“No Win Scenario”
Star Trek: Picard Season 3, Episode 4 – Debuted Thursday, March 9, 2023
Written by Terry Matalas & Sean Trett
Directed by Jonathan Frakes
An excellent focused and emotionally charged episode tests the characters through the lens of some of Star Trek’s core themes.
WARNING: Spoilers below!
“We are bleeding to death.”
Before digging back into what appears to be the Titan’s last meal, we get an amuse-bouche flashback framer with Admiral Picard regaling the good old days to raptured cadets, dropping pearls of wisdom about how together a crew can handle any situation, no matter how bleak. Slam back to the now with a powerless USS Titan falling into a crushing gravity well, where this optimism is really being put to the test as the bridge crew explains to their pro tem captain—well, I believe the technical term is “totally f—ked.’ A resigned Riker finds his old captain to bury the hatchet as they trade apologies, with Will summing up with “This is the end my friend.” He tells Jean-Luc to spend the time he has left getting to know Jack as he reflects on the loss of his own son before leaving to try some way to leave a final message to Deanna. Brutal.
With Jack occupied, Seven is going solo on her investigation and finds the original Ensign Foster dead in his quarters. As the crew has enough to deal with, Captain Riker keeps her Changeling hunt off the books, so she turns to, of all people, Captain Shaw. Liam has totally checked out, but the two bury their own hatchet and he rallies to summarize the Memory Alpha page on the Founders as “Walking, talking clay-dough” and tells her to find the saboteur’s “resi-goo.” After locating fake Foster’s bucket, Seven never gets her chance to run the scans as a rando Vulcan attacks her, destroying his own receptacle before morphing into a wall to escape. Speaking of goo people, outside the anomaly we check in with Vadic as she slices a piece of herself off to do some creepy morphing FaceTime with some scary-looking guy who orders her back into the anomaly, making it clear she and the Shrike crew are “expendable.” All that matters is getting Jack. Bosses, am I right?
“Speaking of harrowing stories…”
Picard takes up Riker’s suggestion for some father and son bonding, choosing to do it over drinks in the holodeck’s 10 Forward recreation, as he continues to flash back to the real bar talking to the cadets about a “no win scenario” (episode title alert) with his old best friend Jack Crusher. With this holo bar acting as a coping “sanctuary,” more members of the crew trickle in to face their own demons. Jack is softening up a bit, but as he has spent his life as a loner, notes that this kind of bonding is not really his bag. Picard points to the crew connecting but he is also realizing he actually needs this little bit of family time himself as he wonders why Jack never wanted to know him before. After breaking the ice with some baldness levity and Jean-Luc’s endorsement of Beverly’s choice to name her son after her former dead husband (and his best friend), Jean-Luc and Jack swap space adventure stories. The elder recalls the time he and Jack’s namesake were stranded in a crippled shuttle as they spent “ten f—king grueling hours” improvising and “in sync” flying blind, barely making it back to the Stargazer. But it was for a booty call… so totally worth it.
Liam Shaw chooses this cute and touching (and obviously foreshadowing) moment to fly into the ointment. He hobbles up to the bar, a bit loopy on space meds, to interject his own story: the story of when he first met Picard… at Wolf 359. Oh, sh-t. Channeling his shark attack survivor inspiration, Shaw tells the tale of a young “grease monkey” engineer and as his ship headed to destruction at the hands of the Borg, he was one of only 10 chosen to go in the only escape pod left. Wracked with survivor’s guilt, he asks young Jack if he knows where his father was on that fateful day over three decades ago. The resentment that’s been simmering ever since Picard surprise-inspected his way onto Shaw’s ship finally boils over as he calls out: “Locutus of Borg, the only Borg so deadly they gave him a goddamn name.” Picard absorbs the verbal punch, says he understands, and sullenly leaves, with Jack chasing after him, leaving the rest of the crew slack-jawed over what just happened. Good thing they are all going to die, because it’s going to be hard to come back from this.
“Let’s do what we spent our entire lives learning to be great at.”
All this time Beverly has been in sickbay with her timer app running, sorting out intervals between the energy pulses coming from the center of the anomaly. It’s a pattern that she recognizes as a doctor: contractions. She grabs Jean-Luc and Jack and together they take this news to Captain Riker, who remains in an epic funk, skeptical of their plan to ride the final energy wave out after using it to power the engines. It all sounds farfetched as he considers the tiny amount of power they have left and wonders how they could possibly navigate past all those asteroids without proper sensors. With the ultimate responsibility of the crew he is being sensible, citing protocol, but Beverly eyes how he has been crafting a message to his wife and invokes Deanna’s name to say she would know this is a moment for them to trust in each other. The good doctor reminds Riker that he and they are like totally awesome and do six impossible things before breakfast on most days so this is no biggie. A spark lights up and Riker starts to see it, sorting out the logistics of drawing power in through the nacelles as he decides it is time to get the hell out of there. As Riker rallies the crew, Picard and Seven seek out Shaw as the only one who knows the ship enough to pull off the crazy plan… awkward after the whole Borg bar chat, but Jean-Luc calling him a “dipsh-t from Chicago” wins him over. Long story.
As the admiral has experience flying blind with just thrusters (remember the booty call?) he gets things started with a classic “engage,” working closely with Ensign La Forge. Seven and Shaw sort out the nacelles as “Sidney” also shows up there to help, falling into their obvious trap as they finally take down the Changeling saboteur. Picard goes for full callback symmetry, working with Jack to navigate their way through until Beverly’s predicted big bang hits and just when the ship was on its last breath, their entire world fills with life-giving energy. As they head out of the now-transforming anomaly, the Shrike blocks their path, but Riker is back in jazz mode as he makes his own callback, using the tractor beam to fling an asteroid at the bad guys, knocking them out of the fight (for now). This reprieve is highlighted with the beauty of hundreds of newborn baby space squid as the crew embraces each other with all this wonderment… But it’s bittersweet as Jean-Luc now remembers Jack was there with the fawning cadets years ago, when he told the young man alone at the bar that Starfleet was the only family he ever needed. As they warp home, Riker finally makes contact with Deanna, and she is happy to welcome him home. We end with Jack, snapping us back to the big picture as he is hit with another disturbing vision with a mysterious voice imploring “Together soon… Jack. Find me.” Oh boy.
“No Win Scenario” nicely wraps up a sort of two-parter, with director Jonathan Frakes at the top of his game directing both within this little submarine movie within the season. This time the vibe is less Hunt for Red October and Crimson Tide and more Das Boot with the desperate claustrophobia in full effect here, turning this bottle show into a character study. While some fans may want to jump back to the Worf/Raffi storyline, keeping things inside the gravity well emphasizes the pressure cooker within the Titan as each of our characters faces their fate in a different way. This fourth episode can also be seen as wrapping up what is sort of the first act of the season as it ties up a few character arcs all within the classic Star Trek themes of connection, cooperation, and crew as family. We can see the broken bonds forged (or reforged) across the board through Seven and Shaw and then Will and Deanna, but especially Jean-Luc Picard and his son Jack, with their story being the heart of this episode.
Beyond the submarine movies, there are many beats that evoke classic Trek moments from the films, like the hunt for the Changeling’s pail, mirroring the search for gravity boots in Star Trek VI, the joy of creation of new life at the end, and the creation of the Genesis Planet in Star Trek II. And of course, the “No Win Scenario” title is itself evocative of the famed Kobayashi Maru scenario from that classic movie. There were also elements on the bridge action that felt like classic Captain Picard from TNG episodes like “Booby Trap” or “Where Silence Has Lease.” It’s impossible to know the intent of the writers, but it all adds up to how this episode and season has all the Star Trek feels. At the same time, “No Win Scenario” is testing some key tenets, showing us some of our characters in true despair because keeping up that Star Trek hope is actually hard work. And while calling a crew your family may be a nice sentiment, there is also a special place for your real family, which Riker remembers and Jean-Luc is starting to finally understand. As for the space action, the show continues to come up with new stuff, like Riker flinging the asteroid at the Shrike, a memorable moment and of course poetic retribution for what Vadic did with the Eleos in episode two.
All of this works due to outstanding dialogue delivered by seasoned actors, with Jonathan Frakes, Patrick Stewart, and Ed Speleers as the standouts, although Todd Stashwick is worth highlighting for how he has made a self-described “a—hole” someone you just love to watch in every scene. And while we didn’t get much of her, it’s nice to see Marina Sirtis’ Troi as Riker’s true love and not the two-dimensional nag from her flashback intro in the previous episode. Hopefully, we will see her actually interacting with the rest of the cast in person soon, as a reunion with her old friend Beverly is long overdue. And what fan could not be thrilled seeing Riker, Beverly, and Picard remembering how together they can do the impossible, with all the actors falling back (and expanding) on their well-earned chemistry? The only note here is why did Picard have to essentially repeat Beverly’s rally argument to finally convince Riker? She already nailed it.
To make some of these emotional beats land, the show jumps through a few hoops or takes some shortcuts. Does it make sense for Jack to handle asteroid navigation while Seven, Shaw, and probably 200 more qualified people are around to do it? Does the handwave reasoning add up about keeping the holodeck running when they don’t have enough for even life support? Does the timeline on Jack’s age (and the actor’s age) make perfect sense? There are practical and story reasons for all of these things, but if you let things like bog you down, you may miss out on what may be the best Star Trek season in decades. As for why the Changeling’s bucket was an exact match to Odo’s, headcanon will have to fill in the blanks. Maybe Quark sells replicas at his many franchise locations.
Talk to the hand…
With Raffi and Worf off for the week, there is no follow-up to the M’Talas storyline short of Jack mentioning he had visited that “dump” before, which is a possible connecting clue as to his importance to the conspirators. The main plot momentum this week happened on the Shrike with our first glimpses into the inner workings of the bad guy network as Amanda Plummer starts adding a few welcome layers to her villainous Vadic. It does appear that Vadic is also a Changeling, although possibly some variation of one, and the jury is still out on her masked soldiers. Cutting off her hand to communicate was certainly different and weird, but that’s a good thing. There was no explanation (maybe it is extra secure or something?), but it sure added to the creepiness factor. The big news here is that Vadic has a boss, and it isn’t clear if he is also a Changeling. Credited as “The Face” (with hints of The Sovereign from Venture Bros. and a dash of Uka Uka from Crash Bandicoot) this character was certainly full of menace and emphasized how all roads lead to Jack.
Speaking of young Mr. Crusher, there may be a clue in the final scene with his vision. The shot of him at the sink splashing water before being hit with a disturbing vision was a match for the opening of Star Trek: First Contact and Picard’s nightmare of his Borg implants returning as he splashed at a sink. Like many choices on this show, this could simply be an homage, or it could be some clue to a Borg connection to the Vadic conspiracy. Another clue may be from Shaw’s callback to season 2 of Picard when he says “Forget all that weird shit on the Stargazer, the real Borg are still out there.” Then again, Vadic used a Reman “jackal knife” to cut off her hand, so is that a clue of Romulan or Reman involvement or just an Easter egg? With this season, it’s impossible to tell the clues from the callbacks, and that is actually keeping it fun.
“No Win Scenario” is a big win, providing a very satisfying end to the beginning of what is shaping up to be an epic season of Star Trek. Four episodes were enough to spend in the nebula and with these character connections reestablished, it’s now a welcome time to move on to the next phase, which will be bringing in some more familiar faces, like Geordi and the mysterious Lore. Can’t wait.
- Picard’s stories to the cadets referenced the classic episode “Darmok.”
- He also talked about facing down a Hirogen Alpha that made it into the Alpha Quadrant.
- The Hirogen were previously only seen on Star Trek: Voyager and the cadets asked if Picard sought advice from Admiral Janeway, so this adventure must have happened after the USS Voyager returned home and before Picard himself was promoted to admiral and left the Enterprise-E.
- Picard said he had help from Lt. Commander Worf, indicating this encounter may have happened before the events of Star Trek Nemesis, after which (at least according to the extended universe) Worf was promoted to first officer (and presumably full commander).
- Jack’s age was stated as 23 or 24, but as season 3 is set in 2401 (and Nemesis was 2379), he should probably be closer to 20 or 21.
- Young Picard and Jack Crusher (the first) visited “delightful and enthusiastic” young women on Argelius IV, a system first visited in the TOS episode “Wolf in the Fold.”
- Seven wasn’t up to speed on Changelings because she spent the entire Dominion War in the Delta Quadrant on the USS Voyager, so as of the time she joined the ship, The Borg had not yet given The Founders a species designation.
- When Shaw was briefing Seven on Changelings you could see an image of Odo’s original bucket (and a little picture of Odo himself) on his PADD.
- Seven was aware that “pot” was slang for cannabis, making this the first-ever direct mention of marijuana in Star Trek history.
- Shaw called Changelings “Clay-dough,” so does Play-Doh still exist in the 25th century?
- Shaw served on the USS Constance during the battle of Wolf 359, citing Stardate 44002.3, the same Stardate from Captain Riker’s log when he was in command of the USS Enterprise-D as the ship headed to Wolf 359 (“Best of Both Worlds, Part 2”).
- Foster’s (surprisingly spacious for an ensign) quarters included a Kal-toh.
- As Shaw recounts the events of TNG’s “Best of Both Worlds, Part 2,” audio from the episode can be heard including “I am Locutus of Borg.”
- When Beverly talks about how they have encountered space-based lifeforms before, Picard chimes in with the shorthand “Farpoint,” referencing the TNG series premiere “Encounter at Farpoint” which featured space vessel lifeforms.
- The space squid born in the anomaly had a passing resemblance to the “space jellyfish” from “Farpoint” (but are definitely different creatures).
- Fellow TrekMovie editor Laurie Ulster points out that the episode title is missing a hyphen and should be “No-Win Scenario.”
- This is the first episode where Sidney La Forge did not mention her famous father Geordi La Forge, however, the Changeling posing as her did.
More to come
We will discuss the episode in detail on Friday’s episode of All Access Star Trek. every Friday, the TrekMovie.com All Access Star Trek podcast covers the latest news in the Star Trek Universe. The podcast is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pocket Casts, Stitcher and is part of the TrekMovie Podcast Network.
Picard streams exclusively on Paramount+ in the Americas, Europe, the Caribbean and South Korea. It also streams internationally on Amazon Prime Video in more than 200 countries and territories. In Canada, it airs on Bell Media’s CTV Sci-Fi Channel and streams on Crave.
Keep up with news about the Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com.
Watching Picard, Riker and that crew put on a masterpiece performance in getting out of the nebula was about the most thrilling sequence in Star Trek in decades. It reminded me of the seamanship in MASTER AND COMMANDER- professionals with the grit and instinct to pull off a miracle escape. It was a nice touch to see Jack participate and feel a sense of belonging the way Jean-Luc had done throughout his life. So, while the father recognizes the insensitivity of what he said in the pub 5 years ago, the son conversely sees how Starfleet is a “family.” It’s just great writing, in my opinion, always showing perspective instead of having someone speak to it.
Riker feeling his old salty seadog self coming back was wonderful too. If there’s a theme to this season, it’s about healing from loss, and the many paths one takes to get there.
And the space jellyfish were a nice touch, reminds us there’s some actual wonders still worth exploring.
Very well said. I also liked how they reasoned out the solution to escape and executed it like cool-headed professionals. Also how they showed us why Jack didn’t want to see his father when he was younger. And they didn’t do that by overexposing and holding us by the hand. That was well done. That asteroid thrown on the Shrike was very cathartic, and I don’t know about everybody else but I did a “YES!” Data fist-thing when it hit. Now can somebody explain to me why the crew was standing around in the corridors looking at the bulkheads or loitering in the holodeck? Don’t these people have duties? I missed something there.
Just proves patience can pay off, instead of rushing to trash every element! As for the holodeck, i got the impression Riker encouraged the crew to indulge themselves, as he believed they were all headed to their doom (putting Picard’s comment about it being a sanctuary into context)
Never trashed anything, and I stand behind my previous posts.
I am referring to overall “jump-the-gun” sentiments where viewers have knee-jerk reactions to things and are unwilling to let them play out before casting harsh judgements and calling things “bad writing” before the story has unfolded. Not directed specifically at you (frankly I don’t keep track of who says what)
I think it’s understandable that we’d jump the gun considering how poor the writing typically is, especially on Picard. That a plot element that doesn’t make sense, initially, might be going somewhere that’s actually substantial has been pretty rare. So it’s tough not to get cynical.
But oh dear god does it feel good when things click into place in a satisfying way.
The whole thing with Seven/Hansen and Shaw, for instance, I didn’t think was anything more than just “character decorations” showing what a jerk Shaw was. But it not only had a decent use in the plot, but it resolved itself in a meaningful way that actually made Shaw AND Seven into better people.
Did not see that coming. And glad for it.
For me, the worst writing that I have seen associated with Picard lately are what I call The Riker Theories.
Ok, but it’s easy for you to complain about people “jumping-the-gun” when you saw the first 6 eps. For the vast majority who haven’t, it’s not jumping-the-gun it’s calling it the way we see it.
It’s also easy for me to not jump the gun because that’s not how I operate. I wait to see how things play out, i’m not that impatient and eager to hate a TV show that’s aired a fraction of a single story.
If it’s that bad early on, I just stop watching and stop thinking about it.
EDIT: for example: I think even through episode 6, I have some (potentially serious) concerns. But i’m more than willing to wait until I’ve seen all 10 to make a judgement, given how good the first 6 are.
If you think commenting on something that bothers you is being eager to hate that’s on you. And the point is you don’t need to wait until things play out, you saw the 6 episodes!
You constantly have your fussy fits every time someone posts something negative. Stay in your lane.
“Stay in your line!” and “Don’t have a fussy fit” in the same sentence. lol.
The asteroid thing just felt lifted from GALAXY QUEST’s use of mines, but I liked it all anyway.
It did occur to me driving home to wonder just how old Beverly was when she had this kid? 55? 60? Picard would have been 80, right? Is menopause like money, a thing of the past?
kmart, I’m going with the regression from Insurrection giving both Crusher and Picard some extra years.
Wow, that is a very clever answer, and a possibility that never occurred to me, thanks.
Kinda makes me wonder though if ‘boob perking’ is what triggered them to later get together.
i think jack’s origins and conception may be a plot point later on. ergo why he’s having visions. i think there may be more to beverly and her 20 year absence
but i agree crusher’s age is a stretch, but then again its the 24th century, a quick google search showed that in 21st century the oldest woman to give birth was 66…..so medicine technobabble explanation
All non-essential activities were shut down and crew were told to gather in common areas.
It would be nice if there were more sets for common areas, or even engineering, but there it is.
Corridors would qualify, as does sickbay. Can’t figure out why people are standing instead of sitting and using less oxygen, but there it is.
Even Shaw, injured and under the influence of pain meds, had to find a common area.
The excuse that the Holodeck has its own, discrete, firewalled power source and computer makes sense after all mishaps in TNG. It’s also likely a point that will be important once Moriarty comes into play.
Yes thank you, I remember now Riker issuing that order. People in the corridors still doesn’t look right though. Reminds me of those TOS episodes where you had the crew doing the shimmy dance in the corridors when the Enterprise was in battle or something… Who knows, maybe it was meant as an Easter egg!
so a starship has several differant duty shifts, 3 or 4 useally. one of these shfits is on duty at any given time, one of these shifts is sleeping and the last shift has time off. so those people where proably coming off their duty shift.
“always showing perspective instead of having someone speak to it.”
The difference between season 3 of PIC, and almost all of DSC, in a nutshell! 😏🥜
Had the latter show’s writers heeded that rule, or been blessed with the talent necessary to pull it off, maybe the show would’ve lasted a bit longer?
I’ve been wondering, how exactly did Terry Matalas get this gig as showrunner? He’s just perfect in the role, particularly taking something that people love, and carrying it forward in very compelling ways. I’m hoping for many more chances for him following this season. I’ve just been loving every second of it so far! 🖖😍
I would love to hear the story, but if I had to guess, he approached them about it, and was given the job on the strength of 12 Monkeys.
Going by how he appears to enjoy sharing on social media alone, I hope that he will tell it one day!
I don’t know if there are any plans for it, but there’s still enough left untold for a second season of the Gates McFadden narrated docu-series “The Center Seat”… might be a good place to tell. 🤞🙂
I assume Matalas’ working on Voyager and Enterprise and writing some Star Trek comics also helped in getting the job.
Yes, Trekmovie did an interview with Matalas in one of their podcasts a few months ago and Tony Pascale did ask this question to Matalas, and I think that’s pretty much what he said.
Did you just copy paste the top comment from the episode discussion at r/startrek?
Yes, it was my comment 🥸
Dig the Master and Commander comparison. What a masterful (ahem) series of books, and a shame they never did a second installment of the film. TGBG was obsessed with the idea of “Horatio Hornblower in space”—I think Aubrey and Maturin in space would be far more interesting.
So many fine touches this ep that make it my favorite of the 6. From Seven’s scenes with Shaw, to the way Seven used LaForge’s respect of her chosen name to ferret out the Changeling, to even tiny stuff like LaForge and Mura spouting technobabble during the escape. Even the music during the escape was *chef’s kiss*
I loved the problem solving, the way Crusher deduced what was happening (her scene in the corridor felt very much like her scenes in Cause&Effect for some reason, but maybe it was just her use of a specific phrase)… to the absolutely heart-shattering realization of why Jack never pursued a relationship with his father.
It’s not perfect — I felt the scenes in the holodeck dragged a little, but they were crucial to setting up multiple plot points — and once again, my biggest gripe this season is Stewart himself: fans have often complained that he acts too much like himself and not enough like Picard. That wasn’t a problem for me in S1-2, because he was more a civilian, and had mellowed in his old age. But aboard a starfleet ship, in his official capacity as an Admiral, his sense of protocol and duty should kick in. It’s a minor thing, but worth noting. Easily overlooked though, because the writing is strong.
It was a good episode but i felt it had some pacing problems and i do find this season to be suffering a little from how S2 was written. With the episodes feeling they are being stretched out to fill the 10 episode season. (i enjoyed S2 it was a good season but not without it’s faults but then again no Trek show is perfect).
I liked the scene in the holodeck between Picard and Jack it was nice seeing him trying to get to know his son though Jack didn’t seem to be interested in getting to know him.
Shaw being at wolf 359 was obvious with his attitude toward Picard had something to do with that event and having survivors guilt.
Though i find them having the holodecks still being powered while the rest of the ship is in trouble a example of bad writing imo.
Yes i know it had a independent power source but still if the ship needs all the power to survive why not remove the power source and hook it up to the ship. Any kind of power source no matter how small could give the crew some extra time to come up with a survival plan.
7 finding the changeling pot was a bit quick imo and it was not well hidden which i find a bit strange and the scene with Vadic cutting off her hand and talking to what looked like a floating skull was the most bizarre thing i have seen in Trek.
It reminded me of the Q summoning bottle scene from S2 lol.
So the nebula ended up actually being a life-form about to give birth i like when Trek shows lifeforms that live in space.
The bickering between Picard and Riker again was very unlike them imo but again these are not the same people that we saw in TNG/Films as people change through the years and i liked the speech that Riker gave to the crew.
Picard taking the con was a cool scene and great to see again.
Seeing the titan riding the wave and then throwing an asteroid at vadic/her ship was great lol. Giving Vadic a taste of her own medicine.
Though i wished her and her ship blew up and we were rid of the threat from her but i know from the trailers that we will see her again. I’m just tired of her chasing after them.
That ending with Jack felt like a scene straight out of the 12 monkeys tv show and to be honest i didn’t feel like something that belongs in Star Trek but maybe whatever is going on with him will change my mind on that we will see.
“Vadic cutting off her hand and talking to what looked like a floating skull was the most bizarre thing i have seen in Trek.”
Gives the dismissive phrase “Talk to the hand!” a whole new meaning. ✋️😜
lol. I actually thought the holodeck was an example of GOOD writing. They wanted that scene there, because it’s a lot more interesting than just having them sit in their quarters.
But in the past, they’d have just done it with no explanation. I appreciated that they threw in a line about its independent power cell and its purpose. It doesn’t have to make 100% logical, real-world sense. It only needs to make “sci-fi” sense, and it does.
What frustrates me most about TV/movie writing is when a plot hole like that can be easily papered over with a single, brief line of dialogue, but they don’t even make the effort.
Exactly what I thought! It was a good, preemptive move on Matalas & Trett’s part to throw in that line — in comparison to most of the previous seasons’ writers, they appear to know their audience well. 😉
To me, it seemed like a nod to Voyager, which also needed to save energy (they even had Neelix cook for the crew to spare replicator power) but had no problem running the holodeck.
at least it has history. Remember Geordie kept running simulations in the holodeck while the rest of the ship was out of power in “Booby Trap”.
Yeah. That hand thing was new and weird. In a good way. I’m actually a bit curious about what the heck is going on there.
I wondered if the cutting hand thing could be related to the Pah Wraiths since Gul Dukat had to put blood on one of the books he used to read about them.
Yeah, not sure why everyone was so bowled over by this episode. I thought it was fine. This season still feels like a drawn out TNG movie, which I never was a big fan of. Too much action, not at all reminiscent of the series I adored so much.
I guess my main issue though is I still prefer episodic storytelling; glad SNW has chosen that route.
I need to give it a rewatch.
It dragged for me in a few spots. I however am at the point that I’m tired of Picard.
At least, I am done with all the things Patrick Stewart has insisted be the focus for the character to make Picard interesting for him to play. I was very much on board with Picard working through his past in season one, but three seasons of Picard acting like a self-absorbed arrogant old guy while working through stuff is wearing.
The thing is, I really don’t care about his relationship with Jack. Spleleers is a fantastic actor but he’s still not selling me on the role.
I particularly don’t like how Jack repeatedly is given the opportunity to solve problems that the Titan’s officers should have been working on, just because he’s Picard’s son and main cast. It’s a kind of character nepotism, and it’s making him into a Mary Sue.
I really hope he’s not a significant character going forward.
Riker and Shaw dealing with their stuff is refreshing by contrast. It’s certainly what is holding more of my interest. As is Seven being her awesome self in the 2-4 episodes, and in a way that feels like it has more continuity with who she was in Voyager than anything we saw in the past two seasons.
Forced to agree that the Riker Shaw thing is probably the most interesting dynamic thus far. I, too, have zero interest in Picard & Crusher’s son. Likely because I never thought either character was all that interesting to begin with. Stewart back in the TNG days and even into the features had a charisma that made him watchable. But at this point in his life it is all but gone. We saw a bit of it earlier but it faded fast. The 7 of 9 character was interesting back on Voyager. But at that time she was obviously on a journey. At this point she seems firmly to have arrived and has nothing new to add. If there were some sort of new journey for her she would become interesting again. But at this point she seems to be little more than just a LaForge or Chekov.
With Seven and Raffaela (> Raffi), I suspect that we are watching a step-back & reset for the characters so that they can restart their respective journeys.
I see more of the old Seven and yet some of the tough stuff that she would have acquired since Voyager. Someone read the character bible for Raff and is rebooting from season one ‘Go.’
It seems like they may both move forward in an interesting way.
We just need to have a show where Picard isn’t the title character sucking up all the oxygen.
(Yup, as Tiger2 says, I’m really down on Patrick Stewart now. He is a talented actor, but remain convinced that all the things that made Picard a great leader are things he found boring. And the things he finds into do with the character, I don’t find interesting.)
I actually prefer episodic story telling also. But in regards that this is the finale of tng I find that a “topic of the week” episodic story telling wouldn’t have worked for that.
I like the mini arcs and occasional stand alone episodes that we saw in Enterprise S4 and occasionally in DS9.
I find that both episodic and season long serialization force to many constraints on stories.
Wow!! Just… wow!! So great!
Although I did find myself distracted by some of the creakiness in the pacing and plot details, the character writing is once again outstanding. For me the standout really was Captain Shaw who I just adore, you can tell Terry loves to write for this guy. I have to call out that tense scene with the LaForge Changeling and the clever way Seven exposed her, love that sort of character payoff. All 4 of these episodes have felt written like one movie, everything is paying off in subtle and big ways. I’m not quite sure I get why Shaw is blaming Picard for his trauma at Wolf359. I can kind of understand it with Sisko because he lost his Wife, but shouldn’t most people appreciate that he was forced to be Locutus? I’m also a little perplexed by Vadiic’s persona, at times she looks like she’s putting on a performance, other times she’s joyless like she’s doing a job. And now we see she is doing the bidding of a greater threat which continues to build the mystery in interesting ways, but you can also see where this is heading with Vadiic. Quite a bit of Vadiic’s actions haven’t made much sense. Why sink the Titan if her mission was to capture Jack? And when ordered to go back in and get him, all they do is wait on the edge of the Nebula for them to miraculously return. So again, great character writing between the action scenes, but I’m worried the plot writing is going to be a weak point.
Perhaps the most powerful scene in the episode however is when Picard tells Jack that the only family he ever needed was Starfleet. Damn that was great and heartbreaking, even if I wad distracted by the silliness of a 25th century black ball cap on a 30-something actor who is suppose to be about 18.
As for the Holodeck power, Voyager did use this silly explanation as well for why they didn’t shut it down to conserve power, so it’s both a contrivance and a callback!
I think Shaw’s anger boiling over is logically chartable if you look at the sequence of events:
Unprofessional, sure, but totally understandable.
One thing that few seem to take into account is that even trauma that’s well processed and managed, is never completely healed.
There are still triggers, and Picard is a walking talking trigger for Shaw. I respect Picard for accepting that even if I find he’s been an the arrogant £#*% that he’s been accused of being since season one.
True. Trauma can reprogram the brain, and when triggering events occur, the brain can’t tell the difference between the original and new event. I also liked the way Picard just said “I understand” to Shaw’s reaction and just walked away. I just wish people’s natural inclination was to try to understand other people’s motivations and points of view instead of blindly judging and reacting. Wouldn’t that put the World in a better place today?
Personally I hate the writing style of having everything paying off, especially when it’s done in the same episode. It feels too formulaic and predictable. I miss the small character moments in TNG that didn’t have to go anywhere and just rounded out the characters.
Set-ups and payoffs are screenwriting 101, the definition of good writing. Of course, good writing is subjective. If you like random moments that amount to nothing, that’s cool I guess.
Yeah, I’m aware of that being taught but I guess I just find tv and movies these days too predictable and obvious because of it. What I would prefer is that 3-4 things are mentioned and then it is not known which will pay off. The other mentioned points can come up at later points or be left for fans to speculate on and expand themselves.
Setting up and paying off everything in the same episode actually screams lazy writing to me, like the writers decided they wanted the show to end a certain way and so threw in some references at the start to make it seem like it made sense. They didn’t take the time to establish character points in previous episodes or think of fully rounded characters that might reference anything outside of what is strictly needed for the plot.
To be clear, I’m not talking about lazy filler where nothing happens, but things that are still entertaining and enrich the show.
A great example of what I mean is in TOS with Kirk mentioning in a throwaway line to Spock that Spock should teach Kirk how to do the Vulcan nerve pinch. In another episode, Kirk mentions in another throwaway line that the teaching didn’t work. It had nothing to do with the plot either time but enriches the bond between the characters. TNG has many of these character moments too, many of which involved Data, which made him a fan favourite.
I’m not religious, but if you read the bible, there are a lot throwaway lines in it that have been expanded upon and given multiple different interpretations and that is what makes it such a rich and thought provoking text, even to an atheist like me thousands of years later. I doubt anyone would say the bible is bad writing, even if they might not agree with the text.
except plenty of people nitpick the bible, it’s full of contridictions, if the bible was a modern day TV show the internet would blast it for being riddled with errors :)
There’s parallelism and interpolation, but the bible follows it’s own logic pretty consistently (assuming you consider the old/new testaments to be different works). That wasn’t what I was talking about though.
What bugs me more is when characters like Jack Crusher, just because they are higher up the call sheet, are given problem-solving hero moments, again and again, at the expense of the characters that naturally should be having be acting in those situations.
I was fine in episode three when Shaw asked Crusher to find out how his ship was being followed because Shaw was in sickbay and Jack was at hand, and because Shaw would not be the one to do anything to divert his officers’ attention once he’d handed off command to Riker.
This 4th episode thought it was just egregious.
In TOS, and the Berman era, the senior officer complement had specific competences and roles, so it made sense when they put forward ideas and took specific actions. And because these were well understood by the audience and respected by the writers, it had dramatic impact when they had to stretch.
This just feels like CW schtick.
Most of the guys here hated it in Discovery when Tilly or Burnham inexplicably got all the moments regardless of their seniority or specializations. But Jack Crusher is set up at the expense of other characters and “Crickets.”
Did flinging the asteroid remind anyone else of Galaxy Quest’s tractoring mines from the minefield to defeat their enemy at the end?
I bet General Grin is editing a mash-up as speak.
Guy is a genius
Yes. But shoot, Bond started stealing from Austin Powers circa SPECTRE, so I guess turnabout is fair play.
The Jack / Picard revelation is real…I guess. But also unfair to Picard because he only said that because Crusher lied and hid important information from him. If Picard said that **knowing** he had a son out there, then sure. But to Picard, he’s alone. He has no family. If Jack wants to be mad at someone, he should be mad at Beverly for putting that wedge between him and his father.
You’re right it is unfair to Picard. And that’s what makes it so compelling and heartbreaking.
In some fairness to S1/S2 of Picard, the Picard of five years prior would probably not have been as well-equipped to handle the fact that he had a son, or realize that he could have wanted an actual family. He would’ve dealt with the news, but I’m not sure he would been in the state to have admitted to Jack that he was the one who wanted connection.
I am not sure that Picard would have not wanted Jack any less or more because of S1/S2. We know that Picard has regrets about his never having a wife and children, because what was it exactly he dreamt of in the Nexus? A wife and a bunch of kids, and his nephew.
What he said in the bar to 17/18 year old Jack – what else would he say to a bunch of people idolizing him for his career and his stories?
Yes, Picard has been on a journey to connect with people- after his near death experience and then later losing Jack, he has been overly guarded about getting close most of his life. Now we also know that his father was awful and his mother was crazy. That adds to it.
If Jameson’s still exists in 2401, then why not Play Doh?
Vadic’s deferential behavior in the presence of her boss struck me as the way a Vorta would act. Did she cut off her hand or just the glove?
Resigoo is among the best use of technobabble ever.
Just a few thoughts.
I was remembering what the female Changeling said to Odo about the beings in the Great Link–The drop becomes the ocean, and the ocean becomes a drop. Once Odo became fully integrated with the Great Link he ceased to be a distinctive entity.
Nothing dictates that a changeling form would be 100% one “entity”. It could very well be that Vadic (if she was indeed a Changeling) could be 90% her own, and the 10% that was “the face” was a composite of the breakaway collective.
Though, that also introduces questions about the whole Changelings do not harm one another thing…
Changelings never harmed each other BEFORE. It doesn’t mean they can’t, as Odo proved. The schism seems to me to illustrate that they are very different now.
I am somewhat curious why, if Vadic is a changeling, she would need to maintain human form when not interacting with other humans. Suggests the possibility that something more might be going on…
I still think Vadic is a Vorta, a Vorta hybrid, or at least based on the Vorta psychology, and she not changeling.
I think the hand is her boss, and her link to the not-so-great breakaway link. That is a Changeling, or a portion of one. Perhaps one that either by the virus, or damage, is unable to fully form into.a standalone being now, that needs a host, just as Dax does. By disguising itself Vadic’s hand, it can be there to command her…. And to lend her a hand.
I can see Vadic being a surgically altered Vorta with a changeling grafted as her left hand.
It’s weird, and has a dimension of horror, but the way the Dominion creating and used the Vorta was always appalling. This just makes it more visceral.
Matalas has confirmed on Twitter that Vadic is a changeling, as are her “gang.” The hand is not a special changeling.
Saw that to, thanks.
Not sure why he’s feeling the need to squelch fan theories though.
It’s a lot of the fun, and we’ll find out soon enough.
If I had to guess it’s because it’s fairly clear from episode 4 that Vadic is a changeling (at least it was to me), yet apparently not as clear for everyone, and I suppose not as clear as he’d intended.
He wants us theorizing, but not about THAT. As he suggested in the twitter thread, there’s definitely something different about Vadic that she cut off her hand rather than just release it, for example, and THAT’S what he probably wants the audience thinking about.
So from that perspective, I can understand him squelching it a bit. “Stop looking over there, there’s nothing there. Look over here.”
Not enough Beverly. And yet… also: why does it take Beverly to figure out what the anomaly does? If the Titan is not filled with weapons, and it’s crew can’t figure out how nacelles work, and there is no science team trying to understand the nebula… I liked it but I would have cared even more if the crew stayed at their stations in a very low power mode and actually did work collectively. They showed no desperation.
The problem the crew faces here is similar to the real world problem of getting the astronauts home during the Apollo 13 mission. That’s my go-to for a comparison. Anyone can read about it, watch films and documentaries. NASA and every available engineer worked on a solution.
In the case of this episode, collectively trying to find a solution wouldn’t have cost a penny more and would have amped up the drama and connected to the theme they kept iterating about how Starfleet is” home.” It also could have given a Changeling something really weird to do.
First of all, it’s said IN DIALOG that science labs are shut down to conserve power. Second, this is a TV SHOW, not Nasa. You want your major plot beats, turning points, and revelations to be made by your series regulars, not by random characters off-screen.
Third, fans have rightly complained for decades that Dr. Crusher was never given anything meaningful to do, and now you want to give her scenes to an unnamed Lieutenant?
Shutting down science in a weird nebula is a huge tactical mistake.
No, what I would have done differently – and what I thought was promised by the return of these characters: I want Beverly to lead a discussion and analysis with crew members and bring it to Picard and Riker. That is what we were promised, in a sense, about this reunion. Instead she held an iPad. There was no drama in her discovery. No focus on her at all. Plus, they have an excellent actress, the bald Vulcan. Why is she not Spocking it up with Beverly? Why are they not in dialogue?
Meanwhile, they took a lot of time for Riker to only attempt to record a goodbye message. He should have been like, “Sorry I fd up, maybe you won’t need this message.” And get back to solving the problem.
Yes, it was a tactical mistake. That was the point. Riker’s personal crisis was affecting his command decisions.
They had Crusher go to Picard because they are the main characters.
Yes, they took a lot of time for Riker’s message. Because this is a TV drama.
Sounds like you’re watching the wrong show.
I am just remarking about what the show promised, and how to make the drama better. Maybe you’re watching the wrong show!
Nope, I think it’s just fine. I think it’s fine to critique, but disrespectful to think I know better. End of the day, it’s not perfect, but nothing ever is.
Well, except The Wire.
However, your response to Tiberius Mudd indicates you think almost exactly the same thing. You noticed how Beverly was slighted. But you’re not willing… to what? Go a little further and show an alternative which would actually improve the scene? Even though you acknowledge there is a subtle misogyny in the writing?
I can’t remember how you claim to have seen 6 episodes, or why you feel the need to let us know. But the thing is – as a lifelong fan (and a creator myself), knowing that these episodes have been in the can for a year, which means there is 2-3 years of development behind each moment. What we see is already the final word. I don’t think I’m being disrespectful at all – this is a forum.
What’s a little disrespectful, actually, is how you are on top of each and every comment on this site using a very, clear authoritative voice as if these are not your opinions but “facts about the show.”
Why keep ending each argument you don’t like with “this is TV.”? Especially when you laud The Wire? That is the quality we are expecting. And it doesn’t cost an extra dime.
You really expect every TV show to be as good as the Wire? Good %$^&*ing god.
Yes, I do see flaws. But none of them are worth being annoyed with. These are mostly minor nitpicks, and it’s not worth being disrespectful to the filmmakers to pretend I know better.
For example, I have no idea what other issues they face. Some of these “flaws” could be down to a last minute rewrite due to a scene that needed to be cut for time. Or something they noticed in editing and the best they could do was toss in some ADR.
End of the day, if the show is good — and this is — I think picking apart a show like that is a waste of time, and frankly, takes away from other more important stuff that we could be discussing. I’ve already wasted too much brainpower on this.
The inciting incident of this entire season is the call from Beverly.
But based on these four episodes we actually don’t really know much about her state of mind, say, the same way we get more from Seven, or Shaw. And we certainly don’t see Beverly’s agency.
That is a noticeable aspect of the writing of this season – flaw or maybe not a flaw.
I am rooting for this show, I wake up 4AM to watch it! I was hoping that if this really is the “the next” Next generation, what we would see both generations working together. Maybe that will happen, but in this most dire of circumstances with a lot of opportunity what we saw a lot of speeches, self-eulogies, memories and as someone here remarked, in a “Hallmark” style.
You’re absolutely right, and that was one of my first nitpicks, which I commented on after the first episode. It did bug me somewhat that Beverly lacked agency, calling for Picard for help as a damsel in distress, when you could have had her enter the picture in any number of ways.
But considering it was a well-done episode, I wasn’t willing to throw it under the bus. A great show can still have flaws. No show is ever going to be The Wire.
Yes, the show, and the advance hype, particularly stressed that the Titan crew would be people we would know.
We heard that they wouldn’t be like the Discovery’s bridge crew whose names many people can’t remember.
Instead we’ve got Jack Crusher running round coming up with all the solutions because he’s Picard’s son, while the entire complement of an explorer ship can’t solve a scientific and engineering puzzle on their own.
What I wouldn’t give for B’lanna Torres on this ship!
Yep, if this were a real space ship and not a ship on a TV show about very specific characters,
I mean, I appreciate that Star Trek tends to be more “realistic” but it’s never been “real life.” Some people need to get a grip.
I don’t think they had a choice about the science section. They were out of power.
They even shut down the ‘Life Deck’ which is the emergency shelter.
I found that the solution all being ‘team-family Crusher-Picard’ too contrived.
And that took me out of it.
The blind misogyny of having the men restating Beverly’s findings was clearly intended to show the team-family working together. Both the writers and actors were working hard to sell the moment.
Instead, I was wishing Jack’s role had been minimized, and especially was wishing he was not given such prominence in the bridge scenes following.
The marginalization of the bridge crew started in the meeting room and just carried on.
I can see Crusher and Picard bringing something to Riker as captain, but after that Riker should have been shown harnessing the resources of the ship.
Instead he was just adding his own personal fillip to Picard’s plan, with Shaw tasked to implement it.
I’m really feeling it’s past time for Picard and Riker to give Shaw and Seven their ship back.
Yeah, I thought the same thing. So the nacelle control or whatever it was is old. They for SURE would have people on the crew who knew how to deal with it.
That’s a legitimate complaint but for story purposes they needed to have known characters down there doing it. Not some crewmen the audience has never met yet.
It’s also their first mission in this new ship. It’s possible that the system in question is not something that’s ever really accessed, and there would normally have been time for them to learn.
Rewatching this scene, Seven says specifically that “engineers can’t leave their posts” which implies that the crew DO know the inner workings of the older engines, but weren’t available.
This means they would have had to rely on the lower deckers and/or the cadets on the ship, who don’t know the inner workings of the older engines. This scene makes perfect sense.
Don’t even bother engaging with you-know-who. At this point I think it’s just Kurtzman’s assistant posing as a fan. Probably throws him a few extra bucks from his heaping money pile.
Don’t go down that rabbit hole.
Some folks are just campaigners. Alpha Predator has been pretty negative other times, but he’s decided his contrariness is going in the booster direction this season.
Pretty good overall.
I didn’t much care for some of the dialogue, though. Shaw sometimes sounds like a 21st century divorced dad trying to hang with the college kids, but I did like his all-business engineering and finally coming to respect Commander Seven. That was nice. And Jeri Ryan is excellent, as always.
The speechifying about hope and family continues to drag things a little too far into Hallmark territory for my liking (consistent for this series, I’ll give it that). The escape from the jellyfish nursery, however, was glorious. That’s the sort of callback to TNG I appreciate.
Looking forward to finding out what’s going on with Jack and Vadic.
Maybe I was looking for it, so I transposed his face, but the motion capture performance of Vadic’s boss really seemed like it was Brent Spiner as Lore who was giving her orders, perhaps posing as The Great Link.
“some fans may want to jump back to the Worf/Raffi storyline”
LOL. No. I don’t think most fans would prefer to jump back to Rafi.
I actually didn’t even realize they weren’t in it until the end…
But I’ll never hate seeing Worf in anything. The issue I have with his and Raffi’s side of the story, so far, is that they’re mainly repeating what we’re learning on the Picard side of things: portal weapon, Changelings. I expect that will change going forward, however. I hope it will.
I think the Worf/Raffi story is compelling, but the way it was intercut with the main storyline was a bit irritating. It might’ve worked as a standalone episode between the “acts” or after a significant part of the nebula story was over for the episode. I saw the preview for the next episode with the martial arts training and I’m liking it. I just didn’t want to pull away from the Picard/Riker/Beverly/Jack/Seven/Shaw story.
Not all fans dislike Raffi. Her storyline actually rocks this season
I actually like Raffi.
lol Raffi and Worf’s storyline is the main part that I actually like.
I think the episode storyline was so strong, even though I really like the Raffi/Worf story, I did not miss it at all and was happy the episode focus was on the Titan.
SPOILER Glad that the E5 preview that was on last night’s Ready Room, brought back Worf and Raffi.
I have to say the final scenes where it was revealed Jack had tried to reach out to Picard were devastating.
Now, since I’m already rewatching, it’s interesting to know Picard told him the story of the shuttle and not his mom.
Picard to group of cadets:
“Leave me alone, I have a haddock.”
That must be one cold plate of fish. Kids, let the man eat already!
Anthony, thanks for pointing out the bit about Picard repeating what Beverly had just said. Each episode has featured something sexist against women and I’d like to think it’s some sort of unconscious thing by Matalas & Co.(which doesn’t make it better of course) rather than outright misogyny (I still think about the TV show House, which wore its misogyny on its sleeve). Anyway, I guess some savvy people have coined the term “hepeating” for this phenomenon. I’m sure TV writers and their defenders would argue “It’s Picard’s show, he has to say the most inspiring thing,” but I don’t think that defense in this case would hold water.
I caught this too. My gut says this was a last minute re-write because they felt the moment needed to give Riker one more push, because his heel-turn on the decision might have been otherwise too quick and flippant.
I do agree that it undercuts Crusher, which is a shame, and an ACTUAL example of poor writing. I agree they probably didn’t realize it was somewhat sexist thing to do. It wouldn’t have been hard for Picard to chime in with a different point.
I think you’re right. TV always runs into the risk of overwriting and there’s a huge conflict with trying to make these shows have the scope of a movie but none of the subtleties in the form. After Beverly’s lines, the rest of that moment could’ve been conveyed by looks. Riker could’ve looked to Picard who gives him a reassuring smile. Riker steps out onto the bridge, looks to the faces of his worried bridge crew, and we see the resolve form on his face.
It’s just probably not something TV writers think to do and it’s also probably not something the people funding the show would be comfortable with anyway. There’s probably heaps of market research proving that if there’s no talking, most of the audience stops paying attention.
There are better ways they could have played it, for sure. I have a few ideas of my own. End of the day though, it’s a minor nitpick, and not worth dwelling on.
You’re probably spot-on about market research, too.
I’m seeing interviews with Ed Speleers following this episode where he’s basically saying that a show with him in the lead is one of the possibilities.
Just dropping in here to say that I have no interest in a Crusher-Picard son of Picard series.
If that’s why they felt they had to cast an established 34 (looking like a boyish 40) year old as 20-ish, they aren’t convincing me.
I would much rather see the Shaw and Seven Star Trek: Titan show with the legacy characters stopping in.
Why would anyone think that a Star Trek inherited privilege series – populated by children of previous heroes – is in line with the aspirational meritocracy, the better society that so attracts fans?
I hate the nepo-baby terminology flying around, but this just seems like some senior people in suits are completely misreading the franchise.
And as a last thought…
What a waste! Speleers would have made a brilliant young James Kirk. He’s the guy I could have seen carrying the TOS era forward from SNW.
They’ve convinced plenty of others though. I’d definitely watch a Jack Crusher show, he’s great.
Just because Terry Matalas keeps saying everyone forgets the actor is 15 years older than the role, doesn’t mean that people by it.
It may be believable or flattering for mid 30s or older people (like me) but the show needs to attract a wide demographic, including younger fans.
Would this be a show set in 2415 or 2025 to advance in time to put him in a leadership role on a starship?
I think most of us want to carry on from 2401-02.
I don’t see Speleers in a lead role as a cadet in an Academy show. That might be the executives idea to finally save that idea from development hell, but I can’t imagine who would watch.
My kids (all teens) would in no way identify with him as a cadet.
Last thought, Matalas (who I otherwise respect) has been super concerned to ensure visual and production design continuity because he understands that the discontinuities have been a barrier for many fans.
So why would he be resistant to feedback that this casting choice is a barrier to many of us?
This is just one of those, wink and accept it things. If you can’t I’m sorry, but if that’s your barrier for enjoyment, oof, that’s sad.
This is exactly the kind of thing many people (including me) said to the people who can’t get past some of the visual reboots in Discovery.
The questions of how many current fans would it be a barrier to, and how many potential fans (college age, tweens and teens) would it put off.
If the show is intended to reach a certain target demographic, but that demographic finds the casting ridiculous, the then it’s a failure not matter how excellent the actor.
Really it’s only surveys and focus groups that will sort this out.
Quelling or deflecting quips from Matalas, you or any of the ‘Terry Trek’ campaigners won’t diffuse it any more than it did the revamped Klingon prosthetics.
There’s nothing to diffuse. You’re making a mountain out of a molehill.
The Jack Crusher character is presented as a loner, an outsider… not everyone has to end up joining Starfleet. Here’s an idea for a new Trek series: a series that takes place in the Trek universe but doesn’t center on Starfleet. Maybe a couple of freelancers who occasionally bump into Federation characters and worlds, but who are actually trying to avoid them. That could be a Jack Crusher premise. Route 66 in space! Prodigy sort of started this way, though obviously all the characters there want to join Starfleet and end up doing so…
Always liked the idea of a beta quadrant show. See like it would be like the wild west in this time. With the Romulan Empire less powerful.
The frontier life is rough on a boy’s skin, c’est la vie.
And as much as I agree the shows shouldn’t ignore younger audiences and how they sustain the franchise, as a kid I never once watched TNG because Wesley was closer to my age, or DS9 because of Jake or because Alexander Siddig and Terry Farrell were in their twenties.
I’m more shallow now in that sometimes I’ll watch a mediocre show just because I think an actor is hot, but Star Trek was always more than that for me. Not every kid is like I was, but I don’t think actors’ ages are a barrier if the characters and actors are engaging and well-written.
What a waste! Speleers would have made a brilliant young James Kirk. He’s the guy I could have seen carrying the TOS era forward from SNW.
Oh yeah, Big Time agree with that. And I’m not even a fan of the idea of fiddling with the TOS era at all.
I tend to agree. I don’t think I would find much interest in a Next Generation Jr. series.
Which is something I appreciated about TNG. They could’ve easily made that the adventures of people descended from those people we know in TOS. Instead, they simply made the ship’s name the descendant. As a result that made the universe feel larger.
I don’t predict a Next Gen Jr. series. But a series that has a couple of Next Gen Jr. characters? Sure.
Yeah, I guess it would depend on just how heavily they lean on TNG nostalgia.
One obvious possibility is a Titan show, with Jack as a newly minted Starfleet provisional officer. I don’t think there’s any coincidence to them highlighting the rest of the bridge crew in the advertising: Mura, T’Veen, etc.
They are laying the groundwork for another series just not sure what. Wondering if you might see Shaw in command of the Enterprise-G, a actual ‘next’ next generation, hopefully using the classic/SNW bottle episode format.
Speleers is talking like he would be the principal character, heading the series at the top of the call sheet.
Don’t want that with a second generation CrusherPicard at all.
Yeah. I have no interest in “The Star Trek Kids!” either.
I pretty much assumed that was a given since the first episode was called “The Next Generation” and we introduce 2 new children of previous characters and call back to Riker and Troi’s kids.
Personally I’d prefer completely new characters as writers tend to get lazy and give the child characters the same traits as the parents, making the child less independent and just something molded, not someone shaped by their own unique experiences and hard work. And who wants to hear “my dad, the great blah blah said…”.
Star Trek: Equalizer – Worf as an enigmatic “contractor”, travels the galaxy using his particular set of skills to help those that have nowhere else to turn. That’s the series that I want to see. Hell, they can even throw in J. Crusher and Raffi for supporting actors.
Crusher as the doctor that patches them up between missions.
Jameson made it to the 25th century. There’s hope for humanity, after all.
Top notch. Simply top notch. Great pacing, dialogue, effects. Palpable intensity, and even time for some great remembrances. And for this old nerd to see Picard in the “Big Chair” again was priceless. Sir Patrick’s energy and enthusiasm this season is evident.
In the beginning, when Riker ordered everything shut down to conserve power, my initial thought was ‘No! It’ll get darker!” Ha!
I was glad to see Riker and Picard repair that rift between them quickly. I had a fear the writers were going to belabor that.
I wonder how the fine folks at the Jameson distillery feel about their whiskey being considered ‘cheap’ in the 25th century? I know it isn’t the best….but I’ve certainly had worse!
I think Shaw was great in this one. The actor has a good range for humor, too.
Well, THAT ‘goo’-villain is rather original. Nice sfx there.
I enjoyed the father/son time. I never had a conversation with my own Dad like that. And when Shaw came in? Wish I had a seat at that bar for that.
Who needs another film in theaters when a season of Trek like this exists on TV?
25th century Jack Daniels is still cheap. A notch better then holodeck paint thinner.
This week’s Ready Room has an interview with Todd Stashwick. He mentions that he was in Second City in Chicago. That’s about as good as comedy credentials get.
Oh, neat. I’ll definitely check that out. I need to catch up on all this season’s Ready Room’s, actually. I only caught the first one. Indeed, Second City is some big street cred.
It’s a blend. It’s cheap now, it will be extra cheap in the future.
To be fair though, I think he meant it more as setting the scene as depressing and Picard just picked whatever was at hand.
“I enjoyed the father/son time. I never had a conversation with my own Dad like that.”
Same here. What I wouldn’t give.
I’m fortunate to still have a great relationship with my dad, and always have had one. But I’ve read a lot of fans who got choked up by this storyline because they didn’t have great relationships with their parents. That’s a sign of some seriously good writing.
Remember when “everyone” agreed the SFX in this show were bad? Lol. The changeling FX have been SPECTACULAR.
And I agree about the movie vs TV. I almost wish they’d put Pine and the Kelvin crew into a 4 episode miniseries.
Is anyone else having major contrast issues? The scenes in the ‘previously on’ were near unwatchable (whereas last week I could see them fine). Wondering if they plan on adjusting it and I should wait to watch it after.
It’s once again noted by Terry Matalas on twitter that there was something off with it, and it will be corrected. I keep seeing this, but it’s not been experienced by me, at least.
I had the same problem. This was the first episode of the season that was hard for me to see including previews I had previously been able to see.
I had weird issues when the show jumped from that bad Star Trek logo up front to the previously on. The graphic of the pause appeared in the middle and other info stuff around the edges. It then vanished after about 4 or 5 seconds. But that was long enough to get in the way of what was happening. Then again when it went to the show, then again when it went to the titles and yet again when it went to the show. First time P+ has done that. I swear, P+ is technically the worst streamer I’ve seen. And that’s not to even mention them shrinking the end credits to the lower right and the countdown to begin some other show. That really needs to stop. Just let the credits roll. If people want to move on they can use their controls.
This episode and last episode have me very excited for the rest of the season. I guess I was one of the odd ones who rather enjoyed the first season for what it was and ended up being, and thought the second one was very flawed but had some good stuff there. This however is what I’ve been hoping for with Picard since it was announced.
The Shaw backstory was predictable but I’m enjoying the character. Seven was really great this episode.
The Picard and Jack stuff is still my least favorite, even though it’s good. Just not wild about the secret son trope but he’s winning me over as a character. Glad they added in that scene that showed Jack did at one point try to seek out Picard but changed his mind.
Beverly seeing Riker was trying to send Deanna a message and using her name to push Riker somewhat was a nice touch. Loved the new aliens being born. Nice callback to Farpoint.
I thought the Riker and Picard scenes were excellent. Very well acted and added some nice backstory to things. I thought this was a much better use of Deanna than whatever that was last week. I’m sure there will be a little more drama once she shows up for real, but glad to see it’s going to work out. Hate though that that seems to be it for her till the last three or four episodes, but we’ll see if that just a rumor or not.
Missed Worf this week but I’m glad that it seems they’re showing at him and Raffi taking their time getting to Daystrom. Hoping Geordi gets in on the action very soon.
Last episode and this one really won be over. Glad to be proven wrong in some of my skepticism.
You and I appear sympatico in our opinions. I didn’t hate 1 & 2, but this is much closer to what I actually wanted.
That was one of the best Trek episodes I have watched in a long time. Although I gotta ask, why didn’t they just divert power from Holodeck’s special power cells instead of losing life support as a last resort. It was weird that even in a ship without power holodecks somehow still work. Riker getting his mojo back was awesome and Captain Shaw has definitely become my new favorite character.
My thought, too! I also felt that once again they had to make everyone else on the ship the dumbest people to ever live in order to guarantee that Jack had the correct idea/problem solve — the energy surges were self-evidently the fix to their problem. And to your point about the special power cells (especially since Picard tells a story about swapping power cells!), I think they could’ve had the same exact episode with the same exact issues if they had simply stated that the Titan was so damaged that it didn’t have *enough* power to break free. The whole “we’re out of power” “9%,” etc. just felt like ZOMG SO BAD kind of plotting, when they could’ve just said “we’re not getting out of here with half impulse and auxiliary power.”
“ I also felt that once again they had to make everyone else on the ship the dumbest people to ever live in order to guarantee that Jack had the correct idea/problem solve — the energy surges were self-evidently the fix to their problem.”
Thanks Tiberius Mudd!
Even when Wesley was out-Prodigying the senior officers it was around his specific gift.
He didn’t make Starfleet officers look disengaged and lacking initiative.
I feel like they made the bar set way too fancy and expensive and so had to repeatedly shoehorn it into season 2 and 3 unnecessarily. I would have preferred more but cheaper looking sets.
I seem to remember Picard saying it was an independent power cell. That seemed to suggest for me that this was not a system connected to other power systems.
People will debate why the holosuite has isolated power (a safety protocol, maybe?), but I can easily rationalize why some systems would have independent and multiple redundant power systems. Artificial gravity. Antimatter containment. Navigation deflectors. Damage control forcefields, to name a few.
I may be misremembering it, but wasn’t it specified, way back on Voyager, that the main power system for the ship, and the separate power system for the holodeck, were incompatible, and the holodeck couldn’t be tied into the main ship’s power system.
They might have diverted power from them by then. They never cut to anyone in the holodecks at that point.
Best… Star Trek… episode… since… 2005. #chefskiss
We’ll never know why they chose the pop up nag moment to introduce Troi this season instead of the very nice moment we get with her in this episode.
That wasn’t her being a nag. It was essentially her going I’m tired and I need to sleep, so it’s your turn to take care of the kids. If she’s dramatic about it, her own mother was Lwaxana Troi.
If someone sees a woman asking her husband to come home and help with parenting and says “what a nag,” that says a lot about them…
Yeah, I’m an awful person. You got me, AlphaPredator.
Compared to Lwaxana Diana was almost Vulcan about it. And the moment between her and Will at the end of the episode I found quite sweet but her question asking if he and Picard are in trouble leads me to believe she could be showing up in next weeks episode. I think she senses they are going to need her help.
Riker was out drinking with a friend while she was tired without even time to brush her hair. Reminding him of that is not nagging.
The shrew or “nag” is a common stock character in drama. Riker greets the chirp of her call with an “Oh shit!” like he knows he’s “in trouble.” I’m not saying anything controversial here and it was a dumb way to reintroduce one of these legacy characters
Yeah, that’s true. I guess the word “nag” (and shrew) are a bit dated as terms, though I’m not sure what else to call them.
The scene did seem a lot more like Marina Sirtis than Troi. It’s a pity she’s given up on the accent and seems to have forgotten how to play the character.
Good emotional story with some head-scratching techno nonsense. Nacelle caps open on the sides apparently. Computer stays mum when a crewman dies. Riker had a plan all along but pretended to be resigned to death until Picard made a speech. Why didn’t 7 shoot Meatball Stonn as he was slinking into the vent?
Great to see Rene’s image!
Hope we get more than just Zoom Marina.
I assume the Shrike survived.
On deck: Lore and Moriarty!
I don’t think this is a spoiler, but in the pre-release trailer, there’s a scene of all the crew around the conference room table (although I suppose it could have been cut from different scenes to make it seem that way).
Hmm interesting point about Riker being resigned to death. Maybe this was another way the writers wanted to put fuel to the fire of this Riker being Thomas Riker theory. I personally think he is the normal Riker and would find it a big cop-out from the writers and producers if they indeed use the twist of Thomas Riker.
Wait, how does his personal crisis add FUEL to the fire that he’s Thomas? If anything, i’d say it helps negate the theory, as it gives a concrete reason for his behavior.
I’m just gonna open with saying that the hand thing with Vadic is incredibly messed up from an in universe perspective. Like incredibly messed up and I hope they don’t retcon that into being a normal practice during the Dominion War (unless they did already in this episode, someone will have to tell me) because yikes! Now I’m worried about whether or not Weyoun had that same thing happen (with Weyoun seven and eight).
I don’t think Lore is what they stole at all actually. I think Lore will show up in the next episode.
As for Shaw, that was a huge event and more than one person being traumatized from it makes perfect sense to me. My brain associates the franchise Stargate with one part of my trauma, his and Ben Sisko’s associating Picard with theirs is something that I can totally understand.
I had more thoughts but I’ve lost them now. I’ll probably just reply with them if I can get them back.
Random questions: if anyone here collected the Eaglemoss models, did you get the Tsunkatse arena ship? Can you tell me what color the ship is? Is it silver, a grey-ish blue, a teal? I can never tell from pictures of it.
Oh yes now I remember. The contractions part was just hilarious to me. I have to wonder if someone that could give birth had any input on that or on any other place that or similar were used.
The Weyoun line died off 25 years ago. I think you can stop worrying about him.
I took the hand to being unique to Vadic. That as either the Founder(s) recruited her, or if they engineered her, they had a injured Founder who needed a host body… It could also be a Founder who was too far gone from the virus to make a recovery.
In any case, it’s clear that Vadic cannot take orders or get high level communication back from her hand, that’s why she has to cut it off to get the Founder to talk with her.
Full offense but no I’m going to keep worrying about Weyoun. And I’m going to keep caring about him.
The hand could be unique to her, yes, but there’s still a chance that they could retcon that. Nobody can say for sure one way or the other there until it’s officially said.
Also having to cut her hand off is bull. I don’t buy that even for a second. There are other ways there. And that doesn’t even change how messed up that situation is.
I got a totally different impression from watching that scene when I first saw it, and perhaps the most frustrating thing about being ahead is I can’t talk about what my own theories were.
It was very good and also very emotional. Not just for the content but also because somehow I’m just really glad these awesome actors finally got some stuff they (and their characters) deserve!
I have some questions though:
They sunk a lot of money into that 10 Forward Bar/Lounge set in season 2 and it was just one of those things that they had to use.
I don’t know about HAD too, but I do think that played into it. I also think, creatively, it’s far more interesting than them just sitting in their quarters.
Remember, it’s also only because of the public nature of the space that allowed Shaw to have his confrontation with Picard over his past.
Spend the money on a Titan crew lounge or use the expensive standing set you inherited? Easy call, considering the additional costs for the guest cast and everything else they want to do this season. “Had to” doesn’t *have* to mean that Paramount said “YOU MUST USE THIS SET,” but an experienced producer would know that they were stuck with it and would need to find a reason to keep using it.
“Spend the money on a Titan Crew Lounge.” They already spent a ton of money on new sets for the Titan, and we know Paramount is looking to cut costs. At some point, you just have to accept some real world limitations.
End of the day, it’s really not that big of a deal. Should this lead to a spin-off, i’d expect more new sets to be built to fill out the ship.
I think the set budget was seriously constrained in part because they had to afford the fees of all of the TNG legacy cast members. I mean, it was so much so that they had to jettison two main cast members of S1/S2. The Shrike bridge was actually a redress of the lower deck of the La Sirena, which I think was done convincingly and cleverly. I suppose the holocreation of Picard’s study in La Sirena during S1 was done for a similar cost-savings measure.
In the end, you gotta work with what you have to work with. Trek shows don’t get the $10 million/ep budgets that “The Last of Us” get.
Picard costs $8-9 million per episode. I am all for the cost saving measures they took and agree the cast did not come cheap, but it’s one of the more expensive shows out there.
Actually why they had a program of a bar in LA from 2024 is a very good question. Did it belong to a member of the crew? Does Picard carry that program with him wherever he goes? Not that important overall but it’s still weird.
The bar is still there in their time. It’s still Guinan’s bar.
And not a single thing about it has changed in hundreds of years…
Oh yeah. Forgot all about that.
But still doesn’t explain why they would have it as a hollowprogram. Unless some crewmember happened upon it one day and liked it so much he had the program made or Picard carries one around with him wherever he goes.
25th century Google maps. Everything is in a database, somewhere.
It’s on Picard’s thumb drive.
Which technically is now his thumb.
OK. That works!
ML31, I’ve just realized that positronic Picard is his own walking memory stick.
In S1, Laris loaded a program with Picard’s chateau office into La Sirena for him to make him comfortable.
Now, Picard can wander around with holographic environments loaded in his memory much the way Data did with large files in TNG.
With communications cut off, the Titan would just have locally stored files. Picard just loaded up what he had in internal memory.
Technically there was a precedent for holodecks being independently powered. In TNG’s Booby Trap they are shut down to conserve power, but on Voyager (Night) they keep running even when the ship is drained of power. Why the lights in the Captain Proton simulation had to go out along with the rest of the ship’s is another story though.
10 Forward is a lovingly crafted homey set. It’s a nice little way to break up the cool metal visuals as well as a money-saver.
Well… This was the weakest episode of the 4. Does that mean the show will ultimately continue to go downhill? Not necessarily. But I did find it odd that I did recall reading from some people who claimed to have seen all 10 episodes that this was among the better ones. It’s not even the best of the first 4. I see what they were doing with the flashback stuff but it just didn’t work for me. It felt very forced. In fact a number of things felt forced. Like their reasons for allowing the hollodeck to still work when everything else shut down. Sorry. If things were as dire as they said they would find a way to use that power. It was done just for the setting. At least they addressed the inconsistency even though their explanation was ridiculous. Another was it was damn obvious LaForge was the changeling. We didn’t need to wait for the Hansen/7 of 9 thing. LaForge should have been stunned the instant she came through the door as they knew no one should be down there. It was obviously done so 7/Anika could have a “moment”. Not that that’s a bad thing. It’s good to share good stuff with other characters. It’s just that felt super contrived.
That said, it’s still better than nearly every other episode of Trek Secret Hideout has made. So overall this is still the best thing they have done.
So, slightly better swill. From you, that’s as close to a compliment anyone is going to get.
Backhanded insult is as close to a non-jerk response as anyone is going to get.
Maybe he’s a changeling.
Agreed. The tone compared to the earlier episodes is way off. The holodeck availability is absurd and the fan service of Picard storytelling just lazy.
Star Trek with emotions Episode, too
I like it. Riker and Picard showing their Bro intimate talks
That was an INCREDIBLE episode! I can’t remember a time I’ve ever enjoyed Star Trek as much.
Sisko showed more restraint than Shaw, and he lost his wife, not his coworkers.
If Sisko “existed” in the moment Jennifer died, where does Shaw “exist”?
He sounds like he needs a therapy session with the Prophets…
Shaw was a young ensign, and even 24th century therapy can’t completely clear that kind of survivor’s guilt.
He needs a Counselor who drinks whiskey.
I watch a lot of tv shows. A personal flaw is that I stay invested in completing a series even if I don’t like it. I think that my loyalty extends to personal relationships too, so maybe it’s a positive attribute, ha! But, when I select the next episode of one of those shows to watch and I see that it is 57 minutes long, I prepare myself for a slog. How I know Picard Season 3 is so damn awesome is that when it is 57 minutes, like episode 4, I am excited! And when the 57 minutes are up I don’t want it to end! This show is just that good…
But despite its near perfection in my mind, there was one story detail that I found a bit out of character: Picard and Jack Sr. “acquiring” a shuttle for a booty call. Maybe I missed the timeframe, but were the two peers at the time and Picard wasn’t Jack’s commanding officer? It just seems like the Picard from the TNG days, who famously kept distant from his crew, would not be so causal with his first officer. Especially when Season 2 of Picard tried to explain why he was that way, and it had to do with suppressed childhood trauma and not something that happened later in his life. This is a very minor point for me, in what was a tremendous episode! I can’t wait until next week and we see where the story goes next!
Ok, on second viewing I think Jack and Picard in the shuttle happened before Jean Luc was captain of the Stargazer. They were serving together. And best friends. So not out of character after all! It was indeed a perfect episode :-)
Season 3 has been incredible, and IMO is what this series should have been like. Good story, great characters, and just beautiful to look at (especially the Titan). I’m also a huge fan of Shaw already, and the actor playing him.
My only concern right now is that we’re 40% into this final season, and I feel like very little has been accomplished in that time, knowing how much more we still have yet to show itself with only 6 episodes to go. I really hope these remaining episodes are not rushed and they live up to what I would say so far has been an incredible first batch of episodes.
This is a fair concern, but when you step back, you realize that 40% is only a little more than Act 1 of a story. Act 2 is where the juicy meaty part of a story typically happens.
That’s a very valid point. Hadn’t considered that. It just feels like there’s so much left to go based on the trailers so some of the plot points that feel still very much left open still.
This episode was solid, no pun intended.
Since all good things must come with a nitpick, I still don’t get why Ten Forward is in Los Angeles (other than because of tax credits) or why it’s a hangout for cadets from San Fran.
Honestly after this episode I’m sold. I can relax and just enjoy this season. They clearly finally figured it out on this show. I say this because this episode was quite close to perfection for me. No notes (other than missing Raffi and Warf but I know they’ll be back next week). Everything was just so damn good. It left me with a good hopeful feeling at the end and that is how Star Trek is supposed to make you feel. It’s why I prefer Star Trek most over all the other Sci-Fi universes.
Favorite moments: (From jump) Picard and Riker working it out. | The way Picard goes to Jack and meets him where he’s at. The tone he uses with Jack is all heart. | Everything Seven, period. | Beverly leaning into what a awesome scientist she is. | I know the Titan set is a much smaller set than the Enterprise (2022) or Discovery sets but they sure make the most of it because she feels quite real and a character of it’s own and that’s what I love about Star Trek ships and tech. | Shaw’s three detentions, even though Captain Cheesy Dick is still my designation for him, at least knowing why he’s a dick makes you feel for the guy and he clearly knows his ish (That being said being a dick still always a choice). | Something magical and so Starfleet happens at the end when they all (old crew and new) start working together and the unity becomes symphonic. I got a little choked up there. | Riker throwing the asteroid at the Shrike is so bad ass and poetic and then for them to cool all that aggression down with beautiful space babies as our new and unusual lifeforms of the week, come on writers, applause applause applause!
I love the smaller set too. The ship being cramped and basic is one of my favourite things about TOS. It feels more submarine like and makes the shore leave episodes more meaningful. It’s more believable that someone would go space crazy or that the crew would form tight bonds working together. It also gives a slight distopian feel, like they are traveling in a cramped tin can in space and the captain has to be always “on” with no cushy holodeck to escape to.
Right! I remember Nicholas Meyer saying that’s why he shrank the sets on Star Trek II and Star Trek VI — more drama in smaller sets and so much more interesting!
I honestly don’t have a preference as long as there’s a good in-universe reason. I was just speaking about how the production team has made the most of having a smaller budget than the other two shows probably have. Now, speaking in-universe, yes I think the ship would be tighter and less roomy with the Titan being a “Neo-Constitution Class” it makes since for that kind of a ship. I’d love to see a size comparison between the Enterprise-D and the Titan-A.
Raise your hand if you want a Captain Shaw Star Trek show…I do!
An interesting original captain worthy of their own show? Well going by the trend of Lorca, (non-mirror) Georgiou, and Rios, Shaw won’t appear past this season :(
Don’t worry though, it looks like they are gearing up to do a “Star Trek Kids” show where they can soft reboot all the old favourites…
I like Shaw and the Titan! Who is better though Shaw or Rios? I don’t get why they left Rios in the 21st century.
I like Rios better but perhaps that is because he was shunning Star Fleet and had a bunch of holograms in his image. Makes one wonder about his psyche.
They are kind of similar but Shaw is broken-angry and Rios was broken-sad.
I think Rios had more charisma and it was nice to see a Latin character. His plot points about his past with the augments and liking old things were pretty much wrapped up in seasons 1 and 2 but there was still a lot of potential there, especially regarding returning to Starfleet and aboard the Stargazer. His holograms were very fun too and the idea of following a character outside of Starfleet.
I’m not sure where they are going to go with Shaw now as his anger at Seven and Picard seems to have been explained and partially wrapped up, unless they are planning to go deeper into Shaw hating the Picard/Locutus thing. I hope they give him some more personality points too.
I figure they’ll have Picard prove himself to Shaw and he’ll end up respecting him.
I do. I’m finding I’m much more curious about the Titan, Shaw, Seven and the rest of the officers than the. Crusher-Picard family melodrama.
Jack hasn’t made himself interesting to me at all, except in that pained, deaged flashback.
What does it mean if Vadic is over here holding up her left hand. Is that a vote from Vadic or a Founder?
We’re still trying to get a grip on that.
I don’t get why some are so hard on Captain Shaw. Served on a ship destroyed by Locutus. Okay yes, it was not Picard himself, but it is not like Shaw refuses to work with Picard. And I don’t think anyone can blame subconciously for seeing that Picard could, forced or not, end up “going with the Borg”. Then you’ve got it where Picard “talked” to the Borg in First Contact, Picard ditches Starfleet and friends for decades to focus on artifical intelligence and builds an evacuation fleet unnecessarily out of programmed robots make to act as much as organics (which would make them slaves) as possible. The evacuation fleet was a total failure. This from a man you would think a man when forced to almost destroy the Federation would see the potential dangers of AI, instead goes obsessed with it. And then Shaw learns that Picard’s own CMO / lover / doesn’t tell him he has a kid out of concerns, I think Captain Shaw has reasonable hesitations on Picard. And it isn’t like he doesn’t follow orders or answer to Picard (which deep might be something he wants to do), he just doesn’t like him / doesn’t trust him and I think that’s fair.
Same with Shaw on Seven of Nine. She was abused as a child and made to serve the Borg, I think it makes sense that he would want her to recapture her humanity and individualism vs. her time serving the Borg. That would be like a child having been kidnapped by a predator and given a new name, I think it’s fair that some would want the child to forget that name and remember her real name.
I’m loving Shaw as a character.
I’m all in for a Titan show with Shaw and Seven as a senior officer team with Commodore Riker occasionally along for the ride.
The best episode of Nu-Trek so far. Excellent in every way.
At 26:03, I think Jack Crusher is realizing that his mom named him Jack Crusher because she knew that was something Picard would have thought about doing. For him, this is a new and unexpected part of his origin story, and Ed Speleers plays it perfectly. You can see him putting the pieces together.
Hirogen in the Alpha quadrant?! Absolute ridiculous. No chance. They’re just trying to shoe horn aliens in from Voyager
They did the same thing on Prodigy, where the Kazon are now in the Alpha/Beta Quadrant, and they were much further out than the Hirogen were. I’m not a huge fan of it either, but according to someone on Twitter involved in the show, apparently species in the Delta Quadrant used abandoned Borg conduits to get to the Alpha Quadrant. Whatever.
(to me, putting them in the alpha quadrant takes away what makes them unique)
Yeah I feel like theyre just throwing them in for the sake of it. ‘Oh its cool to reference them’ or some stuff like that
Why couldn’t the Hirogen make it to the Alpha Quadrant? Voyager made it to the Delta Quadrant, and back. Just saying…
The Caretaker brought Voyager to the Delta quadrant. Would have taken them 75 years to back to the Alpha quadrant if they hadn’t found various wormholes or borg tech
“if they hadn’t found wormholes or borg tech.” You answered your own question. There are plenty of ways to the Alpha Quadrant, and if anyone is going to make efforts to get there, i’d bet it would be the Hirogen, looking for new prey.
Leaving that half-collapsed network of Borg Transwarp conduits, was a major strategic risk in getting Voyager home.
It’s good that it had consequences.
Now that you mention it in that way, I hope this gets explored at some point. I know Mulgrew has teased a live action appearance. A story where she has to clean up that mess, and confront the mistakes she made in the DQ could be interesting.
Prodigy is giving us some of that.
Someone on Twitter pointed out that Amanda Plummer spinning in her chair and singing “goodbye” was a reference to her father’s appearance in The Sound of Music. Clever.
And her pop also spun around in his chair. Cry Havoc!
Terry Matalas should never have to buy a drink on this planet again. He’s saved Trek, in my opinion.
I know a place where there’s cheap whiskey…
I’m not going to engage in nitpicking or criticising for the fun of it or bickering with others. Nor give a long epistle.
I just want to say that this episode (part of a whole we’ve yet to see) was the most enjoyable and entertaining episode of Trek I’ve seen in a long while, maybe ever—and I go back to the TOS first airing of “Miri.” I laughed, cried, cheered, gasped, felt tension, wonder, sympathized, etc. on what is shaping up to be best serialized Trek since (and maybe exceeding) the serialized segments of DS9. I’m fully aboard this terrific ride. Kudos and thanks to everyone involved!
Good ep. But not as “mind blowingly” earth-shattering as the early access reviewers had led me to believe. At least to me. But still a good ep, with great writing and acting.
Is the story headed to Deep Space Nine and through the wormhole? Based on that exchange between Vadic and her controller, something very weird and sinister seems to be going on in the Great Link.
Apparently not 😔 but yeah that’s the rogue group of Founders. And also looking at DS9 that attitude was common during the Dominion War. It was pretty much implied that the Vorta and Jem’Hadar were just expected to throw their own lives away at the whims of the Founders or to protect them. Which is imo extremely messed up but that was the point.
While I still want to see him stick the landing, Matalas has convinced me he’s the guy to lead a Picard follow up on the Titan should one come to pass. While the space alien babies are very Farpointish, the writing as a whole has shown me there are many, many more stories to tell in this era. I already have a better feel for the bridge crew of the Titan than I ever had for Discovery. Can’t wait to see what happens next.
Not just in this era, but for these characters, something i’d never have guessed possible. They seemed so tired, old, and stale in Nemesis, and that was 21 years ago! Amazing to think that the cast here is significant older than the cast of TOS in Star Trek VI, yet seem even livelier, and not just as actors, but as characters.
Sorry, the only Titan bridge crew we’ve got much sense of is LaForge.
Perhaps we’ll get more, but I can’t remember any off their names.
They haven’t said her name much, so T’Veen is understandable, but Mura has been easy to identify because he’s been called out over and over. Also keep in mind its been just four episodes, only three of which have been taking place mostly on the Titan.
Well, as Tiger2 says, I am the one here who knows and remembers the names and small moments with Discovery’s officers.
I really pay attention to that stuff, and listen for those details as I rewatch each weekly episode.
So, if I am struggling with bridge officer names and moments for Titan, it’s telling.
What does that say? That you’re not paying attention, or not enjoying the show? Because I have had no problem identifying him by name, and I don’t think one person’s ability to remember or not remember it says much about anything other than the viewer, one way or the other.
End of the day he’s a minor recurring bit play through three episodes. It’s really not a big deal.
Well, you’ve made my point.
The Titan bridge crew are again reduced to ‘minor recurring bit play.’
Instead, Jack (prodigy-son mark II) Crusher-Picard is doing the job of the Titan’s officers for the second episode in a row.
As others have said here, it’s contrived and tiresome for Jack to figure all Titan’s problems, find and implement solutions at the expense of her well-trained officers.
I’m not sure why that point matters.
Jack is not solving all of the problems. In fact, I don’t think he’s actually done much of anything other than call out some coordinates.
It was Doc Crusher who figured out the Nebula, and that’s because she as a doctor saw something the science officers didn’t. She’s a high ranking Starfleet officer with decades more experience than any of the Titan crew, so it stands to reason she might be the first to hit on a solution. Not contrived.
What’s your next problem?
I got the impression that Jack might have been assimilated by the Borg in the same way Jurati was in season 2 of Picard (possibly by a queen from the prime universe). The room with the open door stuck out because I remember Jurati describing going in and out of different rooms while she was searching the queen’s mind to find info. Also, Jack’s scene right before that crimson vision reminded me of Picard’s dream in First Contact right before a Borg implant erupted from his cheek.
EDIT: responded to the wrong comment.
Just my opinion, but I thought the design of the alien space babies was a bit on the goofy side. But it doesn’t detract a bit from a great episode!
Yeah but that’s Trek spirit there. Klingons were kinda goofy looking but iconic. Vorta were kinda goofy looking but I still love them.
Nice little moment when Picard and Riker sat down together. With Picard in the Captain’s chair and Riker to his right…
Remember when Trekkies lost their collective — minds when Tilly said “f*cking cool” in Discovery?
Now Picard can call Shaw a “dipsh-t from Chicago” and no one bats an eye…
Sir Patty is a Shakespearean actor and can deliver it thus.
What they really hated was that it was a woman.
A woman who, given Picard’s continuing self-absorption and arrogance, was absolutely right.
I think you’ve hit on something important here though Alpha Predator though.
A lot of the old guard male Trek fans who have come around on this show are giving a pass on things that they’d be angry, obsessing and nitpicking about if the characters saying or doing them weren’t straight white males.
Others have pointed out how guy-centric this season is. Beverly – despite the hype – is still a caretaker and her big insight is about a nebula in labour.
While much of that is due to the gendered roles of TNG, I was expecting better. Making Crusher’s child male just reinforces how male-skewed this season is.
As much as I loved 12 Monkeys, I am not seeing visually or in the characterizations that Matalas should be given any more overarching creative role in the franchise. Let’s see him create and run a new series with greater diversity, and less obsessively nostalgic design first.
This episode is a mess. I won’t go on, because spoilers. Don’t want to get anyone’s panties in a twist. IYKYK
You shouldn’t have to restrain your opinions because others don’t like them. If anyone’s panties get twisted that’s THEIR problem. Not yours. Diversity of viewpoints is great and echo chambers don’t lead to anything good. Even if there is an argument that doesn’t mean the other opinion is invalid. And in this case, in the end it’s just a TV show and for fun and entertainment.