TrekMovie Goes Inside The Star Trek Trailer – Shot By Shot [UPDATE: Abrams Gives His Analysis] | TrekMovie.com
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TrekMovie Goes Inside The Star Trek Trailer – Shot By Shot [UPDATE: Abrams Gives His Analysis] November 19, 2008

by TrekMovie.com Staff , Filed under: Spoilers,Star Trek (2009 film) , trackback

The arrival of the theatrical trailer has answered quite a few questions about the new Star Trek movie, and it has also created a number of new mysteries, especially with all those images going by so fast. No worries as TrekMovie goes shot by shot and explains, based on our research, what is going on in each shot. [SPOILERS]. 

 

Get to know the Star Trek trailer
Below are all the shots from the new trailer. They are presented in the same order as the trailer (which is not the same order as they are in the film).  The following scene description captions are based on an in-depth analysis from members of the TrekMovie staff based on previous TrekMovie reports, including the recent reports from JJ Abrams Europe Tour as well as other published reports and sources. However it should be noted that not everything below has been confirmed by Abrams and/or Paramount and so some is based on the best information available to the TrekMovie team at this time. Areas where things are least sure are noted accordingly.

Nitpicker’s guide
Trekkies are detail oriented. So we also have provided some DETAIL, NOTES and FACT CHECKS for interesting items, as well as some ‘CANON ALERTS’ for some things which (could) seem to violate canon, although they may also be explained.

…and here we go

Click images to enlarge


Kid Kirk in his Uncle’s Corvette


Cop in pursuit through Iowa farmland
(NOTE: Top is now down)


(DETAIL: Iowa license plate number 12213; other numbers on the plate include "1253" and "3753")


(CANON ALERT: Kirk can drive a stick, unlike in "Piece of the Action")


(FACT CHECK: Apparently there are quarries in Iowa)


Jimmy Bennett as young James Tiberius Kirk


Cop and his hoverbike (undetermined if robot or just guy with mask)


(DETAIL: Cop’s # is 924)


Young adult Kirk riding motorcycle in Iowa
(VOICE OVER: Bruce Greenwood as Pike addressing Kirk)


Kirk sees USS Enterprise NCC – 1701 being built (in Iowa)
(DETAIL: Federation flag on building in distance)
(CANON ALERT: Not being build in "San Francisco, CALIF.")


City on Planet Vulcan
(VOICE OVER: Ben Cross as Sarek addressing Spock)


Jacob Kogan as young Spock


Spock’s Parents: Amanda Grayson (Winona Ryder) and Sarek (Ben Cross), holding baby Spock
(NOTE: Vasquez rocks location shoot, same as "Arena")


Young adult Spock (Zachary Quinto) on Vulcan before he leaves for Starfleet
(NOTE: Sarek is on the dais)


Spock returning to Vulcan to save his parents during Nero attack
(NOTE: New transporter effect)


Starfleet Academy hanger as cadets get assigned to ships
(DETAIL: Shuttle on left from USS Enterprise with registry number on it)
(CAMEO SPOTTING: Stargate’s Paul McGillion appears to be the actor holding the clipboard)


Spock and Kirk on bridge of USS Enterprise
(NOTE: Kirk in black, because he is still technically a cadet)


USS Enterprise leaving Earth orbit


Enterprise with new ‘at warp’ effect


Shuttles leave USS Kelvin (George Kirk’s ship), during attack from Nero’s Romulan ship


Chekov (Anton Yelchin) and (probably) Crewman Jessica on right (Sufe Bradshaw)


USS Kelvin faces down Nero’s ship


Spock rescues his parents and other Vulcans during Nero’s attack on Vulcan
(DETAIL: Spock holding communicator, wearing belt with phaser and tricorder)


Kirk tries to piss off Spock


Nero on the bridge of his ship


Explosion (possibly USS Enterprise sickbay where chief medical officer is killed)


Kirk, Sulu and Chief Engineer Olsen ‘orbital sky dive’ to Romulan drilling rig/weapon which descends from Romulan ship trying to destroy Vulcan
(NOTE:  Olsen is wearing red)


USS Enterprise Viewscreen w/ new ‘at warp’ effect


USS Enterprise arrives at Vulcan  into debris of Starfleet ships during Nero attack


Kirk, McCoy and Uhura rush to bridge to warn Captain Pike that there are Romulans at Vulcan
(CANON ALERT: Encountering Romulans before "Balance of Terror")


Capt. Pike (Bruce Greenwood) orders weapons to fire on Romulan ship
(CANON ALERT: Kirk and Pike meeting well before Pike’s promotion)


Elder Spock (Nimoy)’s Time Ship


Kirk fights Romulan on drilling rig


Kirk hides under Uhura’s bed


Uhura (Zoe Saldana) gets undressed


Scotty (Simon Pegg) shortly after arriving on the Enterprise from exile on the ‘frozen planet’


Sulu (w/ ‘folding’ katana sword) fights Romulan on drilling rig


USS Enterprise again


Kirk facing Nero henchman while hanging from drilling rig as it fires onto Vulcan below


Sulu looks concerned


Nero fights off Klingon guards at Rura Penthe prison
(NOTE: Not the same ‘frozen planet’ that Scotty is found on)


Unclear, possibly view of Nero’s ship from the bridge of the USS Kelvin


Dr. McCoy talks to Kirk on way up to Enterprise for the first time


Kirk faces monster on ‘frozen planet’ (where he later meets Scotty)


Kirk wearing gold uniform and captain’s stripes tells McCoy to "buckle up"
(DETAIL: Uhura in background at Comm station)


USS Kelvin rams Nero’s ship


Kirk effectively gets Spock to lose his cool (at the suggestion of elder Spock in order for Kirk to relieve him of command)
(NOTE: Image is reversed – see Spock’s badge)


Uhura looks concerned
(DETAIL: Uhura wearing earpiece + labels read "Engineering 01" and "Defense Shield")


Romulan ship travels through time


Kirk and Orion Cadet (Rachel Nichols)


Statue collapses on Vulcan during attack


Spock’s time ship again (possibly Spock in window)


Winona Kirk (Jennifer Morrison) giving birth to James T. Kirk, with Starfleet Med tech in background (Kelvin Yu)


Kirk on board Romulan bridge
(DETAIL: Not holding Federation Phaser, could be Romulan or Klingon)


Another shot of Nero’s Romulan ship firing missiles


USS Kelvin during attack from Romulan ship (missile headed for saucer)


 Nero (Eric Bana) says "the wait is over"

…and indeed it is

 

UPDATE: JJ Abrams gives his analysis
Star Trek director JJ Abrams gave his own personal version of a shot by shot analysis to Empire magazine. Nothing above was contradicted and he also confirms much of what is above and also add some interesting details (such as who the designer is of the monster). Go to Empire to check it out. Here are a couple of interesting quotes.

Abrams on locations

There are a couple of sequences that take place in Iowa and some in San Francisco and it was just important that the movie feel connected to familiar terrain before it became about things that you more might expect.

Abrams on Kirk and Spock:

I think you are Kirk in the movie. Spock is massively important in but in this film the audience is Kirk

The TV series always presumed this friendship between Kirk and Spock. What I love about what this movie does is that it shows they didn’t start out fast friends; they actually had a very rocky beginning and a lot of conflict. How they come to be the Kirk and Spock that we know is very dramatic and rife with tension.

 

Watch it again:
Now that you have a better idea of what is going on, watch it again.


CLICK TO SEE AT APPLE.COM (various resolutions, including HD)

And is now on YouTube at 480p

 

 

 

 

Special thanks to Joshua for the screencapping

 

Comments

1. Flake - November 19, 2008

Interesting

2. commander K, USS Sovereign - November 19, 2008

Fabuloso thanks!

3. Wrath - November 19, 2008

Oh it’s exciting. Getting hard to avoid spoilers now.

4. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - November 19, 2008

Nice, I’d like to say that is probably the best prepared article I’ve ever read on TrekMovie. I am pleased I was right that Spock’s attack on Kirk is intentional, at the behest of older Spock.

5. SteveinSF - November 19, 2008

Thanks for the break down!

6. StarTrekXIpage - November 19, 2008

Excelent imagens. The Enteprise is built in San Francisco not in Iowa

7. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - November 19, 2008

But the Enterprise built in Iowa? Meh, I have always liked in being built in San Francisco, practically in my backyard. (I know there’s the whole question of whether the San Francisco Shipyards are on Earth or in orbit; I’m leaving that alone for now, and in any case in *this* movie, the ship is built on Earth, so the orbital issue is moot).

8. Adam E - November 19, 2008

Thanks guys. And good job.
Do you expect to get a confirmation on these details?

9. Sailor83 - November 19, 2008

Kirk has a nice ass

10. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - November 19, 2008

^ “it” not “in”

11. Darryl - November 19, 2008

Is it May yet?

12. Admiral_Bumblebee - November 19, 2008

maybe Mr. orci could address those “canon alerts” or maybe he could answer this question:
I am right in the assumption that this movie starts out in the original timeline but ends in an alternate timeline, erasing the old one?

Maybe Spock isn’t from the a time after Nemesis, but indeed from a time after Star Trek 6. So just the TOS timeline is erased and TNG and everything thereafter stays intact…

13. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - November 19, 2008

So, it’s confirmed the beaming effect is more “swirly”. Hmm, I’d like to see more of that. I think I prefer it straight down, like the “shower” effect of TOS, or the “outside-in” effect of ENT, but I can live with the “swirly” if it’s convincing.

14. Neil - November 19, 2008

Dumb question – how do we know that’s Iowa, where the ship is being built?

15. Julio - November 19, 2008

A few of my buddies and I did a podcast the other night talking about Star Trek (and actually doing a Star Trek gameshow!), and most of the folks were pretty darn stoked after seeing this trailer… and they weren’t all Trekkies. So I think this film is going to draw a much larger audience, and hopefully the uber-Trekkies who like to complain about every little thing won’t ruin it for the new fans.

Podcast is at http://www.blogtalkradio.com/potcast by the way… the Star Trek game show starts about an hour into the show… just skip to that part if you’d like to check it out.

16. Tony Pieta - November 19, 2008

re:4. 4 8 15 16 23 42

“All right you mutinous, disloyal, computerized half-breed, we’ll see about you deserting my ship.”

“The term ‘half-breed’ is somewhat applicable, but ‘computerized’ is inaccurate. A machine can be computerized, not a man.”

“What makes you think you’re a man? You’re an overgrown jack rabbit, an elf with a hyperactive thyroid.”

“Jim, I don’t understand.”

“Of course you don’t understand. You don’t have the brains to understand. All you have are printed circuits.”

“Captain, if you’ll excuse me.”

“What can you expect from a simpering, devil-eared freak, whose father was a computer and whose mother was an encyclopedia?”

“My mother was a teacher, my father an ambassador.”

“Your father was a computer, like his son. An ambassador from a planet of traitors. The Vulcan never lived who had an ounce of integrity.”

“Captain, please don’t.”

“You’re a traitor from a race of traitors, disloyal to the core, rotten like the rest of your sub-human race – and you’ve got the gall to make love to that girl.”

“That’s enough.”

“Does she know what she’s getting, Spock? A carcass full of memory banks who should be squatting on a mushroom instead of passing himself off as a man. You belong in a circus, Spock, not a starship – right next to the dog-faced boy.”

Kirk: this side of paradise

17. scifib5st - November 19, 2008

What a great break down!!! Shot by Shot!! Your crew is the best. We the readers can not wait for you do to the same thing with JJ’s press tour videos. I’ll bet you guys have peaked at the notes for the second movie already!! You dogs.

18. Corn - November 19, 2008

… but nothing more

19. Tony Pieta - November 19, 2008

re: 14. Neil

” Dumb question – how do we know that’s Iowa, where the ship is being built?”

That’s what I was thinking. I’ve know a lot of people in my day who go on some pretty extensive bike rides.

20. uus jon - November 19, 2008

Could Pike get Promoted BECAUSE of his work in the battle. therefore kirk did meet him when he was promoted?

im not completely sure of kirks exact line about Cap. Pike.

anyone?

21. Zorty - November 19, 2008

If I may be so bold.. This is Star Trek, the way I always wanted it to be. It’s just amazing. Great job!!

22. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - November 19, 2008

16 Tony Pieta — nice quote, though I’m not sure I understand what it has to do with my comment @ #4….

23. Neil - November 19, 2008

#19
I’m not even saying Kirk rode the bike all the way from Iowa to San Francisco; he could just as easily have borrowed (or even stolen) the bike from somebody local. Mind you, if somebody decides to change their life, you’re right – a motorcycle ride across the country isn’t unheard of.

Is there anything in the shot that I’m missing, clearly saying “Iowa”?

24. Q Macedonia - November 19, 2008

The canon violations are not that big, i can live with’ em. But remains to be seen how big are they going to be in the movie. We’ve seen just 2 minutes here. We’ve got another 118 to go.
And Nero is wrong. The wait has just started. :) Buckle up guys. We are in one hell of a ride.

25. CJS - November 19, 2008

They’ve blown up the canon, but who cares? Just assume the whole story is a couple of alternate universes off TOS and enjoy it for what it is.

26. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - November 19, 2008

If that’s not a robot cop, then why would there be a visor over the eye-slit, which clearly would provide sufficient protection from dust. I assert it’s definitely a robot, which is equipped with an optical viewslit, that in turn needs to be protected from dust with the visor.

27. TJ - November 19, 2008

In regards to Canon, I think Neros Trip to the past alters the time line pushing up the Federations first contact with the Romulans. That is the beautiful thing about time travel. I think he is attempting to wipe out the Kirk family. Some obvious vendetta. I think that Neros time incursion creates a ‘new’ continuity for the original series with minimal damge to the TNG era. It’s a comic book device that works quite well when it’s done the right way. This is all my theory. I was always an advocate for brining these characters back with younger actors. There are plenty of things you can play around with in the original series continuity. I like the new direction. I think it’s pretty cool. I wish TNG would have gone out on a better note.

28. PR. - November 19, 2008

Thanks for that, I’d missed some details, most notably – not realising that was McCoy in the shuttle warning about the dangers of space! doh

29. Neil - November 19, 2008

#26
There’s no exposed skin anywhere on the cop.
Could it be some kind of body armor?

I’ve often wondered why the bad guys in today’s crime dramas don’t just try to shoot the cop in the head or neck, where they have no protection.

30. obamite - November 19, 2008

Re: 14, 19

How do we even know that that’s the Enterprise in that shot? I don’t see a registry number on it anywhere. According to Memory Alpha, the NCC 1701 was commissioned in 2245, which would make Kirk 12 years old at the time. He certainly doesn’t look 12 on that bike. Anthony, can you confirm or refute that this is a different Constitution-class ship?

31. Sonia from Grenoble - November 19, 2008

Very interesting, thanks!

On picture “Kirk tries to piss off Spock”: it looks like Chris Pine wears contact lenses. I recognize the pale blue circle around the iris…

32. Captain Sisko - November 19, 2008

I think the TNG Canon stays in tact. It is hard to erase 40 years of continuity in a tv series as opposed to a comic book. Paramount would piss off a lot of TNG fans if that continuity was wiped away. Oric and Kurtzman have stated that Spock returns from a post Nemisis Continuity and they said that having Nimoy as Spock gives the film continuity which goes back to my original theory that Nero disrupts the timeline when he goes into the past. Given the way Kirk died in Star Trek Generations, I am all for a new interpretation of the character. Remember Orci and Kurtzman acknowledged that Kirk was dead in the future. It’s obvious they are aware of the mindfield they walk in when it comes to continuity. This is not like Battlestar Galactica which wasn’t that long and had plenty of misses the first time out. Trek had a lot of homeruns and its share of strike outs. I appreciate this new approach. I think it will work and it’s long overdue. That is why I loved Deep Space Nine. They took risks and turned Trek on it’s ear. It needs a shakeup.

33. Craig - November 19, 2008

I personally love the transporter effect. To me if I really think about how I could imagine my molecules breaking apart and being reassembled it is swirl like… falling down like rain or snow.. not so much…

34. karanadon - November 19, 2008

In the sixteenth pic with the shuttles…is that Paul McGillion speaking to the crowd?! =D

35. Anthony Pascale - November 19, 2008

The questions people are asking are answered in the first two paragraphs of this article. This analysis is not based on guesswork. Senator Vreenak was very hands on for this article.

36. CmdrR - November 19, 2008

THANK YOU.
And my computer’s bulging wallpaper file thanks you.

37. the_law - November 19, 2008

it could be body armor on the cop, or protection since he’s in an open air vehicle. The mask could be equipped with a scanning device to check for weapons, internal screen much like the MDTs cops have today in their cars.

I don’t think (could be wrong) that they would insinuate that artificial life forms are present on Earth when they make such a big deal about Data being an artificial life form in TNG. Perhaps though it’s an acknowledgment that in reality we could be advancing faster than our Trek creators predicted years ago and it’s just an update to reflect the times.

38. Neal - November 19, 2008

This was great, a nice service. Great info.

Has anyone else gone frame by frame of the E at warp? Nice lines, a very flattering view. Especially impressive are the engines, much bigger and more powerful looking.

39. Sheryl - November 19, 2008

14. For that matter, how do we know it’s Iowa where we see the car chase? He could have been on a road trip, for all we know.

40. Jay El Jay - November 19, 2008

I think its on EW that JJ explains the trailer scene by scene, he left out some details that you guys put in, but also told us some interesting details for e.g. The Klingons are from the future where Nero is breaking out of prison.

2) In the scene with Kirk under Uhuras bed, Kirk is actually trying to sneak a peak, which results in an “hilarious” scene.

3) The drill is drilling into Vulcan to attempt to create a black hole.

4) All canon changes are explained.

5) There was an interesting Klingon subplot which may appear on the DVD version.

6) Just a suggestion by me: Who says that the Enterprise is being built in Iowa?? – Kirk is seen on his bike travelling, and we know that he meets cadet Uhura and co in a bar, surely that would be in SF, he might pop over to see the Ent whilst he’s there??

41. zandor - November 19, 2008

The Boy Kirk pod race,er, Corvette ride, fills me with horror.
“What’s your name, boy?”
“I’m Anakin T. Skywalker!”

I really hope that in the context of the film that it works and does not take up too much screen time. Now, the rest of the trailer works for me. But the opening sequence freaks me out a little.

42. Neil - November 19, 2008

#35 & #40

What might be helpful on the “ship being built in Iowa” question is if somebody could post a link to wherever the slam-dunk confirmation is that the scene does, in fact, take place in Iowa.

43. Anthony Pascale - November 19, 2008

42…did you read the article?

44. Jay El Jay - November 19, 2008

41) Agreed, thats the only part of the trailer that really bugs me, the Robocop is lame, Kirk driving a car is just… grrr and the little kid is bloody annoying.

45. What is it with you? - November 19, 2008

-Anthony

How do you know Krik’is hiding under UHURA’S bed?

Looks morel ike the Orian cadet’s bunk to me.

An Enterprise bed made out of wood? No way.

46. jw wright - November 19, 2008

the good:

the cast looks great

plenty of action

the space station looks very franz joseph

transporter effect is very cool

the iffy:

their voices caught me off guard, for some reason i expected their voices to be the same as the tos cast… irrational i know

that wishbone configuration of the nacelle struts is odd

is nero flying around in v’ger? his ship seems to be ridiculously big… is it populated with administrators and accountants?

the bad:

kirk did not know how to handle a standard shift internal combustion vehicle.

the enterprise was built in san francisco

what about kirk’s service as lt. cmdr on the farragut?

the rocket exhaust glow from the warp nacelles is ridiculous…

the cliche’d printed circuits on clear acrylic on the bridge is another old sci-fi saw that went out of fashion 30 years ago for cheap b-movies.

anyway, i still cant wait to see the picture in theatre.

its cool how that hangar looks like the airdock here in akron:

http://media.ohio.com/images/airdock+01.jpg

i always imagine it is the engineering hull of the 1701 every time i drive past it:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3100/2393264163_f5e64a5b38.jpg?v=0

it looks and operates so much like the old 1701 shuttlebay, i have to wonder if jefferies designed that feature after it, he was an aviation buff after all.

47. Q Macedonia - November 19, 2008

We are about to see if the writers (bob & alex) can do magic.

We clearly see violations of the canon. For example, like the one meeting Romulans before Balance Of Terror.

Now there can be few explanations.

1. Nero goes back in time and changes the Humans meet Romulans part of history, forever. In which you can now ditch the Balance of Terror episode because it never happened.

2. At the end of the movie, something happens and all of the timeline is restored in which Balance of Terror will happen again, but then again this movie never happened. So we will see a movie that when it finishes will be removed from the memory of everyone that participated in this incident with Nero. Which is going to be all of Vulcan, all of Earth, and propably all of the Federation. That move will be stupid. Making a movie that at in the end it never happened and everyone returns normally where they should be is the most cheap storytelling ever.

3. This will be the most dificult task to grasp. Making this movie part of canon or part of the real timeline and still possible to Balance of Terror to happen.

If the writers pulled No.3 than they’ve done a miracle and could hope for the best Star Trek movie. Everything besides that will be a sword with two ends. I have faith in Bob’s and Alex’s story writing so I think that they pulled it of. At least I hope so.

48. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - November 19, 2008

In post #4 I gloat about having been right with respect to Spock’s attack on Kirk as an intentional suggestion by older Spock.

In this post, I eat humble pie about the Kirk / Uhura antics. I had previously contended that, trailers being what they are, the Kirk-under-the-bed shot and the Uhura-taking-her-top-off shot could be from different scenes. Unfortunately, I was wrong about that. I’m not keen on Kirk spying on Uhura, but I won’t get all outraged about it unless, in the movie, there are some objectionable shenanigans in this regard. (Ultimately I won’t care much even then, but it would be kind of cheap if Kirk crosses the line with Uhura.)

49. Neil - November 19, 2008

#43
Yes, Anthony, I did. I saw a JJ reference saying that some scenes are shot in SF, some are in Iowa. Didn’t see a specific reference to the scene where Kirk pulls up to a ship being built in Iowa.

And also saw this:

“not everything below has been confirmed by Abrams and/or Paramount”

50. Scott S. - November 19, 2008

Great write up on the trailer. Thanks!! Right now I don’t want a lot of explainations on canon in regards to the movie. I’ve read one too many spoilers already. The trailer does it’s job. May’s a big month for us here. Two graduations, wedding anniversary and Trek. I need to get the priorities straight.

51. Chris M - November 19, 2008

Awesome! Missed some of those shots when watching the Trailer.

52. Aaron - November 19, 2008

I’m guessing that the cop is a person. If humans did make use of humanoid robots why limit them to traffic control in Iowa and not use them on Starships? How many red shirts could have been spared? Also, I love the mega-buildings (archologies?) in the back ground of the Iowa scenes. We never get too see enough of future Earth.

p.s. Are we sure it’s the Enterprise being built in Iowa? It’s a stretch, but it could be another Constitution class. That would get around the whole ‘Enterprise was built when Kirk was 12 thing.’

53. badboy1230 - November 19, 2008

Anti-nit for the Kirk being able to drive a stick shift in this movie and having trouble in “A Piece of the Action:”

I know how to drive a stick shift, but I’m not sure I could drive a Model T. A Corvette probably handles much differently. Plus the car in the TV episode was constucted on another planet. Who knows what kind of difference that would make. And at least Kirk knew what gears were. Spock just had to remind him about the clutch.

54. Jason - November 19, 2008

#34

I noticed that the other day too, definitely looks like Paul.

55. jw wright - November 19, 2008

Kirk sees USS Enterprise NCC – 1701 being built (in Iowa)
(DETAIL: Starfleet flag on building in distance)
(CANON ALERT: Not being build in “San Francisco, CALIF.”)

that the UFP flag, not starfleet.

at least they kept that consistent…

56. jw wright - November 19, 2008

#47

its a stretch, but maybe they arent aware that nero is a romulan?

there were romulan / starfleet skirmishes before b.o.t

the vulcans and rom’s have a loooong history…

maybe it could be cleared up this way, somehow?

anyway, the real kicker would be for the movie to end with bill shatner as kirk, waking up from a dream, the night before he makes his news media appearance on the 1701-B’s maiden voyage….

57. LordCheeseCakeBreath - November 19, 2008

Great work guys!

I wonder if the construction of the Enterprise was delayed? That’s why Kirk is 20 something instead of 12. Where is Captain April? I guess that’s non canon.

58. Driver - November 19, 2008

If the cop is a man, why is there no place for a nose? It’s a robot. The transporter effect could be from technology other than Starfleet. I hope they fix the reverse image of Spock grabbing Kirk’s throat. Just because young Kirk can drive a Corvette stick shift doesn’t automatically make him qualified to operate any stick shift auto plus that auto from “A Piece of the Action” was not built on Earth by Americans.

59. Harry Seldom - November 19, 2008

My interpretation of the car chase: Evil Uncle has pissed off Jimmy. Jimmy has stolen Unc’s prize posession (a 200-year-old working sports car!) and deliberately driven it off the cliff. And he wants Unc to KNOW he did it, making the way he clearly enunciates his name a little less lame.

60. jw wright - November 19, 2008

#52

androids of the era could easily serve in capacities like traffic policing, public safety, etc…

to be a fleet officer… like anything, takes real sentience and vitally, imagination.

something not acheived until soong’s positronic brain was invented.

61. S. John Ross - November 19, 2008

I’ve prepared a list of things that _don’t_ bother me:

1) Canon. Just couldn’t care less, really. Buh-bye, canon. Won’t miss ya.
2) Recasting. I’m cool with recasting. It’s probably overdue.
3) Abrams & writing team. They’ve done nothing I’ve liked yet, but benefit of the doubt.
4) Action! Hell yes. More, please.
5) Sex! Hell hell HELL yes. Star Trek that isn’t sexy, isn’t Star Trek at all.
6) Reboot. I wish they’d stop saying it isn’t one. If it were, the canonistas could relax.
7) Marketing for everyone. Star Trek should always be for everyone.
8) Tasmanian Devil transporter effect. Sure, fine.
9) Star Warsification. As long as it’s more Empire Strikes Back and not all prequelly, fine.

… and things that do:

1) Voice-overs include some very trite, cliched, painful crap. Cheesy.
2) Time travel plot. Cheesy.
3) Bald Romulan villain named Nero. Cheesy.
3a) Story has a villain to begin with. Yawn.
4) Awful cartoony “future fashions.” Cheesy.
5) I really think Kirk should be played by a dude. Someone with some manly presence.
6) Uncomfortable with the notion that Kirk & Spock ever looked like Space Yuppies. We already had Space Hippies and those were cringeworthy enough.
7) I really wish Quinto could slip a little bit more gravity into his voice. Even at his youngest, Nimoy had vocal depth and I think any recasting should include that.

… and things I actually like/feel encouraged by:

1) Karl Urban
2) Simon Pegg
3) Saldana, Yelchin, Cho.
5) The shots of Vulcan are cool. And hey, Sarek.

Hmmm. Hmmm. For me, it all boils down to being really worried about the cheese factor, and desperately hoping that the voiceover stuff isn’t indicative of the actual movie dialogue.

62. Capt Mike from the Terran Empire - November 19, 2008

well. It all looks great and i for one can’t Wait. As for the Cannon Well Lets see the Movie as i bet theres some great explanations on why theres differences. Remember Time travel always gives us headaches.

63. Q Macedonia - November 19, 2008

#56

That would be good. not knowing that Nero is a Romulan. But we’ve got Kirk shouting all over the Enterprise, Romulans are attacking Vulcan, so nope, that is not a possibility. :)

64. Pete - November 19, 2008

Regarding that quarry in Iowa…Assuming the Enterprise is built in Iowa then perhaps the quarry is the excavation that is required for the shipyard to be installed. In other words, Kirk looses the Corvette at the very location where the Enterprise will be built. There’s a nice symmetry to that!

65. doubleofive - November 19, 2008

Darn stupid me and stupid spoliers. So Nero DOES attack Vulcan. Did Nero really travel back in time to destroy Kirk which needs a huge motive from some guy we never heard of, or is he trying to wipe out the cousin-Vulcan race which makes so much more sense and the Kirks just get in the way?

I knew I shouldn’t have read this article…

66. jw wright - November 19, 2008

i think i’m satisfied with the canon-esque explanations of kirks ability to operate an old corvette and the very difficult to operate ’31 cadillac, built on another planet, by people who did not possess the original manufacturing blueprints of the original car.

now, lets hope that the 1701 is actually built in san fran, i dont recall iowa having a rich history of shipbuilding…

not being near an ocean might have contributed to this.

67. afterace - November 19, 2008

here is how i see the plot:
-nero goes back in time from late 24th/early 25th century back into early 23th to destroy Spock. Spock is going after him.
-nero attemts to kill kirk’s parents aboard the Kelvin so he cannot be born
-Kirk’s dad rescues all the people on Kelvin including Kirk’s mom by putting them on the shuttles and alone rams the Kelvin into the Nero’s ship sacrificing himself
-The unseen romulan weapon from the future inspires the UFP to build more battle-oriented ships, thus the different Enterprise looks.
-Nero after failed attempt to kill Kirk builds a drilling weapon to destroy Vulcan
-Young Spock instructed by the Spock prime tries to prevent this.
-Young Kirk after hearing stories about the mysterios ship who killed his father wants to get aboard the Enterprise sooner than he should, se can face Nero and make a revenge.
Seems kinda logical, I think every piece of the canon violation will have a good explaination.
I really can’t wait to se this!

68. harris250 - November 19, 2008

#23

Ok folks…lets get over the Iowa, San Fran thing….I know I’m in Iowa because of the corn fields…they grow corn in Iowa…hello…

69. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - November 19, 2008

46 jw wright — “is nero flying around in v’ger? his ship seems to be ridiculously big”

I was wondering about this too, but looking at the drill scenes, it occurs to me that Nero’s ship has to be huge because it is a “planet killer” — large enough to take on a whole planetary body (though of course not actually planet sized). That also means that it may be vulnerable, since its purpose is not to actually engage starships.

40 Jay El Jay — “The drill is drilling into Vulcan to attempt to create a black hole.” Is that confirmed? That makes no sense to me. If they want to create a black hole, they’d be far better off attacking Vulcan’s sun….

70. S. John Ross - November 19, 2008

One minor point of Star Warsification that _might_ bother me if some of these plot predictions come true: It’s ridiculous how, in Star Wars, everyone ends up more related than they seem at first (the retro-family-fitting that went on even in the original trilogy, and was exacerbated by more of the same in the prequels, where it turns out Anakin built Threepio and whatnot). If there turn out to be “secret” ties between Kirk’s family, the villain, Spocks family, Vulcan, etc. it will tickle the funnybone in a way that the funnybone does not wish to be tickled.

71. Neil - November 19, 2008

Okay, seriously. I don’t mean to harp on this, but it’s one of the pieces of canon that the worry-warts are freaking out about, so I’d love to be able to move it to the “we know for sure” or “we don’t know for sure” column.

Somebody…anybody…tell me how we know the scene where Kirk rides up to the ship being built is in Iowa, other than from the caption on this page.

I’ve seen an article that includes a comment from JJ about shots involving San Francisco, and Iowa. I haven’t seen anything from anyone that conclusively says the shipbuilding scene is set in Iowa.

Really…I promise I’ll shut up about this as soon as somebody points it out to me so that it’s either definite, or in a gray area.

72. Chris Pike - November 19, 2008

66

“now, lets hope that the 1701 is actually built in san fran, i dont recall iowa having a rich history of shipbuilding…

not being near an ocean might have contributed to this.”

Logic indeed at its most profound…

73. Hat Rick - November 19, 2008

Looks to be an action-packed movie, and when it comes to that, it seems that most people will want A Piece of the Action!

As fans of Trek, we may avoid A Private Little War amongst ourselves, lest we taint the possibilities for a Return to Tomorrow. For all this talk of canonicity, canon is essentially a Pattern of Forced rationalizations; we can do no less than that here. By Any Other Name, this would still be Star Trek. From the beginning to end, from alpha to Omega Glory, this new Trek is the Ultimate Computer graphic-ehanced adventure: One with heart and soul — not the Bread and Circuses of certain other franchises we could name.

As fans, we take with some seriously this entertainment/pop phenom, and Our Assignment: Earth’s best SF franchise is a duty we gladly undertake. We need not have Spock’s Brain to realize the potential which we now behold: A new Enterprise — Incidentally not the first — leading us to our own little Paradise Syndrome.

And, perhaps, The Children Shall Lead.

74. jw wright - November 19, 2008

#69

i hope his ship’s exhaust ports are shielded… maybe nero’s ship is taken out by a single proton torpedo?

ha ha!

its like bulls-eyeing klingon targ’s, in my t-16, pice o’ cake!

75. Yellow Brick Toad - November 19, 2008

Enterprise is likely being constructed here.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monument_Valley

76. Jean - November 19, 2008

Great article, thanks.

That’s a lot of “canon alerts” in only two minutes. But whatever i don’t care at all, as long as the characters are right.

Kirk driving a stick, who cares ? Sometimes i find trekkies a bit ridiculous…

77. caz316 - November 19, 2008

I cant wait to see that movie,but some of those thing make’s not sence.
Uhura is suppose to wair gold at some point in the begining. I dont recall Chekov being commande by Pike.
Kirk meeting Scotty,he is suppose to be on the enterprise at the time of the cage with Sulu and Spock and no 1 play by Miss Margel Baret wairing gold or blue only.
And,I hope we’ll hear about the Farrogut,KirK first commande.
But thank god,the Enterprise look great in those shots,not like the picture we saw 2 weeks ago.

78. Pikomen - November 19, 2008

How old is Kirk supposed to be in the Corvette-over-the-Cliff scene cause he’s due to live on Tarsus IV by 2246 at age thirteen?

79. USS Jon - November 19, 2008

in reguards to E being built.
i think that after Kirk has been told whats what, and that he has to make something of himself by Capt. Pike. (in San Fran).
He goes off on his bike, all emotional,(skywalker looking at the 2 suns moment) and sees the ship (might not be E) and makes the choice to join starfleet.
therefore built in SF, im not from CAL but im sure there are big open dusty spaces….

80. Adam E - November 19, 2008

Is a katana standard away team equipment?

81. Q Macedonia - November 19, 2008

And what’s with the Klingon prison guards, wearing Dixon Hill coats?

Bob, I demand immediate explanation. :))))

82. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - November 19, 2008

73 – nice!

74 – good one! That actually occurred to me as I was writing, but I didn’t want to incite any ire.

“you’re all clear kid, now let’s blow this thing and go home”

83. FreddyE - November 19, 2008

@53

We don´t know if this is a normal stick shift. There are cars with automatic today that have a kind of “virtual stick shift”…in my parents car you push the lever to the right and can then switch like with a normal stick shift…altough of course there is no clutch.

The car Kirk drives might be a similar. Some kind of “semi automatic”…that mimics a stick shift but has no clutch. This would explain why Spock had to remind him about the clutch on TV….Kirk knew how to use the stick shift…but not about the clutch.

Would make sense, right?

84. Pikomen - November 19, 2008

Isn’t The Federation banner W-shaped, red and with only the text UFP and stars on it during this era?

85. harris250 - November 19, 2008

Hello….Iowa corn field….I’m going to keep at this until…people get used to the fact that it’s the E being built in Iowa..Iowa….Iowa….Iowa….

86. BLFSisko - November 19, 2008

A little off toppic, however: Does anybody know, if Level 1 Entertainement is still involved into the project? The were mentioned in the teaser, but not now in the trailer.

87. USS Jon - November 19, 2008

is it the Enterprise being built?

88. Ian B - November 19, 2008

“And, perhaps, The Children Shall Lead.”

I swear to God, if this movie doesn’t include the Gorgan, I will demand my money back. It just isn’t Star Trek without Melvin Belli in a dress.

89. Pikomen - November 19, 2008

How cool would it be if Kirk’s uncle punishes him for totalling his Corvette by sending him off to live with fosterparents on Tarsus IV :)

90. jw wright - November 19, 2008

#77

pikes XO must be in this movie, right? the mysterious number one is legendary, i’m sure she makes a brief appearance in this story.

i’m not so worried about uhura’s uniform color, maybe the day she wore gold was landry day, and she had to borrow?

the farragut days of kirks service is also legendary, it must be mentioned in this installment, certainly.

the new 1701 does look better as a streaky blur…

how long does it take for a constitution class ship to be built?

i’m guessing several years… if the enterprise was commissioned when kirk was 14, actual construction likely took place many years afterward… the 1701 wasnt the first connie, the uss constitution ncc-1700 was the first.

91. Bored Trek Fan - November 19, 2008

This is the best breakdown yet… and thank you….

The Cage happened 13 years before the Menagerie… and according to this which we are seeing… Enterprise has her maiden voyage with Pike, and that’s it, then she is Kirks…

You know Hollywood Directors, They love to change things…

92. harris250 - November 19, 2008

#83

You’ve got to be kidding….I give up….I’m out…

93. Revenge of the Kirk Trek Modeler! AKA Captain Quirk, AKA Mysterious Stranger. :) - November 19, 2008

Frakkin “A”! Just what I predicted years ago during my tenure at TrekSnore and TrekPulse! Whoot! (w00t). I love it! Let the crying commence. :) Uhura and Kirk? Can’t say I didn’t see that one coming. Did anyone notice how closely the ship resembles the one that Gabriel Koerner created? Anyone? LOL. Called that one too. :) Can’t wait to see this, however, it does look like they have jumped the shark with an old “Vista Cruiser.” Can’t say I’ll really be able to call this “Star Trek” any more than “Enterprise”, or Nemesis. Oh well, such is life. Things change. Still, I’ll never be able to see anyone other than the Shat as Kirk.

Keep on Trekkin! =/\=

94. Neil - November 19, 2008

#85
You can chant “Iowa” all you want. I get that people THINK it’s Iowa, based on the corn field (which may not even be part of the same scene) and the fact that Kirk (who is FROM Iowa) rides up on a motorcycle.

Neither of those things – even put together – is conclusive proof that the scene where he looks at the shipyard takes place in Iowa.

Clever editing can imply a number of things. Just ask the people over at “Survivor”.

95. Rikarus - November 19, 2008

I am actually looking for forward to the movie, but I can’t believe they are going to instantly give Kirk the Enterprise, he didn’t actually get command of her until he was 31, and served aboard other Starfleet ships before the Enterprise.

I am gonna just pretend that since Spock came back in time to cheat, that it is one of the repercussions of the cheating.

96. zandor - November 19, 2008

Hell, maybe that IS Tarsus IV. Maybe Baby Kirk stole the Vette from the Tarsus Iv Museum of Science and Industry, and crashed it into Kodos Canyon. Who knows.

97. jw wright - November 19, 2008

#84 you’re thinking of the UFP pennant, not the flag:

http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/sftm.php

#88 now i have coffee all over my keyborad, thanks…

#89 yes, that would be cool

98. Luke - November 19, 2008

Do we know anything about the masks the klingons are wearing yet. Is it to cover the virus they got from ENT? or is it confirmed they are in the future?

99. Third Remata'Klan - November 19, 2008

Awesome. Thanks, Trekmovie!

100. Revenge of the Kirk Trek Modeler! AKA Captain Quirk, AKA Mysterious Stranger. :) - November 19, 2008

All hail the U.S.S. Koernerprise! :) Wonder what the fanboys over at Trekbbs and other sites are saying about the ship now?!?!

101. Spock - November 19, 2008

#32- It would wipe out the whole time line, similiar to “Yesterday’s Enterprise”, which in effect changed the main time line with the introduction of Sela.

This doesn’t seem to be a major reboot as compared to what RDM did to Galactica. Of course Galactica only had 17 eps, and not a 40+ year history.

102. Mike - November 19, 2008

How do we really know from this trailer that the scene with the Enterprise being built is in Iowa? Could Kirk not be in the Academy in San Fran and taking off to sneek a peek at his destiny?

103. Remco (Netherlands) - November 19, 2008

Anyone else thinks the cop sounds like Optimus Prime (Peter Cullen)?

:P

104. Aqua - November 19, 2008

Just like there’s a Fayetteville GA and a Fayetteville NC, perhaps there’s also a San Francisco Iowa in that century ;)

105. Lyle - November 19, 2008

Hmmm…. a movie that involves a classic automobile being taken out for a joyride and then wrecked by a fall – and the person destrying the car is a future captain of the USS Enterprise…

Star Trek XI?

Or Ferris Bueller’s Day off?

:P

106. BK613 - November 19, 2008

53
Technically the car in “A Piece of the Action” appears to be badged as a 1930-ish Cadillac V-16, similar to this one:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Cadillac_V-16_Roadster_1930.jpg

Truth is, though, people tend to forget, especially if the knowledge is something they having needed to access in many years.

107. Joao Vasco Almeida - November 19, 2008

#61

Make that concerns for two.

You’re right on spot

108. Cato the Llama - November 19, 2008

I live near a quarry in Iowa, actually. There are plenty of limestone quarries here.

Just none that deep, methinks. :P

109. CJS - November 19, 2008

Kirk passes by Iowa corn fields on his way to California. There’s no reason to think that there is not additional time and space between passing the corn field and seeing the ship. Like the missing scene with the corvette top being opened and flying back to distract the cop (who is human, just wearing a full helmet with face plate that provides protection and advanced scanning capabilities e.g. weapons detection).

110. Neil - November 19, 2008

#108
Might not be deep quarries in Iowa now, but a few hundred years from now? Just like there might be corn fields in California.

111. Neil - November 19, 2008

#109
Agreed. Those two shots *could* show the beginning and end of a three-day road trip, for all we know.

112. Mr. Fanboy - November 19, 2008

I’m pretty sure this will be a very entertaining movie. But J.J really needs to come clean and admit this is a “reboot”. The fact that Leonard Nimoy reprises Spock for a bit, and that it bridges the TNG era from the future just does not give them license to claim this is anything more than a thorough “reimaging” of Trek. I would respect them much more if they just came across and admitted that.

Clearly, it will be a new “Star Trek”, totally new. They are re-writing canon under the guise of the butterfly effect. It will still have characters and situations that bear great similarity to the original series, but it’s not the same “universe” as the original series. Hopefully it will be as captivating as the original, but I have great doubts about that, but wish them luck…

113. jw wright - November 19, 2008

#93 if only this ship look like keorners ship, then i’d feel alot better about it, but it does not in many important ways. and does not even possess the proportions of a pre-refit 1701A.

#95 that would not be credible at all, just handing a graduate the very latest ship, the best the fleet has… kirk served aboard the farragut, where he distinguished himself and who earned the big chair on the 1701.

114. thorsten - November 19, 2008

About the Iowa Situation…

At he start of the bar scene IOWA is written on screen, like in the X-Files…
Kirk fights the cadets, and has his sit down with Pike. Pike tells him he has till next noon to arrive at the place where the shuttles leave, if he wants to join Starfleet.
So Kirk has to decide what to do with his life, and rides his bike down to the shipyard. In the trailer you see the fresh blood from the fight on his shirt, and in his face. Kirk rides a “normal” bike, nothing hovering and fancy. But he can reach the ship the same night of his barfight. I never drove from Iowa to SF, but I guess it will take mor than 12 hours…

115. freezejeans - November 19, 2008

I love the large structures that can be seen in the background in the Iowa shots, very nice touch.

116. falcon - November 19, 2008

I still think there’s a chance the Big E could be assembled in San Francisco (or one of the suburbs thereof). When he’s riding his bike next to the field, is that corn, or are those grapes? Could it be Napa Valley?

I’m just sayin’…..

117. harris250 - November 19, 2008

Ok lets try a different tack….when Kirk is seen in the Iowa corn fields on his bike, one can see in the background the booms and other equipment that are holding the E in place as its worked on….

118. RoobyDoo - November 19, 2008

The surface of Vulcan looks great. Does anyone know if the colour of the Vulcan sky as seen in the trailer will be ‘Vulcan-ized’ before the movie is released?

119. Ryan - November 19, 2008

#94 – I feel the same way. The scene was filmed near Bakersfield, CA (maybe wrong). But who’s to say that Kirk’s uncle didn’t move him and his brother out there? Then San Fransico would only be a few hours away.

120. harris250 - November 19, 2008

#116
grapes! Nappa Valley!!…your killin me…thats great stuff …..

121. James - November 19, 2008

Ah, canon…

1. Kirk driving stick – arguably he can’t, as he manages to drive the car off a cliff!
2. Enterprise could’ve been built in Iowa and COMMISSIONED in San Francisco
3. Encountering Romulans before ‘Balance of Terror’ – do they actually know that they are Romulans?
4. Pike gets promoted to Fleet Captain – is this like a Commodore or an Admiral? Or does it actually mean Starship Captain?

Food for thought…

122. hamsandwich - November 19, 2008

”Agreed, thats the only part of the trailer that really bugs me, the Robocop is lame, Kirk driving a car is just… grrr and the little kid is bloody annoying.”

But thats the coolest thing about this trailer, the mixture of elements.

And the Robocop sent shivers down my spine, especially when it starts to talk.

123. Hat Rick - November 19, 2008

82, thanks. (Also thanks to the person who complimented me on my kudos for Kirk in another thread.)

88, perhaps now that Belli is no longer with us, we could find another famous lawyer? Absent that, perhaps someone who plays a lawyer. Perhaps even Mr. Shatner himself? Talk about a cameo! ;-) (We’d have to can the dre — er, I mean, the robe, though.)

124. captain shroom - November 19, 2008

Admittedly, I went through the trailer with similar attention to detail. I’d still rather not speculate on the plot, however. I find it much better to just let the story be told and leave it at that.

I loved that shot of the big E in the shipyard (wherever the hell they build it). The design has similar attributes to the original, gives the impression its fast even when standing still.

Action, sex and that familiar claxon alarm…all Trek.

125. Revenge of the Kirk Trek Modeler! AKA Captain Quirk, AKA Mysterious Stranger. :) - November 19, 2008

113. Koerner did two versions of “His” ship and this very much looks like a cross section of the two. Note the nacelles, saucer shape. deflector dish…etc… To me this looks a lot like his first draft. The differences lay mainly in the 3ndary hull. At least that’s how I see it.

Keep on Trekkin! =/\=

126. Admiral_Bumblebee - November 19, 2008

I doubt Kirk will have a brother in this movie. It would destroy the character of an abused, lonely child.

But as I recall correctly Kirks brother was older than James. So, when the timeline altering attack on the Kelvin happened a few days before James Kirk is born, then his brother must have already been alive.
I wonder how they will explain his absence in the movie (if he isn’ there which I believe…).

127. CantWaitMan - November 19, 2008

I understand better now thanks.

128. BK613 - November 19, 2008

Iowa license plate number 12213; other numbers on the plate include “1253″ and “3753″

Cop’s # is 924

What?! How can this be a real ST movie without a “47″ in there somewhere? lol

129. giskard - November 19, 2008

Conclusive evidence that the shipyard is in Iowa – it’s right there in the shot. Look at the sign to Kirk’s right, it says:

AUTHORIZED PERSONNEL ONLY
120374
IA

Given the layout of the lettering, I’d say the “IA” refers to Iowa – at least that’s how I refer to the state I live in, now home to the birthplace of the Enterprise…

130. Neil - November 19, 2008

#129
That, to me, looked like a “1A”, not an “IA”.
But I’ll go look again.

Thanks!

131. USS Jon - November 19, 2008

its 1A

if it was IA then it would be the same font and colour

132. Bk - November 19, 2008

Perhaps the Enterprise is built in Iowa and then “launched” from San Francisco fleet yards in Earth orbit? Just a guess.

133. The Underpants Monster - November 19, 2008

First of all, c’mere and lemme give you a big ol’ smooch, Trekmovie staff – this post reminds me just how great you guys are.

I love, love, love the Vulcan city. It’s exactly how I would have imagined a Vulcan city to look, odd angles and all.

Pic 15 – when I fist saw it, I thought it must be an actual TOS shot thrown in as an Easter egg. The really, really looks like TOS Spock.

Pic 16 – the editor in me can’t resist pointing out that “hangar” is misspelled.

So, are the women walking around with cold arms, or are the men walking around with hot arms?

Orbital skydive – TEH KEWL!!!

Did Simon Pegg get his teeth done?

Pic 43 – That facial expression is pure Bones. Urban, I think I’m gonna like you.

My own little aesthetic nitpicks that struck me enough to mention, but that I’m sure won’t affect my enjoyment of the film:

1. I appreciate that different actors look different, but dang, Shatner’s eyes were such a striking, distinctive color that it seems odd to me that they didn’t change Pine’s at all. They could have even done it in post with no need for contacts. Oh, well.

2. Future space bras haven’t changed at all from today’s model? Seems odd. And a bit uncreative.

134. Paulaner - November 19, 2008

Too many spoilers here.

135. AJ - November 19, 2008

My brother is a Corvette freak. Confirmed proper enginse sound, etc., and use of stick-shift.

How does “cadet” Kirk become Captain? Isn’t there anyone else in the chain of command?

136. steve - November 19, 2008

Enterprise “built” in Iowa.

Have I missed something or, is it not a fact that Pike commanded the Enterprise and it was refit before Kirk took over it’s command?

Could the ENT have been built in SF and then refit in IOWA?

With Pike commanding the original and the refit (until Kirk takes it’s command in this timeline (“timeline”?)

Skewer me…now.

137. Joe - November 19, 2008

Anthony,
Kudos to you for the breakdown. The story’s really coming together now!

138. Bones Thugs & McCoy - November 19, 2008

This is the greatest page in the history of the Internet

139. JC - November 19, 2008

I’m curious where the “sleeve” rank braids are supposed to be on the female officers, when they are all apparently have “sleeve-less” uniforms.

Unless they’re all ensigns?

140. AJ - November 19, 2008

Klingons definitely wearing helmets. Armor provided by London Fog

141. EM - November 19, 2008

I’m very excited by the prospect of a canon busting reboot! It is like listening to a fantastic, modern cover of a favourite song. Why are so many fans stuck on canon? Why is it so hard to accept new concepts in a favourite science fiction story. And why is it so important to know where the Enterprise was built? I eagerly await a new slant on this old favourite of mine!

142. harris250 - November 19, 2008

#129=Thank you
#133=I agree Vulcan is visually stunning….apparently the Vulcans take their building style from nature…

143. EM - November 19, 2008

P.S. to my last post.
Great job on this article. Love it!

144. harris250 - November 19, 2008

oh ya and congratulations to the great state of Iowa…the new home of the USS Enterprise!!!

145. jw wright - November 19, 2008

#136

the 1701 was refit after pike, but why drop it into a gravity well to do so?

easier to refit in orbit.

easier to build in orbit, but thats another story…

i’m let down by the female duty uniforms, no sleeves?

no legendary starfleet cleavage?

they just look odd…

146. TrekMadeMeWonder - November 19, 2008

Wow! I am waiting to learn more of Scotty’s fate on the Ice planet.

147. fred - November 19, 2008

I’m just wondering why the ship was built on earth when we see it leaving the enormous starfleet HQ space station? Wouldn’t it make more sense to build it inside there? I’m just wondering at the logic of this…

148. Wastedbeerz - November 19, 2008

So I guess it’s not like the TNG era where you have to pain stakingly test and try to pass an entrance exam (Wesley Crusher) to get into Starfleet which is an *exclusive* organization? Is it just “show up if you want to work, shuttles leave in the morning” in the TOS era? I’m confused…

149. Ian B - November 19, 2008

Glad I’m not the only person who doesn’t like the sleeveless women’s uniforms. It ruins the balance of the original design classic. Seems to me that the costume designers were so focussed on miniskirts, they missed the point in some way.

150. David Highlender - November 19, 2008

One of those Trek movies where I will have to shut off the part of my brain that says… “no no…no that isnt…no stop it hurts…….”

Pretty much what I did with “Enterprise” until Manny took over writing the third season. I’ll go see it, I’ll enjoy it, but if “Trek” finds out I will say it didnt mean anything to me.

151. Ralph F - November 19, 2008

Yay! The SPOCK’S TIME SHIP makes an appearance. Was really really hoping for a “Guardian of Forever” cameo, though it would have frakked up a few things in canon. Still, that doesn’t seem to matter too much anymore, does it?

152. Clinton - November 19, 2008

The redshirt is wearing red. Yay!

I, too, am a bit confused by the Enterprise construction image. I thought I saw city lights in the background in the first teaser trailer.

One question: Are the buildings seen in the distance, very hazy and gray, in almost all the “Iowa” shots supposed to be farming structures or are they CGI buildings of some sort? They seem to be everywhere.

153. Bk - November 19, 2008

Also, perhaps Captain April is a unseen person in charge of building the Enterprise. So in a slight way he is the first captain of the Enterprise. Again just a guess.

154. Wastedbeerz - November 19, 2008

141 – I don’t know what planet you’re living on, but I haven’t heard a “fantastic” modern cover of an old song in a loooong time… especially on what passes for radio in this country… those are very few and VERY far between. And i’m still convinced almost everything will still fit with canon, however loosely.

155. star trackie - November 19, 2008

#32 “Paramount would piss off a lot of TNG fans if that continuity was wiped away. ”

So? Those are the fans that stayed away from Nemesis in droves and didn’t support Enterprise, effectively delivering the last kicks to an already dying horse.

With this movie Paramount is trying to revitalize the franchise and bring in a new fanbase. TNG fans and their desire for continuity aren’t really in the equation.

156. Yspano - November 19, 2008

@ 103
I thought the cop sounded like Lawrence Fishburne.

157. thorsten - November 19, 2008

[155] The future is not as grim as you paint it…
actually there is an explanation for everything that fits the needs of everybody, including the TNG fans.

158. VOYAGER's WARP ENGINE - November 19, 2008

103. Remco — Actually I thought the cop sounded like James Remar.

159. New Horizon - November 19, 2008

141. EM -

People cling to familiarity. I fight it, and do my best to keep myself aware of it and not let it take over my thinking.

I find that a lot of Trek fans obsess over the show. I loved it growing up, and embrace the philosophy…but I’m not going to hover over it and guard it like a mother bear guarding her cubs.

For a lot of people, I guess it’s like clinging to a favorite childhood blanket. Yeah, I could do that too…but I’m not going to. If we don’t open our minds, we get trapped in repetitive cycles and very soon…we become the our grandparents, cranking and complaining about how much better everything used to be.

Trek fans seem to pride themselves on how accepting and open minded they are, but a lot of the comments on this site the last few days have certainly made a joke out of that. Sure, it’s only a few people…but still…the refusal to see anything beyond ‘black and white’ does nothing to inspire confidence in the fan base.

If this movie unites a majority of the fanbase, and brings in the general public….is that not far more representative of Star Trek than the members only club it has become?

I look forward to seeing this fresh interpretation. None of the previous movies have really been better than average to be completely honest. I find it amusing when people here start screaming about this new Star Trek being ‘dumbed down’ when The Wrath of Khan itself was an action/popcorn flick. The one movie everyone seems to love is full of phaser fights. The Motion Picture, being high concept is considered the worst by those same fans. The Directors Edition of TMP is my favorite of the Trek films.

160. Wastedbeerz - November 19, 2008

155 – It would be foolish for Paramount to just simply “wipe away” all continuity from TNG & beyond… keep in mind this also affects ENT continuity as well if this happens due to all the time travel, temporal incursions, etc. But yeah, don’t establish something so deeply and for so many years if you’re just going to wipe it away.

161. SPOCKBOY - November 19, 2008

Great article.
Slightly off topic, I sincerely hope this drawing is inaccurate

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/schematics/constitution-reimagined.jpg

162. Is there in truth no beauty - November 19, 2008

When you indroduce alternate timelines CANON really doesn’t matter anymore. Once the Romulans went back in time- or Spock for that matter- all bets were off. The incident where young Kirk is taught(or not taught) to drive stick shift or sent to Tarsus IV is now in play. With the arrival of the Romulan ship, Kirk may be called to Enterprise BEFORE his assignment to the Farragut – which will not happen now. Or will it?? Does Kirk’s first cameo end up with an assigment to Farragut?
We can spend form now until some one blabs the spoilers speculating…
All we can hope is that they’ve made a GOOD MOVIE!!!
One that will inspire more…

163. Trekman - November 19, 2008

female rank braids anyone? i mean c’mon i love the new sexier uniforms but you cant let something that big get rolled under the bus just to make the outfit look skimpier.

164. The Underpants Monster - November 19, 2008

Yeah, being condescending is a great way to promote unity and acceptance.

165. Bob, the Evil Klingon Frontline Leader - November 19, 2008

Let’s trry this to get around canon – Enterprise is manufactured near Iowa City (take that Iowa State U!) and assembled in the San Fransisco orbital shipyards.

166. subatoi - November 19, 2008

I think it was Kurtzman who said that when we see the whole bridge it will look better than what it looked like on the first picture. Well, from those pics above, it doesn’t really improve the first impression.
But as I wrote before, the E can be pink, as long as someone will paint it before the end titles…

167. Yspano - November 19, 2008

@ 166
Heya, having difficulty taking the bridge seriously, too? ;D

168. Cobra Commander - November 19, 2008

The time ship kinda looks like it’s flying out of the Nexus.

Very 60′s looking patterns in Uhura’s bedroom and on the clothes under the bed.

I love it! Come on MAY ’09!!!!!

169. the_law - November 19, 2008

about the cliff/ravine in Iowa…

a lot can happen in 250 years.

I’m just saying: maybe folks in Iowa were bored one day in like, say, June of 2184 and they tried to dig their way out…to China!!!

I bet they used that thing like the Romulans are using on Vulcan. Alcohol was probably involved. That’s why the cops are patrolling it so much on hover bikes when Kirk’s joyriding around there.

See, it all makes sense. Now when’s trailer 3 coming out?

170. JR - November 19, 2008

CANON ALERT COMMENTS:

Animated episode declared: “her unit components were built in San Francisco”. This could mean that some assembly was required in Iowa and possibly more fine-tuning in space.

Earth/Romulan conflict did occur before Balance of Terror, just not face-to-face. They are not supposed to know what a Romulan looks like.

171. Peter - November 19, 2008

To everyone wondering where the proof is that the Enterprise shipyard is in Iowa — look on the far right of that construction picture at the sign that says “Authorized Personnel Only” — there’s a number and also the abbreviation “IA” on the right corner of the sign

172. Closettrekker - November 19, 2008

#24—-”The canon violations are not that big, i can live with’ em. But remains to be seen how big are they going to be in the movie.”

I would stop you at “canon violations”…

They may be seemingly contradictory, but they cannot be “canon violations” if the timeline has been disrupted.

If Romulans (from the future) attack the USS Kelvin 4 days before the birth of James T. Kirk, then everything from that point in the year 2233 (since Orci has told us he used the ST.com bio’s to determine their birth years) is subject to change. This is not the timeline with which you are familiar.

Moreover, the existence and possibility of alternate timelines being created by interference with the past is in itself “canon”, and has been since the first season of TOS. Therefore, this is very much “canon”.

173. Tox Uthat - November 19, 2008

If all this conjecture of a change in timeline happens, I’m ok with that. Makes some sense in that anyone who travels back in time would change something concerning the future.

If not, then I fall on the side that this movie is a reboot and an origins story. JJ has clearly stated (and Nolan has shown with the Batman franchise) that this movie is an introduction to a new generation of fans-to-be, with an attempt to satisfy the old generation fans in some way. As in Batman Begins, this flick needs to set up the backstory, the history of the characters, and move forward from there. I believe Trek canon, as it is now, can be convoluted. We’ve had 40 years of Trek info to digest it. JJ has 2 hours.

If you’re locked into canon, then I’m sure you’ll be disappointed. If not, then it should be a fun ride.

Let’s face it, kids: If this Trek doesn’t work, all we’ll have are those 40 years of reruns, new fan films on the ‘net,and, of course, paperbacks. There won’t be a new Trek on screen, at least for a very long time.

PS: Unless there’s an establishing shot in the actual movie, nothing says Iowa more than a corn field.

PPS: Here’s one from the Gamma Quadrant: If Kirk is getting it on with Uhura, maybe it’s a wink-and-a-nod to The Great Bird’s affair with Nichelle, way back when. hehe.

174. Garovorkin - November 19, 2008

Looks like the time line is going to affected. Oh well who care, looks really cool though.

175. JL - November 19, 2008

164

Since when did stating facts in a friendly way become condescending?

The guy is right. He even admitted he does it himself. (fights change)

Go wax your car somewhere else.

176. Gornorrhea - November 19, 2008

Does it make me any less of a fan that I don’t give a crap about stick shifts and where the ship is built???

177. montreal paul - November 19, 2008

Anything I have read says that the Enterprise was built at the San Fransisco Shipyards…. who’s to say there is not a San Fransisco Shipyards in Iowa? There is actually a Montreal shipyards in Levis, Quebec.

About Kirk driving a stick now and having problems 20 years hence. Ummm.. driving a 65 Corvette and driving a 30′s version Caddy are completely different. Add into the mix that the 30′s version was an alien car, not an earth car… and the fact that it has been something like 20 years since he drove a car.. you don’t think he would be a little rusty at it??

Geez.. people are so quick to yell “Canon!” without thinking.

178. SolFlyer - November 19, 2008

For give my ignorance, but how do we know that the Enterprise is being built in Iowa?

What am I not seeing that identifies the location as Iowa?

179. NickT - November 19, 2008

The Enterprise could be being built in the dessert in California, not necessarily in Iowa, Kirk could be already in Starfleet acadamy and just be visiting the ship. Supposedly World War III happend so, the gorge in Iowa could be from the war.

180. Jordan - November 19, 2008

I look forward to the prequel comics that start off in January. That should provide some interesting background and maybe some info on how all this time travel/altering stuff will work.

181. thorsten - November 19, 2008

About the Iowa Situation…

At he start of the bar scene IOWA is written on screen, like in the X-Files…
Kirk fights the cadets, and has his sit down with Pike. Pike tells him he has till next noon to arrive at the place where the shuttles leave, if he wants to join Starfleet.
So Kirk has to decide what to do with his life, and rides his bike down to the shipyard. In the trailer you see the fresh blood from the fight on his shirt, and in his face. Kirk rides a “normal” bike, nothing hovering and fancy. But he can reach the ship the same night of his barfight. I never drove from Iowa to SF, but I guess it will take mor than 12 hours…

182. ster julie - November 19, 2008

#61–Bonus points for you for use of ote word “Cringeworthy”!

Let’s fix this Iowa vs. San Francisco thing. Perhaps parts of the Big E were made in Iowa, but then the whole thing was shipped in pieces into dry dock above SF for assembly, so there. It’s kid of like cars in the US. The parts are made in Canadian or Mexican factories, but they are assembled here and called “American made.”

So that IS an Orion cadet Kirk is in bed with? I thought it was just the lighting. I thought it might have been Carol Marcus.

And no one has ventured a guess as to that silver knobby thing under the bed with Kirk. Looks kinky.

183. EM - November 19, 2008

176 – I’m with you on this one. I am a huge Star Trek fan. I love the characters and the possibilities. Shipyards, cars, timelines…not a prerequisite for me to stay a fan and enjoy this.

184. GraniteTrek - November 19, 2008

Well, it could be that San Francisco is where the Yards are based, but the construction areas are spread around. You don’t need to be near an ocean when you’re flying up, not sailing away. And Iowa is flat, free of obstructions, and low population, which to me makes it a good area to build colossal starships

185. thorsten - November 19, 2008

[182]

And no one has ventured a guess as to that silver knobby thing under the bed with Kirk. Looks kinky.

It’s actually a shoe…

186. Jorg Sacul - November 19, 2008

Did anyone notice the alien among the cadets? Tall guy, putty colored head in the middle of the cadet muster shot. Not human, definitely.

And, in fact, IS that a roll of duct tape on the nav console?

187. CaptainRickover - November 19, 2008

Kirk can drive a car:
Okay, perhaps he forgot it after that incident or he was brainwashed. Overall, it’s not a major canon problem, but could have handeld with the same outcome without violating it.

Enterprise beeing build in Iowa:
Well, another mystery of the USS Enterprise NCC-1701. Perhaps we see an experimental refit of the ship Pike commanded in THE CAGE: That experimental refit-phase could have been canceld a few months before TOS and starfleet attached a new old-style secondary hull on the original saucer. But I still don’t like the look of the new Enterprise. To abandon the San Francisco yards is unnecessary. I would have like it much more to see that ship build somewhere in the near of the Golden Gate. But IF this version the Enterprise is in fact just an experimental refit, then I will have no problems with Iowa. There have to be hundrets of such yards around the globe.

Possible death of Pike:
I don’t hope so. That would really violate canon and is unnecessary too. He just could have been promoted at the end and leave the Enterprise.

The iceplanet monster:
Stuipid idea. Does need Kirk his own Rancor-moment? Here you can see Abrams’ Star Wars influence. Nothing against strange lifeforms, but are there only the ones out with big claws and giant teeth?

Nero at Rura Penthe.
A very good idea. The first good idea of that movie, IMO

The klingon helmets:
The second very good idea of that movie, IMO. If you think of the size of that helmets, these two guys have to war ridges. The helmets give them also a more proper warrior-style as in any of the movies or tv-shows before. Well done, JJ.

The skydiving suits:
The third very good idea of that movie, IMO

The time ship.
I like the design. Very unique.

Nero’s ship:
Sad we can’t see more of it. The colour sceme is nearly black, what remind be a bit on the Scimitar in Nemesis.

The Kelvin:
I like that ship too. It looked more TOS-style than the new Enterprise.

188. Closettrekker - November 19, 2008

#177—”Anything I have read says that the Enterprise was built at the San Fransisco Shipyards…. who’s to say there is not a San Fransisco Shipyards in Iowa? There is actually a Montreal shipyards in Levis, Quebec.”

Nice.

“About Kirk driving a stick now and having problems 20 years hence…”

I think a better explanation is that in the original timeline (when Kirk has his father present), he never learned to operate a manual transmission. In this altered timeline (when he does not have his father present), he does.

It’s very simple, really.

#178—”(Forgive) my ignorance, but how do we know that the Enterprise is being built in Iowa?

What am I not seeing that identifies the location as Iowa?”

Apparently, some people are able to see the sign in the bottom right hand corner of the still shot alot better than you and I can. According to those people, the sign reads “Authorized Personnel Only”, and includes the abbreviation “IA” for Iowa.

189. thorsten - November 19, 2008

[186] An alien like him, or the same guy, is wedged in between Kirk and Uhura as he tries to flirt with her in the bar scene in IOWA…
Comic relief.

190. Can't Wait for Labor Day 2009 - November 19, 2008

#162 I agree with everything you say. Once someone or something goes back in time, things have changed. So that brings up the question is Kirk still alive in the 24th century?
#177 you read my mind about the whole stick shift controversy that canon fanatics are bring up.

191. Drew - November 19, 2008

First off this movie is looking to be simply amazing.. and.. I have to wonder if a couple of sequels away will be Balance of Terror v2.0???

192. Schtobes - November 19, 2008

Two quibbles…

1) Is it not common for ships to be built in one location and then christened in their home port? It’s built it Iowa, but because it’s a Starfleet vessel and Starfleet is headquatered in San Francisco, San Fran is considered its “home port.” Therefore, the dedication plaque can read San Fran and the ship can still be built in Iowa.

2) I hope I’m not out to lunch, but Earth encountered the Romulans pre-’Balance of Terror’, knew they were called Romulans, but just didn’t know what they looked like, correct? That’s why the neutral zone exists in ‘Balance of Terror.’ So again, no canon violation there unless they actually SEE the Romulans. And canon could still potentially remain intact if the only Romulans humans see in the movie are the bald/tattooed/chopped ear Nero variety.

193. 750 Mang - November 19, 2008

So even with this alternate timeline theory I’m at the very least disappointed.

I thought we were going to get to see how our crew came together not the Bizarro Universe Trek crew.

194. cugel the clever - November 19, 2008

#47
“This will be the most dificult task to grasp. Making this movie part of canon or part of the real timeline and still possible to Balance of Terror to happen.”

There is no such thing as “the real timeline”. TNG episode “Parallels” established that there are an infinite number of parallel concurrently existing timelines, each one just as valid as the next.

All of this whining about canon violations is irrelevant. This movie is simply focusing on one of the parallel universes in which the Romulans interfered in early Federation history and caused a deviation from the timeline/universe we saw in TOS.

Get over it, canonistas.

195. Dr. Diehard - November 19, 2008

Sulu with a samaurai sword? Didn’t Takai say they wanted to do that for “Naked Time” but he thought that it would be too cliche? Why do things have to be dumber to “get new fans?” Why couldn’t they write a story that would agree with continuity and be exciting and vibrant? It looks like lazy writing to me. Also, I always saw Kirk as a guy who could fall in love at the drop of a hat which isn’t the same as a horndog. Why do a prequel at all? If you can’t come up with something new don’t tarnish the old good stuff. Viacom is getting less of my money from now on.

196. Broker - November 19, 2008

Altho I am aware that Rachel Nichols plays an Orion, I think the Orion Kirk is bedding is Diora Baird.
Diora’s… nacelles are quite large and so is this young woman’s :)

197. New Horizon - November 19, 2008

164. The Underpants Monster – November 19, 2008
Yeah, being condescending is a great way to promote unity and acceptance.

Sorry if you took it that way, I was simply commenting on the behavior I have seen over the last few days. As someone already mentioned, I too have had to fight with myself internally over accepting the changes. All I’m saying is, a lot of people get locked into one frame of mind and you can’t break them out of it. A fictional universe might as well be a real one as far as some are concerned.

After thinking things through rationally, there is really no good reason why I can’t let go of the past. Trek is just a show, with players and writers. I am not going to get bent out of shape over a TV show/movie series. There are far more important things in life. People need to find something to ground themselves in situations like this where they get carried away. For me, that grounding comes from thinking about my father and his struggle with cancer back in 2006. I held his hand as he took his last breath. NOTHING is more important than that…and makes any argument I might have over a fictional universe seem pretty small in comparison.

198. Closettrekker - November 19, 2008

#187—-Captain Rickover, if the timeline was altered due to the attack upon the USS Kelvin by Romulans from the future in the year 2233, why should anything play out the way it was suggested and/or depicted in TOS?
It seems that Kirk’s father is killed in this altered timeline, therefore his upbringing is quite different. He learns to drive an automobile with a manual transmission, his entry into SFA is delayed, and who knows what else? He certainly ends up having a much more significant relationship with Pike (who apparently serves aboard the Kelvin with the elder Kirk).

Furthermore, the attack on Vulcan also does not happen in the original timeline. Pike’s fate may very well be different because of that.

It is reasonable to believe that these acts (Kelvin and Vulcan attacks) would radically alter the course of events in the Federation.

I would liken it to the 9/11attacks upon the United States in 2001. Imagine how different the mood and state of affairs in America (and around the Globe, for that matter) would be had those terrorist attacks never taken place. The World has been changed.

If you prefer a different kind of analogy, look back to “COTEOF”. Something as simple and seemingly harmless as McCoy’s prevention of the death of Edith Keeler in the street caused the Nazis to win the Second World War and the UFP/Starfleet never to exist.

There is no absolute with regard to known ‘canon’ as it pertains to events which take place after the timeline incursion. It seems that only events which occur before that remain unchanged.

There would still be an Earth ship that crashes on Talos IV, and a survivor named Vina who is “repaired” by the Talosians (since all of that occurs 6 years prior to the Kelvin attack). However, there may never be any “fight on Rigel VII”, nor any visit to Talos IV by the Enterprise under Pike’s command. Who knows?

Orci and Kurtzman have handed JJ Abrams a giant ‘canon’ loophole (since the very existence and possibility of alternate timelines being created by interference with the past is in itself ‘canon’).

There is very little point, IMO, in trying to explain it within established continuity, as that continuity may very well no longer be a constant.

199. JC - November 19, 2008

#186 – That sure DOES look like a roll of duct tape on the nav console….

It’s good to see that “technology” has stood the test of time and is alive and well in the ST era! :)

200. Izbot - November 19, 2008

Seems clear to me that the Romulans alter time pretty extensively by destroying the Kelvin (and Kirk’s dad). Kirk ends up having an abusive uncle raise him. The Enterprise is built in Iowa instead of SF (and designed slightly differently). Kirk probably never even meets Gary Mitchell or that blonde lab technician everyone assumes was Carol Marcus. This Kirk never has a son named David. Pike probably dies on this mission instead of rendezvousing with those delta rays later.

My guess is Nimoy-Spock will make some observations on these differences. This timeline is not quite the timeline we remember witnessing.

And you know what? I’m cool with that.

201. DennyC - November 19, 2008

The Enterprise could have “San Francisco” on its registry plate even if it wasn’t built there. Because the Starfleet is headquartered in San Francisco, all Starfleet ships (at least at this juncture in time) would likely list San Francisco as their home port.

I can reconcile this that the notion that the Enterprise was BUILT in San Francisco is merely an assumption that has been drawn from canon. SF is merely her home port. (Someone the other day mentioned the Titanic by analogy (scary thought) — she was built in Dublin, owned by an American, but registered in Southhampton, England, which is the city listed on her stern).

I’m not extremely concerned with all of the minutae of canon, but even for those who are I think that this can be reconciled.

As for Kirk driving the car, let me just say this (1) he apparently didn’t drive it terribly well judging from the result, (2) a lot of time passes between that scene and “A Piece of the Action,” and (3) He’s driving a much older, less sophisticated type of car in “A Piece of the Action.”

202. DennyC - November 19, 2008

And yes, every time I see the cop I expect him to say “Your move, creep.”

203. CaptainRickover - November 19, 2008

# 193
That was mine thoughts too. They had all the books and all the episodes availale and USED them (so they said), So, why so much canon violation? The crew in an alternate timline would be – of course- never THE crew. If this new crew will be sucessfull with repairing the timeline (what I hope so), then this entire origin-story would be meaningless.

If they not, then only TOS will be irrelevant (TNG, DSN and VOY and all ten movies could still be happen) for trek-universe’s history. That would be a shame! So, I hope there will be some canon explanations aside the alternate timeline-theory. That one sounds a bit cheap and all to easy. Good writers as Orci and Kurtzman would come up with something very clever, wouln’t they?

204. Broker - November 19, 2008

Oh and this thing is gonna be awesome by the way :)
I am a lifelong Trek fan and I totally get what Abrams is trying to do here.
I think it’s best to think of it this way, the Spock who comes back in time is NOT the Spock from the Trek we know. He’s the Spock from THIS Trek.
The reason it’s Leonard Nimoy is to honor what the original is while effectively “retooling” a new saga.
So when Robert Orci I believe it was said, “It’s not a reboot or a re-imagining” he was sorta right. Because they are freeing themselves from a continuity that was far too complex to allow creative freedom while retaining those elements there are important.
It’s like an alternate Star Trek.
It doesn’t destroy what we know, it just gives us a different take on it. Things will be the same, but different.
Canon really doesn’t apply. Frankly, canon has become such an issue with current Trek that this is the direction they needed to go in. Starting almost from scratch. Not trampling over what the original did by rebooting or erasing it but just giving us a different look at it.
The more rabid Trek fans out there who have dismissed the film entirely because it’s not “the Trek they know” might do well to remember that.

205. Irishtrekkie - November 19, 2008

about the car thing , first kirk cant drive a car built by the Bela Oxmyx’s , these guys are Aliens , just because the car looks the same as cars we had , does not mean it works the same ,it could be something simples like they reversed the gears , or swaped the paddles , this would be very confusing to someone like kirk who knows how to drive .

And maybe the enterprise was built in san fan , just assemled in Iowa ? ( yea i know sounds weird) …………also not to nitpick cause i am sure its the enterpirse but in that picture i dont see NCC-1701 anywhere ?……..it could be another constitution class ship ? (yea i know long shot )

206. Shatterhand - November 19, 2008

@161

Save for the saucer needing to a be a bit bigger, that’s pretty much accurate. Better get used to it.

207. Closettrekker - November 19, 2008

#203—Bear in mind that there is still the “final solution” that Orci says we will all have to see to understand.

This could very well mean that all (or at least most) of what we know of the original timeline is restored by the end of the film.

208. Sebi - November 19, 2008

Wow. So many canon-questions. So many speculations….And they all will be answered in May.

Or won’t they?? Anybody thought about that? What if JJ still will make us wonder about this and that….

That will be the day I’ll laugh my face off….

Come join the dark side! We have cookies…

209. Ardvark - November 19, 2008

LMAO @ 150

210. Ensign Ricky - November 19, 2008

Maybe that ship being built isn’t Enterprise but one of the other 13 Constitution class starships.

211. Jason L - November 19, 2008

The one thing that really concerns me about everything we’ve heard and seen so far is this notion of Cadet Kirk winding up in permanent command of the Enterprise. Not only does it nullify a HUGE portion of Kirk’s backstory and formative history, but it’s utterly preposterous to think that Starfleet would ever do such a thing. It’s bad enough that a disgraced cadet who was essentially smuggled on board could wind up in even temporary command during a crisis, somehow bypassing the entire chain of command, but there is simply no way he would be allowed to keep it no matter how hot s**t he is. I don’t think that’s just a fanboy complaint either, I think it’s the kind of thing that could destroy a lot of this movie’s credibility even with regular audience members who give it more than half a second of thought.

I’m holding out hope that Kirk isn’t really a cadet by this point in the film, that he is actually a Lieutenant or even a full Commander with a few years of actual service under his belt. Maybe he is wearing the black shirt not because he is a cadet but because he’s been suspended from active duty for cheating on the Kobayashi Maru test and the threat from Nero crops up in the middle of it.

Or maybe he doesn’t wind up in permanent command at the end. Maybe Pike survives and Kirk goes back to fill in the rest of those blanks in his backstory, serve aboard the Farragut, be given the Republic as his first real command, etc. before succeeding Pike as captain of the Enterprise a few years down the road, just in time for Star Trek XII.

Just don’t expect us to believe that a CADET would be given permanent command of Starfleet’s flagship. Please.

212. Robert Gillis - November 19, 2008

there are two “funnel” cloud formations (or shadows) in two eras that look identical: Kid Kirk in his Uncle’s Corvette (just right of center) and Young adult Kirk riding motorcycle in Iowa == is that the structure where the enteprirse is being built — it looks more like atornado?

213. Andrew - November 19, 2008

What proof is there this is not being built near San Francisco? The field Kirk rides by could be the vineyard fields of northern California? Unless I am missing something I don’t see anything stating it is being built in Iowa. Kirk could be in Starfleet Academy at this point and riding by the shipyards to view the construction.

214. Closettrekker - November 19, 2008

This story does not disregard canon. In fact, the ‘canon’ with which we are all so familiar is inherently relevant to the story.

Since Nero and Spock Prime both come from the original timeline, everything we know from that timeline must occur in order for the story to progress to the point where any of them actually travel back in time.

This is why STXI (or ST Zero) is not a “reboot”, nor is it a traditional prequel. It is, in fact, a very unconventional sequel, since the story has to follow events which have already taken place (ENT-Nemesis).

215. JL - November 19, 2008

204

Exactly. Well said.

216. Newman - November 19, 2008

#200 – Word.

Though I think its too soon to rule out Carol Marcus in a sequel, or to presume Pike will meet an early death.

217. Andrew - November 19, 2008

#211 My guess is Pike is promoted to Fleet Commander at the end. Kirk in TOS stated he met Pike once when he was promoted to Fleet Commander. This would loosley keep with cannon.

218. James - November 19, 2008

@211:

I concur – although there is the premise that Kirk isn’t actually a Cadet, but is actually at Command School at the Academy.

Canonical precedent – ST:II – Saavik is effectively a Lieutenant, but is attending the Academy and participating in training scenarios. Maybe Kirk is already commissioned, but effectively undergoing a booster course to get him ready for starship command? Hence the black shirt?

BTW, for anyone who has served in the military (‘cos I know there are a few of you that post here), please forgive my dumb civilian ass if this is a load of rubbish!

219. Rikarus - November 19, 2008

The end will have the Shat in a protoype holo-deck, he will shut it down, and with a sigh say, “Well that was certainly different.” Walking towards the door, he mumbles, I guess Spock is right, “I gotta stop cheating!”

220. Bob, the Evil Klingon Frontline Leader - November 19, 2008

I wonder if you can see the shipyards from the top row at Kinnick Stadium?

221. JL - November 19, 2008

Something I don’t think anyone has mentioned on this page:

I wonder if Shatner has seen the trailer and I wonder if he’s going to give us his two cents………..

222. Shatterhand - November 19, 2008

@204

I totally agree with your take on the movie. I look at this Trek the way most people look at Batman Begins and the Dark Knight. Those movies take place in a different interpretation of the Batman “universe”. Even the Burton/Schumacher films were set in a different “reality”, although both those movies and the Nolan films take elements from the original source material (the comics) to help make them palatable to the fans.

Maybe it’s the different element of fandom, but why does it seem more acceptable for the Nolan films to exist despite the previous incarnations of Batman, yet while the original Star Trek and its spin-offs continue to endure, this new movie is considered a threat to the franchise?

223. Closettrekker - November 19, 2008

#211—Now ‘that’ might be a legitimate complaint, assuming that is how it ends up playing out in the story.

I am hoping that we do ‘not’ see such a thing, but instead, see the story jump forward from the time he is a cadet to a point where he is a Captain years later.

Although to be fair, it might not be any more unrealistic than 2 Captains and five Commanders serving aboard the same ship in STV (a gross misallocation of personnel resources on the part of Starfleet Command if I may say so).

:)

224. JL - November 19, 2008

186, 199

I noticed that roll of duct tape also… must be used at one point for a quickie repair job. Another bit of comedy relief perhaps?

225. CaptainRickover - November 19, 2008

# 198
That alternate timeline-theory is quiet possible, but seems a bit of a cheap-trick as reason to change everything, IMO.

It is still possible to create a story without violating canon all to much (as I said, that car-incident is just a very minor violation, there could be thousands of reason why Kirk can’t drive a car some years later. I had driven a motorcycle once in my life, but can’t rember how I did it) and entertain the mainstream-audience – because they don’t care for canon – in both ways.

Nothing against a 9/11-analogy in Star Trek. I allways asked me where were are all the terrorists form outerspace who are not happy with the federation? Or the space pirates or the smugglers (one aspect I like about the Star Wars universe) ? But I still want my Star Trek philosophy preserved. There are a better future waiting, these romulan terrorists will be defeated at the end and the timline-changes repaired. To change the timeline from the very beginning would reduce all the events happend after the Kelvin-incident into something meaningless, because it is not the true history of our crew. TOS is, it came before and had the older rights to be count as the real trek-universe’s history IMO.

226. ety3 - November 19, 2008

I see a lot of people hoping for a reset button at the end of the film.

After so many Voyager, Enterprise, etc., episodes where all kinds of badness goes down and the characters changed and then they pushed ‘reset’ at the end of the hour and everything was hunky-dory, fans started complaining.

Now there’s a good chance there won’t be a reset button and you guys are mad about that, too?

227. AdamTrek - November 19, 2008

It doesn’t look like anyone has commented on the masked Klingon guards in the prison break scene. I wonder if they are wearing masks to cover up a certain genetic disease making them look more human that they are ashamed of.

However, did Star Trek: Enterprise establish that this happened to all Klingons or just some in the population.

228. Cpt. Retri - November 19, 2008

@211

what if old Spock tells everybody that history has proven beyond any reasonable doubt that young Kirk could be an excellent (to say the least) Captain given the chance, wouldn’t it make the whole ordeal more believable and justify somehow such promotion?

229. Broker - November 19, 2008

222
That Batman Begins analogy is perfect. Wish I’d thought of it :)
All the important elements are there, what was built where, who met who when and other established continuity should be set aside.
This is not canon Star Trek, this is shiny and new.
Can everyone please get past their pre-conceived notions about what this is cuz I can guarantee that aside from being Star Trek and having familiar names and places, it’s not what you think it is.
This is a whole new beginning, acknowledging the past, using Nimoy to pass the torch in a very real way, but starting anew.

230. earthclanbootstrap - November 19, 2008

Having been REALLY excited about this movie up till now…
This trailer pretty much made me recoil in… not horror or disgust, but maybe… uh…crap; I don’t know. It just really made me question for the first time whether this will be worth it. And the bottom line is that the thing they call the Enterprise is Ass Ugly. Add all of the apparently willful screwing with Trek history that they didn’t need to do and I am left absolutely cold.

231. Captain Crawford - November 19, 2008

Uhura showing her bra?! JJ Abrams, thank you!

In all seriousness, that is an awesome trailer. The sets look amazing, and I got really excited when I heard the Red Alert sound effect. And it’s just like James Cawley said, “the uniforms are perfect.”

232. John from Cincinnati - November 19, 2008

Sulu with a sword = Luke with a lightsaber

Klingon guards = Emperor’s royal guards

Kirk in a corvette = Anakin in a pod racer

Kirk vs. monster on frozen planet = Luke vs. Wampa on Hoth

Nero’s ship destroying planet = Death Star destroying planet

Interior of Enterprise = Interior of Tantive IV

233. pd18 - November 19, 2008

The important thing to note in regards to Canon is this:
If at the end of this movie, all events in the timeline match up perfectly with the events of TOS, then any potential sequel will suffer.
If we, as fans know that without doubt, Kirk dies in Generations, or that Spock dies in Wrath of Khan, only to be resurrected by Kirk and Co. in TSFS, then where will the dramatic tension come from in the future.
JJ and Co. are actually very smart to lay out the future of the franchise in this manner. All events will create, ESSENTIALLY the same universe, but with enough variation that future stories will leave open the possibilities of a different outcome. How can a viewer feel tension if they already know the main characters’ ultimate fate?

I’m loving everything that I’m seeing so far (Although I have to admit that the thought of the E being built in Iowa doesn’t quite sit right with me. A little too convenient that it would be built right in JTK’s back yard.)

234. JL - November 19, 2008

Come to think of it, maybe it’s not a roll of duct tape —

maybe it’s a roll of transparent aluminum tape!

heehee

235. S. John Ross - November 19, 2008

#229 sez: “This is not canon Star Trek, this is shiny and new.”

… and if the filmmakers would just admit that, there would be much rejoicing. But they’ve insisted time and again that it _is_ canon Trek, and I really wish they’d stop doing that, man up, and just call it a reboot so folks can relax.

236. CaptainRickover - November 19, 2008

# 207
Yes, to know what that “final solution” will be. is one of the most interesting parts of the story by now. Sad there are so many months until May.

# 211 & 223
Think about Lieutenant Saavik. She was allready an officer when she tried the Kobayashi Maru. And if I remember correctly (I could be very wrong about that, ’cause I haven’t seen TWOK since years) she was called sometimes “lieutenant” and sometimes “cadett”. That would allow Kirk to served aboard the Republic and the Farragut, before he tried the Kobayashi Maru in this movie. I hope it will go in this direction, but the truth only May 09 will show.

237. trekgeek - November 19, 2008

Here’s an idea. What if Kirk went back to Iowa after the whole Farragut incident, depressed, feeling a failure, and thinking if his career choice was the right one. Pike gives him the pep talk and away we go.

238. Captain Dunsel - November 19, 2008

Enterprise built in Iowa not SF?

Must be that the 23rd century Labor Unions in Iowa are more powerful than those of San Francisco!

Hope they don’t take a smoke break near the anti-matter nacelles!! :)

239. Spock's Brain - November 19, 2008

Just cause the car has “Iowa” license plates doesn’t mean it is in the state at the time we view it. Could be anywhere else.

240. John from Cincinnati - November 19, 2008

JJ’s made Star Trek Wars!!

241. JL - November 19, 2008

hey 232

Laser pistols = phasers

Tie Fighters that shoot lasers and have space battles = The Enterprise shooting phasers and having space battles

Going into “hyperspace” = going into warp speed

My point is, Star Wars copied from Trek and plenty of others, man. So put that in your pipe and smoke it!

242. P Technobabble - November 19, 2008

222 Shatterhand asked: “why does it seem more acceptable for the Nolan films to exist despite the previous incarnations of Batman, yet while the original Star Trek and its spin-offs continue to endure, this new movie is considered a threat to the franchise?”

My opinion is that the new movie is not a threat at all, but there is a certain faction of people (I have no idea who they are, really) who simply want this film to bomb. Maybe this faction of people is made up of disgruntled ex-Trek employees (although I cannot imagine that), or it is made up of truly disturbed Trek-”geeks.” It is obvious, however, who these people THINK they are!
I’ve been an undisturbed Trek-geek since Day One. I have seen absolutely every bit of Star Trek, in every form it has been presented in. I love Star Trek almost as much as I love the Beatles (dammit, I’m a musician, not a film-maker!). I have criticized Messrs. Berman and Braga for the liberties they took with Star Trek, but I still watched. I’m gonna watch the new film, too. I don’t feel upset about it, or angry, or disturbed one iota. I will agree that people can say, “You either love Star Trek or you hate it,” but I absolutely will not agree with those who say, “You either love MY version of Star Trek or you hate all Star Trek.” Rubbish…

243. John from Cincinnati - November 19, 2008

241.

Get out of your parent’s basement and go kiss a girl!!

244. spiked canon - November 19, 2008

no need for me to post. Just multiply X2 everything Closettrekker says

245. Alex Rosenzweig - November 19, 2008

#42 – “What might be helpful on the “ship being built in Iowa” question is if somebody could post a link to wherever the slam-dunk confirmation is that the scene does, in fact, take place in Iowa.”

Well… If nothing else, the two big buildings in the background are the same in both the ‘vette sequence and the Enterprise construction sequence, so it looks like they’re the same place, whether it be California or Iowa.

BTW… Y’know, it just hit me. In this continuity, Morrow’s line from “Trek III’ might actually end up being right.

#48 – ” I’m not keen on Kirk spying on Uhura, but I won’t get all outraged about it unless, in the movie, there are some objectionable shenanigans in this regard.”

Assuming the Orion girl is Uhura’s roommate, I was thinking more that Kirk’s doing more hiding than spying at that moment, but I could be wrong…

#89 – Exactly. I think that’d be a neat tip-o’-the-hat to Kirk’s established history.

#141 – “Why are so many fans stuck on canon?”

Speaking solely for myself… Because consistency enhances believability, and believability makes for better storytelling.

246. John from Cincinnati - November 19, 2008

238.

San Francisco – Starfleet gets destroyed by Nero’s ship. Remember the shoot at Cal State Fullerton? Spy reports showed the actors wearing Red uniforms (cadet) pointing and running for cover.

247. CarlG - November 19, 2008

Random thoughts:

Eep. Nero’s ship looks like good old-fashioned nightmare fuel.

Hurrah for Uhura’s old-school earpiece!

That is the funniest-looking screencap of McCoy ever.

Sulu + katana = badass.

Planet Vulcan looks beautiful — and if I’m not mistaken, I’m pretty sure I spotted the infamous “Kirk’s Rock” in the shot with Sarek and Amanda. You know the one — it’s in about a bazillion TOS episodes.
Does that count as a cameo? ;)

248. James - November 19, 2008

@241:

Don’t forget that they also called it the Imperial ‘Starfleet’.
And they try to lock the Milennium Falcon in a tractor beam.
And Luke mentions wanting to ‘teleport off this rock [Tattooine]‘.
And they use ‘proton torpedoes’ to destroy the Death Star.

249. Databrain - November 19, 2008

What’s with the smoke emanating from the barrels in the image of the enterprise construction? They’re burning fossil fuels in the 23rd century still? In the construction of something as advanced as a starship no less? Pathetic. Canon has it that explicit that fossil fuels were no longer in use by the 22nd century.

250. spiked canon - November 19, 2008

databrain there has to be another place for you to post where people might care what you have to say

251. Xindi1985 - November 19, 2008

How do you know about Rura Penthe?

252. JL - November 19, 2008

249

Maybe it’s something else, like steam? How do you know it’s fossil fuel?

253. James - November 19, 2008

@249:

It’s fairly safe to assume that they’re doing some kind of metal-working – the construction material for the hull would probably have to be tempered by make it tough. Molten metal still smokes, regardless of what method you’re using to heat it. The smoke isn’t necessarily coming from burning fossil fuels.

Also, if said metal-working is happening on site, then they’ll be needing something to cool the metal down. It might not be smoke at all. It could be steam.

Just a thought.

254. 'Beach - November 19, 2008

188-Closet
I looked at the pic in question as close up as my crappy work PC would let me, and it doesn’t look like a “1A” to me at all. The “A” looks like a graphic or a logo of some sort, and I cannot even confirm that it is, in fact, a “1″. So I don’t think that that’s incontrovertible proof that this is Iowa.

And for somebody who mentioned it upthread someplace, this COULD be California, outside ‘Frisco, because there are, in fact, crop fields of all types all over the state. I myself am a California native and have seen corn fields, wheat fields, orchards, vinyards, you name it, first hand. And in the still shot of Kirk on bike, the field looks to me to be grassy and flattened, like a pasture of some sort. In neither shot did I see anything remotely resembling a corn field. In the car chase, yes. I saw them. That can be Iowa, if you will.

255. Daniel Decker - November 19, 2008

I’ll just have this to say.

GET OVER CANON.

WTF does it matter? Trek needs this badly. We, as fan base, abandoned the last great hope Trek had in Enterprise. It’s just a story and these characters deserve to have stories told about them. Let this be the new canon.

What is with the need to shoehorn this into that? Let the story stand on it’s own and appreciate what these people are trying to do for a dying franchise.

The old canon is a yoke that desperately needs to be shed. Some of you are way to obsessed with “facts” in a fictional universe. Better now to accept the REBOOT that this new movie has obviously become, than try to “fit” it in with what came before.

Does this in anyway take away form the great stories that have already been told? NO, it does not. Those are still great stories, great timelines, great little trekverses, and so to shall this be.

Embrace it and move on, or abandon Trek yet again, either way, it’s the die hard “Cling-ons” that make me regret being a Trek fan at all.

I’ll be there in May, with bells on, about to pee myself with excitement, and ready to be thrilled by the prospect of this great American icon being given the chance to Live long and Prosper.

Thanks for you time,

256. Dennis Bailey - November 19, 2008

Someone over at TrekBBS has identified the “joystick” things that stick up on the front of the navigation helm console as Symbol 2000 barcode scanners, unaltered in appearence.

The similar devices on the aft “maitre d” podiums appear to be LS 1900 series barcode scanners.

Do Google image searches on those product names and you’ll see. :-)

257. Databrain - November 19, 2008

‘I totally agree with your take on the movie. I look at this Trek the way most people look at Batman Begins and the Dark Knight. Those movies take place in a different interpretation of the Batman “universe”. Even the Burton/Schumacher films were set in a different “reality”, although both those movies and the Nolan films take elements from the original source material (the comics) to help make them palatable to the fans.’

There’s a major difference though. Comic books have always been opened to interpretation and artistic license. When dealing with a property as expansive as trek, you have to take into consideration the amount of previously established output there has been. There have been roughly about 700 episodes of star trek in all its various incarnations, which establish a specific sequence of events. There have only been a handful of batman films.

258. Pr011 - November 19, 2008

You know, I was waiting to have my haircut today and I heard on BBC Radio 1 (a national radio channel in the UK) the presenters talking away about this new film in a really positive way, even playing the TOS theme and discussing the trailer (and Simon Peggs accent).

That’s when I knew this film might just suceed.

259. Databrain - November 19, 2008

So, in other words, messing with trek history is no different than messing with tolkiens world and altering tolkiens characters to suit an agenda.

260. John from Cincinnati - November 19, 2008

“I never really liked Star Trek. I was more of a Star Wars guy.” – JJ Abrams

261. AdamTrek - November 19, 2008

#249 Databrain

Elementary, my dear Databrain.

It’s water-cooling barrels used for the hot insertion of the plasma into the Enterprise. The ship is currently on standby, so to speak, so plasma that is injected into the ship’s plasma conduit system, must be externally cooled until the warp-core is brought online before launch. Kinda like life-support for a human, except the plasma is controlled by keeping it a little cool vs. human blood being kept warm (98 degrees) until the heart is beating again (aka warp core is started up again).

See, simple reasoning. Fossil fuels, no.

262. spiked canon - November 19, 2008

not aware of any Tolkien spinoffs….but yes

263. Aaron - November 19, 2008

Do we care more about canon or more about this movie being better than Nemesis? I mean, this movie would have to be a two-hour clip show of Captain Archer’s greatest ‘My father once told me…’ scenes to be worse than Nemesis. As long as Spock doesn’t shoot lasers from his eyes I’m happy.

264. JL - November 19, 2008

256

Well, I’ll be… !

265. trekee - November 19, 2008

The odds on not knowing the whole plot prior to May are shrinking fast :-)

Great article, thanks.

As someone said earlier, if it was a reboot then we’d just get over it but I do think it’s being cleverer than that. We shall have to see.

About people polarising things though… I have to say the side shot of the E with the Ent-C truncated secondary hull is horrible to me, as is the iBridge but I’m still looking forward to the film, still like the rest of the look of everything (including the E I should add) so just because there are bits that don’t work for some people, that’s no reason to get uppity. There’s room for infinite viewpoints surely?

Right, now off to check Spockboy’s pic…

Peace and long life.

266. Closettrekker - November 19, 2008

#225—-” …these romulan terrorists will be defeated at the end and the timline-changes repaired. To change the timeline from the very beginning would reduce all the events happend after the Kelvin-incident into something meaningless, because it is not the true history of our crew. TOS is, it came before and had the older rights to be count as the real trek-universe’s history IMO.”

That is a valid point of view, but you should not overlook the potential benefit of a scenario where everything is ‘not’ restored to the way we always knew it to be.

Look at it this way. In the “original” timeline, we already know exactly what happens to James Kirk, McCoy, Spock, Scotty, etc. At no point in future stories could any of these characters be placed in true “jeopardy”. We already know how their lives and/or careers end.

Where’s the beef?

George Lucas’ Star Wars prequels suffered from this as well. We already knew the end of the story! There was no question of “who, what, and where”. There was only “how”. IMO, that doomed the SW prequels to mediocrity.

The alternative is that, ending this story with the fates of our beloved characters as yet uncertain, we are awarded the benefit of ‘not’ knowing the story’s end. The characters ‘can’ be placed in jeopardy.

“Dramatic jeopardy” is an element which should not be overlooked, IMO.

Besides, the “reset button” has been pushed on so many of these alternate timeline scenarios already.

What’s wrong with a different approach this time?

What’s wrong with watching stories from different timelines?

I do not find it “cheap”. I find it original (assuming that everything is not restored to what it was). What makes it original is that the reset button is ‘not’ pushed this time around.

We get everything that is good about a “reboot” (dramatic jeopardy for the characters, freedom from canon constraints, etc), and yet it isn’t really a reboot at all (since all previous continuity in the original timeline is required to get the story to this point).

I think this has the ‘potential’ to be very interesting. I just hope it realizes that potential.

267. Databrain - November 19, 2008

‘I’ll just have this to say.

GET OVER CANON.’

No.

268. ML31 - November 19, 2008

It is wrong to assume that just because the scene before it was likely in Iowa it means that the adult Kirk was riding his bike in Iowa as well. I wouldn’t make the assumption the early adult Kirk scenes were in Iowa. They could be anywhere. (Hopefully at least NEAR SF as that is where legend says the big E was constructed)

I am also going along with the idea that Pike gets promoted after this incident. Thus, Kirk saying he met him when he was promoted still works…

Wait… That doesn’t explain Pike knowing Kirk’s family and talking him into the starfleet. Unless when Kirk answered the question in “The Menagerie” he just didn’t want to get into the family history…

I’m thinking this over too much. I just want to enjoy the movie when it comes out!

269. James - November 19, 2008

@259:

Not sure I agree 100%… we’ve already got precedents for Trek canon being messed with to a certain extent, but I see your point.

Still, this film doesn’t appear to have any glaringly nasty canon violations, and touch wood, it won’t. The proof, as they say, will be in the pudding.

270. s-o-matic - November 19, 2008

182

Exactly.

“U.S.S. ENTERPRISE”
Designed by Apple in California.
Assembled in Iowa.

:)

It looks great! I can’t wait.

271. That One Guy - November 19, 2008

Weren’t there Romulans before TOS? Namely, the Earth-Romulan War?

I didn’t watch much of “Enterprise” but weren’t there Romulans in that, too?

272. spiked canon - November 19, 2008

OMG 256 you are right …ok I take back everything. This is a shotty movie ; )

273. JL - November 19, 2008

260

Stop trolling, you’re not adding to any discussion, just making a nuisance of yourself.

274. WVtrekker - November 19, 2008

A note on all the cannon alerts: Since this involves Romulans messing with the time line, certain cannon elements can go out the window. What we may see in the end is what historians call a “second order counter factual,” where the flow of history is changed at a certain point. But later the greater historical pattern reacerts itself. That would be especially true if an elder Spock is trying to stop the Romulans! In this case we can have Kirk entering Starfleet via a different route. And, in this case it might be Captain Pike who is the catalyst for getting him in (maybe urged by Spock.) We’ll see.

275. WVtrekker - November 19, 2008

A note on all the cannon alerts: Since this involves Romulans messing with the time line, certain cannon elements can go out the window. What we may see in the end is what historians call a “second order counter factual,” where the flow of history is changed at a certain point. But later the greater historical pattern reacerts itself. That would be especially true if an elder Spock is trying to stop the Romulans! In this case we can have Kirk entering Starfleet via a different route. And, in this case it might be Captain Pike who is the catalyst for getting him in (maybe urged by Spock.) We’ll see.

276. Symbol 2000 barcode scanners - November 19, 2008

Buy me…I stand the test of time.

277. Symbol 2000 barcode scanners - November 19, 2008

Check out the pics….wow

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=Symbol+2000+barcode+scanners&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2

278. James - November 19, 2008

@271:

Earth-Romulan War – this was covered in ‘Balance of Terror’. As it was before the advent of visual subspace communications, no human had ever SEEN a Romulan before, and they certainly knew very little of Romulan technology. ‘Balance of Terror’ was the first time that they encountered the cloaking device, for example.

The Treaty of Algeron, which ended the war and established the Neutral Zone, was signed by subspace radio. This is also why Kirk & Co. were so surprised that Romulans look like Vulcans in ‘Balance of Terror’.

279. Gary - November 19, 2008

Hey look closely at the Authorized Personnel Sign in the lower right hand corner where Kirk sees the ship under construction. You can clearly see the letters IA. Guess it was built in Iowa.

280. Adam - November 19, 2008

My question is: what is McCoy saying in the trailer? I can’t make it out… something like “Space is disease… darkness and silence…” or something? Can someone shed some light on this?

281. SweetLode - November 19, 2008

Did anyone notice that weird reflection traveling up under the nacelle of the Enterprise 56-58 seconds into the trailer? What’s with that?

I believe that it has been misinterpreted from the trailer that J.T. Kirk was riding through several scenes (showing the passage of time and distance) on a motorcycle to see the Enterprise (could very well be another constitution class) under construction. That would be a very sad FAIL if JJ decided to change the build location to Iowa.

282. JC - November 19, 2008

276, 277 – And so will Dr. McCoy’s medical scanner salt shakers!

283. James - November 19, 2008

@280:

‘Space is death and disease wrapped in darkness and silence.’ Translation: ‘Space is nasty’.

284. Alex Rosenzweig - November 19, 2008

#193 – “I thought we were going to get to see how our crew came together not the Bizarro Universe Trek crew.”

Guess we’ll just have to stick with the books for that one, or wait a while longer for a filmed treatment, or convince James Cawley to do a “Phase II” episode with some flashbacks. ;)

#204 – ‘Frankly, canon has become such an issue with current Trek that this is the direction they needed to go in.”

It’s really only an “issue” for folks unwilling or unable to keep track of the basics.

#211 – “The one thing that really concerns me about everything we’ve heard and seen so far is this notion of Cadet Kirk winding up in permanent command of the Enterprise. Not only does it nullify a HUGE portion of Kirk’s backstory and formative history, but it’s utterly preposterous to think that Starfleet would ever do such a thing. It’s bad enough that a disgraced cadet who was essentially smuggled on board could wind up in even temporary command during a crisis, somehow bypassing the entire chain of command, but there is simply no way he would be allowed to keep it no matter how hot s**t he is. I don’t think that’s just a fanboy complaint either, I think it’s the kind of thing that could destroy a lot of this movie’s credibility even with regular audience members who give it more than half a second of thought.”

That was a reaction I had, too. It just rang false with me. But a statement of four years from Academy graduation to ship command does, too.

Still, we don’t know the whole story, so that issue may yet, as you note, be dealt with.

#227 – “However, did Star Trek: Enterprise establish that this happened to all Klingons or just some in the population.”

Some, not all.

#233 – “If at the end of this movie, all events in the timeline match up perfectly with the events of TOS, then any potential sequel will suffer.”

I would disagree with that.

(snip)

“How can a viewer feel tension if they already know the main characters’ ultimate fate?”

I think the question isn’t in whether the characters will survive, but how they get out of the situation, and what they take away from it. I mean, does anybody really believe that Batman’s going to die in a Batman movie, or that Superman or James Bond are going to die in their respective franchises? Of course not. We watch them for the fun and the adventure and the derring-do.

#237 – “Here’s an idea. What if Kirk went back to Iowa after the whole Farragut incident, depressed, feeling a failure, and thinking if his career choice was the right one. Pike gives him the pep talk and away we go.”

I’m guessing that that’s not what they did, but it would have been a spot-on-flawless way to handle that whole sequence in basic continuity while doing no injustice to the story.

285. C.S. Lewis - November 19, 2008

The automobile in “A Piece of the Action” featured a “crashbox” transmission — one without syncronizers on the hears. One shifted by “double clutching”, the art of matching the engine speed to the transmission’s input shaft speed. You must declutch once to drop engine RPM and then again to allow the gear shift. It is not easy!

In the 1950s, “synchronized” transmissions became available. These are huge miniclutches inside the transmission, riding on the gear shafts, and they automatically work to normalize the rotations, allowing a smooth, crashless shift of gears.

Corvettes always had synchronized transmissions, AFIK. Kirk could be a super shifter on the Vette and completely incompetent on the crashbox. Two distinct skill sets!

286. john doe - November 19, 2008

I still don’t think that’s “IA” in the sign. It looks more like some number/letter and the Enterprise mission logo/patch, not an “A”

287. John from Cincinnati - November 19, 2008

273.

Must have hit her pretty close to the mark to get her all riled up like that, huh kid?

288. James - November 19, 2008

@285 – CS Lewis:

Very interesting – thanks for clearing that up.

289. Clinton - November 19, 2008

One of the arguments for bending canon in a prequel could be to avoid the problem of already knowing everything that MUST happen in order to arrive at the destination. If Kirk has to do “X” and can never be seen with “Y” and Pike must not die until “Z”, etc. then the suspense is somewhat diminished.

I think it’s important to say true to the spirit of the concept, more than sometimes contradictory canon.

290. Closettrekker - November 19, 2008

#257—”There’s a major difference though. Comic books have always been opened to interpretation and artistic license.”

It is not Star Trek which has never been open to that, but a group of established fans (myself included) who have always insisted that the writers do their best to adhere to a fictional timeline of events.

“There have been roughly about 700 episodes of star trek in all its various incarnations, which establish a specific sequence of events.”

…All of which is required to advance the overall story to the point where Nero and his villainous cohorts take action to alter the past. That is why this is not a “reboot”, nor is it a “prequel”— but instead, it seems to be a very unconventional “sequel”.

Moreover, the writers seem to be using that continuity, or canon, to alter the sequence of events in this timeline, as opposed to the way certain events played out in the original timeline.

“City On The Edge Of Forever”, “Tommorow Is Yesterday”, “Assignment: Earth”, “Yesteryear” (TAS), etc., etc., etc.

The potential for the creation of alternate timelines by external interference with the past is in itself ‘canon’.

That element is part of the very continuity you are defending, and the ‘canon’ that I have embraced for over 30 years.

I don’t think I would be very consistent if I were to knock these guys for utilizing an element of legitimate canon to tell a story.

I’d much rather give it a fair chance. In fact, I think it might prove quite intriguing.

291. YARNm - November 19, 2008

Star Trek XI School of Apologetics

1. Change is necessary. From here we leap from the agreeable premise that casual movie audience does not want to see the original sets and old Enterprise, but something new and hip and contemporary, to the odd conclusion that this necessitates big changes in canon (which the casusal viewer is not familiar with in the first place).

2. No matter what change is made, to object to or question ANY change is (apparently)

a. a sign of to conservative resistance to ALL change,

and reveals one to be..

b. a geek/canonista/fascist.

3. We haven’t really changed Anything! It’s all an alternate timeline, so the original story hasn’t been violated.

EXAMPLES:

What? They changed everything in the name of change and you are uncomfortable with it? Don’t worry, it’s just an alternate timeline. Your reality has not been eliminated.

What? Your wife left you and is now sleeping around? Well, that’s just an alternate timeline. She has “reimagined” and “rebooted” your relationship (namely, youv’e been given the boot).

What? You want to pass the Patriot Act in the name of securing my “freedoms” — Well, just so long as you are secure my freedom. And just so long as fighters are “freedom fighters” and NOT “terrorists”, it’s OK. Just don’t change anything….

NOTE: This is tongue-in-cheek polemic. Read it is as hyperbolic satire – and not as a Jihad against the film.

Here is to hoping that they made all of us (fan and non-fan alike) a good film that will reinvigorate the franchise.

292. sean - November 19, 2008

Anyone talking about TNG’s timeframe not being altered by events that take place 100 years before it needs to pass the dutchie, because they’re clearly partaking. How can one future not be affected by DRASTIC alterations and another not? Come on.

Even so, TNG will always be there. Nothing is going to erase it from existence.

293. Ned - November 19, 2008

SEXIST!

OK, I’m a guy, and I know that historically the majority of Star Trek fandom is male, and lord knows Roddenberry’s sexism was always a little odd in a show that attempted to challenge racism and other isms….

BUT STILL…. If this trailer actually represents the film, women of the 23rd century are good for nothing more than being ogled, screwing and giving birth. Hell, even TOS Uhura pulled a phaser a few times…. Hell, director Nimoy gave us our first female captain 22 years ago, and badass female klingons have been with almost as long.

I’m fine with the miniskirts, fine with tossing out canon. But if you’re gonna throw out canon, why not give the women something better to do this time around? It worries me that in this whole trailer we never see Uhura or another woman kicking ass or taking command. Odd from the creator of Alias. Maybe it’s not representative… maybe it’s just the Promo Monkeys.

294. RoobyDoo - November 19, 2008

#256 Dennis Bailey

Clearly this is JJ’s homage to some of the creative (and inexpensive) prop choices made for TOS. ;-)

295. Dennis Bailey - November 19, 2008

“287. John from Cincinnati – November 19, 2008

273.

Must have hit her pretty close to the mark to get her all riled up like that, huh kid?”

Maybe. Or maybe “she” doesn’t like trolls.

296. sean - November 19, 2008

Also, here are my two questions:

1)Do we know that’s the Enterprise being built, and not just another Constitution class starship?
2)How do we know that Nero is being held at Rura Penthe? Very cool if true, but I’m just wondering if Anthony actually confirmed this with the writers/JJ?

297. Nelson - November 19, 2008

On the Enterprise being built in Iowa or San Francisco, I’m holding out that it is in San Francisco too. The research that Anthony and the staff here did is no doubt on top of the work and they are relaying the info as best as the info they get.

As others have said, the editing can really play tricks to imply it’s being built in Iowa. My thinking is that it’s San Francisco. The cornfield could be the vineyards of Napa.

I live near by San Francisco, I see the shipyards as they are today from hiway 101. Being that the sequence appears to be slightly dark and not clear as day, one could infer that it’s fog. San Francisco is known for fog. Like today, it’s very foggy here in the San Francisco Bay Area. And as another poster pointed out, Kirk could have ridden out to see the ship while at the Academy. So the fog could be a key piece of evidence here. Does it get foggy in Iowa?

One last thought, I thought that since Spock served on the Enterprise for 13 years with Pike, before Kirk, then that sequence could be the Enterprise being re-fit. Or they dropped that bit of history and say that Kirk and Spock are the same age. But I don’t think they did that.

298. Alex Rosenzweig - November 19, 2008

#263 – “Do we care more about canon or more about this movie being better than Nemesis?”

Yes.

:)

#267 – “‘I’ll just have this to say.

GET OVER CANON.’

No.”

Seconded.

Though I will agree there’s room for some flexibility.

#278 – “The Treaty of Algeron, which ended the war and established the Neutral Zone, was signed by subspace radio.”

The Treaty of Algeron was much later, ca. 2311, actually. The rest of the above is correct.

299. Jason L - November 19, 2008

#228 – “what if old Spock tells everybody that history has proven beyond any reasonable doubt that young Kirk could be an excellent (to say the least) Captain given the chance, wouldn’t it make the whole ordeal more believable and justify somehow such promotion?”

Sorry, not buying it. First, we know from the press screening reports that Old Spock doesn’t want his younger self to know about him, which would be pretty hard to avoid in the scenario you propose. Second, as I said before, for Kirk to take command in a crisis and acquit himself well is one thing, but promoting him directly to officer rank and putting him in permanent command is something else entirely and simply would NOT be done in anything vaguely like reality, not unless a state of war existed and Starfleet was spread too thin to spare anyone more experienced or something along those lines.

I think it’s possible that Kirk is not, in fact, a cadet but rather a Lieutenant like Saavik was or possibly even higher rank and that he was simply back at the Academy for command school. What worries me is that sources keep telling us the black shirt is a cadet uniform and the story leaks so far seem to suggest Kirk is still a student when all hell breaks loose. If that’s true and Kirk goes on to become the permanent commander of the Enterprise in a matter of days, I think it could totally blow the credibility of this film far beyond any of the nitpicky complaints of the hyperventilating fanboys, especially for a film that is supposed to have REALISM as one of its core ethics. I just can’t believe it’s going to play out that way. There HAS to be some other explanation based on stuff we don’t yet know.

300. dan - November 19, 2008

*Yawn

This looks more like Enterprise or Superman Returns. I haven’t seen anything really interesting, cool or new.

What happened to Exploring Strange New Worlds? Please don’t give me more saga on the Romulans or Klingons!

The y should have made a really cool Captain Pike movie. Clever CGI cameos of the original crew could be interspersed throughout going about their duties or passing by.

This is a ridiculous approach to have an all new cast, new adventures and backstories that don’t match the original series or source material.

I stand to be corrected, and hope I’m wrong. I will happily eat crow.

But what I’ve seen looks like “Nemisis” more so than the epic feel of Star Trek the Motion Picture or Wrath of Khan.

301. thorsten - November 19, 2008

[297] Nelson,

At the start of the bar scene IOWA is written on screen, like in the X-Files…
Kirk fights the cadets, and has his sit down with Pike. Pike tells him he has till next noon to arrive at the place where the shuttles leave, if he wants to join Starfleet.
So Kirk has to decide what to do with his life, and rides his bike down to the shipyard. In the trailer you see the fresh blood from the fight on his shirt, and in his face. Kirk rides a “normal” bike, nothing hovering and fancy. But he can reach the ship the same night of his barfight. I never drove from Iowa to SF, but I guess it will take mor than 12 hours…

302. Frank - November 19, 2008

That bridge looks like the cosmetic department at Bloomingdales. I expect to see a “Clinigue” counter in the background. Why so bright and white? Boy, makes me really appreciate what genius that original bridge design was – 42 years ago.

303. montreal paul - November 19, 2008

To the people still debating the Iowa vs. San Fran location of the Enterprise being built.. I said it before.. think about this…

who’s to say there is not a San Fransisco Shipyards in Iowa? There is actually a Montreal shipyards in Levis, Quebec.

304. Closettrekker - November 19, 2008

#244—”no need for me to post. Just multiply X2 everything Closettrekker says”

I am humbled by the compliment to my reasoning, and it is always nice to know there are others who share my views on certain things.

Thanks.

305. Brett Campbell - November 19, 2008

285 – Yes, very interesting, Prof. Lewis. Surprising, too. From everything I’ve read, you and your friend Prof. Tolkien didn’t know the first thing about cars and both of you gave up driving for being horrible at it. Unless you’re violating Inklings canon… ;)

306. Jordan - November 19, 2008

Those canon alerts were very glaring ones (especially Kirk meeting Pike.) Let’s hope they’re addressed, otherwise, the more detail-oriented Trekkies will be very alienated from this new film.

307. That One Guy - November 19, 2008

304,

Indeed you are wise, my friend.

308. jeffreyNdallas - November 19, 2008

#301

What bar scene? I don’t see it in the trailer. Where does it say “Iowa” on the screen.

From the clip, it would make sense you see him leaving Iowa. He gets to Cali and has bar fight then rides out to see the Big E being built. But, it all could be in Iowa and we just have to deal with it being different from what we know.

309. Dr. Image - November 19, 2008

I was thinking- what does this movie have in common with TOS?
Primarily, five things:

1) The name.
2) The ship’s name.
3) The character’s names.
4) Gold, blue, and red shirts.
5) Leonard Nimoy.

And that, sadly, is about it.
I guess that’s what they meant when they said they’re “honoring canon.”

310. Matthew_Briggsuk - November 19, 2008

The new Kirk is a little hottie. I just coudn’t keep that to myself anymore sorry ; )

311. Brett Campbell - November 19, 2008

280 – McCoy is saying, “I’m a doctor, not a poet.” ;)

312. Izbot - November 19, 2008

212. Robert Gillis –
“there are two “funnel” cloud formations (or shadows) in two eras that look identical: Kid Kirk in his Uncle’s Corvette (just right of center) and Young adult Kirk riding motorcycle in Iowa == is that the structure where the enteprirse is being built — it looks more like atornado?”

These appear to be megastructures — huge self-contained city-towers. Futurist architects are considering these even at present. The idea is to take better advantage of available space by building, essentially, a small city straight up into the sky thus maintaining a relativly small ‘footprint’. You can see these magastructures more clearly in the actual trailer.

313. Alex Rosenzweig - November 19, 2008

#292 – “Anyone talking about TNG’s timeframe not being altered by events that take place 100 years before it needs to pass the dutchie, because they’re clearly partaking. How can one future not be affected by DRASTIC alterations and another not? Come on.”

In all fairness, the question becomes, once all the smoke clears, how drastic *are* those alterations? Is it a relatively contained change in that certain character backstories are different and stuff like the ship and the sets look different, but general events could follow as before, or are there farther-reaching changes? That might be one of those things that has to wait ’til May for the answer.

In that vein, a very interesting quote from Mr. Abrams:

“The idea is really to re-introduce these characters in a different way, but they are the characters from the original Star Trek. It’s not a complete re-imagining… I figure if you re-imagine something you should just imagine something else”

314. magnumpc - November 19, 2008

#188 and #254:

I grabbed the image from the 1080p version, enlarged, and enhanced the sign in question.

My first take was that it was the “IA” Iowa abbreviation that everyone thought. But, now, I’m starting to think otherwise. It looks to me like a “1″ with a command insignia to the right.

What do you think?

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y177/magnumpc/shipyard_sign_closeup.jpg

315. Nelson - November 19, 2008

re: post 301. Thanks thorsten. I am avoiding reading anything that could be a spoiler. Your reply is a bit of a spoiler and I did read it, though not carefully. I don’t want to know about that aspect yet. And I avoided reading some of the captions of the scenes above.

I was just trying to see if it’s possible the ship is built in San Francisco. If not, that’s a pretty big change, or there will be a pretty good explaination!

316. thorsten - November 19, 2008

[308] I was not referring to the trailer, but to the “Bar Segment” of JJs presentation…

317. JL - November 19, 2008

Not to argue but I’d say your list is missing many other Trek elements. I’ll let someone else go to town on that… I have to get back to work…

closettrekker?

318. JL - November 19, 2008

(number 309)

319. charlie - November 19, 2008

In the shot of Uhura, it looks like she’s wearing the earrings TOS Uhura wore. COOL!

im such a geek
8)

320. sean - November 19, 2008

#309

Sounds like they kept all the right things, to this fan.

321. CaptainRickover - November 19, 2008

# 299
Take a look at the pictures: The “cadett”-uniforms are all red. But I guess they are just academy-uniforms and not for cadetts in general. Kirk just wears the black undershirt as everyone- for what reason ever, without a yellow shirt. If I would be one of the writers (Orci or Kurtzman) I would have taken the back-to-academy-after-farragut-disaster-way for young Kirk.

# 266
So… then why not an entire reboot?

#267 – “‘I’ll just have this to say.

GET OVER CANON.’

No.”

Affirmative!

#298
Though I will agree there’s room for some flexibility.

Affirmative!

322. Craig - November 19, 2008

Great Job!
Thanks for the scene breakdown.

323. Blowback - November 19, 2008

I’m sure this has been asked over the last few weeks and I just missed it. How does Kirk get promoted to Captain from cadet status so fast? Are we skipping through time?

324. Craig - November 19, 2008

Spock’s Time ship reminds me of Lazarus’ time ship

325. sean - November 19, 2008

#314

I’m pretty sure the thing you think is an ‘A’ is actually the Starfleet emblem.

326. earthclanbootstrap - November 19, 2008

I think that there are very few of even the most hardcore canonistas that would argue that there shouldn’t be at least some wiggle room with regards to continuity. I’m willing to be pretty flexible, given the somewhat elastic tendencies of Trek canon in the past. But this seems to be intentionally pissing on some pretty important established history. I get the whole time travel changed the stream of history thing blah blah blah, but quite frankly that plot device got used up years ago and I’m dead tired of it and if it’s the most interesting story they could come up with AND f*** up what’s already been established while they’re at it, then I may just say to hell with it.

The sad part is that they won’t have done anything to destroy my appreciation and love for Trek’s past, they will have ruined it’s future for me, and that is infinitely worse.

P.S. – is that Jango and Boba piloting Spock’s timeship? ;-)

327. Closettrekker - November 19, 2008

#299—-”If that’s true and Kirk goes on to become the permanent commander of the Enterprise in a matter of days, I think it could totally blow the credibility of this film far beyond any of the nitpicky complaints of the hyperventilating fanboys, especially for a film that is supposed to have REALISM as one of its core ethics. I just can’t believe it’s going to play out that way. There HAS to be some other explanation based on stuff we don’t yet know.”

I think so too.

However, I have to point out that, from a historical point of view, there are more than just a few precedents to what you and I are hoping is not the case.

Alexander commanded an Army and had conquered much of what was then the known World to him by the age of 18.

American Civil War officers (those who did not attend the USMA at West Point) were often given direct commissions to the rank of Colonel (the equivalent of which –in Naval/Starfleet terms—would be “Captain”) and the command of an entire regiment (which, in the American military, would be anywhere from 3 to 7 battalions, or anywhere from several hundred to as many as 5,000 men). These men often had very little to no official military training or experience, and simply came from wealthy or otherwise influential families on both sides.

Still, you make a very legitimate point. As a former US Marine officer, I can tell you that “battlefield commissions” are usually (and has always been so) temporary and generally specific to a given task or operation.

It would be more agreeable to me if what we are shown is instead different points in time, depicting Kirk distinguishing himself as a young cadet and, later, as a Captain who has several years in Starfleet behind him.

We’ll see.

328. YARN - November 19, 2008

# 323

Relax, it’s an alternate timeline where cadets get to run starships. Nothing has changed. Everything is possible. IDIC – be tolerant young minds – fresh ideas.

329. Jeffries Tuber - November 19, 2008

the car in ‘Piece of the Action’ would have had a choke, no? that could be a distinction.

but more importantly, in TOS, Kirk’s dad hadn’t been killed on the Kelvin. With a different father figure, or lack of one, his childhood would have been different.

get over the car thing, it’s silly.

330. AJ - November 19, 2008

302:

Bloomingdales! LOL.

331. Captain Joe (formerly Joseph Brown) - November 19, 2008

#47 The timeline has been altered so number 1 is correct. If number 2 happened you’re right that the film would in essence erase itself. However, there is a way for the original timeline to be restored and for this film to have meaning. The way I suggest is that it is a predestination paradox. That Nero is meant to alter the timeline and that in doing so he triggers a chain of events that will lead to the restoration of the old timeline, but also cause some significant thing to change that wouldn’t have happened if not for the time travel thus necessitating his original trip back in time (perhaps Spock Prime doing a special mind meld on Kirk that will leave traces that will remain once the timeline has been restored and younger Spock of the restored timeline finds those traces when he mindmelds with Kirk). Btw, it would also be a Pogo paradox since Spock Prime goes back in time to make things right.

332. cd - November 19, 2008

#193, #203 – agreed,

333. I Am Morg Not Eymorg - November 19, 2008

The confusion over whether the Enterprise is being built in Iowa vs. San Francisco is easy to understand as the clips from both the motorcycle and the corvette look similar. However, I do believe based off what we know and the wounds on Kirk’s face from the close up of his looking admiringly and longingly at the great Lady E that he is indeed in San Fran. I find it hard to believe that the bar fight with the cadets, his hitting on Uhura and talking with Pike happens in Iowa. And it has been confirmed there are shots in San Fran. I could be wrong of course but my gut is telling me that scene is set in San Fran.

Oh and doesn’t Winona look stunning in her clips. Sarek is a lucky dog.

334. Dennis Bailey - November 19, 2008

Some people would rather have the Trek Orthodoxy respected than have a new movie, because even without a new movie they’ll still have “Star Trek” products in venues other than movies and TV.

Some of us don’t give a damn about the Trek Orthodoxy or any “Star Trek” stuff other than the movies and TV shows, so we’re looking forward to a new movie.

It seems as if both groups can be satisfied in this situation – make the movie for the folks who don’t care about the Orthodoxy, and all the other products for the folks who do. ;-)

335. Closettrekker - November 19, 2008

#321—”So… then why not an entire reboot?”

This way, the continuity established in the previous timeline remains relevant. It is still very much a part of the overall story.

The Romulans cannot travel back in time to change the past if that “past” never happened. Everything has to play out exactly as it did before in order for the overall story to progress to that point.

Everything depicted in ENT, TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and all of the films must occur. It therefore remains very relevant for future viewing.

336. cd - November 19, 2008

314 – that “A” looks like a StarFleet insignia.

337. Donn - November 19, 2008

Nice breakdown.

Robocop: Hmm. Could still be an alien with breathing apparatus or a human with special armor. You ride a hoverbike at ridiculous speeds without a mask and see how well that works out for you. Plus, that cop has a sidearm on his boot; I don’t like the thought of androids running around earth packing heat. That seems a little too advanced to preserve the novelty of Data more than half a century later.

Iowa vs. San Francisco: It’s being built in Iowa, get over it. Makes sense, given the large open tracts of land, little population to be bothered by the noise, light, and industrial accidents. Plus, just where “in San Francisco” would you build it? It’s not exactly a large place, and as of 2008 is pretty well wall-to-wall buildings, with the exception of a few parks. I like the notion that since Starfleet Headquarters is San Francisco, that’s her home port (essentially the home port of any starship built anywhere on earth).

Structures in Iowa background: Arcologies?

Driving stick shift: Driving a relatively modern ’60s (or newer? retrofitted?) manual transmission is very different from driving a ’30s manual without synchromesh, built by aliens no less. I drive a stick every day, and I’m sure I would grind the hell out of that car in APOTA.

Pike’s promotion to Fleet Captain (assuming he isn’t promoted at the end of this incident, or wasn’t just promoted before it): it’s ONE line in one episode, almost off-hand. It’s just not that important a piece of canon to begin with, as far as the story of The Menagerie or the rest of TOS is concerned.

Sam: Why wouldn’t he be off doing his own thing? I don’t see why he would need to be in the film.

Romulans: if you really want to be bothered about canon, this is the only thing I see. There have been some good ideas here, but given how big an issue this is, I have faith that this is covered in the “canon violations will have a canon explanation.

As cavalier as I am about canon as long as the story is worthwhile, I DON’T think we are dealing with a timeline-shifting reboot here. With the one exception (Romulans), there isn’t anything seriously altered about the course of this film. “We never saw Chekov under Pike!” Well, duh, we never saw _Pike_ except for the one mission. Design changes (bridge, uniforms, Enterprise) have already been discussed to death; they are the result of the film being made in 2008, not of timeline alterations.

I am prepared, and gladly, to accept that following the events of this film the “story” is meant to proceed forward through the events of TOS and onward. No parallel universe or altered timeline necessary.

338. sean - November 19, 2008

#313

Certainly, and I understand where you’re coming from. But if events take place in a different sequence, even simple events, it will inevitably cycle down the timeline, even if it is a minor change. So when someone says ‘Oh, TNG will be completely unaffected then’, they aren’t being very realistic, are they?

339. Ryan - November 19, 2008

I know this deviates from the canon discussion. But does anybody else get the sense that the battle between the Kelvin will be very dramatic and somewhat emotional?
Obviously, the Kelvin would be outmatched, and Captain Kirk has to do all he can to prevent what is happening which includes sacrificing his life and ship

340. Blowback - November 19, 2008

328. YARN

I’ll be tolerant, no worries on that account.

It’s just that a jump from cadet to captain seems exceedingly strange. I’m certain there is a reasons, I can’t be the first person to notice the issue. Enterprise has been a cadet trainer in the past (or the future… ugh… time travel makes my head hurt), maybe that has something to do with it…

341. Anthony Pascale - November 19, 2008

guys, there are a lot of comments here about the above article that seem to be asking questions. People ask ‘how do you know?’ But obviously we cannot divulge our methods and sources. I only ask you to look back at the history of TrekMovie and previously reported points, many of which were confirmed in this trailer.

342. The Real Kobayashi Maru - November 19, 2008

As long as everythings explained as far as why the ENTERPRISE looks different and all that with a messed up timeline…

I’m fine with it all.

Just don’t want all of my years of trek to be for not. I want it to still be history. you know?

343. 750 Mang - November 19, 2008

The only hope I still have is that Nimoy agreed to do this movie. He doesn’t typically agree to do crap (Star Trek V accepted) – he didn’t participate in Generations for example.

Maybe this is all a huge misinformation ploy. I remember as a kid watching the first scene from TWOK and freaking out thinking ‘”Good God who is this Vulcan chick and why is she captain?”

Maybe the movie flips between our beloved timeline and different bizarro timelines.

Surley Nimoy wouldn’t have signed off on something as lame as ‘nothing counts where in an alternate universe now.’

For this we prey.

344. Robert Gillis - November 19, 2008

(Spock rescues his parents and other Vulcans during Nero’s attack on Vulcan)

CANON: Would seem to contradict Amanda’s line in Journey to babel about Spock and Sarek speaking as Father and on for 18 years — and if Spock saved Sarek’s life (or Amanda’s) would seem that Sarek would be pleased by this and drop disapproval of Spock’s starfleet career

(Explosion (possibly USS Enterprise sickbay where chief medical officer is killed))

CANON: Wonder if Chief Medical Officer Doctor Mark Piper is killed here — would seem to contradict “Where no man has gone before” where Piper was the doctor. Is Gary Mitchell in this movie? In “No man” Kirk was clearly already the captain for some time.

345. 750 Mang - November 19, 2008

#342

“Just don’t want all of my years of trek to be for not. I want it to still be history. you know?”

You said it brother.

346. Jack - November 19, 2008

“Timeline? This is no time to argue about time, we don’t have the time!”

347. YARN - November 19, 2008

#340

As long as he does not attack the Federation Trade ship and yell “Now, that’s pod racing!”

At any rate, I was offering sarcastic agreement with you. BUT, we don’t know how it’s all going to play out yet. IF Kirk is catapulted from Cadet to Capt., let’s hope they have one heck of an explanation (perhaps future Spock gets key players to agree that Kirk should be in charge of that mission or whatever). Or perhaps it does not play out that way at all.

One thing that does not make sense to me is that Kirk should be an Academy class or 2 or 3 ahead of the rest of the bridge crew. They should not be in the same academy class.

348. The Gorn Identity - November 19, 2008

Has anyone noticed that the Klingons are wearing ridge-molded masks in that Rura Penthe shot? Also, that Romulan that Sulu is battling on the drilling rig looks more like a TOS-era Klingon.

349. Mr. Curtis - November 19, 2008

they ripped off the tazmanian devil with that new transporter effect.

350. Nelson - November 19, 2008

re post 333 and thorston- I can concede that the Enterprise may not be built in San Francisco. I am not going to have a cow over that bit of info. Though I would be disappointed to find out it’s not being built there. I can see it being re-fit in Iowa.

Again, I am ignoring any spoilers, so I missed the evidence you mentioned.

Here’s a link to the wiki page for the San Francisco Shipyards, it’s pretty big and not in San Francisco Proper but right outside of the city:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Hunterspoint2006.jpg

351. Closettrekker - November 19, 2008

#309—-”I was thinking- what does this movie have in common with TOS?
Primarily, five things:

1) The name.
2) The ship’s name.
3) The character’s names.
4) Gold, blue, and red shirts.
5) Leonard Nimoy.

And that, sadly, is about it.
I guess that’s what they meant when they said they’re ‘honoring canon.’ ”

Actually, they are “honoring canon” by the very fact that they are utilizing ‘canon’ to alter events.

Is “City On The Edge Of Forever” not canon? “Tommorow Is Yesterday”? How about “Assignment: Earth”? Last time I checked, the potential for interference with the past resulting in an “alternate timeline” is very much ‘canon’.

Moreover—as I’ve said before a dozen times, the continuity of every series of Star Trek and all ten films is not suddenly irrelevant. It is, in fact, essential to the story. Nero (or Nimoy’s Spock, for that matter) cannot travel back in time to this period without those events playing out precisely the way they did. Everything you have seen of Star Trek is inherently relevant.

They have not failed to honor canon, whether the timeline is eventually restored or not.

And finally, Star Trek (and TOS, in particular) is the vision of a future for the human race in which Mankind does not destroy itself, but instead unites to conquer the social ills which plague us today and to explore the final frontier with peaceful intentions.

There has been no indication whatsoever that this vision has somehow been compromised by 4 huge Star Trek fans and one converted one.

Give me a break.

352. Tony Pieta - November 19, 2008

337. Donn

“Driving stick shift: Driving a relatively modern ’60s (or newer? retrofitted?) manual transmission is very different from driving a ’30s manual without synchromesh, built by aliens no less. I drive a stick every day, and I’m sure I would grind the hell out of that car in APOTA.”

You have a point there.Back in the early 80′s when i was starting to drive, I drove an early 60′s Willys Jeep for years, which had no syncronized transmission. After I finally had to say goodbye, it took me a very long time to break myself of the habit of wanting to double clutch every time i shifter. whole different animal.

353. thorsten - November 19, 2008

[350] Nelson, have you ever heard that the cranes in SF harbor were the inspiration for the AT-AT walkers in Empire strikes back, because Lucas was driving by them a lot?

;))

354. The Gorn Identity - November 19, 2008

#344 Robert Gillis:”CANON: Wonder if Chief Medical Officer Doctor Mark Piper is killed here — would seem to contradict “Where no man has gone before” where Piper was the doctor. Is Gary Mitchell in this movie? In “No man” Kirk was clearly already the captain for some time.”

Could be the death of Doctor Boyce, Pike’s CMO from The Cage/Menagerie. As for Gary Mitchell, he could always join the Enterprise following the events of the film.

355. Aaron R. - November 19, 2008

About the Iowa ship yard… Why not. Anybody ever heard of a place called Las Vegas Texas… Just because the ship yard is name San Fran doesn’t mean it is in San Fran Cali… Besides thats why the whole built in space thing came about anyway. It doesn’t make sense to build a huge starship in a big city you would want a large open plot of land to do it on… Hey they have land like that in the midwest! Plus it makes even more sense why Kirk is sooooo in love with his ship. It was practically built in his back yard he saw it coming to fruition as he grew and matured. Natural…

356. jw wright - November 19, 2008

#161

i’m afraid it is accurate:

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/schematics/constitution-reimagined.jpg

ugh.

it should look like this:

http://vektorvisual.com/projects/TrekXIEnt/gallery/OrthoSide.jpg

but it doesnt….

357. Tox Uthat - November 19, 2008

#326

Thanks for confirming my thought that Spock’s time ship looks like Boba Fett’s.

Just a comment, no canon issues.

Some are building a movie based on 2 min of a trailer. It seems to me that since time travel is being used, it makes sense that the story will have simple passages of time frames, ie; young Kirk, teen Kirk, maybe Lt. Kirk, then capt.

But keep it coming, gang. I can take another 6 months of petty bickering. Or maybe it’s time for my dose of cordrazine.

358. JL - November 19, 2008

“The tapes… weak… message is garbled… no, this can’t be right…


…it sounds like the captain giving orders to destroy his own ship!!”

(SEVERAL YEARS LATER…)

“Ship, this is the captain of the Enterprise… initiate destruct sequence 1-1A…”

There’s canon for ya.

359. bgiles73 - November 19, 2008

Has anyone else noticed that Spock’s Time Ship looks like the Time ship from ” THE ALTERNATIVE FACTOR”?

360. Tony Pieta - November 19, 2008

344. Robert Gillis

Be careful. Amanda said they had not spoken as father and son for 18 years, not that they had not spoken. that doesn’t mean that they may have spoken as Ambassador and Starfleet Officer without acknowledging who each other was.

/I’m just sayin’

361. fred - November 19, 2008

#211: “Or maybe he doesn’t wind up in permanent command at the end. Maybe Pike survives and Kirk goes back to fill in the rest of those blanks in his backstory, serve aboard the Farragut, be given the Republic as his first real command, etc. before succeeding Pike as captain of the Enterprise a few years down the road, just in time for Star Trek XII.”

A plausible and acceptable (not to mention logical) solution. Let’s keep our fingers crossed that it actually plays out that way!!!

http://www.MyStarTrekScrapbook.blogspot.com

362. Blowback - November 19, 2008

IMHO one of the goals of this movie is to modernize the “look” of the technology in a “logical” way. Much like TMP gave us a reason to accept the updated Enterprise as the same starship from TOS.

I think we are seeing a diverging timeline that Elder Spock will eventually repair but his solution will not be perfect. Hence we will find history “mostly” corrected and the technology will be similar but perhaps a bit farther ahead in sophistication. ENT set the precedent that not all timelines are at the same moment in time and maybe JJ & Company are taking that to heart…..

Ugh, talking about time travel and alternate realities makes my head hurt….. Can we put these plot devices on the shelf for a few years after this movie? Please????

If I am correct then I applaud this effort. It’s an interesting way to update TOS characters/technology without throwing it all out the window. Plus it will be one of the few times where cataclysmic events were not entirely undone by the end of the episode. It drives me wild when a show alters events but comes up with an 11th hour solution the coincidentally sets eveything back to exactly the way it was at the beginning…

Here’s hoping….

363. Robert Gillis - November 19, 2008

#59 — I think you are exactly right — especially the way JTK says his name so clearly.

364. sean - November 19, 2008

#356

But why? Just because you say it should?

365. Dyson Sphere - November 19, 2008

They build them in Iowa and haul them on a double-wide trailer on the super-interstate to CALIF where ta bottle of very, very, very, very old scotch………….whisky is broken on the bow.

366. JWW - November 19, 2008

#354

piper and mitchell must of course be in this picture, not even jj could disregard trek history that blatantly…

could he?

#355

the dedication plaque on the 1701′s bridge clearly says san francisco, california.

san fran has many shipyards, suitable for bulding a 1000′ long connie.

no on is building a ship in a residential neighborhood….

367. thorsten - November 19, 2008

[365] right, by an old vulcan lady…

;))

368. Blowback - November 19, 2008

347. YARN – November 19, 2008

Thanks for the clarification… I thought there was a hint of sarcastic agreement but I wasn’t totally certain…. However I am in full agreement with your observations…

369. Neil - November 19, 2008

Before everyone forgets…

The TOS-era Enterprise is smaller than the average Par 4 hole on almost any golf course. It’s 947 feet long. It doesn’t require a vast expanse of land the size of the Mojave desert to build.

370. Closettrekker - November 19, 2008

#360—More importantly, they had not spoken as father and son for 18 years in ‘that’ timeline, which obviously did not include the attack upon the USS Kelvin and (later) upon Vulcan by Romulans from the future.

While the original continuity, or ‘canon’, is vital to the overall story in that it has to happen before Nero travels back in time, it is quite possible that it may be completely irrelevant to certain things which occur during this story, whether the original timeline is eventually restored or not.

371. JL - November 19, 2008

365 hahahaw!!

372. JWW - November 19, 2008

#364

because thats what a constitution class vessel looks like.

373. Joseph - November 19, 2008

did anyone see the ship coming out of the space station orbiting earth just before the enterprise goes to warp? it’s in the lower left part of the screen coming out of the main, sphere-like structure…looks like a saucer section with two nacelles attached coming out of it…i know i’ve seen a ship similar to that on a website, a TOS version but I can’t find it anywhere…

374. trfnotos - November 19, 2008

In the scene where young Kirk is being chase in a car, in the distance you can see the Starfleet Shipyards.

375. P Technobabble - November 19, 2008

I still maintain there isn’t anything I’ve seen so far that is not immediately recognizable as Star Trek (where it matters). It certainly does not look like TOS, but I still see the characters, the ship, the bridge, etc. I’ve got no problem with it because of all the things in Star Trek that are superficial, it’s the appearance which bothers me least. What I care about in Star Trek is the story, the characters, the depth of it, not the color of the freakin doors.
I’m really hoping for, and looking forward to, the day Leonard Nimoy begins to speak about the film and how he feels about it.

376. Blowback - November 19, 2008

373. Joseph

“did anyone see the ship coming out of the space station orbiting earth just before the enterprise goes to warp? ”

Must be USS Excelsior still chasing the Enterprise…. :)

377. thorsten - November 19, 2008

[376] ;))))

378. sean - November 19, 2008

#372

That’s what it looked like in TOS, but just as no one back in ’79 was going to stick it up on the big screen, no one is going to do it now. The new design is a nice compromise.

379. JWW - November 19, 2008

#378

thats how much attention the casual trek viewer pays attention to detail

it does not look like the TOS ship, it however, does possess the constitution’s proportions and major geometry.

i suppose you think the 1701A refit looks like the TOS ship, too?

only the casual viewer who has no real attachment to star trek would prefer this

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/schematics/constitution-reimagined.jpg

over this:

http://vektorvisual.com/projects/TrekXIEnt/gallery/OrthoSide.jpg

or worse, not care what the 1701 looks like.

380. Blowback - November 19, 2008

#378 – I agree with you but that updated Enterprise JWW links to is still pretty slick. So I’m thinking the movie gives other reasons for the advanced look of this E

381. Mr. AtoZ - November 19, 2008

The more I watch the trailer the better I like it.

382. BaronByng - November 19, 2008

302 – I *wondered* what the new bridge reminded me of, and when I passed by the very bright, white cosmetics section at my local Pharmaprix, I knew what it was! ;)

But in reality, I think JJ likes bright white sets for the Good Guys. When Alias moved its setting from SD-6 (secretly evil) to the real CIA, the offices became very clean, modern and very brightly-whitely lit. Plus, having this kind of bright lighting from all sides of the scene allows you to have a virtually shadow-free stage for shooting. (as has been mentioned, the 1701-A at the end of TVH was equally brightly lit).

Which brings me to my next point: the sign that says ‘Authorized Personnel Only’ is an inside hat-tip to Alias.

One thing that is consistent with military ranking, to settle the idea of Kirk just being a ‘cadet’ when taking over the Enterprise, is that graduates from the Academy would have different officer ranks. Kirk might be a Lieutenant in all but formal paperwork due to his rebellious antics; Saavik was certainly a Lieutenant upon graduating from the Academy, others might graduate as simple Ensigns or Lt. junior grade. We also know there are plenty of enlisted personnel (crewmen, petty officers etc.)

383. Rachel S. - November 19, 2008

I said what I wanted to say about the new film in two long posts on Flickr, seen for this picture of the…ship *shudder*, so here’s the link:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/captainredstorm/3024704908/

I’d welcome any responses here, since Derek closed the photo to future comments.

Rachel :)

384. Marc Henson - November 19, 2008

Wow! This trailer is fantastic. I haven’t posted in quite some time. Mostly because I am a little tired of reading so many complaints that have no concrete foundation. Why are people complaining about Enterprise being built in Iowa? What makes you think that it was? You haven’t seen the whole movie yet. It seems very possible that Kirk was riding his bike in California. You can’t assume it’s Iowa. That makes no sense.

As for other points:

1. Kirk met Pike before he was supposed to according to “The Menagerie”

We can only assume that this is an alternate timeline so why does that even matter? Besides, we can’t know just by what little we saw of him in the trailer.

2. Humans and Romulans face to face before “Balance of Terror”

Once again, these are Romulans from the future. The whole alternate timeline thing comes into play and so therefore it doesn’t matter. The Romulans traveled back to a time BEFORE “Balance of Terror.”

3. Kirk having a hard time driving a stick in “Piece of the Action”

Can’t really explain that one. Unless the alternate timeline has something to do with that which I don’t see how. But you never know. But even still, it’s just a little detail. Truthfully that was one of the first things I had thought of when I watched the trailer. But still. You know what? When I first watched the trailer I thought that scene was on Tarsus IV during the martial law that was declared when Governor Kodos had began executing much of the population. I figured maybe Kirk was fleeing from one of Kodos’s soldiers or something. But now I see that that was in Iowa. Anyway, be cool okay? The movies still six months away.

385. HSIV - November 19, 2008

211 and 284: its simple…in the post-nemesis novels, ezri dax was promoted from lieutenant to captain instantly…so was picard with the stargazer…but i bet ya in this case, pike pulled a few strings, called in a few favors, maybe even blackmailed a few people, to get kirk assigned A FIELD COMMISSION of captain…maybe even the hinted-at admiral/president archer pulled a few strings…maybe starfleet ended up feeling that the immense responsibility of commanding a starship would be just the thing to discipline kirk..idk…im just theorizing here…

386. Neil - November 19, 2008

Okay, now YOU guys have got me going frame by frame through the trailer. Just noticed that in the first shot of the Vette (roof up), as it’s making its turn, there is no RoboCop visible anywhere behind him. Yet when we see the car with the roof down, the cop is right on his tail.

So these two sequences, while connected in the trailer, are not connected in the film, IMNSHO.

387. Al - November 19, 2008

FLASH

Starfleet Academy now in Des Moines

388. Marshall McMellon - November 19, 2008

Hey, perhaps Cadet Kirks unlikely rise to power in the course of the film is actually a part of his hacked Kobeyashi Maru simulation?

389. Marshall McMellon - November 19, 2008

…and he thew in a tryst with an Orion gal just for funsies.

390. JL - November 19, 2008

386

This sequence *IS* in the film (as Mr. Orci confirmed) but it appears to be edited down in the trailer. I’m sure it was edited for time — who wants to watch an entire chase scene in a movie trailer?

391. Nelson - November 19, 2008

Thanks thorsten, I didn’t know that about Lucas being inspired by the cranes at the shipyards.

392. sean - November 19, 2008

#379

I’m far from a casual fan, and I did know the design you presented was modified. The problem is it wasn’t modified ENOUGH. Not for a feature film. It is the same problem Rodenberry & Co. dealt with for Phase II/TMP. The TOS design just didn’t hold up when transitioning to a new era of special effects and going from 4:3 to 16:9. They needed something familiar yet updated. And yes, most casual viewers would accept that the general design principles were the same. They came up with the canon explanation of a ‘refit’. but the reality was they needed something new.

And I think it’s rather arrogant for you to decide who is a ‘serious’ fan and who is a ‘casual’ fan. It’s not our place to judge other fans because they don’t prioritize the same way we do. I didn’t call you a false fan because you don’t accept the new design, did I? I simply explained why they didn’t use the old design or even a slightly modified version of the old design. You don’t have to agree with that line of reasoning, but it is what they went by (and what the design crew for TMP went by).

I grew up on TOS and can quote episodes backwards and forwards. I owned every manual, compendium and encyclopedia/chronology that was ever printed. I very much care about what the Enterprise looks like. It’s just that I happen to think the new Enterprise is a proper compromise between TOS & the film era.

393. John from Cincinnati - November 19, 2008

Maybe the DVD of this movie will have alternate endings, one where the timeline remains corrupted and one where it is restored.

Hey guys, people can have differences of opinions, that’s what makes America great. I’m not a nazi, I’m an American. We don’t all have to goosestep to the beat of all liking everything we see like Lemmings or else being called out for “trolling” and chastised at every turn.

I sure hope the fans that go see this new movie are more open-minded than some of the people running this site. >DB.

394. thorsten - November 19, 2008

[391] My pleasure, Nelson. I learned this this summer while sitting in the sun below the Oakland Bay Bridge ;))

Sorry for spoilering you earlier on.

395. Jörg - November 19, 2008

#84: The Federation flag of this era is the blue flag with the white logo, created by Mike Okuda. It was also seen on the Defiant in “In a mirror, darkly”. Here’s an article about all variations and appearances of the logo:

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/federation_emblem.htm

396. Julio - November 19, 2008

#382

I think the bridge looks like what it looks like because iProducts are so trendy nowadays. And that looks like the iBridge. Form over function.

That said, it does look pretty slick. I’ve got no problems with it – it’ll probably look great in the film.

397. Neil - November 19, 2008

#390 -
Not to mention editing out of the “chase scene” the part where BoyKirk stops to fiddle with the roof?

Car enthusiasts, correct me if I’m wrong but in 1964, Corvette softtops still had to be lowered manually, no?

398. mari - November 19, 2008

Exciting trailer! I can’t wait for the movie to come out!

399. Closettrekker - November 19, 2008

#379—-No one who posts here as frequently as Sean is a “casual Trek viewer”.

The bottom line is, it is an imaginary ship. It does not actually exist. It is therefore subject to various creative interpretations on what such a vessel might look like in the 23rd Century. This is very much a legitimate one.

You can prefer the original design. That’s fine. I do too, since it is what I am accustomed to, but just as the refit design from TMP grew on me, this one may as well. It looks enough like the original Enterprise for me to use my imagination and tell myself that it is the Enterprise (the vehicle which takes my favorite characters from A to B).

This is not for me, nor is it for you. It is for my kids and their peers to determine whether this is something they believe might be a ship carrying over 400 Starfleet personnel in the 23rd Century.

If they were making a “fanboy” film, they may have taken the same approach taken in ENT’s “In A Mirror, Darkly”, and just went retro.

They are not…and they did not.

Let’s see it in action in May.

400. thorsten - November 19, 2008

[397] Neil, I guess it will fly off…

;))

401. Spaceboy - November 19, 2008

On canon issues…

Enterprise built on Earth (Iowa or SanFran) instead of space: It’s like saying it’s better to build a seagoing ship miles out at sea rather than in a drydock. Besides, if the ship can handle faster-than-light travel and copious phaser hits without blowing up, I’m betting it’s not too much trouble to get into space from Iowa.

It’s all taking place in an alternate timeline: Please. That’s the SciFi equivalent of “it was all just a dream”. Works great in high school creative writing class, not so much for a $150 million tentpole franchise reboot.

Kirk and Pike meet earlier, Kirk drives a stick, etc: We gotta buy into the idea that, to write an emotionally compelling and intelligent film, they had to *not* constrain themselves with every detail of all that’s come before (much of which contradicts itself, BTW).

402. Randall - November 19, 2008

You know, some of what’s “canon” isn’t so vital… I think the point is that JJ was reaching for a wider audience, so he had to crank up the dramatic hitpoints in the story—so Kirk becomes a bad boy, the Enterprise is built on the plains when Kirk is already an adult, etc. I don’t see WHY they had to do ALL of this this way–some if it is looking like simple dramatic license that easily could have been played another way—but these guys are the hot-shot Hollywood types, and we’re just fans and such. So we have to place faith in their judgement and hope that this film simply revitalizes Star Trek. At any rate, it brings us back to what I think is the core and by far the best part of Trek—the original series and original characters. Going back to that, and those characters, is what *I* would have done, so they already have me on board for the most part.

It’s a little bothersome, yes, that we obviously aren’t getting Kirk’s established career… a Kirk in command of the Enterprise at 34 makes perfect sense, but a Kirk in command at 22 or 25 or whatever the hell he’s supposed to be is way stretching it. And a Kirk who is the same age as Sulu and Uhura makes no sense either, but what can you do? (Equally odd, and kind of distressing, is the apparent loss of Spock’s eleven years of service under Pike… it gave him an additional piece of backstory. Also a loss is the obvious absence of Gary Mitchell, but I suppose if you introduce a character like that, you then have the question of what to do with him—because we KNOW what happens to him later).

All this is what it is. In the end it probably won’t do anything dramatically to the story (except possibly make it more engaging to a wider audience).

What concerns me more is *character.* And the hesitation I feel here is for the character of Kirk.

It seems from what we’ve heard and seen thus far, they have Spock’s character well in hand. And one would think that having Nimoy’s participation helped. But while Nimoy has always been a spokesman for Spock–displaying a deep appreciation and understanding for the character he helped create and made his own–neither Shatner nor Roddenberry nor anyone else has ever stood up as the spokesman for Kirk. Certainly not Shatner, who has little to say about Kirk–at least not in anything like the context that Nimoy speaks of or views Spock. Roddenberry laid down the essence of Kirk, as a Hornblower-type figure… but later he had little to say.

But the trouble is that Star Trek is largely Kirk’s story. Yes, it’s Spock’s as well, certainly… and perhaps just as much. But Kirk is hero figure here, the ever-resourceful, mythic leader with great strengths and skills but only the vaguest of weaknesses. But he was human, because even as “the great captain” he had that sense of loneliness and pain about him—it was simply in the background. But at the same time, it was obvious that Kirk had mastered this, and had been a driven, determined figure most or perhaps all of his life. He had a deep sense of morality, also. A true sense of right and wrong that never wavered. Admirable and moving, really, which is why he’s such a great fictional hero figure to many people—it isn’t only because Kirk always wins the fight and always gets the girl.

So my concern is… what have they done to serve Kirk in this film? What I fear is that, like misunderstanding nerdy types, (I’m not saying that’s what they are, but there’s no reason to think they’re something else, either–nor do I mean it as an insult–a lot of us creative types are nerdy) they’ve failed to see or grasp what made Kirk who he was. Instead, thinking that Kirk is the hero guy who always gets laid, they (Abrams, Orci, et al) figured, “well he must have been a rebellious bad boy when he was young”…. and left it at that. Never realizing that a serious, driven guy could also be a very dramatic figure AND still be the guy who gets the chicks. In fact—that’s more often the case in real life.

The thing I worry about is that Kirk, who is the central figure of Star Trek–but is still less “dimensional” a character than Spock–will be rendered even flatter and less “dimensional” by the way his character is portrayed in the film. Okay, so Kirk is a “bad boy” who finally gets his act together… and goes immediately from cadet to commanding a starship. But where’s the depth to a character like that? I’m not saying there isn’t any—but it concerns me that, while they’re going back to Kirk’s childhood, it doesn’t seem like they’re really ADDING to Kirk, but instead almost *subtracting* from him. Making him even less dimensional. More comic-book-like. Because a comic book character can lose his dad and become a rebel, and yet think he’s meant for more—and then, what? He suddenly, almost immediately it seems, turns himself around to become what he’s always been destined to be? How? Why? Kirk’s character needed these questions asked, and it would have been great. But I can’t see where the questions were answered from what we’ve been told about this film. It sounds like we’re being given an even MORE mythic Kirk, which is the wrong answer.

The rest of it is just frosting. The Enterprise built here or there, this happening then or later or never… that’s secondary stuff. But Kirk’s character is vital here. HOW Chris Pine plays him matters too, but even if he plays him well, it doesn’t matter if the character is emptier than he was before. Kirk hitting on Uhura in a bar? Come on. That’s comic book crap. Kirk getting his ass kicked in the same bar, only to be awakened by a single speech from Pike? Come on. More comic book crap. That’s all well and good if you’re making a comic book movie about comic book characters. But Kirk shouldn’t be quite that. He IS a bit more. He’s not a real person either–but he’s got more to him than a flat drawing. He’s in a long line of heroic figures that have SOME kind of depth and meaning to them… you could like a character like that because he has SOME reality to him… he’s not just a superhero.

So I don’t know. I hope the film will be great—it looks like it could be—but it’s not really Star Trek, if Kirk isn’t there AS Kirk, and not just some cliche bad boy. It’d be like Spock cracking jokes and laughing and swearing.

403. Ran - November 19, 2008

Bob Orci,

Can you please say something that will silence the kids around here? I have a headache from all the speculations.

404. HSIV - November 19, 2008

sigh…all this canon talk reminds me of a line of picard’s from nemesis: ‘now we see, but thru a glass, darkly…’ , taken from the Bible…LIGHTEN UP PEOPLE!!!

oh btw…about the theory that kirk never met carol marcus and never fathered david…who says? just as the main characters took a different road here in this film due to timeline alterations, so it could also be assumed that carol marcus’s life played out differently, too…

maybe there’s no yeoman rand on the enterprise this time but maybe theres a yeoman marcus ;)

remember, somehow, someway, david still needs to be born, spock still needs to die saving enterprise from khan and the genesis device so kirk can look for spocks resurrected self and so enterprise can be destroyed at genesis by the klingons so kirk can steal the klingon ship he’ll use to go back in time to bring george and gracie forward to the 23rd century to save earth from that alien probe, which would’ve been sent long before any of the timeline alterations occurred…that is unless this new enterprise has huge enclosed aquatic areas suitable for holding 2 humpback whales and unless in the new timeline, section 31 loans enterprise a certain stolen romulan cloaking device??? LOL

405. Neil - November 19, 2008

#400 -
LOL – so never mind the clutch, he can’t even work the freakin’ roof?!?!?!

406. Closettrekker - November 19, 2008

#397—-”Car enthusiasts, correct me if I’m wrong but in 1964, Corvette softtops still had to be lowered manually, no?”

Perhaps, but does this particular 1964 Corvette have all original parts (unlikely, since they probably wouldn’t be burning fossil fuels anyway), as opposed to being modified or “improved” with regard to some of its features?

Furthermore, the scenes pieced together in the trailer may not include a shot where the young Kirk manually puts the top down.

Then again, it may just be one of many ‘goofs’ that happen in movies all the time….Star Trek or otherwise.

407. thorsten - November 19, 2008

[403] He actually did that already, Ran… in another thread some days ago.

408. HSIV - November 19, 2008

BTW… WTF? SPOCK’STIMESHIP LOOKS LIKE THE GID-AWFUL JUPITER 2 FROM THE LOST IN SPACE MOVIE!!!

409. Neil - November 19, 2008

Continuing frame-by-frame, noticed that when BoyKirk first jumps out of the Vette, his left arm is extended, but the next frame, from another angle, shows both arms at his side.

ACK! NOW you’ve got ME doing it!!!

What ARE you guys, the Borg?

410. jeffreyNdallas - November 19, 2008

The reason that it seems more like San Fran to be built at is that the academy is there and they did film a scene that showed all the cadets looking to the sky (Big blue screen) if you remember the spy photos. It just seems that the cadets would be looking up at Enterprise launching. In addition, why would Uhura be at a bar in Iowa? Unless of course that is where the Big E is and she is getting ready to board.

411. hitch1969© loves Star Trek Phase II. - November 19, 2008

“…women of the 23rd century are good for nothing more than being ogled, screwing and giving birth.” – Ned, #293

Ned said it, not moi. ;)

that was pretty kewl. uh huh uh huh uh huh.

THE WOMEN!!

=h=

412. Commodore Lurker - November 19, 2008

Anthony, excellent report, but I still don’t feel like I’m watching Star Trek.

413. jww - November 19, 2008

aha!

i found the inspiration for the new 1701:

http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/uss-enterprise-nx-1701-a.php

see anything familiar?

414. jeffreyNdallas - November 19, 2008

#408

Maybe another homage to the time frame of the original….just like the 65 vette…lol

415. Nelson - November 19, 2008

Hey Thorsten- no problem, I read a post full of spoilers on my own. I normally would have avoided this article! But the question of where the Enterprise was built really stood out to me and I wasn’t too crazy to learn it’s in Iowa. No offense to Iowa!

416. Juli - November 19, 2008

I love the trailer, except for the apparent fundamental change in Kirk’s personality it seems to be hinting at. Since when was Kirk a brooding slacker who couldn’t get a date? Kirk was never the type to hide under a girl’s bed or harrass her at a bar, it just seems so out of character for him… I could see why Spock would take a dislike to this guy, he sounds like an a**hole. I just hope he shapes up by the end of the movie;

417. Juli - November 19, 2008

+ I have a feeling Simon Pegg is going to be and AMAZING Scotty
(the way he’s going to be incorporated into the crew sounds like a really fun idea) and Karl Urban a similarly wonderful McCoy.

418. JL - November 19, 2008

293

“I’m fine with the miniskirts, fine with tossing out canon. But if you’re gonna throw out canon, why not give the women something better to do this time around?”

And how do you know they are not?

People are jumping the gun like crazy on this film! What happened to common sense? Other than what has been released, WE DON’T KNOW ALL THE FACTS YET SO IT IS ALL SPECULATION, PEOPLE!!

419. Robert Gillis - November 19, 2008

Thoughts…

With great love for TOS and Canon, the Balance of Terror quotes that no one ever saw what a Romulan looked like has tremendously LIMITED future stories — look at the way Enterprise had to dance around it, and even the ENT novels do the same thing. Again, with great respect for TOS and Canon, I think we MUST ignore the “never seen a Romulan” thing. That the Federation could fight a (FOUR?) year war with the Romulans and NEVER see one seems so implausible, especially with what we saw in Archer’s time. Discuss?

What if that’s not the Enterprise in the dessert — what if it’s the USS Constitution NCC-1700? Can we see the 1701 designation in any of those images?

#73 — I wonder who else besides me got your “heart and Soul” reference (T’Pau) Nice work.

What about Kirk’s time on the Farragut? Spock’s 11 years with Pike?

Wonder if any of Kirk’s scenes on the bridge are part of his Kobayashi Maru test?

“Zefram Cochrane of Alpha Centauri?” — “First Contact” and ENT NEVER dwelled on this and we were all happy. Sometimes Canon needs to be bent a little.

Does anyone know if Majel Barret will be the voice of the computer?

#198: “Furthermore, the attack on Vulcan also does not happen in the original timeline. Pike’s fate may very well be different because of that.” — We do not know that.

#360 Tony – -you’re right; excellent point.

Great thoughts everyone. Thank you Anthony for taking the time to do this :)

420. Ron Mosher - November 19, 2008

Really wanted to thank the staff for breaking this down. A perfect example as to why you are my main source of Trek info. I am chomping at the bit to see Leonard Nimoy as Spock!

421. BK613 - November 19, 2008

314
I agree with you it is a 1 and the arrowhead symbol not IA for Iowa

373
nice catch on the other ship

401
THIS is why you don’t build ships in space lol

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/science/space/19brfs-TOOLBAGISLOS_BRF.html?ref=space

422. Dan - November 19, 2008

Wow so much of the plot is given out here thanks! :(

423. No Use For A Name - November 19, 2008

FROM THE BEGINNING, I’VE BEEN ON-BOARD WITH THIS WHOLE THING. I’M AN ABRAMS FAN, SO I NEVER DOUBTED HIS ABILITIES.
I’M ALSO NOT A CANON NUT, SO THE IDEA OF CHANGES DIDN’T BOTHER ME.
I LIKED THE CASTING AND I LIKE THE NEW ENTERPRISE.

HOWEVER, I HAVE QUESTIONED THE PLOT FROM THE BEGINNING. TIME TRAVEL AGAIN WAS NOT IMPRESSING ME. AND IT SOUNDED A LITTLE TOO TERMINATOR-ESQUE. IT SEEMED BAD ENOUGH THAT I DOUBTED THAT IT WAS REAL. UNFORTUNATELY, IT’S SEEMING MORE AND MORE REAL THE MORE INFORMATION COMES OUT.

I AM STILL ON-BOARD, AND WILL DEFINITELY SEE THE MOVIE, BUT SO FAR, THERE IS A LOT OF DISAPPOINTMENT IN THIS FOR ME. I’M NOT SAYING IT ISN’T GREAT IN A LOT OF WAYS AND MAY EVEN DO WHAT THEY WANT IT TO DO FOR THE FRANCHISE, BUT I’M JUST CONCERNED ABOUT MY PERSONAL ENJOYMENT OF IT. HOPEFULLY, THE FINISHED PRODUCT WILL BRING IT ALL TOGETHER FOR ME.

424. Christine - November 19, 2008

” love the trailer, except for the apparent fundamental change in Kirk’s personality it seems to be hinting at. Since when was Kirk a brooding slacker who couldn’t get a date? Kirk was never the type to hide under a girl’s bed or harrass her at a bar, it just seems so out of character for him….. … I just hope he shapes up by the end of the movie.”

#416

Actually, it doesn’t seem too far-fetched. He would only be in.. what, his early twenties, maybe even only 19 in this movie? And it doesn’t seem too improbably for Kirk to have been somewhat of a.. reckless rebel as a teenager and such. We don’t know everything, though, and we won’t… Until May 8th.

THE SUSPENSE IS KILLING ME. xD

And thanks, website admins, for doing the shot-by-shot! (Though I had speculated about… 60 – 70% of those. ;3)

425. Greg Stamper - November 19, 2008

Sorry if this question is buried somewhere above -
“Is Chris Pine Left-handed?”

Watch as Kirk fires the weapon.
or perhaps the sequence is flipped:
http://img.trekmovie.com/images/st09/trailer2analysis/240.jpg

426. Sean4000 - November 19, 2008

I just think that Nero was always meant to be a time-traveling, canon-busting, timeline-destroying bad ass that shows us that we don’t need to have everything the way we remember it in order to have a good movie.

427. Alex Rosenzweig - November 19, 2008

#362 – ‘Ugh, talking about time travel and alternate realities makes my head hurt….. Can we put these plot devices on the shelf for a few years after this movie? Please????”

I concur. I’d really enjoy a straight-up sci-fi adventure film in the Star Trek world.

428. Marshall McMellon - November 19, 2008

Yeah, building stuff in space would kinda suck when you think about it.

429. thorsten - November 19, 2008

[423] i am really sorry that your keyboard is broken…

430. Christine - November 19, 2008

#422: “Wow so much of the plot is given out here thanks! :(”

There WAS a spoiler warning… xD;

431. BaronByng - November 19, 2008

In response to Rachel S. (I did read your long comment at Flickr), and several of the other people who are being bluntly negative about the design of the ship, the trailer, and by extension, the film:

One — to take a wider view, literary properties like the entire works of Shakespeare, Agatha Christie, Ian Fleming, the Brontës, and Jane Austen have been adapted from their original formats for radio, audiobooks, television, and motion pictures. Often times these properties are re-cast, updated, re-thought, in order to produce a new interpretation on an old classic, or to use a timeless story to throw light on current events, or using ahistorical settings (like Ian McKellen’s Richard III, set in a WWII-like Europe) to bring old works to modern audiences. So there is precedent here, except that the work in question is still relatively recent.

(As a side note, people performed Shakespeare very, very differently in the 19th century — we’d laugh at them today)

Two — All series gather a great deal of continuity during their runs, and while some of it becomes core to the story and therefore ‘canon,’ a lot of it becomes cruft that needs to be cleared out with a Crisis On Infinite Earths, or something, in order to be able to tell new stories in new ways. This is not a bad thing.

My point is: a lot of people become attached to the cruft. They mistake the cruft for the actual core of the story. They discuss and debate the minutiae of the cruft like Talmudic scholars, construct elaborate backstories to rationalize it all. For whatever reason, the possession of all these ‘facts’ become some sort of Truth for these people, a context in which they orient themselves…almost a religion.

So let’s look at religion.

Modern biblical study – alongside archaeology and anthropology — allows us to see that a lot of it is ahistorical, sections are written possibly years after given events and thus not trustworthy, there were power struggles (read up on old Paul of Damascus sometime), there’s a lot of oral tradition, allegories and myth, and grudges against some-old-king-of-Babylon of the era, rather than any true history.

Knowing that doesn’t invalidate the Beatitudes, for instance, but there will always be people whose entire understanding of the world pivots on who begat whom way-back-when, who find it hard to believe that Adam and Eve didn’t ride to church on dinosaurs (© tina fey).

And so it goes with Trek. Some people are very attached to the ‘cruft’ around the series that has accumulated over time. I would include in that cruft the specific look of the uniforms, so-called ‘canon’ events, the look of the bridge, and even the Enterprise itself.

I’ve been watching the show and the spinoffs since the 1970s, collected the toy ships, read a few novels. It’s all great fun, but you cannot tell me with a straight face that velour outfits with gold lamé embroidered emblems, beehive hairdos, a ship resembling three cylinders glued to a dinner plate with popsicle sticks, and a dark, cramped cardboard bridge with some posters of stars on the walls as ‘monitors’ will not look slightly dated to modern audiences raised on PlayStation.

So, if we let go of the cruft, then what is the core of Star Trek? We have some characters — a cocky captain, an aloof Vulcan, a passionate doctor, a plucky multi-cultural crew. Going boldly and exploring where no-one’s gone before. Exploring peacefully and maintaining the Prime Directive. Getting into scrapes, dealing with ethical binds, encountering the unfathomable and learning from it.

And that’s basically it. Frankly, JJ could have done a total BSG on Trek and he didn’t…what I see in the trailer and from the descriptions of the story sounds like pure quality storytelling with an epic visual scope. Whether it’s explained away as the effect of timeline incursion or it’s just JJ’s New Vision, I’m down with it.

432. Crewman Darnell - November 19, 2008

402. Randall

Well said. Those are valid concerns about Kirk’s character, as how it could (or hopefully won’t) be diminished in this film.

412. Commodore Lurker

Unfortunately I too haven’t yet discovered the feeling of seeing Star Trek in this. I’m hoping at some point my eyes will adjust to the glare from the iBridge.

433. Sebi - November 19, 2008

My suggestion:

Let’s all watch the movie in May. Then we know the whole story and can make a judgement whether we like it or not.

So don’t pee on something now that you want to eat later.

434. Neil - November 19, 2008

#431

BaronByng…you had me at “In response”…

Brilliant.

435. Sebi - November 19, 2008

Ah and by the way.

That cop is the final cylon…

436. Wolf Trek - November 19, 2008

OK – I haven’t read EVERY entry here, but (to me) it looks as if the construction site of the Enterprise has a bit of a foggy look to it. Fog = San Francisco (to me).

437. Ricci - November 19, 2008

Star Trek Wars, Star Wars Trek. Abrams is using the name to make his new sci fi story sell. Why do people complain? Because They care. Abrams has copied off some one else’s idea to make a movie. He has mixed star trek with star wars thinking he can please the most amount of people. If the car thing is silly, why not make Kirk a girl, Ride a surf board and smoke cigars. Hell paint the Enterprise orange with a 01 on it’s side. I dont know why he lies about the reboot thing it is a total reboot. JJ has said he was not a star trek fan, well James Cawley is a fan. Check out the differance on his phase 2 site. Paramount should have given Cawley the 150 million.

438. Marshall McMellon - November 19, 2008

#435- Phew, that’s a relief. I thought it was The Terminator. :)

439. Sebi - November 19, 2008

“Paramount should have given Cawley the 150 million.”

Right. And nobody but the über geeks will watch it.

(no offense James, you do a great job)

440. Christine - November 19, 2008

#431:

You’re my hero. 8D

And you’re totally right! Maybe Abrams didn’t go EXACTLY by canon, but I don’t think he screwed up any major, major details. He just revamped it for the 21st century. Thanks for keeping an open mind. :3

441. Ryan - November 19, 2008

Well since this movie jumps around the timeline a lot, I see no reason to go from the attack on Vulcan to a few years down the road when Nero tries to attack again when Kirk can be captain without the rank skipping.

442. BaronByng - November 19, 2008

437 – James Cawley is ON BOARD with this movie, literally; he’s got a non-speaking cameo. ;)

443. thomoz - November 19, 2008

My theories based on this trailer:

1) Romulans from the future invading the past put Kirk in a bad way
at home so he enters Starfleet late
2) Federation at war earlier so now industrial design is altered.
Ships built on earth not in space, built in the midwest rather than SF.
Perhaps the ship is christened ENTERPRISE in SF.
3) the ravine caused by the Xindi attack or a Romulans-from-the-future
attack.
4) Kirk on bike is not in Iowa at all.
The premature death of his dad has him raised elsewhere.
5) Maybe future Spock coached Pike to take Kirk-the-stranger
under his wing just like future Spock tells Kirk to fight w/ young Spock.

444. Christine - November 19, 2008

“437 – James Cawley is ON BOARD with this movie, literally; he’s got a non-speaking cameo. ;)”

Seriously? That’s awesome. 8D

“..(FACT CHECK: Apparently there are quarries in Iowa)…”

Well, keep in mind that in the..um… Trek universe, or whatever, there was a huge World War III in the 1990′s. And the landscape could have changed.

And I live right near Iowa, and if the bluffs dried out, they’d look a LOT like quarries.

445. thorsten - November 19, 2008

[431] Good Stuff!

446. Robert Gillis - November 19, 2008

431. BaronByng – November 19, 2008 –

Thank you, thank you, thank you. One of the wisest people on this page today. Seriously, you are exactly right.

447. BaronByng - November 19, 2008

Neil & Christine — thanks. ^_^

448. Holger - November 19, 2008

First of all, many thanks for extracting all those great pictures. The trailer was really too fast, none of the interesting details discernible at all.
I would have preferred a trailer where you get some longer Trek-typical clips, instead of the James Dean Kirk stuff visible in detail and then everything which is related to starships etc. (i.e. the Trek stuff) buzzing past you with warp speed. But this great report compensates for that.

This new so-called warp effect… is this really a warp effect?! That would be bothersome. Whatever changes Nero may effect in the timeline, surely he canna change the laws of (warp-)physics! This isn’t Star Wars hyperspace, this is supposed to be warp drive. Changing the warp effect which is established by all the TV shows and movies so far would be a serious canon issue, in my opinion.

And what about this Nero? Did he get his ears cut off by the Klingons? Maybe in his own time period the Romulan Star Empire has been crushed by the Klingons and that’s really what he wants to change – the UFP would not be his primary target then. Interesting!

Vulcan architecture looks much better than in ENT. In ENT it was much too playful and ornamented for the logical Vulcans, now it’s edgier and that works better. (Please note: I’m saying for the first time that something’s better in the movie than in an established TV show, and ENT at that, which I really love ;-)

449. sean - November 19, 2008

#443

2)Why would they be at war? At war with who? The Romulans are from the future and they likely don’t even know they are Romulans.

3)The Xindi attack was in Florida, not Iowa (or San Francisco).

4)I believe Anthony confirmed it is, in fact, Iowa that Kirk is raised.

450. Rikarus - November 19, 2008

#356

This:

http://vektorvisual.com/projects/TrekXIEnt/gallery/OrthoSide.jpg

Looks insanely cool, is it your work?

451. Closettrekker - November 19, 2008

#419—-” ‘Furthermore, the attack on Vulcan also does not happen in the original timeline. Pike’s fate may very well be different because of that.’

“— We do not know that.”

…Hence the phrase “may very well be” which prefaced that bit of speculation. And just to be clear, the only doubt remaining in my mind regarding that is the notion that the timeline we know may eventually be restored.

Even the Enterprise voyage to Talos IV (or the “fight on Rigel VII” that preceded it) under Pike’s command would be in question, as would his overexposure to “delta rays” that results in the man being unfortunately relegated to that chair and the “one beep, two beeps” system.

To expect Pike’s fate (just like anyone else’s) to be unaffected by a catalyst event (or series of events) every bit as significant to the UFP as the 9/11 attacks have been to the United States would be ridiculous, IMO. The ripple effects of such an event would be immeasurable.

452. sean - November 19, 2008

Does anyone else think Nero’s ship looks rather V’ger-esque?

453. jr - November 19, 2008

For those of you who say CANON is not important, why not call the ship the USS SUPRISE? After all, it’s just a name/

454. thorsten - November 19, 2008

[451] If Nero destroys lots of Klingon Ships, the Federation should live in a period of relative peace in Kirks youth…

455. Rikarus - November 19, 2008

I did just notice that in this pic:

http://img.trekmovie.com/images/st09/trailer2analysis/181.jpg

Kirk is sporting ToS Captains stripes on his sleeve, not Commander, Not LT Commander, Not LT…..

Captain.

Man I wanna serve in that military….

Blaamo! From academy to captain!

456. sean - November 19, 2008

#399

Closettrekker, as usual you’re far more eloquent than I! Thank you.

457. Kirokwannabe - November 19, 2008

#425 – I think it’s been flipped. He has a slight part in his hair usually on his left side, but shown on thr right in that scene.

Also, it looks like his under eye injury is now under his right eye, whereas it should be under his left.

458. ByGeorge - November 19, 2008

#402

I agree with your reservations about Kirk and how he seem to have been portrayed here. I was concerned that Trek has been taking some missteps for years and my concerns are growing.

Seems to be a characterization of Kirk in particular as a impulsive, womanizing, bad ass, superhuman hero — that I don’t agree with and hope we do not see.

I was never a big Kirk fan but what I did like about all the characters was their dedication to duty, their integrity, their beliefs in what they were doing, and their willingness to sacrifice even their lives for each other and their mission, which they whole heartedly respected.

Many examples of this appeared in TOS:

Mirror,Mirror shows Kirk willing to sacrifice his life to an alternate universe to save others.

In COTEOF he sacrifices his soul mate and chance for happiness to save others.

In Amok Time he sacrifices his career to save a friend.

In Balance of Terror he willingly sacrifices himself and the ship to insure safety of the Federation.

He took risks and showed bravery to save others, not because he is a wild and crazy bad ass.

Nor was he ever intended to be superhuman. He is supposed to be vulnerable and needs his crew as much as they all need each other. Trek evolved to become a series about 3 main characters dependent upon each other with a few highly skilled and interesting supporting characters. The relationships particularly between the Big 3 characters is what distinguished Trek from all the other action hero series like Bond or Batman.

I don’t know that the character of Kirk was supposed to be such a womanizer either. If he kissed so many women it was because the script writers were trying to spice up their episodes for ratings, and they grabbed a quick, easy methods for doing so — add a girl. IMO Kirk was a lot more of a romanticist than just horny. He was dedicated to duty and his ship.

I am worried that the dedicated, idealistic, integrity filled, man of deep character has been replaced by this newer bad ass, rebellious, womanizing, selfish, super human because some of the fans want Trek to become a Kirk hero worship series akin to “24″.

I wanted my kids to see Trek because it used to inspire sacrifice, discipline, dedication, idealism, putting others before yourself, fighting for worthy causes, deep caring friendships, romanitcism, free thinking and imagination. I don’t want Kirk as another James Bond – hero of the galaxy.

459. Scott - November 19, 2008

A friend of mine who was also a “Trekker”, long before most of the common day people were even in diapers thought that this was it for Trek.

I had to wonder if too much of what had come before had been warped and morphed into something that was just too different from Gene Roddenberry’s original vision to really carry on with the spirit of what he truly intended. Then I tried to spend time remembering about Star Wars and how even the most “hard-core” of fans, rebelled to a great degree when the whole Phantom Menace wave passed across their minds and how that still lives today.

I’ll just say this, with these present new scenes of the new and improved Star Trek, there will undoubtedly be those who are in the so called, old-timer hard-core fan base, who would love to quote Scotty and tell these revisionists “up their shaft” and to stop messing with our time valued Star Trek. It was here long before any Star Wars or their new ideas.

No matter what the form this film takes, I’d hate for it to become a driving wedge between fans new and old, that was always the staying power behind the love of Star Trek and the positive vision it has always carried. I’ll wait and see the final and finished product next May before I personally withdraw from the new Star Trek camp, staying with the TOS DVD’s and the original cast films.

If this fails, it won’t be because the new thinkers weren’t warned before hand and through this process. Its quite obvious that few if anyone involved truly cares what we think anyhow.

I’m done with this site and the bashing we classic fans have taken here.

460. Holger - November 19, 2008

The warp effect is OK as a warp-in or warp-out effect, but please not at-warp.

461. eagle219406 - November 19, 2008

#444 THe Eugenics wars happened in the 1990s. World War III happened much later.

Does anybody else think it’s possible that Kirk looking at the ENT could be a dream? Also, I don’t think there is anything in the trailer that suggest that they even know that it is Romulans that they are fighting. They could just think that they are Rogue Vulcans. I could be wrong. The effects and designs though are so far off from the original that it is not even funny. I get why they couldn’t make them exactly the same but they could have made them closer than they did. I mean the change of appearance between TOS and TMP was explained by them saying that it had been refitted. How can they explain this? Don’t get me wrong, this looks like a movie that I would enjoy seeing, but I’m still not sure that I would include it in the actual Star Trek Canon.

462. Catie - November 19, 2008

This article is great! I missed so much in the trailer.
:-)

463. hitch1969© loves Star Trek Phase II. - November 19, 2008

re – image 221, “Kirk and Orion Cadet (Rachel Nichols)”

and holy ding dong, look at the macintosh computer in Kirk’s iPantalones!!

it’s a hard argument to lose, innit govnah?? that dude has a terraquad HD!!

“hold very still. I am about to drill to your inner core and insert some red matter to create a quantum singularity. It’s going to rock your world. Literally.”

THE WOMEN!!

=h=

464. Holger - November 19, 2008

455: When Riker was acting captain in The Best Of Both Worlds, he got his fourth pip. And in TMP, when Admiral Kirk took command he was wearing captain’s rank braid from then on, also Cpt. Decker was temporarily reduced to commander (as XO) and had to wear commander’s braids.
This seems to be something Starfleet specific, I don’t think that this is done in real military organizations (I’ve never been in uniform myself, though.)

465. greeneya - November 19, 2008

stupid

466. Ned - November 19, 2008

418

Yes, of course, we all know it’s speculation. We’re all wondering “how will I feel IF.”

I believe I started my post with “If this trailer actually represents the film…” and ended with “Maybe it’s not representative…” That should have given you some clue that I knew I was speculating.

467. Rainbucket - November 19, 2008

This might be too late for staff notice, but…

The significance of Vasquez Rocks in that shot isn’t that they were used for Arena, but that they were used for establishing shots on Vulcan in The Voyage Home.

468. Gibnerd - November 19, 2008

i’d just like to mention that i’m totally psyched by the fact that the Rura Penthe prison is in the movie.
a little star trek VI goes a long way.

469. Ian B - November 19, 2008

431-

I think you’re being a little harsh, and I speak as one who has posted a few comments against the “canonista” view. I think it’s truer to say that all the different people here, and in Trek fandom have different degrees of tolerance to what counts as Star Trek, and focus on different aspects as “essential”. Some people are “canon conservatives” and some are “canon liberals” (and please don’t anyone take offence, I don’t mean those terms in any way politically or as in any way perjorative).

For instance, most fans, even the “liberals” would be horrified if the new Enterprise looked nothing like the old. I’m pleased that the costumes are very similar to the originals, but disappinted that the womens’ in particular are quite different also. And yet as soon as they started making movies (under Roddenberry, remember) the TOS uniforms were immediately done away with. So I can hardly say it’s “not Trek” if they all appear in pastel pyjamas, can I?

What makes it Trek is different to different people. What parts of the story framework are “cruft” and which are “essential canon” vary from person to person, and there is no objective way to define which is which. The new production team are walking a tightrope trying to keep as many people on board as possible while freeing themselves up to exercise creative license, and I don’t envy them that at all.

To give another example, consider the remastered TOS. I thought it was a fabulous project (though often somewhat underwhelming in execution- I thought they should have gone much further) but I had some lengthy arguments with other Trekkies on the usenet Trek newsgroups about whether it was sacrilege or not; for instance i was thrilled by the better effets in The Doomsday Machine but others were utterly dismissive that the Enterprise “doesn’t move that way”, claiming an objective view of what a starship should move like- which seemed to be that starships are big and should maneuver slowly like aircraft carriers. My view was opposite. I felt the scripts of TOS frequently described fast maneuvers that could not be done with the effects of the day and what was do-able then should not restrict what can be done now.

But to each their own. Really, we’re all canonistas- just some of us are more canon liberal than others, and our view of what is core canon differs from individual to individual.

470. AJ - November 19, 2008

We have heard a few things which are still strange:

The Enterprise appears as a warship in an alternate timeline

The film begins with some scene which will drive canonistas bonkers

Pike meets a “tragic” fate

Still some mysteries…

471. skeeterman1961 - November 19, 2008

I have read about 1/2 of alll of these posts and unless it comes up in one I have not read yet – let me pose a question. Why in the world would “we” build a vessel of the magnitude of a starship on the ground? Voyager was (perhaps) the only starship designed to land on a planets surface, the Enterprise and other star class vessels was not.

Also consider the problem of a ship that big trying to pull free of the earth’s gravity – the amount of energy it would take to lift a ship off the surface would rip it apart. Perhaps they are constructing moduals in pieces and wiring/pluming them and all of that on earth then fly them up into the (real) orbiting construction yard where they are all put together.

I just really can not grasp the idea of constructing a star class vessel on lnd! Makes no logical since.

472. Holger - November 19, 2008

419: “What if that’s not the Enterprise in the dessert — what if it’s the USS Constitution NCC-1700? Can we see the 1701 designation in any of those images?”

Could be. By the way, the NCC-1700 designation for the USS Constitution is fanon, it comes from Franz Joseph’s unofficial Technical Manual. No canon evidence for it. I’d prefer the Constitution to be around NCC-1000 because that would easily explain the Constellation NCC-1017.

473. Gibnerd - November 19, 2008

i think the opening but that will drive the canonistas bonkers is Nero’s Romulan ship attacking the Kelvin. Probably in there will be a visual with the Romulan wiping Balance of Terror and all after that out canon-wise.
Alternate time lines? Canon breakers? whatever. just gimme a good fun movie that is Trek.

474. sean - November 19, 2008

#467

Vasquez Rocks has appeared throughout Star Trek as a stand-in for various alien planets. I believe their first appearance in Trek was in ‘Arena’, and that’s why Anthony mentioned it above (in fact, there’s a spot there literally called ‘Gorn Rock’).

475. BaronByng - November 19, 2008

Thanks Thorsten and Robert Gillis, too :D

459 Scott,

I don’t think anyone is really “bashing” classic Trek or fans of the classic series. After all, if we didn’t like them, we wouldn’t be here discussing them.

To further some thoughts from my post at 431, what you said about “Gene Roddenberry’s original vision” and then calling others “revisionists” reminds me of people who talk about the Founding Fathers of the United States and the framers of the Constitution.

Rather than see them realistically — as a bunch of wealthy, white, slave-owning landowners and merchants who chafed at paying taxes to Britain and therefore bankrolled their own little revolution — some today ignore the messy reality and view them as godlike beings who could do no wrong.

In this quasi-religious view, the Framers were superhumanly capable of determining the outcome of events for centuries ahead, and therefore framed a perfect Constitution the first time around.

Well, twenty-seven amendments since then would seem to show that the core of the Constitution is pretty good, but that it has had to adjust to keep up with the changing realities of the past 232 years, major and minor.

And we still have debates over interpretations of the Constitution, from “originalists” and strict constructionists who only proceed from the literal text, to people who believe in an adapting ‘living Constitution’, to so-called ‘judicial activists’ who create legal precedent for social change.

It’s telling that we have a so-called ‘Supreme Court’ deciding these things…in my view they have kept the core bits of the Trek constitution, while reforming the *in*stitutions that are vehicles for it.

476. JL - November 19, 2008

In my opinion, this whole “Young Kirk is an A-hole and doesn’t match the personailty of the Kirk we know” thing has me a bit concerned also.

However, I cannot imagine in a million years that four honest-to-goodness Trekkie writers would make the top guy in Trek act out of character without having a reason to do so.

I think they’re giving us a view of Kirk as a youngster – a view that we have never had before. And we get to see that guy grow up, we invest in the character and we see the tings that affect him – and then at around 3/4 of the way into the film we see him mature into the Kirk we all know and love.

I know I’m not the same person I was at 20 years old.

It would be pretty one-dimensional to show Kirk with the same personality all the way through.

477. Holger - November 19, 2008

471: But on the other hand they have powerful anti-grav technology in the 23rd century, so it may not be such a big deal to move the ship into orbit.

478. AJ - November 19, 2008

Anthony Pascale:

Would it be possible for you and the team to put together a “The story so far…” article, where you summarize everything we know? So much info has been dumped in just a few days that it’s tough to remember the info we had prior to the roadshows and the new trailer.

My post 470 mentions 3, but we need the dust to settle a bit and see where we are.

479. DAK23 - November 19, 2008

#62, are you insuating that police officers are simple “things” that can only handle “simple” tasks. That’s quite an assumption!

Also, I’m as big a Star Trek fan as anyone I know, but who gives a rats *ss if the police officer is a robot or not, for cripes sake, it’s just a movie based on a 40 something year old television show!

480. VOODOO - November 19, 2008

Isn’t it pretty clear that this film takes place in an alternate universe?

It allows the universe we have known for over 40 years to stand and it allows the writers the freedom to have an all new universe to play in.

What the creative team is saying about this not being a reboot, is true from a certain point of view.

I think this was a pretty good direction for them to have taken.

481. biggandyy - November 19, 2008

I am so friggin sick of time travel this and time travel that… ENOUGH ALREADY! Whatever happened to “wagon train to the stars”? Morality plays taking place in space rather in the wild west?

Too many damn special effects and too many lazy writers. Want an alternative energy source? Wrap Gene Roddenberry’s body in copper wire and put a giant magnet were his headstone should be and all his spinning in his grave will power the planet for eons.

482. sean - November 19, 2008

#471

It’s been addressed many times. The idea behind it from the writer’s perspective is that the Enterprise is required to endure considerable stress while traveling through space (black holes, planets, etc.), so it is built in a gravity well.

From a ‘canon’ perspective, the dedication plaque read ‘San Francisco, Calif.’ Some have stretched that to mean that the shipyards were in stationary orbit over San Francisco, but I’d never heard that theory until this all came up. The Enterprise-D was built on the surface of Mars according to TNG, so it isn’t totally inconsistent with the show.

From a ‘fanon’ perspective, supposedly Matt Jeffries intended those little triangles to be some kind of landing strut, but no ship was ever shown landing until ‘Generations’ (the saucer crash), and deliberately on Voyager.

483. sean - November 19, 2008

#481

Right. Because TOS *never* used time travel as a story point. ;)

484. Rikarus - November 19, 2008

#455

Yah good point, I was operating from Naval tradition where if you are in command of a vessel you are the “Captain” but you still wear your rank, and anyone who is a Captain is addressed as Commodore.

485. thorsten - November 19, 2008

[480] Do you remember Gödel and Feynman, VOODOO?

486. Thomas Jensen - November 19, 2008

This might be a very good movie, but it’s only related to the original series superficially. It looks so many of the historical details are different as well as visually.

I haven’t a problem with that. I’ll go see it and probably enjoy it. But I’d rather it be a clear reboot then something which tries to link itself to the original show with the original Spock.

It’s very weird to be seeing this.

487. biggandyy - November 19, 2008

483. A couple of times, yes. Now days we can’t swing a denebian slime devil around without hitting an alternate universe or time traveler trying to destroy Earth.

488. Dr. Image - November 19, 2008

#351- Closetrekker-
No, YOU lighten up.

I’m making observations based on the evidence at hand.
Exactly WHAT evidence is there that it’s an alternate timeline??
Can you or ANYONE be certain of this? No.

We’ve had years of crappy Trek.
We deserve to be convinced that this is different- AND somehow better.
I’m not yet convinced.

One should think before one drinks the Kool Aid- again!

489. The Geek Who Gets Laid Often - November 19, 2008

Canon = Dogma

The Original Series and subsequent movies continuously messed with pre-established facts. What you believe to be canon is nothing but a series of facts (many of which contradict each other) that are often woven together by citing elements borrowed form various books and other expanded universe tales.

It blows my mind when fans try to explain THE PILOT EPISODES. Explaining design and crew changes on the bridge from The Cage to The Man Trap to Where No Man Has Gone Before and back is the epitome of neurosis. Do fans of the Fresh Prince of Bel Air share a common belief that Aunt Viv received massive cosmetic surgery for the last few seasons of the show?

Now I’ve seen all the episodes and don’t care about the books or the Animated Series. Most of the so-called canon violations I read about simply do not come from the actual tv show. They were made up later in order to weave all the incongruous elements of the series together. So now we’re supposed to believe that:

- the Enterprise was refit every couple of months for the hell of it
- Starfleet uniforms were changed with every refit
- the above refits also coincided with massive crew changes
- between two refits, hypo-sprays were developed. Their use proved much more convenient and effective than sticking a pill into an unconscious man’s mouth
- during one refit, phaser rifles were replaced with pistols
- during this same refit, Spock decided a logical being such as himself should calm down, stop running around and shouting about shooting people
- in the future, digital displays like those of chronometers will go out of style
- Sulu’s Excelsior had Trans Warp Drive. Then the engineers forgot how to make those for at least another century or so

Trying to make sense out of nonsense belongs to the realm of philosophers, not sci-fi geeks. This is bloody entertainment. Enjoy it for what it is. Anal-retentive canon lovers will be the undoing of this franchise.

490. Xonofvulcan - November 19, 2008

Just a quick thought about the “quarry” that really young Kirk drives the Corvette into: The more HD you watch this at, the more clearly you see old, dirt-covered, 20th-21st century-style buildings at the bottom. Given that World War III was supposed to have happened before Zefrem Cochrane develops warp drive, is it not possible that perhaps what’s down there is the remains of a city that was nuked and since isolated?

491. NTH - November 19, 2008

Kirk on board the Enterprise as a cadet along with Captain Pike,Spock, McCoy,Uhuru and Scotty??……… This is quite confusing.Are we talking about alternate timelines here or new canon?Time travelling Romulans up to mischief and a time travelling Spock trying to correct same certainly opens up all sorts of possibilities.The scope of this film appears to be quite wide.However what I am looking forward to is being re-introduced to the main characters in the original Star Trek . Kirk……The hidden years….I look forward to seeing how Kirks background story and his characters development is protrayed.Quinto had Nimoy for advice, its a pity that Pine did not have access to Shatner for advice in the same way however roll on May 2009 and our next adventure.

492. BaronByng - November 19, 2008

469 Ian,

I think I agree with you (see my most recent post), but to add something, out here in the real world, the official Trek franchise is kind of in danger of going permanently kaput for who knows how long. Someone posted a link in the comment thread on the Phase II article to that old SNL sketch about “The Restaurant Enterprise,” and to a lot of people, that’s what Star Trek is — campy niche fare for people who memorized Mr. Scott’s Guide To The Enterprise.

It’s telling that most non-Trekkers cite TVH as the only Star Trek film they’ve seen, and historically that was the one that made the most money…Probably because it was remarkably canon-free. You could watch it solely as a ‘time travelers save the whales’ flick and enjoy it.

Anyway, the current mood of the world is one hungry for optimism and change, and we seem eager to try new solutions and new people. I might be projecting a bit, but it seems that JJ’s Trek is about getting past “red/blue divides” on canon (or cruft, depending on your point of view) and creating a new, united Trek that works for everyone.

480 – Don’t get me started on the Kirk-as-Luke-on-Tattooine parallels, but yeah, there’s some Hero with A Thousand Faces going on here, not necessarily a bad thing :)

493. Robert Gillis - November 19, 2008

Anthony Pascale:

Would it be possible for you and the team to put together a “The story so far…” article, where you summarize everything we know? So much info has been dumped in just a few days that it’s tough to remember the info we had prior to the roadshows and the new trailer.

My post 470 mentions 3, but we need the dust to settle a bit and see where we are.

I second that! PLEASE! We need a “What we know for sure” FAQ for ST11!

494. Donn - November 19, 2008

431. BaronByng: Perfect post. Go read it if you haven’t!

Warp effect: Seriously? People are calling canon violation on the warp effect. You’ve got to be kidding me. We went from basically no effect in TOS, the rainbow in TMP, a basic blur in the other movies, stretch-bang in TNG-era… you call that a consistent canon? Either you write it off as a new effect for a new production (as I do) or you retcon in some technical reason how warp technology changed and therefore so did what it “looks” like, in which case there is no problem anyway.

People seem to be painting “hardcore Trek fans” and “fans of the classic series” with a pretty broad brush. Truth is, there are those who ONLY love TOS and shun all novels and TNG and all that came after, those that generally love all of the series and films (with the exception of ENT), and those that truly love all of it, ENT and novels included, and they would ALL call themselves “hardcore Trek fans.” And of that group, there are those that hate everything to do with this movie, those that are skeptical but hope the canon violations are explained and will give it a chance, and those that like what they are seeing and look forward to a great movie that revitalizes Trek, bending of canon be damned.

Don’t insult my fandom, and that of so many others, by assuming that because you and your immediate buddies are “hardcore Trek fans,” and you feel a particular way about the treatment of TOS by this movie, that all “hardcore Trek fans” feel the same way. The world is a much more interesting place than that.

495. montreal paul - November 19, 2008

397. Neil – November 19, 2008
#390 -
Not to mention editing out of the “chase scene” the part where BoyKirk stops to fiddle with the roof?
Car enthusiasts, correct me if I’m wrong but in 1964, Corvette softtops still had to be lowered manually, no?

Ever see what happens when you unlatch the front clamps of the convertible when driving at excess of 80mph? Rips the whole roof clean off. Common sense guys.. common sense.

496. sean - November 19, 2008

#493

I’ll second that as well. Having been a visitor to the site for several years I have it all down pretty clearly, but I think that would be invaluable for new visitors.

497. Randall - November 19, 2008

#458 ByGeorge:

Thanks, and well said on your end too. The thing about Kirk is, he needs to be an inspiring character. You need to look at this guy and think, he’s a real hero, in the sense that he’s a pretty ordinary person who does epic-ally heroic things… even those he’s this fictional sci-fi character in a fiction sci-fi future, riding in this bizarre, futuristic spaceship.. he’s got humanity to him. He’s more than just Flash Gordon or Buck Rogers, or Batman or whatever. Even though he’s also in that vein.

But he also needs to be an inspiring character because he represents the classic great commander that we all view as an archetype… the guy you want to follow into battle or into a new frontier. He’s a Daniel Boone figure, semi-legendary but still human enough to be real. That kind of character isn’t just some misbehaving, lusty bad boy. He’s got determination and grit and some real character TO his character. He’s a guy WITH character.

People like that don’t just grow out of “bad boys.” They have a lot more to them. Kirk’s a “born leader,” and as such he should exhibit that.

But the womanizing stuff… you know, what concerns me more is not so much that Kirk “womanizes,” per se…. that’s in how you look at it… but rather that he not be an adolescent about it. The thing about Kirk is, he’s a truly lonely, deeply lonely guy. That’s Horatio Hornblower. The guy who has to command, and can’t get close to people because of that—and doesn’t have time for a partner. His ship is his partner. And the thing is, where will Kirk’s passion for that ship and his command show itself in this movie? It looks more like he’ll just be, as I said, a bad-boy-made-good. Which is not Kirk. Not solely. Kirk isn’t a tragic figure by any means, but he’s got a tiny touch of tragic echo to him. He’s the hero who saves the world time and time again, but the downside is, he’s alone, and lonely as hell. And mostly can’t show it.

My feeling about his thing with women was, he was the guy who is in charge, and women admire that. They admire the guy with confidence who takes command. Not that women really “want” to be commanded, but as men have this innate feeling that they “need” to be in command, women usually have the innate feeling that they admire the man who CAN do that–command. It’s not derogatory, it’s just human nature. So occasionally Kirk “used” women, but it was always to a greater end–to save the day or whatever. And really, he was just the commanding figure who knew his own male sexuality and was utterly confident in it, and could command it at will—which isn’t rare, but isn’t all that common, either.

But at the same time, he was also romantic as hell… a romantic figure who couldn’t show it, couldn’t let it out. And that’s where the loneliness figures in. Of course, the Kirk of the TV show fell in love WAY too easily because you gotta get things rolled up in 55 minutes of story on TV. So BAM, Kirk falls for this or that woman. It wasn’t even REALLY believable when it was Edith Keeler, because THAT guy, that commanding, confident guy, isn’t going to have THAT much of the romantic right under his skin…not in real life. BUT like it or not, that’s the character we were given—and even though it’s not totally real, it still adds a depth to him, because now we have this heroic figure who’s so freaking lonely, he’s ready to fall in love at the drop of a hat, practically. That’s SAD. Now, good for him, he recovers immediately, sinking himself back into his work as it were. But it’s still sad, and kind of touching. The tough, commanding guy who has this miserably lonely heart. I think even though few of us are anything like that, we can all certainly understand it and empathize deeply with it.

So what concerns me MOST about this film is that I can’t see where they’ve done a service to THAT Kirk, who is more real as a character than a motorcycle-riding bad boy. I mean… how much of a cliche is THAT? Again, okay–we gotta get people in to see the movie, and a sure way to illustrate the tough guy character is to stick him on a motorcycle and ride him through a desolate landscape. I mean… come on. Yawn. MAJOR cliche. Of course films like this run on cliches—because we all “get it” then. But that doesn’t serve the character. Hitting on women like a horny schoolboy doesn’t serve the character. Grabbing Uhura’s breasts in a fight doesn’t serve the character. It’s just a bunch of cheap shots to make a cheap point. And again, I’m not against a cheap shot now and then. But what’s worrying me is, it’s looking like that’s all there IS to this Kirk. The kid driving a car over a cliff… the young man f**king around in bars, getting in fights for no good reason. They young man who needs a good talking to. But guess what? A good talking to and he turns himself around! Bullshit. Kirk shouldn’t need “turning around.” He should have been on his track long before this. That’s who he is.

Some people might ask what all this matters… but it matters a hell of a lot more than whether the Enterprise is built in Iowa or in space or on freakin’ Jupiter. The audience can’t look at Kirk like a stock bad boy character who makes good. That’s not the recipe for an epic hero with humanity in his soul, and a true sense of good and right and wrong. Worse, the audience can’t dislike Kirk. They can come away feeling like he’s a swaggering guy with a bit too much charm. Okay. But coming away feeling like he doesn’t deserve where he got to… that’s bad. And that’s what I’m afraid he’s being painted as in this movie. That’s not the Kirk from the series or even the earlier films. That’s a Kirk that isn’t what Kirk is supposed to be. Period.

498. JL - November 19, 2008

“People are calling canon violation on the warp effect.”

ARTs

Anal Retentive Trekkies

They should be locked up to help keep society safe.

499. Rikarus - November 19, 2008

Hey, at least they made the ToS uniforms look kick ass!

500. Yammer - November 19, 2008

488 Different and/or better?

I think the most obvious predictor of the approach taken on new Trek is to consider Orci/Kurtzmann’s work on Transformers.

Did they adhere exactly to canon? No. Different makes of car, different villain configuration, different first contact story.

Did they make a movie that was catchy and fun? Evidently so.

Did they honour the original? I would say yes.

501. thorsten - November 19, 2008

[492] Again, that sums it up, BaronByng.
Well done.

502. The Gorn Identity - November 19, 2008

Didn’t Shatner himself co-write a prequel novel (Collision Course) in which a young Kirk is a rebellious youth? If this movie’s Kirk synchs up with the way Shatner views the character then that’s cool with me.

503. Rikarus - November 19, 2008

498

That doesn’t happen until the great Trek war in Futurama, and then they launch the last videos into space, and kill all the Trek Nerds.

:-D

504. hitch1969© loves Star Trek Phase II. - November 19, 2008

Here’s the deal. You either come to the site religiously… FAITHFULLY, and soak it up as it comes in. Its disrespectful to those of us who do… that anyone would want a “cheat sheet” of what is known to date.

Do your own homework, no talking to your neighbor or looking at anyone else’s paper! Thats how you learn *proper*

inhavingsaidthat, I think that you cheaters have a marvelous idea. maybe AP will do that. perhaps he will not. it remains to be seen…

THE WOMEN!!

=h=

505. JL - November 19, 2008

Randall my man, you know your Kirk.

506. Brian - November 19, 2008

489- You hit it right on the head. Bravo.

I love my old-school TOS as much as anyone, but I realized awhile ago that things were going to be VERY different with this film. I’m all for it being a success. If they screw it up, Trek will go away for a very long time.

Harry Knowles has posted his reaction to the footage:

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/39162

507. Todd - November 19, 2008

Re: Location of Enterprise construction…
Take a careful look at the fields just before the construction site is shown. Those aren’t corn fields. The rows are too far apart, and the crop just doesn’t look like corn. Looks an awful lot like the grape vinyards that I’ve visited in Napa Valley. So, I’d say she’s being built in CA and not IA.

Can’t wait for May!!!! :-)

508. McCoy - November 19, 2008

#351–You are lost in your own confusion.

Why does this look different than past TOS? The following mix:

1) Alternate timeline
2) JJ’s Desire
3) new actors

All three will be mixed together. We will never see in the course of the movie what is an indication of JJs take on an old design vs the affect of the timeline change.

Now that the dust has settled, and we know the entire timeline is changed, I can have fun with the idea that there are changes. HOWEVER, wow, the bridge, the Enterpise and the corridors really, really, suck and I want them to either explode or time-warp to normal (something closer to the originals) at the end of the film.

I think one of the things that through us off was the initial statement that this was a move “about how all the characters came together” whereas in fact, it’s a movie about them coming together differently, in a different ship, different bridge, different world.

So not only are set designs and actors different, but their back stories are now different. Wow. It doesn’t really matter why at this point any of that happens, it should be called a reboot and they should be transparent about it.

Unless of course all is restored at the end of the film to something much more familiar.

509. Fansince9 - November 19, 2008

Re: (CANON ALERT: Kirk can drive a stick, unlike in “Piece of the Action”)
————

Wasn’t it Spock who was driving the car in “PIece of the Action”? I just remember the backfiring car and squealing breaks and my memory is telling me that Spock was in the driver’s seat and couldn’t drive a stick.

510. Closettrekker - November 19, 2008

#488—-”Closetrekker-
No, YOU lighten up”

You must have me confused with someone else. I never suggested you should “lighten up”. I ‘did’, however, say, “Give me a break”.

“I’m making observations based on the evidence at hand.
Exactly WHAT evidence is there that it’s an alternate timeline??
Can you or ANYONE be certain of this? No.”

–Time travelling Romulans…check.
–Time travelling Spock Prime…check.
–Attack on USS Kelvin 4 days before Kirk is born by Romulans from the future…check.
–Kirk is raised by an uncle…check.
–Attack on Vulcan by the same Romulans…check.
–Young Kirk is visited by Spock Prime…check.
–Kirk knows how to operate a manual transmission…check
–Young Kirk has a very significant relationship with Pike prior to his promotion to Fleet Captain…check.

I could go on, but I think you get the point.

Add these things together with Orci’s promise that “Anything which appears to violate canon will have a canon explanation”, and it all adds up to one thing…alternate timeline.

Now, Dr. Image, I hardly believe you are not intelligent enough to see all of that as “evidence” that there is an alternate timeline at play in this story, whether it ends up being permanent or not.

Yes, I can absolutely be certain of this. 2 plus 2 still equals 4 where I come from.

And for your information, I haven’t drank “the kool-aid” since the end of the Kirk/Spock/McCoy era, so I could hardly fit into the category of fan you are describing.

511. earthclanbootstrap - November 19, 2008

Post 489 – “Trying to make sense out of nonsense belongs to the realm of philosophers, not sci-fi geeks. This is bloody entertainment. Enjoy it for what it is. Anal-retentive canon lovers will be the undoing of this franchise.”

Au contraire, mon frere. Trying to make sense out of nonsense is almost exclusively what sci-fi geeks do! ;-)

I think that a lot of the folks who strongly support this movie are forgetting that for a large proportion of Trek fans, the (fairly but not perfectly) consistent world building involved in the Trek franchise is a big part of the draw. The trailer makes a pretty convincing argument that the production team have decided to urinate all over that. It is by no means definite, but exceedingly freakin’ likely. That immediately makes me take a step back and reevaluate this movie and whether I’ll even go see it. Until I saw this trailer, I was actively excited about this movie; and that was knowing and accepting full well that, yes, some things would change. We’re not all dinosaurs that want to freeze everything into the production values of the sixties and insist that every iota of insignificant dialogue be adhered to. After all, as many have pointed out, the shows and films themselves have often contradicted one another on usually minor points. But it seems that in very broad strokes they have decided to blatantly contradict or outright destroy wide swathes of established “history”. And quite frankly, the argument that this is a different timeline doesn’t cut it with me. As I mentioned before, it’s a plot device that has been done to DEATH, especially in recent Trek. I’m sick of seeing it, it doesn’t interest me and if it’s the best that they can come up with it’s a good indication that this might not be worth my time, especially if it means that Trek from here on out will end up being some lame-ass “temporal anomaly” version. I sincerely hope that my suspicions are proved wrong, and they are just that- suspicions. But if the trailer is anything to go by, and after all, it is supposed to be representative of the film, I may well end up writing the whole frakkin’ thing off as a bad job.

512. Andrew - November 19, 2008

Sorry if this question has already been answered, but I am confused about Kirk’s story arc here.

Am I to understand that he comes aboard the Enterprise (via McCoy smuggling him on) as a cadet, and by the end of a short period of time he is promoted to captain and given command of the ship?

513. Scott - November 19, 2008

#494 – Donn, absolutely no insult toward your fandom was ever meant to be implied and if you took it that way, that’s unfortunate. Do forgive me. But this seems the sort of divide that seems to be the course here on these boards and with respect, it was never this way in the past. Yes different fans had their likes and dislikes, but we were always one in so many ways. Now its us and them, don’t insult me and if you don’t like it, go away and “get a life” and move on. It seems that this is only the beginning of the division.

You prove my point well, thank you as to whats happening as a result of all of this.

Mr Abrams, I do hope your noting whats starting to happen as a result of all of this. Trek fans have NEVER had a history like this.

514. Randall - November 19, 2008

#505 JL:

Hey… Kirk was one of my main seminal hero figures and male role models since I was a kid in the late 60s and early 70s. Kirk, James Bond, Jacques Cousteau, Chuck Yeager… guys like that. Some real, some not. But in any case, Kirk is a guy who is a MAN even when he’s a young man. He’s GOT to be… otherwise he ain’t Kirk.

And that’s not just my opinion… I really believe this is ESSENTIAL to the mythos of Star Trek. Kirk and Spock are at the center of it. And Spock we know—if they violated Spock as a character, people would be all over it. Everybody knows that. And Nimoy wouldn’t have done it. But it seems like they’ve violated Kirk without even realizing it… and in part because nobody stands up to speak for Kirk’s character as it should be.

Shatner has never done it. But then I suppose it’s not his job to. Nimoy does it for Spock and you kind of admire him for that… and I’m disappointed, in that sense, that Shatner has never done that for Kirk. I guess Shatner himself never really “got it,” either. Probably because there’s less depth in Shatner than in Nimoy (even though I truly admire and like Shatner–at least his public persona.. I don’t know him personally of course–for all I know he could be a giant dick in real life, but I doubt it) but also because I think it’s tougher to “get” and define a character like Kirk, as opposed to Spock. Spock is striking—the guy stuck between two worlds, torn in two. That’s the kind of thing that slaps you in the face and demands that you watch. Kirk is the guy, on the other hand, that you accept as a hero, and that’s that. Tougher to get your head around, I guess. Even for Shatner. I just wish he’d tried harder over the years.

You notice that Kirk in the movies is often nothing like Kirk in the TV show. That always made me flinch. It made me think—A) the writers don’t get Kirk or know him… and B) Shatner doesn’t care enough about him either. He isn’t a part of Shatner, maybe, the way Spock is a part of Nimoy. I don’t know what it is.

515. McCoy - November 19, 2008

No matter what, that’s the worst bridge of any TREK. OMG.

516. blueavenger - November 19, 2008

EVERYONE!

Isn’t this is where it starts to get frustrating? I was gobsmacked by the trailer and can’t wait for the film. But I would also rather not know anything more about it and hate spoilers. Trouble is, I can’t help but visit this site every day for updates! What do I do for the next 6 months?!?

Why, oh why did they have to go and bump the movie back to May 09!?!?

517. Ian B - November 19, 2008

“Mr Abrams, I do hope your noting whats starting to happen as a result of all of this. Trek fans have NEVER had a history like this.”

You obviously aren’t aware of the furore when they announced TNG- the sacrelege of a Star Trek series without the original cast. :)

518. A. .S.F.33 - November 19, 2008

#32Captain Sisko

What are you kidding me?? If they messed with TOS continuity why would you think TNG stuf would be safe??? Once tos continuity has been wiped out by this movie it’s all gone.

519. hitch1969© loves Star Trek Phase II. - November 19, 2008

I know that he’s nowhere in site today, but I’d like to get a leg up on some of the more boring and perfunctory questions for The OrcSter™. I figure that like a Green Day song, when he comes around… he’ll need to be blowing off steam with hitchamphetamine©.

Dear The Orcster™,

First of all, I had asked about the thing whether Sir JJ© calls you The OrcSter™, and you in kind respond to him as Sir JJ©. I’m not even going to ask about Dr. Alvin Kurtzweil® today, just to keep this one simple. Anyway, please confirm.

Second, and I guessing after being paid several hundred dollars for your Star Trek script, how does a man with your means afford the rock n rolla ayatollah lifestyle here at trekmovies dot com dot org? Are you writing anything today? How did you like working with Shia LaBoof? Personally that dude skeers me with all his drinkin and drivin. Maybe you put in the next Transformers script a scene where his car turns into a robot when he’s drunk or something? Like Jude Law in “AI”. I loved that movie, dude. I especially love the part where they see NYC under all the water with the statue of liberty sticking out and old Jude says “Man-hattan”.

These are the tough, hard hitters today, OrcSter. Avoid them, and we’ll know your true colors – yella. now, hollaback. hella kewl. aiiight?

THE WOMEN!!

=h=

520. Nelson - November 19, 2008

trekweb has JJ Abrams quotes from an Empire Magazine interview explaining some of the footage in the trailer:
http://trekweb.com/articles/2008/11/19/JJ-Abrams-Describes-the-Scenes-in-His-Star-Trek-Trailer-Spoilers.shtml

521. Charley W - November 19, 2008

Several points:

1) The quarry may not be in Iowa (where did they actually film it? or was it mostly CG?). Same with the Enterprise- perhaps Kirk drives to SF? (Doesn’t look like it to me, tho)

2) I don’t like the cop- if a robot, it violates TOS AND NG, which NEVER had an Earth-built android, and the crew is always surprised to meet one. I always thought that was an odd bit about Federation Technology that was never explained. (It may be a breathing mask, though- perhaps some sort of enviromental hazard?)

3) If JTK wrecked his uncle’s car in a stunt like what we see, it’s no wonder the guy’s mad at him. I remember when I wrecked my Dad’s car, and I was quite a bit older and it was a ‘normal’ accident.

4) All the times Shatner’s Kirk introduced himself, he NEVER used the middle name. How often do you use your middle name in introducing yourself, even to the cops? It really feels unatural, as if a nod to the fans.

5) If Kirk is a cadet, shouldn’t Chekov be also? After all, he’s around 10 years younger than JTK!

6) They can MEET Romulans before “Balance of Terror” and not know that they are ROMULANS.

7) So Nero’s target involves Vulcan, rather than Kirk. That makes much more sense, whatever his specific intent is. It doesn’t seem to be Sarek or Spock- why destroy the whole planet when a knife in the night works so well with little risk? Either Nero is way too grandiose (“If I blow up the planet on his birthday, I’m sure to get him”), or he’s pissed off that the Unification party won the election after Nemesis.

More after I read all the comments tonight.

522. Blowback - November 19, 2008

I am glad to see rational discussion starting to assert itself. Many good thoughtful posts here today. I also think it’s very necessary with a fan base as passionate as the Trek community. Let the fury expend itself and people will step away from the ledges (so to speak).

523. Daoud - November 19, 2008

CANON schmanon…

These “Canon Alerts” are rubbish. Let’s address a couple of them:

–The stick shift. The difference between the Corvette and the ‘flivver’ is simple. It’s not the stick shift. It’s the CLUTCH mechanism that’s different. When he has problems driving in aPotA, it’s the clutch he can’t handle.

–The alert about the Enterprise being built in IA (a/k/a Iowa)… This is NOT Captain Robert April’s ship (NX-1700). Because George Kirk was killed on the USS Kelvin NCC-0514, he wasn’t onboard to suggest the name Enteprise to April during the shakedown cruise. (As depicted in one of the novels boborci mentioned a long time ago.) So, April’s ship in the Nero-verse, ended up being the USS Constitution NCC-1700 as originally planned. Pike’s ship is a different ship, folks. It’s built much later than 2245, and again in response to a changed universe.

–Gorn Rock. D’oh. The Metrons constructed an artificial planetoid for Kirk to fight the Gorn. Why can’t they model it after Vulcan? The Squire, and later the Melkotians and Excalbians modeled everything after history. Vasquez Rocks thus are fine… and they start with a ‘V’. ;)

–Kirk’s Black Shirt. He’s not assigned to a section. He’s not assigned to Command, so no yellow shirt. He’s not assigned to Operations, so no red shirt. He’s not assigned to Sciences, so no blue shirt. Have we forgotten basic TOS? And I don’t get the “alert” saying he’s still a cadet. We don’t know that. He’s just unassigned. And technically, he seems to be coming out of some sort of advanced course, not the same course Ensign Chekov would have just finished.

–Romulans before Balance of Terror is NOT a ‘canon alert’. It’s seeing, and recognizing Romulans as the Romulan race. We already know they exist, there’s the Romulan War a century ago. No one has ever been captured that was a “known” Romulan. And we’re in an altered timeline. Kirk recognizes the energy signature from the incident that killed his father, and turned up Shat-only-knows how many other times… something that is strangely Romulan, but we the audience knows is connected to Nero’s incursions in time. I seriously doubt Nero (or Nhierraufv if you prefer) is working in league with the Romulan Star Empire of 2262.

–Kirk/Pike meeting. Not a canon alert. Kirk first met Pike when he was promoted to Fleet Captain. Doesn’t say he never saw him or met him again. He calls him “Chris” after all in The Menagerie. Who’s not to say that Pike wasn’t promoted to Fleet Captain the day Uhura, Sulu and the other new crew of the new NCC-1701 were in the bar celebrating… the day when Kirk gets into a fight after hitting on Uhura… the day Pike rescues Kirk’s ass because he realizes he’s George Kirk’s orphaned son. If something similar happened in the prime universe… then in both the prime and Nero-verse… Kirk met Pike the day he was promoted…. LONG before Kirk became captain of the 1701. Makes sense if you think about it. Who’s not to say Pike was a captain during his first 5YM (the prime universe), and then a fleet captain during the second 5YM (the first 5YM in the Nero-verse)?

I don’t get the canonistas who aren’t creative enough to figure out rational canon-fitting explanations. 40 years ago, this is how we sorted it all out. It still works.

524. Bob, the Evil Klingon Frontline Leader - November 19, 2008

521- The Corvette scene was filmed outside Bakersfield, CA. Would have been nice if they could have filmed around Riverside, Iowa. But I don’t think that they had time and it was the wrong time of year, too.

525. sean - November 19, 2008

#459, 513

Apparently you weren’t around for the wedge that was TNG? DS9? Heck, The Motion Picture?? There were plenty of TOS fans that said ‘That ain’t MY Enterprise’. The fanbase has been divided over things like this for a very, very long time. This won’t be the first film to divide them, nor will it likely be the last (at least we hope so).

526. boborci - November 19, 2008

519. hitch1969© loves Star Trek Phase II. – November 19, 2008

JJ calls me Orseeeeee! And I call him Jota-Jota (the Spanish pronunciation of the letter J, repeated twice).

Shia is truly a pleasure to work with, and we genuinely like the guy. It should be noted the cops DID NOT PRESS charges after it was determined that his recent accident was the result of someone RUNNING A RED LIGHT.

Writing Cowboys and Aliens today with Alex and Damon Lindelof.

Anything else?

527. 24th Century Rockstar - November 19, 2008

#450 – I think the “rock quarries in Iowa as potential fallout from WWIII” speculation is from the war referenced against the “Eastern Coalition” from FC.

I’m still iffy on that Enterprise design, but after seeing the rest of the film footage, I say ‘Bring it on!”

And that McCoy line we hear in the trailer? Awesome!

The care that’s gone into casting the actors is enough credibility for me to put away my own irks and go out and at least see the thing before making any final conclusions.

Can’t wait for the summer!

- 24TH CRS!

528. Jeffries Tuber - November 19, 2008

So many people asking the same questions, making the same observations and repeating the same disagreements over and over again.

If people are patient/crazy enough to read every post, or at least Closettrekker’s and mine, they’ll have many answers and concerns addressed with plausible theories. Also, you really shouldn’t bother posting if you haven’t read the interviews with KO from a few weeks ago [links on this site]. And you definitely shouldn’t draw conclusions unless you’ve read the books Orci has mentioned as containing histories and ideas that will be canonized in this movie: BEST DESTINY, PRIME DIRECTIVE, SPOCK’S WORLD, etc.

The best news of all is that a number of extremist canonistas and ‘young Wesley Crushers’ like Databrain have promised to not see this movie. Which is awesome, because the movie will make plenty of money anyway and plenty of us geeks don’t want our theatrical experience ruined by some nerd’s aneurysm.

529. A. .S.F.33 - November 19, 2008

#5Randall14

I agree with you that no one seems to stand up for the Kirk character and yet for me that is the most important character of all. I am so afraid the Kirk seen in this movie shares nothing with original tos kirk except his name and some personality characteristics which appear exagerated in this movie. Alternate or time line change or not, I can’t believe Kirk was ever some aimless loser waiting for Pike to point him in the right direction. The more i hear and see about this movie the more afraid i am. It ain’t my Trek anymore.

530. Blowback - November 19, 2008

boborci in da hause!!!! Love it!

531. Robert - November 19, 2008

# 513: “Mr Abrams, I do hope your noting whats starting to happen as a result of all of this. Trek fans have NEVER had a history like this…”
=========================

…except for TOS Remastered, and “Enterprise”, and the announcement of a (gasp!) Klingon crewmember on board the NCC-1701D, and the 1978 debut of the pre-production images of the TMP crew in their jammies, and the bright white bridge set, and an Enterprise with (gasp!) flat nacelles…

But, yeah, other than that, we’ve just been one big happy family for 30 years now. :)

If you weren’t there, you don’t know what you’re talking about. If you *were* there, you’ve forgotten!

532. thorsten - November 19, 2008

[526] haha, all the best to Alex and Damon…
have fun, guys!

533. Blowback - November 19, 2008

531. Robert

“If you weren’t there, you don’t know what you’re talking about. If you *were* there, you’ve forgotten!”

I was there and I haven’t forgotten! But the conversation is progeessing a lot faster now and more points of view can be heard….

534. sean - November 19, 2008

I’d say this answers the ‘where is it being constructed’ question:

“There are a couple of sequences that take place in Iowa and some in San Francisco”

535. Randall - November 19, 2008

boborci:

Tell you what. If you have the time… check my comments at #402 and #497… then reassure me. Just in a brief sentence or two.

I mean, if you poke around in here now and then, and don’t mind doing that, I’d appreciate it.

Of course, I don’t expect you to…. you’re a busy guy and I’m a long-winded nobody on the internet… (actually I’m a writer myself, but I work out of NY, and you wouldn’t know me anyway) but if you have a spare minute or two, I’d be grateful.

536. sean - November 19, 2008

That’s a direct quote from JJ in the Empire article, by the way.

537. Titan2010 - November 19, 2008

All I have to say… This movie is going to ROCK!!

I’ve already heard several of my anit-Trek colleagues from work talking about the preview b4 QOS…. They’re planning on seeing the movie.

Here’s hoping more non-Trek fans join!!

——————————————–
——————————————-
**In Darkeness there is Strength**

538. Dom - November 19, 2008

I see it this way: Nero goes back into the past and a new parallel universe results. The original, as per Hawking’s theory, continues as normal, minus Nero and Nimoy’s Spock who are now in the new universe (remember Back to the Future anyone?)

Looked at this way, the universe of TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager and Enterprise will carry on as before. Nothing is erased.

On the other hand, there’s now a variant universe in the movies that only has Star Trek: Enterprise in common. In this universe, there’s another Kirk, Spock and McCoy whose fates are completely open. Chances are, this Kirk won’t die on Veridian III!

The trailer is stunning. As someone who fell away from Trek in the 1990s, I’m exactly the kind of person this trailer needs to attract. I know the work of the Supreme Court and really respect it. But any lingering doubts (not that I really had any!) have been blown away!

539. Author of "The Vulcan Neck Pinch for Fathers" - November 19, 2008

Minor nitpick on the commentary above, but…

Who says the Enterprise shipyard pictured above actually in Iowa!?!?!

Does the Federation logo actually say Iowa? Believe it or not, there are rural stretches of road in California….point being that we see the ‘Vette chase in Iowa, then cut to the motorcycle scene in a similarly flat field, thus we’re making an inference that it’s in Iowa….

Methinks we doth infer too much…

540. Robert - November 19, 2008

#533 – ” I was there and I haven’t forgotten! But the conversation is progeessing a lot faster now and more points of view can be heard….”

SO true! Thank ghod there was an internet back then! There would be just that one weekend at a convention, then you had to go home a resume real life on Monday. I sometimes miss that (there’s a lot of things I miss about those days!).

But this — sharing it all with thousands from everywhere leading up to the big countdown — this is better! You just have to take a deep breath, filter out the noise, and remember that everyone has an opinion. Some louder than others.

541. Robert - November 19, 2008

Whoops, I meant “..NO internet back then..”

542. LoyalStarTrekFan - November 19, 2008

I took special note of the “Canon Alerts.” My thoughts are the followings:

Alert 1: “Kirk can drive a stick shift, unlike in “A Piece of the Action.” The scene in which Kirk cannot drive a stick shift in that episode was done to add humor to the episode and probably to further illustrate that Kirk is from the future. As a result, I believe that this canon violation is minor and can be easily ignored.

Alert 2: “USS Enterprise being built in Iowa, not San Francisco, CA” This one is more serious but forgivable if we assume that the San Francisco Shipyards are in Earth’s orbit and named the “San Francisco Shipyards” because that’s where SF HQ is located, objects in orbit do not hover over the same location all the time, after all, and that the Enterprise was launched from there. Perhaps the starbase we see in the trailer is part of the San Francisco Shipyards. If we assume the above, then what is shown would not be a canon violation. This is speculation of course but it does provide a logical (no pun intended) explanation.

Alert 3: “Encountering Romulans before “Balance of Terror”” This one is the most major canon violation of all the ones listed as the appearance of Romulans, and the fact that humanity had no idea what Romulans looked like prior to that point, was a big deal in the episode. This violation was also expected ever since J.J. Abrams said that there are Romulans in the film and the main villain, Nero, was Romulan. The only explanation I can come up with is that these Romulans look very different (i.e. they are bald, their clothing looks more like pirate’s clothing than military, and J.J Abrams called Nero and his group “rogues.”) So with all that said the Romulans close appearance to Vulcans in “Balance of Terror” may have been surprising to Kirk and crew but it doesn’t explain how they had no idea what Romulans look like.

Alert 4: “Kirk and Pike meeting well before Pike’s promotion” That fact in the episode “The Menagerie” was done to explain why only Spock was committed to getting Pike to Talos IV and to show why Spock held absolute loyalty to Pike. The idea itself does not make much sense though. Usually when someone else takes command of a vessel, the incoming Captain meets to outgoing Captain, if for nothing else than the change in command ceremony, shown in TNG: “Chain of Command.” Therefore, it would be natural to assume that Kirk met Pike during that ceremony. In any case, the situation put forward in “The Menagerie” was done to advance the plot of the episode and this continuity error can be ignored to advance another plot.

Excellent article, TrekMovie, as always.

543. Jamie - November 19, 2008

Thanks for the lovely video caps! :D

I wonder, is this the highest definition available? (1680 × 699 pixels.)

I thought maximum HD (for 2.4:1) was 2595 x 1080?

544. LoyalStarTrekFan - November 19, 2008

In another shot from the trailer, I thought I saw a Starfleet seal on one of the building to the right of the building that has the Federation flag. The Starfleet looking logo can be seen near Kirk’s arm.

The image is located here:
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/xi/screencaps/trailer/trailer031.jpg

545. ByGeorge - November 19, 2008

Randall,

Kirk inspired because he was so dedicated – you trusted him because of his integrity. Notice when Kirk really did fall in love – look at the girl. She was likewise dedicated, self sacrificing, helping the poor, social worker, starry eyed, forward thinking, someone you admired, trusted, and inspired others to be better humans. Harlan Ellison understood Kirk.

Kirk is more of a arch-type hero because of his humanity. Spock is the super human multi-talented genius but lacked Kirk’s passion and ability to inspire. The entire crew respected and admired each other, but Kirk could inspire people, like Edith Keeler did, to do their best – if not better than their best because what they were doing was worth dying for. I really hope this is seen in this new movie.

I agree totally that the Kirk we see in the movies is different than that of TOS. The movies concentrated on Kirk as a superhuman hero whereas the series concentrated on Kirk’s ability to lead because of his ability to inspire and his passion for what he was doing.

Kirk had a healthy appetite for women but he really was married to the ship. This was seen in TOS several times — Mudd’s Women and Ellan of Troyus come to mind. He was attractive to women, but I believe the female fans may have been partial to Spock over Kirk because of Spock’s emotional depths. IOW portraying Kirk as such a womanizer was not essential to his character, rather it was an overly used plot devise to add interest to a lagging story line.

546. thorsten - November 19, 2008

[543]

Its 1920 x 800 Jamie…

547. Lousy_Canadian - November 19, 2008

Thanks for the read. Quite interesting.

548. Hat Rick - November 19, 2008

419, that’s awfully nice of you; thank you.

549. Alex Rosenzweig - November 19, 2008

#489 – “Trying to make sense out of nonsense belongs to the realm of philosophers, not sci-fi geeks. This is bloody entertainment. Enjoy it for what it is. Anal-retentive canon lovers will be the undoing of this franchise.”

I think one aspect you might be either forgetting or not realizing is that people spun theories to knit together the occasional oddities *for fun*. We all know it was a Tv show, and it wasn’t perfect. The “canon” has never been perfect, but it became, especially in the early days when people had a sense of humor about such things, a form of fun to play with ideas for how to reconcile things.

Over time, a number of those ideas ended up on film, as the people who came to be producing Star Trek were the ones who’d grown up as fans. One small example is a logo in the last season of Enterprise which suggested that the Earth StarFleet was part of the UESPA, which was one of the names thrown around very early in TOS for the agency that sent out the Enterprise.

I think it’s little crazy, myself, to worry about stuff like a transporter effect or a warp drive effect, since they changed almost all the time. But various contradictory story elements did get resolved in people’s minds, and usually after lots of typically good-natured debates over different ideas among people who loved Star Trek in its assorted incarnations.

Now, participating in that aspect of the fun might not be everyone’s cup of tea, but I think it’s incredibly disrespectful to simply dismiss the fans who do. (By the same token, it’s equally so to be dismissive of those who prefer not to participate in that particular part of the fun.) Perhaps we should remember that we all express our enjoyment of this stuff in different ways.

550. amok time - November 19, 2008

I’m not disappointed. The bridge, and the other scenes of rocket like fire coming from the warp nacelles look like an attempt to retro-bridge the gap of 23rd centurey technology with the 60′s visoin of the future. I think when we see it on the big screen everyone will be very happy.
I’m not too worried bput canon either. I grew up on star trek, but if there is a timeline conflict- well… the romulans AND spcok have caused it by coming back in time!! Does it make either wrong?
As a star trek fan I just hope they keep to the IDEALS of kirk, spock, and mcCoy that made the show a phenomenon are carried through

551. BK613 - November 19, 2008

514
If I were to use one word to describe Kirk it would be “polymath.” If I were to use two it would be “Renaissance Man.” Or at least Starfleet’s version of one.

And perhaps that is why he is so difficult to peg down for some. Because he is physically fit, good-looking and “apparently” successful with the ladies, people can easily overlook that he also an intellectual. Smart, well-educated, with a passion for history.

552. sean - November 19, 2008

#544

That’s definitely a Starfleet delta. Good eye!

553. JB - November 19, 2008

Do we know how Kirk goes from being a cadet to CO? We clearly see him as both in the trailer. I know he was supposed to have risen through the ranks quickly, but…! And is Kirk shown as a cadet when Chekov is already a commissioned officer?

554. thorsten - November 19, 2008

All I ask is a tall ship
and a star to steer it by”.
You could feel the wind at your back in those days.
The sounds of the sea beneath you.
Even if you take away the wind and the water,
it’s still the same.
The ship is yours.
You can feel her.
And the stars are still there, Bones.

Jim Kirk around stardate 4729.4.

555. Xai, (Go Hawkeyes!) - November 19, 2008

I see nothing at all wrong with this universe’s Enterprise NCC-1701 being built in Iowa.

Note the “Built with pride in Iowa” sticker near the end of the nacelle.

556. Odkin - November 19, 2008

Poor Engineer “Redshirt” Olsen.
We’ll miss him.

557. Akaranger - November 19, 2008

Ok I say it once and I say it again this Movie will change the franchise to a point were there is No man as Gone Before, Also they should consider to do a Star Trek Generation 3 so that way people can have somthing in the 25th century as well were No one as Gone Before and leave the TOS crew for the movies

558. ali - November 19, 2008

ok, so as JJ notes, there are scenes in SF, surely the ship building

559. Orb of the Emissary - November 19, 2008

AWESOME!

560. OneBuckFilms - November 19, 2008

558 – Don’t forget Starfleet Academy and Starfleet Command.

561. Everyday_Ponn_far - November 19, 2008

Wait a minute… this is a time travel movie… so the canon violation may not be a violation at all but as a result of Old Spock changing the past, like, getting Kirk to me Pike before his promotion, and meeting Romulans early on as a result of Nero’s time travel.

Maybe Spock was aware when in time Nero went and followed him to try to stop him, and his best chance was to help kirk and the crew get their assignments early\

There just might be hope for this

562. JB - November 19, 2008

458 & 497 – Good observations and comments on Kirk’s character. I would love to hear Bob Orci comment on your posts if he’s reading.

563. 24th Century Rockstar - November 19, 2008

#523 – Wow.

Yeah, I think canon is supposed to be there to INCITE the imagination not the other way around – as long as the source material is respected over all – and fans shouldn’t crutch on it TOO much or it may end up doing the opposite of what it’s meant to and actually DRAIN the possibilities out of storytelling in a kind of walking-on-eggshells effect.

I’ll refrain from making religious comparisons to the hard-line canonista approach and religious zealotry (those fans KILL each other over their favorite franchise!)

But I WILL be so bold as to submit my belief that the canon exists as a framework and not the finished piece itself.

- 24th CRS!

564. EdDR - November 19, 2008

I wouldn’t worry about the size of the quarry. Some of the areas of the Earth could still be devasted by WW III. Yes there are corn fields in Bakersfield, and cotton, and grapes, and other forms of crops in California. And the shipyard is near SF, not in SF, yet it could still have the title StarFleet SF shipyards.
The top of the Corvette up and then down does bother me, but it can be corrected through the computer. There still is time before May 2009. Made in Iowa, made in SF, made in china – who cares– the world is unified by then.
And since this is a time events correction film – nothing really is set in stone – it just means that EVENTS HAVE TO BE CORRECTED TO SET THE TIME LINE IN THE CORRECT POSITION.
Even alternate universes merging could explain it, changing the time structure of the current Star Trek universe.

565. Orb of the Emissary - November 19, 2008

#542- I enjoyed your thorough viewpoints on the “CANON ALERTS”. I feel a little better now about the movie :-)

566. trfnotos - November 19, 2008

507
Again in the car chase scene with boy Kirk if you look at the sky line you see the Starfleet ship yard in the hazey distance unlees Kirk is now growing up in Ca it’s Iowa.

567. BK613 - November 19, 2008

528
partly I think because of the lack of threading in this forum. would that this was a regular format like Usenet or Slashdot where responses to comments aren’t so dang difficult to track down and some semblance of a conversation can occur. .

yet IMO here is the best, unbiased synthesis of the available info. so here i read and post, frustrating as it can be sometimes.

568. Neil - November 19, 2008

I really should be wearing a flame-retardant suit before I post this, but…weren’t we told that things in the trailer were out of sequence compared to where they were in the movie?

What if the BoyKirk driving scene happens further along in the film, in such a way that makes it clear we’re in an alternate timeline?

In fact, if you throw the scenes from the trailer into a big Yahtzee cup, there are several different storylines possible here.

569. trfnotos - November 19, 2008

unless^

570. Butters - November 19, 2008

186: That big bald alien looks vaguely like Morn from DS9. Maybe its one of his species? Memory Alpha says he’s Lurian. So maybe its a nice little nod to DS9.

Just a thought.

571. John from Cincinnati - November 19, 2008

558.

Or the destruction of San Francisco.

572. BK613 - November 19, 2008

567
The car chase scene is obviously two chunks of time pieced together for the trailer (top up and top down.) The motorcycle scenes can equally be patched together for the trailer. Because those large objects (which could be anything from mega grain elevators mega cities) do not appear in the shots of Kirk riding up to the ship. So some time in Iowa on the bike, some time in California.

573. Brad hansen - November 19, 2008

great work and analysis.

574. Green-Blooded-Bastard - November 19, 2008

A lot of hard work went into this, so thanks. Explains a lot as well.

575. Donn - November 19, 2008

The structures in the backgrounds of both the ‘Vette scene and the Enterprise construction scene sure look the same to me, telling me that we’re in roughly the same place. Big E built in Iowa.

Not to mention the fact that all accounts of the preview footage place the bar scene in Iowa, and the shot of E right after that scene.

576. Neil - November 19, 2008

I guess what I’m suggesting in #568 above is that maybe the film starts with some canon-friendly material, then something happens to the timeline and we start over.

For example – in the trailer, we apparently see the birth of Kirk, and also the infant Spock in a blanket beside his mother. I haven’t seen any evidence that the birth scenes happen at the beginning of the movie.

Am I way off base here?

577. BK613 - November 19, 2008

In 572
I was referencing
566

578. trfnotos - November 19, 2008

572
Yeah Except older kirk passes thoughs same exact shapes on his motorcycle on his way to look at the Enterprise under construction. And if you look the shapes all match the close up shot of the Shipyard.

579. Spock's Brain - November 19, 2008

564. EdDR “The top of the Corvette up and then down does bother me, but it can be corrected through the computer. There still is time before May 2009.”

Everybody check this out. The film is FINISHED. Editing is done. The “errors” and “canon violations” y’all found or think you found in the trailer will be explained when you see the movie.

580. John from Cincinnati - November 19, 2008

***SPOILER ALERT***

I just got this off spytrailer.com, evidently there’s another few seconds to the trailer and it’s of the last moment of the movie and goes like this:

Camera – pans to shower. Inside you see a figure, out walks William Shatner and he puts on a robe. Camera follows as he walks into another room. In the room is Leonard Nimoy in bed as older Spock.

Kirk: “What ya doing?”

Spock: sleepy. sits up and says “I just had the most fascinating dream”.

581. montreal paul - November 19, 2008

564. EdDR “The top of the Corvette up and then down does bother me, but it can be corrected through the computer. There still is time before May 2009.”

It’s not a continuity error.. chances are he probably just released the convertible locking clamps and with the speed he was travelling probably ripped it off. MAybe in an attempt to knock it into the way of the cop. We did not see the entire scene.. just cut together parts of it.

582. Neil - November 19, 2008

581
Except that there’s no cop visible in the “roof up” sequence.
And you can see a considerable amount of road behind BoyKirk. Go frame-by-frame in the “roof up” sequence as he makes the hard right turn. No cop.

583. Rastaman - November 19, 2008

Wow, so much for me trying to avoid spoilers, but that was EXCELLENT!

Thank you.

584. sean - November 19, 2008

564. EdDR “The top of the Corvette up and then down does bother me, but it can be corrected through the computer.”

The trailer isn’t linear. It’s chopped up for time. We don’t see the entire chase sequence, so it’s likely that at some point he cuts the top loose.

585. trfnotos - November 19, 2008

575.
YUP.. Looks like it.

586. montreal paul - November 19, 2008

582… like I said.. we DIDN’T see the entire scene… but it isn’t a continuity error. it was all cut together for the trailer…

587. Neil - November 19, 2008

#586
I know that because there isn’t threading, it’s difficult to track who said what, but I never suggested it was a continuity error. Although a few hundred posts ago, I suggested that maybe the “roof up” and “roof down” sequences could be from different car trips. Maybe even different drivers.

588. Izzy_Ryder - November 19, 2008

well heres my take on canon…

we’re looking at this as a TOS film revolving around the TOS characters, as a prequel to TOS, and thus we believe that everything has to match the back story told in the series…

however, the DS9 episode Trials and Tribble-ations was a DS9 Episode, which hadnt happened when TOS had, even though it took place in that era it was still a DS9 episode with a couple of the DS9 crew..

they probably changed the future of TOS just by being there, like the butterfly effect, but as far as we’re concerned it makes no difference to us.

so, maybe this isnt a prequel so much as a sequel, more as if its setting is the “Present” rather than the past, this film doesnt have to play out the way that the back story in TOS did, because Nero hadnt gone back in time during TOS

what if the main character is Elder Spock and it was told from his point of view? then it would be a sequel instead of a prequel and any changes he made wouldnt neccessarily match what happened in the series, cause hes create a new timeline thats scewed off from the original like Back To The Future

if this is the case, then it all makes perfect sense to me, its not canon in regards to the series but it IS canon as far as the whole franchise goes

now if this is the case, does it replace the original or juxtapose it? are there now two official timelines or does it just override the original facts?

one things for sure, the entries for Finnegan and Farrugut in the Star Trek Encyclopedia are gonna be interesting :D

589. Wilson7777 - November 19, 2008

Hey peeps.

Look at the picture where Kirk is riding his bike to the Enterprise construction site. Zoom in near the top. There looks like a huge building in the background, but to the left of it, it looks like part of a bridge…..Golden Gate Bridge? Which is right near Starfleet Command.

Just guessing here….not sure if anyone noticed that or not.

590. Wilson7777 - November 19, 2008

Another thought after watching that sequence again. Him driving his bike is “cut” so perhaps in one scene he is just riding down a dirt road in Iowa. Then when he is at the Academy in San Fran, the next part shows on still on a bike, but in SF watching the Enterprise being built.

591. trfnotos - November 19, 2008

589
Or a Construction Crane…

592. BK613 - November 19, 2008

578
I respectfully disagree.
At 0:10 (see the first screen cap above) you can see one of them, off on the horizon, reaching high into the clouds.
At 0:19, at the very last of the shot where you get the first look at the “quarry,” you can see all three of them, two to the far left of the shot, one to the far right of the shot. And still way off on the horizon.
In the bike shots from 0:51-0:52, these objects appear much closer but the atmospheric haze makes them still seem far away. And very tall.

I see nothing in the shots of the shipyard that match the shapes nor imply the height shown.

IMO they are 23rd century cities.

593. Neil - November 19, 2008

#590
Yeah, that’s been getting tossed about all day. For all we know, the scenes are shown in reverse order in the trailer. Maybe he’s looking at the ship in SF one day, and riding down a dirt road past a crop of some kind a few days later.

I’m starting to think more and more that the trailer isn’t in any kind of sequence; or at least the sequence it’s in is misleading.

594. trfnotos - November 19, 2008

Yeah you guys are right .. Heck for all we know he could be riding in the wonderful Land of OZ…. :)

595. Randall - November 19, 2008

#545 ByGeorge:

Again, VERY well said. I’ve honestly gotten the feeling that people–be it screenwriters to the films, the people who’ve written novels (though I confess, I’ve read very few) and perhaps these guys, Orci, et al.–somehow subconsciously view Kirk as almost a blank slate character that they could writer over and re-write as they please. As though he’s just a one-dimensional “hero” figure that can be molded almost any old way. Of course they stick to a certain set of parameters (usually) but they always seem to take a lot more license with Kirk than they ever would with Spock… or even McCoy–who remained McCoy throughout even the films–unchanged and dead on as he was in the original series.

I don’t know why this is. I suspect at times it’s been because each writer KNOWS that Kirk is the center of Star Trek, and he or she then somehow feels they can (or need to) tailor Kirk as they see fit—in order to further their own story. Sometimes I honestly think it’s just the poor storytelling skills of some writers, and their innate geekiness/nerdiness (let’s face it—some of the people writing novels and even some of the films have been just that) which prevents them from *understanding* a character like Kirk.

See… I think that’s got a lot to do with it. Spock is a classic sci-fi character…. he’s the human/alien mix. Man of two worlds. Torn in half. Yeah, he has his echoes in ordinary literature and other kinds of media.. but in sci-fi, that’s one of the old hats—the alien who has to be human too. In Spock, Roddenberry and Nimoy simply went way beyond the stock feel of the character, and brought him to life in a new way. McCoy—he’s the irascible doctor, the big humanitarian… another stock kind of character, who shows up not just in sci-fi but in westerns (one of Star Trek’s true basic seminal influences)… he’s also the ordinary guy, speaking for all of us. The guy who doesn’t quite fit into all this futuristic nonsense. Scotty, the others—they almost barely register as characters and weren’t fleshed out until later. But basically… all of these are simple for a nerdy sci-fi writer to get his or her head around.

But Kirk…. Kirk they THINK they get… but don’t. See, Roddenberry, on the one hand, was no nerd, for all his weird and airy-fairy later idealisms. (Not that I wholly disapprove of some of what he stood for). He was a WWII bomber pilot (so was my father, in fact) and had worked his way up through a business system in early TV that was far less open to inward-looking nerds than it surely is today. Roddenberry was an old fashioned kind of man in a sense, that still exists today, but isn’t as numerous as he once was.

Anyway, Roddenberry created these characters that were basically flat boards to draw on. Spock more than any other was eventually made to leap up into something closer to three dimensions largely because of some of the writers in the original series and because of Nimoy. Usually sci-fi characters don’t get anywhere near that… they’re flat. Certainly all the others were flat—even McCoy. And flat characters invite re-shaping. Writers come along and spice them how they feel fit. So what do we know about Sulu? He’s a bad ass in some ways. And a cool-headed character…. a leader-in-training. That’s about it. You can play a lot with a character like that… do things with him. They were all basically like that, except Spock.

And Kirk. But the later writers didn’t realize that. I’m sure they didn’t think of Kirk that way, not consciously… but they didn’t think the right way about him either. Kirk isn’t flat. He hasn’t got the well-imagined dimensions of Spock, but then neither is Kirk the torn figure that Spock is. But Kirk had depth.

But all some writers could see, I think, later, was Kirk the hero. Kirk as a stock sci-fi ship captain. A slate to be drawn on. And nobody stopped them or instructed them… and you notice, if you look at these people—they write very poor adult characters, really. Their characters are adolescent at best—nerdy-teenagers-grown-into-adulthood-but-only-physically… and they haven’t really got any grasp of what a grown up man is… they’re still kids inside of old bodies. And uncool kids at that.

Not all of this is bad… but when applied to Kirk it is. Maybe they want to desperately BE Kirk but at the same time resent him because they know they can’t be him–and can’t understand him really. So they write him as they think he would be. And it fails each time. Sometimes in the films it worked in a way because Kirk was just there as the central hero figure–but again there was never anything beyond that. In Generations you get a Kirk who isn’t Kirk at all. He’s someone’s ridiculous idea of what Kirk would be in an older age. But Kirk would never have become that—and I always suspected there was too much Shatner in that Kirk. As I say, I think Shatner is part of the problem here—that even HE never really had a grasp of who Kirk really was, and so sometimes he played him as written, and sometimes if as written Kirk was nearly a cipher, (as he was in Generations) he just ended up playing him as Shatner in a uniform. So maybe the writers aren’t wholly to blame.

But this film… what worries me is that after decades of this, no one gets who Kirk is… and maybe you just have a new set of nerdy guys creating this thing, and sure—they can do it well because they know all the tricks, and they probably know better ones than the guys who made the last bunch of Star Trek films—going back quite a ways really. But they’re still just tricks, maybe. I don’t know… I have to see the film first to be sure, and I’m keeping an open mind about that. But Kirk as a character—what I’ve seen so far doesn’t reassure me. It depresses me a little in fact. We need heroes like Kirk… but they’re a dying breed because no one understands how to WRITE them anymore. Because very few writers have any of the “real” Kirk IN them anymore.

596. Rat Boy - November 19, 2008

“I think you are Kirk in the movie.”

I’M…CAPTAIN KIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRK!

597. trfnotos - November 19, 2008

592
SEEM being the operative word. By the way, my 594 was sarcasm.

598. Kirk's Girdle - November 19, 2008

Re: Shia’s drinking.

I’m not sure how Shia evaded prosecution just because someone else hit him. You don’t actually have to be in an accident to be arrested for drunk driving. In most of the country, law enforcment has zero tolerance for that kind of behavior, but then again, most of us don’t live in LA.

599. trfnotos - November 19, 2008

Although mabe kid Kirk stole his uncles car and was trying to drive to Starfleet to join up. You know how kids are..:)

600. boborci - November 19, 2008

598. Kirk’s Girdle – November 19, 2008

Perhaps he evaded prosecution because he wasn’t drunk.

601. Canonites......Exterminate - November 19, 2008

526
Mr Orci

Love the sound of cowboys and ailens, could that be the workings for Trek XII.

Just gotta say that I unlike alot of folk on here I do not belive that, to make a Star Trek film you have to watch every episode and follow the cannon inch by inch. I’m glad the way the new film is starting to look. Cancelled my holiday to the canarie islands so I can see it on opening day (otherwise they would of been harry carry committed in Play del Ingles).

Wish everyone would take a chill pill. I would laugh my head off if we discovered that the big E was built in Salford England.

602. LoyalStarTrekFans - November 19, 2008

565, I’m glad I could help. I have a middle ground viewpoint regarding canon: it should be respected as much as possible and major events (i.e. the date the Federation was founded, etc.) should be kept but writers/producers should not be afraid to change minor events (i.e. the Kirk and Pike situation) to help their story.

To all those who say this film is an “alternate reality” or some other nonsense: this is supposed to be the “origin story” to the characters we know and love and is supposed to be the same universe. Yes some things will change, other things won’t. Change can be good. Let’s all give this movie a chance as we need a huge blockbuster for Star Trek to survive. This “alternate reality” talk reminds me of the ENT debates regarding where that show fit into the Star Trek universe. Guess what, it’s the same universe we all know and love. Some things changed and some didn’t. The same will happen with this film. I look forward to the next chapter of Star Trek in May 2009. You should too or Trekkies will have the same place in society as B5 fans; a small group (and getting smaller every day) of fans who love a dead franchise. This film will prevent that. That’s the stakes. This film MUST be a success!

603. Tangent - November 19, 2008

The “oribital sky dive” looks like it was taken straight from Halo :P

604. trfnotos - November 19, 2008

601
That’d would be funny, but then every one would talk with an English accent.. ;) I think if I were you I’d see it after my Canarie trip…

605. Brian Matthews - November 19, 2008

I think this movie is going to be the ultimate test of whether the fictional characters of Kirk, Spock, McCoy and the rest are truly timeless creations, or whether their popularity is due to the efforts of those whom portrayed them. My feeling is that this movie will prove that it doesn’t matter who plays the characters. My seat is buckled up, so…

606. Enterprise - November 19, 2008

I still think V remake when I see that hanger shot.

607. Sparks Brain - November 19, 2008

Vette goes over cliff = Kirk can’t drive stick.

608. Starship Conductor - November 19, 2008

IOWA? SAN FRANCISCO? – - – - HA!
What about the Budweiser Bottling Plant in Van Nuys, Calif.! LOL!

609. Lord Garth, Formerly of Izar - November 19, 2008

So it looks like my analysis of the plot of the film from the trailer post is quite dead on. I want another gold star

610. Kirk's Girdle - November 19, 2008

Re; Boborci

Now, THAT is a valid legal argument !

I vaguely recall mention of him drinking prior to the incident, but didn’t immerse myself in the facts of the case.

611. Capt. Fred - November 19, 2008

Why does Pike look OMG OLD

612. Kirk's Girdle - November 19, 2008

re 606

Yep, I still remember the Visitors, with their little sorta-half-swastika insignias on their red jumpers, disembarking their shuttles.

613. BK613 - November 19, 2008

597
seeing is believing: go look at the trailer at the indicated times. And I lol’d at your Oz statement.

603
Hmm
HALO = High Altitude Low Opening jump, a combat technique that the army has been using since the 1960s

614. amok time - November 19, 2008

I think I’ve got it!!

PLOT: Nero wishes to visit vengeance upon the Vulcans for exiling a viscious warlike sect who would not embrace kohlinar – That sect in exile would become the Romulans. Nero’s plan is to wipe the Vulcans out of existence. When Nero arrives in the late 22nd century he is detected by the U.S.S. Kelvin which is destroyed in the battle.
The “out of tiime” death of George Sanuel Kirk just days before the birth of his son changes the timeline of Jame T Kirk’s upbringing, his entry to starfeet, what happens to Chrisopher Pike… all of it…
Spock- having travelled back in time to thwart Nero cannot resurrect the original timeline(or does he?) But in order to save the future he must ensure that Jame T Kirk becomes captain of Enterprise.

There… That answers all the discrepancies of CANON!!!

615. Kirk's Girdle - November 19, 2008

Re; 611, because Greenwood has undigested meat in his bowels that is older than Yelchin. It’s all a matter of perspective.

616. Kirk's Girdle - November 19, 2008

Generations actually had a partially filmed scene that involved Kirk doing a sub-orbital jump in a suit that actually had heat shield tiles on it. Part of the male menopause subplot.

617. Kirk's Girdle - November 19, 2008

Re: 614. If he wanted to stop the exile of the Romulans, he was off by about a thousand years, no?

618. Xai - November 19, 2008

IOWA.

We only build the finest starships here and raise the best men and women to command them.

I know it’s a trailer, but if that construction shot was in Frisco, surely you’d see an identifying landmark to place it for the viewer. The preceding shot of Kirk on the bike clearly showed the “towers” in the distance that we saw early in the trailer. It’s all circumstantial, but recall that other things are changed here too. Maybe California finally fell into the ocean by this time in this universe. Good bye San Fran.

619. Gorandius1256 - November 19, 2008

About the Ship being built in Iowa:

I believe the Enterprise was Built in San Fransisco SHIP YARDS. How do we know that SFSY doesn’t have yards elsewhere? For all we know, it could be San Fransisco Ship Yards Des Moines Division or something.

620. Xai - November 19, 2008

Or maybe THIS IS the original and Spock Prime goes Universal Time surfing to protect the divergence where his and Shat-Kirk’s universe come into being.

Yea……

621. CitadelTrekker - November 19, 2008

Here’s my two cents.

Nero and Romulan buddies come from the post Nemesis 24th/25th century to the 23rd century to reak havoc on the timeline b/c their buddy Shinzon got creamed and now the Romulans are looking to get cozy with the UFP and Klingon Empire and they’re pissed. Spock, still on romulus gets wind of it, gets a fancy time shuttle and goes back to stop him.

The timeline as we know it gets all goofed up, and JJ and his crew take a few movies and a tv series to fix everything back to normal so we all get that wonderful feeling of wondering what’s going to happen and in the end get our old timeline back after a fantastic ride….

or… maybe we get a peak at mutiple timelines in the movie an see not only this new E but our legendary E as well and even other variants.

I’ve been a Trekker since I was six and I love Trek’s history and the canon, but I think that the movie will ultimatley respect the canon and still be fresh enough to attract new fans and keep thsoe of us who could find our way around in the event we actually beamed aboard the E. Like it’s been said Kirk driving a stick Corvette not a problem. Driving a 1930′s Caddy would be way different that a 2nd generation 60′s Corvette, especially when its and alien Caddy. Keep an open mind, we are dealing with time here and anything can happen. GO SEE THE MOVIE! TREK NEEDS US!

And maybe all the Shat’s complaining about not being in the movie is really just to hide the fact he is in the movie= clever :)

622. jason - November 19, 2008

He is not as hot as the original Pike (Jeffrey Hunter) but the new Kirk tefinitely is. Ev erybody be cool – I’m thrilled to have ST back in any form. Please don’t start flaming me…

623. montreal paul - November 19, 2008

Anything I have read says that the Enterprise was built at the San Fransisco Shipyards…. who’s to say there is not a San Fransisco Shipyards in Iowa? There is actually a Montreal shipyards in Levis, Quebec.

624. mikko - November 19, 2008

I don’t care much about strictly adhering to canon.

But, just for the hell of it, let’s talk Enterprise construction location.

Firstly, nowhere is it said where the 1701 was built or commissioned or anything else. What we’re all working with is the dedication plaque from TOS.

With THAT in mind, let’s talk dedication plaques for a moment.

I refer everyone interested to the following:
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Dedication_plaque_comparison

Given that:
a) In the TOS and TOS-film era, the format of the dedication plaques changes. On some plaques, no location is given at all.
b) Even Constitution-class dedication plaques are inconsistent in format: the Defiant (NCC-1764) plaque in ‘In A Mirror, Darkly’ say ‘Constitution Class’ and the Enterprise 1701 says ‘Starship Class’.
c) It seems unlikely that the Enterprise would have been built in San Francisco proper, anyway; I imagine that they would not have heavy construction with potentially hazardous materials in the midst of a population center.

One can infer that, despite the format of LATER dedication plaques, it may not be the same in this case. And, that:
a’) We don’t necessarily know what ‘San Francisco, Calif.’ actually refers to!
b’) Again, we don’t necessarily know what ‘San Francisco, Calif.’ actually refers to!
c’) it seems likely that, despite primary construction elsewhere, some aspect of the Enterprise dedication of commissioning would have taken place in San Francisco. If we assume Enterprise to be the flagship, then it would be logical for it to be subject of a special ‘happening’ at the Star Fleet headquarters, would it not?

In short: there’s nothing wrong with Enterprise 1701 being built in Iowa, if something else related to the new starship transpired in San Francisco — at least from the information we can ascertain.

In shorter: Pipe down! You don’t have all the facts; none of us do.

625. AJ - November 19, 2008

Maybe SF fell into the sea.

Great town, but fated to go sooner rather than later ;-).

Makes as much sense as the Grand Canyon of Iowa.

626. mikko - November 19, 2008

#623:

Can I add your point as (d) in my posting (#624)? It’s a fantastic additional strike against the assumptions being made here.

627. OneBuckFilms - November 19, 2008

611 – It is possible, especially considering how vast the Romulan ship is, that Spock travelled WITH Nero’s vessel back to the 23rd Century, and that Nero was driven back from his goals in his encounter with the Kelvin.

Taken out of action for a few years, he and his “crew” escape from being Klingon prisoners, and renew their plans.

A number of Starfleet ships, including the newly commissioned Enterprise under Pike, is rushed into action for an emergency on Vulcan, with Kirk and crew-to-be on board …

628. Xai - November 19, 2008

#624 Mikko

Let me be short too. I don’t know who you are yelling at to pipe down. It’s not your place to tell anyone here that.

. Maybe IDENTIFY the person you are talking to. If it’s me, my comment was made in jest, although I have no problem with A starship being built here in this movie. Other bits of canon are bent in this movie (it seems), this one may be too. Or perhaps it’s like #619 suggested. We’ll wait and see.

AJ.

I’ve been to SF.. hate to see it drown… flippant comment.

Grand Canyon of Iowa?… Let’s see what a few hundred years brings. Iowa has it’s own great lakes. Look it up, or goggle “okoboji”

629. wkiryn - November 19, 2008

God I hate fan wanking

630. The Gorn Identity - November 19, 2008

To #.624 Mikko…

I applaud you for your research regarding those starship dedication plaques. No where on the NCC-1701 plaque does it state that the Enterprise was assembled in San Fran. It merely states “San Francisco, Calif”, which could be a reference to Starfleet Headquarters.

631. FloridaTrekBoi - November 19, 2008

San Francisco? Iowa? I think everyone’s missing the really important question about the building of the E…

How the hell is that thing getting into orbit?!

632. Yspano - November 19, 2008

@ 614
Nero’s timeship’s temporal core blows up in the end after Kirk and the Enterprise crew, with the help of Spock from the future, render Nero’s warship vulnerable to conventional weapons. Before his final doom, Nero realizes that he is the anomalous element in all of his schemes to restore the Romulan people to glory and bring back his family, whom he had inadvertently killed through temporal incursion. The destruction of his ship restores the original timeline. The final scene shows Nero in his estate on Romulus pouring over documents detailing some sophisticated project. We hear his wife beckon him to join her for breakfast. Nero gets up and walks to the dining room. The camera pans to Nero’s vacated workstation and reveals the schematic of Nero’s timeship, which in this corrected timeline, has not yet been built. Fade to black. Roll credits.

633. The Gorn Identity - November 19, 2008

#631, maybe NCC-1701 is atmosphere capable like the NX-01?

634. Booger - November 19, 2008

If the timeline is changed at any point for TOS then it is changed for TNG also. any good sci- fi fan knows this.

635. HT - November 19, 2008

How does Spock prime know that the time line has changed such that he needs to go back in time to repair it? Does Guinan advise him?

636. LostonNCC1701 - November 19, 2008

Here’s what I think the storyline of the movie is (with varying degrees of seriousness):

In the wake of Nemesis, the Federation (and, to a lesser extent, the Klingons) and the Romulans got into a better relationship. Not a alliance by any means, but certainly better than it ever has been. There have even been some calls for a movement for reconciliation with the Vulcans. There are some violently against this, led by Nero. Nero, along with other radicals and a few military men, were eventually captured by the Klingons and put on Rura Penthe. Eventually, however, he escaped and with his fellow Romulan extremists (who can easily be identified because of their prison-issue tattoos and shaved heads) hijacked a new and horrible weapons ship that is capable of traveling through time and destroying an entire planet. Spock found out about this and “borrowed” (since Vulcans don’t steal) a Federation prototype time-ship to follow him into the past. (most of this would be off-screen or in the prequel comic book that will come out, I’d think)

Nero realizes that since he will have no supplies he needs to change the past with as little effort as possible. To simply blow up Vulcan would possibly bring in too much trouble, but to go back to the Romulan-Earth War or a similar point in time would be too likely to change the timeline so much that his initial quest becomes irrelevant. So he decides to do the easy thing: Kill James T. Kirk before he is even freaking born.

So we go to the USS Kelvin in the year 2233ish, investigating some weird anomalies (including the disappearance and believed destruction of 47 Klingon ships!). It is under the command of Captain Robau, with first officer George Kirk. Just then, Nero’s ship attacks. Caught completely by surprise, the opening volleys of the “battle” lead to the Captain dead and George in Command. He orders all non-essential personnel- including his pregnant wife- to abandon ship not in the escape pods but by using the Shuttlecraft, leaving many of them severely overcrowded. During the escape, some of the crew use their craft to cover the extremely-heavily damaged Kelvin on a kamikaze attack on the Romulans. The Kelvin is further aided by a mysterious ship (Spock’s timeship). It works, but the stress causes Mrs. Kirk to give birth prematurely as her medical shuttle goes into warp to escape. The Romulan ship, although still operational, is badly damaged and escapes through time to safety (some point in time where they can just go orbit some random moon and do some repairs and get ready for their next attempt at destroying the Federation). We’d then see the Time-ship go through time too, probably going ahead to check to see what this has changed.

We’d then go through a short vignette of Kirk and Spock growing up. Spock has some pressures growing up with being Half-Vulcan, Half-Human, but Kirk’s childhood is more interesting. His mother either died or left him with his idiot Uncle, who Kirk despises and proceeds to aggravate by driving his antique car into the future site of a Starfleet Shipyard. It is never stated or shown that Kirk was on Tarsus, but it is never directly denied either. One thing that changes though is that because of his different upbringing, he never feels obligated to join Starfleet, instead hanging around Iowa causing trouble until one day he enters a bar being frequented by new Academy recruits visiting the shipyard. He gets into a barfight after hitting on Uhura and is then accosted by the famed Captain Christopher Pike of the being-built USS Enterprise. Pike talks Kirk into joining Starfleet.

Kirk’s time at the academy is unorthodox. While the Axanar mission, Finnegan, John Gill, Ben Finney and Gary Mitchell aren’t seen or mentioned, they aren’t directly denied either. However, Kirk does cause trouble in the academy: He hires a Orion Hooker, he cheats at the Kobayashi Maru and is only saved from expulsion when someone points out that he has shown great original thinking. But still, when first assignments are handed out, he’s left on the ground.

Bones is able to sneak Jim up to the Enterprise, under Captain Pike and his first officer, Spock. The Enterprise has gone through a heavy refit. They get a message in from Vulcan about “lightning storms”, causing Kirk to panic about a Romulan attack. He’s right, and when they arrive above Romulus the Enterprise finds a good chunk of the fleet blown to bits and the Romulan ship drilling into the planet itself. Pike gets a message from Nero asking for a meeting, and since there are transporter problems he goes there using a shuttle, out of which he has Kirk, Sulu and Olsen jump out of to try and disable the drilling.

Meanwhile, Spock leaves to go down and help with the evacuation. Kirk and Sulu are able to badly damage the drill, but they are too late and the anomaly black-hole is sent into the planet. Kirk and Sulu are then beamed back up, soon to be joined by Captain Spock. Old Spock arrives in his ship and is able to stop the black hole, but Vulcan has been badly damaged and many are dead. It appears to only be a hollow victory, as the Romulans could still easily try again. The Enterprise runs like hell. All the turmoil boils over inside of Spock (Vulcan? Human? Neither? Both?) and he breaks down and throws Jimbo onto a ice planet.

Meanwhile, on the Romulan ship of DOOOOOOOOM, Nero decides not to kill Pike, because why do that when he can torment Pike with information FROM THE FUTURE! Yes, you will be assassinated in Dallas… err.. wait… I mean, you will be confined into a black box for your entire life and will only be able to answer “yes” and “no” to every question. MWAHAHAHAHAHA!

On the Ice Planet, Jim finds himself wandering aimlessly, no doubt cursing about the stupid Vulcan and the stupid emotions he shouldn’t even have. Eventually, he will begin singing “Mr. Tambourine Man”, causing a monster shockingly like the one in Cloverfield to become enraged. Thankfully, old Spock shows up to save his ass. Because that’s how old Spock rolls. After a little bit of exhibition in which Old Spock proves that he is, indeed, Spock, and Old Spock drops some zen, they go and see the last dude to get stranded on this Ice Planet: Montgomery Scott.

Scotty was dropped on the Ice Planet because he dematerialized Porthos VI. Not the Planet, the Beagle belonging to Admiral Archer. Old Spock totally breaks the Temporal Directive, makes everyone smile, tells Kirk to piss Young Spock off and get command of the Enterprise and then sends them on their way with a “Live Long and Prosper”. The crowd cheers.

Kirk then goes to the bridge, and proceeds to really piss off Young Spock. Then, using the Starfleet regulation, he is able to become Captain. Kirk then announces that Scotty is now Chief Engineer, and tells everyone that from now on, he is the biggest badass in the Galaxy. He does this by putting on the Golden Shirt of Awesome. He then hears that the Romulans are doing repairs in a white nebula, probably getting ready to blow up Vulcan again.But now that James T. Kirk is in command, no force in the universe can stop the USS Enterprise. Nothing! NOTHING!

So, the Enterprise goes one-on-one, mano-a-mano with the Romulan Ship. Assisting in the battle, again, is Old Spock’s ship. Kirk beams over to the Romulan ship, frees Captain Pike (who then beams over back to the Enterprise, which he still is technically in command of), and then fights Nero hand to hand. Nero makes the foolish mistake of cutting Kirk’s new golden shirt, making him very angry and unbeatable in hand-to-hand combat. Kirk then proceeds to make Nero launch the black hole things INTO THE SHIP ITSELF. He then beams out as the Romulan Ship is literally absorbed into itself. Nero, saddened, begins to fiddle, then notices that Old Spock’s ship is still out there. Surmising who it really is, he begins to gun for that. Kirk (Pike is in Sick Bay) orders the Enterprise to risk getting caught in the Romulan Ship’s event horizon to protect the ship. Needless to say, they save it (because Spock dying again doing anything less than a heroic sacrifice that saves the entire universe would be cop-out). The Enterprise and the Time-Ship race away just in time (as always). Old Spock then sends a message to the Enterprise, although only Kirk and Scotty know who it is since Spock’s voice is so different in his old age. The message: “Jim, it has been an honor serving with you one last time. Live Long and Prosper. Thank You.”, he’ll then time-ship out of there.

In the aftermath (with the Enterprise being repaired in space dock), Pike tells Kirk he has exceeded even his Father, and that he is proud that the Enterprise will next be commanded by such a great leader. Pike himself says he intends to move on, he was in line for a promotion anyway. Spock, fully realizing that he had let his emotions get the best of him, thanks Kirk for what he has done, but asks him how he knew about the regulation to get him removed from command. Kirk says something along the lines that it was something he learned from a “new friend”. He then tells everyone to buckle up, the Enterprise is a ship for exploration, and there is a ton out there to explore. We then get Pine doing the famous “Space, the Final Frontier” narration. Only one difference: When he’s done, Spock tells him that those are fine words. Kirk then says the final lines of the first TOS episode (“Where No Man Has Gone Before”): ” I believe there’s some hope for you after all, Mr. Spock. ”

Warp!

637. BK613 - November 19, 2008

631
If this were the ST Universe prime, the one that everything we know has taken place up to this movie, then it would be no problem. On the Federation world Ardana, anti-gravity is used to sustain an entire city, Stratos, in the sky.

So if the Federation has the technology to keep such a massive structure aloft, then lifting a puny (in comparison) starship out of the atmosphere would be no big deal, really.

638. AMOK TIME - November 19, 2008

#617
You would be correct if he was trying to stop the exile… but he is not trying to stop the exile, just exact revenge- that’s a different goal no?? He merely chose this century to make sure the technology doesn’t exist to stop him- or so he would think…

BTW… for those with the shipyard in Iowa thing… the sign in front of Kirk looks like it say 1A not IA.

639. LostonNCC1701 - November 19, 2008

My god, that “guess” sure got out of hand.

640. Bill Peters - November 19, 2008

I think that the ship is being built in San Fransico, I think that Kirk just took a trip on route 66…He is an adult in that scene…also I like everything about the trailer!

641. montreal paul - November 19, 2008

BTW … the “A” on the sign is not an “A” … it is the Enterprise emblem. Look closely.

642. Sean4000 - November 19, 2008

I like how Romulan/Reman/Schinzon-like higher ups have awesome ships. First Schinzon’s Scimitar, now Nero’s vessel. A+ for those designs.

643. AMOK TIME - November 19, 2008

I wonder….

DO you think we’ll get a “He’s dead Jim” in this movie?

644. DGill - November 19, 2008

636.

That was actually pretty good. The movie may not follow that sequence exactly, but enough has been revealed to suggest the movie’s backbone.

Two things: I think Pike will die in this film because Kirk is only seen wearing the command stripes once in the trailer. Even when he confronts Nero on the bridge of his ship, he’s still wearing the black cadet shirt, which implies that he will wear the gold tunic at the very end of the film (which would be fitting because this movie is basically Kirk proving his worth).

I’m also wondering whether or not those early reports on TrekMovie were true: did Nimoy get to interact with several of the other actors, including Quinto? That may not be true, but I remember reading that a while ago.

645. falcon - November 19, 2008

To those who wonder about the resolution of HD:

1920 x 1080. That’s full-frame HD.
1440 x 1080 is HDV resolution.
1280 x 720 is “720p” resolution.
720 x 480 is standard-definition TV.

Of course, those are all TV resolutions. Hope that helps.

646. LostonNCC1701 - November 19, 2008

“Two things: I think Pike will die in this film because Kirk is only seen wearing the command stripes once in the trailer. Even when he confronts Nero on the bridge of his ship, he’s still wearing the black cadet shirt, which implies that he will wear the gold tunic at the very end of the film (which would be fitting because this movie is basically Kirk proving his worth).”

I can definitely see your reasoning, but can I point out (about Pike’s live/die thing) that it would make more sense dramatically if Pike is alive to tell Kirk that he did better then his father did (“Your Father saved 800 lives, including yours. I’d like to see you do better.”)?

647. Xai - November 19, 2008

632. Yspano – November 19, 2008
@ 614
“Nero’s timeship’s temporal core blows up in the end after Kirk and the Enterprise crew, with the help of Spock from the future, render Nero’s warship vulnerable to conventional weapons. Before his final doom, Nero realizes that he is the anomalous element in all of his schemes to restore the Romulan people to glory and bring back his family, whom he had inadvertently killed through temporal incursion. The destruction of his ship restores the original timeline. The final scene shows Nero in his estate on Romulus pouring over documents detailing some sophisticated project. We hear his wife beckon him to join her for breakfast. Nero gets up and walks to the dining room. The camera pans to Nero’s vacated workstation and reveals the schematic of Nero’s timeship, which in this corrected timeline, has not yet been built. Fade to black. Roll credits.”

. Zero points. That is essentially the basis of an old Voyager episode. Be original and don’t plagiarize.

648. Anthony Pascale - November 19, 2008

hi guys I am back from Paramount.

If I wasn’t clear on this earlier, let me be 100% Clear….the USS Enterprise in the movie is being built in Iowa. This is not speculation or a guess, it is what it is. Anything above that is in the ‘educated guess’ category is noted as such (and those are very educated guesses). The only reason is to give wiggle room because in over 2 years TrekMovie has never got a ‘spoiler’ wrong, and we dont want to start now.

649. AMOK TIME - November 19, 2008

I think the timeline at the end will not be fully restored, but the future of the federation with the earth/vulcan alliance being its backbone will be preserved- that being the important part. With the characters in their new timeline that will open the door for a NEW 5 year mission.

650. LostonNCC1701 - November 19, 2008

Pascale will not get a spoiler wrong! It’d spoil everything!

651. Yspano - November 19, 2008

@ 647
That was the point.

652. Xai - November 19, 2008

#651

Not well made.

653. Xai - November 19, 2008

Iowa Wins.

654. P Technobabble - November 19, 2008

Hi Bob Orci, if you’re nearby… I remember you folks brought aboard a science advisor — Carolyn Porco — for the film, and I was wondering if she got involved in any discussions about the time-travel stuff that might have affected your plot in any way?

655. Xai - November 19, 2008

A Hawkeye sticker on the bow, an Iowa State Cyclone sticker on starboard and a UNI Panther sticker on the port.

Sorry Drake.

656. Yspano - November 19, 2008

@ 652
*facepalm*

657. LostonNCC1701 - November 19, 2008

Bob Orci, if you are out there, how do you pronounce your last name?

658. voyager - November 19, 2008

I see it as Or-Key

659. Mike - November 19, 2008

If anyone is taking polls about how this all worked out leading up to the release, as a long-time fan of the franchise, I couldn’t be more pleased. I always wanted to see the original look updated, and the results are better and more creative than I dared to hope for. The movie itself may be terrible for all I know, but as a fan I couldn’t ask for more to have been done to revitalize one of my favorite guilty pleasures.

660. Mike - November 19, 2008

Also, the enterprise looks amazing. This might actually be my new favorite version of the ship.

661. Mawazitus - November 19, 2008

Fact: Nero creates a divergent Star Trek timeline when he travels back in time and destroys the USS Kelvin.

This can be used to explain EVERY SINGLE canon violation that we witness in the trailer.

1. Kirk is raised by his evil Uncle in Iowa. He learns to drive a stick-shift.

2. Kirk does not enter the Academy at the same time he originally did.

3. Pike is aware of Kirk earlier than before, possibly due to Kirk’s father’s heroic actions aboard the Kelvin.

4. The Enterprise is not built at the same time as it originally was, is built in Iowa (well, you need a lot of room to build a ship that size, much larger than the Enterprise from the original timeline), and is built with far more advanced technology (due to massive R&D efforts in the years following Nero’s original timeline incursion).

etc. etc. etc.

662. Nero's CD burner - November 19, 2008

@#69. 4 8 15 16 23 42 – November 19, 2008

40 Jay El Jay — “The drill is drilling into Vulcan to attempt to create a black hole.” Is that confirmed? That makes no sense to me. If they want to create a black hole, they’d be far better off attacking Vulcan’s sun….

In the TNG era it said that Romulan ships use a sustained quantum singularity to power their ships (a miniature black hole). Who’s to say someone couldn’t “weapon-ize” that tech and and use it against a planet? We have the technology to create singularities (theoretically) here on Earth in 2008, although any created here would “fizzle” out due to lack of sufficient mass to sustain them. But you’re talking about tech from a future perspective where an alien civilization has harnessed that power and it doesn’t make sense to you? It makes perfect sense to me.

663. Enterprise - November 19, 2008

I think Nero uses the drill to make a space for the Quantum Singularity which he then places in the planet core.

664. Seven of Four - November 19, 2008

Um, you guys worrying that the Star Trek timeline remain intact – it’s a movie. TNG and all other Star Trek still exists. Nothing has happened to it. None of this is real life, you can calm down. Breathe deeply. Kirk, Spock, Picard, Sisko and all the others are still there, on TV and DVD and in books. No matter what happens in this movie.

There, don’t you feel better now? Have some tea, relax. These anxiety attacks you’re having aren’t good for you.

665. Waltski - November 19, 2008

Was the Enterprise being built behind a glass wall? If you look at the construction site you can see light reflections move up and to the right from the boom to bussard scoop.Did any one notice?

666. DJT - November 19, 2008

Temporal mechanics give me a headache.

667. Yspano - November 19, 2008

@ 662
Our ‘technology to create singularities’ needs a million-dollar bailout. :P

668. Boborci - November 19, 2008

654. P Technobabble – November 19, 2008

Story was already worked out, but we did out homework.

669. Boborci - November 19, 2008

Randall – November 19, 2008

I think your points about Kirk are solid and interesting. In a way, i agree with you that he is the hardest character to get right, partly because he is both the hero and the he represents the point of view of the audience. Therefore, only the totality of his story can truly get his character across, as opposed to the other characters who are more easily recognizable on first blush. Hope not to disappoint you.

670. The Vulcanista - November 19, 2008

#662, #663, Y’all posting at the same time or what? LOL!

#666: Temporal mechanics make my brain ‘splode.

Peace. LIve long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:- |

671. Mr. Anonymous - November 19, 2008

Why the hell is everyone calling Nimoy’s character “Spock Prime?” Is that how he’s referred to in the script? If it’s not, then that’s the lamest unofficial designation for a character I’ve ever heard, and if it IS in the script…well….um…let’s hope attention isn’t drawn to it.

672. I Am Morg Not Eymorg - November 19, 2008

I went back and looked. Kirk does not have the face wounds he suffers from the bar fight he sports most of the movie seemingly when he is wearing the gold tunic and Captain’s stripes. So that scene obviously takes place sometime after the main story giving Kirk at least enough time to heal completely.

Fascinating.

673. Seven of Four - November 19, 2008

Boborci – I’m certainly willing to forget “canon violations” and whatnot. This looks very promising. I hope you guys knock us on our butts. That would really be a coup for a Star Trek movie. Hasn’t happened in quite a long time.

Truth is, not even half of the Trek movies is very good. A lot of fans are loathe to admit that. I don’t think there’s any way you and JJ and company can possibly go as low as some of those films.

But I have a feeling this is going to be very successful.

674. Nero's CD burner - November 19, 2008

667. Yspano – November 19, 2008

tell me about it! Lol! LHC= Large Hunk ‘o’ Crap

675. Alex Rosenzweig - November 19, 2008

#661 – “4. The Enterprise is not built at the same time as it originally was, is built in Iowa (well, you need a lot of room to build a ship that size, much larger than the Enterprise from the original timeline)”

Really, I’m not thinking that’s true. Based on the details we’re seeing, I’d suggest that the ship is very comparable in size to the original version. Look at the primary hull, especially, which looks just about the same size as the primary hull from the TMP version of the ship. the secondary hull looks a little smaller, but the engines look a bit bulkier, so the overall mass and size are probably about the same.

And another possibly fun question for Bob Orci. :)

Bob, did you guys create any specific story threads that were designed to lead into a sequel film, should one be made, or is this one self-contained and the hypothetical sequel could stand separately from this film?

676. Jordan - November 19, 2008

The effects and characters look fantastic! There’s just two thing that NEED to happen that haven’t happened in a LONG time for star trek.

A FRESH look at the future that isn’t bound by a vision how we hoped the world would look back in the 60′s and 80′s when trek was really new and originally pushing envelopes.

A MEANINGFUL story and engaging plot riding on top of what looks like a wicked film.

If they aren’t there, I’ll love it but not for very long.

This could be the best thing to happen to Trek since the third season of TNG. I think it will be an interesting look at what a couple of writers and producers hope the future will be for us. I’m interested in what they’ll say and how they’ll say it and I bet you all are too. Even the canon-crazy trekheads.

And also I want to see some big ships blow up and some sexual content . :)

LLAP

677. cd - November 19, 2008

636 – I am just afraid that the parts you are kidding about are the parts that will really be in the movie. >;>p

678. Boborci - November 20, 2008

675. Alex Rosenzweig – November 19, 2008

“Bob, did you guys create any specific story threads that were designed to lead into a sequel film, should one be made, or is this one self-contained and the hypothetical sequel could stand separately from this film?”

Our philosophy is to never be arrogant enough to think that a sequel will be made. We are trying to just make one good movie, and if that works, Q willing, future stories will take care of themselves.

679. Spot FTW - November 20, 2008

So I see at least a few clear cannon violations. They threw out the Enterprise being built in space and now went as far as to have it built in Iowa, WTF?! And then the idea about Spock getting a “chose your own path” speech from his jolly old dad just doesnt fit anything from TOS though the TMP movies. At this point Im thinking JJ said to hell with keeping this Star Trek much at all and just says he is to keep us Trekkies happy because he knows we’re going to go see it anyways. He’s trying to make it all exciting for everyone else that normally wouldnt touch a star trek movie. Im not saying its going to be bad, Im just not expecting something that is much of any Star Trek.

680. Valar1 - November 20, 2008

The Big E is being built in Iowa. So Motown gets the shaft again.

681. Neftoon - November 20, 2008

Mr Orci, in regards to Kirk hiding under Uhura’s bed it appears later on when kirk is making out with the Orion crewmember that there is another bed in the background, could it be that the orion lady and uhura are bunk mates and kirk gets caught out when uhura comes back unexpectedly?

682. Anthony Pascale - November 20, 2008

Bob, then why did you kill all the characters at the end?

was I not supposed to say that?

of course that creates the cool possibility for…..Zombie Trek!

683. Charles H. Root, III - November 20, 2008

Hmmm.

Is there a scene in the movie where the Vulcans go back in time to Earth and hire Frank Lloyd Wright as their architect and interior designer?

If Wright bought some Earth virus to Vulcan that may explain why the Vulcan sky is now blue instead of red.

684. Charles H. Root, III - November 20, 2008

No need to kill the characters if you kill the franchise, ha ha.

685. Old Trekkie - November 20, 2008

Hey, don’t Trekkies know where their cornflakes come from? According to the National Agriculture Statistics Service of the USDA there were 215,000 acres of corn produced in California this year. There are more than hippies in California.

686. ety3 - November 20, 2008

#671 – “Why the hell is everyone calling Nimoy’s character “Spock Prime?” Is that how he’s referred to in the script? If it’s not, then that’s the lamest unofficial designation for a character I’ve ever heard, and if it IS in the script…well….um…let’s hope attention isn’t drawn to it.”

He’s called Spock Prime to quickly differentiate “old Spock” from “young Spock.” I highly doubt that name will actually be said on screen.

Also, given the alternate universe nature of the story, assume that the Prime designation refers to the original timeline. Think DC Comics and their various designations for Earth before Crisis.

687. DJT - November 20, 2008

I hope that someday, someone will turn all those Trek novels into animated shows of some sort. Maybe even use the original actors to voice their animated counterparts as well (Q willing). Heck, I’d settle for live action fan stuff. Or would that negate the beauty of all those books?

688. James - November 20, 2008

Hmm… Abrams’ commentary on the trailer is interesting…

I can hear some people from the old school choking on their coffee as he mentions ‘breaking the rules’ and it being ‘fun’…

I am more and more coming round to Closettrekker’s theory – that this film is effectively an alternate timeline that sits alongside the history that we know.

One mistake with the commentary.. it says there’s one slide which is hard to make out, but it’s basically the Enterprise in a firefight with Nero’s ship (the Narada now, is it?). It’s not the Enterprise in the picture – it’s the Kelvin.

Ah, nitpicking! It’s so much fun!

689. Andrew - November 20, 2008

What if the ship being built in Iowa isn’t the Enterprise but some other ship?

690. Andrew - November 20, 2008

#686 “Prime designation refers to the original timeline.”

Good suggestion!

691. Neil - November 20, 2008

I guess the question that pops up for me now is that if all the supposed ‘canon violations’ are somehow rectified before the end of the movie, what does that actually *mean*?

Does it mean that at the end of the movie, suddenly we’re back to TOS Enterprise, TOS bridge, TOS everything? Where’s the line? How much flexibility is there?

Or when the NEXT movie comes out, are we all going to regroup here and haggle over color choices and transporter beams again?

692. Admiral_Bumblebee - November 20, 2008

#688
“I can hear some people from the old school choking on their coffee as he mentions ‘breaking the rules’ and it being ‘fun’…”

It is a slap in the face of all Star Trek fans that want one continous story (call it continuity or canon)…

693. Armandeus - November 20, 2008

I’m a long-time lurker, and I’d like to suggest something. Would it be possible to highlight the posts and/or names of the site admin and any special guest posters, like those directly involved with the movie? It would make skimming long, long threads like this one for authoritative information a whole lot easier.

694. Anthony Brooks Fellows - November 20, 2008

Nice to know Iowans have given up agriculture for arc-welded shipbuilding in the 23rd century.

The Corvette Kid. I’m from Kansas, Iowa’s next door neighbor [in the 21st century anyway. Not sure about the 23rd].. They steal pickups out there, not ‘Vettes;and the uncle usually provides the beer.

Who does Chris “The Corvette Kid” Pine’s hair, one of those Iowan shipwrights? It’s about as arc-welded in place as the super-deformed USS Booblehead-prise.

Is that Kara Thrace in the bedroom romp scene, or is an extra just glad to see him?

Robocop. Somebody needs to arrest the guy who’s responsible for that terrible outfit.

Winona Kirk. I’d scream, too if I was in this film. Too late. You’re too far out at sea to swim back to Iowa.

I could [and should] go on, but.

Abrams is doing fine all by himself.

695. thorsten - November 20, 2008

[682] …which will coincide with Losts famous “Zombie Season”…
I knew that JJ and Damon were secretely working on the TrekLost crossover thing!

696. Neil - November 20, 2008

#693
But Armandeus…everyone here is an authority, and everyone here is a bigger fan than everybody else. Didn’t you know?

Excellent idea, by the way.

697. Neil - November 20, 2008

#693
…and I forgot…everybody here is a better filmmaker than JJ.

698. BK613 - November 20, 2008

691
This is just a guess on my (and some other folks’) part here, but I think this movie is doing the Back to the Future version of timeline alteration. Through the course of those films, we have four distinct but different 1985s:

The original where George McFly is a loser,
The First restored, where George is a SF writer and where Marty gets into an accident,
The Biff-on-top 1985, where George is dead and Hill Valley is a cesspool,
and the Second restored, where Marty avoids the accident.

I’m thinking something similar for this movie…a new timeline without the big reset button.

699. Anthony Brooks Fellows - November 20, 2008

694-

Annotation…

The cliff.

That Corvette’s going to have lots of company going over a cliff next year.

700. J.J. Abrams takes Empire through the STAR TREK trailer | Obsessed With Film - November 20, 2008

[...] Trek Movie have a similar kind of breakdown you can enjoy HERE. [...]

701. Anthony Brooks Fellows - November 20, 2008

697-

Even they couldn’tve done this bad…

Pine’s smart to hide under that bed…

702. Jay El Jay - November 20, 2008

Has anyone thought about Ent???

ENT really messed around with time, it also introduced the Borg before the borg should have been introduced, and i didnt see anything past the 1st season so cant tell you what other canon breakers were made- but im sure that some of what happened in ENT affected TOS somehow…???

703. commander K, USS Sovereign - November 20, 2008

I had a horrible dream that this turned out like Nemesis.

The trailer feels exactly like Nemesis. (from the sex scenes, to the pointless corvette shot (dune buggy anyone?), and a baldy Nero (or is it Shinzon?) sitting in a Scimitar like ship)

but neway, it was just a dream..and not all dreams come true, right?

704. Chris Pike - November 20, 2008

703. commander K, USS Sovereign

Yes – those similarities are a bit worrying…

705. Neil - November 20, 2008

#699 & #701
Thanks for the yuk-fest, ABF. Funny stuff.
Maybe some decaf.

I look at filmmaking the same way I look at the Detroit Tigers. The minute the Tigers think I’m smart enough to run a baseball club, I’m sure my phone will ring.

Much like the way I’m sure when Paramount decides that JJ isn’t the guy, I’m sure they’ll come running for their next genius filmmaking legend in this forum.

706. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - November 20, 2008

662 — Your connecting the quantum singularity that drives Romulan ships to the creation of a black hole in Vulcan makes sense, however, it would still be a lot easier to create the black hole at Vulcan’s sun because it has more mass, there is no need for drilling, and the black hole would kill the solar system anyway.

707. James - November 20, 2008

Just been flicking through the easter eggs on the official site…

Has anyone else noticed that on the restricted Nero desktop… he’s missing the top part of his right ear?

708. thorsten - November 20, 2008

[703, 704]
Guys, this movie is NOTHING like that darn Nemesis…
The car scene with Kirk is not useless, it introduces two things…
First the down to earth approach the team has taken,
but more important the state of mind that Kirk is in, they way he grows up, and that this throws hiff off track a bit. It is importantn information for the audience to get what turmoil Kirk is in when he finally becomes a cadet, and why he stays the troublemaker even then…

709. thorsten - November 20, 2008

[706] Numbers, skip this if you don’t want to be spoiled…

______________
SPOILER ALERT

Drilling the hole is part one of the effort, after Kirk and Suklu disable the drill the Narada drops a rotating probe that fall into the whole. The probe delivers the Red Matter needed to start the singularity…

____________
SPOILER END

710. thorsten - November 20, 2008

Q, help my typing!
it FALLS into the HOLE

;))

711. Jakob - November 20, 2008

Long time reader, finally posting …

However:
Thanks für the great analysis of the trailer! I like the trailer, but there’s one thing about this movie that bugs me: Does it really have to be a bad guy with a planet-destroying superweapon again? That reeks of GEN, INS and NEM.

And, to repeat a question already posted by someone else: How do we know that the scene with Nero and the Klingons is at Rura Penthe? Given the masks, how do we even know those are Klingons?

712. Anthony Brooks Fellows - November 20, 2008

705-

All the black coffee in the world won’t get rid of the hangover this movie’s going to give Abrams come next May. But, I suppose it beats the poisoned Kool Aid he expects Trek fans to imbibe.at the box office.

I know plenty of filmmakers who don’t have the slightest idea about the act of making a decent film; but it sure ain’t never stopped them from working.
steadily. Hollywood’s hardly a meritocracy. Not hardly.

As for folks in this forum, given what I know about how Paramount operates, folks hereabouts have brilliant future careers in film.

They sure as hell couldn’t do any worse.

713. BK613 - November 20, 2008

706
Yes but how do you do that without making it look like the trilithium-in-the-star thing from Generations?

714. Neil - November 20, 2008

#712

Then maybe they should. If the fans in this forum could make a better Star Trek motion picture designed to reinvigorate the franchise and attract enough new fans to return it to long-term profitability, then maybe those fans should get off their high horses and get it done instead of simply talking about how much cooler and smarter than JJ they are.

What? No one will give them enough money? Maybe there’s a reason for that.

715. Anthony Brooks Fellows - November 20, 2008

714-

What? No one will give them enough money? Maybe there’s a reason for that.

If they can actually get money up front, given that racket, Academy Awards are right around the corner.

716. Neil - November 20, 2008

#715
You’re deliberately missing my point. No surprise there.

Look, I love Jim Cawley’s stuff. I’ve downloaded everything he’s done, and keep checking to see if there’s new stuff there. Love the old sets, costumes, props and everything else. Love his respect for canon (despite killing Chekov).

But – correct me if I’m wrong, Jim – downloads on his episodes have never hit the 1,000,000 mark – perhaps not even cumulatively. And that’s for FREE. So as good as his stuff is, it ain’t bringing new people to the party, even as a freebie.

Star Trek doesn’t exist so people can wank to how observant of canon it is. It doesn’t even exist to give people hope for a brighter future. It exists now, and always has existed, as a piece of entertainment designed to make money – whether for the sponsors of a TV show, or from the moviegoing or bookbuying public.

If you want to see Star Trek fade forever into obscurity, then just keep waiting for Jim Cawley to crank out his REALLY well-done stuff at a rate that’s not quite enough for those of us who love his work.

If you want to see it thrive again, it’s going to occasionally mean looking at some of the stuff that rubs you the wrong way, and taking a “suck it up” pill.

717. JL - November 20, 2008

678

Mr. Orci,

That is a repsctable philosophy.

1) If there is a sequel, and you agree to sign on, my hope is that you and your fellow writers work some type of cliffhanger into the end (ala a certain film)… we haven’t been put on the edge of our seats like that since..!!

2) Also, do you know if the film is 100% scored or is that still underway?

3) Maybe someone has already asked you this but I am curious: what are your top 5 TOS episodes?

I am so stoked — very excited for May 8th!

Thank you from the bottom of my TOS-lovin’ heart,
A Fan From Cleveland

718. thorsten - November 20, 2008

[717] Hi JL, just last night I watched the ep of 30Rock where Lemon visits Cleveland… appears to be a great place!

;))

719. earthclanbootstrap - November 20, 2008

#714 Neil

As one of the people who was previously very excited about the movie and is now EXTREMELY disappointed after seeing this trailer and having certain plot points essentially confirmed by Anthony, I’m not approaching my criticism from the standpoint that I could make a better film. I have neither the skill nor the experience to do so. I approach it from the standpoint of a 30 year plus Star Trek fan and a potential paying audience member who expects to be entertained. With what has been revealed so far there is every indication that this would not only disappoint me, but actively grate on my nerves. It seems like you are implying that because I have some serious reservations about this thing that I’m a frustrated, whining wannabe movie-maker? Far from it. Merely a fan who would like to be entertained, and I see a rapidly diminishing chance of that.

720. Neil - November 20, 2008

#719 earthclanbootstrap

Not implying that in all cases.
In that particular post, I’m talking about the people who seem to have little to say other than “JJ sucks”, and “they’re destroying Trek”, and similar comments.
Some have dismissed this yet-to-be-released film as garbage, simply because the struts that hold up the nacelles have changed.

Ummm…yikes?

721. New Horizon - November 20, 2008

712. Anthony Brooks Fellows-

Shut up and wait for the film to be released. Feel free to vent your vitriolic, juvenile, rage then.

In general, I’m starting to get pretty sick of the prissy, spoiled, and all mighty attitudes some posters are taking here. Lashing out against human beings, who have genuinely given their best attempt to make this film, is hardly within the philosophy of Trek that so many claim to worship.

Some of the film makers read this board. Does it make some of you feel more important to insult them? There are ways to voice criticism, without belittling the people behind the object you are criticizing. The only thing people who behave so badly are doing is coming across as uneducated barbarians.

All some people seem to know how to do is hate, hate, hate, and hate. It sickens me. Show some human compassion. Certainly not a fan base I wish to associate myself with any longer.

722. AJ - November 20, 2008

Jeez

Isn’t it more important that these characters get good cinematic backstories? Spock’s we know fairly well, and it looks like this Trek will respect it. I am sure he’ll be in conflict with Sarek. Too important to ignore.

But Kirk’s service, Kodos, friends and girlfriends really don’t flesh him out at all. This film is looking to change that, and show what motivates him to be who he is. I would sacrifice the Republic and the Farragut (silly ep anyway) to know his upbringing.

723. Neil - November 20, 2008

#721

You’re suggesting that people should behave as rational adults. Not gonna happen.

What sickens me even more is that there are those who have brazenly suggested that instead of paying to see the film they’ve decided is trash based on the disjointed two minutes they’ve seen, they’re going to download it illegally from the internet.

In other words, steal it.

…which, by the way, would be taking money out of the pockets of people like Leonard Nimoy, who likely have percentage deals worked out with Paramount.

But hey…why not screw over Leonard Nimoy? After all, Chris Pine’s eyes are blue.

724. JL - November 20, 2008

721

I second that. Get out of here and take your disrespectful venom with you.

725. thorsten - November 20, 2008

I was shocked to learn that JJ Abrams next project will be the reboot of another beloved franchise, Hogans Heroes!

From what I heard, it is supposed to be about the upbringing of young Conolel Klink, played of course by Shia LeBoef…

Bummer.

726. JL - November 20, 2008

718

Thanks thorsten. It depends on where you go (like most cities) but downtown is actually pretty cool… and there are a lot of different things going on so there’s something for almost everyone I would say.

727. JL - November 20, 2008

725

oh, man. that sounds like some kinda joke. is that for real??

728. BK613 - November 20, 2008

As a metaphor for tossing out the 60s styling, I thought it was a nice touch that, when the speedometer is visible, the speed goes from 66 to 74, i.e., the start of TOS to the end of TAS

729. earthclanbootstrap - November 20, 2008

#s 720-724 (Neil, New Horizon, AJ & JL)

Guys, I understand where you’re coming from and agree with you completely that Trollish Ignorant Bashing is getting way out of line in some cases and is quite frankly juvenile and occasionally despicable. But are you willing to admit that some of us are justified in questioning and criticising what we have seen so far? Granted, we haven’t seen the whole film yet, but the trailer is supposed to be representative of the film and get me MORE excited about seeing the film. It’s had exactly the opposite effect in my case. It indicates that there are going to be wholesale changes to the backstory tapestry of the franchise merely for the sake of change and the sense that I get is that they did it just because they could. The fact of the matter is that there are LOTS of fans who do embrace and revel in the details of canon, at least in the broad sense, and at this point they are pretty upset, and I would say justifiably so. Have some of them crossed the line? Absolutely. But don’t dismiss any and all criticism, because quite frankly a lot of it seems to be justified at this stage. And for what it’s worth, I’m certainly not livid over the curved nacelle struts or the iBridge, but my gut reaction is that it is about the ugliest version of the Enterprise that I have ever seen. That’s not mean spirited, it’s just an honest reaction. I fully understand that you are all really excited, I was one of you until I spent two minutes watching the trailer. But please understand that those of us who have serious reservations are entirely entitled and furthermore fully justified in holding them.

730. thorsten - November 20, 2008

[728] haha, well done BK613…
now figure out the hidden meaning of the Numbers on the plate…

731. Neil - November 20, 2008

#729 earthclanbootstrap

Hey, as long as there’s a First Amendment, people can say what they want. And I get that to some people, respect for random lines of dialogue tossed out in a single episode of a 40 year-old TV show is more important than whether it’s the same big-tent, big-picture vision of the future that Gene Roddenberry maintained throughout his involvement with Star Trek.

I get that.

What I still disagree with (and with your post in particular) is this notion that the trailer was supposed to get the fanboys excited about seeing the film.

It’s not.

The trailer we’ve seen, which ran in theaters showing QoS, was designed to get people who spend money on James Bond movies (which consist mostly of car chases, naked chicks and bowing stuff up) to get interested in spending money on a Star Trek movie.

If it was aimed at the rabid fans on this board, I suspect it would have been more about Pike, more about the Kelvin, and more about the things that are important to the fanboys.

732. Pat D - November 20, 2008

Location of the Vulcan government chamber . . .

http://www.rosehills.com/eventsContent/aboutskyrose.aspx#

Rosehills Memorial Park

733. JL - November 20, 2008

729

I understand your point of view on this, different opinions – even negative ones – are interesting as far as I’m concerned. If it were all “happy sunshine and rainbows” it would be boring and hardly anyone would want to come here.

But some of the people posting re: this new film are completely disrespecting the filmmakers. Some of us are tired of reading how “Star Trek is gonna die because of Abrams, these writers don’t know what they;re F-ing doing, Star Trek is gonna take a s#it at the box office because Kirk’s hair is too gay looking, etc etc” on and on. Some people are 100% negative, with nothing — not one thing decent to say.

I think some of us are just tired of it, that’s all.

734. earthclanbootstrap - November 20, 2008

731 and 733

I understand where you are coming from, trust me. I stopped going to TrekBBS back in the Enterprise days because of the venom on both sides of the issue; it gets really old. Just please don’t lump the respectful skeptics in with the trolls.

Neil, I understand that the trailer is geared towards the QoS demographic and not the fanboys, but what I’m quite frankly puzzled and concerned about is that it forced me into a 180 regarding the film. That’s certainly not the result they were shooting for, was it?

735. JL - November 20, 2008

731

Neil

A very rational, specific explaination, one that is hard to argue against as far as I am concerned.

736. AJ - November 20, 2008

731

The trailer was (poorly) distributed with QoS because James Bond is mainstream. Trek wants to be mainstream, too.

The trailer was meant to attract pre-teens/teenagers (Kirk/Corvette), young women (Chris Pine) and men (action/sex) 18-42.

737. New Horizon - November 20, 2008

729. earthclanbootstrap-

Who is dismissing ALL criticism? I stated in my post, “There are ways to voice criticism, without belittling the people behind the object you are criticizing.” If people can criticize maturely, then so be it…if not..they should learn how.

It’s a new film. I don’t think the writers are changing everything …just for the sake of change….and even if they are, we don’t know that yet.

The trailer was built to be fast paced and look action packed to catch the eye of film goers. It achieved that by not looking like every other Trek trailer. Early on I made the mistake of going into this expecting the Trek I had become accustomed to. Seriously, we Trek fans had become trained hamsters over the last 20 years. We knew that ‘like clockwork’ we would get a new film every 2 to 3 years. We knew how it was going to look, and what the formula was.

You can look at this film in two ways:

Pessimistically, and consider it the end of everything we already know…..or…
Optimistically, and accept is as something new to explore and marvel at.

The original ‘fiction’ of Star Trek is still there in the classic run of the series and movies. There is no reason why we can’t accept an alternative to the original that branches off in a slightly different direction.

Canon is a guideline. I think they’re staying true to the characters, and that’s the most important thing. All people seem to care about are the differences, when there is actually so much that the film makers have stayed true to. I never thought for an instant that the uniforms would be as close to TOS as they turned out.

It’s one thing to embrace canon, but another entirely to enforce it upon everyone as if it were scripture.

I am happy to observe canon within the classic run of films and shows, but if this is something different…I am happy to set that aside in order to enjoy new stories and marvel at the wonder of the Star Trek universe once again.

738. thorsten - November 20, 2008

You are right, JL. And the writers did know exactly what they were doing.
They came up with the best idea possible since sliced bread to save the franchise.

739. hitch1969© say The OrcSter™ aint yella. - November 20, 2008

I’m having several thoughts now.

Shia LeBoof. My second thought is in relation to this entire thing going on here. You know what – for years we thought the Enterprise was built in space at the SF shipyards. Now that is either true or it is not. For whatever reason, the filmmakers have chosen to change this to Iowa, and on the ground. It was either for a very good reason (perhaps plot related) or perhaps it was simply from ignorance. (very unlikely because the OrcSter is highly schooled)

Then I got to wondering. I think we’re all assuming that Spock has a round trip ticket in the timeship. But what if NOT?

In thinking more… for a movie shrouded so much in secrecy… they have revealed ALOT in the last week. To me, that would have to mean these are very deliberate choices. For instance, why no Nimoy sightings yet?

I guess what I am saying is that I don’t think that Anthony could put together a “story so far” thing for this site. I think there are major elements that are still missing. There are still many possibilities. I know that we want all the different shows and movies to run together seemlessly for our little completionist minds to appreciate the continuity. I believe that everything misunderstood today will make sense next May.

I trust in the OrcSter™ in this regard. There is a reason for every season. And things of this nature…

THE WOMEN!!

=h=

740. P Technobabble - November 20, 2008

The battle rages on, eh? Perhaps there should be two separate forums, one for the Positive side, one for the Negative side, because each side are only preaching to their own choir.
Those people who come out criticizing and flogging the film before anyone has even seen it have not changed anything in my mind, and I doubt they’ve changed the minds of anyone else who feels positive about it. You gotta wonder why they keep trying… When I see the movie, I will come to my own conclusions — something I am quite capable of doing, thank you very much. Meanwhile, I am going to continue to enjoy my anticipation of this movie, re-watching the trailer again (and again), and the time I spend lurking around this website. Bon apetite.

741. Neil - November 20, 2008

And you’re restating my point why?

The main thing is that this trailer is targeted toward non-Trek fans. You don’t do a trailer and then decide where you’re going to put it. You find an audience and customize a trailer for that audience.

Even Stevie Wonder could see that the choice of scenes for this trailer was specifically geared to an action-film audience.

Producing a trailer for the choice of demographic you cite (since when was 18-42 an accepted demographic in marketing?) would be like nailing Jell-O to a wall.

742. Captain Dunsel - November 20, 2008

I still wonder if the reversed footage of Spock is accidental, or intentional. As I speculated once before, an inside “nod” to TOS, where it happened occasionally? JJ? Any comment?

743. thorsten - November 20, 2008

[739] Roundtrip… good point hitch.
I guess when I travel back in Time, change something, then I am stuck in that timeline I just created by my interference.

This is actually how I ended up in germany in the first place, hehe.

744. P Technobabble - November 20, 2008

737 New Horizon “…I am happy to observe canon within the classic run of films and shows, but if this is something different…I am happy to set that aside in order to enjoy new stories and marvel at the wonder of the Star Trek universe once again…”

Exactly. Agreed 1000%. Setting aside canon (if necessary — and we still don’t have all the facts regarding canon) to enjoy this film would NOT constitute an act of treason.

745. Titan2010 - November 20, 2008

If anyone’s interested…. You can now download the HD version of the trailer to your Xbox 360 at 1080p!! yippiee!!!!

746. earthclanbootstrap - November 20, 2008

740 P Technobabble
The exact same could be said for the skeptics; ranting and raving about how great it is going to be and implying that those who don’t are whiny brats is going to change MY mind! There is plenty of room here for dissenting opinions, does that disturb you? Should this be a forum for people who only think one way?

747. JL - November 20, 2008

746

“Should this be a forum for people who only think one way?”

No, but it would be nice if it was a forum where people with discerning opinions would act like decent human beings and show some respect for the filmmakers and other creatives behind the film (which, btw, we have not seen more than two minutes of) instead of making derogatory statements against them.

748. hitch1969© say The OrcSter™ aint yella. - November 20, 2008

and i also want to ask at this time, what happened to all those theories from just a few months ago that Nero is Spock’s bastard son from the Romulan chick?

did we toss that one out completely?

i think that we’re going to see various shout-outs in dialogue to the previous versions of Trek (ie – Archer’s dog) but I highly doubt that any major plot point is going to be based on anything before it.

Personally, I think all the canon violations are, like I’ve stated before – First Contact’s “reintroduction” of Cochrane. If you try to compare it to that one episode, you’ll be like… duh? But if you have a general idea who he is in the scheme of things and havent seen the episode in 15 years it really works well. Because you remember his name and that about it. “Oh yeah… that guy. I remember him in an episode I saw 15 years ago. The stupid one with the cloud and the chick from Father Knows Best”

In other words… no alternate timeline. Sir JJ said that this is an “origins” story. AP has called it a “prequel”. THAT is it’s function, the time travel aspect thrown in as a reset button.

I don’t think that Sir JJ is giving nods to any previous series. He’s not a fan, remember? He’s been handed this franchise and surrounded himself with knowledgeable folks like the Orcster to keep it honest.

How honest, is open to interpretation. I believe it’s very faithful, because I am not getting caught up in some throw away line that Shatner said in an episode that’s 40 years old.

SO now, SF is Iowa… earths orbit becomes on the ground… I mean, come on… why are Uhura and Sulu in a bar IN IOWA???? Pike’s there, too? Checkov serving with Pike? No Boyce, Number One, all them?

Would the general movie going public care??? “This movie is not for the fans, it’s for fans of movies”

It’s like old David Chase tells us about that Sopranos final episode. “It’s all there.”

People please think about this and begin to accept. Then, enjoy. Stop making up crazy scenarios that defy common sense. It’s all there, it’s all been there, right in front of you. Like the ruby slippers and whatnot. Just click your heels and wish.

THE WOMEN!!

=h=

749. JL - November 20, 2008

745

That’s very cool – thanks for the tip!

750. thorsten - November 20, 2008

@748

Hitch, it may be all there, but Sulu is not in that bar with Uhura…

751. JL - November 20, 2008

Re: 745

Hey Titan, do they charge for downloading the HD trailer on the 360?

752. hitch1969© say The OrcSter™ aint yella. - November 20, 2008

Thorsten Howell THE 3rd™,

In one of those reports, I read it was Sulu and 3 other dudes that fight JTK after he drunkenly harassess Uhura in that bar. Maybe that was wrong. But still, two things about that.

1. Uhura serving Budweisers in Iowa? What’s she doing in Iowa?

2. JTK, with that massive macintosh computer in his trousers like that, having to resort to that kind of tomfoolery to get chicks?

see what i am saying dude? alls he’d have to do is expose his terraquad hard drive to seal that deal.

THE WOMEN!!

=h=

753. earthclanbootstrap - November 20, 2008

747
I’m questioning what I’ve seen of the work they’ve done on this film, not their individual worth or character as human beings. There’s a big difference. I don’t think I’ve been insulting, just questioning where this is going. Quite frankly, I have a lot of respect for Mr. Orci in particular as he has been willing to spend time on this board and give us some insight into the movie as it developed. I’m not demonizing them; I think they have truly tried to deliver the best movie they can. To imply otherwise is either just plain crazy or neurotically malevolent or both. I’m just questioning what I have seen of the choices they have made, because quite frankly it doesn’t inspire much confidence in delivering a movie I will enjoy. The proof will be in the pudding, I’m just dubious that I’ll bother to see it on the big screen. At this stage it’s looking more like a rental to me (and NOT, I might add, an illegal download).

754. Closettrekker - November 20, 2008

#648—-”I wasn’t clear on this earlier, let me be 100% Clear….the USS Enterprise in the movie is being built in Iowa. This is not speculation or a guess, it is what it is. Anything above that is in the ‘educated guess’ category is noted as such (and those are very educated guesses). The only reason is to give wiggle room because in over 2 years TrekMovie has never got a ’spoiler’ wrong, and we dont want to start now.”

I suppose that “San Francisco Shipyards” might be a company that builds the Enterprise, or that this time around, the Enterprise simply doesn’t have a plaque with that printed on it.

If “San Fransisco Shipyards” (in the original timeline) is referring to a geographical location, rather than a series of shipbuilding sites belonging to a company based in SF, then perhaps there is a reason for that, somehow related to the timeline incursion of 2233 (the attack upon the USS Kelvin).

I am still trusting that Bob Orci’s promise that “anything which appears to violate canon will have a canon explanation” was made very sincerely.

755. Teleportation Girl - November 20, 2008

about the previous posts about the at at walkers and the san francisco/oakland shipyards:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25337162@N00/1479335076/

you can easily see how lucas would have gotten the idea. :)

756. John from Cincinnati - November 20, 2008

I have a response to everyone who is fearful to read or hear other Trekkers opinions of some “artistic freedoms” that were taken in this new movie. For one, I don’t believe the entire Trek future hinges on this movie. There are still lot’s of Trekkers, everywhere. Star Trek has had many “deaths” (TOS cancellation, STV, ENT, Nemesis), and “rebirths” (TAS, TMP, TNG) so I’m not worried. I am saddened a lot of the history of some of our favorite characters and episodes is getting messed with but in the spirit of this new scewed galaxy we live in I will guote a wise, famous Vulcanian:

“Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suff-er-ing”.

757. Teleportation Girl - November 20, 2008

actually, i meant imperial walkers, not at at

:)

758. hitch1969© say The OrcSter™ aint yella. - November 20, 2008

“anything which appears to violate canon will have a canon explanation”

Its like this. Yesterday, I made several really cool posts to the OrcSter basically complimenting him and asskissing the Supreme Court allthewhile taking some innocent shots at their buddy, Shia LeBoof. SO AP arrives back from Paramount (what he was doing there, we’ll never know but it does become more suspicious when he doesnt tell us) and AP gets into a timeship and goes back in time and deletes several of my better posts.

Even though he has gone back in time – all the posts from before he intervened, and also all the ones after he intervened… are unaffected. And posts keep getting added as time marches on. THAT is the reality of time travel, folks. Good science fiction writers have made it much more interesting in the theoretical sense for dramatic purposes. The truth is, there is no ripple effect, no butterfly effect, any of that. Just several deleted posts, and nothing else is changed except my ego.

THE WOMEN!!

=h=

759. thorsten - November 20, 2008

[752] Okay Hitch…
Kirk comes to that place quite regulary I guess…
He talks up chicks every night.
This time its Uhura.
She cant believe his sloppy approach and mocks him…
tells him she is xenolinguist
he surprises her by knowing exactly what that is
Then the 4 cadets show up,
and fists are flying.

760. hitch1969© say The OrcSter™ aint yella. - November 20, 2008

and did I mention, there’s no Shatner in this movie, it was never seriously even considered. sorry.

=h=

761. BK613 - November 20, 2008

730
LOL i like looking for easter eggs like that so yes if anything on the numbers come up I’ll post it :-)

741
I think that this trailer has many layers. In general it is aimed for the non-Trek audience but TPTB knew that avid fans would be all over it as well. There are Easter eggs, metaphors and double-meanings galore. For example, try listening to the voice-overs not as Pike/Sarek to Kirk/Spock, but as JJ and Co to the long term fans.

If the movie is as thoughtfully constructed as the trailer seems to be, we should do well in May.

762. Closettrekker - November 20, 2008

#753—-I cannot imagine seeing a movie like this for the first time on anything but the “big screen”.

…But I hear you.

There is certainly a difference between criticism of professional art and personal criticism of the artist.

With that said, there are many here on this board who would seemingly make a definitive judgement on a painting after being shown only the top right hand corner of it, while the rest of the painting remains covered by a cloth…

Anyone has the right to decide for himself whether to invest $10 and two hours of personal time in a movie ticket and theater screening, but I think it will be a shame if lifelong fans choose not to make that investment based upon talk and a two-minute trailer.

Star Trek finally has the kind of budget treatment it deserves, IMO, for the first time since TMP, and to justify that—I think this movie needs ‘all hands on deck’…perhaps even twice.

763. earthclanbootstrap - November 20, 2008

756
So THAT’S what planet Yoda is from; no wonder Big George didn’t want that particular piece of info getting out…
BTW -are you really in Cincy? I’m right across the river in Ft. Thomas.

764. Neil - November 20, 2008

#759

And maybe somewhere along the line Kirk can say:

“You like apples? Well I got her number. How do you like those apples?”

765. thorsten - November 20, 2008

@760
Its really heartless of Spock not to stop over and save Kirk from the hapless hands of BermanBraga on his way back to the 23rd century…

766. Holger - November 20, 2008

762: But on the other hand you needn’t eat the whole bowl of soup to know it’s not tasty ;-)

767. thorsten - November 20, 2008

@762

‘all hands on deck’
right with you, CT…

768. hitch1969© say The OrcSter™ aint yella. - November 20, 2008

$10 is “an investment”?

2 hours is a “time investment”?

I bet your wife just ~L~O~V~E~S~ that mentality. ay caramba, dude.

even a bad haircut grows back out, friend. remember that.

=h=

769. earthclanbootstrap - November 20, 2008

#762
I know where you’re coming from. I really want it to succeed as well. It would be fantastic for that to happen to a franchise I have loved since I was about five or six years old! The question is at what price? (both literally and figuratively!) To tell you the truth, I’m a bit surprised at my own reaction to the trailer, but right now it’s like a big dollop of spoiled cottage cheese sitting in my stomach…

770. John from Cincinnati - November 20, 2008

763.

LOL. Very funny.

No I’m not in Cincy now, was born there though. Grew up watching Pete Rose, Johnny Bench, Joe Morgan, Tony Perez, Dave Concepcion tear up baseball.

771. Mr Coutts 1981 - November 20, 2008

With reference to the location of the Enterprise construction, for 100s of years Naval vessels have been constructed in one place and commissioned in another.

The Titantic for example, built in Belfast, commissioned in Liverpool, set sail from Southampton. On dedication plaques the location usually makes reference to the City or region of commission.

Can this not be the case for the Enterprise? Built in America’s Mid-West and commissioned at Starfleet Command in San Fransisco?

Also building a ship on the ground makes sense, no one is an expert in space travel, oh wait, NASA, don’t remember any of their vehicles being built in space……

Think before you post. Good advice.
It’s human nature to question anything new, different, outwith the norm but give it a chance.

Some people nitpick for nitpick sake, true fans embrace the new, it is the spirit of Trek. New frontiers, new ideas, new concepts. I believe that this should be the case with the new film. Go with the flow and enjoy it. Plus, take a look at the new vision of the Enterprise from a distance……

772. JL - November 20, 2008

758

Hey Hitch – why do you suppose it is your specific posts were deleted by the big A? Were they plot guesses on your part?

Hmmmmmm

773. JL - November 20, 2008

771

Another bit of rational thought! My god, what’s going on around here

774. Harry Ballz - November 20, 2008

#768 hitch “even a bad haircut grows back out”

Yes, but bad film is forever!

775. Scotty's Moustache - November 20, 2008

771, 773

WHOA WHOA WHOA…..everyone just calm down….it will be irrational soon enough..I promise…

776. Closettrekker - November 20, 2008

#765—”Its really heartless of Spock not to stop over and save Kirk from the hapless hands of BermanBraga on his way back to the 23rd century…”

Thorsten, I’m assuming that you’re joking…but just for fun, I’m going to give you my take on that…

Presumably, Spock is (at the start of this story) still on Romulus helping to advise those who are facilitating change in the political climate there. If that is true (and it is admittedly, an assumption), then I find it unlikely that he would even be aware of the “nexus” or his old friend’s fate on Veridian III. It is not as if there was any indication that he would somehow maintain a clandestine correspondence with Picard that might keep him up to date.

That—to me– would require some explanation. It seems far more likely that, for all he knows, James T. Kirk died aboard the Enterprise-B.

It is one thing for Spock to travel back in time to prevent a villain from disrupting the past, but quite another to travel nearly a century back (jeopardizing what he knows of the original timeline and billions of lives and fates) just to save a personal friend and, in the process, risk jeopardizing that timeline himself.

Some would point out that Kirk risked much to save him in TSFS, but I must point out the difference. Kirk was willing to risk his career for Spock’s life (the loss of his ship and his son was unintended). If Spock were suddenly willing to jeopardize not only billions of lives, but the outcome of such monumental events as “The Dominion War”, the Borg invasion, and essentially the fate of the entire Alpha Quadrant by interfering with the timeline for the sake of one man—–well, he wouldn’t be the Spock I know.

If he were going to travel back in time to prevent what he thought was Kirk’s death during the incident aboard the Enterprise-B, why not do it immediately after? Why wait 100 years or so?

:)

777. montreal paul - November 20, 2008

i see all the children have come out today.

778. S. John Ross - November 20, 2008

#762 sez: “… I think it will be a shame if lifelong fans choose not to make that investment based upon talk and a two-minute trailer.”

But in fairness, that’s what trailers are FOR. I decided, flat-out, to give Watchmen a chance based on the new Watchmen trailer. I’ve always been very mixed on the comic, so I was very much on the fence about the movie … but the trailer sold me. That’s what trailers are supposed to do. The Star Trek trailer hasn’t made up my mind about seeing the film, but it has discouraged me enough that I don’t intend to see it opening night (but rather to wait to hear more about it), and for better or for worse, that’s what trailers are about. That’s what they do.

#762 also sez: “Star Trek finally has the kind of budget treatment it deserves, IMO, for the first time since TMP, and to justify that—I think this movie needs ‘all hands on deck’…perhaps even twice.”

If the movie deserves it, sure. But do you really think it _automatically_ deserves it just because the franchise suits have declared this to be “Star Trek” by right of owning the logo and associated characters and situations?

If the movie is awesome, word will get around. I have many friends who’ll see it sight-unseen on opening night because they ARE loyal to the logo/franchise rather than the ideas, and they know my tastes and I know theirs. If enough of them, the next day, describe the film in terms that encourage me, I will go see it, and then if it rocks my world I’ll go see it again, and again … And if not, not … because the trailer has done its job. That’s what trailer are for.

Never saw Insurrection; never saw Nemesis; never tuned in to watch Enterprise (though I saw a few episodes later on, after they’d aired). Never watched past the first season of Voyager except when I was paid to, etc.

Not all lifelong fans of Star Trek are lifelong fans of the Star Trek _franchise._

779. SH Cone - November 20, 2008

Are we sure the Enterprise is built in Iowa? How do we know that at that point Kirk isn’t on his way to San Francisco?

If Nero has gone as far back as George Kirk, who knows how his presence has affected anything from technological development to the placement of key players like Pike?

I’m still not convinced that a lot of the griping and assumed errors are actual errors. The narrative could easily address pretty much everything being brought up here. I can pretty easily create explanations based on the little bit that we know. Though little glitches like Kirk not being able to drive stick are glitches that could happen on any show and I don’t really care about them. Let’s not forget that in FIRST CONTACT, we get two entirely different accounts of how many decks the Enterprise-E has.

780. Holger - November 20, 2008

I guess all those of us who said in that poll that they are strict constructionists regarding canon now see our own position turned against us: It is true that an alternate timeline can be a perfectly acceptable way to explain most of the upcoming canon issues in the movie. (Except an at-warp effect looking similar to Star Wars hyperspace :-)
On the other hand some have expressed deep disappointment with that solution, and I’m also discontent. Sure, formally it’s within canon. But on the other hand it’s an excuse to change almost anything from the legacy. We know the mirror universe, it’s canon, and everything’s different there. But I wouldn’t want a TV show set entirely in the mirror universe. Of course it can be canon, but it’s not what you expect Trek to be. I enjoyed In A Mirror, Darkly very much, but it was over after two episodes (and it had TOS ships and uniforms). I think I could enjoy a whole movie set in an alternate reality, although this is absolutely not my first choice for a Trek movie plot, and particularly not for the first one after such a long wait. Nonetheless, it will be interesting if, how or when the timeline is restored in the movie.
But please, let’s return to the legacy after that!! In my view, being faithful to canon does not consist in finding legal loopholes to do something entirely different, being faithful to canon means that you try to build a story which is embedded in the legacy, connects to it.

Think of this perfectly canonical plot device: Q decides to change the Trek universe into the Star Wars universe. Now who would want that?

781. hitch1969© say The OrcSter™ aint yella. - November 20, 2008

anyone remember the end of “Hooper” when old Burt Reynolds tells the director that no loss of life or injury is worth a movie because it’s only a movie, to which the director replies:

“it’s only a movie? you go tell the investors, and the studio, that ITS ONLY A MOVIE!!”

there are many hands in the pot as they say. $150 million, that’s an investment. a bad movie is forever?

$10 is an investment???

I think that this is about the time that old Burt Reynolds punched the director. Hooper is a grate movie. (adjusted for inflations, of course). I think that cost cutters got me for $17 including tip last time. I don’t let the gals trim my beard because how would a chick know how to do that? Thats a dude thing. Hey- I don’t get to wax their landing strips, now do I? Maybe I should. Maybe, I should…

=h=

782. Holger - November 20, 2008

I presume the suburbs of San Francisco stretch out into Iowa by 2240.
:-)

783. thorsten - November 20, 2008

@776 CT…

Very good musing on your side, as ususal…
I was joking of course ;))

But after you brought this up… for all we know the Vulcan Timeships are new Technology, not available around Kirks supposed death on the B…
or the Vulcans kept that tek hidden in the closet for a rainy day…

We could enter a discussion here about the consequences of Time Travel, but we should save that topic for a later day, I guess.

784. Closettrekker - November 20, 2008

#778—”The Star Trek trailer hasn’t made up my mind about seeing the film, but it has discouraged me enough that I don’t intend to see it opening night (but rather to wait to hear more about it), and for better or for worse, that’s what trailers are about. That’s what they do.”

I guess I don’t get what was so discouraging about it. The trailer was obviously geared toward convincing the average moviegoer that this would be exciting, and not the same old Star Trek they have ridiculed or ignored for years.

I choose to take the action-packed, sexy two minute trailer with a grain of salt (although I thought it looked great anyway). The filmmakers have been telling us all along that the story is very much character-driven. That’s what appealed to me most about TOS.

I am not a slave to the franchise logo either. In fact, I haven’t spent a dime on a Star Trek movie since TUC. It was always about the characters I loved and chose to invest in—-Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.

I was never more than casually interested in any other incarnation of Star Trek. I watched the movies on television, and certainly never planned my week around seeing the latest episode of the Bermanverse.

I’ve been waiting for decades for these iconic characters to be recast and brought back to life for me and for a new generation.

…the wait is over.

:)

785. Closettrekker - November 20, 2008

#780—”In my view, being faithful to canon does not consist in finding legal loopholes to do something entirely different, being faithful to canon means that you try to build a story which is embedded in the legacy, connects to it.”

That’s certainly a valid interpretation of what “being faithful to canon” means.

I think it ‘does’ connect to the legacy, and it probably will be embedded in it. As I have stated before, it seems clear to me that everything you and I know of Star Trek canon is inherently relevant to this story. It all has to happen in order to advance the story to the point where there is a change in the timeline due to Nero’s interference with it. It is therefore a continuation of the ‘same grand story’ in many ways.

Star Trek isn’t details of backstory, but characters and ideas, IMO. There is nothing which indicates to me that bigger and better action sequences somehow compromises the vision of a better and united future for Mankind.

786. earthclanbootstrap - November 20, 2008

778 S John Ross

VERY well said! I feel no urge to blindly give them my trust, but I will doubtfully continue to hope for the best.

780 Holger

As above with 778, very well said. To stretch the constitutional analogy, I’m very afraid that not only the letter but the spirit of the law is going to be violated…

787. thorsten - November 20, 2008

Closettrekker is right. The Trailer is for the masses, the whole delay from xmas 2008 to may 2009 is supposed to leave enough room to sell a new generation of moviegoers to Trek.

All I can say is I watched the trailer and the 4 sequences in a theater in Cologne with lots of journalists and movie industry folks, the smallest part people you would identify as Trekkers, and they went bananas for what they saw, like 60s girls in a Beatles concert…

I knew in that very moment that the Star Trek I loved, and missed so long, was reborn.

788. Casper - November 20, 2008

Just a note… from all indications, it sounds like the Kelvin’s fight is the “last hurrah” of the original continuity, and includes a heroic turn by a Kirk.

I’m not happy that things seem to be altered, but that statement on its own is pretty touching.

Romulans suck for this.

789. JL - November 20, 2008

784

Clostetrekker:

“I was never more than casually interested in any other incarnation of Star Trek. I watched the movies on television, and certainly never planned my week around seeing the latest episode of the Bermanverse.”

“I’ve been waiting for decades for these iconic characters to be recast and brought back to life for me and for a new generation.”

Same here — word for word.

790. JL - November 20, 2008

“…movie industry folks, the smallest part people you would identify as Trekkers, and they went bananas for what they saw, like 60s girls in a Beatles concert…”

Thorsten, that is possibly the most promising statement so far regarding the “hit” potential for this movie. That is great to hear.

791. Closettrekker - November 20, 2008

#783—”But after you brought this up… for all we know the Vulcan Timeships are new Technology, not available around Kirks supposed death on the B…
or the Vulcans kept that tek hidden in the closet for a rainy day…”

Perhaps, but given that Spock can apparently adjust his configurations for time travel using the ‘slingshot effect’ from “Tommorow Is Yesterday” and “Assignment: Earth” to accomodate a Klingon scoutship (I hate using the term “bird of prey” to describe a Klingon ship) in TVH, he probably could have done it without the special timeship depicted in this film…if he had wanted to.

For me, that ship sailed a long time ago. I think that if those in charge of Star Trek then had wanted Shatner’s Kirk alive, they wouldn’t have killed him to begin with. Now, too much time has passed in the Star Trek Universe for that to even make any sense.

However, a “flashback scene”, depicting a conversation somehow relevant to what is going on in the story between Spock and Kirk sometime before the Enterprise-B incident could have allowed Shatner’s Kirk an appearance in this film. But not having seen the movie, I couldn’t tell you with any conviction whether such a scene would have worked or not (not to mention it would obviously be a “cameo”).

I am mildly interested in a description of the scene that Bob and Alex did write for Shatner. One day we’ll hear about it. It will probably be fun to speculate over whether or not it would have worked.

792. S. John Ross - November 20, 2008

#784 sez: “I guess I don’t get what was so discouraging about it.”

Well, I never suggested it was discouraging to anyone else but me. :) If you’re sincerely curious (for whatever reason) about why it was discouraging to me, I devoted post #61 to that (see far, far above). But I’ve heard this rumor on the Internet that goes “your mileage may vary.”

Anyway, as I said, I’ve not written off the film as a theatrical viewing, simply written off seeing it without first having heard from those whose tastes I know well. If I hear enough good things from my friends who catch the Thursday night midnight screening, that could well get me in the theater by Friday night … and then the movie may well rock my world. I hope it does.

793. Closettrekker - November 20, 2008

#792—Fair enough.

794. Jason P Hunt - Kansas City Filmmaker - November 20, 2008

SciFi Channel has their take on the trailer here:

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=3&id=62312

795. JL - November 20, 2008

“I really think Kirk should be played by a dude. Someone with some manly presence.”

funny

Admittedly the guy does look a little metrosexual, but that look gets female heinies in the theater seats.

796. Xai, (Go Hawkeyes!) - November 20, 2008

Anthony Brooks Fellows – November 20, 2008

#694 and others.

Sorry bud, but IMO you are coming across as a troll hurling insults like you have. Got a reason or just trying fan the flames?

797. Holger - November 20, 2008

785: The characters are the most important elements, to be sure, but to me the legacy consists of a whole fictional universe, it has a history, technology (very cheesy, often), geography (or astrography, mostly). So my view is: Star Trek is not only the characters acting, but the characters acting within their universe.
That’s probably the reason why the surrounding details matter more to me than to you.

798. earthclanbootstrap - November 20, 2008

#770 John from Cincinnati
I don’t think we’ll ever be lucky enought to see baseball like that again in Cincy again…
Great American is a wonderful ballpark, but I sorta miss the Concrete Ashtray that was Riverfront.

799. Titan2010 - November 20, 2008

RE: 751. JL – November 20, 2008

Absolutely not. The trailer is a free download… looks awesome! Streams seemlessly too!

800. JL - November 20, 2008

799 Titan

Excellent! I be watchin’ to-NITE! Thanks, man.

801. earthclanbootstrap - November 20, 2008

# 800 and others – FYI – for all of those with an Apple TV it’s also residing in the Trailers section of the Movies menu…

802. Closettrekker - November 20, 2008

#797—-I understand. Here is where my view differs somewhat,

Beyond the basic plot points and story continuity established in live action Trek (what I consider ‘canon’), the “surrounding details” (i.e. the look of the bridge, Kirk’s eye color, McCoy’s salt shakers, etc.) are just window dressing.

I consider myself to be thoroughly versed in canon. I’ve had fun with it for over 30 years.

If the filmmakers had told me that they would be ‘honoring canon’, and then tried to tell me this kind of story without introducing the element of interference from the future creating an alternate timeline, I would most likely have been very turned off and extremely disappointed.

I would ask such questions as:

“why is Kirk so late in joining the Academy?”

“why isn’t he living on Taursus?”

“why isn’t he being depicted serving as a junior officer aboard the Republic?”

“why isn’t he teaching a class at SFA and meeting Gary Mitchell?”

“why isn’t he serving as a Lt. aboard the Farragut under Capt. Garrovick?”

“why is Kirk operating a manual transmission?”

“why is he talking to Chris Pike prior to Pike’s promotion to fleet captain?”

…and on and on.

But they are indeed explaining all of this canonically.

The original timeline not only exists, but is actually required to tell this story, and therefore inherently relevant.

Finally, we do not know how successful Nimoy’s Spock will be in preventing the Romulans from doing what they are attempting to do. Orci has made clear that there is indeed a “final solution” of which we are not yet aware.
It may very well be that the crux of the original timeline ends up intact by the end of this story. Nimoy’s Spock could be using these “alternately developed” versions of the characters to help him reset the timeline back to where it is supposed to be. We don’t know.
Of course, it is possible that the writers wished to enhance the potential for future stories by providing audiences with the element of “dramatic jeopardy” they otherwise would not have if the timeline is reset to its original form. This way, stories would not be handicapped by the knowledge of exactly how the characters’ careers and/or lives end. The characters could actually be put in such jeopardy.

I can see the potential benefits of that, and would personally rather see new stories featuring Kirk, Spock, and McCoy than any characters created in the Star Trek Universe since.

But that’s just my not-so-humble opinion.

803. Bill Peters - November 20, 2008

“Our philosophy is to never be arrogant enough to think that a sequel will be made. We are trying to just make one good movie, and if that works, Q willing, future stories will take care of themselves”. – Bob Orci-Mr. Orci then lets hope Q is willing. Q is one of my favorite Trek Alien, if you could some how get a camo of Q in a sequal (if you could) the Crew of the Enterprise wouldn’t nessacrally have to know who Q is but the fans would know….

804. Alex Rosenzweig - November 20, 2008

#797 – “The characters are the most important elements, to be sure, but to me the legacy consists of a whole fictional universe, it has a history, technology (very cheesy, often), geography (or astrography, mostly). So my view is: Star Trek is not only the characters acting, but the characters acting within their universe.
That’s probably the reason why the surrounding details matter more to me than to you.”

That’s very much how I feel, too, especially as my view of Trek continued to expand through multiple series, in multiple timeframes, in multiple media. It’s not 7 or 8 characters I’m following now, it’s a hundred or so, and the commonality among all is the world they share. Without that world, my interest begins to wane.

805. Tom - November 20, 2008

791 Closettrekker

I can’t help but think a Shatner scene would have worked. Watched Rocky V the other night. Not a great movie but the flashback scene with Stallone and Burgess Meredith was a great cameo. I think this would have been the same

806. thorsten - November 20, 2008

Damon Lindelof:
I think for us, it is mostly about capturing the world of Trek. A world in which there is a Federation of Planets. The characters are sort of interchangeable in that world. For me, I would get into a very lengthy debate with someone who says ‘I love The Next Generation, but I hate The Original Series.’ Why is that? Both of those shows function in the same universe, abide by the same rules, are set in a future that is optimistic and adventurous, and they are exploration shows. So I would have hard time saying to them ‘if you liked Deep Space Nine, you probably won’t like our movie, but if you liked Voyager you will like our movie.’ You can’t separate the shows out as far as I am concerned. I have seen more Next Gen episodes than I have seen of The Original Series, just because I was more into it and when I was growing up Next Gen was on.

807. Nero's CD Buner - November 20, 2008

706. 4 8 15 16 23 42 – November 20, 2008

You make a good point, but let’s say the problem lies in the application. Since we don’t know how powerful of a singularity Nero’s “Red Matter” device can create it’s possible that it requires the use of a planets gravity well to boost it’s own output. So let’s theorize that since it needs to be near the center of a large gravity well, a star would not be sufficient because the device would be destroyed on the surface, far from the center of the star, before it could complete whatever type of reaction to create the singularity. Therefore, attacking the star would not be as precise as attacking the planet specifically. Theoretically speaking of course.

808. Mugz - November 20, 2008

From what have read/seen of this film, is does indeed wipe away all previous Trek history. It HAS to to explain its own existance. By having Leonard Nimoy in it you immediately acknowledge the existing Trek universe and (aghhhh I hate this damned word but…) canon.

The time line is changed – the characters are visibly changed (even taking into account the obvious that they HAD to use new actors, I mean Kirk with blue eyes?!? And yet Spock looks more or less the same… Scotty’s hair has been died to look similar to the original 60s Scotty). Events we thought we knew well are different, some subtly, some ALOT.

Unless I am missing some VITAL piece of info here, it looks as if established Trek history will be re-written. I don’t actually have a problem with that, but I wish JJ would be a little more honest when he denies it being a reboot…

809. sean - November 20, 2008

#807

You forgot the most basic reason – dropping the singularity in the sun wouldn’t allow the characters to interact in the same way. Let’s face it, Trek’s technology and plots are always subject to what services the characters and story best. It’s a conceit we all accept when we sit down in a theatre.

810. sean - November 20, 2008

#808

Probably because it isn’t a straight-up reboot. He’s actually using a method within Star Trek lore to shake things up in a new way. I think it’s pretty clever, really. That way he can stay away from loaded words like ‘reboot’ yet accomplish a fresh start at the same time.

811. Jon - November 20, 2008

It looks to be a very fun movie and Im sure the characters are still intact, but face STAR TREK needs to change in order to survive. Just because it isnt canon, it shouldnt restrict the story. It isnt the bible, its a medium to tell a story. Im amazed by how many fans feel they are being jaded or cheated because TREK isnt being followed. What was the original concept? Look there, there is your answer

Space… the Final Frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before.

THAT should be STAR TREK, no one is pissing on the old, but its time for STAR TREK to change or die off. You may not like the change, but you should at least want it to get TREK back into the mainstream of our entertainment. I enjoy star trek, its ideals and perspectives are extremely unique and insightful, let us continue down that path, not whether or not something was shown or said on a previous show. Allow it to become a STAR TREK that everyone, everyone can enjoy.

So for those of you crying foul, quit complaining already and either go back to your dvd collections or buy a ticket and enjoy what looks to be a really good take on STAR TREK and move forward.

812. Neil - November 20, 2008

I think I see what needs to happen.
JJ Abrams needs to step in front of a camera and say “Okay, okay, it’s a reboot.”

And then, for some inexplicable reason, people will suddenly relent.

Can’t we just PRETEND he said it’s a reboot?

813. Orb of the Emissary - November 20, 2008

#6- yes he does! ;-)

814. thorsten - November 20, 2008

Regarding the reboot, there was actually a scene in “Casino Royale”, in which Sean Connery as old Bond from the future sends a quantum-entangled textmessage to Daniel Craigs Blackberry, but they scrapped this in the last minute…

815. Orb of the Emissary - November 20, 2008

I mean #9… OOPS!

816. Nero's CD burner - November 20, 2008

809. sean – November 20, 2008

well that’s a given. It’s just sometimes fun to wonder why it is one way and not the other without resorting to “the writers wrote it for good storytelling”. ya dig?

817. earthclanbootstrap - November 20, 2008

# 812 Neil

I still don’t think I’d relent; and I’d DEFINITELY still think that Enterprise was FUGLY! ;-)

818. Closettrekker - November 20, 2008

#805—”Not a great movie…”

lmao! That’s an understatement, and bear in mind that I’m a huge fan of the 1976 classic ‘original’, and I find the first three sequels very entertaining to this day for what they are supposed to be.

“I can’t help but think a Shatner scene would have worked…I think this would have been the same.”

As long as it were merely a flashback scene from Spock’s perspective, depicting a past conversation between Nimoy’s Spock and Shatner’s Kirk that was somehow relevant, then yes—it might have.

However, it is really impossible to fairly judge that without personal knowledge of the script and where it might have fit in without seeming overly contrite or ‘shoehorned-in’.

Personally, I haven’t seen a ‘Kirk performance’ out of Bill Shatner that was really worthy of the character to me in a long, long time—so I must admit that I wasn’t at all disappointed that it didn’t happen. I wouldn’t want to see the kind of goofy “James T. Kirk as William Shatner” performance I saw out of him the last few times out. I prefer to remember “William Shatner as James T. Kirk”, or the way it came off to me the first twenty years.

In any case, it didn’t happen…regardless of the differing opinions over its potential value.

819. John from Cincinnati - November 20, 2008

811.

If CHANGE is what they really wanted, why go back to Kirk and Crew on the good ole NCC1701? Why not really change it with new characters and a new ship?

When I first heard this was going to be a TOS era movie, I got really excited. I was also excited about JJ Abrams involvement. Since then, I have been pleasantly surprised about some thing and disappointed about other things.

Leonard Nimoy is what’s keeping me going to see this movie. I believe he wouldn’t be a part of something that would destroy the franchise that lies in the hearts of many many Trekkers.

820. JL - November 20, 2008

811

Jon, well said, I think this sentiment is agreed on by the majority of Trek fandom judging by many posts similar to yours.

Take a chance and move to see what else is out there.

Or stay stagnant in your little puddle of water.

Those are the choices IMO

821. hitch1969© say The OrcSter™ aint yella. - November 20, 2008

“Personally, I haven’t seen a ‘Kirk performance’ out of Bill Shatner that was really worthy of the character to me in a long, long time—so I must admit that I wasn’t at all disappointed that it didn’t happen. I wouldn’t want to see the kind of goofy “James T. Kirk as William Shatner” performance I saw out of him the last few times out. I prefer to remember “William Shatner as James T. Kirk”, or the way it came off to me the first twenty years.”

YES and YES and YES. Thank God there’s no Shatner in this movie. But God bless him. I love the guy.

‘sides, he would look awful next to all the skinny young kids. blecchy.

THE WOMEN!!

=h=

822. JL - November 20, 2008

818

“Personally, I haven’t seen a ‘Kirk performance’ out of Bill Shatner that was really worthy of the character to me in a long, long time…”

I was thinking the same thing myself. For me, Shatner hasn’t really nailed the Kirk character, consistently, since The Search For Spock. And although I enjoyed The Voyage Home (great movie-length episode), he looked like he was “phoning it in” most of the time…

823. Closettrekker - November 20, 2008

#808—”Unless I am missing some VITAL piece of info here, it looks as if established Trek history will be re-written.”

How so? Everything from ENT-NEM must occur just as it did, otherwise the story cannot progress to the point where anyone goes back in time to alter the past. They are not “rewriting” established events. They still happen prior to Nero/Nimoy’s Spock travelling back in time and creating an alternate timeline.

“I don’t actually have a problem with that, but I wish JJ would be a little more honest when he denies it being a reboot…”

He’s actually being very accurate. A “reboot” would disregard previous continuity. This story does not. In fact, it is inherently relevant to the story. You cannot have this altered timeline without the previous ‘canon’ culminating in the circumstances which produce the timeline incursion (presumably, the attack upon the Kelvin in 2233 and the subsequent attack upon Vulcan many years later).

He ‘should’ deny that it’s a reboot…It isn’t, nor is it a true “prequel”.

In fact, since everything prior and leading up to Nemesis must take place as it did to get to this point, it actually has more elements of a (albeit unconventional) “sequel” than it does either of the latter descriptions.

Call it a ‘seprequelboot’.

:)

824. Closettrekker - November 20, 2008

#819—-” I believe he wouldn’t be a part of something that would destroy the franchise that lies in the hearts of many many Trekkers.”

Not a chance, John. I have to believe that too.

825. fred - November 20, 2008

Has anyone else noticed the similarity between the plot setup for this film and First Contact? The bad guys goe back in time to destroy an enemy at a time before they were a threat? Hm?

826. jr - November 20, 2008

What is the RECORD for the most number of posts in any TrekMovie topic?

827. hitch1969© say The OrcSter™ aint yella. - November 20, 2008

yes fred, but no one in first contact packed a macintosh computer in their undergarments with as large a hard drive as pine.

aiiiiiight?

=h=

828. JL - November 20, 2008

825

A few have mentioned it, yes. I haven’t seen First Contact, so I wouldn’t know. (like closettrekker, I also never wanted to pay a dime to watch any of the TNG films except Generations but that was only because of The Shat)

Is the premise that similar?

Even if it is similar, that doesn’t mean XI will meet the same fate as First Contact. There are hundreds of other factors involved.

829. earthclanbootstrap - November 20, 2008

#819 and #824
With all due respect and love for Mr. Nimoy, I’d like to point out that he was willingly part of Star Trek V… ;-)

830. Alex Rosenzweig - November 20, 2008

#812 – “I think I see what needs to happen.
JJ Abrams needs to step in front of a camera and say “Okay, okay, it’s a reboot.”

And then, for some inexplicable reason, people will suddenly relent.”

i don’t see why that would make people relent. That’d only make things worse, m’thinks.

“Can’t we just PRETEND he said it’s a reboot?”

Why bother? Unless there’s a “correction” at the end of the movie, or at least something that results in only a very minimal change to the continuum (think “Yesteryear”, or perhaps “Yesterday’s Enterprise”), then no matter what mechanism they use, it’s an “effective reboot”, in that it does the same thing, it runs away from the established continuity and invents a new one going forward.

#823 – “He’s actually being very accurate. A “reboot” would disregard previous continuity. This story does not. In fact, it is inherently relevant to the story. You cannot have this altered timeline without the previous ‘canon’ culminating in the circumstances which produce the timeline incursion (presumably, the attack upon the Kelvin in 2233 and the subsequent attack upon Vulcan many years later).”

That’s sort of why I started using the phrase “effective reboot”. Assuming no correction that we don’t yet know about (I should be fair and include that caveat), it’s not a reboot in the style of BSG, which all but ignores the original (except for an occasional visual or aural reference tossed in). But it’s still a reboot in the functional sense, in that it’s recreating TOS in a way that severs the linkage, in practical terms, with the Trek Universe as it has existed for all this time.

Ironically, unless there’s a lot more time travel than we know about, when the smoke clears, ENT may well be the only Trek series that is common to both continua. ;)

831. Closettrekker - November 20, 2008

#822—”And although I enjoyed The Voyage Home (great movie-length episode), he looked like he was “phoning it in” most of the time…”

I think I was able to accept that within the context of the story. I found that the tone of that film was really conducive to that working for me.

It was ‘after’ that where I felt he was “phoning it in”, and that is a perfect way, IMO, to describe it. It no longer felt to me like he was William Shatner playing Jim Kirk, but just the opposite. All of a sudden, Kirk is an accomplished equestrian? His fantasy in the “nexus” is living on a ranch with horses and a dog?

From STV-Gen, I think Shatner was given far too much latitude with the iconic JTK, and the character suffered as a result (IMO). He was actually reined in a bit in TUC by Nick Meyer, and the result was a better movie, but I still thought that some of the scenes were poor Kirk portrayals and definitely “phoned-in” by Bill Shatner.

Somewhere down the line, he just seemed to me to cease taking the character seriously. Maybe he was bored with Jim Kirk.

Whether that’s the answer or not, this was definitely ‘not’ the same guy from TOS and the first few films to me. It was simply William Shatner in a Starfleet uniform.

832. thorsten - November 20, 2008

@830

I was thinking the same thing when Scotty mentioned Archer, Alex…

833. hitch1969© say The OrcSter™ aint yella. - November 20, 2008

Shatner killed Kirk in more ways than one.

Pine is going to do OK, I think. he sure has a macintosh loose in his trousers.

However, JC™ is James T. Kirk. And thats one cat who will never betray the character.

=h=

834. JL - November 20, 2008

829

The man *does* have a point there…

835. JDW - November 20, 2008

Hhm. It looks like there is a guy taking a piss on the bridge in this picture:

http://img.trekmovie.com/images/st09/trailer2analysis/096.jpg

Think they installed a urinal on the bridge? It might save time.

836. Closettrekker - November 20, 2008

#829—”With all due respect and love for Mr. Nimoy, I’d like to point out that he was willingly part of Star Trek V…”

Let’s be honest. His friend Bill was given the director’s chair. Even if he had looked at the script and thought to himself, “this is utter crap”, how could he have told his friend he wasn’t going to do it?

He doesn’t have history with Abrams, Orci, or Kurtzman. He doesn’t owe them anything. Just as he turned down the role in Generations, if he had thought that ‘this’ project was equally unworthy, he could have very easily said, “no, thank you”. It is not as if he just needs the money (especially considering he and his wife had recently donated over a million dollars to charity).

Instead, he not only accepted it, but has repeatedly praised everything about it. Take that for what it’s worth to you, but it’s value to me is more than miniscule. That’s for certain.

837. star trackie - November 20, 2008

#831 “Whether that’s the answer or not, this was definitely ‘not’ the same guy from TOS and the first few films to me. It was simply William Shatner in a Starfleet uniform.”

You don’t like Shatner, so it’s really no surprise his efficeiency and or beliveablility at playing Kirk, as far as you’re concerned, ended with the movie directed by him.

Personally, I see little difference between Kirk in 5,6 and Generations and Kirk of the first 4 movies. He is a bit standoffish in TMP and Shatner hasn’t quite slipped back into character at that point, but from WOK on, he seemed to be pretty consistant, at from my perspective.

But all in all, none of the movies, with the exception of portions of Trek 5, captured the spirit of Kirk from TOS, be it the fault of Shatner, the writing, the directing, or all of the above.

838. thorsten - November 20, 2008

@834

JL, remember 787

;))

I will never forget how I watched V in a place in Times Square… ugh.
I came out of the cinema an ran into a guy with a shield, screaming “The end is neigh”

839. JL - November 20, 2008

837

“But all in all, none of the movies, with the exception of portions of Trek 5, captured the spirit of Kirk from TOS…”

Oh man, you are definitely in the minority on that one.

840. star trackie - November 20, 2008

#806 “For me, I would get into a very lengthy debate with someone who says ‘I love The Next Generation, but I hate The Original Series.’ Why is that? Both of those shows function in the same universe, abide by the same rules, are set in a future that is optimistic and adventurous, and they are exploration shows. ”

I can tell you why.

Conversely, I love TOS but hate TNG. Why? For the same reason I liked The Mary TYler Moore Show but didn’t care for the dramatic spin of Lou Grant. For the same reason I like Happy Days, but the love for Joanie and Chachi escapes me.

Same universe, yes. Same execution of premise, no. TNG and TOS are not in anyway similar. The aesthetics are different. The sounds are different. The approach to lighting the sets is different. The storytelling techniques are different. The writing style is different. The approach of music is different. The format is different. All these things add to to the signature style and look and content of TOS. TNG holds none of these things in common. It does exist in the same universe, but that is where the similarities end.

Some like apples, some like oranges..but liking one doesn’t guarantee you will like the other.

841. star trackie - November 20, 2008

#839 “Oh man, you are definitely in the minority on that one.”

lol Oh well, I only have the original series as my template. If you can’t see Kirk from TOS in Trek 5, all I can do is suggest you watch the original series again.

842. JL - November 20, 2008

838

Right re: your 787

Re: the Times Square loony: A fitting ending to a perfectly awful night!!

hahaw

843. JL - November 20, 2008

841

Right on

“…all I can do is suggest you watch the original series again…”

I usually watch an episode or three every week!

: )

844. earthclanbootstrap - November 20, 2008

#836 Closettrekker

Um, I was kinda goofin’ a little bit there…

845. Closettrekker - November 20, 2008

#837—”You don’t like Shatner, so it’s really no surprise his efficeiency and or beliveablility at playing Kirk, as far as you’re concerned, ended with the movie directed by him.”

As many times as I have said this, it still seems you haven’t grasped it.

I ‘love’ William Shatner as James T. Kirk from 1965-1986. I just do not think he did the character justice beyond that point.

And I am far from the only person who thinks that STV: The Great Trek Turd Of ’89 is an awful movie, nor am I apparently the only one who believes that his performances were lacking towards the end, as evidenced by the responses in posts #821 and #822.

It is not a personal dislike. I don’t know the man.

“He is a bit standoffish in TMP”

I think he is supposed to be. He is at a point where he is feeling quite out of place and insecure as to whther he made the right decision in bullying his way back into command of the Enterprise, as evidenced by his behavior toward Decker in particular. I think he was well directed by Robert Wise in TMP, in that he ended up portraying the character exactly as he was meant to be at that point in Mr. Roddenberry’s story.

You’re free of course to have your own opinion, but I’ll stand by mine.

846. hitch1969© say The OrcSter™ aint yella. - November 20, 2008

re: nimoy

look – STV had potential on paper for Nimoy, I’m sure. PLUS he had a major role that was relative to the plot. AND his buddy Shatner and all that of course.

Nimoy’s take on Generations (the pass) was that they could take his and McCoy’s 10 lines of dialogue – pass them on to scotty and chekov without changing a word. I even agree with that. Whats the point?

two entirely different things. Of course actors dont plan to be in bad movies… i doubt that anyone plans the bad movie.

JJ is a son of priviledge. Who else got to screen ST TMP at Paramount when they were a kid or had Nick Meyer at their BAT MITZ™? However. Despite this, somehow the dude figured out how to put together compelling projects – on time, and on budget. HOW he got there is one question, how well is he at that, is another.

I’ll forego the first and the answer to the 2nd is obv. OF COURSE Nimoy signed on to this one. Its a winner of a movie and he has a winner of a part as an actor.

this isnt rocket science people. but if it was, we’d do it on the ground in Iowa and violate the F out of canon.

THE WOMEN!!

=h=

847. earthclanbootstrap - November 20, 2008

#836 Closettrekker

But to follow up to your serious response, don’t think for a moment that it doesn’t factor into the equation for me, either. And there are things regarding this movie that I do quite like. I was floored by the uniforms for instance; love them, other than as some people have mentioned the strangely missing sleeves on the ladies. More importantly, the casting has had me excited from very first names that were rolled out. Karl Urban in particular I think has the makings of a fantastic McCoy. However, it is VERY difficult for even a great performer to lift material that I find problematic, and my sense so far is that I will find it so.

848. Closettrekker - November 20, 2008

#840—”I love TOS but hate TNG”

I think that ‘hate’ might be too strong of a word, but I am certainly a TOS/original films guy too.
—holodecks
—ship’s counselors
—children on the bridge
—howling Klingons
—android pinnochios
—opera and Earl Grey tea
—USS Hilton
—excessive technobabble

No thanks. I’ll take my Star Trek in the 23rd Century.

“Same universe, yes. Same execution of premise, no. TNG and TOS are not in anyway similar. The aesthetics are different. The sounds are different. The approach to lighting the sets is different. The storytelling techniques are different. The writing style is different. The approach of music is different. The format is different. All these things add to to the signature style and look and content of TOS. TNG holds none of these things in common. It does exist in the same universe, but that is where the similarities end. ”

Agreed on all counts.

More than anything else, TNG lacked characters I wanted to invest in.

But as you said, you can either like apples or oranges, or perhaps you like both. Both are the fruit of trees, but they are not the same.

849. Closettrekker - November 20, 2008

#847—-”However, it is VERY difficult for even a great performer to lift material that I find problematic, and my sense so far is that I will find it so.”

I hope it is good enough to change your mind.

850. barrydancer - November 20, 2008

#812 – “I think I see what needs to happen.
JJ Abrams needs to step in front of a camera and say “Okay, okay, it’s a reboot.”

And then, for some inexplicable reason, people will suddenly relent.”

i don’t see why that would make people relent. That’d only make things worse, m’thinks.

“Can’t we just PRETEND he said it’s a reboot?”

Sometimes I think that would have been easier on all concerned, instead of this “quasi It’s not a reboot but it’s a reimagining but not really a prequel we don’t know what the hell it is.” Just have the balls to go all out. That way Abrams gets his new Trek, it gets to be “relevant” to today, whole new adventures, Trek gets its new blood infusion, but it doesn’t have anything to do with the old Trek. Like all the Transformers series. Same premise, many of the same characters, but totally unrelated to one another.

After all, we’ve been told from the beginning that this is an origin story we’re getting. In a way it is, but it doesn’t seem like it’s going to be the origin of the Trek universe that’s been around for 40 years, but rather the origin of the new timeline universe. I think that’s a large part of what’s made for a lot of angry Trekkies.

I still haven’t made up my mind about the film. I’m going to see it, if for only curiosity, but I haven’t decided if I”ll go to the theatre or just rent it.

851. star trackie - November 20, 2008

#845 “I ‘love’ William Shatner as James T. Kirk from 1965-1986. I just do not think he did the character justice beyond that point.”

There is the enigma. You can like “Don’t forget where we parked” Kirk, yet you dislike “…all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by.” Kirk. I don’t have to remind you that is lifted straight from TOS Kirk….apparently one of Kirk’s favs.

You like “You’re fruitier than a nutcake” Kirk, but you don’t like “I lost a brother once…” Kirk. It’s just hard for me to wrap my mind around how you can draw that distinct line between 1986 and1989.

But like you say, it’s you’re opinion….I’m not sure how in the world you arrive at it, but you’re sure welcome to have it.

852. Neil - November 20, 2008

Dear Captain Abby;

I took my girlfriend out for dinner last night. There’s this one restaurant I know she likes, but the food there was getting a little stale and bland so I took her to this new place. The food was amazing and the service was the best we’ve ever had, but she was upset because it was different.

I ordered this incredible bottle of champagne – I’d gotten a huge bonus from work, so I spent some of it on a $400 bottle of the restaurant’s finest. My girlfriend said the wine was amazing, but later admitted she was disappointed because we usually order Thunderbird.

So anyway…eventually, we went home, and proceeded to have the wildest romp in the sheets we’ve ever had. Maybe it was the wine. She reached the “Big O” about seven times. Then she got angry with me because I approached it in a different way than I have since we started dating. She agreed it was amazing, but was angry anyway.

What should I do?

Sincerely,
JJ Orci

853. earthclanbootstrap - November 20, 2008

#849 Closettrekker

I can genuinely say that I sincerely hope so as well!

854. hitch1969© say The OrcSter™ aint yella. - November 20, 2008

Neil, obv. you have experienced many many promiscuous woman and are packing a serious macintosh computer in your pants. congratulations, my friend.

=h=

855. star trackie - November 20, 2008

#8484 “I think that ‘hate’ might be too strong of a word…”

Perhaps you’re right, in retrospect I can say I did enjoy…not as Star Trek, but as good television about 5 episodes of TNG…Inner Light, Yesterdays Enterprise to name a couple. I guess it was the potential that was hinted at, yet rarely achieved that dissapoited me most. it was ultimately mediocre and forgetable…but it could have been so much more.

856. Closettrekker - November 20, 2008

#851—”There is the enigma. You can like “Don’t forget where we parked…”

As I explained before, I was accepting of his performance in STIV because it worked so well with the tone of the film. That’s hardly an “enigma”.

“… yet you dislike “…all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by.” Kirk. I don’t have to remind you that is lifted straight from TOS Kirk….apparently one of Kirk’s favs. ”

I have no problem with that line, just the ‘utter crap’ it was surrounded by.

“You like “You’re fruitier than a nutcake” Kirk…”

That happens to be James Kirk acting, if you’ll remember the context of that particular scene.

I also like his work in “A Piece Of The Action”, in which he portrays a 23rd Century starship captain pretending to talk like a 1920′s gangster…There’s a difference between Jim Kirk pretending, and William Shatner pretending. For twenty years, I thought he played the character well….Then it went south to me.

“… but you don’t like “I lost a brother once…” Kirk. ”

Again, I never said I disliked every single line he uttered in STV. There is nothing inherently wrong with that line of dialogue. I just hated his overall performance and what he presented to me as a Star Trek film as the film’s director. It’s not even just that. I could write a book on everything I thought was wrong with that movie!

“It’s just hard for me to wrap my mind around how you can draw that distinct line between 1986 and1989.”

I don’t think the line is all that distinct between 1986-1989 as far as how he treated the character. I think he carried over what he did with that character in TVH to TFF (aka TGTTO89) and beyond.

It worked for me in TVH. It didn’t in subsequent portrayals of the character. I don’t see what is so difficult to understand. It’s not a very complicated opinion.

857. Closettrekker - November 20, 2008

#855—”Perhaps you’re right, in retrospect I can say I did enjoy…not as Star Trek, but as good television about 5 episodes of TNG…Inner Light, Yesterdays Enterprise to name a couple. ”

That’s more than me. I only liked “Yesterday’s Enterprise” (I thought that was just a well-written story). Even the attempts at ‘crossing over’ with “Unification” and “Relics” came up short to me. I just didn’t like the characters or the setting enough to care.

858. John from Cincinnati - November 20, 2008

#836 Closettrekker

Agree with you on all points.

859. Zapp Branningan - November 20, 2008

Please can this film follow CANON!

860. AJ - November 20, 2008

Closettrekker:

You seem to be moderating this forum on Trek V! LOL

IMHO, TPTB wanted a repeat of the success of TVH, and it had to be “humorous.” The painful beginning with the gravity boots, and the awful comedy that ensued with the excruciating campfire scene set the tone.

Then, the crap Enterprise and Nimbus III.

What sealed the deal for me, that Shatner does not understand who Kirk is, was the scene in the shuttle. As Captain of the Enterprise, Kirk’s duty is the safety of his ship and crew.

But in STV, he escorts armed terrorists to the E in a shuttle. Real Jim Kirk would have done everything possible to destroy that shuttle, or disable idiotic Sybok, and he didn’t.

A failure on many levels.

861. earthclanbootstrap - November 20, 2008

#859 Zapp Brannigan

I think if there is one thing that we have definitively established here in 860 posts and counting it is that…
It definitely does or definitely doesn’t depending on who you talk to. Next weeks topic of discussion will involve how many Siskos can dance on the head of a pin.

862. P Technobabble - November 20, 2008

746 Earthclan “…The exact same could be said for the skeptics; ranting and raving about how great it is going to be and implying that those who don’t are whiny brats is going to change MY mind! There is plenty of room here for dissenting opinions, does that disturb you? Should this be a forum for people who only think one way?”

Sorry it took so long to respond. I agree, I don’t think anyone’s mind will be changed by either side. Some minds are already made up, so that would be a futile endeavor. I do not think anyone who is saying the movie is great, without the benefit of having seen it, is any more on the mark than those who crucify it without having seen it. Dissenting opinions do not disturb me at all, but (for some reason) it bothers me a great deal when people offer criticism in the form of mean-spirited, rude comments aimed at people they don’t know and a movie they haven’t seen. That is all that really bothers me. Why it bothers me, I don’t know, since I have nothing vested in the film. I guess it’s just that I prefer conversation that is calm, collected, thoughtful and respectful. I prefer peace over conflict. If someone says, “I don’t think this movie will work because…”, that is one thing. When someone says, “This movie sucks, JJ is destroying Star Trek, this is crap, etc.” that really annoys me, because it is unnecessary to present one’s ideas in this manner, when simple courtesy and respect will suffice. This does not need to be a one-way forum, but I will admit I enjoy discussing the film with others who are excited about the film, rather than with those who have already condemned it, primarily because I am apt to learn more from someone who is into the film, as opposed to someone who isn’t. I don’t believe in passing judgment without all the facts, and we don’t have all the facts yet. All we can do is speculate. For example, some people are really up in arms about the Enterprise being built on the ground in Iowa, yet JJ did mention that they did some shooting in San Francisco… so we don’t yet know how San Fran figures into the film, eh? Maybe things will be explained, maybe it doesn’t figure in at all. Personally, I don’t care if they show the Enterprise being grown as a Cia-pet, as long as the story is good. That’s what I ask for from every movie I lay down the cash for… a good story.
So far, I like everything as it’s coming across, but the picture is not complete yet. All we’ve heard are partial truths (teasers and spoilers), speculation and rumor. When I see the movie, I’ll decide whether or not I like it. I’m totally willing to take Bob Orci’s advice and “have an open mind.” Otherwise, I will always be a Trekkie until my breathing stops…

863. hitch1969© say The OrcSter™ aint yella. - November 20, 2008

yes P Technoboobies™, but what if someone asked you to remain open-minded about violence against women? Or child molestation?

when do we close the minds to open-mindedness? where do we draw that line?

When your breathing stops, where do you go? Is there an afterlife? Does it follow blonde hair blue eyed Jesus canon?

Who packs the mac in the pants?

=h=

864. BK613 - November 20, 2008

825
Except the Borg were idiots in the execution. They fight their way to Earth and then go back in time? So everyone knows your doing it and there is a chance something might go wrong? What a bunch of collective morons. You go back in time first and then zip blithely to Earth, assimilate the place, and boom, no one in the 24th century is the wiser.

Which is FC’s major flaw, because once Bermatrek demonstrated that the Borg could time travel, the entire galaxy should have ended up assimilated PDQ.

861
Wouldn’t “dancing”.imply a linear existence that the Sisko no longer enjoys? :-)

865. SpocksSpleen - November 20, 2008

Here’s a question for anyone who’s in a position to know..we’ve all been burned by awesome trailers before, look at ID4 for example..it had a pretty exciting trailer but when the movie came out..it was nothing like the trailer made out, it was almost a comedy in fact.
My Question is, does this new Trek trailer accurately portray the feel or the movie..or is the flavor of the film going to be different..I sincerely hope this captures the essence of whats to come..don’t do a switch & bait on us PLEASE.

I can’t stop watching the trailer…damn…!!!

866. Xplodin' Nacelle - November 20, 2008

Spock’s Timeship looks alot like Boba Fett’s Slave One from Star Wars.

867. thorsten - November 20, 2008

@865…

my answer is in post 787…

;))

868. Simon - November 20, 2008

For UK fans- Exclusive showing of The Trailer next on Sky1, after Fringe.

869. Todd - November 20, 2008

#864 – yeah the Borg’s motivation was a bit hazy in FC. First it appears they’re just trying to assimilate Earth at a weak point in our history, then trying to stop first contact, the back to assimilating again..

870. sean - November 20, 2008

#863

I understand what you’re gettin’ at there, Hitch, but let’s not compare anticipation for a movie to child molestation. Even in the name of hyperbole :)

871. Thomas - November 20, 2008

608. Starship Conductor:
“How about the Budweiser bottling plant in Van Nuys, Calif.?”

I live a couple of blocks from there. Personally, I wouldn’t want a starship that reeked of malt, would you? ;)
Maybe we’ve just discovered what the ever-busy Van Nuys Airport will be up to in the 23rd century.

872. Donn - November 20, 2008

Hmm. I have several thoughts on what has been discussed lately.

I think there’s a big difference between TOS and the films that followed, in construction, tone, and content. Obviously, TOS was episodic television; what happened in one episode stayed in one episode, sometimes right down to who Kirk was working for (UESPA, Space Command, Starfleet…). Just the way it was, and the way it was with a lot of television up to that point. Also, it was a true science fiction show: it often was a little morality play based around a “what if this kind of tech existed, what are the moral implications” kind of premise. It explored ideas like robots, alternate universes, changing of the timeline, interference in cultural development, and so forth.

The films were something different. For one thing, they were no longer isolated, stand-alone episodes that essentially “rebooted” between each one. TMP established Admiral Kirk, and the refit Enterprise. STII continues with Admiral Kirk, brings back an old enemy, kills off Spock. STII deals with the results of Genesis, brings back Spock, destroys Enterprise. And so on, you know how they go.

A result of all of this *gasp* continuity from film to film is the characters get a chance to grow, rather than stay essentially static like they were in TOS. The films were much more about the characters, and less about the science-fiction concepts that the plot was based on, although that was still there to some degree. (Or it would have just been a bunch of folks in funny uniforms talking on the bridge.)

So, to those who want to see this Star Trek movie hark more to TOS, it’s style and flavor, that is unrealistic because “Star Trek” is a film, and particularly in 2009 it must meet very different expectations than a 1966 TV show. Not just in terms of production values, the design of the ship and that crap, but the kind of story it delivers. The most you can ask is that it is more like the original cast films. If your bar is TOS or nothing… you are 40 years too late.

TGTTO89: man that cracks me up! I agree completely, of course. At the time, I watched it, and read the novel (which is actually not bad, it makes a lot more sense), and gobbled up everything I could about that movie because I had been mesmerized by STVI in the theater (my first Trek theatrical experience), and was desperate for more new Trek. Thank goodness STVI was a decent movie.

TNG vs. TOS: As I said before, TOS was a very episodic, each installment stands alone kind of show. TNG introduced a serial quality to Star Trek television. Main characters could grow, get killed off, be promoted, form relationships, and those events could be reflected and have consequences in later episodes. Many episodes had continuing storylines, spanning across seasons, and later across spin-off series.

That said, initially I don’t think the two series were as different as some think. Perhaps this has something to do with Roddenberry wanting TNG to be a remake of sorts, the style and pacing of many of those first season TNG episodes are very like TOS. The Naked Now is perhaps the most obvious example, given its direct lift of its plot, but WNOHGB, Arsenal of Freedom (a couple of my favorite episodes, BTW) and others also have this trait.

Given it’s opportunity to stay on the air longer, and its more receptive general audience, TNG was able to grow into a series quite sophisticated in its storytelling. I know I’m not completely alone when I say that while TOS is of course near and dear to my heart, as are its movies, TNG rates as a better television series. You can “debate until you’re green in the face” as to whether it is “better Star Trek,” but its success as a television series (that is, a formula for telling stories to people who want to watch) is undeniable. It may not be your cup of Star Trek, but Star Trek it is, and the most successful one to boot. Too bad its movies didn’t quite live up, but that’s a different post.

George Kirk: correct me if I’m wrong, but we don’t have any canon info on him one way or the other, do we? I keep reading the idea that “well, now that Kirk has to grow up without a father, he’s a bad boy,” implying that in the “original timeline” he didn’t. Yes, I read Best Destiny, and he’s in there, but as fine a story as that is (or is not, if you prefer), it’s not screen canon. In fact, there’s no Memory Alpha entry for either of JTK’s parents, so I don’t see how the canon cops can use this one.

I still contend that the Romulans are the only thing that are a problem, and we may yet not be seeing any altered timeline at all.

873. Sc00ny - November 20, 2008

To Mr Bob Orci,
(If you’re still out there and we haven’t scared you off) Could you please, if you can without spoiling the film, confirm yes or no to the following.

#1 The events in this film, due to time travel, create an alternate timeline and this will impact all of Trek’s future events.

#2 Some things have been changed due to this time travel, but things will revert to ‘normal’ timeline.

#3 the new enterprise looks this way for a reason and wasn’t just an ‘update’.

Thanks

874. amok time - November 20, 2008

I agree, the discusson of canon law in Star Trek is one that is like a series of overlapping circles. G.S. Kirk is the only sibling we know of from the visit to deneb where it is discovered Krk has a brother. Then we find out Kirk was a young man present When kodos the executioner played out his bit of history on Tarsus. Ouside of that, according to the books Kirk’s father was the first comander of Enterprise- the first Starship!! So canon law can be writen to fit as needed in science fiction.
That’s the joy time travel. It doesn’t matter when we first meet the Romulans because that changes now. WE were simply a part of that history unfolding BEFORE the timline changed so we know how the Romulans were first encountered in BOTH timelines. Can everyone relax now??
Look at Star Wars… You’d think the entire galaxy was related like a town in West Virginia!! THANK GOD Star Trek never took the inbred universe route….
I don’t think that we as Fans of the original series or the ones that came after need to worry much about timelimes or canon as much as we need to hope it is a good movie- one that spurs the production of more movies to keep us happy into all our yesteryears!!

875. CitadelTrekker - November 20, 2008

779- don’t forget the Viceroy falling into darkess from a bridge over a shaft below the bottom deck of the ENT-E.

I love TREK and it’s 40 yr adherence to canon, and there are still plenty of inconsistencies throughout all of that.

Why? First off TREK is written by humans who can make mistakes like Geordi calling the Stargazer a Constitution Class ship… because the fx guys didn’t tell the writing guys they had a new model and wern’t reusing the ENT-A model. LOTS of mistakes people.

All the canon violations in this movie are EXPLAINABLE! Stop worrying about it already.

some advice.. be a true TREKKER have an open mind and go see the movie… The Great Bird would want you to go.

I admit I was a little worried when I first saw the “New E” but I’ve calmed down now and I’m stoked. If Bob Orci or any of the other filmaker read this. My biggest disappointment about the movie is the rrealse date being pushed back from X-MAS! My God Jim, I Trekker not a timepiece!

876. sean - November 20, 2008

#873

How could he possibly answer any of those questions without ‘spoiling’ the movie to some degree? We just need to be patient and wait until May.

877. DJT - November 20, 2008

Wait. I just had a thought.

How do we know that “Spock Prime” is actually from the time-line we have come to know.

What if it is from the time-line that results from the end of the movie?

878. Garovorkin - November 20, 2008

#419 I think Pike doesn’t get crippled in this new time lin, again i have no problem with that, But is it possible for example that in this time line Kirk never meet Khan, never finds the Botany bay or it get found and a different set of event take place, Abrams reboot opens up all kinds of interesting scenarios, With the identity and nature of the Romulans revealed, will they come out in the open far earlier then they would have? would the Klingons and the federation become allies sooner ? , this could be quite interesting.

879. Sc00ny - November 20, 2008

#878
I’ve heard several non-trekker journalists referring to Bruce Greenwood’s Captain Pike as ‘Doomed’. I’ve the feeling he gets crunched in this film.
I’ve also read on memory-alpha.org that a Garrovick/Farragut scene was written in an earlier draft, but subsequently dropped.
I hope it still figures in the back story

880. Garovorkin - November 20, 2008

#879 they have seen the trek script that alludes to Pikes fate? Or he just gets promoted and kirk take over , but you could be right. Yeah the The Garrovick /Farragut thing should be included. I often that that that would made a very good trek story for the big screen.

881. AJ - November 20, 2008

STXI. A short film by JJ Abrams

Percussive and raucous music as a red 1967 Corvette “327″ breaks through a gate into a restricted area.. 80, 90, 100. It’s heading toward a ravine!

He’s being chased by a futuristic cop on a hoverbike! (Bieuw! Bieuw!).

The car picks up speed and breaks through the last cordon, and careens over the cliff!

The Iowan wind blows swiftly as the car falls. Then it finally impacts the rocks so far below. Boom (explode).

The policeman stops, and gets off his bike. He looks down.

“Officer 924 to Nero. Mission accomplished!”

FIN

882. P Technobabble - November 20, 2008

863 Hitch “…yes P Technoboobies™, but what if someone asked you to remain open-minded about violence against women? Or child molestation?
when do we close the minds to open-mindedness? where do we draw that line?”

Ok, I get the intention, but this is not really what you mean, eh? (I’ve already said, I’m into peace, not conflict. I’m open-minded about peace, and I think that’s what we really need to be open-minded about, cos at this time in our planet’s history it’s just a concept, more than anything. And perhaps we might feel like the world — at large — is pretty open-minded toward violence — cos it’s such a casual thing –, but I wouldn’t lend my support. And you didn’t really think I would answer, “Yes, let’s be open-minded about violence toward women and child molestation,” hmmmm?? I certainly don’t think I’ve ever said anything here that would lead anyone to believe I’m a psychotic, anti-social deviant, hell-bent on destruction, and I apologize if I have. I admit I’m a babbler, and I’m open-minded about the new movie, but really Doctor…)
As for the after-life, I think that’s for another forum on a different website…

870 Sean
That was my immediate reaction, as well…

883. Gene L. Coon was a U. S. Marine and is happy TOS is back - November 20, 2008

#872

“…Given it’s opportunity to stay on the air longer, and its more receptive general audience, TNG was able to grow into a series quite sophisticated in its storytelling. I know I’m not completely alone when I say that while TOS is of course near and dear to my heart, as are its movies, TNG rates as a better television series. You can “debate until you’re green in the face” as to whether it is “better Star Trek,” but its success as a television series (that is, a formula for telling stories to people who want to watch) is undeniable. It may not be your cup of Star Trek, but Star Trek it is, and the most successful one to boot. Too bad its movies didn’t quite live up, but that’s a different post.”

Me: Hmm. “…but its success as a television series (that is, a formula for telling stories to people who want to watch) is undeniable.” I know what you are trying to say, but I have to respectfully disagree. TNG stayed on the air longer, but I cannot agree that the longevity of its initial run equates to greater success. TOS only ran for three years. Its episodes were of widely uneven quality, yet it is arguably the most successful show ever produced in all of television history. Consider any other “successful” TV show: Seinfeld? All in the Family? MASH? Lucy? Carol Burnett? Gunsmoke? Cosby? ER? The Sopranos? None compare to Star Trek TOS. None bear as much repeated viewings. None survived very long in syndication, except Seinfeld. Seinfeld will not produce a 30 year film series.

Star Trek spawned a feature film series that will be 30 years old next December. It has had 5 spin off series. (don’t tell me TAS doesn’t count).

TNG, while solid, is just not in Star Trek’s (I don’t like to use “TOS” league. It just isn’t. It doesn’t hold up well to repeated viewings. Its characters are not as culturally iconic. It is ironically more dated than the original Star Trek. I would also argue that Star Trek as a franchise became far more “geek-niche” under the popularity of TNG than TOS ever was. Klingon language classes, online ship crews, and jurors in Starfleet uniforms.

884. thorsten - November 20, 2008

@881
very nice, AJ, I was always a fan of short fiction…
Of course you know that this will hurt the feelings of the brave Traffic Cops that freqeunt this site, hmm?

885. AJ - November 20, 2008

884:

Thorsten.

No harm intended to our brave traffic cops.

You know the point I’m trying to make. ;-)

886. barrydancer - November 20, 2008

875: CitadelTrekker

“Why? First off TREK is written by humans who can make mistakes like Geordi calling the Stargazer a Constitution Class ship… because the fx guys didn’t tell the writing guys they had a new model and wern’t reusing the ENT-A model. LOTS of mistakes people.”

Not the best example, as while LeVar Burton’s lips mouth Constitution, Constellation is what we hear. There wasn’t a mix-up between the FX and writing people. It was originally planned to use the Constitution Refit model for the Stargazer, and the episode was written and filmed as such. The FX wasn’t done simultaneously, though. They decided to create a new model in post-production, and Burton recorded a new line as a consequence.

I’m a geek. :)

887. thorsten - November 20, 2008

For sure, AJ ;)
and ene L. Coon was a U. S. Marine and is happy TOS is back…
great handle btw, what will always remain of TNG is the “Picard Maneuver”, the way Jean-Luc pulls down his sweater after rising from his chair and strolling towards the viewscreen while adressing some alien ambassador…

888. thorsten - November 20, 2008

Oh, I am a geek, too.

Trek made me one ;))

889. hitch1969© say Chaz™ Root is THE MAN. - November 20, 2008

P Technoboobies™,

Nope, I did not expect that you would endorse those things. Sometimes in order to make a finite point, a distinction… I use rather extreme examples to exaggerate the punctuation of that point. Sometimes, it’s entirely appropriate and totally works. Other times the message is lost in the method. This tends to be the case more often than not, especially in those unaccustomed to my way of writing.

P Technoboobies™ is the kewlest name I’ve seen in a while, though. You keep on, keepin’ on. Life is a garden and you dig it. etc et al.\

THE WOMEN!!

=h=

890. thorsten - November 20, 2008

More from Wired:

Director J.J. Abrams continued the worldwide roll-out of his new Star Trek prequel Wednesday, showing four extended preview clips to a capacity crowd of stars, executives, press, crew, studio employees and their various entourages at the Paramount Pictures studio theater.
SEE ALSO:
J.J. Abrams and His Stars Talk Trek at Clip Show
Bootleg Star Trek Trailer Shows Young Kirk, Spock
Star Trek Writers Brace for Impact
After showing the same clips to similar gatherings in Europe and New York, Abrams faced a mixed reaction from the media and those Trekkers lucky enough to crash the viewing parties. But Wednesday’s presentation attracted a friendlier group, as Trek was returning to its home dry dock for an event that had the back lot buzzing.
Beyond the congratulatory handshakes, hugs and air kisses thrown Abrams’ way, the real focus of attention was the footage immaculately projected in unforgiving digital clarity for curious eyes to behold. Paramount is staking its oldest and most successful TV and movie franchise on Abrams’ film, and it’s not too big a reach to suggest that Star Trek is dead as a major pop-culture player if this flick tanks when it premieres in May 2009.
The verdict? While four five-minute clips do not a movie make, it’s safe to say that Abrams’ Trek will be younger, brighter, busier and more frenetically paced than any previous incarnation. The performances are edgier and louder, but not better. The effects are spectacular and executed on a scale never attempted by any Trek film. And, while connected to Gene Roddenberry’s creation, this film is deliberately and unquestionably built in its own universe — constructing its story on the idea that the original Star Trek time line has been destroyed and must be reconstructed as closely as possible.
(Spoiler alert: Plot information follows.)
What can be safely presumed after watching the preview footage? Romulan villain Nero (played by Eric Bana) has deliberately changed the past — perhaps in an effort to purge history of that bane of all nasty aliens, James T. Kirk (Chris Pine). As a result, Kirk grows up without a dad and develops into a first-class space goof. Still, he finds his way to Starfleet Academy on the encouragement of the fatherly Captain Christopher Pike (Bruce Greenwood).
Kirk remains a stellar idiot, despite obvious aptitude, and runs afoul of Spock (Zachary Quinto) and everybody else except Leonard “Bones” McCoy (Karl Urban), who sneaks Kirk aboard the Enterprise on its maiden voyage.
If Nero is to be stopped and the Federation, the Planet Vulcan and Kirk’s future are to be saved, the Romulans must be foiled and Kirk must find a way to get his butt into the center seat of the Enterprise’s frozen-yogurt-shop-style bridge. Fortunately, the older, wiser Spock Classic (Leonard Nimoy) is on hand to aid Kirk and to act as our ambassador to the new time line — as though telling us to relax and accept that change is inevitable.
As for the look of the new set design, the Enterprise exterior is close enough to the original. But the interior seems overpopulated, disorganized and hyperkinetic. The engineering department looks like the guts of a World War II battleship after being colorized by Ikea. The bridge looks like an old Mac iBook, spreading that milky white “Barbie’s Malibu Dreamhouse” feel everywhere. We’ll have to see if anyone explains how the altered time line led Starfleet’s military designers to look to 21st-century West Hollywood boutiques for their interior decor concepts.
In the end, is it Star Trek?
That depends on how you answer one question: Was Star Trek entertaining because of the exploits and interactions of characters of Kirk, Spock, McCoy and company, or did you enjoy those characters because of the veteran actors playing them?
If it’s the latter, Abrams’ kids can’t pull off that sort of effortless chemistry and gravitas. They’re too busy running around and yelling. If it’s the former, Kirk is still a man of action, Spock is still brilliant and McCoy and Scotty are still effective comic relief.
Abrams’ vision is as much Star Trek as your eye will let it be.

891. thorsten - November 20, 2008

Quinto Spock in classic Uniform…

http://blog.wired.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/11/19/quintospock2.jpg

892. spiked canon - November 20, 2008

perfect

893. spiked canon - November 20, 2008

barrydancer is the bomb

894. David - November 20, 2008

I don’t understand all this worrying about the new movie. What we all loved is gone and it is never coming back. I am just happy that there is a new movie and if we all give it a chance we may love it. If it doesn’t work out so be it. But the TOS is dead and nothing can bring it back. Let’s hope this movie spawns a new TV series and several sequels.

895. P Technobabble - November 20, 2008

889 Hitch

the name is NOT Techno B O O B I E S….
the name is Techno B A B B L E. Mister Photon Technobabble. What’s up with that eyesight? ^Q-Q^ <—– new glasses……….

896. thorsten - November 20, 2008

@896

and I wondered all the time what the P stand for…

;))

897. SPOCKBOY - November 20, 2008

891
nice work

898. Donn - November 20, 2008

883: I will absolutely grant you, in terms of legacy, there’s only one modern TV or film property, that is at all comparable to Star Trek (1966); it was created in 1977 and it also begins with “Star.” Of course Star Trek had to happen in order for there to _be_ a TNG.

Perhaps it’s generational, but Star Trek to me looks and feels far more dated than TNG (which absolutely also has its share of ’80s moments). Both series are still obviously products of their era. For all of its forward thinking and diversity, one need only look at the costumes and, Uhura excepted, roles of the female characters in Star Trek, and their treatment by the males, to find it pretty sexist by today’s standards. Star Trek also on more than one occasion breaks into a musical interlude that pretty well dates it.

I find TNG’s better episodes stand up very well to repeat viewings. I think what we have here really is a matter of taste, not objective qualification. I suppose if I have to make an argument for explaining Star Trek’s cultural success, versus TNG’s (as far as ratings and longevity–people were quite shocked that it was signing off after seven seasons), it would be that Star Trek had the benefit, and the curse, of coming first. It was slow to find an audience during its first run (though it did make money, of course), but it sowed the seeds for its own syndicated success and the inspiration for almost too many spinoffs to try to count.

My original point, which I think you took, was that for all the slagging that TNG and later installments (including the 2009 film) are taking from those that prefer the original Star Trek series, the cat has long been out of the bag. As tastes have changed, so has the nature of Star Trek series, and now we have this new fangled film. It is, indeed, not your father’s Star Trek, but it is an appeal to what is popular now to bridge the gap.

A second point, though largely subjective, is that, cultural icons and which actually came first and established such cliches as “Beam me up Scotty” and “He’s dead Jim” aside, if you put Star Trek (1966) right alongside any three seasons of Star Trek: The Next Generation (but particularly second season onward), and even putting aside production values… I say TNG is the better television show. It is more consistent, it has better character development, story arcs, and approaches more closely the “cerebral” quality of The Cage. Picard does not need to get his shirt ripped off every other week–in fact many (and many of the best) episodes feature no violence whatsoever. (Measure of a Man, Inner Light, Where No One Has Gone Before, Disaster, and many others come to mind, without looking at a list.)

I’m going to get a lot of flak for that, but there it is. Not even the point of this page or site, I know. But it’s worth discussing our different opinions on the various incarnations of Star Trek as we embark on a new one.

899. Can't Wait for Labor Day 2009 - November 20, 2008

The Wired article I swear could have been written by the guy over at chud.com who has been crying for Star Treks death since Nemesis. My general feeling is that this movie will play well with general audiences. Critics will most likely be mixed on the movie but my feeling is who cares I stopped listening to critics along time ago.

900. I Am Morg Not Eymorg - November 20, 2008

898. Donn-

I would argue that the reason that TOS became the cultural phenomena it became was it was colorful, fun, exciting and had characters that became beloved by a wide group of TV watchers. It should be remembered that Kirk, Spock and McCoy are known by a the mainstream audience as well as the hardcore Trek fan. Kirk and Spock have become like Sherlock Holmes, James Bond, Superman, Batman and Tarzan.

To me TNG was duller, less interesting and far less exciting than TOS. Which is why I have been a fan of the latter for over 40 years and I am not a fan of the former.

The trailer and the info I have seen so far have made me think this movie promises to be exciting, colorful and fun. And features the characters I enjoy.

901. Seven of Four - November 21, 2008

We need to accept that Trek as we knew it is gone. I’m OK with that. Trek was stale and was rehashing its stories and concepts over and over again. Our Trek has run its course.

Star Trek is dead. Long live Star Trek!

902. JL - November 21, 2008

860

“What sealed the deal for me, that Shatner does not understand who Kirk is, was the scene in the shuttle. As Captain of the Enterprise, Kirk’s duty is the safety of his ship and crew. But in STV, he escorts armed terrorists to the E in a shuttle. Real Jim Kirk would have done everything possible to destroy that shuttle, or disable idiotic Sybok, and he didn’t. A failure on many levels.”

AJ, 100% correct, sir. I was also shocked that Kirk would be so out of character. In the book Star Trek Movie Memories, Shatner tries to explain/justify Kirk’s behavior during this sequence — and to me it just does not fly.

903. Randall - November 21, 2008

#669 Bob Orci:

Bob, thanks for the courtesy of the reply. Look, from what I’ve seen, I think this is going to be a very good film. I have few worries about that. Whether you get a non-Star Trek audience in to shore up the numbers… well, I hope so. Certainly Paramount must think you guys can manage that, since they put up so much cash. And even in these times when the so-called professionals seem to be doing everything wrong, I still hold some faith in the pros who’ve been doing crap for a while and KNOW what they’re doing. Not all business types are greedy incompetents. :-)

Honestly, my only concern from what I see is for the character of Kirk, as I’ve said. I’m keeping my mind open and I’m staying hopeful. You seem like a decent guy who didn’t want to just f**k around, but wanted to do a good thing. “A” for effort no matter what then.

Now one other thing… if there IS a future ST film… can we have one that ISN’T a freakin’ “battle in space” thing? Can’t we do cool sci-fi and action another way? It just gets old, is all. How about something… scary? Something eerie and weird? That’s another facet of science fiction that’s gotten lost in recent years… and it WAS a major facet of the original Star Trek, if you think about it… the two pilots were right out of “The Outer Limits,” which is the kind of eerie, creepy thing I’m talking about. Star Trek used to do that very well… then later, in the various new series and the films, they walked away from that totally. Making Star Trek “cool” again would be neatly serviced by bringing some of that back.

Just MY suggestion… think of the story possibilities, after all. :-)

904. barrydancer - November 21, 2008

893: spiked canon
“barrydancer is the bomb”

Why, thank you, sir. :)

905. Jordan - November 21, 2008

903: Randall

I agree, I love the eerie and weird SF. I bet Abrams could do a great one after seeing the Cloverfield monster flick. It was pretty classic form of SF and honestly one of the best SF films I’d seen in a long time along the lines of Sunshine or the BSG miniseries. Star Trek is a little bit of a different tack though… but I’m thinking we’ll see shades of that and a little deeper meaning thrown into the mix as well but first and foremost it has to entertain.

Cloverfield was a great comment and portrait of people caught between government action and a leviathan they knew nothing about. For ST I’m hoping to see a good action adventure that leaves me thinking about something interesting. We’ll see what happens but I’m pretty happy with what i see.

I’m sure I’m not the only occasional lurker who finds the canon-drooling wankfest here to be hilarious and ridiculous.

If you want to reminisce about oooold star trek, (which I love but you have to admit… the last 4 seasons of DS9 and basically all of Voy were pretty campy… even some of TNG) then you have 3 seasons of TOS, 2 seasons of TAS, 7 seasons of TNG, 7 seasons of DS9, 7 seasons of VOY and 4 seasons of ENT on top of 10 movies.

Who would take anyone seriously who wanted more of the same. There’s really nothing to debate here. It will be a great new movie that will stand or fall by its own merits.

906. Randall - November 21, 2008

#905 Jordan:

Exactly. I think Star Trek has to change. Or, as I would put it—it has to return to its roots. And when I say its roots I mean its ROOTS. The original series and where IT came from in terms of sci-fi. It can be updated, yes—it HAS to be (and it looks like they’ve successfully done that) but it also has to go back and reinvigorate itself based on what it originally came out of — the iconic traditions that drove the stories and characters. Because there’s something timeless embedded in that.

And yes, from Cloverfield one can guess that Abrams or his people could pull off a weird/creepy/eerie Star Trek. And I think it would strike a real chord with people.

Think about the episodes of the original series that hit it with people big. Some of the positive reactions were based on the feel of a whole episode, where people just dug the story and the drama, or the situation the characters were thrust into: Tomorrow is Yesterday, City on the Edge of Forever, Amok Time, Journey to Babel… so on. But there were also some *moments* in Star Trek, individual bits and pieces–even from less-than-stellar episodes—that remain with people because of their impact—which was often an impact based on effective eeriness and weirdness. I’m thinking of The Man Trap, for instance… the whole Salt Vampire thing. Or Devil in the Dark (which of course also worked well as an episode overall); Charlie X; the unbelievably creepy and scary moments in Where No Man Has Gone Before and The Menagerie; some of the individual scenes in The Galileo Seven, The Return of the Archons, Obsession, and of course Wolf in the Fold and Catspaw. The Tholian Web is another with scenes like that, and a certain feeling of otherworldly weirdness and creepiness (dead bodies all over the place on a ghost ship for starters). Some of the weirdness in That Which Survives and the Savage Curtain. All of these have examples in them of the kind of thing I’m talking about, that regularly crept into the original series as a rule—because it was part of science fiction and taken as such. There’s a well-established link between Horror and Sci-Fi after all. And “horror” isn’t just about mad slashers and Freddie Kreugers. It’s about creepiness and weirdness and the sense of being in a nightmare. And sometimes the original Star Trek produced great moments of that—just moments here and there–little dreamlike/nightmarish moments that were very effective. Just like the Outer Limits and the Twilight Zone and all the old weird suspense and thriller radio shows from ages ago.

Put THAT shit back into Star Trek—and you’d grab people, I think.

907. Jordan - November 21, 2008

I think some of the creepiness of the original series was lost on me! I remember finding Night Terrors and Schisms and Genesis pretty creepy though. Love to see something like that on a bigger scale. But for me they didn’t really carry the franchise like the best of both worlds or unification or redemption.

But yes, it’s not that I didn’t love the original franchises. But it’s been done and if something new can be brought to it, I’m interested!

I remember listening to Gene Roddenberry on the second disc of the TMP soundtrack I had a while back and he said something along the lines of, the best trek was a solid action adventure that caught peoples attention and when their guard is down, you can slip a big idea in. I really think this movie has the potential to do that. So i’m pretty happy about it. And I really don’t care about canon. But I’m not as die hard as some people I guess.

908. Lt. Andrew Rogers - November 21, 2008

Has anyone mentioned previously that it looks as though the new Captain’s stripes are three solid bars and not two solid with a broken middle?

909. Christine - November 21, 2008

907. Jordan

“…he said something along the lines of, the best trek was a solid action adventure that caught peoples attention and when their guard is down, you can slip a big idea in. I really think this movie has the potential to do that. So i’m pretty happy about it. And I really don’t care about canon. But I’m not as die hard as some people I guess….”

Wise words on Roddenberry’s part. :3 I, too, have a strong feeling Abrams will have achieved this when we see the movie come out.

I care about canon, but I won’t obsess. Continuity has never been exactly right-on through the entire series… xD After all, the Klingons changed looks HOW many times? (Though they did give reasons for that… heheh..)

910. VulcanLover - November 21, 2008

The Med Tech isn’t Kelvin Yu.

911. Bob Dobalina - November 21, 2008

#860 “Real Jim Kirk would have done everything possible to destroy that shuttle, or disable idiotic Sybok, and he didn’t. ”

You gotta be kidding me? “Real Jim Kirk” would have done any number of things differently from the series to the movies. The reason fictional people don’t do things realistically is because it would end the movie!! The story depends on cerain things NOT happening…that allows the story to progress. If realism or “smarter scenarios” were brought into fiction the stories would never be told.

And yeah, the tired old Shatner bashers who don’t want to see any Shat/Kirk mannerisms in the pic because it would be “laughed at” are just too late to the party. They think it’s still 1983 and that stand up comedians are still doing the “shatner school of bad acting.”…oblivious to the recent emmys, golden globe and all out popularity of Mr. Shatner.

And as far as TNG vs TOS….well it’s no argument there, quite literally, one IS Star Trek, while the other is not. One could and did exist without the other, while the other did not. TOS wrote the book, TNG rewrote the book….but make no mistake…the book that IS “STAR TREK” was written in 1966. Period.

912. Jamie - November 21, 2008

Some of the conversations here seem oddly out of date.

We’re way past comments like: “I think a TOS movie might be a good idea, as long as they try to stay true to the original”. That’s the sort of thing people might have said 5 years ago. But we’re past that.

We’ve been discussing these issues for months/years. Controversy over canon-bending has been on everyone’s tongues. The film has been more or less in the can for a while now and we finally have a full trailer (with a detailed analysis above).

We’re way past expressing our hopes for the basic concept of the film!

913. Gene L. Coon was a U. S. Marine and is happy TOS is back - November 21, 2008

# 887.

For sure, AJ ;)
and Gene L. Coon was a U. S. Marine and is happy TOS is back…
great handle btw,

Me: Thanks, bro!

#898 Donn

You make some interesting points. It must be generational. I am a 44 year old guy who watched Star Trek every night in grade school on channel 11 at 6pm. By the time TNG came on the air, I was a Lt in the Marines, and never had the time or inclination to get into it. I have seen many TNG episodes, but they never grabbed me. Had TNG come first, and I saw it as a 10 year old little guy, I would probably feel the same way about TNG.

Your post gave me the opportunity to make one of my favorite points. That Original Star Trek is the single most successful TV show ever produced. It further lets me get in a plug for Gene L. Coon, who is chiefly responsible for the realistic military (not “militaristic” there is a difference) feel that TOS had. It has been argued the Capt Kirk is one of the best rendered examples of heroic American military leadership ever created. Coon is responsible for most of the details that made him so.

TNG is a wonderful show. I just subjectively enjoy TOS more. THe idea that one or the other stands up to repeated viewings beter is probably due to the emotional attachment you feel for the characters. On that score, I prefer visiting with the Originals.

914. Popozuda - November 21, 2008

Awesome. The original canon is gone and we have a brand new one. The 1701 is now built on Iowa. SF sucks anyway.

915. S. John Ross - November 21, 2008

#912: “We’re way past expressing our hopes for the basic concept of the film!”

I think it may be more accurate to say that we’re currently in a lull away from the relevance of that topic. If this new movie shows up, flashes, fizzles and then vanishes from memory a month later, we’ll once again be able to return to those subjects :)

But I agree that, right now, there’s not much point.

916. thorsten - November 22, 2008

@913

hey, GLCUSMCTOS… sorry for the shorthand, but I don’t want to drop that capital G again ;))

I really liked the influence Coon had on Kirk… which made him one of my all time heroes. I have a good friend in NYC who is an Ex-Marine, he served in Korea and became a postal worker afterwards, and with you there are two Marine regular posters here… Respect, guys.

Semper Fi

917. Gene L. Coon was a U. S. Marine and is happy TOS is back - November 22, 2008

@913

hey, GLCUSMCTOS… sorry for the shorthand, but I don’t want to drop that capital G again ;))

I really liked the influence Coon had on Kirk… which made him one of my all time heroes. I have a good friend in NYC who is an Ex-Marine, he served in Korea and became a postal worker afterwards, and with you there are two Marine regular posters here… Respect, guys.

Semper Fi

Me:

Don’t forget Closettrekker! He’s the real deal. I just dabble.

918. thorsten - November 22, 2008

of course not, he is the other one…
and he figured it all out ;))

919. simon - November 22, 2008

anyone know what the music is used in the trailer?

920. Marian Ciobanu - November 22, 2008

- This is the first Star Trek MEGA MOVIE so i just can’t wait to see the movie…
nice work indeed…!!!

921. thorsten - November 22, 2008

@919

part of it is here, simon…

http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?i=81316606&id=81316864&s=143443

922. RD - November 23, 2008

Anybody notice that Spock’s skin tone is exactly the same as Kirk’s when standing side-by-side?

Looks like Abrams chickened out and stopped Spock’s alien transformation at the ears to make him more marketable. I guess he no longer has green copper-based blood. Looks like McCoy has just lost a lot of fodder for his insult mill.

I just noticed this after viewing a re-mastered episode where Spock’s green make-up really stands out against the “pink-skins”. Since the trailer is HD, any difference in Spok’s skin tone should be equally apparent, especially in shots with humans. Instead, many of Spok’s shots give him clearly rosey-red highlights. Very disappointing Abrams would do this. At a bare minimum Spock should be paler than the other actors.

923. Christine - November 26, 2008

“…. I am a 44 year old guy who watched Star Trek every night in grade school on channel 11 at 6pm. By the time TNG came on the air, I was a Lt in the Marines, and never had the time or inclination to get into it. I have seen many TNG episodes, but they never grabbed me. Had TNG come first, and I saw it as a 10 year old little guy, I would probably feel the same way about TNG.
….

TNG is a wonderful show. I just subjectively enjoy TOS more. THe idea that one or the other stands up to repeated viewings beter is probably due to the emotional attachment you feel for the characters. On that score, I prefer visiting with the Originals….”

It’s really interesting you say that, because I /am/ a 15-year-old girl, and I feel quite the same way. I love TNG, but TOS will always be my favourite. Again, it’s that “emotional attachment” you get with the characters. I felt like in TOS, moreso than TNG, they all had their little quirks that really made them distinct.

Of course, though, I’ll always love Picard and his crew, and Archer and his crew (from Enterprise). ^___^

924. Fiz - November 30, 2008

I am NOT looking forward to this film because of all the blatant canon violations. There was one more that wasn’t pointed out in this article. Why does Sarek have a British accent??? Where the hell did that come from?! Granted, it hard to find someone with such a unique voice as Mark Leonard. But BRITISH??? This makes about as much sense as Kirk wearing a “Go Climb A Rock” t-shirt in Trek V.

925. Gunfighter - December 16, 2008

It can’t be at San Francisco,
They don’t believe in the idea of war, that’s why they kicked the military out, so why would they agree to a starfleet headquarters. Or maybe San Francisco is the dump.

926. Hawaiowa - February 5, 2009

The first shot in the sequence is intriguing. In the background are two arcologies (the tall distant structures in the first sequence with tween Kirk.) Since they’re so close together, I would imagine them to be Cedar Rapids and Iowa City, assuming that the Enterprise is being built somewhere near Riverside Iowa. Ground-level perspective-wise, this would be accurate from a topological sense, as Riverside is within 50 miles of both cities.

Why arcologies in Iowa and not SF? To make the state more ‘green’ and increase amount of farmland, which is somewhat reflective of the current trending towards ecological conscience in the US. Conjecture is that agricultural states would use arcologies to minimize urban sprawl, maximize farmland. Hybrid strains of corn that would go from seed to harvest in one month to increase food production.

Why build the Enterprise on the ground? Because it’s less expensive in terms of materials and manpower, and more efficient in terms of on-site engineering/testing. If this version of Trek is realistic in the Clarke/Forward/Benford sorta scientific sense, it cannot rely on ‘Idiot Plot’ devices like ‘anyone can go anywhere for free, without having to worry about things like fuel or cost’. Building it in orbit would require shuttling people back and forth between the orbit dock and Earth. A humorous example based on the International Space Station’s recent situation could apply here (the toilets don’t work, so you have to fly the plumber up in a shuttlecraft to fix ‘em). Another thought: If Enterprise is Starfleet’s flagship, then it’s the best of the best in terms of science and engineering. An analogy would be that it is the ‘Space Shuttle’ or ‘Pioneer’ of it’s era. To do anything that really leaps forward and pushes the technology envelope, the resources mandated to accomplish such an endeavor are prodigious. We’re learning that with trying to maintain a permanently manned space station in orbit. Thus, realistically, it’s analogous to the ISS scenario where module components are build in labs then flown up into orbit. To me, these would be just some of the justifications to build the Enterprise on the ground: efficiency to make sure that all that cutting-edge technology is in the groove.

If Nero is a major threat, then Starfleet has to make certain that they get it frellin’ right when they build the Enterprise (had to throw in a bone to Farscape since so many are saying frakkin ala BSG in their posts).

Enjoyed read through all your posts…

927. SmartRemarks » The new Star Trek trailer: boldly going awry? - February 19, 2009

[...] it was released online this week, for all the world to see. And comment upon. (And satirize. And annotate shot-by-shot. Yes, while I would never deny my own geek status, there are people in this world who score much [...]

928. sarpedion92 - February 21, 2009

fans are complaining that this film is going to riun the trek canon but i don’t that’s true. this film will probably be like the voy ep year of hell where in the end the timeline is set back to its origanol timeline and after the story ends the older spock goes back to his own timeline and fix all the damage the romulans did and everything goes back to normal even the part where kirk doesn’t know how drive a stick shift am i right or am i wrong?

929. scott - April 2, 2009

another movie i wont be watching unless I take those sickness pills again…sigh. Will someone plaese stop filming with the “tweaker Cam” and use a steady cam again? Ruins an otherwise great film.

930. James Random - April 8, 2009

There are a number of problems with your analysis of this trailer. Let me detail them.

1) You can’t know that there aren’t any quarries in Iowa in the 2300′s.

2) You do not know whether, when kirk is viewing the Enterprise’s construction that 1) It is actually the enterprise (The enterprise was not the first of its class) and 2) that he is still in Iowa (this scene apparently being at least 10-15 years later).

3) The cop is a man. Even in the 24th century Starfleet (and indeed the federation) had not perfected artificial intelligence and automata

4)Kirk meeting the Romulans before Balance of Terror is not against the Canon. These romulans are from the 24th century and not a part of the Romulan Star Empire (or the Romulan Imperial State). They are Romulan Pirates.

5)It has never been suggested in Star Trek history that Kirk only ever met Kirk after his promotion to Captain.

6) This is a reboot movie. It technically has nothing to do with Star Trek as we know it.

931. Jagged Pixel - April 22, 2009

Please tell me there is not really this much time being spent on worrying whether the E was built in Iowa or San Fran… It wasn’t built at all. That’s where fiction fits in… The gall derned danged ol franchise needed an update and it’ll get one. Enjoy the story.

932. TREK MOVIES:”STAR TREK” Y SU NUEVA BANDA SONORA. « AMIGOS TREK CHILE - May 8, 2009

[...] Trailer #2 (first ‘theatrical trailer’ also recut as ‘TV Spot  #1) [...]

933. gummy pritchett - May 11, 2009

this movie was the shit i saw it twice and my favorite part was when the enterprise came out of saturns moons fog and appeard and nero didnt know it . this movie was bad ass. im going to see it again!!!!!

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