CBS Considering New Animated Trek Series For The Web December 13, 2006
by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: New Animated Trek, Uncategorized , trackback
Star Trek may be set for a comeback into yet another arena, this time in the 2nd dimension. TrekMovie.com has learned that there is a new animated Trek project under consideration at CBS, but it has yet to get the green light. The series would most likely be broadcast on the web and be made up of ‘Clone Wars’ like 6-minute mini episodes. The yet-to-be-named project was originally pitched by long-time Trek producer David Rossi (well known to TrekMovie.com readers as a producer on Trek Remastered) along with his producer/writer partners Doug Mirabello and José Muñoz. Rossi sat down with TrekMovie.com for an exclusive look at how he and his partners hope to create a different kind of Trek set in the 26th century.
The idea for a new animated Trek started back around the time that Star Trek Enterprise was cancelled. Rossi and his partners didn’t buy into the notion that Star Trek ‘needed a rest’. "We wanted to spark a little life into Star Trek and to keep it alive in people’s eyes," explains Rossi. They knew CBS and Paramount weren’t going to be keen on a new (and very expensive) live action show so they decided that animation was the way to go. Their first notion was to do a show set in the Original Series era (but not on the Enterprise), however that notion didn’t sit well with the people at CBS. Rossi then took the advice he got from LeVar Burton on how ‘Star Trek should always be about moving forward and what is next in the human adventure.’ So the team came up with the notion of taking a big leap forward and setting a show 150 years after the time of Picard and Star Trek Nemesis, but in a very different and somewhat dark Trek universe. CBS were more open to that idea and over the last year and a half have asked the team (now formed into Zero Room Productions) to flesh out their idea. Although CBS have not committed to the series, they have asked the team to develop test artwork and scripts for 5 mini episodes.
Test art shows that this Trek is kind of scary
Trek’s darker future…with a spark of hope
The Zero Room team felt that the time was right for a new approach to Trek. The setting is the year 2528 and the Federation is a different place after suffering through a devastating war with the Romulans 60 years earlier. The war was sparked off after a surprise attack of dozens of ‘Omega particle’ detonations throughout the Federation creating vast areas which become impassible to warp travel and essentially cut off almost half the Federation from the rest. During the war the Klingon homeworld was occupied by the Romulans, all of Andoria was destroyed and the Vulcans, who were negotiating reunification with the Romulans, pulled out of the Federation. The setting may seem bleak and not very Trek-like, but that is where the show’s hero Captain Alexander Chase comes in. Relegated to border patrol, Chase is determined to bring the Federation (and a ship called Enterprise) back to the glory days of seeking out new life and new civilizations.
The parallels with the real world are obvious. The view is that to be relevant Trek cannot skirt around issues. Rossi explains: "couching big social issues in allegories so they are more palatable is kind of passé now. Today shows deal with these issues head on, so we decided to make the entire show an allegory. The premise is an allegory for the post-9/11 world we live in. A world of uncertainty and fear." In addition to the attempt at relevance, the Zero Room team want to incorporate other modern techniques. The show will have an overall ‘arc’ related to the mystery of who perpetuated that ‘Omega’ attack which sparked the Romulan War (turns out it wasn’t the Romulans…ooops). As one might imagine, all of the above back-story is quite a lot to get across in animated mini episodes, but that is where the web comes in. On StarTrek.com there will be a special sub-site for the show with crew logs and detailed histories of the Federation to get viewers up to speed on what has been going on since Picard’s day. The team also want to tackle the issue of how Trek does not usually lend itself to the action-oriented world of animated shows like Star Wars: Clone Wars. "We won’t have long diatribes, we are utilizing a clipped kind of writing and the editing is frenetic," explains Rossi. The overall approach is hoped to make the show have a wider appeal than Trek’s last foray into the world of animation.
Captain Chase…bringing back the old days
A conflicted ship and crew
This new animated series would take place again on a ship called Enterprise, but the old girl has seen better days. Captain Chase’s Enterprise will be a ‘Bismarck Class’ heavy cruiser from the Romulan war and a bit out of date. Her mission will be merely patrolling the border, but Chase chose the Enterprise for a reason. As a student of the Federation’s glory days, he wants to have the Enterprise reclaim her legacy. Although they are not ready to share artwork, Rossi says the ship will be very different than familiar saucer/hull/nacelle designs while still being recognizable as a ‘Star Trek’ ship. Her crew will be a collection of humans and aliens including a chief engineer named ‘Mr. Zero’ who wears an environmental suit to survive. Life on the ship will mirror that of the Federation itself. "The Captain is more forward thinking and wants to go out and do some exploring but half the crew will be against that and want to just protect the border," says Rossi. Leading the ’stay the course’ faction will be Chase’s first officer, Commander Barric Holden who wants a command of his own and be a bit resentful of the his new captain. Rounding out the ‘big 3′ will be Lt. Kaylen Donal, a tough-as-nails security chief whose team of red shirts are all linked with Borg technology implants called ‘Biomechanical Utility Grafts or ‘BUGs’. The Zero Room team want to see this security squad kick some butt and not just be cannon fodder. Rossi draws the distinction with previous security personnel "they aren’t the hapless pajama wearing guys who get vaporized every time…these are going to be very thoughtful clever bad-ass soldiers."
Cmdr. Holden and Lt. Donal fill out the ‘troika’ for the new animated Trek
A new look and a look back
When choosing a style for their new animated series, Zero Room chose a 2D style that was both modern and yet nostalgic. The designs are influenced by the work of Darwyn Cooke who made the recent retro-cool New Frontier comic series. "Although the show is set in the future the designs are founded in TOS, it is a throwback that is also looking forward," explains Rossi. From the designs of the uniforms to the phasers there is certainly an Original Series feel to the work, possibly harkening back to their original idea to set the series in the TOS period. Jeff Parker, an accomplished comic book artist currently working on Marvel’s on X-Men, has done most of the character design work. In addition to Jeff there are some others artists who have done work on the project and Zero Room are looking to expand the team as well. [If you are a 2D artist interested in getting involved, Zero Room do take submissions. Inquiries can be sent to zeroroomprods@gmail.com]
a nostalgic look for the uniforms and props
So what is next?
One thing that should be made clear is that it is entirely unclear if, when or how this animated series will be seen. If the project gets the go ahead it will most likely be seen on StarTrek.com, however the show would be made in a way so it can be also shown on broadcast TV as well as DVD. This is somewhat similar to the Star Wars: Clone Wars animated series which was shown on StarWars.com as well as the Cartoon Network and then put out on DVD. One of the big hurdles seems to be the convoluted nature of the Trek license sharing deal between the former Viacom partners CBS and Paramount. Apparently when your name is not J.J. Abrams it is a bit difficult to work a new Trek project through the system. Currently the project is in a holding pattern and may remain so until the release of Star Trek XI in 2008. If CBS and Paramount want Star Trek to compete with other franchises like Star Wars, Superman, and Batman, then it makes sense for it to have an animated component.
Only time will tell if this project will see the light of day or end up like ‘Star Trek Phase II’ and other ‘Treks that could have been’. It is certain that this different take on the Trek universe will spark debate, but the people behind it are to be credited for attempting a daring take on the venerable franchise. The project does have the support of one of Star Trek’s most respected designers (and Trek’s semi-official historian) Mike Okuda (although he works with Rossi on Trek Remastered, Okuda is not inovled with the new animated project). Okuda tells TrekMovie.com "the concept offers fresh, exciting characters and stories, and the visuals promise to be cool…I hope it happens."
more sketches from the new animated Trek
(click to enlarge)
EDITOR’S NOTE: I would like to thank David Rossi for taking the time out to talk to TrekMovie.com about this new project, especially since this week he and his lovely wife Lili welcomed a new Trekkie in the world. A big TrekMovie.com welcome to Dave and Lili’s new daughter Frankie Lu Rossi.
Comments»
I just bought the animated DVD’s. Pretty cool, for sure. But I thought, could they not completely re-do the animation with the same voice actors? It would be a breeze and look fantastic.
I dont like it.
The adventures of the Battlestar Enterprise have zero interest for me.
Sorry.
^^^^^
I’m not so close minded as to say this wouldn’t satisfy some fans appetite for something new in the Trek universe that defies convention and where the show has been before, but this is just entirely too much of a stretch for me, too related to Battlestar Galactica.
Roddenberry postulated humanity survives, that is the fundamental appeal of Star Trek, here is yet another post armageddon scenario of picking up the peices of a calamity and having a semblance of normality.
Why is everything doom and gloom today and distorted with a cynical view?
What happened to bright, cheery, even naive optimism. That is what Star Trek was always all about. And just as in 66, the world today NEEDS that unbiased, untainted optimism.
If I wanted to see this shit I’d turn on the world news.
This sounds like another very interesting new Trek project, but just like Trek XI - it has to be done in the right way!
I would much rather a TV Animated Series from the TOS movie (not ST:TMP but rather ST:TWOK) era.
Seems like those that favor a Capt Sulu series woudl best be served by that idea. Plus, since Shatner and a few key TOS persons are still “VOICEs amongst us” we might yet see Kirk and Co. in their prime.
We still keep going further into the future and leaving vast voids of time un filled. GOLDER OPPORTUNITY here FOLKS!!!
What say you?
I think it sounds great. The idea is fresh. It would be a great way to bring some new fans in, and those that have gone astray. Having watched the Animated series recently, I’ve been craving new Trek, in any form.
I think a new animated Star Trek could only succeed if it’s one thing…FUNNY! Star Trek, as new animated cartoon, could be very enjoyable as a light hearted parody or spoof of our favorite tv show.
Go to this site for a perfect example of how funny a cartoon version of Trek could be. It’s hilarious! - stonetrek.com
Has any cartoon, or animated series ever succeeded as a serious, dramatic show? I can’t think of any. Someone here correct me if I’ve missed one…
Maybe I’m wrong, but I think a dramatic, serious animated series will only appeal to a very small segment of ST fans. That doesn’t sound like a formula for the studios making alot of money, but maybe there’s more interest out there than I realize.
For myself, if it’s going to be anything like the animated series from 1973, I will respectfully say, “no thanks.”
Long live Spock and Quark!
Mike :o
Unless they put sufficient resources into this project. Cash and sem-decent story lines (for a cartoon) of course then they just better forget it. IF I really want to see 2nd rate animation then all I have to do is watch the poorly made cartoons that are being churned out of Asia and elsewhere.
INSTEAD….why don’t they put in some good stories (like Jonny Quest) was in their first season? As some of you may know….that series was never cancelled - they just couldn’t afford to produce it anymore so they quit producing it. Now….that would be a cartoon worthy of anyones time and effort both in making and watching the final product. If they chose to make it in the lines (quality) of some recent films like The Incredibles…..then we’d all be in for a pleasant surprise. A nice idea….
#7–No, no, no, no, no. Trek died because it became a joke in the minds of too many people. We need projects that make Trek relevant and interesting again, and this new animated series might work, if handled well. At least it seems like a step in the right direction.
But if Trek can’t do anything other than mock its own conventions, it’ll just damage itself even further in the public’s mind–they’ll think “Star Trek = Lame Crap.”
As for any cartoon succeeding as a dramatic, serious toon? Try Bruce Timm’s “Batman.”
My only question is,
in the above picture why is Captain Pursue holding a Martian War Machine head from George Pal’s 50’s classic, and why is it not incinerating his head off?
Very interesting. I’d watch. What the hell?
This is around the time of the 1701-J i think.
[…] Sigh. […]
People who bash animation (cartoons) are akin to people who bash science fiction. Kind of discouraging to see it get bashed here.
Good God look at that Phaser!! FINALLY beefy guns to spread our peaceful mission LOL. That gun is wicked cool! And I love that they call the security guards “The Red Shirts.” Nice tip of the hat to those poor lost souls from a more dangerous era LOL!
#9 Here, here. The Bruce Timm Batman is VERY well done. How wicked would it be to see nasty aliens done with animation. If one of the producers of Trek Remastered is behind it then so am I. The care and reverence Rossi has for Trek is evident from the fantastic work CBS is turning out. I wonder if Okuda is part of this?
I hope this idea dies a slow and painful death at the hands of Regulan Blood Worms.
“…we are utilizing a clipped kind of writing and the editing is frenetic,” explains Rossi.
Yeccccch! There is enough of that garbage already.
Nothing against an animated series, but this has no reason to be called Star Trek other than wanting to use a proven brand name.
The more I read about this kind of stuff, the more I will stick with the 79 episodes and the Filmation animated series.
The concept and the art respectively for this new cartoon is going to have to be loud and out of place in the trek universe. That’s not to say I approve, but even though we adults will certainly tune in to see some new trek, no one will fund an animated series that’s not AIMED AT KIDS.
This means selling toys, video games, and cereal.
We can always make the argument that children are smarter than we give credit, and that kids would be just as content with a naive, nonviolent animated trek that is more akin to TNG than to G.I. Joe, but you’ll never convince anyone with the production money to take the risk on making toy communicators rather than toy phaser bazookas (or whatever).
Let’s just hope it doesn’t go the way of “The Batman”, you know, the new one that sucks ass, not the superior Bruce Timm one.
#9.. I think Trek is far from dead, in any sense of the word! It’s on hiatus now and maybe that’s a good thing. And why are so many fans against a humorous look at Trek? Did the movie “Spaceballs” destroy the Lucas Star Wars empire? No way!
One of the things I like about Bill Shatner is the fact that he both respects high quality science fiction, as a writer, actor and director, yet doesn’t take Star Trek as seriously as many of his fans do. I find that balance is both healthy and refreshing.
The Star Trek universe is very large indeed, and maybe that’s one of the problems. Maybe it has become too big with an emphasis more on quantity vs quality. Maybe there have been too many tv shows, too many movies, too many books, too much Star Trek in general over the years for the good of the franchise.
Like most people here I want more Trek in the future, but I don’t want CBS and Paramount to milk the franchise into the ground either. To me, an animated series will not make Trek “relevant and/or interesting” to most fans. I think it will only appeal to a very small minority of die hard fans the “love everything trek.” Maybe I’m wrong, but the first attempt at animating Star Trek was not exactly a rousing success. (Unless you consider a one year run and 22 episodes a success.)
In my opinion, Star Trek belongs in the live action arena only- live action TV and movies. If they are going to go animated, why not go comic books too.
There will always be a market for anything Star Trek, but I really wonder how large the audience is for a another animated series. You named one serious animated series that was successful, but I could name dozens of “comedy based animated series” that succeeded, even in prime time!
Star Trek has had an incredible run, but no show, no movie series will last forever. I hope that if Star Trek XI is both a critical and commercial success, the franchise ends. I really, really, really want Star Trek to go out on top! For me Star Trek ended in 1969, and anything produced after the original show ended has just been a nice added bonus, especially DS9.
Merry Christmas everyone!
Mike :o
It’s an interesting concept, but I, too, feel that it unnecessarily eschews Roddenberry’s original concept for the show.
In the ’60s, there was Vietnam and the threat of global thermonuclear war, and yet ‘Star Trek’ provided an optimistic, hour-long break from the days events. Surely intrepid Capt. Chase could have adventures in a more optimistic future. However, I understand that the idea of an optimistic series may not fly in the board room.
I will say this: my favorite recent Trek series is DS9, so I’m certainly open to “gritty” ‘Star Trek.’ I hope it’s done well.
#7 - The Japanese have a long history of creating dramatic, successful animated series that are very popular over here. Check out Cartoon Netowrk late at night or look on the shelves at any Best Buy store. The anime section is larger ththe science fiction area in most of their stores.
As far as American television goes, no. Americans have this grating attitude that animated means Bugs Bunny or Goofy and has to be humorous in nature. The only successful American animation that are serious and popular are full length feature films.
#18 Yes Anime has been popular since the 1990’s. I never found Japanese animation very compelling, but many younger viewers love it and prefer it over the old time cartoons I grew up with. Time will tell if it isn’t just a passing fad with American viewers…
You are right, most Americans associate animation with comedy and family movies. Not a bad thing I guess, because it’s been so successful over the decades.
Maybe a more interesting Star Trek animated series concept would have computered generated animation featured in such movies as “Toy Story,” and other Pixal features. That would be quite impressive, but I’m sure quite expensive too…
Mike :o
Given the excellent work on shows like the Batman/Superman animated series of the 90s, an intelligent cartoon series could work very well.
Setting it in the 26th-ish century would work quite nicely with a live action series set in the 23rd century.
I’d also like to see the classic animated series, which I’m working my way through on DVD at the mo, released with new animation, new music and maybe a couple of new voices (perhaps by actors from later Treks) to add some variety to the constant recognisable ‘guest’ voices of Majel Barrett and James Doohan.
If we can have Star Trek Remastered, why not Star Trek Re-Animated?!
Golly this I said earlier today that this is an intersting time to be a Trek fan. Wasn’t kidding was I? :shock:
I agree with the earlier writer that said that one of the elements of Star Trek that has set it apart from other science fiction like Star Wars and Galactica is its vision of the future. Thoughtful, good science fiction would be appreciated and remembered. Rushing something to take advantage of Star Wars Clone Wars successes or the interest being currently shown in Galactica would be sad, and probably unsuccessful. I think if done well, and with a serious effort to tell Trek-stories of success of the human spirit and bold explorations of uncharted territory an animated serious has great potential to raise the bar for Trek lore. Remember, the Star Trek Online MMOG is scheduled to appear on the store shelves soon and it primarily is an animated version of Star Trek….
>What happened to bright, cheery, even naive optimism. That is what Star >Trek was always all about. And just as in 66, the world today NEEDS that >unbiased, untainted optimism.
I agree. For more than a decade I have seen the ever increasing pushing of not just creatives, but parts of fandom as well to turn Trek into something it is not - a dark and dystopian action show brimming with conflict. I think those people got it totally wrong - in the 1960s, the situation was very much comparable to now, and yet, at that time TOS offered kind of an alternative view to the uncertain future people were facing, providing reassurance that it would not just go on, but become better and better. Given its stance opposition by all those pragmatists out there, back then and now, this kind of optimistic future is still way more daring than any dark scenario could be, and if Trek gives in to the latter, this will be the *real* death of the legend, because then it will be indistinguishable from the Farscapes and Fireflies and Battlestar Galacticas of this world. But I guess this is what happens when you have to cater to majority taste, which unlike the 1960s doesnt seem very open about anything but “gloom and doom” these days anymore.
No offence to those who have put work into this, but with the details and grim art provided I sincerely hope this show wont get the green-light. It’s a dead end.
Sod animated trek, get CBS Paramount to put money into the Star Trek New Voyages fanfilms so they can ramp up production and fill in the final years of the original series.
Maybe they could get a CGI department to due some facial augmentation so that it would look like the original actors continued their show.
The stories the New Voyages Team have done so far are great and would literally bring us back to the original series.
No interest. I don’t think these people realize that Kirk and crew are the characters that made Trek so great. I don’t care about some wacky future with some characters I don’t know. At this point, that’s been done, no matter what era it’s set in. It’s still a copy of a copy.
You don’t see constant cartoons based on the great grandson of Superman. You see Superman.
If they’re going to do an animated series of all things, I want something based on Kirk and his crew. Not in the TOS ERA and another crew. KIRK and the Enterprise.
Anything else is just boring.
This would be an excellent re-boot, with a chance of relevance and not the incestuous inside-looking continuity concerns. Do it as live action!
what a great idea! The art work looks great and the story idea makes me excited. As a 38 year old, I prefer animation over most live action. It’s good to see some new and exciting ideas! Rock On!!!!
Why do they keep going so far ahead?
It’s hard enough trying to figure out what the 23rd century would actually be like…………THE 26TH CENTURY?
C’mon.
CBS can try all they like to cash in on the TREK cash cow but unless they create interesting, riveting, characters like the well know triumvirate KIRK-SPOCK-McCOY, it ’s destined for failure.
The phasers look like some cheesy Flash Gordon ray gun for God’s sake. I would think by the 26th century you would be able to mount a mind controlled phaser on your finger or something.
That’s 500 years in the future folks.
Do you think in 1506 they knew there would be cars, jets, telephones, electricity, computers, space travel and George W Bush?
Not bloody likely…………….; )
I like it. It reminds me a bit of the Gene Rodenberry “Andromeda” series. I believe Andromeda was originally a trek series pitch, since they couldn’t do it as a trek series they changed aspects of it.
I don’t think that Trek is necessarily about one thing. I keep reading - its a positive vision of the future. Well, not everything in the Trek universe is positive. Edith Keeler dies, wars happen, Kirk kicks the Klingon off the mountain and into the lava, the borg are scary.
Some people just have an idealized rememberance of the past and want a movie or tv show to give them that same feeling of nostalgia that they get when they clutch their beloved DVD’s in their hands.
Star Trek can be many things - scary, funny, dramatic, powerful, thrilling. Its a wide canvas.
Hey MichaelJohn,
Check this out…
http://www.ptrope.com/Star_Trek_Reanimated/
Wow, that looks pretty interesting Spockboy…CGI is really approaching photographic realism!
I’m curious to see the end product, as it certainly won’t look at all like the original cartoon.
Just think, in a few years CGI will become so good that they will be able to duplicate the original actors from TOS and make realistic new episodes. I’m not sure if that is a good thing or not, but I don’t think it’s too far fetched, or too far in the future.
Thanks for the link!
Mike :o
It sounds…to be blunt, crap. I’m as much as fanboy as anyone but look at those phasers and the uniforms. Stepping forwards while stepping backwards? WTF? And the captain’s motivation? But…I’ll wait to judge.
I’d much rather have an animated continuation of Enterprise or something a little less ridiculous.
I wish them luck and good fortune but… I’m just not feelin’ it. :(
..well it’s certainly interesting. Not too crazy about the art…that phaser is an abomination….or the premise, and clone wars was a pain in the butt to watch until they finally got it all together on one DVD, so I don’t think I would go through the trouble to find it and watch it on the web. Who knows, the folks that love anime might eat it up, but it’s certainly not my cup of tea.
Well if it was a proper anime, then it might be more interesting. At least animes have specutacular artwork.
*spectacular even.
I think there has to be a distinction made between a one dimentional “flat” Star Trek animated cartoon, like the orginal, and a 3D Computer generated animated series that has the look of a modern Pixar studio release. They are both referred to as “animation,” but only one can be considered a “cartoon.” There’s really no comparison between the two..
I realize that the pictures that are posted above are just preliminary drawings, but I hope they don’t represent what the animated series would look like. If so, it will just look like another Saturday morning cartoon.
I honestly could care less about another animated ST series, but it they do spend the time and effort to make one, I hope they will incorporate all the updated CGI tools available today to make the animation enjoyable for a broader audience.
Well off to work…see yah later Treksters!
Mike :o
Congratulations to Davis Rossi and his wife on their new baby. And I too want to echo Anthony’s thanks for letting us have an exclusive peek at this new project.
I’ll judge the show if/when it is broadcast.
Great idea! :-)
Hey!! This is really COOL!! I love it!
It isn’t Star Trek’s “optimism” that made it great. It’s the idea that in the future the Carl Sagans of the universe will be in charge and successfully run society on the principles of secular humanism and science while the George Bush and Dick Cheneys of the universe are Klingons. Star Trek is about the promise of a new Enlightenment, not the depressing notion of another Dark Ages.
I’ve got no problem with the aspect of dark Trek, it’s just everything else. The artwork, the characters, those phasers.
[…] J. J. Abrams scheint nun bekannt gegeben zu haben, dass Star Trek XI im Winter 2008 released wird. Diese Verschiebung von Sommer auf Winter wird dem Produktionsprozess sicherlich zugute kommen und entspricht auch Abrams’ Wunsch nach mehr Entwicklungszeit. Des Weiteren wurde bekannt, dass bald eine neue Star Trek-Zeichentrickserie starten wird. Diese spielt im Jahr 2528, also im 26. Jahrhundert, und repräsentiert uns mittels 6-minütiger Mini-Episoden eine wesentlich düstere Zukunft als wir es gewohnt sind. Man will damit wohl den derzeitigen Sehgewohnheiten entgegenkommen und den für Star Trek so wichtigen Realitätsspiegel zurückgeben. Diese Episoden werden wohl auf startrek.com downzuloaden und online anzuschauen sein. Eine konzeptionelle Umsetzung für TV oder DVD kann nicht ausgeschlossen werden. Das Design der Serie ist Retro, erinnert ein wenig an die Konzeptzeichnungen aus Star Trek: Online und kombiniert Elemente aus TOS und TNG. Der Held dieser neuen Enterprise wird übrigens Captain Chase heißen… die erste auf Star Trek basierende Zeichentrickserie aus dem Jahre 1973 kann übrigens seit November bei amazon geordert werden. […]
#40, very well put. I can really do without ANY more testosterone-driven hogwash.
And about the notion that “Trek can be anything” (also shared by Ronald D. Moore, btw). If that is the case, and there’s no defining quality for Trek whatsoever, then it is really just a commercial brand you can tack onto whatever keeps the masses happy. Time for a quick and painless death then - better to never see new Trek again than to have its philosophical core bastardized.
I like some of the art.
Conceptually there’s nothing fresh here for anyone who’s watched or read anything other than “Star Trek” in the last twenty years, but that doesn’t mean the show wouldn’t work.
That said, I have to echo whoever said uptopic “I’m not feelin’ it.”
I’m not opposed to any Trek series. I’d watch 4 at once if they’d produce them. IF its really Star Trek.
Here’s the two lines above Star Trek fans should be MOST wary about - not just for this proposed new Animated Series, but for the direction and road that the people in charge are GUIDING the creative people towards…
Quote from above:
“The premise is an allegory for the post-9/11 world we live in. A world of uncertainty and fear.”
Wow. That’s what the powers that be think?
There’s only fear and uncertainty if you believe there is fear and uncertainty. Any fictional accounts or broadcast entertainment that accepts this as a premise convey’s that message to the viewers.
I dont like this idea one bit. And not on the basis of make trek into an
animated form. That i am fine with. My issue resides in the limited
comprehension of writers now a days that feel that every forum has to be
an exact mimic of our times in the literal since so that we must “change”
every forum to meet it. Though some darker, more pessimistic notions of
the future work for sci-fi IT IS NOT Trek.
I compare this to the notion of a writer coming in and writing material on
a specific idea - say life in Iraq, or espionage during WWII, or the
Spanish Civil War during the early 1930’s- but decided not to either 1. do
the research neccessary to write on the material or 2. all their own views
on the world to shape what another one actually was.
Star Trek is not about rampid fear of the future or what will happen. Yes
it does come up in its stories at times (ie. Star Trek VI) but it is not
something that completely envelopes the world. The difference between
good writing and simple stereotypical one is that good writing finds ways
to make its commentary come through NO MATTER what setting or forum it is
expressed in. Simple stereotypical ones play into fears, uneducated
conceptions, and miss informed thoughts that are mainly objective in idea.
Many of the presented ideas here for this Trek cartoon simply go against
the entire reason the series was created.
Now some may argue the business side here, and at its heart that is the
way sci-fi and story telling is now. NO, that is the way that many
writers have their own beliefs and feelings at now. They themselves are
expressing their own fears and uncertainities within their own work. Now
some may say that this is just an expression of the times, and yes that is
true and may be true in other formats of story telling. BUT not for Trek.
Trek is grounded on the basis of a future that has been shaped from
violence and fears and has moved patch must of it. It is about hope
taking a hold and everyone coming to some form of understanding that we
are not as different as we make ourselves out to be. It was about social
ideas, and how did it get that across……by being different from the
rest of the sci-fi and other programming that was attempting to cater
COMPLETELY to the audience. It tested societal ways of doing things, ways
of interacting between cultures. Yes it still did have its own
stereotypes, its own selling out, but the fact is that there were giving a
little away of themselves so as to produce something that gave MORE to the
audience.
Sometimes someone or something has to stand out and attempt to make
statements about the world around us within a different voice than what is
being heard and used by everyone else. It is the only way that u stand
out and it is the only way that u will ever matter.
I like the illustrations but wish the Captain wore red, if it’s going to be post VOY era.
Dip Thong. Why have you brought bigotry to a discussion about a Star Trek cartoon?
Don’t tell me you’re one of those types who mocks everyone who chooses to believe in God (more people in the world do than don’t!) The way you’re talking, everyone who believes in God has to be some kind of fundamentalist. I guess all those old ladies who have a cup of tea with the vicar after the Sunday service are priming their Uzi’s while eating cucumber sandwiches! What the hell do they have to do with Bush, Cheney or Klingons?
Roddenberry’s scary, utopian universe of TNG might have adopted a form of secular humanism, but I’ve gotta ask: where do you think all the religious people went? What happened to Mecca or the Vatican? Are you telling me everyone gave up religion all across the world in one fell swoop?
The TNG version of humans are bland people who show no artistic inclinations and mock those who do (Barclay!) The only way a secular humanist view could be dominant in the TNG universe is if it was forced on people a la communism in the Soviet Union. Can’t you see it? Humanist fanatics locking away priests, rabbis, artists, radicals, reactionaries . . . ‘Make it so!!!’
Unlike its preachy successor, TOS always questioned the existence of God, as many of us who acknowledge the ***possibility*** of God do! There was never a definitive statement made in TOS, because the makers acknowledged the truth: we can’t know for certain! The discussion is what made things interesting rather than the preaching of TNG Trek.
Carl Sagan, for all his past remarks (and I respect his work in a way I don’t respect that lunatic Dawkins, who is the secular equivalent of Torquemada!) discussed God in his novel Contact and, in spite of everything that happened in it, never denied the possibility of God, merely giving us aliens who don’t know either.
And, by the sound of it, the smug 24th Century Federation has had a well-deserved arse-kicking in this cartoon. No society could be that sterile for so long without a major reaction.
TOS was never as positive as people make out. Yes, blacks, whites and Asians can all live and work together. That’s positive. But there are still people like Kodos and Dr Adams out there. Space is still often as dark and scary as it is wondrous. The edge of known space is littered with failed colonies and abandoned mining stations.
I like the idea that we’ll see humans regaining their zest for life in this cartoon. Strong emotions are part of the human condition, love, lust, anger, sorrow . . . as is the questioning of all things, be it Jehovah, the Prime Directive or Captain Kirk’s right to fancy Yeoman Rand!
After years of underplayed human characters and drab therapy-speak the new Treks offer us all some hope.
And once again, leave it to we Trek fans to dismantle a project before it even gets going lol. I’m not opposed to seeing a less than perfect society for the Federation. If it keeps going the way it has been, you start moving characters away from having touchstone with US. They become too cheery and perfect.
Even Enterprise, which I had a lot of high hopes for, fell flat in the character department. Sounds like Rossi wants to add some grit back to Trek and I say bravo. Lets see what you got lol!
Maybe this is all just an elaborate ruse to devert you vicious disciples from turbo lift position and nacelle caps lol.
Hey Dom…who brought up religion?
Who brought up Secular Humanism?
Who was the Dip Thong you are referring to?
Sounds like you have a beef with TNG and Roddenberry for that matter.
I love the idea. Can’t wait. But then I love change (mostly - except those blasted nacelle caps, lol) I know change frightens a lot of the more autistic Trek fans.
I think the uniforms are really neat; the concept is interesting enough that I’d watch. I think they’re just searching for a way to make Trek into an adventure series again. Embrace that, I say; drop the pretentious allegorical nonsense (it’s a friggin CARTOON, people) and make it fun, make it Johnny Quest with phasers.
Could be fun and the next generation era is relegated to preciely where it belongs: cartoon status. I said it last week and I’ll say it again , no one whores out a franchise like Paramount. They might even have George Lucas taking notes at the pace they are going.
I’m on the fence about this one. Seems kinda cool, in some aspects, yet doesn’t “feel” right to me, for some reason.
#22 Spirit
“But I guess this is what happens when you have to cater to majority taste, which unlike the 1960s doesn’t seem very open about anything but “gloom and doom” these days anymore.”
That’s because those who survived The Sixties know that it didn’t turn out so well after all. Sure, we weren’t vaporized by Ruskie nukes, but we’ve morphed into the USSR all the same. In many tangible ways, the American Way died with the Summer of Love.
Trek content: “Fool me once, shame on you…”
I’m not going to be fooled again!
to quote Mr. Horse:
“No sir, don’t like it.”
It’s too dark, and too far off concept. I’d like either a new animated series about the original crew, or the old series redone with new animation.
But then again, since this is on the web and (presumably) free, what harm can it do?
Dip Thing writes,
“It isn’t Star Trek’s “optimism” that made it great. It’s the idea that in the future the Carl Sagans of the universe will be in charge and successfully run society on the principles of secular humanism and science while the George Bush and Dick Cheneys of the universe are Klingons. Star Trek is about the promise of a new Enlightenment, not the depressing notion of another Dark Ages. ”
You wouldn’t last five minutes in a world run by secular humanists, Dip Thing. In case you’ve forgetten we already tried that.
It was called The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
They murdered some 70 -80,000,000 of their own people. “We shall have fewer Russians, but better Russians.”
The hatred within you is shocking. Particularly since you profess to hate hate. Well, what would you expect from a selfish philosophy where Man is his own god?
#48 Dom
You tell him, bro.
Guys like Dip Thing should read up on their heroes. For example, Robespierre was the Deweyan Religious Humanist’s wet dream come true.
Unless it was your blood flowing into the sewers of gay Paris.
Fanatics like Robespierre are a recurring nightmare — and why I practice my tactical carbine techniques.
#48 Dom
“There was never a definitive statement made in TOS, because the makers acknowledged the truth: we can’t know for certain! ”
Actually “Bread and Circuses” affirmed Christianity.
Uhura, “They don’t mean the sun up in the sky, but the Son of God”
Kirk, “Wouldn’t it be fantastic to see it happen… all over again!”
Knowing that Shatner is Jewish, I’ve always taken his participation in that scene to be a blazing example of grace and humility, an example of gratitude of a stranger to his hosts.
Dip Thing might learn from that example. But probably, he won’t.
Oops. There apparently was a self professed Dip Thong. I thought that was a response. My mistake. But I still believe you have a beef with TNG / Roddenberry.
Contrary to popular belief, we don’t have to take sides about U.S. political affairs to discuss/debate whether Star Trek should take for granted that today’s potential fans live in “A world of uncertainty and fear”.
It’’s fine for Trek to demonstrate a philosophy of dealing with adversity when solutions aren’t black and white. To those TNG haters out there - reference the entire Maquis story arc.
But there is something fundamentally wrong about a dark, foreboding Trek universe where the future of humanity in space is threatening and unsure. 1960’s era optimism about spaceflight and the future of mankind in space is anti-thetical to “a universe of monsters and dangerous people” threatening us in space.
Last I checked, Conservatives and Progressives alike enjoy contemplating mankind’s exploration of space.
To echo the sentiment already stated here:
The last thing Trek Needs is more stupid characters set FURTHER in the future on ANOTHER ship called Enterprise. You know what you’re going to get when you watch a James Bond film. Why can’t Star Trek be the same thing with the original Trek? All I care about is TOS and revisions of TOS. Quit trying to re-invent the frickin wheel here and give us fans what we want…TOS!!!
If David Rossi is looking to us as some sort of a marketing research group, I will offer my opinion in that spirit:
The 6-minute format invites little “storytelling” in the way that we Trek fans are accustomed. Star Trek: TAS told thoughtful, interesting tales in the half-hour format and it allowed for memorable character moments. This new venture is so compounded, I don’t know what we really can get out of the experience.
The premise is contradictory to past Star Treks. This is straight-up monsters and mayhem. In a sense, this is a genre shift that doesn’t even require that the name “Star Trek” be attached to it, but in the same breath, I can say that without it being labeled “Star Trek” I doubt many people would pay this premise much mind.
One thing that bothered me at first glance is the use of Borg technology to coordinate tactical operations among the security force. This is antithetical to Star Trek’s reverence for the individual. I know lots of people use terms like “secular humanist,” etc. to diminish some of Trek’s more ponderous voyages, but one thing is certain, the respect for a person’s individual liberty is paramount among all Treks. For Starfleet to rely on shared consciousness is a scary subject that I don’t think will receive much treatment in this format. If there was a real debate over this issue, I’d be happy to watch it, but as it stands, this is a gimmick meant to make the show more “Trekish.”
At first glance (and that’s all I mean by this critique) this concept seems more like “Doom” and less like “Star Trek.” I get it that this is a cartoon and that its a fresh take on the series, and I will keep an open mind as the information herein is very scant and preliminary. All I’m doing here is giving my honest initial reactions.
“My culture is based on freedom and self-determination” - Picard in Best of Both Worlds.
“My culture is based on freedom and self-determination” - Picard in Best of Both Worlds.
Which is the essence of Humanism; no theocracy anywhere — Christian or any other — respects the freedom and dignity of the individual.
#64 DB
Pure brainwahsed Slacker Generation drivle. You don’t have a clue what you are talking about. Go back study a while and then offer an opinion. Maybe in 20 or 30 years.
My first impression upon seeing the first test art image, chase1.jpg, was, “This is a joke, right?” It looks terrible. Perhaps when it’s moving and in context it will be better, but I doubt it will be the “look” of this animated series that will carry the day.
I’m not opposed to a more somber future Star Trek as the backdrop (to mirror the post-9/11 world), but it should be with heavy doses of optimism about building a better future and things getting better — rebuilding the federation.
Let’s hope there are some brilliant sci-fri writers willing and able to contribute to this project should it get off the ground. Otherwise, no setting or art style will make a bit of difference.
“My entertainment is based on drama and interesting characters” - Spockariffic on Trekmovie.com
Next Gen had some great stories, but ultimately when all the drama came from outside the main characters, it left little room for growth. Kirk and McCoy used to GO AT IT when they argued. Look at Corbomite which just aired. I love that. That stuff NEVER happened on TNG unless they were under the influence of something or someone.
As for the Federation never using Borg technology, it always sounded sooooo stupid that once they had the cloaking device, Starfleet never used it. If the B.U.G. things are just a way for Security to be more covert or more like special forces guys, I’m all for it.
At least they’re trying to break the mold of the last 20 years of a perfect Federation. Perfect = boring.
To weigh in…
I am intrigued by certain aspects of this idea, but feel that I need to offer the following thoughts.
While the Filmation efforts of 73-74 may seem dated to many, I agree with the poster in #62 above. TAS had many good moments of development that were fueled by the twenty-four minute format. Perhaps if we had six minute segments provided daily for a week, or weekly for a month, that came together into an episode (6×5=30!) then I might feel stronger about this concept.
I have NO issue whatsoever about the crew of a new (well, slightly used from Bob’s Discount Starship Lot) Enterprise trying to reestablish a Federation that was decimated… in fact, I think that the story has a lot of VERY strong potential.
I definately don’t like the Borg implant concept, but can see the idea of having soldiers (redshirts) who are linked together for team action at times. It has to be voluntary, though… not coercive. To coerce folks, even redshirts, against their will is unthinkable (though it would make a damned good storyline… forcing redshirts to march to battle in an unjust situation… the abuse of the link… and the Enterprise coming in under Captain Alexander Chase Me Around The Block Lieutenant Donal… but I digress.)
I love the uniform on Captain Chase in the concept drawing with the phaser/martian war machine… not too big a fan of Donal’s, unless it’s meant to represent security armour. Like the return to TOS colors, and the look of the uniforms, though different, reminds me greatly of TOS.
All in all, I would be interested and would definately watch… (meet Father Rob… he is a Trekwhore) but I feel the format needs a bit of work.
Rob+
Like the remake doctor who series, this is a huge miistake waiting to happen
^^
You read my mind
Just bring back TNG Please!
“Pure brainwahsed[sic] Slacker Generation drivle[sic]”
Sorry, neither.
I’m old enough to remember and to have participated in that world of the 1950s and 1960s that you incessantly evoke as somehow better than the present day…and more than that, I’m bright enough and have sufficient perspective to understand what I’ve experienced and studied.
If anything, your retrograde rhapsodies sound curiously secondhand, so often opening with “my father did this” or “my father told me that.” Your posts generally fail to suggest you’ve actually experienced that qualifies you to pontificate so stridently on history and the state of the world. ;) remains remarkably unrevealed. ;)
^ Should read:
“Your posts generally fail to suggest what you’ve actually experienced that qualifies you to pontificate so stridently on history and the state of the world. “
#9 and #13:
Don’t forget to include Timm and co.’s terrific Justice League series that followed the Batman and the Superman shows and just wrapped up eariler this year. The last 2 seasons had to be some of the most sophisticated animated shows ever made, both from an animation and storytelling standpoint. Highly recommended on DVD either for repeat viewing or especially if you have not seen them! :)
I’ve long said that a new animated Trek would be great. It would REALLY have worked in the mid-90’s when Batman: The Animated Series and also Superman: The Animated Series were in their prime (along with several other more “adult” animated fare such as “Spawn,” “The Tick” and “Duckman” until “Pokemon” came along and RUINED everything…but I digress), and all of Trek’s original cast could probably have been able to do the voice acting.
Now we may be getting too late for that even with the remaining surviving cast members…but I still applaud the idea even if new voice actors must be used.
Jon
I want to add a couple of comments
first on the ‘BUGs’ and Borg Tech
The backstory on these is that during the long war with the Romulans the Feds started bending the rules a bit. The devices will become a story issue in that there may be soom unintended side effects, plus they tend to make non security people a bit distrustful of the security squad.
RE: dark future not being ‘trek’
Perhaps this isn’t emphasised enough in the article, but the fundamental story is about an idealistic captain who is steeped in Federation history and he is trying to bring back the idealism of ‘the old days’. People should remember that setting isn’t story…the story is about this hero and his crew and their struggles to get that UFP mojo back.
I can’t believe you haven’t been slashdotted on this.
@Anthony Pascale
The concept seems to be similar to Roddenberry’s “Andromeda”. In my opinion it would have been a consequent sequel to DS9. Unfortunatly “Andromeda” wasn’t part of the star trek universe and had a low budget. Maybe today Gene Roddenberry himself would use those darker vision for a new trek series. To be honest, it doesn’t matter as long as the characters stand for themselves and keep their idealistic ambitions.
There’s one more thing I want to add that I feel strongly about (or rather, against): why does EVERYTHING these days - in the real world as well as fiction - have to center around politics and economics? I’m so terribly tired of this stuff. If not even a science fiction series can’t be exploring interesting issues, concepts, ideas anymore, I guess things have really hit the botton. We shouldnt forget when we talk about getting back to the roots that in Star Trek (The Original Series), both politics and economics were relegated to the back seat. I dont believe a second that the lack of information and consistency in this area (regarding the Federation, its economic and political system, its history) was not deliberate - it just wasn’t important. This show was about characters and issues - in the way that every week, every mission would critically explore a different, socially relevant and/or philosophically challenging one (through our crew), not end up in developing tiresome fictional constructs regarding ONE possible scenario spread out across the whole series. And I don’t see how that original concept somehow would not be applicable anymore today - I say, on the contrary it is deeply needed in a world in which you have so much “same same” in the field of “fictional political intruige” disguised as “science fiction”.
ha ha ha!
I love this. You just KNOW that if Roddenberry were still alive and was developing this, it would probably have everyone’s seal of approval. Anything outside of that… as we see with the new movie, the remasters, um, DS9, Voyager, Enterprise, and even the final years of TNG - prompts significant debate.
We the geeks and basement dwellers hereby swear to uphold Roddenberry’s vision and the canon thereof; however, like the United States constitution it is merely a framework open to interpretation and the architects are long since passed. And the debate and opinionation ensues.
I love it. Very mac in the pants.
best!!
=h=
#72 DB
I am a 42 yo family man. Been shot at, nearly died on several occassions doing “manly things”. Seen dear loved ones die. Stood up to be counted at cost of my career. Sent men to prison. Made a whole lot of dumass mistakes following the cues of you Baby Boomers. Learned from most of them and rejected the entire “Me Generation” of “Imagine”.
And therein lies the difference. I learned from my parents because I respected them. Your generation hated all that came before you discovered your navels. It wasn’t me who invented, “never trust anyone over thirty”. Look at the present Ameriprise advertising campaign. That’s the Boomers in all their selfish, self-absorbed “I am my own God” glory.
Your colleagues severed ties to the past and replaced tradition, by and large, with governmental coersion ultimatley at the barrel of a gun (that would be police power for those who miss the reference). Very Stalinist, no?
Having been on the receiving end a few times, you’ll understand why I won’t abide it here, either.
MEEEEEEOW!!!
see what I’m sayin’???
best!!
=h=
Gosh, am I the only one reading these threads that think some fans take Trek waaaay too seriously….it’s entertaiment for heaven’s sake!
I’ve been a big fan of Star Trek TOS all my life, but at the end of the day, it’s just another TV show. It’s not at all important in the grand scheme of life…
The heated rhetoric and lack of humor in these posts can be amusing at times, but all too often it rises to the point of being pathetic and disturbing!
I’m sure Star Trek has made a positive impact on many people’s lives. Fans have professed that ST gave them the motivation to study and pursue careers in science, astronomy, engineering etc, but I’m beginning to wonder if the ST influence has become overexaggerated over the years. Has it really changed lives and the world, or is it just another classic and very popular TV show?
I grew up watching reruns of Star Trek TOS, and I can emphatically say that I didn’t learn any life lessons or values, or guiding principles from Star Trek, or any other television show for that matter.
Star Trek has not had any influence on what I value and hold dearly in my life today.
To me, Star Trek is and always will be great quality science fiction entertainment, nothing more, nothing less. But it’s obvious that many fans have elevated ST to a level of importance in their lives that seems more a form of “idoltry” than of fan appreciation.
I find that very scary….
.
Mike :o
“I am a 42 yo family man. ”
As I suspected, more than a decade younger than me. When you launch into these little diatribes about the 1960s…these are times and events that you remember, if at all, as a preschooler. You can drop the “your generation” rhetorical attempts to impugn my observations now. :)
Oh, and you also can give up trying to compete on the basis of your “being on the receiving end” of violence claims, among others. Trust me, you know far less than you imagine. :)
This is a terrific idea and it couldn’t have come at a better time. The recent DVD release of ST:TAS certainly sparked my interest in the possibility of an animated series.
The idea of going 150 years into the future, as TNG did after TOS, is a fine idea, but I’d rather the Federation’s “bleak” state be a long-term result of the Dominion War and how the Alpha/Beta quadrants dealt with the aftermath. What happened to the Romulan Empire after the Shinzon debacle? Did the Klingons retreat inward to rebuild, as Luther Sloane predicted? Did Cardassia reconstruct and become a power with which to be reckoned? What have the Tholians, Bajorans, Gorn, Breen, Borg and First Federation been doing in the meantime? All these issues must be taken into consideration when establishing the Federation of the 26th century.
Animated characters have the advantage of being “easily replaceable” if they don’t “hit” with the audience. No more contract negotiations possibly holding things up. You can actually kill characters but still retain the vocal artists for other roles. This is a great opportunity to “break out” of the Roddenberry shell of an “ideal future” and get down and dirty with situations we can relate to in 2006.
Can’t wait! Make it so!
I have absolutely no recollection on this, but was there ever an end to the Dominion war? Seriously, I’m drawing a blank.
Whatever. The Me Generation’s accomplishments (led by their parents, the WW2 generation who for all they suffered spoiled their bratty little offspring) speak for themselves. The task of undoing them has begun in earnest.
The tie to Star Trek? TOS, as progressive as it was, is imbued with its cultural heritage. It persists as a sort of transitional anachronism. Read Oriana Fallaci’s The Pride and the Rage and you’ll get the concept.
TNG et al are the Useless Idiots’ secularist vision and it is sterile. As in, does not support life. Sadly, younger GenXers look to it for guidance because the Boomers have been so successful in stripping our civilization of any worthwhile institution that they would have look to for guidance, e.g., marriage, the church, academe.
I find it sad that several generations must turn to science fiction fantasy worlds for examples of how to live because their own history was ripped from them.
One final thought and then I’m ending this thread, I lived through the 1970s and 1980s. They were good times. Decent times. I remember prayer in school and Christian hymns in the Christmas concerts. We found much value to it all. It uplifted our spirits.
To follow my own analogy, if that makes me Winston Smith, so be it. But I’ll bear witness to “the old ways” until I leave this world for the next.
Regarding the reference to Andromeda above and given Anthony Pascale’s clarification of the context of the “setting”, I agree that it sounds very similar to Andromeda (and perhaps given the clarification, I might be more interested in seeing it).
I think I’m one of a very small handful of people that watched that series (Andromeda) - despite some of the silliness of it - and agree that the plotline sounds pretty similar. Still, that show did have a few very good moments to it. That particular series would’ve worked much better as an Animation (as would most anything Kevin Sorbo has acted in!!).
As to taking Trek seriously, you bet I do. There is a whole world of mindless and nefarious television that I am disgusted by. Trek reruns and a handful of other obscure shows are the only television I can stomach these days. When a threat emerges to my last bastion of entertainment, I’ll always take issue with those that want to see it perverted into something other than it was intended to be simply because “majority rule” equates to “maximum profit potential”.
…and for the record, I’m 31. I’ve met brilliant 20 year olds and brilliant 70 year olds. I’ve also met some really stupid 70 year olds and really stupid 20 year olds. So why don’t we just drop the age check before anyone’s feelings get hurt, okay?
Never mind, it can’t possibly happen now - The Fans Have Spoken
DB,
actually I believe the article has been slashdotted. Although it hasnt hit AICN or Fark yet. When we had the Trek Remastered scoop we got all three in one day…the geek trifecta. So far the story is also on DarkHorizons and SciFi.com as well as some other sites….but yet not on any other Trek sites.
Oh and people…settle down
#87 yeah but marriage was the institulization for the objectification of women as property of men and thus being able to be controlled by them. And notions of the Church and academe of the past presented notions that no individual can stand for what they feel is right, only what the social order wishes to be correct. Much of those institutions u proposed were structured and presented within a manner to allow for limitations in creative spirit, ingenuity and self guidance. I am not saying that the whole systems themselves are wrong, but their overall structure and what they present is in many ways for the time.
If this project comes to be, what are people’s votes on how ‘canon’ it will be?
It depends on its level of quality, but seeing as how most of these animated forms tend to be even more schewed to following simple gimics, poor character development, simple mind framed ideas that are either pc or ill charged with any real depth of substance that i feel if it were to be made (and i really do not wish it to be) then it will fall to the waste side.
The sad thing is that it seems like many who are involved in Trek (though i can not vouch for Abrams yet) or any franchise/creative endeaver do not attempt to look at the material for what it is and always feel they have to change it to match some notion of either their limited creative injections to their own world view (which in most cases in writers and producers especially) is normally bias toward political and social climates of the time and thus the final product is poor because of a direct result of that.
#88 “I think I’m one of a very small handful of people that watched that series (Andromeda) - despite some of the silliness of it - and agree that the plotline sounds pretty similar.”
I watched the first season, and enjoyed immenseley it despite some occasional storytelling failings. It was an ambitious show, to begin with, and so I was never inclined to hold stuff like “it looks cheap” against it.
After Wolfe (the guy who *actually* created it) left it tanked IMAO.
old h69 is going to go out on a limb here for the team and get opinionated. I don’t do this very often, elliot. But since we have the need for speed and greed is good and all that Gordy Gecko® let me share my take on this animated project.
Overall, it sounds ok. I hope that IF it is brought into the trek canon that someday if there is a future series about the 26th century Trek, *whoever* is in charge of the franchise at that point keeps consistent with it.
And I think that’s the overall source of ALL dissent that is Trek. While I’m happy for this guy who is pitching the idea, and wish him success, isn’t rather arbitrary in terms of who is making the decisions on the direction of the franchise these days? It’s right place, right time kinda stuff for these folks more than I think the thing that WE all want to see is.. who DESERVES to have this say, who can handle the Trek franchise with care and attend to continuity while staying true to the Great Bird?
SO what’s all this back and forth about the 60s, prayer in schools, and all that? I am going to put this in perspective for all of you, right now, hitchworld style. Global Warming© is going to kill us all. Take that to the bank. I think we should worry WAY more about that, and no one seems to be doing anything about it. Close the factories, get martial law going and anyone that drives a car gets shot. WORK on that transporter techMology. Let’s solve this thing.
Global Warming© and whatnot. It’s here to kill us all. Old hitch1969© told ya so.
best!!
=h=
“I find it sad that several generations must turn to science fiction fantasy worlds for examples of how to live because their own history was ripped from them.”
Wow. You’re in the wrong forum to be blasting folks for being sci-fi fans.
Get out from behind your podium and chat with us about cartoons, or take your ball and go home.
This is the first time I have written regarding an article, but I just had to. I think that this is a mistake unless it is handled in a serious manner along the lines of original Trek-and even then, the idea of cartooning after all the movies, TV series spinoffs, etc. is inappropriate at this time considering what Trek has become. I can understand doing an animated series back in the 70’s to prevent ST from becoming a memory, as well as bringing TOS cast and writers back. That, however, was done in a totally different period in its development, when fans were starving for its return.
ST has returned, is 40 years old, and has matured. To reincarnate it as a cartoon negates the older, mature crowd that has grown up with it, and approaches the kiddie element once again-unless CBS and Co feels that this is the market Trek is best suited for.
Paramount, in bringing a new movie to the screen, apparently feels differently. Even though they may be motivated by Abrams, a ST fan in his own right, they are more on the right track with extolling the TOS universe. CBS should take a lesson from this. Otherwise, this cartoon may turn out to be an insult to enduring fans at best, and a disaster at worst.
Great news, I got slated on numerous boards for suggesting that the franchise needed to move into the future and feature a collapsed Federation that needed to rebuild a broken dream. Now it’s going to happen and it’s even better than than ever
Bald people should NOT be allowed in space suits
and yo, acb™:
“yeah but marriage was the institulization for the objectification of women as property of men and thus being able to be controlled by them.”
YEAH BABY YEAH!!!
I’m gonna get a little mysogenistic with you and agree with your theory, even though I doubt the enlightened folk round these parts are going to pat you on the back soon. However, there must be order and the tribe cannot have two chiefs. It’s not a popular idea to speak out loud and I am sure that you will become the Kramer™ of this board for having preached this. The fact is that women are not equals. There’s a alot of the cake and eat it too going on with the old double standard when women demand to be treated like ladies old school yet want equal this and that. The modern woman should be able to take an open handed slap from a man and be called a slut. Anything outside of that is traditional subservient role which I think you are referring hereto. Same goes for child support… if a woman is equal, why does she accept the handout from the man? The law is based on assumption that she cannot soley provide for the child like the man is expected to; I would think that most educated women would find the notion of child support rather insulting. Yet here we see them not only cashing the check every month, but then playing house with some OTHER guy and letting him pay most of their stuff too. So I don’t know. I’m certainly not about domestic violence or the mistreatment of women; rather, just… pick one of the two and stop playing the ends against the middle. That will never happen in I think that your stance, the old school traditional barefoot and preggers credo is probably the most prudent route at this time because of that. SO I am with you on your control the wives and make them property of the man thing I guess if forced to choose.
You don’t see these issues addressed in Star Trek. That’s my suggestion for the writing team. Give this Captain Chase a real whore of an ex-wife and a custody situation that is less than favorable and heavily out of pocket. I wanna SEE the angst and frustration in dealing with that.
See what I am saying there? You brought alot to the table. Thank you.
best!!
=h=
I believe what was said was that it was initially going to be circulated on the Internet rather than television. If it is kept OFF television, it could be a great buzz generator among young people that spend their whole life on the Internet (as long as it is true Star Trek and they are careful/respectful of Canon). Unfortunately, I’m not sure they would be that careful about it.
I do like the idea of an Internet only series of short films — I came across that site that is doing new voyages with Sulu and Chekov and must say that is really REALLY cool as an “Internet-only” phenomenon.
btw whats a “SlashDot™” and can I get an asian one, a blonde one, and a latino one while were talking about it? I’ve got the cash AND I do tip!
best!!
=h=
The more I think about this idea, the worse it sounds. There is absolutely no excuse to do an animated series and NOT make it about Kirk and crew.
Enough with the bad clones. Let’s get the original Enterprise back where it belongs–at the forefront of Trek. No bloody A, B, C, D, E or J.
People who have worked on Enterprise or any Berman era Trek should simply not be allowed to touch it anymore. They simply have no clue. Darker Trek? Dumb.
It’s all about Kirk and crew. THAT’s what has endured for 40 years. Not some dark clone.
TNG and its spinoffs have made the studio far more money than the original series has. Though they’re not as suitable, at this moment, for a live-action kickstart to the Franchise as rebooting new versions of Kirk and Spock may be, it’s silly to think that Paramount will abandon all their other versions of the property. That would make no business sense.
The original animated series kept the show alive during a fallow period and this could do the same. And just as TAS stepped outside canon from time to time, so can this. The separation from “reality-based” Trek, you’ll excuse the expression, makes it entirely appropriate to branch away a bit. What little we’re seeing above looks interesting. They should avail themselves of the writers and producers of shows like JLA:Unlimited and the Superman/Batman Adventures, who clearly understood how to make an intelligent, well-crafted cartoon with broad age-appeal. Kudos to Dave Rossi and his compatriots for advancing this notion. And if it skews to the youth-market, hey good for them. We need new recruits to the Trek universe!
Looks exciting! I hope they get to do it!
#104 DB
“TNG and its spinoffs have made the studio far more money than the original series has.”
That is a claim I’d like to see backed up with actual figures. I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I am *extremely* skeptical.
But all of this TOS v. The Rest of the Franchise stuff is getting tiresome. This fight will never be resolved to any satisfactory conclusion. Look, some like one show over the rest. Be thankful there’s a variety to choose from. Guess what, nobody is going to change anyone’s mind in this argument. Disagreeing with a person’s preference is one thing, telling that person their opinion is wrong is something completely beyond reasonable discouse.
#102, hitch!
My man! I’m going to Montreal in a few months to find the answers to your questions.
#95. hitch1969©
Amen, Brother!
All the assertions of “my generation / ideaology / religion / viewpount / Star Trek” is better than yours” DON’t mean squat if we ain’t got a world to live on.
We haven’t been real kind to Mother Nature. Funny thing is… she doesn’t care. She’s had a lot of different tenants over the last few billion years. Someone or somethin’ new will pop up to water the grass and sweep the porch after we’re gone.
We really need to start payin’ attention ’cause the lease is almost up and we got no where to move.
#100. hitch1969©
You are cooler than anybody has a right to be but you’re on your own, baby! Or, more precisely, Herbert’s Eyes Shut Tight.
Love readin’ your prose… but that is one love-song that is out of tune.
Without gettin in front of your life… a history that ain’t mine… do your best to lighten your load… Life’s a long journey and the baggage we carry can make it a hard one.
On the plus side… that suitcase with all that stuff in it is gonna be so sweet to ride down the other side of the hill when the grass is filled with morning dew.
Keep swingin, Brother! And the best to you.
by the way. I just talked to Mike Okuda and he had some nice things to say abou the project. I have added a new last paragraph for his ‘endorsement’
I really really like the uniforms!!! Nice work!!
The further trek gets from the original formula the worse it gets.
As a big DS9 fan (my second favorite Trek after TOS), I say this looks really interesting. I’m looking forward to it, and wish the producers/writers/animators the best of luck. Don’t screw it up… ^_^
no one has even mentioned the new insignia. hmmmmm.
This looks like exploitation of the worst kind, unworthy of the name. They’ll wreck it, given the chance, the whole enchilada. Remember folks, you still have your memories, memorabilia and your DVDs, VHS, lasers or fotonovels to enjoy Trek when you want.
JON, I’d agree the futher away that Trek gets from its original formula the worse it gets. But we’d probably have differing views on what that formula is. If anything, this could be closer in spirit to the original formula (who knows, not having read any scripts). Yes the Federation has supposedly suffered some defeats, as do all established power structures, eventually. But the show sounds like its about some optimistic folks, out there looking to restore it.
Let’s face it, there’s been a lot of revisionism built up around the success of TOS — it wasn’t all about what a bright and shiny future was out there. I always felt cheated if there wasn’t a least one a**-whuppin’ handed out by Kirk. There was a lot of the wild west in there, and successfully so. The new animated premise sounds to me like it could capture that feel quite well.
[…] Ha ha I just had to post this! I was reading slashdot.org today, like you do, and I stumbled across an article about a new Star Trek series. Now before I go on I would like to defend my own honor and tell you that I’m not a Trekkie by any means. I do enjoy watching Star Trek like most of the geeks of this world, but I tend to think I don’t really fit in to that group. I appreciate science fiction, and it will always have a warm place in my heart. But I don’t care about how fast Warp 9 really is, and I really don’t care that in TNG* Episode 412 the Carbon Phase Inverter was in a Jefferies Tube on deck 12, but in TNG* Episode 605 the Carbon Phase Inverter was under a table in Engineering. I just don’t care. I enjoy a good television show like anyone else and the story line of Star Trek is cool. The last series to have the Star Trek name in the tile was canceled sometime last year (2005), and there hasn’t been any word on a new series. There will be a movie released sometime in 2008, but I prefer a mini series or a series where the story can continually grow. Today it was shared that there may be an animated web series funded by CBS. […]
I am one that tends to like all five incarnations of Trek… but this doesn’t strike me right. If it appears, I’ll watch… just to see what happens. But I am not feeling the love on this project.
please, I beg you Mr. Rossi, if you must - do something else with Star Trek, not this.
Here is my spin on it: “Go ahead, keep star trek going.” If one thing they can always claim alternate timeline :D.
The problem with this concept is the over-reliance on established Trek-history which plagued the later television incarnations.
The Original Star Trek was not dependant on it’s own history NOT because it was the first series, but rather because of the premise.
I give credit for a deliberate and systematic attempt to keep Trek in the forefront, but conceptually this proposed series is nothing new and yet another crew X, ship X, same tired mission X , formula.
Any poster here could come up with an equally mundane and generic concept.
Why not Captain Joshua McAllister commanding the U.G.A (United Galactic Assembly) starliner Enterprise (Omega class) during the mid 33rd century where star exploration now consists of traveling between galaxies via a quantum slip drive discovered in the late 27th century effectively rendering warp drive barbaric.
There is no Earth, as a rogue quantum singularity passed through the Sol system ripping away SOL itself rendering Earth an ice chunk.
Collective humanity now lives among the stars and inhabits worlds once hostile or at best neutral scattered out among the entire Milky Way Galaxy.
The Klingon, Romulan, Cardassian,Breen, Gorn, and Tholian species now comprise an insignificant portion of the vast political body the “United Galactic Assembly. ”
The Starliner Enterprise has been dispatched on an unprecedented 7 year mission to the distant Nebulous Galaxy dubbed “The shadow lands” easily 7,000 times any human built ship or crew have traveled.
Nothing is known about this galaxy or it’s inhabitants. Even utilizing quantum slip drive technology the UGA Enterprise will remain out of contact with human civilization or influence for months on end, such is the distance.
It’s purpose and mission: contact with previously undiscovered life, introduction of Milky Way science and philosophies, exchange of personnel with aliens encountered resulting in a truly species diversified representative Starliner Enterprise.
It’s obstructions:
An entire galaxy of undiscovered alien species with no love of human concepts such as freedom, exploration, cooperation, or friendship.
You see? That took me all of 3 minutes to type that.
I think the idea is great. I am so bored with Star Trek that I could scream. Now this is the movie they should make instead of Kirk and Spock at the academy. Who gives a rats. I like this idea and if it goes I’m there.
This is a horrible idea. It totally goes against what Star Trek is about, a hopeful future for humanity where we put aside differences and build a strong union and grow and learn. If CBS/Paramount resorts to this type of dark future, I will just give up on the franchise and no longer spend my dollars on a product that will become just like the other third rate sci-fi crap that is out there now.
All star trek needs to find are good writers and good stories and focus on the future (a positive future for humanity). The idea of “move forward” is a great idea, but to turn the star trek universe upside down and destroy the founding members of the federation are just ludicrus.
Everything out there now is doom and gloom and shows a dark side of humanity. I for one am tired of seeing it. Star Trek has been a good escape from reality and gives you a chance to see the future has hope and humanity can outgrow it’s current sad state. However, if star trek goes dark, it will loose a part of its soul, and I for one will move beyond star trek and focus on something else. Do no kill Star Trek as we now know it.
If paramount wants something dark, create a new series/show and start a new franchise. Give Star Trek a rest for now and maybe bring it back in 10-20 years. Star Wars grew as a result of Lucas holding the reins and keeping it pure to what he wanted the star wars universe to be. The original movies grew in popularity over time and more money was made because of that.
Paramount, focus on what you have now and work with what you have in place, especially since most of what made star trek, star trek currently is still around. Shatner, Nimoy, Stewart, Takei, Spiner, Brooks are still around. Use you current resources while you still have them.
If you want a dark cartoon, focus on the mirror universe of star trek. That way, you can have your dark stories and not destroy what you have built already with the current star trek model. All good things end, however, it does not have to die. Just rest the franchise for an extended time and work with what you have, and you will build a strong platform in the future when the timing is right, just like star wars.
By God I figured it out!
9/11 allegory? Post 9/11 “fear and uncertainty?”
SADDAM HUSSEIN unleashed the Omega detonations with his WMD!
Sorry Rossi, I figured it out already.
Shouldn’t the Captain have been Captain George Washington Shrub?
And shouldn’t the ship be christened U.S.S Haliburton?
Or U.S.S. Business endeavor?
Correction, make that U.S. Business Endeavor
Josh T’s concept above sounds a lot like Andromeda…lol.
There’s different “good” and different “bad”. It’s subjective, for sure. But here’s a quick example of my worst case scenario “different bad”.
Captain James T. Kirk meets Spock at the Academy. The two are rooming together with a whole group of moody teenagers that can’t agree on anything and are constantly moaning about who is the most insensitive person and because Antonia had too much to drink one night and spent the night in Spock’s room. But Kirk and Spock decide Antonia isn’t important and soon rekindle their friendship via text message while at a rap concert.
They get their first assignment together on the U.S.S. Farragut. The Farragut fires orange phasers, quantum torpedoes, and flies at Warp 9.5. The crew can often be seen walking down the hallway drinking Coca-Cola and frequently make reference to 20th century corporations that made wonderful products for consumers to enjoy.
After an interlude in the holodeck where Matt Damon and Vin Diesel (Spock) were dueling with Bat’leths, Starfleet issues orders for a pre-emptive attack against the Klingon Empire after the Klingons begin hinting they have a powerful new weapon - “The Planet Killer”. Starfleet ships are to head straight for Kronos where they are to destroy Praxis. But resentment amongst Federation citizens and those pesky Vulcan peaceniks ruin it all and the Klingons become a powerful force in the quadrant because the Federation is made up of bald communist wussies that hate freedom.
That took about 3 minutes to write.
I get so sick of 9/11 being used to propogate any and every agenda someone can come up with. It’s ridiculous, how long are people going to have that hang over there head.
Living in FEAR? Thats what the guy that attacked New York city, you know, OSAMA BIN LADEN wants.
Of course everyone lives in fear when you have daily “red alerts.”
My God, there is a more interesting Star Trek episode going on today than ANYTHING broadcast on TV the last 15 years.
OIL TREK
Join Captain George Walker Bush, Commander Richard “Dick” Cheney, Propoganda Minister Karl “Goebbles” Rove, failed agricultural genetic experiment Condi Rice pattie, special guest star Osama Bin Laden as Saddam Hussein, and featuring Dennis “I have no chin” Hastert , aboard the fabulously lowest bid constructed “U.S.S. Imperialism as the crew confronts the greatest danger ever confronting human being: RESOURCE Wars.
The more I think about this, the fewer misgivings I have about it. It could be pretty cool.
Let a thousand flowers bloom, and all that stuff.
Interesting that the “big three” are all human. I like that. :)
Let’s try an remember that we are talking about 6 minute webisodes here, not the next motion picture.
The only bad thing that I will say about it is that I do not consider LeVar Burton to be any source of credibility in terms of where Star Trek should go or not go. That may be a thin premise to try to sell to the masses.
Star Trek isnt about going forward. Thats just dumb when they say that crap. Usually means that an actor in one of the TNG era shows is insecure about their place in the franchise. I would say it too were I them. But you don’t see Shatner talking that crap. Nope. He could care less. He just wants a paycheck and a big one.
Some say money’s bad for the soul, bad for the rock bad for the roll. Bad for the heart bad for the brain bad for damn near everything OH YEAH!!!!!
Thats some Van Hagar for you classic Van Halen era purists. Don’t even make me break out the Cherone stuff.
best!!
=h=
Mr. Rossi has proven that he not only knows Star Trek and respects its integrity, but he is an imaginative writer who isn’t afraid to push the envelope. Star Trek needs exactly those qualities for the next leap in the saga.
Bravo, Mr. Rossi! I can’t wait!
Obviously by Kirk’s time, they have solved and eradicated the problem of child support. Star Trek II, in the Genesis cave, the dialogue there between Kirk and Carol Marcus shows us that he never paid her a dime in his loss of custody of David. SO it wasn’t too surprising that in III when the Klingon commander told his warriors to “kill one of the prisoners - I don’t care which” Kirk was obviously more concerned that the “Vulcan Scientist” was not killed because he wasn’t as invested in his son as he was Spock. Spock was one of his homies. David was a child support payment never made. It was all good. I still think they should have killed Saavik though. What was the point, she was already recast and that was a serious downgrade. AND they didnt even use her as the Valeris character in 6 like they planned. So that’s why Trek iii is mainly propganda against child support.
The new Captain Chase will be dealing with these child support issues. The social service arm of the Federation will be following him all around in his adventures as he misses and skips payments. They threaten to take away his ship if he gets more than 3 months in arrears. Everyone on the ship labels him a deadbeat, yet somehow he manages to get the check written at the last minute.
Oh yes, very post 9-11 doom and gloom analogies for today’s issues. Count on it. I demand it. Where’s that letter writing campaign dude????
best!!
=h=
#130 i agree to a point Hitch. I never thought the referenced “trek is about going forward” to ever encompass the notion of moving forward in time, but more moving forward in the evolving of the human being. It does not matter overall what setting it is in, as long as it is about the notion of humanity bettering itself.
And that is where i think this fails to be Trek. It takes the premiss of taking a very large step back simply so we can attempt to arrive…………back were we were. That is a rather weak writing ploy overall, as is many of cases as killing off your character at the end of a story for no reason. The only issue right now with the understanding of Hollywood and ideas of action/ drama/ sci-fi is that they feel it needs to be aggressive / dark/ pessimistic. Why? Partially it is a fracturing of the world we live in working on producers and many writers who are themselves evoking an emotion experience they themselves are going through into their work.
Now sometimes this is useful, but in the case of Trek it does not fit. At least not to the extent at which they are taking it here and not in this tone. This is clear being geared to a younger crowd and implementing simple notions and charactures for its depictions (phasers, women in tight clothing, and monsters - oh my!). This is more of a gimmick piece than anything actually attempting to be REAL Trek. What Paramount is attempting, as they did in ‘79, is that they want to make Star Trek into Star Wars. They want that kind of revenue. Now this makes as much sense as Hollywood expecting Apocalypto to surpass Passion of the Christ simply because they were directed by the same man. It is not going to happen. Passion was for a different audience than is Apocalypto, as is Trek for a different audience than Star Wars. That is not to say that some who like SW wont come to see a new Trek, but it is arrogant and presumptious (yes i am using this over used word here, but because it actual fits with the usage this time) of Paramount to think it will if they go and change it to formulate this; because in the end it will only disappoint them because it will not attract as many viewers and in the case of ST XI it will not draw 350 million at the box office. What Paramount is doing here is not to tell a new side of Trek because it is the next logical step for the franchise, what they are doing is matching it to Star Wars ( and even the new BattleStar Galactica) so as to try and ween off some profit. This is a numbers game to them, and if u dont think so look at their track record or that of any franchise really. The only time it is different is if creative people are behind or infront of the camera who are there to take the material, make it different from what we have seen but still TRUE TO THE MATERIAL and to steer it back on course again (ex: Nick Meyer, Chris Nolan [batman begins] , Martin Cambell [Casion Royale], etc)
Plainly and simply, NO. No animated Trek. Please, god, no. I have read large samplings of many, many Star Trek comic series (TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY) and you know what? In the medium of cartoony drawings, be it animated or comic strip, Star Trek becomes incredibly hokey. It will become a joke. People will again laugh at fans of Star Trek, after DS9 successfully reduced the blatant laughter to the occasional stifled guffaw.
Sometimes, the problem is that the cartoony writers don’t take what they’re doing seriously enough and the whole package loses any touch of reality. Sometimes, the problem is that they go overboard with weird ideas because special effects cost nothing in a drawn medium. Whatever causes it, Trek in any form other than live action becomes hokey and thereby laughable.
This cartoon will be full of cliched lines that the writers think are “awesome”. The voice actors will be terrible because they will be trying to overact their lines “in character”. Cartoons are fine for franchises which began as cartoons, or in comics — but for franchises which belong in live action, cartoon is a major downgrade.
“Moving forward” is the old Corporate line I hear hundreds of time every week at work.
Its corporate-speak for “accept our changes, you don’t have a choice”.
Also known as “Evolve or Die”. Though that is often used as an excuse.
yo acb™,
dude it’s all about da money. pimp’s gotta get paid. We’re not pretending that its not. So you cannot fault businessmen for trying to do good business and make money. Thats the thug gangsta life.
Honestly I’m so open to the franchise not being dead that they could take a piece of human poop, put an insignia on it, call it officially sanctioned and I would buy it. Of course I would probably end up selling it on e-bay to make child support payments but thats another story.
I don’t believe in condoms either, that’s no solution. You can’t feel a thing. It’s not natural.
best!!
=h=
…..and that is exactly why we need people like the later portion of my article said, so it can be steered correctly since there may be more who also will take a “piece of human poop, put an insignia on it, call it officially sanctioned and I would buy it” and not care for quality. Just because they can do a thing does not mean that they should or it is for the best. U need the right people in there who know the difference.
***Sigh*** This kind of idea gives me the same ugly feeling in my stomach that I always got when I came back home after being out all night and I saw mom and dads light on in their bedroom. You know, the feeling like you are in deep shit.
Well, If Trek doesnt shape up and give the Trek fans what they want (you know, the people who stepped up every time a Trek series was facing cancellation to back them up) then they will end up with a Trek that is not on hiatus but completely dead.
It is this kind of crap that has got me into shows like Stargate SG1 and Stargate Atlantis and *Gasp* yes Battlestar Galactica.
They say it best in Battlestar Galactica, you mother frackers really fracked this one up.
Yep, still naseated by the thought…
I think a ‘fall of the Federation’ scenario was inevitable at