“Strange New Worlds”
Star Trek: Strange New Worlds Season 1, Episode 1 – Debuted Thursday, May 5, 2022
Written by: Akiva Goldsman; Story by: Akiva Goldsman, Alex Kurtzman, and Jenny Lumet
Directed by Akiva Goldsman
The promising new series returns to classic Star Trek storytelling with a modern sensibility and has some fun along the way.
WARNING: Spoilers below!
RECAP
“Use it to be the man you most essentially are.”
“Strange New Worlds” befittingly starts with unknown aliens observing a mystery: a Starfleet ship on a first contact mission. Back on Earth in snowy Montana, a very bearded Captain Pike makes breakfast for his captain with benefits. She’s headed off and tells him it’s time for him to do the same. This thought is echoed by Admiral April, who shows up to order Pike to take the Enterprise and find out what happened to Number One, who has gone missing on that first contact mission. Meanwhile on Vulcan, Spock is on a date with T’Pring, where they “query” each other (wink wink). She pops the marriage question he wanted and things heat up back home, but before things go TV-MA, Pike calls and T’Pring gives us our first hint she doesn’t like sharing.
Cleaned up and back in uniform, a moody Pike boards the Enterprise after a nice flyby. Spock briefs the captain about ship status and how some crew members won’t be boarding until they get back—like Lt. Kirk. Wait, what the what? On the bridge Pike meets his (acting) first officer, the taciturn Lt. La’an Noonien-Singh and the friendly “prodigy,” Cadet Uhura. As the eager pilot Ortegas awaits his order to go to warp, Pike is struck with a haunting vision of his future chair-bound self. He quickly rallies, going full homespun to update the crew on their mission before they go to warp. Later, he speaks to the only person he can about his struggle, Spock, who (aware of all the classified stuff from Discovery season 2) uses all the logic he has to try to get his captain out of his hesitant second-guessing funk.
“These people are not ready.”
When they arrive at Kiley 279, things are quiet… too quiet. Number One’s ship is there but empty and there is no subspace chatter, no ships, nothing. Plus, the warp signature that drew Starfleet there is “pretty weird” according to Ortegas, who’s keeping it real. This all adds up to something fishy, so Pike heeds the advice of security chief La’an and puts up the shields just in time for the ship to get hit with some torpedoes. Spock has sorted out that “weird” sig… it’s not from a warp drive, it’s a “warp bomb.” This planet is at war with itself, and now it has the means to destroy itself. Spock reminds us first contact is only done with warp-capable civilizations and warp has never been developed as a weapon first, so these guys must really hate each other.
The solution to investigate the planet without breaking General Order One takes us to sickbay to meet the gregarious Dr. M’Benga and head nurse Christine Chapel, who gives off some fun mad scientist vibes as she proceeds to “mess” with the genomes of Spock, La’an and Pike to disguise them as locals. After beaming down, La’an and Spock take out some alien guards to steal their IDs and outfits, then beam the aliens up to sleep it off in sickbay. After some more hijinks and transporter tricks the landing party finds Una and her team being held as prisoners. Number One has sorted it out, these people didn’t even invent warp. The battle with Control from Disco S2 was pretty close by, and the aliens saw the whole thing and somehow figured out warp. Taking responsibility, the fan of old sci-fi stays behind with Spock and Pike even gets to say, “Take me to your leader.” Classic.
“I’ve seen my future, let me show you yours.”
The alien leader is skeptical of Pike and has no regard for Federation regulations or galactic norms. She has “the biggest stick” (aka the warp bomb) and that “seditious faction” is going down. As Pike is manhandled out of the room he makes another call, deciding to use his bigger stick (aka the USS Enterprise), which he calls down from orbit to scare the s#!t out of inspire the people of Kiley 279. General Order Who Cares… this is awesome. It gets the alien leaders talking for the first time in centuries—actually more like loosely organized yelling—so it’s time for Pike to make another bold move. He inserts himself into the debate and after some aw-shucks charm, he connects the dots on how Earth and Kiley are very much the same. Then he shows them just how bad it got for Earth in the 21st century before we had our own first contact, complete with CNN conflict footage and eventual nuclear horror. The choice is theirs: Continue down the road to “rubble” or join the Federation. They choose wisely.
Back at Earth spacedock, Admiral April isn’t exactly happy. The only thing keeping Pike out of the space slammer is the loophole that the battle with Control is like Fight Club and no one can talk about how this planet got warp tech, so ipso facto, everything is fine. Chris has his space mojo back, moving past his haunted future and remembering “Enterprise is my home.” And he is impressed with La’an, so she can stick around as security chief. Just a few things left to do before the Enterprise leaves, including welcoming Lt. Kirk… that’s George Samuel Kirk in all his mustachioed glory. They got us with that one. It’s time to go. The mission? To explore, seek out, boldly go… you know the rest.
ANALYSIS
Off to a good start
“Strange New Worlds” does exactly what you want a good series premiere to do: give you a sense of what the show is all about in terms of style, tone, and structure, plus a sense of who the main characters are and what motivates them. This opener makes good on the promise of a return to classic storytelling with a modern update, which in this case goes beyond the bigger budget and fancier technology. We can get a sense of how this show is going to be driven by the characters and how their stories will tie into the planet of the week.
Pike was the main focus here, and Anson Mount returned to Trek fully in command, giving us a character who is quintessentially a Starfleet captain but also has a complex inner life. We can see the foundation of an arc for him this season as he continues to deal with the fallout of learning his fate. This inner struggle played out nicely with the story of the alien first contact, informing the solution to the crisis as well as serving as a thematic backdrop of fate vs. choice.
Ethan Peck was equally impressive, returning with a more nuanced performance of Spock and adding some dimension to it, most notably a romantic side. Bringing in T’Pring may prove controversial and is definitely one of those examples of stretching canon that co-creator Akiva Goldsman let us know would be part of the show. However, this creates a whole new area to explore for Spock, who will have to figure out how to reconcile duty vs. matrimony. Dealing with work/life balance is quite relatable.
Unfortunately, we didn’t get much time with Rebecca Romijn’s Number One, but we got little tastes of a few of the other characters, each of whom showed unique quirks and capabilities, from La’an’s tightly wound caution keeping them safe, to Uhura’s enthusiasm and local sports knowledge coming surprisingly handy, and Chapel’s quick thinking getting the landing party into the secret hideout, and so on. These are all people we want to learn more about and none feel out of place on a Starfleet ship.
With so much time dedicated to getting to know the captain and his crew, the familiar first contact gone bad story was a bit too short. Pike’s solution to the problem was certainly overly simplistic and definitely heavy-handed, skipping allegory to go right to flat out drawing a direct line to how our contemporary society is at risk due to partisan conflict. Sure, classic Star Trek was on the nose sometimes with its message, but a modern show should do better.
While things got serious with all the talk of global nuclear war, the overall tone of the show was still light and contained the spark of hope and optimism that a Star Trek series should. And we can already see how they are ready to have some fun on this journey, with a number of fun gags telegraphing the show doesn’t take itself too seriously, like having Pike speculate that calling General Order One “The Prime Directive” will “never stick.”
And of course, the production design is spectacular, with the USS Enterprise getting another upgrade after Discovery season 2. The sets, props, costumes, visual effects, and music blend respect for the source material along with today’s best practices and technology.
Going boldly
Speaking of tech, how the episode handled the use of Trek tech could offer an insight into the show’s view of franchise lore. Strange New Worlds had some clever twists, including voice-activated communicators and clothes built into the transporter buffer. After over 800 episodes of Star Trek, it can be a challenge to come up with new ways to use the various bits of Treknology, but the creative teams here show they want to be able to flex their imaginations and won’t be constrained just because no one ever tried something before.
However, the core bit of Trek tech driving the plot may have been twisted too far here. Is it credible that a 21st-century level of tech could reverse engineer an anti-matter reactor just by observing a space battle from a light-year away? And what exactly is a “warp bomb” anyway? Isn’t it just an anti-matter bomb, aka photon torpedo? And wouldn’t using anti-matter as a weapon actually be a lot easier than developing a warp drive, just as it was easier to develop nuclear weapons before nuclear reactors? You can see what they were going for here, but it just didn’t add up.
Another area where they are taking a bold course is Spock and T’Pring. This opens up some potential for exploring the characters and Vulcan culture, a key part of Trek lore. But this first episode has some mixed results, with Gia Sandhu’s T’Pring feeling a bit too casual for what we understand of Vulcans. This show definitely has a different take on Vulcan courtship, romance, and sexuality. Let’s hope this is going somewhere and isn’t just for titillation.
Final thoughts
Strange New Worlds is a breath of fresh air and just what Star Trek needed. This series opener presents us with an intriguing new canvas that has a lot of potential. The story was a bit too familiar, the solution overly simplistic with a heavy-handed message, but those elements really weren’t what this episode was all about; it’s really about these characters. In just a short time, we care about them and want to see where they’re all headed.
Having already seen some of the upcoming episodes, we have good reason to be optimistic too, so get ready to “hit it” for the next nine weeks.
Random bits
- This is the tenth writing credit for co-creator and co-showrunner Akiva Goldsman, who also directed the episode and co-wrote the Star Trek: Picard season finale released on the same day.
- Story co-writer and executive producer/co-creator Alex Kurtzman also had writing credits for the series premieres of Discovery, Short Treks, and Picard.
- The episode began with a new “Star Trek” branding animation, which was not part of the Picard episode released the same day.
- The episode was dedicated to the late Star Trek producer April Nocifora. An episode of Discovery was also dedicated to her.
- Captain Pike likes to watch the classic 1951 sci-fi film The Day the Earth Stood Still, which is about first contact with aliens. The film was directed by Robert Wise, who also directed Star Trek: The Motion Picture.
- The film was also shown on board the NX-01 Enterprise on Star Trek: Enterprise.
- Robert April originally appeared in the Star Trek: The Animated Series episode “The Counter-Clock Incident.”
- Una’s ship was the USS Archer (NCC-627), named for Jonathan Archer, captain of the NX-01.
- The Archer was a very rare example of a single nacelle ship.
- Query: Why would Starfleet send a small ship with only three officers led by a Lt. Commander on a first contact mission?
- Pike’s cabin was in Bear Creek, Montana. There is a real town of Bearcreek, Montana, population of 91, which is about 130 miles from Bozeman, MT, the location of first contact with Vulcans.
- The episode begins on Stardate 1739.12 and ends with 2269.42.
- How did Spock get from Vulcan to the Enterprise before Pike? Just how long did it take to shave that beard?
- As Pike boarded the Enterprise, Spock informed him it had been 3 months, 10 days, 4 hours and 5 minutes since the Discovery season 2 finale battle with Control, which took place in the year 2258. Strange New Worlds takes place in 2259.
- The battle took place near Xahea, and the Kiley aliens somewhat resembled Xaheans.
- The map around Riley showed a number of systems that were introduced in TNG and DS9, including Cardassia Prime, Bajor, Free Haven, Trill, Nausica, and the Argus Array.
- La’an’s record indicated she was part of the “unconfirmed” first contact with the Gorn, giving her a very tragic backstory.
- The shuttle Pike took to the Enterprise was named for the Discovery character Paul Stamets, who presumably is believed to have died in the line of duty.
- There was another Constitution-class ship in the spacedock.
- Transporter Chief Kyle (Andre Dae Kim) is likely based on Kyle, who served on the Enterprise under Captain Kirk.
- M’Benga and Chapel refer to chasing a patient on Delta Scorpii Seven. Delta Scorpii is a binary system 136 parsecs from the Earth/Sol system.
- Series regular Bruce Horak made his first appearance as the Aenar engineer Hemmer very briefly at the end, but he had no lines.
More to come
Every Friday, the TrekMovie.com All Access Star Trek Podcast covers the latest news in the Star Trek Universe and discusses the latest episode. The podcast is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pocket Casts, Stitcher and is part of the TrekMovie Podcast Network.
New episodes of Star Trek: Strange New Worlds debut on Thursdays exclusively on Paramount+ in the U.S., Latin America, Australia and the Nordics. The series airs on Bell Media’s CTV Sci-Fi Channel and streams on Crave in Canada. In New Zealand, it is available on TVNZ, and in India on Voot Select. Strange New Worlds will arrive via Paramount+ in select countries in Europe when the service launches later this year, starting with the UK and Ireland in June.
Great episode! Finally!
If people don’t like this show after they see the first five episodes, it’s prove that there’s just no satisfying some people. The show is literally everything fans have been asking for.
Yeah, I can almost guarantee that the (dying) fandom menace regulars will be posting their rage videos about how “not Star Trek” SNW is.
Maybe you should remember that it was that (not dying) fandom menace that are most likely responsible for getting this show made.
As to how it plays out to me, someone you’d probably label fandom menace, it was almost everything I remember Trek to be.
What? You mean I liked it and didn’t think it was woke. Yes I did and yes it is woke. Woke was never the problem. We never had a problem with using the show to tackle current issues. We had a problem with it’s outcome. Trek was exploration and a future glimpse of what we could be if we overcome our problems. It was always a story of hope.
There has been no hope in Discovery or Picard. Well, at least Discovery tried this past season. Typically they are both just a myopic and dystopian take on our future. They hadn’t overcome our present issues; they were still right in the middle of them.
It was Akiva that got the show made. The fandom menace are so much like the Snyder cult in the DC fandom. Hollywood doesn’t cave to fans as much as some would believe they do.
I don’t understand how/why the studio caved to the Snyder cut in the first place — though that kind of puts a lie to your claim that Hollywood doesn’t cave to fanatics. For me, the theatrical was well-nigh unwatchable, and it looks like more of the same on the new cut.
Except for stylistic excesses, I love WATCHMAN — I guess I’m the only one who worships both the graphic novel and the film version — and liked DAWN OF THE DEAD quite a lot, but all the rest of the Snyder I’ve tried watching just didn’t do it, and I found what I saw of his DC stuff to be utter crap, and undoing a ton of goodwill built up by the first two Nolan films and parts of the third.
They will definitely be whining about how ‘woke’ it is, don’t be naive about that. I’ve seen many ‘fans’ up in arms about including the January 6th footage in the episode and a lot can’t get over the fact April is now a black dude. I have a feeling this show is going to be very liberal leaning like Discovery is and it’s going to get their back up in a lot of ways while discounting that ALL the shows were liberal leaning. But yeah.
I was pleased with the first episode. And I would hope that the message of the two warring sides is to stop making the other side out as completely evil, as this is tearing us apart.
Just because I lean conservative doesn’t mean I’m a racist misogynist. If we’re fans of Star Trek, how bad can we be? Fans of the universe that includes Uhura, Sulu, LaForge, Sisko, Janeway, Chakotay, etc.?
I’m just hoping that this series will allow for all Star Trek fans to be welcome, not just the far left, which is how STD especially and STP partially feels.
Jeff I agree with you 100%. But then you get on places like YouTube and it’s the people on the right who seems to think Star Trek has gone too far to the left and feel the shows are trying to eradicate straight white men from existence and all of that other annoying nonsense. But you also know a lot of people believe it. It may not be a majority but enough to pound the message in for years now.
For me, Star Trek has ALWAYS been a liberal show. BUT I don’t think it’s an anti-conservative show either. It spews in liberalism but everyone still has a voice in it. You can still believe in certain views and values. That’s why the Prime Directive exists. It’s not out to change anyone’s mind or force people to think a certain way. But same time the idea of the Federation is a very progressive and egalitarian society. If you’re living and working side by side with ALIENS then your views can’t be that traditional either.
But then look at many of the aliens themselves. A lot of them would fall more in the conservative spectrum like Vulcans, Klingons, Bajorans etc. Their cultures are traditional, spiritual and mostly push the notion of keeping their culture pure; but still either part of the Federation or are strong allies. So that’s what I mean, Star Trek is presented as liberal but you can still hold conservative values within it. There is probably just a limit how far it can go. That’s why I love Star Trek, there is a lot of representation in it in many ways AS it should be!
But if you’re bothered because the shows have gay characters and minorities in 2022, then yeah you’re just watching the wrong show.
Jeff I agree with you 100%. But then you get on places like YouTube and it’s the people on the right who seems to think Star Trek has gone too far to the left and feel the shows are trying to eradicate straight white men from existence and all of that other annoying nonsense. But you also know a lot of people believe it. It may not be a majority but enough to pound the message in for years now.
For me, Star Trek has ALWAYS been a liberal show. BUT I don’t think it’s an anti-conservative show either. It spews in liberalism but everyone still has a voice in it. You can still believe in certain views. That’s why the Prime Directive exists. It’s not out to change anyone’s mind or force people to think a certain way. But same time the idea of the Federation is a very progressive and egalitarian society. If you’re living and working side by side with ALIENS then your views can’t be that traditional either.
But then look at many of the aliens themselves. A lot of them would fall more in the conservative spectrum like Vulcans, Klingons, Bajorans etc. Their cultures are traditional, spiritual and mostly push the notion of keeping their culture pure; but still either part of the Federation or are strong allies. So that’s what I mean, Star Trek is presented as liberal but you can still hold conservative values within it. There is probably just a limit how far it can go. That’s why I love Star Trek, there is a lot of representation in it in many ways AS it should be!
But if you’re bothered because the shows have gay characters and minorities in 2022, then yeah you’re just watching the wrong show.
Sorry the same message somehow got duplicated in the same post. Don’t know how it happened but it has happened before.
Great post! It’s so nice to read a post from a classic, thinking conservative instead of the you-know-who worshipers/unprincipled personality of cult types that call themselves conservatives today.
They’re not conservatives. They’re reactionaries.
Thank you.
They will definitely be whining about how ‘woke’ it is, don’t be naive about that. I’ve seen many ‘fans’ up in arms about including the January 6th footage in the episode and a lot can’t get over the fact April is now a black dude. I have a feeling this show is going to be very liberal leaning like Discovery is and it’s going to get their back up in a lot of ways while discounting that ALL the shows were liberal leaning. But yeah.
You all are so self-righteously toxic with your ridiculous words in quotes.
The ONGOING problem with the showrunners Paramount is hiring for these space fantasy shows and the Star Trek hangers-on is they are fact and science free. They make plodding soap operas instead of Science Fiction.
I knew this was doomed when I saw a military captain apparently owned a 100-acre Montana retreat – is Pike a profiteer? Is this the mirror universe? When does Spock grow his goatee?
Spock is making out with T’Pring in a restaurant such that he has to be warned by the maître d… hey, Goldsman, you know that Spock is a Vulcan, not the master of the forge, right?
The size of Pike’s quarters… It’s bigger than my house! Then the same science-is-for-morons audacity from Discovery, the burning fire place featured in the quarters. I’m checked out…
This is not episodic Star Trek – it’s more of the same where all the episodes are preoccupied with the slooooooow reveal of each character’s backstory, laboriously stretched over a dozen episodes interspersed with short-shrift, inadequate situations of the week that is actually supposed the story of the episode.
Having seen the next episode and a half – it’s not gonna get better.
I think you and you’re cohorts should start standing up for Star Trek as inspirational Science Fiction instead of this The-Mandolorian-Is-So-Much-Better-In-Soooo-Many-Ways tripe from Paramount…
oh, wait, Disney doesn’t put burning torches in space ships so maybe now Star Wars is science fiction instead of space fantasy…
What did I say that was ‘toxic’? I am pretty self-righteous at times though. It’s genetic.
And if you don’t like the show or the people running it, no worries. It sounds like you are just wasting your time then and need to move on. Right? Glad we worked through that.
Speaking of moving on, have a nice life.
Maybe Pike inherited the range from his family.
Or doesn’t own it and it’s a nature preserve, perhaps.
You’re very obsessed with real estate in this show. Maybe don’t watch while scrolling through Zillow next time.
Where do you work that you got to see the first 5?
I love my job way too much to talk about it.
Many members of the press have seen the first five.
Just one word: beautiful! In so many aspects! 😀
The single greatest episode of Star Trek ever! I loved it! Can’t wait for the rest of the season!
Definitely the greatest series opener in Star Trek off all time…and it’s not even close.
The greatest season opener of any show ever was “The Man Trap”. Salt vampires!
I admit that I may be biased.
Yea, in another post above, I mentioned that I don’t include TOS in this assessment that I made…I should have made that clear here. You are absolutely correct.
I didn’t see TOS on NBC, so I saw them Where No Man…, then Man Trap. Science Fiction with magical powers and right to creature feature worthy salt vampire. I was IN…
Looking back I was also really taken with the development of everything from the 2nd pilot to the “first” episode – the relationships were already mature, but the changes in all the production values, Spock, the humor between Kirk and McCoy. It was all so amazing how it didn’t start in dry dock, etc. it was already going full speed. Amazing!
It’s what all the Star Trek since then has really been lacking…
Still prefer Caretaker, Emissary and Broken Bow, to be honest.
Is the show available to watch at this very moment on Paramount+? If so I guess I’ll go ahead and subscribe to it right now? I thought it has a premier time tonight.
Roughly 2:15am Eastern time is when new episodes come online. At least this way since Discovery season 2
Only read the first couple of paragraphs, up till the mention of a ‘warp bomb.’ Can they just lift whatever they want from the TREK novels w/o credit? Pretty sure FEDERATION was the book that had this notion, though put forward as something of a joke by Cochrane which the baddies spent centuries trying to uncover.
I found it weird, that they called it a “warp bomb” since later in the episode they clarify that they they basically just mean a matter-anit-matter reactor/warhead.
Yeah honestly that line delivery by Spock is kinda cringy, a warp bomb like *eye roll* warp is travel, that’s like saying a railroad bomb – you mean a steam bomb? Or whatever is powering it? Warp isn’t the power it’s the propulsion
Except that when the Archer saw it they mistook it to be a warp drive. Their first exposure to the device was in the context of ‘warp’. So it kind of makes sense that a clarification would reflect that.
Try starting a warp engine at full power on the surface of a planet and then tell me it’s not a weapon.
;-)
I suspect it’s such a minimal spin on existing concepts that it wouldn’t need to be original.
I also wouldn’t be surprised if the writers of Star Trek novels aren’t asked to assign a contract which allows their stories and concepts to be adapted for film and TV (either deliberately or coincidentally)
I think that they can pull anything from Trek books or shows without credit… it is all owned by Paramount/CBS. If writers want to sue over that, Ellison has sued trying claim IP ownership of the Guardian, it’s a tough claim, and I think that Ellison lost that one. There may also be some royalty paid to the author. But there is a lot of book-canon making it into the new shows and I have never seen a credit for that.
it’s murky as to what they can pull for free vs what they need to ask / pay for. The best example being Tom Paris isn’t Nick Locarno *wink wink*.
Not murky at all nathan, and ground that we’ve covered here before.
Locarno was created for an onscreen Star Trek TNG episode. So, the writer of that episode has IP rights based in the Writers Guild of America contract in effect at that time.
Ellison was under the contract of a different era, and that’s what was the basis for any court decision around City in the Edge of Forever, especially as he attempted to have his name removed from the credits.
All Star Trek tie-in novels and comics are written under “writer-for-hire” contracts. Neither the authors nor Simon & Schuster own the IP for the novels: the IP is all held by Paramount (formerly ViacomCBS).
Well known Trek authors David Mack and Dalton Ward have commented several times on this.
Mack (who was a screenwriter first and has story and script credits for DS9) has that this is the case for SW lit authors too, but that they occasionally get (uncompensated) acknowledgements in the credits of Disney+ series.
Up to now, we’ve seen several novel-originated things “brought into canon” in the newest series without any acknowledgement to the authors. This includes Control in Discovery S2, Brikarians as a species in Prodigy, and Una’s name in SNW.
My sense is that the Trek authors have mixed feelings about the use of Treklit ideas onscreen. There’s great enthusiasm about seeing things from the books “brought into canon” onscreen. However, the execution isn’t always what the authors would have preferred (Control).
They understand well though what they’re getting into as writers for hire, and Mack has been on the other side of it with Prodigy. He consults for Prodigy and has been the one to bring forward options from the book IP for species, characters and situations.
And the female computer voice isn’t number One. ;-)
Well, there’s a storyline in the novels where Una returns to her home planet, which is very math and computer science focused to work on a new generation of computers for Starfleet.
She ends up using her own voice for the new speech library.
Given what Control did to Starfleet computers in Discovery, this would actually make a great plot for an excursion episode for the character. In the end, it could be that every ship but the one she serves on has her voice.
It’s not murky. It’s very well spelled out from a legal standpoint. The Paris/Locarno situation was very different than this.
Paramount/CBS owns Star Trek. They can reference anything they want. There’s no reason credit needs to be given since it’s all their property.
Sure, Paramount OWN’s the novels and all rights to them, in perpetuity. Just like the SW novels.
‘stretching canon’ is being generous. I’ll just have to head canon that this is a reboot. And a fine reboot at that. It’s *such* a breath of fresh re-circulated ship air to have a one-off story. Not trying to heavy handed setup a season long macguffin movie drama.
Just back to the basics. What is the mystery for today? How do the characters handle it and each other? Sure – the characters will have memory from each episode and there may be threads that progress but this…this felt much better than what we’ve been given for the past few years.
Same.. on everything. Great post.
I use the “Temporal Cold War” for discrepancies within the timeline, in story.
T’Pring being casual will probably upset a lot of fans for not being Vulcan enough but perhaps it makes sense. We know that even by this time a lot of Vulcans still have some prejudice against those of mixed heritage. It can’t have been easy for Sarek to arrange a marriage for his half-human son. Perhaps T’Pring is the Vulcan equivalent of the tearaway youngest daughter and was the only one they could match with Spock.
“Perhaps T’Pring is the Vulcan equivalent of the tearaway youngest daughter and was the only one they could match with Spock.”
There’s just no way for anyone to know that at the time of betrothal of what TOS said was like 7 years old.
less concerned about her characterization, because we weren’t given much about her to go on in the TOS episode, so that’s all fine. The problem I suspect fans will have is the undermining of everything that is said in the original episode. They hadn’t met again since they were 7 years old.
Spock is fast approaching Obi-Wan Kenobi levels of obfusaction and disemmbling if this is indeed prime time line.
Since surely they don’t have such disrepect or ignorance of the source material, and since I’m fine if this is a reboot – I’ll just repeating to myself
“it’s just a reboot, it’s just a reboot, it’s just a reboot”
You will note that he doesn’t specifically say they haven’t met since then. They had the ceremony, and they would be drawn back. Just because he doesn’t mention that they did meet again 7 years ago, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. He was giving an overview to the situation to his friends. Meeting in the interim are irrelevant.
I get the impression that him being called away is the beginning of her feelings that she didn’t want to be the consort of a legend.
…which it isn’t.
Nathan
I strongly recommend you not make such judgment calls about disrespect and ignorance of source material, when your own point is utterly without merit.
There is nothing in Amok Time or TOS to indicate how much or how little interaction T’Pring and Spock have had. Well outside of the fact that at the very least they meet once when young and once during the episode.
You even quote material that utterly doesn’t support your point.
The first quote is Spock giving Kirk some details on Spock’s Bonding with T’Pring, and how it impacts what he is currently going through.
Not a single line indicating that they have or haven’t meet after that bonding. Nothing…..
When T’Pring talks to Spock, she is telling him that over time she has come to the conclusion that she doesn’t wish to be tied to a legend. She is saying it wasn’t a quick decision. And its based off of the passage of time.
But again, nothing in this dialogue makes any reference to her and Spock spending time together or not spending time together, at all. Nothing. Nor does it indicate when she finally came to her conclusion, just that it took years.
You are making an assumption, when the facts of the dialogue don’t support that has being the only possible answer or even the probably one.
And then to make matter worse you insult those who created that specific work. That never makes appear as a reasoned or rational reviewer.
In the interview with Henry Alonso Myers that was posted a little bit ago on this site, he specifically mentions that the show just simply chooses to reinterpret everything in Amok Time to fit what they wanted to do.
Because dialogue can be interpreted by everyone in a different manner. For example, let’s just pretend that Amok Time was solely written by Theodore Sturgeon (ie no rewrites or polishes were ever made by another hand), and his idea for the intent of that scene is X.
That dialogue is then interpreted also through actors, and in most cases actors and writers don’t communicate that often on a TV set. So the actors intent in their delivery of performance could be Y.
Then you have the director, who is lensing the show and their opinion of that scene good mean Z.
Before a single soul has viewed that episode, you already have three or more voices bringing something to film, and each of them could be interpreting the material the same way, or with subtile differences, or quite differently.
Then you have an audience of millions, and each one of them can also have their own interpretations based on their own experiences in life to help shape how they interpret the scene.
In the case of the writer of Strange New Worlds he is doing the exact same thing. He is going at the material. And he’s looking at what does it mean? What can it mean? What do we have to work with in this material.
He’s able to do this because the material isn’t specific. This isn’t a case of it has wiggle room. There is a huge amount they can do with these characters and not violate a single line of dialogue from either specifically Amok Time or even from TOS itself.
But that’s a part of their job. Now I am absolutely sure they will at some point write something that doesn’t expand on what is said or shown in TOS, but actually contradict something specific. But what we have so far with T’Pring and Spock isn’t it.
Sounds like you just refuted your initial post and that now you won’t have to call it a reboot then, right?
I have no idea where you get that idea. But that’s basically the antithesis of what I was trying to convey.
Nathan had a post that Strange New World didn’t follow the dialogue from Amok Time specifically quoting to parts of the episode. I was stating that is an utterly incorrect assumption. That no dialogue in Strange New World contradicted a single line of dialogue from Amok Time. That Nathan interpretation of the dialogue of Amok Time could be right. But that his interpretation could be absolutely wrong as well, and as it’s not specific, then he can’t state his interpretation must be the correct one.
Tiberius Mudd then brings up how the writer looked at the original material, to see what could or couldn’t be done with it.
I added that each person working to make the original episode, might have their own interpretation of that material, and that then gets translated to the public and how each person has their own subjective view of that material that informs them on how they see the meaning of a scene. But since the dialogue isn’t specific that doesn’t mean their subjective opinion is the only possible way to look at it.
I interpreted his answer to mean, “I have an idea of what I want to do with this character in our show and I need to see if I can find enough in the text of ‘Amok Time’ to have it make sense.’” Without ambiguity he’s saying he interpreted the show’s events as intended but also saw how, if one wanted to, you could get out of being locked into the point of the story and the overall depiction. It’s a reinterpretation of an idea which is all a reboot really is.
Tiberious Mudd
And I don’t agree with the head writers, full statement. He can’t know with absolutely 100% certainty that his viewing of the intent of the original scene is correct. He is still making an informed assumption about the larger context of the scene. Most of the people who would have context for intent have all passed away most quite a while ago. From Coon (73), Sturgeon (85), Roddenberry (91), Pevney (08), Martel (14), Nimoy (15), so I think its doubtful he ever spoke to them about what their intent was in creating those scenes.
I do agree that he is looking at material from TOS (here we are talking about Amok Time) and seeing where he has room to add to the backstory of a character. And here there is plenty because the dialogue only locks in a few bits of data.
You can disagree with him all you want, but your displeasure doesn’t delete his reasoning for reinterpreting Amok Time to fit the story he wants to tell with Strange New Reboot. Too, Myers’ statement eats into your criticism of Nathan’s comment(s) being “utterly incorrect.”
Well said. This reminds me of a few fans yesterday who were claiming that early TNG eps didn’t reference TOS, when freaking Dr. McCoy has a two-minute scene in ep1 basically handing off TOS to TNG. LOL
In Amok Time, he NEVER says that they hadn’t met since the time of 7. You are reading way too much into that line. No canon issues at all with that scene.
THIS! EXACTLY! too many people confuse what the viewer knows vs. what the characters know.
there was a similar bitch about what a captain should know about their officer’s personnel files (Spock never mentioning he had a sister) while failing to remember that Kirk didn’t even know that Sarek was Spock’s father until it was dramatically neccissary
and we had 50 years (and endless reruns and books etc) to learn the rest of the character’s names. Hell, Sulu didn’t have a first name for decades.
Whatever they’re doing here between Spock and T’Pring is a thousand times better than the ridiculous Spock/Uhura romance in the JJ films.
Why did they not touch fingers?
I think they were about to touch something else before Pike intervened :)))
I was talking about when they were in public.
Overall it was a nice little episode on very well tread ground. But as a simple pilot it works. I would have wished, that they simply ignore the discovery connection, since the mention of the S2 Finale and having Pike constantly talk about knowing his death bogged down the otherwise enjoyable story a litte. I really hope that point will not come back later in the season.
Pike knowing his fate is an interesting character note though, so I’m good with it. Big Trek ideal of hope and perseverance , not quittting, etc…
Yeah. It probably could work. I just felt, that it didn’t, the way it was handled here.
One of my complaints was Pike constantly dwelling on his alleged “certain future fate”. I knew that would be a feature that wouldn’t work. And based on this episode… It doesn’t.
But they had to address it. I think Pike is over it now.
Hope you are right, but I’m not so sure. I feel like this is going to be Pike’s “thing” in this show.
Sounds like it’s going to be a season long thread
My thoughts exactly. Too much S2 Finale and too much seeing himself dying. We needed more T’Pring and Pike’s Captain with benefits :-)
Wonderful sets and visuals, all of the characters seem to be getting their own air-time and are likeable. A basic but enjoyable story-line with good pacing.
I liked it a lot.
What happened to the crew of Number One’s ship though? Were they all killed?
Oh yeah good point, what did happen to that crew?? And why would they bring such a small crew for such an important mission?
All 3 of the crew were in the cell. I would assume the ship was mostly automated.
It was a crew of three, and they all survived.
I admit that’s a head-scratcher, considering how the Enterprise in TSFS wasn’t really meant for automation. That being said, the Archer is probably a much simpler ship in terms of functionality than the Enterprise.
Did anyone catch if Sam Kirk was played by the same actor cast as Jim? I believe it was – they added the ‘stache, which I found a very cool callback to TOS when Bill Shatner played a dead Sam, with a ‘stache.
If it is, it’s kind of stupid to do. Shatner only played him in one brief shot because they probably wanted to save on the budget. Not every little thing needs to be expanded upon or given a call back.
He’s played by another actor called Dan Jeannotte,
Spock: I was thinking of Sybok. I have lost a brother.
James Kirk: Yes… I lost a brother once. But I was lucky, I got him back.
Spock: I would comment on the oddity of your not mentioning Sam Kirk but I myself barely remember him either despite serving with him apparently.
That was something that always bothered me, too. And it was something that just a quick line change could fix, too.
I thought Jim was the only one who called his brother Sam. His robot clone said so in “What Are Little Girls Made Of?”
all i saw was Guy Fleegman
^^^^^^^^^^ THIS!!! ^^^^^^^^^^
I want to kick things off early with my spoilerful review! Saw it on Sunday with a room full of Trekkies and overall I give the first episode a solid A! I think I like it better having seen episode 2 with it, however, because on its own it seems like a merely competent start, but nothing too bombastic. Here are my thoughts: The scenes: -I was real concerned at first when it looked like we were in some warehouse-y industrial starship/Starfleet setting in that opening sequence, like we were in the USS Kelvin engine room or something, just to give it that “gritty” real life feeling – but was pleasantly proven wrong when it was an alien planet discovering their first UFO -HETERO SEX: the first two scenes we get with our main characters are of Pike cooking with a naked woman (a fellow captain?) in his bed that I guess he’s hooking up with, because, ya know, he’s a straight male and Star Trek wants you to know its characters are real people that bone. Then we get ANOTHER sex scene with Spock and T’Pring, because again, the audience needs to understand that even the alien dude loves his woman and Star Trek can be sexy too -The scene with the captain taking the shuttle to the ship is like a tradition I guess, but the fact that Pike just beamed off the shuttle onto the ship just felt silly lol like I’m sure he would’ve just rather beamed up from Earth than go through a whole shuttle procedure?? -Pike seems a little dumb not to want to raise shields just as a matter of course when in orbit, which should’ve come as a no-brainer, but I guess they needed to give La’an a moment to shine. Also an interesting inversion of the Kirk v Khan matchup in WOK when Kirk literally could’ve raised shields. Like, it’s so easy to do – you just push a button. Just raise the shields, why even think twice? -Cutting to the end because I can’t really remember the middle, Pike just beams into the middle of the negotiating table and starts pontificating Starfleet ideology – I’m sorry but like, bro were you even invited? Did they know you were just gonna show up like that and start blabbing? Because like, can you imagine, say, Vladimir Putin chatting with Joe Biden about whether or not to nuke each other, and then some rando alien jumps in the middle and is like, listen yall, you’re being dumb and shouldn’t destroy your world – do you really think that’s going to work? Just seems like extremely brazen for the sake of inserting a message, and completely un-Prime-Directive The characters: -Pike: cool as a cucumber as always. One of my favorite lines: “Number One – I mean, the original Number One” -Spock: growing on me, but the sideburns just seem kinda weird to me, nonetheless hot as hell -Una: competent, also I bet she and Pike are gonna hook up this season -La’an: actually pretty cool, although why the absolutely horrific backstory with the Gorn that completely contradicts first contact in Arena? -Uhura: bubbly and fun, and also like what, 21 years old? -Chapel: way waaayyy too “cool” and needs to work on her bedside manner, but dang is she gorgeous. With the white hair though she screams “jaded Millennial in space” to me and I hope there’s more to her character -Ortegas: not much to her yet but she brings positive energy. I also love that both of the front console stations are manned by women – definitely a gender balanced cast for once! -M’Benga: also good, has the authority Chapel lacks, hope to see more of him -Hemmer: not much on him yet but he gets cool in episode 2 The Good: -The plot ended after one episode – hooray! But there’s plenty of threads to pick up on -The Pike flashbacks were *just* enough to convey what’s going on with him without being too much. As someone who couldn’t get through Disco past early season 2, I haven’t actually seen his arc and how it plays out, although I know what happened. So if you’re like me and you haven’t seen Disco, I think you can reasonably understand what happened based on what they gave us in the episode. -The actors are fantastic! And frankly none of the dialogue was exceptionally cringe, a first for maybe any episode of the Kurtzman era -The sets are really, really stunning, although I wouldn’t say they evoke TOS – they definitely feel more Kelvin aesthetic to me. But I just love how big the ship is, and it’s just all really well done -The effects – although I have a caveat below -There was no… Read more »
“This isn’t like old Star Trek where they talked about far future wars”
Old Star Trek discussed World Wars I and II, as well as Vietnam, two of which had happened in recent decades and one of which was STILL going on at the time.
You forgot to mention the part where Pike did what he did because he felt that the planet was already “contaminated” by outside factors. Otherwise, he wouldn’t have interfered with the planet’s natural development, albeit a dark one. Yes, the alien race might survive from mutual annihilation, as did the Earth, but the moral imperative was to give them an option: do what the humans did, and destroy themselves, or do better and reach for higher aspirations. Besides, what makes STAR TREK great is the tension between law and morality. If the rules say that we allow an immoral act to occur, as a form of self-preservation, are we less for it? Or do we “damn the rules…this isn’t right”? It’s that type of drama that makes the show worth watching, and I for one can’t wait to see more.
I saw the first 2 episodes too, at the Paley Center with my dad. We both liked episode 2 more than 1. Were you also there?
“Because like, can you imagine, say, Vladimir Putin chatting with Joe Biden about whether or not to nuke each other, and then some rando alien jumps in the middle and is like, listen yall, you’re being dumb and shouldn’t destroy your world – do you really think that’s going to work?”
You know, I actually think that might work.
“We” don’t know any such thing. Even Barbara Walter, the UCSD professor who has made her name with a book on how civil wars start, has a pretty creative definition of “civil war.”
We certainly have a Civil Cold War already underway. Whether that becomes a “hot war” remains to be seen. Keep you know who from retaking power and we have a chance to avoid it I think.
I really enjoyed the episode and it proves that both the episodic and season long arc stories can exist when different shows in the same franchise airing near each other.
While the episode itself was great it not my favorite series opener of a Trek show(more on that later).
The opening scene was cool it was interesting seeing first contact from the alien’s pov.
Pike has a cool looking 4K TV i wonder what brand it was? I wonder if he was drinking good tea in his nice house….
The shuttle that April was on looked cool it’s a nice visual reboot of the TOS one with some Discovery style thrown into it.
I liked the scenes between Spock and T’pring and Vulcan looks nice as always.
I loved the shuttle that was named after Paul Stamets glad they have Discovery references in the show as it shouldn’t forget that without Discovery being a huge success for Paramount we wouldn’t be having this show.
I loved the callout of Michael Burnham by spock and pike i would love it if we got some more flashbacks to Spock/Michaels childhood.
I like the bridge crew it’s going to take some time to get used to them i hope they are as good as the Discovery bridge crew. I really like the new actress playing Uhura it will be great to finally get character development for her we never really got any in TOS or the films.
Loved that the ship that was sent out to make first contact was called the USS Archer i hope we get a USS Burnham eventually too.
Loved the talk between Spock and Pike about what he experienced on the monastery on Boreth
So the civilization didn’t event warp drive they have a warp bomb? Interesting.
Love the sickbay set it’s about time a starship has a big sickbay previous sickbays have always been small which never made sense to me.
So the planet they beamed down on is in the middle of a civil war sounds alot like that Enterprise episode from S2 the communicator.
I’m loving the character of La’an she reminds me alot of Michael Burnham which is great i hope we see her taking more of the initiative.
Ok so one of the aliens has escaped you would think they would lock the sickbay door when you have visitors on the ship that you don’t want to risk further contamination to happen.
Loved the call back to the Discovery episode Such Sweet Sorrows it makes sense that a nearby planet with the right tech could see what went on.
Loved the CGI shot of the enterprise over the city though it had some lack of detail in parts.
The scene with Pike beaming down was great and loved his speech it was great too.
The space station looked awesome I’m glad they kept the Discovery style for the stations and that April now knows of Discovery and what happened.
Interesting seeing Samuel Kirk on the Enterprise hope we see more of him and it’s interesting that he works under Spock too.
Overall it was a great episode i was afraid that they would change the writing style to suit the naysayers but glad they kept the Discovery style writing in the show.
My favorite character in the episode is La’an i find her the best character so far and she really does remind me of Michael Burnham.
Overall it was a great episode i was afraid that they would change the writing style to suit the naysayers but glad they kept the Discovery style writing in the show.
The visual effects look good but noticed some shots that had very low detail. Which is not surprising since word from the likes of deadline and variety said that the show has a bit of a smaller budget then Discovery which had a budget increase for S4 and 5 according to them).
I felt that they offset one of the problems of the Discovery writing in that where the characters get more personal and emotive, they still do so in the slightly staid, stilted style of military officers (e.g. the conversation between La’an and Pike near the end). That was more like how TNG or DS9 did it and it worked much better in my view.
It did feel like a better balance. There are times when DSC’s stories get derailed by dragging out the personal challenges faced by the crew. Perhaps it’s SNW’s episodic format that just forces them to deal in a more expeditious manner?
The best part is that it feels like a real ensemble. It’s not The Pike Show, or the Pike and Spock show. It’s feels like it’s going to be more of an ensemble than even TOS, taking a cue from the 90s Trek shows.
I have to say that the series has potential. Characters, actors, production designs are great. The writing on the other hand feels clonky, especially when it comes to Star Trek specific stuff. Mentioning the Gorn took me out of it. Why are they doing this all the time?
I feel like they mentioned the Gorn because they are semi-popular and they could. But didn’t stop to think if it was appropriate for them to do so. It wasn’t.
I think it’s pretty obvious we’re going to get a Gorn episode this season so they were just setting it up. It is a weird back story for a character to have though (and definitely pretty dark lol) but the Gorn hasn’t really been part of Star Trek outside of it’s few appearances which I can only think of two. I won’t get ahead of myself but maybe they will be a reoccuring villain in the show sort of like what Lower Decks did with the Pakleds.
Yes, that was exactly my thought…they are foreshadowing. I read that ep 5 is a be ep for Noonian-Singh, so that could be the Gorn ep…if so, I cannot wait!!!
It was so-so for me. It looked good and I liked the basic plot of the episode but I didn’t really warm to the characters. I don’t think the Discovery elements were necessary, especially the Pike ones. I didn’t like the Spock/T’Pring thing as it didn’t feel very Vulcan. Plus I always assumed they were betrothed as children but perhaps that’s only in fanon. I really didn’t like the backstory of La’an and I find the actor’s accent very grating. Chapel feels like a completely different character and too quirky. I did like Uhura, Number One, and M’Benga but we barely saw them.
After the terrible Picard show I don’t want to watch anymore new Trek so I won’t be watching more SNW.
They were betrothed as children. That was mentioned in “Amok Time.” However, this can easily be made to fit since it’s a non-human civilization. There’s no reason customs would be the same–for example, we see that Spock is waiting for her to propose marriage.
I think they already established this Chapel is NOT the same one we saw on TOS. And that is an issue I have. If you want to do a direct prequel and use the same characters then there has to be a character link. You can’t change the character because you think a badass Chapel is more interesting than one who mainly pines for Spock. If you do a reboot, sure. Knock yourself out.
Her backstory is essentially the same. TOS Chapel did bio research as well but became a nurse and took a post on the Enterprise so she could see her fiance Roger Korby. One of the trailers also had Chapel showing interest in Spock.
It’s her personality that is completely different. She’s become the typical quippy new Trek character.
That’s what I was talking about. This does not look like a person who evolves into the Christine Chapel we saw on TOS. This is a completely different person.
Ah, got it. I wonder if they will try and give a reason for her personality change and mention Korby later or if they will forget about those things completely.
I actually liked all the characters but I do think La’An will be a more divisive one for all the obvious reasons. I did love Uhura though. She is basically the ‘Tilly’ on this show but toned waaaaaay down thankfully. I loved the exchange between her and the alien in the turbolift. It was really funny and unexpected. She’s very positive and upbeat and excited to explore. Her ‘cool’ line at the end really sums up who she will be.
Chapel is great but yeah she’s basically a completely different character from the original. I can’t imagine the original Chapel talking like her in any way and definitely not trying to chase down a patient lol. But I think she’s going to be a fan favorite.
For me, La’An stole the show…super compelling, intense, smart, sad and beautiful. Can’t wait to learn more about her, and am especially looking forward to ep 5, which I think I read will be a big ep for her.
Agreed. I was worried that her character was going to be yet another easter egg writ large; thankfully, that proved not to be the case.
Promise?
I’m not saying it to be edgy or to try to make a point so I can’t speak absolutely. I just feel crushed and saddened by what a mess Picard was. I see the same issues in the SNW pilot as I did in all the other new Trek shows and I don’t want to go through the same thing again, especially as TOS has always been my favourite and very special to me. If after a break I feel optimistic again or if reviewers I trust like it then I will probably begin watching. Maybe if I feel detached enough or a strong itch for new Trek I will watch it. But right now, I don’t want to.
Oh yeah don’t get me wrong,I did like the first episode but I also liked the first episode of every Discovery season and especially Picard. Yeah, both didn’t turn out great at the end lol.
And I don’t trust Akiva Goldsman at all. He made a mess running Picard and he’s running this show too. He seems to have some of the worst instincts of everyone making these shows right now. So I have more hope for the show but yeah it can still turn into a total mess. I can’t remotely blame ANYONE for having doubt in this show if you don’t like the other two live action shows at least. It can turn into a disaster really really fast. Look what happened with Picard this season after the first two episodes? But then look at Proidigy. It only got stronger after it’s few episodes so you never know.
I think most just have more faith right now because it’s more episodic and will hopefully run into less issues like the other two. If you’re that bothered, just wait until after the first season is over and hear how it all stacked up. If its good, binge watch it and save money in the process. God, I wish I did that with Picard lol.
Loved the episode and no disrespect to DSC or Picard, but I was ready for a bit of “old-school” Trek.
I also noticed T’Pring was more animated (or three-dimensional, or whatever description fits) than we see her in TOS but I would chalk it up to SNW creating the opportunity to explore Vulcan culture, or perhaps she is fed up with Spock’s work/life balance choices and is giving him the cold shoulder by the time we get to Amok Time. I can also get behind the idea that she has a personality that is attracted to Spock’s Human/Vulcan ancestry.
It would be funny if the waiter that complained about Spock and T’Pring kissing was Stonn.
Thumbs up to that comment!
I love this idea. Make it so!
I am so excited. Waiting to watch with whole family….
(Closes eyes, crosses fingers, does a prayer)
Please be good, please be good….. Horatio Hornblower in space, Wagon Train to the Stars, space the final frontier…. please be good….
At last, these guys have finally decided to make something that recreates the TOS view of the world, the universe and life in general. A bit of positivity and, more importantly, you end the episode with a smile on your face.
Mount is a strong lead and surrounded by a host of new characters that look like they might have their little bit in the show. Within one episode, they have given us more back story to all of them than most of Discovery after 4 seasons.
Since Nutrek started up with Discovery, I was always asking the same question; Who is this for? because it was quite baffling (especially Picard). Finally, I know who this is for; us, – the oldies who grew up with TOS and and new viewers who have come to Star trek through Abrams’ movies.
This is looking good.
My only quibble is: What a horrible haircut our new helm has.
+1
Regarding T’pring being atypical of Vulcans… she’s engaged to Spock, who is an oddity as Vulcans go, and whose family is somewhat weird. It isn’t a stretch to assume that T’pring might not be entirely traditional by Vulcan standards either.
Exactly, she is a Vulcan rebel with a cause!
Anyone who is a fan of the lute master P’Sal is OK in my PADD. While his new record is pretty good, nothing beats P’Sal’s live album: “Let’s go to my Car, ’cause I got the Pon Farr”, that had the hit single “Kal-if-fee Falling”.
I very much look forward to seeing more of the T’Pring – Spock relationship! If these two have a lovers spat along the way, then perhaps Spock could sing “Goin’ to the Chapel”.
Why does the snarky high school cafeteria dialogue have to so constantly pop up and remind us of the writers room? They should be invisible and the show should let us imagine we’re in the future. The actors are great, the story so far so good, but the intermittent snark has just go to go. Please.
Always remember that the people making these shows believe the material is beneath their talents and the modern patter (it’s not banter, it’s just repeating sounds to trick you into thinking it’s banter) is there because they’re just trying to spruce up what they perceive to be dumb and boring.
You guys must be fun at parties.
Their material sounds like it is probably better, so I imagine they are.
The must have hated the first two seasons of TNG, half of Voyager and all of Enterprise. LOL
Agreed, Mike. That took me out of the episode each time it happened.
“Dear Writers, the year is 2022, but you’re writing about people in the FUTURE. Please don’t write characters like they’re living in 2022. Ok, you can go have your milk and naps now.”
TOS was often written like it was 1966. And they often like it was 1966. You need to get over yourself.
*looked like it was 1966
Stop making hollow excuses for poor writing please… This 21st Century snark in a futuristic show is as 4th wall breaking as the 21st Century cussing in Picard. It breaks the language style/continuity of previous classic Trek shows too.
Stop calling anything you don’t like “poor writing.” This is better than TOS by a lot.
Stop trying to police people who offer informed dissenting views (that goes for both your comment to BusPunk and to Paine, for any interested moderator looking this thread over.)
Also, if your second sentence was actually supposed to be funny, I have to say, it just makes you sound stupid.
Huh ???
Other than the space hippy episode, I don’t recall 60’s slang intruding into any of the TOS scripts. No “cool!”, “you bet”, etc., etc. As for the look, none of the TOS male characters had long hair or big sideburns, etc. If you remember otherwise, please cite some examples.
The sideburns were starting to creep in towards the end of season 3. Kirk and Scotty got some nice chops in Turnabout Intruder.
Footage from Phase 2 showed some very 70s hair, including a long haired Vulcan.
TMP had McCoy come on board in a space disco lounge suit with very 70s color palettes.
80s and early 90s Trek looked and sounded very 80s and 90s. Pulaski’s short perm was uber 80s and the same hair many of our teachers and friend’s moms had (maybe even your own). Late TNG, DS9, and Voyager escaped that and only really looked 90s by the SFX and cinemetography (which I would argue is better than nu-Trek).
So on and so forth.
Fact is, Trek will always look and sound like the era it’s made in. That’s part of what makes the series distinct and enjoyable from each other, for better or for worse.
Exactly. Trek has always been dated, my kids look at TNG and laugh at how everyone dresses like the 80s in the future. Everyone talks like the ’80s, acts like the ’80s. It is what it is.
People are just DESPERATE to find flaws in this show. Move along if you don’t like new Trek at this point. I don’t spend my days ranting and raving over shows I don’t like year after year after year.
It’s been FIVE YEARS. These people need to move on with their lives. Seek help!
“You bet I’m tired. You bet.”
— The Cage (Pike)
Next?
Also pretty sure Riker said “you bet I’m angry” in “Frame of Mind.”
Like Kirk talking about dipping a girls hair in an inkwell. Totally archaic reference in 21st century let alone the 23rd century.
Of course. Some of this comments just kill me. LOL
Overall, I enjoyed the episode. It was an average episode with some of the usual Kurtzman, Goldsman issues but thanks to the incredible cast, the material was elevated. They managed to sell some moments that could have been terrible in the hands of less skilled performers.
The acting is good, the show looks good and while the writing in this episode was stronger or at least made to appear stronger by the talented cast, it is still the weakest link.
Minor issues but dear writers…please ground the science and technology a bit more. Spock’s injections wearing off would not happen that quickly…his ears just would not morph back into being. lol The worst part though was his hairstyle and eyebrows changing after he screamed. Come on now. haha The current folks in charge of Trek are not good at subtlety.
Anyway, I enjoyed it more than anything in the last few years so that’s a good start. Just step up the writing and get some real science fiction writers on the staff.
Honestly I get the complaint but I kinda feel like it is disingenuous to complain about a made up future tech wearing off “too soon”. It’s made up and they said it won’t last long. At least they followed their own rules.
Exactly!
You hit the nail on the head. The writing needs to be better. Skip the modern day slang, improve the science and write dialog that isn’t cringey, clunky and awkward. But the series has a lot of positives – the actors, sets and effects!
Saying someone hit the nail on the head doesn’t make it true.
I’m starting to wonder if you’re angling for a job with CBS or something, but don’t know how to go about getting it short of a John Hinckley-style demonstration.
(and yeah, that may be warnable, but reading this thread today is mostly just this guy trying to knock down dissenting views, and in most not all instances not offering up anything except snipes and demands to cease posting and/or watching.)
We’re getting censorship and wholesale rollback of civil rights on runaway in this country right now, and I really don’t need to see more of what seems like similar-minded crap here.
You bet!
/s
I absolutely loved the direct way that the writer took the bull by the horns where the central “social issue” – political polarization leading to catastrophe – was concerned.
A modern show can, and does, indeed “do better” than TOS. The kind of allegory that was perhaps admirable in 1966 is nothing but timidity today.
Agreed. Today’s audience can’t handle subtlety. I’m glad they went full bore. Throw the mirror up to people’s insanity.
Yep, it was fantastic!
The thing that struck me about this premiere is that it felt like they hit the ground running immediately! What a stellar cast of characters! They have the right ingredients for a long successful run, should the storytelling stay well managed. The story itself might have been a little too easy and familiar, but ultimately I cared more about the fact that this premiere seemed to get the crew and atmosphere just right. This premiere really rescued the franchise for me after the crushingly terrible 2nd half of Picard S2 and a dull season of Discovery. Episodic storytelling hopefully saves them from terrible season-destroying story arcs. All we really need are some good stories and great characters to inhabit them.
Naturally, I have some complaints. The ship exteriors look way too dark and textured, I wish they would tone that down a bit so it’s a little more consistent with TOS. Ethan Peck seems to be really straining the dialogue, he’s so tense he sounds like he has a peculiar accent I found hard to understand. He just needs to relax and find that smooth Spock tone, it’s in there, I can tell. And the ending did a tremendous amount of world building I’m not sure they can live up to, but I also found it too US-centric, but that’s consistent with TOS as well so I get it. And sure, a little heavy-handed on the current events considering the scope of 20th century+ sins.
About the ship… I really miss the white Enterprise. Why does it have to be so gray? So dark? Even the TMP refit kept it white. Also makes sense as the lack of light in space the white reflects what little light there is better, too.
It looks like it’s made from iron panels on the outside! Smooth white actually seems more futuristic, at least to me. The bridge largely looks pretty good, but do they have to have quite so many lights and shiny surfaces? You’d get a migraine daily working on that bridge for 5 years! That marks the ‘visual language’ differences between classic Trek and NuTrek to me – they got advisors in for design decisions on the original show, TMP and TNG etc. Functional, not just ‘cool’ for the sake of beimg cool. Minor quible though, and I’m looking forward to seeing this, despite having to wait until late June here in the UK. I just hope (from what I’ve read) they tone down the 21st Century style ‘banter’, sarcastic snark and colloquialisms. Breaks the 4th wall for me.
I love the bridge, but the outside reminds me of an expensive, ultra detailed, metal die cast model.
Except the TOS enterprise wasn’t white. It was (and currently is, if you go see it in the Smithsonian) a slight bit lighter than what I would call a battleship grey, but is indeed grey. They primitive blue screen technology and the bright lighting it required, made the ship look lighter than it was, and when you add to that the adjustment that broadcast engineers would make on the local level (make the blacks blacker! make the whites whiter!) it increased the contrast even more.
And yet on screen, it was white. At worse an “off-white”. It doesn’t matter what color the model was. What matters is what we saw on screen. It was white. And the TMP refit was even whiter.
Their counterargument is going to be that in TOS-R, it was more grey than white, but in order to cite that, I’d have to be willing to watch those versions. Based on most of one episode and a couple dozen clips, there’s no way that will ever happen, because if I want to watch a TREK cartoon I’ll watch TAS.
The high contrast is a big part of what makes TOS look work as well as it did, matte lines notwithstanding. As much as I love DS9 and the fact it took things to a more contrasty look than much of TNG (thankgod), it still didn’t go far enough some times, and I find TRIALS AND TRIBBLEATIONS exteriors to be a huge disappointment, since they undermined some nice models by lighting them without contrast and then comping them in a way that further undercut the look. Of course Rob Legato was long gone at that point.
the remasted tos episodes show it was grey not white
It’s been a little bit since I saw them but I do not recall the remastered episodes as grey at all. And certainly not nearly as dark as it appears on SNW.
see, i told you they were going to say tos-r is grey!
I agree as well. Maybe they are reading this and can lighten it up for S2 given they are probably just getting started on the SFX, if even.
Maybe the current look is all going off the ‘inner hull breach’ reference in DOOMSDAY MACHINE, and we’ll see that the ship gets cast with a white-grey outer hull veneer over the current ironworks before Kirk gets it.
Ah, want some lens flares?
Just reading that makes me want to reply in a similar vein to when Harvey Keitel’s character in RISING SUN refuses an offer of some fish to eat with, ‘If I want mercury, I’ll eat a thermometer.’
Best. Star Trek. Ever.
Not only do I agree, it has a chance to be the best first season of any Trek by a country mile.
Agreed, good friend, agreed.
Agreed about the possibilities of the best first season of Trek since TOS.
Not watched it yet, I am worried by the inclusion of T’Pring simply because I feel it may contradict Amok Time. However, from what I am hearing it seems to be back to the kind of spirit that has been missing, and that the main grip is the ‘modern’ language which I just find cringe-y, but I am used to that in the Kurtzman era.
But if the language is going to be the only gripe then that’s a step in the right direction alone.
OMG, this article is a review of the show and some fans who haven’t seen it are complaining about why they might not like what’s in it? LOL, Scotty, beam me out of here! :-)
This was outstanding!!! I want to watch it again and am really excited for what is to come.
The show only makes sense if it’s a reboot. Went in with that thought in mind and wasn’t bothered by any of the canon stuff. Got a good chuckle out of them repeatedly talking about That Thing We Can Never Talk About Again, though. But, again, that’s fine for a reboot.
Every alien civilization acting like 2022 human culture is probably why Henry Alonso Myers got the job. The Magicians tries so hard to have the characters act so modern day cool, be they magicians or demons or whatever. But it works, that’s a successful series, and Strange New Worlds looks primed to be the most successful Trek show of the 21st century.
The one thing that really got my attention was Pine’s talk about World War III. That was finally bringing into a live action show more details about something vaguely referenced in the other shows and I think it was done successfully. I liked how they chose to show it was a progression (culture war – civil war II – world war III).
I wonder if the eugenic wars are part of ww III?! We had a hint of Khan in PIC which implies that the eugenic wars still didnt happen AND ww III referenced in 2 shows the same day in Star Trek. I don’t believe it’s a coincidence.
I saw that as more leading to Soong and his augments as seen on Enterprise. The Eugenics wars (aka WWIII) took place before 2024.
Actually I took it as finally they gave it a much needed canon update and moved the Eugenics wars to the mid-21st century. Fine by me, as the 1990’s thing is getting harder and harder to buy into as time passes.
I don’t see how it is hard to buy. This isn’t real history. It’s fictional history. What are people going to do in 2063 when Vulcans don’t show up?
What you liked I hated. They added to humanities dim future when one of the things that turned me on to Trek was that Trek had a bright future for humanity. They eluded to a 3rd WW and then confirmed it was in fact the Eugenics wars. And that was it. Humanity got past it and here we are. No nuclear devastation. I liked that Trek never used that tired trope. And here is SNW dropping that tired silly bomb on us. Groan.
They merely detailed what had previously been left vague. The third world war came up in TOS and the nuclear death toll was enumerated in Star Trek: First Contact (RIker says, “600 million dead.”). It’s one of the rare times SH has talked to the audience without stopping the drama to explain things to the audience.
Yes… TOS first brought up a WWIII then clarified it as the Eugenics Wars. It was kept vague because that was the proper way to do it. No reason to nail things down and give out details because the details aren’t important. That we grew from it was. And there are things that ought to be left for fandom to debate rather than spell it out for them. Sure, First Contact mentioned 600 million dead. They upped the stakes but there was still no reason to believe there was nuclear devastation. The lore originally was get got past it without using them. Which was still a positive thing and set Star Trek apart from other bleak future sci-fi that all seemed to be set in some bleak post apocalyptical future. Trek had none of that. That drew me to it because it was different. Unique.
It is reasonable to interpret Data’s line from First Contact:
According to our astrometric readings we’re in the mid twenty-first century. From the radioactive isotopes in the atmosphere I would estimate we have arrived approximately ten years after the Third World War.
as being an indication that there was nuclear aspect to WWIII. Also, previously, in Encounter at Farpoint, Data and Picard remark upon the show trial courtroom:
Historically intriguing, captain. Very, very accurate.”
“Mid-21st century. The post-atomic horror.”
A reasonable interpretation of this is that World War III involved nuclear devastation.
Yes… That was a canonical error. It happens. Like Khan recognizing Chekov. It happens. And the Farpoint thing was a Q fantasy. Can’t take that as honest.
A fantasy? Why would Data say it’s “very, very accurate,” then? And why would Picard bother to label a fantasy as a “post-atomic horror”?
Beats me. It still didn’t jibe with what was presented before.
The Khan thing isn’t a canonical error either, we just didn’t happen to see any evidence of Chekov onboard during 1st season.
TOS told us about the Eugenics Wars which McCoy called World War III and was not corrected in Space Seed. Spock in Bread and Circuses mentioned 37 million dead in the Third World War. If there was no nuclear devastation, what was the “Post-Atomic Horror” Picard and Data discussed in Encounter at Farpoint? How were most of Earth’s cities destroyed, as Riker says in First Contact? Riker also elevated the death toll way about Bread and Circuses when he cited 600 million dead. That’s far less than Pike cites here, but he might have been exaggerating for effect, since he was basically trying to scare the aliens silly.
I agree with basically most of your points. And yes I think if you have issues with the canon you have to look at it as a reboot. But I think that’s been the case since Discovery first showed up obviously and we have to remember this is a spin off show from Discovery. But yeah, I think a lot of things will be changed. Question is will it go too far? Some people, just changing the look of the Enterprise is going too far lol. But most will probably be OK with it IF the show is good. If it’s not, then yeah it’s going to be a lot of complaining ie, Discovery.
And I definitely loved the references to WW 3. I’m always a sucker for stuff like that, learning about Trek’s past history. It was another reason why I was so disappointed with Picard this season. WW 3 is right around the corner by 2024 but not a single mention of it anywhere. It wasn’t an issue or even part of why the future would be changed for the worst. One of the many (better) theories fans had about the season was that maybe it was bad because WW 3 DIDN’T happen and was going to be a lesson why history has to play out as it always did, even for the worst. But nope, we got some vague nonsensical story line about Picard’s great, great, great, great Aunt or whatever going to Europa that will naturally create utopia over it or something.
Anyway, hoping SNW will be good and liking the direction so far.
I definitely considered the Discovery-spinoff aspect of this and I think at the end of the day, the simplest description that unifies everything without a second thought is that they both take place in a reboot universe. Star Trek: Picard is harder to bring into that idea because it uses the same actors and ties into events which ST09 intended to be a part of the Prime universe, too. If they start *meaningfully* connecting Picard to the other shows, then the SNW & DISCO are a part of rebootworld notion takes a hit for sure. But right now, I think it’s just much, much, much easier to view it as though Disco and Strange New Reboot are the first forays into this science fiction fantasy idea called Star Trek.
I know we been back and forth on this before. Again I can buy your argument IF it’s in a rebooted universe. But if they keep suggesting it’s all part of the same Prime Universe but radically change things it’s only going to cause problems.
But yeah I think all the prequel shows should just be in its own universe so they can change whatever they want.
I love that they sort of did a canon move of the Eugenics Wars to coincide with the mid-21st century WWIII. That whole 1990’s thing gets more and more bothersome in terms of believability every year.
Ok, this made me happy. There are nitpicks. Namely the name drop at the start, and the follow up / reveal at the end. It was just a little too cute. But to have a story that more or less wraps up by the end of the episode… so happy with that. Anson Mount is still absolutely fantastic, and the show will succeed because of him. If you get the big things that matter, the audience will forget a lot of the nitpicks. We’ll see how it goes, but this is a great start.
Personally, I loved that gag.
It would probably have worked fine for me if they didn’t do this kind of thing all the time in all their other properties.
I honestly don’t know what you’re referencing. It was a fresh gag for me. If it’s something everyone else is doing, I suppose fair enough.
I just loved that.
WOW! Now THIS is what I’ve been waiting for. The premiere of Strange New Worlds marks a return to a more traditional form of Star Trek, and boy is it fun! Let’s look at this episode piece by piece:
(First, I have to confess something: I’m not a huge TOS fan, and I’m not super well versed in it, so I’m probably going to miss/ignore a lot of the TOS connections in my reviews). Does that make me a bad Trekkie? Who knows!
We open with Pike at his home in Montana, with a full beard and deep resistance to returning to the Captain’s chair. It’s clear from the start that SNW isn’t going to ignore Discovery, as much of this episode (and season, I suspect), is devoted to Pike grappling with his awful fate. It’s only when he learns that Una is in danger that he agrees to go back out into space.
Una is trapped on a pre-contact planet that, through observing the battle at the end of Discovery S2, has developed warp – not for exploration, but for war. What follows is an old-school Trek tradition: disguising as aliens and beaming down to the planet. Here, we meet Doctor M’Benga and Nurse Chapel, both played with a sense of fun. Also, can I just say that I love the return to aliens that are basically humans with silly putty on their foreheads? I’m loving the return to campiness. I thought that was absolutely delightful. And the scene where the alien is running down the hall of the Enterprise, being chased by Chapel, and Uhura using her cultural smarts to calm him down, was really fun.
Biggest laugh out loud moment: Pike smirking and saying “take me to your leader”.
After diving into the fun, the episode takes a turn towards the serious as Pike delivers an old-school morality lesson to the planet’s leaders. He presents two choices: follow the path of 21st century Earth – a second American civil war, Eugenics War, and WWIII -, or the path of peace and understanding followed by the UFP. The message is perfectly delivered, although I imagine the episode’s very deliberate and explicit commentary on America’s current political climate, including images from the J6 insurrection, will anger a small group of fans who simply do not understand Trek’s message.
We wrap up with a return to Spacedock and the onboarding of the remaining crew. Early on in the episode, they had mentioned a Lt. Kirk, and I was concerned they were already bringing Jim on, which would be a mistake. Instead, it’s his brother. I still feel like that’s a mistake.
Couple last comments. I came into the episode deeply skeptical of SNW having a relative of Khan onboard, and I remain just as skeptical now. It was the only piece of this episode I feel didn’t fit well. I hope they fix that. Finally, as a severely disabled man, the ableism of the treatment of Pike’s fate has always troubled me. Yes, what he endures is horrible, but you can still live a very full life with a severe disability. It’s not the end. I know it’s hard to fix Trek’s treatment of it since it was baked in 60 years ago, but I’d like to see SNW take a less ableist stance towards Pike’s fate. However, I’m optimistic, since Hemmer will be a blind character played by a blind man, and I hope that’s a sign of things to come on that front.
This was a really fun, incredibly promising episode full of hope and more clarity, and I can’t wait to see what this show becomes. The future is bright!
Rating: 9.5/10
Well, to be fair, Starfleet didn’t retire Pike’s commission after getting his injuries, and I think he was more disturbed by his future self’s appearance more than being restricted.
“After diving into the fun, the episode takes a turn towards the serious as Pike delivers an old-school morality lesson to the planet’s leaders. He presents two choices: follow the path of 21st century Earth – a second American civil war, Eugenics War, and WWIII -, or the path of peace and understanding followed by the UFP. The message is perfectly delivered, although I imagine the episode’s very deliberate and explicit commentary on America’s current political climate, including images from the J6 insurrection, will anger a small group of fans who simply do not understand Trek’s message.”
You said this perfectly, dude! THANKS!
This was excellent, a return to roots so to speak. I think they needed to make an episodic show earlier and spin-off the more serlalized ones from there. The thing I personally loved in this episode was the bigger sickbay and of course it has its own transporter pad. The actors are all good and the only question mark I really had was about Tpring. Was it the actress’s choice to act less vulcany or the producers? It did stand out quite a bit especially with Spock around. Perhaps they are gonna give more explanation to that later.
I think this will become the signature show of the secret hideout stuff.
Premature to say perhaps, but I think you may be right. I think the episodic nature of the show will make it leaps and bounds better than the rest.
Not only that, but this series seems to be getting some serious mainstream attention. I head them talking about it on NPR today. If that continues, I start to wonder if this is the beginning of the return of episodic prestige TV, and the slowing of serialized storytelling.
To be absolutely honest, if this does happen it will be for the best. I think “prestige, serial” shows kind of went as far as they could and a return to episode or maybe arc-based prestige tv might be the better way in the long run.
*Completely* disagreed. Episode-based TV is (at its worst) infantilizing and at its best superficial. (Without the gloss of “we’re introducing all these new characters” the Kiley plot would have seemed highly simplistic.)
Actors are eager to do television these days precisely because it’s now serialized. As late as the 1990s, actors would leave TV series because they perceived a movie career as an upgrade. (Michelle Forbes is a case in point.)
There’s a reason why the last season of BETTER CALL SAUL is getting so much buzz.
You believe everything old is bad, everything new is good, I don’t happen to share that belief. Episodic TV is not as all infantilizing. In fact it is much harder to do and you need to be much more creative to do quality episodic TV. I also have one question for you, do you really believe that all the serialized shows of Trek will be remembered in the future more than the memorable single episodes like “City on the Edge of forever”, “Inner Light”, “Measure of a Man”, “In the Pale Moonlight” etc… I don’t think so, at least not in terms of the episodes themselves. The last season of Better Call Saul is getting so much buzz not because it is serialized but because it is excellently made and a very good show in general.
To address the specific examples you cited:
1. “City on the Edge of Forever” was indeed wonderful. The fact that it affected Kirk not *one* single iota in any subsequent episode cheapened it.
2. “The Inner Light” (which I agree that in and of itself was appropriate for a short story format) absolutely affected Picard in the future. It had a direct sequel, “Lessons.” It also helped Picard become closer to his crew (“All Good Things”) and likely informed his decision in “Tapestry.” (The writers’ room evidently kicked around the possibility of another direct sequel in which the real Eline was found in stasis.)
3. “Measure of a Man” was the beginning of a huge story arc for Data, one that had repercussions to this day (cf. Picard season one). “The Offspring” was almost a direct sequel to it, not to mention episodes like “Redemption II,” “The Most Toys,” “Birthright,” “Brothers,” etc.
4. The clearest example is “In the Pale Moonlight.” It was part and parcel of a multi-season long Dominion War arc. It would not have worked outside that context.
I’ve no idea whether the serialized Secret Hideout era will be remembered more than those episodes. If it’s not, it’s for reasons utterly unrelated to serialization. DS9 and seasons 3-4 of ENT (particularly the latter) show that serialization can work extraordinarily well on Star Trek; indeed, even the proto-serialization of late TNG shows that. VOY, which often disappointed because of that endless supply of shuttlecraft and rations and the big ‘ol reset button at the end of every episode (“Year of Hell Part I” notwithstanding), also shows the risks of an episodic approach.
My counter-question for you is whether you think STRANGE NEW WORLDS is going to be remembered more than season six of BETTER CALL SAUL, particularly outside the narrow Trek enthusiast fan base. The plot of the SNW pilot was remarkably threadbare if you took out the character introductions, which anything beyond the first handful of episodes will need to do. Spock boffing T’Pring is not character development.
And it’s not just BETTER CALL SAUL. It’s THE AMERICANS and MAD MEN and all the other marquee shows of the past decade. For the first time in Hollywood history, A-listers want to be in television, not movies, and it’s thanks to the complex narratives and characterization that serialized shows offer.
Bryan Cranston was never going to guest star in Season 35 of “Knight Rider” featuring a geriatric Michael Knight romancing the hottie-of-the-week divorcee played by a soap opera star who got her big break. The awful revivals of shows like MacGyver and The Bionic Woman attest to this. Even Hawaii Five-0 doesn’t hold a candle to the original.
But Bryan Cranston himself did star in standalone TV back in the day in X-files so I still reject your idea that episodic TV is all infantile. While there may be some infantile episodes in there, there are also absolute memorable episodes that will be remembered for years to come because they are standalone. And I agree with you that the best format of standalone is having a general, bigger arc with smaller standalone episodes by itself like Stargate and X-files used to do so effectively and to a certain extent Star Trek Enterprise and DS9. The reason most of the revival of old standalone shows sucks was because they were incompetently made. I mean did you even see the guy they chose for the new McGyver? I just think a little more open mindedness is required for the standalone format.
I don’t know why you are so against having episodic Star Trek again, but you seem to be the only one bothered by it. And obviously that’s fine, but your argument for serialized story telling is weird because you assume just being serialized will make it a better show when in reality there is just as many bad serial shows as there are episodic ones. Yes, the ones that are good are really good but it doesn’t mean just doing it makes it prestigious TV.
And that very example goes to Discovery and Picard. We’ve had six seasons of those shows being serialized. In your opinion, are the shows anything close to the comparison of Mad Men, The Americans or Better Call Saul? That’s where your argument falters, you seem to assume Star Trek is in the same category as those when we already had six straight seasons of serialized stories and for a lot of fans out there it’s gone the opposite way.
Which is exactly why fans want a return to episodic TV because the serial approach has not done these new shows any favors. Now I’m not suggesting you can’t do great Star Trek with that format. DS9 prove you can of course, but even that show was never truly serialized the way most dramas are today. They still had tons of standalone episodes every season. And the show didn’t really become more serialized until season 6 when the war officially started. It started in season 3 but the Dominion threat was mostly just in the background sans a few stories until then.
Enterprise also did a serialized season with the Xindi arc of course but again, not every episode was telling the same story. It too still had episodes that were completely standalone from the main story.
The problem with Discovery and Picard is their stories are so big it’s hard to do completely different stories within their structures. Discovery has done standalone episodes every season too, but there are usually 2-3 at best and I think fans want to see different types of stories. But that is hard to do when you only have 13 episodes and the fate of the galaxy dominant the story line every season. Picard is completely serialized but if you hated both seasons, then it’s hard watching it again. And I don’t want to ever rewatch that season again minus the first two episodes.
So now they are going back to basics. If DIS and PIC was a little more successful with that approach, then yes SNW probably would be a serial too. But seeing how badly the group running Star Trek has done with the format today I don’t get why you are so determined to keep doing something that is clearly not working for them as successfully as other current shows?
They need to up this to 15 eps a season stat.
Finally!!!! The heart of Trek is back!!!!!!
That was Jupiter Station at the end (not Spacedock), if you noticed some of Jupiter’s moons in the background. Pike gave a back story about how it was created.
Also, did anyone notice the Wrath of Kahn musical notes when La’an and Piker were chatting in the conference room?
Pike mentioned the Enterprise was in for regular maintenance, so the end scene in DISC season 2, still works. The Enterprise has already been out to space, before SNW. In the first review it was suggested, the Enterprise was still being repaired from the DISC season 2 finale.
All in all, great episode.
But isn’t Jupiter Station **a** spacedock?
I’ve always equated Spacedock with Earth. Any other space station in Star Trek usually has a specific name, right? But I’ll freely admit being wrong.
I just rewatched. Uhura calls it Starbase 1.
Sure, but to me, I think the term “space dock” has always just meant any place a ship docks to make repairs. So spacedock can be at a starbase, in orbit of a planet, etc. Who knows, it’s nitpicking.
Was that a Jupiter or Saturn spacedock in STID? (Yea, I know it’s the Kelvin timeline, but still)
Yep, you can even see the Great Red Spot.
That might not be *THE* Jupiter Station. Who is to say that the station that was mentioned as “Jupiter Station” is the only one orbiting Jupiter?
I’ve managed to stay clear of any spoilers and detailed reviews and will look forward to 4 hours of awesome Star Trek up here north of the border. Thankfully there is no Leaf playoff game haha.
Star Trek DS9 – Inquisition
Star Trek – Picard Season Finale
Star Trek – Strange New Worlds Premiere
Star Trek DS9 – In the Pale Moonlight
I know many hate Section 31 and the fact that Starfleet was not squeaky clean in the Dominion War, but considering this is not a “best of” or a special fan poll compilation of shows, tonight’s Sci-Fi channel lineup here in Toronto has a chance to arguably be the finest 4 shows of Trek ever to be consecutively broadcast.
We shall see if Picard and SNW can deliver the goods and make it so!
Ah, yes, “In the Pale Moonlight,” the episode where Star Trek died as the result of dudes who hated Gene Roddenberry slitting its throat. Enjoy.
As I said above, I know some Trek fans hate section 31 and perhaps dislike DS9 in general. I guess you are one of them. I for one hope SNW appeals to you.
When it first aired, I too did not watch much of it, but I revisited the series about 10 years after it aired. Today I think DS9 produced some of the finest Star Trek episodes ever created.
Sounds great DeanH! I sometimes forget Star Trek is still shown on regular TV lol. Can’t wait to hear your thoughts on both Picard and SNW! And yes, great DS9 episodes to cushion them.
Maybe the S31 series could work if they go episodic versus serialized?
Different missions every episode could be more fun and interesting. Maybe an occasional 2 parter.
Promising! Very promising! Looking forward to more more more.
But, oh brother— was fearful of cannon disruption early on. False alarm—I think.
Anson Mount riding a horse, thought I was watching Hell On Wheels again for a moment there!
I like how they jump right into a canon violation – it was made abundantly clear in Amok Time Spock and T’Pring hadn’t seen each other since they were kids. So, we’re in an alternate universe. Please, just say so and let’s be done with it. I said the same thing when DSC premiered. It would make it so much easier for me to enjoy these shows. (Spoiler Alert – she winds up with Stonn…maybe(?).
The visuals are stunning, of course. None of the live-action Kurtzman-era shows have suffered in that area. Kudos to the production values here. The space sfx are the nicest yet in SNW out of any of the current shows, I think. Musical score, stirring, excellent. The Big-E, lovely.
A lot of the banter and mannerisms between the crew I find pretty childish, not befitting those serving on a starship, but I get the need to draw kids to the show. “Cool,” “weird,” “pissed off?” Are these terms anyone would use serving in any kind of enlisted service, unless they were off-duty? I’ll be 56 this year, and it shows :)
I imagine the Gorn will be showing up this season, since they were mentioned so often by La’an. Why the Enterprise crew was so shocked to encounter them in “Arena(?)” – alternate universe. I like the La’an character, and again, WHY does she have to be related to Khan??
Personally, I liked the story here. Light with heavy undertones ( I could have done without seeing the earth blown up in WW3, btw), and a good chance to display the type of exposition and values we’ll be looking at in the show. Anson Mount does some nice work here, a good leader, sympathetic yet firm.
I liked the episode, and will probably watch it again before E2. I’m just going to head-canon my way out of this being in the same timeline as TOS, and hopefully will enjoy the show just fine.
Seriously, stop embarrassing yourself.
Read on, a number of other long-term fans here agree. I’m hardly alone in ’embarrassing’ myself. Continuity and canon matter to some people.
I’d suggest a rewatch of Amok Time.
Reading between the lines and developing our own head canon is part of the experience.
But we shouldn’t hold on to inferences we (or Treklit authors) have made as if it was actually stated onscreen.
I love coherence, and canon can help immensely with that, but the new shows have no obligation to toe the line of our head canon.
For me, they got just about everything right: Characters, story, viduals. On its first outing Strange New Worlds definitely lived up to the hype. OMG I love not being able to wait until next week. I could go on but damn that was good Star Trek seems just right. It’s love on first sight.
Well, that was fun! I accept that Canon is going to be “fluid” at times. That’s okay with me if it means that we will get good storytelling.
After all, it is ultimately about entertainment and taking us to a world that we (mostly) know and love. Let them tweak our assumptions in service of the stories.
Back in Discovery season two, I was fully prepared not to like Ethan Peck’s Spock. He has grown on me. I was also hoping that Anson Mount’s Pike would be a bit more intense and pensive– yet the homespun wisdom suits the character well. This SNW pilot did bring back more of the brooding Pike.
A great start. I want more!
I loved this in the sense that it unquestionably had the feel of “Star Trek” to me, which is a thing the new live-action shows have only done occasionally.
The episode itself was nothing special, though. It brings up so many continuity questions that it leaves me with no choice but to consider the entire series to be a reboot; so there’s that. But even that aside, it just never quite grabbed me. Which is fine! There are plenty of episodes of the older shows that don’t grab me, either, but still feel like a warm blanket. Not a problem, I can cope with that.
Hmmm…
Not impressed. There were some fun things but other ridiculous things. And I’m not talking about the windmills. I got a small kick out of Kyle manning the transporter. That was cute. And I did get a bit of a charge when Kirk turned out to be James’ brother. I didn’t have a big problem with the Spock-T’Pring thing. Although it does make him looking at the photo of her as a child a little creepy. What really rubbed me the wrong way here was the lame way the problem was resolved. It referenced all these wars that never really stuck me as canon. I don’t care what TNG said, from what I can see the Eugenics wars WERE WWIII. Period. Was not a fan of them calling out the 2nd American Civil war, either. To me, one of the things that drew me to Trek was the optimistic view of humanity. That there was no nuclear devastation like you saw in most Sci-Fi at the time. So points taken away when this show decided to paint a VERY dim view of humanities future. It was a tremendous turn off.
The other turn off was the continuing visions Pike had with “knowing” his future. This issue just doesn’t work for me. Spock should have reminded him that he had no way of really knowing what his future holds and no matter what was shown him doesn’t make that future reality. Instead he just added fuel to that psychological fire going on in Pike’s head. Not a good or even logical move.
They should have used an alien other than the Gorn. It was pretty obvious that in Arena the Gorn were not known. This episode shows that a great deal about them was known. Which is a complete contradiction of Arena. Huge mistake and the kind of glaring mistake Secret Hideout has often made.
Not sure what the big deal was with “Prime Directive” vs. “General Order One.” It’s the Prime Directive because it’s the first of the General Orders.
And there were just some odd moments that I guess were supposed to play as character moments involving La’an that I just didn’t see as any kind of big deal. At least, not with the info provided.
At any rate, the first episode was a misstep. There is time to recover and I truly am hoping it does. Unlike Star Trek Discovery this show shows promise. I just hope they don’t screw it up.
Why was that a tremendous turn off for you? Star Trek has had that “it gets worse before it gets better” theme with the Eugenics Wars and WW3 for a long time.
The Eugenics wars were WWIII. And it’s one thing to get punched to the ground before getting back up. But in this version we get punched to the ground and kicked and pummeled and nearly killed. That is an awfully pessimistic viewpoint. Something that was not very Star Trek.
This has been covered before. Riker in First Contact states that six hundred million were killed in the war, plus TNG showed us the “Post Atomic Horror” with drumhead courts and drug addicted soldiers.
Yes, that’s dark and pessimistic, but why suddenly take issue with this now?
I’m not. I thought it was dumb when TNG did it and since it was just a Q fantasy and sorta went against what was presented in TOS then I never felt it should be taken as serious canon. So I don’t.
Alright, well, I can’t add anything more than a shrug.
[shrug]
By the way, the ship was called the Phoenix for good reason. Y’know, to rise from the ashes…
Yeah. Some 80 years after the fire.
First Contact takes place ten years after the end of WW3. But people are allowed to name things in reference to historical events looong after they occur.
I thought it takes place some 70+ years after WWIII.
I actually don’t disagree with much of your points IF these things bothers others. As far as WW 3, that’s been canon for decades now. You can’t blame that on this show, it’s been a big part of Star Trek for a long time and it’s been followed by stuff like First Contact obviously and latter New Eden. I will agree that the Eugenics wars probably was originally suppose to be WW 3 but it was retconned. So much of Star Trek has been so that how things roll as we know.
I didn’t understand the ‘Prime Directive’ vs General Order thing either. In fact I missed it completely when I watched it. People kept making references to it on Reddit when I had to go back and watch the scene again. I mean, yeah, hasn’t it always been called the Prime Directive?? Didn’t they call it that in Discovery many times? Maybe they didn’t I guess?
The Gorn thing also agree but yeah this is par for the course at this point.That is probably considered pretty minor in the scheme of things. And they were only in one episode. The Spock/T’Pring stuff will definitely be a bigger sticking point though. Why I wish they would just avoid prequels altogether if you’re just going to avoid anything you don’t like but its OK if the show itself is good I guess.
Well this isn’t just a prequel thing. Just look at what Discovery has done and they are 900 years removed from where they started. And they still manage to screw things up.
Yeah but your only issue with the Gorn is because they aren’t suppose to meet them yet. And said I get it, but I don’t think its a huge deal personally. The Gorn has just been basically a reference point in most shows. They aren’t exactly a big species in the franchise like Romulans, Borg or Cardassians are and a real detailed back story. I think (and just a guess) they want to do more with them. If so I’m good with that.
But the shows that do more with the Gorn need to be the ones that take place AFTER TOS. I know that Coto was jonsing to get a Gorn in on Enterprise when he took over but knew there was no way he could. Same with the Tholians. He was able to in his MU episodes.
After reading that other article it really sounds like this show is being treated like it was the original pilot that got picked up and are ignoring everything (except the events from Star Trek Discovery) that came before it. Fine… But, and this is an OLD complaint…. Call it a GD REBOOT!!!!!!!!!
I don’t disagree but do you see Picard or Discovery seriously doing any Gorn related episodes? We saw them on LDS actually but again as a joke mostly.
We knew the second they put Khan’s great granddaughter on the show they were going to do questionable things. But I don’t think the Gorn is really a big deal in itselt. It was one episode on TOS and they were never mentioned again. Now if it was someone like the Romulans it would be more sensitive to do. And someone wrote on another board Lorca had a Gorn skeleton on Discovery, so they already retcon that canon awhile ago now.
But of course we always agreed these shows should just be rebooted. SNW is clearly doing what Discovery did and will change whatever it deems fit while keeping the greater whole together. But if you are a stickler for canon, this show is going to run all over that unfortunately.
This is in the category of “don’t sweat the small stuff.”
I never thought I would be so happy to return to alien forehead-of-the-week and I’m ALL for it all! This was a return to classic Star Trek in all it’s glory!
As fans we claim we want something new and different from the Roddenberry/Berman era of Star Trek, but in the end this is Star Trek for most people. To just stumble on a planet, meet (mostly humanoid) aliens, solve whatever crisis they are having that relates to us in some way and move on to the next thing by the end of the episode to start a new adventure the next time.
And this episode was soooooo preachy! I LOVED It lol! Every second of it! Pike telling the aliens how much better they can do if they learn from how badly we screwed things up for ourselves is once again, what Star Trek does a lot! And the episode basically hinting Trump and his goons will lead us into a second Civil War was pretty much on the nose lol. That really really really sounds about right!
Really loved the episode. Not amazing, but good! It really did harken back to classic Star Trek in all the best ways possible. I really like the story and how they resolved it. Very unorthodox but very Star Trek at the same time! It was a light episode (and funny) but the pre-text was heavy at the same time.
All the characters look like they will be fun and loved the Samuel Kirk inclusion. Great surprise!
I know the canonistas are going to hack this episode to death though lol. They are really going to challenge the continuity of TOS in many many ways. But I’m not going to be overly bothered right now. It’s just nice to see classic Star Trek in live action form FINALLY after the missteps of Discovery and Picard. Hopefully they don’t screw it up too much going forweard!
Wait… THAT was your take away? We all have our sides and I was not happy with how they did this but at least they didn’t blame one side over the other. It was presented as a failure on both sides was what led to that ridiculous 2nd Civil War. And that was Pike’s message to the warring factions on that planet. I thought that was pretty obvious.
You have any idea how many Trumpsters out there has been claiming another civil war is coming because the election was ‘stolen’ from him lol.
Here is a great example:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/petersuciu/2021/10/10/civil-war-trending-on-twitter-after-comment-made-by-trump-supporter/?sh=165d014f1853
I’m not saying that’s what the episode itself was saying though. I think as you said, it was a mix of all the issues we’re facing these days and yes on all sides. But that’s obviously one of them, right? How could it NOT be if you have a third of the electorate GENUINELY believe Democracy was stolen from them and they want to take it back? Just imagine for a second if it was true and a Presidential election was stolen? It probably could lead to one if that was really the case. But even you are smart enough to know it’s total bullshit thankfully but you still support the moron, but that’s your right.
But I don’t believe one will happen because it’s not true obviously and it’s not enough of those idiots who want one to happen out there thankfully. But I never thought I live to day to see a real insurrection happen on the capitol and here we are.
It’s not the first time people on the losing side thought there were shenanigans going on in presidential elections. 1960, 2000, and 2016 all come to mind. It seems it’s not uncommon. And let’s not make the mistake that Twitter trends are representative of predominant thinking in the US. A number of “journalists” make that mistake but it absolutely is not.
I never thought I would ever see an actual insurrection here in the US. And I still haven’t. Although I felt like we came close in that summer of 2000 with all those riots and people trying to destroy federal buildings (and actual killings) and whatnot… One could argue that was as close as we got but I wouldn’t call that one either. Certainly better organized than the 1/6 crowd but still… No.
I think the point was that if we continue to say things like “if you disagree with me then you are a racist/fascist” that sort of thing does not bode well for us working together in the future. That is not a politically bent concept. It’s more of a warning. And a proper Star Trek warning, too. At least, that’s how I see it.
This is the first time soneone on the losing side tried to attempt a coup over it man.
You’re trying to spin the indefensible. In 2000, when it was questionable with Gore and Bush A. there really WAS a question of who won because the votes were so close in a swing state to the point different results were called for each candidate and B. they settled it by taking it to court. It was ruled and a LOT of people who voted for Gore hated that he stepped aside but let the law play out as it should. Gore didn’t try to seize voting machines or call up secretaries of states to not recognize the vote and etc. You’re always trying to spin that people did worst things did Trump lol. Gore accepted he lost. He wasn’t whining a year later the election was stolen from him.
Trump LOST! It WASN’T close. Every state that called it for Biden never showed anything else since. Trump went to court 60 times man. Sixty! And they lost every.single.case minus one because they had no proof. That’s when it was time for Trump to just show a HINT of integrity, admit he lost and to just step aside. He was able to contest what he wanted just like the other prior elections. The guy had his day in court and he lost. Instead of just doing the right thing, the POS tried to get his goons to stop a fair election and why January 6th will be a stain for years to come.
And no offense, I like you, but it’s sad you’re even defending with this POS did! And if YOU are trying to condone or hand wave is disgusting actions, then think of his really mentally challenged supporters out there. That’s what is scary. Look what they tried to do?
Trump losing shows why he should’ve never been President. We had peaceful transitions of power for over 200 years. Trump was the first one to attempt an insurrection because his ego couldn’t accept he lost. God this man is such a POS!
We agree about the episode overall, it was definitely a warning. I said that, it’s not just one side. But obviously you don’t put in those images unless you’re a making a direct point.
This is what I was saying about getting past differences. There are people who just don’t want to be reasonable and hash things out. It’s ‘the way I see it is the one and only one way it could possibly be and anyone who sees it differently is just a crazy person.” That’s awfully hard to get past.
I wouldn’t have gone that route had it not been needlessly brought up. I am not defending the indefensible. Are you ignoring the horrid riots of 2020 that cause billions of $ in damage and took countless lives? The only death on 1/6 was an unarmed woman shot by a Cap Police. And we still have no idea what exactly transpired there. The first case heard was dismissed. Gore got his day in court. SCOTUS (with Trump appointees on it I might add) opted to not hear cases for standing. That does not mean there was not case in their opinion. It just means they opted not to hear them. They could have put it to rest had they just heard the case no matter how they ruled. And talk about someone who never stopped claiming they were cheated… Hillary Clinton never shut up about it. She still cries about it.
I am not defending the 1/6 rioters just like I don’t defend the 2020 rioters. It was all awful. But the fact is 1/6 was not orchestrated by the bad orange man. At all. Just read the transcript. It was not endorsed and he sent a message out for them to stop. Everyone on the right denounced it. Everyone. Again, the yahoos were NOT trying to take over the government. They had no weapons. No support of any kind. They weren’t thinking. They were riled up by certain bad elements in the crowd (away from the President’s rally, btw).
Yes, Trump can be a schmuck. Yes, Trump has a mouth problem. Yes, I was as anti Trump as you could get in 2016. But watching how well he did his job and how he ended up being correct on nearly everything…. I changed my tune. I accepted his personality flaws because the job got done. I can admit when I Was wrong. And I was wrong there.
I only bring this up when others do. So if we don’t want these political discussions it would probably be best not to keep bringing up the guy who is 18 months removed from public office. Might want to focus on our CIC who has to be told what to do by the Easter Bunny.
LOL they definitely weren’t thinking. That’s the problem man.
And I bought it up because they showed the images on the episode. They were making a statement. Are you REALLY surprised over that? The right keep saying all the new Star Trek shows are basically made to just dump on Trump which I DON’T believe but yeah a little lol.
And you can certainly believe Trump was a good President, but no I thought he did a lot of AWFUL things. He is far from a great President and why he LOST! But yes, part of that was just his behavior and people got tired of the crazy circus. People may not like Biden, but he’s not writing 100 tweets every other day like a hurt man child lol. But OK, we’ll leave it here. If you need to respond, no problem, I won’t respond back.
I don’t buy the idea that nu-Trek was just to dump on orange man. That’s ridiculous and I doubt it’s a very popular idea among… Anyone. And honestly I’d rather have the press going ape sh!t over stupid tweets but no inflation and no wars than have what we have now. But some people think essentially it is better to have everything go to hell so long as there aren’t any mean tweets. They got their way and many are regretting it.
But no worries. I take none of this personally. My best friend was on the other side of the spectrum as me. He’s gone now and I miss him terribly but sometimes we did get some good arguments going. It never hurt our friendship. I’ve often felt that if the two sides behaved more like the two of us did things would be much better. Oh well…
WOW !!!
“You’re trying to spin the indefensible.”
Yep!
Trump belongs in jail for 1/6! If he was living in any other western country and tried to pull that he probably would be.
Since when is holding a political rally illegal? In any western country?
Dude, again, you’re just spinning. Trump told these morons an election was STOLEN from him and that the only way to stop it was for Mike Pence to do his ‘job’ which literally translated to illegally stopping the vote count as if that alone would keep this moron in power lol. And then he instructed the herd to head to the capital. Dude, he already got these people hot and bothered. They thought a crime was being committed because he TOLD them it was.
Now, I’m not saying he was responsible for them breaking in the capital, but once they did and he saw the chaos around, he had the obligation to speak up and could’ve stopped it. He did nothing for 3 hours and just sat on his fat ass because he DIDN’T want it to stop!
There are HUNDREDS of text messages from everyone in his circle from his son to Sean fucking Hannity begging his Chief of Staff to get Trump to do something and he did NOTHING for 3 hours. Congressman in the Capital, his own supporters calling him to do something and he dismissed them too.
Imagine someone was breaking into your house because someone told them you abducted a kid even though you didn’t. Then imagining calling for help but the only person who can help you is the person who told the people you abducted the kid in the first place. But yet, decided to do nothing. If those guys killed you over it, the guy who told them you were doing something illegal should have no responsibility at all? I wonder how your family would feel about that? No, don’t tell me, of course that guy had no responsibility so they would just charge the goons who did it right?
So dude, stop sounding like Trump was some innocent bystander who just got caught in the mayhem. He was the President of the United States. Everyone around him knew he was the only one with the power to stop it. He purposely did NOTHING to stop it and he lit the fuse in the first place. Trump corrupt fat ass should be in prison for what he did. People DIED because of this man. It’s sicking.
The 6 Jan rioters were within 200 feet of taking members of Congress prisoner…fact! In fact, if a single police officer hadn’t led them away as bait up the wrong stairway in the capital, the would have most likely broke through…fact! And the President and his cronies incited it..fact And then when his cronies got worried and told the President to calm things down he ignored them…fact!
We are talking about taking out Congress here, not a couple federal buildings way out in Portland, or a protest in the streets of DC not much different from any other nasty protest in front of the White House over the years. And don’t fool yourself for a moment if you think that that mob would not have killed multiple members of Congress.
No, that’s not a fact. No one was taking anyone a prisoner. None of them were even equipped for such a thing. That’s all hogwash. What exactly did the President say to incite it? Was it the “march peaceably to the capitol part”? Do not fool yourself into thinking this was in any way an actual insurrection with intent to kill anyone. So far no cases have been found guilty of insurection-y crimes and the first cases were acquitted. The people who did get into the chamber wandered around like they were high. They were no danger to anyone. The only death was the poor unarmed woman shot by Cap Police and to this day we have no idea if it was justified or not. They won’t tell us. It’s despicable.
Just please be careful what you call fact.
You sound completely brainwashed ML31. I can only imagine how much you would try to excuse it if Obama lost to Romney back in 2012 and he convinced thousands of angry black people the election was stolen from him and they stormed the capital over it.
I’m sure you and the other Republicans would be as forgiving and trying to downplay the incident if Obama did the same thing lol. Don’t kid yourself man. Trump is a POS of the highest order and only out for himself. He literally tried to overturn the will of the people to stay in power and it’s sickening that you care about this idiot more than the Constitution.
They showed footage of the idiots from Jan. 6, so that seemed to suggest what party may have been responsible for Civil War 2.
A bit too on the nose for my liking, but I can’t argue with it too much. This sort of conspiracy mongering can lead to very ugly things, as we’re also seeing with Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
No… I think only people who are already leaning in that direction are the only ones who are going to come up with that conclusion. The other side very well could make an argument the other way.
At any rate… This is why I think Trek is better off being vague about their history. Hell, they could have used the Vulcan example and made the same point and they could have been as specific as they wanted there as it does not bring up specific moments from our future their past. Which has always been somewhat problematical when they got into specifics about that.
The problem is you are ignoring what every Secretary of State in the United States (they run elections for each state) certified. And you are ignoring every report, both personal and professional from them.
And you are ignoring why a Jan 6 protestor/terrorist arrives at the Capitol with zip ties. Yes, they were planning to take hostages.
And yes, that’s why even a right winger like Liz Cheney is ostracized from te Republican Party: because she knows that Trumpism is an existential threat to the function of democracy.
And Trumpism denuded our international diplomatic corps into a farce, which it has never been for more than a century.
This is WHY genicide is happening now in Ukraine.
“This sort of conspiracy mongering can lead to very ugly things, as we’re also seeing with Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.”
Exactly! Putin is simply a Trump with a weaker system of checks and balances and history of democratic institutions to control him. If Trump had been give another 4 years though…well it gives me the chills to think about — I think he would have tried to stay in for life.
I think it hilarious to that anyone actually believes that. It reminds me in high school when ignorant students actually believed honestly that Reagan was going to start a nuclear war. (eyeroll)
Yeah there were definitely canon issues but IMHO, the story, the characters and the rest of the episode made those canon issues irrelevant to me. I was so caught up in the episode, I ended up not caring!
If Discovery had been equally entertaining and relevant to our times, in other words been so Trek, then I think a lot of their canon issues would have been equally irrelevant. Too bad their writing team was not up to the task! Very happy to say SNW’s writers are… at least for the 1st week haha!
Glad to see you enjoyed it DeanH!
Yeah I agree, there are definitely some canon issues, but none I thought was that serious personally. But we know there will be a lot more coming if they are already creating questions this early on.
And you’re right, if Discovery did a better job out of the gate, people would’ve harped on that show’s canon issues a lot less. But Discovery probably just went too far from what people think of classic Star Trek in every form. It was always going to have an uphill battle IMO because it was trying to reboot the entire universe. SNW is not doing that. It’s clearly looks and feels like its in the Trek universe and in a way people haven’t felt since Enterprise went off the air. So that alone will make people be more receptive to it. But yeah if the show just isn’t very good that tune will change too. We’re still Star Trek fans! ;D
Btw, I know you liked some of the finale of Picard, but were less than overwhelmed. I hope SNW provided a more suitable gift and made the day a good one!
Oh yeah while the episode wasn’t perfect, it was far and away better than Picard lol. It’s not even close. So it made up for it for sure! :)
This thread has descended into partisan pointlessness. Closed
As much as I was relieved Picard was over, I am excited this has begun. And it had a beginning, a middle and an end in ONE episode! Yah!
Such a nice and refreshing feel to see an episode kick off like this. I was cautiously optimistic, and they delivered what many of us were asking for. I may not dig on the aesthetic, but this felt like Star Trek to me.
Honestly my only real issues with the story are around “too much technology.” I like the human side of Star Trek where the science and tech is only the backdrop. Loading clothing into the transport buffer in order to transport people into different clothes just felt a bit much. Things like that aren’t deal-breaking for me, but just one of those things I’m not a fan of.
Gosh darn this was REALLY GOOD!
The show is not on paramount+ app at this time on Latin America 😡
I wasn’t the only one who heard The Cage transport beam sound mixed in with their newer sound effect, right? Apologies if this was already mentioned. Tried skimming comments and review but I’m on my phone and tend to miss things when I do that
You weren’t the only one.
That was neat, absolutely.
I think I can wrap my head around retconning the timing for the Eugenics Wars. SPOILER: In the Picard finale, Soong’s report on Project Khan was dated 1996. So, in TOS’s Space Seed when Spock mentioned the dates of the Eugenics Wars as being fought between 1992 and 1996, maybe he misspoke and this wasn’t when the wars were fought but rather when the “seed” (pun intended) for them was planted. Even Spock wasn’t perfect. Maybe the genetics work to create Khan and his followers was between those dates. I think that line from Space Seed was the only canonical source for the dates, correct? Star Trek II even mentioned them being 200 years earlier (than the mid 23rd century) and I think maybe DS9 also had some conflicting dates. So, there seems to be sufficient wiggle room to make it blend into the mid 21st century’s World War III and still be in our current future.
The writers of Picard literally said they are going on the notion that Spock just misspoke in Space Seed and a big reason why the Eugenics wars wasn’t really covered in the season. I didn’t think they really needed to even cover it since it’s been over 20 years since it supposedly happened.
So yes, I think they decided they are going to retcon the Eugenics Wars to start later and tie it closer to WW 3 which in all honesty what the Eugenics Wars was originally. But I think by the time TNG came along in 1987 and that show started just five years in the real world before the Eugenics Wars was suppose to start Roddenberry created a WW 3 in Encounter at Farpoint whee it was to be much later to not feel totally out of date. And now, we are 30+ years since TNG started and by some crazy luck new Star Trek is still being made lol, so they may be shifting some of it again.
But this is really the problem when you pretend Star Trek is suppose to take place in our universe. At a time that was true, but now the fake history has caught up to our own history and you either have to let canon be canon and just say Star Trek is in a different universe from our own. Or just keep retconing stuff which doesn’t seem to be something fans like either. But you have to choose one or the other.
{McCoy voice} Not anymore. Now we can do both at the same time!
Kurtzman is far from the first to back of on the 1990s Eugenics War.
I don’t recall it was validated by Roddenberry himself, but I clearly recall the powers that be in the Berman era giving messages that the Eugenics wars started as an underground movement in the 1990s.
They actually said, it’s happening now (in the Star Trek canon) but the public aren’t aware.
So, like a lot of the Cold War, a lot was happening out of the public eye, and Khan and the adult’s developed in the program didn’t come into a more public conflict until more than a generation later.
I know, that was the point I was making about Roddenberry. He was clearly backing off from it when TNG started. So this has always been in the greyer areas. The issue is unlike the first Eugenics Wars which was given a specific date, every other suggestion has been pretty vague because I guess the point is NOT to retcon it so directly but to leave an impression it just started later.
But same time, it’s starting to feel tiring. Pick a date and stick with it. We all understand it’s just fiction. Star Trek isn’t real. If it happened in 1992 as originally stated fine. If you want to move it into a later time for story reasons, also fine, but just make it clear and move on already. It’s one of these things no one is even ASKING to discuss the Eugenics wars but they keep finding ways to bring it up. Make up their minds.
If Spock was using a different calendar, then he did not misspeak about the mid-1990s being the era of the Eugenics Wars/World War III. Likewise, other characters who dated the Eugenics Wars, the DY-100 class vessels, and Khan and his company and crew to the 1990s or late 20th Century, with the exception of Rear Admiral Bennett in “Doctor Bashir, I Presume”). Perhaps, this calendar was established by one of the tyrants mentioned in the franchise – Ferris, Maltuvis, Lee Kuan, Krotos, Green, or maybe Khan himself. As fpp reminded us (https://trekmovie.com/2022/05/05/recap-review-star-trek-gets-back-to-basics-in-strange-new-worlds-series-premiere/#comment-5564441), Khan himself mentioned in “The Wrath of Khan,” that the Botany Bay was lost in space in 1996. If Spock and other characters were referring to a different calendar, then either Khan or someone before him created it. Khan wouldn’t have been the first tyrant to establish a calendar. After all, Julius Caesar established the Julian calendar.
In my comments in other recent TrekMovie articles, I discussed Matalas’ tweet about PIC’s writers concluding that several EMP bursts kicked everyone back decades during WW3. I thought that these bursts would have only kicked back everyone’s electronic clocks, but not their memories, paper calendars, and tick marks on walls. Something else would have had to complete the job. Perhaps, it was a world-wide Orwellian tyranny, or a succession of tyrannies, that not only established a new calendar, but also altered every date, and implanted mind-control devices in everyone. In TOS: “What Are Little Girls Made Of,” Kirk said programming was the same old promises made by tyrants like Ferris and Maltuvis. In “The Wrath of Khan,” Khan put Ceti Eels the bodies of Terrell and Chekov to control their minds. And in “Encounter at Farpoint,” the military of the mid-21st century and Post-Atomic Horror were controlled with drugs. In this way, the “1990s” would have been the 1984 of Star Trek.
This paints a very dark picture of the near future, but in “Space Seed,” Spock did say that in the 1990s, “Earth was on the verge of a dark ages” and that “Whole populations were being bombed out of existence,” and in the novelization of Star Trek: The Motion Picture, Roddenberry himself mentioned “the savagery which had racked much of the rest of the world during the twenty-first century.” Roddenberry echoed this depiction of a dark near future in his other franchise, “Genesis II” and “Planet Earth.” In both franchises, the child race of Humanity falls down, but gets back up to a brighter far future.
FYI – Khan himself mentioned escaping Earth in 1996 in Star Trek 2 Wrath of Khan
Yeah… Some things I get blowing off to get your story right but Khan is something so engrained in Trek lore that moving him from 1996 to decades later just doesn’t work and shouldn’t happen. Again, this is not REAL history. This is Trek history.
Thank you for pointing that out. Telling Terrell about the Botany Bay and all that remains of that ship’s company and crew, Khan said, “These people have sworn to live and die at my command two hundred years before you were born. . . . [Chekov] Never told you how the Enterprise picked up the Botany Bay, lost in space in the year nineteen hundred and ninety-six, myself and the ship’s company in cryogenic freeze?”
Canon Canon CANON, screw canon. I have watched every series since the TOS. TOS made up canon now there’s people out there that hold canon like it’s God. Look the whole thing is made up. Do you people understand all TV shows are not real, Jim Kirk isn’t a real person except the actor that plays him. Having said that enjoy the fact we have new Star Trek shows.Yeah it’s not your grandfathers Trek but back in the day when I was a kid TOS wasn’t my grandfathers Scfi show ether. Things change life changes. the Writers of the TOS series are dead, right there you can’t do TOS because they are dead. Learn to live with it.
Canon is a shorthand for people being mad that this is being presented as a companion piece of The Original Series and Prime Universe. It is not. It is wearing The Original Series like a Halloween costume.
Well, they are not all dead. But they are not young!
Really fantastic premiere. Feels like genuine Trek again.
My favorite part? The lighting and color correction actually look good and fairly natural. No more blue and orange everything like Disco and parts of Picard. The snow was actually white! The lighting is white or realistically soft yellow! Red and green make appearances!
What did M’Benga and Singh do with their eyes?
Anyone else catch mention of the USS Yelchin?
Rewatching the episode, there is one thing I am confused on and that is when Pike asked Spock if he was aware off the United States of America? Obviously I know all the sovereign countries dissolved their own governments to be part of a one world government (something I know conservatives dream about lol) but wouldn’t all the countries still retain their basic culture and identity? In other words, wouldn’t it still be called that? I know Star Trek kind of play a little loose with these things but we know even in the 24th century France is still called France, Russia is still called Russia, etc. Even in this episode, they referenced Kenya. And we know all the cities are still basically the same: Los Angeles, New York, San Francisco, etc.
So why would Spock not be familiar with America itself? And it can’t just be because he’s not human since he also went to Starfleet Academy IN America.
San Francisco is in North America but the country of the USA has never been confirmed to exist in canon.
France and Russia are identified as historic areas and language groups but there’s no evidence that they continued as countries.
In the movie First Contact, the area of the encampment where Zephram Cochrane was building his warp capable prototype was, in fact, identified as being part of another regional self governing area.
Well kind of but Picard has made it clear he’s French. So even if there is not a sovereign government France is still considered a country or it’s own specific culture. He doesn’t identify as just European.
LIke I said I know they always skirted around this issue, but it’s strange Kenya is still Kenya in the 23rd century but America sounded like it faded off the landscape. I just wonder if you come from an area in America like so many characters have from Kirk to Archer, do they not call themselves American? On Enterprise, I was just thinking about the episode Shuttlepod One and Reed says North America as you pointed out. So would they at least be called North Americans by the 22nd century?
Not a big deal but just curious. Of course I’m probably thinking too hard about it. It was just an odd line to me since Spock spent his time on Earth living in America. But then I have to remember the writers are still just making it up as they go at times too. That would explain a lot in Picard lol.
Frankly I’m sick of these people complaining about canon. While I love TOS and what it stood for and how in many ways it was ahead of its time, most of it was terrible writing, terrible acting, sexist, ridiculous looking sets, and no clue of what the 1990s might actually look like.
If Star Trek reflects the evolution of our society, it would be absolutely ridiculous in any new series to use the 1990s as having the eugenics wars ad sending Khan into space in an absolutely ridiculous looking spaceship using cryonics.
In other words, you miserable people that all you do is complain about Star Trek and threaten how you won’t watch it anymore but you still do, GTFO, go back to your basement and play your video games.
For all you other folks that saw this premiere for what it was, a beautiful, modernized view of classic Trek with the episodic nature and optimism, keep the love coming!
I hear you but it’s very very very simple. If people say they don’t care about canon, well then you simply REBOOT it and do what you want. I don’t understand why they just don’t do that then?
Canon issues has always been divisive in all fandoms. This however doesn’t give you the right to insult all the people who want to strictly follow the canon. They have that right as much as you have to right to ignore them without resorting to petty insults.
Honestly, my biggest complaint was the over-similarity the aliens had to us. Spinning police sirens on the walls, ties with button down shirts, even caught a guy in a hipster fedora in one of the exterior scenes. I completely understand that they can’t invent a whole new culture with completely foreign looking elements in every episode, but…ties? Seriously? But it’s merely a nitpick. I think it was a really nice new entry in the Trek universe, and I’m exited to see where it goes from here.
To quote everyone’s least favorite Kirk scene…”It was…fun.”
Oh, and screw canon. Just thought I’d reiterate a post I’ve made before. Tell me a good story and as long as it feels like Trek, I really don’t give a rats hind-end if the Spock T’Pring thing isn’t exactly what he said, or that Sam Kirk is on the enterprise.
Plus how quickly it was wrapped up in the end. That kind of polarization doesn’t end with an alien visit! However, the great chemistry between the cast and the special effects made it work overall for me. Glad almost everyone got something to do in the main cast. Also that their backstories were given at appropriate times. Here’s to seeing where they take this show in future episodes.