The second season of Star Trek: Strange New Worlds has already been filmed, and on Star Trek Day, TrekMovie had a chance to talk to co-showrunner Henry Alonso Myers about what fans can expect when the series returns.
For season 2, would you say it is a different season or more of what worked in season 1?
I want to say more of what’s worked. But I would also say, in some ways, it’s different. We were trying to take what worked and really amplify that. And then try to correct where we weren’t happy with it. But the biggest thing we tried to do was not hold back stuff. We were really like, “Okay, let’s pretend this is our last season. And let’s absolutely go for everything that we wanted to do.”
You didn’t have any fan feedback before you did season 2, so can you give examples of what you thought was working?
I would say we tried to do comedy, and we were like, “Let’s go for bigger comedy. Let’s make things bigger and crazier.” We tried to do drama, so we wanted to really kind of go to the gut of stuff and make episodes that were going to make you cry.
And something you wanted to correct?
One of the things that I wanted to do a correction on was that I feel like we weren’t able to really touch on every single character. We’ve worked really hard to try to give every character their moment in the show. That’s the hardest thing about the show.
Like how Ortegas didn’t get one in season 1?
Yeah, and Ortegas does get one in [season 2]. And frankly, I wish I could have more episodes for everyone. Because we have this incredible cast. And I would love to write stories for all of them. I know that everyone in the writers’ room feels that way.
Melissa Navia as Erica Ortegas in season two clip
Does the 10-episode season limit how you approach it, unlike the old days with 25 episodes where you could do silly bottle episodes that sometimes turned out amazing?
That was my favorite thing.
Your fantasy episode [“The Elysian Kingdom”] was kind of like that.
That was absolutely a bottle show.
So you don’t feel the pressure to deliver big character moments or plot action every week?
No. That was an episode that was both silly and gut-wrenching. I think all episodes – whether you are doing 25 or just 10 – really do have to deliver on that. I think it’s really important that we’re not wasting the time with the audience. We want to make sure that it feels like you’re actually having an emotional experience; that the characters actually go through a journey that means something. That doesn’t really change. I do wish we had more episodes so we got to explore more things about more of our characters because I love all of them.
Carol Kane joins as new engineer in season 2
Season 1 had a bit of a thread with the Gorn plotline. You would agree they were the big bad of the season?
Yeah.
So is there a different big bad for season 2? Or a different plot throughline?
I would say that we try to carry through on the promises we made in season 1. That’s what I would say.
So, more Gorn?
I will not say any more than that. [laughs] Okay, here’s what I’d say. In season 1, a lot of our throughlines were really about character. And that’s how we approach season 2, except we tried to do it in a bigger, more intense, crazier way. The characters are at the heart of every story. We’re not telling stories without telling stories about character. And that’s really what season 2 is about. But that also means bigger science fiction ideas, bigger stranger worlds, crazier things. We try a couple of things that have never been done on Trek before—personally I believe successfully. But I can’t really wait for people to see and to judge for themselves.
A young Gorn from “All Those Who Wander”
When do you expect to get the season 3 pickup?
I mean, any day now, you know. [laughs]
They did send out that press release talking about how well the show is doing internationally.
Here’s the truth. Our network partners—they’re running a business. They have a way that they have to go about things. They have different things that they have to check on. I am patient.
But you have thought about it and written things down?
Oh yeah. [laughs] Many conversations. Yes, there is work being done on season 3, whether officially or not.
More to come
TrekMovie spoke to a number of Trek celebrities and creatives on the purple carpet at Star Trek Day 2022, so check back for more exclusive interviews.
Rewatch the season 2 clip
Season 2 arrives in 2023. Here is the Star Trek Day clip from the Ortegas-focused episode.
Keep up with news for the Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com.
Season one was so much fun and I really did love all the comedy in the show. Some of the canon stuff bothered me but not to the level it took away from the show, unlike Discovery’s first season (but it had muuuch bigger canon issues ;)).
But can’t wait for more and really really looking forward to the Lower Decks crossover episode. It’s great to see Star Trek doing weird trippy stuff again like TOS and the other classic shows.
Yeah this was it for me 100%. I think it’s probably impossible for any new Star Trek show to not violate canon somewhere some how. But discovery did it in such a way that it totally took me out of the show.
SNW does it too but somehow it’s way more acceptable than how it was in disco.
SNW gets away with it because A. it’s just better written IMO and B. they do try hard to keep to the overall look of the TOS era which Discovery completely avoided and why it’s in the 32nd century now.
I’ll be fair to Discovery and say if it wasn’t the first show out off the gate after 12 years with no show on, it may not have been criticized as harshly if it came out later. But it was too different for fans in so many ways it lost people very fast. But if it was the third show or something to appear maybe the reception wouldn’t have been as harsh. Or maybe it would’ve been worse lol. You never know with Trek fans. ;)
But if it went the direction SNW went back in 2017, it would probably been a very different reception compared to today but yeah that’s all in hindsight now.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Discovery seems so backwards to be. When it was in the 23rd century it seemed like a show set in the 32nd century with all the canon breaking advanced tech and ship they had. Now that they are actually IN the 32nd century suddenly it feels like technology hasn’t advanced in a millennia and everything went into hibernation for centuries.
LOL, true. The fact Discovery is still one of the most advanced ships in the 32nd century really goes to your point. ;)
I mean forget the “ugghh” spore drive, The USS Prodigy and Daunless both travel way faster than WARP. Transporters that you can hold in your hand are nothing new, we had those in Nemesis. Did everyone just forget?
What doesn’t really make sense is that they managed to upgrade a 900 year old (!) ship into one sth. actually usable by 32nd century Starfleet. But there is a lot of new stuff like those “super-replicators” which can create consoles, badges which function as tricorders and transporters, detached warp nacelles
The super replicators. I mean ok. But even today we are a hop skip and a jump from that with 3D printers. Detachable nacelles, sure. But what do those even do? What is the purpose of having them detachable? Badges which function as transporters, well, Data saved Picard in Nemesis with a portable transporter.
I guess what I am saying is that, yes, they have shows some new tech, but what has always been great about Star Trek is that the tech has always made sense. From warp drive to heisenberg compensators in transporters. It feels like Discovery is just throwing stuff at the wall, and nothing important enough to make a functional difference in the way Starfleet operates. Like being reliant on Dilithium in the 32nd century is like us still needing to power our cars with steam engines.
The spore drive was really the only thing on Star Trek Discovery that was a huge canon violation. It obviously didn’t belong in that era unless it was in the Kelvin timeline. Which honestly it probably should have been. But I still consider using aliens no one had known about yet to be far worse. At least they tried to explain why the spore tech was not known a decade or more later. It was a lame and silly explanation but at least they tried. Where is the explanation for how Pike & Co know about the Gorn when no one else did later? Sorry. The usage of the Gorn is worse. And as I’ve said, I’m not a huge canon guy. Especially if you make something good or the canon violation cannot be avoided in service to a really good story. Not only has the show not been that good but this… There was no excuse for it.
None.
I agree and have been saying that for ages. Discovery wasn’t nesscarily abd but was a foolish show to LEAD WITH, if SNW had been the first show they started with, people might have complained about a prequal series but would have over all been on board
I really do believe if Discovery was a Sci Fi show that wasnt a “Star Trek” show, I would have liked the first 2 seasons a lot more.
Decent point. If you made Discovery The Orville, for example, it would have eliminated the canon complaints. But the bad characters, writing and atrocious plotting would have remained. It’s the same argument used when folks say it should have been a reboot. Which I personally agree with but the other problems would still remain. Moving the show setting to the future still doesn’t fix the fundamental problems the show has. And in fact those first two seasons are an albatross and likely will remain with them forever.
I still think SNW would have garnered the exact same complaints it currently gets had it been the lead show. The only difference would be there might still be hope it could get better because we wouldn’t have had the history of Secret Hideout failures before it.
We wouldn’t have gotten SNW without discovery, the second season of discovery is my favourite for that reason. Disco isn’t bad, they were right in that it didn’t belong in that timeline. The cast is brilliant it’s the writing that’s a bit see-saw because they kept changing their mind on what to do and they were bogged down by the season long arc. I adored Michelle Yeoh.
I honestly think that writers use the excuse that canon is a crutch way too much. To be clear, I loved SNW season 1 and I am ok with it canon wise. But is canon really hard to follow? Just change the name of the species attacking the Enterprise from “Gorn” to something else and BAM, you’re done. I disline it when writers lean too heavily on relying on past fan favorites of Trek canon and then complain about having to adhere to that canon. Just do something new and if your stories are strong you will be fine.
This this this!!!! There was just no reason they HAD to use the Gorn! I’ve said over and over (and stunned there was NO ONE on their staff to suggest this) that they could have used another known Trek alien (the Kzinti would have been perfect and an attempt to use them should have been made) or failing that just make one up! Regarding Chapel knowing about T’Pring they just had to keep Chapel out of every scene that involved T’Pring in some way. A but of a stretch but at least it would have been an attempt to keep things in line.
That’s my biggest beef with SNW. They made HUGE canon mistakes when they were so very easy to avoid!! It’s soooo frustrating! Make those changes and literally NOTHING changes about your show! There was just no reason to use the Gorn except SNW producers thinking “We like the Gorn so screw what came before we’ll just do it.” That is such amazing disrespect for the source material. And again… If all Secret Hideout productions were reboots… Fine. Go to town. But they keep saying it’s not.
SMDH.
I loved the comedy of SNW and I think I have mentioned before that as amazing as the Berman era was, this was something that was seriously lacking. I just hope they don’t go too far in the opposite direction and they keep a good balance.
I have to disagree with that. We got TONS of great comedic episodes in the Berman era. Some my favorite Trek episodes of all time:
-Q-Pid
-House of Quark
-Bride of Chatotica
-Fist Full of Datas
-Body and Soul (Actually rewatched this one again a day ago)
-Little Green Men
-In the Cards
-Trials and Tribble-altions
-Carbon Creek
-Take me out to the Holosuite
That’s top 10 (off the top of my head anyway). There are certainly more. There were definitely lots of duds though like Fair Haven and the episode where Quark is pretending to be a woman. I can’t think of the title but ugh. I actually didn’t like most of the Quark comedic ones but House of Quark is really one of the best IMO.
It still amazes me, DS9 was one of the darkest shows and yet still had some of the best comedic episodes in the entire franchise. Why I love that show so much.
Sure, you’re right, there was comedy. I guess I am talking about about the % of them? I mean at 7 seasons / 24 per season you are going to have the gambit of everything. But TOS and SNW are practically like 60/40%
OK, fair enough!
It would seem that light or comedic episodes of Trek are very hard to get right. There was really only perhaps 2 TOS episodes that contained those elements that worked. And Berman era Trek was particularly bad at it. Supposedly the Troi’s mom eps were done that way but of them all but one sucked. And it wasn’t lightly done. DS9 Ferengi episodes were supposed to be the lighter ones there and none of them were any good either. In fact, the one that worked was the crossover with what I think we can all agree was the gold standard for Trek comedy. The Trouble With Tribbles. I don’t mind them continuing to try from time to time but with such short seasons it doesn’t feel like a good gamble to waste 10% of your season on such a low percentage gamble. Hell, in the Secret Hideout era even the show that is SUPPOSED to be comedy isn’t funny! That should be the signal to not try right there.
it doesn’t hurt that the Gorn are also not nearly as big a part of trek lore as Klingons. I mean people learn Klingon, have Klingon weddings etc. Klingon Fans make up a “subculture” of the fanbase that are some of the most passionate fans trek has. I’m not saying you shouldn’t ever do anything new and differant with Klingons but you need to do it respectfully and carefully or you WILL get pushback. meanwhile changee the gorn up and people’ll grumble sure but they’re not gonna be as emotionally invested in the race.
That’s how I feel about it. Yes I agree with people who think maybe it wasn’t the best idea to use them in this period, but they were in one freaking episode in TOS and never used again until In a Mirror, Darkly which took place in the MU. The Klingons however has been in every show and movie series and has been the main characters in more stories than I can count at this point. Not nearly the same with the Gorn, so I’m fine with using them although I wish they didn’t go all ‘Alien’ with them either.
Yes, the Gorn were in only one episode but they left an indelible mark on the franchise. Good or bad that Gorn was a HUGE part of Star Trek. That episode was referenced in other things for years to come from Bill & Ted to Shatner doing an ad with the Gorn. One could say that had the Klingons only appeared one time would they have such a following? I doubt it. To reduce the Gorn to “no big deal they were only in one episode” doesn’t give the true context.
I think you’re kind of exaggerating how huge they were or they would’ve been in more than 2 episodes in the franchise. No one knows who the Gorn are unless you were a Star Trek fan to begin with.
And the irony is now they have a real chance to explore them and actually give them a bigger presence. End of the day that’s much more important than worrying about when they first appeared from an episode over 55 years ago. That should be the real focus now.
Don’t think so. The Gorn have easily made a bigger splash than any other one episode alien. Had the Klingons been in just one no one would remember them. The Gorn stood out. Non fans may not know the word “Gorn” but casual viewers are very likely familiar with the image. Either for the coolness of the reptilian alien or as an example of the cheapness or ‘campiness’ of the old show. But they did stand out.
There has always been a chance to explore them. TNG could have done it at any time. Picard can do it. Star Trek Discovery now that they are in the far future can do it. The opportunity was always there. You know when you CAN’T do it? On any show set before the events of Arena took place.
A side effect of this was it helped cement how good Mannty Coto was running Enterprise. He said he loved the Gorn and wanted to use them but knew he could not given the time frame Enterprise was set in. So he did not give in to his desire to use them and instead found an acceptable workaround.
I wasn’t talking about casual viewers, just people in general, and the Gorn isn’t some known alien. I can tell you my own family doesn’t have a clue what they are because they don’t watch Star Trek lol. I don’t even understand the argument now?
The point is NO ONE has explored them until now. OK? I Know, it sucks, but there is man. Just have to move on. It’s a TV show.
If you are talking people in general then they don’t even know about the Borg. So I don’t think that is a very good point, to be honest. But if you showed a pic of the Arena Gorn and a pic of a Borg to randoms on the street who never saw Trek I’d wager more would recognize the Gorn than the Borg.
The point is when someone decides to explore the Gorn isn’t the issue or a problem. The problem is the context of the show that is doing it. They could have used Gorn on any show set AFTER the events of Arena. Opting to “explore” them as a species on SNW, a show set well BEFORE the events of Arena makes no sense chronologically if your show is supposed to be set in the prime universe. As we both know, if you are doing something independent of that, like a reboot then sure. Go to town with the Borg. But if you want to keep your little show in line with what came before then it would be good if the producers could at least make an attempt to follow the established rules and events.
I know we are talking fiction vs history in the following example but this would be akin to making a show about Howard Carter and then showing him uncovering King Tut’s tomb in 1910. Not for any drama purposes or for poetic license reasons they just did it because they wanted him to find it earlier in their story and no other reason. And in doing so changing the sequence of his life doesn’t change the story they were telling in any way shape or form. They just did it because they liked that event so they moved it forward to satisfy their personal jollies.
This is just one of a a number of things that makes me irritated with Secret Hideout and really wish their deal would get terminated ASAP.
Dude it’s kind of silly to debate these things and the Borg was in a movie and multiple TV shows with Seven of Nine as a very popular character to represent them as many people who don’t watch Trek knows who she is, but whatever. We’ll move on.
Again, the point is the Gorn is not a known species outside of Star Trek because they barely exist in the franchise itself. Now they have the chance to do something more with them. I have no issues with that. But as I also agree yes they could’ve used someone else. We have been through this same argument about 30 times now. But it’s over, they are a part of SNW and sounds like they will be this crew’s Borg or Dominion.
It’s just sad if you can’t enjoy the show because you’re letting an episode from 50 years ago get in the way of that. This is when its time to take a step back and just tell yourself it’s all fiction and that all these shows have changed canon, many much worse than this.
As for Secret Hideout, I think Alex Kurtzman latest contract will be up in 2027, so you have at least five more years of anguish lol. Since it sounds like SNW will not be a show you will like hopefully the next one will be more to your liking.
I think you are missing the point. If the Borg had only been in one episode they certainly not have reached the heights the Gorn have. That one appearance resonated well beyond that one episode. As evident by the clowns at Secret Hideout wanting to use them because they were fascinated with them. Also Manny Coto wanting to use them (but didn’t in the prime because he respected Trek lore) because he was fascinated with them. The Gorn are used as an example of Trek campiness and coolness at the same time. Sorry but the Gorn are more than just a forgettable one episode alien. A lot more. And I get your point about aliens and even characters that appeared in multiple episodes but let’s not go overboard with 7 of 9. She was certainly a fan favorite among people who watched Voyager. But if you never saw that show her recognizability is likely low. In fact, I’d wager that if you showed a photo of the Gorn and one of 7 of 9 to non fans who have never seen an episode of Trek the range would likely be fairly even recognizing them if that. And 7 appeared in 4 full seasons. The reason is because the Gorn managed to transcend that one appearance . So please… Enough with the failed “they were only in one 50 year old episode” argument. It just doesn’t fly.
There have been some big canon violations by SH but this one is particularly egregious and super hard to forgive as it is so very very obvious and huge. I’ve said I could live with what they did to Chapel especially if the overall show was decent but the Gorn thing… Just shows amazing ignorance/disrespect. And again… Imagine if they did a show about Picard as a young man on the Stargazer and cast him as from Bora Bora? And the argument was “you are letting a small detail get in the way of enjoying something.” Not sure anyone would think that a reasonable response.
Secret Hideout already had their deal extended so I’m not holding out any hope it will end. Prodigy is easily the best thing SH has done and I’m thinking that may be the show that has the least upper upper management involvement. Sadly at this point it will probably only end if Kurtzman wants out. Given his track record I don’t see him giving up this gravy train.
LOL I just think you are ridiculously overhyping the Gorn man. I don’t think anyone really knows or care about them outside Star Trek fans and even with that it’s mostly TOS fans that even cares about them since they been in one episode. This is probably the most I’ve seen people even talk about them on a Star Trek message board in decades. But OK, agree to disagree.
As for the Picard analogy A. He was in more than one episode lol. And B. I thought you are more upset about using them in an earlier time period, not how they were portrayed? But yes we already got how fans felt about that with Khan in STID.
Again I don’t disagree with your basic premise they shouldn’t have been used, I’m saying it’s not the first time either this has been done. Discovery introduced the Mirror Universe first even though we know it was in TOS that first discovered it as well but you didn’t seem as bothered by that for some reason IIRC. It’s yet another reason I’m not a big fan of prequels in the first place because they just can’t seem to help themselves.
But yeah dude you ARE letting a 55 year old episode get in the way of your enjoyment of this show. If that episode never existed, would you like the show more now? If the answer is yes, then yeah that’s the point. But it’s your right to feel that way obviously.
Here is a perfect example of what I mean about how none fans know who the Gorn are. I posted this video before in another thread but it drives home the point. It’s only a few minutes long but actually shows them watching Arena.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZFh-PDEwRo
These are people who know nothing about Star Trek obviously and seeing the Gorn for the first time. They at least know who Spock and Kirk are but have no idea of who or what a Gorn is other than a ‘lizard in a dress’. This was made just four years ago.
Although they thought TOS was a little goofy they did like it. Not so much with Discovery though lol.
Agreed. There are different degrees of canon as far as I am concerned. When Arena is beloved, the Gorn were really only important in 1 ep of Trek and have virtually no background where as the Klingons are second only to humans in background canon.
It’s not so much that they changed them up but that they were using the Gorn to begin with.
Any excuse to pile on Discovery, am I right?
Let’s not forget that if not for Discovery and the positive reaction to Season 2- we would not have Strange New Worlds.
I said ONE line in my OP about Discovery and was making the point how I don’t have as much of an issue with SNW canon issues as I did Discovery’s since that’s the only other show with these new shows I have canon issues with. It was a direct comparison for a reason.
M1701, I’m just going to be honest, but 80% of your posts here seems to be you complaining about people who say mean things about Discovery. Dude, I don’t know what to tell you but you’re on a Star Trek board! People are going to be honest how they feel, stop taking it so personally. But yet that’s all you mostly do, come here to feel offended. I hear people say critical things over the shows and movies I like ALL the time here. And I love 90% of the shows (and about 60% of the films, for some reasons the movies are always more a mixed bag) and you don’t see me complaining when someone says something negative about a show or film, right? If they say something I disagree with, I will say so. But I have never once told someone they shouldn’t say bad things about something I like.
I LOVE Lower Decks for example. I see people criticize it here all the time and I’m 100% fine with that. Yes, maybe not as much as Discovery but still see it of course. Not everyone loves it and their reasons are usually pretty valid. You have to accept people will just say what’s on their mind or why bother posting at all? That’s why most of us come here, certainly me.
And I’ll ask you two questions and I’ll shut up. But A. Has anyone gotten on your case when you have criticized a show or movie here? B. Has anyone here ever gotten on your case because you love Discovery? If the answer is no to both of those questions, then you have to either accept people’s opinions or find a board with people who only say things you want to hear. Don’t know what else to tell you.
Can I get a TL;DR version of this because I can’t be bothered to read all of that garbage.
I get you don’t like me defending Discovery or me calling people out for incessentantly trashing the show at any opportunity- but I’m entitled to my opinion and I’m entitled to voice it. You seem to think that I don’t accept other viewpoints, which frankly is BS. If anything YOU are the one with the issue. YOU are the one who brings up your hatred of Discovery at EVERY AVAILABLE OPPORTUNITY- even in articles that have NOTHING to do with Discovery.
Im really getting the sense that the group mind here isn’t tolerant of minority opinions. So much for IDIC.
You’re on a Star Trek message board. We’re giving our opinions. Stop sounding so offended over it or find a place people will just say things you want to hear because it will NEVER change here. You’re the one who can’t tolerant different opinions dude; that’s the irony and my point lol. ;)
And I don’t hate Discovery. I think the show is much better today than it was in its first season and said so many, many times. But yeah I still have lots of issues with the show for sure. The fact you think I hate it just because I bring up issues with it, as I do for EVERY show tells me you take these things a little too personally.
Let’s not overinflate Star Trek Discovery. It wasn’t the positive reaction to season 2. That season was pretty much trounced and hated by a great many of viewers. It was Mount’s portrayal as Pike that garnered pretty much the only positive comments in all of season 2.
Seriously. Outside of Mandy Patinkin in CHICAGO HOPE s1, I can’t remember the last time a lead did such heavy lifting so successfully on a series that wasn’t exactly beloved.
There was comedy in that season?
Also I would say the canon violations in SNW are far worse than what they did in Star Trek Discovery. Theirs were mostly just visual. This one made fundamental changes to Trek history and even character histories. Which to me is FAR worse than changing up the look of the Klingons, for example.
Well we definitely have to agree to disagree on that. Yes SNW definitely have a lot of canon issues, I have always said that. But I still really enjoy the show and they don’t bother me as much because it feels like its in the TOS era again which Discovery felt like it never truly was.
Like I have said… I can deal with canon violations if the work is good. The best example is WoK. Or even if the work is a little less and that violation was 100% necessary for their story to work. But let’s not kid ourselves. SNW just hasn’t been good enough to tolerate their spitting on the source material for their own vain purposes. And their stories weren’t reliant in any way on the Gorn being present or Chapel being aware of T’Pring (that one is a smaller violation in my mind but it is certainly out of character, among other aspects).
I don’t think you can deal with canon violations as much as you say you can lol. But OK.
You are wrong. As I said, WoK had a decent sized one and some pretty decent plot holes. But the film was still immensely enjoyable. I liked Enterprise overall but they committed some canon violations as well. They weren’t so egregious that it ruined the entire series. This Gorn thing is pretty big. As I have said… Just imagine if they did a show about the younger years of the TNG crew and they made Picard Argentine. You don’t think they would take any kind of heat for that? That is the level of blunder they have made regarding the Gorn.
OK, fair enough. But I don’t equate that with the Gorn and since they only been in two episodes until now we hardly know anything about them unlike Picard which we know tons. But we been around this circle enough already, I get your point.
OK but I still don’t think that the argument about being only in two episodes flies. The Gorn’s one appearance transcended well beyond that, as their popularity among recent show runners suggests. At least one, Coto, had the respect NOT to use them in the Prime timeline.
It’s a TV show. They can change whatever they want. Star Trek has already been doing it for decades with other species and much bigger ones at that. You are acting like its the first time or something. It isn’t.
We certainly agree though, Manny Coto was a better writer and really took care to keep canon in place. I would love for him to be in charge of SNW although I don’t have a huge problem with the current writers outside of the canon issues we’re discussing.
Just a quick question if anyone can answer. Other than “because”, WHY are there not more than 10 episodes for SNW? I am quite fine with 10 episodes for everything else. If it’s doing that well, why not make SNW the flagship series for Trek and make more episodes? I get that Paramount wants at least something Trek that is new and airing every week. As a fan, who has watched everything Trek, give me more of what I want.
The answer kind of is “because.” Most streaming shows are following the “prestige TV” pattern established by HBO 20+ years ago because show business is a copycat league. Short seasons is baked into the formula of success for anything not on a traditional broadcast schedule.
Most streaming shows have between 8-10 episodes these days. Shows way more popular and bigger like most of the Marvel and Star Wars shows all have less than 10. Look at Paramount+ as a whole, how many of their original shows today have more than 10 episodes? This is now becoming the industry standard for streaming. If SNW or any of the Trek shows was on a network it would probably have at least 13-15 episodes. Prodigy has 20 and that’s because officially it’s a Nickolodean product that is being shared with P+.
I won’t be too surprised if the Star Trek shows become reduced to 8 episodes a year. It probably won’t happen anytime soon, but it is possible, especially if it’s a strategy to squeeze in six shows a year.
Actually Discovery did have at least 13 episodes for its first 4 seasons so I wouldn’t mind if they increase the SNW episodes to 13 in the future seasons but I heard something about Anson Mount not wanting to be too much away from his family so that may also be one of the reasons why they are keeping SNW with the 10 episode format.
No, that’s not it either. Again, 10 episodes has just become the industry standard in streaming in America. Paramount+ is the perfect example of that. All of their original one hour dramas are 10 episodes max. Some are a bit lower like Halo which is 9, but 90% of them are 10. To drive the point home more, there are two shows that was originally on the CBS network like Seals Team and Evil that had between 13-22 episodes a season. Now both of them are exclusively on Paramount+ and take a guess what their episode count is now? You guessed it, 10 episodes.
Discovery started out with 13 average but season 5 will now have 10 as the other shows. And someone on another site theorized the first four seasons had more because that was probably the original deal with Netflix and to make 13 episodes each. And that deal was struck back in 2016 when streaming shows were still around 13 episodes. Now exclusively under P+, it too has fallen to the new standard.
We all want more Star Trek, but it could be worse, we could be getting 6-8 episode seasons like most of the MCU and Star Wars shows get.
Ugghh yeah. Obi Wan was way to short.
But in Ob-Wan’s case this viewer didn’t really get annoyed by that. It wasn’t all that good. Did it suck? Not really. But it certainly wasn’t good by any means. It had a lot of problems with it.
The only answer I can come up with, which is a total stab in the dark, is that other than the fact that this is the new norm, perhaps it is because a) less eps per season = more budget per ep. And more importantly b) If your show is one that is a continuing story throughout the season (which of course SNW is not) then more than 10 eps per season might be too many for the audience to follow.
Please, no more Gorn. They were the biggest mistake of season one since they were never meant to be villains in the first place. That’s the theme of “Arena”–they were misunderstood. The humans were the villains in that episode. SNW’s writers got the Gorn so wrong, The reason of the season was amazing, but the Gorn were badly handled. Very badly handled.
Humans were NOT the villains. While they might have encroached on what the Gorn felt was their territory they didn’t deserve to be massacred. Nor were the Gorn clear about their borders. They have not handled the Gorn badly, if anything they’ve made them a lot more interesting than a now-silly looking man in a suit and a cameo on ENT.
While the effects have certainly improved, making the Gorn ‘evil’ xenomorph style villains is not an improvement in terms of writing. It’s just basic monster stuff.
The Gorn borders and claimed territory were not clear because NO ONE KNEW THEY EXISTED!!!!!!!
That is one of many many reasons why the Gorn were not handled well at all. In fact, that is too generous a statement. The Gorn shouldn’t have been “handled” on SNW at all. Their look can obviously change and get modern updates. That was not, and will never really be a problem for aliens we don’t see much of. The problem was using them to begin with.
Neither side was villainous, it came down to a misunderstanding over territory. That’s what they realized when the Gorn captain said they were the invaders. No villains there, only different tribes badly communicating with one another. Like real life.
True. I 100% agree using the Gorn was a terrible mistake. And yes, if you take SNW events as canon then the entire episode of Arena no makes no sense whatsoever on nearly every single level.
I adore Strange New Worlds. I’ve liked all the Treks except Enterprise at least a little bit, but SNW is my favorite after TOS. So more of the same but even bigger sounds PERFECT!
SNW is success because it (except for the Gorn) hasn’t fallen into a season-long angst-fest like Picard and Discovery. The lightly connected SNW weekly episodes are a very welcome breath of fresh air by comparison. The second-season story has to be about Una. An under-utilized character, if there ever was one. The Hemmer gone before we really knew him thing bugged me too. And frankly who really cares about Kirk and Kirk right now. Maybe at the last episode to bridge into the next show, but not now. This show is about Pike and co. The first episode was such an inspiration. Strange new worlds and a crew that was doing its thing before the Q, alternate universes and the Dominion. Just the traditional baddies – Klingons and Romulans. Please remember the KISS principal with SNW.
The irony in your statement is we didn’t see a single Klingon in the first season. And we’re NOT suppose to see any Romulans in this period but they cleverly got away with it in the finale.
As a person who was kind of sick of Klingons at one point now miss seeing the Klingons lol. I’m thankful we’ll be seeing Worf again soon but I would love to see some 23rd century bad guys again…but only if they look like the traditional Klingons like Worf and stay far away from the Discovery Orc versions.
I want to see the Klingons at least once on SNW so they can hopefully correct the DISCO Klingons.
Based on what we seen of the Klingons on Lower Decks and Prodigy so far, I think they will be closer to traditional Klingons again since those look (and act) exactly what we saw in TNG and the TOS films. I mostly say this since those shows are the only ones that has shown Klingons after we last saw them in Discovery. But I didn’t mind the look of them in season 2 of Discovery. Still slightly off but the hair certainly made up for it at least.
And I’m just happy if nothing else Worf looks like Worf again. If they go back to the Discovery look on SNW, I will suck it up since Worf at least looks like himself. That’s a fair compromise. ;)
True. You can probably imagine my sigh of relief when I saw the promo pic/video of Worf. Not only did he look like Worf, he looked fantastic!
If we do ever see Klingons in SNW maybe a good compromise would be to have a D7 where there are both TNG Klingons and DIS Klingons, reinforcing Kurtzman’s mentioning that there are different species of Klingons.
Yeah, the internet would’ve melted if Worf showed up bald with an elongated skull and four nostrils lol. To change an iconic character like that after 35 years would’ve been the wrong way to go in every way possible.
But I do agree with you, I think it would’ve been fine to have the Discovery Klingons as long as we saw the TNG era Klingons too, even if they were just in the background. That’s what really bothered people not just about the Klingons, but Discovery in general. They kept saying it’s in the prime universe and canon to everything that came before but then they completely ignored the look of everything that came before and the Klingons is probably the most recognized species in the franchise after the Vulcans. It’s fine to change things up but the mistake was pretending things that had been embedded in 28 seasons and 10 movies of Star Trek prior no longer existed at all.
And it goes to my other point I said in this thread, if Discovery wasn’t the first show out after not having a Trek show on for 12 years then maybe fans could’ve accepted it more. But people wanted the old universe back and as they remembered it since many have been watching since literally 1966 all the way through 2005. So to avoid the look and feel of 30 years of the prime universe completely was just tone deaf. But I think they got the message now. ;)
Honestly for me I would find it a tad refreshing if they didn’t use Klingons on SNW.
The ironic thing about that is that if they used Klingons instead of Gorn that entire storyline would have worked with just a tiny bit of tweaking without affecting any of the episodes. And I might have enjoyed it a little more, too.
It would be nice if they introduced other species we saw in the 24th century like the Cardasians, Breen, or any we don’t know when first contact was made to flesh them out more or even show how they became enemies instead of just more Klingons (but I do want to see on the show eventually).
Hell… The Breen are another example of an alien they could have used instead of the Gorn and it would have worked perfectly. They would have even been able to have the honor of designing what they look like under that helmet!
I’m hoping we will still see the Breen. If not on this show then Discovery or whatever show takes place after Picard. But SNW would be great because they can give them a real origin story since they only been on DS9 so far.
Yeah… And let’s be real. The Breen weren’t used because even with multiple mentions elsewhere and appearances on DS9 they still didn’t resonate like the one Gorn appearance did. Even though using them instead works far far far better than the Gorn did.
Why does Season 2 need to be bigger and crazier? This approach has gotten a lot of franchises into trouble.
That scares me too. Season 1 was almost perfect. Don’t mess with a winning formula. I mean maybe less time travel stuff next time but thats about it.
Exactly!
Someone should tell him outside of N American rigged TV ratings (which are meaningless to most ordinary people!) it’s pretty much DOA & the existing approach ain’t working at all!
Got Meth?
Wow..m the differences between this Interview and the matals Interview.
“Bigger, crazier, character, never befor”
Vs
“This Thing hast that feature, oh and this character from this Scene and do you remember that from this Show and the nacelles and the saucer oh and the Designer we hired is this Guy”
Yet we have not seen one single ep of Matalas’s Star Trek series. Talk is cheap until we ACTUALLY SEE one ep from Matalas.
Not true, he wrote the first two episodes of season 2, arguably the best two episodes of season 2 easily and the only two I really liked. I think he wrote the finale as well which was OK, but not great IMO.
Good God, I did not know that, but now I am especially worried. I didn’t find any eps of S2 to be very good.
Anyway, I am referring to S3 where he is showrunner and this is his season that he is leading…and that he keeps promoting like it’s the best Star Trek season in over 25 years…lol
I need to see some proof, not his never ending interviews where it all sounds so great.
We need to see it first before we can contrast it against SNW, which is what jako was doing here, which is not a fair comparison given we haven’t seen any S3 eps yet.
Wow you hate season 2 more than I did. I didn’t think that was possible lol.
About season 3, well we’ll know come February. Of course I want to believe everything Matalas is saying but I been burnt twice already on this show, including the season he already helped run. So yeah I want to be hopeful and I did love the trailer, but I loved ALL the Picard trailers!
But crossing my fingers. They are bringing back the entire TNG cast, those guys are like family to me and millions of other fans, I want next season to be amazing!
I did not contrasted Picard and SNW….
I contrasted the people getting interviewed and the way they spoke about the show.
That is not the same….
I Like SNW. And I don’t Like Picard season 2…
OK
I was Just talking about the Interview.
Matals is clearly on fire. Geeking out
Shows actual trekspertise. Can be a Bad Thing to do this Show without enough distance. Can be good, we will See.
Alfonso only presents standard Producer speech. Bigger, better, crazier
… Superlatives and no real insight.
However, except that stupid finalenI liked SNW quiet a lot.
I hear you, but again, talk is cheap. I want to actually see some eps to judge for myself.
Wasn’t he the show runner for season 2? I think we saw 10 Matalas run episodes.
Not entirely. He went Off for producing season 3 while Goldmann die season 2.
I’ve heard that story but I don’t know if I can buy it. His name was all over the credits all season long. And it just doesn’t make sense to leave a show for a future season of the same show.
He said he was in charge of the first half of the season but then left the rest up to Goldsman because he was prepping season 3 by then. Remember they shot both seasons back to back, the first time they ever done that for any show in Star Trek and he was the lone show runner for season 3.
Jesus, I missed that. This is really worrisome.
That doesn’t explain why he potentially abandoned S2. Shows have shot back to back before without shipping high level producers out of one season to work on the other. But either way his influence would still be on ALL episodes of S2. Which in my view was similar to STID in that the goal of the overall story was admirable but was executed in a very poor manner. Making S2 better than S1, IMHO. But not by a lot.
He didn’t ‘abandon’ it, it was clearly the plan from the start.Akiva Goldsman was also the show runner too, right? They just divided up the work like any job.
We agree the story was admirable, but the execution was awful.
Fair enough. If the plan was for him to work on S2 and later turn the majority of his attention to S3 it is still reasonable to conclude that he was still partially (if not substantially) responsible for S2. Which is why I am holding out no hope that S3 will be any better.
Can’t wait. Bring it. I love Lower Decks and Prodigy. I have a flicker of hope for Picard Season 3. But SNW is really what I am looking forward too next.
Why not 25 or 20 episodes per season ?
Because it’s on a streaming site and most streaming sites only produce 8-10 episode seasons now. It’s not the 90s anymore and when syndication was still a thing.
I miss the 25 episode seasons, too. One thing about the short season is by the time the next season comes around I’ve completely forgotten what happened in the previous cliffhanger. Part of that could very well be the overall lower quality of TV today. But it happened over long breaks of shows I enjoyed! Most notably, Hell on Wheels. Those breaks were so long I literally forgot the show was still on until new episodes appeared on my DVR!
Yes, AMC is notorious for those breaks, and it effectively kills the momentum of any show they feature. Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, The Walking Dead, Mad Men, Hell On Wheels. All great shows in their time, all chopped up and dragged out to the point where you literally forget about them. Shameful. Reminds me, I’m due for a binge re-watch of HOW…
I like SNW but i would still prefer the way they did with Enterprise on season 4. A story-arc over 2-3 episodes and a decent but subtle main plot for the season.
I liked that too but short seasons just aren’t conducive to that.
I have enjoyed SNW S1 though it is my least favorite of the current live action shows.
I do hope it goes on to at least 5-7 seasons and (Discovery which is my favorite of the current live action shows imo deserves to go to at least 7 seasons but i hope it will be the first Trek show to get to an 8th season).
I do hope SNW will have longer stories next season like someone else here said they should go the Enterprise S4 route and i would like it if they did a season that consists of 5 2-part stories or maybe even 3-4 part stories with a small number of standalone episodes.
Imo, season 1 of SNW was finally, after years of misfires by Secret Hideout, what modern live-action Trek needs to be. Canon aside, which I’ve effectively abandoned for the sake of just enjoying it, the show actually feels like the Star Trek I know and love. Hopefully season 2 will build on what season 1 started, looking forward to it. I have thin hopes season 3 of PIC will be great, but that show has let me down two seasons in a row, so no trust there. What a let-down. And DSC isn’t even something I consider watching anymore. Anyway, here’s to more adventures with Pike and crew!
Hey Danpaine I’m just really happy to see you enjoying a live action show again after all these seasons! :)
And yes I’m also crossing my fingers for Picard season 3 now and if I’m being very honest only because the entire TNG cast is back. If it wasn’t for that, I don’t think I would care at all about the show at this point after how dire I thought the first two seasons were. Obviously would watch but with no real expectations. Now I’m hoping they can really honor that cast and go out strong.
OK. Comments on the article.
When he says “what worked” it is, sadly, from his perspective as season 2 was written and shot before they got any audience feedback from S1. What he thinks “worked” I would think is probably different from what viewers thought did.
They really thought they did an emotional episode or two? I’m guessing they were referring to Hemmer but the fact is we never really knew the guy. So it was really hard to feel a lot for his personal sacrifice. They should have known that the death of a partial regular is just not the same as a regular. Further, in such a short time it’s hard for the audience to really get attached to any of the characters. Maybe if they had 20+ episodes under their belt and Hemmer appeared in most of them. 10 certainly doesn’t do it. You’d think they would have learned after what Star Trek Discovery did thinking that minor character’s death was significant to the audience. It wasn’t. On that note, I’m wondering what they thought were the comedic episodes. None of them really qualify. This Meyers dude seems completely out of touch.
Not really surprising he didn’t want to fix the major canon violation. That one is so huge it not only ruins the episodes where it is even mentioned but it bleeds over into other episodes that don’t even mention it!
When he says “I’m not saying more on that (the Gorn)” I’m hoping it means they realized it was a mistake and are dropping them completely. But somehow I’m doubting it. But he also said many episodes were character driven. There were a couple that had character moments but most really weren’t. I do like the comment about doing things that have never been done on Trek before. I like taking chances. Even if they don’t work at the very least they earn kudos for trying. The problem is this group doesn’t know how to do it. So they fail every single time they try something “new” or “different”.
I enjoyed Strange New Worlds S1 overall, but most of the characters came across as much less
intelligent or serious as I was hoping. I watch Discovery, Picard, and Strange New Worlds. The productions are outstanding, but most of the stories…I just keep hoping they will become so much derservingly better than so far.
I think that a legitimate gripe. This crew feels much less… Professional for lack of a better word than Kirk’s ship did.
100% agree with that.
While I loved the season overall I do agree the show felt a little too lightweight at times. But I think they were overcompensating because of all the criticism that Discovery and Picard were always too serious and heavy and trying to make a more fun show, which worked well IMO. But outside of the Gorn episodes it does feel like they are on cruise liner at times and a lot less serious than the previous crews.
“Lightweight,” is a very good word for it, Tiger.
Question. I haven’t checked out SNW yet:
Should I give SNW a try?
If you don’t care whatsoever about canon violations or decently written characters and still like Trek… Then SNW is for you. Do not expect anything close to TOS or even TNG/DS9 level stories, however. Keep your expectations extremely low, forget anything that happened on TOS and you will be fine.
Noted!
…I especially agree with ML31 as to canon. If you’re willing to suspend your expectations as to that, you’ll enjoy the show one heck of a lot more. Think of it as another timeline, alternate universe, whatever works for your ‘head-canon.’ Enjoy.
Definitely give SNW a try! It’s very different from PIC and DIS and actually pretty light like LDS is at times (but no super broad humor outside of one episode).
The biggest difference is that it’s episodic again like Lower Decks is so you can just watch any episode you want and not feel like it’s all tied together. That just frees up the show in so many ways and it’s not all weighted down by one story.
Like many shows have science and military advisors, Star Trek needs a canon advisor.
I don’t know if they are so arrogant they think they don’t need it or just don’t care. Maybe a little of both.
I’m pretty sure they have one. For Picard and Discovery, Kristen Beyer acted as the canon advisor. She may on this show too. And remember an advisor only ADVISES. They can still ignore it whenever they want.
I would be very interested to find out if anyone told them they couldn’t use the Gorn and were just ignored. And then I’d want to know who gave the order to ignore it. Everyone involved in OKing the use of the Gorn in any way on SNW should be fired.
Alex Kurtzman runs the franchise. Obviously he OK’ed it.