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Orci: Star Trek Sequel Is Not Remake May 10, 2012

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Editorial,Orci/Kurtzman,Star Trek Into Darkness , trackback

The reports about the Star Trek sequel over the last couple of weeks have generated a lot of discussion across the web and here at TrekMovie.com. As he does from time to time, Bob dropped by the site today and made a comment about the chat, this time a short blurb, but with important implications. See more below, plus my thoughts on the latest debates. [NOTE: Article discusses potential spoilers]

 

Orci: Star Trek Sequel Not A Remake

Last week TrekMovie.com joined the growing chorus of other websites (AICN, Latino Review, Vulture, FirstShowing, and others) reporting sources saying Benedict Cumberbatch will be playing Khan. Some have taken these reports to say that if true, then the Star Trek sequel will be just like the original Star Trek episode "Space Seed," where Kirk and crew first encounter the genetic superman from the past, or possibly even a rehash of Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, when Khan seeks revenge for marooning him on a doomed planet.


Khan (Ricardo Montalban) and Kirk (William Shatner) in original series episode "Space Seed"

Today in response to these concerns, Star Trek co-writer/producer posted the following comment here at TrekMovie:

boborci:

No remakes. No rehashes.

And to add some more context to recent debates, I also think it helps to bring back a comment from Orci’s fellow producer Bryan Burk who spoke about the villain in the film and their decision (in general terms).

Bryan Burk (speaking to MTV in December): There are amazing villains throughout the Star Trek universe, as well as new villains as we did in the last film. There are a lot of directions we can go in the film and in this particular case we chose to do something that would be original and unique and different and again on paper I think we made the right choice.

So maybe TrekMovie and the other sites are all wrong and Khan is not in the film (and I admit this is entirely possible). I have also noted that reports of Khan are still officially rumors from Paramount’s point of view.

However, for the purpose of discussion, lets say the Khan reports are true, then how does that fit with what Orci and Burk are saying? It seems to me that the team are sending the message they have their own story (even if it has known characters). And just look at their often used example of Heath Ledger and the Joker for The Dark Knight. While using a well known character, director Christopher Nolan found a way to tell a unique story, which turned into a monster hit with great reviews.

My thoughts…

If you have seen me opine about this at cons over the last few years (it always comes up), I have consistently said that using a classic character does not mean that you are using the same story. If you just use your imagination, you can probably dream up a number of different ways an exiled genetically-enhanced leader from the Eugenics Wars can make headlines in JJ Abrams new Star Trek universe, and none of them have to look like “Space Seed.”

In fact, I have always found the debate kind of odd actually. With every new superhero movie there seems to be no question that they will use a classic villain. The new Superman movie has Zod, the next Batman movie has Bane (and Catwoman), the new Spider-man has The Lizard, and the list goes on. It seems to be a given that they will use classic villains, and yet with Star Trek this seems to be controversial for some. The irony of course is that the only Star Trek film that re-used a character for the villain was Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, which is still considered by most (including myself) to be the best film of the franchise.

In a way I think JJ Abrams obsession with secrecy just exacerbates the controversy. As noted with these other films, announcements on who the villains are usually comes with casting news, months before production. These other filmmakers don’t see how revealing a character is a big deal and know that it really doesn’t tell you anything about the story.

I agree, no one wants to see a remake or a rehash. But this team have always said they don’t want to be a cover band, they want to tell their own stories in the Star Trek universe (and they even made a new Star Trek universe for added flexibility). So for now, I take them at their word. They have a new story to tell and in the end that is all that matters. Whether it includes a known villain character or not, is really secondary.


Khan return for Star Trek II – and that worked out pretty well

Well that’s my two cents. What do you think? Sound off below.

Comments

1. dmduncan - May 10, 2012

Backpedaling, AP? Haha!

Just kidding, man. Nobody knows. We’re all just playing a game of trying to sample the flow of probabilities.

2. Jonfucius - May 10, 2012

Wow, I never thought of the re-use of villains in that context. And that just made me realize: didn’t DC just reboot its entire universe with The New 52? But we’ve seen Catwoman, The Penguin, and other classic DC heroes/villains in it.

I have faith in the “Supreme Court” that they can tell an original Khan story while staying true to some of the traits that made Khan such a great foil for Kirk.

3. FrancoMiranda - May 10, 2012

Interesting. Are my comments working…?

4. Ahmed - May 10, 2012

Bob, why not just release the synopsis, you will make everyone happy.
seriously, too much secrecy is not helping anyone.

5. Phil - May 10, 2012

It’s possible for these comic book based movies to use existing villians (and different actors who step into the roles) because the villians are also established – Joker/Zod, or whomever can escape their prisons to once again be a thorn in the side of the hero. Khan does not have that relationship with Kirk, we only have two episodes to even establish the relationship, Space Seed and TWOK, and both of them were adversiarial. Yeah, Khan can be a stand along character, a friend, ally, not an enhanced meglomanic, perhaps?. If all context is stripped away, then why call him Khan at all?

6. Michael DeSanto - May 10, 2012

Seems to me the problem with the re-use of Khan has to do more with the actor’s ethnicity than anything else. How many comments have we seen that say something along the lines of “why would they cast a pasty white Brit as a Sikh?”

7. Dee - lvs moon' surface - May 10, 2012

Really it doesn’t matter for me… I just want a great plot whatever the villain… the cast is awesome… so I’m waiting a great movie!

;-) :-)

8. Amish Electrician - May 10, 2012

Yes no Khan

9. Andrew - May 10, 2012

Given how good Khan was is Space Seed and Wrath of Khan, do we really not want to see what happens with him in this universe? I for one am excited to see a fresh take on Khan and to see how this new crew handles him.

10. Thorny - May 10, 2012

Well, if it is Khan, that nicely explains they haven’t announced the title yet. “Khan” is probably in the title!

11. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - May 10, 2012

Untill Bob Orci say’s there is No Khan then there is Khan in the movie. But. I know Bob Orci will blow us away with a great story. Right Bob Orci.

12. dmduncan - May 10, 2012

4. Ahmed – May 10, 2012

Bob, why not just release the synopsis, you will make everyone happy.

***

LOL!

13. James M - May 10, 2012

Who says they can not make a story about Khan and the Enterprise again? Maybe something happened before Khan was actually settled on Ceti Alpha. Somehow Khan remembered Chekov in the Wrath of Khan movie and yet we never saw Chekov and Khan together on the tv episode. They could also invent a story of Khan after he was settled on Ceti Alpha 5. Kirk believed Khan and his future wife and crew were sent to Ceti Alpha 6 which exploded. Kirk never knew they were actually sent to Ceti Alpha 5. That is why Kirk never checked on the progress of Khan because Ceti Alpha 6 had exploded. This caused damage to Ceti Alpha 5 and shifted its orbit. So many possibilities for a new story here.
I hope it is Khan we see in Star Trek 12 (2013) and not Gary Mitchell with the glowing eyes.

14. James M - May 10, 2012

I am with Thorny. Yes! Just the name “Khan” alone would have every middle-aged and senior STAR TREK fan bring forth the $12 to see the movie on the silver screen. I don’t need 3D for this movie.

15. Jack - May 10, 2012

Maybe the TOS Khan was full of crap and wasn’t Khan Singh at all, but his cousin Murray. There are myriad, non-creaky, slightly less ridiculous ways they could make Khan work, if they chose to. It could be complicated, and he could be Khan ish. Or they could get all Days of Our Lives and they/we/he don’t know he’s Khan. Or, whatever.

9. Yeah, me too. I was hoping for fresh, like I said, just because I was hoping for them to come up with some new Trek characters that would really become part of Trek. (the last movie that did this well was Trek II)… but I’d still be thrilled to see what they come up with, if Khan’s involved.

As long as they don’t count on the audience to suddenly realize, “whoa, it’s Khan!” and be amazed. It didn’t work with Sybok the laughing Vulcan (I think the audience was supposed to be amazed at that as well) and it won’t work now.

Put in easter eggs galore if you guys want, but don’t make the plot hinge on them (or bend to them).

16. Jack - May 10, 2012

3. Haven’t seen you on here in a while. Hope all’s swell.

17. Captain Karl - May 10, 2012

Technically, if we want to nitpick, by bringing the Khan character back onto the screen, it is rehashing…then again, the entire reboot is a rehash.

18. PeterW - May 10, 2012

I’m quite confident that if the villain is Khan, then it will be a Khan story we haven’t seen before. But you know how they could avoid this criticism? By going with a new villain! Or at least one that hasn’t already been redone!

I’m of the opinion that Captain Garth would be a great villain to reuse for the reboot series. It’d probably be an origin story for him, so that’s a big chunk of plot ready-made, but also an origin story we haven’t seen played out dozens of times, which is rare for Hollywood.

19. Trekker5 - May 10, 2012

I never thought they would remake Star Trek 2,I think 1. You just can’t do that!! 2. They have alot more going on for them to use what’s been done,reuseing the character is ok by me.

20. CJS - May 10, 2012

Why is Khan the default setting? I’m going to assume it is not Khan until Bob Orci (or J.J. Abrams) says it is.

If it is Khan, it will probably have no connection to the Ceti Alpha system. The settlement of Ceti Alpha was a result of the events of the episode Space Seed. If Khan and his followers are found and thawed under different circumstances then you have an entirely new story that is in no way a retelling of either Space Seed or TWOK.

21. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - May 10, 2012

Khannnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
One thing they might do is have the whole movie with No Khan and at the end of the movie the camra pans out to a different sector of Space and we see the S.S Botney Bay. Drifting in space and then a Klingon Ship Decloaks and then the end credit’s.

22. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - May 10, 2012

If they do Khan with the S.S Botney bay. Then they have to uses the exact same looking ship and clothes that Khan wore in Space Seed. Otherwise. Not Canon.

23. Jeyl - May 10, 2012

“No remakes. No rehashes.”

Except that we’re doing Kirk and the original crew in the original series time line and making many non-sutble references to their previous works.

Not saying you should retract your statement Bob. I KNOW you’re talking about storyline specifics here. But the overall product is for all intents and purposes a rehash of what’s come before. But I’ve accepted your rehash take of TOS, which is why I’m not bothered by the fact that the villain is going to be Khan. Maybe I’ll look at this new Trek film with a good sense of respect and enjoyment, but I’ll still be looking forward to the day when someone takes charge of Star Trek and says it doesn’t need Kirk, Spock or even the Enterprise to make great Star Trek moments that are iconic.

24. Jack - May 10, 2012

22. Canon schmitzanon.

25. Craiger - May 10, 2012

Ahmed, I don’t get it either. I mean like Anthony said we already know Zod and the Lizard are in the next Superman and Spiderman movies does that give away any spoilers for those movies? Not to sound mean but are they not confident in their villain and that is why their is all the secrecy?

26. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - May 10, 2012

#24. Are you the same Jack that was in. Wolf in the Fold.

27. Phil - May 10, 2012

The story arc for the origonal Khan was really short – exiled, frozen, thawed, exiled again, escaped, died. Considering the next movie is about Kirk and crew, I really don’t know where people keep coming up with the idea that Khan, the character, has this wealth of background that needs to be explored. The details may vary, but the story has to end well for Kirk and bad for Khan. Which makes this look like a hybred of SS/TWOK.

28. Hat Rick - May 10, 2012

Woohoo! Not a remake!

But having Khan in the film doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s a remake.

Woohoo! Not a rehash!

But having Khan in the film doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s a rehash.

Thus and so, as AP says

-remake -rehash [not equal sign] -Khan

Q.E.D.

29. Vultan - May 10, 2012

I find if odd that Trek keeps being compared to comic books. Wasn’t it TV’s answer to “Forbidden Planet”?

30. Jack - May 10, 2012

26. I can barely send email, let alone possess a ship’s computer and throw down psychedelic graphics.

31. Hat Rick - May 10, 2012

Yeah, but comic books are nothing to sneeze at these days, Vultan.

Comic book heroes are big money. Look at that “Avengers” movie — comic book heroes, all.

32. Geodesic - May 10, 2012

Not a rehash. Not a remake. But is it a REMASH?

33. Hat Rick - May 10, 2012

And yes, I do realize that Thor was a Norse god before he was a comic book. But before the comics, he was known only to geeks who studied the Classics and/or Folklore and Mythology. And the occasional nongeek, I don’t rule that out.

34. Vultan - May 10, 2012

#31

Yeah, and that’s the first thing I worry about when I see a movie: will the studio see a return on their investment? Priorities, man… priorities….

35. Hat Rick - May 10, 2012

32, only if Alan Alda is in it.

Any such rumors?

36. Hat Rick - May 10, 2012

34, no money, no honey, babe. If Trek tanks, there goes the future of the franchise.

You think fanbased revitalizations of three-season failures (TOS) grow on trees? ;-)

37. SherlockFangirl - May 10, 2012

I think it’s different for comic book movies and their choice of villains. A Batman (be he animated or live action) will always have to go up against the Joker. Henry Cavill’s Superman will have to do battle with Lex Luthor in a sequel to “Man of Steel”. Just by the inclusion of OsCorp in the new reboot for “The Amazing Spider-Man”, is it safe to assume that the Andrew Garfield Spider-Man will at the very least encounter Norman Osborn in a future sequel? Comic book movies HAVE to recast these iconic supervillian roles. If they didn’t, we’d just be stuck with idiots like Stilt Man, Boomerang and Hypno-Hustler for “The Amazing Spider-Man”.

I think Data said something once to Picard that only 9% of the Milky Way had been charted by the 2360s. Or maybe he was just talking about the Alpha Quadrant… Anyway, what about that other 91% that remains undiscovered? What unknown villainous characters lay out there? Not surprisingly, I love Benedict Cumberbatch, but there will be some segments of fandom and the media who will simply say that he’s good (or crap) and that he’s no Ricardo Montalban. It’s inevitable. Sure, it’s a challenge for him to sick his teeth into those Moons of Nibia, Antares Maelstrom and perdition’s flame, but I’d much rather see him tackle a whole new creation.

38. VZX - May 10, 2012

Yeah, I’m pretty sure it’s Khan for the following reasons:
–Spy pics show Cumby’s character is stronger than Spock and resists nerve pinch. This hints at a genetically altered superman.
–The fact that JJ will not release the character’s names might mean that the names will give away a bit of the plot. Sure, some of the other characters are original creations, but JJ can’t give away some names and not others. So, one of them is probably an old-school character. And what character name would give away a bit of the plot more than any other? Khan.
–The other actors that were considered for this plot were mostly of Hispanic descent. But the white-ness of Cumby throws a curve ball.
–Khan IS the most famous villain of Star Trek. JJ likes to use what is most familiar to the general public.
–Last, many fansites stated that Cumby is Khan. Yeah, it could be a rumor, but the fact so many posted this info might mean it’s most likely true.

39. Vultan - May 10, 2012

#36

“Franchise.” Yeah. Got it.
And like McDonalds, they’re all starting to look the same.

40. Geodesic - May 10, 2012

@36 I’m in agreement. I no longer expect Star Trek movies to be like Star Trek episodes. But I’m hoping that there is a mindblowing Trek series eventually.

41. MikeTen - May 10, 2012

My guess is the Klingons find Khan and he goes on a rampage against Earth and the Federation.

Or it’s a twist and Khan didn’t survive and one of his crewmembers is the main adversary.

Or none of the above. Look at Cloverfield and Super 8, nobody really knew what was going on in those movies until they were released.

42. Mantastic - May 10, 2012

Here’s the thing. With the new Star Trek and the alternate timeline, everything that happens after the alternate timeline was created can be (and appears to be) different from the prime universe. However, everything before the timelines diverged is the same and unchanged since there was only one timeline.

So, barring the movie necessity of recasting the role, how will this make Khan any different in a way that makes sense in terms of canon storyline?

With Nolan’s Batmans (and much like any other comic book movie series), they exist completely independent from the other Batman movies, serials, and shows. There’s no story based way (or otherwise) that Nolan’s Joker would be intertwined with Keaton’s Batman.

Perhaps I’m overthinking it, but from a canon storytelling standpoint, the comparison of the Joker from Nolan’s Batman and (assumed) Khan from this new movie doesn’t hold water. From a movie making standpoint yes, but I get a feeling there will be plenty of nerd rage if this ends up being true.

All things said, I’m still sure it’ll be a good movie.

43. Red Dead Ryan - May 10, 2012

Yep, it’s going to be Khan. Better get used to it folks!

The fact that they originally were going after Hispanic actors is one piece of evidence. Another is the supreme court’s obsession with the character. Every time they talked Trek, they mentioned Khan. The secrecy surrounding the film is so high, its obvious that they are trying to hide something. Recently, Benedict Cumberbatch flinched at the mention of Khan. They also want a villain that can draw in a bigger audience.

And all the reasons that VZX stated above.

44. SherlockFangirl - May 10, 2012

Jesus Christ, there will be hell to pay in some corners if the Botany Bay doesn’t look EXACTLY like it did in 1967…

*snickers*

45. Captain Ransom - May 10, 2012

remake or original, it doesn’t matter. what a horrible insult to star trek 2, one of the greatest sci fi movies of all time. it’s no different than remaking the original star wars. any true trek fans know this is going to be like claws on a chaulkboard watching abrams and these gen y actors completely ruin the legend of khan.

just who the hell is this cumberbatch guy? never heard of him. what an insult to cast him as khan. who deemed him worthy of playing one of film history’s greatest villians? a no name. all the great lines we heard in star trek two, including kirk’s eternal khaaaaan scream will never be topped. who would even think of trying. i would like to see pine deliver such a performance.

46. Hat Rick - May 10, 2012

39, how so? How can we prejudge a sequel based on rumors that haven’t even been confirmed yet?

Assuming, without conceding, that it’s Khan again, just what about this fact makes Trek so uninteresting?

Was Harry Mudd less interesting the second time around?

And what about the idea of having a Khan-based trilogy of sorts — one that crosses universes (Trek Prime and NuTrek)? Khan would die (in TWOK), then he’s alive (in Trek ’13), and then he would die again (in some future Trek). It would be the obverse of the TWOK-TSFS-TVH Trilogy that everyone loves so.

Hey, someone could even write a dissertation about that! “Death, Life, and Death Again: Semiotic Consequences of the Hyperextended Metaphor in a Post-Universal Age — A Literary Exegesis of a Popular Cinematic Experiment in the Postmodern.”

I’ve written the title. Now let some lucky grad student write it.

Soon to be a major exhibit at LACMA….

47. Jack - May 10, 2012

27. “I really don’t know where people keep coming up with the idea that Khan, the character, has this wealth of background that needs to be explored.”

Me neither. I sure hope it’s not a Khan origin story. I don’t need flashbacks showing Khan infiltrating Nirvana in the early 90s. I wonder if the character alone would have been as compelling if someone else (say any other male Trek guest star) had played him back then. Tough to say.

329. Agreed. Nothing against comic books. But, yeah, Khan ain’t the Joker. Or Dr. Claw. I think you raise a good point — comic-like bad-guy villains don’t work well with Trek. Even in the TOS episodes with protaganists, the conflict was based on a problem/circumstances (not just bad guy out to destroy everything), or there was some flaw to the bad guy that was the point of the story. It wasn’t black/white, good/evil — and, heck, some episodes even played with those good guy/bad guy conventions, like Errand of Mercy. Almost all the movies tended to simplify this and turn it into good guy/bad guy, because, well, that’s the big way movies tend to work. The point of TWOK wasn’t that Khan was out for revenge (Kirk has no big speech where he laments making the wrong decision about Khan 15 years before, and he makes no speeches to convince Khan of the errors of his ways — he barely talks about the guy, or to him… nobody does, apart from “hey, Khan’s attacking” etc.). it was about, among other things, dealing with mortality and the consequences of making choices (or not making them). Khan is almost just a plot device. It was amazing that the episode left that opening and it gave the movie a chance to work through all that stuff without making the villain seem contrived (Hey, Nero). We probably learned as much about Nero through dialogue as we did Khan — but Khan had the virtue of a backstory, even if you hadn’t seen it.

48. Bucky - May 10, 2012

I’m fine with them using Khan again, I’m just a mite perplexed they’d decide to go back to that. It is a big galaxy & all & there are quite a lot of types of stories you can tell in the Star Trek universe aside from “crew confronts genocidal maniac X”. Which we’ve basically seen from Star Trek aside from the first movie & the fourth movie. (If the baddies in ST6 fall under that category is a bit of a squeak but you can’t deny that General Chang is more than a bit Khan-ish)

49. Captain Ransom - May 10, 2012

#13: don’t see how there is any possibility of a khan story. they found his ship in space seed, cast him out to seti alpha 6 by the end, found him again in star trek 2 on accident on seti alpha 5, he was dead by the end of the movie. i don’t see any room for a khan story in there. might as well just remake star wars where vader doesn’t die, blah blah blah. this is completely asinine.

50. Hat Rick - May 10, 2012

40, if the Klingons are in it, as rumored, it could be very mindblowing.

Anyway, I realize I’m starting to sound like an amateur cheerleader for Trek ’13.

But, aw, hell — what’s wrong with that?!

51. Vultan - May 10, 2012

#46

Well put. I wonder if “Forbidden Planet” had become a film series—(in an alternate universe!)—now would we be wondering why Denzel Washington is rumored to play Dr. Morbius… or a Krell Id Monster. ;)

52. DeShonn Steinblatt - May 10, 2012

Only mine and Bob Orci’s definition of rehash is important now ;-)

and, by that definition, it will not be a rehash.

53. Captain Ransom - May 10, 2012

#45:

“And what about the idea of having a Khan-based trilogy of sorts — one that crosses universes (Trek Prime and NuTrek)? Khan would die (in TWOK), then he’s alive (in Trek ‘13), and then he would die again (in some future Trek).”

probably the dumbest thing i’ve ever heard. crossing universes? there is only one trek universe and jj abram’s film is not part of it.

54. Hat Rick - May 10, 2012

51, maybe WE’RE the ones in the alternate universe. In the real one, Forbidden Planet did become a film series, and Leslie Nielsen’s brother, Deputy Canadian Prime Minister Erik Neilsen in our universe, starred in the Airplane movies.

No word, however, on the fate of Amelia Earhart* — still missing in both universes….

[*Fun For All: Spot the Trek connection!]

55. Hat Rick - May 10, 2012

53 — only “probably”? Then I guess there’s hope after all!

56. Victor Hugo - May 10, 2012

As much as i love coming in here, i want to watch the new Star Trek movie without knowing anything at all! :)

So, folks, take it easy on spoilers in the titles, ok?

57. LizardGirl - May 10, 2012

Bravo! Bravo! This article is spot on. Why complain about the inevitable? You’re going to see characters from TOS, why not the villains? Khan is the most noteworthy villain in TOS.

@17 Jack: Technically, it’s not a rehash. The American Collage Dictionary (4th ed.) says this: rehash– to bring forth again in another form without significant alteration.

We as fans can’t say for sure if this is the case but since Bob Orci says “No remakes, no rehashes”, we can assume that they’re going to do something radically different.

All of the main characters are from established Trek canon, there’s no debate about that. This would include Khan–so yeah, there shouldn’t be so much outrage about that if it’s true. Someone made the point about comic book characters. You can probably find 20 different ways Spider-Man has been done in comics and yet the general audience is completely cool with seeing him on screen 4th time around, done completely different. So….why so serious?

Plot is key. That will rule out the rehash speculations– ’cause if it’s a unique story, then it wouldn’t be a reusing of old material, despite the presence of established characters (i.e. the using of Kirk and Spock in ST2009 while creating a storyline unique to that franchise).

It is intriguing though. Khan is so iconic that it’s hard to see him in another light. I’ve tried myself and failed. I am utterly curious about this but I’m not going to condemn it because it has an iconic character, nor am I going to call it a rehash, when one of the people who wrote the dang movie says it’s not.

58. Anthony Pascale - May 10, 2012

HUGO

This site doesn’t put spoilers on the front page or in headlines. Not sure how “not a remake” is a spoiler

59. AJ - May 10, 2012

Anthony:

I appreciate, finally, some good editorial comment from your site. Like the ‘old days.’

What the bean-counters need to ask themselves, as the business-cycle for this film is long underway, is how do the following actually contribute to the film’s bottom line?:

1. No released title (for a wrapped film)
2. Official ‘anger’ at unauthorized photos leading to free well-received publicity
3. No cast photos/official set photos/teasers
4. Endless arguments in fandom over potentially erroneous villain info
5. Delays: Batting 2 for 2.

The answer is: only negatively.

This leads Paramount to have to dig itself out from a comedy of errors which has been shown by ‘Avengers’ to be the exact opposite of how to market a film.

And at the end of the day, is the story just going to be so phenomenal that we all have to shield our eyes until next Summer? Are they bringing back Edith Keeler, Khan, Kor, Kang and Eminiar VII all in one film? I doubt it.

With all due credit to Bob Orci for being a great contributor and receiver of ideas on this site, I still feel it’s time to open up the information superhighway and let us know what we’re in for.

International sales, which has way surpassed the 50%-of-total mark for films of this type. really need a big push for the next year to achieve that number. Europe and Asia don’t give a crap about whether or not it’s Khan or Janice Lester. And, in the meantime, the memory of the franchise there is fading at best.

Time to get it together.

60. Max - May 10, 2012

Lets see what direction they take with Khan Noonien Soran.

61. thandrahan - May 10, 2012

Gary Seven was immune to the Vulcan nerve pinch. In the back of my mind, i have wondered if Cumberbatch is playing him. He more resembles Robert Lansing than Montalban.

62. Tim Sheehy - May 10, 2012

@Anthony No spoilers in titles — that’s why I love you, bro.

63. danielcraigsmywookiebitchnow - May 10, 2012

60 cumberbatch would be a better fit as a young Dr. Soran than as Khan anyways. As I said before Cumberbatch is 12 years younger than Montalban was when he played Khan in space seed, and when you compare pictures or video of the two he look significantly younger than Montalban. Khan was turned into a Khansicle and launched into space in the mid 90s long long long before the time line was changed, so it would be a big continuity flaw for someone that much younger to be playing Khan.

64. Victor Hugo - May 10, 2012

Anthony Pascale, oh no, i didn´t suggested such a thing! I know there´s no spoilers in titles, just wanted to convey that it´ll be difficult to resist spoilers!

65. TrekMadeMeWonder - May 10, 2012

Man, that read like a post, not an news article.

I am warm to the idea of Kirk and co being directed by Spock Prime to carry out this Khan task as a first mission.

As Illogical as it sounds, trying to neutralize the Khan factor first would be an important goal for both Spocks, Or even Kirk too. He did mind-meld with the original Spock.

I am as confused by all the secrecy. Is there really a new Trek on the way?

66. John from Cincinnati - May 10, 2012

For people to complain about original villains in the new movie is ridiculous. What they are really doing is insulting the writers. They’re saying the writers aren’t good enough to use an original villain in a new way.

67. Victor Hugo - May 10, 2012

65. the comic strip “Ensign Sue Must die” has shown an interesting (and logical) premise, that young Spock consults older Spock for advice on the monitor.
That “took you long enough” scene was hilarious. I know that Nimoy keeps saying he´s retired and all, but it would be great to see him on a monitor screen.

68. danielcraigsmywookiebitchnow - May 10, 2012

Just because you give a character a new spin and tell a completely different story then what was seen the first time around doesnt change the fact that reusing that character would be rehashing the character.
If the writers value the history of whats come before, then Khans origins and his motives and backstory are the same its the same character just in a different setting and enviorment. since its been established that everything that took place prior to Nero destroying the Nerada still occured in the altertnate universe. Hence why people are saying reuseing khan is rehashing him.

unless they perhaps explain that Khan ending up on the botany bay or the eugincis wars in general changed from say when Kirk and crew went back to the 20th century and rescued George and Gracie and also brought along Gillian for the ride to the 23rd century. lol

69. LizardGirl - May 10, 2012

In the very small chance that Benedict may come across this site and read this particular thread I’d like to say…

You are awesomely talented and very handsome.
You take your career seriously.
I am a fan of your work.

I believe you were chosen for this part because of your ability to act and I look forward to seeing you on screen. Oh and welcome to the family!

70. Hat Rick - May 10, 2012

In all seriousness, there are a variety of perspectives on the question of what this sequel should be about.

I’m currently in the middle of watching the IMAX film, “Magnificent Desolation: Walking on the Moon.” I’m at the part — the beginning — in which young people are shown to have little or no knowledge of the profundity of the Apollo program and the magnitude of our achievement in landing on the Moon. I stopped the DVD right there, because I became a bit depressed at the notion that we’ve lost the sense of wonder that the 1960’s vision of space conveyed.

I’m old enough to be part of the generation that witnessed the television broadcasts of our landing on the Moon in 1969. The magic of the Apollo era was with me then, and it has never really left me since.

Many of us are disappointed with how reality has betrayed the vision of space travel so many of us had in the 1960’s.

In a way, I think that Trek has been a kind of displacement of that vision, in more than one sense. It has been a substitute for the reality that turned out so poorly — with our going in literal circles around the Earth, and now with the loss of the Shuttle program.

Thus, I, too, have high expectations of Trek, and I honestly don’t want to think that it could have its shortcomings. As a substitute for the real thing, the displaced vision that Trek represents cannot possibly be allowed to fail.

To cite a credo from the days of Apollo: Failure is not an option.

And so this is some of the context, I feel, pertaining to the continued and abiding interest in Trek and all matters relating to the sequel.

But just as the space program now evokes disunity rather than shared vision, it turns out that Trek no longer inspires a universal belief in progress toward a single goal. Infinite diversity in infinite combinations no longer seems to invoke action; it invokes debate.

So where do we go from here?

I’m not sure.

But we do know one thing: And so it goes, as ever it has been, since the passing of the Golden Age. Apparently. Apparently.

71. Red Dead Ryan - May 10, 2012

#65.

Both “The Final Frontier” and “Insurrection” used “original” villains, i.e Sybok and his henchmen, and the So’na, all of which did not keep those movies from sucking ass big time. In fact, those villains weren’t all that good.

TWOK, FC, and 09 featured “recycled” villains. Khan, Borg, Romulans. Those movies are my favorite of the bunch. TSFS too, which brought back the Klingons.

72. danielcraigsmywookiebitchnow - May 10, 2012

65 no we are saying we want to see them create a original and unique villian that can stand along side a iconic classic villian that has come before.

Its much more dificult to create an original character than it is to rework a classic character.

73. danielcraigsmywookiebitchnow - May 10, 2012

70 exactly its much harder to create an original villian than it is to rework a classic one.
However Sybok was NOT a villian he was misguided his heart was in the right place, the Villian of Star Trek V was the GOD creature , and the Klingon captain to a lesser extent.

74. MJ - May 10, 2012

It is kind of sad that poor Anthony has to headline a story like this to convince all the “Einsteins” here what a number of us realized awhile back — i.e. of course they are not going to remake or rehash the same story…Duh…are you kidding me, people?

But then again, this is largely the same crowd who was in denial all along about Khan being the villan (with some today still holding on to that ridiculous notion), so I can’t say I am really all that surprised.

It is tough being right all the time, but I realize now that it is a cross that I must bear as we move towards the sequel; espeically given all the illogical posts here week after week and month after month.

75. danielcraigsmywookiebitchnow - May 10, 2012

70 70 70 (shaking my head) your argument is leaky at best.
FC didnt recycle its main villian, The Borg QUEEN was an ORIGINAL character, Star Trek XI didnt recycle its main vilian NERO was an(wait for it)………. ORIGINAL character.

76. Justin Olson - May 10, 2012

#63

“Khan was turned into a Khansicle and launched into space in the mid 90s long long long before the time line was changed, so it would be a big continuity flaw for someone that much younger [Cumberbatch] to be playing Khan.”

Maybe this new movie will establish that the Klingons stumbled upon the Botany Bay just after Nero arrives in the past and that all aboard are dead (due to an asteroid collision let’s say)… but genetic samples are preserved and they grow one of the samples into a clone of Khan who would then be the same age as Kirk.

Or perhaps they combine the samples into a meta genome, creating an augment that is even more intelligent and powerful than the Khan from the prime universe?

77. MJ - May 10, 2012

BTW, using Sybok as and example of why an “original” villian should be developed proves exactly the opposite case; i.e. it illustrates how that approach can utterly backfire.

78. MJ - May 10, 2012

@63 ““Khan was turned into a Khansicle and launched into space in the mid 90s long long long before the time line was changed, so it would be a big continuity flaw for someone that much younger [Cumberbatch] to be playing Khan.”

Read your post here again dude — do you realize that you are complaining abou continuity flaws with Khan being too young in the same sentence that you say Khan left earth in the 1990’s?

“Khan left earth in the 1990’s “– now there is a much more serious continuity flaw in the Khan story me thinks. LOL

79. Jello cutter - May 10, 2012

No Khan, just get over it and moove on. I seem to remember Star Trek being based in the future with new ideas and new ways of approaching new experiences. If you desperate for Khan stay in your besement and stagnate in the past. There are plenty of new stories to be told let them be told. Its a new audience now, be welcoming to them and what they bring. Whose up for some IDIC.

80. samrock83 - May 10, 2012

Khan is misinformation. It wouldn’t surprise me if the filmmmakers leaked that just to throw people off and get everyone fired up.

81. boborci - May 10, 2012

59. Ill tell you what you are in for… A face melting mind blowing huge effing star trek. Biggest one EVER!

82. danielcraigsmywookiebitchnow - May 10, 2012

43, Did you see him flich personally? No your going on what Geoff from the L.A. times Hero Complex claims. And if you have ever been to one of this Q&A’s he has moderated you would know he often misreads or misinterprets the body language or tone in voice of the people whom he is interviewing.
the fact that he didnt flinch or skip a beat when that MTV new reporter scremed khan in his face in a recent interview is counter to what Geoff is trying to claim. and for his Hero Complex interview it wasnt a shocker to him that people would ask because they have been asking ever since the rumors started really flying online.

83. boborci - May 10, 2012

You’re welcome.

84. AJ - May 10, 2012

65/71 et al

Who would’ve thought, back in ’82, they’d bring back Khan? “Space Seed” was a classic ‘bottle-show’ which happened to feature the wonderful Ricardo Montalban. That and 25 cents got you on the subway in 1967.

In 1982, he was the lead on the LOST precursor “Fantasy Island” and was such an unlikely from-left-field protagonist that Bennett and Meyer probably slapped each other silly when the final script was done. The rest is history.

Since then, can we call Shinzon an ‘original’ villain? Nero? The most original film villain we’ve had is the whale probe in STIV, with STVI taking a second for its sympathetic view towards conservativism as the unfortunate villain in the faces of Valeris, Chang et al. No evil personified by one person.

85. Jerk - May 10, 2012

Using Khan is a rehash, period. Maybe not a remake, but a rehash. He will be “super”-human. He will be power hungry. We have seen that twice now. Once it was pure megalomania. Once it was almost actually sympathetic. But any variation on these central characteristics is a rehash. Comic book films can rehash freely because that’s what comic books are…endless rehashing of rogues galleries. That is what we expect from them, and good writers can often do it spectacularly. But we expect different from Trek, which has always TRIED (and in my opinion, more often than not succeeded) to give us a new story grounded in science fiction or philosophy every outing. STII was itself a rehash, but it reinvented the atmosphere enough and for once actually gave some realistic and gripping development to formerly two dimensional TOS characters such that it was hugely successful in doing so. But it was still a Khan rehash. At the end of the day, Khan was never a very interesting character. He gives a shoot-from-the-hip captain like Kirk someone to punch and yell at dramatically for an hour or so, which to me is Star Trek at its least imaginative.

Rehashing in and of itself is not a bad thing, but for God’s sake, find someone more interesting in the canon who hasn’t had their chance to be reinvented cinematically a shot…Khan had his fifteen minutes and we get the whole perils of genetic engineering thing already, enough is enough.

But JJTrek is an action universe full of action heroes and action villains, where plots require phaser blasts, explosions, swordfights, punching, and sex to entertain, so let us not act in the least surprised that muscley-armed Khan would occur to them as a go-to sequel star.

Basically, Trek has become a comic book. So let us alter our expectations. But then I think I find what Marvel and Nolan are doing far more interesting.

86. LizardGirl - May 10, 2012

If they say it’s not a rehash, then it’s not a rehash. No theories, no conspiracies, no complications. There is nothing new under the sun. If you want to start nitpicking then EVERYTHING is a rehash of something–not just movies.

The word rehash evokes a negative connotation. Seeing as the movie is still a year off who can know for sure–besides those who put their time, effort, sweat, energy and resources into it? Bob said point blank “no rehashes”.

It’s been 30 years since Khan’s been in a movie and over 45 years since he’s been on television. Safe to say it’s not too soon to put him on the big screen again, but in a different context.

87. danielcraigsmywookiebitchnow - May 10, 2012

77 how so? The Botany Bay left earth in the 90s
when his body was frozen he looked like a man in his 40s (montalbans age when he filmed space seed) so since that took place far far earlier than the change in the timeline when he discovered he would still look like a man in his 40s when he is defrosted, he wouldnt look like a man in his mid 30s/

88. Jack - May 10, 2012

80. Hey, no spoilers here!

Kidding.

Wait, are you saying Cumberbatch is playing the Ark of the Covenant?

89. AJ - May 10, 2012

80:

Bob: Are you ‘marketing’ Star Trek 12?

90. Jonboc - May 10, 2012

I want to see Khan and I want Nimoy back as Spock….hell, I want Shatner in a surprise cameo…and I hope it all comes to see the light of day…but I can’t help but think how sweet it would be if all this speculation were some form of misdirection brought about solely by the media and fan’s interpretation of events…and the deafening silence from JJ’s camp. Clearly JJ loves for the audience to be surprised and in the dark, letting things unfold for the first time in the darkened theater…how ironic it would be if the media and fans, in their never ending search for spoilers, ended up steering public opinion towards that course of misdirection that JJ so longs for.

91. LizardGirl - May 10, 2012

My last comment was directed at 67. Forgot to add that.

92. danielcraigsmywookiebitchnow - May 10, 2012

76 sybok was not the villain of star trek v, the God Creature was, Sybock was merely misguided and thought he was helping people, he wasnt setting out to cause destruction and chaos or death.

93. Red Dead Ryan - May 10, 2012

#72 and 74.

Sybok was a villain. I agree he was misguided, not evil. But he did hijack the Enterprise and put it and the crew in danger. A villain doesn’t have to be evil. He/she just has to provide adversity for the heroes to overcome.

Kruge and the Klingons in TSFS might have been new as characters, but arguably, were just a continuation of those we had seen in TOS. Bloodthirsty, and cunning.

The Borg were recycled. The Queen was new. But the actual race, the collective, originated on the series. Maybe it wasn’t an entirely recycled villain, but it wasn’t totally original either. Remember, the Borg act as a collective. With the Queen guiding/controlling them.

Nero and each individual Romulan we saw in the last movie might have been original, but the race wasn’t. Nero and co.were villains, and thus, that is why I called them Romulans. Because they are Romulans. Just different Romulans who, btw, were out for revenge. Just like Khan, and Shinzon before them who weren’t Romulans.

94. boborci - May 10, 2012

84. You know nothing.

95. Captain Ransom - May 10, 2012

#63:

the timeline was not ‘changed’. there is only one ‘timeline’ and one star trek universe and then there is the movie star trek xi which has nothing to do with any prior existing star trek. whatever abrams is doing has nothing to do with any star trek canon. like scotty beaming admiral archer’s dog into space – had no idea archer would even still be alive in kirk’s time period. what a collosal $#@$@# up.

96. Hat Rick - May 10, 2012

So, having said all that, I wonder if this sequel will be a face melting mind blowing huge effing star trek — the biggest one EVER?

Oops — I just read Bob’s post. Never mind. It will.

;-)

97. Tiberius Kirk - May 10, 2012

@boborci #80

Can’t wait!

98. boborci - May 10, 2012

94. You know nothing.

99. Captain Ransom - May 10, 2012

why can’t they do something with the gorn or the doomsday machine? how awesome would that be. khan would be pointless since you can’t improve perfection. any new portrayal of him is just a complete insult to the awesomeness of star trek 2. why not just remake star wars and cast michael cera as vader. i guess star wars fans are much more purists than trekkies.

100. Tom@tom.web - May 10, 2012

The question is…. Will they claim that the Eugenics Wars was in the 1990s?

101. Red Dead Ryan - May 10, 2012

The God Creature was a villain too, sure, but it was only in the movie for like five minutes near the end. Sybok was the main villain.

102. boborci - May 10, 2012

88. No. Just telling it like it is.

103. Red Dead Ryan - May 10, 2012

#93.

Bob, don’t worry about him. He’s just being a “Jerk”. :-)

104. Harry Ballz - May 10, 2012

Let’s see……they reset the galaxy, thereby “cleaning the slate” and allowing themselves the freedom to tell ANY story.

And with all that wide-open liberty and scope, they elect to bring back a villain that has already been done.

Obviously it won’t be a rehash of Space Seed or TWOK, but I don’t care if, in this universe, the Klingons find the Botany Bay first, enlist Khan’s help, he ends up being a good guy this time around and, come the climax of the film, he rides off into the sunset wearing a tutu…..IT’S STILL GOING BACK TO THE WELL, ONE THAT HAD BEEN COVERED OVER AND BURIED WITH A NEW FRESH WELL TAKING IT’S PLACE!

(yawn)

Let me put it another way…..the whole fresh universe to pick from and they focus on this one character, someone we’ve already seen before?

105. danielcraigsmywookiebitchnow - May 10, 2012

I just am trying to wrap my brain around why same people just cant accept that we have a right to be disapointed if they are indeed reusing a character, instead of creating a new character. I loved Star Trek XI, and that in large part was due to the original story written by Orci and Kurtzman, that respected the 40 plus years of continuity that came before it. They didnt was it away or pretend it didnt happen, they embraced it with getting Nimoy to play spock from the a period that took place some time after nemesis. I really enjoyed the orginal villian they created in Nero and was really looking forward to seeing what new Villian or situation they could create for Kirk and crew to deal with next.

let me reiterate i have no doubt in my mind I will LOVE star Trek XII, but I can choose to be slightly disapointed in reusinng khan.

My opinon is just as valid as yours is MJ or Red Dead Ryan.

And unless anthony has instituted some policy that we are not allowed to express that we are disapointed if it is Khan or that we hope that misinformation is indeed being spread about the actual villian we will see then everyone has a right to say whats on their mind of course as long as its not in a rude or mean way.

106. Sean - May 10, 2012

Klingons find khan not Kirk and Kirk goes off to get khan from the Kilgore to prevent him from helping make super Klingons to wage a war on the federation. What else could it be if it’s not a remake of space seed or twok

107. Hat Rick - May 10, 2012

98, why would Star Wars fans be considered purists when every single one of the prequel-sequels involved the fates of the primary villains in its original trilogy?

Let’s think about this. Was Vader a major villain in Episode IV? Yes. Was Vader the villain in Episodes I, II, and III? Yes, since Anakin Skywalker is to become Vader. Was the Emperor the even bigger villain in Episode IV? Yes. Was Senator (later Chancellor) Palpatine that self-same even bigger villain in Episodes I, II, and III? Yes, since we know that Palpatine had planned to become, and did become, the Emperor, all along.

So — what purism is being spoken of here?

108. Trekboi - May 10, 2012

really?
You don’t understand why we don’t want them to just re-use the characters again & again like batman- because STAR TREK was supposed to be exploring the strange new worlds & new civilisations.

It’s fun to do it in the ongoing comics but thats different

109. Red Dead Ryan - May 10, 2012

#104.

Nero was only a partially original villain. And they’ve already recycled Kirk, Spock, McCoy, etc.

Nero was out for revenge. And blowing up planets with his ship that was also a superweapon. Shinzon, while not out for true revenge, lashed out at humans in anger and his ship was also a superweapon, but he was stopped before he could destroy Earth.

I don’t know how you can say you enjoyed Nero but at the same time be disappointed if the villain for the next movie is Khan. Especially if the sequel is NOT going to be a remake of “Space Seed” and that Khan won’t be out for revenge as he hasn’t been punished by Kirk yet.

110. MJ - May 10, 2012

Most of you couldn’t read Orci’s clues here if they bit you in the ass and called you papa! This is the 2nd time Orci has thrown us the bone of mentioning “face melting.’. Translation — Khan will have an altered apperance in th movie either through deliberate action of his oww or to an external event.

Duh!

I was one of the few who deciphered Orci’s Khan clue late last year.

111. danielcraigsmywookiebitchnow - May 10, 2012

107 exactly how many species and civilizations were mentioned on trek over the years that never have been seen or more fully explored beyond a quick glance in the background.

112. Geodesic - May 10, 2012

I’m looking forward to the trailer. Speculation is futile.

113. "Check the Circuit!" - May 10, 2012

The secrecy works. It keeps people talking and building interest.

When Bob Orci and team announced the new comic book series, they said there would be hints about the new movie in it. Or how the story of the movie is structured. If you’ve been reading the comic, you know the story has a familiar beginning, then can suddenly go off in a new, unexpected direction. (The most extreme example being the new take on Operation:Annihilate.)

My guess at this point, the Enterprise discovers the Botany Bay adrift in space, they investigate and revive the survivors….and then takes off in a completely different vector.

114. Derf - May 10, 2012

I think we need to get #YouKnowNothing trending :)

115. danielcraigsmywookiebitchnow - May 10, 2012

Nero and shinzon are not the same characters though are they red dead?

Nero was a miner who was driven to madness and revenge because he lost his wife due to the destruction of Romulus, which he blamed on SPOCK,

Shinzon on the other hand first of all wasn’t even a romulan he was clone of picard created by the romulans and his motivation and reasonings were not anyway related or had similarities to Neros

nice try though

116. MJ - May 10, 2012

@113 Yuvo, hey Commendant

117. Hat Trick - May 10, 2012

113, it would be a good counterpart to the #IKnowNothing tag I’m thinking of starting. German accent* optional.

[*Fun For All: Spot the Hogan's Heroes connection!]

118. Sebastian S. - May 10, 2012

I have to (respectfully) disagree with the above articles’ assertion that having Khan is no different than a superhero movie having an established villain from it’s lore of comic books. THAT’S precisely the trouble with lumping Star Trek in with the other ‘summer blockbuster’ movie thinking. Star Trek is not just about shoehorning in ‘iconic villains’ and ‘stopping the bad guys’ from taking over Gotham Cit–er, the galaxy.

Star Trek has had those kinds of stories before, yes, but look at the history of the movies; only ONE has used a specific villain from the TV series and that was 30 years ago (and now we’re using him again). The rest have all been NEW adversaries; or in the case of TMP or TVH, no real villain at all. I’ve always kind of believed (or perhaps wanted to believe) that ST was somehow a little different than the current crop of ‘blockbuster’ superhero movies that depended (or is it cannibalized?) their own mythologies just for market value and recognition. Perhaps I’m wrong on that one…

That being said, I am greatly relieved to hear that the story will NOT be a rehash of “Space Seed” (as I’ve stated before, I don’t believe that episode was TOS’ finest hour and a rehash would just be redundant). At any rate, if we don’t have an original adversary (and not all STs needed black hat villains either; some of the best episodes didn’t, in fact), at least we may look forward to an original story that uses Khan in a new way….

Live long and prosper, guys! ;-)

119. Red Dead Ryan - May 10, 2012

#114.

Okay, I see your point. But, in the end, they were both madmen bent on committing genocide.

120. Hat Rick - May 10, 2012

115, great minds do think alike! Jawohl!

(Just noticed I misspelled my own moniker in 116. It’s the lateness of the hour. That’s my excuse and I’m sticking to it.)

121. AJ - May 10, 2012

112: CTC

“The secrecy works. It keeps people talking and building interest”

Yes. Maybe a few hundred people. It keeps us talking.

Unlike the “ker-pow” in-your-face one year campaign for “Avengers” which will make one point five billion dollars, or the fully-FX & music filled “Hobbit” teaser which will also make a bil or so before hitting its stride.

122. Shilliam Watner - May 10, 2012

93. boborci – May 10, 2012
84. You know nothing.

Thank you Bob. I’m so tired of people deciding they’re going to hate this movie before they even see it! #84 does indeed know nothing, and needed to be told just that.

For that, Bob, I will forgive you the brewery. That’s how magnanimous I’m feeling right now. Looking forward to the film!

123. boborci - May 10, 2012

122. Interesting

124. Michael Hall - May 10, 2012

I never thought that an appearance by Khan in the next feature would result in a “remake” of “Space Seed” or TWOK, even to the extent that Trek ’09 was a virtual remake of TOP GUN. Talent aside, the writers involved are much too media-savvy not to cover their tracks better than that. I don’t do predictions, but my best guess is that the film will be chockablock with story elements (volcano suits, renegade CEOs (?), the Vulcan diaspora (?) ) that have nothing to do with any previous Trek adventures, even as it recycles the tired let’s-defeat-the-villain plotline that most of the Trek filmmakers felt obliged to follow, though that has almost nothing to do with what made the original series so unique and memorable. We’ll see.

That said, it pains me to see someone as sensible as Mr. Pascale taking up the supremely silly conceit of justifying Khan’s inclusion by lumping Star Trek in with various comic book franchises which, by their very nature, depend on their heroes confronting familiar opponents whose motives are never allowed to be too complex. Under the direction of Roddenberry and Coon, that simply wasn’t what TOS was about. Khan was not Kirk’s ongoing nemesis, but a one-off, memorable villain in a middling episode.. It was the triumph of TWOK to take that character and put him at the heart of a classic tale of friendship, mortality and sacrifice, thus making him retroactively an important part of the Trek universe even as the film itself (in the view of its writer/director) stands apart from the franchise on its own. But you can put together any Top 10 list of TOS episodes and see that at least 80-90% of them were not about taking down a bad guy, even the ones like “Balance of Terror” that had violence and conflict as their subject. That alone ought to be sufficient proof that Khan isn’t Trek’s answer to The Joker–but then, nothing dies harder than a bad analogy.

125. Red Dead Ryan - May 10, 2012

You simply can’t do a TMP or TVH today and expect it to make a half billion dollars at the box office. Those types of stories might have worked 25+ years ago, but times have changed since then. The whale-probe and V’Ger movies would only appeal to Trekkies.

Rightly, or wrongly, today’s action movies need a hero/versus villain storyline if the studios want to make the big bucks. Especially if the movie itself costs over $150 million.

Bringing back Khan has the advantage of bringing in new fans. People who want to see the sequel are going to check out “Space Seed” and “The Wrath Of Khan” to see what the big deal is about, even if the sequel doesn’t share much in common with those previous installments aside from the Khan character.

126. Shilliam Watner - May 10, 2012

Wouldn’t it be hilarious if everybody here posted as boborci?!

127. Adolescent Nightmare - May 10, 2012

80.

That’s all I want, boborci! No whiny old man here.

128. MJ - May 10, 2012

Just saw the trailer for Falling Skies Season II….WOW!!!

129. Shilliam Watner - May 10, 2012

No, it would not be. See!

LOL

130. Captain Ransom - May 10, 2012

#107:

i’m not sure you even understand what i mean by ‘purist’. actually what you say makes no sense at all. PURIST, meaning they don’t want their original sacred star wars changed or altered or messed with in any way. star wars fans go nuts every time george lucas adds or changes even the slightest part of the original movies. it’s pretty universal that star wars fans don’t even acknowledge episodes 1,2,3 as even star wars. trek fans seem to be the opposite, embracing the ‘new timeline’ like complete idiots and praising trek xi even though it was by far the worst trek movie ever. yes vader was the villain throughout because it is an ongoing saga, with each movie one part of the whole. trek movies are not all pieces of one large story.

131. dmduncan - May 10, 2012

Yes, anyone can post as anyone else. Then Anthony, who knows the real boborci’s ip(s), blocks YOUR ip.

So in the end, the real boborci always wins.

132. Jack - May 10, 2012

124. The ark thing was my lame face melting joke. What’s with all the ‘you know nothing’s? Fishing for outrage?

PS. Sounds like you’re happy with the way this thing turned out. Good sign.

Do you ever get a vacation?

133. Azrael - May 10, 2012

Its interesting that a guy who names himself after a starfleet captain who committed genocide has such a problem with JJ. Makes me want give JJ even more leeway.

134. boborci - May 10, 2012

125. Right. because Top Gun had a time travelling villain who split reality off into its own universe while two opposites from different planets had to overcome their differences to prevent destruction of earth. Just like Top Gun! You r a genius.

135. MJ - May 10, 2012

@131. I see, so a real Star Trek purist is someone who namecalls other Trek fans that disagree with him, “idiots”

I did not know that. Thanks for enlightening us!

136. gatetrek - May 10, 2012

122. IT’S A FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE! (?)

137. boborci - May 10, 2012

133. Righ? Nothing worse than a sycophant. Soon, one of them will be posting with my name to get attention.

138. Red Dead Ryan - May 10, 2012

Someone posing as someone else online isn’t funny. The sockpuppeteer, even if he/she is being funny, can cause the real namesake a lot of grief. Simply for the hijacking of the name. And there is the potential for a sockpuppeteer to post deeply hurtful and offensive comments that paint the true poster in a bad light with no way to defend him/herself or disprove what was said by the imposter. That and the potential for online fraud makes a “zero tolerance/insta-ban policy absolutely necessary.

139. Shilliam Watner - May 10, 2012

This has become surreal…

140. SirBroiler - May 10, 2012

@63 – Exactly! That’s why he’s playing Joaquin.

I think what you all fail to acknowledge is that Paramount isn’t in this to protect Star Trek canon. They are in this to reboot a franchise to make as much money as possible – which means appeal to the broadest audience. Which means Khan or some permutation of the Khan storyline (hence Joaquin)
Anyone who is in touch with popular culture knows who Khan is – whether they are a trek fan or not.

The general public doesn’t know anything about Gary Seven, Harry Mudd, Trelane, etc. If they’re not Trek fans they know Khan, Klingons and Borg. Maybe Gorn.

141. Jack - May 10, 2012

Queen to queen’s level three, Bob…

142. Phil - May 10, 2012

@73. This will end up being a hallow victory if the movie ends up posting John Carter numbers. Hope that doesn’t happen, but the potential is there…

143. MJ - May 10, 2012

Bob, I am your best sychopant!!! In fact I play the song “Father Figure” when I am reading your posts.

“I will be your father figure, til the end of time.”

144. Sebastian S. - May 10, 2012

# 125

Michael Hall. Well said.

My thoughts exactly (as I tried to phrase, though not as well, in #118). Since big budget comic book movies are kind of ‘the norm’ for summer blockbusters these days (and nothing against them; I enjoyed “The Avengers” very much), it is still more than a bit disappointing to think that ST is also falling back on the ‘bring in the popular villain guy’ thinking too. As you said, Khan was NOT Kirk’s “Joker” or “Lex Luthor.” ST doesn’t really work like that (at least, it hasn’t until NOW, perhaps….).

I sincerely hope I’m wrong in thinking that the ST franchise is going to just become an emulation of superhero movie formulae. Not sure Gene Roddenberry or Gene Coon would’ve been too thrilled with that. They saw the show as something a bit nobler and more thought-provoking. I guess nobility doesn’t make half a billion these days….

Again. Here’s me, hoping I’m VERY, VERY wrong! ;-)

145. Jack - May 10, 2012

143. Protect it from what? Enterprise?

“If they’re not Trek fans they know Khan.”

Do they? If they’re under 35?

146. Red Dead Ryan - May 10, 2012

Whoever is posing as Bob is a jerk. Probably not the poster/resident complainer “Jerk” but another jerk. Who knows though.

147. Anthony Pascale - May 10, 2012

Goodbye Jerk/fake orci

148. dmduncan - May 10, 2012

Well, it was just a matter of time before some boborci wannabe at AICN found out about this site.

149. boborci - May 10, 2012

I have to admit that now i am tempted to pretend to be fake Orci, but i dont want Anthony to ban me!

150. Ralph Pinheiro - May 10, 2012

How will I know that boborci is boborci?

151. LizardGirl - May 10, 2012

@104 You have every right to be disappointed. That’s not a joke or me being sarcastic. There are two sides to every coin. On this issue, you and I are on opposite sides. There’s nothing wrong with that at all.

My only issue is when disappointment turns into judgement and condemnation, or endless nitpicking and nagging. I can’t wrap my head around that–especially since the movie isn’t even out yet. But you are absolutely correct about the right to express your opinion. I respect that and candidly await any conversations we may have in the future–whether we agree or disagree on a subject.

**********************
I’ve heard several words tossed around when it comes to Khan: Rehash, Reboot, Remake. I think they’re just Refreshing the character or Reintroducing him, like they did in ST09. Remember the target audience. They want the fans to enjoy it of course, but they’re trying to open the doors to the masses. Many don’t know who Khan is, what movie or episode he was in, or anything significant about him. Again a very good way to familiarize the audience with Khan. Bring him into the new franchise.

152. boborci - May 10, 2012

148. First time thats happened.

153. dmduncan - May 10, 2012

150. Ralph Pinheiro – May 10, 2012

How will I know that boborci is boborci?

***

The real boborci stutters.

154. Anthony Thompson - May 10, 2012

Bob, why can’t you just say, “Khan isn’t in the movie”. Please! BTW, your ‘telling it like it is’ has me totally jazzed for 5/2013!!!

155. Red Dead Ryan - May 10, 2012

Well, that makes my post at #146 ironic.

156. MJ - May 10, 2012

@150 “How will I know that boborci is boborci?”

Easy, he will respond to your questions with answers to other questions you did not ask.

157. DavidJ - May 10, 2012

At this point, I don’t care WHO the villain is. I just want to see a new freakin Star Trek movie.

Besides, I don’t think people are being really fair to JJ here. Except for maybe the first one, the Trek movies have NEVER been particularly deep or complex or original. They were basically just straightforward action/adventure stories, with lots of crazy, over the top villains.

Obviously we should expect something different from the next TV series, whenever that comes, because they’ve got a lot more time to work with. But the Trek movies are SUPPOSED to be a bit more fun and mainstream. If JJ wants to bring Khan back for a kickass adventure story, so be it.

158. dmduncan - May 10, 2012

Also, he cleverly encodes clues about the movie in typos.

159. Jack - May 10, 2012

Confession: I had to google that Queen’s level three thing from the exploding green Batgirl episode. I couldn’t remember exactly how it went, I was trying to fit in.

160. Jack - May 10, 2012

158. lol.

Wow, I can be a sychophant for everybody, not just Bob.

161. MJ - May 10, 2012

@158 Yep!

162. moauvian waoul - aka: seymour hiney - May 10, 2012

Please stop comparing ST to comic books. They are different genres with different styles and expectations.

163. Michael Hall - May 10, 2012

“Right. because Top Gun had a time travelling villain who split reality off into its own universe while two opposites from different planets had to overcome their differences to prevent destruction of earth. Just like Top Gun! You r a genius.”

Gee, thanks! I could say, Mr. Orci, that your apparent confusion of the minutae of various story elements with plot and theme doesn’t bode too well for the next film–but since I’m determined to be an optimist, I’ll just point out that newspaper stories about the upcoming TOTAL RECALL insist on calling it a “remake,” even though both versions take place on entirely different planets! (Not only that, but in the previews I saw there wasn’t a three-breasted or midget prostitute to be found–I guess our Inner Geek is supposed to be satisfied with the flying cars.) So with all due respect, I would suggest you take your literalist crusade up with them.

164. Anthony Thompson - May 10, 2012

BTW, was that really you ‘telling like it is’ about the movie? Because I want my mind blown!!!

165. Anthony Pascale - May 10, 2012

Just want to confirm that the boborci posting here is the real boborci.

As per usual, anyone who spoofs another user (famous or not) gets banned with spoof posts deleted. So its kind of pointless to do it.

166. MJ - May 10, 2012

@162. Guess you never watched Star Trek – The Animated Series, and you never read “the original” DC Trek comics. Too bad — you missed some good stuf.

167. boborci - May 10, 2012

164. Oh yeah. Buckle up.

168. C Miles - May 10, 2012

Scary /sad that the only “boborci” comments I trust now either are quoted directly by Anthony (as he did above) or Bob Orci’s comments seen (every once in a while) over at Ain’t it Cool News.

People have too much time on their hands for nonsense. Impersonating Orci is clever, in the same way that peeing in the prom punch bowl is clever.

169. Vulcan Soul - May 10, 2012

So with all these comparisons, Star Trek has turned into a superhero franchise now. Nice. Well, I guess Flash Gordon always had its Ming, so AbramsTrek deserves its Khan ;-)

170. boborci - May 10, 2012

163. Fascinating. Would love to undersand what the hell u r talking about.

171. Captain Dunsel - May 10, 2012

Maybe the whole rumor is due to a misspelling? Perhaps they are bringing in James Cahn to play a galactic “godfather” (Bella Oxmyx?) figure who heads up a mob on Sigma Iotia II (“A piece of the action” planet).

172. LizardGirl - May 10, 2012

A fake boborci (which posts?!!)? Why not make up their own fake names? People these days….

173. MJ - May 10, 2012

@163. Ah, Dexter, my old friend….

174. Bob Orsee (or is it Orkee? Orchi?) - May 10, 2012

You know how you could tell that was a fake Orci? He was rude. I have never seen Real Orci be anything but civil, even in the face of intense nerd-rage over nuTrek.

175. Bob Orsee (or is it Orkee? Orchi?) - May 10, 2012

171, Captain Dunsel…do you mean James Caan? That would be awesome.

176. Phil - May 10, 2012

@150 I know! I know! Ask him a question! Who won the 88 World Series?

Wait. What question did you think I was gonna ask?

177. boborci - May 10, 2012

174. U got it right. Ronounced Orseeee.

178. boborci - May 10, 2012

Pronounced

179. AJ - May 10, 2012

140:

“Anyone who is in touch with popular culture knows who Khan is – whether they are a trek fan or not.”

My 11 year old daughter, and 9-year-old son, who know all the Potter characters from book and film, and most Star Wars characters, and read Hunger Games and the long-running “Warriors” book series about warring cat clans have no idea who Khan is. It is a 30-year old film. THEY are in touch with popular culture, and Khan is not a part of it. Not by a long shot.

180. MJ - May 10, 2012

@170 “163. Fascinating. Would love to undersand what the hell u r talking about.”

Agreed. “Dexter” (Michael Hall) has that effect on a lot of us here.

181. boborci - May 10, 2012

On an airplane for next three hours…

182. MJ - May 10, 2012

@181. Going to see Mom?

183. dmduncan - May 10, 2012

Michael, I confess I also don’t see much in common between Top Gun (a film I detest) and ST.09.

184. boborci - May 10, 2012

179. Interesting.

185. dmduncan - May 10, 2012

@181: To LA, or La?

186. Ralph Pinheiro - May 10, 2012

Mr. Bob, Will I see a teaser of Star Trek XII this year? Have you just talked about the title?

187. The Last Vulcan - May 10, 2012

That’s it! boborci has finally dropped THE clue to the identity of the Cumby character: Mind blowing character originated in the 60s… it can only be… TIMOTHY LEARY! He wants to take the LSD Enterprise on a real trip! :)

188. MJ - May 10, 2012

@183. Agreed. Dexter has some interesting ideas now and then, but Top Gun? Really???

189. boborci - May 10, 2012

185. Back home to Los Angeles.

190. MJ - May 10, 2012

@179. No offense dude, but what kind of Trek fan dad doesn’t train his kids to watch Trek and know basic characters from the franchaise?

191. Jack - May 10, 2012

179. Yeah.

192. Jack - May 10, 2012

190. Khan’s a basic character from the franchise?

193. dmduncan - May 10, 2012

If you get bored, there’s this place — and lots of questions you asked for on EG blog. Man they ask a lot of questions. Almost as bad as us!

194. MJ - May 10, 2012

@189. You may not know it, Bob, but our Lakers our getting their ass handed to em right now in Denver. Argh!

BTW, I read today in the LA Times that JJ will be dining with Obama at Clooney’s house — I think either tonight or tomorrow night.

195. boborci - May 10, 2012

163. And may i say that your use of italics is so …. Deep.

196. boborci - May 10, 2012

194. I was invited and declined.

197. MJ - May 10, 2012

@192. Yea, there was that very minor movie, you may remember: Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. :-)

198. MJ - May 10, 2012

@196. Yea, I figured that Obama would be way too conservative for you. ;-)

199. Vultan - May 10, 2012

Trek ’09 was like Top Gun? I don’t see it.

The flick seemed more like a cross between ST: Nemesis and Superman: The Movie. With a touch of Animal House.

200. The Last Vulcan - May 10, 2012

@196: No wonder I idolize boborci. He turns down invitations to dine at the White House. Bob Orci For President! :)

201. Bob Orsee (or is it Orkee? Orchi?) - May 10, 2012

@177 Bob…cool, thanks for the confirmation.

It’s the best pronunciation for exclamation too. Orrrr-seeeeee!!!

202. Jack - May 10, 2012

163. So, wait, you’re saying if Khan’s in it should be called a remake? Even if it’s a completely different story? Is this just quibbling about words?

So, Bob, this is a fresh Khan story, right?

(I’m hoping there’s alcohol service on that plane.)

203. jesustrek - May 10, 2012

I’m The Real Bob Orci….LOL :) Heeey Orci for when will be the first Treaser ???

Saludos

204. MJ - May 10, 2012

@200. Well, there is the minor fact here that that dinner is at George Clooney’s house, not the White House.

205. Red Dead Ryan - May 10, 2012

“Space Seed” is one of the best Trek episodes ever. “The Wrath Of Khan” is one of the best Trek movies ever. If you’re trying to get a non-fan into Trek, those two installments are required viewing. I mean, I can excuse someone for not being familiar with TWOK, since that is a movie, and usually isn’t aired that often on television and you either have to buy or rent it or borrow it from somebody, but TOS is on tv all the time, and with only 79 episodes, “Space Seed” re-airs in the rotation quite frequently.

206. The Last Vulcan - May 10, 2012

@204 Ok, so it’s dinner at the house of a man who is more powerful than the dude who lives in the White House. After all, Obama can veto laws, but Clooney nearly veto’d the entire Batman franchise! :)

207. dmduncan - May 10, 2012

@196. Good for you. I like Clooney, but right now he seems clueless.

208. jonathan evans - May 10, 2012

reading the comments here is a blast. so much pompous bullshit, it’s a wonder we survived the 21st century. looking forward to the movie, and many more. thanks for the stories!

209. Red Dead Ryan - May 10, 2012

Either from TOS or TWOK, people have to have a clue about who Khan is. I mean, c’mon, Khan was even mentioned on “Seinfeld” for crying out loud!

210. MJ - May 10, 2012

@205 ““Space Seed” is one of the best Trek episodes ever. “The Wrath Of Khan” is one of the best Trek movies ever. If you’re trying to get a non-fan into Trek, those two installments are required viewing. I mean, I can excuse someone for not being familiar with TWOK, since that is a movie, and usually isn’t aired that often on television and you either have to buy or rent it or borrow it from somebody, but TOS is on tv all the time, and with only 79 episodes, “Space Seed” re-airs in the rotation quite frequently.”

Agree Completely !!! Space Seed is on most major magazines and web sites Top 10 Trek episdoes lists, and TWOK is typically rated in at least the Top 3 of all of the movies.

Yea, you damn well better know that my kids know who the hell Khan is! :-))

211. Red Dead Ryan - May 10, 2012

AJ did live in Russia for awhile. If his daughter grew up there, and “Star Trek” wasn’t aired that often, then I can understand his daughter not knowing who Khan is.

212. dmduncan - May 10, 2012

TWOK may have had a huge impact on Trek fans, but it didn’t have a huge impact on the culture at large. Khan is simply not as big as Darth Vader, because the Star Trek movies were not as impactful as the Star Wars movies. I think Star Wars speaks to the very young in a way that Star Trek does not…so it has a way of creating new fans continuously.

213. MJ - May 10, 2012

@211. OK, good to know. AJ, my comments are meant in general then.

214. Jack - May 10, 2012

209. “Khan was even mentioned on “Seinfeld” for crying out loud!”

Yep, 16 years ago.

Kids graduating from high school right now were born in 1994 or 95. We’re f**king old.

215. The Last Vulcan - May 10, 2012

@212 Star Wars speaks to the very young because it’s a merchandising ploy for the FisherPrice set masquerading as a movie series. The last 4 movies were unforgivable toy pitches.

216. Red Dead Ryan - May 10, 2012

#212.

I agree with you on that. No doubt. But still, Khan is one of the most famous Trek villains. We’re not talking about Harry Mudd or DaiMon Bok here.

217. C Miles - May 10, 2012

Slightly off topic… if there is an actual topic here by comment TwoHundred+

After seeing more of Moffat’s Sherlock, I wish in hindsight that Moffat and Company had cast Cumberbatch as the current Doctor-

Damn he’s good.

Then again, he would have been too busy, (and typecast) to have made it to the Trekverse. I doubt the few Sherlock eps he’s in in year will prevent him from being believable in roles elsewhere.

Anyone that hasn’t caught Sherlock- It’s a must see- Quality storytelling.

218. MJ - May 10, 2012

@214. OK then, what is your excuse then for the multiple times that Khan has been referenced on The Big Bang Theory — a CURRENT tv show that I believe is the #1 rated show on TV right now.

219. kmart - May 10, 2012

14. James M – May 10, 2012
I am with Thorny. Yes! Just the name “Khan” alone would have every middle-aged and senior STAR TREK fan bring forth the $12 to see the movie on the silver screen. I don’t need 3D for this movie.

Fitting the general demographic you cite, I have to say you’re crazy. Folks in their 50s actually remember films that weren’t made with ADD editing. They also remember (assuming they don’t have Alzheimer’s) the CONTEXT of how a character was being presented. Just arbitrarily putting four letters together to spell KHAN should only ‘bring forth’ runnerup contestants from BEAT THE GEEKS.

163,

Liked your post, but various unshot drafts of TOTAL RECALL that preceded Arnie’s involvement were also set on Earth, when DiLaurentis had it and wanted to cheap out and shoot in Australia or the Carolinas. You can definitely do a version of TOTAL RECALL without the Mars element, but based on the clips I can definitely not want to see it.

Putting Blofeld in NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN didn’t put ALL of the original recipe Connery/Bond fans into theater seats in 1983, either. Even getting Connery back wasn’t enough … Again, a matter of context … and also execution, which at this point for abramstrek2013 is something we can only guess at, based on the uhhh, umm, talents and such of those involved.

I can’t think of anything that would put me in a seat for the next one (that’s just like the last one, come to think of it.)

220. The Last Vulcan - May 10, 2012

@216 Bring back Adhar Ru’afo… NOT! :)

221. Red Dead Ryan - May 10, 2012

#214.

“Seinfeld” still airs a lot on television. Reruns are on all the time. I suspect even the fifteen year olds watch it. It’s still hilarious after all these years.

222. MJ - May 10, 2012

@216 “I agree with you on that. No doubt. But still, Khan is one of the most famous Trek villains. We’re not talking about Harry Mudd or DaiMon Bok here.”

Yep. Obviously Khan is not as well known as Vader. But he is still pretty well known.

223. kmart - May 10, 2012

CORRECTION: paragraphs 4 and 5 migrated from their positions as paragraphs 3 and 4. Therefore they don’t apply to 163, but to 14. Have no idea how that happened, therefore must be a conspiracy. Apologies to 163.

224. MJ - May 10, 2012

@219 “You can definitely do a version of TOTAL RECALL without the Mars element, but based on the clips I can definitely not want to see it.”

Yea, I was so pissed off when I saw that Mars would not be in the film that I have decided to personaly boycott it. In fact, I watched my Blu-Ray of Total Recall last week and it made me realize what a hidden jem that movie still is.

225. MJ - May 10, 2012

@223 “Have no idea how that happened, therefore must be a conspiracy.”

Bob, you still there? Did you hear about this? A conspiracy?

226. The Last Vulcan - May 10, 2012

I just want to mention that in an age when TMZ et al. are crawling up every butt in Hollywood revealing what underarm deodorant Star X uses, keeping the entire plot and characters of a major motion picture completely in lockdown right through to the end of shooting is a feat that not even the CIA could pull off. Megakudos to boborci, JJ, and everyone else involved. It’s driving the fans crazy and we (secretly) love it! :)

227. MJ - May 10, 2012

@226. And then there is Christopher Nolan…

228. Red Dead Ryan - May 10, 2012

I’d put Khan in the Magneto/ Bloefeld-tier of villain fame. Darth Vader, Joker, Lex Luthor are one notch higher on the popularity chart.

229. boborci - May 10, 2012

226 loL!

230. AJ - May 10, 2012

211: Red Dead Ryan:

I lived in Russia with every single episode on tape, and eventually DVD.

I made every effort to get the kids into Trek, but without little Yodas or R2D2s, it doesn’t quite catch on like that other franchise. My son has the Klingon/Vulcan/Ferengi/Klingon Teddies from Vegas still, unless my ex has given them away.

The kiddies had enough exposure to Trek, as I have mentioned before, for my daughter to cry foul in 2009 when Spock and Uhura kissed. The girls always go for Spock. She said “That’s just wrong.” I was proud. Sorry, Bob & team.

231. Canopener1256 - May 10, 2012

Here is what to see in star trek 2 … The Enterprise in glorious flybys … Planets. … Aliens .. Other ships .. Explosions .. And a good story about the crew of the enterprise. Couldn’t care less if the Villian is khan. Cumberbatch will deliver. Also, more McCoy. Bonuses will include Pike and Klingons. Five stars if all of the above plus Nimoy.

Bob .. What star rating can we expect?

232. Jack - May 10, 2012

I have zero research on this, except for what I’m pulling out of my ass, but I’d be pretty surprised if the average 9-year-old watches TOS, or would have seen it at all. Ever. At least, not any I know. It’s all Cartoon Network, Nikelodeon, Disney, movies on Netflix and, well, videogames and endless soccer/dance/you-name-it lessons. Kids today aren’t sent to the basement after school to watch the 4 channels on TV like some of us were.

Misunderstood teenagers revel in the obscure, so I could see them seeking this stuff out.

Geek culture/reliving our 70s/80s childhoods became huge for awhile (and it’s everywhere online) and it became an Urban Outfitters-style industry,, but just because something’s referenced on The Big Bang Theory, it doesn’t mean people watching it are fully in on the joke.

I think there’s a pretty big gap between, well, everybody, and the people here who think this movie series will get non-TOS fans buying replica phaser rifles at conventions and get Trek back on primetime TV.

233. boborci - May 10, 2012

225. Conspiracy? Dont get me started

234. boborci - May 10, 2012

231

*****

235. Jack - May 10, 2012

Yes, Seinfeld’s still on. So it Trek. So is Prime Suspect (great show). But that doesn’t mean everybody knows who Khan is.

I’m not kidding here. Who’s Blofeld? Usually I wiki this stuff to look smart.

236. The Last Vulcan - May 10, 2012

@229 Reminder to self: Must not bug boborci to check out the secret site with the mega crossover movie / tv series / 24 hour webcast pitch complete with full bible that shatters all genres… must not bug boborci… must not bug boborci… :)

237. Red Dead Ryan - May 10, 2012

#226.

I believe Star X used the “Secret” brand of deodorant.

238. MJ - May 10, 2012

AJ, whatever you do, don’t let your daughter see The Naked Time. ;-)

239. Jack - May 10, 2012

As opposed to Star Trek X, which needed deodorant.

240. somethoughts - May 10, 2012

#196

Boborci did you decline like Tim Thomas of the bruins or was it because you were busy

241. The Last Vulcan - May 10, 2012

@234: So… boborci has confirmed that the great Nimoy will be in ST2. I’m floored but elated!

242. MJ - May 10, 2012

Jack, I will repeat my earlier post with a question for you:

OK then, what is your excuse then for the multiple times that Khan has been referenced on The Big Bang Theory — a CURRENT tv show that I believe is the #1 rated show on TV right now.

243. Red Dead Ryan - May 10, 2012

Blofeld was the bald villain from the early Bond films. “You Only Live Twice”, “Thunderball”, “On Her Majesty’s Secret Service”, “Diamonds Are Forever”, etc. He was bald, and he headed the evil S.P.E.C.T.R.E organization bent on world conquest. Mike Myers ripped him off for his “Austin Powers” movies.

244. Ahmed - May 10, 2012

@Bob,

What movie are you watching on the plane now ? If you are still up in the air ;)

245. Vultan - May 10, 2012

#235

Blofeld was James Bond’s nemesis in several movies.
The guy with the cat.

246. MJ - May 10, 2012

@244 “Snakes on a Plane?”

247. AJ - May 10, 2012

Question:

Can we get “the children” back into Trek?

We get so many crusty dads and moms here from the days of old (and crusty writers), how can we get the kiddies to watch the films without Nintendo DS machines in-hand? Maybe, more tribbles?

248. Azrael - May 10, 2012

My daughter is 5 and loves to watch Star Trek with me. I started watching ST well before SW, as did the other children in my family, heck my brother went out as Spock on Halloween in the pre-TNG days (he was about 7). Personally Yoda and Jabba scared me when Jedi first came out, even the Horta didn’t scare me on ST.

249. boborci - May 10, 2012

240. I was not busy.

250. Red Dead Ryan - May 10, 2012

It’s funny, Tim Thomas didn’t play as well after the White House snub.

I doubt Bob knows who Tim Thomas is. He doesn’t follow hockey.

251. Jack - May 10, 2012

I’m not saying Khan’s obscure, btw. But, my 90-year-old grandma would get a Yoda reference. She’d get a Kardashian reference too. Khan, probably not.

BBT — the point is that these guys are nerds. Penny doesn’t get most of their references, and wouldn’t want to.

252. boborci - May 10, 2012

244. Not watching any movie. Talking to you instead!

253. Ahmed - May 10, 2012

@246. MJ – May 10, 2012

“@244 “Snakes on a Plane?””

lol, I need to see that one!

254. Jack - May 10, 2012

245. Thanks. Never saw ‘em as a kid.

255. MJ - May 10, 2012

@251 “BBT — the point is that these guys are nerds. Penny doesn’t get most of their references, and wouldn’t want to.”

I knew you would come up with something Jack, and it kills me to say that you have a point there! :-0

256. The Last Vulcan - May 10, 2012

@239 There was nothing wrong with ST:Nemesis that couldn’t have been fixed by ripping up the script and exiling Stuart Baird to Rura Penthe. Paramount did the exact opposite there than they did when they handed the franchise to JJ, boborci et al. Instead of putting people in place who respected and understood the franchise they gave it to an upstart editor who couldn’t tell a dilithium crystal from a bottle of Cristal. :(

257. Jack - May 10, 2012

244. So, is not going to the dinner a statement? Haven’t read up on it, is it a big fundraising thing or just a few guys watching Oceans 13 and talking about gay marriage.

258. MJ - May 10, 2012

@252. Bob, I know the entire plot for Enders Game, but am willing to keep it a secret on your behalf.

259. MJ - May 10, 2012

@257 “just a few guys watching Oceans 13 and talking about gay marriage.”

LOL

260. boborci - May 10, 2012

258. Lol

261. Ahmed - May 10, 2012

@252. boborci – May 10, 2012

“244. Not watching any movie. Talking to you instead!”

Always a pleasure when you come here & make us all go nuts with your posts which btw; sound a lot like a Vorlon when they talk ;)

262. Red Dead Ryan - May 10, 2012

Bob isn’t a fan of Obama.

263. Jack - May 10, 2012

255. LOL. When I loiter here and make ridiculous, nitpicking arguments, usually it’s because I’m supposed to be meeting a deadline. But priorities come first. :)

264. boborci - May 10, 2012

262. Obama is no worse than most presidents. The problem is that we are onto them now.

265. MJ - May 10, 2012

Bob, you should check out at some point the following two novels, which are really one long novel — outstand hard sf, yet action packed space opera as well, with politics, dozens of plot threads, outstanding characters, etc. Somebody needs to make these into a series of movies!

http://www.amazon.com/Pandoras-Star-Peter-F-Hamilton/dp/0345479211

http://www.amazon.com/Judas-Unchained-Peter-F-Hamilton/dp/0345461665

266. The Last Vulcan - May 10, 2012

@265 Hey, MJ, if I can’t pitch boborci neither can you! :)

267. Jack - May 10, 2012

262. Hmmm. Didn’t know. I need to get on Twitter more, I guess. :)

Wait, this isn’t why he’s doing a Card movie, is it? :(

268. Ahmed - May 10, 2012

@265. MJ – May 10, 2012

I keep hopping that one day Hollywood will adapt any of Peter F Hamilton books into movies. I loved his Night’s Dawn Trilogy, the best space opera out there

269. MJ - May 10, 2012

Card it rather homophobic as i recall, unless he had moderated his views in recent years?

270. The Last Vulcan - May 10, 2012

@262… I dunno. Maybe in the alternate ST universe George HW Bush had to resign because of a geriatric sex scandal and Dan Quayle became President! He would have been be worse than Obama for sure!

271. Jack - May 10, 2012

264. Haven’t we always been? It’s, I don’t have the right adjective, interesting that all the politicking/appeasing/deal-making seems especially obvious with Obama, because we expected miracles.

I guess we’re not allowed to talk politics. Who’s Cumberbatch playing?

272. Charla - May 10, 2012

I knew it. :D on both accounts. One, that Khan isn’t neccessarily the villian, and Two, that wasn’t Bob. HA! ;P

I hope you have a nice break between projects. Have some fun with your family and relax, because you have a little more than a year to hear this bantering and bickering. LOL Here you go, have a drink on me, you deserve it- no, you will need it by then!

273. Ahmed - May 10, 2012

Also Alastair Reynolds wrote some amazing books.

274. Red Dead Ryan - May 10, 2012

#264.

I know you’re a big fan of JFK. Any others, like Lincoln, FDR, Eisenhower,etc?

275. boborci - May 10, 2012

Wonderful thing about Obama is that he is living proof that no matter the color of your skin, or where you were born, anyone can grow up to be a puppet of the militaryindustrialpharmaceutical complex.

276. Harry Ballz - May 10, 2012

Bob Orci

did you ever check out the Black Pope?

Also, did you get my latest email?

277. The Last Vulcan - May 10, 2012

@271: Cumby is playing the Horta. :)

278. MJ - May 10, 2012

@276. Ah, here we go again…right on schedule….LOL

279. MJ - May 10, 2012

@273. Reynolds books are well written, but typically they depress me a bit. Have you read the SM Stirling “Dies the Fire” series?

280. Jack - May 10, 2012

Seriously, make a movie about that.

281. Red Dead Ryan - May 10, 2012

What I could never figure out is how George W. Bush got a second term in office.

282. rogerachong - May 10, 2012

No that will be a Khanspiracy.

283. Charla - May 10, 2012

276 Bob, ouch!!

But oh so true…. sad thing is, I think most of them running for the Presidency are all the same. Just different militaryindustrialpharmaceutical companies that are in their pockets. I don’t look for much to change with any of the choices we have.

284. The Last Vulcan - May 10, 2012

@276 So it is a conspiracy between the Illuminati and the Organians! I knew it! Just age Cumby a bit and he looks a lot like Ayelborne! Same accent too! :)

285. boborci - May 10, 2012

281. Same way he got first term. Fraud.

286. Ahmed - May 10, 2012

@276. boborci

I guess no one can beat the system from the inside, even if they dreamed of doing that. Not Obama or any other politician under the current American political system.

287. C Miles - May 10, 2012

Vreenak and I both think 276 is a fake. Enough already.

288. boborci - May 10, 2012

286. They can try. Havent seen Obama try.

289. boborci - May 10, 2012

287. Nope!

290. Red Dead Ryan - May 10, 2012

#276.

Sadly, only if you’re rich. Unfortunately, I can’t see poor li’l Keenser being elected. :-(

291. boborci - May 10, 2012

Landing soon. Will have to drop off. Thanks for the fun.

292. Jeremy Clarkson - May 10, 2012

It’s Gary Mitchell. not Kahn at all. Mark my words. Super strength, starfleet uniform. nuff said.

293. Ahmed - May 10, 2012

@279. MJ – May 10, 2012

“@273. Reynolds books are well written, but typically they depress me a bit. Have you read the SM Stirling “Dies the Fire” series?”

I just start reading the first book after you mentioned it in the Revolution article.

I keep looking for good hard SF books, not easy to come across one these days.

294. Charla - May 10, 2012

286 What do you mean by no one can beat the system from the inside? I think once they are inside the definitely can beat the system. They feed off each other-

295. The Last Vulcan - May 10, 2012

@291 Thanks for confirming that we’ll be seeing Spock Prime boborci! I know I speak for the vast majority of commenters on this site when I say that we really appreciate your magnificent work and your contributions here! :)

296. Red Dead Ryan - May 10, 2012

#285.

Interesting. What kind of fraud got him re-elected?

297. Charla - May 10, 2012

286 that wasn’t meant to sound hateful… hard to show inflection when words are typed. Was wanting to see if I am missing something.

298. The Last Vulcan - May 10, 2012

@296 Jeb and (hanging) Chad! :)

299. Anthony Pascale - May 10, 2012

“Jeremy Clarkson”

Please dont use famous person name here

300. Jack - May 10, 2012

It’s funny, I talk with an acquaintance who does work on (mostly-ceremonial) social/environmental campaigns for major companies (big oil, big pharma, big coffee) and she’s terrified for all of us, based on conversations she’s had with CEOs, who, she says “know less than my manager at Burger King in high school” about, well, most things. They’re there to make money.

Game of Thrones is less scary.

301. Ahmed - May 10, 2012

@291. boborci – May 10, 2012
“Landing soon. Will have to drop off. Thanks for the fun.”

Thanks a lot for stopping by & interacting with us here, much appreciate it.

302. covalent - May 10, 2012

If there’s any narrative controversy about the potential use of Khan, it seems to me it stems from the general conceit that Star Trek has an ongoing, continuous timeline — at least it did until the reboot. Following the Batman example, we’re used to seeing the Joker reimagined for different comics, television series, films, etc. And we expect a new James Bond every decade or so. Not so with Khan. So far, there’s just been one of him.

303. MJ - May 10, 2012

@293. Cool! I also recommend some of the Greg Bear books from the 1990’s — Eon and Eternity, and Forge of God and Anvil of Stars.

304. boborci - May 10, 2012

296. Google ohio in that election year.

305. The Last Vulcan - May 10, 2012

@300 I once worked for a demonic old publisher who was fond of saying “every top executive commits an indictable offense at least once a day.”

306. Anthony Pascale - May 10, 2012

I’m not sure Bob confirmed or denied anything, unless he wants to correct me

If so i would be making a headline out of it.

BTW: lets try not to divert into politics.

I promise when we get forums running on the site, we will have to have a section called Bobs Conspiracy Corner, where we can talk all about it

307. boborci - May 10, 2012

306. Yeah!

308. boborci - May 10, 2012

God night!

309. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - May 10, 2012

Bob Orci. Always a pleasure to have you on here. But sometimes you sound like computer. lol.

310. Charla - May 10, 2012

Yes, thanks and have a good night, Bob. And to the rest of the posters here, have a good night too.

300 I hear you- and I certainly believe it too. Money is God to many anymore so it isn’t suprising.

I am about to fall asleep as I type, hope to hear more thoughts about these topics tomorrow.

311. The Last Vulcan - May 10, 2012

@306: AP, I dunno… 231 & 234 could certainly be seen as stating otherwise! :)

Can I be the first to set up shop on Bob’s Conspiracy Corner? I’ve got a big steamer trunk full of conspiracy theories! :)

312. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - May 10, 2012

Hey Anthony. Have a Bob’s Orci Conspiracy blog and Bob Orci will take it from you and run it. lol. But. That’s not a bad thing.

313. Harry Ballz - May 10, 2012

308.

“Not just a God night, Bob, a great night!”

(where am I paraphrasing from?)

314. Azrael - May 10, 2012

Jason of Star Command is now available on Netflix streaming service. Thought a few of you guys might like to know.

315. The Last Vulcan - May 10, 2012

@308 Please, boborci, try to be more politically correct. You should have typed:

Deity who may or may not be fictional night.

:)

316. Anthony Pascale - May 10, 2012

good night everyone. and come back tomorrow…i have some more sequel news cooking

317. Red Dead Ryan - May 10, 2012

#306.

Are you redesigning the website?

318. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - May 10, 2012

Good Night Anthony. Can’t wait to see what you have cooking for us.

319. Ahmed - May 10, 2012

@294. Charla – May 10, 2012

“286 What do you mean by no one can beat the system from the inside? I think once they are inside the definitely can beat the system. They feed off each other-”

Almost everyone I spoke too, bought into the idea that Obama, once elected, will change DC from the inside & make it actually work. That he will make the system work for the people, not the CEOs. I guess we were a bit naive or too optimistic.

Things didn’t work out for him, that why I’m saying that, as long as the current system is powerful, it is almost impossible for one person to change that. Almost every politician seek support from Wall Street or other power group. At the end, they work for the benefit of the CEOs who got them there in the first place.

We will not see a true life version of Mr. Smith Goes to Washington!

—————————
@303. MJ – May 10, 2012

“@293. Cool! I also recommend some of the Greg Bear books from the 1990’s — Eon and Eternity, and Forge of God and Anvil of Stars.”

I read most of the novels by the Killer Bs (David Brin, Gregory Benford, Greg Bear, Stephen Baxter).

320. Ahmed - May 10, 2012

@316. Anthony Pascale – May 10, 2012

“good night everyone. and come back tomorrow…i have some more sequel news cooking”

have a good night & I agree, no more politics here.

321. MJ - May 10, 2012

@319. Likewise! Sounds like we have similar reading tastes, dude!

322. MJ - May 10, 2012

@316. Outstanding, Anthony!!!

323. Jack - May 10, 2012

Night, folks. I had a nice time here tonight.

324. The Last Vulcan - May 10, 2012

@316 I’m going to spoil AP’s sequel news:

1) The plot is actually Turnabout Intruder and Chris Pine does the whole movie in drag.

2) The Corporate Executive that Peter Weller plays works for Anheuser-Busch and he’s after the Enterprise to return its engineering section back to making beer.

3) Simon Pegg is taken over by Ronin and he makes out with Keenser.

4) The nacelles are covered by Coco Marie Austin’s bra.

:)

325. MJ - May 10, 2012

Great night — good night, everyone!

326. DJT - May 10, 2012

Goodnight, Bob. Thank you for the fun.

327. Newman - May 10, 2012

Anthony – I totally agree with you on this one

328. Mike Tomaras - May 10, 2012

Wouldn’t be funny if it’s Captain Garth? Garth of Izar?
Hmmm….

329. Jason - May 11, 2012

@ 22: Exactly! Part of me wants it to be Khan as I’m sure JJ and crew will mess it up and further show how non-cannon JJ-Trek really is!

Unless Nero and Spock’s travel through time can change whole ships and physical appearance of pre-established character existing before their trip to the past.

Orci, serious, just admit it was always a different universe and we can move on.

330. Martok - May 11, 2012

The best movie in the franchise is STAR TREK: FIRST CONTACT! ;9

331. Charmer - May 11, 2012

Please for god’s sake: no KHAN!!! The Star Trek universe is so huge: why retread on material that was done perfect this first time around?

332. JRT! - May 11, 2012

Hear,hear! REALLY hope the rumours are wrong! Maybe something will be revealed at Comic Con in July,good thing I got a ticket before it sold out,lol!

It’s FRIDAY!!!!! Have fun y’all! J-R!

333. Jim Nightshade - May 11, 2012

I luv it when mr or-see makes comments/clues to us overly xcited devoted trekfanboysngals—it is a double edged sword…we all seem to have so many opposing divergent opinions/fears/desires regarding their newest creations in our favorite universe…first tos n their characters are indeed more action shoot from the hip oriented…much closer to comic book characters/faster paced broadly appealing humor and humanity—despite all these cries for originality trek is a franchise….an established sandbox that creative gentlemen like bob n jj get to play in and stamp their own styles,personalities and storylines in and we fans are the richer for it—there is nothing negative about a comparing trek to a superhero movie like avengers—they are closer–after all chris hemsworth went from being kirks dad to thundergod thor within a year! and hes married quorra from tron legacy lucky guy—hahha—my real point is comics have heroes/villains n spectacular epic plots stories–avengers works on many levels—perfect casting for known heroes–humor which is not at the expense of the characters, epic action and heros with flaws, human and vulnerable–joss whedon wrotw n directed and the quieter moments just as interesting as the spectacular ones–each hero had his moments to shine—-in imax 3d—billion bucks later—good and great trek will and has had all of these same things going for it—stan lee jack kirby, dikto et al created iconic american flawed and very human heroes in the 60s so did gene roddenberry…not so different–avengers had a great year of publicity as well as several good movies to build it all up—genius—hope jj n alex n robert are up to making the new trek just as much fun, bad ass, thrilling, epic and cosmicley entertaining for us fanboys and general audiences as well–know what? I think they are….and i for one cant wait! thanx mr orci for all u do—thanx to anthony for this fascinating forum as well…..llop

334. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - May 11, 2012

“It seems to be a given that they [superhero movies] will use classic villains, and yet with Star Trek this seems to be controversial for some.”

I’ll say it again despite it being an unpopular sentiment: the reason it’s ‘controversial’ is that Star Trek, as a franchise, has never been centrally about villains. A superhero needs a villain to bring out his or her heroism (with the exception of revisionist superhero fiction like the Watchmen that subverts the paradigm). Star Trek has employed villains, of course, but the crew of the Enterprise is not defined by fighting ‘evil’ – its stated premise is to explore new worlds and new civilizations. Star Trek shines in the examination of concepts that rides on the coattails of the physical exploration.

It’s disappointing to contemplate the prospect of the new Star Trek movie featuring a villain again, but especially a villain that has already gotten sufficient coverage. (Although I hasten to remind all the TWOK worshipers that, unlike Space Seed, the movie never actually engaged with the problem of eugenics.)

335. La Reyne d'Epee - May 11, 2012

It’s all getting too much for me.

*THUNK*

*takes to sick bed with attack of the vapours*

336. danielcraigsmywookiebitchnow - May 11, 2012

306 are you really working on having forums on the site? If so very cool, always wondered why you didnt have forums

337. Geek Girl - May 11, 2012

I wonder if Benedict will be playing Joachim Khan’s Second in Command. There is some similarity in their facial features and this could be a way of using Khan without having him as the main villain.

338. Nuallain - May 11, 2012

One thing that strikes me is that you can’t reasonably remake Space Seed anyway since the size of the Enterprise and her crew has changed in the new universe, but not the Botany Bay and hers. The idea of Khan and a few sympathizers could take over the new Enterprise seems somehow impossible.

Perhaps what they’ll do instead is have a DIFFERENT ship find the Botany Bay first… one that fares well that the Prime Enterprise did against him. It would be an interesting new and different “WHAT IF…” to do with Khan to say “What if he did get a chance to get established? To build a following and a force?”

Both previous Khan stories have effectively contained him– first aboard the Enterprise and then locked in battle with it from aboard the Reliant — with the stated threat being that if he got out, got free to rampage around the Federation, the damage would be epic.

Perhaps we’re finally going to get to see ‘Khan Unbound’ as it were. To see what his grand master plan for galactic conquest would actually have looked like if he’d gotten the chance.

339. Soonerdew - May 11, 2012

Anthony, delighted to hear we might get forums here. Alsos equally delighted to have this discussion declared a “No politics” zone.

340. crazydaystrom - May 11, 2012

#15-

“the TOS Khan was full of crap and wasn’t Khan Singh at all, but his cousin Murray”

FOR THE WIN, JACK, FTW!!!!!

Everybody missed it!

WARNING !!!!!!! SPOILER AHEAD!!!

First we had “A Murray” Khan now it’s “British” Khan!

ALL now revealed!

*duckzenrunz*

heh heh heh ;-))

341. CmdrR - May 11, 2012

Again… Khan is a genetic splooge sponge. The name could belong to his mad scientist creator, not to his “parents.” So… he can be whatever TPTB want him to be, ethnically.
Hell, there could be MORE THAN ONE KHAN! Ever consider that one, Bub? Maybe that test tube got splooged more than once.

Sammy Khan
Madeleine Khan
Chakka Khan
And the black sheep of the family, Dominique Strauss-Khan.

Kirk’s gonna be busy.

342. NCC-73515 - May 11, 2012

The main point about your argument is that comic book superhero movies also reuse the classic villains of their respective universes.

Problem is: Star Trek is not part of the fantasy comic book genre ;)

343. crazydaystrom - May 11, 2012

NCC-73515-

“Problem is: Star Trek is not part of the fantasy comic book genre”

Not a problem at all, IMO. In fact aptly analogous, I’d say.

344. Shanejo - May 11, 2012

I believe that the Benedict Cumberbatch character in the new film is one Khan’s group of refugees from the Botany Bay. They were somehow released from the Botany Bay (maybe by the Klingons) and have all scattered across the galaxy wreaking havoc.

This explains Cumberbatch ‘s comment that his character is “very strong”. This possible storyline also introduces the genetically engineered group without directly exposing Khan, possible to be saved for a later sequel.

Nice…

345. Buzz Cagney - May 11, 2012

I know nothing. And I’m talking in general there, not just about the movie!

If I was pushed i’d say its not Khan. On the other hand, of course, it might be Khan. Other than that I’m afraid I can’t add much to this conversation.

I am thinking of busting into Paramounts vaults and popping the film on. I’m not worried about ILM’s bit, we know that will be good.
I have my Shatner mask from last Halloween so I reckon that should be good enough to get me past Security.

Who’s bringing the popcorn? :-D

346. Buzz Cagney - May 11, 2012

I reckon Cumberbatch is playing Khan’s English cousin, Trevor Khan Singh. He ran a local corner shop in Birmingham until he got the call from India telling him he had to join the family business, World Domination and Wholesale Curry Supplies Ltd.
He found the hours a little bit of a pain to start with but took to the whole Dictatorship thing readily and actually came to enjoy it.
And the rest will be told in the movie. Or something like it will.

347. crazydaystrom - May 11, 2012

346-
By George, I think you’ve got it Buzz C.

But seriously, the title-

AUGMENTS ?

Botany Bay ?

Both probably already suggested.
I dunno. I’m just glad there are so many (potentially) great films to keep me (at least somewhat) distracted between now and then. And work and real life and stuff…

348. USSEXETER - May 11, 2012

Khan or no Khan I still stand by Bruce Greenwood’s comments when promoting the first film. Greenwood stated that the 3rd movie would “dovetail” to right where TOS begins, I take that statement as meaning the timeline will be fixed and restore canon.

349. Damian - May 11, 2012

I never assumed this would a remake of either Space Seed or TWOK. My own two cents was that this was a character and story that were extremely well done, almost perfect. After Star Trek (2009) I was left with the distinct impression the new team was going in a completely new direction with new stories. Rebooting Khan, even with an original story, just does not excite me. I suppose part of that is my desire for a completely original story involving the original characters. Khan is who he is. I don’t feel a need to revisit him. We’ve already had several stories in Star Trek involving genetically enhanced humans in Star Trek and different takes. Not only Space Seed and TWOK, but “Up the Long Ladder” from TNG, “Statistical Probabilities” and “Doctor Bashir, I Presume” from DS9 and the Augment arc on Enterprise. I don’t feel there’s much left to explore with augments, or superhumans.

I also find the comparisons to the Joker in Batman amusing. I’d hardly compare Jack Nicholson’s portrayal of the Joker to Ricardo Montalban and so forth. If there was ever a perfectly cast actor in a role, it was Montalban as Khan. While Nicholson was certainly well done, I’d hardly call it perfection. Star Trek is not Batman. I’m not interested in Star Trek’s take on “The Dark Knight.” I’m interested in a Star Trek story.

Of course, this is all guesswork at this point. It may not be anything like Batman (which I hope), and who knows, this may all be a wild goose chase. We could all very well be laughing next May about how we all thought Khan was going to be in it.

350. Jack - May 11, 2012

Omg, I’d never made the Khan/Strauss-Kahn connection before. Awesome.

Come to think of it, Julian Assange looks a little augment-y.

351. BitterTrekkie - May 11, 2012

I hate to use a cliche in regards to this reboot/remake nonsense, but….
If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and looks like a duck….

352. Selor Kiith - May 11, 2012

Well… for me it doesn’t matter if it is Khan, if it someone else, if it is some differen Story or not…

I just want to see that damn movie now… can’t wait!

353. Phil - May 11, 2012

@218. To reinforce the stereotype of the dork. Trek as fodder for humor. Gee, pon-farr is great, at least I’d get laid once every seven years. Cue audience laughter.

354. Mark Lynch - May 11, 2012

I’m really glad that we have had virtually no information on the latest Star Trek film.
Those of us old enough to remember a pre-Internet existence will recall that the only way we got any news was generally in publications such as Starlog and Enterprise Incidents (sighs)

We would find out some things in other ways, the occasional leak off the set itself, for instance.

But pretty much we would not have that much information about the film before going to see it.

Me? I think it’s great that JJ Abrams and his team are keeping a lid on the facts allowed to escape.
I want to be surprised when I go to see my films. Otherwise if you know pretty much everything before you go, what’s the point in bothering to go?

Khan or no Khan? I Khan’t(!) care less…
I just want a great story, well told, with great characters. Fantastic visual effects would not go amiss either!

If there is a Khan, I just hope the character is used in a new and interesting way.

Anthony, good luck with the forum. I hope we get to see it up and running soon. At the very least it will stop the fake Bob Orci’s in their tracks.

355. Phil - May 11, 2012

@345. Sounds like a winner to me. As plausible as anything else suggested so far….

356. rogue_alice - May 11, 2012

boborci, please don’t melt my face.

357. Buzz Cagney - May 11, 2012

#350 no, don’t help me, i’ll get it…… a frog, right? :))

358. Star Trek Jeff - May 11, 2012

People we have to remember that this is the alternate universe and the way Khan can be introduced will probably be completely different than in space seed, thus the story could be completely original even though we see a reintroduce character. I am looking forward to it.

359. Guy from Berlin - May 11, 2012

villians, villains, villains, villians … what is Star Trek about?

360. Mark Lynch - May 11, 2012

Villains, apparently.. ;-)

361. Shannon Nutt - May 11, 2012

It may not be a REMAKE, Bob, but if the villian is Khan, it most certainly IS a REHASH.

REHASH – To present again in a different form.

362. Charla - May 11, 2012

#319 Ahmed yes I agree with you- We wont see that in the future lol. I hope things look up for the next one though. (Won’t talk about politics no more per rules of this site :D )

363. Greenberg - May 11, 2012

Don’t model yourselves on the Dark Knight. What you’ll have is an amazing villain who steals the show so convincingly that you don’t care what happens to the hero, and you’re almost begging the villain to kill the love interest.

364. CJS - May 11, 2012

It may not be a REMAKE, Bob, but if the hero is James T. Kirk, it most certainly is a REHASH.

365. Lostrod - May 11, 2012

#281

“What I could never figure out is how George W. Bush got a second term in office.”

My guess is more people voted for him … :)

Regards.

366. rm10019 - May 11, 2012

365 – That is what they would like you to believe…. Otherwise the system is rigged.

367. B.T. Dubbs - May 11, 2012

remember the days when you could walk into a movie like, say Empire Strikes Back and hear, “I am your father!’ and be like :O

368. THX-1138 - May 11, 2012

I’m not going to read all the comments. But I’ll put in my vote that doesn’t mean anything to anyone but me:

I dearly hope Cumberbatch is playing a completely new character. I have no desire to watch someone else’s take on classic characters, outside of the original crew. I was under the impression that the reason to set this version of Star Trek in the new universe was in order to tell new stories. Yes, I get that there might be new twists on old plotlines, but really, that’s not actually a new story. I don’t feel like spending my money to take my whole family out to a movie to watch someone elses take on a classic story. I can just pop in my DVD and watch the story I’ve been given. i still want to know what the point of resetting the universe was just to tell the same story.

And the comparisons to superhero movies don’t work for me. I don’t really get into superhero movies to begin with. I find them entertaining but generally after one viewing I never watch them again. So comparing Khan to the Joker for me doesn’t work. I don’t care to watch how many times the hero can defeat the same villain.

Like I said, I hope they don’t do Khan. They may not be doing Khan. But if they are, unless it’s the best Star Trek movie of all time, I may give it a pass.

369. Amish Electrician - May 11, 2012

this is funny

http://entertainment.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/11/11658238-fans-declare-in-lmfao-parody-that-theyre-trekkies-and-we-know-it?lite

370. Paul - May 11, 2012

@ Boborci

What is obvious to most of us is Khan is in the movie otherwise surely you would tell us otherwise as the negativity is a little damaging to the movie as most ST fans do not really want to see Khan ever again played by anyone else.

Sorry but thats the way it is if you have included him as a major character fans will be divided about this issue.

Perhaps you could ask JJ for permission to clarify as us good people are the ones who will make this film a success & allow another to be made by you in a few years time!!!

Thank You

371. Jenna - May 11, 2012

369. Love it. Thanks for the link.

372. Daoud - May 11, 2012

Khan, but not as we know him. His post 2233-life, but not as we know it.
.
That’s my takeaway from this.
.
Plus, between 2233 and 2259 (presumably the year of the sequel), there is 26 years of backstory potentially in this twisted Neroverse. Maybe the destruction of the Kelvin caused a chain of events that led to Botany Bay being discovered earlier… or such that it didn’t run out of power and was propelled into the Ceti Alpha system. Khan’s already then been working for N years.

373. Whalien - May 11, 2012

I’m no longer convinced Khan is the villain in this film. I think Khan is a red herring.

374. Neil24 - May 11, 2012

I think they originally had Khan in mind, which was why the early casting rumors were focused on Hispanic actors, all of whom also looked older than Cumberbatch.

The choice of Cumberbatch means they’ve re-written the part. Cumberbatch looks like he should be eating tea and crumpets, not chai and samosas. He cannot possibly pass as someone of Indian origin, and JJ can’t get around that part of the canon.

My guess is that the role was re-written to a different eugenics leader onboard the Botany Bay who is revived. Remember how Khan was revived in the TOS Space Seed? The landing party arrival wakes the ship and triggers Khan’s wake-up, but it almost kills him.

What if the Botany Bay computer decided to open up the next leader in line, instead…Joaquin. Cumberbatch looks more like the TOS version of the character and is the right age…

375. Sybok'sSecretBrother - May 11, 2012

Ahh – I get it… the Talosians have them and it’s all an illusion based on the memories that Kirk has from the mind-meld with Spock Prime… ;p

376. rm10019 - May 11, 2012

375 – The Talosians would have cast Naveen Andrews in their illusions ;)

377. Karen Brown - May 11, 2012

We also have to recall, if I have this right, this is NOT simply ‘earlier in the same timeline’. This is an Alternate Universe, just like the Mirror Universe (well, except not evil). Which not only frees it up to be similar, but not exact, but also prevents that nasty paradox issue they totally ignore in Terminator. This means that every story can have a twist, whole different relationships, etc.

378. Jack - May 11, 2012

377. Exactly. Ostensibly the same timeline up until when Nero appeared at the start of Trek 09.

379. Tomi_SI - May 11, 2012

@ 306
i think bob confirmed whit his comment at:

234. boborci – May 10, 2012
231

*****

That Nimoy is in the movie! 231 asked for five stars and bob got him 5 *

380. Jamesspock1 - May 11, 2012

Khan now !!! No imagination, no originality, alwayse uses some else work and modifies it, it’s still some else work, not a remake, but still not original, and I can see the next movie will again use sombody else Idea again.

381. Walter Kozlowski - May 11, 2012

re·hash (r-hsh)
tr.v. re·hashed, re·hash·ing, re·hash·es
1. To bring forth again in another form without significant alteration: rehashing old ideas.

So if they drastically alter the story, it isn’t a rehash!

382. Walter Kozlowski - May 11, 2012

Re-use not Re-hash! All the main crew are in it along with the Enterprise, Star Fleet, and yes maybe even some previous adversaries. This is a altered reality so events may or may not happen in order or context to the prime timeline. That’s my take for what it’s worth!

383. Phil - May 11, 2012

Now, I like hash. It tends to be fatty and not good for you, but hey, if you have leftovers it’s generally good to not waste them.

So, am I talking about food, or movies?

384. psb2009 - May 11, 2012

@83 BobOrci – Thank you!
(sorry I’m late getting in on this)

385. CJS - May 11, 2012

Characters from TOS we know will be in the new Star Trek movie:

Kirk
Spock
McCoy
Scotty
Uhura
Sulu
Chekov
Pike

Apparently reusing 8 characters from previous episodes/movies is not a rehash, but using nine characters from previous episodes/movies is.

386. VZX - May 11, 2012

359: Star Trek is about a “wagon train to the stars.” Or, maybe a Captain Horatio Hornblower in space.

387. Walter Kozlowski - May 11, 2012

385. Yeah!

388. Anthony Pascale - May 11, 2012

danielcraigsmywookiebitchnow – May 10, 2012

I just am trying to wrap my brain around why same people just cant accept that we have a right to be disapointed if they are indeed reusing a character, instead of creating a new character
[snip]
And unless anthony has instituted some policy that we are not allowed to express that we are disapointed if it is Khan or that we hope that misinformation is indeed being spread about the actual villian we will see then everyone has a right to say whats on their mind of course as long as its not in a rude or mean way.

As noted at the bottom of the article, the above is my opinion, but i want to
hear yours and everyone else’s. And just scanning through this thread and others you can see the full spectrum of views, which is as it should be.

So you are right, the policy remains the same…everyone has a right to post here as long as they are respectful of each other. Moderation is never about the opinion.

As long as it is on topic and civil, it is welcome here at TM.

So if you want to write all about your opinion on everything in my above editorial is wrong…knock yourself out. But if you were to write about how what I said is right and everyone who disagrees is an idiot and more likely a fan of TWILIGHT, that is not allowed.

OK?

389. masteroforion - May 11, 2012

@105 – danielcraigsmywookiebitchnow

“And unless anthony has instituted some policy that we are not allowed to express that we are disapointed if it is Khan or that we hope that misinformation is indeed being spread about the actual villian we will see then everyone has a right to say whats on their mind of course as long as its not in a rude or mean way.”

I have never used profanity in any of my posts, never flamed another user, have nonetheless found many of my comments deleted here at TrekMovie.

This could be considered an off-topic post, in which case it’ll be deleted, I suppose. And that would be okay. (really)

Having been a moderator at a forum myself, I know the rules.

All the same I’ve never deleted anybody’s posts. It wasn’t necessary, and in fact we never had a problem at the forum beyond a few trolls who post a thread or two and end up leaving by themselves eventually.

This is a great website with great articles. I’m sure others feel the same. But there’s a kind of censorship here that goes beyond someone’s etiquette. You’ll see a lot of the same names, posting over and over again. Really going off topic. Flaming each other, etc (just look at this page). And you’ll never see those members get their posts removed.

Then I might come along and say: “I’m also disappointed about Kahn” —-> post removed.

I then look at the thousand or so posts, people acting completely childish and their posts are somehow immaculately preserved?

Shame, really. I could be a millionaire who wants to fund this website.

390. Simon - May 11, 2012

We got “original” adversaries & stories in THE FINAL FRONTIER and NEMESIS.

Sometimes “known” quantities are a *good* thing.

391. Khan was Framed! - May 11, 2012

My opinion has shifted from dead set against Khan, to cautiously optimistic that these guys can avoid the obvious pitfalls implied when taking on such a tremendous responsibility to the fans.

Despite my dissatisfaction with much of the discontinuity that they excused away with time travel in ST’09, I am confident that this time around they know better than to mess with the gospel.

My hope is that when Bob says it’s not a retelling of Space Seed, he is saying it’s not an EXACT retelling of Space Seed. Clearly some elements of that story must occur or must have occurred for Khan to be present.

I am starting to think this may take place after Space Seed & perhaps some unlucky Klingons give Khan a chance to escape Ceti Alpha. Or maybe this time around they find Botany Bay instead of Kirk.

in any case, if they go forward with a third film, I really hope they leave all this hockey time travel crap in the past & go forward with some strong original story telling.

The alternate timeline theory is one of the weakest writing devices in scifi & to me it reveals a lot about the confidence of the writers. Hopefully they are feeling more confident in their ability to write within the established Trek universe this time.

392. VZX - May 11, 2012

So, Tony, you are saying that you also feel that there is too much secrecy. I mean, they won’t even release names of characters or the movie’s title. This may be because it all has to do with Khan, but I think it’s a little silly.

It has always been a balance game with movies on giving too much info or not enough.

I enjoy reading Box Office Mojo’s articles on their opinion on how a movie is marketed, they are usually right on the money.

393. VZX - May 11, 2012

391: Yeah, I feel the same as you. I was also against Khan, but I opened my mind a little. I am still a little concerned, and I refuse to go to the theatre if I feel it might piss me off. But, it’s over a year away yet. So, here’s hoping it doesn’t suck!

394. Jack - May 11, 2012

370. “Perhaps you could ask JJ for permission to clarify as us good people are the ones who will make this film a success & allow another to be made by you in a few years time!!!”

Everybody here, me included, could boycott this film and it would still probably break records, or at least do as well as the last one. I’m not saying that our (varied) views aren’t important, but I don’t agree with (general sentiment) “unless you tell us x, y and z” nobody will see the movie.” How will knowing the villain a year in advance change anything?

Heck. I kind of thought Avengers would suck, because it’s been talked about for sooooo long. I’d hear about it and think “man, aren’t they done making that damned thing yet.” I was definitely aware of it, a bit too aware. And I assumed a bunch of things (it will suck because superhero ensembles always suck [?}, it will suck because it’s just a marketing ploy combining all these different franchises to make money, etc) based on, well, nothing at all, as all assumptions are. And then I kind of forgot about it until a week or two before, when it started getting incredible reviews (which happened with Star Trek last time, the good review part). So, I went and saw it first weekend. And it was terrific.

We were saying all this same stuff here before Trek 09 — “They haven’t released a full synposis!” They haven’t released enough photos”” Clearly it’s going to suck!” “They’re ignoring their base and this thing is going to bomb.”

We vote on Trek like everybody else does, by going to see it. I think previous productions made the mistake, after successes like Trek IV, of assuming that the hardcore fans were the reason for that success, and trying to play to them…

.

395. RJM - May 11, 2012

This movie is not about Khan at all, there is no Khan, you all have been sidetracked by the studio!

396. Phil - May 11, 2012

Assuming that what has been reported is verified by the studio at some point down the line, it’s going to come down to one of two things, if the production is award winning top shelf material, then the production staff will be hailed as geniuses for pulling it off. If the movie flops, it will be second guessed to the end of time. This is what the folks who are doing the happy dance over being “right” about guessing Khan seem to be missing, suggesting that going back to a familiar old well is gaurenteed box office gold. We should not assume this, kids (I have a 16 year old son at home) are reading Harry Potter, Hunger Games, Superhero stuff, and to a lesser extent, Star Wars. A production every five years does not a franchise make, and I can (and have) pointed out why going this direction is fraught with peril. I do hope I’m wrong, but at this point only time will tell.

397. Anthony Pascale - May 11, 2012

Let me make something clear. My argument is that character does not equal story. I cited comic book movies as an example, but that isn’t the point of my argument. So please don’t fixate on that. The point is that using Khan (or using any classic character, like Gary Mitchell, Gary Seven, Garth, etc) is not “a story,” they are just characters. And characters can be used in many different ways.

Now if the movie shows Kirk and crew encounter the Botany Bay, have Kirk welcome Khan on board, then have Khan seduce a sexy historian and try and take over the ship only to be foiled by that same historian save Kirk, leading to Khan being exiled on some planet…well that would be a rehash/remake and that would suck. And in 2013 I would say so here in my review of the movie. No matter how cool the effects and the action are, I don’t really want to see that movie either.

I guess I have some faith in these guys after getting to know them over the years to know that they also realize that would suck.

398. VZX - May 11, 2012

Hey Tony, are you going to put a countdown thingie on the site? It opens May 17th, so I guess we’re 372 days away.

399. T'Cal - May 11, 2012

Khan, you bloodsucker. You’re going to have to do your own dirty work now! Do you hear me? Do you?

400. Red Dead Ryan - May 11, 2012

#390.

Exactly! “Insurrection” had an “original” villain, and that didn’t work out either.

Original villains only seem to work on television.

TOS:

“Balance Of Terror”: Introduces Romulans

“Errand Of Mercy”: Introduces Klingons

“Space Seed”: Introduces Khan

TNG:

“Q Who?”: Introduces Borg

“The Wounded”: Introduces Cardassians

DS9:

“The Jem’ Hadar”: Introduces the Dominion, in particular, the Jem’ Hadar and Vorta

Voyager:

“Scorpion”: Introduces Species 8472

“Hunters”: Introduces the Hirogen

As you can see, those are some of the greatest Trek episodes ever. Because they featured new villains in a format (television) that allowed for backstory to be built, and later on, continued.

401. Anthony Pascale - May 11, 2012

…and yes I do think they take the secrecy thing too far. And I think it actually just makes these debates worse. Some people percieve secrecy as a bad thing as in “what do they have to hide.” In JJ’s case, he is obsessed with mystery and with preserving the integrity of the storytelling experience. It simply doesn’t compute for him that people want to know things about a story before experiencing it. It is just a difference in philosophies.

But that is the world we live in now, JJ is in charge and he is obsessed with secrets. I disagree, but what can I do…i am just some guy on the Internet.

402. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - May 11, 2012

One thing to remember. In Trek 2009 Nero’s Ship was captured by the Klingon’s. Now it is reasonable to assume that the Klingon’s at least downloaded Nero’s data base and as such. Know that the S.S Botney Bay is still out there with Khan and that he was an Augment. Someting which the Klingon’s tried to use which did not work a hundred years eariler during Captian Archer’s time and which caused them to loose their forhead’s and appear as they did during Tos time which was corrected by TMP. So the Klingon’s Have taken over the S.S Botney bay and will try and use Khan for there advantage.

403. Anthony Pascale - May 11, 2012

Guy from Berlin – May 11, 2012

villians, villains, villains, villians … what is Star Trek about?

No, and that again is exactly my point. What characters are in the movie are not what the movie is “about”. The plot and themes of the film will should stand on their own. And so I think it is just a bit of a distraction to be so obsessed over who the villain is or isn’t. But in the absence of other information, that is the focus these days I guess.

404. VZX - May 11, 2012

Have you seen JJ’s lecture on TED? He explains his obsession with secrets and the Mystery Box.

405. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - May 11, 2012

Hey Anthony. As I recall. We had these discussion’s a few years ago before Trek 2009 came out. Or am I in a Repeating Time loop!

406. Anthony Pascale - May 11, 2012

Commodore Mike

You are correct, this is not a new discussion. And my opinion has not changed. I have always said this, even before the 2009 movie came out. As noted above, whenever I have spoken at cons (VegasCon, Phoenix CC, Wondercon, SDCC) I have always said the same thing. So my view is not related to the recent reports, they only make them relevant again.

407. VZX - May 11, 2012

405: You guys were discussing Khan back then? I don’t remember.

408. Allenburch - May 11, 2012

316. Anthony Pascale – May 10, 2012 – “…i have some more sequel news cooking”

OK Anthony…Where is that news? (Going for my speed-walk now. Hop you have that news later.

ALSO boborci: LOL – Glad you had a good flight, (and that there was no exploding underwear)

409. Red Dead Ryan - May 11, 2012

Yeah, the secrecy thing is a bit ridiculous. Sure, we don’t need the plot synopsis, as that would give too much away, but why not just reveal the villain’s identity?

And if it is Khan, which appears likely, then folks like MJ and I are going to make J.J Abrams’ approach look naive and silly because we have been predicting its Khan for at least a year now.

410. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - May 11, 2012

You are correct Anthony. And as back then. I agree with you 100%.
#407. Yes. Khan was talked about. Not like this time though.

411. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - May 11, 2012

Hey Red Dead. Not just you and Harry. I amd Charla and a few other’s on the live chat have also said it would be Kahn. I hoped he would not be in it. But. Look’s like he is.

412. Walter Kozlowski - May 11, 2012

I trust Bob Orci and crew! I have people at work ask me what’s up with the sequel because they really enjoyed the last one. Many of them not Trekkers or even sci-fi fans. There are many things that make good Trek good but I think the relationships amongst the main crew is paramount. I think the concept of family is what everyone relates to.

413. Red Dead Ryan - May 11, 2012

And yeah, there were others, such as Hat Rick, MW, Charla, BB. etc. Thanks Commodore Mike.

But the number of us who have predicted Khan pale in comparison to those who insisted that it would be someone else. Indeed, there are still those who claim the villain isn’t going to be Khan, despite the mounting evidence.

414. Phil - May 11, 2012

@397. I agree, character does not equal story. However the context of the character does provide influence. The only way for that to not be an issue moving forward is to strip the character out of context. Do I have issues is Khan isn’t the bad guy, a meglomanic, an augment, etc? I don’t, but if others do then the question is, is this really Khan? This is where the reference to comic book villians falls flat. The Joker has a long history of doing dasterdly deeds – think about the pencil trick. did you flinch? But one of the better moments from TDK was the bomb on the ferry segment, because it made us think for a moment about right and wrong, and the tension there was thick enough to cut with a knife. This is what Cumberbatch needs to do with the Khan character, and JJ needs to do with the rest of the cast. If they can capture this level of intensity, they will have a hit on their hands. If not, it’s parody. By accident or design the bar is set really high on this movie – I do hope they pull it off.

415. Phil - May 11, 2012

I sell for a living, and I can’t pitch my products without telling people what they are. But Hollywood is a strange land, and JJ does pull off marketing his pictures with a high level of secrecy. It’s not what I would like, but then, I’m not making movies. I suspect, though, that after his first dud that might change a bit. And by dud I’m referring to profitability, not creativity, so all the JJ haters out there don’t get your undies in a knot over that…..

416. AJ - May 11, 2012

Funny aside:

The latest “Sherlock” has a scene where Cumberbatch, as Holmes, tells Watson: “if you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.” A direct quote from Holmes which was re-iterated by Spock in STVI and ST09.

Watson then goes on to call him “Spock.”

I’d call that a shout-out to ‘Trek’ from the UK.

I saw the UK airings, but I think this one is on come Sunday on PBS.

417. Walter Kozlowski - May 11, 2012

Unexpected=missed opportunities!

418. Montreal_Paul - May 11, 2012

If I might add my 2 Canadian cents in for a sec…

Anthony, you wrote that TWOK re-used a villain from the original series…. yes, but it wasn’t done as a rehash or remake of Space Seed. It picks up years later as a continuation of what happened after Khan had been left on the planet.

If JJ & company were to re-use a different villain and CONTINUE their story, I wouldn’t have a problem with it. In my opinion, re-using a character from the original series and just retelling that story a different way is a cop out and a rehash.

Using the Klingons, for example, isn’t a rehash in my books because their are so many stories that you can tell with an alien culture. Or even if they picked Kang or Kor or even Trelane and continued their story… I would be fine.

My problem with using Khan is that we had a “first encounter” with him. We know what he is like. We had a continuation of that story and know what kind of anger he had after so many years. What would we see differently? Khan is still bent on taking over the world but how he is awakened is different. So maybe he is killed in this timeline and we never get to see the Khan years later as in TWOK.

People keep comparing Khan to Joker… or Catwoman… or Zod… or etc. Completely different. Why? Because Batman or Superman had a history with these people. There were story after story about their meetings. Khan was not a foil for Kirk story after story. You want a good antagonist? Kang or Kor or even Trelane (would be like Picard and Q)… even Gary Seven to a lesser degree. Stories about what happened after their initial meetings… chasing after the Klingons and aha! It’s Kang wanting to destroy the Enterprise and Kirk! Am I making sense here? Do you know what I mean?

I’m actually writing a story about another adventure with Gary Seven … it does involve time travel but this time Gary Seven turns villain. But not for the sake of being a bad guy… he feels it is his only way to save humanity from itself.

419. Greg2600 - May 11, 2012

Sounds like a remake to me.

420. Walter Kozlowski - May 11, 2012

Would ” Q ” be the same ” Q ” in both realities? Yikes!

421. Dr. Image - May 11, 2012

Such a VAST Trek universe, and we’re getting Khan again? I hope not.

The really need to do more homework.
The way they should have for the FIRST movie.
Bring in the Okudas, at least…

422. ironhyde - May 11, 2012

We need to stop comparing Star Trek to superhero comics. Where the borg went wrong, is they were transformed from an idea, a personification of an issue, into enemies or villains. Khan was an idea too. Gene Roddenberry was brilliant in putting Worf on the bridge of the Enterprise-D and brilliant in his reasoning, because “Klingon’s can’t possibly be real if they are all bad”. In superhero comics we have heroes and villians because that’s what it is. In Star Trek, we have an idea, a though. And the way we explore that thought — Genesis, for example, which was life and death, birth, aging, loss, the value of the smallest blip of life over an entire civilization, or is it the needs of the many that prevail?… All of these are ideas. We can use Khan to explore an idea. But likening him to a classic villain is a popular culture lens and complete misfire. I want Star Trek back. I dont want Star Trek – Comic Movie Series Number 6! :P

423. James Cannon - Runcorn Trekkie UK - May 11, 2012

Nero was not a good villain. The fact you had to read his backstory in ‘Countdown’ and not see the Prison and other deleted scenes in the actual movie made his ‘goal’ and ‘purpose’ rather stupid.

If you take these scenes out of the story, why was he hanging around space for 25 years? LEAVE the scene in where he was in prison and show how he made his plan for revenge…

Bad decisions to cut these major scenes out even if it did shorten the running time for the suits.

424. LizardGirl - May 11, 2012

@415
I know right! That was amazing to hear him say that…it was like a sending off from the UK. Now there’s going to be Sherlock/Spock comparisons and debates. You know…Benedict would make a great Spock, just a errant thought (still love you Zach!).

425. Ahmed - May 11, 2012

@422. James Cannon – Runcorn Trekkie UK – May 11, 2012

“Nero was not a good villain. The fact you had to read his backstory in ‘Countdown’ and not see the Prison and other deleted scenes in the actual movie made his ‘goal’ and ‘purpose’ rather stupid.”

I will second that, I wasn’t impressed with Nero at all, I think he was the weakest point in the movie.

426. CmdrR - May 11, 2012

Wow. Nothing like a couple of Khan threads to wake this place out of its slumber.

Everyone now…. KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNN!!!

427. CmdrR - May 11, 2012

(music stab)

(echo: khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannn!!))

428. Dave - May 11, 2012

Enough already with fracking Khan there are other Villians Or even create a new one….

429. John - May 11, 2012

@ 426 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

430. MJ - May 11, 2012

@425. Ahmed, I agree with you all on Nero being a weak villan. What salvaged Nero was the great performance by Bana. He got lemons, and he made lemonade.

431. MJ - May 11, 2012

@418 “My problem with using Khan is that we had a “first encounter” with him. We know what he is like. We had a continuation of that story and know what kind of anger he had after so many years. What would we see differently? Khan is still bent on taking over the world but how he is awakened is different. So maybe he is killed in this timeline and we never get to see the Khan years later as in TWOK.”

So? It is an alernate Trek universe here, so of course it we play out differently? Not seeing your point at all?

432. Ziggy Rot - May 11, 2012

#243: Blofeld was SOMETIMES bald. He wasn’t bald in Diamonds Are Forever or Never Say Never Again, and the actor who portrayed him in the shadows in From Russia With Love and Thunderball wasn’t bald either. In fact, out of seven film appearances, he was only bald in three of them.

433. THX-1138 - May 11, 2012

It better be a helluva Khan story. If it is a Khan story.

If you do a “Eugenics War/Botany Bay” story and have Cumberbatch play Joquim (sorry about the spelling) you will disappoint a bunch of people who wanted to see Khan and not his henchman. If you do a Khan story that differs from the ones already told you are opening yourself up to a vocal fanbase that will pick it to shreds. And if you do a retelling of the Khan storylines that everyone is familiar with you will forever be compared to two classic stories that have already been told. And my opinion would be that you would always be telling the #2 or #3 best version.

Too slippery of a slope if you ask me.

434. Phil - May 11, 2012

@431. Yeah! He could be a shoe salesman. Or a janitor. Or a stay at home dad. All compelling stories, and I’m just sitting on the edge of my seat to see how they play out…

435. Montreal_Paul - May 11, 2012

@413 MJ

My point is that it will still be a “first encounter” Khan story – it would be a rehash of the TOS story if the Enterprise finds and awakens him. Been there, done that.

The only way I can see a fresh approach on a Khan story is if the Klingons (who have all the data from Nero’s ship’s computers) intentionally find and awaken him because they know he could be a great ally to them.

436. Jack - May 11, 2012

“It is reasonable to assume that the Klingon’s at least downloaded Nero’s data base and as such. Know that the S.S Botney Bay is still out there with Khan and that he was an Augment.”

Maybe. Or maybe Nero was often looking for a good signal to check Wikipedia like the rest of us.

It’s entirely possible — but would a Romulan mining ship (or any Romulan ship) carry detailed histories of federation encounters, or archives of federation, or even Romulan, news stories? How public would all this information have been, and even if it had been public (or collected by spies), would it be onboard? — or would they connect with the 24th century version of the internet for nonessentials. Unless Nero was a Terran history buff, and had a bunch of bookmarks…

Sorry, not trying to challenge you. I just think it’s an interesting idea.

437. Factchecker - May 11, 2012

Another villain….bent on taking control of the universe….destroying Earth or Starfleet or somesuch…

Can anyone remember when the Enterprise crew used to be explorers?

438. Kobayne - May 11, 2012

Anthony, I love the site and think it’s nice people can come here and express opinions.

When you get the forums running I really like the idea of ‘Bob’s Conspiracy Corner’ =)

439. Michael Hall - May 11, 2012

@ 183 dmduncan:

“Michael, I confess I also don’t see much in common between Top Gun (a film I detest) and ST.09.”

Always a pleasure, dmduncan. :-) For the record, I never meant to say that Trek ’09 was a literal remake of TOP GUN, which is why I used the qualifier “even to the extent”–my point was that I felt it was likely the next film would be even less a remake of “Space Seed” or TWOK than Trek ’09 was a remake of TG. Still, if you think about it (and you won’t have to think too deeply), Tom Cruise’s character arc in that film parallels that of NuKurk in Trek ’09 pretty closely. He’s a rebel without a clue: reckless and with a chip on his shoulder the size of Ceres, apparently due to some unresolved Daddy issues. He’s got a best friend/sidekick who both idolizes and is exasperated by him (“Gee, Mav/Jim, what kind of mess have you gotten us into now?”). And in the course of the story he learns to work with a hated rival to achieve a goal that he previously wasn’t enough of a team player to appreciate the importance of.

(BTW, if you haven’t seen Quentin Tarantino expound on the hidden subtext in TG that dare not speak its name, you haven’t lived. Check it out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzY9a-WmE6o )

Now, to my way of thinking, while such a portrayal of Young Kirk does not directly contradict anything that came before, it’s a lazy misreading of the character that’s ultimately a lot less interesting and counterintuitive than the background details (bookish and put-upon at the Academy, caught up in a political revolution at the age of 14) provided by TOS. That’s not meant specifically as a dig at Mr. Orci, btw, since that also would have been Harve Bennett’s take on Kirk in his own STARFLEET ACADEMY project. And while I generally share your distase for TOP GUN, it does have it over Trek ’09 in one important respect: in the end Cruise’s Pete Mitchell actually learns that winning the trophy by being the best is a lot less important than performing the very important life-and-death tasks he’s been trained for. Aside from discovering that the “Green-blooded bastard” wasn’t so bad after all, I can’t think of a single thing that Kirk (or the audience) learned in Trek ’09.

.

440. Jack - May 11, 2012

431. Maybe he got awakened earlier by a little blind girl who changed his views on human nature, and he joined Starfleet, tried to hide his abilities and tried to quietly make the universe a better place… until he runs into his old pals, who peer pressure him into becoming a dick again (you see, in the TOS timeline, he just took over earth, and the enterprise so the other supermen would like him). He’d try to convince them that he wasn’t Khan at all, but just a guy named Nigel, and well, this wouldn’t work and he’d get sucked back in…

Maybe the ship got it by something, Khan was nearly killed, and the only survivor — and injured so badly that he lost his memory and wakes up thinking he’s Sherlock Holmes, because the Tellarite nurse who found him who sat by his side every day read him Conan Doyle. They fall in love. He gets a job helping out on her tribble farm. He’s minding his business, living his life, until the Enterprise stops by one day looking for directions, and Marla McGivers sees him, recognizes him and, well, a bitter love triangle ensues…

The terrible possibilities abound.

441. Ted C - May 11, 2012

Why is it so hard to type out the word “conventions”?

442. Jack - May 11, 2012

“Aside from discovering that the “Green-blooded bastard” wasn’t so bad after all, I can’t think of a single thing that Kirk (or the audience) learned in Trek ‘09.”

Uh, you can learn a lot of important stuff by hanging out in hot girls’ dorm rooms?

443. Michael Hall - May 11, 2012

“@183. Agreed. Dexter has some interesting ideas now and then”

Whew. Color me shocked. But I do appreciate the compliment, backhanded as it is. :-)

444. Michael Hall - May 11, 2012

“Uh, you can learn a lot of important stuff by hanging out in hot girls’ dorm rooms?”

Point to Jack.

445. Salt Monster - May 11, 2012

Anthony: While I have no issue with the new Star Trek movie or any Star Trek movie including a known villain character. I question, first, why people (including yourself) keep comparing the Star Trek films to Comic Book Superhero films. They are not and have never been the same thing. I loved The Dark Knight and The Avengers (for different reasons). But Star Trek films are not a comic book adaptation. Second, I question the need for a villain at all. But I’m probably in the minority there. I loved TWOK but I also loved The Voyage Home and thought out of all the films that one best captured the spirit and thoughtfulness of the series while at the same time being enormously popular and not having a traditional bad guy villain. It went outside the box, a place Star Trek films have never gone since.

My Two Cents. With that said, I’m looking forward to the new film.

446. CJS - May 11, 2012

The Botany Bay, two centuries from launch, is marked for salvage by a colony ship bound for Ceti Alpha V (a world not colonized in the original timeline, but the destruction of Vulcan has forced the Federation to rearrange the colonization protocols in order to provide humanitarian assistance to the Vulcan survivors). A 23rd century equivalent of the Dutch East India Company, run by Peter Weller, is commissioned by the Federation to establish this colony. Upon performing salvage of the BB, the surviving Eugenic Wars fugitives are revived. Weller, realizing the value of these modified humans to his company’s bio-warfare division…

Oh, wait. That’s the plot of Aliens. Never mind.

447. MJ - May 11, 2012

@439. WTF? So Spock is Iceman? So Tom Skeritt’s character is Pike? I suppose that Kelley McGillis is Uhura? Again, WTF? Huh???? LOL

Dexter, usually your posts slamming Trek 2009 have a bit of logic in them then is worth addressing, but I must say that I have to agree with Orci, Red Dead Ryan, DM Duncan, and probably most everyone else reading your posts here on Top Gun being like Trek 2009 — we just don’t see it???

Dex, I recommend you pretend you never wrote that post and just start over with a new idea here. If you do that, then we will pretend that we never read it. Kapish?

448. Michael Hall - May 11, 2012

“And may i say that your use of italics is so …. Deep.”

And may I say that such issues of style over substance are the occupational hazard of, shall we say, a certain type of screenwriter. And yet–

“Wonderful thing about Obama is that he is living proof that no matter the color of your skin, or where you were born, anyone can grow up to be a puppet of the militaryindustrialpharmaceutical complex.”

On this, at least, we’re definitely agreed. Bless you. :-)

449. Aaron - May 11, 2012

I am glad boborci takes the time to interact with the fans… I wish JJ would do more or that. It goes a long way towards helping with some of the more negative elements that are always about.

450. Walter Kozlowski - May 11, 2012

Wasn’t it the studio execs at Paramount the first to compare Batman Begins as a template of sorts for the reboot???

451. Michael Hall - May 11, 2012

” WTF? So Spock is Iceman? So Tom Skeritt’s character is Pike?

I’d say those character archtypes fill pretty much the same function in the plot, yes. If you disagree, why not try cogently arguing otherwise?

452. Jack - May 11, 2012

444. ;) Like young James T. Kirk, I’m always looking for One To Grow On.

Do you use HTML code for the italics? I’ve been afraid it wouldn’t work, and I’d end up with visible brackets.

453. RJM - May 11, 2012

Not only will there not be a Khan in this movie, but the title will not say Star Trek at all!

454. Michael Hall - May 11, 2012

@ 452 Jack.

Yes. It works fine, so long as you bracket each individual paragraph.

455. THX-1138 - May 11, 2012

“Wonderful thing about Obama is that he is living proof that no matter the color of your skin, or where you were born, anyone can grow up to be a puppet of the militaryindustrialpharmaceutical complex.”

Absolutely. Just look at George Bush, senior and junior.

456. AJ - May 11, 2012

One thing attentive posters must remember is, in ST09, Nero was not captured by the Klingons. He was in the DVD/BR outtakes, but they were expunged from the film. In the JJverse The Narada was never captured, nor were its memory banks ever scanned.

All we know about the Klingons is that 47 ships were lost to the Narada, and that repairing the ship and determining Spock’s entry point were accomplished while they ‘waited 25 years.’

If ST12 is a roaring success, and JJ decides to properly restore the Klingon scenes into a new director’s cut of ST09, then we can slip those bits back in to JJverse canon.

457. VZX - May 11, 2012

Hey Montreal Paul: You would be right if it is, in fact, a Khan-origin story. Orci stated that it is not a re-hash, so wouldn’t that mean the movie will not be a Khan origin story?

Of course, any retelling of how Khan was awoken could be defined as a rehash, so I’m thinking that Orci simply meant it is not a rehash of “Space Seed” exactly.

458. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - May 11, 2012

Ok, Nero was captured by the Klingon’s. So they could have downloaded the data base of Nero’s ship and after going over it and looked at the history of the Federation from the Tos timeline they could try and use that with Khan and maybe a few other Tos Bad guy’s. Yes thig’s would have changed. But certen event’s would still happen. They would know that Khan would still be out there and they would find him and try to use him for there need’s and also they would know about the Dooms day machine and Nomad or any number of Tos bad guy’s or from anywhere in the future. With that there is some good stories that could be told.

459. VZX - May 11, 2012

I don’t see Pine-Kirk as Maverick. I see him more similar to Will Hunting.

460. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - May 11, 2012

Also. Since the Klingon’s experimented with the Augment’s once before then they may try and use Khan for there purpose. So they try and capture Khan.

461. Daoud - May 11, 2012

@446. I think you just hit paydirt. Prime Spock was headed for “New Vulcan” at the end of ST09. You don’t think… New Vulcan’s in the CETI ALPHA SYSTEM, do you?
.
Thus, the Vulcan diaspora finds the Botany Bay long ahead of the Prime Universe timeframe of 2267. Finding it in 2259 instead makes some differences, yes?
.
This would explain a simple reason to have inserted Prime Spock again…. filming a “bridge conference call” to the Enterprise. Nimoy’s Spock explaining about Khan?
.
Except when the Enterprise gets to the Botany Bay, there’s no one on board. They were taken off by someone else some years before? Who knows! Maybe those crazy Joaquin ideas aren’t so bad?
.
These boots are made for Joaquin
Who’s se-cret-ly killed off Khan
These boots will soon be walkin’
All over Jim Kirk’s lawn….

462. MJ - May 11, 2012

@451 “I’d say those character archtypes fill pretty much the same function in the plot, yes. If you disagree, why not try cogently arguing otherwise?”

Just trying to give you an easy way of this one to save face.

Michael!…Bubbie! I am your White Knight!

463. MJ - May 11, 2012

@459 “I don’t see Pine-Kirk as Maverick. I see him more similar to Will Hunting.”

Good point. And not only that, if we are suppose to believe this parallel’s Top Gun, then where is Pike’s Kelly McGillis? And why doesn’t McCoy die to the movie (like Goose did) so that Kirk/Maverick can mature? And who in Trek is parallel to Michael Ironside’s character? The list goes on and on.

I must say though, poking this bogus house of cards down is the most fun I have had on this site in awhile.

Star Trek 2009 = Top Gun = WTF??? = LOL

464. dmduncan - May 11, 2012

456. AJ – May 11, 2012

One thing attentive posters must remember is, in ST09, Nero was not captured by the Klingons. He was in the DVD/BR outtakes, but they were expunged from the film. In the JJverse The Narada was never captured, nor were its memory banks ever scanned.

All we know about the Klingons is that 47 ships were lost to the Narada, and that repairing the ship and determining Spock’s entry point were accomplished while they ‘waited 25 years.’

***

Not exactly true.

Evidence of Nero’s time imprisoned still exists. When he first appears in the new timeline, Nero has two complete ears. 25 years later, the tip of one ear is gone and he has bite mark scars across his head.

In the comics, I believe that’s where he was bit by the Klingon dog thingy.

Also, during the mind meld with Kirk, I DO believe we get a glimpse of Nero that was shot while he was imprisoned. It was a sample of a scene that was removed. But again — evidence.

The movie is fast, but it packs a lot of detail in that short space of time when things are whizzing by.

465. AJ - May 11, 2012

dmduncan:

We’ll have to ask the ‘Don of Khan,’ Mr. Orci, when he re-appears, for an opinion.

The scene where Nero is lying down, ostensibly on the Narada, and we hear “Ayel says it’s time!” is actually footage from the deleted Rura Penthe scene, where he’s got his sketches right by his head.

Kirk shoudln’t have ‘Nero at Rura Penthe’ memories, as he wasn’t there. I know the scene you mean, but I can’t place it in ST09. I think it’s part of his ‘we’ve been waiting 25 years’ monologue.

466. NCM - May 11, 2012

276. boborci – May 10, 2012

“Wonderful thing about Obama is that he is living proof that no matter the color of your skin, or where you were born, anyone can grow up to be a puppet of the militaryindustrialpharmaceutical complex.”

Publicly snubbing an invitation seems a bit impolite, but somehow less so when followed by an explanation. Guess there are no good guys in Washington–or Hollywood, depending on one’s (broad stroke) beliefs.

When Bob’s forum opens, I’d love to learn who he thinks was the last American President he’d have been interested in joining for dinner. Until then, treading away from politics.

467. MJ - May 11, 2012

@464. Does the Alan Dean Foster novelization cover the Klingon parts of the story more than the movie. If so, then it is canon, as it is the official movie novelization.

468. dmduncan - May 11, 2012

Continuing from 464:

And although there is not enough IN the film to precisely triangulate Nero’s post incursion whereabouts and doings, and while I am drawing on outside knowledge about the film to understand those visual cues — that is still what they mean, and even in the absence of that outside knowledge which the average viewer will not possess, those cues still sketch out details of an unknown situation that tell you he wasn’t merely floating about in space waiting for Spock.

There is, in those cues, the glimpse of an explanation that we do not grasp, but which still creates the sense of a mystery which is not Nero just waiting around.

Some people may want to know more explicitly. But I think that’s JJ’s style, and I think it works.

469. AJ - May 11, 2012

“In the comics, I believe that’s where he was bit by the Klingon dog thingy.”

Fifi Rebozo?

470. Michael Hall - May 11, 2012

“Just trying to give you an easy way of this one to save face.”

Thanks. At this point, I have little to save, though.

“Michael!…Bubbie! I am your White Knight!”

Heh. “We’re not really so different, you and I. . .”

“Good point. And not only that, if we are suppose to believe this parallel’s Top Gun, then where is Pike’s Kelly McGillis? And why doesn’t McCoy die to the movie (like Goose did) so that Kirk/Maverick can mature? And who in Trek is parallel to Michael Ironside’s character? The list goes on and on.”

Here, I’ll help: nowhere in TOP GUN, including the directors’ cut and post-credits, is there so much as a single shot of a caged tribble. You’re right–WTF was I thinking? (OTOH I have it on good authority that Val Kilmer’s Iceman actually had the middle name of “Keenser,” so perhaps my point still holds after all.)

471. MJ - May 11, 2012

@466 “Publicly snubbing an invitation seems a bit impolite, but somehow less so when followed by an explanation. Guess there are no good guys in Washington–or Hollywood, depending on one’s (broad stroke) beliefs.”

Well it’s not like Bob was an immigrant to this country, got to go to school here, become a citizen, marry a native, and reap the benefits of our system and become successful here, right?

;-)

472. dmduncan - May 11, 2012

465: “Kirk shoudln’t have ‘Nero at Rura Penthe’ memories, as he wasn’t there.”

True, but that could have come from Spock who got it from Nero and relayed it to Kirk in the mind meld.

I THINK that’s where it occurs but since you are disputing it, now I’m not so sure and will have to check.

473. Endeavour Crew - May 11, 2012

Waiting for Anthony’s new info………………………

(Crickets chirping)

And Bob if you’re reading this………would go to a fundraiser for Kahn????

474. MJ - May 11, 2012

@473. I think the new info is the Alice Eve story.

475. AJ - May 11, 2012

468:

In actual reality, dmduncan, I remember wondering in the theater what the hell Nero was doing for 25 years.

Logically, what he would have done, for his crew’s sake at least, is gone back to Romulus for some R&R/resettling, and presented the Narada to the government as a great gift, warned them about the impending singularity, and allowed the Empire to go medieval on the Feds as a 24th century-equipped high-tech fleet. Within 25 years, the Roms would have decimated the Feds, and Spock’s arrival would be a non-event.

How ’bout them apples?

476. MJ - May 11, 2012

Here is wondering if the Klingons discover the Botany Bay in this movie?

477. JohnnyB807 - May 11, 2012

The whole “Good Orci vs. The-Bad-Orci-Doppleganger” thing in the comments shown above reminds me of TOS episode, “The Enemy Within” … I wonder who would have won ??? Good Orci? Bad Orci? Hmmm …

478. THX-1138 - May 11, 2012

If you have to rely on something that appears in a comic book to explain how the Klingons would know of Khan’s existence you are grasping at straws.

Really small straws.

From a long ways away.

And perhaps not reaching them.

Because they are the wrong straws.

And you might have short arms.

Or you’re wearing oven mitts.

479. NCM - May 11, 2012

471. MJ – May 11, 2012

Well it’s not like Bob was an immigrant to this country, got to go to school here, become a citizen, marry a native, and reap the benefits of our system and become successful here, right? ;-)

————————

Maybe that’s not enough. Maybe he should be President! Imagine the learning curve:-)! Seriously, I don’t mean to insult one of the very few script writers I have any interest in and I don’t begrudge him a bit of his success–nice to be reminded that even if we’re no longer top dog in just about any category, this country still holds such promise:).

480. kmart - May 11, 2012

451,

Keep in mind that TOP GUN underwent some heavy surgery before the cameras rolled. Cash & Epps had written Michael Ironside’s character and Skerritt’s as being THE SAME GUY – just written as a complex guy, which had to be simplified and split off to suit SOMEBODY’s dumb demand … maybe because it made that character more interesting than the lead (not a lot of work to accomplish that, m’thinks.) BTW, I read a really long interview with one of those screenwriters about 20 years back, and it made me realize you can’t always judge screenwriters by their movies. This guy sounded intelligent but acknowledged throughout the interview that on most big projects (TG, DICK TRACY & probably LEGAL EAGLES, since those are the pics I remember them being associated with), you’re only going to get worse as the rewriting goes on, because it isn’t enhancement, it is dilution that happens (or words to that effect.)

If you can put two abramstrek characters together so they add up to something worthwhile, then lets hope they are doing ENEMY WITHIN, so somebody can pull a FLY and meld them into an interesting whole. .

481. dmduncan - May 11, 2012

478. THX-1138 – May 11, 2012

Actually, if you read my posts more closely you’ll see that not only do I know it, but I actually point out there’s more to it than that.

482. dmduncan - May 11, 2012

475. AJ – May 11, 2012

468:

In actual reality, dmduncan, I remember wondering in the theater what the hell Nero was doing for 25 years.

***

So did I. All I noticed was that he must’ve hard a hard time along the way.

483. Christopher Roberts - May 11, 2012

I was always confident that this wouldn’t be a remake.

I also recall Simon Pegg saying somekind of comment online, months ago, along the lines of him not having read anything involving Khan?

Of course, he might not have seen the whole script at the time…

484. dmduncan - May 11, 2012

Bottom line is just because JJ wasn’t unambiguous about it doesn’t mean Nero was roaming free. And he DID meet the barest criteria by showing us hints that he had some kind of trouble. In the same way that if you meet someone in real life without knowing anything about him, you might get an accurate impression that the person did hard time.

Watching the movie I could not say Nero had been imprisoned for 25 years, but I did get the sense that there was a story there. The missing ear tip and scars did that all by themselves.

485. MJ - May 11, 2012

@479. Yea, and Bob actually reinforces to me why this is still such a great country. Look at the benefits he as reaped as an immigrant, and now he gets to pontificate his wacky politics and turn down visits to dine with the President! Those sorts of freedoms are exactly what make this country so great.

So when I hear Bob’s wacky political stuff, and hear that he spurns Obama, it reinforces to me that we are still living the dream of the Founding Fathers, warts and all.

486. Anthony Pascale - May 11, 2012

Alice Eve thing is first of three sequel news bits cooking

487. NCM - May 11, 2012

Waiting on that third course–will it be desert, er, dessert? Saving the best for last, I hope. Thanks, Anthony.

@485: Agreed, MJ. However, Bob might have mentioned that the invitation came with a $40,000 price tag–must I read the news before I read TM threads!? Snub accusation retracted.

488. MJ - May 11, 2012

@487 “Bob might have mentioned that the invitation came with a $40,000 price tag.”

Well, yes, there is that. :-)

489. AJ - May 11, 2012

Why didn’t they cast Bob Orci as Khan? A Mexican already in our midst who can read the script out of his very brain.

490. Johnny - May 11, 2012

@ 276. boborci – May 10, 2012

Wonderful thing about Obama is that he is living proof that no matter the color of your skin, or where you were born, anyone can grow up to be a puppet of the militaryindustrialpharmaceutical complex.

Except there’s no proof of this anywhere. Sure, there plenty of conspiracy theories being created and fueled by the likes of Alex Jone’s InfoWars.com, but in reality… these theories are all flawed and full of GAPING holes. There is no solid proof of any of them — just news reports, photos, or other pieces of info that theorists twist into stories that they are not.

Just look at the death of Andrew Breitbart. He’d been promising “damning” video of President Obama — but collapsed and died the very day (or the night before) it was to be revealed. InfoWars ran with the “Breitbart was assasinated by the gov’t so he couldn’t reveal the Obama video” angle, initially. Until of course, the video was released and it was a complete non-issue — not “damning” in the slightest. And then it became clear that he’d been dealing with major heart issues shortly before his death. All conspiracy theories are like this — with flimsy evidence at best. The MAJOR exception is Roswell. No way that was a weather balloon. :;

ANYWAYS…

Back to Star Trek, here. I’ll repeat what I’ve said in past discussions. This is J.J. Abrams and co. we’re talking about. We all know how secretive Bad Robot is. So what if the secrecy surrounding this Star Trek Sequel is part of the mystery? What if they don’t plan on revealing the villain until the movie actually comes out? You know… so they could have an “Oh sh*t, it’s Khan!” revelation inside the theater. Wouldn’t that be cool?

I really, really applaud Abrams/Orci/Kurtzman, and everyone involved with Star Trek and Fringe, for the level of secrecy they’re able to maintain. It’s really quite refreshing to go into the theater or turn on the TV and know virtually NOTHING about what we’re going to see beforehand. Too often do movie trailers reveal the entire story these days. Kudos.

491. Basement Blogger - May 11, 2012

Today, it seems that TrekMovie has backed down from its strong statements that the antagonist is Khan. (April 30, 2012) So to Jack and Montreal Paul, I now say you are correct that TrekMovie has backed away from Khan. I note they have not retracted the story.

I still say based on the evidence, and Anthony’s sources that the villain is Khan. I could be wrong but am confident that it is.

492. Jack - May 11, 2012

491. Hello sir. I never said, or meant to say, that Anthony backed away from Khan. He just added that bit that it hadn’t been officially confirmed by Bad Robot or Paramount.

Yep, you’re probably right. We’ll see.

From Variety’s review of Battleship. This sounds vaguely familiar…

“Cut to Oahu, Hawaii, where jobless layabout Alex (Kitsch) is celebrating his 26th birthday in a dive bar with disapproving older brother Stone (Alexander Skarsgard), a straitlaced Navy recruit. After Alex commits a drunken infraction designed to impress leggy physiotherapist Samantha (Brooklyn Decker), Stone issues a final-straw demand: Alex is to join him in the Navy. In seemingly no time at all, Alex has graduated to lieutenant level despite equally feckless behavior in uniform,”

493. THX-1138 - May 11, 2012

#481 dmduncan

The point is if you are using a plot contrivance from a comic book that was never elaborated on in the movie to explain how the Klingons would have any future knowledge of Khan’s existence you are grasping at straws. Plus none of you’re newly initiated to Star Trek audience is going to know where the source for any of this information is coming from seeing how no connection between Nero and the Klingons is made save for the fact that they mention he destroyed a bunch of their ships. Sure all the geeks may know the backstory but the intended audience, that is, a fresh new bunch of Trek fans, will be in the dark because none of that appeared on screen.

494. MJ - May 11, 2012

The only thing I see Anthony and Trekmovie.com potentially distancing themselves from is their inference (or maybe our inference from reading their stories) that Nimoy will be in in the film?

495. dmduncan - May 11, 2012

439. Michael Hall – May 11, 2012

Always a pleasure, dmduncan. :-) For the record, I never meant to say that Trek ‘09 was a literal remake of TOP GUN, which is why I used the qualifier “even to the extent”

***

First: Same here! Second, you called ST.09 a “virtual remake” of TOP GUN.”

I’ll give you that both Maverick and Kirk had fathers that died in the line of duty. And I’ll even throw in the bonus that they both rode motorcycles. Which you didn’t even mention. But I don’t want anyone accusing me of being a cheapskate. So I’m throwing that in too.

As for the rest, I can’t say it isn’t there…but it’s there in not exactly but sort of the way that you can take a love sonnet and get rid of all the letters except the ones that if you put them all together would spell “I hate you bitch,” and then call the sonnet the rant of a malicious madman.

There is so much that separates ST.09 and its characters from that early specimen of music video movie making which you compared it to, that the comparison you make is more creative (to me at least) than obvious.

It’s like comparing Conan The Barbarian (1982) to Apocalypse Now because both had warriors sent on a mission to kill a powerful and charismatic warrior-king, who each then take the place of the king they have killed.

Technically true, but while I love both movies, one is really great while the other is really good. Which proves that you can illustrate the same idea in a variety of ways, some more sophisticated than others…

…and ST.09 was packed with a lot more information that I had to keep track of to understand what was going on than the entirety of Top Gun. Which for me makes the comparison a hard one to accept.

And part of that is due to how JJ makes movies, which doesn’t underestimate your intelligence — but expects you to have some.

First Nero has two whole ears. 25 years later, for some reason Nero is in a big fight with Klingons and he destroys 47 Klingon ships. Now he has a missing ear tip and bite marks on his head. Later we get a glimpse of him somewhere during that time period, and he looks like a man under siege.

Those little details are not accidental. They are a sign of careful thought.

And though they do not tell you exactly what happened to Nero during all that time, they do give you enough of an idea to know that he wasn’t just hanging out in space checking his watch every fifteen minutes waiting for Spock.

The movie expects you to know from that admittedly sparse information that there IS a story there. And because it does have that expectation, it isn’t underthrowing the ball to give an audience of weak batters a better shot at a hit. JJ is expecting us to make do with what little he gives us, not because he’s a mean spirited infomiser, but because he thinks that’s all we really need.

It’s a compliment to us. I think so, anyway.

496. dmduncan - May 11, 2012

493. THX-1138 – May 11, 2012

#481 dmduncan

The point is if you are using a plot contrivance from a comic book that was never elaborated on in the movie to explain how the Klingons would have any future knowledge of Khan’s existence you are grasping at straws.

***

No, don’t think I am. I know what was in the movie and what was not. Also, I didn’t mention Khan in this context and I don’t really know why you are bringing him up, or what it has to do with anything I’ve actually said with respect to my responses to AJ.

As for the rest of your post I don’t really think that’s important for reasons I explain in 495. Not knowing all the backstory detail does NOT = problem.

I think only fans have an obsessive need for detail. More than is good for them to have, probably.

497. moauvian waoul - aka: seymour hiney - May 11, 2012

495. dmduncan. Sorry to jump in here, but wasn’t that more the result of the editing process?

498. Jack - May 11, 2012

BTW. Watching Fringe now. It has one of the more disturbing scenes I’ve seen in, well, awhile. Fantastically done — it was something that could have ended up being fairly routine and, instead, it was made terrifically creepy.

499. THX-1138 - May 11, 2012

“First Nero has two whole ears. 25 years later, for some reason Nero is in a big fight with Klingons and he destroys 47 Klingon ships. Now he has a missing ear tip and bite marks on his head. Later we get a glimpse of him somewhere during that time period, and he looks like a man under siege.

Those little details are not accidental. They are a sign of careful thought.

And though they do not tell you exactly what happened to Nero during all that time, they do give you enough of an idea to know that he wasn’t just hanging out in space checking his watch every fifteen minutes waiting for Spock.”

Maybe during the fight with the Klingons Nero fell off of one of those ridiculous catwalks and his ears got munched. Or maybe since he was apparently a basket case after seeing his planet, along with his wife, destroyed he mutilated himself the day after he exited the wormhole thingy. Perhaps he found a Horta and it burnt off the tips of his ears.

My point is that it’s all just speculation without exposition. When does the audience get any of this backstory or filler story or whatever term you would like to use? In the next movie? How much time are we going to spend on all of that which could have been included in the last movie but was instead cut? To me it’s like building a house from the roof down.

Which is why I don’t think Khan is in this movie. Because if he is it is a ridiculous waste of exposition to film something that could have possibly explained events in the sequel only to cut them from the movie.

500. THX-1138 - May 11, 2012

And dmduncan, to begin with you presume that the first post I wrote, to which you responded, was in fact directed at you.

It actually wasn’t. But I’m game for discussion. While I have idle time to engage in the diversion.

501. dmduncan - May 11, 2012

@497: Absolutely. Editing is one of the most important filmmaking skills. You can turn a movie into an unwatchable piece of crap with editing alone, no matter how good every other individual component is. Directors have a lot to do with that, and I think JJ drove the pace of ST.09 which resulted in the compression of a lot of information he expected you to “get.”

So that’s why I’m singling him out in this case.

502. THX-1138 - May 11, 2012

And if you care to, in post #433 I point to some reasons that I feel the Khan story is a bad idea. Just to give you and idea of where it that I am coming from on the whole issue.

503. Red Dead Ryan - May 11, 2012

Nero had parts of his ears bitten off by a targ at Rura Pethe. It was covered in the “Nero” comics, which explore some of the twenty-five year gap, specifically, how he escaped from the prison colony. While it isn’t “officially” canon, it pretty much is since it takes place between the Kelvin encounter and when the Enterprise first encounters the Narada.

So you can pretty much take that to the bank. He was bitten by targs. That is how is ears became that way. He didn’t fall off a catwalk, or get hit by a weapon. He was attacked by targs. While he was imprisoned. He was tortured by the Klingons who were trying to commandeer and access the Narada.

That’s the story. It can’t be disputed.

504. ensign joe - May 11, 2012

Khan = I’m not seeing it.

So I hope it ends up he’s not in it.

505. dmduncan - May 11, 2012

499: “Maybe during the fight with the Klingons Nero fell off of one of those ridiculous catwalks and his ears got munched…”

Yeah, maybe. But you didn’t finish your quote which is the most important part: “The movie expects you to know from that admittedly sparse information that there IS a story there.”

What it is, we can’t say with certainty…but it’s there. Make up your own if you need to. Make nothing up if you’re fine with it. It’s up to you. The point is the movie doesn’t give you absolutely nothing. So it’s dumb to say oh he didn’t spell it out for me so nothing happened. No. Wrong. He did give you something that said Nero continued to exist and he evidently had some hard experiences.

And that IS in the movie.

500: “And dmduncan, to begin with you presume that the first post I wrote, to which you responded, was in fact directed at you.”

Nope. I presumed nothing. This is a GROUP discussion where any one of us can respond to what any other person here says. You posted something on the same topic I had mentioned, so whether you were responding to me or not — I replied to you. No presumption needed to account for that.

506. dmduncan - May 11, 2012

502. THX-1138 – May 11, 2012

Mmmm, I dunno. The only thing I am sure of is that if it is about Khan, it won’t be a retelling of Space Seed.

Bob says the movie is going to melt our faces…so I’ll be watching it through a welding mask, just in case.

507. AJ - May 11, 2012

Gene Roddenberry said, and I paraphrase, “if it’s on film, it’s canon.”

I think it was a mistake to remove the Rura Penthe sequences. Not only is it another nice ‘wink’ to the olden days, but it actually fills the hole that was created by removing it.

If I were on the Narada, I would suggest to Nero we go home and cool it with our future sports almanacs for 25 years, get laid, and stop being miserable.

508. Red Dead Ryan - May 11, 2012

Yeah, I’d like to see J.J Abrams restore the Rura Penthe scene for a special edition. I think it would help fill in some blanks. I can understand Abrams removing it for pacing issues, but it’s no longer in the theatre so you don’t have to worry about that anymore.

The other deleted scenes can remain deleted, especially the one concerning Kirk getting the Kobayashi Maru code from Gaila.

There was always a bit of a mystery to how Kirk got the code to alter the programming. The deleted scene, if included, would have spoiled it in my opinion.

509. dmduncan - May 11, 2012

503. Red Dead Ryan – May 11, 2012

I agree with you, but we’re talking about if you don’t know that outside the movie information, how do you perceive what happened to Nero during those years based on what the movie does give you?

I say you still get an idea that there is some substantial story there.

510. moauvian waoul - aka: seymour hiney - May 11, 2012

dmduncan Sure, I agree that JJ and perhaps Orci and company expect us to keep up and “get it” but I do believe in this case at least the missing 25 years was either an oversight, a throwaway segment that interfered with the pace they wanted to set (most likely) or poor editing. I guess I’m just saying it’s more of a plot hole than intelligent writing. I’m guessing you disagree. :)

511. Red Dead Ryan - May 11, 2012

#509.

Apart from filming Nero being attacked by targs (which they obviously aren’t going to do after all this time), all we’ve got is the “Nero” comics to go by to fill in those blanks.

I guess it’s up to one’s imagination if they hadn’t read the comics. On the other hand, I would think not many people pondered how Nero got his ears badly injured as the movie was moving at a fast pace anyway. And by the end of the movie, everybody is wondering about other things. Like how is Spock Prime going to figure in the rebuilding of the Vulcan civilization, or where was Winona Kirk during her son’s promotion to captain.

512. dmduncan - May 11, 2012

510: “I guess I’m just saying it’s more of a plot hole than intelligent writing. I’m guessing you disagree. :)”

Yeeah, just because I didn’t experience it that way or as a problem. I was satisfied because I knew something had happened to Nero during those intervening years. And that only because JJ left in the bare minimum information I needed to get that.

I understand not everybody will feel that way. But I didn’t see it as a plot hole. I just saw it as some backstory I didn’t know the details of.

Now I probably would not have done it that way either. But I do like the way JJ makes movies, and that seems to be his style. Which I can’t fault him for having. Just a different choice from a different guy. But I wouldn’t defend it if I thought it didn’t work.

Example? Undercovers sucked. The exact opposite of ST.09. I tuned in when I was able to, exclusively to see Gugu.

One surefire way to get on my bad side is to have your hero unsure of which wire to cut to defuse the bomb. Unless it’s MacGruber.

513. dmduncan - May 11, 2012

AND I thought JJ made a huge stinkbomb of a decision not the do the Shatner scene…

But I won’t get started on THAT! ;-)

514. moauvian waoul - aka: seymour hiney - May 11, 2012

Yes, of course, MacGruber.

515. Montreal_Paul - May 11, 2012

456. AJ

Just want to point out that the story of Nero being captured by the Klingons may have been cut out of the movie… but in the countdown comics and the ongoing comics, Nero was imprisoned by the Klingons… and Orci says that THESE comics are canon. So, yes, Nero was captured and imprisoned by the Klingons for 25 years.

516. Basement Blogger - May 11, 2012

@ 492, 515

Jack, I apologize for putting words that don’t belong to your other writings.

Montreal Paul, I now agree with you that TrekMovie has backed away from its statement about Khan being the villain stated in the Major Star Trek Sequel Spoilers story dated April 30, 2012.

517. moauvian waoul - aka: seymour hiney - May 11, 2012

Yeah. Have to admit that scene sounded just about perfect to me…how it was described. Oh well.

518. Basement Blogger - May 11, 2012

@ 515

By the way Montreal Paul, I’ve read some complaints veiled as jokes that they should bring the Borg back as villains if they bring back Khan. If Countdown is canon, they can bring back the Borg. Nero’s ship was made from Borg technology. Maybe parts of it survived the black hole.

No, I’m not arguing to bring back the Borg. Just making a comment.

519. Montreal_Paul - May 11, 2012

518. Basement Blogger

Yes, in the countdown comics, it is hinted that there are parts of Nero’s ship that could have contained Borg technology. But as far as hearing any comments that the Borg are in this or any subsequent movies… I haven’t seen that anywhere.

Although, in Shatner’s novels, Borg technology is used to bring Kirk back to life after he dies. And with the Borg enhancements on Voyager, I am sure that Borg technology was also used in Starfleet. Mind you, THAT is pure speculation on my part.

520. moauvian waoul - aka: seymour hiney - May 11, 2012

Still think it’ll be Khan, though maybe not as many of us had envisaged. And I’m still not on board, but there I’m just S.O.L.

521. Sebastian S. - May 11, 2012

# 418

Montreal Paul~

“People keep comparing Khan to Joker… or Catwoman… or Zod… or etc. Completely different. Why? Because Batman or Superman had a history with these people. There were story after story about their meetings. Khan was not a foil for Kirk story after story. You want a good antagonist? Kang or Kor or even Trelane (would be like Picard and Q)… even Gary Seven to a lesser degree. Stories about what happened after their initial meetings… chasing after the Klingons and aha! It’s Kang wanting to destroy the Enterprise and Kirk! Am I making sense here? Do you know what I mean?”
________________________

Yes, and I agree completely. With Khan being in the movie he has to have at least a revival scene (or it least is has to be inferred somehow). So, this newly awakened Khan will NOT have the history with Kirk that his “Wrath of Khan” version did. And likewise, “Space Seed” will not have happened in this new timeline. I still think that Khan’s new rescuer will be the Peter Weller villain (or possibly the Klingons) and I also think he should have some kind of post-revival genetic augmentation/surgery to change his looks (remember; he fled Earth a wanted criminal… even Kirk ID’d him with the computer in “Space Seed”). I’d imagine he wouldn’t want to be recognized in the new century.

But whatever happens, you’re right; Khan does not have (in this version of the character) the same shared history and resentment of Kirk (nor will be hell-bent on revenge). The Ahab story of TWOK is presumably not going to happen…

522. Ahmed - May 11, 2012

I won’t mind at all if they brought the Borg back in the third movie or even the Founders.

523. Basement Blogger - May 11, 2012

@ 519

I’m looking at Countdown, the graphic novel. On page 64, Romulan commander D’spal says,

“We retrofitted Borg technology and applied it to Romulan designs.”

They then modify the Narada with said tech. I also recall on the DVD commentary somebody saying the Narada was built with Borg tech. By the way D’spal is a babe. But I digress.

So let’s do the plot for Star Trek 2020. That’s MJ’s prediction for the third movie. ;-) A ship stumbles on parts of the Narada. They bring them on board. Some of the Borg tech assimilates a crewmember. They call the Borg in the 23rd Century. The Borg are back…. Just thinking. guys.

524. Endeavour Crew - May 11, 2012

No more Bob??????

:-(

525. Montreal_Paul - May 11, 2012

523. Basement Blogger

They don’t need the Narada for that. The Borg were in an episode of Enterprise as well. Maybe there was another Borg found on Earth and then yadda, yadda. But I doubt they would go with the Borg. They rebooted the franchise so they wouldn’t get caught up in all the continuity problems that bogged down Trek in DS9, Voyager & Enterprise… they have a huge unpainted canvas now. I would think something original.

526. Ziggy Rot - May 11, 2012

#374: You’re only about the 500th person to say that exact thing in the last week on this board.

527. Johnny - May 11, 2012

@ 504. ensign joe – May 11, 2012

Khan = I’m not seeing it.

So I hope it ends up he’s not in it.

————————–

What if they don’t reveal who the villain is until the movie comes out? Again, this is Bad Robot we’re talking about here… I wouldn’t put it past them to make the villain a complete surprise.

528. MJ - May 11, 2012

@522 “I won’t mind at all if they brought the Borg back in the third movie or even the Founders.”

Not bad!

529. Endeavour Crew - May 11, 2012

Okay Bob, I take back what I said about Trek being a good movie- it was a great movie- it was just verrrrrrry different from the Kirk loving Don Draper era 60’s……..but it worked……very well….

My point is this- after the face melting, mind-blowing sequel we all are expecting how the heck can the 3rd movie be any good?!?!

I know it’s early to talk about it but with all the time put into this sequel there MUST have been a lot of thought about the 3rd movie as well….

Just don’t make a STAR TREK version of the Ewoks- please…..

530. Endeavour Crew - May 11, 2012

And as far as the Borg goes now that we see Alice Eve is in a SF uniform that pretty much rules out her being their queen.

But…..

Could the Borg be the villain for the 3rd and final movie????

Bob?????

JJ????

Anybody?????

Commodore Mike????

531. AJ - May 11, 2012

I just adhere to the Roddenberry creed: Released and shown on film (except TAS)= canon. Anything else: no dice.

Comics are a few nice men speculating.

Without guidelines, it’s the usual: “Dogs & cats…living together…Mass hysteria!”

Comics are not canon, and should be ignored as explanatory platforms for events in the JJverse films.

532. Azrael - May 12, 2012

@508. Gaila doesn’t give Kirk a code for the Kobayashi Maru test. He sends her an “e-mail” (for lack of a better term) with a virus attached that affects the test. He sent it to her because she worked in the simulator. The virus was attached to a two word message reading, “I’m sorry.”. Why would he apologize to her if she was helping him of her own accord? Plus I listened to the commentary, where they talk about what is going on.

533. Azrael - May 12, 2012

@531. Except that they are officially a part of the “JJverse” in the specific case of those being made by IDW. Just sayin’

534. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 12, 2012

I was asleep while Bob Orci was making conversation with the rest of you guys, so it is a bit late now for me to make any comments – sort of.

#365 – I can still remember seeing the news on the US election debacle at the time George (Dubya) Bush Jnr was a presidential candidate for a second term. One thing that did seem weird to us downunder (lots of facepalms) was that George Bush Jnr did not actually get more votes, but because of a strange counting system, he still became president for a second time. Honestly, after watching the bad joke that was that election, no one could take Bush seriously at all. The really scary thing is that we had to take him seriously (despite his multiple gaffs etc) because he was president of one of the most powerful nations on earth with enough firepower to annihilate this planet several times over.

Not only does the President of the USA represent all that is good about the nation, but he also represents stuff that is anything but good. Whether Bob Orci is right or not, if Bob Orci believes that President Obama has not done much, if anything, to correct what is perceived as wrong, then maybe Bob should not go to the dinner lest he be accused of being a kiss-ass.

Of all people, MJ should understand about the correctness of not being an ass-kisser…;)

As for the rest of the posts – well, as long as you’re all having fun going on and on and on and on and on and on…about some dick called Khan – knock yourselves out. As for me, I am soooo bored…sigh

Adios for now. Enjoy your Khan-fest.

535. Guy Fawkes - May 12, 2012

The movie is about Khan. Therefore it is a repeat.

Sorry nothing new or original.

Pass!

Let me guess the Borg are next? Let us “repeat” everything we have already seen and call it new? HAHA

536. Ziggy Rot - May 12, 2012

535, you have no idea what you’re talking about.

537. rogerachong - May 12, 2012

Anthony P u need to post the Kreo Star Trek toys news. Thay look kinda cute.

538. Aurore - May 12, 2012

…..Now!!!……..On a slightly unrelated note…..About those Hispanic actors…….

What role were they ( really )considered for, Mr. Orci? I never believed it was Khan Noonien Singh. Still don’t.

I want to know.

…….Rendez-vous in …2013?
….Right, sure…. I knew you would say that…

539. Neil24 - May 12, 2012

@526 — Ooops! I didn’t realize that at all. But see, this just proves that great Trekker minds (and even the ones that don’t read all the posts), think alike!

Anyway, if Joaquin is the primary villain in this movie, I hope they don’t dispose of Khan (i.e. have him die in the hibernation chamber).

I’d like that villain in my back pocket for a future movie. There’s so much they could do with that character in the new JJ-verse that would not be a re-hash of Space Seed or TWOK.

540. Azrael - May 12, 2012

Oh great Guylord Fawker is back again, so much for intelligent conversation, well catch everyone important on a different thread.

541. Montreal_Paul - May 12, 2012

@ boborci

So, not a remake… not a rehash… but is it a retelling????

542. Red Dead Ryan - May 12, 2012

#532.

Thanks for correcting me. Either way, I’m still glad that scene got deleted. A bit too much exposition.

543. Azrael - May 12, 2012

No prob RDR.

544. AJ - May 12, 2012

533:

Azrael:

Even Bob Orci has remained nebulous on this site as to whether the comics are canon.

Since Nero makes reference to ‘waiting 25 years’ in the film, I assume they’ve been waiting 25 years.

Admittedly, expunging the Klingon element was done sloppily, both due to the quality of the segment, and its importance to the film’s continuity. Almost on the same level of the deleted scenes from “Nemesis” which would have drastically improved that film, but Stuart Baird was never known much as a film editor ;-)

545. Azrael - May 12, 2012

AJ, I was speaking from the perspective of Paramount, who IIRC back when IDW announced their ongoing “JJverse” series stated that it was official material for the new timeline. Thats where I’m coming from on that, but I do not feel like arguing the point longer since it is a fairly minor one, and I will just say,

Keep Trekkin’ my friend.

546. Vultan - May 12, 2012

It’s silly to have to read a comic book to fully understand what the movie’s villain (the character the story revolves around!) was doing for 25 years.

What were they going for? An installment plan?

547. MJ - May 12, 2012

@535 Guy Fawkes: “Sorry nothing new or original.”

Ah, you must be referring to your post here, eh, Guylord Fawker?

548. MJ - May 12, 2012

@534 “Honestly, after watching the bad joke that was that election, no one could take Bush seriously at all.”

I would comment on New Zealand’s leaders, but I have no clue as to who they are, nor does 99.9% of the population of rest of the earth, outside of the South Pacifc region. Sorry, I love New Zealand, but you just aren’t much of a factor at all globally. Out of site, out of mind.

549. ensign joe - May 12, 2012

@ 527 Johnny

I will patiently wait until it comes out.. I am sure we will know by then..

550. Jack - May 12, 2012

maybe it’s a ret-Khan.

551. Montreal_Paul - May 12, 2012

544. AJ

AJ, the comics from Countdown and the Ongoing Trek series from IDW ARE canon as per Bob Orci & JJ. The countdown comics, movie adaptation comics & ongoing are (so far) the only ones considered to be canon. In the last couple of comics, they do also mention that Nero was imprisoned by the Klingons for 25 years. So – that being said – yes, canon.

552. dmduncan - May 12, 2012

I hate to carry the religion analogy further, but you fanboys seem to demand it!

So although the comics may not be CANON. It is easily reasonable to consider them APOCRYPHA.

I.e., not official, but still helpful to understand the official.

That’s why it’s not a coincidence that Nero in the movie has a missing ear tip and teeth marks where in the comics we see those things caused by a Targ.

And it’s really no different in the movies than any other art form where you often — often preferably — have to go outside the main source to understand certain aspects or features of the main source.

That’s how paintings work and have worked for thousands of years.

I’m not exactly sure why Star Trek fans have developed this requirement that everything relevant to the universe of the movie be entirely contained within the movie. That is not only bizarre, but impossible. And really not how any other art form works.

I’m not aware of any other art form where people as a matter of principle ignore the entire context and world outside of the artwork’s creation as if all that mattered were the art itself.

Movies do require you to have a certain level of understanding and a certain ability to figure things out based on what you are shown. You can’t seat a 1 year old child and expect him to understand the plot of The Conversation. He simply doesn’t know anything yet.

And even TOS never operated that way, where its stories were frequently based on and were told to call your attention to the REAL world and its current social issues outside the series.

553. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 12, 2012

#548 – Seriously, what the hell has the size of where I come from have to do with anything?

Perhaps that’s the real point – as you say, not many people know much, if anything about NZ or its politicians, but we here can’t help but know something about your country and its politicians. It’s all about power – power to annihilate the earth if your politicians/military wished, having major corporations, some who have the power to deliver necessary medicines to many of the planet’s populations etc, or price them beyond the range of many incomes or withhold – you name it, good and bad. NZ, being small and as you say, “aren’t much of a factor globally” as are many other small nations, does not have or is able to wield the kind of power that the USA and other countries like China can.

What I am getting from your post, MJ, is that is OK to ignore/dismiss what someone from one of two small islands on the other side of the world, whose closest neighbours are another larger island, whose interior is pretty much uninhabitable (Australia) and the world’s largest ice-block, Antarctica. See – that’s the fundamental problem that the US (and China) has – they think that because they are so big (in land and people numbers) that nobody else really matters and/or just there to be used/abused.

And yes, there are a couple of NZ politicians I can think of right now who I have little time for and unfortunately one of them is John Key, Prime Minister of NZ – not that you need to know or indeed care.

I am sorry, MJ, but I found your post INSULTING. Frankly, what you should be more concerned is how come someone knows more about the vagaries of American election procedures (in the case of how George Bush Jnr came to office for a second time) than it seems many Americans themselves. I am just ordinary joanne-blog who catches the main TV news as screened on NZ television and reads the NZ Herald newspaper occasionally. I don’t have a satellite dish, cable or anything else. Sheesh, already!

554. Basement Blogger - May 12, 2012

@ 551
Montreal Paul

I’m trying to remember what Bob Orci said about what is canon. If I recall he said filmed media was canon and print media was not. He might hinted that his written stuff, the graphic novels and the novelization were canon. We need to hear from Bob Orci again on this. Maybe Anthony can ask him this question.

555. Basement Blogger - May 12, 2012

@ 546

Vultan, I agree that it’s silly to have read a graphic novel to understand a character in a movie. That’s one of the problems of the 2009 movie. Reading Countdown, I got it why Nero was so angry. I liked the graphic novel much more that the 2009 movie. The graphic novel was Star Trek.

Since George Lucas screwed up the Force with midi-chlorians, it seems to me that screenwriters are scared of too much exposition. For example, the excellent Source Code needed more exposition. If you didn’t know anything about the term “quantum mechanics”, you would have trouble with the mind blowing ending.

556. Montreal_Paul - May 12, 2012

554. Basement Blogger

I am sure if you go back on Trekmovie to where the countdown comics article first appeared a few years back- you will see the comments somewhere there. If my memory serves correct, it was stated that they were canon and not just hinted at. Or Anthony can verify it.

557. filmboy33 - May 12, 2012

Wow BobOrci getting political up in here! I gotta say I love it. Not related to Trek of course, but politics is always a welcome topic of discussion and debate with me and in my household.

It is sad to me that Obama went in as a such a perceived agent of change in Washington. He promised to reform government, weaken lobbies, and restore government to an agent of change and prosperity for the middle class and poor. I knew he would not do half of what he promised (nature of politics I am afraid). But I felt he would make things better in small ways.

Four years later Washington is more divided and partisan than ever and many in the middle class are much worse off. I still have some faith, but it is growing smaller every day.

Be great if Orci and company used the new Star Trek movie to explore some of the problems and challenges we face as a nation now. Using the film as a slightly warped mirror.

Just a thought.

558. MJ - May 12, 2012

@553. Yea, whatever. You can continue to take potshots at the USA from time to time as you are prone to do, but I am not going to stand by and give you a free pass on that. You live in the veil of protection that we provide the Western world, so I would prefer it if you just said “thank you” and went on your way…

559. Jack - May 12, 2012

I thought I remember them saying the comics weren’t canon.

BTW, only Americans are allowed to have opinions on George Bush? WTF?

And this “veil of protection that we provide the Western world” thing is bullshit.

560. MJ - May 12, 2012

@552. But the official movie novelizations, which provide more background story, are canon, as they are the “official” expanded story of the movie.

561. MJ - May 12, 2012

@559. Just sick of Keachick’s period rants taking potshots at the USA. I’m not a Bush fan myself; well at least not a “George” Bush fan. :-)

562. MJ - May 12, 2012

@516 “periodic rants”

563. Red Dead Ryan - May 12, 2012

#561.

A fan of the rock band Bush are you? Or footballer Reggie Bush? Or actress Sophia Bush?…..

564. Montreal_Paul - May 12, 2012

563. Red Dead Ryan

LoL

565. Vultan - May 12, 2012

#555

Yeah, the midi-chlorian thing was a big mistake. The Force was great as it was—mysterious. Worked perfectly with the fantasy element of Star Wars. Not sure what Lucas was thinking by injecting Trek style technobabble into the mix.

As for Nero, his 25-year absence or vacation—whatever you want to call it—should have been explained better, either with a couple of lines about the Klingons taking them captive… or something to fill the gap. That’s a long time to be hanging out in space. And a chewed ear implies nothing—other than a visit from Mike Tyson.

566. Jack - May 12, 2012

561. I’m not a Bush fan myself; well at least not a “George” Bush fan. :-)

So you disagree with Brazilians too? :)

I won’t hit “say it.” I won’t hit “sa

567. MJ - May 12, 2012

@563 @564

LOL

@565

The midi-chlorian idea of Lucas’s was one of the dumbest moves is a series of incredible dumb moves by Lucas on the prequel movies. I mean to try to all of a sudden give a hard-science backing to the force ruined the whole mystique and religious nature of the force for me.

568. MJ - May 12, 2012

@566. LOL

And don’t we all like to look at a good wax job now and then. ;-0

569. Red Dead Ryan - May 12, 2012

Well, some of the mistakes made in the prequel trilogy (most notably, “The Phantom Menace”) were fixed in “The Clone Wars” cartoon series. Darth Maul is back, and Qui Gon Jinn returns as a spirit in a couple of episodes.

570. Jack - May 12, 2012

I agree on all this, though — there’s unnecessary explanation/exposition (midi chlorians, most technobabble) for things that don’t need explaining… and then there’s stuff that just doesn’t make sense, and it’s easy to get all existential and say there are many truths and in real life we don’t understand people’s motivations and, well, other stuff that doesn’t apply here. If Nero’s motivations were supposed to be impossible to understand — just a crazy guy, like the Joker in Batman Begins — well, it would have helped to either know less about him (say, only show him from the Enterprise characters’ point of view, or leave it a complete mystery) or a little bit more.

Even the bits about time travel and black holes — fair enough, theories have changed… but if the public perception is that black holes are just dead stars that crush everything that enters them, well, then addressing that in a non-clunky way might just help the average Joe from going ‘great movie, but I don’t get how you can travel in time through a black hole’…

I get that you don’t want, Lt. Exposition, a character who probably should get it (given he/she serves aboard a starship in the 23rd century) but still asks all sorts of questions solely for the audience (like Chekov either not recalling or not knowing that phasers set off alarms in Trek VI) and you don’t want a power point presentation, but…

If you have to know m-theory (brane and brane, what is brane?) to get how a supernova could threaten the galaxy, well…

There’s expecting the audience to figure things out for themselves (which is great), not connecting all the dots for them (also great) and then there’s Spock’s voiceover in Trek 09.

May be somewhat intentional, but it ends up looking like they either had a bunch of scenes cut, or else had a script with parts that weren”t quite ready to film.

571. Vultan - May 12, 2012

I think they could’ve skipped Phantom Menace altogether. What did we learn from that movie? The Force is a blood disease and Vader was a kid at one point and a slave.

Not the most dynamic stuff, that story.

572. Red Dead Ryan - May 12, 2012

#571.

I agree. At least “Attack Of The Clones” got the story moving, and “Revenge Of The Sith” was an excellent climax.

573. MJ - May 12, 2012

@572, @571

Agreed! Would have been better if the additional movie in the prequel trilogy had been in-between Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith.

574. MJ - May 12, 2012

I haven’t watched Clone Wars since Season 1. Just curious — how did they bring Darth Maul back?

575. Red Dead Ryan - May 12, 2012

#574.

Maul was found to be still alive after his fall to the bottom of the shaft. He had cybernetic legs attached. He went into hiding on another planet, where Savage Oppress, his brother (he has a black pattern on yellow skin) found him with the help of the Nightsisters.

576. Vultan - May 12, 2012

#573

Yep. And for me the Clone Wars depicted in the movies was one of the few things that wasn’t disappointing about the trilogy. Just imagine all the Annie and Jar-Jar nonsense cut out to make way for more troopers and droids and bounty hunters. Warriors and starships. Pew-pew. Zap-zap. You know, REAL Star Wars.

Hey, a fan can dream…

How about a young Han Solo series? Now that would be cool.

577. Vultan - May 12, 2012

And by young I mean 20 years old.
Not 6.

578. Vultan - May 12, 2012

Eh, 20 is still a little too young. Make that 25-30.

579. Red Dead Ryan - May 12, 2012

George Lucas for some reason is reluctant to go back to the timeframe of the original trilogy. A young Han Solo series would be awesome, but then again, he was a bit mysterious in that we didn’t know his origins. He was a smuggler who was at the right place and time for Luke and Obi Wan to meet.

580. Vultan - May 12, 2012

#579

True. Plus, if Lucas were in total control of the project, Han would inevitable be some… secret alien vampire with an android mother or some other nonsense that takes the mystery out of the character (see: The Force, Vader, Boba Fett, etc).

581. Vultan - May 12, 2012

Correction: inevitably, not inevitable.

582. Vultan - May 12, 2012

If you’d told me in 1993 when I was a young SW nut that Vader built 3PO and Fett was a clone of his daddy, I would’ve laughed.

Kinda sad.

583. Jack - May 12, 2012

582. Or that Annie was the product of a virgin birth and rose (sort of) out of slavery.

Even some of the ideas that could have been interesting — Democracy is flawed and leads, a la Bob’s statement above, puppets whose only interest is staying in power… and the idea that even the most nobel philosopher king (not Paparine, he’s boringly pure evil) end up corrupted….

584. Ahmed - May 12, 2012

I hope that someday soon, someone else will take the reins of Star Wars projects (both movies & TV series) & bring it back to the silver screen. Perhaps Abrams, since he is a big Star Wars fan, can do that.

Star Wars universe is rich with many possibilities that can sustain a whole new trilogy.

585. Vultan - May 12, 2012

#583

You’re right. There was quite a bit of Arthurian inspired legend and political/ethical material that was either lightly touched on or completely ignored. So many wasted opportunities.

#584

Lucas is getting up there. Surely he has plans already in mind of what happens to his baby once he’s gone. Hopefully, they’re good ones.

I’d hate to see Star Wars exploited to make a quick buck. ;D

586. Ahmed - May 12, 2012

@585. Vultan
“I’d hate to see Star Wars exploited to make a quick buck. ;D”

Me too, Star Wars need a visionary who will take the saga to a whole new levels; someone like James Cameron or Peter Jackson.

Speaking of visionary directors, I hope that someone else other than Abrams, get to direct the third Trek movie. I think the movie will benefit from having a new hand with a new take & vision.

587. NCM - May 12, 2012

@ 557. filmboy33 – May 12, 2012

I agree with you, somewhat, but consider where we were, seriously, and what we reasonably might have expected; esp. given commitment on the other side of the isle to thwart all of the opponent’s undertakings.

588. Red Dead Ryan - May 12, 2012

I didn’t mind the virgin birth, or the Fett stuff. I like the clone troopers, and Palpatine/Darth Sidious, while pure evil, was a joy to watch as he carefully pulled the strings and manipulated a corrupted political system from within and set up a false war as a means to an end to the Republic and allow for the revenge of the Sith against the Jedi.

I recently read the “Star Wars” novel “Darth Plagueis”. It explains the rise of Palpatine/Darth Sidious as politician/Sith Lord. It was a good book.

589. Red Dead Ryan - May 12, 2012

Also, I wouldn’t mind seeing Joss Whedon’s take on “Star Wars”. Just like how I think Duncan Jones would be good for “Star Trek”. These gentlemen would probably add something new to, and put a new spin on, both franchises.

590. Ahmed - May 12, 2012

@588. Red Dead Ryan – May 12, 2012

“I recently read the “Star Wars” novel “Darth Plagueis”. It explains the rise of Palpatine/Darth Sidious as politician/Sith Lord. It was a good book.”

Didn’t read that book yet, in fact the only Star Wars novels that I read were Timothy Zahn’s Thrawn trilogy.

Do you recommend any other Star Wars books, specially the ones where the events happen during the The Old Republic ?

591. Jack - May 12, 2012

589. I woudn’t mind seeing him Whedon tackle Trek either (but am not sure if it would stop being Trek and be a Josh Whedon Movie)..

I’d really like to see Brad Bird’s take on Trek.

Loved Moon, but, not sure why, wasn’t thrilled with the one after.

592. Jack - May 12, 2012

BTW, to Bob or any film guys who come on here:

You guys like movies like the rest of us, I’m assuming, so why do most modern big-budget movies end with interchangeable, incomprehensible, destroy-everything fx-heavy battles?

Heck, even Dark Shadows, which should be fun and campy, or stay true to the source and be pure melodrama, ended in the standard CGI brawl.

The fight in the Avengers surprised me (I was dreading it the whole movie — but it was okay), because you could actually sort of follow what was happening, and the ships etc. weren’t entirely the standard CGI insectoid/robotic/reptilian alien ships of every movie from the last 5 years (but there was some similarity).

Trek ’09 ended with a battle, but it made sense, visually, and wasn’t just 20 minutes of FX and carnage.

Star Trek 2 had a good 15 minutes left (I’ve never timed it) after the climactic battle, thanks to Spock’s dying.

Not sure what the answer is — I look at movies that had far too many endings (that Speilberg/Kubrick Haley Joel Osment movie) and that doesn’t work, either.

593. boborci - May 13, 2012

557. Be Careful What You Wish For;)

594. boborci - May 13, 2012

471?

I was automatically born an American citizen as a result of moms Cuban refugee status as a result of cuban revolution as a result of American puppet dictator being overthrown in Cuba. Any questions?

595. spooky - May 13, 2012

Something has always bothered me regarding Spock Prime in the 2009 movie.

Why did he not notice that a great deal of the universe that he knew had changed? He even went to great lengths to get nuKirk to follow Kirk Prime’s development? How was he sure that this Kirk would be anything like the Kirk he knew?

I hope those Khan rumours are bogus and it is something cool and surprising. :)

596. JonnyP - May 13, 2012

I hope somebody gets laid around here.

Who cares. Jj will do what he wants to do and we will all lay down 14 bucks to see his remade rehashed cannon trashed completely pulled out of his ass sequel.

And it will rock.

597. roger - May 13, 2012

I don’t know if anyone has touched on this yet –

Everyone thinks it’s kahn because of actors like benecio being in talks to be the villain. Cumberbatch is not hispanic but we think he is still kahn.

What if it was all distraction? Let’s say we’re courting benicio and then talks fall apart etc. and then we can cast whomever without giving away the villain…

I’m not convinced of anything rumor wise. And I don’t want to know. I want to be surprised by the film like I was in 2009.

598. dmduncan - May 13, 2012

592: “You guys like movies like the rest of us, I’m assuming, so why do most modern big-budget movies end with interchangeable, incomprehensible, destroy-everything fx-heavy battles?”

You mentioned The Avengers. And there it’s perfectly at home because fighting is what they did in the comics. And in The Avengers you also had misunderstandings and battles between heroes, and that was part of the comic book world as well, which I loved. Iron Man vs. Thor. Who could beat whom? The burning question of a nine year old mind!

As for the rest, if they are big budget movies, as opposed to small budget ones where conflicts are less epic…well, you sort of answered your own question about why they have these VFX heavy finales.

599. dmduncan - May 13, 2012

A Whedon Star Trek would be very interesting. But fans would complain that there’s too much humor in it. If you didn’t like Kirk’s swollen hands, imagine the international pants crapping that would occur with all the gags Whedon likes to put in his work.

Not that there are THAT many fans who would throw a fit. But the few there are who would probably have huge pants.

600. wells5150 - May 13, 2012

Trelane or Q????

601. wells5150 - May 13, 2012

gotta be Flint……..

602. NCM - May 13, 2012

593. boborci – May 13, 2012

557. Be Careful What You Wish For;)

___________________-

Anthony may have to open the political forum before May 2013, or we may not be able to discuss the new film.

603. Jack - May 13, 2012

599. Amazingly, the Avengers was pretty light in the sarcasm/humour (well, except Tony Stark)…

It would be great if Trek looked at some of this stuff (politics etc., and these are timeless problems). In Time — that Andrew Niccols film — had a nice, but pretty ham-handed, anti-capitalist bent.

I’m liking Veep on HBO — it’s basically The Office but with politics, which is kind of what real politics is like. And I still think Dr. Strangelove captures some of that Trek idealism — showing how awful, banal, pointless and silly the alternative is.

As for the mind-numbing CGI final battle, yeah, it was more of a gripe than a question. It’s like the fx guys and the filmmakers get so immersed in what they *can* do that they kind of ignore the point of it all. There are some recent 3D action flicks where it’s pretty much the same as wearing sunglasses while watching some guy you don’t know play Doom for two hours.

Apropos of nothing, I was listening to a pretty great radio interview with Richard Holloway, former bishop of Edinburgh, this morning. He talked about how people who are fighting doubts about their own beliefs, or refuse to acknowledge those doubts, are the most likely to attack anything that challenges those beliefs — thus you get homophobic closeted gays, wars over religion, and, well, you name it…

604. dmduncan - May 13, 2012

602. NCM – May 13, 2012

Bob will never leave the site. He’ll have the forum displaying constantly on his Google glasses. With voice recognition software to deliver his posts, it’ll look like he’s wearing shades and arguing conspiracies with himself.

605. Ahmed - May 13, 2012

I just read the new column by Thomas Friedman, “This Column Is Not Sponsored by Anyone” about a new book addressing the increasing power of commercials in our life.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/opinion/sunday/friedman-this-column-is-not-sponsored-by-anyone.html?src=me&ref=general

I vaguely remember a short SF story about a man who rent a room in a hotel outside the city because there is no advertising in that one hotel. I forgot the title of the story or who wrote but I think it was written either in the 50s or 60s.

Ridley Scott would be the best guy to make a movie about that.

606. MJ - May 13, 2012

@594. Glad to have you here, Bob!

607. MJ - May 13, 2012

@603 “Bob will never leave the site. He’ll have the forum displaying constantly on his Google glasses. With voice recognition software to deliver his posts, it’ll look like he’s wearing shades and arguing conspiracies with himself.”

LOL. Yep!

608. MJ - May 13, 2012

@594. Bob, as a student of history, I would sincerely be interested to hear what happened to your family in Cuba during the revolution, how you family ended up in Mexico and then Canada, and about your Dad’s background I believe as a diplomat?

609. Vultan - May 13, 2012

For those interested in the early days of Castro and Cuban history, I recommend reading a book called “Killing Castro” by Lawrence Block. It’s a fictional account of a group of hit men hired to… you guessed it… kill Castro. But it also gives a fairly thorough account of the revolution, its causes and immediate aftermath—in the author’s own pulpy, hard-boiled style.

It was written in 1961.
Needless to say, a nice little time capsule from that era.

610. Basement Blogger - May 13, 2012

@ 571

Vultan, saw Phantom in 3D. Had to endure Jar Jar again. The 3D conversion stunk. A little girl behind me said, “Daddy I can’t see.” Exactly. The midi-chlorians did not wreck the movie though it has a negative impact on screenplays. Again see the lack thereof in the excellent “Source Code.” What wrecked Phantom Menace?

1. Jar Jar Binks. Meesa so annoyed,. wanna grab character and smack himsa upsidea head.

2. That little kid who played Anakin. Right. Little nine year old (?) can fly racing pods and starfighters. I know he’s young but was it too much to ask Lucas to direct this kid’s acting?

3. Terrible art direction. Leather helmets for flight suits?

611. Basement Blogger - May 13, 2012

@ 608

Hold on. There was a fictional account of an attempt to kill Castro? Sounds far fetched. What government would want to kill Castro? (Tongue rolling in cheek, looking for today’s lunch.)

612. Vultan - May 13, 2012

#609

Why in the world would you go see Phantom Menace again?
Crap in 3D is just… crap in another dimension.

613. Basement Blogger - May 13, 2012

Sorry for the typos in 609. The sentence should read:

The midi-chlorians did not wreck the movie though it has a negative impact on screenplays. Again see the lack of exposition in the excellent “Source Code.”

614. Vultan - May 13, 2012

#610

In the novel, the hit men are hired by Cuban refugees in Miami. I don’t remember any government agents involved. Been awhile since I read it. But a good read anyway.

Would make for a good movie, too.
(Hint-hint, Bob.)

615. Basement Blogger - May 13, 2012

@ 611

I love movies. They were hyping the 3D up. Did not hate Phantom, just thought it was lacking.

By the way saw Titanic in 3D too. All this movie going gives me something to write about. Overrated as a 3D movie. You can’t convert a 2D movie and make it look it as good as one shot in 3D. Conversions look like pop up books. See link below to see how conversions are done.

Still, I love a good 3D movie that was shot in 3D. Wim Wenders shot his dance documentary which was nominated for an Academy Award in 3D. Stunning. Thought some of the people and objects were in the theater with me. Of course thought Hugo was fantastic. Director Scorses wants to shoot everything in 3D now.

1. The conversion process
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2010/01/how_do_you_convert_a_flat_movie_into_3d.html

2. Scorsese loves 3D
http://www.craveonline.com/film/articles/187535-martin-scorsese-will-only-make-3d-movies-now

616. Ahmed - May 13, 2012

@609. Basement Blogger

Totally agree about Jar Jar Binks, he was the most annoying thing in that movie.

As for the boy who was playing Anakin, the blame rest on Lucas shoulders, he should have put more effort in guiding the boy.

The young actor, Jake Lloyd, was deeply discouraged by the reaction of the fans & critics, as you can see here

Don’t Expect to See ‘The Phantom Menace’’s Jake Lloyd Ever Act Again

http://www.blackbookmag.com/movies/don-t-expect-to-see-the-phantom-menace-s-jake-lloyd-ever-act-again-1.45583

Star Wars’ Jake Lloyd on how The Phantom Menace ended his acting career

http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/1271285/star_wars_jake_lloyd_on_how_the_phantom_menace_ended_his_acting_career.html

617. dmduncan - May 13, 2012

Re: 604:

And, I should add, the same will probably be true of me!

618. Tom - May 13, 2012

The real red herring would be all this talk about Nimoy showing up and lo and behold there is William Shatner. Naaah couldnt be right?? this is where the secrecy is fun and leads to all sorts of wild speculation and dare i say conspiracies

619. Vultan - May 13, 2012

#615

I love movies too, but I’m not a fan of 3D. Gives me headaches. And Scorsese may be getting on the wrong bandwagon. 3D ticket sales are on the decline (link). The Avengers and other blockbusters will probably prop it up for awhile longer, but I can’t see it lasting the decade.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/mar/09/conversation-3d-films-decline

I think Chris Nolan is on the right track, investing in IMAX rather than 3D—a really big screen rather than the gimmick of forced stereoscopy. I mean, think about it. Like 3D, pop-up books have been around for over a hundred years, but are they future of children’s literature?

620. Vultan - May 13, 2012

Correction: “but are they THE future of…”

621. dmduncan - May 13, 2012

I don’t have a problem with 2D movies, even though Hollywood keeps telling me I should have a problem with them. Sorry. I guess the hypnosis ain’t taking…

622. boborci - May 13, 2012

602. Lol!

623. Ahmed - May 13, 2012

Hey Bob, have you seen the AMC series, Rubicon ?

I think it was one of the best conspiracy series in the recent years.

624. dmduncan - May 13, 2012

619: “I think Chris Nolan is on the right track, investing in IMAX rather than 3D—a really big screen rather than the gimmick of forced stereoscopy. I mean, think about it. Like 3D, pop-up books have been around for over a hundred years, but are they future of children’s literature?”

Ha! Good analogy. I like Scorcese, and yeah, he’s a great director, but I don’t feel the same way he does. And my favorite Scorcese picture isn’t Hugo. It isn’t even Goodfellas. It’s Age of Innocence. So I guess that means I’m in an unusual category with respect to his films anyway.

I’m more with Nolan who correctly pointed out that “2D” movies already have depth. Movies have had depth since cameras had hand cranks on them.

It’s probably time to start making the distinction between depth perception and stereoscopy in movies. Not the same thing.

625. boborci - May 13, 2012

623. I did. Loved it.

626. Ahmed - May 13, 2012

@625. boborci

I’d love one day to see a conspiracy movie based on a script by you. Or would that be too controversial for Hollywood these days ?

627. Basement Blogger - May 13, 2012

Okay, now that Bob Orci is here. On this thread, we were wondering if

1. Is the graphic novel Countdown canon?

2. If so, does that mean the Supreme Court will decide what non-filmed Star Trek will be considered canon?

3. Alice Eve’s hair color in the new Star Trek movie will be blond?

4. Oh, and Cumberbatch is playing Khan?

628. Ahmed - May 13, 2012

To add to Basement Blogger list,

any idea when we will see the trailer or the poster ?

629. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 13, 2012

Speaking about kids driving cars, flying starfighters etc – On the TV news here last night was a TRUE story of a 14 year old boy who drove his father’s brand new fully-automatic big rig 200kms down the east coast of the South Island. The only reason he got pulled up by the cops was that they thought he looked a little young…other than that, no problem.

Of course, there was also the true story of an 11 year old boy who drove his sick mother to the hospital in her car because he thought the ambulance was taking too long…once again, he was only pulled over by cops because they thought he looked a bit young, not for any other reason.

I think that we underestimate our kids sometimes and there just may be a little too much mollycoddling at times. Kids in other eras were riding horses from an early age. Kids from 11/12 years of age were/are riding on farm bikes, tractors, utes, horses on NZ farms and many of these family farms are quite isolated. The fact is that these bikes, utes etc were not as powerful in the past, but nor were they as safe either. Mustering etc has to be done – needs must…

630. Red Dead Ryan - May 13, 2012

I can’t remember who, but there was an actress working on a movie with Jake Lloyd over ten years ago who said he was a brat.

631. LizardGirl - May 14, 2012

@595
I don’t think there was enough time for that, which the length of the movie and all. When we first meet Spock Prime, he’s stranded on a planet (for a good part of the movie). And when he recognized Kirk in the cave he didn’t have time to notice the differences, unless he did but didn’t care. He knew that he didn’t have much time before Nero acted. He saw Kirk and acted when he mind melded him.

It would be nice if we got to hear the conversation they had around the fire. That may be when they talk about their respective universes and maybe even their counterparts.

632. Jack - May 14, 2012

Oops, Joss not Josh. Sorry. Clearly Not a huge fan — watched Buffy sometimes, most of Dollhouse (meh), a few Angels and saw Serenity, liked all his stuff but didn’t catch the fever. Liked Cabin in the Woods, (it reminded me of buffy) but was pretty impressed that he managed to pull the Avengers together.

633. Brandon - May 14, 2012

Yes, there are all kinds of villains in the Trek universe. No, there are not all kinds of villains in the Trek universe who will have any name-recognizability or draw with the casual fan or non-Trekkie. Everyone knows that Trelaine and Mudd will not be the main villain, because nobody cares about them.

It’ll be Khan. Orci and Kurtzman will continue their shallow approach to the reboot and fans across the globe, desperate for any kind of Trek no matter what quality, will continue to lap it up.

634. Jenna - May 14, 2012

Okay these won’t help the “too white” folks if Ben does happen to be Khan after all, but perhaps the “scrawny” screamers might tone it down? (No Montleban of course but not horrible) Pap pics from the Sun, sorry, hope that’s okay..

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/tv/4316637/Sherlock-star-Benedict-Cumberbatch-shows-off-toned-physique.html

635. starbase63 - May 15, 2012

Of course saying “no remakes, no rehashes” doesn’t preclude the possibility of the film following modern convention and be a “reimagining.”

Mr. Orci, please feel free to stop by our community and interact…

636. starbase63 - May 15, 2012

http://z15.invisionfree.com/sb63s_Star_Trek_Logs/index.php

637. Montreal_Paul - May 15, 2012

@boborci

Just remember… a retelling, re-imagining, reboot… all the same as a remake or rehash.

638. Mark - May 16, 2012

The good thing about bob’s ‘work’ is that it makes Insurrection and Nemesis seem much better.

The whole ‘reboot’ idea is a cynical and unimaginative cashgrab. Could Abrams, Orci and co not have come up with their own, original Enterprise crew without recycling the 60s one? No, because they don’t have the talent to create original characters, just rehash Mission Impossible, Zorro, Transformers, Star Trek, Hawaii Five-O and whatever other ‘franchises’ they can get their hands on.

Depressing.

639. Azrael - May 16, 2012

See Mark now all of that is just your opinion, nothing more, and plenty of people do not agree with you.

640. Commodore Adams - May 16, 2012

my two cents:

With all the rumors around, it is very possible that the villain is Khan but yes there are a number of new stories to be told. If they use a classic element from the original series i.e. the of awakening Khan, there are a number of new stories which could be told. With the new universe the playground is open, but its still the Original Series. Its natural to use the classic elements and wrote a new story…not only is it a new story, its a way to tie this new universe to the prime universe while following its own path. The 2009 movie was something so new and so fresh and yet felt like an old friend from the past. That is what I want! And that is great story telling! A new story is not a remake, even if they use elements from the original series….i.e. Star Trek 2009! lol

641. Nutherchans - May 16, 2012

Peter Weller is Harry Mudd. Mudd’s latest scam is genetically-enhanced males for sale. Benedict Cumberbatch is not Kahn but a Starfleet Cadet named Konn and he has to take special drugs obtained from Mudd to maintain his new image. Only problem is the side-effects turn him into a superman impervious to Vulcan neck-pinches and able to beat the snot out of Spock requiring Uhura to blast him with a phaser to defeat him. The phaser blast reacts with the drugs giving Konn glowing eyes so Spock has to do a volcano jump to retrieve a special mineral to counteract the effects of the Mudd Drugs. Meanwhile, Kirk and company are chasing Mudd all over the galaxy trying to catch him. In the climactic fight between Kirk and Mudd, Kirk’s shirt gets torn before he tricks Mudd into taking an overdose of his new drug causing Harry Mudd to become Harriet Mudd…

642. Dr. Cheis - May 18, 2012

Wouldn’t it be interesting if we didn’t find out who the villain is until the movie is released?

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