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Khan30: New Video of Leonard Nimoy Talking About Last Minute Change To His Final Scene In TWOK June 21, 2012

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Celebrity,Feature Films (TMP-NEM),History,Nimoy , trackback

Over the weekend Leonard Nimoy appeared at the LA Festival to introduce and talk about Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. The film, which is enjoying its 30th anniversary this month, was being shown for free at an outdoor screening. Nimoy talked about how [spoiler alert] his death scene was changed at the last minute to give them an out to bring him back in the next movie. Watch the video below. Plus see how Nimoy is a little upset over how the video was edited.

 

Watch Leonard Nimoy talk  Star Trek II death scene

Here is Leonard Nimoy talking about the "remember" scene in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan was added at the last minute.

Nimoy had tweeted a link to this video himself, but then he seemed to also have an issue with it. Earlier today he pointed out that the video was edited.

More Wrath of Khan coverage coming soon

It was promised earlier, but the Nick Meyer interview will go up tomorrow here at TrekMovie!

Comments

1. Spock/Uhura Admirer ;-) - June 21, 2012

Nimoy is great, simply great. :-)

Should I say, first? ;-)

2. porthoses bitch - June 21, 2012

And the retirement continues…..

3. Miles R. Seppelt - June 21, 2012

“Remember…”

4. BringbackTrekagain! - June 21, 2012

Awesome, he is always good at these public appearances. I always wish I could see one in person.

5. Shilliam Watner (Click for Trek Ships Poster) - June 21, 2012

A truly amazing scene for any movie. Nimoy and Shatner were great in it. No subsequent Star Trek movie ever reached that level of emotional resonance.

6. Sebastian S. - June 21, 2012

Who can ever forget “remember”? ;-D

7. GarySeven - June 21, 2012

a lot of music and hype, but didnt seem like a lot of people were there.
I love Leonard Nimoy.

8. porthoses bitch - June 21, 2012

As I recall the “remember” scene was not in the Allan Dean Foster novelization (in which a bloodied radiation burned Spock was featured). I read it prrior to seeing the film. When it got to the “remember ” scene my arm shot out…..” so thats the way theyre going to do it”….same as Kirks log entry and mccoys ” hes not really dead as long as we remember him”….just great stufff….

Speaking of which does anyone have a still of the burn makeup ? Always been hard to get a good look at it. Even on blue ray the reflection plays the devil with it.

Before there were lens flares there were reflections….( imagine the sttmp wormhole sequence shot by JJ).

9. Mantastic - June 21, 2012

Is it really necessary to preface Spock’s death with a spoiler alert anymore?

10. allister Gourlay (uk) - June 21, 2012

NO. 9 – lol are you serious?

11. SirMartman - June 22, 2012

“Spocks Death”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLcc26-Mzac

:oD

12. Yeah, Man! - June 22, 2012

#8 – You mean Vonda McIntyre, NOT Alan Dean Foster. ;)

13. Basement Blogger - June 22, 2012

Great stuff. By the way HBO is running Star Trek I, II and III lately.. It’s been on the HBO Family channel. All this Star Trek goodness is in HD.

Been thinking that Klingon culture gets it’s start with Star Trek III: The Search for Spock. All that Klingon honor stuff seems to begin with Captain Kruge. It seems to me that Klingon culture was further defined in The Next Generation. Then later with Deep Space Nine.

Anyway, happy 30th anniversary Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan.

14. Tiberius Subprime - June 22, 2012

Happy Anniversary.

KHAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

15. anotherscott - June 22, 2012

I guess they had to edit the actual Q&A down to 105 seconds in order to have room for that useless 50 second intro.

16. Punkspocker - June 22, 2012

Nimoy rocks! Best scene ever! I still cry.

17. I'm Dead Jim! - June 22, 2012

@15 And forget the cheesy music interludes peppered throughout. I would love to see the entire interview.

18. jas_montreal - June 22, 2012

@2

LOL

19. chrisfawkes.com - June 22, 2012

I think we all acknowledge that is was Wrath of Khan that saved Star Trek. Thank god for Meyer and Bennett.

20. Sebastian S. - June 22, 2012

Just watched “The Wrath of Khan” last night.
Such an amazing movie. Even more so when you watch it in context and remember that it came off the heels of the very cool, cerebral and stately ST-TMP. It was like an explosion of color and energy. TWOK is a ST movie just bursting with raw humanity. It very smartly cut corners (with stock footage of TMP, clever reuse of sets, etc) while retaining the best of what made ST work (great use of characters, a tense battle in the Mutara nebula, etc). It’s essentially “How To Make Good Star Trek 101.” No wonder so many have tried to copy the formula over the years….

It rewrote the book on ST and guaranteed the survival of it for many years. Without it, there would’ve been no ST-TNG or it’s spinoffs. Even though ST-TMP did well at the box office (and I personally enjoyed it), it didn’t exactly leave the franchise on firm footing. TWOK proved that you could do a ST on a grittier, lower budget movie and focus on the beloved characters instead of mere spectacle.

And TWOK made ST a brand name again throughout the ’80s and ’90s. As David Marcus said in ST3, “If (it) hadn’t, it might’ve been years, or never…”

Thanks again, Harve Bennett and Nicholas Meyer (and Leonard Nimoy)!

21. AJ - June 22, 2012

What? There’s a sequel to TMP?

22. Cygnus-X1 - June 22, 2012

Fascinating.

23. Danpaine - June 22, 2012

Yeah, those movie showings on HBO, in a ROW, no less, in HD, no less, are a treat lately. Love it.

24. Sebastian S. - June 22, 2012

# 21 AJ~

Hard to believe, but yes.

;-D

25. Adam Bomb 1701 - June 22, 2012

The word got out about Spock’s death BEFORE the movie was even released. That was in the pre-internet “dark ages” of the early 1980′s. So, I see no need to call it a “Spoiler”. Besides he (SPOILER) comes back in the next one. Which has the (SPOILER) destruction of the Enterprise. The news of which also got out during production.
@#13 – HBO Family last Sunday night (6/17) ran Trek movies I, II and III consecutively. The next night, they ran IV, V and VI consecutively. “TMP” is the theatrical version, without the overture. Which is never shown on TV. Nor, AFAIK, has the DVD “Director’s Edition” ever been run on TV. When “VI” is now run on HBO, it’s the theatrical version. When they first ran it back in January 1993, it was the longer (by about two minutes) video version.

26. VOODOO - June 22, 2012

Anybody who doesn’t want Mr. Nimoy is future Star Trek films is quite simply a dope.

27. pilotfred - June 22, 2012

star trek 2 is the worste kind of trek film i am not saying its a bad movie if fact i love the film just not a trek movie

tmp is a trek film and so is 5

the one i love the most is trek 6 again not a true trek film

28. Skippy - June 22, 2012

#27, you’ll need to elaborate on that assertion that the Wrath of Khan is the “worst [sic] kind of trek film.” Or don’t–I have a feeling that whatever you’d write would be a big pile of nonsense.

29. No Khan - June 22, 2012

@9 there are new generations out that haven’t seen the movie. I guess they don’t matter.

30. symar - June 22, 2012

Dear HBO, If you’re going to run three ST movies, go with II, III, and IV as they are all connected. “I” stands (and stands, and stands, and stares speachlessly at a starship viewscreen) alone.

31. LizardGirl - June 22, 2012

Hmph, that was short. Pure laziness for not including the whole interview!

32. Pat Payne - June 22, 2012

@29 — except the cat IS out of the bag. It’s like everyone and their uncle, even people who have never seen “Citizen Kane”, know that “Rosebud” was Charles Foster Kane’s sled. Or that Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker’s father. Or that Rick Blaine shoots Maj. Strasser after making sure Viktor and Ilsa get “on that plane.” Or that Norman Bates’ mother is already dead. These are all plot twists that have been parodied and referenced so often in pop culture that you would have to actually actively AVOID being spoiled on these films.

I can see where some movies that have been out for decades may need spoilers because they may not be as omnipresent in pop culture, such as the identity of “The Third Man” (which I won’t spoil here — go see the movie, it’s a good’un).

33. LizardGirl - June 22, 2012

ADDITION TO POST 31: Not on trekmovie.com’s part btw, but on LA Film Fest’s part.

34. danielcraigismywookiebitch - June 22, 2012

25, The Overture, was played theatrically ? you do know this right
just curious as to why you are indicating that the overture was never part of the movies theatrical release.(perhaps iam just reading your post wrong)

35. No Khan - June 22, 2012

@32 i disagree there were plenty of complaints from people when they released the ending scene on the cover of the Planet of the Apes dvd. Spoilers don’t need to be thrown in peoples faces that’s all. I would have been pissed if i had wanted to sit with my 9 year old and he saw that cover. I have news for you not everyone is up on pop culture either.

36. danielcraigismywookiebitch - June 22, 2012

30 they played the first 3 one night, and the next night they played the 4-6. it wasnt about having 3 films connected it was about showing all 6 trek films in essence back to back over two nights

37. danielcraigismywookiebitch - June 22, 2012

35 those complaints were not about ruining the ending, which having it depicted on the cover didnt do, cause even if you never have seen the movie, in this day and age pretty much everyone has the seen the simpsons Planet of the apes musical parody, which also parodies the ending.
the complaints were over how bad the cover art was.
something that still takes place today you can find whole websites of people complaing about home video cover art.

38. Adam Bomb 1701 - June 22, 2012

@#34 – The overture in “TMP” was played during its theatrical release. I should know. I saw the pic in theaters seven times. Including its first and last days playing in the New York/New Jersey area. It’s also heard on the videotape and DVD release. I can’t speak for the Blu-Ray, as I don’t own it. But, the overture is never heard during the movie’s TV runs; it begins at the Paramount logo. I’ve seen the TV version on each of its three ABC runs. I’ve also watched the pic on the HBO channels and in syndication. The overture is probably not broadcast on TV because the channels don’t want to run what they may feel are three minutes of dead air.

39. Quatlo - June 22, 2012

Lousy video production and editing by somebody associated with the El Lay Film Fest. But at least we know what became of Daria from Beavis & Butthead.

40. Meni - June 22, 2012

I was at the event. Nimoy was gracious and funny, but also appeared to want to wrap the interview up quickly. The film itself was a small revelation. I hadn’t seen it in quite some time and was struck by its humanity and, for today’s standards, relatively casual pace. Montalban was incredible. Best and most iconic Trek villain by a wide, wide margin. He walked an amazing line between camp and terror. The script is by far the tightest, most thematically consistent of all the Trek films. I still find Abram’s brilliantly paced Star Trek to be the most entertaining and dazzling of the bunch, but it still takes second place to the more emotional and better written TWOK.

41. Mantastic - June 22, 2012

@29 Not knowing that Spock died in Star Trek 2 (especially just from seeing the title to 3) is like not knowing that Darth Vader is Luke’s father from Empire Strikes Back.

42. Shannon Nutt - June 22, 2012

How many people are aware that the “remember” mind meld actually harkens back to an original episode where he mind melds with Kirk and says “forget”. I think it was in Requiem For Methuselah.

43. Vultan - June 22, 2012

When it comes to famous spoilers like Spock dying in TWOK, it’s very hard to impossible to avoid them. Growing up, I knew well in advance the plot twists of Planet of the Apes, Citizen Kane, the Empire Strikes Back, Psycho, etc. before I actually saw them.

It’s kind of sad, but by avoiding those spoilers I would’ve also avoided many classic episodes of The Simpsons—back when the show was really clever and firing on all cylinders.

I think the trade was worth it.

44. Vultan - June 22, 2012

Also, Seinfeld mentions TWOK in an episode:

“It was a helluva thing when Spock died…”

45. Aurore - June 22, 2012

Leonard Nimoy.

The man is amazing. I love him.

46. Jonboc - June 22, 2012

Anyone who thinks that everyone 25 and under knows anything about Star Trek much less Spock dying in WOK is seriously out of touch. Trek’s imprint ain’t what it used to be folks…the world is a much bigger place.

47. MJ - June 22, 2012

William Defoe just confirmed to me why he is one of my favorite actors with the quote below. This contrasts with the traitor Mark Strong, who jumped on the anti-John Carter bandwagon a week after its release.

“Dafoe says that the negative publicity affected the movie in untoward ways. “In my experience, sometimes a movie just hits at the wrong time, gets the wrong press, or gets the wrong representation, and it gets misunderstood.” He continued: “Sometimes it’s hard for people to really decide, too. There’s so much reporting about the business and that other stuff, that they really get distracted by some of those things, and then it influences some of the weaker-willed people to not have their own opinion.” ”

“The actor, whose performance was turned into the animated, multi-limbed Tarkas via motion capture (it’s one of the best things about the movie), is also disappointed because he won’t get to explore the character in further “John Carter” sequels (an improbability at this point, barring some massive explosion in DVD and Blu-ray sales). “It sure doesn’t seem like [there will be a sequel], which is a shame,” Dafoe lamented. “This was the set-up for what could be a great series of movies. . . I was looking forward to doing a sequel, though, because I know something of where the story goes and the character of Tars Tarkas. He’s big, and the relationship with John gets more intense.” “

48. MJ - June 22, 2012

@27 “star trek 2 is the worste kind of trek film i am not saying its a bad movie if fact i love the film just not a trek movie…tmp is a trek film and so is 5…the one i love the most is trek 6 again not a true trek film”

Huh???????

49. Red Dead Ryan - June 22, 2012

#46.

Yeah, sadly I have to agree.

As great as “The Wrath Of Khan” is, it’ll never be seen in the same light as the “Star Wars” films, “Alien” and “Aliens”, the first two “Terminator” movies, “2001 A Space Odyssey”, “Jurassic Park”, etc.

Those are A-list movies. Unfortunately, the mainstream sees TWOK as a B-list film and usually pass it over in favor of the “A-list” films.

I will say that J.J Abrams has the potential to make the first truly “A-list” Trek movie. He came close with the first one, but it didn’t do so well overseas.

If the sequel becomes a smash hit world wide, it will become the first Trek movie to join the A-list.

50. Red Dead Ryan - June 22, 2012

#47.

Thanks for posting that!

That proves once and for all that “John Carter” is a much better movie than the box office revenue suggested.

It’s quite a crime that it was marketed the way it was.

51. Red Dead Ryan - June 22, 2012

#27.

That’s one of the most asinine and dumb comments I have read in a long time. And I read a lot of asinine and dumb comments on this site every day.

52. Obsidian - June 22, 2012

Nimoy is a class act. Journalists are not.

53. Shilliam Watner (Click for Trek Ships Poster) - June 22, 2012

47. MJ – & 50. Red Dead Ryan -

I was sooooo disappointed at science fiction fans for not supporting John Carter. I absolutely loved the movie, and the fact that it was unlike anything we’d seen, in spite of the fact the books have been an inspiration to many films.

I hear fans complaining all the time about the lack of originality in films today, the proliferation of sequels and remakes, then John Carter comes out, and these Bozos stay home!

So guess what? Now we’re going to get even more sequels and remakes, and we have nobody to blame but ourselves, or, more specifically, those of us who didn’t go to the movie.

Willem Defoe has been a favorite of mine for a long time, and he was great at Tars. I hope that some miracle happens and he gets to play him again, but that is highly unlikely.

54. Shilliam Watner (Click for Trek Ships Poster) - June 22, 2012

27. pilotfred – ???? My friend, I think you are on autopilot :-) You do realize, don’t you, that what you said is your opinion, and not fact? Please tell me you know this.

55. Brett L. - June 22, 2012

Meyer & Bennett 1982 = Abrams & Co. 2008

56. Caesar - June 22, 2012

55: You wish

57. Sebastian S. - June 22, 2012

# 27.

I’m afraid I simply don’t know what you mean.
You like TWOK and TUC even though they’re not “good” ST? TWOK is a direct sequel to a TOS episode which highlights the main characters and deals with issues of the ethics of scientific power and responsibility. Just how is that not good ST?

TUC (which you claim to enjoy) was about the (then) current social issues of the time (Chernobyl, the collapse of the Soviet Union) wrapped in ST-TOS style metaphor and a lesson about judgment and prejudice. Again I ask; how is that NOT good ST? It’s what ST does BEST.

I would agree to your point that ST-TMP is better than generally acknowledged (even if it’s largely a remake of “The Changeling”), but STV?!? Sure, it had it’s moments, but how is it ‘better’ ST than the other examples? Sybok looks for God. Drags the Enterprise crew along. Finds hostile alien instead. Not really a lot to chew on there, sadly…

Maybe I missed your point. So did others apparently….

58. Vultan - June 22, 2012

#53

There’s no one to blame for John Carter’s lackluster box office but Disney’s marketing department. They dropped the ball. They cut the name off.

And sorry to say… director Andrew Stanton may have had something to do with it. I heard him on BBC radio shortly before the movie’s release, and he came off a bit… well, arrogant and aloof about the whole thing. When the interviewer asked him about cutting off “of Mars,” he said their focus group research told them they should, that people weren’t interested in sci-fi.

Guess he had never heard of Avatar and Inception… and District 9… and Star Trek…

59. Brett L. - June 22, 2012

@56
Regardless of what anyone thinks of those respective films, the undeniable point here is both Meyer and Abrams deserve credit for reinvigorating the franchise when it needed it most.

60. Shilliam Watner (Click for Trek Ships Poster) - June 22, 2012

58. Vultan – I never head any interviews with Stanton so I can’t speak to that but I don’t disagree with you about the marketing. It was terrible. They had no idea what they had and what to do with it, which makes me wonder why they decided to make it in the first place.

I should have mentioned that aspect as well, but I still blame fans/movie goers as well, and quite a bit so. Bad marketing or not, I went to see the film, some of my friends when to see it, why didn’t more? I’d seen plenty of Star Wars, Star Trek, Alien (and it’s successors), and I was excited to see something new.

I’d never read the novels, and knew very little about John Carter, frankly. I went in very much a John Carter, Warlord of Mars virgin. And it was really fun to lose that virginity. Too many people I know, fans of movies and sci-fi in general, shrugged their shoulders and said “Meh, I’ll wait for Netflix.”

That attitude had as much to do with the film’s failure as its marketing. That is, of course, my opinion, but it feels real to me. But maybe nearly every sci-fi fan saw the movie, but the general public stayed away. Maybe we fans did all we could. But I just don’t feel like we did.

Anyway, good point about the marketing and thank you for bringing it up. Whatever is to blame, it is one of the biggest disappointments in my science fiction life, right up there with the cancelation of Firefly.

61. Jim Nightshade - June 22, 2012

yup st 2 did fulfill the prophecy at the end of tmp….and by the way…one of the most joyous positive hopeful ending of any great scifi flick `the human adventure is just beginning…`of course to me this alluded to mankinds adventure for the future as well….and kirks human comment bout spock at the elegy…great stuff…

62. Jim Nightshade - June 22, 2012

edgar rice burroughs john carter of mars was original for its time n did influence many later creations…me id luv to see a movie based on ee doc smiths books–skylark of space…the lensman series etc…

63. Shilliam Watner (Click for Trek Ships Poster) - June 22, 2012

61. Jim Nightshade – Agreed. Kirk’s eulogy was one of Shatner’s best moments. He was never better than in Khan, if you ask me. I think the story really connected with him.

64. Jack - June 23, 2012

63. And Meyer made him underplay it as much as Shatner possibly could.

65. Shilliam Watner (Click for Trek Ships Poster) - June 23, 2012

64. Jack – Good observation. Aside from his famous scream, Shatner was under control and really good. A very confident and complex performance. They never equaled the great treatment of Kirk after that film. In fact, they tried to reverse the whole Kirk-is-aging storyline, going to far as to have him rock climbing in STV. And I didn’t buy it.

TWOK was the most honest performance Shatner ever did in Star Trek. I wish they could have continued that, but it’s hard to make lightning strike twice in the same place.

66. Mark from Germany - June 23, 2012

Why didn’t we get e glimpse of Nimoys hairstyle and eyebrows? Why did he hide them with his cap? Maybe because his eyebrows where shaved because of his recent work on Star Trek?

67. Sebastian S. - June 23, 2012

# 58 and # 60

Agreed.
John Carter was a good film killed by either deliberate (Disney ‘punishing’ Andrew Stanton for his ‘arrogance’ and budget inflation; as I’ve read) or incompetent (not really a better alternative) marketing. Dropping “Of Mars” from the title was the BIGGEST mistake.

And dumping it in March was another seemingly deliberate act of studio self-sabotage (with a $250 million film?!? March is movie ‘off-season’ these days; it’s where studios put art-house and lower budget stuff). My guess is that they were very displeased with Stanton’s wild budget overruns and perceived arrogance, and that they knew that “The Avengers” and the new Pixar movie “Brave” would easily put them back in the black, so they shot their own film in the foot. Wouldn’t be the first time a studio exec sought ‘punishment’ for a maverick director (either through cutting his film or bad marketing).

While I’ll admit, the first half hour of JC had me doubting if it was going to be good or not (the pacing was very uneven at first, and the extended earth sequences made me wonder how far they were straying from the book), but it turned out to be a surprisingly engaging movie. And once it gets to Mars it was very faithful to the book (“Princess of Mars”; the 1st book in the series). The movie did not deserve to be strangled in it’s crib like that.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it one more time; this movie will be discovered by others down the road….
___________________________

# 63 and # 64

Agreed.
Told my wife the other night (as we watched TWOK) that it was easily Shatner’s best outing as Kirk. Nick Meyer (according to the commentary) would ‘wear Shatner down’ by doing repeated takes. By his last take, he was usually in lower energy (and thus was less ‘hammy’) and those would be the takes Meyer would use. You see it in TUC as well. Shatner is VERY low-key (as opposed to his almost cartoonish performance in STV).

68. Sebastian S. - June 23, 2012

Anyone else having difficulty posting on this thread topic? My first attempt didn’t seem to ‘stick’; seems to be working now…. I think. ;-)

69. The Hand - June 23, 2012

Awesome Star Trek custom made iPhone covers

http://www.applecases.net/movies_iphone4S_covers/Star_Trek_iPhone_cases

70. Phil - June 23, 2012

I consider myself a fan of TWOK, but I’ve also held an opinion that most would consider heresy, that the producers should have left Spock dead. I can’t help but think that it would have created the opportunity to re-invigorate the franchise much earlier by introducing stronger characters and possibly being more story focused, instead of devoting 2 of the next 4 movies to restoring Spock. It just seemed like opportunity lost to me.

Let the tarring and feathering begin… :-)

71. Sebastian S. - June 23, 2012

# 71. Phil~

Dramatically speaking for the movie itself (and if there were no intentions of doing a sequel), I’d agree with you.

As did Nick Meyer apparently; who refused to shoot the Genesis planet coda sequence (it was done by producer Bob Sallin and a 2nd unit). And he also had nothing to do with ST3 because, as he said in his audio commentary and in interviews, “I don’t do resurrections.”

Spock had the BEST funeral in all of ST. It’s kind of a dramatic cheat knowing he’s coming back in the sequel…. although I’m glad he did. I know. Hypocritical, but true….

72. Dr Beckett - June 23, 2012

I personally feel that Shatner also gave a really good and emotional performance in Star Trek 3. His reaction to Davids death, and the destruction of the Enterprise being the most notable.

73. Shilliam Watner (Click for Trek Ships Poster) - June 23, 2012

70. Phil – Not pulling out any tar or feathers here. To me, TWOK as the last TOS move. What came after were just higher-budgeted episodes of TOS.

Once they brought Spock back they kind of took away any real dramatic tension. You knew they weren’t going to kill anybody else off after that. The rest of the films were merely enjoyable at best, and unwatchable in one case (I won’t mention Final Frontier by name.) To me, TWOK was their finest moment. The attempt to strike lightning again with TUC and Meyer back in the helm was far from successful in my book, though much much better than the preceding movie, whose name I won’t mention.

74. Vultan - June 23, 2012

#60

I think the main reason a lot of people stayed away from John Carter (other than the bad marketing) is that in a roundabout way we’ve already seen it. I mean, there have been so many things influenced by it over the past hundred years, by the time it was finally made there wasn’t much original left in the old girl.

Still, it’s a good story anyway.

75. Jack - June 23, 2012

34 the theatrical release, without the overture – the version shown in theatres originally and not the TV version (which had new material)… he’s not saying the original didn’t have an overture — he’s saying that they showed the original version but did not include the original overture.

76. MJ - June 23, 2012

@74. Oh, come on, I saw it three times myself just to piss in the face of the critics and Hollywood types.

77. MJ - June 23, 2012

@72. Agreed. I know I will be in a minority on this, but Trek III is my favorite of all the movies.

78. Vultan - June 23, 2012

#76

So you gave money to Hollywood… to stick it to Hollywood types?
Okay.

79. Red Dead Ryan - June 23, 2012

#77.

“The Search For Spock” is one of my favorites as well. I think that it has gotten more appreciation from the critics over the years who initially disliked the movie. A lot of Trek fans too have changed their opinion of the movie. TSFS really expanded the Trek universe. And it had a profound influence on the subsequent films and shows. It also, sad to say, featured the last great performance by William Shatner before he started acting as himself in the next four films.

80. AuroraD - June 24, 2012

#27

Actually, TWOK is a classic example of Trek’s exploration of the human equation. Stop focusing on the starship battle scenes (don’t get me wrong, I love them) and pay more attention to the dialogue between the characters when they’re discussing life, death, getting older, and self doubt. Kirk really hasn’t acted this way since Balance of Terror, and it’s a great call back that this is a commander, that for all his supposed swagger and self confidence, really does at times question whether he’s “worthy” of being responsible for all those lives. Who else but Kirk would actually question whether his vengeance obsessed enemy was right to come after him? Most people would go, “Hey, this guy’s nutso, I’m innocent as a new born baby!”

Not every facet of human nature has to be explored via placing the trait on some alien face. Sometimes our own human face conveys the message quite well enough.

81. Sebastian S. - June 24, 2012

# 74 Vultan~

Agreed.

It did make me chuckle (and a bit frustrated) reading online reviews from critics not even old enough to shave or drink a legal beer going on about how John Carter was so ‘derivative’ of the Star Wars movies. I even read one online idiot who said the arena sequence (with the White Ape) reminded him too much of the Geonosis arena sequence in “Attack of the Clones.”

I almost laughed and cried simultaneously, like a mad scientist in a bad B movie. The ‘reviewer’ was stone-cold ignorant of the fact that John Carter predates the SW franchise by 65 years! And that even “Buck Rogers” and “Flash Gordon” (both born in the 1920s) were inspired by it. Not to mention the late Ray Bradbury and the late Carl Sagan; both of whom were personal heroes of mine.

Disney did a MAJOR disservice to the legacy of Edgar Rice Burroughs….

82. Aurore - June 24, 2012

seymour,

If you are here, AuroraD @ 80( whose post I enjoyed reading) is not the poster who promised to beat the truth out of you on another thread…

But…. you already knew that. I’m sure.

:)

83. Vultan - June 24, 2012

#81

Wow, that is sad. I hope those weren’t “professional” reviews you were reading, because any professional worth his salt would at least do some research before writing a review, giving his or her audience some background info on how this movie came to be.

But then that would require some effort (and even the smallest awareness of science fiction and fantasy).

Reminds me of a guy I knew in college. We were talking about computers, and I mentioned I got a new one. He asked me what brand it was. I said it was a HAL 9000. And with a straight face, he said: “I’ve never heard of that brand…”

So sad, Dave. So sad….

84. MJ - June 24, 2012

@81 @83

Agree with both of you!

85. Obsidian - June 24, 2012

My only gripe about TWOK is that Kahn and Kirk didn’t meet face to face and have a good old-fashioned fist fight, replete with Kirk-Fu.

86. Shilliam Watner (Click for Trek Ships Poster) - June 24, 2012

85. Obsidian – Yes! Exactly! They never even occupied the same room. I always thought Khan would want some payback, after Kirk beat him down with a flimsy, hollow plastic tube in Space Seed.

87. Sebastian S. - June 24, 2012

# 83 Vultan~

No, luckily they were amateur reviews; but they were still incredibly dumb. If they were professional, I would’ve thrown up in my mouth a little bit…

88. Jerry Modene - June 26, 2012

#44 – There was also a TWOK reference in “Mork and Mindy”, a final season episode in which Mork and Mearth beam down from Ork and accidentally catch Admiral Kirk in the beam (he’s dressed in a Starfleet smoking jacket not unlike Hugh Hefner’s and he’s carrying a champagne bucket). I forget what he says before he beams back up, but as he does so, Mork shouts, “Wait – you didn’t tell us if Spock dies!”

89. Jerry Modene - June 26, 2012

As for TWOK as a “true” ST movie – well, what it did was set a different tone, one that Roddenberry was rather put out by (by then, of course, he was on his peaceful human future kick and had no use for the “militaristic” Starfleet of ST’s 2-6).

I have an old paperback of the Best of Trek reprints that actually gives TWOK a fairly tepid review – far too long to quote here, but the gist was that the author believed TWOK to be too action-oriented.

It *was* considerably more action-oriented than anything that had been seen in ST before (all the TV fights notwithstanding) but as noted above, the characters were allowed to function as real people and not just accessories to the ship – which is one reason the actors all liked being in TWOK more than they did TMP. (The other reason is they got to exercise their acting chops a bit more.)

The way I always liked to look at it: TMP was “The Cage” – more science fiction than science adventure – the so-called “cerebral” approach. TWOK was “Where No Man Has Gone Before” – good character moments, but lots of action.

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