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Malcolm McDowell: Kirk’s Death In Star Trek Generations Was “Very Poor” June 3, 2011

by TrekMovie.com Staff , Filed under: Feature Films (TMP-NEM) , trackback

Does anyone like how they killed Captain James T. Kirk in Star Trek: Generations? Fans certainly aren’t happy about it, and now the actor who pulled the trigger reveals he thought it was a "very poor" way to end Kirk’s legacy.

 

McDowell on killing Kirk

One of the biggest controversies in all of Star Trek is the death of James T. Kirk in Star Trek: Generations. Recently we heard from director David Carson on how he argued against the scene, and now we hear from the man who did the deed. In a new interview Malcolm McDowell, who played Dr. Soran in Generations, had this to say about killing Kirk:

Pose this one for me (to the powers that be): If you have—which they had—this icon of American television, why the hell didn’t they give him a spectacular death? Why did they give him such a really paltry death? Me shooting the bridge out or some BS whatever it was? They should have sent him off in a glorious fashion, and they didn’t. They missed an opportunity. …

Yeah, they re-shot. What did they reshoot? It was just as bad as the first one. And they spent several million dollars (on the reshoots). If you’re asking me, I thought it was poor, very poor, even the reshoot. They should have seen Shatner off in a big way.

I don’t care whose fault it was. Whoever came up with his death at the end, I thought it was really cheesy. I just think the man, whether you like him or not, should have been given a blazing death. And I, course, would have been happy to have supplied that. Look, I just think it was a missed opportunity for this great, iconic figure that everybody loved or everybody loathed. He was one of those great figures that caused dissention and debate and arguments.

He is right, of course.


McDowell and Shatner face off in "Star Trek: Generations"

More from McDowell at StarTrek.com.

Comments

1. GaryP - June 3, 2011

amen

2. I'm Dead Jim! - June 3, 2011

Maybe Kirk will go down in a blaze of glory in the JJ-verse.

3. FlyingWok - June 3, 2011

I think McDowell and Shatner need to get together with some of those special effects gurus that make those great indie shorts on YouTube (e.g. Minecraft: The Last Minecart, or Frozen Crossing), and do their own reshoot of Kirk’s death in Generations.

Shatner’s still pretty spry and McDowell is only 67 years young! They could totally do it!

4. Carl - June 3, 2011

Kirk shouldn’t have been killed in the first place! ‘Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country’ was a perfect finale for all the original cast and I don’t think they should have brought a few of them back for the next movie.

5. KDoug - June 3, 2011

I always thought that they should have left his final fate essentially untold. Don’t show his death at all. But, in order to do that without also having to deal with a living Kirk in the 24th century, they may have had to tell a much different story. Or, just scrap the idea of bringing together the two crews, skipping Generations and going straight to First Contact.

6. Dr. Cheis - June 3, 2011

Kirk should have died, but not like that…

7. Basement Blogger - June 3, 2011

I didn’t see the need to kill of Kirk anyway. It’s one of those things where once they get ot the movies, the filmmakers believe they have to do something big. Kill off Amanda, destroy Vulcan etc.

8. Lt. Bailey - June 3, 2011

In my opinion, who said he would have to die? Why could he not have lived out a long and productice life? But if he does have to die, it should have been better than what they wrote and/or re-shot.

At least in the novels written by Shatner, Kirk lives after this death in Generations aftyer Picard places the Starfleet Delta badge on Kirks grave. I will not reveal how Kirks lives, in case some one has not read his novels but I am Ok with it…mainly because Kirk gets to live.

9. Captain Hackett - June 3, 2011

Beautifully said, Malcolm! I could not agree with him more!

Damn you, Rick Berman!

10. Anthony Thompson - June 3, 2011

Malcolm would have preferred to commit “a bit of the old ultra-violence” on him. : )

11. Allenburch - June 3, 2011

I liked the movie…but Kirks death is a TERRIBLE wrong that absolutely needs to be corrected.

I like the thought of a Klingon going out in a blaze of combat, such as with Kor, but I still believe that the very best way for these prime characters to leave us is like a cowboy riding off endlessly into the setting sun….

Remember McCoy strolling down the hallway in the TNG opener or Scotty riding off in his shuttle in Relics?

12. Dee - lvs moon' surface - June 3, 2011

Kirk should not have died … at least I do not want to see Kirk being dead anymore! … right? JJAbrams, boborci, Lindelof and everyone involved in this story now? … :-):-)

13. Captain Hackett - June 3, 2011

Worst death scene in the history of Star Trek TV and movies and possibly one of all the movies!

14. CmdrR - June 3, 2011

Shat-Kirk should have died along the lines of George Kirk in JJTrek.
That, or boinking Rand’s 8 great-great-great grand nieces in a sonic shower.

11 — Also agreed. Hollywood’s going thru a lousy phase where we MUST see the beginnings and endings of every character, no matter how little that adds to the tale. Yuck! Just tell good stories!!

15. Buzz Cagney - June 3, 2011

I thought everybody loved Kirk but it was Bill who fairly evenly split opinion!

The man is correct on one thing though- Kirks death stunk on high.

16. I'm Cherokee Jack - June 3, 2011

Kirk didn’t need to die,and he didn’t need to die that way.You know you’ve gotten a bad send-off when even your “executioner” thought you went out badly.
When it came to torch-passing,Star Trek ’09 was light years better than Generations ’94

17. Robman007 - June 3, 2011

“Shat-Kirk should have died along the lines of George Kirk in JJTrek”

Exactly! Kirk’s fate was tied directly with the Enterprise. They planned on killing the Enterprise-D, why not do it in fashion with Jim Kirk sitting in the chair, saving the good Captain Picard and his crew from some Klingon menace. Something epic, not the craptastic slap in the face that all us TOS die hards got.

I still cannot watch that movie because it make me sooooo mad the way that Kirk went out…and he went without Spock and McCoy by his side (or saving them)….so sad!

18. Bill Binder - June 3, 2011

How does Generations begin?

With Kirk going into the bowels of the Enterprise-B because the captain belongs on the bridge, and this was Harriman’s Enterprise.

How should Generations have ended?

Defeat Soran, beam up together before the destruction of the D. When the inevitable peril comes, and the damage is so severe that they can’t separate from the bridge Picard starts to Dash to the Battle Bridge to separate from there.

Kirk stops him. This is your ship…. (knowingly) I’ll go.

Kirk gets to the Battle Bridge, seperates the ship, saving the day. The saucer flies to safety as he watches pensively. He sits in the chair… alone… on the bridge of the Enterprise where he belongs. He knows he does not belong to this Century, but he belongs to this ship and the will end together.

He always knew… he’d die alone.

19. Martin Pollard - June 3, 2011

#8 – Sadly, I don’t agree with you about those novels. I only read the first one, but it felt like I was reading a lame Trek fanfic, filled with endless fan-wank and ego-stroking. It didn’t inspire me to do anything other than avoid the rest of the series. About the only good part of it, to me, was the explanation of the origin of V’Ger (i.e. the “machine planet” that rebuilt V’Ger being the Borg homeworld). Other than that, it was nothing but a massive monument to William Shatner’s ego.

20. OtterVomit - June 3, 2011

The ending had even more problems than what is being discussed. PIcard should have exited the Nexus before Soran even left the Enterprise and stopped him then. Kirk did not even need to be involved! But anyway…

I am still of the opinion that the ending to Generations and all the subsequent TNG movies were all just Picard Nexus fantasies where he plays action hero. Whatever that was Picard encountered in the Nexus, it wasn’t James T. Kirk. Really, as if Kirk’s ultimate fantasy would be to sit in a cabin while being bitter about his Starfleet career? The man absolutely could not stay off the bridge of the Enterprise, and he was even hearing the call of the Captain’s chair on the Enterprise B! If you have to kill Kirk (which by the way, YOU DON’T), then kill him where he really lived – on the bridge of the Enterprise.

21. trekker 5 - June 3, 2011

#2,Jim,we can only hope!! I agree,it was REALLY,REALLY BAD!!!! I mean,I have the DVD,and have had it for a while now,and have only watched it twice.

22. Matt - June 3, 2011

He should have died in his sleep.

23. Bill Binder - June 3, 2011

#19 I 90% agree with you.

The post Generation novels were super hard-core nerd wank. But the very first book in the series “Ashes of Eden” took place before Generations.

It wasn’t about space ships or V’Ger or The Borg. It was just about a man facing his own obsolescence. It was only a sci-fi story in that they occasionally mentioned being in space. The parallels between the author and the character as evident and heartbreaking. It’s really a wonderful book (that was sadly followed by hyper nerd-out fanfic)

24. James T. West - June 3, 2011

I was sad to see James T. Kirk die, BUT…

1) It was a heroic death. He sacrificed his life to save Veridian III (4 billion people??)

2) He isn’t really dead, because like Guinan, his “shadow” is still alive in the NEXUS…

3) He didn’t die alone, as Picard was right next to him just before he slipped away.

4) What opportunities were available in the current Trek universe at that time anyway??? How would his character best be used…I mean look what they did with Scotty after “Relics”…?

25. Chris - June 3, 2011

Killing James T. Kirk is like killing James Bond. It should never happen.

The only reason it did was because Ron Moore (someone new to the francise) arrogantly decided to go this route, to “put his mark” on ST history.

As we all know it was a mistake, because Old Kirk would have been in ST 2009 along with spock (JJ Abrams said he tried to work Kirk into the story but couldn’t find a good way out of Kirk’s death).

Ron Moore also killed his own franchise; Galactica started out great but then turned into a bad soap opera (Apollo turns in his wings and becomes a Lawyer !?!) and a rip-off of prior films (the “hybrid” cylon was a direct steal from Minority Report).

Caprica was a good concept but ened up being a shallow Soprano’s with minimal SF.

What a hack.

26. Simon - June 3, 2011

#8 – “Written by Shatner”….GOOD ONE!

Anybody who seriously thinks he wrote any of those and not 100% the Reeves-Stevens needs a Vulcan nerve pinch. The man says he never watched TNG yet we’re supposed to believe he knew what a Borg was?

27. Shatner_Fan_Prime - June 3, 2011

I’ve said it 100 times… if the film had ended with Picard and Kirk (rather than Riker) beaming up together, this would be a more well regarded film today. People simply hated the depressing ending, and with good reason. Leonard always says the death of Kirk was “gratuitous”, and he’s right. That was the worst decision ever in Star Trek!

28. THX-1138 - June 3, 2011

To sum up:

Killing Kirk off was stupid.

29. Admiral Smith - June 3, 2011

I used to say, “You can tell when they run out of ideas. They destroy the Enterprise.” Clearly the same this with Kirk. They should have left it open and not close a door by killing him.

30. Captain Hackett - June 3, 2011

No. 25 –

I wish that this site have a Facebook button LIKE so I can press it on your post!

;)

31. Christopher Roberts - June 3, 2011

29. “You can tell when they run out of ideas. They destroy the Enterprise.”

Can you hear that? Sounds like the script for ST12 hastily being rewritten! :p

Go for it, Bob. Blow that ugly ship to pieces…

32. Diacanu - June 3, 2011

Actually, since Kirk saved the TNG crew aboard the crashed Ent-D saucer, and then they went on to save the existence of the Federation on the Ent-E in FC, then, Kirk saved the existence of the Federation.

Glamorous enough for me.

33. Greg2600 - June 3, 2011

They should have had Kirk help Picard save the day, then disappear into the Nexus. Whether he is shown reappeared on the Enterprise-B or not, I wouldn’t have cared. I would have liked it to end open-ended. Killing Kirk, and it wasn’t even his period of time, with his friends. No, he was a stranger. It was wrong in every way. I just remember begrudgingly going to the theater and sitting through the movie as a pissed off 15 year old.

I have found no reason other than this was a personal choice spearheaded by Rick Berman, to both break away from Gene’s Trek, and to put the Original Series to bed so it wouldn’t hang over his head.

34. Christopher Roberts - June 3, 2011

Actually wasn’t it Gene Roddenberry’s idea, that James T. Kirk would be dead by the 24th Century. All that no peace with the Klingons while Kirk lives stuff?

35. Greg2600 - June 3, 2011

24 – I have read/heard this claim for a long time. It may have been a heroic death for the character, but it was executed horrendously on screen. That’s ALL that matters, this is a visual medium after all. The movie was terrible, and Kirk’s death was also terrible. That NEXUS shadow nonsense is just that. It was a foolish concept, and one Gene Roddenberry would have laughed at. Where’s the scientific basis?

19 – The first Shatner/Reeves-Stevens novel Ashes of Eden was pretty good. The Return was interesting in the sense of how Kirk was brought back to life, but yeah the ones subsequent got more and more bizarre and ridiculous.

36. BringBackKirkPrime - June 3, 2011

20- You are right, Kirk wouldn’t be whining about poor choices in his life while cooking breakfast. He lived to be on the bridge of the Enterprise. He didn’t have to be killed off, but if he did, then it should have been while he was commanding the Enterprise.

37. D D - June 3, 2011

Well said.

38. Starbase Britain - June 3, 2011

well done malcolm. At last, someone has formally gone on record saying this stuff. I commend you sir.

My view is that kirks death was totally unecesssary. He didnt have ti die at all. To me it was a cynical way to get fans of TOS into cinemas (knowing that they wouldnt want to miss their heroes death) and hoped they would buy into the new crew.

It was a dismal way to ‘hand the baton over’ to TNG. Ive never recognised this movie because of this death scene. Very poorly done.

i think shatner couldnt resist one more time on the red carpet and i think that clouded his judgement on this.

Greg
UK

39. Dom - June 3, 2011

24. James T. West said:

‘I was sad to see James T. Kirk die, BUT…

’1) It was a heroic death. He sacrificed his life to save Veridian III (4 billion people??)’

What four billion people? Did we ever see them? Did we ever see their world, what they looked like? Did we get to know characters living there that we cared about, who screamed as the Nexus destroyed their world? Nope! We got a crass bit of throwaway dialogue. Movies are about ‘show, don’t tell!’ Amateurish writing!

’2) He isn’t really dead, because like Guinan, his “shadow” is still alive in the NEXUS…’

That’s the explanation I choose to go with, although the dialogue in the film indicates that Guinan partly remains there because the Enterprise-B’s transporter ripped her from the Nexus, while Jim chose to leave!

’3) He didn’t die alone, as Picard was right next to him just before he slipped away.’

It was always clear that Kirk was meant to die away from Spock and McCoy. He should have gone down with his ship and, by that I mean the -A or -B.

’4) What opportunities were available in the current Trek universe at that time anyway??? How would his character best be used…I mean look what they did with Scotty after “Relics”…?’

It was typical of the lack of respect shown to most franchises in the 1990s. It was the era of evil Jim Phelps, killing Kirk, Batman & Robin, Alien: Resurrection . . . the list goes on.

The best thing we can hope for is that we get a Star Trek cartoon series set in the new universe and Shatner and Nimoy can return to voice their characters for an episode that resolves the stupidity of Generations.

40. Daoud - June 3, 2011

It would have been better if Kirk when he died… that his body “phased” out with Nexus-looking effects. Then we can conclude in a way, he never left, and that he’s still in the Nexus, and thus he still is thought to have died saving the Enterprise B and the El-Aurian survivors.
.
But Bender, I do like your Battle Bridge idea, save for… wouldn’t you engage warp drive on the lower hull and send it off into subspace? Of course, then Deanna couldn’t crash the ship, and Data couldn’t say “Oh S

41. SoonerDave - June 3, 2011

This was just Berman’s “I can do Trek better than anyone” imprimatur that now rightly rings out as one of the dumbest, most poorly executed decisions in the broader context of pop culture icons. It’s a shame what ego can do.

The only thing sadder is that Shatner agreed to it.

42. Thomas - June 3, 2011

I don’t believe Kirk is immune from being killed. Unless it were suddenly (and cloyingly) revealed that he was secretly superhuman, he’s as mortal as any well-drawn human character. The ending is not great, but I think a great Kirk death scene could’ve been amazing. It could’ve been an amazing opportunity for Shatner to go out with some dignity, knowing he had done right by the Kirk character and that Kirk would remain immortal, so to speak, in the hearts of the fans.

43. DS9 IN PRIME TIME - June 3, 2011

Malcolm your objection is SUSTANED!

44. Greystoke - June 3, 2011

Generations was simply awful all the way through. The cheesy journalists, a completely incompetent Captain of the Enterprise, the senseless deaths (from a story standpoint) of Picard’s brother and nephew. That horrible Dickensian Christmas scene. Whiney Nexus-Kirk. Kirk’s dumbass death.

There was no real narrative, simply scenes strung together and emotions shoe-horned onto the characters. The only decent thing in the movie was Data saying,”Shit!”

45. Gren - June 3, 2011

Simple.
The Stardrive section doesn’t explode. Picard intends on taking it and ramming it into Soran’s missile launcher, but at the last minute, Kirk takes his place. He has an awesome last line, and then the Stardrive section slams into the surface of Veridian III, destroy the Missile Launcher and killing Soran.

46. Shamelord - June 3, 2011

Yeah, to me, technical values aside, it was much worse than Star Trek V.

47. Dunsel Report - June 3, 2011

Bless you, #46.

Yes, Star Trek V was, at least on paper, a stronger story, and nothing in “Generations” can touch the power of the scene in V where McCoy faces his past and Kirk refuses to.

48. MJ - June 3, 2011

“………………………….”

That is the sound of silence from the folks who have usually defended the Kirk death scene on these boards.

:-)

49. Atomicbridie - June 3, 2011

My ending for generations would have been. After the klingons have been destroyed. The enterprise badly damaged, cant escape the gravational pull of the planet and is slowly falling into the atomsphere.
Just like in the film, Kirk acts as a distraction as Picard messes with the controls to the missle and just before it explodes both Kirk and Picard are beamed back up to the enterpirse D.

Once aboard the cripled enterpirse, Picard realises they cant stop the ship from falling into the planet so orders all hands to abandon ship. At some point the ship starts listing and becoming unstable so its decent into the atomsphere is speeding up. Picard orders the bridge to evacute as he takes the helm to buy the rest of the crew more time to escape. Kirk does some speech about it might be a differernt letter, but its still an enterprise. And that he will take the helm so Picard can escape.
Scene ends with picard in an escape pod with riker and data watching the enterprise D burn up as it enters the atompshere and the final shots being Kirk on the bridge smiling as the enterprise D disappears into the planet in a ball of flames.

Prob would have been cheaper to film as well rather than the dish crashing on the planet. I miss D :(

50. Dac - June 3, 2011

“He was one of those great figures that caused dissention and debate and arguments.”

To be fair, that death, put on film nearly 20 years ago as bad as it may have been IS still causing dissention and debate. Seems kind of fitting.

51. Chain of Command - June 3, 2011

Generations should have been either an episode, or a direct to VHS (We didn’t have DVD’s then) movie. It never should have been released into the theaters.

It also cemented into a lot of people’s minds the idea that the (then) producers of post TOS Trek knew nothing about the original characters, nor had any respect for it.

It’s just strange though that “both generations” had such ponderous starts to their respective movie franchises. However, I can forgive TMP for being dull and plodding because it at least felt like a movie. Sure, it was pretentious, but if I were stranded on an island and I had to select between the original crews first outing, and TNG’s…..Well, sorry, I’ll go with Jerry Goldsmith and the 5 minute flyby of the Enterprise over Data’s emotion chip and Picards crying any day of the week.

Generations if proof that certain types of story-telling, while good on television, don’t translate well to the big screen.

52. Vultan - June 3, 2011

The whole concept of the movie seemed pointless to me. I mean, the studio wanted to officially pass the torch from TOS to TNG (something that was done with subtle perfection in the closing lines of TUC)… okay… all right. But TNG had just finished a seven-season run on television and spawned a fairly successful spin-off series of its own.

So, passing the torch? Yeah, that sort of thing should be left to the Olympics.

;)

53. vantheman77 - June 3, 2011

It was clear that the regime that was in charge of Star Trek at the time, led by Rick Berman, were dead set on burying the original series. They’re not fans of the original series.

They didn’t think the stories through in that film and William Shatner felt that Kirk wasn’t integral to the film’s plot and he’s right – Picard could have used the Nexus Ribbon to stop Soran just before he launched the missile to divert the Nexus Ribbon to him. The way Kirk died in all versions of whatever they shot was not well executed.

It was also a missed opportunity to have the two Star Trek crews – Original Series and Next Generation – meet entirely.

54. Chain of Command - June 3, 2011

@53
Amen!

I don’t usually post multiple comments, but Generations just……ERRRR… It’s like a stalker.

55. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - June 3, 2011

I agree with Malcom. What Berman did was so screwed up. They missed so many opertunities with Kirk. Berman really did screw up Trek.

56. Amorican - June 3, 2011

I remember interviews from 1994 where Malcolm McDowell was BRAGGING that he gets to kill Kirk.

And what’s this business:

“. . .whether you like him or not. . .”
“. . .great, iconic figure that everybody loved or everybody loathed”

Who are these people that loathed Kirk?

57. Bucky - June 3, 2011

Lame death aside, I dig McDowell in the film a lot. That back and forth he has with Picard about time stalking him is really well done. Even the way he flips open his stopwatch casually looks neat, even if it is a glaring anachronism. (Braga and Moore point this out in the commentary track for the flick too, which is a really entertaining listen.)

58. OLLEY OLLEY OLLEY - June 3, 2011

WHO KILLED KIRK?

Ron Moore & Brannon Braga

59. Phil - June 3, 2011

I doubt you will find too many people pleased with how it was handled, but for everyone who is monday morning quarterbacking it now, you need to remind yourself, Shatner cashed his paycheck. For a guy who was very vocal about his character prior to Generations, he is strangly quiet now.

60. James - June 3, 2011

Kirk stated he knew he would always die alone – perhaps it should have been ramming a starship into the Duras’ bird of prey (ultimately i feel there were far better ways for him to die than the one that was settled on)

61. Chris Dawson - June 3, 2011

There’s always the Shatner/ Reeves-Stevens’ Trek novels – Kirk LIVES!

62. Ivory - June 3, 2011

Pardon the French, but Kirk’s death sucked on every conceivable level. If I were a writer for the ST universe I would find a way to fix it while Mr. Shatner is still with us.

63. Let Them Eat Plomeek Soup - June 3, 2011

As corny as it may sound to some, James T. Kirk should have died on the bridge–OF THE ENTERPRISE. That was where he belonged. That was where his life should have ended.

“Generations” honestly had one of the lamest death scenes I’ve ever seen. Yes–James Kirk should have had a huge, mighty death scene!!! Let him go in a huge, spectacular ball of flame in space! (wait, space has no oxygen to burn…sorry.) But you know what I mean.

Mr. Orci: could you please bring Kirk (Prime) back in ST12? Then you can have him die a second time, and let him have a death scene that will make up for the one in “Generations”.

64. sean - June 3, 2011

The Shatner/Reeves-Stevens novels are dreadful. Suddenly, Kirk is the center of the entire flippin’ universe, and every single event, no matter how insignificant, is somehow tied to him. No thanks.

65. Ron Tracey - June 3, 2011

Malcolm McDowell certainly hit the nail on the head.

I’ll say this much for Ron Moore. He certainly comes from the Fred Freiberger school of writing(i.e. not thinking things through before typing them out).

First this huge misfire, then that worthless Battlestar Galactica remake. I’d hate to think what is next.

The only good things about Generations are the following:

1. The first half involving Kirk, Scott, Chekov, Guinan, and the Enterprise-B.

2. Malcolm McDowell(an actor I never would have imagined to be in a Star Trek film).

3. The killing of Lursa and B’Tor

4. Watching Geordi suffer at the hands of Soran. Too bad Soran didn’t kill him off. The Enterprise-D would have survived.

66. Magic_Al - June 3, 2011

Ronald D. Moore & Brannon Braga also wrote the TNG finale “All Good Things” and Star Trek: First Contact. The problem with Generations’ script is the story is inorganic. It’s a checklist of events that were decreed to happen. The writers weren’t assigned to tell a story as much as to rationalize how one preordained event would lead to another.

The film starts with some false notes because Scotty and Chekov are obviously saying lines written for Spock and McCoy. It would have been better to rewrite it as Kirk alone with the Enterprise-B crew than do that.

67. kc - June 3, 2011

@18…. that would have been a perfect ending to a not so great movie.

Generations would have been an OK TNG episode… but movie? No way.

68. Thomas Jensen - June 3, 2011

I agree completely with Mr. McDowell. Completely.

Now, can somebody please fix?

69. Captain Karl - June 3, 2011

Tell ya’ what….give it to George Lucas, he fixes the ending and rewrites canon…Kirk isn’t killed by Soran, he actually survives because of um…bacteria in his blood…that um…gives him, err…special super powers, which he then uses to uh, ride the rocket trying to disarm it but it flies into the sun to cause it to supernova and move the nexus ribbon, giving him a fitting death in a blaze of glory…cut, finish, print it! BRILLIANT!

70. Captain Karl - June 3, 2011

@18 that is a great ending! That….THAT would have been a kicking way to send off Kirk!

71. NX-17000 - June 3, 2011

@18- Perfect. That would have been 100% better than the one they gave us. It would have fit with other movies, with that movie, and wouldnt have involved a complete “Red Shirt” Death.

72. Damian - June 3, 2011

I did not have a problem with Kirk’s death. I generally assumed he was dead by then anyway. I can even get with the fact that he died saving a planet he likely never heard of. Captain Kirk wouldn’t think twice about giving his life to save innocents.

However, I will agree the death itself could have been better. Also, by the end of the film, I all but forgot about the millions saved on Veridian IV (not to mention the Enterprise crew).

By and large, I enjoyed Generations. It was a decent Trek film, though it felt surreal at times seeing it in the theaters. With the sets and ship from the TV series, it felt like watching an episode on the big screen. But for many, Kirk’s death was the make or break scene. His “initial” death on the Enterprise-B, I felt, went across very well. He died saving the Enterprise, what I would have expected. The “final” death was a missed opportunity. Handled differently, this film could have been remembered along with Star Trek II, IV of First Contact. But it is what it is. I have the special edition DVD and watch it when the mood suits me. I’m not going to lose sleep over it.

73. Red Dead Ryan - June 3, 2011

48.
…..

“……………………..”

“That is the sound of silence from the folks who have usually defended the Kirk death scene on these boards.”

Yeah, I’m (pleasantly) surprised that Captain_Neill isn’t here getting his knickers in a twist over everybody’s opposition to Kirk’s death!

69.
….

Problem is, George Lucas would have made Kirk team up with Jar Jar Binks, who bumbles his way around and who sets in motion a chain of events resulting in–you guessed it!–Kirk’s death!

“Encounter At Farpoint”, “Unification”, and “Relics” all featured great “passing the torch” moments featuring McCoy, Spock and Scotty. I don’t know how the ball got dropped with the Kirk death scene. And it’s obviously clear as well that William Shatner NEEDS to accept his share of the blame and responsibility instead of just demanding that J.J Abrams include him in the sequel.

74. John from Cincinnati - June 3, 2011

an echo of Kirk will always exist in the nexus….

…and who is to say the nexus can not traverse other dimensions (such as parallel universes)?

75. DC - June 3, 2011

I really like that battle bridge idea. Especially since the battle bridge set was originally the bridge of the original Enterprise (refit). Kirk would not only have died on the bridge of the Enterprise, but in a way, would have died on the bridge of HIS Enterprise.

76. Iowagirl - June 3, 2011

If something that sucks can be fixed, fix it! That’s why we were given two thumbs and a creative mind.

77. Bobby - June 3, 2011

Did you know McDowell received death threats after the movie for quite some time?

I hated the way Kirk died, but death threats? Pretty sad.

Met McDowell once, super nice guy, and talented actor.

78. Keachick (rose pinenut) - June 3, 2011

“There is no good way to die”, – Captain James T Kirk (Episode – That Which Survives)

I would have preferred that they left it open as to whether James Kirk survives his injuries. Picard should have taken Kirk with him. That Picard buried and left him there on Veridian III was actually the lamest part of the whole movie. Who leaves their dead and/or wounded on foreign soil (let alone planet) now even, if they can possibly help it (which Picard could)?

Malcolm McDowell is right with his assessment!

79. Keachick (rose pinenut) - June 3, 2011

Perhaps what really bugs people about the whole Generations scene showing Kirk dying and right afterwards is not how he died, but rather that he did not receive a proper formal burial with all the bells and whistles (as they say). It is probable that a memorial service was held just after he disappeared at the beginning of the movie, but now that the same James Kirk turns up (miraculously) 78 years later and actually dies saving Picard’s Enterprise and an entire planet of strangers from destruction, then a proper burial is the very least they could have given him.

I wonder if that is part of what angers a lot of people. It angers me.

Such disrespect on the part of the writers and producers. Bill – what were you thinking? Honestly?

80. Jerry Modene - June 4, 2011

IIRC, Roddenberry himself had stated, back in the late 80′s, that Kirk was “probably dead” by the time of TNG.

81. Anthony Thompson - June 4, 2011

C’mon gang, let’s all grab our torches and find Rick Berman! : )

82. MJ - June 4, 2011

@81. I really hate to say it, but I agree with Anthony Thompson on this. :-) Fire up the pitchforks, and load the tar and feathers into the wagon. LOL

83. Matthias - June 4, 2011

i do agree, too. kirk is a heroe and his death was so poor. “Bridge on the Captain”… oh my….

84. OLLEY OLLEY OLLEY - June 4, 2011

Kirks Death was bad, but Shatner signed the contract and agreed to play the death scene.

Now, nearly 20 years later, there some fans that want to bring a 80 year old Kirk back from the grave, stick him in an alternate universe and do WHAT exactly?

Please Bob Ocri, don’t listen to these idiots.

85. Holger - June 4, 2011

I can only say that I totally agree with McDowell.

86. Lazarus Nine - June 4, 2011

Why not bring the mirror universe Kirk back into the new ST timeline? Somehow break him of his bad habits, make us like him and then give Shatner’s Kirk the ending he deserves (death or otherwise)

87. Lazarus Nine - June 4, 2011

@ 86 (myself) Dumb idea. I think we all want to see Shatner as Kirk, because he’s just so damn cool. But, in some ways, what does it matter? What will one more film with Shatner do for us? And I am not the biggest fan of Kirk’s death in Generations, but sometimes an ignoble death is more realistic for a human being. It was at least better than shooting him in the back, like they did in the original cut. I just like how they passed the torch to a film franchise that ended up sinking Star Trek into oblivion until it was rehashed in 2009. I’m still fond of the TNG films (except the pile of **** that was Nemesis), but they could have been so much more.

88. Phil - June 4, 2011

@ 79. Shatner was mailing it in. The check didn’t bounce, he was good. Given his boorish behaviour toward the franchise in recent years his new found love of Abrams version probably stems more from a realization he needs to cash in then anything else.

89. Phil - June 4, 2011

@82. No. It dosen’t matter if Berman, and every suit at Paramount thought it was a grand idea to kill Kirk, the last line in the sand was Shatner. No one forced him to sign the contract. If Shatner said no, what were they going to do?

90. Buzz Cagney - June 4, 2011

#89 they were going to kill him off anyway. Berman said as much.

91. Buzz Cagney - June 4, 2011

sorry, as an addition to above……. every actor dreams of a great death scene. Bill probably thought he could do something with it along the lines of Spock in Wrath.
Sadly Generations wasn’t written by Nick Meyer.

92. Buzz Cagney - June 4, 2011

#88 Phil, sorry but what a crock of shite. Bill doesn’t need Trek these days! pmsl I duno if you’ve noticed but he’s bloody minted my friend!
He gave Trek ’09 more free publicity than it could have bought- and he wasn’t even in it!
(not that i’m calling for him to return. Not today anyway. I may feel differently tomorrow though)

93. Buzz Cagney - June 4, 2011

#81 I have him safe and sound in my basement. I’m open to offers for him. ;-)

94. Petitspock - June 4, 2011

The death didn’t bother me as much as the fact that they left Kirk’s body on that planet. A historic figure like Kirk deserves a state funeral in the heart of the Federation.

95. Jeyl - June 4, 2011

Hey McDowell, you still got a chance to kill Kirk the right way with this new incarnation. :)

96. Phil - June 4, 2011

@ Buzz…
It dosen’t matter what Bermans comments were. If Shatner says no, Generations dosen’t get made.

The extent of Shatners free publicity for Trek 09 was to declare that because he was not in it, Paramount made a major mistake and the movie would bomb. Wrong on all accounts. I don’t doubt that Shatner is comfortable these days, but his current career track pretty much forces him to be in front of a camera, somewhere, and all the time. His current TV show was canceled after one season, and just about everything else he is doing (commericals, voiceover, speaking engagements, hosting) really requires him to be constanting selling himself or his projects. It’s good work, but it’s not the same as having people come to you. Trek 12 is tantilizing to him because it offers a chance for him to return to the center of the Trek universe, and the payday that comes with it, but because of his decision to participate in Generations and his boorish behaviour toward the last movie, it’s just a bit out of his reach. So now we are treated to him begging for a role in the next movie, and it comes across as nothing more the self serving.

97. Hugh Hoyland - June 4, 2011

Good on McDowell for calling it as he sees it! Its a very poor ending, either version.

If Kirk really had to die (and I dont see any reason why he had to in the first place, except maybe that the producers thought it might sell more tickets) it should have been done in a much more fitting way…like say in action on the bridge, alone and saving lives.

And dont be to harsh on Ron Moore, he openly admited he thinks he didnt do a very good job on that script.

Also keep in mind as much as I love the Shat, he went right along with this with the greatest of ease. He could have shot it down as fast as lightning if he had wanted to.

IMO That poor choice has come back to bite him.

98. William Kirk - June 4, 2011

I completely agree with Mr. McDowell: very poor ending. If he does have to die, it should have been much better. This was not a death for a hero.

99. Mattyb - June 4, 2011

Kirk should of never died in my opinion. He got a beautifull send off in TUC. If the Paramount wanted him dead then they should of gave more money and give a good send off on the bridge of his starship alone, just like his alt dad

100. Chain of Command - June 4, 2011

Today is National “Wrath of Khan” day

101. chrisfawkes.com - June 4, 2011

“Yeah, they re-shot. What did they reshoot? It was just as bad as the first one. ”
So spot on. People can forgive when their is repentance Berman never seemed to appreciate the magnitude of his error.

Generations should have included a story with both crews saving the universe. Done right that could have been the all time favorite.

102. djeewhy - June 4, 2011

I always agreed with the death of Kirk in the way it was showed in Generations because it’s a great death! In Star Trek 5 Kirk says he always knew he would die alone…And it would be a mistake not to offer this to the character . What would bring him a great brightly death? Nothing! It would be a consolation for some fans ….that’s all. The strengh of those characters is to be normal people in extraordinary events. Kirk always played with death and that his end could be the complete contrary of what he made of his life is for me the best thing that Generations could offer Kirk’s character. Generations is plenty of contradictions and that’s not the death of Kirk witch is the first one in my opinion. It is one of the more Trek movies of the saga, by its approach of time, life, death, friendship, duty and changing ” a chance of death in a chance of life”.

103. Odkin - June 4, 2011

Attention….
Bridge on the Captain!

104. Reign1701A - June 4, 2011

Doesn’t anyone else think that Kirk’s first “death” on the Enterprise-B was way more appropriate of the character? That sort of death was always how I’d imagine Kirk going out. That said, like others, I was perfectly happy with the Enterprise literally riding out into the sunset at the end of ST VI…

105. SoonerDave - June 4, 2011

LOL @ 103 – Awesome joke, Odkin :)

106. MJ - June 4, 2011

@88 / Phil: “Shatner was mailing it in. The check didn’t bounce, he was good. Given his boorish behavior toward the franchise in recent years his new found love of Abrams version probably stems more from a realization he needs to cash in then anything else.”

E X A C T L Y ! ! !

The Shat is out for #1 — “show me the money”. And well meaning Trek fans like Buzz are so full of Shat that they actually buy into the facade, hook, line and sinker.

107. Starbase Britain - June 4, 2011

I always felt the scene in Trek 5 was odd where by kirk declares ‘he will die alone’. i still to this day dont know why that was included. Did they know then that he was going to be killed i wondered?

Greg
United Kingdom

108. MJ - June 4, 2011

@102 “Generations is plenty of contradictions and that’s not the death of Kirk witch is the first one in my opinion. It is one of the more Trek movies of the saga, by its approach of time, life, death, friendship, duty and changing ” a chance of death in a chance of life”

This is a joke, right???

109. Mike Thompson - June 4, 2011

#18 I like that ending…

110. Mike Thompson - June 4, 2011

However a missed opportunity not to have the whole original cast in it.

Such a shame.

111. Mike Thompson - June 4, 2011

Having said that, I’m grateful that it did give us us another look at Scotty and Checkov.

112. Mike Thompson - June 4, 2011

Having said that, I’m grateful that it did give us us another look at Scotty and Checkov.

But still a missed opportunity.

113. MJ - June 4, 2011

Mike, you have mouse problems with your computer or something? :-)

114. Andy Matner - June 4, 2011

Like any legend their fate should be left to the mists of time. Indy, James Bond, Kirk….no matter their death scene it will never be good enough!

115. Travis - June 4, 2011

Really????…. Rick Berman probably forgot who ” Captain James T. Kirk ” was and made Picard go over him, which really made me mad when i first saw Generations. Your always going to have your ” Original Series ” fans and always going to have your ” Next Generation ” fans. When Roddenberry died, Berman took over The Next Generation and wasted no time to dis-respect The Original Series. Im sorry but Picard isnt better than Kirk and cant fill his shoes as Captain of the Enterprise. Rick Berman took it upon himself to shove it to the Kirk fans ( like me ), to kill him off the easiest way. It really is a shame :-/. Now to the new Kirk…. I hope he lives forever and for god sakes… Do NOT let Rick Berman near future Star Trek activites… Thank you very much :)

116. frederick - June 4, 2011

Kirk’s death should never have been left to happen among anyone else but a movie of his own filled with his crew and friends.

117. dmduncan - June 4, 2011

103. Odkin – June 4, 2011

LOL.

118. dmduncan - June 4, 2011

97. Hugh Hoyland – June 4, 2011

Moore saved himself with BSG, which was brilliant, and I don’t often give high praise to anything on the stupid box.

And you know, it was the 90′s…the Berlin wall had fallen, the USSR had crumbled, and President George HW Bush couldn’t say “hello” without squeezing “New World Order” somewhere between the letters. People really were in a mindset that the world was unifying and that’s the world that TNG reflected. And in that world TOS and that old cowboy Captain James T. Kirk who was always breaking the rules was the way of the past, the way of doing things that people seemed to think we had to get away from to make this new world (represented by a new type of captain who needed 2 other people to help him make up his mind about things) possible.

Looking back on it from where we are now, it was all so naively euphoric.

But I think that’s what drove the disrespect to the character of James Kirk, and why they simply just didn’t seem to care enough to draft a fitting demise for him. The guy was the quintessential starman, a cosmic Odysseus…he should at least had an ending like Dave Bowman in 2001, where perhaps he reaches another level of being or something…an ending that really isn’t an ending so much as the beginning of a new story we shall never know.

Instead of “oh my” his last words should have been “Are you f**king kidding me???”

119. dmduncan - June 4, 2011

And look at the stupid photo for this post, with them squatting face to face.

They look like they’re in a shit-off.

120. D-Rock - June 4, 2011

Don’t really know what McDowell’s opinion adds to the conversation. The role was a paycheck for him too, and not one he holds in the greatest esteem. I saw him at a screening of A Clockwork Orange last year. During the Q & A, he was asked about Kirk’s death and his role in Generations. The question had been barely asked when he said, “Oh, come on, let’s move on to greater things.”

121. MJ - June 4, 2011

@119. “And look at the stupid photo for this post, with them squatting face to face. They look like they’re in a shit-off.”

Yea, like they are both took too many ex lax.

122. MJ - June 4, 2011

@120. “Don’t really know what McDowell’s opinion adds to the conversation.”

It adds a lot for me — finally, someone of stature who was officially involved in the movie admits that is was damn wrong. This is face the face of all the meaningless platitudes and excuses we have heard from Berman and others on Kirk’s death.

123. Jonboc - June 4, 2011

Pointless death from a pointless movie. Good thing, in my own personal Trek universe, those events in Generations never happened!

124. D-Rock - June 4, 2011

122

I think Moore and Braga have already said this, among others.

he’s not blowing the lid off it and probably hasn’t given Star Trek too much thought since he wrapped shooting other than it making money for him at the odd convention.

I mean, it’s only been about sixteen or so years now.

125. Anti-Matter - June 4, 2011

“Bridge on the captain” is Shatner’s own joke in ‘The Captain’s Summit’, hosted by Whoopi Goldberg in 2009.

If Generations is making you so grumpy and irritable, watch that instead. It’s a riot.

126. Buzz Cagney - June 4, 2011

MJ trust me i am not full of Shatner. Its staggers me that you can post such garbage without even knowing me.
I prefer to see myself as the conterbalance offsetting the limitless bilge that people like you spout about him.

127. Buzz Cagney - June 4, 2011

and Phil, get your head out of the sand. Bill bought SO much publicity for ’09 he should have been on the pay-roll. Hell, he did such a good job he probably was!
There must have been more column inches typed out about whether he was in or not than about any other single thing.
And as to him saying it would bomb without him- again, it makes for great headlines don’t it. He’s a master at it.
JJ must have been so grateful!

128. chrisfawkes.com - June 4, 2011

@122, well said. Berman has just blown it off adding insult to the injury.

It is nice to hear someone actually admit it was a crap way to kill Kirk.

To those who think no death would have been good enough that is no excuse whatsoever for the pathetically weak way they did it.

Personally i think anyone not offended by Kirks death in Generations should forthwith be stripped of the title of trekkie until due repentance has been offered and accepted by no less than three or more real fans.

129. MJ - June 4, 2011

@126/ Buzz: “MJ trust me i am not full of Shatner. Its staggers me that you can post such garbage without even knowing me.”

All I said was: “The Shat is out for #1 — ‘show me the money.’ And well meaning Trek fans like Buzz are so full of Shat that they actually buy into the facade, hook, line and sinker.”

Dude, I said you we well meaning. It is really not your fault — I blame Shat for the facade, not you. You are one of the good guys who take Shat at face value, and I commend you for that. Really!!!

130. Jack - June 5, 2011

119. lol. Darned true.

131. hawaiiowa - June 5, 2011

I would have enjoyed it if Kirk had vanished into the Nexus and then reappeared under a bridge in Socialist London in the 2020s next to a drunkie. As they’re sharing a bottle of port, Malcolm and his droogs come along and “do ‘im in” with their billies. Actually, I’m being facetious…

But right up there with the inanity and vapidity of Kirk’s death scene was the fact that Malcolm was totally snubbed by the Oscars for his work on Clockwork…perhaps the greatest example of “stupid is as stupid does” in the history of the Academy. 40 years later, his performance is hands down brilliant compared to almost all of the more recent Oscar winners. As an actor, he’s a star among dullards.

132. Matthias - June 5, 2011

the movie was full of inconsistance, full of disrespect about Kirk and Roddenberrys TNG. Many remarked this, but noone could listen to it, because of the exultation over a TNG movie. It was the beginning of TNG´s end.

133. P Technobabble - June 5, 2011

I recall being somewhat excited about TNG’s first movie. I had already come to terms with TUC being the last film to feature the original cast, and I liked TNG. The film sounded promising: Malcolm McDowell, a great actor, as the villain; Shatner, Doohan and Koenig returning to pass the torch; Patrick Stewart on the big screen, where he belongs…
What a mediocre film it turned out to be.
I know we’ve all crucified Moore/Braga/Berman for this dreadful movie, but the sour taste it left me with tastes just as sour today. Truly, a missed opportunity.
The best part was the opening, up to Kirk saving the Enterprise. The movie should have ended there.

134. Hugh Hoyland - June 5, 2011

118 dmduncan

Yeah he Moore did a great job on BSG. The guys got talent for sure. I even like the failed series he did “Virtuality”.

Oh no, The Bush NWO. Boy does that bring back memories. I really think the guy thought he was the one to usher it in.

There are few Presidents that I ever took an instant dislike to in my gut when I first observed them (almost always my gut instinct turned out to be justified), one is FDR, another is LBJ, Bush and his son are another two.
But I wont go into that. lol

The model male roll being foisted off as being standard in todays stories are really what would have been called the “Anti Hero” at one time. And they were usually a secondary characters at best. TOS Captain Kirk was far from being an anti-hero IMO.

135. chrisfawkes.com - June 5, 2011

To all the small men hating on William Shatner because they read something negative somewhere and just happened to be dumb enough to believe it i’d like to point out.

If it were not for William Shatner you would not even be here.

If you consider yourself a trekkie then the answer is more than implied in the question, who’s your daddy?

136. Len Krieger - June 5, 2011

My question is this, “Why in the world did Shatner agree to do a movie where they kill off Kirk?”

And by so agreeing he trusted Kirks death to “the powers that be.”. We can complain all we want about his death, but didn’t Shatner have some say?

Someone (from Paramount Pictures) had to have send the Generations script to him and he signed off on it. What was he thinking? “Oh they will bring be back like they did for Nimoy?”. Or, “Kirk, so long (FOREVER) and thanks for all the fish!”

Let’s no complain about the death, but to the man who signed off on and delivered the scene.

137. MJ - June 5, 2011

@135. “To all the small men hating on William Shatner because…”

I don’t hate the Shat, I just don’t trust him. And I do give him full props for his great Trek legacy.

That being said, beginning with Trek 7 when he did not have the balls to say “No, Kirk cannot go out this way,” and continuing with his antics through TakeiGate, and his recent behavior towards the franchise, combined with his buffoon-like promotion of himself these days, I just don’t really look up to him anymore, and certainly don’t want him to reappear in an new Trek productions.

If others have a problem with this, so be it. It is what it is.

138. Phil - June 5, 2011

@127. Well, you really are a “glass half full” kinda guy. It’s a wonderful trait to be able to see something positive in Shatners words when most everyone else takes them at face value.. Look, I’ve never said I didn’t like Shatners Kirk, it’s just that between what he has said and done, the franchise has moved past him. The way he behaves now just tends to remind me of Ali at the end of his career, Ali thinking he still had a little something in the tank when it was obvious to most (not all) observers that he didn’t. It was sad to watch, but watch we did.

139. MJ - June 5, 2011

@138. “The way he behaves now just tends to remind me of Ali at the end of his career, Ali thinking he still had a little something in the tank when it was obvious to most (not all) observers that he didn’t. It was sad to watch, but watch we did.”

Well put, Phil!

140. Michael - June 5, 2011

Kirk was an embarrassment of a Starfleet officer. He was just a white male cipher who always ended up doing what Spock told him to do anyways, because he wasn’t intelligent enough to come up with solutions for himself (most of the time).

Picard was the model of thinking man in a complex universe. Kirk was a male power fantasy. It was a bad ending and a bad movie sure, but this was a character that the franchise could have lost a long time ago and been better for it.

The show was really about Spock anyways, I wish they had just made him the Captain.

141. MJ - June 5, 2011

@140. I assume you are joking? Spock and Kirk complement each other, and the sum is much greater than the parts. That is whole purpose of the characters, dude. If you didn’t pick up on that, than I pity you.

142. Red Dead Ryan - June 5, 2011

140.
……

You’re obviously NOT a fan of “Star Trek”, or else you wouldn’t have come up with something as stupid as what you just wrote.

143. dmduncan - June 5, 2011

Kirk was a genius hero, and Picard was a wussy with a phony smile on his face who needed a castrated Kirk analog (Riker) and an interstellar Dr. Ruth (Troi) to hold his hands at the center of the bridge. They had to kill Kirk because they knew Picard couldn’t compete with him in the movies, so they used him to ensure Picard saved the day instead of getting Deliveranced in the space boonies by Caligula.

144. MJ - June 5, 2011

@143. Yea what DM says will be hurtful to some, but the truth hurts!

145. STTNG - June 5, 2011

Actually Kirk did die when he saved the enterprise, except he was “saved” by that ribbon in space, which in his time frame nobody knew existed. So as far as I’m concerned he died saving the Enterprise, the way it should have been. He just had a second chance to help save the Earth, which he did as well. Other than do like Captain Kirk’s dad did in the Star Trek Reboot and sacrifice himself, what else could they have done? Kirk kills Satan?

146. MJ - June 5, 2011

“Other than do like Captain Kirk’s dad did in the Star Trek Reboot and sacrifice himself”

Yes that would have much preferable to the “bridge on the Captain” debacle.

See, you answered your own question! :-)

147. Horatio - June 6, 2011

As much as I love The Shat, I have to place ultimate blame on him for this one. He had the power to do whatever he wanted in that film. If he didn’t like the way he was going to die he could have just said he wouldn’t sign on to do the movie. Nimoy saw the script for the stink bomb that it was.
Through the years i’ve gotten the impression that Shatner thought that TOS had run its course and he was ready to move on without it. EPIC FAIL.
McDowell is totally correct.

148. /K - June 6, 2011

See Shatners The Return novel.. absolutely BRILLIANT book about how the borg bring him to life and use him against the federation.

149. N - June 6, 2011

Does anyone like how they killed Captain James T. Kirk in Star Trek: Generations? Yes, I do.

150. Keachick (rose pinenut) - June 6, 2011

#140 Huh? What?

Kirk asked Spock to give him the necessary information in order to decide the next best course of action (even if Spock had nothing to provide – often the case). That was what being a responsible and receptive captain is meant to be – gathering information from all the relevant parties, assessing it and coming to a decision – Kirk’s own decision.

The fact that Spock may have agreed with many of his decisions wholeheartedly does not negate Kirk’s role and often ingenious solutions to problems. Spock was often surprised/perplexed as to how Kirk came out with certain answers. Watch the episode where Kirk and Spock play 3D chess and how Kirk beats Spock and Spock has no idea what lead Kirk to do what he did in the game in order to win. Kirk did not cheat either.
(Was the episode called “Where No Man Has Gone Before”? Not sure, just remember the scene).

151. ME!! - June 6, 2011

Everyone can send a nice big facetious thanks to Rick Berman and his tight knit group of “writers” who thought they could do no wrong and couldn’t care less about continuity or what the fans thought and who, to this day, thinks the bad box office returns for Nemesis were because “fans were tired of Star Trek.” No, RIck, we were tired of YOUR version of Star Trek.

On my list, ALL four TNG movies are apocryphal and/or take place in an alternate universe.

Yes, even First Contact which I do enjoy a lot, but which has WAY too many continuity problems to be considered in the Prime timeline.

152. Brain - June 6, 2011

Even though I didn’t much care for the way Kirk’s death was written, I did take from it something that made him even more human: that he happened to die a rather tragic death after such a full and woundrous life. Long live Jim Kirk!

153. Baroner - June 6, 2011

TOTAL BS. That it’s universally loathed says it all. Damn Rick Berman and all who had any part in this nonsense.

154. N - June 7, 2011

“universally loathed” – is ignorance bliss over there?

155. Diacanu - June 8, 2011

#32 best post in the thread, it nullifies everything else. You’re a hero, and you glow, and you can fly. All hail #32. Huzzah.

156. Randy Hall - June 8, 2011

Amen! I could almost accept Kirk dying while saving the Enterprise B, but killing Kirk twice in one movie is someone else’s guilty pleasure, not mine!

157. John - July 15, 2011

Generations was a fine film in basic idea, but sadly it was executed so poorly. In truth I think it would have been better to do a TOS film leading into TNG rather than a TNG film with TOS cameos. I liked so many little aspects of the film, but they don’t actually fit together. It’s like a waste basket of extra ideas. Final Frontier and Nemesis had the same feeling – plenty of things that would work well standing alone but combined just don’t work.

And personally, Kirk’s original death was better than the one they used. I’d much rather him be shot than fall on a freakin’ bridge. Neither one is that respectful to the character, but at least being shot he was killed by a villain, not by a bridge. He should’ve been killed on the bridge of a starship though, as said. But I actually think it’s a good thing he was killed off, because the truth is the character needed the closure.

I loved TNG as a series but none of the TNG films really interest me much, not even First Contact.

158. Mr m willis - January 26, 2012

Bring back captin kirk now only this will save star trek now

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