UPDATE: Intel Updates Star Trek Site With USS Kelvin Ship & Crew Details/Images + New Contest | TrekMovie.com
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UPDATE: Intel Updates Star Trek Site With USS Kelvin Ship & Crew Details/Images + New Contest November 28, 2008

by TrekMovie.com Staff , Filed under: Star Trek (2009 film) , trackback

UPDATE: Intel, a promotional partner for the new Star Trek movie, has updated their boldlygo.intel.com site with an interactive tour of the USS Kelvin revealing more images and details of the ship and its crew. There is also new contest site with a Kelvin desktop, a sweepstakes for a laptop and a promise of a 2009 contest for tickets to the premiere of the Star Trek movie. [SPOILERS]

 

UPDATE: USS Kelvin Interactive at Main Intel site
The main boldblygo.intel.com/ has been updated with a new section on the USS Kelvin. After entering the site, click on the USS Kelvin image on the right and it will access a 3D interactive image of the Kelvin that includes many ‘clickable’ info areas.


Interactive tour of the USS Kelvin

Kelvin’s bridge crew
When you click on the ‘THE BRIDGE’ you can learn about four members of the Kelvin bridge crew:


USS Kelvin Bridge Crew

The images reveal bits of the Kelvin uniforms which appear different than the uniforms seen in the trailer for the USS Enterprise crew. As TrekMovie has previously reported, the USS Kelvin will be seen over 20 years before the launch of the USS Enterprise.


Kelvin bridge (with a nice window)

More Kelvin tecnhobabble on phasers, engines + more   
Other parts of the interactive tour are just chock full of glorious Star Trek tecnhobabble. When you click on the PHASER TURRETS you find out:

The Kelvin’s phaser turrets can either fire bolts of high concentrated energy, or beams of less power to slice through the shield or hull of an attacking vessel. Plasma is passed to a phaser emitter resulting in a discharge of nadion particles


USS Kelvin’s phaser turrets

The site also resolves an ongoing debate on whether or not the Kelvin has one or two warp nacelles. And apparently there is just one, when you click on NACELLE you learn:

The Kelvin has a single warp nacelle housing the ship’s warp drive engine. Two rows of massive semi-circular warp-field coils produce a powerful subspace field that bends space around the ship, allowing for faster than light travel.


USS Kelvin only needs one nacelle

And when you click on IMPULSE ENGINE you learn:

The USS Kelvin employs massive engines at sublight speeds. Full impulse power is approximately one-quarter of the speed of light, suitable for traveling within a single star system. Its four deuterium fusion reactors power the impulse engines.


Four fusion reactors power the Kelvin’s impulse engine

The other areas you can click on are: HANGER BAY and NAVIGATIONAL DEFLECTOR.


USS Kelvin’s deflector dish


USS Kelvin’s hanger bay

Respect for the Treknology
Some fans have worried that this new film will be re-writing the book on Trek, but from the above we can see that one they are paying attention to is the technical manual. Deflectors, shuttles, warp, impulse, deuterium reactors, phasers, and even nadion particles are all part of Star Trek canon. It even appears that they are trying to ‘bridge the gap’ here in terms of Star Trek Enterprise and The Original Series, with the phaser turrets. Obviously those making this film did their homework when it came to Trek tech.

 

NEW CONTEST SITE
Visit the ‘New Frontiers’ contest site at boldblygo.intel.com/newfrontiers

Get the desktop – find out something about the Kelvin
To get the new desktop you click on ‘QUIZ’ and answer four questions. The first two are about Lenovo laptops and the second two are about Star Trek, with the third question asking how many deuterium fusion reactors power the Kelvin’s impulse engines. The answers to the questions are found by exploring the site before you start the quiz. When done you can download the image below in multiple sizes [note: image is very similar to one already available at the main Intel Trek site].


New USS Kelvin Desktop

2008 Contest for laptop + 2009 Contest to include premiere tickets
If you click on ‘SWEEPSTAKES’ you can enter a contest to win a laptop or a messenger bag. This is the same bag Intel gave out at Comic Con over the summer.

Like the main boldlygo.intel.com site itself, this contest site looks like it will be adding more. If you click on ‘FUTURE FRONTIERS’ you can sign up for updates and they promise a new contest ‘starting in 2009′ where you ‘Build your crew’ and win many prizes including four tickets to the premiere of the movie.


Check out the new site

More at boldblygo.intel.com/newfrontiers

 

Comments

1. EM - November 28, 2008

Neat. Love it!!

2. RM10019 - November 28, 2008

this is great. glad to see more promotional tie-ins!

3. T2 - November 28, 2008

i’ll bet it’s only the beginning…

4. CanuckLou - November 28, 2008

NonUS residents get the shaft … again. :(

5. michael-adam - November 28, 2008

isnt it the same image of the USS kelvin from the ‘database’ section of the intel site?

6. Vorus - November 28, 2008

@ 5 Yeah, it’s the same image. I have it as my desktop now, and I didn’t have to answer any stupid quiz questions at all.

7. Jason Lee - November 28, 2008

Huh. I answered all four questions correctly, including the one about the number of reactors that power the Kelvin’s impulse engines, even without exploring the site or doing any research. The first two were fairly obvious and the fourth was a total gimme for any Trek fan, but three was an absolute guess. Either I got lucky or any of the four choices is “correct.”

8. Harry Ballz - November 28, 2008

Why are only U.S. residents allowed to enter these contests?

I’m sure if any of us consumers from around the world were wanting to buy this company’s product, they’d be more than happy to take our MONEY!

9. Ralph - November 28, 2008

Wow. A sponser like Intel for the movie. I guess they liked what they saw.

10. Al - November 28, 2008

I still think they keep printing the picture of the ship upside down. Nacelles on top, deflector on bottom. It’s the Law

11. That Nutty Fanboy - November 28, 2008

#7, you get to the image no matter what you pick as an answer. If you pick wrong it simply tells you so, gives you the correct answer and proceeds anyway. Lame.

12. Jim - November 28, 2008

I saw a comercial for some phone compay yesterday. The woman is talking to a friend about a phone, then she gives her the vulcan neck pinch. It was awesome. I love promotional tie ins.

13. captain shroom - November 28, 2008

I use a Mac so doesn’t matter if I’m a US or Scottish citizen.
Wait, does the iBridge use PCs? Get Jobs on the iPhone!

14. SpocksSpleen - November 28, 2008

I fixed the wallpaper, took out the logos and centered it a bit more guys:
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=usskelvinwallpaperjmp16vh5.jpg

15. Unlucky Gorn - November 28, 2008

Wait, the Kelvin has a WINDOW instead of a view screen?? :(

http://boldlygo.intel.com/newfrontiers/1600x1200_wallpaper.htm

16. captain shroom - November 28, 2008

15

Yeah, I wondered about that too. The canon-ites are going to have a stroke.

17. thorsten - November 28, 2008

The Enterprise bridge has at least one window, too… with heads up displays ;))

18. captain shroom - November 28, 2008

Bah, who needs a screen anyway? They didn’t at the end of Nemesis.

19. ucdom - November 28, 2008

#10

The Reliant had its nacelles below the saucer and funny little engineering ‘thing’ above the saucer, so the Kelvin’s legit methinks.

20. CmdrR - November 28, 2008

Does this mean the fan productions are going to start incorporating the new production look? Wouldn’t it be funny if they hit the net with a new story before XI hits the big screen… ooops!

21. SpocksSpleen - November 28, 2008

LOL yea it seems a forcefield did a good job so why bother with a screen!?!
A view screen seems a bit silly now especially when a lot of people have one in their living rooms;)

” 18. captain shroom – November 28, 2008

Bah, who needs a screen anyway? They didn’t at the end of Nemesis.

22. OhioMike - November 28, 2008

The Kelvin information page has been updated, too… You can now look at a 3D rotation of the ship… The design looks good, and very TOS to me, but good God… that nacelle is HUGE!

23. Izbot - November 28, 2008

10. Al –
“I still think they keep printing the picture of the ship upside down. Nacelles on top, deflector on bottom. It’s the Law”

It looks to me like that is the (single) nacelle on top with a secondary hull (and one would assume deflector in front of it) below the saucer. Don’t see a problem with this.

24. garen - November 28, 2008

this reminded me of the Star Trek 20 questions online game that started online months and months ago. I just went there to play online…to see if it was any smarter than it was when it first started. It doesnt seem like its any better..or worse at guessing.

Anyone else play lately.

25. NCC-73515 - November 28, 2008

It’s an old picture and the contest is only for US residents.
Bad news…

26. James - November 28, 2008

@23:

Check the 3D rotation of the Kelvin at boldlygo.intel.com. It clearly states that the nacelle is underneath the saucer section, and the secondary hull, containing the ‘hangar’ (I think they mean shuttlebay) and main deflector, is above the saucer section.

And yes, the nacelle is huge!

27. Viking - November 28, 2008

That wallpaper has been there since the site went up – I had it on this rig until I scored floor seats to see Trans-Siberian Orchestra next month, so now they’re my desktop-du-jour. LOL

28. I am not Herbert - November 28, 2008

That 3D view of the Kelvin is pretty cool! =)

I’m kinda hoping that we spend more time in the movie with the Kelvin than the Enterprise. Since the Kelvin looks much more like a TOS style ship from the outside, hopefully it will from the inside as well! Can’t wait to see the bridge of the Kelvin!

The Enterprise iBridge has WAY to many spot lights etc; I wouldn’t be surprised if the cast suffered retinal damage… the Conn looks like a Nintendo Wii controller chair. Far too much “Star Wars fantasy” styling for a serious Sci-Fi Starship like the Enterprise. I’m kinda hoping that it actually turns out to be the bridge of the Kobayashi Maru “pressure cooker” simulation.

29. Daniel Broadway - November 28, 2008

At the other previous Intel Site, they now have a 3D turnable of the Kelvin that can be viewed from any angle. Check it out…

https://boldlygo.intel.com/content/index.html

Just go there and click the U.S.S. Kelvin monitor on the right. It will bring up an interactive 3D model of the Kelvin.

30. Jim Durdan - November 28, 2008

The site does give a piece of interesting information, and this may be the first time that we have a “cannon” answer to how fast full impulse speed is. The site states that 100% impulse is .25c. I had always thought that full impulse was a higher percentage of the speed of light then .25c.

31. LostonNCC1701 - November 28, 2008

4 Deuterium fusion reactors! Our first technobabble for the new movie!

32. OneBuckFilms - November 28, 2008

23, 26: If you click on the Bridge in the top view, there is a selection of Bridge officers.

Minor spoilers ;-)

Oh, and I think they occasionally referred to the Shullte Bay as the Hangar Deck in the original series.

33. Anthony Pascale - November 28, 2008

actually the desktop is different, although very close, to the one at the main intel site

34. captain shroom - November 28, 2008

The uniforms of the Kelvin crew look interesting. The description of the hangar makes it sound as if they don’t have or use transporters. Hmmm

The latter part of the nacelle (albeit large) has detailing very familiar to TOS Enterprise.

Oh, so much for a Trekker to chew on…

35. Prologic9 - November 28, 2008

There’s actually quite a bit of new content when you explore the 3D kelvin.

Notice the Kelvin’s uniforms appear different than the Enterprise ones we’ve seen, They’re solid with a zipper in front. And that alien looks cool.

36. CmdrR - November 28, 2008

Anthony —
email me. I’d love to get you on the air (via satellite unless you’re coming to Atlanta) to talk Trek.

37. strangelove - November 28, 2008

wow did enybody see the security officer of the kelvin;-)
i love j.j :-D

38. ucdom - November 28, 2008

Wow, that’s great – when do we get one of these for the Enterprise?!!!

39. OneBuckFilms - November 28, 2008

34 – I think they probably do have transporters.

The thing is, the Transporter is impractical for large amounts of matter, since the pattern buffers need a cooldown and purge cycle between uses.

Also, the amount of power to transport something too big becomes a practical issue, and the pattern buffers can only store so much quantum data.

And if the Transporters are out, the ship still needs to be able to function, hence the hangar bay and shuttles.

Star Trek: TMP has the enterprise Cargo Bays attached to the shuttle bay/hangar deck.

RE: Window rather than Viewer

It could be that the Window gets extra protection during battle situations, and turns into a heads-up display.

By showing a physical window in the Kelvin, then having a viewer that simulates a window on the Enterprise, shows a progression of technology between generations of Starship.

Also, the Kelvin looks more primitive and industrial than the Enterprise in the movie, further hilighting the progression.

BTW, the crew profiles have interesting backgrounds … ;-)

40. strangelove - November 28, 2008

i dont wana repeat myself, but:
OMFG how cool ist that security officer:-D???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

41. Anthony Pascale - November 28, 2008

Thanks guys I updated the article

42. Joe - November 28, 2008

are we in for Cage-esque uniforms or ENT-era jumpsuits?

43. Kaych - November 28, 2008

By the way Anthony, Alnschloss K’Bentayr is from Monchezke, Beta QUANDRANT, not just Beta.

44. Automated Police Unit 924 - November 28, 2008

is anyone else experiencing problems with the 3d kelvin? i seem to crash each time i click on one of the highlited (sp?) areas.

45. ucdom - November 28, 2008

#44

Nope, works for me. Looks brilliant!!!

I…. need…. a clip….of the….SCORE

PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE MG

46. Anthony Pascale - November 28, 2008

I have added the images of the Kelvin Bridge crew for people having issues with the site

47. hell - November 28, 2008

boldlygo.intel.com/ – doesn’t work under Trekker friendly Linux operating systems. Thats very worse … :-(

48. Chris Basken - November 28, 2008

Anyone think the security officer is a nod to Arex from TAS?

Was that his name? The three-armed red-skinned guy…

49. Enterprise - November 28, 2008

Wow, great website.

50. Sc00ny - November 28, 2008

I love it. I wasn’t sure of the Kelin at first but I like it. Looks like a tanker or something.
Orci; tell Church it’s not bad

51. JusticeBoy - November 28, 2008

Alnschloss K’Bentayr! Awesome!

And Nebula Class nacelles are on the bottom, too.

52. OneBuckFilms - November 28, 2008

48 – Mr. Arex.

53. HerbieZ - November 28, 2008

Excellent, nice to see some detailed aliens as oppose to humans with about a millimetre of latex on their face and calling them alien…

54. charliebob - November 28, 2008

I thought I would point out the rotating image of the Kelvin has more than the bridge and the phaser turrets. Rotate is horizontally and you get these images bringing it to 6 clickable things:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/cptpierce4077/deflector.jpg
Deflector Dish
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/cptpierce4077/hanger.jpg
Hanger Bay
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/cptpierce4077/impulse.jpg
Impulse Engines.

This help anyone :)

55. Jordan - November 28, 2008

Holy Shit! Now THAT looks like an alien.

56. rationaloptamism. - November 28, 2008

48-

I thought that too, and had to look up Arex’s species to make sure. It’s not, but could be a nod, like you say.

57. Rick Sternbach - November 28, 2008

Well, it’s nice to see somebody read the TNG Tech Manual for things like the fusion reactors and the nadion particle involvement in phaser beams. Should I be asking for royalties? :)

58. OneBuckFilms - November 28, 2008

57 – You should. They have the budget for it ;-)

59. charliebob - November 28, 2008

Hi Rick,
the Manual is fantastic. Just so you know :)

60. Dom - November 28, 2008

So the ‘old’ uniforms are all one colour. Nice nod to The Cage and WNMHGB!

61. charliebob - November 28, 2008

They really do seem to have done their research for the movie which is fantastic. I have a good feeling about this … and very little doubt!

62. tk421 - November 28, 2008

Arex!

63. OneBuckFilms - November 28, 2008

The article is a little incorrect though. The Warp Engine, or Warp Core, should be in the secondary hull, between the Navigational Deflector/Long Range Sensor array and the Hangar bay?

I’m glad to see the amount of respect they are showing for Trek technology and nomenclature.

Just nitpicking …

BTW, Rick, what do you make of the window at the front of the Bridge?

64. HMS Enterprise - November 28, 2008

Cool. love the exterior graphic and close up images, which are presumably actual images from the film?

65. Drew - November 28, 2008

#63 – Get a life, Its just a movie

66. Rick Sternbach - November 28, 2008

#63 – No reason it’s actually the Bridge we’re looking into, but I suppose it could be. As long as they’ve got a big-ass flat screen main viewer somewhere along the centerline, it’s okay. But it does remind me of a certain starship Nimbus, where the Captain orders “Activate glass window, Kif.” Or words to that effect. :)

67. Anthony Pascale - November 28, 2008

RE: ‘article incorrect’?
well the article says what the Intel site says, which was presumably run by the folks at Paramount. And maybe the engine in this case is in the nacelle.

68. OneBuckFilms - November 28, 2008

65. Got a life. Just having fun ;-)

66 – Thanks for the reply. Reminds me of the original Battlestar Galactica.

“Positive Shield” …

69. Dr. Image - November 28, 2008

I’m liking this ship!
Like the Grissom, it grows on you.
Should have done the movie with just IT.

70. OneBuckFilms - November 28, 2008

67. Sorry, I meant Intel’s. Could be true from a certain point of view, I suppose.

71. Sean4000 - November 28, 2008

I like how this fills in the pre-TOS, and apparently (correct me if I’m wrong) pre-Cage, post ENT. This is cool! Turrets are a nice touch. Great alien. Sure wish ILM had put that level of care into the Krystal Skull alien, lame. LOL.

Beautiful FX rendering.

72. Rick Sternbach - November 28, 2008

#63 also – There has been some discussion over the years that early starships might not have had a central warp reactor core, but instead saw the matter and antimatter injected directly into the hollow space down the center of each nacelle. The resulting blast of hot plasma would have had the same effect on the materials in the coils, that of warping space. You’d just be missing the plasma conduits and pulsing core we were used to seeing on TMP and TNG era ships. I could believe that the engineering set in TOS was the place where the matter and antimatter were preheated and carefully measured out to go shooting up the pylons to the nacelles, and no core chamber ever existed until the refit. I don’t suspect the new film folks knew any of this, of course, but it can be used as a bit of rationalization if necessary.

73. fred - November 28, 2008

It looks more natural to me to have the warp nacelle on the top and the secondary hull on the bottom, but I can live with it. Unlike the Enterprise from the last TYV series, it actually LOOKS like an earlier version of Starfleet tech.

74. Dom - November 28, 2008

Here’s hoping we get Arex and M’Ress in a sequel! The moment I saw the security officer, I thought: Arex!!

75. Enterprise - November 28, 2008

I thought of Species 4872

76. Chris Pike - November 28, 2008

Wo, this is more like it – some real thought gone into the background stuff. Even almost direct quotes off the Making of Star Trek from the 70’s (based on GR’s writers’ “bible”) (ie the ingenious deflector principle). At first glance it looked like this new film version had overlooked this stuff, so very pleased to see it is considered important. Very much liking the Kelvin, maybe even more than the new E. It really has an authentic feel as a predecessor to the E – even more to the classic MJ original. The “pulse” phaser suggestion reminds me of the early weapons used in “Balance of Terror”, some nice thinking there. Very encouraged to see the embracing of Treknology! And Rick deserves some residuals!!

77. Christopher L. Bennett - November 28, 2008

Is Johnson played by Jeffery Hauser?

78. G-Grasper - November 28, 2008

Cool, you can see the crew-members in the bridge-dome.
K’Bentayr looks like an hommage to Lt. Arex from the “Animated Series”.
I like the phaser-cannons and the shuttles, they used them as fighters.
The shuttles looks like the good old classic Galileo 7 from TOS.
1+ (in US: A+) for that good stuff, very cool design! Thanks for the add!

@trekmovie.com
Sorry but I have to ask again:
When will you post your “THE CAGE REMASTERED”-Review?
In europe Season 2 and 3 will arrive in MAY!!!!
Its hard to wait soooo long! In all US-Forums, the people honored
THE CAGE REMASTERED for it’s fantastic new effects.

79. SpocksSpleen - November 28, 2008

Rick I always loved the work you did I really hope they will get you on board for future movies/shows

80. Legion, J.G. - November 28, 2008

Alnschloss does have some resemblence to Arex

http://bildupload.sro.at/a/images/1-anschloss_arex.jpg

81. OneBuckFilms - November 28, 2008

72 – Sounds logical, and I’d say that safety and efficiency would necessitate the eventual change to a separate warp core.

BTW, I love your work on the TNG Tech manual. It’s great fun to see things really well fleshed out to add reality to our 23rd/24th Centory fantasy. Thanks for that !!!

It’s also possible to term the Nacelles and injenction mechanism combined as the “Warp engine”, since they are all components of the same basic mechanism.

82. Anthony Pascale - November 28, 2008

Hauser may be Johnson, we will check on it. I do know that Hauser is a member of the Kelvin crew.

RE: Cage review
patience, i said it was coming and it is coming

83. Anthony Pascale - November 28, 2008

Rick

great of you to drop by and drop some some lowdown on the Treknology.

84. Chris Pike - November 28, 2008

72 Rick, I kind of rationaled that was the case in retro fitting ideas to the OS version, that the matter/antimatter were combined in the nacelle instelf rather than a (refit) pre chamber or warp core, hence the cap lighting effect. Nicely explains the visual difference in the refit engineering room version, too. I believe it was suggested somewhere way back for TOS that the antimatter storage chambers were housed in the nacelles rather than engineering – part of the reason it was considered safer to have nacelles detachable and a distance away from habitable ship areas.

85. Jon S. - November 28, 2008

Dilithium crystals? Nadion particles? Deuterium fusion reactors? Clearly they aren’t respecting canon!

Oh, wait…

86. Enterprise - November 28, 2008

I think there’s a dude in the Council in Trek IV, that looks like the alien.

87. Rick Sternbach - November 28, 2008

#79 – Thanks for the thumbs up. I don’t for a moment believe it will happen, but never say never. Truth is, and I’ve mentioned this before, a passable incarnation of Star Trek can be made by most any group of people willing to do some research. Most of the clues are out there for the taking. The truly -awesome- Star Trek, I believe, is still waiting to be made. I think it’ll take more of the “legacy” folks who have gobs of knowledge stored away, plus the newer designers who “get it,” like some of the CG modelers we’ve seen on the TrekBBS and even some physical kit modders who have done some very cool things in styrene and resin.

88. G-Grasper - November 28, 2008

Thanks Tony!

89. fred - November 28, 2008

I’m betting that the window actually is the screen which can be activated, but so they won’t be blind to what’s outside if there is no power. Double-duty.

90. Databrain - November 28, 2008

Alnschloss K’Bentayr is another blatant stab against Canon. While it is an interesting looking alien it does resemble something more out of starwars than star trek. Such an alien was never featured in star trek prior to the emergence of species 8472 in voyager. Arguably the tholians were perhaps the strangest intelligent species that weren’t ‘god like’ encountered up until the time of the next generation. And I don’t think they were entirely physical beings.

And the reason I am bringing up canon, once again, is that the creators of this film keep saying there will be canon resolution. Does that mean this alien will have only existed in this ‘alternate time line’? It’s getting kind of silly. They might as well have darth vader in it and attribute it to the alternate time line plot.

91. Sc00ny - November 28, 2008

Rick Sternbach,

Hello/ Happy Thanksgiving and thanks for joining us here again.
Great to have you here, especially on this article thread, very fitting.
Great to talk to you, I built all your designs as model kits, and still have them! Magic.

Question:
I wondered, as you have had an exclusive look at the ‘ortho’ of the new Enterprise, are you like many others now warming to its design?
Not as bad as all that? Just a bad angle?

Seems to me that the ship is more faithfull than it seemed at first in the initial image released.

PS Anthony, please book this man for an interview or a web chat, maybe when we get more images/angles of the new Enterprise, if he’ll be so kind.
I for one would love to read it. Maybe have posters submit questions?

92. Rick Sternbach - November 28, 2008

#84 – I suspect that the nacelle cap lighting was always intended to call attention to a collector-type device. Remember, Bob Bussard’s initial paper on interstellar ramjets came out IIRC in 1960, before TOS was solidified, so it’s quite possible that the concept worked it’s way into the TOS Ent design, even if the function was never named or used onscreen. I didn’t get the chance to ask Matt Jefferies about this specifically, so we can’t know for absolutely certain. From the design standpoint, though, it makes a lot of sense. As I mentioned previously, even I violated the clear view of space for the nacelles, but I could explain those cases as utilizing biased pre-intake ionization and field shaping. Yeah, that’s the ticket.

93. SpocksSpleen - November 28, 2008

Wtf are you talking about, did they not have non human bridge officers in the Animated Trek? Or is that not cannon anymore.

90. Databrain – November 28, 2008

Alnschloss K’Bentayr is another blatant stab against Canon.

94. Pete359 - November 28, 2008

You know, I’m as excited as anyone about this movie but sometimes I get the impression that J.J. is leaning too much towards Star Wars. The alien, Alnschloss K’Bentayr from Monchezke in the Beta Quadrant for example. Now I’m all for CG aliens, that’s not my problem. But why make up an all new alien that sounds incredibly Star Warsy? Why not take one of the countless alien names that have been heard of and never seen? Fill in the blanks, keep the same CG model but attach it to a familiar name.

The Phaser turrents are fine with me…. as long as they aren’t on the Enterprise. The Kelvin is no problem, even though I doubt they did it for this reason, but it’s closer to the NX-01 in that regard.

Okay, there’s an Orion. But will we see a Tellarite at Starfleet Command? Andorian cadets at Starfleet Academy? The only alien I’ve seen among those red-jump suit wearing cadets has been some unknown alien with a big brown bald head and some weird alien women who looks nothing like any alien we’ve seen. And those black uniforms from this spy shot look like Star Destroyer/Death Star officer uniforms.

http://moviespill.com/wp-content/uploads/TrekSet.JPG

The Star Trek universe has plenty to offer, even though they’re going for a new audience they can still use the information at their disposal. The new audiences will have no idea who the Tholians or the Gorn are, but then again they’ll have no idea what Monchezke is, so why not use Regulus? Or the Denebians? All heard of, never seen.

95. Just a Fan - November 28, 2008

Databrain

I don’t post a lot here, but that post deserves a reply as I think it may be the saddest post I have ever seen.

The above article is full of fun new stuff and shows a lot of respect for trek with all the talk about dueterium, and phaser turrets and those uniforms do look like they are a bridge of ENT and TOS….all fun stuff and very exciting.

And when you look at it you see it as “another blatant stab against Canon”….wow. You really cannot have any fun can you. It seems like you and those like you view Star Trek in such a strict sense that you really cant enjoy it anymore. You are so absurdly rigid in your thinking that you say any new Trek film maker cannot even create new alien species. Star Trek is about exploring new worlds and new civilizations, but it appears all you want to see is old worlds and old civiliations.

I really feel sorry for you….I loved the above article and it made me so excited, more than other stuff that has come out recently. It is so sad that people like you cannot enjoy what is just a form of entertainment.

96. Enterprise - November 28, 2008

Yeah, I agree. I can get more excited about this movie than the books and fan films that come and go over the years.

97. McCoy's Gall Bladder - November 28, 2008

Somewhere out there in an official publication The red tips of the Warp engines are called Bussard Collectors. And I think I heard the phrase once on TNG.

Larry Niven was a big Bussard proponent, but his ship designs were different…

98. Rick Sternbach - November 28, 2008

#91 – I admit I was perhaps a bit hasty in my comments on this board about not warming up to the new Ent design, but even with the passage of time, I can’t say that I like it, or the fact that it’s sitting on gantries in Iowa, or the interiors. I don’t see a unifying style in the design elements that I can understand or believe fits in the known ST universe. Even if this Ent is the result of changes to the familiar timeline (the original TOS ship never happened because somebody critical to the project died, etc.), I still can’t say I like the new shapes or textures. I don’t absolutely hate it; that’s on the left side of the number line and I’m not going there. Simply not liking it is different; that’s either neutral or maybe just a bit in positive territory. I believe that the major assemblies of the design don’t completely work together (refit-ish saucer vs. slippery curve pylons and nacelles), from the single still image and a couple of orthographic images I’ve seen. Again, that’s just me. If they do interesting things with the ship within the story, that would be a good thing. We’ll see.

99. Rick Sternbach - November 28, 2008

#97 – We finally named them on TNG, so it became official from 1987-on.

100. McCoy's Gall Bladder - November 28, 2008

I dont give a damn about the aliens being non cannon as much as I am the NCC

IN the real navy cruisers are called CA for Cruiser, Armored (heavy) and CC for Cruiser, Command. NCC in the real US or UK navy would mean New Command Cruiser. Which would make sense for the Connie class Enterprise. Everyone goes by what Matt Jefferies said, “NCC looks cool” and again never thought it through.

A Battleship is BB
A Carrier is CA
Cruiser CC or CA or CL
Miranda Class should be a CL Cruiser, Light or a CS, Cruiser, Strike
Kelvin should be a DD, Destroyer

But that isn’t canon, because MJ said a stupid thing. Calling it Naval Construction Contract is fanon reverse abreviation-ating, and just making things up.

101. Anthony Pascale - November 28, 2008

RE: Star wars in Star Trek
In my review of the four scenes preview I noted that I did not want to see Star Wars invade the characters, especially Kirk. Which I dont think has happened.

But Star Wars is an amazing saga and it has elements I welcome in Trek and one of those is certainly creature effects. That being said, I believe the above alien could be done with makeup and puppetry. I do know that Abrams has tried to minimize CGI creatures in this film. Obviously the frozen planet monster is CGI, but I think Alnschloss is actually done with make-up. That being said some of the cgi creature work is great. There is a guy in the Iowa Bar scene with a face done in CGI that really steals the scene as Kirk and Uhura banter with him in the middle.

It is not being a disloyal Trekkie to recognize that with the bigger budgets of the SW films comes some goodies. And now Trek has those goodies too.

102. McCoy's Gall Bladder - November 28, 2008

Hi Rick :-)

Love your work!

103. Enterprise - November 28, 2008

So, uh, what does a deflector dish do anyway? Does it create the shields around the ship? What powers it?

104. Odradek - November 28, 2008

Hello Mr. Sternbach,

thanks for your insightful posts

105. Legion, J.G. - November 28, 2008

Mr. Sternbach, this is probably the umptenth some fan came along and told you how awesome your work was, but since you are here….well…thank you ;)

And since this news is about the Kelvin – what do you think about it?

106. McCoy's Gall Bladder - November 28, 2008

An intelligent engineer would design the deflector as a separate system from the shields.

The deflector moves space debris out of the way of the ship

The shields are a force field that blocks high energy. Note that a slow moving/low kinetic energy object can “pass through” the shields. A person can walk through them.

107. Rick Sternbach - November 28, 2008

#103 – Read your TNG Tech Manual. :)

Oh, all right; it emits various types of EM fields to push dust and debris away from the centerline flight path. The visible grid on most “modern” Trek ships creates the defensive fields against weapons. The two systems are similar but usually separate. The big dish is powered by the either the impulse fusion reactors or the warp core or both, depending on energy requirements. The EM emissions can be tailored for a variety of jobs beyond simply dust-clearing, like cleaning up planet atmospheres, screwing up the Borg, distant com, etc.

That’ll be $25.00.

108. McCoy's Gall Bladder - November 28, 2008

Being a disloyal Trekkie would be someone who wants lightsabres and JarJar Binkes on the Enterprise

I like Shatner singing Your Way to Lucas and doing a can can with a chorus of Stormtroopers

I still wanna punch Lucas in the face though.

I just dont like his face…

109. Enterprise - November 28, 2008

Wow, that’s awesome. Thanks.

110. Rick Sternbach - November 28, 2008

#105 – Actually, I think the Kelvin’s pretty cool. Familiar shapes with some fun stuff like the turrets. The nacelle could have used some fiddly bits like the intercoolers, only a little more primitive. And I might have flipped the nacelle and the secondary hull positions, but that’s a very minor nit.

111. rationaloptamism. - November 28, 2008

Not to mention the fact that all you have to do is mention Lt. Arex, and boom!
Databrains little rational goes out the window.

What, do you think they just discovered his race, only after TOS ended?

How many worlds in the Federation?
How many races we haven’t seen, or even heard mentioned?

112. Odradek - November 28, 2008

Mr. Sternbach,
sorry that I’m not up to date, but is there a current tv show you work on ?

113. Pete359 - November 28, 2008

#101

Anthony, not sure if you were responding to my comments or just speaking generally. But while I admit Star Wars is a fine series (the original ones anyway) I think Star Trek has always triumphed in distinguishing itself. As much as it pains me to say but Star Trek has always been bumpy-fore headed aliens, but there was more charactisation in those because actors controlled the performances so closely. Now if they can achieve a Gollum level of detail and emotion then go at it. But if these are just more generic snarling Species 8472’s or plain Greedo masks, ie lifeless, then they shouldn’t be used.

But like I said, I don’t mind CG aliens… provided they’re done well.

They still should’ve said this guy was a Deneb native or something. He could have made a crack about Nero being a Denebian slime devil while the ship was under attack.

Instead he looks and sounds like he’s from the system neighboring Kamino in the Outer Rim.

114. Rick Sternbach - November 28, 2008

#112 – Nothing at the moment. I run a little company called Space Model Systems, Inc., but wouldn’t turn down a production gig if offered, of course.

115. Dr. Image - November 28, 2008

#98 Rick- Welcome again. You are another voice of reason.
Your comment- “refit-ish saucer vs. slippery curve pylons and nacelles” is exactly the main issue I too have had with the new E. At least the Kelvin exhibits a design unity. The E is quite disturbingly disjointed.
And #87 I also agree. There are so many that “get it” out there, including yourself, it’s a shame more weren’t allowed in- for now.
There are always possibilities!

116. Tony Whitehead - November 28, 2008

Mr. Sternbach,

I want to commend you, the Okudas and everyone else involved throughout your tenure as members of the design crew of the franchise, both televised and in the features. The patience and thoughtfulness that you and the team displayed in these creations were obviously more than ‘just another gig’ but were truly labors of love and it’s an honor to have the opportunity to be able to tell you this in person.

117. charliebob - November 28, 2008

Hey Rick,

When I first read the space model systems name for some reason I thought of simulating objects in space (ie computer simulations)…guess that’s what happens when you’re a geek like me. That’s the stuff I’m working on (simulating the motions of planets using computer programs).

It’s quite fascinating how we physicists are working on stuff like real warp drive (it’s theoretically possible by bending space which isn’t hard to do and means we can move objects faster than light without them actually moving faster than light).

Sorry, now I’m being nerdish aren’t I? :P

118. AJ - November 28, 2008

This is all terrific stuff.

It’s been said before, but the Kelvin reminds me of a ship from that ‘other’ Technical manual, the Scout/Destroyer, except they threw in a secondary hull up top. It was disconcerting at first, but it works for me,

119. Enterprise - November 28, 2008

I love space movies. Star Wars (yes I even like the prequels), are awesome for action.

I think the Classic Trek movies with Kirk and Spock had SW style visuals, but with classic Trek characters. Who could forget the awesome Reliant – Enterprise space battles in II? We never got that in the series.

120. fred - November 28, 2008

To say that any aliens we see that weren’t seen on the old show are against canon is plumb silly. It’s a big galaxy, and the old show had a small makeup budget.

121. Legion, J.G. - November 28, 2008

#118 Well we could always pretend it to be a Saladin/Hermes. In fact I think it could to be a Saladin/Hermes, with a exchangable upper part – like the nebula class vessels.

122. AJ - November 28, 2008

And no photorps, canonistas. Won’t be installed ’til Tuesday, I reckon.

123. Union Carbide - November 28, 2008

People, it’s not hard. Compare:

http://www.ricksternbach.com/TheEgg.jpg

vs.

http://ryanchurch.com/images/professional/WotW/finalheadCONCEPTwk5.jpg

You may relax. We’re in good hands.

“You know who the critics are? — those who have failed in literature and the arts.” –Benjamin Disraeli

124. Tony Whitehead - November 28, 2008

120. fred.

I agree with that statement. Consider the Tholians, the Excalbians from ‘The Savage Curtain’, or the Melkotians from ‘Spectre of the Gun’. Its time to welcome a realistic new alien species into the Federation.

125. The TOS Purist aka The Purolator - November 28, 2008

FOR ALL MY FELLOW CANON-ITES!!!
A window for the viewscreen isn’t a horrible thing. If we look at the Cage-era “Enterprise” filming model, we can see that the viewscreen WAS originally a window: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y38/Deloravius/Star%20Trek/2008%20Movie/P25_7_circa66_6.jpg

So the “viewscreen window” issue is actually adhering to canon. They would have broken canon if they HADN’T made the viewscreen an actual window!

#72 – Wow Mr. Sternbach, I didn’t know anyone else knew that pre-TNG ships didn’t have warp cores – thanks SO much for the explanation!! Would you be ever so kind as to give us more of your thoughts on how the TOS engines worked – including the role dilithium crystals played? I’m thinking they were used a lot like how uranium or plutonium is used in nuclear reactors, and that it was mostly used for generating power for all the seperate systems aboard the ship, including the nacelles.

126. Daniel Broadway - November 28, 2008

# 92 Rick Sternbach

Your knowledge of starship function impresses me. I’d be interested to see what you would do if you had been charged with the design of the new Enterprise.

Perhaps if you find yourself with free time, you might knock out a couple of examples one day. I think that would be neat to see.

127. Dom - November 28, 2008

Rick did some splendid work on Star Trek, as did many others. But there’s a new team in and I can only take it as a positive that Rick and Daren disagree with decisions made for this film.

For me that shows that the new team have different opinions (equally as valid opinions at that!) and are now taking the design aesthetic in a new direction.

As a design layman, I think it looks way cool seeing the Big E being built on Earth and am can’t wait to see a lot more of it in action!

The fact that we’ve got away from the eye-rollingly predictable mashed-nose/bumpy-forehead look for non-humans can only be a good thing. TAS had lots of intriguing designs for non-humanoid species which can now be realised via advanced animatronics and CGI.

Given the human actors appear not to be forced to underplay their roles anymore, I think we’re getting more positive signs as we go along.

128. Enterprise - November 28, 2008

I hate to be the guy behind the Enterprise when it takes off.

129. Union Carbide - November 28, 2008

Or don’t dilute the field by giving thoughts away free. Save your value those who can pay.

General advice, but invoked by 126 Daniel Broadway’s remark.

130. Pat Payne - November 28, 2008

“Harry Ballz – November 28, 2008
Why are only U.S. residents allowed to enter these contests?

I’m sure if any of us consumers from around the world were wanting to buy this company’s product, they’d be more than happy to take our MONEY!”

They have to because many countries either ban outright or place restrictions on sweepstakes — for instance in Canada, random draw sweepstakes are forbidden, but “tests of skill” contests are OK. And so, rather than have to navigate the minefields of international law (can they do this in Ruritania, but won’t that violate Freedonia’s laws?), they just restrict the contest to the US, where they are sure of the legal footing.

131. Drew - November 28, 2008

Wait a minute how can this be a glass window, or transparent aluminum, plus have a HUD display in front of it? Isn’t this too advanced for the 23rd century? I mean, not only did TOS Enterprise not have a mix of glass and viewscreen, nor in any of the 24th Century ships of the TNG, DS9 or VGR. This is a pretty unnecessary design I feel. It just feels….wrong….it feels completely out of place in Star Trek Universe. I can’t say I like this concept at all. And what’s worse, it looks as if the Enterpise of this film will have a mix of window and HUD. I like the overall design of the Kelvin and the new Enterprise, but this design feature is ruining the old viewscreen design. Damn, damn and damn, what a bummer….well for me anyway. I hope I warm to this.

132. Prologic9 - November 28, 2008

I’ve always wondered why Trek ships really needed a deflector dish, because wouldn’t all that debris be effected by the warp field as well, and thus not actually be traveling at harmful speeds?

#127, There’s nothing good about experienced designers disapproving of the new Trek’s shtick, and that’s generally the opinion you’ll find amongst them all, whether they’ve worked on Trek or not. From what I’ve heard it sounds like the Enterprise’s look was dictated too strictly by those acting out of ignorance. Much like the NX-01 incidentally.

There’s too much “its gotta look like this–but different,” and “make it look good” is all but forgotten.

133. Databrain - November 28, 2008

‘Consider the Tholians, the Excalbians from ‘The Savage Curtain’, or the Melkotians from ‘Spectre of the Gun’. Its time to welcome a realistic new alien species into the Federation.’

The only problem with this reasoning is that the species is not mentioned anywhere in the 5 television series nor any of the films. It would be more apt to introduce them in a future time-line rather than a past time-line. If the film was set in the 25th century, that would be fine. Seeing as how it is set in an era where there is little spoken (in the original series) about species serving aboard starships other than vulcans, and perhaps some andorians, it is kind of a lame move. As someone else pointed out, it would have been more prudent to let it be a species mentioned before but never heard of, and also have it only be a temporary post.

134. Databrain - November 28, 2008

*never seen* I meant.

135. Cmdr. Roykirk - November 28, 2008

I can’t access anything on the Intel site. Anyone else having that problem?

136. Sc00ny - November 28, 2008

RE #98. Rick Sternbach

Thanks very much for replying.
Solid comments and opinions and on the Kelvin too.
Thanks for sharing with us.

137. Drew - November 28, 2008

Databrain, I agree with what you say. I mean I think it also echoes some of the races in Enterpise, like the Xindi and the Denobulans. We never hear of them in the consequent eras. It’s like they have conveniently been erased from the databanks or become extinct. They should really have picked a species that we know only sparse details about, and have never seen depicted on screen. But then that would require a lot more work in terms of research, so it looks as if the writers ans designers were lazy in this area.

138. RTC - November 28, 2008

#90 Databrain, so are you suggesting that, in order to maintain canon/continuity, there can be no truly ‘alien’ looking aliens in JJ’s movie because nearly all TOS aliens looked like humans? That’s not an argument for canon, that’s an argument for Abrams to make the new Trek film in his garage with a camcorder, Christmas lights and a bag from Max Factor. Roddenberry would have loved to have bizarre-looking creatures like this one in his 1960s series, but budget and technology kept him from doing it. It’s 40 years later; there’s no reason JJ can’t expand the evolutionary universe a little.

139. Enterprise - November 28, 2008

It’s also one of the reasons Lucas went and filmed his prequels. He could finally do huge battle scenes, and have lots of aliens because the tech couldn’t do it in the OT movies.

140. Databrain - November 28, 2008

‘Databrain, I agree with what you say. I mean I think it also echoes some of the races in Enterpise, like the Xindi and the Denobulans. We never hear of them in the consequent eras. It’s like they have conveniently been erased from the databanks or become extinct. They should really have picked a species that we know only sparse details about, and have never seen depicted on screen. But then that would require a lot more work in terms of research, so it looks as if the writers ans designers were lazy in this area.’

I actually do not include the ‘enterprise’ series in my perception of trek, I think it was the lamest trek show ever produced. It was almost as if the producers had some sort of Vendetta against Rodeeberrys vision and needed to completely insult it. The vulcans were pitiable in that show, and absolutely nothing like what they were in the original series. Species do not change that much in a hundred years. Vulcans were also suppose to be 10 times the strength of a human being, yet in enterprise they seemed to be physically conquered fairly easily. Another prudent move of the producers of this film would have been to forget enterprise ever existed, as that was never a part of roddenberrys vision and I think if he were alive to see it he would have sued for plagiary and defamation.

141. Sc00ny - November 28, 2008

#RE 126. Daniel Broadway

Great idea Dan.

Rick,
please do us your version of this period Enterprise, tweaked.
I’d love to see it.
Can you do better than Gabe Koerner though? ;-)

142. Enterprise - November 28, 2008

Uh, what?

143. Enterprise - November 28, 2008

We never heard of Cardassians before TNG, does that make TNG bad?

144. Lord Garth, Formerly of Izar - November 28, 2008

Rick

I just love the specs and technical details tthat Mr. jeffries, Andrew Probert and yourself have brought to us. I used to stare for endless hours at my TMP enterprise cutaway poster (About the coolest Trek tech poster ever)
and the Starfleet Battles and original FASA starship manuals.

BUT I NEED TO KNOW!!!! HOW BIG ARE THE NEW REDESIGNs !!!! I have read on many sites that the new E is supposed to be 3000ish feet in length. In the construction stills from the teaser the size of the workers on the hull lead me to believe the ship is much much larger but in the released still of the E the size of the portholes and docking rings lead me to believe the proportions are about the same as the TMP E. This is driving me nuts I need to know these things!!!!!

145. Matt808 - November 28, 2008

#140

What about the tribunal scene in Star Trek IV? There were a ton of aliens in that scene that we’d never seen before and never saw again. One of them, as I believe someone mentioned, looked remarkably similar to the Kelvin’s security officer. Is Star Trek IV not canon?

146. AJ - November 28, 2008

133:

Databrain,

Simply because we’ve never seen this alien before in Star Trek doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be introduced in the new film. Abrams is drawing on the cinematic/Berman tradition of having aliens in Starfleet.

Why not use the budget to create someone who’s not just a rubber head, but is utterly and convincingly alien?

147. Databrain - November 28, 2008

‘It’s 40 years later; there’s no reason JJ can’t expand the evolutionary universe a little.’

Dude you’re preaching to the choir man. The original series ended 20 years before I was born, and I always knew that with an added budgetary scale Roddenberry would have done more. All I am saying is that it would be more in place in a future trek time-line as opposed to a past trek time-line. And if aliens cropping up in a prequel film must have happened it should have been a mythical one we have heard of but never witnessed. There is too much established trek to write off this canon blunder, and I am basing this on the fact that one of the producers who frequents this site swears canon violations will all fall together at some point and make sense within established canon.

148. Enterprise - November 28, 2008

At least the aliens in Enterprise worked together in most episodes with the Federation, and weren’t against it half the time.

149. The TOS Purist aka The Purolator - November 28, 2008

If people are still complaining about the viewscreen being an actual window, check my post at #125 again! It’s canon!!

150. Databrain - November 28, 2008

133 said:
‘Simply because we’ve never seen this alien before in Star Trek doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be introduced in the new film.’

It’s a new film set in an old time-line that is supposedly, according to the writers, adhering to canon.

‘Why not use the budget to create someone who’s not just a rubber head, but is utterly and convincingly alien?’

Why not use said budget to introduce a species we have heard of but never seen? It would be more believable within the trek time-line, seeing as how Vulcans were one of the only non-human species serving on starships at the time of the original series.

151. Rick Sternbach - November 28, 2008

#125 – From everything I saw of dilithium in the original series and the first few movies, I had to conclude that the stuff tuned the M/A reaction in some way, in much the way that control rods moderate a fission reactor. And that’s precisely what makes the connection between historical tech and future tech in people’s minds. In TOS, I think that if a hunk of dilithium crystal is placed somewhere in the plasma environment, even through some kind of conduit taps -off- the main pressurized nacelle, the tuning will take place. The crystal degrades over time, losing atoms here and there, so you need to “recrystalize” by a flush-recovery process. Works for me.

152. Edwin - November 28, 2008

Wow! I wish this film was about the USS Kelvin and its crew — they look far more interesting than the USS Enterprise NCC-90210 crowd!

153. Databrain - November 28, 2008

*146*

154. LoyalStarTrekFan - November 28, 2008

100, you are correct about how the real navy does things and I agree that they could, and should, add a lot more of naval traditions to Starfleet but there are 2 things you need to remember about Star Trek and Starfleet:
1) Starfleet is not purely a military organization, it is also an exploratory organization. It would be like if you combined the DoN (Department of the Navy) with NASA. As Captain Kirk said, “It’s a combined service.” Therefore, it is logical to believe that some things would be different.
2) It is a fictional TV show made by people who, for the most part, never served in the military and therefore may not know military procedure. However, the information can easily be found.

155. Databrain - November 28, 2008

‘What about the tribunal scene in Star Trek IV? There were a ton of aliens in that scene that we’d never seen before and never saw again.’

That was a tribunal, not a starship post. Now if this was a species being encountered by the starship crew, it would make a lot more sense. But serving aboard a starship at a time in trek history when supposedly only vulcans and andorians served on starships? I don’t know the latter as fact, but it is certainly implied by the way spock is often portrayed as the sole vulcan in starfleet service at that time.

156. Tony Whitehead - November 28, 2008

133. Databrain.

I appreciate your take on the matter and understand that point of view. However, it’s a big galaxy and I think there’s room in this story-line for aliens that were not part of the original series or any subsequent one for that matter.

I do agree that many of the TOS aliens’ potential for story development remains largely untapped. ENT’s study of the Andorian culture, for one, has many possibilities, especially as the tension between that race and the Vulcans could be still a tender alliance.

157. Kaych - November 28, 2008

#155
“But serving aboard a starship at a time in trek history when supposedly only vulcans and andorians served on starships? I don’t know the latter as fact, but it is certainly implied by the way spock is often portrayed as the sole vulcan in starfleet service at that time.”

Uh, no he wasn’t. Remember the Intrepid? A ship crewed solely by Vulcans? Also in TAS, there was M’ress and Arex, both exotic aliens.

158. AJ - November 28, 2008

154:

“It is a fictional TV show made by people who, for the most part, never served in the military and therefore may not know military procedure. However, the information can easily be found.”

You’ll have to exclude Gene Roddenberry, Matt Jefferies and Gene Coon from that list.

159. Databrain - November 28, 2008

‘Uh, no he wasn’t. Remember the Intrepid? A ship crewed solely by Vulcans?

I thought the intrepid was built by vulcans but authorized by starfleet. In any event, what I meant was that Spock ‘seemed’ to be the sole vulcan serving aboard a ship of mostly humans. Somehow I got the perception that a few andorians may be scattered about this time line herere and there. But either way there is scant mention of truly exotic non-humanoid species serving aboard starships during this time.

160. Databrain - November 28, 2008

Actually there is no mention of it at all..

161. Enterprise - November 28, 2008

There were a lot of aliens in Starfleet. Remember the helmsman of the Saratoga at the start of Trek IV? Remember all those people in that room of Starfleet where the President and Cartwright were? Even the President of the Federation in Trek VI was an alien.

162. Imrahil - November 28, 2008

it’s ‘hangar,” not ‘hanger.’

And the nacelles are blue?

163. Databrain - November 28, 2008

‘However, it’s a big galaxy and I think there’s room in this story-line for aliens that were not part of the original series or any subsequent one for that matter.’

Again, they would have been more prudent to introduce a species heard of but never visited before. This species is being introduced in a time-line that has never shown or even mentioned it before. Not even in the diplomacy episode ‘journey to babel’. If they were a part of the federation they might have at least been mentioned in the subsequent time-line.

164. Enterprise - November 28, 2008

It’s a big galaxy, dude. You’re gonna run into many different aliens and people living out there.

165. Balok - November 28, 2008

Double thumbs up for the Kelvin.
Double thumbs down for the new E.

The Kelvin is very consistent with older gen Starships that have been designed by Franz, and others; one nacelle under saucer, Bridge window from early E model, etc. The thing that I never liked about some of the Franz/similiar designs is these much older ships were just slice and dice duplicates of parts from the E (a ,much newer ship). The Kelvin’s exterior components look much older a cruder (like Nacelle) when compared to the orignal E…. So, I can totaly buy this as a NCC-500 age ship.

The E is the real problerm here, TOS E exterior looks so much better, I can buy the premise that a timeline change is to blame, along with any other changes. Anyway, I’m looking forward to seeing the movie,

166. Databrain - November 28, 2008

‘It’s a big galaxy, dude. You’re gonna run into many different aliens and people living out there.’

I’m not negating that. I think you’re implying that I am negating that on purpose to distract from what I actually AM saying. Which is that it seems rather silly to introduce an exotic alien in a time-line that did not depict non-humanoid aliens serving (TAS not withstanding). This is also because the producers say they are adhering to canon and I am kind of calling them on that.

167. Weerd1 - November 28, 2008

OK- I am one of the Canonites (I like canonite better than canonista…) and I have no problem with a new alien design in Starfleet in that time period. The novels in the 70s were full of new races, good and bad, but it seems to me the Federation should have all kinds of guys we haven’t seen, even in that time period. I also have no problem with the window, as the pilot version of the Enterprise had the window too (though there’s some disparity there with the obvious window on the front of the model’s bridge dome, and the apparent turbolift 180 degrees around the dome- yet the turbolift on the interior is NOT located directly across from the screen. In the Franz Joseph tech manual, the bridge is offset to line up the internal turbolift with the external detail).

I agree the nacelle just LOOKS better with the ship upside down, but it is reminiscent of the Scout class or Destroyer from the old tech manual.

As far as NCC… I know in the navy a command cruiser is a CC, but the Enterprise was a heavy cruiser (CA). NCC must stand for something else. Naval Construction Contract is usually the fanon answer, but I am partial to “Navigational Communication Code.” If I remember correctly, the “Making of Star Trek” book says Roddenberry took the “NC” from the commercial tail numbers from civil aircraft and added an extra C to make it futuristic. I just want to know why the three digit number needs a zero placemarker as the first digit.

Mr. Sternbach, I join the chorus of adherents to the great work you did for Trek.

168. Sc00ny - November 28, 2008

For anybody feeding a nostalgic TOS fix, try
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qPn0LeVc1C0
Not an i-pod in sight

169. Databrain - November 28, 2008

‘There were a lot of aliens in Starfleet. Remember the helmsman of the Saratoga at the start of Trek IV? Remember all those people in that room of Starfleet where the President and Cartwright were? Even the President of the Federation in Trek VI was an alien.’

These were mostly humanoid aliens adhering the the original series time-line, and while they were members of the federation, this does not imply, directly or indirectly, that they served aboard star ships in any capacity other than as ambassadors on diplomatic missions. My belief is that there was a different criterion established to allow diplomats aboard that there were to allow such aliens to serve aboard starships in full capacity. The most obvious of which being having to pass through starfleet academy, which, for all we know, very few member species were assigned to do at that time.

170. Enterprise - November 28, 2008

Uh, aren’t you just making all that stuff up?

171. SB - November 28, 2008

166: “I’m not negating that. I think you’re implying that I am negating that on purpose to distract from what I actually AM saying. Which is that it seems rather silly to introduce an exotic alien in a time-line that did not depict non-humanoid aliens serving (TAS not withstanding). This is also because the producers say they are adhering to canon and I am kind of calling them on that.”

The fact that GreatBird&Co didn’t show non-humanoid aliens during the run of the original series has nothing to do with continuity.

It’s got everything to do with the fact that they couldn’t afford non-humanoids. Basic. Simple. End of story. If they could have afforded them, I assure you, they’d have been there. The very fact that TAS *was* loaded with them reflects the fact that, at last, Gene was no longer constrained by effects, makeup or costume budgets. Anything a writer could imagine, Filmation could draw — and did.

To infer a point of “canon” from a thing like this pretty much exposes “canon” for the overused, over-analysed notion that it is. You might as well infer that Starfleet built all its starship cabins from painted plywood, because that’s clearly what they are… so it must be “canon,” eh?

Give me a break.

172. Ghost of StarTrek Future - November 28, 2008

This stuff is so amazing. I love seeing a new ship and new aliens and things.

I am really sorry that some people have forgotten what Star Trek is about and turned it into some kind of religion with a strict set of rules and god forbid they do anything new. No new aliens and even arguing against using new make-up techniques. We are about to see Trek in a whole new fun way with technology and resources never before seen and with a whole bunch of new aliens and uniforms and ships and characters and some people seemed to not be able to be excited because they think Trek should just stop where it is.

Well I am as old as the hills and pretty darn conservative in my ways, and I for one want to feel that sense of wonder. I dont want to see something that I expect with just a few new details added to what I know….I want to be blown away with new surprises. I want to feel like i was a kid again when I first saw the Gorn.

And to do that in the 21st century means new things and new modern techniques.

This old fart (can I say that here?) says bring it on

173. Rick Sternbach - November 28, 2008

#123 – I’m just a tiny bit confused about the comparison; one is a Starfleet-ish set piece that had to be simple enough to actually build on stage during a 10-day episodic television turnaround, and the other is an alien concept that had tons of feature development time and CGI horsepower behind it. I’m flattered to be mentioned in the same post, and I wish I had that kind of work situation for most of the stuff I’ve done.

174. Decker's Stubble - November 28, 2008

Wow, that’s a lot of detail for a U.S.S. Red Shirt that will get a quick and messy death.

I also like Alnschloss Gambolputty de von Ausfern- schplenden- schlitter- crasscrenbon- fried- digger- dingle- dangle- dongle- dungle- burstein- von- knacker- thrasher- apple- banger- horowitz- ticolensic- grander- knotty- spelltinkle- grandlich- grumblemeyer- spelterwasser- kurstlich- himbleeisen- bahnwagen- gutenabend- bitte- ein- nürnburger- bratwustle- gerspurten- mitz- weimache- luber- hundsfut- gumberaber- shönedanker- kalbsfleisch- mittler- aucher von Hautkopft of Ulm. Definitely a tribute to Arex.

175. AJ - November 28, 2008

Databrain: As usual, “no mention” opens the door to possibilities.

Don’t forget that the 1960s were a time when an African-American Comm officer was controversial. The lack of aliens on ships beyond Spock in the show should not be considered “canon,” but a reflection of the times.

176. Sisko Is The Prophet, Peace Be Upon Him - November 28, 2008

After reading the article above I thought, for once something that even the canonistas will like with all the technobabble and the Arex looking alien and the cage/nx01 hybrid outfits. It is so clear that the new team are doing new things and yet trying to fill in the gaps and make something new.

I say to BobOrci and the new crew, well done. You are kicking but Sisko style.

And ignore the sticks in the mud who seem to hate everything, it is now clear to me that they made up their minds long ago and will just find fault with everything. There appears to be nothing that would make them happy and so maybe Abrams is right, maybe this film is not being made for them and that is fine. But I think most of the rest of the fans are getting pretty amped up.

I want to see Capt. Robau kick some ass. He looks like another fine head shaved Captain like The Sisko and Picard. (although I have a sneaky feeling that he is not long for this world, but I hope you gave him a glorious death!)

177. SB - November 28, 2008

175:

Well said.

I’d also remind Databrain that a negative cannot be proven logically; that is, simply because one has never seen a man walking down the street wearing a bunny suit made out of electric-green sardines does not prove they don’t exist. It only proves you’re never around when he takes his walks.

Similarly, if one (*sigh*) absolutely must find a canonical explanation for this if you’re to sleep at night, I submit that the mysterious floating cameras that recorded all the events seen in the Original Series simply had the bad luck to be in the wrong place whenever the six-legged aliens with nine heads and a polka-dot backside walked by.

You see how silly this gets?

178. Canonfornication - November 28, 2008

some observations:

George Kirk has got one fine thick ass head of hair…I can see where Jim Kirks genes come from and how he manages to hold on it to throughout his career in starfleet..

Richard Robau looks like an asian Capt Picard.

Those suits look like they gonna be similar to the Enterprise jump suits..

The Kelvin looks like a retro Reliant..with abit of the NX 01 design thrown in…

179. AJ - November 28, 2008

174:

Let’s refer to him as “Al.”

180. Enterprise - November 28, 2008

I wonder if Kirk’s mom will be super hot?

181. The TOS Purist aka The Purolator - November 28, 2008

#151 – Thanks for replying to my post!

If the dilithium somehow tuned the M/A reaction, how could it do that if the reaction took place inside the nacelles like you mentioned before? The dilithium was all the way in Main Engineering…

Somebody desperately needs to write up a TOS Technical Manual of the same caliber as the TNG/DS9 ones! It would probably have to disregard everything that has been established in TMP-onward, though, since TOS warp drive systems were so radically different. Better to start with a clean slate and work upwards from the dialogue…

182. SB - November 28, 2008

More observations:

Farah Tahir, the actor portraying Captain Robau, gave several interviews talking about how pleased he was to have a starfleet captain of Middle Eastern descent represented in the Trek universe.

I wonder if anyone told him that Robau is now apparently from Cuba. If I were him, I’d be a tad miffed. Then again, I suppose there’s no actual *reason* that a middle-easterner can’t have been born in Cuba…

183. Anthony Pascale - November 28, 2008

[SPOILERS]

RE: USS Redshirt
Although it is now an official spoiler that the Kelvin is toast, it does get some life. When TrekMovie first reported on the Kelvin and other ships in this movie (in our rather accurate spoiler article):
http://trekmovie.com/2008/05/27/spoilers-details-on-star-trek-movie-ships/

…it was noted that the Kelvin was the only other Federation ship that had its own sets built at Paramount (although they were also redressed for the Kirk Kobayashi Test). The only other sets were some shuttles and the Romulan ship and Spock’s ship (which is more of a Vulcan ship than a Federation ship).

So we will at least be getting a few scenes on the Kelvin before Nero shows up and ruins its day

184. Lord Garth, Formerly of Izar - November 28, 2008

NOW I NEED EXACT Dimesions!!, Please!!!

OR AT LEAST RICK”S CONJECTURE!!!

KELVAN
Length:
Beam:
Width:

NEW E
Length:
Beam:
Width:

185. Anthony Pascale - November 28, 2008

RE: Robau being from Cuba
Bob Orci can give more details, but Capt. Robau is named for Bob’s uncle, who is Cuban. Bob is half Mexican and half Cuban and was born in Mexico City. It was Bob’s uncle (I think it is the same uncle) who got him into Trek and every year they exchange Trek related Christmas presents.

186. Enterprise - November 28, 2008

Maybe if the timeline is reset at the end, the Kelvin comes back?

187. OneBuckFilms - November 28, 2008

181. I still believe that the Warp Core, where the Plasma is produced and the Dilithium Crystals control the M/A reaction, are still in the secondary hull. The plasma is then sent through the nacelles, and worked by the Warp Coils to create the subspace bubble, or warp field.

This is then used to warp spacetime around the ship, which rides the the wave into superluminal velocity.

If there is an imbalance of the coils, or between both nacelles in a dual-core system (such as the Enterprise), we end up with an unstable wormhole tunnel in spacetime, aka Star Trek: TMP.

What strikes me is that most of this is consistent with “real world” theoretical physics.

188. Decker's Stubble - November 28, 2008

182 – well, on the bright side, now that the captain is Cuban, he can now have this inserted into the script:

Captain Robau (rising from command chair): You wanna f*** with me? Okay. You wanna play rough? Okay. Say hello to my little friend!

189. SB - November 28, 2008

185:

Anthony….

That’s interesting. So we can assume Robau is indeed Cuban. Much thanks for the extra information.

I just feel a little sorry for Mr. Tahir… he was so excited to have a Middle Eastern character portrayed in a mainstream American blockbuster movie as a positive, heroic figure… and I can’t say that I blame him.

190. Anthony Pascale - November 28, 2008

well maybe Bob can add more details. When we first broke the story about Tahir being cast for what was being referred to as ‘Federation Captain’
http://trekmovie.com/2008/02/29/faran-tahir-is-the-federation-captain/
…it was noted that casting a middle eastern/Muslim character was like a Russian in the 60s. Of course Tahir is not Arab or even middle eastern, although he often plays them, he is from Pakistan, which is more South Asia. And of course Tahir himself spoke about the casting being a good sign, and it was nice for him to not play a villain (as he did in Iron Man).

All that being said, I don’t think his ethnicity will even be mentioned in the film one way or another, which raises the question…is the Intel site canon?

We need Bob, our favorite member of the Supreme Court, to make a ruling on that one!

191. Elise - November 28, 2008

189
Maybe he’s both? I always wondered how everyone a united planet managed to keep their cultural and ethnic identities so pure.

192. Databrain - November 28, 2008

‘Don’t forget that the 1960s were a time when an African-American Comm officer was controversial. The lack of aliens on ships beyond Spock in the show should not be considered “canon,” but a reflection of the times.’

But I think they resolved that in the later shows and films, so there is really no need to retro-resolve it, so to speak, in new additions to a time-line that were never even previously hinted at.

193. Databrain - November 28, 2008

‘The very fact that TAS *was* loaded with them reflects the fact that, at last, Gene was no longer constrained by effects, makeup or costume budgets. Anything a writer could imagine, Filmation could draw — and did.’

Not really. I would contend that the animated series was an attempt to bring something educational to children while introducing some child-like elements into it (a humanoid cat who purred every line?). I don’t think TAS was intended to adhere to the time-line, but intended as a child-based extension of a non-child based niche program.

194. Uhura (Mirror) - November 28, 2008

Databrain and his canonite ilk

The intel site incluces ‘boldly go’ in its URL. As in …
“To seek out new life and new civilizations — To boldly go where no man has gone before”

it seems you want Star Trek’s mission to now be:
“To mildly stay where it has been before”

Take some advice from Captain Kirk
“Youg minds, fresh ideas, be tollerant”

look at the canon as not written in stone but a living document that is now getting more interesting things added to it. Stop clasping on it so hard that you cant just have some fun. because as another great man said

“its Just a TV show”

195. SB - November 28, 2008

193:

Right. I didn’t expect my arguments to sway you. Canonistas are Trek fundamentalists. Any argument that contradicts Sacred Doctrine is to be countered, at fundamental risk to one’s self-identity.

Anyway, who wants pie?

196. SB - November 28, 2008

191:

Oh, it’s perfectly possible he’s both; as I said above, there’s no fundamental reason that a person can’t be of mixed cuban/middle-eastern heritage. I just would have liked to see the character be definitively portrayed as Middle Eastern, if only to show certain members of the audience that they’re not all terrorists or some such…

197. Drew - November 28, 2008

M’Ress and the whole Caitian species was a cop out. What an embarrassing unoriginal cliched creation for a race of extraterrestrials. Too contrived, just like the TOS Medusans, far too convenient name for a species who resembled the greek mythological gorgon creatures, namely medusa. They could have come up with a bit more originality with Medusans and Caitians. Basically all they did was add a ”n” and ”s” to Medusa and with the Caitians they just threw in some letters to mix with cat! Embarrassing tosh.

198. SB - November 28, 2008

190:

Anthony, I stand corrected about Faran’s heritage. I made the kind of assumption I frowned at “certain members of the audience” for doing…

Of course, it’s doubtful in any case that when Captain Robau turns up on screen, the movie will throw up a big caption reading, THIS IS CAPTAIN ROBAU AND BY THE WAY HE’S CUBAN. ;) Most likely, the reaction from most audience members will be, “Hey — it’s the bad guy from IRON MAN! Suhweet!”

199. Ian B - November 28, 2008

197-

“M’Ress and the whole Caitian species was a cop out. What an embarrassing unoriginal cliched creation for a race of extraterrestrials. Too contrived, just like the TOS Medusans, far too convenient name for a species who resembled the greek mythological gorgon creatures, namely medusa. They could have come up with a bit more originality with Medusans and Caitians. Basically all they did was add a ”n” and ‘’s” to Medusa and with the Caitians they just threw in some letters to mix with cat! Embarrassing tosh.”

Absolutely. At least they didn’t come up with a major alien race modelled on the Roman Empire, with home planets named Romulus and Remus**, that would be ridiculous.

__
**Or Romii, take your pick.

200. Prologic9 - November 28, 2008

#197;

Does it not make perfect sense that “Medusan” is simply the English name for the species, and was given so BECAUSE of their mythological similarities.

Same for the kitty people.

201. Drew - November 28, 2008

Ah the Romulan, Romulous and Remas, and to top it off a bad guy called Nero in the new film. Ah they love the Romans!

202. Devon - November 28, 2008

Can’t deflectors, in theory, also double as shields against enemy weapon fire? Or do the deflectors only work to push objects out of the way in warp rather than repelling them when the ship is stationary?

203. Drew - November 28, 2008

*Romulus I meant.

204. Databrain - November 28, 2008

‘The intel site incluces ‘boldly go’ in its URL. As in …
“To seek out new life and new civilizations — To boldly go where no man has gone before”

it seems you want Star Trek’s mission to now be:
“To mildly stay where it has been before”’

I actually wish they would do that by venturing into the future more, say the 25th century, or maybe even further on than that, which would be much more challenging than recapitulating an already established era by retro-adding elements to the time-line.

205. Enterprise - November 28, 2008

Well, the only reasons they had aliens in the TOS series was because they couldn’t afford to hire Walter Koenig, or something like that.

206. Enterprise - November 28, 2008

I meant the Cartoon series.

207. BK613 - November 28, 2008

181
Post TMP that may be true, but it should be noted that Matt Jefferies’ early designs sometimes referred to the nacelles as “power pods.” It would not be unusual for someone with a background in aviation like MJ (and Roddenberry as well) to think it natural that power would come FROM the engines since that is the case on aircraft: electricity, hydraulic pressure, etc, are generated by the engines.

208. MORN SPEAKS - November 28, 2008

Yeah I’m also very curious as to what nationality/race Captain Robau is to represent.

209. the king in shreds and tatters - November 28, 2008

The alien dude looks a liiiiittle like a Kasheeta.

210. BK613 - November 28, 2008

Oh and does anyone remember if TAS gave any details about Arex? Because ti seems to me that if you started with Arex it wouldn’t take many changes to reach ol’ Al up there.

211. Enterprise - November 28, 2008

If you read the DC Trek comics in the 80s/Early 90’s, they brought back both Arex and M’Ress, it was awesome.

212. Admiral Powers - November 28, 2008

“Canon” fascists like Databrain who treat a make-believe t.v. series as if it is actual history are the very reason why JJ absolutely has to take Trek to an expanded audience if it is to have any success. He has to rely on people who aren’t going to sit up for 96 hours straight watching every episode frame by frame so that they can get on teh intertoobs and proclaim to the world that a line of dialogue at 37 minutes and 24 seconds into the picture clearly contradicts a line of dialogue 26 seconds after the first commercial in episode 46 of Deep Space Nine. Nevermind the fact that there are already a zillion contradictions in so-called “canon.” Canon is like a game of fizzbin, it’s impossible to follow all the rules when the the rules contradict themselves.

The canon fascists are proving Abrams was correct every step of the way. If the franchise has to rely on them, Star Trek is dead, dead, dead.

213. Enterprise - November 28, 2008

Gene Roddenberry himself said only the TV series and movies are canon. Not fanfic, not fan films, not fan made tech books, not episode guides, not people’s websites, etc,.

214. Admiral Powers - November 28, 2008

By the way, Captan Robau kind of reminds me of the guy on Cloud City in Empire Strikes Back who had the equipment implanted into his head around his ears (Lobot, I think). They both have bald heads.

Deal with it.

215. the king in shreds and tatters - November 28, 2008

Cool.

216. Maltz - November 28, 2008

Meh. Alnschloss isn’t that impressive. Now, you show me a CGI Arex with three arms and three legs, then I will be impressed.

And I also think the Kelvin looks much better than the new E. Don’t know if anyone is taking a tally, but that seems to be the prevalent opinion, at least on this site!

217. Enterprise - November 28, 2008

Man, it must be hard to find helmets for that dude.

218. David - Flaming Wings Forever - November 28, 2008

I’m just imagining all of us getting together at a local restaurant. It’s a Friday, we’ve all worked hard during the week. Settling in for an evening of Trek Chat – we finally put a face to the various players who post. Anthony starts the evening off and sets the ground rules. The canonittes scoff, but still want to be active participants. They sit at a table in the center of the room, and are already on their second pitcher of margaritas.

The group’s first round of beers, wine coolers and diet pepsi go off without a hitch. It isn’t until the second round of chicken wings that the evening degenerates into a shouting match. The canonittes – feeling left out of the discussion – start chanting ‘two nacellles, two nacelles, two nacelles or we go to hell…’ over and over.

The evening ends many hours later; Databrain is in the bathroom arguing (seemingly to himself) that he doesn’t have to pay for the Mojo potatoes because ‘they were not part of the menu’ with some stranger who just wants to finish and get the heck out. Anthony is relieved that no one threw anything, and Vulcanista appears to be hitting on Captian Pike. RTC looks on, feeling left out. Bob Orci arrives late, just in time to bump into Databrain leaving the bathroom.

And then it really gets fun….

219. SB - November 28, 2008

#218

Thanks a bunch, David. I’m sending you the drycleaning bill for the Diet Pepsi I just snorted out of my nose and all over my shirt… :)

220. Anthony Pascale - November 28, 2008

OK guys, discussion is fine, but I don’t like to see words like ‘fascist’ and nazi’ thrown around…that goes too far and lets not let a single poster dominate the debate.

RE: going out for beers
sounds like fun. Next year at Vegas 2009 I do plan on doing some kind of party. And I havent forgotten the idea of doing a special movie screening, maybe I will do both together!

221. Jordan - November 28, 2008

The images of the Kelvin are absolutely GORGEOUS! And bravo to the writers for, as was indicated in this article, respecting canon relative to trek technology.

222. Rick Sternbach - November 28, 2008

#202 – The main deflector dish (on those ships that have them) certainly ought to be able to project a beam with enough force to attempt to deflect an oncoming torpedo. I say attempt, because the torpedo is probably running with an EM canceler that is trying to punch a hole in the ship’s defenses, including any concentrated beam. What it all comes down to is a delicate balance of factors which include Trek-specific tech plausibility, real-world analogues, and dramatic requirements. On the Trek shows in which I held the sub-credit of “tech consultant,” I often responded to writers’ questions by saying “What do you need to have happen? We’ll come up with a reason.” That said, however, I wasn’t responsible for any overuse or gobbldygooking of the so-called technobabble. It’s only babble if it doesn’t make sense.

223. Brian Matthews - November 28, 2008

All this squawking about what the alien security officer on the Kelvin is all about is getting long-winded and plain silly.

Thoughts on the matter: I agree with the post about how many different alien species we have yet to encounter in the STAR TREK universe. How many episodes of any of the ST series introduced us to new aliens? The Borg? The Sheliak? The Children of Tama? The ALL of this stuff would be fussed about if it didn’t happen, and then when it DOES happen someone cries foul.

And what, because it’s not an actor in foam appliances? Thank you, but we will never, if ever, find alien intelligences that look anything even remotely like us. If I had my way VULCANS would be completely different from us, and so would every other species encountered in ST – even from each other. THEN Trek becomes real. Then the real magic will be to write stories that have to mess with that potentially messy bit of reality…

40 years ago Gene Roddenberry’s vision could never be adequately visualized on the medium in which it was presented (nor anywhere, perhaps), and he has even made comments alluding to such (regarding Klingon physiology, but I don’t believe for a second that he would have stopped there). If Trek can have more Hortas and 8472’s and Tin Men then it will be better science-fiction. Computer graphics can, have and will do this for us – it’s the only way to be true to what we will have to deal with.

By now, STAR TREK is more than a storytelling environment. STAR TREK can make legitimate statements about what’s out there and not have to worry about hiring The Rock to play an interstellar ‘wrassler’.

224. David - Flaming Wings Forever - November 28, 2008

Count me in for Vegas 2009 Anthony. Putting faces to our fellow posters would be a tremendous hoot.

225. Mark - November 28, 2008

Still think it is inappropriate for past designers to be commenting on the current designs until some time after the new movie comes out. It seems unethical; sour grapes.

Reminds me of when we see retired generals as talking heads critical of current military exercises on the cable news.

Just leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

226. Requiem1971 - November 28, 2008

Anyone notice how this George Kirk looks like he could very well be the father of James Kirk? Good job on the similarity JJ.

227. CubanAries1701A - November 28, 2008

Cool beans the Capt of the Kelvin is Cuban, Alright!!!

228. Ian B - November 28, 2008

The whole debate here about “a species we’ve never seen before violates the spirit of canon” illustrates the whole reason the thing needed a reboot (and frankly, I would have preferred an entirely clean slate reboot, rather than this in-betweeny version, though I appreciate why the writers have chosen to “reboot from canon”). There simply isn’t any room to maneuver left in the old history. We’ve obviously seen all the significant species in the vicinity, the history of the galaxy is set in stone. There’s nothing left to write, which is one reason Trek Mark II- the TNG era, which was a forward reboot-from-canon, effectively- turned into such a dreary by the numbers sausage factory.

Databrain suggests moving forward in time again, but that really won’t help. It would be of interest perhaps to the canon fans, who are interested in a “complete history of the galaxy” but has no specific attraction to new viewers, which is what Paramount desperately want; which is why they’ve gone back to TOS as it has widespread recognition among the general public, which The Adventures Of Captain Somebody And His Crew In The 25th Century wouldn’t have. It would be very hard to build widespread enthusiasm for Star Trek- Yet Another Generation.

There’s also the tech problem. If you go forward in time, you need to show some progress, some tech advancement. TNG had the holodecks for instance. But really, the tech in Trek is there to enable the plot. You can’t make the warp drive go faster, because it needs to go at the speed required by the story. You can’t make the weapons more powerful, because they need to be balanced against enemies- so you can multiply meaningless terawatt statistics by 10, but they can’t operate differently in story terms. So really, you end up with the same type of crew on the same type of ship, just walking around saying “w00t, we’re in the 25th century”. Which is the exact problem they had with Enterprise- they still needed phasers, shields, communicators and a transporter, they just called them slightly different things, which was obvious and lame. We didn’t get shields at 50%, we got “hull plating” at 50%.

229. Kelvington - November 28, 2008

Personally I think the Kelvin should look like this, and Spockboy since he thought of it – http://kelvington.com/Kelvin.jpg

230. Skippy2k - November 28, 2008

#125 I believe thats actually the WNMHGB version of the ship, the cage version has a couple of red lines and box shapes instead of the rectangle viewer/window.

I figured it was a window which could just have the viewer image or info overlayed. Picture of the viewer seems to be the right shape and size of the exterior shape at the base of the “BC deck” and looked to be lit…maybe we’ll get at 3d view of the Ent at some point.

231. John Pemble - November 28, 2008

It looks ‘old’ which is the point. The Kelvin will make the Enterprise look cooler with it’s 2 nacels vs 1 for example.

232. Greenebow - November 28, 2008

225. Who’s better qualified to discuss these issues? Regardless of whether or not you agree with their opinions they have the history to make informed observations.

233. Gary Seven of Nine - November 28, 2008

So in the UFP of he 23rd Century, there are many planets, but only species from a handful of those planets are allowed to serve in starfleet?

Uh…OK.

@ 172. Ghost of StarTrek Future

-You Rock!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

90. Databrain – November 28, 2008

Alnschloss K’Bentayr is another blatant stab against Canon. While it is an interesting looking alien it does resemble something more out of starwars than star trek. Such an alien was never featured in star trek prior to the emergence of species 8472 in voyager. Arguably the tholians were perhaps the strangest intelligent species that weren’t ‘god like’ encountered up until the time of the next generation. And I don’t think they were entirely physical beings.

And the reason I am bringing up canon, once again, is that the creators of this film keep saying there will be canon resolution. Does that mean this alien will have only existed in this ‘alternate time line’? It’s getting kind of silly. They might as well have darth vader in it and attribute it to the alternate time line plot.

234. Kelvington - November 28, 2008

I didn’t know John Merrick was in Starfleet? –
http://Kelvington.com/Merrick.jpg

235. Skippy2k - November 28, 2008

While I agree it does more like an alien you might see in star wars but it also looks…more alien. TOS had the tholians aliens of energy the little pipe cleaner guys were a little different, then TAS which is by some considered cannon had Arex (which is kinda similar) and the M’ress… I can accept that we haven’t seen every alien ever encountered by starfleet (may be harder if there everywhere in the movie) but a unique crew member?

236. Jorg Sacul - November 28, 2008

@225…
I’d rather read 10,000 posts by real past contributors to Trek than 1 snide comment posted about them.

237. Enterprise - November 28, 2008

Wow! Michael Johnson the track star in Starfleet!

238. McCoy - November 28, 2008

212 ““Canon” fascists like Databrain who treat a make-believe t.v. series as if it is actual history are the very reason why JJ absolutely has to take Trek to an expanded audience if it is to have any success.”

Star Trek is already a success without JJ. IMO, there was plenty of fans (as well as children, family and friends of fans) to make this movie a success if everything was totally canon and no one else went. New (retro-look) stories would have been awesome with great effects. I began watching old episodes again just to see the new CGI. It got me back in front of the TV again and buying old episodes on iTunes again.

A new run of Star Trek movies didn’t need to change the history of the characters and the ship designs should have been much closer to either TOS or TMP. They would have made plenty of money with the existing Star Trek fan base.

239. Admiral Powers - November 28, 2008

Anthony,

I love your site and everything you do. But with all due respect, if we’re going to allow people to compare the Star Trek timeline to a religious faith by using the word “canon” (which some might find offensive) I think it’s too late to draw the line as to what terms are or are not appropriate.

240. Blake powers - November 28, 2008

Anthony,
Going out for beers is a bad idea. After all the fans are through buying you beers you’re going to look like morn the next day…….. Did I say bad idea?? Sorry, I meant that it sounds awesome.

241. McCoy's Gall Bladder - November 28, 2008

I read somewhere that Gene wanted more aliens but again the realities of a 1960’s children’s TV show got in the way.

I say Hooray for more aliens!

Spock was the ONLY Vulcan in Star Fleet during the TOS I think gets mentioned more than once on TV. So the Intrepid was probably a Vulcan Science Academy (or VASA?) Ship with a Human name. Retired Connie?

Not unheard of. Just not thought all the way through.

My usual grouse.

Gene and Matt were USAAF pilots. They probably werent familiar with Navy terms.

Still Naval Construction Contract sounds dumb to anyone that ever did serve.

242. McCoy's Gall Bladder - November 28, 2008

About torpedoes

The original thought about Photon Torpedoes (Phototorps) was that they detonated NEAR the enemy ship, they didnt try to hard to hit it. Again the US navy had crappy torpedoes in WWII, maybe Gene copied that?

The Phototorp detonates by a controlled matter & anti-matter explosion outside the shields of the ship, essentially a small nova.

Only in the movies did torpedoes act like guided missiles and follow and strike the enemy ship.

Plasma torps originally enveloped the ship or tiny asteroid outpost and used plasma to crush and irradiate the target.

I think TNG broke canon by giving the Romulans disruptors and taking away their plasma torps.

243. McCoy's Gall Bladder - November 28, 2008

Last grouse of the evening:

Galaxy Quest was made to make fun of the Canonistas who wish so hard that Star Trek was true and refuse to believe that it’s Saturday morning children’s entertainment.

244. AJ - November 28, 2008

229:/Kelvington

That image looks like some kind of space-age all-purpose sex toy.

The nacelle on top looks like a gigantic sausage.

245. Weerd1 - November 28, 2008

Canonites! My brother and sister canonites! Whatever else we argue about- changing history, redesigning starships, reused time travel plots: I have to say there should be more aliens. Look at the council scenes in ST:IV, look at the Khitomer conference in ST:VI, look at the fact the Federation, according to Kirk in “Metamorphosis” says humanity is spread across a thousand planets, and even if they are a majority, there must still be hundreds of alien races in the Federation’s area of influence. I have more problems with the idea the Kelvin only has one nacelle (aren’t they supposed to be tandem Mr. Sternbach?) than with the idea it has aliens on it.

246. McCoy's Gall Bladder - November 28, 2008

People breed like rabbits, witness Earth today.

Other aliens may breed at a slower rate. Seven years for a Vulcan.

Humans would naturally take over the galaxy if we never got sick or died.

247. Enterprise - November 28, 2008

It’s never said Spock was the only Vulcan in Starfleet. It just says Spock is the only Vulcan on The Enterprise. Besides, Spock is half human and half Vulcan.

248. Chris Doohan - November 28, 2008

The first round of drinks/beers are on me.

249. The Wild Man of Borneo - November 28, 2008

Hey, in that poll you have for favorite star trek 2009 ship design…there is no option for “These ships suck.” why? I am pretty sure there would be a good amount of votes for that.

And I could’ve sworn Abrams said in earlier interviews that Robau was going to be captain of a “huge warlike” ship. And it turns out to be the Kelvin? The Kelvin looks anything but intimidating.

250. sean - November 28, 2008

DATABRAIN #90, 153, etc.

Your complaints simply aren’t rational, and seem to be based far more in the realm of ‘fanon’ than ‘canon’. If Trek writers had been forced to take your incredibly narrow view of ‘canon’ and try to work around it, they’d have run out of stories rather quickly.

Just because we haven’t seen a species before does not mean they don’t exist or that the new movie is breaking ‘canon’. The Federation supposedly encompassed hundreds of planets – you’re telling me every single one had to be previously mentioned on screen to exist in any future story? That just because the half a dozen starships we saw on TOS didn’t have this particular species means ‘canon’ dictates they didn’t exist?

No Trek episode ever stated that only Vulcans and Andorians served in Starfleet. Or do you agree with Azetbur’s statement in TUC that the Federation is a ‘homo sapiens-only club’? Ignoring for the moment that this security officer is CLEARLY a tribute to Arex from TAS (honestly, does anyone disagree?), the only way he’d be a violation of canon would be if someone said ‘ no aliens from Monchezke that have ever served about a Starfleet vessel’. That’s it. And since it never happened, it doesn’t matter how many ways you spin it., it’s simply not a canon issue.

251. sean - November 28, 2008

#241

Sorry, but no, it is NEVER stated on screen that Spock is the only Vulcan in Starfleet. That’s fanon, plain and simple.

252. The Wild Man of Borneo - November 28, 2008

well #250,

I honestly disagree. I don’t see it being CLEARLY a tribute to Arex. How? It looks nothing like him. I don’t see your rationale for that considering that Arex was a navigator and a Lieutenant and not a security officer.

And people knocked Berman for the Kzinti, so I guess it’s only fair for people knocking Abrams and Co.

253. sean - November 28, 2008

#249

Probably because there have been plenty of previous polls where people could voice their dislike of the new ship design. And those votes amounted to, at most, around 15-20%.

254. The Wild Man of Borneo - November 28, 2008

whoops, it’s Xindi not kizinti. sorry

255. sean - November 28, 2008

#252

Well, here’s the comparison shot someone posted earlier:

http://bildupload.sro.at/a/images/1-anschloss_arex.jpg

You’re telling me you don’t see a strong resemblance there?

256. Buzz Cagney - November 28, 2008

The Kelvin just has to be the ugliest ship ever. Dud name as well.

257. cellojammer - November 29, 2008

I wasn’t sure about the Kelvin based on early pics, but after going to the interactive Intel site and rotating the image, I have to say it’s a pretty tough-looking ship!

I like that it’s a new combination of familiar Starfleet design elements. There’s only so much you can do with them and this is definitely original!

258. Chris Basken - November 29, 2008

So, it occurred to me that if you take the Kelvin’s warp nacelle, move it over and put another one on the opposite side, you could be looking at a TOS Miranda.

259. Veteran Commander - November 29, 2008

OH MY GOD….they are not paying attention to the technology, anyone who knows anything about Star Trek would see that. Someone needs to go back and watch the original series!

I am happy to see an alien onboard the bridge of the Kelvin that is not a Vulcan! Good going J.J.!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you Kaych for remembering Lt. Mress and Arex from the Animated Series, now let’s see if someone remembers that Robert April was the FIRST captain of the Enterprise!!!

260. Databrain - November 29, 2008

239 said:

‘Anthony,

I love your site and everything you do. But with all due respect, if we’re going to allow people to compare the Star Trek timeline to a religious faith by using the word “canon” (which some might find offensive) I think it’s too late to draw the line as to what terms are or are not appropriate.’

Hey, I agree, let him call me whatever he wants. the only restrictions in words should be applied to blatant threats against another member. But alas, it is not my site.

261. Databrain - November 29, 2008

242 said:
‘I think TNG broke canon by giving the Romulans disruptors and taking away their plasma torps.’

But they did this in a future time-line not an already established one. Therefor they effectively added, rather than contradicted already existed canon.

262. Weerd1 - November 29, 2008

Comparing the detail picture of the navigational deflector with the version in the 3d diagram, it would appear the dish is retractable.

263. Databrain - November 29, 2008

250 said:
‘If Trek writers had been forced to take your incredibly narrow view of ‘canon’ and try to work around it, they’d have run out of stories rather quickly.’

No they would have to write further into the future, rather than retrofitting the past.

‘Just because we haven’t seen a species before does not mean they don’t exist or that the new movie is breaking ‘canon’.’

It’s just a matter of the new film not really adding up to the established time-line. This is not being close minded, it is being somewhat pernickety about canon issues, I admit, but that is part and parcel of living the original Roddenberry vision of trek.

‘The Federation supposedly encompassed hundreds of planets – you’re telling me every single one had to be previously mentioned on screen to exist in any future story?’

This is not a future story though, it is a past story retrofitting an already existing time line with elements that were previously never even hinted at. It seems wrong.

‘That just because the half a dozen starships we saw on TOS didn’t have this particular species means ‘canon’ dictates they didn’t exist?”

Existence and serving aboard a starship are two completely different things. Some episodes of TOS indirectly imply that spock is the most exotic alien serving in starfleet, while never implying him the be the most exotic one the crew ever encountered. Indeed, spock has mind melded with aliens who he found fascinating.

264. Alex Rosenzweig - November 29, 2008

#133 – “The only problem with this reasoning is that the species is not mentioned anywhere in the 5 television series nor any of the films.”

I don’t see that as a problem, myself. I think it’s a fallacy to assume that everything ever possible would have already been mentioned. Even in the TOS era, the Federation is a pretty big place, and we’d only met a fraction of the total number of member and allied races. Introducing a new one doesn’t strike me as a real problem here.

#149 – “If people are still complaining about the viewscreen being an actual window, check my post at #125 again! It’s canon!!”

My complaint about the viewscreen being a window isn’t based on canon. It’s based on it being dangerous. ;) I could also argue that it’s limiting, but perhaps the display overlay would address that by allowing for different views, as a screen would. But having a framework with a different material seamed together, as a window would be in the forward part of the bridge, seems to me to be a structural weak point that’s simply not warranted, given the visual display technology available to them.

#228 – “The whole debate here about “a species we’ve never seen before violates the spirit of canon” illustrates the whole reason the thing needed a reboot”

That’s only true if one actually believes:

“We’ve obviously seen all the significant species in the vicinity”

I think that’s an utterly false premise, myself. Yet again, the reboot argument fails.

#241 – “Spock was the ONLY Vulcan in Star Fleet during the TOS I think gets mentioned more than once on TV. ”

Actually, it doesn’t. In fact, even the part about Spock being the first Vulcan in StarFleet remains under the classification of “urban legend”.

One can extrapolate that Spock was probably the only Vulcan aboard the Enterprise during TOS, but that’s about as far as any on-screen information provides.

265. Enterprise - November 29, 2008

Yeah, TOS never even went back to Earth in the 23rd Century in all three seasons. They were always out in space. Starfleet Academy is barely mentioned in all 3 seasons of Trek. When Spock’s family visits the Enterprise, Kirk doesn’t even realize that Ambassador Sarek is Spock’s father.

It is mentioned in the second episode “The Naked Now”, that Spock has a human mother. That was about it as Spock’s history goes until his parents arrive. We get more of Spock’s past in “Amok Time”.

266. Databrain - November 29, 2008

‘I don’t see that as a problem, myself. I think it’s a fallacy to assume that everything ever possible would have already been mentioned. Even in the TOS era, the Federation is a pretty big place, and we’d only met a fraction of the total number of member and allied races. Introducing a new one doesn’t strike me as a real problem here’

I agree with the premise that we have only ever encountered a fraction of the allied species, however the original series made good use of spocks alien nature to promote the notion that, at that point in trek history, there are very few alien species serving aboard starships. We know vulcans have, and it is debatable whether or not the intrepid is a full pledged federation vessel or a sort of vulcan intern ship. My problem is not with encountering never before seen alien species it is that 1-this particular species is serving aboard a starship, 2-it looks like a non-humanoid species from starwars and 3-If such aliens were serving aboard starships one might have ventured to assume they’d have been at least mentioned in passing at some point during the 700 hours of trek film history. This is a plausible canon gripe.

267. Databrain - November 29, 2008

Okay, let us assume that the enterprise is a micro-example of the federation. There are over 400 crew members aboard, only one of which is a vulcan? This implies that there are few allied federation species serving aboard starships at this point in the trek time-line. let alone exotic ones.

268. Databrain - November 29, 2008

Actually spock was the only alien serving aboard the enterprise at this point in trek history. There is no sign of any other alien being serving aboard the enterprise at any point in TOS.

269. Wes - November 29, 2008

I vote that we need to hire Bran Ferren for the graphics in the next movie! His were more realistic! LOL!

270. Kirk's Toupée - November 29, 2008

The ship actually looks a whole lot better if turned the other way round……..To me, it looks upside-down..Sorry if this has been already mentioned, time is short…………

271. Enterprise - November 29, 2008

Does anyone wonder why McCoy never seems to know Vulcan physiology when the Vulcans have had contact with humans for more than 100 years?

272. By The Book - November 29, 2008

271 – I actually love that Dr. McCoy doesn’t know Vulcan physiology even though they’ve been around humans for 100 years. He is such a xenophobic country doctor, it fits his personality so well. That’s why he’s the best Star Trek character ever (don’t screw it up, JJ).

As far as having a previously-unmentioned alien species here, Databrain, I think you are drawing too many false conclusions.
– Spock is definitely treated like he is the only non-human on the Enterprise during TOS, but that does not mean he is or was the only one in Starfleet. That was never specifically stated. It just means that Kirk and Bones thought of him as different and liked to tease him.
– It’s true we’ve seen 700 hours of Trek, but that is still just focusing on four ships and a space station. And really focusing on under 50 main characters. In real life terms: go hang out with 50 people and talk history for 700 hours, every single past society and race on earth won’t be covered.

That’s fine if you don’t like the new alien, but just say that. I don’t think you need to say that it’s breaking canon. It’s really not breaking canon unless there is specific evidence saying that type of alien could not have been around at that time. I haven’t seen any solid evidence of that yet.

Now new Kirk’s blue eyes and McCoy’s non-blue eyes… THAT is breaking canon.

273. Great Awesome - November 29, 2008

I love the Kelvin. George Kirk looks more like TOS Kirk than Pine does. Am I the only one that thinks the security officer looks like a Narn from Babylon 5?

274. CarlG - November 29, 2008

@256 — It’s named after JJ Abrams’ late grandpa as explained here:

http://the-odi.blogspot.com/2008/10/abrams-explains-use-of-kelvin-in-his.html

Knowing that, I’d be inclined to cut the name some slack, yes?

The Kelvin doesn’t look nearly as clunky as I thought it would — I think I might even prefer it to the Enterprise redesign. the Kelvin looks like it was welded together by human hands, while the new Enterprise would look at home in a Jetsons-type future. :) Like ‘em both, though.

@172 — Best. Post. Ever.

*The* Rick Sternbach!
I got your TNG Technical Manual for Christmas when I was 8. I didn’t understand 75% of it, but I had a blast just looking at the diagrams and drawings and making my own. So I just want to say thanks for everything, and I really hope this new movie surpasses your expectations and becomes the truly “awesome Trek” we’re looking for.

275. Al - November 29, 2008

So the Archer Enterprise had two nacelles, the Kelvin has one, and this movie’s Enterprise has two? Evolution indeed

276. Browncoat aka Space Cowboy - November 29, 2008

57. Rick Sternbach – November 28, 2008

Well, it’s nice to see somebody read the TNG Tech Manual for things like the fusion reactors and the nadion particle involvement in phaser beams. Should I be asking for royalties? :)

Considering that you dorks put giant rubber ducks and army tanks in the “D”s hanger bay and the silly references to Hitchhiker’s guide all over the place…you shame your work on the earlier Spaceflight Chronology and the collaboration of the Star Trek Maps[1980]..so go pound salt…
Ricky boy!

277. Browncoat aka Space Cowboy - November 29, 2008

OneBuckFilms – November 28, 2008

The article is a little incorrect though. The Warp Engine, or Warp Core, should be in the secondary hull, between the Navigational Deflector/Long Range Sensor array and the Hangar bay?

Not in the real TOS ‘verse…reference Geoffery Mandel’s 1978 self-contained nacelle….the unofficial page 13 to FJ’s blueprints and followup to THE manual

http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/star-trek-blueprints-sheet-13.jpg

278. ScottyGirl - November 29, 2008

I like George Kirk much better than the guy who plays Shatner um I mean who plays Jim Kirk.

279. Paulaner - November 29, 2008

An alien! A *real* alien!

280. Paulaner - November 29, 2008

#271 “Does anyone wonder why McCoy never seems to know Vulcan physiology when the Vulcans have had contact with humans for more than 100 years?”

Yes, and why a Starfleet Admiral from ST3 doesn’t know *nothing* about katra and Vulcan culture? ;-))

281. Simon - November 29, 2008

Nice to see Rick Sternbach here.

I’d say give the revised Enterprise a chance. After all, a lot of people didn’t like the Voyager’s design at first (looks like a spoon, the nacelles are too short & stubby, etc).

282. Smike van Dyke - November 29, 2008

I simply LOVE the new alien! That’s what aliens are supposed to look like…not those silly forehead aliens of the week. Bajorans were so lame…let’s do it the Farscape way!!!

283. Spock's Brain - November 29, 2008

Mr. Sternbach, your well informed opinions are greatly appreciated here. I’m a HUGE admirer of your work.

Live Long and Prosper.

284. Spock's Brain - November 29, 2008

271. by Enterprise: “Does anyone wonder why McCoy never seems to know Vulcan physiology when the Vulcans have had contact with humans for more than 100 years?”

McCoy, like most truly intelligent people (which excludes many of you who post here), is aware of what he DOES NOT know and acknowledges it. Since it appears that on TOS Spock is the only Vulcan on board and in most cases if surgery was needed on a Vulcan they would get him to a starbase with Vulcan specialists, McCoy does not have to be specialist on Vulcans. He’s a human doctor with expertise on Humans.

But Bones still managed to save Sarek’s life and put Spock’s brain back in his skull and make it work. That’s why he’s a great surgeon, because he still has the capacity to learn new things.

285. Devon - November 29, 2008

I think someone else suggested it, but I too would be curious to see what Rick’s rendition of a 2008 Enterprise model would look like! Would be an interesting (and probably a more pleasing) take! Something you’d ever consider doing just for the fun of it Mr. Sternbach?

286. Paulaner - November 29, 2008

It’s just my personal opinion, no offence intended to anyone, but I’d like to see and hear more respect for the work of the new designers of Trek ’09.

287. Chris Pike - November 29, 2008

222, 202 Another way of looking at why the nav deflector would be incapable against enemy fire/weapons: it is a “beam” tuned in a very different way. It would be a very long range “beam” tuned force field of fairly low strength. Any object deflected way ahead of ship’s path would need to be only deflected a small amount to avoid collision, but a closer object would have to be deflected more to avoid collision and need more power. The dish is needed to “tune” the beam to a very narrow angle so that it will work way ahead of the ship in this way. The deflector would therefor need minimal power (compared to “shields”) and, as an essential for certainly very high sublight speeds, be more able to sustain itself. I would suggest that, at superlight warp, ship has hardly any momentum (it shouldn’t have!) and thus any collision would have a far lower impact.

288. Spock's Brain - November 29, 2008

247. by Enterprise: “It’s never said Spock was the only Vulcan in Starfleet. It just says Spock is the only Vulcan on The Enterprise. Besides, Spock is half human and half Vulcan.”

The Constitution-class Intrepid (NCC-1631) has a mostly Vulcan crew.

Can somebody tell me which half of Spock is Human, which Vulcan?

289. Spocks BRAIN - November 29, 2008

Warp nacelles must be in pairs. As Andrew Probert explained in this web site’s 2005 interview, “Gene specified to me, in fact, that starship warp engines operate in pairs… because they’re codependent…. So in the same breath he negated [Franz Joseph's] three-engined dreadnoughts along with the single-engined destroyers [and scouts], on the edict simply that, to achieve warp drive, you had to have codependent warp engine pairs.”

trekplace.com

“…engines must always come in pairs. (I have heard that odd-number nacelle designs are allowed because each nacelle would house two warp coils, thus itself being its own pair, however the dual-coil housing design began only in TNG—then again, in JJ’s Starfleet, who knows what ‘details’ are being ‘re-cannonized).’

memory-alpha.org/

Most vessels typically have two nacelles. However, vessels can operate with one nacelle disabled, but at reduced warp speeds. (VOY: “Year of Hell”, ENT: “Twilight”) It is not unprecedented, though, for vessels to have different nacelle configurationss. For example, Federation Freedom-class starships have one, Niagara-class starships have three, Constellation-class and Prometheus-class starships have four nacelles. (TNG: “The Battle”, “The Best of Both Worlds, Part II”, VOY: “Message in a Bottle”)

The Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual states that the experiments with single and more than two nacelle designs, conducted in 2269, proved that having two nacelles is the optimal configuration for vessel control and power generation.

290. Spocks BRAIN - November 29, 2008

We know from the Star Trek Fact Files that the Freedom class is supposed to be a Galaxy-era ship design with only one nacelle

Of particular controversy is the book’s section on starships. Later Star Trek shows seemed to establish warp nacelles could only work in pairs, however the tantalizing dreadnought class had three nacelles (capable of warp 10 which was later established as being impossible). As well, the destroyer and scout class had single nacelles. Roddenberry ostensibly later revoked the book’s canon status, although there are so many urban legends about what Roddenberry said was official that, well, who knows, who cares. The dreadnought was darn sweet, having that “next year’s model” look about it and a kind of “oh, if only the Bush family had not cancelled Star Trek, what wonders we would have seen in subsequent seasons!” And that’s that.

291. Databrain - November 29, 2008

‘That’s fine if you don’t like the new alien, but just say that. I don’t think you need to say that it’s breaking canon. It’s really not breaking canon unless there is specific evidence saying that type of alien could not have been around at that time.’

There is no mention of it at all in diplomatic missions, no mention in historical references, no mention in over 700 hours of trek history. This new alien is basically an arbitrary additive. Which it wouldn’t have to be if they encountered it upon their journeys instead of it serving aboard a starship. But JJ felt the starwars sensibilities just had to be conspicuously thrown in.

292. S. John Ross - November 29, 2008

That pic of Captain Robau radiates gravitas and manly presence. THAT is a Captain I would follow into danger.

Now if only they could manage a pic of Captain Kirk with the same qualities. Metroyuppie Kirk to the rescue (oh, wait, gotta get a soy latte first; anyone else want anything?)

293. new deflector looks like a breast - November 29, 2008

incidentally spock WASN’T the first vulcan to serve in starfleet….that would be t’pol, circa enterprise season 4 on…

294. Daigs - November 29, 2008

So let’s see here:

“Starships need to have two nacelles.” – Franz Joseph’s Tech Manual had the Destroyer and Scout. Oh yeah but later on Roddenberry came along and gave his grand edict that removed them from canon. Actual pages from that book were used in the TOS Movies. What about the Enterprise D from “All Good Things” and how many other ships functioned with only 1 nacelle. The Destroyer and Scout also exist in Star Fleet Battles, which was pretty canon-based until TMP came out and knocked that out of the ballpark.

“No Aliens like that existed in TOS era.” – So where the hell did Phlox come from? I don’t recall hearing of any Denobulans prior to ENT. Same with the Suliban and Xindi.

And the complaints about the Enterprise… Let’s see how silly this is. Between the end of TOS and beginning of TMP they decided to completely gut the interior of the ship. Redo every inch of it. Replace every system. Upgrade all the electrical and computer components. Then on the outside the completely redid the secondary hull, added the photorp bays, new nacelles, struts and everything. If you took your house and told a contractor you wanted the entire inside of it gutted and redone. Then the entire outside scrapped and redone and key parts of the structure itself completely redone, you’re probably better off just building an entire new house. Yet because “It’s Canon” we believe that starfleet was dumb enough to redo the entire Enterprise but its the same Enterprise from the TOS.

Look how many contradictions existed in TOS. IN STVI Klingons had Purple Blood. They didn’t in TNG or DS9. hmmm.

It’s a fictional series. That’s right fiction. Not real. If your panties are all in a bunch because JJ isn’t “respecting” every aspect of your “Precious” (canon-that-is), then just assume Star Trek ended with Nemesis. And you can pretend that this movie isn’t “real” like the novels, or the video games, or the comic books or whatever. Then again, if those things aren’t real, why do they exist?

I am looking forward to this movie totally. It’s the first time I’ve been excited about Star Trek since DS9. I’m going to rate it based on whether its a good movie or not. And not come home and say “hmm well it was good but it completely disagreed with what happened in this episode of TOS and now my entire childhood is ruined.”

What if… Nero goes back in time and what he does, completely changes the future so that the entire existing Trek universe becomes negated and everything that happens from this movie going forward now becomes canon…? hmm I see some fanboys heads exploding…

295. BK613 - November 29, 2008

What is given about the Intrepid:
————————–
-Was the U.S.S. Intrepid (from Captain’s Log in “The Immunity Syndrome” (IM))
-Was a Starship (from dialog in IM. It should be noted that “Starship” was not a generic term in TOS but referred to Enterprise-type vessels only. Starship class, etc.)*
-Was crewed by 430 Vulcans (from dialog in IM.)
-In IM, was sent by Starbase 6 to investigate the loss of contact with star system Gamma 7A (from dialog in IM.)
-Prior to her loss in IM, was (possibly)** being serviced by the facilities at Starbase 11 (from dialog in “Court Marshall”.)
———————————–
Anything else is speculation but it certainly seems like the Intrepid was intended to be a Federation Starship.

*(Dialog in “Court Marshall” and “Bread and Circuses” state just how rare and difficult it was to become a Starship commanding officer. In addition, other ships were referred to as spaceship, warship, battlecruiser, space cruiser, garbage scow, etc.)

**(Could be a different Intrepid in that episode but that seems less logical than it being the same Intrepid.)

296. BK613 - November 29, 2008

291
IIRC in the episode “Journey to Babel,” the Enterprise is carrying over 100 delegates to the Federation conference on Babel. Can you name all the races implied by that number? Can you even name all the races actually shown on screen during that episode?

And you obviously weren’t paying attention to all the aliens that were on the Enterprise in TMP, which occurs just a mere 2 1/2 years after TOS/TAS.

And yes, the CGI alien looks like it could be a homage to Arex…

297. That Nutty Fanboy - November 29, 2008

#267, it is nonsense to deduct the makeup of an average starfleet crew judging only by the Enterprise. The Federation is sizeable, and the Enterprise carries a NCC of 1701 – so there are likely a couple of hundred ships in service at that point, not to mention a likely massively civilian infrastructure that is still Federation, though not Starfleet.

Now, considering that the various members species of the UFP have quite varied ambiental requirements… just look at Andorians, Humans and Vulcans. Andorians from an Ice world, Vulcans from a hot desert, Humans somewhere in the middle.. I doubt you would see Vulcans and Andorians on the same ship as they would not feel comfortable with eithers standard ambiental temperature – I’d go so far and claim that the times we saw them on human vessels in the open was not at their preferred levels of temperature etc. And those two species have needs rather comparable to humans. Who knows what kind of species serve in Starfleet other than that?
You might have Starfleet vessels manned by Xilopunians or whatever they might be called that have to breathe Methane? I doubt a human would find such an atmosphere pleasant.
Or take the Benzites and their breathing apparatus.. they require those to survive in the oxygen-nitrogen atmosphere prevalent on Starfleet ships manned by humans..

Just because we didn’T see a ship that was manned with a species other than humans (with the exception of the Intrepid and T’Kumbra, which with Vulcans were quasi-human vessels anyway) , doesn’t mean there aren’t any aliens in starfleet..

298. Paulaner - November 29, 2008

#291 “There is no mention of it at all in diplomatic missions, no mention in historical references, no mention in over 700 hours of trek history. This new alien is basically an arbitrary additive.”

Just like Dr. Phlox in Enterprise. Come on Databrain, there is no logic in your post. Star Trek universe is *full* of aliens. Do you really need a specific reference to a TV episode for every of them? Totally pointless.

299. fred - November 29, 2008

Right, every movie added aliens we never saw before on the TV shows, somewhere in the background. This one does the same. Some people just live to make up baseless criticisms.

300. AJ - November 29, 2008

291:

The new alien may not be referenced in the last 700 hours of Trek, but his introduction certainly follows in the tradition of Trek since TMP.

301. Paulaner - November 29, 2008

We must fight the idea that Star Trek has to be reduced to an encyclopedia, a list of races, events and starship schematics. Star Trek is *fantasy*, is the power of the mind, the power of ideas and principles. Give me something new every time I watch a Trek show, or it will rot and die.

302. Xai, (go Hawkeyes!) - November 29, 2008

291. Databrain – November 29, 2008
re: Alien officer

“There is no mention of it at all in diplomatic missions, no mention in historical references, no mention in over 700 hours of trek history. This new alien is basically an arbitrary additive. Which it wouldn’t have to be if they encountered it upon their journeys instead of it serving aboard a starship. But JJ felt the starwars sensibilities just had to be conspicuously thrown in.”

In over 700 hours of Trek and the non-canon stuff do we ever see a crewmember excuse themselves to use a restroom, come out of a restroom or even imply there is a single toilet on a starship. That makes toilets non-canonical too.

303. McCoy's Gall Bladder - November 29, 2008

Spock’s Brain

Doctor M’Benga was an expert on Vulcan physiology. If the budget had allowed, I’m sure that actor would have been Spock’s personal doctor just as Bones was Jim’s personal doctor

304. Paulaner - November 29, 2008

#302 “That makes toilets non-canonical too”

Best comment ever :)

305. Dom - November 29, 2008

I just love how the “Roddenberry Box” has become a disease throughout Star Trek fandom: first the obsession with creating a quasi-religious, Stalinist utopia, later spreading to geeks with a need to get ‘canon’ (schmanon!) to explain what all know is down to money and production values.

If Rodders could have had all of TOS tech looking like TMP, he would have. But there wasn’t the budget for ridged-forehead Klingons and Arex-style species.

If you want an explanation for why there’s a non-humanoid crewmember on the Kelvin, the simple one is that the filmmakers could afford to make one! Because (newsflash!) Star Trek isn’t real!

Given that TAS is now accepted ‘canon’ (schmanon!) anyway, given its usage on TOS-R, DS9 and Enterprise and its equal billing on startrek.com, we know there were non-humanoid races active on the Enterprise in the TOS era. Indeed TAS seems to have informed some of the look and scope of the new film.

People need to get with the fact that this is Star Trek made on a bigger budget than ever before and is taking therefore taking advantage of its bigger purse and modern filmmaking techniques.

This film appears to be everything we wish Filmation could have done with TAS, everything I dreamed of when reading the TOS comicbooks and novels.

Indeed, I hope the new film leads to a cartoon series based on the designs of the new movie to fill in the gap between this and the sequel.

306. Rick Sternbach - November 29, 2008

#285 – I’d much rather fiddle with things like a follow-on to the Phoenix, which probably could not have gone as far as alpha Centauri. I would have been comfortable with Gabe Koerner’s concept or Vektor’s, so taking the time to dream up yet another what-if Enterprise isn’t in the cards. I -might- doodle something after I get everything else out of the way for the next few months.

307. paul - November 29, 2008

The images look great but do they not have sex discrimation laws in the 23rd century? Or maybe we have our first all gay crew? Cool – some of them are cute (not the alien so much).

Joking aside, I despair at how sexist the casting has been for this film and it seems to be getting worse. Alias had a female lead plus a number of strong female support characters. This film doesn’t have a female lead and limited female support and it seems that only one of the established female characters has been given a role at all. One principal female character? This is Star Trek not Star Wars!

Sort it out guys.

308. monopolowa - November 29, 2008

Isn’t arguing over whether an alien we’ve never heard of violates cannon or whether a plot element in the movie goes against one line in an episode made 40 years ago missing the point?

Isn’t Star Trek at its best when it’s telling a character story that resonates with the audience? And when its adhering to Gene Roddenberry’s idea that humanity can achieve anything and solve its porblems peacefully if we just treat each other with basic respect? That’s always been my yardstick. And as long as the movie gives me that, I really don’t care that I’ve never seen some alien in the TOS era or whether the bridge has a viewscreen or a window.

309. Flarnack Jones - November 29, 2008

Is that crew bio information accurate? If so, it’s now canon that Kirk really was born in Riverside!

Roddenberry signed a proclamation there, but it’s never been mentioned in anything canon.

310. sean - November 29, 2008

#263, 266, 267, 291 etc.

Again, I think you need to address the difference between canon and fanon. You continue to say that TOS implied Spock was the most ‘exotic’ alien serving in Starfleet, yet I don’t recall any such implications. You interpreted certain bits of dialog that way, fine. But it doesn’t make it ‘canon’. And just because Spock is the only alien we saw serving aboard ship in TOS does not make any possible representation of other aliens serving aboard other starships in this film a de facto canon problem. It is ONLY a canon problem is there’s a line somewhere stating that this particular race never served or that they were wiped out thousands of years ago or that no aliens but Vulcans were allowed in Starfleet. Since none of those events ever transpired…well, I hope you get where I’m going with this.

See, ‘fanon’ is represented by notions like Spock was the only Vulcan in Starfleet or that McCoy was divorced with a daughter or that Carol Marcus was that ‘little blonde lab technician’. In fact, some people will swear up and down that there’s an episode confirming these facts, yet if you press them on it you’ll discover it’s just a perception they’ve developed over the years. And that’s okay, they’re welcome to it just as you are welcome to your view that this alien is unacceptable. All I’m saying is this is a personal gripe, not a canon one, and should be labeled as such.

“This is not being close minded, it is being somewhat pernickety about canon issues, I admit, but that is part and parcel of living the original Roddenberry vision of trek.”

I’m sorry, but that has nothing to do with Rodenberry’s ‘vision’ for Star Trek. HE couldn’t even keep the facts straight, as is clear from his ever-changing viewpoints on many aspects of the show, not to mention the fact that TOS’ idea of canon wasn’t exactly consistent. His vision was about a better future, and humanity improving itself. Not keeping a checklist of fictional details. He left that to others much later down the line.

In terms of it looking like a Star Wars alien, sorry but I don’t see that, either. That sill picture alone has more detail than any of George Lucas’ CGI abominations. In fact, it almost looks like a combination of practical and CGI, but I can’t really tell.

311. Paulaner - November 29, 2008

Hey guys, a *cuban* starship captain. A little piece of progressive thinking, in pure Trek style :)

312. sean - November 29, 2008

I think it’s a small thing, but I thought it was pretty cool that they allude to the fact that the Kelvin’s phasers can shoot high-powered ‘bolts’ as well as lower-powered ‘beams’. Kind of a tip of the hat to TOS’ ‘proximity phasers’, etc.

313. AJ - November 29, 2008

sean:

McCoy’s daughter is part of TAS (The Survivor), which many here think has been nudged into canon due to Trek’s own televised references to it.

314. new deflector looks like a nipple - November 29, 2008

i’m telling you guys…look at my name LOL that explains it all ^^^

315. Dom - November 29, 2008

If I remember correctly, TAS being ‘de-canonised’ was purely down to legal reasons at the time of the launch of TNG. This included it being banned from being mentioned on any shows or movies and in any licenced products.

Well we all know what’s happened to TAS continuity since:

Kirk’s middle name is confirmed in STVI:TUC. Klothos is confirmed. In DS9, there’s a ship named after Spock’s home city, Kor mentions his ship was called Klothos, Garak mentions orchids from Arex’s home planet.

TOS-R uses loads of designs based on TAS ships and adopts some of the camera angles. From the brief glimpse in the new film’s trailer the monster reminds me a bit of a Sur Snake.

Manny Coto was going to introduce the Kzinti in the hypothetical season five of Enterprise.

Characters, designs and concepts have all appeared regularly in licenced products such as comics and novels. Some novels have even become canon, such as Jeri Taylor’s Voyager books.

DC Fontana and David Gerrold were among several TOS writers who worked on the series. Roddenberry happily put his name on it at the time and almost the entire original cast performed the voices. Frankly, its look and feel was closer to TOS than any subsequent spin-off.

How much more ‘proper Star Trek’ can you get? The only possible weakness can be the low-budget nature of the animation, but that doesn’t diminish the stories.

startrek.com recognises the show and treats it the same as the others. Paramount/CBS remastered it and released it on DVD in similar packaging to all the other Treks. TAS, whatever the legal issues holding it back in the past, is accepted as canon by pretty much anyone with any common sense. I suspect even Gene Roddenberry, were he alive, would allow its use now!

316. Paulaner - November 29, 2008

#314

Oh no, sex in new Trek!

317. SChaos1701 - November 29, 2008

FIrst, to Databrain…IT’S FICTION!!!! For Christ’s sakes, you act like this stuff actually happened. I can’t believe I used to actually be a canonista like you…WHEN I WAS 19-20!!!! Then I learned that there is this thing called real life and that I should just enjoy a good story for what it is; a good story. Unfortunately, it’s canonistas like you that give Trekkers/Trekkies a bad name and make people who aren’t into Trek think we are all just a bunch of fat unbathed nerds who sit in our beds late a night under our Captain Kirk sheets with our hands down our Mr. Spock underroos while watching the Uhura fan dance scene during ST:V. Dang son, give it a rest and enjoy the movie.

318. BK613 - November 29, 2008

220
BTW, I’m sure you’ve seen it before but

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

:-)

319. snoopy - November 29, 2008

‘There is no mention of it at all in diplomatic missions, no mention in historical references, no mention in over 700 hours of trek history. This new alien is basically an arbitrary additive. Which it wouldn’t have to be if they encountered it upon their journeys instead of it serving aboard a starship. But JJ felt the starwars sensibilities just had to be conspicuously thrown in. ‘

Jeez databrain

How do you know what jj felt. Hiding that betazoid heritage?

And you know whats astonishing. Before next gen there was no mention of bolians, or spoon heads. And after TOS there was no sign of the gorn. Bizarre considering they met them so early on in the explored trek mythos that one didn’t turn up in any scene on any planet in all of next gen and ds9. Was the gorn erased from history at the end of TOS? Why is it if andoria joined the federation so early, that in all of next gen and DS9 there were only two appearances of an andorian, one of which was a simulation? And how many vulcans did we see post TOS. 10…. 20?

Was the observation that the federation was a ‘homosapiens only’ club accurate?

Also, to just look at the numbers for a second. In all of what has been shown on tv as startrek. how many crews have we seen. how many ships? Taking the prometheus registry of 74913 thats in military vessels the bones of 75 k ships of the federation during treks run. Of which we have seen even a glimpse of the crews of what. 100? And thats not the whole crews, thats just maybe a bridge if we are lucky. Buy let us imagine we have seen every single person on those 100 ships. In that VERY OPTIMISTIC case we would have seen what .1 percent of the people in starfleet serving on ships.

And in the remaining 99.9 percent of starfleet crews that have ever been, there is no room for a species we have not lucked across in that .1 percent we have seen? In a federation with 150 odd member planets many of which have still gone un named?

How can your view of something so utterly vast be so rigid given you have only seen the smallest imaginable fraction of it in any trek show. You have seen one grain of sand on a beach. One.

And just as in the entire run of trek after TOS one of the founding federation races makes only a handfull of tiny appearances, so too by those terms can any number of aliens appear in the crew of any ship and never be seen again.

To move onto the subject of the enterprise bridge. A lot of people seem to rag on it for looking so clean and ipodish. What did the original enterprise bridge look like to someone from the 60’s? It certainly does not look like a military bridge on any ship i have ever seen. Certainly not like a warship bridge. Not like a submarine either. Take a real hard look at the trek bridge of old and what do you see. Lots of large, minimal clean surfaces. Carpeted flooring. Lots of open space. Huge ( from a 60’s perspective) screens all around the bridge. In many ways i see the new enterprise bridge being to us as the old bridge was to people from the 60’s. Trek is about an optimistic view, and both bridges reflect bright clean views of future technology to the people they are aimed at.

320. Alec - November 29, 2008

I haven’t read the text spoilers: I’ve just glanced at the images. But I like what I see. Two of the things I asked for are in this new film. First, I wanted combat spiced up, notably with some small fighters. Second, I wanted some aliens that don’t look likely very slightly modified humans. Bringing a little Star Wars to Star Trek…

321. Alec - November 29, 2008

Sorry: ‘like’ not ‘likely’

322. Alec - November 29, 2008

Mind you, that guy, the security officer, is starting to remind me a bit of Sarris from Galaxy Quest…

323. Jeffries Tuber - November 29, 2008

The right wing canonistas who are arguing against the presence of heretofore unseen alien races in the new movie represent the lowest, most pathetic caricature of Star Trek fans. It’s extremely simple: television budgets do not permit appropriate alien character creation, and Paramount executives were like crack whores for the original crew..

The overuse of humanoid aliens, the lame TNG explanation of an alien race that seeded the galaxy with proto-humanoids, and the despicable proliferation of latex forehead aliens TNG-forward are the most embarrassing aspects of the art of Star Trek and the cultures it depicts.

As for the Kelvin’s single nacelle, I think it looks 100x more universe-appropriate to Star Trek than that abomination of a CG Millennium Falcon ripoff from ENTERPRISE. I loathe that ship and no one can argue with any artistic, scientific or technological persuasiveness that the ENT Enterprise looks like it precedes TOS.

Does anyone know if the actor portraying George Kirk was a ‘runner up’ to play James T? He certainly looks the part and is handsome in a steely kind of way, but I think Pine projects a lot more charisma. This George looks like a face on Mt. Rushmore, like a man whose heroism has frozen him in time. I think he and Tahir/Robau are two of the most intriguing actors we’ve seen so far. It’s unfortunate that JJKO didn’t go the distance and depict a practicing, if secular, Muslim Captain. It would certainly be a lot more timely than a Cuban Captain, which is more 1966 than 2009.

Is it just me, or would we all like Intel to streamline its website? I’d end up with a more favorable impression of Intel if their lame intro didn’t slow the site down.

To all right wing canonistas and the latex forehead alien blow up dolls they cuddle up to at night, in the words of Obama, “we will defeat you.”

324. Jordan - November 29, 2008

Having grown up in the eighties, my knowledge of TOS is limited (though I have all 10 films memorized line for line.) Was there ever any mention of Kirk’s parents? The only reference to Kirk’s childhood that I can immediately remember in the films is the campfire discussion between Kirk, Bones and Spock (one of the highlights of Star Trek V) where Kirk mentions singing songs around the campfire in Iowa as a boy.

325. Jordan - November 29, 2008

#323: you’re right that TV budgets inhibited make-up possibilities for alien races, but I really enjoyed that Next Gen. episode (“The Chase”) that explores the proto-humanoid race. It really touched on an aspect of Roddenberry’s vision of community or a common sense of humanity, even amongst those who aren’t the same race.

326. AJ - November 29, 2008

324:

We know from aired/filmed TOS that Kirk was born in Iowa, and spent some formative years on Tarsus IV. He had an older brother named Sam. No mention of his parents. His dad, George Samuel Kirk, was created in an early novel, I believe, but not in the show.

327. the king in shreds and tatters - November 29, 2008

Kirk should totally get it on with a Monchezkite in the sequel…

328. OneBuckFilms - November 29, 2008

323 – I agree with your point, but I wouldn’t call them “right wing”.

The Federation in Kirk’s time is, as stated by him to Zefram Cochrane, “over 1000 planets and spreading out.”

Although there is a propensity toward Humanoid life forms, due to ancient seeding (I forget which episode this was discovered in TNG), non-humanoid aliens do exist (“The Devil In The Dark”, “Skin of Evil”), and it is unreasonable to assume that all of the aliens in Starfleet during Kirk’s time were the only ones present.

The Enterprise has 430 officers and crew, and we rarely saw even close to that number on screen.

329. AJ - November 29, 2008

325:

And “The Chases” ties in well with TOS “Paradise Syndrome,” where the Preservers seeded the galaxy with humanoid life. “Fanon” says they’re one and the same.

330. Chris Basken - November 29, 2008

329…

The Chase… Ugh. One of the worse concepts ever. Evolution doesn’t work that way. But then I guess it was par for the course for TNG at that point. Wasn’t that the same season that had people “devolving”?

If they ever make a new Trek TV series, I hope they have actual scientific consultants to run this stuff by rather than whatever interns they used for previous shows (if any at all).

331. Chris Basken - November 29, 2008

“worst,” sorry.

332. Closettrekker - November 29, 2008

#90—-“Alnschloss K’Bentayr is another blatant stab against Canon. While it is an interesting looking alien it does resemble something more out of starwars than star trek. Such an alien was never featured in star trek prior to the emergence of species 8472 in voyager. ”

So…let me get this straight. You didn’t ‘see’ an alien depicted in Star Trek that resembled this one prior to VOY, so that species couldn’t exist in Star Trek canon before that time period?

So, in other words, none of the weird-looking aliens in TVH are canon either, right? I mean, you didn’t see them in TOS…

I think you need some new perspective on what constitutes a “stab against canon”.

You never saw members of the NCC-1701 crew going to the restroom either. Does that mean they never did?

333. SChaos1701 - November 29, 2008

333

I agree but I’ll go so far as to say that he needs a new perspective on what constitutes “reality.”

334. thomoz - November 29, 2008

15, 16 –

I think the ENTERPRISE in this movie has a window and not a viewscreen. At least it looks like that in he released shot of Spock standing at the fore of the bridge. You can see across the top of the dish, to the running lights.

335. SpocksSpleen - November 29, 2008

#332 He conveniently forgets TAS and also forgets the budget of the earlier shows didn’t allow to show aliens very often. TAS allowed them to show aliens as its easier to draw obviously but you cannot discount TAS as part of canon, because it is. Now shut up.

336. DGill - November 29, 2008

#323:

“To all right wing canonistas and the latex forehead alien blow up dolls they cuddle up to at night, in the words of Obama, “we will defeat you.””

I am not a “right wing” canonista (in fact, I could care less about canon), but for some reason I felt very offended by what you said. There’s no need for that kind of talk here.

337. Anthony Pascale - November 29, 2008

RE: ‘ring wing’
I get what you are saying but it looks like some kind of political thing which will divert into a whole other thing and thats no fun.

And again…this whole thing is devolving into being just about one poster, there are many thousands of visitors a day…shall we let one person dictate the discussion. Some people made up their mind long ago, so be it.

I say move on. I agree with those who say that the new intel site shows a combo of respect for the past (all the technobabble and the look of the ship and the “cage” ish uniforms), along with some exciting new things added to Trek like the new Alien.

RE: forehead aliens
In my review I noted ‘the days of slapping some latex on a forehead and calling it a day are over’ and I stand by that. I am sure even Michael Westmore would have loved to do more interesting things with the aliens than budgets and technology of the time allowed.

How sad would it be that after this movie came out, there were no new pages for the Star Trek Excyclopedia, just maybe details on older entries. The new people making this film from the make-up department to the actors, to the writers to JJ Abrams himself are all creative professionals. They are artists, not museum curators.

As I have noted previously, I think people who solely view this new movie through the prism of ‘what is different’ are missing out on a lot of the fun.

338. Canon Father - November 29, 2008

Kahless bless you, Anthony.

339. Thomas Jensen - November 29, 2008

New aliens are welcome. However, I always liked the idea that humans, vulcans, romulans and klingons were related somehow. Sure they had some differences, but visually very humanoid.

Of course, this was dictated by the production budget at the time, but it works for the drama, in that these are ‘races’ which are alien to one another, but share a common genetic history.

I don’t much relate to non-humanoid type aliens myself. I prefer those that look like us, who have something of the same nature as those of us from earth, I can be interested what other human type aliens bring to a story, but weird looking creatures which look more like they inhabit the soil in my backyard? Naw, not so much, but that’s just me.

Not that “Devil In The Dark” wasn’t a good story, but it’s quite exceptional.

340. Kestra - November 29, 2008

#294. Daigs
”And the complaints about the Enterprise… Let’s see how silly this is. Between the end of TOS and beginning of TMP they decided to completely gut the interior of the ship. Redo every inch of it. Replace every system. Upgrade all the electrical and computer components. Then on the outside the completely redid the secondary hull, added the photorp bays, new nacelles, struts and everything. If you took your house and told a contractor you wanted the entire inside of it gutted and redone. Then the entire outside scrapped and redone and key parts of the structure itself completely redone, you’re probably better off just building an entire new house. Yet because “It’s Canon” we believe that starfleet was dumb enough to redo the entire Enterprise but its the same Enterprise from the TOS.”

Change between TOS and TMP Enterorise is canon. ( refit )

Change between TOS Enterprise and Enterprise from the new movie is different thing. Is difficult explain that within canon. Because we see in TOS how Enterprise from that time looks like.
…………

341. Warp - November 29, 2008

I bet that Alnschloss K’Bentayr belongs to the same species as Lt. Arex form Star Trek: The Animated Series (TAS).

342. Spock's Brain - November 29, 2008

302. by Xai: “In over 700 hours of Trek and the non-canon stuff do we ever see a crewmember excuse themselves to use a restroom, come out of a restroom or even imply there is a single toilet on a starship. That makes toilets non-canonical too.”

LOL! Priceless!

343. Spock's Brain - November 29, 2008

303. by McCoy’s Gall Bladder: Doctor M’Benga was an expert on Vulcan physiology. If the budget had allowed, I’m sure that actor would have been Spock’s personal doctor just as Bones was Jim’s personal doctor.

M’Benga, MD! He sure made an impression. It would be cool if he’s on the new E.

344. Jeffries Tuber - November 29, 2008

Censorship is anti-Gene. It’s buckshot in the path of the Great Bird of the Galaxy. Left and Right, Conservative and Liberal: these are very straightforward metaphors for the central debate of this website.

My opinions are to the left on the themes, politics and expansion of Trek’s universe. But I’m to the right on Kirk, Spock, McCoy, the five year mission, IDIC and the keeping the sex in Star Trek.

The individuals on the right, who set forth arguments about what Trek is and is not, who attempt to exclude the visual art and storytelling of Star Trek are conservative in their approach. If Star Trek was endangered and nearing extinction, we’d call those people conservationists.

On the left are those who argue, like Gene Roddenberry did, that Star Trek is larger than the constraints of budgets or any one man’s vision. They argue that, ‘simply because we haven’t seen it, it doesn’t mean it wasn’t there.’ Those on the left are more likely to embrace Star Trek: The New Testament, er Next Generation, which gradually, and through it’s spin-offs, expanded the definition of the Federation, the types of stories told (station-based drama, war, internal UFP politics). If we all were living in some evil futuristic Star Trek TOS cult on Futurama, we’d call these people liberators.

Let’s dispense with the political sensitivities, thicken up our hides! Star Trek is cool for so many reasons, but pressing political buttons through the prism of a ‘wagon train to the stars’ influenced by Horatio Hornblower stories is part of its indispensable core. Star Trek is a product of the 1960s, it went off the air the same year MLK and RFK were assassinated.

Don’t take the politics out of Star Trek.

345. Jeffries Tuber - November 29, 2008

correction:
…who attempt to exclude the visual art and storytelling [that doesn't match or comply with a prior episode or feature]

346. Anthony Pascale - November 29, 2008

The policies of this site are what they are. I did not issue warnings which count towards possible bans, but I will do so.

so the ‘right wing’ ‘fascist’ and other over the top and political stuff is out of bounds. Comments on policies to
http://trekmovie.com/about/feedback

347. Xai, (go Hawkeyes!) - November 29, 2008

I like the Kelvin. Looking at the trailer, I love the stance of her as she squares off against the enemy at the initial stages of the firefight we see. Despite the obvious shape difference, I can almost see her posed as a nautical ship would be if this was a battle at sea scene in a movie.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

#341 Warp
I don’t think so. Arex was Edoan. His head was blocky, no pointed ears. I’d like to see that nod to TAS, but this guy is cool and I love having a big budget movie that can add texture like this to Trek’s universe. I see no overt Star Wars nod here. It’s a big universe and we are bound to meet more civilizations than the few TOS introduced.

348. the king in shreds and tatters - November 29, 2008

342.

“I’ve got to go to waste extraction!”
-Rom, “Call to Arms.”

349. Jeffries Tuber - November 29, 2008

That’s fitting, really. because nearly ever person on this site is conservative or on the right when it comes to Star Trek. The only arguments are over what is and is not so it follows that there’d be a ban on slanders against… us. It’s like Turkey, where it’s a crime to speak ill of Ataturk.

If there’s a single left-winger to be found on this site, arguing that canon is dispensable and that the triangular Primary Hull on Voyager was a good idea… speak now.

I’m not commenting on policy, but on the nature of Star Trek.

The term canonista is derived from Council of Nicea and Vatican terminology, and radical Latin American politics. Am I wrong? It fits because it implies an insurgency against the people in charge of wwhat is and is not canon. I was a RWC in the Berman, Sternbach & Braga years, which de-sexed Star Trek and enacted the great latex heresies of the late 20th Century.

You can take away my metaphor, but you can never take away my freeedooooooom!

350. Xai, (go Hawkeyes!) - November 29, 2008

348. the king in shreds and tatters – November 29, 2008
342.

“I’ve got to go to waste extraction!”
-Rom, “Call to Arms.”

Fine. I’ll concede that one even though I think it was a reference to a recycling department and not for a biological function…

but I don’t want to know how they did it.

Either way, my point was made.

351. The Last Maquis - November 29, 2008

that’s a pretty cool looking alien guy. Hate The Kelvin’s Look though.

352. Chadwick - November 29, 2008

I like what I hear…I like the small details like different uniform when we go back 20 years etc.

353. Xai, (go Hawkeyes!) - November 29, 2008

re: 347
I said Arex was Edoan. I was mistaken, he was Edosian.

354. SChaos1701 - November 29, 2008

I first coined the term “canonista” because it was a play on the words “canon” and “Sandinista” from the Iran-contra affair. I just thought it sounded kinda cool.

355. commander K, - November 29, 2008

#90 Databrain.

Can someone please beam him out into space.

You talk utter rubbish.

356. Warp - November 29, 2008

@347 Xai

Yeah, Arex was Edoisan. But, TAS isn’t strictly cannon, so it is possible to bend it a little in the case of new cool alien. :)

357. KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!! - November 29, 2008

349. “If there’s a single left-winger to be found on this site, arguing that canon is dispensable and that the triangular Primary Hull on Voyager was a good idea… speak now.”

WOOF!!!!

358. Anthony Pascale - November 29, 2008

no more real life politics…and that is final!

359. Binker - November 29, 2008

I would really love it if we got to see more, alot more, of the Enterprise than the Kelvin like this.

360. Kirk's Girdle - November 29, 2008

It’s a shame they made Tahir a Cuban. A middle eastern captain was an awesome statement for this day and age.

361. Anthony Pascale - November 29, 2008

RE: canonista
I looked it up and apparently the first use of ‘canonista’ on this site was in the comments on January 5th 2007
http://trekmovie.com/2007/01/05/tos-writer-david-gerrold-approves-of-trek-xi-prequel-and-trek-remastered/

and it was me. And actually soon after that there was a regular poster here who changed her name to ‘Canonista’, but havent seen her around again.

362. Kirk's Girdle - November 29, 2008

Not to mention Vulcanista

363. Robert H. - November 29, 2008

If the Kelvin is this fantastic, imagine the Enterprise.

364. Robert H. - November 29, 2008

And how long till we get a working interactive view of the Enterprise?

365. KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!! - November 29, 2008

358.

sorry dad ;-)

366. TOS Enterprise - November 29, 2008

To all the people screaming this thing or that thing in the new movie violates canon.

[During a game of chess in Where No Man Has Gone Before]

Spock: I’ll have you checkmated your next move.

Kirk: [chuckles] Have I ever mentioned you play an irritating game of chess, Mr. Spock?

Spock: Irritating? Ah, yes… one of your Earth emotions.

[Kirk checkmates Spock]

Kirk: Certain you don’t know what irritation is?

Spock: The fact one of my ancestors married a human female…

Kirk: Terrible, having bad blood like that.

Please people. Give me a break. Give it rest. Enjoy a new Star Trek movie. And stop finding silly things like a window on the bridge or an alien on the Kelvin that we’ve never seen before or whatever else you’ll be complaining about next week. There’s a new Star Trek movie coming out. It looks great. Seems like it will be a lot of fun. And smart. You should go check it out. With open minds.

367. Kirk's Girdle - November 29, 2008

Off subject:

Anthony, when you saw the four clips was the music temp or was it from the actual score, and if so did any cues sound familiar?

368. Kelvington - November 29, 2008

Since we are all getting on the canon bandwagon, I figured I’d show you this, I think Anthony was going to use it next week. –
http://kelvington.com/StarTrekCannon.jpg

369. Al - November 29, 2008

Canonista is a Spanish word meaning an expert in canonical (religious) law.

370. Alex Rosenzweig - November 29, 2008

#266 – “I agree with the premise that we have only ever encountered a fraction of the allied species, however the original series made good use of spocks alien nature to promote the notion that, at that point in trek history, there are very few alien species serving aboard starships.”

I think you’re extrapolating from very minimal data on that one. That Spock was the only Vulcan on a mostly Human ship wa established, but that few aliens served in StarFleet really wasn’t. And as soon as they had the capability to show more aliens, e.g., in TAS, they did.

Of course, if you’re willing to reach beyond just looking at film, by later in the 5-year mission, there were lots of aliens serving aboard the Enterprise, especially if you enjoy Diane Duane’s work. And just a few years after that, in TMP, we saw quite a number of alien species serving aboard Enterprise.

Even just sticking with filmed evidence, it’s working against your posit. ;)

“We know vulcans have, and it is debatable whether or not the intrepid is a full pledged federation vessel or a sort of vulcan intern ship.”

The only viable evidence suggests that it’s a ship much like the Enterprise, especially the consistent references too 400+ crewmembers…just like the Enterprise.

“My problem is not with encountering never before seen alien species it is that 1-this particular species is serving aboard a starship, 2-it looks like a non-humanoid species from starwars and 3-If such aliens were serving aboard starships one might have ventured to assume they’d have been at least mentioned in passing at some point during the 700 hours of trek film history. This is a plausible canon gripe.”

I really think that in a Trek world which had folks like Caitians and Edoans on starships, let alone Sulamids, Eseriats, and Mizarthu, a Mochezkean wouldn’t be too huge a reach. :)

#276-277 – James D., is that you? :)

371. Andrew - November 29, 2008

Beta quadrant, pre-TOS????

372. Alex Rosenzweig - November 29, 2008

371 – Why not? Sol is, after all, right on the Alpha/Beta line.

373. Enterprise - November 29, 2008

Isn’t the Klingon Homeworld in Beta Quadrant?

374. Warp - November 29, 2008

@371 Kronos and Romul are situated in the Beta Quadrant, Earth is close to the Beta-Alpha border…. So, I reall not see any problem……

375. Jordan - November 29, 2008

Thanks Anthony for the reminder about keeping comments here civil and out of the gutter. We’re Trek fans, we’re better than that.

376. Dr. Image - November 29, 2008

#340 Kestra
Thank you. You are now yet another voice of reason:

(“Change between TOS Enterprise and Enterprise from the new movie is different thing. Is difficult explain that within canon. Because we see in TOS how Enterprise from that time looks like.”)
Well, the point gets across…
Any questions?

But you know what? The movie is going to make money anyhow.
Because people today don’t care, and have little, if any, attention span.

Personally, I like the Kelvin and its crew and uniforms- from what I can see. I predict that sequence will rule.

377. Enterprise - November 29, 2008

Kirk says in TOS that there are 12 starships in the fleet like the Enterprise in the third season. I wonder if we’ll see more Enterprise style ships?

378. McCoy's Gall Bladder - November 29, 2008

I dont understand what the debate is about anymore

I just complain about things not thought all the way though

I cant stand half assedness

379. Kirk's Girdle - November 29, 2008

Looking at the 3D Kelvin, I do like the massive engine.

380. Kirk's Girdle - November 29, 2008

You know, it reminds me of a German V1 buzzbomb.

381. K.M.Kirby - November 29, 2008

In the trailer, the Kelvin appears in the midst of a battle scene. What’s interesting about this glimpse is that the ship appears to be moving sideways, tilting and slipping horizontally as opposed to just travelling in a straight line. Although such motion may sound extraordinary, it does represent a new landmark in special effects, and in the simulation of ship motion in a zero-g environment.

382. Spock Jenkins - November 29, 2008

Jumping the gun here, but what I’d like to see in the NEXT Star Trek movie….the motion picture retelling of ‘Space Seed’ –

STAR TREK: THE RISE OF KHAN…

Javier Bardem taking over from the legendary Ricardo Montalban.

‘Nuff Said.

383. Databrain - November 29, 2008

‘Just like Dr. Phlox in Enterprise.’

Enterprise was a blatant insult against canon (Vulcans are suddenly weaker than humans? Weren’t they suppose to be 10 times the strength?). So it is safe to assume that enterprise can be safely ejected from consideration in the time-line prior to the 23rd century. Just because berman and braga forced it upon us, does not mean we need except it. As stated earlier, I think if roddenberry were alive he might have sued the duo for defamation of the vulcans alone.

‘ Come on Databrain, there is no logic in your post. Star Trek universe is *full* of aliens.’

People keep making this argument as if I ever contended the trek universe is full of aliens. What I speaking about is a specific time-line variable pertaining to aliens, or what type and to what degree, they served aboard starships. Not onc have I contended that the trek universe is not full of aliens, both encountered and unencountered. I just think this new addition is arbitrary and unnecessary. And that they could have had one we have heard of but never seen before.

‘Do you really need a specific reference to a TV episode for every of them?’

Not if it was happening in a future trek time-line. But since it is happening in an already established time-line that is now being conveniently retrofitted so the lazy writers can inject all sorts of arbitrary things into it. Yes. It would have been more challenging for them to actually have to work within canon, so they threw it out essentially. Even though they keep saying there will be canon resolution. Which is the number one reason I am contending this.

384. Kirk's Girdle - November 29, 2008

Looking at the picture above it looks like they decided to honor George Kirk by basing the Starfleet delta shield logo on the shape of his nose.

385. McCoy's Gall Bladder - November 29, 2008

I can only hope this movie is better than Armageddon…

386. Databrain - November 29, 2008

317 said:
‘FIrst, to Databrain…IT’S FICTION!!!! For Christ’s sakes, you act like this stuff actually happened. I can’t believe I used to actually be a canonista like you…WHEN I WAS 19-20!!!! Then I learned that there is this thing called real life and that I should just enjoy a good story for what it is; a good story. Unfortunately, it’s canonistas like you that give Trekkers/Trekkies a bad name and make people who aren’t into Trek think we are all just a bunch of fat unbathed nerds who sit in our beds late a night under our Captain Kirk sheets with our hands down our Mr. Spock underroos while watching the Uhura fan dance scene during ST:V. Dang son, give it a rest and enjoy the movie.’

I am willing to bet you are everything you accuse me of being here. And that I am 1-More physically fit than you ever were or will be 3-Probably about 20 years younger than you, if not more, and 3-Quite obviously more mature than you. If you are going through a mid-life crisis, maybe you need to take a trip somewhere to deal with the forces of gravity?

387. SB - November 29, 2008

Let me try to solve the ENTIRE canon/not canon issue with one swift, brilliant stroke.

Ready?

Brace yourselves, now. (Rolls up sleeves, spits on palms, goes “ew,” pauses to wash them thoroughly, and returns.)

Sorry about that. Where were we? Ah yes. Swift brilliant stroke. Here it comes…

… wait for it…

Okay, the movie isn’t canon. And it doesn’t matter, it never did, and it never will.

Happy now, everyone?

Sheesh, some people are never satisfied…

388. ME! - November 29, 2008

Interesting…it would appear that the uniforms during the U.S.S. Kelvin “era” are somewhat reminiscent of the uniforms during the Original Series’ first pilot, The Cage, just as the uniforms during the Enterprise “era” of the film are revamped versions of the ones worn in the regular series episodes.

Rather cool.

389. Captain Robert April - November 29, 2008

All I have to add to this is that I bought a model of the Jupiter II from Rick Sternbach off of eBay a couple of years ago and that, regrettably, it was lost during an eviction back in January.

Sorry, Rick, I was really looking forward to building that one.

390. Jeffries Tuber - November 29, 2008

the suggestion above of Javier Bardem as Khan is funny, because Tahir plays Latino, while the Latinos are expected play Indo-Persian.

391. The Last Maquis - November 29, 2008

I agree about the “No real life politics” in the posts as well.

By the way it’s a good Thing the Survivors of the Kelvin were able to “Bail out” when they did :P

392. Spocks Brain is between his vulcan ears - November 29, 2008

-387. SB

I think the production team was making a star wars movie.. then they glued a huge nacelle on one ship (they didnt have time to make a second one), added some fake ears and horrible powder that made the alien vulcan look like plastic, gave a 3 year old a pencil to redesign the enterprise in a hurry and they renamed the movie STAR TREK 11

I bet we are going to see robots that walk in this movie (something that we never saw on star trek)

oh boy Roddenberry will be doing somersaults in his grave….

393. Spocks Brain is between his vulcan ears - November 29, 2008

whoever is stupid enough to say that star trek is just movies… they failt to understand the power of it all….

these are not movies, they are blueprints for the future…

and being that, much care and thought must be put into these, by people who understand ….

I dare say that star trek should become “open source” in the fufure, a platform for us all to draft what humanity will be like.

394. cellojammer - November 29, 2008

I just looked again. It says Captain Robau was “Born in Sagua La Grande, Cuba”. It doesn’t say he is ETHNICALLY Cuban. I hope they keep him of MIddle Eastern descent, because that would be completely in line with Trek’s tradition of inclusiveness. Just like Chekov!

395. cellojammer - November 29, 2008

393.

“whoever is stupid enough to say that star trek is just movies… they failt to understand the power of it all….

these are not movies, they are blueprints for the future…”

Trek is first and foremost a form of entertainment to me. With a little philosophy and extrapolated science thrown in. It makes me feel good and it makes me think a bit. That’s about it.

So I guess I must be pretty stupid. Allow me to say the one thing my mind can process at any given time: “Duuuhhhhhh!”

396. Chris Basken - November 29, 2008

#393: “I dare say that star trek should become “open source” in the fufure, a platform for us all to draft what humanity will be like.”

Isn’t that called, you know, reality?

397. Jordan - November 29, 2008

WOW. A “rise of Khan” sequel to the forthcoming film is a brilliant, brilliant idea, actually… Javier Bardem? Golden.

398. Veridian - November 29, 2008

To me, the bridge module of the Kelvin, with it’s window and dome, looks exactly like the Jupter 2 embedded into the top of the primary hull.

399. Brett Campbell - November 29, 2008

256- I agree, and I’m relieved that I’m not the only one to think this. These one-nacelled ships are fugly.

400. Xai - November 29, 2008

383. Databrain – November 29, 2008
‘ But since it is happening in an already established time-line that is now being conveniently retrofitted so the lazy writers can inject all sorts of arbitrary things into it. Yes. It would have been more challenging for them to actually have to work within canon, so they threw it out essentially. Even though they keep saying there will be canon resolution. Which is the number one reason I am contending this.”

Lazy writers, canon thrown out, Too mnay new aliens..etc…hmmm.
I’ll assume you make that contention based on having seen the whole movie. Lucky you.

In my opinion you “contend” everything because you don’t like what you’ve seen or read so far and it challenges what you think Trek should be.
Not everything new violates canon just because it is new. If that were the case, the show would die before the second episode.

401. Xai - November 29, 2008

393. Spocks Brain is between his vulcan ears – November 29, 2008
“whoever is stupid enough to say that star trek is just movies… they failt to understand the power of it all….”

You don’t allow for the difference of opinion, do you? Generally we don’t call other posters “stupid” or other names in here.

402. cellojammer - November 29, 2008

401. Xai

It’s good to know you will always take the high road here. We need a voice of reason amongst the all the emotional histrionics.

Thanks!

403. Xai - November 29, 2008

#392
…and Star Trek robots don’t walk (well, one does), they generally were held up by piano wire and “float”.

404. Admiral Powers - November 29, 2008

Fine, I’m getting on the canon bandwagon too.

I want, nay demand an in-universe explanation as to why homo sapiens ceased peeing sometime between the era of Zefram Cochrane and Jonathan Archer.

Canon clearly demonstrates that Zefram Cochrane occasionally had to pee. However, as others have pointed out, since we have never actually witnessed James T. Kirk relieving himself, it obviously never actually happened.

If this movie fails to provide an in-universe explanation for James T. Kirk’s inability to pee it will be a horrendous failure and I will only see it three times in the theater and will wait to buy the DVD until a week after it comes out.

405. Admiral Powers - November 29, 2008

By the way, if I get booted off the board for using the word “pee,” so be it.

406. Xai, inventor of the "transporter in the shorts" - November 29, 2008

#404 Admiral

LOL.

(Advanced adult diapers, also known as transporter-in-the-shorts)
………….
#402 Thanks Cello

407. Enterprise - November 29, 2008

It was all those beers Zefram drank.

408. David (Flaming Wings Forever) - November 29, 2008

To Rick Sternback – it’s cool your posting, even with occasional rabid fan making this experience less enjoyable. You insights have opened up a different view into Trekdom.

To Databrain – it’s sorta cool that you’ve devoted all of this time and energy into (1) amassing such a massive knowledge base of all things Trek; (2) defending the cannonistas against the revisionists; and (3) that you’re willing to see the movie.

It’s entirely possible that this movie ‘resets’ the entire Star Trek universe. At first I was mortified at the possibility. No Shatner? That storm passed, albeit not quietly. Then there was was the changes to the E. That stunned me and made me wonder. Then the footage came out, the trailer and what do you know? I am embracing it.

Right now I have no issues with it, because frankly it’s finished and is waiting for release. I can hardly wait.

It’s Trek. It’s cool. And even if I have to volunteer days and nights to help rewrite Memory Alpha after it comes out, I think it’s worth it.

Time for something new. Imagine, maybe by the time they do the sequel, we’ll have a ‘New Next Generation’ about to launch on TV.

* Let the Storm Begin*

409. Blowback - November 29, 2008

Admiral Powers

I am soooo behind you on this!

410. SChaos1701 - November 29, 2008

386:

If you must know, I’m 28 so there you go with that. And getting pissy and getting your Mr. Spock underroos in a twist over a FICTIONAL franchise just goes to prove that you do not have any maturity in that you don’t seem to have to your head completely bolted in reality.

411. BK613 - November 29, 2008

361
As long as you are not claiming to have invented the term ’cause it is ancient (in Internet years anyway, appearing in Usenet at least as early as 2001)

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.tv.star-trek/browse_thread/thread/ba3e3b0239d3bb17?hl=en&q=canonista#4ae137f35e094015

412. cellojammer - November 29, 2008

410 SChaos1701

Well, he got one thing right:

“3. Probably about 20 years younger than you”

Which would make him around 8 years old.

LOL!

413. SChaos1701 - November 29, 2008

411

Oh wow….I didn’t know it was around that long. I just used it one day in a post and thought no one else ever did. My bad. Reminds me of the whole Sharpshooter/Scorpion Death Lock thing.

414. Databrain - November 29, 2008

‘In my opinion you “contend” everything because you don’t like what you’ve seen or read so far and it challenges what you think Trek should be.’

We should definitely differentiate between treks original vision, set forth by roddenberry and those who have sought to degrade trek into a fascimile of everything else. There is nothing ‘chalenging’ about turning trek into something whose pacing resembles starwars or some other action-sci fi on the market. Semantically confusing the issue is not the same thing as accurately contesting it.

415. Databrain - November 29, 2008

‘If you must know, I’m 28 so there you go with that. And getting pissy and getting your Mr. Spock underroos in a twist over a FICTIONAL franchise just goes to prove that you do not have any maturity in that you don’t seem to have to your head completely bolted in reality.’

Okay so you’re a few years older than me and yet you still act infinitely less mature by bringing accusations as to my personal life into this, which is not only ad hominem but serves only to reveal that you have a lack of contributed substance pertaining to the subject at hand. If you want to try contending what I say, do so, otherwise bringing accusations of ones personal life into it is a blank wall that only wastes your own mental energy. I don’t think people ‘think’ this or that specifically about the core trek fandom, I think what you have is an army of idiots out there spreading the lie. Essentially most modern film goers might think trekkies are strange, but why that should be taken as insulting is beyond me. It is part and parcel to being committed to a vision of the future you truly admire. Closed minds are not going to be miraculously opened by dumbing things down. Where anyone gets this idea is also a matter of research and debate.

416. Bentarrow - November 29, 2008

I think what’s important is that they do not TNGize TOS as they tried to do with Enterprise. Having a security officer as an interesting DIFFERENT non-human Federation member is a positive step. The whole reason why Trek has to keep going back in time is because quite frankly they wrote themselves into a corner. In TNG all the races generally had to conform to the same utopia and weren’t allowed to differ – any unique traits such as the honorable expansionistic Romulans with plasma torpedoes were rewritten.

Journey to Babel in an hour seemed to introduce us to four different races each with unique cultures that would take a lifetime to understand in a single hour in contrast to TNG which introduced us to a hundred boring generic humanoid races. Let’s not do that again!

In this TOS I hope we get to see ships that aren’t perfect and need dilithium crystals with crews that aren’t perfect yet still manage to boldly go. I hope it takes weeks to recieve a message from Starfleet Command.

I hope the Romulans are an honorbound expansionist empire in plasma torpedo armed Birds of Prey. I hope the Klingons are an aggressive trecharious race ruling over a hundred worlds with an iron fist in their D- crusiers armed with disruptors. I hope we get the aggressive “good guys” in the Andorians.

I think an example of the power of TOS is just how interesting the races are in the Star Fleet Battles spin off (which ironically in some ways is more respectful of TOS canon then TNG). Let’s see the Lyrans with expanding sphere generators and the Kzinti! Let’s have a Federation Exploration Treaty Zone.

Also, glad to see George Kirk in there. I really wish they had decided to make Diane Carey’s “Final Frontier” into a movie. It had everything – fun, action, adventure, exploration, imagination and wouldn’t have violated canon as much as this movie is going to. Oh well.

417. BK613 - November 29, 2008

413
as yes good old Usenet. been around since before TWOK.

418. Xai - November 29, 2008

#414 Databrain

“We should definitely differentiate between treks original vision, set forth by roddenberry and those who have sought to degrade trek into a fascimile of everything else. There is nothing ‘chalenging’ about turning trek into something whose pacing resembles starwars or some other action-sci fi on the market. Semantically confusing the issue is not the same thing as accurately contesting it.”

WE should?
That’s an opinion of yours, not a statement of fact. Gene R was the creator, but not the only person driving the wagon train. Many people have contributed to Trek’s 40+ year legacy and that has resulted in a rich, textured fictional universe.
And if you are referring to the subsequent series as inferior…sometimes they were, but more often than not they were at least on par with TOS. If you are referring to this new movie, that’s not an argument anyone can make because no one has seen the complete product yet. I see nothing factual that indicates JJ Abrams or the writers have been lazy or attempting to make this a copy of “everything else”. And you refer to “pacing” like you have seen the movie, which I highly doubt. The same applies to “challenges”. No one here can yet know what a challenge it was to write or direct a film with such a huge universe of continuity and canon already in place. Canon that in many areas contradicted itself. I’d find it a daunting task.
Perhaps your critique would carry more weight when more is known.

419. Alex Rosenzweig - November 29, 2008

#408 – ‘It’s Trek. It’s cool. And even if I have to volunteer days and nights to help rewrite Memory Alpha after it comes out, I think it’s worth it.”

Why should it have to be rewritten? More realistically, though, a whole new Abramsverse section might have to be added.

420. Bentarrow - November 29, 2008

“set forth by roddenberry”

– Which Roddenbery; ex police officer, writer Roddenbery describing Star Trek as that of “Wagon Train to the Stars” of the 60s or the “visionary” Roddenbery of the 90s pissed off with TWOK?

421. McCoy's Gall Bladder - November 29, 2008

re: 408

“It’s entirely possible that this movie ‘resets’ the entire Star Trek universe. At first I was mortified at the possibility. No Shatner? That storm passed, albeit not quietly. Then there was was the changes to the E. That stunned me and made me wonder. Then the footage came out, the trailer and what do you know? I am embracing it.”

I’m more disappointed that De Kelley, James Doohan, and Mark Lenard arent in it…

422. SChaos1701 - November 29, 2008

414 and 415

I love how these people who can’t seem to discern reality from fiction like to make Roddenberry out to be some visionary. He created a TV show to (say it with me folks) MAKE MONEY. He wrote a story that would get on TV and make him to bank and that’s all there is to it. And he did a damn good job of it to say the very least. Oh he created a vision of the future…no, he created a TV show and movies which he coined as a Space Western to entertain. That’s all it is…ENTERTAINMENT and FICTION. Get over yourself. I love Star Trek. It’s one of my favorite forms of ENTERTAINMENT. At the end of the day, I still have work, school, and this little thing called REAL LIFE to contend with. People like Databrain remind me of Barbara Adams and I think I can speak for a lot of people here when I say that I don’t want people like her representing me or my fandom. Now, if you’ll excuse me…I’ll just go ahead and keep on reading this blog and waiting for the film to come out that finally gives Star Trek the treatment (budget, special effects, ect) that it so sorely needs.

423. McCoy's Gall Bladder - November 29, 2008

422:

I’ve been saying that on Wikipedia for years, but no…..

I tried to explain to them how the original concept of the Borg was what the Soviets were imagined to be. Now of course the Borg are cute and cuddly and every starship wants one. The horror is gone.

424. Weerd1 - November 29, 2008

Found something interesting over in the Specials section at Trek Core. Click here to check out one of Matt Jefferies’ Enterprise concept sketches. Specifically the side view. Hmmmm…..

http://www.trekcore.com/specials/albums/sketches/STTOS_Sketch_EnterpriseConcept12.jpg

425. McCoy's Gall Bladder - November 29, 2008

yeah that’s the original Enterprise sketch

they turned it upside down & ran with it

Same thing with the Reliant. When the director or producer or someone looked at the sketch, it was upside down and they liked it

426. Yspano - November 29, 2008

I think it’s really great that a piece of fiction can inspire belief in a better tomorrow, but I think that vision is best served through practical application rather than through passionate defense of narrative integrity.

427. Admiral Powers - November 29, 2008

424. Weerd1

The site your reference is now forbidden.

I smell cover up. Maybe those designs hint that the Enterprise had a bathroom. ;-)

428. Admiral Powers - November 29, 2008

406 — Xai: Kinda gives a new meaning to “Captain, if I push it any harder, the whole thing’ll blow!”

409 — Thanks. I need all the help I can get.

429. Admiral Powers - November 29, 2008

407 — you are violating canon. Z liked his liquor hard. Therefore, there was no beer in his time.

430. Chris Basken - November 29, 2008

423: “I tried to explain to them how the original concept of the Borg was what the Soviets were imagined to be. Now of course the Borg are cute and cuddly and every starship wants one. The horror is gone.”

The Borg were space zombies, pure and simple. Zombies always work as a horrific villain group. TNG needed villains, Romero movies were making a comeback, it was the perfect unification. Any political association was added after the fact.

431. David (Flaming Wings Forever) - November 29, 2008

Woah. I think I’ve solved it.

Seriously.

I am not trolling, being derisive, or rude.

I respect my fellow posters.

Seriously. No puns intended.

Databrain.

He needs to get laid. It will relax him. It will bring him back into the fold.

*Offers a cup of JJ coolaid*

432. Browncoat aka Space Cowboy - November 30, 2008

Bentarrow – November 29, 2008 , 419. Alex Rosenzweig – November 29, 2008

#408 – ‘It’s Trek. It’s cool. And even if I have to volunteer days and nights to help rewrite Memory Alpha after it comes out, I think it’s worth it.”

Why should it have to be rewritten? More realistically, though, a whole new Abramsverse section might have to be added.

Well said guys…..

Dr.Who changed for the 21st century and as time marches…we should get used to new actors in old roles and let them make it theirs…..
and new approaches….looking forward to seeing more of the Kelvin…
everybody knows about “Forbidden Planet” but get yourself an education and rent a few episodes of “Rocky Jones:Space Ranger” and pick out the similarities.

433. Canon Father - November 30, 2008

According to some of you out there, Star Trek must not be allowed to evolve.

That leads to extinction.

Sorry, gotta go with Darwin on this one.

434. nephron - November 30, 2008

“Some fans have worried that this new film will be re-writing the book on Trek, but from the above we can see that one they are paying attention to is the technical manual.”

Screw the technical manual. A lot of the stuff in there doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, and besides, all this technobabble crap was made up years after TOS…since this movie takes place during the TOS era, why not reboot the bad ideas?

?!

Of all the things to fret about. I can understand questioning changes to characters’ backgrounds and histories, but the b.s. technobabble? A whole lot of stuff in the technical manuals (especially the TNG one) not only doesn’t make any sense, but is itself a re-imagining of the original concepts. Example: the “navigational deflector”. In TOS it looked like a radar dish, and was obviously…some kind of sensor-dish. They changed it from a sensor-thingie into the “navigational deflector”. Other example: the “warp core” was first seen in TMP. It was clearly just a big power conduit. In TNG, they CHANGED the glowing tower thing into the “warp core” which is a horribly lame idea when you look at Jeffires’ basic design.

So if the TNG people can rewrite the techno details, why can’t Abrams’ crew? I think they should completely ignore a lot of the “techno-canon” simply because so much of it is really bad.

The thing about “canon” is that, so many of these little details were throwaway dialogue fillers that the writers evidently didn’t think through. Also consider how many different writers there were all coming up with this stuff. It’s not as if all these details come from a single, unified vision (like how Frank Herbert painstakingly came up with all the background info & ecology for Dune), so Star Trek canon is bound to be a jumbled, nonsensical mess. Why not throw out some of the techno-details?

435. Chris Pike - November 30, 2008

424. Weerd1 Great find, nice to think his genious is still being drawn upon!

436. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - November 30, 2008

I gotta say, I really like the Bussard collectors / forward end of the nacelle caps on the Kelvin. I would like to see more images of the STXI Enterprise, but I think I like the Kelvin’s Bussard collectors more….

437. Chris Pike - November 30, 2008

434, not entirely true. Read “Making of Star Trek”, much of which came from the original writers’ bible by GR, and large parts of the book were direct GR’s quotes too (made me smile how he insisted his quotes be printed in CAPS!). Much of that then became a basis for the Trek science in TNG. Then reading some of the Intel site Treknology sections relate to “Making of” as much as anything that came after. It was reading it in the 70’s that made me really admire the though that had gone into Trek back story of he original series, much of which was not made apparent on screen til later series. Highly recommended reaading for any fan!

438. Databrain - November 30, 2008

‘According to some of you out there, Star Trek must not be allowed to evolve.’
More semantical manipulation to make this new thing seem more evolved than the previous thing. It’s the other way around actually.

‘That leads to extinction.’
What leads to extinction is not appreciating your niche and then alienating it in favour of conformity. Conformity kills individuality which in turn destroys survival traits.

‘Sorry, gotta go with Darwin on this one.’

Darwin would laugh at you for saying this and tell you that his theory of evolution is merely an anthropological blue print for the past. Current evolution depends on a more ouspenskien approach of using our conscious minds to push forth progress. As oppose to depending on the unconscious variables of our surroundings to randomly work their wonders.

439. Databrain - November 30, 2008

431 said:

‘He needs to get laid. It will relax him. It will bring him back into the fold.’

I gaurantee you I get it more than you do. But feel free to state more ad hominems about an individuals personal life that has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

440. Paulaner - November 30, 2008

#430 “The Borg were space zombies, pure and simple. Zombies always work as a horrific villain group.”

My opinion, too. And guys, let’s admit it: what a lame, cheap and boring concept :)

441. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - November 30, 2008

424 Weerd1 — I agree nice find. The side view is indeed revealing….

427 Admiral Powers — Just refresh the page when you get the Forbidden message, the image should come up. Alternatively, copy and paste the link text into a new window.

442. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - November 30, 2008

440 Paulaner — No, the concept of a hive mind (like ants, bees, etc.) is far more subtle and interesting than the nonsensical “undead” concept of zombies. Zombies are boring (except in Half-Life, and that’s only because they’re not really zombies but people taken over by aliens).

443. Paulaner - November 30, 2008

#434 “A whole lot of stuff in the technical manuals (especially the TNG one) not only doesn’t make any sense, but is itself a re-imagining of the original concepts. Example: the “navigational deflector”. In TOS it looked like a radar dish, and was obviously…some kind of sensor-dish”

Amen to that. Technical manuals and all that kind of merchandising are money-making devices. I really don’t understand the need to have technical explanations to *fictional* ships! That things don’t exist. It’s *fantasy*. Bussard collectors? Nadion particles?? Come on, TOS was not about technical details. If we are about to have TOS back, please, get rid of the geeks’ stuff.

444. Paulaner - November 30, 2008

#442 “No, the concept of a hive mind (like ants, bees, etc.) is far more subtle and interesting than the nonsensical “undead” concept of zombies.”

I say “cheap” because the concept of hive minds has been overused in a lot of classic science-fiction works. Lazy writing, but this is my personal opinion. The spark for the Borgs was the Queen. Her lines in FC were deep and interesting, but I felt she was just dropped in to add a little salt to a rotting concept.

445. Dom - November 30, 2008

431. David (Flaming Wings Forever) said: ‘He needs to get laid. It will relax him. It will bring him back into the fold.’

Underage sex is illegal! ;)

Databrain’s a troll, anyway. In his myriad posts, all he’s bleated on about is his pathetic obsession with minutiae and tub-thumping about pseudoscience and dodgy continuity. One of my biggest objections about TNG technobabble is that it’s fake science and people like Databrain are small and twisted enough to believe in it.

I guess the TNG Trek fan/follower of a certain faux-religious cult that works off pseudo-science while taking people’s money comparison is still relevant as ever!

Quite honestly, I think a number of people like Databrain have no interest in Star Trek at all. What they’re doing is coming here and having fun winding up actual Star Trek fans.

if Databrain truly believes all these things he’s bleating on about, clearly his positronic net is fried and he needs to be locked away in a padded room!

446. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - November 30, 2008

444 Paulaner — Of course, you are entitled to your opinion. Personally, I think the Borg were among the most creative idea expounded upon in ST:TNG episodes. However, I believe the writers screwed up by introducing the Borg Queen in FC — even though I like Alice Krige’s performance and I enjoy FC overall — because the concept of the Borg was weakened once the writers gave personality to what should have remained a faceless, decentralized, inhuman collection of drones with only collective intelligence to guide them.

On another, off topic, I think you all should stop bashing Databrain here and take it to the Feedback thread, ’cause frankly your objections to his posts are no better than the “trolling” you claim he’s doing.

For the record, I don’t particularly agree with him, but it’s not our place to judge, IMO.

447. BK613 - November 30, 2008

422 423
Getting paid for making art does not in and of itself invalidate the quality of the art. A great deal of the art in this world that is considered “great” exists because some patron paid an artist for the art. For example, there would not have been any Ceiling of the Sistine Chapel without the Pope paying Michelangelo for the work.

While I am not in the camp that wants to canonize GR to sainthood, reducing his motivations to one simplistic word -greed- does the man a disservice.

446 et al
The Borg were originally a force of nature, like wildfire. They were weakened the moment they went from being the “ultimate consumers” to species assimilators.
IMO of course.

448. SChaos1701 - November 30, 2008

447

I didn’t say greed. What I said and meant was that Gene’s primary motivation for creating Star Trek and the other stuff he did was to get his scripts on TV and make money. You have to pay bills, buy good, support yourself, ect and there’s nothing wrong with anything I said because we all do our jobs to do just that and writing was his job.

I’m just tired of these people who claim this “vision of the future.” Star Trek was, simply, a TV show that grew a following a allowed a franchise to be built around it and has made a lot of people very rich. That, I can respect because Gene was able to use his talents to create something that set himself up for life. He lived the dream just like I would be if I could use my talent of drumming to become famous and make a living off of it. All in all though, I will not genuflect to St. Roddenberry under any circumstances.

449. Chris Basken - November 30, 2008

440: “My opinion, too. And guys, let’s admit it: what a lame, cheap and boring concept :)”

I didn’t find the Borg boring until they humanized them. Reducing everything “bad” to merely “misunderstood” takes all the power out of it. It may be the way to world peace in reality, but it ruins drama.

450. Weerd1 - November 30, 2008

The Borg were like any villain- the more you knew about them, the less scary they became. When I was younger, the biggest baddie in the world was Darth Vader- then we got to see his origin. Hannibal Lector was scary- and then Thomas Harris wrote the book “Hannibal.” The Borg were best when they showed up rarely, and you knew nothing but “here they come.”

That being said, I did enjoy the Borg Queen, and thought it was interesting the collective could manifest itself as a single entity, and would choose that particular form when it did. What bugs me is how the writing staff on Voyager didn’t seem to get what the Queen was, and decided to have her looking at view screens to monitor drones. They implied disparity where there was none…

451. Marian Ciobanu - November 30, 2008

- This crew is a real trek crew…cool news..

452. jkimballcurrier@hotmail.com - November 30, 2008

Art and commerce have always gone hand in hand.

453. BK613 - November 30, 2008

448
I know it seems hard to understand just how radical and groundbreaking ST was when it premiered in 1966. Let me use “Court Marshal” as an example.

Here we have Kirk accused of murdering his records officer and standing the court because of it. His superior officer in the episode is Commodore Stone, a black man. Serving as members of the court are our first Russian (Krasnovsky) and Indian (Chandra) Starship captains. And just to up the ante, the prosecutor is a woman.

All of this seems passe now but in 1966 this was unheard of. And intelligent and compassionate people looked at those kind of examples and said, “That’s how it should be.” Hence the “vision of the future.”

As GR said in Star Trek Lives! way back the early 70s:

“You can suck them in with an adventure/entertainment show and the first thing you know, you’re pointing out the stupidity of intolerance. They may be very intolerant but they suddenly find their hero coming out against intolerance. And if you do it correctly, he’s not doing it in a preaching way, and the first thing you know, you’re changing their minds.”

Personally, I think he was more qualified to speak about his motives than you are.

454. Marian Ciobanu - November 30, 2008

-About BRINGING STAR WARS elements in STAR TREK….If this elements are introduced with a good taste , then , i think this should be a great think…

455. Alex Rosenzweig - November 30, 2008

#433 – “According to some of you out there, Star Trek must not be allowed to evolve.”

Perhaps to some, but I think the vast majority are perfectly fine with allowing Trek to evolve.

What there’s wide disagreement about is the form that evolution should take.

456. Marian Ciobanu - November 30, 2008

thing…sorry……

457. Jordan - November 30, 2008

#455: Roger Ebert said it best in his review of “Nemesis.”

“I think it is time for ‘Star Trek’ to make a mighty leap forward another 1,000 years into the future, to a time when starships do not look like rides in a 1970s amusement arcade, when aliens do not look like humans with funny foreheads, and when wonder, astonishment and literacy are permitted back into the series. Star Trek was kind of terrific once, but now it is a copy of a copy of a copy.”

Hard to hear, but that’s exactly what Trek became in a post Voyager, post Enterprise, post Nemesis world.

458. Xai - November 30, 2008

438. Databrain – November 30, 2008
So, after reading this post I must ask a question.

How did you react to changes in TOS when TMP came along? Or ST:II?

459. Iowagirl - November 30, 2008

#453
Well said.

460. Xai - November 30, 2008

457. Jordan – November 30, 2008
. “Star Trek was kind of terrific once, but now it is a copy of a copy of a copy.”

-This is still an opinion, not fact.

“Hard to hear, but that’s exactly what Trek became in a post Voyager, post Enterprise, post Nemesis world.”

– Huh? Sorry Jordan, but there is very little Trek, post-Nemesis, post-Voyager, post- Enterprise and this Trek movie is still an unknown.

461. McCoy's Gall Bladder - November 30, 2008

I’d like to see the Reeves-Stevens team take over all writing for Trek.

462. Canon Father - November 30, 2008

The evolution of Trek is out of our hands. We must simply wait and see what happens.

I wish they had recast Kirk as a woman, and Dr. McCoy as a big, boneless, squid-like alien that floats around on a platform and is doused with water every few seconds to keep him moist.

Then when Spock pon’fars, Kirk could help him out a lot more, and McCoy could be the meal afterwards.

463. Chris Basken - November 30, 2008

450: “That being said, I did enjoy the Borg Queen, and thought it was interesting the collective could manifest itself as a single entity, and would choose that particular form when it did. What bugs me is how the writing staff on Voyager didn’t seem to get what the Queen was, and decided to have her looking at view screens to monitor drones. They implied disparity where there was none…”

I always saw the Borg Queen simply as UI. She’s not an individual, she’s a device created by the collective to facilitate communication with those species (such as Humans) who have difficulty dealing with a hive-mind. Fine, they want a single “individual” to talk to? We’ll make one.

457: “Hard to hear, but that’s exactly what Trek became in a post Voyager, post Enterprise, post Nemesis world.”

That would probably be post-TNG…

464. Charlie Jade 2070 - November 30, 2008

- This ideea with U.S.S. KELVIN seems great even for another tv series…

465. Dom - November 30, 2008

453. BK613:

‘I know it seems hard to understand just how radical and groundbreaking ST was when it premiered in 1966. Let me use “Court Marshal” as an example.

Here we have Kirk accused of murdering his records officer and standing the court because of it. His superior officer in the episode is Commodore Stone, a black man. Serving as members of the court are our first Russian (Krasnovsky) and Indian (Chandra) Starship captains. And just to up the ante, the prosecutor is a woman.

All of this seems passe now but in 1966 this was unheard of. And intelligent and compassionate people looked at those kind of examples and said, “That’s how it should be.” Hence the “vision of the future.”’

***Oh come on! With all due respect, Gene Roddenberry did all that out of devilment to stir up controversy! Controversy equals headlines equals free publicity equals getting more viewers equals making money to put food on your family’s table. There was precious little altruistic about it! ***

453. BK613:

‘As GR said in Star Trek Lives! way back the early 70s :“You can suck them in with an adventure/entertainment show and the first thing you know, you’re pointing out the stupidity of intolerance. They may be very intolerant but they suddenly find their hero coming out against intolerance. And if you do it correctly, he’s not doing it in a preaching way, and the first thing you know, you’re changing their minds.”’

***That’s just Roddenberry believing his own publicity in later life. By this point he’d started to develop his crazy utopian ideals which led to the ‘Roddenberry Box’ and was spinning the usual line he repeated over and over in interviews. He was a TV producer who had an idea that led to a good TV show. He was neither a visionary nor a futurist!***

453. BK613:

“Personally, I think he was more qualified to speak about his motives than you are.”

***Personally, I think remark that makes you sound like a supercilious buttmonkey, but as a mere mortal visiting trekmovie, I guess I’m not qualified to make a judgement!***

466. BK613 - November 30, 2008

465
Troll much?

467. SChaos1701 - November 30, 2008

Oh so he’s a troll because he disagrees with you. He brings up some really good points.

468. Dom - November 30, 2008

466. BK613

No. You? ;)

That last remark of mine might have been a bit harsher than I intended it. Sorry. Then again your last remark seemed more supercilious than it might have been intended!. Guess I have an inbuilt distaste for the more OTT claims about our old mate Rodders! :)

469. Xai - November 30, 2008

Dom is a long time poster, and hardly a troll. The trolls meander off after they get tired of people not feeding them.

470. rationaloptamism. - November 30, 2008

465

you may be a troll,

but you crack me up 465

471. Spock Jenkins - November 30, 2008

Databrain.

More like Spock’s Brain…

Remember it’s a UNITED FEDERATION OF PLANETS.

Bring on the aliens!!

472. Databrain - November 30, 2008

458 said:

‘Databrain – November 30, 2008
So, after reading this post I must ask a question.

How did you react to changes in TOS when TMP came along? Or ST:II?’

I wasn’t alive yet when either of these films came out. But most of the changes were superficial and did not involve blatant canon violations which were excused with alternate time-line lazy plot.

473. BK613 - November 30, 2008

467
No not because he disagreed. You and I were having a discussion about our difference of opinion on GR’s motives. Did I call you a troll?

His comments on the other hand, fit the pattern of a typical troll’s: They appear designed to bait a reaction and draw in a poster into a pointless argument. And in trollish fashion, DOM fails to offer anything to back up the claims.

I, on the other hand, offered an example from the show itself as to why it would have been considered “visionary” to some people, and a quote, not from later in life, but within a few years of TOS’s cancellation (circa 1972), where GR speaks of some of the motivation that went into TOS.

I do regret not being more thorough in my closing remark at 453. Fulfilling one’s basic needs is an important motivator in life but it is not the only motivator. Based on all that I have read about GR created TOS because he wanted to say some things the human condition that he couldn’t say on 1960s television in a contemporary TV format. He could have just made another western or cop show if it was just about making a living.

I also think, based on your comments at 448 about you drumming, that you are projecting what your motivations would be in a similar situation. I freely admit that I could be wrong in this but that is how it seems superficially to me.

469
As someone that spent a lot of time in alt.startrek back in the 1990s , I can tell you that longevity is not an immunity to trollish behavior.

(non-sequitor: I wonder if Laura Godwin is still there trying to convince everyone that TOS supported her slash fiction take on Kirk and Spock?)

468
No I think you said EXACTLY what you intended to say.

474. Databrain - November 30, 2008

‘I didn’t say greed. What I said and meant was that Gene’s primary motivation for creating Star Trek and the other stuff he did was to get his scripts on TV and make money. ‘

If this was his primary, or only concern, he would have made another generic television show, another western, or another cops and robbers show that would have garnered much more viewership than star trek did at that time. He obviously had an idea which was not trumped at any point by money considerations, even though money was still a consideration. Just not the primary one.

475. Xai - November 30, 2008

#473 BK613

True, longevity does not mean someone is not a troll. But I’ve read Dom’s posts. I see a poster that challenges others opinions at times, but not to the extremes you insist in my opinion.

476. Xai - November 30, 2008

472. Databrain – November 30, 2008
458 said:

‘Databrain – November 30, 2008

How did you react to changes in TOS when TMP came along? Or ST:II?’

“I wasn’t alive yet when either of these films came out. But most of the changes were superficial and did not involve blatant canon violations which were excused with alternate time-line lazy plot.”

You didn’t have to be alive yet to have an opinion.
Let me prompt you. For example, TMP saw a massively refitted Enterprise. This was done in reality to dress her up, make her more movie-worthy. But it wasn’t needed in the Trek universe. It was added because they could.
An alien, not yet seen in the TOS timeframe, is added because they could. He/she may be an important part of the story ( we don’t yet know.) I see no difference in the reasons why.
I’ll try this again, since you seem to ignore it in past posts. You imply you know more about this film than the average-Joe. You mentioned “alternate time-line lazy plot.”
Tell us of this plot.. why is it lazy?

477. Databrain - November 30, 2008

476 said:
‘Let me prompt you. For example, TMP saw a massively refitted Enterprise.’

None of the canon gripes have to do with visual/superficial elements, but with story elements. Once Genes canon was established, it needed to be respected, because that was the vision he was promoting. It has always been generally understood by most fans that if you did not like Genes vision, then you might flock to something else, like, say Mission Impossible?

‘Tell us of this plot.. why is it lazy?’

Because of the obvious fact of not finding a space to work within established canon. If they wanted to do a stand-alone trek story, they should have done one that does not alter a proper as vast as the original series crew instead of exploiting what has already been done. They could have added to canon by doing a story in a different time-line that has nothing to do with TOS crew than to have exploited said characters by retro-fitting this time-line with a bunch of trendy action-sci fi elements.

478. BK613 - November 30, 2008

475
Sometimes in my attempts at brevity, I am not always clear. On Usenet it was quite common for long-time, otherwise legitimate posters to sometimes engage in trollish behavior. That is what it appears to be from this POV.

479. Xai - November 30, 2008

477. Databrain – November 30, 2008

“None of the canon gripes have to do with visual/superficial elements, but with story elements.”

Be consistent.

You griped about adding an Alien to the bridge of a different starship.

480. Databrain - November 30, 2008

‘Be consistent.

You griped about adding an Alien to the bridge of a different starship.’

That IS a story element. Because it involves story specific canon regarding species that have never even been hinted at in the time-line. Similarly a view-screen that is also a window would be a canon gripe that is not limited to a visual element, because it has to do with a technology that was used during the specific time-line period. Both of which is why I think they should have moved this to a future time-line. But that would be too challenging for the writers.

481. Xai - November 30, 2008

478. BK613 – November 30, 2008

we disagree then… no problem in that

482. BK613 - November 30, 2008

477
You know, GR created ST so that he could say some things about the world he lived in . It wasn’t about the timeline or canon. It was about using science fiction to comment on today but setting it so far forward in time that it didn’t seem like the comments were about today. If the new movie has an idea that’s relevant about today and the movie delivers that idea by illustrating the idea via the characters’ actions, emotions and consequences, then it has lived up to GR’s original creation.

Thing is, we won’t know until May…

483. Xai - November 30, 2008

#480 Databrain

So it seems to me that you still have problems with this story that you have yet to see, but want to complain about and insult the writers every chance you can. A believable critique generally does not insult the subject.

By your definition, we cannot have toilets aboard a starship because they weren’t there to begin with, or violate Gene’s vision because they were never in the TOS timeline.

Again, more information (such as waiting for the premiere) might make some of your argument more accessible.

484. Databrain - November 30, 2008

‘By your definition, we cannot have toilets aboard a starship because they weren’t there to begin with, or violate Gene’s vision because they were never in the TOS timeline.’

^^^ More semantics that have nothing to do with the subject.

485. Databrain - November 30, 2008

‘You know, GR created ST so that he could say some things about the world he lived in . It wasn’t about the timeline or canon.’

I am the number one proponent of Genes vision. And part of his vision had to do with Canon.

‘If the new movie has an idea that’s relevant about today and the movie delivers that idea by illustrating the idea via the characters’ actions, emotions and consequences, then it has lived up to GR’s original creation.’

The writers keep saying there will be canon resolution. If they bluntly said they had blatantly violated canon and Genes vision, then I would not be contesting what all these hints seem to be pointing to. Which is that they have apparently turned something special into something trendy and generic.

486. cellojammer - November 30, 2008

485.

“I am the number one proponent of Genes vision. And part of his vision had to do with Canon”

____________

What arrogance and self-importance! Like the rest of us, you are merely an individual fan with his own take on somebody else’s creation. It’s not our job to dictate what the new creative team does, nor defend the somewhat questionable integrity of the past.

For some reason, the line between the entertainers and the entertained has become blurred in the eyes of some Trek fans. Maybe it’s time for some of us to re-evaluate our roles in this whole thing.

We, as fans, watch this stuff then give it a thumbs up or thumbs down. And that’s pretty much it.

487. Xai - November 30, 2008

484. Databrain – November 30, 2008
‘By your definition, we cannot have toilets aboard a starship because they weren’t there to begin with, or violate Gene’s vision because they were never in the TOS timeline.’

^^^ More semantics that have nothing to do with the subject.”

_Or an analogy you conveniently don’t care to deal with?
And what of the insults?

“The writers keep saying there will be canon resolution. If they bluntly said they had blatantly violated canon and Genes vision, then I would not be contesting what all these hints seem to be pointing to. Which is that they have apparently turned something special into something trendy and generic.”

_You expect them to tell you their story before the premiere to satisfy your need to be right? And you still insist this is “trendy and generic” despite a lack of information.

488. SChaos1701 - November 30, 2008

When it comes to certain personalities and fan mentalities, it still looks like Databrain = Barbara Adams

489. Canon Father - November 30, 2008

WOW. It’s really too bad that just a few of you can dominate this topic and make it so tiresome.

The fact is, nobody can completely agree on what canon is. Canon is simply what each individual prefers to see in their Star Trek. Then they back it up with their own interpretation of this silly concept of “canon.” If somebody wants to see the TOS style Enterprise in the new movie, then they call the old E “canon.” If they can’t deal with the fact that somehow young Kirk can now shift a car, they call it a “canon violation.” As if some thing the real world has been sullied. As if Kirk now being able to drive a friggin’ car is going to somehow spoil their Star Trek universe.

Canon only exists in the real world, not a world of fiction. Fiction changes with the times to serve those times. Inflexible cannonites (a much better word than canonista) aren’t really arguing for the greater integrity of Star Trek, they’re simply wailing their disappointment to the world that things have changed.

Mostly what bothers me though is the fact that based on a minute of footage and a few stills, there are some people who are calling this movie crap. I’m not calling it a damned thing until I’ve seen it. But as a lifelong fan of Trek, I’m telling you that I don’t have a sense of entitlement or ownership about Star Trek, and I don’t give a damn about “canon” as long as we have the basic relationships, themes, and familiar designs that made Trek what it is.

I don’t care if characters now have different abilities or talents (driving) or if they’ve entering the story at a different time (Chekhov) or if there are any big fissures in Iowa’s landscape, or whether or not the E was built in space or on land. I just don’t care, it just doesn’t matter, and if it is really that important to you that there is strict adherence to your idea of canon, I don’t think you’re going to like this film one bit.

Shatner said it best in his SNL skit. You know the quote.

But I’m bored with this, and since I’m probably coming dangerously close to trolling (I’ll probably be accused by somebody) I choose to leave this “conversation.”

xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo

490. Dom - November 30, 2008

473. BK613

Okay. Let’s get our teeth into this. so to speak. I’ve been busy eating hobbits under my bridge and fighting off elves and I know if I don’t do this before dawn I’ll turn to stone!

First off, as far as I’m aware, the whole point of a debate is to trigger a reaction. If you think what I said is mean, then go to any debate anywhere in the country and listen to what they say. All things considered, I’ve been pretty polite! Then again, if I’m sharp, so sue me: I have little time for people who squeal like little piggies at the slightest barb! Some of the nicest people I’ve met on this site, who I regard as much as friends as you possibly can on semi-white computer screen, I’ve met by having far stronger disagreements than I’ve had with you. (By the way, you can call me Dom – I don’t go much on being called DOM, as that makes me seem more important in the scheme of things than I am!)

But I work in the TV/film business myself. There is only one motivation in what we do: survival. The messages of Star Trek weren”t created to change the world as we knew it: they were a byproduct of the numerous talented people involved in the original show’s production.

Anyone who wants to make a successful show challenges the establishment at least a little bit. Gene Roddenberry saw a hole in the market. The wonderful Rod Serling had presented science fiction and fantasy intelligently in an anthology format a few years earlier in The Twilight Zone and Gene Roddenberry put the intelligent sci-fi into a weekly adventure show format. And, as any of us sc-fi fans knows, an era’s speculative fiction is a far more accurate portrait of the time it is written than any contemporary fiction. It’s about how the people of an era see their future as an extrapolation the world around them.

You want to know why TNG and its successors make people’s eyes roll up into their heads and put a Star Wars DVD on instead? Because TNG and its successors were about their own universe, which Gene Roddenberry created, and not the real world in which he was just another onetime TV producer barely tolerated on the Paramount lot.

The screenplay for Star Trek: First Contact came up with a genuinely superb quote, doubtless written by Ron Moore, who clearly understood Roddenberry’s creation better than even Roddenberry did himself in later days: ‘Don’t try to be a great man … just be a man. Let history make its own judgments.’

Gene Roddenberry was a man. In many ways a good man, in many ways a poor example of a man, just like most human beings. He wasn’t special. He wasn’t sent by God. He wasn’t some product of evolved humanity favoured by barking ‘new atheists’ and the peculiar anti-religious-yet-religious-about-themselves ‘humanist’ groups he got tied up in in later life.

He was an ordinary guy, who’d seen some action in WWII, drifted into TV and made a TV show that, through the arguments between his beliefs and those of Dorothy Fontana, Gene Coon, Robert Justman and many others had led to something that caught lightning in a bottle.

When you worship Gene Roddenberry as an idol, you simultaneously insult everyone else who ever worked on Star Trek. Star Trek was a fun . . . and yes . . . generic gaudy, sexy, violent, humourous piece of television entertainment that inspired a lot of people.

But, BK613, my friend, you have to be practical about these things. Star Trek, like all TV was about money. TOS was about bread on the table (IDIC being created in order to sell tacky hippie medallions being a prime example!) TNG was about the Roddenberry estate regaining legal control over Star Trek, following his his ousting from the film series as a result of the catastrophic failure of feature film version.

Now, I have to get back under my bridge. I smell Hobbitses coming my way and I have skulls to cleave! ;)

491. BK613 - November 30, 2008

485
Okay, “number one proponent of Genes vision,” forget the movie for a second and give us a definition of this vision as you see it. Something straight-forward and bulleted please, with quotes from GR and/or other TOS production staff backing up your definition’s points (just so that we know that it is indeed GR’s vision and not yours grafted on top of it.)

I am curious if you can even articulate this vision you so ardently claim to defend.

492. Alex Rosenzweig - November 30, 2008

#484 – ” ‘By your definition, we cannot have toilets aboard a starship because they weren’t there to begin with, or violate Gene’s vision because they were never in the TOS timeline.’

^^^ More semantics that have nothing to do with the subject.”

Maybe, but maybe not. Let’s strip out the specifics. If you’re making the argument that something cannot be established in the TOS timeframe because it had not been previously seen, then the truest test of the argument is whether it holds irrelevant of whether you apply it to aliens or toilets. ;)

Obviously it’s pretty silly to assume that there could be no toilets aboard a starship in the TOS era simply because we didn’t see them. But, moving beyond that specific, could we not say that it’s also fairly silly to assume that simply because we didn’t see something at a particular time, it couldn’t possibly exist? The specifics might be different, but the logic really isn’t.

#489 – “The fact is, nobody can completely agree on what canon is.”

Really, that is not true. Over the years, for the purposes of Star Trek discussions, “canon”, as a term, has come to have a well-defined and well-agreed-upon meaning, specifically, that body of “facts” established on film in live-action productions from the property-owner. In short, what’s been put on film in the 5 TV series and 10 (soon to be 11) features is defined as “canon” for the purposes of discussions about Star Trek.

Many people have mis-used the term. One of the more egregious oxymorons is “personal canon”. There’s no such thing. People can choose what they wish to accept or not, of course, in their own personal views of the Trek world, whether it be including material like novels and comics, or excluding material like a particularly disliked series, but that doesn’t alter the fact that the agreed-upon definition is as I previously stated. Whether or not it’s clearly articulated, that agreement is the semantical underpinning of these sorts of discussions.

Canon, also, in Star Trek’s context, has represented that body of information with which licensees are expected to remain consistent, and which–apparently until now–producers agreed to stay largely consistent.

“Mostly what bothers me though is the fact that based on a minute of footage and a few stills, there are some people who are calling this movie crap. I’m not calling it a damned thing until I’ve seen it.”

With that, OTOH, I’ll agree completely. :)

“But as a lifelong fan of Trek, I’m telling you that I don’t have a sense of entitlement or ownership about Star Trek, and I don’t give a damn about “canon” as long as we have the basic relationships, themes, and familiar designs that made Trek what it is.

I don’t care if characters now have different abilities or talents (driving) or if they’ve entering the story at a different time (Chekhov) or if there are any big fissures in Iowa’s landscape, or whether or not the E was built in space or on land. I just don’t care, it just doesn’t matter, and if it is really that important to you that there is strict adherence to your idea of canon, I don’t think you’re going to like this film one bit.”

You may well be right about that last, and you’re welcome to your opinion regarding fictional consistency. But that does not make the people who have a different one any less entitled to theirs, and–in *my* opinion–their feelings about Star Trek are every bit as valid.

493. Dom - November 30, 2008

492. Alex Rosenzweig said: ‘But that does not make the people who have a different one any less entitled to theirs, and–in *my* opinion–their feelings about Star Trek are every bit as valid.’

Yes, but you’re so nice about it, while most of the whiny a**munchers aren’t! They just tub-thump and spout opinion as fact! :)

494. Tony Whitehead - November 30, 2008

490. Dom

Excellent post!

495. Alex Rosenzweig - November 30, 2008

#493 – “492. Alex Rosenzweig said: ‘But that does not make the people who have a different one any less entitled to theirs, and–in *my* opinion–their feelings about Star Trek are every bit as valid.’

Yes, but you’re so nice about it, while most of the whiny a**munchers aren’t! They just tub-thump and spout opinion as fact! :) ”

Well, thank you. :)

I’d like to think that a few years in the cyberspatial trenches has taught me a bit about discussing pleasantly and positively, and if it shows, I’m glad.

496. Shaun - November 30, 2008

# 485:

“I am the number one proponent of Genes vision. And part of his vision had to do with Canon.”

i do not mean to be disrespectful, but have you watched star trek? a few of us have already made reference to the fact that mr. roddenberry violated his own established continuity on occasion, when it suited whatever he was working on at the time. since he was guilty of violating star trek canon, what does that say about him?

497. Xai, - November 30, 2008

#492 Alex
Yes the “toilet” argument is mine and directed to Databrain. It seems you got my point for the most part. He/she has yet to accept or debate it.

498. Databrain - November 30, 2008

alex said:
‘Obviously it’s pretty silly to assume that there could be no toilets aboard a starship in the TOS era simply because we didn’t see them. But, moving beyond that specific, could we not say that it’s also fairly silly to assume that simply because we didn’t see something at a particular time, it couldn’t possibly exist?’
Again. Existence an d serving aboard a starship as a senior officer are two completely different things. The way the characters onboard the enterprise sometimes spoke to spock it was as if they truly felt they were dealing with someone of a species no one else in starfleet deals with on a day to day basis. Which gave the impression that most starships consisted of mostly humans, and very few had one or more aliens serving aboard. That coupled with the fact that, as stated earlier, it would not be a gripe of mine had they introduced an alien we’ve at least heard of, mainly because it IS serving aboard a starship vessel in a high capacity, which means implies its member species is closely linked to the federation.

499. BK613 - November 30, 2008

First off, as far as I’m aware, the whole point of a debate is to trigger a reaction.
—————————————————-
Is that what we were doing? Debating? In debates there are winners and losers and very little exchange of ideas. I really prefer discussions.
(as for the rest, flame away Dom lol)
—————————————————-

But I work in the TV/film business myself. There is only one motivation in what we do: survival. The messages of Star Trek weren”t created to change the world as we knew it: they were a byproduct of the numerous talented people involved in the original show’s production.

—————————————————
Generalizations are rarely always true. What is true for you, now, does not have to be true for GR 42 years ago. Different time, different person. And I never said that GR created ST to change the world, at least not beyond what any artist who creates art hopes for. That you will have an effect on someone, somewhere.
—————————————————

Anyone who wants to make a successful show challenges the establishment at least a little bit.

—————————————————
I’m not sure that was true when ST debuted in 1966. Not in the days of The Andy Griffith Show, The Dick van Dyke Show, and Bonanza.
—————————————————-

Gene Roddenberry saw a hole in the market. The wonderful Rod Serling had presented science fiction and fantasy intelligently in an anthology format a few years earlier in The Twilight Zone and Gene Roddenberry put the intelligent sci-fi into a weekly adventure show format. And, as any of us sc-fi fans knows, an era’s speculative fiction is a far more accurate portrait of the time it is written than any contemporary fiction. It’s about how the people of an era see their future as an extrapolation the world around them.

—————————————————
Agree whole heartily with this. If you go back and read where I jump in on this you’ll find that it was because people were reducing GR’s motivations down to “making money” that I jumped in. I didn’t and still don’t think that is an accurate portrayal of the man’s motivations.
—————————————————

You want to know why TNG and its successors make people’s eyes roll up into their heads and put a Star Wars DVD on instead? Because TNG and its successors were about their own universe, which Gene Roddenberry created, and not the real world in which he was just another onetime TV producer barely tolerated on the Paramount lot.

————————————————–
For me it’s because, well, the heroes aren’t actually very heroic.
————————————————–

The screenplay for Star Trek: First Contact came up with a genuinely superb quote, doubtless written by Ron Moore, who clearly understood Roddenberry’s creation better than even Roddenberry did himself in later days: ‘Don’t try to be a great man … just be a man. Let history make its own judgments.’
————————————————–
Yes I took that line in a similar fashion, that you shouldn’t look too closely at your idols, lest they have warts.
————————————————–

Gene Roddenberry was a man. In many ways a good man, in many ways a poor example of a man, just like most human beings. He wasn’t special. He wasn’t sent by God. He wasn’t some product of evolved humanity favoured by barking ‘new atheists’ and the peculiar anti-religious-yet-religious-about-themselves ‘humanist’ groups he got tied up in in later life.

—————————————————
“While I am not in the camp that wants to canonize GR to sainthood, reducing his motivations to one simplistic word -greed- does the man a disservice.” me at 447
—————————————————

He was an ordinary guy, who’d seen some action in WWII, drifted into TV and made a TV show that, through the arguments between his beliefs and those of Dorothy Fontana, Gene Coon, Robert Justman and many others had led to something that caught lightning in a bottle.

When you worship Gene Roddenberry as an idol, you simultaneously insult everyone else who ever worked on Star Trek. Star Trek was a fun . . . and yes . . . generic gaudy, sexy, violent, humourous piece of television entertainment that inspired a lot of people.

—————————————————
Nor am I in the camp determined to minimize his contribution.
—————————————————

But, BK613, my friend, you have to be practical about these things. Star Trek, like all TV was about money. TOS was about bread on the table (IDIC being created in order to sell tacky hippie medallions being a prime example!) TNG was about the Roddenberry estate regaining legal control over Star Trek, following his his ousting from the film series as a result of the catastrophic failure of feature film version.

—————————————————-
I guess a little supercilious tit-for-tat is to be expected at this point lol

500. Databrain - November 30, 2008

‘You want to know why TNG and its successors make people’s eyes roll up into their heads and put a Star Wars DVD on instead?’

This is a complete fabrication with no footing in ‘reality’. The next generation garnered more viewership than anything before or after, at least in terms of television ratings. And it did it staying true to concepts that must have evolved to appeal to a wider niche audience. That is, it was, perhaps, the main inheritor of trekdom which actually expanded its niche base without alienating the majority of its original fans.

501. Databrain - November 30, 2008

Bear in mind I say ‘its’ niche base’. Which means it EXPANDED its audience within its trek sensibilities without having to step outside of them in order to ‘appeal to a wider base’. Which is complete rubbish. Everything might as well be fashioned after one prototypical television show (The simpsons, for example) if all you want to do is appeal to the most common denominator. You can’t have it both ways. Either serve and expand your niche or alienate them and end it all. there is no two ways around this problem.

502. Alex Rosenzweig - November 30, 2008

#498 – “Again. Existence an d serving aboard a starship as a senior officer are two completely different things.”

Not really. Again, it’s the same argument. just because we hadn’t already heard of this species, does it necessarily follow that such a race couldn’t be involved enough in the Federation to have members in StarFleet? I’m not seeing it as a contradiction unless something, somewhere, established that this race never provided individuals to StarFleet.

“The way the characters onboard the enterprise sometimes spoke to spock it was as if they truly felt they were dealing with someone of a species no one else in starfleet deals with on a day to day basis.”

Okay, so there’s the basis–maybe–of an argument that there were relatively few Vulcans serving on multi-race starships, and most tended to serve on majority-Vulcan ships like the Intrepid. Even that would be speculative, though, not based on established continuity.

“Which gave the impression that most starships consisted of mostly humans, and very few had one or more aliens serving aboard.”

Or, perhaps, that starships tended to have a majority of their crews of a single race. We know from TOS that the Enterprise was majority Human, and the Intrepid was all-Vulcan. Way back in the ’70s, Geoff Mandel had speculated that the Kongo was primarily Andorian-crewed, and the Excalibur (after her repair post-M5) was about half Edoan-crewed. Other sources have speculated something comparable for other ships. In fact, Diane Duane speculated in her “Enterprise Logs’ short story that a crew as racially-diverse as the Enterprise in ST:TMP was something relatively new at the time, and an experiment that CAPT Decker was trying out.

“That coupled with the fact that, as stated earlier, it would not be a gripe of mine had they introduced an alien we’ve at least heard of, mainly because it IS serving aboard a starship vessel in a high capacity, which means implies its member species is closely linked to the federation.”

But, again, you’re expressing a view based on your perception and personal beliefs about what was happening at the time. Now, that’s perfectly fine, and you are by all means welcome to that opinion, but citing it as a continuity violation doesn’t really work so well, since there’s no prior information to contradict here.

So, if you characterize the concern as a preference on your part for seeing a previously-established species, instead of a brand new one, that’s cool. I can see where you’re coming from. But as a continuity violation, you’re not making the case, at least to me. (And I am major big on getting the continuity right, so if you’re not selling *me* on it, imagine how folks who don’t care so much about continuity are perceiving it. ;) Fair ’nuff?)

503. sean - November 30, 2008

#498

“Again. Existence an d serving aboard a starship as a senior officer are two completely different things.”

Yes they are, but they also aren’t mutually exclusive. We simply didn’t see enough starship crews in TOS to make a reliable claim that this new alien is out of order.

“The way the characters onboard the enterprise sometimes spoke to spock it was as if they truly felt they were dealing with someone of a species no one else in starfleet deals with on a day to day basis. Which gave the impression that most starships consisted of mostly humans, and very few had one or more aliens serving aboard”

Says who? What dialog are you referring to? Just because they found VULCAN behavior unusual at times does not mean they had no experience with any other alien officers. And again, I have to emphasize the fact that the Enterprise was not the only Federation starship. We rarely saw other ship crews for more than a few minutes in a dozen or so episodes. And those views were almost always limited to one part of another ship.

” That coupled with the fact that, as stated earlier, it would not be a gripe of mine had they introduced an alien we’ve at least heard of, mainly because it IS serving aboard a starship vessel in a high capacity, which means implies its member species is closely linked to the federation.”

The member worlds of the Federation were never specifically named or listed in Star Trek. Therefore, introducing a new character/species isn’t really out of bounds here. You really seem to be stretching the concept of ‘canon’.

504. Xai, - November 30, 2008

#498 Databrain

I suspect you would have not accepted TOS from week to week had you been alive during it’s first run. They introduced new ships and aliens almost weekly.

And what of the crew below decks that we never saw? They were important to the function of the ship. Or Starfleet command we never saw it in TOS.

And what of the insults to the writers you freely post?

505. Databrain - November 30, 2008

‘And what of the insults to the writers you freely post?’

See posts 500 and 501.

506. Dipling - November 30, 2008

Why isn’t there worldwide contest? :-(

507. Jordan - November 30, 2008

#460: What I meant to say (and did not write well enough) is that I personally felt Voyager, Enterprise and the last two films signaled a major decline in interest and originality in the franchise. So now we find ourselves in a post Voyager, post Enterprise, post Nemesis world where major reinvigoration of the franchise is needed if it is to flourish again. And remember, the “Star Trek has become a copy of a copy of a copy” quote wasn’t me, but Roger Ebert in his review of “Nemesis.” That quote demonstrates how non Trek fans viewed the franchise’s last few offerings. “Nemesis” doesn’t fare well on rottentomatoes.com. But I’m enough of a fan that I own Nemesis and can still greatly enjoy many parts of the film because I have such love and loyalty for that cast.

508. Jordan - November 30, 2008

And furthermore, I don’t want Voyager or Enterprise fans to feel offended by what I say. There are many things to respect and appreciate about both series. But they never resonated with me, for many reasons.

509. cellojammer - November 30, 2008

508. Jordan

No offense taken! Everybody reacts differently to each show. Here were my impressions:

I taped VOY during its original run and tried to watch it from start to finish. My interest waned after a dozen or so episodes and just can’t see myself watching all 7 seasons. The chemistry between the actors and the scripts just weren’t compelling to me.

However, after renting ENT in its entirety, I have to say it was much better the second time around. I watched it when it aired and wasn’t too impressed, but found much to like about it. Sure they stretched continuity a bit, but the characters and many of the stories were much better than I remembered. I liked it.

510. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - November 30, 2008

489 Canon Father –“Mostly what bothers me though is the fact that based on a minute of footage and a few stills, there are some people who are calling this movie crap. I’m not calling it a damned thing until I’ve seen it. But as a lifelong fan of Trek, I’m telling you that I don’t have a sense of entitlement or ownership about Star Trek, and I don’t give a damn about ‘canon’ as long as we have the basic relationships, themes, and familiar designs that made Trek what it is.”

I couldn’t have said it better myself. And believe me, I’ve tried.

511. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - November 30, 2008

509 cellojammer — Just my opinion, but VOY got a *lot* better from season 3 on, particularly once they dropped Kes and got 7 of 9. I think most ST series have growing pains anyway… I appreciate most of them most from around season 3 on (obviously not the case with TOS, and with ENT I started liking it more around the latter end of season 2).

512. cellojammer - December 1, 2008

511. 4 8 15 16 23 42 – November 30, 2008
509 cellojammer — Just my opinion, but VOY got a *lot* better from season 3 on, particularly once they dropped Kes and got 7 of 9.
___________

Right on. The tapes aren’t going anywhere so maybe I’ll have another go at them. Thanks for the recommendation! I’m sure I’ll find a lot to like once I dig in.

513. unnamed veteran ST designer - December 1, 2008

306 (sir Rick):

E-mail me if you’d like to collaborate on said fiddling.

That aside, I happen to be OK with JJ’s approach. The Art Nouveau embellishments are a rational-enough osmotic expression of mutual interspecies tech exposure.

Someone derisively pointed out her obvious “awareness” of mid-century American automobile stylings. Well, why not. After all, the Jeffries design was drawn from flying saucers and mailing tubes.

514. Dom - December 1, 2008

testing

515. Dom - December 1, 2008

BK613 (499) Trying to stay polite here. At no time have I ‘trolled’ of ‘flamed’ anything you’ve posted. I think you need to develop a thicker skin and, perhaps, a sense of humour! I never post anything that isn’t at least a little tongue in cheek. You give the impression you expect us all to be humourless robots obsessed with Trek here, which, frankly, I’m not.

Star Trek isn’t my favourite TV show. But it is one I like and as a youth was one I absolutely adored. I come here to have a fun chat, the equivalent of having a chinwag over beers at the pub, not a meeting the Enterprise-D’s Ready Room.

And where did I say Rodders was ‘greedy’? I said he was an ordinary guy who did his job and, along with his collaborators, made a good TV show: a pro, in other words.

And every TV show always pushed things a little, even the ‘safe’ ones you mention. As the great Howard Hawks knew, when you couldn’t show bedroom gymnastics, you’d use verbal gymnastics! The regulations we have in the business come from shows overstepping the mark, even if only slightly.

The difference is that Star Trek, as a piece of pulpy, low-brow sci-fi entertainment full of colour, sex, violence and wit elevated pulp sci-fi adventure to another level. It was great pulp sci-fi, but it was still pulp. Because it was pulp sci-fi it frequently got away with murder! And I love that aspect of it. In ‘What Are Little Girls Made Of?’ we can simultaneously get a neat little discussion of what constitutes human existence and can lust over the nice little nothing Android Andrea’s almost not wearing. And there’s a cool Frankenstein android, to boot! ;)

Don’t kid yourself, William Ware Theiss’s costumes and the various hot women (notably future ‘adult’ model Angelique Pettyjohn, who was photographed with her top off wearing her Shanha costume) were as big a draw as any philosophising in the show.

Great days! Fun TV!

Databrain (500)

Read my post again, mate! I said ‘make': present tense. In the abysmal era of late-80s, early-90s TV, Star Trek: TNG was a beacon of quality TV, even if it never really had the nads to change anything much. At the time, the stare-eyed over-serious types from the late-80s worshipped TNG with its pastel colours and ‘serious’ discussions and looked down on TOS with its pulp sci-fi tales, sexy costumes and weekly fistfights. They were embarrassed by one of the funkiest, coolest shows ever to grace our screens!

But times change. There’s much better TV out there now. TNG is a bit of a joke to many people now. Its politics have been shown up as a joke, it’s having a flaky psychotherapist with a low-cut top sat on the bridge next to a military officer held in ridicule and the damn straight-faced seriousness of the whole shebang is a turn-off. TV changed in the 90s and 2000s and the sex and violence returned, along with Bill Shatner becoming an icon!

Once more we’ve got pulpy, sexy violent, witty shows that elevated their lowbrow genres to an art form, be they Buffy/Angel, Alias, The X-Files, 24 or Lost.

Don’t oversell what Star Trek is at its best: it’s a trashy, sexy, pulpy, adventure series, laden with wit and cool, clever concepts. The new film is clearly embracing the pulp, ‘gee-whiz’ aspects of TOS that made is such a fun, exciting series, which is why I’m such a happy chappie right now! ;)

516. Xai - December 1, 2008

505. Databrain – November 30, 2008
‘And what of the insults to the writers you freely post?’

“See posts 500 and 501.”

They don’t justify anything. Be civil.

517. Databrain - December 1, 2008

I AM being civil. Just because I am not saying what you think I should doesn’t mean the opposite. Period.

518. Andros - December 1, 2008

I love all this talk about how the alien doesn’t fit it. Yes it does and good to finally see an alien in Star Trek being a part of Starfleet that isn’t a forehead job. Weird aliens seem to be a staple of the Star Trek books, but as soon as one appears in live action people are up in arms.

And its called a “budget”, which this movie has a large one, so they can actually make creative looking aliens and not just wrinkled noses.

519. JL - December 1, 2008

MAN! That alien sure beats the hell outta Balok’s puppet…

Obviously we need to see it moving and whatnot but so far it looks really cool!

520. Geoffers - December 1, 2008

Oh lordy, Databrain back in the thread… time to bail out.. another thread spoilt by his inane ramblin… cheers.

521. sean - December 1, 2008

#518

YES! I think we’d all grown tired of the random-actor-with-a-paper-plate-stapled-to-his-forehead style of alien. I say bring on the exotic! We need more Horta, Tholians, Medusans, Edosians, etc.

522. Dom - December 1, 2008

521. sean: ‘random-actor-with-a-paper-plate-stapled-to-his-forehead’

ROTFLMAO! Perfect description! :)

523. Xai - December 1, 2008

517. Databrain – December 1, 2008
“I AM being civil. Just because I am not saying what you think I should doesn’t mean the opposite. Period.”

I’ve read posts of yours that imply the writers are lazy and not up to the challenge and are just creating generic work. I’d be insulted by that, especially since there is no evidence of it.
That’s not beng civil.

I’ve had enough of you for awhile.

524. Geoffers - December 1, 2008

523… HERE HERE… !! Nicely said..

525. BK613 - December 1, 2008

515
Trying to stay polite here.
———————————————————-
Your first response that I can find — to anything I’ve posted here at Trekmovie — ended in what comment? And YOU are trying to be polite? Now THAT is funny.
———————————————————-

At no time have I ‘trolled’ of ‘flamed’ anything you’ve posted. I think you need to develop a thicker skin and, perhaps, a sense of humour! I never post anything that isn’t at least a little tongue in cheek.
———————————————————-
Don’t you mean monkey tongue in cheeks?
As I said to Xal at 473 and 478, the pattern of your initial response reminded me of behavior that was common to Usenet back in the day.
From my POV, it came out of left field, used mildly inflammatory comments that reminded me of the Ron Moore/GR pointless debate (that really is a matter of opinion at best, revisionism at worst) and ended in a extremely mild flame.
I am beginning to realize that perhaps that wasn’t your intent, as Xal indicated.
———————————————————-
You give the impression you expect us all to be humourless robots obsessed with Trek here, which, frankly, I’m not.
———————————————————-
Humorless, no. Pedantic from time to time, yes.
———————————————————-

Star Trek isn’t my favourite TV show. But it is one I like and as a youth was one I absolutely adored. I come here to have a fun chat, the equivalent of having a chinwag over beers at the pub, not a meeting the Enterprise-D’s Ready Room.
———————————————————-
Fairness would suggest that not everyone is here for that reason.
———————————————————-

And where did I say Rodders was ‘greedy’? I said he was an ordinary guy who did his job and, along with his collaborators, made a good TV show: a pro, in other words.
———————————————————-
You implied that I worshiped GR: I was pointing out that I had already said that I didn’t. And I don’t.

I do think though, upon reflection, that at least some of the miscommunication came from the format of this site itself. Without threads it is next to impossible to fully follow a conversation, and without the ability to PM, amicable resolutions can be harder to come by.

526. BK613 - December 1, 2008

By Xal I mean Xai obviously.

527. Dom - December 1, 2008

525. BK613 said: ‘Don’t you mean monkey tongue in cheeks?’

BK613.

I’m going to be be brief as brief as I can. I did write a full reply to your unfounded bitchy insults, but I’ve decided not to post it because I enjoy posting here and would probably get the pair of us banned in a flame war had I let rip with the utter fury your remarks invoked in me. But I guess that’s what you wanted.

It has been made ***perfectly clear*** by both yours truly and other posters that I’m not making some personal attack on you, that I’m not trolling you or flaming you. You have, by all accounts, deliberately taken offence at things I’ve said to launch into a campaign of belittlement against me. I’m certainly not prepared to lower myself to enter into a full-blown p***ing contest with you! I have had plenty of discussions, even full-blown rows with people here and have never been been accused of trolling or flaming by anyone before! Being sarky, yes. Pushing it a little, yes!

After your countless abusive remarks, aimed at me personally, rather than anything I’ve posted about Star Trek, I think it’s better you keep away from me.

Evidently from your descriptions of this Usenet thing (I’ve never heard of it before, FYI!) you’ve spent too much time on forums where people bark like rabid dogs at each other. This site isn’t like that. The reason I come here is because of that. I’ve been to seething pits of hatred like Outpost Gallifrey and want no further part of them! Life’s too short to put up with the stream of abuse similar to that you subjected me to in your above posts.

The main cause of trouble on this site is that there are people who take Star Trek very seriously – like a formal discussion group or reading club – and other people who think it’s all good fun and want a laugh with people who have everyday concerns and fancy a chat about Star Trek with like-minded people – a social group.

The majority of us come here for the social thing. We don’t do invective and most of us have fun, which includes a degree of chucking rude remarks at each other as banter.

I’m sorry you’ve obviously come here with the expectation that people are going to ‘launch into’ you like they did on this Usenet thing! We don’t do that sort of thing here. The guy who runs this site and his staff are awesome and they keep things on a tight leash. Sometimes they are accused of being overly censorious, but generally I prefer it because I don’t have to worry about experiencing the sort of playground bullying you just subjected me to!

I wish you well and hope you have better experiences on this forum than you’ve clearly had elsewhere.

Dom

528. BK613 - December 1, 2008

527
You right. I should have left off at 478.

529. Spock Jenkins - December 1, 2008

All this bickering is getting tiresome now, and unfortunately casts Trekkies and Trekkers in a bad light….it’s also quite offputting for those of us Star Trek fans who want to come on here and have some fun discussions while we await in high anticipation of the new film.

GROW UP, one and ALL…..

530. Xai - December 1, 2008

Dom, BK,

Ok guys, May I suggest a cooling off period?

531. Harry Ballz - December 1, 2008

Time for everyone to take one lap through the NEUTRAL ZONE!

532. Dom - December 1, 2008

529, 530, 531 As I think is obvious by now, things were sorted out out a few hours back. I’m quite cooled off, thanks, somewhat bemused by the whole incident.

Frankly, the whole escalation thing scarily reminded me of an incident where I got beaten up years ago. I felt like I was back a my awful secondary school again!

Spock Jenkins, with all due respect, I’m perfectly grown up and don’t want to be caught up in bickering either.

This whole thread turning nasty like that has been quite upsetting.

533. BK613 - December 1, 2008

530
lol I was never anything but cool, except in the few moments immediately after Dom’s “supercilious buttmonkey” remark.;-)

Heck, I even complimented him on a post that he made yesterday when I read it:

http://trekmovie.com/2008/11/30/abrams-talks-characters-themes-and-more-in-new-uk-video-interview/#1288675

Escalation?, Not hardly, except maybe in the snarky comment department. But I feel that when one is called a “supercilious buttmonkey,” one is allowed a few retorts. ;-)

Anyway, in the interest of intergalactic peace, let me say this:
Dom, I do not consider you to be a troll.
End of story as far as I am concerned.

534. Dom - December 1, 2008

You don’t have the authority to draw any lines, pal. But fine, go back to your corner and we’ll call it a lifetime!

I never even said you were a ‘supercilious buttmonkey’! Check the wording of the post! I said your remarks made you sound like one. It was a mildly sarcastic, chiding remark after you patronised another poster!

Then you claimed I was a troll. SChaos1701 disagreed. Xai disagreed. rationaloptamism found the whole thing funny, as it was intended to be.

You then claimed my remarks ‘fit the pattern of a typical troll’s’ that my argument was ‘pointless.’ You then referred to my words as ‘trollish’ and that ‘I [fail] to offer anything to back up the claims.’

Troll troll troll.

You wouldn’t let it go, would you? Because then in your oh-so-pompous manner you began to trot out: ‘As someone that spent a lot of time in alt.startrek back in the 1990s , I can tell you that longevity is not an immunity to trollish behavior.’

Well I didn’t spent time on boards back then, because I didn’t have access to the internet. Who the hell are you as a newbie and non-moderator to swagger around here like you own the place saying who is and isn’t a troll!? Now that’s both supercilious and self-important.

Then you slapped away my gentle apology with: ‘No I think you said EXACTLY what you intended to say,’ even though plenty of people had made it clear I intended nothing of the kind and I’d been more than polite.

Then you let loose! First of all you threw my attempt to smooth things over in my face, then you made the ‘monkey tongues’ remark which is the most obnoxious, sh***y, arrogant remark I have read on this site and a good few others.

Then you pulled the ‘on reflection’ maybe you were mistaken remark, but couldn’t be bothered to delete the other highly offensive, blatantly inflammatory, dare I say it trollish remarks.

Then you think you can just walk away from it and say I’m not a ‘troll’ after all with a shrug of the shoulders. Classic bullying! Are you completely stupid as well as sick in the head? Do you think you can just turn up on a website, start appointing yourself ‘Trollfinder General’ and say these things to someone, then change your mind?

Because, BK613, not realising it yourself, you’ve become a troll. A nasty bitchy, playground bully who thinks he holds all the cards on someone else’s site.

What you’ve made me feel today is utter revulsion. Utter detestation. Right now, I think you are the meanest, brattiest, vicious little creep I’ve ever run into on a message board.

Now walk away, keep your mouth to yourself and stay the hell away from me.

535. Dom - December 1, 2008

And, yes Anthony, I know you’re probably going to bar me now. But sorry, I got bullied as a kid and never fought back. I can’t be dealing with that again.

536. Remy Elise - December 1, 2008

I think Alnschloss is Awesome! All man!

537. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - December 2, 2008

Take it to the Feedback page, kids… Geez!

Anyone else think the name “Alnschloss” sounds a little too close to “Anschluss”?

Other than that, the alien is very cool looking….

538. sean - December 2, 2008

#535

In elementary (primary) school, I was once put headfirst into a garbage can. As an adult, it made me far less tolerant of being pushed around! :)

539. Loganotron » Blog Archive » Star Trek’s USS Kelvin - December 2, 2008

[...] Also, Trek Movie breaks it all down here. [...]

540. JP - December 2, 2008

I think the turrets and the warp engine are a little…

I dunno, uncanon. Then again, the whole movie is kinda non canon. It’s kinda like putting phasers in Star Wars. But eh whatever. Still looks cool. I guess I’m somewhat of a traditionalist. The deflector dish too, and the bridge window…. but I could go on lol

Still cool don’t get me wrong, I’m just glad that Star Trek is becoming less geeky.

541. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - December 2, 2008

JP, I think the turrets are going to be on the Kelvin but not on the Enterprise — a nod of transitioning from ENT to STXI.

Also, FYI, they kind of did put phasers in Star Wars. In Attack of the Clones, the Republick gunships have these laser turrets that fire a continuous beam rather than blaster ‘bolts’, and when I first spotted them I immediately thought that SW decided to incorporate ST style phasers.

542. Ken - December 3, 2008

Very cool indeed… I like the look of this ship, because it looks functional (not overly stylized). When Berman and Co. made the Enterprise for the series “Enterprise,” they should have gone for a look like this USS Kelvin.

543. Rick James - December 3, 2008

Wow over 500+ messages about what is and is not canon. The only thing I ever got out of “what is canon” is the ability to defeat nearly all of my friends singlehandedly in Star Trek trivia.

The look of the ships, people, aliens, devices, environments is all window dressing. I’m curious if the story itself will be any good. Trek was a story about characters interacting with each other against a back drop of extraordinary circumstances.

544. Browncoat aka Space Cowboy - December 4, 2008

434. nephron – November 30, 2008

I agree 100% with your points, yet get raked over the coals if I criticize the great god Rick Sternbach and the TNG manual.

545. BK613 - December 4, 2008

543
“Trek was a story about characters interacting with each other against a back drop of extraordinary circumstances.”

I would add ” that occur in a world/universe that is believably real.”

Why?

Because

“Willy Wonka was a story about characters interacting with each other against a back drop of extraordinary circumstances”

works without it.

I want the new movie to be good science fiction and not just fantasy.

IMO of course :-)

546. Closettrekker - December 4, 2008

#540—“Then again, the whole movie is kinda non canon.”

Certainly not, especially since the notion that interference with the past might result in the creation of an alternate timeline has been in itself ‘canon’ from the earliest episodes of TOS.

“City On The Edge Of Forever”….canon.

“Tommorow Is Yesterday”…canon.

“Assignment: Earth”…canon.

TAS, “Yesteryear”…canon (at least in my opinion).

STXI will also be ‘canon’, which has nothing to do with the “window dressing” of asthetic set designs or the shape of the Enterprise warp nacelles.

“I’m just glad that Star Trek is becoming less geeky.”

I’d say it is returning to that state. It did not start out as being “geeky”.

Star Trek was never a “geeks only” club (although that was its most rabid fanbase during the 1970’s syndication of the series) until the TNG-era, IMO.

TOS and the original films were always more character-driven, and much more mainstream friendly.

While nearly everyone remembers “the one with the whales”, I’m not so sure the average moviegoer could tell you anything about the time Worf got a pimple…

While characters like Picard, Data, and Riker are definitely “geek icons”, Kirk, Spock, McCoy, and Scotty are icons of “popular culture”. There is a difference, to be sure.

547. Dom - December 4, 2008

Reminder to self: don’t get into rows when half asleep and worn out during a night shift! Doh!

548. S Tercero - December 19, 2008

Hey is this the only connection to Babel 2, or does it even exsist?

549. S Tercero - February 23, 2009

Hello, If anyone has contact to Babel 2 please tell them that Dad will get me a very delayed message from you tomorrow. I haven’t seen him for quite some years. So it will be sweet. Just him and me. Wish you well.

550. Tiberius - May 11, 2009

Alnschloss K’Bentayr I think is more a nod to the alien (forget its name) from the animated series. It is pretty similar and sits in the same spot as the one on the animated series

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