appearances do not reek of contrivance and causes the film to be less than ‘all of a piece’. As I’ve said here before I think the original cast and series would be best honored in a documentary type tv special for the 50th and let the movie series proceed on it’s own in a good, solid and hopefully extraordinary way.

125. crazydaystrom - July 16, 2014

121. Keachick (Rose)
“#120 – Yes, I know…quite pitiful actually.”

Well I DON’T NEED YOUR PITY!!!

Haha! Just kidding, Keachick. Really.
In truth by one measure or other there’s something at least a little pitiful about everything said on this site on threads such as this one. My posts certainly. We love Trek so much.

Your scene is one that I would be okay with in a Trek movie but I think it’ll be quite awhile, if ever, before something like that will be shown on screen. Too mature for what the studios seem to envision Star Trek to be.

126. IDIC Lives! - July 16, 2014

121. Keachick (Rose)
“#120 – Yes, I know…quite pitiful actually.”

Having a fantasy of Pine/Kirk dropping his towel is quite pitiful actually.

127. somethoughts - July 16, 2014

#120

I have never bashed 2009 or stid, I have found both films quite enjoyable and was one of the first to tell orci to use khan in a new way. Go back to 2009 posts and you will see I replied to him to do it and even integrate Khan into starfleet and have him turn his back on starfleet and have Kirk and crew chase him and face off against him.

I dont mind seeing them use established elements and telling new stories, tgof will work so will the borg why reinvent the wheel when there is 50yrs of material to be tapped into.

128. Disinvited - July 16, 2014

Come to think of it wasn’t there a gag where somebody in a Dr. Zaius mask did a Shatner impression? Didn’t Shatner say he wore various masks when he was getting background research for his GET A LIFE book? Anybody know if he wore a PLANET OF THE APES mask?

As I recall, Zaius was played by renowned Shakespearean actor, Maurice Evans, so that character would be in Bill’s wheelhouse.

I wonder if Shatner would be game to appear in the next Trek movie as a character based on one of the masks he used to interview fans?

129. Keachick (Rose) - July 16, 2014

No, William Shatner could be playing some (closely) related to the alt. James T Kirk and share the Kirk name. He would be playing an ORIGINAL character but could be recognizable as a Kirk, not only from physical features but because of similar mannerisms like vocal inflections and characteristics in common. He is the uncle (or other) who does not just necessarily go along with the status quo (whatever that is) and who goes off independently, courageously, to do his own thing. Perhaps that is where he has been, living in some far off distant colony or research post in another part of the quadrant…I don’t know, just musing. What is apparent is these relatives (although separated for most of alt. Jim’s life) have more in common than not – which also brings up the other question – the nature/nurture one…

#126 – My scene with Kirk dropping towel (which I note is all that you managed to get from that scene – why am I not surprised?) is part of a larger context (theme).

Yes, I have that happen to (Pine) Kirk as opposed to another character, and yes, it may have a little to do with my own fantasy, but it is a lot more than that. Is no one allowed to express through their writing/story outline a little of their own fantasy/desire/wish/interest in your “transhumanist” world?

Oh dear…

130. TUP - July 16, 2014

Kirk dropping a towel is needless T&A. I dont have an issue with T&A when it comes from a place organically. For example, the scene in Star Trek when Uhura, Kirk and Greeny were all in their underwear. It wasn’t gratuitous. The Marcus scene was.

Anywho, casting William Shatner in Star Trek as ANYTHING but James T Kirk is so absurdly idiotic it doesn’t even warrant a response.

Side note, I can’t wait to see Star Wars with Harrisson Ford as Uncle Fred Solo and Mark Hamill as Cousin Stinky Skywalker.

131. Ahmed - July 16, 2014

@130. TUP

“Side note, I can’t wait to see Star Wars with Harrisson Ford as Uncle Fred Solo and Mark Hamill as Cousin Stinky Skywalker.”

LOL

132. somethoughts - July 16, 2014

#130

LOL

133. Daoud, The Sinfonian - July 16, 2014

@130 Yet, ten years ago, we would have totally bought into William Shatner appearing in Star Trek: Enterprise as The Chef, who actually turned out to be a time-travelling Kirk using the GoF or whichever deus ex machina was necessary. Also, many of us back then would have been glad to have him turn out to be Future Guy, a mirror Kirk a/k/a exiled-to-the-future Emperor Tiberius.

134. IDIC Lives! - July 16, 2014

I think Chris Pine as Cousin Willy Kirk would be absolutely tantalizing. He could drop his shorts as he reaches for an apple on ye old farm of George Kirk, the long lost brother of, yes, Uncle Alan (I miss that guy!).

Someone needs to get Cousin Willy a safety pin for his shorts but then–!! Willy gets a phone call from Starfleet and is asked to come be the captain of the Enterprise. Oh, this would be so much better Trek than that TOS science fiction stuff. It is just nonsense – especially when you can’t understand the plots.

135. IDIC Lives! - July 16, 2014

Keachick “My scene with Kirk dropping towel (which I note is all that you managed to get from that scene – why am I not surprised?) is part of a larger context (theme).”

Wow, I am so happy you explained that because I thought when you said “part of the larger context” you were talking about a personal area on the Captain.

Well, you were talking about a personal area on the Captain but–an adjacent personal area (nod, nod, wink, wink).

Hey, this will really add to Pine/Kirk’s image of authority (which needs work), so showing his naked arse should be just the ticker.

Incidentally, I hope Pine doesn’t mind you discussing his arse cheeks.

136. TUP - July 16, 2014

I was against the idea of Shatner as Chef but to be honest, it would have been forgivable in the sense it was TV. There was little reason to expect a return to films anytime in Shatner’s life.

Had they used Shatner as Tiberious, it would have been okay too, again because its television. As time passes, nostalgia grows and you start wanting to see these guys return to their iconic roles before it’s too late.

If Shatner appeared on Enterprise as Tiberious, there was nothing preventing him from appearing again as Kirk. But if Shatner isnt in the next movie, thats probably it for him appearing on screen in Star Trek so if you have one shot left, why would you do anything but have him be James T Kirk.

Quite honestly, Generations was bad for many reasons, but one of those reasons was killing Kirk. Kirk shouldn’t have died. I wont blame Berman et al for the killing as much as they deserve blame for the execution (double entendre). It really seemed like TOS’ swan song so it was bringing to an end the “career” of Kirk. But the way things work now, I really think Shatner surviving the next movie and riding off into the sunset would be a lot more appealing, not because we hold out hope that in 20 years he can reprise his role as a 103 year old Kirk but because we want to fondly remember the character and romanticise in our own minds all the adventures he might have gone onto.

137. Keachick (Rose) - July 16, 2014

What is T & A? I forgot… is it important that I should remember?

My scene is no more gratuitous than the scene with Gaila and Jim in Gaila’s room. I don’t actually care if other fans or whoever say that public bathing was not part of these alien cultures.

Public bathing is a part of our culture – we go to pools and beaches. It is more a question of how much individuals are ordered/legally enforced to wear while they bathe, take saunas, other.

In this new 23rd century space station, there is no enforcement – it is clothing optional when it comes to sitting in a hot tub, spa or sauna. Towels are provided for obvious reasons, ie to get dry, not drip all over the floor… However, (overt) sexual activity, irrespective of orientation, is not allowed. The space station does provide accommodation for crews and others seeking rest and recreation while at the station.

My scene is not gratuitous. It goes directly to what and who the nuli are and the sense that Kirk and the nuli share is not of a sexual nature at all. So sad that so many of you cannot see beyond the sexual and yet ironically seem so unable to embrace that which is sexual.

138. IDIC Lives! - July 16, 2014

Keachick
“So sad that so many of you cannot see beyond the sexual and yet ironically seem so unable to embrace that which is sexual.”

I hate to tell you but this statement of yours is what makes no sense and that is what’s sad.

T&A is tits and ass – it’s what you just did to Pine/Kirk. I hope your sexual fantasy was/is at least fulfilling.

139. IDIC Lives! - July 16, 2014

Reminder for Keachick and her adult fantasy:

Many who love Star Trek, and have for almost 50 years, are youngsters, perhaps eight years old, perhaps twelve. These children want to explore alien planets or perhaps be an astronaut in the NASA tradition. Or they might become physicists or rocket scientists. Did you know many current such scientists LOVE Star Trek, which they watched when they were children? I can provide a list of well known and respected scientists who fit this description: They loved Star Trek as children and still do.

What the heck are you talking about, the Love Boat (adult style) or Star Trek? Are you talking about “Jimmy Does the Space Station” or Star Trek?

You really do not get it, do you!

140. Keachick (Rose) - July 16, 2014

No, IDIC, it is you who is actually discussing his arse cheeks, along with mentioning the adjacent personal area.

I made no such mention and the scene I described would be from a small distance in order for people to see the nuli and its space as well.

Perhaps you might like to discuss his arse cheeks and adjacent personal area with him. After all, you do have a headstart here.

This scene is part of my original story outline and I deliberately wrote it that way in order that *we* see him and what he is looking at. Seeing Kirk from the front in this scene would be gratuitous and unworkable, because we would not get a good view of the nuli and he would be looking at the camera and not the nuli. The IMPORTANT part is that he is looking out at the nuli!

I guess that just did not occur to you, did it?

On another note, and this is the ultimate crazy big IF, if any part of this does get committed to film, I doubt that Chris Pine would be prepared to bare his “adjacent personal area” to any camera (although, I have to say, he has not been asked) etc.

141. Keachick (Rose) - July 16, 2014

#139 – So do a lot of other people who are not now scientists. We saw the very same episodes that these scientists watched. I saw my first Star Trek episode as a child in 1968. Your point?

I think I get it -That only scientists, astrophysicists, science speculation and futurist writers are the only ones who have something *real*, *genuine* to offer to any further Star Trek films/series.

What I have presented is not some Love Boat story or T & A, just for the hell of it. You and others keep harping on about the concepts I present, lowering them to that of a soap opera (you do know, it seems). Do you honestly see the rest of the universe as simply being one gigantic technocratic universe, where organic life cannot possibly develop/evolve; where perception and experience cannot be different from what so-called science and technology can inform us.

Well, I do envision a place where life of a highly evolved organic nature does exist and I fear for it as well, because there are so many unsympathetic technocrats who have neither the innate breadth of heart, mind and soul to embrace such and keep a respectful distance, even if this world has the largest known deposits of nulithium crystals (similar to dilithium – needed to help power a starship) ever.

“I hate to tell you but this statement of yours is what makes no sense and that is what’s sad.”

I suspect my statement may make sense to some, but how sad it is that you just don’t get it. You drag my scene down to below the lowest common denominator, as you have always tended to, and then accuse me of doing what you and others have become so good at doing yourselves. What is even sadder is that you do not even realize what you are doing.

142. IDIC Lives! - July 16, 2014

Keachick ” You drag my scene down to below the lowest common denominator”

Well, dear, what is the highest denominator of your scene? Enlighten me.

143. IDIC Lives! - July 16, 2014

Keachick,

One can’t actually be below the lowest common denominator, but to forge on, what you suggest we would see of Pine’s ass (how else can I state it? is there a more lofty way?), would get the film an “R” rating, which would be a death knell at the box office because (yes) many young people go to see Star Trek.

So, this remains your fantasy, which is fine (not sure why you share it on a public page), but don’t try to make it an exalted scene of great import and moral piety!

144. Disinvited - July 16, 2014

#130. TUP – July 16, 2014

“arbsurdly idiotic” it may be, but that bridge was already crossed when he played the other than Kirk characters, Sargon and Dr. Janice Lester in Trek. There’s no going back.

William Shatner is an award winning actor — not a typecast. This is why he didn’t have to play the same lawyer he created in FOR THE PEOPLE, David Koster, for “absurdly idiotic” THE PRACTICE and BOSTON LEGAL.

He is more than capable of creating something equally award winning in a well-written other character for any STAR TREK.

145. Disinvited - July 16, 2014

#136. TUP – July 16, 2014

Thanks for elaborating. I better understand your position.

It sure would be nice not to have his last turn as Kirk not be GENERATIONS, the Kimmel hosted Oscars, or that DirecTV commercial.

146. Disinvited - July 16, 2014

#145. Disinvited – July 16, 2014

make that:

It sure would be nice not to have his last turn as Kirk be GENERATIONS, the Kimmel hosted Oscars, or that DirecTV commercial.

147. Keachick (Rose) - July 16, 2014

#144 – Thank you, Disinvited.

To suggest that William Shatner could not possibly play any other character in Star Trek is disrespectful to him as an actor. I think he’ll do just fine given the right character and script.
You go Bill – have always loved you, always will!

#143 – “One can’t actually be below the lowest common denominator”

Well, yes, one can be. The key word here is “common” as in “usual”, “median”, “average”.
It is the same idea as some people being below the average (common) IQ levels, 90 -115, eg someone with an IQ of 85. Then there are some (like my husband) with an IQ of 150 or his late partner with an IQ of 172 (Steve Hawkings’ is 168). See what I mean.

Really? Do you actually seek to be enlightened? Ask yourself all the possible questions as to why Kirk may drop his towel (unintentionally) and why that scene might be significant? Clue – premise that the naked human body is a healthy natural state…

148. Keachick (Rose) - July 16, 2014

If my information is correct, remember rightly, I think that the MPAA (US) allow for one scene of bare buttocks (male or female), one scene of a bare breasted woman and one F*ck word per movie, before it gets a R-rating. Therefore, if the scene I wrote above were to be filmed and the only scene revealing anyone’s bare buttocks, then it would still receive a PG-13 rating. It is clear that (virtually) anything goes when it comes to scenes of gratuitous violence, brutality, vandalism and destruction…sigh…:(

149. Red Dead Ryan - July 16, 2014

Keachick,

From now on, you might want to keep your story/fantasy to yourself. Anything anyone posts online is open for criticism. Your posts are no different.

150. somethoughts - July 16, 2014

breast size reduction for enterprise please make the nacelles more like the refit from tmp, less cgi and go with the ILM models they used in tmp. I thought the enterprise looked fake as the alien tribe was drawing the enterprise on the sand and as it faded to enterprise in space and Im not a fan of that humming sound as she warps sounds like a cheap cartoon.

151. somethoughts - July 16, 2014

enterprise ship needs to be shown as grand and slow moving in space needs to be more breath taking.

152. IDIC Lives! - July 17, 2014

Keachick

A brief math lesson: in the fraction 3/4ths, for instance, “4″ is the lowest common denominator.

“3″ is called the numerator.

This fraction cannot be reduced.

Now, if it was represented as 6/8ths, it is not in its most reduced form, and so the “8″ is not the lowest common denominator. This fraction can be reduced more (to 3/4ths).

This is what a ‘lowest common denominator” IS, by definition.

If you think Chris Pine showing his buttocks would contribute to the planet’s collective consciousness that ” the naked human body is a healthy natural state…” (quoting you), I am afraid you are a bit naïve as well as having a lack of comprehension about what Star Trek is all about.

Maybe your husband can give you a math lesson. Your example of him and Stephen Hawking has nothing to do with anything. I think you meant to say in this little example, “It is all relative.”

Stephen Hawking is not named Steve Hawkings. http://www.hawking.org.uk/

You are welcome for my assistance (I said that in my best computer Hawking voice).

153. Curious Cadet - July 17, 2014

@113. crazydaystrom,
“As long as its not a remake or sequel to COTEOF I say –”

It would not be a remake. Orci would do an “homage” with an original twist like, Spock would fall in love with Edith Keeler, and Kirk would push her in front of the bus.

Of course in this story Edith Keeler is inexplicably portrayed as a dark-skinned Indian Sikh with an accent, which will be explained in a companion comic book after the movie is released.

154. TUP - July 17, 2014

The decline of Keachick is quite entertaining to watch. Shatner as Uncle Allan. Pine nude for no other reason to show his “sensuality”. lol So weird. I have no issue with nudity on film. In fact I much prefer HBO, Netflix etc because they dont have to unnaturally censor scenes.

Ofcourse Shatner *could* play any other role. But no one can possible compare OTHER roles he played in DIFFERENT shows to playing a different character in Star Trek. Like…come on people.

155. Marja - July 17, 2014

“Who doesn’t like Q?”

[raising my hand]

156. Who cares - July 17, 2014

@Keachick. If your husband really has an IQ of 150 then why does he never stop you from posting dumb things like your wildly inaccurate statements about the Vietnam War or your inexplicable belief that New Zealand should have authority over drivers licenses issued in other nations? Now you are claiming to understand the constantly changing ratings guidlines of the MPAA which even people in Hollywood who work with them everyday don’t understand. The movie ratings rules in the US change from year to year and movie to movie. There is almost full frontal female nudity in Logan’s Run for example, which was not rated R in the era it came out, but would be today for that one scene alone.

For the record I do not agree with TUP or IDIC on the general issues of NuTrek. That said the scene Keachick proposes is worse than the Marcus underwear scene.

157. Marja - July 17, 2014

89 Curious Shatner is just wrong for Trek, 50th Anniversary and all. That doesn’t mean there’s not some role for him to play, but likely not without some convoluted, shoehorned fiction that will only serve to disrupt a movie which is likely already artistically challenged before frame one is shot.

I second that. Looking at some of the suggestions here I’m thinking those would make for a worse picture than I can imagine Orci, Payne and McKay could write on their worst day ever.

Why not a TOS Kirk and TOS Spock scene — as a frame for the AltVerse story or as a short “those were the days” pair of scenes, or as an after-credits scene. But then you have to explain Kirk’s presence in the TOS universe after he was killed on whatsit Nimbus III? But to try to shoehorn them into the Altverse story seems, to me, to be strictly fan-service to the loyalists who insist there is no Trek but TOS. Each gentleman is old now, and any role or scene they play should be one with them as venerable characters.

I love all the Treks, but I prefer to remember TOS Kirk and Spock as they were in TOS and its ensuing movies.

158. TUP - July 17, 2014

MPAA people are prudes. Violence is way more acceptable than sex/nudity. Probably because we are used to seeing real violence on the news. Things are changing ofcourse.

Topless women became common but full frontal was rare. Now full frontal is no big deal but you’d never see a penis. Now you see that and its not as big a deal. That used to get you an X (or NC-17), now it’s an R. Show an erect penis though and you’re in trouble or show very realistic simulated intercourse and you’re flirting with NC-17. That will all change ofcourse in time.

Its sort of weird that we have to protect teenagers from seeing *gasp* nude bodies. As if those same teenagers never saw their own naked bodies. And ofcourse, worse than that, is that a few people have to tell me, as an adult, what I can and cant see.

159. TUP - July 17, 2014

Also, the people that tell you their IQ is 150 are the people that like have an IQ somewhere around half of that. Smart people dont need to tell anyone how smart they are.

160. somethoughts - July 17, 2014

have shatner put on a green suit and digitally insert him into star trek 2016 as 80s version of kirk like what they did with arnold in terminator salvation, ta da

shatner needs to be in for the 50th aniv like he was kirk and the guy cmon he was star trek how can you have reboots of star trek without him once? he should have been in 2009

161. somethoughts - July 17, 2014

just write it so the scenes in prime universe is before the dumb events of generations and that lame enterprise b and stupid captain tuesday

162. IDIC Lives! - July 17, 2014

TUP
Also, IQ tests are extremely inaccurate. How does one definite “intelligence?” There are so many variations based not only in basic mind ability but also based in experience in life. How are poverty-strickened (often minorities) tested fairly when they don’t have the cultural references that the “better off” people have?– and so much more.

I taught school for 11 years in the Virgin Islands and then in Florida. I taught first and second grade and also, for 2 years, English as a Second Language. There were children who were extremely crafty, good survivors, other children who had huge help from home before they ever came to school but who were not good at socializing or surviving, so to speak, in tough social situations.

The ESL children were mostly fresh over from Southeast Asia and had been of the wealthy class, now sent running by the Viet Cong and other similar groups. They had seen bloated bodies in the river…how do you test that experience?

These Southeast Asian group (Laotians, Vietnamese, Cambodian), excelled at math, the universal language, but knew no English when they first came. They were mostly fast learners (not all). But if I gave an IQ test to a local black child, a local white child, and a Southeast Asian child, how could they possibly come up with accurate scores?

In more hard-to-discern ways, we are all different, so labeling one person with “150 IQ” while labeling another with “120 IQ” is ridiculous. It also depends on the day you take the damn test.

163. IDIC Lives! - July 17, 2014

Sorry, the first line should read, “How does one define intelligence…”

164. somethoughts - July 17, 2014

I just base intelligence on creativity, memory, problem solving, application of info, quick to learn languages, understand messages in literature and film and the big one contribution to man kind be it art, math, culture, technology.

The IQ test is just a rough sample of a persons intelligence.

165. somethoughts - July 17, 2014

mines is 158 but it doesnt mean im smart all the time lol depends if I have slept, eat properly, also I dislike timed tests and answering contrived problems and silly puzzles etc

166. Keachick (Rose) - July 17, 2014

#121 – “Kirk gets out, wrapping a towel around his waist, but when he sees a nuli through the space station window and they *look at*, sense each other, he forgets he is holding his towel and it falls to the floor. *We* see the back of Kirk naked from head to foot as well as what he is looking at.”

This is what I actually wrote, but for some reason, IDIC focuses on what she calls “arse cheeks”. Did I mention anything about Kirk’s butt, let alone his “adjacent personal area” as IDIC also writes. This is a scene showing a tall, lean man with a head, long back, butt, strong thighs and long legs, and yet all this woman (and others with T&A comments) can see is the person’s “arse cheeks”. These people are pathetic in their obsession with one part of a person’s overall anatomy and then proceed to be sneering and sarcastic towards another because of their own inappropriate views.

Well, then, IDIC, you drag my story down to the lowest common denominator, however you define that to be.

Once again, you keep telling everyone what Star Trek is supposed to be about. Who or what gives you this authority? Since when are you an arbiter in such matters?

The *mission statement* tells about “exploring strange new worlds, new civilizations…” and takes place in the 23rd century. Well, Menosia is a (strange) new world and so are the beings who inhabit this world – the main ones being the Nuli and humanoid Menosian people. It is an M-class planet populated by a lot of other flora and fauna. These beings see others like the humans who wear these strange artificial coverings and are bemused and a little disturbed by it as well, because they also tend to be more aggressive and have powerful weaponry that causes much destruction. They are curious but also a bit fearful…when the nuli observes the young Kirk standing there relaxed, wearing no artificial covering, its fears diminish a little and curiosity and desire to make contact increase.

#158 – I never told you or anyone what my IQ is and that is because I do not know what the number actually is. However, I do know what my husband and his late partner’s IQs are, which I gave as real life examples. I am not my husband nor am I his deceased partner.

167. IDIC Lives! - July 17, 2014

Keachick,
A tall man (or a short man) naked, back view, the buttocks are the obvious attention-getter.

The rest of your comment #166–not worth further comment. If someone else wants to enter the Keachick Zone, pro or con, be my guest.

A shame about the Malaysian plane – 295 people – some asshole with his finger on a missile system he never should be allowed to operate.

168. Keachick (Rose) - July 17, 2014

#156 – hmmm…He is my husband, my friend, father of my children and like me, he is an individual. He does not tell me what he thinks I should or should not write, read or watch. I do not tell him what he may read, write or watch.

“your inexplicable belief that New Zealand should have authority over drivers licenses issued in other nations?”

New Zealand does not have authority over drivers licences issued in other nations. Chris Pine could not drive here if he used his own US drivers licence. He was using an INTERNATIONAL drivers permit and the nation he is driving within, does have such authority. It is what the International Drivers Permit allows for.
I am not certain if he can drive in the US, but his concern was, (publicly documented and mentioned by his legal counsel in a NZ Court of Law) if he lost the right to drive in NZ, that he would also not be allowed to drive in Canada for the same six months… This is NOT ME writing this.

Interestingly, Chris Pine has only been photographed once driving in LA at night since the ban placed on his INTERNATIONAL drivers permit. He has been to England and parts of Europe since 17 March this year (day he lost the use of the licence in NZ) but has only been seen as a passenger, not the driver, especially in England. In LA, he has been photographed walking/hiking or been seen in a car as a passenger.

“There is almost full frontal female nudity in Logan’s Run for example, which was not rated R in the era it came out, but would be today for that one scene alone.”

My scene did not have full frontal nudity of a male or female.

So, some of my knowledge regarding the Vietnam War may be a bit off, but I suspect most people’s knowledge today would be as well informed as I am. It is quite possible that many have even less knowledge. If you are referring to my recent post about the relative numbers of soldiers fighting and the casulties sustained between that of the USA and NZ, what I said then still stands.

Mention of Carol Marcus underwear scene necessitates me to remind people here of the gratuitous skull crushing of Admiral Marcus and the vicious and wanton kicking of Kirk by Khan in the same scene.

169. Keachick (Rose) - July 17, 2014

#167 – So says you. For me, it would be the beautiful long back…

Anyway, so what if the buttocks receive a little extra attention, next scene, moving along now..

Grow up.

170. Keachick (Rose) - July 17, 2014

See ya, IDIC, Bye Bye – (as I wave my hands)

As for my oh so controversial and, supposedly, gratuitous scene – well, I could write it from the nuli’s point of observation and it would go something like this -

The nuli moves tentatively closer to the space station window and quietly observes these menosianoid like beings wandering around, apparently laughing and talking, some are a hot pool of water sitting, relaxing, dozing, smiling, chatting… Those who are not in the pool wear some form of loose artificial covering, but what this nuli’s observation, this is not the case for those in the water. The nuli notices an individual getting out of the tub and him reaching for a towel and tying it loosely about his waist. The nuli discerns that this individual could the male of this menosianoid type species. While the individual looks at the nuli, the towel loosens and falls to the floor which does not perturb this person, because he is now dry. The nuli observes this being in his natural state from head to foot. This is what the camera films – all that the nuli sees of this individual.

The scene is reversed. Before we saw Kirk and what he saw. In this scene, we see the nuli and what it sees.

Chris Pine – you only have two choices here. You decide…:)!

171. somethoughts - July 17, 2014

can we insert carol marcus and uhura hot tub drop towel scene? or is that something for wickedpictures? nude trek :)

172. Who cares - July 17, 2014

@Keachick. First off I provided links proving your statements about the number of soldiers fighting in Vietnam and relative numbers of casualties between US soldiers and NZ soldiers was wrong when you made the comment. Secondly, I was actually talking about the time you claimed that only the US and NZ sent soldiers to Vietnam, when actually there were soldiers from more than 10 nations sent there on both sides.

Thirdly, are you attempting to deny that you ranted for a solid week about Pine driving in LA after his DUI conviction in NZ? Because I can easily provide a link to where you made those comments if you need a reminder. Fourthly, the only reason Pine might have an issue driving in Canada is because Canada is part of the British Commonwealth like NZ is, the US is not, so all my previous statements on the subject stand.

Lastly, I used the scene from Logan’s Run as an example of changing standards for movie ratings in the US over time, in response to you stating above that “blah blah gets an R” etc, had nothing to do with what you described in your fantasy.

173. IDIC Lives! - July 17, 2014

Keachick,
Hello, I’m back! I didn’t say I was leaving entirely – far from it. I simply said I wasn’t bothering with your post #166.

I think you are entertaining quite a few people with your fantasy, do you really want to being doing this?

To forge onward, you said, “He is my husband, my friend, father of my children and like me, he is an individual. He does not tell me what he thinks I should or should not write, read or watch. I do not tell him what he may read, write or watch.”

I think you need to read more discerningly. I merely suggested that with your husband’s high IQ, he could explain to you what the definition of “lowest common denominator” is.”

You seem to hallucinate what others have said when in fact we said no such thing.This happens ALL the time and not just with me. It is admittedly unusual.

Onward with another subject: You said,
“Interestingly, Chris Pine has only been photographed once driving in LA at night since the ban placed on his INTERNATIONAL drivers permit. He has been to England and parts of Europe since 17 March this year (day he lost the use of the licence in NZ) but has only been seen as a passenger, not the driver, especially in England. In LA, he has been photographed walking/hiking or been seen in a car as a passenger.”

Goodness, you really keep a close track on the poor guy.

Finally, why is poor Pine’s “beautiful back” less bad, according to you, to look at than his buttocks? What’s wrong with his buttocks??

I’ll tell you why “buttocks” would be noticed first by most people, we see males with no shirt on. We see males with shorts on. But seldom do we see a full frontal or back view of a nude male in a public context.

However, you are, well you are Keachick, and you love Pine’s beautiful back first and foremost. Fantasy is great, have it your way.

I wonder where Chris and his beautiful back are right now? I bet you know.

174. Keachick (Rose) - July 17, 2014

Let me recap for all of you -

Who cares – July 17, 2014
#156- “@Keachick. If your husband really has an IQ of 150 then why does he never stop you from posting dumb things…”

Keachick (Rose) – July 17, 2014
” #156 – hmmm…He is my husband, my friend, father of my children and like me, he is an individual. He does not tell me what he thinks I should or should not write, read or watch. I do not tell him what he may read, write or watch. ”

Yes, I am Keachick – do I need to be anyone else? IDIC – “Fantasy is great, have it your way”. Thank you, I will!

I have no idea where Chris Pine is right now. However, it is not hard to find out where he has been (sort of) over the last four months.

“Finally, why is poor Pine’s “beautiful back” less bad, according to you, to look at than his buttocks? What’s wrong with his buttocks??”

I never wrote that it was “less bad”. This is what you wrote, IDIC. All I wrote was that my personal preference was to look at his back. I assume that there is nothing wrong with Pine’s buttocks. Why would assume something that I did not write?

Now kindly relieve yourself and me of your sneering sarcasm and pay more sympathetic attention.

175. Keachick (Rose) - July 17, 2014

Is nobody able to read what I have actually written here? Yet I am the one who is described as hallucinating. Let me recap – again -

#172 – “Thirdly, are you attempting to deny that you ranted for a solid week about Pine driving in LA after his DUI conviction in NZ?”

Please, re-read what I actually wrote –

#168 – “Interestingly, Chris Pine has only been photographed *ONCE driving in LA at night since the ban placed on his INTERNATIONAL drivers permit.”
It was this one time that I wrote about!
* My emphasis

This is also what you wrote -
“your inexplicable belief that New Zealand should have authority over drivers licenses issued in other nations?”
You did not specify which nations nor were you accurate about what kind of drivers license Chris or any other US citizen would need to have if they wanted to drive legally outside their own country.

This also applies to citizens of other countries as well. For example, I would need to have an International Drivers Permit if I wished to drive in the US, Canada, England, Europe wherever. This Permit would be issued on my current NZ drivers license, but I would be subject to the laws laid down by the country I was driving in and whatever regulations pertaining to the International Drivers Permit.

Actually, recently, I think it was Lostrod who was rude to me when he spoke of the much higher numbers of US soldiers killed in WW2 in comparison with the numbers of NZ soldiers killed fighting the same war. I wrote that it was unfair to just look at numbers without a context, as in the relative populations of the two countries in question.

The discussion concerning the Vietnam War occurred some time back. Why are you bringing this up now and moreover, what has it to do with my husband and your suggestion that he (having a higher IQ) should be telling me what I should write on this site and others?

This is what I also wrote –
#148 – “If my information is correct, remember rightly, I think that the MPAA (US)…”
That is, I have qualified my later statements and I think this is more in keeping with current attitudes than the example given of Logan’s Run which did allow for certain scenes not allowed for today in a PG-13 rated film. When you mention Logan’s Run, is this one of the two movies you are referring to?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075527/?ref_=nv_sr_2

176. Who cares - July 17, 2014

@Keachick. That may be what you said about Chris Pine on THIS THREAD, it is not what you said on the thread where the discussion was taking place the week Pine was convicted for DUI in NZ, which is where you spent a week ranting about it. As usual for you I see you are now pretending to never have made your previous comments. The reason BTW that I bring up stuff you said so long ago is because it is proof of my point that you are not only uniformed about the subjects you are trying to arguem but also that you are willfully ignorant on those subjects as well and refuse to actually do basic research for yourself, which would end these incidents of you spouting wildly innacurate “information”.

I mention your husband because frankly I wouldn’t let my other half look as foolish as you do here all the time, and I would stop her from posting such idiotic nonsense. There is only one Logan’s Run BTW, there are rumors of a remake in development but it has not been made yet.

177. Cygnus-X1 - July 17, 2014

159. TUP – July 17, 2014

Also, the people that tell you their IQ is 150 are the people that like have an IQ somewhere around half of that. Smart people dont need to tell anyone how smart they are.

Here was Stephen Hawking’s response to being asked his IQ by the NY Times:

HAWKING: I have no idea. People who boast about their I.Q. are losers.

He also answers a question about Trek transporter technology.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/12/magazine/12QUESTIONS.html

178. Keachick (Rose) - July 17, 2014

#176 – “it is not what you said on the thread where the discussion was taking place the week Pine was convicted for DUI in NZ, which is where you spent a week ranting about it.”

I have not denied anything. Yes, I was upset that Chris Pine was seen driving in LA leaving the Chateau Marmont licensed restaurant late at night soon after his conviction in NZ. I said that his conviction here in NZ appeared to matter little, if anything, in the US. I queried why this seems to be the case, because I did not know. I also felt that if it is the case, then it sucks. It means that an American citizen, using an international drivers permit, can drive recklessly, drink/drive, maybe cause an accident, but once he returns home, he can carry on, as if the crime and conviction never took place. That does not seem quite fair to me. It makes a mockery of similar countries’ legal systems.

I actually enquired as to what the law was in the US regarding those drivers found to have a blood alcohol content of 1.13…when the legal limit in both countries is .08.. I believe only one person from this site answered, saying that a first time offender would probably receive a suspended sentence of a similar(?) duration, which meant that the driver would be allowed to drive, but would have the hours restricted, ie not driving between hours of 10/11pm and 5am. If the person broke the law as regards driving, then he would lose the use of his license for a specified time, 24/7.

It does appear that the US does not recognize other countries rulings re driving offences placed on an international drivers permit belonging to a US citizen, but the reality was that no one seemed to be absolutely certain either way. I also mentioned about other Commonwealth countries are likely to accept the rulings of another within the Commonwealth, hence Chris’s fear about Canada.

If Chris Pine has had his license suspended (according to US law) as a first time offender because of the NZ conviction, I would deem that fair. However, I have no idea if this is the case. It also appears that no other US citizen on this site does either. I don’t live in the US. You do!

Stop trying to discredit what I write. Sometimes I don’t get it right, but then others don’t always get things right either. I do my best. That is all I can say. I cannot speak for others in this respect.

I posted a link to Logan’s Run (1977-78). Now here is a link to Logan’s Run (1976)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074812/?ref_=nv_sr_1

For Who cares who is very impatient with those who he thinks don’t check their facts and are uninformed all the time.

179. Keachick (Rose) - July 17, 2014

Stephen Hawking may say this now. However, there was a documentary made about his life screened many years ago. It told that Hawking’s IQ was over 200 until he had an accident and suffered a head injury. Once he had recovered, he took another IQ test and the score came back as 168. I do not know if he has taken another test since then and obviously I wouldn’t know what that score would be.

I was not boasting about my IQ. I mentioned my husband and late partner’s IQ as examples.

I will let my husband answer Who cares’ assertions, that’s if he can be bothered…

180. somethoughts - July 17, 2014

#177

too bad hawkings coming up short with the unified field theory, good book, if you scale back far enough the universe is just one particle of gods mind.

181. Trip - July 17, 2014

re: Bringing back Shatner

If the script could be worked to have Shatner in the film to where it didn’t detract from the movie too much, I would say go for it.

Shatner has played Captain Kirk since Generations (DirectTV commercial and the 2013 Oscars), granted these appearances were a bit out of character (more like Shatner than Kirk honestly). However, I think there are possibilities.

I remember X-Men 3 used “early footage” of Stewart and McKellan to make them appear younger in the opening sequence. I would assume that same technique could be used for Shatner – use footage of him from Star Trek VI and Generations to “create” Captain Kirk from his last canonical appearance.

An earlier comment suggested having Paramount hire a trainer for Shatner to drop about 20 lbs or so to “slim up”. The slimmer 83-year old Shatner could have the “generated” CG Kirk over him, but still do the voice work. You would then get a “younger” Shatner in the film, but could still work a scene in with him and Spock Prime “20 Years Later” and use Shatner as he currently is, more or less.

Just a thought.

182. Cygnus-X1 - July 18, 2014

I would not expect any 83-year-old actor, let alone one of Shatner’s esteem, to go on a special diet for an acting job at this point in his life.

183. somethoughts - July 18, 2014

No need to diet when hollywood can make gollum and apes special effects.

Have 83yr old Kirk sit on a bench and talk about his memories of 5 yr mission to strangers waiting for the public transit, dress up all actors from past series and have Shatner talk about that one mission where…ala forest gump

184. somethoughts - July 18, 2014

Shatner could play a 83yr old nukirk and just muse about his past glory days but in particular one mysterious mission that was never documented or reported to star fleet because…

185. somethoughts - July 18, 2014

so boborci after startrek2016 will you reboot tng and cast James Macavoy as Picard? and Tom Hiddleston as Data? :)

186. somethoughts - July 18, 2014

Mcavoy*

187. Captain Slow - July 18, 2014

@ 181 Trip

The problem with having a digital Shatner is that it kind of defeats the purpose of him being in the movie. The best way to include him would have been the scene that was written for ST09. But it’s too late for that now. In that scene Kirk was talking to Spock about their friendship, which now wouldn’t serve a purpose. So I just don’t see a need to bring him in.

188. TUP - July 18, 2014

When I read the Shatner scene for Star Trek, I was initially impressed and if that was the best they could do, so be it. But honestly, it would have meant Kirk was dead. it was not Shatner-as-Kirk as much as it was some past message from a long dead friend of Spock.

It all really goes to the lack of respect for the central character of the franchise. BR likes “Spock” more than Kirk. And I think its a dis-service. The perspective of things is different when Spock is positioned as the central character and given the best moments. “Young” Star Trek should be about Kirk’s journey mostly (if the writers are incapable of writing the journey’s of three characters at the same time).

Positioning Spock as the central character requires doing more with his personality which distracts from his historical character,. They make him more emotional, give him the love story, make him the hero, etc. its all wrong.

And thats why these guys cant write anything for Shatner. The “well he died in the movies so it would be too hard to explain how or why he’s not dead” is idiotic. Both movies were so convoluted requiring them to almost break the 4th wall in explaining the plots that its disingenuous to say a Shatner return would be too difficult to do.

I bet there are a lot of really creative and talented writers in Hollywood who would love to write a true James T Kirk story involving William Shatner. if Shatner appeared in the next film, barring guest appearances, he’d be the most decorated and acclaimed actor in the films and yet there is still this weird negativity about including him.

I would suspect certain people would have a sense of relief if Bill passed so they dont have to keep making increasingly lame excuses as to why they reject his offers to appear.

189. Captain Slow - July 18, 2014

@ 188 TUP

The thing is, Generations was made a very long time ago. And so you would have to explain away something that happened in a movie a large portion of the audience won’t have even heard of, and bring him back in time, to another universe, and explain why he’s older and fatter. And what would the point be?

Besides, it’s somewhat irrelevant now since they’re already writing the script and based on comments they’ve made it doesn’t sound like Shatner’s in it. So I’m pretty sure it’s too late now.

190. IDIC Lives! - July 18, 2014

#188TUP

I agree. There is a bizarre situation here: As I said before, no one sarcastically said how old and skinny Nimoy was in 2009 and STID. No one mentions his past personal devils or that he held out, did not sign up nearly as quickly as Shatner did for ST:TMP and Leonard generally knew how to be a hard-nosed hold out (and good for him).

And well these things should not be repeated over and over. We loved seeing Nimoy in 2009. In STID, he didn’t make it any worse than it was to begin with.

Shatner is still more active than Nimoy, possibly because he quit smoking earlier. Shatner is still out there doing creative projects, one man shows, and animal charities.

Shatner was/is the engine of TOS, always with tons of lines to be delivered so as to tell the story – often a difficult story to tell in 45 minutes.
These are stories we love. His energy moved each episode more than anyone else’s – with the possible exception of “Tholian Web.”
.
I won’t go on with this because the smart asses will happily just tear down Shatner in response to me. So the less I say, the less ammo I give them.
I wonder if it is simple jealousy.

Let’s see your smart asses when you are 83 years old, will you even be able to move? Or think? William Shatner is exceptional and always was.

191. TUP - July 18, 2014

I agree IDIC. The people that mock Shatner seem to forget he’s 83. Seriously how many 83 year olds does anyone know who are as active, witty, in-tune as Shatner. Is he fat? Come on…he’s 83 years old. He’s in great shape.

Does he look wrong to play a 60 year old James Kirk? I think that is open to debate actually. I think he looks as good or better than a lot of 60 year olds. Does he look older than Patrick Stewart? Is Stewart too old to play Picard.

The people against Shatner are just obsessed with the idea they are against Shatner. There are no legitimate reasons not to use him.

The film makers point out that Kirk died in Generations. Well, Spock died in WoK. Kirk died in STID and was resurrected ten minutes later. its an excuse.

If there is a need to explain Generations, I would counter with this – while it is true that most viewers of the new movie would not have seen or remembered Generations, keep in mind that the plot of Star Trek was so convoluted that it required Spock Prime to explain it half way through. The events that happened in the 24th century prior to Nero’s arrival in the past could have been their own movie and yet they explained it. Surely they can explain Kirk. If that means re-filming Generations’ death scene with Shatner today so his look “matches” so be it. If that means using CGI, so be it. If it means implying he aged while in the Nexus so be it.

If they use Q “rescuing” Kirk at the moment of his death, is there anything that precludes some sort of Q purgatory where Kirk continues to age? Is there no way, through an exercise regiment plus costuming/make-up etc to get to where the nit-pickers just arent that bothered by Shatner looking a bit older?

How many years passed between WoK and TVH and yet on-screen it was, what, a month? Did we complain? No.

William Shatner is unlikely to be working at age 100. For God’s sake, bring him back to the franchise that would NOT exist today without him. If Sean Connery came out and said “you know, Im very old and I know my end is coming but I would love to appear in a Bond film again” would they say “he’s too old and fat”? ofcourse not. Now now now, dont jump on me abotu Connery playing Bond because ofcourse he wouldnt but the character is different. My point is William Shatner has practically begged to be allowed into a Trek film and these arrogant film makers brush him off. Ridiculous.

As an aside, speaking of Bond the Bond story I want to see is that “James Bond” is a title, not a person with the storyline if an assasin who has tracked down the secret wherabuts of the former Bonds and is picking them off leading to the surviving “Bonds” to join forces.

192. Captain Slow - July 18, 2014

@ 191 TUP

“He’s in great shape.”

True. As Garfield the cat once said “Round is a shape.” Okay, that’s quite harsh. But I just don’t see him as Kirk anymore. People complained about having Nimoy in STID for no reason, so why is it suddenly a good idea to do the same for Shatner? What legitimate reasons are there to put him in the movie?

The reason for Spock Prime was to provide a link between the two universes and give Kirk and Spock a glimpse of what their lives could be. That’s been done, so what’s left for Kirk Prime to do?

193. TUP - July 18, 2014

@ 192 – who complained about Nimoy in STID? I think the complaints were limited to how Spock was used, not Nimoy appearing. He popped up for no reason whatsoever. It was a stunt scene that took us out of the film and provided nothing. I still enjoyed seeing him though.

It raises another issue with the change in Time Travel rules. They wanted to go with the multiple words theory because it meant the timeline could not be repaired and supposedly freed them of canon even though these writers are obsessed with canon. it also meant people would not wonder why they were working to send Spock back since there would be no back to go. ofcourse the fact this change to the rules violates every ounce of canon ever previously established didnt seem to matter. What happens with NuTrek has to go back in time for Whales?

Anyway, the idea that Spock Prime is there but wont tell them anything is laughable. Quinto skypes Prime on Vulcan and asks about Khan…and Prime replies. So is Prime committed to not divulging any secrets unless he’s asked? Why is he not a target of every intelligence organization in the universe?

Is he going to let millions of people die because he wont warn them of whats to come? These are deep moral issues that were far too complex and interesting for these hack writers to consider.

194. Captain Slow - July 18, 2014

@ 193 TUP

“I think the complaints were limited to how Spock was used, not Nimoy appearing. He popped up for no reason whatsoever. It was a stunt scene that took us out of the film and provided nothing. I still enjoyed seeing him though.”

That’s actually pretty much what I meant. And how I felt about the scene. But surely it’s better to have a short pointless appearance than a long one?

I genuinely don’t see a reason to put him in the movie. “I want to see him as Kirk one last time” isn’t good enough. TOS and TNG were constantly doing the whole “passing the torch” thing and it got old. First they brought in McCoy, which was good. But then they kept on doing it. Relics wasn’t bad, but I didn’t like Unification and almost no one likes Generations. The torch has been passed to the new crew, so to quote the Shatner scene written for ST09: It’s their turn now, Jim…

195. IDIC Lives! - July 18, 2014

#193 TUP “Is he going to let millions of people die because he wont warn them of what’s to come? These are deep moral issues that were far too complex and interesting for these hack writers to consider.”

Absolutely!! My thoughts exactly! Prime Spock is not gonna divulge anything about their future unless they ask.

That being said…. what a ham-fisted story, not even good fantasy, let alone science fiction, let alone Star Trek.

I wonder if this actually bothered Nimoy.

196. Keachick (Rose) - July 18, 2014

What about the prime directive? This is an alternate universe which is 129 years earlier than what it is in the prime universe. It is obvious that some things are not quite the same which means that history will not necessarily repeat itself.

Prime Spock is not saying much because of his adherence to the prime directive which clearly is part of this alternate Starfleet regulations. After all, Kirk not strictly adhering to the letter of the prime directive is what got him into trouble, among other things. He was accused of playing God…

If prime Spock reveals all that happens, particularly when the same events seem to be occurring in this alternate universe, then he is indicating a certain destiny, because of what he knows from his prime universe past.. This immediately throws yet another factor into the decision making process, (ie what we think we know has already happened/will happen), thus making the whole process more complicated. Kirk and co. would be constantly second-guessing themselves due to this other factor.

Having this extra information will not necessarily bring about a better result, because none of the exact conditions that brought about the outcomes that prime Spock remembers, are not present – ie the principle of conditioned existence.

197. Keachick (Rose) - July 18, 2014

edit: this should read, “…prime Spock remember, are present…”

The word “not” is deleted.

198. Cygnus-X1 - July 18, 2014

193. TUP – July 18, 2014
195. IDIC Lives! – July 18, 2014

Absolutely!! My thoughts exactly! Prime Spock is not gonna divulge anything about their future unless they ask.

You have to keep in mind that Spock Prime’s knowledge is of events which took place in a closely-related but different universe. The “timeline” of universes in which Spock Prime now resides, a.k.a. the “Alternate Universe,” has been deviating from the timeline of universes in which he resided prior to the black-hole universe-hop of ST09 (the Prime Timeline/Universe).

So, Spock’s knowledge is not necessarily applicable to the universe in which he presently resides. Some things will be similar or even the same—like Khan being a bad guy—but some things will be different. Kirk & co. can’t bank on Spock Prime giving them the correct answers about what’s to come.

199. Cygnus-X1 - July 18, 2014

P.S. Sorry, these terms might seem confusing, due to the MWI being a bit convoluted.

For our purposes herein, Alternate Reality, Alternate Universe and Alternate Timeline are all basically synonymous.

But, because the whole time-travel, universe-hop device in ST09 is premised upon MWI, there’s actually not just one, single “alternate” universe that we’re talking about, but rather an entire branch of alternate universes that split off from the Prime Timeline/Reality.

It’s easier to refer to the events in BR Trek as taking place in the Alt Universe vis-a-vis the Prime Universe, though it’s not technically in keeping with the MWI. It’s really an entire branch of universes that we’re talking about—the Prime branch vs. BR’s Alt branch. Think of it like a family tree, with the Prime branch and the Alt branch having a common ancestor but then diverging after that ancestor. That common ancestor existed just prior to the black hole opening up in ST09.

200. Disinvited - July 18, 2014

#198. Cygnus-X1 – July 18, 2014

True about Prime’s knowledge of history. However, he also posses knowledge of 100 years advanced alternative tech and sciences that should function just fine in the nuverse.

Also, should he just let NOMAD potentially wipe out billions or should he get it to somehow accept a NASA firmware update before it potentially “repairs” its prime directive of peace towards destruction? Same thing with the Planet killers. The onlies dying on Miri’s planet? Starship personnel deathtrap on planet Omega? Fix the Fabrini shields?

201. Cygnus-X1 - July 18, 2014

200. Disinvited – July 18, 2014

The TOS threats that you mention might never come to exist in the Alt Timeline.

202. Disinvited - July 19, 2014

#201. Cygnus-X1 – July 18, 2014

Possibly, but nevertheless all worthy of investigating with a plan B prepaired in advance.

And according to Prime’s analysis in THE DOOMSDAY MACHINE while it might be possible the planet killer isn’t charting a course through Federation space, it is still out there eating planetary systems. I believe the questions you were delving into was whether Prime still would have a compelling moral responsibility to stop it under the Nibiri/supernova reasonings, and that if he does, then sooner makes far more sense than waiting for later.

203. Disinvited - July 19, 2014

#201. Cygnus-X1 – July 18, 2014

Possibly, but nevertheless all worthy of investigating with a plan B prepared in advance.

And according to Prime’s conclusions in THE DOOMSDAY MACHINE while it might be possible the planet killer isn’t charting a course through Federation space, it is still out there eating planetary systems. I believe the questions you were delving into was whether Prime still would have a compelling moral responsibility to stop it under the Nibiri/supernova reasonings, and that if he does, then sooner makes far more sense than waiting for later.

204. Cygnus-X1 - July 19, 2014

203. Disinvited – July 19, 2014

Possibly, but nevertheless all worthy of investigating with a plan B prepared in advance.

Yeah, my guess is that Spock Prime would advise the Federation Council about the possibilities of such threats. He’s in an alternate and totally separate Universe-Timeline, so there’s no reason not to.

205. IDIC Lives! - July 19, 2014

Disinvited,

I agree. Khan happened in both universes so we can assume that other threats and discoveries from Prime Trek could/would happen in the nu-universe, just out of order – so to speak. (Ouch, the writers of nu-Trek let themselves in for headaches).

Cygnus X1, Yes, there are hops into “time” as in “Yesterday Is Tomorrow,” and then there are entire alternate universes but– does that ‘hop” not begin an alternate universe? I am not debating you, I am asking–if not you, then a quantum physicist somewhere. :-) (Or maybe you are one :-))

IOW, I don’t think we know if alternate realities just branch off endlessly in our consciousness or if there are alternates more “valid” (longer lasting), while others are just fragments.

There is the theory that there are loops in time which can be quantumly created – that’s what Kirk and company did in “Yesterday Is Tomorrow.” They took Captain Christopher into a loop in time, then deposited him back again at the beginning (and end) of the loop. Some people feel that UFO occupants do this to abductees (a different subject entirely, or is it? :-) )

When we dream, we create short threads of reality. They apparently come to an end when we wake up. So in practical terms, there are short realities or brief visits into other worlds but in the purest sense, each alternate reality possibly stretches onward, if theoretical physics can be believed.

206. Keachick (Rose) - July 19, 2014

#205 – “Khan happened in both universes so we can assume that other threats and discoveries from Prime Trek could/would happen in the nu-universe, just out of order – so to speak. (Ouch, the writers of nu-Trek let themselves in for headaches).”

Not really. The only headaches they have let themselves in for is having to deal with the facetious and nasty criticisms from audiences.

Prime Spock’s knowledge could be seen as a distraction and possibly dangerous one at that. This is why prime Spock prefers not to say anything, but I guess there will be times when he won’t be able to help himself. Then again, in that particular instant, he imparting whatever he remembers of a situation in the prime universe, could be part of *destiny*.

The truth is that whether there is another similar universe (or many) to the one that these nuKirk, nuSpock and others live in is neither here nor there. Frankly, so what?

If, for some strange, inexplicable reason, the two universes start to merge, then a problem could exist, but that has not happened and might never occur.

207. Cygnus-X1 - July 19, 2014

205. IDIC Lives! – July 19, 2014

Cygnus X1, Yes, there are hops into “time” as in “Yesterday Is Tomorrow,” and then there are entire alternate universes but– does that ‘hop” not begin an alternate universe?

The hop begins an alternate universe in ST09, but not necessarily in pre-BR Trek. The time-travel device used in ST09 is the MWI, which says that universes are constantly splitting off from each other at every quantum event. So, when the black hole opens up in ST09, that’s a set of quantum events that led to one or more universes splitting off from the Prime Universe-Timeline.

208. IDIC Lives! - July 20, 2014

#207 Cygnus X1

I understand. Thanks. Science fiction is thrilling when its foundation is laid in the exciting possibilities of science and then taken by a visionary into incredible realization and adventure.

209. IDIC Lives! - July 20, 2014

Cygnus X1
That is really the key as to why TOS/Star Trek inspired and inspires so many highly achieved people in the field of science and technology. It is why everything from the cell phone to forthcoming warp drive, relate back to Star Trek.

Gene Roddenberry found a way to present visionary science, science speculation, and science fiction to the masses through television. He planted the seeds; in receptive, creative, intelligent minds, they took root.

The people he reached include Trekkers who are not rocket scientists (most of us are not), but he also managed to influence those who do directly create the future – and also, who have created improvements in the present, like hand-held medical scanners. It is an awesome thing he did and must not be lost to mediocrity and to “frankly, who cares?”

210. IDIC Lives! - July 20, 2014

Good-bye James Garner.

You’ll always be Brett Maverick to me.

211. IDIC Lives! - July 20, 2014

SPACE: THE FINAL FRONTIER

45 years ago today, we walked on the moon!

http://abc13.com/science/astronauts-first-landed-on-the-moon-45-years-ago/202085/

Now, a new space race:

http://www.techtimes.com/articles/10632/20140720/uae-plans-mars-mission-in-2021-may-trigger-space-race-in-middle-east.htm

212. Flt Admiral William J King - July 20, 2014

Robert would at least make changes to the Enterprise please it hurts to see her like she is she needs a refit

213. Disinvited - July 21, 2014

#212. Flt Admiral William J King – July 20, 2014

Considering the beating she’s received in the past two films which in the story’s time frame weren’t that far apart, it is hard to imagine that Scotty hasn’t taken the opportunities this has given him to put his “stamp” upon her. Heck, given the top secret Vengeance isn’t so top secret anymore, you’d think every ship in the fleet would be clamoring for “upgrades”?

214. IDIC Lives! - July 21, 2014

#212 and 213
Does nuTrek care about the Enterprise as an entity? We know that ships do take on a personality and have done so since humans began sailing the seas. “My ship, she is a good ship!”

Profound then that nuTrek does not care anymore about The Enterprise (which I agree, in nuTrek is not the beauty she was), than it does in creating intelligent science fiction plots.

Of course, as Keachick #206 says above, “Frankly, so what?” This seems to be the slogan of nuTrek.

So many inconsistencies and absurdities and the response is, “Frankly, so what? We don’t care as long as S/U can smooch in public and Kirk/Carol can go at it.”

On another thread, Cygnus X1 just commented on the oddity of Khan trying to get 72 torpedoes out of Marcus’ Star Fleet with their cryo-units which Khan somehow installed all by himself in the first place. Sure a big question crosses the viewer’s mind but then the “unrelenting action” (quoting Chris Pine here), makes you drop the subject and just try to–survive, so to speak.

So, what is wrong with saying, “Frankly, so what?” to the long list of plot holes and ridiculous stuff in STID?

It is the difference between mediocrity, just another popcorn summer Gijoe, blockbuster film and not one of the most popular one at that——, and actual quality.

Here are big budgeted films, a chance for Star Trek to be brilliant, to achieve the excellence it deserves. Sure, TOS was often not “excellent,” they were hassled for time, extremely low budget, a weekly grind for 3 years and yet they turned out SOME episodes which are excellent.

The nu-universe has gotten itself into a bind in so many ways. Perhaps the answer is indeed to say, “So what?” and move on.

But then let’s MOVE ON and make the next film real quality! It should make sense on a science speculation/plot basis and on a character basis.

Please let McCoy and Spock exchange intelligent dialogue, for instance. They had NO interaction in STID. No metaphors, at this point nuTrek is mocking, not saluting, the McCoy character and thus is getting it wrong too.

Let The Enterprise travel into deep space.

Let Kirk BE the captain of the Enterprise, his lady whom he loves.

And let the Enterprise look like the ship we have loved for all these years, she deserves this much. You have pounded her almost to oblivion.

Let her at least BE The Enterprise now.

215. TUP - July 21, 2014

I am constantly mind-blown by keachick’s shallow level of comprehension of all things Trek.

Spock Prime is staying silent because he doesnt have knowledge of “this” universe? Spock Prime is adhering to the Prime Directive? WTF.

Firstly, the Prime Directive no longer applies. If Spock Prime tells them something to prevent a tragic event, the tragic event still happens, just not in this universe.

This is the entire issue with MWI – there are ZERO consequences to anything. They could have Kirk beheaded in the next film, shrug and then have us continue watching from the universe where he wasnt beheaded. ZERO consequences.

And that reinforces the underlying issue with these writers is they dont actually give a flying f@ck about these characters. Kirk could be cast as a woman. Spock could be a Gorn. As long as the names are the same they think the fans will swallow it. And if we don’t, its because we as fans are “nutty” as Orci said. It’s nutty to expect quality writing and a general respect for the 50 year old franchise?

216. IDIC Lives! - July 21, 2014

#215 TUP
Agreed, no consequences in nuTrek. No consistency, no coherency.

Anyone who thinks the lowest common denominator, which I taught to students in second grade, and Relativity are “sort of the same” or “whatever, so what?”–

– Is likely not to get all things Trek.

That’s ok, but to be lectured and name-called by her, gets very old.
She just called me a malevolent spreading cancer, that was truly—bizarre.

217. TUP - July 21, 2014

Yeah but she’s an idiot. So what does she know.

218. Keachick (Rose) - July 21, 2014

@Admin – Would you PLEASE censure IDIC Lives for misquoting and indeed attributing to me/others things that I/we never wrote.

Why do you, as moderators, allow this to continue? A person should be able to come and post on this site without having their comments misquoted, taken out of context or worse still, have someone actually attribute what they themselve have said previously, to another person or people in general? So, is it alright for someone, IDIC to misrepresent what others have written and malign them in the process for ideas those people never presented in the first place?

This obsession IDIC has with putting others down through deliberate misrepresentation and sarcasm is not healthy. Can you continue to ignore in the hope that she will cease, because clearly she has not?

An example, from post #214 –
“Of course, as Keachick #206 says above, “Frankly, so what?” This seems to be the slogan of nuTrek.
So many inconsistencies and absurdities and the response is, “Frankly, so what? We don’t care as long as S/U can smooch in public and Kirk/Carol can go at it.”

No one has actually said that or inferred it. Those who have been supportive of the S/U relationship have not used terms like “smooch in public” or “”Kirk/Carol can go at it”. NO ONE, other than IDIC, has inferred this, as quoted above. Not me. Not Marja. Not others like Jemini.

This is all about IDIC’s disingenuous interpretation of what other posters have written since the release of STID 14 months ago.

Enough already!

219. Admin - July 21, 2014

Keachick

It may be best for you to stop taking everything so seriously and personally. We really don’t have time to get into all these flare-ups and invariably they generally involve you complaining about one poster or another.

Everyone else, maybe stop replying to Keachick.

Chill pills all around please

220. Keachick (Rose) - July 21, 2014

IDIC – It was you who used the term “lowest common denominator” to describe my view of Star Trek. You knew exactly what you meant by use of this term and it had nothing to do with maths.

I am sick of you. Yes, this behaviour of yours really does border on malevolence, for want of a better description. If anyone is “out of kilter”, it is you and always has been.

This is what you were referring to (as in how you described me and my views):
“Lowest Common Denominator
In relation to people, they are the simplest group in a population. They have the simplest opinions, the simplest views and the simplest lifestyles. They are the unsophisticated (which is not correlated to the amount of happiness they have – in fact, living a simple life may make you even more happy than living a sophisticated one). Because these people do not think as much as a sophisticated person, they tend to be more naive and more gullible to gut feelings, and the ingrained culture and social laws that are around them. Their trust is easily earned.

In terms of politics, this can be taken advantage of when politicians use their persona and the gut feelings of their audience to gain followers, even when their policies and views might be to their disadvantage.
Those GOP candidates like to target the lowest common denominators in each state because it’s easy followers for them. I mean, who would follow Rick Santorum because of a sweater vest?”

This is the mathematical definition –
http://www.mathsisfun.com/definitions/least-common-denominator.html

Of course, you, being you, with all your education, knowledge, comprehension, knew that already. Yet, you chose to be inaccurate and mean spirited, just like TUP and Who cares. But then again, who cares? It does seem that no one on this site cares…

221. Keachick (Rose) - July 21, 2014

Admin – It is lucky that it is not you being the target, otherwise you may feel otherwise. Thank you…for what, I am not quite sure.

Yes, I have been the one “complaining”.

Good one – further victimize the person who already feels badly and unfairly treated by another. I guess this is just a sign of the times…:(

222. IDIC Lives! - July 21, 2014

#219 Admin.

I will try my hardest not to respond to Keachick. Thanks.

223. Keachick (Rose) - July 21, 2014

@Admin – “Everyone else, maybe stop replying to Keachick.”

Who is “everyone else”? A little clarity, please

BTW, I have complained about one poster and the complaints have been recent.

Yes, my husband says that I am a bit too “thin skinned” and need not be so “intense” in how I write. I wonder – is being “thin skinned”, as in being overly sensitive at times a crime?

He also feels that use of terms like “malevolent” “spreading like a cancer” could be too intense and just give others even more ammunition to use against me. I guess for me it is case of “damned if I do, damned if I don’t”.

224. TUP - July 22, 2014

HAHAHAHAHAHA

225. Who cares - July 25, 2014

@Keachick. Everything I said is true and accurate. If you think one of my comments is in error then I must inform you that once again you are completely wrong, so completely wrong that your statements make you sound like a tin-foil hat wearing lunatic.

226. Keachick (Rose) - July 25, 2014

Yet more distortions and abuse…

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