TrekInk: Review of Countdown to Darkness #2 | TrekMovie.com
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TrekInk: Review of Countdown to Darkness #2 February 19, 2013

by Mark Martinez , Filed under: Comics,Review,ST: Into Darkness Sequel , trackback

april The prequel to Star Trek Into Darkness continues this week with Star Trek: Countdown to Darkness #2, from IDW Publishing. We learn more about Captain Robert April and we’re briefly introduced to another iconic character with an alternate universe twist. Spoilers ahead.

Star Trek: Countdown to Darkness #2 (of 4)
Story by Roberto Orci and Mike Johnson, script by Mike Johnson, art by David Messina, ink assist by Marina Castelvetro, coloring by Claudia Scarletgothica, letters by Chris Mowry, creative consultant Anthony Pascale, edited by Scott Dunbier

Story

Surrounded by natives of Phaedus IV led by Captain Robert April, Kirk confronts the former commander of a previous Enterprise, reported dead twenty years ago. April explains that they’re in the middle of a terrible civil war and Kirk’s shuttle was shot down by the opposition. Still under attack, Kirk and Spock are forced to leave their crewmates behind in the shuttle and follow April to safety in a hidden cavern. Safe for the moment, April explains why he’s on the planet. Kirk learns that his shuttle crew has been captured by April’s adversaries, the Shadows. He also learns what April expects of him. Meanwhile, Uhura has the conn, and is notified of an unidentified incoming vessel. The ship’s pilot is a businesswoman making a delivery to Phaedus. She claims to be working for April. Her name is Mudd.

mudd

Oh my Prophets! It’s Mudd!

Review

The second issue of the Star Trek Into Darkness prequel delves into the reasons for Captain Robert April’s disappearance and his dissatisfaction with Starfleet policy. However, very little of what April has to say satisfies Kirk, and this makes sense to me. This Kirk doesn’t have the years of experience disregarding the Prime Directive that Kirk Prime had. Writer Mike Johnson is presenting us with a very intriguing contrast. There are several more interesting threads started in this issue–Uhura in command, Spock doing something rash, and, of course, there’s a Mudd like no Mudd we’ve seen before. David Messina’s art, with an able assist from Marina Castelvetro, brings it all together very nicely. I have one quibble about Robert April. He can look very different from one panel to the next, which is a little disconcerting. Nevertheless, another good read and I’m looking forward to resolution of all the story threads.

David Messina’s portrait of Uhura is the principal cover for issue #2. The B cover is a photograph of Kirk. The retailer incentive cover is a variant of Messina’s art cover which has been graded and slabbed by CGC. Only 100 copies are available. Messina’s cover art is always memorable. I’m not sure why IDW decided to offer a limited CGC-graded retailer incentive. The art is essentially identical to the A cover. I usually complain about too many covers. Now I can complain because I can’t get one of the covers offered.

 

Cover A: Art by David Messina and colors by Claudia Scarletgothica, Cover B: Photo cover



Cover RI CGC: Art by David Messina and colors by Claudia Scarletgothica

You can find Countdown to Darkness #2 at your local comic shop this Wednesday, February 20, and in digital format same day as print. See read.idwpublishing.com, IDW’s Star Trek app at iTunes, or the comiXology app at Amazon or Google Play.

Preview of Star Trek: Countdown to Darkness #2

Star Trek: Countdown to Darkness #2 Page 1 Star Trek: Countdown to Darkness #2 Page 2 Star Trek: Countdown to Darkness #2 Page 3 Star Trek: Countdown to Darkness #2 Page 4 Star Trek: Countdown to Darkness #2 Page 5 Star Trek: Countdown to Darkness #2 Page 6 Star Trek: Countdown to Darkness #2 Page 7

The trade paperback collection of Countdown to Darkness is scheduled for publication in late April, before the new Star Trek film is released. You can pre-order the book at Amazon.

Mark Martinez is an obsessive-compulsive Star Trek comics reader and collector. You can visit his website, the Star Trek Comics Checklist for more than you ever needed to know about Star Trek comics.

Comments

1. Seatbelt Blue - February 19, 2013

So the Alt-Enterprise is the Enterprise A? Or what? How does this work out?

This old mission would have been in the late 2030′s.

Oh snap. Did April have the NX-01?

2. Navy - February 19, 2013

A female mudd?

3. Galrand - February 19, 2013

Could Captain Robert April be the character that Peter Weller is playing?

4. tazzy2918 - February 19, 2013

And it looks like Harriet Mudd is Bajoran? Or am I reading too much into the earring and nose crinkle ?

5. Bamasi - February 19, 2013

Well Harry Mudd was married. Perhaps this is his wife or (shudder) daughter.

6. Flim Flam - February 19, 2013

He’s a she too. Or am I reading too much into that female look?

7. Peter N - February 19, 2013

This reminds me how much I miss crinkle-cut fries. But a little bbq sauce (mud) on ‘em.

8. Peter N - February 19, 2013

*with*

9. Manny H - February 19, 2013

Very Curious to know what Enterprise april commanded.

10. George Zip - February 19, 2013

That is quite interesting re/Aprl’s ENTERPRISE being decommissioned years before. It would explain a lot — and it might mean we’ll get to see the original (real) ENTERPRISE again.

Now THAT would be the surprise cameo of the century.

11. USAF - February 19, 2013

@10

You think we will see the old TOS version of Enterprise? Maybe NCC-1601?

12. SuperDeanio - February 19, 2013

April had Archer’s Enterprise. It’s still canon in JJ-Trek, it’s the only real explanation.

13. Josh C. - February 19, 2013

ARG does this mean I can download it on my iphone then? WHY DIDN’T I BRING IT WITH ME TO WORK??? heh

Will not read spoilers until I read it for myself…

14. njdss4 - February 19, 2013

How was April captain of the Enterprise 20 years ago if the ship is only a couple of years old by this point? It was newly launched in the 2009 film. Was there another Enterprise between the NX-01 and this one that we didn’t know about? Or is the current Enterprise the refit Constitution class and everyone’s just managed to avoid saying it until now?

15. Josh C. - February 19, 2013

14 – well, based on the “sample” on the apple site that I could read, April definitely was NOT the captain of Kirk’s enterprise. Whether he was the captain of the NX-01 or another one, well, I may have to wait to read the whole thing to know that….

16. rm10019 - February 19, 2013

fun stuff!

17. Luther Sloan - February 19, 2013

The alt Enterprise is a Constitution class refit. The Enterprise launched in 2245 (Captain Robert April) is the original Constitution class.

18. Pensive's Wetness - February 19, 2013

April’s Enterprise probably looked like the kelvin, that style of building. ILM did a pic not long after the other ships seen in ST2009 came out online…

19. njdss4 - February 19, 2013

@15: GAH! I’ll have a really hard time believing that the NX-01 was a relevant ship all the way up until a few years before the current Enterprise launched, but I’ll still have a hard time believing there was another Enteprise between the NX-01 and 1701 that was never mentioned until now. The NX-01 was launched around 2151, and Kirk gets his Enterprise around 2260. No way the NX-01 was kicking around for over 100 years.

It has to be that the current Enterprise is a refit of the original TOS Constitution, otherwise it would have to be the 1701-A, which we know it isn’t.

20. Moputo Jones - February 19, 2013

Multiple production sources say that the prime timeline’s NCC-1701 was commissioned in 2245, presumably with Robert April in command. Pike took command of the NCC-1701 in the early 2250′s. Kirk took command in 2265. In the alternate timeline (JJverse),the split in the timelines occurred in 2233 and the NCC-1701 wasn’t commissioned until 2258. According to the dialogue in the comic, April disappeared around 2238 in the alternate timeline.

So, Robert April must have commanded the NX-01 or otherwise designated Enterprise in the this timeline.

21. Pensive's Wetness - February 19, 2013

http://trekazoid.wordpress.com/2011/01/19/u-s-s-kelvin-era-enterprise/

took a bit. we can argue all to heck now about the NCC hull number now but in light to how everything else looked… it would make sence that we still would get a TOS looking ship in JJ-trek’s universe…

assuming that the comic is cannon, of course. Derp.

22. Tony Todd's Tears - February 19, 2013

They are just all over the place now.

23. Jovius the Romulan - February 19, 2013

“Well Harry Mudd was married. Perhaps this is his wife or (shudder) daughter.”

That is possible.

24. MikeyS - February 19, 2013

In the original ST09 script, Captain April and the original Enterprise were going to be destroyed when Nero attacked, but the studio didn’t like it so they switched to the Kelvin and Captain Robau. But since this never aired, they’re not bound to it.

I’m guessing the Constitution class Enterprise that April commanded was decommissioned when a larger, more powerful ship was needed in response to Nero’s attack. This would also mean that Pike may have commanded the ship after April was lost.

25. Moputo Jones - February 19, 2013

#14,#17: Kirk’s Enterprise can’t simply be a refit. Kirk says that April’s Enterprise was decommissioned and that he got the new Enterprise.

26. LogicalLeopard - February 19, 2013

20. Moputo Jones – February 19, 2013
Multiple production sources say that the prime timeline’s NCC-1701 was commissioned in 2245, presumably with Robert April in command.

*******************************************

Well, if that’s true, maybe this Enterprise is a refit, or maybe it is a new construction, but the old ship wasn’t distinguished enough to warrant the new ship getting a letter. Who knows how the lettering system works anyway, because the Defiant didn’t have a letter attached to it. Maybe it’s something they only did with the Enterprise because of it’s flagship status.

27. filmboy - February 19, 2013

My theory on this is that April commanded the original Constitution class Enterprise (the one we know and love). Kirk’s E is a refit. I would also bet that Pike served as April’s first officer on the original Enterprise and that Pike had something to do with April’s presumed death.

Now if we were to assume that Weller is April, then the question again becomes who is Cumberbatch?

Devin Faraci as Badassdigest is absolutely sure he is Khan. I am pretty sure myself and have been since Cumberbatch was first announced as being cast in the film. But if April is involved in STID, then what is his connection to Khan?

Could April have found the Botany Bay and decided to study the augments in an attempt to improve his own genetic makeup? Or was Khan and the augments found by someone else and then turned over to Starfleet, where some of them were experimented on. April was aware of it and decided to recruit Khan for some special mission.

I do believe Cumby is Khan and April will be in STID. The problem for me now is how the two characters connect.

28. LogicalLeopard - February 19, 2013

This Bajoran thing is interesting. At first I thought she was maybe a slave sold to Mudd by the Cardassians, but the Occupation started much later. I’m not sure how spaceworthy the Bajorans were at that time, I thought they had just sublight stuff before the occupation. Hmmnn….it’d be interesting if the Cardassians moved their time schedule up after the Kelvin incident and invaded Bajor 70-80 years earlier.

By the way, the writers must love the Kelvin incident, because it’s so minor, but could cause tons of justified changes to the time stream.

29. Moputo Jones - February 19, 2013

#26. Robert April in the JJverse went MIA in 2238, so even if Kirk’s Enterprise had still originally been commissioned in 2245, April wouldn’t have been on it. April’s Enterprise had to have been the NX-01 or an intermediate Enterprise never mentioned in the ST universe before.

30. Efren - February 19, 2013

i know this is canon but hopefully someone can answer is the star trek ongoing jjverse comics canon as well?

31. Moputo Jones - February 19, 2013

Where is boborci when you need him? My head is literally beginning to hurt.

32. Red Dead Ryan - February 19, 2013

I’m not sure “Mudd” is necessarily Bajoran. Her nose may just be crinkled because of her grin, and the style of earring is also worn by women in the real world.

33. Gary S - February 19, 2013

Any female characters cast in the film that are thus far unnamed?

34. Sasebonian - February 19, 2013

Wait a minute. All the alternate time line events are supposed to happen after Nero comes in. At that point, Archer and crew were already doing other things. Like being an older Admiral for one. But the NX-01 was to have been decommissioned after a 10 year voyage, stated on the last episode of Enterprise. So that means, there would’ve had to have been another Enterprise for April in this timeline. I’d like to think it was another NCC-1701 pre-refit? Technically they didn’t have to start using the A.B.C.D. etc until later. What do you think?

35. miketen - February 19, 2013

@21 I actually like the look of the Kelvinprise more than the JJprise that we got in the movies.

As for Mudd, that has to be a wife or daughter since she’s Bajorian.

36. Jack - February 19, 2013

31. Exhilerating, isn’t it? :).

Well, April does say Kirk’s in command of his (April’s) ship. Could be a refit, maybe April doesn’t know his ship was (destroyed, decommissioned?) or maybe it’s a figure of speech.

Hmmm. Could the nu-Enterprise be a massively refit NX-01? Just throwing shit out there. It would explain/retcon (sort of) why we never saw the NX on those observation lounge models and rec dec photos in the future/in the 1970s/80s. .

37. wildguesser - February 19, 2013

Cumberbatch’s is playing April in the new movie… lol

38. Dee - lvs moon' surface - February 19, 2013

I always knew that Mudd is worse when it is a woman … probably just me understand this joke … Whatever … LOL

39. njdss4 - February 19, 2013

@25: So it’s sounding like either they screwed up with the NCC number and the current Enterprise should be the 1701-A, or it’s a refit and there’s some new meaning behind a ship being ‘decommissioned’ and building a new one.

How did these guys not realize this wouldn’t make any sense?

40. Jack Kirk - February 19, 2013

JJ and Orci did say in an interviw that the Narada technology was scanned by the Kelvin and that those scans helped to boost the technology in the alternate reality. The technological advancements plus the destruction of Vulcan shifted the power and balance in the quadrant and changed everything. The Narada incident with the Kelvin replaces Balance of Terror as the Federations first encounter with the Romulans regardless of the era they came from.

Harry Mudd could be dead for all we know. That is the beauty of starting over again. It may be implied in the films that they encountered certain people or civilizations from the television show but I doubt we will see Trelane or Kirk fighting a Gorn in any future films.

Maybe Bajorans explored space earlier thus preventing an occupation or maybe the Cardassians invaded over a century earlier? Who Knows. Orci did say in a recent Star Trek.com interview that comics are not canon. (There was a huge inconsistency with the first Countdown and Film which a lot of people like to pretend does not exist but it does. In the film Spock implies that his encounter with Nero was the first time they had met. Why would you have to introduce yourself to someone you already know? I digress)

I don’t believe that this series will reveal much of anything about the movie. I think this story may drop a hint or two. This may be the mission they are on before they are called back to Earth.

41. Platitude - February 19, 2013

That would be super interesting if he commanded the NX-01. I wonder how much all this stuff ties in with the movie.

42. Jack - February 19, 2013

39. I have faith in these guys — I expect this to make sense eventually, even if it isn’t all spelled out.

Unless Damon Lindelof’s involved. Then the inconsistency can mean whatever we want it to mean.

43. Jack - February 19, 2013

38. I don’t get it. :).

44. George Zip - February 19, 2013

Doug Drexler did a refit sometime back of the NX-01 to give it more of the look that marked Federation ships for generations to come:

http://tinyurl.com/af9b7qd

Hmmm.

(I’m still waiting for some toy or model company to hose the works and announce pre-orders for Captain April’s ENTERPRISE (with pictures) or something)

45. vantheman77 - February 19, 2013

If they were to use Captain Robert April in future sequels, I can picture Liam Neeson playing him.

46. DUNN - February 19, 2013

The introduction of the female “Mudd” where she only labels herself by what would presumably be her last name seems to indicate definite Bajoranity, if the canon-meisters want to accept that as a word. Has there ever been a case of a female Bajoran marrying a human male and taking on his last name? Would that essentially be her first name, like it is represented here? I’m interested, but wary. I’m going to need some awesomeness on the level of Countdown to tie all these threads together in time for Into Darkness.

47. George Zip - February 19, 2013

#45 Y’know, I think I heard something that gives JJ some in-roads to the Star Wars actors…

48. StarFleetVeteran - February 19, 2013

Abrams Trek is garbage. Please, please, please for the love of God, let someone else have control of Trek. I know at least 20 or 30 people who would love to make a new Trek movie, and not only would they do it a million times better than JJ and his lackeys ever could, they wouldn’t charge nearly as much to do it.

49. DUNN - February 19, 2013

Also, the “April’s Enterprise” scenario interests me. Hoping for the Drexler model to be the definitive model, but the idea that the original Constitution class ship was damaged under April and upgraded to look the way it does in the 2009 film seems to be the most likely case. Also hoping for some kind of Enterprise cameo in future issues. T’Pol, “Admiral” (bleh) Archer, maybe even a novel-canon inspired revived Trip (maybe I’m reaching). I have liked the whole “surprise-cameo-right-at-the-end-of-each-issue-that’s-crazy-and-blows-my-mind-everytime” and expect more in the future.

50. Ello - February 19, 2013

April’s Enterprise was apparently decommissioned in 2257. April apparently disappeared in 2239. Kirk joined the Academy in 2255. If Kirk’s Enterprise is a refit of April’s, then the decommission date doesn’t fit the date of Kirk’s entrance into the Academy, since we know he saw the Enterprise at that time being worked on in Iowa. It also means that someone besides April commanded the Enterprise for another 18 years after April vanished.

51. Caesar - February 19, 2013

Why would the Kelvin thing have made Mudd a woman and a bajoran?

52. Curious Cadet - February 19, 2013

@33. Gary S,
“Any female characters cast in the film that are thus far unnamed?”

Heather Langenkamp

And of course, if April actually survives into the movie (i.e. not killed in the prequel comic), he will be played by Nolan North, not Weller.

53. Darkwing - February 19, 2013

So maybe that’s April’s Enterprise crashing into the city in the trailer, because that ship has the silhouette of a more TOS design? Just a thought.

54. Jack - February 19, 2013

51. (In best Ashton Kutcher voice) it’s the butterfly effect, man.

I know.

Again, I’m hoping they’ll have some not-painful explanation. Note too that Anthony’s somehow involved, which is encouraging…

So, does this mean he knows the plot of STID?

BTW. Is it me, or do these phasers look way cooler than the ones in the last movie?

55. SherlockFangirl - February 19, 2013

Thanks for deleting my comment. :-)

56. Curious Cadet - February 19, 2013

@26. LogicalLeopard,
“maybe this Enterprise is a refit, or maybe it is a new construction, but the old ship wasn’t distinguished enough to warrant the new ship getting a letter. Who knows how the lettering system works anyway, because the Defiant didn’t have a letter attached to it. Maybe it’s something they only did with the Enterprise because of it’s flagship status.”

The whole dash-A/B/C/D/E thing was a product of the Prime universe.

Look at how the U.S.S. Enterprise aircraft carriers are named in the Navy, they all have different registry numbers. It isStar Trek canon that the previous generation of Starships used a 3-digit registry number, so the simplest explanation is that April’s Enterprise is NCC-171, or something similar. It is unlikely in this universe that they would resort to a similar system.

And you raise an excellent point about the prestige of the Enterprise itself — keeping 1701 is like retiring a jersey number. It’s iconic, so rather than issue a new registry number for each new vessel named Enterprise, they append the iconic one. In the Alt universe the Enterprise’s iconic stature hasn’t been solidified yet.

All these people romanticizing over the NX-01 just aren’t being realistic. It was retired in 2161 and is in a museum. And people don’t seem to read or do any research, they just jump in with baseless conjecture often contradicted by the very source they are citing. We know that April’s Enterprise was built prior to 2237 in order for April to command it before disappearing. So possibly immediately after the Nero incursion, or possibly a Kelvin era ship. In the prime universe the Enterprise was 40 years old at the time of its planned decommission, so this fits with the standard life of a starship.

57. NCC-73515 - February 19, 2013

Is that the ‘April Giant Gun’ on his back?

58. Craiger - February 19, 2013

NX-01 wasn’t a Federation Enterprise it was just a Starfleet Enterprise, isn’t is how B&B said they got away with that? In DS9 Temporal Investigations said their were six Enterprise’s.

Pike and Kirk’s Enterprise launched in 2258. Pike said to Spock be careful to the ship she’s brand new, so its not a refit. Kirk said April’s Enterprise was lost In 2238. So their was another Enterprise in service between the NX-01 and the AU 1701.

59. Uberbot - February 19, 2013

Am I the only one who thinks this “Mudd” looks like a female Bajoran Joker in this…?

60. Phil - February 19, 2013

George Carlin is in the sequel?

61. Craiger - February 19, 2013

Actually Pike’s Enterprise would have had to launched sometime after the timeline changed in 2238. So I don’t think it would have looked like the original timeline’s Enterprise. Remember I think Orci said the Kelvin’s shuttle took scans of the Narada and Starfleet backward engineered the tech.

62. Craiger - February 19, 2013

Sorry I meant April’s Enterprise in post #61.

63. LogicalLeopard - February 19, 2013

32. Red Dead Ryan – February 19, 2013
I’m not sure “Mudd” is necessarily Bajoran. Her nose may just be crinkled because of her grin, and the style of earring is also worn by women in the real world.

**********************

Nope, that’s clearly a Bajoran nose. Human noses don’t crinkle that distinctively. Note that the highest ridge is pointed, and the ridges become less pointed as they come down. That’s Bajoran all day long. Combine that with the earring, and there’s no question.

However, about her identifying herself as “Mudd,” yes she could be a wife or a daughter, but I think another equally valid thought is that she’s just lying, and works with Mudd. The old Hollywood villian switcheroo, where one person claims to be the bad guy, but is just fronting for the bad guy.

64. Peter Loader - February 19, 2013

Strange how April looks a hell of a lot like Liam Neeson…

65. Craiger - February 19, 2013

I could see Cumberbatch just being John Harrison a disgruntled Starfleet office that doesn’t like their polices. Captain April finds them and they form a partnership to take on Starfleet. Weller would be Captain April. Both of them would use the Klingons as part of their plan. What if Khan the Augments aren’t in the sequel at all and its just about Captain April and John Harrison’s war against Starfleet?

66. Peter Loader - February 19, 2013

Have to agree on the point that April looks different from one panel to the next… in one of em he’s a dead set ringer for Dr Smith out of TV’s Lost in Space…

67. Garth Faction - February 19, 2013

So, I suggested Mudd might be involved with the movie. This probably makes it so Mudd won’t be, just like April won’t be. Misdirection.

But I still think Mudd would be an excellent character for the film, to be the one supplying terrorists with arms.

68. Navy - February 19, 2013

There is no way the NX-01 has any real connection to the 1701 other than being called Enterprise.

Canon states that the the Constitution class starship was the 17th major hull series, with 1701 being the first one produced. This actually makes some sense, as the “Constitution” would likely have been digitally prototyped and various systems tested separately from a complete ship to proof all of the designs. Enterprise would have been the first production run of the 17 series ships.

Following that logic, that means NX-01 was Earths first attempt attempt at a capital ship. That means there are 15 possible other hull variants that could have been named Enterprise but never became the flag ship.

The Excelsior was NX-2000 and later commissioned as NCC-2000 which suggests it was one of the first ships to skip the prototype phase and go directly into series production of the 20th hull design.

The Constitution Class Starship was to represent the largest ship ever built as well as the most capable ship. It was to be capable of defending, securing and expanding the federations interests.

From a Fan standpoint, I found the effort put into the new enterprise to be a complete waste. There is nothing about the new star trek that actually feels like it could be real. It’s all just show. Recoil on a hand phaser? Give me a break.

We should see “realistic” building and design considerations that mimic much of real life. Modern ships are built in a modular fashion, meaning sections of completed structures are assembled later into a complete ship. In the old days ships were built all at once, now we build them in pieces. In much the same way we should see modular design considerations in the new enterprise.

What we need is a Star Trek producer that isn’t afraid to spend the money to “design” the enterprise from the very first frame segment to the last fastener to assemble her. We need a “designed” enterprise instead of an artists rendition.

Matt Jefferies actually understood something about mechanical design and that’s why there are so many of us that are still in love with the Prime Enterprise. She made sense, she was clean and even still modern today. The interior sets obviously appear dated compared to what we are used to, but that could have been tastefully updated while being true to Jefferies design.

I think that it would be next to impossible to find a producer that not only understands trek, but has the vision to bring us more than another action flick.

69. Browncoat1984 - February 19, 2013

Why is it hard to believe the NX-01 was a relevant ship until a few years before the NCC-1701 launched? Remember the extensive refitting that the 1701 went through during the movies? Why is it hard to believe the NX-01 didn’t undergo similar refitting? In Star Trek Online, the Enterprise E is over 25 years old before it’s finally decommissioned (as STO is 25 years after the events of the new movies I believe).

And given that Admiral Archer and his prized beagle get a mention in ST09, and TPTB have said that Enterprise happened before the new movie, here’s what I think until I’m told otherwise – Archer was promoted to Admiral some time after the Romulan Wars and Robert April took over command after Archer. Unless there really was another Enterprise in between the NX-01 and the 1701 that we’ve never heard about. If that’s true I hope we get to see it at some point.

70. Craiger - February 19, 2013

#69 – The NX-01 can’t be a Federation starship because it goes against canon, the canon up until the AU. Unless maybe now the NX-01 can be a Federation Enterprise because of the AU? Didn’t Doug Drexler come up with a refit NX-01 incase Enterprise got picked up for Season 5?

71. LogicalLeopard - February 19, 2013

69. Browncoat1984 – February 19, 2013
Why is it hard to believe the NX-01 was a relevant ship until a few years before the NCC-1701 launched? Remember the extensive refitting that the 1701 went through during the movies? Why is it hard to believe the NX-01 didn’t undergo similar refitting? In Star Trek Online, the Enterprise E is over 25 years old before it’s finally decommissioned (as STO is 25 years after the events of the new movies I believe).

***********************************************

Because you’re dealing with a time period of almost a hundred years, and you’re dealing with a ship that was humanity’s first. There’s so much innovation afterward that the spaceframe likely wouldn’t support all of it. Look at the differences in the NX-01′s warp core and Nu-Trek’s multiple warp cores. It’s probably more logical to think that “Admiral Archer’s prize beagle” is really Porthos, with a genetically engineered lifespan than April’s Enterprise is the NX-01. At least, there’s a REASON to keep Porthos around.

72. The Sinfonian - February 19, 2013

2233 Narada Incident.
2234 Starfleet accelerates the Constitution Class project
2235 USS Constitution NX-1700 and USS Enterprise NX-1701 launch.
Enterprise NX-1701 under command of young(er) Robert T. April
2240 NX-1701 lost, presumed destroyed
2245 Starfleet begins Enterprise Class project
2255 Final assembly begins of USS Enterprise NCC-1701 under direction of Fleet Captain Christopher Pike.
2258 Events of Star Trek
2259 Months before Into Darkness events, Enterprise NCC-1701 under Kirk encounters Robert T. April and NX-1701 hidden in Phaedus System.
April has been manipulating information obtained from Narada scans for over 25 years… explaining many things about this alternate universe, including “pre-acquisition” of the Botany Bay DY-100 and its ‘inhabitants’.
Khan takes NX-1701 on forays into the Klingon Empire, eventually crashing it into Earth in an attempt to destroy Starfleet HQ… events of Into Darkness.
Summary April’s Enterprise was accelerated Constitution Class, NX-1701. Pike’s Enterprise Class Enterprise NCC-1701 was developed in response to loss of NX-1701.

73. Travis - February 19, 2013

More than likey Captain Robert April commanded the Enterprise NX-01 Refit! This ship was launched and in service after Captain Archer signed the Federation charter! Photo link below!

http://media.beta.photobucket.com/user/dgclaws/media/NX01refit.jpg.html?filtersterm=NX-01%20Enterprise%20Refit&filtersprimary=images&fromLegacy=true#/user/daedalus02/media/Starships/2011sotl_drexler_r021.jpg.html?filters%5Bterm%5D=NX-01%20Enterprise%20Refit&filters%5Bprimary%5D=images&fromLegacy=true&_suid=136130954359305004999005197884

74. Moputo Jones - February 19, 2013

#72. Nice, except in the comic Kirk specifically tells April that April’s Enterprise was decommissioned 2 years prior. It was never lost; only April himself was “lost.”

75. ILM Operative - February 19, 2013

The ship crashing into the bay, it is a NX–O1 design refitted to a more modern design like Doug Drexler’s refitted version with a secondary hull. We just don’t see it (secondary hull) but that ship and it’s NX-01 style pylons makes sense that it is Robert April’s ship. Think about it people, there is all the reasons that ship could have stayed in service longer. All they did was modernize it over the years as technology advanced.

76. Craiger - February 19, 2013

Just thought of something if Pike and Kirk’s Enterprise was launched in 2258, the AU also changed the date the Federation was formed. The Federation was formed in 2161. So now the NX-01 could be a Federation Enterprise.

77. Craiger - February 19, 2013

Sorry, ignore my last post I forgot the Archer’s Enterprise was in the 22nd Century and not the 23rd, duh. LOL.

78. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 19, 2013

Sorry, but I can see no logical reason why Archer’s prized beagle should be Porthos, but every reason to believe that this dog was a Porthos descendant.

79. Lee - February 19, 2013

Remember that some of the Trek Supreme Court are fans of the novels and other multimedia material. Maybe alternate reality April was captain of the alternate reality ringship Enterprise (see http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Enterprise_%28Declaration%29).

If April in the alternate reality was captain of the ringship, maybe that ship was more advanced or at least served as something other than a starliner in the alternate reality (even upgraded post 2233). If it was in service starting in 2195, it could still be operational as of the late 2230s and even the 2250s.

80. Captain Dan - February 19, 2013

However it plays out re: April’s Enterprise, it had to have been built/commissioned after the Narada Incident in 2233 in order to keep the Prime Universe intact.

The ship might have been under construction in the Prime Universe prior to the incident though and named Enterprise in the JJverse I suppose? Perhaps Starfleet saw a need for a flagship following the Narada incident and so, NCC-171 or whatever it is, perhaps a Daedalus class ship (USS Essex was NCC-173 and USS Horizon was NCC-176 in the Prime Universe from memory) or similar design was commissioned to fulfil that role?

81. marty - February 19, 2013

you guys are trying to make way too much sense out of the guys who created LOST.

the ncc-1701 enterprise IS the jj version of the PRIME enterprise.

what we know about the PRIME universe is junk. plain and simple… unless/until jj resets the timeline before he leaves us for star wars. (something is telling me that JJ is going to reset the timeline, but the crew will remember experiences.. unlike ‘yesterday’s enterprise’)

here’s what we know: there was another ship called enterprise, decommisioned 2 years ago(2257), that april was in command of in 2239.

anything about ‘there are only 6 enterprises in history’ is null and void now thanks to the narada incident. there could have been 12 enterprises by now.

here is what i think.. april’s enterprise was not the ncc-1701 OR nx-01, but some other random ship, like the ncc-###. OR, instead of giving the 1701-A title to this enterprise, they just gave it the old number and name, but it’s not a refit. pike has no JJ history as far as i know, so he could have been commanding the decommisioned enterprise, or just helping with the new enterprise in iowa.

but this arguement is all for nothing if the countdown comics are not canon.

which is a disappointment because in the first countdown series, data is alive, which to me should have been the last TNG movie. but that’s another thought for another day.

82. Craiger - February 19, 2013

The Prime Universe isn’t intact it has changed, Spock even said in ST 2009 that their lives and destiny’s have changed.

83. Galrand - February 19, 2013

There were also some Enterprises we’ve never seen on screen that were included on the rec deck in Star Trek: The Motion Picture. Maybe that was Aprils Enterprise, seeing as they were before the timeline split

84. Josh C. - February 19, 2013

My guess is that April commanded a ship that was a new Enterprise constructed as part of an accelerated ship building effort post-Narada incident with the Kelvin.

The NX-01 would have been 80 by the time the Narada incident and 100 by the time of it’s supposed decommissioning if it were April’s ship. I don’t care how many refits it might have gone through, that is pushing it.

It’s generally accepted that the prime 1701 was launched around 2245ish. It’s quite possible, if not probable that, as The Sinfonian suggested, the original constitution project got accelerated and the Enterprise was launched more in the range of 2238 to 2240.

It then served for 15-20 years or so before being decommissioned, in favor of the new Enterprise that we see.

The one problem with all of this is, of course, the numbering system. If Starfleet accelerated their ship building, they should be well beyond 1701 by the time Pike’s/Kirk’s Enterprise comes along.

Some solutions to that could be:

1) They reuse numbers, unlike the prime universe
2) They accelerated the building of cruisers and battle cruiser type ships, but ditched some smaller classes, making the total number of ships constructed about the same
3) If new numbers (eg 15XX, 16XX, 17XX) are based on class, they could have built more ships, but of fewer classes.
4) They either started the NCC-XXXX numbering scheme later OR applied it differently, or to a more select range of ships.
5) As the ST Techmical Manual sort of suggests, there isn’t any real rhyme or reason to numbering, in which case it can be whatever they want it to be

If anything but 1 is the case, then April’s Enterprise was likely something like NCC-701 or something, and was probably very much like the prime Enterprise, I would imagine.

85. BeatleJWOL - February 19, 2013

@82
Did you sleep through the first half of that scene?

When Uhura says “an alternate reality” and Spock agrees, they’re talking about their current existence.

The prime universe is alive and well, we’re just not seeing it except in the novels and such.

86. sean - February 19, 2013

#40

“In the film Spock implies that his encounter with Nero was the first time they had met. Why would you have to introduce yourself to someone you already know? I digress”

The only thing referenced is via the mind-meld with Kirk, and there’s no specific reference there as to when Spock and Nero met.

87. Curious Cadet - February 19, 2013

@84 Josh C.,

I had to look this up, but the Kelvin was NCC-0514.

Keeping in mind that the Kelvin was a stand in for the Enterprise Abrams originally wanted to destroy instead, that means they would have already anticipated this problem and the first Enterprise was likely NCC-0701, as I doubt Abrams would have wanted to start off his reboot with a dash-A …

88. AJ - February 19, 2013

Starfleet used Excelsior Class ships from ST3 through the 24th Century shows.

89. Josh C. - February 19, 2013

87 – yeah, I had just thought of that so I guess that means possibility 4 is out (at least the starting it later part, as it had already obviously started).

Also, if April was “Lost” 20 years ago, that’d be 2238, which means the “old” Enterprise would have had to have been around since at least then (a 5 year span to build a new, otherwise unplanned ship seems at least plausible).

But Yeah, I think it’s likely something like NCC-0701 (why the leading zero?). or NCC-07XX anyway (it doesn’t HAVE to be -01 even, really, though I would be surprised if it were anything but that).

So maybe April was “lost” on one of it’s very early missions, which of course begs the question, who captained the Enterprise in the interim? Pike the whole time? Someone else?

And of course, if April bailed, the question is why. Hopefully we get some clues tomorrow…

90. Craiger - February 19, 2013

#85 – Then why does the tech look more advanced? It was because the Kelvin shuttles too scans of the Narada and backward engineered the tech. The whole timeline is different. Kirk wasn’t going to get command of the Enterprise until 2264 now its 2258 Kirk had assignments on other ships. He was a Lt. on the Farragut before he got the Enterprise. Now that never happened. Spock never had a relationship with Uhura in the Prime Universe, ect.

91. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 19, 2013

“but this argument is all for nothing if the countdown comics are not canon.”

Yes, these countdown comics dealing with the alternate universe are canon, according to Bob Orci, unless what is shown/told on film overrides/contradicts what is in the comics, then the film becomes canon. Film trumps all.

JJ Abrams talks about Klingons -

http://www.heroesandhellions.com/daily-debriefing/j-j-abrams-talks-klingons/

92. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 19, 2013

We have no idea whether Spock had a relationship with Uhura while they were at Starfleet. Just because it did not get mentioned in TOS does not mean that it may not have happened.

93. Josh C. - February 19, 2013

Oh, here is the other thing about April. April was 75 in the TAS episodes, which Memory Alpha says took place in 2270, which means he was born in 2195. So if this is 2259-ish, that means April would be about 64 or so in this timeline.

OK…maybe I don’t have a thing about April after all. I was going to say that he seemed to look younger than he should be, but looking at him again, He probably could pass as someone in his 60s. Maybe a young-looking 60s, but still passable

94. Peter Loader - February 19, 2013

75. Not an NX class ship crashing.

Note: NX class ships were used in some episodes of DS9 and Voyager. They were used as the basis for Archer’s vessel in Enterprise.

95. BeatleJWOL - February 19, 2013

@94

I think you’re thinking of the Akira-class:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Akira_class

96. NuFan - February 19, 2013

April is holding Khan’s crew. Which means he gets killed by Khan pretty early in the movie.

97. J - February 19, 2013

Here’s a caveat nobody has mentioned.

In ST2009, we see the Enterprise under construction after the bar fight scenes. Specifically, we see the shuttle take off and the NCC-1701 on the engine as the camera pans away. Then, the movie fast forwards to “three years later” as Nero waits for Spock.

Therefore, the new Enterprise is named and well under construction in 2255 while April’s ship isn’t retired till 2257? Doesn’t add up to me.

Realistically, these comics are not canon, and we’re making too much of a non canon inconsistency. Haha!

98. Daniel - February 19, 2013

I looked up on IMBD and Nolan North looks exactly like April in comics. I wonder how this will play out.

99. Ello - February 19, 2013

@97

Been there. Mentioned that.

100. Curious Cadet - February 19, 2013

@93 Josh C.,

I have been thinking the same thing, which is why I believe Nolan North is playing April, assuming April is actually in the film and not killed off in the countdown comic, which I think is the most likely scenario.

Weller is the right age, but doesn’t look like this guy, and Orci has already said Weller is playing a new character he created. North is younger but can easily age up. I haven’t ruled out the possibility that Weller might be playing this April (assuming he’s in the film) but if so, it means Orci has really stretched the limits of “new character he created”, meaning that his “Robert April” is in name only and happens to also have been the captain of a starship named Enterprise as well as being the same age as TAS character. Hopefully that’s not what Orci did, because its a horrible cheat. It’s like creating a character of an obsessed 19th century peg-legged sea captain with a vendetta against a whale, naming him Ahab, and calling it original.

101. Travis - February 19, 2013

72. The Sinfonian: I LOVE your story sir and this may be the story of Into Darkness! Khan is def in it, Robert April is in it, and i do believe since this Khan has a new story… hes more of a terrorist trying to restart The Eugenics Wars from the year 1993-1996

102. Travis - February 19, 2013

68: NAVY: The Excelsior was given NX-2000 because she was a test bed of Trans-Warp Technology that failed beyond achievement! Once the Trans-Warp experiment was dropped starfleet pressed the Excelsior into full service hence NCC-2000! However in the year 2288 the Enterprise-B was being built and was a Excelsior Class Refit! in the year 2293 the Enterprise-B was offically commisioned and starfleet thought they had the Trans-Warp experiment fixed… guess what it failed again and the Excelsior classes were never test beds for Trans-Warp experiments ever again!

103. Curious Cadet - February 19, 2013

@97. J,
“the new Enterprise is named and well under construction in 2255 while April’s ship isn’t retired till 2257? Doesn’t add up to me.”

The current U.S. Aircraft carrier Enterprise will not be decommissioned until 2013, yet it was announced in 2012 when it was inactivated that there will be a successor named Enterprise.

I don’t know the ins and outs of naval traditions, but it seems to me that the April Enterprise could have been inactivated before it was decommissioned as well prior to 2257 while construction began on its replacement. It’s also possible that given the post Nero climate that Starfleet extended the service life longer than they intended, or that its successor took longer to build than anticipated.

Either way, I don’t really see an insurmountable problem with this. The Shuttle you mentioned was not called Enterprise and bore a different registry number than April’s Enterprise, not to mention presumably serving local traffic only assuming the other Enterprise was still in active service. Therefore there would likely be no confusion.

104. Jack - February 19, 2013

Is there any word on how these comics, especially the countdown, are selling?

There’s usually a snarky comment in these posts that only four (sometime eight) fans read them…

105. Red Dead Ryan - February 19, 2013

Bob has said recently that the nu-timeline comics aren’t canon. Not even the “Countdown” series.

He previously said that they were canon, but later retracted it, as it would paint them in a corner, creativity-wise.

Plus they said it was up to Paramount/CBS to make the ultimate decision whether they are canon or not.

As for the NX-01, “These Are The Voyages…” stated that the ship was retired after ten years in service. Of course, not many (including myself) consider that episode canon even though it technically is…

106. Navy - February 19, 2013

@102 – Travis

I understand that, I was making the point that the excelsior should have been the 20th Capital Hull for Starfleet.

Clearly though the Excelsior was an excellent design even if her transwarp was flawed, that class saw service past 80years, something the Consitution class didn’t see.

To use a modern comparison the B-52 is still in service, though constently upgraded. However, the Most modern B-52 doesn’t look that much different than it did when Boeing first produced them.

To me, this makes a refit of the nx-01 seem unlikely. I think Starfleet would have pushed the NX-01 to the maximum of its life span with regular updates, but to retrofit such an old vessel would be more cost prohibitive than building a new one to accommodate technological advancement.

Even the refit 1701-A could be seen as an excessive waste of resources and perhaps thats why the consitution class did not see 80years of service. Her hull probably could not hold everything Starfleet needed in a new ship. How many of the Constitutions were refit? How many were constructed new, to the refit standard and when was series production halted in favor of the new generation of ships? In the orignal series there were 12.

107. Travis - February 19, 2013

106: NAVY: I could say the same about the Ambassador-Class! That class was a complete failure! Starfleet had to go back to the drawing board and restart the screw-up in developing the Galaxy-Class!

As for the Enterprise-A that was my favorite ship out of all! Not only was she the longest and biggest Consitution-Class Refit built ( formly Yorktown ) but she also had the newest warp-core system that latest thru the Enterprise-D, and also The Enterprise-A besides the NX-01 Enterprise were the only ones to ever come home decommisoned!

108. Curious Cadet - February 19, 2013

@105 Red Dead Ryan,
“He previously said that they were canon, but later retracted it”

Do you have the link where he did this?

I vaguely recall him saying some of the things you mention, but I never got that he retracted his position that anything he oversees is canon. Only that he was clarifying what constitutes official canon. In other words, it’s just as he says, he considers the comics canon until superseded by a movie, which he himself reserves the right to do to keep from painting himself into a corner. In other words, we should expect that something depicted in the comics will most likely be contradicted by the movie, just as they were in the original Countdown series.

I found the link to the article in which he said the comics were canon, but I cannot find any reference to an actual retraction.

http://trekmovie.com/2012/07/17/exclusive-orci-says-star-trek-tv-talks-getting-real-declares-movie-tie-in-comics-game-as-canon/

109. Captain Karl - February 19, 2013

smh

110. Aurore - February 19, 2013

“I found the link to the article in which he said the comics were canon, but I cannot find any reference to an actual retraction.”
____________

It’s in the comments section of the article you linked to….

….But, was it really a retractation?

You decide.
Post 102, but, I would suggest you read the whole discussion… only if you are interested in doing so, of course.

Aaaah, all this is so confusing to me….

:)

111. Aurore - February 19, 2013

110.
retractation = retraction

:)

112. TyrannicalFascist - February 19, 2013

Fascinating…

I like the idea that April commanded something like the “NX-1701″ a pre-cursor to the NCC-1701. Maybe in the Prime Universe it was refitted to become the Pike-era Enterprise (as seen in The Cage and WNMHGB), then again for Kirk-era (as seen in the rest of TOS), then one last time as the TMP-era refit.

Seems kind of silly to refit a ship that many times, but we already know the original NCC-1701 had at least 2 refits, so 3 isn’t much more of a stretch. In “All Good Things”, the Enterprise-D was still around and had been refit at least once that we know of (twice if you count some of the changes in Generations). And the registry numbering on Federation ships doesn’t seem to follow a logical progression when it comes to NX ships. Remember Voyager encountered the USS Dauntless “NX-01-A” and no one thought that was out of place, even though it wasn’t a real ship.

So maybe in the Alternate Universe, the Enterprise NX-1701 was commissioned as before, but for whatever reason was refit at a different time, or maybe destroyed. Of maybe as some have said, this Enterprise WAS the Prime Universe’s “Pike-era” Enterprise, which was refit into the Alternate 1701 instead of the Kirk-era 1701.

So many questions… What a fun time to be a Star Trek fan!

113. Trek Is Dead!!! - February 19, 2013

I’m reading all the back and forth about Capt. April and which ship version he commanded. It’s annoying because you should all understand by now that JJ Abrams doesn’t give a shit about cannon. He never heard of April. What we see in these new films are what comes out of Abram’s head, not trek cannon. If he wants the Enterprise to be bigger then the Death Star that’s what he’ll do and we’ll all fork over our 13 bucks to see it. He doesn’t care about Trek history.

114. Adolescent Nightmare - February 19, 2013

I don’t care about trek history either.

115. Mr. Anonymous - February 19, 2013

@ 24

Wow, really? They actually wrote the original draft with the old Enterprise? I had no idea. Is this draft available anywhere to read? That’d be fun..

116. Jason - February 19, 2013

At this stage, for me anyways, Cumberbatch is looking more and more like he is playing the de-aged April.

This is just a bit of fan speculation, obviously, but I think it is very possible that Cumberbatch’s character might have augmented his own DNA in ways we don’t know yet… perhaps April found Botany Bay? Either way, using any character that involves being from a different time period doesn’t wash with me, as it was done in the movie previously, and I don’t think the creators would go down that road again.

In assuming Cumberbatch is indeed April, something must happen to him to seek revenge against starfleet, and this whole idea of him being within starfleet works for me. The de-aged April uses the alias of John Harrison to bring the fleet to it’s knees for some unknown reason, and sets up an interesting, albeit unoriginal narrative where the older more experienced April goes up against the unheralded Kirk.

A bit of fan speculation here, but what if April were to take back his decommisioned Enterprise setting the scene for the ultimate confrontation between the young Kirk in his ship, and April in his? Who knows, that crashing ship could very much be April’s Enterprise…

Just my .02

117. Curious Cadet - February 19, 2013

@116 Jason,

The biggest problem with reverse-aged April, is that April would be instantly recognizable to any Starfleet Cadet. Calling himself Harrison would be pointless. And Kirk specifically asks Harrison in the trailer who he is, something he would not do if he recognized him.

118. boborci - February 19, 2013

105. Didnt say canon was up to Paramount, said it was up to the fans which, it seems to me, had determined that only filmed Trek was Canon.

119. Ahmed - February 19, 2013

@Bob, so the comics are NOT canon, right ?

120. boborci - February 19, 2013

119. When I arrived on the court, I had read that canon meant only what was filmed. to suddenly decree that previous defenitions of canon are not the case would feel to me like congress voting for pay raises for themselves. So as a strict constitutionalist, to me, comics are not canon.

but they sure are close!

121. Ello - February 19, 2013

@120 Does animation count as being filmed? ;-)

122. rocketscientist - February 19, 2013

You know, speaking as an engineer, and also wrt hours of ST, I find it hard to believe that the Kelvin’s scans led to such a drastic improvement of technology. I believe Bob Orci used that explanation to explain the difference in appearance between the Prime Enterprise and the Enterprise in the 2009 film. I personally don’t think any explanation for the difference in how the ships looked was necessary, just like the explanation in ENT wasn’t necessary for the difference in apperance between the TOS and bumpy headed Klingons. It’s all just a difference in aesthetics and production seperated by decades. When you accept that, you can enjoy the story and characters of the 2009 film and just move on.

To get any significant technology boost from the Narada would likely have required capturing and boarding the ship, like I believe the Klingons did in the original Countdown series. I mean, the Enterprise scanned V’Ger too, and they weren’t able to create plasma energy weapons, were they?

WRT this discussion on April’s Enterprise, I just can’t think of any good explanation. Construction of the Enterprise Prime began in 2243 and it was launched in 2245. It was probably planned years in advance, like our present day military ships, aircraft, satellites, etc. are planned as well. Kirk was born in 2228 in both universes. That means that in the Prime timeline, he was 17 years old when the Enterprise was launched.

In the alternate universe, the Enterprise Alt was launched when Kirk was around 28 or so (he was 25 according to Chris Pine, when he entered the Academy and he completed his curriculum in 3 years). So, the 2009 film’s Enterprise Alt was launched 11 years later than the Enterprise Prime, in 2254. Let’s add 3 years or so for STID, putting it in 2257. If April dissapeared 20 years ago, that means he last commanded his Enterprise in 2237. This is when Kirk was only 9 years old, and it is 8 years before the launch of the Enterprise Prime, so it’s not that ship, as others have noted.

The only explanation is that there was another Enterprise between the NX-01 and the NCC-1701. It’s possible this Enterprise may have been rushed into service after the Kelvin’s destruction, but that only gives you a 9 year window for its service. If it’s not unique to the alt timeline, then it also existed in the prime timeline and was commanded by April. But, then, if that’s the case, why haven’t we ever heard of it before? Then again, there was no indication of the NX-01 until ENT. The only future production it ever appeared in was, of course, NEM. So, there is certainly a precedent for creating a whole new Enterprise. I don’t especially like that explanation, but it’s within the realm of possibility.

123. Historian_Levi - February 19, 2013

Those who are saying that its unbelievable that the NX 01 would still be in service durring the time frame of April being an Enterprise Capt,
I just want to point out. that atleast 2 episodes support that a ship could be in service that amount of time.
first off the Enterprise episode E2 established that the ship if modified and mainted could infact still be viable as a spacecraft for atleast 117 years. when in the expanse the crew encounters the NX01 that had been thrown back in time 117 years earlier and was now ran by the descendants of its original crew.

second All Good things has the Enterpise D still in service as Admiral Rikers ship many decades after it should have been decommisoned.

there is no reason that they coulnt do a retcon where the NX01 was kept in service and was indeed the enterprise that April took comand latter

Thats my thoughts on the matter what do you all think..

124. Obsidian - February 19, 2013

This thread has been one of the more fascinating discussions I’ve seen on here.

One possible solution to the numbering mess would be to say that the accelerated constitution resulted in a smaller NCC number. Maybe April’s Enterprise was the 1601?

And, like all ST fans, I’d give one of my grapes to see the TOS Enterprise on the big screen.

Bob, I don’t know about anyone else, but I personally take your comics as canon! Someone mentioned that the prequel comic to 2009 would make a great final TNG film. Bob, go to it! Get Brent Spiner a facelift and start filming!!! Do it before Leonard shuffles off to a better and happier place! And I’m sure you could figure out some clever way to get the Shat in that flick as well!

125. rocketscientist - February 19, 2013

I agree with Historian_Levi that there is certainly precedent for long-lived starships in Star Trek. We saw the Excelsior, Reliant, and Grissom class ships in TNG. The original Enterprise was 40 years old at the time of TSFS. The Enterprise D’s spaceframe was meant to last over a century.

So, I guess it is conceivable that the NX-01 could have been hauled out of the museum or mothballs 67 years after it was decommissioned. Maybe, after what the Narada did to the Kelvin, SF was so frightened that they hauled more ships out of mothballs, with quick refits as an interim plan until the newer ships, like the Enterprise Alt, could be created. This kind of makes sense, with the Narada’s attack pushing back the development of the Enterprise and its contemporaries, thereby necessitating the re-commisioning of old ships as a temporary measure.

It’s also possible that somehow the Narada’s attack led to some other event we don’t know of that would have necessitated the NX-01 and other old ships being taken out of mothballs.

Whatever the case may be, I think it’d be a good idea if they clarified exactly what Enterprise April commanded in the comic.

126. Red Dead Ryan - February 19, 2013

Bob,

I understand that you want to let the fans decide, but us fans can’t really agree on much at all in regards to non-filmed Trek, never mind “official canon” Trek. ;-)

But if you made the alternate timeline stories official canon, there would be some who wouldn’t anyway. I’m sure some fans don’t consider the non-TOS Trek shows and movies canon. Despite both CBS and Paramount declaring otherwise.

I think a lot of folks here consider your comics to be canon, especially since you guys plan to move on either after this movie or the next. So its not like there is a whole lot of material that is going to contradict each other (at least in major ways), unlike the Prime Universe stuff, where often the novels and comics would contradict the shows and movies, as well as each other.

I think most people here wouldn’t mind seeing your comics declared canon.

Most people who would be against that are generally non-fans of alternate universe anyway.

127. Phil - February 19, 2013

@123. It’s not unresonable to assume that Starfleet has a reserve fleet, with older ships. Stored in space, asides from cold they should still be functional. I think it was Geordi who had commented that the base technology hadn’t changed much in 100 years. There are vessels in the USN approaching 40, and numerous aircraft in the USAF that will be well over 50 when they retire.
If the NX design was solid, they may have been built for 30 or 40 years, so it’s possible there might be a few still flying ….

128. Historian_Levi - February 19, 2013

125, and 127
Exactly, . those are little details that some people might not recall off the tops of their head, durring these discussions.

Personally There is a big part of me that hopes it does turn out that April was a latter capt of the NX-01. And if so I am hoping that if so that means that perhaps we will atleast see a glimpse of the NX-01 on the big screen.

But if not these comic have definately been a fun read and its cool to think of the possibilties.

129. DJT - February 19, 2013

Oh my head hurts.

130. Historian_Levi - February 19, 2013

Also intersted to see how this female Mudd story plays out, and if she winds up in the movie as well. If so as someone else suggested, this would most likely who Heather Langenkamp ends up being.

131. Trekkiegal63 - February 19, 2013

Note to self: be careful what you wish for…

While I’m definitely happy to see new female characters added to the Trek storyline, as in very happy, to have that female be the coniest of all con artists, though… Ah, screw it. Hooray to female Mudd!

Downloading this pronto.

132. Admiral_Bumblebee - February 20, 2013

Maybe in this timeline, there is A, B, C etc. to carry on the numeral. Maybe a decomissioned or destroyed ship that is replaced just gets the same registry-number…

133. Admiral_Bumblebee - February 20, 2013

I meant that maybe there is NO A, B, or C in this timeline ;)

134. Skulltrail - February 20, 2013

In the second issue you see that April’s Enterprise is the original E from TOS where April had his First Officer named Alex Marcus! If you calculate a bit it would fit well with the rumor that Weller is playing Carol’s dad!

135. StarryBun - February 20, 2013

There wouldn’t have been an A, B, C, D, etc. going on yet until Kirk’s command of *his* first Enterprise concluded.

I believe it is generally accepted that, at least in the prime universe, it was Kirk’s famous first five-year mission as captain of the Enterprise that made the Enterprise of the Federation as famous as it became. I know I’ve read that in more than once source., just not sure where. It’s also the accepted reason why Starfleet started using the Enterprise mission patch/badge on all ships and etc. after TOS.

Regardless, that makes plenty of sense to me as to why the JJ Enterprise isn’t an “A” if there was one prior, as Kirk hasn’t had his famous five-year mission yet. So for now, just follows how other ships in the fleet carry on older ship names, same name but different registry, perhaps.

136. SpudUk - February 20, 2013

Cracking discussion going on here!

To me, the most logical answer is that April’s Enterprise was probably an accelerated Constitution class to test tech scanned from the Narada. Something like this:

2233 – Narada Incident
2234 – Construction of the Constitution Class ships is accelerated as a test-bed for scanned Narada technology, utilising Kelvin class hull components
2235 – USS Enterprise NX-1701 launched
2240 – Cpt Robert April supposedly killed in action
2254 – Successful testing of Narada technology sees the first fully commissioned Constitution class ships enter construction
2255 – USS Enterprise NCC-1701 seen under construction
2256 – USS Enterprise NX-1701 Decommissioned following successful testing
2258 – USS Enterprise NCC-1701 Commissioned and Launch

However, there are little bits here and there that do make me concerned for Trek. I am a real support of the new film series, but I do think that sometimes Trek fans love of history and canon gets overlooked for a “good story”, which I fear is to the detriment of our much loved universe, alternate or not.

That said, so happy Bob Orci continues to fight for the fans on the “Supreme Court”

137. SpudUk - February 20, 2013

Of course, if we ignore registry suffixes, then none of it really matters!

On the Mudd Bajoran front, it’s not impossible to suggest that the Narada incident caused the Klingons to accelerate their contact and following wars with the Cardassians, which in turn would have accelerated the Cardassian first contact with Bajor. Either that or Federation expansion has accelerated contact with Bajor.

Either way, early contact with Bajor does make sense as a result of the Narada incident.

138. Aix - February 20, 2013

!!! @ Mudd

139. chrisfawkes.com - February 20, 2013

The Enterprise in the film was not the first Enterprise. Not sure where that idea originated.

Remember what Scotty did to Admiral Archers prize beagle? You remember what ship Archer once captained?

140. NuWisdom - February 20, 2013

@137 which might mean NuKirk & crew might eventually have to deal with The Dominion :S And Kirk (or Spock) could be named Emissary of the Prophets. Lol

141. Nuallain - February 20, 2013

#56: “And you raise an excellent point about the prestige of the Enterprise itself — keeping 1701 is like retiring a jersey number. It’s iconic, so rather than issue a new registry number for each new vessel named Enterprise, they append the iconic one. In the Alt universe the Enterprise’s iconic stature hasn’t been solidified yet. ”

Indeed, ISTR that’s what Gene Roddenberry himself said. As well as that, in his novelization of TMP, Roddenberry says that the Enterprise was the only Constitution Class to come back from its five year mission with both ship and crew mostly intact so it was used as pro-Starfleet PR fodder among the public (Roddenberry also says in the novel, IIRC, that Kirk’s promotion to Admiral and a desk job is to keep him a living, iconic public hero rather than a dead man in space).

So, yes, in the new universe the Enterprise hasn’t established itself as a public icon yet. and there’d be simple renumbering rather than the ‘retiring the jersey number’ equivalent of the letters.

142. Killamarshtrek - February 20, 2013

Why are we focussing on what came before Countdown to Darkness? It’s an altered reality, anything (after the day of Kirk’s birth) goes!

What we should be focussing on is what comes AFTER Countdown…
What part does April take in it? Why is Cumberbatch using his gun? Where (if at all) does Kahn fit into this? ETC….

143. Josh C. - February 20, 2013

NOOOOO the comic isn’t available in the Comixology store on android yet (yeah, I decided to switch from my ipod touch to my google nexus for the comics. MUCH easier to read…)

Anyway, I looked at Comixology’s weekly digital releases, and Countdown to Darkness #2 wasn’t even listed there (see: http://blog.comixology.com/2013/02/18/comixology-new-releases-for-the-week-of-february-18th-2013/) so I have no idea what’s up with that.

It does appear to be available for download in iBooks, though…

144. SpudUk - February 20, 2013

@141

I’ve always felt that was the worst retcon out there. The delta shield becoming the starfleet symbol happened just because it looked cool and it had become part of the public consciousness, so for future films and series it made sense. Trying to make up som BS about the Enterprise being the best ship in the Universe so they changed the WHOLE of starfleet to honour it is just pants.

@139

It is the first FEDERATION startship Enterprise, the NX-01 was part of Starfleet, but not a Federation Starship, supposedly anyway

145. Josh C. - February 20, 2013

why are people obsessed with the idea that April’s ship, if it wasn’t the NX-01, HAS to be a 1701 as well, and shoehorning it into scenarios. There is pretty much zero real reason why it should be a 1701. NCC-701 maybe, but 1701? doubtful.

146. CoolPT - February 20, 2013

Maybe April’s Enterprise is the ship that crashes in the new trailer??

147. Lee - February 20, 2013

At this point, only one boborci can give us answers (or at least let us know if CtD issues 3 and 4 will provide answers regarding April’s Enterprise).

148. XS - February 20, 2013

Do your homework.

Dulmer and Lucsly: There were five Enterprises… Six…

Excluding the NX-01 (which was an Earth Starfleet ship and decomissioned in 2161, after Federation-Starfleet was found), there is no way an other Enterprise was comissioned until 2245 (Prime Timeline)…

As simple as that… why don’t they look up the facts and make up their own thing…

149. rogue_alice - February 20, 2013

I AM SOOOO CONFUSED.

150. Check the Circuit - February 20, 2013

Interesting thought that John Harrison could not be a de-aged Robert April because people would immediately recognize him because of old photos/holographs of him as a younger man that are presumably floating around.

I think it’s very plausible for him to go unrecognized. How common is de-aging in the 23rd century? I’m assuming it isn’t. So people would have no reason to see Harrison and say you ARE a younger Robert April. They might say…”Wow! You look just like a young Robert April. I bet you get that all the time.” But they would have no reason to think he IS April. (Is cloning common place in the 23rd century?)

That’s why the Superman/Clark Kent disguise works. No one expects a god-like being to be living among us with a secret identity so they wouldn’t be looking at the guy sitting next them and thinking…hmmmmm, could be?

151. Josh C. - February 20, 2013

Boo. I tweeted Comixology on twitter re: Countdown to Darkness #2, and they responded:

“Unfortunately, we don’t have an official ETA yet for the release of that book.”

Soo…I’m not sure what is up with that

152. Josh C. - February 20, 2013

@150

that thought had occurred to me since the TAS episode that included April actually DOES involve de-aging (albiet, by entering into a sort of anti-time universe). I’m not sure how April could pull that off in our universe, though, though I suppose it’s possible.

I think Harrison being April is unlikely, though I’m sure we’ll probably find out one way or another by issue #4. As far as I know, Earth wasn’t really all that into cloning, probably for much of the same reasons they largely banned genetic engineering.

153. bmar - February 20, 2013

Completely unrelated to this discussion, but an interesting article about TOS mortality rates – and the surprising conclusion that you’re more likely to die in a Gold uniform than in a Red one.

http://www.significancemagazine.org/details/webexclusive/4381371/Keep-your-redshirt-on-a-bayesian-exploration-of-character-deaths-in-Star-Trek.html

154. Moputo Jones - February 20, 2013

#152.

Agreed. April’s de-aging occurred under specific circumstances in an alternate universe. Commodore April just happened to be on the NCC-1701 as it was chasing a ship into an alternate universe. And then, of course, they found a miracle solution to return to the PrimeVerse. There is absolutely no reason why April would be de-aging in the JJVerse.

155. Crod - February 20, 2013

It would be so satisfying if April’s ship was the original Ent.

156. Ello - February 20, 2013

Where did all this de-aging nonsense come from? Just because in the one TAS episode April was in there was de-aging? Way to think outside the box.

157. edshrinker - February 20, 2013

What bad business. I have been trying to give them my money all morning and they still haven’t released the comic. It’s digitally loaded, all they have to do is push a damn button to release it. I am getting very irritated and about ready to just wait another day and d/l it for free. Bad bad business.

158. edshrinker - February 20, 2013

Now it’s being featured on IDW, but a message pops up that it is not available for digital viewing. What??

159. Jeyl - February 20, 2013

With this whole non-canon business, it feels like buying these comics is the same thing as buying theme park currency that doesn’t work in any of the stores. It’s official and was done by the same people who made the park, they’re just not accepted by anyone.

160. ż - February 20, 2013

“why don’t they look up the facts and make up their own thing…”

To quote: “Because we can”

161. LogicalLeopard - February 20, 2013

159. Jeyl – February 20, 2013
With this whole non-canon business, it feels like buying these comics is the same thing as buying theme park currency that doesn’t work in any of the stores. It’s official and was done by the same people who made the park, they’re just not accepted by anyone.

*********************

Well, the point of the comics is the same point of the novels – to satisfy fan desire for more Trek. Some elements from books and comics may be used in the movies/television shows, so they’re not entirely worthless. Perhaps you can think of them as providing an unofficial backstory to enhance your appreciation of what’s happening on screen, like the backstories actors give their characters.

162. LogicalLeopard - February 20, 2013

156. Crod – February 20, 2013
It would be so satisfying if April’s ship was the original Ent.

***********

I think that is what is going to happen.

163. Curious Cadet - February 20, 2013

@150. Check the Circuit,
“I think it’s very plausible for him to go unrecognized. How common is de-aging in the 23rd century? I’m assuming it isn’t. So people would have no reason to see Harrison and say you ARE a younger Robert April. That’s why the Superman/Clark Kent disguise works.”

Superman/Clark Kent works because it is absolute FANTASY. The longest running joke in that franchise is how absolutely ridiculous that conceit is. Trek is supposed to contain a modicum of reality and indeed be our future. Such things don’t happen in the real world. If Osama Bin Laden had been living as a dry cleaner in Brooklyn under an assumed name following 9/11, you can bet he would have been discovered much sooner.

As for de-aging, there’s plastic surgery, HGH, etc., the technology for which is getting better and better every year. In 200 years I imagine clinics that can give a person one heck of a rejuvenating makeover. So yeah, I think it would be common to see “de-aged” people. The bottom line is, you don’t change your name and try to infiltrate Starfleet when you look just like a famous captain when he disappeared 20 years earlier — it would simply attract too much unwanted attention. He would be better off looking older as nobody had seen him like that. So then what, he not only de-ages but has plastic surgery to conceal his identity? How much more ridiculous do you want this movie to get? This is as dumb as the Khan plastic surgery argument, like anybody would even suspect a guy who looks like a 20th century dictator, for whom there are few records and long thought dead, would be the real deal.

Frankly if Orci expects us to buy this kind of plot device then the franchise is doomed … At least for the fans. Such things seem to work very well for mass audiences of movies like Transformers.

And finally, a de-aged April would be ripping off one of the worst TNG episodes ever: Too Short A Season. Not that Orci isn’t capable of that (*cough* The Island *cough*), I would just hope he wouldn’t, and if he did, for God’s sake don’t rip directly from Star Trek episodes.

That said, I’m not confident these guys won’t do exactly that. Nevertheless I think the least plausible scenarios are that Harrison is April, or Khan.

164. Ello - February 20, 2013

April’s uniform looks pretty good for being 20 years old…

165. LogicalLeopard - February 20, 2013

164. Ello – February 20, 2013
April’s uniform looks pretty good for being 20 years old…
**************************

*LOLOLOL*

Good point!

I’m hoping maybe that he’s on assignment for Starfleet regarding some clandenstine business only a “dead” person…er…with a uniform…could accomplish.

166. KingDaniel - February 20, 2013

**SPOILERS**

**

**

**

April left the Enterprise twenty years ago. At that time he had been captain for ten years. Counting backward from 2259, that’s before the timelines split in 2233.

Wasn’t Bob Orci on here years ago, telling us all that the timelines were one and the same until they branched in 2233, that everything before Nero’s arrival remained unchanged? Changed your mind, Bob?

167. Ctrl-Opt-Del - February 20, 2013

From TMP:

http://ottens.co.uk/forgottentrek/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Decker-Ilia.jpg

“All those ships were named Enterprise.”

If they are maintaining canon from pre-temporal-incursion continuity, April must’ve commanded the Enterprise XCV-330

168. The Mighty Chip - February 20, 2013

@166. KingDaniel – I think I have a theoretical example that could explain the discrepancy.

April commanded the original Enterprise that we all know and love. She was built before the Narada Incident and therefore is exactly the same as she was in TOS.

After the Narada incident starfleet was forced to become much more militaristic than it was in the Prime universe. Because of this SF launched an initiative to design a new ship class based on the original Constitution class but equipped better for battle, sort of similar to the way the US Navy made a slightly redesigned Los Angeles class submarine with newer technology. The old ships are NOT REFIT, it’s just that any new ship that gets ordered gets built to the new designs. While the nuConstition class is being developed, the current fleet is being pressed into more battle-type missions than exploratory missions. During one of these missions the Enterprise (remember, TOS Enterprise under command of April) was destroyed or at the very least irreperably damaged doing something extremely noteworthy or heroic.

The JJ-1701 was originally going to be named something different, but after the April/TOS Enterprise heroically and unexpectedly dropped out of service, they decide to name the first of the nuConstitution ships Enterprise in her honor. This explains the time discrepancy where the nuEnterprise was still being built at the same time the AprilEnterprise was reportedly lost (if I remember the movie correctly, we only see her hull number when she’s in the shipyard, we never actually see the name “Enterprise” anywhere on the hull until after she’s launched. Somebody correct me if I’m wrong on that.)

There is precedence in canon for this. Both the NCC-1701-A and the NCC-1701-E were originally going to be named something else but their names got switched to Enterprise when the their predeccesors were unexpectedly destroyed.

169. Check the Circuit - February 20, 2013

@ Curious Cadet

I’m not saying it’s a good or bad plot point. I’m just suggesting that IF Harrison is a de-aged April…a theory that’s been floating around through the aid of Augments bio-technology…it’s plausible that he could pull off the assumed identity because no one has a frame of reference to think otherwise. Other than….Wow, he looks just like a young Robert April.

I don’t think we’re talking about a super facelit either. The theory is he has physically become a much younger man. So I don’t think your bin Laden example fits. If he was somehow able to literally transform from a 54 year old man to a 25 year old, he could have walked up to President Obama and shake his hand and no one would have been the wiser. Who would think to be looking for a 25 year old bin Laden if they didn’t think the technology to achieve such a metamorphisis existed.

(I remember the first time I saw a picture of Jacob Dylan. There wasn’t a caption saying who it was. My reaction was what I described above…..Wow! That looks JUST like a young Bob Dylan. I didn’t think….Wow! There must be a technology that Bob Dylan used to de-age himself by 25 years.)

170. falcon - February 20, 2013

As far as construction contract numbers (NCC numbers) are concerned:

They don’t make any sense, or have any logical sequence other than ships of a certain class (Constitution – 1700, Enterprise – 1701, Exter – 1705, etc.). The number is just something some bureaucrat assigns when the contract is signed. It could have been K23P17X, for all that matters.

No reason to assume April’s Enterprise was any sort of variant on NCC-1701. It could have been NCC-723, for all we know. Or NCC-1134. Or whatever. As Dr. McCoy remarked, “The bureaucratic mentality is the only constant in the universe.” It wasn’t until Enterprise made a name for itself under Kirk in the Prime timeline that NCC-1701 was reused for future ships named Enterprise. Until that happens, it’s a different number (WWII Enterprise was CV-6, nuclear Enterprise was CVN-65, the next Ford-class Enterprise will be CVN-80).

171. Jeyl - February 20, 2013

@161. “Perhaps you can think of them as providing an unofficial backstory to enhance your appreciation of what’s happening on screen, like the backstories actors give their characters.”

There’s a statement that shows just how screwed up things sound. You’re basically saying that something that is officially endorsed by the studios and the creative team behind Star Trek should be looked at as unofficial, but still matter. The only thing that sounds like it matters is that we’re basically giving them money for something they don’t even endorse. It’s one thing to say that they’re giving us more Trek, but why should we take it seriously if they don’t?

172. ScottC - February 20, 2013

I was just able to buy the second issue online through the iTunes/IDW Publishing app

173. Hair Today Gorn Tomorrow - February 20, 2013

That’s a neat little tidbit… so Carol Marcus’ father (Alex Marcus) was Captain April’s X.O. aboard his Enterprise (20 years prior). And April’s Enterprise (being an earlier version) looks a little closer to the original 1960′s version, but (thankfully) with a budget/upgrade feel to it.
These are observations and assumptions after reading Countdown #2.

174. Moputo Jones - February 20, 2013

#155 & #168

The Enterprise that “we all know and love” wasn’t built before the Narada incident and thus the split in the timeline. The Narada incident was in 2233 and the Enterprise in the PrimeVerse wasn’t commissioned until 2245. So April in the JJVerse couldn’t have commanded the Enterprise that we knew from TOS because it wasn’t in existence at the time of the split.

175. Platitude - February 20, 2013

Good explanation @125

176. Murray - February 20, 2013

NX-01 Commissioned 2151-2161

New timeline 2233

New Enterprise 1701 2258-?

All events previous to 2233 were the same as Prime Timeline.

So April’s ship would not be previous to 2233 unless never mentioned.

Enterprise XCV-330 2123-2165? contradicts the NX-01?

177. Admiral_Bumblebee - February 20, 2013

A thought occured to me. In the superbowl-Trailer we saw the Enterprise Suffering Extreme damage. Maybe it Even will be destroyed. What of Kirk then uses the Old decomissioned Enterprise from Captain April to pursue Harrison…

178. The Mighty Chip - February 20, 2013

@174. Moputo Jones: My apologies, I was working off dates a previous poster gave me. I think my idea could still work with a little bit of tweaking though: I just got to pull in the “Constitution class was accelerated due to Narada” theory to explain how TOS-Enterprise was under April’s command, and the rest of my idea should hold:

Rough Timeline:

- Narada Incident

- Constitution Class is acclerated just so that startfleet has SOME form of heavy cruiser defending space. This causes the TOS Enterprise to be built and put under April’s command earlier than in the Prime universe.

- Since the current Constitution class is just a stop-gap measure, work begins on the Constitution Improved design.

- Construction begins on the first Constitution(i) class ship.

- The Enterprise dies (or is irreperably harmed) heroically in some kind of critical battle.

- The name of the new Constitution(i) ship is changed to Enterprise at the last minute in honor of the first one’s sacrifice.

- ST09 happens.

179. The Mighty Chip - February 20, 2013

@177 Admiral:

Yes.

YES.

Can I change my theory? I don’t think it’s likely to happen at all but it would be so awesome if it did. :-D

180. Elliot - February 20, 2013

You know, it would’ve been so much simpler if they had the date of April’s supposed death and the decommissioning of the earlier Enterprise as only being about 10 years prior to the events in the comic (so around 2249). Why the heck did they have to say it was twenty years ago?

181. ScottC - February 20, 2013

The pictures in the comic of April’s Enterprise sure look more like the E from TOS. Same end caps on teh nacelles, same proportions for secondary hull. And its not a modified NX-01. So there must have been one built after the Narada incursion but before the new E in the last movie.

182. Josh C. - February 20, 2013

Well OK, Comixology has made progress in at least LISTING comic #2. But when I try to buy it in the Comixology app, it just says “item not found”

*sighs*

183. rocketscientist - February 20, 2013

# 178

Mighty Chip, that sounds plausible. The Narada, taken to be a current day Romulan ship, could have thrown SF acuisition and planning into chaos, acclerating the construction of the Constitution class Enterprise by over 10 years. Then, as you said, the Enterprise ALT was launched after the previous Enterprise was decomissioned. Perhaps this ship was commanded by Pike, after April, as in the Prime timeline?

One thing, though, the number of April’s Enterprise probably wasn’t 1701 as others here have noted.

184. Josh C. - February 20, 2013

OK, it appears I am FINALLY able to read it. Bought it through the Comixology website store, which appears will let me read it. geez.

185. Josh C. - February 20, 2013

OK….

*SPOILER ALERT* *SPOILER ALERT* *SPOILER ALERT* *SPOILER ALERT*

Now that you’ve been warned, a few items:

1) April’s bridge looks much like the NCC-1701-A bridge, suggesting that:
a) It almost certainly was very similar to the TOS Enterprise, BUT
b) Already had technological advancements added after the Narada incident.

2) The exterior of the Enterprise looks Constitution-class-like, once again adding to that speculation (we don’t see a number on the ship, however. I still think it’d be something like NCC-701)

3) His XO was someone called Alex Marcus. I would put a pretty high probability that this is Carol Marcus’ father.

4) Mudd is pretty obviously at least part-Bajorin. But no indication what relation she has to the Mudd we know.

5) If Mudd is delivering weapons for April, then who is supplying the other side? The Klingons? Is Mudd double-crossing him?

Veeeeeery interesting. Now I have to wait another month!

186. Ello - February 20, 2013

Thinking that the Klingons might be supplying the other side, which may be how they get sucked into the plot of Into Darkness. Another thing, can we stop the Harrison is April nonsense? April doesn’t seem to hold a grudge against Starfleet worthy of vengeance…

187. Josh C. - February 20, 2013

@186

I suppose April COULD if Kirk ultimately follows the prime directive and allows the genocide. My biggest problem is that, Harrison is way too young to be April…

188. Ello - February 20, 2013

@187 Well people were trying to work around that little detail by saying that April had been “de-aged”…yeah, but that would be vengeance against Kirk. Pretty sure Harrison is wanting vengeance on the entire Federation or the planet. Either way, Harrison isn’t April or vice versa so it doesn’t matter.

189. Josh C. - February 20, 2013

@188

Well, I could see him turning that into vengeance against the entire Federation and it’s whole concept of the Prime Directive that allowed that to happen. That is actually something plausible.

But yeah, the whole age thing is a problem. I suppose it’s not impossible they somehow magically come up with a solution. I think it’s perhaps more probable that Harrison is working on his behalf.

And if Alex Marcus was April’s XO and was sympathetic to his beliefs, maybe HE’S Peter Weller’s character

190. Peter Loader - February 20, 2013

146 Bingo!

191. Josh C. - February 20, 2013

On the other hand, the wikipedia article says Nolan North has been cast, but as an unspecified character. He *could* pass as Robert April, at least based on this photo: http://www.sacconventions.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Nolan-head-shot-226×300.jpg

Althought he’s about 20 years too young, but that can probably be pretty easily fixed with makeup, etc.

192. Peter Loader - February 20, 2013

147 Bingo!

193. CanOpener1256 - February 20, 2013

The easiest answer, and the one most are overlooking, is that when we find out the true story it will NOT match the timeline, or make sense. That’s why they rebooted it to get away fom all that. It’s fun to speculate but I think too many nitpickers will be up in arms when this all becomes clear.

Also, the ship splashing into the ocean in the trailer matches the depiction of April’s Enterprise in the comics.

194. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 20, 2013

#122 – Pine/Kirk was born in 2233, not 2228. In the first scenes of Star Trek 09, that was covered. This Kirk entered Starfleet Academy when he was 22 years old and went aboard the Enterprise (sneaked in by Bones) when he was 25 years old, ie 2258.

I doubt that Chris Pine said much, if anything, on this matter. He tends not to say that much most of the time.

What does WRT mean? Just wondering…
Thank you.

#163 – The Transformers story was a simple, straight forward one. However, some of the ideas that many people have put forward here as being possible plot lines and characters are not so. Notions about whether Khan is in this movie or not, whether there are augments, or people de-aging themselves etc are all coming from the Star Trek fans. Some of the ideas presented are, well…for one thing, I hope a certain character in particular is not in any new Star Trek because I feel I have already seen that *movie* too many times already, just by coming to many a Star Trek site and reading stuff.

Just to be clear here – the Supreme Court have not revealed anything other than what the trailers/preview and official statements made about Star Trek Into Darkness. As of this moment – Khan,Joachim, augments, Captain April, Paxton or any other name mentioned by fans have NOT been referred to in any of the official statements made/shown. The names have been John Harrison and Carol Marcus. Carol Marcus’s connection (in the prime timeline) is with Kirk, NOT Khan.

Captain April has been part of the story told in the latest Countdown comic series – that is all!

I think that it is a little premature to be dumping on Bob Orci and the Supreme Court just yet.

195. The Mighty Chip - February 20, 2013

@183 Rocketscientist:

Yeah that’s why I tried to mention the hull number as little as possible in my theory – I can’t see any logical reason why April’s Enterprise would be NCC-1701 in my theory, unless they transferred the hull number AND the name to the nuEnterprise (unlikely, IMO, since the whole point of hull numbers is to give each ship a unique and convenient ID in the register regardless of confusing [and often repeating] ship names).

I think the idea of seperate Constitution and Constitution Improved classes makes sense though, esp in the context of the Narada incident: The Constitution(i) class would be designed so that SF could add all the features they didn’t have time to add into the rushed Constitution class, plus the addition of all that upgraded firepower.

But then again maybe I’m just overthinking this and trying too hard to draw parralels between starfleet and the US submarine fleet. idk.

People keep mentioning April’s Enterprise is shown in the comics… is there a screencap of this? I don’t normally buy the comics tbh but I would really love to see April’s Enterprise and try to glean clues from it.

196. Ello - February 20, 2013

@195 The differences are minor. The hull looks more akin to the Enterprise-A, especially the nacelles. And there are different patterns in the hull plating. The bridge is completely different, looking like a modernization on the TOS bridge. It looks nothing like an Apple store. The deflector dishes are also different colors. I think that’s it…

197. neevnav - February 20, 2013

Just finished the issue. Thing that caught me was that April’s first officer’s last name was MARCUS. Carol Marcus’s father perhaps?

198. KingDaniel - February 20, 2013

Remember how inconsistantly the Enterprise has been drawn in IDW’s series (after all, it’s a comic book not a technical manual!). The minor differences in details in April’s Enterprise are not meant to be taken as seriously as people are doing here. IMO it’s meant to look identical to the Enterprise we know from the last movie, at least externally.

199. Gary S - February 20, 2013

!97 A few years older , could First Officer Marcus be conceivablyplayed by Peter Weller

200. Ello - February 20, 2013

@198, then how do you explain the differences in the two bridges? I’m of the opinion that they made the exterior differences subtle enough that you have to look for them.

201. Lee - February 20, 2013

I don’t have the issue yet and didn’t realize we see April’s Enterprise. Ignore my earlier thoughts.

202. ScottC - February 20, 2013

On a side note, Polar Lights is releasing a new model this September of the TOS Enterprise: Space Seed Edition, which includes a model of the Botony Bay. Coincidence?

203. ScottC - February 20, 2013

They are also releasing a model of the modified Enterprise NX01 in October. The modifications include a secondary hull and engine changes that were said to happen if there were further seasons of that show.

204. Breathless Kirk - February 20, 2013

Cumberbatch is April, who changes his appearance by taking Mudd’s pills.

205. mhansen0207 - February 20, 2013

If you look closely at the pictures of April’s Enterprise bridge, in my opinion, it looks like I imagine it would if you JJ-ed up or retrofitted the NX-01 bridge.

And as 203 mentioned, they were planning on adding new modifications to the NX-01 in the 5th season that would’ve made it resemble a very early Constitution class cruiser.

206. Jack - February 20, 2013

Hmmm. Just finished the comic. My way earlier comment was wrong — I’d missed the bit about April’s E being decommissioned.

I like it. And the whole bit about the Prime Directive and standing by while watching genocide… I wonder if there will be a twist, like the Shadows aren’t as lousy as they seem…

207. Emotionally Logical - February 20, 2013

@189

Hmm, same first name and initials as Alex Murphy LOL

208. secondary back ups - February 20, 2013

My only complaint about the book is the vauguery (if you will) surronding April’s Enterprise. It’s drawn to look, in my opinion, more TOS-y than the 09 Enterprise, but not the original we all know. The bridge is certainly reminiscent of prime universe refit bridge, but the captain’s chair is ALL TOS. Wish we’d gotten a hull number, but I’ll just have to try to put it out of my mind so I lie awake at night trying to reconcile it into a timeline.

klingons supporting the other side is a good thought, one i hadn’t considered, but makes some sense.

i’m not sure april will have anything to do with the movie, my bet is he’s just a character for the comic. as much as i’d love this comic to be super relevant to the story of the movie…i imagine it will have almost zero impact on the story. The last countdown comic series was good too, but entirely unnecessary to watch or understand the movie.

mudd is REALLY interestesting, can’t wait to see more of her. @28 Bajoran’s were definitely spacefaring by this point in history (from memory alpha):

By the 16th century, the Bajorans had developed sublight space travel and were exploring their home star system with solar-sail spacecraft. Some Bajoran explorers even reached the Cardassian system, several light years away

209. Kenneth - February 20, 2013

Oh this is jut frustrating ow things just seem to be made up on the fly in the JJ verse. I mean, the story isn’t bad, but as someone who’s taken an interest in the specifics of Star Trek, it drives me nuts that we don’t officially have class names or sizes for any of the ships in the 2009 movie (I don’t think Constitution class was even specified).

So is April’s alternate Enterprise Constitution class? Was it built before the timeline change screwed everything up? It surely isn’t Archer’s NX-01 Enterprise because those events where well before the timeline change. It isn’t from the Prime universe because the design has the swept nacelles and an oddly shaped engineering section and a blue deflector dish instead of an actual dish.

Just hurts my brain that no one can decisively explain these things four years after the first movie, and they keep piling on more arbritrary junk into the mix.

That’s how I’d describe JJ’s interpretation of the Star Trek universe: arbitrary for the sake of being arbitrary.

I’m not even going to get into Mudd apparent,yo being a Bajoran woman.

210. Craiger - February 20, 2013

Where are they showing what April’s Enterprise looks like?

211. Jack - February 20, 2013

209. How ’bout some patience, maybe it will all make sense by the time this thing’s over…

If it doesn’t, maybe I’ll join you in yipping about JJ et all.

As for the classes, did TOS have any of that during its initial run? I can’t remember. I think getting too damned specific really hurt Trek — sure, guidelines are good for continuity — but after a while, we were up to our necks in minutia.

To a certain degree, the designers have room, I think because the Kelvin incident happened in 2233, about 33 years before TOS (and, if you believe TOS continuity, about 20 years or so before The Menagerie, which was 13 years before TOS)… and 80 years or so after Enterprise (frankly, I hate Enterprise a lot more for the sort of arbitrariness you describe). So a bunch of design changes could have happened there in those 20 years, in the Prime timeline, on top of artists’ licence — for them to go from Kelvin-style ships to The Cage’s Enterprise. Does a design like the Kelvin really not fit with The Menagerie Enterprise anymore than the NX-01?

I’m not trying to be pedantic here, just trying to make sure I get the math. So the NX-01 was mothballed in 2161 (according to These Are the Voyages) ten years after it launched?

How long do ships get used for? Could a new Enterprise have been built after the Kelvin and scrapped after a couple of decades? Could some different event have led to tonnes of damage and an early decommissioning? In Star Trek III they said the E was “nearly 20 years old” and ready to be retired — although it was only (? years) after the complete refit, and 28 years after The Menagerie. Was that just an oversight, or a deliberate choice?

Of course, it ain’t real — the reason the Enterprise was ‘refit’ was so they could have a better ship for a movie; the reason The Cage stuff was set 13 years before was so they could incorporate the pilot into a (great) two-parter and catch up on effects work; the reason the Enterprise was then old and outdated two movies after the refit was to do what the story needed.

I’m really hoping they thought this out this time, at least a little… or are they leaving it up to us to speculate?
Bob?

212. Ello - February 20, 2013

April’s Enterprise is clearly Constitution class. There are about 5 minor exterior differences. The bridge is clearly different. It’s not a refit NX-01.

Also, whoever was in charge of putting the “A” behind Enterprise is 99% unlikely to be in that same position. Perhaps after April’s Enterprise was decommissioned, Starfleet just decided to name the next one Enterprise and didn’t have the idea of “no bloody A, B, C orrrrrr D” :-)

213. Curious Cadet - February 20, 2013

@169. Check the Circuit,
“it’s plausible that he could pull off the assumed identity because no one has a frame of reference to think otherwise. Other than….Wow, he looks just like a young Robert April.”

And if you’re Robert April trying to pass yourself off as John Harrison — a Starfleet officer no less — the last thing you want is people asking: “so are you related to Capt. April?” Or some student of history who is so convinced you look just like the missing captain, that they pull up his picture and yours and overlay them so that the computer confirms an exact match … then start looking into Harrison’s past (which is entirely fabricated…). Or, general face-recognition technology identifying you as Robert April somewhere, since you look just like the good captain the last time any computers saw your face. And he would have to take extraordinary measures to alter his DNA, retina scans, fingerprints, any embedded chips (which I wouldn’t put past Starfleet post Nero), hack into Starfleet records and create fake profiles, etc. but then have questions raised because he looks just like the guy he’s trying to disguise himself of, the last time anybody saw him?

Bad idea or not, this premise just doesn’t work for April. Think about it … We live in a world where people actually think they see Elvis alive. You think in a paranoid post Nero Starfleet, that people won’t wonder about seeing a guy who looks exactly like Robert April at the time he dissapeared? They aren’t going to think about how old he should look now, and some conspiracy nut like Bob Orci is going to think he’s back, however impossible it might seem. And all it takes is one loose thread to unravel the most elaborate of plans.

214. Jack - February 20, 2013

212. I always thought it was odd that in the 80 years before TNG they had gone through 3 ships to get to D (four if you count the original 1701), and yet, there were Excelsior-, Oberth- and Miranda-class ships still in service, pretty much unchanged. I know, I know, they had the models already and no budget for new ones — and it’s not real.

The ship stayed the 1701 because the number had become part of (Trek and pop) culture. It’s not a convention that was used with any other Trek ships and we didn’t see it during TOS. But, yeah, why couldn’t Kirk’s Enterprise in THIS new universe be the very first 1701?

Still, this Enterprise shown here bugs me way less than the Akira-based design for the show Enterprise, which looked more advanced than the TOS Enterprise — and incredibly familiar. Had Berman and co. not been Berman and co., they could really have had some fun with it — something a lot more NASA-y/2001-y like the stuff from the spaceflight chronology or the Okazaki stuff online.

And the rules for decommissioning entirely depended on the story, no? Was the Enterprise-A an old ship when Kirk and co got it — because it was in mothballs just ? years later. Sure you could invent all sorts of excuses for accelerating the process — like massive damage. Some ships were around for many decades, others got retired after a decade or two.

Still, all the misdirection is fun — as long as they have some idea where they’re going…And it’s certainly better for publicity than that (so far really lame) app (today you had to scan a photo of Iman from Trek VI and teh big news of the week was a youtube video of a badly-animated version of the STID poster).

215. Travis - February 20, 2013

Ok so Captain Robert April’s Enterprise is the original Constitution-Class, Pike/Kirk Enterprise is the Constitution-Class Refit and now seems the Enterprise-A will be a Constitution-Class Refit also!

216. Curious Cadet - February 20, 2013

@214 Jack,

From Memory Alpha: According to Gene Roddenberry, “the NCC-1701-A was not a newly-constructed ship, but instead was the renamed USS Yorktown, a nod to the name of the starship in his original pitch for Star Trek. This was based on the fact that it was difficult to believe that Starfleet would build a whole new ship in such a short time, and then decommission it a short while after, and the early retirement of the Enterprise-A could be justified if the ship had been in service for many years under another name.”

Given this fact, one could easily assume that a re-named ship does not count against the “six ships named Enterprise ‘canon’”, or at a minimum induces many Starfleet barroom brawls over debates of whether it does or not.

So in lieu of other contrary arguments, this is the one I’m going to go with.

However, I’m troubled by the idea that a Constitution-like ship named Enterprise existed prior to 2233 in both timelines, only to be replaced by something very similar in the Prime timeline in 2245. I suppose one possible explanation is that the first Enterprise was the prototype Constitution class, and was replaced by a “production” model at the earliest opportunity.

Remember Abrams wanted the Kelvin to be the first Enterprise, so that would have had to pre-date Nero’s incursion too. Though in that case I would have expected it to look like the Kelvin. But who knows, perhaps that’s how Abrams intended to get rid of the TOS design and introduce his own.

217. This is going to be a long year - February 20, 2013

I recall hearing that in the prime timeline the 1701-A was the refit of the original Constitution class Yorktown. So it would be around the same age as the 1701.

It was renamed Enterprise after Kirk Kobayshi-Marued the 1701.

This was all off screen so not officially canon.

218. crazydaystrom - February 20, 2013

Sheesh! I posted in jest a couple of times that Harrison = Harry’s son. And now…
God! I hope not!

219. This is going to be a long year - February 20, 2013

Didn’t Peter Weller mention his character has or had a ship in some interview a while back?

220. The Sinfonian - February 20, 2013

@191: I think you’ve nailed it. Nolan North as Robert T. April makes perfect sense:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Creator/NolanNorth?from=Main.NolanNorth
The picture of him smiling there, is a pretty straight match on the hairline, nose, and eye spacing with the comic depiction.

Not only that, Nolan looks a bit like a young Gene Roddenberry, too… which ties in with the Prime Universe April.

@1701 issue. “Are You The 1701″? Why did they choose that title? I’m fairly on board with the idea that the 2233 Narada incident accelerated the Constitution-class Enterprise project. Since it’s sooner, the alt April Enterprise is part of the NCC-1600 series, and is numbered something like the Exeter or other ships that we know are 16xx. Might as well make that Enterprise NCC-1601, but Boborci knows what it really is, and we’ll all know in May.

Was it Best Destiny the novel in the prime universe that had George Kirk as April’s XO? Makes sense that in the JJverse, George is dead, so Alex Marcus is now April’s XO. Someone other than George has to do it. If instead of officially launching in 2245, the Big E of April lauches in 2237 or 8, everything works out. April goes missing by 2240. The ship is under Marcus with Pike as his XO, and then Pike has it. The Talos incident takes place in the JJverse on track still in 2253, and that Enterprise is “retired/decommissioned” in favor of the huge Riverside-project Enterprise. (Maybe its project codename a la Apple was Cloverfield, heh.)

That fits I think. Ships weren’t given the -A type designations in the Prime Universe until 2385 anyway… so why would a 2258 Enterprise be anything but “Enterprise”? So when April’s old Connie Enterprise turns up…. we can see how it would be confusing to have multiple E’s.

If this movie indeed is a Tale of Two Enterprises… then the question “Are you the 1701?” now makes *perfect* sense.

221. This is going to be a long year - February 20, 2013

@220

The TOS/April Enterprise vs nuEnterprise.

That would make for an interesting space fight sequence in this movie.

222. mikejohnson - February 20, 2013

Just wanted to say a big THANK YOU to everybody who picked up the book! Your support is what keeps more Star Trek coming in between the movies.

And kudos to those who have paid special attention to certain character names in this issue… :)

Things ramp up quickly in issues #3 and 4. And shortly after #4 comes out… an epic new STAR TREK movie!

Mike J.

223. Josh C. - February 20, 2013

@222 mikejohnson

So are you saying there are more names that we should pick up other than the obvious ones? (April, Marcus, Mudd?)

and TELL US WHO JOHN HARRISON IS DAMN IT lol

224. Ello - February 20, 2013

@223 Pretty sure those are the only three new names to be introduced. I think the least obvious one was Marcus.

225. Josh C. - February 20, 2013

@220 – interesting hypothesis about the “are you the 1701″ I assumed it meant are you a member of the crew or a supporter of the ship, but perhaps it is literally talking about the ship itself.

And yeah, the more I think about it, the more I like my theory of Nolan North as April and Peter Weller as daddy Marcus, with John Harrison being, well, someone who perhaps works for them (which makes it very unlikely that it’s Khan/Mitchell/Garth/etc.). It doesn’t mean he isn’t someone else that we’ll be shocked to find out who (is there anyone else who could conceivably be upset about the prime directive? Not that anything that happened in the prime universe is really applicable).

I’m kind of setting (for now, at least until #3 comes out in a month) around this scenario:

Kirk and Spock allows the minority aliens to be wiped out, upholding the prime directive. This enrages April, causing him to seek to bring down Starfleet and it’s prime directive altogether.

He teams up with his old XO Alex Marcus and his top agent John Harrison, to try to do it. They use the cover of finding cures for diseases for starfleet officers to essentially buy them off so that they can conduct their plan (probably involves blowing up spacedock while a good portion of the fleet is there).

If the Klingons are arming the aggressors, that would also explain why Harrison would go to Qu’nos: to take revenge on them for that.

Could this mean we could conceivably see a battle between the 1701 and April’s more prime 1701-A ship? that would be a very interesting and surprising turn of events wouldn’t it!

I don’t think it is April’s ship that is falling. I still think that is the ships that were docked at spacedock when it (in my theory) gets blown up. I’m not sure if there are any pictures of Harrison on the bridge of his ship good enough in the trailers to see if they match the bridge of April’s Enterprise in the comic or not.

226. Giez - February 20, 2013

Post a link to Pic of April’s Enterprise in #2 please.

I think it’s funny that even with the pic people differ on what it looks like :)

227. Jack - February 20, 2013

216. Yeah, I remember reading that Yorktown bit — so did they find them a ship that would be good for another decade until they all retired? I’m just trying to get a sense of when a ship gets shelved. We’ve never really seen a process…

228. Ello - February 20, 2013

Just looked at Countdown to Darkness #1 and they show Kirk’s Enterprise coming into orbit around the planet in the EXACT same position as April’s Enterprise in this episode, #2, and there are noticeable differences. These are two different ships, whether completely new or refitted. It’s obvious.

229. Giez - February 20, 2013

@225.

The ship falling in orbit in the super bowl add clearly says 1701…does it not? That doesn’t mean it’s the one hitting the water. Scotty must pull a miracle and right the ship…. I hope.

230. Josh C. - February 20, 2013

For those who are asking, and I hope this is OK, the pictures of April’s Enterprise.

I tried to copy ONLY it and not any other parts of the comic…

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c59/FleetAdmiralJ/april-enterprise1_zps1725208d.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c59/FleetAdmiralJ/april-enterprise2_zps75c51e7c.jpg

231. Josh C. - February 20, 2013

@229 – I kinda have a theory that the Enterprise may crash into the water, but the “adjustments” made by Scott for them to stay underwater at the start of the movie save them

232. Ello - February 20, 2013

http://24.media.tumblr.com/5d299cd03e9036223ff9f316c4855f00/tumblr_mhekpiuqJb1qhmu4uo1_1280.jpg

Kirk’s E…See the differences?

233. Josh C. - February 20, 2013

Oh, here is another question: If April has been aiding these aliens for nearly 20 years, and Kirk says the last visit by a ship 5 years ago was normal (from comic #1)…wouldn’t that mean that either:

a) the people during the surveying did a piss poor job of doing it, or
b) they forged the reports? Which would suggest that Alex Marcus was still captain of that Enterprise as of about 5 years ago

234. Ello - February 20, 2013

@233 Kirk said April’s E was decommissioned 2 years ago, so that’s plausible.

235. Giez - February 20, 2013

Thanks… @230

No doubt an older Constitution class! I’d almost say a bit smaller than the new 1701. Curious to see the #’s on it.

Enterprise vs Enterprise… shall we begin!!

236. The Sinfonian - February 20, 2013

Interesting, that a certain observation I made yesterday… and in response to Mike Johnson about certain names in this issue made an hour ago, has been EDITED away. Frustrating. It was there for some time as #226. Now there’s a different #226. I’d at least like an email as to *why* that has been removed. I think it’s very instructive.

In any event, the truth is out there.

237. The Sinfonian - February 20, 2013

@235 I wonder… was Dr. Sarah Poole, killed in the attack on the Kelvin in 2233? This would have a tremendous impact on Robert T. April…..

And April was from England. Is this part of a reason John Harrison attacks London!?!

238. Josh C. - February 20, 2013

In any case, this episode is an interesting thought experiment.

What if in the 1850s, some aliens came down and were like “LOL We’re arming your slaves with LASER GUNS!”

On the face, it may seem noble in that they’re helping an oppressed minority fight back, but there are obviously other, probably unforeseen, repercussions as well.

239. gaps2014 - February 20, 2013

i wonder what is with spock running off at the end surely he isnt arming the aliens as well

240. Ello - February 20, 2013

Interesting to note that on Memory Beta (non canon website), in the comics Robert April designed the Constitution-class starships and was assisted by none other than Dr. Richard Daystrom.

241. Cody A - February 20, 2013

Soo…. all who read the second comic… why did Spock start running at the end?

242. Dustin - February 20, 2013

I look at it this way. To use the US Navy as an example. There have been several new classes of Aircraft carrier, but they all have the same basic shape. I assume the same is true with the Constitution class. The Space Frame design is solid, so they kept the basic outline already proven and then re worked it in the next class. Compare the Reliant from Star Trek 2 to the Nebula versions of TNG and DS9. Same shape but different looking.

In the cannon verse the Enterprise 1701 was old enough to have gone through several refits even before the one in TMP. My guess is the first 12 Constitution ships that were mentioned in the first series got out dated very fast.

Besides how fast our tech changes and will continue to change, most of a 10 year old ship would be outdated quickly. Plus look at World War 2. Everyone thought Battleships were the power base and always would be, but by bombing Pearl with aircraft carries Japan killed the age of the Batlleships and ones like the Hood and Bismark were gone soon after.

I would say it went. Low warp ships (as seen in earth space on Enterprise) and then it was the NX class built up to be the backbone of the fleet. Then when a warp seven engine came along it needed the Daedalus classes. Then more tech was made and along came the first of Aprils ships class. Then 09 movie Enterprise.

243. Josh C. - February 20, 2013

@241 – Personally, I think he realized that they were captured and went off to rescue them, hoping to save kirk from a court marshal by violating the prime directive, which probably most rational people would assume he was on the verge of doing

244. Curious Cadet - February 20, 2013

@220. The Sinfonian,
“I’m fairly on board with the idea that the 2233 Narada incident accelerated the Constitution-class Enterprise project.”

Nope. The comic states that April served 10 years before disappearing for 20. Which means April’s Enterprise has been around since at least 2229, four years prior to Nero’s incursion. So, this is NOT an accelerated Constitution-class Enterprise. Prototype, sure. But this ship exists in the Prime timeline as well, and would have been decommissioned sometime prior to 2245 when Prime April first took command of the Cnstitution class Enterprise. But HELLO — since April was in command of this earlier Enterprise prior to 2233, NEW CANON ALERT: April was also captain of the this earlier Enterprise in the Prime universe as well. Meaning, In the Prime universe, April served as captain most likely through the decommission whereupon he oversaw the construction of the constitution class Enterprise, and was given command at 50 because he already had been its captain.

Chances are, this will NOT be a pre-cursor to the Constitution class starship, which in the Alt universe was bypassed completely in favor of the new Enterprise class, which took significantly longer to develop, thus keeping the April Enterprise in service longer than in the Prime universe.

245. Ello - February 20, 2013

@244 He never said in the comic he had been captain of the Enterprise for 10 years…just captain ;-)

246. Curious Cadet - February 20, 2013

^^MORE:

That is to say, April’s Enterprise is a pre-cursor to the Constitution class starship in the Prime universe, but following Nero’s incursion, the Constitutiton project was scrapped, and Starfleet built the Alt Enterprise from the ground up based on the Narada technology.

I think Dustin is correct, like aircraft carriers, April’s first Enterprise was most likely the first of the classic design, which was maintained in both the Prime universe Constitution class, and the Alt universe Enterprise class. The main difference is the Constitution class improved upon the original design, while the Alt Enterprise started from scratch.

247. Historian_Levi - February 20, 2013

The first 2 issues have been great so far, cant wait to see what pops up next. The possibilties being discussed in here are wonderous.
It will be very cool if one of us has hit the nail on the head as to where the movie is headed.

Personally I think its a given that April is involved in movie definately now. I mean I was pretty certain when Hitfix first reported spoting the production art that said “Aprils Gatling Gun” durring the Bad Robot visit, but issue 1 and definately issue 2 now has me 100 percent convinced.

Khan may still factor in perhaps, but definately leaning towards this being a story built around Kirk and Crew going up against one of their own in the form of a former star fleet capt.

248. Historian_Levi - February 20, 2013

246
Speaking of Naval aircraft carriers, any of you check out Top Gun 3D either in IMAX or 3D bluray yet?

The USS Enterprise CVN-65 looks mighty good in 3D.
Paramount did an excellent job on the 3D conversion, Its right up there with the great job they did on Titanic 3D

249. Curious Cadet - February 20, 2013

@245 Ello,

Then KingDaniel had it wrong @166. Are you saying it cannot be inferred that April meant he was captain of the Enterprise for those 10 years?

If not, then that obviously offers an alternate interpretation.

In the Prime universe the Enterprise didn’t go into construction until the early 2240s, completed by 2245. If Nero’s incursion accelerated this program, given that April went missing in 2239, they would have had to start building the Enterprise no later than 2234 or so in order for April to command it for even a year before his disappearance. It’s kind of hard to imagine that a program that didn’t start until a good six or seven years later in the Prime universe could be ready to accelerate construction that quickly under any circumstances, but perhaps the bulk of the designs and planning had already been completed and in the Prime universe, the casual bureaucracy of the Federation, combined with fewer threats and a fleet of otherwise good ships delayed the start of the project there by almost a decade.

That certainly solves the problem with creating a new class of ship called Enterprise where there wasn’t one previously. Though I’m not too happy about how short-lived April’s command of it would be, nor how quickly it would have to be built out of the planning stages.

250. Jack - February 20, 2013

My two cents — I don’t think Cumberbatch has anything directly to do with April. And I suspect we won’t see April in the movie (despite Nolan North).

251. Jack - February 20, 2013

But what do I know — featuring April in this series suggests he plays a part in the movie (although Data and Picard didn’t in Countdown, although they weren’t in Countdown much…).

Just let the cat out of the bag, Bob. You’ll sleep like a baby. :).

252. Curious Cadet - February 20, 2013

@250 Jack,

I agree. I feel pretty much that April is the setup to Harrison, and he will be dead by the 4th comic, leaving only the legacy of his “big gun” behind in the movie. This actually makes even more sense now that April’s XO was likely Carol Marcus’ father, and Carol herself is a weapon’s designer.

But I also think trying to involve Khan, or the Botany Bay into this in any way just got a lot more convoluted and a lot less likely.

I’m starting to sense an Iran Contra thing developing …

253. K-7 - February 20, 2013

#78 #91 #92 #92

All, lest people not be aware of it, I wanted to point out that Rose (as in Keachick) is still carrying on her negative comments about American’s from the recent Alice Eve article where she made light of the Dorner attacks in LA and was very critical of Americans. Here are some of her most recent comments:

“The reality is that while 18 million people were upset and fearful (mostly, I suspect, because of how the media presented the situation), they were not in any real danger. And no, Admiral Archer’s Prized Beagle and her babies were in no real danger, because, unless she was a member of one of 50 cops and families targeted, Chris Dorner would have had no interest in hurting her or her children, unless he would have attempted to do so. Some of you Southern Californians may have been very upset and frightened by events for good reason, but the truth/facts – Yes, facts as opposed to rumour – is that at least 90% of Southern Californians would not have been directly affected by Chris Dorner being on the loose and making those threats. The vast majority of So Cal’s, including many coming to this site (and maybe posting) sat there, watching the events play out via the internet, the television screens in your living rooms, the car radio or reading the newspaper whilst drinking coffee, because that is how 95% of people get their news and are *impacted* by what they are told by the media! It happens everywhere. I am *sorry* if some are unable to understand, keep up intellectually with what I may write sometimes…oh well…what can I say? Some New Zealanders are even more fervently “anti-American” than I seem to many of you… Oh and I, speaking as ONE New Zealander am not that desperate for tourists that I need to have your not-so-nice self visit my shores, someone who appears to have never cleaned her clock or mirror! Now stop being such an idiotic bitch!”

254. Red Dead Ryan - February 20, 2013

#253.

Yeah, we’re all aware of Keachick’s rants. I completely agree with you. But I don’t think we need to drag it out onto this thread.

She’s already hijacked two threads already. No need to derail what has been a fun discussion into another political argument.

255. Historian_Levi - February 20, 2013

250,
you could be right, but I would also point out thus far April is getting about as much Page time as Nero did in the 09 countdown prequel series.

In any case Iam very pumped up about whats to come.

256. MJ - February 20, 2013

Red Dead Ryan,

I agree. Let’s not let Rose’s despicable behavior, hijack this thread as well.

257. Dustin - February 20, 2013

Guess I would like to point out a small thing. That with Mudd being a Bajorn woman. You can see the nose bumps and the earing. As already stated Bajor was really into space flight long before we saw them on the series. Though their people were not like on DS9. If you recall in the ep when a Bajorn guy from the past showed up and claimed to be the real Emissary. He said Bajor was heavy into a cast system where you were born into your role in life. That did not go away till the Cardassians invaded.

1. Think Mudd is her nickname rather then anything else. As a black market trader she is not going to use her real name.
2. The Enterprise crew might be fully aware of Bajor since its near Cardassia and in the 09 movie at the bar Uhura orders a Cardassian drink.

258. DiscoSpock - February 21, 2013

Let’s not let Rose’s ignorant and mean-spirited comments about the recent terror in Southern California bring down the discussion here.

259. DiscoSpock - February 21, 2013

Bob Orci,

Did you really need to steal “the Shadows” from Babylon 5?

260. Jack - February 21, 2013

Peter Weller as daddy Marcus? Hmmm. Hadn’t thought of that one.

252. “But I also think trying to involve Khan, or the Botany Bay into this in any way just got a lot more convoluted and a lot less likely.”

I think so too, but everybody else is so darned certain. I don’t think Khan will be a big, or any, part of this (the scene with the pods has me wondering… and it’s looking as if genetic enhancements play a key part, from Harrison’s “I am better”) — but, again, I’m guessing like the rest of us. It just seems like a potential mess trying to explain it all to an audience. That said, Trek
2 did it in a sentence or two (but it also had the original episode).

255. Yeah. I agree, absolutely. So far April is all there is to this story, and it’s half over. But I wonder whether this might lead into it more thematically, and maybe set up a few more suggestions of some trouble in Starfleet (rather than April himself being in the film). I really have no idea.

Might part of the philosophy of this star fleet cell in STID be more generally about some deciding that star fleet not only should be intervening in such situations, but that it must;, and past instances of just observing but not acting are criminal. Similarly, it could be figured that, maybe, laws against genetic manipulation (instead let nature take its course) are equalky irresponsible and lead to unnecessary suffering and death. Just riffing.

Plus I hope that if I guess sort of right, Bob Orci will offer me a job. See, I can write fantasy. ;).

261. Lurker - February 21, 2013

http://www.areyouthe1701.com/files/images/1701.gif

Was this how the site looked before it went dark?

262. Giez - February 21, 2013

I wonder if the “screaming Carol Marcus” is hovering over her dead father’s (Weller) body in fear of BC??

@Sinfonian – Yeah I hate when stuff here gets deleted with no explanation. My idea of BC being protected by the Red shirts in that pic was deleted twice. Their eyes are all the same.

263. Tomar Re - February 21, 2013

Just read the comic. Is that one of Mudd’s Women, re-purposed in this alternate timeline to delivering supplies? Interesting that the last issue comes out in the month of April.

264. Travis - February 21, 2013

I still believe KHAN is in Into Darkness and ill say why! Based on new evidence of the new comic #2 this doesnt change a damn thing about Khan because Kirk doesnt have to be the one to discover him! It could Marcus’s Enterprise that finds him or the most likely plot is the Klingons wake Khan and Khan turns on the Klingons…. Either way Harrison is only a ” ALIAS ” to me covering for Khan! Remember that this story of Into Darkness is about Terrorism and what was the Eugenics Wars about in the late 20th century… Terrorism by Gentic Enginnered Humans! Im also more thinking that the comics of Countdown into Darkness is more of a mission in its self and it is very, very on its own story from Into Darkness!

btw… JACK… hope your reading this…. In ST:III… The Enterprise is 40 years old… here it is again… 4 and then 0 sir! :)

265. lostrod - February 21, 2013

#264 Ttavis:

Although 40 years old certainly makes more sense, I believe the actual line in
ST3 did say the Ent was only 20 years old.

Regards

266. rocketscientist - February 21, 2013

#194

Rose,

Yeah, I checked Memory Alpha and it does have Kirk’s birth year as 2233. I got 2228 from wikipedia, though, and they cite the Okudas’ ST Chronology. Oh, well, if it’s indeed 2233, then that just makes the window for creating a whole new pre-1701 Enterprise tighter by 5 more years. It’s even more of a stretch. Actually, 2233 + 20 = 2253. The Enterprise Alt was launched in 2255, right? 10 years before the Enterprise Prime which was launched in 2245. If the events of the comic are two years later, in 2255, and April dissapeared 20 years, ago, that means that occurred in 2235, when Kirk was 2 years old.

So, to sum it up, if Kirk was indeed born in 2233, which was the time the Alt universe’s events diverge from the Prime universe, you have 2 years for April’s Enterprise to be built and operated before April dissapears.

Yeah, the 20 year line really throws a wrench in the works. I think we should all just gloss over that and make it 10 years or less. Mistakes like this happen. One example was in STIII TSFS when Admiral Morrow said the Enterprise was “over 20 years old,” when she was actually over twice that age.

So if you shorten the time of April’s dissapearance, the existence of his previous, proto-Constitution class Enterprise (not 1701) becomes plausible.

267. Gary S - February 21, 2013

I know a lot of people think April is not in this movie .
But would they really write a four issue series just to explain how Cumberbatch’s Character got ahold of Aprils Gun?

268. Phil - February 21, 2013

@267. My guess would be the liberal use of alcohol…..

269. msn1701 - February 21, 2013

I think they were originally going to call TOS Kirk “Robert April”. That is interesting that he showed up in the nuTrek comics.

I like it. It’s bold. It’s fresh. And it will drive the hardcore trekkies nuts ;) Go fem!Mudd… of course she could just be working for him and giving his name as hers. Maybe they’re going out? On second thought… EW!

270. The Last Vulcan - February 21, 2013

Well, I’ve been up to my ears in Vulcan alligators so I have only been able to quickly scan what’s been coming out, but it seems sooooooooo obvious that what I’ve been saying all along is actually the plot.

1) The ship crashing into SF bay is April’s ship which we now know to be the earlier 1701. Check the nacelle angles on the comic and they’re a perfect fit.
2) Harrison is a deaged April (however I love the idea of Harry’s Son Of Mudd although I don’t think the supreme court would have gone in that direction)
3) The Botany Bay has obviously carried this deaging secret sauce which the Klingons want as well as Harriet Mudd or whatever her name is.
4) The reason to attack Earth is so profound in April-Harrison that he is justified enough to tempt Kirk and Spock to his side. Still no clue as to what that is.
5) My money is still on Weller-Khan or an OMG moment where they CGI Montalban which would cause Trekker undies to be instantly soiled across the galaxy.

Now back to my crazy deadlines. April is back! Wheeeeeeeeeeee!

271. Curious Cadet - February 21, 2013

@260. Jack,
“I don’t think Khan will be a big, or any, part of this (the scene with the pods has me wondering…and it’s looking as if genetic enhancements play a key part, from Harrison’s “I am better”) — but, again, I’m guessing like the rest of us. It just seems like a potential mess trying to explain it all to an audience. That said, Trek
2 did it in a sentence or two (but it also had the original episode).”

Let me address TWOK summation of Space Seed first — Khan’s story is relatively simple once you take out the mystery. A good bit of Space Seed focused on the relatively cerebral mystery of who he was — this seems to likewise be the case of Harrison. TWOK wasn’t interested in that story and thus could summarize it in a couple of easy-to-understand sentences to focus on the fact Khan was abandoned on Ceti Alpha V and is now out for revenge — none of which really had anything to do with his origins. But the mystery seems to be an integral part of STID, with Kirk asking who he is well into the movie. Add to that the concept that if Harrison were Khan, you’d have to explain that, how he’s changed his appearance, how he infiltrated Starfleet, and what he’s up to and who he’s working with, not to mention expound on his past as an integral part of the story. Then, you have to explain the whole potential gene therapy thing. On top of all that, then you’re going to have to explain April, his connection to Kirk, what he’s doing and why, plus how Carol Marcus ties into all of this, who her father was — possibly Weller, two Enterprises, and how they all tie into Khan — not to mention the complex philosophy behind the Prime Directive which seems increasingly to be the main thrust of the movie.

Not that it couldn’t be done, but why? What a complete mess, as you put it. We’ve seen the first 9 minutes and we still don’t have a resolution of the prologue. Just how long is this movie going to be anyway!?

As for the pods, there seems to be a massive misdirect to convince us they have something to do with Khan. But as the number of things grow to potentially confuse the plot, removing Khan/Botany Bay from the picture help focus things. I originally said the pods seemed like a stasis storage for terminally ill patients for whom no cure yet existed based on the dying girl. This still seems like the most interesting idea to me. But it could just as easily be anything that doesn’t require an elaborate “supermen” put into stasis 200 years ago story.

272. Mad Mann - February 21, 2013

Man, seeing a Bajoran makes me miss DS9. That was the 2nd best show of all time.

273. Curious Cadet - February 21, 2013

@267. Gary S,
“But would they really write a four issue series just to explain how Cumberbatch’s Character got ahold of Aprils Gun?”

Really?

The “April Big Gun” is a by-product of April being the catalyst of a much bigger motivation in the movie. You do realize the general audience may never know the gun is called “April Big Gun”?

Kirk’s encounter with April is quite likely the whole basis of Kirk’s ignoring the Prime Directive we see in the first 9 minutes of the prologue. So the comics are doing far more than explaining a gun. April may very well be in the movie, but not necessarily as the major character many are suggesting. Im thinking more of a flashback. Indeed the role he plays can easily be incorporated into a conversation or two. How many movies do characters talk about their dead fathers, mothers, relatives, friends, etc. who play pivotal roles in their lives but are never otherwise seen? Indeed, the first Countdown to ST09 was completely superfluous to the movie. You did not need to read it in order to understand the movie. Those four issues were easily summarized in a couple of sentences in the film. This may likewise be the case with April.

Anyway, this is how I see April at the moment until we have a better idea what this movie is all about, considering how many potential plot lines are being theorized and are in need of reconciliation presently.

274. Travis - February 21, 2013

@271 Curious Cadet: I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again! No pods, No caskets, what you have seen is more than likely the Botany Bay filled with CryoTubes! I do believe that Harrison is Khan and that this Khan is very different from the Prime Timeline! Example on the Dark Knight The Joker was Re-Introduced as the same character, same motives but different story with a different actor and that’s what your seeing here! In order to make the Sequel bigger than the 09 movie, you have to bring back Trek’s most badass and most dangerous villain…. KHAN!!!

275. Craiger - February 21, 2013

Where are people seeing April’s Enterprise in this preview?

276. Jack - February 21, 2013

264. Yeah, Morrow says 20. He could have been wrong, we never did see him again. :).

And at time, I’d remembered an Alan Dean Foster novel combining two TAS episodes, and I think he’d said then that the E was 40 (and there was a beautiful bit describing the brand new E before launch, with gleaming new bowling alleys and shiny gauges on the bridge. But, to get into murky matters of canon — I don’t know if that was ever said on screen. I don’t remember anything about the actual TAS episode, which I would have seen when I was really young.

But back to Trek III, back then I was wondering where the Trek III writers (Bennett?) got the number from. It had been 18 years since TOS premiered, so that makes sense. It ignores The Menagerie (again, a [very good] two parter made from the original pilot, reportedly as a way to both use the material and also give the production a chance to catch up on effects work) and that TAS episode. Did someone forget all that, or did they just ignore it.

But the whole ‘when’ of the movies was never that clear. TMP was supposed to be 2 years after the 5-year-mission ended. Trek 2 was filmed 2 years after that and yet seemed to follow real time (Space Seed was said to have been 15 years before). And then the next three movies, from ’84 – ’89, were set a few months, give or take, after Trek 2. Then Trek VI was back to real time (and the ‘new’ ship introduced in Trek VI, 5 years before, was retired… although, in-universe and in real-time, over a decade had passed). The point is, all this stuff is tough to keep track of, even for film makers. And maybe it doesn’t matter.

I never liked when Trek pinned things down to an exact year because it could easily lead to problems with continuity (both internal and external). And it kind of filled in blanks that didn’t need filling.

In a total aside, when I was just checking IMDB to make sure I had the right date for Trek VI, I saw a bit saying that Kim Cattrall was having nude photos taken on the set (maybe for a magazine?) and Nimoy stopped it and threw the photographer out. I don’t remember hearing that one before. Wow.

277. Jack - February 21, 2013

275. It’s in the comic itself.

278. Curious Cadet - February 21, 2013

@260. Jack — MORE ^^271,

And I meant to contrast the attention paid to Khan’s backstory in TWOK to Carol Marcus and the Genesis device. Genesis was a complex concept introduced for the first time along with Carol Marcus, and her son David, also complex characters. By contrast, Khan was a simple concept, much like Nero. In both cases their motives were simple — REVENGE. We don’t really care why, or whether the reasons we’re given really make much sense. All that matters is that they are seeking revenge. Indeed Khan’s motives in TWOK were just as two-dimensional and shallow as Nero’s without the fan’s interpolation of Space Seed. As DmDuncan is fond of saying, TWOK actually did the character of Khan an injustice by making him an irrational lunatic.

But if TWOK had to do the job of Space Seed, as well as introduce us to Marcus and Genisis, and add yet another plot-line like using Daystrom to take over Starfleet, then TWOK would have been a giant mess. Right now that seems to be what the Khan/Botanay Bay camp is suggesting with the added twists of April, Mudd, and Alex Marcus being introduced in the comics, along with genetic manipulation, using Cooke to infiltrate Starfleet, and dealing wi the Prime Directive. All the while continuing to explore Sock/Uhura, give Bones more of a role in the triumvirate, and develop the other primary characters who got so little screen time in the first film.

279. Giez - February 21, 2013

Movie is 2hr, 20mins… according to my Fandango advance purchase for May 15

280. NuWisdom - February 21, 2013

@266 one problem with that theory: yes, Morrow said the Enterprise was over 20 years old’ and it was much older than that…but perhaps… just like here in the comic, there was another constitution class Enterprise…maybe it was 2 Enterprises post- NX-01 and pre-1701-A. The one with April and Pike as Captain, and then somewhere along the line during Pike’s tenure as Captain, they traded the E in for a newer model, the ship that ended up being Kirk’s, but the details of that got lost in history so everyone thought it was one ship. For instance Temporal Investigations in DS9. Partially because maybe both were 1701. Sort of like how when in DS9 The Defiant was destroyed by The Breen, the replacement was given the same registry number and without an ‘A’ suffix at the end.

281. Jack - February 21, 2013

271. Good points.

And, sort of similarly, I don’t think a complicated back story (in Countdown) makes Nero’s motivations make much more sense to viewers of Trek ’09. Sure, Romulus was destroyed but why was Spock solely responsible for saving it? Sure, Nero’s crazy, and that can be allowed to explain a lot, but, come on.

“You marooned me on a planet and never bothered to check on our progress and most of us, including my wife, died and now I want revenge” works, even if you never see Space Seed. You don’t need to see Space Seed to understand who Khan is or to be interested in him as a character.

And that’s true in most fiction when we’re given a backstory — if it works, it works, without us needing to see it. Which is, possibly, an exception to ‘show, don’t tell’ (although that applies more to character development and adjectives — show me that Uhura’s brilliant, don’t just have a bunch of other people describe her, and everyone else, thusly). Exhibit A: That brief tale of Darth Vader’s origins, in Ben Kenobi’s place on Tatooine, is way more compelling than actually seeng it all happen to Hayden Christensen, over hours and hours.

But would that Khan thing had worked if Space Seed hadn’t existed? I don’t know. It hasn’t worked in similar Trek revenge tales (Generations and Nemesis) but is that dueto thestories just not makingsense?

I guess the question is, will STID be able to stand on its own, for viewers who know nothing about Trek and who haven’t read these comics, while still making sense to the canonistas? I hope so.

And, I’ve also wondered whether all this Khan/Mitchell/April stuff might intimidate the average viewer, who doesn’t wantto have to do research before seeng a movie. We’ll see.

282. Gary S - February 21, 2013

I hope that time turns out to be accurate ,
Congrats on the tickets .

283. Gary S - February 21, 2013

281. Kirk may never have checked in with the Botany Bay Survivors .
But,remember, In TWOK,Kirk tells Carol”I know what he blames me for”.
So he had some knowledge of what happened to them .

284. BatlethInTheGroin - February 21, 2013

#27: Yes, but Devin Faraci is a self-important hack with a poor track record for accuracy.

285. BatlethInTheGroin - February 21, 2013

#48: In your opinion, perhaps, but that’s clearly not how the majority of fans feel.

286. captainmazinger - February 21, 2013

So I just read the book and this is what I got out of it:

April’s Enterprise is on Page 12 of the comic and looks very similar to alternate universe Kirk’s except its bridge looks a lot like the prime universe Enterprise’s bridge. We see the front of it on page 20 and again it looks like Kirk’s ship with some minor differences like the deflector dish glowing gold instead of blue and it has a lot more exterior lights than Kirk’s Enterprise.

Kirk says to April that his Enterprise was decommissioned two years ago, so they’re not the same vessel and the appearance of the ship rules out it being the NX-01 which would have been silly anyway.

If we assume the alternate universe “Constitution Class” was supposed to be brand new at the start of the movie then I guess we can assume that while similar in appearance (likely due to the artist being lazy or not knowing any better), April’s ship is a separate (maybe smaller?) class of ship.

It’s either that or the Constitution Class has been around for a lot longer in the alternate universe and the new Enterprise is just the latest incarnation.

We don’t see the registry number of April’s Enterprise but that really doesn’t matter. The letter suffix isn’t a normal thing and is reserved for special circumstances like prime universe Kirk’s Enterprise which had sort of become an icon and a big public relation’s symbol for Starfleet.

It’s not really normal for registration numbers to be preserved in that way as they’ve re-used starship names in Star Trek before that don’t use the letter suffix. The Saratoga in Star Trek IV and the Saratoga in the Battle of Wolf 359 come to mind. Though both are Miranda class ships they don’t share the same registry number nor are they the same vessel. The Defiant is an oddball because it doesn’t get a letter or a different registry number (the real reason for this most likely being so they could keep using stock footage of the Defiant).

Ultimately though the comic opened up a can of beans in the continuity that’s more complicated and confusing than it has to be. They could’ve made April’s ship a clearly different looking class of starship or they could’ve just not called it the Enterprise.

287. Travis - February 21, 2013

@280 NuWisdom, @281 Jack : Either Marrow or Bennett forgot that the Original Enterprise was commissioned in the year 2245 under the command of Robert April! The refit of the Original Enterprise doesnt count as a new ship even tho all that starfleet replaced was everything except the chasis of the Enterprise which stays the same! In ST:III the year was 2285 which is 40 years! maybe Marrow was accounting the refit design of Enterprise but Marrow was clearly wrong what he described to Admiral Kirk!

288. Travis - February 21, 2013

BTW to clearify the EW report with their Magazine to Star Trek: Into Darkness i can say that in the movie business… EW is the most trustworthy and provides the most truthful information! That was not a hoax that they put Kirk and Khan… They know who the villain is! Thanks to Trekmovie.com and EW… Khan is back!

289. Craiger - February 21, 2013

Jack – How are people getting to see April’s Enterprise before that comic is out?

290. Baby - February 21, 2013

I wish there was a place where I can download the whole comic online

I am currently living in the UK at the moment and there is no wear to buy it ….even online…we have to wait for a whole new week.

Two thing that bothers me.

Is that Marcus..carol’s dad?

Where is Spock running off too.

NU-Spock is at it again. I dont see TOS Spock ditching Kirk for anything.

I am one of those trek fanS that believes that the NU charcaters should not exactly be the same their TOS counter parts.However I worry for NU-Spock. He can be all emo and emotional at times.

I hope he is ditching kirk for a very good reason

It will be intresting to see how the marcus story (both father and daughter) plays out in JJ Trek Universe. even though I dont see Carol getting knocked up in the new movie.

JJ said she has a very important part to play in the film.

urgh

COME MAY COME.

291. Gary S - February 21, 2013

289.I think they are downloading it from Comixology.

292. Garth Faction - February 21, 2013

Just look at what the alt-universe Trek has done to TNG… it’s all changing too…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fguxXhcdJA

293. Red Shirt Diaries - February 21, 2013

#258 “Let’s not let Rose’s ignorant and mean-spirited comments about the recent terror in Southern California bring down the discussion here.”

I agree 100%. I have had enough of Rose’s condescension and “anit-America-mongering.”

294. Michael - February 21, 2013

Badassdigest is hardly the only outlet to confirm Cumberbatch as Khan in recent days.

295. mcflycat - February 21, 2013

So, I’ve been lurking on here for a while and looking at all the different theories. and the one thats really sticking for me is that Harrison was on of the four augments that ruled Earth in the “90′s”. Kahn was the leader of Asia. John Harrison ruled Europe. Maybe he was frozen on earth instead of a sleeper ship?

296. The Mighty Chip - February 21, 2013

@Travis:

Just wanted to clarify something: the “pod scene” is in no way the Botany Bay. If you look in the background you’ll see a brick wall. Bricks are generally not known for their aerospace properties.

I’m not saying the Khan theory is wrong (although I personally don’t believe it), I’m just pointing out that the pod scene does not take place on a space ship.

297. mcflycat - February 21, 2013

There you go. Harrison went into a pod hidden in an underground tomb in London, gets revived, joins Starfleet.

298. Red Dead Ryan - February 21, 2013

#286.

I recall Ron Moore saying that the second DS9 Defiant was essentially the NX-74205-A, that the producers just didn’t bother re-labelling the ship with only a few episodes left to go in the series. The stock footage showed earlier shots of the old Defiant with the NX-74205, so I just assume that the “A” is there, but we just can’t see it, either because it may have been scraped off in battle, or blocked by shadows. ;-)

I pretty much consider the second DS9 Defiant the Defiant-A anyway, as the first ship played such a pivotal role in the early stages of the Dominion War, as well as the brief conflict with the Klingons.

So the “Enterprise-only” rule regarding passing on the same registry number to a successor was put aside in the case of the Defiant, in my opinion.

299. RetroWarbird - February 21, 2013

The NCC-1701 was commissioned in the first half of the 23rd Century (apocryphal sources – background from ST: Enterprise – give us 2245 – noncanon). Pike commanded the Enterprise from at least 2253 (Spock served with him 11 years) and Kirk took command in 2264 at the age of 31.

The Alt. Trek films establish an Enterprise built in 2255 and commanded by Pike until 2258 when the whole Nero thing happens and Kirk gets a field promotion, age 25. (Likelihood zilch, but ignoring that …)

The Timeline forks 25 years prior (2233). Presumably 12 years prior to the Constitution-class launch. Archer’s ship, the NX-01 has been DECOM for 80 years and would be an antique.

So presumably, for April to have been C.O. on a Constitution-class, the launch would be bumped back from the apocryphal time to be least effected by the Nero Effect. And April being C.O. 20 years before Pike took command seems like a HUGE stretch. Or there was an NX-02 Enterprise. Or most likely, the Alt. Universe Enterprise is a refit – the main Nero Effect on the timeline wasn’t a radical departure for “when” the Enterprise was constructed, but was instead jumping up the ‘arms race’ and the need for a refit so that the Enterprise was completely refurbished in ’55 instead of ’70, a full fifteen years ahead of time. (This I like thematically, since it’s a literalization of the behind-the-scenes desire to make the ship feel more realistic.)

300. CommanderCrisco - February 21, 2013

Ha ! They screwed it up. Not really surprised because non of this crap is going to be in the movie. Would it REALLY have been that difficult throwing the classic Enterprise into the comic for those 2 damn panels? Would it really be that bad if April had an old fashioned uniform? Nothing is sacred I suppose. Considering that only the fans are buying the comics you think they would at least give us that. Ah well.

301. Matt - February 21, 2013

Here’s a question: Do you guys think this Robert April was ever involved with Sarah? were they engaged to be married or were they even acquaintances?

302. Trek in a Cafe - February 21, 2013

Even though the original Star Trek bible clearly stated over and over again that Kirks’ woman was his ship, I doubt this alt-Kirk is so unreformed. I predict he gets together with Carol and they actually have son. And why shouldn’t they? This is the future. A man can do both. This is 2013, not 1967.

303. Phil - February 21, 2013

@302. Oh, in this universe he’ll probably have a baseball team when he’s done….

304. Chris Roberts - February 21, 2013

299. April’s Enterprise couldn’t possibly have the NX-02 registry. That belonged to the Columbia.

Try something like NX or NCC-0701, if the USS Kelvin was NCC-0514 just before the timeline deviated between the TOS mid-to-late 23rd Century and alternate movie version.

305. Chris Roberts - February 21, 2013

Robert April is too good a character to remain stuck in the panels of a comic-book in my opinion, or in books as has long been the case.

A shame Star Trek Into Darkness hasn’t lifted somekind of deaging drug, like that seen in Next Generation episode “Too Short a Season”, so he can pass everyone by unnoticed, and come looking to save his ship from the wrecking yard.

306. Craiger - February 21, 2013

Anyone remember that Roddenberry portrayed Captain April?

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:CptRobertApril.jpg

307. Remington Steele - February 21, 2013

#293

Also, don’t say a single bad word against Chris Pine or we’re all in trouble! :-P

Quite a good comic, although Spock going commando is a bit mad to be fair…it’s not like him really.

308. NuFan - February 21, 2013

Maybe he was Captain of the tugboat Enterprise.

309. The Sinfonian - February 21, 2013

@262 Giez, I wonder sometimes, whether these are purposeful removals, or if it’s a script that’s running. What was strange, was my comments were restored for a while, and then they were gone.

As if someone was checking. Well, here’s my test if this is a script. Read the credits for Countdown to Darkness #2 *very* closely. There’s a name in the credits I find *very* interesting. Let me try the alpha-omega effect, and state that name is Atohnny Psaclae. Rather familiar, no? I suspect that if it’s a script removing that name, it won’t recognize it this time. If this post disappears, then it’s intentional.

310. The Sinfonian - February 21, 2013

Do you ever get the sense that Harcourt Fenton Mudd, is just the 23rd century equivalent of the Dread Pirate Roberts? Could be! Remember when we first meet Harry Mudd in Mudd’s Women, he’s going under a different name, that of Leo Francis Walsh. Makes you wonder who he really was!

311. Ello - February 21, 2013

@309 Can’t believe I didn’t catch that.

312. Yar's love child - February 21, 2013

Enterprise wasn’t commissioned until 2245 in the original timeline. There is no way a previous Enterprise could possibly fit into cannon. The timing of April’s disappearance would mean there was an Enterprise in service prior to 2233 (and the events of the first movie). I suppose it’s possible it was never mentioned in any of the prior series, but you have a clean slate here, why try to wedge this into it? Just seems sloppy.

313. Ello - February 21, 2013

We’re also taking the 20 years statement by Kirk too literal. If someone was lost maybe 17 years ago, wouldn’t you round it up in casual conversation? I know I would. The exact dates are nonsense anyways. Enjoy this back-story, it’s going to directly influence the movie, and I’m excited to see the character of Robert April, whether he appears in the movie or just influences it. Go, Trek, Go.

314. The Sinfonian - February 21, 2013

@311 Well, Ello, a few of us have caught it, but we dare not spake the name Voldemort on the website. I’m rather convinced it’s just a script running that removes his last name from comments. This is upsetting in that the French physicist whose first name is Blaise, probably can’t be mentioned… and that the SI unit for pressure, equivalent to 1 newton per square meter better not be mentioned! :)

I’m certain that all the numbers will work out in the end. Since Voldemort is a creative consultant now, and Boborci is involved, there’s no way they’ve messed it up. We’re just not interpreting the data correctly.

Bob won’t screw around with 2233 being the point of diversion. I re-read Final Frontier and clearly the prime April Enterprise was almost finished in 2242, or they couldn’t have taken it on an outing to Romulus in 2243 with George Kirk. So, if it had begun construction ~2237 in the prime universe, it’s sure reasonable that Starfleet would have accelerated post-Narada in the JJverse. Surely it could have launched in the late 2230′s. Since STID takes place in late 2259 or early 2260, that’s almost 25 years. More than enough time to have April serve and then disappear for almost 20. Remember in Final Frontier (a novel Boborci referenced some years ago in discussions here) that Robert April is in charge of the “Starship Project”. It was underway for some time. He was “captain” long before the ship took off, so sure he could have been captain for 10 years. I just can’t figure this: George Kirk died in the JJverse in 2233. So, how can Enterprise end up with that name, rather than Constitution?

315. Gary S - February 21, 2013

If April was Captain of the Original Enterprise And in the movie ,
That would be two Captains of The Enterprise facing off against each other .
I could live with that .

316. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - February 21, 2013

@194. Rose (as in Keachick)

Just popped over here to browse the thread and saw your question, which no-one seems to have answered. I did a quick internet browse and it seems WRT is short for With Regard To

317. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - February 21, 2013

307. Remington Steele

“Quite a good comic, although Spock going commando is a bit mad to be fair…it’s not like him really.”

I haven’t read the whole comic, only what is published in this review, but I gather from several comments that Spock has gone off and done something impulsive and out of character. If that’s correct then that would follow on quite well with what’s been going on in the Star Trek Ongoing comics. In various issues we are getting scenes (both explicit and implied) between Spock and Uhura in which she is expressing concern that rather than just logically doing his duty he seems to have a death wish and is taking risks without thinking them through. This appears to be a set up for showing how much the destruction of Vulcan etc is still affecting how he thinks and acts and we will see more of this in play out in STID. This Spock isn’t TOS Spock – he is younger and has had some devastatingly different life experiences.

318. This is going to be a long year - February 21, 2013

I might be reading to much into this but…

About April’s Enterprise being decommissioned 2 years ago. Into Darkness take’s place about a year after Trek 09.

On top of that the JJ-Enterprise would have been ready before the Vulcan rescue mission. Ships that complicated do not launch without serious testing.

It is odd that you would reassign the name Enterprise within months of mothballing April’s Enterprise.

This sort of thing happens if a ship is lost in a heroic action, not if it is peacefully retired.

Unless April’s Enterprise was still on the books as being in commission despite being lost.

319. This is going to be a long year - February 21, 2013

Or maybe April’s Enterprise disappeared on a mission, was then found and given a proper decommissioning?

320. Historian_Levi - February 21, 2013

Just want to point out again, that the previous Countdown 4 issue prequel books featured Nero as the main villian, and who was the main villian of Trek 09? Nero

So far this series has followed the same path that the first countdown series had.

again I am 100 percent certain April plays a big part in the Into Darkness, otherwise he could have been relagated the ongoing monthly series.

321. Craiger - February 21, 2013

Right after Kirk destroyed the Enterprise in ST 3 they renamed the Yorktown, the Enterprise 1701-A.

322. Red Dead Ryan - February 21, 2013

The Yorktown/Enterprise A had to be at least 40 years old at the time of TVH. It’s why the ship wasn’t functioning properly in TFF, and was decommisioned in after TUC.

323. Historian_Levi - February 21, 2013

Sorry that should have said featured Nero as the main new character featured in the 4 issue 09 countdown series.

324. dmduncan - February 21, 2013

I think the pod scene shows Joseph Gatt (GATT 2000) alongside BC (Harrison).

325. Giez - February 21, 2013

@309. The Sinfonian
It’s still there. I have a feeling when posts get close… they disappear.

Thee are so mant theories here it is funny. I keep thinking back to all promos. “I have returned to have my vengence”… Who the hell NEEDS VENGENCE???!!!

Who needs “Vengence”?? If you read old mags, STII was supposed to be the “STII: The Vengence of Khan”… that was nixed when Star Wars couldn’t realize that Jedi had no Vengence…

Based upon what I have seen, 2parts comix, promos, trailers and hersay… BC is Khan. Just a different Khan. Love the April Comix so far, they should just do that as a web animated series instead!

326. Giez - February 21, 2013

All the arguments on “what Enterprise” are funny. but, that’s what pays your gig, right Boborci??!! it’s the NXNX-010101701 …haha who cares…

PS: Nice job again

I bought my Fandango early tix on the 15th, wife & I will travel 80miles to get seated, earlier than Batman this time… Imax & 3d. I can’t wait.

Nice play Orci… Nice play…

327. The Sinfonian - February 21, 2013

@325 True, “The Vengeance of Khan” was changed to avoid confusion with “The Revenge of the Jedi”.

So, April’s had almost 20 years in the shadows? I wonder if the Shadows he’s contending with are “timeline creatures” of some sort that are trying to undo Nero’s damage. Still have a gut feeling that April found the Botany Bay, and has had 20 years to manipulate them. Harrison could certainly be one of his puppets. So could Khan N.S. I somehow think Joseph Gatt is playing “the” Khan, but he’s been injured by 20 years of whatever April’s up to. Harrison is his protege. That’s why they’re walking together. Khan in the JJverse has been damaged/deformed/de-haired by April’s operations. So, he passes on the Khanate to John Harrison. Thus Harrison is “Khan”.

328. MJ - February 21, 2013

@324 Gatt is a expert actor for motion capture for CGI films. He may be playing a CGI Khan that will be seen in one or two scenes in the movie.

329. Giez - February 21, 2013

I keep thinking it makes no sense any federation ship found the BB and “didn’t” reprt it unless overtaken….sure it’s a ship, but one with people alive. No sense to hide. In a major movie you cant make the stars that dumb…Klingons, yes maybe they find it. IDK…

330. Mawazitus - February 21, 2013

If anyone cares, here is a cropped and “enhanced” image of “April’s Gatling Gun” from the STID trailer:
http://i.minus.com/ibl4E5K7PoTQZu.png

331. Gary S - February 21, 2013

Giez, what truth?
Posts dissapear here all the time.
The site has glitches and Anthony isnt always here to catch them.
Anthonys involvement with the comic isnt exactly a secret.
If anybody came up the real storyline among all of the theories ,
it wouldnt be erased, that draws attention to it, it would be left up
So no one could tell the difference between real thing and all the other theories .
I am certain that several people have either guessed it or part of it more than once .

332. boborci - February 21, 2013

211

Todos mis movimmientos estan friamente calculados;)

333. Hagru - February 21, 2013

Could this be perhaps April’s Enterprise? http://scifanatic.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/stid-t2-26.jpg

334. Gary S - February 21, 2013

Bob, did you just say “All of my moves are carefully Premeditated?”

335. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - February 21, 2013

As I don’t reside in the Americas, I went to Google for that quote – very funny, and because of the context, we are none the wiser… Once I stopped laughing, I thought I’d put this up just in case I’m not the only one who didn’t understand this. Wikipedia says this is a famous saying of the character El Chapulín Colorado (English: The Red Grasshopper) :-

‘Todos mis movimientos están fríamente calculados” (“All my movements are coldly calculated”) – his explanation for falling on his face, breaking something valuable, etc. May be spoken stand-alone, but always follows the previous quote.’

The previous quote by the way is :

‘Lo hice intencionalmente, para…” (“I did it intentionally, to…”)- to justify a dumb action, for example: “I did it intentionally to calculate the resistance of the wall”, after walking straight into it.’

336. Harry Ballz - February 22, 2013

Bob, I’m sure your coldly calculated moves will be warmly received.

Of course, when cold meets warm, some may be left in a fog.

Damn, I’m getting misty just thinking about it!

337. Gary S - February 22, 2013

#335.Thanks for the clarification .

338. Jack - February 22, 2013

Nice. ;),

339. crazydaystrom - February 22, 2013

308. NuFan -
“Maybe he was Captain of the tugboat Enterprise.”

HA!
Mayhap, NuFan, Mayhap.

340. Jemini - February 22, 2013

so since Uhura is the captain at the moment , is Bones her first officer? lol
I loved their interaction!

341. Bob Mack - February 22, 2013

Did Bob Orci ever reveal what “the big lie” was? Perhaps the comics are NOT canon? They seem to be throwing a lot of stuff in there that might be intended only to throw people off the scent of what may happen in STID.

342. Skulltrail - February 22, 2013

@330

That’s an very interesting shot of the gun!!! As you can see the insignias at near the end of the gun are the same as they were on Cumberbatch’s clothes when he was on the Empire-Cover!

@333
If you would only watch on the deflector dish this would be not so far off but having a look at the nacelles, you will see big nacelles from Kirk’s E!

343. Jemini - February 22, 2013

341: I don’t remember why but I assumed that the lie was about the villain being a canon character or not

344. The Mighty Chip - February 22, 2013

Guys I just had a crazy idea…. I have no idea if this fits or not but…..

A lot of us took issue with the last movie for having the Enterprise being built on the ground instead of in orbit (since it makes no sense from an engineering standpoint).

Well… what if that wasn’t the nuEnterprise being built? What if it was the recently-decomissioned April’s Enterprise being dismantled and scrapped? Dismantling a starship on the ground makes a lot more practical sense than building one on the ground.

Other than a brief glimpse at the hull number (which as many have speculated could have been shared by April’s Enterprise) is there anything suggesting that ship in Iowa is the same one we see in spacedock three years later?

Like I said, just a crazy idea I had. I’m not really 100% sure I believe it myself but it’s something to think about.

345. The Last Vulcan - February 22, 2013

Yes, boborci is continuing to demonstrate that he and the Court are supreme masters, with his cold calculations. However, IMHO there are enough breadcrumbs left to put together the vast majority of a good loaf. Here we go.

Let’s start with the question: Why bring in April? Lots of reasons:

1) Blank slate, so the Court can write him in any way they want but it’s still “canonical” and guaranteed to bring Trekkers to “paroxysms of ecstasy.” (Ah, evil memories of Braga and Berman… I shudder to remember those dastardly Bs.)
2) He’s the senior Capt. of the E so he gains immediate respect from the current crew, which helps his plan (which we know he is committed to as correct in his view).
3) He’s the hub of the divergence into the current universe. Pike and Marcus were part of his crew and it’s a continuity masterstroke.
4) Due to his age and the “decommissioning” of his E, he’s had plenty of time to hang out in some obscure corner of the quadrant. Perhaps his E was in mothballs and he manages to get it back in order to… here it comes…

GET KHAN.

I am absolutely convinced that Khan’s eugenics is somehow translated by the Court to be developed into a fountain of youth and superpowers. After all, the ultimate eugenics superbeing would be one that would be eternally young and have capabilities well beyond normal humans (jumping 30 feet in the air is just the beginning.)

So…

The Court has (probably) pulled a V’Ger on Khan. What do I mean by that? The Botany Bay gets found somewhere 20 years before, most likely by April. There is ANOTHER (as yet unknown) alien race that gets involved and they V’Ger/blend Khan (and his augments’) eugenics genetics into superpower/youth, etc. You can bet your bottom bar of gold pressed latinum that Ms. Mudd is in the middle of all this trying to make a buck. Possibly the scene with all the cyberchambers and GATT in the background is on this alien planet where they’re working out the genetics, and that’s April walking next to him. April (possibly) wants to improve all Federation humanoids into augments as he believes it is the “next step” in evolution and would bring incalculable benefits (freedom from illness, extended life, etc. etc. etc.) Maybe, just maybe, April and the aliens can’t figure out a way to revive the augments which would solve the problem of another actor playing Khan. Just CGI Montalban’s face into one of the chambers and voila, there’s your Khan.

So…

Of course the Klingons get a whiff of this and they want the supersauce just for their warriors so that they can take over the quadrant faster than you can say “Gowron has bulgy eyes.” They grab the sauce and/or the cyberchambers themselves and take them off to Quo’Nos. April deages himself, adopts Starfleet Officer Harrison’s identity and off he goes to get them back. Of course the Federation has caught on by now so they send Kirk and crew to get there first. That’s when Harrison is captured and put in the brig of the 1701 where he tempts Kirk and Spock with the “rightness” of his views. He, of course, escapes, gets back to April’s E and starts the attack on Earth which sees BOTH Es crash.

And that, with possibly minor variations, is the plot.

You may now genuflect to the Greater (Last) Vulcan Intellect. Thank you. :)

346. Scottevill - February 22, 2013

This is all very interesting about Robert April, the timeline, and making Harry Mudd both a lady and a Bajoran but IMO the pertinent detail about the movie in this issue is Spock outlining what happens when a Starship captain violates the PD: his first officer places him under arrest and the ship “immediately returns to earth” for court-martial.

That’s what happens at the start of Into Darkness. We’ve already seen the violation in the offing in the Raider-style preview footage and heard Spock warning him not to do it. Kirk will save Spock’s life, violating the PD, and upon returning to the ship, Spock will arrest him. Count on it.

347. Craiger - February 22, 2013

I wonder if JJ wants to combine the popularity of the Superhero movies with STID by adding the Khan/Augument/Eternal Youth ideas?

348. Jack - February 22, 2013

289. Sorry for the delay, Craiger. I read the comic in IDW’s app the day it came out. But I think they can be read in a browser too.

349. Trek in a Cafe - February 22, 2013

Re 345: will someone have a secret army like Attack of the Clones?

350. Jack - February 22, 2013

346. Hmmm.

351. Ben Yoris (FR) - February 22, 2013

Why has my message about a model kit been removed ? :(

352. Ben Yoris (FR) - February 22, 2013

Oops sorry, I spoke too quickly.

353. Chris Roberts - February 22, 2013

344. That’s brilliant! A perfect explanation if ever they wanted to claim they never abandoned what the Prime Universe established, about starships being built in space.

IF that was April’s Enterprise being dismantled…

354. Curious Cadet - February 22, 2013

On an unrelated note:

WILLIAM SHATNER has suggested they name PLUTO’S newly discovered UNNAMED MOON — get ready for this … “VULCAN”.

Hmmmm. What to name a previously unknown moon around a well known (ex)planet … I’m thinking “DELTA VEGA”. What do you think boborci?

355. The Mighty Chip - February 22, 2013

@353 Chris Roberts – Thanks for the support! Although like I said I haven’t even really convinced myself of it. It would be an interesting twist I think but something in the back of my head is saying it doesn’t fit with *something* in the information we know so far about the movie.

@354 Curious Cadet – Hate to burst your bubble but I seem to recall reading an article awhile back saying they’ve already named some extrasolar planet Delta Vega.

356. Jack - February 22, 2013

349. I wish somebody would order me a secret army.

I kind of loved that in whichever Star Wars it was (I don’t like naming the prequels): “Oh, hey. You must be here to pick up the army. Sign here.”

357. crazydaystrom - February 22, 2013

344. The Mighty Chip -
“… what if that wasn’t the nuEnterprise being built?…….Like I said, just a crazy idea I had. I’m not really 100% sure I believe it myself but it’s something to think about.”

Something to think about indeed, TMC. As implied, crazy ideas appeal to me. I like yours. It’s exactly the sort thing clever writers can use for an out-of-left-field ah-HA!

358. Curious Cadet - February 22, 2013

@355. The Mighty Chip,
“Hate to burst your bubble but I seem to recall reading an article awhile back saying they’ve already named some extrasolar planet Delta Vega.”

Hate to burst yours, but i dont think so. And if im wrong and there is … well that’s EXACTLY the point. There was already a well known planet named Delta Vega in the Star Trek universe.

359. crazydaystrom - February 22, 2013

327. The Sinfonian -
“Still have a gut feeling that April found the Botany Bay, and has had 20 years to manipulate them. Harrison could certainly be one of his puppets.”

Yeah. With the evidence of Harrison having April’s gun there would seem to be a connection between the two, but I haven’t seen any evidence that indicates Harrison being ANYBODY’S puppet. If anything, the contrary.

360. The Mighty Chip - February 22, 2013

@358 Curious Cadet:

I tried searching for the article and couldn’t find anything, so maybe you’re right and I was thinking of something else (wouldn’t be the first time).

On a semi-related side note, apparently “Delta” and “Vega” have something to do with options trading…. somehow.

361. The Last Vulcan - February 22, 2013

360. The Mighty Chip – I have a better connection: Delta 88 and Vega were 70s GM cars. Kirk tossed a GM car off a cliff. The Federation is actually an descendant of General Motors and is still getting Washington’s bailout money! :)

362. Curious Cadet - February 22, 2013

@359. crazydaystrom,
“With the evidence of Harrison having April’s gun there would seem to be a connection between the two”

He allegedly has AN “April Big Gun” (the name as seen in a presumed STID ProTools sound file database), NOT April’s personal weapon. There is absolutely NO concrete evidence the gun we see Harrison with in the trailers is called this in the movie, or otherwise connected directly to April.

363. Tommbe - February 22, 2013

Alex Marcus…..Alex Murphy/ Robocop……. A clue mayhaps ?

364. Curious Cadet - February 22, 2013

@363 Tommbe,

Well Marcus is serendipitous, but yeah, choosing “Alex” could definitely be pre-meditated. Now that we know Carol Marcus’ father is a viable character, I’m convinced that’s who Weller plays. It fits all the clues as well, including being a “newly created character” by Orci. Given that he was April’s XO, also gives us a tie to April without actually having April in the film (though Nolan North is as yet unaccounted for).

This also gives me insight into Orci’s answers in the infamous interview — he does not consider unmentioned family canon. In other words, one could assume Carol Marcus had a father, but unless he was specifically mentioned on film (named or not), then he is considered a new and originally created character (as he should). So, Harrison is definitely canon, and therefore must have been mentioned or seen on film. So, he’s not somebody’s unmentioned relative. I know this doesn’t affect most, but this was still a possibility for me, that Harrison might have been an unmentioned relative of an interesting canon character.

365. Red Dead Ryan - February 22, 2013

I don’t think that was April’s Enterprise being dismantled in Iowa in the last movie. Why would Kirk go out in the middle of nowhere on his bike to watch an old ship (which happens to look exactly like the one he would eventually command) he had nothing to do with?

I see the Iowa construction scene as a moment of inspiration for young Kirk to enter the academy. The Enterprise construction site is where he later leaves to go the academy.

So for the writers to later suggest that Kirk was watching the April’s ship being dismantled really alters the context of that portion of movie to the point where it becomes similar to the “Spider-Man 3″ retconning of Uncle Ben’s murder in “Spider-Man” where it turned out the robber wasn’t the shooter, but merely the getaway driver.

I honestly don’t think the writers are going to start retconning after only two movies in the new timeline which they created to be able to avoid having to do just that in the first place.

366. Gary S - February 22, 2013

356 The movie to which you refer is the only film in The Star Wars Saga
that I have only seen once .

367. The Mighty Chip - February 22, 2013

@365 Red Dead Ryan –

Yeah you’re probably right. Like I’ve been saying my idea is more of a “hey wouldn’t it be cool if” than it is a serious theory.

But just for the sake of argument, I always just assumed Kirk went to the shipyard that night because that’s where Pike told him to go the next morning if he wanted to enlist, and so Kirk went there to ponder and think. This might just be me but I always felt like the “ship under construction” scene was more for the audience than it was for Kirk to have an inspiration moment.

368. The Last Vulcan - February 22, 2013

Alex Marcus could be Weller BUT keep in mind he stated he’s a type of CEO. Therefore it all works into my plot in post #345. When April started his secret sauce factory with the alien race Pike wanted nothing to do with it and bolted, while Marcus stuck around to develop the sauce with GATT, etc. and get it ready to market. There would be serious gold pressed latinum in a youth and superpower serum. :)

369. Curious Cadet - February 22, 2013

@355/365 The Mighty Chip/Red Dead Ryan,

A ship cannot be scrapped until it is decommissioned. The comic takes place in 2259, Kirk tells April the ship was decommissioned two years earlier in 2257. We saw the Enterprise on the ground in 2255. It was being built, not dismantled.

Most likely the old Enterprise was decommissioned just in time for the launch of the new one. Again, this unusual situation presumably being necessary as Starfleet seems to be short on ships. The fact they would still decommission a functional ship demonstrates that they are not so desperate for ships they are going to keep around the original NX Enterprise from a 100 years ago.

370. Rose ( as in Keachick ) - February 22, 2013

It’s not fair that Red Dead Ryan, MJ, and K& are once again picking on me and slinging verbal assault’s at me over my protected rights and opinions that I made on the Alice Eve thread.

Geesh Grow up and Man up

371. Killamarshtrek - February 22, 2013

@362
There seems to be a whole lot of ‘April’ going on here now doesn’t there! Personally I’m more interested in May!

372. Rose ( as in Keachick ) - February 22, 2013

It’s not fair that Red Dead Ryan, MJ, and K7 are once again picking on me and slinging verbal assault’s at me over my protected rights and opinions that I made on the Alice Eve thread.
Geesh Grow up and Man up

373. Red Dead Ryan - February 22, 2013

#372.

And its not fair that you resort to political trolling and flaming, and after some of us respond, you end up playing the victim card by suggesting we are being bullies.

Sheesh!

374. Rose ( as in Keachick ) - February 22, 2013

There is nothing to suggest, YOU ARE ALL Bullies

375. Gary S - February 22, 2013

Okay I know a lot of people have a problem with the idea of a deaged April.
What about a Deaged Alex Marcus?
Just throwing it out there .

376. NCC-0150 - February 22, 2013

@374 Rose -

I’m confused. It seems to me that them voicing their own counter-opinions IS fair, considering they are excercising the same protected rights to their opinions that you are calling on.

I know I don’t really have a stake in this fight but it sounds like whatever is happening you can’t really call the other side bullies without also admitting you’re one yourself.

If I might suggest a compromise: how about everyone, on both sides, forget the politics and the prejudices and remember this is a Star Trek fansite, not the comments section on a Yahoo! news article.

Point being if you guys want to troll, at least troll on-topic.

Here I’ll even start:
BC is Khan! Peter Weller plays a alt-verse version of Data! April’s Enterprise is a V’Ger-style collision of the NX-01 and the TOS Enterprise! April is played by CGI-Montelban! Kirk was dead the whole time!

377. DiscoSpock - February 22, 2013

@372. You are completely without honor to bring up your crap again here Rose afte your tremendous bad behavior recently. And for the record there were about ten of us from Southern California who were morbidly insulted by your out of control antics and heartless antics regarding the Southern California recent violence/

I request that YOU IMMEDIATLEY STOP trying to hide beyond beyond some false impression you are attempting to give here that this is all just something that “MJ’s trio” cooked up to bully you with. Far from it. Phil, THX1138, Admiral Archer’s Prize Beagle, Disinvited, Red Shirt Diaries, Ahmed, AJ, and a couple of others were stunned by this.. This was like 95% of the people all being totally shocked and/or insulted by your crap posts. Own up to it, Rose…you created this bad blood, not anyone else.

Only taking responsibility for your bad behaviors and offering a “no excuses apology” can help to start to reduce the ill-will you’ve createrd here with Southern Californians and Norh Americans.

Us Southern Californians are still waiting for a realy apology from you here?

378. Phil - February 22, 2013

This is the fake Rose posting. Nothing to see here…..or get upset about.

379. DiscoSpock - February 22, 2013

@378. If its a fake Rose, then I am still waiting for a full “no excuses apology” from the real Rose then. Fake or not, I am still really irritated by her earlier posts,which were way out of the bounds of common decency.

She needs to learn the lesson once and for all that her cavalier attitude of superiority and condescension towards people in the U.S. isn’t going to be accepted by us anymore here. Her act is getting really tired.

380. crazydaystrom - February 22, 2013

362. Curious Cadet -
“He allegedly has AN “April Big Gun” (the name as seen in a presumed STID ProTools sound file database), NOT April’s personal weapon. There is absolutely NO concrete evidence the gun we see Harrison with in the trailers is called this in the movie, or otherwise connected directly to April.”

Correct. Which is why I said ‘evidence’ and did not say ‘proof’. And why I said “…there would *seem* to be a connection between the two”. My statement was qualified.

381. The Sinfonian - February 22, 2013

Clearly, when April’s Enterprise was decommissioned in 2250something (we don’t know for certain that Pike’s Enterprise launched in 2258, it could have been 2257 or 2256… just NOT 2255 when it was still aground in Iowa) it wasn’t scrapped.

It was renamed USS Yorktown. ;) Full circle.

382. crazydaystrom - February 22, 2013

I’ll just comment on this NZ vs SC thing…just once.

FOR THE LOVE OF TREK! That’s why we’re all of us here – for the love of Star Trek. It doesn’t seem apologies would be forthcoming and would be look at with a dubious eye if they were. So why not all concerned parties agree to not speak of these things again and attempt to be cool, level and civil. That’ll be my only comment on that issue.

Have you guys heard there’s a new Star Trek movie coming out? I think Sybok’s going to be the ‘big bad’. ;-)

383. Gary S - February 22, 2013

While I doubt it is Sybok, it would be intruiging if it was.
It would put Spock in a real bind .

384. Phil - February 22, 2013

@382. Well, I keep bringing up space elevators and starship falsework, and no one seems to care about the working conditions of 23rd century shipyard workers….

Sybok? I heard it was going to be Spocbok….

385. Phil - February 22, 2013

Brotherhood of Shipyard Workers Earth Local 1701, Iowa.

I smell an Emmy….

386. MJ - February 22, 2013

re: crazydastrom

“Correct. Which is why I said ‘evidence’ and did not say ‘proof’. And why I said “…there would *seem* to be a connection between the two”. My statement was qualified.”

Yea, I think you make a reasoned case of good conjecture that the gun could be the Big April Gun. Not sure why Curious Cadet was so adamant that is was not that gun?

“I’ll just comment on this NZ vs SC thing…just once.FOR THE LOVE OF TREK! That’s why we’re all of us here – for the love of Star Trek. It doesn’t seem apologies would be forthcoming and would be look at with a dubious eye if they were. So why not all concerned parties agree to not speak of these things again and attempt to be cool, level and civil. That’ll be my only comment on that issue.”

I agree completely. So long at the anti-U.S. crap doesn’t reappear ever again from her, I am willing to forget this and be civil towards her from this point forward. Let’s move on. In fact, I forgive her and wish her the best, and hope she and I can get back to discussing Trek again like old times. I will say not more on this matter.

387. MJ - February 22, 2013

Given how SW is going to do all of these new prequel character movies, perhaps Trek should do the same thing. I can see it now, a new universe teen Kirk behaving badly at his high school……

Paramount Pictures Presents

A Seth McFarland Production

A Judd Apatow Film

Joel Courtney as Young Kirk

Willow Smith at Young Uhura

Bill Murray as Principal Ed Rooney…….

in…..

“James T. Kirk’s Day Off”

388. Chris Roberts - February 22, 2013

Oh well, I had fun anyway – - – thinking about what Kirk actually saw, was an older Enterprise being broken up on the ground.

Apart from the decommission date being a few years out, I thought it was an interesting way to subvert the message and restore the idea that starships are built in space.

389. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 22, 2013

Disco Spock Like I said in the Alice Eve thread,People should read all the posts here before making up their minds. Most longtime posters do know me reasonably well, as well as people like MJ. MJ – you know I don’t hate whole groups of people or nations, so why do you write this stuff?
Quit trying to deny me my protected rights.

And the number of people affected by Christopher Dohrner in L.A. was grossly exaggerated. Not to mention indicating he had a WMD.
The same thing is going on with the “ManHunt” from Vegas to L.A. for the shooters in the accident in Vegas, that killed some small time would be rapper. The media is distorting it , they barely affect anyone.

Leave me alone, geesh

390. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 22, 2013

So let me get this straight MJ, after a year of B.C. is Khan, your now doing an about face and saying that Gatt is Mo Cap Khan.

Tell me then Mr wizard why is he not in a green Mo Cap suit in the photo we have seen of Mr Gatt.

391. Red Dead Ryan - February 22, 2013

#389.

“And the number of people affected by Christopher Dohrner in L.A. was grossly exaggerated. Not to mention indicating he had a WMD.
The same thing is going on with the “ManHunt” from Vegas to L.A. for the shooters in the accident in Vegas, that killed some small time would be rapper. The media is distorting it , they barely affect anyone.”

This is a prime example of why some of us are upset with you. Here you go again reducing a tragedy that has affected (at least on an emotional level) several posters who live in Southern California. And then you go and blame the media.

As for the “small time rapper” who was killed in Las Vegas, his name was Tupac Shakur, one of the all-time greatest rappers ever. He was killed sixteen years ago. He has sold millions of records worldwide.

Sheesh!

392. D-Rock - February 22, 2013

391

Not sure if you’re serious or not, but she’s referring to the shooting in LV yesterday. During which an innocent cab driver and rider were killed alongside the rapper. Been at that same spot in Vegas a few times. I can see when you’re far removed from something geography wise, it may seem like no big deal. But it’s a big deal.

393. Red Dead Ryan - February 22, 2013

#392.

Didn’t know about that. But still, its yet another example of Keachick reducing and making light of another shooting tragedy, and then accusing the media distorting it.

394. MJ - February 22, 2013

@389. Hey Imposter, you are not Rose. Nice try. She is a hell of a lot better writer than you.

@391. RDR, that is not the real Rose. Ignore the impostor.

395. MJ - February 22, 2013

@390. Dude, that is perhaps the most piss-poor attempt to pretend you are someone else in the history of Trekmovie.com. LOL

“saying that Gatt is Mo Cap Khan.”

“Tell me then Mr wizard why is he not in a green Mo Cap suit .”

LOL. That’s just pathetic, dude.

Bring your A-game the next time you try to fool me, doechebag.

396. K-7 - February 22, 2013

MJ, these posts sound a lot like that guy awhile back who tried to steal your name and then was calling himself Mark James Tucker, before that name then mysteriously disappeared.

Looks like your crackpot stalker is back, MJ. :-)

397. Rose - February 22, 2013

Ok fine, I am sorry. I just get really worked up about some things and I don’t know when to stop. But what do you expect? My life revolves around a Science Fiction TV show. If anything, you should pity me…

398. DiscoSpock - February 22, 2013

#397

Thanks for that, Rose.

Good to have the real you back. You’ve been missed.

Let’s move onto Star Trek stuff now please, everyone.

399. Red Shirt Diaries - February 22, 2013

Rose, thank you so much for apologizing!!!

400. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - February 22, 2013

@396 K-7

He/she might even have been the infamous BABY harassing a number of us on the Star Trek #18 thread before the moderator consigned his/her posts to the Oort cloud.

…or am I still naive regarding the prevalence of this sort of thing?

401. Historian_Levi - February 22, 2013

I just re read issue 2 again, can not wait for issue 3 next month.

402. Phil - February 22, 2013

@400. No, you aren’t.

Not sure it’s Baby, though. Post 397 is fake, too.

403. dmduncan - February 22, 2013

Mudd. Gotta be his wife or something.

404. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - February 22, 2013

Mudd might just be an alias. TOS Harcourt Fenton Mudd himself had several aliases… And I would be bitterly disappointed if his wife was someone other than Stella ;-) Maybe the Bajoran lady works for Mudd Inc?

How long till the next issue…

405. MJ - February 22, 2013

@397. Rose, thanks for providing the apology.

406. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 22, 2013

“#399 Rose” is not me either.

407. Jason - February 23, 2013

Thank you poster number 253, for setting off the chain reaction that threatens to derail this thread.

253. K-7 – February 20, 2013
#78 #91 #92 #92

All, lest people not be aware of it, I wanted to point out that Rose (as in Keachick) is still carrying on her negative comments about American’s from the recent Alice Eve article where she made light of the Dorner attacks in LA and was very critical of Americans. Here are some of her most recent comments:

That little rant could have gone without saying.
Please lets stick to the subject of issue 2 of the comic

408. Joe - February 23, 2013

Got to love how Rose, just came right out in post 406 and in so many words said she didn’t apologize to those she offended.

409. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - February 23, 2013

I agree with Jason – can we please stick to Star Trek related topics at least.

Please draw a line under it, people. If pseudonyms are being hijacked, we can’t be completely sure who is saying what .

Even if the real people are really saying things which are inciting the other real people, sometimes you’ve got to just let go for the sake of your sanity. I’m guessing most of us are in our 30s to 60s, not children in a playground arguing over who’s fault it is and who started it.

410. JP - February 23, 2013

How do we know any of us are real? What does it mean to be real? What is the nature of reality? Is my reality the same as your reality? If not, how can I be sure any of you are really here?

GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!

Hi.

411. JP - February 23, 2013

Can’t make an omlette without breaking some eggs. What if I wanted them over-easy?

412. JP - February 23, 2013

Replicated eggs… suck. Pass it on.

413. JP - February 23, 2013

What’s the point of padding a post count when there is no post count?

WHO WATCHES THE WATCHERS?

414. JP - February 23, 2013

I always hate when writes say, this script is so “meta”. Of yeah? Well I meta your meta!

Meta meta meta. Like the TraceBuster Buster Buster.

415. JP - February 23, 2013

Is it still called ‘absurdist humour’ if you’re actually crazy?

416. Remington Steele - February 23, 2013

Being too lazy to read all the comments, we all picked up that Aprils second in command was named Marcus right….and who is Alice Eve playing?

Shoe betcha.

If we all picked up on this then disregard this post…

417. Jack - February 23, 2013

i thought Eve was playing a lady Marcus Welby.

418. gary thx - February 23, 2013

#72

Sounds like that would be a good movie… me like.

419. Commodore Adams - February 23, 2013

Countdown to darkness is okay so far the writing and subject matter is not the best, I am enjoying the two latest issues of the ongoing series more than I am the countdown so far. The original countdown was fantastic, this is kinda meh so far, Kirk and Spock finding April helping with an alien civil war, its not overly enticing. I am hoping issue 3 and 4 will offer something more.

420. dmduncan - February 23, 2013

404

Or maybe Mudd and the Bajoran chick swapped katras with the katra-swap machine on Camus II from Turnabout Intruder (TOS Ep. # 79). And now Mudd is roaming the galaxy looking for the bitch who stuck him in the body of a hot blond Bajoran woman.

Because ever since she was little, she felt like a large, beer-bellied, balding man with a handlebar mustache.

421. Ahmed - February 23, 2013

@ 419. Commodore Adams – February 23, 2013

“Countdown to darkness is okay so far the writing and subject matter is not the best, I am enjoying the two latest issues of the ongoing series more than I am the countdown so far. The original countdown was fantastic, this is kinda meh”

Agreed, the new Countdown story is not as engaging or exciting as the first one. Lets hope the movie will prove to be a lot more interesting than the prequel comics

422. Curious Cadet - February 23, 2013

@380 crazydaystrom,

I wasn’t so much saying your statement was unqualified, but rather taking exception of your use of the possessive in your response as the qualified evidence: “With the evidence of Harrison having April’s gun”.

I don’t believe there is any evidence anywhere that the gun has ever been called “April’s gun”, yet people have been using this as evidence that Harrison is a de-aged April since the whole gun thing broke. Upon re-reading your post, I’m not sure if you are making that assertion or just inadvertently parroting the misinformation that’s circling the web. So my appologies if I appeared too critical — clearly there could be a link between April and Harrison, and likely is, if only in the same way Khan and Marcus were linked by Genisis. And Harrison could be a “de-aged” April, but that seems the least likely possibility to me, if only because I am putting more faith in Orci than that.

423. Sybok's Secret Brother - February 23, 2013

SO – April had found The SS Botany Bay then? Found Khan? Used them somehow? Hmmm…

424. Adam - February 23, 2013

It’s virtually impossible to discern what will or will not happen in the ‘Abrams-verse’ as even if we are right no-one will ever tell us until the movie comes out and we see for ourself in May so let’s deal with what we do know. bob himself stated that April was deeply effected by Nero’s temporal incursion, what do we know about that? Well we know that the Kelvin, on route to Earth with a heavily pregnant Wynona Kirk and her husband George but was re-routed to the Nuetral Zone to investigate the “lightening storm in space.” We know that Robau was invited onboard the Narada where he was subsequently killed and that he made George Kirk captain and he oversaw the successful evacuation of over 800 lives in 12 minutes before he sacrificed himself and the Kelvin to give his crew a chance and that his son James Tiberius Kirk was born on medical shuttle 37.

Now, in the Prime universe, George Kirk would go on to become April’s ExO when he took command of the brand new Enterprise (NCC-1701) after its completion in 2245 and that he would live to see his son James take command in 2264. Now what the comic has so far established is that this particular series of events begins at the very most 2 years after the events of the first movie so 2260 max, April disappeared some 20 years prior so we’re talking circa 2240. Assuming April was in charge of his Enterprise for 5 years prior to his disappearance his Enterprise at the earliest I’d say was launched 2235, 2 years after the Kelvin incident. So we could well be dealing with, and this now is pure speculation, a Kelvin era take on the original Constitution Class Enterprise under an excelerated time line in accordance to the perceived new Romulan threat, that’s not out of the question. This particular version of the Enterprise may well be classed ‘Experimental’ and so given the designation NX-1701 until its decommissioning in 2258 and the subsequent rushed maiden voyage of a revised Constitution designed Enterprise NCC-1701, again this is speculation at this point.

Back on point as I digress, April lost Kirk as his ExO and took on the Enterprise at most 10 years before he should have. He had to select a new ExO and he elected to take Alex Marcus who may or may not be connected to Dr Carol Marcus, if Alex was on the original Enterprise along with George and April in the Prime universe then it would explain how James and Carol may have met. Now the Shadows sounds like something out of Babylon 5 if I’m honest but there you go, I half expect this to take place on Za’ha’dum but there you go. Hence how he was heavily afflicted by the incursion. Interesting point, had April took control with the personnel he had in the Prime universe at the time he did, would he have encountered this planet after the conflict occurred and so never became entangled in it? We know George was an inspiration to Jim, was George April’s conscience to ensure the very highly charged and passionate April didn’t go against the Prime Directive? Is Marcus therefore an enabler in this case. There are questions and they may well be answered in later installments and it is fascinating for sure and explanations will be abound in issues to come. Mudd, Bajorin and female… This puzzles me as much as it intrigues me, yes the Bajorin’s had warp capability and were out exploring the stars while we were sailing the seas in the Prime Universe. Could this be Harry Mudds wife or could it be Harcourt himself with his voice and face disguised on the view screen so he’s not identified, he may be supplying both sides with weapons and so needs to separate identities. Now that is absolute speculation but with how cunning Harcourt Fenton Mudd is, not out of the realm of possibility.

425. crazydaystrom - February 23, 2013

422. Curious Cadet – February 23, 2013
“I wasn’t so much saying your statement was unqualified, but rather taking exception of your use of the possessive in your response as the qualified evidence: “With the evidence of Harrison having April’s gun”.

Sure, i probably should have qualified that “evidence” as “flimsy”.

“I don’t believe there is any evidence anywhere that the gun has ever been called “April’s gun”…”

Someone observed and pointed out a still or sketch from a video acompanying a story about the film’s production ( one on this site, I believe) that had the term ‘April’s Gattling Gun’ appended to it, hand written or otherwise. That’s where all that started. The accuracy of that I cannot swear to, having not seen it myself, so I COULD possibly be complicit in dissemination of mis-information. Apologies if that is indeed the case.

” yet people have been using this as evidence that Harrison is a de-aged April since the whole gun thing broke.”

I’m not one of those people.

” Upon re-reading your post, I’m not sure if you are making that assertion or just inadvertently parroting the misinformation that’s circling the web.”

As I said, not. And if misinformation, inadvertent indeed.

” So my appologies if I appeared too critical ”

No apology necessary, sir.

“— clearly there could be a link between April and Harrison,”

Clearly there COULD.

“Harrison could be a “de-aged” April, but that seems the least likely possibility to me, if only because I am putting more faith in Orci than that.”

As well, CC, as well.

426. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 23, 2013

The news media is at it again.
Now they are hyping up some meteors that flew over so-cal thurs morning.
trying to compare them to the russian one that hurt 1200.

Now do you see why I made the comments I made about Chris Dorner?
The media hypes everything to much

427. Ahmed - February 23, 2013

@426. Rose

I think that many of us already get the idea that the media tend to hypes issues from time to time. Or even create stories as Noam Chomsky pointed out in this documentary

Manufacturing Consent – Noam Chomsky and the Media

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AnB8MuQ6DU

Now, having said that, I think that you need to take a seat back & not to bring the discussion to the Chris Dorner story. Some people here were not happy with the way you handled that issue.

Lets move on & focus on Trek related issues, shall we ?

428. The Last Vulcan - February 23, 2013

423. Sybok’s Secret Brother – Yup, it’s all in post 345. Enjoy. :)

429. Ahmed - February 23, 2013

Captain April seem to have access to some sophisticated tech like the hologram, which was above what Starfleet has according to Spock.

I wonder if he got access to information taken from Nero’s ship.

430. crazydaystrom - February 23, 2013

Yeah Rose. Obviously you’re still stinging. And I don’t and won’t ‘have a dog in this fight’. But for goodness sakes try to let it go. For goodness sake, for the sakes of civility, wisdom and maturity…let it go. And that goes for all of you/us.

Peace!

431. Killamarshtrek - February 23, 2013

@425

“Someone observed and pointed out a still or sketch from a video acompanying a story about the film’s production ( one on this site, I believe) that had the term ‘April’s Gattling Gun’ appended to it, hand written or otherwise. That’s where all that started. The accuracy of that I cannot swear to, having not seen it myself, so I COULD possibly be complicit in dissemination of mis-information. Apologies if that is indeed the case.”

Hi, that would be me. I’m the one who was ‘lampooned’ for suggesting that Robert April would be in the movie (way before CTD comic) due to Drew McWeeny’s sighting of the ‘April Gattling Gun’ design and this set of sound files from a behind the scenes ‘webinar’.
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q689/Killamarshtrek/Soundlist2_zps9ffb3850.jpg

Now you can see it for yourself.

Isn’t it odd how the doubters are much quieter these days though!

432. MJ - February 23, 2013

Rose, how about doing yourself and everyone else a favor here and just get back to Star Trek and stop worrying about posting all of your current evernt and political and media commentary stuff here. Please, just give it a rest.

433. Curious Cadet - February 23, 2013

@431 Killamarshtrek,

I don’t know if you were exactly lampooned, but for my part I only want to clarify and point out alternatives.

And let’s face it — the April hypothesis is Drew McWeeny’s, not yours. And it’s based on his observation, and his alone. I have not seen this story about the sketchbook reported by anyone else of authority, and that includes this site’s host who was also there, nor has boborci commented on it. Further, the April-enthusiasts, seem to be the ones who decided it was “April’s” (possessive) gun, and therefore evidence that it belonged to Harrison and Harrison is a “de-aged” April — a massive specious leap in logic. Moreover, no one has actually seen this gun sketch McWeeny claims to have seen, so there’s no way to even know if it looks anything like the gun Harrison wields in the trailer. And that is the major issue I have been trying to temper. Yes there’s a sound file, but its absolutely meaningless to prove it has anything to do with Harrison, nor that April himself is in the movie.

If you recall, I have said all along that there was always a possibility of April being in the movie, but not a certainty based on the “evidence” to date, and most likely NOT Harrison, nor Weller. The sound file certainly can be taken as hard evidence of that, the ONLY evidence, but it may also simply be an homage of some sort, assuming we ever learn the gun is called that in the movie.

April is in the comic, his first officer is most likely Carol Marcus’ father, and Carol herself is a weapons designer in this universe. That connection alone explains a gun nicknamed “April”, whether it’s the same one Harrison uses or not. And now based on the comic we know it could be one April designed, or Carol designed based on one her dad told her April modified. And April could very easily die before this comic is finished, thus never appearing in the movie, much less being a story central to April’s character. From what I’ve seen so far, April appears to be a catalyst, NOT a primary character.

And you should feel free to extrapolate any ideas you want from the paucity of evidence we’ve been given about April, and the April gun. There’s certainly a lot more going for April being in the movie than Khan at this point, but assuming Harrison is April is just misguided. If April is in the movie he’s most likely going to be played by Nolan North (of the actors we know about) based on all the actual evidence we have. But trying to tie him to Harrison based on this phantom gun sketch as reported by one person alone is like the Khan CGI rumor that is now accepted as fact around the Internet based on a misidentified quote. While there may very well be a CGI Khan in the movie, there’s certainly no real evidence of it, and indeed I was actively involved in the thread where the idea was fabricated.

Obviously, something was leaked to McWeeny for him to propose any part of his convoluted theory, the fulcrum of which balances on the plot of the only episode in which April appears, based on a complete misunderstanding of the principle McGuffin of that story, which Orci would be an idiot to otherwise adapt for the principle identity of the film’s protagonist. But for now, all we can say for sure is that April figures into the story somehow, and he might make an appearance in the movie. And that’s all we’ve ever been able to discern since McWeeny first claimed to see a sketch of that gun.

434. DeShonn Steinblatt - February 23, 2013

Harrison is Khan.

435. Gary S - February 23, 2013

433. or the weapon in question is called “Aprils Gun”because a character named April uses it in the film.

436. Gary S - February 23, 2013

Say , do we have any info, even unverified, on Heather Langenkamps role ?

437. The Sinfonian - February 23, 2013

She’s playing some giantsized huged alien ‘visitor’ named Moto.

438. Curious Cadet - February 23, 2013

@431 Killamarshtrek MORE ^^433,

One thing I meant to mention, McWeeny is the only person to call the sketch “April’s Gatling Gun”. He tells us the crew allegedly calls it “The Big Gun”. Then the ONLY hard evidence turns up in the form of the sound file glimpsed in a ProTools session at Bad Robot, but instead of being labeled “April’s Gatling Gun”, its labeled “April Giant Gun”. In fact, as I have pointed out before, it doesn’t even look like “April” at all, but rather “Aanl” or “Aard”. So the sound file itself isn’t even solid evidence. But for the moment, assuming it is as it ties into April’s appearance in the comics …

It sure is odd that the only alleged peice of evidence does not corroborate any account of the possible name of the gun previously cited. In fact, since it is the ONLY actual evidence, flimsy though it may be, that there is a gun in the movie somehow connected to April (a character we at least know for sure is connected to the story now), the logical assumption is that McWeeny GOT IT WRONG, and the sketch book (provided there actually was one), was labeled “April Giant Gun”, NOT “Gatling”, and NOT “April’s”. In other words, McWeeny made the leap in his mind that “The Big Gun” reminded him of a Gatling gun and he saw a word with a G and substituted the words. Likewise, he made the assumption that April was a clue to the identity of Harrison and assumed it was possessive (“April’s”).

The evidence that he engaged in sloppy reporting is in his extrapolation of a theory by failing to do a modicum of research to confirm the details of his theory and instead incorrectly states the nature of the reverse aging in Counter Clock (mysterious illness), and claims the girl in the opening 9 minutes is aging prematurely (for which there is NO evidence at all), and that April can somehow reset body clocks because of the events of the Counter Clock episode (he can’t). Don’t you think it’s possible then this guy could get a few other details wrong?

Here’s something else. If McSweeny didn’t misquote the rest of his experiences at Bad Robot, and the crew really did call Harrison’s gun, “The Big Gun”, isn’t that kind of odd considering design sketches already labeled it “April Giant Gun”, and later sound files confirm that name too? At a minimum wouldn’t they call it the “The Giant Gun” (or “The Gatling Gun” assuming McWeeny didn’t get it wrong)? Perhaps McWeeny was wrong about what he saw in the sketchbook too, and the “Big Gun” was indeed Harrison’s gun, and the “April Giant Gun” is something else entirely. And at that point, perhaps there’s a third completely different “April’s Gatling Gun”! At which point this whole thing breaks down.

439. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 23, 2013

People -
The imposter(s) are back. If you, an imposter using my name, have something to say about the Chris Dorner business, then use another pseudonym. Do not use mine. You are being inflammatory in doing so.

For the record, on this thread, my posts are #78, #91, #92, #194, #392, #395 and #408 and of course, this post. The rest are not my posts.

I have let the issue that caused so much hurt and misunderstanding go. This imposter has not. He/she/they are NOT me,ie Rosemary, Keachick, Rose (as in Keachick), Keachick – rose pinenut from Auckland, NZ.

Anthony and/or other trekmovie staff should know this. Where is our moderator?

440. Phil - February 23, 2013

@439. 426 belngs on the list, too. I think….

441. Ahmed - February 23, 2013

@Rose, if the post #426 wasn’t you, then please accept my apology.

I just hope that when Anthony come back, he will finally take action to make sure that imposters are not allowed on this site.

442. Jason - February 23, 2013

438, I have known Drew (personally) for a number of years now, he doesn’t resort to sloppy reporting or jumping to conclusions.
Thats a big part of the reason he left Aintitcool, because he is above that.

Fact is Drew was one of the people who were on hand for the bad robot visit, and he is just the only one smart enough to have picked up on the aprils gatling gun note on the open book. Don’t forget it was Drew who straight up asked JJ if latinoreviews report that Benico was playing Khan, and JJ told him no.
Trust me Drew does the leg work he puts in the man hours, there is a reason why so many studios out here in Hollywood ask him to moderate special Q&A screenings of new releases.
If you have ever attended a Q&A he has moderated you will know what I am talking about.

On a side note Rose enough with the non trek related B.S. this site is called Trekmovie.com not Trollmovie.com, if you want to troll with your comments and latter try to say oh thats not me go else where to do it, I am sure they have a fan website for the movie troll 2 and your comments would fit perfectly over there.

443. Historian_Levi - February 23, 2013

A bit off topic, but still Trek related.
Has anyone else given the new La La Land Star Trek DS9 20th anniversary 4 CD set a listen?

La La Land knocked it out of the park again, such a great collection score music from all 7 seasons, well worth the money for Trek music score afficiandos.

The jazz piano renditon of the main theme (Main Title for Piano after 3am) has to be my favorite track on the entire set.

444. Historian_Levi - February 23, 2013

A bit off topic, but still Trek related.
Has anyone else given the new La La Land Star Trek DS9 20th anniversary 4 CD set a listen?

La La Land knocked it out of the park again, such a great collection score music from all 7 seasons, well worth the money for Trek music score afficiandos.

The jazz piano renditon of the main theme (Main Title for Piano after 3am) has to be my favorite track on the entire set.

445. MJ - February 23, 2013

@438 What’s the more likely explanation, that it probably is Aprils gun based on some evidence saying it is so, or that the four paragraphs of a fan here (you) trying to come up with complex series of questionable at best explanations that it is not his gun?

Occam’s Razor, my friend.

It’s probably April’s gun. If it wasn’t his gun, you wouldn’t have to offer so many convoluted and lengthy details to try prove it wasn’t.

446. Curious Cadet - February 23, 2013

@445 MJ,

Show me the evidence.

More importantly, you are admitting then by accepting that the gun Harrison wields is April’s gun, and therefore he is April, that Harrison has nothing to do with Khan, or a Khan-centric character.

Thanks for admitting you were wrong about Khan. That’s very big of you. ;-)

447. Historian_Levi - February 23, 2013

Curous Cadet,
I dont think he is admitting anything, he is saying that odds are its Aprils gun.
the comics pretty much show that April plays a role in the events of Into Darkness.
No matter who is playing April, or who is in cahoots with him.

448. Historian_Levi - February 23, 2013

Ouch sorry for the horrendous grammatical errors in my post 447. lol
Hopefully my point comes across still :)

449. MJ - February 23, 2013

@446. Dude, you are the one who is saying you don’t believe the evidence that McWeeny used the term “April’s Gatling Gun.” That’s evidence. So it is up to you to refute this or provide other evidence. So far, you have provided none outside some conjecture.

The McWeeny thing ain’t perfect, but it is legitimate limited evidence, whereas you provide just conjecture as to why we should not trust it.

So you need to provide some real evidence beyond conjecture here that really supports your view?

450. MJ - February 23, 2013

“I dont think he is admitting anything, he is saying that odds are its Aprils gun. the comics pretty much show that April plays a role in the events of Into Darkness. No matter who is playing April, or who is in cahoots with him.”

Exactly. I am ONLY talking about the gun here.

451. Curious Cadet - February 23, 2013

@449 MJ,

Sorry. Multiple sources reporting something as major as a sketchbook showing a drawing of the very gun Harrison wields in the trailer clearly labeled “April’s Gatling Gun” is evidence. The fact McWeeny is the ONLY person to report this “evidence” which does not jibe with the ONLY physical evidence widely reported (the sound file), from an event otherwise well attended by Star Trek journalists, is enough for me to discredit his so-called evidence. Especially when he then presents a theory based on this “evidence” that gets the supporting details and facts wrong. Even AP didn’t bother to mention this sketchbook. If it isn’t reported by AP on this site, there is generally no validity to it. It’s uncorroborated heresay. All I need.

And I’m ONLY talking about the gun here too. McWeeny’s “evidence” is that the gun Harrison uses is clearly labeled “April’s Gatling Gun” (despite nobody else in the Trek universe thought it noteworthy to report), and therefore since Harrison uses the gun, a subject McWeeny claims was of much discussion by the producers (which again was reported by no one else), then Harrison must be April. Then ipso facto, if you think McWeeny’s “evidence” is valid, then you must accept Harrison is April, or propose another theory based on evidence.

452. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 24, 2013

#426 was not mine either. Post #439 is mine – this was the post where I gave the list of posts that were not mine.

I don’t know what is going on here. As I said, if this person wants to comment, then this individual should find another name and not use my name or anybody else’s.

453. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 24, 2013

Sorry – I meant post #441 is mine. This is the post giving the list of which posts are mine. Gosh, I am getting sick of this…

454. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 24, 2013

…Wait…is post #441 mine? I’m not sure….God I can’t remember. I rant on so many sites I can’t keep track of it all. No wait, #441 isn’t mine but #426 IS mine. Sorry. You uneducated Americans are driving me crazy. Go read a book or something, I don’t need this.

455. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 24, 2013

#454 is not my post. This is more trolling from an imposter.

456. Killamarshtrek - February 24, 2013

Let me ask you this ‘Curious’. If you had to name a sound file of a gun, & you needed to distinguish it from all the other ‘gun sounds’, wouldn’t you just choose the simplest option and name it after the character that uses it?

457. Theatre Historian_Levi - February 24, 2013

Hi everyone, I don’t think I have ever properly introduced myself on here but I am Levi, in any case.
I just wanted to say I am adding Theatre on to my screen name as I thought it would be best as to indicate what type of historian I am .

If any of you ever visit hollywood, let me know i would be very happy to give you a tour of theChinese (which by the way has hosted the L.A. premieres of a number of Trek movies including Trek 09, First Contact, as well as the west coast premiere of ST TMP.) and is the theatre I have been the historian/ theatre announcer for since 2002)

458. crazydaystrom - February 24, 2013

Hi Rose -
If ever I responded to “you” thinking it was the actual Rose and if it was ever even vaguely critical of you (and I don’t believe I ever was), APOLOGIES TO YOU. Mine were only pleas for Peace.

Regards

459. Curious Cadet - February 24, 2013

@456 Killamarshtrek,

Occam’s razor is used to choose between theories that have already been vetted, and which are equally well-supported by the evidence. Therefore, the simplest explanation is not always the best.

I name files on my computer for all kinds of reasons. Photos in particular are sometimes named for the people in them, but sometimes for the place it was taken, or sometimes the activity. There is no rhyme or reason that can be uniformly applied. My point is, we don’t know what the sound editor was thinking when they named the file. Normally I might readily agree with you, but in the case of Bad Robot, the fact everything is done in one location means the sound editors have access to the same sketchbook McWeeny allegedly saw, and have been around for planning and meetings since day one. If the soundfile said “April’s Gatling Gun”, then we’d have no problems right? It would corroborate McSweeny’s story and support your assertion. But the fact it seems to read: “April Giant Gun” directly contradicts McSweeny, and suggests another possible origin for the name: that the gun has been called the “April” gun since the day it was designed, for which any number of explanations, as I have liberally postulated, are possible. Let me put it another way, if April stirred his tea with a spoon, would the soundfile be labeled “teaspoon” or “April’s spoon”?

People love to trot out Occam’s razor around here to prove all sorts of things. So you want simple: Why does McWeeny’s reported name for the gun disagree with the soundfile name? Simple: He got it wrong. Since NO ONE else reported it, and we all have seen the “official” soundfile, the simplest explanation is he got it wrong (just like he got other facts wrong in his report). His “evidence” is dodgy, which is one of the fundamental tests for the application of Occam’s razor. So, which is simpler, that the sound editor named the soundfile for a specific gun after the character that uses it, or after the name the producer’s have been calling it since the film was in development?

Wait, don’t answer that last one yet as its clearly subjective, just like the soundfile name. Let me qualify: if the soundfile is named for the character that uses it, then what happens if multiple characters use it? If only one character, then that character is Harrison as McWeeny claims it’s the exact same gun from the trailer labeled in the sketch. In which case Harrison is April. So which is the simplest answer: that Harrison is a “de-aged” April passing himself off as another Starfleet officer in an organization where he would be instantly recognizable, or Harrison is Harrison? Now, which is simpler, that Harrison is using a gun nicknamed “April” which others may use as well (including possibly April), or that Harrison is April and the only person who uses the gun? And what’s the simplest answer for the sound editor not naming the file “APRIL’S Giant Gun”? Because it’s NOT named for the character that uses it.

The razor cuts both ways without vetted facts. And we don’t have them. It seems like I’m being accused of saying I KNOW for a fact these things. I would NEVER be so arrogant. I’ve never said you, or anybody else is wrong, but only that there are other, potentially more plausible, explanations for some of the clues we are seeing. In the case of April and this gun, there are many other interpretations of what we think we know. And it’s your and McWeeny’s primary thesis derived from this one clue — that Harrison is April — which I think is the least likely explanation.

460. Gary S - February 24, 2013

Countdown To Darkness#4 cant get here soon enough .
That will answer all of our questions .

461. Gary S - February 24, 2013

What If The Captain April in the minseries is an Imposer?
A Talosian ?

462. Gary S - February 24, 2013

Imposter!
Darn typos .
Could be a shapeshifter too.
Which puts Garth back in the mix .
I am just not giving up on other possibilities just yet.
It is more fun that way .
Anybody else have any out of the box theories ?

463. Red Dead Ryan - February 24, 2013

Keachick, can you please stop fooling around? We know its you impersonating yourself.

Guys, if you remember, a while back Keachick admitted to impersonating Harry Ballz on this site.

And she still hasn’t offered any apologies for her Chris Dorner comments.

She has also played the victim card in all of this, and the best way for her to get sympathy is to impersonate herself, forcing the rest of us to overlook her previous comments by falling into the trap set up by her.

Nice try, Keachick, but I’m not taking the bait.

464. Trek Fan - February 24, 2013

I see the trio of bullies are still at it. Such a shame that no matter what they say is gold and that they shoot down everyone else”s theories. They feel they are the only ones that have a valid theory even though there is no hard evidence to THEIR theories. Just speculation like everyone else”s. So why should their theories and speculation be the end all and be all and everyone else is dismissed? How arrogant!

465. Aurore - February 24, 2013

“Anybody else have any out of the box theories ?”
________

On the thread where Mr. Orci stated that the character would be canon, a fellow fan noted that this did not necessarily imply the villain would be from The Original Series.

He thought the character could be any character… from any Star Trek series… at any rate, that is how I understood his comment.

466. Gary S - February 24, 2013

465. that certainly opens the possibilities .
I have wondered if the villain uses the code Name “Khan”but is actually another Canon character , take your pick as to who that might be .

467. Michael - February 24, 2013

It is true that Benecio Del Toro is not playing Khan.

468. Aurore - February 24, 2013

“…. take your pick as to who that might be .”
______

No Khan do.
I never watched any* of the other Star Trek series.

:)

* I watched a TNG episode, ages ago. Not in its entirety, though.

469. Adolescent Nightmare - February 24, 2013

They should get Benedict to do the voices for a Khan vs. Smaug motion comic.

470. MJ - February 24, 2013

@459. See, you have to right these huge long-winded explanations that try to refute the April Gun evidence, whereas Killamarshtrek and I just point to the simplest bit of direct evidence that shows is is probably a gun that has some relation to April. That is a textbook case of Occam’s razor, my friend.

And please stop confusing the issue of who Harrison is in regards to the gun. This is simply just a labeling in the gun, and when we see the movie we will know what history or relation the gun has to April. Maybe April was Harrison’s protege…who knows at this point?

471. Curious Cadet - February 24, 2013

@465 Aurore,

That is more or less correct. The way the question was phrased, Orci’s answer of “canon” literally means “original Star Trek canon”.

However, whether that includes, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, TAS, et al, is strictly up to individual interpretation. Presumably as you and I have discussed previously, AP means “original” vs. “alternate reality” canon (i.e. no characters created for ST09 like capt. Robau), which opens the field up to everything else seen onscreen. But, he could have just as easily meant, just the original 1960s TV episodes, or just the pre-First Contact stories that feature Kirk, Spock & McCoy (with or without TAS). And as you have lobbied, all the filmed material including the last film and even the current film. Without clarification, we’re all just kind of still guessing. The fact we have a Bajoran in the comic does suggest that we’re at least looking at all filmed Trek at least up to ST09.

I’m personally hoping for an outside of the box story. Harrison is interesting enough without also making him a significant canon character with an already notable history too, like Khan. All the major antagonists from Trek canon run the risk of character-overload. Even April comes to the table with a significant identity already. A Botany Bay survivor could be interesting, but they too come to the table with a sizable back-story that has to be reconciled on top of everything else.

What I’d like to see is something obscure like Finnegan from Shore Leave (who is obviously not a contender particularly since Kirk knows him so well). The general audience won’t care about the canon connection, but something like a “Finnegan” would resonate with the core fans, especially if it is more than just a re-used name like Delta Vega, but a real connection with the character as dipicted previously. I don’t really know the canon well enough to sort through all the possible minor character connections, but that to me is a much more interesting exercise than the constant peacocking over the blatantly obvious possibilities spoon-fed to us by the producers of Khan, Mitchell, and now April.

We know Harrison is from canon, but with Carol Marcus, and the potential for other cameo characters like April, Mudd, Daystrom, and new canon-based characters like Alex Marcus, that’s even more reason to downplay the Harrison connection to a major canon figure. Indeed, there might be such a thing as too much canon!

472. Red Shirt Diaries - February 24, 2013

All, clearly the obvious reason as to why we have not heard anyone else mention the “April Gun” is because McSweeny screwed up in letting this one piece of info go public, where no one else did. It’s so simple to explain -this was not suppose to be made public. So of course this is the only instance it is mentioned.

473. MJ - February 24, 2013

@472 “All, clearly the obvious reason as to why we have not heard anyone else mention the “April Gun” is because McSweeny screwed up in letting this one piece of info go public, where no one else did. It’s so simple to explain -this was not suppose to be made public. So of course this is the only instance it is mentioned.”

Yep, Occam’s Razor applied again here I would say. Especially when you consider JJ’s huge focus on secrecy. Makes sense!

474. Curious Cadet - February 24, 2013

@470 MJ,
“you have to right these huge long-winded explanations that try to refute the April Gun evidence, whereas Killamarshtrek and I just point to the simplest bit of direct evidence that shows is is probably a gun that has some relation to April.”

I WRITE “these huge long-winded explanations” to avoid further confusion, which appears to be wasted on you. But I am in total agreement with the summary of what you just stated above. However, you are now hedging your original statement @445 that “It’s probably April’s gun”.

There’s a big difference in “is probably a gun that has some relation to April.” and “it’s probably April’s gun”. This is similar to your waffling on it will definitely be Khan, to it will definitely be Khan-centric. The distinction is important to the conversation I have been having with Killamarshtrek, particularly since that little apostrophe “s” is the difference between the gun belonging to April himself, and a gun having “some relation” to April. The point of which is to tie the gun Harrison uses to ownership by April, thus identifying Harrison as April. Harrison’s identity is inseparable from the labeling of the gun — in this case. So do me a favor and stop telling me what I mean.

You want to make the argument that the gun probably has something to do with April — well no duh! Of course it does. I’m in full agreement there. See: simple.

475. Red Dead Ryan - February 24, 2013

Guys, it doesn’t really matter if the gun belongs to April personally, or if it merely came from his inventory. At this point, with so little info, it is just splitting hairs about nothing.

What we do know is Captain April will most likely be in the movie. We don’t know who is playing him, how he fits in with Benedict Cumberbatch’s character, or how he drives the story.

476. Peter Loader - February 24, 2013

Weller and Cumberbatch are April.

477. Peter Loader - February 24, 2013

As for Mudd. He did love to wear a large dangling earring, so a Bajoran is not a stretch. Female? Nice twist.

478. MJ - February 24, 2013

@474, As your argument is weakening on the April Gun topic, you keep bringing up my Khan prediction. That is a separate topic. If you want to belittle my Khan prediction, have at it, but that has no relation to the April Gun topic.

479. Michael Braswell - February 24, 2013

Wow. There is a lot of different point of views here. I went back and re-read issue two and I want to clarify a few things:

1. Pikes Enterprise HAD to be built and launched PRIOR to 2233. For the simple fact that 20 years had passed since Pike was last seen (2238-2258). Pikes Enterprise went on for another 18 years (decommissioned in 2256) and the new Pike/Kirk Enterprise was built in Iowa and launched in 2258. Simple logic suggests that Alex Marcus was given command of Aprils’s Enterprise (and we have to assume that Alex Marcus has something to do with the new movie and Peter Weller may be Carol Marcus father). Alice Eve’s character is seen wearing science blue. Also, Pikes tech is far above standard Starfleet tech (holographic tech that looks on par with what is seen on TNG.)

2. Pike had took command of the Enterprise in 2228? He said he was captain for 10 years. Does that mean he was captain of the Enterprise or did he become captain after the ship was launched? I am going to assume that he was the captain at the launch in 2228. So doing the math Pike’s Enterprise was 28 years old when she was decommissioned. Now was his ship registry NCC-1701? I am going to say no because like all ships named Enterprise they each had their own registry number. Also, in the prime universe the Enterprise did not get famous until AFTER Kirk’s 5 year mission was complete. In the Alt universe Kirk’s Enterprise is just starting her mission.

3. What do we know about the plot to Trek 2.0? Well it seems Eugenics does play a role and Carol Marcus is involved along with Peter Weller’s character as a CEO of a business? What do most military people do after they retire? They usually go and join a business they have a passion for and serve on the board of directors. Also, who would say no to a former captain of a Starfleet ship named Enterprise? Hmmmm…the mind wonders doesn’t it?

4. One last thing: the ship crashing in the trailer looks A LOT like Pike’s Enterprise. What better way to get Kirk and company to come back to earth? Terrorist attack on a former ship called Enterprise. :)

480. Ello - February 24, 2013

@479 No evidence whatsoever that Eugenics plays a role.

481. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 24, 2013

I have posted here which are my posts. The rest are not.

482. Curious Cadet - February 24, 2013

@472. Red Shirt Diaries,
“It’s so simple to explain -this was not suppose to be made public. So of course this is the only instance it is mentioned.”

Personally I would go with Abrams fed McWeeny the information to release. I’ve acknowledged McWeeny saw something related to April in order to come up with his convoluted hypothesis at all. But sure. He got an exclusive intentionally or otherwise.

As long as you are providing simple explanations for things, how do you explain that McWeeny said the gun was labeled “April’s Gatling Gun” (which plays totally into his theory) when the only tangible evidence that has appeared fails to corroborate his account (and works against his theory)?

And again, with respect to your 475, possession DOES matter with regards to discussing the Harrison is April theory. That’s what the whole theory hinges on! You are correct we know so little, but I’m saying what we do know about this clue discounts this particular theory.

483. Curious Cadet - February 24, 2013

@482 ^^^

Oops, sorry.

My response to 475 was meant for Red Dead Ryan, not Red Shirt Diaries.

484. Gary S - February 24, 2013

Any Trek alums nominated for any Oscars tonight?
And what about the possibilty of a TV Spot during the telecast?

485. Aurore - February 24, 2013

“I watched a TNG episode, ages ago. Not in its entirety, though.”
____

Well…you only missed the opening title sequence, as far as I remember.

:)

486. Androide - February 24, 2013

I’m wondering about the computer’s voice of Star Trek Into Darkness. When are we getting the information, who the successor of Majel Barrett will be?

487. Ello - February 24, 2013

@486 After JJ signed onto direct Star Wars, the computer’s voice was redubbed by James Earl Jones.

488. Aurore - February 24, 2013

“… Without clarification, we’re all just kind of still guessing.”
______

Indeed.
I like that.

“The fact we have a Bajoran in the comic does suggest that we’re at least looking at all filmed Trek at least up to ST09.”

I had to google “Bajoran”, at some point.
When I first saw “Mudd”, I thought she was human.

489. Gary S - February 24, 2013

486. my guess is Leonard Nimoy.

490. Ahmed - February 24, 2013

@ 488. Aurore – February 24, 2013

“I had to google “Bajoran”, at some point.”

Are you serious ? You never watched any of the DS9 episodes or the TNG episode “Ensign Ro” ?

491. Killamarshtrek - February 24, 2013

Why are we bogged down with massive long winded explanations about ‘occum’s razor’ and whether it’s a gattling gun or big gun? The pertinent part of this evidence is the ‘April’ bit.

When Drew McWeeny first came up with the theory based on what he saw it was very ‘left field’ if not totally crazy, I’m sure we all thought that. When I first saw the sound file I thought ‘I for one do not believe in coincidences’, there has to be something in this. Now we have Robert April in CTD, with this number of coincidences we surely now can’t deny April takes some part in this movie!

The only question we’re left with is what part does he play in the movie. I’m gonna nail my colours to the mast & say I think he is most likely to be Harrison. Why? Because everything we’ve learned about his character so far fits with what we’ve learned from interviews etc about Harrison. He’s sacrificed everything to stop the genocide of a race of people he cares passionately about and broken the ‘Prime Directive’ to do so (a cause we WOULD feel sympathy for and the Prime directive being an already established theme in the film). We know he’s had inside help from Alex Marcus (probably Carol’s dad – Peter Weller). What if Starfleet in the shape of Kirk & crew invoke the prime directive & stop him resulting in the genocide of ‘his people’? He’s gonna be fairly hacked off!

April is even the right nationality for god’s sake! The only thing counting against him is he’s 30 years too old (normally a deal breaker but this is Sci-Fi) & he isn’t Khan. Well we know he’s being supplied weapons to protect ‘his people’. What if he finds out from his ‘inside man’ about a secret (Section 31?) project to make men into weapons using Augmentation technology recently discovered on an old earth ‘Sleeper Ship’ which at the same time ‘rejuvinates’ (or dare I say regenerates) the body?

Yes, there are a few ‘what ifs’ in there but they seem to fit all the information to hand so far. Bet I’m not far off!

492. Curious Cadet - February 24, 2013

@488. Aurore,
“When I first saw “Mudd”, I thought she was human.”

That’s pretty much the case with most Star Trek aliens, isn’t it? An unfortunate byproduct of producing such an ambitious show in the 60s and for television in general.

What a breath of fresh air when they gave the Klingons ridges. With all due respect to the fans, that’s one of the most ridiculous canon debates ever undertaken. They improved the look of the Klingons to make them more interesting looking when the budget permitted — suspend your disbelief and just accept they all look the same even though they don’t.

493. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - February 24, 2013

@488 & @490

… or the early Voyager episodes featuring the (fake) Bajoran Seska?

Sorry – I’m just showing off.

494. dmduncan - February 24, 2013

“You want my gun, Harrison?” April seethed, the color of an Irishman who’d been slapped in the face hard six or seven times. He raised the gatling gun and pointed it at Harrison’s head, the stupid smirk on it making April even angrier.

“You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold dead—”

Harrison quickly fired a 40OK watt burst from his gamma ray pistol, instantly turning all the soft tissue in April’s body to charred black ash. All that was left was a skeleton in a pose, wearing an old starfleet uniform, it’s jaw frozen open in the middle of an unfinished sentence.

Harrison yanked the gun from April’s skeletal hands sending boney pieces falling. Harrison looked from the pile of blackened digits on the floor to the dark holes in April’s skull, and smirked again.

“Fingers,” he said.

495. Aurore - February 24, 2013

“Are you serious ? You never watched any of the DS9 episodes or the TNG episode ‘Ensign Ro’ ?”
______

The reason why I said that I had never watched any other Star Trek series is because…. I never did.

….Except for the TNG episode I mentioned earlier.

496. dmduncan - February 24, 2013

495

Commendations! You were busy having a life.

497. Red Dead Ryan - February 24, 2013

#490.

Whoopdee friggin’ do, dipshit. Aurore isn’t a fan of TNG, so she obviously wouldn’t give a damn about the Bajorans.

Sheesh!

498. Curious Cadet - February 24, 2013

Shatner just made an appearance on the Oscars, dressed as Kirk, claiming he just came back in time to stop Seth McFarlane from destroying the Oscars …

499. Aurore - February 24, 2013

@496. dmduncan – February 24, 2013

Interestingly, my interest in the Star Trek franchise was renewed thanks, amongst other people, to a Star Wars fan ( I never cared for that franchise ), and also, to a TNG fan who, from what I understand, seemed/seems to find something to like in every iteration of Star Trek.

Fascinating….

:)

500. Curious Cadet - February 24, 2013

Figures macfarlane would do a bit featuring Star Trek at the Academy awards. VERY FUNNY STUFF! But Kirk’s uniform needed some serious cleaning. Kirk has some serious ring-around-the-collar …

@484, so Gary S, I guess there’s your “spot”!

501. Michael Braswell - February 24, 2013

One other thing I was thinking about is WHAT IF its Pike’s Enterprise that finds the Botany Bay? I have a feeling that the carpet is about to be pulled out from under us and the whole Khan rumors will be true and false at the same time. Damn JJ Abrams is making this fun! We have THREE months until the new movie and we STILL do not know who is the bad guy is.

502. crazydaystrom - February 24, 2013

Yeah Shat was great as Kirk advising Seth McFarlane with tips from the 23rd century on how to not screw up the Oscars. Played for laughs of course. Funny stuff.

503. Curious Cadet - February 24, 2013

Chris Pine and Zoe Saldana (future Priceline spokespersons) introduced the scientific achievements. Their walk-on music was the TMP/TNG theme for some reason.

504. Red Dead Ryan - February 24, 2013

#503.

Yeah, that was a massive fail. Why couldn’t they have played “Enterprising Young Men” or the TOS theme instead?

505. Jefferies Tuber - February 24, 2013

Awesome set gossip: seems the crew were nowhere near as starry-eyed for JJ as the publicists directed the cast to suggest. The widely held feeling among the crew that the editors made ST09 great was deemed ‘confirmed’ on the INTO DARKNESS set. Basically, he asks for the same shots over and over, then does 100 takes. Drives everyone crazy. The cast is a family, as they suggest, except for Zoe. Source also says the film is a true epic.

506. Trek Fan - February 24, 2013

504. Red Dead Ryan

Really. Big deal! Dude, it’s the music that most people connect to Trek. If they played the music from 09, people wouldn’t make the connection. And the TOS music was from the TV serious. The music they played was from movie Trek. NOT A BIG DEAL.

507. crazydaystrom - February 24, 2013

505. Jefferies Tuber

Source?

508. Red Dead Ryan - February 24, 2013

#506.

Look, the TMP/TNG theme has nothing to do with the alt-universe characters. The TOS theme was played during the end credits of the last movie, and of course, “Enterprising Young Men” was the main theme, Einstein.

This would be like having the “Goldfinger” title song being played as Daniel Craig presented an award. It makes no sense.

509. MJ - February 24, 2013

I completely agree with Red Dead Ryan. What the hell were they thinking playing TNG music for Pine and Zaldana? I am embarassed for the Academy. A major fail.

PS: Wow, the first lady looked incredible tonight.

510. Phil - February 24, 2013

Yeah, not running Enterprising Young Men was a brain fart. Made no sense…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu0QO1za64E

511. Red Dead Ryan - February 24, 2013

#509.

Yeah, Michelle Obama did look stunning, as usual. Perhaps the most beautiful First Lady ever.

512. MJ - February 24, 2013

It is pretty cool that with all the SW talk, Trek owned the Oscars.

513. Trek Fan - February 24, 2013

508. Red Dead Ryan

Just when I thought you couldn’t mak any less sense. Dude, Goldfinger with Daniel-Day Lewis is like comparing apples and oranges.

They played TMP theme… with Trek actors. TMP theme is the movie era theme… ran through most of the movies. TMP theme is Trek. Wow, You will argue just about anything won’t you? There is an instant connection between that theme and Trek MOVIES. If it was the Emmy’s… then the TOS theme would be fitting. Other than Trek fans, who would recognize Enterprising Your Men as Trek? Exactly.

And MJ agreeing with Ryan? WOW there is a huge surprise! LoL

514. Asaraiel - February 24, 2013

Guys, this isn’t that complicated. In all the produced hours of STAR TREK, how many other times have we seen ships with letters? Just the Big E. Because she’s legendary. The second DEFIANT gets no letter. I find it hard to believe that VOYAGER was the first ship named as such, considering NASA’s probe.

There’s just some other ship named ENTERPRISE between the NX-01 and the Nu-1701. It need not be any more complicated. Seriously. It even works in the Prime timeline.

515. Red Dead Ryan - February 24, 2013

#513.

Hey genius, if you’re going to counter my argument, make sure you read what I wrote first.

I said it wouldn’t have made sense if they played the “Goldfinger” theme had Daniel Craig been a presenter.

The TOS theme was played at the end of the last “Star Trek” movie. So your argument that it doesn’t gel with the movies goes out the window.

The TOS theme is now part of the movies. I’m sure it will be reprised for the sequel.

The TMP/TNG theme, as great as it is, doesn’t represent the CURRENT incarnation that the TOS version does.

“Enterprising Young Men” still could have worked, as people would have associated it with Star Trek anyways.

516. K-7 - February 24, 2013

Yea. it should have been Enterprising Young Men. And they should have opened with Chris Pine instead of William Shatner in the skit with McF.

517. Red Dead Ryan - February 24, 2013

#516.

I didn’t mind seeing Shatner there. But it would have been even better with Pine sharing the screen as well. Two Kirks talking down to Seth McFarlane would have been priceless.

518. Herb Finn - February 24, 2013

April’s Enterprise before the current Enterprise could have had Chris Pike Commanding and Cadet/Lt.Spock as Science Officer… THE CAGE still happened!

519. J - February 25, 2013

Regarding “Enteprising young men” vs TNG/TMP:

The TNG/TMP is *the* Star Trek theme that half of the planet will recognize. Do a test on a random group of people. I bet 1 out of 10 will associate “EYM” with Trek. Yes, I know that “EYM” is the new Trek, but it will need more than one movie to be regarded as such.

520. Red Dead Ryan - February 25, 2013

#519.

The TOS theme is also recognized worldwide.

521. Doug - February 25, 2013

Is it planned that Robert April looks like Anthony Hopkins?

522. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 25, 2013

#501 – Yes, we do. The bad guy is John Harrison, a disgruntled/angry? Starfleet officer gone rogue. John Harrison is very intelligent, has superior physical strength and appears to have access to weapons of mass destruction. It is likely he is working with others, but that has not been confirmed. If he is working with others, we do not know who these people are. We do not yet know what his “cause” is.

No doubt, come 17 May, all will be revealed.

523. J - February 25, 2013

@520. Agreed, but I’d put my money on TNG/TMP as being more recognizable. Also, it’s more powerful and majestic.

524. Edshrinker - February 25, 2013

Two Kirks talking to Seth would have been “Priceline”.

Couldn’t resist.

525. Spock's Uncle - February 25, 2013

Cumberbatch/Harrison is NOT Khan. Unequivocally. Not. Khan.

April looks more like Liam Neeson than Anthony Hopkins….

526. Theatre Historian_Levi - February 25, 2013

Goldsmiths TMP score (including its theme) was nominated for an Oscar, Trek 09′s score wasn’t
They went with the previously academy recognized Trek Theme.

Having said that Giacchino did a great job with his trek score, and I look forward to his into darkness score.

527. Theatre Historian_Levi - February 25, 2013

520 I agree that Courages theme is and I suspect that will also be the main theme come time for into darkness as well.

I kind of look at its use in Trek 09 being handled in the way that David Arnold really held off on the bond main theme till the end of casino royale when Bond really came into his own in the film.

I really don’t look at Enterprising Young men as being this crews main Iconic theme.

But that is just my opinon. :)

528. Dustin - February 25, 2013

Sorry if this idea has been floated already, but have not read all 500 some posts here.

Had an idea for the plot of the movie with clues we already have. (possible spoilers)

1. In the 9 min preview before the Hobbit we see a scene where a little girl was sick and no one could do anything for her. The bad guy comes to the starfleet dad and says he can save his child. And this means the dad has to turn against starfleet in return.

Much has been brought up about Augments Khan. But not much has been said about the laws set up after Khan and it was shown in Enterprise and DS9. The law is that no one for any reason can do any tinkering with human dna. Maybe there was a way to cure the daughter but the dna law forbid it. Thus Starfleet wouldnt allow the daughter to be cured. Also its shown on DS9 that when he was a kid Bashier was a special kid and his parents had him “fixed” by altering his dna and his dad had to go to prison later for it.

So if there is a lot of people sick that can be cured with dna things but the law wont allow it, that might piss people off to go against Starfleet?

2. About the main plot. And how April and his story is to the movie. In the story outline there is a mention that starfleet is attacked and then we see the Enterprise 1701 badly damaged.

The main outline also says Kirk goes on his own to stop Harisson.

What if…

Kirks 1701 is very badly damaged and out of action. Thus Kirk and crew do a star trek 3 and “steal” Aprils decomisioned Enterprise to go after Harisson?

529. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 25, 2013

What about gene therapy as it is called today? Would that be the same thing as tinkering with DNA or not? Perhaps the tinkering with human DNA is what the designer baby stuff is about…

My husband has a health condition where there are only palliative treatment available, ie pain management via a form of morphine. Medical scientists have actually identified the gene that causes these problems in a small percentage of the population but as yet don’t know want to do to correct the problem.

530. Aurore - February 26, 2013

“but a real connection with the character as dipicted previously. I don’t really know the canon well enough to sort through all the possible minor character connections, but that to me is a much more interesting exercise than the constant peacocking over the blatantly obvious possibilities spoon-fed to us by the producers of Khan, Mitchell, and now April.”
________

“…One of the themes of the movie which is how far are you willing to go to protect those that you love…”

“….There’s a kind of shared story between Chris Pine’s character and Benedict Cumberbatch’s character….and part of the fun of seeing this movie…play out… is…you know…watching that tension between the two of them…”*

The “shared story” comment does not necessarily involve a minor (“canon”) character connection, in my opinion.

I thought “it”, the comment, could also refer to a shared experience in the sense that they might have gone through similar (childhood) events.
Perhaps, something only the audience would be aware of, at least at some point in the story.

And/Or, maybe we’ll learn something about Kirk we did not know, so far, for instance.

It seems to me that some fellow fans expect surprises…”revelations”.
I certainly do.

*
http://watch.accesshollywood.com/video/j.j.-abrams-discusses-his-vision-for-star-trek-into-darkness/2036323650001

531. MJ - February 26, 2013

@513 “They played TMP theme… with Trek actors. TMP theme is the movie era theme… ran through most of the movies. TMP theme is Trek. Wow, You will argue just about anything won’t you? There is an instant connection between that theme and Trek MOVIES. If it was the Emmy’s… then the TOS theme would be fitting. Other than Trek fans, who would recognize Enterprising Your Men as Trek? Exactly.”

Nope, that musical theme is much more associated with TNG that the entire series of Trek movies. Sorry, you are just plain wrong here.

And Trek Fan agreeing with J? WOW there is a huge surprise! LOL

532. Killamarshtrek - February 26, 2013

530. Aurore

“…One of the themes of the movie which is how far are you willing to go to protect those that you love…”

“….There’s a kind of shared story between Chris Pine’s character and Benedict Cumberbatch’s character”

Robert April has sacrificed everything to protect a race of people he loves for 20 years despite the prime directive and Kirk is about to try and stop him!

533. rogerachong - February 26, 2013

@ 530 Aurore – Nice catch with that Access Hollywood interview with JJ. I like this quote, “He is not just the guy with a weapon and an agenda.” So can we infer that he has a weapon i.e. April’s Gun. I keep wondering what’s so special about this weapon, that one will take on the Klingons to acquire it. Does it shoot tribbles or maybe nanites that destroy Space Wessels? Need more answers and maybe see this gun in action. Hey who doesn’t like to see shite blow up in some (I hope) original way on screen!!

534. Aurore - February 26, 2013

“I like this quote, ‘He is not just the guy with a weapon and an agenda.’ So can we infer that he has a weapon i.e. April’s Gun…”
______

Truth be told, I personally believed Mr. Abrams merely meant that John Harrison was not your typical bad guy. Especially since, of late, Benedict Cumberbatch had this to say, about his character :

“ He is a terrorist. He operates as a terrorist. He has extraordinary physical powers, but also mental powers. He can sow an idea, which is as powerful as any of the…gunshots or close-hand combat that he’s masterful in…..Vengeance is talked about…it is personal,but, it is also political, I think…It’s what drew me to the role. He’s not a cookie cutter villain etc, etc…” *

I may be wrong, but in the sequel, I think the only thing that might truly be special about any gun, no matter its name, will be Harrison’s use of it.

He is a…”one-man weapon of mass destruction” who is supposed to be “better at everything”, after all…

:)

*
http://trekmovie.com/2012/12/12/watch-cumberbatch-and-quinto-reveal-into-darkness-villain-details-chris-pine-talks-kirk-romance-more/

535. Phil - February 26, 2013

@534.
Kirk: Your Jedi mind tricks won’t work on me!
Harrison: The engineer Marcus is really hot.
Kirk: Yes…she….is….really…..hot….
Harrison: NEXT!

536. Aurore - February 27, 2013

@535.

Harrison: NEXT!….
….But, first, before I escape…a culinary interlude.
I would very much like to give you a taste of my specialty…Dark Chocolate Soufflé With Grand Marnier Crème Anglaise.

Sugarplum….

537. Killamarshtrek - February 27, 2013

Something which has been nagging me about all this…..

The creative consultant on this prequel comic is our own Mr Pascale. As knowledgeable about Trek as i’m sure Anthony is, would you hire someone who has revealed secret information (from ‘trusted sources’) about the movie this comic series is setting up? There’s something not quite right about this, I’m sensing a conspiracy!

What say you Anthony?

538. Aurore - February 27, 2013

“There’s something not quite right about this, I’m sensing a conspiracy!”
_____

Mmmmmmmmm…..I’m sensing a story that will be… “original, unique and different” :

133.boborci – October 3, 2011
though the comics may explore familiar territory, we have no intention of making a remake of anything for the movie.

http://trekmovie.com/2011/10/02/pegg-lindelof-tweet-about-star-trek-sequel-orci-drops-pike-hint/ *

On the thread I just linked to, to the question :”Also, how many story ideas (if any) did you have to ditch because someone posted something similar online?” (post 138), Roberto Orci’s answer was : “None!” (post 139).

*My fellow fans, I am aware of the fact that this thread is now a couple of years old….But, please…. be gentle….let us pretend those comments were written yesterday….I mean c’mon!……

…….Post 139 made me SoOo happy!

:)

539. Phil - February 27, 2013

McCoy: Did someone say Grand Marnier?
Scotty: Ay, though nothin is better then a touch o’ scotch whiskey!
Harrison: If I didn’t know better, I’d say you were thirsty..
McCoy & Scott: So….thirsty…
Kirk: So….hot….
Harrison: Would one of you chaps be so kind as to drop the force field?
Kirk: Must…push….her…buttons….
Harrison: Thank you. Can I cook, or what?

540. Aurore - February 28, 2013

Harrison: Thank you. Can I cook, or what?
Kirk : You are a véritable cordon-bleu, Johnny baby….
Harrison : Mr. Scott, I myself am partial to…a nice Chianti.
Thank you again for a lovely evening, gentlemen. Next time we meet, you will have to try my Charred….. Fava Bean…. Salad with Lemon and Tarragon …

541. Killamarshtrek - February 28, 2013

@538 Aurore

Mmmmmmmmm…..I’m sensing a story that will be… “original, unique and different” :

So am I…. absolutely, but my question remains. Why would you hire a guy who’s telling “the world” who your villain is when you’ve gone to so much effort to protect his identity?!

542. Aurore - February 28, 2013

” Why would you hire a guy who’s telling ‘the world’ who your villain is when you’ve gone to so much effort to protect his identity?!”
_______

If you referred to the Khan rumours, for that is what they are, until someone from Paramount says otherwise…or until we see the movie, I already answered ( @ 538 ) ; no “secret information” was ever revealed.

In my opinion.

543. Aurore - February 28, 2013

Correction.542.

“…until someone from Paramount says otherwise…or until we see the movie…”

=

Unless someone from Paramount says otherwise…or until we see the movie and find out Mr. Cumberbatch does indeed play Khan ( which I strongly doubt )…

544. Aurore - February 28, 2013

@539.

EXCLUSIVE : John Harrison’s true identity is Khan Nibal-Lecter.

545. Disinvited - February 28, 2013

#541. Killamarshtrek – February 28, 2013

I can come with any number of scenarios. How’s this for starters: The comic book editor was his source?

546. Curious Cadet - February 28, 2013

@542. Aurore,
“If you referred to the Khan rumours, for that is what they are, until someone from Paramount says otherwise…or until we see the movie, I already answered ( @ 538 ) ; no “secret information” was ever revealed.”

I believe Killamarshtrek is referring to this:

http://trekmovie.com/2012/04/30/major-star-trek-sequel-spoilers-confirmed/

This site reported confirmation that Cumberbatch plays Khan, significantly after the date of your linked article, and has never retracted it. Indeed they report this is no longer a rumor. Presumably someone at Paramount did say otherwise for this site to report it. In any event the story has NEVER been retracted.

So why would IDW hire someone to be a consultant when that person has been leaking some of their major secrets? I believe that is the question.

There are two possible answers — one) he got it wrong, either on purpose at the direction of the producers, or was fed bad information by trusted sources, or two) he got it right, but has been co-operating to disseminate disinformation which has effectively rendered that article moot, considering how different the depiction would seemingly appear in this story. Either way, this makes him suspect. My guess is he will not be held accountable for failing to retract the story if it’s wrong once he reveals the source and how he was mislead by them. It’s a win for everybody, except this site will likely no longer be able to break secret information about the movies first, or confirm information broken by other sites due to the considerable inside track he’s on now. And we will all finally know just how serious the producers of this movie were in protecting their secrecy, and applaud their skill and cunning in their mastery of deception.

547. Aurore - February 28, 2013

“I believe Killamarshtrek is referring to this:…”
______

If he/she really is, as I stated earlier, those are rumours.

“This site reported confirmation that Cumberbatch plays Khan, significantly after the date of your linked article…”

I know.

“So maybe TrekMovie and the other sites are all wrong and Khan is not in the film (and I admit this is entirely possible). I have also noted that reports of Khan are still officially rumors from Paramount’s point of view.”

http://trekmovie.com/2012/05/10/orci-star-trek-sequel-is-not-remake/

“Officially everything regarding the plot or new characters for the sequel are rumors from Paramount’s perspective. So yes it is possible Cumberbatch is playing Khan, or Mitchell or even some other character.”

http://trekmovie.com/2012/07/09/karl-urban-reveals-cumberbatch-star-trek-sequel-character/

Those were posted after the date of your linked article.

If as I believe, the information provided by the trusted sources is inaccurate, then, to me, no secret…”information” was ever really given.
That was my point.

Moreover, what Paramount considers a rumour * is* (still) a rumour, as far as I am concerned.

548. Killamarshtrek - February 28, 2013

@546. Curious Cadet & @547. Aurore

That article is exactly what I (I’m a he) was referring to. But the point I’m making is why would you invite into your ‘secret circle’ so to speak, someone who is committed to reveal (and has apparently already done so) as many of your secrets as possible? Unless he was only revealing information that suited your purpose, i.e. disinformation.

549. The Sinfonian - February 28, 2013

Hmmm, wonder if Camus II is the next system over from Phaedus IV. Then Cumberbatch very well could be Khan. Khan in Harrison’s body. Harrison in Khan’s damaged body (portrayed by Gatt).

See, McCoy was able to re-animate the Botany Bay sleepers in 2267. But when April and Harrison went after them in 2237…. McCoy wasn’t there. They were killed or disfigured… or like Khan… near death. So, voila, body switcheroo machine, and Khan is inside of Harrison. Problems all solved, thank you, deposit a quarter.

550. Aurore - February 28, 2013

“….But the point I’m making is why would you invite into your ‘secret circle’ so to speak, someone who is committed to reveal (and has apparently already done so) as many of your secrets as possible? ”
_____________

That a creative consultant would have been invited into any kind of “secret circle” remains to be proved. Even though Roberto Orci considers him a friend, from what I understand.

But, this is only my opinion…informed, to some extent, by a statement Damon Lindelof made once:

“…There are things, believe it or not that I find out about at the same time as everyone else…J.J. is like…you know…There’s always a room with a closed door. And, sometimes you’re behind the closed door and sometimes, you’re not….That’s just the way it works.”

http://trekmovie.com/2012/07/15/damon-lindelof-talks-about-struggle-to-find-title-for-star-trek-sequel-without-acolon/
(article with video)

@547, I already mentioned that I was not convinced that any “secrets” had ever been revealed.

What was reported on this here site was reported elsewhere, as well. Furthermore, for months, there had been rumours and so-called spoilers on the whole Internet, so to speak!

” …Unless he was only revealing information that suited your purpose, i.e. disinformation.”

He might have done his job in good faith ; he might have believed the trusted sources.

If anyone can… *prove*… otherwise, I am listening.

551. DeShonn Steinblatt - February 28, 2013

Does Aurore have the slightest interest in this movie, beyond preserving the old canon?

552. Curious Cadet - February 28, 2013

@547 Aurore,

Thanks for those links!

That’s basically the “retraction” that various regular posters have said was never made and thus proves Cumberbatch is playing Khan.

He’s still waffling, so we’re basically in the same boat before he published his first Khan-firmation — that is, all bets are still on the tabel. It might be Khan, it might not be.

553. Aurore - March 1, 2013

“Does Aurore have the slightest interest in this movie, beyond preserving the old canon?”
______

I do not think she does.

Who does she think she is, anyway?

She should believe as ** I ** do that the sequel should be about Khan Noonien Singh.

Failing to agree with me on the matter can only mean that she wants to “preserve” the… “old canon”….

“Canon”…IS all she has ever cared about !!!

:))

554. Aurore - March 1, 2013

“Failing to agree with me on the matter can only mean that she wants to ‘preserve’ the… ‘old canon….’”
_______

Indeed…
She evidently hated the last Star Trek movie.

And, had she actually watched it, she would have understood that her sacrosanct… “old canon”… HAD been preserved!

:)

555. Pasty - March 1, 2013

Paramount Germany moved the german elease date to 5/9/13.
That’s a week earlier than in the US.
German fans are going to see it first?

http://www.trekzone.de/content/dt/news/2013-02-28-1-star-trek-into-darkness-kommt-frueher-ins-kino.htm

556. Phil - March 1, 2013

@555. I seem to recall that Avengers and Skyfall opened in foreign markets prior to US openings. Good way to build a little buzz, Germany would be a good choice, Trek plays well there.

557. NuFan - March 1, 2013

Maybe they could move up the release date for everyone.

558. Disinvited - March 1, 2013

#535. Phil – February 26, 2013

Abrams’ circle is now complete:

“I’m not a dictator, I’m the president. [If McConnell or Boehner want to catch a plane], “I can’t have Secret Service block the doorway. I know this has been some of the conventional wisdom. Somehow, even though most people agree that I’m being reasonable, the fact that they don’t take it, that I should somehow do a Jedi mind meld [with them]….” Barack Obama

559. BatlethInTheGroin - March 2, 2013

#549: What does Camus II have to do with Khan?

560. dmduncan - March 2, 2013

554. Aurore – March 1, 2013

Aurore, I had a dream about you last night! [And not THAT kind of dream! ;-)]

561. James - March 2, 2013

557
Not likely seeing that Iron Man 3 opens on the 3rd of May, moving Trek up even just a week would cut into ticket sales from people still rushing to see Iron Man 3.
Not only that the IMAX theatres showing Iron Man 3 most likely have a set number of days that its most likely contractually commited to playing before they can replace it with another movie.

Just have patience the 15th of MAY will be here before you know it.

562. Aurore - March 2, 2013

560. dmduncan – March 2, 2013

“….[And not THAT kind of dream! ;-)]”

______

Not the kind of dream where two people passionately… talk politics for hours and hours…and…hours?

:)

563. dmduncan - March 2, 2013

562: Hehe! Not exactly that either. In the dream we ran into each other at some type of school. Collegiate atmosphere. We recognized each other though we had never seen each other before.

Though I have no idea what you look like, this is the image my mind conjured of you: You had short blonde hair, but it was not your natural color. You wore a collared but sleeveless, form fitting white blouse and a gold or yellow skirt that stopped just below your knees.

And it was not the present. It had the feel of being in the past…or maybe the present of an alternate universe?

No idea what it means…

564. Aurore - March 2, 2013

@563
“No idea what it means…”
______

I think I do.

Or, to be exact, part of what you described made sense to me.
One sentence, in particular.

Your subconscious mind is definitely onto something….from my perspective, naturally.

I will tell you this.

I have started to notice some grey hair on my head.
I have absolutely no intention whatsoever to dye my hair in order to hide that very fact ; dying my hair would be a first to me.

I am not a blonde.

“You wore a collared but sleeveless, form fitting white blouse and a gold or yellow skirt that stopped just below your knees.”

Yes.

That was me alright. In a gold yellow skirt pretending to be able to sing “Goldfinger” as well as Dame Shirley Bassey. I do it quite often.

True story ( as far as the singing is concerned, at least ).

:)

565. dmduncan - March 2, 2013

564. Aurore – March 2, 2013

Ha! That’s interesting. The dyed hair thing was strange to me, which compelled me to mention it.

566. dmduncan - March 2, 2013

564. Aurore – March 2, 2013

Oh, you know what, Aurore? I should rephrase something. The reason I thought maybe it was the past was because you were younger in the dream than you were in real life. So…maybe…dyed hair, younger…dyeing your hair TO look younger is the signal I picked up out of the noise?

567. edshrinker - March 2, 2013

That is very cool you two. Have to give you the obligatory “GET A ROOM!!”

568. Phil - March 2, 2013

Good lord – never a garden hose around when you need one….

I kid. Get a room…

569. Theatre Historian_Levi - March 2, 2013

Just a heads up, but apparently the Into Darkness app, added a new mission if you are in L.A./
cause when I walked into the chinese to introduce tonights filmt as I passed by Shatners Star on the walk of fame infront of our boxoffice I got a message saying I got 30 points for his visiting his star.
lol
kind of funny I got points on the app just for walking to work.

Now if they would fix the darn scanner portion of the app i could get past ensign

570. Aurore - March 3, 2013

@566. dmduncan – March 2, 2013
“So…maybe…dyed hair, younger…dyeing your hair TO look younger is the signal I picked up out of the noise?”
_________

That is the sentence I was referring to.
It made sense. To me.

One may dye one’s hair to “hide” one’s identity/true self etc….
I do not have anything to hide, per se.

….However, in real life, and, to a large extent, online of course, I do not share personal information…easily.

:)

571. dmduncan - March 3, 2013

570: “….However, in real life, and, to a large extent, online of course, I do not share personal information…easily.”

:-) Same here.

572. Curious Cadet - March 3, 2013

@569 Theatre Historian_Levi,
“I passed by Shatners Star on the walk of fame infront of our boxoffice I got a message saying I got 30 points for his visiting his star.”

Ah hah!!

This proves it!! William Shatner is in the new movie!! All this Khan/Joachim/Mitchell/April/Garth business has just been a smoke screen to conceal Satner’s appearance in the film.

573. Ahmed - March 3, 2013

It looks like Saldana might be thinking of jumping ship to join the new Star Wars movie

—————————

From Star Trek To Star Wars? Zoe Saldana Wants In On The Star Wars Action

The actress plans to jump (star)ship!

“The stunning actress spoke to E! Online about all of the crossovers between the Star Trek and Star Wars groups adding that she would love to make a name in both.

Saldana said “I’m getting ready to call them, I tell you that,” she said. “I want to be a sexy something, like a princess from another planet.”"

http://www.entertainmentwise.com/news/107130/From-Star-Trek-To-Star-Wars-Zoe-Saldana-Wants-In-On-The-Star-Wars-Action

574. Craiger - March 3, 2013

Ahmed – Normally Trekmovie would post that news and now not.

575. Bucky - March 4, 2013

the sexy blonde young Bajoran Mudd is Harry Mudd, brainswapped into a sexy female bajorian body, same way that John Harrison is Khan brainswapped into a younger, British-er body! Now where’s my tinfoil conspiracy hat!

576. Bucky - March 4, 2013

all that said, sexy young Bajoran blonde Mudd kinda blew my mind. I guess history for the Bajorans turned out a bit differently in the JJ-verse (round this time, I thought they were a pre-warp civilization that the Cardassains at this point in the prime timeline have already enslaved). Although, wouldn’t Harry Mudd be older than Kirk and still be Harry Mudd himself? I dig the gender / species swap but I need my precious continuity dots connected! (Or, easier, just Mudd’s wife and/or kid)

577. Bucky - March 4, 2013

And my guess is, reading the comic and seeing that April’s Enterprise looked a lot like Kirk’s Enterprise, I’m gonna go with he was commanding an NX-ship but not exactly Archer’s NX version.

578. Ahmed - March 4, 2013

Craiger, yeah, sadly the site is back to sleep mood !

579. Curious Cadet - March 7, 2013

Aurore,

Thanks for posting the Basilian link to this …

I CANNOT BELIEVE trek movie hasn’t posted this. It’s huge!!

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en?sl=pt&tl=en&u=http%3A//www.trekbrasilis.org/2013/03/07/bryan-burk-exibe-38-minutos-do-filme-no-brasil/

SPOILERS

The first nine minutes has changed … Kirk gets sent back to the academy, the Enterprise taken away from him, but he is later made first officer of the Enterprise. Spock is transferred to another ship. Harrison saves the girl, Cooke drops the ring in water and it is the catalyst for the explosion in London! Seller is Admiral Marcus! The Enterprise is destroyed and falling to Earth, they must divert it to water in order to save people on land. As well as more subtle details. No hint Harrison is Khan.

580. Tomar Re - March 7, 2013

Weller is Admiral Marcus…

581. Ben Yoris - March 7, 2013

WARNING MAJOR SPOILERS :

A french website has just released an article called

“Star Trek Into Darkness : we have seen 25 minutes of the movie”

I’ve read it and here’s a summary of what they say :

- Paramount Pictures France organised a surprise event, this projection of 25 minutes of the movie

- Bryan Burk was there, praised Gene Roddenberry and kinda blamed Rick Berman for limiting the Star Trek audience to a circle of fans

- The movie is bigger than the 2009 one. More climax, more unexpected shifts in the story

- The editing of the movie has been modified since the 9 first minutes and it may be modified again until the release. As an example, the movie begins on Niribu then in London on this new footage.

MAJOR SPOILERS BEGIN NOW :

- In exchange of the healing of his daughter, the father is proposed to blow himself in a building in London by John Harrisson

- Kirk saves Spock and does not take the PD in consideration

- The scene with Kirk and Pike talking : Kirk sure of himself believes he’s going to have the 5 years mission, but is surprised to learn that he’s reduced in rank, Pike gets back the Enterprise.

- Kirk goes in a bar to drink and forget, meets Carol Marcus there. Pike catches Kirk and tells him he has talked to Starfleet in his favor and Kirk is now second to Pike on the Enterprise.

- The communicator rings : a meeting is organised to talk about the London crisis and the role of John Harrisson. Spock will be there and learns about the change in command on the Enterprise.

- The head of the meeting is Peter Weller (President of Starfleet ? of the Federation ?)

- Kirks guesses this is a trap (too many important people in the same place) and BINGO Harrisson arrives with a ship and fires.

- The Enterprise litterally falls down to earth. Spock orders to leave ship, while Kirk and Scotty try to save the ship.

- The Enterprise falls into water, “decapitates” some buildings with the saucer section. Spock teleports to pursue Harrisson, a long action scene when Spock runsafter Harrisson, jumps from ships to roofs.

- No more scenes with Harrisson on this 25 minutes footage.

I’m not sure of the policy of posting external website links here, but if youwant the article (in french), tell me.

LL&P

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