Collins Talks Star Trek Villain Make-up + TrekMovie Adds More Detail | TrekMovie.com
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Collins Talks Star Trek Villain Make-up + TrekMovie Adds More Detail August 20, 2008

by TrekMovie.com Staff , Filed under: Spoilers,ST09 Cast , trackback

Last week, actor Clifton Collins, Jr. confirmed the race that he and his fellow villains (including Eric Bana) will be playing in the new Star Trek movie. This week, the actor is talking about their make-up routine and what it was like working with director, J.J. Abrams. Plus TrekMovie has a bit more detail on what the villains will look like. [spoilers]

 

 

Clifton Collins on working with J.J. Abrams:

He’s an amazing human being, a great family man and a great artist. He loves to have fun, and we were working 18-hour days.

Collins on the Romulan make-up process:

It took, on a good day, two and a half hours in makeup. On a bad day, four. I love hiding in all my roles, whether it’s an accent or physical mannerism … that’s the fun for me.

More on Romulans make-up
So why was Collins spending all that time in the chair? TrekMovie previously confirmed that the Romulan villains in the Star Trek movie would all be bald.


Collins during (L, February 4) and after the "Star Trek" shoot (R, July 22)
showing how he had to de-hair to be a Romulan

And the recent official Star Trek posters revealed that the Romulan leader Nero (Eric Bana) has a major tattoo on his forehead (see TrekMovie ‘re-colorized version below to get a closer look). However it isn’t just Nero who is sporting ink. TrekMovie has confirmed that all the Romulans (including Collins) have tattoos and that that tattoos vary from character to character. Hence the need for all that make-up chair time for Collins.


TrekMovie’s ‘recolorized’ version of the official Nero image,
giving a better view of his tattoo

More from Collins at the National Ledger

 

Collins is known for his roles in such films as Traffic, The Last Castle, and Capote. In addition to Star Trek, his other upcoming films include the historical baseball drama The Perfect Game and the action sequel Crank 2: High Voltage.

 

Comments

1. Andy Patterson - August 20, 2008

What do the women look like?

2. Sean4000 v8.04 "Hardy Heron" - August 20, 2008

Sounds good. Can’t wait!

3. Jordan - August 20, 2008

I’m curious about the women too, although I doubt we’ll see any along with these guys.

4. StarTrekkie - August 20, 2008

ummm.. I’m looking at that poster again. Does he not have pointed ears?

5. Holger - August 20, 2008

We have seen plenty of badass Klingon women, and even badass Andorian women. It’s time for badass Romulan women!

6. The Gorn Identity - August 20, 2008

So, in this film do ALL Romulans sport tattoos and have bald heads or is this just Nero’s group?

7. Stringfellow Hawke - August 20, 2008

I can’t imagine a 4 hour tat job. Details!

8. DIGINON - August 20, 2008

Maybe Romulan women stay at home and cook dinner for their badass husbands :-)
Hey, don’t judge me. If all Humans are equal in the future, we at least need some good old sexist aliens to fill the gap.

9. Out There - August 20, 2008

The Romulan women all wear pink, polka-dotted poodle skirts.

What can I say, everything comes back into style eventually — even in the 23rd and 24th centuries.

10. Jackson Roykirk - August 20, 2008

#6, #4

I think that Nero’s group will be Romulans-in-hiding, meaning that no one will know they are Romulans, hence the tatoos (disguises?) — and hence Nero’s non-pointed (and mutilated?) ears.

This would fit in nicely with TOS, since Kirk and crew supposedly never knowingly saw what a Romulan looked like until “Balance of Terror”.

11. Enterprisingguy - August 20, 2008

I wonder if the bald head and mutilated ear(s?) are some form of humiliation for failing in something because of Kirk. Hence the desire for revenge. It would not be unlike what is done to a Muslim man when shaving off his beard to shame him in front of his enemies! Just a thought!

12. StarTrekkie - August 20, 2008

@10 – that’s a good theory. a very good theory. I’ve been wondering about the whole issue of seeing the romulans for the first time in TOS as well.

Maybe they’ll even have the slight ridges on their forhead initially too. I just think it would be great if we can see them in full romulan garb, complete with slight head ridges and pointed ears. Then, before they go back in time they do all that you just said, remove their ridges and pointed ears and don tatoos.

13. The Gorn Identity - August 20, 2008

#10

That’s what I was thinking as well.

14. Closettrekker - August 20, 2008

#10—“I think that Nero’s group will be Romulans-in-hiding, meaning that no one will know they are Romulans, hence the tatoos (disguises?) — and hence Nero’s non-pointed (and mutilated?) ears.”

I would not discount that possibility, but I think the tatoos represent these Romulans’ membership in a rogue faction that is disenchanted with the changing political climate on Romulus (facilitated to some degree by Ambassador Spock) and acting without the sanction of the Praetor and the Romulan Senate. I also think that Nero has only the one mutilated ear and it is possibly the result of a battle injury.

“This would fit in nicely with TOS, since Kirk and crew supposedly never knowingly saw what a Romulan looked like until ‘Balance of Terror’.”

Again, that is possible, but there is no clear indication yet that any humans or their allies from the 23rd Century will actually see the villains prior to the events of “BOT”, or at all for that matter. If they do come into visual contact, it could just as easily be after “BOT”. The story takes place in different parts of the timeline, and we could see the story jump from childhood to Academy graduation to Pike’s command and later to the Enterprise post-“BOT” (after all, if Chekov is at the navigator’s console, that would make more sense).

15. Closettrekker - August 20, 2008

#12—-Please…no ridges.

16. Closettrekker - August 20, 2008

#11—“I wonder if the bald head and mutilated ear(s?) are some form of humiliation for failing in something because of Kirk. Hence the desire for revenge.”

Who says he must have a desire for revenge against Kirk? Since Nimoy is in the film, and Nimoy’s Spock has a much deeper history with the Romulans, would it not make more sense that Nero’s quarrel is with Spock rather than Kirk? After all, the Kirk revenge thing has been done (“Court-Martial”, TWOK), and by the post-Nemesis period (where the film begins), Kirk has been dead for quite some time.
I think that a rogue faction of Romulans would have much more reason to seek revenge against Spock than anyone else—and it would make more sense in a Spock-centric film.

17. sean - August 20, 2008

There’s obviously some kind of ridge on Nero, though. Not as pronounced as the silly TNG ones, but clearly his nose has something added there.

Also, for everyone mentioning strong Romulan women, TNG & DS9 had several (my favorite being Commander Toreth from ‘Face of the Enemy’), and let’s not forget the Romulan Commander from ‘The Enterprise Incident’!

18. British Naval Dude - August 20, 2008

instead o’ Romulans why couldn’t they have gone another route?
How aboot a crazed machine thinkin’ it be God that… uhhhh…
No wait! An angry Mexican who takes o’er a starship and…. hmmmm…
Some bloke that can control all metal through magnetism…. no, huh?… well, how aboot whales- great big ol’ whales that… uhhhhhh…

Oh! I gots it- Pandas!

Once thought docile and nuetral, the wiley panda has broken free of its imprisonment, chewing up all treaties, and unleashing galactic ursine hell. In an act that could destroy the very bamboo-like fiber of the Federation, the Panda-monium Bear Empire sparks war by attacking Enterprise.

CHRIS PINE: Oh for God’s sake- they’re just cute little bears… that’s right isn’t it? They are bears, not just really big raccoons? Spock?

ZACHIE QUINTO: My older self from the future has informed me that the Pandas pose a perilous pandemic-like threat.

CHRIS PINE: Older self from the future…? Uh, Spock, maybe you should report to McCoy.

ZACHIE QUINTO: No, it’s true… these bald Romulans are really trouble.

CHRIS PINE: Bald Rom-what’s-its? Don’t you mean Pandas?

KARL URBAN: My God, Spock- next the Ghost of Christmas Past will pay you a visit; tell you to sing about Hobbits with hippies.

CLIFTON COLLINS: Four hours to put on a bear suit! And God, it’s hot in here!

KIKI KLING (real panda extra): grrrrruuuuuu… (dies from eating catered lunchmeats imported from China)

JJ: Oh no! Quick- there were never any pandas here! Everyone start saying “Romulan” instead! Yeah… Romulan…

BND: You, uh… gunna eat that?

19. Ed - August 20, 2008

1&3, The women have tats & piercings. Part of the new Star Trek: Miami Ink edition.

I like the idea of the tattoos, make them look a bit more sinister. Wonder when we will start to see these (the tattoos) show up on convention goers.

20. StarTrekkie - August 20, 2008

@12 – They added ridges to Klingons and nobody complained. What’s with the TOS purism here. I certainly hope the canon established in TNG and beyond is respected, in fact, it almost has to be since the plot starts in the 24th century.

21. StarTrekkie - August 20, 2008

@13 – ha ha ha, I love your screen name!

22. Closettrekker - August 20, 2008

#20—Although I did not like TNG, I am by no means a TOS purist. I do not mind physical changes to the Klingons (behavioral changes were a different story), but Romulans looked like Vulcans in TOS and that was a big part of their backstory. In fact, at a glance, the two races were indistinguishable. I’m not giving you any good reason why I don’t want ridges on the Romulans other than the fact that I just don’t like them… JJ Abrams can do what he wants.
Perhaps Sean (#17)is right, and the ridges will be far less pronounced than in TNG—making it much more believable. A few thousand years of separation could vary the evolution of the two species in such a subtle way, but it has always been difficult for me to buy that radical departure from the physical appearance of the Vulcans.

Then again, maybe Nero’s ridges are far less pronounced because he is half-Vulcan….Hmmm…I smell Spock’s dirty work in “The Enterprise Incident”.

23. CmdrR - August 20, 2008

As long as they don’t have rubbery foreheads and enough green pancake makeup on to service the Savannah IHOP on St. Paddy’s Day… then, I’ll be happy. Tattoos and Tyson’d ears? Sure, why not?

Man, these “spoilers” are tiny. I want a big old “I am your father James,” said Hillary Clinton – sized spoiler.

24. George - August 20, 2008

I for one am glad they are going in a different direction with the Romulans, as long as they have to pointy ears is all that really matters. I for one didn’t like the TNG Romulans with the forehead and the wigs.

25. Closettrekker - August 20, 2008

#23—How about, “You’re my father, Spock”?

26. ster j - August 20, 2008

#22. Then again, maybe Nero’s ridges are far less pronounced because he is half-Vulcan….Hmmm…I smell Spock’s dirty work in “The Enterprise Incident”.

Oh, gawd, I only thought it but you HAD to go and post it! Shades of Nemesis! NOOOOO!!!

27. THX-1138 The Fandom Menace - August 20, 2008

Ummm…..I ‘aint seein’ ridges. Are ya’ jes makin’ thet up?

And a note to Clifton Collins Jr.:

Stop talking. You’re making it worse.

28. Closettrekker - August 20, 2008

#26—“Oh, gawd, I only thought it but you HAD to go and post it! Shades of Nemesis! NOOOOO!!!”

I’ve been posting it for a year now, along with many others. I don’t see “shades of Nemesis”. I cannot remember much about that movie, but wasn’t Shinzon a jealous (human) clone of Picard? That’s hardly the same as a disgruntled half-Romulan love child of Spock’s with a serious axe to grind.

29. Bronto Dan - August 20, 2008

@ 10 and others

I agree that the missing ear part can help keeping continuity but with time travel you can stil make it fit… let me explain. Warning time travel explantion will follow, it’s easy to get lost now. ;)

So I assume that Spok (Nimoy’s Spock) will also travel back in time. That spock is the one from the TOS episode Balance of terror. Where all the crew didn’t know about the romulans. This is the episode will saw (most of us)

After the movie witch involves time travels we could say that this time travel alter the way Kirk and company will evolves, so the event in that episode (balance of terror) would be change. So they would have to make a new balance of terror ;) What i’m trying to explain, is after the movie, Nimoy’s Spock would not have know about the romulans, but Quinto’s Spock will know about them when the event in BoT will happen.

Do I make sense or did I lost everybody with time travel mechanics… I must say I’m little dizzy myself :-P

30. Wes - August 20, 2008

Where are the pointed ears?

31. Wes - August 20, 2008

True! They are supposed to never have seen a Romulan! In Balance of Terror! Ent. did a good job at keeping with that!

32. Norman - August 20, 2008

maybe Nero will look fine once he takes one of Harry Mudd’s ‘magic’ pills.

HARRY MUDD FOR PRESDIENT!!!

(Pass the tranya please…)

33. Closettrekker - August 20, 2008

#31—see post #14.

34. CmdrR - August 20, 2008

Tattoos and pointed ears or not, Romulans are frakkin’ green-blooded. They’d have the same verdant palour as Spock, or a philodendron.

35. British Naval Dude - August 20, 2008

A panda’s whiteness can get a bit emerald when they be rollin’ fur too long in tha’ grass and fresh bamboo…

36. Closettrekker - August 20, 2008

#34—And probably will in STXI…

37. StarTrekkie - August 20, 2008

Well the whole never seen Romulans before BOT thing *can* sort of be explained away. Because we’re dealing with time travel here. Their only concern will be to not significantly alter the timeline so that the events of BOT never take place.

38. Andreas -horn- Hornig - August 20, 2008

hi, perhaps they have cutted ears, because they don’t want to have an obvious connection to their vulcan ancestors.

39. Jackson Roykirk - August 20, 2008

Again, since some seem to be confused about what I’m saying…

…Just because Quinto, Pine and crew may see Nero face-to-face, they may never find out he is a Romulan. This would be absolutely consistent with ‘Balance of Terror’.

Even BOT hinted that there could have been Romulan spies living on Vulcan right under the noses of the unwitting Vulcans.

40. Closettrekker - August 20, 2008

#37—-I’m with you, there. I don’t want to see the 5-year mission disappear altogether as we know it. I think it is possible for there to be some subtle changes in the timeline (assuming of course that Nimoy’s Spock is only partially successful in disrupting Nero’s plan) without altering the outcomes of the adventures we have already seen.

As for “BOT”, even IF there is visual contact between humans and Romulans which takes place chronologically before that lone Bird Of Prey crosses the Neutral Zone and attacks the Earth outposts—-the only thing which will likely change is that Kirk and company would not be so stunned to see “Spock’s cousins” on the viewscreen. There is no reason why the rest of the story wouldn’t play out much as it did before (since Nero’s gang is from the 24th Century, and would probably have nothing to do with 23rd Century Romulans, unless that is part of their interference).

41. Norman - August 20, 2008

39 – “Even BOT hinted that there could have been Romulan spies living on Vulcan right under the noses of the unwitting Vulcans”

So, they are like microscopic Romulans? i think i’d pick a better place to hang out – like the tip of the ear…

42. Closettrekker - August 20, 2008

#39—-“Even BOT hinted that there could have been Romulan spies living on Vulcan right under the noses of the unwitting Vulcans.”

And there were, long before that—-as was established in ENT.

“Just because Quinto, Pine and crew may see Nero face-to-face, they may never find out he is a Romulan. ”

That is assuming that the reason for their appearance is disguise. Nero may only have the one mangled ear, and the facial art symbolic of their solidarity in membership within a rogue faction of the RSE, led by Nero.

The young Kirk, Spock, etc. do not necessarily even have to see the villains, and certainly not before the events of BOT. That part of the story (if there is any visual contact at all) could take place chronologically after BOT.

43. Joe Schmoe - August 20, 2008

Shoot, circumcising a baby is considered a minor procedure. One would think it would be no problem surgerically altering a Romulan to not have pointed ears.

Look outside the box. These guys could be Romulans without pointed ears, and it could be explained away with one sentence of dialog.

44. Closettrekker - August 20, 2008

#43—The problem I see with that is that a 24th Century surgical procedure wouldn’t likely leave the ear so mangled. I think it is more likely that it is a battle injury which he refuses to repair, or the result of something that happened to him, of which Nero has a psychological need to remind himself on a daily basis.

45. The Underpants Monster - August 20, 2008

He was run over by a chariot, and now has a charioteer.

46. Closettrekker - August 20, 2008

#45—-That would certainly conform to the whole Romulan/Roman allegorical theme, but what would a 23rd-24th Century chariot look like? LOL.

47. Spock's Brain - August 20, 2008

#17 You’re very observant. Note the prominent shadow to the left of the bridge of the nose. The left eye looks more deep set than on humans relative to the nose.

48. Closettrekker - August 20, 2008

#47—I see it also… after a closer look. This tells me one of two things:

1) Nero is of mixed heritage;
or
2) STXI Romulans have their ridges toned down a bit.

49. Joe Schmoe - August 20, 2008

#44

Yeah I know what you are saying about the mangles ear. But I mean that in general there could be Romulans running around in Kirk’s time without pointy ears. And no one would ever know they were Romulans.

It fits with canon, and it also makes practical sense.

50. Adam Cohen - August 20, 2008

Darth Maul tattoos! They denote “evil” apparently.

51. Thomas Jensen - August 20, 2008

Vulcan’s and Romulans were once from the same race, so why the new ridges in TNG? Because they could. It was in the budget, so they used the money. The appliances looked goofy and didn’t match to what had been seen before.

I think all these cosmetic changes in the aliens just complicates things, some races are ‘humanoid’ some not. In TOS the two major adversary races were so, and that made them easy to relate to as they had the same basic general psychological make-up as humans.

And the idea that many of the races we saw in TOS might be related was only touched upon, not developed, but I thought that could have been interesting if done well.

I’m not so much into the aliens of the spin-off series, I don’t relate to goofy heads and obvious make-up.

Perhaps the ‘new’ Romulans will be something akin to humans once again.

52. Decker's Stubble - August 20, 2008

Bald with tats, eh? Maybe they’re refugees from a Discovery Channel show about motorcycles or muscle cars:

“Tonight, on Reman County Choppers, Nero builds a custom hog for the Praetor. Meanwhile, Clamidius trips into a pool of used energy plasma, with hilarious consequences.”

Or, maybe all the biker bars on Romulus were closed and forced these lovable ne’er-do-wells to take to space.

53. Galaxy Quest 2 - August 20, 2008

Bald with tatoos on bald head?
Seems more like a current action film heavy than classic Trek villian.
Very Rock and Roll like Khan from Trek 2

54. Brad - August 20, 2008

Maybe Nero has yet to get his head caught in a mechanical rice picker…

55. The Gorn Identity - August 20, 2008

#13, StarTrekkie…

Thanks for the compliment!

56. Jay - "The Real Jim Kirk" - August 20, 2008

I liked TNG Romulans, they still looked like Vulcans, but had ridges, why not, these two races have been separated for hundreds of years, surely some evolution has taken place??

I reckon that JJ just wants Nero and co to look as bad ass as possible, and perhaps they are a rogue unit, and maybe Nero is Spocks love child, (which would makes sense really, and make for a good storyline) but at the end of the day, the real question is, what forces them to go back in time and start making sh!t go down in the 23rd century???

Is it coz they iz rommies??

57. Richard Daystrom - August 20, 2008

British Naval Dude…. I want what ever the hell it is your drinking man!! FUNNNNY!!

58. Spock's Brain - August 20, 2008

#56 “I liked TNG Romulans, they still looked like Vulcans, but had ridges, why not, these two races have been separated for hundreds of years, surely some evolution has taken place??”

Vulcans and Romulans had been separated by 1000s of years and evolution takes place over 100,000s to millions of years. It never made any sense for the Romulans to be so U.G.L.Y.

Seacrest out!

59. Norm - August 20, 2008

I’m so sick of the face tattoo for the bads guys in every movie! Very uninspiring. Hollywood revamp its makeup departments.

60. Commodore Redshirt - August 20, 2008

RE: 56. Jay – “The Real Jim Kirk”
“I liked TNG Romulans, they still looked like Vulcans, but had ridges, why not, these two races have been separated for hundreds of years, surely some evolution has taken place??”

Well, I don’t think that evolution works that quickly on something as major as skull bone formation. And the whole point was that these two races were almost identical.
Many people have had a problem with the “face putty of the week” that latter-day Trek fell into. To me, the worst example of this was when someone decided that if it worked for the Klingons, then why not Romulans?!?!
[ I don’t think it worked for Klingons either.]

61. Xai Ping - August 20, 2008

At least he didn’t refer to himself and the “renegade” Romulans as “pirates” again. That was not a smart interview.
As others have theorized…. I too like the possibilty that these Rommies have mutilated ears to (a.) hide their genetic heritage (and by doing so protect the BOT storyline) and/or (b.) setting them apart from the Romulan “norm” (as in “bad-ass”)

______

Roberto Orci…. come in, Roberto…. Can you confirm or deny that we’ll see some truly different alien races in XI?

And…. if I may ask.
For what you’ve seen so far… does JJ’s (nearly) finished product resemble the writers vision of this story closely or “just somewhat”?

62. the king in shreds and tatters - August 20, 2008

58.

The Rape of the Sabine… er, Reman Women

63. The Last Maquis - August 20, 2008

ALRIGHT!!! ……..I’ll admit it. I like TNG era Romulan Women.
There I said It!! Yes ridges and lame Grey uniforms. are you happy? Wait ….was this article about….Heh. Oh right uh, yep Head
Tattoos….at least they’re committed. got the whole area covered, unlike lame ass Chakotay. He’s So UFP whipped, and he calls himself a Maquis.

Hell I’m a Rebel, Son.

64. Closettrekker - August 20, 2008

#56—-“I liked TNG Romulans, they still looked like Vulcans, but had ridges, why not, these two races have been separated for hundreds of years, surely some evolution has taken place??”

I always assumed that the exodus from Vulcan was much more than hundreds of years (more like over a thousand), and during the time near or immediately after the end of the last of Vulcan’s devastating wars and the Time Of Awakening. I assumed that they did not like or embrace the philosophy of Surak and wished to pursue their own destiny in keeping with their natural tendancy to be both passionate and violent. I’m sure that the “Romulans” would have begun to experience some physical evolution over the next thousand years which might distinguish them from their Vulcan ancestors, depending upon the environment on the planets they eventually settled on (Romulus and Remus, lol), and how they differed from Vulcan. It would seem natural that they would choose a physical environment that was not too unlike the one they had been accustomed to, however, changes in diet and other external factors would contribute to their continued natural evolution as well.

To carry this even further—although there is nothing in canon that I am aware of to support this, it also seems reasonable that the group of people who left Vulcan would be relatively small (by sheer practicality of logistics), and that their Spartanistic culture would demand that they reproduce at a significant rate. It is logical (no pun intended) to assume then that they may have determined at least one conquered race to be physically worthy of inter-breeding. This would seem necessary, as looking only to their own limited number of females would not likely produce enough of a population increase to sustain the number of warriors necessary to forge an empire. That may also be why some Romulans have slightly different features from others and their Vulcan cousins. Just a thought…

65. LoyalStarTrekFan - August 20, 2008

64, an excellent explanation and well-thought out. For more information on the exodus from Vulcan to Romulus that the Romulans took around the “Time of Awakening” on Vulcan, according to Memory Alpha, the canon Star Trek wiki, you can visit http://www.memory-alpha.org or read the Rihannsu book series or the more recent “Vulcan’s Soul” book series. Both are excellent and provide well-developed ideas about the Romulan exodus from Vulcan.

I have some concern about all the Romulans wearing tattoos but there may be a point to it. Therefore we will have to wait until May 2009 to find out.

66. Romulan decency committee - August 20, 2008

Bald head with a tattoo?
He probably dropped out of school and likes to drink alot of beer.

67. Einstein Jones - August 20, 2008

Closetrekker – your explanations seem logical, but the flaw in your logic is the implausibility of breeding with another species. For that matter, all laws of biology make Spock an impossibility.

So if we have to accept that leap of faith, all your other logic falls to the wayside, because we’re playing by different, and not at all natural, rules. Logic cannot be given to that which is impossible.

In other words, the argument is moot. The explanation is science fantasy.

68. capt Mike - August 20, 2008

Remember that in the BOT episode. Styles said to Capt kirk. That there could be romulan spies aboard this ship. They invaded our space attacked our outpost and killed our men. So it is possible that nero may have helped in some way the bird of prey in in attacking earth outpost 2 and 3 and 4 and 8 and may have given the Romulan commander the shield freqency so there Plasma weapon could go right through the outpost shields and the Older spock was not in time to prevent that from Happening. That is one possible scenero that could have happend and of corse the rest of Spocks mission to Find nero and prevent him from doing more damage. What does everyone else think and my Scenerio.

69. CaptainRickover - August 20, 2008

After I read all that comments, I came up with another weird theory…

Spock, Kirk and McCoy already know how a Romulan looks like in BOT!! Remember that look, Kirk and Spock exchange after they have seen the Romulan Commander on screen and the reaction of the helm’s man (I allways forgot his name)? Besides, he was the only one who seems really shocked and he was the only one mistrusting Spock after that.

I watched that episode aigain when it was out on DVD and try to watched it with the possible background of STAR TREk XI and I have to say: It worked (for me at last). Kirk & Co knew how Romulans look like, but they keep it secret because of possible political turbulences that could have altered the timeline and perhaps they followed the advice of old Spock.

(Everything demands on the events in Star Trek XI, of course).

And about the ridges: Nero HAVE ridges, very small ones, but that are ridges. Or Eric Bana has a very unique nose :)

I guess that problem with the ridges on the Romulans is a matter of romulan body fashion. They where IN in the 22nd century, OUT in the 23rd century, again IN in 24th century and maybe OUT again in the late 24th, early 25th century :))

70. Smike van Dyke - August 20, 2008

Okay, let me get this straight. The Romulans in this movie wear tattoos because in JJ’s Trek all Romulans wear tattoos. It’s a different take on Trek and the entire Romulan culture and it’s got nothing to do with Romulans hiding their true appearance before BOT, renegade factions or other fanboy stuff like that. BOT doesn’t even exist in this version of Trek and JJ’s tattooed Romulans are the only Romulans around. It’s a completely different take on the universe altogether.

You know, talking about renegade factions, hiding pre-BOT Romulans etc. is like trying to come up with something like Ledger’s Joker being the cloned cousin of Nicholson’s Joker’s elder brother, just in order to fit both characters in one chronology. And no, Craig’s 007 is not the illegit son of Connery’s onenightstand with Pussy Galore…Won’t work.

JJ’s Trek is as distinct from Roddenberry’s Trek as Nolan’s Gotham is from Burton’s take, as Casino’s 007 is from Dr No’s 007! The old canon is history. This is a different Trek with tattood Romulans, different Klingons, a completely new NCC 1701, lots of gadgets you can’t even imagine in the old 24th century and and and…Throw that canon babble out of the airlock ASAP or you’ll be up for a major disappointment.

We’ll finally have to cope with that. The old Trek isn’t coming back…any fanboyish explanation won’t make a difference…

71. Einstein Jones - August 20, 2008

Smike van Dyke #70 – I always leave these things when people start talking canon. Nothing is more tiresome, because they refuse to get it. And it’s so simple – this is a new Trek. Stop being dense. It’s not going to fit perfectly into TOS history. If the writers had to take all of the possible “canon” violations they’d never get the story written.

God, it’s so useless. There IS no canon in Star Trek. Even in TOS there are “canon” violations. There was never meant to be any canon. The story must serve each episode’s needs, not the collective, and certainly not ridiculous anal retentive canonists who would pick at the scab until it bleeds.

I hope the Romulans have big buck teeth and genitalia on their faces.

72. AJ - August 20, 2008

While it’s been devated to death, I agree with Closettrekker that the motive for Nero & Co.’s trip back has solely to do with Spock. Perhaps Nero believes that. without the influence of Kirk, Spock will never push his own limits to become who he is in the 24th century. Yet, this would require an intimate knowledge of Spock’s history on the part of Nero, which would then imply a certain closeness to him…a rebellious son, perhaps.

I hope the Roms ditch the 1980’s shoulderpads and Greek barber bowl haircuts.

73. Closettrekker - August 20, 2008

#67—“Closetrekker – your explanations seem logical, but the flaw in your logic is the implausibility of breeding with another species. For that matter, all laws of biology make Spock an impossibility.”

That is based soley upon the “laws of biology” which we hold as true today. Star Trek’s assertion that Spock’s existence is possible in the 23rd Century is no different from its assertion that warp drive is also possible in the future. If you can accept the use of transporters in Trek, then you can accept that the future holds more knowledge of “biology” that may very well prove that some of what we believe to be true now is actually not. Are the laws of biology someow more untouchable to you than the laws of physics?

“So if we have to accept that leap of faith, all your other logic falls to the wayside, because we’re playing by different, and not at all natural, rules. Logic cannot be given to that which is impossible.”

I firmly disagree with that statement. Logic still very much applies to the development and progression of the story, which is what was being discussed in the post to which you replied. The kind of logical story development I was talking about makes it easier to relate to for some of us. Whether interspecies breeding, warp drive, or transporters are actually plausible by the laws of science we know to be true today or not is irrelevant. In the Star Trek Universe, those things are possible.
There is nothing wrong with imagining a backstory to the story’s villains which makes sense, if only in the context of what you refer to as “science fantasy”. It makes being a fan more fun for some people. And if you are not one of those people, then that is okay too.

74. Xai Ping - August 20, 2008

#71 Einstein
I generally agree with you, but please don’t refer to other posters as “dense” or the like.

————————-

Until I’ve seen the movie, my take on things is that this takes place in an alternate universe. James Kirk, Spock, the crew, the E … all are there, just slightly different.
The Trek Universe we know is ending due to some catastrophe. Our Spock attempts to set things right and ends up in this “new” Trek Universe and decides the same thing must not happen here.

As for Rommie ridges…. I think it wasn’t evolution as much as genetic manipulation. Remember in TNG… the Rommies “disappeared” for many years. They were up to something…

75. ByGeorge - August 20, 2008

Don’t care what aliens look like but if they want to capture the younger audience 13- 25 YO they should give sexy, nice looking aliens. It is hard to interest myteen-aged kids in ST if they look at the characters and see ridiculous Comic Strip looking incarnations. Part of TOS’s appeal was its sexy looking Vulcans, Romulans and swarthy, but sexy Klingons. The younger traget audience often has outgrown comics and likes to look at sexy good looking guys and girls, not monsters anymore.

If we ever really do discover life on other planets who knows what the interbreeding species capability will be? They might just have very similar DNA to us. Since we have never discovered aliens it is foolish to make any assumptions about them or their DNA structures. We can’t base science on something we have never seen or studied. Leaves the field wide open for whatever fiction writers wish to write.

76. montreal paul - August 20, 2008

#70 Smike van Dyke…

Where did it say anywhere that all Romulans in JJ’s Trek have tattoos and those are the only romulans around??? You gotta get your facts straight.. notthing that you wrote about has ever been mentioned anywhere. Right now.. everything everone is saying is pure speculation. We get bits and pieces.

It really gets on my nerves when everyone is ready to dismiss this movie or shoot down anything is said because something isn’t EXACTLY as in was in the 1960’s analogue television show. If you are that ready to get so negative about this movie, then please, don’t go see it and go back to watching the original not remastered TOS on VHS where nothing is changed.

I don’t remember this much negativity when TWOK came out and they changed EVERYTHING… and it was THE best Trek movie. God.. give it a chance people. See it THEN judge it.

77. sean - August 20, 2008

I seem to recall TNG establishing the Romulan exodus as taking place at least 2000 years before the 24th Century (In ‘Gambit’, I think).

78. Einstein Jones - August 20, 2008

Sorry for being kind of mean. You’re right, and I’ll try harder. What I mean by the term “dense” is the seeming inability to hear that this is a new vision of Trek, and it won’t be following strict “canon.” They’ve said it. Yet people still persecute the film makers, and I hate to see them being destructive toward the film before they’ve even seen it.

That’s not what being a fan is to me. So I speak out about it. Now Closetrekker’s point about there being no harm in building backstory to explain something is correct, and those aren’t the people who bug me. I see the fun. But there are those for whom it is not done in fun, and that’s where that negative word I used comes into play.

Either way, I’m sorry.

79. Einstein Jones - August 20, 2008

Amen, Montreal Pau!

80. MrAtoz - August 20, 2008

Bald with tats….
Looks like a bad TNG reject.
This is major stumble imho

81. krikzil - August 20, 2008

>> don’t remember this much negativity when TWOK came out and they changed EVERYTHING…

You’re kdding right? At cons, oh the bitching about how militaristic Meyers made it!!!! That Spock died!

82. montreal paul - August 20, 2008

#81 – “You’re kdding right? At cons, oh the bitching about how militaristic Meyers made it!!!! That Spock died!”

Every movie has negativity attached to it… what i am saying is that they didn’t nitpick every minor detail.. disecting every word that the cast made and how they said it. What you heard about TWOK wasn’t anywhere near the negativity surrounding this movie.. I just wish people would wait until the movie comes out and people see it before they say that this movie is gonna flop bigtime. If people are gonna be that negative.. then it’s simple.. DON’T see it! Hey, if you see it and it sucks.. fine. Bitch and moan all you want. But see it THEN bitch and moan.

83. Closettrekker - August 20, 2008

#78—I also agree that Star Trek canon, which (IMO) should be fun and nothing more, gets twisted into an angry declaration of war against a filmmker (whose job it is to entertain, not to document actual events accurately). I have often debated here with those who contend that anything which contradicts some obscure piece of dialogue from 40 years ago will ruin this film, and will likely continue to do so.

It seems that some hold JJ Abrams to a much higher standard than they did Harve Bennett, Nick Meyer, or even Leonard Nimoy—all of whom share some degree of responsibility for violations of continuity in past Star Trek feature films.

As for whether STXI will follow “strict canon” (as if there has ever actually been such a thing) or not, here is STXI co-writer Roberto Orci’s quote from a conversation right here about that very subject:

“Anything which appears to violate canon will have a canon explanation”.

Take that as you choose… or for whatever it is worth to you. I choose to take it at face value, until I have reason to believe otherwise.
My guess is that something will set off those who live for flaming…but it will more likely be a violation of “fanon” rather than actual canon.

It may very well be that things which appear to violate canon will actually be the result of a subtly altered timeline.

84. Closettrekker - August 20, 2008

#81—And yet Spock’s death was perhaps the most powerful scene in ST feature film history, and to this day—Meyer’s”militarization” of TWOK helps make it arguably the most mainstream friendly Trek film to date. I can check online and pretty much guarantee that TWOK is playing in one of Houston’s theaters at least once every few months…and even my friends who know next to nothing about Star Trek know “Khaaaaaaaan!”

#82—And there was/is plenty of potential negativity over the dialogue and its contradictory nature with regard to continuity. Yet many of the same people who predict doom and gloom in STXI cover “potential” continuity errors won’t touch TWOK with that kind of scrutiny, or even seem to get offended when it is mentioned in some cases.

Abrams and company are, for some inexplicable reason, held to a higher standard.

85. Closettrekker - August 20, 2008

Sorry for the typo (“cover” should have been “over”)…

86. Thank The Prophets! - August 20, 2008

THERE IS NO RIDGE ON NEROS FACE THAT IS ERIC BANAS NATURAL FACIAL STRUCTURE!!

87. rmbg51 - August 20, 2008

I don’t think these guys are 24th century Romulans. They might be temporal agents for all we know.

88. Jay - "The Real Jim Kirk" - August 21, 2008

I must say that Closettrekker’s comments are the only ones i constantly agree with on all of these forums, kudos to you.

I must say that every has good opinions and great ideas on how these Romulans will fit in to the story, and i believe that Orci being the die-hard fan he is, he’ll ensure that canon is fully respected (even though this is a revamped trek)

On a separate note, does anyone know which episodes of Trek Orci told us to watch?? as I think this will indicate which line they are taking with the Rommies and may also indicate that these episodes are important to understand the storyline, hence the respect of canon.

89. Holger - August 21, 2008

#17: Of course you’re right that we’ve seen female Romulan starship commanders and officers, but by ‘badass’ I meant something like Suzie Plakson in ENT: Cease Fire, with martial arts and all that :-)

90. Cervantes - August 21, 2008

Mmmm, I reckon Collins might have made a better-looking ‘villain’ if his ‘Romulan’ had sported that hair and facial whiskers in the photo above, rather than a bald head and face tattoo….

91. miguelito1701 - August 21, 2008

Maybe the romulans are an equivalent to earth’s extinct Neanderthals. They also looked similar but different.
I think there is no logical explantion to the ridgelessness :) of the TOS Romulans.
Probably romulans were planned to look like they did in TNG, but that there was just not enough money to do it, like the make-up change of the Klingons.

Nero has slight ridges, one going up from his eyebrow, this temple looks strange and the tattoo may cover the center ridge.

92. Timncc1701 - August 21, 2008

Not all that comfortable with the revisionist Romulans. This movie would not be a success if it fails both to appeal to the masses and to Trek fans. We will see. JJ has a good track record, though. We will see.

93. Closettrekker - August 21, 2008

#88—-“…does anyone know which episodes of Trek Orci told us to watch?? as I think this will indicate which line they are taking with the Rommies and may also indicate that these episodes are important to understand the storyline, hence the respect of canon.”

I don’t recall him telling us to watch any episodes in particular, but he did cite several TOS episodes as ones used specifically as research (by the self-proclaimed “Supreme Court”) for the production of STXI. A couple of those episodes include “MNMHGB” and “BOT”. I would have to look back a year or so in the archives for the rest of that list.

#92—“Not all that comfortable with the revisionist Romulans.”

I don’t follow you there…I don’t think that the unique appearance of Nero and his cohorts indicates that the whole race has been at all “revised”, at least not definitively. The general plot of the story would suggest that these Romulans are members of some sort of “renegade” or “rogue” faction”. There is, as of yet, no reason to believe that the whole of the Romulan Star Empire would be depicted as wearing facial art and shaving their heads.

On the other hand, perhaps you are referring to the lack of more pronounced TNG-style ridges on these Romulans. If so, bear in mind that it was the TNG-era which provided a “revisionist” look at the Romulans. TOS-era Romulans were physically indistinguishable from Vulcans.

IMO, this gives JJ Abrams a fairly “wide berth” in how he chooses to present their appearance. Nero appears to have ridges which are far less pronounced, and that may very well be how the entire race is depicted. However, it should also be noted that there is always the possibility that Nero is the offspring of one Romulan parent, and another who is half-Vulcan, half-human:) …

94. Closettrekker - August 21, 2008

#91—“Probably romulans were planned to look like they did in TNG, but that there was just not enough money to do it…”

I don’t think there is any evdience that points to that as being “probable”.

Given the notion that Romulans are distant cousins of the Vulcans, there is no reason to believe that they were “planned” to look like anything but Vulcans.

“I think there is no logical explantion to the ridgelessness :) of the TOS Romulans.”

The logical explanation for that is simple. They were supposed to look like Mr. Spock, thus providing the drama on the bridge resulting from the reaction of Mr. Styles in particular. The question is not why TOS Romulans did not have ridges, but why TNG Romulans had them.

95. Dr. Soran - August 21, 2008

- The TNG romulans were the greatest..they were the best trek villans ever…..i like very much the way they where portrait…and..c’mon..G.R. himself was T.N.G. producer…so if he was agreed with the changes made it to klingons and romulans..why are this so called TOS purists so upset..?..They don’t like Cristopher Lloyd anymore…?!?….And ..let’s face it…the best trek alien ever is Worf…Personally i would liked to see him even in VOYAGER..in ENTERPRISE and in the new movie.. too…M. DORN is the best..he’s the man…Go home mr. old SPOCK..i don’t want to see you in the new movie..You are too emotionally for a vulcan…Starfleet sanitarium waits you..

96. Closettrekker - August 21, 2008

#95—-“The TNG romulans were the greatest..they were the best trek villans ever”

I disagree. IMO, the TOS-era Klingons (particularly Kor and Kang), along with Khan from “Space Seed” are the better Trek villains.

“And ..let’s face it…the best trek alien ever is Worf”

Again, that’s very presumptuous. IMO, the best Trek alien ever is Spock.

“Go home mr. old SPOCK..i don’t want to see you in the new movie..You are too emotionally for a vulcan…”

Well, that would make sense (too emotionally?) being that he is only half-Vulcan. And if you don’t want to see it, the great thing about that is—you don’t have to.

97. Closettrekker - August 21, 2008

#95—-“why are (these) so called TOS purists so upset..?..They don’t like Cristopher Lloyd anymore…?!?”

BTW, I don’t see many TOS purists on this thread…And I’m certainly not one of them. As a matter of fact, I like ENT second only to TOS. 24th Century Trek is just not my thing. And Christopher Lloyd’s performance as Kruge was good. I haven’t seen anyone complain about that. I could not care less about TMP-TUC’s depiction of the physical appearance of Klingons. Now, their behavior in TNG-era Trek being a massive departure from the sinister yet sophisticated Klingons of the TOS-era is another story…

98. Dr. Soran - August 21, 2008

- # 97 …Why you people don’t face the truth..TNG is the best part of TREK series…and Enterprise is following just.. PLANET OF THE APES..it has NOTHING to do with a real TREK series…i just want to see the 60’s way of thinking sinking in nothingness slowly…forever…

99. ByGeorge - August 21, 2008

#98 You are forgetting that Trek died. There is not interest to justify another movie or TV show. As great as you think Worf was – few agree with you. ST has become associated with nerdy, crazed fans,and people out-of-touch with reality and their ranks are diminishing. TOS was a more mainstream audience show. It was an exciting, adventureous, emotionally charged show. Later incarnations became a space opera that occurs in a fantasy world. Out of touch, weirded out, silly are all terms I’ve heard associated withmodern Trek. It didn’t used to be that way with TOS.

100. Doug in Kabul, Afghanistan - August 21, 2008

I posit that the deformed ears are the result of a mechanical rice picker…

101. Crewman Darnell - August 21, 2008

Yeah, I hope JJ and crew use this opportunity to tone down those overdone TNG Romulan foreheads. – Along with the bowl haircuts! I never caught on to the wisdom behind that “upgrade.” A cinema foe who resembles Moe Howard with a goose-egg just doesn’t appear very sinister. It also lessens the practicality of a Romulan posing as a Vulcan spy, which remains a useful plot device.

102. Closettrekker - August 21, 2008

#98—“Why you people don’t face the truth..TNG is the best part of TREK series…and Enterprise is following just.. PLANET OF THE APES..it has NOTHING to do with a real TREK series…”

Tough luck….It is only the return of the iconic characters of the Original Series which justifies a rebirth of Trek and the enormous budget given to JJ Abrams to make this film. Paramount is only willing to do it because it revolves around the larger-than-life characters of Kirk, Spock, McCoy, etc.

Keep watching your TNG reruns. You can still see it in syndication. The TNG-era never produced anything more than a slightly above medicocre film (even then only FC). The original characters are the only ones worthy of massive feature film treatment and the coveted May release date.

I have personally never paid to see a TNG-era film. There is nothing wrong with people choosing otherwise, but if this were another borish 24th Century Trek film, then my choice would be to stay home as usual. Yet to see Kirk, Spock, and Bones return to the big screen (and in their youth no less) I am planning to spend the $50 for my family to see this movie, and I’ll probably see it half a dozen times before its theater run is over. My cousin will do the same for his family, and probably see it just as many times as I do.

I have been waiting more than 20 years for these characters to be recast (since the end of TVH, although I went to see TFF and TUC anyway). TNG had me disappointed at Farpoint, and I lost interest until ENT (once I finally got to see it on dvd). I’ve enjoyed “some” of the DS9 reruns. I’m not a TOS purist (it would be difficult to be and still love the original films as much as I do), but the TOS characters are the only reason I am the least bit interested in this movie…

“i just want to see the 60’s way of thinking sinking in nothingness slowly…forever…”

In my mind, that’s exactly what killed the franchise….slowly. It is only Starfleet’s “first string” which can bring it back to life. The backups should remain on the bench.

103. Shatner_Fan_2000 - August 21, 2008

“In my mind, that’s exactly what killed the franchise….slowly. It is only Starfleet’s ‘first string’ which can bring it back to life. The backups should remain on the bench.”
-Closettrekker

Well said!

…I just praised Closettrekker. Somebody get me some Tri-ox compound!

104. Holger - August 21, 2008

#99: “There is not interest to justify another movie…”

What? Then we won’t see a movie May 8 2009?

“TOS was a more mainstream audience show.”

That’s why it was canceled after three seasons, and threatened with cancellation after each season.

105. Out There - August 21, 2008

#93

My brain starts to explode when people star using acronyms for TV episode titles. What the hey is MNMHGB? My Nutty Mother Has Gingivitis Breath?

By the way, I belong to an organization called PAA.

(People Against Acronyms)

106. ByGeorge - August 21, 2008

#104 I should have said – No interest in a TNG era film. Its dead.

TOS was canceled after 3 seasons but afterwards grew to become a phenomenon unprecedented in the TV world and inspired movies and spin-offs. Forty years later it is still inspiring.

Whats in this for me? I want my kids to become interested in ST – that is the ST that inspired many of us baby boomers to become scientists, programmers, engineers, physicians etc. It influenced a generation to better themselves, hope for the future and think. I can’t get my kids to watch any of the modern Treks and frankly, I find it hard to watch them myself.

My kids spent their own money to see the new Batman movie several times. And just what will that inspire them to do? Nothing. I want good, inspiring entertainment for them and TNG era Trek hasn’t done it. We could speculate as to why but I’m more interested in seeing them get their heads out of the Batman video games, watch Star Trek like I did decades ago, and become inspired to better themselves.

ST has to start appealing to the younger generation and become more mainstream. Unfortunately I see too much push to put it back into the niche-fan category.

107. Closettrekker - August 21, 2008

#103—-“…I just praised Closettrekker. Somebody get me some Tri-ox compound!”

Bring forth zi lirpa! If both survive zi lirpa, zi combat vil continue with zi ahn-woon!
(cue the music)…

#104—Television networks had not yet begun to use the current ratings system. It has been said many times by television executives and other “experts” that if they had known that the all important 18-35 year old male demographic was glued to their sets the whole time, it would not have been cancelled after only a 3 year run. That was not a failure of the show, but of the ratings system in place at the time. The enormous voice of the Trek fanbase in the 70’s is proof of that. It still remains one of the most successful shows in syndication history to this day.

#105—“WNMHGB” refers to the second pilot, titled “Where No Man Has Gone Before”…For obvious reasons, it is much easier to reference quickly by using the acronym. For future reference, “COTEOF” refers to “City On The Edge Of Forever”. Some of the episode titles are just rather long.

108. Out There - August 21, 2008

#107

OKIUWEYATAN!

(OK I understand what episode you are talking about now)

109. krikzil - August 21, 2008

Wow, what an interesting thread!

>>I always assumed that the exodus from Vulcan … I assumed that they did not like or embrace the philosophy of Surak and wished to pursue their own destiny in keeping with their natural tendancy to be both passionate and violent.

Me too Closettrekker. That’s the backstory I created in my head.

>.Paramount is only willing to do it because it revolves around the larger-than-life characters of Kirk, Spock, McCoy, etc.

As much as I love TOS and the Big 3, I think Paramount is throwing this money solely because of JJ and the writers — their success. I also think you sell TNG short. It’s not my fav either but TNG was huge in the 90s. I have been a con-goer my whole life and I was rather shocked at how it eclipsed TOS and overshadowed all the other Trek incarnations. But as does happen, it’s fanbase grew older and lost interest.

>>Every movie has negativity attached to it… what i am saying is that they didn’t nitpick every minor detail.. disecting every word that the cast made and how they said it. What you heard about TWOK wasn’t anywhere near the negativity surrounding this movie..

I hate to disagree with you again. It’s not personal believe me! But let’s remember. We have the Internet now so bitching is so much larger and faster. I do remember (and I prove how ancient I am) letterzines, club newsletters and con panels and chats and TWOK was a huge firestorm. Personally I loved Meyers previous work so I was kinda thrilled he was brought in but then we started hearing stuff about the uniforms and the military aspect. And then the Spock was going to die sh-tstorm hit. I managed to get a copy of a script at a con held months before the release of the movie. I of course ran up to the room to read it and thought it was amazing on the page. I then came down and attended a panel composed of folks from the movie and the question about Spock’s death came up and I thought the room might riot. They of course lied and said he didn’t die. Don’t blame them although it was tough to hear since I knew it wasn’t true. The nitpicking continued long after the movie too because their are a lot of continuity errors. I did it for fun but some folks were pretty darn serious about it.

110. Closettrekker - August 21, 2008

#109—“As much as I love TOS and the Big 3, I think Paramount is throwing this money solely because of JJ and the writers — their success. I also think you sell TNG short. It’s not my fav either but TNG was huge in the 90s. I have been a con-goer my whole life and I was rather shocked at how it eclipsed TOS and overshadowed all the other Trek incarnations. But as does happen its fanbase grew older and lost interest.”

It’s natural that it would overshadow TOS at the cons, being that it was so much newer. And as you alluded to in reference to TNG, the TOS fans also grew older and their attendance at cons (I have never been to one personally) would naturally start to dwindle.

I don’t sell TNG short, IMO. Its success (or lack thereof)at the box-office says so. In contrast, all but one of the 6 original films actually did well. I think alot of fans (like me) were disinterested in TNG films, and it showed at the box office.

The TNG television series did extremely well (and to this day has a more than respectably large fanbase), but when it came to forking out money for tickets and popcorn….uh…not so much. Some things simply work well on tv, yet do not transition well to the big screen. I’d say that’s just my opinion, but the truth is—it’s more than that. The evidence is there in the numbers.

As for Paramount and JJ, I think you’re at least partially correct. I think he is the major factor in the studio being willing to fork out such an enormous budget, and give up so much creative control as well. However, I think Paramount was also looking to get on the “prequel bus” already, as they were at some point contemplating scripts for at least two other Trek prequel ideas. I think that Paramount recognizes that no Trek movie will sell like one which involves its most iconic characters—JJ Abrams or not.

Furthermore, Abrams wanted to do that story because it involved the origins of the only Trek characters that he (a mild fan at best) ever cared about. His recollection of a Star Trek movie experience is going to see TWOK. Of the 5 members of the STXI “Supreme Court”, he is the one who best represents the audience the movie is looking to court to the franchise. The rest—Orci, Kurtzman, Lindelof, and Burk—are all Star Trek fans (and heavier on TNG), yet I think they too realized that this story was the more marketable one (as opposed to another TNG tale).

If Trek is to return to its glory (and more importantly, add new blood to the fanbase), it should bring its “A Team”. To me, that’s Kirk, Spock, Bones, and Scotty, etc. (not Mr. T and a van).

The starship captain who fistfights and fornicates his way across the galaxy and is just as likely to solve a problem with a phaser as he is to solve one with his mind, or the one who sings, likes to play Shakespeare, and sips Earl Grey tea on the bridge….which one has the more “mainstream” appeal?

:)

111. krikzil - August 21, 2008

Closettrekker — We’ll just have to agree to disagree. I think your dislike of TNG colors your opinions. I didn’t exactly dislike it, it just never did anything for me (kinda vanilla) — except keep cons going which DID make me happy. :) And the actors were all very likeable guests….much more interesting than their characters, at least to me.

As for the dropoff of the movies, again I think it was a reflection of how the younger set of the 90s and on have a shorter attention span. Expectations were also a lot lower for the Classic films. (Sadly, now films have to do insane business week #1 to be a “success”.) And Trek exhaustion had also set in — way too many shows and films coming on top of each other. Way too many much more “cooler” and exciting types of films coming out. Sci Fi has changed and Trek did seem stale to a lot of people I think.

Of course, TOS and Kirk & Spock in particular have the advantage of 40+ years on their side. They’ve entered the collective consciousness of the country and the world. As for con attendance, actually TOS fans have always carried the banner — diehards I guess. We just had the addition of all the younger TNG fans in the 90s and attendance really boomed and cons multiplied like tribbles. But those from the 90s for the most part seem to have disappeared now, not staying interested in the long haul. I’ve gotten to know several dealers over the years, and several remarked on how this most recent con was skewing older and it was bad for business.

Whatever my feelings are about this new film, as with all the other Trek endeavors over the years, I truly hope it’s successful, just to keep Trek alive. It’s always going to be Shatner & Nimoy’s Trek that I love, but there’s always room for more Trek in my world .

112. Closettrekker - August 21, 2008

#111—I don’t think there is all that much “disagreement” actually.

I watched TNG. The characters just did not capture my imagination the way the wonderfully rich and “fascinating” TOS-era heroes did. I certainly don’t begrudge anyone who prefers TNG-era stuff.

Where there might be disagreement is in my opinion that the lack of quality in the characters (which actually seems to be a source of agreement) played a large role in the lack of success of the TNG characters’ transition to the big screen. And, IMO, whereas Star Trek was always a cult phenomenon first and foremost, I knew plenty of “mild fans” who payed to see those films in the ’80’s. I don’t know many “mild” TNG fans. It seems to be much more of a “geeks only”, somewhat exclusive club. An additional part of the problem was (again, IMO) that the interest of those “mild fans” didn’t carry over to the TNG movies (Generations being an exception—but that required an albeit gimmicky appearance of Shatner as JTK). I considered myself to be much more than a “mild fan”, and I didn’t carry over either.

113. Holger - August 22, 2008

#106: I see your point now. I guess the 24th century isn’t hip anymore because there was so much of it in the 90’s, with two shows running parallel and all that. Obviously, fan excitement as well as writer’s originality were bound to reach a point of saturation at some time, followed by inevitable decline. All good things must come to an end, isn’t it?
But I don’t think the problem is that Trek has become somewhat outdated, the problem is just that it hasn’t been around for a while. So young people got themselves other entertainments, and much more shallow ones, if you ask me. How should they become interested in Trek if nothing’s on offer?
It’s wise to go back in time, as was already done in Enterprise. We know ‘everything’ about the 24th century, writer’s don’t seem able to come up with anything original about that time anymore. I also believe that the advanced technology in that time has become too much. How would you tell an exciting story, when basically every problem can be solved by superior technology? So the best thing to do is to return to simpler times. OK, my point is simply that I don’t agree with you that the TOS era is just more exciting or more mainstream in itself. I think there’s much more to be said about the move back to TOS.
It remains to be seen whether the new movie can bring people back into the boat. I hope that a lot of young people will sense the difference between entertainment with some depth and a positive stance on the one hand, and pointless displays of violence and egoism on the other hand.
I don’t have children, as you do, but when students in my classes at the university bring up the Matrix as an example of exciting and highly original SF concepts and deep thought, I always tell them to watch The Cage from 1964! I’m gratified that at least they know what Star Trek is and that it’s a big question whether Data is alive. Maybe in a year or so, Mr. Spock will be mentioned in class. I certainly hope so!

114. Dr. Soran - August 22, 2008

- C’mon…ENT remains a strange show… maybe because it wasn’t a remake.. and because half of characters are just dummies …like that translator chick..and that ugly doctor..and that guy who looks like LaForge…T’pol is just a bad copy of Seven of Nine. …BTW i saw a ENT episode with a strange race called themselves romulans…ha-ha…what an ugly race …The only good looking romulan i ever saw was that blonde copy of Tasha from TNG…

The new romulan is looking like a bold klingon augment from ENT..but personally , i really like this.. new look.
Anyway , in my country the only mainstream shows were TNG and DS-9….

115. Closettrekker - August 22, 2008

#114—“The new romulan is looking like a bold klingon augment from ENT..but personally , i really like this.. new look.”

The “new Romulan” you speak of may only be representative of a small group of them. I don’t think it is Abrams’ intention to make them all look that way—just the small group that is travelling back in time to disrupt the past.

“Anyway , in my country the only mainstream shows were TNG and DS-9….”

Maybe, but the World is a much bigger place. In the U.S., it seems that not enough people cared to go see the TNG movies to justify another one. On the other hand, all but one of the 6 original movies did well at the box office.

116. Shatner_Fan_2000 - August 22, 2008

“On the other hand, all but one of the 6 original movies did well at the box office.”

C’mon, Closet! The Voyage Home performed just fine!

;-)

117. Dr. Soran - August 22, 2008

- CLOSETTEKKER i think that in Europe..(not in my country )the best show was DS-9..because was close related to TNG..but in the same time ready to drop old stereotypes , like the look of Starfleet ships…so for me , that thing with “let’s go back to the roots” is not really such a great thought…

118. Holger - August 22, 2008

#114: I couldn’t disagree more, Dr. Soran. I admit I had more than a few reservations against ENT in the beginning, but the more I watch the show, the more it grows on me. Well, except for that stupid Xindi arc, maybe. To me, Enterprise is as great as TOS and TNG. Nothing tops a Starship Enterprise exploring the galaxy!

119. Closettrekker - August 22, 2008

#116—I know you “need your pain”! lol.

120. Closettrekker - August 22, 2008

#117—“for me , that thing with “let’s go back to the roots” is not really such a great thought…”

“Going back to the roots” with STXI has little to do with asthetics. It is about revisiting the most iconic characters Star Trek has ever produced and witnessing their beginnings for the first time. By all accounts, this film will be vastly different (asthetically) from any Star Trek you or I have ever seen before.

#118—“Nothing tops a Starship Enterprise exploring the galaxy!”

You’ve got that right, especially one which really captures that “final frontier” feeling of truly being on your own out there without the aid of technology which had gone too far. Kirk and Archer embodied the more romantic starship captain—one who had to rely far less upon tacion (sp?)beams, and more upon good old fashion brains and brawn from week to week.

technobabble=crap.

121. ByGeorge - August 22, 2008

#113

Getting teenagers to see this may not be that tough. One simple thing would be to give them some good-looking babes and dudes – not putty heads.

Another thing is to go back to the more episodic format. When I saw Nemesis, I knew there was no way my kids would like it because of all the history and background story needed to appreciate it. Try explaining Nemesis to someone who knows nothing about Trek. When you do you will sound like a loon living in a fantasy world. TOS episodes did not need historical explanation to be enjoyed or understood. Each week they saved the galaxy, which just might be source of why our generation was inspired by them. TNG era had already achieved utopia, so the main characters became diplomats and beaurocrats drinking tea, not galactic heroes drinking scotch saving the galaxy. Teens go for action, message, babes, drama and adventure.

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