Orci and Kurtzman to end film partnership; Orci lobbying to direct Trek 3 | TrekMovie.com
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Orci and Kurtzman to end film partnership; Orci lobbying to direct Trek 3 April 22, 2014

by Brian Drew , Filed under: Orci/Kurtzman,ST: Into Darkness Sequel , trackback

alex-kurtzman-and-roberto-orci-at-star-trek-premiereRoberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman, the screenwriting and producing duo who have worked on some of Hollywood’s biggest franchises(Mission:Impossible, Transformers, Star Trek, the upcoming Amazing Spider-Man 2) have decided to end their feature film partnership so they can both pursue directing careers.  Their company, K/O Paper Products, will not dissolve, however.  The two are will continue to collaborate on various television projects, both current and upcoming.

Kurtzman is already set to direct “Venom”, a spinoff of the Spider-Man franchise.  Orci’s directorial ambitions will be of great interest to Trek fans.

from Variety:

Orci is currently laser focused on the upcoming “Star Trek 3.” He’s already been tapped to pen the picture along with Patrick McKay and John D. Payne, and he’s lobbying heavily to direct the production. The film’s co-producers, J.J. Abrams’ Bad Robot and David Ellison’s Skydance, appear to be in favor of Orci helming the film, but people familiar with the situation say that Paramount is being cautious. If Orci lands the assignment, “Star Trek 3” would mark his directorial debut.

–Source: Variety

TrekMovie will bring you more information as we get it.

Comments

1. LLAP - April 22, 2014

Surely this can’t be serious?

2. Aurore - April 22, 2014

“…Kurtzman is already set to direct ‘Venom’, a spinoff of the Spider-Man franchise. Orci’s directorial ambitions will be of great interest to Trek fans….

_________

…I don’t understand.

What makes you say that ?!

:)

3. Joshva - April 22, 2014

Awesome. I think they should let him (Orci) do it. He is clearly passionate and is hear all the time listening to our feedback.

4. Clinton - April 22, 2014

Sorry to see the band break up, man.

5. TrekMadeMeWonder - April 22, 2014

Awesome news! Congratulations!

Now, don’t forget us little people!

6. ScifiKabbal - April 22, 2014

Orci has my vote to direct Star Trek XIII. His scripts have been one of the strongest aspects of the new movies, and I think that as director he’ll be more faithful at conveying story elements that were glossed over in JJ’s films. (For example, the magical transport to Kronos should’ve shown a series of transporter relays or at least indicated that it was a more complicated process.)

7. Simon Jessey - April 22, 2014

I’m not worried about Bob Orci directing. Whatever else you may say about him, his commitment to Star Trek cannot be called into question. I remember how nervous I was when Joseph Kosinski made his directorial debut with TRON: Legacy. It turned out to be a fine movie, and his next feature (Oblivion) was even better.

8. Corinthian7 - April 22, 2014

Give Bob a go I say. He seems to be the guy on the Supreme Court who pushes for the new movies to be more Trek like.

9. MAXIMUS - April 22, 2014

@#5…. are you like a studio plant or something?

No… just…. No.

10. Ahmed - April 22, 2014

Let them give him the job, don’t think he will do any worse than STID. After that move on to a new team, please.

11. Phil - April 22, 2014

Don’t think Director Bob will be popping in as often as Writer Bob was.

Good luck, and make us proud.

12. ScifiKabbal - April 22, 2014

@#8 Nope, but I do want the studio to know that Orci has my support. My greatest complaint about the JJ films is that so much in the films have been treated like magic, from red matter to Khan’s blood. Sci-if needs a little techno-babble to distinguish it from fantasy. I think Orci can balance pacing with the need for a little science.

13. Ahmed - April 22, 2014

@ 11. ScifiKabbal – April 22, 2014

“My greatest complaint about the JJ films is that so much in the films have been treated like magic, from red matter to Khan’s blood. Sci-if needs a little techno-babble to distinguish it from fantasy. I think Orci can balance pacing with the need for a little science.”

Who do you think came up with the idea for “red matter or Khan’s blood” in the first place, JJ ?

14. Jeyl - April 22, 2014

I’d be alright with this if,

A. Roberto Orci himself didn’t call me a crack user on this very website.

and

B. Reiterate Simon Pegg’s comment that fans who didn’t like the movie should F off.

15. Jefferies Tuber - April 22, 2014

Hail, hail, fire and snow. Call the angel, we will go. Far away, for to see, friendly Angel Gene come to me.

16. Mike Barnett - April 22, 2014

Let Orci make it so!

17. dmduncan - April 22, 2014

If Bob wants the job, I hope he gets it. I think he’ll actually do a good job for Star Trek being the man who calls the shots, and not having things like the Shatner scene lost because he got outvoted by more people who were wrong about it than right.

18. Keachick (Rose) - April 22, 2014

At the risk of repeating myself – the idea of red matter (layman’s term), or blood containing unusual recuperative elements IS SCI-FI! and good science-fiction as well. The concepts are as good as the notion of Scotty’s transwarp transporter technology being portable. Indeed, each person having their own portable transporter device actually makes more sense than what the TOS series showed.

As has been explained in a lot of Trek (when convenient for the particular storyline…:) ), transporter technology can be dangerous. The more people/things a transporter has to teleport and the greater the distance, the greater the chances that things will go wrong and even tragedy ensue. Therefore, if each person had their own rechargeable device, specially coded to that person’s molecular/DNA structure, the less chance of a (terrible) mishap occurring. The device would go with the person, unlike that of Khan’s.

The charging power would be large, so the device would generally be used in cases of emergency. The very idea that these devices could/would replace starships is probably the DUMBEST of ideas that I have read anywhere. For a start, it goes against certain basic elements of human nature…a nature that forever seeks survival and expression – that of being and doing as part of a group.

As for who came up with the idea of red matter or Khan’s blood that enables him and others to survive being in cryostasis et al for 100’s of years, well, *we don’t know, do we? After all, these stories were put together by a team of writers, with ideas thrown in by the owner of Bad Robot himself. As for the ideas, I find them interesting, intriguing…

Well, we do know actually – TOS’s Space Seed writer. These new writers simply sought to offer an explanation for how Khan and his crew/family might survive long term cryostasis and deal with unknown disease etc they might encounter if/when awoken…

19. Mr. Anonymous - April 22, 2014

Um, how about these guys try and direct something small first so they can at least learn how to do it? I mean, just imagine how much better they’d be with a little practice first.

20. Mr. Anonymous - April 22, 2014

Just because you can write doesn’t mean you can direct.

21. dmduncan - April 22, 2014

Alex Kurtzman’s directorial debut was for People Like Us. A good movie. He was able to direct it well because he has been in the middle of the process, has seen it done and knows what it takes, for over a decade.

The same is true of Bob. If he WANTS to direct, I say he’s READY to direct.

22. LizardGirl - April 22, 2014

I definitely prefer Bob Orci in the captain’s chair, especially with two relatively unknown writers on the bridge.

Paramount is being cautious? I don’t see what reason they’d have to mistrust Bob this far in the game. STID, despite its faults, made tons of money. And it’s not like they don’t know the guy.

23. Ahmed - April 22, 2014

Bob: Lights, camera, ACTION! :-)

http://cdn3.whatculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/roberto-orci.jpg

24. The Keeper - April 22, 2014

We’re doomed
Orci should neither be writing or directing any thing Star Trek.

25. dmduncan - April 22, 2014

22. Ahmed – April 22, 2014

BOOYA! He’s already got his name on a chair.

CASE CLOSED!!!

26. Ahmed - April 22, 2014

@ 24. dmduncan – April 22, 2014

“CASE CLOSED!!!”

LOL

27. Rick - April 22, 2014

Orci directing? I…am not looking forward to this :( IF it’s even going to happen.

ST09 was very good for the most part. I only saw STID once and tried to forget it. Bob gets to tell his trek story how he want to, I don’t particularly like it, but that’s his choice, he loves trek and this is how he wants to do it. but it’s not for me. Not sure I’ll be seeing the third if it goes down like this.

Respect to the man, but I’m feeling like its gonna be strictly TOS for me from now on. I had a dark feeling when they wasted the character of McCoy, brought Khan in (again, but white this time), made Kirk a disrespectful, whiney boy and had Spock and Uhura making out and fighting that this franchise was gonna be a mere shadow of what Trek used to be. I know, I’m old school. I admit that freely. And regret nothing.

Anyways I know there are people who love NuTrek, so I hope for their sake this goes well. I can’t be too mad, I got loads of old trek to keep me company ;)

28. Mad Mann - April 22, 2014

I hope that Orci directs it. I really do. With Abrams committed to producing the movie, he will have JJ around for back up when needed. I am sure it will be fine, in fact BETTER than fine. I’m hoping for LESS lens flares and with no Lindelof means a movie more to the spirit of Star Trek.

I’m gonna say it: with Orci directing this third Abrams-Trek it will be the best of the three.

He just needs to hire a quality science-advisor. I’d do it.

29. crazydaystrom - April 22, 2014

Not sure at all what to think of this. I very much like the idea of a fan in the director’s chair. And I’m always happy when the director of a film is the (or one of the) writers. But having no director credits AT ALL is reason for concern IMO. The fact of the matter though is that my opinion on this is worth no more than the paper and ink I’m using to express this opinion – zero to none!

So once again I’ll wait and see. And hope for the best. It is what it is. And it will be what it will be.

*sigh*

30. Tom - April 22, 2014

I would totally support Bob for directing. Wow even more pressure for him but he can handle it. Hope he still comes around here. Also hope now he can get Shatner and Nimoy to do something special for this film( like an end credit scene I have been lobbying for or something more). If he is the director and writer he can do it!! Don’t getting voted down on a Shatner scene like in 09. Have faith he can deliver a good movie. His directorial career could depend on it.

31. Kenji - April 22, 2014

I see virtually no downside with Orci in the chair.

He has been an active producer for numerous projects. He appreciates the volume of decisions that he has to make, their relative importance, and what areas to delegate to specialists.

As the director, he is in an excellent position to protect his script from studio interference while still being a new guy and therefore perhaps more apt to listen to notes.

He is a Trekker through and through. While I have not necessarily agreed with the shoehorning of fan service into these movies, you could never accuse Bob Orci of failing to respect the Trek legacy, or looking at this project as just one more springboard to topics that are of greater interest.

Of course, it is a risk in that he has not directed. How firm or lax will he be with his actors? How much time has he spent in the editing room? Does he have the eye to tell his stories visually?

These are all obvious concerns, but I think Paramount would understand that the Trek side-boot is two films deep, is already cast, already has a certain look, sound, and musical reference, and is a franchise product with parameters drawn in by the previous five million Trek shows and books. Putting Orci in is no more of a risk than putting Nimoy in.

BUT if I was so presumptuous as to give him advice, I would urge Bob Orci to just grab a camera, even a phone, and shoot and shoot and shoot. Make something now. Make your reel. Get the feel of lighting, how depth of field changes tone. Get the feel of editing, the difference that half a second makes, the inversion of scene order, and the elimination of unnecessary scenes and dialogue (even if you love it) just to make the thing fly without extra weight.

Good luck Bob!!! We’re pulling for you. Man, I wish I could tell him.

32. Platitude - April 22, 2014

I know some fans here have different opinions about the guy, but he’s clearly the biggest Trek fan out of the crew for the first two movies. Having a fan in the directors chair and them getting some fresh blood in the writer’s room could be good signs. If this is coming out anytime soon hopefully we get some more official statements from Paramount on all of this soon.

33. CmdrR - April 22, 2014

BobOrci, any comment?

Best of luck to you both.

34. Cygnus-X1 - April 22, 2014

6. Simon Jessey – April 22, 2014

I’m not worried about Bob Orci directing. Whatever else you may say about him, his commitment to Star Trek cannot be called into question.

Maybe not, but his ability to tell a cohesive, meaningful story certainly can be called into question.

35. NX 01 - April 22, 2014

We are so not going to get a film for the 50 th anniversary of Star Trek. The didn’t write the move yet!

36. Cygnus-X1 - April 22, 2014

29. Kenji – April 22, 2014

I see virtually no downside with Orci in the chair.

Here’s one: His writing seems like a comic book written for 10-year-olds, even when it’s not supposed to.

37. Cygnus-X1 - April 22, 2014

But, on the bright side of this news:

No more Orci/Kurtzman Star Trek scripts!!

Let them each go direct Transformers 5 and the third, fourth and fifth Spiderman reboots. I don’t care, so long as they’re not involved with Star Trek any more!

Best of luck in your new careers, fellas! I hope that you both make tons of money directing all of those lame action movies and pseudo-psychological thrillers that you’ll soon be churning out!

38. Ahmed - April 22, 2014

Since Quinto is a big fan, he should be lobbying as well to direct the movie. True that he never directed before, but so what? It is more than enough to have a fan in the directors chair to direct the 50th anniversary movie!

39. Morg - April 22, 2014

I think Bob should be given the job!!

40. Marja - April 22, 2014

26 Mad Mann, YES GET A QUALITY SCIENCE ADVISOR PLEASE

35 Ahmed, I think you jest. Now if Quinto could get J.C. Chandor to direct, that would be interesting ….

Lol,
CASE CLOSED
funniest words ever spoken on TrekMovie

41. Marja - April 22, 2014

26 Mad Mann, I SECOND THE OPTIMISM HERE!

27 Daystrom, I think your opinion is very close to mine though, “real world”.

32, 33, 34 Cygnus, MEEEOOWWWW … I think they should hire you as script doctor, dude.
————————————————————————————-
BobOrci if you’re checkin’ out the thread, as a fellow fan I think you will put your whole heart into it. May your director’s skills match your vision, and may you make this movie a great success, the best of the three. Good luck, Bob, sincerely. We all want a great Trek movie.

42. JimJ - April 22, 2014

I am 100% behind Bob directing this. Just like Frakes, he’ll do a great job on movie number 1 that he directs, IMO.

43. BeyondtheTech - April 22, 2014

I’d be interested to hear what Bob Orci has to say about this. :)

Maybe he’ll comment soon. Personally, I like the guy. He’s responded to my comments and chuckled at my #AreYouThe1701 Contest entry, even answered when I was asking about the #Super8 walk-on role contest for Star Trek Into Darkness that never went anywhere, and he’s always active and receptive on TrekMovie.com.

44. Jonboc - April 22, 2014

Bob and Alex’s plates are so full it makes perfect sense and I wish them both the best. As far as Trek goes, thats a no brainer, Boborci is the clear choice. Use your leverage Bob, and make it happen, what better way to bring your words to the screen?

45. Jonboc - April 22, 2014

#34. “Let them each go direct Transformers 5 and the third, fourth and fifth Spiderman reboots. I don’t care, so long as they’re not involved with Star Trek any more!”

don’t hold your breath, blue isn’t your color! LoL

46. Mad Mann - April 22, 2014

@38. Ahmed.

Y’know, I’m a big Star Trek fan, can I direct it? Or, at least be the science-advisor?

47. Daoud, The Sinfonian - April 22, 2014

I just wish Bob hadn’t felt he had to quit hanging out here.

48. Ahmed - April 22, 2014

@ 46. Mad Mann – April 22, 2014

“@38. Ahmed.
Y’know, I’m a big Star Trek fan, can I direct it? Or, at least be the science-advisor?”

Absolutely, no problem at all!

Provided of course that you have a friend inside BR or K/O Paper Products who will vouch for you :-)

49. Vultan - April 22, 2014

#44

“As far as Trek goes, thats a no brainer, Boborci is the clear choice.”

A no brainer. Yep.
My thoughts exactly.

50. dmduncan - April 22, 2014

33. Cygnus-X1 – April 22, 2014

Here’s one: His writing seems like a comic book written for 10-year-olds, even when it’s not supposed to.

***

Other than the nixed Shatner scene, which was VERY well written, what other parts do we know were exclusively written by Bob? I’m talking the movies, of course, not the comic books.

Which is not to say that we would all like those parts even if we knew what they were, but I think you are underestimating the dynamics of group writing and the contribution of JJ Abrams to that dynamic.

I like the idea of Bob being able to call all the shots, not having to answer to JJ Abrams, or to endure Lindelof’s well-made arguments for bad ideas.

51. palmer - April 22, 2014

@llap. They are serious, and don’t call them Shirley.

52. Silvereyes - April 22, 2014

That’s it. I give up. First hire writers who have nothing to their credit, now a director who has never directed but would like to try his hand at it. What is this anyway? Is Star Trek a nursery for budding movie “pros” who have career ambitions in fields they know nothing about?

Let’s face it. Orci dropped the ball on STID. So now let’s give him a chance to direct?? What?? This has got to be a bad joke. Go ahead Bad Robot… just hire your buddies… Good call! :(

53. JohnTheMan - April 22, 2014

Do it Orci!

54. El Chup - April 22, 2014

With Orci supposedly being the Trek fan of the two this can’t be a bad thing – well, assuming he doesn’t let it all go to his head again and abuses the fans a second time around.

55. dmduncan - April 22, 2014

Why do you guys blame Bob for every wrong thing in the franchise? You do know what he wasn’t calling all the shots, don’t you?

In fact, the breakup of the duo, Bob going off on his own and wanting to direct–this is all uncharted territory for Bob, and yet so many of you still insist that nothing has changed and that the outcome will be the same or worse, not better.

56. Hugh Hoyland - April 22, 2014

Well if Paramount isnt going to give me the gig I’ve asked for since 2009 (I also would be a first time director! :)) Then I say give it to Bob. He’s a big time fan, knows the material and can pretty much take the next movie in the direction he wants. This could be interesting.

57. Jonboc - April 22, 2014

#50. “Let’s face it. Orci dropped the ball on STID”

Ummm…the moviegoers who made Trek Into Darkness the most successful Trek film ever, have a very different opinion. :) But you’re certainly entitled to your own.

58. Hugh Hoyland - April 22, 2014

I’m a bit sad that Bob and Alex are going their seperate ways though. Bob did say their partnership was kinda like Lennon/McCartney’s or something like that. But maybe Star Trek 3 can be Orci’s “Band on the Run”. :)

59. dmduncan - April 22, 2014

I mean Bob has seen movies made from behind the scenes for what? 20 years? He KNOWS how they are made, yet some of you guys are acting like every first movie a director makes has to be a raging failure before he learns how to make a good one.

60. dmduncan - April 22, 2014

55. Hugh Hoyland – April 22, 2014

Yeah, it happens. Working relationships dissolve because people want to go in different directions. Nothing wrong with that. It’s growth.

And the direction Bob apparently wants to go in alone seems to be Star Trek. This is the best news I’ve heard on the third movie yet.

61. Ahmed - April 22, 2014

@ 56. dmduncan – April 22, 2014

“I mean Bob has seen movies made from behind the scenes for what? 20 years? He KNOWS how they are made”

Very true, he learned a lot from master storytellers like Michael Bay, Jon Favreau, Martin Campbell & J.J. Abrams. I don’t see any problem for him, a first timer, to handle a $150 million project at all!!

62. Charmer - April 22, 2014

In terms of risk, that’s a BAD idea. Case in point: David Goyer. Amazing writer (Blade 1 &2, Batman Begins, etc). But when he was given the task of directing Blade 3, he wasn’t able to deliver.

They really should go with a known director on this (rather than a rookie). Say what you will about Star Trek: Into Darkness. But at the very least, it was well directed.

63. Hugh Hoyland - April 22, 2014

57. dmduncan – April 22, 2014

Same here Dm as far as Orci directing. At first I had to digest the news a little bit. But the idea has grown on me since and I like it. As I said this could be interesting.

64. dmduncan - April 22, 2014

@59: Bad idea for David Goyer doesn’t make it a bad idea for Bob. How many movies did Orson Welles direct before Citizen Kane?

You don’t know what Bob is going to turn in until he does.

In the same spirit of adventure and discovery for which we go to Star Trek to pretend to enjoy, I am hoping for Bob to get the director’s nod to experience the real thing.

For better or worse. There are no sure things.

65. Ahmed - April 22, 2014

@61. dmduncan

“How many movies did Orson Welles direct before Citizen Kane?”

Three short movies:

The Green Goddess [20 min]
Too Much Johnson [40 min]
The Hearts of Age [8 min]

66. Jamie - April 22, 2014

Wow, hope he gets the job! A touch of beginner’s luck is mighty welcome…luck protects ships named Enterprise you see. ;) Wonder if Mr. Orci was responsible of the idea of introducing Q to the ongoing AOS comic? Really looking forward to that arc too.

67. ug - April 22, 2014

“You don’t know what Bob is going to turn in until he does.”

Let’s just hope he likes lens flare less than JJ.

68. Cygnus-X1 - April 22, 2014

41. Marja – April 22, 2014

32, 33, 34 Cygnus, MEEEOOWWWW … I think they should hire you as script doctor, dude.

I’ll take that job for no salary and no back-end!

And if my script doesn’t turn out great, I’ll eat my hat! I’ll eat my hat, I tell ya!

69. Cygnus-X1 - April 22, 2014

49. dmduncan – April 22, 2014

Which is not to say that we would all like those parts even if we knew what they were, but I think you are underestimating the dynamics of group writing and the contribution of JJ Abrams to that dynamic.

Yeah, but I haven’t seen ANY Orci-penned work that was particularly good. Granted, I haven’t watched many of his TV episodes, but that’s because I think the shows that he writes for are lame and boring to begin with. One would think that a writing team of which Mr. Orci was an integral part would at least yield above-mediocre product SOME of the time if his contributions are so good. But, they don’t. Orci, Abrams…the lot of them…they’re the reigning Kings of Mediocrity.

It’s kind of shocking to me that they’re getting so much work. They must be very well entrenched within the Hollywood system. But, just think of all the talented writers out there — the Ronald D. Moores who are two weeks away from joining the Navy but WILL because they won’t be given a chance to put their creative talents to use. Instead we’ll get another mediocre Orci, Kurtzman or Bad Robot episode or movie. Just good enough to lull enough of the unwashed masses into transphyxia for the networks and studios to turn a safe but tidy sum.

70. Charmer - April 22, 2014

@61 – dmduncan: I never said he’d do a bad job, I just said that the risk was high. I’d rather have a known director that’s proven to have a good track record, rather than a newbie in which we have no idea what we’re getting.

71. Bill Peters - April 22, 2014

I am Excited that Bob might get the Opportunity, he knows the Writers, he knows the Material he is getting and he will do Star Trek Justice as he see fit and he knows kind of what the fans Expect, I figure he will be on here before it starts shooting to talk to us.

72. c, the pastor - April 22, 2014

Roberto tiene mi voto, but I want a hispanic captain with BOLAS, lol and do not make him the bad guy!

Like Sulu on INTO- with BOLAS, the best seen of the whole movie…

73. USS Enterprise B - April 22, 2014

Bob, if you’re reading this, I want you to know I believe in you. I think you’d be great in the captain’s chair of Trek 3!!!

74. Cygnus-X1 - April 22, 2014

49. dmduncan – April 22, 2014

I mean, are there Orci-penned TV episodes out there somewhere that I just haven’t seen because they’re buried in TV series that I’ve never felt motivated to continue watching?

If there IS great Orci writing, then where is it? Alias? Xena Warrior Princess? Fringe? Hawaii Five-O, Sleepy Hollow? Are there awesome must-see episodes of these series that I need to see? I’m not saying that those shows are all terribly bad, but are they really terribly good? Or are they just good enough that you’ll watch them if they’re on TV, but you won’t go out of your way for them? That’s how I felt about Alias. I thought it was a neat show for a few episodes, and then I couldn’t even force myself to tune in for it because it got so formulaic and boring. This was, of course, before I’d ever heard the name Bob Orci.

Same with Transformers. It’s OK…Megan Fox is hot…but I didn’t make it to the end of the movie. The Island wasn’t bad. I think I enjoyed it well enough the one time that I saw it. If it came on TV, I might watch it. Or, I might not. Who can say, really. This is the pattern that I notice with these guys. Everything they do is formulaic and humdrum.

ST09 is the best work that Orci has ever done that I’ve seen, and the writing there was actually sub-par, in that the villain was poorly written, there were plot holes, etc.

Simply put, I have never found myself particularly motivated to partake of anything that Mr. Orci has worked on. And I’d be totally fine with that if Trek wasn’t in his body of mediocre-at-best work.

75. Red Dead Ryan - April 22, 2014

I hope Bob Orci gets the job. You now have two new guys, plus someone familiar. A good mix I say.

BTW, I don’t know if “The Amazing Spider-Man 2″ is going to be good (I’m going to see it though), but the Hans Zimmer score is outstanding!

76. Commodore Adams - April 22, 2014

Bob has my vote to direct. The studio had faith in Nimoy and Frakes to direct movies, its not like they were extremely qualified. Having written, produced and twice been on the set of trek movies JJ has directed, Im sure Bob would do a fine job. Especially when he has the guidance of JJ, other producers, and talent surrounding him.

I am just hoping for a truly Star Trek film. No more darkness. I wanted an epic Klingon war movie but we didn’t quite get that. If there are some Klingon skirmishes (IN SPACE) in the next movie that would be great, but we can’t have another dark movie (especially if JJ and crew are only doing 3), we need the light of optimism, positivity, and exploration for the last movie. The time for a 2 hour war movie has passed with Into Darkness, it wasn’t done, its time to move on. Make a movie that truly shows how bright the future is, not just with a bright bridge and lens flares.

77. j - April 22, 2014

I don’t want him to direct at all, after the horribly rude way he’s talked to fans, and his awful responses to (constructive, genuine) criticism. I’m surprised so many people are on board, actually. Oh well.

78. Jason - April 22, 2014

I really hope Abrams doesn’t give in and give Orci the directing gig. He seems to have a very anti-Roddenberry no respect for the fans or the legacy of the franchaise. Basically, Stuart Baird 2.0.

Just give it to someone who knows how to make a movie about characters and big ideas, not just someone who can write some cool action set pieces with little story or character development connecting them. Think someone like Brad Bird or Alfonso Cuarón or even Nicholas Meyer.

79. Cygnus-X1 - April 22, 2014

71. Jason – April 22, 2014

Cuarón certainly knows how to shoot outer space.

Imagine his “Gravity” skills applied to Trek.

I would LOVE to see the return of Nick Meyer.

80. Buzz Cagney - April 22, 2014

Ambitious, for sure. He should probably cut his Directorial teeth on something smaller though.

For me i’d far prefer he concentrated on a decent, original, story.

81. Buzz Cagney - April 22, 2014

#54 well I was one of those movie goers that made STID a ‘success’. But I thought they dropped the ball on the movie. Because I paid to see it doesn’t mean I thought it was a great movie.

82. Vultan - April 22, 2014

#73

Yep, considering his director credits are nil… would be nice if he had something beforehand.

Frakes had some television director gigs before First Contact, as did Nimoy before TSFS. And Nick Meyer had Time After Time before TWOK.

Can’t say I’d envy someone cutting their teeth on a big summer flick like a Trek movie. Wish him luck though.

83. Don Corelone - April 22, 2014

Punk-ass cowardly power play by Orci and pals. Para should fire all involved with Bad Robot immediately. JJ needs to wake up with Orci’s head in his bed sheets one morning.

84. Brett Morris - April 22, 2014

Great, so we can expect just another formulaic, boring Star Trek movie. Star Trek really needs to get back to television with a team of top-notch writers. That’s where Star Trek excels. But that will never happen because no money is in it.

85. boborci - April 22, 2014

Hi, guys.

Anything new going on around here?

86. Kenji - April 22, 2014

Bob!

87. Elias Javalis - April 22, 2014

Bob, all the best. I think you re a great choice as a Director. I trully like your writing style and i endorse the position 100%.

More alien species please. He, he!

88. Nemesis4909 - April 23, 2014

One thing I just don’t understand, all the raw talent out there in writing and directing and Hollywood persistently goes back to these guys.

Star Trek, Transformers, Spider-Man, Mummy, Van Helsing and whatever other franchises they have their name attached to.

I don’t think either of them are terrible writers by any means but every single one of their films have significant problems.

Take “The Amazing Spider-Man 2″ for instance, the script was an absolute mess but there were moments of greatness in there which unfortunately got buried among a mess of other stuff.

It’s gotten to the point where I don’t really look forward to things with their name attached, I think that Star Trek in different hands would be far better, Spider-Man in different hands would be far better.

This is well worn but seriously, Nick Meyer is still creatively active (did anyone read his book that was published not long before the 2009 film came out?) and he gets the franchise, he understands it like nobody else does. Can you imagine what he could do with this new cast and a decent budget? I think he could accomplish greatness another time.

That’s just my hat in the ring on this issue though.

89. Disinvited - April 23, 2014

#68. Cygnus-X1 – April 22, 2014

I’m uncertain but I seem to recall certain elements of JACK OF ALL TRADES which was sort of a sequel/prequel to THE ADVENTURES OF BRISCO COUNTY, J.R. may have what you seek.

90. CsMisi` - April 23, 2014

I really think that all the baby crying aside, 99% of us would love to have the carrier of Bob Orci. If I would be in his position I would push for a directorial debut with Star Trek too. He has nothing to loose. The important thing is that he is the biggest Trekkie from the Bad Robot team, and giving it to him would be awesome, a real Trekkie handling a Star Trek movie. I can only say good luck Bob Orci, do not disappoint us :) I really hope that we will see a 50th anniversary movie, paying respect to what have become before, and setting the tone for the next 50 years. I really think it would be a great move by Paramount setting the premier date to September 2016, to ride the hype of the 50th anniversary (and do not push again Star Wars in May, there are rumors that the new Star Wars would come in May 2016…)

91. Matthias - April 23, 2014

Orci? Why not?! He is the Treker in the group.

92. Disinvited - April 23, 2014

#79. Nemesis4909 – April 23, 2014

I would love to give Meyer a shot but unfortunately he is on record as saying directing in general holds no pull on him. He isn’t interested.

I would be much happier if nuParamount demonstrated some respect for the franchise and its anniversary by trying to get a “name” director onboard but, as it is, I’m not even sure they care about the marketing potential of the show’s anniversary in terms of reveling in or celebrating it? I get a sense they may see that as CBS’ gig.

As for Bob, I wouldn’t mind seeing him get a shot at directing Trek. He’s shown enough glimmers that I believe he has the potential to pull it off. I just wish there wasn’t so much riding on the line this time that might make it Bob’s and Trek’s final bet. But at the end of the day, which would I rather have at Trek’s helm: some luke (pun intended) warm guy with his head in a galaxy far far away or a bloke with some fire in his belly and a passion for it? Call me a foolish romantic, but I’ll take passionate Bob every time.

Sure he’s given me plenty of reasons to have reservations, but if he can boldly go in there and get the gig, I for one will wish him, well.

And I say this with all due affection as one fan to another: Good luck, Roberto Orci, you nut!!!

93. Cygnus-X1 - April 23, 2014

76. boborci – April 22, 2014

Hi, guys. Anything new going on around here?

Hi Bob,

Yes, there was an article posted reporting on your ambitions to direct BR Trek 3, followed by seventy-five comments pertaining thereto, prior to yours.

In your estimation, what is the likelihood % that you will get the job?

Do you know who else is being considered?

94. Cygnus-X1 - April 23, 2014

80. Disinvited – April 23, 2014

I’m uncertain but I seem to recall certain elements of JACK OF ALL TRADES which was sort of a sequel/prequel to THE ADVENTURES OF BRISCO COUNTY, J.R. may have what you seek.

Never heard of it.

I see that Orci wrote 3 episodes of that series. It’s not streaming on Netflix at the moment, but I’ll try to keep it in mind.

95. Khan 2.0 - April 23, 2014

I think he’s be a good choice actually.

-along with JJ he’s probably the one most responsible in bringing Star Trek back (in terms of creating the story, making sure it still adheres to canon, Nimoy etc)

-its the 50th anniversary film so there should be a ton of homages/nods etc and BO wouldnt shy away from Treks past (maybe even inject some TNG/Picard in there somehow?)

-who else they gonna get? no one seems to want to do it..

obviously itd be awesome if it were Meyer, Frakes, or even Singer but i cant see any of them doing it…

96. Eyes Skyward - April 23, 2014

At first the idea of Mr. Orci directing does not seem favourable. It’s a huge project, and there were issues with STID I would hope would be resolved with a new director/writers.

That said, no question Ocri is one of us. No questioning his enthusiasm for the material, and no questioning his best intentions.

We’ll see.

97. What is it with you? - April 23, 2014

Bob, my only advice….LOVE THE SHIP IN EVERY SHOT. You guys have built a beautiful ship and she deserves the screen time. Also…read some naval history. Let’s see a great ship to ship battle. No more one-sided fights. I want to see what your E can really do…

98. Lamo - April 23, 2014

Does this mean more 9/11 truther garbage? Because that is the only explanation for the lame plot conveniences such as the khan earth to Kronos transport.

99. TheFoeYouKnow - April 23, 2014

As a trek fan, I never thought I’d say this, but for the 3rd movie, I want a “reset button” on the movie franchise. Restore the prime timeline, it seemed deeper and more devoted to cannon.

100. Aurore - April 23, 2014

76. boborci – April 22, 2014

Hi, guys.
Anything new going on around here?

_________

Hi, sir!

“…Anything new going on around here?”

That is what I’d like to know, Mr. Orci :

:)

(Posts 517 & 536) :

http://trekmovie.com/2013/12/06/new-writers-added-to-trek-3/

101. Alex - April 23, 2014

76. boborci – April 22, 2014
Hi, guys.

Anything new going on around here?

Hi

Can you please put some TNG references in the next movie?

Many of us grew with TNG not TOS…

102. EleanorRigby - April 23, 2014

I found the article and the news because the spirk shippers are protesting in another site and making some petition to stop this from happening (I find it quite hilarious tbh)
I can suspect what is the real reason why they hate him so much (U..ra) but I, for one, have nothing against Orci. If he wants to direct good for him and good luck. I just hope the story is as good as the first movie was.

103. Timncc1701 - April 23, 2014

31. You could never accuse Bob of failing to respect the Trek legacy??? Are you serious??? How about the idiotic decision to shoehorn Khan into STID??? And raping the Spock death scene from TWOK???
This was the ultimate DISRESPECT to the Trek legacy. To say nothing of minimizing McCoy and turning Scotty into a peacenik. Scotty, who once said the best diplomacy he knows of is an armed phaser bank.
I don’t know if he is responsible for all or even some of these decisions. I certainly hope not if he is to be director. I just don’t know….

104. Timncc1701 - April 23, 2014

Mr. Orci, if you are reading this, please, please, please lead the story arc back more closely to TOS somehow. I thought that was the stated intention at the beginning of the trilogy. Of course there is leeway with the alternate timeline, but can we get back to making this story about exploration and not rewriting old episodes?

105. EleanorRigby - April 23, 2014

89. Timncc1701 …

maybe I imagined it but I remember reading Orci saying that he in fact didn’t want Benedict to play Khan, that was Lindelof’s idea

106. EleanorRigby - April 23, 2014

John Harrison was a decent villain on his own merits it’s so bad that the ones who wanted a remake of Khan won

107. Khan 2.0 - April 23, 2014

to boborci:

Random stuff id like to see in ST3:

-set a good 5 years after STID (which would be the beginnings of the TMP movie era in the Prime timeline). Like the first film showed us the pre 5 years mission origin of the crew (at least the alternate universe version of it), this would show us post 5 year mission ‘Lost Years’ which is also untold onscreen and allowing it to be more a big budget updated version of the original movies (not so much the original series like ST09/STID). Anyway it’ll be 7 years since ST09 in 2016 (plus STID was supposed to be set right after that)

-mushroom space dock with the massive blue lit interior housing all the ships
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120316224125/memoryalpha/en/images/6/6b/Earth_Spacedock,_2293.jpg

-ripped shirts and Kirk-Fu:
http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/133/2/0/an_introduction_to_kirk_fu_by_rabittooth-d5jnrdo.jpg

-TOS & movie music nods (Goldsmith & Horner rifts – not anything big – just a musical ‘cameos’ like Amok Time fight music in STID)

-lengthy phaser ‘beams’ not star wars ‘bolts/blasts’
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Polls/Pictures/Poll007-Phaser.jpg

-Enterprise refit more sleek like TOS movies (esp if set in the TMP era) – e.g. the Ent at the end being refitted into full on exact TMP Enterprise (cool image to end the movie on)

-getting more toward foreshadowing the TWOK style uniforms/field jackets/equipment/ship designs (again esp if set good few years later)

-more movie style to the sound FX/visual FX of the beaming/phasers etc (again if set years later)

-Kirks green season 2 wraparound tunic
http://www.startrekmemorabilia.com/products/full-RBPTN021.jpg

-more vicious Trek III style Klingons again (like VI had them as villains for 25th ann)

-Twilight Zone/Outer Limits/early TOS style eeriness/horror

-unexplained wonder/unknown – questions and mcguffins that are not answered and are left to the imagination which is far more powerful than any explanation the film maker can give (I like the fact Khans backstory was vaguely described/left unexplained in STID – the brig scene was kind of similar to the Khan/Chekov scene on Ceti Alpha V in TWOK – ‘on earth..200 years ago…I was a prince with power of millions..’)

-more references to the prime timeline/alternate future for the 50th anniversary – maybe a ‘Days of Futures Past/Yesterdays Ent’ type story involving alternate realities, prime timeline links etc (maybe involving TNG and or Shat Kirk)

-the borg (maybe something to do with them if above.) FC will be 20 years old in 2016

-Nero (what happened to him and the remains of the Narada when they went through the black hole – did he end up back in the future? The past? The delta quadrant? – see borg above again. maybe Nero could be like the Ras Al Guld of the Trek trilogy? – haunting Kirk?)

-various Trek stuff cameoing/referenced/easter egging – e.g. Talosions, Doomsday machine, gorns, cloud killer, Guardian of Forever, corbomite, tholians, wild west, rand, No 1, Nurse Chapel (finally), Capt Terrel, Kruge, Decker, Ilia, Savvik, Sybok, Admiral Archer, Botany Bay/Khan(again), Reliant/Excelsior, Patrick Stewart and the next gen (see points above), Vger (somehow linked to the borg? see points above)

-some big name supporting roles? e.g.:
Bryan Cranston as Chang, Jason Moma as Kruge, Jeremy Irons as Gorkon, Taylor Kitch as Joachim, Chiwetel Ejiofor as Capt Terrel,

-some big name cameos??
Arnold Schwarzenegger – Klingon Emperor, Harrison Ford – Head of Starfleet (or some big shot Starfleet Admiral dishing out orders to Kirk at some point just like in TOS), Stephen Collins – Matt Decker, Scott Bakula – Captain Archer (flashback), Brent Spiner – Dr Soong (flashback), Patrick Stewart – Picard (flashfoward) or Picards ancestor, Michael Dorn – Worfs ancestor, Leonard Nimoy – Spock Prime, William Shatner – Old Kirk (flashfoward scene), Richardo Montalban – Khan (CG flashback or Space Seed briefing room photo)

-TMP style transporter malfunctions (with gory aftermath)

-TWOK style nebulas (hiding/battling in)

-more federation starship vs. federation starship carnage

-more Bones

-Shatner….id still like him there…if possible. maybe retro footage from some outtakes from previous Trek movies or little seen tv movies/TJ Hooker or even Shatner as he is now – Kirks grandpop? alternate reality future Kirk? aged up Pine Kirk Deadly Years style? (maybe the opening could be the end of The Deadly Years re-imagined with Shatner and Nimoy opening the movie fighting off the Romulans before they get de-aged back to Pine/Quinto)

-more redshirt deaths – im talking ‘Obsession’ levels

108. Daniel Shock - April 23, 2014

I suspect that some of the things we hated most about the last movie were really not Mr. Orci’s doing. I think Lindeloff and JJ probably introduced things that they thought were cool, but didn’t fit with Star Trek.

And regarding some of Orci’s comments on this site – he was in a tough spot having to promote the movie and deal with (some of) us hating it. I don’t blame him for losing it.

If he gets the gig – he’ll have to own it. I hope he does get it and does it well.

109. Mad Mann - April 23, 2014

@88 boborci

Yeah, lots of new stuff. I got another masters degree! This one is in technology administration. Umm, and I found a turtle.

Oh, and Italian Spider-Man!

110. Chris Doohan - April 23, 2014

Wow, having Bob at the helm would be fantastic!!!!! I can’t think of a better choice. Good luck, Bob

111. Danpaine - April 23, 2014

Godspeed, Mr. Orci. Make us proud.

112. joe1306 - April 23, 2014

all I can say is: Do it! Do it! Do it! =)

113. Endeavour crew - April 23, 2014

According to Bob himself the script for ST/2016 is done- let’s hope it’s good!………

:-)

114. star trackie - April 23, 2014

Loved JJ, and when he left the directorial duties I wept openly. Well, maybe I didn’t really, but I was distressed. My concerns have been all but erased. Bob Orci is a very creative sort…probably has his own ideas in his head as to how a scene should play out as soon as he write it! He would do a GREAT job. Hope it pans out!!

115. Phil - April 23, 2014

@93. Good to hear that from someone who’s worked with the guy!

116. Phil - April 23, 2014

@76. Not yet….

117. Edward - April 23, 2014

Shocked so many want an unproven director to helm the next Star Trek film.

Just because you are a fan of something or even a screenwriter of some merit doesnt make you a “director”. Remember how much work Frakes put in before he directed his first Feature.

After STID we need a solid netry into the Star Trek Feature series of films and one that demonstrates both critical and commerical success. I wholeheartedly think Paramount are playing fast and looose with th eStar Trek property and not giving it the deserved attention and involving the right level of director if they go with Orci.

I have no personal axe to grind with the chap – Im sure he is lovely but if he had directed anything else then I would have some confidence. The amount of departments he will have to oversee, fx work, editing, actors……you name it – how does anyone think a first time director coudl handle a Star Trek feature?

Even Nimoy had directed some other bits and bobs before The Search For Spock.

Im passionate about Star Trek – I want to see a coherent, exciting, thrilling, sci fi film when I go and see Star Trek not a mish mash of a ham fisted job at telling a story.

All those that say that he will have JJ to fall back on as a Producer dont know what Producers do – they are the money and ensure obstacles are removed to allow the Director to get on with his job. They dont stand next to the Director and say “If it were me, I would move the lighting rig over that way more and change the camera lens to a different millimeter….”

Case in point too – a relatively inexperienced director was allowed to helm Nemesis. It didnt quite work, the film had an awful plodding pace and the script didnt make sense and could have done with a director to ask some tough questions of John Logan and get another rewrite. The chap who directed Nemesis is Stuart Baird – one of th emost celebrated and highly regarded Editors to have ever worked in Holllywood….his knife has cut some of the biggest films you have ever see and he has worked with the greatest directors of all time.

This alone proves that you can either direct or you cant and no amount of hanging around with those will allow greatness to rub off on you.

Orci will no doubt make a fine director in years to come.

But, is it such a bad thing to say, just at this point, lets have a proven winner behind the camera, to give us all the Star Trek film we deserve?

118. Commodore Adams - April 23, 2014

71. Jason – April 22, 2014 Yes Meyer did make 2 of the best Star Trek movies, but dude…he’s old now, probably a little behind the times, a little out of touch. These new movies are about young minds, fresh ideas, be tolerant.

And when Bob get the job I will congratulate him and wish him the best.

89. Timncc1701 – April 23, 2014 Relax dude and have a nip of Saurian brandy.

119. Gary 8.5 - April 23, 2014

Good luck getting the gig Bob!
It should be worth noting that there will always be fans who are are critical of ANY new director Paramount hires for Trek.

120. Commodore Adams - April 23, 2014

96. Endeavour crew – April 23, 2014

When did he say that? When anything was last spoke of it, J.D. Payne was at film festival in March saying that Paramount just gave the OK on the pitch and to start writing and that they would have a draft completed my May and then revisions there after. I doubt it done done.

121. Silvereyes - April 23, 2014

The point is, just because someone is a writer doesn’t make him a director. Hey what if I say I’m a lawyer, does that mean I can cook?

Does this mean Bob isn’t going to succeed or that I wish that he crashes and burns? Of course not, but nothing in the past makes me optimistic for the future. If all of you prefer to flock and want to be fanboys that’s your choice. I’ll be Bob’s biggest fan if this is a success, but he has to deliver now.

122. Dunsel Report - April 23, 2014

Bob Orci’s Star Trek 3 loglines:

When his girlfriend Carol Marcus is killed by “terrorists” who attack the Federation 10K race on Risa, at first Kirk believes the official story. But when Spock discovers footage of “crisis actors” from Section 31 trained to fake the bombing using a new type of Holodeck equipment, the crew of the Enterprise is drawn into a battle to expose the Truth.

123. Spock's Bangs - April 23, 2014

Bob has been in the business a longtime. He knows what goes on behind the scenes. He is part is the new team that brought Trek back from the dead and is co-writer of the last two movies. He is also a fan. He will do a great job if the studio will let him. i say, give this guy the keys to direct this thing and lets get on with it!

124. NuTrekRocks - April 23, 2014

I say go for it Bob!! Just please hire a science advisor for the next movie. The moon is not 20 ft. from the earth. But I forgive you!

125. Jefferies Tuber - April 23, 2014

I don’t really have a problem with Orci directing per se. He’s been a mensch on this site, cares about the franchise and seems to have been involved in many good decisions. But we’ve never really gotten the autopsy report on STID, to find out whether his 9/11 Truther-ness is connected to the downward spiral of cynicism and conspiracy in this alternate universe. It seems incontrovertible that Gene Roddenberry was an optimistic socialist and Bob Orci is a cynical libertarian. More debatable, though, is my opinion that his politics are carcinogenic to Trek.

At any moment, with no warning, balance or fairness whatsoever, any news outlet in the world could hijack Trek’s publicity with ‘Trek director says 9/11 was an inside job.’ At that point, all the talent and love of Trek will matter for naught, and the whole movie will be politicized and examined on that basis. He’s bait sitting out in the open for Fox News.

126. LogicalLeopard - April 23, 2014

All I gotta say is, I don’t care if Bob Orci knows what end of the camera to look in, he’s got my vote because he comes here and gets into the ring with fans. Anyone who will do that, will probably try to do the movie justice.

Yeah, I know, that’s probably not the best way to judge who would be the best director, but that’s how I feel.

And also, I have to give one piece of advice to Bob if he’s listening. Lens flares. Must have. If we don’t have them, I might stumble out of the theatre like Dukat stumbled around DS9 when they had to give the station up.

127. Mike Barnett - April 23, 2014

Bob Orci,

Email the Paramount execs a link to this comments thread. It’s pretty positive up to this point. Maybe that’ll help your case.

128. Kenji - April 23, 2014

@89

You might not like the story decision – and I certainly have said that STID is the “Quantum of Solace” of the series – but in my opinion, the shoehorning of Khan and the repetition of lines (BTW when you use rape metaphors willy nilly, that reinforces a stereotype about the sexual cluelessness of male Trek fans) comes out of a sincere adoration of TOS; of a powerful sentimentality for the tropes of TOS.

Scotty a peacenik? I call your “phaser bank” and raise you “perhaps we are seeing some of that future here” at the banquet for Chancellor Gorkon.

Besides, in STID, Scotty was not espousing pacifism. He was espousing two things: professional integrity by refusing to sign off on receipt of unknown, scan-blocked weaponry (the Enterprise has always been dearer to Scotty than James Kirk – see “but they called her a garbage scow!”); friendship with Kirk by trying to focus him on Federation ethics rather than vengeance.

Let’s also put the K/O scripts in perspective. If you want an example of hacks dumping on the legacy of Trek, I give you Voyager.

129. Kenji - April 23, 2014

@125

JT

You raise some interesting points, would enjoy seeing you elaborate on the notion that libertarian politics are inimicable to Trek. I don’t agree or disagree, I would just like to read your argument.

Let’s assume that Roddenberry’s Federation does espouse a utopian socialism. It’s no stretch – obviously, his background shows sexual, racial, and species egalitarianism; little or no reference to money; TNG writer’s bible prohibits petty conflicts and discord; tyrants and gods are overthrown on regular basis.

I’m not sure that alternative political perspectives have either been shown, or that if shown, would necessarily threaten the Roddenberry conception.

The other interesting notion up for debate is whether Bob Orci (if he is a 9/11 dissenter) is well enough known for his viewpoint for this to affect the commercial and critical prospects of the next Trek movie. I think that in some cases, a creative has been so notorious that his or her product has been tainted, e.g. Victor Silva and “Powder” or more recently, Mel Gibson.

OTOH, the crazed Michael Jackson stridently defended cosleeping with teens to Martin Bashir, yet retained a considerable fanbase.

130. Ralph Pinheiro - April 23, 2014

Hi Bob, my advice:

1 – Dont forget the original trio Spock, Kirk, McCoy.
2 – The character Guinan (Whoopi Goldberg) would be a good tribute to the franchise, she lived for centuries.
3 – “Q” would also be a way to lead us to revise many characters.
4 – A story about adventure, humor, philosophy. A little more Shakespeare.

If you want to be the director, I support it.

131. Ahmed - April 23, 2014

@ 117. Edward – April 23, 2014

“Shocked so many want an unproven director to helm the next Star Trek film.”

Don’t be, it is enough for most people that he come here & talk with them, they feel that he is “one of us” !

So yeah, let someone with no prior experience as a director takes the helm of a $150 million project. It is not that hard, right ?

Anyone who was there all these years, learning from great filmmakers like Michael Bay, can do it in their sleep! It is a Star Trek movie after all, not 2001: A Space Odyssey.

132. Marja - April 23, 2014

97 WhatIsIt, with you 100%, I love the new ship, well, except for the tail fins added most recently. I’d so much rather see her battling with something akin to her size.

101 Alex, Not exactly logical, as TNG era hasn’t happened yet in AltUniverse … unless you mean some names or something.

…102 Eleanor, SMH. They hate NUhura [and thus, Bob]. Because they have little understanding of male friendship and must for some reason cast it in romantic terms. And have done so for decades, which apparently gives them “ownership” of the two main characters of Trek? I fully support Bob’s creation of an equality-based adult relationship in Spock and Uhura. Bravo, and may it continue.

107 Khan 2.0, Don’t want much, do you. Those are random all right ….

117 Edward, The factors you mention are a bit worrying. I hope Bob is able to get some tutelage in the art of directing between now and then and has a “lifeline” to good directors for any questions that come up during filming.

I’m, IDK, hesitantly optimistic? On the negative side, it could be that Paramount doesn’t give a rat’s patootie about Trek and thus is giving it to an untried director; on the positive side, they’re giving Trek to a Trekfan, so it could be they care about its longevity as a fictional drama franchise.

A script writer is the first “visionary” in the process of a film. S/He imagines the scenes, the people, the emotions, the scenery, so it doesn’t seem a huge leap CREATIVELY. However, TECHNICALLY, directing involves a HUGE learning curve and a broad selection of expertise. I cannot imagine learning directing, like, 10 months before commencing such a huge project. Best of luck to Bob if he is chosen.

I’d still like Whedon. Or Spielberg :-) … why not, Trek is one of the greatest Sci-Fi franchises ever.

133. Hugh Hoyland - April 23, 2014

I think this may be in the bag, Bob is probably going to direct it. I mean has there been any word on any other director recently? None that I’ve heard of (The last being Cornish). The clocks ticking on this project for sure.

So hats off to Bob for probably getting the gig! I think its in very good hands and I think he knows what he’s getting into. I would just like to ask Bob why he kind of changed his mind about directing now?

I remember quite a long time ago asking him (and some other folks here to) why doesnt he jump into the directing chair and he said something to the effect that it really takes a lot of your personal time and energy to do it which I imagine is very true.

134. Khan 2.0 - April 23, 2014

to boborci:

Random stuff id like to see in ST3:

-set a good 5 years after STID (which would be the beginnings of the TMP movie era in the Prime timeline). Like the first film showed us the pre 5 years mission origin of the crew (at least the alternate universe version of it), this would show us post 5 year mission ‘Lost Years’ which is also untold onscreen and allowing it to be more a big budget updated version of the original movies (not so much the original series like ST09/STID). Anyway it’ll be 7 years since ST09 in 2016 (plus STID was supposed to be set right after that)

-open with the end of a mission like STID (maybe an TOS ep?)

-Throughout the opening credits – images (painted or photo) of the crews various missions (classic scenes from classic eps redone with the nu crew – like Spiderman 2 opening credits)….Arena, City, Doomsday, Amok, Spectre. etc

-mushroom space dock with the massive blue lit interior housing all the ships
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120316224125/memoryalpha/en/images/6/6b/Earth_Spacedock,_2293.jpg

-ripped shirts and Kirk-Fu:
http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/133/2/0/an_introduction_to_kirk_fu_by_rabittooth-d5jnrdo.jpg

-TOS & movie music nods (Goldsmith & Horner rifts – not anything big – just a musical ‘cameos’ like Amok Time fight music in STID)

-lengthy phaser ‘beams’ not star wars ‘blasts’
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Polls/Pictures/Poll007-Phaser.jpg
http://trekannoyances.com/tos_enterprise_phasers/ent_phasers_blue.jpg

-Enterprise refit more sleek like TOS movies (esp if set in the TMP era) – e.g. the Ent at the end being refitted into full on exact TMP Enterprise (cool image to end the movie)http://www.leestringer.com/Images/MotionPicture/Enterprise_02.jpg

-getting more toward foreshadowing the TWOK style uniforms/field jackets/equipment/ship designs (again esp if set good few years later)

-more movie style to the sound FX/visual FX of the beaming/phasers etc (again if set years later)

-Kirks green wraparound tunic
http://www.startrekmemorabilia.com/products/full-RBPTN021.jpg

-more vicious Trek III style Klingons again (like VI had them as villains for 25th ann)

-TMP style transporter malfunctions (with gory aftermath)

-TWOK style nebulas (hiding/battling in)

-more federation starship vs. federation starship carnage

-more Bones

-maybe change the classic ‘STAR TREK’ font to the movie font for promo stuff? (i always liked the movie font best):
http://a.images.blip.tv/WMAhero-FilmTrekStarTrekTheMotionPicture364.jpg

-Twilight Zone/Outer Limits/early TOS style eeriness/horror

-unexplained wonder/unknown – questions and mcguffins that are not answered and are left to the imagination which is far more powerful than any explanation the film maker can give (I like the fact Khans backstory was vaguely described/left unexplained in STID – the brig scene was kind of similar to the Khan/Chekov scene on Ceti Alpha V in TWOK – ‘on earth..200 years ago…I was a prince with power of millions..’)

-more references to the prime timeline/alternate future for the 50th anniversary – maybe a ‘Days of Futures Past/Yesterdays Ent’ type story involving alternate realities, prime timeline links etc (maybe involving TNG and or Shat Kirk)

-the borg (maybe something to do with them if above.) FC will be 20 years old in 2016

-Nero (what happened to him and the remains of the Narada when they went through the black hole – did he end up back in the future? The past? The delta quadrant? – see borg above again. maybe Nero could be like the Ras Al Guld of the Trek trilogy? – haunting Kirk?)

-various Trek stuff cameoing/referenced/easter egging – e.g. Talosions, Doomsday machine, gorns, cloud killer, Guardian of Forever, corbomite, tholians, wild west, rand, No 1, Nurse Chapel (finally), Capt Terrel, Kruge, Decker, Ilia, Savvik, Sybok, Admiral Archer, Botany Bay/Khan(again), Reliant/Excelsior, Patrick Stewart and the next gen (see points above), Vger (somehow linked to the borg? see points above)

-some big name supporting roles? e.g.:
Bryan Cranston as Chang, Jason Moma as Kruge, Colin Firth as Gorkon, Taylor Kitch as Joachim, Chiwetel Ejiofor as Capt Terrel,

-some big name cameos??
Arnold Schwarzenegger – Klingon Emperor, Harrison Ford – Head of Starfleet (or some big shot Starfleet Admiral dishing out orders to Kirk at some point just like in TOS), Stephen Collins – Matt Decker, Scott Bakula – Captain Archer (flashback), Brent Spiner – Dr Soong,, Patrick Stewart – Picard (flashforward) or Picards ancestor, Michael Dorn – Worfs ancestor, Leonard Nimoy – Spock Prime, Richardo Montalban – Khan (CG flashback showing end of Eugenic Wars/BB/revival – or Space Seed briefing room photo)

-Shatner….id still like him there…if possible. maybe retro footage from some outtakes from previous Trek movies or little seen tv movies/TJ Hooker? or even Shatner as he is now – The lost ST09 Birthday scene? as Kirks grandpop? alternate reality future Kirk? ( fanpleasing end cameo as old Pine Kirk – not Prime Kirk – maybe with old Quinto Spock – something like Cloud Atlas end) or even aged up Pine Kirk Deadly Years style? (maybe the opening could be the end of The Deadly Years re-imagined with Shatner and Nimoy opening the movie fighting off the Romulans before they get de-aged back to Pine/Quinto)

-more redshirt deaths – im talking ‘Obsession’ levels

135. Khan 2.0 - April 23, 2014

sorry double post – please delete #107

136. William Bradley - April 23, 2014

Well, he clearly knows his Star Trek.

And he wasn’t responsible for Cumberbatch being “Khan.”

Annnddd … Terminator: Genesis started filming this week in New Orleans.

So time is a wasting.

137. Khan 2.0 - April 23, 2014

@132

I know!

more:
-open with the end of a mission like STID (maybe an TOS ep?)

-Throughout the opening credits – images (painted or photo) of the crews various missions (classic scenes from classic eps redone with the nu crew – like Spiderman 2 opening credits)….Arena, City, Doomsday, Amok, Spectre. etc

138. Disinvited - April 23, 2014

# 104. Silvereyes – April 23, 2014

” The point is, just because someone is a writer doesn’t make him a director. Hey what if I say I’m a lawyer, does that mean I can cook?” – Silvereyes

I think I get the point that you are trying to make. I just wish you could use less weak language and logic than the form you chose which leaves hanging an implication that I don’t believe you are trying to make:

The worst cooks are lawyers therefore a writer makes the worst director.

Neither of which are self-evident and one doesn’t necessarily follow from the other.

History also exposes this reasoning’s weakness:

Nick Meyer was a writer with no directorial experience when he successfully directed his TIME AFTER TIME which lead to him immediately next directing Trek even though he only had a track record of 1 directing attempt.

Having lived with one Paramount’s handling of Trek from the beginning to its end, I’m just resigned to wishing to get what small pleasure I can by some Paramount, any Paramount, showing some modicum of respect for what Trek has meant if not to them then the world. To that end, I am with you in that I’d prefer them putting a little more effort into their director search to hoop up the anniversary. However, history has taught me not to hold my breath in these regards, as old Paramount rarely gave these events such respect, licensing Creation Con pretty much to start celebrating them any time they wanted, for example.

Resigning myself to this and to the fact that Disney changed copyright law so that Trek hasn’t entered the public domain as I expected it to have long ago, I had to ask myself the question that I did in my message of April 23, 2014 now numbered 82 given that I fully expect nuParamount to cut budget corners at this stage as old Paramount did.

Now to be fair to you, if Bob gets the gig, I have hope based on mere signs that you could easily point out are no guarantee of success. But then what is?

139. Ahmed - April 23, 2014

It is confirmed, J.D. Payne and Patrick McKay are working on Flash Gordon.

============================

FLASH GORDON Movie Rights Secured by Fox

Twentieth Century Fox has secured the rights to Flash Gordon from Hearst Entertainment, with John Davis producing and Star Trek 3 scribes J.D. Payne and Patrick McKay. First published 80 years ago in a sci-fi adventure comic strip from Alex Raymond, the title hero is a handsome athlete and Yale grad who rockets to the planet Mongo with his faithful companions to put a stop to the evil ruler, Ming the Merciless. George Nolfi penned a treatment of the reboot and is now on board as producer.

http://collider.com/flash-gordon-movie-reboot/

140. Khan 2.0 - April 23, 2014

oh wait they aren’t doing opening credits anymore (so maybe throughout the end credits….I dunno)

141. Silvereyes - April 23, 2014

137 Disinvited

“…I just wish you could use less weak language and logic than the form you chose”

Yah. I think the weakness here is being passive-aggressive and insulting. But regardless. I don’t know you so I won’t start being offended by your comment…

But “The worst cooks are lawyers therefore a writer makes the worst director” this makes no sense! That’s not what I meant at all!! I guess in my weakness I used an analogy which was perhaps a little too far reaching for you (now there’s some passive-aggressiveness for you!).

My point was that there is a world of difference between writing and directing so just because you can do one does not mean you can do the other… You took my meaning so literally… Are you in IT by any chance? :)

142. Rebecca Meden - April 23, 2014

Ann – As a life long fan of Star Trek starting from episode 1, I am torn with should an untested director be in charge of the next movie……
I am on the fence with this one.Having said that, I would wonder what Robert Orci arguments would be to convince the Paramount executives in charge on why he should be chosen as director for a major franchise without any experience sitting in the director’s chair?
I am not sure what Transcendence cost to make, but it did tank with a first time director at the helm.There again there are many successful movies with first time directors.
Soooooo what would he say?

143. MagicDan - April 23, 2014

I think Mr. Orci would be a good choice.

He is the most familiar with all the aspects of NuTrek, inside and out. And most likely will have learned from any mistakes of the last movie.

I can not imagine he would go down the road of a rehash story (homage as it were) with the next movie. He also loves TOS, and I would rather have him than someone with a totally new point of view that might make it less Star Trek.

For me the last movie was a good action sci-fi film with a Star Trek costume on.

I think Mr. Orci would be the best choice to put some real Star Trek heart to the next one.

144. SteTrek - April 23, 2014

@boborci – Make it So!

145. BatlethInTheGroin - April 23, 2014

“set a good 5 years after STID (which would be the beginnings of the TMP movie era in the Prime timeline)”

No, it wouldn’t.

146. Bill Peters - April 23, 2014

Mr. Orci Glad to see you back.

147. Keachick (Rose) - April 23, 2014

#35 – There is no reason to think that they won’t have a third movie ready for release by Star Trek’s 50th Anniversary. The story outline, submitted by the four writers, Kurtzman, Orci, Payne and McKay, has been approved by Paramount and so now they are working on the next stage of the screenwriting process. It is quite possible that filming could start later this year or early next year.

STID’s principle photography occurred between January and May 2012 and release of same film happened on 9 and 16 May 2013 respectively. In other words, I think for films of this kind, the studio allow about a year for post-production work. The time frame appears to be the same for this third film in this series of Trek movies.

If the film makers plan to release the film on the 50th Anniversary date, 8 September, that gives them a little more time…

148. Disinvited - April 23, 2014

#141. Silvereyes – April 23, 2014

IT? Guilty as charged.

Passive-aggressive? Not intentionally, but if I if I do you the honor of reflecting hard on it, I can see where family dynamics rooted in the massive raging alcoholism dominating both of my grandfathers’ patriarchies…well… I have to admit that you may be onto something there. Can’t deny that it may indeed be something so ingrained into our manner of speaking and approach to life in general that it may almost amount to a regional dialect unto itself.

Thanks, Silvereyes. I can’t help but be grateful as you have caused me to see some answers as to some puzzling responses that have mystified me for decades.

“My point was that there is a world of difference between writing and directing so just because you can do one does not mean you can do the other…” – Silvereyes

This, while true, does not account for whatever reasoning got the writer Meyer his first gig as director of TIME AFTER TIME, nor old Paramount’s rationale for letting him direct based on his body of work of one.

149. John Whorfin - April 23, 2014

Sorry, no disrepect to Mr. Orci, but it would be completely irrational, grossly irresponsible, and dare I say highly illogical to hand over directing duties of a $175M movie to someone who has not only never directed a feature, but hasn’t even directed a TV episode or short film.

The fact he’s lobbying for the job shows breathtaking hubris on Orci’s part, and frankly a disrespect of the craft. If he’s serious about directing, he should take the time and effort to learn how to direct and get some experience under his belt, which he’s had every opportunity to do (esp. on the TV side of things).

Writing is not directing. Producing is not directing. Directing is directing.

Also, let’s not forget this will be Star Trek’s 50th Anniversary film. It deserves a great director.

150. Ahmed - April 23, 2014

@146. Disinvited

“This, while true, does not account for whatever reasoning got the writer Meyer his first gig as director of TIME AFTER TIME, nor old Paramount’s rationale for letting him direct based on his body of work of one.”

Different times & very different budgets. Also, he at least made one movie before working on WOK, a movie that cost far less than TMP.

But hey, in a world where it is normal for flight attendants to fly an airplane simply because they watched the captain doing it for years, it is reasonable to give the helm of a mere movie to a writer who never direct anything but he did watch how they make movies for many years!

151. Keachick (Rose) - April 23, 2014

Re: Bob Orci directing the next Star Trek movie –

I am cautious. That is not to say that Bob Orci may not have lots and lots of good ideas about how he would like the scenes he wrote played out etc – it is more to do with his inexperience as director. A director has more responsibility, like having to deal with a budget, delegation and gaining the respect of the actors and others and being able to get out of them their best work. Then again, no doubt Bob Orci has considered these factors and feels confident enough to go for the director’s chair anyway.

I say – Good luck, Bob Orci and may the wind be at your back!

As for someone with a science/engineering background – I believe JD Payne studied Engineering in College, but found that he liked writing more.

152. Ahmed - April 23, 2014

@147. John Whorfin

“Writing is not directing. Producing is not directing. Directing is directing.

Also, let’s not forget this will be Star Trek’s 50th Anniversary film. It deserves a great director.”

Well said.

153. Silvereyes - April 23, 2014

# 146 Disinvited

“Thanks, Silvereyes. I can’t help but be grateful as you have caused me to see some answers as to some puzzling responses that have mystified me for decades.”

That’s quite a statement, and you’re giving me credit I’m sure I don’t deserve. However, this is most gracious of you and I thank you.

154. Phil - April 23, 2014

@147. Really, did you read the post before hitting send? So, not only are you ignoring a long career in the industry, you are suggesting that because he had to argue for it, he’s disrespecting the craft? The guy is familiar with the material, the production company, and the studio, and has already successfully made the pitch for the next movie. He’s as logical a choice for the job as anyone else who might be interested…

155. Ahmed - April 23, 2014

@152. Phil

“He’s as logical a choice for the job as anyone else who might be interested…”

LOL

156. Keachick (Rose) - April 23, 2014

Paramount would not even be considering the possibility of allowing Bob Orci to sit in the director’s chair if Orci had not studied the mechanics/art of directing. There are courses offered in how to direct, produce, write, act, be a stunt double etc and they no doubt come with a some legitimate form of accreditation. It seems patently obvious, to me at least, that both Bob Orci and writing partner, Alex Kurtzman, have both studied at the “school of directing”. They work in Hollywood!

Now it is up to the Paramount franchise owner and partners like Skydance Productions to determine whether Bob Orci has enough now of what it takes to get the directing job done. Bear in mind that I have no doubt that JJ Abrams would be involved somewhere in the decision making process, since it is his own production company contracted to make these three films.

157. NuFan - April 23, 2014

Will director Orci be more secretive than writer Orci?

158. Mike Barnett - April 23, 2014

Well, perhaps Bob Orci can practice the art of directing on one of his TV shows (H50, Sleepy Hollow).

159. Keachick (Rose) - April 23, 2014

Nobody has dumped on anything. Various writers have given their version of what it might be like to be in outer space, whether it be exploring and/or lost in the Delta Quadrant, or whether it has to do with fighting an alien defender/aggressor or whether it be about what crew do to pass the time (playing about in the holo suites) while going, even at warp, in the immense stretch that space can also be where there is very little of anything and no one.

I have enjoyed all the various iterations that the television series have provided, obviously some more than others, but I would not say that anyone has dumped on anything. Such hubris from posters is really starting to annoy me – a lot…:(!

160. Exverlobter - April 23, 2014

Those are bad news indeed.

I still hope for Rupert Wyatt as the director.

161. Phil - April 23, 2014

@153. Instead of sneering at anyone who doesn’t happen to share your hatred for the current version of Trek, why not actually plead your case, you know, one with hard facts instead of argument by exclusion. Sorry, arguing that because every single thing Bob has been associated with hasn’t won Oscars, Emmys, Grammys, or Tonys isn’t a defense – so have at it. Ahmed can demonstrate that….
– Because Bad Robot’s Star Trek has been a financial critical failure
– Because K/O television shows have continued to be ratings failures
– Because Bob Orci has written movies that consistently fail to preform in the box office
– Because Bob Orci’s association with Bad Robot has resulted in numerous failures for the production company
….can state, with clarity, that Mr. Orci is not a viable candidate for directing consideration of the upcoming Star Trek feature.

So, go ahead. Support the argument. All you have is opinion and a bit of conjecture. I’d understand if all you were voicing was opinion, but you aren’t. You’ve categorically stated the man is not qualified. Now prove it.

162. Exverlobter - April 23, 2014

As i said, i would prefer Rupert Wyatt, but if he’s not available even B-Grade directors like Jonathan Frakes would be more appropriate than Orci. Because Frakes has already years of directing-experience even though he never made a huge blockbuster. But Orci hasn’t done anything besides writing and producing.

163. TUP - April 23, 2014

Pros and Cons:

Pros:

– Seems to love and have a passion for Star Trek

– Seems to want Star Trek to be all it can be

– Seems to “know” and “get” Star Trek

Cons:

– Into Darkness was an epic disaster and the storytelling seemed indicative of writers who neither “know” nor “get” Star Trek.

So I’m torn.

164. Keachick (Rose) - April 23, 2014

#159 – May I, Phil –

– “Because Bad Robot’s Star Trek has been a financial critical failure”

Incorrect. Neither films have been critical financial failures. Both films have recovered all the money invested in their making and then some.

– “Because K/O television shows have continued to be ratings failures”

Some series have not rated as well as others. However, the real success of series like Fringe and Hawaii-Five-O have more than made up for other failures. Orci/Kurtzman successes can be traced back to some of the episodes written for the Xena – Warrior Princess and Hercules series – both cool, fun shows of the 90’s.

– “Because Bob Orci has written movies that consistently fail to preform in the box office”

Incorrect. His movies have done reasonably well, with some like the first two Transformer movies making heaps and heaps of dosh (obviously many audiences do not agree with those like Ahmed, like my own daughter…). Bob Orci and Alex Kurtzman have also been producers of films like The Proposal, one of my all time rom-com favourites, which have done rather well also.

– “Because Bob Orci’s association with Bad Robot has resulted in numerous failures for the production company”

Incorrect. The two Bad Robot Star Trek movies have been successful; his work being associated with the Fringe series has not harmed it.

Gosh, why am I not working in PR and getting good remuneration? and guess what, I have not lied or misrepresented anything.

I think, if Bob Orci has the appropriate credentials (what I talked about earlier), he is as viable a candidate for directing consideration as anybody else. Perhaps more so than a more experienced director who has had nothing to do with the production and writing of any Star Trek – prime or alternate universes.

My concern is more for Bob Orci. Once he is in the director’s chair, the “buck stops with him”. Given how vicious people can be, I just hope he is able and prepared, without compromising his good, nicer side too much – then again, he knows himself far better than I do…

165. Mike Barnett - April 23, 2014

161 TUP

STID is your definition of epic disaster? It made ~$450 million and probably made a ton more money on Pay TV, Cable TV, DVD/Blu Ray, streaming and downloads.
STID has a 87/90% rating on Rotten Tomatoes. Epic disaster? You’re nuts because the facts don’t back up your claim.

166. Keachick (Rose) - April 23, 2014

Bob Orci also has youth on his side. Youth does have some advantages here simply because the demands on a director of movies like this can be very demanding of one’s time and energy. The other directors that many keep promoting are a lot older. With age can come greater experience and wisdom, but not always.

167. Exverlobter - April 23, 2014

@163

It was not a financial disaster, but more of a critical-disaster.

168. Phil - April 23, 2014

@160. So, a shitty director is better then one on his rookie effort. It’s not a valid argument, as rookie directors have produced classics, and the so-called experienced directors have produced garbage…or years and years of mediocrity. You want a B grade director, I’m sure Stuart Baird would love a shot a redemption.

169. dmduncan - April 23, 2014

85. boborci – April 22, 2014

You are the talk of the town, Bob O!

170. Exverlobter - April 23, 2014

Jonathan Frakes at least made First Contact which is a good one.

171. Mike Barnett - April 23, 2014

165 Exverlobter

Critical disaster?? Show me the facts because Rotten Tomatoes has it at 87%/90& approval. Just the facts, man.

172. Mike Barnett - April 23, 2014

Per Box Office Mojo, Bob Orci written or produced movies generated more than $3.3 BILLION at the worldwide box office (adjusted for inflation).

$3.3 billion …. he has earned the right to direct ST3. I’d also like Bob to keep pushing CBS for a TV series after ST3. Bob would make a great showrunner for the next series. He has had plenty of successful TV series so he’s proven that he knows how to produce a popular TV show.

Give Bob the keys to the franchise. He’s one of us!!!!

173. jas_montreal - April 23, 2014

how the gods have fallen…

174. Disinvited - April 23, 2014

# 148. Ahmed – April 23, 2014

“Different times & very different budgets. Also, he at least made one movie before working on WOK, a movie that cost far less than TMP.” – Ahmed

Well, I’m already on record as expecting nuParamount to be asking for cost savings based on no new sets needed, yadda yadda, i.e. that old rationale old Paramount applied to TWoK.

And speaking of passive aggressive, have you read the reviews specifically addressing Meyer’s directing in TIME AFTER TIME?

At best, you are giving me reasons why you or I would have wanted Meyer to direct his Trek, but what I have never understood is why the suits at Paramount signed-off on him beyond possibly: “He’s cheap, and he’s available.”

I have always gotten the impression that Bennett was looking for a script doctor when they found Meyer. I never really understood the process of how he came to be the film’s director other than me making the assumption that he tied his skills to the directing chair as he did in his first feature? I know some sources credit Paramount’s Karen Moore with hiring him but I got mixed messages as to whether she first pursued him as a script fixer and then greenlit his directing, or she flat out thought he was the one to direct? Or maybe it was a case of killing two birds with one stone?

Even if they did pursue him as a director, foremost, they had to know he was a writer when they handed him their script. I wonder what their underlying expectations were?

Well, something to dig for…

175. ironhyde - April 23, 2014

I think he’d do well with Star Trek as a director. I was OK with Star Trek ’09 when he wrote it and liked what he brought. In fact, it was in my opinion, one of his best written pieces EVER. But Into Darkness was such a mess of hammy fanboy that I would now in fact PREFER Orci directing than writing. I would feel okay with him in the director’s chair, I’d like him to at least get the chance. As far as writing… hmm… i hope they other writers are keeping him in check ;)

176. Keachick (Rose) - April 23, 2014

#88 – I don’t think that Nicholas Meyer “got” Star Trek any more or any better than others have. Some of TUC was a failure, a truly embarrassing one – “See how they ate…” stuff. Holy moly.

I preferred how the characters were played in Star Trek V but I guess that can’t be said because that was William Shatner’s effort and not Leonard Nimoy and Nick Meyer’s. While Chekov or Scotty may have been shown to be a bit *silly* at times in Star Trek, they were not shown to be ignorant, rude or mean, which is what we saw in TUC.

177. Keachick (Rose) - April 23, 2014

Oh, for an edit function!

“While Chekov or Scotty may have been shown to be a bit *silly* at times in Star Trek, they were not shown to be ignorant, rude or mean, which is what we saw in TUC.” should read –

While Chekov, Scotty and the others may have been shown to be a bit *silly* at times in Star Trek V, they were not shown to be ignorant, rude or mean, which is what we saw in TUC.

178. Keachick (Rose) - April 23, 2014

#85 – Oh Bob! What do you think is going on?…:)

I strolled down the posts quickly, so I missed your wee post. So how’s it going for you upover these days? Exciting times…

179. Disinvited - April 23, 2014

# 148. Ahmed – April 23, 2014

Ah, it wasn’t a case of what he knew but WHO he knew:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/nicholas-meyer-recalls-making-star-88217

”When I suggested that without him there might never have been a “Star Trek” movie franchise, Meyer replied, “I would like to think so. I am, as I concede in the book, vain enough to want to think so. But I’m not 100% certain.”

Why not? “How many more scripts were they prepared to lay out money for to try to get a second ‘Star Trek’ movie if what I had done hadn’t worked?” Had Paramount been willing to keep on spending, he added, they’d have eventually come up with something.

Meyer’s childhood friend Karen Moore, then a Par exec, suggested that since he wanted to direct he should meet Harve Bennett, who was producing the second feature spinoff from Gene Roddenberry’s “Star Trek” TV series.

“That was sort of love at first sight. I didn’t really know what ‘Star Trek’ was. I might not have hung around to find out, I suppose, if I hadn’t liked him so much.”

After they spoke, Meyer saw the connection between “Star Trek” and C.S. Forrester’s novels about the English sea captain Horatio Hornblower. Having enjoyed those books as a teenager, Meyer understood “Star Trek” was really just Hornblower in space.

When he shared his Hornblower idea with William Shatner, Meyer recalled, Captain Kirk knew exactly what he meant.

Shatner (to Meyer): “Oh well, that’s what Gene always said it was.”

Not everything else went as smoothly for him with Shatner, who called the screenplay — rewritten by Meyer, who didn’t get a credit — a disaster. The trick to resolving Shatner’s unhappiness about how the script treated Kirk was that “when you actually broke it up into manageable pieces, what he was asking for was not that difficult or that extraordinary. In fact, it was probably 36 hours or something for me to turn it around.”” – “Nicholas Meyer recalls the making of ‘Star Trek’ II, IV, VI”, 2:47 PM PDT 8/28/2009 by Martin A. Grove, AP

180. Ahmed - April 23, 2014

@ 159. Phil – April 23, 2014

“Sorry, arguing that because every single thing Bob has been associated with hasn’t won Oscars, Emmys, Grammys, or Tonys isn’t a defense”

You like to make up stuff, don’t you? I’m not talking about his writings, the simple fact that Orci never directed anything in his life, not a TV episode or even short movie. If you were the CEO of a company, would you give someone like that a multimillion dollars project?

This whole argument that he is already familiar with filmmaking because he was there for years, therefore he is able to direct a movie, doesn’t make sense.

Second, we are talking about the 50th anniversary movie. We already have rookie writers & now you think it is a good idea to have a rookie director as well?

No wonder Paramount is cautious about this whole thing.

Question for you, show me one rookie director, who never directed anything at all, that was asked to direct a $150 million movie ? Go ahead!

181. Ahmed - April 23, 2014

@ 176. Disinvited – April 23, 2014

“Ah, it wasn’t a case of what he knew but WHO he knew”

A perfect example of “it’s not what you know but who you know”. Orci already has the blessing of his friend Abrams!! It’s good to have friends in high places, I guess :-)

182. John Whorfin - April 23, 2014

170. Mike Barnett “he has earned the right to direct”

No, he hasn’t. At all.

But you know who has? Alex Kurtzman.

Kurtzman has directed a solid feature (People Like Us) and episodic TV (Alias).

Orci hasn’t directed anything, ever. This sense of entitlement is incredibly absurd, and first-time directors are incredibly risky.

Why isn’t Kurtzman getting the gig? (And is this maybe why the two are splitting up? Hmmm.)

183. Jason - April 23, 2014

Please don’t kill Star Trek, this is horrible news. Orci should not touch this movie till he proves himself as a director. This will be the end of Star Trek as we know it.

184. Kevin - April 23, 2014

No disrespect to Mr. Orci, but any company would be stupid to hand over directing responsibility for a $200 million project (production and marketing) to a first time director.

He’s one of the best writers and producers of blockbusters in Hollywood and I loved his trek movies, but directing is a different skill that takes practice to get better. And JJ is making Star Wars so he will have little involvement in the movie despite what the studio will want us to believe.

185. P Technobabble - April 23, 2014

I think Bob would/will do a fine job in the director’s chair.
And I won’t bet several million bucks on it, but I think we’re gonna get that epic exploration movie we’ve asked for…

186. Keachick (Rose) - April 23, 2014

Well, Bob Orci is just lobbying to have his “hat put in the ring” when it comes time to actually select the film’s director. Only time will tell.

Yes, it is possible that Bob Orci may have garnered JJ Abrams’ approval for his desire to be director. This is not just a matter of knowing a person in a high place and frankly, Ahmed, the whole inference is mischievous and nasty. JJ Abrams and Bob Orci have worked together on the first two movies and on other projects so they know how they each work and what their strengths and weaknesses are as professional film makers.

This is conjecture on my part, although Bob Orci is free to confirm or deny, but how do we know that JJ Abrams may not have suggested that Bob have a go at directing. Abrams would have a far better idea of Orci’s talents and potential than any of us.

187. Ahmed - April 23, 2014

@182. Keachick (Rose)

“This is conjecture on my part, although Bob Orci is free to confirm or deny, but how do we know that JJ Abrams may not have suggested that Bob have a go at directing. Abrams would have a far better idea of Orci’s talents and potential than any of us.”

Well, we don’t know for sure. But going by what was reported it is Bob who is lobbying very hard to get the job.

Variety:

“Orci is currently laser focused on the upcoming “Star Trek 3.” He’s already been tapped to pen the picture along with Patrick McKay and John D. Payne, and he’s lobbying heavily to direct the production. The film’s co-producers, J.J. Abrams’ Bad Robot and David Ellison’s Skydance, appear to be in favor of Orci helming the film, but people familiar with the situation say that Paramount is being cautious.”

The Hollywood Reporter:

“Orci is spending more time with Trek and is even in talks to direct the third installment. (No negotiations are taking place just yet but the writer already has Abrams’ blessing.)”

188. Vultan - April 23, 2014

So if Orci and Kurtzman are splitting up, who gets Lindelof in the custody battle?

189. Aqua - April 23, 2014

Yay, and now if only they will stay away from future Star Trek endeavors.

190. Cygnus-X1 - April 23, 2014

184. Vultan – April 23, 2014

So if Orci and Kurtzman are splitting up, who gets Lindelof in the custody battle?

I’d guess the orphanage. Or JJ.

191. Ahmed - April 23, 2014

@ 184. Vultan – April 23, 2014

“So if Orci and Kurtzman are splitting up, who gets Lindelof in the custody battle?”

LOL, no one, he is one of the Leftovers ;)

192. dmduncan - April 23, 2014

184. Vultan – April 23, 2014

So if Orci and Kurtzman are splitting up, who gets Lindelof in the custody battle?

***

Like a gansta-rapper grabbing his crotch with both hands, Lindelof gets custody of himself.

193. Cygnus-X1 - April 23, 2014

If Bob is answering questions, what I’d really like to know is:

Are you gonna go my way?

No. That was a joke.

What I’d really like to know is, in terms of resume/job-interview, how are you selling yourself to Paramount when your contributions as writer of the last Trek project were not particularly well received or even particularly competent?

USUALLY, when someone asks for a promotion, it’s based upon excellent past performance. They ask for a promotion because they have reason to feel that they have EARNED a promotion.

But, I think it’s fair to say that most people—critics and fans alike—would not rate the script of STID as excellent past performance. Whatever people liked about STID, it certainly wasn’t the writing. If anything, people enjoyed STID in spite of the writing. And since you were one of the writers of STID, what, other than career ambition, are you putting forth in your job application to Paramount as rationale for why you should get the job instead of an experienced, talented director with an impressive track record who’s paid his dues and deserves a chance to shine on a big-budget feature?

194. dmduncan - April 23, 2014

177. Ahmed – April 23, 2014

You like to make up stuff, don’t you? I’m not talking about his writings, the simple fact that Orci never directed anything in his life, not a TV episode or even short movie. If you were the CEO of a company, would you give someone like that a multimillion dollars project?

***

As someone who HAS directed 5 short films of my own, I have to ask what you think is going to happen if Bob kicks out a short over a weekend.

You really think Bob doesn’t have the skills to turn out a coherent and well made short film?

And if he has that ability–which I argue that he does–will you then be on board with him as director? Does a few short films really make a difference?

It’s not a matter of ability. I think the complaints I am hearing against Bob have more to do with people’s fears of what might happen.

Bob doesn’t need to know how to run a camera, or build sets, or make costumes, or light a face. He will have the Hollywood union-paid experts handle all the technical details.

Bob needs the skills of a general manager and he needs to know how to talk to his actors. And given that Bob is SO easy to get along with, I don’t see that’s going to be a problem at all. As a producer with his own production company, Bob has been managing huge projects like this for years, and as a writer he’s been the single most important creative force for all the movies that he’s helped to write.

Directing is the next logical step. To be ready to direct Bob has to want to do the job. He wants to do it, apparently, and so I think he is ready.

Bob as director, calling the shots, will be worth it for Star Trek.

195. Vultan - April 23, 2014

#187

Ouch! Not a fan, I’m guessing. Yeah, me neither—of this whole team to be honest. But maybe the new writers can bring something… new.

Here’s hoping.

196. 750Mang - April 23, 2014

Fine. Let him direct, but please for the love of Nog, keep him out of the writing process.

197. nick - April 23, 2014

Go bob! I trust your passion & hope you get the chance to have fuller creative control.

198. dmduncan - April 23, 2014

190. Vultan – April 23, 2014

Ouch! Not a fan, I’m guessing. Yeah, me neither—of this whole team to be honest. But maybe the new writers can bring something… new.

***

Bob on his own IS something new.

Trying to predict what he will do as director, based on what he did as part of a 2, 3, or 4 man writing team where his decisions were not the only ones deciding outcomes, is not fair.

He deserves a shot. Let’s give him some support.

199. Jonboc - April 23, 2014

#189 “…. As a producer with his own production company, Bob has been managing huge projects like this for years, and as a writer he’s been the single most important creative force for all the movies that he’s helped to write.

Directing is the next logical step. To be ready to direct Bob has to want to do the job. He wants to do it, apparently, and so I think he is ready.”

Agreed, he knows the mechanics of the business inside and out….I dont’t get these naysayers who act like he just got off the Greyhound in Hollywood last week. I bet Bob would have a great creative eye behind the camera and I hope he gets the chance to shine n that regard, he’s earned it.

200. Jack - April 23, 2014

If you get the job, Bob, stay off this darned site (and all other fan sites). Don’t try to please fans, it’s impossible and a waste of timr. You don’t need us to validate you or your work. What’ll please everyone is a good, solid film, period.

Btw, the magic sci fi healing blood was a problem, Keachick, because it was easy/lazy not because it wasn’t sci fi enough. Everything got tied up too neatly, just like the first one.

201. Jack - April 23, 2014

193. Yep, they said the same thing about Shatner before Trek V. :)

202. Robert - April 23, 2014

I wish he would hold a contest on what Star Trek 13’s plot should be.

I am more than willing to enter.

203. c - April 23, 2014

Bob, Amaury Nolasco as a Star Fleet Captain that likes Uhura, let’s see Spock Jealous and Rosalyn Sanchez as a Vulcan that must mate with Spock to fix a problem in the gene pool, Uhura not so jealous and Spock is curious about why not…

Not what the movie is about but it’s in there…

204. Vultan - April 23, 2014

#192

Sorry, no. I have to see something of his directorial style before I can support him. A short film. A Snickers commercial. Something.

Even Shatner had directed a few episodes of TJ Hooker before… well… you know. That movie he did.

And Wally Pfister, his first movie as director is out now and not doing so well. Maybe he should’ve been taking more notes while working for Nolan.

205. The Pastor - April 23, 2014

#196 Garth 1 vote so far

206. The Pastor - April 23, 2014

#196 Travel to a savage world, escape by worm hole – pure luck or Grace by an unknown power- 1 vote

207. ScifiKabbal - April 23, 2014

Though I’m unquestionably in favor of Orci directing, I think that Paramount should have him direct a Star Trek short film similar to what Marvel has done with their one-shots. This would enable him to offer proof of his ability in the director’s chair to both the studio and the fans. Even better, it would expand the Trek universe for fans in a way not permitted by the films. Maybe it could be about Spock Prime on New Vulcan or a day in the life of Keenser.

208. Ahmed - April 23, 2014

@ 199. ScifiKabbal – April 23, 2014

“I think that Paramount should have him direct a Star Trek short film similar to what Marvel has done with their one-shots. This would enable him to offer proof of his ability in the director’s chair to both the studio and the fans. Even better, it would expand the Trek universe for fans in a way not permitted by the films. ”

Now, that is a very interesting idea. I would love to see Star Trek one-shots short films that explore other aspects of Trek universe that we usually don’t see in the movies.

209. Endeavour crew - April 23, 2014

He said it two weeks ago- whether it is the final script I do not know but one can assume these things have revisions right through filming………

Either way it’s nice to know we are boldly going.

Where no Director has Gone Before……

lol

210. Admiral_Bumblebee - April 24, 2014

As long as he creates an epic movie for the 50th anniversary with some of the old cast returning and by bringing back William Shatner as Prime Kirk in a major role I would be all for Mr. Orci directing the movie.
Imagine Shatner, Nimoy, Stewart, Frakes, Spiner… together with the new cast in one epic adventure (maybe against the Borg!). This would be fitting for the 50th anniversary of Trek.

You hear me Mr. Orci?

“Mr. Orci, I have never prayed to you before. I have no tongue for it. No one, not even you, will remember if we were good men or bad. Why we fought, or why we died. All that matters is that William Shatner has to return to Star Trek as Prime Kirk. That’s what’s important! Valor pleases you, Mr. Orci… so grant me one request. Grant me William Shatner as Prime Kirk! And if you do not listen, then to HELL with you!”

211. Bill Peters - April 24, 2014

Should point out that before First Contact Johnathan Franks hadn’t Directed a Big Flim, the problem I see here is many people who don’t want Bob to Direct don’t want him to do so cause they think someone who has worked on Trek and other TV/Movies as a Writer isn’t Good Enough because somehow writing the Flim and directing it are two different thing ( don’t think it would be hard to Translation inbetween the two) others simply want to go back to past Glories without thinking about what New Trek has given us, like two Successful films and a Franchise that has Interest in the General Public.

The Man is all ready working on the Script and know what he wants done for flim, so if he has JJ and others Support on the Project, he should be allowed to do it, this isn’t as risky as taking a regular Joe off the street and asking them to direct.

212. Bill Peters - April 24, 2014

Yes we are Aware it is the 50th but I am sure Bob and the Writers will do it Justice not throw something out that is really bad, but for the 50th they are going to have to Balance the wants of the Fans and also have a Story that will pull in General Audances, you have to balance the two not just one or the other, If we want more Trek Flims after this one which we all do we need to make sure to support this one.

213. Bill Peters - April 24, 2014

Also there were Subtitle hints that Orci understand the larger Trek Universe in STID, the fact he pulled things out in the background that Trek fans would be Able to Connect to past Series/Flims was Brillant. Section 31 exists in DS9, Hinted in ENT, and now in STID, the provance that the Crew was in on Q’onos IS the place Chancellor Martok will be born in the DS9 Timeline, he used References to Characters from TOS such as Carol Marcus Mother, there was enough there to show he knows how to show Connections to past Treks without beating it over the heads of people who don’t know Trek.

214. Aurore - April 24, 2014

@ 100

“…Anything new going on around here?”

__________

Given what was said regarding Star Trek Into Darknesss , namely that it was the highest-grossing movie of the franchise, I was curious to know who would direct the next Star Trek.

So, reading that you wanted to direct it was new ( to me).

As was the following (shared on You Tube), which I listened to a few days ago :

“Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry’s taped address to Owen Ogletree and the Atlanta Star Trek Society convention in 1984 where he discusses the fourth Star Trek movie, science fiction in general, and his prevalent optimism for the future of humanity. The only copy of this tape was just recently rediscovered by Atlanta Star Trek Society founder Owen Ogletree.”

In the address, there were recommendations concerning Star Trek IV, and more* :

Link if authorized, here :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ3Bwo8xk4w

___________

*(Starts at 17 : 41) :

…In my opinion, science fiction can be a potent force in helping us clean up this planet, and, helping us move on out into space. It is not doing it at present in film because we are on sort of a cycle of science fiction being military.

And, for me personally, having been in the military, I trhink it’s nonsense……Science fiction is much too broad and exciting a field to be caught up forever in a cycle of “Slam Bam”, “Let’s have space battles with the bad guys”.

I think that most science fiction films that are being made, right now, would be much better films if they took a million dollars out of their optical effects, and, put it into story, and into acting, and, casting, and, that sort of thing.

I would like to see science fiction and imaginative writing live up to the exciting thing it can be.

As Ray Bradbury once said, science fiction is one of the last places in our society that philosophers can range as freely as he or she wants to do. And, I think that’s what science fiction should try to do…

Gene Roddenberry

215. Aurore - April 24, 2014

@ 214. Correction.

And, for me personally, having been in the military, I trhink it’s nonsense……Science fiction is much too broad and exciting a field to be caught up forever in a cycle of “Slam Bam”, “Let’s have space battles with the bad guys”.

Should have read :

And, for me personally, having been in the military, I think it’s nonsense……Science fiction is much too broad and exciting a field to be caught up forever in a cycle of “Slam Bam”, “Let’s have space battles with the bad guys”.

216. Mr Mike - April 24, 2014

Great news! Every decision that I’ve heard JJ made to alter the script or that Bob would have done differently, I’ve always thought Bob’s inclinations and ideas were better. Hopefully Paramount gets out of the way and lets Bob take control of Star Trek for this movie and into the future.

217. Admiral_Bumblebee - April 24, 2014

I believe that if they would advertise the new Trek movie with returning cast of William Shatner, Leonard Nimoy, Patrick Stewart, Brent Spiner… for the 50th anniversary, the people would freak out and flock to the cinemas!

It will be the same with Star Wars. When they officially announce that Mark Hamill, Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher will be back for Episode 7, this movie is set for a huge success.

So why not do the same with Star Trek? Bring back the old heroes for one last epic ride.

218. SoonerDave - April 24, 2014

I can’t fathom that Paramount would hand the reins of a tentpole franchise like Trek to an *entirely unproven* director as his *very first* shot behind the camera.

I guess Leonard Nimoy pulled it off, but somehow I think he brought a much more measured sense of “direction” (no pun intended) to his effort.

Oh well…que sera sera. I guess, more broadly, I’m glad to hear *something* going on about Trek N+1.

219. Monastery - April 24, 2014

Seriously? On the job training ON SUCH A MAJOR TENT-POLE MOVIE?

The only thing more laughable is a community organizer and VERY junior senator becoming President of the United States.

Those of you who believed Obama was qualified have no business denouncing Orci’s lack of credentials.

For the guy who said that Frakes had not directed a movie until First Contract…. please note that Frakes had experience directing Trek EPISODES. And First Contact did not have the budget that Trek 3 will have.

220. AJ - April 24, 2014

I am almost in the “please let it die” camp at this point.

STID was already more than a hop and a skip in that direction.

221. boy - April 24, 2014

please where is Steven Spielberg?

222. dscott - April 24, 2014

“217. Admiral_Bumblebee – April 24, 2014
I believe that if they would advertise the new Trek movie with returning cast of William Shatner, Leonard Nimoy, Patrick Stewart, Brent Spiner… for the 50th anniversary, the people would freak out and flock to the cinemas!”

– not “people”, just us nerds… and that didn’t do so well did it?

223. Seriously Disgusted - April 24, 2014

I’ve been sitting here wondering “how could Trek get any worse than the last four movies?”.

Thankyou, Paramount, for answering that for me.

224. Phil - April 24, 2014

@217. No they wouldn’t. No one, anywhere is campaigning ‘Do you know what the next movie needs? – more Dr. Crusher!’…

Except Gates McFadden. Garret Wang and Michael Dorn would be all over it, though….

225. Silvereyes - April 24, 2014

161 Phil

@153. Instead of sneering at anyone who doesn’t happen to share your hatred for…

I neither sneered nor do I hate anyone. An opinion, by definition, doesn’t require facts or justification. That’s why it’s called an opinion… And buddy, I have nothing to prove to you nor do I require your approval so calm down and go back to your seat.

226. Mike Barnett - April 24, 2014

The 007 franchise was very successful with their 50th anniversary film Skyfall. And guess what, there was no distracting cameo’s of previous James Bond actors. I think with nuTrek currently in the alternate universe, it would really take me out of the movie if they shoe-horned Shatner, Stewart, Spiner in there just for the sake of the 50th anniversary….unless they somehow come up with a very logical SciFi-ish vehicle for doing that. I don’t have a good enough imagination to come up with something that would work but maybe the pros in Hollywood can do it.

I’m very confident Orci & his writers will deliver an awesome 50th anniversary screenplay. I also think with JJ focused on Star Wars for the next several years, Orci saw an opportunity to jump in and take over the Star Trek franchise. Can you blame him for trying??? If I was younger and with his track record in the business I would go for it too.

Paramount may be pausing on giving him the director’s chair because of his unfortunate posts on Trekmovie and Twitter last year. He has apologized for that many times so I’m ready for Orci 2.0 to move on and make us happy in 2016 (or so).

227. 16309A - April 24, 2014

Lets just get moving on this! I want a 50th Anniversary movie! Don’t blow it!

228. Dswynne - April 24, 2014

Wish Orci well.

229. Disinvited - April 24, 2014

#218. SoonerDave – April 24, 2014

I believe Meyer is the better fit as he got WarnerBros to let him direct solely because he wouldn’t allow them to option TIME AFTER TIME unless they let him direct with no other experience. Also, he got TWoK in spite of his miniscule body of work of one because his childhood friend, Karen Moore, was the Paramount Executive doing the hiring.

Nimoy, on the other hand, had directed 4 times. One being a TV MOVIE:

T.J. Hooker (TV Series) (1 episode)
– The Decoy (1983)

The Powers of Matthew Star (TV Series) (1 episode)
– The Triangle (1982)

Vincent (TV Movie) 1981

Rod Serling’s Night Gallery (TV Series) (1 episode)
– Death on a Barge (1973)

Frakes had directed 16 TV episodes and Shatner 10.

230. Ahmed - April 24, 2014

@ 211. Bill Peters – April 24, 2014

“Should point out that before First Contact Johnathan Franks hadn’t Directed a Big Flim”

It is Frakes, not Franks! He directed 16 TV episodes before he was asked to do First Contact.

“the problem I see here is many people who don’t want Bob to Direct don’t want him to do so cause they think someone who has worked on Trek and other TV/Movies as a Writer isn’t Good Enough because somehow writing the Flim and directing it are two different thing ( don’t think it would be hard to Translation inbetween the two)”

Writing & directing are two very different things. As a writer, you focus on one task, writing the script. A director on the other hand oversees artistic and technical aspects of the film, such as casting, script editing, shot composition, shot selection, locations, editing & directing actors once the film is in production.

231. Exverlobter - April 24, 2014

Hey Bob, if you really will take over the directors chair, please do NOT get rid off the lens-flares. They are controversial i know, but i think they are really a cool effect.

232. Elias Javalis - April 24, 2014

Bob take the leap,

Spock said to Saavic, “for everything there is a first time”!

233. AyanEva - April 24, 2014

I think Bob would do a good job. I actually think he’d serve Trek better as a director, rather than a writer because he’d be engaging his tendency to focus on details in a very productive way. I sometimes feel like his scripts go through a process of being heavily edited because of excessive details but then they end up not being detailed enough. I’m just guessing here.

234. Disinvited - April 24, 2014

#230. Ahmed – April 24, 2014

“Writing & directing are two very different things.” – Ahmed

While true, it wasn’t that long ago (or is it?) in my aged life that directors were as undervalued as writers are now, and certainly in regards to the SF genre the studios never expected to get an box office bump from plastering some director’s name larger than everyone else’s on the poster. That was reserved for the producer “A George Pal Production” for example. And need I remind all that Orci isn’t just “some writer” as the industry, and public for that matter, sometimes find so easy to dismiss; he IS in fact a competent SF PRODUCER too.

And correct me if I am mistaken, but isn’t the current preferred studio darling what is referred to as the writer/director?

235. Bill Peters - April 24, 2014

234 I believe it is Correct. I think Bob should be given the chance he knows the Material and he knows what he is doing, it is better to be in house and have someone JJ Approves of then, some Director who may not give the Feel of the last two movies to this one.

236. Z3R0B4NG - April 24, 2014

the real news to me is that there will be a Venom Movie!!!

love the Marvel stuff

that JJ-Trek stuff is like 3 places behind Marvel as far as my care-o-meter goes these days :-/

237. Phil - April 24, 2014

@225. Actually, there should be some basis in reason for it. The tiny number of people complaining to high heaven that Bob shouldn’t be considered to direct are doing so on a personal bias. If an opinion, any opinion, is valid, then he shouldn’t be considered because he likes oranges and I don’t, I prefer Corona Lights and he like Dos Equis, and I like redheads and he prefers blonds, the bastard.

So, if a resume lands on my desk, with a very long list of successful writing, producing, executive producing credits, and letters of referrals from individuals whom I’ve worked with and respect endorsing the individual, then yes, (s)he would be considered a candidate for the job. The argument is further enhanced by the candidate having a strong knowledge of the background material they are looking to direct. The lack of a previous credited directing gig would be cause for concern, and I’d expect the candidate to present a solid argument why their previous experience within the industry is cause for consideration. All that seems to be occurring, we are just waiting on the decision.

That is an opinion based on reason. I’m still waiting on someone to dissect why the mans professional experience should not be considered, and no one has stepped up to offer anything. At all.

238. THX-1138 - April 24, 2014

Orci directing his first ever movie and it being at least somewhat associated with the 50th anniversary doesn’t sit well with me. I am not a fan of his writing, and I’m not a fan of the last Trek movie at all.

I mean, good luck, and all. I hope it doesn’t turn into clown shoes.

239. Bill Peters - April 24, 2014

I think a lot of of the people who don’t want Bob to Direct are doing so casue of hate for STID or for the last to Films in General, they have that right but I think we must take into Consideration that he has been one of the Driving Forces behind the last two very successful Trek Movies and should be given the Chance to Direct, JJ is most lieky Excucive Prouducing and will be able to help with the Edit Process, I don’t think him not having Directed should Discredit him.

240. Silvereyes - April 24, 2014

237 Phil

“I’m still waiting on someone to dissect why the mans professional experience should not be considered, and no one has stepped up to offer anything. At all”

Phil, Orci has done nothing in the past which leads me to believe he would be a good candidate as director. I didn’t like either of the last 2 ST movies and Transformers was written for school children… and he has never directed before.

241. Phil - April 24, 2014

@240. All you had to say is “I don’t like..” then stop.

I’m not a fan of Michael Jackson, of his style of music. I’m smart enough to know the difference between personal preference and professional qualifications. The man was a talented singer, dancer, songwriter, regardless of how I felt about pop music. It also qualified him to pursue whatever other creative endeavors he chose to pursue. That doesn’t make him a talentless has, as a small number of people wish to imply about Orci.

So, you choose to ignore his resume. Good for you. I’m still waiting for someone to explain why that resume should not be considered.

242. SoonerDave - April 24, 2014

@229

“I believe Meyer is a better fit.”

Sorry, but Meyer is entirely wrong for two reasons. One, this isn’t *his* kind of Trek anymore. It just isn’t. That die has been cast. Second, Bennett got Meyer to do TWOK on the cheap because there were virtually *no* expectations for it following TMP. They couldn’t afford any “better” name, and they already had been stung by what a “name” director had accomplished (whether you put the blame for TMP’s failings at Wise’s feet or not, surely that was at least part of the sentiment if you’re the studio coming out of it).

Meyer’s time has passed. If they *really* want to get him, ooookay, hardly a deal-breaker, but it just doesn’t seem very likely.

243. Cygnus-X1 - April 24, 2014

161. Phil – April 23, 2014

So, go ahead. Support the argument. All you have is opinion and a bit of conjecture. I’d understand if all you were voicing was opinion, but you aren’t. You’ve categorically stated the man is not qualified. Now prove it.

You want Silvereyes to prove that Bob Orci is not qualified to do a job that he’s never done before?

Come on, Phil. You know that’s an impossible request.

But, how about this:

What critics and fans liked about STID was, by and large, the production values and aspects of the directing. Certainly people enjoyed the action scenes, and I think that most people would agree that they were very effectively directed by JJ Abrams. The production values likewise are attributable mostly to JJ Abrams. All of the neat, old-school FX tricks — that was all JJ.

However, based on the critical reviews and fan responses, people tended to find the writing in STID lacking. From the critical reviews and comments made at this site, I think it’s fair to characterize the writing of STID as being anywhere from sub-par to woefully lacking. And the writing was primarily the purview of Bob Orci (and Alex). Yes, Bob has a producer credit, and yes JJ has a writing credit, and yes there were contributions from others—there was less division of labor on STID and more overlapping participation—but my understanding is that JJ was the one behind the camera primarily making the movie, whereas the contributions of Bob (and Alex) were primarily on the page and relating to the story being told rather than to how that story was being told/shown which was more JJ’s job.

And now, Bob is applying for JJ’s job.

But, Bob didn’t do his own job particularly well last time (or the time before, as has been discussed previously in very specific detail). In fact, Paramount has hired two new writers (McKay and Payne) to do the job that Bob and Alex used to do.

So, what rationale is there now to advance Bob to JJ’s position, when Bob hasn’t been doing his own job particularly well, and when what people tend to like about the BR Trek movies has been the past job performance of JJ and not Bob?

If anything, it would make the most sense for people who are fans of ST09 and STID to be lobbying for JJ Abrams to direct BR Trek 3. With JJ doing what he does well, and the writing—which has been the weakest link in the BR Trek movies heretofore—now being done by two new writers (McKay and Payne) one would have reason to expect an improvement in the upcoming product, wouldn’t you agree?

Hiring two new writers and then giving the directing job to the guy who wasn’t holding down his previous job well enough wouldn’t seem to make much sense, at least not from the Paramount point of view. I mean, can you imagine running your own company that way? Would you hire two new account managers to replace/assist someone who wasn’t performing well enough, and then PROMOTE the guy who wasn’t doing well enough as account manager to director of sales???

244. Silvereyes - April 24, 2014

241 Phil

“I’m not a fan of Michael Jackson, of his style of music. I’m smart enough to know the difference between personal preference and professional qualifications.”

Precisely. Orci doesn’t have the professional qualifications for the job. Having written movies (and in my opinion not very well), does not give him the qualifications to be a director, especially not an excellent director which is what a 50th anniversary Star Trek movie deserves.

Thank you for helping me clarify my point.

245. Cygnus-X1 - April 24, 2014

P.S. And, yes, I realize that JJ has moved on to Star Wars, his true love, and is not a candidate for the job of director of BR Trek 3. But, my God, look at how many talented directors there are out there with impressive resumes. Paramount has hired two new writers. Does it really make sense to promote the writer you’ve just (largely) replaced to director?

246. Anthony Thompson - April 24, 2014

Hey, where is: MJ – The Grand Return??? Do we have to wait for MJ – The Grand Return, Part Deux? Or perhaps MJ – The Grander Return? His wisdom and knowledge are sorely missed.

247. Mike Barnett - April 24, 2014

@ 246
He’s on Triple Secret Probation.

248. Kenji - April 24, 2014

@230

Without disagreeing with you on the differences between directing and writing, as a film writer Orci would have been on the set giving rewrites on an almost daily basis. He would have been working intimately with Abrams.

Also you are not giving much credit to Orci as a TV producer. TV producing is not that different from film directing in that films run their critical decisions through the director, whereas TV shows are run by their producers – each TV director supervises a particular shoot and edit cycle (e.g. one week prep, one week shoot, one week post) but doesn’t get to cast the leads, establish a tone, or have right of final cut.

In that sense, TV producers have their hands in all aspects of showbiz.

I think therefore that it is fully plausible for Orci to direct the third iteration of an established franchise.

Does it make me nervous? Yes. Of course. I would worry that Orci the director might be too indulgent of Orci the screenwriter, or that, like a number of first time directors, he goes a bit bananas trying to put his stamp on the art of cinema itself.

249. Phil - April 24, 2014

@246. We are waiting on MJ – I’m Sorry, and Chowing Down on a Big Ole Slab of Humble Pie.

250. Vultan - April 24, 2014

I guess we now know which writer came up with the cadet to captain story line…

;-)

251. Red Dead Ryan - April 24, 2014

I see that Ahmed is still posting snarky comments claiming Bob Orci isn’t qualified!!!!

Yeah, Bob doesn’t have any direct directing experience, but one can’t discount the possibility (and high probability) of him studying J.J Abrams techniques and style during the making of the first two films. I seem to remember Bob mentioning a few times here that he was on set during the filming of the movies while working on the script.

252. Phil - April 24, 2014

@244. No professional qualifications?? Sorry, you don’t get to yank a portion of my comment out of context to support your bias. Now, support your argument. Where is the list of shows he’s produced that were all cancelled after a couple of episodes because they were horrible, where are all the movies that tanked in the box office? Produce some evidence that suggests Bad Robot knows it was a mistake hiring him. Show us where he was fired, or didn’t collaborate or work well with his producers and directors.

There’s a world of difference between ‘I’d prefer someone else’ and ‘The mans not qualified’. Stick to the former, because so far, you’re doing a lousy job supporting the latter argument. I’ll take it a step further – that Paramount is approaching this cautiously, that demonstrates due diligence on their part – so, if they do select Orci for the project, it’s further evidence that the resume you are dismissing was an important factor in determining qualification.

253. Phil - April 24, 2014

@243. So, by your logic, the FX guy should be hired to direct. Funny how the people opposed to his (potentially) getting the nod only have straw man arguments to support their position.

Does that mean Paramount is taking a change hiring him? Of course they are, no one, myself included is suggesting otherwise. But if you higher a director, say, Spielberg, you’re also gambling you’ll get Schindlers List quality instead of 1941 lack of quality. The ‘anyone but Bob’ argument is still waiting for some legitimate support…

254. crazydaystrom - April 24, 2014

I’m curious. Does anyone here know what biggest budget of a film project directed by someone with no directing credits AT ALL is? Pfister’s Transcendence is an estimated 100 million. That film isn’t doing very well with critics, GA, or box office. I haven’t seen it yet but still plan to. But I digress. The next Trek film will probably have a budget at least 50 million more than that. It really is hard to imagine a studio risking 150 million or more with a new director. But if they do that would have to be a record, I wager.

Maybe Bob Orci can do a good or even great job as a director. And if he does get the chair that’s what I would hope for – that he would do a good to great job of giving us a good or even great Star Trek movie. But wow! A directing job the size of a tentpole summer franchise movie…Star Trek!?! Wow! I’m an agnostic but I say – God help Bob. God help Star Trek. And God help US!

Wow! smh!

I AM an optimist though and I know things could turn out alright with Bob directing but if I were betting good hard-earned money I would have to bet against Bob, with a large part of me hoping I lose.

255. enterprise1965 - April 24, 2014

Isn’t Nick Myer or Nimoy available?

256. crazydaystrom - April 24, 2014

246. Anthony Thompson
“Hey, where is: MJ – The Grand Return??? Do we have to wait for MJ – The Grand Return, Part Deux? Or perhaps MJ – The Grander Return? His wisdom and knowledge are sorely missed.”

Ha! His “wisdom” is sorely remembered! Ha!

257. Silvereyes - April 24, 2014

252 Phil

The answer to all the questions you ask is: because STID sucks!

258. Silvereyes - April 24, 2014

252 Phil

Why don’t YOU support your argument with something else than hot gas? What makes YOU think he would be a good director?

He writes two movies that are crap (plus the transformers movies, at least)?

Maybe my standards are higher than yours. When I get handed sh*t on a platter I don’t say thank you.

259. Anthony Thompson - April 24, 2014

256. crazydaystrom

LOL. And let’s not forget what a unifier and healer he was, too. : )

260. Phil - April 24, 2014

@258. I have, and I’m not in the habit of repeating myself to people who can’t be bothered to read it. I’ve presented the pro’s, cons, and acknowledged that Paramount is 100% correct in it’s due diligence. All you’ve done is whine about it.

Tell you what, as you can’t support your argument, why don’t you toss out a couple of suggestions, and I’ll be happy to play devils advocate with them. It’ll give you time to come up with something other then repeating ‘anyone but Bob’ that might actually have some substance to it.

261. Silvereyes - April 24, 2014

260 I’ve been presenting cons throughout my posts, so have 50 others. People disagree with you. Deal with it.

262. Keachick (Rose) - April 24, 2014

#243 – “But, Bob didn’t do his own job particularly well last time (or the time before, as has been discussed previously in very specific detail). In fact, Paramount has hired two new writers (McKay and Payne) to do the job that Bob and Alex used to do.”

In your opinion. Paramount disagrees, since K/O Paper Products is still the main writing team. Bob is still doing the job he has always done in relation to these Star Trek movies. The fact that two new writers have been brought on was most likely a K/O initiative.

Alex Kurtzman is not going to be so involved in the writing and production process, because he is extending himself professionally, ie directing another film. Bob Orci hopes to do the same because it is his time. However, he wants to remain intimately involved in the making of another film for one of his beloved franchises, Star Trek!

This is not hard to work out.

263. THX-1138 - April 24, 2014

What qualifications–real, tangible DIRECTORIAL qualifications do you perceive Bob Orci to have, Phil?

I am a pretty decent musician. I have done many performances and recordings. I have played with many well known artists including Grammy winners and those with multiple top 10 recordings. I attended one of the premier music schools in the country, if not the world.

But none of that qualifies me to conduct a symphony orchestra.

264. Phil - April 24, 2014

@261. 50 others? Are we reading the same thread? Most folks posting here seem to be cautiously optimistic to very supportive. Paramount seems to be giving the decision due diligence, so we will wait.

Of course, there will be disagreement. There are folks who oppose mom, apple pie, and the flag. Gotta complain about something, I suppose, some people choose to be negative, I’ll choose to be positive. Bob has the qualifications. So do others….and I suspect the universe shall unfold as it should.

You are free to keep beating the ‘anyone but Bob’ drum if you choose, but if you are looking to make your parade of complain a bit longer, you still need to come up with something better then ‘because I said so’ as a reason to jump on the bandwagon….

265. Keachick (Rose) - April 24, 2014

#240 – Silvereyes – “I didn’t like either of the last 2 ST movies and Transformers was written for school children…”

Of course, the Transformers was written for school children and done in a way that would likely appeal to kiddults. The Transformers were TOYS aimed at children (mostly boys) aged between 8 and 12 years and a childrens’ cartoon TV series about these transformers. That is what the films are based on.

What I have found unbelievable and what defies any kind of genuine understanding and indeed maturity is that so-called adults are supposedly so upset at how the Transformers movies have played, especially the first two, which are the best btw (and both written by K/O – unlike the later ones) because they were not adult enough. The target audience was never aimed at adults. If a few adults happened to enjoy these films, then that’s a bonus.

You are calling out writers for actually doing what they were asked and paid to do – write a story about some Transformer TOYS and put it on the big screen. They did that and those films have made a small fortune for the studio, which is, btw, Paramount Pictures, the same company that owns the Star Trek movie franchise.

What you have expressed, along with others, are personal opinions of what you think about the movies that Bob Orci has been involved with. However, Paramount Pictures will be looking at a much bigger picture and that picture does NOT support your opinionated arguments.

Your stupidity, ignorance and arrogance are undeniable.
No. You deal with it.

266. Silvereyes - April 24, 2014

265 that is really uncalled for. I suggest you stop thinking with your emotions and reconsider insulting people you know nothing about.

267. Phil - April 24, 2014

@263. Perhaps not, now. But someday, maybe, perhaps you might? Perhaps you might want to produce, or write a musical? If you find a protégé, would it not be an honor and a joy to nurture that talent? It seems to me that creative endeavors are not static, you learn, grow, take on new challenges. When you picked up your instrument of choice, I’m guessing it took some lessons to master the basics, then you started to improve and grow with practice, correct? Anytime someone inspires to improve, there always has to be that first step.

So, Bob’s gotten to that point in his life where he wants to direct. Setting aside for the moment the ‘pop vs. classical culture’ argument, the guy has a resume that suggests the range of professional growth, development, and financial success of his projects would qualify him to make the transition. He also seems to have the recommendation of his peers to support the request. To that end, it’s nothing ventured, nothing gained if he doesn’t lobby for the job. I’ve no doubt that others are being considered as well, and, as I’ve mentioned before, I’d expect that whatever evaluation is going on to take into consideration the qualifications of others, and the strengths and weaknesses of Bob’s qualifications. If, at the end of the process, he’s told no, then I’d expect him to try again on some future project.

He brings as much to the table as any other candidate at this point. We don’t know who else is being considered. There seems to be enough going on in the Trek universe that he’ll find something to do. The guys a fan, and an advocate. He’s at least earned the right to be considered.

268. Keachick (Rose) - April 24, 2014

#200 – Hi ya, Jack. How’s it going for you?

Bob can come here if he wants, but he needs to be careful, because reading all these posts could put his head into a real spin…:)

“Btw, the magic sci fi healing blood was a problem, Keachick, because it was easy/lazy not because it wasn’t sci fi enough. Everything got tied up too neatly, just like the first one.”

Not for me.

I think the problem STID has, along with so many other films, is that of the mindsets of writers, producers, directors and the studios’ “big chiefs”. It is the long held notion that the only kind of real excitement has to come in the form of chases, guns firing, explosions, crashes, punch ups etc but this is simply not true.

For me, the real nail biting inducing suspense would have been showing Dr McCoy’s battle to revive Kirk and bring him back to health, but that got glossed over in favour of a silly, longwinded chase and ugly fight scene between Spock and Khan.

A better way to go would have been to shorten the chase/fight scene – Spock and Uhura could have surprised Khan in a quick and precise fashion, with Spock screaming “Khaaan!” followed by “I may not break rules but I can break bones!” as Spock does so. Khan is still very much alive.

The longer scenes would be showing Dr McCoy’s staunch determination to see his friend, his captain, come to life and survive, with the help of this unusual blood from the same man who caused Kirk’s demise. Quite fitting, really. It would have given Karl Urban more to get his “teeth into” and had Bones/McCoy express his obvious potential of being a very fine, creative and dedicated medical physician.

Another option is to leave this movie on a sort of cliff hanger, as in does Khan’s “magic blood” bring Kirk back to life or not? After all, a human is a more complex species than a tribble…

I am not a big fan of cliff hangers, but it might have a kind of grace, harmonizing, adjustment? (if these are the right words) because the film Star Trek: Generations should have ended on a cliff hanger – ie Does prime Kirk survive the injuries due to the bridge collapsing on him or not? We should have found out in the next movie from Captain Picard – or not.

In the alternate universe, this could have been what happens to the younger alt Kirk, given that it did not happen for the older prime Kirk.

269. Ahmed - April 24, 2014

@ 251. Red Dead Ryan – April 24, 2014

“I see that Ahmed is still posting snarky comments claiming Bob Orci isn’t qualified!”

Care to enlighten me here, please? What make Orci qualified to direct a major movie without having any prior experience as a DIRECTOR.

Seriously in what universe do you give a $150 million movie to someone who NEVER direct before ? And that goes to anyone, not just Orci.

No one sane will give someone that kind of job, it will make sense if he started with a small movie or even a TV episodes & take it from there.

270. Keachick (Rose) - April 24, 2014

Silvereyes – Touche!

I am often a mirror. It is you who is writing emotionally about what you personally do or in this case, don’t like. I found some of what you have written about the efforts of others (people you don’t really know either) stupid and insulting and have simply said so. Deal with it!

271. Ahmed - April 24, 2014

@ 246. Anthony Thompson – April 24, 2014

“Hey, where is: MJ – The Grand Return??? Do we have to wait for MJ – The Grand Return, Part Deux? Or perhaps MJ – The Grander Return? His wisdom and knowledge are sorely missed.”

His wisdom LOL

The guy was banned because he faked 8 aliases, guess he wanted to spread his “wisdom and knowledge”!

Here is the message from Matt Wright about that

==================
633. Matt Wright – March 31, 2014

Hi all,

Just to be clear, MJ was banned because of trolling and sockpuppeting.

I don’t want to get into a bunch of mud slinging about it since we’ve managed to be a calmer place since then. But yes MJ was using up to eight different aliases to railroad his point since May 2013 (when STID was released). He has since apologized and I’ve had a good exchange with him over e-mail, he understands my reasons for keeping him off the comments for now.

http://trekmovie.com/2014/03/16/trek-3-writer-speaks-about-trek-for-the-first-time/

272. Keachick (Rose) - April 24, 2014

This whole thread is round and round on some insane merry-go-round. At the end of the day, any decisions made are out of our hands and, in all probability, just as well…

Bob Orci wants to be considered for the director’s position and why not? He can only get told – “No, not this time. Get some directing experience other than what you got on the “school of directing” course, then come back and we’ll see…” or not.

@Bob Orci – whatever decision gets made, it will be OK!

273. Phil - April 24, 2014

“After seventeen years of bouncing my head against the wall, hanging around sets, maybe influencing certain camera set-ups with my own opinions, watching actors go through all kinds of hell without any help, and working with both good directors and bad ones, I’m at the point where I’m ready to make my own pictures. I stored away all the mistakes I made and saved up all the good things I learned, and now I know enough to control my own projects and get what I want out of actors.”
Clint Eastwood

It’s a process. people. Bob doesn’t exist in a vacuum, and obviously he feels it’s time. It is now in the hands of the studio to see if they agree with him….

274. Disinvited - April 24, 2014

#242. SoonerDave – April 24, 2014

You taken my response to meanings that I never intended but made some interesting observations nonetheless.

To be clear, I only meant the hiring of Orci would be closer to Meyer’s hiring in TWoK.

“…they already had been stung by what a “name” director had accomplished..” – SoonerDave

And you don’t think another name (one nuParamount helped create) film director accomplished a similar sting first telling nuParamount “Don’t worry I’m the kind of guy what goes home with the girl what I brung.” and then at the end of the date tossing her the keys saying “Drive yourself home. I’ve reconsidered and decided the prom queen’s offer is just too good to ignore.”?

Look, I’m pretty clear on this: if I had my druthers, I’d druther Paramount took this whole 3rd Bad Robot installment far more seriously and maximize the hoopla of Trek hanging around for 50 years. But I take it as sign that as Meyer observed about the writing “Had Paramount been willing to keep on spending, they’d have eventually come up with something.” by way of hiring a “name” director. They haven’t; so I fully expect they are coming at it with an approach to cut costs. It’s not an entirely unheard of approach that a studio will take towards a 3rd installment.

#248. Kenji – April 24, 2014

Exactly where I was going with George Pal. You and I are on the same wavelength.

Also the guy whose job Roberto Gaston Orci is going after RECOMMENDED him for the it — that HAS to account for something in the hiring process. Now I can certainly understand Paramount being reticent and all, but that is why I feel warranted being optimistic, if and that’s a big IF Orci can sell them the gig.

I mean writer/director darlings have to come from somewhere, don’t they?

275. Disinvited - April 24, 2014

#273. Disinvited – April 24, 2014

Message 273. 2nd from the last paragraph(?)., take 2:

Also the guy whose job Roberto Gaston Orci is going after, RECOMMENDED him for it — that HAS to account for something in the hiring process. Now I can certainly understand Paramount being reticent and all, but that is why I feel warranted being optimistic, if and that’s a big IF Orci can sell them on awarding him the gig.

276. Ahmed - April 24, 2014

The first movie directed by Clint Eastwood was “Play Misty for Me” with a budget of $725,000.

Anyone care to tell me about a first time director getting a $150-190 million movie & it was successful ?

277. Silvereyes - April 24, 2014

270 Rose

Whatever you think of my or anyone else’s opinion doesn’t give you the right to put yourself on a pedestal and insult others. You’ve crossed the line into the personal realm and unless you’re a self-righteous 20 something or a child, this is not acceptable among intelligent adults.

278. Phil - April 24, 2014

@275. You seem to keep obsessing on budget, which isn’t the issue. All films are multi-million dollar budgets, so if Alfonso Cuaron or Joss Whedon would get the nod for similar types of projects, with similar budgets, and similar resumes, why wouldn’t Bob?

Let’s play your game in reverse – Hollywood is also littered with 150MM projects, with A list directors, producers, production companies and studios behind the camera, and A list talent in front of it, and the projects have been spectacular failures. So, in your A list ‘anyone but Bob’ universe, why don’t you explain how, in your mind, this guarantees success?

279. Ahmed - April 24, 2014

@ 277. Phil – April 24, 2014

“You seem to keep obsessing on budget, which isn’t the issue.”

I guess in your universe directing a $1 million project is the same as a $190 million project!

“All films are multi-million dollar budgets, so if Alfonso Cuaron or Joss Whedon would get the nod for similar types of projects, with similar budgets, and similar resumes, why wouldn’t Bob?”

Unlike Bob, Whedon & Cuaron both gained experience by actually directing TV episodes before moving on to directing feature films.

And I asked you a question first, tell me about a first time director getting a $150-190 million movie & it was successful ? If you can point me to anyone who directed such a project with ZERO directing experience, then I will agree with you.

280. Disinvited - April 24, 2014

#275. Ahmed – April 24, 2014

I think your argument would have been less dramatic but just as effective if you had taken the time to adjust for inflation:

http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=725%2C000&year1=1971&year2=2014

$4,229,936.42

281. Ahmed - April 24, 2014

@279. Disinvited

Thanks for the link & info.

282. Bill Peters - April 24, 2014

I have found that lot of people who are Arguing against Bob Orci, is also cause they want a Trek Film made that Trek fans love but General Audiences might not go see if they are not into Sci-Fi or Trek, why they want to go back to this Formula when it almost did Trek in after Nemesis is beyond me…

I also have to say Myers and Nimoys ships have Sailed on benig Directors they did great films in the past, we need to give new people a chance and I say Paramount should give Orci a Chance, as a writer he has given Paramount two very Successful Star Trek Movies.

283. Bill Peters - April 24, 2014

I am also wondering if people here want to punish Orci forever cause they didn’t like someting about 09 or STID and forver want him banned from Directing because they didn’t like how two of the Higest Grossing Trek Flims felt to them. I don’ think Bob has done anything to Preclude himslef from Directing.

284. Bill Peters - April 24, 2014

He has a lot of Experance under his belt:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Orci

285. boborci - April 24, 2014

ahmed

“Seriously in what universe do you give a $150 million movie to someone who NEVER direct before ? And that goes to anyone, not just Orci.”

In an alternate universe;)

286. Bill Peters - April 24, 2014

:) Bob I think you be great for the Job.

287. Bill Peters - April 24, 2014

I might say Ahmed, in a Universe that he has Written for and helped to give new life…

288. Keachick (Rose) - April 24, 2014

Silvereyes – April 24, 2014
252 Phil
The answer to all the questions you ask is: because STID sucks!
258. Silvereyes – April 24, 2014

252 Phil
Why don’t YOU support your argument with something else than *HOT GAS? What makes YOU think he would be a good director?
He writes two movies that are crap (plus the transformers movies, at least)?
Maybe my standards are higher than yours. When I get handed sh*t on a platter I don’t say thank you.”

*My emphasis

So – just what is this about, Silvereyes?
Describing a poster’s argument as nothing other than “hot gas”? Using personal opinion, not shared by many others, including Bob Orci’s present employers, and use of words that offer nothing in the way of illumination but are emotionally and negatively charged like “crap” and “sh*t”. Accusing me of putting myself on a pedestal when quite clearly you have done the very same thing here, “Maybe I have higher standards than yours…”

Really? As I said before, you – Deal with it!

289. Ahmed - April 24, 2014

@ 284. boborci – April 24, 2014

“ahmed

“Seriously in what universe do you give a $150 million movie to someone who NEVER direct before ? And that goes to anyone, not just Orci.”

In an alternate universe;)”

LOL, you got me there :)

290. Ahmed - April 24, 2014

@boborci,

So, why do you think that you can direct ST 3 ?

291. Phil - April 24, 2014

@278. I don’t need you to agree with me. My position, based on his resume and familiarity with the material, makes him a qualified candidate. Whether or not that’s enough to get him the job or not remains to be seen. Regardless, it’s a reasonable position, based on the best information available.

Your position, based on the fact he’s not actually had a directors credit, is that it’s the height of insanity to even consider him for the job, is much harder to support. You have to discount successful writing jobs, an extensive television career that undoubtedly included working closely with directors, not to mention peer referral. Under those conditions, then, yeah, he’s got nothing.

No one is going to match your criteria exactly. Whedon on The Avengers comes close, as does Curaon for Harry Potter. Kevin Costner for Dances With Wolves, but that’s only 42MM, inflation adjusted. It really doesn’t matter, because if someone did match your criteria exactly, you’d find some way to marginalize it, or add conditions.

292. Phil - April 24, 2014

I’m sure as hell hoping Bob directed a play or something in HS or college….

293. Disinvited - April 24, 2014

# 278. Ahmed – April 24, 2014

“Unlike Bob, Whedon & Cuaron both gained experience by actually directing TV episodes before moving on to directing feature films.” – Ahmed

As a testament to the fleeting nature of such requirements, there was a time when listing such a thing on applying for a movie directing gig would have been anathema towards any chance of getting hired.

#280. Ahmed – April 24, 2014

You are welcome.

My candidate for a first time director who surely must have burned through some significant cash on his first directing gig, would be Douglas Trumbull. But I can’t prove it. Estimates were made but I didn’t find them realistic. If I am accurately recalling the attitude of SILENT RUNNING’s time, studios did not want it to get out how deep post 2001:A SPACE ODYSSEY they were willing to go for FX for fear actors and other laborers would demand more dough as well. Taylor’s CLEOPATRA extravagances lead the studios to take a “keep the actors at bay” stance which eventually evaporated as such things often do in Hollywood.

294. dmduncan - April 24, 2014

For all the time you guys have spent bravely exploring new worlds, and boldly going where no man has gone before, you exhibit a stunning lack of imagination.

I don’t think Star Trek is doing the lot of you any good. You don’t see possibilities. Only fears.

295. Ahmed - April 24, 2014

@290. Phil

Joss Whedon [Before The Avengers] directed 41 episodes, 1 Video short & 1 movie.

Alfonso Cuarón [Before Harry Potter] directed 7 episodes, 3 Short film & 4 movies.

Kevin Costner’s directorial debut, Dances With Wolves, cost $35 million after adjusting it.

As you can see, this never happened before, to give a big project like that to a new director with no experience in directing.

In any case, you think he is ready to direct a major movie for the reasons that you mentioned. I disagree, I just don’t see how someone without prior experience can direct a major movie, they should start with something small to gain experience first & then go for the big one.

We both have very different views, so guess we will leave it at that.

296. dmduncan - April 24, 2014

275. Ahmed – April 24, 2014

You think Bob’s briefcase is too small? That he’s going to lose the money one morning on his way to the set? Get mugged, maybe?

I will grant you this, however. If you are afraid of big numbers, you shouldn’t be handling them.

297. dmduncan - April 24, 2014

Nobody here will affect Paramount’s decision…because the only one who listens to you is Bob. So your opposition counts as much as a stern Obama speech to Putin.

298. Silvereyes - April 24, 2014

287 Rose

Of course my comments are emotionally charged! But I don’t let my emotions take control of me by PERSONALLY insulting someone I don’t even know just because I don’t agree with him! If you can’t take people with differing opinions then this isn’t your place (and you have the nerve to call me ignorant). I don’t care what you think or why you think it and I’ll keep thinking Orci isn’t a good choice until he proves otherwise. Get over it.

299. What is it with you? - April 24, 2014

Go Bob! Anyone who has seen Bob’s late night posts on Trek Movie knows how much time he spends on sets. If he isn’t ready by now he never will be. Besides,directors have ADs and DPs and myriad other specialists to assist in everything they might not be the best at. I’m just happy that we have a TRUE fan directing Trek. When has that ever happened? It’s exciting.

Ahmed, embrace this. He’s one of us.

300. Ahmed - April 24, 2014

@dmduncan

My apology if I don’t see the possibilities here as you see them.

What I see is what I stated before

“I just don’t see how someone without prior experience can direct a major movie, they should start with something small to gain experience first & then go for the big one.”

Now, you are free of course to be very excited to have a writer without any prior experience take on the job, I don’t share that view.

“Nobody here will affect Paramount’s decision…because the only one who listens to you is Bob. So your opposition counts as much as a stern Obama speech to Putin.”

Now, you are being silly here. Since we are not going to affect Paramount’s decision, lets close the shop then, right? I mean, according to you, that is the main reason why we are here, to affect their decision!!!

301. Phil - April 24, 2014

@295. You got that right. I’m getting involved in a theatrical arts project where, reasonably, we need about 3.5MM to do what we want to do, and I’m dealing with fundraising volunteers who are used to selling candy bars. It’s going to take a little effort to stretch the vision a bit….

302. dmduncan - April 24, 2014

If i was Bob, right after it became official that I was made director, I would intentionally direct the most incoherent short film ever made and post it to YouTube.

303. Marja - April 24, 2014

268 Rose, I agree, I would have liked more of McCoy’s striving to save Kirk than the fight scene, tho’ I did love “Watch Spock Run!” The thing is, neither you nor I are in that precious 14-23 age bracket [the “teen tentpole market”] so what we would find fascinating is quite different from what would keep them interested [and leave their Smartphones alone].

275 Ahmed, what would Eastwood’s budget be in 2014 dollars? But — it wasn’t sci fi, so we’d have to adjust upward about 35% for SFX costs.

As someone pointed out above, Bob Orci has done producing for TV, and that involves a lot of budgetary awareness and coordination with the various Talents associated with the production. So it seems he has those parts of directing down.

And he has a lot of Trek lore and Trek love. He writes strong women characters [even though, regrettably, the female speaking parts are still in the minority].

We have an Alternate Universe to play in and explore.

As I’ve said, I’m cautiously optimistic.

IDK though. I’m still holding out for Spielberg

LOL

304. Thorny - April 24, 2014

Mr. Orci… what is the timeline for the production of ST3? Is there an opportunity for you to “get your feet wet” directing an early-next-season episode of “Person of Interest”, “Sleepy Hollow” or (if it survives) “Almost Human” for example?

305. Phil - April 24, 2014

@301. Twenty minutes of test patterns should do it….

Performance art. Gotta love it.

306. dmduncan - April 24, 2014

299. Ahmed – April 24, 2014

Now, you are being silly here. Since we are not going to affect Paramount’s decision, lets close the shop then, right? I mean, according to you, that is the main reason why we are here, to affect their decision!!!

***

I’m not sure what your complaints about the prospect are designed to achieve other than maybe to let off some steam. But if you are hoping for more, I think you hope in vain.

It’s your choice how to react, about this news and the reality if it happens. That’s the only choice you have, and it’s not particularly powerful or even like the complaining we do about what’s wrong with STiD–which Bob listens to and might actually be affected by.

So, complaining to a listening Bob about movie he wrote and complaining to a non-listening Paramount about a decision they might make…

Not the same thing.

Or maybe you are hoping to change Bob’s mind about directing so that he’ll drop the lobbying?

Haha. What type of man would Bob be if he got scared off a job he really wanted by complaints of the usual suspects on the internet?

307. Jonboc - April 24, 2014

I think the majority of detractors here haven’t a clue as to how the entertainment industry works. The fact that they can’t fathom how Bob could direct Trek speaks volumes. It’s just negative personal feelings mixed with ignorance of the subject at hand.

308. Cygnus-X1 - April 24, 2014

253. Phil – April 24, 2014

Huh?

Phil, you’re not making much sense.

309. Keachick (Rose) - April 24, 2014

#52 Silvereyes – “That’s it. I give up. First hire writers who have nothing to their credit, now a director who has never directed but would like to try his hand at it. What is this anyway? Is Star Trek a nursery for budding movie “pros” who have career ambitions in fields they know nothing about?
Let’s face it. Orci dropped the ball on STID. So now let’s give him a chance to direct?? What?? This has got to be a bad joke. Go ahead Bad Robot… just hire your buddies… Good call! :(”

As far back as this post, what you wrote was reeked with sarcasm as well as being obviously ignorant – hiring writers who have nothing to their credit? Incorrect. So you know that Bob Orci (presumably the one you refer to as having “career ambition in fields…”) has no knowledge? Yet another non-sequitur comment. You have continued throughout this thread in a similar vein.

Your posts come across to me as being someone who is overly emotional without having the rationality to balance it. So you are allowed to be emotional (and call posters like Phil as being “hot gas”) but I can’t be? Nice one – not! You reject facts when presented, but instead repeat “I don’t like it”, “because STID sucks!” etc, considering these comments as being good reasons for Bob Orci not being allowed to direct.

Paramount will NOT be basing their decision on comments made by people like yourself. If they do, then we really are in big trouble!

So have you been personal – from your very first post…and then you query as to whether I am a 20 something and impune my intelligence and even manage to bring ageist crap into the argument.

310. Ahmed - April 24, 2014

@305. dmduncan

“I’m not sure what your complaints about the prospect are designed to achieve other than maybe to let off some steam. But if you are hoping for more, I think you hope in vain. (sic) So, complaining to a listening Bob about movie he wrote and complaining to a non-listening Paramount about a decision they might make… Not the same thing.”

Paramount didn’t make any decision yet, so I don’t know why are you expressing your strong support for Bob. Do you expect that by showing your support, that Paramount will listen to you & hire him immediately ?

Paramount is NOT listening, so do not write anything, that is the logical thing to do!

311. dmduncan - April 24, 2014

309. Ahmed – April 24, 2014

Paramount didn’t make any decision yet, so I don’t know why are you expressing your strong support for Bob. Do you expect that by showing your support, that Paramount will listen to you & hire him immediately ?

Paramount is NOT listening, so do not write anything, that is the logical thing to do!

***

Hahaha. But I’m not talking to Paramount, so there is no equivalence between what you are doing and what I am doing. I’m talking to Bob, to offer him support in the event he should come by and read this thread. Because I think that is an important and respectful thing to do for people I like when they are looking for a new job, and when I want what they do to turn out well. What I’m saying has nothing to do with Paramount’s decision and will have no effect on it.

312. Mike Barnett - April 24, 2014

Bob directed Italian Spiderman back in the ’80’s ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhHhXukovMU&app=desktop

313. Disinvited - April 24, 2014

#302. Marja – April 24, 2014

Re:Spielberg

Didn’t we already get IOWAN KIRK AND THE SPACESHIP OF DOOM? Or was that JURASSIC QUARK?

314. Hugh Hoyland - April 24, 2014

Bob, can I have a job on your production team? :] I dont have a lot of experience but I’m motivated. (Maybe I can make the coffee or something.)

315. Ahmed - April 24, 2014

@310. dmduncan

“But I’m not talking to Paramount, so there is no equivalence between what you are doing and what I am doing.”

DM, I don’t know where you are getting this weird notion that because I don’t support the idea, it mean that I’m talking to Paramount. Sorry to say it, but this is a dumb notion on your part.

The majority here are supporting Bob in his lobbying, so you don’t have to worry about what I say, it is my personal opinion after all. Nothing more & nothing less.

316. Marja - April 24, 2014

311 Mike, LOL!
In view of this accomplishment he more than meets the requirements for ST3.

Actione! Velocita! Terrore! Suspenso! Romanza! Goblin!
Kirrrk, Spock-o, Dottore McCoy, Tenente Uhura e Scotti!

Buona fortuna, Roberto!

312 Dis, Naw, that was Iowan Jim and the Spaceship of Vengeance ;-)

317. Cygnus-X1 - April 24, 2014

308. Keachick (Rose) – April 24, 2014

Your posts come across to me as being someone who is overly emotional without having the rationality to balance it.

…said the girl who spent two weeks lamenting and heart-broken over Chris Pine’s comment concerning social media.

318. Ahmed - April 24, 2014

@ 315. Marja – April 24, 2014

“Actione! Velocita! Terrore! Suspenso! Romanza! Goblin!
Kirrrk, Spock-o, Dottore McCoy, Tenente Uhura e Scotti!”

LOL

319. Cygnus-X1 - April 24, 2014

289. Ahmed – April 24, 2014

@boborci, So, why do you think that you can direct ST 3 ?

Because his old job has gone to McKay and Payne.

He’s gotta do something with the extra time on his hands, right?

So, why not direct? It might involve a pay increase, it’ll look good on his resume, and it’ll qualify him for a greater variety of jobs in the future.

What’s <"can" have to do with it? He hung out on the set while JJ was directing the last two movies. Isn’t that plus career ambition enough?

Why are you asking such silly questions, Ahmed?

320. Keachick (Rose) - April 24, 2014

#302 – “268 Rose, I agree, I would have liked more of McCoy’s striving to save Kirk than the fight scene, tho’ I did love “Watch Spock Run!” The thing is, neither you nor I are in that precious 14-23 age bracket [the “teen tentpole market”] so what we would find fascinating is quite different from what would keep them interested [and leave their Smartphones alone].”

I must admit I like watching “See Spock Run!” as well. It’s what happens after – all went on a bit long, silly and ugly.

People like and often need to compartmentalize or pigeon-hole, especially the Hollywood movie/TV studios. Some types of stories are easily done – eg the Transformers stories, totally suited to the 14-23 age group, which is one of the reasons these films made a sh*tload of money for them. Similar could be said about Star Wars.

However, Star Trek can’t be/won’t be, which is why Paramount seems to have always had a love/hate relationship with the franchise. I think the *problem* that’s always *plagued* Star Trek is that it attracts no one particular age group more than another and never has. That goes for race, culture, gender, sexual orientation etc. It is not so easily slotted into a particular place, which can create problems re scripting, marketing etc.

Therein lies the challenge and creativity and the true excitement of Star Trek – making it continue to *work* for so many.

I think the real trick is to forget about attracting one particular kind of audience (which has been the one who the studio figures have the most disposable money and time) but write stories about what people (mostly adults) might experience in outer space 250 years from now in a fairly well known Star Trek universe, along with various other beings they may encounter…

321. Keachick (Rose) - April 24, 2014

#316 – Actually I spent some of that time being upset about the Chris Pine DUI charge he got while he was in NZ. It was a one/two thing going on. Besides, I was reacting to a very current event. Your comment just now, not mine, is the first time this subject has been mentioned by anyone here in a month.

Silvereyes, along with others, has repeated himself at various times and tend to say stuff like Orci has nothing to his credit which is complete nonsense, and so on…
A cursory glance at Orci’s IMDb homepage tells a different story – a factual one and not based on some people’s OPINIONS of Orci’s writing skills. Paramounts’ et al final opinion/decision is the only one that counts and once an announcement is made re the movie’s next director – this will be FACT.

322. dmduncan - April 24, 2014

314. Ahmed – April 24, 2014

“The majority here are supporting Bob in his lobbying, so you don’t have to worry about what I say, it is my personal opinion after all. Nothing more & nothing less.”

And conversations sometimes involve counteropinions.

Let me clarify and summarize for you: Unless you ARE talking to Paramount (which you are not) then your complaints seem just you venting your fear, and do not have the potential productiveness of complaints that do have a chance of having an effect as in when we complain to Bob about what he did.

I understand a small amount of otherwise pointless venting. More than that and it’s just malice. Negative energy.

Venting is okay, but if you drag it on too long

323. Ahmed - April 24, 2014

@ 318. Cygnus-X1 – April 24, 2014

“What’s <"can" have to do with it? He hung out on the set while JJ was directing the last two movies. Isn’t that plus career ambition enough?"

Why are you asking such silly questions, Ahmed?"

Indeed, I'm beginning to see the light here, bro :-)

324. dmduncan - April 24, 2014

325. Buzz Cagney - April 24, 2014

Having seen the lobbying going on above I am going to Vote ‘No’ for Orci getting the job.

There are too many people are not seeing the weakness of the product coming from Bad Reboot, and i’d prefer to see someone from outside those offices getting a chance at the next movie.

326. Ahmed - April 24, 2014

@ 323. dmduncan – April 24, 2014

“…”

.– …. .- – / ..–.. :-)

327. Keachick (Rose) - April 24, 2014

#324 – “There are too many people are not seeing the weakness of the product coming from Bad Reboot”

I assume you mean Bad Robot rather than Bad Reboot…

And – I could just as easily say, “There are too many people not seeing the strength of the product coming from Bad Robot”.

As for my own view of the pros vs cons associated with Bob Orci being the next director –

Pros –
he has written and produced two successful Star Trek movies so far;
he has been associated with these iterations of Star Trek since the beginning;
he has doubtless spent much time on the sets of the first two movies, watching, listening, communicating with the director(s), production crew and actors, quite possibly seeking advice and having his advice sought;
he has been part of pre-production, principle photography, post-production;
he has been the writer/producer of other successful projects over time that have not been associated with Star Trek.

Cons
he has never directed anything (as far as we know), ie he is not QBE;
having a good knowledge of theory is one thing, however practice and experience can be quite another.

If Paramount have found a more experienced director, perhaps Bob Orci could be an associate director. It would give Orci the experience he needs re directing a big movie and he be able to offer knowledge of Trek that the more experienced director probably won’t have. That might just work!

328. Cygnus-X1 - April 24, 2014

324. Buzz Cagney – April 24, 2014

THANK YOU.

People get a bit starstruck when a celebrity makes an appearance and fan-giddiness tends to obscure rational discernment.

What’s most important to EVERYONE here is that the next Trek product be GREAT. Not just good. Not mediocre. Not, “well, it was better than Nemesis.”

But, GREAT. Worthy of the legacy of GR.

And, sorry, but I haven’t seen anything great come out of any Bob Orci projects. He’s got a lot of OKs. A lot of passables. Quite a few satisfactories. And two movies that were both better than Nemesis, Generations and STV.

BUT THAT’S A LOW BAR.

We want GREAT. Something that will stand the test of time. Something that’s NOT ANOTHER F*CKING SHALLOW, SUPERFICIAL COMIC-BOOK MOVIE.

And, sorry, but I just don’t see that coming from Bob Orci, writer of ST09 and STID and would-be first-time director with no particular vision for what Trek should be, other than a damned ankle-deep comic-book action movie.

There are many talented directors out there who’ve proven themselves, paid their dues, deserve a shot and could make the next movie GREAT.

Give one of them a chance to make a worthy SCIENCE FICTION movie.

329. Red Dead Ryan - April 24, 2014

So much damn negativity coming from a small group of “fans” here.

The same folks who keep clamoring for Nick Meyer, Leonard Nimoy, or Jonathan Frakes to direct. Never mind that none of them have directed movies in a long time, and that they wouldn’t be familiar with how movies get made these days. Filmmaking has evolved and changed significantly since those guys last directed a Trek film, and Bob Orci is more familiar with how things get done today than those guys. Thus, Bob is, in my opinion, at least as qualified (if not more so) to direct the next film.

Some of you seem to think Bob hasn’t taken notes on directing from J.J Abrams. Since he’s clamoring for the job, its likely that he’s learned a thing or two from Abrams and feels ready and confident to apply it as the man behindthe camera.

330. Keachick (Rose) - April 24, 2014

“People get a bit starstruck when a celebrity makes an appearance and fan-giddiness tends to obscure rational discernment.”

Speak for yourself, Cygnus-X1. Frankly, I am not that enamoured by much that goes for “rational discernment” from one or two of the naysayers here.

I do not see anyone behaving in a starstruck manner or suffering from fan-giddiness.

As for my “fan-giddiness”, well, I am fairly certain that Bob Orci knows by now that my own “fan-giddiness” will go only so far…

Using words like starstruck, celebrity and fan-giddiness just shows me that you are unable to engage in any rational discernment of your own.

331. dswynne - April 25, 2014

Is it me, or is Bad Robot wants to helm both the Star Wars and Star Trek franchises? Not that I am against this, but I wouldn’t be surprise if this is the case. And if it is, do you think that there could be a Wars/Trek crossover film? Nah…

332. dswynne - April 25, 2014

@328 (RDR): Actually, according to Frakes’ IMDb profile, he does have his directorial credit up-to-date:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000408/#director

Most of it is in television, but still…

333. Elias Javalis - April 25, 2014

Go Bob! All Great movies came from Men with Passion. You ll do great!

334. Captain Slow - April 25, 2014

Let’s examine the pros and cons carefully:

Pros

He’s been working in Hollywood for over 20 years

He co-wrote and produced the previous two ST movies

He is a big Star Trek fan

As one of the writers he will have a greater understanding of the story than anyone else

He was opposed to the idea of having Khan as the villain

Cons:

He doesn’t have any actual directing experience

Um… I can’t think of any more. If that’s the only con then I’m not that worried. I know some people hated both movies and wanted Frakes or Meyer to come in and change it all back to the Prime Universe, but as someone who thought the Bad Robot Treks were possibly the best ones, I see no problem.

335. Captain Slow - April 25, 2014

Also, We’ve only ever heard about three other candidates for the job. The director of G.I. Joe, the director of Apes, and the director of a movie no one’s ever heard of. Now I haven’t seen any of those movies so I don’t have any opinion on their skills, but with the exception of Rupert Wyatt, no one seemed thrilled with the choices. It does seem that Paramount is going for someone cheaper and lesser-known. If that’s the case, why can’t it be someone who’s familiar with Star Trek and everyone involved?

336. Bill Peters - April 25, 2014

Captian Slow has some good points many of the Directosr people want eather cost too much money or are busy with other Projects, I also have to point out General Audainces tend to right now like movies that are more Action Orented when it comes to Sci-Fi and faster paced then some of the older Star Trek Movies we all love and watch… the days where you can be Cererabal with Minimal Action has kind of passed for now in Sci-Fi you need to be Cerebal while giving the audance lots of Action and a fast pace, you don’t want to lose them.

337. Bill Peters - April 25, 2014

and you can tell by my typing from above I did the above post at 2:30AM West coast USA time.

338. Tom - April 25, 2014

210 Admiral Bumblebee

I like the idea of Shatner in the movie Admiral. However there is no way he would get a large role like you described. Someone mentioned the Shatner scene earlier. Wouldn’t it be cool for Bob to direct the Shatner scene he wrote years ago. If he did that with a little something else so that we would not know the entire scene it would be great. Nice touch if he has a scene with Nimoy.
Wish Bob the best and really hope him and the new guys do a great job. I was just thinking of the old joke on any job. “Blame it on the new guy” All kidding aside I hopr Bob gives a great Movie for the 50th!

339. Disinvited - April 25, 2014

#333. Captain Slow – April 25, 2014, 335. Bill Peters – April 25, 2014

We can do better than that. From this article from 2010 alone we can extract enough to plug into a resume:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/alex-kurtzman-roberto-orci-ink-20170

Hot feature writer

successful feature writer

reinvention of “Hawaii 5-0″

inked first TV studio deal — a rich three-year overall pact with 20th Century Fox TV

launched a TV production company

writes projects as well as works with other scribes — people he brings in or talent from 20th TV’s roster

built an infrastructure and hired executives

“a perfect fit [Orci’s brand and types of shows for the studio]” – 20th TV chairman Dana Walden

“Our ideal producers are like Alex and Bob, who are incredibly versatile and talent magnets for their peers in the writing community, for actors and directors.” – 20th TV chairman Dana Walden

DreamWorks-based feature company

just before the November 2007 WGA strike: got four movies ready for production: “Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen” and “Star Trek,” which he co-wrote, and “Eagle Eye” and “The Proposal,” he produced. Also “Fringe” pilot, shepherded with co-creator J.J. Abrams at the same time. “It was trial by fire. What that taught us is how to split our time and maintain the quality.” – Roberto Orci

ability to multi-task

courted by multiple studios and networks.

“We’re the lucky winners of the Kurtzman-Orci contest.” – 20th TV chairman Dana Walden

creative heroes: Steven Bochco, Shawn Ryan, Ryan Murphy

working on a “Star Trek” sequel feature

consulting producer on “Fringe” and executive producer on CBS/CBS Studios’ “Hawaii 5-0,” which he co-wrote with Peter Lenkov and Alex Kurtzman, and on the “Transformers” CG-animated series for Hasbro/Discovery channel the Hub.

repped by CAA and Michael Gendler.”

# 336. Bill Peters – April 25, 2014

” and you can tell by my typing from above I did the above post at 2:30AM West coast USA time.” – Bill Peters

FWIW the comment feed says you posted that at 2:20AM

340. Scott Williams - April 25, 2014

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Then again, it could hardly be worse than the last two.

341. I am not Herbert - April 25, 2014

GOD I HATE BOBORCI!! =(

seeing his smug insider face makes me clench my fists in anger =(

but, it makes sense: nobody in their right mind would join this cluster-trek…
so, just let the ultimate in-house suck-ass take over… =(

nu-trek SUCKS ASS!!! (thanks JJ-K/O!) =(

342. Captain Slow - April 25, 2014

@ 338 Disinvited

That’s a really impressive list of credentials. The one part I’d disagree with is “ability to multi-task”. The four-years between movies would seem to suggest that that’s not entirely accurate.

343. I am not Herbert - April 25, 2014

PLEASE make the Tropic Thunder version of nu-trek…

…where boborci (les grossman) gets blown-up by a landmine at the start…

PLEASE!!!

344. I am not Herbert - April 25, 2014

might as well… =(

it’d be tough for boborci to screw the pooch any worse than JJ did… =(

nevertheless, i cringe at the thought… =(

345. Jonboc - April 25, 2014

#324 “There are too many people are not seeing the weakness of the product coming from Bad Reboot…”

No, what we have here are a majority of fans who DON’T agree with your perceived “weaknesses” of Bad Robot’s Star Trek, and actually support Bob Orci.
Yours, along with the continued bashing and efforts by a handful of others on this site, to tear down anything possitive about Bob or Trek Into Darkness, amounts to nothing more than a spoiled child, stomping about because he isnt getting his way. And as that becomes clearer, you and your fellow detractor’s deconstructive crtticsms become nothing more than faint rumblings in the distance.

346. Trekbilly - April 25, 2014

I think Bob would do a fantastic job!! You people trashing the new films, have narrow minds. Things change. At least we’ve got some Star Trek right now. So what if these films are action oriented? This is the best looking Star Trek ever and I enjoy the action oriented Treks!

I’ll take Nu Trek over Insurrection, Nemesis, Star Trek V and Generatiins any day!!

Go Bob!! You have my vote!! BTW, Amazing Spider-Man 2 (written by Orci and Kurtzman) is getting rave reviews from those who have seen it. These guys are going to the TOP!!! :-)

347. Curious Cadet - April 25, 2014

@338. Disinvited,

The Dana Walden quote suggests something to me. Orci is a job creator, with hot properties Hollywood wants. So he’s in a position to leverage that power to sidestep the apprentice system and take what he wants without consequences. And that’s how the world works.

Star Trek is actually not a bad place for him to start, despite the apparent incongruity. In many respects going into its third installment with the same “family” it is very similar to TV where many directors get their start. What makes TV such a good training ground for first time directors is that the cast and crew all know their jobs. So even if the director screws the pooch, things usually turn out OK because everyone else is essentially running on auto-pilot. There’s also a pitfall here as well … Actors often need a strong hand to keep them in line. With several young cast members pushing the bounds — Zoe wanting more fight scenes, and Pine wanting to go “dark” now that Kirk’s full of Khan blood, etc. — they can use the opportunity with a young director, especially one they presumably already consider a “friend”, to go places with their characters that a seasoned director would control. And, a nervous studio can use an unseasoned director to push their own agenda in all aspects of the movie. It’s a tough position to be in.

And who knows, maybe he does have what it takes to be an amazing director.

348. Commodore Adams - April 25, 2014

164. Keachick (Rose) – April 23, 2014

Hell yea Keachick you tell em!

349. Phil - April 25, 2014

@328. It’s also no small coincidence that these same people tend to be very vocal advocates of fan films. Draw whatever conclusions you may from that observation…

350. Captain Slow - April 25, 2014

@ 348 Phil

I enjoy a lot of fan films. But what I don’t enjoy is when people use them as an opportunity to bash the official stuff. When STC releases an episode and you get comments like “These people get Star Trek unlike Jar Jar Abrams!!!1!!1″ it gives one the impression that the only thing fans care about is what the sets look like and TOS guest stars.

351. Ahmed - April 25, 2014

@326. Keachick (Rose)

“If Paramount have found a more experienced director, perhaps Bob Orci could be an associate director. It would give Orci the experience he needs re directing a big movie and he be able to offer knowledge of Trek that the more experienced director probably won’t have. That might just work!”

Or if there is no time to find a more experienced director, maybe they should hire both Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci. It is not unusual to have two directors working on one movie, most recent example is Captain America 2. When you factor in that Alex & Bob worked as team for decades, it make more sense to hire them both.

352. Ahmed - April 25, 2014

@348. Phil

Star Trek – Horizon: Teaser Trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6lvauYhw70

Enjoy :-)

353. Phil - April 25, 2014

@349. My son is in theater in high school, and, on occasion, you’ll hear a few of the kids start in with ‘we are as good as…’, at which point the responsible adults in the room will need to gently remind them that they are still learning their craft, and if they factor the parents out of the audience the theater would not even be close to full. In the context of HS theater, the kids are very good, but it would be incredibly unfair to them to compare them to Broadway. Of the various fan productions I’ve seen STC probably strikes the best balance of respecting the source material and not taking itself to seriously. Everything else borders on parody, or someone’s space shoot-em up. I agree, the fan productions (and their supporters), with a few exceptions, seem to have this perverse need to build themselves up by tearing the professional product down…and they can’t seem to grasp how much that constant sniping just grates on people who should be their biggest supporters.

354. Phil - April 25, 2014

…..or someone’s space shoot-em up fantasy.

355. Cygnus-X1 - April 25, 2014

328. Red Dead Ryan – April 24, 2014

The same folks who keep clamoring for Nick Meyer, Leonard Nimoy, or Jonathan Frakes to direct. Never mind that none of them have directed movies in a long time, and that they wouldn’t be familiar with how movies get made these days.

You’re making a case for the old-timers, now. The Trek movies made by Meyer and Nimoy were superior to the BR movies.

Filmmaking has evolved and changed significantly since those guys last directed a Trek film

Yes, and not for the better.

The only evolution which has led to *improvements* in the caliber of movies today has been in the area of special FX and digital cameras. And I’m sure that Bad Robot has plenty of people on hand to answer any questions that an old-timer might have, assuming they haven’t kept up with such advancements in technology and didn’t figure it all out during pre-production.

356. Cygnus-X1 - April 25, 2014

329. Keachick (Rose) – April 24, 2014

Using words like starstruck, celebrity and fan-giddiness just shows me that you are unable to engage in any rational discernment of your own.

…said the girl who spent two weeks lamenting and heart-broken over a comment by Chris Pine concerning social media, and ANOTHER two weeks worried sick over Chris Pine’s DUI charge. My dear, you are the veritable PARAGON of fan-giddiness.

And that’s fine! You be the best you that you can be!

357. Marja - April 25, 2014

330 DSWynne,
Yes, there is JJ Abrams, rubbing his hands in glee

“BWAHahahaha, All your base are belong to us!”

358. Marja - April 25, 2014

328 RDRyan, Yes! And it suddenly occurs to me:

Surely Orci wants to succeed at helming ST3.

Wouldn’t he know whether he is likely — or not — to succeed?

If he had the slightest doubt I cannot imagine why he would lobby for the job. Who in the world would want to be known as the guy who killed a franchise? Especially one as beloved as Star Trek?

359. Cygnus-X1 - April 25, 2014

344. Jonboc – April 25, 2014

There’s no need for that.

Nobody’s dismissing your opinion as invalid simply because they disagree with it. Both sides have valid points to make. Trying to ostracize the other side is poor form.

360. Cygnus-X1 - April 25, 2014

357. Marja – April 25, 2014

Wouldn’t he know whether he is likely — or not — to succeed?

If he had the slightest doubt I cannot imagine why he would lobby for the job. Who in the world would want to be known as the guy who killed a franchise? Especially one as beloved as Star Trek?

Marja, by this reasoning Shatner’s STV and Stuart Baird’s ST:Nemesis would not have been the unequivocal stinkers that they were.

It’s called career ambition. Bob’s been largely replaced in the writing department. The director’s job has opened up. It’d obviously be good for his career to get that job. He’s been on sets for a long time now. He’s seen what directors do. I’m sure he’s thinking, “hey, I can do that.” And, I’m sure that’s what Shatner was thinking, too.

361. Cygnus-X1 - April 25, 2014

Regarding fan films, I tend discuss them on their own terms and not draw too many comparisons to the BR Trek movies. The areas in which the BR Trek movies are superior to fan films are obvious. But there are areas in which the fan films are superior. And those I do find very interesting. Making a product that is ultimately more compelling, thought-provoking and enjoyable upon repeat viewings for 1/100th the cost—that’s no small feat. And some of the unofficial Trek productions are getting awfully close to achieving precisely that.

Actually, now that you mention fan films, Paramount should be looking to some of the unofficial Trek productions for director candidates! Seeing what they have been able to do with $20k, what might they be able to accomplish with $200M and the actors that can be hired with that kind of money? Now THAT is an exciting prospect. See, all it takes is a bit of outside-the-box thinking to make Star Trek exciting again.

362. Marja - April 25, 2014

319 Rose, Star Trek is that it attracts no one particular age group more than another and never has. That goes for race, culture, gender, sexual orientation etc. It is not so easily slotted into a particular place, which can create problems re scripting, marketing etc. … Therein lies the challenge and creativity and the true excitement of Star Trek – making it continue to *work* for so many.

And this is the challenge for the production team of Trek3: bringing back those people who were so alienated by Abrams’ “tentpole-appeal” films. At least soothing their ruffled brainy, grown-up, sci-fi “feathers.”

I hope they remember the huge success of Gravity last year. At heart it was a simple story — does she or does she not want to live, will she act to preserve her life? — but behind that were the themes of disappointment, grief, self-blame and more. And it drew in many, many people hungry for a good story of humans in space.
—————————————————————————————–
325 Ahmed, whiskey tango foxtrot? I checked the Morse chart … so, HUH?
—————————————————————————————–
327 Cygnus, a worthy SCIENCE FICTION movie. GREAT. Worthy of the legacy of GR.
Based on these criteria, please let us know which of the TOS movies was truly GREAT.

Besides WOK. [Which movie, beloved by fans, GR disliked.]
—————————————————————————————–
341 Cap’n Slow, LOL
—————————————————————————————–
346 Curious, Wouldn’t Bob Orci, as producer of several TV series, already be acquainted with the actor/ego/role-changing issue? Will he not have had to deal with it? In such a way as to preserve the vision he had of whichever series?
——————————————————————————————
Cygnus, Rose, Silvereyes, Now let’s not talk about ‘oo dissed ‘oo, this is a ‘APPY occasion!

We finally have a discussion thread that’s really going …

363. Phil - April 25, 2014

@360. Let a fan film producer do it? Well, now that you’ve ventured into the theater of the absurd, why not:

Geoff Peterson
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quDQ38dx21o

Philip J. Fry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m25UsM_-Xmw

Wilson (directors with single names are edgy)
http://www.you-think-too-much.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/wilson.jpeg

Or just draw a random SSI number and let them do it…..

364. Phil - April 25, 2014

@361. WOK is a great Trek movie. Great Sci-Fi, not so much.

365. Surak1701 - April 25, 2014

Bob is obviously a passionate fan, believes in the material, and a smart screenwriter who has made some very clever choices in the last two movies. And no doubt he’d be able to marshal a very experienced filmmaking team, knows the cast well, and draw on a lot of resource for advice. Despite the directing inexperience, all that counts for a great deal. Plus… I wanna see another Trek in 2016, and having Bob Orci leading the team might actually be the best chance for making that happen.

366. Ahmed - April 25, 2014

Given that Bob is lobbying for the director position & EW reported on Wednesday that J.D. Payne and Patrick McKay are currently working on the Flash Gordon script, it is fair to say that the script is done by now.

367. Barfco - April 25, 2014

I don’t know about directing or not but I have this idea for the third movie. I understand that this one is the last of this trilogy and it seems like they might want to have the new JJ universe put back the way it was before Nero altered it. The only way to do that would be through the help of an Omnipantant being that has the power to change space and time with the snap of a finger. Of course I don’t think you could build a whole movie around John DeLancie’s “Q” character because they were already washing down his evil tendencies while he was on Next Generation and then on Voyager it was even less. But they did introduce the idea of many “Q”‘s some good and some bad. I’ve read that someone like Tom Hanks has mentioned that he’s always wanted to be in a Star Trek Movie. He could play an evil to the core member of the Q continuum that is hell bent on destroying humanity and John Delancie’s “Q” is the only one that can stop him with the help of Captain Kirk and crew. A story would have to be fleshed out but but with their “Q” powers the Universe can be returned to normal and if they wanted to they can even create a way for a William Shattner cameo because “Q” can do anything he wants. Just an idea….

368. Ahmed - April 25, 2014

@362. Marja

“325 Ahmed, whiskey tango foxtrot? I checked the Morse chart … so, HUH?”

Oh, I see that I missed a dash there, it should read like this:

.– …. .- – / ..–..

I was asking DM “What ? ” when I saw his post @ 323. dmduncan “…” :-)

369. Ahmed - April 25, 2014

That is weird, for some reason, the second dash is still missing from the comment !

370. Cygnus-X1 - April 25, 2014

361. Marja – April 25, 2014

Based on these criteria, please let us know which of the TOS movies was truly GREAT. Besides WOK. [Which movie, beloved by fans, GR disliked.]

Really?!? GR didn’t like TWOK? If that’s true, I have no comment about it other than that I find that movie worthy of his legacy and am nonplussed that he wouldn’t.

TWOK was great. STIII was better than the BR Trek movies and holds up impressively well 30 years later. If I’m the mood for a good time (and when am I not?) the choice between watching STIII and ST09 or STID ain’t no choice at all. There’s a big plot hole in face-off w/ Kruge, but apart from that, STIII is very good movie. STIV was great. STVI was very good. The Berman-era movies are where you start getting down into BR Trek caliber. Between First Contact and ST09, it’s pretty much a draw. They both have their moments, but also serious problems. And they’re both ultimately unsatisfying—FC due to its egregious, pervasive plot holes and some cheesy dialogue; and the shortcomings of ST09 have been discussed in detail here in other threads.

371. Bill Peters - April 25, 2014

@ 338 Disinvited

I rounded up…mind you I love the talk here at Trek movie, Also yes he does have Impressive Credentials.

Surak1701 Have to agree with you points, I also don’t get why with JJ Trek fans can’t live IDIC.

362. Phil LOL, and if Ahmed’s number comes up, I hope he understands that he has to Direct the Flim that Parmount has the writers writing not the one he thinks it should be, the Director can change things but not the hole feel of the movie.

372. Disinvited - April 25, 2014

#346. Curious Cadet – April 25, 2014

My thoughts exactly. I’m not whole hog jumping on the couch happy — in fact, I’m not sure I’m any kind of happy, more “resigned” that this is just historically how Hollywood corporate thinks Trek should be treated. — about it that Paramount is taking this approach given their opportunities here but as dmduncan keeps trying to get people to see: there are “possibilities.”

Do I see ways this could go horribly wrong? Sure, but I see those same disastrous possibilities if the original director had remained attached.

And if I continue focusing on that I risk just unintentionally going all passive-aggressive about Bad Robot’s Trek as there are things about it that I have been more than vocal about not being thrilled about.

Let’s just say that when Bob and I weren’t getting on each other’s nerves in discussing his 2009 effort that he assured me that he knew what it was that I was talking about it lacking as a ST and that if I just give him a chance, he’d get it into the next one.

Now as a “film” film I’m not as “happy” about STID as I was with the 2009 one. But when the curtain fell (Full disclosure:saw it on Blu-ray), I felt a faint trace of what Bob said he would do. And it left me feeling “that wasn’t the best episode I ever saw but it feels like something I could call a STAR TREK.” I got a chance to see it again and I see running through it a trace of something or rather, someone, struggling against tremendous countervailing forces trying to address my concerns. Now I don’t mean to imply that Bob had me personally in his mind while trying to address these things, but I saw what dmduncan has pointed out to me and others numerous times: the guy that struggled and lost to get the Prime Kirk scene in was still in there, slugging and struggling. Now I realize this is all very PA but “It isn’t much to hang my hat on, but I’m going to do it.”

Now the only thing I think Bob should be very aware of in taking the gig if he should be so fortunate: his temper. But as you point out: He’s been working with these people for 6 years now, he and they apparently have mechanisms in place that enable them to deal with it and move forward. The only real issue might be for the uninitiated new guys.

373. Red Dead Ryan - April 25, 2014

So Cygnus is now suggesting fan film directors as candidates for the official movie job. Interesting. Never mind that amateur directors don’t have to worry about reporting to studio honchos on a daily basis, or trying to manage the countless egos on a movie set. Not to mention that the pressures of being involved in a big budget movie are a lot more stressful than those of fan productions. The fan production producer/director tends to be the boss, while the official directors/producers are often given parameters (financial and creative) to work within by the studio bosses, often resulting in clashes, and sometimes even sabotaging the making of a particular movie, resulting in a subpar film.

That’s not to say fan productions are easy. I’m sure there are plenty of challenges. But those challenges are simpler and less difficult than those that occur in a Hollywood, where you’re dealing with shareholders, studio executives, prima donna actors, egotistical producers/directors, tight schedules, tabloids, bloggers, tv reporters and journalists, and the crazy economics and politics of the industry.

You’d need someone with a thick skin, and Bob Orci has that. Not sure about the fan producers though.

374. Phil - April 25, 2014

@371. I think you DO know the answer to that – just look at the comments on the Axanar thread. Any and all comments that were not sycophantic expressions of love and adoration were attacked with verbal fists of fury. Considering that crowd funding of the fan films has basically turned them into pay for play productions, it would kill these guys to have to deal with the unwashed masses….

375. Marja - April 25, 2014

368 Cygnus, Yep. First, he was edged out of STII b/c he had some odd notion that the Klingons would travel back in time to do something about the JFK assassination. There were other ideas he had that went against any sensible proposition for a film. He did not like Meyers’s take on a more naval/mililtary Starfleet, even though he himself had based Kirk on Horatio Hornblower [C.S. Forrester’s British Naval Hero]. And I quote, Roddenberry’s opinons of WOK and TUC:

Whether in spite or because of its mushy stance on Spock’s expiration, Khan was the hit the franchise needed. Janet Maslin’s New York Times review began, “Well, this is more like it.”

But there was at least one person who did not love the movie: Roddenberry. Perhaps that was to be expected, given that Paramount Pictures had ripped his baby away from him and handed it over to some novelist who by his own admission didn’t know Mr. Spock from Mr. Peanut. [note, Meyer was the director and re-wrote some of the movie, but Herb Solow won the right to be credited as writer, since he wrote most of the script.] Years later, when Roddenberry learned that Meyer’s screenplay for The Undiscovered Country was an end-of-the-Cold War allegory, wherein hawkish factions within both the Federation and the Klingon Empire conspire to sabotage the peace treaty being negotiated between the galactic superpowers, he hit the roof.

Link
http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2013/05/21/185774613/the-starfleet-divide-the-star-trek-universe-revisits-one-of-its-great-debates

376. Cygnus-X1 - April 25, 2014

372. Phil – April 25, 2014

@371. I think you DO know the answer to that – just look at the comments on the Axanar thread. Any and all comments that were not sycophantic expressions of love and adoration were attacked with verbal fists of fury.

Are you kidding here?

Have you forgotten about the whole Bob Orci meltdown last Summer?

I don’t recall the Axanar director telling you to “F*CK OFF.”

Anyway, I’d rather see a movie made by a filmmaker with vision who’s got the guts to make a good product IN SPITE of what the money advises him to do than a run-of-the-mill product churned out by someone entrenched in the Hollywood system who’s well practiced as saying, “Yes, Sir” to his corporate overlords. If his product makes money for the studio, the maverick filmmaker might likely be re-hired. If it doesn’t make money, at least he’ll have made an honest, ambitious work. And I’d rather see one honest, ambitious attempt at a Trek movie than another dozen BR Trek movies that don’t hold up well after their theatrical run, anyway.

377. Keachick (Rose) - April 25, 2014

The issue brought up by Cygnus-X1 about some posters here being “starstruck by celebrity” and apparently showing signs of “fan-giddiness” also related these factors to some inability for “rational discernment”. This was made by someone who has constantly criticized the last Star Trek film that Bob Orci co-wrote.

It was a more personal comment directed at various people (without naming names) than other comments have been. When I disputed this, the offending poster then points to my own lamentations, which he obviously sees as being the result of my being “starstruck” and having “fan-giddiness”, about Chris Pine’s faux pas. Never mind that, within my posts of the time, there was expression of genuine concern and knowledge of, for example, how insidious the effects of alcohol can have on a person, the need for care etc. I would think that my expression was not just impassioned but rational as well…

My concern had to do with the notion that people cannot express their love or liking of a product or someone while, at the same time, being able to have “rational discernment”. This seemed to be what Cygnus-X1 was implying by the statement – “People get a bit starstruck when a celebrity makes an appearance and fan-giddiness tends to obscure rational discernment.”

People can be both – be emotional and rational all at once
or simple be emotional but not expressing much that is rational.

The latter is what I have seen expressed a lot in this thread, as in the reason for Bob Orci to not be director is because “I don’t like his writing” or “because STID sucks”. These are just two examples of negative emotionalism without much of an empirical knowledgeable rationale.

378. Cygnus-X1 - April 25, 2014

373. Marja – April 25, 2014

Heh. I’d venture to say that there was some serious ego and pride involved in that reaction. Nobody ever said the man was without his faults.

I find the bit about Nick Meyer interesting. A total novice to Trek who’d just directed “Time After Time” (I’ve always loved that movie), and look at what he accomplished on a relatively tiny budget (TWOK).

379. Cygnus-X1 - April 25, 2014

P.S. Looks like Nick Meyer is going to be busy directing “LOVE AFFAIR,” anyway.

380. Red Dead Ryan - April 25, 2014

For the most part, the fan productions’ technical aspects — set design, visual effects, make-up — are well done. But let’s face it, the plots of these series aren’t really all that different from what was done during TOS or some of the later shows and movies.

All I’ve seen are variations of themes already done before. And in many fan episodes, there’s a lot of “pew pew!” “KA-POW!” “KA-BOOM!” “SMASH!” going on. The same thing that Cygnus and others cite in their complaints about the BR movies.

381. Cygnus-X1 - April 25, 2014

375. Keachick (Rose) – April 25, 2014

OMG, would you chillax?

I wasn’t even referring to you.

I was referring to the bunch of people who suddenly come out of the woodwork to cheer on the famous guy when he makes an appearance, and then disappear until he makes another comment and there’s an opportunity to maybe get a personal response from him. And that’s fine. I’m not even knocking these people. I was just putting some of the comments into perspective.

So why don’t you just kick back with a Zespri and enjoy the Trek talk. No need to look for personal slights where none are intended. :-)

382. Ahmed - April 25, 2014

@ 378. Red Dead Ryan – April 25, 2014

“And in many fan episodes, there’s a lot of “pew pew!” “KA-POW!” “KA-BOOM!” “SMASH!” going on.”

lol, you should ask Bob to hire you as a sound editor :-)

383. Keachick (Rose) - April 25, 2014

#379 – OK – fair enough – sort of…/:

384. Silvereyes - April 25, 2014

308 Rose

You said: “As far back as this post, what you wrote was reeked with sarcasm as well as being obviously ignorant – hiring writers who have nothing to their credit? Incorrect. So you know that Bob Orci (presumably the one you refer to as having “career ambition in fields…”) has no knowledge? Yet another non-sequitur comment.”

I wasn’t talking about Orci!! I was talking about Payne and McKay, OBVIOUSLY. How can anyone miss that? Are all your arguments based on your false interpretations and inability to read your own language (which, by the way, is not even my own, as English is my second language)?

You said: “Your posts come across to me as being someone who is overly emotional without having the rationality to balance it. So you are allowed to be emotional (and call posters like Phil as being “hot gas”) but I can’t be? Nice one – not!”

I never called Phil hot gas. I said his arguments were hot gas! Stop twisting around my meaning to give credence to your illogical arguments. Another example to show that your rant is based on blind fury and not calm rational thinking.

You said: “So have you been personal – from your very first post…and then you query as to whether I am a 20 something and impune my intelligence and even manage to bring ageist crap into the argument.”

I have been personal in stating my opinion. An opinion is by definition personal. While you meddled in a discussion that did not concern you, that I had been having with Phil and you even had the nerve to end your post by telling me “Your stupidity, ignorance and arrogance are undeniable.” And you’re calling ME arrogant?

You are obviously irrational and have severe anger management issues. This is the last post I will write on this subject, as unlike you, I have a life and don’t relish blasting complete strangers on the Internet just because I can’t accept differing opinions and can’t admit when I’ve crossed the line and behaved like an uncivilized brute.

However, please do continue your incessant rant, as you have done with others in the past. I enjoy watching you make a fool of yourself.

385. somethoughts - April 25, 2014

congrats boborci, rock it!

386. Phil - April 25, 2014

@374. If you are going to respond to a post, stay on topic. The comments on the Axanar thread speak for themselves, and the reference is appropriate to the question.

387. Ahmed - April 25, 2014

A fun Star Trek quiz

======================

How Well Do You Know “Star Trek”?

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/pioneers-of-television/trivia/how-well-do-you-know-star-trek/

======================
Got 10 out of 11, I’m now a Starfleet Admiral :-)

388. Red Dead Ryan - April 25, 2014

#385.

HA! I got 11 out of 11.

So I’m now Chancellor of the Klingon High Council!

:-)

389. Cygnus-X1 - April 25, 2014

384. Phil – April 25, 2014

@374. If you are going to respond to a post, stay on topic.

Sure, but how is it off-topic to point out that the potential problem that you raised with regard to a non-franchise director doing a franchise movie does not appear to be any more or less of a problem for the Axanar director than it has been for Bob Orci?

The comments on the Axanar thread speak for themselves, and the reference is appropriate to the question.

As do Orci’s past comments speak for themselves and are equally appropriate to reference.

390. Mike Barnett - April 25, 2014

@385

11/11….it said I was an Admiral!

391. Disinvited - April 25, 2014

#371. Red Dead Ryan – April 25, 2014

“amateur directors don’t have to worry about … trying to manage the countless egos on a movie set.” – Red Dead Ryan

LOL. I have been an amateur writer/director and I can assure you that if egos were worth something amateur productions would be blockbusters.

#376. Cygnus-X1 – April 25, 2014

I love TIME AFTER TIME too, but as Janet Maslin’s review of it essentially says: it works in spite of his direction, not because of it.

392. Ahmed - April 25, 2014

388. Red Dead Ryan – April 25, 2014

” #385.

HA! I got 11 out of 11.

So I’m now Chancellor of the Klingon High Council!
:-)”

Congratulations, your Highness :-)

I missed the one about the alien who killed Tasha Yar, couldn’t remember its name!!

393. Phil - April 25, 2014

@387 You’re so far off the reservation now with your ‘anyone but Bob’ rant that you’re trying to build an argument that a hobbyist would be a better choice. That’s not a potential problem, that’s a 100% guaranteed, take it to the bank disaster. At this point if someone suggested my cat direct, you’d be all over it.

And your comparison is invalid, at all levels. The guys who run these fan productions react with open hostility at any and all questions directed their way, and have no problem branding anyone asking even benign questions as disloyal and bandwagon fans. Bob has had mountains of personal insults hurled his way, he blows a gasket once, and you find that to be a valid comparison? You’re spinning so much here the vertigo must be upsetting your stomach. Go grab some Pepto and relax. And try to stay on topic, it’s easier for people to take you a bit more seriously that way.

Cheers…

394. boborci - April 25, 2014

alll this debate about little ole’ me?

If you care to suggest things, like me, or hate me, you can find me on twitter @realboborci

395. Ahmed - April 25, 2014

@ 394. boborci – April 25, 2014

“If you care to suggest things, like me, or hate me, you can find me on twitter @realboborci”

TIL that your brother JR Orci is behind “The Blacklist”, fascinating! You should try to get James Spader in the next movie if possible.

396. Cygnus-X1 - April 25, 2014

391. Disinvited – April 25, 2014

I love TIME AFTER TIME too, but as Janet Maslin’s review of it essentially says: it works in spite of his direction, not because of it.

Hm. It was Nick Meyer’s first directorial effort.

What problems did you have with the directing specifically?

397. Silvereyes - April 25, 2014

394 boborci

Nobody said it was going to be easy…

398. Cygnus-X1 - April 25, 2014

393. Phil – April 25, 2014

@387 You’re so far off the reservation now with your ‘anyone but Bob’ rant that you’re trying to build an argument that a hobbyist would be a better choice. That’s not a potential problem, that’s a 100% guaranteed, take it to the bank disaster. At this point if someone suggested my cat direct, you’d be all over it.

Axanar appears to be a serious, though non-franchise, production. You can denigrate it if you like, but that doesn’t make it a valid point. But, tell me more about this cat of yours.

And your comparison is invalid, at all levels. The guys who run these fan productions react with open hostility at any and all questions directed their way, and have no problem branding anyone asking even benign questions as disloyal and bandwagon fans. Bob has had mountains of personal insults hurled his way, he blows a gasket once, and you find that to be a valid comparison?

You’re exaggerating the comments by the Axanar director and downplaying the comments by Orci. It is absolutely a valid comparison.

You’re spinning so much here the vertigo must be upsetting your stomach. Go grab some Pepto and relax. And try to stay on topic, it’s easier for people to take you a bit more seriously that way.

Well, isn’t that nice.

I am just fine, thank you, and quite on-topic. It was you, need I remind you, who raised the issue of non-franchise productions in the first place. If you don’t want people talking about a topic, then don’t bring it up. So…mmk?

399. Cygnus-X1 - April 25, 2014

380. Red Dead Ryan – April 25, 2014

All I’ve seen are variations of themes already done before. And in many fan episodes, there’s a lot of “pew pew!” “KA-POW!” “KA-BOOM!” “SMASH!” going on. The same thing that Cygnus and others cite in their complaints about the BR movies.

There was almost none of that in the two ST Continues episodes so far. Almost none in Phase 2’s “World Enough…” and several of the others.

By far the biggest advantage of the franchise productions over the non-franchise is the actors. You do tend to get what you can afford to pay for, and great actors don’t come cheap. Still, there have been some surprisingly good performances in non-franchise productions, particularly when seasoned actors have decided to participate.

400. Phil - April 25, 2014

@394. Unless you need an !n$ur@nce guy my twitter messages are going to be rather boring….

401. Cygnus-X1 - April 25, 2014

Even if you have !n$ur@nce, you can always use a little more.

Am I right, or am I right? Or am I right…

402. Curious Cadet - April 25, 2014

@353. Phil,
“My son is in theater in high school, and, on occasion, you’ll hear a few of the kids start in with ‘we are as good as…’, at which point the responsible adults in the room will need to gently remind them that they are still learning their craft… In the context of HS theater, the kids are very good, but it would be incredibly unfair to them to compare them to Broadway.”

I know you are talking about fan films, but let me just point out that your son has more experience as an actual actor in his HS plays than Orci does as a director … of ANYTHING. And before you lump me in with all the other “haters”, I agree with you. Everything else on Orci’s resume definitely put him in a unique position to potentially bypass film school and the usual DGA apprenticeship process. But at the end of the day, he’s still never done it, so we don’t know if he’s a budding Orson Wells or typical William Shatner. He will be “learning his craft” as he goes if he directs a $150 million, highly anticipated Summer blockbuster sequel of a sucessful 50 year old franchise. Nothing like learning on the job though … I can just hear him on his second day … “Whats so special about Abrams, Bay, and Favreau? … I’m as good as them …” Hopefully the responsible adults in the room will gently remind him he’s still learning his craft …

403. Bill Peters - April 25, 2014

BobOrci I will be glad to support you as Director and anything else….you have done good by trek as far as I am Concerned. You have shown that you know the Marteral and that you know Trek over all and you have shown that you know how to weave Trek Themes into a Modren Movie without making it too Boring.

404. Phil - April 25, 2014

@398. My crime on the Axanar site was to comment on compensation – there appears to be some contradictory information out there. Regardless, Mr. Peters was incensed that I brought it up. A few fairly innocent questions about artistic direction further upset him, and those in complete lockstep with his vision of the Trek universe. Their comments stand on their own, I don’t need to elaborate on WHAT THEY SAID! I don’t need to exaggerate anything, it’s right there in black and white. As is Bob’s single episode, which is over and done. It isn’t I trying to spin this.

Yes, I did bring it up, to address a question about how thick skinned a fan lead production would have to be. You are the one attempting to make this a ‘if/then’ debate, and dragging in other non related comments to deflect from the topic.

At this point, things are going to unfold as they should. Whatever Paramount decides isn’t going to be influenced by any back and fourth going on here, certainly, no one here has made a compelling argument as to why he isn’t qualified, it’s just opinion. So, you keep yours, and lets move on…..

405. Silvereyes - April 25, 2014

400 Phil

If you’re in !n$ur@nce, I believe you’re in the right line of work (judging from the riguor of your arguments). I may not agree with you, that doesn’t mean I can’t appreciate your debating skills.

Why is this site filtering the word !n$ur@nce?

406. Ahmed - April 25, 2014

@ 405. Silvereyes – April 25, 2014

“Why is this site filtering the word !n$ur@nce?”

Guess that AP has an issue or something against that industry!

407. Disinvited - April 25, 2014

#396. Cygnus-X1 – April 25, 2014

Rather than derail the chain with it:

http://www.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=9E02E7D81638E732A2575BC2A96F9C946890D6CF

What she said.

408. Bill Peters - April 25, 2014

Phil what was I Incensed by???

409. Ahmed - April 25, 2014

@404. Phil

“At this point, things are going to unfold as they should. Whatever Paramount decides isn’t going to be influenced by any back and fourth going on here, certainly, no one here has made a compelling argument as to why he isn’t qualified, it’s just opinion. ”

So when you support the idea, it is a fact but when someone argue against it, it is just an opinion! Lovely

410. Phil - April 25, 2014

@408. A different person, and I may have misspoke the name. Please accept my apologies.

411. Phil - April 25, 2014

@409. When someone puts an orange on the table, when person A says it’s an orange, yes, that’s a fact. When person B says it’s something else, that is an opinion, and the burden of proof falls on them to support it.

412. Keachick - April 25, 2014

Silvereyes – Perhaps if you had actually clarified which writers you were referring to, then I might not have misunderstood you. You referred to the writers and the wannabe director as “budding movie “pros” who have career ambitions in fields they know nothing about”.

Then again, I was referring to your entire statement. Perhaps it might be true of Payne and McKay, although I also think that is not quite true, but it is NOT the case with Bob Orci. Roberto Orci, I would say, knows a lot about the various fields of movie making and to suggest otherwise does make your statement appear ignorant.

The reality is that TPTB have not said Yes to Bob Orci’s application, but neither have they said No at this point either. The fact that this is a matter even for their consideration makes your statement above incorrect and irrelevant or shall we say, as much “hot gas” as anything Phil might have said. More so, actually, since it is not based on any factual evidence, but your own emotions and dislike of BR Star Trek.

Also, it is likely that JD Payne and Patrick McKay, relative newcomers to screenwriting, are on something of a real learning curve, given that they are involved in writing scripts for major movies. This won’t necessarily make them ready to become producers, let alone, directors, but given time, experience and success, you never know. People have to start somewhere.

I think that we have both made fools of ourselves, but the question is – who is the bigger fool right now? Perhaps it is me, because I bother myself with having to explain basics to you. I won’t bother anymore, since your own intellectual capacities are also questionable right now.

Happy now?…:(

413. Disinvited - April 25, 2014

#405. Silvereyes – April 25, 2014

It may have to do with the root word of rancid which is an old obsolete Scot word for sewer that seems quite slangy and may reverberate with other conotations?

414. Ahmed - April 25, 2014

@411. Phil

If someone need a surgery, he will goes for a surgeon, not a gastroenterologist. And if you want to fix your computer hardware, you will go to the computer maintenance guy.

Same thing with movies, you want a director, you hire a director or an assistant director or second unit director. That is a fact.

415. Ahmed - April 25, 2014

Here is a formula to make things easy for you

First time director + first time writers = potential problems

416. Disinvited - April 25, 2014

#411. Phil – April 25, 2014

You are WRONG! That’s a fruit, not a color.

[CASE CLOSED]

:-))))))

417. Phil - April 25, 2014

@402. Well, they are currently working on Almost, Maine, and my son is an assistant director this time out. From what I’ve learned the last couple of years, I’d not compare theater to motion pictures at all.

However, you have done a marvelous job illustrating the process I’d expect Paramount and Bad Robot to exercise in dealing with a new director. Bob would need to argue persuasively that his range of experience has prepared him for the directors chair. If he doesn’t get the gig, then obviously he wasn’t convincing. Bob would still be responsible to the producers and studio, and it is within their right to provide the necessary level of oversight. Bob isn’t Orson Welles, and would probably have a hard time arguing for complete creative control.

My position hasn’t been, should Paramount hire him, it’s that his professional experience, his association with Bad Robot, and recommendations make him a qualified candidate. Qualified enough to get the job, well, that remains to be seen.

418. Silvereyes - April 25, 2014

412 Keachick

“I think that we have both made fools of ourselves, but the question is – who is the bigger fool right now? Perhaps it is me, because I bother myself with having to explain basics to you. I won’t bother anymore, since your own intellectual capacities are also questionable right now.

Happy now?…:(”

LOL well coming from you, I’m taking this as a big “let’s be friends hug”!

Yes, I agree with your last paragraph 100%. I do appreciate you including yourself in this as well. I will take my share of the responsibility and as such, will apologise in return.

Yes, I am happy now :)

419. Phil - April 25, 2014

@414. Yep. And every surgeon has his first patient….

420. Phil - April 25, 2014

@416. Boy, it would really suck if I was color blind now…. :-)

421. Silvereyes - April 25, 2014

419 Phil

“@414. Yep. And every surgeon has his first patient….”

Yep. But he started out as a surgeon (studies, internship), not as an electrical engineer.

422. Disinvited - April 25, 2014

#414. Ahmed – April 25, 2014

Unless of course you choose Buckaroo Bonzai. In which case, I ask him, “Doc, why do you have recourse to surgery when you can go across the 5th dimension?

423. Ahmed - April 25, 2014

@ 419. Phil – April 25, 2014

“@414. Yep. And every surgeon has his first patient….”

Yep, after formal studies & residency for 10 years or longer, not by hanging around the OR.

424. Ahmed - April 25, 2014

@ 422. Disinvited – April 25, 2014

“Unless of course you choose Buckaroo Bonzai. In which case, I ask him, “Doc, why do you have recourse to surgery when you can go across the 5th dimension?”

lol, a good question

425. Phil - April 25, 2014

@421, 423. Preparation aside, he isn’t a surgeon until he sticks a knife in his first patient. It’s immaterial what happened prior to getting to that point, as long as he met the criteria to legally pick up that knife, he can then call him(her)self a surgeon.

The only reason this is a debate is that there are people who are accepting his professional development as criteria for consideration for the position, and others aren’t. Clearly, the studio is, the only question remains is are there enough pros to outweigh the cons. If so, he gets the job. If not, then no.

426. Bill Peters - April 25, 2014

Phil has a point good point.

427. Disinvited - April 25, 2014

#425. Phil – April 25, 2014

Question:Is there a way you can sell Bob Grey a policy ensuring Paramount won’t lose their investment in hiring one Roberto Gaston Orci to direct?

I’m probably more interested in what kind of conditions have to be met to issue a failure to perform policy if such a thing is possible? I mean I assume studios have life innsurance on all key parties involved, and Hollywood’s “legs” policy is well-known…

428. Ahmed - April 25, 2014

@425. Phil

“The only reason this is a debate is that there are people who are accepting his professional development as criteria for consideration for the position, and others aren’t. Clearly, the studio is, the only question remains is are there enough pros to outweigh the cons. If so, he gets the job. If not, then no.”

Bad Robot is supporting it; however, Paramount is “being cautious” as it was reported. Guess that we will find out in the coming weeks, if not days.

429. Cygnus-X1 - April 25, 2014

404. Phil – April 25, 2014

@398. My crime on the Axanar site was to comment on compensation – there appears to be some contradictory information out there. Regardless, Mr. Peters was incensed that I brought it up. A few fairly innocent questions about artistic direction further upset him, and those in complete lockstep with his vision of the Trek universe. Their comments stand on their own, I don’t need to elaborate on WHAT THEY SAID!

The director got a bit defensive in response to your comments, but he didn’t have a melt-down or tell you to “F*CK OFF.” And I don’t know who you are referring to as being “in lockstep” but I don’t recall getting upset with you or having an unpleasant exchange with you.

I don’t need to exaggerate anything, it’s right there in black and white. As is Bob’s single episode, which is over and done.

It wasn’t a single episode. It was blowing up here at Ahmed and a few other exchanges on Twitter. They all happened close together in time, over a few days or a week as I recall, but it wasn’t just one comment. And the same is true of the comments by Alec Peters. A few comments over a couple of days. Sorry, dude, but it is a reasonable comparison. Not that I even care much, mind you. I was just rebutting a point that YOU came up with.

430. Cygnus-X1 - April 25, 2014

411. Phil – April 25, 2014

@409. When someone puts an orange on the table, when person A says it’s an orange, yes, that’s a fact. When person B says it’s something else, that is an opinion, and the burden of proof falls on them to support it.

Oh, so now Bob Orci is an orange?

Bob, are you going to stand for this INSOLENCE?

;-)

431. Marja - April 25, 2014

387, Ahmed, 11/11. Today is a good day to trivialize!

432. Curious Cadet - April 25, 2014

@426 Bill Peters,

Do you sometimes use the initials M & J? ;-)

@425. Phil,
“Preparation aside, he isn’t a surgeon until he sticks a knife in his first patient. It’s immaterial what happened prior to getting to that point”

Here’s the difference… That immaterial preparation involves a lot of supervised knife-sticking into cadavers, as well as assisting in the OR on live patients. So when the surgeon does legally stick the knife into his first patient solo, there’s already a lot of experience behind him. Orci is like a surgeon who audited med school, but never cut into anything. He has all of the knowledge, but who knows what will happen when he sticks a knife into his first patient. He may be a natural, or he may faint dead away.

433. Cygnus-X1 - April 25, 2014

425. Phil – April 25, 2014

@421, 423. Preparation aside, he isn’t a surgeon until he sticks a knife in his first patient. It’s immaterial what happened prior to getting to that point, as long as he met the criteria to legally pick up that knife, he can then call him(her)self a surgeon.

The only reason this is a debate is that there are people who are accepting his professional development as criteria for consideration for the position, and others aren’t.

It’s not just about mechanical skills. Mechanics are part of it. Knowing how to use the equipment properly is part of it. But another, BIG, part of it is VISION. What is your vision for the movie? What kind of story do you want to tell? How are you choosing to interpret what is on the page? What is the “POINT” of the movie, i.e. the THEME.

On that last point alone, as writer of ST09 and STID, Bob has been WOEFULLY LACKING in the theme department. He just doesn’t seem to have a good grasp of how to develop a theme throughout a movie. And the movie’s theme is its primary thread, its overarching support, its subsurface foundation—whatever metaphor works for you, the theme is the most important part. Without a coherent, compelling theme, what you’ve got is maybe a character study, some pretty photographs, cool sounds, and neat-o flashing lights to titillate your brain’s optic lobe. And you can still go pretty far with all of that sensory stuff—look at what JJ Abrams did with it in his two at-bats as Trek director.

But Star Trek deserves more than superficial, fleeting moments of pleasure. Star Trek deserves MEANING. And Bob Orci—nice guy that he is, and as I’ve said previously, he seems like he’d be fun to get drunk with and talk Trek—is, I’m sorry to say, LOUSY at developing themes. And he’s not even particularly good at character study or plot construction.

So, at the end of the day, what you’ve got is a writer with a lot of experience on set, who hasn’t demonstrated the sort of VISION that a good director needs to have. The director is the captain of the ship. He’s telling the story. And Bob Orci still needs plenty of training in that skill.

434. Disinvited - April 25, 2014

# 430. Cygnus-X1 – April 25, 2014

” Oh, so now Bob Orci is an orange?” – Cygnus-X1

Bob,

Orange you glad he didn’t say bananas?

435. Bill Peters - April 25, 2014

No this is the only name I use on Trekmovie or anywhere else…I find it Interesting that people want Orci banned from the Directors seat caue they hate 09 or STID or both…they want “Real”Trek back cause somehow Star Trek that is popular with the masses is watered down, fans should Clamor for Parmount to go back to Trek Flims only being a Nich Market and only coming out when Parmount is low on Trek Money or feels it might lose the Trek Brand…to Pull in General Audances hurst Trek, that somehow Trek is best when it Cererabal, has Devoted fans but General Audancs don’t go to see it unless they have a Interst in Trek…Why do you want us to go back there?

Also there are complants that STID is too Dark, Please Ever Watched DS9? Gene in the 60’s keep a good balance of the Optomism we like but also the Realisim of the times the show was made in, in Next Gen he did a lot of Optomism but also in the end it had to be Balanced out that not everything was cherry. You have to make a Star Trek Movie that both has Optomisim but also deals with feelings of the real world around us.

Most General Audances like fast paced flims with lots of Action, if it tells a good story they like it even more but fans are like we want Star Trek IV or VI where General Audances may not want to wait though lots of Diolage to get to the Good Fight Sences and actions Sequances…we have to deal with what people want now to make a Sucessful Trek Flim not what worked in the past but might not past muster now…

436. Bill Peters - April 25, 2014

I find it Amazing that a lot of Trek fans with JJ Abrams Trek can’t Live with IDIC for the new Trek Films…they want Trek to be one way…and that is the way they like it.

I think I can live with IDIC for Star Trek 2016 :)

437. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - April 25, 2014

@387. Ahmed – April 25, 2014

Thanks for posting that, Ahmed. I’m Chancellor of the Klingon High Council too…

That was a bit of fun to brighten my Saturday morning :-)

438. Bill Peters - April 25, 2014

I love Every Official Star Trek that is out there for one Reason or another, I don’t as some fans do say DS9 or VOY or ENT or Star Trek V are not Real Trek they are but they are there own take on Trek. I love some of the Fan Productions and watching them but I really wish that some of the Fan Productions would lobby CBS to Pick Trek up again.

439. Disinvited - April 25, 2014

#432. Curious Cadet – April 25, 2014

Bill’s typos and misspellings don’t match. You, however, have a more than frequent propensity for sharing Mr. double consonants’ habit of misspelling “rogue” as “rouge” but when I try to wrap my head around what that may imply, it hurts too much so I prefer to think the better of you.

440. Bill Peters - April 25, 2014

You Try thinking and typing with High Functioning Autism while, thinking about Six things simontunusly at once and Figure out if you’re spelling might not be the best.

441. dmduncan - April 25, 2014

Hey, it’s got nothing to do with being “starstruck.” At least not for me. You guys just don’t understand the job of directing. JJ does. And that’s why he supports Bob. None of your analogies to other jobs are relevant.

Doesn’t mean Bob is guaranteed to make a great movie. But none of the arguments you Negative Nancys are making means he’s guaranteed to make a bad or even mediocre one either.

I like his odds and, really, odds are all any of us are figuring. I tend to favor wildcards, maybe because I’m one myself, and people have put bets on me with great success.

442. dmduncan - April 25, 2014

394. boborci – April 25, 2014

I thought you went private? Ok. I’ll follow if you’re open, to see where you’re at these days.

443. boborci - April 25, 2014

anyone doing anything fun this weekend?

444. Bill Peters - April 25, 2014

Going to spend time with Friends Bob Saturday and Sunday, Going to watch a lot of DS9 this weekend and TNG.

445. boborci - April 25, 2014

443. good idea. Should have a marathon of my own.

446. Bill Peters - April 25, 2014

Any Episodes that you are think are great for Waching from eather Series Bob? or one that are good to start people off with for both Series besdies the Premires?

447. Mike Barnett - April 25, 2014

442. boborci

My son, John, is 21 on Sunday so we’ll have a nice dinner and desert….before he goes to a bar with friends for ONE drink!

448. dmduncan - April 25, 2014

–> In a little while, sitting by a fire under the Milky Way.

449. TUP - April 25, 2014

@165 YESSSSS a disaster. I didnt specify financial because Im not an idiot. It made money. Probably not as much as they wanted and thats due to poor word of mouth because it was a lousy film and an even lousier Trek film.

There were things to like. But what stuck in my ribs is the fact the mistakes were all things that intelligent trekers would not make. That is what worries about Orci helming the next one.

If you want to write original characters in original stories in original concepts, create a franchise. If you want to do Star Trek, do Star Trek.

450. dmduncan - April 25, 2014

Learning to identify satellites from the more unusual stuff.

451. Mike Barnett - April 25, 2014

448. TUP

The best of both worlds (pun intended) is to have Trek back on TV … for the Star Trek that everyone enjoys. Then have an exciting action Trek movie in the theaters every few years that will pull in more of a general audience.

Bob Orci – – you can do both, right???

452. Jonboc - April 25, 2014

Heading to the Texas Motor Speedway in Fort Worth for a crazy-huge swap meet. Looking for old drive-in speakers and 35mm film reels for my media room. Then I get to mow the yard. Oh joy.

453. Captain, USS Northstar - April 25, 2014

I took the PBS quiz, scored 10 of 11 and ranked “Starfleet Admiral.”

To Mr. Orci, I say: “If you get the job, congratulations! You’ll do us proud.

“Engage!”

454. Harry Ballz - April 25, 2014

#442 boborci “anyone doing anything fun this weekend?”

Yeah, Bob, I’m taking a course at my local college. Film Direction 101.

Maybe I’ll see you there!

455. Ahmed - April 25, 2014

@ 453. Harry Ballz – April 25, 2014

“Yeah, Bob, I’m taking a course at my local college. Film Direction 101.”

Are you trying to take the job from Bob or what :-)

456. Ahmed - April 25, 2014

@ 442. boborci – April 25, 2014

“anyone doing anything fun this weekend?”

Going to Calgary Expo. Here are pictures, taken by someone else, of The Parade of Wonders at downtown Calgary today

https://imgur.com/a/pwqqB

457. Hugh Hoyland - April 25, 2014

442. boborci – April 25, 2014
anyone doing anything fun this weekend?

Just yard work here and maybe write something.

OT here a little but do you ever see a Khan stand alone movie Bob?

458. Ahmed - April 25, 2014

@431. Marja, 437. ObsessiveStarTrekFan

You are most welcome, Chancellors :-)

459. AJ - April 25, 2014

Bob:

I will echo the prevailing sentiment about TV:

Can you and Alex K. use your TV clout to get our show ‘pitched’ to CBS for the small screen successfully? That’s where the 50th anniversary should be, anyway.

Trying to please everyone on the big screen, and make a billion dollars in the process, is going to be a lead balloon anyway.

460. Phil - April 25, 2014

Some yard work, seeing a client (or two), working on a fundraising guide for the performing arts conservatory that is starting up at my son’s HS theater this summer. Need to find about 85K for it by the end of the year…..

While the conversation about professional qualifications is on peoples minds, I’d like to encourage anyone reading to get behind the arts at your local HS level. There is quite a void in exposure to the arts in HS (athletics usually gets most of the attention) and getting kids exposed to music, theater, dance, and the related tech and management functions does better prepare them for careers in the arts – more importantly, it creates interest at a much younger age. It’s also quite fulfilling when they create, and for the few who have a real passion for this, it’s a joy to watch that voyage of discovery.

461. Phil - April 25, 2014

I miss Science Saturday. And Elon Musk is the man. They need to name a starship after him in the next movie.

This is big news…
http://news.yahoo.com/elon-musks-space-x-claims-evolutionary-breakthrough-rocket-181402762.html

462. Disinvited - April 25, 2014

Came across the following interesting quote while trying to track down the current duties of a television show runner:

“Back in the 1970s, the Academy Award nominees and huge box office hits were things like The French Connection, Midnight Cowboy or The Graduate – really interesting character studies. Now, the big box office successes are superhero stories. It seems there’s a lowest common denominator mentality, in terms of movies that are almost purely visual, that anyone can understand anywhere in the world. Good robot, bad robot: they fight. You don’t need to know anything apart from that. And then we can make toys that look like that robot – and sell those toys or video games.” – Terence Winter at the Paris’ Forum des Images festival

463. Bucky - April 25, 2014

Give Orci the directing gig! He’s obviously passionate about the subject and one would assume he kind of knows how filmmaking works and Bad Robot is behind it. They gave a movie to Shatner! And since I’m knee deep in the IDW series I’m sure Orci will throw in little tidbits of canon in there. As for if it’s too difficult for a newbie director, I am reminded of this quote from Argo:

“Can you teach somebody to be a director in a day?”
“You can teach a rhesus monkey to be a director in a day.”

464. Buzz Cagney - April 25, 2014

#394 Oh no, not hunting for ideas again?! That pretty shameless in my opinion.
You gave the fans what they apparently wanted with Into Dorkness and that wasn’t exactly an inspired movie.
Come on, earn your money, Bob. You come up with something this time.

465. BillyBoy - April 25, 2014

@ 7. “Whatever else you may say about him, his commitment to Star Trek cannot be called into question”

I, for one, WOULD call it into question. Other franchises took off with a boom because the teams behind them knew when to strike when the iron was hot and made it their main priority. Trek itself did so in the 80s when Nick Meyer and Harve Bennett were in charge. But even though a sequel for the 2009 movie was greenlit while it was still in theaters, we waited four years for a followup movie. That’s because the team
behind the 2009 movie treated it like a side project and went to work on other stuff and hadn’t even begun a script two years later, despite
claiming it was nearly finished and they were “working hard” on it. Instead, their main priorities were with projects like Cowboys & Aliens. By the time the belated sequel came out, most of the new fans from 2009 had forgotten about Star Trek and moved on to other things.
Orci’s very knowledgeable about Star Trek, but committed to working hard on it? I have my doubts.

466. JRT! - April 26, 2014

Bob – nothing fun this weekend,but going to New York next weekend. Looking forward to getting outta this country,and gonna see new Spidey movie. I’ll let ya know what I think,lol! Are YOU doing anything fun this weekend? And good luck getting the directing gig.

Have fun y’all!

John-Robin!

467. Stephan - April 26, 2014

@boborci:

Funny to see these news. ;) A few months ago I asked you what about you directing Trek. You answered, maybe one time when you would have grown up. So what happened that you grew up? ;)

I keep the fingers crossed that you get the job because I have thought a few months ago it could be good for the movie. Do I know if you are qualified? No. But I know you have the passion for Trek. So best wishes from me that you will be the new director. I would like to see your complete vision of a trek movie.

Stephan

468. Picard, Jean-Luc - April 26, 2014

@464

That isn’t the fault of Abrams or Bad Robot. They (Bad Robot) wanted to strike while the iron was hot. Paramount and CBS however… They have done nothing but been completely paranoid about over saturating the market with Star Trek and that in turn has lead to Star Trek being in the position it is in now, two movies in 5 years, underwhelming growth in new audiences and a brand that hasn’t really got the mass appeal I think Paramount wanted when they gave $190 million to make Into Darkness. Throw in a few piss-poor merchandise tie-ins with Hasbro and an awful video game made worse by Paramount promising a revolutionary gaming experience, leaves you with the sense that these big studios don’t really know how to manage big franchises.

And it’s not just Star Trek. DC are in a very similar situation. Brilliant Dark Knight movies, a promising start with Man of Steel but compare DC to MARVEL? Marvel is kicking DC’s ass! Why? Because Marvel runs it’s own shit… It may have to answer to Disney but by and large Disney have left it to do what Marvel does best!

I think CBS and Paramount should look at how well Disney have nurtured studios like Pixar and Marvel and themselves create a Star Trek Studio. This would work in an identical way to how Marvel Studio’s works now. Run by a Kevin Feige or Kathleen Kennedy type who would answer to Paramount and CBS but ultimately be responsible for producing Star Trek productions as well as anything that directly ties into the live-action movies and TV series such as video games, comic books.

I think this separation between Paramount and CBS is ultimately to blame here. With one studio not working well with the other, the franchise is being torn and distorted. I think creating a middle ground where the man or woman in charge would meet with both sides when developing a new Star Trek production is the way forward. Roberto Orci seems to be passionate enough to take it on.

469. Disinvited - April 26, 2014

I believe I have an answer to the question: “Will a studio turn a blockbuster sized production budget over to a first time director?

The resource I have used is imdb.com and for the purposes of seeking in a manageable manner I have taken the approach that if the first time directors might have prior work not listed in the imdb, then those works are not germane as, if those directors haven’t bothered to make sure they are noted then they were most likely not factors of any significance in their getting hired for their first gigs. Other mitigating factors that I was unable to take into account are foreign born directors who may have had access to better than U.S. arts education who were able to take advantage of government supported projects and programs such as those offered through the BBC and CBC. But then, if I recall correctly, Orci wasn’t born in the U.S. so I have no idea what opportunities that may have afforded him, in his formative years, either?

Simon West first time directed CON AIR. Estimated budget $75 million (adjusted for inflation $110 million).

The answer appears to be: yes.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0922346/?ref_=tt_ov_dr#director

470. Flake - April 26, 2014

I am not fussed who directs it. Bob Orci will have a great team around him to advise and suggest etc. I don’t see the problem with it.

What I am disappointed with is the lack of Trek at the moment. This is down to CBS and their reluctance to do anything except remaster the old stuff which is fantastic! and I applaud them for doing it so well however in addition to this I want something new.

I think CBS are reluctant to sink a substantial sum of money into a live action show which by its very nature would be very very expensive relative to whatever reality show or cheap comedy they can come up with instead. For one Trek show they could probably make umpteen other ones. So this is perfectly understandable I guess. My advice to CBS is to make an animation in the prime universe, TNG era, and see what sort of response you get from the Trekkies around the world. I would think a show featuring the voices of all the TNG era actors would be great, cheap and able to show us a grander vision of Starfleet, The Federation and the Galaxy than a live action show could ever offer and at a tiny fraction of the price. Make it so please.

Seriously, get in touch with me CBS and I would fly to you tomorrow and make it happen ! Cheap and Profitable (My CV? I am a lifelong Trekkie which is more than enough! ;p )

We all miss that era and all the actors are still here and I am sure they would love to lend their voices. Assemble some of the old writing team and some new blood (+ me :P ) Patrick Stewart as Jean-Luc Picard… Brent Spiner returns as Data (who has in effect taken over B4 thanks to his memory transfer during Nemesis, the digital version of the mind ‘meld’ in TWOK)

I could talk about this all day.

New Trek movie in the new continuity? Yes great, hurry up, choose a director and get it done/make it so. Both would co-exist. CBS, please give us something to get our teeth into in-between the movies. There are millions of us out here awaiting something.. anything. You must see the potential? Trek is a massive asset you have, start milking it! It is ready to go again.

471. alexander - April 26, 2014

Hey Bob

I heard you are a big fan of TNG ?

maybe you could add little bits of reference to the show? although could be a little tough since the new timeline is one century before tng :)

472. Oscar - April 26, 2014

«Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman ,transatlantic hacks, who belong back in B tv like alias o Xena» Kyle Smith, NY Post top critic.
Orci to direct ST?
A vast majority of critics think Orci is a bad writer, a «hack», and a vast majority of fans dislike him, the man who insulted them
IF Orci is the absolute capo of the next star trek film, the film will be a major disaster…star trek deserves a lot more.
STAR TREK is more important than Orci’s ego…ST is NOT a toy. Paramount can not permit this. But the problem is Paramount does NOT love star trek.
Orci fans are Very vocals but only a bunch. The vast majority of fans do NOT like Orci.

473. Disinvited - April 26, 2014

#467. Picard, Jean-Luc – April 26, 2014

I think the problems run deeper than just bickering over Trek. nuParamount just doesn’t have the same clout and finesse that old Paramount had. This is why they lost not only Marvel but Indiana Jones to Disney as well. They simply can’t match Disney dollar for dollar. They have ambition but they simply can’t measure up to big league players like that.

474. Trekbilly - April 26, 2014

Some of you people are blaming Kurtzman and Orci for LINDELOFFS bad writing!!! It’s Lindeloff that’s the problem!! He screwed up Prometheus too!!

Place the blame where it belongs, guys!!

Bob is a fan and knows his stuff! Personally, I hope he stays onboard for the films.

Again — no matter what some of you think of NuTrek, the fact is it will never be as awful as Insurrection, Nemesis, Star Trek V, and Generations! I’d rather have lobotomy than watch those wretched excuses for Trek again!!

Bob, if you’re reading this — Godspeed to you, buddy!! :-)

475. Trekbilly - April 26, 2014

#467 — I like your idea of a “Star Trek studio”.

476. Khan 2.0 - April 26, 2014

I don’t think that’s boborci people :)

477. Jonboc - April 26, 2014

The naysayers on this site are like children being told to eat vegetables. Everyone knows vegetables are good for you, it’s common knowledge. But…. because the child wanted cake, but isn’t getting to eat cake, he throws a fit. Orci is your broccoli, kids…you may not like it…but whether or not you realize it, he is a good choice.

478. PIcard, Jean-Luc - April 26, 2014

@470

Completely agree with this.

Personally I think Star Trek needs a new home, I don’t think Paramount or CBS are the right homes for Star Trek which is part of the reason why I came up with the Star Trek Studio idea due mainly to the fact that whilst CBS and Paramount are making money off of Star Trek, they probably wouldn’t sell it for anything under $3 billion (although Disney buying Lucasfilm for $4billion might suggest Trek’s price tag be around the $1.5 billion to $2 billion range).

If money wasn’t an issue here (maybe it isn’t, does Abrams have $2 billion to buy Trek?) I’d love to see Bad Robot buy it off of CBS (Owners of the intellectual property rights). Not everyone will love that idea but at least with Bad Robot it would be in the hands of creative people rather than suits who aren’t invested creatively.

The Star Trek Studio would have to be run by someone who understood the business of making entertainment, a force to be reckoned with but another idea for this Star Trek Studio would be to involve the fans through the script submission idea Pillar had during TNG as well as involving current Science Fiction and Star Trek Novelists to write ideas or scripts for TV episodes as well as involving the fan-produced series in some way so that what you’ve got is an enormous, creatively stimulating studio that benefits from not just the professional hollywood writers and producers/directors but also the wider fan base and science community who know and understand Star Trek.

479. PIcard, Jean-Luc - April 26, 2014

Oh and… Star Trek needs to return to the TV, as if we didn’t already know that. Another reason why CBS/Paramount aren’t right for Trek

480. Ann - April 26, 2014

Ann- Gene Roddenberry the creator of Star Trek was a writer and a producer …but never did any directing .
Just because you can create a TV show or movie and also write and produce, does not necessarily mean you can or should direct.

481. Aurore - April 26, 2014

“….The vast majority of fans do NOT like Orci.”
__________

You forgot the ( direct ) link to the… research… that indicates such a… ” fact “.

:)

Speaking for myself, what I do NOT like is what was done casting-wise with the Khan character. Besides, from what I heard, the story was not really original. ( Of course, I’ll see about that last point when I watch Star Trek Into Darkness for myself… ).

As to who will direct the next Star Trek, I presume Paramount will decide.
No matter their choice, it’s Paramount we are talking about, not a Star Trek fan (me) on a site.

As I love to say, there is a reason why they get to make such decisions, and I don’t.

:)

…So, qui vivra verra…

482. Stephan - April 26, 2014

I like Boborci’s writing. I would say, give him a chance, when Abrams and co think he can do it.

483. Phil - April 26, 2014

Unless your name is PEW, it’s a bit presumptions to be speaking for the ‘vast majority’ of fans.

484. Elias Javalis - April 26, 2014

One thing i suspect,

McKay and Payne must have a hell of a script on their hands! Give Bob the option to detach and Direct!

485. Oscar - April 26, 2014

480
Some bitter realities Orci fans can not accept and do NOT want to see
1. A vast majority of critics think Orci is a very mediocre writer. They dislike him. You can consult rottentomatoes, if you want. If he write and direct the next ST film, they will crash it.
2. A vast majority of trekers (you should consult other trek webs) dislike Orci. Because of STID, worst trek film ever, because he insulted them and because Orci think ST is his toy and because of his arrogance. I insist , there are a few Very vocal Orci fans, but this is only a mirage.
If you insult fans you can not direct star trek. It is a Very bad marketing choice. Trek fans deserve a director who respect them, a tolerant guy.
3. For general moviegoers Orci is nothing.
If Orci direct this film, it will be a major disaster.
Wait and see.

486. Ahmed - April 26, 2014

@ 468. Disinvited – April 26, 2014

“I believe I have an answer to the question: “Will a studio turn a blockbuster sized production budget over to a first time director?
…….. Simon West first time directed CON AIR. Estimated budget $75 million (adjusted for inflation $110 million).

The answer appears to be: yes.”

I’m afraid that you are mistaken my friend. Here is more info from Wikipedia about Simon West career

===================

West began his career in 1981 when he became a film editor with the BBC in London. During a four-year tenure at the BBC, West was involved with a number of award-winning productions including the documentary series Strangeways Prison and the drama series Bleak House both of which won awards from the prestigious British Academy of Film and Television Arts.

West’s career took off in 1985 when he began freelancing as a director and he was awarded a grant from the Arts Council of Great Britain to write and direct the film entitled Dolly Mixtures. He was subsequently signed to Limelight London to direct music videos and commercials. In 1987 he won Best Video at the Montreux Music Festival for Mel and Kim’s Respectable. He also directed the video for Rick Astley’s “Never Gonna Give You Up” in the same year.

With a flourishing commercial career, West relocated to Los Angeles offices of Limelight in 1991. Moving to Pilot pictures in 1992, he received a Clio Award for Little Caesar’s Airplane and a Golden Lion Award for Little Caesar’s “Italian Feast.”

West joined Propaganda Films in 1993 with a roster of credits including McDonalds, Sprite, AT&T, Ford, Miller Beer and Budweiser. His most famous commercial was a spot for Pepsi where a little boy sucks himself into a Pepsi bottle. The ad ran during the Super Bowl and was USA Today’s highest rated commercial for that year.

In 1997, he directed the international blockbuster Con Air for Jerry Bruckheimer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_West

======================
He wasn’t a first time director when he was given the helm of Con Air.

So the answer is still: No.

487. Ahmed - April 26, 2014

@478. Aurore

“As I love to say, there is a reason why they get to make such decisions, and I don’t. :)”

LOL, I see that you are channeling the spirit of Bob :)

488. Ahmed - April 26, 2014

@ 474. Jonboc – April 26, 2014

“The naysayers on this site are like children being told to eat vegetables.”

Nope, you got that wrong my friend.

We are “akin to a child acting out against his parents. Makes it tough for some to listen” :-)

489. Oscar - April 26, 2014

Addenda: Orci in numbers Abrams movies NOT included.
As producer eagle eye 26% in rottentomatoes
Now you see me, 50%
As screenwriter, The legend of the Zorro, 26%, The Island, 40%, Transformer I, 57% Transformers II, 20 %, Cowboy and aliens 40%, MI III, 70% Ender, 60%

490. Bill Peters - April 26, 2014

Both Paramount/CBS has had Problems with Trek that they call Trek Fatigue and leads them to both wait to make new Trek by waiting a few years in-between Films, one for CBS call Enterprise, and for Paramount it was Nemesis, now thought I like the Idea of a Star Trek Studio I doubt Paramount or CBS will give up the Rights to the Star Trek Property.

JJ walked away from Directing Trek cause CBS wasn’t willing to play ball and have a TV show and Merchandising , I think that Paramount is doing great with the New Films do I wish it hadn’t been so long inbetween 09-STID Yes but it is what it is.

I think Orci can give us a great 50th for Trek and maybe talk to CBS seance he is working for them with other shows on getting Trek back on TV.

491. John Whorfin - April 26, 2014

boborci: Two serious questions here…

If you’re interested in directing, why have you never taken the opportunity to direct even a single episode of your many TV series and/or at least directed a short to get some directing experience under your belt?

Also, in your opinion and experience as a producer, would you consider it a responsible, rational choice to hire someone with absolutely no directing experience to direct a $175M studio tentpole as their first film?

492. Ahmed - April 26, 2014

@488. John Whorfin

Good questions

493. Phil - April 26, 2014

@482. Lets see…
1. Again, what’s with the ‘vast majority’ you keep throwing around? Using your own RT reference, it looks like he’s had plenty of critical success as well.
2. I’ve been a fan of the show since the last seventies, and I find the man no more insulting the Rick Berman or Gene Roddenberry. Everyone has their flaws, but they’ve all also promoted the cause of Trek.
3. Well over three billion in revenue from Orci projects would suggest otherwise.

There’s nothing wrong with you, as an individual, holding the opinion that Bad Robot’s brand of Trek isn’t to your liking, you are entitled to that. What you aren’t entitled to is to assume that because you held that opinion, that you now have the right to speak for everyone else. I don’t share your opinion, and the fact that of the overall revenue generated by the Trek movie franchise, that Bad Robot has been responsible for about 40% of that, invalidates pretty much your entire argument.

494. I am not Herbert - April 26, 2014

boborci HAS TO direct… ‘cuz nobody decent would take the bait… =P

all that “lobbying heavily to direct” is PR bullsh*t (eat it up, chumps)

boborci is not broccoli… he is cotton candy… (barf) =P

boborci in NOT a surgeon… he is a well-connected, pandering quack…

495. Phil - April 26, 2014

@483. Hang on now, you’ve been pretty consistent that there is absolutely noting in Bobs rather extensive career. So now, if someone made TV commercials, YouTube videos, or pretty much directed traffic they are qualified. The reality is, none of us know how hands on Bob is with this TV productions, if we can assume he’s never directed because he’s not credited, it’s just as easy to assume he has directed in an unaccredited capacity.

We are not determining the criteria for consideration here, Bad Robot and Paramount are. Obviously, BR has endorsed him, and Paramount hasn’t seen this as an obstacle, but are wisely giving the request due diligence.

The argument that the lack of a credited direction is grounds for a rejection of the request still hasn’t been made. Sorry.

496. I am not Herbert - April 26, 2014

An incredible discovery that was recently made in Russia threatens to shatter conventional theories about the history of the planet.

http://www.thesleuthjournal.com/newly-found-megalithic-ruins-russia-contain-largest-blocks-stone-ever-discovered/#

497. Ahmed - April 26, 2014

@ 492. Phil – April 26, 2014

“@483. Hang on now, you’ve been pretty consistent that there is absolutely noting in Bobs rather extensive career. So now, if someone made TV commercials, YouTube videos, or pretty much directed traffic they are qualified. ”

Try to read information more closely. Simon West worked as film editor with the BBC for years, then he directed documentaries & from there TV commercials.

Bob on the other hand, DID NOT direct anything at all.

“We are not determining the criteria for consideration here, Bad Robot and Paramount are.”

Then don’t post or comment about it since it is not in our hands. Relax & watch TV & enjoy your weekend.

498. Ahmed - April 26, 2014

@490. Phil

“and the fact that of the overall revenue generated by the Trek movie franchise, that Bad Robot has been responsible for about 40% of that, invalidates pretty much your entire argument.”

If we are going to judge movies by the revenue, then The Transformers movies are far superior than BR Trek because they brought in more than $2.6B

499. Ahmed - April 26, 2014

@ 492. Phil – April 26, 2014

“if we can assume he’s never directed because he’s not credited, it’s just as easy to assume he has directed in an unaccredited capacity”

Sure why not, we can also assume that because he is traveling a lot, that maybe he was piloting airplanes secretly!!

If someone directed anything & was not credited, it will still shows up on IMDB & other trade magazines

Check Joss Whedon page & see this little item:

Thor (director: post-credits scene – uncredited)

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0923736/#director

But who know, maybe he directed a secret film hidden somewhere in a secret vault deep underground.

500. Phil - April 26, 2014

A bad day on the Big E….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6Lb3kFwJRQ

501. I am not Herbert - April 26, 2014

Ahmed = right on

Phil = boborci’s turd-polisher

502. Oscar - April 26, 2014

No matter, boys, girls and turtles, ST does NOT deserves a Bob Orci, this pseudo ST aka mindless Video game, beh, I think so. If Orci is the suprem boss in the next trek film, the film will be a disaster, because he has not neither talent nor experience, pasion and super ego is not enough….
Star Trek into darkness, not a title but an omen.
If Paramount wants to burn star trek making 3mediocre and ludicrous blockbusters is its problem…
CBS is the Guardian of the true trek. They knows better.

503. Ahmed - April 26, 2014

@ 502. Oscar – April 26, 2014

“No matter, boys, girls and turtles, ST does NOT deserves a Bob Orci, this pseudo ST aka mindless Video game, beh, I think so. If Orci is the suprem boss in the next trek film, the film will be a disaster, because he has not neither talent nor experience”

I have to disagree with you there. I may not see him as a good choice to direct a major movie like ST 3 but there is no denying that Bob has an extensive experience as a writer & producer.

And I enjoyed some of his works like Star Trek 09, Ender’s Game, Mission: Impossible III, Sleepy Hollow, Alias & Fringe.

STID & Transformers movies on the other hand, are a very different story.

504. Trekbilly - April 26, 2014

Am I on “ignore”?

505. Phil - April 26, 2014

@504. Nah, I like your list of awful Trek, though, like a bad car wreck, I can’t help but watch them, too….

A Trek studio addresses a different problem, management of the franchise. That monkey sits squarely on the shoulders of CBS and Paramount. These guys covet the numbers Marvel is putting up, but won’t make the commitment to generate the content to achieve it. Bob is free to pursue a directors gig, but given his affinity for the franchise, a better position for him might be as an overseer (not sure about a title here) of all things Trek. The guy has the chops to produce a show. The only problem I see is Trek is tied in hard to the ‘captain and crew’ format. To increase content, they are going to have to create stories and character in different formats. I’m not to sure how that would go over with the old timer fans….

506. Disinvited - April 26, 2014

#497. Ahmed – April 26, 2014, 492. Phil – April 26, 2014

And I duly noted that I can’t account for government subsidized (How do you determine profit making ability from something like that?) endeavors afforded him from the BBC and grant programs but you went right on ahead and listed them.

If you are going to go that easy on the requirements for managing blockbuster sums then all snickering about fan directors being considered as well should come to a halt.

And Phil is right, commercials and music videos have production budgets so miniscule compared to a blockbuster movie that it is difficult to see how that scales up to being a significant factor?

And if you are are going to introduce wikipedia to complicate the search process well that source says Orci spent time in Canada so I can’t account for any advanced art opportunities that nation’s arts education may have afforded him along with its grants and its similar CBC opportunities as well as his time in Mexico and any programs there. And I assume he maintains triple citizenship that would have afforded him access to those opportunities throughout his life? In the U.S. it says he attended private school and that means he likely received an arts education superior to most of its citizens on that alone.

Well, even if you won’t budge on any of this, your position is a significant change as now all Bob has to do is shove a few BigMacs in celebrities faces and direct a Taylor Swift video and he’s good to go.

507. Trekbilly - April 26, 2014

Can’t argue with that, Phil. We’ll see how it goes down…

508. Mike Barnett - April 26, 2014

501. I am not Herbert

“Phil = boborci’s turd-polisher”

What are you, like 10 years old?

509. Ahmed - April 26, 2014

@506. Disinvited

“And if you are are going to introduce wikipedia to complicate the search process well that source says Orci spent time in Canada so I can’t account for any advanced art opportunities that nation’s arts education may have afforded him along with its grants and its similar CBC opportunities as well as his time in Mexico and any programs there.”

At high school, Bob was on the debate team & he started writing during that time with his friend Alex. He wasn’t in a drama club or directed anything.

http://www.examiner.com/article/roberto-orci-the-man-with-the-golden-pen

“And Phil is right, commercials and music videos have production budgets so miniscule compared to a blockbuster movie that it is difficult to see how that scales up to being a significant factor?”

Actually you both are wrong. Directing music videos is like shooting short films. A music video director will have to understand cinematography, lighting and editing among other things.

Check out some of the Hollywood directors who started as commercials and music videos directors:

Ridley Scott
Tony Scott
David Fincher
Alex Proyas
Antoine Fuqua
Simon West
Michel Gondry
McG
Michael Bay
Spike Jonze
Marc Webb

510. Ahmed - April 26, 2014

@@506. Disinvited

” as now all Bob has to do is shove a few BigMacs in celebrities faces and direct a Taylor Swift video and he’s good to go.”

No, he doesn’t needs to bother himself with that at all. It is more than enough that he has the passion for it & that he is a big fan of the movie, that should impress the suits more than anything else!!!

511. I am not Herbert - April 26, 2014

Mike Barnett: re: “10yrs old?”: …sometimes ;-)

…i’m probably showing my emotions, more than my intellectual “age” ;-)

…luckily, some of my more choice comments get censored ;-)

LL&P

512. I am not Herbert - April 26, 2014

…he’s a loyal cog in the “machine”… it’s a done deal… (eyesroll)

513. Phil - April 26, 2014

@509. Heading down another rabbit trail, I see. You seem to be open to the idea that anyone, anywhere who has picked up a camera could be considered a director, so that probably also throws open a whole new pool of candidates. Emergency dispatchers, the Caltrans guy who shoots the freeway cams, security guards, any parent who has video taped their kid, the sales guy at Best Buy…..just not the industry guy with the 20 plus year long resume.

Gotcha….

514. Captain Jean-Luc Obama - April 26, 2014

Why am I not surprised at all the comments on here LOL… I don’t believe Paramount will allow Orci to direct the next film. I think he needs to stick to writing the script. No disrespect, despite the whiny nitpicks of Trek boys I loved Into Darkness. It was a dope film however I think we need someone else in the chair. They need to call Nicholas Meyer. That would be very cool.

I think that Paramount needs to find a way to create a television series a la Agents of Shield to keep the franchise fresh in the mind of the public that embraced the last two films without having to have a Nerd PhD in Trek.

I like @boborci but they need to call Nicholas Meyer and I think this film should celebrate all of Trek New and Old. I want to see a Space Epic the next time around. I want to see alien battles and I want to see exploration. I think that the last film was cool and relevant and it did in a way answer the critics of New Trek.

Nicholas Meyer is the answer to the film. He delivered on two twice albeit in different eras but those films still hold up. Or would you prefer Stuart Baird or Bret Ratner? JJ chose the sexier younger sister. I also think it is all the BS that comes along with Trek Fans who can’t wrap their heads around the new universe. You whined and moaned when there was no Trek. Now you have Trek and you still whine and moan.

515. Phil - April 26, 2014

The Eyewitness News reporter, photojournalists, community college students, Justin Beiber, astronauts, drone pilots…..

516. Phil - April 26, 2014

Les Stroud, voyeurs, just about anyone in adult entertainment…

517. boborci - April 26, 2014

what fun!

518. Ahmed - April 26, 2014

@ 513. Phil – April 26, 2014

“@509. Heading down another rabbit trail, I see. You seem to be open to the idea that anyone, anywhere who has picked up a camera could be considered a director.. (sic) ..just not the industry guy with the 20 plus year long resume.”

Anyone who studied & then worked in the industry as film editor, director assistant, second unit director .. etc can of course be a director. A TV actor/producer/writer can be a director. Bob can of course be a director.

The main point here that you don’t go directing a tentpole movie without doing the little stuff before, a small movie, a short film ..etc

For you & everyone else, it is no problem at all. Someone who was around studios for 20 years & never picked up a camera, could easily direct a big movie right out of the gate.

519. Ahmed - April 26, 2014

@ 514. Phil – April 26, 2014

“The Eyewitness News reporter, photojournalists, ”

According to your own logic, why not ? They have been around cameras & watched others directing!

Isn’t that your argument, that Bob hung around studios for 20 years & therefore he is qualified to take on a big movie !!

520. Ahmed - April 26, 2014

@ 516. boborci – April 26, 2014

“what fun!”

Indeed :-)

521. Phil - April 26, 2014

@518. No, ‘hung around studios’ describes the security guard, or groupies. Hanging around the studio, as opposed to the welfare office or the adult entertainment bar, is your logic, not mine.

Maybe in your mind being a producer is nothing more the a frat boys dream job come true, where you get paid to sign papers, smoke dope and play grab-ass with your secretary all day. Whereas, my understanding of what an executive producer does is manage most, if not all of the aspects of the production he’s responsible for, including oversight of the directors he’s probably hired. Very much a business venture, and he’d better be able to communicate what he wants to his directors. It doesn’t seem that much of a stretch to make the adjustment.

522. Ahmed - April 26, 2014

@520. Phil

“Maybe in your mind being a producer is nothing more the a frat boys dream job come true, where you get paid to sign papers, smoke dope and play grab-ass with your secretary all day. ”

lol, nope. I’m a big fan of Babylon 5 & I happen to follow J. Michael Straczynski posts on Usenet back then. In his posts, JMS was telling us about all the little & big stuff that come with producing a TV show, you may wants to check his posts one day.

“Very much a business venture, and he’d better be able to communicate what he wants to his directors. It doesn’t seem that much of a stretch to make the adjustment.”

It is not a stretch if he started directing a TV episode or a small movie, just like Alex did, but it is a different thing to direct a major movie without having any real hand-on experience in directing.

523. Disinvited - April 26, 2014

#509. Ahmed – April 26, 2014

Your response only exposes the problems of introducing wikipedia and having to resort to other extraneous sources to fill in its deficiencies into this search.

The Examiner article is in no way Bob’s high school transcripts or university for that matter. You have no basis for making your claim that he wasn’t in drama club any more than I have to claim that because he wrote screenplays in high school he therefore must have directed them. And for the record, I wasn’t in Drama Club and such a conclusion as you drew with regards to Bob applied to me would be %100 wrong.

To further indicate the problems of determining the opportunities afforded Bob in this matter:

http://acento.com/who-we-are/leadership/roberto-orci/

That’s Bob’s father. How do I know that?:

https://es-es.facebook.com/AcentoAd/posts/258368597554657

“Check out some of the Hollywood directors who started as commercials and music videos directors” – Ahmed

Let’s stay on topic here. Would you kindly eliminate from that list the directors whose first motion pictures did not have blockbuster budgets?

So Ahmed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwX68l0a0Ww

Does he get the gig? ;-)

524. TUP - April 26, 2014

I totally understand that the thoughtful Trek we all know wont really exist until its back on TV (and even then its crap shoot given how bad some TV Trek was) but Trek movies should be better

The first movie was a good start and its problems were able to be over-looked under the guise of “setting the stage”. But STID was a convoluted mess in many ways. It actually made me go back and watch Star Trek with a more critical eye and now I enjoy that film less.

Dont get me wrong. I like both films. Im glad they drew in a wide audience and its wonderful to see a big budget Trek. But thats no excuse for shoddy writing.

525. Ahmed - April 26, 2014

@522. Disinvited

“The Examiner article is in no way Bob’s high school transcripts or university for that matter. You have no basis for making your claim that he wasn’t in drama club any more than I have to claim that because he wrote screenplays in high school he therefore must have directed them.”

In all the various interviews that I came across, never saw Bob mentioning that he directed or was in drama club at school or college. If you can find one such interview where he states something else, show me.

“Let’s stay on topic here.”

Well, I’m on topic & was responding to your statement that:

“commercials and music videos have production budgets so miniscule compared to a blockbuster movie that it is difficult to see how that scales up to being a significant factor?””

Sr. Ridley Scott started as a music video director & then went on to make movies, starting with a small movie “The Duellists”.

“Would you kindly eliminate from that list the directors whose first motion pictures did not have blockbuster budgets?”

David Fincher is the only one who went from directing music video to making a blockbuster movie, Alien 3, and we all know how that worked out, right ?

“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwX68l0a0Ww

Does he get the gig? ;-)”

LOL

526. Captain Slow - April 26, 2014

Boborci, if I may humbly make a suggestion, shoot the movie in digital 3-D rather than on film and converting it. I’m a big fan of film and anamorphic lenses but for a big spectacle movie like this, I think real 3-D would be better.

527. Disinvited - April 26, 2014

#516. boborci – April 26, 2014

Not half as much fun as mulling over using the code name “Love Affair” for the new script.

528. Trekbilly - April 26, 2014

Why does Lindeloff get off the hook with you guys? Just curious…

529. Keachick (Rose) - April 26, 2014

#443 boborci –
Just celebrated on Saturday, 26 April, my younger son’s 19th birthday. So you know now what I was doing 19 years ago…:) Younger son brings home a dozen beers (18 is the legal age here). We took cooked food to his “Koro’s Remuera Homestead”…:) and took homemade banana cake (the ‘boy’s’ favourite cake) to the hospital so that my mother could share a little in the birthday fun. Then back to the *homestead, where we ate, drank and watched the Hobbit – Desolation of Smaug which son said was “boring”. I, better half and 11 year old daughter liked it though!

Now, Sunday morning, it is writing here while trying to stem cold/flu like symptoms from taking complete hold and looking at a very untidy house that requires the services of a cleaner, dish washer, bed maker etc – guess who that is? I will get on with it…eventually…sigh

*I guess my father’s (in law) house could be called a “homestead” given that it is now 94 years old.

April/May are big months for me! Almost 21 years ago, I was delivering son no 1 in May and 12 years ago, daughter in May. Masterful planning there…:)

@Bob Orci – well, you did ask!

530. Keachick (Rose) - April 26, 2014

So the latest ST script has the code name “Love Affair”? Liking it already.

531. Keachick (Rose) - April 26, 2014

Why would/should Bob Orci need to mention if he participated in a drama club or other?

Without actually knowing for certain, it is reasonable to assume, however, that Bob would have undertaken some kind of training relating to film writing, production, directing…

An example, some time back, is that Chris Pine was seen going into a place by a papz journalist which taught actors the art of (pretend) fighting, working with stunt doubles etc. I do not know how intensive the course was or how long a duration but there has been no mention of this in his public resume and he has not himself mentioned it (AFAIK). It is just something the people working in the film making industry undertake in order to better equip themselves for what might be asked of them whether they are employed as actors/directors/camera operators – you name it.

532. Keachick (Rose) - April 26, 2014

#501 – Stop it – I am not Herbert. You are not funny. You are just being rude. What’s more, I have an 11 year old who is better mannered.

533. Marja - April 26, 2014

524 Ahmed, OT, but “The Duellists” is frikkin’ awesome. A “small” movie about questions of character, with Harvey Keitel and Keith Carradine. I highly recommend it.

527 Trekbilly, I for one have not let Lindelof off the hook. In fact I think significant problems with both movies could have been avoided had he not been allowed “off the chain”

529 Rose, haha. Though I might not object for a couple of scenes in the actual movie … a little Kirk and Carol, a little Spock and Uhura … ;-)

Oh, Bob, since you’re in and out here, can you please have a moment with Chapel in the next movie in which it’s revealed that she went to the other end of the galaxy on some humanitarian mission and it had nothing whatsoever to do with Kirk: Carol was tweaking him.

534. Damian - April 26, 2014

Not sure what to think about Bob Orci directing. Since he’s never directed anything before, no one can really say if he’d be good or bad. Even the greats like Hitchcock and Kubrick had a “first” film.

You also have new faces on the writing team. That will really leave things wide open for the next film.

I have a feeling they are gearing up for a war with the Klingons. Frankly, I hope that’s not the case because that will make it the 4th battle/vengeance style Star Trek film in a row and I’d like to see a little “Strange New Worlds.”

One other thing I’d like to see is a stronger, better developed McCoy character. I thought they did an excellent job with Scotty. Now let’s give McCoy the same treatment. Urban does a great job as McCoy. Let’s see him battle some plague on some unknown planet somewhere.

535. Keachick (Rose) - April 26, 2014

Yes, Marja, I did think that two love affairs could be part of the next movie’s story line. God knows – Kirk needs some good loving from a good woman and be able to give back. He also needs to learn about accepting help from his friend, who is also professionally qualified, ie Bones/McCoy.

536. Ahmed - April 26, 2014

Alex Kurtzman directed his first movie “People Like Us” with a budget of $16 million. It didn’t take long for the studio to approve the project:

“I gave it to our partners at DreamWorks, and I said, “Guys, you don’t have to like this, and you most certainly don’t have to make it, I just want to know what you think of it.” I gave it to them on a Thursday and I got a call on a Saturday and they said, “We’re going.” I don’t think any other studio would have done that at all. They were very smart about the budget.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/29/people-like-us-alex-kurtzman_n_1637560.html

==============================

Craveonline: You’ve worked with Roberto Orci for twenty years now, you co-wrote People Like Us, but when it came time to direct it, it was just you. Did you talk about that?

Kurtzman: That was always the intention. I always got into this to be a director. I feel like I’m… It’s hard to say what I am first. I guess technically I’m a writer first, but you know, I always wanted to direct. And the idea was always that we’d write something and then I’d go off and direct it. We just kind of got there in a roundabout way.

Craveonline: Not to put words in his mouth, but has he expressed any interest in directing?

Kurtzman : Yeah! I think so. I think we’re both of the opinion that the first time you direct a movie, it had better be something that’s a really singular expression of yourself. I think that’s the right standard to hold your first movie to, in a lot of ways. So I think that if he finds that, he’ll do it.

http://www.craveonline.com/film/interviews/191111-a-roundabout-way-alex-kurtzman-on-people-like-us

==============================

Bob is a lot more ambitious than Alex for sure :-)

537. Curious Cadet - April 26, 2014

@415. Ahmed,
“First time director + first time writers = potential problems”

First time director, yes. You’ve got a 50/50 chance he’ll do a good job.

First time writers? Not necessarily. It seems to me likely that Orci took meetings with young writers who had probably written some Star Trek fan fiction, looking for the next story. In come these two with an amazing story. Doesn’t matter if they’ve never written a film before, all it takes is one good script. Shane Black comes to mind. Orci will guide them for any changes he may need. That’s what he does best as a successful Exec Producer of many TV shows. Heck he may even have Kurtzman take a pass at it, if he’s too busy. If the script is ready to go well before pre-production (and no reason it shouldn’t be if these kids have been working on it for years), the one thing I trust Orci to do right is revise the script on set while he directs. Whether that kind of extra pressure affects his first time directorial efforts, remains to be seen.

538. Disinvited - April 26, 2014

#524. Ahmed – April 26, 2014

“David Fincher is the only one who went from directing music video to making a blockbuster movie, Alien 3, and we all know how that worked out, right ?”

Now play fair, for some reason you included Simon West on your list and we all know how much better CON AIR worked out, right?

#536. Ahmed – April 26, 2014

Would you at least agree that that is evidence that he’s more than just randomly deciding to jump in? It sure sounds at least, the pair of them have worked towards this for some time. Forget the budget for a moment. Kurtzman was able to do a credible job directing on his initial try and he’s been working with OrcI since they first started writing screenplays in high school. Do you really think that somehow they both haven’t been treading the same fertile grounds and drinking in the same environment that lead to Kurtzman doing well as a director?

#537. Curious Cadet – April 26, 2014

I’ll tell you what encourages me. David Poland never thought much of K&O’s writing but look at his review of ASM2:

http://moviecitynews.com/2014/04/review-the-amazing-spider-man-2-spoiler-free/

“Neither my expectations nor my standards were lowered.

The Amazing Spider-Man 2 is a piece of quality filmmaking with actual attention to consistent coherent (and emotionally coherent) storytelling.” – David Poland

539. dmduncan - April 26, 2014

519. Ahmed – April 26, 2014

Isn’t that your argument, that Bob hung around studios for 20 years & therefore he is qualified to take on a big movie !!

***

Pfft.

“Hung around.” You make him sound like a kid being baby sat by a big brother in the business.

The ability to competently direct is a collection of skills, most of which, for someone with Bob’s long work history in the industry as a writer and producer, are already present in what he has been doing. Writing is the most primary and important act of direction.

What makes him able to direct at his current stage — aside from an official hiring — is the desire to do it. It’s a position with increased responsibility, which a person has to want to take on to do well.

You seem to have this crazy idea that in directing Bob will be drawing on no experience because he has never “directed.” You are wrong. Bob will be drawing on all the managerial skills he has acquired in other aspects of production which transfer over and ALSO make him able to direct.

540. Ahmed - April 26, 2014

@ 538. Disinvited – April 26, 2014

“Now play fair, for some reason you included Simon West on your list and we all know how much better CON AIR worked out, right?”

True, no denying that.

“Would you at least agree that that is evidence that he’s more than just randomly deciding to jump in?”

After reading the interview with Alex, inclined to agree with you. My problem isn’t that he can’t direct at all, it is the size of the project that I’m worried about. And let not forget that Alex directed some TV episodes before doing his first movie.

“Do you really think that somehow they both haven’t been treading the same fertile grounds and drinking in the same environment that lead to Kurtzman doing well as a director?”

As usual, not everyone agree when it come to that. It rated just %55 on rottentomatoes & it received mixed reviews.

541. Cygnus-X1 - April 26, 2014

537. Curious Cadet – April 26, 2014

First time director, yes. You’ve got a 50/50 chance he’ll do a good job…

…though, there’s only a 10% chance of that.

542. Ahmed - April 26, 2014

@539. dmduncan

I’m not saying that Bob can’t direct at all, he sure as hell can direct just like the other writers/producers who done that before. My issue is the scale of his first movie. Regardless of his managerial skills, this is going to be on-the-job training for him.

He should do like what Alex did, do couple TV episodes, a small movie & then go for the big one. But he is taking a shortcut & I’m not sure if that is a good idea for the movie & for him as well.

543. Jonboc - April 26, 2014

James Cameron was primarily a writer…he made the transition to producer and director rather well. I have no reason, and have been shown no reason, to believe Bob Orci can’t effectively and successfully make that very same transition.

544. Ahmed - April 26, 2014

@ 543. Jonboc – April 26, 2014

“James Cameron was primarily a writer…he made the transition to producer and director rather well.”

Except that his very first movie “Piranha Part Two: The Spawning” was awful.

545. Phil - April 26, 2014

@541. Well, most folks are assuming a succeed/fail scenario, which is 50/50.

So, if we expand our thinking a bit

Oscar winner
Oscar nominated
Excellent foreign box office
Solid WW box office
GOOD JOB
Exceeds expectations
Meets expectations
break even
Money loser
Disaster

Now, there’s a 10% chance he’ll do a good job.

546. Keachick - April 26, 2014

Further to my comments and in reference to Marja #533 – it could also be that they are code naming this film “Love Affair” because it may feel like writing and making this film is akin to having a love affair. Just musing here…

What say you, Bob Orci?

547. Keachick - April 26, 2014

#545 – Oh Phil…:(

548. Ahmed - April 26, 2014

@546. Keachick

“it could also be that they are code naming this film “Love Affair””

Where did you hear that they code named ST 3 “Love Affair” ?

549. Phil - April 26, 2014

@542. Scale is irrelevant, multiple millions is multiple millions, and the man has been involved with several projects with nine figure budgets already. That’s probably a better indicator that he’ll know what’s going on then suggesting that some indie director, who’s used to making cheap movies on a 50K budget, should be hired solely because he’s said ‘action’ a few times, just to watch him struggle to acclimate himself to resources he’s never had before.

550. Cygnus-X1 - April 26, 2014

But, seriously….

371. Bill Peters – April 25, 2014

I also don’t get why with JJ Trek fans can’t live IDIC.

Because Star Trek used to have certain values and sensibilities that attracted me to the show. Granted, Nemesis was awful and the other TNG movies all had serious problems, so I’ll go back to the TOS movies and the TV series. Even when they varied in style and quality they still aspired to certain artistic and philosophical values and sensibilities that made them definitively Trek. VOY was definitely the worst of the TV series, and even it at least tried to aspire to the original values and sensibilities of Trek; it just didn’t succeed very well at it often enough and often had a half-baked feel to it. But, those original Trek values and sensibilities have been largely dispensed with in the BR movies such that ST09 and STID don’t even feel like Star Trek. They feel a lot more like comic book movies than like Trek.

If you’re a fan of the BR Trek movies, then you’re naturally more optimistic about the prospect of Orci directing the next one. But, if you’re not a fan of the BR movies, then what you see is one of the main writers of two movies who biggest weaknesses were in their writing now lobbying to have an even larger influence over the next movie.

Infinite diversity in infinite combinations would be fine if I had an infinite amount of time to wait for a decent movie! But there hasn’t really been one since 1991! That’s a long time to wait and A LOT of patience on my part, I’d venture to say! I just want a Trek product that’s enjoyable when I watch it at home and that I can be proud to associate with as a Trekkie. ST09 and STID have their moments, but overall they leave much to be desired, especially upon repeat viewings. And, most importantly, they don’t feel like Trek, but rather like some Trek changeling with the names and likenesses of Trek but missing the mind, soul and spirit of Trek.

551. Phil - April 26, 2014

@547. I like 50/50 better…..

@548. They are having a little fun with it. It was Love Affair, or Sleepless in Starbase 69…

552. Ahmed - April 26, 2014

@ 551. Phil – April 26, 2014

“It was Love Affair, or Sleepless in Starbase 69…”

LOL

553. Disinvited - April 26, 2014

#548. Ahmed – April 26, 2014

Keachick got the idea from me.

554. Ahmed - April 26, 2014

@ 553. Disinvited – April 26, 2014

“Keachick got the idea from me.”

oh, so it was a joke then, unless you have an inside man at BR :-)

555. DonDonP1 - April 26, 2014

With respect to naysayers, Robert Orci would make an excellent director of “Star Trek XIII.”

556. Bill Peters - April 26, 2014

550. Cygnus-X1

I disagree, IDIC applies to Star Trek Under JJ Abrams, you seem to want Star Trek to be a Nich Market that never breaks out, never goes beyond that Nich Market and that is what JJ movies have done, Funny you say Trek has a Feel and Values to it, STID had those Feels and Values to it, or was the Prime Directive left out? Was it not Mentioned that Starfleet isn’t Just a Military Organization?

Star Trek Movies have to make money and they have to at some point be for more then just fans, Please understand I respect that you have a Diffrent POV but you seem to want Trek to be one way only and if it isn’t It isn’t Trek to You and the name must be removed and that to me is so wrong.

557. Curious Cadet - April 26, 2014

@539. dmduncan,
“Writing is the most primary and important act of direction.”

I disagree with this. You can have the most brilliantly written script in the world, but if your director lacks a keen eye and dramatic vision, most people won’t be able to get past that.

I totally agree Orci has all the tools he needs to be a good director, but the one great unknown is what kind of scope and vision does he have as a director? He’s never so much as made a short film … I’m not sure even Orci knows whether he’s got the kind of artistic eye that makes a great director.

558. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - April 26, 2014

Um – I’m a bit confused (nothing unusual about that…)

Some posters seem to be playing with the idea that Star Trek 3 has the code name ‘love affair’.

Some seem to be joking and some seem to be serious. Yet, as near as I can see, this all started because Cygnus-X1 noted that that Nicholas Meyer would be busy directing ‘Love Affair’ (projected release date 2015, according to IMDb), and by implication not available for Star Trek 3 anyway.

559. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - April 26, 2014

Um – I’m a bit confused (nothing unusual about that…)

Some posters seem to be playing with the idea that Star Trek 3 has the code name ‘love affair’.

Some seem to be joking and some seem to be serious. Yet, as near as I can see, this all started because Cygnus-X1 noted that that Nicholas Meyer would be busy directing ‘Love Affair’ (projected release date 2015, according to IMDb), and by implication not available for Star Trek 3 anyway.

PS – apologies if this eventually ends up posting twice. My butterfingers mistyped my email address the first time…

560. Khan was Framed! - April 26, 2014

If Bob Orci is allowed to direct this movie, it be the first Star Trek story of any kind that I boycott outright.

He is a terrible story writer who has a 0% record when it comes to success with a sequel.

561. Cygnus-X1 - April 26, 2014

556. Bill Peters – April 26, 2014

you seem to want Star Trek to be a Nich Market that never breaks out

It would be great to have a really high-quality Trek that doesn’t pander to anyone or try to appeal to a mainstream audience at all, but I understand that might not be economically feasible. Or, even if it is, it most likely wouldn’t yield returns that were high enough for Paramount’s investment portfolio.

But, one has to assume that Trek was profitable for all of those years prior to BR taking it over its production. And it managed to keep its integrity intact during much of that time. The point being, there’s a way to make a Trek of integrity that is also profitable. Great movies actually can and do make money.

STID had those Feels and Values to it, or was the Prime Directive left out? Was it not Mentioned that Starfleet isn’t Just a Military Organization

It certainly didn’t feel like Trek to me. They paid lip service for a couple seconds to the Prime Directive, but that’s not even what I’m referring to. I don’t mean that the ideology of the Federation was not represented, but rather that the artistic values sensibilities of Trek were dispensed with. Traditionally, Star Trek was about ideas. About themes. Thoughtful analysis of relevant societal issues set in a futuristic fictional world. Science fiction. BR Trek isn’t about any of that. They pay lip service to it, but not much more. BR Trek is about comic-book style fantasy that doesn’t bother too much with internal logical consistency of the Trek world and where dramatic scenes are more like segues setting up the overabundant action scenes. Themes are paid lip service but not developed. Plot points set up potential conflict but then resolve it 5 minutes later. It’s all very shallow and superficial—the gesture of Trek more than the spirit of Trek.

you seem to want Trek to be one way only and if it isn’t It isn’t Trek to You and the name must be removed and that to me is so wrong.

It’s not that I want it “one” way; it’s that I want it to be Trek. Trek can be done in many ways, but at some point, if you’ve removed enough of the artistic values and sensibilities, it no longer resembles Trek. I’m sure there’s such a point for you as well, though you might not have reached it yet with the BR movies. But if Trek was done, say, as a cheesy slasher/horror movie, like “Friday the 13th” for example, you might start to feel that it was no longer really Trek.

562. Disinvited - April 26, 2014

#549. Phil – April 26, 2014

We have “ambitious home movies:”

http://www.brownpapertickets.com/event/63483

“Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci began their work together as innovative storytellers in a Los Angeles-area high school. Separately, penning original adventure tales and making ambitious home movies, they soon joined forces and dreamed of one day bringing their movies to a mass audience. ” – At the Writers Guild Theater

We have “pull” and “scale”:

http://cinemovie.tv/Commentary/blockbuster-writer-producer-roberto-orci-interview

”Orci used his pull in Hollywood to get PEOPLE LIKE US made, the type of film he says is sorely lacking in this blockbuster-obsessed business.

The Hollywood filmmaker reveals he intended to make personal stories before being sidetracked by Hollywood. Roberto Orci co-wrote PEOPLE LIKE US with his writing and producer partner Alex Kurtzman who makes his debut as a director on the drama. Roberto and Alex Kurtzman have a long history together, personally and professionally.

Roberto Orci tells CineMovie that while he dreamed of working on blockbuster films, he and Alex intended to write smaller indie fare when they started out. Orci calls it “an amazing detour” when they found success in Hollywood with “big movies.” And it wasn’t until we had the success of our other stuff behind us that we were entrusted with making a movie that doesn’t always get made much anymore, according to the producer/writer.

PEOPLE LIKE US is a passion project written long before their Hollywood careers took off. As usual, his writing and producing partner Alex Kurtzman co-wrote the script while Kurtzman made his directorial debut in PEOPLE LIKE US. They recruited Chris Pine after working with him on Star Trek (2009) and set out to make their film after proving themselves in Hollywood. “I’m just so damned tired of aliens and robots in outer space,” he joked with CineMovie, and added their fun family drama was a great way to exercise his storytelling muscles and leave behind the gimmicks of car chases, aliens, and robots.

During our sit down with Roberto Orci, he gave his reasons for collaborating numerous times with directors JJ Abrams and Michel Bay. He credits the mega-successful filmmakers with being secure with their work that they allow others like themselves to contribute ideas while on set. Other directors are not open to input, he said. In addition, Roberto learned “scale” of a project from his frequent collaborators and admire their commitment to character, even while they’re shooting the most outlandish action scene.” – CINEMOVIE 2012

We have an 2 page article rich in details and nuance that I am at a loss as to how to abstract it. Page 2 has an interesting reveal of their pressure and deadline on the 2009 effort:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/24/movies/24dave.html?pagewanted=1&ei=5088&en=f79e77ba7e6fa85e&ex=1340337600&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

563. Phil - April 26, 2014

@558. Just having a little fun with code names….surprised no one suggested Blue Harvest yet.

564. Diskhanbobulated - April 26, 2014

Has anyone ever realized that NuTrek 09 is basically a remake of “Drumline” from 2002? Everything’s there: arrogant cadet/student who has skill but can’t follow direction, father figure who wishes to guide said prodigy to greatness, and intermediate officer/leader who’s jealous he can’t control the kid because the kid beats him at his own game?

And, of course, they both feature Zoe Saldana with an epic final showdown that reveals the prodigy is, in fact, capable of greatness.

Watch them both, you’ll see it for yourself.

565. Phil - April 26, 2014

@564. Never saw Drumline. Have heard similar comparisons made between Avatar and Disney’s Pocahontas.

566. Vultan - April 26, 2014

If Bob Orci does get the job, it will be a first. All previous Trek directors—yes, even William Shatner—had TV episodes or films to their credit before their first Trek movie.

567. Disinvited - April 27, 2014

#566. Vultan – April 26, 2014

Nick Meyer had only 1, count it, 1 film not very well reviewed on his directing, either, but praised for everything else about TIME AFTER TIME. He only got the leg up on TWoK because the Paramount executive responsible for recommending and hiring was his childhood friend. And even at that, Meyer, himself, feels that he wouldn’t have gotten the directing gig if he hadn’t turned in an acceptable script rewrite.

#540. Ahmed – April 26, 2014

Jim Hosney:

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jun/27/entertainment/et-hosney27

Bob’s high school film educator at Crossroads School for Arts and Sciences:

http://www.xrds.org/

“He had us watching Godard’s Weekend in the 11th grade. He also had us writing Marxist analyses of RoboCop and Earth Girls Are Easy. Jim was the first person who taught us to take genre seriously. He’d go on long rants damning us for being bourgeois slackers. If you were a minute late, he’d make you dance in front of the class to the Sex Pistols’ “Who Killed Bambi?” Getting an A from him was like being blessed by the pope. He inspired us to be bold, encouraged our voices, gave us critical eyes, and hung out with us on weekends. We defy anyone on the planet to find a cooler teacher.” – Kurtzman and Orci

“Take Robocop very, very seriously.” – Jim Hosney

568. Oscar - April 27, 2014

Future is star wars Extended Universe or Marvel and DC cinematic Universe, BUT not Star Trek cinematic universe…
Star Trek was the most important Sci Fi universe ever but a bunch of people made a ludicrous reboot and destroyed it. Disney knows better. They do NOT destroy star wars canon, they boost it. Paramount Bad Robot destroyed the most important Sci fi canon because they wanted to earn easy money with a couple of mindless blockbusters…bunch of short sighted guys…
And now, what? And now trekkers have a couple of mediocres movies and a no future Orci’s toy star trek…
Louse business.
They expand new universes.We destroy ours.

569. Captain Slow - April 27, 2014

People like Oscar and Herbert must be really fun to have at parties. Always spreading cheer and joy.

570. Oscar - April 27, 2014

This is not about spreading cheer and joy. This is about star trek and its future. They have extended, cinematic universes ,big plans and a brilliant future.
Star Trek can not make its own extended universe because Paramount Bad Robot destroyed it. They have little ideas, little ambitions and little plans. Not a huge cinematic universe, but three mediocres blockbuster…They do not make risky choices, but easy choices. Star Trek deserves more in its annyversary. You have a lot of good directors out there, a lot of good screenwriters and good producers…and you choose Roberto Orci?
Why? Because he thinks star trek is his toy? Because he wants to prove he is the king of the mountain? Because he wants overshadow Rick Berman, his little obssesion? (Mission Impossible, a propos)
But is this the best choice for Star Trek, present and future? Somebody has to say the king is naked. Somebody has to say little ideas and easy choices mean no future for star trek.

571. Jonboc - April 27, 2014

567, Oscar, you really should try to educate yourself more about the subject you’re ranting on about. Star Trek…only BECAUSE of the reboot…remember, Trek was dead and had no relevance to anyone under the age of 30 just prior to 2009…was poised to do such an expansion. The new, wildly successful re-imagining, opened the door to the Trek universe to the world once again and JJ was willing and wanting to take the Trek universe in many directions, giving Trek that very presence that Star Wars is now enjoying. But he was hitting walls right and left with the unstable relationship between the film studios and CBS, making his expansion plans of the Trek universe impossible. So he went to Star Wars. One only has to witness the fresh expansion of the Star Wars brand to see what might have been.
This wall remains, regardless of who is running Trek. CBS and their unwillingness to give up the $ from TOS related merchandise for the greater, long-term good of the franchise, is the real enemy here. The fault of the Trek universe’s stagnation, ultimately lies at their feet, not Bad Robot’s.

572. dmduncan - April 27, 2014

557. Curious Cadet – April 26, 2014

I disagree with this. You can have the most brilliantly written script in the world, but if your director lacks a keen eye and dramatic vision, most people won’t be able to get past that.

***

It doesn’t matter. Regardless of how a director can screw a story up with a hamfisted or unskilled approach to it, he literally has NOTHING to do unless a story first exists.

I stand by my statement. Writing is the first and most important act of direction, and that is why great directors are either also writers, or deeply involved with the writing of their movies.

As far as what type of “scope and vision” Bob might have. Regarding Star Trek, I think he will have MORE of it next to an ESTABLISHED DIRECTOR who is a FIRST TIMER to Star Trek.

See, the naysayers want an established director, and that will probably mean someone who is not a fan of the franchise. And I would rather risk a fan who is a first time director than an old timer who isn’t a fan.

573. Curious Cadet - April 27, 2014

@562. Disinvited,
“We have “ambitious home movies:”

OK, that qualifies. Seriously. The goal here is some evidence that Orci has some kind of instincts to set up a camera and move it in a way that makes for a compelling story.

In virtually everything else a director has to do, he has more than enough experience.

I doubt Orci will post any of those videos on YouTube for us to evaluate, so I guess were all back in the same boat — will Paramount bite, and does Orci have good enough instincts from his limited childhood experience’s to step into a $150 million special effects driven movie’s director seat? Only time will tell, pointless to debate it. But heck, I’m sure when O&K were making those “ambitious home movies”, at some point they thought they were as good as Spielberg (‘if only they had the same budget’), and I’m sure that’s how Orci recalls it. And who knows, maybe he was right.

574. Curious Cadet - April 27, 2014

@571. dmduncan,
“See, the naysayers want an established director, and that will probably mean someone who is not a fan of the franchise.”

Abrams certainly proves that.

As to writing, I don’t disagree, hard to have a great movie without a great script. On the other hand, there are many great movies where the director was inspired by the subject matter and had nothing to do with the writing. Spielberg is chief among them. Further, there are two different Oscars for writer and director, and yet how often do both go to the same movie, let alone the same person? And how often does one film take the trifecta?

The “naysayers” want a lot of things, mostly odd in this thread. But at the end of the day, we’ve no guarantee the script will be any better than STID (nor do we know how much of it Orci is actually involved), but at least with STID we got a well directed movie that for fans of JJ Abrams was exactly what they expected.

Orci could be the next Orson Welles, who knows. But if it turns out he’s not, there’s a lot of levels of shading between that exalted estimation and the bottom. I’m not sure Trek is in a secure enough place yet to take those kinds of risks. It teeters on the edge of becoming a major franchise, and needs all the weight of success Hollywood can put behind it, otherwise they’re back to producing a perfunctory film for the fans, for whom the director makes little difference.

575. Thorny - April 27, 2014

570… “CBS and their unwillingness to give up the $ from TOS related merchandise for the greater, long-term good of the franchise, is the real enemy here.”

Just curious, how do you know that? How do you know Bad Robot wasn’t demanding, say, 90% of the profits and took their toys and went home when CBS insisted on a 50/50 split, for example?

576. What is it with you? - April 27, 2014

I’m always amazed at the fans who come on here and argue that the plots and themes of the current Trek movies “are a mere shadow” of classic Trek series like TOS or TNG. What rose colored glasses you have!

Trek was always pop Sci-Fi at best, and at it’s worst a serialized formulaic soap opera, replete with mustache-twisting baddies and horrid acting. What you have nostalgia for is the corpus of maybe two dozen transcendent episodes and perhaps thee or four above aberage movies. The rest was satisfying, but boilerplate, regurgitating its own conventions again and again.

What exactly are you expecting from these new movies? Both were decent. The first was well above average for a Trek movie. If you are looking for Citizen Kane, your expectations are seriously skewed.

In other words, manage your expectations. Trek hits the high-art mark perhaps once in twenty tries. Go back and watch the series and tell me I’m not correct.

Average Trek boilerplate is perfectly fine for me. I have fun watching it – kill a red shirt, warp through space, Kirk chop, Spock eyebrow, fire phasers, thin modern relevance to tweak my interest, couple of dudes with forehead ridges. Rince repeat! Its not complicated and it doesn’t need to be Vertigo or Pulp Fiction.

Not to disparage Bob at all – he’s an above average Trek writer in my opinion.

577. dmduncan - April 27, 2014

573. Curious Cadet – April 27, 2014

I don’t expect Bob to be the next Orson Welles, and for Star Trek. I just think he could do better for Star Trek on his own than as part of a team where he is the greatest fan but NOT calling all the important shots, or than an established director who’s not a fan and got hired to do a job.

Bob will have to think of shot construction, timing, the extra footage he needs in case one thing doesn’t work as expected in editing, communicating how he sees things to techs and actors, etc., but no quantum leaps away from what he already knows.

578. dmduncan - April 27, 2014

STiD really felt like too many chefs were cooking the pie; perhaps JJ doesn’t have the skill to take what’s wrong in that situation and make it right.

It will be an entirely different situation with Bob in charge and separated from the other chefs.

579. Oscar - April 27, 2014

570
If Sony can make a cinematic universe only with Spider-Man, Paramount can make a cinematic universe with star trek in spite of CBS. They do not want. They destroyed the most important Sci fi canon ever. What for? For making a new extended cinematic universe? Nope, they only wanted a couple of blockbusters…They should cancel star trek 2016, and return back home, the original timeline. If you return back, you have a extended cinematic universe, the old four quadrants space and its canon, its characters…you can develop it. CBS would say «ok, I agree» or you can make a new reboot and try to construct a new cinematic universe without CBS, with spin off…but they do not want. They despise star trek.
About Orci
Orci wants to direct ST 2016, but he knows, he knows, he is not the right choice. He knows it. But he wants to play a bit more. And yes, he plays… fast and loose with star trek.
Seriously boborci,
Do you think you are the best choice to direct ST?

580. Ahmed - April 27, 2014

@ 571. dmduncan – April 27, 2014

“See, the naysayers want an established director, and that will probably mean someone who is not a fan of the franchise. And I would rather risk a fan who is a first time director than an old timer who isn’t a fan.”

Both Nicholas Meyer & JJ Abrams were not fans & they both gave us good Trek movies (WOK & ST09), so your argument doesn’t make any sense.

581. Emperor Mike of the Alternate Empire - April 27, 2014

1. LLAP – April 22, 2014
Surely this can’t be serious?

We are serious and dob’t call us Shirley.

582. Ahmed - April 27, 2014

@ 562. Disinvited – April 26, 2014

“We have “ambitious home movies:””

Great news, now he is more than qualified to direct a $200 million project!!

But in all seriousness, I don’t think he will do much worse than STID. So why not, give him what he wants.

583. Chain of Command - April 27, 2014

LOL.

Why does Kurtzman always have that “mmmmKayyyyy” look on his face? LOL

584. Disinvited - April 27, 2014

#566. Vultan – April 26, 2014

Nick Meyer had only 1, count it, 1 film not very well reviewed on his directing, either, but praised for everything else about TIME AFTER TIME. He only got the leg up on TWoK because the Paramount executive responsible for recommending and hiring was his childhood friend. And even at that, Meyer, himself, feels that he wouldn’t have gotten the directing gig if he hadn’t turned in an acceptable script rewrite.

#540. Ahmed – April 26, 2014

Jim Hosney:

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jun/27/entertainment/et-hosney27

Bob’s high school film educator at Crossroads School for Arts and Sciences:

http://www.xrds.org/

“He had us watching Godard’s Weekend in the 11th grade. He also had us writing Marxist ana|yses of RoboCop and Earth Girls Are Easy. Jim was the first person who taught us to take genre seriously. He’d go on long rants damning us for being bourgeois slackers. If you were a minute late, he’d make you dance in front of the class to the Sex Pistols’ “Who Killed Bambi?” Getting an A from him was like being blessed by the pope. He inspired us to be bold, encouraged our voices, gave us critical eyes, and hung out with us on weekends. We defy anyone on the planet to find a cooler teacher.” – Kurtzman and Orci

“Take Robocop very, very seriously.” – Jim Hosney

585. Ahmed - April 27, 2014

“He also had us writing Marxist ana|yses ”

RED ALERT

RED ALERT

RED ALERT

586. Oscar - April 27, 2014

My point:
This is not about ST, this is about Orci’s super ego.
I mean, the next ST film is the 50 annyversary film. And he wants to be the main producer , the main screenwriter AND the director. King of Kings, he wants to be the most important guy in star trek history. Roddenberry was only producer and screenwriter. In my country, this is arrogance.
A lot of fans said STID was huge piece of…he insulted them, and now he wants to be main producer, main screenwriter and director…his little vendetta…«you dislike me and you say STID is a piece of…, ok, but I’m the boss, and star trek my toy and you are nothing, this is the proof» Arrogance again.

Bob orci, do you want to direct ST?
Do you think you are the right choice?

587. Disinvited - April 27, 2014

#585. Ahmed – April 27, 2014

Re:RED ALERT

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuunnnieeeeeeeeeee! LOL.

But I suppose consist with his love of TNG?

“In the case of STAR TREK, the screenplay was well served by the push and pull between Mr. Orci, a die-hard fan of the original television show, movies and the syndicated spinoff STAR TREK: The Next Generation, and Mr. Kurtzman, who gave up on the franchise after STAR TREK IV: The Voyage Home.” – Damon Lindelof
.

#586. Oscar – April 27, 2014

Hmmmm…I’m more inclined to go with Kurtzman’s “I think we’re both of the opinion that the first time you direct a movie, it had better be something that’s a really singular expression of yourself. I think that’s the right standard to hold your first movie to, in a lot of ways. So I think that if he finds that, he’ll do it[directing].”

588. Ahmed - April 27, 2014

@ 587. Disinvited – April 27, 2014

“But I suppose consist with his love of TNG?”

Interesting, JD Payne is also a TNG fan. Perhaps we are going to see a crossover with Nu-TNG in the next movie!!

589. Dswynne - April 27, 2014

To those who think that the Abram’s films are not ‘Star Trek':

What IS ‘Star Trek’ to you?

For me, anything that is officially sanctioned by CBS/Paramount is ‘Star Trek’. In fact, I’ll go further and say that anything post-TOS is not ‘Star Trek’, especially if it did not have Gene Coon involved. Still, I accept all aspects of ‘Star Trek’, including fan productions, because I love the franchise, warts and all.

590. Curious Cadet - April 27, 2014

@584. Disinvited,
“Nick Meyer had only 1, count it, 1 film not very well reviewed on his directing, either”

I believe you have already given us the answer for this … the bar was so low on TWOK that anybody could have directed. It had an incredibly low budget, so no major risk for anyone if it failed (and make no mistake TMP made a lot of money to offset any low-budget flops). And in the end, he likely got the job because of cronyism.

If the goal is to demonstrate that after all of that, TWOK turned out pretty good, then Orci has the same 50/50 shot.

Then again, Nick Meyer did have that ONE film under his belt, and most likely learned a lot from both doing it hands on, as well as applying the criticism he received in the aftermath. Orci has NONE of that.

So if your goal is to suggest Orci doesn’t need any of that to have the same success, then I’ll grant you the same 50/50 proposition. Actually, considering Meyer had it, and Orci has had NADA, I’ll give you 60/40 odds instead.

But unlikeTWOK, the bar is set pretty high following two very successful movies. Put the wrong people in charge, and Paramount will have a long time recouping a $150 million picture. I think that’s the distinction being made here.

591. Disinvited - April 27, 2014

# 582. Ahmed – April 27, 2014

“I don’t think he will do much worse than STID. So why not, give him what he wants.” – Ahmed

Well, I agree and I am assuming that he can’t possibly do worse than the directing in TIME AFTER TIME and I am looking forward to seeing if he can translate his passion onto the screen as Meyer did there. And given that I never felt Paramount was willing to put serious money on the table for another name director in the first place, I think he’s the best we are going to get. So why not go with somebody who actually wants to be there, is fired up about it, and already has an on site working relationship with all the people that will be involved with putting it together anyway?

Plus if I recall correctly didn’t Spielberg personally hire him for Transformers? Spielberg, Abrams and Meyer are a hell of set of resources to have in what passes for a Rolodex these days for a tyro director.

592. Kirk - April 27, 2014

Bob Orci is one of us, a Treker. He is okay. Give him a chance! Important to me is another thing: PLEASE go in the next movie to WHERE NO ONE HAS GONE BEFORE!!!!

593. Damian - April 27, 2014

This may certainly end up as a non-issue.

Ultimately Paramount has the final say. It seems STID did not perform to there high expectations. It did extremely well, yes, but there expectations were just a bit higher.

I think they are going to look for Nick Meyer type director. Someone who can come in, potentially make a hit movie with a lower budget. That’s who they are going to want. Just because Orci wants to do it does not automatically mean he will get his wish. I think he will need to meet those 2 conditions to even have a chance at directing.

594. Keachick (Rose) - April 27, 2014

#561 – Most of Star Trek paid little more than lip service to ideas and themes. When writers did so, then too many people complained about it being preachy and that was long before JJ Abrams made a similar comment. Abrams is a newby in this respect.

What Star Trek has done/does is to present an idea, a question and that is what STID has also done. Actually it presented more than one.

As for sensibilities – which sensibilities? what and whose? Some of TUC actually annoyed and offended my sensibilities but obviously not other people’s. STID did not so much.

I tend to remember character moments more than anything else. In TUC, we saw the main characters behaving out of character, starting with Spock. In certain scenes they were not only stupid but mean and nasty with it. Not even Star Trek V (the movie Trekkers love to hate) did such a disservice to these main characters.

As for STID, the opening scenes reveal a young, albeit an overly idealistic?, captain left to make a decision that was inherently very risky but also having the full support of his crew. The reason – to try to prevent the destruction of a people (and world) they had never met and knew little, if anything, about. Why? Because they were sentient beings with lives to live, if only the big volcano did not have to erupt so violently and destructively. The captain of this ship had a technology that could render the destructive force of this volcano inert and so he decided to make use of it, despite certain risks.

There are ways of looking at the scenario presented. Pike and Starfleet took a negative view of what Kirk did (and he wasn’t just blasted for not relating all that happened there), however, as my better half said – one could take the view that, if one has a technology capable of achieving a desired aim, in this case preventing a volcanic eruption wiping out millions, then surely one has a moral imperative to use such technology. It would seem that this latter view is also the one that Kirk, Spock et al held and acted upon.

These people acted with good intention, with no hint of ill will or malice, in saving the people. Indeed, the only person who acted, upon being saved, with a certain lack of graciousness was Spock, which is why Dr McCoy said, “Ah, he’s alright” and walked away in disgust and cause Uhura to throw down her ear piece…

My sensibilities were not offended by this at all – far from it. They were heroes!

As for “pandering”, what does that even mean? Film makers make a film in the hopes that as many people will want to see their film as possible and that they will hopefully enjoy it and tell others. If that is “pandering”, then just about everybody on this earth could be accused of that. We all do things that we hope others will like; we “pander” to their interests etc when we buy a birthday present that we know or hope the recipient will find useful, enjoyable etc. Some people might even describe some of these actions as being nice, generous, thoughtful etc.

595. Disinvited - April 27, 2014

#590. Curious Cadet – April 27, 2014

Well, as I said to Ahmed, I think as he already has on the site and set working relationships with all the people who are going to be putting the film together anyway, and that he can bring savings in eliminating the costs involved with all the getting acquainted introductory phase, And as I said: he has resources in his “Rolodex” that Meyer never had going into Trek.

And I also think Paramount is looking to lowend its BlockBuster investment this time around. They are likely to follow Sony’s Spider-Man strategy (Hell, the guy we are typing about is a part of their Spider-Man strategy.) which makes this a lameduck STAR TREK to make a political type of frame for it. If it becomes a runaway hit they can reevaluate but I think Paramount is expect another reboot after this 3rd installment – just as was done with Spiderman.
.

#592. Damian – April 27, 2014

I agree. There is no guarantee he’s going to get hired. He has pull, but not the kind of pull with Paramount that could have gotten his movie PEOPLE LIKE US made through them. He’s going to have to win it on the merit of his presentation. But it is his to win or lose. However, if he gets it, I intend to wish him well.

596. Disinvited - April 27, 2014

#554. Ahmed – April 26, 2014

The printer was low on paper and ink, and I just wanted to make Bob be the guy to have to feed the beast reprinting his script pages. ;-))))))

597. oscar - April 27, 2014

Oh, come on, Orci is the guy who co-destroyed Star Trek: non sensical and simplistic story, continuity inconsistencies, gimmicks, puns, cringe worthy dialogue, cartoonish caricature of the original characters….no original ideas and a lot of ransack…this is Orci formula in star trek, in Spider man…
I quote DAVID MACK, star trek best seller author:
«This kind of crap just boils down to the writers not giving a damn about remaining consistent with ANY of the +40 years of work that had been done on the franchise before they come along»

598. Disinvited - April 27, 2014

#597. oscar – April 27, 2014

After reading, JJ and Damon’s statements regarding their essential contributions to their Trek’s writing, I’m just not ready to lay all that on Bob’s sole shoulders. One thing’s for sure, in going after this he is demonstrating a lot of guts, if he manages to get the gig and fails, he will remove all doubt, and history, and you will excoriate him for it.

I remind you:

“In the case of STAR TREK, the screenplay was well served by the push and pull between Mr. Orci, a die-hard fan of the original television show, movies and the syndicated spinoff STAR TREK: The Next Generation, and Mr. Kurtzman, who gave up on the franchise after STAR TREK IV: The Voyage Home.” – Damon Lindelof

599. Mike Barnett - April 27, 2014

597. oscar

“non sensical and simplistic story, continuity inconsistencies, gimmicks, puns, cringe worthy dialogue, cartoonish caricature of the original characters”

Are you referring to that wonderful prime universe movie, Star Trek V The Final Frontier?

600. Disinvited - April 27, 2014

#590. Curious Cadet – April 27, 2014

Now here’s something odd I turned up trying to dig up more entries in Bob’s Rolodex. The NYTimes resource says:

http://www.nytimes.com/movies/person/359020/Roberto-Orci?inline=nyt-per

“Has Worked With:

Chris Cooper
The Amazing Spider-Man 2

Michael Caine
Now You See Me

Harrison Ford
Ender’s Game

Benicio Del Toro
Star Trek Into Darkness

Philip Baker Hall
People Like Us”

I wonder what the story is behind that Del Toro entry?

601. Oscar - April 27, 2014

599
Star Trek V is better than STID. ST V is a more ambitious film (the search of God) than STID and ST V has an original story. STID is a role reverse replay of ST II. ST V is a mediocre film, ok, but a true STAR TREK film. STID is a bad film and it is not star trek but gijoe.
598
«Orci is a die hard fan» …a die hard fan who has turned the original star trek into a caricature of the original he is supposed portraying.
If this guy is a «die hard fan» ,I’m the great chief comanche Quanah Parker

602. Nony - April 27, 2014

I appreciate that Bob Orci is a fan and is passionate about it all, but I don’t like the idea of someone who was part of the team responsible for STID to essentially be the auteur of the next movie. A year later, I’m still feeling disheartened by my disappointment in something I was so much looking forward to loving; I need somebody new to the franchise in the director’s chair, because my expectations are in the basement as it stands and having Bob direct would just magnify my concerns.

603. Mike Barnett - April 27, 2014

601 Quanah Parker

LOL….I needed to breath into a paper bag after I read your first sentence, ‘Star Trek V is better than STID’. Good one, thanks for the laugh.

604. Spock's Bangs - April 27, 2014

Orci IS Star Trek right now. Bad Robot IS Star Trek right now. You don’t have to like it, but it’s the truth!!

FACT!!

605. Ahmed - April 27, 2014

@ 604. Spock’s Bangs – April 27, 2014

“FACT!!”

Are you related to RDR by any chance ? :-)

606. Keachick - April 27, 2014

Oscar has to be a troll – that I have to say – The hyperbole and bs in the posts are really second to none.

Roberto Orci was not pulling to be director of People Like Us. That was always, first and foremost, Alex Kurtzman’s project, which was based on/inspired by his own real life experience. The movie was from *K/O Paper Products, which automatically included Roberto Orci, and Jody Lambert as the third, guest writer. People Like Us has nothing to do with Orci’s desire to be the next Star Trek’s director.

Why even the reference, let alone all the associated nonsense?

*BTW, Bob/Alex – I have to say that I love your four hands typing on the really old fashioned typewriter trademark. Excellent…:)!

607. Spock's Bangs - April 27, 2014

Nah, Ahmed, no relation to Red!

FACT!

608. Red Dead Ryan - April 27, 2014

#601. Oscar (The Grouch),

“Star Trek V is better than STID. ST V is a more ambitious film (the search of God) than STID and ST V has an original story. STID is a role reverse replay of ST II. ST V is a mediocre film, ok, but a true STAR TREK film. STID is a bad film and it is not star trek but gijoe.”

Excuse me, “Star Trek V’ is a complete turd of a movie. STID might have some flaws, but it’s still one of the better movies in the franchise.

Why don’t you and your fellow haters just stick to the old movies, and let the rest of us enjoy the new ones? Honestly, I’m not sure why you guys continue to bother commenting about anything to do with the BR movies when you hate them so much. You’ve pretty much made up your mind about the third movie already, which hasn’t even begun production yet!

609. Trekbilly - April 27, 2014

There is one thing good about Star Trek V — the musical score by Jerry Goldsmith…lol

610. Spock's Bangs - April 27, 2014

608. “You’ve pretty much made up your mind about the third movie already, which hasn’t even begun production yet!”

BOOM!! Truth Bomb!!

611. Disinvited - April 27, 2014

#606. Keachick – April 27, 2014

Did you even read the article?:

http://cinemovie.tv/Commentary/blockbuster-writer-producer-roberto-orci-interview

No one was talking about him “pulling” to be the director, but rather that he had “pull” in Hollywood which is power. The kind of power that is desirable quality for a blockbuster director to have, tyro or not. The article also reveals that Roberto specifically has a sense of “scale” (important in taking on a directing project of this scope) and how he got it.

612. Disinvited - April 27, 2014

#601. Oscar – April 27, 2014

So, let me get this straight, you are say the search for Spock was better than the search for God which was better than the search for Khan?

613. Phil - April 27, 2014

@601. Must be a head scratcher for you that Generations didn’t win the Oscar….

614. Keachick - April 27, 2014

One thing that is known about Bob Orci is that he wrote a scene for William Shatner to appear as a holographic projection that prime Spock was to have shown to the young alt. Kirk. The Supreme Court vetoed the idea.

Initially Bob Orci wrote John Harrison to be simply John Harrison, but others in the Supreme Court wanted this character to actually be Khan. He was, yet again, vetoed, which meant that STID featured a character Harrison/Khan, which has lead to much indignation among some and general controversy.

In light of this, if Bob Orci does get the director’s job, it would be interesting to see what he might bring to this third movie that could not be so easily vetoed by others….hmmmm

615. Bill Peters - April 27, 2014

514, his Ideas were voted down this is Correct, I also know that people seem to be hating a Film they have not yet seen based on who or what is Involved without seeing this, I am both seeing this with Disney’s take over of Star Wars saying Episode 7 Will suck and Trek fans all up in arms about the 50th without seeing a Scrip or the movie itself…this to me is Weird and goes against the Idea of don’t Judge a book by it Cover.

576. What is it with you? I agree with all you points, they are Vaild but some fans seem to think Trek is best when a Minimal Market but that isn’t a way to get new Trek at all or new anything in the real world.

616. Harry Ballz - April 28, 2014

Hey, if Kirk can go from Cadet to Captain in one day, why can’t a guy go from being a screenwriter to director of a multi-million dollar movie franchise without even having directed traffic?

I mean, c’mon, no need to pay your dues these days. Move to the top without earning it.

If that’s how they depict it in film, thus it should be in life.

I weep for the next generation.

617. Elias Javalis - April 28, 2014

I believe Treks better without multi platform.
Anyway, bob, what about first draft. When in May?

618. Oscar - April 28, 2014

612
I say ST V is a mediocre film but a true star trek film. Its soul is pure star trek. STID is star trek only in name, its soul is Gijoe.
If you want to know why Orci it is not the right choice, you should read David Mack, star Trek best seller author.
http://www.davidmack.pro/blog/?p=4532#more-4532

619. Mad Mann - April 28, 2014

@616 Harry Ballz

Good points. But is Orci really ready for the “chair?” Does he respect it? Will he sacrifice himself for the crew?

620. PaulB - April 28, 2014

#594 Keachick “In TUC, we saw the main characters behaving out of character, starting with Spock. In certain scenes they were not only stupid but mean and nasty with it. Not even Star Trek V (the movie Trekkers love to hate) did such a disservice to these main characters.”

YES! This, this, this! I loathe TUC more than any other Trek film because so many fans love it while it does everything you just wrote.

But even TUC still felt like it happened in the Star Trek universe, even though the characters were twisted out of recognition. STID feels like Trek has shifted into something…different. Not necessarily bad, just something that many of us do not like in our Trek.

I’m glad to see you saying what you did about TUC. I’m usually openly mocked for complaining about how TUC made a joke out of the characters. Thanks for saying it so well.

621. Jonboc - April 28, 2014

If you don’t like Trek 5, you must be a continuity freak, a Shat hater, or a Next Gennie Trekkie. Trek 5 is dripping TOS…in many regards, moreso than the other TOS films. if you can’t see that, you don’t know TOS, and I can’t help you.

I think unfamiliarity with the original series must be behind much of the contempt held against Bad Robot’s Trek. if you know your TOS, then it’s easy to see how Bad Robot did the impossible, and knocked it out of the ballpark. if you’re primarily a fan of Next Gen and it’s spin-offs, then you’re clearly in unexplored territory as those series are NOTHING like TOS. But these new movies ARE based on Star Trek. Not TNG. Not DS9. Not Voyager. Not Enterprise. The new movies only have to live up to one thing, and that is Star Trek, circa 1966. And, so far, they have done that beautifully.

622. Disinvited - April 28, 2014

# 619. Mad Mann – April 28, 2014

“But is Orci really ready for the “chair?” Does he respect it? Will he sacrifice himself for the crew?” – Mad Mann

Good questions.

One thing is for certain, his NOT getting the chair isn’t going to minimize his influence on the next Trek narrative, regardless.

623. Disinvited - April 28, 2014

# 619. Mad Mann – April 28, 2014

Re:Respect

It is bothersome that in the picture atop this chain that Bob can’t seem to manage a proper thumb extension in his Vulcan salute. Are you reading something into that?

624. Tom - April 28, 2014

614 Keachick

“One thing that is known about Bob Orci is that he wrote a scene for William Shatner to appear as a holographic projection that prime Spock was to have shown to the young alt. Kirk. The Supreme Court vetoed the idea.”

Ithink t will be interesting to see if Bob revisits this. JJ is still prodecer but you would have to think Bob will have more clout. Bob had stated that one of his regrets was not getting to do that for Trek 09. I think this movie would be a great time to at least explore the possibility of it again, given the 50th anniversary and all.

625. Cygnus-X1 - April 28, 2014

621. Jonboc – April 28, 2014

If you don’t like Trek 5, you must be a continuity freak, a Shat hater, or a Next Gennie Trekkie. Trek 5 is dripping TOS…in many regards, moreso than the other TOS films. if you can’t see that, you don’t know TOS, and I can’t help you.

You’re definitely in the minority here. Most people, fans and critics, didn’t like STV.

You’re right that the story was actually TOS. STV was an theme-driven movie, which is very TOS, and its theme had a lot of potential. The main problems all seem to have stemmed from Shatner as director. And maybe some problems in the script, too. The casting of Laurence Luckenbill as Sybok was probably also a problem. As one reviewer wrote (paraphrasing), Luckenbill did too good a job at being a creepy cult leader.

I think unfamiliarity with the original series must be behind much of the contempt held against Bad Robot’s Trek. if you know your TOS, then it’s easy to see how Bad Robot did the impossible, and knocked it out of the ballpark. if you’re primarily a fan of Next Gen and it’s spin-offs, then you’re clearly in unexplored territory as those series are NOTHING like TOS. But these new movies ARE based on Star Trek. Not TNG. Not DS9. Not Voyager. Not Enterprise. The new movies only have to live up to one thing, and that is Star Trek, circa 1966. And, so far, they have done that beautifully.

No idea what you could possibly be thinking here. These comments bear no resemblance to reality, as far as I’m concerned.

Firstly, TOS was not an action series. There was very little action in it. It was primarily a theme-driven, ideas-driven series. The BR movies have been exactly the opposite—weak on themes and ideas—overabundant in action scenes.

Secondly, the relation between TOS and the other TV series was in them all being (for the most part) idea/theme-driven. The episodes usually tried to be “about” something and, more often than not, succeeded (at least in TNG). The ideas/themes dropped off in DS9, as the space-opera, drama-for-the-sake-of-drama became more prominent in that series. But, generally, there was still a seasonal arc whose purpose was to illustrate some soci-political phenomenon or theme—it just wasn’t as strong or as compelling as the themes and ideas presented in TNG episodes.

VOY actually tried to get back to the TNG formula of a strong idea/theme per episode, but that series had other problems. The screenwriting was often half-baked and the overall vision for the series and the characters was weak and muddled.

ENT in its 3rd and 4th Seasons (in my opinion) got even closer and often succeeded at marrying the best of DS9’s slowly developing, season-long arcs with TNG’s idea/theme-per-episode format.

The BR Trek movies are the opposite of TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT in that they are very weak on themes/ideas and mostly action-driven. The plots of the movies are confused, even as the movies have been primarily plot-driven (as opposed to character or theme-driven). Basically, the BR Trek movies haven’t really been “about” much, if anything. ST09 was a revenge story, but the villain had a weak motive for revenge and was poorly written. STID made a half-hearted effort to be about a slew of things, but wound up being about nothing in particular. I can’t even tell you what that movie was about — some mundane observation about “family,” two bad guys who each want revenge against each other, Kirk and Spock both behaving out of character…we’ve analyzed that movie and its many problems to death already around here. The point being, neither ST09 or STID bears any resemblance to TOS at more than the most superficial level—the names and likenesses.

626. Silvereyes - April 28, 2014

622 Disinvited

“One thing is for certain, his NOT getting the chair isn’t going to minimize his influence on the next Trek narrative, regardless.”

Unfortunately, you are quite right.

627. Trekboi - April 28, 2014

After hiring no name no experiance writers, If Paramout gives Orci the Directing job it shows they have given up on star trek again & no longer giving it the summer tent pole blockbuster treatment they gave Trek 09 & Into Disaster.

They are gunna go cheap & give us Superman 4 & hope we eat it.
I can see the promotion of the film “written by newbies & directed by nobody”

Looks like this really is going to be a disaster.

628. Disinvited - April 28, 2014

#626. Trekboi – April 28, 2014

I don’t think Paramount is giving up on it. They are just in love with their following the other franchises’ template which is: after 3 you rinse and repeat.

629. Trekbilly - April 28, 2014

My biggest problem with Star Trek V was execution and the forced “humor”. That, and it was the tackiest looking of ALL the films.

I didn’t have a problem with the story per se…

630. Bart - April 28, 2014

Well because of Bob’s obvious love for Trek, I’d be all in favor of him directing as well as writing. But has he ever directed anything before, even small screen?

631. Keachick (Rose) - April 28, 2014

Last night, younger son was watching TOS on the small analogue TV while I watched disc 1 of Season 3 of Enterprise.

There seemed to be quite a bit of action going in the TOS episodes he was watching, judging by the music. Quite a bit of violent action occurred in the episodes of Enterprise that I watched as well. Both have been written for the prime universe. BR’s Star Trek and STID feel as if they are a continuation of Enterprise more so than the 1966/69 TOS. This has to do with the general feel, the greater *darkness* in how some of the Starfleet hierarchy behave – their secretiveness, duplicity, cynicism etc.

There was a certain innocence (for want of a better word) in the 1960’s which is where and how TOS came to be. Over the last 30/40 years, a good deal of the hope and innocence of many of that 60’s younger generation has been lost, dashed and that has been reflected in the various Star Treks, especially the later Enterprise.

What the film STID seems to show is that the things that Marcus thought were weaknesses – eg he clearly regarded Kirk as being *weak* in that he screamed at Kirk about Kirk not being fit to lead any fight etc, can actually be strengths. Marcus had become blinded by his fears, his ambition to prove himself as leader and warrior (by any means) that he had “lost the plot”. Kirk also “lost the plot” after Pike had been killed, but his first officer and chief engineer were able to remind him of it again. Kirk was more easily able to ignore Dr McCoy, but what Bones was also telling him must have niggled him a bit as well.

Marcus was able to get rid of anyone who would/could counter him. This is because it is possible that Marcus never truly “got the plot” in the first place and was, from the outset, a more secretive and duplicitous person by nature than Kirk and Spock et al could ever be. This is why Marcus was so keen to get rid of those commanding the Enterprise, even if it meant destroying the whole ship and all of its crew. If Pike had not been killed by H/K, Marcus would have found a way to get rid of him, just as he wanted Kirk and Spock out of the way. Why? – one word – NIbiru.

Star Trek has never always been about giving answers but presenting scenarios that hopefully prompts a viewer to think!

I cannot see anything in the way of genuine intellectual thought inherent in posts like that of Oscar’s.

632. Jonboc - April 28, 2014

#625, Cygnus-X1, I’ve never been one to jump on the Trek 5 bash-wagon. There has always been contempt towards Shatner, even more so after his “Get a Life” sketch on SNL. Some people can’t distance themselves from that in order to look at the film objectively. Shatner’s work on Trek 5, under scrutiny, actually proves he has a very good eye for frame composition. Much of the arguments don’t hold water…searching the crew’s for God, Uhura’s fan dance, etc. Most of the complaints fans levy against Trek 5 can be found, in abundance, in other movies, and especially the series. Yet, those same detractors, seem to be ok with those types of problems when presented with them somewhere else. If you don’t Like Trek 5, because it has too many decks in the turbo lift, at least have the consistency to hate on The Enemy Within because Kirk’s delta patch is missing from his tunic ( only to have it magically appear later on.)

And Star Trek, if you seek out the original series’ bible, you’ll see was conceived as an action adventure science fiction series. it was categorized as action/adventure in the TV guide. It, quite literally, was Wagon Train to the stars…a western in space. The formula was fairly common. A hero, some co-stars to bounce ideas off of and add comic relief…a guest star with a problem, an antagonist, perhaps a love interest, and along to way, to our resolution…a rip-snorting fist-fight or two. Star Trek, in it’s execution, is no different than Gunsmoke, Bonanza or any other number of westerns, including the most obvious parallel…Wagon Train….rolling place to place, finding new guest stars with new problems with each destination.

People want to paint Trek as this revolutionary series, full of morality plays, and that simply wasnt the case. They had moral dilemmas, but no more than Marshal Dillion or Ben Cartright or Eddie’s Father! The cherry on top TOS was the science fiction setting…telling such stories in a serious manner, but surrounded by sci-fi trappings, was where the series broke new ground. TNG and it’s spin-offs are more akin to the nighttime soap opera Peyton Place than any Western. I found TNG, sadly, unimaginative, very talky, afraid of action, humor and conflict and as far removed from Star Trek’s formula as you can get. Out of the hundreds of hours produced, there are maybe 5 that I can re-watch. Some entertaining drama here and there, but not even close to Star Trek, as defined by what hit the airwaves in 1966. Bad Robot is using the right formula, just on steroids…as it has to be, if it is going to have any chance of being relevant in this day and age.

Like I said, if people can’t see that Bad Robot has successfully recreated and implemented the ORIGINAL (not TNG) formula, it’s clear those folks haven’t watched much TOS. I think they are looking for more Bermanized Trek, and when dealing with TOS based source material, they’re just not going to find it… so they’re grumpy. :)

633. crazydaystrom - April 28, 2014

627. Trekboi
“They are gunna go cheap & give us Superman 4 & hope we eat it.”

Ugh! Worst case scenario! Let’s hope it’s not that bad! I just have to keep thinking that no matter what happens it going to be at least alright. Or that this next one will be the best of the BR Treks even.

I’m waiting and we will see.

When I look at how other studios are handling franchises I KNOW Star Trek could be treated better. Why is it not? Boggles my mind.

634. Keachick (Rose) - April 28, 2014

My post has not appeared. Did I click on “Say it” or not? I hope I did because I don’t feel like retyping everything.

635. Keachick (Rose) - April 28, 2014

Oh look – it has appeared…duh. I put this down to my not quite getting over the sniffles…:( ’tis autumn (US fall) and yesterday, the temperature went down with a bang.

“If Pike had not been killed by H/K, Marcus would have found a way to get rid of him, just as he wanted Kirk and Spock out of the way. Why? – one word – NIbiru.”

This should read – If Pike had not been killed by H/K, Marcus would have found a way to get rid of him as well. The main reason, I think, he wanted Kirk and Spock out of the way was – one word – Nibiru. Think about intention, motivation on Kirk and Spock’s part…

636. Trekbilly - April 28, 2014

#631 — AMEN!!!

637. Keachick (Rose) - April 28, 2014

For me, the main problem that three Star Trek movies, in particular, have is in the way the passage of time is dealt with. These films are Star Trek V and the latest two BR films.

Star Trek V dragged in places. I think the idea was to give the audience both the notion that the voyage to the Barrier would take time, even at warp, and to show that the crew (other than Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Scotty) were in a kind of trance due to the great telepathic, hypnotic powers that Sybok had.

Unfortunately, it didn’t quite work for me and some of the film simply came across as being dull, what with slow camera shots of showing everybody standing around looking dopey…sigh…nod off…wake me up if/when… that kind of thing.

However, with the BR films, we have the exact opposite occurring. Time feels abnormally compressed and that doesn’t quite work for me either. With Star Trek and STID, there needed to be more dialogue which gave the audience a sense of just how much time it would take to get to Vulcan or Kronos respectively. From my understanding of both Trek universes, both voyages could actually take 2/3 days, or at least 24 hours, even at warp, but that was never elucidated.

For STID, this could have been shown with at least one example – Kirk, Spock and Uhura “having it out” in Kirk’s quarters, for instance, rather than on the shuttle craft while on their way to Kronos. Clearly, Kirk kept picking up on the fact that Spock and Uhura were at odds which is why he asked them both if their working together would be a problem, just before boarding the shuttle. If that scene had been shown to have happened on the Enterprise, then all Kirk needed to ask them both could be “Are you guys still good?”

Please – Bob Orci…don’t compress the legitimate passage of time but neither do I want drag either. It’s been a little problem with both *your* movies so far.

638. Disinvited - April 28, 2014

#631. Jonboc – April 28, 2014

If indeed it was like a TV Western drama it was more like HAVE GUN WILL TRAVEL or MAVERICK than WAGON TRAIN and there’s definitely an argument to be made for that when you have scripts by Sam Peeples and S Bar David, but how do you account for the others by Richard Matheson, Theodore Sturgeon, Harlan Ellison, Robert Bloch, and Norman Spinrad, SF authors all; not to mention the scriptwriters and directors that came over from the TWILIGHT ZONE?

639. Keachick (Rose) - April 28, 2014

Are the numbers getting skewed here? On my screen, my post is #631, not Jonboc’s, which is #632. Just saying…

640. Disinvited - April 28, 2014

#639. Keachick (Rose) – April 28, 2014

For future reference, as I get caught by it several times too. The bad language content filter grabs occurrences of the four letters “ana|” as you used in “ana|ogue”. I’m using “|” as an ‘l’.

When it grabs your message for moderation it assigns the next message in the chain the number yours would have had until Matt brings it out of moderation. At which time, your message gets restored its original number which causes all the numbers after it to jump around.

641. Vultan - April 28, 2014

#632

“People want to paint Trek as this revolutionary series, full of morality plays, and that simply wasnt the case.”

Don’t bother with the Wagon Train to the Stars pitch to the network; that was for business majors. Instead read the TOS writer’s guide. It cuts to the heart of what the show really was, and yes, morality plays, social commentary, etc. were apart of its action adventure planet of the week anthology formula.

From the guide:

“Then, with that firm foundation established, interweave in it any statement to be made about man, society and so on. Yes, we want you to have something to say, but say it entertainingly as you do on any other show.”

http://www.bu.edu/clarion/guides/Star_Trek_Writers_Guide.pdf

642. Cygnus-X1 - April 28, 2014

632. Jonboc – April 28, 2014

Yeah, I guess we just have wildly different tastes.

Frankly, the way that you feel about TNG, I can’t imagine what you like about Star Trek in general.

Regarding TOS, it doesn’t really matter to me what it was originally billed as, the fact is that it was an idea/theme-driven show. It wasn’t a shoot-em-up, run-around action romp. It just wasn’t. That’s the beginning and the end of that point for me.

643. Jonboc - April 28, 2014

# 638 Disinvited…indeed, the call was out for science fiction writers to contribute and they did….they weren’t in the majority of the 79 episodes, but they certainly gave the series a science fiction edge like none before, aside from, perhaps, the Twilight Zone…which I believe to be more science fiction, than Trek…which I still believe has it’s roots firmly planted in the sod of the old west. Consider this story…

An weary and unconcious Indian, slumped in his saddle, rides into town, only to be found and nursed back to health by old Doc McCoy. Marshall Kirk and his loyal deputy, Spock, look into the situation and find a tired Indian with strange markings on his face. Their curiosity rises even more when word reaches them that another Indian has ridden into towin, seemingly sporting the same scarred face, asking questions around town, looking for his escaped “prisoner”…another Indian with similar markings. As the history of both Indians unfold, the Marshall isn’t at all convinced the Indians are being truthful in their accounts of their relationship and the depth of their unusual hate for one another is a prejudice that has Marshall Kirk questioning the law, himself and facing decisions unlike any he has faced before.

Sound familiar? Trek’s trappings may have been futuristic, but the stories of trials, struggling and overcoming the many unknown dangers of the wild frontier we’re hardly exclusive.

644. Trekbilly - April 28, 2014

There was PLENTY of action in TOS! Kirk being a man of action is what made my #1 sci fi hero growing up. There were plenty of space battles and fisticuffs in the original show. It had basically the same tone as Wild Wild West and Gunsmoke.

But, it had all that with the morality plays built in.

Some episodes were talky, sure…but I’ve always thought of TOS as action adventure.

645. dswynne - April 28, 2014

@620 (PaulB): Could you cite examples as to how Kirk and company were not “in character” in TUC? ‘Cuz, I don’t see it…

646. Disinvited - April 28, 2014

#643. Jonboc – April 28, 2014

I already acknowledged with Roddenberry coming out of HAVE GUN WILL TRAVEL and hiring writers from there that there’s an argument to be made that it draws on the more intelligently written westerns. However, your first attempt to try to paint it as a pedestrian episode of WAGON TRAIN just doesn’t fly. I can’t find evidence of one writer who wrote for that show that also wrote for STAR TREK [Not claiming my search was exhaustive but if there was a much cross-pollination as you suggest, I expected finding one to be a LOT more easier.]

“THE STAR TREK FORMAT…

A CAPTAIN – Jim Kirk

A FIRST OFFICER – Mister Spock

A GROUP OF REGULARS – who make up our
“television family” (Doctor McCoy, Scotty, Uhura, Sulu, Nurse Christine, and others as detailed later).

“GUEST STARS – if the story demands it, but with a story which also emphasizes our Series Leads.

ON A GIANT STARSHIP – a familiar “television home base” (The U.S.S. Enterprise).

ON PATROL OF A SECTION OF OUR GALAXY- our vessel representing Earth and the Federation (assisting colonists, aiding in scientific exploration, putting down conflicts, helping those in distress, regulating trade, engaging in diplomatic missions., and so on.)

YES, THE STAR TREK FORMAT IS ACTUALLY THAT SIMPLE.” – STAR TREK
WRITERS/DIRECTORS GUIDE

For a fresh perspective lets see how they view Westerns across the pond:

“Stylisticaly, the series [WAGON TRAIN] had a distinctive format; each episode featured the problems of one of the pioneers, usually a newcomer. Invariably, the story was of some moral complexity.”

Sorry, doesn’t quite fit but the moral complexity sounds familiar. GUNSMOKE?:

“Stylistically, the series [GUNSMOKE] – also known as Gun Law and syndicated under the title Matt Dillon – was often of top calibre, shot with a no-nonsense, spare, style.” – The TV Western, BBC, 2002

Spare style? The only episode I regard as having anything close to a “spare style” was the episode SPECTRE OF THE GUN, a “western” only in the sense of a TWILIGHT ZONE type, and Trek’s eerie FX alone in this episode would knock GUNSMOKE’s sparseness on its ass in its day. But the “often top calibre” sounds familiar.

647. Yuppers - April 29, 2014

2 words: Nick Meyer

648. Disinvited - April 29, 2014

#645. dswynne – April 28, 2014

Well, I can sort of see that in the series we have Kirk hot off THE CONSCIENCE OF THE KING in ARENA flashing back to Kodos The Executioner’s mass killings of man, woman and child in the Gorn destruction of the colony, and ready to kill because of it. Yet decides “We could have been wrong. I will not kill today.” Fast forward to TUC and he’s extremely bigoted towards all Klingons as if the lesson the Metrons helped him to learn is totally forgotten. He says “Let them [Klingons] die.” with such dripping contempt you can almost hear the unspoken “It saves me the trouble of doing it.”

And while I buy Scotty as an engineer having to crawl into all kinds of Federation spaces for maintenance and repairs, being the goto guy to figure out the sniper’s hiding space, it is just odd that now he’s an expert marksman with hand weapons. He wears a red shirt but he’s not security who I’d expect to be the better marksmen. Especially since he’s been more a lover than a fighter [Yes, he knows how to throw a punch but it seems his instincts are to not throw one too quickly.] or killer. Plus, in this film he looks like everyone’s kindly favorite uncle or Captain Kangaroo himself and its jarring.

Anyway, that’s just my take on the sort of things he must be addressing?

649. PaulB - April 29, 2014

#645 TUC twisted the characters to fit the political story of Nimoy and Meyer. These are well-documented issues, but here are some highlights:
-Kirk hates the Klingons and says, “We’ve never been this close” despite having had Klingons ON THE ENTERPRISE in the STV. In STIII, even after the Klingons on Genesis kill David, Kirk doesn’t kill the one on the Bird of Prey, and he tried to avoid killing Kruge. Kirk’s entire character is changed to “hate the Klingons” despite his history.
-Uhura not only cannot speak Klingon, but she can’t even fake it well from a (sigh) printed dictionary. (That whole scene made ALL of the involved characters look like idiots.) She is made to look grossly incompetent just to force the story along.
-Chekov is too stupid to know that alien crewmembers have alien feet?!?! (If you don’t know the scene I’m referring to, you don’t know TUC well enough to defend it). And the WORST part of Chekov is his “Unalienable human rights” comment. Seriously!? How frakkin’ stupid were Nimoy and Meyer that they put such idiotic words into Chekov’s mouth? He’s a Starfleet officer with DECADES of deep-space experience, so that comment was–again–shoved into his mouth ONLY to make the producers’ political points.
-Spock…sigh…Spock is too stupid to know that Kirk will be upset about being sent to the Klingons, whom TUC’s Kirk loathes beyond belief. So, Spock not only volunteers Kirk for a mission that Kirk would never go for, but he doesn’t even know Kirk!

Again, there are plenty of other detailed examples, but they are easily found online from others (and me) complaining in the past. But the TUC characters were not consistent with the TOS characters or their movie versions prior to TUC.

Beyond the characters, it’s a bad movie in so many ways. (They think they fired torpedoes because they LOOK like they come from near the Enterprise. Um…even today’s computers would be able to track the torpedoes precisely enough to know they came from NEAR the ship, meaning not FROM the ship. This, like all the other “mysteries” of the movie, is idiotic.

The flaws of TUC as so obvious that I’ll never understand why so many fans love it.

650. PaulB - April 29, 2014

#647 – Those are a couple of the character problems with TUC, definitely. I can handle Scotty being a sharpshooter, but the stupidity around his entire search for the boots, etc. is too painful to watch.

651. Mad Mann - April 29, 2014

@ PaulB

Yes! Thank you! I never understood why so many fans regarded TUC so highly! I mean, it does have some cool things about it, but the crew are all so out of character that it’s stupid!

I can’t even think about the Uhura-not-speaking-Klingon scene without getting upset.

652. Disinvited - April 29, 2014

#649. PaulB – April 29, 2014

I can handle it too but of all the bridge crew it was established Sulu was the weapons aficionado so you’d expect the job should fall to him as a marksman. If I recall, he got to fire some shots with hand weapons.

And you have identified another one of my Nimoy bugaboos about how his changing his waffling mind about leaving Spock dead derailed a decent narrative arc that was originally planned from II forward to improvise one that was very uneven. I like Nimoy and I’m glad he got to direct but I’m just not happy about what it did to Trek overall for him to get there.

This is why I have trouble when people assert he knows what’s best for Trek. Uh, not always…

653. I am not Herbert - April 29, 2014

…not the biggest fan of ST5, but it certainly IS better than nu-trek =P

boborci: hurry up and squeeze out that last turd, so we can move on to something better =(

654. I am not Herbert - April 29, 2014

WE ARE MADE OF LIGHT (and love) ;-)

http://thespiritscience.net/2014/04/18/biophotons-demonstrate-were-all-made-of-light/#more-20756

655. Jonboc - April 29, 2014

#646 Disinvited “However, your first attempt to try to paint it as a pedestrian episode of WAGON TRAIN just doesn’t fly. ”

On the contrary, it’s the best fit on the most basic level. The structure of the storytelling was that of a Wagon Train on the move. Unlike other westerns with the regulars permanently set in one location, usually a town, Wagon Train set the characters on a “Trek” across the the untamed west…facing both the dangers of the wildnerness as well as unsavory characters un various towns along the way. it’s not surprising that the term “Wagon Train to the stars” was often used n the original pitch.

In fact, Roddenberry’s own words should shed light on this, as well as whether or not the series was categorized as “action -adventure”. from the original written pitch :

“Star Trek is a “Wagon Train” concept–built around characters who travel to worlds “similar” to our own, and meet the action-adventure-drama which becomes our stories.”

Any cross-pollination, as you accurately defined it, would have been from the simple fact that Westerns were the predominant format of Drama at the time, and if you were a writer for television or had been a writer, for television, in the decade prior to 1966, you had written for a western at some point or another.

656. Phil - April 29, 2014

Actually, we are made of carbon….

657. Riker's Mailbox - April 29, 2014

Has everyone seen Red Letter Media’s video review of Star Trek: Into Darkness? It’s very good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWLGH0VHUVs

658. Jonboc - April 29, 2014

“648. PaulB –

“#645 TUC twisted the characters to fit the political story of Nimoy and Meyer. These are well-documented issues, but here are some highlights:

“-Kirk hates the Klingons and says, “We’ve never been this close” despite having had Klingons ON THE ENTERPRISE in the STV. In STIII, even after the Klingons on Genesis kill David, Kirk doesn’t kill the one on the Bird of Prey, and he tried to avoid killing Kruge. Kirk’s entire character is changed to “hate the Klingons” despite his history.”

I think it was clear Kirk was speaking of the arm’s-reach distance between the Enterprise and the Klingon ship, not Klingons themselves. In the past, there was always a great distance between the two….for obvious reasons.

“-Uhura not only cannot speak Klingon, but she can’t even fake it well from a (sigh) printed dictionary. (That whole scene made ALL of the involved characters look like idiots.) She is made to look grossly incompetent just to force the story along.”

She isn’t Hoshi…and this was before Zoe….up to that point I dont recall Uhura ever having a history of being a linguistics expert. If the translator is broken, don’t expect her to know another language ( unless it’s Swahili!) But, I agree, then books were stupid.

-Chekov is too stupid to know that alien crewmembers have alien feet?!?! (If you don’t know the scene I’m referring to, you don’t know TUC well enough to defend it). And the WORST part of Chekov is his “Unalienable human rights” comment. Seriously!? How frakkin’ stupid were Nimoy and Meyer that they put such idiotic words into Chekov’s mouth? He’s a Starfleet officer with DECADES of deep-space experience, so that comment was–again–shoved into his mouth ONLY to make the producers’ political points.”

Chekov was always being used for humor in TOS and the prior films and little else. Nothing new here, you shouldn’t be so surprised. The “unalienable rights” was just a device to move the conversation.

“-Spock…sigh…Spock is too stupid to know that Kirk will be upset about being sent to the Klingons, whom TUC’s Kirk loathes beyond belief. So, Spock not only volunteers Kirk for a mission that Kirk would never go for, but he doesn’t even know Kirk!”

Spock also knows that Kirk is smart enough, and reasonable enough, to see the logic that, he truly is the best candidate for the job…if it is to work. It’s a small sacrifice for the long-term good. Spock clearly underestimated Kirk’s feelings…but in the end Kirk did do it, to the best of his ability, just as Spock knew he would.

Sorry, these characters were all very familiar to me, and I’m a die-hard TOS junkie from way back.

659. Jonboc - April 29, 2014

Just one other bit of info, that really illustrates the fact that TOS, like Bad Robot’s Trek, was, and should be, regarded as action-adventure. Also, note the second “rule” which TNG and its spin-offs broke repearedly until we were numb…straying, yet again, from the foundation TOS had established.

These points are from the original series writer’s guide. (Big thanks to Vultan for the link to the PDF, I have a copy, but God only knows where it’s buried)

YES, THE STAR TREK FORMAT IS ACTUALLY THAT SIMPLE. IF YOU’RE
A TV PROFESSIONAL, YOU ALREADY KNOW THE FOLLOWING SEVEN RULES:

I. Build your episode on an action-adventure frame- work. We must reach out, hold and entertain
a mass audience of some 20.,000,000 people or we simply don’t stay on the air.

II. Tell your story about people, not about science
and gadgetry. Joe Friday doesn’t stop to explain the mechanics of his .38 before he uses it; Kildare never did a monologue about the theory of anes- thetics; Matt Dillon never identifies and dis- cusses the breed of his horse before he rides
off on it.

…and please, Bob Orci….if you’re reading this…your first 2 films were great, please remember this friendly reminder about technobabble, from TOS itself, and how it eats up valuable story time and alienates an audience! Don’t fall back into that 24th century trap!

660. I am not Herbert - April 29, 2014

…and carbon (and all other matter) is made of what…? light (and love) =)

661. I am not Herbert - April 29, 2014

“wagon train” is what was sold to the network brass…

…what we got, was something more.. MUCH, MUCH MORE! =D

anyone who sez different DOES NOT KNOW REAL STAR TREK.

Star Trek is for thinking, caring people. nu-trek is for sleep-walkers… =(

662. I am not Herbert - April 29, 2014

“techno-babble” only alienates nu-trek dummies…

I AM a “tech geek”…

just like Scotty, I LOVE Trek-Tech!!!

give me some REAL PHYSICS and some BELIEVABLE TECH/Technicians!!!

PLEASE!!!

663. Mad Mann - April 29, 2014

@660. Well….I guess you could say that. Matter and energy are just different forms of the same thing, and light is a form of energy, so I guess you could say we are made of light. But you could also easily say we are made up of thermal energy, kinetic energy, potential energy, or any other type of energy. But the change of matter into energy does not work that directly, there are several steps go from “light” to “human.”

I think it’s more accurate AND more poetic to say “we are made of stardust.” Cuz, well, we are. All elements past hydrogen were only ever created in the cores of stars. The elements that make us up such as carbon and oxygen come from stars.

664. I am not Herbert - April 29, 2014

re: story similarities: ALL stories are the same: “The Hero’s Journey”

http://www.amazon.com/Thousand-Faces-Collected-Joseph-Campbell/dp/1577315936/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1398789586&sr=1-1&keywords=the+hero+with+a+thousand+faces

boborci: PLEASE READ THIS BOOK!

history is cyclical… we will repeat it for eternity, until we learn…

665. Phil - April 29, 2014

So, real fake tech is better then fake fake tech??

Someone needs their isolinear chip chips inverted….

666. I am not Herbert - April 29, 2014

“Cuz, well, we are.” can’t argue with that! LOL! =D

but I commend your thoughtfulness… ;-)

LL&P

667. TUP - April 29, 2014

Couple of quick points:

– Star Trek V is good Trek. The movie had issues but some of the very best character moments were in that film. It just had poor timing (the crew really aged from IV and were in that “god they are old” stage before becoming “respected elder statesmen” in VI)

– VI is very enjoyable and allows one to overlook a few of the issues (like the Uhura Klingon scene which was likely the worst). If Im making that movie, Im giving a few lines to non-regulars to keep them from looking stupid while keeping the story moving, but from the standpoint of justyfing salaries and inclusion, they assigned some secondary lines to regulars. So be it. And as experienced as Chekov was, he was ALWAYS portrayed as rather dense.

668. I am not Herbert - April 29, 2014

tech which is BELIEVABLE is what I want!

nu-trek is LAUGHABLY FAKE!! =(

I will not be sucked into your stupid battle of semantics… ‘nuf said?

669. Phil - April 29, 2014

@668. I’m not the one lambasting one type of fake tech, and singing the praises of the other type of fake tech. It’s all fake, and if whatever value you get from the show is based on the portrayal of fake technology, well, it should all be enjoyable. TOS had salt shakers and boxes with flashing lights on them – great for the day, but as it’s been pointed out before, the production team didn’t want to get to bogged down in explaining how stuff worked. That wisdom was borne out, as Trek embraced technobabble, the franchise did get bogged down….

670. I am not Herbert - April 29, 2014

you a TRUE nu-trekker! (it’s all FANTASY to you) =(

leave Star Trek to people who love SCIENCE FICTION, please!

jar-jar abrams is making something you might like… =P

671. Phil - April 29, 2014

It’s ALL Trek, not new, or old. It amazes me that something most fans should be in agreement on can be so divisive. But then, I’m not the one making this an ‘us vs. them’ argument – you are. I would not care so much except you can’t seem to express yourself in anything other then short sentence fragments….

So, enjoy whatever it is that attracted you, just stop attacking those who can accept that it’s possible to enjoy the franchise as a whole, and not just it’s parts.

672. Silvereyes - April 29, 2014

661 Herbert

“Star Trek is for thinking, caring people. nu-trek is for sleep-walkers… =(”

So I take it you like nu-trek then. There’s nothing in your posts that make me think you’re either thinking or caring…

Never read such obscene drivel in my life. And quit it with the moronic emoticons!

673. Phil - April 29, 2014

I have no issues discussing the various things we all debate about Trek, but Trek, what it is, is for everyone. Trek does discuss responsibility, how freedom allows the individual to grow and develop…and most of all show a vision of a future where getting past the dogmas that tend to bring out the worst in us is beneficial. It’s not something that can be forced on people, but has to grow organically, understanding that, today, I will treat others the way I’d want to be treated.

This ‘us vs. them’ mentality is about as anti-Trek as anything I can think of.

674. PaulB - April 29, 2014

#658 I’ve been a diehard TOS Trekkie since the early 1970s, so like you, I am very familiar with those character. We just disagree about how TUC showed them. I don’t think the TUC characters are consistent with TOS, nor with the previous movies.

Oh well. Let’s not drag this into an ongoing rehash of TUC debates. Let’s look forward–

–to STID Part Two: Khan Strikes Back!

675. Ahmed - April 29, 2014

Exciting SW news:

=============================

STAR WARS: EPISODE VII Cast Announced:

John Boyega, Daisy Ridley, Adam Driver, Oscar Isaac, Andy Serkis, Domhnall Gleeson, and Max von Sydow will join the original stars of the saga, Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher, Mark Hamill, Anthony Daniels, Peter Mayhew, and Kenny Baker in the new film.

http://collider.com/star-wars-episode-7-cast/

=============================

Good to see that Ford, Hamill & Fisher are back.

John Boyega was good as Moses in Joe Cornish’s “Attack the Block”, will see what he will brings to SW 7, Max von Sydow & Andy Serkis are great addition to SW saga.

676. Phil - April 29, 2014

Emperor Ming is in Star Wars!!

677. Disinvited - April 29, 2014

#655. Jonboc – April 29, 2014

A wagon train ferries essentially colonists to new territories and then disbands as the mission is accomplished and a new one is formed, The Enterprise wasn’t that kind of a ship. In the first series I don’t recall it actually showing it transported a group of colonists anywhere. There were a few episodes that intimated it performed this function but not a lot of screen time devoted to actually doing it.

The Enterprise was a militarily styled vessel (it had torpedoes and big guns) with missions. Trek was closer to the military dramas of the era than a wagon train which only occasionally might run across a canon if it were lucky. TWELVE O’CLOCK HIGH, or even MCHALE’S NAVY in the various and sundry non-battle uses that the PT 73 was put to by its commander. And there was a thread of humor that ran through Trek too. Our family were faithful watchers of WAGON TRAIN as it first aired and I don’t recall any laughs, at least not the memorable well done kind that you never forget.

So 50s TV Western style influences, yes. WAGON TRAIN TO THE STARS? No.

And it didn’t just have that singular genre influencing it. Roddenberry had real military experience and wrote for the military dramas of the era as well. And Trek was influenced by that as well as THE TWILIGHT ZONE and THE OUTER LIMITS I previously mentioned.

#670. I am not Herbert – April 29, 2014

Treknobabble isn’t a part of it’s tech design wonderfulness. It is the equivalent of poor SF writers trying to inappropriately apply the science-fiction dictum : “Any society’s science that is light years ahead from that of a more primitive society, is indistinguishable from magic to the primitives.” to therefore justify that they can use made up “magical” words to resolve any corner they write theirselves into.

The reason its use is inappropriate in Trek’s SF is:

1. Star Trek is not set far enough in the future of its audience for the “magic” dictum to be appropriate.

2. Making up stuff up out of wholecloth is poor SF as it is only by luck that it might happen to be based on a science not yet known. And good SF tries to forward project what is currently known. This is not to say that it absolutely must not be used; only that if it is needed, it is best used sparsely and sparingly as in: if your fiction constantly has recourse to it you are writing in the wrong genre and should transition to fantasy.

678. Cygnus-X1 - April 29, 2014

667. TUP – April 29, 2014

-VI is very enjoyable and allows one to overlook a few of the issues (like the Uhura Klingon scene which was likely the worst).

I agree with you that STVI was very enjoyable and the character issues raised are relatively minor. They certainly don’t get in the way of its story or theme. The plot is well constructed and its theme, while not having quite the dramatic impact of the more personalized thematic treatment in TWOK, is still meaningful and relevant (certainly relevant relative to its time, 1991).

The TOS movies regularly used the characters acting a bit out of character for the purpose of humor. That was just the style of those movies. When Kirk gets beamed away from his attackers on Rurapenthe just in the nick of time, narrowly escaping death by the slimmest of margins, the first words out of his mouth are a complaint to Spock for whisking him away before he could hear the enemy reveal their secret plan. This reaction by Kirk is clearly meant as a bit of light-hearted comic relief after the tense fighting and near-death scene on Rurapenthe. A Kirk not playing for laughs at that moment would have been quite sober and a good deal more grateful in his reaction.

I’m not sure what the issue is with the Uhura struggling with Klingon-speak scene, however. I’m not saying it’s a great scene or that it even makes sense for her to be reading Klingon responses in real-time out of a book. But, while she was always the communications officer, I don’t recall her ever being an expert linguist in TOS or in previous TOS movies. So, what’s the issue there? That she’s supposed to speak fluent Klingon? How is Uhura out of character in that scene?

679. Admiral_Bumblebee - April 29, 2014

Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher, Mark Hamill, Anthony Daniels, Peter Mayhew and Kenny Baker have all been officially confirmed for Star Wars Episode 7!!! Oh my god, this will be the best movie ever, all legends return!

Now if only Paramount would have the guts to bring back the old Star Trek cast, too…

680. Disinvited - April 29, 2014

#675. Ahmed – April 29, 2014

So let’s see that’s a year and 8mos lead time from announce cast to release.

So as each month passes for us from this point forward without a release date, that’s another month in 2016 that the next Trek can’t be released in that anniversary year.

681. Phil - April 29, 2014

@679. Well, in the case of Kelly and Doohan, it’s more like it’ll take a miracle to bring them back…

I’d of been open to them recasting Luke, Leia, and Han. Anyone could play the Wookie and the robots. I’m a bit concerned that this new story could be asking more of the senior citizens then they are capable of delivering…Carrie Fisher is the youngster there, at 57, and she’s been a wreck for years.

682. Disinvited - April 29, 2014

#678. Cygnus-X1 – April 29, 2014

I won’t deny TUC is well structured tale which I attribute to Meyer.

But unabashed bigotry played with laughs might have worked in ALL IN THE FAMILY, but for me, not so much here.

And for it not to address how Kirk transitioned from the man who wouldn’t kill Maltz (sp?) after his son’s death in III to the one that wants to let him die in VI is a weakness that took me out of the movie when I first saw it.

683. Phil - April 29, 2014

@679. Well, for Paramount, it’s not so much guts but a miracle that would be needed to bring Doohan and Kelly back.

Speaking of senior citizens, I’m getting uneasy that the old timers may not be able to deliver for the upcoming Star Wars. What tossed around originally seems to have evolved into another grand adventures for the old timers. Not to sure this is the best for the Star Wars universe, either.

684. Phil - April 29, 2014

@680. Not sure it’s an apples to apples comparison. We know the cast is coming back for Trek 3, unless Ms. Saldana’s commitments to GOTG and A2 force a recast. Outside that, all you need is a bad guy or two, and if Khan and Carol are back, it shouldn’t take 20 months for them to figure it out.

685. Disinvited - April 29, 2014

#681. Phil – April 29, 2014

Tell that to Betty White.

For me the issue isn’t their ages but whether they’ve conquered their personal demons enough to do a good job.

Fisher and Hamill’s body types are similar still so that we can still buy them as siblings but I wonder how the screenplay is going to make an account of them as seasoned practitioners of the ways of the Force?

686. Disinvited - April 29, 2014

#683. Phil – April 29, 2014

Miracle? Nah…they just need that CGI transpostioner the Walker films will employ and DEAD MEN DON’T WEAR PLAID caliber editors.

687. Ahmed - April 29, 2014

@684. Phil

“Outside that, all you need is a bad guy or two, and if Khan and Carol are back, it shouldn’t take 20 months for them to figure it out.”

Star Trek Revenge of Khan Part II !!!

688. Disinvited - April 29, 2014

#684. Phil – April 29, 2014

I don’t know about that. and I’m still wondering what the NYTimes ALL MOVIES source meant by Orci working with Del Toro on STID? Was he rewriting script pages on the spot trying to sell Benicio on signing up?

689. Keachick (Rose) - April 29, 2014

I was the one who first posted on this thread (and way, way back when?) that TUC had the main characters behave out of character and PaulB’s explanation is the same as mine. Oh, and btw, I have NEVER read or heard any of the other complaints saying similar written anywhere. I worked it out for myself. FACT/TRUTH

This is the main reason why I do not want Nicholas Meyer anywhere near Star Trek and I am not so fussed with Leonard Nimoy either after what they did with the beloved and respected TOS characters in that movie.

It annoyed me that the events depicted in Star Trek V that affected Kirk emotionally, in a more positive way, with his actually being helped by Klingons and then meeting and entertaining them later on the Enterprise, were completely overlooked when it came to writing the Kirk character in TUC. I read that William Shatner was not happy with aspects of the TUC script. Too right – no kidding!
We also see Spock speaking for Kirk, not just once but twice, as if suddenly Kirk didn’t have a voice of his own.

What happened here is what I would define as bad writing. These TOS characters were crapped on in a way that no other film has done.

DISGRACEFUL!!! Meyer and Nimoy should be holding their heads in shame but instead…Ugh…:( There – I’ve said it!

690. Phil - April 29, 2014

@685. Betty White’s in Star Wars now, too!! Hot in Space Cleveland, yoo hoo!!

Trek got away with using the TOS actors for a while because, with the exception of an occasional Kirk fist fight, the roles were not really asking to much physically from the actors. Not so now in Star Wars – Vader and Kenobi dueling in the Death Star hanger, where they were basically waving their light sabers at each other, that’s done. Jedi and Sith are combat gymnasts now, leaping through the air, defying gravity and executing Olympic caliber tumbling routines. I don’t care how much CGI you apply, but a 61 year old Mark Hamill, who bears more of a resemblance to Homer Simpson the Luke Skywalker, is just going to look silly trying to nail a backflip. People can’t help themselves…there will be snickering.

691. Phil - April 29, 2014

I stand corrected. Big guy Jedi will be fabulous….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeosdcWazos

692. Keachick (Rose) - April 29, 2014

Yes, I think that heavier/fat people could do gymnastics. It is not just a matter of weight, but co-ordination and muscle strength. Bigger people can have as much of those as a slimmer person. All require training.

693. Disinvited - April 29, 2014

#690. Phil – April 29, 2014

Imply what you will but I think Betty could give that CGI Yoda the battle of his life.

I agree about concerns regarding the demanding stunts. Where we part is you thinking it just goes with the territory of their being older.

I just saw a 90yo Julie Newmar hawking her book on beauty and she’d put the lot of them to shame in being able to portray a credible Jedi master.

694. I am not Herbert - April 29, 2014

nu-trek will never have “techno-babble”… so fear not! ;-)

but real Star Trek MUST have intelligence, or it FAILS!

please don’t fear/hate technology or the associated “big words”? ;-)

perhaps we need subtitles for the “technically challenged”…? =P

Or do you want more of “punch it!” and “red matter”, d’uh, drool….. =P

i don’t want to “fight”, but I will stand up for what is good and right! =D

Phil: I will try to ignore your posts if you will do the same… ok? ;-)

LL&P

695. I am not Herbert - April 29, 2014

heavier/fat people could do gymnastics: John Belushi samurai / jedi ;-)

696. Phil - April 29, 2014

@690. I’d pay money just to see that….I’m sure Emperor Ming has a few tricks up his sleeve, too.

697. Phil - April 29, 2014

@694. So, you want me to ignore my posts, too? Strange that you speak of intelligence, yet you bombard this site with fake news and junk science links.

And trust me, this has never, ever risen to the level of a fight.

698. Disinvited - April 29, 2014

#692. Keachick (Rose) – April 29, 2014

“All require training.” – Keachick (Rose)

Exactly. But I do confess to having doubts that either Hamill or Fisher woulld commit to it.

699. boborci - April 29, 2014

Good luck to JJ and everyone at Bad Robot! Live long and prosper;)

700. crazydaystrom - April 29, 2014

690. Phil

Christopher Lee’s Count Dooku was involved in quite an exciting lightsaber duel in one off the SW movies and he was older that Hamill, Fisher or even Ford are now.

701. crazydaystrom - April 29, 2014

Of course with my post 700 I was indicating what cgi effects can do these day. As we all know.

702. Disinvited - April 29, 2014

#699. boborci – April 29, 2014

You might want to clarify that. By not ending it with the SW method of well wishing you make it sound like you are pulling a Craig Ferguson.

Although, I must confess admiration for how you are keeping Trek foremost in the media. LLAP.

703. crazydaystrom - April 29, 2014

Hey boborci. Tell us about this Star Trek movie you’re working on. Will it be released in 2016?

704. Phil - April 29, 2014

@698. Well, yes and no. American football players are really big, and pretty quick for their size, and they train endlessly during their playing years. The problem is that level of agility takes a horrible physical toll, it’s not uncommon for guys who are out of the game five or ten years, who haven’t hit 50 yet, to have destroyed their knees, spine, or be crippled by arthritis.
You also don’t get proportional results on training, bulking up doesn’t translate into substantially higher leaps or longer tumbles. You won’t see a gymnast bulk up 40 pounds, because you’ll get minimal returns on performance, and expend a considerable amount more of energy to propel that body that weighs 40 pounds more through the same floor exercise. Granted, stuntmen are doing all the heavy work, regardless, but a some point you just have to ask yourself, does this look ridiculous?

Hamill also sustained some injuries in that bike wreck, as I recall, so he’s going to see limited action regardless.

705. Mike Barnett - April 29, 2014

699. boborci

Yes, good luck to them! It was awesome to see the cast photo. Can’t wait to enjoy Star Wars AND my favorite franchise, Star Trek in the next few years.

706. Mike Barnett - April 29, 2014

699. boborci

Will the JJ trademark ‘cone of silence’ be used again in ST3?

707. Ahmed - April 29, 2014

@ 699. boborci – April 29, 2014

“Good luck to JJ and everyone at Bad Robot! Live long and prosper;)”

May the Force be with them :-)

708. Ahmed - April 29, 2014

@ 705. Mike Barnett – April 29, 2014

“It was awesome to see the cast photo.”

Yep, I’m really excited for this, it is like 1997 all over again :)

709. Phil - April 29, 2014

@700. Yes, he did. And the man understood his limitations, deferring to the stuntmen for the long shots. This is a good illustration of the point, Lee still had some skills and abilities to pull off the shots at that age. If any given individual has lost that ability, the moviemakers can probably compensate for it, but only to a point. I also recall that Yoda, to that point, had always been portrayed as the ancient Jedi master, hobbling around on his cane. Until those Jedi endorphins kick in, and he starts flying through the air, having turned himself into a little green can of whoop-ass. There was some snickering in the audience when that happened, too. you always run a risk when you screw with continuity like that.

710. crazydaystrom - April 29, 2014

709. Phil
Phil I’m confident if Luke Skywalker has to display Jedi abilities, including stunning lightsaber prowess, JJ and his team will be more than able to convincingly depict it.

I’m excited about this movie.

711. Ahmed - April 29, 2014

Since Abrams hired Ford, Hamill & Fisher, then he believes that their ages will not be an issue.

I’ve complete faith that Abrams will do his best to make one of the most amazing Star Wars movies ever made.

712. Phil - April 29, 2014

@710. While I still believe a convincing argument could have been made to recast the characters, at this point it is what it is, and I’d wish them luck on the production. We will see how it turns out.

713. Dunsel Report - April 29, 2014

#682. Disinvited:
Those are great points about TUC. As much as I love Nicholas Meyer, the cartoonish racism took me out of the movie, too. And an astute observation about how the Kirk of III, who is awesome enough to forgive and also kick ass, seems bigger than the Kirk of VI, who just hates Klingons like a grumpy old man.

Yes, Kirk had shades of this when he was the cold warrior from “Errand of Mercy,” but I never liked this interpretation of him. It played into a revisionist view of Kirk, that he was never the thinking-man’s captain and just liked babes and fighting. That’s what gets us the Kirk of STID.

714. Disinvited - April 29, 2014

# 689. Keachick (Rose) – April 29, 2014

” I read that William Shatner was not happy with aspects of the TUC script.” – Keachick (Rose)

From my message now numbered 179 in this chain:

“Not everything else went as smoothly for him [Meyer] with Shatner, who called the screenplay [for TWoK] — rewritten by Meyer, who didn’t get a credit — a disaster.”

So at least he was consistent.

715. BillyBoy - April 29, 2014

@ 468.

“I think this separation between Paramount and CBS is ultimately to blame here. With one studio not working well with the other, the franchise is being torn and distorted.”

Totally disagree. Paramount Pictures originally set a release date of June 29, 2012 for the release of Star Trek Into Darkness, and the movie was delayed for a year precisely because the “Supreme Court” over at Bad Robot were focused on other projects and didn’t have a script ready.

Again, I think Orci & Co. have only “proven they’re committed to Star Trek” in an alternate reality like the one they created for the last movie. Over in this reality, their actions showed the opposite.

716. Disinvited - April 29, 2014

#715. BillyBoy – April 29, 2014

That’s a fair supposition, but it should be remembered that the earlier film’s 2008 release delay had absolutely nothing to do with BR as it was in the can and ready. That one was all on Paramount who still could have played a role [such as rejecting a script] in your, supposition as well.

717. Dswynne - April 29, 2014

@I Am Not Herbert: Could you not be vulgar in your rhetoric? It’s beneath a REAL Trekker…unless you are a Trekkie.

718. Marja - April 29, 2014

679 Cygnus, I’m not sure what the issue is with the Uhura struggling with Klingon-speak scene, however. I’m not saying it’s a great scene or that it even makes sense for her to be reading Klingon responses in real-time out of a book. But, while she was always the communications officer, I don’t recall her ever being an expert linguist in TOS or in previous TOS movies. So, what’s the issue there? That she’s supposed to speak fluent Klingon? How is Uhura out of character in that scene?

She was played for laughs – I found that offensive. I would have found it a much better scene for her to be working with the Universal Translator [a technology that had been established as far back as TOS] and perhaps having some difficulties translating that particular Klingon dialect [language translation errors in themselves can be funny, look at JFK saying “Ich bin ein Berliner” which to Germans means “I am a pastry”]. There could have been some minor delays but nothing so ridiculous as what was depicted. And honestly, Klingon from books? When, as far back as TOS, they had minitapes/disks/whatever?

It was groan-worthy.

But the bigotry displayed toward the Klingons pissed me off, as a former military person, you don’t do that, if you’re an officer in the company of other officers in uniform. It is taboo while in uniform, as it reflects poorly on the service. Thus, to me, it reflected poorly on my dear fictional Starfleet officers, whom I would have thought had been trained in tolerance/understanding of other cultures.

People pull that off, in the privacy of their quarters or the club, but never in official duty capacity in the presence of their senior officers — senior officers would not tolerate that talk, generally not even in off-duty circumstances. [Though I have not had wartime, hazardous duty in-country experience, so I bow to those who have who might say differently.]

719. Disinvited - April 29, 2014

#718. Marja – April 29, 2014

This all reminds me that PIONEERS OF TELEVISION: BREAKING BARRIERS is on PBS tonight.

720. Ahmed - April 29, 2014

Bad news for ‘Almost Human’ fans.

=============================

Fox Cancels ‘Almost Human’

The Karl Urban-Michael Ealy sci-fi drama will not return for a sophomore season.

The futuristic Karl Urban-Michael Ealy sci-fi drama, which got off to a promising start with its late November debut, will not be returning for a sophomore season.

Almost Human, which hails from J.J. Abrams and Fringe’s J.H. Wyman, took place in 2048, when Los Angeles Police Department officers are partnered with human-like androids. Minka Kelly, Lili Taylor, Makenzie Crook and Michael Irby rounded out the cast.

Almost Human launched to a strong 9.2 million viewers and a 3.1 rating in the adults 18-49 demogrpahic in live-plus-same day following a special Sunday launch, before settling into its Monday perch with a weaker showing (6.8 million, 2.3). Though ratings dropped as the season progressed, the March finale averaged 5.63 million viewers and a 1.5 rating, on par with fellow Monday drama The Following. (The Following, which just wrapped its season, has since been renewed for a third.)

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/fox-cancels-almost-human-700015

=============================

Sci-Fi series showrunners should stay away from Fox, that network is a graveyard for Sci-Fi.

721. DarExc - April 29, 2014

Good luck boborci, keep the nods to the other series going and you’ve got my vote!

722. Jonboc - April 29, 2014

#718. “But the bigotry displayed toward the Klingons pissed me off…”

But it’s supposed to make you uneasy. It’s ugly now, in real life…it was ugly 50 years ago, and it will be ugly 200 years from now… but it will never be gone. Also, precedent was set in the original series. Despite Kirk’s exchange with Mister Styles concerning bigotry, it was ever present throughout the series. Mostly with Spock in the receiving end, but there was no love lost between the Enterprise crew and the Klingons. Kirk exhibits quite a distaste for them when is trying to explain what kind of people they are, in Errand of Mercy. He has little use for them in Day of the Dove as well, even without the help of the creature.
It’s not great to see bigotry surface in TOS, but it is there.

723. I am not Herbert - April 29, 2014

re: vulgarity – I am offended by nu-trek and it’s sycophantic defenders…

I regret offending anyone (unintentionally), but it’s hard not to express how I feel about this… passion, i guess… i’m sure some will understand… shrug

plus… i just call ‘em like i see ‘em… ;-)

LL&P

724. I am not Herbert - April 29, 2014

Marja: EXCELLENT perspective on behavior in uniform. 10-Q ;-)

725. Cygnus-X1 - April 29, 2014

682. Disinvited – April 29, 2014

And for it not to address how Kirk transitioned from the man who wouldn’t kill Maltz (sp?) after his son’s death in III to the one that wants to let him die in VI is a weakness that took me out of the movie when I first saw it.

I’m not sure who “Maltz” is, but I see your point.

I suppose we’re meant to assume that Kirk has grown more bitter in the intervening years. Still, it’s not all that much of a stretch, but the continuity issue of Kirk’s resentment from III to VI could have been explained with a few sentences.

726. Adolescent Nightmare - April 29, 2014

Of course boborci deserves it. He has put up with fans for years.

727. Cygnus-X1 - April 29, 2014

718. Marja – April 29, 2014

She was played for laughs – I found that offensive.

Chekov was played for laughs, too, when he didn’t realize that the alien crew-member had different feet. Did you find that offensive?

728. Disinvited - April 29, 2014

#725. Cygnus-X1 – April 29, 2014

“I’m not sure who “Maltz” is…” – Cygnus-X1

The last Klingon standing. The one played by John Laroquette who beamed Kirk and Spock up from the surface after a hearty “Toe E chew” into the Klingon communicator and Kirk threatened to kill if he wouldn’t help them. Then I think he asked Kirk when he would get around to killing him after he refused to help remarking something along the lines of “I deserve to die.” and Kirk said “I lied.” in reply. That guy.

729. Disinvited - April 29, 2014

#725. Cygnus-X1 – April 29, 2014

What do you know? I got it right.

From the imdb for THE SEARCH FOR SPOCK:

John Larroquette … Maltz
.

#727. Cygnus-X1 – April 29, 2014

“Chekov was played for laughs, too, when he didn’t realize that the alien crew-member had different feet. Did you find that offensive?” – Cygnus-X1

Since the Klingons in the narrative were intended as heavyhanded allegorical stand-ins for the Russians/Soviets to begin with — Hell, yes.

Since they were already taking wipes at them in the allegory, taking the only Russian character and then making him out to be a buffoon or a fool, just added insult to injury. It was uncalled for. Showed a lack of class or at least respect for the Soviets which ostensibly the tale was supposed to engender to begin with?

730. Cygnus-X1 - April 29, 2014

729. Disinvited – April 29, 2014

Yeah, you lost me on the Chekov thing.

I can understand some of the other complaints, but if you were “offended” by the attempts at humor in STVI, I think you’re reading too much into it and being too PC-uptight.

And the Klingon that Kirk refused to kill, I’m pretty sure that his name was Pete.

731. Disinvited - April 30, 2014

David Letterman:”Would you say it is possible for a bad director to make a good movie?”

Lucy Liu:”Absolutely!”

Director Lucy Liu on directing her first episode of ELEMENTARY.

732. Disinvited - April 30, 2014

#730. Cygnus-X1 – April 29, 2014

Would you at least agree that supposed purpose of ST6 was to promote that detente was a good thing worth pursuing?

And wouldn’t you agree that if you take a character who himself was created to show that in the future such rapprochement was not only possible but had been successful and you portray him as an incompetent bigotted buffoon for a laugh, that that portrayal might be at cross purposes towards your stated goal, not only with the country that the character was always meant to symbolize but in the audience’s minds which may conclude that a nation of such oafs aren’t worth the bother of that detente that you are trying to promote?

733. Keachick - April 30, 2014

In TUC,
Kirk was shown to have memory problems in that he continued having so much ill will towards any and all Klingons and saying that he had never been that close (what?), which was complete rubbish.

Dr McCoy apparently had no knowledge of basic Klingon anatomy, despite having contact at various times, just like Kirk, and not having the savvy to use his tricorder to get a knowledge of basic Klingon anatomy.

Spock got Kirk involved in a diplomatic mission which he, at first, knew nothing about and then had little taste for. Spock spoke twice for Kirk at an official meeting, first at SFHQ then at the formal dinner on the Enterprise. Spock was never shown to be so presumptuous and disrespectful in the past, but in TUC, he was.

Lt Uhura, the only original female bridge crewmember, was shown to be totally inadequate in her knowledge of the most basic Klingon language. Yet communications had gone on between the Klingons and Kirk’s Enterprise at various times during the TOS but somehow the Universal Translator and Uhura missed all of it…

Then there were the comments about Klingon table manners, as if none of these supposedly seasoned explorers knew nothing about the various mores associated with dining, even on earth. I could not believe what I was hearing. It was so pathetic.

Each of the seven main characters got dung dropped on them with some receiving a bigger pile than others.

The story etc was good, but the way these characters were treated has left a bad taste in my mouth. Given that so many Trek fans have said to the BR team that their two favourite movies are TWOK and TUC, they really should not be surprised if the BR movies appear to be combinations, character wise, of these two movies, ie getting to see Khan again and seeing the characters behave like twats. After all, aren’t these two films most people’s preferred examples of what they consider good Star Trek?

Fortunately, these two BR movies may appear similar in some ways, but they are more their own stories than any of these other films…thankfully!

734. PaulB - April 30, 2014

#733 Keachick, great job explaining TUC’s failings!

735. Mad Mann - April 30, 2014

Lol. I highly doubt that JJ reads this message board.

BTW: I like now the Klingon patrol ship from STID was referred to in the movie as a “D-5″ class and NOT called a bird-of-prey. It’s a reference to the battle cruisers labeled as a D-7 class from TOS.

I guess all the merchandise didn’t get the memo and continue to call it a bird-of-prey. I hope the merchandise for the next Trek movie is not only more movie-accurate, but also just more of it!

736. Keachick (Rose) - April 30, 2014

Two things –

1. IMDb had a homepage for Star Trek 3 (that’s the title), then it didn’t and now it does again. It seems that on the recent homepage, Alex Kurtzman’s name has been removed from the list of writers for this third movie. The writers are Roberto Orci, John D Payne and Patrick McKay – three in total.

2. Please – writers – how about talk about ablutions. We all need to go…and I do not think that is going to change. I’ve just watched one of Enterprise’s episodes and in it there was a reference to there being NO toilet on a shuttle craft and crew having to pee in a bottle. Really? Even today, there are small portable chemical or composting toilets.

It would be good to be reassured that if I were on the Enterprise or one of its shuttle crafts, I would not need to forever “hold it”…:)

737. star trackie - April 30, 2014

Keachick, toilets are there, but we don’t need to see it to know it, kind of like life support systems. I don’t need to see the machinery to know they are breathing oxygen. Although we did actually see one in the brig, in Trek V. Kirk sits on one. Where it goes, or how it’s recycled, I don’t wanna know! lol

738. PaulB - April 30, 2014

Toilets? Who needs ‘em! Just beam the waste right out of the human body and into the matter tanks for the engines. (An idea that’s been bounced around before so much, I don’t know who started it)

739. Cygnus-X1 - April 30, 2014

732. Disinvited – April 30, 2014

Yes to the first part, no to the second (I find the question to make invalid assumptions and see no connection between the events on-screen and the real-world implications that you see in them, as between fictitious Klingons and real-life ex-Soviets).

740. TrekMadeMeWonder - April 30, 2014

Toilets? They Phased them out.

741. Marja - April 30, 2014

727 Cygnus, I would if I had remembered the moment. I’ve only seen the movie twice.

742. Marja - April 30, 2014

722 jonboc, Exactly, Kirk CORRECTED Styles in no uncertain terms. In STVI our favorite seven officers [whom I would have thought more intelligent than Styles was acting], who are above the rank of LT, are displaying attitudes more often seen in green recruits. Yes, I found it realistic, but not of those characters. IMHO the writers did the characters a vast disservice.

743. I am not Herbert - April 30, 2014

16 Signs That You’re a Slave to the Matrix

http://www.wakingtimes.com/2014/04/28/16-signs-youre-slave-matrix/

my personal favorites: ;-)

You’re skeptical of any area of life that hasn’t been ‘proven’ or validated by modern science.

You’ve never questioned the popularized version of ancient history and the origins of our civilization.

You haven’t yet realized that you are a spiritual being living a human experience.

744. Marja - April 30, 2014

Keachick, Re: Ablutions … I’d rather they spent the time in conversations enhancing characters. I REALLY don’t want to hear the toilet flushing as someone exits the head and enters the Bridge. :-P

These things are seldom referred to in film. How many times have you seen a movie of characters deserted in the wild and they never dig a latrine ..? The need is unspoken.

I’d far rather see characters engaging in other activities, Uhura and Carol having coffee on the Observation Deck, McCoy and Kirk having a drink in the Captain’s Ready Room as they go off-duty, Spock and Uhura waking up in their quarters. All would afford opportunities for conversation and plot exposition.

745. Phil - April 30, 2014

@744. Yet, we did see an engineering section that strongly suggested environmental control (waste, water processing, raw materials storage, recycling, and transportation of said materials) and some people bitched to high heaven about it. It seems that for some folks, realistic future tech really is a box with flashing lights, or a wasteful consumption of energy to transport poo out of a toilet, as opposed to letting artificial gravity and a pipe do the work….

746. Keachick (Rose) - April 30, 2014

Oh goodness me – People, I was kidding around…well, mostly. Marja – I agree with your third paragraph. Please, writers – what Marja wrote – Make it so!

The fact is that going to the toilet, ie peeing in a bottle, was mentioned in an Enterprise episode and I immediately thought, “Is that for *real*? You’ve got to be kidding…”, hence my note to the writers to make sure that we can all be very certain that nobody is having to “hold it”.

As far as the need being unspoken, this reminds of an incident involving the construction of a brand new sports stadium in Dunedin, NZ. Apparently, this stadium got built – wonderful and modern with a big crowd capacity of 1000’s of people, except that when a journalist asked where the toilets were because of his urgent need, they realized there were none. I am not kidding. If only someone had spoken of this need…Oops!

747. I am not Herbert - April 30, 2014

745. Phil: conventional plumbing / waste treatment in a starship with transporters and food synthesizers is retarded… sorry… =(

(couldn’t ignore)

748. I am not Herbert - April 30, 2014

in the case of vehicles with no potty, one would have a system similar to what astronauts and military pilots use: the “piddle pack”.

‘nuf said?

749. Curious Cadet - April 30, 2014

@711. Ahmed,
“Since Abrams hired Ford, Hamill & Fisher, then he believes that their ages will not be an issue.”

Do you really think Abrams had a say in that? I don’t for a minute. We have seen but the tip of the iceberg of the internal power struggles going on over at Disney with Abrams attempts to keep from shooting the film in England, for instance. I can only imagine this is the least control he has had over any film he’s ever produced, much less directed.

Abram’s had a choice with Shatner and ultimately got his way. I’m not sure if he had a choice with Nimoy, but I’m not sure that would have been his first choice either as the Nimoy scenes slowed the movie down considerably.

750. THX-1138 - April 30, 2014

So I just merrily skipped back in here to this thread and……….

WTF are you people talking about?!?

751. Phil - April 30, 2014

@747. Go ahead, explain in complete sentences why wasting enormous amounts of energy in a closed ecosystem in space is preferable to an energy efficient system. Are you seriously suggesting that the most efficient use of power on a starship is to transport waste/base matter/raw materials from one place to another?

Replicators are not magic boxes that create stuff from nothing. Even in the 23rd century, ships will have infrastructure to allow it to support life and perform it’s functions. All that is grounded in science, not this make it up as you go bulls**t that you seem so fond of.

752. Disinvited - April 30, 2014

#739. Cygnus-X1 – April 30, 2014

In the commentary track of the 2009 DVD release of STVI they say, “The Klingons are the Russians.” and you don’t deny the Chekov character IS Russian. But you don’t see treating the one character in the narrative that is explicitly Russian disrespectfully is counter to the theme of the whole feature? It borders on giving the racism against Russians explored metaphorically the imprimatur of being just peachy keen.

http://archive.org/stream/starlog_magazine-205/205_djvu.txt

“Leonard Nimoy came up with the metaphor for Mikhail Gorbachev and perestroika, and it went from there.

‘Guess who’s coming to dinner?’ I had given that line to Uhura, which would be a little more savagely biting, but Leonard asked us to switch it to Chekov. Them being drunk at the dinner also was a clever way to approach it. It was an opportunity for me and then for Nick, who did a
really good job of polishing the scene, to make the metaphor of gunboat diplomacy and the imperialism of America clear.”” – Denny Martin Flinn, screenwriter for STAR TREK VI:the Undiscovered Country

And Nimoy did that because Nichelle refused to say it because it was racist. And again, Nimoy goes “I know let’s give that offensive racist line to the Russian character!”

“According to Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry, an article in the magazine Pravda criticized the 23rd century Star Trek adventures as not containing a Russian character (considering the USSR was ahead of the US at the time in the space race.)

With the next three films, Chekov fully transforms into a character whose only real role is comedic stooge (oh, and meat shield). In Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home (1986), Chekov runs around 1980s San Francisco asking police and passerby where they keep the “nuclear wessels”, and manages to get critically injured escaping from an aircraft carrier (an interrogator wonders aloud if he’s a retarded Ruskie.) Luckily he’s saved (again) and gets to appear even more moronic in Star Trek V: The Final Frontier (1989), where he and Sulu get lost in Yosemite (to be fair, everyone looked moronic in that film.) Finally, Chekov incorrectly attributes Cinderella as a “Russian epic,” spouts the lines “guess who’s coming to dinner,” and acts as clueless plot dump in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country (1991), although to be fair once again he does get about a minute of importance when he discovers a vital clue leading to the capture of evildoers.” – David Fuchs, Yahoo Contributor Network

And Nimoy did that because Nichelle refused to say the line because it was racist. So what thought comes to Nimoy’s mind: “I know! We’ll give that line to the Russian character!”

753. Disinvited - April 30, 2014

# 740. TrekMadeMeWonder – April 30, 2014

“Toilets? They Phased them out.” – TrekMadeMeWonder

I saw what you did there. LOL

754. I am not Herbert - April 30, 2014

751. Phil: I’d like to go back to ignoring you… but in brief:

power (on a federation starship) is not an issue. (d’uh)

and what makes you think they have room for a waste treatment plant??

what makes you think that any aspect of conventional waste treatment is more efficient than disintegration??

PLEASE stop your senseless blathering? thx ;-)

…trying harder to ignore you now =(

755. Phil - April 30, 2014

@754. Really? More magic power production capabilities?

Really, part two? So Captain Kirk takes a tinkle, and it’s immediately jettisoned into space? The ISS right now recycles all water, including whats in the space toilet.

Really, part three? Disintegration. So, basically, burn it. How 17th century tech of you.

Dude, you are really embarrassing yourself here. For all your bleating about real Trek tech, what you are suggesting doesn’t even pass muster in the 21st century. Read up on how the ISS operates, or how this proposed Mars mission will work. then come back and talk. Until then, keep posting links with fake news, that seems to be your strong suit…

756. Disinvited - April 30, 2014

#749. Curious Cadet – April 30, 2014

Now, this:

“I mean, two of the actors were in their early 70s. and Star Trek V had not gone very well at all. It [STAR TREK VI] really was a pet project of Frank Mancuso [then-head of Paramount Pictures] because he needed a tentpole picture and he had this franchise that he thought could be resurrected. So, he went to Leonard, who didn’t want to act and anyway. The point is not to argue but to make it work.” – Denny Martin Flinn, screenwriter for STAR TREK VI:the Undiscovered Country

is the first I ever heard that old Paramount ever seriously regarded any of its Trek films as a “tentpole”.

757. I am not Herbert - April 30, 2014

disintegration DOES NOT IMPLY jettisoning or burning.. jeez, stop spinning!

Star Trek technology REALLY IS magic to you! you simply can’t conceive it!

it is POINTLESS trying to educate you… you are WILLFULLY simplistic. =(

I don’t want to rile you anymore, so NOW I am ignoring you. Good Luck! =)

758. dmduncan - April 30, 2014

616. Harry Ballz – April 28, 2014

Hey, if Kirk can go from Cadet to Captain in one day, why can’t a guy go from being a screenwriter to director of a multi-million dollar movie franchise without even having directed traffic?

***

Well, I’d say the jobs of “screenwriter” and “director” are much closer together in progression than the jobs of “relatively new inexperienced senator with no preparatory managerial experience” and “President of the United States” are, but that didn’t stop people on this site from accepting the latter progression cheerfully and even voting for it.

I know some of you are now complaining about the Bob possibility as if that is the more important of the two. In other words, I know some of you are nuts.

759. Red Dead Ryan - April 30, 2014

I believe that the TNG/DS9 technical manuals made mention of various recycling systems aboard starships that break down waste material into energy, which is then stored in the replicators. Pretty sure there were pipes and tanks/containers involved, though we didn’t really see them. At least not on the Enterprise D. We saw pipes on the Defiant, original Enterprise, and Enterprise E, though. I think the waste-recycling systems were kept out out of the way, probably behind walls and bulkheads which is why we really have never seen much of it. The BR movies depict it as being much more in the open, with all of the tanks and pipes in plain view.

As for Kirk sitting on the toilet in “The Final Frontier”, that scene has become an accurate metaphor describing the quality of the movie!

760. Red Dead Ryan - April 30, 2014

#755.

Phil — “I am not Herbert” is merely a troll. Hijacking threads with nonsense is his specialty. Listening to reason and logic is not.

761. Keachick (Rose) - April 30, 2014

#754 – Disintegration is better? Stop your own blathering!

Starships are a closed environment with an ecology which is necessary if human and other similar life aboard the ships are able to survive while traversing vast expanses of space where replenishment of necessary supplies may not be so readily to hand.
Life on earth is based on the healthy recycling of material and energy. What do you think is meant to happen to our bodily wastes? Just go down on the farm to see…nature recycles what the animals give from their rear ends to help make more good pasture…

The problem is that we humans do not know what to do with all the dangerous wastes that we manage to make. There is an actual island in the Pacific Ocean made out of all plastic waste materials. We are not able to easily disintegrate what we don’t want without causing even more problems.

A sensible recycling system that deals with normal human bodily waste does make sense. Are you telling me that a futuristic starship would/should not be able to effectively do the same? We are already doing much of it now using modern sewerage treatment systems.

762. I am not Herbert - April 30, 2014

system that breaks down matter into energy = disintegrator, maybe…??

yeah, “pretty sure” there is NO CONVENTIONAL PLUMBING INVOLVED…

I can’t believe i waste my time on you pinheads… (shakes head)

GOING BACK TO IGNORING (new topic please?)(matrix?)(light?)(??)

…no, let’s defend nu-trek plumbing =(

763. I am not Herbert - April 30, 2014

Rose (since i like you): In Star Trek, WE CAN “disintegrate” cleanly, don’tcha think?? ;-)

“a futuristic starship” is NOT limited to what YOU think is possible in the future, LET ALONE the present!

don’t be so SMALL-MINDED! =(

764. THX-1138 - April 30, 2014

Really, the convo has dwindled to the point where it’s centered around how the crew “handles” their fekking dumps?

This site may not be dead but it’s sure difficult to find a pulse.

765. crazydaystrom - April 30, 2014

744. Marja
“I REALLY don’t want to hear the toilet flushing as someone exits the head and enters the Bridge.”

I really don’t either Marja but I have to admit were that to happen I would LOL! Then I would immediately be angry with myself AND the filmmakers.

746. Keachick (Rose)
A modern sports arena that size with zero toilets!?! Haha! I do enjoy toilet humor but that’s not funny! And yet it is. And hard to believe! Stranger things have happened, though.

766. crazydaystrom - April 30, 2014

763. THX-1138 – April 30, 2014
“Really, the convo has dwindled to the point where it’s centered around how the crew “handles” their fekking dumps?
This site may not be dead but it’s sure difficult to find a pulse.”

Yeah it’s gone to the toilets THX. I blame Orci!

No. I blame Obama!

No…Oprah!

Any and everybody whose name begins with ‘O’!

767. Keachick (Rose) - April 30, 2014

Hey, quit with the insults!

What do you mean by “disintegrate” and why? Do you mean “transmute” as in “change in form, nature, or substance”? or energy and raw material rearranged? Nature does that now and has always done so. No doubt future technology could (further) speed up various natural processes but this also requires a certain amount of time and space depending…

If so, say so!

Stop using phrase bytes, insulting words and emoticons directed at people who don’t get your silly phrase bytes.

768. Keachick (Rose) - April 30, 2014

#764 – Why be angry?

769. Vultan - April 30, 2014

#758

Um, I haven’t read every single post here, I admit, but yours is the first one I’ve seen to inject the POTUS in the conversation. Really has nothing to do with the article. I mean, come on, introduce any straw man you like, it still doesn’t change the fact your guy is an unproven director who wants to direct a big budget (presumably summer) movie. The cadet-to-captain comparison is apt.

Maybe if Orci did a short film… or a stint in the Senate, then we could talk. ;-)

770. Ahmed - April 30, 2014

@768. Vultan

“it still doesn’t change the fact your guy is an unproven director who wants to direct a big budget (presumably summer) movie. The cadet-to-captain comparison is apt.”

Nu-Trek fanboys are more than happy to overlook the most basic requirement of the job.

But again, perhaps ST 13 budget is so low that even a gaffer could do it, so why not ? :-)

771. Keachick (Rose) - April 30, 2014

What is POTUS?

772. Ahmed - April 30, 2014

@ 770. Keachick (Rose) – April 30, 2014

“What is POTUS?”

The President of the United States.

You should watch the HBO show Veep :-)

Veep is The Vice President of the United States.

773. Ahmed - April 30, 2014

Veep: Season 1 – Trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUnAbwaDYr0

774. Vultan - April 30, 2014

#769

Ha, a gaffer indeed. We shall see. If Orci had at least one film as director behind him (like Nick Meyer did with Time After Time or Kurtzman has already done), it wouldn’t be much of an issue.

#770

President of the United States

775. I am not Herbert - April 30, 2014

…sorry to be hard on you guys… ;-(

i can be a d*ck sometimes… when i get frustrated…

i’ve been getting screwed by the material wold… and I took it out on you…

sorry… ;-(

776. crazydaystrom - April 30, 2014

767. Keachick (Rose)
“#764 – Why be angry?”

Angry with the filmmakers for injecting ‘low’ humor into Star Trek. Angry with myself for being amused with humor of that level in a Trek project. My Star Trek is middle to high brow, thank you very much. :-)

777. Cygnus-X1 - April 30, 2014

752. Disinvited – April 30, 2014

But you don’t see treating the one character in the narrative that is explicitly Russian disrespectfully is counter to the theme of the whole feature? It borders on giving the racism against Russians explored metaphorically the imprimatur of being just peachy keen.

Dude, are you Russian or something?

Honestly, I think you’ve gone way off the reservation with this.

Firstly, giving Walter Konig the comic-relief or us-vs-them lines is not indicative of any sort of stereotyping/disparagement of Russians in the real world. And secondly, I didn’t find any of it disrespectful to the Chekov character. He’s there. He’s got to be given something to say. His character on TOS was not very developed. It’s not as though that character has a rigid ethos that the writing must conform to. He was a 3rd Season character who was barely developed. His lines in the TOS movies aren’t negatively stereotypical of Russians and they’re not disrespectful to the character or to Russians!

Seriously, is THIS really a problem for you???

778. Disinvited - April 30, 2014

#768. Vultan – April 30, 2014

Well there’s no accounting for the accuracy of this reporting from the last half of 2013:

http://www.expertcomics.com/enr/tag/roberto-orci/

http://multiversitycomics.com/news/venom-sinister-six-expanding-spider-man-film-universe/

But apparently someone in the comics industry believes Roberto Orci has directed either the trailer to ENDER’S GAME or ghost directed the film proper and that he’s slated to direct VENOM.

779. dmduncan - April 30, 2014

769. Vultan – April 30, 2014

No, what I did is to make a comparison to a shift between job status that is much more serious, and yet which I am know many fans here were not only comfortable with, but actually helped to accomplish and yet are untroubled by next to this news of Bob directing a Trek movie.

There’s no Straw Man, but there’s a satirical point regarding Trek fan priorities somewhere in there.

Who cares what experience the guy I vote for has to run the country–BOB MIGHT DIRECT A TREK MOVIE HAVING NO EXPERIENCE!!!!

Well…I do not CARE that Bob has no directing experience. And maybe that’s because I know what it is to make a film which, by several people’s estimates seems to mean I am qualified to direct the next Trek movie.

So am I hired Bob? Do put in the word for me at Paramount. I meet several Trek fans’ standards for the director gig, whereas you do not (maybe you should try running for president instead–less outrage and fewer complaints that way).

780. Cygnus-X1 - April 30, 2014

741. Marja – April 30, 2014

727 Cygnus, I would if I had remembered the moment. I’ve only seen the movie twice.

What could you possibly find offensive about that?!?

With all of my complaints, I assumed that I was the picky and strict one here, but JEEEEZ!!

Seriously, if you’re offended by Chekov’s oversight regarding the feet of the alien crew-member in STVI, you really need to lighten up! I mean, for crying out loud, it’s it’s just….

781. Disinvited - April 30, 2014

#768. Vultan – April 30, 2014

Finally found something more credible. According to the 411mania on the Fringe: The Complete First Season DVD Review:

“Robert Orci’s Production Diary is a twelve minute feature on the pilot directed by Orci. He compares the two-hour pilot to shooting a full movie with all the big sets and effects and interviews the actors on set preparing for it all. It touches on the weather as at the time, Toronto had some pretty short days that made filming difficult and wasn’t helped by the temperature being twenty below zero. Orci comes off pretty genial through his ordeals, saying he hopes the show does well so he can talk more on the DVD, which happened.”
 
Read more at http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/116614#tcv5Ixl3mGpcqd10.99

This seems to confirm it:

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/dvd/reviews/article_1499970.php/Fringe-The-Complete-First-Season-%E2%80%93-Blu-ray-Review-CLIPS-ADDED

“Disc five has 13 minutes of Robert Orci’s production diaries…”

782. Keachick - April 30, 2014

#770 Ahmed – “Nu-Trek fanboys are more than happy to overlook the most basic requirement of the job.”

Are you unable to make an argument without making inaccurate references to other people’s opinions and thereby putting them down in the process?

I assume that these “nu-Trek fanboys” include me, Marja, Phil… Most of the people who have been cautiously supportive of the idea have not overlooked anything. We have noted our awareness that Bob Orci does not have much of any actual directing experience, which is one of the reasons the word “cautious” is used. In an earlier post on this thread, I set out both the pros and the cons – the con being Bob Orci’s inexperience, which is a big drawback. Nobody has denied that his inexperience can and does pose a problem. However, there are other more mitigating factors in his favour which cannot and should not be overlooked either.

783. Ahmed - April 30, 2014

@781. Disinvited

““Robert Orci’s Production Diary is a twelve minute feature on the pilot directed by Orci.”

That is incorrect, the Fringe pilot was directed by Alex Graves, not Bob. Whoever wrote that article didn’t check their info before publishing or even watch the video.

Here is the actual “Robert Orci’s Production Diary” video from Youtube

Fringe – Roberto Orci’s Production Diary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D2TivZ5arg

Bob was following the production of Fringe pilot from shooting to editing, not actually directing the pilot.

784. Disinvited - April 30, 2014

#777. Cygnus-X1 – April 30, 2014

No my concerns are from growing up in the jim crow South and seeing racism first hand. If an entertainment is going to take this on using humor it is best to tread lightly on an actual icon of the target of it in your art where you are employing metaphors to shine a spotlight on the people the icon was always meant to stand-in for.

And it is not just the single “Chekov is a foolish blowhard, as everybody knows all Russians are” scene that I object to per se but the whole approach taken towards this purposely created Russian icon in a feature with a supposed lets attack racism against Russians facet to its theme.

And giving him a line that was too racist for an actress who actually experienced racism to say, on top of it is what makes it offensive in aggregate. It smacks of a cavalier attitude towards racism which I object to. And hints that “Yeah we said we were going to attack seriously racism but we really only used that as an excuse so that we could take advantage of it to shock and titillate and besides, making fun of the Russians/Soviets is just too hilarious to ever think of backing off on, for any reason.

I get it. You think I’m being too PC. Fine. Nevertheless making fun of Trek’s resident Russian icon, Chekov on the one hand, while supposedly attacking racism against said Russians in its metaphors on the other, went a bridge too far for me.

It reflects on other aspects of the lack of deftness in its humor overall where it smacks of a lack of sensitivity to the subject being broached. And that’s what I found objectionable about this anti-stated-theme current running through ST6 .

And that is my answer to your question “Did you find that offensive?”

785. Cygnus-X1 - April 30, 2014

784. Disinvited – April 30, 2014

Sorry, I just don’t see it.

I think that you are making assumptions which are simply unfounded.

Sometimes a man saying a line is just a man saying a line. And in the scenes in question, Walter Konig as Chekov was just a man saying a line. The ethnic background of his character had no bearing upon that bit of dialogue. And neither for Uhura. She was just a character saying a line for the purpose of moving the story along and supplying a bit of comic relief at that moment. The character’s ethnic background had no bearing upon that particular line, and I see no evidence to the contrary…for Uhura or for Chekov.

786. Disinvited - May 1, 2014

#783. Ahmed – April 30, 2014

You need to reread what I quoted. It doesn’t say he direct the pilot. It says he directed the 12 minute “Production Diaries” short feature on the pilot.

But I can understand why you got your hopes up. ;-)

787. Marja - May 1, 2014

772 Ahmed, actually the Vice Pres is VPOTUS, but that’s the Secret Service designation. Like the First Lady is FLOTUS :-)

780, Cygnus, well, see? We’re all picky about different things. Way I see it, there are about 430 people on the Enterprise. Seems to me Chekov would have met them in a ship-wide muster upon reporting for duty at the beginning of the cruise, as it were. That’s just me tho’. Plus it was probably a big emergency, so people may not have had even a nodding acquaintance with each other. Honestly I don’t remember. So much Trek, so little time ….

Re SPACE TOILETS Rose, I would think that by that time … since they have transporter [molecular] technology, there would be a way to break down all wastes — not just bodily wastes, wastewater, food scraps, torn uniforms [thank you, Captain Kirk], old Scotch bottles [thank you, Mr Scott] and so on — into basic carbon. Or something. At any rate, reduced to the very basic structure and completely recyclable. To be used in the Replicators for food, phasers and other fun.

788. Disinvited - May 1, 2014

Look let’s just say I get why Nichelle objected to the line and the books and you don’t. And these weren’t the only things to which she objected. The script also would have had her character ask “Would you let your daughter marry one?”

The other problem I believe we are having is in our approaches. You are focusing on isolated micro-moments as comedic set pieces almost to the point of taking them out of the context of the rest of the script and I am focusing on the macro undercurrent of at least an insensitive attitude revealed in aggregate therein.

I’ve said it before: Denny Martin Flinn is no Norman Lear in his comedic take on racism, and neither is Nicholas Meyer for that matter.

And others were offended, as well, Brock Peters, William Shatner, and Gene Roddenberry all had objections to the script’s approach to racism.

Anyway, I was addressing my first seeing it. I suspect that “Guess who’s coming to dinner?”’s attempted humor is lost on the present generation anyway. It was never destined to be a timeless classic gag to begin with.

And I can’t deny these things from which the attempted humor is drawn still hold their sting for me as a child of the 50s and 60s. But I still don’t feel out of line asserting that its attempt to navigate humor through racist waters could have (and should have) been done better.

789. Disinvited - May 1, 2014

#783. Ahmed – April 30, 2014

Well, I only got to see 4 minutes before I got some error that I can’t refresh out of.

Still, what I saw is encouraging.

790. Oscar - May 1, 2014

The amazing Spider-Man 2 (screenplayer Roberto Orci) destroyed by the critics with the worst score ever in a Spider-Man film. Top critics crashed the film. According critics, screenplayers are the main guilties. Orci says is a huge fan of Spider-Man, Star Trek or El Zorro, but he destroyed el zorro, spider man and star trek with bad and cartoonish writing. Orci without Abrams is nothing.
If he is the head honcho of STAR TREK 2016? ,the film will be a major disaster.

791. Jacky - May 1, 2014

Can this ****** stop ruining films. Spiderman 2 written by Orci, is a complete disaster in writing. Please, can we not kill Star Trek just yet. Fire him from hollywood already.

792. Oscar - May 1, 2014

782.
Mitigating factors? Seriously?
No directing experience. Mediocre screenplayer. Bad main producer…(again , Orci followers should consult Orci’s score in rottentomatoes.) Most of the critics dislike him. And a lot of trekkers dislike him. After Star trek into the mess, maybe a vast majority…
Mitigating factors? Nope. Aggravating factors.
You know there are better scrrenplayers, better directors, and better producers than Orci. You do know. Star Trek deserves the best in its annyversary film. Orci it is NOT. My point: Nu trekkers are not star trek fans but Abrams, Orci Kutzman fans , that is why they want Orci to direct star trek 2016. No matter Star Trek.
My dream team: director Frakes. Producer: Moore. Screenplayers David Mack and Kirsten Beyer, Star Trek best seller authors.Huge fans, Very talented people.

793. Jeyl - May 1, 2014

Alright Bob. Try to sell it to me. I’m not going to immediately jump into an argument on why you shouldn’t be the director because, well, I don’t know what kind of a director you might turn out to be. I just want to hear it from you. If Steven Spielberg can go in front of the camera as a Transformers fan and tell the whole world that Michael Bay was born to direct a Transformers movie, can you at least tell us on this one site why you want to direct the next Star Trek movie?

Unlike the last two movies, you’re going to have to deal with more issues that fall directly on your shoulders should you be selected for the job. It’s easy to excuse faults of the previous movies as being somebody else’s idea (Damon Lindelof for insisting on Khan, JJ Abrams on showing Carol Marcus half naked for no reason, Alex Kurtzman for wanting the having the Enterprise be underwater), but you’re the one who’s going to decide what stays in and what gets cut.

So, with that much power and control, what do you want to do with Star Trek, and why are you the best person for the job?

794. star trackie - May 1, 2014

#791 “My dream team: director Frakes.”

That hack? One paint by numbers Trek movie, and a summer hit at the flop-office with Thunderbirds that sent him back to where he belongs, directing episodic TV on the boob tube! Sorry, Oscar,your opinions remain just that.

795. dswynne - May 1, 2014

@PaulB: I understand your concerns, concerning TUC, but it did make sense that Kirk had some reservations on how to Klingon matter. After all, Kirk lost a son, his ship and his command because of Kruge, who was a completely evil character that had no problem killing his own men if it didn’t advance his agenda. To me, that’s understandable. However, by the end of the film, Kirk had came to the realization that he was better than that, and for the sake of his son David (as indicated by his speech to Azetbur), he was willing to take a chance. He also realized what would happen if he remained the same, as indicated by the conspiracy that was forming all around him. So, I’m not going to complain about the direction of the film’s plot. Though, in hindsight, this sort of film should have been released as STV, as a sort of a progression of the story arc.

796. Disinvited - May 1, 2014

#790. Oscar – May 1, 2014

Not according to David Poland who never had much use for K&O’s writing:

http://moviecitynews.com/2014/04/review-the-amazing-spider-man-2-spoiler-free/

“Neither my expectations nor my standards were lowered.

The Amazing Spider-Man 2 is a piece of quality filmmaking with actual attention to consistent coherent (and emotionally coherent) storytelling.” – David Poland

797. Curious Cadet - May 1, 2014

@795 Disinvited …
“Not according to David Poland”

Oh, here we go again … that’s one critic.

According to Rotten Tomatoes, the film currently has a 58% rating with all critics and 38% with top critics.

And I think this review from The Detroit News sums it up with specific relevance to STID: “At times the movie takes on a light, nearly silly attitude; at others, it’s all heavy mystery or life and death; and then when the action scenes hit, it’s mainly the equivalent of visual screeching.”

The LasVegas Weekly draws even more eerie comparisons: “Manages to be just as forgettable as its predecessor, with a poorly paced story built around two lackluster villains and an underserved central love story.”

And this one’s pretty familiar too: “Even at a hefty 142 minutes, The Amazing Spider-Man 2 hasn’t the time for its surfeit of plot, nor for the sprawling ensemble of supporting characters caught in the sticky web Webb weaves.”

The LA Times: “The bond between Spidey and the fearful and fleeing masses, which should be emotional and strong, has lost its personal touch.”

And on and on … “An undercooked cinematic casserole that blends some genuinely touching moments and well-presented action sequences with bad melodrama, overlong exposition, and overexposed CGI.” “There are too many explosions, too many blaring sonic effects, too many break-ups-and-make-ups, too many villains. And not enough heart.” “A tonal mess that suggests the filmmakers were never quite sure exactly what they wanted from the movie.” “Noisy action and a jumbled plot make this Spidey flick a tangled web, but Stone and DeHaan are appealing.” “The narrative doesn’t want for ambition, but Marc Webb proves unwilling, or incapable, of making this unwieldy story feel like anything but a deluge of backstory.” “Spider-Man is back, bigger and slightly better – but only slightly, and with too much emphasis on “bigger,” in the form of hollow, boring franchise screenwriting cliches.”, “The chaotic story doesn’t have much juice or spirit …”, ”
The stars lack sparkle, the story is rote and workmanlike and the action unexciting.”,

And keep in mind these are all first paragraph quotes.

Doesn’t look like Orci has changed his M.O. much at all … nor that we can expect anything different in the next Trek. I mean, why change a formula that’s making studios billions of dollars worldwide? Orci doesn’t owe anything to Trek, much less us, he owes everything he has become to the studio system.

798. Oscar - May 1, 2014

795
Rottentomatoes.com 58% not fresh. 71 fresh 52 rotten. Only top critics 10 fresh 16 rotten.
Metacritic. 54.
Most of the critics say thanks to Webb amazing Spider-Man 2 is not an absolute garbage. The main guilty is a botched plot. Botched Plot is Orci second name.
Surely, Sony thought Orci was a good choice…but right now amazing Spider-Man II has the worst score in a spidey film ever. New Orci Récord. And they said Spider-Man 3 was not a good film…ok, the film will earn a lot of money, but with a mediocre standing. Orci has destroyed El Zorro, star trek, cowboys and aliens, Ender and now Spider man.

799. Phil - May 1, 2014

@790-791. Actually, it just seems to be you that has a rather intense dislike for the man. Even the regular critics of Bad Robots effort with Trek at least acknowledge they have revitalized the franchise.

If you live by the Rotten Tomatoes site, you also die by it. Your choice for director has been treated rather badly by the site as well.

oopsie….

800. Disinvited - May 1, 2014

# 791. Oscar – May 1, 2014

“No directing experience.” – Oscar

He apparently directed the FRINGE Production short, “Roberto Orci’s Production Diary”

801. Mad Mann - May 1, 2014

How can you base the criticism of a movie solely on the screenwriters? It takes 100s of people to make a movie, but I would think the director should get most of the blame (or credit) for the quality of a movie. So, Amazing Spidey 2’s poor critiques can be blamed on Webb, not Orci.

That said, I still think that Orci is a good choice for director for the next Trek. Remember: he was initially against having Khan in STiD, but gave in to Lindelof. Orci was also the one that wanted to show Kirk really earning his captaincy in STiD. While I disagree with some of his choices (med bay?), I think he is the right man to really show Star Trek in it’s most true form and spirit. Listen to his podcast sometime.

802. I am not Herbert - May 1, 2014

…yeah, not looking good for ASM2 =P

MUST AGREE with Oscar: “Nu trekkers are not star trek fans but Abrams, Orci Kutzman fans , that is why they want Orci to direct star trek 2016. No matter Star Trek.”

apparently ASM2 feels just like STID: let’s just get this over with… =(

Sony is the new Fox for hiring this crew… =(

803. Spock's Bangs - May 1, 2014

Those that can make films, do. Those that can’t, critique . Critics don’t know shit. Never have.

FACT!

804. Disinvited - May 1, 2014

#796. Curious Cadet – May 1, 2014

Thanks for putting that together.

805. I am not Herbert - May 1, 2014

no, Webb saved what he could of ASM2, in spite of boborci… =(

also Emma Stone is charming & attractive… ;-)

806. Who cares - May 1, 2014

@801. So according to you since I like the two Bad Robot Trek movies I am not a real Trek fan despite the fact that I have been watching Trek since 1977. You know I seem to remember Anthony saying that it was a bannable offense to claim someone is not a real Trek fan just because they disagree with you.

807. Elias Javalis - May 1, 2014

I am about to Start reading the IDW issues. From Khitomer Accords onwards.
Interesting is, the Five year mission may offer some Star Trek 3 insights. Does anybody else reading them?

808. THX-1138 - May 1, 2014

#768

Who says I’m angry? It’s more like bemusement at the silly depths (HA!) that constitute engaging conversation ’round these parts. I’d say the anger seems to be coming from the doody contingent. Anyway, we can all just let that sh*t slide.

809. Oscar - May 1, 2014

802.
I’m not Sherlock Holmes. But it is a elemental thing. If you are a true trekker, you want the best director, producer , screenwriter and actors for your old dear star trek. But if you say «ok, Orci is not the best choice. And yes ,there are billions of better choices. But no matter, I want Orci to direct, to produce and to write ST», you are not a trek fan, but a Orci groupie. And Orci wants Orci fans, not ST fans. He insulted true fans no long ago.

According to IMDB, Roberto Orci will be Spider-Man 2016 producer and screenwriter….
He wants to direct, produce and write Star Trek 2016 , too.
Umm, Monday, Tuesday,Wednesday and Thursday Spider-Man and week ends STAR TREK?
Or maybe he will say, «sorry, Sony, I do not want to work in Spider-Man any more, I prefer Star Trek…?

810. I am not Herbert - May 1, 2014

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/30/1295890/-The-American-people-hate-Republicans-we-just-need-them-to-vote?detail=email#

811. Mike Barnett - May 1, 2014

Oscar and I am not Herbert:

Don’t you dare tell me I’m NOT a Star Trek fan just because I enjoy nuTrek. I’ve been watching every Trek TV show since September 1966….and every movie since December 7 1979. I shed a tear in 2005 when Enterprise had it’s last episode because I knew the franchise was dead. Then Abrams, Orci and Kurtzman revived the franchise by giving it a much needed update for today’s audiences. I like most of oldTrek but in order for nuTrek to survive, it’ll need to be an action movie in theaters. I think Trek fans will be happy when Paramount/CBS brings it back to TV in the next few years. I know it will happen. I believe Bob Orci would make a great show runner for Trek-TV….or perhaps Ronald Moore. Make it so CBS/Paramount!

812. Bart - May 1, 2014

#97 LOVE THE SHIP IN EVERY SHOT

That’s the BEST advice ever. I really liked both movies, but hate the way JJ treated the Enterprise. Not a bit of grace in her movements. Bob or whomever the next director is, PLEASE go back and re-watch TMP or TWOK and film her properly. Give the Lady the respect she deserves, PLEASE.

813. Phil - May 1, 2014

@796. Funny thing is, if you just go looking for reviews of ASM2, it’s really easy to find reviews from critics who ABSOLUTELY LOVED IT, too.

The reality is, it’s getting mixed reviews. As a lot of the BR whiners seem to be cherry picking Rotten Tomatoes to level criticisms at Roberto Orci, ASM2 seems to be falling into that mid-range of critical review that so many other SUCCESSFUL movies have also found themselves. It’ll make a ton of money regardless, and Sony seems to like the franchise, so there’s a lot going for it, barring a flame out at the box office.

814. Curious Cadet - May 1, 2014

@801. Mad Mann,
“How can you base the criticism of a movie solely on the screenwriters? It takes 100s of people to make a movie, but I would think the director should get most of the blame (or credit) for the quality of a movie. So, Amazing Spidey 2′s poor critiques can be blamed on Webb, not Orci.”

I don’t know to whom you are addressing your comment, but whether or not you agree with Rotten Tomatoes (and like anything I take it with a grain of salt), you can’t ignore the SPECIFIC CRITICISMS of the STORY and WRITING. I’m not sure anyone here is blaming Orci solely for Spiderman’s poor reviews (and if they are that’s wrong), but he most definitinely has contributed to them.

In general yes, I agree with you that the director is where the ‘buck stops’. However, there is a specific reason why they have separate categories at the Oscars for Best Screenplay, Best Director, and Best Film (Producer), and moreover, it is a very rare occurrence that a film will win all three. The respective contributions can absolutely be weighed separately, and criticized. A good director can try to fix a bad script, and a good producer can try to fix a bad movie. And Orci was two-thirds of that equation in Spiderman.

Now he wants to oversee all three aspects. Food for thought.

815. Ahmed - May 1, 2014

Some of the early reactions to The Amazing Spider-Man 2:

@Direlogue

“Amazing Spider-Man 2 was almost amazing. Far too much Avengers style world building and tone is all over the place but still V good”

@olilyttelton

“AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 2: Terrible. Not so much a movie as a bunch of scenes, almost none of which are any good.”

@chrisblohm

“Aww man. Absolutely gutted about Amazing Spider-Man 2. Such a mess.”

@GregCATaylor

“THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 2, unexpectedly, is a humdinger of a film. Thrilling, funny, touching & intriguing-definitely holds pace throughout.”

@JamesHunt

“It’s like Michael Bay and Joel Schumacher directed a Spider-Man film based on a child’s explanation of the character.”

@emmdib

“Amazing Spider-Man 2 is tonally all over the place and bungles some key beats, but it’s hard to dislike a movie so goofily open-hearted.”

816. Disinvited - May 1, 2014

#801. I am not Herbert – May 1, 2014

Well, how does this disrupt your attempts to pigeonhole the various wavelengths that are the wide spectrum that are people?:

I though the 2009 was fine as a well-made B-movie that JJ references here:

http://variety.com/2009/film/news/abrams-keeps-it-all-in-the-fan-family-1118010053/

”Abrams describes his biggest inspirations as B-movies that were treated like A-pictures, such as “Jaws” and “Planet of the Apes.” He and his confederates have mastered this realm, expanding the appeal of what would once be considered geeky genre fare to mainstream auds.” –

But, I found it lacking…wanting as a STAR TREK. It is my estimation that we are meant to forgive it much because it is regarded as an “origin” flick. But I nether needed nor wanted such a stripped back motion picture STAR TREK, a retrograde Trek if you will, in my 5th decade of engaging with it. Canon? I like the game but there was so much time travel allowed by old Paramount prior that it became difficult to see how there could ever be just one. And I could never figure out how everybody seemed to be happy turning its arbitration over to some old Paramount sycophant executive – let alone a new Paramount suit. But I digress.

I don’t intend to reignite a debate about all the things that don’t set well with me about their 2009 effort, only to communicate to you that I was glad when the theater’s projector broke down during the film’s coda as it meant that I got my money back.

Now enter STID and I have, yet again a different view than the norm. I found it as a B-movie to be a bit of a mess. Probably due to:

“Cinematically, this generational movement is kind of like hip-hop. Entertainment exploded when we were kids. We all became students of film and TV because we were so saturated with it. Now our (work) is kind of like hip-hop where we’re sampling things we all know and love.” – Roberto Orci

But as a STAR TREK, contrary to my expectations, I found it to have a faint, barely discernible pulse. Certainly not the best of Trek, but I recognized previously lacking elements struggling to emerge from it, something Bob assured me in our previous “discussions” about 2009’s Trek that he knew what I was talking about and that he’d restore in the sequel. Now, my praise is equally faint and in that respect could be regarded as condemning, but I choose optimism. I’ve experienced the Wrath of Bob so I know he’s passionate and I think I’d like to see what could come of it being funneled into constructing the next Trek. Besides, I have little faith that new Paramount is committing sufficient resources to attract a name director as they should be. I hope I am wrong in that but I doubt that I am. And so, I say let the man have his shoot – at least the after film conversation will be full of spirit, if he somehow manages to not infuse the picture with it.

817. Phil - May 1, 2014

Once upon a time labeling people as true or fake fans was a bannable offense….and most of us understand the ‘us vs. then’ mentality is juvenile and divisive. Not very Trek-like at all. Between that and spamming the site with fake news links, you all should consider yourself fortunate to have this forum, instead of attacking people.

818. Curious Cadet - May 1, 2014

@813. Phil,
“As a lot of the BR whiners seem to be cherry picking Rotten Tomatoes”

And a lot of the BR boot-lickers seem to cherry pick Rotten Tomatoes to support Orci.

What a surprise.

Both are valid, in as much as Rotten Tomatoes is valid.

I will say that I have read more positive reviews so far that criticize aspects of the script while praising other aspects of the movie. But it’s all subjective and proves nothing in the end.

To the extent you are using this as an endorsement of Orci’s efforts towards the next Trek movie, I can’t say I’m exactly excited at the prospect of the next Trek fall solidly into the “SUCESSFUL” critical mid-range that makes a “ton of money regardless”.

819. I am not Herbert - May 1, 2014

you just proved Oscar’s point – Disinvited (boborcifan) =(

820. I am not Herbert - May 1, 2014

bottom line: boborci makes A LOT of money for the studios…

he will continue to get movies… ARTISTRY DOESN’T MATTER =(

I should just realize that nu-trek IS NOT STAR TREK =(

and that I should DISAVOW IT, and any site that shills for it… =(

STAR TREK IS DEAD. All we’ve got now, are sweet, sweet memories… =)

I’ve got better things to do with my time and money… ;-)

821. Ahmed - May 1, 2014

Despite the mixed reviews & early reactions from moviegoers, ASM is making a LOT of money worldwide

=================================

Box-Office Preview: ‘Amazing Spider-Man 2′ Launches Summer With Expected $95 Million-Plus Debut

Sony’s sequel reteams director Marc Webb with stars Andrew Garfield and Emma Stone, and has already earned nearly $150 million overseas, where it began rolling out two weeks ago.

Superhero tentpole The Amazing Spider-Man 2 is looking to cast a strong web as it swings into North American theaters this weekend, officially kicking off the all-important summer box-office season, when Hollywood studios flood the market with big-budget spectacles.

Prerelease tracking suggests the Sony movie will surpass the recent $95 million opening of Captain America: The Winter Soldier to score the top domestic opening of 2014. Studio insiders believe the film could be a big draw among families, boosting the bottom line.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/amazing-spider-man-2-box-700327

=================================

The bottom line looks so goooooooood :-)

822. Disinvited - May 1, 2014

#819. I am not Herbert – May 1, 2014

If so, definitely not one that’s been uncritical of his works.

823. Oscar - May 1, 2014

811.
For you is update…for a lot of people is pure anti trek, star trek only in name, GIjoe in soul. More brawn than brain. More brawn than brain is not star trek formula. Not TOS formula and NOT TNG formula. So, stop revisionism.
Anyway, this is not the topic. The topic is :Orci to direct Star Trek 2016? And I say if you know he is NOT the best choice, but you want him to be the director…it is obvious you are more Orci fan than star trek fan because a true fan wants the best for star trek.
Levar Burton is a better choice than Orci. And he would be the first star trek african american director. Star trek needs its own Spike Lee .
Levar deserves his chance more than Orci. Star Trek deserves an african american director in his annyversary film. True star soul.

Levar for Star Trek 2016 annyversary film director
Yes, he can.

824. Phil - May 1, 2014

@818. A boot licker? For simply agreeing that the man’s resume is substantial enough TO WARRENT CONSIDERATION for the directors job? I’m still waiting for the whiners to make a persuasive argument against that isn’t built on the fabrication that the guy fell off a tour bus and got the job.

Assuming he gets the gig (and that’s a big ‘if’ at this point), he could end up creating the greatest movie ever, and you’d still find something to bitch about. The guy hasn’t even landed the flippin job yet, and the whiners have already labeled the flick a disaster – that speaks for itself that bitterness has surpassed reason at this point.

825. Phil - May 1, 2014

@820 Don’t let the door hit you on the ass on the way out…

826. Phil - May 1, 2014

@823. Careful, your inner Donald Sterling is showing…

827. Oscar - May 1, 2014

821.
Come on, Ahmed, money is not the point , the point is the the breathtaking creative bankruptcy of Orci writings. Spider-Man is a very important and popular character, more than cap. He can earn money with Donald Dick as screenwriter…the best moment in amazing Spider man 2 is taken from comics. It is not an original Orci idea…worst moments and plot holes, yes, are a brand mark…

828. Mike Barnett - May 1, 2014

811 Oscar

“it is obvious you are more Orci fan than star trek fan because a true fan wants the best for star trek.”

I wish I could tell you off but I don’t want to get banned from this site. You don’t know me so stop labeling me.

Just go away with your buddy – ‘I am Not Herbert”.

829. star trackie - May 1, 2014

#809 Oscar “But no matter, I want Orci to direct, to produce and to write ST», you are not a trek fan, but a Orci groupie. And Orci wants Orci fans, not ST fans. He insulted true fans no long ago. ”

In the immortal words of Colonel Potter, “Horse Hockey!” lol
Wow, with that last rambling mess,Oscar, old friend, now I’m beginning to think you’re just putting us on.

830. Ahmed - May 1, 2014

@827. Oscar

The fact is that Bob is the perfect blockbuster screenwriter. Even when he co-writes crappy scripts (Transformers, STID), his movies still make money, a lot of it.

95% Star Trek $257.7M
87% Star Trek Into Darkness $228.8M
70% Mission: Impossible III $133.4M
57% Transformers $319.0M
56% The Amazing Spider-Man 2 NA
44% Cowboys & Aliens $100.2M
40% The Island $35.8M
26% The Legend of Zorro $45.4M
20% Transformers 2 $402.1M

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/celebrity/roberto_orci/

831. Matt Wright - May 1, 2014

Back open, keep the thread decent please…

832. Phil - May 1, 2014

@831. I don’t know, it’s teetering on the edge…

833. Ahmed - May 1, 2014

============================
Fantastic Four Director Tim Story Explains How Summer Movies Go Wrong

Tim Story was an up-and-coming director, with a hit movie (Barbershop) under his belt. And then he directed two Fantastic Four movies that nobody really liked. Now that he’s back on top with Ride-Along, Story is explaining what he learned from his two superhero films.

“With those types of big movies, you’re directing three movies. There’s the movie you’re shooting, there’s the second-unit action stuff, and there’s the visual effects movie. You’ve got to learn how to deal with all of them…

The other thing I learned from those two Fantastic Four movies, is that sometimes you can be too lax on how much control you give to the visual effects team, or the production design team, or whoever. If you end up in situations and you’re not happy with certain things, it’s because you didn’t stay on top of them”

http://io9.com/fantastic-four-director-tim-story-explains-how-summer-m-1570436471

============================

834. I am not Herbert - May 1, 2014

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/missing-jet/missing-jet-recordings-may-have-been-edited-experts-n94941

835. I am not Herbert - May 1, 2014

833. Ahmed: YEP. FF had HUGE potential. very disappointing…

…but glad he learned from it! =)

this is probably what happened to nu-trek… JJ was not “on top of it…”

(actually, i recommend the extended version of the first FF movie) ;-)

836. dmduncan - May 1, 2014

793. Jeyl – May 1, 2014

Jeyl, that’s an intelligent, well measured post.

837. Curious Cadet - May 1, 2014

@833. Ahmed,

Re: Tim Story,

Well clearly he had too much experience going into producing those big budget movies, and got lazy. That won’t happen to a first time director who’s only ever watched others make those mistakes, and who will otherwise be laser focused on every detail of making the film, leaving nothing to chance. ;-)

838. Phil - May 1, 2014

@793. Yeah, I wouldn’t mind hearing that. Doesn’t have to be a lengthy, point by point description, just a mission statement, if you will, and that JJ has his back.

Also pleased to see that I’m not the only one who’s noticed that Bob has a tendency to deflect when confronted with some perceived failure within one of his projects…..Wasn’t my fault won’t cut it as director. JJ does demonstrate a similar character trait, though.

839. Curious Cadet - May 1, 2014

@836. dmduncan,
“Jeyl, that’s an intelligent, well measured post.”

Except the basis for the question is wrong: @793. Jeyl “It’s easy to excuse faults of the previous movies as being somebody else’s idea”

It’s this premise Orci has flatly denied from the beginning. He has consistently said that every decision made in the movie was approved and signed off on by all of them.

Orci has never excused any of the faults of the previous movies (admitted or otherwise) on anyone else. He has always accepted responsibility for every decision as if he had the original idea himself.

He’s been plenty evasive in responding, and his explanations inconsistent, but he’s always fully accepted responsibility for any criticism levied against him, and stands by the decisions in solidarity with the group.

…unless I missed something to the contrary, but that’s how I’ve seen it.

More likely if his directorial efforts failed, he would stand behind his decisions and blame it on the audience not being smart enough.

840. dmduncan - May 1, 2014

839. Curious Cadet – May 1, 2014

Well…it’s true that Bob never broke ranks, but it seems to me that what Jeyl is asking is reasonable. If Bob were granting an interview at this moment where things stand, these would be good questions to ask him. Which things stand in sharp contrast to the usual things I remember Jeyl for saying to Bob.

Jeyl @ 793:

“Alright Bob. Try to sell it to me. I’m not going to immediately jump into an argument on why you shouldn’t be the director because, well, I don’t know what kind of a director you might turn out to be. I just want to hear it from you. If Steven Spielberg can go in front of the camera as a Transformers fan and tell the whole world that Michael Bay was born to direct a Transformers movie, can you at least tell us on this one site why you want to direct the next Star Trek movie?”

“So, with that much power and control, what do you want to do with Star Trek, and why are you the best person for the job?”

841. dmduncan - May 1, 2014

If I had to chance a guess, I would say that Bob is the best person for the job because the only folks who have (or would have) been willing to say yes to the directing gig on this next movie so far, were all hired guns with no deep affection or understanding of the material, and Bob cares too much about it to let that happen.

That’s if I had to chance a GUESS.

842. dmduncan - May 1, 2014

It’s a big thing for Bob and Alex to decide to part ways. We’re not talking about that angle much, but it’s a big deal. So I think why did that happen? And the answer I come back with is that it probably happened for the same reason that people typically part ways in their relationships.

They each want their own identity and to go where they feel pulled, and where they feel pulled is in different directions.

The vibe I get is that Bob really discovered his voice on ST.09, and it’s been getting louder and louder ever since.

That may not be the only reason behind the end of the partnership, but I’d be surprised if it wasn’t a factor.

843. Ahmed - May 1, 2014

@ 841. dmduncan – May 1, 2014

Bob was in charge of the search for ST 3 director, perhaps he thought that he could do better than the ones that he interviewed!

844. Ahmed - May 1, 2014

@842. dmduncan

They will continue working together on their TV projects.

845. Cygnus-X1 - May 1, 2014

838. Phil – May 1, 2014
Also pleased to see that I’m not the only one who’s noticed that Bob has a tendency to deflect when confronted with some perceived failure within one of his projects…..Wasn’t my fault won’t cut it as director.

Well, this is certainly true.

There’s no point arguing with Orci about his writing. He just doesn’t get why anyone should have any complaints. Seeing him defending his writing leaves one with the impression that he believes that has arrived at perfection in his craft which simply cannot be improved upon. This is largely why I am not hopeful for future Orci-penned Trek product…and certainly not for an Orci-directed movie. I mean, talk about hard-headed…Paramount would be better served putting a brick wall in charge of the next project. It’d be easier to reason with in terms of creative issues.

846. Cygnus-X1 - May 1, 2014

(Hopping back over from the chat thread.)

788. Disinvited – May 1, 2014

Look let’s just say I get why Nichelle objected to the line and the books and you don’t. And these weren’t the only things to which she objected. The script also would have had her character ask “Would you let your daughter marry one?”

Well, I’ll agree with you there. I don’t get it. There seem to be two points of complaint: (1) something about racism or stereotyping; and, (2) Uhura being portrayed as a dumb woman for using the Klingon language book. I don’t get either complaint.

The other problem I believe we are having is in our approaches. You are focusing on isolated micro-moments as comedic set pieces almost to the point of taking them out of the context of the rest of the script and I am focusing on the macro undercurrent of at least an insensitive attitude revealed in aggregate therein.

I’m doing both. As individual bits, I can find nothing offensive about them. And neither can I find anything offensive in the whole role-reversal idea of having the crew utter quips historically associated with bigotry in real life. The whole point is to turn the tables and challenge the audience by having the protagonists behave questionably with regard to those whom we usually regard as the enemy.

Perhaps you could spell out very simply what offends you about this approach. And the Chekov thing with the alien crew-member’s feet…that appears to be a third, unrelated category of offensiveness. I don’t even know how to begin to approach that one.

847. star trackie - May 2, 2014

Bob doesn’t need to tell us why he wants to direct. He doesn’t need to audition in front of a handful of armchair quarterbacks, and even if he did, it would be a waste of his time because they same 3 or 4 constant whiners would not change their opinion. They never will, until Frakes is back in the chair or Picard is back sipping tea again. And since we all know (except for those few disgruntled fans who demand Bob explain himself) that those scenarios will never pan out, blasting Orci and moaning on and on about Bad Robot and nu-Trek is their newest hobby and they aren’t ever going to change.
Bob doesn’t need our approval, and at this stage in Trekmovie’s deterioration, he probably doesn’t even care what the 10, or so, people who seem to frequent this board, think. If I were him, I wouldn’t even bother coming here any more. DEspite my 2 or 3 visits a week, I often wonder why, myself. Tho, I gotta say, with MJ and his many personalities gone, when I do drop in, the debates are lots more civil and interesting to read. Rant over, whine on, peoples!

848. Phil - May 2, 2014

@845. Well, this is where we part company. Orci does get it, understanding that debating publically creative decisions with a bunch of armchair producers is pretty much an endless waste of time. Those debates do happen, frequently, and with the people who matter – studio executives, financers, production company executives, and the like. So, we have his public persona, which is some chatter about things he has a personal stake in, and his ‘no comment’ persona, when it come to work. The guy chooses not to debate his work in the court of public opinion, and based on some of the rather childish commentary I’ve seen here, I don’t blame him.

849. Mike Barnett - May 2, 2014

848 Phil
I agree with you. I wonder if Hollywood in general advises its high profile actors, producers, writers, etc. to keep the public at arms length when it comes to interacting with us on social media such as this comment thread.

850. star trackie - May 2, 2014

#848 “The guy chooses not to debate his work in the court of public opinion, and based on some of the rather childish commentary I’ve seen here, I don’t blame him.”

Well said!

851. Ahmed - May 2, 2014

@848. Phil

“The guy chooses not to debate his work in the court of public opinion”

Then he should stays away from all forums.

“and based on some of the rather childish commentary I’ve seen here, I don’t blame him.”

Of course, you don’t. You are here only to defend & praise & never criticize. That is the role of a loyal & good fan, unlike the armchair producers!!!

852. Ahmed - May 2, 2014

@ 847. star trackie – May 2, 2014

“Bob doesn’t need to tell us why he wants to direct. He doesn’t need to audition in front of a handful of armchair quarterbacks, and even if he did, it would be a waste of his time because they same 3 or 4 constant whiners would not change their opinion.”

“Tho, I gotta say, with MJ and his many personalities gone, when I do drop in, the debates are lots more civil and interesting to read. Rant over, whine on, peoples!”

Well, given that you have similar attitude & sounds a lot like one of his personalities , don’t see why you are happy that he is not here anymore.

853. Ahmed - May 2, 2014

An interesting comment about The Amazing Spider-Man 2 that reminds me of STID:

“Honestly, I thought the pacing was dreadful. Action scene, someone crying. Action scene, someone crying. All the action scenes were blocked for the benefit of 3D or a stupid videogame. Characters using three lines of dialogue to say something that only needed one. “We can’t be together even though we love each other” tropes are my pet peeve.”

854. Mad Mann - May 2, 2014

People keep on bashing TUC, and rightfully so. BUT I want to just say that I rewatched Star Trek III TSFS last night, and I forgot how much I really like it. A lot. I don’t get why people sometimes place it lower on their favorites list. To me, it’s my 2nd favorite Trek film behind TWOK. The best thing about TSFS was that it was Kirk that really drove the story in that film. You can have the world or universe-saving stories from current movies, but I love the more intimate, character-driven plots from Star Trek. Admiral Kirk risking his career, life, and ship on the slim chance to save his friend. I also love all the homages to TOS in the third film. The Vulcan ritual at the end has similar items to the one from Amok Time.

Eh, to each their own, I guess.

855. I am not Herbert - May 2, 2014

…I like the first three best, and TUC ;-)

856. I am not Herbert - May 2, 2014

…if you like STID, you will probably like 47 Ronin (I HATED IT) =(

PLEASE, let Godzilla be good!!! =D

857. J - May 2, 2014

Is everyone forgetting that ST13 is supposed to mark the franchise’s 50-th anniversary and deserves better than a novice writing team and a novice director? I mean: jeez.

858. Ahmed - May 2, 2014

@ 856. I am not Herbert – May 2, 2014

“PLEASE, let Godzilla be good!!! =D”

Early reactions suggest that it is going to be good one.

=================================

‘Godzilla’: First Audience Reactions Promise a Slow Reveal

Most of the trailers and teases for Godzilla so far have been very coy about showing the monster in full, though that might be something to do with the fact that it’s hard to get all of him onscreen at once. Early screenings of the movie have now begun, however, and it appears that the movie itself takes a long time to get to the full reveal. In fact, Godzilla himself doesn’t actually get a huge amount of screen time. Reactions to this have been mixed.

@devincf

“Edwards says they designed the movie to build and reveal Godzilla and action incrementally. Doesn’t blow his load on first Godzilla shot.”

While Godzilla not being seen much might sound a bit disappointing, there is such a thing as overkill and revealing the creature in increments is probably going to be a lot better for suspense than having him storm out in full glory within the first five minutes. Based on the other reactions to the movie – which have been overwhelmingly positive – it looks like Edwards’ approach works.

http://screenrant.com/godzilla-2014-details-reviews-previews/

859. Marja - May 2, 2014

845 Cygnus Seeing [Orci] defending his writing leaves one with the impression that he believes that has arrived at perfection in his craft which simply cannot be improved upon.

Perfection of script, character motivation, plotline and so on are beside the point these days in Hollywood. Mr Orci’s movies generally make a great deal of money … so there’s a certain “perfection” in profitability if not in craft.

Yet there are — to my mind — laudable character moments in both ST and STiD. Plot- and drama-wise, I would like to see what could have been improved with 15 more minutes of screen time for character interaction and fewer action set pieces.

860. Marja - May 2, 2014

849 Mike Barnett, I think the advice generally dispensed is something like, “That way lies madness”

861. I am not Herbert - May 2, 2014

Thanks Ahmed! I sure hope so! =D

“…Godzilla himself doesn’t actually get a huge amount of screen time. Reactions to this have been mixed.”

Hmmmm….. hope this movie is not just a “teaser”… ;-)

Godzilla MUST be the STAR lead in a Godzilla movie, IMHO…

862. Marja - May 2, 2014

814 Curious, This question of “Director vs. Screenwriter” is interesting, innit, because I keep wondering how many scenes were cut from the two Treks in service of Big Action Scenes. I got the sense of rush, rush, rush: lovely little dollops of wonderful acting and dialogue interspersed with long frenetic action pieces.

But many of us are older than most Summer moviegoers I guess, and like to comprehend a story as it’s unfolding, and like stories motivated by curious explorer characters.

863. Ahmed - May 2, 2014

@862. Marja

‘I got the sense of rush, rush, rush: lovely little dollops of wonderful acting and dialogue interspersed with long frenetic action pieces.”

I think that is the general case of all works by Bob & Alex. Reading reactions to The Amazing Spider-Man 2 on other forums, I see most people mentioning that very thing. The nonsensical plot & long action scenes amidst some few character moments between Peter Parker & Gwen Stacy.

As I said upthread, Bob is the perfect blockbuster screenwriter, he knows what the summer audience want & he give them.

864. Phil - May 2, 2014

@851. What a load of nonsense, clear down the line.

Why should he avoid forums? It’s perfectly reasonable for any individual to choose how, when, and to what extent they will engage people.

You must have an incredibly short attention span. If you’d been paying attention over the last year, I’ve voiced issues with scheduling, character development, and the rationale over gratuitous scenes, like the infamous undie shot. I’m also very pleased that Bad Robot, Abrams, Orci, and others have emerged as strong advocates for the franchise, have successfully revitalized Trek, and seem willing to wade into the choppy corporate waters to try to grow it further. So, if I have to choose between the commercial version of the franchise, that looks and feels a bit different from the TOS of my youth, or the ‘pay for play’ fan films, that increasingly are looking like your average space shoot-em-up, I can live with the former.

865. Ahmed - May 2, 2014

@864. Phil

“Why should he avoid forums? It’s perfectly reasonable for any individual to choose how, when, and to what extent they will engage people.”

He is the screenwriter. If he “chooses not to debate his work in the court of public opinion” as you put it, then there is no reason at all for him to engages with people here.

“If you’d been paying attention over the last year, I’ve voiced issues with scheduling, character development, and the rationale over gratuitous scenes, like the infamous undie shot.”

So you claim that you have issues with STID “character development” & yet you are more than happy to have the man responsible for that to be the director, that make perfect sense!

866. CecilofRil - May 2, 2014

865. Ahmed

I have been reading your posts for some time now, and I feel it is time that I registered my opinion on the matter.

You have made mention of other directors that have been “successful” or not depending on the projects that they have done. But, success is only measured in Hollywood from a monetary angle. STID was successful. You (and by extension, i am not Herbert) may think it a “lesser” movie or not Trek at all, but others disagreed with you because it is one of the only “successful” Trek movies of the whole franchise.

As to other parts of the “argument,” apparently you haven’t been watching Voyager, Enterprise or TOS. Those series are RIFE with action and adventure, as well as the “cerebral” aspects mentioned before. Heck, even DS9 had an entire WAR story arc, but I guess that means that it’s “cerebral.” But, since you don’t have a clue as to what “Trek” truly is, you might save yourself embarrassment and leave boborci alone. If Paramount offers him the job, then he will pursue it with all the respect that Trek truly deserves. But, you (or even anyone else here, including me) won’t influence Paramount’s decisions. That is their decision, not yours.

By the way, what shows HAVE you watched? Because, I get the feeling you have only seen the movies judging by the posts you have made. I get the feeling that you are a total TNG fan, and don’t get anything else “Trek.” Because, had you watched TOS, you would know that the “nu-Trek” or “BR Trek” or whatever you want to call it, has that “old school” feel to it, albeit with a bit more action than people were used to. But, isn’t that why most Trek fans LIKE First Contact anyway? More action than the previous movies? I mean, look at the so called “popular” Trek movies. II, IV, VI, VIII, IX, 09 and ID, they all have one thing in common: more action than the previous movie. But, I guess you don’t know what “Trek” really is. I guess I am “barking up the wrong warp core.”

One last thing, to “i am not Herbert.”
You are a TROLL. ’nuff said. Get on out of here, unless you are going to register an opinion that is WORTH reading.

867. Keachick (Rose) - May 2, 2014

Ahmed – Just stop right there! Bob Orci was one of a team of people responsible for bringing STID to cinemas and Blu-ray/DVD.

I also have some issues with the movies – mostly with the overly long fight/action sequences, but the REALITY is that none of us actually know who was most responsible for the initial writing. What is known is that the director was JJ Abrams and STID, like the first Star Trek, appears to be JJ Abrams, director/producer’s final cut.

He did not necessarily get the final say – always and you know that, as we all do. I am just so sick of reading your simplistic and nasty comments about and towards a person who was/is one among many.

Did it ever occur to you and others like you, eg I am not Herbert, that perhaps, one of the reasons why Bob Orci has put his name into the “hat” to be considered as next Trek’s movie director is because he wants to address certain issues he did not get the chance to do in the last two movies? Also, would/could it possibly occur in some tiny corner of your minds that he may actually be able to do a movie that is more in keeping with people like myself and Marja have been talking about and wanting, ie less violence and more good character driven dialogue and scenes? One can always hope so!

As far as Bob Orci engaging with social media or not, he is a free agent, just like the rest of us. Stop being so presumptuous.

K/O Paper Products was behind the making of both The Proposal and People Like Us – both good movies.

868. THX-1138 - May 2, 2014

About Godzilla:

There seems to be a couple of complaints coming from the early screeners, one being that it’s a slow reveal of Godzilla. I am fine with that. It worked well in Jaws (even though that was born mostly out of technical difficulties with the shark.). And keep in mind that in the original Godzilla (Gojira), Godzilla is only on screen for 15 or 20 minutes, and that is generally regarded as the best Godzilla film.

The second complaint comes from mostly Japanese film-goers who I presume were reacting to what we all have seen in the trailers, as I can’t imagine a lot of native Japanese folks were at the early pre-screening. The comments mostly centered around how the title character was a fine “American” Godzilla i.e. he’s “fat” or “chubby”. Hilarious when you recall that most often Godzilla, the man in suit version, looks even more fat and chubby than this new iteration.

I am totally stoked for this new movie. I’m all for a slow reveal. I’m all for a more dramatic and “realistic” take on the Godzilla story. I’m all for watching these fine actors bring their talents to a “Big Bug” movie.

869. Ahmed - May 2, 2014

@866. Keachick (Rose)

I think you need to take an anger management course.

Check this link for more info about anger management courses in Auckland

http://www.aucklandtherapy.co.nz/Counselling+issues/Anger+management+counselling.htm

And you are very welcome :-)

870. Ahmed - May 2, 2014

@867. THX-1138

“I am totally stoked for this new movie. I’m all for a slow reveal. I’m all for a more dramatic and “realistic” take on the Godzilla story. I’m all for watching these fine actors bring their talents to a “Big Bug” movie.”

I feel the same way. Godzilla is one of the few summer movies that I’m planning to see along with Dawn of the Planet of the Apes, X-Men: Days of Future Past, Jupiter Ascending & Edge of Tomorrow.

871. I am not Herbert - May 2, 2014

the last so-called “Godzilla” from Americuh was a slow reveal too…

…and it SUCKED. (I’m a little worried now) (But at least he’s not a “lizard”?)

“Americanized” “foreign” movies usually SUCK (like 47 Ronin)…

but I will stay hopeful, for now… =D

872. Ahmed - May 2, 2014

=========================================

The lazy plotting and racial politics of ‘The Amazing Spider-Man 2′

The writing and plotting in “The Amazing Spider-Man 2” are awful in a way that gives “cartoonish” a bad name. Characters are constantly leaving for England on a moment’s notice because plot mechanics demand it, or telling people not to get things “twisted,” because that is apparently what the kids say these days. Relationships that have lapsed for decades suddenly bind characters together like chains of fire.

The movie’s lead writers Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci announced last week that they would be going their separate ways on movie projects, though they will continue to make television together. It is unfortunate that they did not recognize the diminution of their creative partnership before subjecting us to “The Amazing Spider-Man 2.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/act-four/wp/2014/05/02/the-lazy-plotting-and-racial-politics-of-the-amazing-spider-man-2/?tid=pm_opinions_pop

873. Keachick (Rose) - May 2, 2014

Ahmed – You keep twisting facts re the level of Bob Orci’s involvement and power he would/could have had in the making of the first two ST movies. You also continue to twist and/or deliberately ignore what posters like myself, Phil and others have said about STID, and continually insult people like me with your “fanboy etc” comments. Continually doing what you have done for some time now is what can make people angry and they have every right to be so, including Bob Orci in that time which shall not be named.

You “play dirty” and that’s what I don’t like. You appear to lack a sense of objective critical thinking or any sense of fair-mindedness. I am not any Orci “fangirl”. I just do not like someone/anyone being treated as you continue to do here, whether it is anyone of us *anonymous* posters or a writer/producer and hope-to-be director, Roberto Orci.

If I did not know any better, I would have to consider that you, Ahmed, are behaving like a provocative and patronizing twerp. Now, I said – STOP IT ALREADY!

874. Keachick (Rose) - May 2, 2014

#871 – “or telling people not to get things “twisted,” because that is apparently what the kids say these days.”

So now you are quoting a link where the reviewer (as one means of denouncing a film they don’t like) says the above. Gee, the idiocy never stops…:(

Oh dear… I also used the word “twist”. One related word is “distort”, which is what you do…

“Origin:
1300–50; Middle English twisten to divide, derivative of twist divided object, rope (compare Old English -twist in candel-twist pair of snuffers); cognate with Dutch twisten to quarrel, German Zwist a quarrel.”

The kids are just using the word “twist” just as people in Northern Europe and UK have been doing since the 14th century.

875. TrekMadeMeWonder - May 2, 2014

sorry. Been stayin away from the TM blog with the new spidey flick in theatres. But, I did see a few comments about race, above.

Am I gonna have to go see this movie, tonight? And, if (someone) wrote a bad Spiderman flick – AGAIN – I am going to be really, really bothered.
Especially after the extreme failure that was STiD.

I am thinking that I really should wait till Monday for the matinee.
Perhaps I will call Buckaroohawk and ask him if he will go with me.

876. Phil - May 2, 2014

@865. Your arrogance is simply amazing. Your entire position is that unless someone on the production teams willingly submits to public interrogation, then they have no business being on social media? I would not care, except you don’t hold the producers of fan films to the same standard…..

What I have ‘claimed’, from the time the news broke, was that Bob’s extensive professional career was sufficient qualification TO BE CONSIDERED for the gig. If the studio selects someone else, then so be it. Whatever conclusions you drew from that were plumbed from the depths of your imagination, not mine. The whiners have held the position that there is nothing in Bob’s resume to give anyone pause to believe that he’s remotely qualified to be considered. Assuming that is true, my question was, and still is, what are the qualifications, then? Better yet, put your money where your mouth is, and name a few people. You can’t, and won’t, because whatever ‘criteria’ is in your mind is subjective in a creative endeavor, and it completely and totally destroys your ‘anyone but Bob’ argument. If you are going to attempt to marginalize a reasoned observation, it’s time to either put up a counterpoint, or just acknowledge that whatever is driving your bitterness is a personal issue.

877. I am not Herbert - May 2, 2014

Ouch! ASM2 takes a hit! …yeah, another senseless spectacle from K/O =P

boborci is afraid to engage here, ‘cuz he would have to face the music! ;-)

in Holland, some people use “twisty” kinda like “stoney” X-) (it’s lame)

Ahmed seems a little justifiably peeved… and critical… (I can identify) =D

I do not sense arrogance or distortion on his part (he just riles you!) =D

878. Phil - May 2, 2014

@867. I recall reading somewhere that Toho basically licensed the ‘American’ Godzilla as a separate entity. Of course that was back for Roland Emmerich’s version, so it’s hard to say if they still think of the critter as having an east or west version

879. Keachick (Rose) - May 2, 2014

#876 – Bob Orci can and does “face the music” on various occasions. I doubt that will stop, unless people like Ahmed make it utterly impossible for him to engage here without having what he says or asks being ignored, while being insulted by these posters at the same time.

Ahmed is not justified in distorting what other posters have written just to satisfy his own negative agenda toward BR Star Trek and toward the notion of Bob Orci possibly becoming the next ST movie director.

Because I point this out, he then again posts me links to Anger Management courses in Auckland. Frankly, people like myself and Phil have way more reason to be “justifiably peeved” than Ahmed has.

Of course, he riles me, I am not Herbert, just as you are doing now. There is a reason for why he riles me, one I have already stated in this and previous posts.

880. Keachick (Rose) - May 2, 2014

Oh for an edit function: Ahmed posted the link once and he will not be doing that again, will he?…:/

881. I am not Herbert - May 2, 2014

THIS sounds pretty good: (WARNING – SPOILERY)

an enthused member of avpgalaxy.net:

“This film was f**king monumentally awesome! I wanted to write a bad review just to piss off Aspie but I can’t. First things first the serious tone of this movie works incredibly well. It’s not so serious that you can’t have fun, the fun is all with GODZILLA. They nailed his character. He’s intelligent, badass and above all scary. He’s terrifying and yet you’re on his side to kick the MUTOs arse. He’s massive, and his ridiculous size is totally believable: every step, every roar, every movement carries so much weight. His roar is sooo loud, I was watching this in a screen with a Dolby sound system and it shook the room, literally. if this doesn’t win an Oscar for sound design I’ll be surprised! It was like the first time you heard Jurassic Park. I could cream more over how amazingly well they nailed the G but I think that sums it up. They nailed Godzilla. Oh and his atomic breath…I needed new under wear.”

=D

882. I am not Herbert - May 2, 2014

Rose, let me give you a (HUG)… just let it go… <3

plus… you know what they say if you can't take a joke… ;-)

just get one of your stuffed animals and choke the sh*t out of it, picturing Ahmed… and then LAUGH ABOUT IT!

…silly girl.. ;-)

883. Keachick (Rose) - May 2, 2014

Really, I am not Herbert? So you post a quote by someone who reviews a movie by using the fact that he had a hard one and ejaculated into his underwear to describe just how amazing this film was.

I guess I am a bit touchy and pissed off – so bite me…:(

884. Keachick (Rose) - May 2, 2014

Sorry – if I didn’t get the “joke”…:(

885. I am not Herbert - May 2, 2014

…it’s ALL a joke, dear girl! =)

886. Ahmed - May 2, 2014

@875. Phil

“Your entire position is that unless someone on the production teams willingly submits to public interrogation, then they have no business being on social media? I would not care, except you don’t hold the producers of fan films to the same standard…..”

No, that is not my position. I was responding specifically to the point that you made about not debating his work in which case it didn’t make sense to come to forums. A writer/producer/director should engage with the public if s/he wishes to do so & I applaud Bob for coming here from time to time even when some of us, like me, are harsh on him.

As for the fan films, I only start watching some of the episodes this year. When Star Trek: Renegades & the rest are out this summer, I will let you know what I think about them, but I can’t judge them before I watch them.

“The whiners have held the position that there is nothing in Bob’s resume to give anyone pause to believe that he’s remotely qualified to be considered. Assuming that is true, my question was, and still is, what are the qualifications, then? Better yet, put your money where your mouth is, and name a few people. You can’t, and won’t, because whatever ‘criteria’ is in your mind is subjective in a creative endeavor, and it completely and totally destroys your ‘anyone but Bob’ argument.”

It is not ‘anyone but Bob’ but rather anyone but a novice director, be it Bob or anyone else. The way I see it, a novice director, who never directed anything before, should not consider directing a tentpole movie such as ST 3 as his directorial debut.

I don’t think it is too much to ask for an experienced director for the 50th anniversary. Not asking for an A-list director but at least someone who care about the plot & characters as much as the action scenes.

Directors such as Alex Proyas (Dark City), Rupert Wyatt (Rise of the Planet of the Apes), Duncan Jones (Source Code), Drew Goddard (The Cabin in the Woods) & Brad Bird (Mission Impossible 4).

At least Alex Kurtzman directed some TV before making his directorial debut.

887. I am not Herbert - May 2, 2014

aww…, man!

THAT got censored?!

BOGUS! =(

888. Ahmed - May 2, 2014

881. I am not Herbert – May 2, 2014

“just get one of your stuffed animals and choke the sh*t out of it, picturing Ahmed… and then LAUGH ABOUT IT!”

LOL, dude, you are hilarious

889. dmduncan - May 2, 2014

@847: No on said Bob “needs” to tell us why he should be the director or even that he OWES us an explanation. The explanation he owes to the guy who will hire him. Beyond the setting where that happens, or doesn’t, it’s just a good interview question and a chance to positively answer the doubts some have.

890. Ahmed - May 2, 2014

@ 878. Keachick (Rose) – May 2, 2014

“Ahmed is not justified in distorting what other posters have written just to satisfy his own negative agenda toward BR Star Trek and toward the notion of Bob Orci possibly becoming the next ST movie director.”

I don’t need to distort anyone’s comments. Whenever I respond to someone, I attach quote from their comment, just like I’m doing now.

891. Keachick (Rose) - May 2, 2014

“I don’t think it is too much to ask for an experienced director for the 50th anniversary. Not asking for an A-list director but at least someone who care about the plot & characters as much as the action scenes.”

What you have written here is nonsense and once again makes negative assumptions about the kind of input Bob Orci offered in the last two movies. You just keep doing it. You just can’t help yourself, can you?

Bob Orci is one of the writers in this next anniversary film, just as he was ONE of the writerS for the last two films. Why would he not care about the plot and characters he is actually doing the writing for? What makes you think that all he cared about were the action scenes, when so many other people were involved and may have cared more about these action scenes than Bob did? It is these continual assumptions made about a person that riles me. You seem to take your own assumptions as a fact and insist that everyone else be in accord with your statements.

Well, I am not because nothing of what you write is based on any empirical data directly relating to one person, Roberto Orci.

What makes you think that any of these directors you mention will necessarily care about the plot and characters any more than Bob Orci would, especially given that he (unlike the directors) has played a significant part in writing the story?

This is beyond dumb.

892. boborci - May 2, 2014

has anyone heard Buble’s cover of the Spider-Man theme? it’s really good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WQJg5fP0U8

893. Keachick (Rose) - May 2, 2014

Then why do you insist on referring to people like me as being “fanboys” who, you say, ignore the fact that Bob Orci has had no directorial experience – and yes, you have done just that.

I have been very clear from the outset about where I stand and have outlined both the pros and cons. Yet you choose to ignore this, as you have done with others.

I don’t like your style – not at all. There is something in the way you post that does not come across as being quite “right” and I think you know what I mean. It is this “manner” that finally provoked Orci into posting those two words, which shall not be repeated and at times it has me wanting to repeat those same words, which shall not be repeated, as well. You do twist/distort and I am sick of it.

894. I am not Herbert - May 2, 2014

Ahmed: “LOL, dude, you are hilarious”

glad I could give SOMEONE a smile! ;-)

i thought the one that got censored was pretty good too… ;-) oh well..

ENJOY the start of the summer movie season, people! =D

(i have to wait for netflix…) =(

895. Ahmed - May 2, 2014

@890. Keachick (Rose)

“Bob Orci is one of the writers in this next anniversary film, just as he was ONE of the writerS for the last two films.
….
Well, I am not because nothing of what you write is based on any empirical data directly relating to one person, Roberto Orci.”

He was the writer AND the producer, therefore he has more responsibilities than your typical screenwriter.

896. I am not Herbert - May 2, 2014

Greetings, Bob! =D

…we were just talking about you! ;-)

897. boborci - May 2, 2014

little ole’ me?

898. I am not Herbert - May 2, 2014

…the one WE LOVE! (…to hate) ;-)

any tidbits? we’re all very curious… ;-)

899. I am not Herbert - May 2, 2014

new production designer, perhaps?

900. Ahmed - May 2, 2014

@ 896. boborci – May 2, 2014

“little ole’ me?”

Yes, indeed. The majority here are supporting the idea that you direct ST 3, but few – including me- are against it. That why we are having fun (sometime) arguing & fighting among ourselves :-)

901. Mike Barnett - May 2, 2014

Hey there, Bob! That Buble video was great!
Do you use meditation or something after you read negative comments about you on Trekmovie.com? Just curious…..it seems like boborci 2.0 is kinder and gentler – despite the negatrons around here and other interweb locations :-)

902. Phil - May 2, 2014

Speaking of superhero theme songs….

https://www.facebook.com/daniel.debrier/posts/716205185103457?notif_t=close_friend_activity

903. I am not Herbert - May 2, 2014

…tech / science / physics consultant?

904. Phil - May 2, 2014

Lamictal, Mike. Lots of it. Bill Handel swears by it….

905. I am not Herbert - May 2, 2014

new cinematographer?

906. boborci - May 2, 2014

900 Mike Barnett

As a matter of fact, I do!

907. I am not Herbert - May 2, 2014

Re: meditation or something

which? ;-)

908. I am not Herbert - May 2, 2014

i hope ur not talking about the purple stuff…

909. Harry Ballz - May 2, 2014

Meditation?

Nah, Bob just drinks a gallon of his favorite Merlot. It’s name?

RED MATTER

910. Disinvited - May 2, 2014

#846. Cygnus-X1 – May 1, 2014

I will attempt to so do. But before striking out on that journey, I’ve been using the pause in the discussion to reevaluate whether things that were self-evident to me in the 60s may no longer be in the new millennium. To ensure that I am communicating to you on a common ground of understanding, I ask you: “What is your understanding as to why Roddenberry, in creating the characters Uhura, Sulu, and Chekov, chose to make Uhura African, Sulu Asian and Chekov Russian?”
.

#857. J – May 2, 2014, 823. Oscar – May 1, 2014

Look, I don’t want Orci to direct over a Steven Spielberg, I am just resigned to the fact that corporate think in nuParamount is pretty much that of old:
The caliber of director that Paramount is willing to pay for isn’t going to be Steven. I don’t want that to be the case for anniversary Trek, but I accept that it is.

I hope that I am wrong, but going on that previously stated assumption I think Bob is liable to be the best Trek is going to get and if he can convince a rightly reticent Paramount to give him the chair, then I’m not going to waste time moaning and groaning about it until after I actually see it — if such is warranted. I think there’s a chance that he could produce something wonderful.

There is also one other possibility that is remote but would be welcome: These mysterybox lovers have already signed Nicholas Meyer and Orci throwing his hat in the ring is a clever ruse to get publicity rolling and keep us in the dark.

911. Ahmed - May 2, 2014

@909. Disinvited

“The caliber of director that Paramount is willing to pay for isn’t going to be Steven. I don’t want that to be the case for anniversary Trek, but I accept that it is.”

Agreed, Paramount is not going to hire an A-list director like Spielberg. But Hollywood is not just A-list, there are lots of other directors out there who could do the job, people like Alex Proyas , Rupert Wyatt or Duncan Jones.

However, if Paramount hire Bob, then I will support him & hope that he will do his best.

912. Jonboc - May 2, 2014

Call the neighbors and wake the kids!! Starship Exeter has completed the last episode!!
Bob Orci, if you’re not familiar with them, check it out, it really is fun. Typical bad acting abounds, but it’s still loads of fun. Best teaser of any fan film, period. Anyway, sorry to hijack the discussion/arguing, but I’m just trying to spread the word.

The episode, in it’s entirety! (finally!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkuJG1_2MnU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

913. Ahmed - May 2, 2014

FATTY Godzilla :-)

=========================

Hollywood’s Godzilla Is an ‘American Fatty,’ Say Japanese Fans

While initial reaction to the Hollywood update has been mostly positive, some say the iconic Japanese monster has become too Americanized in one key respect: its waistline.

TOKYO — Some Japanese film fans think Gareth Edwards’ Godzilla character has put on too many pounds in all the wrong places, and they have been making their feelings known on the Internet.

“Whichever way you look at it, he’s an American fatty,” posted one fan after promo images and trailers went online in Japan.

“He got fat in America on cola and pizza,” tweeted another fan.

A common Japanese image of Americans is one of expanded waistlines — and not without some justification. Obesity levels in Japan are below 4 percent, versus around 36 percent in the U.S.

Comments have been rolling in all over social media, film fan sites and chat rooms this week.

“He’s couch potato Godzilla”; “It’s got no neck”; “He Supersized”; and “Marshmallow-Godzilla?” were just a few of the reactions from fans.

Some were less harsh about the new Godzilla but still unimpressed: “It’s chubby and cute,” wrote one.

“It looks like a seal,” said another.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/hollywoods-godzilla-is-an-american-700706

914. I am not Herbert - May 2, 2014

USA used to be fattest in the world! =P …now it’s mexico! seriously!

heh! funny to see how others see us! (very unhealthy)(killing ourselves)

…haven’t seen his profile… but he IS a no-neck! Fat-zilla! =D

915. Marja - May 3, 2014

915 Godzilla looks like he’s spent the last six decades pressing weights and taking steroids. Maybe he ate A-Rod and has been powerlifting Gibraltar. Doesn’t look fatty-fat-fat to me, just like a monster Gym rat. er, … lizard.
————————————————————————————————-
BobOrci, hiya. Still hoping y’all pull Spielberg out of the mystery box, but whatever, best of luck.

Per Instagram I see Quinto is in shape for whatever y’all throw at him ;-)

916. Elias Javalis - May 3, 2014

Better be Bob, Star Trek into Darkness was Bob everywhere and i loved it to the last minute!

917. Cygnus-X1 - May 3, 2014

848. Phil – May 2, 2014

I wasn’t criticizing him for not debating; I’ve just never seen him admit to the validity of any complaints about his work when he has chosen to respond in the past.

918. Cygnus-X1 - May 3, 2014

910. Disinvited – May 2, 2014

“What is your understanding as to why Roddenberry, in creating the characters Uhura, Sulu, and Chekov, chose to make Uhura African, Sulu Asian and Chekov Russian?”

GR was all about promoting an optimistic future where people of different ethnicity got along and worked together without problems stemming from prejudice or divisive cultural issues. Why, what’s it to you?

919. Captain Slow - May 3, 2014

@ 912 Jonboc

I don’t know if he would be allowed to watch a fan film. There always seems to be weird legal things surrounding unofficial productions and stories.

On a related note, the Tholians would be awesome to have in the movie! Just think how cool they would look with today’s effects.

Something I would like to add that I’ve never seen mentioned in this thread with regards to Bob directing, is that not having any prior experience he may not be as comfortable as J.J. staging huge action sequences and so we may get a quieter, more contemplative Star Trek movie. Something a lot of people here seem to want. Or Bob could have visions of the most humongous action scene in all of history. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.

920. Ralph Pinheiro - May 3, 2014

Mr. Bob Orci.

After these few years, You should ask yourself: Are our stories getting better? what should be analyzed? what worked in ST and STID? What problems need to be solved?

I am aware of all the challenges ahead of you and I count on good sense of your insight.

921. dmduncan - May 3, 2014

Wonderful cover of Spiderman theme by Buble. Man’s voice is golden.

The quality of the video was also so good that I’m wondering if anyone else saw that his singing was totally out of sync with his lips for the whole video until the end? I wonder if the video and audio get downloaded to your comp separately and can get out of sync.

922. Curious Cadet - May 3, 2014

Spiderman is doing pretty well at the box office. With an estimated $200-255 million budget, it’s already earned over $200 million worldwide. User reviews on Rotten Tomatoes are at an average 76%, so it should do well regardless of the negative critical reviews.

I see Spiderman 3 is due out June 2016. If Orci directs Trek 3, he’s going to be very busy …

923. Disinvited - May 3, 2014

#918. Cygnus-X1 – May 3, 2014

My understanding is that Gene was never so much interested in telling stories of the future so much as he was more interested in using the setting as a tool to get around the limitations network censorship imposed on him stemming from its tacit approval of prejudice and/or divisive cultural issues.

Being possessed of a mind of some intellect, his goal was rather simple: to free his stories’ from the chains of such ignorance and foolishness. And in that simple act he and his show became a part of the zeitgeist of the era of the Civil Rights Movement. No less than Martin Luther King, Jr. himself recognized his show as a key part of his movement’s struggle. Uhura, Sulu and Chekov were and continued to be in 1991 important symbols in that struggle.

“Desilu Productions Inc.

Inter-department Communication

TO ALL CONCERNED DATE April 18,1968

FROM Gene Roddenberry SUBJECT Kirk, Spock and
Other Continuing STAR TREK
Characters

Page 4.

CHEKOV

Too often in the past Chekov has been simply the young man, who keeps saying “Russia invent that first!”. This was never a really good joke anyway — in fact runs rather counter to the broad international philosophy we’ve always tried to build into STAR TREK. If we do continue to use that as a continuing joke, lets make certain that it does come off as a good humored fun rather than appear to be a stupid chauvenistic[sic] attitude from the writer or producer of the episode.”

924. Mad Mann - May 3, 2014

901. Mike Barnett

“Negatrons?” Yes, I am a physics nerd, so…

You mean the electrons that are shot out of a nucleus during Beta-minus decay? If there are negatrons here, then where are the anti-neutrinos? And who are the neutrons turning into protons? Is that like someone that was neutral about Orci being a director but now is positive? So there has to be negatrons as well to complain about it?

Conservation of mass-energy, yo!

925. Trekbilly - May 3, 2014

Bob,

Took my son to see Amazing Spiderman 2 last night and we both loved it!! Congratulations on a very entertaining film that is head and shoulders overt the last one!

926. Trekbilly - May 3, 2014

Most iterations of Godzilla have been “chubby”. I’m looking forward to the new US version. I have a feeling they got it right this time. I hope so.

927. Ahmed - May 3, 2014

@ 922. Curious Cadet – May 3, 2014

“I see Spiderman 3 is due out June 2016. If Orci directs Trek 3, he’s going to be very busy …”

He is also producing The Mummy (2016) & Van Helsing (2016).

928. Keachick (Rose) - May 3, 2014

Ahmed – “He was the writer AND the producer, therefore he has more responsibilities than your typical screenwriter.”

And so were the other writers also producers so why do you single him out? You still have not given any evidence that Bob was more responsible for making a “mess of STID” (as you see it) than anyone else. Both BR films had quite a number of producers and executive producers.

“Produced by
J.J. Abrams … producer
Bryan Burk … producer
Jeffrey Chernov … executive producer
David Ellison … executive producer
Dana Goldberg … executive producer
Tommy Gormley … co-producer
Tommy Harper … co-producer
Alex Kurtzman … producer
Damon Lindelof … producer
Roberto Orci … producer
Michelle Rejwan … co-producer
Ben Rosenblatt … co-producer
Paul Schwake … executive producer”

Some of these people represented the film companies responsible for providing the money in order that the movie get made.

929. Keachick (Rose) - May 3, 2014

#913 – What? All this criticism coming from the land of the sumo wrestler? LOL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumo

https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=sumo+wrestling&client=firefox-a&hs=pJh&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=SUNlU9mxE5HNlAX-jYG4BA&ved=0CEMQsAQ&biw=1173&bih=811

930. Keachick (Rose) - May 3, 2014

Golly gosh –

@Bob Orci – Oh mate, re lobbying to be director – this could be a case of “be careful what you wish for!” Time will tell.

931. I am not Herbert - May 3, 2014

Rose: equating japanese with sumo IS distortion (maybe trying to be funny?)

932. Curious Cadet - May 3, 2014

@927. Ahmed,
“He is also producing The Mummy (2016) & Van Helsing (2016).”

Well he is writing Van Helsing, so that one is definitely a cause for concern as well. I’m less concerned about “producing” responsibilities. That could literally mean anything from giving notes when asked, to whipping out his wallet.

Spielberg “produces” a lot of things at once. But when he was directing Lincoln for instance, he wasn’t doing anything else, besides “producing”. Not writing, not prepping to direct something else. He was “executive producing” MEN IN BLACK 3, and a couple of TV series, but that’s not exactly hands-on as he’s not the creator/show-runner. I’m sure he was developing other projects too, but again, these are not things that demand his day-to-day attention, as there are many other qualified people hired to run these things.

But Orci is actively writing four movies, including the Spidey spinoff VENOM (so far), all released in the same year — surely they’re going to want him on the set when they are filming? He’s also producing all four as well as the MUMMY (is he also writing that one?), in addition to two series he created (is Transformers still going?), he seems to have a number of things in development including TV projects he’s also writing.

And now he wants to direct while all of that is going on. But as someone keeps pointing out, Orci is a young guy, and Spielberg is of another generation. I’m sure he can juggle writing and producing 3-4 movies at once, and direct at the same time, and have everything turn out brilliantly. And if it gets to be too much, just push the release date of Star Trek back a year to 2017 like they did for STID — I mean who really cares about the 50th Anniversary anyway … it’s just a date.

933. Cygnus-X1 - May 3, 2014

923. Disinvited – May 3, 2014

My understanding is that Gene was never so much interested in telling stories of the future so much as he was more interested in using the setting as a tool to get around the limitations network censorship imposed on him stemming from its tacit approval of prejudice and/or divisive cultural issues.

Being possessed of a mind of some intellect, his goal was rather simple: to free his stories’ from the chains of such ignorance and foolishness. And in that simple act he and his show became a part of the zeitgeist of the era of the Civil Rights Movement. No less than Martin Luther King, Jr. himself recognized his show as a key part of his movement’s struggle. Uhura, Sulu and Chekov were and continued to be in 1991 important symbols in that struggle.

It was both. Unshackling the show from the prevailing prejudices of the time, and portraying a hopeful, optimistic vision of the future. The TNG producers and writers have talked about the latter with regard to TNG, that GR was so bent on portraying a future where the crew got along like one big happy family that he forbade any inter-crew conflict in the stories during the first two seasons (prior to his health deteriorating and him putting Berman and Piller in charge as co-producers beginning in Season 3…if memory serves.).

So, I’m with you so far. GR’s idea was to be able to treat Uhura as a lieutenant rather than having to treat her as a Black woman, and Chekov as an ensign rather than as a Russian exchange-officer or something of the like. Please continue….

934. Ahmed - May 3, 2014

@932. Curious Cade

According to IMDB, Bob is writing 5 movies:

The Amazing Spider-Man 3
Star Trek 3
Van Helsing
Venom
Secret Cabinet (TV Movie)

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0649460/#writer

935. Marja - May 3, 2014

919 Captain Slow Something I would like to add that I’ve never seen mentioned in this thread with regards to Bob directing, is that not having any prior experience he may not be as comfortable as J.J. staging huge action sequences and so we may get a quieter, more contemplative Star Trek movie.

FROM YOUR LIPS TO GOD’S EAR, my friend. Or at least to Bob’s ear!

936. Oscar - May 3, 2014

OK, I see, debates are won not by the better argument here, but by whoever is last to concede…It is a sad sad sign of our times…
As producer, Mr Orci should lobby for the best director. As trek fan he should lobby for the best director. Nope, he is lobbying for himself, even as he knows he is not the best choice…This is ST right now, not the best sci fi show, Asimov dixit, but a gijoe show , a crashed toy, but not crashed enough, so Orci wants the coup de grace…

A propos, Orci followers may be majority here, but only here. So…

937. Trekbilly - May 3, 2014

*sigh* Yesterday, the “fans” bashed Brannon Braga…today it’s Bob Orci. It’s a sad sign of our times…and goes to show that you can never please ALL Star Trek fans and the ones who aren’t pleased will act like immature spoiled brats.

938. Cygnus-X1 - May 3, 2014

919 Captain Slow Something I would like to add that I’ve never seen mentioned in this thread with regards to Bob directing, is that not having any prior experience he may not be as comfortable as J.J. staging huge action sequences and so we may get a quieter, more contemplative Star Trek movie.

You think that with Paramount’s directive for more action to appeal to the foreign market that they’d hire a director who wasn’t comfortable staging action sequences?

“Well, Bob, we’re hiring you because you’re a nice guy, and since you’re not comfortable doing big action set-pieces, we’re cool with you making this more of an auteur film.”

It ain’t happening.

Which is not to say, given his screenwriting to date, that Bob is well-suited to making a contemplative, deliberate movie, in any case. The Spiderman’s, Cowboys and Aliens and so forth have a target audience just as BR Trek has a target audience. Bob was hired to write the BR Trek movies because his writing style is in line with Paramount’s marketing strategy, not in spite of that fact. If they don’t think that he can direct the kind of movie that they want to make, then they ain’t hiring Bob to direct it.

939. Spock's Bangs - May 3, 2014

#936 “… Orci followers may be majority here, but only here. So…”

Nope. Wrong again, Oscar! lol. We are the majority…period. Sorry it makes you grumpy but you might as well go watch Old reruns of TNG because Orci is in charge, he and Bad Robot ARE Star Trek now, and all the grumpiness you can muster will never ever change that. Sorry! :(

FACT !

940. Marja - May 3, 2014

938 Cygnus, Alas, it’s dawning on me that you may be absolutely right. Looking back to the movies BobO’s made, and the one currently out and the comments it’s gotten, I’m feeling some sadness. I guess the “crest/trough” model of ACTION! followed by emotion, discussion, or mourning followed by ACTION-ACTION-ACTION isn’t JJ’s model but Bob’s.

Dang it all

941. Marja - May 3, 2014

936 Oscar, I see, debates are won not by the better argument here, but by whoever is last to concede

No, Oscar, that is the MJ model, one which got him banned from the board. It is also the way people here behave when they’re being troll-ish. Argue your points without insulting the people who disagree or those admirers of the creators you dislike [“bootlickers?!” rully??], then you will stand a better chance of debating well and getting others to agree with your points — if not all, some.

942. Ahmed - May 3, 2014

@940. Marja

” I guess the “crest/trough” model of ACTION! followed by emotion, discussion, or mourning followed by ACTION-ACTION-ACTION isn’t JJ’s model but Bob’s.”

That is the model in all his movies, except for “People Like Us “.

Bob wrote 11 movies so far:

The Amazing Spider-Man 2
Star Trek Into Darkness
People Like Us
Cowboys & Aliens
Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen
Star Trek
Transformers
Mission: Impossible III
The Legend of Zorro
The Island

Of these 11 movies, only 2 are good movies IMO, Star Trek09 & Mission: Impossible III. His fans here might add STID but still that is 3 “good” movies out of 11! Not really a good record.

@ 939. Spock’s Bangs – May 3, 2014

” #936 “… Orci followers may be majority here, but only here. So…”
Nope. Wrong again, Oscar! lol. We are the majority…period.”

Only here at trekmovie & I think the main reason because he comes here & you all feel that he is part of the “family”.

When you go out of this echo chamber & check other Trek sites like trekcore & trektoday or general forums, it is a very different story over there.

943. Ahmed - May 3, 2014

Forgot to add the 11th movie, “Locke & Key”, a TV movie.

944. Curious Cadet - May 3, 2014

@934. Ahmed,
“According to IMDB, Bob is writing 5 movies:”

I don’t count TV movies. Whole different process from film movies, and will be finished and off his plate long before it interferes with Star Trek.

945. Curious Cadet - May 3, 2014

@939. Spock’s Bangs,
“FACT !”

I forget, which alias of M Js were you?

946. Mike Barnett - May 3, 2014

This humorous video came out last year from The Onion. They’re poking fun at the haters of nuTrek. I’m a fan of oldTrek and nuTrek – the video made me LOL. We can’t take ourselves too seriously, right?

Trekkies Bash New Star Trek Film As ‘Fun, Watchable':
http://www.theonion.com/video/trekkies-bash-new-star-trek-film-as-fun-watchable,14333/

947. Keachick (Rose) - May 3, 2014

#931 – Sumo wrestling is an ancient Japanese sport and tradition. The wrestlers are put on a special diet where they eat huge amounts of food in order to get very big and muscly. How muscly this Godzilla could be, I don’t know, but the sumo is the epitome of a big fat muscle mutt.

Who’s being funny?

I don’t know if Bob Orci is into action stuff any more than his co-writer. Bear in mind that all those movies mentioned were all movies that he CO-wrote and was one among a number of writers and producers. Personally, I suspect that Alex Kurtzman may be the one who prefers writing less action-orientated films, but I could be wrong there.

Although People Like Us was initially a Kurtzman project, based/inspired by his own real-life experiences, it seems that Orci felt more than a little attraction to this particular story because of his own particular experiences.

One interesting aspect that I note here is just how many people say they liked the third and fourth series of Enterprise and say that it was just getting good because of story and character arcs. Yet both these seasons were more violent overall than the first two seasons with talk of war with Romulans.
So do people want to continue to see violent action films dealing with war and destruction; threat of war and political intrigue, complicity/duplicity or –

do people want stories dealing with other themes like discovery of a peaceful species; relationships of various kinds being forged among crew ; good people trying to deal as compassionately and as wisely as they know how with environmental crises… etc?

Which is it? Which do the majority want to see more of than the other?

Frankly I am having a hard time working it out and I suspect that maybe the present producers/writers of Trek may be just as confused. I know what I prefer, but I am not so sure just what it is that others really want.

948. dmduncan - May 3, 2014

922. Curious Cadet – May 3, 2014

Just like every other movie, a viewer has to make the call on it himself, and opinions of Spiderman 2 are all over the place. Since Spiderman is one of my two favorite superhero characters, I have more of an interest.

I’m in the group that really liked the movie. It had a character driven story full of many “small” well-done moments between Peter and Gwen. At times it seemed too ambitious, with too many things going on setting up and tying together dual villain subplots, which is why I think at times it also seemed slow.

But the humor and the action scenes of Spidey doing his thing in the streets of my favorite big city were full of the youthful comic book energy I expect from the character. Three or four times the movie hit me hard and made my eyes water.

That short line of blood at the end of a terrific action sequence, was itself a great and powerful moment that I will recall as the best moment in any Spiderman movie so far.

949. Disinvited - May 3, 2014

#936. Oscar – May 3, 2014

You write that as if he has been lobbying for the director’s chair since the wrap of their 2009 effort. That is not evident at all. He recently put his hat in the ring and began lobbying for it. This happened because something changed. In some reporting it is being intimated that Kurtzman leaving left Orci free of some bro code that kept him from ever considering it, but I don’t buy that. I feel it is more likely the standard Hollywood Studio suit bet hedging. Orci realized Paramount’s not going to release the resources he feels the occasion deserves to get the director it should have. He looked at Paramount’s director list and estimated that the worthy script his new team has produced just isn’t going to see true justice from Paramount’s narrow vision — so he’s going after it, himself.

.

#940. Marja – May 3, 2014

If you are looking for an Abrams’ filter in Bob’s collaborations with him, I suggest looking at his vanity project SUPER 8.

.

#943. Curious Cadet – May 3, 2014

Then how do you account for TV film productions that end up with a product so good that the studio has a change of heart and gives them theatrical runs? I mean the scripting process can’t be that different, can it? And if it is, apparently each can benefit from using the other’s approach from time to time.

The other thing to consider is TV writing is currently considered so superior to movie scripting that one assumes it is more involved and thus takes longer or at least commands more creative juices/energy and this would directly affect “lesser” works?

950. Keachick (Rose) - May 3, 2014

Why are projects that film makers have a dream about being to make called “vanity” projects? It is something of a putdown.

Perhaps a better name could be called a “labour of love” project. Anyway, apart from normal economic considerations, ie need to earn a living (and hopefully a good one), what other reason could a film maker have, other than to be bring to life on the screen an idea, an inspiration, a dream…

951. Curious Cadet - May 3, 2014

@949 Disinvited,

What are you talking about? What TV Film productions have been given theatrical runs?

And what sources are saying TV scripts are so superior to film?

I’m afraid you assume to much. When I discount TV movies, I discount the process. Everything is faster in TV. Projects are developed faster, scripts are written and polished much more quickly, and a two-hour movie is shot in a month rather than 3-6, with the post production process greatly accelerated, usually a month and a half at most.

So whatever Orci is doing currently with respect to a TV movie, it will be completed and off his plate before it affects Star Trek, or any of the other three or four projects he’s writing and producing.

952. Marja - May 4, 2014

945 Curious, yeh, the phrasing does seem *familiar*

950 Rose, I think “vanity project” came out of some very ill-advised undertakings in decades past, and the term has stuck. Ill-advised things like, a star making a movie featuring his most famous character. Only the star has no producing/directing credits or hires people to do these tasks who are absolute rubbish at it.

I agree that “labor of love” is a much nicer term, and is often used for movies by great directors/writers who don’t expect a huge monetary return on the project, e.g., Spielberg’s “Lincoln” and “Schindler’s List” which both brought in viewers in droves, but were not like Spielberg’s “usual fare” from
previous outings.
——————————————————————————-
951 Curious, TV writing such as Matthew Weiner and others do for series like “Mad Men,” “The Sopranos,” “The Wire,” “House of Cards,” “True Detective,” “The Killing” and other critically acclaimed shows is much better quality than most movie writing is. Many attract excellent actors for their casts, e.g., Woody Harrellson and Matthew McConaughey in “True Detective.”

Most quality film writing is done for lower-budget, “indie” features. Which, unfortunately, don’t “open wide” in the US and don’t always make it to my North Florida town.

Yes, there is a lot of hurriedly produced TV out there. But I think the poster you’re responding to was speaking of shows like the ones I’ve cited above.

953. Captain Slow - May 4, 2014

@ 938 Cygnus-X1

Well my theory was that it wouldn’t be an action-free movie, but rather that there would be fewer over-the-top action scenes. For instance, had Bob directed STID then perhaps the Klingon shoot-out and the final Spock vs. Khan fight would have been shorter or less intense.

In my opinion this would be a good thing. I’m not against action, but there is a point where it becomes too much. Something no one in Hollywood seems to realize is that pure action is boring to watch. If you have a fight scene, it can’t go on too long and there has to be a really compelling reason behind it in order to make it great IMHO.

Anyway, my hope is that as director Bob could sneak some more talky stuff under the radar. Perhaps the big Spock-McCoy argument fans having been requesting for years.

On an unrelated note, Thursday is the 5th anniversary of ST09’s release. That’s half a decade! Where has the time gone?

954. Dissapointed - May 4, 2014

I loved the Amazing Spider-Man. Spidey 2 didn’t work at all — I’m thinking it’s the K&O effect. Please do film-lovers a favor, fellas. Take the money and run.

955. Disinvited - May 4, 2014

#951. Curious Cadet – May 3, 2014

” What are you talking about? What TV Film productions have been given theatrical runs?” — Curious Cadet

Let’s see the whole thing got started in the early days of television when they starting using film. It was quite common at the time to book theatrical runs of filmed television episodes in regions outside the United States. But for the purpose of our discussion the most important step was when WarnerBros decided to connect two hour long episodes of THE MAN FROM U.N.C.L.E into actual movie length features, rescuing elements that the NBC censors had excised to give it a racier edge and occasionally some new connecting material and music but make no mistake the bulk of these features where the elements filmed for the scripted television show. It was so successful WB went back to the well 7 or 8 more times. So successful, Universal tried to cash in on THE MUNSTERS with MUNSTER GO HOME using an original filmed production, but I digress.

Fast Forward to STAR WARS, Universal finally got some U.N.C.L.E., not to mention STAR WARS action, when they hooked up with Glenn Larson to make the TV series BATTLESTAR GALACTICA. This time they took a slightly different tack from WB: they had filmed so much footage for the 3 hour television pilot (which aired) that Universal and Larson decided to edit the wealth of material down into a shorter (I believe it was 87 minutes) theatrical film. They even started its theatrical run in Canada BEFORE ABC aired the first TV movie. It’s theatrical run was so lucrative for Universal that it went region by region around the globe eventually returning to the U.S. for a theatrical run as the series had been canceled by then. It even underwent a value added conversion process, much as today’s 2D filmed movies get converted to 3D, into Sensurround(sp?). Larson did similar theatrical cuts/runs for the pilot movies of his BUCK ROGERS and KNIGHT RIDER television pilot movies as well.

Anyway the process continues to this day with the most infamous TV movie to get a theatrical run being SYFY’s SHARKNADO.

I consider the process to have morphed mostly into direct-to-video from which occasionally a film never intended for a theatrical run gets one such as DONNIE DARKO. And while the claim is made that those things are never intended for a television exhibition, I often find that they do end up airing on some channel somewhere – especially all the DISNEY direct-to-video fare.

.

“ And what sources are saying TV scripts are so superior to film?” — Curious Cadet

Terence Winter for one (see my msg 462.):

http://screenrant.com/boardwalk-empire-terence-winter-writing-tv-film-yman-166075/

“And there clearly is an audience out there, of people who want to be engaged, who are willing to pay attention, and follow a story that requires a little effort. In Boardwalk Empire, for instance, that freedom means tackling an ultimate taboo like incest, or letting a gangster storyline play out to its logical conclusion of killing a lead character. Sometimes that leaves people feeling very ill at ease – but for me that’s the only way to tell a story.” — Terence Winter

And most actresses agree, women are better written for TV.

956. Disinvited - May 4, 2014

#950. Keachick (Rose) – May 3, 2014

I always took its meaning from “vanity press”, i.e. he couldn’t get anyone to publish it so he had to resort to bearing the cost of printing himself.

957. I am not Herbert - May 4, 2014

…would have to agree: much better chance of seeing intelligent fare on TV.
(including portrayal of women)

theatrical movies are MUCH more prone to pandering to the lowest common denominator (popcorn movies) (like nu-trek) (drek)

958. I am not Herbert - May 4, 2014

BTW: May the fourth be with you! =D

959. I am not Herbert - May 4, 2014

Ancient Civilizations? Mysterious Structures Found On The Bottom Of The Ocean Floor

http://thetruthwins.com/archives/ancient-civilizations-check-out-these-mysterious-structures-found-on-the-bottom-of-the-ocean-floor

960. I am not Herbert - May 4, 2014

Overwhelming evidence of the curative powers of cannabis
(is why the pharmaceutical industry is behind prohibition laws)

http://preventdisease.com/news/12/032212_Another-Reason-Marijuana-is-Illegal-It-Prevents-The-Spread-of-HIV.shtml

961. I am not Herbert - May 4, 2014

The Truth About the Obama Presidency Emerges

http://journal-neo.org/2014/04/30/the-obama-un-presidency/

962. Curious Cadet - May 4, 2014

@954 Disinvited,
“Anyway the process continues to this day with the most infamous TV movie to get a theatrical run being SYFY’s SHARKNADO”

Now let’s look at the question you asked @949, “Then how do you account for TV film productions that end up with a product so good that the studio has a change of heart and gives them theatrical runs?”

I asked you to give me examples and you give me a history lesson (for which you probably should have also mentioned Gil Gerard’s Buck Rogers) and you give me SHARKNADO.

So, is it any wonder I’m confused? I think it’s best you just say what you mean. Is it your contention that Bob Orci’s TV movie will be as good as SHARKNADO and therefore might become a feature film that will take up as much time as Spiderman and Star Trek? Or that Orci develops TV movies as a way to turn them into more feature film projects?

As for critics praising TV writing, again you are making assumptions about the effort involved. BOARDWALK EMPIRE is being praised because of the subject matter. SHARKNADO isn’t exactly on that list, but you say TV is considered so much better than film, so how can that be?

You say: “And most actresses agree, women are better written for TV.” Should I assume from that statement you think Orci reserves his best writing for women for the small screen, and therefore because it’s a TV movie he’s writing it won’t be another SHARKNADO?

Again I’m at a loss to your point vis-a-vis my original comment about TV movies and Orci’s schedule. Those critically praised TV projects follow the same grueling schedule as the most banal of them. What sets them apart is the subject matter and having something important to say. They don’t get any extra time, nor do they require any more hours in the day. The writers just have a point of view they want to share and aren’t being squeezed I to a box by the network and are allowed to say it. Are they perhaps better writers than those who write HOW I MET YOUR MOTHER? Perhaps, or perhaps they are working just as hard to dumb down their talents so they can make a living.

The bottom line is this: Good or bad, virtually all TV runs on the same accelerated development and production cycles. Good or bad, virtually all film gets the same leisurely development and production cycles. More time and effort thus does not always result in a better product. And those rare projects today that make the leap from TV to direct to video product are still operating on the same budgets as TV. You mention Donnie Darko, but you realize it was shot over 28 days — the same as a TV movie for a similar budget. Just because it got a theatrical release means nothing with respect to the time commitment of those involved, nor the quality of its content. You know what else started out on TV and got feature film releases? JACKASS.

963. Ahmed - May 4, 2014

Opening scene from Star Trek – Horizon.

==========================

Star Trek – Horizon: Opening Scene

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqny8JfsuJE

==========================
Not impressed at all. It is like watching a SG-Atlantis fan film, not Star Trek. Not to mention the bad acting & the annoying lens flares.

964. Oscar - May 4, 2014

949
STID was a fail. A creative fail, and an economic fail in USA. Its total budget was $ 250 millions. It earned $ 228 millions. It means,-$ 22 millions. And you must pay taxes and theaters, so the real STID déficit is…. 50, maybe 60 millions in USA?
And STID was directed and produced by Super JJ. An Orci production, directed by Orci, with an Orci and his little helpers plot will be a super fail. Creative fail, economic fail and a new dissapointing rendez vous for the world fans. If the next film is a fail…no more trek films…
And his STAR TREK is a betrayal, a well intentioned betrayal, but not less a betrayal.

965. Stephan - May 4, 2014

I don’t think, STID was a creative fail. I think the opposite is true. It had everything a Star Trek movie needs and more important it appealed to people who didn’t watch Trek before. So I think it was a creative hit.

966. Mike Barnett - May 4, 2014

964 Oscar
I live in a FACT-based world. Obviously you live in a world where you can make things up and claim it’s the truth.

Here are the F A C T S regarding STID….based on reality:

The film has received positive reviews, with critics calling it a “rousing adventure” and “a riveting action-adventure in space”. Into Darkness has an 87% approval rating on Rotten Tomatoes based on 244 reviews, with an average score of 7.6 out of 10. The site’s consensus reads, “Visually spectacular and suitably action packed, Star Trek Into Darkness is a rock-solid installment in the venerable sci-fi franchise, even if it’s not as fresh as its predecessor”. On Metacritic the film has a score of 72 out of 100, indicating “generally favorable reviews”, based on 43 collected reviews. It received an average grade of “A” from market-research firm CinemaScore.

It earned $467,365,246 million worldwide, ranking it in 14th place for 2013,

and

MAKING IT THE HIGHEST-GROSSING FILM OF THE FRANCHISE.

967. Disinvited - May 4, 2014

#962. Curious Cadet – May 4, 2014

“I asked you to give me examples and you give me a history lesson (for which you probably should have also mentioned Gil Gerard’s Buck Rogers) and you give me SHARKNADO. ” – Curious Cadet

No, you most specifically did not ask for examples; you challenged the whole concept. Hence, the history lesson to establish the practice as quite common.

And Glenn Larson’s BUCK ROGERS, which I did in fact mention, and Gil Gerard’s are one and the same. I threw in the most infamous (clearly identifying it as such) example too, to clearly establish the practice STILL exists.

I also included “…or at least commands more creative juices/energy” to indicate that what can be fatigued is not always measured in exhausted time doing actual work but most definitely can result in large blocks of no inspiration consuming it and taking its toll .

Now, you can see why I’m confused.

I did appreciate your clever coda, although I’m a bit nonplussed about what I did that exasperates you so. I just tried to answer the question you asked me.

968. Disinvited - May 4, 2014

#962. Curious Cadet – May 4, 2014

Let’s try my point from a different angle. How accurately does your approach reflect the very real delays that JJ Abrams experienced in getting STID to the theaters? I felt you were unfairly dismissing the effect of TV films in delaying the creative process on other projects by concentrating on the days shot over the whole shebang involved physically and mentally. Plus unscheduled EXTENDED delays can and do happen in both TV film and Movie productions — the most recently noted being MIDNIGHT RIDER.

969. Phil - May 4, 2014

@964. This isn’t that hard to figure out, Oscar. If there last film was the economic fail you proclaim, then there wouldn’t be a next film. Period.

So, your premise is invalid. There is a next movie, and the studio is using the same production company. Sorry, come back when you have facts, not fantasy.

970. boborci - May 4, 2014

Lock amd Key is not a TV movie. We shot a pilot for Fox that was not pocked up, and we have trung to secure the moviw rights at Univeraal.

971. Ahmed - May 4, 2014

@970. boborci

“Lock amd Key is not a TV movie. We shot a pilot for Fox that was not pocked up, and we have trung to secure the moviw rights at Univeraal.”

Guess that you needs to update your IMDB page , because it is listed there as (TV Movie) :-)

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0649460/#writer

972. Keachick (Rose) - May 4, 2014

I do wonder if a more action-driven film would necessarily be harder to direct than a more character-driven film such as People Like Us.

Most of the action sequences – fights, chases, battles can be choreographed, directed by an assistant who follows the general outline of the story which says this or these Klingons/redshirts get killed/wounded and then worked on by IT specialists in that field, with instructions given that the Enterprise only sustain this or that much damage or this number of ships get “wasted” etc.

The more close-up scenes involving main characters would no doubt need the attention of a more hands-on directorial approach because that quite likely is what tells the story (who, why, how…) and moves it along. I can see directors, JJ Abrams and Alex Kurtzman respectively, eg

JJ being much more involved in directing the STID scene after Harrison/Khan beats down the Klingons and then asks the three – “How many torpedoes?…” and what follows in that small scene – or

Kurtzman being very involved in a scene, eg when Sam realizes that his mother knew about the other family all along, where he is chasing her up the stairs and begging her to say his sister’s name (Frances, nickname Frankie) and what follows.

It is more than likely that the next Star Trek will require both kinds of directing, hopefully with there being a bit more *quieter* character interaction and dialogue.

973. Ahmed - May 4, 2014

@ 972. Keachick (Rose) – May 4, 2014

“I do wonder if a more action-driven film would necessarily be harder to direct than a more character-driven film such as People Like Us. ”

I think that you can find the answer to your question here

============================
Fantastic Four Director Tim Story Explains How Summer Movies Go Wrong

Tim Story was an up-and-coming director, with a hit movie (Barbershop) under his belt. And then he directed two Fantastic Four movies that nobody really liked. Now that he’s back on top with Ride-Along, Story is explaining what he learned from his two superhero films.

“With those types of big movies, you’re directing three movies. There’s the movie you’re shooting, there’s the second-unit action stuff, and there’s the visual effects movie. You’ve got to learn how to deal with all of them…

The other thing I learned from those two Fantastic Four movies, is that sometimes you can be too lax on how much control you give to the visual effects team, or the production design team, or whoever. If you end up in situations and you’re not happy with certain things, it’s because you didn’t stay on top of them”

http://io9.com/fantastic-four-director-tim-story-explains-how-summer-m-1570436471

974. boborci - May 4, 2014

971 I never check my IMDB page nor would I ever spend time correcting it.

975. Keachick (Rose) - May 4, 2014

Hi Bob Orci – having a bit of trouble with da English, that darned keyboard. I mean, where are you?…:)

Re: longer than usual TV film/episodes – well, the BBC (as well as other British TV production companies, like ITV) have been making these types of film for sometime now. Just about every British TV series episode, which is not comedy, tend to be to go between 60 and 90 minutes (excluding advertising) – Silent Witness, Midsommer Murders, Sherlock, Endeavour, Call the Midwife, Poirot, Miss Marple etc for many years and so the list goes on. However, the length of the series tend to be shorter, but are usually packed with quality.

Luvva the BBC!

976. dmduncan - May 4, 2014

973. Ahmed – May 4, 2014

“The other thing I learned from those two Fantastic Four movies, is that sometimes you can be too lax on how much control you give to the visual effects team, or the production design team, or whoever. If you end up in situations and you’re not happy with certain things, it’s because you didn’t stay on top of them”

***

You do not outsource the directing of 2/3rds of your movie.

977. Keachick (Rose) - May 4, 2014

#974 – Why?

This is where I and many others get or hope to get accurate information about anything made film and/or the people behind the making of such films/TV. It stands for Internet Movie Database (as, I guess, you well know) but it can only be as accurate as the input.

Some people have tried to correct errors contained, sometimes with great success and other times not. I guess it requires honest communication between administrators (I am assuming that there is one actual person running it, at the VERY LEAST) and people like yourself.

What the hell is going on here?
Please – I do not mean to sound rude or anything. It is just that I am somewhat confused, even flabbergasted.

978. Hugh Hoyland - May 4, 2014

Lock and Key is based on a graphic novel I believe.

979. Hugh Hoyland - May 4, 2014

Well why dont we chat board members begin expresing our ideas about what the story of Star Trek 3 should be, including everything and anything that comes to mind. Like we did with STID?

We have the (potential) directors attention at the moment.

980. Hugh Hoyland - May 4, 2014

Well maybe not. lol

First the name. Star Trek Into Darkness is close to the episode titles of the Star Wars movies, “The Empire Strikes Back”, Return of the Jedi”, “A new hope” .

Maybe….”Star Trek the Adventure” , “Star Trek into the Unknown”? Dunno would have to think about that.

981. TonyD - May 4, 2014

I just saw Amazing Spider-Man 2 today, which was co-written and executive produced by Orci and Kurtzman.

Like all their other efforts it is full of derivative, half-formed ideas that ultimately are never resolved, characters with motivations are never properly fleshed out who are just dropped in and out of the plot without any consideration of their overall story arc, and an overall tone that shifts wildly from light to dead serious and back again, never really figuring out what it wants to be.

The whole movie just felt like a bloated, rushed effort to set up another, bigger movie and its stuff like this that makes me wish Orci and Kurtzman would just leave Trek to someone else.

982. Dswynne - May 4, 2014

@963 (Ahmed): stop being such a hater. It’s a fan production that uses elements from ST. Ergo, it’s ST. In fact, if you are a purist, nothing past TOS is ST. Personally, I am satisfied for what it is, and I wish them well. Besides, it’s not like we’re getting anything new from CBS/Paramount these days…

983. Ahmed - May 4, 2014

@982. Dswynne

“Besides, it’s not like we’re getting anything new from CBS/Paramount these days…”

So are we supposed to like anything even when it is a low quality production just because it has the name STAR TREK !!

I watched the opening scene & didn’t like it. There was nothing impressive in that scene, the acting was horrible, the makeup was bad & that big ring was like the Supergate from Stargate series.

If you like crap like that, good for you, have fun & enjoy it.

984. I am not Herbert - May 4, 2014

where’s that strange person who was speaking beep-boop-bop and binary a while back…? who was that guy?? ;-) he was freaky… ;-)

…must be getting bored… =P

(i actually kinda miss MJ) (as trolls go, he wasn’t THAT bad…) =(

985. Disinvited - May 4, 2014

#933. Cygnus-X1 – May 3, 2014

OK, now I’ve already cited the Roddenberry memo which identifies the Russian Cinderella gag as being in a class that tends to run against the philosophy he tried to instill. I argue that in ST6 it not only does that but in concert with the boot gag, also undercuts the supposed anti-racist theme of the movie itself.

Setting aside the inane premise that a crewmember the film identifies as a Navigator, and a senior officer to boot, is personally conducting a crime evidence search instead of assigning the job to a security detail better trained and equipped for such an endeavor, this gag is framed all wrong for the “good humor” that Gene calls for it to have. Chekov wasn’t involved with the team searching that area of the ship where the boots were found. His only reason for being there is acting Captain Spock, instead of having Security locate Dax and question him, decided it would be better to sell tickets to Dax’s interrogation. The end result being that the writer and director have created a situation where it isn’t just good enough for Chekov to serve as the butt of the joke for the theater audience of which he is unaware; no, he must undergo public humiliation in front of the peers with which he serves. The only explanation I have for this setting of the joke, is the director knew it was weak and decided to prop it up. Unfortunately, the end result was to comedically bully the character by having him undergo public humiliation and mortification for being the only one NOT to notice the obvious because he was too preoccupied with the theater of his bellicose Russian chauvinism.

We can’t even attempt to rehabilitate this scene by retconing that it is just the way they conduct suspect apprehensions in the 23rd century, because where were all these season ticket holders when a similar setup of laying in wait for a suspect is used to nab Valeris in sickbay later on? It seems they are only there to ensure Chekov receives a proper drubbing.

I grew up in the Jim Crow South. I’ve seen the pernicious bullying racists employ to humiliate their targets first hand. This joke hewed too close to it for my tastes. Its creators do not seem to be exhibiting a purpose which lovingly elevates the character in good humor, but rather seems orchestrated to take him down a peg. In that, it offended me appearing in an ostensibly anti-racist film.

986. Disinvited - May 4, 2014

#977. Keachick (Rose) – May 4, 2014

While I am not sure if this holds in Bob’s particular circumstance, it has been my observation the movie studios and production companies are far more concerned with their Wikipedia entries than than Imdb.

This may have something to do with the fact that when last I checked the parent company that owns Imdb is Amazon.

987. Jack - May 4, 2014

981. Yep. Devin Faraci summed it up nicely:

That’s the problem with the whole movie – it’s all these pieces that don’t fit together. Electro – who is terrible, by the way – could be removed completely and it would require almost no changes in the film. The two plus hour monstrosity would only get more manageable in length – and you’d lose the set pieces. But that is all Electro exists to do, to give the movie set pieces. It is some of the worst structural writing I have seen in a blockbuster. The film has no central story pulling it forward, and so it feels bloated and lumbering without any direction. Stuff just keeps happening from scene to scene, without any vision or theme tying them together.

But it’s an Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci joint, so what else do you expect? They’re the guys who write scripts as if they’re just adapting note cards on a cork board; they don’t care how they get from note card #1 to note card #2, and so there’s no connective tissue between each scene, and characters do not behave consistently from scene to scene. And that’s just the structure; the film is loaded with thudding dialogue and terrible, painful scenes of exposition. How bad is the exposition? I’m going to paragraph break here so this doesn’t get lost, because this is so bad:

After Spider-Man’s first battle with Electro, where he gets blasted by electricity a lot, the script has a guy – a bystander at the fight! – come on TV and explain that Spider-Man didn’t die because his costume must be rubberized in some way. How do you write a script where that’s how this information is imparted? I couldn’t believe I was watching a professional production.

That isn’t the only bad exposition bit. The film constantly has characters explain the plot and themselves to one another (they have to, because the movie feels like a sequel to a film that isn’t The Amazing Spider-Man half the time. Harry Osborn is suddenly Peter’s best friend, which is why we never heard about him before?). There’s a scene where science genius Peter Parker (remember what a big deal it was reclaiming Pete’s science skills in the reboot?) watches a YouTube video to find out the basic properties of batteries.”

They apparently used the Into Darkness script generator for this one too. Or the Joel Schumacher’s Batman and Robin script generator (please insert the names of as many random villains and threats as possible…). I don’t understand how the studio okayed this script — did they just need a May 2014 blockbuster and, heck, Transformers made money, so… Otherwise, those guys must be geniuses at pitching shit.

988. Jack - May 4, 2014

985. But Chekov’s often been portrayed as an incompetent buffoon, even when Roddenberry was involved.

989. Cygnus-X1 - May 4, 2014

985. Disinvited – May 4, 2014

Sorry, I just don’t get it.

Firstly, I didn’t see GR’s complaint about the boot gag.

Secondly, the purpose of the gag was expository—to show that the boots, as the only piece of evidence which could be linked to the saboteurs, had in fact been stashed into the locker of an innocent crew-man. Chekov is all-confident in his sleuthing until it’s revealed that his confidence has actually been overconfidence. Rookie investigator mistake. Chekov gets taken down a peg for leaping to an incorrect conclusion, for his investigative skills, which clearly need improvement, all of which is totally unrelated to his Russian heritage.

990. Harry Ballz - May 4, 2014

Bob, is the next movie going to be one for the ages, a classic story for the 50th anniversary of Trek, or is it more likely just going to be a rehash of STID?

I’d like to think that if you are pushing to direct it, even YOU think it’s good.

991. Disinvited - May 5, 2014

#989. Cygnus-X1 – May 4, 2014

Sorry, but I just don’t get from the film your position that Chekov was somehow the lead rookie investigator, in the case. Valeris was there supervising the search (not Chekov) and she was the one that confirmed that they were indeed active gravity boots. Chekov also wasn’t there when Scotty found the uniforms, nor was he actively investigating the case when they accidentally stumbled across the dead bodies said uniforms belonged to with Scotty getting all the expository dialogue, and Chekov wasn’t in sickbay for the big reveal, either.

How do you account for the disparity that the exposition for boot evidence requires at least 17 crewmembers (many who were not present during the search) be present contaminating a crime scene for an interrogation and the uniforms only 5, while the exposition revealing the mastermind only three?

And if Scotty earns the expository right to dialogue by dint of his finding the uniforms even though Chekov was present in that dialogue scene, then Valeris should not have been shoved aside from the exposition which she started on the boots just so the writer and director could take a shot at Chekov.

Besides, if the joke only required Chekov to fill the role as just a generic officer as you suggested in an earlier post then Valeris would have been just as funny as the rookie taking it on the nose.

992. Disinvited - May 5, 2014

#989. Cygnus-X1 – May 4, 2014

Re: Memo

See my message now numbered 923.

993. Cygnus-X1 - May 5, 2014

991. Disinvited – May 5, 2014

Sorry, but I just don’t get from the film your position that Chekov was somehow the lead rookie investigator, in the case. Valeris was there supervising the search (not Chekov) and she was the one that…
How do you account for the disparity that the exposition for boot evidence requires at least 17 crewmembers (many who were not present during the search) be present contaminating a crime scene for an interrogation and the uniforms only 5….

The whole “search for the missing boots” sequences was obviously not intended to be a faithful, accurate portrayal of how such an activity would be executed on a large ship like the Enterprise. It was just a quickly put-together sequence for purpose of showing us that the boots could not be linked to the saboteurs, and with a little comic relief via Chekov along the way. We were never shown the orders being given out for the search, nor how the search was to be carried out, nor any other detail relating to the logistics of the search. We don’t know how it actually was conducted, and we don’t really care. We get the relevant bit of info relating to the boots accompanied by a little visual gag via the alien crewmember and Chekov the would-be super-sleuth, and then it’s on to the next scene. Why was Chekov the one to draw the wrong conclusion pertaining to the ownership of the boots? Maybe Chekov saw all of the evidence after it was turned in and reported, made the incorrect deduction, and wanted to be the one to announce the solution to the mystery. The fact is that, since nothing was said nor implied about why Chekov was the one to make the announcement, we are not meant to assume anything about it, other than perhaps that Chekov was always a light-hearted character used for comic relief (and for love scenes once or twice) going back to TOS. The reasons for that decision relate to what the producers thought that Walter Konig would best contribute to the group dynamic, and also to his relative youth. He’s got a hilarious scene in STIV, when he’s being interrogated by the Navy officers using present-day colloquialisms which Chekov is taking literally. “You play games with me, mister, and you’re through!” “I am? Can I go now?” Spock also has hilarious scenes in STIV, but his are due to him being out of sorts and naive from his re-birth.

994. Cygnus-X1 - May 5, 2014

992. Disinvited – May 5, 2014

I’d seen the GR memo re: Chekov that you posted. But that was dated 1968 and was not in response to any scenes STVI.

995. Mad Mann - May 5, 2014

Just throwing this out there: Captain Sulu TV series starring John Cho.
Cheif medical officer: Dr. Christine Chapel. Navigator Lt. Janice Rand.

It’d be nice to premier in 2016. Maybe on A&E?

996. Oscar - May 5, 2014

969.
Do you want facts?
OK. 1. STID deficit in USA was a huge deficit.That is a fact.
Because of this ,star trek 2016 one year later has not release date, plot, director or title…nothing.
2.STID was a epic creative fail.A vast majority of fans are furious because of this.
If this was enough to dismiss Berman, this should be enough to dismiss Roberto Orci.

997. Bamasi - May 5, 2014

996.

Berman had a number of strike-outs. While STID was certainly no home-run creatively or artistically, it was definitely not a strike-out.

I say let them learn from their mistakes and their successes and see what 2016 brings us.

They’re the only team in place to give us a Trek movie in the next 4 years.

998. Disinvited - May 5, 2014

#994. Cygnus-X1 – May 5, 2014

Well, it does for me as somewhere along the line someone decided to preface the gag with the Russian chauvinism bit that Roddenberry cautions about there.

It’s not even in the script available online (5th revision). It refers to Cinderella as a “Romulan epic” which gives me cause to wonder if this was the case of yet another line written for another character being reassigned to Chekov?

999. Oscar - May 5, 2014

997
Berman was the main producer in the golden age of star trek era…A couple of mistakes and he was dismissed…Orci has not so good record…in fact, only two films. And the second was a mess. And the first an overrated film, as usually with Abrams movies…and Berman tv shows earn money ten years or more after its cancellation, dvd blue disc, novels and comic books…
If Berman did not deserve a new chance, Orci does not deserve a new chance.
Orci’s first spiderman film as producer and writer and first rotten tomato and first B+ CinemaScope for a spidey movie…Orci’s brand mark.

1000. Anthony Thompson - May 5, 2014

1000!!!

Bob, when Paramount (or anyone else in authority) says they’re “thinking about it”, that means ‘No’. Unfortunately.

1001. Phil - May 5, 2014

@996
1. Budget – 190MM. Box office – 467MM. Sorry, any way you look at it, its a money maker.

2. I’m the first to admit that the STID story wasn’t the producers best effort, but how do you quantify ‘creative epic fail’? Gee, we appreciate the STID was the highest grossing Trek movie ever, but because it didn’t win an Oscar, or score 90% on Rotten Tomatoes, I’m afraid we are going to have to let you go. Not. By your criteria, buddy, MOST movies are going to be creative epic fails. Hate to break it to you, but most studios are in business to make money, not create artsy fartsy art films that never make a dime. And I’ll point this out, only because it’s going to irritate the hell out of you, Sony had some substantial expensive duds last year. They needed ASM2 to do well, and Bob delivered. It was creative enough to get people into the theaters, just like STID was, and it will make money, just like STID did. That makes it a success.

This is getting old. Haters gotta hate, I suppose.

1002. Bamasi - May 5, 2014

1001

Please remember that Paramount only gets back 50% of the domestic box office and significantly less than 50% of oversees box office.

1003. Who cares - May 5, 2014

@Oscar. If you claim these ridiculous statements of yours to be facts then please present the empirical evidence of them. You claim STID did much worse domestically than ST09, when the actual domestic numbers are less than 20 million apart, when your dealing with almost 500 million worldwide 20 million is not big, especially when the movie more than made up for internationally while posting the strongest international box office in Trek history. Those are actually verifiable facts.

You then claim that a “vast majority” of fans hate STID, so prove it, post a link to a scientifically valid survey of Trek fans which shows this. This automatically disqualifies that so called vote from the convention last summer which was 100 hand picked people out of 12000 attending the convention. That is not a valid survey by any definition. If you show me a survey, from a neutral source, of 12000 out of 12000 people then I will accept that as a valid sample, still a very small one compared to total number of Trek fans which increases the margin for error, but still a valid sample.

Until you present some empirical evidence supporting your “facts” you are just stating opinions like anyone else.

1004. LogicalLeopard - May 5, 2014

I’m just wondering how a “vast majority” of fans are “furious” when even the polls on this site when it first came out held that most poll responders rated it at good or above, as I remember. And that’s despite all the whining we hear about the movie in these forums…..

I mean, everyone has their opinion, but it seems that some people latch onto ONE main thing they didn’t like, and let it overshadow the movie. *coughKhancough*

1005. Oscar - May 5, 2014

1001.
Wrong answer. Total budget= production+ marketing. 190+ 50=240 millions.
Box office=228 millions in USA. It means. – 22 millions. And you must pay theaters and taxes…a huge deficit in USA.
Abroad you must pay theaters, taxes, (in Europe Union 21% ) distributor…
1004.
«The polls on this site…», this is not the only treksite. In the vast majority of treksites people said STID was a mess. Do you want a list?

1006. Dswynne - May 5, 2014

@963 (Ahmed): I am saying that I can separate a professional production from an amateur one. It’s called having a proper perspective. And we only have a snippet of the actual film, not the whole thing to make a valid critique. If this was coming from CBS/Paramount, then your criticism would be valid to make, since I wouldn’t want a ST series to have the film production of Babylon 5. And besides, why even mention ‘Horizon’ if you don’t like it?

1007. Finnegan - May 5, 2014

I am not sorry to see this break-up. Their “work” on STID was awful. A terrible script. Of course you also have to pin blame on Damon Lindelof, you remember him, he also ruined Prometheus.

1008. TREKWEBMASTER - May 5, 2014

Fascinating…

I for one believe that Bob Orci should direct the third film. He’s been there and here, also. I can dig it. I GROK this idea…lol.

Would be a good move IMO…

1009. Ahmed - May 5, 2014

@1006. Dswynne

“And we only have a snippet of the actual film, not the whole thing to make a valid critique. ”

Well, true but I was talking about the opening scene only, not the whole film. Just as we did here on trekmovie with STID opening scene when it was released in IMAX

“And besides, why even mention ‘Horizon’ if you don’t like it?”

I watched the trailer when it came out last March & it was interesting. That why I watched the opening scene & as I mentioned, I wasn’t impressed by it.

I will watch the film when it come out & hopefully it will be a lot better.

1010. Oscar - May 5, 2014

1003.
Las Vegas convention 2013 «STID worst trek film ever»
TrekCore forums. A huge number of fans said it was garbage
Ex astris scientia, the most important European trek site . Same thing.
David Mack, Dayton Ward, star trek best seller authors crashed STID in his websites. Keith R. A. de Candido, very important star trek novelist, «funny movie but mediocre trek», Soul of STAR TREK Web site, Bob Greenberger, Glenn Greenberg, io9.com, breitbart.com. etc etc etc So, the most important conventions, websites, authors and experts said STID was a piece of…
Roberto Orci could not accept this avalanche of critics and he insulted fans and critics in this very site…

1011. star trackie - May 5, 2014

#969 “.STID was a epic creative fail. A vast majority of fans are furious because of this.
If this was enough to dismiss Berman, this should be enough to dismiss Roberto Orci.”

Oscar, you’ve become delusional. Get out of the sun quick before you have a heatstroke!

1012. Elias Javalis - May 5, 2014

1009,

Proves nothing,

Novels – Not Canon (who reads Star Trek Novels anyway),
Web Sites – I can create a Site and bubble all the way, so all the Sites above are nullified.
Conventions – Even more bubbling and trashing, as Shatner would say, they should get a Life, for real!

1013. Marja - May 5, 2014

Oscar, that convention vote has been discussed here again and again on several major threads since that Las Vegas Con.

About 1000 people convened for a panel hosted by a very opinionated AUTrek-hater. He took a “raise your hand” vote, and the list of projects was every Star Trek film … plus, oddly, “Galaxy Quest.” Now Trek fans love some Galaxy Quest, but that movie was totally irrelevant to a discussion of TREK films.

In short the results weren’t even written, were gleefully reported on the host’s NuTrek-hater website, and they were also trumpeted thru the “news” and entertainment site media, which report things without any research [thus, without validity] these days.

Haters gonna hate, and some do have valid critiques, well-grounded critiques concerning the writing in the films. But until you can ground your critique in something other than emotion, I’m giving you the skeptical raised Spockbrow.

1014. Keachick (Rose) - May 5, 2014

#1009 – “Roberto Orci could not accept this avalanche of critics and he insulted fans and critics in this very site…”

You talk about “facts” and yet you attempt to deceive those new to this site about who insulted who and why “in this very site”.

If you are referring to the incident, which shall not be named, that took place between ONE (1) poster and Bob Orci, then this is hardly Bob Orci insulting “fans and critics in this very site”. I was one of those “fans” at the time and Bob Orci did not insult me nor did he call anyone else a bad word, just this ONE poster. This ONE poster is not representative of “fans and critics”. He is like me, as in representative of himself and himself alone.

If memory serves, it was actually this ONE poster who was continually twisting/distorting discussion and was insulting to Bob Orci…finally Bob Orci replied in kind. Soon after Bob Orci apologized here “in this very site” for responding with anger and for using language that is generally considered unacceptable.

Now – these are the facts!

1015. I am not Herbert - May 5, 2014

FACT: nu-trek sucks. =(

…sycophantic polarized defenders just gonna defend, i guess… ;-)

1016. Mike Barnett - May 5, 2014

1009. Oscar

LOL! Nice try.

1017. Keachick (Rose) - May 5, 2014

#1014
“sycophantic
ˌsɪkəˈfantɪk/
adjective
adjective: sycophantic
behaving or done in an obsequious way in order to gain advantage.
“a sycophantic interview”
synonyms: obsequious, servile, subservient, deferential, grovelling, toadying, fawning, flattering, ingratiating, cringing, unctuous, oily, slimy, creeping, crawling, truckling, slavish, bowing and scraping, Uriah Heepish, gushing; More
informalbootlicking, smarmy;
vulgar slangarse-licking, arse-kissing, brown-nosing;
vulgar slangsuckholing”

So this is how you see my posts and the posts of others like Marja’s onto this site as being? All this is because many of us say that nu-trek does not suck, but that does not necessarily make it perfect either.

If only this site had an Ignore option…:(
Go away, I am not Herbert and take your poisonous mindset with you!

1018. Keachick (Rose) - May 5, 2014

Stop using smile emoticons to try to cover for your often less than agreeable wording, I am not Herbert. It makes what you say sometimes even more stupid and/or insulting/disgusting.

1019. boborci - May 5, 2014

1013

ome more fact. I have posted here humdreds of not a thousand times. comservativley speaking, about one percent pf my posts were of the kind.

1020. Ahmed - May 5, 2014

@1013. Keachick (Rose)

“If you are referring to the incident, which shall not be named, that took place between ONE (1) poster and Bob Orci, then this is hardly Bob Orci insulting “fans and critics in this very site”. I was one of those “fans” at the time and Bob Orci did not insult me nor did he call anyone else a bad word, just this ONE poster.”

In his first comment, Bob attacked Joseph Dickerson, the writer of that article, for the opinion expressed in the article:

======================
310. boborci – September 2, 2013

I think the article above is akin to a child acting out against his parents.(sic) Having said that, two biggest Star Treks in a row with best reviews is hardly a description of “broken.” And frankly, your tone and attidude make it hard for me to listen to what might otherwise be decent notions to pursue in the future. Sorry, Joseph. As I love to say, there is a reason why I get to write the movies, and you don’t.
======================

Then the so called incident between Bob & I, after that, he came back & posted this:

======================
398. boborci – September 2, 2013

don’ take me too seriously. if you’ve been on this board for the lar 5 years (as I have beeb) you know that twice a year I explode at the morons. today, there seemed to be a congregation, so it seemed like a good time.

======================

So it was hardly between Bob & ONE poster as you keep saying. Next time you want to talk about facts, then provide ACTUAL FACTS, not how you imagined it.

1021. Ahmed - May 5, 2014

@1018. boborci

We keep going back to old history here for the lack of any news about ST 3, can you tell us anything at all about the movie?

1022. Keachick (Rose) - May 5, 2014

I have not paid attention to TASM films, however I just watched the TASM2 trailer. Boy – talk about over the top to the point of silliness and grossness…sigh…

One of the NZ Herald reviewers gave this latest TASM outing a three stars out of five (3/5), saying something like it was too generic and disjointed in places. Jack Ryan – Shadow Recruit also received 3/5 stars for slightly different reasons, one of which I disagree with.

However, both BR Star Trek movies have consistently received 4/5 stars.

1023. Keachick (Rose) - May 5, 2014

#1019 – As I said, Bob decided to finally respond in kind…:(

1024. Phil - May 5, 2014

Well, as Matt tends to shut threads down when they hit 1100 comments, may I suggest we use our remaining time constructively? Most folks recognize that Bob, not having directed before, is going to have to overcome that objection if he want the directors job. Most folks also recognize that with a two decades long resume producing and writing successful shows and movies, and being an advocate for the franchise, that that’s a powerful argument in his favor.

Look, when someone argues for the sake of argument, ignores foreign box office in attempt to make an argument out of nothing, lambasts fans for not embracing fake Trek science while promoting junk science, or suddenly declares that their personal dislike of the man means there is ‘vast’ anger in the fan universe, lets face it, they are speaking for themselves. Further, there isn’t anything we can do to dissuade them otherwise – they may actually think that Paramount is taking notice, when, in fact, they are only preaching to their particular choir. Whiners, if you want to be taken seriously, at least use complete sentences.

http://whatculture.com/film/star-trek-3-plot-10-moral-dilemmas-show-resurrected.php

As some people are understanding that the third movie WILL be made, that Bad Robot WILL be the production company, there has been some exploration of possible themes for the next outing. Comments, anyone? Which moral dilemma would you like to see addressed?

1025. Disinvited - May 5, 2014

#988. Jack – May 4, 2014

That’s not the the way the character’s trajectory started in the motion pictures. It wasn’t until STIV under Nimoy’s direction that Leonard transformed him into a comic stooge. And to no surprise, Nimoy contributed the story to ST6 and was responsible for requesting and getting line changes in the script so that we can safely assume he, again, is ultimately responsible for Chekov’s comedic stooge role there.

1026. Disinvited - May 5, 2014

#1018. boborci – May 5, 2014

I’m curious as to what techniques you employed in putting ROBERTO ORCI’S PRODUCTION DIARY together and what you think you took away form it?

1027. crazydaystrom - May 5, 2014

Oscar and I am not Herbert –

I too was not satisfied with STiD and stated so here and elsewhere but I really don’t understand why you guys seem to have to hammer your dislike for the film into the ground and still continue to do so the point where it’s almost as if you’re having psychotic fits about it. That horse is dead and pulverized. I’m not questioning your sanity guys but you’ve made your point. Why go on and on and on about it? I also don’t think Bob Orci would be the best choice as director and have stated that as well. But I do know the decision will be made without any regard to my feelings on the matter. And I know that I could be wrong and that it’s not impossible that Bob could deliver the best of the nuTrek films. I’ve taken the attitude of wait and see. Whoever gets the job, I’m wishing him or her the best and keeping my fingers crossed we’ll get some good and satisfying Trek….IN 2016 hopefully! Perhaps even something great and special for the 50th.

Great would be a fine Trek movie AND a television show, or at least an announcement of one. And special would be a walk-on role for me. No, a speaking role…as a captain….of a ship that’s destroyed…and I get a great and noble death scene like Chris Hemsworth did in ST09! You see, I have these Star Trek dreams…

;-)

1028. boborci - May 5, 2014

1019

still represents .1 percent of interactions.

1029. Keachick (Rose) - May 5, 2014

OK, Ahmed – I see that I did not present all the facts pertaining to that incident, however the part that made it into the media and received general public comment was where Bob Orci responded to your posts and told you to….. words which shall not written. It was then that “every man and his dog” came here or commented elsewhere about Bob Orci insulting fans and critics, left, right and centre – completely inaccurate picture and assumptions that were way off.

Joseph Dickerson’s article not only riled Bob Orci but others as well, as in calling Star Trek “broken” and that the BR team were responsible. It was and is crap. The entire article and the comments that followed were controversial in nature, with or without Bob’s contribution.

The words written at or about Bob Orci have often been anything but kind or courteous. In fact, some people have been downright horrible towards him (and others of the Supreme Court), in the same way that I am not Herbert was rude to some posters by referring to them as being “sycophantic”. Pretty nasty, especially when you find out just what the word can mean.

It is unfortunate that Oscar brought up the whole incident without actually knowing (or acknowledging) the circumstances that lead to Bob Orci’s infamous pronouncement(s) on this site.

Two posters need to leave and only come back when they are able to have a more balanced perspective on stuff in general – I am not Herbert and Oscar. Right now, you are being “trouble makers”. There, I’ve said it!

1030. boborci - May 5, 2014

1025

Just shot it on the flyon video. Purposewas to transparent about the process for anyone who is curiois. What did I get out of it? just fun.

1031. Ahmed - May 5, 2014

@1028. Keachick (Rose)

I think that we all need to move on from that issue & focus on ST 3.

Bob is here now, so it is a good time to ask him questions about the production.

1032. Ahmed - May 5, 2014

@ 1027. boborci – May 5, 2014

“still represents .1 percent of interactions.”

Indeed.

1033. Ahmed - May 5, 2014

@1025. Disinvited

Guess that you were right after all :)

1034. Ahmed - May 5, 2014

======================
Russian President Vladimir Putin has signed a law banning all swearing in films, television broadcasts, theatres and the media.

Offenders will face fines – as much as 50,000 roubles (£829; $1,400) for organisations, or up to 2,500 roubles (£41; $70) for individuals.

Where disputes arise a panel of experts will decide exactly what counts as a swear word.

Books containing swear words will have to carry warnings on the cover.

Russia’s Vesti news website says that, according to sociologists’ research, swearing is common in two-thirds of Russian companies.

The law will take effect from 1 July and will not apply to cases of swearing at performances before that date.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27286742
======================

You gotta be f**king kidding!

1035. Phil - May 5, 2014

@1033. Next thing you know, they’ll ban vodka. Those bastards!

1036. Phil - May 5, 2014

@1028. Well, Oscar seems to be blaming Bob for Crimea, the California drought, capsized Korean ferries, and Targets computer security breach. There isn’t a ton of objectivity there….

1037. Cygnus-X1 - May 5, 2014

1019. Ahmed – May 5, 2014

So it was hardly between Bob & ONE poster as you keep saying. Next time you want to talk about facts, then provide ACTUAL FACTS, not how you imagined it.

There were a few more on Twitter addressed to different people.

One of them included, “FUCK OFF!”…which I always thought was great.

I didn’t begrudge Bob Orci losing his temper and lambasting fans, per se, but it’s not good that he reacted that way instead of admitting the validity of criticism about his work. That quip about “best reviews” and so on is a good example. Anyone who reads the critical reviews of STID at Rotten Tomatoes sees plenty of criticism specifically about the writing. The overwhelmingly positive portion of the reviews was in regard to JJ’s directing, the movie being a visually titillating thrill-ride and so forth.

The bit that I did mind was when Bob announced here that “the biggest deterrent to general audiences seeing a Trek movie is Trekkies, themselves!”

I don’t know what the point of that was supposed to be. To shut us up and stop us complaining? We already had JJ Abrams telling us repeatedly since day 1 that the BR Trek movies are not being made with Trekkies in mind, which I always found rather off-putting. And then Bob’s comment about Trekkies being bad for business seemed even further alienating and adding insult to injury.

I’m extremely dissatisfied with the BR Trek movies, but dammit, I’m reserving my right to complain about them!

And, 1023. Phil – May 5, 2014

I do not appreciate your attempt to dismiss those who’d rather someone else direct Br Trek 3 as unconstructive “whiners.” There really is no shortage of good reasons—business-wise, Trek-wise and film-wise—to prefer another director, and many of those reasons have been discussed here in rational detail.

On the contrary, I have a hard time seeing why, out of the set of talented, experienced directors with resumes VASTLY more impressive than Bob Orci’s, it should be a good idea or a good business decision to give the job to Orci. The fact is that Orci is not coming off a great job on STID. The critical reviews regarding the writing were largely unfavorable. And look at the list of movies that Orci has been involved with. Finding an experienced director with a better resume than Orci’s wouldn’t be too hard. You want Orci for some reason and that’s fine. You’re entitled to your own personal taste. But that’s all it is—your taste.

1038. Keachick (Rose) - May 5, 2014

Well, ST09 has “bullshit” and STID has “son of a bitch” twice. I wonder how both movies will fare under the new Russian laws…

Could Putin be a “closet gay swearer”? He could probably teach us all a thing or two about some super swearing big time. What a prat! He is coming off as something of a bloody bully, what with this and his targeting of homosexuals and their families at the Winter Olympics. What a f**king, load of bullshit, real damned son of a bitch crap a-hole stuff…

Howzat Putin?

1039. Ahmed - May 5, 2014

@1034. Phil

“Next thing you know, they’ll ban vodka. Those bastards!”

LOL

1040. Ahmed - May 5, 2014

Star Trek Into Darkness coming to US Netflix on May 17

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/02/showbiz/movies/netflix-amazon-prime-streaming-movies-may/

1041. I am not Herbert - May 5, 2014

…here’s a REAL movie: Flying Swords of Dragon Gate (Long men fei jia)

http://www.netflix.com/WiMovie/70232006?strkid=872986731_0_0&trkid=222336&movieid=70232006

you’re welcome… ;-)

1042. P Technobabble - May 5, 2014

There have been plenty of “experienced” directors who’ve given us 2 hours of rubbish. Tim Burton’s “Planet Of The Apes.” Ridley Scott’s “G.I.Jane.” Just to name a couple.

First time directors who made great movies: Frank Darabont “The Shawshank Redemption.” Neill Blomkamp “District 9.” Just to name a couple.

I don’t think anyone should make black and white statements like “such and such a film will be great cos Ridley Scott’s directing it,” or “Star Trek 3 will suck because Bob Orci’s directing it.” Such statements are ludicrous. Every director who’s ever directed a movie started at movie #1, hmm? I’m pretty sure none of them ever came out of the gate saying, “I’m intend to do a crappy job on this film.” I have no doubt that if Bob Orci directs this film he will put his heart, soul and every drop of blood, sweat & tears into it.
Too bad some of you guys are only happy when you’re taking swipes at someone… overdosing on jealousy?

1043. Keachick (Rose) - May 5, 2014

Too true, Ahmed. Best forgotten – I did not like the fact that Oscar brought up this incident – not good.

I have given my view on what could form something of a moral dilemma for Kirk and crew in the next film. This was hinted at with the Nibiru incident at the beginning of STID, but got brushed over in the film and with most viewers.

The notion of where and when technology should be used, how much and what kind could be explored in more depth in the next film.

I guess my own story outline that relates to Kirk/Enterprise’s discovery of Menosia is something I would like to see on film. Menosia appears to be a world that is pre-industrial, in terms of how we understand technological advances, however some of the species indigenous to this world can quite naturally leave their world and traverse space.

Although Starfleet may have the Prime Directive, do all UFP members understand and follow the same directive? I am not sure. What if some do not? What then?

Prime Directive as is understood and just explained by my better half – “It is more like the Hippocratic Oath as in “Above all, do no harm”. Re the Nibiru incident – following the Prime Directive to the letter as opposed to the spirit would have caused greater harm in that much of the planet and its would have been destroyed.
Kirk and co. decided to follow the Spirit of the Prime Directive in that the lesser harm done came with the possibility of some of the Nibiruns seeing the space ship briefly. Having the technology which could render the volcano inert meant that Kirk and co. felt morally obliged to use the technology in order to try to save those people and their world. To not do so would have gone against their consciences.

Had they not had the technology, this particular moral dilemma would not have arisen and the only choice the Enterprise would have had was to stay safely at a distance and watch the demise of this world – or not. But they did have the technology…

1044. Disinvited - May 5, 2014

#1037. Cygnus-X1 – May 5, 2014

To be fair to Phil, I think he’s been rather clear that he’s ambivalent at best about Bob directing. He’s sole note has only been that Bob is qualified to apply for the job, not that he beats all comers.

1045. Ahmed - May 5, 2014

@1038. Keachick (Rose)

“Howzat Putin?”

Careful there, you are addressing the Russian Tsar ;)

1046. dswynne - May 5, 2014

@1009 (Ahmed): Thank you for understanding me. Trust me, I am not so blind as to ignore the flaws of fan production. In fact, most fan productions are not good, in quality, at all, and the ones that I’ve liked in past (such as one or two of “Phase II” stuff) don’t hold up at all, mainly because newer fan productions have gotten better. But, in the end, I appreciate all of them because they’re simply love letters by fans who appreciate the importance of “Star Trek” in their lives.

And if “Horizon” doesn’t hold up to my expectations, I will eat my words. ;-)

1047. Jonboc - May 5, 2014

#1037 “I do not appreciate your attempt to dismiss those who’d rather someone else direct Br Trek 3 as unconstructive “whiners.””

By the same token, I do.

I choose to be constructive rather than de-constructive, therefore the repeated crying, by the spoiled children who are not getting their way, grows tiresome. And the sad reality is, these tantrums and the snarky schoolyard commentary, will continue until the next movie is released and beyond. The tear-it-downers will continue, regardless of how well the next film is recieved or who is chosen to direct….it’s just what they do.

1048. Marja - May 5, 2014

So Bob, if you’re around, please ignore the haters of the Spock and Uhura relationship. I mean the HATERS — the people who go ballistic about it and attack the new Uhura, saying she’s not representing feminism. [whut?] I’m a feminist and I like her just fine ….

…. I have no problem with Uhura “c*ck-blocking” Spock from Kirk, in other words.

Through both Bad Robot Trek films, I think the entire screen time “taken by the relationship” has been maybe five minutes? And “Uhura took time away from McCoy” is completely ridiculous. Although many of us do want to see more of McCoy than bitter quips here and there, I think screen time can be split among our dear characters, showing them in traditional discussions and arguments we so treasure from TOS.

One of the best moments in STiD was the discussion on the bridge that led McCoy to say, “don’t agree with me, Spock, it makes me very uncomfortable.” And Kirk asking Spock when he was going to tell him about Carol Marcus … “When it became relevant …!” Vulcans! Puckish, aren’t they.

1049. Vultan - May 5, 2014

#1037

Well put. What’s most grating is those who don’t seem to be able to construct a reasoned counterargument to criticisms of films and simply label someone a whiner, a hater, or a child or tell them to F*** OFF.

That’s lazy thinking. Pithy but lazy.

1050. Basement Blogger - May 5, 2014

I don’t have any problem with Bob Orci wanting to be director of the next Star Trek. Remember he’s one of us, he knows and loves Star Trek. You won’t hear him say that Star Trek was too talky. I’ve always wanted him to run the franchise as Star Trek czar, uniting the film and television sides to give a rebirth to the franchise on television and popular culture.

I do believe Bob can direct. After all, he’s written some of the major blockbusters of the last few years. And you can’t have a good movie without a good screenplay. He’s produced movie and television. So, while it would be a rookie outing for him, he understands what works and what doesn’t.

If he directs, I hope he’s learned from those around him. Specifically, please curb the camera gymnastics and the fast cutting.. Alex Kurtzman’s direction in “People Like Us” was needlessly busy in the camera movements. That family drama was interesting enough without treating the first forty five minutes like an action movie. In “Super 8″, J.J. messes up two scenes because he could not leave them alone. One, the son confronts the father about his girlfriend. Hand-held camera not needed.for this important scene. Then as the alien is wrecking havoc in the town, for some reason he moves the camera around the young heroes in a way that Brian De Palma made famous. Not needed to heighten the tension. Just remember “12 Years a Slave.” There were scenes in which the camera did not move but the director Steve McQueen let the action in the scene speak for its self.

Don’t let the film editor control action scenes. I’m getting tired of fast cutting that makes little sense. In “Gravity” director Alfonso Cuaron has many long shots that would drive J.J. nuts. And thank you to the Academy for awarding that film the Editing Oscar.

And finally to Bob Orci,

Bravo for your work on The Amazing Spider-Man 2. Specifically I found the romance between Peter Parker and Gwen Stacy enthralling. Left the theater thinking about them. You set up the conflicts, wrote the dialogue. That helped create the chemistry between the actors. Yes, the detractors will say the actors Andrew Garfield and Emma Stone are a couple but they’ve got to have things to say. Parker and Stacy or Garfield and Stone were electric. It’s wonderful romance and deserves an A grade.

1051. dmduncan - May 5, 2014

1050. Basement Blogger – May 5, 2014

Bravo for your work on The Amazing Spider-Man 2. Specifically I found the romance between Peter Parker and Gwen Stacy enthralling. Left the theater thinking about them.

***

Me too. There’s a small touching movie inside of a giant action epic.

1052. Jonboc - May 5, 2014

1049 “Well put. What’s most grating is those who don’t seem to be able to construct a reasoned counterargument to criticisms of films and simply label someone a whiner, a hater, or a child or tell them to F*** OFF.

That’s lazy thinking. Pithy but lazy.”

Hardly. If you tell me, for the 50th time, that you think my cake sucks…and, regardless of other reactions to the contrary, you still insist, 20 more times, that it sucks…I could recite the recipe, I could give you the opinion of 10 top chefs who love it, even show you a taste test where people liked it more than your favorite cake….but you would never budge from your opinion. At that point I could continue to argue… try and convince you that my cake is good…but that would be a fool’s game. There is a point where counter-arguments mean nothing. I have reached that point with the same handful of tear-it-downers that haunt this site. I don’t want to debate anymore in a fool’s game. That’ s time wasted that I don’t have. . From now on, with this particular argument, about Bob wanting to direct…when I hear the same complaint from the same posters…all I’m hearing is the rumblings of a child throwing a tantrum or slinging insults because that is all they know how to do. The “debates” we’re over a long time ago.

1053. dmduncan - May 5, 2014

From the moment Devin Faraci hears Bob and Alex have signed to a new project the guy begins grinding his axe.

1054. Keachick (Rose) - May 5, 2014

I’ve not been particularly aware of fast cutting or needless camera movements in People Like Us. However, when it came to the two Star Treks, yes, some cuts seemed fast – I wondered why so much hurry? what – too hyped up on caffeine or something?

I can understand where fast cutting can be appropriate in order to give the audience the illusion of that there is really no time to waste as in the minute/the seconds between still being alive and not, but this was simply not what most of the story was about.

Things take a certain amount of time – going at maximum warp speed can make the trip to Vulcan (ST) or Kronos (STID) quicker, but there is still time – more than three minutes in either case, but this was not the illusion created by the film makers.

I hated the fast cut made to the scene where Kirk is in bed with the cat ladies, hears his ‘phone’ ring, crawls out from the under the covers and throws himself over the bed to answer – CUT – he is walking with Spock speculating on why Pike has asked to see them both. That fast cut was bad for so many reasons, Bob Orci and I have explained why previously.

Please, please note – do not treat any other of Jim Kirk’s friends/lovers in such a rude and dismissive manner. It reflects BADLY on EVERYONE – Kirk, the female(s), but MORE SO on the writer/director of such scene.

Marja – We need to define what being a feminist means first…LOL Given the previous discussions/debates had between the females who post here, well, it has become that what some may see as going against feminism is not agreed upon other women who take a different, yet we all claim that we are feminists…sigh…oh dear….

I have already written how Dr McCoy could have had more screen time doing what doctors do, by cutting down on the time spent on the boring chase and fight scene between Spock and Khan. It would be a much more relevant scene, since my understanding has always been that Star Trek has been about the main characters, what they understand and how they cope with whatever comes their way, either as individuals or as a group of people. The Khans, the Marcus’s are the “nobodies” – these characters are the subservient ones.

Let’s not forget that! – @ writers Orci, Payne and McKay.

1055. Vultan - May 5, 2014

#1052

Of course, you realize you’re throwing a bit of a tantrum yourself… about the tantrums… uh… so… how much valuable time did you just waste explaining your rationale for rude behavior, lowering yourself to the level of bug spray? Two wrongs make a right? Come on, you can do better. We all can. Everyone here can express their opinion (no matter how many times repeated) without name calling.

Just takes effort. And tolerance. All that stuff some show sci-fi show in the ’60s was crazy about.

1056. Curious Cadet - May 5, 2014

@1050. Basement Blogger,
“I don’t have any problem with Bob Orci wanting to be director of the next Star Trek.”

‘But … since you have zero experience doing it, here’s a laundry list of all the things I don’t want you to do as a director … which I’m qualified to impart to you because I have just as much experience …’

That’s rich!

1057. Keachick (Rose) - May 5, 2014

Excuse me, while I edit my own post…doh…:(
“…well, it has become that…” should read, “…well, it has become CLEAR that…”
“…not agreed upon other women who take a different, yet…” should read, “…not agreed upon BY other women who take a different VIEW, yet…”

…Sigh…

1058. Ahmed - May 5, 2014

@1056. Curious Cadet

” “I don’t have any problem with Bob Orci wanting to be director of the next Star Trek.”

‘But … since you have zero experience doing it, here’s a laundry list of all the things I don’t want you to do as a director … which I’m qualified to impart to you because I have just as much experience …’

That’s rich!”

LOL

1059. Keachick (Rose) - May 5, 2014

#1055 – “how much valuable time did you just waste explaining your rationale for rude behavior, lowering yourself to the level of bug spray?”

Excuse me. He was not being rude. The fact is that at some time or other all of us supposed adults will behave as if they were small children throwing a tantrum and nobody is immune from being this way at times. This is the more negative, less developed side that our inner child can be, being expressed.

He did not lower himself to the “level of bug spray”. You did that.

We all need the inner child because this aspect is also what gives us a sense of wonder, excitement, optimism, allowing us to be open and hopeful and generous.

“Let the little children come to me; do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God” (Jesus in Mark 10:14).”

I believe that what I wrote above here is one of the ways in which these words can be credibly interpreted.

1060. Keachick (Rose) - May 5, 2014

The way in which posters like Oscar have behaved does remind me of my own daughter’s (soon to be 12) recent behaviour. She announced that she no longer likes homemade pizza and for me not to buy any more of the ingredients when I do the weekly grocery shopping. She is very insistent. When I said that others in the family actually still liked eating the pizzas, she still insisted that I do not get the pizza ingredients. This was even after I told her that she did not have to eat any of the pizza.

Her bitching behaviour has actually been agreeable than much of what has been expressed re not liking STID etc over and over and over, even though Oscar and others are not being forced to “eat the pizza”, “have the cake,”ie watch these movies but still they grumble, just like my daughter continued to grumble. As you can imagine, it does get tiresome and nerve wracking after a while if this goes on and on, finally provoking an angry response from those of us who like our homemade pizza and have repeatedly told the child that she do not have to eat it – or
in similar situation, watch the BR Star Trek movies.

1061. Buzz Cagney - May 5, 2014

#1060 But what if you normally like pizza and just bemoan the poor quality of the most recent pizza that you’ve had?
You surely should be allowed to say that you really didn’t like that pizza. In fact it may well have put me right off pizza all together?.
I’d like to think the cook would try that bit harder to cook up a better product next time.
Unless, of course, their arrogance refuses to accept the pizza wasn’t actually very good in the first place. In which case its going to be the usual product rehashed over and over again without any thought to some fresh toppings.

1062. Harry Ballz - May 5, 2014

Buzz, you ol’ honeydripper, you!

1063. Keachick (Rose) - May 6, 2014

“Unless, of course, their arrogance refuses to accept the pizza wasn’t actually very good in the first place.”

Just for the record – I was relating an actual real life incident involving my daughter. It was NOT an analogy, although I can see how it could be seen as one.

Of course, any good cook will try to improve his recipe, but what does he do if he is also being told by a great many diners that his pizza is just fine (for the most part). Should he be expected to make radical changes to the recipe in the hopes of satisfying those who do not like his previous pizza? What if these changes fail to satisfy both parties – ie the ones who enjoyed the previous pizza and yet still manage to cause dissatisfaction among those who did not like the original pizza?

What do you think, Bob Orci – what should the pizza maker do?

1064. Marja - May 6, 2014

1054 Rose, We need to define what being a feminist means first…LOL Given the previous discussions/debates had between the females who post here, well, it has become that what some may see as going against feminism is not agreed upon [by] other women who take a different [view], yet we all claim that we are feminists…sigh…oh dear….

I am a feminist who — miraculously! — maintained a marriage relationship with another professional as we both continued our careers in the military.

According to some of the “feminists” who’ve posted here in the past, that is something a “real” feminist would not do. She would be so devoted to her professional career she would not waste time in a relationship with a professional, especially a male professional they feel should be in love with his male captain.

What I object to is “faux feminists” — the people who complain of the Spock and Uhura relationship when what they really want is a Kirk and Spock romance. They complain about Uhura because it’s “unprofessional” for her to be involved with Spock, yet in the fiction they like, Spock fulfills that selfsame role with Kirk.

Some people look at one of the great male friendships and make it romantic. This is a female fan fantasy of long standing, and appears across many fandoms in many genres [Harry Potter, for example]. IDK why, and that is their business, in fandom, in fan fiction, and whatever, but to insist a gay relationship between Captain Kirk and his most trusted friend Commander Spock is — or should be — canon is … well, it’s just not recognizing that friendship can happen between men. And again, I think it’s fine, within a fandom. It’s not canon. It’s never been presented on screen, as such. They have heartburn with BRTrek’s Uhura because she is presented on screen in a love relationship with Spock.

But to support this idea of a romance between Kirk and Spock by bashing the character Uhura — who, according to some, “does not belong in the forefront” of the movies — is not feminism, it’s woman-bashing. Thus, “faux feminism.”

I am pro-gay. My best friend is a gay man who bore up in silence through 23 years of military service [in the US military back then, being gay got one discharged]. Even he says Kirk and Spock would not be a couple. [He also said he could see McCoy and Spock together … to each his own! … but would not expect to see that on screen.]

1065. Cygnus-X1 - May 6, 2014

1044. Disinvited – May 5, 2014

To be fair to Phil, I think he’s been rather clear that he’s ambivalent at best about Bob directing. He’s sole note has only been that Bob is qualified to apply for the job, not that he beats all comers.

Well, if that’s Phil’s position, then I agree with him…kind of.

It does seem…what’s the right word…irregular? For the guy who was replaced as writer to now be applying for a promotion to director. If we were talking about some other movie or franchise, then Orci’s application for the job would be based on his past experience as a writer/producer of TV episodes and feature films, and in that case I’d agree with Phil. I can’t speak very highly of the quality of Bob’s work on other projects, but there’s no denying that he’s spent a lot of time on set as a writer/producer. And I’d have no complaints about Bob wanting to direct some other movie that I probably won’t see, anyway. If Bob writes a sequel to “Cowboys and Aliens” and applies to direct it, or even another Spiderman movie, you won’t see me on some fan site complaining about it.

But, the particular job that Orci is applying for here is to direct a sequel to a movie in which his contribution was not all that well received the last time around, and as such he has been replaced in his previous capacity.

I’m no Orson Welles (just to bring it back around to CK), but it seems to me that it is very important for a director to know how to tell a good story with a coherent plot, a well-developed theme and well-motivated, logically-consistent characters. And, of all the viable directorial candidates to whom one might ascribe the aforementioned skill set, I think it is fair to say that Bob Orci would not be particularly high on that list, judging solely by his contributions to this particular franchise.

And now he wants to be the head story-teller and visionary for the next sequel in that franchise. Purely as a business decision, if I were one of the deciders at Paramount, I imagine that I might not find it prudent to hire as director of a major feature film the guy whom you recently saw fit to take off of the writing of that film. And from the other side, it doesn’t seem like Orci has earned that promotion within this particular franchise, notwithstanding how much he might love Trek. Added to all that is the fact that BR Trek 3 is going to be a big-budget, tent-pole movie. Does Paramount want a first-time director with Orci’s track-record doing on-the-job training and making his bones on one of their biggest investments?

1066. PaulB - May 6, 2014

Using Keachick’s pizza analogy, ST09 was a tasty pizza made from familiar ingredients, and it was a great meal. But for STID, the filmmakers regurgitated previously eaten pizzas, served up the steaming mess, and said, “Gee, ain’t we great cooks?”

Also, Keachick, some food for thought: I once insisted that my mom stop making a certain dish, and I guess I was “bitching” about it like your daughter (nice language to use about your kid, btw). But I couldn’t tell my mom the REAL reason, which was that EVERYONE hated the dish but nobody would say it but me.

Maybe that homemade pizza isn’t as tasty to everyone as you think…much like STID wasn’t as palatable for some of us as you want to believe. (Still love ST09, though.)

1067. LogicalLeopard - May 6, 2014

1060. Keachick (Rose) – May 5, 2014

To go even further with your example, stretching the real to the hypothetical, it would be like if your daughter peeked in every few minutes while you’re eating the pizza and commented on how disgusting it looked (ie, watching movie trailers, etc), came and sat at the table after the rest of the family is basking in post-pizza bliss, and talked about how your choice of ingredients and pizza was ruining the very concept of pizza, and the memories she had of good pizza, and talked about how bad the next pizza was going to be allllll the way up until you cooked it next time. *LOL*

1068. Curious Cadet - May 6, 2014

@1063. Cygnus-X1,
“For the guy who was replaced as writer to now be applying for a promotion to director.”

Did I miss a memo? When did Paramount fire Orci as a writer for the next Star Trek? I was rather under the impression he is the Head Writer.

1069. LogicalLeopard - May 6, 2014

1061. Buzz Cagney – May 5, 2014

Here’s the funny thing about nu-Trek and pizza. You’ve got Tos’ Pizza, the original, which opens up in town and develops a fierce fan following. Old Tos opens up a new pizza shop, called TNG. Most Tos fans like it and eat there too, while still stopping by Tos to get a slice every now and then. Tos spins off DS9 Pizza, Voy Pizza, and ENT pizza. Mixed reviews. But some people love it.

But now, years later, the original owner has sadly passed away. No more input over the recipes. But someone decides to open up a Nu-Tos Pizza, the same flavors as Tos, but much bolder, with interesting seasoning. You eat it. You don’t like it. Fine.

But why hang around Nu Tos’ several times a week, if not daily, to complain about how bad the food is, how it represents the death of all things pizza, and how much of an insult it is, when you could just go eat at Tos’s ANYTIME YOU WANT? The old restaurant is STILL open. You won’t get any new menu choices, no surprises, and you’ve eaten it lots of times, but it stands the test of time?

This is why I don’t get all of the vehement comments on this site. Its fine to have criticism, it’s fine to want to steer things into a better direction, and wonder of wonders, we have a writer (and perhaps future director) who actually listens to us (not to be confused with “does what we say.”). But if someone thinks it’s garbage, why not move on and watch your old DVD’s? Read fanfic. Watch fan productions. Read books. Hey, even play STOnlline. You can get TOS uniforms, an Enterprise bridge layout, and even a pet horta!

1070. barney - May 6, 2014

It so surreal to talk about box office.its like I am in a twilight zone. here, look at this article I came across 5 years ago

http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/28/star-trek-now-top-domestic-grossing-film-of-2009-4-globally/

Trekmovie was proud to report how trek 2009 crossed the 200m mark in the usa and became the top highest grossing film in america at that time.

fast forward five years. things have changed.

I think it is fair to say that the franchise went backwards with Into Darkness.

1071. Curious Cadet - May 6, 2014

@1066. LogicalLeopard,
“The old restaurant is STILL open. You won’t get any new menu choices, no surprises, and you’ve eaten it lots of times, but it stands the test of time?”

But this is not what’s happening. The pizza analogy works to a point, but the reality is TOS is closed, and in its place has opened NuTrek. And it’s the only pizza place in town, since TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT have closed. It’s not about new recipes, it’s about fresh pizza for dinner. You can’t eat your memories of all the great pizza you had before. You’re hungry for pizza, and you don’t like this new stuff. So your only choice is to make it at home, or show up from time to time and try to convince the manager and others to bring back the old recipes. But the new place is doing well, so why should they change?

I totally understand why these hard core guys with unrealistic expectations are showing up — it’s the only place in town they can make their case. And yes it gets old. But you know what I do? I ignore them, like any zealots. When they create 8 aliases and start bullying people who don’t agree with them, that’s when there’s a problem you can’t ignore … Oh, wait …

1072. Who cares - May 6, 2014

@Oscar. so I challenged you to provide real facts from independent neutral sources and instead you parrot the exact same invalid “survey” from the convention that I expected you to and that I had already said was not valid, as everyone who knows the actual facts of that piece of propaganda is already aware. Come on now, if you are so very certain of being right then it should be easy for you to find at least one article from a neutral source, that supports your position. The fact you keep falling back on that BS “survey” says all I really need to know about your “facts”

PS. Trek fan since 1977, born to two Trek fans who have been watching since TOS original airing. My parents had one complaint about ST09, the use of the song Sabotage, because they don’t like the Beastie Boys.

1073. Disinvited - May 6, 2014

#1058. Ahmed – May 5, 2014

I was rereading the EXAMINER piece and I noticed something that could be a problem on his job interview:

Here he says:

“The second most important thing is developing your voice on the page so that others who read you[sic] script find it distinct from the competition.” — Roberto Orci

as part of a response to the question “What factors are involved to get a story written and onto the screen/television?”

But over here he says:

“That I don’t know. Not good at self analysis.” — Roberto Orci

in response to the question, “What quality do you think you have that sets you apart from the other writers/producers?”

Now maybe that’s modesty but it does look as if he doesn’t have a good answer for when the question becomes “What quality do you think you have that sets you apart from the other writers/producers/directors?”

Well he does also say:

” In high school, I was on the debate team which actually taught me more than anything else.” — Roberto Orci

So I would imagine he knows how to prepare. But if he indeed doesn’t have an answer for what about him sets him apart from the other directors, I don’t see him getting the gig.

1074. I am not Herbert - May 6, 2014

Re: pizza analogy – nu-trek pizza comes in a fancy box (eye-candy); but it “tastes” like sh*t-on-a-shingle to anyone who truly appreciates gourmet pizza (TOS)

GR would sue these “pizza-makers” for using his trademarks to sell this sh*tty, fraudulent excuse for the real-deal…

you can have your Little Caesar’s soggy cardboard… I want Round Table! =D

1075. I am not Herbert - May 6, 2014

…we (of the true faith) will not go quietly in the night…

…we will stand up for what is good and right!! =)

…and against the “darkness” that attempts to eclipse the light! =D

clear it up any…?

1076. Tom - May 6, 2014

Now that Bob And Alex split for film screenplays, who are the writers for The Amazing Spider Man 3? I believe they were supposed to write the script.

1077. LogicalLeopard - May 6, 2014

1068. I am not Herbert – May 6, 2014

So…what exactly are you standing up for? I mean, if you don’t like the direction they’re taking with the new movies, then….well, I mean, it’s not like they’ve remastered all of the old movies and television shows and refuse to sell the old ones. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. And those opinions are valid and valuable. But when is enough, enough? I mean, if a person offers constructive criticism, it may get listened to, but at what point does railing on something become counterproductive and just plain idiotic?

I didn’t like Voyager when it came out. So what did I do? I stopped watching it. DS9 was still on, anyways. But what purpose would it have served if I logged onto Voyager bulletin boards regularly to discuss how much I hated the show? Why even comment on it? Same thing with nu-Trek. If you don’t like it, it’s probably not going to change much after it’s already established a direction after 2 movies. Its successful enough that they’re making arrangements for part 3. So, you can’t do much about it except stay home, and watch something else.

1078. LogicalLeopard - May 6, 2014

And by the way, I’ve been watching Voyager recently. Great show. *LOL* Late in the run, I started watching it more frequently. I thought the Seven of Nine character was interesting and great. Better than your “non-human” outsider characters like Data and Odo, more in the vein of Spock’s, “I could care less about being a stupid human because I’m better than you all” approach. *L* But I’m watching the earlier episodes now, and finding them pretty enjoyable too. I’ve got a renewed respect for Janeway.

1079. Phil - May 6, 2014

@1068 Independence Day fan? And you complain that Bad Robot Trek is cheesy?

1080. I am not Herbert - May 6, 2014

aww…, man!

my pizza analogy got censored??

BOGUS!! =(

1081. I am not Herbert - May 6, 2014

ooops… now it’s back… =P

yeah, keep on spinnin’ Phil…

1082. star trackie - May 6, 2014

Yeah, the haters drone on like a broken record. If I take a bite of that pizza, and it sucks, or maybe its good, but not the way I like it…guess what? I’m not going there again! I’m going somewhere else. Its not that hard of a decision. You haters are gluttons for punishment I guess! lol Or maybe its really not about what they dont like, but theyre just the type that argues for the sake of arguing. Maybe theyre bed-ridden or something, nothing better to do.

Me, I love me some spicy TOS pizza, and had to live with bland Frozen anchovie TNG pizza for almost 20 years! lol And I grant you, alot of people loved that frozen bland anchovie pizza! lol But that aint whats being made any more. Glad to have that fresh-made TOS pizza pie again, its quite delicious! My compliments to the chefs!

1083. Marja - May 6, 2014

Logical Leopard, great analogies, thanks for the LOL!

1084. I am not Herbert - May 6, 2014

whatever… you people bitch about us wasting our time here…

…and then you ask us to waste even more (time)… no thanks… =(

bowing-out of the bitch-fest (for now) ;-)

in parting: it is “fresh”, but it sucks… thanks boborci! =(

1085. Keachick (Rose) - May 6, 2014

@ #1063 – “Orci is currently laser focused on the upcoming “Star Trek 3.” He’s already been tapped to pen the picture along with Patrick McKay and John D. Payne, and he’s lobbying heavily to direct the production.” quote from the article of this thread.

You need to read what this thread is actually about. Bob Orci is the writer. K/O Paper Products still exists and my understanding is that it has always, first of all, been a screenwriting company, owned by two writers, Alex Kurtzman and Bob Orci. The only difference is that Alex Kurtzman is no longer part of the writing duo for this third Star Trek film, however my impression is that the two may write something together again in the future via K/O Paper Products.

It seems quite obvious that Bob Orci is the head writer, with assistant writers JD Payne and P McKay.

Ref: pizza. Once all we had were the pizza bases, a little bit of pizza sauce and a big block of cheese. All the other ingredients had been consumed. I said to son, volunteer pizza maker, to just use these ingredients because that was all the original pizza contained anyway. He did so – best pizza of all. Very yummy. I am not sure how analogous this could be to anything Star Trek, but I thought I would share anyhow…:)

1086. Keachick (Rose) - May 6, 2014

Yet again, I am not Herbert cannot give a properly, well thought out response to a poster’s query, but insists on writing his usual phrase bytes and snotty insults.

What is Phil spinnin’? Perhaps it is his more grounded intelligence and common sense that “offends” you…oh dear…

1087. LogicalLeopard - May 6, 2014

1083. Marja

You’re welcome! *L*

1088. Keachick (Rose) - May 6, 2014

Bear in mind, everyone, when I related some real life interactions I had between my daughter and myself about how she suddenly did not like the homemade pizza and thought that because of this, we should not be buying the ingredients in order to make anymore pizza, I wrote about this because it so reminded me of what people like I am not Herbert, Oscar et al, have been repeatedly doing on this site.

Buzz Cagney saw how the story of the pizza could be analogous to another aspect of discussion regarding Star Trek in general. LogicalLeopard understood where I was coming from with my story and extended it further.

I see that my post in which I responded directly to Buzz Cagney and finished off my comment by asking Bob Orci as to what the pizza maker should do, has gone…

1089. LogicalLeopard - May 6, 2014

1071. Curious Cadet – May 6, 2014
@1066. LogicalLeopard,

But this is not what’s happening. The pizza analogy works to a point, but the reality is TOS is closed, and in its place has opened NuTrek. And it’s the only pizza place in town, since TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT have closed. It’s not about new recipes, it’s about fresh pizza for dinner. You can’t eat your memories of all the great pizza you had before. You’re hungry for pizza, and you don’t like this new stuff. So your only choice is to make it at home, or show up from time to time and try to convince the manager and others to bring back the old recipes. But the new place is doing well, so why should they change?

I totally understand why these hard core guys with unrealistic expectations are showing up — it’s the only place in town they can make their case. And yes it gets old. But you know what I do? I ignore them, like any zealots. When they create 8 aliases and start bullying people who don’t agree with them, that’s when there’s a problem you can’t ignore … Oh, wait …

********************************

I dispute that just a bit. You can “eat” your memories of the old pizza, because you can pull out a DVD anytime you’d like, and enjoy the original shows. It’s almost like if you could buy the pizza frozen, but could never go out to a restaurant and enjoy it, or get a new recipe by the original chefs. Even though the frozen tastes pretty good.

So, back to our Trek, I’m afraid the TOS ship has sailed. You’ll probably never see the original cast together (and who would want to, without D.K.?), and it wouldn’t be the same as before. You’ll get new actors, new writers, and a new direction. That’s just reality.

So, back to pizza. I understand pleading your case for bringing back the old recipes as they were, but at some point, even the politest critics have to acknowledge that it’s no longer economical for the guy to sit back there and squash tomatoes to make the sauce, and shave off a block of mozzarella. And actually, some of the old ways weren’t always that great either (hello foam rocks!). But it would behoove a fan of the original to sit down and isolate what worked about the old pizza, and try to suggest that to the new management. “You know, the ingredients just don’t seem to blend together like it used to, maybe you should tone down the oregano/onions/green pepper.” Or, “You know, the pan crust is classic. I know people like the thin crust, but could you throw that in as an alternative option?”

But what we get is this:

CHEESE!?!?!?! THAT’S THE SECRET INGREDIENT IN THE STUFFED CRUST?!?!?! OH MY STARS AND GARTERS, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, WE HAD CHEESE IN THE FIRST STUFFED CRUST PIZZA YOU MADE 20 YEARS AGO! YOU ALL ARE PLAGIARIZING, UNIMAGINATIVE LOSERS, AND I HOPE YOU CHOKE ON YOUR TONGUES!!!!

In the first commercial twenty years ago, the oldest kid yells out CRUUUUUUST!!!. Now it’s his little brother who yells out, CRUUUUST! That TOTALLY ruined the commercial for me! Everyone groaned on the couch when he said it!

WHY DO YOU HAVE TO POSITION THE LIGHTS SO THERE WILL BE GREASE FLARES ON THE TOP OF THE PIZZA? That’s SOO ANNOYING!

1090. Kenji - May 6, 2014

I have to say, having seen Amazing Spider Man 2 is giving me the willies a little bit about the next Trek.

Unless, you know, all of the stupid stuff in ASM2 – effectively, all of the motivations, dialogue, plotting, reveals, and overall pace (the special effects are excellent) – was from Kurtzman…

ASM2 also brings back everyone’s favourite plot device: magic blood!

1091. Disinvited - May 6, 2014

Frackin’ BEVERLY HILLS COP 4 gets a release Date!:

http://blogs.indiewire.com/shadowandact/4th-beverly-hills-cop-movie-is-a-definite-go-paramount-sets-2016-release-date-will-be-set-in-detroit

1092. I am not Herbert - May 6, 2014

if ASM2 makes the money they want, it’s a (ST3) done deal =(

1093. Keachick (Rose) - May 6, 2014

Wait a minute – my post is there…oops….doh to me.

#1064 – Oh Marja – Careful – you could face vilification and scorn from some corners… but what you do say is quite true of some of the Spock/Uhura relationship detractors. Not only does Uhura face this opposition but so does any woman who may forge more than a one or two night stands with Jim Kirk. The most likely female candidate would be Carol Marcus. Carol, like Nyota, will need to watch out…:(

To some of these so-called “feminists”, it does not matter that the Carol/Jim liaison which also resulted in the birth of David is actually prime TOS canon, which more than makes a similar scenario taking place in this alternate universe entirely valid. Kirk, in any universe, will not be allowed to neither experience the joys and tribulations of parenthood in any form whatsoever nor to just simply work at/enjoy any longer term love of a good woman, because he is supposed to be “married to the Enterprise”, the “Enterprise is his one and only true mistress” and other such unhealthy garbage. Of course, this must also hold for Spock, except that he is “married to Vulcan Logic…” eventually leading these two lonely friends to embark on a relationship that goes beyond a genuine and healthy platonic friendship.

I am not against gay people.
I just do not like the fact that some *strange/crazy* “feminists”, as well as those who have a clear agenda which has nothing to do with how these two male characters have been written, want these two men not to have any kind of relationship with a female, thereby leaving the “coast clear” for K/S shipping, ie a Kirk/Spock homosexual relationship.

I say – let Spock and Uhura explore how far they can take their relationship and allow Kirk to experience more than enjoyable, but fleeting, one/two night stands. Kirk and Spock are more than capable, as are Uhura and Carol/other?

1094. LogicalLeopard - May 6, 2014

1071. Curious Cadet – May 6, 2014

I think my response for you is pending moderation. It should be approved in a bit, because it wasn’t bad. I didn’t use any foul language or offensive content.

1095. Keachick (Rose) - May 6, 2014

Blood is “magical”, given that transfusing one person’s whole blood or components into another dying human being can save that dying person’s life. Blood can also be especially “magical” when ordinary wine becomes the Blood of Christ through transubstantiation via the Holy Spirit via a priest. It is not a new idea or new reality. I think that this is one of the things that separates Catholic Christian belief from that other Christian denominations.

I believe in the power of transubstantiation, so the notion of there being “magic” blood does not confuse, phase or annoy me.

What the real issue should be – is – just what kind of “magic” is being harnessed? Anything other than that of the Holy Spirit should makes us very wary, eg Khan’s blood – what power has been harnessed there? Of course, being able to discriminate does require some degree of genuine spiritual insight.

It is likely that most of any negative residual effect would have been used up in the process of bringing and keeping Kirk alive. Hopefully, Kirk will be able to positively and effectively deal with whatever may be left over. If not, then the Menosian Suranai will be able to help in bringing about Kirk’s full and healthy spiritual recovery…

Bob and co. – Look, I am almost writing the next story for you, so says the bombastic sheila that I can be at times…:)

1096. Keachick (Rose) - May 6, 2014

I want a pet Horta!

1097. LogicalLeopard - May 6, 2014

1096. Keachick (Rose) – May 6, 2014

You can have one in Star Trek Online. After one of the missions, you get one as a pet. It follows you around. I named mine “Steamy.”

The video game is kind of fun, in appropriate doses. I’m not one who plays video games normally – I don’t have any gaming systems, etc, but I do enjoy that one from time to time, and looking at the odd references from Trek that pop up. Cool things, like actually being able to participate in the same Batleth tournament on Forcas III that Worf participated in in TNG ( I think it Parallels was the episode.) And break up a bit of Klingon intrigue as well. And of course, there’s fighting Mugatos….

1098. crazydaystrom - May 6, 2014

1096. Keachick (Rose)
“I want a pet Horta!”

HAHA!!!
Rose, you made me literally laugh out loud!! thanks

1099. crazydaystrom - May 6, 2014

I just got here and scanned a few posts. Keachick wants a horta, lol, and now i want a pizza! mmmm….

1100. Disinvited - May 6, 2014

#1095. Keachick (Rose) – May 6, 2014

Hmmm…..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/new-studies-show-that-young-blood-reverses-the-effects-of-aging-when-put-into-older-mice/2014/05/04/1346baac-d2eb-11e3-8a78-8fe50322a72c_story.html

We may have to cut K&O a smidgen of slack on the “magic” blood thing.

1101. Disinvited - May 6, 2014

#1091. Disinvited – May 6, 2014

I suppose BHC4’s end of March 2016 release means Brett Ratner will be free to direct.

If so, maybe the Iotians can pull a heist?

1102. Keachick (Rose) - May 6, 2014

#1100 – Yes, I caught a bit of that. Interesting stuff, but I do not find myself particularly surprised at what the findings of the research show so far.

1103. Phil - May 6, 2014

@1100. Yeah, I saw that as well. It doesn’t address that there is no noticeable effect on human blood transfusions, though transfusing all blood is a rarity. I suppose more research is in order…

I hit the blood bank on a regular basis, and the next time I’m in there I’m going to ask when my blood is used, what happens to my DNA? It would really suck if it turned up at a crime scene somewhere…

1104. Phil - May 6, 2014

@1096 Please don’t name it Rocky. Sylvester Stallone might not be pleased….

1105. Phil - May 6, 2014

@1092. That’s right, buddy. Pick a winner. Theaters full of people to see ST3 is a win for everyone. Except you.

1106. Finnegan - May 6, 2014

1060. If your homemade pizza sucks as bad as STID then I am siding with your daughter.

1107. Keachick (Rose) - May 6, 2014

Neither suck!

But I will tell you what does suck – the final episode of the Enterprise series – These Are The Voyages. We now have the entire Enterprise series on DVD and it was interesting because many of the episodes we either had not seen at all or had only seen parts of them.

My other half and I sat down to watch the final episode and at the end, sat there and stared at each other and virtually saying in unison – “What was that?” It was bad, bad, bad, just awful. I kept waiting to find out just why two old TNG *farts* Riker and Troi were there at all, but I never found out.

Yeah, and they keep killing off main characters…duh…:(

Mind you, the two parter dealing with nutcase Paxton was not much better either. So he stole T’Pol and Trip’s DNA/genetic material and was able to produce a hybrid child in order to prove what exactly?, other than he was a cold, calculating, meddlesome raving loon. T’Pol and Trip find out that they have a daughter, that she has not herself conceived.

Perhaps the story being told here may not be so far-fetched, but it is certainly horrible. I don’t know. The implications are not good but why tell such a story?

Curiously, I am quite happy to rewatch Series 1 but I’ll give the last two series some time before I watch again…For me, although many of the stories were good, the feel was not there. In the end, they had Captain Archer being down and pessimistic. What a stupid, dull and depressing end the last few episodes were! Yikes.

1108. Disinvited - May 6, 2014

#1107. Keachick (Rose) – May 6, 2014

“So he stole T’Pol and Trip’s DNA/genetic material and was able to produce a hybrid child in order to prove what exactly?” — Keachick (Rose)

That Sarek should find it only logical to pursue that sweet schoolmarm that set his pon Farr all atwitter?

1109. Cygnus-X1 - May 6, 2014

1068. Curious Cadet – May 6, 2014

Did I miss a memo? When did Paramount fire Orci as a writer for the next Star Trek? I was rather under the impression he is the Head Writer.

What I’ve read is that Payne & McKay are composing the story and writing the script, and Orci, as the one with the Trek knowledge, is there to “supervise” and make sure the script conforms with Trekdom. My impression is that he’s like a Trek consultant (vis-a-vis science consultant, which, again, BR will probably forgo hiring for a few thousand bucks out of their $150 million budget).

1110. Cygnus-X1 - May 6, 2014

1068. Curious Cadet – May 6, 2014

Actually, I think that “story editor” is probably a better description than “Trek consultant.” In addition to advising on Trek issues, he’ll serve as an extra pair of eyes to catch things that might be improved upon. Whatever his title, he’s going to have far less influence on the writing of BR Trek 3 than he did on the previous two. And again, I’m no Orson Welles, but I would think that if you read, say, a book written by Stephen King and you really liked it, for the sequel, you’d again want Stephen King to conceive the story and write the book. You’d want Stephen King telling a story that comes from the mind of Stephen King.

1111. Ahmed - May 6, 2014

Looks like Bob & Alex were planing on a darker version of The Mummy, which sounds great, but now Universal studio wants a family-friendly Mummy!!

=======================================
Universal’s ‘Mummy’ Reboot Loses ‘Mama’ Director Andy Muschetti

“Mama” director Andy Muschetti has exited Universal’s reboot of “The Mummy” due to creative differences, TheWrap has learned.

Jon Spaihts wrote the current draft of the script, which reimagined “The Mummy” franchise in modern day with new characters not seen in previous iterations and a protagonist imbued with a human personality.

Sean Daniel is producing the planned tentpole with Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci, who recently parted ways regarding feature projects, though their split is unrelated to Muschetti’s amicable exit from “The Mummy.”

When Len Wiseman was previously attached to direct “The Mummy,” he indicated that Kurtzman and Orci were envisioning a darker, scarier take on the “Mummy” mythology that would still appeal to all audiences.

Apparently, the project has changed direction, as Muschetti wanted to deliver a darker take rather than the four-quadrant, more family-friendly action-adventure blockbuster that Universal now has in mind.

http://www.thewrap.com/universals-mummy-reboot-loses-mama-director-andy-muschetti-exclusive/
=======================================

1112. Keachick (Rose) - May 6, 2014

#1110 – Who said that Bob Orci is no longer a writer but a “story editor” or a “Trek consultant vis-a-vis science consultant”? Everything that I have read clearly states that he is the writer assisted by Payne and McKay. What evidence do you have that suggests that he will have far less influence on the story writing of BR Trek 3 than with the other two films? I have the opposite impression, in that he will have more influence, not less.

JD Payne studied Engineering, among other subjects, when he was in college. I don’t know what Orci studied, but it does appear that perhaps it is the writer Payne who may have a little more in the way engineering and science knowledge and understanding. This just may be what TPTB might have been looking for as well in any new writer or other joining the team…

1113. Keachick (Rose) - May 6, 2014

#1111 – Perhaps the studio senses that many people are starting to resist movies with darker themes and characters, hence their stance on the next “Mummy” film. They are becoming bored with them. It is possible that the studio may not see the darker themes being explored being as bigger a box office draw as they might have been a while back, for the reason above.

1114. Cygnus-X1 - May 6, 2014

1112. Keachick (Rose) – May 6, 2014

#1110 – Who said that Bob Orci is no longer a writer but a “story editor” or a “Trek consultant vis-a-vis science consultant”? Everything that I have read clearly states that he is the writer assisted by Payne and McKay.

Would you show me where you read that?

1115. Cygnus-X1 - May 6, 2014

1112. Keachick (Rose) – May 6, 2014

Perhaps I’m misinterpreting it.

But, Orci & Kurtzman were the main writing team on the last two BR Trek movies. Kurtzman is no longer involved at all, and a new team of McKay and Payne has been hired. This gave me the impression that Paramount wanted a new style of writing for BR Trek 3. None of the articles that I’m seeing gives any clarification on the writing duties: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-trek-3-beams-up-663729

1116. Ahmed - May 6, 2014

@1114. Cygnus-X1

Variety & trade magazines reported that Bob is writing the script & the new guys are assisting him.

=========================

‘Star Trek 3′ Recruits Writers to Join Roberto Orci

J.D. Payne and Patrick McKay will co-write “Star Trek 3″ along with Roberto Orci, who penned the previous two installments for Skydance and Paramount Pictures.(sic)

As of now the film has no logline or start date but the studio hopes for a 2016 release. All of the main cast including Chris Pine and Zachary Quinto are expected to return.

http://variety.com/2013/film/news/star-trek-3-recruits-writers-to-join-roberto-orci-1200927608/

1117. Ahmed - May 6, 2014

@1115. Cygnus-X1

“Kurtzman is no longer involved at all, and a new team of McKay and Payne has been hired. This gave me the impression that Paramount wanted a new style of writing for BR Trek 3.”

True but that was back in August 2013 as Variety reported in an earlier report:

===========================

“After briefly looking at other writers to pen the next installment, Paramount has gone back to Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci to write the next “Star Trek” movie. (sic) The studio had looked at possibly giving the assignment to another writing duo, including “X-Men: First Class” scribes Ashley Edward Miller and Zack Stentz, but ultimately went back to Kurtzman and Orci for the job.

The studio will now look for a director.

http://variety.com/2013/film/news/alex-kurtzman-and-roberto-orci-return-to-write-star-trek-3-1200574487/
===========================

The studio is STILL looking for a director !!!

1118. Cygnus-X1 - May 6, 2014

Trek Core’s phrasing implied that either the three would all be “lead writers” or that McKay & Payne would be the “lead writers” joining Orci: http://trekcore.com/blog/2014/03/star-trek-3-co-writer-j-d-payne-talks-trek-bad-robot-and-writing-partner-patrick-mckay/

My impression was that McKay and Payne were being hired as the new Orci & Kurtzman. But maybe it’s three equal writing partners. Hey, more chefs in the kitchen can only be good, right?

1119. Hugh Hoyland - May 6, 2014

I dunno if Bob is around (and I cant seem to work Twitter) so I’ll take a chance and ask here but whats the deal bro? Any new news or hints as to your status in regards to directing Star Trek 3?

1120. Red Dead Ryan - May 6, 2014

I just saw “The Amazing Spider-Man 2″ earlier today. It’s a so-so movie, I’m afraid. The villains weren’t interesting, Andrew Garfield’s accent was strange, the fight scenes were video-game-like, and the overall story was underwhelming.

There were some good character moments between Peter Parker and Aunt May, as well as Gwen Stacy but ultimately, TASM2 felt like it was overstuffed with villains (similar to what befell Sam Raimi’s “Spider-Man 3″) and not enough plot.

The first TASM was merely okay, as it was a rehash. The sequel I rank about the same. It didn’t bring anything new to the game. These movies fall short of the first two Raimi movies, and in particular, “Spider-Man 2″, which a decade later, is still far superior.

It feels even more underwhelming in the shadow of other recent superhero flicks, such as “Iron Man”, “Captain America 1 and 2″, “The Dark Knight” trilogy as well as “The Avengers”.

Some people loved this movie, others hated it. But for me, its somewhere in the middle. Not terrible, but not great either.

A 5 out of 10.

BTW, the Hans Zimmer score is great.

1121. Keachick (Rose) - May 6, 2014

Looking objectively at K/O Paper Products screenwriting accomplishments, I would say that their efforts seem to be in the average/above average in quality range. This is going from what critics and others have said, over time, about their various screenwriting assignments. If they started to write work that was considered to be consistently average/below average, they would soon find that work opportunities dry up.

In percentage terms, they must maintain a minimum of 60% C-grade, and anything above, receiving either a B or A-grade. Averaging a B-grade, with an occasional A-grade, is not too bad, given the scope of their work.

So say I – know-all know-nothing Kck…:)

The only superhero movies I have liked have been the two Iron Man ones, probably because they have Robert Downey Jnr and I find him to be good value.

1122. Disinvited - May 6, 2014

FWIW BEVERLY HILLS COP 4 is yet again another failed TV pilot project Paramount has turned into a major motion picture.

Given the speed with which their resources found its motion picture director, I wondering if this is an indication that the plot of the next Trek sequel will NOT be comedic?

1123. Disinvited - May 6, 2014

#1122. Disinvited – May 6, 2014

“I wondering…” = “I’m wondering…”

1124. EvilGuyThatStirsUpTrouble - May 6, 2014

I caught an interesting discussion on http://trekmovie.com/2013/09/01/star-trek-is-broken-here-are-ideas-on-how-to-fix-it/

Hello Bob Orci,

Great to see you here! You are really showing a big heart by standing here and debating with fans. It’s very tough, it takes a strong person to do that. You have absolutely no obligation to explain yourself to anyone but you are a very cool person to do so. Much respect to you!

The following are my two cents :D
I loved the TNG series (I thought that the two first seasons were the best) but wouldn’t call myself a trekkie (despite have seen all the movies, TOS and Voyager as well). I did not like Star Trek (2009) but I liked ST ITD. It was an entertaining flick. I liked it despite I had the same issues with the story as everyone else.

Here is my theory on why I think that the new Star Trek had issues: the writers listens to fans =) Seriously. This is something Damon Lindelof does as well, and not suprisingly these guys are the most criticized on internet forums. Doesn’t anyone think that there is a correlation? Listening to fans is akin to doing “test audiences” – it’s the same concept, something Bob Orci has said they didn’t do on Star Trek. It diminishes the voice of the author, regardless of it’s conscious or not. And before you want to argue that it doesn’t have to be that way yada yada, Bob Orci actually lists a couple of points on how they listened to fans. One point is how Kirk is promoted to Captain too fast, and how they adress it in ST ITD (I will get back to this point two paragraphs down).

I want to go off on a tangent (kind of) and talk a bit about writing techniques.
There was a poster who mentioned an interesting exchange in ST (2009) where Spock loses his temper and throws Kirk off the ship to an icy planet. On the planet he happens to meet Spock prime… and Scotty… and they are beamed back on to the ship while in warpdrive. Before he meets up with Spock Prime he is chased by a creature that leads him exactly to the location where the story needs him to be. This poster mentioned how this is derivative from a writer that knows that he wants Kirk and Spock Prime to meet, and writes from that – instead of letting the characters’ motivation drive the story and plot points. That to me are the two differents ways you can write a story, the latter is the superior technique.
Bob Orci and Alex Kurtzman are a follower of the former technique.

If we compare these different techniques of writing.
Christopher Nolan did an interview for Wired about “Inception”, and he was asked a question if he himself knew the answer to the ambigious ending/story of Inception, and he responds that he does. He goes on about that in order for him to be truthful to the story and its audience – so one doesn’t sound cheated, he has to be truthful in his own intentions from the very beginning. I thought it sounded really smart, really honest and right (at the end of my post I have quoted the actual interview).
Another smart thing the man has said regarding the Batman trilogy (mind you, I’m not even a big Nolan fan) is that he thinks every movie in the trilogy has to be self-contained. He doesn’t believe “I have to save this for the sequel, and that can be adressed in the sequel” etc. It has to make sense and be self-containted in the film he is doing right now.

Now, if we go back to Star Trek and its writers…
The thing I am wondering about is why and how Bob Orci even reaches that point where he writes that Kirk is promoted to captain so bluntly, which is something that he would obviously have to adress later on in ST ITD (which he felt he needed to do and fans agreed). Why wasn’t that a thought that crossed his mind, or anyone elses for that matter, in the first place? I’ve always thought that for being great at something, at least in the entertainment field you have to critique your choices thorougly (not critique yourself or be your own worst critic, there is a difference) so you don’t let anything pass by you that you later can’t back up. The fact that ST and its writers adress the fast promotion of Kirk in ST ITD means one of two things: they can’t back up their original choice or the audience didn’t buy it and thus they must adress it. Neither choice reflects positively on the writers.

Another future example: Khan’s superblood has to be adressed in ST3 now. Why write yourself in a corner like that so that you have to adress that in a sequel? It’s a waste and just irritates the viewer.
Bob Orci, why not avoid these decisions altogether that diminishes the IQ of an entertaining story?

_________
http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/11/pl_inception_nolan/all/
the Nolan interview:

Wired: you yourself would say, “I don’t have an answer.”

Nolan: Oh no, I’ve got an answer.
Wired: You do?!

Nolan: Oh yeah. I’ve always believed that if you make a film with ambiguity, it needs to be based on a sincere interpretation. If it’s not, then it will contradict itself, or it will be somehow insubstantial and end up making the audience feel cheated. I think the only way to make ambiguity satisfying is to base it on a very solid point of view of what you think is going on, and then allow the ambiguity to come from the inability of the character to know, and the alignment of the audience with that character.

1125. EvilGuyThatStirsUpTrouble - May 6, 2014

Bob, what do you think? Am I just writing BS? I hope I’m not too harsh on you, man.

And good luck on getting the directing gig!

1126. Disinvited - May 7, 2014

Interesting who spoke up:

http://www.deadline.com/2014/04/jeff-shell-leslie-moonves-jeffrey-katzenberg-milken-conference-movies-business/

“movies are not a growth business.” — Jeffrey Katzenberg, DreamWorks Animation CEO

“For anyone who is producing [movie] content today, the future is extremely bright. Anyone who is producing content and doesn’t see it as a growth biz is extremely mistaken.” — Les Moonves, CBS

1127. Disinvited - May 7, 2014

A little on the K&O split:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/gallery/photos-power-lawyers-2014-talent-699831#13-michael-gendler

“The breakup of Star Trek writing partners Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci (they will no longer be making features together, just TV) must have required plenty of lawyerly [Michael Gendler] TLC.” — The Hollywood Reporter, Staff

1128. LogicalLeopard - May 7, 2014

1093. Keachick (Rose) – May 6, 2014

To some of these so-called “feminists”, it does not matter that the Carol/Jim liaison which also resulted in the birth of David is actually prime TOS canon, which more than makes a similar scenario taking place in this alternate universe entirely valid. Kirk, in any universe, will not be allowed to neither experience the joys and tribulations of parenthood in any form whatsoever nor to just simply work at/enjoy any longer term love of a good woman, because he is supposed to be “married to the Enterprise”, the “Enterprise is his one and only true mistress” and other such unhealthy garbage.

**********************************

Yeah…..about that…remember, this is an alternate universe. One where Kirk was raised without a father, against his own choice. One of the first things I thought about concerning David is the very real possibility that Kirk would decide that it was more important to be a father than a starship captain. Or at the least, a committed father. But then again, as I remember, Carol Marcus didn’t tell him that she had Marcus, did she? By the way, that was a jerk move if she did, but I disgress.

With Kirk growing up in this universe without a father, and having received information from Prime Spock that he grew up and flourished with a father in the Prime Universe, Kirk would have to take a long hard look at fatherhood in this universe. It’s a very interesting scenario, because you have to examine what’s in the character’s DNA, as it were, and what is actually a result of the character’s life circumstances. I think these movies have done a terrific job of that with Kirk’s character, and look forward to seeing what they do in this case. It really all depends on how long the movies are going to continue. They’re doing well, and I think everyone was signed on for three movies. They could have Kirk abandon it all to go and raise his son, which would be awesome. I’d love to see that. It’s an easy thing to get him back in the Captain’s chair for another movie. He could be on a leave of absence from Starfleet, and then be called on to prevent a catastrophe/chase a bad guy/do something only Kirk could do in the next movie.

Of course, this all is pending where in the 5 year mission they start the next movie in, if they decide they want to work a pregnancy into it. They could always have the baby on the ship during the mission. Ooh, ooh, and they could get married on the ship! Jim can temporarily relinquish command to Spock, making him Captain, and giving him authority to marry them. Ooh, ooh, and wonder of wonders, they could get married in Engineering, next to the warp core.

And Kirk’s vows could start off with him saying, “Here, right next to where we’re standing, I lost my life. But I didn’t gain it again until I realized I was in love with you….”

Best Man McCoy: I had a little something to do with that too, y’know….

Kirk: Shut up, Bones.

Ring Bearer Chekov: Iz zees the time ven I giff you za ringz?

Flower Boy Sulu: Dude, be quiet….you’re not supposed to talk.

Maid of Honor Uhura: When me and Spock get married after the Captain’s honeymoon, remind me not to put you two clowns in our service….

Spock: *eyebrow raise. Opens mouth to speak. Closes it.*

1129. Keachick (Rose) - May 7, 2014

LogicalLeopard – Are you taking the piss here or something?

1130. Dswynne - May 7, 2014

To Rose and Marja: the problem with defining any social-political philosophy is that it can be highly subjective, thanks to one’s experiences vis-a-vis class, race, ethnicity, etc. Coupled that with the woman’s relationship to the men in her life, especially to her father, trying to determine who is a true feminist is a losing proposition.

1131. LogicalLeopard - May 7, 2014

1129. Keachick (Rose) – May 7, 2014
LogicalLeopard – Are you taking the piss here or something?

Uhm, what? I have no idea what that means.

1132. LogicalLeopard - May 7, 2014

1124. EvilGuyThatStirsUpTrouble – May 6, 2014

You’re stirring up trouble alright, by presenting a reasoned, thoughtful critique. *LOL* Is that allowed on the internet?

I enjoyed your comments. I think, though, I’d say that it sounds like the Delta Vega scenario used both of the techniques you mentioned – deciding that Spock/nu-Kirk had to meet, and writing back from that, with an approach that I think took into consideration the characters’ motivation drive them toward that point. I think in this type of movie, every writer probably has some things that they already know they want to happen, and have to make sure it fits with the character’s motivation.

It looks to me that Spock, in an emotionally compromised state, got a bit fed up with Kirk’s “nonsense” and had to think of a solution to deal with him. Many of us would think that would be placing him in the brig. But since Kirk wasn’t supposed to be on the ship in the first place, and wasn’t a member of the Enterprise crew, I think Spock saw the opportunity to satisfy his logic and emotion (whether he acknowledged he was feeling it or not) by launching him toward the nearest Federation base, which was Delta Vega. He put him in what was probably deemed to be a safe life pod, launched him at the planet (expediency was everything! *LOL*) and Kirk was supposed to sit there and be recovered.

As for superblood, why would that have to be addressed in the next movie? A lot of people seem to think that it would impart these remarkable powers to the recipient, but I kind of think of it like a regular blood transfusion. New blood doesn’t rewrite your genetic structure. But it can help with the normal functions and healing functions of your body. So, I suppose that Khan’s blood might have helped him heal faster, and might have a short term healing factor afterwards, but eventually those blood cells will die and be replaced with Kirk’s regular blood cells. Not sure if that’s the angle you were referring to, but those are my thoughts.

1133. Keachick (Rose) - May 7, 2014

#1131 – Sorry. “Taking the piss” might be a kiwi/aussie expression that others are not so familiar with. It means “making fun of”, “joking with an element of satire or sarcasm attached”. That is the best way of explaining the expression as far as I am aware.

#1124 – Both of these Star Trek films are self-contained and 99.99% of elements within both movies do not require *further explanation* or exploration, although the writers may choose to do so in future features.
———————————–
Although the meeting of prime Spock and Kirk could have taken place in another manner, it was chosen to make what we saw to be the way for the meeting to happen. I see this whole incident starting with Spock throwing Kirk off the Enterprise as one road taken, as opposed to another, which leads to certain events taking place that could not have happened otherwise. Much of real life can be just like that. Life can throw out what appears to be some inexplicable doozies of its own – we just don’t know…

The younger Spock was in no state of mind or otherwise to contend with a troublesome stowaway (as he in doubt viewed Kirk, despite Pike giving Kirk a field promotion). Spock had ordered that Kirk be thrown in the brig, but when Kirk attempted escape by punching/disarming the security officers holding him, Spock realized, in that moment, that this Kirk person meant more trouble and so decided to send in a safety pod onto the nearest Federation outpost.

I do not know if the writerS see this event as I can, but for me, it was an example of synchronicity (if that is the correct word), ie Spock got rid of a big annoyance and so doing facilitated a meeting between this “annoyance” and his prime universe older self…

It could also be an opportunity for viewers to see how Kirk copes with being in a hostile environment by himself. Again, one or two scenarios could easily have played out even if prime Spock was not there…
——————————
There is nothing ambiguous or left unexplained about Khan’s “magic” or “super” blood. The ridiculous assumptions about this “magic blood” (not a term used to describe it anyway in the film) come from viewers, not alluded to by the writers.

1134. Cygnus-X1 - May 7, 2014

1126. Disinvited – May 7, 2014

Yes, there’s money to be made internationally, but look at what the effect has been on American film. People wonder that movies are so dumbed-down and overly action-oriented these days, but that’s the deliberate shift in the business model due to loss of revenue from home video and whatever else…so they say, anyway. Though, I still wonder why it is that the studios were able to be sufficiently profitable PRIOR to the advent of home video, and yet they blame the loss of home video revenue for their decreasing profits these days. Something’s amiss there.

But, the point is—and I’m speaking generally here, not just to Disinvited—that when you’re watching BR Trek 3, Spiderman, Thor 7 or whatever other non-drama, non-comedy, non-documentary movie you might have shelled out $15 dollars or £10 pounds to see (or whatever the ticket prices are in the rest of the English-speaking world), you’re watching a movie whose target audience is Chinese and Russian people who don’t speak English and don’t want to read a lot of subtitles. Therefore, the movie’s literacy level has been reduced and its non-literate attributes, i.e. action, flashing lights, CGI, have been substantially increased.

Simply put, the reason that these movies seem dumbed-down is that they have been dumbed-down, and for a very deliberate, financially-motivated purpose.

So, the question that you have to ask yourselves is: Are you just gonna sit there and take it? Are you going to keep forking over your hard-earned cash-ola for entertainment that purposefully forsakes your intellect and above-5th-grade reading comprehension level and takes you as an English-speaking patron for granted? Are you going to let the Chinese and Russian audiences as well as the Hollywood studios take you for a sucker? A fool? A dupe? A door mat?

Or, are you going to stand up for yourself and demand a product worthy of your own intelligence and loyal patronage to American movie studios who’ve accumulated their $billions over the decades mostly from English-speaking audiences?

I’m just asking.

1135. Keachick (Rose) - May 7, 2014

Re #1133 – *further explanation*
Surely Scotty, Chief Engineering, would need to file his own report about the soundness or otherwise of the engineering systems on the Enterprise and include any and all situations/stresses that the ship would have had to deal with. Travelling and sitting within an alien ocean for any length of time (24 hours in this case) would have definitely necessitated filing of a report as to how the ship’s systems stood up etc. Would not his report have been read along with Kirk and Spock’s reports regarding Nibiru? The first and obvious question would be asked – why and where was the Enterprise under water? That’s the 00.01% that does require further explanation.

1136. Oscar - May 7, 2014

Again, STID plot is ludicrous. The best deconstruction of this piece of …is David Mack’s analysis, you nu trekkers should read it.
I quote:
So, let’ s review: they have cured death, they can cross hundreds of light years in a blink of warp speed, communicate insantaneously
Across insterstellar distances using handhold-communicators, they can build massives superdreadnought space ship inside the solar system of their Capitol, without anyone noticing…»
No science, idiocies…
If you want to read the whole analysis:
http://www.davidmack.pro/blog/?p=4532#more-4532
Kurtzman and Orci destroyed Star Trek and now they are destroying Spider man. Mediocre producers and writers.
If Orci is the head honcho of the next star trek film, if he is your general Robert Lee, nu trekkers, the annyversary film will be the Gettysburg of this so called abramsverse. Your Pickett’ s charge can not divert this .future

1137. I am not Herbert - May 7, 2014

Cygnus-X1 makes A LOT of sense… ;-)

1138. Keachick (Rose) - May 7, 2014

#1134 – Wow. Interesting…hmmm

First off, you appear to be making the assumption that overseas, non English speaking audiences, by and large, do not have the same level of education that most people in the English speaking west have. The other assumption made here is that these countries, China and Russia (the two countries you highlighted) do not have linguists who have a good grounding in the English language, as well as others who understand scientific and other principles. Are you saying that good translations cannot be made and good voice over actors are not available?

Given that most of European countries and many Asian countries have English as a compulsory subject in their education systems and no doubt include subjects like the sciences and mathematics in their curricula as well, I would say that many audiences might be almost as well equipped to understand both “dumbed down” as well as not “dumbed down” concepts as many of us English speaking folk appear to be so equipped. Comprehension is at times not very good, even when an idea is supposedly “dumbed down” and this can be seen on this site and other sites which are frequented predominately by English speakers.

1139. Keachick (Rose) - May 7, 2014

Re #1124 – In citing Russia and China in particular, it should be borne in mind is that (Soviet) Russia has had its own space programme for as long as the US, if not longer. Now China has its own as well. All three countries have had nuclear technology for quite some time – both for peaceful purposes and for weaponry.

Gotta go – wow again…:(

1140. Mike Barnett - May 7, 2014

1136. Oscar
Give it up, my friend. I happen to love this big-budget version of Star Trek (aka nuTrek). The producers found an ideal way to update Star Trek – and the average joe seems to like it. For Trek to survive, it needed to adapt to what the global audience desires. I’ve been a Trek fan since 1966 and I like nuTrek….and there is no way you can change my mind. I also realize there’s no way I can change your mind. So let’s move on and talk about something new.

1141. Cygnus-X1 - May 7, 2014

1138. Keachick (Rose) – May 7, 2014

#1134 – Wow. Interesting…hmmm

First off, you appear to be making the assumption that overseas, non English speaking audiences, by and large, do not have the same level of education that most people in the English speaking west have. The other assumption made here is that these countries, China and Russia (the two countries you highlighted) do not have linguists who have a good grounding in the English language, as well as others who understand scientific and other principles. Are you saying that good translations cannot be made and good voice over actors are not available?

No. I am making neither of those assumptions.

The studios are making movies more action-oriented in order to appeal to the foreign market, mostly China and Russia.

I’m pretty sure that I’ve read that the reason for the demand for more action from the foreign market is that they don’t speak English and therefore, (1) the movies must be subtitled, which they’d rather not read too much of; (2) the movies are voiced-over, but much is lost in translation. It could also be, (3) Russians and Chinese people just like action more than drama. But, for the sake of argument, let’s say that I’m assuming (1) and (2), though I do seem to remember reading that those were factors.

Intelligence is not at issue. Literacy in English is at issue. It’s just not their native language.

But, regardless of why the studios are forsaking the domestic market in favor of the foreign market, the fact is that they are doing it! Otherwise, there’d be no articles talking about how the studios are tailoring their movies to the action-demanding foreign market, which is now a much larger source of revenue than the domestic market.

1142. Cygnus-X1 - May 7, 2014

1138. Keachick (Rose) – May 7, 2014

Gotta go – wow again…:(

P.S. And you can keep your judgmental frowny face that you gave me without even understanding what I was saying.

1143. Cygnus-X1 - May 7, 2014

P.P.S.

1138. Keachick (Rose) – May 7, 2014

Even more at issue than the translation in voiced-over movies is the lack of sync between the dialogue and the people on-screen speaking it. It’s just not nearly as compelling watching a dramatic or comedic scene—a scene involving plenty of dialogue—when you’re all too aware that the people on screen are not saying what you’re hearing. It takes you out of the movie.

So, the v/o and the subtitles are both distractions from the movie. I don’t blame the Chinese and the Russians for wanting to minimize both of those, but the result is that American-made movies are being dumbed-down to accommodate the foreign market. Once again, this is not to imply that foreign audiences are dumb, but merely that they don’t speak English and want as little talking as possible in the movie.

1144. Ahmed - May 7, 2014

@1143. Cygnus-X1

When I was in Egypt from mid 1990s to late 2010s, it was very hard to see a decent drama movie in theaters. Film distributors just won’t release “talky” movies like Glengarry Glen Ross, Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil, The Big Lebowski, Reservoir Dogs & many other movies. They will send it directly to home videos.

ST09 was the first Trek movie ever to be released in theaters in Egypt, none of the previous ones, even First Contact were released in theaters.

And the reason is simple, the majority of the audiences don’t understand English & they prefer movies with more action & little dialogue.

Here is an interesting article about film distribution in Egypt & the Middle East

“The Middle East’s major theatrical distributors are based in the three key hubs of Beirut, Cairo and Dubai. They focus on crowd-pleasing Bollywood titles, Hollywood blockbusters and Egyptian comedies, which are popular throughout the region. There is little space for either local or foreign independent cinema. However there are a growing number of initiatives aimed at promoting local and world cinema titles to MENA audiences.”

http://www.screendaily.com/features/distributors-screen-battles/5064650.article

1145. Cygnus-X1 - May 7, 2014

1144. Ahmed – May 7, 2014

ST09 was the first Trek movie ever to be released in theaters in Egypt, none of the previous ones, even First Contact were released in theaters.

And the reason is simple, the majority of the audiences don’t understand English & they prefer movies with more action & little dialogue.

Ah ha, good to get the “foreign market” perspective. And it makes perfect sense. Thank you for that corroboration.

The problem is compounded by the business strategy, as Lucas and Spielberg have pointed out, whereby the studios are putting so many of their eggs in a small number of foreign-market-tailored action movies. Consequent to that strategy is that a larger and larger percentage of movies which are not straight-up drama or comedy are being tailored to the foreign market, and that’s an increasingly larger portion of the total movies made. So, your Silver Linings Playbook isn’t going to suffer, as it’s not close to being an action movie and can’t reasonably be turned into one. But your BR Trek 3, which in theory could be very dramatic (like TWOK) or evenly balanced drama/action (like First Contact), will be dictated by the studio to be made into a full-on action movie and thereby tailored to the foreign market.

1146. Cygnus-X1 - May 7, 2014

P.S. And it really has gotten ridiculous. Anyone who hasn’t seen the Plinkett review of STID (and the other Trek films) at: http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-trek/ really should drop what they’re doing and immediately go there to watch them. In addition to being riotously entertaining and funny, they’re extremely insightful about Trek and movies in general. At any rate, one of the things that Plinkett points out is that, in ST09, nobody ever walks anywhere. Everyone has got to be running at all times, unless the action is on a ship zooming through space. With the overabundance of action in the BR Trek movies, I can almost hear some Paramount exec instructing JJ Abrams, “OK, so, we’re clear on the action, right? We want lots of action! And when you’re done, put in some extra action just for good measure! Can’t have too much action! The foreign market wants action!”

1147. Phil - May 7, 2014

Wow…not sure if we could be more condescending of foreign audiences if we tried. Look what we have given you foreigners!! A movie chock full of bright shiny objects! Actors running around!! And boobies!! Come see our movie.

1148. I am not Herbert - May 7, 2014

whatever… spin-meister Phil… LOL (eyesroll) (you don’t understand either)

hint: investigate the concept of empathy ;-)

1149. I am not Herbert - May 7, 2014

Smaug is pretty darn excellent! …turned-up the surround-sound every time Smaug (Cumberbatch) was speaking!! AWESOME!!! =D

1150. Cygnus-X1 - May 8, 2014

1147. Phil – May 7, 2014

Wow…not sure if we could be more condescending of foreign audiences if we tried. Look what we have given you foreigners!!

Sure you could. If you wanted to be condescending, you wouldn’t say this:

Intelligence is not at issue. Literacy in English is at issue. It’s just not their native language.

You’d just call them stupid and conclude that’s why they want more action. If you wanted to be “condescending,” that is.

Though, I’m not sure that you have a good understanding what “condescending” means, Phil. (That’s condescending.)

1151. Cygnus-X1 - May 8, 2014

Anybody else wanna misconstrue what I said?

I got two…lookin’ for the trifecta….

1152. Cygnus-X1 - May 8, 2014

A compounding issue is that—and I’m going out on a limb here, so maybe Ahmed can confirm or correct this point as well—40 years of Trekdom, from TOS through ENT, doesn’t have all of the meaning and significance for “foreigners” as it does for English-speaking people, simply because (here it is again) they don’t speak English.

Again, I’m just taking a guess here, but I don’t think that Chinese and Russian audiences get caught up in or care about things like consistency in the classic Trek characters, backstories, and general Trek ethos. To most, if not all of them, “Star Trek” is just the latest American action movie, nothing more.

To English-speakers, on the other hand, even those who are just casual fans or mainstream audiences with general knowledge of Star Trek, the characters are icons with certain cultural significance. Even non-Trekkies Americans have observed and read about the influence that Trek has had on American-made technology (cell phones, iPad, etc.), if not on other aspects of our culture.

So, this time, I am making a certain assumption about foreign audiences (Assumption Police, I plead guilty as charged).

But, even if that assumption is not true, and Trek means just as much to foreign audiences as it does to English-speaking audiences, if Paramount wants to supply the foreign market with action movies, they can do that without turning Trek into an action franchise, which it was never meant to be. (And if, perchance, foreign audiences are as savvy about Trek as English-speaking audiences, then surely they must notice that the BR Trek movies are much more action-oriented and very different in tone than Trek has traditionally been).

You can make an action movie out of pretty much anything, especially if you’ve got CGI technology. I’m not well versed on the portfolio of Paramount Pictures properties, but there must be plenty of actionable properties in there if they don’t feel like actually inventing a new one like studios used to do waaaaaaay back in the 20th Century.

What it seems like to me is that, to Paramount, “Star Trek” is simply just another property that they have acquired over the years and one to be exploited for no purpose greater than pecuniary return. If, on the other hand, the Star Trek franchise were owned by a person or corporation to whom it meant more than just investment returns, they’d treat it like it deserves to be treated and wouldn’t be whoring and tricking it out to the largest market.

“93 Yuan — any kinda Star Trek you want, baby.” ;-)

1153. Disinvited - May 8, 2014

“Scientists create living organism with ‘alien’ DNA”:

http://www.utahpeoplespost.com/2014/05/scientists-create-living-organism-with-alien-dna/

1154. Oscar - May 8, 2014

1140.
Not true. They prefer easy choices. A gijoe transformers type movies. It is not the only way. You can shoot intelligent blockbusters and earn more money: Dark Knight, Captain America, the winter soldier…
Interstellar will be an anti abrams film and it will earn more money th an STID.
This new reboot is an ill update. Star Trek needs a Nolan, not a mediocre overrated showman. Star Trek needs more intelligent ideas, not more mindless blockbuster with more spectacle th an substance.

1155. Keachick (Rose) - May 8, 2014

I believe that BBC shows like Sherlock are very popular in places like Japan, Russia and China. There is some action but there is also quite a bit of subtle dialogue etc, some of it comedic (English eccentricity) and drama.

Movies heavy on action have always been one of the genres that Hollywood has produced, along with other genres like romantic, comedy, drama. English speaking audiences were treated to many a war film during WW2 and thereafter. There have always been English speaking audiences who like film heavy on action with little in the way of dialogue and these may well be some of the same people who may also enjoy a drama saturated with reasonably intelligent dialogue.

I notice that the very action oriented TASM2 is number one in the US Box Office as have other similar movies like the Transformers series been in the US. To me, it appears that the film makers are simply appealing to a certain kind of audience who not only reside in non-English speaking countries but also in our countries.

As far as scenes of characters walking, as opposed to running, both BR Star Trek had those.

I think there are two reasons why there appear to be more of these types of films
1 – the newer technology which can do motion capture, CGI, and various special effects (much of it developed in order to make the LOTR and Hobbit trilogies), which means that movie makers can take some of the fantastical, over-the-top action alluded to in many of the Marvel comics, update and turn them into live action movies

2 – despite a common belief, the reality is that now there are actually more males in the world today than females and in some places the ratio is quite significant. Most of these males are young 12+ years, not necessarily that well educated, but are testosterone driven coming from patriarchal aggressive macho cultures, ie China, India, Russia, Middle East. Our own culture also shares many of these aspects, but there seems to be a better balance in western and English speaking nations and that may have to do with the other reality of the male/female population ratio being more evenly balanced.

#1147 – Could be, but sans the boobies. God forbid that people get to see healthy human flesh not covered in heavy (metallic) armour.

BR Star Trek so far has managed to walk the fine line reasonably well compared with other films. Let’s hope it continues to do so. It could be that audiences in general may be tiring of all the fast paced noisy action and violence and seek a quieter pace…One can hope.

1156. Keachick (Rose) - May 8, 2014

I have yet been able to watch the Dark Knight or the Dark Knight Rises right through. It is the violent action and noise, along with the fact that none of the characters appeal that much, that has me reaching for the remote to press stop or leaving the room.

1157. Oscar - May 8, 2014

I think this is a very intelligent analysis. Bob Greenberger, «star trek into darkness angered me»
http://www.bobgreenberger.com/index.php/2013/05/31/star-trek-into-darkness-angered-me#more-2448

1158. Who cares - May 8, 2014

@1133/Keachick. “Taking the piss” or variations thereof is actually a British expression that spread to the British Commonwealth. It may be common in Australlia and NZ, and other nations in the Commonwealth, but it originates in England. First time I ever heard it was from my ex-wife’s relatives visiting from London.

1159. Phil - May 8, 2014

On further review of comments, yeah, condescension is a pretty accurate word. Also explains why some people only look at the domestic box office in declaring Trek a failure. That foreign box office doesn’t really count, because those people don’t ‘get’ Trek….

1160. star trackie - May 8, 2014

11154 “This new reboot is an ill update. Star Trek needs a Nolan, not a mediocre overrated showman.”

Wrong again. Are you after some sort of record?

1161. I am not Herbert - May 8, 2014

…my understanding is that “taking a piss” is pretty much the same as “full of sh*t”… ;-)

…which DOES apply here, quite often… ;-)

1162. I am not Herbert - May 8, 2014

Star Trek needs a GdT (true artist)… ;-)

…not a pandering, profiteering defiler… =(

1163. I am not Herbert - May 8, 2014

Phil: “A movie chock full of bright shiny objects! Actors running around!! And boobies!!”

LOL! you just described nu-trek in a nutshell ;-)

1164. Ahmed - May 8, 2014

@ 1152. Cygnus-X1 – May 8, 2014

“A compounding issue is that—and I’m going out on a limb here, so maybe Ahmed can confirm or correct this point as well—40 years of Trekdom, from TOS through ENT, doesn’t have all of the meaning and significance for “foreigners” as it does for English-speaking people, simply because (here it is again) they don’t speak English.”

Correct, at least in Egypt & most of the Middle East where I lived for two decades.

TOS: Never broadcasted on the local TV channels
TAS: Season 1 was broadcasted with a voice-over in Arabic
TNG: Only 7 episodes from the first season were broadcasted with Arabic subtitles in 1998!
VOY, DS9 & ENT were never broadcasted on the local TV channels.

After 2002, TNG, VOY, DS9 & ENT were available on Showtime Arabia.

And it is not just Star Trek but other sci-fi series like Babylon 5, Dr. Who ..etc, none of these series were ever broadcasted.

1165. Ahmed - May 8, 2014

@ 1159. Phil – May 8, 2014

“Also explains why some people only look at the domestic box office in declaring Trek a failure. That foreign box office doesn’t really count, because those people don’t ‘get’ Trek….”

Newsflash for you, THEY DON’T GET TREK!

And that is not my saying, that is what Paramount’s head of international distribution Anthony Marcoly said in this interview:

“Basically, it was more action, more of the adventure elements and less of the real Trekkie stuff.”

===============================

‘Star Trek Into Darkness’ Heading Where None Has Gone Before: Foreign Profitability

With focus groups, casting, talent barnstorms and carefully timed openings, Paramount has worked hard to make this the first “Star Trek” movie to score big overseas

Ditch Spock’s ears. Lose the wacky costumes. Don’t have characters spend so much time yakking on the bridge of the Enterprise.

That’s the sort of advice Paramount is heeding as it prepares to open its sci-fi epic “Star Trek Into Darkness” on Thursday in the U.K., Australia and five other countries. Determined to make its sci-fi epic sequel a global hit — unlike any of the preceding “Star Trek” movies — the studio has gone to great lengths to make it more appealing to foreign audiences.

“I guess less Trekkie, more action might be the short story,” Paramount’s head of international distribution Anthony Marcoly told TheWrap Tuesday. “But since I arrived here 18 months ago, a primary part of my mission has been to make sure this movie succeeds at the overseas box office the way it will domestically, and our team has done a great deal to make sure that happens.”

Extensive research, marketing tailored to individual markets, casting designed to resonate with international audiences and extensive ground campaigns by the movie’s creators and talent like Chris Pine have all preceded the international debut. Over the past couple of months, director J.J. Abrams and producer Bryan Burk have barnstormed through Asia, Europe and Latin America, screening extensive clips.

“We did a lot of focus groups in a lot of countries, and asked what they liked and didn’t like and we listened,” Marcoly said. “Basically, it was more action, more of the adventure elements and less of the real Trekkie stuff.” The stuff, in other words, that turned the 1960s TV show into a cultural phenomenon in America and launched the film franchise.

http://www.thewrap.com/movies/article/star-trek-darkness-heading-where-no-trek-has-gone-foreign-profitablity-89981

===============================
CASE CLOSED

1166. I am not Herbert - May 8, 2014

Ahmed: THANK YOU for schooling these chumps! =)

…and for the interesting info re: Star Trek in the Arabic world =)

Would I be wrong in thinking that much of Star Trek philosophy / society would be seen as heretical by the Muslim clerics, and therefore to be shunned / banned?

1167. Mike Barnett - May 8, 2014

1165. Ahmed

Did you hear they found the Titanic? This chump happens to like nuTrek. I think we all would be united Trekkies if CBS/Paramount launched another Trek TV series (while churning out action Trek movies every few years). But the TV series would have to be something different than Berman-Trek. The series will probably need to get TNG-like ratings in order to be successful.

1168. Ahmed - May 8, 2014

@ 1166. I am not Herbert – May 8, 2014

“Ahmed: THANK YOU for schooling these chumps! =)”

No schooling, just facts :-)

“Would I be wrong in thinking that much of Star Trek philosophy / society would be seen as heretical by the Muslim clerics, and therefore to be shunned / banned?”

I’m no scholar when it come to these areas but in general, anything that seem to violates Islamic rules, similar btw to the the Ten Commandments, will be frowned on & even banned.

In general, movies & TV series are subject to heavy censorship in Egypt. Anything that mocks religion or God will be banned.

1169. Ahmed - May 8, 2014

@ 1167. Mike Barnett – May 8, 2014

“I think we all would be united Trekkies if CBS/Paramount launched another Trek TV series (while churning out action Trek movies every few years). But the TV series would have to be something different than Berman-Trek. The series will probably need to get TNG-like ratings in order to be successful.”

Agreed. Everyone will be happy if we get a new & fresh Trek series while Paramount is releasing movies (with more action) every three years or something.

1170. Oscar - May 8, 2014

The fact is, nu trekkers, you are in a no win position.After releasing ST2016 (or 2017), the Abramsverse will dissapear and you will be forcibly disbanded.The original time line will command again. So, you waste your energy. And the fact is the annyversary film has not title, plot, release data, placeholder strategy or director. The main producer is Very busy lobbyng for himself and in other no trek bussines and it seems he can not work as true main producer in star trek because he is very busy lobbyng for himself and in other no trek bussines because of this weird situation the annyversary film has not title, plot, release date, placeholder strategy or director. Maybe Paramount should break this damned circle…dismissing Orci.

1171. Mike Barnett - May 8, 2014

1170 Oscar
I don’t care if new producers take over the movie franchise. Nu-Trek, Nu-Nu-Trek, Alt-Mirror-Nu-Trek is better than no Trek. I’ll view whatever Paramount/CBS puts in front of me. And you’re dreaming regarding Orci. The 2 movies made almost a billion dollars G L O B A L L Y. That’s not a dismissable offense.

1172. I am not Herbert - May 8, 2014

yeah, I tried to fire boborci a long time ago…

no dice: he’s “entrenched”… =(

1173. I am not Herbert - May 8, 2014

Interstellar – Teaser Trailer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=827FNDpQWrQ#t=108

1174. OldDarth - May 8, 2014

Not happy about either of them being involved. STID was meh and the Amazing Spiderman2 a mess. Don’t get me started on the Transformer movies.

Bring in some new blood for writing and directing!

Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman – please stop spreading yourselves so thin.

We the fans are paying the price. Thank you.

1175. Oscar - May 8, 2014

1171.
You can earn money making intelligent movies, Dark Knight , for instance, or you can earn money making silly movies, f.i. Transformers.
Star Trek should make money with intelligent movies. But they want to earn money with star trek gijoe type movies because is easier and because Orci and pals despise Star Trek. Oh, yes they would say it is not true, but the final product is a mindless show. Star Trek deserves much more.
And, STID was in USA an economic fail, and a creative mess.
A propos, the money is not the more important thing. Apocalipsi now o citizen Kane were economic disasters but they both are masterpieces.
The worst voyager tv episode is much better than STID or the very overrated ST2009. Sorry but the bitter truth is Abramsverse one to bye bye adios.

1176. Phil - May 8, 2014

@1175. Apocalypse Now was hardly a financial disaster. Citizen Kane was moderately successful, despite the fact the WR Hearst made it a personal vendetta to destroy the movie.

You keep making up your own facts to justify this increasingly irrational hatred you seem to have for Bad Robot. Apparently you haven’t seen Generations, Final Frontier, or Insurrection, all Trek movies that are the very definition of silly. And the bitter truth is, that as CBS adds Trek themed attractions to it’s portfolio of properties, its very obvious that the Bad Robot version of Trek is going to be around for a very long time.

You can keep making up stories, or casting aspersions on the intelligence or literacy of the foreign audience, but the bottom line is that Bad Robot was tasked to resuscitate a dead franchise, and to build it into a worldwide brand, and to that end, they have been successful. If I have to choose between no Trek, and JJ’s version, JJ’s version gets the nod. I trust they will do better on their next outing…

1177. Ahmed - May 8, 2014

=============================
Can You Believe It’s Already Five Years Since Star Trek (2009) Opened?

After nearly a decade-long absence from the big screen Star Trek warped back into theaters worldwide with Star Trek (2009). Hard as it may be to believe (sic) May 8, will mark the fifth anniversary of its release in the U.S.

The build-up to the release was, in a word, incredible. J.J. Abrams, in his capacities as producer and director, kept a tight lid on every detail of the production, releasing only small crumbs along the way. Each casting announcement was dissected by the fan base. Could Chris Pine really fill William Shatner’s boots as Kirk?

How would Sylar from Heroes fare as Spock? Would Leonard Nimoy as old Spock and Zachary Quinto as new Spock share any scenes?

Any photos from the set sent the Internet into overdrive. Fans broke down the trailers frame by frame.

Then the film opened, and the fur flew again. Some longtime fans loved it and some felt it emphasized action over exploration. And people had a field day debating the merits of lens flares. Whatever anyone’s feelings, this much is true: Star Trek (2009) grossed nearly $400 million worldwide, amassing big numbers in markets Trek had never before penetrated successfully. It re-invigorated the franchise. It made Star Trek relevant again. And, perhaps most importantly, it fostered new fans, many of whom went on to discover the previous Star Trek films and series.

http://www.startrek.com/article/can-you-believe-its-already-five-years-since-star-trek-2009-opened

=============================

Happy 5th anniversary :)

1178. Cygnus-X1 - May 8, 2014

1155. Keachick (Rose) – May 8, 2014

I believe that BBC shows like Sherlock are very popular in places like Japan, Russia and China. There is some action but there is also quite a bit of subtle dialogue etc, some of it comedic (English eccentricity) and drama.

I don’t know about that, but it’s beside the point. I don’t remember the source, whether it was Orci here or an article talking about it—I think it might’ve been Bob—but I distinctly remember it coming out that Paramount polled the foreign market and came back with the directive to make the BR Trek movies super action-packed. Remember Norm MacDonald’s SNL bit in the 90s where the moral of the story was always: Germans love David Hasselhoff? Well, I imagine the moral of foreign movie market poll-testing being read out in like tone: The foreign movie market poll tests are back. The results: FOREIGN AUDIENCES LOVE ACTION.

Foreign audiences also love movies with costumes, flashy visuals and sequels. Why? Again — because they’re easier to follow: http://www.businessinsider.com/hollywood-is-making-films-for-foreign-markets-2012-9

As the article discusses, American audiences had begun to lose interest in the Pirates of the Caribbean movies after the second movie. But, the foreign market still couldn’t get enough. They were just getting warmed up. The more familiar that the characters, look and tone of the movie become, the easier it is to follow, even if you miss some of the dialogue popping up at the bottom of the screen.

So, the issue is not whether foreign audiences like action; they definitely do. At least, that’s what Paramount’s poll-testing showed. Though, it’d be nice if I could recall the thread that that nugget of info came up in. I think it was around January of this year.

Movies heavy on action have always been one of the genres that Hollywood has produced, along with other genres like romantic, comedy, drama. English speaking audiences were treated to many a war film during WW2 and thereafter.

No. Not like this. The kind of non-stop, wall-to-wall, ADD-paced, ceaseless, overabundance of action seen in the BR Trek movies (and others) is absolutely a new thing. Go back and watch The Matrix (1999). PLENTY of action in that movie. Nobody saw The Matrix (1999) and felt dissatisfied due to a lack of action. (Nobody whose opinion should be taken as significantly representative of a substantial audience segment, anyway.) We could go down the list of the great action movies of the 80s and 90s. They all balanced their action with drama more than the BR Trek movies.

So, in conclusion: (1) Foreign audiences love action; and (2) the BR Trek movies are significantly more action-oriented than the action movies of the 80s and 90s.

1179. Cygnus-X1 - May 8, 2014

1165. Ahmed – May 8, 2014

Ah, thank you for the link: http://www.thewrap.com/movies/article/star-trek-darkness-heading-where-no-trek-has-gone-foreign-profitablity-89981

I couldn’t remember how that bit of info had come to us here.

1180. Keachick (Rose) - May 8, 2014

“1161. I am not Herbert – May 8, 2014
…my understanding is that “taking a piss” is pretty much the same as “full of sh*t”… ;-)
…which DOES apply here, quite often… ;-)”

No, it does not mean that. Not exactly. I was not saying to LogicalLeopold what he/she wrote was just “full of sh*t”. The meaning of the expression is more nuanced in that there is a more gentle, jokey, playful quality attached to saying “taking the piss” and is not so downright rude or negative as saying “full of sh*t”. If I had meant “full of sh*t”, “crap”, “rubbish”, I would have written that.

Why the smile emoticons? What is so funny or pleasant in what you just wrote? Continually using emoticons, especially when you are writing what is antithetical to the meaning of these emoticons, is actually quite creepy and yuk.

As far as getting movies to be seen by overseas audiences, which include Middle Eastern and Asian countries, this could explain why scenes of anything that approaches human nakedness do not feature in films or come in the form of a blink and you miss scene. When was the last time any of these later films showed a bare breasted woman? They rarely show bare chested men anymore either.

It is this dehumanization that bothers me when movie makers are subject to foreign (and domestic) censorship which allows for the showing of the most brutal, cruel, gory, destruction, vandalism and can also account for some of the inane running, chasing, cars crashing into one another, ie they become fillers because scenes that demonstrate other ways that humans can behave and communicate might involve some (P)DA of some sort, horror of horrors, ie
Anything that might hint at showing normal loving sexual intimacy and/or the showing of the smallest amount of human flesh (that we are created to have and grew into) gets banned.

All because these societies are still chained by heinous sexist patriarchal macho values and attitudes even more so than our society is.This is what I would describe degrading and dehumanizing – an insult to our (higher) psycho-physical natures.

1181. Cygnus-X1 - May 8, 2014

1176. Phil – May 8, 2014

You can keep making up stories, or casting aspersions on the intelligence or literacy of the foreign audience,

Nobody is disparaging the foreign audience as generally lacking intelligence, and my remarks regarding “literacy” were CLEARLY with regard to literacy in THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE for non-English-speakers.

Perhaps you’d be good enough to stop willfully misrepresenting my argument, after I’ve made it ABUNDANTLY CLEAR that I was not disparaging foreign audiences as lacking intelligence.

1182. Cygnus-X1 - May 8, 2014

And just to make it even MORE clear, let me turn the tables on myself.

I enjoyed Run Lola Run (1998), a German-language movie, for the same reasons that non-English-speakers like American action movies: The dialogue was very sparse and most of the movie was told with action rather than with words. Being a non-German-speaker, I appreciated not having to read much on the bottom of the screen yet still being able to stay (relatively) in the moment during the movie.

And, in case Phil or anyone else STILL doesn’t get the point, I will repeat it very plainly and simply:

At issue is NOT the intelligence of foreign audiences, but rather their relatively lower literacy in THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE. I’ve no doubt that Russian and Chinese people are generally intelligent and literate in their native languages.

1183. Keachick (Rose) - May 8, 2014

What do you suggest that Paramount and other movie companies do about it?

Should they lower their sights and make films just for the English speaking countries and US domestic market when, clearly, many of these audiences also love these over-the-top action fests as well?

I believe that Hollywood has always considered itself an export industry as well as one delivering to the domestic market. The audiences now are far bigger and involve people who may not speak English nor share the same basic cultural background.
——————————————–
I was thinking about the comment made about STID as just being one big action/running/jumping/shooting etc scene after another. The reality of what is ACTUALLY contained in the film is not as has been described. That description is somewhat erroneous.

Gotta go… be back to explain, later…

The real

1184. Hugh Hoyland - May 8, 2014

Dang I cant wait until the next film is released or the next series that hads nothing to do with TNG, DS9, Voyager or ENT so these people that continually bash the re-birth of trek will finally either join the ranks or go away.

Dang are they pest.

1185. Disinvited - May 8, 2014

Looks like Creation has done it YET again:

Boldly go where no fan has gone before at THE OFFICIAL STAR TREK CONVENTION, an action-packed weekend filled with stars from all versions of the Trek universe, plus events, parties, contests, music, panels and more. This year’s convention also celebrates the 50th anniversary year of Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry’s amazing legacy.

The last date listed for THE OFFICIAL STAR TREK CONVENTION was Sunday April 27, 2014 / All Day.

We’re late, Jim.

1186. Disinvited - May 8, 2014

Check it out for yourself here:

goldstar.com/events/cherry-hill-nj/the-official-star-trek-convention-1

1187. Commodore Adams - May 8, 2014

lol wow…never a dull moment in the trek movie discussions. Such colourful
language.

Most people have mentioned Frakes and Nimoy directing, they did well. But Shatner…”Star Trek V: Who Let Shatner Write and Direct.. Damn! + Rock People”

How about…Kirk dying in Into Darkness, resurrected in the next movie giving way to “Star Trek 3: The Search for Kirk”
hmm? hmm?

I still have confidence in Bob and now in J.D. and Pat. Its an interesting trio and I’m excited to see what they do.

Often the actors not wanting to sign once the contract is up is what kills a series but I wouldn’t mind seeing more than 3 reboot movies, 5 sounds nice. Im making the 40+ year old people cringe.

Don’t be a Herbert.

You have your orders.
Commodore Adams

1188. Disinvited - May 8, 2014

# 1171. Mike Barnett – May 8, 2014

“The 2 [Orci Trek] movies made almost a billion dollars G L O B A L L Y. That’s not a dismissable offense” — Mike Barnett

The 3 Raimi SPIDERMAN movies made $2.5 billion G L O B A L L Y and Sony found that it was, indeed, “a dismissable offense”.

1189. Disinvited - May 9, 2014

On Letterman tonight, James Franco said he hired Gia Coppola, who has never directed before, to directed his film production of PALO ALTO [Opens today May 9th] solely based on her photography.

1190. Stephan - May 9, 2014

@boborci:

Hey bob, I don’t know how regular you are reading here, but I want tu suggest: What about bringing back Guinan to Trek 3. Whoopi would love to be in Star Trek again. Link:

http://1701news.com/node/612/whoopi-goldberg-eyes-star-trek-3.html

Maybe she could be some kind of wise guidance to the young crew while she knows everything about the prime universe and the alternate universe.

Stephan

1191. Mike Barnett - May 9, 2014

1188. Disinvited
OK, I hear you! I guess my main point was that some of our friends on this site seem to ignore the G L O B A L numbers in their arguments.
I think (hope?) that Bob Orci brings the next film back to a better balance between action and non-action. Maybe they can make a different version of the film for USA. I enjoyed STiD but I really miss the dialog between the characters….especially between Kirk, Spock and Bones. I know 2 hrs running time is the goal but I always wondered if they could have added 5 to 10 minutes to STID and have more dialog (and let the audience rest a bit from the action scenes.

Is anyone here a fan of Community on NBC? They have a slogan: 6 seasons and a MOVIE!
I think us Trekkies should adopt this: Three movies and a TV series!

Bring Star Trek back home to TV – where it belongs.

1192. Captain Slow - May 9, 2014

@ 1191 Mike Barnett

I really want a series, but I’m not sure I want a series made in this current era of TV. I know a lot of people think that TV has never been better but I am of the opinion that it has never been worse. There isn’t a single fiction series that I want to watch. Every time I hear a description of one it sounds horrible. So given that Hollywood usually just imitates what’s popular I’d prefer to wait until things change. Or my other preference which is an animated series.

1193. Mad Mann - May 9, 2014

@ 1184. Hugh Hoyland – May 8, 2014

I am hoping for a Captain Sulu TV series in the nuTrek universe. Just to have some good ol’ fashion Trek back on the small screen.

1194. Curious Cadet - May 9, 2014

@1192 Captain Slow,
“There isn’t a single fiction series I want to watch”

That’s too bad. Really. There’s some fine dramatic TV out there now. Mainstream network has a lot of procedural dramas currently, which I think is a bit long in the tooth, but they just keep coming. Do we really need another NCIS with Scott Bakula? Nevertheless … I wouldn’t mind a new sci-fi series: “Leonard McCoy MD”

1195. Mad Mann - May 9, 2014

@ Captain Slow.

I agree with Curious Cadet, there is some great TV on the air right now. The best TV series, IMHO, EVER just ended last year: Breaking Bad. There are other good shows out there for almost every genre, you just gotta give them a chance. Yeah, a Dr. McCoy series would also be awesome, and Karl Urban would definitly star in a TV show since his last one was just cancelled.

BTW: Yes, even as a hard-core Trek fan, I rate Breaking Bad higher than anything, including Trek. No other show had me and my wife as invested in the story and characters as that one. It had the best writing and acting I have ever seen in any incarnation.

1196. Captain Slow - May 9, 2014

@ 1193 Mad Mann

That could be cool, but do you think Cho has the skills to carry a series? I haven’t seen him in anything else so I can’t comment on that.

Curious Cadet

I guess the best way to say it is that the current style of TV isn’t for me. I don’t want to see a dark gore-fest with no likable characters. I don’t want zombies or vampires. I want a good, fun sci-fi series with great characters and interesting stories. Basically, the way the movies are now but as a series (although many people will disagree with my opinion of the current movies).

1197. LogicalLeopard - May 9, 2014

1133. Keachick (Rose) – May 7, 2014
#1131 – Sorry. “Taking the piss” might be a kiwi/aussie expression that others are not so familiar with. It means “making fun of”, “joking with an element of satire or sarcasm attached”. That is the best way of explaining the expression as far as I am aware.

******************

Ah, I get it. Well, yeah, I was concerning the whole wedding scene. But concerning the first point, no, I wasn’t joking. Although I know that Kirk-prime is supposed to be married to the Enterprise, we have a Kirk here who has only been affiliated with Starfleet for, what, about four years? His father died before he was born, didn’t get a chance to raise him, and he was raised by a domineering uncle instead. Considering that he’s had to face death himself and apologize to his crew, then face ACTUAL death later, if Carol told him that she were pregnant, he’d probably say to himself. “Okay, I love what I do, but I’m not going to ship this kid off to my brother George (which of course, would turn out bad) while me and Carol go gallivanting around the universe. I know how it was for me, and I’m not putting him through that, or risking my life anymore. Been there, done that, saved Earth, saved the universe from being dominated by Khan, saved the Enterprise. Enough. I’m going to be a father.”

1198. Who cares - May 9, 2014

It’s funny, in a pathetic sort of way, that this Oscar chump keeps harping on STID’s slight underperformance in the US theatrical market. I guess he has not seen any of the hundreds of articles in the last several years talking about how the movie studios only expect US domestic to account for 40 percent of the Box office gross, and they want the international to be the other 60 percent. STID is the first Trek movie to even come close to that breakdown.

Slight, btw, is how Paramount described the difference in domestic grosses between ST09 and STID.

Such a waste of time even trying to talk reason to this dipsh-t.

PS- I am not a “nu-trek fan” or an “old trek fan” I am a Trek Fan period, every movie, every series, every episode, no exceptions.

1199. Ahmed - May 9, 2014

Looks like Bob might gets the job after all !!

==========================================
Roberto Orci Frontrunner To Helm ‘Star Trek 3′

After an aggressive lobbying campaign, Roberto Orci has emerged as the clear frontrunner to replace JJ Abrams and direct Paramount‘s third installment of the Star Trek series.

I’m hearing they’re in talks. This comes after Orci parted company with longtime partner Alex Kurtzman (though they continue on TV projects). This would amount to another first-time director taking on a massive project, which has been hit (Snow White And The Huntsman) and miss (Transcendence, John Carter, 47 Ronin).

Orci could be an exception on the positive side of the ledger because he has been involved for so long as writer and producer in shaping such big scale films as the Star Trek films as well as the Transformers and Amazing Spider-Man movies.

I’m told that Paramount’s partner, Skydance Productions, has been in Orci’s corner, but Paramount needed convincing. Now it all could happen at warp speed. Abrams helmed the first two films from his home base at Paramount, but surprised the studio by agreeing to relaunch the Star Wars franchise and direct the first film, at Disney.

http://www.deadline.com/2014/05/roberto-orci-frontrunner-to-helm-star-trek-3/

1200. Ahmed - May 9, 2014

From Collider

====================================
Roberto Orci in Talks to Direct STAR TREK 3

Paramount Pictures is nearing its director choice for Star Trek 3, and the name is sure to make plenty (rightfully) wary of the upcoming sci-fi sequel. With J.J. Abrams busy in a galaxy far, far away for the foreseeable future, Paramount has been searching for a new director to take the helm of the lucrative Trek franchise. They came close with Attack the Block director Joe Cornish, but the filmmaker subsequently backed out due to his reluctance to step into an already established franchise.

A few weeks ago, we heard that Star Trek and Star Trek Into Darkness scribe Roberto Orci was lobbying hard for the job complete with Abrams’ blessing, and now it appears that the screenwriter/producer is in formal negotiations to make his directorial debut on Trek 3.

The folks over at Deadline report that Roberto Orci has emerged as the clear frontrunner to direct Star Trek 3 and is now in talks to take the helm. Though he has not directed before, Orci has been intimately involved in the Trek franchise as a writer and producer since the 2009 reboot, and has plenty of experience crafting large-scale tentpole films.

Along with his writing partner Alex Kurtzman, Orci has penned the screenplays for blockbuster films like Transformers, Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen, Mission: Impossible III, and most recently The Amazing Spider-Man 2. As such, he won’t be entirely out of his element should he find himself in control of the Trek franchise.

But Orci’s involvement as the Captain of Star Trek is troubling for other reasons. His screenplays are heavily tailored to match studio interests and appeal to the widest possible audiences, resulting in mostly bland and forgettable scripts.

Moreover, his controversial ideologies sometimes bleed heavily into his work, as evidenced by all the “false flag” stuff from Into Darkness. I really want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but at this point I’m highly skeptical of an Orci-led Star Trek film.

At least in the first two movies we had the counterbalance of Abrams and, to a lesser extent, Damon Lindelof, but if Orci does indeed take over as director, Trek 3 will be all his; he’s even writing the screenplay with two of his protégés, J.D. Payne and Patrick McKay.

http://collider.com/star-trek-3-roberto-orci-director/

1201. Spock's Bangs - May 9, 2014

“But Orci’s involvement as the Captain of Star Trek is troubling for other reasons. His screenplays are heavily tailored to match studio interests and appeal to the widest possible audiences, resulting in mostly bland and forgettable scripts.”

The amazing job he and his partner did crafting the first two Trek movies renders this complaint null and void in my book. In fact, their writing were assets to those films. I’m ready, bring on Orci. Haters gonna hate regardless.

FACT!

1202. Ahmed - May 9, 2014

They should have kept “Almost Human”.

=======================================
NBC Cancels ‘Revolution’ After Two Seasons: This marks the second J.J. Abrams-produced drama to be canceled this month, joining Fox’s “Almost Human.”

NBC continued to firm up its lineup for the 2014-15 broadcast season, axing drama Revolution after two seasons.

Hardly the ratings heavyweight it was early in its freshman season, Revolution made up for its softer numbers with remarkable consistency and handsome DVR growth. The sophomore season of the J.J. Abrams-produced Warner Bros. Television drama has averaged a 1.4 rating in the key demo in live-plus-same day viewing and improved to a 2.4 rating after seven days. (sic) The news comes as NBC has picked up DC Comics-themed Hellblazer drama Constantine to series, it joins dramas Odyssey, Constantine, Mysteries of Laura and Allegiance at the network.

For Abrams, meanwhile, Revolution’s cancellation comes a week after Fox canceled his Almost Human after one season. The prolific producer still has CBS’ already renewed Person of Interest and NBC’s bubble drama Believe in contention.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/nbc-cancels-revolution-two-seasons-702740

1203. Elias Javalis - May 9, 2014

He will do great! Best of luck Bob!

1204. Cygnus-X1 - May 9, 2014

1183. Keachick (Rose) – May 8, 2014

What do you suggest that Paramount and other movie companies do about it?

What do I suggest? Little ol’ me?

(1) I suggest the board of directors elect a CEO with A BIT of artistic vision who actually cares about movies, specifically the Paramount properties, beyond mere pecuniary exploitation, i.e. someone who recognizes the cultural value and long-term financial potential of Star Trek and sees the way to best preserve both.

Should they lower their sights and make films just for the English speaking countries and US domestic market when, clearly, many of these audiences also love these over-the-top action fests as well?

(2) I suggest that if they are going to pander to the ADD audience—and certainly movie studios pandering to audiences is nothing new—that they be respectful and discrete (and discreet) about it. Make the ADD action movies out of appropriate properties and screenplays. Don’t turn a long-running, culturally important science fiction franchise into a popcorn-munching, fleetingly pleasurable, big-dumb-action series.

I believe that Hollywood has always considered itself an export industry as well as one delivering to the domestic market. The audiences now are far bigger and involve people who may not speak English nor share the same basic cultural background.

(3) I suggest that if they make their foreign-market-targeted movies out of screenplays specifically written for that purpose instead of making them out of Trek. In so doing, they might well invent some new, profitable franchises that they can continue exploiting for many years to come. The foreign market likes sequels and action because they’re easier to follow. So, start with a simple, new action movie. Something simple and very visually oriented. Then make sequels. Don’t use Trek for that purpose.

(4) I suggest that the board of directors elect a CEO who understands how and why the studio was profitable prior to the advent of home-video revenue, and who understands how to produce new movie premises instead of robotically churning out reboots and sequels.

1205. Mad Mann - May 9, 2014

I wonder if Paramount is drastically cutting the budget for this next movie. If Mr. Orci has indeed won the job, it might be due to the fact that Para has cut the budget since they would not trust a first time director with a large budget.

Since a lot of the groundwork has been already made with sets and costumes from the first two movies, I would think they can afford to go cheap on this one. For me, that is a plus. I would think that the action would then be forced to be more starship-on-starhip instead of man-on-man (or alien) since the CGI stuff in space would be cheaper than creating large set pieces and doing live-action action. And yes, I want more space battles with Kirk in the captain’s chair. A smaller budget could force that. Also, it would focus the movie more on story and character as opposed to action and spectacle.

1206. Ahmed - May 9, 2014

@ 1191. Mike Barnett – May 9, 2014

“Is anyone here a fan of Community on NBC? They have a slogan: 6 seasons and a MOVIE!”

Apparently NBC isn’t a fan !!!

=============================

NBC Cancels ‘Community’ After Five Seasons: The series from Dan Harmon will fall short of its “six seasons and a movie” goal.

Dan Harmon’s cult comedy Community will not achieved its goal of #SixSeasonsAndAMovie.

The recently concluded fifth season of the Sony Pictures Television series will be its last, The Hollywood Reporter has learned. Harmon, who returned as showrunner for season five following a tumultuous run in which he criticized NBC, originally envisioned season five as the show’s final run, though NBC’s comedy woes briefly left the door open for the Joel McHale starrer to return for another round.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/nbc-cancels-community-five-seasons-701267

1207. Marja - May 9, 2014

Cygnus elect a CEO with A BIT of artistic vision who actually cares about movies, specifically the Paramount properties, beyond mere pecuniary exploitation, i.e. someone who recognizes the cultural value and long-term financial potential of Star Trek and sees the way to best preserve both.

Intelligent fans can hope. I know we all have our fingers crossed.

But sadly, I think expediency and $$$ rule the day. It makes me so sad for Trek.

“ADD audience” ;-P … alas.

1208. I am not Herbert - May 9, 2014

Cygnus-X1 continues to make A LOT of sense… =)

OF COURSE boborci will direct! Nobody else is stupid / desperate enough to take the job! d’uh! =P

Intelligent fans cannot cope… (nu-trek sucks) =(

1209. I am not Herbert - May 9, 2014

…haven’t seen Transcendence, but I liked John Carter (of Mars)! =)

…now 47 Ronin SUCKS @$$ =( (but it’s definitely not the director’s fault)

1210. I am not Herbert - May 9, 2014

…that being said, boborci should retire from the creative side, and just produce.

boborci is NOT AN ARTIST. boborci sh*ts PRODUCT.

SWEET PROFITABLE PANDERING PRODUCT =(

1211. Cygnus-X1 - May 9, 2014

1206. Ahmed – May 9, 2014

@ 1191. Mike Barnett – May 9, 2014

NBC Cancels ‘Community’ After Five Seasons: The series from Dan Harmon will fall short of its “six seasons and a movie” goal.

I loved that show until Harmon split after Season 3.

It was immediately evident with Season 4 that the new showrunners were merely superficially imitating the style of Harmon. Sony got Harmon back for Season 5. I’ve only seen a few episodes of Season 5. One was decent, the rest were pretty lame. So, I’m not at all surprised that the show’s being cancelled. Seasons 1-3 will be classics and I look forward to watching them again on Netflix or whatever.

1212. Curious Cadet - May 9, 2014

@1177. Ahmed,
“Happy 5th anniversary :)”

Speaking of which, can you believe next weekend will mark the one year domestic anniversary of STID (it opened this week of course internationally)?

So let me revisit the US box office rankings now:

#10 – Calendar (1/1/13-12/31/13)
#11 – All 2013 Releases to Close (1/1/13-5/8/14)
#11 – Past 365 (5/15/13-5/14/14)

1213. Keachick - May 9, 2014

Here we go again – I am not Herbert and others making derogatory comments about the intelligence of those who do like BR Star Trek. You have really no idea what the range of intelligence and education are of those commenting here, other than the education, ie ability of write English, tends to be quite good. Then there is the constant and insulting comments made about these (younger) audiences having ADD etc. These kinds of comments are disrespectful and ignorant. ADD is an actual condition and no fun to have. Leave out the “quarter back” pop diagnoses…

Now, some go after international audiences, that the exporting Hollywood film industry has always been about attracting as well as customers closer to home. International audience are now seen as the ones mostly responsible for the plethora of very action-driven, and at times, over-the-top fantastical mayhem/noise and violence. This is because, so we are told, they are do not have good enough English skills, so these audiences can only cope/enjoy the more violent/action orientated movies with little dialogue…

I am not sure that this is necessarily true of a lot of *non-English foreign film goers who watch movies made for an English speaking audience.

All this leads me to believe that these “haters” have not much else to latch onto in order to continue their assault on these ST films that do not completely conform to their own (narrow) vision of what they think Star Trek was/is/should be.

Star Trek was always part of the action/adventure genre, coming hopefully (GR’s wish/vision) with thought provoking situations and good character driven dialogue. Sometimes we’ve been given that, other times not.

1214. dmduncan - May 9, 2014

JJ lost THREE shows, Believe, Almost Human, and Revolution.

I predicted the last two would fail, but after seeing only one commercial for Believe, I forgot about its existence entirely, and thus did not predict anything for it.

1215. dmduncan - May 9, 2014

I liked Community. I hope hope it returns.

1216. Oscar - May 9, 2014

Abrams wants Orci to direct ST because Abrams despises Star Trek . Paramount wants Orci to direct ST because Orci will be a puppet director.
If Orci is the director of the next st film I’m done with star trek films.
Seriously, a huge number of fans will say good bye adios.

The annyversary will not be a happy trek party but a no mercy war, pro Orci vs anti Orci. A two years war. A Attrition war, seriously they hate Star Trek. And they hate trekkers.

1217. Jonboc - May 9, 2014

…I’m sorry, did Oscar say something??

1218. Red Dead Ryan - May 9, 2014

Oscar “The Grouch” is just being himself as usual.

1219. Keachick (Rose) - May 9, 2014

#1217 – I dunno. Something about a war – perhaps “it’s the war that Marcus always wanted” blah, blah, blah…

Oscar claims that if Roberto Orci does get the director’s job that he’s done with Star Trek. He also says that a huge number of fans will say goodbye adios, except that they won’t. If only they would actually mean what they say as in say goodbye adios and actually, really, truly bugger off!

If only they would just leave us “ADD-afflicted”, “mainstream”, “lowest common denominator” plebes to enjoy whatever Star Trek 3 has to offer.

Meanwhile, Oscar and co. can find some other to latch onto and offer their usual fare there. I mean, us “sycophants” (thanks, I am not Herbert, for that) are generous folk. We would not want to deny these others the pleasure of reading that they may also be similarly afflicted (ie ADD, MS-LCD etc) or have their sensibilities and intelligences also impugned…

1220. Keachick (Rose) - May 9, 2014

There is all this debate about STID not doing so well with domestic audiences. There have been quite a number of movies that are considered very action-orientated, fantastical over-the-top that have done better at the US Box Office. The trailer to the latest Spiderman film reminded me of the fantastical animated film The Incredibles, which was quite far-fetched but nevertheless very entertaining.

Both BR Star Trek did not have the kinds of scenes that many of these Marvel based films have had. The scenes, albeit noisy, violent, destructive, have been more realistic. Perhaps the reason why STID did not do as well is because it was not as hyped and over-the-top as these other movies. STID did better overseas because it was not as “out there”.

These other films are based on comic books, cartoons or toy characters aimed initially at boys in particular aged between 8 and 13. Star Trek did not start its life in that manner, which means that what we see in these films can never be as outrageously crazy etc etc as can the movies based on comic/cartoon heroes and so on.

I am beginning to think that some of you have got it so very wrong…

1221. boborcci - May 9, 2014

1216. OSCAR

If I am fortunate enough to get the gig, iI hope you will change your mind and I hope I will do something you will enjoy.

1222. I am not Herbert - May 9, 2014

…now Incredibles is a damn good movie! =D

Star Trek rendered in that fashion would be… Incredible!! =D

1223. I am not Herbert - May 9, 2014

other than that, Rose you’re blathering again…

1224. Cygnus-X1 - May 9, 2014

1213. Keachick – May 9, 2014

You really have no shortage of ways to misconstrue what I say or derive the wrong point out of it.

“ADD-audience” is just a colloquialism for people who might not be satisfied without the the non-stop, wall-to-wall action and visual stimulation in the BR Trek and other movies (like Inception, for example, which I enjoyed in spite of its absurd, action-movie-trailer-like pacing).

So, I’m done with you. Go ahead an misconstrue away. And dismiss everything I’ve said as the rantings of a “hater.” I try and give you a thoughtful reply, and look at what I get for my efforts. A bunch of nonsense.

1225. intruder - May 9, 2014

Go Bob

The first trekker to direct a Star Trek picture.

Make it epic.

1226. Marja - May 9, 2014

1213 Rose, Hollywood film industry has always been about attracting as well as customers closer to home. International audience are now seen as the ones mostly responsible for the plethora of very action-driven, and at times, over-the-top fantastical mayhem/noise and violence.

What I worry about, Rose, is that the movie industry is not so interested in telling a coherent emotional story as it is in telling an emotional story with plenty o’ violence and needless action.

I’d love to see the emotions and debate engendered by a scientific phenomenon — do we deal with It? how do we account for it scientifically? what IS it? how is it affecting lives/nature around it? But I fear this is not enough for a movie audience now accustomed to violence, action, and plenty of explosions. This is why I agree with the idea that they are the “ADD viewers” — having a touch of ADD myself, I can understand the appellation and relate to it. The only things that attach me to a movie is are emotion. Character motivation. Character exploration and conquering of a dilemma. This is why I found Pike’s death scene so sad [there is no victory here, only resignation/loneliness/sadness]. Why I thought Kirk going into the reactor core so riveting. Why his interaction “because you are my friend?” with Spock so moving. But the explosions and head-squishin’ I could have done without, quite well, quite easily. They were not required to hold my attention or keep me away from my Smartphone.

1216 Oscar, still, waiting to see if youll’ have an opinion on ST3, if you see it HAHAHA not that I care, just wondering if your curiosity will take you to the box office at least once. My bet is yes, at least once!

1220 Rose, agreed for the most part; what makes me sad is that these wonderful actors with their capacity to express emotions — sadness, wonder, fear, curiosity — are hobbled somewhat by the “need” for lotsa ‘splosions head squishin’s and other “action” I’d just as soon do without, all for the purpose of a frenetic pace to the finish … sounds like bad sex …..

1222 Herbert, Duuuude, someone [else] is BLATHERING? really?

1227. Captain Slow - May 9, 2014

@ 1221 boborci

I think I can guarantee he will hate it. That seems to be his whole reason for being here. He and Herbert seem to have this idea that you’re busy day dreaming about standing over the smoldering ruins of Star Trek, laughing maniacally.

1228. Cygnus-X1 - May 10, 2014

1227. Captain Slow – May 9, 2014

@ 1221 boborci I think I can guarantee he will hate it. That seems to be his whole reason for being here. He and Herbert seem to have this idea that you’re busy day dreaming about standing over the smoldering ruins of Star Trek, laughing maniacally.

Orci doesn’t hate Trek, but I can’t imagine what he likes about it, given how un-Trek his Trek movies have been. There’s been a fairly wide spectrum of Trek from TOS to ENT, so maybe Orci is a fan of the kind of Trek episodes that I tend to assume everyone thinks are the bad ones.

But, then, look at his other movies—mediocre is the high-water mark for his body of work. I just don’t get it. He seems like a reasonably bright guy. And yet everything he writes is formulaic and shallow. I know absolutely nothing about Orci, but his writing screams, “I have lived a sheltered life and have nothing meaningful or interesting to remark about it!” Honestly, I have no clue how someone can so consistently turn out the writing that he does. You’d think that every once in a while the stars would align or maybe he’d get drunk and stumble upon an inspiration. But, he just keeps churning out those Orci scripts. He’s consistent, I’ll grant him that. If you like Bob Orci’s work, I’m sure you’ll be pleased with BR Trek 3.

1229. Cygnus-X1 - May 10, 2014

Actually, the stars aligning might have been ST09. That’s the best thing that Orci has ever worked on, that I know of.

Remember ST09? It’s the one about the guy whose planet blows up so he devotes the rest of his life to waiting around to take revenge upon the guy who tried to save his planet, as well as upon everything associated with his would-be savior’s government. Then a ship full of young-adult prodigies with familiar names shows up to save the Earth and kill the revenge-obsessed guy. The End.

1230. Oscar - May 10, 2014

Oh, the whole thing is starting to feel like a Ponzi scheme. « Do not worry, if it is not great, the best one will dazzle you. But that is you said the last time.»
Orci grouppies, spare me the sarcasm. I prefer arguments

Roberto Orci: por favor, dirige, escribe y produce Star Trek 2016, así no habrá duda a quién echar la culpa cuando sea un desastre. Recuerda: sic transit gloria mundi…

1231. Oscar - May 10, 2014

«ROBERTO ORCI “CLEAR FRONTRUNNER TO HELM STAR TREK 3″ »
comicbookmovie.com
Comicbookmovie fans: «hahahaha»
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/notyetmovies/news/?a=99741

1232. Keachick - May 10, 2014

Hey!
The Hollywood movie industry has always produced films and television that have always been faster, louder, aggressive and more frenetic. I guess it has now reached the tipping point. Star Trek, also being a product of Hollywood, has simply kept pace with other within a similar genre, except it has been not been quite so over the top.

I am hoping that Bob Orci and co will realize that the tipping point has been reached and the need to pull back somewhat on the violence, mayhem, destruction, loud and noisy is essential if they want a film to succeed as being genuinely good and worthwhile in its own right. Without so much of the former, more time can be given to exploring the quieter, the more subtle, fragile, whether it be finding a new world or getting to know a main character’s likes/dislikes that do not necessarily coincide with loud and frenzied activity.

I have been the one who has, all along, called for this. However, I have also had to accept that other people do not necessarily understand or want what I wish for. I think they call this life. If it is good enough for me, well then… that does not mean that I will not continue to ask/suggest themes, ideas etc.

I do not think I have misconstrued much at all…actually. All year, Cygnus and others have been continually on the case and looking for various ways to “prove” how “right” their opinions are, as opposed to other people’s. This notion about international audiences is the latest attempt.

The fact is that it is not new that the two most populated countries, with a lot of these people now with disposable money to spend (most of them young males), *China and *India, do very likely influence the kinds of movies Hollywood will risk investing in/making. Other countries like Russia and Japan have their influence as well. However, this too will pass – as fads eventually do…

It is hoped that Paramount, the other investors, Bad Robot, Bob and co. will not compromise the best, most noble of our own western culture and values and that Star Trek will be a place where we get to see/hear and be reminded of what we believe in and hope for.

As in Jim and Carol should have a *daughter this time round. China and India are very unsafe places if, at conception, a female is the result…:(!

1233. Captain Slow - May 10, 2014

@ 1228 Cygnus-X1

I respectfully disagree. I can see plenty of Trekkiness in both movies but especially STID. I’ve discussed my views on the themes of the movie before but as I recall you disagreed or thought that it wasn’t well executed.

To answer your second point about what episodes Bob likes, I think he’s said that some of his favorites are Balance of Terror, Yesterday’s Enterprise, and Best of Both Worlds.

1234. I am not Herbert - May 10, 2014

Earth’s Moon is a Hollow Space Station

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/12/11/hold-on-for-this-one-the-moon-is-hollow-and-this-is-why/

1235. Cygnus-X1 - May 10, 2014

1233. Captain Slow – May 10, 2014

Well, it’s happy days for you then, isn’t it.

Everything’s coming up Captain Slow. ;-)

To answer your second point about what episodes Bob likes, I think he’s said that some of his favorites are Balance of Terror, Yesterday’s Enterprise, and Best of Both Worlds.

Well, those are all good episodes obviously.

But, I do remember him listing his favorite movies of all time a few years back and like the entire list was action(esque) movies from the 1980s. I remember “Superman” being among them. I mean, “Superman” was ALRIGHT, but best all-time? There’s just a large, most likely unbridgeable chasm between what Orci thinks is top-quality and what I think is top-quality. So, I’m sure that whatever he turns out this time in BR Trek 3, he’ll be convinced that it’s awesome, just like he was with his last two BR Trek movies (and probably all of his other movies). And I’m sure that I’ll find it lacking and unsatisfactory. If it doesn’t offend my Trek and general artistic sensibilities and values like STID did, that’ll be a relative achievement on Bob’s part. Not that he gives two shits what the likes of me think.

At any rate, you seem a good chap, Captain Slow. And I appreciate your comments.

1236. Cygnus-X1 - May 10, 2014

1232. Keachick – May 10, 2014

Rose, I saw an interview with Chris Pine wherein he remarks that social media is absolutely idiotic and people who use it are dumb and insecure.

1237. TrekMadeMeWonder - May 10, 2014

I just saw Amazing Spiderman 2.

C-
At least it was a comfortable chair.

1238. EvilGuyThatStirsUpTrouble - May 10, 2014

1236. Cygnus-X1 – May 10, 2014
1232. Keachick – May 10, 2014

Rose, I saw an interview with Chris Pine wherein he remarks that social media is absolutely idiotic and people who use it are dumb and insecure.

___________________________
Smart man. He is right.

1239. Captain Slow - May 10, 2014

@ 1235 Cygnus-X1

Thank you. And I hope you find something to like about the movie.

1240. Cygnus-X1 - May 11, 2014

1239. Captain Slow – May 10, 2014

Thank you. And I hope you find something to like about the movie.

Oh, I always do. I’m sure I’ll like the acting. On the whole people tended to be less appreciative of Peter Weller than of B. Cumberbatch in the last one, but I enjoyed them both (meaning the actors turned in good performances in spite of their poorly written characters). I also enjoyed Bruce Greenwood and it’s really too bad that they decided to kill him off in STID. There’s usually a couple nuggets of comedy to enjoy, as well. The titillating visuals and thrillride I also enjoyed…at least, when I saw it in the theater. Those attributes don’t hold up so well over time, though (home video + being familiar with the plot). STID had some scenes that were well done and which I enjoy, but not enough to sit through the whole movie again with all of its issues.

1241. Captain Slow - May 11, 2014

Totally agreed about Pike. He was a character with a lot of potential. As far as I know Bruce Greenwood does TV work so they could have given him a series. I remember Someone mentioned the idea here once and Bob replied saying that he would want to see that. Of course he was also one of the people responsible for making that impossible.
One of my hopes for the sequel is that they don’t kill off anymore important characters. There are a few (Chekov, Carol) who might be considered expendable.

1242. lulzifer - May 11, 2014

If they are as bad at directing as they are at writing, the Star Trek Franchise is truly doomed. Read through their filmography. It is almost all uniformely junk.
Bring Nicholas Meyer back!

1243. Curious Cadet - May 11, 2014

@1241. Captain Slow,
“There are a few (Chekov, Carol) who might be considered expendable.”

THANK you!

Yes I have been saying that for years. There’s just no point for Chekov’s character, never was. Most of the time they just don’t know what do with him, and he’s essentially interchangeable with Sulu. If he added some important element to the cast, then I might spare him, but he doesn’t. One thick accent per cast is enough! At least in the 60s he was the embodiment of tolerance, as a Russian working with Americans during the height of the Cold War. If Orci really wanted to make a statement, he’d kill off Chekov and replace him with a Muslim. But he doesn’t seem interested in that kind of statement, after all he gave us STID, which is one of the whitest, male, human, casts I’ve seen in cinema.

No I’m afraid Orci has repeatedly demonstrated that he’s a master of the simplistic Hollywood blockbuster, dealing in generic tropes designed to push the emotional buttons of an audience with a wide range of IQs. Then again, the killing of Chekov wouldn’t have much impact since they never give us enough time in these movies to develop a relationship that truly matters enough for such a death to mean much. And when they do, they throw the death away like Pike’s. He might as well have fallen off a bridge. So Carol Marcus it is … There’s too many women talking in these movies as it is. ;-)

Then again Chekov would be more like blowing up Vulcan — meaningless for an uninitiated audience, and unnecessary, but complete shock value for the original series fans. A statement by the filmmakers that says, ‘we’re firmly in control, and anything can happen in our hands, whether it should or not’.

1244. I am not Herbert - May 11, 2014

Curious Cadet: “There’s too many women talking in these movies as it is.” ;-)

FULL AGREEMENT: star trek (sic) is NOT a “chick flick”… =(

blowing up Vulcan says: we are trying to destroy logic… =(

1245. I am not Herbert - May 11, 2014

Basic Guaranteed Income for All

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/23606-the-case-for-a-basic-guaranteed-income-for-all

1246. I am not Herbert - May 11, 2014

This is how the world will awaken: =)

http://mad.ly/b5f1d4?fe=1&pact=22484393933

1247. Keachick (Rose) - May 11, 2014

#1236 – “But, I do remember him listing his favorite movies of all time a few years back and like the entire list was action(esque) movies from the 1980s. I remember “Superman” being among them. I mean, “Superman” was ALRIGHT, but best all-time?”

Where did Bob Orci say that, eg *Superman was “best all-time” in terms of artistic merit, quality? People can and do enjoy films etc that they also know are not the best or they may even consider rubbish, but they still like to watch. There are episodes in TOS that come into that category. Many would suggest Spock’s Brain and the Way to Eden as being two examples of “rubbish” but many of us still watch anyway because they are so bad, they’re good. The same goes for some of the old Dr Who for the same reasons…LOL God, they are FUN to watch.

There were three Christopher Reeves Superman movies released – 1978, 1980 and 1983. Bob Orci was born in 1973 – you do the maths.

What is a really *dumb, *idiotic putdown is your inference that what Bob Orci may consider something that has genuine merit in terms of quality of film production values, story, acting automatically has anything to do with what he lists as his favourite movies when he was a kid – ages 5 to 12 years old.

Ref #1232 – What Chris Pine said was, “…the internet is a place where people spew b******t and nonsense.” He was referring to the use of particular forms of social media, ie Twitter and Facebook, however, what was contained in the final quote, was the word “internet” which made his comment stupid as well as rude. The fact that we are commenting here is because we are engaged with one form of “social media” which was the internet was specifically designed to provide. I cannot recall Chris making any comment about people being insecure or otherwise.

The only reason you, Cygnus, know of Chris Pine’s attitudes is because I brought it up some time back on this site. How about this – cut the crap!

1248. Cygnus-X1 - May 11, 2014

1243. Curious Cadet – May 11, 2014

There’s just no point for Chekov’s character, never was. Most of the time they just don’t know what do with him, and he’s essentially interchangeable with Sulu. If he added some important element to the cast, then I might spare him, but he doesn’t. One thick accent per cast is enough! At least in the 60s he was the embodiment of tolerance, as a Russian working with Americans during the height of the Cold War. If Orci really wanted to make a statement, he’d kill off Chekov and replace him with a Muslim.

Interesting points. I can’t say I’d mind at all if Chekov were to meet with an accident like, and a Muslim character replacing him would be fertile ground for social relevance. But, like you said, they’d just waste Chekov’s death like they wasted Pike’s death. They’d spend a minute and a half on it, and then cut to a monster-chase scene. Though, if it was a choice between killing off Chekov or Sulu, losing the latter would probably be less impacting to their formula, which heretofore has involved Chekov the boy genius saving the day. Sulu never saves the day. He doesn’t really do anything in particular, though I like John Cho as an actor. Given my druthers, I’d rather lose the boy genius as he’s kind of annoying with his accent and being a know-it-all. But I have to admit that BR have found more of a use for Chekov than for Sulu.

1249. TrekMadeMeWonder - May 11, 2014

There is little hope for trek wiothout an inspired and intelligent story.

SP2’s story was abysmal and tragically boring. The best acting in the movie was given by a streaching web. Hey? Can we let the costume designer direct the next one? It seems like he was the only guy faithful to the comics.

Sorry fellow trekkies, but there is not much hope for Trek after STiD, and now SP2.

That is what is Amazing.

1250. Red Dead Ryan - May 11, 2014

There were four (five, if you count the Richard Donner version of the second movie) Christopher Reeve “Superman” movies. The last one he did was “Superman IV: The Quest For Peace”, which was truly awful, even worse than III.

“Superman” and “Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut” are two of the all-time best superhero movies of all time.

Whoever said “Superman” was merely “ALRIGHT” needs to lay off the weed.

1251. Cygnus-X1 - May 11, 2014

1250. Red Dead Ryan – May 11, 2014

“Superman” and “Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut” are two of the all-time best superhero movies of all time. Whoever said “Superman” was merely “ALRIGHT” needs to lay off the weed.

That would be me, and weed would probably make me enjoy those movies even more. Though, I agree with you that S & SII are two the of the all-time best superhero movies of all time that have ever been made in all of the time that has ever existed all-time.

But, “superhero movies” is a lower standard than “movies.”

And the list in question was of his favorite “movies” of all time. There was no Godfather, Citizen Kane, 2001, Apocalypse Now, Taxi Driver, Goodfellas, Barry Lyndon, Raging Bull, Young Frankenstein, Airplane!, On the Waterfront, The Matrix, Terminator, Aliens, Unforgiven, Saving Private Ryan, Casablanca, Fargo, Big Lebowski, French Connection, or any other of these sort of classics on the list. I don’t even recall Star Wars being on the list.

1252. Mitchell - May 11, 2014

As much as I’d like to pan Bob Orci’s writing on The Amazing Spider-Man 2, that films flaws fall squarely on the shoulders of director Marc Webb.
Kurtzman working on Venom however? Yikes i don’t think i can put my childhood memories of that great character through that. I’ll be skipping that one.

1253. Keachick (Rose) - May 12, 2014

#1251 – Just because these movies you list may be classics, for various valid reasons, does not necessarily make them a person’s favourites.

The Godfather trilogy -Very good, but I do not want to watch again – don’t like Mafia stories
Citizen Kane – very good, but not one that I immediately put on, if I want to relax
2001 – Boring..I first saw this in high school because at the time everyone went on how great it was. I thought it was OK at the time, mainly because I liked the music (Johann Strauss waltz music). Saw it recently – BORING.
Apocalypse Now – Bloody Awful
Taxi Driver – not seen – doubt that I have missed much
Goodfellas – very good
Barry Lyndon – not seen
Raging Bull – yuk
Young Frankenstein – good
Airplane! – very good – lots of fun!
On the Waterfront – not seen
The Matrix – Good – quite violent though
Terminator – Good
Aliens – Good – but violent and creepy – when others want to watch it, I leave the room
Unforgiven – Good
Saving Private Ryan – Very good, but it is a war film – not a favourite
Casablanca – Not seen – I know – bite me!
Fargo – Not seen
Big Lebowski – Not seen
French Connection – Good
Star Wars IV, V, VI – Good
Later Star Wars films – OK

Although many of these films may be very good from a story and production value point of view, I would not consider any of them (except for Airplane) as being one of my favourites. In fact, there are a couple that I can’t stand.

I can’t speak for Bob Orci, but to infer that what someone considers a “favourite” as opposed to what some considers to be a “classic” should be the same, is wrong. This is something you shouldn’t be doing, but we all know why you are, don’t we?…:(

1254. TrekMadeMeWonder - May 12, 2014

“1252. Mitchell – May 11, 2014
As much as I’d like to pan Bob Orci’s writing on The Amazing Spider-Man 2, that films flaws fall squarely on the shoulders of director Marc Webb.”

Seriously, Mitchell. Why do the story faws belong to Webb? Did you see it?

Sorry, but I could find little if any motivation, for any of the characters in that movie.
IMO, ASM2 was just bad, uninspired and boring writing.

1255. Disinvited - May 13, 2014

#1254. TrekMadeMeWonder – May 12, 2014

I believe Mitchell maybe referencing the unsubstantiated reporting that Webb excised large swaths of the script from scheduled filming without consulting the writers.

1256. TrekMadeMeWonder - May 14, 2014

1255. Disinvited

Wow! I had not heard such rumors.

But that seems a bit unlikely, with the way ST09 was reported to be locked in when the Writer’s strike was in effect not being able to tweak the script with the Shatner scene, or such things.

Would’nt there be some sort of Writer’s Union enforcement to prohibit a Director from ruining the intent and also the reputation of a good Writer?

I mentioned above I had heard that they cut the Electro Mother murder from the movie (I read that on AICN). I thought that hurt the story, but also thought it should never have been in there in the first place!

Seriously. Spider-man is basically a children’s first movie. People under 17, right? Then why would Bob and Alex come up with such a plotline when this movie was supposed to be playing through Mother’s Day?

THINK critically, please!!!!

1257. Disinvited - May 14, 2014

#1256. TrekMadeMeWonder – May 14, 2014

“Seriously. Spider-man is basically a children’s first movie. People under 17, right?” – TrekMadeMeWonder

Hmmm…I was there buying comic books when Marvel first put out Spidey and I find it very odd that anyone would say that about the character. As I recall, Spiderman’s big pull in the comics was that Marvel wrote him more “real”, i.e. adult, than the DC superhero approach. I know that at the time as a child the DC take held more sway with me. Spidey became more appealing as I got older.

FWIW When I would buy my comics at the corner drugstore as a “child” the Marvels were all being snapped up by the high school seniors and college guys.

The first time I ever got the idea that Spidey might be a character for kids was when ABC came out with the first SPIDERMAN animated cartoon (the one with the snazzy theme song), but by that time I was older and I could see the appeal as I was getting into more adult themes like those of the soap opera DARK SHADOWS.

Anyway, it just feels odd to hear an assertion that Spidey is just for kids and for me, harkens back to when NBC and others tried to cast STAR TREK as just “a kid’s show” because it was SF.

1258. TrekMadseMeWonder - May 14, 2014

Disinvited. Did you see ASM2?

I am trying to put away my harsher critiques of Bob’s writing as it seems there was always another co-writer or director to blame.

But your response did not do it for me either Disinvited. Remember It’s Spider-man, NOT the Dark Knight. I think parents understood the darker theme of that movie and they expect a lighter fare with Spider-man.
And this is not a comic book. This is a major motion picture. I think you can see how this might affect someone more than just a comic book.

Face it Disinvited. Spider-man is going to have children in the theater, and after seeing Jamie Fox’s goofy performance, and especially after seeing his character being tortured onscreen (again another theme that these new writers think is necessary these days in an action movie – seriously where did you guys grow up? Kabul?).

Didinvited. Do you have children of your own?

I wonder.

Would you put your child in the seat at 9 or 10 to watch Electro kill his Mother?
Why did the writers feel it necessary to use that as reason to feel bad about Electro?

This next Trek will be the test for me and Bob O, G_d willing we all see it.
But unfortunately, the history of poorly written stories is a example enough.
I will pay for one more Trek with Bob O at the helm, And I will gladly pay for many viewings again, if it’s at least interesting, and makes me wonder a bit afterwards.

Again. Good luck, Bob!!!

1259. TrekMadseMeWonder - May 14, 2014

And the funny thing is that the “Mother thing” seemed like a good idea when I first read that was Electro’s backstory and that it did not make through editing.

After thinking about it for a minute, I was wondering why they even came up with that idea in the first place. I mean, of all the reasons to become a criminal you choose killing mom. How is that ever motivation in the first place?

And its hard not to comment that Jamie seemed like the only black guy in the Amazing tales to date, and they make him this weirdly dark retarded-savant?
What was that?

Without that scene the moviegoer is left with just a weird sappy performance from Mr. Fox. And boy was it bad. And then Spider-man shows as the only person in the movie that was cool to Fox’s character. And Eltro ends uip HATING him?

Irrational behavior is not one of my favorite evil mastermind motivations.

1260. Disinvited - May 15, 2014

#1258. TrekMadseMeWonder – May 14, 2014

You’ll have to bear with me a bit here, I am from an era where Batman was more Bob Kane when Spidey came out in comics and The Dark Knight came much later into my adulthood.

I haven’t seen ASM2, yet. But I don’t need to see it to know that within the flawed self-regulation that the industry itself follows, the film makers have shot for a PG-13 rating which fairly much indicates that the demographic you contend the film is for is NOT the version they have released, at least here in the U.S.

And I might add tha,t as a matter of general principle, I don’t permit or finance children under my guardianship in the 9-10yo range to see films rated PG-13 (or those with higher age recommendation) that I, myself have not pre-screened to ascertain suitability with regards to the maturation of said 9-10yos. So, if the film had, indeed, included a scene such as the one you suggest, I, for one, wouldn’t dismiss it out of hand merely because I found it unsuitable for them.

1261. TrekMadeMeWonder - May 15, 2014

Face facts. It happens every time I go to the movies.

Last week there were at least 20 under 12s in the audience.

1262. Who cares - May 15, 2014

@1256. I am going to assume you have never read any actual Spider-Man comic books. Do you know that Spidey is directly responsible for the death of his first love Gwen Stacy? How about the fact that Norman Osborne had Spidey’s newborn daughter kidnapped and murdered. Or that Norman raped Gwen before her death. Maybe you heard about Spidey making a deal with a Demon lord? Perhaps you have heard of some Spider-Man villains like Venom and Carnage? They like to kill people, I remember one time Venom broke a guy’s arms and legs then left him laying in a pool of gasoline with a lit cigar stuck lit end up into the ground beside him as a fuse.

The only reason the Sam Raimi Spider-Man movies were “kid friendly” is because the studio, writers and director chose to make them so. I much prefer the darker incarnations of Spider-Man myself, like the years Todd MacFarlane was the writer for Spider-Man.

Seriously claiming Spidey is aimed at kids ignores most of his published history.

1263. TrekMadeMeWonder - May 15, 2014

I see your point.

I was just hoping for something better this time around. Especially with such a well know character like Spider-man.

I mean they really flubbed the origin in the 1st one. If you watch closely, they show Parker steeling the milk from the store, where he was just told that he did not have the money to pay.

This one was such a bore to watch and so poorly acted and directed that I actually feel asleep a few times while watching. Trust me, this last spidey really stank up the joint.

Can someone please explain to me why Electro hated Spider-man?
Like the Black Cat, I must have missed it.

1264. Who cares - May 15, 2014

Well I haven’t seen ASM2 yet, probably won’t until it comes out on DVD, since I don’t have a lot of money to pay ridiculous ticket prices so I pick which movies I see in the theatrically very selectively. So I can’t debate whether or not ASM2 is good, bad, or meh at this time.

1265. Disinvited - May 15, 2014

#1263. TrekMadeMeWonder – May 15, 2014

Well, that is probably a good sign of your mental health that you don’t understand how fanatical admirers can so identify with their role models that they imagine a relationship where none exists and and their “love” quickly turns to hatred as they feel an unjust and unwarranted spurning by their beloved ones not even knowing who they are in the real world.

1266. TrekMadeMeWonder - May 16, 2014

A sensible answer.

Is Psychiatry your expertise, or what?

However, I thought that Spidey was the only, yes, THE ONLY ONE, in that movie that DID recognize Max – personally, and did not give him any flak for being a bit weird.

But I see your point. I think they still muffed the delivery. I will have to try and see it again someday. But not soon.

1267. Orson Zedd - May 18, 2014

So am I to take it that we Star Trek fans will be looking at Orci’s career with interest to see just how bad he’s gonna screw Star Trek up, or to see if he leaves it alone, having wounded the animal?

1268. Who cares - May 20, 2014

@1267. Not really since there are plenty of Trek fans out there, both new and old, who think Bob, JJ, and Alex have done a fine job so far and look forward to what is next.

Now before anyone tries to say that I am just a JJ drone or something like that let me state for the record that I never watched Lost, Alias, Alcatraz, Revolution, or any other JJ Abrams TV series except Almost Human, which I loved. Sadly Fox has decided to embrace their usual world class idiocy and cancel the show despite the fact that it had better ratings than half the shows they renewed.

As far as Bob’s non-Trek stuff, I have really only watched Jack of All Trades (cause I am a Bruce Campbell fan) and his new show Sleepy Hollow, which I can’t wait for season 2 of, nothing else.

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