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New Star Trek Writers: JJ Abrams ‘Still Guiding Light’ Behind 2016 Movie June 30, 2014

by Matt Wright , Filed under: Abrams,ST: Into Darkness Sequel , trackback

In a new interview, Patrick McKay and J.D. Payne – co-writers along with Roberto Orci for the upcoming Star Trek film – talk about their background with the franchise, where they see the next movie headed and how much producer J.J. Abrams is involved. Details from the writing team after the break.

Payne and McKay talk next Trek

Much has been said about Star Trek and Star Trek Into Darkness producer/director J.J. Abrams involvement in the 2016 Star Trek film now that he is focused on directing Star Wars Episode VII. The next Trek film is being produced by Abrams and his Bad Robot production company, but some question his involvement – even prompting Wil Wheaton to make a joke about it on his Syfy TV show last week. However, in the a two-part interview with TrekCore, Patrick McKay and J.D. Payne they say Abrams is still very much involved in the creative process for upcoming Trek feature:

Bad Robot, J.J., and his team are really at the heart of this movie’s development. They are the guiding light by which we all do our work.J.J.’s been a key part of helping us spin this tale from the beginning, and if there are people who think that we’ve lost him to Star Wars this time around, that’s not the truth as far as we see it.

The writing duo also discuss where the next movie is headed:

Patrick McKay: We’re very much thinking about a movie that would stand alongside the first two, in a general sense, but more specifically, I would say that in working with our wonderful co-writer Roberto Orci, it began very much as a conversation. “Well, what would you guys like to see in the movie?” “Is there an area we all want to explore?” Nothing was off the table – all along, it’s been about the coolest, best movie we can write. There’s no sort of requirement saying we have to do this or that, I think it’s very much been a blank canvas.

J.D. Payne: What we keep on coming back to is the basic credo of Star Trek, that opening prologue you hear at the beginning of each Original Series episode. That’s our mantra for what we’re trying to accomplish here.

The guys also talked about their introductions to Trek:

Patrick McKay: …I’ve probably seen every episode of the Original Series, I’ve seen the movies many, many times; I remember when The Next Generation was premiering, it was such a big deal. I watched at least the first couple of seasons – you know, I do actually remember watching “Best of Both Worlds” as it aired. That was great.

J.D. Payne: I think that the first episode I ever saw was “Frame of Mind,” and it was like discovering jazz or something. How has this been out there my entire life and I’d never seen it before?! After that, I was just plugged into it. I would tape it off of television, edit out the commercials, and I had my own little library of Star Trek and got super, super into it. I just loved the sense it had for the possibility of what could be ‘out there.’

There’s much more over at TrekCore, including their thoughts on Kirk’s quick promotion, their writing process with Bob Orci, and how they take fan feedback. Read the full interview at TrekCore Part 1, Part 2

Comments

1. Hat Rick - June 30, 2014

As I mentioned before, these two new writers seem very promising. Thanks for the article, by the way.

They say that the next movie is a “blank canvas.” I think that this has to be seen in the context of all the other things they said, including JJ Abrams’ continued involvement, the need to collaborate with Roberto Orci, and the fact that the first two sequels have established certain parameters.

What occurs to me here is that there needs to be a good science fiction story, compatible with Star Trek premises, behind the next movie. It also must appeal to modern sensibilities. “Fan service” should be relatively unimportant given these considerations. In fact, “fan service” should be unnecessary if the writers use their knowledge as writers and as fans of Trek to construct a sufficiently involving plot.

I think, if I were to write a screenplay for the next movie, the key phrase in the above would be “good science fiction story, compatible with Star Trek premises.” Each component of this phrase means something different to different people. To begin with, I would have to define these terms for myself. At this points, all I can ask of the writers is to do the best they possibly can.

2. Smoking Robot - June 30, 2014

It’s nice that we have some commerical viable trek these days.

But these movies… they’re awful. Just a string of gimmicks strung together with ridiculous CGI and really bad writing. Such a shame. They should all go watch TWOK and hang their heads in shame.

3. Mike Stivic - June 30, 2014

Exploration and more of the Kirk, Spock, McCoy dynamic.

It would be incredible if some high concept sci-fi along with the eerie deep space tone of the original series contrasted with the “home” that is the Enterprise and the family that is the crew– if all of that could be captured in this new movie.

Enough with big bad villains and vengeance.

4. Harry Mudd - June 30, 2014

Those last two movies were not Star Trek. And quit calling it Star Trek 3 already.

5. Sean - June 30, 2014

Them & Orci seem like good guys & are all well intentioned & know trek…it’s it just feels like JJ & Paramount want a movie for the Michael bay / transformer audience….loud & dumb….& those 3, like we all do, end up doing what our bosses ask us to do….one suggestion for the 2 new writers….go live with Neil DeGrass Tyson for a month…that man could help give you guys some great ideas to write an amazing trek story

6. Cygnus-X1 - June 30, 2014

“Bad Robot, J.J., and his team are really at the heart of this movie’s development. They are the guiding light by which we all do our work.”

7. Buzz Cagney - June 30, 2014

Hey as long as Uhura and Spock spend time sucking face, that the alien is bent on revenge and has a large black ship and there are plenty of ‘splosions and a space-jump then i’m all good. Lets face it that’s all they seem to need to do to make money. And that’s all that matters. Isn’t it?

8. Buzz Cagney - June 30, 2014

oh and I can picture Orci saying ‘what would you guys like to see in the movie’. A polite way of saying ‘I really have no idea what to do. Help’

9. Ahmed - June 30, 2014

@ 6. Cygnus-X1 – June 30, 2014

” “Bad Robot, J.J., and his team are really at the heart of this movie’s development. They are the guiding light by which we all do our work.””

Thanks God! For a second there I thought that the next movie is going to be “different” from the last two, but as long as JJ is there to guide them, then we should have no fear!!

This second part of Trekcore interview is full of PR talking points & very little information. Payne gave such a convoluted reasoning to the question about Kirk’s quick promotion:

“In some ways. It’s interesting – Star Trek often reflects the cultural milieu in which it’s being created, which is one of the reasons it’s such an enduring franchise and can speak so freshly to each generation. Some cultural historians define Millennials, speaking in terms of archetypes, as part of a rising ‘hero’ generation. Millennials are often very willing to dive into complex crises and take them on even without lots of experience. They’re got a sort of brash kind of confidence, so, generationally, you could look at the first film as simply reflecting the culture and characteristics of the rising generation.”

I guess that BR trained him well in the art of BS!

10. Disinvited - June 30, 2014

#4. Harry Mudd – June 30, 2014

Movie studios execs are a superstitious lot. It comes from being lucky enough to have a string of hits fall their way and then just as randomly a string of loss. They construct these voodoo formulas and statistics by which they try to take credit when things are going well and deflect blame when they aren’t.

So you can almost take it as a given something as superstitious evoking as the number 13 isn’t going to make it into a STAR TREK marketing campaign.

11. Ahmed - June 30, 2014

@7. Buzz Cagney

” And that’s all that matters. Isn’t it?”

Yup! We should be grateful that there is a Trek movie & don’t ask for anything more!

Except maybe having 3 villains, that is really a fair request.

ST09 has one villain, Nero
STID has TWO villain, Khaaaaaaaaaaaan & Marcus

Therefore, it is logical for ST 13 to feature THREE villains! And this time, the Big Black Ship (TM) must be the size of the Moon.

12. Cygnus-X1 - July 1, 2014

9. Ahmed – June 30, 2014

This second part of Trekcore interview is full of PR talking points & very little information. Payne gave such a convoluted reasoning to the question about Kirk’s quick promotion:

I don’t understand what point he was trying to make about Millennials, either. They’re more into heroes than other people? They’re more brash than other
generations were in their 20s? And that’s why it was a good story idea to promote an immature Kirk to the captaincy, demote him for 10 minutes, and then re-promote him? Huh???

I guess that BR trained him well in the art of BS!

You said it, not me. It’s pretty funny, though.

P.S. That’s no moon…

13. dswynne - July 1, 2014

@6 (Cygnus-X1): A necessity, since BR is still contracted to produce a third film. The REAL concern is if all the typical secrecy stuff starts popping up, where the cast and crew had to lie about the details of the film.

@11 (Ahmed): There is going to be an antagonist of some kind. In fact, if you look at TOS alone, the biggest percentage of the villains were alien. This is followed by a significant percentage of the next group of villains being either members of Starfleet or were Federation citizens, followed by the trope “man vs. nature” (i.e. The Enemy Within, The Carbonite Maneuver and “The Galileo 7 type of episodes). Also, if you look at other sci-fi movies today, you’re going to get a villain, coupled with some “action schlock (see: Prometheus, Event Horizon). So, unfortunately, we’re never going to get a pure sci-fi film (see: 2001, Contact, STTMP, STIV), either within the ST franchise or any other sci-fi film simply because the studios want to pump as much money, thinking that the action trope is the way of achieving that objective, which is why Paramount chose BR to helm the franchise in the first place. The best thing to do is hope that the next villain isn’t looking for vengeance, though I don’t mind said villain having the bigger ship (see: The Corbomite Manuever, STTMP).

14. Harry Ballz - July 1, 2014

I thought we were told that the two new writers were huge Trek fans.

Now we hear them say, “I’ve probably seen every episode of the Original Series” and “the first episode I ever saw was Frame of Mind”

Are you f*cking kidding me??!!! Any longtime fan has seen every episode of TOS twenty times each. That fan can recite every bit of dialogue from every episode.

Example: I saw a few episodes of Lost years ago, but I would never claim to be a big fan of the series, nor should I.

I don’t care if the two new writers are Shakespeare and Hemingway reincarnated. How well do they truly understand the nuances of Star Trek?

Are we in for another paint-by-numbers mess of a movie with no story and big explosions? If so, that’s just pitiful.

15. Disinvited - July 1, 2014

#12. Cygnus-X1 – July 1, 2014

I think the point they were trying to make about the Millenials is that their heroes are all overnight sensations which I would largely ascribe as having to do with the Internet in one way or the other.

16. Kevin - July 1, 2014

@14
“Any longtime fan has seen every episode of TOS twenty times each. That fan can recite every bit of dialogue from every episode.”

There is a difference between a ‘big fan’ and an obsessed fanatic.

17. JSM-73 - July 1, 2014

Can we have less ‘fisticuffs’ and violence in this Trek please, and a little more exploration and problem solving with brains, over brawn?! The original series was amazing not least of all because – when one got right down to it -Kirk, Spock & McCoy really formed one character; McCoy the heart & soul, Spock the logic & analytical side, Kirk the one who took the advice from these two ‘halves’ and made decisions.
Popcorn movies seem to have really been dumbed down this past decade – look at Transformers. Mindless rubbish! Trek needs to rise proudly above all that crap & proudly say, “We’re going to give you a little action, but something to think about too, and be uplifted by!”.
Not every Trek film needs a ‘baddie’ either – dare to be different this time. The revenge seeking humanoid thimg is gettimg awfully boring. Why bother to do Trek at all if there’s no exploration?
Today’s CGI and practical model making skills should be used to truly ‘take us out there’ and make real some of the terrific sci-fi book covers of the 60s and 70s, for example. And really get into the dynamic of Kirk, Spock & McCoy at last. Please, no more hysterics from Spock either or prolonged smashing somebody in the face moments. Let’s see his logical side begin to develop now…

18. Harry Ballz - July 1, 2014

@16

Nonsense, Kevin.

If one is a devoted fan of any topic, be it film, books or art, that person can probably expound on the topic in exacting detail, much to the chagrin of anyone listening.

For example, I have spent an estimated 20,000 hours researching the JFK assassination over the last 40 years, having analyzed every detail pertaining to his murder. Fanatical? Maybe, but if you have a passion for any given topic, how deep is too deep?

19. Kevin - July 1, 2014

@18.

Well, look, one of your complaints is that Payne said “the first episode I ever saw was Frame of Mind” — why does that matter? I didn’t start watching Trek until TNG S5, but that’s because I was like twelve at the time — he talks about watching DS9 and Voyager “in high school,” so what were you expecting?

Now I don’t know these guys past this interview, but they seem like they that might reference Memory Alpha as they write, while we are the type that will WRITE that page on Memory Alpha.

20. Jim Nightshade - July 1, 2014

I agree us fans not that important…like it or not they need the worldwide audience n the scifi genre that trek is in needs the touch of star wars that jj n bob n bad robot have given it…they can throw things in for the fans….tribbles a good example n prime spock etc…..but no one not a fan will know or care much.,,,im mostly enjoying it…..its much better to me than no trek which is the only alternative….further it is trek n trek has never looked or sounded better….it has characters n depth n awesome eye candy….further much more character development than transformers for instance….i say to mr orci n new writers n bad robot keep up the great work….jjs editing n directing is a grand fun vision….for instance the enterprise almost dead revs up to life n at the second spock screams khan…the monster evil starship with khan aboards almost hits the enterprise..god that was close indeed….loved the epic 3d…loved the basic story…i do have some quibbles but no movie is perfect.,,what i most want in the third outing is a truly different story actually set in space….and maybe the bad guys have more depth eve sympathy character wise maybe even big e n crew helps the bad guys n by the end of the movie not bad n more understanding..yah its gonna be fast paced epic n exciting….but it can be fun n a bit deeper as well….lets all hope….keep on trekkin bob o n company….by the way the newest transformers broke records over 100 million first weekend….much as i dislike them n m bay they must be doing something right….appealing to their fan base and more with every movie…no i dont want trek to become transformers,,trekformers…or star wars but they do need to add elements for todays audiences….im ok with it..better than no trek….which seems to be what some of the fans must want..,.sigh…best of luck making everybody happy bob orci sir…trek lives…thanks to you guys…

21. Jed - July 1, 2014

I have one request, that they shorten Quintos hair, the bowl works for Leonard Nimoy’s face because it is so angular, but Quinto not so much.
If you look at The Corbomite Manueve Spock’s hair is shorter and a little
more “cooler” looking, this look would work for Quinto too, I think

22. Bryan With Pointy Nacelles and A Large Disk - July 1, 2014

“Not Your Father’s Star Trek” was the tag line of the first JJ Trek movie. As a 60 year old original NBC broadcast Trekker, I have truly been there from the beginning and seen all the good and bad Trek. But, just as the tag line proudly professed, these last two movies were not for the deep thinkers. It was geared for the video game generations…fast paced, senseless noise, mindless and forgettable entertainment.
Just reading all the Trek great movie concepts on this website alone from true Trekkers, one can deduce what should be so obvious. Story, story, story with heart, family, a touch of sci-fi.
A for God’s sake, ditch the new Enterprise….it looks like an overdesigned and bloated 50’s era Buick…not “simple and Clean” as Scotty would say.

23. Disinvited - July 1, 2014

#16. Kevin – July 1, 2014

Then there’s the big obsessive fans and the obsessive big fans. I know they exist as I’ve been to a convention or two.

24. IDIC Lives! - July 1, 2014

@#! Hat Rick

What a great point! It is not a matter of satisfying us “hardcore fans,” it is simply a matter of writing a good science fiction story and allowing the Trek characters to become players in it.

As commanding/egotistical a presence as Shatner might have been, as broodingly commanding a presence as Nimoy was, Trek was not about the characters and they obviously knew this. The characters fell into situations – each week there was a fascinating story to tell with all its implications.

NuTrek got off on the wrong foot when it redesigned Kirk, who they have tried to make the stereotyped rebel kid with no father to guide him and so forth. He simply cannot become Kirk with what they have done to him.

The introduction to little Spock was a tad better but the Vulcan bullies acted like human kids, not the image we were given of Vulcan (except during mating) and, again, the nu-films began by making it about the characters as they were re-designed by the nuTrek folk.

Then we are given quick stereotyped glimpses of Kirk and his good hair, Spock and his temper, Kirk drinks a lot when things go wrong which is often (which he never did), Kirk has a little metaphorical joke on Bones, haha, but these are stereotyped snapshots to “keep us happy.” (It did not work).

However, all that is needed is a good science fiction story and let Kirk and Spock (and others), react, respond, overcome, find peace, find wonder in the cosmos (whatever the outcome of the story) as the story unfolds.

And, writers should be careful not to come up with things like a hand-held transporter which takes you to Kronos because, this lessens (not enlarges) good story lines. Let the science be what it was at the time of TOS, it gives them many challenges. It makes a deeper plot easier to write, therefore.

25. Elias Javalis - July 1, 2014

Ha😄…!

They re waiting to see if a new series can materialize!!!!

26. Mike Barnett - July 1, 2014

Real Trekkies/Trekkers are in control of ST3! I can’t wait to see their finished product in 2016(knock on wood).

27. IDIC Lives! - July 1, 2014

This interview does sound hopeful!

28. Mad Mann - July 1, 2014

Yeah, I don’t get their respose to the rapid rise of Kirk to Captain was due to the Millenials expectations of a hero. Very weird.

I teach “Millenials” and have a keen outlook as to what they expect, and even they note that Kirk’s immediate captaincy took them out of the movie (we discussed it, and other movies, in class).

It is not a generational thing, it’s just trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator in the audience.

29. Timo Kebel - July 1, 2014

There is one thing would like to have in the new movie. Because the first 2 movie ended up having a lot of radical events happening, I think even though we might now finally start with the 5 year exploration that we should give it darker aftermath tone. Mostly which should reflect in some design alterations. I pretty much feel that the shining apple store named enterprise needs to get a more grounded look and feel. Less shininess with some more scars which mostly should have impact on the interior looks. Since we had a little refit on the outside after the last movie I don’t think we need to work over that surface again but defenetly the interior.

About the mission I pretty much would love Kirk fighting his inner demons after the events of into darkness. So that we have that prime mission in the forground but something within Kirk that is threatening to harm the whole crew or worse whole mankind. A multiple conflict within the storyline would be interesting.

Also one more thing. Make any encounter one that counts not just one that is fency and cool, like the not so logically solid klingon action programm we had in into darkness.

Also I think we should have some transwarp beaming aftermath. Maybe something that threatens Scotty more than Kirk, because Kirk is regenerated by Khans Blood. Maybe Scotty could experience some heavy genetic degeneration that threatens his life. It would be good for something like this to happen, since we know from the original Star Trek that everything surrounding transwarp always ended up in a mess. I don’t see a problem with the effects showing up after a while. By the way it would add up well because of McCoys mentioning that something is wrong with Kirks health in Into Darkness which was never clearly explained to us. So that we now find out that it has to do with transwarp beaming. Maybe we could even find out that old Spock new it was actually harmfull but he didn’t mention because of the greater cause and the stacks that were high.

Also I would like to have as a little fanservice something like a solid information for the 3 Minute Earth Vulcan corridor. Maybe establishing a new wormhole that hasn’t been introduced befor but is now given as a logical reason for a travel that would other wise last days and weeks.
This would besically fix several inconsisting facts for me.

So as a result we would importingly have a reason for no more transwarp beaming ever. Maybe a little backup as something what the klingons could still use later and then ending up with the same health issues. Like trying to invade earth with transwarp beaming and when the enterprise finally returns they experience a devastated earth with tons of dead Klingons and the Klingon Empire holding Kirk responsible for the desaster since he recorded introduced that technology along Scott. Would be a nice beginning Star Trek 4.

So much about for now, I would gladly like to participate in any further Trek development since it is a passion of mine.

30. ME!! - July 1, 2014

Looks like one of them actually gets Trek better than most fans. The possibility of what could be out there…THAT is what makes Star Trek fun & cool. Not the concept of some socialist utopia (which the Federation ISN’T…anyone who thinks so hasn’t been paying attention).

Although I’d love to know more about where they’re going with this, it does sound promising. Who knows? With JJ overseeing & producing (and NOT directing) and Kurtzman & Lindelof not involved, perhaps this one could be the best Trek film so far of the Abramsverse. I just hope they’ll refit the Enterprise a bit & get rid of the fat nacelles, move them slightly farther apart & ditch the bright lights in everyone’s faces around the bridge. How can anyone work with a light shining right in their face?! Made no sense…seems more like an excuse to have more lense flare.

31. Dan - July 1, 2014

YES! Let all go cry about how these new movies are total garbage, despite the fact that 98% of us could never make a Star Trek movie non fans would like. Get over it people, TWOK was too slow paced and stuffed with Kirks over acting to be justified as the golden movie of the Star Trek Universe
I speak for myself, but even STID was better than that movie, I fall asleep everytime I watch it.
Star Trek is made for TV not movies, but if your going to make for a movie it needs to be able to hold your attention the way a movie should, TWOK felt to much like a long TV episode.

32. dswynne - July 1, 2014

@14 (Harry Ballz): Your theory is flawed, since the production staff of TWOK weren’t exactly “fans” of ‘Trek either, when they came on board the franchise.

33. c - July 1, 2014

The anwer is Garth…if you want to make money and not fan nostalgia.

34. Vultan - July 1, 2014

Sounds promising and they definitely talk a good game, but I remember reading the same kind of guff before STID. Please, guys, let your imagination take you further than secret agent Khan.

35. CmdrR - July 1, 2014

Just tell us a good story with good characters.
Please DO NOT “hit the points” aka repeat lines/tropes from better movies.
Take risks. We forgive risks. We (Trekkies) are NOT tolerant of immitation or studio-think crap.

Good luck.

36. Anthony Thompson - July 1, 2014

Once again, the creators of Trek 3 are saying all the right things as far as I’m concerned. I’m excited about the possibilities!

One of the aspects (other than the story) which I hope will improve over the previous films is attention to the characters. Reading the “These Are The Voyages” volumes has made clear that Roddenberry, Fontana and Justman, etc. focused on the characters above all else and making certain that they were well served and that they were consistent. I hope that Bob reads those books and understands that.

37. Jim Nightshade - July 1, 2014

good point about wrath of khan makers were not too familiar with trek…but we know at least harve bennett did his homework watching all three seasons of tos…course theres a ton more tocatch up to now hah…and even wrath of khan wasnt a perfect movie….fakey plasticy efx of genesis effect in asteroid, ricardo n shat chewing scenary a bit too hard, reused shots from tmp…lackluster tho competant directing, same with the music, the old hiding in the nebula trick etc….i still like wrath more than any other trek movie but not by a huge difference…

38. Hat Rick - July 1, 2014

@IDIC Lives!, 24,

I’m glad we agree! Thank you for your comments.

I’ve found that there is a significant difference between the two versions of Kirk, comparing TOS Kirk as played by William Shatner, and the younger one as played by Chris Pine. Your point that the two Kirks might be irreconcilable is worth considering. I find it easier to do so if I suspend disbelief and try to enjoy the movies on their own merits. In other words, I will have to admit that the difference is there, and “retcon” it. There comes a point when one realizes that whatever it is that one wants is achievable only if the creators share the same vision and if the financial backers believe that it’s profitable.

Someone mentioned in a recent thread that the Star Trek view of economics was unrealistic. What we know is that the utopian future Star Trek contemplates is most likely predicated on almost limitless supplies of energy and consumables. For a certain initial capital and anticipated maintenance cost whose payment could be based on mortgage principles, a very long baseline can be established wherein consumer and certain other goods are essentially “free.” The manufacturing of machines that can almost indefinitely manufacture things — including other machines — at a very low relative cost could conceivably make a Federation credit-based economy, in the sense that all essentials are free, possible. Most commodities would be “too cheap to meter,” so to speak, just as the relative cost of electricity, water, and even comestibles such as grain, have been reduced compared to a century ago. But we in the 21st Century still have financial issues to deal with, and in the end, the bean-counters will win.

I think that deep down, most fans will realize this as well. Perhaps we see it as our prerogative to hold the creators’ feet to the fire, lest we lose whatever Trek remains after all the accounting is done.

39. dswynne - July 1, 2014

@36 (Hat Rick): The problem for me is that while resources may be plentiful, but there still has to be some manufacturing and service-based economy at work in order to effectively distribute those resources. What provides the incentive to build, maintain and operate a fleet of starships? I could understand that the pursuit of wealth may be gone (hence why critics of GR’s philosophy thinks that the Federation is a socialist utopia), but there has to be some sort of incentive AND cost involved that would determine why the Federation would commission the construction of starships, as well as what would keep the number of starships in check. I wouldn’t have a problem with the economics of ‘Trek if a credit-based currency system was explicitly stated, rather than gloss over the details.

40. Disinvited - July 1, 2014

#30. dswynne – July 1, 2014

You mean like Harve Bennett, the bloke who was fascinated and hooked on Trek by his Trekker girlfriend? :

http://archive.org/stream/starlog_magazine-060/060_djvu.txt

“I have to backtrack a moment to explain all this. I live with a wonderful lady who’s been the joy of my life for years. She is a Trekker. She is, was, and always will be a Trekker. During our long time together, I’ve been force-fed Star Trek re-runs . . . literally.

She’d be sitting there, in front of her TV set, and I’d be moaning ‘How many times do we have to see these things?’ She’d sit there like a stage mother, muttering, ‘Now watch. Spock is going to say this.’ She’d recite the dialogue with the characters. I’d say clever things like ‘Look! Why do you persist in
watching this stuff when you know everything that’s going to happen?’ Her response was ‘Shhhhh.’

Since I always was being told to shut up during the 17th showing of ‘The Tholian Web,’ I finally gave in and started watching. I became hooked.

I became fascinated by the show. You see, although I’d never watched it before, I’ve always had sort of a peripheral involvement with it. My first successful show was The Mod Squad. It competed with Trek one season. We even filmed on the same lot. I used to see Leonard walking by with his ears on but I never actually saw his work.

I knew Roddenberry but had never worked with him. The times we met I liked him a lot. For some odd reason, I’ve always been drawn to paramilitary types. I’m a pilot. Gene was a pilot. One thing I’ve always perceived in Star Trek was the fine hand of that odd paramilitary mind that was trying to
preach peace. That’s a very interesting effect, rivaled in intensity only by the feelings of, let’s say, a reformed drunk. You’ve seen the horror. Now, you want to save others from it.

I had a very close relationship with the late Gene Coon as well, Trek’s line producer. I worked with Gene a lot during the last years of his life when we were both at Universal. Interestingly enough, Coon was also a paramilitary man. Crew-cut. The whole bit. He was an exmarine who preached peace because of his own experiences in war.”

A few years ago, when I came to Paramount for a three-year contract deal, I found myself a bachelor. My lady had moved out. I was sitting with Michael Eisner, the head of the studio, in his office. The studio hadn’t lost all interest in Star Trek at that point. He asked me if I’d be interested in making Star Trek II. It was to be a television movie with the potential for theatrical release. My answer was, having seen all the episodes of Trek, knowing and respecting both Roddenberry and Coon and wanting that woman back in my life… YES!” — Harve Bennett, STARLOG, July 1982, Issue 60, PAGE 17

41. IDIC Lives! - July 1, 2014

#36 Hat Rick, I did exactly what you say regarding perceiving the two Kirks – at first – with STID. I enjoyed STID for its own merits IOW. I even stated so on this site. But as time has passed, I find it isn’t working for me as it was. Not sure why… It is almost like an imperative from the great beyond and GR :-) Just kidding, I guess.

I don’t think TOS’s magic lies in its utopian vision for Earth (ok, not utopian but darn good). Or not as much as–in its belief and pride in being human (something which is often hard to do). Trek offers the belief that we can go out there in the galaxy as equals (at least on paper) to meet other advanced races, hold our heads up, and announce, “I am James T. Kirk, commanding the Starship Enterprise.” Kirk can do that with the big bad Vians (gulp) or the far-advanced Metrons, he is not apologetic for being human yet he tries to find the best of what that means.

I wrote a comment on another thread about how Trek is part of our collective consciousness, like a myth, and so is a stimulant, a conduit, for our collective evolution. So, no, its vision of economics and society might be off or impractical but its vision of what it means to be human – the BEST we can be (not the worst as we all too often are) –THAT is Trek’s brilliance.

And our advancements in technology and science tell us–we will be able to go into space one day fairly soon. Here come the humans… Kirk is each one of us, holding his own and surviving out there –keeping 430 humans alive too (yeah, I know there are some ETs in the crew, but ya know what I mean).

42. pilotfred - July 1, 2014

so same shit different writer plus its called bad robot for a reason aka bad movies

43. Finnigan - July 1, 2014

The bar has been lowered so much by STID that anything other than the silly writing we have had to endure would be an improvement.

Get the Enterprise far away from Earth.

Make Starfleet a competent and ethical organization.

No more maniacal bad guys out for revenge.

Lose the lens flares.

Totally lose the brewery for engineering.

Lose the silly phasers and make them more like the original. Same with the communicators. Both props are awful in these past two movies.

Make Kirk a mature and competent Starship Commander. Have him put in situations where he has to lead his crew, make decisions far away from the chain of command, and give him that heroic Kirk bravado and skill that we saw in Balance of Terror, Doomsday Machine, and Corbomite Maneuver. Make Kirk really act like Kirk!

Treat the Prime Directive with respect instead of something that is considered a dorm regulation meant to be violated.

Let’s just assume that there are gay people in the 23rd century instead of having to showcase them to be politically correct. Gays serve in Starfleet, we get it and accept it.

Go back to scientific accuracy and lose the magic blood writing mentality and convenient plot devices. Note: Cold fusion is really cold.

Stop pummeling the Big E and let’s not destroy another Enterprise, losing the old girl in The Search for Spock and in Generations was more than enough.

No Klingons or Romulans, we’re getting tired of them.

Let’s get going on that original 5 year mission. Let’s see what’s out there.

I’m just sayin’.

44. Finnigan - July 1, 2014

Error! Error! Non Sequitur! My last transmission should read “Cold fusion ISN’T cold!

45. IDIC Lives! - July 1, 2014

Finnigan, You’ve just been promoted 2 levels, no more going into the pod in an ion storm only to be catapulted into space, you can have your own starship, too. Brilliant! Exactly!!

46. IDIC Lives! - July 1, 2014

@ Finnigan, Oh sorry, that was Ben Finley. Ok Finnigan, you can still have your own ship. Great!!

47. Phil - July 1, 2014

Sorry, but while I do agree that TWOK is still the gold standard of Trek films, the writing was far from being a masterpiece. The movie is littered with plenty of WTH moments that could have easily been cleaned up had a second set of eyes read the script. The argument that the BR films are inferior to the original cast films because of writing is still fatally flawed….

48. Hat Rick - July 1, 2014

@dswynne, 37,

Regarding,

[i]The problem for me is that while resources may be plentiful, but there still has to be some manufacturing and service-based economy at work in order to effectively distribute those resources. What provides the incentive to build, maintain and operate a fleet of starships? I could understand that the pursuit of wealth may be gone (hence why critics of GR’s philosophy thinks that the Federation is a socialist utopia), but there has to be some sort of incentive AND cost involved that would determine why the Federation would commission the construction of starships, as well as what would keep the number of starships in check. I wouldn’t have a problem with the economics of ‘Trek if a credit-based currency system was explicitly stated, rather than gloss over the details.[/i]

Very nicely stated. I was thinking that there are certain things in TOS that suggest that not everything tangible is manufacturable or duplicable. Dilithium crystals, for example, must be mined. One can postulate that dilithium would “cost” more than even the rarest of diamonds on Earth. A wealthy trader might “pay” hundreds of thousands of Federation credits for a small dilithium ring, for example. It is equally possible that other rare minerals (extrapolated, for example, as gold-plated latinum by the time of DS9’s production) serve as the equivalent of gold in today’s economy, particularly between worlds.

The question of incentive is an intriguing one. Picard in ST:FC canonically stated that humankind works to better themselves. Is this not as valid an incentive as any? Or is there not an incentive toward exploration, or self-defense? But I think your question is deeper than that; it is whether there are principles of incentive and, conversely, principles of limitation (why are there not infinite numbers of starships?). Worthy of much consideration and debate.

Here’s another question: Is the Federation economy monistic, and if also, is it a form of market economy running on a fiat currency? What, exactly, is a Federation “credit”? By “monistic” I mean whether it claims to encompass all forms of value transactions; conversely, is there a formal parallel economy for high-value goods, such as starships or luxury items, or for trade between worlds that opt out of the main economy?

The U.S. prides itself on being a market economy in the 21st Century. But this market economy depends on a currency — the U.S. dollar — that has been released from a single standard (i.e., the gold standard) for many decades. The U.S. dollar is founded on the full faith and credit of (i.e., confidence in) the United States of America. This is why the recent threat to default on U.S. debt caused by the refusal of certain Congressional factions to raise the debt ceiling caused so much consternation. The value of the U.S. dollar depends on the confidence of the world that each dollar stands for some amount of value which allows each dollar to be exchanged for either that value, or something equivalent (e.g., euro or yen). The Federation credit, on the other hand, is not really specifically stated to be a form of fiat currency, but it could be. It could also be founded on a dilithium, latinum, or other rare-mineral standard. We simply don’t know. How it is underpinned as a symbol of set value is as yet unknown, so it is possible, by the same token, that the Federation credit (to the extent that it is usable as currency) is based on some formulation of the efforts of Federation citizens to create new products above and beyond what is manufacturable. Or it might not; all this is speculative, which is rather appropriate for speculative fiction. We know that this is fodder for thought-experimentation for those who are so inclined. I also believe that given the complexity of our own system and its adaptability, a Federation credit-based economy, whether or not based on current dollar-based, market-economy principles, could make sense given enough time and technological progress.

But what of the question of infinite starships?

A starship, or rather, its construction, is a collection of efforts (work) as well as tangible material. It seems likely that Federation credits are transferred for the expenditure of those efforts as an incentive to do such work, rather than, say, stay at home to create art or play music for pleasure. We know that there is such thing as “duty” in Starfleet, which means that there is such thing as “work” versus play (and indeed, there is a Recreation Room and Holodeck for the latter). Why would it not be possible to consider Federation credits to be allocable as “extras” that those so inclined are able to work on their construction, above and beyond the level of necessities (free to Federation citizens) that we today would consider almost luxurious? (Would this result in inequality over the long run? Perhaps.)

We see, though, that the efforts of citizens are a finite quantity. So, too, are the actual needs of the Federation to explore and defend, substantial though they may be. It may be that it is simply irrational to create more than a set number of starships, etc., because there is no need or perceived need, and it would be in some sense a waste of even the near-infinite energy supplies that are available.

49. dswynne - July 1, 2014

@40 (Disinvited): Interesting. Could have swore that HB was a “non-fan” (a person who was familiar with ‘Trek, but was not a “Trekkie”), until he got on board on TWOK.

50. Hat Rick - July 1, 2014

(Cont’d.)

One could ask, however, why it wouldn’t be possible for some irrational Federation citizen or group to create massive amounts of drone ships, or some sort of robotic army, using the near-endless supply of energy to do so? I can’t really answer that question, other than to say that there would probably be laws against it as a waste of resources (abundant though they might be), or that the laws wouldn’t be necessary because such irrationality is incomprehensible. In today’s world, air is free; we would hardly anticipate anyone attempting to monopolize air or holding it hostage (besides which the latter is illegal). Air is considered part of the commons we all share. It’s possible that such is the position of the Federation with regard to plentiful goods as well, and it seems to me that this would not be particularly socialistic, but simply a matter of practicality.

51. Disinvited - July 1, 2014

#49. dswynne – July 1, 2014

I think that was born out of an assumption that a lot of people made when he said the first thing he did when hired by Paramount was grab a bunch of reels of the first series’ episodes and study them. But he wasn’t doing that because he was unfamiliar with it, but rather because he wanted to take a more scholarly approach to them and actually study them.

52. Disinvited - July 1, 2014

#49. dswynne – July 1, 2014

Interesting you should say that as Meyers, himself, says he believes he was only hired to be the second set of eyes for the script Paramount already had and if he hadn’t turned in an acceptable rewrite that he would have been out as director.

53. Disinvited - July 1, 2014

#47. Phil – July 1, 2014

52, The message directly above was meant for you and not dswynne

54. Cygnus-X1 - July 1, 2014

15. Disinvited – July 1, 2014

I think the point they were trying to make about the Millenials is that their heroes are all overnight sensations which I would largely ascribe as having to do with the Internet in one way or the other.

That seems as good an interpretation as any.

However, I have to agree with 9. Ahmed – June 30, 2014.

Payne’s explanation (or was it McCay?) doesn’t resonate with me (how’s that for diplomatic phrasing?). It seems an ex post facto rationalization and, as Ahmed implied—the new, young writers, given their first big Hollywood job, toeing the company line. Can you imagine Orci, Kurtzman, Abrams, et al sitting around a table developing that Alt Kirk arc over two movies…Well, contemporary sociologists theorize that Millennials are more accustomed to overnight sensations than other generations, so let’s make Kirk….

(Doesn’t “resonate??” You callin’ me a larrrr?!?)

55. Hat Rick - July 1, 2014

@IDIC Lives!, 41,

It seems we do agree on quite a lot. I think that Trek has winnowed itself into the cultural milieu of much of the Western world on a multitude of levels — among other things, as entertainment, as philosophical fodder, as a quasi-way of life, as guidance, as a set of ideals, as inspiration, and even as terminology among the political and media class (“Vulcan” (used to refer to wise men in a recent political book); “warp speed;” “or Beam me up!” (the last famously and often said on the floor of the U.S. House of Representatives by a certain rough-edged Representative from Ohio who used it as an expression of disbelief at the “idiocy” of things he didn’t appreciate). The optimism and hope that underlies Star Trek — based on the idea that Star Trek’s future could possibly be our own — is arguably a unique mass cultural phenomenon unrivaled by anything short of a true religion or ancient school of philosophy. Much of this was deliberate — an appeal to the fan base’s desire to see their fondest hopes realized. But unlike most efforts, Trek was so well formulated, implemented, and sustained, that it remains a powerful cultural current today.

As fans, we can be proud of that fact — very proud, even as we recognize that reality does place some limits on what can be done. After all, we can still remember that Kennedyesque exhortation: “I dream of things that never were and ask, Why not?” Costly as things are, it’s still free to dream. And many of us, at heart, are dreamers of things that can be.

56. Disinvited - July 1, 2014

#54. Cygnus-X1 – July 1, 2014

Well, I’d definitely agree that if Orci said that it wouldn’t resonate. But I’ll entertain that for the 2 newguys it might resonate personally for them, such as it is.

And I’m still not sure this isn’t something coming out of Paramount’s voodoo research rather than BR’s.

57. Ahmed - July 1, 2014

@56. Disinvited

“But I’ll entertain that for the 2 newguys it might resonate personally for them, such as it is.”

In that case, lets hope that Kirk won’t get promoted to the rank of Admiral by the end of ST 13 :-)

“And I’m still not sure this isn’t something coming out of Paramount’s voodoo research rather than BR’s.”

Patrick McKay and J.D. Payne are part of BR team.

“Payne and McKay already worked on an adaptation of the graphic novel “Boilerplate” for Bad Robot, one of several projects in development at J.J. Abrams’ company, which has faith in the writers’ abilities.”

http://www.thewrap.com/star-trek-beams-up-writers-id-payne-patrick-mckay/

58. Riker's Mailbox - July 1, 2014

I see hope and promise with this new writing team. One thing I am disappointed with, however, is that they are not a part of a grand plan, much in the same way that other brands are being handled. All of them, for better or worse, seem to have a grand architect. Josh Whedon with Marvel’s movies and television shows, Zack Snyder with D.C. Comics, JJ Abrams with the Star Wars franchise. I think Star Trek, potentially, could benefit from this multi-channel model of primary movies, spinoff movies, comics, and television series, but there doesn’t seem to be a grand plan. I know it has a lot to do with the multiple owners of the Star Trek properties, CBS, Paramount and whomever else, but it would be pretty cool if they could pull it off.

59. Disinvited - July 1, 2014

#57. Ahmed – July 1, 2014

I know they are BR. I’m just not so sure the line they were being fed didn’t originate from Paramount so-called “research”.

60. Cygnus-X1 - July 1, 2014

56. Disinvited – July 1, 2014

And I’m still not sure this isn’t something coming out of Paramount’s voodoo research rather than BR’s.

I’m very curious about Paramount’s voodoo research, myself. I just made a comment relating thereto in the Remember Me (1 of 3) thread.

61. IDIC Lives! - July 1, 2014

#55 Hat Rick We do reach! Here is how I might put it:
There is the personal spell which Star Trek (TOS in particular), wove and still weaves for people on a personal basis: the geeky kid who is made fun of but who is very bright and loves his Spock tunic, going to conventions, and lives in his dreams. That kid probably grew up to do things in the technical or scientific field or possibly the philosophical, humanities field.

I am a science speculation writer/futurist by profession for over 30 years (I say that simply in trying to explain where I am coming from), and have documented in several ways, the influence Trek has on individual people who feel like strangers in a strange land all their lives. I would post a link to a sample article of mine but do not want my identity exposed as a few folk on this site seem to hate me.

But these alienated kids also are part of the collective human consciousness, that unique hum which makes us not a wolf, not a parrot, but human. One’s species is not just a physical thing, it is what behaviors are a part of your mind. The wolf has a very specific hum, how it thinks, feels, and acts – the Wolf Hum.

So for almost 50 years, that magic which Trek achieved, has streamed into the human collective consciousness and snowballed as we evolve. Like the individual alienated child, there is a need in the entire species to evolve, to find something better, to be more intelligent. The stars call us even as we love Earth.

Roddenberry was perhaps at his purest and best with TOS. Gawd knows I don’t need the Next Gen people hating me as much as a few STID people do apparently, but by the time GR did TNG and the other Trek series, he had become involved with a metaphysical group, the Council of 9, which had been around along time in various forms and sought contact with ETs. That’s strange because originally GR had stated he did not believe in UFOs. So he was really into it but perhaps not as fresh in his own perspective as when he did TOS.

The point is, GR seemed to know, too, that these ideas in him were part of the missing pieces of human consciousness – we NEED to be “of the stars” BUT–we had no collective voice for it. Sure, we had “The Day the Earth Stood Still” and many science fiction books, but we had no modern expression for that small geeky voice inside us which says, “I want to captain a starship, meet aliens, and see the galaxy up close. I want to be part of the universe and explore it – learn!”

GR tapped into this small sad voice in the collective consciousness, and by now, it has evolved to a loud, grown up, demanding voice, “We have to go out there, we must boldly go or stagnate as a species, we must evolve!”

GR tried to say these things in the ST:TMP but it got f___ up, mostly thanks to Paramount, the director, and so forth.

So, for many years I have mapped, or tried to, the Trek phenomenon in human consciousness. These days, with all the new science and technology exploding on the scene (quantum physics –wow!!), the dream which said, “Why Not?” is very close to becoming, “Why not!! No reason at all, and so we are doing it!”

Humans are not meant to just gather laurel leaves. We need a challenge as a species. Star Trek showed the way, made the path, for individuals and for the species.

62. Hat Rick - July 1, 2014

@Riker’s Mailbox, 58,

Interesting comments. I would note, though, that JJ Abrams is slated to be replaced as director after he’s done with the forthcoming SW movie. He would apparently remain as producer for the sequel (if any) after that, much as currently is his position in Star Trek (2016). He may yet return to ST as a director in the future — who knows? And in the meantime (in addition having directed ST(2009) and STID), as producer, he’s the common factor (along with Bob Orci) in all three post-Nemesis movies.

In theory, Mr. Abrams would be best positioned to be the grand visionary behind post-Nemesis Trek. However, as you note, the division of ownership between CBS and Paramount (which is itself owned by the current version of Viacom) makes coordination of the entire franchise difficult, as he has no authority over non-cinematic Trek even if he were try to assert it. (The current Viacom is a company spun off from the original Viacom, which at or nearly at the same time, also spun off CBS.) It would be like trying to push a wet string up a ramp from one end.

Interestingly, to compound the difficulty, Paramount actually merely licenses the rights to Star Trek from CBS, so in theory CBS has a higher ownership interest (as licensor) than Paramount (or Bad Robot) (as licensee). In other words, CBS could hypothetically, under the terms of the license, exercise in accordance its terms, a right (if so provided or permitted) to revoke Paramount’s license. (See: http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star_Trek_corporate_history ).

I think that we can all agree that any such revocation is virtually inconceivable in practice given (1.) the lack of rational cause for doing so; and (2.) the uninterest CBS has shown toward producing televised Star Trek.

Until CBS (technically, CBS Television Studios) agrees to appoint a Star Trek czar of sorts with authority over Star Trek in all its production forms — and why would it, for now? –, there really isn’t anyone who could be deemed the ultimate supervisor of the Star Trek universe.

That said, I’ve read that both companies (CBS Television Studios, through its owner, CBS Corporation, and Viacom) are controlled by Sumner Redstone and his family. No words on whether Mr. Redstone is, or ever was, a fan of Star Trek.

63. Finnigan - July 1, 2014

#46 IDIC Lives! Close, but that would be Ben Finney, LCDR, Records Officer on the USS Enterprise. No relation to Upper Class Midshipman Finnigan, one of Jimmy Boy’s “friends” at the Academy.

64. IDIC Lives! - July 1, 2014

#63, Finnigan, Ok, take shore leave on the Pleasure Planet, your suggestions are great, no matter how much I screw up your name.

65. William Bradley - July 1, 2014

I watched STID a month or so ago as I was thinking about some of its competition — ie, the Marvelverse — and how compelling and successful that is.

This was the third time I’ve seen STID.

It barely registered this time.

66. dswynne - July 1, 2014

I think the problem with some of these statements I’m reading here is that there should be a return to a format that is unrealistic. As I’ve stated many times in the past, ST09 made more money than the last four TNG films combined. I also stated that the reason why BR got to produce the films is to broaden the audience appeal to the franchise. As much as I consider STTMP to be my favorite ST film, for being purely sci-fi, followed by STIV, we’re not going to get a purely sci-fi film. A ST film has to be the “thinking man’s action film”, which thought-provoking themes are mixed in with the action. It has to have heart, and has to be original in order to keep it fresh. In fact, most TOS episodes had action in it, but there was point to the action. And above all, you guys going to have to accept that certain relationship dynamics have changed: Spock has Uhura to confide in, while Kirk had Dr. McCoy, even as Kirk has a relationship with Uhura because of their shared past. And, above all,the characters have to avoid being cartoon characters, by being three-dimensional ones.

Respect the old, but make something new, I say.

67. Ahmed - July 1, 2014

@66. dswynne

“As I’ve stated many times in the past, ST09 made more money than the last four TNG films combined. ”

None of the four TNG movies had a $150 million budget like ST09 did or were released in the summer!

“Respect the old, but make something new, I say.”

Agreed.

68. Vultan - July 1, 2014

I don’t want a return to the TOS movies or even the series. I don’t want TNG. I just want a story that’s well written and directed, somewhere above the level of quality of a Michael Bay style hyperkinetic, exploitative toy commercial. I want characters instead of caricatures.

I don’t think that’s too much to ask.

69. IDIC Lives! - July 1, 2014

As I read the variety of these comments, I do think we are in agreement by and large. No one expects a return to TOS; for that, just look at Star Trek Continues :-)

There could be a basically science fiction storyline with “thinking man’s action” but yes–

PLEASE, no more caricatures!

70. Luke Montgomery - July 1, 2014

I’m so tired of the annoying nobody’s nothings bagging on the last 2 Star Trek films, Bob Orci, JJ Abrams and saying that the films are “not Star Trek.” No one pays you for your ideas about anything and that’s why you are on a blog in the comments trying to tear at the amazing work of others. This cabal of losers who constantly throw out negative things in the comments here are annoying beyond words. I can only take comfort in the fact that this is their only outlet in the world and that they are irrelevant, forgettable and sad wastes of space. No one cares what you think. You are talent-free trolls. Let’s get back to this site being about our love for Trek and not the endless stream of nasty comments from a few bullies with nothing to back it up bozos nasty rants. Shatner put it best a few decades ago, “Get a life”.

71. Hat Rick - July 1, 2014

@IDIC Lives!, 61,

Might I say, your passion is certainly impressive! I hope that, if the new writers and Roberto Orci are reading this thread, they are reminded of why Trek fans are so vocal and adamant about our favorite entertainment franchise. Your sentiments remind me of a common bond between many fans of Trek — the idealism and hopefulness for a better tomorrow.

You’ve pointed out that GR’s Trek was a distillation of these hopes and, even more, has contributed to moving us along the pathway toward which the better sides of our collective consciousness tends. There’s something of Carl Jung in that analysis, but perhaps also of Marshall McLuhan. To outsiders, it all sounds a bit “New Agey” and not the least bit scientific; but, as I say to some skeptical friends of mine, quantum physics is an example of a hard science, and what we know of quantum physics is that we don’t know much about it, particularly as it relates to human consciousness. Specifically, there are some scholars who now believe that quantum physics admits the possibility of human freedom on a deep level, resolving to some extent the question of the so-called “illusion” of choice.

Regardless, it is easy to see how having a focal point for millions of viewers was a net positive in moving forward the shared goals for posterity. In this sense, GR’s creation, in conjunction with the efforts of many others, both benefited and benefited from the futurism it espoused.

The creation became the creator of even more than had been hoped for.

So could this be a gloss on the next Star Trek movie? The new Transformers movie has made $300 million in its first weekend alone, accounting for 150% of its cost, (See: BoxOfficeMojo.com.) What does Star Trek have that puts this to shame? My answer is that Trek has plenty — an embarassment of riches.

Despite all the progress we’ve made in some many fields, in 2014, some of us do contend with a degree of fearfulness about the future. Are we, in producing intelligent machines, sealing our own doom? Has anomie raised its ugly head in a fragmented world where a multitude of screens divide as much as they inform? How do we affirm the positive rather than create the negative? This is not a question that invites a simple answer. We seem to lack the political will necessary to assuage our own fears of obsolescence. Here, too, we might look to Star Trek for guidance, for TOS was created when two superpowers held the fate of the world in their nuclear arms. Out of an atmosphere of fear, it depicted a hopeful future.

Rather than give in to fear, Trek tells us to move beyond it. Both individually and as a civilization, we can act heroically — to boldly go where no one has gone before. In thinking about this, perhaps this is what I mean by “Star Trek premises.”

Part of the genius of Trek is that while it is about the future, it is also about the present, telling us that it is the “now” that engenders the “next.” Just as the past desires have lead to present achievements, present aspirations will lead to positive change if we are wise enough to choose the best path. After all, the evidence of that is all around you.

72. IDIC Lives! - July 1, 2014

Hat Rick, this sounds corny (hey, I am from Iowa), but to quote Kirk and Edith, we speak the same language, the very same. Research for my writing has taken me into the field of quantum physics, not the math – I never received that kind of education – but into the concepts and the possible implications, the possible realities, and what is reality?

Could the concept of quantum entanglement ever be worked into a Trek film, for instance? Einstein called it “spooky action at a distance.” Plots from 1960s TOS do not have to be re-done, there is a universe of new subjects to blow people’s minds! They can be worked into an intelligent film which has plenty of action.

Just several of the famous quotes which “explain” quantum research as well as it can be explained in a few words:

“If quantum physics hasn’t shocked you, you have not understood it yet.” – Niels Bohr

“Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real.” – Niels Bohr

“By believing passionately in something that still does not exist, we create it. The nonexistent is whatever we have not sufficiently desired.” – Nikos Kazantzakis

I should add that Nikos Kazantzakis was not a theoretical physicist, he wrote “Zorba the Greek” and “the Last Temptation of Christ.” But he realized that we create our reality as well as perceiving it.

What I’m trying to say is, Star Trek deserves better treatment than it has received at the hands of nuTrek. It has been dumbed down – and, shoot, did I make someone angry when I said that months ago! Sorry, it is the truth.

I know we have to always cater to the money Paramount “must make” but there are so many generic summer popcorn fantasy films. However, look how well “Gravity” did when they dared to be different and to be actual science fiction!

I hope the writers and folk involved in the 3rd movie read this too, Hat Rick — I hope they read everyone’s comments who want MORE QUALITY than what we have been given. I know there are all sorts of pressures to make Trek palatable to the public at large and millennials to be specific, but if you could boldly go, DARE–just a bit–to create what we have suggested on this thread…..!

Star Trek is something special in our culture. Look at what it has created, from hand-held medical scanners to warp drive research to the ability to look at our species from above the trees. Can we turn our human inclination to go to war with each other, into daring to go together into the final frontier of space?

Our planet is in trouble ecologically and we as a human race seem somewhat lost, fragmented and unhappy. Star Trek shows us a path we can take which is full of discovery, exploration, and offers us “places to go we have not dreamed of!” (that is a quote from Neil Armstrong).

73. Hat Rick - July 1, 2014

@IDIC Lives!, 72,

Once again, I’m glad we agree. There is much in what you’ve said to think about and to learn, quite profitably.

As for speaking the same language, I’m not surprised, since the concepts of hope and idealism are universal, howsoever they may otherwise be hidden.

Thank you for your contributions!

74. The Quickening - July 1, 2014

#31
This is what frightens me about today’s films and film audiences—especially as they relate to genre movies. Subtlety and understatement are not appreciated. And I doubt theme and subtext are ever really noticed or understood—probably because most films don’t have any, and if they do, they are sporadic and undeveloped.

If you think TWOK felt like a TV episode, then you didn’t really understand what makes this movie so great. The film constructs plot and character on top of subtext using the theme of life, death and mortality as it’s idiom. This theme permeates in almost every frame of the movie. It’s not about production design, fx, cgi or whatever the latest techno gimmick is. Sorry you missed, and possibly didn’t understand one of the greatest sci-fi films ever.

I think the creators of STID were attempting to make the movie about something. I get that. I applaud them for it. But what they really did was to confuse trendy social pretentious handwaving–911 terrorism–for genuine theme. I’ve always felt that STAR TREK loses it’s way when it confuses news headlines for universal truths. There’s a difference. I hope the makers of ST3 don’t go down this road again.

75. gs - July 1, 2014

“They are the guiding light”

With lens-flare of course.

76. Cygnus-X1 - July 1, 2014

68. Vultan – July 1, 2014

I don’t want a return to the TOS movies or even the series. I don’t want TNG. I just want a story that’s well written and directed, somewhere above the level of quality of a Michael Bay style hyperkinetic, exploitative toy commercial. I want characters instead of caricatures. I don’t think that’s too much to ask.

You want free pizza and beer with that, too?!?

You Talifans are out of control with your outrageous demands!

77. Cygnus-X1 - July 1, 2014

66. dswynne – July 1, 2014

A ST film has to be the “thinking man’s action film”, which thought-provoking themes are mixed in with the action. It has to have heart, and has to be original in order to keep it fresh….And, above all,the characters have to avoid being cartoon characters, by being three-dimensional ones….Respect the old, but make something new, I say.

I agree.

I’d even be satisfied with a different production company doing Trek on TV while BR does their Michael Bay with lens flares action movies.
But BR being the sole standard-bearer for Trek is depressing—One disappointing movie every 4 years.

78. The Keeper - July 1, 2014

Repackaged for the current future generations.
Meaning, more Khan, more Klingons and throw away Romulans. More Tribbles, more trans-warp beaming and more lens flares to hide the already tired story…not to mention to hide what is surely going to be the most laughable and cringe setting directorial debut in the history of Hollywood.

That’s right boys and girls, you read it here first and will deny these words till the day this movie premiers.

Adult thinking peoples Star Trek has died, replaced by childrens transparent stories.

79. Ahmed - July 1, 2014

@ 75. gs – July 1, 2014

““They are the guiding light”

With lens-flare of course.”

LOL, that is a very good one :-)

80. Chadp - July 1, 2014

I have been a Star Trek fan my whole life not an obsessed fan mind you but a fan none the less. I am thirty-one. Rarely do I post on boards like like this but felt like from some of the things I have been reading I should say something to bring things down to earth.

This is not the place or the forum for attacking people this is a site for Star Trek fans to come and talk about the franchise they love. Everyone has an opinion and no opinion is right or wrong. There is no need to attack each other because you don’t agree with their opinion. Sometimes you just have to agree to disagree. If you don’t like something someone says just ignore them.

Everyone has different degrees of fandom we all have different things we like and don’t like about Star Trek. Maybe if we found things to agree on rather than attacking each other for what we disagree on this would be a happier place. Everyone is Entitled to there opinion let’s just be careful how we express that so we do not hurt,bully,or belittle others. I’m not pointing my finger at anyone specific this message is for everyone.

Let’s just all come together in peace in the spirit of Star Trek and talk about a franchise we all love. Let’s give Mr. Orci, Mr. McKay and Mr. Payan are support and encouragement and let’s all look forward to the future of the Star Trek franchise. Thanks for allowing me to share my opinion now let’s all live long and prosper.

81. Hat Rick - July 1, 2014

@Chadp, 82,

Thank you for those wise words. I second your motion.

Your words are courageous ones, because peacemaking between hostile factions is a thankless task. Those who had once found you agreeable might take offense, and those who never liked you have another reason not to.

I, too, have difficulty with words aimed not just at one another, safe behind screen names, but at real people who are really committed to their work. I find such belittling or predictions of failure and doom rather unbecoming. I honestly cannot fathom why people would attack producers or writers in advance of their work assuming the worst, or looking exclusively at the parts of previous work which, for some reason, they find so highly offensive.

I wish we would engage the filter against coarse or unpleasant speech before we express our outrage at one thing or another. Expressing outrage in this context is easy; being thoughtful is not. This may be the Internet, but we’re not in the Wild West — we’re on a Trek fan site. Let’s all act more like it, please?

82. Vultan - July 1, 2014

#76

Do I get the salad bar with that? ;-)

83. Chadp - July 1, 2014

@Hat Rick

Thanks for that. We have to much hate in this world the last thing we need is Star Trek fans turning against each other. No one is perfect everything the writers write isn’t going to be perfect we may not always agree with every decision the writers make but they are people too just doing there job trying to write the best story they can trying to entertain us keeping Star Trek alive in the process.

Not every episode of Star Trek was perfect not every movie was perfect but we still can find things to enjoy about them and just be great full Star Trek is still around. There where things I liked about Into Darkness and things I didn’t but I didn’t let that take away from the enjoyment of the movie.

Sure there where things I may have done differently but at the end of the day it was just a movie and I’m not going to get mad over it or have hate for the writers because I didn’t like what they did. I will take what I get and be happy and thankful Star Trek is still around. I have hope for the future of Star Trek and trust they writing team to give us a great movie.

84. Jonboc - July 1, 2014

These guys sound promising. With Bob Orci riding shotgun and events taking us out into deep space, I’m looking for a some good old fashioned, TOS-style exploration, awe of the unknown, fantastic worlds, action, adventure and danger at every turn.

What I’m not expecting, isTNG-style endless technobabble, pretentious preaching, not-so-clever allegories and conflict-free soapy drama.

And, sorry Chadp, but the resident JJ haters on this board will never go away…even though there will never be any oil for these squeaky wheels. They know Bob pops in on occasion, so they get some sort of bizzaro kick out of knowing their prattle has the writer/director’s ear. A deaf ear, I’m sure, but they like to drone on and on anyway. Sadly, we will all have to listen to their dreary rumblings for another 2 years and even beyond, regardless of how successful the next movie is.

85. Hat Rick - July 1, 2014

@Chadp, 83, you’re very welcome.

I’d also like to take this opportunity to point to an interesting little news item that may have missed the notice of our eagle-eyed TrekMovie staff. Since it’s been a whole entire day without a new article, I thought I’d contribute one in this thread (not being to create a new article, obviously). Consider this a story suggestion, if you might.

For those of us of a certain age, part of the fun of having cable TV, even before the days of HBO, Cinemax, or even the fabled Z TV (in the Greater Los Angeles Area) was tuning in the local cable access shows. Remember SNL’s Wayne (“Party on, Garth!”) and Garth (“Party on, Wayne!”)? They are perhaps the most recognizable hosts of a fictional local cable access show ever. But all across North America, there were literally thousands of amateur producers, anchors, interviewers, reporters, and exhibitioners, with talents ranging from “Near Pro” to “Needs Improvement” to “Sound the gong, for the love of God, sound the gong!”, who on a daily basis showed their stuff. Their stuff being mainly what they were into at the moment.

Cable access — now, those were the days. And this is abundantly clear from a collection of cable access shows specializing in Trek that ran in the days of yore, as covered in this interesting story at BlogTO:

http://www.blogto.com/city/2014/06/that_time_when_star_trek_fever_gripped_scarborough/

Sure beats re-runs of the Rob Ford show, that’s for sure.

86. Captain Smirk - July 1, 2014

“La-la-la… obligatory reference to the Original Series… la-la-la… refer to the most famous episode of a different Star Trek series as though it’s relevant… la-la-la… blow smoke up our collective orifices about boldly going for a change… la-la-la… butt-kissing promise to be just like Star Trek 11 and 12, when both of those sucked… la-la-la…”

Shut it!

87. Marja - July 1, 2014

28 Mad Mann, I think their line about the Millenials is to flatter the Millenials, to whom, largely, they are marketing the movie. I think it’s directed toward their ability to innovate. But who knows. Most interviews are promotional fluff.

88. Marja - July 1, 2014

29 Timo Kebel, About the mission I pretty much would love Kirk fighting his inner demons after the events of into darkness. So that we have that prime mission in the forground but something within Kirk that is threatening to harm the whole crew or worse whole mankind. A multiple conflict within the storyline would be interesting. … Also one more thing. Make any encounter one that counts not just one that is fency and cool, like the not so logically solid klingon action programm we had in into darkness. … Also I think we should have some transwarp beaming aftermath. Maybe something that threatens Scotty more than Kirk, because Kirk is regenerated by Khans Blood. Maybe Scotty could experience some heavy genetic degeneration that threatens his life.

These sound like some great ideas!

Although I’m a little worried that the threat in Trek 3 is, again, going to be the annihilation of all mankind. I’d rather see them go a little smaller. A planet, say, or a solar system. “We’re Starfleet/Federation and we care about the whole galaxy, not just Earth.” I love the idea someone else expressed about the Enterprise being the Enterprise “family’s” haven in space.

89. Keachick (Rose) - July 1, 2014

#24 – “The introduction to little Spock was a tad better but the Vulcan bullies acted like human kids, not the image we were given of Vulcan (except during mating)”

How should the Vulcan children have acted, given they were bullying young Spock? We have never been shown Vulcan children but it was Amanda, Spock’s mother, who revealed that Spock had been bullied as a child by other Vulcan children because he was half-human. Spock would come home crying (TOS episode: Journey to Babel). What is also known is that the Vulcans can experience the similar kinds of emotions to that of humans and sometimes with greater depth and that suppressing these sometimes violent emotions is something that is learned and practiced.
This is a nitpick on the part of the poster.

“Kirk drinks a lot when things go wrong which is often (which he never did)”

The movies did not show this Kirk drinking a lot. He was sitting at a bar (in both movies) having A drink. In the TOS series, there were times when Dr McCoy would offer Kirk a (medicinal) brandy and Kirk was seen ordering a drink for himself at a bar at the time when he faced a court martial. The only difference is that this young Kirk is alone, whereas TOS Kirk was with one other person, but still alcohol was being consumed by the same man/character when he was under stress or relaxing on his own time.

As far as I can see, nobody has corrected IDIC on these basic and obvious mistakes.

I get tired of how people keep getting this nuKirk wrong. I am not sure now if it is just silliness or intentional.

90. Marja - July 1, 2014

31 Dan,TWOK was too slow paced and stuffed with Kirks over acting to be justified as the golden movie of the Star Trek Universe. I speak for myself, but even STID was better than that movie, I fall asleep everytime I watch it.
Star Trek is made for TV not movies, but if your going to make for a movie it needs to be able to hold your attention the way a movie should, TWOK felt to much like a long TV episode.

I think you have been most fortunate to grow up in a time when there was plenty of quality Trek on TV. Yes, many of us agree that Trek is made for TV. But in the 1980s, when WOK made a big impression on an older generation of Trek fans, it was exciting, the Mutara nebula was beautiful, the “submarine” strategies of the two ships suspenseful, and so on. By the time of TNG, you could see a nebula every week, so it was nothing special, and thus, I think, WOK struck you as boring. I don’t know if you’re a Summer Blockbuster-only fan, or if you liked “Gravity” as another, different type of movie.

Summer blockbusters hold attention by using a lot of action [to me, at least, "excessive and repetitive and overly violent" action]. A movie like “Gravity” held the audience’s attention through suspense, and it had great FX, though, as Dr Neal DeGrasse Tyson has said, not great science.

Many of us wish for a suspenseful Trek movie with lots of sci-fi and character exploration, not a lot of action set pieces interspersed with 60 seconds of terse/funny dialogue, but unfortunately Paramount insists on releasing Star Trek movies during Summer Blockbuster season.

IMO, they’ve done a remarkable job squeezing in as much Nu-character personal interactions/experiences as they have, considering the apparent obligation to produce an explosion, chase, or disaster sequence every 10 minutes or so.
——————————————————————————————
80 Chadp and 81 Hat Rick, Well said. Thank you for saying it.

91. Hat Rick - July 1, 2014

@Keachick, 89,

This might seem unexpected given that I’ve agreed with IDIC Lives! on varoius issues, but I will join you in defending the portrayal of Kirk in ST(2009) by rationalizing his behavior through the context and explicit premises of the movie. In my initial reply to him, I did say that I needed to “retcon” similar aspects of dissimilarity, but the terms “rationalize” or “conform” his behavior (to the premises of the story) are better choices in retrospect.

I can easily see a defense of the writers’ decision to portray Kirk in the way they did as arising from a need to emphasize the psychological distance between this Kirk, given his radically different environment and upbringing, and the Kirk was saw in the Prime Universe. In fact, it seems very arguablel that there should be a great difference between a young, less mature Kirk whose father was killed in a traumatic event that derailed his entire life, and the mature Kirk who led a relatively privileged life that we saw in TOS. Kirk Prime was, perhaps, seven to ten years older than Pine’s Kirk. The former, in additionally, never experienced the childhood trauma and stayed along an academic and career path that rewarded and emphasized an almost military discipline — his father, after all, was a Starfleet officer. The differences between the two versions of the character gives the writers freedom to show the maturation process and how the young, rebellious Kirk became — despite his environmental handicaps — the Kirk we first saw and came to admire.

But I hope, too, that you can appreciate how people who disagree with this portrayal of Kirk are correct by the own lights. For example, I think that it can be said, depending on your overall preference, that the difference is unnecessarily extreme and crude, and that the plot device of “the universe will unfold as it should,” pushing young Kirk toward the mold of Kirk Prime, seems a contrivance. I think that the differences of opinion are a matter of taste, not a difference of fundamental values. Or perhaps they arise from a different interpretation of what Trek should aspire toward. Many of us simply don’t want to see our heroes portrayed in such a different light, and question the real value of doing so. From a debate as to why each side draws its conclusions, we should glean some insight into the merits of each side of the argument; I think we would agree that we would like a difference of opinion to produce more light than heat, regardless of what has actually seemed to occur.

It’s fun to debate, until someone makes a mistake and feelings are hurt, and then it really isn’t fun at all. I hope everyone involved understands that none of us here should take things so seriously that we injure the feelings of others for so little reason.

92. Disinvited - July 1, 2014

# 70. Luke Montgomery – July 1, 2014

” Shatner put it best a few decades ago, “Get a life”.” — Luke Montgomery

No he didn’t. Shatner has never claimed to have written or ad libbed that line. It was created by the SNL writer, Robert Smigel, better known for his Triumph, the insult comic dog character. You and others who continue to try to invoke this line in this erroneous fashion of being unable to distinguish the actor from the actual creator of his written lines, are demonstrating the exact same failing to see the truth, as those you claim deserve to be bludgeoned with it.

93. Alternate_Bearded Spock - July 1, 2014

I still don’t get the whole reboot thing. Has the universe changed so much compared to TOS? Are the characters and situations now that much different?
We now have all of the TOS characters well and alive and in their regular roles out on their five year mission on the Enterprise.
The stories that were told in the last two movies would have been possible in to the prime universe, too – with some small changes that would not have affected the story at all – Khan could have been someone else as it didn’t make sense for him to be Khan in the first place.

So what – except for the different look of things justified the alternate universe? Why blow up Vulcan when it didn’t have any impact on the universe?

I would have expected some really big changes. But right now there is next to nothing changed compared to TOS. So why the alternate universe?

94. Marja - July 2, 2014

93 Alternate Bearded, I still don’t get the whole reboot thing. Has the universe changed so much compared to TOS? Are the characters and situations now that much different?

Uh, yeah.

See the above postings in the thread :-)

Things have changed vastlly, some would say for worse, some would say good for variety, some would say “meh” and some would say “feh!”

95. dswynne - July 2, 2014

@78 (The Keeper): Actually, I have no problem with any of those. The trick, however, is how to write the indicators that makes those plot devices non-Deus Ex Machina. An example of this is the movie “Inception”. The character Ariadne (The Architect) learned early on why you can’t simply manipulate a person’s dreams head-on, even though she was very good at it. Same thing here. Just because there is trans-warp beaming, that doesn’t mean that you could or should utilize it any time you want. Even in ST09, trying to use transwarp beaming had almost had gotten Scotty killed. Besides, if technology is going to advance, it will be inevitable that transwarp beaming will be standard, and, in fact, allow for greater opportunities for deep space travel. My 2 cents.

96. French Trekkie - July 2, 2014

My two cents about next movie.

Someone said that a copy of Shatner/Kirk exists in the Nexus. I thought about it too right after ST 2009 and it’s a good idea, provided that there’s a real will to have Shatner back in the franchise.

I’d really love that, to end things clean and honorably.

Maybe another idea is to have the new crew confronted to an entity from deep space and make old Spock help. At the end of the movie, old Spock having saved the day and finished establishing the new vulcan colony would like to go back to his own timeline.

And when back, he would at our big surprise meet Shatner Kirk who’d have aged as well. How is it possible as he vanished in the Enterprise B incident and later got killed by Dr. Soran in ST Generations ? Well … alternate/parallel universes don’t always behave the same … Maybe the Nexus lightning has stricken a different part of the Enterprise, or maybe Kirk and Picard came out alive from the Soran confrontation.

Or maybe and I prefer this one : old Spock has illogically told young Kirk not to be a part of the Enterprise B’s maiden voyage. The last illogical move of an old vulcan just whishing to meet again his old friend.

The conclusion of the movie would be the two Shatner/Nimoy reunion, the former welcoming his friend as if nothing had never happened, the latter interiorly happy and relieved that everything is back to “normal”.

That way, the young and new crew can go on exploring strange new worlds and the old folks can live the rest of their life at peace.

This is just my opinion but it would be a great way to celebrate 50 years of Trek and open new perspectives for the future of the franchise.

Of course it depends on many things : would the new audiance be receptive to an apparition of Shatner ? In France, only a few ones know about Shatner being the prime Captain Kirk and nowadays movies are made not only for domestic market. Also Shatner has always said that he won’t cameo but want a real role.

I really loved the scene (written by Bob Orci if I remember correctly) from ST2009 about Kirk appearing in an hologram and whishing happy birthday to old Spock. Too bad it was not filmed…

97. IDIC Lives! - July 2, 2014

#73 Hat Rick “This might seem unexpected given that I’ve agreed with IDIC Lives! on varoius issues, but I will join you in defending the portrayal of Kirk in ST(2009) by rationalizing his behavior through the context and explicit premises of the movie. In my initial reply to him, I did say that I needed to “retcon” similar aspects of dissimilarity, but the terms “rationalize” or “conform” his behavior (to the premises of the story) are better choices in retrospect.”

“In my initial reply to him…” I assume you were referring to me, not nuKirk.
I’m female.

I know, most people into quantum stuff are male.

I also just have to say, I am not the standard bearer for disliking nuKirk. My point of view is on the positive (that Star Trek could make such a great film), but having to defend my opinion creates the need to point out nuTrek’s faults; this is a syndrome of which we are all captive.

98. IDIC Lives! - July 2, 2014

It’s time that nuTrek take a valid scientific premise, take some liberty with it (that’s what science fiction does), and make it the central plot. A few examples: the parallel universes of “Mirror, Mirror,” the time travel of “Tomorrow Is Yesterday” (and other episodes), the non-corporeal, sheer consciousness of “Errand of Mercy” (and others).

No more political intrigue on and near Earth and as has been said so often, the plot should not be woven around a central villain (for a change).

We need the wonder and horror of deep space starfields and mind boggling phenomena. If there must be a villain, I agree, Garth is your man. There is a whole background there, Garth having been Fleet Captain in an earlier day, and having shape-shifting capabilities and more.

99. Hat Rick - July 2, 2014

Hi, IDIC Lives!,

Sorry for misstating your gender!

As for your comments, I very often find them quite reasonable and was simply responding regarding the Kirk matter as I did because one of your posts to me had been cited by Keachick.

As you can see, our positions are in fact quite similar in most respects.

100. Keachick (Rose) - July 2, 2014

#98 – So you think you are being original here…well, guess what, you are not.

I have been saying that these movies should be going far, going where no one has gone before, discovering new life and worlds, cultures, anomalies (until they are better understood) etc where battles/wars, destruction in space or on worlds do not occur or if there is such, only very briefly. I have been doing that since I first posted here in 2010.

I suggested a new world, people and species, ie Menosians and Nulis, living in an unusual part of space where it seemed to ebb in and out like the huge of tide of a massive ocean. Menosians are humanoid who are healthy, loving and peaceful and the nulis are a unique form of life, which are intelligent, sentient, animal, vegetable and mineral and some are naturally space faring. They enjoy the company of the menosians and happily share the planet. Some love having some menosians aboard as they wander around their part of space, just looking, exploring nearby worlds, playing with one another…

I do not know how scientifically feasible it is. It is possible that similar may have done before in one of the TV series – an episode of Voyager comes to mind. However, that does not mean that something similar cannot be discovered in another part of the galaxy.

If there is an adversary, it may well some natural phenomena threatening or some rogue outfit “violating the Prime Directive” among other things, that cause the Menosian world grief…and guess which is the “only ship in the quadrant”…very Star Trek, as far as I am concerned.

I read lots of words (and much berating of the latest film) but nothing concrete, except mention of characters already known within Star Trek. Nothing new.

I do not mind seeing various characters from the TOS series, btw…

You may ignore me. Hopefully, others will not.

101. Oscar - July 2, 2014

Ugh, the Orci’s mariachi and the Abrams kult…again
I’m rationalist and agnostic….
Facts, give me facts, I do not want more bombastic blah blah blah…

98.
You want Star Trek, amigo, and nu trek is GI JOE TREK. Mindles action and more brawn than brain…this is its brand.

But remember, december 2014: Interstellar, what Nu Trek should have been.

102. Marja - July 2, 2014

Dear Oscar, enjoy “Interstellar,” come here and tell us how much you loved it and why. I bet lots of us will love it too.

103. Hat Rick - July 2, 2014

@Marja, 90, you’re welcome! If we don’t set a good example as Trek fans, then we let the detractors set the narrative. No one should define Trekkies or Trek fans (the same thing, as far as I’m concerned) except we, ourselves, by our own behavior. There’s nothing wrong with being polite and considerate; the entire world of the Internet has so many examples of people doing their best to be snarky because, in their lights, it shows their wit. In most cases, Oscar Wilde they are not. Cases of genuine wit are rare and far in between.

Regarding your comments about today’s movie-going audience, I am agreement that “talkiness” and exposition are to same what sunlight is to vampires, particularly in the summer blockbuster mode. People expect movies to approximate a roller-coaster at their local amusement park. To many, never mind the drops themselves — the incessant clatter of the coaster ratcheting up a hill becomes an expectation that makes silence uncomfortable, unexpected, and unwanted.

I noted in the first post in this thread that the new movie “must appeal to modern sensibilities.” This is my concession to the summer-blockbuster syndrome, but as I said, it is not one that I would start with as a screenwriter. The adventures of Odysseus might have been endlessly intriguing, even mesmerizing, and he may have engaged in battles and trials aplenty, but I do believe that those were the days before superduperdultraexpealidocious surround sound, but nevertheless something tells me that people will be reading and enjoying them for millenia to come. I would leave the making of special effects to the houses where they belong.

104. IDIC Lives! - July 2, 2014

Keachick “#98 says – “So you think you are being original here…well, guess what, you are not.”

Keachick continues to be adversarial toward me here and on other threads. I have tried to let it alone and let her alone and shall continue to do so.

But I do wish her supporter would explain to her that K. can give an opinion without insulting the other person first. It really can be done.

I said nothing in that quick comment I posted about it being original with me. Of course it was not.

105. IDIC Lives! - July 2, 2014

#99 Hat Rick

No problem. We do see eye to eye on a lot.

So often threads are really interesting and then the negative emotion arrives and we all go downhill from there. Goading is an ugly thing whoever does it. I am trying not to do it again but I am not a passive person, particularly where Trek is concerned, and goading begets goading unless one is extremely self controlled which makes this entire forum not enjoyable for anyone. What a STUPID syndrome.

106. IDIC Lives! - July 2, 2014

#99 Hat Rick

No problem. And we do see eye to eye on a lot. I made this statement but the post disappeared. maybe it will show up again.

107. IDIC Lives! - July 2, 2014

Yep, the post I referred to just showed up. Should’ve waited. Should’ve, would’ve, could’ve….

108. spooky - July 2, 2014

Well I think this sounds very promising.

That is what this production needed, a new pair of heads that know a little bit more about Trek and actually respect the universe it was borne out of.

So good luck fellas and please let’s try to keep the film classy, no lovers quarrels during a mission or silly teen angst.

and oh… please do have moments where the characters are actually in awe of their adventure and experiences, that is the point of Star Trek. The characters are too busy running around shooting ray guns and dodging bad guys. That’s fun but gets really tiring after awhile.

The production team can now do justice to Trek worlds but the film makers never take the time to really bring them to life, they are just background wall paper for action scenarios.

Oh, and one more thing. Don’t do something silly like putting the Enterprise in an ocean or sand dunes for shock/coolness factor.

Cheers! :D

109. Dr. Image - July 2, 2014

Those who malign Abrams’ film need to step back and put things in perspective. The whole TWOK “gold standard” thing is really giving it way too much credit. When it came out, it got a great response largely due to its comparison to TMP (which, despite its flaws, captuers the heart of Trek more than any other film, imo.) But the writing and performances in TWOK were far from great. Commercial, yes, but no more less so than JJ Trek. His films did the same thing as TWOK did back then- bring a watered-down version of “intellectual Trek” to the masses. After all, they MUST make money. Or it all stops and we get NO movies. (And a shout-out to ST Continues. Those guys “get it.”)

110. Keachick (Rose) - July 2, 2014

I guess I am still smarting over one or two comments made about me and towards me. One came from TUP who said that he had read many of my comments and then proceeded to tell me that I prefer “fight” and “explosions”…later he called me a simpleton…oh well…

I am not as my most patient best, I suppose

Anyway – back to my honest reality of the kinds of shows I do like and what I have noticed is quite a difference between many American television shows and British ones.

Even though there may be other quite worthwhile shows on other channels, I always end up watching the Murder Mystery shows which are British. Last Saturday, it was a Jonathan Creek 90 minute *episode* (2 hours with ads), next Saturday, it is a repeat of a 90 minute Midsommer Murders episode, which I will probably watch again.

Why I like these shows is that they are slightly slower paced, there is more dialogue and character development, less actual violence, fast car chases, gun fights etc (if any) and there is often not a lot of background music. The sounds are what one would naturally hear in such an environment, like the wind, bird song, normal traffic sounds, someone’s television on in the background etc. This makes for a relaxing time when you can actually take in what is happening with the characters.

These British shows are some of my favourites on television and always have been – Inspector Morse (with John Thaw now dec.), Taggart, Lovejoy, Midsommer Murders, Jonathan Creek, Agatha Christie iterations like Miss Marple and Hercule Poirot and more lately Call the Midwife and others. They all have one thing in common – a gentle pacing and background music (if there is any) which is non-intrusive. Unfortunately, re the background music, the same cannot be said for many US television or movies, whether they be crime/action dramas, comedies etc.

I just read a comment on another site where someone said they did not like Jack Ryan – Shadow Recruit, because it did not have enough action like fights and chases and because of that, was boring. Believe me, this movie has enough of both, but not to this person. Honestly, I did read this…sigh…where do I find a concrete block thick enough to bang my head on so it won’t hurt so much?

111. Keachick (Rose) - July 2, 2014

IDIC – You started it. See how it feels…

112. Keachick (Rose) - July 2, 2014

What supporter? You seem to have plenty of supporters – quite the little gang. You post comments like “Now where were we?…” accuse me of interrupting and encourage others to ignore me, ostracize me.You have hardly been particularly nice to me – anything but. I have little reason to be nice to you.

You say nothing that is original, yet you tell me that my vistas are limited. Really?
I guess I should take my leave before I really do say something that I might regret later.

113. Keachick (Rose) - July 2, 2014

It seems that this alt. Enterprise does not have to stay in orbit so there is no reason why it could not actually explore an ocean, like a water world, if it was feasible to do so. There is no need to limit the kind of exploration the Enterprise could physically do, take its crew.

Let the Enterprise where no ship has gone before…

114. Keachick (Rose) - July 2, 2014

Let the Enterprise go where no ship has gone before.

115. IDIC Lives! - July 2, 2014

This is insane. No, you started it. No, you started it. No, you started it.

Keachick, here is my perspective: Shortly before STID came out, I checked out this trek forum, I was excited for the new film. I have been a fan for about 40 years but was not actively on any Internet Trek ventures.

If I had time and they were available, I’d go back thru these threads, copy/paste, and show you the truth. I forget the moment it started between us but it was about as nu-Trek came out.

You wrote that perhaps Kirk should drop out of the 5 year mission for a time and become manager of a research station in order to raise David and be with Carol. This was your suggestion, I believe it was in your written script (a script you had written possibly to submit to Orci and company). Maybe I am not accurate on what you had in mind.

I then wrote my pov of Kirk which would not see him do this, I really did not think he would. I remember TUP during that time also spent many paragraphs logically explaining why he thought not, just as I said–not! We were both civil. I did not dream of being otherwise.

You then continued the debate (it should have been dropped there, agreed), but instead of simply debating it, you said things like “This is stupid nonsense!” and “If this is what you think, I feel sorry for you.”
(we were saying Kirk would go on the 5 year mission – basic Trek).

I FOOLISHY responded to the upgrade in emotion. If I had it to do again, I would be like TUP and disappear for a while but I was new to this forum and did not realize “the name of the nasty game.”

I fell for it. I admit to being passionate where Trek and Kirk are concerned.

So I answered you at about the same upgraded emotional level, I light-heatedly outlined what a soap opera with Kirk and Carol might be like (I thought that might get my pov thru to you) – because I did not and do not think Trek is about intricate personal relationships. It is science fiction (science and fiction).

Next I knew, I was–heck, I’ve forgotten the names you called me but “stupid and malevolent” have stuck with me. I am neither, as Uhura once said.

I admit that I dislike your approach on this forum. I am not alone.

I then chimed in a few times over the months (I had basically left it, out of sheer annoyance and dismay), and that made Marja angry at me too and I admit, I did myself no good.

She informed me (as you just did again on another thread wherein I had said nothing new, had ignored you) that I am not “IDIC.” That moniker was taken to honor Star Trek, not to announce my identity. I am not IDIC Lives, Star Trek IS.

But you are a constant lowest denominator in much of the trouble on this site. And I did not start it. And it is all a big shame.

I am willing to admit that we both started it, however, in my view of reality, I began by simply making comments as I did at the top of this thread. You arrived with your put-downs and personal insults, always in combat mode with the insults including “rabid dog,” “nasty tornado,” “re-tred, talifan and more. Oh yes, and “bitch.”

I have never called you any equivalent names and to the best of my recollection, I have called you no actual names at all.

Many have told me to ignore you, and I will, am trying.

I do not understand your general approach at all. But I did joined in and that was stupid of me.

Again, perhaps Marja can explain to you that you should not insult the commenter before offering debate or during offering debate.

For me, I understand the above paragraph, Marja, but I was not aware of the style of combat on this forum. I foolishly, even thoughtlessly, entered in, it was an honest reaction but not a wise one. Keachick was having her problems before I arrived as well.

As I say, if I had time and the posts still exists, I would go back and document how it built up between me ‘n’ Keachick.

I will not make that emotional, stupid mistake again but frankly, this whole thing is insane. A tempest in a teapot but a shame for Star Trek itself.

I apologize for my foolish but honest emotional reactions. Christ, I sound like Spock.

116. IDIC Lives! - July 2, 2014

I too cannot wait for “Interstellar!”

117. Pensive's Wetness - July 2, 2014

It seems to be that the ‘guiding light’ of JJ is a mearly just a pen light…

118. Ahmed - July 2, 2014

@Keachick (Rose)

Give it a rest, lady!

Take a moment & think why five individuals, Trekbilly, IDIC Lives!, Cygnus-X1, TUP & I decided to ignore your comments ?

Perhaps because you are so rude with everyone who disagree with you? Just read your own comments & the way you are addressing people around here. You’re annoying the hell out of everyone here with your condescending attitude.

No one is perfect around here, I do lose my temper sometimes, but we do get along at the end of the day.

Try to calm yourself & think before you make a comment.

119. TUP - July 2, 2014

wait wait…Keachick wrote a script intended for orci? hmmm…lol

120. IDIC Lives! - July 2, 2014

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/vivek-wadhwa/how-todays-technology-is-_b_5549042.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

Above is a great Star Trek-becomes-reality article.

Yes, I believe those were the plans she explained but I could remember wrongly. I do vividly remember the build-up of the big argument and how dumbfounded I was – and yet, I reacted.

But I didn’t come on the site thinking it was a Star Fleet test of my logical control, :-) I had come on the site simply to enjoy myself with other Trekkers. And then and then it all went wrong. :-)

121. TUP - July 2, 2014

Also, and im not sure if this was something mentioned on this thread or another (confused), I like Logical Leopard because LL always takes the time to respond thoughtfully and clearly. I dig that, even if I disagree with the content.

122. Red Dead Ryan - July 2, 2014

I see that Ahmed and his gang of fellow Talifans are up to their old tricks again, attempting to ram their anti-nuTrek propaganda down our throats.

These folks happen to be mad that Paramount is no longer making TNG films. The nuTrek movies have opened up Trek to the masses, disregarding the “fans-only” aspect of the prior movies by creating a new universe of exciting action and awesome spectacles wrapped around epic storylines and great characters minus the boring technobabble and arrogant preaching and lecturing of movies like “Insurrection” and “Nemesis”.

The Talifan militants (made up of Gene Roddenberry worshippers and Rick Berman ass-kissers) are doing their best to ensure Trek doesn’t evolve.
Unfortunately for the haters, while they are a vocal bunch, they are also a tiny minority whose archaic, backwards notions and opinions aren’t worth f@ck-all.

123. I am not Herbert - July 2, 2014

yeah, let Rose speak, but don’t engage: it’s pointless, if not frustrating… ;-)

yeah, this will be the trifecta-of-sucking in the name of so-called Trek… =(

…but it REALLY DOES reflect who we are as a society, and what we want…

As a Star Trek fan, I feel BETRAYED by nu-trek… nu-trek SUCKS! =(

124. I am not Herbert - July 2, 2014

nu-trek is for those who prefer, AND CHOOSE, to stay connected to the matrix

125. Ahmed - July 2, 2014

@122. RDR,

This is your first & only post on this thread & instead of making a comment on the actual content of the article like everyone else did in their first comments, you are up in arms fighting your holy war against the “Talifan”

And you keep doing that in every thread, you ignore the article & go on ranting against the “Talifan”. This is becoming boring pattern on your part.

Carry on, please!

126. Who cares - July 2, 2014

@123. Not as pointless as trying to engage you in conversation. At least Keachick doesn’t post links to every single nutjob conspiracy theory on the planet.

127. spooky - July 2, 2014

116. IDIC Lives! – July 2, 2014
“I too cannot wait for “Interstellar!”

I hope it is a good movie, it looks interesting enough.
It could potentially open the door to more though provoking sci-fi rather than the swashbuckling sci-fi that tends to disappoint at the end of the day.

Just to be clear… I don’t mind a good swashbuckling sci-fi adventure but it needs to feel awe-inspiring at the same time. If you don’t have that… then you’ve got nothing but kinetic energy that burns your senses as a viewer.

:)

128. Oscar - July 2, 2014

122. RED RYAN

You say nu trek opened up ST to the masses….yes, but making gijoe type films, not Dark knight o intellestellar type films. Films for easy movigoers, people who only want action, efx, and silly humor…films full of idiocies , cringe worthy dialogues and plotholes…

You can make intelligent movies and earn money, but Abrams and his team wanted a silly trek, maybe he think ST did not deserve better…
Their call, a choice , not a must be…

JJ Abrams can turn SW into Gijoe, if he wants, but I think he won’t…because he loves SW, but he despised ST, the original ST…
And now his heir is mr Copycat Orci…the general LEE of the rebels nu trek…,
Beh, General Lee surrender at APPOMATTOX,
The next film will be the Appomattox of this confederation nu trek. The Great Cause is dead. You can sing the nu trek version of dixie land, but you can not change this. Federation rules.

129. TUP - July 2, 2014

@Red Dead – totally off base. Im not a Berman fan. I think Gene held Trek back until his ouster in the early goings of TNG. I hated the latter two TNG films.

I enjoyed the two new movies. But they could have been soooo much more.

130. IDIC Lives! - July 2, 2014

@RedDead Way off base! I hardly know who Rick Berman is.

I worship no one but I think Gene Roddenberry was an exceptional man! I heard him speak “live” 3 times in school gymnasiums and what he said, his spirit, was awesome and inspiring.

It seems when you diminish Roddenberry, you diminish yourselves as Trek fans or Trekkers or even as future thinking humans. You don’t seem like very happy people to me.

131. IDIC Lives! - July 2, 2014

Never under-estimate the visionary power of TOS! It seems we might build a cloud city on Venus!

Dig you Trogladites, dig! (No, I am not addressing that to anyone specific).

http://www.citylab.com/tech/2014/07/the-surprisingly-strong-case-for-colonizing-venus/373560/

132. Oscar - July 2, 2014

Oh, Yes, I am a huge fan of Rick Berman…the best producer in the gold era of ST…600 episodes, 4 films, dozens of awards…hundreds and hundreds of novels and comics based upon his treks series…
Success and quality for years and years and years.
He opened up ST to intelligent masses.
Rick Berman is one of the most important names in ST History…
And he is a gentleman, he did not insult fans, he accepted critics…He loved ST..He was the perfect choice and Gene knew it…

Thank you for your work, Mr Berman. The true creator of the most important sci fi universe developed for tv .
The tng series (and Enterprise). Cult series.

133. IDIC Lives! - July 2, 2014

#132 Oscar, Although my daughter was in the first 2 TNG episodes (the pilot and the first episode), I continued to campaign for the return of TOS I just couldn’t get into TNG. Then before TNG ended, I had moved to Ireland and missed the other series too but might not have watched.

Maybe that’s strange and only hurting myself but I notice Shatner has said he did not watch TNG. Now he is narrating or moderating a reunion of them but for a time (speaking for myself, not speaking for him), I could not accept anything as Trek other than hoping beyond hope that the Original would get back onto the air or a movie would be made.

Shatner said also that he held a big party one Sunday because they were to start a brand new tv series of TOS the next Tuesday but it was cancelled or not-funded or funding withdrawn–on Monday. But then Star Trek: The Motion Picture did happen because the powers-that-be had decided to go larger than just returning the series.

I do know who Rick Berman is, but basically I suppose I was at a time in my life when his versions of Trek weren’t what I was into, so to speak.

134. LogicalLeopard - July 2, 2014

121. TUP – July 2, 2014
Also, and im not sure if this was something mentioned on this thread or another (confused), I like Logical Leopard because LL always takes the time to respond thoughtfully and clearly. I dig that, even if I disagree with the content.

*******************************

Thank you. I try to do that, and be as non-offensive as possible. That’s the point of these forums, to exchange ideas, even if we don’t agree.

135. Dandru - July 2, 2014

“Real Trekkies/Trekkers are in control of ST3″

Um… no. One of the writers isn’t even sure if he’s seen all of the original series.

136. Chris Sementilli - July 2, 2014

I’ll say this: I thought Into Darkness was a fun action movie, but it wasn’t Star Trek in tone. Plus it was just littered with WOK rip-offs. But the mainstream audience needs to like it. I get that. I think to keep it alive, they needed to modernize it, and make it “cool”. But okay, now that they’ve done 2 movies like that, they’ve got the audience. Now it’s time to slow things down, and do a well-paced story that asks questions about our species, and gets deeper. Not saying it has to move slow like TMP, but it doesn’t need to race by on the screen at breakneck speed either. I’d love another Voyage Home-style movie. Without the time travel. It doesn’t have to be crazy paced to be good. They can do it, and it can still be great. Look at a movie like Apollo 13. Great film. Not an action film by any means, but a great story, with a patriotic feel, and great characters and cast. And it was a great film. Plus James Horner’s score is one of my faves. But it can be like that. Nice paced, with some tense moments, but let the story FLOW, instead of rushing it through with explosions this time. The scene in Kirk’s apartment at the beginning of WOK is slow and somber, yet, Meyer put character tension between Kirk and McCoy with the aging plot. Which paid off great several times in the film later. THAT is what we need. Those moments when we get to fall in love with the characters.

137. IDIC Lives! - July 2, 2014

134 Logical Leopard,
Sorry, I will read your comments. It just seemed like you opposed every word I said and in long posts. I just seemed useless for me. Perhaps I misjudged but I know you misjudged me as well.

138. TrekMadeMeWonder - July 2, 2014

92. Disinvited

Nicely put!

BAM!

139. Keachick (Rose) - July 2, 2014

“You wrote that perhaps Kirk should drop out of the 5 year mission for a time and become manager of a research station in order to raise David and be with Carol. This was your suggestion, I believe it was in your written script (a script you had written possibly to submit to Orci and company). Maybe I am not accurate on what you had in mind.”

IDIC keeps misrepresenting what I actually wrote, just as she did at the time (9/10 months ago) when I first made the suggestion, among other ones that I made as well.

What she wrote above was NOT my suggestion.
She continues to fail to mention the all important word that I used when I made both suggestions – TEMPORARILY, which means that what I suggested is given a different slant, distorted, to the actual suggestions that I made. In both scenarios, I wrote that Kirk be TEMPORARILY reassigned to a planetary research station (1st suggestion) or newly space station (3rd suggestion). I never suggested that Kirk was not to be part of the five year mission – NOT EVER.

It seems that IDIC and others have no comprehension of the word “temporarily” or is it that they choose not to understand and do what they have become good at – ignoring what they don’t like, understand or is inconvenient, when it suits them, of course.

She conveniently fails to mention my other suggestions and also fails to mention that I, myself, concluded that my second and/or third suggestion were preferable. There was nothing that she or TUP wrote that made me reconsider my first suggestion. If I was influenced by anyone to reconsider my first suggestion as being a viable one, it was probably Marja…

I have not written an actual script. I have written a story outline, some of which I posted here for Bob Orci’s attention. None of these suggestions that I made 9/10 months ago were in my story outline.

“I then wrote my pov of Kirk which would not see him do this, I really did not think he would. I remember TUP during that time also spent many paragraphs logically explaining why he thought not, just as I said–not! We were both civil.”

I did not view many of those paragraphs written by TUP or herself as “logical” and the fact of their own civility is also debatable, especially that of IDIC’s.

“you said things like “This is stupid nonsense!” and “If this is what you think, I feel sorry for you.”
(we were saying Kirk would go on the 5 year mission – basic Trek).”
I was not debating with her whether Kirk would go on the five year mission. For me, the fact that he would go was a given. Once again, more distortions relating to the real issues raised in the debate at the time.

One issue being debated was about James Kirk and Carol Marcus having a child whilst on the five year mission and the other was about TEMPORARILY having Kirk take on a slightly different kind of administrative assignment and get an insight of what it is like, what it takes to run an isolated research station or a new space station near its completion. However, IDIC could not get past the notion of a baby being made and the idea incensed her in order to consider any other idea as to its feasibility…
In the space station scenario, I had the idea of it being attacked by ?, its commander being badly injured or killed, and Kirk reassigned to manage the station while the commander gained back her health or until a permanent replacement could be found. Carol may or may not have a baby and may or may not accompany Kirk to the station, but if she did, she would using her knowledge of weapons etc to ensure the safe installation and proper functioning. She would be working with engineer Scotty and his small team who would have also been TEMPORARILY assigned to the station.

These, above, were my actual suggestions – which is a far cry from what IDIC is presenting. The truth is that she was, what seemed to be, insanely angry over the merest suggestion (I was throwing them out, musing) that Kirk and Carol might have a child together, which did not make sense to me, then or now.

Unfortunately, IDIC is also proving herself to not be a particularly honest person.

“You arrived with your put-downs and personal insults, always in combat mode with the insults including “rabid dog,” “nasty tornado,” “re-tred, talifan and more. Oh yes, and “bitch.” ”

I did not arrive with anything of the kind. and, for the record I have NEVER described anyone as a “re-tred talifan”. I wrote a post in which I ask CygnusX1 to “Just stop…” and I did refer to many posters as seeming like rabid dogs, however I did not refer to anyone by name, except IDIC, after she went for me, as she has done any time she comes to this site…:(

140. Keachick (Rose) - July 2, 2014

Should read – “…a baby being made and the idea incensed her to the point where she seemed incapable of being able to consider any other idea as to its feasibility…”

141. TrekMadeMeWonder - July 2, 2014

135. Dandru

Are you sure?

As I understand it, a lot of TOS episodes had minutes cut for commercial use.

142. Cosmo - July 2, 2014

JJ is the “guiding light?”

Is that light a glowstick with a sparkler taped to it, shaken vigorously?

143. IDIC Lives! - July 2, 2014

From the post with “Into Darkness” and the “NO” (red line) across it, indicating it did not win any awards.

As TUP, Cygnus X1 and I were exchanging pleasant comments, Keachick exclaimed out of the blue,

“Too many rabid dogs with badly gnawed old bones in Tred *fandom*.
(this is a copy/paste)

Yes, you did use “Tred” (reTred, whatever). Your memory is not so good.

As well, you said several months ago that you had NO collection of the original incident (our argument) back when STID came out wherein you wanted Kirk to go to manage a research station but now you have your detailed version of it.

Bob Orci happened online too at that moment of your recent name-calling, not a good thing.

I take it that I am the worst of the worst, even worse than Amed, Cygnus X1, trekbilly, and TUP, however, I did not read all your details above so will not comment.

144. IDIC Lives! - July 2, 2014

Keachick, just now:

“… for the record I have NEVER described anyone as a “re-tred talifan”. I wrote a post in which I ask CygnusX1 to “Just stop…” and I did refer to many posters as seeming like rabid dog.”

Keachick on the “no awards for STID” post:

“Too many rabid dogs with badly gnawed old bones in Tred *fandom”

Not a class act. And not honest in reciting what she herself said.

Give it a rest, Keachick.

145. IDIC Lives! - July 2, 2014

Keachick, a hint:

People do not react well when you call them “rabid dog” or “bitch” or “imbecile” or you negate their rightful opinions a sweeping “nonsense.”

Do you think it a turn of bad luck that a number of people are asking you to give it a rest?

You need to be responsible for what you say. You deny, deny, deny that you ever say anything “bad.”

I took responsibility for my part, as I see it, earlier today. You ignored a chance to just drop it.

However, I am not reading your posts in earnest as I once did so, save your typing fingers and move on.

146. Keachick (Rose) - July 2, 2014

#142/143 – “I did not read all your details above so will not comment.”

Well, that is convenient, isn’t it?

“Tred” was a typo, a fairly obvious one, I would have thought, given the context. I meant to write “Trek”. I have NEVER referred to anyone as a “talifan”.

“As well, you said several months ago that you had NO collection of the original incident (our argument) back when STID came out wherein you wanted Kirk to go to manage a research station but now you have your detailed version of it. ”

That is not quite true either. I said I could not recall everything, however I did explain my suggestion(s) again, but in much less detail, than what I have done now, in the post above. I also remember that you continued, in your own slanted, distorted version of my own suggestions, to omit the key word I used in my original suggestions and that is the word TEMPORARILY, just as you have done now.

You failed to comprehend the meaning at the time, around about June/July last year 2013, or is it that you choose not to, because that would make both yours and TUP’s arguments at the time, rather moot? You continually omit the important word TEMPORARILY, just as you have done in the past. I also recall putting this word in upper case on posts in the past, which you obviously studiously, steadfastly ignored.

What has Bob Orci coming to this site got to do with anything? I am sure he can cope with reading this, if he wishes to, has the time…

On this/another thread, you go on about survival of the human race and yet you go apeshit at the merest suggestion that Kirk have a child with Carol (which is Star Trek canon, btw) in this timeline.

How is the human race supposed to survive and do well if young, healthy, bright individuals like Jim and Carol don’t procreate? You go on about human evolution, mental, spiritual etc, but that can only happen if people have babies. I do not mean everyone has to, but since it is part of Star Trek canon anyway, I saw no reason why Kirk having a child in this alternate universe could not happen as well, except that he gets to participate in the rearing of his child. If you want to talk about evolution etc, then it is illogical to dismiss the human relationships aspects, which, by definition, must and needs to include the romantic/sexual/procreative. That was my point then and it is still my point now.

Human evolution, which is what you wrote was also what Star Trek was about, is not just about development in technologies, science, how many stars in the universe get seen up close, what methods of propulsion is used, planets visited etc. There are actual people, flesh and blood humans (along with their needs and desires) engaging with these new technologies, discovering new places. TOS Kirk was always about reminding us of our essential humanity. It is you and those like you, who would deny important parts of our humanity and thereby truly limiting the “vistas”.

One poster referred to Uhura giving Spock a tiny affectionate kiss as “Uhura sucking face”. It is this kind of comment and attitude that drags us down to the “lowest common denominator”, along with some of your own more disparaging attitudes that you continue to exhibit on this site in a myriad of ways.

147. Keachick (Rose) - July 2, 2014

“You deny, deny, deny that you ever say anything “bad.””

Actually I did apologize to CygnusX1, in particular, for my “rabid dog” comment. I also made an apology to Matt Wright and to this site for making the “rabid dog” comment and the use of the term “bitch”. I posted this along with other comments, for Matt Wright’s attention, onto three threads here, but all have disappeared.

I have not called anyone an “imbecile”, however I have been called a simpleton and other demeaning terms by your friend, TUP. I find some of his posts simplistic and shallow and have said so. His reply was that I was a simpleton. I refer to the Gorn as being bores, so a poster responds to me with “Keachick, you are a bore…”

Maybe you should pay attention to what people are really writing, including how you come across to some.

148. IDIC Lives! - July 2, 2014

Yes, Keachick, it is convenient for me not to read your posts, and more importantly, it is the only way to remain on this site. What would you have me do, crawl back in my mother’s womb? Jump off a cliff? I exist. And I am staying on this site to enjoy giving my comments on Star Trek. Perhaps we can avoid each other.

149. IDIC Lives! - July 2, 2014

Keachick, incidentally, you owe me an apology on your several uses of “bitch” at me, more than you owe Matt Wright an apology.

150. Keachick (Rose) - July 2, 2014

#144 – “However, I am not reading your posts in earnest as I once did so, save your typing fingers and move on.”

Yes, I know. However, you ever read my posts “in earnest”. You would rather that I not comment at all, because you can’t understand or abide most of my viewpoints. I *bother* you, just as you *bother* me.

You also said something similar to LogicalLeopold as well…hmmm

151. IDIC Lives! - July 2, 2014

#136, I said this to Logical leopard, you missed it:

134 Logical Leopard,
Sorry, I will read your comments. It just seemed like you opposed every word I said and in long posts. I just seemed useless for me. Perhaps I misjudged but I know you misjudged me as well.

Keachick, By “in earnest” I mean, to actually read, not skim. I will read LL’s, I will skim yours, or less. I hope you will do the same to mine.

152. IDIC Lives! - July 2, 2014

Keachick, Let’s drop it. I’ll try to ignore you, you try to ignore me.

153. IDIC Lives! - July 2, 2014

Keachick, Truce? You ignore me, I ignore you. Worth a try?

The Organians are not here, alas, so tis up to us.

154. Disinvited - July 2, 2014

# 140. TrekMadeMeWonder – July 2, 2014

” As I understand it, a lot of TOS episodes had minutes cut for commercial use.” — TrekMadeMeWonder

You’re telling me; not only that, but they shaved off minutes again after restoring them for HD with the re-imagined FX when they resyndicated it — RANDOMLY! I mean with no rhyme or reason, or connection to the previous minutes that had been shaved in prior lowres syndication.

155. Keachick (Rose) - July 2, 2014

No, I do not owe you an apology. You have been a bitch to me. If anyone needs to give an apology, it is you. You may not swear, use *bad words*, but that does not mean that you have not been continually nasty towards me since last year (and another poster sometimes – boy – your comments to her have been so out of line).

You received the inappropriate label of “malevolent” because of how you were behaving towards me and another poster, in particular, at the time. I apologized for making that comment, however it is you who cannot let go. You proved that a few weeks ago when you flew in like a tornado and harassed me about my “oh so shocking” suggestion that Carol and Jim make babies and/or temporary reassignment, something I wrote, mused about, nine months earlier. This does come off as someone being negatively obsessed about an idea I mooted. Your antagonism towards me reared again with your nasty comments because I wrote that Cygnus should “Just stop…” If anyone interrupted, interjected, it was you, although that is a kind of nonsense in itself.

I actually noted that my comment to Cygnus was not that fair. This was in a discussion I had with Hat Rick on another thread.

I apologize to Matt Wright and to others here for the use of this swear word, but not to you. As I said, you have earned it.

‘”What would you have me do, crawl back in my mother’s womb? Jump off a cliff? I exist.”
That is so over the top. “Jump off a cliff? I exist” Come on, IDIC – just stop already. That is not nice. I have no wish to see you injure yourself or die. Not good that you would write that…very manipulative, for one thing, that because of what I might write, that you would threaten suicide.

What to do?
Lord, Have Mercy! (I mean this sincerely)

156. TrekMadeMeWonder - July 2, 2014

How is it that those in charge of Trek always seem to make serious mistakes with the basics in its presentation?

157. Hat Rick - July 2, 2014

Keachick, IDIC Lives!, I like you both. Keachick, please consider taking IDIC Lives!’s peace pipe. She is trying to call a truce and I wonder if you would kindly accept it?

It really does not matter to me who started what, and I would think that most people who read this board are not interested in who is right or wrong in your dispute. I know that you are very insistent that you are correct, and you could be. I haven’t followed the dispute much at all, because I don’t have a stake in it. I’m more interested in discussing Trek and related subjects.

An offer of peace is not an admission of weakness. It is a demonstration of strength. So, too, the acceptance of an offer of truce. Both of you have it in your power to make this a less conflictual place.

IDIC Lives!, I admire your offer of peace and, once again, Keachick — let’s call an end to this conflict. Can we not set a good example for posterity to follow? Let’s discuss Trek amicably, regardless of the past.

The future is we belong, my friends.

Thank you.

158. Oscar - July 2, 2014

Beh, in Star Trek Abrams was only a carpetbagger, and his little helper, Orci, a copycat.
IDIC,
I’m a huge fan of TOS, too. My favourite movie is… ST I. It is true! They say is….boring. I think is fascinating.

159. dmduncan - July 2, 2014

14. Harry Ballz – July 1, 2014

I can find nothing in these two guys’ history that indicates they are anything but what you call “paint-by-numbers.” I think that’s why they were chosen. The probably have a skill set that matches what the studio is trying to do, which is to make action movies that they think will make money.

And Bob is making the Star Trek that he wants to see. Whether that is the same Star Trek that you or I want to see is an open question.

The new versions of Kirk and Spock that we see in STiD are awful to me, though Spock seems to have attracted a vocal following of female fans.

It may be true that Bob’s Trek is making a new generation of fans, but I am skeptical that the sort of people this Trek is bringing in are also the type who will keep it alive for another 50 years.

If Bob’s vision of Star Trek is that Spock is the hero and Kirk is the punching bag, then I won’t buy his product more than once, and I’ll just patiently wait to see if the next rebooted version after Bob catches my interest.

I do find myself wishing for a straight-up, uncomplicated reboot of TOS where Kirk is once again the hero captain and Spock is NOT a ladies man with anger management issues.

STiD did not improve on the original recipe.

It was like a huge fan of fried okra insisting that everybody at his party eat fried okra.

160. I am not Herbert - July 2, 2014

TMP is my favorite also =) it is not “boring”, unless u don’t care… ;-)

161. Marja - July 2, 2014

159 duncan, … though Spock seems to have attracted a vocal following of female fans.

Where’ve you been, dm? Spock has ALWAYS had a vocal following of female fans. Nimoy got lots more fan mail than Shatner back in the ol’ days!

162. Hat Rick - July 2, 2014

@dmduncan, 159,

Young minds, fresh ideas, to quote STIII:TSFS.

I’m of the generation to whom TOS was my introduction to visual SF. I’d always been a big science fiction fan, but to see it on television, in living color, was always a treat.

I’m about two generations behind the upcoming generation. Perhaps you are too; I don’t know for sure.

All I know is that all things must grow in order to survive. ST needs to grow.

I can agree with those who want a ST that conforms specifically to TOS. I see classic tropes, classic themes, classic character development in TOS. There’s much to be said for reproducing TOS faithfully, as in Star Trek Continues, only in modern dress.

Thus, I agree with you that there should be a continuation of the template we saw and continue to see in TOS. But….

I want to point out another longstanding franchise — the Bond franchise. It’s gone through many years of change, and many Bonds. None of the Bonds are quite like the others. Connery is supposedly the best Bond, but would he be a cinema star today? His attitudes would appeal to those who admire “Mad Men,” but that’s about it. Connery’s Bond is no longer viable.

Thus, today, we have a completely different interpretation of Bond; this one sheds metaphorical tears over someone whom he considered a soul mate — a woman, not a “Bond Girl.” And Bond continues to prosper.

I sometimes think that for a fanbase that so loves the future, we are somewhat reluctant to embrace the present. So many of us throw missiles at what we see today and highlight only the negative, without seeing how this makes us far less than what we could be: Progressive thinkers who ask not why, but why not.

We are becoming like some of our fathers or mothers, clinging to the past because of eternal verities, rather than embracing the interpretation of those verities in the light of what’s current, what’s new, and what’s possible.

I do not deny that there are problems with conceiving of moves as mere roller coaster rides, devoid of meaning. I do want to be open-minded and give fresh approaches a chance.

The easiest way to retain the worst of the present is to dismiss the possibilities of the future. As fans of Trek, why in the universe would we want to do that?

163. Tom - July 2, 2014

96 French Trekkie

I really hope the include Shatner and Nimoy. Someone said Nimoy is retired but I think given the 50th Anniversary he would consider it. He has done favors for them in the past ( fringe). There have been many proposed ways to include Shatner. I think Bob and team could come up with one. Glad that they are at least considering it or putting eveything on the table so to speak. If they do get Shatner I hope they film the scene they had written for him for 09 and just throw it in the extras in addition to his scenes for the movie. It was so well written and would have enhanced the ending of that movie. So lets see it Bob!
Love reading the dialogue from Bob and others debating MWI and Quantum Mechanics. Sometimes it gets too deep for my liking but it seems it opens up many possibilities to put a little bow on the movie for the anniversary.

On another subject , Is Bob still involved in Spiderman 3 and the Mummy?

164. Marja - July 2, 2014

110 Keachick,Yes! to British murder mysteries! Though I’m not so fond of the Agatha Christies. I also like the Australian Phryne Fisher mysteries and there was a terrific 6-part mystery filmed in NZ called “Top of the Lake” … if you haven’t seen it, do.
————————————————————————————————
127 Spooky kinetic energy that burns your senses as a viewer.

Reminds me of a “Film School Rejects” commentary about Marvel movies

http://filmschoolrejects.com/visual-guide-marvel-movies-looking-the-same?utm_source=zergnet.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_163143

165. Marja - July 2, 2014

136 Chris Sentimelli But it can be like that. Nice paced, with some tense moments, but let the story FLOW, instead of rushing it through with explosions this time. The scene in Kirk’s apartment at the beginning of WOK is slow and somber, yet, Meyer put character tension between Kirk and McCoy with the aging plot. Which paid off great several times in the film later. THAT is what we need. Those moments when we get to fall in love with the characters.

I love the Alt’verse characters, and would very much like to see more writing such as this — and more scenes like this. Not little one- and two-minute “bits” — but conversations, tensions, contention, resolutions. McCoy versus Spock versus Kirk versus Uhura, debate with a spirit of passion but also collegiality and friendship. A conference scene would be nice. I promise, JJ, it will not kill the audience. It will not.

I would also like it if the movie shows a lot less violence and has fewer amped-up action scenes.

Oh yeah and science. Lots of the scary or hopeful science we saw in Trek days of yore.

Not so likely in a Summer Blughbuster, but [sigh].

166. Jonboc - July 2, 2014

#132 “Oh, Yes, I am a huge fan of Rick Berman…”

Ahhaaa…now it’s clear why you don’t like Star Trek!! lol

167. Red Dead Ryan - July 2, 2014

Well, you anti-nuTrek haters can stay home and skip the next film when it comes out, while the rest of us go and have a good time.

Of course, it won’t stop you guys from hating the movie anyways, but at least you can show us the courtesy of letting us watch the show in peace!

And yes, Ahmed, my post is relevent to this thread. Because all I’m seeing is bitching and crying from you and your merriless band of Talifans.

You keep rehashing the same crap over and over, not sure why you guys have to subject the true fans to your self-aggrandizing, negative postings.

This is TrekMovie.Com, not TrekMovieHaters.Com. Maybe you ought to go somewhwere else.

168. dmduncan - July 2, 2014

162. Hat Rick – July 2, 2014

Young minds, fresh ideas, to quote STIII:TSFS.

***

I wish. But: 1. What we know is that they reboot or adapt existing stories, and 2. If I truly want fresh ideas when I go to a Star Trek movie, why would I be going to a Star Trek movie?

Oh I love fresh ideas, but let’s not kid ourselves. The Star Trek idea hasn’t been fresh for 50 years. I go to a Star Trek movie precisely because the ideas are NOT fresh, or, rather, because I want to see a great OLD idea done better than it ever could have been done before.

STiD is a step in a new and forgettable direction. Not an improvement, and if these guys turn out more of the same, it will be equally forgettable, however fast paced, watchable, and profitable it is.

I doubt this new Star Trek is producing the same kind of loyal fanbase that kept it alive for the first 50 years. I think it’s attracting “fans” who will forget all about it once it stops being fast-paced, exciting, blockbuster material, and who don’t really care about the subtleties I found so attractive about the first film.

The only “new” fans that ever seem to comment on this site about the new Star Trek seem to be females fixated on the Spuhura romance, which isn’t going to sustain the franchise.

169. Marja - July 2, 2014

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jO1EOhGkY0

just another day at TrekMovie

170. Cygnus-X1 - July 3, 2014

Some points in this article that I haven’t seen anyone talk about here, and quite a few that many people have mentioned:

http://whatculture.com/film/star-trek-3-10-reasons-why-we-already-know-it-will-suck.php

“The rumours are that Star Trek 3 will focus on the war with the Klingons. They made a few references to it in Into Darkness and introduced the Klingons as a mask wearing, jewellery loving, aggressive species. But if they do plan on making the Klingons the central antagonists in the next movie, it makes you wonder why they made them look like such losers in Into Darkness.”

“Paramount conducted focus groups across the globe to see what they wanted from a Nu-Star Trek movie and the results were less Trek and more action. They took that data and constructed a film to fit the results. You have to ask, is that good film making?”

171. Jemini - July 3, 2014

168. dmduncan

——-

I see TOS fans complaining about the lack of fanworks about TOS all the time. As for the spock/uhura fans being ‘new’ and only girls… do you follow the fandom a bit outside of this site? I love their relationship and I already was a fan of TOS and I know it’s the same for other people too ( my boyfriend liked them too way before me) there’re many guys that like the romance just fine (dead boards like trekbbs)
a lot of Uhura AND Spock fans like it, especially the latter who are not part of the category ‘I like Spock only as the nerdy friend of hero but I don’t want him to get a life outside of Kirk who is the character I actually care about’ that some people in this site are part of. I remember very well a discussion where ‘truecolors’ about how much some of you care about Spock as an individual were showed. Some of you were complaining that he apparently gets all the best storyline, and it was not ‘fair’ because the star must be Kirk and Spock is secondary and Kirk also should get the ‘girl’ instead of Spock who is not allowed to have a life outside of the friendship. I wasn’t surprised to see how disingenuos some ‘Spock fans’ who complain about the reboot can be, I prefer that honesty than those who pretend to care about his character and the best for him when really they’re just bitter b/c Spock is perceived as a threat to what they truly care about. It’s the same who complain he’s OOC when he expresses emotion for his girlfriend (or his mommy) but then say nothing about him crying or acting homicidal for someone he had tried to kill a movie ago. Weak arguments rooted in hypocrisy I read in this fandom all the time.
It’s not a wonder that the fanboys who like ‘spuhura’ (including some of the other trek writers e.g., novels etc) are in large part those who have Spock as their favorite (not Kirk, or at least they TRULY like them both ) and thus are happy about him having ‘more’, the same way Uhura fans are.

172. Jay Ley (UK Trekkie) - July 3, 2014

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again…

As this is the 50th Anniversary of Trek, this movie is the perfect opportunity to bring in some Special Guest appearances from across the 50 years of the show. It sounds cheesy when you say it like that, and it sounds like I’m just being a fanboy, wanting to cling on to old trek…

WRONG

If done right, this movie can be the perfect 50th Anniversary present, whilst also making it relevant to the general public.

The truth is, the majority of fans aren’t exactly thrilled by the new JJ-Verse movies. I think Trek can take a lot from the most recent X-men movie…

The new X-Men movie (I havent seen it yet) tries to merge the old X-Men movies with the new cast, and from most accounts it looks like they succeeded. Why doesn’t Trek look at doing this? The general public know that Shatner is Kirk, and that Stewart is Picard, and they are both Star Trek characters…

My story for the 50th Anniversary would be set in both the Prime timeline and the JJ-Verse. For some reason, the Prime timeline is under threat due to the changes in the timeline and Spock Prime is needed to ensure that the balance is brought back, and that the JJ Verse timeline is repaired and ultimately destroyed. Kirk Prime and Ambassador Picard (being Spock’s close friends) are sent through a singularity to collect Spock Prime and bring him back to the Prime Timeline…

This could cause some interesting sub plots with a) the JJ Verse Borg Queen seeing an opportunity to strike and thus becoming the antagonist b) Prime Spock not wanting to leave immediately due to his commitments c) Kirk’s alive??!! Yes, due to some time related problem the Shat lives (excuse to bring him back, doesn’t necessarily have to be explained – its f**kin Star Trek) d) JJ Verse crew coming to terms with their impending doom, but working with Picard & Kirk to end the timeline…

You could also have some Cameo’s from Janeway (Admiral trying to stop Picard, but is ultimately swayed as “to hell with the temporal prime directive”) Admiral Archer acting as the new “Pike” figure for Pine, he could also talk about temporal shizzle…

It could be pretty awesome…

173. Jemini - July 3, 2014

*Dead= read!
I hate writing from the tablet the auto correct thingy is annoying

174. Oscar - July 3, 2014

172.
The new X Men movie is a very good film directed by a true fan of ST.

Yes, good director and true fan, he should shoot ST 2016, but he is a blacklisted man…Paramount guys and their phobias…

Summer readings

Star Trek the next generation, the light fantastic, by Jeff Lang
Starring: Data.2 . Lal.2 and Moriarty.
The main events take place in november 2385.

Not Trek
The smoke at dawn, a novel of the civil war.
(The campaign around Chattanooga in the fall of 1863)
Author: Jeff Shaara.

175. IDIC Lives! - July 3, 2014

#157 Hat Rick, wise words. I don’t know what else to do, will try to ignore.

Just a note: I was being light hearted or funny or even mildly sarcastic with myself as the “victim” to say, “What should I do, crawl back in my mother’s womb or jump off a cliff?”

By all the stars in heaven, I was not threatening suicide if Keachick–whatever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don’t send the paramedics! Perhaps she really doesn’t get humor or parody? That might explain some aspects of this debacle because I use both a lot. I could put more happy faces to indicate humor than I do, but I think it is obvious (as the “mother’s womb statement above because that’s a hell of a way to try suicide), but maybe Keachick doesn’t grok that? She takes it all literally.

I am not being cruel, maybe this really is the key to why I rub her more wrong, even, than others do. because I am frankly mystified by this.

I admit, I have not been kind at times but—neither have other people after she name-calls our rightful opinions. For instance, I have never called her a simpleton but still she hates me more.

So, no truce. I’ll just try my hardest to ignore. But she keeps at me more than those of you who are ignoring, so it is difficult. I am more Kirk than Spock, hard to not react. Am and will TRY.

176. IDIC Lives! - July 3, 2014

Once again, let me say, I was not threatening suicide. I don’t think taking this seriously is a small thing, I want it to be clear that I was being (or trying to be), light hearted and funny.

I said: ‘”What would you have me do, crawl back in my mother’s womb? Jump off a cliff? I exist.”

Keachick said, “That is so over the top. “Jump off a cliff? I exist” Come on, IDIC – just stop already. That is not nice. I have no wish to see you injure yourself or die. Not good that you would write that…very manipulative, for one thing, that because of what I might write, that you would threaten suicide.”

As well as my mother and her womb being dead, there are no cliffs in this part of Iowa. Sorry, I’m doing it again (being funny or trying to be). Isn’t that OBVIOUS??

Keachick, let me assure you, I was/am not serious, ok??!!!!!

177. IDIC Lives! - July 3, 2014

May I just say, I am in a Jack Benny/William Shatner palm-to-face-in–quiet-dismay—-pose.

178. Disinvited - July 3, 2014

#170. Cygnus-X1 – July 3, 2014

Thanks. Interesting read. Especially their comment section which has contributions from last year right up to the end of last month. Fascinating that their commentors universally praise or condemn JJ for BR’s Trek films as opposed to here where Orci gets it.

179. Disinvited - July 3, 2014

#177. IDIC Lives! – July 3, 2014

Well!

180. Oscar - July 3, 2014

167. Red Ryan
Ok. I see, you want a nu trek dictatorship. Nu trekkers are entitled to their opinion, infidels must shut up…
Gloria, gloria, aleluyah.
Beh, see you next year at Appomattox, rebel.

181. IDIC Lives! - July 3, 2014

#179 Disinvited

Well!! Indeed.

182. Disinvited - July 3, 2014

#181. IDIC Lives! – July 3, 2014

LOL. Give my regards to Mary and Rochester.

183. IDIC Lives! - July 3, 2014

#182 Disinvited

Yazzzah!

184. star trackie - July 3, 2014

#170 ““Paramount conducted focus groups across the globe to see what they wanted from a Nu-Star Trek movie and the results were less Trek and more action. They took that data and constructed a film to fit the results. You have to ask, is that good film making?””

I don’t see the problem. They gave the world what they wanted. They gave me what I wanted. They made lots of money guaranteeing MORE of what I want. They just didn’t give you what you want. Deal with it and move on.

185. TUP - July 3, 2014

There is this sense that the film makers had to make an action-heavy, dumbed-down, less-Trek’ed movie to attract “mainstream” movie goers. If I ever see/hear one of the film makers say this I will truly know they are incompetent.

Ofcourse you can make a film that gives fans what they want while providing enough action to entertain the masses with their short attention-spans. As good as STID did at the box office, its considered to have fallen short of expectations. Two reasons: 1) poor word of mouth 2) I really think the lack of original cast member. I think Nimoy was a huge draw in the first one.

Also, lets not argue with idiots on this forum. They did a fine job of making themselves look foolish without our help. Ignore completely and they will eventually go away when no one is reading their nonsense.

186. Clinton - July 3, 2014

This is always the point where the next movie seems so clouded and far away. It’s when we wish we had a lot more information — even though there isn’t that much information to have. I’m going to chillax for now. :-)

187. Cygnus-X1 - July 3, 2014

186. Clinton – July 3, 2014

Just wait til the rumor mill gets into full gear.

Then try telling people to chillax when Vin Diesel is floated as the villain in the new movie. ;-)

188. Cygnus-X1 - July 3, 2014

178. Disinvited – July 3, 2014

Fascinating that their commentors universally praise or condemn JJ for BR’s Trek films as opposed to here where Orci gets it.

It is. Nobody really knows what goes on in the production unless somebody in it tells us. I’ve always assumed that Orci & Kurtzman were more responsible for the writing and JJ was more responsible for everything else. And since most of the problems with those movies are in the writing, I don’t mention JJ much. My main criticism relating to JJ has always been in line with what the media professor in this article says here:

“I find it interesting that J.J. Abrams is moving on to the Star Wars franchise, because that is clearly what he has a personal passion for. He’s been very open in interviews that he was never a Star Trek fan, and he basically reinvented Star Trek with much more of the visual and action and emotional structure of the Star Wars films.”

http://www.vulture.com/2013/05/star-trek-hate-jj-abrams-into-darkness.html

In fact, most of my complaints about ST09 are represented in that article as well (though, the professor mistakenly refers to Red Matter as a McGuffin, when he seems to mean deus ex machina). I don’t agree with everything that he says, particularly with regard to STID, but his opinion did remind me in places of what you’ve expressed about STID feeling more like Trek than ST09 did.

The “Star Wars” bit is spot on, though. JJ got offered Trek. He wasn’t a fan. Didn’t “get” it. But saw it as his entree into films. And took the Trek job for that purpose. I think that JJ’s initial decline of the offer to direct Disney’s Star Wars was Kibuki. He figured he’d get blowback from Trek fans for ditching them for his true love (and he was right), so he went through the typical politician’s motions of being recruited into the job by George Lucas. Well, if George Lucas thinks he should do it, who is JJ to say no? Like JJ would really turn down Star Wars. Direct the sequel to my favorite childhood movie franchise? Nah, I’ll still with the franchise that I don’t get and never really liked growing up. And I have a nice bridge to sell you if you believe that. Nice and shiny, and all yours for a very fair price.

189. Disinvited - July 3, 2014

#184. star trackie – July 3, 2014

The road to tomorrow is not paved with focus groups. You honestly think Cameron came up with the idea of taking cinema 3D to the next level because studio focus groups told him that’s what they wanted? Even better, you think Thomas Alva Edison invented motion pictures because focus groups told him to?

It is the purview of art to upset the status quo not maintain it.

190. IDIC Lives! - July 3, 2014

#189 Disinvited

You make a good point here. How about Nikola Tesla who stayed more outside the status quo than Edison, even, and Edison based some of his discoveries on Tesla’s work which was “for the people,” but, of course–Tesla died broke. I sure hope that doesn’t happen to Star Trek.

The Original gave us such an incredible template of true quality and intelligence for NEW adventures of us out in the galaxy. Us!!

We should hold onto this high standard with all our might. To quote Commander Peter Quincy Taggart of Galaxy Quest, “Never give up, never surrender!”

191. Who cares - July 3, 2014

@Cygnus. Kathleen Kennedy got JJ to take the Star Wars job not Lucas. Lucas is only a creative consultant on the Star Wars franchise now, he does not make hiring/firing decisions for the franchise nor for Lucasfilm itself anymore as the entire company is no longer his property, seening as how it has been sold to Disney and all.

192. Red Dead Ryan - July 3, 2014

It’s a trade-off: If you want Star Trek to grow around the world, you have to ditch the geeky, tech-obsessive, moral lecturing aspect some of the latter Treks in favor of fast-paced, epic, good-character-filled stories that are easily accessible to the common person and not just the hardcore fan.

The BR movies have done that. Now, there are clearly a bunch of malcontents who aren’t getting it, but, fortunately, they are a rather small and insignificant bunch who have their speedos in a twist simply because Paramount is no longer making movies strictly for them. The studio ain’t listening to them anymore, and it’s a good thing.

193. Who cares - July 3, 2014

@Matt Wright.

This person Oscar has several times now made comments equating fans of ST09 and STID, as well as Bob Orci, with Confederate soldiers. This is incredibly offensive, and should not be allowable behavior on this or any other site.

194. TUP - July 3, 2014

@ Red Dead Ryan – Not true at all. Why do you have to ditch all that made Star Trek great in order to make a movie that appeals to the masses?

Orci deserves as much blame for the writing but JJ deserves blame for the over-all vision of the film. The odd Apple-inspired bridge being a glaring one. The decision that the Enterprise just had to be miles larger than the original for no reason (other than, I guess, wanting to portray it as the equivilent of an American aircraft carrier).

195. Disinvited - July 3, 2014

#188. Cygnus-X1 – July 3, 2014

Wow. Thanks. Excellent. That academic also definitely fingered a lot of other amorphous feelings I had about STID but didn’t feel particularly compelled to nail down. He definitely understands what I’ve been trying to communicate about my experience with it.

And I remind you: Bob told me in these very chains long ago that he understood what I fingered as missing in the 2009 effort and that he’d get it in the sequel (I think his words were something along the lines of “Just watch me.” in response to my expressing doubts.) This is why I give him personal credit in this.

And that is why I’m cautiously optimistic that “something wonderful” for Trek might result from his gaining the reigns. Especially given the way Paramount has decided to handle things.

In re:JJ

I remind you that he is a card caring writer, and in everything he’s directed as an uncredited scribe that I’ve seen, I detect his “writing” stamp upon it. It’s just not worth the guild politics to go after the credit for him.

196. Disinvited - July 3, 2014

#195. Disinvited – July 3, 2014

“caring” should be “carrying”

197. Ahmed - July 3, 2014

@185. TUP

“Also, lets not argue with idiots on this forum. They did a fine job of making themselves look foolish without our help. Ignore completely and they will eventually go away when no one is reading their nonsense.”

Agreed. People like RDR come here only to attack anyone who disagree with his view. I’d understand it if he was expressing his support for the movies without engaging in personal attack against others, but all he really does is attack like he is fighting in a holy war or something. Guess that why he is so obsessed with the Taliban.

It is better to ignore people like him completely.

198. Ahmed - July 3, 2014

@ 193. Who cares – July 3, 2014

“This person Oscar has several times now made comments equating fans of ST09 and STID, as well as Bob Orci, with Confederate soldiers. This is incredibly offensive, and should not be allowable behavior on this or any other site.”

Well, you should take a look at RDR comments where is equating anyone who disagree with his view to the Taliban.

But I agree, there is no need for Oscar & RDR to engage in such manners.

199. Oscar - July 3, 2014

Oh, c’mon , it’ s a joke, amigos. I’m a huge fan of the civil war history. My comments equating nu trek fans with confederates should not be offensives. They were gentlemen and patriots. General Lee was the best general and one of the most loved generals in the american history. However, their patriotism was wrong. Very wrong. And the outcome, a tragedy. Ok, it is enough. No more civil war…
And no more talifans, I hope.

200. Who cares - July 3, 2014

@Oscar. I am a Native American, I do not respect or admire anyone from the 1800s and I never will. That is an era where things like the Sand Creek Massacre took place, where soldiers attacked a native camp that was unarmed and flying a US flag, or Wounded Knee, or any number of other atrocities comitted by both North and South.

I only compare people to those from that era when I am trying to be as insulting as possible, never for jokes, because there is nothing funny about it.

201. Disinvited - July 3, 2014

#200. Who cares – July 3, 2014

“@Oscar. I am a Native American, I do not respect or admire anyone from the 1800s” — Who cares

Anyone? Because, for the life of me, I can’t imagine your beef with Emperor Qing of China or your ancestors from that era for that matter.

I guess I’ll have to reread my copy of THE DEFIANT AGENTS to try and discern how a whole century of people the planet over offended future native Americans

202. star trackie - July 3, 2014

#189 “It is the purview of art to upset the status quo not maintain it.”

I guess the real problem here, then, is the fact that some people have, in their own minds, elevated Star Trek to some form of “high art”. Lofty ideas and lofty dreams, when in reality, at the end of the day, it really is just a TV show. Granted, it’s one that has had an amazing afterlife, but still, it’s just another form of entertainment. A business. It needs to make money to survive. If the business fails to bring in profits, the business closes. See Nemesis and Enterprise.
Now, having said that, there is good TV and bad TV. It’s all creativity by committee and some is really, really bad. Some is really good and most is mediocre. But despite what fans dream of, despite what has been said at conventions, in fanzines, in interviews, when all the dust settles, It’s not about lofty ideas and changing the world, it is about numbers. Always will be.

203. IDIC Lives! - July 3, 2014

I lived in Ireland for 5 years and at a party, a man who knew I am an American came up and said abusively, “So how’s about what you did to the Indians?”

I stuttered around, “Well, I wasn’t alive when the Native Americans were slaughtered or run off their lands, but I have contributed to AIM and have written on behalf of Leonard Peltier for his release. (All true).

This guy said, “Huh?” and walked away.

He had never heard of AIM or Peltier but you would’ve thought I just got off my pony at the Battle of the Little Big Horn because to him, I was a white American. Period. End of debate.

204. Keachick (Rose) - July 3, 2014

IDIC Lives! Sorry for my late entry – I had written a comment re your call for truce and Hat Rick for us to make up and be nice. Unfortunately, I thought I did click “Say i!” but it seems not, when I come here now. My original comment has been lost in the ether.

I think I can say that there is one thing, at least, that we do have in common – that is our passion and love for Star Trek and what it has meant for us as individuals. It is also that we come from different perspectives and backgrounds and I think it is an obvious given that we are not going to eye to eye on aspects.

I have no wish to ignore you. I try not to do it to anyone because I know what it is like to be *ignored and ostracized (as a child and later on)*. However, I will endeavour to *ignore*, as in not respond if there is a chance that misunderstandings may occur.

I did not know if you were serious or not about “jumping off cliff” comment. Unfortunately, some people do threaten such things and a smaller minority even go through with it. This is why I also wrote “What to do? Lord, Have Mercy!” as in appealing for help for you, for us, to a higher power, wise and compassionate.

IDIC Lives! – You take care.

* does not require comment from any poster reading this comment…

205. IDIC Lives! - July 3, 2014

Keachick, If you knew me, you would know what I survivor I am and you need not have worried at my attempt at a humorous comment.

In the same way, if I knew you, I suspect I would find a survivor as well, perhaps in a different way, but still, a survivor.

It is all too easy to get a false image of someone for whatever reason, perhaps echos of our own minds/experiences in life, or perhaps the other person’s fault, probably a combination of both.

Commenting on this site should be fun and that is how I consider it.

Glad we have a truce.

206. Keachick (Rose) - July 3, 2014

Please IDIC – stop misreading what I have written. I think herein lies the problem. I did not say that you called me a simpleton, because you have not. I wrote that TUP called me a simpleton, which he did.

207. Oscar - July 3, 2014

200.
Beh, oh, yes, wounded knee…we can speak about comanches and violence, too. Maybe you should read Empire of the summer moon, Quanah Parker and the rise and fall of the Comanche tribe, S. C. Gwynne…and not only Bury my heart at wounded knee…a very, very cruel people, comanches, they destroyed a bunch of indians nations to take their lands and horses…before spaniards, mexicans, texans or americans…Comanches hated apaches, for instance…and they killed them.

208. Ahmed - July 3, 2014

@ 167. Red Dead Ryan – July 2, 2014

Last transmission!

“This is TrekMovie.Com, not TrekMovieHaters.Com. Maybe you ought to go somewhwere else.”

Nope but you are more than welcome to go to trekbbs, a forum for STID worshipers like you.

CASE CLOSED!

209. Keachick (Rose) - July 3, 2014

Ahmed and Red Dead Ryan’s comments are not what are needed here. People are not “talifans” and nor are they “STID worshippers”. Both comments lack truthfulness and come off as offensive to anyone who is genuinely trying to understand these new movies and the various opinions made about them, as well as what the premise of Star Trek and its various iterations have been about, is about now and could be about.

There is a place for someone to say, Just Stop…please and this is it.

210. Hat Rick - July 3, 2014

Let’s cekebrate the truce, friends, and be done with it. Thank you, Keachick, for 204.

Keachick, IDIC Lives!, let us all move on as of 204 and 205.

Onward and upward.

211. Keachick (Rose) - July 3, 2014

Normally I make sure/check that what I write is actually posted, does go through, but I was in a hurry, because of this –

http://www.eventfinder.co.nz/2014/asb-stage-challenge-and-rock/auckland

My daughter’s school entered the challenge and she was one of the dancers. Her (school’s) performance took place last night, 3 July (NZ time)…clearly not a performance to be missed. She is quite the little dancer!

212. Disinvited - July 3, 2014

Timothy McVeigh, recognized as a terrorist in our millennial times, was a big fan of STAR TREK:THE NEXT GENERATION.

213. IDIC Lives! - July 3, 2014

#206, Keachick, I did not misread. I said you seemed to dislike me more that the commenters who have called you a simpleton. I never did call you nouns – names. I used adjectives. But I am not defending this. Just saying, I actually did not misread. I was sincerely mystified as to why you hated me more than those who have called you actual nouns (names).

Let’s relax and be done with it. The truce reigns!

I was a ballet and gymnastics little girl – quite good at both like your daughter – and tell your daughter she’s in a good activity not only for artistic reasons but for reasons of good health as she grows up. I found it always helped me and probably still does–to be in good health. The muscles and physical balance I developed even made child birth easier when the time came.

214. Ahmed - July 3, 2014

She who must not be named is lecturing us about offensive comments !!!

215. Ahmed - July 3, 2014

@ 212. Disinvited – July 3, 2014

“Timothy McVeigh, recognized as a terrorist in our millennial times, was a big fan of STAR TREK:THE NEXT GENERATION.”

The Fuhrer was a fan of Charlie Chaplin!

216. Cygnus-X1 - July 3, 2014

191. Who cares – July 3, 2014

@Cygnus. Kathleen Kennedy got JJ to take the Star Wars job not Lucas. Lucas is only a creative consultant on the Star Wars franchise now, he does not make hiring/firing decisions for the franchise nor for Lucasfilm itself anymore as the entire company is no longer his property, seening as how it has been sold to Disney and all.

Right, right…I thought it was either Spielberg or Lucas giving sort of mentoring advice, and I remember reading that Abrams had been going to Lucas for advice…But Kathleen Kennedy is related to them both—former Spielberg partner, current brand manager of Lucas’s former property. Anyway, yeah.

217. Ahmed - July 3, 2014

@ 191. Who cares & 216. Cygnus-X1

Who cares is correct, here is the full story from THR:

===================================
Lucasfilm’s Kathleen Kennedy on ‘Star Wars,’ ‘Lincoln’ and Secret J.J. Abrams Meetings (Exclusive)

In November, a journalist asked J.J. Abrams what seemed like an obvious question: Was he interested in directing the next Star Wars movie? Disney had just paid a whopping $4.05 billion to acquire George Lucas’ iconic Lucasfilm and had stated its intention to turn out new Star Wars films every two to three years beginning in 2015.

The prolific Abrams, who had sparked the flagging Star Trek series in 2009, seemed a natural fit. But he quickly shot the idea down. While Star Wars was “the first movie that blew my mind in that way,” he said then, he wanted to focus on original material.

Kathleen Kennedy, the 59-year-old producer who in June had been placed atop the Lucas empire, was not so easily deterred.[...] Kennedy already had called Beth Swofford, Abrams’ CAA agent, and been told Abrams was too deeply engaged in the next Star Trek movie and other obligations at Paramount — not to mention innumerable television projects — to consider the job.

Nonetheless, Abrams agreed to meet with Kennedy on Dec. 14 at his Bad Robot offices in Santa Monica. Famously plain-spoken, she summarizes her pitch like this: “Please do Star Wars.” And she had cards to play. Not only was Oscar winner Michael Arndt (Little Miss Sunshine, Toy Story 3) writing the script, but Lawrence Kasdan, who wrote 1980’s The Empire Strikes Back and 1983’s Return of the Jedi, was on board to consult. Abrams “was flipping out when he found out that Michael and Larry were on the movie already,” says Kennedy.

Abrams tells THR, “I learned firsthand how incredible and persuasive she is.” Some — but not all — of his reservations were dispelled. “The thing about any pre-existing franchise — I’d sort of done that,” he says. “But when I met with Kathy, it was suddenly very tantalizing.” [...]

So Kennedy had to do what she does so well: put one of the industry’s most prominent directors at ease. And she’s known Abrams since he was 14, when Spielberg had read an article about him winning a Super 8 moviemaking contest and hired the future director to restore his own childhood Super 8 videos.

“We spent a lot of time talking about how meaningful Star Wars is and the depth of the mythology that George has created and how we carry that into the next chapter,” she says. Finally, after a day of furious negotiation, the deal closed the afternoon of Jan. 25.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/lucasfilms-kathleen-kennedy-star-wars-416303

218. Oscar - July 3, 2014

Ah, Abrams Kult, again…
My opinion: Abrams is pure marketing, a mediocre producer and director, not better than Michael Bay…and maybe the worst enemy in the history of ST. A true carpetbagger. I’m sick of the Abrams cult…
The truce is ok, free speech is better…

219. Cygnus-X1 - July 3, 2014

189. Disinvited – July 3, 2014
195. Disinvited – July 3, 2014

The road to tomorrow is not paved with focus groups. You honestly think Cameron came up with the idea of taking cinema 3D to the next level because studio focus groups told him that’s what they wanted? Even better, you think Thomas Alva Edison invented motion pictures because focus groups told him to? It is the purview of art to upset the status quo not maintain it.

That’s exactly right. It’s the difference between Art and Craft. All movies exhibit craftsmanship, but not all movies exhibit artistry. The Art flows from the creative spark, the idea to do something meaningful that hasn’t quite been done before, something that resonates with people, that shows them something about humanity or nature in a slightly different way than they’ve seen or thought about it before.

James Cameron has made artistic movies. Watch The Abyss and try not to feel something, especially in the interaction between the characters played by Ed Harris and Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio. Look at the humanity that he explored and exposed in Aliens.

George Lucas is certainly an artist. Look at what he created out of whole cloth in the original SW trilogy. Yes, he had help crafting those movies (fortunately for him). Yes, he drew from classical mythology. But the creative spark, the Genesis of the idea came from him.

Gene Roddenberry was an artist. Likewise for him with Trek as with Lucas for SW. The values of Trek, the idealized, optimistic future—that’s got GR stamped all over it.

I don’t see JJ Abrams as an artist. I see him as a master craftsman. He makes movies that look great. He replicates special effects techniques to achieve compelling results on screen. But, on a fundamental level, I see JJ Abrams as a technician and a movie producer, not as a writer/director visionary. The BR Trek movies are composed of borrowed parts—The general character bios from TOS, the action-pacing from movies like Inception, as the media professor in the article said, “the emotional structure of Star Wars,” this and that from various comic-book movies, etc….

I don’t see an overall vision for Star Trek from JJ Abrams. Rather, I see a masterfully crafted product that conforms to the specifications asked for by his client, Paramount.

Will Orci be a visionary? Will his Trek have what the JJ-directed Treks have lacked? Being that JJ will be “the guiding light” of the new movie, I don’t see how we’re going to be able to know the full extent of Orci’s contribution to the overall vision. Obviously if it’s a substantially better movie than the last two, we’ll get the impression that it’s due to Orci’s direction. However, if turns out par for the course, we’ll be back at the same is the problem Abrams or Orci? issue that we have now.

220. IDIC Lives! - July 3, 2014

#218 Oscar
The truce is only between Keachick and me, I think, isn’t it??

That specific situation needed diffusing, me thinks.

In general, while good manners are ok, I’m with you in your statement. :-)

221. dmduncan - July 3, 2014

171. Jemini – July 3, 2014

Harlequin-esque romance fantasies about being The One whom The One Who Loves Nobody truly loves, are fine. I personally don’t care how you Spuhurians fill your time.

But the Star Trek that has stayed alive for the past 50 years is not the one where Spock is a hot tempered ladies man.

See me in another 50 after you Spock fetishists (and don’t waste your energy getting all upset with me over that term — I’m immune) keep the Spock / Uhura relationship alive on the screen for that long as the core of the stories, and we’ll talk.

222. dmduncan - July 3, 2014

Oh all that “JJ is still the guiding light” stuff is just BS Hollywood-speak like “I love your work, man!”

File it under Sh*t You Have To Say To Support a Hollywood Career.

223. Oscar - July 3, 2014

220.
That’ s good, non ami..
219
The «guiding light» what a bombastic new age expresion…

Is Abrams a gurú, maybe? Ah, nope, it is only the boss of this Hansel and Gretel couple…
Their «guiding light» is their boss, hehehe…good boys.

224. Ahmed - July 3, 2014

@222. dmduncan

“Oh all that “JJ is still the guiding light” stuff is just BS Hollywood-speak like “I love your work, man!”
File it under Sh*t You Have To Say To Support a Hollywood Career.”

Agreed. Abrams is way too busy with SW 7 right now that I highly doubt he will be involved with the development & production of St 13 in any meaningful way.

225. Disinvited - July 3, 2014

#215. Ahmed – July 3, 2014

Indeed, but which one comes closest to the imagery invoked by “Talifan”?

226. Keachick (Rose) - July 3, 2014

I don’t hate you, IDIC. It is just that I have found how you have at times behaved towards me (and another) to be horrible, hateful, hence my description. In truth, I think that we have both come across to each other as a bitch, even though you, yourself, have not used the word. I will not call you a bitch again, because I sense that deep down that you don’t ever intend to be one and neither do I.

The truce is about letting things go and not allow our less worthy parts of ourselves take rein. We can do better. I think you and I can agree on that as well.

Thank you for not ignoring me and giving me your courteous attention. I think that is all anyone can ask.

227. Hat Rick - July 3, 2014

@Keachick, 226,

Speaking as just an ordinary poster, I thank you for being gracious as well. The way that both you and IDIC Lives! have resolved this conflict should be an example to us all.

Thanks again, and let’s continue to talk Trek! (and associated topics).

P.S.: If I may say, it’s good to know that your daughter enjoys artistic endeavors. Very kind of you to share that information with us. This type of information humanizes people and makes the experience reading these posts richer and more meaningful. We share so many values, we need not let disputes on a fan site divide us when in fact, it can unite us and make life a little more pleasant for all concerned.

228. Hat Rick - July 3, 2014

@IDIC Lives!, 190,

Wonderful words about Nikola Tesla. What a genius! When I read about true geniuses like Tesla and their lives, I am humbled by how humankind can produce such brilliance.

In music, we have Mozart; in physics, we have Newton and Neumann and Einstein; in philosophy we have Kant and Russell. We are a richly endowed species. And yet our potential is only so poorly explored!

If I may say, when I think of all of the people killed in wars and horrible crimes, or even accidents, and the loss to humanity for the flower of our youth, I am depressed and profoundly shaken. World War I killed millions and World War II killed millions more. Even if these individuals themselves would not have created breakthroughs, they were sacred flames of humanity as the spark of life — each valuable, each a priceless gift. Whether they died because of violence or the effects of war, the losses to humanity were immense. To consider, further, loss to humanity because of children and families they were never able to help create….

We do not have warp ships today, perhaps because a soldier whose grandchild might have invented it was killed on a field of battle at Verdun.

Star Trek tells us that the great future we have ahead is truly great, but it is up to us, in the present, to appreciate what it takes to get from here to there. Peace and universal love for all mankind — now that’s a start.

229. dmduncan - July 3, 2014

224. Ahmed – July 3, 2014

JJ probably checks in on a speakerphone 5 minutes a week.

230. Red Dead Ryan - July 3, 2014

Trekkies who act “puritanical” and possessive over “Star Trek” like its some sort of religion clearly deserve to be called “Talifans”. Folks who have enjoyed the new movies have been mocked and ridiculed by Ahmed, Cygnus, and others here who have been ramming their negative (and often angry) views in our faces!

231. Cygnus-X1 - July 3, 2014

222. dmduncan – July 3, 2014

Oh all that “JJ is still the guiding light” stuff is just BS Hollywood-speak like “I love your work, man!” File it under Sh*t You Have To Say To Support a Hollywood Career.

I don’t doubt the butt-kissing factor of it.

But in terms of information, BR have also been saying publicly—via McCay & Payne, if not also others—that Abrams will have a substantial role in the making of the movie, if not also in the writing of it. Remember, the BR Trek movies are tailored to the specifications of Paramount and their global focus group data. Abrams, as the head of BR, will naturally want to supervise the product to ensure that his client, Paramount, is getting what they’ve asked and paid for.

And regarding JJ being too busy with SW7 to have much involvement in ST3, remember that he worked on ST09 and STID amidst a very busy schedule of TV and film projects that he was also working on.

So, I don’t see why we shouldn’t take BR, McCay & Payne at their word.

232. Disinvited - July 4, 2014

Now here’s a little something from one of Disney’s sites, that sheds some light on the answers to the questions, “Does Hollywood need hardcore fans?”, “Does art really matter?”, “Will a major production hire people with absolutely zero previous film experience to play key roles in its goal to pursue over a billion dollars in ticket sales?

http://www.starwars.com/news/r2-d2-is-in-star-wars-episode-7-and-hes-fan-made

”Meet Lee Towersey and Oliver Steeples, Star Wars fans and members of the worldwide R2-D2 Builders Club. They create fully functioning, film-accurate astromech droids like the R2-D2 seen in the photo, and they’re officially part of the creature effects team for Star Wars: Episode VII. They didn’t apply for their jobs, but still had what is probably the best reference one could hope for.

“It all started when Kathleen Kennedy toured the R2-D2 Builders area at Celebration Europe this past summer in Germany,” says Steeples, who finished his first R2-D2 in 2007, after 10 years of collecting parts and researching. “She posed for pictures with us, looked at all the droids we’d built and was very complimentary. I mentioned that the R2-D2 Builders in the UK were available if required, as a semi-joke. When I was contacted to work on the film by [executive producer] Jason McGatlin, it was on her recommendation.”” — Nov 19, 2013, starwars.com

233. Captain Slow - July 4, 2014

McKay: “J.D. was always writing short stories and novels and with a very Twilight Zone sort of sci-fi style.”

Payne: “…we really started moving more towards ‘hard’ sci-fi.

“What we keep on coming back to is the basic credo of Star Trek, that opening prologue you hear at the beginning of each Original Series episode. That’s our mantra for what we’re trying to accomplish here.”

So we have writers who are not only fans of Star Trek, but also have experience writing hard sci-fi, and they’re trying to bring back the exploration aspect of TOS.

There’s also the bit at the end of the interview where they seemed to compare it more to Skyfall and less to the X-men and Doctor Who anniversaries which presumably means no Shatner or anyone else from the past.

Anyway, although I’ve listed it in the past, it bears repeating especially as we have a few new things to add. This is what we have to go on with the movie so far:

As original as possible
Sci-fi mystery
Probably no Klingons
Story set entirely in deep space
Exploration as a major element
The crew having to deal with a hugely difficult decision

All in all, it sounds like a really good movie. Maybe even the best yet. I haven’t seen anything yet that causes concern for me. But it seems that some people are just never happy.

234. Captain Slow - July 4, 2014

Forgot to add possible new aliens that won’t just be lumpy forheads.

235. Jemini - July 4, 2014

221. dmduncan – July 3, 2014

171. Jemini – July 3, 2014

“Harlequin-esque romance fantasies about being The One whom The One Who Loves Nobody truly loves, are fine. I personally don’t care how you Spuhurians fill your time.”
—-

exhibit 1: how to keep being offensive and patronizing fans that like something that I don’t like

honestly, one of my life goals isn’t to understand why you have a problem with the ones that like that relationship (or just have Spock as their own favorite, for that matter), but if you don’t care, then why the heck you keep bringing it up even when it’s not even the point of the current discussion?
Unless you want to bait the fans but in that case, then, don’t complain if someone calls you out on that.

as for how the other fans fill their time: well, they surely do that better than some people here (not making names) since they talk about something they like, at least, (and they probably don’t even read this site) instead of wasting their time over things they dislike and claim to not care about… just to show how coherent they are…

“See me in another 50 after you Spock fetishists (and don’t waste your energy getting all upset with me over that term — I’m immune) keep the Spock / Uhura relationship alive on the screen for that long as the core of the stories, and we’ll talk.”

exhibit 2: gratuitous display of bitterness. You’re doing it right

friendly reminder that I’m not the one who complained that Spock should only be the nerdy friend of hero and then gets bitter when he isn’t. That’s you “Kirk fetishists”.
As for me, the word you’re looking for is, perhaps, ‘apologist’ but if being a Spock’s fetishist means being someone who likes his character on his own merit, and not just in function of Kirk or Bones and whatever stereotype one wants to apply to him, then yes, I’m one and I’m proud of that. Pretty sure that Nimoy also is one since he himself wasn’t always ‘happy’ about the way his character was developed by the writers (especially when considered that he was the most popular)

Unlike you, I participate to the fandom enough and I read different sites than trekmovie and those who really like Spock as individual character happen to be in large part the ones that don’t mind him having another relationship beside the bromance (the same way Kirk fans WANT him to have something more too and don’t think that the Kirk/Bones, Kirk/Uhura and Kirk/Scotty friendships are a hindrance for his character or the main ‘bromance’ ). The gender of these people should be irrelevant but you’re the one who brought it up because, I suppose, of your bias and stereotypes about female fans and your need to put the rest of us in a box even though your ‘sample’ is extremely limited.

236. Oscar - July 4, 2014

233.
«As original as possible
Sci fi mistery
No klingons
Story set enterely in deepl space
Exploration as a major element
The crew having to deal with a hugely didicult decision….»

Prometheus again…!!!!

237. IDIC Lives! - July 4, 2014

#226, Keachick, can we just let it alone now as agreed? Let’s not Monday quarterback it. That’s an Americanism for not re-analyzing a game played on Sunday–on Monday. If you give your rundown of the game, then I have to give mine–or if I don’t, then you paint your picture with none of my input. So let’s let the truce take root and flourish in silence.

#228 Hat Rick, I suppose we could say that the dark, negative side of humankind also suffers its share of losses in Earth wars and conflicts, so the potential lost when the good are killed is offset in some kind of insane cosmic balance. Just a thought. Thanks for your post, I agree!

Tesla said,
“Every living being is an engine geared to the wheelwork of the universe. Though seemingly affected only by its immediate surrounding, the sphere of external influence extends to infinite distance.”

238. Hat Rick - July 4, 2014

@IDIC Lives!, 237, I think a fair interpretation of what Keachick concluded with in her post is that she is willing to let things become peaceable, so let’s all just leave it at that. I think it is a very positive conclusion and that her post overall reflected a desire for truce. Of course, I don’t speak for her. I just want to minimize conflict.

Regarding your comment about an offset, I hope that there is some degree of cosmic justice that exists, but it isn’t always clear to me that there is. On the whole, the history of the modern world has been characterized by a great deal of misery. Technological progress, as well, is a mixed blessing. If we do not maintain a positive outlook as a species, then it is very easy to fall back into chaos and despair. This, to me, is why we need positive words of encouragement in our culture.

In the past, we had religion to inject spiritual guidance, and to a large degree, we still do. However, religious sentiment is also a two-edged sword, because religion can become a tool for use by those with ulterior motives. Pure secularism without ethics is not the answer either, and I think most people understand the need for some commonality in regard to morality. How do we achieve that commonality? There are no easy answers, but at least if we aspire to reach them, perhaps that is all we can expect at the moment.

239. IDIC Lives! - July 4, 2014

#238 Hat Rick,
I feel that Star Trek manages to offer that ethical and “of the spirit” guidance (trying to avoid the word “spiritual”) of which you speak; it shows us our potential as humans – a potential which is not millennia away nor pie-in-the sky, but right around the corner. I’m talking evolutionary “of the spirit and mind” –not some utopian literal society.

This is the reason I champion TOS so passionately and do not want it to be lost in a pile of popcorn which might as well be dead tribbles. :-)

It isn’t even that TOS is so brilliant (it is, at times), it’s not that I think it is sacred, it is that it somehow took root in the human psyche. It entered the collective consciousness. That is a done deed, a fact–and to lose this–the BEST of this– is unthinkable to me. For instance, to lose Spock’s wisdom, patience, gentleness, and replace it with a guy with anger issues and a girl friend aboard–

But that’s just me, and many others of us too.

My research and writing on human consciousness has led me, yes to Jung as you mentioned, and to viewing the human race from afar, or at least, rising out of the trees and looking at the forest. Looking at us as a planetary species (and thanks to Trek for that too), we see the force of evolution, a tide which ebbs and flows as it collectively moves us forward. Yes, two steps forward, one step backward, progress is slow.

Genius needs to be treasured and our species has always been hard on geniuses. Like Sheldon of the “Big Bang Theory,” it is hard to be normal socially and be a genius, apparently – or like Spock. He is a bit strange too.

Now Kirk, he is a functional genius who can also dazzle a crowd with his charisma. I digress but that Kirk is very unusual!

Einstein’s familiar quote, “Great spirits have always meant violent opposition from mediocre minds,” was—typical of how geniuses must view the world in their experience. They have no choice, it is their experience, it has made them who they are. True for everyone, of course.

Tesla, Einstein, Rupert Sheldrake and so many more, cannot help but go against the current flow. Most of them felt/feel technology needs to keep advancing. We can’t bury our heads in the sand of isolationism and hope technology goes away. As a flawed species, we will use it rightly and wrongly yet again.

People should be more aware of what is happening in the field of sciences/technology; for instance, the Singularity between human and computer is predicted to happen in 2045 by Time magazine. It could happen earlier. Maybe by being aware, informed, and speaking our minds, we can guide it to be “more human” – not less. I admit, for humankind to be simply more intelligent is– not entirely a bad thing.

Religion is not the answer, IMO. It has been a barrier to evolution of the spirit and mind more than a guide. There need be no middleman between the human consciousness and its creator or creative spirit or creative force.

But, progress of our spirit needs to catch up with progress of our scientific accomplishments. Again, Star Trek reminds us of this. I wrote an article which pictures a starship crew, I can’t re-write the whole thing here and I bet you’re pleased about that.

But as Roddenberry showed us, I pictured a crew which had women with covered heads if they so choose (Islamic, IOW), crew members with pentagram medallions (Pagans/nature worshippers), crew members with Native American and other Native People symbols, crew members with crosses, Stars of David, and representations of other religions and spiritualities.

I also noted that the majority of crew members, I felt, would be agnostics with a nice sprinkling of atheists. These symbols would all be proud reminders of where we came from, who we are culturally BUT–

The in Star Treks Reality, old arguments and wars have been left far behind, as Trek showed us in 1965. One crew, a human crew–boldly going to discover new planets, new civilizations–with two remarkable commanding officers and 430 remarkable people.

240. TUP - July 4, 2014

Abrams was so excited that Michael Arndt was writing the screenplay that he promptly fired him and write the movie himself.

I just can’t imagine a Star Wars that doesnt abide by the traditional vision of the movies, the story-telling method and editing. Hopefully Abrams doesn’t mess with that.

I think Abrams is a good film maker but Im not sure i’ve ever seen anything of his that was deeper than a very surface-level production. Slick looking, but paint by numbers like “Slick Modern Filmmaking for Dummys”. He’s no Spielberg. People joke about the lens flares but for him to not realise how overboard they have been shows he isnt able to really self-evaluate. We’ll see if he tries to sneak any into Star Wars.

241. Who cares - July 4, 2014

@Oscar. I am Lakota so nothing the Comanche did has anything to do with me. Additionally, according to my studies the Comanche were not actually a tribe, they were a loose association of renegades expelled from other tribes, which is yet another reason many Natives were angry about Johnny Depp’s Tonto, who was stated to be a Comanche. I have already read the book you recommend, and in fact I can guarantee that I know more about Native American history than you ever have, the good and the bad.

One last point, you respond with “bah” to mention of the Wounded Knee massacre, which IMO is as insulting as saying that what the Nazis did to the Jewish was not that big a deal. Both peoples survived attempted genocide, and that should never be ridiculed.

242. Captain Slow - July 4, 2014

@ 240 TUP

He’s said several times that he went overboard with lens flares in some scenes. He even had ILM paint out lens flares in STID. There will of course be plenty in Star Wars. I don’t think he’d ever stop, but he may do it differently. I don’t know who the director of photography is for SW but that will affect the look of the movie. Super 8 for instance seemed to me to have fewer lens flares.

243. Ahmed - July 4, 2014

McKay mentioned in the first part of the interview with Trekcore that the unproduced “Goliath” script is online somewhere:

“You write an original script, people like it, then they hire you to rewrite one of their project. This one didn’t quite land, so we were then looking to write another script. What that one ended up becoming was a script called Goliath, which should be on the Internet somewhere with our names on it”

I looked for the script but so far nothing!

244. Who cares - July 4, 2014

PS. I should have mentioned that while the Comanche are a federally recognized tribe in the modeen era that does not change the origins of the tribe.

245. Ahmed - July 4, 2014

@231. Cygnus-X1 – July 3, 2014

“And regarding JJ being too busy with SW7 to have much involvement in ST3, remember that he worked on ST09 and STID amidst a very busy schedule of TV and film projects that he was also working on.”

The general perception about Abrams that he is master of multitasking; however, Devin Faraci of Badassdigest seem to have a different view on that matter!

“Now Orci will be pretty much calling the shots. Bad Robot has serious control over Trek, and with JJ off in Star Wars land (and being famously unable to do two things at once – he couldn’t even get serious about STID until the press for Super 8 was over), Orci’s going to have free reign.”

http://badassdigest.com/2014/05/09/can-roberto-orci-make-the-best-star-trek-reboot-film/

246. dennycranium - July 4, 2014

I don’t expect much in the way of changes in Trek 3.
We are probably going to get another popcorn movie like last time.
If it’s a little less 90210 like Into Darkness was, I’ll be happier.
Please respect the “science” of Trek canon and I’ll be ecstatic.
If you can beam someone down, you can beam them up, etc.

247. Keachick (Rose) - July 4, 2014

#246 – “Please respect the “science” of Trek canon and I’ll be ecstatic.
If you can beam someone down, you can beam them up, etc.”

One of the first things I read coming onto this site. I think it is more crucial that viewers understand and respect the context in which the “science” of Star Trek canon is shown to work or not work, in the case of certain scenes.

It is clear that the Enterprise transporters were only partially operational because they had also been damaged as a result of the ship’s systems being fired upon and complete loss of power that occurred.

Who the semi-operational transporters beamed were two separate MOTIONLESS people. Spock was the first person and the location he was beamed onto was also non-moving – therefore the transporters managed to get a proper lock. The second person was also one motionless Lt Uhura, however it was no doubt a bit more difficult to get a lock on her destination, because it (the barge) was moving, but fortunately, the movement was slow and at a constant speed.

However, Khan and Spock were moving around the slow moving barge very quickly – they were all over the place, therefore the damaged transporters were not able to get a proper lock that would safely beam both back to the Enterprise. Therefore, one other person was sent down with the idea of stunning Khan, rendering him unconscious and therefore, not moving, while she and Spock, with Khan beside them, would be as close to one another as they could and remain as still as possible in order that the transporters get a lock on all three of them together and beam them back safely.

Chekov had a similar problem trying beam back a fast moving Kirk and Sulu, but at least the two were holding tightly onto each other and appeared as one unit, unlike Khan and Spock who were rarely as one tight unit.

This was never difficult for me to understand. The reasons the transporters could beam a person down, but not fast moving people up, was patently obvious, given the damage to the ship’s systems. They were lucky to have any operational transporters at all and if they had no transporters, then Khan would have escaped jurisdiction – ie would not have stood trial, right and just and Kirk would be dead, with no chance of being revived, unlike prime Spock.

I guess that ending would have suited a lot of people, but to me, it would have been a waste of a precious human life, ie James T Kirk – not right and just at all.

248. Captain Slow - July 4, 2014

@ 245 Ahmed

How is Devin Faraci an authority on anything related to the movie? So far he has shown no trace of impartiality and seems to spend all his time insulting everyone involved in the new movies, Bob in particular.

249. Curious Cadet - July 4, 2014

@159. dmduncan,
“I can find nothing in these two guys’ history that indicates they are anything but what you call “paint-by-numbers.” I think that’s why they were chosen.”

With all due respect to Orci, I think the mediocrity of STID holds the true answer to this question — like ST09 which O & K probably had sitting in the back of their minds for years if they ever got to write a Star Trek movie, I believe these two guys were hired because they brought a well thought out story they too had been developing for years together based on their mutual interest in Trek.

Considering how busy O&K were after ST09, they essentially blew their best shot, and did not have enough time to craft something of equal quality, which resulted in STID. So they essentially interviewed a bunch of fresh young writers and hired the team with the best idea they heard for ST3.

Assuming Orci’s taste is still intact, it bodes well we’re going to get a really well thought out story, especially now that Abrams and Lindeloff are not around to muck it up. How well it all comes together is still in question with Orci as a first time director, but I expect the story to be at least as good as ST09, if not better.

250. Ahmed - July 4, 2014

@248. Captain Slow,

You may not like his style & views but Devin Faraci is a movie critic, so I guess that he knows a thing or two about movies & the people within that industry.

251. Disinvited - July 4, 2014

# 248. Captain Slow – July 4, 2014

” How is Devin Faraci an authority on anything related to the movie? So far he has shown no trace of impartiality and seems to spend all his time insulting everyone involved in the new movies, Bob in particular.” — Captain Slow

You don’t have to be an authority to be an eyewitness to a train wreck, and just because someone is a hostile witness doesn’t mean that person’s testimony is worthless.

The truth is the truth. It doesn’t automatically become false merely because the devil himself doth spake it.

“…he couldn’t even get serious about STID until the press for Super 8 was over,,,” — Devin Faraci

The best way to demonstrate the weaknesses of his observation is for you to provide evidence that JJ did do significant work on STID while he was doing press for SUPER 8 — not assaulting Faraci’s character, as the falseness of his own words will do that without any needed assist from your indignation.

252. TUP - July 4, 2014

Well the “science” of Trek notwithstanding, one of the yuk yuk issues is that the transporters or warp drive or weapons or whatever is always off-line at the critical moment or shown to be super-powered beyond normal capacity when needed. And that itself is “weak”. I know the writers will say “well, we need to take liberties to make a movie work”, for example, they need Vulcan to be three minutes from Earth rather than 2.5 hours of the Enterprise flying in space. Ofcourse there are other options to show time passing.

One thing I really found jarring in the modern films was how sterile everything looked. That was a drawback to their bigger, flashier, shinier, newer look they wanted. in TOS, you really got a sense that the crew was in deep space and that it was dangerous…that things could go wrong and they couldnt just pop into a gas station. That as high tech as a warp drive ship was, it was still a piece of machinery, not a luxury hotel.

people will say, well they cant have the Enterprise looking like it was built in the 60’s…or they will say, your iPhone looks more hightech than TOS or they will say an F16 is more advanced cockpit than TOS enterprise. But look at the Space Station or shuttles – are they examples of modern, high tech machines? ofcourse. Do they look like they were made by Apple? Nope.

I remember when they were designing the ship for Enterprise and the question of why the ship would have switches and buttons when we use touch screen tech now and the answer was, NASA could put touch screen technoloy in space but they prefer their pilots to have tactile feedback.

Anyway, I digress. The science of trek was out of whack in the modern movies. Truly we dont need ships. We have transwarp communication, transwarp beaming. We have the ability to cure death.

Also, in the time it took Marcus to build that giant ship, why didnt he just create his own super soldiers instead of relying on a “madman” from hundreds of years ago who he had to threaten and bribe to help him?

So many plot holes. Too many.

253. Captain Slow - July 4, 2014

Well he could hardly direct while out promoting another movie, could he? But he could contribute to the story and give notes which according to the writers is exactly what he did, and what he is doing right now while directing Star Wars.

Personally I don’t care at all what the critics think. What makes their opinion more right? I’m sure everyone here can think of critically acclaimed movies that they’ve hated and critical failures that they’ve loved. So forgive me if I don’t see the value in the opinion of a bitter critic who writes for a site called Badassdigest.

254. IDIC Lives! - July 4, 2014

#252 TUP,
Yes, too many, way too many. Way, way too many.

The nuEnterprise has the same look at a Stormtrooper’s armor/uniform. White plastic. Black plastic here and there.

Too much space, look at the wasted space around the brig.
How come such ridiculously high ceilings, or if the ship was upside-down at that crucial moment, then such deep drops? What wasted space! Many floors high of nothing, just space.

Would not space for over 400 people for long voyages be a precious commodity? But, I assume when nuTrek folk wrecked (or nearly so) the Enterprise, they wanted to be sure of having CGI shots on crew members flying that long empty distance, being finally sucked out into space.

Again, all for special effects and show boating. No thinking involved, no feeling of the reality of a real starship.

255. Disinvited - July 4, 2014

#253. Captain Slow – July 4, 2014

From Jan 13, 2011:

http://collider.com/j-j-abrams-interview-star-trek-2-super-8/

“While at the party to celebrate the Fox/FX portion of the Television Critics Association Winter Press Tour, J.J. Abrams talked about his thoughts on the Lost finale, how he feels about the move to Friday nights for Fringe, why he thinks Undercovers failed, and how excited he is to get started on the pilot for Alcatraz on January 19th. He also said that audiences should see a trailer for Super 8 in March, and that he hopes to have made his decision about whether to return to the director’s chair for Star Trek 2 by then. ” — Christina Radish , COLLIDER

“I guess the idea of not wanting to choose to direct a film, for which I’ve not read a script. It’s a tough decision to make without seeing any pages. That’s not to say that I don’t have all the faith in the world in the spectacular writers. Damon Lindelof, Bob Orci and Alex Kurtzman are awesome. My hope is that they’ll write the script, it will be great and we can make a fun, exciting sequel to Star Trek.” — JJ Abrams

“The truth is that my focus has been so much on finishing ‘Super 8′ that it’s been something I’m looking forward to getting to, but with an incredibly compressed post schedule, there hasn’t been a whole lot of time for me to be working with the writers.” — JJ Abrams

Late July of 2011, JJ, et al, anounced Paramount was pushing hard that they meet their original STID release date but they convinced Paramount that a delay was necessary.

It seems fairly evident JJ wasn’t seriously involved with STID’s script in the SUPER 8 time frame. His position was basically: no script; no me. Without a script or director, production doesn’t “seriously” start. So he was estimating doing nothing on STID until March of 2011 which was about 2 months away from SUPER 8’s release.

JJ did not “officially” commit to directing STID until SUPER 8’s run was done. Being serious about something usually involves making a commitment and he didn’t do that for STID until after promoting his SUPER 8 in its largest market which was domestic..

256. Cygnus-X1 - July 4, 2014

245. Ahmed – July 4, 2014

re: Guiding Light-gate

There seems to be some disagreement regarding the degree to which JJ Abrams will be involved in ST3.

@Matt Wright — If you guys happen to do another interview with anyone from the ST3 production, it would be good to ask them for some clarity as to whether ST3 will be “a Bob Orci film,” or a collaboration to some degree with JJ Abrams… or perhaps Lindelof and/or Burke will be contributing ideas?

257. Ahmed - July 4, 2014

@ 256. Cygnus-X1 – July 4, 2014

“re: Guiding Light-gate
There seems to be some disagreement regarding the degree to which JJ Abrams will be involved in ST3.”

Check this interview with Collider six months ago,

===========
Question: Are you close to finding a director for Star Trek 3?

JJ ABRAMS: I’m just focusing on Episode VII, right now. That’s the focus.

http://collider.com/star-wars-episode-7-script-imax-j-j-abrams/
===========

There you have it, he has no time to focus on ST 13 while he is working on SW 7.

“Guiding Light-gate” indeed :-)

258. Ahmed - July 4, 2014

@255. Disinvited

“The truth is that my focus has been so much on finishing ‘Super 8′” — JJ Abrams

Yeah, the same kind focus he is giving SW 7 now, a far bigger movie than “Super 8″.

I’d rather have him focus on making an exciting SW movie, than diverting some of his attention to ST 13!

259. Curious Cadet - July 4, 2014

@257. Ahmed,
“There you have it, he has no time to focus on ST 13 while he is working on SW 7.”

Excellent point. Abrams will have none but the most cursory involvement.

260. Keachick (Rose) - July 4, 2014

#252 – “Anyway, I digress. The science of trek was out of whack in the modern movies. Truly we dont need ships. We have transwarp communication, transwarp beaming. We have the ability to cure death.”

Ye gods…:(

261. Keachick (Rose) - July 4, 2014

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/star-trek-3-film-will-be-closer-original-explore-deep-space-promises-director-1454595

262. Captain Slow - July 5, 2014

@ 257 Ahmed

Heaven forbid he spend his time on the movie he’s directing rather than the one that at the time had no script. Star Trek isn’t even in pre-production yet.

Now it is of course possible for a director to work on multiple movies at once. Spielberg shot Schindler’s List while Jurassic Park was in post. But even though he is a very experienced director he said that it was difficult and stressful to keep both movies in his head at the same time.

263. Cygnus-X1 - July 5, 2014

257. Ahmed – July 4, 2014

But that was six months ago, before Payne (or was it McCay?) declared him “the guiding light”. And JJ might just have wanted that particular interview, at that particular time, to be about SW7 and not about ST3.

I still think that we could do with some clarification from the powers that be.

264. Curious Cadet - July 5, 2014

@262 Capt. & 263 Cygnus,

But then he wasn’t able to work on STID because he was focused on Super 8 either (I’ll let Ahmed dig out the quotes). He seems to focus exclusively on projects he actually cares about.

265. Duke Snyder - July 5, 2014

As one of 186,000 fans who wrote in to the network to keep TOS on the air, I know the bottom line is what it is all about to those that finance any project. I have been very pleased with the last 2 Trek films. The first Star Trek film with TOS cast was disappointing. Fortunately, 2 and 3 were better. 4 was ok, 5 was not better. 6 had a decent plot, but was not well directed. I have enjoyed all of the spinoff TV trek ventures with the exception of Enterprise. That prequel had good actors and characters. I just could not embrace it.

266. Mad Mann - July 5, 2014

So. Recently, Shatner tweeted with Orci about being back on Twitter after quitting. Odd behavior for Shatner, since he wanted nothing to do with Abrams or any of nu-Trek’s creative team for years. Why is he so nice to Orci?

My speculation: Shatner is swallowing his pride, and trying to get in good with Orci’s good graces, and, perhaps, appear in this next Trek movie. And therefore, there is actually a part for him, somehow.

Yeah, I said it first. Shatner is in the next Trek. Boom.

267. IDIC Lives! - July 5, 2014

#265 Maybe Shatner and JJ particularly did not see eye to eye and so now with JJ somewhat(??) gone, Shatner is willing to connect with Orci.

Or, how do you know Orci did not connect with him first, perhaps not thru the Great God Twitter.

No use to sound derogatory to Shatner when you have not a clue–really.

268. Jonboc - July 5, 2014

#266. “Odd behavior for Shatner, since he wanted nothing to do with Abrams or any of nu-Trek’s creative team for years.”

I’ve never heard anything of the sort. In fact, from what I’ve read, Shatner was gracious and met with the Bad Robot when they requested an audience. If anything, I’d say Shatner was disappointed they couldn’t get him in the movie.

269. Captain Slow - July 5, 2014

A thought just occurred to me. We know that J.J. was the one who decided not to have Shatner in the first movie even though a scene was written for him. And the one who wrote the scene was Bob, who is now the director and head writer. He even said once that his biggest regret about ST09 was not including Shatner. So I suppose it is possible, but I think it’s highly unlikely. I don’t see how they would fit him in after all this time. Personally I don’t even know if they should. But if he is in it they have to keep it top secret until he appears on screen. Wouldn’t that be a jaw-dropping moment?

270. Keachick (Rose) - July 5, 2014

Yes, that is probably the situation – Bob Orci did write a short scene which involved prime Kirk (to be played by William Shatner) for the first movie, but it got rejected by the Supreme Court and more particularly, by director JJ Abrams.

Now that Bob Orci is director, William Shatner might see the possibility of Orci writing a scene for him in the third movie and would become part of the third movie.

I have always said that William Shatner should not play (Captain) James T Kirk, because there is already a James T Kirk in this alternate timeline, but could easily play an elderly male relative…we could discover where the James T Kirks get their slightly quirky mannerisms and how they speak at times, with their unusually timed pauses mid-sentence etc…:)

You could have a scene where Uncle Alan (WS) is with his nephew, along with Spock, Bones, others(?). Uncle Alan is talking and naturally exhibits some of the unusual vocal inflections (we are familiar hearing from TOS TV’s Kirk) and suddenly Bones says, as he looks at alt. Jim Kirk (Pine), “So that’s where you get it from, that way of saying things sometimes”. Nothing heavy, just a pleasant interlude, perhaps even comical, and genuine homage to the James Kirks (as in what makes the character a bit different, unique, and wonderful). The two Kirks’ responses, denial, could be conveyed by (subtle) vocal inflections and facial/physical gestures on the part of both Kirks (played by Shatner and Pine). The responses in themselves prove to everyone there (and the audience) that the Kirks do. indeed. talk. like that. some. times…with the two Kirks having the expectation that those around would believe them and not finding anything at all amusing…

To me, this would be much more interesting and fun to see than shoot ‘em ups or punch ups, although it is likely that the next movie will have these as well.

@Bob Orci – when you say “Action” as director, let it be more for scenes, like the one I suggested There are action scenes (like the kind shown on Nibiru) and there are the other kind. Please – Let your “Action” word be a lot more for the former types of scenes mentioned here, not for latter, eg firing on ships, punch ups etc.

271. IDIC Lives! - July 5, 2014

#270 Keachick

But, but, but–the alternate timeline created 2 Spocks, this we know and so, also 2 Kirks. For William Shatner not to play the iconic role he created and played for so many years is –UNTHINKABLE. it is insulting to Shatner, IMO.

I am trying to behave but. this. Idea. of yours is a. NO GO.

272. IDIC Lives! - July 5, 2014

“Uncle Alan” my. Arse!

273. IDIC Lives! - July 5, 2014

I put my palm to cheek, ala Jack Benny and William Shatner.

Give me credit, Marja, I am trying–

Calling Hat Rick, nothing less than a Federation diplomat needed!

Ok, we all have our opinions. I will repeat this slogan 100 times.

But alas, this has sprung from my lips again: ‘

UNCLE ALAN, MY ARSE! How very insulting.

274. Tom - July 5, 2014

I hope Bob and team do include Shatner. I agree with them that Skyfall was a success. I dont think thry need to overly pepper this movie wth Trek background. However it really would be awesome if Bob got this done as he has said it was one of his regrets from 09. Would be cool of Nimoy was there also. Always better when together. However that great scene Bob wrote should not be wasted and if they do get Shatner on set they should film it for the special features

275. Keachick (Rose) - July 5, 2014

#271, #272, #273 – Others in the past have made similar suggestions, eg that William Shatner play Kirk’s grandfather, Tiberius. Also, similar suggestions have made regarding how we might get to see the other original TOS actors – eg by having Nichelle Nichols play (Saldana)Uhura’s grandmother or other older female relative, and the same applied to Walter Koenig and George Takei.

As far as I know, no one called out these suggestions as being insulting to the original actors. It was more a matter of whether their inclusion of any or all could work within any story being told. In fact, in the Special Features section of the two DVD-set of the first film, Star Trek, it appeared that Nichelle Nichols seemed quite open to the idea. She did not appear insulted at all.

I don’t see why any of these original TOS actors would feel insulted by such a suggestion. I think it is more insulting to say that Shatner can’t be in any film because he is too old, too fat, doesn’t look like Kirk, stupid fan service etc – yes, all these comments have been made about William Shatner, but certainly NOT by me.

The reality is none of the original TOS cast can appear in these movies playing their original TOS characters, except for Leonard Nimoy as Spock. Spock is a human/vulcan hybrid and clearly Spock has inherited the Vulcan genes which allows him to live almost twice as long as any healthy human can, which is why we saw (Nimoy) Spock appear in the TNG TV series and now in this alternate universe.

In order to have these other actors play their original TOS characters at the age these actors are would require a rather convoluted story/explanation to account for their appearance in this alternate timeline. To what purpose? None – that I can see. But if they play an older relative or other in this alternate time, then there could be an interesting story, interlude, sub-plot, written for them.

To other posters – please refer to mine and IDIC posts about this topic on other thread – ie STID – Saturn Awards one.

276. Hat Rick - July 6, 2014

Although I’m flattered, I really don’t like being asked to mediate disputes, because I’m on this website to have a bit of fun, and mediating disputes is work. So, I just hope that we keep the discussion civil and focus on the merits of what is being talked about, without too much editorializing.

My preference would be to see William Shatner play the character he’s associated with. Yes, there is precedent for actors to play the ancestors of their primary character — In Star Trek VI, Michael Dorn played a Klingon who was the ancestor of Worf. And no, I don’t think it’s insulting for that kind of portrayal to happen. But Mr. Shatner does occupy a special place in the minds of many Trek fans. He is in very large measure responsible for the cultural icon that is James T. Kirk to begin with.

It seems to me that we can resolve the question of whether he should be James T. Kirk by having him play James T. Kirk in a possible future within the new timeline. It’s true that Shatner doesn’t look very much like Chris Pine, but that wouldn’t matter very much to me since Mr. Pine doesn’t look very much like a young William Shatner, and yet we are supposed to think of the two timelines as having diverged only at the point of Nero’s interference. In other words, there is no reason for Shatner’s appearance to change to Pine’s if the Prime Timeline and the new timeline were for all intents and purposes the same, or even identical, since the genetic make-up of the fetus that would be born during the Nero incursion had already been established.

Thus, any disparity between Shatner’s appearance and Pine’s is supposed to be overlooked by the audience as part of the suspension of disbelief.

Having Shatner play a possible future Kirk who IS, in fact, the character played by Pine means that both actors represent the “real” James T. Kirk in the preferential timeline (the timeline we are following in the movie). This would address Keachick’s concern that we are not according Pine the privilege he has earned of being James T. Kirk, but also allow IDIC Lives! (and me) to enjoy seeing Shatner on the screen again as the same character.

If Shatner plays a Kirk whose future is actually terminated (through his intercession from the possible future) because he, as Kirk, realizes that the younger version of himself needs to act in such a way that the future that Shatner-as-Kirk no longer can validly exist, then that would be a knowing sacrifice by Shatner-as-Kirk and allow him to go out in blaze of glory that was denied Kirk in Star Trek: Generations. This would be an added bonus. It would work in a “Guardian of the Gate of Forever”-type plot that would be nice to see in the movie. It would also harken to “All Good Things…,” the final episode of TNG.

277. IDIC Lives! - July 6, 2014

Hat Rick,
I won’t make the diplomat joke again then.

Michael Dorn ain’t Shatner, as you point out. He did not help create and nurture Trek like Shatner did. Perhaps Shatner didn’t intend to be that noble or some such but he did really care (obviously he did) for most of Trek’s run; we cannot escape the fact that GR’s influence waned after first season, if we can believe reports and certainly during second season. GR was off trying to keep Trek alive during 2nd season, he wasn’t there as much. Shatner and Nimoy battled out the finer points of the scripts and the roles of their characters along with other (few) creative personnel. For Shatner not to be some form of Kirk (regarding various timelines “some form”)– is patently absurd and stupid.

Frankly, this is no fun. This site can be fun but it gets constantly bogged down for the same reason. I am removing myself, I wish you well.

Yes I have removed myself before and shown up again and I might do that again someday – that’s how much I love to discuss Trek – but I really don’t need the stupid hassle.

Bowing to the lowest denominator is not ALWAYS the best thing to do. That’s where our excellence went as a country and as Trek fans. Once again, I bid you adieux.

278. Hat Rick - July 6, 2014

IDIC Lives!, sorry to see you go. I hope you come back soon. There are still lots of things left to discuss.

279. TUP - July 6, 2014

Good GOD Keachick! You want them to include William Shatner but you dont want him to play James T Kirk??? Please turn in your Trekie Fan Club badge, you’re off the island.

IDIC – absolutely spot on regarding the tech. To me its like these guys took over the franchise and wanted to live out every fantastic idea they had for future technology. One day we will fly between stars in glorious ships. They forget, this isnt THEIR franchise to do with as they please.

What separates Star Trek from Star Wars is that Trek is Science Fiction Reality and Wars is Science Fiction Fantasy. One of Lucas’ great ideas was to begin A New Hope with the line “A long time ago…” It completely separated the idea of Star Wars from Earth’s future.

When Janeway talked about how if she or other “modern” Captains did what Kirk and Sulu etc did, they’d all be thrown in the brig, it really illustrated one of the key differences between TOS and the far less interesting Post-TNG era of Trek – which was that even on Voyager, they never really seemed “lost in space”. In TOS, they really were on the frontier. The Captain was the highest authority because they rarely could just phone an Admiral and ask for orders.

I think bringing Trek back to “Earth” in the TOS movies was “okay” because Meyer instilled some continuity and some rules, modelled after the military. It gave the films structure. And ofcourse, the WOK space battle scenes gave us the sense that there was danger…that they couldnt just call for help.

And ofcourse IDIC, you are right about the wasted space. I bet any sort of advanced engineer laughs his ass off at these films – its like a rich guy’s mansion of space ships. A Brig with 20 foot cielings. Must be nice.

They are pooched now though because there is very little they can do to change the look of the ship. Some subtle changes might help, like darker lighting. But they goofed with their original designs and now they are stuck with them.

280. Keachick (Rose) - July 6, 2014

IDIC Lives! TUP –
It’s not that I don’t want William Shatner to play James T Kirk again. In fact, I have even written scenarios where I have had the actor plays his original, iconic part and actually posted my ideas on this site a couple of years back. I supported Bob Orci’s script idea for ST09, the one which was vetoed by the Supreme Court/JJ Abrams.

It is just that I do not see how it is reasonably feasible and I am not alone in that view.

Hat Rick – You misunderstand. This is not about Chris Pine. This is about the character he plays in this alternate timeline…

IDIC – You just can’t help yourself, can you?…:(

281. Mad Mann - July 6, 2014

Maybe we will get that exact same scene from Trek ’09 with the Shat for Orci-Trek ’16. Y’know, the hologram-birthday-thing-to-Nimoy-Spock-thing.

Perhaps a “Valentine for the fans” to end the movie. Maybe as a tag at the end of the credits?

While I want a whole new story and for this next one, I do hope there is at least one thing to tie to the 50 years of Trek. But I’m not sure what. Maybe just if they actually explore a strange new world, actively seek out new life and a new civilization, and truly (and boldly) go where no one, not a single sentient lifeform has ever been, before.

That’s be cool.

282. Hat Rick - July 6, 2014

@Keachick, 280, thank you for your response. If I have the time, I will try to review the points you mentioned you had previously made in this general regard in speaking with IDIC Lives! in another thread.

@Mad Mann, 281, I think the term “Valentine to the fans” has soured as a phrase for fan service for those who saw the same description of the last episode of ENT as something else entirely not offered to, but rather inflicted upon, said fans. But I certainly take your meaning. I, for one, wouldn’t mind seeing William Shatner one last time on screen as Kirk.

283. Tom - July 6, 2014

That Shatner scene that Bob wrote should be used. If it is not in the movie they should somehow get it filmed. in addition ti whatever they use for the movie if Shatner does appear

284. Tom - July 6, 2014

I know many of us would like a generations spanning story featuring all incarnations of Trek. I think while that would cetainly be fun it is not practical for the general movie going audience. They seem to be like how Skyfall was done without overusing past references. I do think that a Shatner and Nimoy appearance as Kirk and Spock would be a great way to acknowledge the anniversary. I mean the Shatner appearance has been talked about back in the early stages of the 09 movie. It does not have to right the wrongs of Generations as that may require too much doing. Something poignant that they could pull off where it is important to the story yet not asking them to do too much

285. Ahmed - July 6, 2014

@ 284. Tom – July 6, 2014

“I know many of us would like a generations spanning story featuring all incarnations of Trek. I think while that would cetainly be fun it is not practical for the general movie going audience.”

‘X-Men: Days of Future Past’, a generations spanning story featuring old & new X-Men cast, proved that it is not only practical for the mainstream audience but also profitable.

DOFP made over $ 700 M worldwide, it is the highest-grossing film in the 14-year-old X-Men series’ history.

286. dmduncan - July 6, 2014

249. Curious Cadet – July 4, 2014

I don’t think that’s what happened. I think they got involved with Star Trek because they were already connected to Bad Robot and Bob needed someone. He liked the way they wrote, and they are at least pseudo-Star Trek fans.

Their answer to Bob’s question, what would they like to see in the movie?, was a very safe one. Go back to the roots, the opening mantra. Space, the final frontier. Which the movie they are working on was already set up to do anyway.

But good science fiction is hard to write. It’s hard for people who specialize in the genre, and I don’t think they were chosen because Bob wants to make a good science fiction movie and these guys fit or had a story ready.

I think they were chosen because they are a good replacement for Alex, because they were at hand at Bad Robot, and because they will help Bob bring the same kind of action-movie Star Trek to the screen, which style of movie is probably why they were connected to Bad Robot to begin with.

Thus, I think this next movie is about keeping the status quo Bob and BR established with the first two movies.

And these interviews…I like interviews where the subject says things that are surprising and unexpected. It tells you they have an individual life of the mind. And I don’t like ones where the subjects sound like they are saying everything they are supposed to, and that’s what I get from these guys.

I tend to dismiss these types of interviews as empty of candor. Which does not surprise me because these guys are at the beginning of their career. But that makes my point that Hollywood doesn’t let you be honest, and I don’t expect to hear that honesty here.

It would be nice if I heard something more than generic assurances in what they said, but it just sounds like more of what I heard about STiD during its own production phase from Damon Lindelof.

Which is not a compliment.

287. Harry Ballz - July 7, 2014

@286

So, dmduncan, if I understand you, and I think I do, you’re saying we’re basically f*cked.

288. Cygnus-X1 - July 7, 2014

286. dmduncan – July 6, 2014

I think you’ve got it sussed.

289. Cygnus-X1 - July 7, 2014

279. TUP – July 6, 2014

Good GOD Keachick! You want them to include William Shatner but you dont want him to play James T Kirk???

Who does she want Shatner to play, Alt TJ Hooker?

What would TJ Hooker be like in the Alt Universe?

290. Tom - July 7, 2014

285 Ahmed

Good point. X Men DOFP was a success. Just reading the interview it does not seem like they want to go in that direction. although I would imagine they at least discussed an epic generations spanning tale. Supposedly their opening conversations were “what would you like to see”. All 3 are Trek fans so who knows. We’ll see

291. TUP - July 7, 2014

Shatner seems like a cool cat. Someone should send him the scene that was written and ask him to read the dialogue on youtube or something. Then some enterprising fans can edit it with some footage and tack it onto the end of Star Trek.

Then againm Shatner is also very smart about making sure he gets paid.

292. Uncle Alan - July 7, 2014

Shatner is a cool cat!

293. Tom - July 7, 2014

291 TUP

i really wish we could see this scene. Is it too much much to ask that if Shatner is in the next movie to shoot that scene too( even if it is not included in the movie)?

294. Tom - July 7, 2014

291 TUP

I think Nimoy had some dialogue to lead up to the scene as well. I just hope they do something really cool with these guys for the 50th anniversary

295. dmduncan - July 7, 2014

There’s room to make a Star Trek action movie, a good follow-up to ST.09, and more of the kind of movie that Star Trek fans want to see, all in one.

And if Bob had saved the risk he took on Ender’s Game for Star Trek, I would be more comfortable predicting a more unexpected approach on the next movie.

But Ender’s Game flopped, and I have no idea how adventurous Bob is now feeling.

My guess is not too…

I think the reason these new guys are involved is because Bob and BR are trying to make the best of a bad situation.

296. TUP - July 7, 2014

To be honest, Im probably in the minority on the Shatner scene. If I have my choice, I want to see Shatner as James Kirk, alive and doing what he does, The holo-letter was from far back in Spocks past. So as you watch it you’d get the sense that James Kirk is loooooong dead. Im not sure I like that.

297. Uncle Alan - July 7, 2014

We can be assured that the Original James Kirk is not dead.

298. dmduncan - July 7, 2014

And JJ contributed to the bad situation by professing loyalty to Trek and then abandoning it, generating the appearance of poisonous air around it even though it was financially successful. Bad leadership.

And by what I’m reading he is doing exactly what I predicted he would do on Star Wars, by using all his best chops for that. You are going to see what his “all” looks like on Star Wars. And then you will see all the love he did not give to Star Trek.

Star Trek is always going to be the red-headed step child of big screen SF next to Star Wars, unless and until it gets its own powerful champion.

299. Keachick (Rose) - July 7, 2014

CygnusX1 – Please read what I have actually written and refrain from using stupid smartass comments in response to my suggestion, musing and which might possibly confuse others.

I have been very clear about who Uncle Alan is and why William Shatner could reasonably play this character. There has never been just one Kirk – James T Kirk, but there have at least two others, his brother Sam and father George Kirk Snr. We never met their father, George (in TOS series), but we did see James Kirk grieve over his brother’s death in the Operation:Annihilation TOS episode. It is just as likely that there could be more male Kirks around, with an Uncle Alan being one of them.

This is what my idea is about – the James T Kirk we know from the prime timeline is dead, so are the fathers (both universes) and brother (prime universe). Alt. Kirk’s brother may be alive in this alt. universe, but he would be much the same age as the alt. (Pine) Kirk, obviously too young for William Shatner to legitimately play. Therefore, we look to an older generation male Kirk family member for William Shatner to play, where much of the intellect, various quirky (Kirky) mannerisms like unique vocal expression, are seen and heard…

This is not about making fun of William Shatner – anything but. I love the way TOS TV Kirk could express himself sometimes, along with phrases like asking Spock to “mind the store” etc… This is my homage to the wonderful (Shatner)Kirk character, which we could see a little something of in the next movie possibly.

End of the day – it’s not up to anyone of us. I just hope that Bob Orci and the other writers might give my idea some consideration, at least…

300. Uncle Alan - July 7, 2014

It’s science fiction, dear. Anything can happen, especially because multiple timelines have been introduced. Multiple dimensions are multiple, there are not just two, ever.

Wishful thinking on your part, tut tut.

You announced “Shatner is too fat, etc.”

I am curious what your “Etcetera” ” includes.

301. Cygnus-X1 - July 7, 2014

re: Uncle Alan (we’re so sorry)

Admiral Halsey notified me that he had to have a berth or he couldn’t get to sea. I had another look and I had a cup of tea and a butter pie….

302. Uncle Alan - July 7, 2014

Yes, yes, I know this…. “and a butter pie…Etcetera, Etcetera!”

Don’t mind if I do!

303. Uncle Alan - July 7, 2014

We’re So Sorry Uncle Albert
We’re So Sorry If We Caused You Any Pain
We’re So Sorry Uncle Albert
But There’s No One Left At Home
And I Believe I’m Gonna Rain

We’re So Sorry But We Haven’t Heard A Thing All Day
We’re So Sorry Uncle Albert
But If Anything Should Happen We’ll Be Sure To Give A Ring

We’re So Sorry Uncle Albert
But We Haven’t Done A Bloody Thing All Day
We’re So Sorry Uncle Albert
But The Kettle’s On The Boil And We’re So Easily Called Away

Hand Across The Water (Water)
Heads Across The Sky
Hand Across The Water (Water)
Heads Across The Sky
Admiral Halsey Notified Me
He Had To Have A Berth Or He Couldn’t Get To Sea
I Had Another Look And I Had A Cup Of Tea And Butter Pie

(The Butter Wouldn’t Melt So I Put It In The Pie)
Hand Across The Water (Water)
Heads Across The Sky
Hand Across The Water (Water)
Heads Across The Sky
Live A Little Be A Gypsy, Get Around(Get Around)
Get Your Feet Up Off The Ground
Live A Little, Get Around
Live A Little Be A Gypsy, Get Around(Get Around)
Get Your Feet Up Off The Ground
Live A Little, Get Around

Hand Across The Water (Water)
Heads Across The Sky
Hand Across The Water (Water)
Heads Across The Sky
Ooo-Ooo-

Here it is! I thought it was the “Pirates of Penzance,” but it is Sir Paul.

But, my dear boy, I am Uncle Alan. Uncle Albert is quite a differernt matter. Personally , speaking of pirates, I have always dreamed of an episode wherein Mr. Spock becomes a pirate.

304. Cygnus-X1 - July 7, 2014

Spock becoming a pirate…

Umm, at any rate, The Pirates of Penzance has been referenced in Trek at least twice (TNG and ST: INS). And that is how we bring it all right back home. ;-)

305. Cygnus-X1 - July 7, 2014

Correction: ST:INS referenced HMS Pinafore, another musical by Gilbert & Sullivan. TNG referenced Pirates of Penzance: http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Gilbert_and_Sullivan

And for the Trekmovie buffs, there was actually an article about this very topic back in 2010: http://trekmovie.com/2010/05/28/uss-pinafore-the-live-mashup-of-gilbert-sullivan-and-star-trek-video/

306. Marja - July 7, 2014

297 Uncle Alan

He’s feeling much better

307. B Kramer - July 7, 2014

“DOFP made over $ 700 M worldwide, it is the highest-grossing film in the 14-year-old X-Men series’ history.”

Great point Ahmed.

308. Jim Nightshade - July 8, 2014

Uncle Alan….thanks for the Macca flashback…,,made me wanna pull out ram? outta my complete mccartney collection n listen yet again…to the most amazing muscian of our n perhaps all time….just last year Paul won three grammies one best rock song with nirvana…released his NEW album which rolling stone said was the third best album of the year, toured constantly selling out arenas n venues like safeco field in seattle which we saw him at last year…the man plays nearly three hours without a break…at 72…he also was always a comics fan n must be a trek fan as his video queenie eye has both chris pine and alice eve in it…why does she have two first names anyway?

309. Uncle Alan - July 8, 2014

Mr. Nightshade, To me, Sir Paul at 72 is just a wee lad. We are in accord at his wonderfulness.

However, if he is “too old” we can send him on tour as a bloke named Uncle Mick in honor of Sir Paul whose middle name is Alan– no, I mean Mc is the beginning of Sir Paul’s surname. (Sorry, it’s not my old age, I have always been a bit Shattered).

I reckon Sir Paul should be mightily honored to be Uncle Mick now. You see, one just can’t be Paul McCartney when one is 72 and not as svelte, either, as at 20.

310. Uncle Alan - July 8, 2014

Cygnus X1, It’s like six degrees of Kevin Bacon!

Marja, He is feeling much better, and he thanks you for asking.

311. Uncle Alan - July 8, 2014

A theatrical note:

“Etcetera, Etcetera!” is from “The King and I.”

Old Uncle Alan’s memory still works.

312. Keachick (Rose) - July 8, 2014

Haha…doh…

313. Uncle Alan - July 8, 2014

Doh, a deer, a female deer?

It’s spelled “Doe, dear.”

314. Keachick (Rose) - July 8, 2014

Who are you, Uncle Alan? Somehow I do not think that you are William Alan Shatner nor James Kirk’s, Uncle Alan, relative of George Kirk, James’ father.

God forbid I actually try to present an original idea, character, scenario on this site, what with all the snark, sneering, and sarcasm. I guess this is what I have come to expect if I try to be specific in terms of character, scenes, dialogue etc. What is it – jealousy or something? I just don’t know… I mean anyone can criticize, so easy, lazy and cynical.

Anyway, maybe someone might appreciate my mini musings

315. Uncle Alan - July 8, 2014

My Chick, I am Uncle Alan, you created me. You. Created. Me.
You think my speech pattern might be some fun to have in the next film as if this is my one attribute. I am. your. creation come to life.

I fail to see why you are threatened to have Prime Kirk in a film, perhaps you are the jealous one. Cousin Willy (for I am Uncle Alan), who is known to you as Chris Pine, perhaps you subconsciously have doubts as to his having become James T. Kirk and thus you must construct a play wherein Prime Kirk is not Prime Kirk but is Uncle Alan.

I hear no one else with doubts but I suspect you harbor them.

Here. I am. Manifested. Enjoy!

316. Uncle Alan - July 8, 2014

Au contraire, I knew. George Kirk well.

317. TUP - July 8, 2014

I love that keachick’s credibility is just dropping like a lead balloon with this Uncle Alan idea and she doesnt even realise it. Stop digging.

Maybe they should cast William Shanter to play a Gorn.

318. Keachick (Rose) - July 8, 2014

Except that I have been the one who posted a scenario some time back which actually had the younger alt. Kirk (CP) and the older prime Kirk (WS) alive and well in the same room together.

I have not seen anything that any of you have done that tells of similar. In fact, I have not seen anything original, but you do manage to be sneering, facetious and insulting -Shatner play a Gorn? really? The fact that you would segue to such a facetious suggestion just shows how ridiculous and simple you are.

My credibility might be “dropping like a lead balloon” but I say that some of you never had credibility, in many respects, ever.

319. TUP - July 8, 2014

poor baby Keachick.

if you really want me to sit down and come up with a workable scenario to have William Shatner play Kirk Prime, Ill try to find to do it. But calling me simple is a very childish response when I have often been among the most logical posters here. Go back and read my posts on how STID could have been saved.

I was certainly equating Shatner as Uncle Alan to Shatner as a gorn because of the ludicrousness of both possibilities.

Quite frankly, The Gaurdian of Forever might be the only plot device that could solve the enormous issues BR created with the modern franchise. Someone else had suggested a GoF idea which I found very interesting (though I cannot recall details).

And I’ve long championed the idea that if the main cast is only contracted for three films, that BR should consider their films a trilogy and close it out with a generations-spanning epic that ‘fixes’ the timeline.

320. Harry Ballz - July 8, 2014

@317 TUP “Maybe they should cast ?William Shatner to play a Gorn”

Oh, great, just what we need……a FAT Gorn!

321. Uncle Alan - July 8, 2014

Mr. TUP,
I second an “umbrella event” epic for closing the timeline.

A 3 film contract it is, and I bet for several reasons, the 2 main actors would just as soon travel onward, Trekless thereafter.

The horse has left the barn as far as “people being sick of time travel/timelines” – which Ms Chick claims – things are a mess indeed regarding the timelines. Odd that it should be Prime Kirk on whom she slams the barn door declaring “too much time travel, can’t have that guy!”

Why not declare “too much time travel/confusing timelines” when the tribble saves nuKirk? Said tribble was available because apparently nuKirk and company had already discovered Cyrano with his tribbles as well as Harry Mudd and his ship, but Khan was not in a sleeper ship far out in space in the nuUniverse for Kirk to discover. Etcetera. Etcetera.

Why draw the line at Prime Kirk not being allowed to manifest after all of that confusing flotsam and jetsam?

Unify the timelines, I say! Then go forward with a powerful nunuTrek, liberated from JJ’s meanderings. Perhaps then a new television series would be in order.

322. Uncle Alan - July 8, 2014

#320
Mr. Ballz,

And shorter than most Gorn too.

323. Uncle Alan - July 8, 2014

So, all that had happened–tribbles, Harry Mudd – and yet we are led to believe that Kirk and Spock were on a very early mission together with Spock in the volcano and the ship in the sea. Slap happy writing, playing it loose and assuming no one will notice or care.

324. Disinvited - July 8, 2014

#322. Uncle Alan – July 8, 2014

Hey,it’s not as if he hadn’t taken on a female role before — so she’s laden with unlayed eggs. Or maybe the Gorn are like seahorses?

325. Uncle Alan - July 8, 2014

#324 Mr. Disinivited,

I’ve been disinvited myself a few times.

Yes, male seahorses carry the eggs, don’t they!

326. Keachick (Rose) - July 8, 2014

TUP – really? up yours! There, I’ve said it and you are repetitive and simple because you actually think, like so dummies five years ago, there is anything that needs “fixing” or could be legitimately. No wonder you can’t understand these stories or characters. You don’t get it and I doubt you ever will. Logic is definitely NOT one of your strengths.

Like IDIC, you are so full of it!

327. Jim Nightshade - July 8, 2014

the gorn is fat…remember the shatner vs gorn redux commercial for the video game? they both stopped fighting as they were too old n fat n tired they ended up sitting on the couch together haha

by the way if they made a video game based on that commercial it probably woulda been a better game than the one released haha…

328. Cygnus-X1 - July 8, 2014

310. Uncle Alan – July 8, 2014

Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon (Star Trek edition)

(1) Patrick Stewart (Star Trek:TNG) was in X-Men (2000) with…
(2)Anna Paquin was in Hurlyburly (1998) with…
(3) Kevin Spacey was in Glengarry Glen Ross (1992) with…
(4) Jack Lemmon was in JFK (1991) with…
(5) Kevin Bacon.

329. Jim Nightshade - July 8, 2014

hailing frequencies closed sir…watched skin of evil again on bbc tonite with the wonderfully beautiful hidef restoration….i remember hating this episode for killing off tasha one of my fave characters….didnt know then that denise crosby wanted out…in retrospect its better on the rerun..,,some interesting feelings on what is hatred n evil…still dont like the oilslick alien but the rest was pretty good….the ending with ysr saying goodbye to her colleagues friends via halogram still almost makes me cry…..id like that kinda character development in the new movie…the sense of family already strong…and crosby came back a few times to tng in great roles n episodes…make it so bob orci…this kinda character development is trek at its best….

330. Harry Ballz - July 8, 2014

@329

Jim Nightshade “make it so bob orci…this kinda character development is trek at its best”

Character development in NuTrek??

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

(wipes tear)

Oh, Jim, you are too funny!

331. Disinvited - July 9, 2014

#329. Jim Nightshade – July 8, 2014

“halogram” is that some new Angel texting ap? ;-)

332. Jim Nightshade - July 9, 2014

haha yup since when tashas final comments to her colleagues were played after she was dead then she was an angel so its a halogram heheh….

and harry my comments rewatching skin of evil did remind me of some good character development n if they are going to make the 50th ann…movie special more stuff like that tng ending would help to make it special, hey i can always dream huh…

333. Jim Nightshade - July 9, 2014

and harry my man we can agree to disagree but i feel both nutrek movies have enough character depth in em, in fact more n better than some trek movies….my main gripe is that both movies plots are far too similiar….and too much michael bay type action….but they gotta keep the attention spans of the young moviegoers so they will be fast paced action filled….but i gotta admit ive loved the epic visuals….trek will never look better so im enjoying it while it lasts…hey nutrek at least has much more depth n character dev. than any transformer michael bay films….

334. IDIC Lives! - July 9, 2014

TUP,
Apparently you simply are not able to comprehend the quantum cosmic ramifications, the highly advanced enlightened logic and Absolute Brilliance which STID is.

Keachick has given you this bad news: “No wonder you can’t understand these stories or characters. You don’t get it and I doubt you ever will. Logic is definitely NOT one of your strengths. Like IDIC, you are so full of it!”

Sorry, TUP but we are both full of something unspeakable. I am so grateful that at least the great mind of Keachick does understand the STID masterpiece.

Sarcasm? As we say in Iowa,”You bethcha!”

Yes, I’m back. I am sincere when I announce my next big departure – at the moment of the announcement, I am THAT disgusted and figure, I just do not need this in my life.

But there are more than one individual on this site, I enjoy most conversations, and I have been involved in Trekdom for years.

Next time I am THAT disgusted, and I assume, sadly, there will be a next time—-I should not be diva-like and depart. I will try to control my emotion, I will try to control……

Hat Rick, Sorry I snapped at you about your diplomatic status. No one says diplomats have to like their job or even accept it.

335. IDIC Lives! - July 9, 2014

Cygnus X1:
6 degrees of Kevin Bacon: Mazal tov!

336. TUP - July 9, 2014

Keachick – you’re hilarious. its people like you that make me realise bad Trek will always have an audience.

337. TUP - July 9, 2014

I suppose another option for a generations-spanning epic would be Q. Explaining him would require a lot less convolution than the last two movies needed to explain their plot points.

Perhaps the splitting of the universe caused some underlying issue with time/space. Movie opens with Q appearing to Captain Riker before Picard “walks in” (brought there by Q) cliff-hangering into the opening credits.

338. Harry Ballz - July 9, 2014

@333

True, Jim. Visually entertaining Trek is still better than NO Trek!

I appreciate your opinion.

339. Disinvited - July 9, 2014

#338. Harry Ballz – July 9, 2014

And by visually entertaining you mean?:

Arlene Martel
Barbara Luna
Frances Nguyen
Lee Meriwether
Grace Lee Whitney
Jeri Ryan
Terry Farrell
Catherine Hicks
etc.

340. Harry Ballz - July 9, 2014

@339

Yes, that part is nice, too.

341. Jim Nightshade - July 10, 2014

hey zoe n alice eve are nothin to sneeze at either….both gorgeous…i thought the controversy over alices undies shot a bit silly as trek has always had gorgeous women with clothes barely hangin on…as you have reminded us…ok so maybe tng had less of that but still…counselor troi could counsel me anytime…n 7 of 9 was more like 9 outta 10 to me…best skin tight outfit since catwoman heheh

and harry sir i getcha we are all entitled to our opinions…and i respect yours as always…and everyone elses too….i just wish as fans of trek we didnt have sooo many who strongly hate one aspect or another of trek…hard to help keep our fave franchise alive with so much derision in the ranks….i understand the reasons why though…face it movies are not treks ideal medium…tv is…we will never get the depth n diversity n quality the shows had with only two hours a movie…

342. TUP - July 10, 2014

The underwear scene was fine if played straight. It was shoe-horned in unnaturally just to have a hot chick in her underwear. it was like it was written by a couple of snickering teenage boys. Absolutely classless. The fact Kirk stands there jaw on the floor drooling was ridiculous. Im pretty sure if there was an incident in the military today where a male and female officer were responding to a crises which required them to quickly change into different outterwear, that the male officer wouldnt stand there staring at her. They would just change. because they are professionals.

Juxtapose that with Starship Troopers (a great film) where the male and female soldiers shower together naked and its treated like normal. So we get plenty of sexy nudity without the snickering because its not treated like “ohhhhh look, I can see her underwear, snicker snicker”.

343. IDIC Lives! - July 10, 2014

#342 TUP

Exactly. That scene treated Kirk like a backward adolescent.

This guy could not grow into being a great starship captain. We have been reminded, “Oh, he is young…”

Sorry, he simply does not have it.

As you once said, if they wanted to make these guys new characters with different names and call it the Star Trek franchise (ouch), it would have been better than this.

344. Cygnus-X1 - July 10, 2014

342. TUP – July 10, 2014

The underwear scene was fine if played straight. It was shoe-horned in unnaturally just to have a hot chick in her underwear.

That’s a good point. I wasn’t among those who was outraged by it—I think that was mainly women—but what problems people did have with that scene would have been eliminated by playing it as you suggest. The lover’s spat between Spock and Uhura with their commanding officer present is another scene in that same category of unprofessional behavior for those characters that stands out. And Kirk, as usual, is dumbfounded by the situation and hasn’t a clue what to do about it. Why this guy is Captain is anybody’s guess.

345. somethoughts - July 10, 2014

I would like to see a sci fi mystery for part 3

Remember all those cool tng episodes dealing with anamolies, soul eating time travelling aliens, worm holes, super strings, quantum mechanics, etc

The antagonist is the universe itself and the crew must solve puzzles to unlock a bigger quest tied into a moral and ethical dillema, maybe some social commentary on current events.

Ancient space beings, Long lost great space civs, example the wonders and mysteries of the cigar shape craft on the moon, the face on mars, pyramid structures on mars, asteroid belt remnants of planet, sun being used as a stargate, secret underground bases etc that kind of mystery and wonder.

Like what Scotty said in Into Darkness, captain we are explorers, this is a military operation.

346. somethoughts - July 10, 2014

just watched stid other day with good trek friend and his new gf, his gf loved it and I would say she is casual fan and enjoys film. I for one is grateful to be able to see new star trek film come out every few yrs, 2009 or stid when the film was done had a very happy feeling and enjoyed both films. I cant say the same for tsfs, tff, insurrection or nemesis so boborci dont let naysayers and haters drag u down, stay true to yourself and enjoy every second of directing, writing, producing etc

347. IDIC Lives! - July 10, 2014

#344 Cygnus X1
As a more than liberated female :-) I would have no trouble with the scene TUP envisioned with Carol changing into working clothes. Or both changing into working clothes, or whatever. It was Kirk’s reaction that I objected to.

And, frankly, I object to Carol’s “come ahead, go away” game too. That would be an ok approach for the rec room but NOT when briefing the captain about an immediate life or death mission/task (torpedoes!) Carol was “too cute” in attitude when in the middle of a crisis or on duty, period.

The scene wherein Spock declared, after being badgered and manipulated in the Mudd Shuttle, that he reckoned he showed no emotion because he cared too much and then Kirk letting the 2 lovers’ melodramatic moment continue as they all lost track of concentration–dismal!

If I were Cupcake and the other red shirt, I would have pulled my parachute (yeah, didn’t have one) and taken my chances landing in an obscure corner of Kronos rather than ride along with those idiots.

348. TUP - July 10, 2014

I also didnt object to the fact Carol was in her underwear. She’s stunningly gorgeous and Im cool with adult situations, sex, etc in my movies. I know the clueless filmmakers’ position was “well we had the men in their underwear too”. I recall Kirk being in his underwear (I think) when he leapt up from the threesome scene and I think the scene in Star Trek with the green woman. The difference ofcourse, was that was natural. No one stopped with jaws on the floor drooling. It was a guy getting out of bet in his boxers…perfectly normal.

The fact these professional writers dont know the difference is mind boggling.

And yes, the “spat” scene between Uhura and Spock was atrocious. I dont know who was more unprofessional, Uhura for her stereotypical emotional woman outburst, Spock for engaging her or Kirk for letting it happen. The second he said “Guys…” or whatever it was he said to stop it, it should have been stopped. He’s the freakin Captain.

349. TUP - July 10, 2014

307. B Kramer – July 7, 2014
“DOFP made over $ 700 M worldwide, it is the highest-grossing film in the 14-year-old X-Men series’ history.”

Great point Ahmed.

******Take two “generations” from a long time franchise with hardcore fans, fix films that got convoluted and “off track”, make it thrilling, epic, correct canon violations and set the franchise on course for the future. DOFP did it very well. STID writers cant hold a candle to DOFP writers.

350. Who cares - July 10, 2014

@TUP. As a fan of the X-Men comic books I would like to say that the entire X-Men movie series has been one pile of excrement after another. Days of Future Past is no exception, in fact it is the worst one yet. There is no continuity in the X-Men films at all, events in one film are almost always contradicted by the very next film, for example, in X-Men Origins: Wolverine, we see a bald Xavier, still walking, but in X-Men First Class we see Xavier paralyzed while he still has hair. Also in Wolverine we see a teen-age Cyclops and Emma Frost, yet in First Class we see Emma as being older than Xavier. In X-Men The Last Stand we see a flashback to Jean Grey’s recruitment where Xavier and Magneto are still friends and partners and Xavier is in his wheelchair, yet again in First Class we see Xavier paralyzed by the action of Magneto which ends their friendship.

Nothing in Days of Future Past fixes these mistakes, in fact it just makes them worse by piling more on top of them. That is NOT good writing, in fact it is some of the worst writing I have ever seen, at least if Bob had been a writer on the X-Men franchise he wouldn’t have sh-t all over continuity like that.

351. Cygnus-X1 - July 10, 2014

350. Who cares – July 10, 2014

What about the very first X-Men (2000)?

I haven’t watched it since it came out, but I recall it having been a good, meaningful treatment of the ostracized freaks theme.

352. Jim Nightshade - July 11, 2014

yeh i hear ya guys bout the undie scene n the spock/uhura bicker scenes..its funny how one little change coulda made the scenes work much better….

i liked xmen dofp mostly cause it wiped out that horrible 3rd x movie…without singer they ruined dark phoenix which was an epic cosmic story, reducing her to a crazy woman, and killing off major characters like cyke n prof x, and they didnt even do the death scenes well….first xmen movie was better than expected…second one even better then 3 came along…the only thing i liked in 3 was frasier crane as the beast….looked like he was back in the ending of days of future past…my brother said he hated days of future past even more than 3 cuz of the way they treated all women it? i dont remrmber that although it is mostly a sausage fest….thought storm had a major scene in it n if not for kitty prydes powers wolvy couldnt have gone back in time….anyone know what my bro was talking about?

it does look like their continuity in the 4 x movies coulda been better…..oh yah quicksilvers scene was incredibly entertaining..never saw a speed sequence done that way before….

353. TUP - July 11, 2014

Well let me just say Im by no means an X-men expert. But if DOFP was a terrible movie, then I hate to say that STID was abysmal because DOFP was a lot better than STID. And considering DOFP was working with two generations of X-men on film that it had to rectify and Bad Robot had a clean slate from which to begin, it makes their efforts even worse.

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