Shatner Praises Abrams Film + Critiques Business Decision November 21, 2007
by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Shatner, Star Trek (2009 film) , trackbackIn the latest ShatnerVision Bill plays nice, but makes it clear he is not in the new movie.
UPDATED: But he still seems to be critical of the decision (see below)
Extra TV cought up with Shatner at a book signing last night, and he again repeated that he thinks it is a bad move to not put him in the movie.
How could you not put one of the founding figures into a movie that was being resurrected? That doesn’t make good business sense to me!
…
I’ve become even more popular than I was playing Captain Kirk. I’m good box office and I get publicity….But, they are going in a different direction and it’ll be a wonderful film.
Check out Extra Wednesday night for more.
Shatner The Shaman?
One last bit of Shat news for the day. In his latest gig as a pitchman, Shatner is now hawking World of Warcraft. Click the image below for the Shat-tastic commercial
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Maybe he’s finally accepted older Kirk’s fate… maybe.
Oh no- not another Bill thread! And I love him!
Right at the end of the interview.. he looked annoyed. lol
Too bad about the strike – now there’s no hope.
I wonder if that was JJ’s plan all along? It’s not like they did’t know it was coming, and Shatner did make a lot of fuss just before the strike.
damn he looks good though! I hope I look that good when I’m his age!
He looks damn good here. As good as XI MIGHT be … if he isn’t in it, I’ll always think of the movie that could have been. Not taking advantage of perhaps their last chance to use him is a COLOSSAL wasted opportunity!
In related news, Shatner is selling World of Warcraft now, along with Mr. T.
Now, I’m serious.
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/downloads/movies.html
Bill looks terrific.
He’ll be in it. Think people, you have someone like William Shatner saying he’ll be in it. Not only is the nostalgia great but it can add to a great story. It will be one of those little surprises that will come up later………………………………………………………………………….I hope.
Of course Shatner looks good. Look at all the money he’s raking in doing endorsements and commercials. He can afford to “slap on a new coat of paint” as it were.
When I think World of Warcraft, I automatically think of Mr, T, William Shatner, and Verne Troyer.
It’s a conspiracy… He’s going to be in it. They’ve been planning it ever since the beginning, but they want us to be surprised so all this banter about him not being in it is just to keep us off the scent.
Anyway Shatner isn’t Star Trek, Kirk (and others…) is Star Trek. Let’s not confuse the role with the actor.
Okay, so he’s not in the movie.
He does comport himself with more grace in this video than in the recent past. Good for him. :)
(A) I wouldn’t be surprised if he really is in it.
(B) I wouldn’t be surprised if he really isn’t in it.
(C) At this point, I still wouldn’t be surprised if the movie turns out in such a way that he’d regret being in it (though naturally I hope otherwise).
(D) I think he’s secretly playing the monster in Cloverfield, and has been too busy with that for Trek right now.
(E) Either way, he rocks always and forever.
He still looked hack off as he turned away from the camera after he said, “I certainly will still go see the movie”
its a shame he isnt going to be in this, but like he said I’ll still go see the movie.
He still looked hacked off as he turned away from the camera after he said, “I certainly will still go see the movie”
its a shame he isnt going to be in this, but like he said I’ll still go see the movie.
I DON’T UNDERSTAND THE EXTREME SIDES OF BOTH CAMPS.
So far, this thread has been civil, but you know it’s only a matter of time before it degenerates into the “Shatner Haters: He Sucks” vs. “Shatner Lovers: Boycott TREK XI” camps.
I don’t agree with or understand the two extremes. Most fans love Captain Kirk, but you’d think the Haters thought that William Shatner came over to their house and kicked their dog. He would LIKE to be in TREK XI, and his comments haven’t been THAT unreasonable, but somehow he’s suddenly transformed into the Single Biggest Jerk on the Planet.
The Lovers who would boycott and badmouth STAR TREK XI just because Shatner won’t be in it are just as sad. Nimoy is arguably the most recognizable FACE of STAR TREK XI, even if Shatner is the biggest NAME. But because the writers have decided NOT to pander to them and simply shoe-horn in Kirk/Shatner, they’ve been branded liars and lowlifes.
Hopefully both camps will meet in a parking lot somewhere and cancel each other out, like so much Matter and Anti-matter. If Shatner is in TREK XI, then fine, great. It’ll be good to see him one last time as Kirk. If he’s not, guess what: The Earth will keep spinning, Shatner will still make a gazillion bucks doing something else, and you’ll still have to eat, sleep and poop just like everyone else on the planet. Life will go on… but only if you let it.
I will keep hoping for a huge, monumental, historic surprise appearance, no matter how unlikely it looks now.
#17:”I will keep hoping for a huge, monumental, historic surprise appearance, no matter how unlikely it looks now.”
No, Jack Nicholson will not be doing a cameo.
He’ll be in it, of course. If the whole plot is about changing a timeline without Kirk, they want you to be unaware og his part in it, to keep the conclusion an open question.
Anybody remember how they kept Nimoy off the cast list on ST3, just to cast some doubt as to whether he comes back at the end? I do.
Generalismo Fransisco Franco is still dead.
#19
BANG (Sound of hammer hitting nail on the head)
I remember ST III very well.
In 1984, by the time the film opened, everybody who was paying attention knew that Nimoy was in the film playing Spock.
Shatner is not currently part of this movie. Who knows, that might change…but continuing to believe that this is all a publicity stunt has long since come to look, paradoxically, more naive than taking everyone involved at their words.
I still don’t understand why Shatner (or anyone else) is upset that he won’t be in the new film. Unless I’m mistaken, Kirk is dead. It doesn’t seem that the movie (the Nimoy part) is set prior to “Generations” so how could the older Kirk be in it? I agree with whoever posted above that Shatner isn’t Star Trek. I’ll go see it because of my love of the characters/world not because of the actors.
#22
Mr. Bailey, you may be right. We’ll know in December 2008. About being naive, I concede that I do still believe in Santa Claus. Why? Because it’s a nicer world with him in it than without. Maybe that’s why people hope against hope Shatner will be in the movie. But even if he’s not, I’m sure it will be a good movie.
In another thread awhile back, dalek speculated that perhaps even Shatner hadn’t been told yet of secret plans to include him. To which Roberto Orci cryptically replied, “Hmmm”. Many of us picked up on that.
It’s a long way from now until March. There are always possibilities.
Article updated with new interview quotes
They don’t want to PAY HIM ENOUGH!
That’s why.
The expresion on his face when he turns from the camera at the fade is pure gold. He is none too pleased, that much is obvious, unless he’s –dare I say it?– ACTING.
That would be a first.
All kidding aside, it would have been nice if they could’ve found a way to undo ‘Generations’, but he signed the contract, played the part & died with a little smile on his face. It was handled poorly, but he was part of the handling. His ego pays the price in 2007.
Has Bill lost weight?
Dont know if anyone has said this before and im not gonna read this whole thread. But as far as Shatner’s “bad business” point, I agree. BUT! It seems that its become great business cause he’s talking about the movie all the time, all the major media has reported at least once on this. Talk about building buzz for a movie over year before its released!
I really want ST XI to be good. If Shatner is in fine. If not, fine. My new problem is that I saw Transformers last weekend. I know you cannot compare the efforts of one writing team take on a movie with another, but I got to say, that was a craptastic movie.
Everyone keeps saying these guys have written a great ST XI script and I hope that is true, but after watching Transformers I had a sinking feeling in my stomach.
I know, I know, these guys were writing a teen-driven monster robot action flick and I guess they did a good job, but I hope the script lives up to the hype.
Well, if the rumored plot is true (about an alternate timeline) then perhaps there is a way to incorporate a septuagenarian Kirk into the story (where the events of Generations never took place). But again, it should be plausible, not gimmicky. I think this alternate timeline of Trek is straining the boundaries as is. While I don’t think Shatner is going to be in this movie, I wouldn’t be surprised if J.J. sneaked him into a final scene.
#23 HLC
You stated:
“I still don’t understand why Shatner (or anyone else) is upset that he won’t be in the new film.”
There are a number of various good reasons why Shatner might be disappointed about being left out of this movie…
1) First, he met with JJ Abrams and was left with the impression that he might somehow be involved in the film. That alone should be enough to explain his disappointment. If you were led to believe that you might be involved in a really cool project, and then the project went underway without you, wouldn’t you be disappointed?
If that wasn’t enough of a reason (and it is), there are some other reasons:
2) From all accounts, the movie seems to be one involving time travel. It also appears that Spock will be going back in time to save the young Kirk. So, it seems silly to me that Spock would travel back in time to save Kirk and not warn him about the events in Generations. But regardless, the time travel aspect should allow Shatner to be included.
3&4)
As long as the Kirk character dies by falling on some rocks and getting squished by a bridge, it sort of spoils the end of the story of Kirk’s life. In other words, the character played by Chris Pine will always be destined to die a very unintelligent death on Veridian III. And to me, that sours things a bit. I want to watch Pine’s Kirk without knowing that he dies a ridiculous death. (By the way, the stupidest thing about Kirk’s death is that Picard didn’t lead him out of the Nexus earlier, before Soran had everything ready.) This is actually two separate reasons. Reason #3 is that the end of Kirk’s life is already known to us, and so Chris Pine’s Kirk will always have that absurd destiny. Reason #4 is that Kirk’s death was so stupid that it ought to be undone merely because the Kirk character deserves better.
I’m sure there are other great reasons, but the first one should be more than sufficient.
Maybe this is the whole reason why the story is happening. A slight reset, a slight alteration the the time line, and Kirk is NOT killed by the 2 tonnes of falling rocks and bridge.
Or, maybe this is to guarantee that he does…. bwah-ha-ha!
Still Luvin The Shat!
I wonder if this whole thing is a conspiracy. Oh, I’m not saying that it is, but I can think of one good reason why it might be…
They have been talking about recasting Kirk and Spock since Harve Bennett wanted to make the Academy movie. But back then, and ever since, some people have claimed that these roles are so iconic that no one else could ever fill them.
Maybe JJ was concerned that people might not be crazy about Quinto or Pine or anyone else he picked. And maybe when the Shatner controversy erupted, he decided to sit back and let it brew, the whole time being thankful that people are fussing about Shatner, and not complaining about the casting choices.
I’m not saying that this is the case, but I can at least imagine it as the reasonable explanation to this whole thing.
#23 ” still don’t understand why Shatner (or anyone else) is upset that he won’t be in the new film. Unless I’m mistaken, Kirk is dead.”
No you’re not mistaken, his character died on whatever Staradate that travesty Generations occured.
What you and many others don’t seem to get, is that this is a science fiction film. It’s also a film about time travel. Now add to that, a story involving a NEW alternate timeline. Those are the conditions that make it VERY feasable for Shatner to pop up, as Jim Kirk. It’s not anywhere near the stretch so many are making it out to be.
Kiroc, # 33 – Hear, hear!
After Nick Meyer’s brilliant and moving death and funeral scene for Spock, Rick Berman et al. gave us “cover Kirk up with rocks” and Uncle Fester “shoot him in the back”, which was re-filmed.
The tragedy, to me, is that Shatner and Nimoy are both now, pardon the expression, Senior citizens. How much earthly time do they have before they do “shuffle off this mortal coil”?
What a wasted opportunity, if only to have Spock face to face with elderly Kirk whom he rescued from Picard’s idiocy (or Berman, Braga, and what’s his name, Gatlactica Ron Moore) mediocre writing.
Then again, maybe they will spring this on us, but I fear not.
Hey, let’s get the Shat on Star Trek: New Voyages. I’d bet he’d do it if he’s really not in this film!
Calling Captain Cawley (if I spelled his name correctly) :)
Why don’t the people who are behind this film simply state that he is not in the film?
#13 Amen to that.
I love bill, and want him to be in it, but i’ll go watch the movie if he’s not in it. Now, what is our new younger Kirk these days? Any news anthony?
#39 sorry meant to say where, not what! :P
I gotta say Bill looks better in the above clip than in this one done a few years ago (one of my favorite Shatner moments).
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ve5zhBmQVXk
Its a ploy!!!
Its a ruse!!!
I think that the big payoff at the end is Shatner’s uncredited appearance !!!
Lets say the themes of the film are “Why is he my friend in the future?” and “I don’t like to lose.”
so young Kirk overhears a conversation between old and young spock about kirks death and he thinks to himself: right I’m gonna set things straight, do what Doc Brown did and come back to life…
i bet you this is not too far off!
Hey, may all the Shatnahaters and Shatnaholics and everyone in-between have a lovely Thanksgiving. :)
Perhaps Mr. Shatner is realizing he’s actually finally absolutley unequivocally undeniably obviously definetly unmistakably categorically
NOT IN THE FILM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
dtST 400
Shatner not being in the movie has become big enough news that Perez Hilton is reporting on it! How surreal is that?
http://perezhilton.com/?p=9230
#28
- All kidding aside, it would have been nice if they could’ve found a way to
undo ‘Generations’, but he signed the contract, played the part & died with a little smile on his face. It was handled poorly, but he was part of the handling. His ego pays the price in 2007. –
Your Honour, it’s been 13 years – he should be released on parole.
To his credit, his ego’s bigger than his crime. And although his victim was but a fictional character, my client has offered full redress. He deserves the chance to do so. I assure you, his former victim will benefit from it, as well.
whoever said put The Shat in New Voyages, i agree! If it is truly Star Trek and not money and publicity that The Stat cares about, do New Voyages. Yes they have had to do a couple of aging/time travel stories to get other old stars in, but i am fine with that. if every episode of New Voyages is a time travel one and we get a different original cast member every time, so be it.
Lets see Pine in uniform!!
#33 You could have NOT have stated it any better! Just for sheer fact that if Nimoy is in this movie (especially a project of this magnitude). Shatner MUST be in it. As I have stated before the future of the Star Trek franchise is riding high on this movie (while I believe that it will be an overall good movie) — it would not be the same without Shatner playing “older Kirk”. How weird was it to see Nimoy not at Shatner’s side in Generations. Better yet — what if this new movie has Shatner/Pine, playing old/young Kirk and ONLY Quinto playing young Spock?. I can almost guarantee you that the reaction would have been virtually, if not the same!!! Forget Shatner’s ego, etc. etc. etc. etc. SHATNER IS KIRK!!!!! SHATNER MUST PLAY KIRK!!!!!!
BTW, just got Remastered TOS, this morning — TOTALLY WORTH THE AMOUNT OF DEAD PRESIDENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Shatner would never do a NV episode, nor would I want to see him in one. He expects to be well paid and I don’t blame him, after the zillions of dollars Paramount has made off his image.
#45
Shatner would make the new Star Trek film an event. He is the face of Star Trek to the general public. Getting a mention on a site like Perez Hilton would indicate that Star Trek with Shatner has cross over appeal.
I simply can’t understand why he is not wanted.
Will he or won’t he? We’ll not know anytime soon. But I bet credits to navy beans he will.
And I second Mr. Baileys motion for a Happy Thanksgiving to all, Shatnerphobes and Shatner-groupies alike! Tis a good time to be a fan, I’m certainly thankful for that!
Remember, Shatner took a big fat paycheck to star in and DIRECT ST:V and he almost killed the franchise…right after the biggest box office draw Star Trek ever had.
Remember, Shatner took a big fat paycheck to be in Generations and kill off his character. No sense whining about it now.
And remember, when Enterprise was dying and the franchise needed a shot in the arm, Shatner refused a guest spot…that was written just for him…because the paycheck wasn’t big enough. (For what Star Trek has meant to him financially over the years, the SOB should have done it for free just to give something back to the franchise and fans. But nnnnnnnooOOOOOOOooooo.)
It isn’t always about you Bill. Just give it a rest and let the rest of enjoy this new ride.
(And just when was the last time the Willian Shatner name meant a Box Office guarantee? Hmmmm. Maybe never?)
What a schmuck!
#33
Very, very well put.
#50
It’s not so much that I don’t want to see Mr. Shatner in the new movie, but I don’t want him shoe-horned in if it doesn’t make any sense. Wouldn’t be good for Trek. Wouldn’t be good for Mr. Shatner.His character was killed off in Generations. Many people (myself included) found it a somewhat unsatisfactory death, but it was there. On screen. It happened!(within the fictional Star Trek universe). You can’t just cherry pick out what you don’t like about cannon.
#33:
What is an “intelligent” death? Kirk beats the Guardian of Forever at a game of 3D chess and the Guardian makes his head explode in a violent rage?
How many BILLIONS of lives the Kirk give his life to save in Generations anyway? Wasn’t it something like 4 billion + the entire crew of the Enterprise D, etc.? That seems pretty heroic to me.
MY my it just amazes me just how full of himself he is.
#55
It would have been heroic if he knowingly flew a shuttlecraft into the missle to stop it from destroying the Veridian sun as last ditch effort to save those billions of lives. Instead, he fell off of a crumbling catwalk trying to get to a remote control. Lame, lazy writing. The only reason Berman and company put him in the movie at all was that they were afraid to launch a motion picture on the merits of just TNG. And Bill couldn’t resist the paycheck. (Nimoy and Kelley had the good sense to stay away for the sake of their integrity.)
As others have pointed out, when the Shat turns away from the camera at the end….with THAT expression on his face…..you’d almost think somebody put a turd under his nose!!
#55:
“Kirk beats the Guardian of Forever at a game of 3D chess and the Guardian makes his head explode in a violent rage?”
What episode was this in? TOS or NV? Or a deleted scene from one of the films??
Kirk needs to come back, if only to die a HERO’S death. In Generations he could have died trying to disarm the missle that detonated Veridian 3 by making it blow up on the launch pad. Instead he gets crushed by a bridge and some rocks???
Has been.. might again..
Shat is a can-do guy. Proving fate wrong by continuing, persisting.. Here we have a moment and it is passing him by and he feels it..
or..not, whatever
Wm Shatner is an awesome actor. He had me believing what he said until he sneered at the very end of the clip. I bow down in reverence to the Temple of the Shat!
Harry and Gary, I thought that exact same thing when I watched the clip.
50. Ivory – November 21, 2007
“I simply can’t understand why he is not wanted. ”
Where’d that come from?
It was stated that they did want him, at least at one point. We don’t know what happened between then and now, but I remind you there are two sides to every coin. Let’s assume nothing until facts are known.
And who said there is a conspiracy to keep him out? Oh please…
years from now,, Im going to watch all his,,”Im not in the movie” talk and laugh as I watch Mr. Shatner in Trek 11and think,, man that bugger was really lieing though his teeth!!
#64 not lying.. Acting!
People, I think it’s NO COINCIDENCE BILL IS LOOKING as GOOD as some have pointed out he’s looking in that video above.
He has most DEFINITELY lost weight and, as a result, his hair seems fuller and his face no longer seems to be bulging out as it normally does. Rather than a greedy couch potato, he is now looking more like a gracefully aged Kirk than he has in a very long time.
Could he be shaping up for an uncredited appearance in the new Trek XI?
Remember – reality often exceeds all imagination.
Live long and prosper.
55. Admiral Denny Crane – November 21, 2007
Hey Admiral!
Basically, an intelligent death would be one in which you do not get killed because you make a ridiculously stupid mistake.
In Generations, Kirk died because Picard was so absurdly stupid that he decided to leave the Nexus at the most perilous of times. The Nexus would have let him leave at any time and place of his choice. But instead of exiting the Nexus at a reasonable time and place, he goes right where Soran can kill them.
An intelligent death would be one like Spock’s.
#33:
What is an “intelligent” death? Kirk beats the Guardian of Forever at a game of 3D chess and the Guardian makes his head explode in a violent rage?
How many BILLIONS of lives the Kirk give his life to save in Generations anyway? Wasn’t it something like 4 billion + the entire crew of the Enterprise D, etc.? That seems pretty heroic to me.
Just watched the clip again. Bill pursed his lips as his soundbite ended, a very common facial expression and one he makes often on tv. There was no negativity behind it.
Some people here amaze me, and not in a good way. Before they were crying that, ‘Shatner is boycotting the new film! He’s throwing tantrums!’ Now that it’s clear he’s doing no such thing, they’re attempting to read into his facial expressions. What a desperate grab at straws. Please, people, give it up! My prediction of a Shatner/Pine joint convention appearance, as well as Shatner being on the red carpet for the movie premiere are coming closer to reality all the time.
I think this should be the LAST video Shatner makes referencing the new movie, until there is some major reason or news to do so. At this point, it’s gotten a little over done, but at the same time I’m very upset that he’s been told nothing. You’d think at some point someone at Paramount could perhaps call Bill and tell him he’s definitely out (if they haven’t)?
Especially since all it seems to be good for is a dart board for people who don’t like him. Such as #52, one of the most ill informed posts I’ve read yet.
ST V was a good film, and it’s shortfalls were not Shatner’s fault. He tried to get several top sci-fi writers to do the script, but they were already on other movies. The film’s budget was tiny, since Paramount was focusing on TNG. The film was produced and shot in a very short time.
As for a pay check, yeah, why not? Paramount makes droves of money from Star Trek, particularly on the image and performance of Shatner. Why should he give them a free bee? The man donates to worthy causes, such as his horse show. Is Paramount a charity case now? Nimoy is being paid hansomly for his role.
#67
Whoops.
The stuff after the #33 was written by Admiral Denny Crane. I was trying to respond to it, but in my own haste, I accidentally left it at the bottom of the post.
The real message from the Shat is in the last 3 seconds of the video. lol.
We are all stil looking for reason in Kirk’s sad demise.
Could it be that Spock finally learns of his friend’s fate and ALSO decides
its just not Logical? Hence, this new movie’s plot is in place. No Romulans needed. It might be interesting to see Spock as the chief antagonist while trying to get past Star Fleet security to the Gaudian.
Or, as an unwelcome interloper who must change the past in a way so that his Kirk could live.
Given the opportunity, I think we would all make the same decision.
Mr. Shatner, you should TRY TO BE THERE by the end of the movie.
Cameos can be very remarkable. To put it in your own words…
“Find a reason, and make it stick!”
– TOS: “The Paradise Syndrome” (it’s the one in which you lost your memory and married the indian princess.)
Just let us know what you need to make it happen, and the fans will do the rest! : ) We promise!
First, to everyone, best wishes for a Happy Thanksgiving.
You know, I didn’t give credit to Harve Bennett for innovating the “Amazing Grace” scene, and don’t tell me the film makers of the recent Amazing Grace, which I can recommend were not influenced by it.
# 67, Kirok Fan: Not only the death of Kirk was pointless, there was no honoring of the character; just a cairn. Nothing moving; the script was clumsy, artless, not at all literate. Yeah, Nexus — you can appear any time you want. I don’t like the word “closure” but perhaps that is apt in this instance.
One solution: there is still an “echo” of Guinan in the Nexus; I’m sure Kirk is still there as well.
I do hope Shatner appears in the film, at the end, but I think he’s honest.
As to money: it’s how he earns a living. Billions have been made, and I don’t think his getting compensated should be an issue; I doubt his fees are as large as Brad Pitt’s, for instance.
Kirk’s character died!!! Let’s think about this. Star Trek XI is about saving the franshise by bringing in a fresh audience and new actors. Using this film to go back and correct a death that happened a few films ago is completely ridiculous, the people that Paramount are trying to draw in, i.e the uninitiated, would have no idea what is going on, and would just look stupid. Start fresh! Shatner’s Kirk is dead! Its not like if he was going to appear in a cameo at the end we’ll end up seeing a whole series of film’s devoted to Shatner’s Kirk because he too old!
The last three seconds show a many who is trying to put a good face on bitter. I feel sorry for him.
shatner looks great and great enough to wear the uniform one more time on the big screen. ive seen this clip with bill chatting about the new movie but theres still something not quite right aboutn the whole thing. id like to hear abrahams version of events too. i still wouldnt rule out shatner in it you know.
#74 we dont want a whole series of films devoted to kirk as you put it. we just want the shambles of trek 7 put right, we want our hero to have a better ending than just falling off a poxy bridge. he may as well have been run over by a bus. it was unecessary. i know bill agreed to star in it though and that was a huge mistake, it might have been his ego which made him do it – having dual top billing with stewart when it was released at the pitctures.
cheers
greg
UK
Not this… yet again.
I wish they would just end the speculation once and for all.
He’s certainly not in negotiations at present to be in the movie.
Conclusive Proof: he hasn’t grown the trademark side burns.
And yeah i do think he’s lost some weight.
#25 True but I also speculated whether he was in it or not. So it could also mean they have yet to decide to tell him he is definitely not in it for sure. Given the importance of Shatner’s involvement for me personally, I won’t hang any hopes on a “hmmmm” on a message board that could mean anything ;)
At the moment the two sides haven’t talked by all accounts.
76
yeah, but kirks death’s been done. My point is is that I think confusing the plot to have shatner in at the end will be detrimental to how well the film does at the box office by complicating thinks for non Trekers, who just won’t understand what is going on
Good grief, having just watched it again, he certainly doesn’t look happy at the end. It’s almost as if its sarcasm or he’s being forced to say what he has.
You know I see people writing and say “he could still be in the movie” right up until they see it!
This is basically a rehash of old news again with the same comments from him and us. I’m sorry he’s not in it, but I can sleep at night not worrying about it and I expect to enjoy a movie that opens a year from this Christmas.
You’re dead, Jim.
Deal.
(Though that WoW spot is pretty awesome.)
“There shall be no peace.. as long as Kirks dead.”
To Anthony and all:
Paul, webmaster for williamshatner.com posted, speaking directly to Roberto O., and clued us in as to why they keep doing these videos.
http://www.williamshatner.com/PNphpBB2-viewtopic-t-30462-sid-0950d99228b98ad23f106912b6ae44ee.phtml
“This was from a week ago. I don’t know what else Bill can say to tell fans he is not in the movie. I’m sure SOME PEOPLE will try to find a way to twist what he says into Bill saying he’s in the movie. Good luck if you can. Wink
http://www.williamshatner.com/Article326.phtml
Note to Roberto: I’m getting tired of putting out these “Bill is not in the movie” ShatnerVisions. I think fans have got the message by now but when you counter with something cryptic; my only choice is do another one. They get a lot of hits but really don’t say much.
Also could you tell JJ that Bill said nice things about him in this video? (He’ll know what I mean) Can we just end the war of the statements with this video and if and when you want to offer something you do it on the down low and we call detente on this issue going forward? Laughing
Thanks,
Paul”
My, that was… public.
78-”Conclusive Proof: he hasn’t grown the trademark side burns”
If KIrk, in the altered timeline, is alive and has retired at the time we see him, he wouldn’t have to sport the Starfleet issue sideburns unless he wanted to.
PS: Paul did later comment that “What did you think of my message to Roberto? I was tired and silly last night when I posted it.”
I think he’s just saying that the new Star Trek team should stop commenting on Shatner until they’re ready to make a final decision.
Yes and he forgot to grow Kirkburns for the first portion of Generations so the make-up dude cit a mustache in half and glued the pieces in place. He had his own organic kirkburns grown out when he went back to the set weeks later.
#88 Quite possibly. Another thing i have just remembered is Shatner forgot to grow them for Generations, and in the scene on the Ent B, the make up artist had cut a moustache in half and glued if on to him, but by the time the nexus scenes were filmed it was his real hair.
#90 that was very spooky lol
well, it´s pretty obvious that he´s mad about not being in the movie (the last scene says everything). but perhaps they asked him to be in the movie, but he just didn´t hear them over the sound of how awesome he is.
seriously, he may be dissapointed or angry but I would still like to see him in the new movie. I mean… it´s william shatner! this man is a legend! and he loves himself so much, you can´t help it and love him too.
I don’t buy it. Of course he’ll be in the movie. It’s all a bluff.
Isn’t it?
Speaking of the Shat…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-yy2URAYqU&feature=related
Yeah, that last shot is either, “See, I’m not the one being a dick” or else he had a bad clam for lunch.
captain fantastic #79
i undersatnd your point but if they came up with a really good way of getting old kirk/shatner into the movie would you be up for it? id take a cameo or anything at the moment.
i happen to think that im beginning to wish that none of the original actors were in this movie. i love nimoy and the others naturally but a completely clean start might have been better rather than one or two of the old crew appearing. its diverting attention away from the movie itself with all the problems its causing.
cheers
greg
UK
I had been critical of the way Shatner has conducted himself over not being in the movie, but in this instance he came across as very professional, so kudos to him!
Damn yes! Shat the Shaman kicks ass! WoW is an awesome game, lol…and as addicting as Star Trek. ;P
#94. I hope.
#98. He’s learning ^^
#94
I don’t know. Is his agent’s name Harv Corbomite, with offices in Century City?
Then it is a bluff.
#95-
I’ve seen it once before, but that Shatner YouTube clip…
…IS THE SINGLE GREATEST SHATNER YOUTUBE CLIP… EVER!!!
(I think I’ve wet myself both times watching it. Pure genius.)
#101
I have only two YouTube clips bookmarked on my notebook: that one of The Man, and the 21-year old gal dancing/performing to “Code Monkey”.
Okay, you might have me convinced about this being a ruse.
I remember Shatner said in one of his vidoes that he’d even slim down for the role. And he does appear to be losing weight.
If you guys get my hopes up and this doesn’t happen… kobayashi maru!
I must agree with #97 Since we can never have the original 7 back together, it might have been best to start of the reboot with new group of actors with no one from TOS in view.
If it was up to me all 5 of the TOS group still here would have parts in the film.But the important thing is bringing Star Trek back and the best way is to use the TOS world.
75. “The last three seconds show a many who is trying to put a good face on bitter. I feel sorry for him.”
71. “The real message from the Shat is in the last 3 seconds of the video”
Oh brother! Now you people claim to have Shatner’s “true feelings” narrowed down to exact seconds?? Why hasn’t the FBI contacted you for your remarkable profiling skills; I’m sure you walking lie detectors could prove invaluable in determining the guilt of all sorts of suspects. Ridiculous.
Go back and read my post #68. The man didn’t do anything wrong here!
Dont Shatner and Nimoy have special contracts for star trek whereby one has to have exactly the same clauses the other has if they are to appear in a trek movie? (specifically relating to the fee) Therefore maybe Shatners side of the contract priced himself out of the movie cause he would be due exactly the same $ as Nimoy…Nimoy it seems will have a big role in this film (maybe a similar amount of screen time as Shatner got in Generations) and will i imagine be getting probably something similar to what Shatner got for that movie ($5 million in 1994 – might be around $7 million in todays money )
Now we know that old kirk is not the focus of the movie like old spock probably is – so if Shatner was given just a very brief fan pleasing cameo in the movie (e.g a Back to the Future style end scene showing Kirk alive and well) perhaps his star trek contract required him to be paid the same as Nimoy and the producers or whoever said that it wasnt worth it…
Its possible that when their star trek contracts were drafted the idea of one appearing in a movie only briefly while the other having a big role wasnt considered….
After all didnt Shatner say a while back that he would not do ‘just a cameo’?
i dunno – just speculating…
No one has a “contract for life” with of that kind with a studio.
Bill is looking much better. He’s getting in shape for the film.
97 Classic trek
I agree with you on the last point, having any of the original actors in the film is really complicating things, but I can see why they put Spock in. Nimoy really defines classic star trek and would give the film some gravitas. I hope they get him in without really complicated time travel which will confuse new viewers who don’t know anything about the established timeline. Time-travalling Romulans and the Guardian of Forever cropping up really puts me off the film. They should boldly go where no Trek has gone before!
As Leonard Nimoy said, his character has been dead for three films. He agreed to be in the movie. He agreed to portray his character’s death. Nimoy was offered a role in Generations and he wisely turned it down. Shatner could have done the same thing, but he didn’t.
What was the first thing Shatner did after his character was killed? He wrote a book resurrecting him. Actually it was a good book, but that’s irrelevant. If he wanted Kirk to be alive so bad he should have turned down Generations. The fact that he didn’t leaves him in the situation he’s in now: wanting to reprise his signature role, but unable to do so because of a lousy decision he made a decade earlier.
Tough luck, Shatner.
I miss the days while filming Generations when Shatner was all humble and the hatches between actors had been buried. This is now just pathetic.
#111 … Care to tell us what “hatches between actors” have been unburied? And how is saying the new cast and director are “wonderful”, that the movie will “enliven the franchise” and that he wants to see the movie pathetic?? Did you even play the clip? It’s only a minute long. Am you from Bizarro World?
Didn’t realize my cryptic messages were so painful to deal with.
I’ll comment no further on the matter.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Can
Really
Yank
People
Talking
In
Code
Oh, you’re good Orci……..you’re REALLY good!!!
#114
It’s late and I’m running on vapour, but ?
#112 Shatner_Fan_2000
He did nothing to you. Back off the personal attack.
#113 roberto Orci
Have a great holiday. Thanks for joining us.
#115
Er, try reading the first letter of every word in #114……..and what does it spell?
When you hear the bell move on to geography……………….DING!!
#118
Yes, I got that smart a$$, but why are you implying that Orci is doing the same – he’s been square with us within reasonable limits.
That’s my question.
#116 … Correct me if any of this is wrong, but Shatner said the new cast and director are “wonderful”, that the movie will “enliven the franchise” and that he wants to see it … and #111 somehow construed that as “pathetic”. Excuse me, but … HUH?? I think that’s a prime example of the worst kind of unfair bashing. I mean, what does Shatner have to do to get some people to stop with the hate – kneel before Abrams and lick his boots?
I found Shatner’s comments here as fair and encouraging as can be under the circumstances. Bizarro is the polar opposite, ‘up is down, black is white’ archetype. So using him as a reference is fitting!
Screw this debate! Watch THIS if you need a Shat fix:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvQwXOCKNLY&feature=related
& Hpy. Thksgvg.
-D
120. Shatner_Fan_2000 – November 21, 2007
November 8, 2007
by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Shatner, Books, Star Trek (2008 film)
“The original Captain Kirk went on to say he “doesn’t care” about not being in the movie, but again stated that asking Nimoy to be in the film without himself was a “stupid business decision.”
Yea, I bet JJ and the Bad Robot people felt all encouraged and complimented about that one.
Hate? No one hates him…
Sung to the tune of ‘Silent Night’
Starship
Enterprise
Soon She’ll come
Big Surprise
All we Trekkers-
Will soon believe
Gene’s TRUE vision
Will finally be seen
Dream of stellar-ly dreams
Dream Rodenberry’s dream
Happy Thanksgiving-
STAR TREK is born again- In 2008
….And I love it!
I bet I know why hes not in it. He’s such a pain in the arse. ‘I was first so I get more money than anyone else and first title’ JUST like Generations. I like the guy, and I like his character. He needs to get over not being in the movie. Yeah, it would have been cool if he had been in it, but from the reboot, handing off to a new TOS character version Nimoy is the best choice. He was there on day 1 with Pike.
I am looking forward to the movie. Any Trek is better than no Trek, and new blood will be great….just look at Many Coto.
I’ve thought from the beginning that the final scene with old Spock ought to include an older Kirk, who somehow managed to avoid being killed in “Generations” thanks to Spock’s work in the past.
Hey, how many Voyager episodes did we have where a member of the crew from the future went back in time to prevent the death of a comrade or the entire crew? It’s Star Trek. These guys mess with the timelines if they feel like it!
#119 “Yes, I got that smarta$$”
I think it’s fair to say that Orci has been cryptic with some of his responses and rightly so…………..I was COMPLIMENTING him with his approach to “engage”ing us at ALL!!
But, I can hear the love in your response so I know you’re not trying to be confrotational…………………
shh, be vewy, vewy quiet…………….the “thought police” are hunting rabids! :)
Roberto,
I hope you will continue to comment on other matters. I have enjoyed your cryptic comment, they usually make me laugh.
122. Xai – November 21, 2007
Hi Xai. You wrote:
“The original Captain Kirk went on to say he “doesn’t care” about not being in the movie, but again stated that asking Nimoy to be in the film without himself was a “stupid business decision.”
Yea, I bet JJ and the Bad Robot people felt all encouraged and complimented about that one.
I don’t think that was such an awful thing for Shatner to say, and I’d be surprised if the Bad Robot people were overly offended by it.
First of all, if what Shatner says is true (about being contacted early on, but then not told anything in the later stages), then he has reason to be miffed, and the Bad Robot people shouldn’t take offense because they should know that they are in the wrong. It just isn’t nice to string someone along and then leave them completely in the dark. How encouraged or complimented should he feel if they have truly teased him early on, but now gone ahead without him, and without even notifying him?
Second, JJ himself said that they are working to get Shatner into the movie. If that is true, then he must think that including Shatner would be wise. And if including him is wise, then not including him is automatically unwise (stupid).
Third, don’t you think your employer would be unwise to go forth without you? Come on, everyone with a little confidence thinks that they can contribute to projects that they helped create and that they are interested in. It’s human nature.
Something weird is going on, and we’re definitely not getting the whole story. The main reason that keeps me hopeful that he’ll be in it is that JJ has not yet stated that he won’t be in it.
I was just on Perez Hilton’s website. Yes, Perez is a goof, and I’m always shaking my head whenever I am silly enough to go on his gossip site…
BUT!!!…
Today he had news posted about Shatner being annoyed about not being in the film. I thought, with how snarky everyone is on that site in the “comments” section, that people would be screaming up and down about Shatner being foolish for wanting to be in the film. But instead, everyone took Shatner’s side!!! Comments like “he is a living God!” and “are the producers nuts!” kept coming up and up. Everbody was saying he should be in the film. I think its safe to say the majority of these people were not Die Hard Trek fans like we have on this site.
The fact is, the masses want Shatner in the film. No one cares if he died in a previous film, cause Trek is a sci-fi & fantasy film. People to go movie like this to escape and see magic happen. What could be more magical then seeing Shatner as Kirk again?
66.
Shatner’s hair looks fuller cuz of prosthetics…not weight loss. But he does look Kirkish.
128. Kirok Fan – November 21, 2007
First, we don’t know what has been said or negotiated between the producers and Shatner. He’s the only one talking. I don’t know how JJ feels about anything, I was responding with a bit of sarcasm to another poster.
Plus, they didn’t cast him, so he’s not due any explainations and neither are we.
And yes, I want my employer to adore my work, but Shatner’s not an employee, he’s an independent contractor… an actor. He should know that no part’s a lock.
I understand disappointment, but we don’t need a weekly report on how he expressed his disappointment this time. Nothing has changed.
I don’t dislike the man, but he helped kill his own primary character for a large amount of $$ and is now miffed that the current production company is not using him.
I’ve only read to Post #33 so far, and I got a nitpicky little question: Didn’t Kirk actually die by getting blasted out of the engineering section of Enterprise B into space?
It’s been years since I’ve seen “Generations,” and mercifully, I only saw it once; but as I understand and remember it, the Nexxus was actually Picard’s and only Picard’s “reality.”
Hep me out here!
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista
And I agree: Shatner looks like he’s losing weight. Hmmm….
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
#133 The Vulcanista “Shatner looks like he’s losing weight”
Well, sure………………………where could you go, but down??”
#134: LOL!
However, after what I saw at a local hospital the other day, you’d be absolutely amazed at how much weight a human can gain and still be technically “alive.” Shatner’s positively svelte in comparison! :-)
Happy Thanksgiving!
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
#72: I’m pretty sure you’re quoting from the end of “Mirror, Mirror”, not “The Paradise Syndrome”.
Shatner does look a bit irritated at the end of the video, and I think he has good reason to be. Look at this from his perspective.
He’s been involved with Star Trek, on and off, for over 40 years. Now the new kids in town, JJ Abrams & his team, are essentially taking it over. Shatner has talks with them, they make public statements indicating that they’d like to have him in the movie, and then… nothing.
His best friend Leonard Nimoy is announced to be in the film.
The Kirk part is recast with a younger actor.
Parts of Kirk’s backstory are apparently being revealed without any of his input.
And, to top it all off, every few weeks he has to make ANOTHER one of these videos talking about how he’s isn’t in the film (This one makes what? 5?)
Frankly, I’d be a bit irritated at this point too.
Re:131. Xai – November 21, 2007
“I understand disappointment, but we don’t need a weekly report on how he expressed his disappointment this time. Nothing has changed.
I don’t dislike the man, but he helped kill his own primary character for a large amount of $$ and is now miffed that the current production company is not using him. ”
Even though he had a part in the horrid “Generations” decision, I think he is a unique position, hence his feelings. Unlike many actors from 60’s TV classics or cult favorites who never returned to the role after their series were cancelled (thus could place distance between their life and the role), Shatner had the Animated Series, 7 movies (and books) crossing several generations, so it is reasonable to feel the way he does about the current movie situation.
I mean, the guy is one of the series foundations and still the “face” of the franchise (along with Nimoy). That’s a huge thing in a business where endless roles are accepted, then tossed on the way to the next one, with hardly any acknowledgement of the former job to history. Its like having a part of your life removed or altered without your approval.
Being asked the same question over and over again would annoy me, too. Maybe this explains his face at the end of the interview.
JJ should come out of hiding and give offical word on this and accept his beating afterwards :)
Then we could all go on with our lives with our without Star Trek.
#3: You’re right. Seems as if he was forced to praise the movie ;-)
Okay, so he isn’t in the movie.
But the real question is…
Does William Shatner think the new CGI shuttlebay looks fake? I want to know if he thinks it needs more contrast.
hey people, cant you see hes more skinny? he´s losing weight hes gona be in the movie.
#113
No comment possibly is the best comment.
#124
- I bet I know why hes not in it. He’s such a pain in the arse. –
Thanks for sharing this evaluation by providing such a meaningful insight into your articulacy.
#141
STXI: Stretch, Skin & Bones – The Academy Years.
To start, Kirk is one of my favorite characters of all time. I know a lot of what comes out of the Shat’s mouth is sarcastic dry humor a lot of people dont pick up on. I honestly wish he would stop complaining. He’s the moron that decided to be in Generations to kill himself off. Dont do the crime if you cant do the time. He shouldnt expect someone to bail him out of a stupid decision he made.
A lot of people say “use him from an alternate timeline” That would be just as poor as using Riker on the last episode of Generations. Rikers gut was hanging to his knees and was obviously much much older. I dont want to see the same mistake for this movie.
Last episode of Enterprise I mean…..OOPS!
How much you want to bet that Shatner is in the movie and this is all just a publicity stunt?
re:145 Whoop
“How much you want to bet that Shatner is in the movie and this is all just a publicity stunt?”
1.21 Quatloos
strange… Orci being coy, shatner.com being coy, no real confirmation from JJ, shatners weight loss and that look at the end of the video… hmmm this is all very strange and sneaky.
Im just waiting for official confirmation from Mr Abrams until then ill speculate and have ever reason too….
Anthony… how about a new poll? do you think this shatner business is a con?
All they need to do is write a frame where once Spock returns to the future, we all see that Kirk is ALIVE in that new history, and still captain of the Enterprise, and people will friggin’ love it.
no-one is going to stop being suspicious about this whole shatner business until we get official confirmation from JJ himself.
However it does seem weird to me that everyone associated with Shatner is being quite coy about this whole thing… and that there are some very interesting coincidences: EXAMPLE
Mr Orci is playing it cool… too cool, no confirmation from JJ as of yet, Shatners weight loss and rejuvenated looks, shatner.com’s coy remarks etc etc
it all seems abit weird to me and i for one demand confirmation so we can all move on!
149= “it all seems abit weird to me and i for one demand confirmation so we can all move on! ”
That’s not gonna happen and people just need to get used to it. IF they confirmed he was in the movie, that would spoil one of the biggest surprises and reveal the ace in the hole.
IF they said he will not be in the movie, they would have to deal with the negative outcry for another YEAR, while the conspiracy theorists would still cry “diversion!”.
To confrim anything is a true Kobayashi Maru for the people behind the scenes. An official “no comment” is all you’re going to get from Roberto or JJ and it’s totally understandable.
And another thing, if you’re a TOS fan and you don’t have the new HD DVDset…get it! The show looks like it was shot in technicolor, its absolutely gorgeous. Even the standard definition side looks fantastic. Happy Thanksgiving all.
#145, 146
“In that case, we have nothing to lose
by pursuing our present course.”
look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2JeKeVynbY&feature=related
#113 Cryptic teases are all well and good. Answers are better. The script is locked so you all know with certainty whether older Kirk is in the movie. The only possible unfinished business would be talking to Shatner if he’s in it; and telling the fans with certainty which way you swing (in a non car-key swapping way lol).
Bottom line is everyone enjoys your interaction here. Don’t let a comment on another BB (which has nothing to do with your friends here) put you off interacting with is. One could parallel this whole Shatner frustration a bit like watching Lost. Clues are given but you don’t really get any genuine answers til your head starts hurting. Right now it feels like season 2 of Lost for most of us ;)
“We’re debating a vaccuum!” “Lets go find some answers!” 100 Qautloos for the first person to guess the episode.
I love the big surprise the producers are preparing for those that firmly believe Shatner will end up in the movie.
When they go on opening day to watch, SURPRISE! SHATNER IS NOWHERE TO BE SEEN!
Seriously, I think we are all getting tired of this. I love Shatner and I love the old Kirk, but it would be contrived to bring him to this piece. Let it be. Old Spock is good enough for the passing of the torch to the new cast.
#153
Is the script locked, though?
I know that the writers cannot write any new material during the strike. However, my understanding is that the director can use material from any scripts that were written, including previous drafts and alternate drafts.
So, I think JJ might still have some flexibility in terms of what he chooses to do.
#154 Salvador
Since Old Spock is in the movie, I don’t see why it would be so contrived to have Old Kirk in the movie, especially since it apparently involves time travel and the creation of an alternate timeline.
Unless you know more about the script than the rest of us do…
#113 not nearly as painful to deal with as Transformers was! :p
#155 Those were JJ’s words to TV Guide (if i remember correctly) It was he who said the script was locked not moi ;)
For Kirok Fan
http://community.tvguide.com/blog-entry/TVGuide-Editors-Blog/Ausiello-Report/New-Trek-Flick/800027107
QUOTE Abrams, meanwhile, tells me that the current writers’ strike is not affecting production. “Our script is locked,” he says. END QUOTE
Shat in the movie? There’s been subspace chatter about it for months…
They could always CGI the sideburns…
#157
So abusing him is going to keep him communicating?
Have you ever have a blockbuster movie made?
#155
Yes, it is permissable to use material from previous drafts of a screenplay. So, if they had written scenes or Mr. Shatner in a version prior to the strike, they can film those scenes during the strike and edit in during post production
In a new timeline anything is possible.
#50
“I simply can’t understand why he is not wanted”
I agree.
The fact is that William Shatner wants to be in this film + the writers and director are at best (it seems they haven’t contacted him in quite some time) doing nothing more than stringing him (and us) along with cryptic statements about his potential involvement.
At the worst they have shut him out of the production and don’t have the respect to tell the man of their decision.
Why do they owe him an answer? Because Shatner and Star Trek are a unique case. It’s not like Shatner is simply an actor who lost a role. The man (just voted as one of the most iconic characters ever ) as Kirk is part of American pop culture. He should at the very least be given a call to explain the situation.
If he is not in the film (I still think there is a shot he ends up in the film) it is simply because they don’t want him. End of story.
Every major character in the ST universe has died at one point or another only to be brought back at a later date. Leonard Nimoy’s character was given an entire film of his own to come back from the dead. Yet he is making statements that Shatner can’t be in the film because his character died. I don’t get it?
I am not a professional writer, yet I could think of about a million different scenarios to bring Kirk back. Especially when you consider that time travel, alternate time lines and the “Guardian of Forever” are going to be involved.
Perhaps the new writers think of Kirk in the same manner that Rick Berman thought of Kirk? Perhaps they don’t want their creations to be overshadowed by the original?
Maybe I am off base in my assumptions. If I am I apologize for my ignorance, but something just doesn’t seem right about this entire scenario.
Why doesn’t Roberto Orci (or anyone else involved) simply say that Shatner is not in the film?
- Is it that difficult for them to write a part for Shatner as Kirk in a time travel film?
- Why did J.J. Abrams go through the trouble of meeting with Shatner?
- Why is Shatner saying that he is not in the film + that it is a poor busines decision every 20 minutes?
I hope they can still (at this late date) find a way to get Shatner in the film. Kirk deserves a better ending than he got in Generations.
There is zero downside to having Shatner in this film.
While checking out the Rocket Man video on YouTube that was posted earlier, I cam accross another entry that is even more appropriate to this thread:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJHANrzMSlk&feature=related
#163, You state the obvious!!!! The core fans WANT Shatner in this movie.
Shatner has been and will ALWAYS be the “Face of the Star Trek Franchise” — the same way that:
Derek Jeter is the “Face of the New York Yankees”
Steve Nash is the “Face of the Phoenix Suns”
Superman is the “Face of the Justice League”
John Lennon was the “Face of the Beatles”
Michael Jordan, the “Face of the Chicago Bulls”
Robert Plant, the “Face of Led Zeppelin”
Chris Berman, the “Face of ESPN”
David Beckham, the “Face of the LA Galaxy”
Mary Louise Parker, the “Face of Weeds”
James Gandolfini, the “Face of the Sopranos”
Adrian Grenier, the “Face of Entourage”
Frank Sinatra the “Face of the Rat Pack”
Believe, I can go on and on.
Happy & Healthy Thanksgiving Day to ALL!!!!
Step Off Topic – -
Happy Thanksgiving to the Trekmovie.com Community.
I can’t believe the number of people on this site who genuinely believe that the producers’ are planning a surprise Shatner cameo! He’s not in it, this is so obvious!
#161 but he isn’t communicating. A few smart ass asides that don’t tell anybody anything. I wouldn’t really expect him to- but it would be better if he stopped taking the piss by posting silly little coments and then patting himself on the back for how smart he is.
# 158. dalek – November 22, 2007
Hi Dalek.
You’re definitely right that JJ said the script was locked. Thanks for the quote.
Still, there are two ways to interpret what he said.
The first is that the script will not change at all and they will film the most recent script exactly as is. I’m not sure that he really meant it this way.
The second is that the Star Trek movie will be able to go ahead despite the strike because the script is locked (finished). If this is all that he meant by “locked,” then the decision about Shatner could still up in the air. In other words, it is at least possible that when he said “locked,” he meant that he has an approved and completed script, although he might still make changes by augmenting it with parts from other versions. Notice that the quote you offered is in direct response to the issue of the strike.
I think that the second interpretation is at least as likely as the first. Furthermore, the comment Orci made about the Shatner decision possibly waiting until filming is underway supports the second interpretation, I think.
I’m still hoping…
#161 and also! by your definition we are only allowed to comment if we’ve released a Movie!? Get real, that must be the dumbest thing i’ve ever read!
#168 Captain Fantastic
You stated:
“I can’t believe the number of people on this site who genuinely believe that the producers’ are planning a surprise Shatner cameo! He’s not in it, this is so obvious!”
If it is so obvious, then answer these questions:
- Why haven’t the producers said that he isn’t in it?
- Why did JJ say that they were trying to work Shatner into the movie?
- Why did Orci come on here and echo what JJ said (that they want Shatner in)?
Everyone who is taking the position that Spock can go back in time to warn Kirk about how he dies must be aware of the little thing called the TEMPORAL PRIME DIRECTIVE, right? Do you really think that Spock, of all people, would violate it for personal gain? I don’t think so.
The success of this movie depends on captivating a new audience, not Shatner being in it. If you think otherwise then please stay in your parent’s basement and don’t see the movie. I’m not saying I’m against Shatner being in it for any reason at all, but the supposition that the movie will fail/succeed without him in it reprehensible. This isn’t just about making us happy as lifelong fans anymore, it’s about everyone.
I find it hard to believe that Bill Shatner would be this unprofessional.
Knowing JJ’s guerilla approach to marketing I wouldn’t be surprised if Shatner actually is in the movie and this whole thing is just a ploy to get up awareness and then at the last minute they can show that the joke was on us ;-)
173 –
Do you honesly think that major characters in Star Trek don’t break the Prime Directive all the time in the interests of drama? It’s a rule that’s made to be broken, that’s the essence of its dramatic function. You show how important this situation is by showing a character driven to break the rules.
Plus, it is personally totally in character for Spock to blow the rules off for the sake of his friend(s). That’s the plot of “The Menagerie” – and remember what Kirk said to Spock at the end of Star Trek III when asked “You came back for me. Why?” That’s the nature of these men’s friendship – and that is what TOS, which is what this film aspires to be, is ultimately about.
You’re spot on about the idea that whether Shatner is in the film or not matters to its potential success though. It could be a brilliant success or total failure artisitically or finanicaly both with and without his presence.
I’d like him to be in it because I like the actor in the role and would take great pleasure in seeing him play it one more time. I make no greater claim for it than that, although I appreciate others have.
#173
Wow.
The Temporal Prime Directive???
Spock, of all people, WOULD violate it. Of course. Spock is governed by logic. Spock is not a slave to some absurd universal principle.
If you need proof, all you need to do is watch the movie called “Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home.” It’s a movie about the end of the world. An alien probe has come from somewhere deep in outer space and is visiting Earth to make contact with humpback whales, which have gone extinct in the future. Spock comes up with an ingenious and logical plan. He suggests that the crew could travel back in time and get some humpback whales so that the whales can respond to the alien probe that is destroying the Earth.
Now here is the question:
Does Spock stay true to the TEMPORAL PRIME DIRECTIVE and allow the Earth to be destroyed.
Just watch the movie and find out.
#171
I was refering to the fact that you giving him a hard time over Transformers. They did a good job IMO. Anyone who makes a sucessful blockbuster is doing a good job.
Take it easy, and stop being confrontational. That’s a sure fire way to make certain he doesn’t communicate.
To be honest, I think it’s great he’s on here giving us what he can – or yes, even what he wants to give, however cryptic. It’s better than silence, and I bet it keeps you coming back to check.
For me, it’s great to be able to interact with anyone working on this fascinating new project.
Be patient and try to be polite.
#172 Kirok Fan
1) The producers haven’t stated that he’s not in the film to drum up precisely the level of speculation and expectation about the film that it has caused. Similarly, that is why Orci came on this site and said that they still ‘wanted’ Shatner in it.
2) Wanting Shatner in it doesn’t mean that Shatner is, or ever will be in it.
3)The video posted above, featuring Shatner again explicitly denying that he is NOT involved in the film, coupled with the general tone of the video and the fact that he looks genuinely fed up because he is either not involved or does not want to have to keep denying involvement with the project because he’s sick of, it is convincing evidence in itself that he is not involved with the new film.
I don’t get it.
People are saying it’s shat’s ego that got him into this mess (ie. death scene in Generations), and that he should just accept his fate.
What about Nimoy? Was that ego? His death scene was much…ahhhh… better. I would assume he read the script before he signed on.
The only difference being, I guess, is that II and III were released fairly close to each other, and maybe it was a planned “mini-arc”.
Regardless, I don’t buy that Shat’s ego got him into this mess. It’s science fiction. Anything is possible…
If he isn’t in the film, it’s a business decision, not a story problem.
#178 Captain Fantastic
You didn’t answer the question about why JJ said they were trying to work Shatner into the movie.
I think JJ said that because he meant it, and if he meant it, then I’m sure he has the means to make it happen.
Are you suggesting that JJ told the fans that he was trying to work Shatner into the movie even though he really didn’t want to work Shatner into the movie? Wouldn’t that make JJ a liar? I doubt JJ would begin his guardianship of Star Trek by lying to the fans about getting Shatner involved.
I think Abrams & Co. may have written two alternate endings, in advance of a pending writer’s strike; they deliberately haven’t signed The Shat for reasons of plausible deniability on both sides.Once they are done with the principal photography, they can sign him, and call him in under the auspices of doing some scene reshoots, eh? Trying to read the tea leaves of Shatner’s sideburns ain’t gonna reveal anything. He could drop out of sight for two weeks and let them grow in, shoot for a few days, and chop them off again, and no one would be the wiser. The makeup department certainly could do some simple prosthetic work. Or, he could appear au naturel, the reasoning being that if the Veridian III outcome were altered and Kirk was still alive in the 24th century, he’s still retired from Starfleet and spends most of his time playing golf and chasing septugenarian green space cooter around the shuffleboard deck of a space cruise liner. ;-)
I think he’ll be in it.
#180 Kirok Fan
I’m not saying that JJ is a liar: it has already been stated by Shatner that JJ meet up with him. We can interpret this JJ trying to get him into the movie. He may still ‘want’ Shatner in the movie. However, I still don’t think Shatner is in the movie and JJ does not necessarily have the means to make this happen.
Reasons for it not happening may be the following: maybe Shatner asked for too much money or was not happy simply with a cameo (the latter Shatner has actually stated himself, he wants to have an significant part in the script if he were to reprise the role) or maybe the producers and script writers decided that trying to work Shatner into the plot and reverse the outcome of Generations was simply not a good business decision because it would unnecessarily complicate the script to such an extent that Shatner’s return at the end would be meaningless to cinemagoers who haven’t seen the previous film and would perhaps be unintelligible to them. It would be meaningless to them precisely because they may not have seen Generations, which is likely. It is not good business sense to include an ‘impact’ cameo at the end of the film which packs the most emotional punch if over half the audience do not understand its real significance; the non-Trekers will rightly feel short-changed and excluded. It will thus not do great at the box office, which is what everyone wants, especially the director and producers.
Plus, a number of people are suggesting that Shatner is lying. Surely this is no worse than JJ lying, and anyway, it Shatner is lying, it is almost certainly at the behest of the producers and/or directors. That is JJ may be asking him to lie. So the lying thing doesn’t work either.
#148 Dave- Yeah! That’s what I was thinking. Since they’re doing a time-line thing AGAIN, why not? You have orig. Spock and Kirk together again, with Spock having to reconcile- for a short time- seeing what could have been. The scene would be a priceless moment- well, a Yesterday’s Enterprise moment, but cool nevertheless.
#163 In a new timeline anything is possible.
You’re a very bad man Jerry Siendfeld
Hey Captain Fantastic…
You wrote these two comments:
168. Captain Fantastic – November 22, 2007
“I can’t believe the number of people on this site who genuinely believe that the producers’ are planning a surprise Shatner cameo! He’s not in it, this is so obvious!”
182 Captain Fantastic – November 22, 2007
“it Shatner is lying, it is almost certainly at the behest of the producers and/or directors. That is JJ may be asking him to lie. So the lying thing doesn’t work either.”
In comment 182, you seem to be agreeing that there might be a conspiracy going on here, something you denied in comment 168.
I will disagree with you about whether JJ has the means to make a Shatner appearance happen. JJ is adept at bringing dead people back to life, as he proved on Alias. The leaked storyline also provides an EASY way to BBK. And Shatner wants in! As far as the audience not understanding the movie, I think you’re selling them short. Besides, all they would need to know would be that Old Kirk is/was dead, and that Shatner used to play Captain Kirk.
If money is the only issue, then I believe it will be worked out.
that look on his face doesn’t mean anything. he has that expression even when he’s mildly amused, not just when he’s annoyed. the man has a very mobile face. but he looks darned good in the vid!
#185 Kirok Fan – Agreed on the payday issue. If the production budget rumors are within the vicinity of the ballpark, I’m sure they could afford Shatner’s paycheck. None of the other principals – with the exception of Nimoy, and say, possibly Bana or Ryder (to a certain degree) – would command a monster chunk of coin for this project.
#185 Kirok Fan
No, I didn’t agree with you about there being a conspiracy. I said that arguing that JJ couldn’t lie about this isn’t a good enough reason to argue that Shatner is in it, because for Shatner to be in it, you are allowing for Shatner to lie, most likely at the behest of the production, (that is JJ), which is as good as JJ lying anyway!
The analogy of JJ bringing someone back from the dead during the run of a successful tv series which has a core body of viewers is different from JJ doing the same thing in a movie thats mission is to refresh an ailing franchise by bringing in viewers who no or very little knowledge of previous Star Trek adventures. I believe that bringing Shatner back at the end would be too gimmicky and would not provide a satisfactory ending to a film who’s aim is to bring in new viewers and is simply to exclusive. Unlike Shatner, I think it would be a bad business decision to put him in the film.
Furthermore we don’t know for certain that the Guardian of Forever etc is in the film or that the plot involves anything to do with rescuing Kirk etc. That is all rumour which, as far as I am aware, has not been officially confirmed by those involved in the production.
Also, I only cited money as a potential issue. It may not have been an issue at all. We don’t know why the decision not to put him in it was taken.
#188
Hey Captain Fantastic!
I have to say that lying about Shatner not being in the movie when he really is is a lot different than lying about trying to get him in the movie when you never wanted him in the first place.
The fans will accept and even love a lie of the first kind. If we find out very late in production that this was all a ruse, and that Shatner is in it, no one will be upset with JJ. On the other hand, if the fans find out that JJ was just telling us that he was working to get Shatner in the movie when he really wasn’t even planning to contact Shatner, many of the fans will be mighty irritated.
I also think you are mistaken to claim that this movie’s aim is to bring in new viewers. That is only half right. No doubt JJ wants to bring in new viewers. However, they have been quite outspoken in their desire to also create something great for the dedicated fans out there. Hence, their decision to respect what is considered canon. And on the same note, remember Star Trek IV? It was the most successful of the TOS movies, and appealed to the most non-fans. But even so, at the end there was a segment that didn’t really fit with the rest of the movie – the part where Kirk is given his punishment for breaking Starfleet regulations. That scene did a beautiful job of tying up loose ends from previous movies. I see no reason why a similar thing cannot be done in the upcoming movie.
Here’s the thing regarding “Abrams wanting to bring in new viewers”. At the peak of TOS, or any of the incarnation for that matter — either you LOVED Star Trek or HATED it. Back in 60’s on NBC or even early syndication for TOS — it was about the CORE fans — not the casual fan, in truth I doubt there are many casual fans. If Abrams is trying to bring in new viewers, he’s making a HUGE mistake. If people did not like Star Trek in the 60s, 70’s 80’s 90′ etc — there is nothing that can be done to make them like it now. What kept ST alive and brought to the big screen over the decades was the fans, Star Trek conventions, ralleys, etc. All you need to do is any Google on ST Fandom to verify my statements. How many of you since this web site started are NOT hard core fans? Conversely how many of you out there consider yourselves to be “Casual” fans?
# Kirok Fan
Yeah, but I didn’t say JJ had lied. Shatner said that he had met with JJ, we can assume that they must have discussed getting him in the film! So, JJ didn’t lie when he said he tried. Also, we can interpret JJ getting him into the film as JJ working alongside the script writers to find a feasible way of getting old kirk in. I am also not saying this didn’t happen.
The whole point of having a younger cast and exploring Kirk’s younger years is so that the film can free itself of refering to events that happened in other films and series. That’s the reason why this period was chosen: it appeals to fans without having to violate canon and appeals to new viewers because they don’t need prior knowledge of anything else that has happened in Star Trek. Its a compromise designed to revitalise the franchise. Thus, it doesn’t logically follow that the conclusion of this new film will directly relate to another film (Generations) , it negates the whole point of Star Trek XI.
And the movie’s aim must be to bring in new viewers! It was a lack of viewers that led to Enterprise being cancelled and the dire ratings that Voyager got as the series progressed. Paramount are investing a lot of money in this which won’t be anywhere near recouped if the film is not seriously appealing to non-fans.
Roberto Orci could end the speculation in a heartbeat. He knows who is and who isn’t written for in that script.
His silence says to me that Shat is in the film.
I fall on the side of those who say tha Shat is in!
#191
Probably right. But even if Abrams will reach a new target group (and he‘s certainly up to do that); a public that is just casually interested in ST and wants to watch the movie just for entertainment – then it would be especially important to give them a possibility to relate. Those new viewers may not know much about ST, but if anything they know Shatner as the face of ST, they know him as Capt. Kirk. If he’s in, the connectivity of STXI in view of the hardcore fans AND the possible new audience will be backed up.
I’m sick of hearing him saying: “That doesn’t make good business sense to me!” and similar. It’s a film. It’s supposed to be based on a good story with good characters. You don’t (well, you shouldn’t) just write or re-write a story based on whether you think you may be able to bring in a bit more money one way or the other. It’s so sad when people judge things purely on how much money can be squeezed out of it regardless of the outcome. I realise of course that that’s what happens anyway, but you shouldn’t be so blatantly obvious about it.
Could it be that after meeting Mr. Shatner, J.J. decided
he just does’nt have it anymore? * gasp!
The Shat may no longer be buff
But he’s still got all “the right stuff”
JJ doesn’t appear to want him in
The movie, which is really a sin
Without Shat the film’ll be nothing but fluff!
#195 non-fanatic
I totally agree with you, it shouldn’t purely be about business and earning money etc, its just my gut feeling is that Paramount are putting quite a lot of money into this, and whilst they of course want to please the fans, they also want to make back the money they’e spent, with a hefty profit (which is fair enough). I really hope we’ll get a great, classic, TOS adventure which is exciting, interesting and reminds about why we like Trek in the first place!
166. Sam Belil
Please, don’t try to speak for the ‘core’ fans. I’ve been a fan of Trek as far back as I remember…my earliest memories of it are likely when I was 4 years old. I watched the original series EVERY Week until they stopped airing the episodes in my area in my early twenties. That doesn’t mean I want Shatner in the movie for the sake of it. If it were to serve the story and not betray the established continuity, then sure…but not if it means having to use half of the new movie to resurrect a dead character. That’s a dis-service to the new actors, and quite frankly a really bad idea. This is a chance to start over and invest ourselves in the original characters again…not the original actors, but the original characters.
Didn’t Bones tell you? “You’re dead, JIm!”
Live with it Billy boy (no pun intended).
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but it stuck out huge to me when I watched this recent video… in the October 19th Shatnervision video, he mentions that it’s late October and he’s not heard anything, and they start filming in November. In this most recent video he says he talked to Nimoy who told him filing had begun, to which he says I didn’t know that.
Not proof, but a possible slip up?
I’m good either way honestly, I just feel like we’re not hearing the whole story… I think he’s more involved than he claims to be, even if just on a consultant level.
VOODOO #164
You bring up many great points.
Well ya know, the Shat is providing his time for the new project. Even though he isn’t in it, which can be a selling point… weirdly. I for one would like to thank th good ole Shat for his support and the funny War Craft advert… nice work Shat baby! Still got it. :)
Mr Orci
Correct me if I’m wrong, but If the script is “locked” as you say. Wouldn’t you already know the answer to the Shatner question?
Why be so cryptic about it?
If Shatner is the key to some type of major plot point I can understand your silence, but if Shatner is not wanted on the film why don’t you simply say it?
I would also like to add that I feel (as do many others) that this film will not be complete without the return of William Shatner as an alive and well Captain Kirk.
#199 — ….which means we’re roughly the same age, as I go as far back with TOS as you do. I was just stating my opinion not trying to speak for anyone else . No one including myself has stated that Shatner should be in the film for the sake of it. I’m assuming that there are some smart and talented people writing a great story. Having said that there is no doubt in my mind that a great story can and should include Mr. Shatner. The original Captain James T. Kirk is as big a pop-culture icon as anyone else. Again as I stated in a prior post, imagine for a second the new movie featuring old Kirk(Shatner)/Young Kirk(Pine) and ONLY young Spock being played by Quinto — Can you tell me that there would not be a similar uproar if there were no Nimoy in this movie playing Old Spock?????? Again (just my opinion) — very few franchises have been as FAN DRIVEN as Star Trek — and I will stick to my guns (and I could be wrong) that the majority of core fans want Shatner in this film. I have been participating in this web site since virtually the beginning, the passion that I see (regardless of how we may respectfully agree/disagree with eachother) — is a passion that can only be generated by the core STTOS fans. I also stand by my statements that the movie incarnations as well NG, DS9, Enterprise and Voyager came to exist because of the core fan base!!!!
re:174
“I find it hard to believe that Bill Shatner would be this unprofessional.”
He was so unprofessional as to compliment the director, etc. and say they would make a good movie.
Confidence that I don’t share, but I thought it was big of him to say it.
204. Camaro 09 – November 22, 2007
“Correct me if I’m wrong, but If the script is “locked” as you say. Wouldn’t you already know the answer to the Shatner question?
Why be so cryptic about it?”
Why do a few of you think you are owed an answer? They don’t have to tell us anything. I wouldn’t… why let out secrets?
Un believable
#206 Stanky
The unprofessional part is where he referred to the decision as “stupid”.
I am curious…. To the Kiroks and Iowagirl, VOODOO, Shatner _fan and the like.
If you found out with 100% certainty that William Shatner would not be in this movie… what would you do..if anything?
I’ll still see the movie, but it’s doubtful that the film would make any money from me. There are other ways of seeing a movie. For example, I can just wait until a friend rents the DVD.
But what we will do isn’t really the point. For the most part, the people here seem to have disliked Generations quite a bit. But did they do anything about it? Probably not.
Most of the people who want Shatner in the movie are not trying to make threats – they are trying to help. They want the movie to be good, unlike Generations, and they think that the movie will be better, and more satisfying, with Shatner in it. They are expressing their hopes and frustrations, and yes, they are trying to exert any influence they might have so that the movie will be a better one.
What will we do if Shatner’s not in the movie? We’ll be really disappointed, just like we were with Generations when Kirk was squished to death by a bridge — Killed because Picard didn’t think to exit the Nexus a day earlier.
Picard didn’t want to f*ck up the time line by going any further into the past then was necessary .
#21 “by going any further into the past then was necessary”
That is a weak argument, at best…..it ends up that the script for Generations, as a whole, was pretty gawdawful…..and the blunt truth is that…if an outsider had submitted that story to Paramount, they would have been laughed out of the room…..but when it is written by Braga + Moore….WELL……of course it’s immediately embraced, accepted and put into production……nepotism at it’s worst!!!!
Somebody in-house at the studio should have had the balls to tell these two “geniuses” that the script stunk on ice!!!
Um, with all this talk about not letting Shatner in, I haven’t seen it said anywhere as to why Shatner agreed to the death scene in “Generations” in the first place. (Could be it’s there somewhere but I never came across it.) Did he want out? If he wants so badly to be involved, why did he agree to that at the time? (It looks like he phazered himself in the foot.) Sorry. Bad pun.
It’s just that I don’t remember seeing any press on that. Maybe I missed the newsbreak…
Maybe it was a little short-sighted of him because now everyone says “he can’t be in any more movies because…” — (wait for it)
“He’s dead, Jim.”
kg
#211 trektacular
Do you honestly believe that makes sense?
Picard was already messing with the timeline by attempting to re-do his showdown with Soran. What’s a few more minutes?
Even Moore and Braga have admitted that it makes no sense. Too bad they didn’t fix Kirk’s shot-in-the-back death with an ending in which he lives, rather than the ending where the bridge squishes him.
#213 Katie G.
Well, I’m sure that one reason Shatner agreed to do the death scene in Generations was because he was led to believe that there would not be any more movies about the TOS characters.
It wasn’t so much that he wanted out, as it was that the TOS cast were being pushed out by Paramount, and replaced by the TNG cast and movies following the TNG characters.
Everyone involved in creating the story for Generations blew it.
It’s just a movie guys, and one I happen to like. Get a grip, jeez.
Kirk’s story was never well written, he never had a real story arc.
Imagine Rocky Balboa dying from a heart-attack before he could fight Apollo.
Imagine Frodo falling off a bridge before reaching Mount Doom.
Imagine Luke Skywalker being shot in the back before he could fight Darth Vader…
This would be the chance to give Kirk his story arc. Otherwise we would all know that he will fall off a bridge every time we see him.
Shatner APPROVED of dying in ST:Generations after it was pitched to him by Moore and Braga.
I guess now you could say he’s suffering from die-ers remorese….
#209
Totally agree to Kirok Fan (210) – and I, too, want to stress that it’s not that important what we’re gonna do in December 2008; it’s important what we are doing RIGHT NOW. The anti-Shatner posters say they will like the film, not matter what. IMO, they cannot know whether they will like it until they see it. Neither can we; we can just assume that we wouldn’t like it because one of the conditions precedent to make genuine TOS happen would not have been fulfilled. Hence, we are trying to make a difference in the run-up because we feel we have a plausible reason to do so.
Personally, I don’t think that this film will have any significance and connectivity in terms of established ST lore, the TOS spirit, without having Shatner as old Kirk in it. And that’s why I definitely would not line up for the film, if I knew he’s not in. As Kirok Fan said, there are other ways of seeing it.
Of course, all evaluations so far are subjective to a certain degree and would have to be backed-up by the film itself.
Why are we Shatner bashers just because we liked Generations?
Again we were lucky to get an extra Trek film with Kirk In Generations.
Trek VI was the final film, Nimoy could’ve done something to prevent that since he had some power at the time but he didn’t. So if you want to blame someone blame him.
#156
It would be contrived because Kirk is dead when Old Spock is alive. Everybody knows that.
Not that I’m against ressurections in Star Trek, but remember: why did Nimoy and De Kelley refused their parts in “Generations”? Because it didn’t serve the story.
Now, we have a script. It is not about Kirk’s ressurection. It has Old Spock in it. It doesn’t (at least in the first drafts) have Old Kirk. Just to throw the character there, without a part that would serve the story, is meaningless — and contrived, because we have to ressurect him first.
Nimoy understands that concept: it is worth it if it serves the story. That’s why he jumped boat in “Generations” (film which, by all accounts, as much as a goodbye to the franchise as this one). Why can’t good ol’ Bill get that accross?
Best,
S.
#222 Salvador
You state:
“Just to throw the character there, without a part that would serve the story, is meaningless — and contrived, because we have to ressurect him first.”
Well, that basically just states that if they use Shatner in a contrived way, then it will be contrived. Obviously that’s true.
Those who want Shatner in the movie aren’t claiming that he should just show up in some weird way that doesn’t make sense. In fact, most of us were so put off by Generations because it didn’t make any sense at all.
Any time you write a script, you do so with a number of parameters in mind to begin with. Who are the characters, and what are the main components that must be addressed? Having an older Kirk should have been one of the ingredients from the get-go (well, they could have done a complete reboot instead, but as soon as they went for Nimoy, Shatner should have been written in). If they had proceeded this way (and they might have), old Kirk showing up would not have been just tacked on or contrived.
If anything was contrived, it was the way they forced Kirk’s death into Generations. They had a completed movie which their test audience didn’t like. At that point they could have given the movie an ending where Kirk lives – it would have been just as plausible and more satisfying. Instead they just re-killed him because they were determined that Kirk must die. In that movie, Kirk’s death feels contrived and just tacked on.
Anyway, Nimoy apparently claimed that the movie would be better with Shatner in it. So when you suggest that Nimoy knows his stuff, you might want to ponder why it is that he said the film would be better with Bill.
Again, if it is a time travel movie with the creation of an alternate timeline, then it’s not contrived at all to have Shatner in the film.
If you can accept new actors faking the characters, it shouldn’t be difficult to accept Mr. Shatner as a living, older Kirk.
Why Mr. Shatner or Mr. Nimoy would want any part of this is more puzzling.
This obsession with Bill Shatner is pretty scary guys.
#216. trektacular – November 22, 2007
“It’s just a movie guys, and one I happen to like. Get a grip, jeez.”
Did you like the parts of the movie that didn’t make sense? Like Soran killing millions of people when he could have just beamed into the Nexus, or flown into it? Oh yeah, what about the part when they say that you can’t fly into it with a ship even though that’s how Soran got into it in the first place?
What about the part where Picard endangers Kirk by taking him to Veridian III at a really dangerous time, instead of a little bit earlier? Even Moore and Braga admit that it makes no sense, and hence, THAT KIRK’S DEATH MADE NO SENSE. Read these quotes:
Regarding some of the oft-mentioned plot discrepancies within the film, Ronald D. Moore commented:
“Our reasoning (and it’s admittedly thin) is that Picard didn’t want to go back any further in time than absolutely necessary since he knows the extreme dangers of unexpected results from any tampering with the timeline. Okay, it’s not much, but there it is.” [13]
Moore and Braga further elaborated on this during the film’s DVD commentary, saying that the question kept coming up and they even asked themselves, “Why would they go back to a point when their life would be in danger? Why not just go back a couple of months or so, find Soran in the bathroom or somewhere and take him out?”
This is all quoted from: :http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Star_Trek_Generations
Actually, I liked parts of Generations a lot. But the stupid parts are so mindblowingly stupid it’s ridiculous that the script ever got approved.
I can’t believe people will consider not going to see the film at the cinema if Shatner’s not in it! For me, its that the character of Kirk is in that is exciting, and I think Pine’s going to do a brilliant job portraying a young Shatner. He looks the part for a start. I am convinced that the script-writers and director are going to invest the film with the feel of TOS, and I can’t wait to see a film like that on the big screen.
#227 Captain Fantastic
The character of Kirk is what we’re concerned about. As it stands now, that character gets squished to death because of Picard’s absurd mental mistake.
Chris Pine’s character is one day going to die because he trusted Picard and Picard led him to a meaningless death. Yes, it was meaningless. Even though Kirk did die saving millions, the death was easily avoidable, and that’s what made it meaningless.
#228 Kirok Fan
Yeah, but even if Kirk is ‘resurrected’ Generations will still exist and it still ‘happened’. Kirk’s death occurred because the producers of the film were greedy and wanted to cash in quick on the end of the Next Generation. Having a cameo of Shatner in this film won’t erase that. I think people need to lighten up a little! Just enjoy the new film and forget about Generations instead of laboriously trying to ‘correct’ that film with this one. That just seems like a massive waste of time. I wan’t particularly upset with how Kirk went out in Generations, no matter how many plot holes there were, and I’m sure there are others weren’t that upset either. If Shatner thought it was a bad idea he shouldn’t have done it. But being preoccupied with that film and trying to correct it because some people didn’t agree with it will be detrimental to the quality and overall success of this new film.
The character of Kirk is going to be in this new film, it doesn’t really have anything to do with his death later on. And what is Spock going to do? Whisper to Kirk that one day in the future he should be careful about jumping on the the bridge in Veridian III. Tying all that into the new film will be a waste of time and would ruin it for me. People have to get over Kirk’s fictional, yes fictional death, and enjoy the new film for what it is. Trust me, Shatner doesn’t want to be in this new film because he is dissatisfied with his character’s death because Shatner could easily have avoided the whole thing in the first place.
- “Yes, it was meaningless. Even though Kirk did die saving millions, the death was easily avoidable, and that’s what made it meaningless.”
We don’t all have the luxury of a heroes death….even ‘heroes’. There were some pretty dumb plot points in Generations, but in a way…the understated death of Kirk is probably one thing they kind of did right. We’re so used to the same tired theatrical conventions of ‘the hero going out in a blaze of glory with guns blazing’ that we simply can’t accept when it doesn’t happen. I was pissed for a few years over how kirk went out, but then as I grew up, matured, lost a few friends to meaningless deaths and recently my Dad, I came to realize that ‘in the end’ it doesn’t matter how we die, it’s how we lived that matters. The character of Kirk lived heroically, and he died in a rather meaningless accident. It can happen to us all, even heroes. In the end, he was just a man….and I think that makes his heroics even greater in hindsight. :)
Honestly, if the only reason why people are excited about this film is because it offers the prospect of correct what some people perceive to be Kirk’s lame death I think that’s a real shame. Because people are missing the real opportunity that the project provides, which is to revitalise the franchise using the characters we know and love, and return to Rodenberry’s original idea of exploring strange new worlds. Getting bogged down is really detrimental as is the whole debate about Shatner. The whole concept of this film provides a fresh start and people just seem to be ignoring it. Yeah, Shatner’s annoyed he’s not in it for whatever reason, but that is seriously distracting people from what is good about this film
#222
- It doesn’t (at least in the first drafts) have Old Kirk. -
Why then did Abrams meet with Shatner at that early stage of production? To tell him that Old Kirk’s NOT in? Highly unlikely in view of the present situation.
#227, (229)
I couldn’t care more about Kirk. This is why I keep on doing what I’m doing. I want to see young Kirk once more on screen. Keep going, Pine! But I cannot stand the thought of seeing this young character‘s brilliant and hopeful beginnings, sharing his dreams, and at the same time having to think of his avoidable and dreadful death. And don’t forget, both timelines, the one showing young Kirk and the one (maybe) showing old Kirk, concern fictional characters. If you decide for yourself to keep these two orders of events apart, you surely will be able to enjoy the film without old Kirk.
#227 Kirok fan
and I don’t agree that because Kirk’s death could be avoid means it lacked meaning. The way Picard managed to drag him out of the nexus was so with the argument that Kirk could once again make a difference, i.e do something which had meaning.
i meant avoided, sorry
#231 Captain Fantastic………Very well said, I concur.
#219 Iowagirl… “Hence, we are trying to make a difference in the run-up because we feel we have a plausible reason to do so.”
based on that quote and other things you have said, does that mean you are using this site to influence the writer(s) you know frequent here? Is that fair to them, your fellow posters or the site owner? That is not a malicious question, just wonder about the effectiveness vs. other things you could try.
#231 Captain Fantastic
I don’t entirely disagree with what you’ve said in comment #231. I’m excited about the movie for all the reasons you’ve mentioned. But they went and got Nimoy to be in it, and so it isn’t really a fresh start. Let’s just say I think that they can do both – they can do what you’ve said, and they can also work Shatner into the movie.
#233 Captain Fantastic
I think you’ve only got it half right here. Certainly Kirk wanted to make a difference. Therefore, his decision to courageously go with Picard to save Veridian III had meaning. His DECISION had meaning. His bravery had meaning. But then the bridge he was on fell and squished him to death. That didn’t have much meaning to it at all – all it meant, really, was that Picard did something stupid – Picard should have taken him back earlier.
If you take Kirk’s death out of that movie, while leaving the rest of it untouched, it’s a much better movie.
#236 Xai
Hi Xai.
I do think that it is fair for Iowagirl to let her feelings be known.
The writers are here to read about people’s feelings about Star Trek. I do believe that is why the forum is here as well – so people can communicate their feelings and their beliefs about Star Trek.
I see nothing wrong with what Iowagirl said. Remember, TOS season 3 exists because of fans that stated their feelings and exerted their influence. Granted, season 3 was weak, but that’s because of the budget and the time slot and Roddenberry getting ticked about the cuts.
#225. New Horizon – November 23, 2007
You wrote:
“This obsession with Bill Shatner is pretty scary guys.”
What obsession? I just happen to have a bit of time on my hands because I am off work on a parental leave – taking care of my little son, Kirk.
I don’t see why anyone would say I’m obsessed.
Star Trek ist fiction, it is a story. It may come to a surprise to some of you, but Star Trek is not real life ;)
If I want to see someone (maybe even a “hero”) die a normal death, I wouldn’t go to a cinema. Movies and stories are over-the-top, they are here to show us an illusion of a fictional world. A drama, an eic story full of action and things that normally do not happen.
So Kirk deserved a hero’s death. His meaningless death in Generations ripped him from his status, it ripped him out of the fictional world, it destroyed the epic fiction.
By bringing him back, he would again have his status and bring the franchise back where it belongs, to the epic science-fiction drama that is an entertaining illusion.
Does anyone remember an interview during the release of Generations with Shatner (probably Letterman or Leno, I don’t remember), where the host said: “So you die in the picture…”
Shat then (hams it up and) replies that he argued against it: “I told them I don’t wanna die!, but they said ‘you die!’, so I die…” Etc.
I got the impression at the time it was the producers who really pushed the death of Kirk, and I’m sure they did, but just imagine how a simple “no” on Shatner’s part would have really altered the Trek universe. I felt then that the TNG film era was hingeing entirely on the handoff between the series, and that TNG and it’s sadly uninteresting characters would never survive the kind of bad writing Generations offered (I guress I was right and wrong there). The point is that as much as I like to blame Shat for signing on to Generations, AT THE TIME it felt like it was the last chance to see any of the TOS cast and “we” would take whatever we could get.
Now of course things look so differant.
Without Kelly (and Doohan) I have no great need to see Shatner at all. The very idea of a true renunion died with Kelly.
I AM jazzed Nimoy is on board, but for hopeful reasons, for the sake of the franchise, etc.
i meant “reunion” there. not sure what a “renunion” is. some kind of foot desease maybe.
202 Camaro is correct.
If the script is “locked” they know the answer to the Shatner question.
The fact that they aren’t saying anything about it suggests to me that they will offer Shatner a cameo role.
I must agree with the people who argue that if they truly didn’t want Shatner they would simply say it.
They have been very “cryptic” in their response to the Shatner question. Again that may be a tip off to Shatner’s involvement.
Lets keep our fingers crossed.
#237 Kirok fan
But they picked Nimoy because his character Spock is still alive! If Shatner’s kirk hadn’t have been killed off, he most probably would be in the film. But he’s dead!
And Nimoy is there partly to sate the fans like us who do not want to see the film completely disconnected from the Star Trek fworld we love. The film is a fresh start: it has no numbers after its title (Its not marketed at Star Trek XI because it is not seen by the producers as a continuation of anything that has gone before) and it has new actors playing the TOS characters at a time in their lives which we have never seen before.
I am glad Shatner will not be in it. I have nothing against the original Captain Kirk, but there is not a place for him in the new movie. The last time we had a resurrection, it was the basis for an entire film! We have seen that. Moreover, the Shat is fat! Please, no fat Star Fleet officers (retired or otherwise). William Shatner is not Star Trek. James Kirk is. “Gallopping around the Cosmos is a game for the young, Doctor.”
238. Kirok Fan – November 23, 2007
I wasn’t asking about her feelings, reread the post.
#236, 238
Exactly, Kirok Fan – Thanks.
Xai, if expressing my feelings means influencing somebody, I’m influencing my fellow posters – so are you. This site is meant for information, for stating opinions and for expressing views as well as feelings. Of course, by expressing my views I hope that Abrams & Orci will factor my voice and the voices of my fellow posters into his decision to put Shatner in. Our opinions reflect a (quite small) percentage of the public, but they still may show the people responsible for STXI what the fan base thinks and feels about this new film. If we stopped doing this, there would be no real relation between ST and its hardcore fans anymore.
I think it’s this relation that you come here for, too.
#245 Closet Trekker – November 23, 2007
You stated:
“The last time we had a resurrection, it was the basis for an entire film! We have seen that.”
Not really. In Generations, the entire crew was resurrected. When Soran destroyed the sun and Veridian III was destroyed, ALL crew members except Picard were killed. Also, in Nemesis, we saw Data in a semi-resurrected state.
You also state:
“I am glad Shatner will not be in it. I have nothing against the original Captain Kirk, but there is not a place for him in the new movie.”
Well, how do you know there is no place for him in the movie? JJ and Orci said they were working on it. Do you know with certainty that their attempts have failed?
You also state:
“Moreover, the Shat is fat! Please, no fat Star Fleet officers (retired or otherwise).”
Are you seriously stating that there would never be any retired fat Star Fleet officers? That strikes me as a bit odd. Anyway, the old and fat attacks are growing old, and, well, fat.
#245 Closet Trekker – November 23, 2007
You stated:
“The last time we had a resurrection, it was the basis for an entire film! We have seen that.”
In my previous post, I forgot to mention that in First Contact, the entire human race is resurrected.
#223 Kirok fan
So, we agree, after all. You say the producers made a mistake by not getting Old Kirk in the movie from the starts. Okay, I’m fine with that. But since they haven’t, I don’t see a way to make Old Kirk fit the story they already have and not sound a bit contrived. They already HAVE the story, and it doesn’t require Old Kirk to work. So, there we go.
I’d love to see Shatner once more in uniform, but, you know, they didn’t want to pursue that, and now, in the middle of the process, it is very hard to make it in a good way. It probably would just spoil an otherwise good movie.
As for Leonard saying the film would be better with Bill in it, you have to remember these guys’ friendship goes waaay back. Bill asked him to say it, he said it. If you remember, Leonard said that while in a convention appearance, alongside Bill. So, it is easy to figure out why he said that.
Best,
S.
245 – “Gallopping around the Cosmos is a game for the young, Doctor.”
Sorry, but half the point of the film is that Kirk is mistaken when he says that. The two hours that follow go out of their way to demonstrate that.
NEWS FLASH
I’ve read an updated article on Startrek.com which is reporting that apparently Captain Kirk is a fictional character! He didn’t really die on Veridian III because that planet also doesn’t exist! Therefore, there is no longer any need to get upset about Generations and we can leave JJ and the rest of the crew to get on a make a brilliant (albeit fictional) film! Fantastic news!
Hey, Cptn. Fantastic!
That’s good, because otherwise Mr. McDowell could be charged with murder. Double murder, in fact, since they recorded two death scenes.
One doubt though: how come Kirk became a 21st century old lawyer? :-P
Best,
S.
251- My point is that William shatner as Captain Kirk is tired. I am ready to see, once again, a young James Kirk fist-fighting and fornicating across the galaxy. Thankfully, it appears that this is where the franchise is going. I never really saw the Star Trek “magic” in the spin-offs, nor was I overly impressed with much of anything after ST II: The Wrath of Khan. As for the “fat” comment, I was only half-joking. Is it unreasonable to assume that, by the 23rd-24th Century, the human race would have resolved the ongoing crisis of obesity? Is replicated food still full of fat? That would not make sense. Unfortunately, Shatner has become too much of a punchline. He was great in the 60’s. In the 80’s, he still had enough left to give us “Khaaaaaaaaaan!”. The truth is, after that, he really looked out of place. You won’t find a much bigger Captain Kirk fan than me, going all the way back to TOS, but it is the character that is most important, not the old and tired actor. The Shat did Kirk great justice in his time, but he has been the face of that character for 41 years! Let it go.
#253. Salvador Nogueira
hey salvador, that’s weird, I am actually in training to become a lawyer…
252. Captain Fantastic – November 23, 2007
NEWS FLASH
NO Way!!!!
All this has been about a fictional character? I thought the whole site was about a Canadian actor.
Isn’t this Shatnermovie.com?
# 250. Salvador Nogueira – November 23, 2007
You stated:
I’d love to see Shatner once more in uniform, but, you know, they didn’t want to pursue that, and now, in the middle of the process, it is very hard to make it in a good way. It probably would just spoil an otherwise good movie.
Again, I think they DID want to pursue it. That’s why JJ and Orci have said that they were working on it. Don’t you think they are capable of achieving that goal?
#252
hey, if we can tolorate “intelligent design” then we have to accept that kirk may well not be fictional. “kirk realists” have every right to believe.
besides, everyone said santa wasn’t real. to prove them wrong i hunted down his fat, redsuited ass and killed him. so there.
#256. Xai (blue antennae blowing in the wind…) – November 23, 2007
A canadian actor!!!!????? Let me guess, next you’ll be telling me he has name, like, I don’t know, Bill Shatner! Now, that must be fictional…
# 254. Closet Trekker – November 23, 2007
You wrote: “My point is that William shatner as Captain Kirk is tired. I am ready to see, once again, a young James Kirk fist-fighting and fornicating across the galaxy. Thankfully, it appears that this is where the franchise is going.”
Notice that the people who want to see Shatner in the movie are not complaining about Pine being in the movie. They want the same things you want. However, since the movie appears to involve hopping around through different time periods (at least 3 time periods, with Nimoy, Pine, and a young George Kirk), it seems fitting to include Shatner. We can have the best of both worlds, don’t you see! We can have our Pine and eat our Shatner too.
#29 “Has Bill lost weight?”
I thought that when I saw this clip. His face didn’t look quite so bloated and puffy as previously. Maybe that’s what’s upsetting him so much — he’s gone on a diet for no reason (in his eyes anyway).
#260- I understand. However, you then still have to resolve the issue of Kirk’s death in the Nexus. I did not like Generations or the death of Kirk -the way it was done, but why go down that road again? I can see Spock correcting Kirk’s death if it were done through time travel immediately afterward, but he would know that bringing his friend back in the 24th Century could have a dramatic, and not necessarily positive, effect on the current timeline. I have always liked Spock’s ever-so-human frailties hiding just beneath the surface of his Vulcan lifestyle, but for him to go that far just to save a man who died as bravely as he lived would be too much. Would he sacrifice the outcome of decades worth of Federation history for one man’s golden years? I think not. I do not believe the writers think so, either. I think they gave the appearance of possible interest in including Shatner out of respect for the man’s history with the franchise, but that’s it. If Bill wanted to do Star Trek as late as 2007-2008, he should never have agreed to do Generations, knowing that Kirk would die (that would have spared us all another bad ST movie that we wish could be taken back).
I am out… this “discussion” is a moot point right now.
K guys here’s my vision of a rebooted Enterprise. Have a lot more of this stuff I can put it up if you want to see more. I have a few full star trek comic books including a Star Trek Star Wars crossover where the E blows away a Star Destroyer, drawn out that I was going to submit to Marvel and DC before I got a real job. Copy and paste below. Can’t fit the pages on a scanner so I have to take snap shots.
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z138/bearsturf/P1010695.jpg
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z138/bearsturf/P1010692.jpg
#262
- I can see Spock correcting Kirk’s death if it were done through time travel immediately afterward, but he would know that bringing his friend back in the 24th Century could have a dramatic, and not necessarily positive, effect on the current timeline. I have always liked Spock’s ever-so-human frailties hiding just beneath the surface of his Vulcan lifestyle, but for him to go that far just to save a man who died as bravely as he lived would be too much. –
I would think it more accurate to consider the film‘s far wider scale of possibilities. Not knowing the script means we‘re not able to evaluate if bringing him back in the 24th century would necessarily have a negative effect on the current timeline. You may assume this – but it could be just as well that different timelines tell a different story. Beyond, we don‘t know if bringing him back in the 24th century would be the intention at all – it has been said before that he might be warned or the like, so that he does not fall off that bridge in the first place. There are loads of possibilities.
Finally, Spock‘s ever-so-human frailties made Kirk his best friend and, thus, risk his life for him and save him – the man who in STII died as bravely as he lived.
funny how throughout all of these shat-oriented threads there is nary a mention of a kid named chris pine. i mean, he is kinda like the kirk and all.
i heard rumor that all he may not be canadian, that he is jewish. anyone know for sure?
266
Doesn’t the fact that nobody says a thing about Chris Pine speak volumes?
Shatner is Kirk. I wish Pine all the luck in the world, but it is far more likely that he becomes the next Timothy Dalton rather than the next Sean Connery if you know what I mean.
262. Closet Trekker – November 23, 2007
“#260- I understand. However, you then still have to resolve the issue of Kirk’s death in the Nexus. I did not like Generations or the death of Kirk -the way it was done, but why go down that road again?”
Roddenberry himself pretty much disregarded plotlines in “Star Trek V: The Final Frontier,” considering them apocryphal…J.J. can do the same with “Generations,” which instantly restores Kirk to life–no more problems woking Kirk into the story.
It’s not like the core Trek base will be up in arms about ignoring THAT film.
I just appreciate the old films and movies wih Shatner and crew especially now as everyone is really old or dead.
#267
We just have not seen him yet. If Superman can be recast, and then recast again, I think Captain Kirk can as well.
#268
Last weekend, my ten year-old nephew asked me why, when we are watching my Star Trek movie dvds, we always stop after Star Trek IV. I tell him that I do not accept ST V as part of the story, and I am not a fan of VI either. I feel the same way about Nemesis. Unfortunately, too much happened in Generations to just ignore if you are trying to follow the story. After all, I actually like First Contact, and the reason there is an Enterprise-E is that Enterprise-D was destroyed in Generations (as a result of an excellent battle scene with the renegade Klingons, I must admit). I think that for Kirk to reappear in fat-Shat form, you would have to be able to justify it.
Re:270. Trekfan75 – November 23, 2007
“Last weekend, my ten year-old nephew asked me why, when we are watching my Star Trek movie dvds, we always stop after Star Trek IV. I tell him that I do not accept ST V as part of the story, and I am not a fan of VI either. I feel the same way about Nemesis. Unfortunately, too much happened in Generations to just ignore if you are trying to follow the story. After all, I actually like First Contact, and the reason there is an Enterprise-E is that Enterprise-D was destroyed in Generations (as a result of an excellent battle scene with the renegade Klingons, I must admit). I think that for Kirk to reappear in fat-Shat form, you would have to be able to justify it. ”
I see your point. This is why the best course for the Abrams team should have been the “alternate universe” path; in that way, they can still use TOS characters, but are not bound by anything which causes problems.
…..or, use TNG continuity–only up to the series finale–disregarding the entire movie series. Since this reboot is a chance to start fresh, the team should be able to pick and choose whatever they need to keep and disregard–and audiences ready for a new look may not care about the TNG movies being “written out.”
I look at this way: Paramount claims The Animated Series is not canon, but much from that series have been incorporated into official series, including two Remastered episodes. If TPB and Trekkers can accept previously non-canon material becoming canon, they can certainly accept the elimination of elements or all of TNG’s film series…I guess?
Your discussion is getting off into the final frontier. At issue is not the “fix” of Kirk’s Generations death. The opportunity that it seems these folks could be passing on is to reunite Shatner and Nimoy on screen, in a Star Trek production. Like many, I really don’t have any issue with what J.J. wants to do with the franchise, now and in the future. However, for me personally, I am just not as rapid a fan as I once was. Rick Berman neutered me. All I am asking is an act of good will. Primarily from Paramount. Abrams is just caught in the middle of this. I have spent a lot of my money, as many of us, on Trek products. We have given and given to Paramount, and I feel it’s time for them to give back. They let Berman scoff on TOS fans. UPN had no intention of bringing Shatner to Enterprise after they decided to cancel the series, whatever his asking price was. That’s how I feel. Maybe you could call that selfish, and you could say its not fair that J.J.’s movie should be protected at all costs. That’s fine, but at least J.J. has said he is working on including Shatner.
267. VOODOO – November 23, 2007
“Doesn’t the fact that nobody says a thing about Chris Pine speak volumes?”
What volumes? He’s a youngster with a lot less years under the belt. He’s an unknown in this part…there’s little in the way of interviews to comment on. Plus he’s had less time to rattle the chains of the press, unlike Shatner. If you can call interviews on your own site hosted by your daughter as “press”.
He’s said he’s not in it.
Nimoy’s said he’s not in it and has diplomatically chastised Shat for his snipes on the subject.
Bad Robot has not said anything, but that’s no surprise. Why tell more than you have to?
This constant pushing for Shatner’s return in here is old. You aren’t doing anything to change hearts. I feel your pain, but you keep bringing it up and it isn’t going to happen.
It just might, as we all know anything is possible in fiction.
The Shat would appear to have more hair
He’s always been known to have some flair
Wanting him back is a fanciful quirk
Still, it’d be fun to see him back as Kirk
Just alive at the end, certainly not centre chair!
274. Litenbug – November 23, 2007
He’s said he’s not in it.
Nimoy’s said he’s not in it and has diplomatically chastised Shat for his snipes on the subject.
Bad Robot has not said anything, but that’s no surprise. Why tell more than you have to?
I agree, wholeheartdly, he’s not in it!
They are filming up to March 08. If Shatner’s older Kirk was part of a proposed storyline, they would have written it long ago, so the writer’s strike would not affect his participation. He wants to be in it and the production company is on record saying they would like him to be in it. Because of the writer’s strike, there won’t be any new Boston Legal filming for awhile giving Shatner plenty of time to film any scenes for the movie..
You’re right Capatin Fantastic, officially Shat’s not in it. And officially, Area 51 doesn’t exist…officially..
#274, 277
I’m glad you two, at least, have come to an agreement about the Shatner issue.
#273
Yes, yes, Pine’s such a youngster – not a bit like e. g. the much more famous and experienced Quinto who is particularly well-known to the part he’ll play and who accordingly keeps being interviewed and showing up on this site quite frequently. (Disregarding here that the threads to the Quinto news never seem to indicate that much interest…)
Oh BTW, Shatner’s daughter was responsible for the AP, CNN, BBC and what have you coverage, as well? What a woman!
#273
No it says that Shatner is and always will be Kirk to most people.
If people were so excited about the roles being re-cast wouldn’t the majority of talk be about the new actors rather than the originals?
Again, I will state that I wish nothing but the best for the new actors. They have a daunting task ahead of them. Trying to replace legends will not be easy.
My point is if Shatner is in this film it would be a big deal. While Chris Pine is just another guy.
The only mainstream media attention this film is getting is about William Shatner + as far as we know he is not in the film.
While Shatner is being obnoxious about it. He does have a point when he says it makes good business sense to have him in it.
This the 10,000th thread about Shatner now has 280 posts in
The Zach Quinto thread from the same day now has exactly 18 posts in it.
Love him or hate him you must admit Shatner brings out the fire in Star Trek fans. Star Trek XI is an event if Shatner + Nimoy are in it. Without them it’s just another reboot.
It would indeed be a poor move not to have Shatner in the film.
He’s not in it!!! The video above clearly says that he isn’t in it!!!! Enough is enough! I like Shatner, I think he’s a lad, but he still not in this film nor do I think he should be in it. There is no way you can read into the above clip that he is, in fact, in the film.
# 282. I agree; Bill Shatner is not in this film, and if this is all a big “publicity stunt” and at the eleventh hour he is in the film, how stupid.
Let’s get over it.
But I doubt it. Let’s let it go. Perhaps the Great Bird of the Galaxy is looking out for him. ;)
#282 Captain Fantastic
???
Why are you insisting that he isn’t in it?
You are right that he is not yet signed to be in the movie. But that doesn’t mean that he won’t be in it. Orci and JJ have both stated that they are working on getting him in the movie.
Believe them!!!
281. VOODOO – November 24, 2007
“This the 10,000th thread about Shatner now has 280 posts in”
“It would indeed be a poor move not to have Shatner in the film.”
I think this is about the 5,000th time you said this. The regular posters and lurkers and likely your neighbors know your opinion by now. Oh, and I think Shatner said it too.
ZQ has given far more interviews than Pine. And yes, Shatner’s older…and known for this part. Think I am gonna contest that? But he’s NOT in this… The boat had to sail without him eventually. Too bad he conspired to kill Kirk for money.
#279 Iowagirl… so, you have finally agreed as well? Or is this your no-win scenerio?
Shatner threads = Kobiyashi Maru ;-)
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
Nice effort #264!
I still think there is a good chance that Shatner will be in the film for the simple reason that Roberto Orci said he may still be in the film even though they have started filming.
It just wouldn’t be the same without Shatner as Kirk.
Some people’s balloons are gonna get popped if they are waiting for the surprise cameo a 13 months from now. So sorry..
Some folks asked if Mr. Shatner appeared to be losing wait. Look at images over the past 3 months and judge for yourself:
http://www.virtualheartland.com/miscstuff/shatspan.jpg
#285
- #279 Iowagirl… so, you have finally agreed as well? Or is this your no-win scenerio? -
Irony, Litenburg, Irony. Difficult concept, I know – almost as difficult as agreement…
No no-win-scenario for me so far – nor for you. Hence, your enjoyment is somewhat premature.
#286
The question is: who will get the Award for Creative Thinking this time.
#284 Kirok Fan
I’m insisting he isn’t in it because he says above ‘I’m not in the film’ and Shatner seems genuinely annoyed about that fact. The video above was released to confirm that Shatner isn’t in it. The video isn’t part of some massive hoax, it does what it says on the tin. Informs us that he isn’t in it. The script is locked, its being filmed. Nimoy. a cast member, has both confirmed that Shatner isn’t in it (for the obvious reason that Shatner’s Kirk is dead) and has politely intimated that Shatner should stop whining about not being in it.
The above= Shatner’s not in it.
And, he shouldn’t be in it for so many reasons, many of which I have already commuicated in this thread.
#284 Kirok Fan
The above Shatner video was released to END speculation, not fuel it! There is nothing in it to remotely suggest that Shatner will be in the film, and its from the horse’s mouth!
292 & 293 Captain Fantastic
Shatner’s video isn’t about ending speculation or fueling it either. It’s a video put on his website to update his fans about what’s going on.
In the video, he mentions that he was talking to Nimoy about the movie just the day before. This proves that he is at least talking to people involved in the project.
There does not need to be a hoax going on for Shatner to still end up in the movie. Maybe he isn’t in it at this point. But maybe he will be at a later point. Orci stated here that the filming may begin without the issue being settled. Orci also stated that if the producers had their way, no one would know anything about the movie until it comes out. And, as I stated before, Orci and JJ have both stated that they are working on getting him in the movie. And so far, we have not received word from Orci or JJ that he won;t be in it. There are way too many mixed messages for this to be a settled matter.
There is no evidence that this issue is settled. None. You can say all you want that he’s not in it, but that just does not mean that he won’t be in it.
You might even end up being right – maybe he won’t be in it. But still, there is no definitive answer to the issue at this time. So you might end up being right, but you’re wrong right now.
291. Iowagirl – November 25, 2007
Enjoyment for me?
I’ve not cared either way on his actual participation… I DO tire of some fans single-mindednesss that he MUST be in it… that HE IS TREK and that’s absolute BS. That and fans hijacking non-Shatner threads to further their agenda.
Additionally, I wish he’d show some grace, even if asked about the subject…rather than this “stupid” business decision comment I’ve seen.
My enjoyment is that there will be a new film with characters I like
#294 Kirok Fan
I’m not wrong right now! Because he’s not in it and he said so himself. I’m right, because there is no indication that the situation is going to change. None.
Of course the video is about ending speculation and rumor, any suggestion that it isn’t is ridiculous. It is a video giving out facts. It has been made to tell people what Shatner is and isn’t up to. He says: ‘I’m not in the new film’. Therefore, he wants his fans to know that he isn’t in the new film. Therefore, he obviously does not want the video to fuel speculation that he is in it because he states in the video: ‘I’m not in it’. I don’t see how that can be any more plain and clear.
JJ said he was trying to get him in the film, and we know he spoke to Shatner on a number of occasions. That he is not in the film now it has begun filming means it is more than likely that he will never be in it.
This is because if the producers, writers and director really wanted him to be in it, (like everyone on this site believes), and Shatner obviously would like the opportunity to be in it, they would have surely made it possible for him to be in it by now. They’ve been working on this project for over a year, it is very unlikely that they would have left an issue like this right until the last minute if both parties really wanted it to happen. Isn’t that obvious?
There are no mixed messages. It has been said that there was a possibility he might be in it but the project has started filming and he is not yet in it. Because the project is now well into filming it is looking more and more likely that Shatner won’t be in it. Even Shatner seems convinced he won’t be in it, he gives no indication in his most recent video that there is still a possibility he might yet get a part.
I can’t believe a video of the man himself saying he’s not in it can fuel so much speculation that he in fact might be.
#295
I was answering post 285, Litenbug.
And just because Shatner has spoken to Nimoy proves NOTHING! They’re friends, so it is likely they have spoken. Nimoy has recently made a statement relating to Shatner, that’s another reason why they might have spoken. Shatner’s jealous Nimoy’s in it and wants to know more about the project which he is missing out on, there’s another reason.
That Shatner has spoken to Nimoy does not, however, have any bearing as to whether Shatner will end up in the film. Whatsoever.
An example of mixed messages would be one party saying he is definitely in it and another party saying he definitely won’t be in it. That hasn’t happened. And nothing which has been said about Shatner’s involvement has been contradictory. All that has been said is that JJ and Orci wanted him in it, but up until this point he isn’t in it, presumably because it hasn’t been possible, for a reason we don’t know. They are not mutually exclusive.
#295 Xai “that he MUST be in it…that HE IS TREK and that’s absolute BS”
BS?
Hmmm….I like how you leave your options open where those initials could mean either excrement from an animal or Bill Shatner!!
And, no, let’s not have some smartass write back with a crack like, “what’s the difference?”
#298 Iowagirl
My mistake
Captain Fantastic,
Your comments seem to overlook some important details.
In #296, you state:
“I’m not wrong right now! Because he’s not in it and he said so himself. I’m right, because there is no indication that the situation is going to change. None.”
My response to this comment is that something must change. Shatner says he hasn’t recently been contacted, and yet JJ and Orci have claimed that they are trying to get him in. So something has to change — either Shatner will be contacted, or else JJ and Orci will give up on trying to work him into the movie.
You also state:
“They’ve been working on this project for over a year, it is very unlikely that they would have left an issue like this right until the last minute if both parties really wanted it to happen. Isn’t that obvious?”
Well, if the project wasn’t so secretive, I’d agree with you. But this isn’t just any movie. Here are some details that make it not so obvious:
1) Nimoy’s scenes do not start filming until December, so Shatner wouldn’t be needed until then anyway, and perhaps not until much later.
2) Orci came on this forum and stated that this is an issue that might go unresolved until after the project is underway.
3) Many other cast members seem to have been cast at almost the last minute. As recently as a few days ago, we were just receiving info about Sarek.
4) Orci and JJ have both stated that they are trying to work him into the movie. At no point have they stated that he won’t be in it.
5) Shatner wants to be in the movie
You may be right that he won’t end up being in the movie, but I don’t see how you can claim that there are no mixed messages. It is clearly an open issue, and the movie will be filming for many more months, which is long enough to include him if they wish.
And by the way, mixed messages need not entail a logical contradiction. When one message implies one thing, and another message implies the opposite, there is no logical contradiction, even though the messages are certainly mixed.
?
#303 Kirok Fan
Shatner is not in it right now= Right now, I’m right.
If Shatner’s involvement is analagous to Nimoy’s, and they share at least a few scenes together, or even just one, and both parties (both Shatner and the makers of the film) want him to be in this film, why didn’t they cast him around the same time as Nimoy?
Let me explain why:
There is a massive, and obvious,difference between casting Sarek and casting Shatner:
Other casting decisions take longer because the actor’s playing the parts are unknown. E.g the guy who played original sarek is dead, therefore the producers/director need to take quite a bit of time finding a suitable new actor. Shatner is not dead, he, like Nimory, should be one of the earliest members to be cast. He was not. There is a good reason for this:
Shatner isn’t in the film.
But, I’m sure you’ll reply by saying that JJ and Orci have said they are trying to get him in this film and that the decision might be made well into filming.
Let me explain this as well. Both JJ and Orci recognise the massive fan following that Shatner has, and that this fan following is also the core Trek following. For this film to be financially successful, they have to demonstrate that they have been acknowledging the Trek fan following, to get them to see the film. They can’t look as if they are ignoring the fans. Thus, they made some effort to look like they might put Shatner in the film. Listen to what Shatner says in the video: that he met with JJ, but he’s not sure why because they didn’t really discuss putting him in the project. It seems obvious to me that JJ has made sure that he has kept his word: he has publically considered putting Shatner in. Fans who support Shatner now cannot angrily claim that Shatner was never considered and that JJ lied to them. However, JJ has also decided not to put him in the film. It has been stated that the decision might be made well into filming to placate fans, and keep those who died-hard Shatner fans interested in the project for as long as possible, at least long enough so that those fans might become interested in the project itself and not just because it holds out the possibility that it might feature a return of Shatner as Kirk.
My definition of ‘mixed messages’ must simply differ from yours. There is no right or wrong on this issue.
The only way I can be proved completely wrong is if Shatner is cast.
Nothing has to change.
You see, we know that Shatner wants to be in the film, he’s made that very obvious.
But if JJ and Orci want him in so badly as well, why wasn’t he cast as easily and quickly as Nimoy?
Why would they possibly wait so long?
And its no secret that Nimoy’s in it. Why should it be any more of a secret that Shatner is?
And even Shatner’s involvement isn’t that secretive, news of his dealings with the project are all over the web. JJ, Shatner and Orci have all clearly stated their interest.
JJ and Orci have clearly considered him, like they promised they would. However, to my mind, they have decided against putting him in the film. And no one can complain about it. They honored their agreement to the fans to think about it, but they are certainly at liberty to decide against it. It is their film after all.
#304
Captain Fantastic, my apologies for interfering in your discussion with Kirok Fan, but I’m interested in your stance on two specific matters.
If I understand you correctly, one possible explanation that can be derived from the ongoing development is that Abrams from the very beginning only PRETENDED to want Shatner in the film in order to placate as well the Shatner fans as the core Trek fans; because Abrams & Co. can’t look as if they are ignoring the fans, as you put it. Further on, you stated “Thus, they made some effort to LOOK LIKE they might put Shatner in the film.”
Are you really hinting at such a swindle, such a fraud, or am I misinterpreting your post? I know, in 192 you said you didn’t think that Abrams lied but your diction in 304 sort of angles off.
# 304, 307
Apart from that, you state in your post: Listen to what Shatner says in the video: that he met with JJ, but he’s not sure why because they didn’t really discuss putting him in the project.
IMO, this contradicts what you are saying now: – JJ and Orci have clearly considered him, like they promised they would. – Either they didn’t discuss putting him in or they clearly considered him. As I understand it, these two scenarios are mutually exclusive.
306′ “And its no secret that Nimoy’s in it. Why should it be any more of a secret that Shatner is?”
Quite simple. Because Nimoy as Spock, from all indications, is the star of the film. Not to mention the buzz surrounding a TOS film starring Leonard Nimoy is sufficient to carry the film well into 2008.
Shatner being brought onboard would be kept secret because the character died and with that in mind, an alternate timeline bringing him back to life would be a huge surprise and they have already stated they want to throw us a surprise party….regardless of the fact that we are so demanding and want to know when we will be surprised.
And if they wanted to let the cat out of the bad, now is not the time. The best time for that news to hit would be a couple of weeks before the film’s release….with absolutely no indication of how we will see him…just a short blurb confirming Shatner’s particiaption in the film. That would simmer in fandom’s collective gut and bring one of the largest Trek opening weekends ever.
IF he is in the film, or can be signed within the next 4 months….which is highly possible… the best thing they can do is NOT tell us.
No, i don’ think he pretended at all, I wasn’t very clear. JJ must have considered putting Bill in it, met him, and dismissed the possibility well before filming began. But I think that JJ was always conscious that he had to be very public about his efforts to placate the fans. (that is what I meant when I said they put in the effort to make it look like they had met with Shatner- JJ wanted it to be a visible fact that he had done it). There is no big fraud involved. We don’t know how seriously JJ considered putting Shatner in in the first place, of course. It may well have been a hollow gesture (that is, despite meeting Shatner, having him in the film was, in JJ’s mind, always a remote possibility).
He and the writers have left the matter open because why not ? It keeps people interested.
Captain Fantastic:
“Both J.J. and Orci recognise the massive following that Shatner has”
Then why not put him in the film?
If Shatner does not show up it is simply because they never wanted him in the first place.
#309
Yeah, but Shatner’s involvement really wouldn’t be a big surprise at all would it?! Consider how much Shatner, JJ and Orci have gone on about it and how much fan speculation there has been? Most people who frequent this sight are expecting Shatner to be in it, and would be surprised if he isn’t! His possible / potential involvement in the film is the worst kept secret in Hollywood. JJ and Orci certainly haven’t been secretive about it, they’ve just given no guarantees that he will be in the film.
#311
Recognising Shatner’s following does not mean that JJ should feel compelled to put him in the film. They recognised his following by considering putting him in it.
As I have posted before on this thread, there are a whole host of reasons why JJ and Orci may have decided not to put Shatner in the film.
And Shatner not showing up in the film certainly does not prove that they never wanted him in the first place. Surely, JJ and Orci are able to consider it and then dismiss the idea, aren’t they?
#310
Thanks for the clarification.
However, talking to someone about putting him in a movie as a mere hollow gesture, as a remote possibility, then dismissing this possibility altogether but externally leaving the matter open only to keep people interested, at best satisfies the term ”to play false”.
Anyway, as you stated that you do not consider Abrams a pretender, I will not continue to pursue this particular matter beyond my doubts shaped.
#309 “And if they wanted to let the cat out of the bad, now is not the time”
Cat out of the bad?
Is that a close cousin to the phrase, “what doggone good is that gonna do?”
Sooooo-weeeeeeeeeeee!!!
SPOILER ALERT!!!
Mr. Shatner can’t appear until the last scene (last shot too?).
Nor can Mr. Shatner give away the ending.
That fact that they won’t rule Shatner out bodes well for him showing up. If they truly didn’t want him they would say it.
I return a week later and this thread still has life in it. Amazing. At least we didn’t get the comments closed this time, eh guys? ;)
I picked up the TOS-R DVDs this weekend and am now delving into them. Shatner Rules!
Just saw some pix of the Shat from his recent book signing. He looks even better than he does in the video above, and really not all that different from how he appeared in Generations:
http://trekweb.com/articles/2007/11/26/Photos-of-William-Shatner-at-Star-Trek-Book-Signing-at-Hollywood.shtml
#318- You said it. This is one hot trek topic! Not sure any opinions were changed, though.
I like my Kirk young and thin, with plenty of fist-fighting and fornicating. Good luck, Chris Pine. You have a big pair of boots (and the occassional Star Fleet issue profalactic) to fill!
Question (asked of a young James Kirk): “Tell us, James….why do you persist in chasing after virgins and not women with more sexual experience?”
Answer: “Simple, I like to go where no man has gone before!”
#321 See, Harry? You have more in common with Captain Kirk than even you imagined!
Hey, watch it, I resemble that remark! :)
Shatner does look good in those pics. Screw the prequel just make a Kirk and Spock movie, with whoever is left alive from the old cast.
Yeah. and we’ll call it Grumpy Old Men In Space…….:)
I own all Star Trek Movies, nearly all Nxt Generation Seasons and i´m about to get the old ones too (im 28)…if they make this Movie a bad one…it´ll be the first one missing in my collection.
I DONT WANT AMERICAN ENTERPRISE PIE!!!
Dior