Podcast: All Access Gets To Know The Breen In ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ 505, “Mirrors”

All Access Star Trek podcast episode 182 - TrekMovie - Star Trek: Discovery "Mirrors"

[Discovery 505 review starts at 17:00]

Anthony and Laurie start with a Star Trek: Strange New Worlds production update, then round up the latest on the William Shatner documentary, a new Discovery coffee table book, and IDW’s “Star Trek: Celebrations” comic. Then they play some audio from Tony’s recent interview with Carlos Cisco, co-writer of this week’s Star Trek: Discovery episode, “Mirrors.” After that, they give “Mirrors” a full review; Tony liked it more than Laurie, but they both enjoyed the Moll and L’ak backstory. After a quick reminder about the PanCAN Purple Stride walk happening this weekend, the wrap up the pod with a Paramount business update courtesy of The Townand a recent interview with makeup legend Michael Westmore on The 7th Rule.


Prep Begins For ‘Star Trek: Strange New Worlds’ Season 3 Finale; Cast And Directors Share BTS Images

‘William Shatner: You Can Call Me Bill’ Documentary Arrives On VOD On Friday

Coffee Table Book On The ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Makeup Artistry Of Glenn Hetrick Coming In September

Exclusive First Look At Artwork From ‘Star Trek: Celebrations’ – IDW’s One Shot Comic For Pride Month

THEORY: Did ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Finally Resolve The “Calypso” Mystery?

Podcast: Armin Shimerman, Kitty Swink, Jonathan Frakes & Juan Carlos Coto—Trek Against Pancreatic Cancer

Trek Against Pancreatic Cancer participation and donation page

Carlos Cisco on Twitter

Elias Toufexis (L’ak) on Twitter

The story of Dread Pirate Roberts (from The Princess Bride)

Ten Star Trek Fun Facts From Michael Westmore’s Memoir


Anthony: The Town podcast: Which bidder is best for Paramount?

Laurie: Michael Westmore on The 7th Rule talking about “Allegiance”

Let us know what you think of the episode in the comments, and should you be so inclined, please review us on Apple.

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I hear you on missing stuff. “The Ultimate Computer” made the rounds on one of the legacy channels last night. In the opening scenes, McCoy, Kirk and Spock make their way to engineering to see Dr. Daystrom. After some conversation, McCoy starts going off on the tech, Daystrom looks square at him and asks “who are you”? In all the times I’ve seen this episode over the decades, Daystrom throwing shade at McCoy had never registered on me…..

I can hear it in William Marshall’s voice as I read it! Hey, it’s always fun to discover something new in TOS episodes I’ve seen a thousand times. There’s a great scene in “Wink of an Eye” where Kirk is asking McCoy if he’s going crazy and Nurse Chapel is totally eavesdropping in the background… it’s so funny! I think I only noticed it for the first time a few years ago.

Great podcast per usual!

I agree with most of the thoughts about Discovery and per usual agree with Laurie this was the weakest of the season so far. There were just waaay too many missed opportunities, not very much happening and clear it was very much shot on a budget.

But it is cool to see the Breen back. That was a big plus.

But I really enjoyed the section where you guys talked about how Discovery was originally trying to avoid canon it’s first year compared to today and be more its own thing. I have been saying this forever now and believe Discovery was originally just a reboot but simply not called that. Everything about that first season just felt so off from Trek of old.

They were clearly trying to reboot the franchise for a different time and audience and move away from the old style and canon of the classic shows.

But I think they really underestimated how much fans wanted the old style and canon back and panicked once the complaints flowed in and why we got Spock and Pike the next season and Picard was announced after that.

I have also said this before as well but if Discovery was a bigger success than the other shows would be in its image, both look and style. Instead they been running from it with the other shows.

SNW is a direct spin off and yet it feels and acts like the Roddenberry/Berman era of shows being episodic again, A and B stories and doing alien/anomaly/crisis of the week. There is not a single episode (OK maybe the musical lol) that couldn’t fit into any of the old shows TOS-ENT.

It is ironic the new era tried to be something different from Berman Trek just to basically be that again with shows like LDS, Prodigy, Picard season 3 and SNW. It just proves A. nostalgia is always a strong tool and B. Old fans ultimately still control this franchise for better or for worse.

My personal take on SNW is that they’re not getting the canon balance right either. They rely too heavily on TOS instead of forging their own path more. It’s why I’ve been so happy with Discovery’s approach this season, particularly when they take something we don’t know a lot about but have heard of and then add to it. SNW has all the ingredients to tell brand-new stories with new aliens and characters, and I hope they start doing more of that and less leaning back into TOS.

Oh yeah fully agree. I think you know my feelings on SNW and while I certainly like the show it’s canon issues really frustrates me and I really think they are overdoing the TOS fan service.

But I was never surprised about the latter. I actually predicted Kirk would show up on the first season finale way before we were told Kirk would be on the show itself. I figured they were going to make it more a TOS ‘prequel’ than a Pike show and sadly proven right.

But I truly truly hope we don’t get a TOS show when SNW is over. They may do it but I really hope they do something different and more original if there is a spin off. I just have zero interest in reliving the show and so far not a fan of Wesley’s Kirk at all, so even less so.

As I’m sure you know, I’m with you on that one!

It is weird that Discovery was trying to evade Trek canon when the whole first season plot revolved around a war with the Klingons, followed by a journey to the Mirror Universe. The central character is Spock’s adopted sister, and because of that we encounter Sarek and Amanda. Also Harry Mudd is prominent in the season, and the season ends with the appearance of the Enterprise.

RIght? It was a weird mish-mosh of what they leaned into (as the saying goes) and what they wanted to avoid. I will say I loved the choices they made with Amanda.

Hi Tony and Laurie. I felt compelled to thank you both for the podcast. You put a lot of work into each episode despite currently not getting much in the way of feedback or comments. I can’t help but notice that in general, comments across the Discovery articles seem quite low in terms of numbers compared to previous shows. In particular, Picard S3 where for example, some episode reviews garnered +600 comments, so many in fact, that I could only get round to reading a fraction of them. Perhaps Discovery is more niche than previous Trek series.

While I did enjoy last weeks episode, watching Discovery for me still feels a bit like watching The Cage. It’s labelled Start Trek and has Trek iconography scattered throughout and yet IMO it lacks the warmth and connection I felt towards other series.

Thank you, Scott! Appreciate the comment. It’s true I am greedy for comments and we don’t seem to get a lot of them, or reviews on Apple. It sometimes feels like we are just out there in the void! I am always interested to hear what people think of the podcast, what they’d like us to do more of or less of.

I would really like the Shuttlepod back on a regular basis. It was cathartic for me because I felt that it aligned with my view of Star Trek in general, whereas with All Access, I like you both and enjoy listening to you, but I’m frequently disagreeing with your opinions on these shows and the state of the franchise.

So would I! They have a lot of schedules to wrangle. We do try to have them on our podcast whenever they’re free.

The irony for me Laurie is that I actually do try to post in every podcast discussion and there is always so much I want to say. But a lot of the times I don’t post until a few days later since I don’t always have time to listen to it right away. But when I do it looks like everyone has already moved on so I just don’t always bother.

There was a podcast you guys made maybe a month ago that I had so much to say I literally wanted to make a five point post to counter all the discussions you guys said in it lol. But by the time I could sit down and write it it was nearly a week later and I thought what was the point when there were only a few posts and I figured no one would even see it by then so didn’t bother.

It is obviously true there are fewer posts for the podcast but I think mostly due to the fact everything you guys talk about are usually things that has already been discussed ad nauseam on the boards like the latest episode review. You guys are going over news that’s already been posted so people have had their say about it and usually not a lot more to add; unless there is a specific point made in the podcast itself that’s been highlighted for the first time.

But I truly love listening to it and listen to every one of them. I make a comment about 60% of the time but as said the discussions dry up so quickly here that after a few days it just doesn’t seem worth it unfortunately.

But you guys definitely have advid listeners who enjoy listening to your thoughts. I’m certainly one of them especially since I agree with nearly all your thoughts lol.

So glad to hear it. Obviously we talk about stories that are already up on the site, so the discussions are already happening. I get it! I just always hope that if people like things we do or don’t like things we do, they’ll let us know. (Like the way we review shows; is it bothersome that we just jump all over the place and don’t go from beginning to end?)

Hi Laurie. How about you and Tony team up with the Shuttle pod crew to do an end of season Discovery review and also a look back at the series; highs, lows and legacy. By the way I totally agree about your SNW comments. I really enjoy the show and think the cast is terrific but would like them to explore new ground far more than they currently do.

Most of them don’t watch Discovery! But we will definitely do that topic when the show is done, and hopefully Matt can join us for it.

I’m very surprised to hear that your colleagues (and for me great podcasters) don’t watch Discovery. I have to say that if such knowledgeable and learned ST experts don’t find it worth watching (and I’m sure for their own very good reasons), what chance did the show really have. I know that my UK Trek family have long since bailed, most exiting at the end of S3.

“Most of them don’t watch Discovery.”

Wow that sort of says it all when dedicated Trek fans who have their own podcast don’t bother to watch the show. I could be wrong but I don’t think Mark Altman watches it either or he just doesn’t talk about it on his podcast.

From what I gather so called nu-Trek isn’t Altman et al’s bag at all. In contrast they were huge fans of Picard S3 (I am too). The Blu-ray is wonderful by the way.

People like me are guilty of not often commenting on the podcast, but I LOVE the podcast, and look forward to it every week!! I will try and do better! Please keep up the great work!!!

Thank you so much, Phil! That put a smile on my face.

A lot of people have been pointing out the lower discussions about Discovery this season. It really is noticable especially compared to the shows first three seasons which were much more active to say the least.

And yes compared to Picard season 3 is night and day. I went and looked up that seasons episode 5 discussion as a comparison and that got around 450 comments vs Discovery’s current episode 5 that only has around 110 comments currently. And what’s crazy is that is the highest number of posts so far all season.

So yeah it’s definitely a lack of discussions here and all across the bigger sites as well. It doesn’t mean people aren’t watching it obviously but it’s also clear there is much less passion for the show today, especially one that is ending very soon.

Good points. I’ll be interested to see the streaming viewing figures if they are made available.

What we have found is that there are some people who come rushing to all the Discovery posts to tell us how much they hate it, and we are being more vigilant about getting rid of those comments. If someone watches the show and hates it, fair! But there are a lot of comments from people who just want to shit on its existence (and clearly aren’t watching it), so those go, as well as anything racist or homophobic, which obviously happens a lot with this show too.

Yeah I understand but I don’t think that alone is the reason for less posts either because as I said it’s down everywhere else I post and lurk. That includes TrekCre, Reddit, Trek BBS etc. It’s a very obvious gap. Reddit is the more obvious because those posts usually go on the thousands when an episode is reviewed.

For example the latest episode Mirrors has around 400 posts which sounds decent but every episode review in season 4 usually had double that or more. Some got into the thousands.

Maybe it’s just been off the air too long. It has been two years.

Could be. I saw a Tweet from Patrick Kwok-Choon (Rhys) saying they filmed it so long ago, he doesn’t even remember what happened!

In his defense: It’s not like he’s getting a lot of particularly memorable material ;-)

Lol yeah.

I agree with Tony about them leaving the map… When Burnham left her quarters she just left the map on the desk, and I was thinking just that. I mean, what if the cleaning lady breaks it or just moves it somewhere. They do that, they break things and don’t tell you, figuring you won’t notice. They have to think about those things.