‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Officially Begins Filming Season 5

As we reported on Saturday, filming for Discovery season 5 was imminent, and now to start off the new week executive producer and co-showrunner Michelle Paradise has confirmed the start of production on social media.

Paradise announces day 1 of production

What we know about season 5

So far about the only thing we know for sure is that there will be 10 episodes (matching the other Paramount+ live action Trek shows). It will be on Paramount+ in most regions of the world, presumedly aside from Canada where Paramount Global has a long standing relationship with Bell Media.

Check out more Discovery news and analysis here at TrekMovie.

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This last season was probably the best one, it was still a little uneven like the other seasons but they stuck the landing better. Even though I have gripes with the show I’ve still enjoyed it and am looking forward to more.

The last season was a 2-hour story that was stretched to 12 hours. I hope the writers do better this time otherwise let it be the last season. Discovery had its run, time to move on.

i couldnt agree more. i tried to watch season 4, was so bored i kept falling asleep. 3 episodes in, i skipped ahead to the finale. literally find Discovery unwatchably bad.

Those orange cones will be the big bad this season… 🖖😆

In my opinion, it would still beat a screaming alien child! :P

We discovered a swarm of orange cones that threatens to exterminate the whole of reality. For some reason it has a connection with Michael Burnam, who can only stop it by being more emotional and subordinate than ever!

And a two part episode stretched over 10, with lots of pointless filler episodes in between.

Those are the Non-Disclosure-Agreement CONES OF SILENCE. (LOL)

Can’t wait. S4 was weaker than the previous seasons, but I am willing to chalk that up to COVID and am expecting a rebound year.

Concur. I actually really liked S1 and to a lesser extent S2. S3 and S4 were nearly carbon copies of the same pile of…

S3 they tried to do a TNG-like story and I liked it enough, but I would prefer they get back to the darker compelling storylines like they had in the first two seasons. They made the mistake after 2 and “listening to the detractors” watered down the series. The detractors are never going to like it, so it’s time to get darker again. I’d do another time jump and bring back Prime Lorca,

I didn’t really like last season, although I liked a few episodes, including the premiere and most of the finale. I think it’s on par with the other seasons. Meaning, not good (in my opinion).

But regardless on your opinion on it, blaming the pandemic is nonsensical to me. I am sure it impacted a lot, don’t get me wrong. But what makes Discovery not great is the writing. The dialogues, the feelings sharing in a time of crisis, the way too heavy handed commentary and the accompanying speeches about the theme of the season in every single episodes. (if I hear the word “connection” on this show again, I’ll go jump off a bridge!). Not to mention the pacing of the season.

Those are things that can be worked out on zoom or alone in your house in front of a computer. It has nothing to do with the pandemic. Unless, of course, your disliking of the last season has nothing to do with what I just said. In that case, I would like to hear what you didn’t like about it, because I can’t think of anything else that could’ve been impacted by the pandemic that was bad. Special effects were good, actors and staff having to distance from each other didn’t show, etc.

That being said, I really hope I will like this season. Heck, if I like 5 episodes and hate the other 5, I’ll still take it as a win, as long as the finale is at least ok! I mean, I’m not setting the bar that high but I am still fearing I’ll get disappointed.

You could be right, but here’s thing — and this is based on my opinion of the seasons — I really liked S1 of Picard and I also though DSC S3 was very good. So then we get to the next seasons for both of these series, and DSC S4 is weak and Picard S2 is just bad…so we then ask what do those seasons have in common? And it’s rather obvious that both were produced, written and acted during COVID.

But other high profile series delivered strong seasons when produced under the same conditions during the pandemic across broadcast, cable and streaming. Weak seasons of Picard and Discovery had nothing to do with the pandemic.

Perhaps you might right but I’m not buying your CERTAINTY on this. It’s a weird coincidence that the poorest seasons of both shows both happened to be written and produced and acted during Covid. I think that if season three of Picard and season five of discovery are perceived as improved seasons then that will go along way to prove my point. If those seasons both kind of stink though, well then I’ll grant you that you were right on this.

so, we’ll see. (-:

You may feel it’s nonsensical, but not to me. I won’t blame it entirely for whatever I don’t like in those seasons, but geeze, tv writers are human beings, subject to the same degrees of stress and disruption and and anxiety that we all felt in the early days of the pandemic and beyond. Their way of working was disrupted (who has the same vibe working over zoom as in person?? Tech issues sucking the life out of you aside, it’s just not the same) and their lives may have been too, whether it’s kids suddenly being home and needing the parent all the time, working hours be damned, or if they don’t have kids or partners, suddenly being far more isolated. Just things like getting groceries went from tedium or a fun outing to high stress, highly competitive missions.
They might feel more pressure to put things on tv that reflect what people are struggling with (highly understandable and fine to do, tho not to everyone’s taste and of course it’s all the execution). They may also have had to deal with family heath issues, even those unrelated to covid were incredibly different and difficult, or their own health. All of this stress and disruption (and for many people, deep grief) is *far* from conducive to creativity.
So I don’t feel like it’s totally fair to expect that every writer was able to work at the same level during the pandemic. We all had different experiences of that time, but it had an effect on everyone and thus on everyone’s work.

Exactly. I had to completely change the way I did my job during Covid and my productivity and creative focus wasn’t always what it should have been at certain times during that time frame.

I haven’t seen it, since I gave up after S3 and didn’t want to waste the energy on pirating S4 (it’s not on in Germany) … but: really? 😅 … how could it possibly have been worse? 😁

Unfortunately you’re not missing anything. And yes it was actually worse.

Ganz einfach: very simple:
By moving forward the story each episode for 5 minutes, then having to wait one week, repeating this 6 times, then having a mid-season-break and take the momentum, then repeating this 6 times and saving the mystery until the last episde.
Instead of making the season available at once for binge watching and giving more clues about the mystery from the beginning.

I wonder what galaxy-threatening event the Discovery crew will meet this season.

The multiverse is all the craze now.

Maybe it’s just an entire season about Grudge the cat getting poorly and the Discovery being placed on detached assignment to search for a cure.

All I want is ONE season where by the time we get to the end I can say it was not only entertaining throughout but actually compelling and consistent story telling on top of it. I haven’t been been able to say that for four seasons yet and why it feels so frustrating as a fan. I’m crossing my fingers this time it will finally happen.

Oh and just ONE season where the entire galaxy isn’t in peril. Just one. Less can actually be more, even in Star Trek.

I don’t care about the scope of the story. Whether they have to face the borg having enslaved half the galaxy or save a cat from a tree, as long as it’s well-written and paced, I’ll take it.

All they have to do is write good dialogue and spend time with all the characters and not just for a brief monologue about their childhoods or their feelings. Show, don’t tell. If they do that, I will be much less inclined to critique the main storyline (although it is still important, just not as much).

It’s not right that we know more and care more about the SNW characters in half a season than we care about the Discovery characters other than Saru, Burnham and Tilly. I honestly never remember the names of the bridge crew other than them. Especially the guys in the background who have a couple lines every episodes.

“It’s not right that we know more…”

Dude, please stop acting like you speak for all fans…you don’t. I love the cast and bridge crew on DSC, and Burnham as the lead is great in my opinion as well. And not recognizing Stamets, Culber, Reno and Adira? Give me a freaking break.

Calm down, dude. I am not talking for anybody else but me. If you don’t agree with me, that’s fine. State your opinion and we can have a nice discussion.

First, you should know I am talking about MY opinions and I shouldn’t have to say it every time I write something. Even though I do it a lot, just not in this post. Second, I say WE in that context as us the viewers. I didn’t say every body hate the characters. I said most everybody don’t know them as well as we should because they don’t develop them much. It is enough for you? Great! But that doesn’t mean we…sorry…I, should not know them better than that after 4 seasons. Objectively, we don’t spend much time with the bridge crew. That’s what I am talking about, as stated.

So, you know the name of the black dude (sorry, I really don’t know his name) who was on the bridge and left last season? Or the guy that replaced him? Or the asian guy? (again, I don’t want to be an ass and just call them by their ethnicity. I REALLY don’t know their names.) Good for you, but I don’t. Sure, they are not the main cast, but they talk almost every episode and had monologues about their childhood or some shit. I SHOULD at least know their name, but I don’t. And even if they do talk once in a while, it’s nothing that makes me remember them. Just random stuff usually in an appropriate moment like a crisis.

I was talking about them specifically. And also Owo and Detmer. I do know their names, but they should be so much more developed by now. They’re basically mostly just there. I want to like Owo.

So yeah, I know La’aan, M’Benga and nurse Chapel more than those characters after 6 freaking episodes. That’s not normal. That’s just what I am saying. Even if Burnham is the main character and those are not the main cast, they are still there every episode and should have had more storylines to define them in 4 seasons. By the way, Number One is starting to suffer from the same fate, it seems, so SNW isn’t perfect. Although I guess her sub-plot will get her back in the spotlight soon enough.

OK, thanks for explaining yourself further. You make some good points. And I agree with you that for some of the temporary bridge crew, sure they come and go, but they were never really meant to be part of the core crew. DSC does I think have too many characters versus the other Trek series.

It’s not a question of too many characters, it’s a question of how they prioritize the time they spend with them. With Tilly relegated to recurring, the actual main cast of regulars is just 6 people now, by far the smallest of them all.

I acknowledge the creative choice to not focus on the glorified extras on the bridge, but I think it has turned into a terrible one 4 years later as it has led to all sorts of awkward problems. We still spend a ton of time on the bridge so it’s odd to just have the same people coming back time and again who just bark technobabble and have nothing below the surface. Michelle Paradise started to clue into this being a problem, but her solution was to have them hamfistedly start to announce snippets of backstory – “I kite-surf!” “Starfleet rescued me as a child, thank for you letting me lead a Starfleet rescue team (off-camera!)” “Let me stop you right there and endanger your life to tell you I watched my best friend die, that’s why I’m suddenly acting unprofessionally in the middle of a crisis.” At least the last one led to a somewhat decent use of Owo, but she’s the only one who has ever been given a shot at a character.

Because they spent so much time without any characterization, the shoehorning in for scenes like when Burnham enlists their help to solve the communication problem in the last episode, or Bryce’s goodbye scene where Saru congratulated him for all the important work he’s only ever done off-screen, fall flat. And Detmer keeps being used as a tool to benefit main characters – she’s pissed at Burnham for getting her a life-changing injury… until she’s suddenly not, no follow up questions please. She has growing PTSD but that is mainly just used to help Culber figure out his sh*t. Out of nowhere she becomes an object of admiration to a progressively less confident Adira. Detmer gets screen time but little development throughout all of this.

The way the show used Airiam was borderline offensive when looked at through the lens of a commentary on disability. She was given no development until her final episode where she’s revealed as having had her whole life completely defined by what the show absolutely qualifies as a disability, suggesting her life would have been so much better without it. With nothing else to go on about her, that’s what we were left with. She was just “half robot lady” next to “Asian guy,” “one of two apparently interchangeable black guys,” “shaved head lady” and “blonde lady.” They are all used just enough to need more development to justify the amount of emotional investment the show seems to think we have in them. Owo declaring her love for her work colleagues, Bryce’s departure, Rhys’ rescue mission, Detmer’s detente with Burnham, all the laughing and hugging and crying and clapping – it rings hollow because these characters are ciphers and merely types of people, not actual people. The efforts to develop them this season have been clumsy to put it mildly. The cast is tiny and the story arc was stretched as thin as can be. They had plenty of time to do better by them IMO.

all the laughing and hugging and crying and clapping”

I feel like, based on watching the behind the scenes stuff, that a lot of this–like the uber emotional goodbye to Georgiou when she had only actually visibly connected with a few characters–comes from how the *cast* feels about each other and what they’re doing. The cast has this great comradery and rapport and they keep shoving it into the show where sometimes it doesn’t, for me, feel fully justified.
And, like, why not? The cast is always playing games and hanging out, why do we so rarely see the crew doing so? We got some space poker or whatever last season and it was fun, but it was for the plot of that episode and only involved a couple characters. We had a bit of hangout time in like season one I think, but it was just to make a character’s death hit harder, in that single episode.
I spent all last season thinking “These characters need some time off” and we got it–just in time for the season to *end*. Frustration.

I can’t even say how pleased I was that on SNW we trashed the ship and then *immediately* got an episode where at lest some of the crew got to chill out or deal with their own crazy stuff. It makes me connected to them in a way that I felt works really well and will buy goodwill for future feelsy moments of whatever sort fits. (Ob, there’s no buying having a character that *most* of the crew should be ambivalent towards being sent off with all fanfare and tears, but still…)

Absolutely. There’s a disconnect between the obvious joy they have on set and the import they feel for what they are doing, with what comes across onscreen.

I get what you’re saying but I think you over inflate the need to do this. I would argue that the original series did the exact same thing to the lesser supporting characters and it’s still the most beloved Star Trek series of all time. We didn’t really get to know a lot of those supporting characters much until the novels and movies, and that really was never a big issue for the fans.

Regarding the diversity aspects, the show is a huge leader in that regard and I completely reject your reasoning that they’ve been insulting those characters. I love what they’ve done with that, and have no problem with their “reveals” because they make it more powerful to learn something in this area about one of the lesser characters who’s not going to get a lot of screen time in any case.

My biggest problem with the series is that they’ve watered it down to become too positive and too much like other Trek shows. I think it’s time to get back to their original more edgy focus, with Burnham bending the rules, corrupt starfleet officials, connections to the mirror universe, more Klingons, etc, which is what makes the show different from any other Star Trek series we’ve seen. It’s time for discovery to become discovery again

I’d start with a new time jump to the Star Trek 6 era, and I’d weave in prime Lorca’s return for season

I don’t like attempts to make Star Trek TV-MA violent and the darkness of the Klingon War made the differences of the Mirror Universe imperceptible at first – that was a red flag to me. Making Trek un-family-friendly is a mistake IMO, it has made Disco and Picard both off-limits to a large number of kids who won’t then look back on it with fondness when they want to introduce their own kids to shows. The *way* seasons 3 and 4 have made things all lovey dovey was a mistake IMO, partly because it wasn’t earned for so many characters as has been discussed here already, partly because Star Trek didn’t wear its heart on its sleeve this much. TOS was looser, but Spock was always there to ground things, hugs were few and far between. Then TNG-Enterprise were fairly stolid, and that represents a huge percentage of what Trek is to people – hundreds of hours. One could argue they went overboard with that, but it did make the subtlest emotional outbursts from the likes of Picard, Seven, Worf or Odo all the more effective. Discovery is embracing contemporary ideas like the importance of self-care and not repressing emotions, but it’s not quite my bag of tea. I just don’t think the solve for that is making the show super dark and full of corruption. Especially when they can’t be trusted to handle character development and storytelling fundamentals under Michelle Paradise.

As for barely developing minor characters, the original series is nearly 60 years old. Standards have changed. That includes standards for what constitutes meaningful character development, which all the little snippets we’ve gotten about the bridge peons patently don’t qualify as. They, along with Gray, are clearly just there to be diverse *types* of people, not real people. That’s insulting. The way Bryce and Christopher are just swapped out to check a box, the use of Airiam, the way Gray has no personality and is just there to be a “We see you” symbol? That is not leading, it’s pandering without doing the work to make them characters and then still expecting applause for how good it looks in a publicity still or the GLAAD awards. That could fly with TOS or even TNG, but not today. You’re basically saying that even after 4 years of seeing them, and even with Disco’s cast being tiny, these characters don’t matter so it’s fine for them to be developed clumsily, but isn’t it nice how diverse they are? Eesh.

So within the Trek markets they are hitting, they can have cartoon Trek targeted at younger kids, LDS targeted at teenagers, but they are not allowed to have a TV-MA series targeted only at adults?

I think Kurtzman is providing us all a big tent with lots of options catered to different markets and different ages, so I see no problem with having one of the shows have a little more violence and sex than the others, so long as they are labeled properly so that parents can make decisions, like they do for anything else on streaming.

We are going to have to disagree on the supporting, diversity characters thing. I commend what they are doing and love the ways the characters are presented. I might hazard a guess that you are perhaps hung up on how what you see relates to your political views, but that’s your own business of course? I have no issues with those characters at all — I think each gets more screen time in some seasons and less screen time in other seasons (e.g. Gray was a big focus in S3, but not in S4…and that is as it should be as a supporting character) given the constraints of screen time for supporting actors — and love what DSC has done for diversity. They deserve every award that they get in that category.

Star Trek used to be a family affair. It would never get more disturbing than a PG-13 with the odd exploding Remmick and Xindi as the outlier. I agree there’s room for TV-MA content, I just think it’s a big mistake in terms of longevity. Look at how Star Wars, Doctor Who and Jurassic Park successfully programmed to their original audience and that audience’s own children with continuations. I had real joy as a child watching TOS-VOY with my family. I am not a parent, but I wouldn’t show Discovery’s or Picard’s first seasons to a child under 12, and that makes showing the rest of the series difficult. That’s a huge segment of the population not getting (for lack of a better word) indoctrinated at a critical age when lifelong affections are created. That leaves decades old properties and the cartoons to try to stir up that same affection in kids these days. So far SNW seems to be hitting the sweet spot though.

You are correct that my politics should not be speculated on, that shouldn’t even merit mention. I was trying to frame this debate in terms of writing and creativity, it’s unfortunate that you chose to leap to the conclusion that I don’t like Gray or tokenism because I’m conservative, rather than discerning about quality of characterization. Again, I think these actors deserve to be playing *people* rather than just ciphers and diversity checkboxes. I was deeply disappointed in the superficiality of Gray, think Ronnie Row Jr. deserves better than to be the black guy they just replace with another black guy when he’s out, and have had long impassioned discussions with a dear friend who is wheelchair bound about the tonedeaf nature of stories like Melora and Project Daedalus. Season 4 was listless and the regular cast is the smallest out of all the series. There was room to do better by them.

And for the record: gay, Asian-American, liberal but Hillary>Bernie. I really shouldn’t have to qualify myself to make this kind of an argument though.

We will have to agree to disagree on the treatment of diversity. I think DSC is the best TV series for diversity since the international cast we got with Lost.

And again, Gray had a key role in S3, but not S4, and that’s how it goes with supporting characters. Perhaps S5 will have more meat for Ronnie Row Jr., or perhaps not. The major characters will get “fed” first, as it should be, and BTW those characters also shine in terms of diversity. I personally find it rather bizarre that someone would be critical of the series for this reason, but that’s just me.

Here is another thought on why we got less of Gray in S4. Ian Alexander’s performance of the character in S3 I found to be rather dull, which was unfortunate, because the part and the writing in S4 for Gray I thought was just great. Think Dr. Pulaski on TNG…some actor-character combinations just don’t come off that well. Perhaps it was a bad casting choice? My opinion.

Dude, I think you are over-thinking this. Celebrate the accomplishment — the glass is half, full, not half empty. And I apologize for my political conjecture regarding the basis for your comments, but I have run into a lot of negative stuff on DSC from red state types the last few years as I am sure you have as well…sorry!

Ian Alexander is not a great actor, and it’s on the producers for not trying very hard to find someone better from the LGBT community, but he wasn’t given a real character to play either, which is the main problem. I’d take another round of Dr. Pulaski any day over Gray.

Thank you for your apology.

Thank you for a very will written post! I hope and pray that your very fair criticism SOMEHOW gets to the powers-that-be, as, as FNk2 points out in the next post, they CLEARLY don’t perceive the complete disconnect between what’s actually on-screen, and the (invisible) behind-the-scenes connections that only the series’ staff is fully aware of.

I’ve watched and wanted to like everything they’ve done so far, but it has become a hard task to keep up, as Discovery’s “do tell, don’t show” approach consistently leads to SUCH horrendous writing!!!

Thank you! It hampers things that should have worked beautifully on paper. Georgiou is the prime (well, mirror, har har) example. She’s obviously meant to be on a redemption arc, but the writers don’t know what to do with her, they just know they have Michelle Yeoh sticking around because she’s enjoying herself. They have her be protective of Michael, a snarky b*tch to everyone else except Linus (never explained), the rest of the crew is petrified of her… until it’s time for her to leave and suddenly everyone is hugging, reminiscing fondly and pretending she has been thawing out and seeing the value of how the Prime Universe does things. Because it’s Michelle Yeoh, she sells it hard, but the writers didn’t do any of the work needed to justify her arc. They just pretended they did. That’s incredibly frustrating and the problem with how the show approaches character in a nutshell.


If you really hate DSC this much, think that Michael is a “snarky b*itch,” and don’t even appreciate the diversity elements as well, why are you watching it still and why are you spending so much time posting about it? Don’t get me wrong, I’m fine with you sharing your opinions, but I am just curious why you are still engaged with something you so obviously despise?

Maybe parse the sentence structure of the posts you reply to before you lash out as if I insulted your wife? The post is all about Georgiou, and I trust you don’t want to debate if she was characterized to be a snarky b*tch. Because she was.

As for the diversity of the show, I appreciate the casting of LGBT and diverse talent in the main cast, and the initial efforts to show a loving and stable gay relationship, until Culber became a “bury your gays” victim convolutedly resurrected after a public backlash. My thoughts on Gray and the bridge peons devoid of character does not need to be rehashed, I think I’ve articulated them well enough to refute your broad characterization of my not appreciating “the diversity elements.” You don’t seem to get my point about how treating those character so superficially is a disservice, but in 2022 I think they deserve more than, “Well at least we hired you and you’re diverse!”

You seem to have a bit of a problem when it comes to presumption. Wouldn’t hurt to be a little less reactive and not think the worst of people you disagree with, I find that only leads to misunderstandings and hurt feelings.

Fair enough, but, unless I am totally misunderstanding your comments, you do come across like you really can’t stand this series or it’s characters. Perhaps read you own comments again on this series in the last day and see if you agree with me?

But what does it matter if I like it or not? I care about Star Trek as a whole, and quite passionately. It’s a vital part of my childhood and one of the most unusual and unique franchises ever made. When it works, it sings like nothing else on TV. I also work in the industry and take good writing, acting and directing seriously. That is why I take so much time to articulate issues I have with Discovery and Picard, both of which have shown glimmers of promise but have many fundamental problems creating headwinds for them. They can do better, and I don’t think we should be settling for what their producers think is quality television. But I’d rather not be drawn into a discussion where I am encouraged to stop watching, thank you.

Well thank you for the explanation. Personally, the only two series that I really have major issues with are Enterprise (a bad-to-mediocre failed series) and Lower Decks (too juvenile and also insulting to my Trek intelligence). And S2 of Picard was inexplicably bad after what I thought was a great first season.

Again, I think the diversity element in DSC is it’s greatest achievement and should be celebrated. And yes, I do understand your issues with the diverse characters versus their roles and screen time – but I simply strongly disagree with your opinion and I think the roles and the screen time to date are reasonably holistic given the expectations I have for the involvement of supporting characters on any Trek series. My opinion!

That’s really the problem though. Nothing was wrong with the first two seasons of DSC, but then they started the “listening to the fans” thing and now DSC has been watered down.

I’d frankly prefer that they would ignore the opinions from all of these people who are never going to like DSC anyway, and get back to the kind of DSC we had in the first two seasons.

Let DSC be DSC again. :-)

One of the strengths of SNW is that they’ve managed to give us a clear sense of who these characters are in just a handful of episodes, even the supporting characters. One line of dialogue about Kyle gave us a clear sense of how he’s perceived by other crew members and insight into who he is and how he approaches his job.

So, Reboot makes a valid point and I think part of the challenge for Discovery over the years is that the initial concept was tweaked, not fully realized and rebooted by the time they launched season 3, after picking up the pieces of behind the seasons drama in seasons 1 and 2.

That’s a fair point.

That is the one disappointment I had when they rebooted the show in season 3, I thought the bridge crew would have a stronger presence and more developed because so many of the cast members in the first two seasons were now gone and they could focus on those characters a little more. It happened a little with Detmer for example and they had more to do in the finale but we still got very little development overall.

Look you like the early star trek shows I do too. But I like the late show too because they tell a story and they more part with our own tech. You need to embrace these shows has individuals and not judge him of the other Shameless back then because and also you need to stop complaining and stop telling people do some stuff because it’s not fair for other fans who actually like to move adicats I have to hear this negativity you don’t have to watch the movies but he need to be more respectful and realizing there are other people in this world besides you stop being so negative if you don’t like it don’t say anything ruin it for everybody else.
To me these are stories that continue the story line. Talking in the title stand and learn to embrace this shows as the new shows that you never seen before and don’t judge them from the early shows because they different for a reason.
learned to respect the actors in The people are producing these you’re being disrespectful and stop acting like an entitled fan

DSC Season 1 fits your definition. It covered the Klingon War, a known event in Federation history and nothing involving that war threatened the entire galaxy. And, in my opinion, it was the best season of the series, largely well-written an a very compelling storyline, including Lorca and the mirror universe.

Season one was the worst season in Star Trek for me after it was done. The ‘Klingon war’ was mostly in the background and had an anticlimactic ending which ended with L’Rell holding an ACME bomb. Hated the whole Voq/Tyler twist which made no sense on its head. The MU stuff was fun but super rushed. And it broke canon but I was OK with it. And I really hated Space Hitler which we were stuck with for two more seasons.

I did like Lorca but they killed him off. And ntroducing the spore drive which was way too advanced for this period. The season just felt too dark and uneven and felt very little like Star Trek in the process.

Very little of that was well written IMO. And if this was the ‘beat’ season it just proves why this show still has so many problems four seasons later.

To each his own, except for overdoing the new look for the Klingons, I really loved that season. And I think the problem with the series now is that, and I mean no offense to you here, but they listened to all of you who complained about S1 and S2, and decided to water down the series and make it more more comfortable and NICE…lol

DSC should go back to being DSC, as the people who don’t get the show are never going to warm up to it anyway…my opinion. Bring back the darkness/edginess, bring back Michael disobeying orders because she knows better than her superiors, bring back TOS and Mirror universe characters, bring in Prime Lorca, bring back corrupt Starfleet officers, and fire up the freaking spore drive for long distance travel — and let’s time jump again to perhaps the STVI portion of history. That’s where the show excels — they should not have run away from all that (and I miss Space Hitler too…lol). And if a lot of hardcore Trek fans don’t like this, well it’s a submarket that works for many viewers (alot who are new to the franchise that DSC has brought it), just like Lower Decks works for its submarket while personally that show irritates me to no end much as DSC irritates you. :-)

I watched season one of Discovery again on my grand rewatch last year and I could barely get through it. It just sucks for me.

I rewatch season 1, which airs now for the first (!) time on german TV. Even if it has it flaws and is not the best Trek, I enjoy that season and miss characters like Lorca and Cornwell.

Yeah I liked them both too and sadly now both dead

Prime Lorca is still out there somewhere though

Also season one has gravitas and drama in spades.

Intimate storytelling isn’t something they’ve mastered on Discovery. Everything has to be BIG.

Unfortunately true. It’s another reason why I am really enjoying SNW. It really is feeling like the anti-Discovery in so many ways and why it seems to be a much bigger hit too.

Discovery can take it down a notch…or three.

Hard to believe this has gone two seasons and counting more than TOS…

But the episode count is still less than TOS I think. TOS had like 79 episodes through 3 seasons Discovery will have about 64 episodes at the end of season 5 if I did the math correctly.

It’s got a huge following, but many of it’s fans are not hardcore Trek fans who post on Trek fan sites. I went to a Creation Con in NJ last fall, and the SMG/Discovery Panel was standing room only — twice the audience of the Shatner appearance. And the audience had a ton more young people, kids and females than the rest of the convention audience — they just showed up an paid the one-day pass to see SMG and the DSC cast members.

Exactly this One Lion.

Discovery has been successful at what it is designed to do. It doesn’t matter whether it’s my favourite among the menu of Trek offerings or if no one on this particular board gets why it’s popular.

I’ve been at Comic-Cons and heard fans bursting with enthusiasm about the idea of an S31 show with Michelle Yeoh. I’m intrigued but not super exited by that one.

Those entrusted with the IP need to broaden the base and attract new audiences. Seems like they are achieving that.

SNW is pleasing a broad swath of older fans and Kelvin movie fans. That’s great. Its for them, but not every show will be.

Well said, TG47

I ask for 3 things: 1) The entire galaxy need NOT be threatened. 2) Michael and Discovery are not the only ones that can save the day (Dear Lord, almost a thousand years passed, imagine someone from the year 1122 is brought to 2022, they would not be experts in anything except life in 1122). 3) Yes, all people have emotions, but ‘military officers’ don’t talk about them while on duty in the middle of heated action.

Starfleet is NOT a military organization. It may have military like aspects to it, but at its core, Starfleet is all about exploration. In other words, these are not hardened military people, but explorers with emotions. Plus, in TNG you literally had a therapist sitting in a command chair on the bridge.

The first season was literally them fighting a war 🤨

True, and in the premiere episode (or I guess technically, the second episode – Battle at the Binary Stars), one of the bridge officers (Connor to be exact) says this to Burnham when he accidentally goes to brig instead of sickbay:

Why are we fighting? We’re Starfleet. We’re explorers, not soldiers.

And in Star Trek Insurrection (which takes place during the Dominion War), Picard laments the current state of affairs after Riker informs Picard that they are needed in the Goren sector to mediate in a territorial dispute, which will delay an archeological expedition to Hanoran II.

Riker: The diplomatic core is busy with Dominion negations.

Picard: Oh yes, so they need us to put out one more brush fire. Can anyone remember when we used to be explorers?

So, yeah. Starfleet ≠ military.

It’s really splitting hairs. They’re organised in a military command hierarchy, they fly ships organised as a military navy and in armed conflict, they’re the navy that’s being send to deal with the thread.

It’s not like military and science are differ Te things. Look at DARPA or Space Force. Or if you want it fictional look at Stargate.

Starfleet is at the least a l s o a military, though it’s not the only (or most important) part of it’s mission statement.

And it’s not like, that has never been addressed. Was it Beyond or one of the DS9 Edington episodes, where one character says that “Starfleet is not a military organization” and the other pretty much explains to him, that just saying that doesn’t make it so if you look the facts.

It’s really splitting hairs.

Is it though? When you have multiple characters across multiple series specifically mention how Starfleet is not a military force, then, well, Starfleet isn’t a military force.

I will agree that there are military type aspects to Starfleet, but even when Starfleet started out it was focused on exploration and not military service. I would argue that the military aspects of Starfleet are simply a necessary evil given the dangers that space exploration entails.

Well there’s multiple politicians stating, that China is a democracy. That doesn’t make it right. It’s about the way it’s depicted, not about what is said.

Military or not (and they are), they still have duties and responsibilities and taking a pause to talk about their emotions while on the bridge when the ship is under attack isn’t one of them.

It is silly that a group of people from 1000 years in the past are the smartest and only group who can save the galaxy. I also agree it would be nice for them to start behaving like professionals like all the other Starfleet crews do.

Socrates, Plato, Confucius, Jesus Christ and Julius Caesar have been trying to reach you, but you are not answering your phone? ;-)

Put them all in the same room together and expect them to work efficiently? Too many egos there, even if you figure the deities don’t really get caught up in that.

Honestly, the lack of professionalism that comes across in the shows I’ve seen is staggering. And to be brutally honest, that is on both sides of the camera, because the way most of these shows are shot is just like film students getting to play with gadgets. Trek isn’t the only show that falls prey to this … ORVILLE has gotten obsessed with doing pointless stuff like the crazy shot that starts out in space and fly in through window to live-action too, and to no particular effect outside of ‘see, this is how we are spending our budget!’

How well would those people do now, immediately upon landing here? Humans on the whole and individually have never really gotten smarter or stupider, but we build on the ideas and tech of the past and operate and collaborate within sets of shared culture and references.

And we have a Star Trek tradition of captains and such going to holo versions of these kinds of historical figures for help in the now, but it isn’t like they’re literally explaining the problem and getting the answer.

IDK, I mean, it’s an interesting question and I don’t necessarily agree with Trellium G’s POV here, but I do feel like the landscape of the future Starfleet is deliberately lacking to make more space for Disco’s crew to maintain the kind of central status they had in the past and it feels weaker for it.

Good points! I was speaking in terms of the more general theme of how those figures lessons are still used today.

However, for all the advancements we see in the starships in the 31st century, none of them have the spore drive and as such, had extremely limited ranges due to the dylithium issue covered in S3. So that made the Discovery the most advanced starship in the galaxy even though it was 900 years old. So that’s why they fit in immediately and would not need to have their crew replaced, etc. etc.

And all of those you mentioned would most likely mess themselves the first time a plane flew overhead if they suddenly found themselves in our time.

Discovery’s jump, and integration into the 32nd century, would have been more believable had Discovery been assigned a captain from that century and showcased the inadequacies Discovery and its crew would most likely have had and show some type of learning curve. But instead, we got them being the instant experts in the room in all things. The show is serialized, so it isn’t like they didn’t have the opportunity to do so.

You’re missing the whole point though that the 31st century had kind of regressed in a lot of ways.

A better analogy would be let’s say you’re in the 12th century and man had forgot how to build large bridges that can spend major rivers and a team of Roman engineers from the 2nd century shows up and does it for you.

Except they didn’t forget. It was clear their technology advanced by quite a bit since the 23rd century. Not to mention all the scientific advances and discoveries that would be made since Discovery’s time in the 23rd century. 32nd century Starfleet didn’t regress technologically. They were just cut off and stalled with the range of interstellar travel because of the whole “Burn/alien child tantrum/dilithium issue”.

I hear you, but the Discovery did have a vastly superior starship simply because of it’s spore drive, and that drive had not been developed in the 31st century.

A military organization? Starfleet?

LOL. I think Bob’s yer 11 years old and shouldn’t be staying up past 8 pm to post on the internet. ;-)

Bob, that’s just me being silly BTW. I appreciate your comment.

There’s hope for you yet, One Lion.

You ask people to stop talking for others (when they don’t) but when people state their opinions or they make a mistake, you insult them? Be consistent, man. Ask for respect but give it back too.

And even if Starfleet is not military, you know what that person was saying. He even added quotes at “military officers”. That shows he knows they’re not military, but they are kind of, sort of, a bit like that. They are trained to do a job and handle certain situations under pressure. They should be professional enough to talk about their feelings after the crisis, not when they’re under attack and have to act NOW.

Again, you don’t agree with their point of view? Great! Just state yours. Don’t insult them.

One Lion
June 14, 2022 12:08 am
Bob, that’s just me being silly BTW. I appreciate your comment.

So maybe read the entire thread next time to get the entire context of what someone is saying.

Yeah, for some reason, that comment didn’t show when I was typing mine. My bad. The rest of my statement still stands though :)

No worries. I think I need to call it a night as I am being too reactive to all the negativity on Discovery. :-)

The question is, does anyone care anymore? Thankfully, a lot of people actually do. But in my very scientific survey of the internet, as someone who interacts with Trek content all the time, I can quite confidently say that Discovery is the most loathed entry in the entire franchise, and almost every comment thread on every platform – YouTube, Facebook, Reddit, any article written about Star Trek in general – is filled with people pointing out how much of a dumpster fire this show is. And as a lifelong Trek fan, I am sad to say I agree – I checked out 3 episodes into Season 2. I just can’t get behind what they’re trying to do – it’s a tedious slog year after year, horrible dialogue, weak plotting, just an all around frustrating product that I would much rather not have in the Star Trek canon. That’s how I feel about Picard too. In contrast to SNW, which is getting universally glowing reviews, people aren’t afraid to express their opinion that all the rest of current Trek is utter garbage. Here’s hoping Disco Season 5 will actually change someone’s mind?

How can you say for certain that seasons 3 and 4 are terrible when you haven’t even watched them? And hopefully I’m sensing a lot of sarcasm in your post.

Yea, and it’s also crazy to hear the actual “hate” from some fans on this series. I mean to post publicly like this makes me question if this dude even gets what Star Trek IDIC is all about? This is so over-the-top that I am actually embarrassed for this person, and won’t even do him/her and dignity of conversing directly with them on this thread.

I mean if you really absolutely hate a show to this severe level where it’s like obviously ruining your day, then just ignore and move on where there is a fun article covering plans for the new season of a series you severely hate…and I usually don’t feel that way and like a lot of fan discourse, but this post is just way out of bounds…my opinion.

CBS: “Here’s some s**tty TV for you”
Fans: “Right on, praise IDIC”

Thumbs way up for that, JS!

Obviously that wasn’t my point, but congrats for sinking a 3-pointer clever wisecrack…I even laughed, dude, Lol. If I can’t ever laugh at myself then it’s time for me to move on, which is what I think that dude should do who is so crazy angry about the show.

It’s funny that you mention the first 3 episodes of S2.
I also got frustrated with S3 and S4 due to its sloooooow pace and stretched plot, but the 2nd episode of S2 “new Eden” was Star Trek at its core and IMHO the pilot of Strange New Worlds. I consider it as a SNW and not DSC episode.

Looking forward to seeing S5.
S4 was some of the best Trek we have had especially the last episode of the season titled Coming Home.
That episode imo was one of the best episodes in all of Star Trek right up there with In a Pale Moonlight and Best of Both worlds.

If you watched the most recent episode of Strange New Worlds where Pike is invited into a closed gathering towards the end, you might notice that the set and backdrop is a re-dress of the one where Burnham and crew meet with the 10-C in ‘Coming Home’.

I can’t wait until this dumpster fire drops out of the 5 show rotation and something not made for Grey Anatomy’s audience takes its place. In the meantime at least we still have LDS and SNW.

What’s wrong with a lot of people likIng Grey’s Anatomy? Are they not a market that deserves that series? (And by the way, I don’t even watch that show)

The level of entitlement here where some fans just want what they want and to hell with everybody else who likes something different just kills me.

It’s badly written. I want well written Star Trek shows. It’s that simple.

BTW, Grey’s Anatomy has been nominated 240 times for Emmys and all the other major awards, with 83 wins — and multiple Emmy nominations for writing. No offense dude, but I don’t think you would know good writing if a screenplay landed on your lap and called you papa. ;-) LOL

Agreed. I wish they would replace the show runner. Michelle Paradise seems nice but her ideas have been more bad than good IMO.

Well we got Michelle Paradise because they listened to all of you fans who said the show was too dark, that Michael was too much of a savior figure, and that the show needed a fresh start…so now we got watered down DSC, which I an not super happy about either.

If I was Kurtzman, I’d give Harberts and Berg a “second chance” if they have “learned their lesson” and are willing to create a better workplace environment — they will give us back “the real DSC” that we got in S1 and S2. I’d then jump the show to the STVI era (as mentioned by Fuller for his original concept), and have Jason Isaacs back in the role of Prime Lorca…and bring back the mirror universe, the Klingons, and Space Hitler…and yes, have Michael freaking save the galaxy every season. That’s what the show should be, love it or hate it. It has no business pretending to be standard Star Trek.

Listen to me? Where did I say I wanted long extended mystery box stories that end in nonsensical resolutions like a crying Kelpien kid destroying the galaxy or time travel suits that create wormholes and can carry churches 50,000 light years?

Or creating plots that are meant for 3 episodes but stretched to 13 instead?

Because I’m pretty sure I never asked for that. I’m going to speak for others and say they didn’t either. But that’s what she’s been doing unfortunately.

And will you please stop bringing up the Fuller thing man. I have no problems you believe that, but you’re only bringing it up now to bait me and you know it; so stop playing this silly game. Look things have been cool between us, I see you are being very civil and not argumentative like in the past. Everything else you bring up has been fine and valid obviously even if I disagree personally. But I have NO problems ignoring you again if you go back to stuff like this. None. But I don’t want to do that obviously.

As for your wish list, you know none of that stuff will ever happen agin on this show. However if the Section 31 show actually gets made before my death, then it’s possible there if it returns to the 23rd century.

Well that’s kind of what I meant — they listened to the fans who wanted a more standard Trek series (I am speaking in general terms here) and their solution was not great. They would have been better off not doing that. And the crying kid destroying the galaxy was DSC trying to do TNG — that’s what they were trying to do I think based on the fan feedback.

I remember Fuller bringing up the possibility that the STVI era was one of the time periods that the show would go to. I am not making this up, nor am I trying to bait you. That is actually a really cool time period given the Klingon home-world catastrophe and Federation politics. I’d really like to see see a show in that era at some point, and I think DSC’s sort of edgier approach would be a great fit. That’s all. But sure, I will not bring it up on direct conversation between us again.

It still has to be GOOD man lol! C’mon! SNW is as standard as you can get and guess what, it’s also considered GOOD too, right? You can’t blame that alone.

I don’t think putting it in the 32nd century was the problem. I don’t think ignoring some of the issues of season 1 or 2 is either. Discovery just seems to have an identity crisis from the start they have been trying to fix and it still seems to be there. You can obviously disagree but that’s the way I read it. How can you not though when every season feels like a different show?

They try to ‘shake it up’ in some fashion every season. Season 3 and 4 feels pretty the same but that’s not a good thing lol.

The crying kid thing works as a single episode and when it’s not the ENTIRE galaxy. If this was a TNG story where, for example, they came across a planet where energy has stopped functioning and they found out it was due to some kid with super natural abilities or something that could be an interesting story. And a bit more believable (for Star Trek ;)). I think they just built up to much. And it doesn’t help when you are reading so many BETTER theories from fans themselves week and week and then it just feels anti-climatic 10 episodes later.

OK, I understand your point about the Fuller concept and yes I agree, so I apologize. Yes, he did make that as an example. But they made clear the 32nd century is where the show will be based from here on out. And it will only make things worse if they built up this century just to throw it somewhere else 3-4 years later. What’s the point?? And since we know there will be another 14 shows in the next 30 years, just make one specifically for that era and they can do all the things you are suggesting.

To me. the one thing I think they did RIGHT was put it in it’s own era and build on that just like thee 24th centuries shows did and Enterprise in the 22nd century. It didn’t have to be that far in the future but since its there, make that era it’s own and in time (I hope) other shows will exist there.

And I don’t want you or anyone to think I will stop talking to them because they are saying something I don’t like. You know that’s not what I’m saying . I would never try to censor anyone here. I just don’t want to do the tit-for-tat stuff post after post after post, that’s all. YOu can certainly disagree with every single thing I say here. You can tell me why I’m wrong over and over again. You can also tell me why you’re right over and over again. But at some point when it just becomes arguing just to argue stage and feeling one has to get the upper hand over the other instead of just having a conversation or debate, even if it gets heated, that’s when I’m out! That’s what you do when you’re married lol. I hope you understand.

Yea, I agree with your last paragraph — where we disagree here is that I don’t think anything was broken after the first two seasons, and you think a lot was broken. And it’s totally fine that we have opposite opinions on this.

I also agree that their response to listening to the fans was botched, although I still enjoyed S3 and thought it was a good season (S4 was weak though), just not up to the levels of S1 and S2.

And I think you are suggesting that we both need to accept this difference of opinion and move on or this could get toxic, and I agree with that, dude. I enjoy our conversations here. :-)

Yes, I did think things were broken. But here is the thing man, I NEVER suggested they throw the show 900 years into the future to fix it either lol. I don’t think ANYONE suggested that. I was more than OK it stayed right where it was and they just work on some of the problems there. In fact at the beginning of season 2, I thought that was the game plan when Pike showed up–make a bit more traditional Star Trek in that sense. Start the ball rolling. I said that back in season 2 many times. Now we know Pike and Spock was there because they thought it was their last chance to do something like that.

YES I wanted a show to go forward again, many of us did. But I didn’t say it had to be this one lol. Maybe the NEXT show can be in the 32nd century or something.

So that was really their idea. And I have said yes it probably was to fix some of their issues, but I REALLY think they just got tired of hearing YOU CAN’T DO THAT when it came to ideas they wanted to do by both the fans but also by their own restrictions. So I think they just said, ‘Eff it, instead of trying to toe the line and not get people yelling at us because you d-a-r-e-d showed Klingons having cloaking technology so soon, let’s put the show in an era where none of that is an issue anymore.” I think the stuff with the Klingon designs, Burnham being Spock’s sibling, stuff feeling too advanced and all of that was a factor. But the biggest one just seem like they were being tired of not having the freedom to just create whatever they wanted.

But when they said they were going to ‘reconcile’ the canon issues between DIS and TOS, I just thought that meant have the show feel more like TOS the longer it went on basically. OR become another SNW, which funny feels like the answer to all the complaints they got with Discovery. They were able to start new. But their plans with Discovery were more ambitious I think anyone us ever assumed.

“And I think you are suggesting that we both need to accept this difference of opinion an move on or this could get toxic, and I agree with that, dude.”

Yes, exactly! And I enjoy talking to you too!

We’re good! (-:

Well SNW is a standard (so far) that I would put up there with TOS and DS9. Yea, DSC is not as good as SNW, but noting in Trek has been this good since DS9 in my opinion.

Good discussion!

Since DS9 is my favorite show, obviously I agree. I would currently put SNW as my fourth favorite show right now, I’m enjoying it that much. Discovery however is my second to last favorite.

“5th and FINAL season” would have been preferable…

I dropped it at the end of S2 anyway, so as far as I’m concerned they can run it forever – I’m out.

I just hope that they waste less runtime standing around and talking about feelings, but move the plot forward. I know, I know Discovery is the Trek show where the final frontier is the inner self, but if they tell stories I would like them to be good and efficient. My question here: Will we in season 5 finally get to know the bridge crew? In SNW we already have a pretty good idea about the characters on the bridge after 6 episodes.

That was the biggest issue last season, things were happening but at a snail’s pace at times. Star Trek can be a lot of thing but it shouldn’t be boring and I was just bored through a lot of Discovery in seasons 3 and especially 4. The pacing was really bad a lot of the times because nothing was really happening in the story. The season could’ve been half the episodes easily. It really should’ve been.

As for the bridge crew, I felt in season 3 they finally did a little more of that but still could be stronger too. Hopefully it will.

Yep, Discovery really dragged at times in S4.

I’m still working through a rewatch with our youngest. Kurtzman used to describe Discovery as a “bullet” but it just seems soooo slow when contrasted with SNW. I can see why there are fans who liked
Discovery S1& S2 who want some of that pacing and energy back.

Season 2 is my favorite season in the show so far (but that’s not saying a lot lol).

But honestly, I think that season had the strongest amount of episodes overall. So I’m not just trying to put down the show or claim it was a waste before it jumped to the 32nd century. That season had tons of problems for sure and I hated the way they handled Control and turned it into a convoluted and generic Terminator plot but it did have great energy as you said. And I was definitely never bored!

That’s why I don’t think Michelle Paradise is a great show runner. She is the one who was completely in charge of seasons 3 and 4 and they just dragged. And another reason why fans are already feeling so negative for season 5 because she basically made clear they are going to just keep doing what they been doing. Sigh

I can see why there are fans who liked Discovery S1& S2 who want some of that pacing and energy back.

Yep! Those two seasons had gravitas, as well as drama in spades. And each had tremendous primary guest stars (Isaacs/Yeoh and Mount/Peck)

I hated the first three seasons, but loved the fourth; hopefully the love can carry over to the fifth, and through it.

Taking bets.


8 crying scenes.

9 whispering everything we speak scenes.

6 episodes that don’t feel like parts to a story, just more like chunks with no resolution.

4 fight scenes with excessively spinny bridge cameras.

3 fight scenes where you can see the synchronized bridge flamethrowers.

3 fight scenes where the ships shields are down to 60%, but there is bridge rock debris everywhere.

10 episodes of over-dramatic “trauma”.

I would take back all the hate I’ve given this show of they killed Burnham off and made it a Saru centred show.

I don’t hate the show but I will never get the Saru love. He’s…fine. But kinda dull, for me. There’s nothing to connect with there. :-/

And a Par-tridge Faahahamily!

Synchronized flamethrowers? You’re not kidding, are you? And how can they not have progressed past rock debris on the bridge, it was ludicrous back on YESTERDAY’S E (haven’t seen the show since end of s2, am actually wondering if it has gotten worse.)

It’s gotten worse. You’ve missed all the emotion sharing and talking about their feelings while the bridge is exploding. My mistake, not exploding… synchro-burning yes, that was a good description. I guess Michelle Paradise is a Kiss fan.

Sounds like the whole writing staff needs to group-watch THE RIGHT STUFF (followed by EXTREME PREJUDICE, newly out on blu-ray and looking good for the first time since its theatrical release, listen for one of Goldsmith’s best synthesizer/traditional mix scores) so they can maybe get the point that if you’re presenting your characters properly, the audience can understand a lot about their natures without them having to talk everything out like they’re in a shrink’s office.

If they’ve managed to make fire look routine, they’ve really done a disservice to things. One way that fire can look seriously spooky/threatening is to just do a second exposure with the fire and the actors not there (this works if you have fire-retardant sets, which I assume would be the norm by now), and then do the actor pass with interactive lighting. Shoot, you can even get a pretty good (but brief) chasing fire on-set with actors with flash paper loaded with flash powder, a combo I used in my Super-8 films so effectively that the cameraman jerked and stopped filming during one ‘blast.’ Looked like the arched ceiling overhead erupted in flame, but outside of the ‘pop’ sound, wasn’t really threatening at all as I recall, and I was standing almost directly under it at the time.

Sounds a lot like TOS.

There was more crying in one episode of Discovery than 3 seasons of TOS

Nobody whispered in TOS; the old 1960s mono TV speakers couldn’t handle it anyway

TOS was not a serialized show; the cast couldn’t even remember what happened the prior week

All the TOS fight scenes were staged with fixed cameras; and often clearly visible stunt doubles with really sketchy wigs

I believe I only saw an open flame once on the TOS Enterprise; some smoke and a few sparks but hardly any fire – those wooden sets would not have liked it

There was never any debris on the bridge of the TOS Enterprise; a few too many tribbles once but that was about as bad as it ever got

TOS officers were professionals who didn’t need a daily group hug to get by

LOL, dude, they even had Spock cry in TOS. Spock! And more than once!

Friday’s Child — McCoy whispers privately to Kirk: “I just called the Klingon a liar.” And lot’s of whispering in the TOS movies.

Camera technology and use was different in the 60’s, but that camera style of the fight scenes is analogous to what I have seen in some of DSC fight scenes.

TOS movies: TMP — debris on bridge post V’ger appearance. WOK — debris on bridge. WOK — starship Reliant, ton’s of bridge debris. TSFS — entire ship destroyed = bridge becomes debris, lol

TOS movies: fires on the bridge, at least twice, possibly 3 times?

Kirk’s behavior in Obsession — totally unprofessional. Same for Spock in Amok Time. Nuff said on that.

Kirk defends his position very deftly in OBSESSION, noting that intuition is a command prerogative. You can say he is making a bad call, but professionals do that — look at Frankenheimer’s BLACK SUNDAY. If Robert Shaw doesn’t make a bad call about not killing Marthe Keller in the opening raid, there is no movie, and so all the deaths are on his head in a way.

That’s fair, but I was also considering that his treatment of Engisn Garrovick was unprofessional and emotionally reactive. Also, given the Starfleet regulation that a Captain can be temporarily removed from command from being emotionally compromised, I think an argument could be made that Kirk came close to exhibiting this sort of behavior in the ep.

That’s the annoying thing about TURNABOUT INTRUDER. McCoy should have been able to yank Janice/Kirk’s command and nip all that in the bud halfway through the episode given what had been established in OBSESSION and other good eps. Now I happen to enjoy TURNABOUT, mainly because I like the long trial scene and to chuckle over Shatner’s choices, but even the first couple times I saw it this was a red flag for me, even before I knew episode order or that this was the last episode of the series. (OBSESSION is like ARENA, a show I seemed to catch on every rerun, so I had amassed a couple dozen views by the time TMP came out, owing to how the show played on two different stations daily in the Bay Area.)

Interesting! Yes, I agree with all of that.

I guess my subtle attempt at humor was a little too subtle. Still bringing the movies into the argument is a bit desperate as the conversation was squarely about the TV shows.

LOL, yea, I did need to go to the movies on some of those points — I admit that was a tad desperate, but they were TOS movies. Guilty as charged! ;-)

I’d call that McCoy aside more of a soto-voce than a whisper. But McCoy does whisper at the end of OPERATION ANNIHILATE, so you’re still right on that point, but what debris is seen in TMP?

TOS did use handheld in some action stuff, like Senensky bringing it out along with the fisheye lens for Spock’s freakout after seeing the Medusa.

On the V’Ger probe bridge arrival scene, Spock busts up the science station keyboard/controls. Yea, that is stretching it a bit, but it did create some minor debris on the bridge. :-)

I was fortunate enough to see the new version on the big screen in LA a few weeks back, so it’s fresh in my mind (hadn’t seen it before that since the directors DVD back in 2001, but saw the original at the theater many times back in Dec-Feb 1979/1980),

If nothing else, I would be happy just to do waaaay less crying lol. My god it’s less crying on the Young and the Restless.

And yeah cut down on the trauma too.

And it’s OK to have both of these things at times, but Discovery treats everything like a Lifetime movie.

I’d rather have Hallmark and aspirational relationships.

So, would Doug Jones from what we know.

Still thinking that there’s a place for a lighthearted, Hallmark type direct-to-streaming romance movie. I’d watch a movie where Sarek and Amanda get together, Worf finds a new mate, Geordi finally finds love, or any random Trek odd couple, Starfleet not required.

In “Balance of Terror” you didn’t enjoy the plaster dust in the bridge of the Romulan Warbird?

Count me as a fan who thinks Discovery is feeble stuff. Oh, well we can all be grateful it spawned the stellar SNW. It’s something I guess.

It’s amazing how much we think alike on this stuff! Yes, ‘feeble’ is a great to describe Discovery.

Pleased to see another season under way. I’m assuming from the start date it’ll be ready early next years.

Also, it’s not an either/or situation with DISC and SNW’s. They co-exist just fine.

Well said, Phil.

I bet Discovery wraps after Season 7. That way they can market that Star Trek is back and that they have produced the first Star Trek show to run seven seasons since Voyager. And on the other hand, finally put it to bed and move on to a better told Star Trek story – like Strange New Worlds for instance. That’s not me being petty. I have many misgivings about Discovery. I don’t hate it. I frustrates me. I’m disappointed with it. But over the course of its run, the producers have learned a lot about trekkies and a lot about Star Trek and how to tell a Star Trek story and I do think that the future of Star Trek is brigth.

I agree that 7 seasons it what I would guess as their target.

If being like VOYAGER is in any way the new criteria for ‘proving’ trek is back, then that’s not setting the bar very high unless you’re the Gecko in the Geico commercials.

Yay more homework. I watch Disco because it’s Star Trek, but I won’t rewatch it. But I rewatch SNW many times over because it’s good Star Trek. Logical? Probably not. But watching Disco is like doing homework

Yep, unfortunately. But: Hope dies last… 🤷‍♂️

How is this show still on the air? I would rather have a STAR TREK: ARCHER series, which chronicles what happened 15 years or so after the end of ENT. After all, we know about the Earth-Romulan War and the subsequent founding of the Federation. And, personally, I want to see the NX-01 refit in action.

It’s not on the air. It’s streaming, and it’s still streaming because people watch it. That’s how tv works.

And you couldn’t pay me to watch an Archer show.

I always feel gut-punched at the thought of the Archer/Bakula, worst captain in the franchise, as the first President of the Federation.

What this does suggest is though that there may be financial case to make two hour direct-to-streaming movies for some of these niche colour in the spaces stories that most of us rely on Treklit for.

It’s still in production, because people watch it. I suppose that if someone convinces TPTB that the audience wants more Archer, they’ll give that a spin. Would I watch it? Probably, but even thinking about is bringing back memories that Bakula’s Archer was more often then not, very, very cringe worthy….

Oh man, can the Federation rebuild itself when facing dilithium shortages and races aiming to destroy it before it can revitalize itself and where the spore drive is making starships obsolete by just beaming from planet to planet causing galactic chaos? Can you beam through shields now and is combat all boarding parties?!?
Also what happens when you EMP a ship and severe the connection to that nacelles that they just go flying away.
Nah, it’s okay people, we can play holodeck. All is resolved.
Who will find love and technobabble something next time on Star Trek: The Young and the Restless.

Isn’t Voyager’s back up copy of their EMH on his way to the Alpha quadrant at about this time? Or maybe he is the captain of the Voyager-J. Easy way to get Robert Picardo on the show.

what new anomaly will threaten the universe this time?

I loved season 4