Frakes Up On Star Trek 2009 & Up For More Star Trek TNG December 5, 2008
by TrekMovie.com Staff , Filed under: Star Trek (2009 film), TNG , trackback
This weekend TNT airs the latest installment of their The Librarian TV movie series (directed by TNG’s Jonathan Frakes). In a new interview with iF Magazine promoting the show, the Trek veteran talks about the franchise, past, present and future, including commenting on his visit to the set of the new Star Trek movie.
Frakes on Star Trek 2009 and beyond
excerpts from iF Magazine
iF: And of course there’s STAR TREK – but of course there was a long time between the original series and the movies and it was a logical progression to go from CLASSIC TREK to NEXT GEN movies. Speaking of STAR TREK, are you excited about the new J.J. Abrams movie?
FRAKES: I’ve very optimistic about the new movie. I’m a big fan of his as a storyteller and I was there and it looked great. I was lucky enough to visit the set and was overwhelmed how beautiful the [Enterprise] bridge was.
iF: You were just there to hang out – no top secret cameo?
FRAKES: [The] First [A.D. - Tommy Gormley] was my first [on Thunderbirds], and J.J. is married to a girl I know in Maine, so we had these connections and we’ve been trading notes back and forth and finally went over to have a little schmooze with them and it happened to be the day they were on the bridge. I must say, it was very emotional to be on someone else’s STAR TREK set, as you could imagine.
iF: At the same time, do you feel sad that the NEXT GEN movies have come to an end?
FRAKES: Yes. By all means. I had dinner with Patrick [Stewart] last week and we were both ready to go back to do another one.
iF: Do you think that ship has sailed that NEXT GEN anything is pretty much off the table.
FRAKES: I don’t think so. I think if this is successful, it opens up any number of possibilities for the whole STAR TREK franchise, so we’ll see how this does.
…much more from Frakes on Trek, including the Star Trek Enterprise finale at iF Magazine.
Frakes at Librarian Wrap Party in LA – November 19th (wire image)
Catch The Librarian this weekend
The Librarian: The Curse of the Judas Chalice, directed by Jonathan Frakes, airs Sunday December 7th at 8PM on TNT. See a behind the scenes video, including some clips of Frakes in action. Also see part 1 of iF Magazine’s interview with Frakes, focusing on The Librarian.
[Photos Wire Image]
Loading ...
Comments»
TNG has its own network now? Sweet
Frakes is the man. Class act all the way. I hope they do more Next Gen projects.
While it’s true there’s nothing to prohibit members of the TNG cast to return to the screen in a Star Trek project, I do not believe anything concrete will come along soon, and if and when it does, it will be in the manner that Scotty and Kirk appeared in Generations — as a tie-in.
I’m all for that kind of thing if it’s done well, but it has to be organic and serve the story, unlike, say, the ending of Generations.
It was stupid to kill Kirk for dramatic effect, and it would be stupid to pull the same kind of stunt with any of the TNG cast — but alas, it’s already been done with the ‘death’ of Data in Nemesis.
Frakes is just a gracefull guy, seen him in many interviews and he’s always impressed me. Maybe there’s room for a Next Gen ‘Titan’ also, its a big universe?
#3 Death of Data = *sigh of dissapointment*
It would be great to see some post Nemisis Trek. Maybe while Riker’s ship Titan is back at Romulus for talks they find Data’s head in the debris cloud from the explosion, and the plug his damaged head into Lore’s body. Brent Spiner then wears a mask that hides his age. His head has survived explosions before on the series. Problem solved.
While I’m at it, after all of Nero’s messing around in the timeline, Kirk survives and doesn’t die in Generations.
Well Frakes is the man in the know, superb man, with connections.
I think some TNG TV movies or a mini series would be fantastic, and appropriate.
Whether Titan or enterprise-E.
Bring it on Jon! (direct too please!)
#3 The saddest thing is that Data’s death was patheticly handled and contained no emotional punch whatsoever. I blame Stuart Baird first and foremost for that, but John Logan the supposed big “fan” should take some blame as well. If Nock Meyer had of handled Spokc’s death as badly there would have been no Star Trek III.
How great would it be to have a really epic story that spans TOS and TNG, with Nimoy and Shatner in it, too.
But without real time travel… Imagine a story that starts in TNG, some catastrophic event is happening and the answer to this lies in the past. The story could switch between TOS and TNG and old Spock is there to help and the key to solving the problem is to ressurrect old Kirk.
# A Titan miniseries I could see, but Patrick wouldn’t come back for a TV movie and the former is unlikely since Berman is no longer at the helm.
I’d be interested to know whether Bob Orci thinks the door is closed on TNG now.
While I wouldn’t be averse to a Titan TV movie or show – assuming they got some good writers and dropped all that self-indulgent nonsense the show fell into – I have a feeling that TNG’s time has come and gone. Other than its core fans (who simply could not supply the box office to sustain the show on their own) it has really slipped out of the public consciousness. It doesn’t have any significant presence at all on TV anymore and any inroads it made with general audiences have long since crumbled away.
I do hope some TNG feature springs out from this new movie, if it gets to be a hit. With a new wave of possible fans, it may just be the right time to make at least a new mini-series.
I wouldn’t really want to see a new TNG-movie, since for some reason TNG as episodes always felt more “right” for me and TNG movies were never really greatly successful (with the exception of First Contact).
As much as we are expecting the new TOS-era movie, don’t forget TNG has many fans too!
#11 since his future paycheque rides on the succes of the “re-invigorated” Kirk & Spock I’d say that as a fan he might want some more, but as a professional absolutely not!
Paramount has sold the sets, costumes, etc and anything from this movie foreward will be new. Sorry folks but TNG, DS9, Voyager,Enterprise are over and have been for 6 years. The only thing Paramount will do is sell merchandise on the Next Gen era and even then it’s just letting others make the stuff and they get the checks…….
Pull the Turkey, it’s done…..
Darth “Let it Go” Ballz
I’m excited about XI, but I also love TNG. If another movie is done, I just hope it’ll feature Q this time.
NEVER! As long at the main cast lives, there are always possibilities!
I think a Next Gen project is more unlikely because Spiner’s age would create a LOT of CGI repair were B4 to become the new Data. But a Titan series with Frakes and Sirtis (and hopefully Burton, McFadden and Dorn) would be worth a shot. Anything well written and well produced would find an audience and this one would come in with an establish fan base.
And there’s also a possible visit my the new crew to Picard’s century in the next movie.
I agree with #11. I wand to hear what Bob Orci has to say.
I grew up with TNG so I really wanna see these guys back one last time… Im sure the aftermath of Nemesis could be interesting perhaps Picard and Riker in the E and Titan could battle some renegade Rommies then a new spicies like the Kessok get involved ala Bridge Commander ;)
The big problem with TNG films versus the series is that the studio simply rehashed the themes and overall tone of the original six films in all of the TNG outings and betrayed what TNG was all about while on the small screen. I felt TNG was very dumbed down for the films.
I love both the Original series and TNG, but I was always disappointed with the TNG films…yes, even First Contact. Though definitely entertaining and fun, it was merely a mishmash of Wrath of Kahn and The Voyage Home.
i just don’t get this spiner-data-aging-problem. data’s aim was to become more human. so bring data/b4 back and let him age. do it like robin williams did in the bicentennial man.
@10 El Chup – How can you be so sure about that? He’s not an American actor so he doesn’t care if it’s on TV or in the movies. I don’t think he would have any problem with that at all.
Somehow I would prefer a TV movie, because I think that would make them focus more on the story. A theatrical release is also probably not very realistic.
Glad to here Pat is keen on doing it too! In other words this mean that:
Pat is on.
Jon is on.
LeVar is on.
Dorn, Sirtis and McFadden doesn’t have anything else to do and would probably be happy for the money.
We also know that Wil Wheaton would happily join.
So that leaves with only one problem – Brent Spiner. I really loved Data, but I don’t think it’s a disaster if wouldn’t be in it. But honestly, I think he would come around if everybody else joined…
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=3FWu0pk_4j4
watch from 4:37 on! this is what star trek is about imho. i want tng to continue devotet to what q sais to picard…
Notice that he dodged the secret cameo question with the usual ‘friend of a friend’ answer. LOL I think that if there were one obligatory character cameo used to tie the timelines together, Riker would be the fan favorite. USS Titan as launchpoint for Spock’s timeship, anyone?
The new bridge looks good?! Obviously he doesn’t know anything! Everyone who has only seen a few shots of it knows better than someone who has seen the whole set that it looks horrible. He and Nimoy are in league with JJ. Off with his head!
#24–
You’re an idiot.
It will all be explained….all in good time…young padawan.
THE BRENT SPINER/DATA ISSUE…
CGI motion-capture. Spiner can still act and use his voice… CGI will make Data ageless and more android-like. That’s the way to go, people!!! The technology is there…
Star Trek XII: How Data Got His Groove Back
Gentlemen, we can rebuild him. We have the technology. We have the capability to build the world’s first bionic android. Steve Austin, err Data, will be that android. Better than he was before. Better, stronger, faster.
Sorry Mr. Frakes, but the TNG ship has sailed, there’s a new kid in town.
Frakes is one of the most good humored and down-to-earth actors associated with “Star Trek.” Good for him.
I’m actually less sure now than six months ago that the “ship has sailed” for TNG. If this movie is a huge success, CBS might be interested in any number of projects on the television side.
A TNG movie or continuing series might be off the table, but who knows what the suits might dream up to leverage those parts of the Franchise they already own.
Bear in mind that the seven year TNG television series was one of the most successful “Star Trek” projects that Paramount ever produced. If they were looking to try to put some kind of TV or direct-to-DVD short form Trek project into motion quickly in the year or so following Abrams’ movie – well, they probably couldn’t do a variation of TOS and given the choice between developing something new from the ground up and doing something with a proven ratings winner they just might choose something TNG-based.
TNG =
finito
game over
gameous overus
its over
had it
done
no more
finished
end of
“Persona Unknown” sounds really interesting. I hope it gets picked up by a U.S. channel, or eventually comes out on DVD.
I’d love to see some kind of TNG reunion, but it’s have to be done just right. My feeling is that it should be small-screen, though.
#30 I agree. Its done.
The only way tng could ever come back is to make it a “direct to DVD movie” …like stargate.
You guys are all forgetting that Trek 2009 re-writes the entire Trek universe
I would love to see a next gen movie WITHOUT Data. No B4 either. Data was always a Spock rip off anyway. They wrote Phase ii with Xon, not Spock, and they can write TNG Phase II without Data. I dont think Dorn wants to be Worf anymore either.
I always thought Dr Crusher was underused, and counselor Troy was overused. But being married, Mr & Mrs Troi would be in the next Next Gen movie.
They could put it on the Titan, center it around Frakes, Stewart guest stars, no Worf, Data, or Wesley. Maybe include someone from DS9 or Voyager, not Janeway or Paris or Kim. Tuvok would be good to replace Data & Worf.
Bob, get cracking!
#29 … That makes sense. I wouldn’t mind seeing more TNG with Stewart and Frakes, as long as it was written well. I think it’s sad that they never got their fair shake on the big screen; they deserved better. It will be interesting to see what, if any, tv projects result from JJ’s movie (assuming it’s a hit).
I’ve never understood why people dislike TNG. I thought it was an excellent update of the series. Intelligent, thought provoking, and often (like it’s predecessor) made clever social commentary.
No, it was not the same style as TOS, but why should it have been? Not all conflicts can be solved with fist fights and grand speeches.
TNG was at it’s best on television. They tried too hard to convert the formula into blockbuster films. That decision was doomed from the start. Sure, it made the studio money, but it never felt quite right.
More importantly, I believe the series brought a broader range of fans to the series than TOS and its movies could. Let’s face it, the reason we’re all here sharing our different viewpoints is in large part a result of the show’s success. It deserves more respect than has been demonstrated here.
Two words: mini series.
I highly doubt that a return to the big screen would be a possibility, and even if it was, I’m afraid that the new movie may set a standard that will be too high for TNG to achieve. In fact, my fear would be a re-working of TNG so that it looks more like the new Star Trek, and I think that may take away from the movie as a whole. Let’s not forget that the last attempt at making TNG “more accessible to a general audience” was the idea of bringing in Stuart Baird – and look what we got. I think we should be careful what WE ask for. Remember, a lot of these websites and posts are being monitored right now. Maybe some good ideas are starting to filter out from our discussions each day to some people who might be able to make something happen.
On that note, I would certainly be up for a television movie featuring the TNG cast that TIES INTO a new series. Whether or not that is a new Titan series or if it becomes a new cast altogether, I think that the time is almost right for a new trip down Star Trek series lane. Although, I do suggest that someone come up with a unique idea. Something a la DS9 with a little more space travel. There’s plenty of great ideas out there. Time to put one of them to use. Oh, and if any former cast member were to be brought on as a regular, I would certain lobby for Frakes as Riker. I also wouldn’t mind seeing Colm Meaney return as O’Brien. I certainly miss his character from the ol’ DS9 days.
Showed my wife the trailer for the first time last night. HER reaction: “THAT’S STAR TREK???? It might actually be good!”
What they should do is make a a show comprised of the characters that they killed off.
Name of the ship: USS Reconstitution
37 –
Two words: Its Over
anyway it looks like TNG is gonna get some sort of final final closure in the forthcoming 4 part prequel comics..(not that it needs it as the final 10 minutes of Nemesis was fine in presenting closure to TNG )
Regarding Patrick Stewart coming back, remember while he had his big X-Men movies, he has done ALOT of TV movies for smaller networks. I think I saw a promo for a remake of The Isle of Dr. Monroe for Lifetime or TNT something like that. He would do a TV movie if they asked I’ll bet.
BTW, #25, re-read my comment. I was being sarcastic.
#37:”Two words: mini series.”
Or an animated series. If “Clone Wars” is a particular success, CBS might want to copy that approach to some degree.
If the twists and turns in the forty-plus year history of this Franchise have demonstrated anything, it’s that declaring any aspect of it “over” is always premature.
Looked at from CBS’s perspective, the choice between exploiting an already-existing and successful television version of Trek and trying to develop an expensive new Trek project from the beginning forward may not be a complicated one.
As for this movie “changing the Trek universe…” well, TNG was created with as much of a “firewall” against TOS as the producers chose to incorporate – for a year or two references to the original series were very, very slim, and as the series wore on (and Roddenberry stepped way back from the project) the writers chose to incorporate more and more.
I doubt that there’s anything in Abrams’ movie that’s specific enough to contradict TNG in a big way, with that hundred-year-separation between them.
Frakes what a class act.
Yes people. All in the room have your say to Mini series:
Aye
or
Nay ?
Orci?
I would like to see a smallscreen trek series featuring Riker and Crew. Paramount can milk that cash cow with a mini-series similar to what was done with Galactica before it became a series.
I would have also liked to see Riker as Captain of the Enterprise! He waited so many years to get her, and then he accepts the titan. So I would start off the miniseries by gloriously destroying the titan w/ Picard getting promoted and giving Riker the enterprise E! LOL, wishful thinking on my part, but seriously I do think a star trek miniseries featuring Riker and Crew would be great! :-D
Like it or not, TNG was a success as a series a generation ago. As a film series, it ultimately crashed and burned miserably. It had a successful run on TV, then was stupidly cancelled. They should have gradually recast the show, like most ensemble series, and it could have run for 14 years! In the course of its run Picard could have been superceded by Riker, there could have been an Enterprise E and heaven knows what else!
Anyway, with the wholesale rewrite of the Trek universe and, frankly, a very different style of Trek replacing the softer 80s stylings of TNG and its bedfellows, what would be the point?
Better surely to spend money on a decent cartoon series using Kirk, Spock and McCoy, with the style based on the new film.
Only a complete idiot would relaunch a major franchise, then go back to a series that ultimately failed. If Paramount want Trek to stay relevant to the public, then the last thing you do is muddy the waters with a different incarnation.
New Star Trek: TNG, to be brutal, will kill all Star Trek stone dead!
I would love to see one more Next Gen picture. I would like to see it with Frakes as captain of his own ship with his own new crew helping Stewart as captain of the E. That would make for some good film.
It’s less likely than an appearance from the Shat !
I would love to see another TNG movie or something, but let’s face it, I don’t buy these optimistic comments from people like Frakes and Burton. As unfortunate as it is, TNG’s ship has sailed.
Just as Leonard Nimoy’s appearance is going to be the last time–period–we ever see any of the original series actors in Trek, we will never again see a TNG movie.
No more DS9. No more Voyager. No more Enterprise. (Yes, I know I’m in the minority when I miss that one.)
At least we still have our DVDs. But any future projects featuring any of the actors that have come before (unless they are guest spots, or something) just aren’t going to happen.
After this movie, if it’s a success, we’ll get a sequel or two. Then Paramount might think about another series. It would be a new series, I think, with an entirely new crew. And that would be great.
If this movie tanks, we’re in serious trouble.
But I’ve made my peace with the end of TNG. Thank you Mr. Frakes, and the rest of the wonderful TNG cast, with the entertainment you’ve given us over the past 20 years.
Would it be practical to do a made-for-TV ST:TNG movie, I wonder? That would make a pretty spiffy TV event that they could air near the time of a reboot movie release as a kind of cross-franchise promo. If they still have enough of the sets lying around, anyway.
#36
People dislike TNG? Heresy!
I love all Trek. It really saddens me to hear any of the series get bashed.
I would wonder with the death of Data and everyone doing prequals these days if they would actually do a prequal to the TNG. There is the possibility for alot of interesting story lines.
#50
I do believe a lot of the TNG sets got re-used in the later series, but wasn’t everything pretty much dismantled when Enterprise ended?
#52
Recast TNG and do the whole reboot thing again?
I’d watch it….
Look at that spectacular success of the Stargate direct-to-dvd movies. Something like that would be perfect for a ‘Titan’ movie.
I agree that a TNG series is not in the cards. Assuming there developed interest and $$$, I could see, eventually, a post-TNG series or what-have-you that featured TNG cast as one-off guest stars or recurring guest stars. No TNG cast member is going to be the star of the show anymore, IMO.
26 SPB — excellent idea. I think giving Data the Smeagle/prequel-Yoda treatment would be a fabulous solution. The problem: major $$$.
“Aye, here’s to ya’ laddie.”
Frakes is truly class all the way. As much as I wasn’t too much a fan of Riker, Frakes is simply amazing.
I’d like to see another one. Whether or not it’s feasible or even reasonable to do one… is an entirely different matter. I don’t think TNG has completely gone. But without Data…. it just wouldn’t be right. I would, honestly, like some follow up on the books. Or maybe even post-book era?
# 46
“Like it or not, TNG was a success as a series a generation ago. As a film series, it ultimately crashed and burned miserably. It had a successful run on TV, then was stupidly cancelled”
I don’t remeber TNG being cancelled. It was planned to end in the 7th season just like DS9, VOY. Only two shows have been cancelled, TOS and ENT.
^ Rephrase: I agree that a new TNG series or movie is not in the cards….
I think that at least one more TNG movie would be amazing.
It could even work to still have Riker and Troi on the Titan, like how Sulu was on the Excelsior in VI, only they should have much more interaction than just “Sulu saves the day”.
For one they should keep it simple – Make Worf first officer, bring back Dr. Crusher and maybe even Wesley (in a small capacity) – Just keep it with the books and don’t try to introduce any new first officer or anything.
If Brent Spiner will come back, I could see them finally finding Data’s memory and personality in B4 and somehow restoring him (though not in a quick-fix, deus ex machina kind of way).
When it comes to story there’s lots that can be tackled. For one it should be epic, but less dark than Nemesis. If it is a send-off for the Next Gen, it should still be positive and uplifting. I know some would disagree, but I think there should be some cameos from DS9 and Voyager cast. Maybe not all of them, but if it is an epic scale movie, it would make sense to have Admiral Janeway in a larger role. Maybe show what happened to The Doctor.
Perhaps a story about a REAL all-out assault by the Borg would be good. Plenty of space battle action on the scale of the Dominion War and Star Wars. And I could definitely see some interesting interaction between Seven of Nine and Picard over the Borg. Or what about Q? He’s been neglected in the movies, and he’s one of those characters that I’m sure almost everyone would love to see. Not to mention again all three Next Gen captains have had experiences with him.
There’s still stories to be told that could work well if executed well. Even a tv movie or miniseries would be great. But I think its a crime for Next Generation to go out on Nemesis where they SHOULD be going out “boldly going where no one has gone before”.
We’re missing out on speculating why Frakes evaded the Big Question about cameo…
Because at the end of the new movie, we’ll see Frakes pop up in a new-TOS style uniform… and he says…
“Computer, end program!”
And he and Marina walk out of the holodeck again with him saying “I still don’t know how to resolve this Pegasus issue!”
“Look at that spectacular success of the Stargate direct-to-dvd movies. Something like that would be perfect for a ‘Titan’ movie.”
Except that you’re forgetting the fact that the reason they were a success was because the franchise was still on the air in some fashion so exposure was still out there.
Cool fact about Frakes: if you see him in an elevator in LA, he doesn’t stare at the floor or look too busy or too cool. He engages you and smiles. I’ve had this experience and so did other people in my building. He projects an incredible amount of charisma before he even starts speaking.
Of all the TNG cast, he got robbed. He could have been written and developed into a much more Kirk-like hero.
No. There are plenty of great TNG episodes and movies to satisfy my craving for TNG. I suppose a Titan series or tv movie could be fun, but I’d hate to see some low-budget tv series undermine what is now being established with the new movie.
I think one of the reasons the Kirk/Spock/McCoy era is so appealing is that there were so few good TOS episodes. We only have 3 seasons, one of which is almost unwatchable…and only 6 feature films. It’s an injustice that we don’t have as many TOS episodes as TNG. I’m hoping that this new movie will kick off a long era of great Star Trek!
How do we make a TNG movie (or even TV Movie) happen? I would give good money to make this happen on TV…regularly.
Seriously…how do we make this happen?
The whole point of the new film is that it revamps the timeline and makes Kirk, Spock and McCoy’s era the ‘current’ one. That’s why the new Enterprise looks so futuristic and more advanced than any old-school TNG-era ships.
If you turn around and make a TNG follow-up now, you immediately reign in the scope of a neo-Trek film, because the Pine/Quinto/Urban saga immediately becomes a historical period. That historical period then becomes limited by the events and universe of the TNG period. No sane company is going to limit their tentpole movie franchise with a new TV show.
On the other hand, the earlier adventures of Christopher Pike would doubtless be a potential spin-off!
No Next Gen mini-series, or Direct to DVD movie, or TV special. The Next Gen deserves a FILM just as lovingly produced, written, and directed and with Star Trek 2009’s budget as the original characters do. I feel like the Next Gen got short changed in the movies by the Berman-Braga what do the fanboys want to see approach, and Paramount. I would love to see a Next Gen movie that thinks OUTSIDE the BOX the way JJ Abrams is approaching this TOS movie… Of course, there’d be no reason to recast Picard and company…
#65
Well first we build a time machine and go back to a time right after First Contact premiered, at that point we shred everything that was Insurrection and replace it with Nemesis, thus living up to the odd number Star Trek movie rule. After this we replace the tenth movie with a spectacular high budget adventure based on the post Nemesis era that includes cameos from several other series (i.e. Sisko, O’Brien, Bashir, Tuvok, etc…) and we throw in some sort of time travel in it and we crown it the best Star Trek movie ever.
Here’s a question (appropriate for a Friday): which Trek cast member(s) would you most like have a pint with?
My vote is for Frakes, Nimoy and Tim Russ
(If I had a time machine, I’d add James Doohan)
That should read: which Trek cast member(s) would you most like TO have a pint with?
Maybe I started a little early today…
That should read: which Trek cast member(s) would you most like TO have a pint with?
1. Brent Spiner
2. Gates McFadden
Or, if they where smart, they would have released the movies in the summer and would have done way better in the box officer. Thus, we would still have TNG.
Well, to make a new Riker-based series, you need a production company and proposal on how it’s going to be filmed.
Frakes could be the center of the series, both in executive production, directing, and leading the cast — but perhaps not THE lead… just playing the Captain of the USS Titan. Set it another ten years after the Titan, and put him back on an Enterprise. Let this new series be an anthology… “Tales of the Enterprise” if you will. Some weeks, we might enjoy Captain Riker’s holodeck history visits? Other weeks, we might go with a team dropped off on a base or a planet and tell these 3-episode arc stories that Manny Coto made ST: Enterprise “click” on so well.
But, other than having Sirtis onboard, I don’t think you need any of the major characters before *unless* they’re cheap. Save them for guest shots. Of course, if you can talk Ashley Judd into portraying the lead Commander Lefler who’s the one leading those away teams, there you go. And maybe Aron Eisenberg as Lt. Nog. Playing Nog as the hyper-intelligent and confident science officer.
As for Data. Who’s not to say B-4 decided to build his face differently from Data. Recast him. Arye Gross is close enough in build and face, that B-4 doing this would be believable.
Mmmmm…. I wonder….. If RIKR has a cameo in this film, how old would he be? Would he be commanding the Enterprise E instead of Titan? If the movie is set 20 years or so after Nemesis, we may see RIKER aged more than the actor is in real life, as we are seeing with SPOCK? Something tells me this all happens around the same time as “…All Good Things…”
As for future TNG films… I am really happyto hear that Patrick Stewart is interested again. Yeah, they might not go the Direct-to – DVD route, and I can see them doing a mini-series for the sci-fi channel. But what about for HBO? That is the premier Pay-per-view channel in the US, and would draw in millions of fans. That might be the respectable way to go. I would love a TNG film on the big screen, bt this would be just as good in my eyes.
69. Andros. ‘After this we replace the tenth movie with a spectacular high budget adventure based on the post Nemesis era that includes cameos from several other series (i.e. Sisko, O’Brien, Bashir, Tuvok, etc…) and we throw in some sort of time travel in it and we crown it the best Star Trek movie ever.’
Most people would say: ‘Sisko who?’ ‘Tuvok? Is he related to Spock?’
TNG and its bedfellows have geek icons. TOS has popular culture icons.
My vote for a new TV show would be one with Pike on a USS Enterprise that’s the same design as the USS Kelvin!
Jonathan has always been a class act. I wish him all the best.
When I initially found out that the new star trek movie wasnt TNG, I DIED.
Now, I am REALLY EXCITED about JJ Abrams Star Trek, but I would still LOVE to see anything TNG!!!
#6 and #26
Yes yes yes!
The cast from that show look almost as old from the TOS crew now.
The last movie bombed, so there will be no “The Search for Data”. And the writers would have to explain the ageless Data looking very aged.
TNG is over.
All you would have to do is find a damaged Data head – repair his face and vocal hardware (cast a new actor – sorry Brent) and that problem is solved.
OR – Data may prefer to visually match the age of his crew-mates, friends, companions.
Hmm, not a bunch of beer drinkers here. Just you and me Steve.
Oh well, we’ll have the cast members to ourselves.
Frakes looks like he’s already had a couple!
For the love of god don’t let this man near a camera. Whilst I absolutely love his personality & character in TNG I don’t think he’s a very good director..not to my taste anyway.
If they DO make a new TNG it should be straight to DVD thats perfectly acceptable..although where the sets are gonna come from is a mystery maybe they can film it at the star trek experience..
Sexy
I accept a re-imagined TNG under one condition, and only under this condition: Katee Sackhoff must play Tahsa Yar!!!
;-)
# 82 “OR – Data may prefer to visually match the age of his crew-mates, friends, companions.”
Data: Captain, I prefer to look fat, old, and haggard to better resemble my colleagues.
OR – Q secretly rescues Data at the end of Nemesis and rewards him for his bravery by making him human… …a very old human.
ROFLCOPTER
TNG is indeed over.
No closure for the crew. No revelations about the fate of the Enterprise-E. Just an open-ended property with licensing rights for Paramount/Viacom to enjoy.
I doubt Mr. Orci is going to surprise us.
I would love to see TNG return. Sadly, after watching the last episode of ENT, I’m convinced Frakes and Sirtis have NO business returning to their characters. They lacked the necessary charisma and acting aptitude in that particular episode to convince me “More TNG! Bring on a Titan series!” (Just like I was mortified when watching VOY’s “Flashback” episode and witnessing Grace Lee Whitney’s acting as Rand. Unbelievably bad – and I know she’s capable of MUCH better.)
Bringing back TNG requires pushing Trek further into the future, meaning more whiz-bang, “futuristic” stuff. And that would knock the wind out of the already “futuristic” TOS movies to come.
TNG is dead.
I want it. I know fans would welcome it. I imagine Mr. Orci wants it.
But it’s not happening.
Then again, let’s see how George Lucas’s Star Wars TV series does. Maybe that will be a catalyst to bringing Trek back to the small screen…
JJ should have offered him a cameo as the Chef!
#84- Frakes NOT a good director?!?!
Makes me wonder what your standards are…
#20 Yeah. Wasn’t Data programmed to display simulated aging?
That explanation would easily solve that issue.
#66:”If you turn around and make a TNG follow-up now, you immediately reign in the scope of a neo-Trek film, because the Pine/Quinto/Urban saga immediately becomes a historical period. That historical period then becomes limited by the events and universe of the TNG period. No sane company is going to limit their tentpole movie franchise with a new TV show.”
Why do you think that CBS and Paramount would care about the minutiae of continuity in this regard?
If this movie is successful, it immediately devalues the entire notion of “canon” regardless of how fans (or even the producers) argue that it all “fits together” or “can be explained.”
TNG was designed not to step on the toes of the TOS movies – that was a big reason for setting it a century later. The idea worked then, and it would work well enough now to make it worthwhile for the studio – not as a full-blown TV series, certainly, but as some sort of production that would bring in revenues.
If I had to bet, it would be on animation – (relatively) limited budgets and the opportunity to use most any actor who appeared on TNG in the past.
I loved Riker as a character, from the viewer’s perspective. I’m not sure I would have enjoyed serving under him, though. He could be pretty harsh on the underlings! “One ‘aye’ will be sufficient, Ensign!”
No, they are too old to do more movies.
You would need to get a new cast:
Colin Salmon as Picard
Don Cheadle as La Forge
Yar – Katie Sackhoff
Worf – Adam Baldwin
Riker – Paul Giamatti or Nathan Fillion or Kieffer Sutherland
Troi – Brittany Murphy
Dr. Crusher – Rachel McAddams
and so on
And you would need a way to break out of the ST mold, it’s too limiting.
You could have Nero go into the past and muck things up a bit. It would still be canon, since the original timeline would be there…
Is it just me, or is he looking more & more like Shatner?
I wouldn’t mind CBS trying a TNG (or Titan) TV movie or miniseries, but I think its very unlikely. CBS is the healthiest of the networks and needs not take chances on an expensive project like Star Trek. And such a movie would be too pricey for ratings-challenged sister network The CW.
CBS will never do a Star Trek weekly series, and The CW will probably be dead within 18 months. So I suspect hopes for new Trek on TV in the next 5-10 years are unrealistic.
Direct to DVD is the way to go. low production cost, high profit.
”
91. YARN – December 5, 2008
No, they are too old to do more movies.
You would need to get a new cast:
Colin Salmon as Picard
Don Cheadle as La Forge
Yar – Katie Sackhoff
Worf – Adam Baldwin
Riker – Paul Giamatti or Nathan Fillion or Kieffer Sutherland
Troi – Brittany Murphy
Dr. Crusher – Rachel McAddams
”
Ditch brittany murphy and you’ve got a deal. i like the picard pick.
Ahh I can’t read stuff like this it gets me too excited about the prospect of a new TNG film. Someone needs to push the idea that it doesn’t need to be in theaters, people would love a straight to DVD release. Not to mention they could premier it on Sci-Fi or Spike since they always play Trek. Even in today’s economy I’m sure they could raise the money for something decent, especially if they get private investors to come on board. This is posisble, make it happen!
I personally think that Paramount is going to see how this movie does before it makes any big decisions on Startrek. I too would love to see a new series of trek on tv like TNG or even Titan but i dont keep my hopes up. I never even thought they would be doing another movie either but hey…!
I personally never cared fore the character Riker or Data. My favorite TNG character was Dr. Crusher and tasha yar.
I am extremely excited about the new movie because i am a huge fan of Chris Pine .
#93:”CBS is the healthiest of the networks and needs not take chances on an expensive project like Star Trek. ”
CBS Paramount is the television division of Viacom, and may produce series for networks and outlets other than the CBS broadcast network.
Dang Frakes! You’re my hero but, for crying out loud DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE HAIR!!!!!!
Hi Dennis Bailey (89)
‘Why do you think that CBS and Paramount would care about the minutiae of continuity in this regard? If this movie is successful, it immediately devalues the entire notion of “canon” regardless of how fans (or even the producers) argue that it all “fits together” or “can be explained.”’
Fine. Well you can say that, I didn’t fancy a canonista fatwa placing on my head! ;) Yes you could make a TNG show that ignores the new movie continuity, but we live in an era of brands and new Star Trek product in a different universe would cause brand confusion could potentially devalue the brand as a whole.
Matybe in a few years you could consider it, but right now, it makes better commercial sense to rebuild the Trek brand one step at a time!
‘TNG was designed not to step on the toes of the TOS movies – that was a big reason for setting it a century later.’
But it did! And Rodders knew it would! He wanted Trek for himself and he had an army of lawyers all over the new show. Rodders wanted TOS buried and TNG to replace it!
The scope of the TOS films was massively limited by TNG. Suddenly, we’re told that Kirk and his crew had explored far less of the galaxy than we were given to believe in TOS, TAS and the movies. In the movie novelisations, which had a degree of relevance to Trek fans, before new shows flooded the market, there was even discussion of the new Galaxy Class starships that were now exploring other galaxies.
You couldn’t do anything universe shattering anymore: Qu’Onos couldn’t be destroyed in Star Trek VI, because we see it in TNG. The Federation couldn’t collapse and whole major Trek races get wiped out in massive assault by an alien armada, because TNG contradicted it! The last two TOS movies were completely handcuffed by TNG!
‘The idea worked then, and it would work well enough now to make it worthwhile for the studio – not as a full-blown TV series, certainly, but as some sort of production that would bring in revenues.’
Only at the cost of brand confusion and potentially alienating fans of the new movies. Better to make shows, novels and comicbook series that spin off directly from the new films than to resurrect a contradictory series that’s been dead for 14 years!
‘If I had to bet, it would be on animation – (relatively) limited budgets and the opportunity to use most any actor who appeared on TNG in the past.’
Better to make a cartoon based on the new Trek film or characters directly related to it and maybe hire in a couple of TNG actors on a day off to record a couple of guest voice to appease the nerds!!! ;)
Something I’ve always wondered about was who exactly had the foot fetish as far as episode directors went?
I think it’s LeVar Burton, but it could have been Frakes…
#99
Dude, he’s Jonathan ‘friggin’ Frakes, he can do whatever he wants with his hair…
…ah to be a celebrity.
#24
#25 is right — you are an idiot. If Commander Riker and Captain/Ambassador Spock say the movie/bridge/whatever is good about this movie, then it is — end of story! They have both been here before, they know what is going on–You don’t.
I move for an apology to be delivered.
Any seconds?
#88-the pacing for 1st contact was HORRIBLE..talk about a movie with wasted opportunity’s. From the pathetic opening battle to the dreadfully boring zero-G sequence I could go on…
I loved Frakes as Riker prob my fav character in the series, just not as director.
ScifiBri “Ditch brittany murphy and you’ve got a deal. i like the picard pick.”
OK, give me your pick for Troi – I’m game.
Yes, #92, he looks more and more like Shatner.
But(as a comment to #91) I would really like to see more TNG with the old cast. Maybe with Spiner as B4, though I heard someone say he’s getting too old to manage playing android. But first of all, the Star Trek team should continue making more TOS movies with the new cast, if the upcoming movie will be successful.
A good idea could be making new TNG series(for the small screen) and TOS movies(for the big screen) simultanously, like they did in late 80s/early 90s.
RE:
“CBS Paramount is the television division of Viacom, and may produce series for networks and outlets other than the CBS broadcast network.”
Actually CBS is now a stand alone corporation and no longer part of viacom. However it is true that CBS Studios can (and does) produce shows that are sold to other networks. For example, CBS produced 4400, the show run by Ira Behr, which was sold to USA (which is owned by NBC Uni). So although only CBS Studios could produce a Star Trek show, they can sell it to any network they want. With the older demographics of the CBS Network, it actually seems the least likely for a new Star Trek show, assuming they would want to aim it at a young market (like we all were when we fell in love with the franchise).
IMHO Trek would work best on NBC, FOX or maybe even CW
Regardless, it seems extremely unlikely that any new Trek TV show would use TNG characters and be set in the TNG era. The producers would want a free hand to create a new universe and also there may be financial issues with using characters created by past show creators. I imagine the producers would want to start clean with their own characters and setting.
If TNG era is ever to live again, I can only imagine it via some direct to DVD movie like they are doing with Stargate
Frakes is a class act – I would love to see a Titan movie, but not right now and it shouldn’t be a TV movie. That would just be lame. If TNG returns, it should be for 1 movie with the new TOS cast. It should include at the very least, Picard, RIker, and Data. Worf and Geordi would be awesome too, but that may be too many characters.
Anyway…..hope we can finally get some closure to the disaster known as nemesis, and give TNG a proper send off.
108. Best thing is to start buying the new TNG novels! Start with Star Trek: Destiny! That’s your closure! :)
91? You would need to get a new cast:
Who to play Ensign Ro??
Kate Beckinsale!
#107 Anthony Pascale – December 5, 2008
“If TNG era is ever to live again, I can only imagine it via some direct to DVD movie like they are doing with Stargate.”
People keep mentioning this as the best economical option. I agree. TNG era stuff done as direct DVD entries makes sense. No new series, just stand-alone movies that they could keep on doing as long as they are successful while classic-TOS stuff is on the big screen.
The only way they’d know if it works is if they try it. But let’s be honest, it would work. Stargate proves it.
111.
We need to cast Troi before we get to Ro.
Bev Crusher – Rene Russo (too old?)
Diane Lane?
Glenn Close
Guinan – CCH Pounder
Where have all my follicles gone ?
111
Yum. I didn’t know her.
Con’d
Riker as captain of USS Titan movie.
Sulu as captain of USS Excelsior movie.
Sisko getting out of wormhole and becoming Starfleet captain again, where DS9 gets destroyed in the process some how.
Janeway as Admiral commandeering the new USS Voyager-A for a mission to help a planet only to get stuck in another galaxy, hilarity ensues.
Picard as captain of USS Enterprise E where he is constantly getting a new Number One every movie because he/she dies all the time.
“Janeway as Admiral commandeering the new USS Voyager-A for a mission to help a planet only to get stuck in another galaxy, hilarity ensues”
–
This brings up a question.
Older Janeway saved Voyager. So, will she need to go back in time now since Voyager is back in the Alpha Quadrant?
Better to make a cartoon based on the new Trek film or characters directly related to it and maybe hire in a couple of TNG actors on a day off to record a couple of guest voice to appease the nerds!!! ;)
This actually seems the likeliest scenario, something like the Clone Wars animated series based on the Star Wars prequels. We won’t see a TNG era film or series because it isn’t aligned with the brand now, as Star Trek is clearly carving into a whole new look. There’s more to it than just satisfying the die-hards.
I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see an animated series based on the new Trek, and there would certainly be opportunity then to indulge in some of this fan craving, with flash-backs or time-travel stories that deal with TNG era etc. Lot of opportunities ahead for Trek, if this film is a big hit. But it needs to be going forward, not indulging in wide-scale nostalgia. That’s what killed the franchise.
116 – According to one of the lead scientists in the field of time travel, Dr. Emmett L. Brown, Janeway’s older self would have ceased to exist as soon as the Voyager arrived in the Alpha Quadrant because her timeline would have no longer existed. Therefore, Janeway is now on a new timeline that will have her growing old in the Alpha Quadrant where the entire crew and ship made it home in one piece.
Hmmm. Not sure. TNG was awesome but I don’t see a way back after Nemisis. What tale needs telling? If the new movie seriously messes with time, then a companion TNG Piece might work, Titan and the Ent-E mixing it with Nero and Spock Prime. CGI might even be a cool way to realize it. Would solve the Spiner being too old issue certainly.
25 & 103 re: 24.
Gee, here I thought Mark was being ironic in #24. I thought he was dripping sarcasm onto the keyboards as he wrote that. I assumed he was actually *satirizing* the nit-picking bridge fanatics. I must have been mistaken!
I would deliberately go for a different looking cast, modified backgrounds and happily mix the age ranges:
Picard: Jean Reno. French, charming, ruthless. Has a strong moral streak, but does what’s necessary, even if it violates protocol.
Riker: Milo Ventimiglia. Still finding his feet, promoted a little too young. Had a past relationship with the older Deanna Troi, played by Merrin Dungey.
Troi: Merrin Dungey. Partially cybernised as a youngster following an accident, Deanna can wetwire link with the Enterprise’s onboard AI and, as a qualified psychologist serves as both an advisor and interrogator.
Data: Roland Kickinger. A leftover cyborg from the WWIII. Very old and distrusted by most of the crew. Because of his lack of emotion, kills without compunction, unless ordered not to. His loyalty to Jean-Luc Picard remains a mystery, as does Picard’s preference to keep him around!
LaForge: Chiwetel Ejiofor (without the stupid VISOR) LaForge is an experienced chief engineer with optical implants after losing his original eyes after looking at dangerous transwarp energy fields. He remains calm under all circumstances. The best liked member of the team.
Worf: Adam Baldwin (without the ridged forehead) Security officer. An outcast among Klingons due to a genetic defect making him look more human. Sarcastic, ill-tempered and ill-disciplined. Is gradually being brought into line by Security Chief Natasha Yar.
Tasha Yar: Linda Hamilton. A survivor of a failed Earth Colony. Tough as nails and Picard’s most trusted advisor. There’s a hint of romance between them.
Dr Crusher: Anthony Head. Jack Crusher is Jean-Luc Picard’s best friend since the academy. Jean-Luc had been in love with Jack’s late wife Beverley and has never forgiven himself for being the one who sent her on the mission that got her killed.
Ro Laren: Kate Beckinsale. the half Bajoran daughter of Jack Crusher and Beverley Laren. Blames Jean-Luc for the death of her mother, but has taken the navigator post on board the Enterprise as a great promotion.
Guinan: Rachel Nichols. Ageless, beautiful and mysterious, Guinan runs the Enterprise bar. She knows Data from as far back as WWIII and was also has a mysterious history with Jean-Luc. Has a hidden agenda.
Now I’ll go into hiding! ;)
119. Jtrekker
Cue a Final Destination scenario where everyone who should have died on the way home still dies!
119. Jtrekker – December 5, 2008
116. AdamTrek Re: Janeway
I agree, and this is why I personally don’t have a problem with a “Nero-Creates-New-Timeline” movie – it’s already been established/done before.
RE: TNG DVD
One caveat is that it is unclear to me who would ever make that. CBS has the TV rights but Paramount has the film rights. Direct to DVD sits in the middle somewhere.
Paramount does have a direct to DVD film division (Paramount Famous Productions) that has ramped up to do 6 titles a year and they are dipping into the Paramount library for ideas. Over the summer they announced plans to create Sequels for Mean Girls, Road Trip, The Naked Gun, Bad News Bears, Grease and Without a Paddle.
I bet the DVD team would love to do Trek but with the Star Trek feature film being the focus and with complications (and possible splitting of money) with CBS, it gets a lot less likely.
125. Anthony Pascale – December 5, 2008
RE: TNG DVD
“I bet the DVD team would love to do Trek but with the Star Trek feature film being the focus and with complications (and possible splitting of money) with CBS, it gets a lot less likely.”
JACK BAUER: Damn it!
122 – Dom
Cool characters. Seems a bit darker than Trek/Starfleet.
I always wished the computer were more of a character but I suppose the holodoc and data served that purpose (and were ambulatory).
I always thought a show (or epi) set in that world/time but showed what life was like for normal folks would have been cool. We never really get to see what tech nomal people enjoy (vehicles, appliances, homes, etc)
But, I am a nerd in wanting to see all of that.
Ugh… what a 2 dimensional actor.
I think TNG has ended… They chose their ending as a bad film, which is sad…
Hi Steve (126). Thanks for the nice words about my ‘blasphemous’ TNG revamp! Yes they’re darker than TNG in one way, but I always felt the TNG characters were a little too clean-cut. these guys are on a giant ship facing unknown threats in deep space. Surely they’d have to be ultimate badasses!
My biggest problem with old-school Star Trek was the lack of Earth-bound civilians. It was a big failing in TNG and its 80s-2000s bedfellows and a smaller problem with TOS, but still there.
One of the few times we saw civilians was when we met Picard’s family (although they seemed exceptionally wealthy, owning a big Californian vineyard in France!!!!! ;) )
Most intriguing in that episode was that Robert Picard seemed to know nothing of the Borg invasion attempt or Wolf-359, implying that there was a civilian news blackout over the massacre! How much in the dark were Earth civilians kept about the various Federation conflicts?
I’m looking forward to seeing Kirk and his family as civilians. It’s one of the most important pieces of ‘fleshing out’ ever done to the Trek universe!
Poor Frakes. He killed TNG with Insurrection.
TNG was killed by Nemesis.
In the words of Frakes, Insurrection was a wonderful film.
It was at least a feel-good film, unlike Nemesis, which was a “WTF?” film.
No, Insurrection was terrible coming off of FC. Please tell me you at least thought the singing in Insurrection was painful?
NO TNG! FRAKES AND CO – GET OVER IT – UR DEAD!!!!!
How about CGI data?
#30. screaming satellite
Abso-Mother&*&%$#-Lutely!!
I’m sure everybody and their kitten have thought of this, but…. Titan TV movie, or straight to DVD! Re-dress the current movie sets! Easy as pie. A multiple cast from TNG, DS9, VOY, and maybe even ENT… why the hell not? It’s sure to make some money….
136- It WILL make money, there are still so many fans of all these shows.
No one else has commented on this, but how wonderful to hear Frakes had dinner with Patrick Stewart the other day.
It’s just heartwarming to know they are still friends.
I would love more TNG movies but I don’t think it is likely. However, I think a few made-for-TV special movies are much more realistic, and would suit the style of TNG more. And that way the TNG franchise can keep going alongside the TOS movies.
I am first and foremost a TNG fan, but I have to be honest and say that in my opinion, TNG is more suited to the small screen. I think a very occasional TV movie could be a big audience-puller, especially if the new films really take off.
139. Jamie
The trouble is, when it comes to DVD and Blu-ray release of these TNG add-on films and they’re advertised as ‘The New Star Trek Film,’ a casual buyer might pick it up thinking it’s a new neo-Trek film. They’ll take it home, see a different cast with no reference to neo-Trek, get annoyed and give up all Trek as a bad job!
Branding is essential in this day and age. No studio is going to want to dilute its brand and confuse newcomers. Quite simply there aren’t enough TNG fans out there to make a TNG DVD worth risking the new version of Trek.
back when Enterprise was on, I’d have been a proponent of straight to DVD Treks set in the TNG era or the TOS era. With a new movie franchise, though, you have to draw the line and leave certain things in the past. There are 25 seasons of TNG/Berman Trek.
There are two hours of Abrams Trek, which is where the franchise’s hopes lie. It makes sense to focus any further Trek on that two hours, rather than risk drowning them out with relaunch of an 80s TV show!
Uh, I think people are smart enough to read the boxes and figure out that a TNG movie is NOT the new movie. At least, I hope so.
TNG – Make it so! I will buy the DVD or the Theater Ticket…
140. No, unfortunately, they’re not. Someone who isn’t all that interested might pick it up for a family member who is only a casual fan based on neo-Trek. Confusion ensues.
Companies are very keen on making a brand clear. It’s the same with any product. A paroduct is aimed at a particular demographic and its not in the company’s interest to dilute that by creating extraneous variations. Otherwise people might stop using that product!
Love Frakes, but those Librarian movies are not my cup of tea (kind of a weird mishmash of Indiana Jones, Tomb Raider and King Solomon’s Mines).
76. Dom
Here you go saying that people wouldn’t know Sisko (7 seasons) or Tuvok (7 seasons) and then you mention a TV series with Captain Pike (2 episodes or 3 if you want to count a Part II as a stand alone episode) and an Enterprise that looks like the Kelvin.
Now THAT would make people go “Who?”
144. Um what? have you read nothing about the new movie at all? Christopher Pike’s in the film! There’s a ship called Kelvin in the film that has a distinctive design!
So basically you’re saying fewer people would recognise characters, designs and concepts based on a brand new blockbuster movie in 2009 than those from dead spinoffs from the 1990s? Are you mad?! :0
Most people never watched Voyager or DS9. The shows might have been trotted out on minor networks to ever lower mainstream interest, but I assure you that most people, at best, would refer to Siako as ‘the black one’ and Janeway as ‘the woman’ if they even know that!
So before scoffing and guffawing, make a rational argument or don’t bother! :p
regarding people going “WHAAA! TNG DIDNT HAVE A SEND OFF LIKE TOS DID! WHAAAA! THERE SHOULD BE $150 MILLION MOVIE/STRAIGHT TO DVD MOVIE/TV MOVIE/TVMINISERIES WITH THE RIKERS etc WHAAAAAAA!! UH HUH HUH HUH HUH HUH!’ *violent crying continues*
well thats not exactly true – TNG has had TWO big send offs – All Good Things (for the tv series…which im currently watching right this second) and Nemesis (for their movies)….if the last 10 minutes of NEM wrapping everything up in TNG wasnt a send off i dont know what is – Everyone going their seperate ways – Picard stays on the Ent with Bobby Kennedy as 1st officer (in the alternate ending), Data gone, Riker finally becomes Captain and goes to the Titan with Troi, Crusher goes to SF Medical, Ent E in TMP space dock as TMP spacedock theme plays (going right back to the 1st film)…*side note* – Nemesis was also as much of a homage/rip off of Trek VI as it was Trek II – Looming peace with Romulans, Ship that can fire when cloaked, end battle with multiple ships
TOS only got one – TUC…..the classic series didnt have much of a send off with Shatners hysterics and nail filing in Turnabout Inturder… (”if only….”)
so all you TNG fans crying out for a better send off – youve already had TWO!…AND your about to get another one (sort of) with Star Trek : Countdown – what looks to be a passing of the torch BACK to TOS – a nice reverse of Generations – oddly poetic…Shatner clumsily ‘passed the torch’ to TNG in GEN…..Nimoy passes it back to TOS in the new comic/movie.
(*side note* – actually if you think about it, was the passing of the torch really neccesary in TNGs first film as Trek VI was quite sufficiant in that respect – peace with the klingons plot, Worf, Kirks end log referencing TNG – ‘another crew’ & ‘where no one…has gone before…’ plus Nimoy appearing in the appropriatley titled Unification – so a further passing of the torch movie wasnt really required)
Ok ‘All Good Things’ is coming to an end now with the card game scene right at the end and Riker says something that could be applied to the new movie regarding the ever problematic subject of canon….I’ll leave you to see if you can recall what it was he said……
146. screaming satellite
Yeah, I can remember Riker’s remark. And it’s very apt!
Hopefully Spock Prime will leave a few notes about the place like: ‘Jim! Raise your shields, idiot, it’s KHAAAAAAN!’ in TWOK and ‘Spock, take Jim out for a beer the night before the Enterprise-B’s launch and get him so drunk he misses the launch ceremony!’ ;)
Frakes needs to hit the gym for a year – and then they can launch a grittier Titan show.
Keep TOS story and characters on the big screen. Let TNG era have television – where it thrives.
Fans want it. It could be done really, really well.
I wouldn’t mind writing a TNG mini.
I had this great idea once, about Data and the Guardian of Forever and Tasha and the Romulans and ….
wait. Didn’t Peter David steal that idea?
I agree that it’s a long shot for TNG to come back in any form, but as we are all fond of quoting here: “There are always possibilies.”
And Genie Francis could be a Deltan ambassador!
Frakes. I love that guy!
^
It would be cool if Paramount put out a statement that basically says, ” if Star Trek 11 ‘does real well’ we will also consider a Next Gen film to run concurrently,,, with then Star Trek 12,,,
“Mr Worf ,,,,,,,,, Fire,,,,!”
woo-hoo! 150 posts and no cannon!
Im tired of seeing all of these anti TNG comments like TNG is over, done, through, or it was cold, etc. Honestly, I was never a TOS fan, never, but Im trying to keep an open mind about this movie and what it could bring. Isnt star trek supposed to be about embracing diversity? Or is that just some little silly TNG idea…
I get a kick out of Jonathan Frakes’ hair every time. It always looks like it has been grabbed and grabbed by a small child and stayed like that.
I found it interesting that Patrick Stewart said that he’d be interested in doing more TNG… If so, cool! But I thought at one point he had said that he was done?
152. Will H.
‘Im tired of seeing all of these anti TNG comments like TNG is over, done, through, or it was cold, etc.’
I know, but, with a Trek relaunch on the way, a lot of us really want a clean break from the Berman years.
‘Honestly, I was never a TOS fan, never, but Im trying to keep an open mind about this movie and what it could bring.’
That’s good. Sadly the majority of bashers of the new film are Berman-Trek fanatics.
‘Isnt star trek supposed to be about embracing diversity?’
Classic Trek wasn’t so much about embracing diversity, as being so chilled out about it that no one noticed. What made things bull-in-a-chinashop overt was the introduction of IDIC during season three, which was simply a way for Lincoln Enterprises to sell tacky hippy medals (it was 1969, y’know!)
‘Or is that just some little silly TNG idea…’
TNG lacked the subtlety to let the audience figure things out: it had to bash us over the head with it and lecture us!
92, 106: No doubt about it. He’s approaching Shatner fast.
@154
Yes, he did say it back in 2006. Back then, after Enterprise cancellation, the failure of Nemesis, etc., the future of Star Trek looked bleak. It was written in some article where he mentioned going back to the Shakespearean theatre pieces. There, however, he said he had “mixed feelings” about Star Trek, but he said “I haven’t ruled it out”.
Guess he changed his mind after all the hype of this new movie.
I kinda understand the frustration of some TOS fans for all these years without new TOS-related material, and the whole fuzz about Berman in control, etc. However, TNG is not dead. And saying it is dead won’t really make it dead.
TNG brought a whole new wave of fans to the franchise, which undeniably helped it by giving Paramount a whole load of cash. If it weren’t for TNG, we probably wouldn’t even have this new movie.
Just like the new movie is aiming to “reinvigorate” the franchise, I believe that a TNG with some modern modifications would work well too.
It’s all a matter of opinion. If one thinks TNG was not good, I bet there are thousands of people who’d disagree with him, and vice-versa.
Star Trek : The Three Eras
=====================
1. Gene Roddenberry Era : TOS / TAS / TMP – TUC
(Ended on high note)
2. Rick Berman Era : TNG / DS9 / VOY / ENT / GEN – NEM
(Ended on low note)
3. J. J. Abrams Era : Star Trek (2009)
(Hasn’t even started yet)
======================
That clear to folks ?
158. Lt. Barclay: ‘I kinda understand the frustration of some TOS fans for all these years without new TOS-related material, and the whole fuzz about Berman in control, etc. However, TNG is not dead. And saying it is dead won’t really make it dead.’
I think we can safely say it’s the preserve of novels and comicbooks for now. As a movie franchise, it’s stone cold and there will be too many legal hassles with restarting TNG on TV now. Plus, the ‘To Oldly Go’ joke now applies to TNG.
‘TNG brought a whole new wave of fans to the franchise, which undeniably helped it by giving Paramount a whole load of cash. If it weren’t for TNG, we probably wouldn’t even have this new movie.’
No it didn’t. It brought fans to itself on its own merit and in many ways trampled all over TOS while doing so. What little reference to TOS there is in TNG is invariably revisionist and patronising because, y’know, TNG was supposed to be the ‘Second Coming’ and thought it made TOS, with its high drama and sex and fistfights, look primitive!
TNG was created by Rodders to regain control of Star Trek. Then he and his legal team basically screwed over numerous people like Robert Justman and David Gerrold to keep control of it! Read David Gerrold’s novelisation of Encounter at Farpoint and you’ll realise how much more interesting TNG could have been had his ideas been realised (Gerrold, of course, was far more the father of TNG than people give him credit for!) Also read the desperately sad account in ‘Inside Star Trek’ of how Justman was driven to leave TNG and couldn’t bring himself to tell Roddenberry why!
‘Just like the new movie is aiming to “reinvigorate” the franchise, I believe that a TNG with some modern modifications would work well too.’
Only if you recast and threw most of the TNG TV universe’s background in the dustbin! We don’t live in a world where we can relate to hippy-dippy types with psychotherapists on the bridge, who walk around pastel sets with permanent gormless smiles on their faces being nice to each other. Our world has become infinitely more messed up since Rodders and his utiopian dream died. If a Deanna Troi-type walked up to people in the 2000s and told us to express our emotions, we’d probably smack her in the gob! ;)
TOS, with its Cold War sensibilities, has far more in common with the present day than TNG’s naive platitudes. The arrogant, gormless naivety in our society that TNG mirrored is why we live in such a dangerous world today!
‘It’s all a matter of opinion. If one thinks TNG was not good, I bet there are thousands of people who’d disagree with him, and vice-versa.’
In the world, right now, very few people give a damn about any Star Trek either way. If neo-Trek succeeds, TNG will be a footnote, ignored outside the geek sphere within a decade!
159: Correction:
1. Roddenberry era: TOS/TAS/TMP-TUC/TNG (partly)
2. Berman era: TNG (partly) /…
159. Woulfe ‘Star Trek : The Three Eras’
I’d beg to differ. I’d say four eras.
=====================
1. Gene Roddenberry Era : TOS / TAS / TMP
(Ended on an uncertain note, creatively iffy, box office good)
2. The Bennet/Meyer Nimoy Era: TWOK-TUC
(Ended on a high note, creatively good, box office iffy)
3. Gene Roddenberry/Rick Berman Era : TNG / DS9 / VOY / ENT / GEN – NEM (Ended on a dismal note)
4. J. J. Abrams Era : Star Trek (2009)
(Hasn’t even started yet)
@ 160 Dom -
“TNG will be a footnote, ignored outside the geek sphere within a decade!”
Only in your dreams, pal.
#159 Woulfe ‘Star Trek : The Three Eras’
I completely disagree.
Gene Roddenberry Star Trek created era: 1966 – present
It’s all Star Trek folks. Period. You like some, you leave some.
Look at the total package and it’s been a good ride. Nothing to be ashamed about.
163. DJ Neelix
Think about how popular TNG is now. It runs on loop on minor networks as good filler, but how much is it really referenced in the mainstream now? Only fanboys really give two hoots about it. Many channels happily saw Enterprise ditched to run tarted up versions of TOS.
A TOS-based film will come out and refocus on the original crew and all the marketing will follow suit. Expect literary spin-offs from Neo-Trek to push all the other Trek books off the shelves of Waterstones. There will be new, young fans and they won’t care much about a tired 80s TV show with a different crew!
TNG and its cohorts will inevitably become the reserve of fanboys and their DVD collections. Quite honestly, the same fate may await TOS itself, although it has the advantage of being available for broadcast on HD networks and . . . ahem . . . next generation video formats such as Blu-ray!
164. AdamTrek: ‘Gene Roddenberry Star Trek created era: 1966 – present. It’s all Star Trek folks. Period. You like some, you leave some.’
I completely disgree. Gene Roddenberry created Star Trek TOS (1966-69). Everything else is a spin-off. TNG, especially, is a completely different show from Star Trek that simply used the Trek name and referenced Trek designs and institutions to get sold. Otherwise the two are chalk and cheese!
RE: !65 – Dom – December 6, 2008
“I completely disgree. Gene Roddenberry created Star Trek TOS (1966-69). Everything else is a spin-off. TNG, especially, is a completely different show from Star Trek that simply used the Trek name and referenced Trek designs and institutions to get sold. Otherwise the two are chalk and cheese!”
The FACTS are simply working against you here. Gene Roddenberry created Star Trek: The Next Generation. He was heavily involved in the first and second seasons. In the third season, Michael Piller became head writer, and Gene Roddenberry took less of an active role, with Piller and Berman becoming the executive producers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation
I wouldn’t mind seeing a Star Trek: Titan television show, especially if Ron Moore had anything to do with it.
i would love to see the TNG : Jon and Patrick again, once more.
so it isn’t the end of TNG, it just began again. And i hope that both Jon and Patrick make STAR TREK XII or XIII who knows what the film numeral it would be. Good luck Jon and Patrick. Peace and Long Life.
To # 165 : – Tng is a show much above TOS ..and it was created by G.R…
166. TOS Enterprise
Dude, don’t throw Wikipedia at me! It’s the fanboy’s equivelent of a Biblebasher picking quotes out of the Revelation of John!
Rodders never sold another show after Star Trek. He had one or two ideas for space-based shows, which went nowhere. Indeed, no shows based on his ideas beyond Star Trek saw production until after he died when his estate tried to make his name into a brand.
When a revival of Trek on TV in the mid-1980s was considered, the studio approached everyone imaginable, including Harve Bennett and Leonard Nimoy. No one wanted to touch it.
Eventually, they went to Gene Roddenberry.
What Rodders cobbled together was a mishmash of elements from another sci-fi show idea (called Starship, IIRC), the original Star Trek Phase II (which would have been a dismal series!), TMP, The Cage and The Questor Tapes.
David Gerrold then gave the idea shape when he Star Trek-ised the various disparate concepts by writing the series bible.
So we got an older Pike . . . I mean Picard and Questor . . . I mean Data on the Enterprise.
Gerrold’s treatment for the show was much more TOS in tone, but there was a big fallout and Gerrold left and has never been given the credit he deserves for his work on TNG. Read his novelisation of Encounter at Farpoint and mourn the cool 24th Century continuation of Star Trek that we never saw! The cold, fascist utopia that TNG is set in was Roddenberry’s, but it wasn’t Star Trek’s.
Roddenberry effectively created a different show, then bolted Star Trek elements on to it. Ron Moore spotted that right away and most Trek writers had to battle to make anything vaguely like Star Trek.
But is TNG Star Trek? In name perhaps, but philosophically and content-wise, not really. It’s a good sci-fi show that’s had some great moments, but because of it’s cobbled-together, self-conflicted nature, it could never really decide whether it was a spin-off of Star Trek or something else.
That identity crisis became most obvious when it went to the cinema, meaning it couldn’t use its TV ensemble style of storytelling and had no choice but to revert to a watered down TOS. The audience got wise pretty fast and, after enjoying a a cool zombie film with the TNG characters (which wasn’t so much a Star Trek film as Night of the Living Dead on the Enterprise), a smaller audience saw Insurrection, shrugged and stopped caring!
169. Yeah pal, come up with a decent argument and discuss it with me rather than stamp your feet. Good night and don’t wet the bed! :p
Re: Dom
Hey “Pal” the fact remains you said Gene had nothing to do with TNG and you’re wrong. Star Trek: The Next Generation was created by Gene Roddenberry. I never disputed anyone else’s involvement because I was commenting on your comment which only mentioned GR. We can talk about how DC Fontana and David Gerrold got screwed by GR but that was not the issue of your initial comment. I wasn’t stamping my feet, as I was stating a fact that you got wrong. The only feet stamping I see are yours in your rather aggressive attack-like response to me.
- I’m watching tng every day and i still like this show…i like to see mr. Worf’s hair growing from an episode to another …I like to see Riker become more mature…it’s a decent sci-fi show..
172. No I didn’t say Roddenberry wasn’t involved in TNG! I’ve never said that!
What I said was: ‘TNG, especially, is a completely different show from Star Trek that simply used the Trek name and referenced Trek designs and institutions to get sold.’ No reference to the creator at all. Frankly it doesn’t matter whether Rodders created it or not: it was still a completely different show!
By the way, the ‘pal’ bit was at post ***169*** Charlie Jade 2020, not you, unless you’re Charlie Jade as well! ;)
TOS Enterprise.
Listen dude! Sorry about the misunderstanding and you thinking I was knocking you!
Gotta dash and go to a party (first of the Xmas season!)
Talk soon. All the best, Dom :)
Poor Brent Spiner- all those years playing the character and the best send-off they can give him is a lame ‘goodbye’ to an already beamed-out Picard?
145 Dom
Well before you comment on someone’s original post that was a direct reply to another one perhaps you should read the CONTEXT of the post. Pike is a throwaway character in this movie, people will not remember him (oh the other guy before Kirk stepped in) beyond the scope of the movie. Clearly the fact that you toss something like DS9 aside, which had some of the best writing in Star Trek shows how little attention YOU paid to the series. Regardless you won’t see it any other way but your own so I guess that makes you the “mad” one.
As I said before, TNG has its fans. And they’re not like one or two. MANY casual fans got to know Star Trek through TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT (yes! even ENT), which could all be called “TNG setting”. Were these series mishandled by Berman and co. in certain aspects? Yes. But it doesn’t make them “dead” and it doesn’t make their legacy any less important, or less worth being explored.
Of course, as this site is primarily directed to work as a news feed for the new movie, we do see a lot of TOS-only fans around here. Most people are really excited about this new movie, especially because it is set on this specific time period, making things different and interesting, etc. That’s good. You may like TOS all you want.
But if one likes TOS and thinks everything else is a cheap rip off, a stupid idea, outdated series, a Frankenstein of the original concept, whatever… it’s not his right to tell everyone who actually likes “non-TOS material” and wants to see at least a proper send-off to the TNG, that they’re wrong.
Let’s say this new movie does not mimic the “ideal” concept of TOS for some, but still brings in a lot of fans to the franchise and keep it alive. What should we do? Shall we cry out loud and tell these new fans that they like a show that is a total disrespect of the original content, that it philosophically sucks, that it pretends to be something it isn’t? Let’s say the world changes in 15 years and by then the whole Star Trek XI concept is “outdated”. Should we tell these fans who came to know the franchise through the movie that anything new about it would be totally out of place? That they came to know Star Trek through a piece of crap of a movie?
That’s the same thing that seems to be happening here. And well… one could say the same about TOS. It’s “outdated”. Many concepts there may or may not work for us now or in the future. But you see, no one here is bashing TOS. Most people respect it for the legacy it’s given us, and the same should be said of TNG, and every other series and movies. All of them have contributed somehow in a good way for the franchise.
Sorry if it doesn’t sound very friendly, it’s not my intention to be aggressive or anything. No offense intended, but… well, everyone has an opinion. And after seeing many here bash TNG, I just had to defend it :)
I don’t think it would work to introduce a completely new cast in conjunction with an unfamiliar setting for a Trek movie. If there is anything Trek fans want, it is the familiar. Many fans simply didn’t like VOY and DS9 because it wasn’t on the Enterprise. “Titan” might work as a tv show, but it certainly wouldn’t work as a movie, because it would only attract a small amount of the fanbase.
Is it “possible” we could see a TNG era movie? Yes. Is is “probable?” No.
{Obviously my character has been promoted and has his own ship and is married, so we’ve toyed with the idea of a sitcom and an opera. There are a lot of spaghettis that have been thrown up on the wall.
iF: A half hour?
FRAKES: THE RIKERS IN SPACE and their wacky uncle Data and their little dog Worf. [laughs]
iF: Did you have conversations with Paramount about this.
FRAKES: No, I had conversations with Marina about this. }
See, now this is exactly my dream idea: a 24/7 Trek network, with all the shows PLUS original programming spanning any and every genre a concept could be placed in. Some shows could place the viewer directly in a ‘Trek universe, like, say a ‘60 Minutes’ or an entertainment news show, even a twist on Data’s theatrical presentations: Shakespeare in the original Klingon or West Side Story with Gorns and Halkans….
And on the other hand, shows based in the universe but with a solid 4th wall: how about a ‘Seinfeld’ or ‘Friends,’ even an ‘Office’ featuring the unsung bean-counters of Starfleet…
And yeah, gotta have an expanded version of the Kirk & Spock variety show as envisioned by MadTV so long ago…
Someone get me to Jonathan Frakes, please….
@180
Great idea!
I especially like the idea of a news program where they could mock the recent real world news and turn it into a “Trek perspective” in the Trek universe, about the Federation interaction with Klingons, elections in the Federation colonies, etc.
Also, an interview show with controversial characters from different races. It could be made as a general network, not so much centered in a Starfleet universe, with, say… a Cardassian documentary about the Federation. Heck, we could even have Romulan (propaganda) infomercials!
178. Lt. Barclay
“Most people respect it for the legacy it’s given us, and the same should be said of TNG, and every other series and movies. All of them have contributed somehow in a good way for the franchise.”
_________
I’m in total agreement. As much as I love TOS, I’ve found things to like in ALL of the shows and movies (yes, even ENT and Nemesis). They’ve all had their ups and downs, but they’ve all contributed important elements to the complex and rich tapestry that is Star Trek.
There’s more good stuff than there is bad. That’s why I’ve been able to enjoy it for decades. And hopefully decades to come.
181 – if one could get the late late night/early early morning infomercial people to produce actual ads for actual products, but with a ‘Trek setting, it could work – it’s all about getting ad revenue…. put Chuck Norris in a weird nose and paint him purple… sell those 300-year old oldies song compilations…. have some Orions and Deltans sell makeup…
(if anyone hears of plans for this actually being discussed as an actual thing, remember me… the Michael Nesmith of ‘TTV’ ;)
Bring on another TNG movie, Star Trek should move forward not be rebooted!!!!
177. Andros – Pike is a throwaway character in this movie
No he isn’t: it’s been stated that he has a substantial role in the film and is effectively a father figure to Kirk. The Pike idea was thrown out as an example anyway. I’m not in the habit of making demands!
‘People will not remember him (oh the other guy before Kirk stepped in) beyond the scope of the movie.’
Well, at least they’ll have seen him! Most people have never heard of Sisko!
‘Clearly the fact that you toss something like DS9 aside, which had some of the best writing in Star Trek shows how little attention YOU paid to the series.’
You misunderstand: I’m coming at this from a marketing angle. Joe Public, that the new film is aimed at, never watched DS9. The ten-year-olds who are going to see the new Trek film weren’t even born when DS9 ended!
I re-iterate: in the trailer for the new film, suppose it was a black kid who climbed out of the ravine and declared himself to be Benjamin Sisko. The audience would say: ‘Who?’
‘Regardless you won’t see it any other way but your own so I guess that makes you the “mad” one.’
No, I’m just a realist. DS9 and TNG were perfectly serviceable TV shows and I’m a big fan of Ron Moore, even tthough he wrote the steaming pile that was Generations. The new Battlestar Galactica is a razor-sharp (pun semi-intended!) dissection of Star Trek: Voyager, for example! DS9 did have some good writing in it, but since Joe Public hasn’t watched it and, now, probably never will, who cares?
Ten years after DS9 ended and 15 after the TNG gang packed up their bags and headed for the theatres, what pop-culture allure they had has gone. And the TNG cast were getting a bit long in the tooth even in Nemesis! No one’s stopping you from reading your comics or novels, but any spin-off of Trek, now, sensibly would come from the new film, especially if it crosses over into the mainstream as they hope!
178. Lt. Barclay
‘As I said before, TNG has its fans.’
Unquestionably.
‘But it doesn’t make them “dead” and it doesn’t make their legacy any less important, or less worth being explored.’
Realistically, they’re ‘dead’ beyond books and comics right now. For the small number of people out there that like reading comics and books based on TV shows, they have them. But would Paramount spend £200 million on them right now? Not likely!
‘But if one likes TOS and thinks everything else is a cheap rip off, a stupid idea, outdated series, a Frankenstein of the original concept, whatever… it’s not his right to tell everyone who actually likes “non-TOS material” and wants to see at least a proper send-off to the TNG, that they’re wrong.’
They’re not wrong. They’re just not gonna get one. Thank Ricky-boy for that, don’t blame me! I’m talking purely in terms of marketing a product, not its artistic worth! TNG wasn’t a stupid series, but elements such as a big-boobed psychotherapist on the bridge of a Starship was as goofy as having a precocious kid on the bridge. TOS avoided that cliche at least!
‘Let’s say the world changes in 15 years and by then the whole Star Trek XI concept is “outdated”. Should we tell these fans who came to know the franchise through the movie that anything new about it would be totally out of place? That they came to know Star Trek through a piece of crap of a movie?’
They should accept that the idea has had its time and move on! At least, that’s what I’d do!
‘That’s the same thing that seems to be happening here.’
Yep!
‘And well… one could say the same about TOS. It’s “outdated”. Many concepts there may or may not work for us now or in the future.’
Of course that’s the case, hence Star Trek: Remastered and the new film overhauling the franchise.
‘But you see, no one here is bashing TOS. Most people respect it for the legacy it’s given us, and the same should be said of TNG, and every other series and movies. All of them have contributed somehow in a good way for the franchise.’
TNG fans had a whale of a time slagging of TOS in the 90s. The shows treated TOS with the utmost patronising disrespect. Hence most TOS fans went away . . . until season four of Enterprise! ;)
‘Sorry if it doesn’t sound very friendly, it’s not my intention to be aggressive or anything. No offense intended, but… well, everyone has an opinion. And after seeing many here bash TNG, I just had to defend it :)’
It’s cool! Peace out! :) I might argue a lot of stuff and say a number of controversial things, but at least I reply, eh?
@186 haha, well, thanks for the answer. Our discussion would probably go on forever, since it doesn’t seem any of us will change our opinion ;)
Yeah, I do tend to agree that after the failure of Nemesis/ENT we won’t see loads of cash immediately being poured in the same vein, from a commercial perspective. I do believe, however, that it may happen in the future, after (and if) this movie is successful.
I understand that for people in the USA, Spock and Kirk are a cultural icon at least vaguely known by the general public, hence the choice for a new movie aiming for a larger audience to bring more cash to the franchise.
However, I believe that bothin the US and elsewhere, TNG still has a large fanbase and in some parts of the world (Europe, for example) it is even more widely recognisable and appreciated than TOS. This, of course, is worth exploring for the benefit of the powers that be, even if it means some low-budget productions.
So, I’ll keep waiting for something new TNG-wise to come hopefully soon! If you TOS-folks have waited for decades, I guess I can wait too :)
Let’s hope the new movie brings us future productions that everyone is able to enjoy!
Cheers!
187. Lt. Barclay
‘I understand that for people in the USA, Spock and Kirk are a cultural icon at least vaguely known by the general public’
I’d say they’re pretty much known globally, even if only as American cultural icons with all the baggage that entails!
‘TNG still has a large fanbase and in some parts of the world (Europe, for example) it is even more widely recognisable and appreciated than TOS.’
That’s partly down to distribution and dubbing. Also, have you seen much European TV down the years? My God! The number of TV shows that are just talking heads!!! :0 No wonder TNG with its more talky nature did well, although I detest dubbing! ;)
Unfortunately, and often to my deep frustration, financially, the US studios are only really interested in a domestic take and the rest of the world is a bonus!
Look at Starship Troopers. The rest of the world certainly got the joke, hence its takings were good, globally, but it tanked in the US where people took it seriously! Hence Troopers only exists as a straight-to-DVD series!
Similarly, The X-Files: I Want to Believe, for all the whinging of certain people, made its money back and considerably more, globally, yet people are talking about the series being dead because it didn’t do well in the US.
The thing is, when this new Trek film comes out, TOS is officially dead as well. There’s a new series of films with new actors and new continuity. But TOS itself will become the preserve of comics, novels and fan films. We’re not likely to see any of the original cast in Trek again, hence the Bring Back Shatner malarkey! I’m fine with that. Like I say, when a thing has its time, I’m happy to move on.
When Star Trek VI came out, I had no issues with them calling it a day. I actually watched all of TNG on its first run and sometimes really liked it, even if it did limit the scope of what they could do in the TOS films. Generations ruined the end of STVI for a lot of us and cost the TNG films a lot of good will, I’m afraid. It was a polarizing moment.
Having got some form of TOS back to make up for the disgrace that was Generations, I think a lot of us would be leery of having a future Trek return that will handcuff a new film series. As Dennis Bailey said elsewhere and I agree with him, I wouldn’t mind if they simply cut all ties between the TV and film versions of Star Trek. Let them run separately with their own continuity and throw in a cartoon series as well!
Ironically it’s the TNG fans who are most likely to be vocal about that!
If this new movie bombs, I personally will start a “bring back Frakes” effort.
Why?
He did a great job with First Contact – Box office smash. Insurrection was a quality movie. Not as good B.O. wise, but still a good movie that has held up over time. Best part was it kept in the Trek tradition of having a social message.
Then what happened? Studio “greed”-o’s said “we need more money. Let’s bring in that Gladiator guy and get rid of Frakes”. The result? A horrible movie, with a terrible script, aweful dialoge and one of the most blatant continuity errors in Trek history (Remember the scene where Picard and Crusher are looking at what is a picture of Tom Hardy as supposedly a young Picard — and he was BALD? !?! Every Trekker knows that Picard LOST his hair over time.)
The more I see what’s going on with this new movie makes me think that we are headed for another Nemesis. Another director unconnected with Trek imposing his “divine will “. Some evidence may be the new enterprise. Why not keep it the same with just more detail? On the big screen there is plenty that could have been done without changing the ship — including the bridge –so drastically.
We’ll see.
Meanwhile I’ll be searching for domain names, just in case…
189. Mr.”Why does Paramount keep screwing with Trek”
‘If this new movie bombs, I personally will start a “bring back Frakes” effort.’
Why?
‘Why?’
Yes why?! ;)
‘He did a great job with First Contact – Box office smash.’
Not a smash exactly. Smashing film, given its budget! A Star trek zombie movie! Cool!
‘Insurrection was a quality movie.’
Insurrection was a quality TV movie.
‘Then what happened? Studio “greed”-o’s said “we need more money. Let’s bring in that Gladiator guy and get rid of Frakes”.’
I think it was more that JF took a bit of a break and he was on a much tighter Berman leash for Insurrection.
‘The result? A horrible movie, with a terrible script, aweful dialoge and one of the most blatant continuity errors in Trek history (Remember the scene where Picard and Crusher are looking at what is a picture of Tom Hardy as supposedly a young Picard — and he was BALD? !?! Every Trekker knows that Picard LOST his hair over time.)’
I think the bald thing is overdone. Mainstream viewers wouldn’t know or care, but it was an unnecessary niggle that could have been avoided, just as the mindrape thing had been done before in TNG.
‘The more I see what’s going on with this new movie makes me think that we are headed for another Nemesis. Another director unconnected with Trek imposing his “divine will “.’
Um . . . no. Not to say JJ and his teams aren’t Gods!
‘Some evidence may be the new enterprise. Why not keep it the same with just more detail?’
Because its a film made in 2008, not 1968!
‘On the big screen there is plenty that could have been done without changing the ship — including the bridge –so drastically.’
We’ll see.
‘We’ll see.’
Yes, we’ll see!
‘Meanwhile I’ll be searching for domain names, just in case…’
Plenty of ‘em out there! http://www.dont frakeitup.com, perhaps? ;)
re 9 & 15 (Bumblebee & Ballz)
Darth, having sold off the props, sets and other stuff, no way inhibits the studios ability to dip back into the TNG era well at all. I’d love to see if. As Mr. Frakes said, if the new movie does well, a whole bunch of doors open, and the potential at least exists. I would love to see something.
Bumblebee, … If there is any chance of seeing some new stuff, I wouldn’t for a moment expect that Shatner & Nimoy would be affordable for that ride. Let’s at least dream with one eye towards reality.
Doug L.
re 29 Dennis Bailey,
Exactly right, door is open if the movie is a success.
I for one would prefer to see Trek on TV reinvented as miniseries, ala Stephen King’s the Shining or the Stand. This format would give the story and actors more meat, than either episodic TV or a 2 hour movie would allow.
I’ve always wondered why this course hasn’t been pursued yet.
Doug L.
Trek is a universe. It works on a number of levels, in a number of time periods, and with any number of characters and is perfectly viable as a franchise going forward.
Trek’s commercial failure at the very end had nothing to do with the property itself, it had to do with oversaturation, and the sheer mediocrity of what was being released. When you get to a point where even the hard core fans find it difficult to watch then you’ve got nothing left.
JJ Abrams has it right. Jonathon Frakes is also right. Dennis Bailey is right and a number of others. The future of Trek comes in rethinking it, making it good, and making it relevant. That requires good stories, good story-telling, and good marketing.
Make it so. Doug L.
Startrek was never NOT relevant. In fact some of its most relevant episodes were during the Next generation Era. But of course I understand the dialectical semantics intended when one says ‘relevant’ in reference to ‘modern trek’ What they are talking about, invariably, is a trendification of trek in todays sex and action dominated market. That pretty much makes it market relevant but socially irrelevant. That said, and this can never be over-emphasized, The next generation garnered more viewer ship than ANY other trek before or since. And it did it by being socially ‘relevant’ as opposed to sucking up to market trends.
‘Similarly, The X-Files: I Want to Believe, for all the whinging of certain people, made its money back and considerably more, globally, yet people are talking about the series being dead because it didn’t do well in the US.’
That is because there is little appreciation for cerebral films in todays U.S market. I think part of what made the next generation so succesful was its global fandom, as opposed to merely those in the U.S. The global fandom of the late 90s was really responsible even for the relative success of voyager and deep space 9. I think trek really should be geared at pleasing a global market as opposed to a specifically american one. After all its initial appeal IS global. And that was heightened with the ever extended global themes portrayed in tng. Bring back those themes, and do away and kill the trends. Trendifying trek only alienates many global fans.
Databrain,
Not entirely sure if you’re refuting me or agreeing with me but regarding relevance, I am speaking of social and political relevance in a general sense.
classic trek focusing on hippies, or the removal of Spock’s Brain, doesn’t gel with todays audience say in the same way the new Galactica is connecting. The new Galactica also connected in ways that Enterprise couldn’t. Ultimately Enterprise was a weak show that didn’t bring in a new audience.
So if you read my whole post, I was referring to the very end of Trek, the last couple movies and Enterprise and even Voyager to some extent lost their edge, their relevance to anything other than refering back to Trek.
I believe people are craving MORE depth, more story, and more character than most of the schlock out there.
I didn’t see “I want to believe” but based on your comments, I’m hoping it will be better than I had heard.
Doug L.
195. Databrain and 196. Doug L:
It depends on what you expect from a film. The X-Files was always a heady blend of schlock, humour, paranoia and intelligent discussion. The X-Files: I Want to believe is a great little film, although, unfortunately I can understand why people were disappointed. Moives carry different expectations from TV shows, especially when TV shows are already so cinematic!
Similarly, I expect Star Trek to be a mix of action, adventure, sex, violence and philosophy. For a movie, though, I expect action, adventure, sex and violence upfront. The philosophy should be kept to a theme and a couple of discussions.
TNG got away with more talk on television, but I actually felt they spent far too much time on the very boringly-designed and -lit Enterprise-D having philosophical debates when they could have been visiting exotic planets, having a couple of fistfights and bonking some green-skinned lovelies as well.
Dom,
Yes, I agree with you. As for Galactica, I think they went a little too far in one direction, and the show lacks a sense of fun. The characters are so dark and tormented that it’s hard to like them. But I’m still a fan.
Enterprise seemed to try to hard to be something, though it didn’t know what that something was, and it showed. As most seem to agree it started to develop in it’s 4th season, but like I mentioned it’s relevance was in being nostalgic and digging through Trek Lore as much as anything else. I enjoyed the 4th season generally, but still found it to be a pretty mediocre show.
As much as I’m a fan of Trek and Canon and nostalgia, they seem to be approaching the movie with the right blend of all you mention in your post, and a healthy nod to what’s gone on before.
I’m excited to see it.
Doug L.
198. Doug L.
Yeah it’s the difference between making a Star Trek movie and making a movie about Star Trek, if you get my meaning!
Dom said:
‘Similarly, I expect Star Trek to be a mix of action, adventure, sex, violence and philosophy.’
The fact that you placed ‘action’ first and ‘philosophy’ last, shows me who you work for.
‘For a movie, though, I expect action, adventure, sex and violence upfront.’
Star Trek never provided this, why did you not flock to myriad other film genres to get these qualities? There are hundreds, probably thousands of films out there that provide just these elements and in this specific order. Why do you want them from star trek when you can get them from so many other places already?
‘The philosophy should be kept to a theme and a couple of discussions.’
No it shouldn’t. And that is why enterprise and nemesis both failed. The philosophy took a back seat to the ‘action’ element.
‘TNG got away with more talk on television, but I actually felt they spent far too much time on the very boringly-designed and -lit Enterprise-D having philosophical debates when they could have been visiting exotic planets, having a couple of fistfights and bonking some green-skinned lovelies as well.’
And yet it still garnered more viewer-ship than all trek before or since. Despite your predilection for ‘action adventure’ infantility . Why? because the non-american foreign trek fandom supported this extension of the roddenberry vision of our potential future as much as, if not more, than american audiences did. Again, trek needs a global appeal more than an american appeal to get through to people. Kill the trendy elements and bring back the cerebral ones, period. Otherwise it’s just an american copy of a generic action film with treks label arbitrarily stamped on it.
Doug said:
‘classic trek focusing on hippies, or the removal of Spock’s Brain, doesn’t gel with todays audience say in the same way the new Galactica is connecting.’
Are you sure the new Galactica is connecting with foreign audiences as much as with american ones? Just curious, I haven’t checked the stats on that yet. The next generation garnered a lot more viewership than the original trek did during its original run. And it did so being a lot more geeky and ’socially relevant’ than anything on television in the late 80s/early 90s.
‘Ultimately Enterprise was a weak show that didn’t bring in a new audience.’
Because it basically stomped on canon and turned trek into everything else.
‘I didn’t see “I want to believe” but based on your comments, I’m hoping it will be better than I had heard.’
Well you know you live in a country (presumably america) where the average movie goer wants everything up front and not too difficult to grasp. So why base your assumption of good-bad on what anyone, let alone the majority of people, especially americans, think about it? It’s like basing what your diet should be on what a 400 pound guy who eats at mcdonalds twice a day thinks. And we all know how ‘popular’ the typical american fast-food diet is. Most action films are fast food for the brain. That is why they are not remembered.
Dom Said – No it shouldn’t. And that is why enterprise and nemesis both failed. The philosophy took a back seat to the ‘action’ element.
Well, I think they failed because they were simply bad. IMHO.
Regarding Galactica’s success overseas, I can’t really speak to that. But I still think my point stands. I guess I’d be curious to know how it does overthere as well.
Regarding “I want to believe” – I simply never made it out to see it when it was at the theater. My interest waned considerably when I heard largely mediocre reviews from friends and critics. I also was never a fan of the Scully/ Religion arc which is apparently explored here. But I still plan to rent it eventually.
BTW… I feel like you’re defending TNG for some reason. I’m a huge TNG fan. No bashing here.
Doug L.
re post 202…
That should read Databrain said… not Dom said. DL
[...] TrekMovie e [...]
If Jono can came back at his age to play Riker, I say-BRING IT ON!
I’d suggest a Titan movie, with the gang back on Frakes’s ship, or a movie about Captain LaForge.
i propose two more TNG movies a star trek titan series and a two part cross over with uss enterprise e uss titan uss voyager and ds9 another 10 years of tng and thats it for the tng series and in the next genration movie they bring back data like spock what they can do is that the remans beemed him out or he had a upgrade before he left with sheilds to protect him in the destroyed ship basicaly the remans could take him andbrain wash him and make him there leader of another scitar say there were 2 built and that the new refited enterprise e is the only ship big enough and powerful enough to take her down but before they destroy the ship they take data back to the enterprise where laforge work on him to get his memorys back from b4 which he download to him before he left the enterprise if me and frakes were incharge of the star trek lets just say genes scifi would not be wasted on a movie which should never of happed