Quinto Talks Star Trek Sequel + TrekMovie Looks At Big Sequel Questions August 22, 2009
by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Star Trek sequel (2012) , trackback
This week while he was helping "Save the Arcades" Zachary Quinto gave an update on his latest projects and also talked about the next Star Trek, including talking a little Shatner and Khan, but he appeared to be noting that the film is not in a hurry. Details below, plus some TrekMovie analysis on the decisions remaining for the Star Trek sequel.
Quinto: Nobody is in a hurry
Five months ago (before the release of Star Trek) Paramount commissioned the script for the Star Trek sequel. Since then producer (and possible director) JJ Abrams and the writers (Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof) have talked in generalities about what is next, but made it clear they are still in research and discussion mode. Now in an interview with SciFi wire from this week, the new Spock seems to suggest a bit of patience is required:
I know that they’re breaking the stories and working on it. J.J. [Abrams] and Bobby [Orci] and Alex [Kurtzman]. But I think those guys have other things that they’re working on. Star Trek is a priority, certainly, but I don’t think anybody’s in a hurry. Which is what I love about them. You know what I mean? Of course the fans and the studio would love it to come out next summer if it could. I think it’s going to be much better served by taking time and being clear about the story that they want to tell. Whether or not that involves Khan or Mr. Shatner remains to be seen.
Zach Quinto takes some time out to relax at an arcade
When? + who will direct?
Although much of the talk about the Star Trek sequel has been about the story, and how much it should be weighed between the new and the old (including Shatner and Khan), there are still some fundamental questions that have not been resolved. Two big decisions are if JJ Abrams will direct, and when will the film be released (and these questions are inter-related). The studio is keen to get the sequel out by the Summer of 2011, however that may not fit with Abrams schedule. JJ has many other projects on his plate, including co-producing Mission: Impossible: IV for 2011. Also Abrams seems reticent to jump into directing a second Trek film so soon. In his last TrekMovie interview, he made it clear he would like to change things up:
TrekMovie: Way before you decided to direct this movie you told me you wouldn’t make the decision to direct until you saw the script. I know it is presumptuous, but let’s assume a sequel happens. What will be your decision process will be to direct that one?
Abrams: I think that the dream version of any job is to chose the job because you love the job. And for me I have only directed two films and they are both films that are sequels to TV shows that Leonard Nimoy starred in. I would love to try and do something else. That is not to say that can’t do something else first and maybe come back and do the sequel to this. But I do honestly think that it is insane to think about a sequel when the first one hasn’t come out it. I pray people see the movie and I pray they like the film. And if there desire for another one, not only am I thrilled to produce that movie and help realize it, but I am wide open to the possibility of directing it. It is something I need to decide when we have discussions about the story…
So it is possible that the Star Trek sequel script gets handed in at the end of this year and JJ loves it and has nothing else on his plate and dives into pre-production in early 2010 to get the movie delivered by 2011. However, if Abrams ends up doing this "something else" next, then the studio may be left with a choice: Get a Star Trek sequel in the Summer of 2011 produced by Abrams, but directed by someone else, or wait until 2012 (or later) to get an Abrams-directed Star Trek sequel.
Of course this is like déjà vu all over again. Back in late 2006 and early 2007 all the Internet buzz was regarding if JJ Abrams would or would not direct the first Star Trek movie. We should probably expect the same kind of thing this time around.
Budget?
There is another fundamental question regarding the next Star Trek film, and that is the budget. The first film ended up costing around $145M (before marketing), which is typical for a summer tent pole, but the largest Trek budget ever. However the film was greenlit in early 2007 when things were different at Paramount, and they still had an investment partner on the film (Spyglass). Since then Paramount (and other studios) have cut back on production slates and they are also cutting back on spending as well. Just this week Paramount moved the release of the Leonardo DiCaprio movie Shutter Island from October 2009 to February 2010, citing a lack of funds to market and distribute the film (apparently they blew all their cast on Monsters vs Aliens, Star Trek, Transformers 2, and GI Joe). Studio Chief Brad Grey issued this statement
regarding the move:
Our 2009 slate was greenlit in a very different economic climate and as a result we must remain flexible and willing to recalibrate and adapt to a changing environment. This is a situation facing every single studio as we all work through the financial pressures associated with the broader downturn. Like every business, we must make difficult choices to maximize our overall success and to best manage Paramount’s business in a way that serves Viacom and its shareholders, while providing the film with every possible chance to succeed both creatively and financially.
So even though Star Trek is a hit movie and considered a success (grossing over $382.5M theatrically so far, with more big profits expected from home video this November), the economic climate could affect the budget of the next film. To be sure there are some built in cost-savings already as much of the design and set construction work will carry over. Also the main cast actors were all signed to 3 picture deals so they are not going to have a big bump into the budget. So in the end it would not be surprising if the studio asked Abrams to find a way to deliver the next Trek with the same or a little less cash. Of course Nicholas Meyer delivered what is seen as the best Star Trek film (Wrath of Khan) with just a fraction of the budget of the first film.
So Trek fans should maybe take a tip from Zach and relax and not be in a hurry. It seems fairly certain a Star Trek sequel will happen, but we are a ways off from knowing what shape it take.
One more thing: congrats Bob!
Bob Orci was certainly not working on the Star Trek sequel last night, as he was receiving his Imagen Award. Here is a photo of the event, with Bob and Jimmy Smits.
Bob Orci takes some time out to get an Imagen Award and hang with Jimmy Smits (Getty)
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Comments»
Leave Khan out of it and we should be just fine!
A sequel is a dish best served cold…..
And Anthony, check for typos. You got 3 at least.
Either Orci is really small or Smits is really big.
If I’m not mistaken, the budget shouldn’t be too much of an issue for the next film seeing as all the Federation costumes and Enterprises sets are already constructed. That right there takes out some of the cost of making the movie.
I agree, they should take their time, as they did with the first. Bob, I trust your judgement and artistic sensibilities.
“Of course Nicholas Meyer delivered what is seen as the best Star Trek film (Wrath of Khan) with just a fraction of the cost of the first film. ”
I would be very curious to see the results of a Trekmovie poll, what do fans like better, the new film or Wrath of Khan. Or perhaps a simple poll of best ST movie ever.
As for Abrams directing, I think he did a workman like, very competent job but he did not fully get the essence of Trek, and made it a bit too much like a generic blockbuster/Star Wars type film. In my opinion he departed a bit too much (not egregiously so) from Gene Roddenberry’s viewpoint. So I wouldn’t mind if he just produced and they found a director who really “gets” Star Trek.
As long as there’s enough money for a real engineering set next time, I’ll be happy.
Oh, and no Khan.
Its amazing that the new ST film can be called nothing other than a smashing success, and we’re already hearing the dreaded “BUDGET CUTS” lingo. What do we have to do to get some respect?
Lore
bear in mind that there is no decision yet. I was just pointing out that Paramount is not immune to the economy. There is cost cutting going on everywhere, and that MAY affect the next Star Trek. I am not saying that it is for sure.
Gary Seven
I did add a poll for favorite movie. We have done this before and I know TWOK came out on top, but that was before the new movie.
#7 Wrath of Khan – no contest.
The marketing should be cheaper next time as well since they have effectively re-branded the franchise.
I think the sequel will be disappointing if it is directed by anyone but Mr. Abrams (or at least, a small let down!). Leave the crew intact and do at least one more film before changing the principles, please!
They did a nearly perfect job with the last film, now give them a chance to really blow us away ( and I am not referring to Project Genesis)!
I think its good that they’re going to take their time, hopefully this time have fewer errors. As for the release date, I think 2012 is a bit much to wait, then again if the world ends that year it would be a good way for Star Trek to end. But seriously, I’d rather see it in 2011, and I think if that means someone else directing I’m fine with that. I honestly think it would be awesome if Frakes directed it with JJ producing. Frakes knows his stuff, he’s proved him self as a good director many times and he could bring in a voice for us Trekkies into the process. Doubt it would happen, but it would be awesome if it did.
@ #7 & #11
I take TWOK, First Contact and The Undiscovered Country before ST09.
@ #13
I would like to see J.J. direct, but the script is more important. With J.J. producing, we’d still get a quality product.
@ #14
Definitely a neat idea.
Not gonna happen.
I thought the directing was really good in the last film. It impressed me quite a lot, so I don’t know if I can see much of anyone else directing it other than Abrams.
The writing (not so much dialogue and character interaction; that was fine) and set design was impressive to me, but not as much as directing, special effects, acting, etc… But that’s already been quarreled over. :)
Shatner as Khan in STXII!
It’s boffo box office, Boobelah.
No, I just want to see how many aneurysms I can induce.
I hope Abrams produces the sequel, but I hope someone else directs it.
Between the lens flares, too-close shots of everything, and some bad emotional choices, Abrams’ inexperience as a film director shows. One really horrible bit of directing is the scene of Kirk offering to save Nero, Spock quipping about it, etc. I don’t mind Kirk blasting Nero, but I do hate the flippant humor of that scene. If played seriously, with the depth and drama it deserved, it would’ve been fine.
That’s not the actors, script, SFX, or anything else; it’s the director who makes choices like that. Abrams isn’t terrible (see George Lucas and Michael Bay for that), but he’s far from being a great director–yet.
So, please please please, no Abrams in the center seat! Please!!!!
because of yall i wanna see the Wrath of Khan. but i like the new movie too.
No Khan please in the sequel
I am adamant about this. there is more to Trek than Khan and the Borg
Coming in 2011, from the mind of JJ Abrams…
IN SEARCH OF: THE MOTION PICTURE!!!
I’m glad they don’t want to rush it. Otherwise they’ll end up with
STAR TREK: FULL THROTTLE, or STAR TREK: RELOADED, or THE LOST WORLD: STAR TREK
I for one don’t want this news series to suffer from the sophomore slump because they rushed a POS out to the theaters.
if the something else is dark tower then i can wait for more trek
Decloaking . ..
SHAT-KAHN the Next Generation! Spectacular CmdrR!
Recloaking. }:-D>
I also agree Kahn is a bad idea. Shatner might be good. I thought the new film was fine and good but it was by no means perfect. A new director might be a very good idea, on the other hand it could also end up much worse. They should be very careful who they pick.
As long as they don’t go for a borg storyline, and the Klingons are in some way involved in the main plot, I’ll be satisfied.
TARANTINO TO DIRECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lol, could you imagine…….?
Just take the time lads. Make it once again big as you did with the “first” one. Better quality than a fast new Trek.
STXII will come… as the Guinness slogan…
Good Things Come to Those Who Wait!
Please no Frakes, not to good of a track record, and Shatner, YES, Kahn NO
No Kahn please. The creative team needs to more creative than that, and they will be, I’m sure.
If Shatner is in it, he should play neo-Kirk’s grandfather, Tiberius, in a setup scene at the beginning or a send off scene at the end. The actor who played George Kirk even looks more like Shatner than Pine, so it would be a good fit to have Shatner play George Kirk’s father. Having Shatner play James T. Kirk in any capacity just would not work in the reboot Trek universe.
I have no problem with waiting three years instead of two for the next Trek movie. I’m just happy that there will likely be more Trek movies in the future. Might as well take the time to ensure each one is exceptional, so that the studio will want more Trek.
Who here would remember that Irwin Kershner directed the best of all ‘Star Wars’ films? Yay, Irwin!
Abrams can certainly manage another director as long as he has hands-on control as producer.
And no-one can say how quickly PP wants a sequel except the planners in that office. Not even Zack Quinto. A tentpole film wouldn’t be treated so casually.
And congrats, Bob! You’ve had a great year!
All I ask of the second film is a proper, on-screen, canon ending to the ‘Archer’s dog’ mini story. All that is needed is the smallest of small scenes near the beginning of the flick where a beagle materialises infront of someone or even better, is seen sitting in Kirks chair as he arrives on the bridge.
Frakes no – IMO, others may disagree. But I think the old Shat deserves one last ST movie. IMO, he is Captain James Kirk, always will be the definitive James T or D Kirk, depending or not u believe “Where no man has gone before”
Bring Back Kirk !!! The Shatner Kirk, and then the circle will be complete.
@ #7 nobody can truly quantify an entire franchise in one 2 hour movie.
Besides CAN anyone truly do an original story?
The entire franchise has covered everything: God-like entities, parallel universes, time-travel, revenge, racism, spy games, court martials, creating life, human/alien rights, war, politics, conspiracies, duels, kids, rapid aging, the prime directive, love, hate, death, life, playing god, disease, evolution, religion, resurrection,rivalries, family,exploration (which usually involves all-of-the-above), WMDs, space creatures …etc… it’s all been done.
The real challenge is using those themes to tell a GOOD story.
@ #11 & #15
Wrath of Khan, ST09, Undiscovered Country, Search for Spock, then First Contact for me.
Get Neill Blomkamp to direct!
#32 – And hopefully he doesn’t have a damn iguana pituitary gland!
#16, #29 -
Frakes would not be a bad choice. FC was a very well done Star Trek film. INS was well crafted and directed, the story/script was lacking. Can’t blame Frakes for that. Plus he “gets” Trek, IMHO.
I floated the idea a while back of dragging Nimoy further out of retirement and back into the directors chair. Who else to direct a StarTrek sequel? Who says lightening doesn’t strike twice? Besides, he could kill his character (Spock Prime) off AGAIN!!!
Sure, fanboy fantasies, but it’s fun! It should be a fun year or two for such fantasies.
#33 -
Fine. Show me a way to include an old, pudgy, Prime Kirk in the next film without using yet another time travel story, and I’m on board with you. There are other ways to include The Shat in the new film. But I highly doubt he, or you, would agree to such terms.
The writers are on record as saying they are done with time travel, at least that is my impression. The new films, rightly so, will focus on the “new” crew.
Fans probably like TWOK the best, but I think ST.09 is the best movie of the bunch.
But the director? I’ve been pondering that too. Bryan Singer who is a Star Trek fan would have been good, but he’s on the BSG movie now.
Guillermo Del Toro would do a good job, I think.
Steven Spielberg is the only one of the “old” directors I think who still has the sense of youthful exuberance the new Star Trek embodies, so he would be a great fit.
Jon Favreau comes to mind.
I DO know that I hope Nicholas Meyer isn’t approached. JJ’s sense of detail in ST.09 was beautiful, and Meyer totally lacks that sense. He’s a good writer, but as a director he doesn’t seem to care about verisimilitude. I watched “Time After Time” recently and that film has some of the worst special effects, and for a film that came out a couple years after Star Wars, and the same year as STTMP, it’s hard to get past how bad they are.
Imagine Star Trek in Quentin Tarantino’s hands. Boy that would be funny.
No Khan, please. Shatner? If it fits well. But ONLY if. I’d be fine to see a Star Trek movie without him. Heck, there were three without him, and one of them was fantabulous (FC, in my opinion).
And looks like, by the poll so far, TWOK is king. And, despite some rather negative reviews by fans that come to TM, ST09 comes in second. How ’bout that?
#37 :: That would be really quite interesting. Nimoy is a fabulous director, but the idea of dragging him “further out of retirement” is a little preposterous. ^^;
#34 :: You know, you’re absolutely right.
Or, they could just stop expanding Star Trek altogether.
..NOT. I would hate that. I’ve got at least 60-70 more years to be alive (that’d put me at about 86-96 xP) and I don’t want it all to end when I’m not even out of High School!
But, qué sera, sera.
#41 -
I agree, it’s a fanboy fantasy, but not as preposterous as you think. For his age, he is very vibrant and active. His focus now is photography, another visual art. And who knows Trek and understands it better than he?
I can dream, can’t I? ;-)
The Wrath of Khan, sure I get the love for that film. It has iconic space battles, classic lines and a tearjerker ending. But I have a very special place in my heart for The Undiscovered Country.
PLEASE – let Khan rest in peace!
I don’t mind them taking their time with a script – rushing it will me cut corners. Take your time and deliver a good story guys.
Oh.. and I am not opposed to having Shatner in there as a cameo.. but please… no Khan.. something original again like the first one.
If JJ passes,. Nick Meyer please!!
I hope they really do a Khan story. I want to see a fresh and exciting new take on an old character in this exciting new and fresh universe they opened to us.
After Khan, I want them to remake The Doomsday Machine! The original episode is so 60s. Pine and Quinto will make a much better job. And a story about a doomsday machine would be a refreshing and exciting new twist in this exciting new universe.
Would people prefer a mediocre original story or a kick-butt Khan story?
All those saying “no Khan” remind me of those saying “no Joker” after Batman Begins came out. We all saw how that turned out and how wrong they were. I think a great script with a great actor, directed with TLC could make a sequel with Khan the best one yet.
And then, when the trilogy is over, they should reboot again, and give new actors a chance, so that Pine, Quinto & the others can go on in their exciting career.
Oh, and no Shatner. We don’t need him anymore, especially after his antics towards the new film, not a class act like the rest of the cast.
And I hope they reboot the Khan character. Originally he was from 1996, that’s impossible. So he should be from, like, 2063 or something. And hopefully they get a Bollywood actor to play him. That would be great.
I voted TWOK, but ST2009 is a close second. My bet is that JJ & company will make ST201x even better.
And that Botany Bay looked awful in the original. I hope they redesign that as well.
Like a pencil. Seriously, who designed that pile of…
7. Gary Seven – August 22, 2009 :
You’ve got me thinking.
The best Trek films, in my opinion, are as follows.
1. TWOK (Trek 2)
2. TVH (Trek 4)
3. TUC (Trek 6)
4. Star Trek 2009 (Trek 11).
I’m very happy with the success of the latest Star Trek film. But I find it quite ironic that this film has such a high reputation in the mainstream, when I think that there are several other Trek films that are considerably better. Two questions arise. First, what’s good about Trek 2009? Second, how could it have been better?
Trek 2009 was good in many ways. It had great special effects. It had the ‘heart’ and the character-driven story-line that’s quintessentially ‘Star Trek’. It had real stakes with the loss of Spock’s mother and Spock’s home-world. It had humour. It had tragedy and sadness. It had some philosophising with the characters’ talk of their possible pre-determined vs. open destinies. It had modern dialogue. It had good acting from the whole cast. It had Leonard Nimoy! So why don’t I consider it to be the best Trek film, then, you might ask? I think that there are three big problems (presented in no particular order) and several small ones with Trek 2009.
Big Problem no: 1 is that the various chance encounters stretched credulity, in my opinion, almost to breaking point. A story should be believable. But it was a bit difficult to swallow how this crew came together. This is true of all their various individual journeys. However, I think that the worst chance encounter is when Kirk just happens to be marooned on the same planet as Spock Prime; and worse, after escaping the monsters, just happens to bump into Spock Prime. Then, they both just happen to meet Scotty, who’s also on that planet. It seems that the galaxy really isn’t as big as was once thought.
Big Problem no: 2 is the villain, Nero. I thought that he was a poor man’s Khan: a shallow imitation. Like Khan, he loses his wife; he uses mind-controlling creatures. Unlike Khan, he has no real motivation; and his character isn’t fleshed-out. Spock Prime tried his very best to help Romulus; I don’t see why Nero would have good reason to hold Spock Prime responsible for what happened. And, given the nature of time-travel used in this film (via the multiverse), Nero couldn’t hurt Spock Prime by going back in time. For the time and place to which Nero and Spock went ‘back’ was not a time and place they had ever known: the characters, planets, and everything else in this alternative timeline aren’t those about which Spock Prime knows or cares. Nero’s back-story and his motivation should have been given more screen-time. What makes Khan, e.g., such a great villain is that the whole film is about him: as Ricardo himself said, when Khan isn’t on screen, everybody’s talking about him. We know the character. We understand him. In Trek 2009, however, Nero is just the generic ‘bad guy’ to complete a story about how the bridge crew formed. Nero is hardly ever on screen. Consequently, we don’t fear him; we don’t understand him; we don’t know him.
Big problem no: 3 is that the story is sometimes difficult to understand. I consider myself to a fairly intelligent and knowledgeable person; but I didn’t understand what this red-matter stuff was or what, exactly, it did: why did it sometimes destroy planets and other times facilitate time-travel? I think that the entire story should be clear to the audience. Take Khan, everything is clear, even to the uninitiated. Even Khan’s back-story is fleshed-out sufficiently to understand both who and what he is and what his gripe is with Kirk
There are also, in my opinion, several small problems with the film. As a Trek fan, I thought that there were too many references to ‘old’ Star Trek. The film is almost littered with them. E.g., Kirk eats an apple when sitting the Kobayashi Maru exam; he bumps his head a la Scotty from TFF; he compares Spock to a computer a la ‘This Side of Paradise’; etc. I won’t make a big issue of these references: it would have gone right over the heads on non-Trekkies, obviously. But I did get a bit annoyed with all the catchphrases. It’s verging on parody when every cast member gets their one-liner in: one or two such phrases are ok; but nothing more than that please. Now, I liked the music; but I found it too repetitive in structure. And I didn’t think that the score was as good as what has come before from Horner, Goldsmith, et al. I didn’t think much of Scotty’s accent. As an Englishman with a Scottish mother and family, Pegg seemed to me to be exactly what he is in real-life: an Englishman attempting a Scottish accent. He even drops the accent completely when he says ‘can I get a towel’. I much prefer Jimmy Doohan’s portrayal.
In summary (as this has become an essay and I’ve stopped before it becomes a thesis) Star Trek 2009 is a very good (Trek) film; but, despite what the mainstream audience may think, Trek has had better films. But all credit to JJ and co. They have resuscitated a dying franchise. More than that, they’ve made Star Trek cool again. Star Trek’s future hasn’t looked this good since the 80s. I can’t wait for Trek 12. I hope that the writers and co will deliver again for us the fans.
#34 ” it’s all been done.”
“I’m sorry, Mr. Cooper, but all the Indian stories have been done.”
(Editor rejecting James Fennemore Cooper’s “Last of the Mohicans”
#52 “And I hope they reboot the Khan character. Originally he was from 1996, that’s impossible. ”
Have you read “The Eugenics Wars: The Rise and Fall of Khan Noonien Singh” by Greg Cox?
“47. ger – August 22, 2009
I hope they really do a Khan story. I want to see a fresh and exciting new take on an old character in this exciting new and fresh universe they opened to us.
48. ger – August 22, 2009
After Khan, I want them to remake The Doomsday Machine! The original episode is so 60s. Pine and Quinto will make a much better job. And a story about a doomsday machine would be a refreshing and exciting new twist in this exciting new universe.
50. ger – August 22, 2009
And then, when the trilogy is over, they should reboot again, and give new actors a chance, so that Pine, Quinto & the others can go on in their exciting career.
52. ger – August 22, 2009
And I hope they reboot the Khan character. Originally he was from 1996, that’s impossible. So he should be from, like, 2063 or something. And hopefully they get a Bollywood actor to play him. That would be great.”
that does it. anthony, ban me for this if you gotta, but put this crap out of our lives. ger is flaming, blatantly, and with intent. he being isn’t cynical. he’s baiting. i have A REAL PROBLEM with the “bollywood” comment. fire everything and let this pussball fall back into the black hole from which he emerged. please.
Concerning the Poll on best star trek movie I see it like this.
Best Star Trek movie moment: Spock Dying in TWOK
Best Star Trek Movie: ST:2009
#39 … “Jon Favreau”
Great choice! Especially since he’s already a Paramount guy. Unfortunately, he’ll probably be tied up with both Iron Man 3 and the Avengers.
I’m glad to see that so many people liked The Undiscovered Country. That was great Star Trek!
vote: david lynch for “star trek: something something”. dennis hopper as harry mudd. oh the joy of it.
TUC is one that I think is one of the best Trek films, just think it’s been undervalued and unappreciated over the years.
As for the sequel talk, especially about the director, I’m pretty certain that Abrams will be back, but maybe after he directs something else. As for replacements if he doesn’t come back, I think there’s a chance Nicholas Meyer could make a return (seeing as he’s a friend of Abrams, and there’s no doubt that he probably helped out on the last film), or could Steven Spielberg jump on board (again, a friend of Abrams, who helped out and was even confirmed as a guest on set). Only problem is with the whole DreamWorks situation, will Spielberg return to Paramount?
NO Khan, NO Shatner, NO Borg and NO Frakes!! Oh, and NO Nimoy!
Please, make it an all-original story with the all-new crew standing on their own. No crutches.
These “No Khaners” are beguiling to me.
How can you NOT want the return of the best ST villain EVER?
(Especially if he ends up being played by Javier Bardem???)
Shatner was the only thing missing from the historically groundbreaking new film besides an epic villain. Putting him and Kirk’s arch nemesis in the next film would solve this AND be a dream come true for fanboys everywhere young & old. It would transport us all back the spirit of the BEST ST film “The Wrath of Khan”. Not having Khan & Shatner would be a monumental mistake. It’s money in the bank.
I find the poll surprising: currently at 38% for the brilliant TWOK and 30% for the good Star Trek 2009. I wonder if some people are just assuming that many other people will vote for TWOK such that it doesn’t need their vote; instead, they’re voting for other films that they want to show that they also like (even though they don’t actually think they’re best). After all, in this thread and in this franchise, TWOK is the point-of-reference. There might also be the factor that Trek 2009 is new: whereas the fans can probably quote almost every line from TWOK, Trek 2009 is a new experience for them. (I remember some Star Wars fans coming out of the cinema declaring that the film that they’d just seen, Revenge of the Sith, was the best Star Wars film they’d ever seen. I wonder how many of them still think that, now that the fad has worn-off; and Empire… sits proudly in their DVD collection.) Or Perhaps the poll genuinely reflects the fans’ opinions of the Trek films…who knows?
#65 I think the mention of Frakes is… as a director of STXII if JJ opts out. His work on First Contact merits consideration. If only they had let Frakes direct Nemesis, it might have been salvageable…. he’d have probably gone with having Stewart portray both Picard and Shinzon. Stewart v. Stewart… it would have been almost like a mirror TNG event. :)
#AP The poll is interesting now, with TWOK clearly #1, and ST’2009 clearly #2. Any financial problems Paramount thought they’d have are clearly moot now with the big take this year… that’s a lot of cash flow.
Sequel: I must always say “Garth” and “The Romulan Commander portrayed previously by Mark Lenard”. Have them facing the Klingons at Axanar. It’s fertile ground, and explains why the fleet was gathering at Laurentia.
Overall though, accept that the sequel can’t possibly do as well as the first film. Given that, don’t try to be a great film, just be a good film and let history make its own judgment. ;)
I voted for TWoK. The more I think about the 2009 movie the more I dislike it. The actors are fine, I can even (barely) live with the new Enterprise. It’s the story that bothers me and the way Kirk’s history as a starfleet officer before Captain was thrown out the airlock.
Also, I know nothing about hollywood movie studio operations, but I have to ask, what do the studios do with the profits they make from movies? Does any of it go back into the company to help create new movies or do they just divide up the money and go their seperate ways?
If Trek 2009 made over $100 million dollars in profit some of that money should have been set aside to help produce future movies. I just do get the crying poverty act. Even the biggest flops eventually make most of their money back after video sales and TV airings.
@27: Hell, why not? Or possibly Martin Campbell (Casino Royale). If JJ doesn’t direct, they should choose somebody from way out of left field.
That Jimmy Smits photo makes me wonder exactly who was in the Ewok costume with Scotty on Delta Vega.
The director’s choice will be interesting to see. Fans of the old stuff always seem to want somebody whose been attached to the franchise before, like Frakes, Nimoy, or Meyer. But I don’t think that would be a wise decision. To maintain momentum they really need someone with fresh ideas, who isn’t lazy in the attention to detail department, and who can match JJ’s energy, because what comes out next will be compared to the first film. So they need somebody who makes good movies, not necessarily someone who “knows” Star Trek, because even if they don’t they’ll get a crash course on it pronto. Just as James Cameron followed up Ridley Scott for the Alien sequel, they need somebody who can do as well or better than JJ, and that’s going to be a challenge.
I keep coming back to Spielberg on my own wish list, because though the man’s been around a long time, he knows how to make a film that moves. And with the right material he’s one of the best directors we have.
Spielberg would be my fantasy match up.
Guillermo del Toro would be my more realistic pick.
Look at the photo. Is it my imagination? Or is Jimmy Smits mumbling through that strange smile that he wants the part of Khan?
SHAT-NER, SHAT-NER! I’m so happy they are talking about him.
Please, let Shatner and Nimoy play together again for maybe the last time, and give them a good *open-ended* send-off to erase horrible Generations out of fandom minds.
As for the best movies – I can’t choose between Undiscovered Country and Voyage Home, with TWOK coming next.
ST-2009 is such a different beast I can’t place it anywhere. I love it for the youthful energy and potential for the future, and don’t like some of the choices – but let’s see the sequels, and how it woudl fit in the reboot context.
Oh, as for a director – what about Cuaron?
I’d still love for it to be Abrams, but if not, Cuaron would be my 2nd best choice.
You folks want Shatner in the sequel? Here’s how to do it (maybe an old idea):
In the sequel, have Kirk & crew trying to figure out a way to correct the timeline damage caused by Nero–Vulcan, etc.–and they’re not even sure if they should fix things. But something goes wrong, and they contact a different universe–not the Prime line but the Mirror line.
But it’s on a different time track, 50 years later, where a much older and wiser Kirk–played, of course, by William Shatner–is also a much more evil and diabolical Kirk.
Instead of Kirk vs. Khan in the sequel, it should be Kirk vs. Kirk. Imagine Shatner playing Kirk as the ultimate Trek bad guy!
Heck, I think I’m going to go write this story anyway!
Get Shatner in and free JJ Abrams from the frightening burden of being the director once more – just my two cents…:)
#51
No antics that I remember – unless you call “I’ve not seen the movie” an antic…:)
How about this from a story line content production angle. So far every Star Trek film has started from the point of view from Star Fleet’s angle. How about start a story from the other sides point of view. Their side is a developing Stellar systems society that runs into Star Fleet and gets conquired by Star Fleet. Mostly they give up after losing a few battles and their society is kind of a submissive kind that wants to be submissive to the dominate ones. But when slaped they give a good slap back but they are only good for a return slap not a rumble to the floor fight. But they are good at thinking and explaining so Star Fleet wants them to join and after the battles at first the movie goes into the merging of their domain into Star Fleets. But the new guys have a suicidal facton that the Alcada, and the movie shows how to calm them so they desire to merge with Star Fleet. They could even be like the Romulan branch of Vulcans but from the Klingon side.
*** NOTE *** Since I posted this comment here in public domain this idea is for free use by anyone and I have no legal claim or right to it’s ownership. This needs to be stated so just in case any authors like the ideas they are free to use them. Just like how all statements posted here in public domain should be under this same rule. And may be why if an idea is posted hear oe else where people are scared to use them because one of todays society’s big hangups is people would rather sue to make money that to get off their fat ass and work. President Reagan pointed this fact out in a speech in 1986 and every year it has only become more and more true.
@76 Even though I’m still on the fence about The Shat coming back, your idea is horribly entertaining ;)
I am happy to hear that they are taking the necessary steps to make sure the movie is taken care of (seeing how ideas work, taking time to write it, etc.)
As for movie ideas, Khan is a good one… just make him new and exciting. Or a completely different character with the same agenda as Khan (wanting Kirk dead… Spock has already had his fun). As long as at the end of Star Trek XIII (lets face it. Unless the next movie only makes $2, it”s prolly gonna happen) I don’t have to witness Kirk or Spock (either of them) die, I will be totally fine with any GOOD ideas that Orci and Kurtzman come up with. I just really don’t wanna leave a Star Trek movie in tears! ahaha
I think it’s difficult to choose a best Star Trek movie if you include the new film. To me, the original cast is dear to my heart, and I enjoyed the first four of their films. I can pick a favorite among them (TWOK), but this is Trek of a another era.
The new film, while being very much Star Trek to me, is almost a completely different animal, from a new era. It is in many ways, TO ME, superior to the TOS films. If I was stuck on a desert island, and could have only one Trek movie, what would it be?
I think it would be the new film. I have, after all, seen the others countless times. I like the newness of this film, the possibilities. Because it represents our last best hope for Star Trek, it is my favorite Trek flick.
Blah, blahbitty blah, blahbitty blah…
Too bad they killed off the Captain of the Kelvin. He could have come back and acted his revenge on Kirkk for killing almost his entire crew, and for also destroying his ship.
#66 asks: “How can you NOT want the return of the best ST villain EVER?”
Let me count the ways :) Speaking only for myself, of course:
(1) I don’t want to see another villain in Star Trek, period. Khan was a brilliant anomaly and I wouldn’t trade Star Trek II for the world, but he was an anomaly still, and he’s done visible damage to many of the Trek films to follow, thanks to multiple attempts to re-create Khan (all of which remind me of that scene in Annie Hall where Alvy tries to re-create the lobster date).
(2) It would look to many people like an admission (justifiably or not) that the only thing this creative crew is capable of is rehashing the past with yet more nods and winks. Given that Hollywood has been suffering from that exact disease for well over a decade now, it wouldn’t be a niche, edge-of-the-audience concern, either.
(3) There’s the very real chance that it would be an embarrassment, a stain on what is currently a pleasant memory not only for Star Trek fans, but for the many non-Trek fans who regard Wrath of Khan as a fun movie.
(4) We just HAD a vengeance-motivated lost-his-girl-lost-his-world bile-spitting scenery-chewing villain who puts-alien-critters-in-people villain in the LAST movie. So, even for fans who have _begun_ their Star Trek experience with the current movie, it would look a lot like the new movies are already treading water. Of course, given the point in the alt-timeline, maybe the new Khan would be a pre-villain foil who _hasn’t_ lost his girl and _isn’t_ yet gnawing on the set, but if you take that route it renders your entire question moot, because the Khan we saw in TOS was a great _character,_ a challenge to be met and understood and solved, and by no means a villain at all.
69. Mike Ten
The more I think about the 2009 movie the more I dislike it.
__________
I’m having a similar reaction. While I enjoyed it a lot, I’m questioning the “necessity” of changing so much of it. I don’t worry too much about the questionable science…after all it’s Star Trek…but I’m no longer convinced that the rich tapestry that is TOS didn’t have enough wiggle room for a clever team of writers to create new stories within its confines. Especially writers who profess a deep knowledge and love of Trek. I liked a lot of things about their movie, but I’m losing the feeling that it’s the same Star Trek that held my imagination for so long.
Maybe a few spins in the DVD player will win me back. Yes, I’m going to buy it. And nitpick it. For the same reason I’m going to get a model kit of the new E when it comes out. So I can hold it and look at it from all angles.
#69 says “The more I think about the 2009 movie the more I dislike it.”
I still like it just as much, but the more I think about the 2009 movie the more I come to grudgingly accept that it just isn’t a movie that bears thinking about, not even a little. It’s a purely visceral film best enjoyed with your brain _entirely_ off the hook, popcorn in your hand, a cute date at your side, a t-shirt that reads “If Guns Were Outlawed I Wouldn’t Have Toys When I Get Drunk,” and the best sound system you can find.
Looking at the poll I see that ST:TMP is not so beloved. Yet, a lot of fans posting on these forums keeps praising it. And the new movie is treatening TWOK. I think that there is a clear gap between (the few) regular posters and (the many) silent lurkers.
I may say that the majority of trekkers around the world have different opinion than the hard-core fans expressing their opinions on the internet. And this explains a lot of things.
^ it was “threatening”
I’m relieved to hear, that they are taking their time.
Don’t get me wrong, I loved ST11 but the next one has to show, if Bob, Alex and JJ really figured out, what these characters are about AND deliver a thrilling story.
So in my opinion the very well done ST11 raised the bar for the next one. It has to be funny, smart, breathtaking, exiting and show some character progress. It’s a tough nut to crack, so please Bob and Alex take all the time you need!
I don’t care, if I had to wait a year longer, as long as I can look forward to a good movie, ST12!!!!
Greetings from Germany
Phil
Films best to worst (imo) :
Classic ***** – TWOK
Great **** – TSFS, ST09, FC, TUC, TVH
OK *** – TMP, GEN
Poor ** – TFF, NEM, INS
As for Khan…c’mon he is to Kirk what the joker is to batman or Moriarty to Holmes…hes Kirks arch nemesis!! (whatever the circumstances)
..hes gotta be in the sequel!! (or at least set up for Trek ‘3′)
How about taking elements from Shatner’s Star Trek novel “The Return” and incorporating them into Star Trek XII? In case you haven’t read it the story plot is about Kirk being resurrected by the Romulans using Borg technology after the events of Generations and being brainwashed to go after the Federation. Take that element, add onto the fact that brainwashed Kirk was one of the survivors from Romulus after it was blown to bits via the supernova as seen in the Countdown comic book series and Star Trek XI…the Romulans could send Kirk back into yet a different time frame in the new timeline set into motion by Spock Prime and Nero somehow. Now we have Kirk Prime (Shatner) back into the loop with this new timeline and therefore making the Star Trek universe happy that the Shat can come back. Also we’d open the door for a possible on-screen reunion of Kirk Prime and Spock Prime.
I also agree with all the comments about no Khan. That belonged to one actor and was handled very creatively in its day. Let the character rest. Lets try to come up with a fresh villain shall we? I’m sure those now entrusted with Star Trek’s legacy will be able to come up with something the fans will enjoy and appreciate on that front.
Wouldn’t mind seeing a tribble or two at some point though. Also how about Kirk and Carol Marcus hooking up in the next movie? Wouldn’t mind seeing that one happen.
How about this one for a mind blower?…Jolene Blalock making a cameo in the next movie as the elder T’Pal as one of the Vulcans who escaped Vulcan just before it was destroyed?…or better yet she’s an instructor at the Academy who helps out Chris Pine and company in the next mission. That or Scott Bakula as elder Admiral Archer looking for retribution over the loss of his beagle and in effect helping out the new crew of NCC-1701?
Just some random ideas. Hope you all enjoy. If not…”Live Long And Prosper.”
7 Gary Seven
“So I wouldn’t mind if he just produced and they found a director who really gets Star Trek.”
This is the usual code from the canon-freak fans who want to see cardboard sets, 60’s color schemes, and aging fat buffoons (Shatner) in the film.
29. Cyberghost – August 22, 2009
“Please no Frakes, not to good of a track record, and Shatner, YES, Kahn NO”
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Frakes directed First Contact which was a superb Star Trek film and Insurrection which was mediocre but not the worst one.
and Shatner NO NO NO NO ! He has degenerated into a fat and pathetic clown. the only remotely possible Star Trek role he could fill would be Harry Mudd.
an alternate reality version of Khan might be interesting. the Star Trek films and series’ have milked every ounce of juice from the Klingons, the Romulans, and the Borg; and shouldn’t go anywhere near them again. compared to them, Khan is fresh territory.
Shot for shot remake of ST TMP, that’s the way to go
1. FC (Trek 8) – outstanding
2. TWOK (Trek 2) – outstanding
3. Star Trek 2009 (Trek 11) – good
4. TVH (Trek 4) – good
5. TUC (Trek 6) – good
6. SFS (Trek 3) – good
7. TMP (Trek 1) – fair
8. Generations (Trek 7) – fair
9. Nemesis (Trek 10) – fair
10. Insurrection (Trek 9) – bad
11. FF (Trek 5) – absolute crap
33. Cyberghost – August 22, 2009 “always will be the definitive James T or D Kirk, depending or not u believe “Where no man has gone before”
I think if you look at “Where No Man Has Gone Before” the initial on Kirk’s tombstone is “R”.
however, your comment about Shatner stands as true 10,000% !!!
=====================================
Incidentally the idea often postulated that “ON-SCREEN = CANON” that some choose to accept can’t really be correct, after all how could the Enterprise’s decks go up and then down and then up in level numbers (as Spock, Kirk McCoy go up on Spock’s rocket boots!) .. or any number of continuity errors)
What really counts is that the essence / spirit / theme / karma / katra / [whatever you wanna call it] of this incredible TREK will continue long after our own thoughts have turned to cyberdust.
For crying out loud we don’t need Khan, Star Trek isn’t about major villains this isn’t Bond.
“To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before”
if you carry on with just villains you might as well change it to
“To Battle The Villain We’ve Seen Before”
Star Trek is what Nasa should become, its about man’s need to explore the heavens to do the undoable and show a Future worth aiming for.
Gary Seven, I’m glad I’m not the only one who noticed how Star Warsy the movie was. I also think that Abrahms does not understand or “get” the vision of Roddenberry. Star Trek used to be an intelligent show that showed how problems could be resolved without necessarily using force. Generations & Voyager continued with that vision. As much as the movie was entertaining, I could not take my grandchildren( 8& 10) to see it because of it’s violence.
Oh and please, I hope they get rid of the lens flare. It drove me nuts. I don’t need to squint to be entertained.
Cyberghost, you are correct. Since the alternative universe has been established in ST11, there is no excuse to not bring Kirk (Shatner) back in some way. He would never had to die. Then as you said, the circle will have been completed. All will be content, and I believe even the Shat will agree to that.
#98
I agree that since JJ has established an alternate timeline, Kirk does not need to die and in-theory he could appear as an old man. The only problem is that you would once again need to use time travel in the story, and time travel is another of the Trek plot gimmicks which has been done to death in the films. Besides, they would blow the entire film budget constructing a uniform strong enough to contain Shat’s enormous bulk.
Let Shat and old Kirk rest in peace. Stop using time travel as a convenient plot gimmick to get around a lack of imaginative story telling.
Here goes- What were you all who didn’t like the new Star Trek movie thinking it should be? Bring on new characters and throw them in immediately as Kirk, Spock and crew? No one would have bought them, no way. It was absolutely brilliant to include the old and new generation through the story from the BEGINNING.
It was not meant to emulate any of the preceding films, but to delve into the never before seen youth of the Enterprise and how they became what they became. The new actors brought much needed life to the franchise in that it has brought an interest from a whole new generation as well as re-kindled interest in the die hard fans as well. On a side note, I love the fact that my kids now enjoy watching TOS because of the new Star Trek movie. (I had them watch a few TOS episodes prior to the movie to get them hyped lol) They are now fans, and I don’t think if it had been done any other way it would have drew in the younger viewers, thus risking a certain doom for the franchise.
The actors also were careful to not copy the original actors but also kept enough of the original characters essence to allow those of us familiar with the quirks of Kirk, Spock and the others to connect with them immediately. So to those of you who didn’t appreciate this new twist on a wonderful but aging story, I say write something you think would be better. I really don’t think you could.
I for one cannot wait until the next one comes out, I know they will handle it as expertly as 2009.
- I always thought that TOS series wasn’t so great…because is depressing to see a crew without ..sexy women…as main characters..just like in the new movie..i just want to see a new KESS or a new SEVEN OF NINE… in the next movie…you know..ENTERPRISE is a large ship for a single woman ..like UHURA …
“59. pock speared – August 22, 2009
that does it. anthony, ban me for this if you gotta, but put this crap out of our lives. ger is flaming, blatantly, and with intent. he being isn’t cynical. he’s baiting. i have A REAL PROBLEM with the “bollywood” comment. fire everything and let this pussball fall back into the black hole from which he emerged. please.”
What the hell is wrong with you? Can’t I post my wishes for a sequel anymore, just because you don’t like them? I think you should be banned for constantly insulting anyone who doesn’t share your opinion.
What’s you problem with Bollywood actors? Khan’s Indian, right? So why shall he not be played by an Indian actor? One who’s also famous because of his Bollywood movies, so the movie will make a lot more money that way outside the US.
It would also be cool if they really use that alternate universe with unknown outcome, and kill off major characters in the next movie, like Uhura, Sulu, Chekov or Scotty. Now that would be fresh.
“96. David B – August 23, 2009
For crying out loud we don’t need Khan, Star Trek isn’t about major villains this isn’t Bond.
“To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before”
if you carry on with just villains you might as well change it to
“To Battle The Villain We’ve Seen Before”
Star Trek is what Nasa should become, its about man’s need to explore the heavens to do the undoable and show a Future worth aiming for.”
But the audience demands fast paced action, space battles, fist fights and chase scenes! The movie proved that, and the audience loved that formula. There can’t be no exciting action without a villain. So the next movie needs to follow the same formula, or they will put off the audience.
Let’s face it. They returned to TOS because TOS was the most famous and most successful part of Star Trek. Everyone knows Kirk and Spock.
Now they need to return to the most famous villain of Trek: Khan. Everyone knows Khan. Even Quentin Tarantino loves Khan. That is a mainstream villain.
The next movie MUST have Khan.
Ask JK Rowling to contribute to the next story. Not many know how to write quality character driven stories and if she were committed to understanding the characters first i’m sure she would crank things up another notch again.
Christopher Nolan would be another one.
As for the idea of Roddenberry;s vision that i see crop up i don’t think his vision really extended beyond wagon train to the stars with a multi cultural emphasis.
Kahn would be a bad move for the next story. The fan boys may love the idea but lets move on.
Let’s remember that the voyage home was one of the most successful Treks and there was no villain in the movie. Just good fun story telling with a message.
I am glad that TWOK is considered the best movie
But amazed that TUC has got a small percentage, I believe that Undiscovered Country is up there with TWOK and FC as the top Star Trek movies,
I am suprised that not many peple voted TUC as I feel it is one of the best and certainly better than the new movie
Khan only appeared in one film, and one movie, there is so much more to Trek than Khan and the Borg. I love Khan and the Borg but they are not the end all and be all of Trek.
Hell Star Trek is about exploring the galaxy not blowing up planets.
Shatner can definitely play the older Kirk. They can even make him 100 years old. No time travel need be necessary. Especially if the story skips ahead several years. Could be an enemy that reappears later in his life, like Khan. Could be anyone.
I don’t want Shatner playing a relative. Anyone can do that. Only Shatner can play an older James T Kirk.
#104: “There can’t be no exciting action without a villain.”
I think this sentence captures the essence of Hollywood thinking, in both content and form.
I think they (the writers) should focus on the grand scope of the universe that Star Trek resides in. The sequel should try to show as much of it as they can. Now that there are a bunch of new fans, Star Trek is like a new Corvette, time to take it out and show what she’s got. The writers should just try making the best movie ever, not just science fiction and not just Star Trek. I’ve always felt Star Trek has always had the framework in place from it’s characters, philosophy and settings to make the greatest stories/movie in the history of mankind. There is heroism, comraderie, discovery, science, exploration, action and human drama that is all possible with Star Trek stories.
The next film needs to be a clean break, from my perspective: no old Spock, no Khan, no references to any past Treks. Just a fresh exciting new adventure with old friends!
@75: Alfonso Cuaron as director? I’ve only seen three of his movies. But yeah, the way he handles Harry Potter makes me think he could handle Star Trek too.
handles = handled
Star Trek, from a commercial perspective, has to expand its “new” universe. We need races, ships, weapons and characters that can be sold as toys and video games, and written about in “EU” books.
Toys and videogames are living advertisements in a kid’s room, and they help to bridge the gap between films. I had all the Mego action figures from Trek and Marvel, and I was over the moon as a child making my own adventures.
Star Wars has done this to the extreme, and it has worked to create an empire (pun intended) around a mostly mediocre set of films. But the universe itself is huge and is peopled by identifiable races who live on specific planets with their own specific characters.
“Trek” of old has this as well, but it needs a bit of spit and polish. It needs to be fun again, and not like the “Onion” parody where the characters sit around conference tables debating. ST09 was fun.
#56 I agree completely. It was a fun movie, but don’t look too close! You know what killed it stone dead for me? The so-called novelisation. What a piece of…
It really showed how much effect JJ’s directing had on turning a brown trout into dancing dolphin.
Anyhoo… Spielberg + Williams would be my dream directing / scoring combo.
Re the poll: ST.09 isn’t far behind TWOK, and this is a FAN poll, so even if it comes out that ST.09 is a close second favorite to TWOK, that means it beats out all other ST movies among FANS, whether it’s the TOS or TNG casts.
That’s significant. This movie broke the mold of all other ST films before, in that it aimed to be good as a MOVIE, not just a ST movie, and appeal to non fans in a way that no other ST film had done before. By the current numbers, the poll seems to be saying fans think it was good Star Trek, and the general public seems to think it was a good movie, so it appears to have accomplished its goal.
Regarding Khan: I liked TWOK, but I also thought it was a low budget way to handle a new story involving Khan. Meyer turned Khan into a basket case, and I thought that was a cheap way to handle a sequel to Space Seed which ended with the possibility of so much hope for Khan. Of course, Khan’s success in taming Ceti Alpha 5 would have been more expensive to portray in a revisit to that world; depicting a dead dustball with a miraculous ecosystem having only two living species left: Humans and the ear-thingies, isn’t such a strain on the budget. And playing checkers for 10 years is bound to drive anyone insane, right?
So I thought TWOK squandered the potential of Khan. Whatever the Supreme Court decides, I do not expect that we will see either a remake of Space Seed or TWOK if they do decide to use Khan. I expect that it will be very different, and that would be the fun of it.
112: “Now that there are a bunch of new fans, Star Trek is like a new Corvette, time to take it out and show what she’s got.”
Let’s hope the new director doesn’t drive the Corvette off a cliff.
#113 dom
you said it. one thing i sorely missed in trek09 was the opportunity for spock and mccoy to have the classic go at kirk while he makes a crucial decision, logic vs. humanity, just a damn minute, really doctor, etc.
they can throw khan-shaped klingon whales who were cloned from old voyager probes at them if they must (wish they wouldn’t), but the “villain” need only be something that addresses some aspect of our heroes own conflicts. if TOS was 60’s man (and woman) confronted with the (thinly disguised) issues of the time, then 21st century trek can do the same. we remain a complex and “fascinating” species, worthy of brand new adventures.
@ 96 Unfortunately, now in this ADD riddled world it appears that ACTION is what everyone wants these days to be considered “Motion Pictures” but I do agree with you, we need to see more exploring and less action.
You know i gotta ask, speaking of directing and everything, what part did Steven Speilberg help direct in ST1.2?
OK here’s what they need to do:
1. If you *must* include Khan, do it in a different direciton. No revenge crap.
2. We need another strong female crewmenber in the next one, one who is ranked lieutenant commander or higher (give her some authority) and do NOTput her in one of those goofy-looking mini-dresses (Uhura can still have hers, but this woman should wear trousers). One who won’t put up with Kirk’s advances, and who is wary of Kirk due to the “cadet to captain” deal. Kirk will need to respect this woman professionally. You could either kill off one of the other male crewmembers (Sulu or Chekov comes to mind – no I don’t hate these characters, but hey, take some chances here – you trashed Vulcan in the previous movie) and replace him with her, or make her like head of security.
3. More believable engineering set. No more brewery. Make pipes better arranged and more futuristic, and compartmentalized.
4. Get your physics right! Orci shouldn’t be whining about his QM when he can’t get basic physics right!
If this has become a democracy, my vote goes to…
- No Nimoy and no Shatner. Star Trek 2009 was the handoff to the new cast. Now let them stand on their own in the next movie.
- No Khan. An all-new story, please. I don’t mind a familiar face/name or two, but not Space Seed 2011.
- Splurge on a real Engineering set, even if that means we don’t get a big name start like Tom Cruise or Tom Hanks in the next movie.
4. Kirk’s Girdle – August 22, 2009
Either Orci is really small or Smits is really big.
—–
Both — he’s huge!
For me the one area where this last movie really dropped the ball was production design. While I enjoyed the film, I found the aesthetic of most of the Enterprise sets lacking when compared to prior Trek movies. Regardless of what budget the new movie gets, I home some money will be spent on improving the sets. Let’s clean up the bridge a bit (way too cluttered with too many stations); let’s have a proper engine room this time; and no more shots of a brewery with some strategically placed pipes and a couple of consoles. The Enterprise is as much a character in these films as any of the flesh and blood participants, and I think the sets deserve a little more love than what they got.
How about a movie based on the Vanguard series? That story has it all: Ancient alien civilization, mystery, alien cultures in conflict, and plenty of action! And best of all…..NO MAIN VILLAIN! Just exploration of an ancient mystery!
That’s a story that’s totally fresh and allows us to see something new!
bob orci – this could be abit of a silly question but i was thinking – when writing Trek 09 did u imagine the characters as younger than TOS versions of the original actors (like one imagines the actors when reading ST novels):
e.g. the bar scene – “Studio One” Shatner trying to chat up “The Lieutenant” Nichols…before ‘The Cage’ Hunter breaks up the fight and gives Kirk his pep talk…then meeting “Gunfight at the OK Corral” Kelly the next day…then fast forwarding to ‘Judgement at Nuremberg’ Shatner for the Kobiashi Maru
or was it in your mind that it would be certain different actors? (maybe even had ideas as to who it could be)
one of the best Voyager eps was “Distant Origins” which theorized that an intelligent race of dinosaurs evolved on earth in the distant past, left earth, and established a powerful civilization in the Delta quadrant. i’d love to see another story revisting this concept…… perhaps the next film?
@129. I loved Voyager, but apsolutely HATED distant Origins. I thought it was dumb and quite frankly, a little disturbing.
Good GOD Smits looks like he’s gaining more and more power every day! Can the man-giant Smits not be stopped?
b’orci:
howzabout the enterprise visits a planet where like, everyone is totally addicted to some kind of electronic web of information of some kind, and like, they are mostly total dungheads who spout opinions randomly and think they are all good writers, and like, kirk has to kill them all to save the universe from trolling, flaming freaks, but ya know, doesn’t really want to do it, ’cause spock says it’s illogical and mccoy says it’s inhumane, but like, uhura is really hot, so they do it anyway? huh?
oh yeah, and, and, and like kirk, kirk has to talk the electronic web thing to death so that SOME OF US CAN ENJOY THE FILM without a hyper-critique of every aspect of a movie that was essentially written to please them? or is that too far out?
just wondering.
126. TonyD — Amen, brother! I agree on every point you make about the production design. For a film that was supposed to update the look, the engine room and brewery-communications center were just awful.
And next time, can we actually see the Enterprise in all her glory? Not necessarily a 5-minute flyaround a la TMP, but at least something more than the less-than-beautiful shots we see in this film. The ship’s design is fine, looks TOS enough and movie-era enough to work, but it seemed like Abrams didn’t want to give us ANY long, loving looks at her.
After all, if Star Trek is “the voyages of the STARSHIP ENTERPRISE,” shouldn’t she get a better deal, inside and out?
There are tons of potenital villains, tholians, gorn, orions why not use them?
I hope JJ is on board for the sequel. I like his director’s eye. Everything from his composition of the frame to his wild angles and cool camera movement. Hell, I even dig the flares. I hope the next movie benefits from his vision.
132. pock speared.
Awesome post.
I’ll throw in my 2 cents for best Trek movies:
I cannot rank them all in order, as I like some the same. Also, there are flaws with every movie ever made, I do not believe in such things as a perfect movie. So:
#1: ST 09, TWoK, 1st Contact: Great movies, all! I can watch them over and over.
#2: TVH, TSFS: Yes, I like them equally, they complete the Trek Trilogy.
#3: Generations, Undiscovered Country: They have a few problems that really bother me, but overall pretty good movies.
#4: Final Frontier, TMP: These are like, ehhh. I’ll watch them once like every ten years.
#5: Insurrection and Nemesis: Complete Crap. I’ll never watch them again.
If J.J. is unable to do it, I think PETER JACKSON would make a good director for the next Star Trek Film!! Either him, or NEILL BLOMKAMP, the director of District 9!!! Either one would be a very, very good choice. Blomkamp was originally slated to direct “Halo” but it fell through because of movie executives’ stupidity; he did a fine job with District 9 which was an expansion of his own movie short. I think he would do a wonderful job of directing a Star Trek film and since he is relatively new he would probably do it without having to get paid an insane amount of money.
Other choices:
James Cameron
Ridley Scott
ANYONE BUT THE FOLLOWING:
McG
Michael Bay
BECAUSE THESE TWO DIRECTORS TOTALLY SUCK!!
#7 Wrath of Khan for me as well. But the fact that we are debating the point speaks volumes for just how good Trek ‘09 is.
And where the hell was that awards ceremony held, Liliput?!
#110
You are d*mned right. :)
Just to put in my two cents: TWOK and ST09 both have their merits. I think it would be unfair to compare the two, since they were released in different eras. People thought and behaved differently in the early eighties than they do now. I think that like Star Trek has been in the past, the new film is a reflection of where we are in modern society. And a decent one at that. The characters, in my opinion at least, behave a bit more realistically in the new film. That’s my two cents at least.
-The Doc
J.J. Abrams didn’t direct the first Star Trek movie. He was 13 when it came out.
Guillermo Del Toro as director of next Trek? BRILLIANT!
I think we as Trekkies..Trekkers..whatever would concur that several of the other movies are better…in our own little circle..TWOK, TVH, FC,
TFF(oops a Shatner fave)…but to the mainstream audience with the exception of teh whales, falter for whatever reason.
Perhapas they focus on TREK and not on the limited imagination of a mainstream audience…
Other TREKS didn’t have constant action, sex, etc… they had more interaction between the characters, some ad nauseum, but that was TREK at it’s best…interaction….
TREK09 had less character interaction…though Spock-Sarek was
pretty good..
Non Trekkers need more flash, more explosions, more cleavage….the story is less important….
JJ has played on that aspect, though enough of the old stuff was thrown in to appease the old fans…
My choice would be James Cameron…this man does not miss…T2, Aliens, Titantic…
#140 … If Shat sees the new movie with Leonard (he seemed like he’d be open to it if Leonard “held his hand”) … will you allow me to screen the movie for you? I’ll hold your hand. It’ll be ok. :-)
@ 134 “There are tons of potenital villains, tholians, gorn, orions why not use them?”
Fair point! I actually hope they do go old school for the villian. Actually, thinking about it, wouldn’t a Tholian movie villan be really creepy? Big ass pig like weirdness would scare the crap out of everyone! But just not Khan…. yet! Gorn would be awesome.
@144. James Cameron hasn’t missed…. yet. Avatar looks pretty crap to me. But then I’m just basing that on the preview. However, I would say that most people and critics alike now find Titanic highly overrated.
Haha, Imagine what Clint Eastwood would do?
He’d probly knock it outta the park. Make us feel for the characters like JJ couldn’t ever.
Now, there’s a director who does not miss…
#144 “TREK09 had less character interaction…though Spock-Sarek was
pretty good..”
I think for it being their first time out, the character interaction was VERY good. Yes, Spock-Sarek was great, and unexpectedly touching. But I would add Spock-Amanda, Kirk-Spock, Kirk-Spock Prime, Kirk-Pike, Kirk-McCoy, and even Nero-Spock to the list of character duos who played off each other well.
I think it’s sweet that Leonard has said he shed tears of happiness when he saw the introduction scene between Kirk and McCoy. :)
Jonathan Frakes would be wonderful for ST09. Him or James Cameron…yeah, I know, it’s very unlikely on both counts, but still. Both have proven that they can do intelligent, emotional action films very well (respectively, First Contact and Terminator 2: Judgement Day). And if Cameron were signed, there’d be legions of his fans that might not have seen ST09 saying “Hmm…I think I’ll check this out.” Say hello to $500 million at the box office.
“90. Roddenberry Worshiper – August 23, 2009
I also agree with all the comments about no Khan. That belonged to one actor and was handled very creatively in its day. Let the character rest. Lets try to come up with a fresh villain shall we? I’m sure those now entrusted with Star Trek’s legacy will be able to come up with something the fans will enjoy and appreciate on that front.”
If Kirk doesn’t belong to one actor, then Khan doesn’t either.
A large part of the excitement surrounding Star Trek 09 was its director. Not to take anything away from Frakes, he has done good work in the past, but it would hardly ignite the general public with excitement if he were chosen as the director of Star Trek XII. He’s not a big name.
James Cameron, of course, would do a killer job, but I doubt Trek could ever land him. He’s in his own league. Trek needs inventive young directors who are really hitting their creative stride, like JJ, Favreau or Del Toro. All solid choices.
James Cameron is something like Stanley Kubrick was. Stylistically they are nothing alike, but they both pretty much do their own thing now, so I doubt Cameron would be interested in Star Trek.
And although Ridley Scott and Clint Eastwood are both great directors (Gran Torino was fantastic; I was stunned by the ending), I’m just not feeling them connected with Star Trek. It would be a like a really long bad date.
Del Toro would be good, and I have to say Steven Spielberg, because the man has still not lost that youthful energy and sense of life that Star Trek needs, and he can still do action equal to or better than anybody. You give Steven Spielberg a great script, and he will return to you a great movie.
Now it looks like Spielberg is attached to Transformers 3, so maybe he’s not so unrealistic a choice for the Star Trek sequel as I first thought.
So he would have to be my first pick. I would push for Steven Spielberg harder than for anyone else, because the man has the spirit of Star Trek and he’s still a brilliant director, and let’s face it, the man’s name alone is publicity.
So with Spielberg you have the right attitude, enormous skill and credibility, and a name that will keep the buzz going for the duration of the sequel’s production. Sounds like a happy marriage to me.
My dream director for a Star Trek movie at this point would be Brad Bird, with Pixar providing all (and I do mean all) the visuals. And it would be a trilogy :)
Hey, I can dream.
152… Well, Mr. Bird is doing a live-action movie about the San Francisco Earthquake, so who knows…
#151 … I had no idea The Berg was considering directing Transformers 3. He of course would be another dream choice for Trek!
#152 … I do hope Trek returns to animation in some form at some point. That’d be awesome!
I’ve always been bothered by the distinction between great movies and great STAR TREK movies. Star Trek fans don’t usually have the objectivity of general audiences, so when we love a Star Trek movie, it isn’t necessarily because the movie was great, but because it was great STAR TREK.
But why can’t we have both? I’ve dreamed of that for a long time. And this is the first Star Trek movie that had more ambition than pre-existing fans of the franchise were interested in.
So I’m hoping that Bob, Alex, and JJ will establish a new tradition of making great movies that happen to be Star Trek as well. And to do that they will need a series of talented directors.
Star Trek will be in a tenuous position again if the sequel bombs. A master like Spielberg could keep it on course. So for the sequel I would favor a more experienced hand at making good movies that also do great at the box office.
Question is, would he be available?
And this is one of those things I’ll bet you won’t hear a peep out of Bob about until there are signed papers! Sigh….the patience a Star Trek fan needs to have…
Delighted to find that one of my local cinemas has brought Trek ‘09 back for a limited run- needless to say I was straight there and got my tenth viewing in. And I loved it more than ever. All the same feelings and emotions that I got way back on 8th May were still there. Amazing.
154: “#151 … I had no idea The Berg was considering directing Transformers 3.”
Check imdb. Details are on Pro only, which I do not have. He’s attached in some capacity. Does not say in what capacity.
Let James Cameron direct the next one. He just said that he is a fan. I would love to see what kind of Star Trek he would make!
56: “However, I think that the worst chance encounter is when Kirk just happens to be marooned on the same planet as Spock Prime;”
I don’t think it takes belief in extreme coincidences to accept that Kirk was marooned on the same planet as Spock.
Spock was marooned so that Spock could see Vulcan destroyed.
Kirk was marooned after Vulcan had been destroyed.
The Narada was in the neighborhood of Vulcan, and the Enterprise, answering Vulcan’s distress call, of course entered that neighborhood as well.
So if the number of habitable planets in that neighborhood was low, or if that was the only one, or closest one to Vulcan, then the odds that both would be marooned on the same planet would actually be high.
All of James Cameron’s work, at least from Terminator on, has really strong female lead characters. So you’d probably have to bump up Uhura’s role a few notches to attract him. Or create another strong female lead. But I would prefer NOT to see a strong female lead other than Uhura if that would have the effect of giving Uhura less to do.
It’s Uhura’s turn. Let her shine.
Cameron has a bunch of stuff in the pipe whose details are hidden.
Another way to attract Cameron is to set the Star Trek story near water. The man LOVES water.
STXII: Yes Shatner, no Khan. Please.
I’ll throw something out there, what if JJ said no to directing, what about Nicholas Meyer? Wouldn’t that be amazing , also if it was Khan, for Meyer to come full circle again?
164: “what if JJ said no to directing, what about Nicholas Meyer? Wouldn’t that be amazing…”
I would crap my pants if that happened. And not in a good way.
160. duncan… do you even realize how big a planet is?
@166: Being marooned on the same planet doesn’t seem farfetched, but maybe being marooned so close to each other on that planet would be a stretch. Then again, maybe not. Odd things happen, whatever the reason or cause.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/5511619/14-year-old-hit-by-30000-mph-space-meteorite.html
http://www.insidebayarea.com/ci_12967952
Here’s another. I could find a million of ‘em.
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/weird/Swapping-kidneys–54603002.html
And what about the odd story of Edgar Allan Poe and Richard Parker?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Parker_(shipwrecked)
So, coincidence or not, stranger things have happened.
dmduncan and others,
check b’orci guys: the subtext was that the universe was “trying to fix itself” by landing kirk and spock together. that’s wacky science, but a real valentine to the world of trek. suspending your disbelief because you love the characters and want to see them together was the point, and creative fiction allows for that, as does history, as dmduncan has demonstrated.
it’s far weirder than i met this girl in berlin and found her again in new york, numberswise, than a mere planetary trekian coincidence. glad it happened, though.
and ger, asking anyone if they know “how big a planet is” strikes me as, gee, kind of condescending. maybe it’s just me though. i’ve had complaints.
#167, & #168
I’ll give you an “A” for effort but trying to map probabilities in the vastness of space covered by two warp traveling ships on different trajectories and arrival times to the same coordinates with each one ejecting a prisoner (one by escape pod and the other by transporter) at different times before each ship reaches that final destination to the coincidences that can occur on the limited surface area of planet amongst a population in excess of 6 billion is patently absurd. Almost as absurd as Nero with his vastly superior sensors not realizing that he “marooned” Spock within walking distance of a Federation facility equipped with enough resources that the ever resourceful Spock might extricate himself from being a “captive” audience.
Re 91 Cugel the Clever
ummm, no. I am not using a code word for wanting cardboard sets, etc. You are so clever and know so much that is not true. Nor do I want Shatner in the next movie. What I meant was a movie truer to Roddenberry´s vision of various social commentary and a hopeful future. But it must be nice to feel so clever. I think it would be nicer if you would ask what is meant rather than make assumptions, and insulting ones at that.
171: Actually, it all depends on what assumptions you make.
Kirk was ejected AFTER Vulcan was destroyed, Spock was marooned BEFORE. The Enterprise certainly did not look like it was at warp speed at the moment it ejected Kirk, so regardless of what speed the Enterprise was traveling when Spock gave the order to remove Kirk, they would have had to slow down, and find a suitable place, to eject him.
As far as the trajectories are concerned, Spock’s command of “Get him off this ship” wasn’t a command to toss Kirk out into space, but to maroon him on A planet. Since it is impossible to say from the movie what direction Nero was heading towards Vulcan FROM when he marooned Spock, or what detour he had to take in order to maroon him from his initial direction of travel, or what direction Spock was heading TOWARDS the Laurentian system from after Vulcan was destroyed, or what detour Spock had to make to get rid of Kirk from HIS initial direction of travel, YOU would have to assume first that they were two totally different directions, and second that there were more planetary options in the neighborhood for both Nero and Spock to maroon their respective nuisances on.
But if we assume there were no other options, then Kirk and Spock would have been marooned on exactly the same planets of necessity. The Narada was already AT Vulcan and had already marooned Spock when the Enterprise arrived, and the Enterprise needed a suitable place close by, so that for both the Narada AND the Enterprise a detour would probably have been necessary to maroon Spock and Kirk, IF the Narada arrived at Vulcan AND the Enterprise departed from Vulcan in two very different directions, AND only one planet was close enough and suitable. So a detour to the nearest suitable planet would have been necessary for both ships, and if it was much closer than the next nearest alternative, then that’s where the Narada and the Enterprise BOTH would have gone.
As for probabilities. Each time the mathematically improbable happens, the probability of it NOT happening reduces to zero.
However absurd the probabilities may seem, incredible “coincidences,” if indeed they are that, do happen.
OR we can just assume that Federation escape pods have onboard computer guidance systems that try to lock on to the closest Federation base via its transponder signal. Being as it is not a particularly habitable planet the pod landed as close as it could to the base. Since there was only ONE base on Delta Vega it would make sense.
Sorry, thinkin like a trekker… :)
hello kittens. physics didn’t put kirk and spock together on a planet. writers did. for us. think about it.
in the same way. i guess, that chekov “found” khan, that kirk “found” his gaseous honey-smelling nemesis, that the enterprise keeps finding crucial, galactic impacting shit, in the same same way that all of here “found” star trek instead of laugh-in at the (was it?) 8:00pm time slot in circa ‘68.
i worry, sometimes.
however, i like the way the angry klingon (#174) thinks. for fun.
aw hell. i like how y’all think anyway.
2012 is too long to wait, the flavor will be gone by then. JJ Abrams and crew: You did a great job with Star Trek. I loved the movie but the truth is that Trek is by it’s nature, an unendingly ongoing project that to many people, represents much more than entertainment–especially now while our world is so screwed up. As far as Trek is concerned though, the truth is that you either love it……or don’t. If you don’t love it, you can’t take care of it in which case I wouldn’t mind if you personally selected another director with equal talent and vision to work on the film. My reason for this is 100% selfish, being only because I value Star Trek and want somebody to take care of it because they want to. Thank you.
i have switched polls, TWOK won movie poll, with ST09 as clear 2nd and FC and TUC about tied for third
New Poll, wait for JJ and 2012 or go ahead with 2011 and new director
(if scenario is that JJ not available to direct sequel for 2011)
#174,
Except the Federation of the period’s computers, while making great strides in voice recognition/translation, fell a little short in A.I.
Wouldn’t the escape pod just as likely zero in on the location of the larger Federation civilization of the planet Vulcan which was supposed to be there rather than an isolated base? I doubt Nero wasted time picking off every Federation marker buoy and satellite in the system?
And the on screen imagery would tend to indicate that Delta Vega was close enough that it had to be part of planetary binary system with the planet Vulcan.
The on-screen depiction also seemed to indicate that the artificial black holes evaporated almost as fast as they propagated gravity, i.e. faster than the speed of light. That would definitely wreak havoc on DV’s orbit and the pod’s attempts to safely land there. Heck, even if they weren’t binary to get that kind of view from DV’s surface they had to be close enough to affect DV’s orbital mechanics.
And if you want to go with no evaporation you have to concede that the effective mass created somehow by ignited red matter to generate a black hole capable of swallowing the entirety of Vulcan would throw everything off. And you have to remember its gravity somehow propagates faster than the speed of light so you can expect changes in the orbital dynamics much quicker than normal.
You have to admit under either scenario that guidance computer had to make one heck of a Hail Mary pass to get anywhere near the planet DV let alone the outpost given the shifts the Vulcan system had to be experiencing.
#173,
You seem to be suggesting that the Federation would have had in place standard approaches to star systems and that Nero would have been following one to maintain an element of surprise. I can buy that. But the orbital bodies around a star in a stellar system aren’t static. You come in at one time and they are in one position. You come in at a later time and they’ve moved in their own rotation and orbit.
And I just haven’t heard any good reasoning for why Nero had to absolutely get Spock off the Narada? If the whole point of destroying Vulcan was out and out revenge, wouldn’t it have been more satisfying for the revenger to drag the revengee’s sorry-ass out to the Narada’s drilling platform in the Vulcan atmosphere so that both could watch the horror up close and in Technicolor?
What’s that old saw? “Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.”
And shouldn’t the introduction of that artificial black hole with its faster than light gravity have thrown the whole orbital dynamics of the celestial bodies near the planet Vulcan out of whack? Or at least askew enough that acting-captain Spock instead of looking for excuses to dump people on Delta Vega should have scanned the planet and retrieved the humanoid life forms there as “survivors” of the Vulcan attack?
FRAKES gets Trek:
I think what Frakes gets really is the Next Generation. I’m not sure I would want to see him direct a new-TOS movie. I would love to see him direct a newTNG film though. Hell, if they want to make more money, just have Picard fight against Mirror-Universe Shatner!
180: “But the orbital bodies around a star in a stellar system aren’t static. You come in at one time and they are in one position. You come in at a later time and they’ve moved in their own rotation and orbit.”
That’s true, but if there are traffic lanes to identify known from unknown visitors in a star system, it wouldn’t matter, and because Starships are very fast, the distances between planets within a star system are insignificant.
“And shouldn’t the introduction of that artificial black hole with its faster than light gravity have thrown the whole orbital dynamics of the celestial bodies near the planet Vulcan out of whack?”
There will always be a need for suspension of disbelief. There are no lightning storms in space either. So some things are purely poetic license.
But I think the coincidences many people have pointed out are not particularly hard to accept. We also don’t know how habitable the entire planet of Delta Vega was. The area where Kirk, Spock, and the outpost all existed might have been one of the areas of greatest safety, which is why the outpost was placed there. Nero didn’t want Spock to die, so he could have placed him there specifically so he would survive. Same thing for Kirk. And as for the outpost and Spock’s possible escape, why would Nero have cared? He was about to destroy Vulcan, and then Earth, and then each Federation world in turn. He thought his ship was unstoppable. And if Spock hadn’t got Kirk back aboard the Enterprise, Nero would have been successful.
So I’m not denying the need to explain some things as poetic license, but other things, like the “coincidences,” are not that hard to buy. Much weirder things happen in reality.
I should add, of course, that any so called “traffic lanes” would have to be established as a relationship between stars, e.g., between Sol and Proxima Centauri and/or seasonally according to the system’s habitable planet so that regardless of where the planet is in relation to its star for a given season, an approach pattern can be established with regard to a particular season even when the planet is not in that season.
#96 “For crying out loud we don’t need Khan, Star Trek isn’t about major villains this isn’t Bond.
“To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before”
..going boldly where none have gone before is usually where we encounter these villains to begin with. You can’t help but smile when Kirk defeats the likes of Ron Tracy, arrogant romans, nasty evil Klingons and telekenetic followers of Plato. Bring em on! I love a good villain!
#183.
True. But these approaches would all be geared to the one planet primary to the system’s trade routes, Vulcan not Delta Vega.
Hmmm…this would seem to commit the production to Delta Vega and Vulcan orbiting each other as a binary system.
But that would mean Nero comes in standard, breaks approach to match DV’s surface speed so he can safely beam down Spock as established in TNG, then begins his attack on Vulcan. It just seems like an unnecessary contrivance when, if Nero leaves Spock on-board the Narada , he can force him to watch the destruction of both his home worlds and not just the one.
And it seems unconscionable that after a major engagement like that, Enterprise wasn’t scanning the entire Vulcan system for survivors (Which by the way was their initial mission on approach: assist and rescue survivors of some unexplained natural disaster in the Vulcan system) and somehow missed the three humanoids on DV?
And even if Enterprise didn’t have its initial mission, wouldn’t it have been a matter of simple military expediency to gather and interview any intelligent lifeforms remaining in the area to maximize the intelligence data Spock was intending bring to the attention of the fleet?
As for isolated patches of habitability on DV, the bulk of the the two indigenous lifeforms encountered would argue against that. For them to maintain that large and massive a body under those harsh conditions argues for their stomping grounds to be wider and not smaller or isolated. And I still think trying to map the number of coincidences that occur on Earth within its population of over 6 billion to that of Delta Vega with its population of four is a bit more of a stretch than should be allowed under a good science-fiction yarn’s construction.
And while it makes every bit of sense for Spock Prime, given his experience in the Prime Universe, to assume that these amazing coincidences may be the result of this new universe’s time-line attempting to “heal”, it will force the narrative down roads the writers didn’t intend to explore if his explanation is left to stand.
185: “As for isolated patches of habitability on DV, the bulk of the the two indigenous lifeforms encountered would argue against that. For them to maintain that large and massive a body under those harsh conditions argues for their stomping grounds to be wider and not smaller or isolated.”
Actually, we would be considering the zone of habitability for humanoids, not for indigenous life forms, which would be much wider.
“And while it makes every bit of sense for Spock Prime, given his experience in the Prime Universe, to assume that these amazing coincidences may be the result of this new universe’s time-line attempting to “heal”, it will force the narrative down roads the writers didn’t intend to explore if his explanation is left to stand.”
Or maybe the writers intentionally left themselves some wiggle room to change things if this or that element didn’t play as well as they thought it would.
And really, there’s no way to say the probabilities were low or high without making certain assumptions, and those assumptions will affect the outcome, the most important question being why the outpost was put exactly where it was. You would have to assume there was no compelling reason to put it there rather than somewhere else, which would make both Kirk and Spock’s marooned proximity to it very unusual. But if there was a compelling reason to put it there, that might also be the same reason why Kirk and Spock were put in close proximity as well.
The real reason, of course is what pock speared said: That’s where they ended up because that’s where the writers put them.
But if we want to stay away from reality a little longer, we could still say that we’d need to know a lot more either way to say the coincidences were extraordinary.
Indeed, perhaps Nero really did not want Spock to die but for him to live as long as possible with the knowledge that his world had been destroyed, so Nero put him close enough to the Starfleet station precisely so that he might find it or be rescued.
Nero was obviously tortured by the destruction of his world, and maybe he wanted Spock to feel the same way. Did you notice Nero’s expression at the end when his ship was being destroyed? He was ready to die, no complaints, as if he was ready for it all to be over.
Jimmy Smits is about 6′3″.
I THINK LEAVE JJ AS PRODUCER AND HAVE JONATHAN FRAKES OR LEONARD NEMOY OR ANY OF THE OTHER ACTORS OF STAR TREK DIRECT AND YES LEAVE KHAN ALONE THEY SOULD DO THEIR OWN STUFF
185: “And even if Enterprise didn’t have its initial mission, wouldn’t it have been a matter of simple military expediency to gather and interview any intelligent lifeforms remaining in the area to maximize the intelligence data Spock was intending bring to the attention of the fleet?”
Why would the Enterprise have had reason to suspect 3 humanoids on DV had intelligence data that the Enterprise, which was a witness to Vulcan’s destruction and in direct contact with the Narada, did not have? In addition, Spock just lost his planet AND his mother, and was suppressing his emotions. His immediate reaction was to carry out Captain Pike’s last order to rendezvous with the rest of the fleet in the Laurentian system, which is the PASSIONATE disagreement Kirk had with Spock that got Kirk booted off the ship, NOT to stick around nitpicking the brains of 3 anonymous humanoids on another planet with a known MANNED Starfleet outpost that he had no reason to suspect had any information he needed; Vulcans are a part of the Federation, and one lone Vulcan on DV near a Starfleet outpost would not seem like interesting information, especially not since Spock saw a greater need to regroup with the fleet to respond to the Narada’s threat.
I mean, if your sensors detect a Vulcan near a known, manned Starfleet outpost on DV, you will probably assume, especially given the immediate circumstances, that he is attached to the outpost in some capacity.
dmduncan
“Nero was obviously tortured by the destruction of his world, and maybe he wanted Spock to feel the same way.”
yes, that was clear to me, crystal.
spock prime’s surprise when he asked “and you are not the captain?” seemed to motivate everything. as if spock suddenly realized that things were more screwed up than even he imagined they could be.
nero left spock to mope and suffer. kirk’s arrival snapped him out of it quickly.
the real fun there, and it seems many missed it, is that spock put kirk ON dv and spock got his ass OFF OF dv with the same amount of urgency, and let’s face it, emotion. (and i imagine in much the same way way we would treat our younger selves if we had the chance. tee. hee.)
#151 –
Did you really, intentionally, just compare Cameron to Kubrick?!?!
As for Spielberg: Sure, he would add huge prestige just by his presence. Possibly overshadowing Trek itself. But he doesn’t always hit it out of the park, so to speak. Witness what he did to War of the Worlds: remade a legit sci-fi classic into a schmaltzy vehicle for Cruise. And witness what he did with AI: turned an unfinished Kubrick film into a schmaltzy “ET lite” movie, IMHO not what Kubrick had envisioned. I’m not debating his directorial chops. His shot construction is among the best, ever. But his ventures into sci-fi, again in my opinion, have been so-so.
#190 –
Ever notice the Caps Lock key? Try using it sometime……
“To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before”
That slogan no longer applies after a reboot to where we already have been before, doesn’t it?
Before I forget and move on: since this started as a Quinto thread, let me state how much I enjoyed and appreciated his performance. He nailed it, dead on, and I loved every minute of it. Props to the writers for giving him such great material to work with.
#196 -
That slogan, based on the reboot, is very relevant. We haven’t been here before…… Sorry you missed that point, or choose to ignore it. Or choose to pout, excessively, on this site.
Maybe you would be happier with “To Boldly Go Where No Star Trek (Canon Is Everything) Fanboy Would Ever Dare To Go (Because It’s Not My Star Trek, Dammit, Waa….Waa)”
194: “Did you really, intentionally, just compare Cameron to Kubrick?!?!”
Yes, because they are similar in one regard, well, maybe two: 1. Cameron pretty much chooses his own directorial projects now. He’s not very prolific a director, though he is involved in various projects in other capacities. And Kubrick was like that. So I have trouble seeing Cameron as director of any Star Trek sequel now unless he is personally interested in a Star Trek project. So although I LIKE James Cameron, I don’t think it will happen. But I’d be happy to be proven wrong.
2. Cameron, like Kubrick, was also a technical experimenter. Cameron even more so than Kubrick, actually, since Cameron had to create new technology to do Avatar. Cameron has always been technically innovative and full of grand ideas and how to execute them. And he’s like Kubrick in that regard.
Stylistically, and content wise, they are radically different. I’m not that much of a fan of Kubrick anymore, though I still enjoy Dr. Strangelove. After recently viewing 2001 again, I don’t think it held up well over time. His tedious fascination with futuristic machinery in that film was boring.
Aliens, on the other hand, is STILL a good movie. So though people rave about Kubrick’s art, I think he was a quirky director more than a great director.
And I’m aware that Spielberg can be erratic. That’s why I also said that if you give him a great script he’ll give you a great movie. And if you give any director a not so good script, Spielberg among them, Spielberg will probably make the best movie out of it than anyone else.
Even Spielberg’s not so good movies are interesting.
So I think Spielberg’s the man. I would love to see that happen for Star Trek.
I mean the point up until the monkey man throws the bone and we get the point that the bone (tool) becomes a spaceship (tool) was brilliant. But I got the ballet of machinery idea in a minute, and dragging it on for another 10 was just painful. Maybe people thought that stuff was cool in the sixties, but when I saw it recently, all I could think of was how badly that film needed some radical editing to get it to its proper length of about 30 minutes.
#191
A Federation outpost with a ringside seat NOT gathering data? What kind of STAR TREK is this? Incredulously that appears to be what the audience is expected to believe as exemplified by Scotty’s apparent cluelessness (He didn’t even appear to know that Enterprise was in the vicinity and yet the outpost had sensors good enough to track Enterprise at warp and transwarp transport to her.) But I believe Spock Prime has always been portrayed up to this point as expecting Federation personal to perform at maximum efficiency and being almost naively shocked when they somehow manage to fail to do so? Is there any reason to expect acting-captain Spock to deviate from this tendency?
“…NOT to stick around nitpicking the brains of 3 anonymous humanoids on another planet…” – dmduncan
I agree. But it IS another reason for him to retrieve the 3 humanoids, i.e. so that interrogation could occur on the way. Besides, under TWOK rule of planets drifting out of their habitable zones when a nearby one is disposed-of he could have been leaving those survivors to their doom when his original mission was rescue – bad form at the very least.
@175. Lol! I love that! haha!
Speilberg would be pretty awesome i’d say.
He would probably “get it”. And plus, didn’t he visit the set during the production to wish J.J. Abrams and the team good luck for the project?
Maybe that means that he is a fan of the show already?
I think J.J. will more likely then not direct the next Star Trek. I mean, it was one of the best reviewed films of 2009 and he got world-wide praise for how he dealt with the movie. And there’s Oscar Award nomination whispers from serious places about it. So I think he is the most likely candidate for the role again. Which is cool.
201: “A Federation outpost with a ringside seat NOT gathering data? What kind of STAR TREK is this?”
Whatever that outpost was there for it wasn’t for keeping an eye on Vulcan because Scotty did not appear to know Vulcan had been destroyed at all. He was more concerned about getting sandwiches. Right? It was a “punishment” post, whatever it’s mission, which would not have been desirable to most people.
“But it IS another reason for him to retrieve the 3 humanoids,”
I don’t think I would have wasted any time on DV either after what the Narada had done to Vulcan. A crazed Romulan with a powerful Starship and the ability to destroy whole worlds is not something you’d want to save for later. And why would you think that outpost had any information, removed from the incident, that you didn’t have being up close and personal to it? In addition, they are a Starfleet outpost and presumably have communications ability to alert Starfleet should any problems arise, and there certainly weren’t any issues of note by the time Kirk and Scotty beamed out of there.
I mean the fact that Spock marooned Kirk on Delta Vega is a good argument that Spock did not believe the planet was in imminent danger at all.
#204
like putting your hysterical girlfriend on a lovely, desert island.
you can always pick her up later. after you party with the romulans.
i vote trek sequel by next thursday, or the week after that. it could be about the “health reform wars” on “new vulcan”… very passionate, VERY topical.
Oh hows this- Shatner returning as Kirk from the evil mirror universe! :P
Now that would be funny and he could ham it up as he always does.
#203 “In addition, they are a Starfleet outpost and presumably have communications ability to alert Starfleet should any problems arise…” – dmduncan
Communications? What communications? I thought communications being out was one of the reasons for Enterprise’s original mission to the Vulcan system? And wasn’t the fact that subspace netmeeting was kerflooie the whole reason Enterprise had to physically rendezvous with the fleet in the Laurentian system?
You are also forgetting that a major battle had concluded at Vulcan BEFORE Enterprise arrived. That was what all that debris was. It definitely would have been of strategic importance to know Nero’s method of approach, targets, tactics, et cetera, et cetera in THAT battle before running off to the Laurentian system to plan to hit him with another armada. As it was Spock was rendezvousing with only the specifics of how the Narada dealt with one ship (Didn’t Pike mention there being a thesis on that already?) instead of the multitudes that had just been eviscerated. How could Spock, who always had a disdain for insufficient data, not taken some time to gather the other ships captain’s logs or the Federation equivalent of flightrecorders to take to a meeting to plan Nero’s defeat?
Also the fact was that Delta Vega was involved. And there was an intelligence asset on the planet with key information on Nero’s motivations and weaponry. I think acting-captain Spock’s debriefing of his actions at the Vulcan system in this light would be interesting (Perhaps it would go something along the line of Ben Sisko’s in TRIALS AND TRIBBLE-ATIONS?).
Classic young Spock would have been written as able to deduce DV had a role, i.e. for some reason the Narada made a swing by it and beamed someone down before starting its attack, probably from something as little as a fluctuation in the planet’s ionosphere – but I digress.
#204 “I mean the fact that Spock marooned Kirk on Delta Vega is a good argument that Spock did not believe the planet was in imminent danger at all.” – dmduncan
Maybe it was too bad Spock Prime came up with that transporter escape?
STAR TREK XII:THE WRATH OF KIRK has a certain ring to it. ;-)
208: “I thought communications being out was one of the reasons for Enterprise’s original mission to the Vulcan system?”
The communications were out because Nero’s energy beam drill thingy was disrupting both communications and transporter ability. That’s why Kirk and Sulu would not have been able to beam up unless they were successful in shutting down the drill. After the drill was off, comm and transporter function was reestablished.
208: “You are also forgetting that a major battle had concluded at Vulcan BEFORE Enterprise arrived. That was what all that debris was. It definitely would have been of strategic importance to know Nero’s method of approach, targets, tactics, et cetera, et cetera in THAT battle before running off to the Laurentian system to plan to hit him with another armada.”
Spock would have called 23rd century CSI, who would have spent a month chasing debris around the solar system, and then they would have put together a detailed picture of what happened, and then 23rd century CSI would have warped back to Earth with the information, and then they would have got sucked into a black hole where the Earth used to be, and then the pilot would have turned to the co-pilot and said, “I guess we should’ve seen this one coming,” while the copilot broke into a bad rendition of Johnny Cash’s “Ring of Fire.”
“That’s why Kirk and Sulu would not have been able to beam up unless they were successful in shutting down the drill. After the drill was off, comm and transporter function was reestablished.”
Yet a few hours later they were able to beam across half the solar system onto the Narada while the beam was still activated.
211: “Yet a few hours later they were able to beam across half the solar system onto the Narada while the beam was still activated.”
Great Saturn’s BALLS!!! You are right, sir!
That obviously means the transporter cancelling effect of the death drill was limited to the immediate vicinity of the Narada, and that the transporter equipment works perfectly given enough distance from the drill.
So had they moved away from Vulcan, they would have been able to beam them onto the drill?
And through the Narada’s shield, I might add.
Re. the drill beam…
Doesn’t Chekov, in devising the plan to sneak onto the Narada, specifically say they can do it if the drill has not yet been activated?
214: “Doesn’t Chekov, in devising the plan to sneak onto the Narada, specifically say they can do it if the drill has not yet been activated?”
Good question. And I don’t remember. Since it’s still playing at a local cheapo cinema house, I may have to go this weekend for a 6th visit to find an answer.
Wait a second…I THINK you are right. I think they DID beam aboard either before the drill was lowered, or while they were in the process of lowering it.
But I will check this weekend to be sure.
Meanwhile, somebody revoke ger’s fan credentials and send him horseless into the desert.
“Meanwhile, somebody revoke ger’s fan credentials and send him horseless into the desert.”
Done. He’s now on Nimbus III, digging holes with J’onn.
@216: Thank you.
We need a squad of large out of shape Trekkies dressed as Klingons, who will pay visits to these so called “fans”——pfft! don’t make me chortle——and confiscate their collectibles if they don’t uphold the high standards of fanhood expected of all Starfleet regulation Trekkies.
The NERVE of that ger! I’ll bet he doesn’t even wear an Enterprise uniform (any era) while posting on this site!
#199 -
As for the Kubrick/Cameron debate, I guess we’ll just have respectfully agree to disagree. Personal taste is just that, to each his own. It’s all subjective, which is why I put so little faith in film critics.
To one point though, I must disagree:
“2. Cameron, like Kubrick, was also a technical experimenter. Cameron even more so than Kubrick, actually, since Cameron had to create new technology to do Avatar. Cameron has always been technically innovative and full of grand ideas and how to execute them. And he’s like Kubrick in that regard. ”
Kubrick was at least as innovative, and thinking outside the box, as Cameron. And in many ways different, and possibly more. Kubrick was innovative in cameras, lenses, lighting, shot layout. Cameron has been innovative in CGI/CG. Which do you prefer?
Yeah, duncan, you’re right I’m the nerd here. So go ahead and watch that Star Trek movie a 6th time and then continue posting between 15-20% of all the messages in these talkbacks. ;-)
219: “Cameron has been innovative in CGI/CG. Which do you prefer?”
Cameron actually created a special 3D camera for Avatar, along with his performance capture system.
And his preparation for shooting underwater for The Abyss was extraordinary. Watch the Special Features of the SE DVD of The Abyss.
@220: Are you offended by the nerd werd?
And yeah, I post a lot. It’s a much cheaper way to express my fan urges than buying every franchise related toy or action figure in triplicate, especially since I’m often doing other computer work at the same time.
#221 -
Never knew he was such a genius! I’m sure he was totally involved in the engineering of such technology, or was it the team he hired? And it only took 15 years to produce a film that looks like a video game from two years ago? His patent rights alone must be enormous!
Again, only time will tell. I’ll lay a bet right now that Kubrick’s body of work and legacy will far surpass Cameron’s.
222: “Never knew he was such a genius! I’m sure he was totally involved in the engineering of such technology, or was it the team he hired?”
Just as every film every commercial film director, at least, makes is made using a wide variety of experts at their craft but we still credit the director for the film in its entirety. No one is suggesting that James Cameron was the engineer. He was the impetus behind the effort, so he gets credit for gettin’ it done.
“And it only took 15 years to produce a film that looks like a video game from two years ago?”
Oh that’s totally unfair. You do have to see it in 3D to come to a fair judgment about what he did or did not accomplish, as the people who have seen pieces of it in 3D are suggesting. We’ll just have to wait and see if what the people are saying is true about how extraordinary it looks in 3D.
And even NOT having seen it in 3D, saying it looks like a 2 year old video game is wide off the mark. It looks like excellent CGI, but it doesn’t look mind blowing. We’ll just have to wait and see. But it’s certainly not fair to judge a 3D movie made using new technology from a 2D trailer.
“I’ll lay a bet right now that Kubrick’s body of work and legacy will far surpass Cameron’s.”
Everyone will have to judge that on their own. Kubrick was certainly more serious about his “art” than Cameron, but my personal opinion is that the end result Kubrick achieved was largely overrated. I thought 2001 had one of the truly great moments of cinema, and the rest of it was too long.
#204.
But doesn’t that reasoning force us to question fresh Captain Kirk’s decision to haul that last surviving citizens of the planet Vulcan off to battle when he could have deposited them (or at the very least the children and their parents) on that cozy little winter haven stamped with Spock’s Good Logickeeping seal of approval for the duration of the conflict?
The Scene:
In the scene where Spock explains the plot to the audience during a mind meld with Kirk, he says a supernova went off that “threatened the galaxy”. We see a giant yellow star explode, and it destroys Romulus.
The Science:
That scene physically pained me; I just wrote a book with an entire chapter devoted to the damage supernovae can cause, and the movie pretty much screwed it all up.
First off, supernovae are exploding stars, and are incredibly violent events. They emit trillions of times as much energy as the Sun does, and can outshine entire galaxies. But for all that, the damage they do is local; you have to be within about 50 light years for them to physically hurt a planet. Past that, and they can’t even bruise our fragile ozone layer.
For one to destroy a planet, physically vaporize it, the planet would have to be orbiting the star that explodes! Even from a light year away a supernova can’t wipe out a planet like that. And remember, our galaxy is 100,000 light years across. A supernova is nowhere near strong enough to take out a whole galaxy.
Also, a supernova happens when a very massive star at the end of its life explodes. Stars like this are supergiants that are either red (like Betelgeuse) or blue-white (like Deneb). The star in the movie was yellow. I can’t say that would never happen, but as far as we know, yellow stars can’t blow.
Now, had Abrams called me, I would’ve told him to use a gamma-ray burst, not a supernova. GRBs are like super-supernovae, where instead of the explosion moving outward in a spherical shell, the energy is focused into twin beams of cosmic fury. These Blowtorches of Doom could easily set a plane aflame from even hundreds of light years away, and the special effect for it would’ve been a bazillion times cooler in the movie.
J. J., babe, call me next time!
Incidentally, Spock says he tried to stop the supernova by using red matter to create a black hole to absorb the explosion. That wouldn’t work; in fact in the center of many supernovae the star’s core collapses to a black hole. The outer layers of the stars have so much energy they easily explode outwards even though at the heart of the explosion sits a black hole. So either Spock was mistaken in his calculations (gasp! horror!), he was lying about trying to stop the explosion (hmmm, sequel anyone?), or the writers just screwed up this bit of science.
Place your bets here.
# 225 -
Uh, thanks. That’s all cool. I love watching “The Universe” on the History Channel. Very interesting stuff. But Star Trek is “science fiction/fantasy” entertainment, not a documentary. When I turn to Star Trek for entertainment, scientific accuracy is low on my list of demands.
You could write an entire thesis on the scientific inaccuracies, lies, and stuff just made up in the Star Trek franchise. Start with Warp Drive first, then analize every episode and film in the following 44 years.
My question is: are you a Trek fan? Has Trek entertained you over the past 44 years? Or are you incapable of turning of the “science geek” button when viewing fictional entertainment?
#225
I hear you.
People seem oblivious to the fact that even though we’ve been observing the heavens with telescopes for 400 years, we’ve been observing supernovas with the naked eye for far longer than that. To have the most science-oriented of the franchise’s characters, Spock Prime, spout that twaddle about a “special kind” of supernova just stretched the writing’s science-fiction cred, which had already been heading in this direction, over the line to that of a B-movie for me.
But you need to also bear in mind that these natural phenomena (supernovas & GRBs) have never been observed to propagate their disastrous effects faster than the speed of light, whereas these civilizations of the future that could be threatened by them have technology that does. It is hard to conceive of any circumstance where they simply would not have enough time to organize and simply get out of the way given the advanced lead time their probes and scans would give them in warning.
Now if they had written it as being artificially induced then I could cut them some slack as that would involve treknology and its an axiom of their mythos that they can, in effect, go faster than the speed of light.
#221, 223 -
You conveniently edit my original position: ” Kubrick was at least as innovative, and thinking outside the box, as Cameron. And in many ways different, and possibly more. Kubrick was innovative in cameras, lenses, lighting, shot layout. Cameron has been innovative in CGI/CG. Which do you prefer? ”
And, in retrospect, I should have added using actors and real sets, physical models and miniatures, real effects as opposed to CGI.
In response, you stated: ” Cameron actually created a special 3D camera for Avatar, along with his performance capture system. ” To your credit, you backed off this position.
Further, your “you have to see it in 3D” argument falls on deaf ears. If it looks fabulous in 3D, but the movie sucks, what then. Not even taking into account that most of us will not be able to see it in 3D. And frankly, after many, many years of hype from the man himself about photo-realistic 3D and game changing results….. sorry, I just don’t see it, in whatever “D” you choose. In the end, if I still see obvious CGI characters and sets glaringly juxtaposed with real actors and sets, how has the game changed? Lucas did that 10 years ago. Not worth all the hype, especially if the movie itself is not good. That has yet to be seen.
Finally, getting back to Kubrick: You seem to be stuck on 2001, yet ignore his other films. Like i said, compare his body of work to Cameron’s. And compare his influence on later films and directors, including Cameron himself, as well as Scorsece and Spielberg to name a few. You may not appreciate 2001 because it seems jaded to you, 41 years later. But you don’t acknowledge that that film changed sci-fi films forever, and raised the bar. That one film influenced every sci-fi film made since. Try viewing it again, with a non-jaded perspective.
What I admire most about Kubrick is that he didn’t limit himself to a genre. But he set the standard across the board. Paths of Glory, Spartacus, Dr Strangelove, 2001, Clockwork Orange, Barry Lyndon, The Shining, Full Metal Jacket, and even the underrated Eyes Wide Shut. Each time he put his mark on each genre he touched, and set a new standard. Quite a legacy.
I’ll give Cameron another 20 years, I challenge him to do better.
(Honestly, I’m just being polite for the sake of discussion. Your inclusion of Cameron in the same league as Kubrick is laughable, at best)
I really hope they don’t rush things, who ever the director ends up being.
We’ll all be waiting with baited breaths for the next installments for sure, but I think we’ll all be greatful in the long run if they just take their time to deliver quality pictures that we can all be happy with.
How about continuing from were it left off, and bring it back to tv as a rebooted 5 year mission in the changed time line everything is going to be different this time and yes if you want Khan you can do a redo of Space Seed, JJ can change it up a bit and have The Khans sleeper ship is found by another Federation star ship that Khan takes over and Enterprise has to save the day. Also you do not have to follow the sequence of the orginal series, things are different now in the new time line. No Volcan has to change a lot of things for the federation and the series of events that lead on. Old bad guy’s causing trouble, Romulan war, Klingon war, the missions that lead the Enterprise and crew to be one of the fastest, most famous flag ships in the fleet. How Kirk developed to be a pain in Klingons back and most hated enemy. Romulan civil war, to purge emotion and be like the volcans or not and a closer relationship to the federation eventually leading to an all out war with the federation.
I am very happy to hear that another incarnation of Star Trek is in the works. Right now the most important matter is ensuring that Star Trek does not die out; we may debate over various aspects of the latest film, and I will admit that – while I think it is an awesome movie – there are parts of the storyline which I don’t know if I am really keen on, but the overwhelmingly positive fact is that ST is once again on the big screen and in the forecasts.
I personally would kind of like to see more of the Enterprise E, though I am not suggesting more TNG. My preference would be to see the Star Trek timeline continue on with perhaps an entirely new third generation crew; as much as I appreciate the concept of time travel, I do not particularly like seeing it used as a tool to rewrite Trek Canon.
I don’t have all the answers, and I don’t have any strong objections to present cfourse; but I really hope that the producers, as we continue to move forward, take the time to realize that – as someone earlier said above – Star Trek is not just entertainment. In addition to being fun sci-fi, t must be treated seriously; there will always be good movies that we see and forget, but Star Trek is a legacy which we believe in, live by, and dream for.