Exclusive Brent Spiner Interview (Pt. 2): Talks Bad TNG Eps, Why Nemesis bombed, JJ Trek & Trek Future | TrekMovie.com
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Exclusive Brent Spiner Interview (Pt. 2): Talks Bad TNG Eps, Why Nemesis bombed, JJ Trek & Trek Future March 23, 2012

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Celebrity,Feature Films (TMP-NEM),Interview,TNG , trackback

Today TrekMovie finishes up our exclusive interview with Star Trek: The Next Generation’s Brent Spiner, where we talk about his least favorite episode of TNG, why he thinks Nemesis bombed, what he thinks of JJ Abrams Star Trek, and where he would like to see Star Trek go next.

 

Spiner Interview (Part 2): Bad TNG Episodes, Why Nemesis bombed, JJ Trek & Franchise Future

In Part 1 of the TrekMovie interview with Brent Spiner, we talked about The Simpsons, his web series Fresh Hell and Star Trek: TNG turning 25. For part two we dive deeper into what worked and didn’t work with TNG, discuss why Star Trek: Nemesis failed and get Brent’s thoughts on the new Star Trek movies and where he would like to see the franchise go in the future.

TrekMovie: You mentioned how there are so many episodes of TNG, obviously some of those rise to the top and there are those that don’t. When you guys were in the middle of episodes like "Best of Both Worlds" or "Yesterday’s Enterprise" or others that people now look at as the best, did you realize "hey this is really good." And on the other hand, did you notice when you were in one of the less than good episodes? Or is it impossible to know when you are in the middle of it?

Brent Spiner: It really is impossible to know, at least I didn’t. We were working so many hours it was impossible to think about it. I didn’t even watch the show. I didn’t have time to watch it. I watched the first twenty or so and then thought "I have spent enough time. I am on the set 16 hours a day and go home and learn lines for another hour so enough is enough." Of course there were moments where we would go "we’re in trouble." There is that one episode that we all knew was bad very early on. The one where Denise [Crosby] was captured by the tribe of space Africans [laughs]. It ["Code of Honor"] was just a racist episode. Maybe not intentionally but it felt that way and looked that way. It was the third episode so it was fortuitous that we did our worst that early on and it never got quite that bad again.

But certainly there were episodes that were less good. There was one that we thought was terrible while we were doing. We were laughing at each other’s faces at the acting we were doing in "Masks," but that is a fan favorite. I am always hearing how fans love it and let me tell you, we could not look at each other. Colm Meaney was laughing at me, Marina [Sirits] was laughing at me. I was laughing at Patrick. He was laughing at me. We were thinking "this is preposterous," but you cut it together and add the music and it works.  


Spiner in Star Trek: TNG’s "Masks"

TrekMovie:  Speaking of the show living on, have you had a chance to see the Blu-ray Next Generation?

Brent Spiner: No…they sent it to me, but I haven’t watched it. It was like "what do I watch, old episodes of the show I did or Boardwalk Empire? I think I’ll watch Boardwalk Empire."

TrekMovie: I imagine there must be a shades of the film Sunset Boulevard with Gloria Swanson watching her old movies. Every actor must think about that.

Brent Spiner: Right. I just don’t do it, period. There are many things I have done in my career that I have never seen. The only times I have seen myself recently is because I had a contractual obligation, like for the Star Trek movies I had to go to the premiere as that was in the contract, so I saw them one time. But I’ve never seen them again.

TrekMovie: Looking back at the arc you were able to take with your character on Star Trek, do you feel satisfied or were there things you feel you left on the table?

Brent Spiner: I feel completely satisfied. If we had done another one I would have been satisfied with that too. We were just happy to be working. I thought the character had a very good arc. I was one of the defenders of the death of Data, because it made sense. We were told this was pretty much our last film. I have tried to tell fans were upset about it – but I don’t have much success – that as far as Paramount was concerned, all the other characters are dead too. You have never seen Riker again or Picard again or anyone again? So why not have that emotional finish to the journey as opposed to leaving it open and you never know.

TrekMovie: Personally, while I had some issues with Star Trek: Nemesis, that was not one of them. I thought it was his final stop on his journey to being human.

Brent Spiner: Exactly right! Exactly.

TrekMovie: But people and Paramount, look at film as a disappointment, especially financially. And if you hear Jonathan Frakes’ take on it, with him in the director’s chair things would have been different. Do you think it is that simple?

Brent Spiner: I think Jonathan would have done a great job as he is a wonderful director, but I think there is more to it. I honestly think that for that period of time, the fans had had enough of us. I say that because the movie didn’t "open" the way the other movies opened. It wasn’t about good or bad – nobody came and that was significant. It was not the quality of the film. People go to bad films all the time. Every Star Trek movie opened bigger and that spoke to how the fans were sick of us. Maybe if we waited a few more years and come back it would have been a different story. The first weekend was dismal and that wasn’t word of mouth or Data dying, that was that the fans were not interested.


Spiner as Data saving Picard shortly before sacrificing himself in "Star Trek: Nemesis"

TrekMovie: Well let me ask the obligatory JJ Abrams question. Did you see the 2009 Star Trek movie? And any thoughts on it or the sequel?

Brent Spiner: I saw it and found it totally entertaining. And no doubt I will see the next one. It was a nice action movie and I enjoyed it.

TrekMovie: Some fans are assuming – or hoping – that some day they will reboot The Next Generation with new younger actors. What do you think about that notion? And if you had to pick a twenty-something actor to be the new Data, do you have anyone in mind?

Brent Spiner: I don’t know any twenty-something actors [laughs]. I do think it is likely they will reboot Next Generation some day. I don’t see Star Trek ever ending. I think it would better if they went further into the future, past were we did or the original series or Voyager or Deep Space or any of them, and continues the saga. I am not that keen on going backwards because then it becomes history instead of the future.

TrekMovie: Wrapping up, are there any other projects besides Fresh Hell that you are working on that you can share with the fans?

Brent Spiner: Yes, but I can’t. I am working on something, but I feel I shouldn’t say something.

TrekMovie: Is it in the world of music or acting?

Brent Spiner: Acting, if you can call it that [laughs].

TrekMovie: Well thank you for taking the time.

Brent Spiner: No problem, thank you.


Spiner in the latest episode of "Fresh Hell"

 

Comments

1. Red Dead Ryan - March 23, 2012

If they ever do reboot TNG–which I doubt will happen–then they should cast the actor who played Loki in “Thor” as Data. He’s a dead ringer for a young Brent Spiner.

2. Rekkert - March 23, 2012

“Acting, if you can call it that [laughs].”

Why do I get the feeling that this means he will appear in a video game that uses face imprinting software like L.A. Noire or Assassin’s Creed?
Now that would be cool!

3. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - March 23, 2012

Space Africans… priceless! (And a terrible concept, indeed).

I’ve always liked Spiner, and think he has great comedic timing.

I have to admit, I am in the camp of those who dislike Data’s death and the whole B4 development. It’s not that I’m nostalgic, it’s just that it felt forced, from a scriptwriting point of view.

As with Kirk’s death in Generations, sometimes closure is just unnecessary and actually takes away from good plot development.

4. T'Cal - March 23, 2012

TNG:TAS! Brent does a wicked Picard voice…

5. somethoughts - March 23, 2012

Data rebooted

http://i56.tinypic.com/2wh2ogy.jpg

6. Magic_Al - March 23, 2012

“I am not that keen on going backwards because then it becomes history instead of the future.”

Exactly right. Nostalgia for when we imagined a bright future vs. imagining a bright future.

7. Stephen Walker - March 23, 2012

“Nobody came” to Nemesis because previous movies were stinkers, namely Insurrection and Generations. It was not due to franchise fatigue.

8. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - March 23, 2012

Gonna check out Fresh Hell. I like Extras a lot, so the comparison intrigues me. Another sign I like his taste in TV shows is the Boardwalk Empire comment… I am absolutely in love with that show.

As an aside, I wish that Threshold (2005) – with Brent Spiner, Carla Gugino, and Peter Dinklage – had been blessed with a better story and ratings, so that could have been renewed for more seasons. It was one of those rare cases (for me) in which the story was admittedly poor, but the acting and dialog were so good I didn’t care. I wish that show had been more like Fringe — then it would have been unstoppable!

9. jamesingeneva - March 23, 2012

@Red Dead Ryan and @SomeThoughts, you’re not kidding! He does look the part.

10. Baroner - March 23, 2012

If Shatner was in Nemesis it would’ve rocked! Same goes for the new movie coming up – get Shatner in the movie!!!!

11. Baroner - March 23, 2012

(ok, that was a bit spastic, but someone has to keep lobbying for the Shat. He won’t be with us much longer and it would be just too great to have him receive the proper last hurrah, on screen, as he and the fans deserve).

12. somethoughts - March 23, 2012

Watching TNG after school in the 90s was the best.

The problem with the TNG movies was that they were so fixated on Picard and Data vs villain, the series wasnt about that.

13. Hat Rick - March 23, 2012

I like Brent Spiner. He seems to be a realistic and well-grounded person.

I wish him well.

14. Bradley - March 23, 2012

Tom Hiddleston as Data in the JJ-verse version of TNG, with Brent Spiner as an older Noonian Soong. Who’s with me?

15. Sebastian S. - March 23, 2012

I admire his candor about his work. It’s kind of refreshing to hear a ST actor who doesn’t pretend he/she loves the show, or that all the episodes were ‘important television’, etc.

He simply says, I did them, watched them once, moved on….

Good for him. And “Fresh Hell” is pretty funny to me. It’s as if a classic, 1970′s Woody Allen had done these….

16. Douglas - March 23, 2012

#7 I think you are correct.
Generations had some good moments and beautiful photography but the plot felt like something that “had” to be done to introduce the TNG cast to films.
Insurrection was quite boring at times and characters overacting or underacting, nobody was on the same page. They seem to all have different ideas of what the film was about. It came off as a pretentious revolt at a new-age spa.
Finally, Nemesis, with many fans turned off by Generations and Insurrection, just didn’t want to waste the time and money to be bored again. I can see why it was the final nail in the coffin of the franchise. It was so slow that the many slow motion segments could just make you cringe.
Brent Spiner is a brilliant talent but the reputation of Trek by that time was awful.
JJ Abrams, and his team, performed a miracle in reviving Trek.
They have many bad examples of Trek to learn from and good ones to inspire.

17. somethoughts - March 23, 2012

Rick Berman also had no idea how to produce epic sci fi movie, he was still thinking it was ok to go cheap on sets, special effects and really had no grand movie vision.

18. Ned Kelly - March 23, 2012

@5 Great render, did you do that yourself?

Tom Hiddleston is 31 years old, so they had better get a move on if he is going to be Data. Hey how about this maybe Brent can’t talk about his next part because he is playing Data in ST 2013?

19. Ned Kelly - March 23, 2012

@ 14 I’m with you!

20. somethoughts - March 23, 2012

#18

No just googled :)

21. ML31 - March 23, 2012

I guess it is hard to tell if an episode will end up good or bad while filming… But I find it hard to believe that he didn’t think anything involving Data’s evil twin Lore could be anything but cliche soap opera lameness.

22. Joel1245 - March 23, 2012

I’m not sure if I agree with Spiner that people were tired of TNG as much as they felt that TNG had gone out with a whisper, not a bang. For one thing, First Contact was epic but after that, the next two (including Nemesis) felt like glorified episodes compared to the first seven where there was something epic about each movie that changed something in a big way. The last two TNG movies felt like they were half-hearted efforts by Paramount, not the fans. The TNG crew sold the problem and went on there way. One movie didn’t affect the next in any way at all.

BTW, Trekmovie, you need to change the background on your site to something like dark blue or black. I had to copy that interview, past it into work and turn the background black to comfortably read it. I’m just saying…lol

23. somethoughts - March 23, 2012

TNG crew should have encountered a truely alien lost civilization that is mysterious and solve some mystery like final unity/indy style space adventure. Instead we got low budget wtf hippies on planet that are like omish and some silly picard clone flick @@

24. somethoughts - March 23, 2012

First Contact was good but could have been better. Generations had many problems, fist fight on retirement mountain and contrived nexus.

25. Cygnus-X1 - March 23, 2012

TrekMovie: “Did you see the 2009 Star Trek movie? And any thoughts on it or the sequel?”

Brent Spiner: “It was a nice action movie and I enjoyed it.”

Exactly.

ST09 was an action movie, not a sci-fi movie. That and the tilt toward the characters’ emotional self-indulgence are the two most fundamental changes that Abrams & Co. have made to Trek. More running to and fro, and more emoting about everything (especially Spock, which largely negates the premise of that character).

26. Cygnus-X1 - March 23, 2012

P.S. – Great interview, Anthony.

27. somethoughts - March 23, 2012

No more movies about x coming to destroy earth :)

Tmp, voyage home, first contact, nemesis, st09,

28. Vultan - March 23, 2012

Generations and Insurrection had a lot of things wrong with them, but at least the planets being threatened weren’t Earth for a change.

In the next movie, I’d like to see Pluto threatened… for… no reason whatsoever. Hey, it’s not a planet anyway. Out there hanging with its little buddies. Has to be different with that weird orbit. So, let’s just blow it up! C’mon, who’s with me?!

29. Buzz Cagney - March 23, 2012

Personally i find it extremely unlikely that they will reboot TNG. Because of the changes they would need to make to make it acceptable to todays audience they might as well do a new show.

30. Vultan - March 23, 2012

#29

Buzz! How’s it going? How’s the job hunt?

31. Spacecadet - March 23, 2012

In my opinion – and I am not tired to say this – NEMESIS was a great movie. Okay, some of the deleted scenes would have made it even better, but the story was more philosophical in a “roddenberry-like” way and bigger than “Insurrection”.

I remember, when I came out of the cinema I told my (now Ex-) Wife, “they have done it, it is perfect! Now the next gen will start will full speed to the next movies. It will be a great success!”

Well, Taste is different, but I do not like the fans who are blaming the actual version of Star Trek, whatever this might be. Some blamed TNG, when it was actual in the cinemas, some are now blaming the new version, etc. If Star Trek should really have a chance, the fans should bring forward their tolerance with new ideas… ;)

32. Jason S. - March 24, 2012

@31

I mostly agree with what you have to say. What I really want is for the powers that be to skip all this re-boot crap and go back to new stories set in the Prime Universe. However, keeping in mind how obsessed the powers that be are with re-boots, I at least wish that there had been one more film inbetween “Nemesis” and JJ-Trek to properly wrap up the Prime Universe and give us fans better closure. That and something set durring the Romulan War, I want to see that story so bad!

33. Gooseneck Fan - March 24, 2012

Tom Hiddleston is practically a Brent Spiner clone! I thought so the minute I saw him in Thor — but — I doubt anyone will ever reboot TNG. There’s just too many hours of TNG available for viewing.

See, that — to me — is the one thing that sets most modern treks apart from TOS: 7 seasons of episodes (Enterprise excluded of course) per series.

I think it’s true that a lot of people were sick of the TNG cast by the time Nemesis came out. However, it’s regrettable the TNG cast didn’t get a proper cinematic “farewell” like the TOS cast did in TUC…

34. El Chup - March 24, 2012

Spiner is absolutely right. We should go further in the prime universe, boldly going where no man has gine before.

The Abrams films may be good entertainment and successful, but repeated attempts to milk alternate versions of exist Trek periods is boldy going after old ground IMO.

35. VulcanFilmCritic - March 24, 2012

@34 El Chup. I would totally love to see a future Trek.

Hey, Mr. Spiner, don’t just toss off these ideas. Sit down and write something and become an executive producer.

In a future Trek universe, maybe have the fragile peace established in TNG fall apart. The whole galaxy is now a battleground. Even the Vulcans have gone back to certain war-like ways, just to survive. Or perhaps they would become like Gedi knights, trying to form alliances diplomatically but backing up that diplomacy with cool weapons and mad fighting skills.
The Federation is chaotic with lots of bickering and border wars. (Just like today’s world.)

But there’s something out there much worse than Klingons, and Romulans, and the Borg. And it’s about to enter this galaxy.

Oh please, somebody do a new Trek.

36. Khan 2.0 - March 24, 2012

TNG reboot cast (if they rebooted in the next few years)

Picard – Mark Strong
Riker – Brandon Routh
Data – Tom Hiddleston
LaForge – Chwietel Ejiofor
Crusher – Gillian Anderson
Troi -Eva longoria/Mendes
Worf – Jason Momoa
Yar – Ali Larter
Wesley – Justin Beiber(j/k)
Guinan – Halle Berry

37. Khan 2.0 - March 24, 2012

and if theyd done Encounter at Farpoint as a big movie instead of a tv pilot in 1987:

Picard – Sean Connery
Riker -Christopher Reeve
Data -Sam Neil
LaForge – Wesley Snipes
Crusher-Susan Sarandon
Troi -Carrie Fisher
Worf-Bill Duke
Yar -Vasquez from ‘Aliens’
Wesley-River Phonix
Q-Bill Murray

38. Kirk, James T. - March 24, 2012

See I think there’s another TNG movie out there in the shape of Star Trek: Countdown…

If I were to reboot the TNG universe I’d do it with these characters….

Picard – Tom Hardy
Data – Tom Hiddleston (Loki from Thor)
Worf – Idris Elba
Riker – Zachary Levi
Crusher – Karen Gillian (Amy Pond from Doctor Who)
LaForge – Terrence Howard
Troi – Rebecca Hazlewood
Yar -Elisha Cuthbert

Q – Bill Murray would be fantastic

39. Lore - March 24, 2012

Masks? A fan favorite? I don’t recall that one being a favorite… maybe a favorite to despise.

40. Gooseneck Fan - March 24, 2012

#39 — I laughed when I read that. I’ve seen it referred toss the “Spocks Brain” of TNG…

41. SoonerDew - March 24, 2012

I remember thinking of “The Masks” as one of the low points of TNG. Let’s face it; it was stupid.

The TNG movies were so cerebral and absent legitimate dramatic conflict that they were nearly doomed before the first frame was shot. Also, TNG was migrated directly to the big screen from TV, so there was no sense of loss, no sense of reunion, no sense of having been “missed” by the fandom. That couldn’t have been more departed from the mythos of TOS, where we went a decade with no original Trek productions (and, no, TAS doesn’t count), so the “pent up” enthusiasm was off the charts.

TNG was good, at times great, but the overarching theme was Trek in a Flying Marriott, nothing was ever messy, nothing was ever anything less than antiseptic. TOS had a ragged impurity to it that was nearly genetic, and I think was part of the DNA of its appeal. When TNG just moved to the movies, the response was “meh,” because (with the exception of First Contact, arguably), the movies were nothing more than longer TV episodes with characters no one cared about, with predetermined outcomes….and in that vein, Johnathan Frakes or (insert favorite director here) at the helm of Nemesis wouldn’t have helped it, nor that horrendous opening weekend. It wasn’t *franchise* fatigue, it was *boring story* fatigue. There’s a huge difference. And, yes, I’m squarely in the Blame Berman camp.

If they ever wanted to do Trek again on TV, they need to take an evolving ensemble cast mentality as they did with the great “Law and Order” franchise. Let key characters move in and out of roles as they do in real life. Cultivate some sense of legitimacy or authenticity, as it were.

42. MikeTen - March 24, 2012

#11 Baroner, To paraphrase Riker in Generations, I hope Mr. Shatner lives forever.

43. Matt - March 24, 2012

If you want to know why each movie (YES EVEN FIRST CONTACT) was bad just watch these reviews if you haven’t seen them already.

http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-trek/

44. HWMNBN - March 24, 2012

@SoonerDew, in response to your “evolving ensemble cast mentality” point, what about STARGATE SG-1 and ATLANTIS? Both of these had characters moving on (Daniel Jackson ascending, O’Neill leaving in favor of Cameron Mitchell, Vala Mal Doran, and the ever-rotating Atlantis commander and doctor post.

WIth the possible exception of Gen. Landry replacing Gen. Hammond, almost none of these new characters were as remotely interesting as their predecessors.

45. Thorny - March 24, 2012

“Masks” was horrible. Sure, you’ll find some fans who love it. You’ll probably even find fans who like “Code of Honor”, but “Masks” was further evidence that TNG was almost out of steam. Mr. Spiner seems to be misremembering that a bit, because Colm Meaney was on DS9 by then and was not in “Masks.”

43. I don’t let reviewers tell me what to like and what to not like. I thought “First Contact” was excellent.

46. DeShonn Steinblatt - March 24, 2012

Spiner is absolutely right. Enterprise failed because it was a prequel to a known future. Whereas the new Trek was a blockbuster because a reboot brings us back to an unknown future where anything can happen.

As long as we stay out of the prime universe, where everything is so familiar and overdone, the audience boredom and lack of enthusiasm for post Nemesis stories will never return again.

Oh, and the audience boredom was not your fault, Brent.

47. chrisfawkes.com - March 24, 2012

Nemesis failed for two reasons. 1. Insurrection was so bad so that was going to cost bums on seats and 2. It was a dog of a movie, worse than insurrection.

Fans are gagging for trek right now and Brent’s theory would reflect in a surge of dvd sales for Nemesis and that has not happened.

I think that crew really let themselves off the hook gently. No one was to blame except the fans. What a load of rubbish.

Data should never have been given the emotion chip. That made for nothing more than bad comedy.

First contact was the best of the tng movies and that was because the Borg were a great villain. Other than that tng characters were never fully fleshed out enough to be interesting for movies. Great for television but less than what they needed to be for the big screen.

48. somethoughts - March 24, 2012

All Good Things….should have been a movie

Thats a proper send off.

49. MC1 Doug - March 24, 2012

“Star Trek The Next Generation” should have ended with “All Good Things.” that finale was the perfect send off.

The movies were too different. Too much Picard, too much Data… too little ensemble… and if anything, it was just too soon after the series came to an end. One reason “Star Trek The Motion Picture” was so eagerly anticipated (and yes, successful) was because we had had a number of years wanting for it.

Paramount got greedy with the series and gave us too much of a good thing… Even Rick Berman tried to dissuade executives of doing “Voyager” and “Enterprise” saying it was too soon, too much.

50. Red Dead Ryan - March 24, 2012

I don’t think Brent Spiner was blaming the fans. TNG at that point, unfortunately, had lived past its usefulness and sci-fi on the big screen was becoming bigger, better and bolder, with Trek remaining as a small-screen self-reverential nostalgia piece.

“Star Wars: Episode II: Attack of The Clones”, and “Lord Of The Rings:The Two Towers” came out that year, and showed what big budgets and epicness could do to bring in audiences.

“Nemesis” in my opinion wasn’t bad, it was good, but not good enough. And as a result, people went to see “Harry Potter” and “Lord Of The Rings” instead.

“Nemesis” was too much too late. Brent was right, people had become bored of TNG and were ready to move on. I think that time was the beginning of the TOS renaissance.

Also, I don’t think TNG can be rebooted. I think that show had covered just about everything. I mean, are we going to see new versions of “The Best Of Both Worlds” and “All Good Things…”? Or are the those episodes going to be ignored? I just think there is too much canon, and plot laid out by TNG that any reboot would come under too much scrutiny to work.

51. Fueled by Armus - March 24, 2012

I’d rather see them get a new ship – Enterprise or not – a new crew and stick them further in the future. I don’t want to watch another unimaginative rehash of a future we’ve already seen. I miss the days when ST really was futuristic.

I don’t think the next generation crew lent itself well to a feature-length film. Unless they broke it up into a trilogy, there were simply too many people (much like DS9) to make a good movie. While TOS had Kirk, Spock, and McCoy, TNG lacked that dynamic triangle and really had too large a cast to give them all the screen time they really needed.

I think they made a mistake putting TNG on the big screen. It always seemed like they *had* to because TOS made feature films, not because it was a good format for the TNG cast.

52. somethoughts - March 24, 2012

They can just do a sci fi future exploration show with no established canon, go around exploring space, complex issues, set it 10,000 years into the future where mankind has colonies on the moon, mars and is charting the space outside of our solar system.

Something that looks like Prometheus without the face huggers and aliens that pop out of chests.

Don’t just talk about it, show it, casinos on the moon etc. cruises in space, mining companies on different planets, less war and more social commentary about how the humans as progressed and what kind of cool technology that exists that we don’t have today.

No boring aliens with cheap makeup either, that green villain alien from Galaxy Quest now that was cool.

Let James Cameron do a Sci Fi future earth/space show on tv

53. Pensive's Wetness - March 24, 2012

Nice interview. When i was reading the nemesis portion, i suddenly imagined that right after Data hit the buttons to make the ship go boom, Q tapped his shoulder and offered him a job… XD. I could imagine the Q-race doing that often for more interesting individuals in the universe, ala Gary-7?

54. Vultan - March 24, 2012

#52

There used to be a show like that on TV… can’t remember the name of it. Anyway, it was set in space, had an optimistic tone, weird alien civilizations, etc. But then it got tired, remade over and over, and is now being mined for all its pop culture value.

Oh well. Happens to the best of them, I guess.

55. LJ - March 24, 2012

I believe there are a number of reasons the TNG films, as a whole, failed:

1. The characters were just not that interesting. Of the two most three-dimensional characters (Picard and Worf), one (Picard) was changed too dramatically for the films, and the other (Worf) – whilst being one of the two most important characters in the whole franchise in-universe (alongside Spock) was criminally underused, and furthermore, reduced to comic relief.

Riker – A terminal underachiever, too content in his position of riding under Picard’s wing, and scared to make the step up to his own command: it would’ve been interesting if this, which is obvious for fans of the series, was made more explicit (no doubt many will disagree with that assessment);

Crusher – Why not make the implied romantic tension with Picard pay off? What if Wesley was Picard’s son, not Jack’s? I know many who believe this is the case anyway;

Troi – Was boring from the start. Would’ve preferred to see her die in S1 and Yar live. Yar had much more dramatic potential: Troi tended to ‘bring stories down’.

Data – They gave him the emotion chip too early in the movie series, which took away the growth potential and dramatic potential of his character. The comedy was too forced too.

Geordi – Too strait laced and by-the-book compared to the jovial and forthright Scotty. His handicap had potential for storytelling, but in reality he brought little to the table.

Compare them to the TOS characters. Even though Scotty, Uhura, Sulu and Chekov were even less developed in the series, they had their own idiosyncrasies, character and humanity that we all remember. They were believable as real people. Most of the TNG characters (Worf and Picard excluded) just felt like Joe from Admin.

2. The TOS films, even Final Frontier, had an ‘epic’ feel about them. Even though sometimes the effects were ropey, the stories were engaging, with real things at stake. We ‘felt’ the loss of Decker, the death of Spock, the destruction of the Enterprise, the assassination of Gorkon. In the TNG films, there was no tension, no real sense of danger, of loss;

3. In the TOS films, the dangers were ‘global’: the future of the Earth, of the Federation were at stake. In the TNG films, this all felt more ‘provincial’: there was no real connection between the audience and the conflict.

4. The TOS characters were more ‘human’. As so much time had passed since the TV series, the characters were so much older. These issues were addressed in the films, particularly with Kirk, who was no longer so sure of his place in the world as he was in the TV show. This lended a realism and believability to the characters. The TNG films probably came too soon to show a real growth in the characters, or a realistic move down their arc.

Sorry for the long post: a lot to say, and I’m sure I missed some stuff too.

56. Romulus - March 24, 2012

TNG was a reboot so the likely hood of a reboot of a reboot is remote.

57. somethoughts - March 24, 2012

#54

Lol my versions cooler with no cheese, baggage or conventions ;)
It will be like matrix/inception/prometheus in space but cooler.

No technobabble or bad bsg/ds9 cheesy wars

58. Schultz - March 24, 2012

“I think it would better if they went further into the future, past where we did or the original series or Voyager or Deep Space or any of them, and continued the saga. I am not that keen on going backwards because then it becomes history instead of the future.”

Absolutely. Totally second that.

59. LJ - March 24, 2012

As an addendum to my previous post, I’d just like to say that the crux of the problem I (and I’m sure many others, both Trek fans and non-fans) have with TNG is the lack of conflict. In TOS, characters would argue, disagree and sometimes physically fight. The same is true in DS9. This is why I feel these are probably the two strongest series. When I’m teaching writing to kids, I always mention ‘no conflict, no story’. True there was always a ‘problem/conflict’ to be solved in TNG, however there sometimes seemed to be no ‘connect’ between the characters and that conflict. There was also no real character growth or consequence as a result of the episode. It was just not very good as dramatic fiction, especially with the over-reliance on deus ex machina resolutions (again to rear their ugly head in VOY). Cf DS9, where the actions of the characters had real consequences to both them and the world they inhabited: that’s real storytelling.

60. Jonboc - March 24, 2012

As JJ’s blockbuster proved, people weren’t tired of Star Trek. They were, quite simply, tired of the Berman era interpretation of Star Trek. As was I. I have no yearnings for it’s return…ever.

61. Orb of Wisdom - March 24, 2012

@23 so basically you’re saying Picard and crew should have encountered the Caeliar from the Destiny novel trilogy?

62. Orb of Wisdom - March 24, 2012

Also, ‘Masks’ was ‘out there’.. and for those who hate it, ‘out there’ is exactly what TOS was. Soooo… ‘Masks’ was the most in the spirit of TOS, in my opinion. As was ‘Genesis’, though darker.

63. Thorny - March 24, 2012

62…But times change, what was good for TOS wasn’t necessarily good for TNG. “Out there” isn’t automatically good, and “Masks” was far from good, in my opinion. Neither was “Genesis”, which had perhaps the worst scientific premise in Trek history.

64. Red Dead Ryan - March 24, 2012

#57.

What was so “cheesy” and “bad” about the wars featured on DS9 and BSG?

As for “Masks”, there were worse episodes. I kind of got an “ancient Maya/Olmec/Aztec/Inca” vibe with that episode. It would have been interesting if the writers made that connection.

65. Red Dead Ryan - March 24, 2012

“Genesis” was badly written for sure, at least in terms of believability, but it sure as hell was entertaining. The make-up effects were great.

66. Vultan - March 24, 2012

I liked that Barclay turned into a spider. Why? No reason. He just happened to have arachnid ancestors.

Yeah, “Genesis” did have some bad science. But it was fun, and the scenes of Picard running and hiding from the Worf monster are probably the scariest Trek has ever gotten.

67. Fueled by Armus - March 24, 2012

#55 You make some really good points.

I think they screwed up Riker from the beginning by giving him so many opportunities to turn down promotions. I know I wouldn’t have given his position on the ship a second thought if I didn’t know that Starfleet was so anxious to give him his own command. My only guess is that they wanted to show that someone was willing to give up promotion/s because the Enterprise is just the bestest thing ever, but instead it really weakened his character. They could have gone so many ways with his reluctance to have his own command but they utterly failed in that regard.

I think I would have enjoyed Beverly’s character a lot more if she and Picard either slept together or had an awkward date and realized they really were better off as really close friends. I never really bought their romantic chemistry, but I would have liked the idea that he had a close friend on board who knew him before he was the stoic captain. The way she was written, she was pretty much relegated to “token source of romantic tension” and “mother of the whizkid”.

I think Tori and Yar were just as boring – unfortunately. There really isn’t a way to make a counselor interesting – their very task is to be that annoying person stating the obvious. Her very function is to be a professional buzzkill. The fact that Yar’s character was constantly mentioning her hardships made her a bit over-dramatic in a really bad way. Now if they had combined their characters (Yar’s history with Troi’s profession) I think we would have had a winner. It was too easy for Yar to want to be in security given her history – now if she had decided to hang up the warrior schtick and help folks? That’d been interesting. Maybe part of why Troi is ‘boring’ is that it’s sort of obvious to be a counselor if you can sense emotion?

I really didn’t have a problem with Data or Geordi. I thought they balanced each other out fairly well and I liked their relationship. I do agree that Picard was changed way too much between the end of the series and the films.

Don’t get me wrong, I really enjoyed TNG, it just gets on my nerves that there were so many missed opportunities for character development.

68. Jack - March 24, 2012

39. Agreed. Masks was horrible. Maybe this is why these guys are so out of touch when trying to appeal to fans — because they’re only listening to the fans with lousy taste and judgement. :)

69. Jesse - March 24, 2012

Personally, I’m strongly against revisiting TNG or any of the other series with new actors. They should just let the old series stand on their own, and create new characters and new stories. That way, they would have much more freedom with the characters and setting, and woudn’t have to replace old continuity.

70. Jesse - March 24, 2012

In other words, I agree with Mr. Spiner.

71. Jack - March 24, 2012

69. Agreed!

72. Bucky - March 25, 2012

I made a point to never watch a Plinket review of anything, until I just caved and watched about 5 minutes total skipping around the First Contact and Star Trek reviews and it was quite possibly one of the most irritating things I’ve seen in my life.

73. DonDonP1 - March 25, 2012

With all respect to some people, even Brent Spiner, that TNG reboot is not going to happen. I wish CBS would sometime launch a new ‘Star Trek’ series sometime in or before 2016 (marking the 50th anniversary of the franchise), no matter which era or reality, whether between “Enterprise” and the original series, or between “Nemesis” and “Countdown” (the “Star Trek XI” comic book prequel) or between “Countdown” and “Online” or during “Online” or after “Online”.

74. Battle-scarred Sciatica - March 25, 2012

Cameron creating scifi for TV?
Please no!
He’s done some good stuff in the past but if that shite Avatar is anything to go by he’ll kill it quicker than a comeback from Berman!
Out into the future I say! Prime or JJverse -preferably prime.
Make it new, majorly futuristic (even by today’s standards- think Culture) and above all interesting Star Trek.
All JJ’s secrecy is pissing me off and I’m becoming less and less excited about the next installment.

Bring Trek back to TV. That’s where it should be. Not in the 2 hour wam bam thank you mam Hollywood whore machine.

75. Dom - March 25, 2012

The TNG films were all cheap-looking … even First Contact. They failed to balance the series’ TV origins with a movie’s requirements in the writing. And, more than anything, most of the characters weren’t interesting enough and the actors good enough film actors to make them work on the big screen.

TNG worked well on TV and it’s no criticism of a successful show and its ensemble cast to say they don’t belong in movies. There’s still a perception that a TV show shifting to the cinema is a promotion of some kind. I’d argue it isn’t and TOS moving to the cinema, long term, successfully is a rarity!

Great TV series, like a lot of modern cable dramas we see now, are made for a specific medium. I don’t want to see them in the cinema and the show’s creators aren’t treating their seven seasons as a dry run for the cinema, whereas I suspect most TNG people on either side of the camera had movie ambitions from the outset.

76. chrisfawkes.com - March 25, 2012

@55, good thoughts and well said,

I’ll only add that Worf was never fully developed either. Coming from a race where honor was so entrenched in their thinking there would have been many ways of saying it instead of simply regurgitating the word honor over and over.

And there was never any payoff for the inner warrior. Worf was an emasculated character unfortunately. He could have been the wild card.

Making it that he was raised by human parents was also lame.

77. Fueled by Armus - March 25, 2012

#76 I don’t think the fact that he was raised by human parents was lame, just that they did little to show the effect that had on him. It was rather pointless to have him raised by humans but still grow up to be such a conservative Klingon. There wasn’t any payoff for how we were beaten over the heads with that information. All we needed to see was his parents or one mention of his parents being human. Then onto the next new detail.

Maybe I’ve just caught a lot of Worf episodes lately, but I feel like I was beat over the head with the notion that Worf was more Klingon than a lot of Klingons despite being raised by humans.

It didn’t help that his physical prowess was overshadowed by Data.

I really hope the next ST series takes more time developing their characters so there isn’t as much overlap in what they bring to the table.

78. Bender Bending Rodriguez - March 25, 2012

This is a great interview! Thanks, Anthony!

I am like many fans that want to see more ST:TNG with the original cast. They are not “too old” and there are more stories that can be told. I hope that one day something can happen, but maybe I should not hold my breath.

79. LJ - March 25, 2012

@ 76 and 77: My thoughts of Word in the movies were also that (certainly in Insurrection and Nemesis) they undid a lot of the character development that was made on DS9. At the end of DS9, he’d turned down rule of the Klingon Empire in favour of Martok, become a widower (again), been promoted to Ambassador to the Klingon Empire.

They could have made something of his new, higher, status in Alpha Quadrant politics, similar to the manner in which we saw the beginnings of Spock’s transition from Starfleet officer to diplomat in TUC.

Just throwing one out there, but maybe it could’ve been acting in a diplomatic role for the Federation with the Kilngons’ blood enemies that gets him killed in Nemesis rather than (or as well as) Data.

I do agree, however, that the TNG era Klingons did become a little one-note with the over-reliance on the notion of ‘honour’. Not least because the idea of them as such a noble race kind of clashes with the way we saw them in TOS: they would appear to be natural allies of humans (and by extension, the Federation), rather than the bitter enemies they were.

I would’ve liked to see a little less of the ‘warrior’ and ‘honour’ aspects, and more of a look at other aspects of their culture: science, trade, etc. It would also be good to get a look at some of the other inhabitants of the Empire, as surely it can’t be that homogenous.

80. locutus v2 2 - March 25, 2012

ya i don;t agree with spiner. Nemesis sucked because they had john logan involved. he wanted to do a darker story, which star trek shgould be positive, and they killed data. it’s canon, but i think it’s the worst film they did- derp

81. Red Dead Ryan - March 25, 2012

#80.

It wasn’t Logan who was the problem; it was Stuart Baird. He’s an editor not a director. But the irony is his direction resulted in a movie that could have been better edited. Some of those deleted scenes were pretty good. And some scenes (like the mental rape*) should have been deleted.

*I don’t want to see any more “mental rape” scenes in Trek ever again. We saw that in TUC, on an episode of TNG, and “Nemesis”. There might have been another couple of times we saw that happen as well. It comes off as cheesy, and embarrassing to watch. And it adds nothing to the drama.

82. somethoughts - March 25, 2012

#64

Just personal taste

83. somethoughts - March 25, 2012

#75

Well said

84. somethoughts - March 25, 2012

#79

I hated how Klingons became these vikings who did nothing else but act like idiots

85. Dr. Image - March 25, 2012

Nemesis sucked because of a BAD SCRIPT.
There’s no way around it.
No amount of rationalization could possibly make it any different.

86. Tony Todd's Tears - March 25, 2012

Dick Winters would make a good Data in a JJ Verse reboot I think.

87. LizardGirl - March 25, 2012

#33
You are onto something I never thought about. I’ve kind of grown up on reboots so to do a complete new trek never occurred to me! But there’s so much potential there, combining all the best elements of Trek.

TOS (great story telling),
TNG/VOY (engaging character developments)
ST09 (great action and entertainment quality)

Also I never gave a second thought to the Prime universe. It was like a footnote in the movie but there could be endless ways to explore future Trek. I would love a TV series of Star Trek for my generation which wouldn’t lean too much on older series because most people of my generation haven’t watched them.

I’m, like, visualizing the sleek look of T09 on a TV screen with the latest visual effects. There would definitely be a big screen quality to it. JJ Abrams’ Fringe comes to mind. Or even Heroes.

But I have to say, a great fanservice would be the introduction of the offspring of some of the older characters as a unique tie to the past. Offspring of: Spock (of course), descendant of Riker, descendant of Tom Paris, Worf (please!) and maybe a few more. They could do some cool things with the technology of the future trek: starships, warp tech, etc. Maybe some unique alien species.

They’d have a freer creative license and since it would be the Prime universe they could essentially do whatever they want as long as it has Star Trek appeal. Now I’m not going to stop thinking about this!!!

88. CmdrR - March 25, 2012

If they do reboot TNG, please don’t call it TNG. That ALWAYS sounded like right out of the gate they were acknowledging they were second to TOS. Just call it Star Trek, and let the lazy viewing audience read a review or look at a poster, for cryin’ out loud.

No idea who’ll play who. Maybe Blanket Jackson will play Picard by then.

89. LOFC_Ed - March 26, 2012

I’d go back and have Tom Hardy as Picard again.

90. DS9 IN PRIME TIME - March 26, 2012

I agree if they do another show it should be set in the future because prequals are not what star trek is about. I think 50 years after voyager in the prime timeline would be awsome. Also, they should start it for 2016 for the 50th anniversary!!

91. SoonerDave - March 26, 2012

@44 “But what about and ”

Don’t know those shows, never watched them, don’t care about them.

I was making the specific suggestion that a technique that kept a franchise active and viable for two decades might have a few notions from which those who might helm some theoretical TV/Trek rebirth might learn. Personally, I seriously doubt you’ll *ever* see Trek return to TV in any form, so the discussion is more or less moot, anyway.

92. Kang - March 26, 2012

One of the many problems with Nemesis for me was Tom Hardy as a young Picard clone.

As good an actor as Hardy is, there was nothing convincing about him as a younger version of Picard. He was unable to conjure up anything in his voice, expressions or mannerisms to reveal any hint of Patrick Stewart’s portrayal of Picard. Yes, yes, nature versus nurture, but nevertheless there was no resemblance there beyond them both being bald.

This blew a hole into the basic premise of the movie. And I won’t even get started on B-4….

93. Paul - March 26, 2012

Nemesis bombed because it was very poorly written so the director had nothing to work with when Paramount low balled the budget again (although the direction was poor regardless).

Spiner & Stewart both had creative control over Star Treks 9 + 10 & look how they turned out!! There was at the time stories in the online media about power struggles between Berman vs Spiner/Stewart over storylines & the big rumour was Spiner/Stewart tried to get Berman removed from the process altogether………

We all know the results so perhaps Spiner could be a little more forthcoming as that is something fans WOULD like to hear about!!!

94. Damian - March 26, 2012

I know I’m in the minority, but I really didn’t have that many issues with Nemesis (though maybe they should have had Stewart play his own clone since they are supposed to be the same person–go figure). I thought it was a decent enough film, not the best, but not the worse film I ever saw. I don’t know about franchise fatigue, but I think there was some movie fatigue going on. Paramount released it at the worse possible time. Between a Harry Potter film, Lord of the Rings, and a James Bond film all at the same time. Had Paramount waited a few months, it may have done somewhat better.

I’m probably one of the few people that liked both Nemesis and Star Trek (2009). But, I like to be different:)

95. Shannon Nutt - March 26, 2012

Brent gets it! The first cast member who understands why Nemesis bombed. It wasn’t just because it was bad (it was), but because people were burnt-out on Star Trek. Star Trek V was as bad (if not worse) than Nemesis, but had a huge opening weekend.

96. somethoughts - March 26, 2012

Nemesis bombed for many reasons.

Low budget
Bad story/plot
Bad slot to open
Previous movie was worst, insurrection
No big big guest stars with good roles
Bad poster, trailer, same stale costumes and flat looking special effects
Bad tittle, Star Trek Nemesis is like saying cold dead fish trying to sell sushi

97. somethoughts - March 26, 2012

Also bad director lol bird what a bird

98. Shilliam Watner - March 26, 2012

If Nemesis would have been better, people would have kept up the momentum for the film, good opening or not. It’s not just a simple matter of people being tired of them. I was ready for a good movie. I didn’t get one, in my opinion. It’s as simple as that.

But Star Trek had become too insulated, and it was attracting only Star Trek fans, and fewer and fewer of those. So maybe some of us were getting sick of TNG. But any franchise has to keep attracting new people, and there was just too much history with these characters for a newcomer to really enjoy and understand what was going on.

That’s why we needed a new beginning, like it or not. The corpse needed reviving. Trek09 did that, and did it pretty well considering they only had two hours vs. hundreds of hours of the previous series.

But I say it’s time for a new TV series! Trek on TV! I say “Fooey” to a movie every four years! No matter how good it might be, Trek needs to go back to series television.

99. Duane Boda - March 27, 2012

The cook….David Miller who competed on the first
year of MasterChef with Gordan Ramsay looks a lot
like Data IF you ask me – twins almost (to a degree)

100. Shannon Nutt - March 27, 2012

@96 There’s a lot of reasons Nemesis failed, but budget was certainly not one of them…it was $60 million – higher than any other TNG movie budget. Granted, inflation is involved, but it roughly got the same (factored for inflation) as any other TNG movie. Insurrection had a $58 million budget; FIrst Contact had a $45 million budget, and Generations had a $35 million budget.

101. somethoughts - March 27, 2012

#100

Compare the budget of nemesis not to other TNGs but to other films who crushed nemesis that year and you will see you get what you invest.

Star Trek never received the tent pole treatment until ST2009.

As I stated budget is only one of the many reasons why nemesis sucked, if all else remained the same and they invested $200million to make nemesis, it would still suck, so good on paramount for not wasting their money on a bad project in nemesis.

102. somethoughts - March 27, 2012

If all TNG films were given $200million budget, the quality may have gone up, maybe you wont get recycled sets, bad stunts, bad special effects. I still cringe seeing tng crew members in insurrection firing bazookas and doing leaps and wheel barrels, I mean its so bad and cheesy. TNG is a tv series and aside from first contact the quality ,and style is really tv movie dvd not meant for cinema.

Cheap, cheesy, bad sci movies with bean counters. Not grand and epic enough, they suffered from picard and data vs enemy syndrome, pity gr wasnt around to kick some ass and make it epic in scope.

103. Red Dead Ryan - March 27, 2012

I agree, by the time “Nemesis” rolled around, Paramount’s cheapness finally came to bite them in the ass. They were able to get away with it during the TOS movie years, specifically 1979-86 because there was nothing else for the fans, and Paramount, after the critical failure of the then-expensive TMP, decided to cut the budget for TWOK. TWOK became a bigger critical, and ROI success, and TSFS and TVH both made a ton of money on similarly small budgets. Even the horrid TFF made some money. TUC did okay as well. So Paramount got the impression that they could do movies on the cheap, and so the producers had no choice but to recycle sets, props, costumes etc. So that continued with the TNG films for the most part. FC was the first Trek film since TMP to use predominantly new sets and costumes. Both “Insurrection” and “Nemesis” would recycle again. And both movies cost $15 million more to make than FC did, yet FC got a far better ROI. J.J Abrams’ “Star Trek” which obviously used entirely new sets, costumes and props, was the most financially successful Trek film to date, at a cost of $250 million. It pulled in about $385 million. Not a great haul in comparison to lets say, “Transformers 2″ which came out soon after, but it was pretty darn good for a Trrek reboot that came with a lot of question marks and skeptics.

FC had the best visual effects of the TNG movies, maybe of all the previous ten. It had a nice blend of CGI and physical models, while both INS and NEM used subpar CGI that looked cheap.

The big budget for J.J Abrams’ film finally allowed for some epic scale and visual effects. And the lesson here is to make money, you have to spend money.

104. chrisfawkes.com - March 27, 2012

But before you spend money you have to have a decent story.

Story trumps budget and you better get that horse and cart in order if you want the film to be a success.

105. Jonathan - March 27, 2012

Extra money for the TNG movies would not have overridden the lackluster writing in Insurrection. Not that I wouldn’t have loved for more investment in those films.

What the TNG films needed to do was advance the lives of the characters forward as the TOS movies had tried to do. Instead, everyone, even Worf, magically ends up in their old spots each film. That is just playing it way too safe.

In terms of writing you could have gone back and looked at where the episodes of TNG were placing the characters lives in the future. Picard/Beverly together. Possible death of Troi. Riker promoted to Admiral. Picard an ambassador.

People’s lives are not static. The TNG characters should have changed and grown after the series finale.

All that being said I did enjoy Generations. I was in college at the time and saw it four times. I even skipped my Speech class for it on the first viewing. Not a difficult choice to make, let me tell you. Astrometrics was cool. “I hate this! It is revolting!” Guinan was nice to see on the big screen. The Enterprise-D looked awesome. Star going nova was cool on the big screen. Enterprise saucer crashing was aweome, looked amazing. Seeing a few of the TOS crew was cool. The visual of the nexus coming towards Soran on the planet was really spectacular. Enterprise-B scenes had some unique perspectives that were new to Star Trek, (i.e. reporters). Bottle of wine floating in space. Demora Sulu. Kirk relinquishes the Captain’s chair to someone else. Nice bookend to TMP where he stole it from Decker.

Other points were awful. Kirk and the bridge. Inside the nexus…kind of boring. Everyone in a different uniform. Sets too dark. Why didn’t Kirk get a funeral in his time or Picard’s?

First contact, what can you say? It was just amazing. Spacewalk! Defiant! Would have been cool if Defiant and Enterprise stayed together throughout the film.

Insurrection. I hate that pimple on Worf’s nose almost as much as I hate the big hand joke in ST’09. Picard’s love interest was incredibly hot, but jeez, right in front of Beverly? Everybody still at their same posts 6 years later? Dominion War forgotten? Why not some kind of crossover with the other series?

Nemesis. Loved Scorpion Fighters! Ships looked great. Crashing the Enterprise into another ship was a nice touch. We had never seen anything quite like it before. Janeway! Nice to focus on the Romulans for a change. Remans were very cool, loved their uniforms.

Picard’s nemesis came across artificial. The Borg were his nemesis. It was really too late for that particular theme. The film was too much of a rehash of old material (Star Trek II). Data’s death was gratuitous. I didn’t feel anything at all for his loss. Why not some kind of crossover with the other series?

“You heard the lady, let’s get to work!” What? Is that what we say when we go into battle? Let’s get to work? Just another day at the office? Just another anomaly?

106. Fueled by Armus - March 27, 2012

I thought all the next generation movies left something to be desired…some more than others. First Contact was probably the most enjoyable, but suddenly Zephram Cochrane was tall and lanky with a long face and Picard was suffering from PTSD from the Borg. I think they already made a mistake with having him assimilated and then right back to work but then to make him so bitter just made it all that much worse. It didn’t help that it was a bit of a rip-off of ST III and IV except Picard’s bitterness put his crew at risk whereas Kirk’s did not.

Another issue with Picard’s character is I think they took it TOO FAR trying to make him gritty and realistic. They should have listened to Spock when he talks to the “good” Kirk about how the crew needs to see their captain in the Enemy Within.

I would have liked Nemesis if it had less Data, Geordi still had the VISOR, and a lot less of the gratuitous mental rape BS. Whether it was conscious or not, what really sunk that film was the fact that any Trek fan seeing it could pick it apart and say which parts appeared to be blatantly ripped off from the previous films. There were no redeeming qualities and I know my friends and I only saw it once and waited for it to come to dvd so we could turn it into a drinking game. In my circle, at least, there was a lot of excitement and build up to this film that ended up just being a joke.

What ticked me off the most about Nemesis was that the Romulans finally made it to the big screen and got a lot of development but were relegated to being just one of many plotlines in the film. Not to mention the mental rape crap, again. It was just ridiculous. And yes, I’m still peeved that the Klingons have such a rich history and development and the Romulans are still largely ignored.

While V wasn’t a strong film, it wasn’t a rip-off and it still had some redeeming character moments. It’s kind of sad when you can say that V had a more cohesive and flowing plot line than Nemesis…but it’s true. It might not have been good, but it wasn’t choppy and slapped together.

107. somethoughts - March 27, 2012

In just over a year we will be enjoying star trek 2013 and will feel lucky how much money and talent they now have to make a proper star trek. I would love to see Brent Spiner or Patrict Stewart in the big screen again, only if it makes sense and done right, GRAND EPIC SCALE HOLY COW MOVIE

108. Bender Bending Rodriguez - March 27, 2012

Nemesis is not my least favorite; that title belongs to ST:V. Stil, I give kudos to Spiner et al for trying, just like I give Shatner a nod for doing so.

There were things I liked about ST:Nemesis. I like ST movies with battle scenes, and this was a good one. The scene where Data leaps from the Enterprise was gripping. When the Enterprise rams the villian’s ship – whoa. And I always like scenes that show Picard’s and Beverly’s affection for each other.

However, since people are musing, I’ll add my sticking points:

1. The whole Romulan coup thing was not believable. That someone who was tossed down a hole somewhere could overthrow the Romulan Senate was too much.

2. Did the villian really need to be a clone of Picard? I mean, I guess that it’s possible that a secret plan to clone the captain could occur and then it would be quashed and then the clone could be thrown down a hole somewhere and that his mistreatment could serve as the basis for revenge. But was that really necessary?

3. “Can I touch your hair?”

4. The picture of Tom Harding as a young Picard. One of the biggest incidents of disregard of fan knowledge in ST history. Every fan knows that a young Picard had hair.

5. Flying a star fighter down a hallway? Really?

6. After being treated so badly by the Romulans, the villian wants to destroy Earth. Huh?

109. Vultan - March 27, 2012

#105

Promoting the TNG crew would’ve been nice, but it’s just not what they seem to want to do in the movies for some reason. Remember “Final Frontier” and “Undiscovered Country”? Just how many captains and commanders did they have serving on that ship?

#108

Shinzon didn’t bother with destroying Romulus. He knew some edgy, hipster screenwriters would do that eventually.

110. Jonathan - March 27, 2012

#109 I hear ya. It would have been a great opportunity to break that mold. At least we got to see Captain Sulu on the Excelsior in TUC. That should have probably happened one film sooner.

#108 Shinzon’s whole motivation was wacked. Felt like someone just wanted to make a Khan for Picard instead of trying to be original.

As long as we’re making wish lists, I would have loved a TNG film based on Imzadi or Vendetta novels.

111. Fueled by Armus - March 27, 2012

I didn’t have a problem with the Romulan Senate plot as it was pretty clear that Shinzon wasn’t as in control of that as he thought. It’s been ages since I’ve watched the film, but my recollection is that he was being manipulated and was likely found and used as a symbol more than achieving all that he did on his own.

I think there was going on with that which wasn’t made clear because well, as we all know, it was a poorly edited film.

I guess I just liked Shinzon and most of the Romulan stuff, I just wish it had been done better….like the rest of the world. lol

112. Red Dead Ryan - March 27, 2012

Picard was bald during his academy days. We saw that in “Tapestry”. In fact, he hadn’t aged a day for the next thirty years after those events. :-D

113. Jack - March 28, 2012

111. The Onion AV club had a pretty good live chat viewing of the thing (everybody watching at the same time) not long ago. It was pretty fun (it got skewered pretty badly). It’s still there on the site (which has pretty great TOS and TNG reviews, btw)

http://www.avclub.com/articles/star-trek-nemesis,66749/

PS. I really hope that, in the next one, they don’t have random sparks and steam shooting out of consoles and the ceiling every time the ship is shot at — if somebody was shooting at my house, I can pretty much guarantee that my iMac would not start shooting out sparks, nor would steam start pouring in through the heat registers or the bathroom fan.

And don’t get me started on the “shields down to 58.3 per cent!” bullsh^t.

114. somethoughts - March 28, 2012

#113

Yes, I want to see people floating around on the bridge with the lights out and only the emergency red lights are on and the Red Alert Klaxxon going bonkers, the bridge flips 360, things are tilted, sideways, being fired upon and nothing you can do about it but enjoy the ride. Being boarded as the enemy teleports to the bridge and have a massive kung fu in space fight sequence with no gravity and epic Tarantino music blarring.

115. Red Dead Ryan - March 28, 2012

I didn’t mind seeing sparks flying, or steam (compressed air?) when ships got pounded on. It provided some danger, and drama even though it wasn’t realistic. On TOS and TNG, all you’d have is the camera shaking and the cast members shake themselves. That got a bit boring.

What I have a problem with though, is when debris falls from the ceiling, and you just know it couldn’t come from the ceiling. Like in “Generations”, after the saucer crash landed, there was a large I-beam that fell from the ceiling. But knowing the design of the ceiling, it couldn’t have come from there. Nor the walls.

#114.

Good idea!

I’d also like to see more people get sucked out into space after a bridge on another starship gets blown off by enemy fire during a space battle.

116. BlueThunder01 - March 28, 2012

Honestly, Star Trek-Nemesis was the NG version of Star Trek II-The Wrath Of Khan, with a little bit of Star Trek VI-The Undiscovered Country thrown into the mix.

By the time Nemesis was released, Star Trek was already going through a period of franchise fatigue. Fans had already had their fill of Star Trek, and Paramount had already taken one too many trips into the well. Even episodes of DS9 and Voyager were becoming recycled episodes of what had been written before.

Somehow, I don’t see TNG ever being rebooted anytime in the future.

117. Harry Ballz - March 28, 2012

115. Red Dead Ryan “I’d also like to see more people get sucked”

Boy, I sure am glad you finished that sentence!

118. Helen - April 4, 2012

Ugh…just NO to a reboot! I always thought they should have made the book “Q in Law” into a film! But now they wouldn’t have to recast Loxwana(sp) Troi. :( I liked all TNG movies! I didn’t find any of them boring except that we didn’t get to see much of the cast besides Picard and Data! And I still can’t believe that Deanna would get married without at least of MENTION of her mother! And where the heck was Dr. Beverly Crusher in all 3 films? Cause Crusher certainly didn’t have much screentime in any of the films and that’s a crying shame (to me) as she’s one of my favs.

Still think they should make one of the books with Q in it…as a major film. :)

119. Raven Antonia - May 30, 2012

I’m glad I’m not the only person who saw that “Loki” Tom Hiddleston, would make an awesome Data/Lore reboot.

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