| April 2, 2007 |
By: Paul (Spockboy) Sibbald
40 comments so far
I prefer the opening shot in the original version better, but after that I think the remastered version is superior. They really nailed the look of the E this time around. The hanging in space shots look almost indistinguishable from the original 11 footer.
I have to say I think they got it wrong this time – overall. The change to the enterprise themed ships is so blatant: the glowing coloured ships could have been incorporated better, maybe they were shields or something, whatever, but they changed too much. And the ship swinging infront of the camera after Spock says GO, too distracting… a bit disappointing overall. Better luck next time!
I think all of the ships and effects in general where outstanding in this episode. The Enterprise has never looked better! Tholian ships where great. I don’t feel they where too much like the ENTERPRISE ships at all. They looked much more real this time on screen. I loved the way they moved on screen.
(… now please, for the love of God and all that is holy, please replace the early remastered episodes with this Enterprise model!!!…)
Outstanding! This was far superior to anything CBSD has done to the series. And it looks SO much better than the original. I, for one, and all for the remastering… and I have watched Trek since the original was first run. I will definitely pick up the DVDs when they are available. Thanks CBSD for your amazing work.
Thanks Spockboy – Really appreciate the effort.
Great work as usual, Spockboy!
Wow, this comparison really shows how dark the remastered version is.
Didn’t they re-do the scene with the Tholian commander(?) on the main viewer? I thought that alien looked me fake than Balok’s puppet. Besides that, it looked good, bu it’s hard to tell untl I see the effects in context.
The Tholian commander was not redone.
This episode looked pretty darn good as far as ‘rendering’ the enterprise is concerned. They used a very unflattering shot of the enterprise a few times. It’s the one where they are behind her and do a bit of a pan. The original shot was taken from higher up and made the ship look far nicer. The lighting is still far too drab in my opinion. There were a few more shots where the original angles worked better, but…what is a guy gonna do?
My friends just watched this. They laughed at the whole thing. Do better next time CBS-D. I tkae back all of my judgements regarding this mater as this remaster is crap. That’s just my opinion, but apparently, it’s true. Next week’s better be better. Before you put these things on DVD, I hope you will change these considerrrrrrrrrrrrrrably. : (
Now in all seriousness, I will be specific in what I think doesn’t look quite up to par.
1. The approach on the Defiant. The ship appeared on the view screen twice at a particular angle and then shifted to a different angle and then switched back.
2. When the Enterprise fired on the Tholian ship, the ship threw back in a strange manner. The underside of the ship in this shot also didn’t match the underside seen in the rest of the episode
3. The deflector dish. It was very dull in color. A little more orange would be better. Eden FX’s digital model of the Defiant is very good when it comes to color.
As far as the rendering of the ships and their design, it was OK, but it could have been better. Certain details made the model seem a little too CGI. Do better next time guys. I know you have the potentail to.
Point number one: They also did this in “The Doomsday Machine” when Decker is approaching the planet killer in the shuttlecraft. The view out his windows makes it look like he’s far away, but then in a outside shot, it shows that he’s practically in the mouth of it. Then it goes back to inside the shuttlecraft and it looks like he’s far away again.
Point number two: It did seem strange, but that’s hardly a reason to say that the new FX were bad. Or to be laughed at. (I think the original effects for the majority of the series could be MORE laughed at.) I don’t remember seeing the underside of the Tholian ships after that scene. They always show the top.
I think that CBS-D did a great job with this one.
I think if ‘ol Frank Van Der Veer had more time and lots of money, the original fx would have looked pretty much like this. STILL- there is something conceptually NOT right about CBS’s work. Lighting, shot design… something.
They need someone with Trumbull or Dykstra’s eye.
And I always liked the “alienness” of the Tholian ships. The new ones are far too “ENT” for me. (Screw canon when it comes to THAT show.)
Yeah, the CBS team really does need a more experienced eye for this stuff. I find their results to be alright these days, but far too clinical…or perhaps bland is the word. Awkward even. Some of the shots are just bad angles.
I loved almost all the new effects and think they are doing a fine job, but, I miss the old “pivot shot” of the Enterprise after the Defiant vanishes. I always liked that shot. It seems there are a few shots like that whcih CBS-D shy’s away from. I wonder why that is. Did anyone notice that the phaser beams coming out of the big E were “fatter” this time, like some fans asked for? I’m not sure if I liked that better or not.
Re: “The Tholian commander was not redone”
Really the Tholian comander was touched up. Remember guys, because we tend not to think about it, the entire episode is worked on every frame is cleaned up and the colors enhanced. Most of the time it seems they make the color scheme a bit darker than the original but I don’t see a problem with that it makes the overall product look deeper. My favorite shot was of the Enterprise in the black nothingness void, very cool wish it was a touch longer!!! Last but not least again they did touch up the tholian this time on the screen. They didn’t blatantly change it but the colors seemed way more vibrant and the glowing effect of the tholian seemed more intense.
“10. Crap – April 2, 2007
Now in all seriousness, I will be specific in what I think doesn’t look quite up to par.
2. When the Enterprise fired on the Tholian ship, the ship threw back in a strange manner. The underside of the ship in this shot also didn’t match the underside seen in the rest of the episode”
Sorry I just have to chime in here. Point number one TOS did this all the time did you ever pay attention to the huge amounts of special effect inconsistencies they had??? Point two are you poking fun at the underside of the Tholian ship or the flying back part??? 1st why don’t you get into a very small ship and we will have the big E fire her huge phasers at you and see if you don’t bounce around a bit! Especially after your shields go down! Secondly there are two tholian ships if you recall they don’t necessarily have the same underside! Whets this??? Two different looking ships instead of the same model used like in TOS!!! Damn it all that is just over the line I am done. I am never watching this again… I am selling all my thousands of dollars worth of DVDs… I am have the Spock lives tattoo removed from my arse even though I know it will leave a scar! Damn it all boycott in front of CBS D today at noon by the flagpole whose with me???
P.S. Just in case you can’t denote, it is intended as sarcasm! I would never get rid of my Spock lives tattoo! ;-)
Aside from the Enterprise in the interphase/void shot with the darkened E flying ahead and the underside shot of the Enterprise toward the end of the episode, I found the original VFX superior to the remaster in this instance. On the whole, I’ve been impressed with CBS-D, especially with Doomsday… but this one disappointed me. Oh well… guess you can’t hit a homer every time…
I only have this to say…the original version of The Tholian Web in this particular redo is still the best overall.
I liked The new Doomsday Machine version alot, and so far these redone fx on most of the shows have improved on the original in some way at the least, but in this particular instance they really did a shoddy job.
the 1969 emmy award winning fx for this show still stand up bettter…far better than this awful “effort” in this weeks attempt on The Tholian Web.
Please dont think you have to “fix” EVERY episode CBS/CGI!
Shaye, (an ardent supporter of GOOD fx everywhere!)
“No need to fix what wasnt broken, and you dont paint a mustache on the Mona Lisa”
I, for one, liked the E swinging in front of the camera. It reminded me of the TNG credits where the E-D does the very same thing right before it stretches into warp. The spot where the E is in the darkness was also sweet.
But I agree with others reference the awkward rear angles, the Tholian throwback and the initial defiant approach angle/s.
Not to change the subject but is anyone else like I am in highly anticipating The Immunity Syndrome’s digital makeover? This has the potential to be one of the better upgrades…or one of the worst.
Why is the remastered version so friggin’ dark? Can someone please “enlighten” (heh, heh) me? Thanks!
The trailer is up!!! LOOKS REAL GOOD!!!!
I am going to take a different side of the argument now and point out what CBS-D did right or OK. I will also comment on the things that need improvement. My intentions are not to insult CBS, but to give suggestions for their future work. Screwing up Star Trek is a crime in my eyes. It’s a well respected TV show. If it had award winning effects in the 60’s, then it should have award winning effects today.
I think that the digital render of the Enterprise is not bad at all. It does however seem a bit bland. The random elements of detail are a nice touch, but there is something about them that looks strange, though I can’t quite put my finger on it. Again, I think the deflector dish is very dull. Brighten it up a little bit.
As for the Tholian ships, I like their new design. They don’t quite have that sci-fi look from the original, but they do look much more real. They also have a darker look to them which gives a different and probably more realistic feel to what the Tholians are really like.
I think that the Enterprise’s approach on the Defiant looked a bit off. In the first shot when it appears on the viewscreen we see the Defiant leaning to the right. Then in the next shot, just a couple of seconds after, we see it leaning to the left. This would have been ok if they were some movement to suggest that the Defiant changed positions.
When the Enterprise fired on the Tholian ship, we saw the Tholian ship’s force field come up, which looked pretty good to my eyes. However, the ship being thrown back as a result of the phaser fire looked quite awquard. There was no debree or explosion, just a flash of light on the ship’s surface. After the phaser fire, the ship had no evidence of any damage either.
I also believe CBS-D is being too faithful to the original shots. This is neccessary to a degree, but I believe some more realistic shots will give viewers a more realistic view of the show.
The Enterprise’s phasers don’t have enough substance to them. They look so perfect, it’s hardly believable. In the Enterprise episdoes “In a Mirror Darkly” parts one and two, Eden FX did a fantastic job with the look of the phasers. Just look at those and you’ll know what I am talking about.
Everything else looks good.
I will say again, I am not trying to be critical of CBS-D’s work. I am just trying to report any of the concerns which I have that invole the remastering project.
Next week’s preview for the Immunity Syndrom looks fantastic!!! The ship looks pretty good from what I can tell (than again, I have been wrong before). The colors look fantastic, as does the rendering of the space amoeba. I am very excited.
P.S: “The Tholian Web” looked very dark, both on television and on this site. That’s not a real big problem, it just bothered me a bit.
As far as Crap’s statements go, I think he knows what he’s talking about, but I think he is being way to critical of this remaster. After all, who would put up a name like Crap without having a negative attitude on things.
CRAP= Can’t Remastering Achieve Perfection? Yeah, that must be it!
I DID like the “funky-groovy -60s-delic-spinning Tholian attack weapon”. That was good.
I loved it and I think that a slightly darker E is more realistic and makes the old shots look bad. I mean really… E is all lit up, no shadows in her pale blue (wrong) hull plates. Talk about no depth, no dimension. And to those that compare this to DS9 or ENT as being dark….pffft. She needs some shadows, there are light sources out there… try ummm… STARS! A local sun or two.
As I said before, some of you critique God’s sky in the morning. CBS-D does a great job and won’t please everyone. (God, it’s too blue…doesn’t look believable. Try again or we won’t buy the DVD.)
Oh yes, thanks Spockboy
I understand what you’re saying Xai and I agree. I know that you are not totally refering to me, however, when I post things that aren’t exactly praise, it’s not to complain, but to simply give suggestions that might enhance the wonderful work they CBS-D is doing. I think they’re is doing a great job for the most part. Just a few cinks to work out.
Gd, no I was not reffering to you.
Glad to hear it.
12 Good point. Interesting that this great side by side comparison shows in the opener how much nicer those original nacelle lighting effects were than can be done digitally, it’s a shame that clearly that will never be quite right in the remasters. It is a great testement to those original artists that with 12v coloured incandescents and some mirror fragments that they produced such a memorable effect that has become almost impossible to replicate.
The E model has looked a little better in some shots of previous episodes, as some others have noticed which does seem odd. And, yes, that deflector dish still looks too dull.
That reactive move of the phaser hit Tholian ship does look “off” somehow (GD, 24) and the update on the design overdone. The “crab” and jib style move rear shots of the E are nice but need to be very slow for scale – those moves would span hundreds of feet in just a few seconds!
As some have pointed out, there’s more to VFX than technique and equipment, it’s (obviously) an artform, a mini high art film production in itself requiring an “eye” and feel for the dramatic necessities that the shot is driving, and that is so so quickly diluted when there are many individual artists on workstations dividing it up and losing track of the original overall dramatic intent, whilst concentrating almost solely on some infinitessimal image imperfection. That is why I believe many of todays’ big VFX have a certain blandness to them, whilst strangly looking perfect, even too perfect. It is becoming very apparent what an extraordinary job they made of the original effects back then, given severe budget, materials/equipment – and especially – time restraints.
the ship is flying diagonally in the first shot! why remaster the show at all if they’re going to keep it that consistent?!
Good point Chris about some moves needing to be s-l-o-w-e-r. Some too fast “imaginary” camera moves of the new CGI “E” are making the new work seem smaller in scale. Well spotted.
I got it, everyone!!!!
The reason why many of you don’t like the Tholian ship being thrown back by the phaser hit is……….*drum roll, please*……….because the the phaser beams FOLLOW the ship as it flings backwards. Wouldn’t the beams remain stable while the ship flings out of their path?
Either way, I still like their work, though! lol
I think the beams would follow the ship since there are no more shields blocking them. Otherwise they’d just hang there bouncing off of nothing. I think they got it just right.
Thanks for the side by side comparison. It really helped me realize… I much prefer the original. I’m 39 and been a fan of Star Trek (especially TOS) for as long as I can remember. Remastering was totally unnecessary in my opinion. Clean it up if you like, but don’t change anything.
Weird, I don’t think they would…if you aim a bullet at a target, and then it moves, it won’t hit the target anymore. Or, if you fire a bullet at a man, and he falls, and you keep firing straight forward, the other bullets won’t hit him.
Doesn’t matter, I’m 40 and I love the remastering overall…each to his/her own, I guess.
“Clean it up if you like, but don’t change anything.”
yes, boldly going nowhere.