The state of Star Trek TV has been rapidly evolving since returning to the small screen with the first season of Discovery in 2017. Several live-action and animated Trek series have launched since then, and some have (or will soon) come to an end. In that context, the man who has overseen it all is commenting on that history and how he approaches what’s next.
Kurtzman: fans demand authenticity
Executive Producer Alex Kurtzman was the guest on the latest episode of The Ready Room, which mostly focused on the evolution of Star Trek: Discovery over the last five seasons as well as some of what it takes to make the show behind the scenes. The interview ended with host Wil Wheaton asking Kurtzman to reflect on the legacy of Discovery and how it spawned the Paramount+ Star Trek Universe of shows. The producer replied:
“It’s such an incredible gift because the truth is that when we started Discovery, I wasn’t thinking about that. I was just thinking about making a great show. And I fell so deeply in love with Discovery and with the process of making it. And I spent a lot of time that first season really kind of meditating on this incredible universe that has been around for so long, and how much more can be done with it. How many amazing stories are to tell. There’s really an infinite number of stories to tell.”
Alex Kurtzman with the season 1 cast and EPs of Star Trek: Discovery at San Diego Comic-Con 2017
Kurtzman then detailed how he approaches creating new Star Trek projects:
“I only want to make another Star Trek show if there’s something special to say. I don’t want to do it just to do more. I think that would be a huge disservice to Star Trek. It would be a huge disservice to the fans. I think the fans would feel it instantaneously. They would know this is not authentic because if there’s one thing that Trek fans know, it’s authenticity. So for me, it’s really just about figuring out a way to make sure that we take our time, we’re deliberate, we’re thoughtful, and we deliver on the promise of something different every time.”
Season 2 publicity photo for Strange New Worlds
We do have a picture of what’s coming in the shorter term after Discovery wraps up later this month. The Star Trek: Section 31 streaming movie starring Michelle Yeoh has already completed filming, but no release date has yet been set. The third season of Strange New Worlds is currently filming, and that will arrive next year. A fourth season has already been ordered. Paramount+ has also recently decided the upcoming fifth season of the animated adult comedy Star Trek: Lower Decks (due this fall) will be the last. The animated series Star Trek: Prodigy has moved from Paramount+ to Netflix, with the already completed season 2 expected sometime this year and no decision yet on if they will commission more. Finally, the YA-focused Star Trek: Starfleet Academy series is set to start filming later this summer, but that may not arrive until 2026.
First official image from Star Trek: Section 31
So even compared to the streaming wars peak of a couple of years ago, there is still a significant amount of Star Trek TV lined up for the next couple of years. And Kurtzman has been teasing there are more “surprises” to come. Of course, fans are already weighing in on that future including an effort to save Star Trek Lower Decks, and calls for Terry Matalas’ Star Trek: Legacy followup to Picard to get the green light, something Kurtzman recently said was out of his hands. Adding to all the uncertainty is the fate of Paramount+ which is in flux due to corporate drama at Paramount Global. May we live in interesting times…
For more from Kurtzman, watch his full interview below…
Keep up with news about the Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com.
I like most of what Kurtzman has given us, though Discovery has largely been a disaster. But Starfleet Academy just sounds bad. I hope to be proven wrong.
I agree, all new Trek shows were good to great, except Discovery which somehow keeps getting worse. I’m OK with Academy show, as long as Michelle Paradise and her crew of writers stay away from it.
I think the writers need to read “The Making of Star Trek” by Stephen E. Whitfield. Because they do things that stretch credulity in its own context. Example, that stupid cone of silence over Michael’s head.
I’ve been a Trek fans since the 1970s, and Discovery is my favorite Trek out of all of them. I don’t think it’s a disaster at all. I’m looking forward to seeing both the Section 31 movie and the Academy show.
Agreed. Discovery seems like a long, drawn out therapy session while trying to save the universe, yet again, from an unknown, never before seen, mysterious force.
Discovery still feels awful to me and it just doesn’t pull me in with all the issues it has. And the lack of discussion about it this season seems to suggest even fewer people are watching it now.
Zero interest in the Academy show as well.
I am however truly loving Prodigy though. That’s really fun and inviting and oddly enough there is less crying on that show than there is on Discovery and they are all kids lol.
I’m pretty convinced a lot less people are watching it this season as well I think I had this conversation with you somewhere but the lack of any reports, official or otherwise, on views anywhere is also very telling.
Meanwhile Paramount had no problems reporting the show Knuckles from the Sonic the Hedgehog movies was the most viewed original show on that site EVER!!! A show that premiered less than two weeks ago. That means it got more views not just than Star Trek shows but also all the Taylor Sheridan shows. That’s insane lol.
We can spin stuff until the cows come home but if Discovery was getting strong views right now we would be hearing about it.
The complete silence followed by the noticable drops in discussion about it probably makes clear it’s not going out as a big hitter in its final season as Paramount probably hoped.
But so happy you are loving Prodigy! 😀
One caveat to Knuckles though – they premiered every episode all at once. So that inflates the numbers versus shows that are once a week.
Yeah that’s true but to have so many to even watch it on that level still says a lot.
But maybe Paramount should think about just doing more full season releases with other shows.
There is also the possibility Netflix may do it with Prodigy and could bold well if they do.
If Netflix dropped season 2 of Prodigy in one day I would watch it all in one sitting haha.
I never even heard of Knuckles but that should tell you how old I am lol.
You and I already talked about this. Comments are even down on non-Discovery related topics on this board.
And once again I’m not talking about this board alone which you also stated you spend little time on other boards these days. Not sure how many times I can say this?
Comments, IN GENERAL, are down on other articles on THIS board AND others. It is not JUST comments about Discovery that are down… comments IN GENERAL. Not sure how much more clear I can be. But like a poor marksman, you keep missing the point.
Lol you can’t remotely prove that. And unlike you I’m on Reddit constantly and it’s just as busy as ever except when discussing this show.
Again it can’t be that surprising since even on this board people have said they have stopped watching the show. It’s going to have an effect.
Oh boy! You’re on Reddit?!? Who cares.
It is very easy to measure, if Anthony shares the website traffic.
Dude you’re the one arguing about it lol. And since you literally told me you only spend time here then you clearly don’t even know. 🙄
I’m not sure why this is exactly a huge surprise? The show did get cancelled right? I’m guessing a big reason is due to less people watching it among others.
Again when people on this very board have said they stopped watching the show then yeah it’s probably another reason less are talking about it.
That’s possible… right?
Yeah in some ways it’s a little surprising but other ways it really shouldn’t be. The show was cancelled. It just probably speaks to the people who gave up on the show long ago and didn’t return this season.
Ironically this is the best it’s ever been for me so far at least. I thought maybe word of mouth would get more people onboard and give it a chance but it’s still very light everywhere.
Picard season 3 this is not! 😂
I know others who stopped watching it as well as I have. But it’s not a huge group or anything just a few people I know online.
It doesn’t mean it’s not being watched but I don’t feel anywhere close to it’s first early seasons either. Many have seem to have lost interest in this show long ago so it’s not a surprise if true.
And yes absolutely adore Prodigy now. I’m nearly finished with it and on episode 17. At least Discovery got five seasons which is good. Many people like me never gave a Prodigy a chance at all and doomed its fate early it seems.
It’s funny you mention that about Prodigy because believe it or not I predicted well over a year ago that show was most likely getting cancelled based on the same lack of discussions for it everywhere as I’m seeing with Discovery today.
I said many times I was worried about the shows future because it was very clear few people were discussing it in real time like they were the other shows. Of course it’s not a direct correlation but it’s usually telling how engaged people are with a show is how much it’s trending online, especially for genre shows.
I was hoping among hope I would be proven wrong and I actually predicted Discovery would probably be cancelled as well at the time but for different reasons. For Discovery it was just an older show now and more costly. However there was less people discussing the show in season 4 compared to the first three as well but just not as obvious as it is now.
But I wasn’t surprised when either of them got cancelled. I was hoping once Discovery did get cancelled and with Picard maybe that would be a good sign for Prodigy and to keep around the others a bit longer especially since they were already deep into season 2.
Sadly it was not to be. But I want to make this clear this is not me trying to make Discovery look bad or anything. I was just reading the tea leaves then so to speak as I’m doing now. And as I have made clear many times Prodigy is my favorite show but I was always doubtful how many were actually watching it halfway through first season.
Me and my brother stopped watching DSC after season 2. Most of my friends and family didn’t even get that far.
I know DSC had difficulties behind the scenes in those early seasons but my god they are bad. I often see comments online that say the later seasons are worse which I genuinely find unfathomable.
I like old school sci fi like TOS, TAS, Outer Limits, Sapphire and Steel through to modern stuff like The Expanse and Strange New Worlds but DSC… I wouldn’t watch it if you paid me!
For me season 2 was the last time I have seen an entire season of it. I have watched both seasons 3 and 4 but never finished either of them either.
I may try and watch season 5 when it’s over but truly have no real desire to do it. It will mostly depend on how well received it is I guess.
And yes I think I like more old school Trek like TOS, TAS and TNG. I also grew up with the Outer Limits and loved that show too!
I would say for season 5 you may like it more but I doubt it. Some of the same problems are definitely there and the last few episodes have been shaky for me personally but others really liked them.
But since you clearly didn’t like the first episode I’m not sure if you will like the rest of it
Oddly I partly like this season because it feels like it’s doing something similar to what Picard season 3 did and leaned more on Star Trek canon and it’s history while serving up a decent mystery on it’s own.
It’s still nowhere close to Picard season 3 but it’s decent at least. But Discovery usually drops the ball by the halfway mark where we are right now so I’m not going to sing it’s praises until we get to the very end.
I’m also happy you’re watching and enjoying Prodigy now. That’s pretty cool! 😎
Not sure how you can say anything about the Academy series. We know absolutely nothing about it except that it will take place in the Discovery time period and that it will feature Starfleet Academy. We know that it *MIGHT* take place on Earth – but nothing else has been confirmed. So you are saying you hate the *idea* of an Academy show? Well, without anything really known about the sow, you are already going in with a bias. You are pre-determined that it will be bad.
Based on what I see others mention when discussing the Academy show for the people who don’t like it is both the premise and/or when it’s set. I’ve seen a lot of people calling it either the CW or Harry Potter in space.
I don’t think this is really a surprise, the idea of an Academy movie or show has always seem more divided by fans wanting it all the way back in the 90s.
For the record I’m cautiously optimistic about it.
There is not enough information about it to, neither optimistic nor pessimistic. But people are already negative about a premise. People really don’t have anything better to worry about?
Is this your first time on the Internet? This happens everywhere all the time. “Hey did you hear they are making another Star Wars movie starring Rey?” “REALLY?? More Disney Stars Wars starring the Mary Sue? No thanks.” Or ,”Hey did you hear Christopher Nolan is making a James Bond movie?” “OMG really??? That sounds awesome. Can’t wait!”
C’mon this is getting silly now. Yes most people won’t truly make up their minds on anything until they watch it but you can have have an initial reaction over hearing the basic premise of anything. It’s done all the time every single day by millions of people.
*sigh* do I have to explain negativity and its impact for you?
That wasn’t your argument though. You literally said ANY impressions including positive ones so what am I missing?
Dude I got you are feeling a little burnt out from how people discuss this show. I get it but as it’s been explained many times A. People can express themselves anyway they want and B This is far from a new thing here after all the bizarre tangents over it.
I love reading your thoughts and opinions and usually agree. But you are sounding a bit burnt out on these boards. I get it but no one is being forced to be here either right. This is just supposed to be fun. If you feel it’s too negative than just take a break or find a more positive place to post for awhile.
I’m not trying to tell you what to do but complaining about the complaints has never worked out. Ever. One infamous poster learned that the hard way very recently with so many bizarre tangents over it.
And as I have ALWAYS said here it would be nice if there was at least an ignore button but since this has never been remotely addressed once although it’s been stated hundreds of times now for years clearly they don’t have an issue what anyone post here right?
Again, if they wanted people to be less negative they could find ways to to that today…or 15 years ago.
You can’t blame random people just showing up to give their opinions on stuff… you have to blame the people who actually created and runs this site if you are this bothered, correct?
“This is far from a new thing here after all the bizarre tangents over it.”
Oops this wasn’t aimed at you at all. The :bizarre tangents’ line was referring to someone else but I oddly misplaced the wording here.
For me I just don’t get this insistance of the Academy idea since the early 90s. I mean yeah I kind of get it maybe it is an easier or cheaper concept to do, but I am sure there has to be different perhaps even cheaper ideas out there. It just seems to me that they are just too insistent on this Academy idea.
People want different. But when something different is given to them, they want familiar.
People need to be more open to fresh ideas. An Academy series (or movie) has been tossed around since after The Search For Spock. Trek IV was initially talked about as a prequel at the Academy. They went in a different direction.
And honestly, we have had TNG, VOY, DISC all show glimpses of Starfleet Academy. I do not see how it would leave a bad taste in anyone’s mouth. The episodes were very well received.
They are insistent on the Academy idea because it was green lit and set are being made, Scripts are being written, actors being cast… soooooo…
Maybe people need to wait until they actually see and hear more before judging?
“People want different. But when something different is given to them, they want familiar.”
This has always been the problem with a lot of Star Trek fans and been a running joke for decades.
They want something different.. but yet the same. It’s always been this very weird dichotomy but you hear it over and over again.
And as both SNW and Picard season 3 proved many people really do just want the same stuff they always gotten at the end of the day. I don’t doubt people will be into something different if it’s GOOD but that’s always a riskier proposition. You give them their comfort food like those two shows have proven and you don’t have that many problems.
As for the Academy show I definitely understand people’s skepticism about it but hopefully it will win most over if it’s done right.
LOL so true! 😂
And I’m guilty of this as well. When I first started watching Star Trek my feeling was I would love any show…as long as it was similar to TNG lol. A big reason I couldn’t get into shows like DS9 and even Enterprise at the time.
I remember people used to say Enterprise felt more like TNG but I didn’t feel that at all. But I only been watching a few years at that point which always proves how different people can see things depending on how long they been watching it.
Now I’m more open minded today but I still wish we had more Star Trek like Terry Trek. Difference is I’m OK if we get other things too as we been getting.
All I can say for myself I ALWAYS hated the Academy idea. It just does nothing for me
And because it takes place in the same time as Discovery gives me even less interest… especially if Tilly is going to be on it which they are obviously setting up to be
But same time I always stay open minded. I was convinced I was going to hate LDS and that’s my favorite show in NuTrek right now and Discovery season 5 is at least decent. Nothing too cringe yet.
So maybe my mind can be changed. I’m just happy Michelle Paradise isn’t running it. Ugh
Absolutely. We’ve only just scratched the surface.
Here are shows I’d like to see:
* following people traveling in space in a profession other than Starfleet: artists, actors, musicians, journalists, politicians, doctors, etc.
* a show similar to TNG’s “First Contact,” in which a planet learns about the existence of aliens and that the UFP exists.
* a show that takes place in the 2160s, as the UFP is just being formed, the people forming the government hire historian(s) to consult on the project, which allows that story to parallel with the unification of Earth after First Contact, in both timelines, we see the effects of the decisions made by the new government on the general public. ENT or First Contact characters could be in it.
* an Earth-based series at any point in Trek history.
* a show set on a colony.
* West Wing: Rom
I’d also be interested in spinoffs such as:
* Wesley and Kore as Travelers
* Rios, Teresa, Ricardo, and Guinan fighting for medical equality in the 2020s.
* Jurati’s adventures over the course of the 400 years where she crafts her own version of the Borg collective while staying out of history’s way, waiting to emerge and reintegrate with the rest of the galaxy.
* Literally anyone on La Sirena, working for the Fenris Rangers, similar to the fanfilm series Star Trek: Aurora. I suppose Worf and Elnor are free agents and have familiarity with the ship. If it’s the two of them, it could be a way for Worf to come to terms with his previous hate for Romulans, through training Elnor. I would have originally preferred Seven and Raffi, but they appear to be occupied with the Enterprise.
* a show about Book’s relief efforts after the DMA attacks.
* a show or miniseries that ties up the loose ends from “Calypso.” My theory is that, if “Calypso” wasn’t one of Zora’s dreams, the Discovery’s jump duplicated the ship, and that copy has been dormant and adrift up until the time when our Discovery emerged.
I actually like most of these! 🙂
Several more show suggestions: A Trek medical show, Fenris Rangers show and The Adventures of Captain Shaw.
Absolutely awful suggestions there.
A Wesley and kora show has to be the worst idea ever!
Wes yes, Kora no – terrible character and not great acting either
Yeah wasn’t a big fan of Kora either but sadly like so much of season 2 how she was developed was lacking to say the least.
Those are cool. I always wanted a show or mini-series based on Surak and how he brought logic to Vulcan and dealing with the exodus of the Romulans. Also, another show based on the adventures of Kahless in ancient Klingon. The hook for both of those would be time-traveling Starfleet historians witnessing these events.
Yeah yeah JUST GIVE US THE LEGACY SHOW ALREADY PARAMOUNT!!!!
But we know this studio has less money for Star Trek these days. He can flower it up as much as possible but when four out of your five shows are cancelled, the last three in one year alone, things aren’t humming along as he’s trying to make it out to be. And let this sink in, four shows gone, but only one official replacement so far.
i suspect we won’t even hear about another show, Legacy or otherwise, until whoever the new overlords of the studio will be and they can just chuck it if the franchise isn’t pulling enough of its own weight.
There are plenty of Trekkies like myself who are not thrilled by the idea of Legacy.
I don’t need to keep seeing sequels to characters from 30 years ago. And more of the same, rather than something truly different and new, is not exciting to me.
I liked the idea of a Seven/Fenris Rangers show. But Seven, Captain of the Enterprise? Meh.
As much as Picard seasons 1-2 weren’t all that great, and often bad, I appreciate that they tried something different than just a sequel to TNG.
Personally I like when decades-old franchises take risks and those “big swings” that so many banal Trekkies hate.
If we got all the stuff fans are asking for you’d all hate it, and it would almost certainly be terrible.
Hey that’s cool… but I really really want it personally!
And I have no problem if they tried other things, it’s why I love both LDS and PRO. I was super excited about the first two seasons about Picard as well. It’s not because it was different I didn’t like it. I didn’t like it because it was bad… really bad. 🙄
And I have faith if Matalas made it. Sure can still be bad but I trust him much more over others.
Very much agree dear!
I still very much want Legacy but Star Trek seems to be greatly slowing down these days. Although I never watched it even I was a bit surprised LDS got cancelled because fans seem to really like it. There is way more outcry over its cancellation than there was for Discovery’s.
Sadly the problem seems to be none of these new shows are attracting new fans like the older shows did. Even my long time Trek friends only seen a few of the new shows. For so many to be cancelled is telling. I remember the big shock when Enterprise got cancelled. It felt like such a big deal. Now it’s feeling very common unfortunately.
All true. I think a lot of things are currently in an impasse right now. Star Trek isn’t going anywhere but same time I don’t know if it’s going to be the leading franchise either like it originally was through 2021 at least.
This year could sadly be the most Trek we will ever have going forward now that Discovery, Prodigy and LDS are having their swan songs and SNW will probably be the only new Trek in 2025 unless they push to get SFA up and running by then.
I still think the Legacy show will ultimately happen but as said probably not until Paramount gets a new buyer and they decide the level of commitment they want to make to the franchise.
As far as Enterprise I’m still convinced way more people watched that show in its last season than any season of Discovery.
But yeah things are very different today
I think what so many seem to think of those of us that want Legacy, is for the TNG cast to continue on, and for it to match the tenor of Picard S3. I like the idea of characters we know popping in to a new show on occasion, but more than that, I want new adventures, with the new crew, and I think Malalas’ philosophy of how to approach Star Trek and the characters is the right one to propel that forward. He has demonstrated that he gets it.. while not letting his fandom run away from him just so he can play in the sandbox of his youth. He has the right reverence.. which is something no one on SNW has. I want the promise of SNW, in a new show.
Precisely!
You have it completely correct. I don’t want Legacy because I want to have Riker or Worf back, I just want that tone and philosophy of Star Trek again. I would’ve been just as happy if we got a Shaw show instead of a Seven one.
It’s a little frustrating to keep reading we just want a Legacy show because we expect it to be filled with TNG characters when that can’t be farther from the truth. I expect some to show up but I’m really excited to see the new characters explore this era as long as Matalas is behind it because he seems to want shows where its about adults and real drama again.
I also think for other people they just want more stories in the 25th century as well, with or without legacy characters. I remember Matalas saying 25th century is Star Trek in the present day and I completely agree with that personally.
Agreed on all counts. I wouldn’t care where they go if they just get Terry to run it. That’s the key to whatever concept they go with.
Yep this is how I feel as well. I love the TNG crew will always be my favorites but I don’t need them in Legacy either. I just want more of what Matalas did with the universe in general. He gets it unlike people like Abrams who never cared but they gave him $200 million anyway to make inane action movies.
Matalas grew up with it and just a great writer in general. I just want more of that and I like SNW, LDS and PRO too.
I have said it many times myself I’m really just interested in another 25th century show end of the day and will take it in form basically.
I think majority of fans would.
In this instance Matalas just gave us a blueprint most people seem into the idea after watching some of these characters all season and wants to see some kind of continuation on that.
As far as this constant discussion Legacy is just apparently Picard season 4, I don’t get it either? From what I can tell the overwhelming majority of people who wants the show seems fully aware it’s not dealing with the TNG cast as the main leads and yet it keeps getting brought up as a reason not to do the show. 🙄
No one is suggesting it’s TNG 2.0. Matalas has made it abundantly clear what the show is if ever got made…it ain’t that.
Lastly, I consider the 25th century present day Star Trek myself. But since this is all fiction people can consider whatever time period they want obviously. If you consider the 22nd century present day and everything after that from TOS on the future as an example nothing stops people from believing that.
Someday I hope somebody does a book, article, or documentary about what really happened behind the scenes in developing Discovery. Why did Bryan Fuller get fired? Why did the show go through multiple showrunners in the first seasons?
We now have some of the historical perspective on why similar things happened in the beginning of TNG.
I am also curious about how big of an involvement (if any) Nick Meyer had at the beginning and development of Discovery.
I’m pretty sure he was a part of the writers room, and got some producing credit.I believe he had some strong input in the first two episodes on the Shenzou, and key story points of his survived into the finished product. When Fuller was ousted, he was sidelined if not outright removed as well. He showed up at a couple of conventions or something to help promote it, so it wasn’t completely negative. As I recall, he was pretty business like about it… not bent out of shape, but he was honest about it.
I think we know some of the issues.. I think the big one was Fuller having another show in development, and having divided interests. I don’t think that’s the only reason, though and it’ll be interesting to hear some detail on that.
Yeah I would be very curious about what happened with Fuller and how that impacted the development of the series. Some things I think we know came from him, the visual changes to things like Klingons and ship design stuff, unless I’m misremembering.
Also IIRC the showrunners after fuller got fired because of going over budget on season two premiere and being terrible and yelling at the writers?
I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s eventually a third volume to the 50 Year Mission behind-the-scenes duology covering 2009-2034. I suppose the title “50 Year Mission” wouldn’t quite work anymore though haha.
Yes, exactly. There are infinite stories. Which is why it’s so frustrating that nearly all of the Kurtzman era has been built upon hamfisted references, callbacks, and legacy characters, and relied on fans emotion connection to those to get them invested in a weak story and weak characters.
It makes sense in the context of Picard and to some extent Lower Decks but why is Discovery taking a trip down memory lane with those memories aren’t their own?
I don’t care about Legacy, but I would like to see a Lagasse series.
BAM!
If you’re going to plagiarize Daren Dochterman, at least properly cite him.
Well, I’ve never heard of Mr. Dochterman before now. I came up with that bit of goofiness independently, with that chef character from Futurama in mind.
Have a good day, officer.
My apologies.
Oh no problem. And sorry for the ‘officer’ snark. LLAP.
I think Star Trek has lost its way. What made it special and unique is gone. The allegorical story telling, the positive vision of the future, the mix of science and exploration. I have no interest in Section 31, nor in a Starfleet Academy show.
Like a lot of fans, I enjoyed Picard Season 3. But this seems to have been a flash in the pan.
I agree about losing its way. Just the other day I realized that the exploration aspect has largely disappeared. Star Trek crews still discover, but usually because they are thrown at it, not because they ventured out to get to see new challenging things to be fascinated. It would be fun again to see a crew that has a sense of wonder, discovering something that nobody has seen before, something scientific. SNW comes close to that, but I think every ST show should spearhead that idea. Remember all the astro-or other phenomenons that came up during TNG that posed a moral or otherwise challenging dilemma for characters? Maybe an academy show is the best vehicle to get back to that again.
Kurtzman is all about making Star Trek accessible to a new generation of viewers. Do some more Sci along with the Fi.
TOS used real science fiction writers, but that is probably considered too expensive nowadays, so we get a small room full of cut-rate clowns and you get what you pay for showing up in the quality of the shows. This really sad, especially when you only get 10 episodes instead of 30.
And although SNW is closest to the Star Trek we miss, the show feels more fantasy and less sci fi. Instead of good sci-fi we are getting Buffy style stories like the musical.
We get a character assassination of Spock, as he is ridiculed and all the human characters are teaching him and responsible for the stuff that made Spock, the character we grew up loving on TOS.
The dialogue is too modern and I think the current writers don’t grasp a chain of command.
DSC has crew members dealing with emotional issues during a crisis, moments that they have to be put aside.
If a bomb was having to be defused and there were mere minutes, you wouldn’t stop to have a discussion over a relationship or a job
Like all modern, serialized stories today, it’s more character than plot driven.. more like a soap opera than sci-fi. Even with the episodes I like, I find the rewatchability factor to be low. That’s because of two things. The characters aren’t that interesting, and there is a central conceit each season, that once revealed, makes these season long arcs not very interesting either. Without that desire to discover the season’s mysteries… there really is very little there.
There isn’t even much to the main character since they decided to make her perfect in all things. There’s really no struggle, hardship, or failings for the character to endure and overcome to keep the audience invested in her journey from mutineer to the greatest captain of all time. Those two points in her life should have been the bookends for the entire series. The idea of her character was compelling, but they really messed up with her development.
They fabricate conflict and imperfection to blatantly show how great she is at rising above. No subtlety or nuance. I hate it.
I agree with this. I just rewatched Discovery seasons 1-4 in preparation for season 5. I was ok, I guess, with how they handled the season premise, but I didn’t buy the premise. Season 1 (Klingon war and Spock’s sister we’ve never heard of), season 2 (red angel), season 3 (the burn – was actually ok until we got to the solution) and season 4 (giant aliens beyond the barrier and rogue Book). Didn’t like the premise. I’ll admit I’m actually enjoying season 5, and I think it’s because I like the premise, I always thought “The Chase” deserved a follow up.
100%. Although I thought species 10-C were a cool idea. But it’s not an original one. Not sure if if was Arthur C Clarke, or Carl Sagan or someone else that theorized those type of creatures initially as possible inhabitants of the gas clouds of Jupiter.. but they lacked sentience. Trek gave them that for this story. I kind of liked where they ended up, even though I didn’t like how they got there, if that makes sense. Season long arcs are tough because the idea at the end needs to be big enough to match your imagination. It hasn’t ever been on modern Trek for me.
Clarke wrote it in the 2010 novel (not sure if it was totally his idea, but that’s where I first came across it)
I saw it in a National Geographic book prior to that novel, and thought it was cool to see it used in Clarke’s sequel to 2010… and it was a great use of a scientific hypothesis of how life could exist.. cool to see it used in DSC as well.
Watching a TOS episode and Berman-era episode back-to-back is jarring, but the biggest similarities were the professionalism and intelligence of the crew. We were watching smart people doing smart things in weird situations. However, the Kurtzman-era Trek does not display this. They “say” they are smart, but it they are pretending. And professionalism is out the door. I agree that Picard Season 3 had that in spades, but it was, as you said, a “flash in the pan.”
I think the important bit you mention here is “they say”. This is exactly true, characters seem to act according to other characters. I mean do you really need that much praise for basically just doing your job. Yes, its good to get the occasional praise or pat in the back, but to constantly praise or be emotional about something that is basically your job seems a bit childish to me honestly. This is why I appreciated characters like Shaw or Jellico, sometimes you gotta stop with the bs and just get the job done. We knew Kirk, Spock and Bones were best of friends, but we never saw and didn’t need to see them complementing each other all the time on the bridge or saying how much they love each other. It was obvious they loved each other, it was seen through their actions, we didn’t need to constantly hear it mentioned or like you say the characters didn’t need to say it. Saying something too much doesn’t make it happen, in fact the opposite it cheapens the intended emotion or effect.
I remember sitting with my friends watching a talk show and most the guests were gushing with complements for each other, and we started laughing and one of my friends said, “No one here would ever act like that, what a bunch of phonies.”
You nailed it, James. Good post.
I couldn’t agree more.
Agreed! The absence of allegorical science fiction and believable characters was a deal breaker for me too. And I’ve had to accept that the Star Trek I fell in love with no longer exists. But, if people like Disco and SNW, or want to watch S31 and SFA, that’s cool. It’s not for me. It’s not my canon. But, I do love LDS/Prodigy.
I wouldn’t say it lost it’s way moreso the mandate had slightly changed.
Again you could really see that in the early days of both Discovery and Picard. It was feeling less like a show of exploration and ideas and more one of character driven stories and big villains. It all felt too dark and not enough optimism and yeah, discovery.
There was a big debate a few months back when some people thought Discovery was a better show in its first two seasons than now. On one hand I kind of understood that argument but on the other completely disagreed with it because the show just felt too far away from what gave Star Trek it’s heart. I’m not talking about how visually jarring it felt or way too advanced for it’s time period, it just didn’t feel like Star Trek enough. It was trying to feel like a more contemporary show which I understood but it just missed the mark of what Star Trek was. It was spending waaay too much time trying to be edgy instead of intriguing or engaging.
Now season 2 was certainly better and it’s clear they listened to the complaints but the show still relied too much on on it feeling dark and big villains like Control. There was still a lack of exploration a show literally named Discovery should have.
But yeah I do feel TPTB at the time felt Trek as a franchise just felt out of step with show’s today. It can’t be more TOS, TNG or ENT, it has to be more dark and serialized to grab people today. Even other fans thought you can’t do that anymore. It has to be more like Lost or GOT. And yeah it had very mixed results to say the least.
But I do feel we have more of the Trek of old again. Yes maybe not as strong as it should be but certainly an improvement over the first few years and I mean all the new shows not just Discovery.
And I always wonder even if people feel these things could be stronger overall I personally feel LDS, PRO and definitely SNW is doing that. Yes can all be better but they all inherently feel like Star Trek of old to me.
“I only want to make another Star Trek show if there’s something special to say. I don’t want to do it just to do more. I think that would be a huge disservice to Star Trek.”
Sounds like he’s directly referencing Legacy, which basically is just “more”.
And an elderly starship crew is definitely not ‘authentic’.
Kurtzman would have been better off saying nothing. It’s laughable just how clueless this braintrust is.
But it isn’t laughable how TPTB keep writing him checks and letting him soil the playing field.
He’s a producer.. saying producer things. He gets the checks because he delivers content on time and within budget.. not because he keeps the fanbase happy. If they’re making money, he’ll be retained.
Yes, exactly Heyberto.
I say the same thing about Trek fans on Internet forums like this every day. Including right now.
The problem is he didn’t really say anything anyway. I’m not even sure what was the point of bringing him on other than to say “We’ll make more shows when we can.” That was the gist. And we all know he has very little control of that since he admitted before green lighting Legacy is out of his hands.
Exactly.. but I also feel like he’s just drumming up a word salad with no real understanding of what makes Trek authentic. Which isn’t a surprise or revelatory. When he and Orci wrote the Kelvin movies, he was the one who knew nothing/very little about Trek. What he does know is just what these creatives that work for him tell him.
if Tilly is not in Starfleet Academy I will watch, if she is in it this may be the first live action show i pass on, she is insufferable
My god just give us a series set in the TOS Movie Era! It’s all I ever wanted.
They’re not going to do that, because it makes total sense. The whole period between the TOS movie era and TNG has been blatantly ignored.
It makes sense, despite the vast majority of fans saying they should stay away from sequels.
Look, you’re better off saying nothing, it’s incredible how clueless you are, to quote another commenter.
Paine’s comment makes total sense, and as usual, is far from clueless. To your comment, I’d say it doesn’t have to be a sequel to what we’ve seen, just stories told in that era with that look and maybe even that sensibility.
Many thanks, Kmart.
I actually got a good chuckle out of this, thanks.
It is interesting to see where they choose to mine the past, and where they don’t. BUT… it seems you may get your wish with when the Section 31 movie is set. For me, I’m much more interested in eras that aren’t directly tied to the past. The reason I wanted SNW was because of how they got Captain Pike right in Disco S2, and I thought they’d be focused on exploration and new adventures. But I’d much rather seem them push forward as opposed to filling gaps.
Yes its a big gap 75 years if I’m correct
I like
if you wanted to do the prime Enterprise crew, then a serious (not Lower Decks….) animated series would be the way to go. Honestly, the animation is probably the thing to do regardless; it would let you keep the TMP aesthetic without it feeling wildly outdated in live-action. Same for the TNG era – could revisit TNG post-Nemesis but pre-Picard – or a cell-shaded Titan show (adapt the novels!) would be great
I liked it when the ship was also a main character we cared about.
TOS and TNG got this.
Leonard Nimoy understood one of the Star Trek Formulas.
The show’s formula involved using the ship’s technology and the crew’s skills to solve the dilemmas creatively.
That’s why TWOK worked so well, although it cost Spock his life.
Technology, Vulcan mysticism and the crew’s sacrifice eventually saved him.
We need HEROS along with mirrors. We want to see ourselves in the crew and what we all wish we could aspire to be.
Strong female characters are important. It does a disservice to them when male characters get emasculated to make the female crew look competent. This is OBVIOUS in DSC. As a father of a daughter and grandfather of a toddler, I want them to see that they can be whoever they aspire to be. I wonder who my 1-year-old Grandson would look up to if he gets interested in Star Trek.
Taylor Sheridan, the creator of Yellowstone, understands this.
All the male and female characters are fleshed out; they have their strengths and flaws.
I think that’s why it’s a juggernaut. I rewatch Yellowstone more than I do DSC. To be clear, I wake up every Thursday at 3:00 AM to watch the latest DSC episode. I’m a fan of it.
We need some of the main characters to have a shorthand with each other: A glance, a word or a shrug.
Case in point: Pike was caught flat-footed in the S2 cliffhanger.
It should have been Una: “Orders, Captain?”
Pike and Una glance at each other, and she and Pike know what he must do. It’s unspoken.
Una does not need to repeat herself: “Orders, Captain?” We should have seen Pike turn to give the impossible order and…
“TO BE CONTINUED…”
Leaving him there frozen doesn’t make sense and denigrates his character.
SFA is strictly a vehicle to bring the coveted younger college demographic into the show.
I applaud it. I’ll watch it to support the franchise
A lot of us watched TNG through our college years.
I keep my Par+ sub active all year long and tell Par+ why.
Trek is expensive to produce, and I understand that. But when they see a one—or two-month sub, they binge Trek? It’s hard, business-wise, to justify keeping any expensive show in production.
I also have friends who work on the various Trek shows.
The other thing about the Enterprise as a ship we cared about.. it helped that we had so much time with it.. that we were ourselves endeared to it much as Kirk was. His reverence for it was passed on to us, and that was cool. The problem with destroying it in the Kelvin movies was, we never felt that Kelvin Kirk gave a crap about it. There was one little pause in his voice as he gave the command to abandon ship in ST:Beyond. Certainly the creatives behind it took it on faith that it would mean something to the audience, but it really didn’t. Watching that ship descend into the atmosphere over that great Giachinno score meant nothing to me. It rang hollow.
“A lot of us watched TNG through our college years.” – and yet there was nary a college or anything really related to anything like that, yet it still drew you in with good cast and good stories. No gimmicky pandering…fancy that.
I’m upset that they canceled Lower Decks…maybe Netflix will get it like Prodigy (assuming we ever see that…if only I was in France!). Section 31 doesn’t sound super interesting to me. Starfleet Academy in the 32nd century is definitely not for me. If I was gonna see a Starfleet Academy show I’d want it to be about characters I care about, like a young Kirk or Picard or something like that.
I’ve enjoyed Strange New Worlds though…it’s been great…Disco not so much, and even this new season, which might be one of the better ones, lacks much depth…but him saying that Star Trek needs to be authentic just kind of urks me for some reason. Mostly because so far all of the authentic Treks have been getting canceled. I mean Prodigy and Lower Decks by the way. Despite being animated they have been the best. And of course although I did enjoy Picard, it’s over as well. Honestly I don’t have much interest in Legacy assuming it’s gonna be about Seven of Nine and Captain Picard Jr. I have no interest in that…I’d rather see a Q comedy series…I’m serious…that actually might be good. And if it’s section 31 I’d want Sloan in it. We’ll see…I hope they don’t dissapoint.
Aviod any space cadet shows at all cost.
There are indeed an infinite number of stories to tell.
This is why it’s baffling as to why they take 10 episodes to tell a story that should only take 2 hours.
Flaming dumpster fires.
Not even 1st season next gen got this much toxic heat.
Just kill star trek for 10 years, then bring it back when people have buried this pdst era in the past.
For the love of god, execs, don’t do this.
In a way, it makes sense. When Enterprise came out, fans dumped all over it. “Worst Trek ever!” “Bacula is the worst actor for the role” “horrible writing” ” they don’t get Trek” “How come the ship looks more advanced than TOS” should I go on?
Trek disappears for 10 years. No Trek anywhere except fan series. Then all of a sudden… you get people loving ENTERPRISE.
Trek should be stopped after the current run of shows hit their ending. Let Trek disappear for another 10 years. I am sure people will be singing the praises of DISCOVERY when some new iteration of Trek pops up and people say that DISCOVERY is soooo much better.
Honestly, Trek fans have no idea what they want anymore. Trek fans have now officially past Star Wars fans as the whiniest.
I have said this very same thing myself and I think Discovery is generally pretty bad today.
But this is not regulated to Star Trek fans alone though. I have seen this big change of heart takes place in other fandoms as well, namely Star Wars.
The Phantom Menace was just re-releaaed last week for its 25th anniversary and there are so many people out there that truly love that movie today. There is so much fawning over it in many places. But I remember when it came out it was the utter opposite lol. TPM and the prequels in general were so hated people wanted Lucas to stop making SW period. The reaction over the prequels is partly why he sold it off.
Today it’s a complete turnaround with the prequels being praised and the sequels have now become villainized. And the sequels were originally meant to wash out the bad taste the prequels left for many.
A famous movie YouTuber named Jeremy Jahns said in his review of the rerelease that there are a lot of people today that have no idea the prequels were ever hated (or still hated now).
I believe that (and for the record I personally still think it’s bad) and the same thing is happening with the older Trek shows as well and people have no idea shows like Enterprise or even TNG ever even had the acrimony it had at the time if they are under a certain age.
So yeah I can see the same thing happening with Discovery and the other current shows in the next 20 years just like I can for the SW sequel trilogy. Time and nostalgia seems to heal all wounds.
Strangely enough, the new season of Discovery feels like a 25th century show, mostly because it nicely uses Berman Era canon so seamlessly. I no longer feel the urgent need for a Legacy show if they write more like this for all shows. I’m just not into TOS stuff nearly much because the universe seems so much more confined, but the more campy energy of TOS Star Trek suits SNW so well and it’s way more accessible and charismatic.
Discovery had a pretty terrible start, an under-developed ensemble cast and a premise that caused huge conflicts with storytelling. I don’t think they were ever able to fix it unfortunately, but I still enjoy it all the same. I don’t blame Kurtzman for that, although the terrible bungling of the Picard S1 and S2 is on his shoulders, but I know it’s REALLY hard to make this stuff, especially with all the compromises that came with pulling off the show and convincing the talent to participate. But we got some incredible stuff, like Lower Decks, Prodigy, Picard S3, and SNW. I’m looking forward to more, still a pretty packed outlook. And I’m thankful for what we’ve had, really is a blessing for a long starving Star Trek fan.
My only request, PLEASE fix the microphones and audio mixing for the Toronto shows! Some of the worst onset audio I’ve ever heard for any show.
They really seemed to study Picard S3 for how to do fan service while telling a new story. other problems still exist, but I have to give credit for them dialing back, and using it more subtly and in a more organic way. Doesn’t feel like they’re getting too cute with it. They picked a good TNG episode to follow up on as well.
Yep! 👍
I give credit where credit is due and it looks like they finally learned to make it closer to what Picard season 3 did and tie the show closer to canon and fan service but still can still tell an intriguing new story.
I don’t think the season has been amazing so far so far but it’s at least been decent. That’s high praise for Discovery! 😂
Agree on all counts.
Wow you literally just said everything I feel as well! 😀
As someone who has thought Discovery has been downright awful every season so far, I am truly enjoying this season more and I think a big part of that is just how well they been connecting it to old school canon. It was a great idea to tie it to a very popular TNG episode and expand that story. But I also like they brought the Breen back which was as exciting as Picard bringing the Changelings back.
And also love LDS, PRO and SNW. As for SNW like you I’m a much bigger 24th century fan, always will be because the universe feels much bigger and lived in. With the exception of the Romulans literally all my favorite species exists in the 24th century. And of course the Romulans can’t even show up very much pre TOS which is why prequels really really sick. 🙄
But SNW is making me enjoy that era more and feels like a more modern day TOS. It’s what I thought Discovery would be like but ironically nothing about it remotely felt like TOS to me. Nothing. It felt like it belonged in a completely different time period. So it was very jarring at first and glad they moved it.
And while SNW isn’t perfect either it does feel like it actually belongs there and just feel like classic Star Trek again. It’s tied with Enterprise for me.
It starts with great characters.
This interview feels different. Wheaton looks forcibly overjoyed. Kurtzman sounds completely burned out. Really hope better news come up in the upcoming months.
I don’t think Kurtzman has an inkling of a clue what good Star Trek is. These new shows and the awful reboot movies doesn’t spend much time on understanding the human condition. There is hardly any exploration done at least in the live action shows. There is no real gravitas like you got in the classic shows and people who felt like real adults and professionals. Everyone feels like college interns instead of adults making big decisions. It’s a big reason why I couldn’t take his movies very seriously either along with just more forgetful villains trying to take down the Federation for very vague reasons.
I have heard Discovery is better this season but I couldn’t get past the first episode. It still felt like the same melodrama and schlock where everyone is constantly discussing their feelings instead of focusing solely on the mission.
I don’t know if we’re ever going to get the Star Trek of the past where there was just more thoughtful and mature story telling and they tried to tackle complex issues more often. It doesn’t mean it was always success certainly but there was a real attempt.
I think Picard season 3 was the only time they got close to it and that was far from perfect as well.
Agree 100% with you, Legacy.
Even though I like NuTrek more than you I actually can’t disagree with a lot of your issues with it, I’m just not as bothered about it personally I guess.
But as I have said as well I definitely miss when Star Trek felt a little more serious and people sounded more like officers and not like they are in high school which is the biggest difference between the classical shows and films versus today.
And while I think Discovery is an improvement this season, understand it’s still falling into a lot of the same traps but it has been more enjoyable overall.
He talked a lot but said very little.
I don’t think anything new will be discussed or greenlit until Paramount is sold or merges with another company. And even then it’ll likely take a minute to get things approved and started, although announcements are easily done and are free so we might here about what’s coming well before we get it.
No mention of ST: Legacy but that’s not surprising. I think this’ll happen, once a sale is finalized. The fan desire is there and Picard Season 3 was very well received enough, both in terms of critical reception, viewing numbers and industry relevant awards. I only hope Matalas and Co. are available to head and staff the show, if it is greenlit. I know there are some who think this will simply be a rehash of previous Berman era Trek, but I think, for many, that points to a fundamental lack of understanding about what Picard season 3’s mission and overall goal was, and what Matalas has said in terms of his vision for St: Legacy, what it would be, and where it would go.
As for other Star Trek shows I’d like to see, something involving the federation after its founding could be interesting. I’d personally like to see more of an alternate history approach taken with this time period, something that mirrors Robert A. Heinlein’s future history. Robert A. Heinlein was a very popular science fiction writer from the late 1930’s to the mid 1980’s. I think a more rough and tumble star fleet, beset by growing pains, conflict, and ideology vs pragmatism could really illuminate the time and the journey of humans from Archer’s time to Kirk’s; a less sanitized and gleaming future where the federation and star fleet make some serious missteps and are very much learning how to move through their part of the galaxy, to say nothing of the inherent danger in space travel and exploration that would be heightened during this time. We could even see some diversity of space exploration agencies, some geared more toward profit and less concerned with any prime directive/general order one. Eventually these would disappear or be rolled into Starfleet, but before that occurs, seeing competing interests among human institutions could bear some fascinating fruit.
Given Discovery’s strong 5th season, I’m sorry to see it go, so maybe at some point we could meet up with most of these characters again, maybe in a miniseries or individual specials that then lead to a big event.
I think Star Trek has numerous stories to tell and as long as the fans show up we will continue to get new stories.
I just wish SNW had more episodes per season.
Sorry but to me Kurtzman said a whole lot of nothing. It just sounds like he was trying to excuse why there is becoming less and less shows.
This was sadly just more a puff piece. I know that’s all The Ready Room sadly is and why I haven’t watched hardly any of it this season. I honestly just fast forward to see next week’s clip and maybe if the segments dealing with past Star Trek history is interesting enough but that’s really it.
It would’ve been nice to discuss actual details and things like LDS cancellation (although this was probably shot before that but I doubt it would’ve been discussed regardless) or just something more about Section 31 or SFA. It’s strange there was more info in the Vanity Fair article a month ago than what we got here but whatever.
And I have been one of Kurtzman’s biggest supporters here. Picard and Discovery has been mixed to say the least but loved Picard season 3 and enjoying the last season of Discovery so far even if I haven’t loved all the episodes. I’m really hoping the show ends on a high note and it’s been more good than bad at least, so staying positive.
But I thought LDS, PRO and SNW were all great out of the gate. Just feeling more like classic Trek and the Berman era again. They all been fun shows with solid characters and generally good stories. I have some criticisms for all of them (actually none for Prodigy lol) but I recognize they are good Trek shows even with flaws.
But yes I obviously see the criticisms all these shows still has and that they are not focusing on bigger ideas and when they DO like honestly Discovery has tried every season it falls flat with more tedious melodrama and truly bad plotting and twists. And I do miss the gravitas of the old shows others pointed out. When I turn on an episode of TOS, TNG or even VOY you feel a real sense of officers and scientists at work. All the characters could be light and playful who joked around at appropriate times but there wasn’t a lot of holding hands and crying either. When there was a crisis everyone had their game face on.
But that was a different time obviously and I don’t think these new shows will ever surpass what we got on the past. But that’s solely my opinion of course and I’m happy if others do like this era more today.
And at the end of the day it’s not a competition. We all want more Star Trek and more importantly good Star Trek. I’m just not sure how much we will of either though the way things are going at Paramount these days but I will support whatever comes next regardless as I have always done.
For me Star Trek will always be the most important entertainment franchise out there. It is a little sad not many new or young people are into this franchise today but as long as it still thrives I’ll be watching at least.
An elderly starship crew isn’t authentic so Legacy is not going to happen, folks.
Legacy isn’t about the TNG crew. In fact at the moment there isn’t any TNG cast members rumored to be in it. It will be about Seven and her MUCH younger crew mates on the Enterprise G who warped out with her in the finale.
Always nice to see someone speak up who actually knows what the show would be about.
Yeah…
Seven has never been interesting to me (just personal taste). She was brought on Voyager only to add a bit of sex appeal. And the storyline of Picard 3 wasn’t compelling at all (or believeable at the end). The writing was poor and the casting was questionable. Again…different strokes for different folks. Glad you enjoyed it.
There are easier ways to tell us you didn’t watch the end of Picard season 3 and therefore don’t know what a ST: Legacy show would entail and whom it would involve.
The problem with Kurtzman era Trek is they all feel like parody or a hollow manifestation of something else. None feel like actual real new Star Trek. The closest being Lower Decks, but even that can get too callback-y and outlandish, though that can be forgiven due to being a comedy/animation.
But the live action stuff feels like Star Trek that is a copy, but a copy that doesn’t really understand the original entity that it is being copied from. Very nudge nudge, wink wink. It’s so odd. I think to myself “oh that’s like such and such”. Though I never feel I am seeing new adventures within the universe between 1966-2005. It feels so disconnected. Sorry, just how I see it.
Though, Kurtzman was never the right man for this universe, looking back at his previous works and his admittance of not being a fan of the franchise. Bob Orci was the fan within the old writing due, therefore found it very puzzling he was given the keys to the kingdom by CBS and now Paramount. Hollywood, a funny ol’ place. What did Kevin Smith say during the Superman Lives shenanigans? You fail upwards? That is VERY evident.
The only thing I want to hear from Kurtzman is that a Terry Matallas lead Star Trek Legacy is greenlit.
Same.
Yep! 👍