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CSUN Transformed Into Academy? [UPDATED] March 18, 2008

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Star Trek (2009 film) , trackback

It is Spring Break and the campus of Cal State Northridge should be deserted, but instead it is full of people with sci-fi looking uniforms and banners bearing a very familiar emblem. Reports have been coming in to TrekMovie.com today about “Corporate Headquarters” aka “Untitled Paramount Feature” aka….shooting at CSUN. And tonight AICN has put up some pictures.
[spoilers]

Here is one of the reports sent in to TrekMovie.com from a student at CSUN

The CSUN Library is standing in as part of the Academy. There are dozens of extras in red cadet uniforms, along with officer types in more military style dress. I noticed that the cadets were spaced throughout the area in front of the library – no doubt to facilitate multiplying them digitally.

Not much has been done to modify the area. There are bluescreens on the sides of the lawn areas and some of the lighting fixtures have been modified. Also, banners on the streetlights have been replaced with clear green panels with Starfleet “spinnaker” cutouts. A futuristic kiosk sits on the lawn.

TrekMovie.com hasn’t confirmed that it is actually a scene at the Academy, but according to another source, work on “futurizing” the CSUN Oviatt Library began last week. Right now it isn’t clear if this is first unit (meaning Abrams + principal cast shooting scenes with dialog) or second unit (usually just background actors and no dialog). It is known that Zachary Quinto (Spock) was not there as he is currently in Pennsylvania.

AICN has got a few high res images of the crowd and some wacky car.

UPDATE: Another Report [still spoilers]

There was quite a diversity of uniforms. Most were dressed as in red uniforms with gold delta shield emblems where Next Gen crew members wore their pips. Women (including aliens) wore skirts and the men’s were a cross between a bellboy’s uniform and Picard’s dress uniform. Other people wore grey uniforms that somewhat resembled uniforms for imperial officers in Star Wars. There were others who wore uniforms that appeared to be futuristic versions of today’s military officer uniforms.

For the shot they were mostly just milling about. There was an overhead crane shot of the cadets seeing and reacting to something in the sky off screen. Everyone on the lawn pointed in the same direction and ran towards a blue screen at the edge of the area.

As for today, shootings done! Everything is almost down. I never saw Pine or Abrams or any other main cast.

Comments

1. Kevin - March 18, 2008

Red cadet uniforms? Somebody should probably tell them that cadet uniforms are silver.

2. Devon - March 18, 2008

Hah! That’s cool! I had heard something about CSUN a week ago or so but figured you guys would have more info. Well done to AICN ironically. Thank you Anthony!

3. Devon - March 18, 2008

“Red cadet uniforms? Somebody should probably tell them that cadet uniforms are silver.”

Look red to me ;)

4. MattJC - March 18, 2008

I thought the delta insignia was supposed to specifically for the Enterprise crew in the 23rd century?
That doesn’t sound like respecting canon to me.

5. Cranston - March 18, 2008

I like the cadet uniforms. They’ve got the same cut, basically, as the TOS dress uniforms. Nice bit of continuity in design.

I also like the very ’60s-looking hovercar :).

Interesting that there appear to be 3 distinct types of uniforms — the all-red ones without Starfleet shield (with hats, and with skirts for women); the gray ones without shield; and the darker gray ones with shields. The dark gray + delta symbol seem, at least in some cases, to be worn by older actors. Maybe these are instructors?

Anyway, I’m liking the look. Can’t wait to see the actual duty uniforms on the principal cast, though.

6. Darkthunder - March 18, 2008

Think “Kevin” was referring to the fact that Finnegan in TOS had a silver colored “cadet” uniform.

7. Devon - March 18, 2008

“I thought the delta insignia was supposed to specifically for the Enterprise crew in the 23rd century?”

If you aren’t for sure then you really can’t say…

“That doesn’t sound like respecting canon to me.”

8. Mickey MET - March 18, 2008

Wow! Too bad I don’t have an overdue book that just would need to go back right about now. . . two states away. . . .

9. MattJC - March 18, 2008

7. Well it doesn’t sound like it is respecting anything to me.
That insignia is supposed to be for the Enterprise crew only.

10. MattJC - March 18, 2008

Sorry, I forgot to add this to my last post.
It wasn’t until the TNG era when that insignia was used for every Starfleet vessel.

11. Cranston - March 18, 2008

MattJC — I know that TOS usually had different insignia for different starships, but I always gagged a bit at the cover story Roddenberry et al trotted out when they started using the insignia universally in the movies (that it was done to honor the crew of the big E because they were just so damn cool, or somesuch). I have no problem just accepting a retcon that the delta insignia was always a pan-Starfleet symbol, but maybe with other symbols used in certain context (insert retcon explanation here).

Actually, TOS wasn’t completely consistent about this either. There were occasions when officers who apparently weren’t serving on the Enterprise wore the delta insignia too (remember Kirk’s former academy classmates in “Court Martial,” for example).

Either way it’s an inconsistency, but this option — the delta insignia for all of starfleet — makes more sense globally to me. Your mileage may vary, of course.

12. jabba the hut - March 18, 2008

I like!!

13. Hansolo - March 18, 2008

what i wanna see is
a believable story, well made and produced
i wanna feel like its a good star trek

What if the change canon.
its a Fiction. If the make it believable. and start telling stories again, based on what star trek was and is all about.
than its a good trek movie.

All this lloking for details for me is just ridiculous
one has to see the bigger Picture.

I for once Wanna see a great monumental Trek Movie again
well made with good actors and a great star trek storie

14. Devon - March 18, 2008

“Either way it’s an inconsistency, but this option — the delta insignia for all of starfleet — makes more sense globally to me. Your mileage may vary, of course.”

Yes, and keeps it universally recognizable.

15. MattJC - March 18, 2008

You want it recognizable but you also want change.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

16. Devon - March 18, 2008

Anyone notice the licence plates on the vehicle?

17. (K)night - March 18, 2008

#11 I have heard and read the same story. As cool as the Enterprise may have been it would seem unlikely for any organization to change everyone else’s insignia to match. Even if the crew and/or was respected it seems to disrespect other crews’ identities and/or traditions. Is there anyone here with familiarity with military and other organizations? How do symbols like this evolve and get adopted? Maybe I am the only one that finds that kind of thing interesting. :) That said, I do prefer the insignia as a universal starfleet insignia. As much as I love the Enterprise I like the idea of the Starfleet more because there are so many types of ships and each serves a different purpose: a ship full of science geeks, some ships for more battle type activities, and ships just for exploration on the cutting edge (so to speak) of space.

18. Jan - March 18, 2008

Yeah!!!
At last real high res pics from the set!! More of it!!
:-)

19. Jan - March 18, 2008

I don’t see any aliens on the campus… ?!

20. non-belligerency confirmed - March 18, 2008

ah. skirts.

21. Storma - March 18, 2008

Wow…. Imperial officers are teaching at Starfleet Acedemy…

Han Solo is captain Kirk…

What is next? Darth Vader as the villain?

22. Devon - March 18, 2008

“You want it recognizable but you also want change.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.”

It does. Instead of having a million different insignias, give it one look to keep it consistent and recognizable. Simple.

23. Sisko Is The Prophet, Peace Be Upon Him - March 18, 2008

oh god the ol starfleet emblem chesnut. As mentioned it wasn’t consistent in TOS. and of course was quickly dropped after TOS for all the movies starting with TMP because it was a pain and confusing…especially to non Trekkies.

but if you need some ‘fannon’ to hold on to…then the Enterprise used the same logo as all of starfleet because it was the flagship (problem solved)

and if you cant handle the movie because of a detail like that…then you are really taking things too seriously.

But my theory on all the people here like MattJC, Storma and Iowagirl and other Trollettes is that they are not really ‘purists’ they are just angry. They want some other Star Trek XI (ENT movie, TNG movie, Shatner movie) and since they arent getting their pet project there are hear to piss all over this one and whine. Well deal with it. This is the movie they are making and it will be great or it will suck….but things like the starfleet emblem are the last things that will really matter in the end.

24. PaoloM - March 18, 2008

#10 “Sorry, I forgot to add this to my last post.
It wasn’t until the TNG era when that insignia was used for every Starfleet vessel.”

It doesn’t really matter too much, in my opinion. The uniforms look very good!

25. jabba the hut - March 18, 2008

Horray for the uniforms!!

Hip,hip, Horray!

26. Sean - March 18, 2008

Aw, man! I used to live just a few miles from CSUN! I could have seen some filming of the movie! NOOOOO!

27. Dr. Image - March 18, 2008

As a Red Dwarf fan, I approve of the Rimmeresque look!

28. Never knew I was such a geek - March 18, 2008

Someone on Aintitcool claims to know from someone working on this, that it’s a second unit job. Apparently it’s the moment where the builders (the guys in grey) of the Enterprise ceremonially hand over the ship to its crew (red uniforms).
And the car is going to fly.

29. Scott Xavier - March 18, 2008

Why oh why do we have 60’s looking stuff.

30. Gravitic Yours - March 18, 2008

That “hovercar” is an Aptera Hybrid — an actual vehicle that is scheduled to be sold (sadly in California only) later in 2008.

The official site:
http://www.aptera.com/about.php

Popular Mechanics Test Drive on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2Ke1VWhZJA

Not likely that it will be flying anywhere, methinks.

31. Marian C. - March 18, 2008

-Why they have red uniforms..?

32. mooseday - March 18, 2008

If the car is gonna fly hope they take the license plate off it …..

33. Devon - March 18, 2008

#31 – K-Mart was having a “Red-Shirt” Special.

34. Devon - March 18, 2008

#28 – I really highly doubt this for some reason ;)

35. Chris M - March 18, 2008

OMG this is so cool and bring on more photos from the set of Star Trek I say!!!!! :)

36. PaoloM - March 18, 2008

#29 “Why oh why do we have 60’s looking stuff.”

I would not say “60’s looking stuff”. Seems to me a mixture of futuristic vintage, a timeless look and feel that may be perfect for classic Star Trek.

37. jonboc - March 18, 2008

This is a special ceremony so clearly these are all dress uniforms for the special event. There is no reason to say that the regular academy atire…assuming we even see the Academy outside of this scene… won’t be silver as we saw in the series.

And I’m loving the whole 60’s vibe. Good stuff!

38. BrandonJ - March 18, 2008

Oh come ON! I get so tired of reading these boards some times! Aside a bunch of retards who yell FIRST!!!, the only other thing I see a lot of is whether or not the new film will be canon…whether it’ll be good… Come on! I’m twenty-nine years old…I’ve been a Trek fan since I was about eight…I’m about as worried as anyone about whether the film will be any good…but COME ON…why not be grateful we have something new coming down the pike?! Why not EMBRACE it and LOOK FORWARD to it?! My GOD, these people are working hard every day, from the writers and actors on down, doing their best to put out a good piece of entertainment…and that’s what it’s all really about, anyway–will the audience be ENTERTAINED? So WHAT if Shatner’s not in it…I love Shatner, but WATCH BOSTON LEGAL or RERUNS! Guys, come on! Is it not one of the main messages of Gene Roddenberry’s future to be open minded? To be tolerant? Kirk even said to Scotty in ST III, “young minds, fresh ideas…be tolerant.” Consider that!

39. Iowagirl - March 18, 2008

Dear Sisko:
I can only speak for myself – TOS is greatly important to me and what somebody else said on another thread holds true for me, too: Kirk, Spock and the rest of the bunch have sort of become my second family. So, this film naturally triggers some heartfelt concerns in me which are being encouraged by the manner XI is handled in the run-up. Discussing ST in general, and those topics in particular cases with people who feel the same way I do, and with people who have a different view alike, therefore is a very important matter to me.

I’d like take the opportunity to particularly thank you for respecting my apprehension, and my admittedly rather negatively colored attitude, and would like to point out how much I’ve appreciated our many checkered, yet inspiring discussions we’ve shared in recent months, and which surely are serving as a proof of your theory. Oh, and I’m confident that your accusing and name-calling a person who at that time even hadn’t participated in the thread, was a mere inadvertence.

40. Marian C. - March 18, 2008

- I really don’t like this ‘new uniforms’…

41. CanuckLou - March 18, 2008

Nice shots. They are going to have to CGI the grass too – it looks pretty patchy.

The adventure continues…

42. Dab - March 18, 2008

#30 – nice find there, my Google-Fu wasn’t fast enough, but I knew I had seen it somewhere before.

43. Marian C. - March 18, 2008

A..a .. i’m sorry for mistake ..these red uniforms..

44. Stanky McFibberich - March 18, 2008

re: 41. CanuckLou – March 18, 2008
“Nice shots. They are going to have to CGI the grass too – it looks pretty patchy.”

Absolutely. Everyone knows that Roddenberry believed in the perfection of grass in the future.

45. Captain Hackett - March 18, 2008

I love those mini skirts! :D

Dammit, I want that car!

46. Battletrek - March 18, 2008

Sisko If the Shat were in this film I bet Iowagirl, and the rest of the his sycophants wouldn’t care if the Enterprise was shaped like a Romulan vessel so long as their pagan god was in the film.

47. Captain Hackett - March 18, 2008

46. Battletrek

Ditto!

48. Sebastian - March 18, 2008

A nice blend of retro ’60s style with some modern sensibilities thrown in. As for the arrowhead, ENTERPRISE showed a sideways arrowhead at Starfleet Headquarters in the 4th season (very similar to the NASA emblem currently used). And it was the first motion picture, NOT the Next Gen. era that used it for all Starfleet vessels. If you’re going to nit-pick the hell out of a couple of photos, do it right. Personally, I hope they chuck all of the entangling and unworkable preconceptions and start fresh. The arrowhead is identified with Star Trek; so it’s in the movie….so what? I love that they brought back the cool ’60s idea of what the future should look like. Not easy to pull off, but it works! Good job to all involved. Looking forward to May, 2009!

49. diabolik - March 18, 2008

Some whine because it looks 60’s…. but those same people then whine if it doesn’t look like TOS… well, the design ethic of TOS was rooted in the 60’s. Some fans whine out of both sides of their mouth.

50. Kirk, James T. - March 18, 2008

to number 4: seems as though you can’t leave this film alone MattJC – i think thats pathetic that you (and others) dislike this film so much you still find time to comment on it ;) lol

51. Red Shirt - March 18, 2008

Little details are what will impress me in post. Like, for example, lets go see this movie, and then look back at something like the grass on the lawn at CSUN. It looks recently mowed, but not well groomed. It’s the small kind of detail that a place like SF Acad (if this is that) would be perfect, pristine, and gorgeous.

Again, a little detail that I wonder if they might dwell on in post, among thousands of others.

PS. That Aptera being there reminds me of seeing a slightly redressed Ford Probe in Back to the Future II. So, yeah, having the Aptera here is fun because it would be akin to BTTF II’s retro-future Ford Probe…

52. GraniteTrek - March 18, 2008

The very dark grey uniform with the hats that have a visor on them remind me of the Imperial officer uniforms in Star Wars, but in general I like the look.

53. Devon - March 18, 2008

Re: Insignia.

Didn’t all the Constitution Class Ships also have the Arrowhead Emblem on the side along the Nacelles and Secondary Hull????

54. me - March 18, 2008

And what does the Imperial Uniforms refer to o.O

@#1 But maybe the grey uniforms are the new version of the silver uniform ;)

55. star trackie - March 18, 2008

#38 “but COME ON…why not be grateful we have something new coming down the pike?! Why not EMBRACE it and LOOK FORWARD to it?”

Well, for starters, after 20 years of Berma-fied Trek I HAVE to be cautiously optimistic. TNG and the other spin-offs delivered a whole new kind of Trek and it gave me a sour stomach. When I eat something that gives me a sour stomach I don’t relish the thought of eating it again any time soon. That is why I don’t automatically embrace new “StarTrek”, just because it is new and has those 8 letters in the title.

Having said that…this is NOT coming off of Berman’s assembly line, and the whole thing, from Nimoy’s involvement to the miniskirts and ankle tight black boots, makes me want to see this. I’m more jazzed about this movie than I have been for ANYTHING “Trek” since 1991. And I’m not alone. There is a lot of buzz and excitement, not to mention grade A talent, surrounding this picture and I couldn’t be happier about that.

As far as the pictures go, this is obviously the graduation ceremony and I think the caps are nothing more than caps worn for the ceremony. The whole outside gathering has the feel of a recent college graduation with instructors and students mixing about. I think these are simply graduation uniforms and not at all indicative of what cadets or instructors would wear day to day.

One thing we can probably deduce is the fact that, since Pine was wearng the red uniform he is probably graduating, and his scenes will be of Kirk the student rather than Kirk the instructor, who taught Gary Mitchell.

Miniskirts and go-go boots…gotta love it. (unless your one of those who was expecting a radical change…oh well)

56. Ampris - March 18, 2008

Does that car look like a handheld vacuum cleaner to anyone else? Ha. I wonder about the lack of non-humans, though– will they CG some into the scene? It wouldn’t be the same as costumed characters, IMO, but it’d be better than nothing.

57. trekee - March 18, 2008

Now, now, just because some people say this dislike something – it doesn’t mean they are ‘whining’.

You don’t HAVE to like every single little thing. People are allowed to have reservations, and if they want to air them, this is as good a place to do it as any. It would be far too syrupy sweet and fancopanthic otherwise.

Personally, I *really* dislike the sensor array on the underside of the new Big E in the trailer since it’s a complete lift from the TMP Enterprise.

Still (what’s that phrase the youngsters use…) “stoked” about the whole thing.

One thing though regarding academy canon. Since we never saw the Academy in TOS, we do NOT know what it looked like or what the dress code was. We know Finngean wore a silver top in an episode, but he may have been on the way to the Starfleet Silver Swinger’s Party after class for all we know.

Never extrapolate too much from a sample of 1.

58. Diabolik - March 18, 2008

#53…. so right. The delta shield was right there on the ships, not just the Big E. So, that shows the outline has been associated with Starfleet and not merely one ship.

So, to all the whiners about the delta shield…. get over it. It’s Starfleet.

59. Blowback - March 18, 2008

Those poor cadets in those red shirts… All doomed…

How do you think they all die in this scene? Vaporized immediately or transformed into little styrofoam polyhedrons and stomped flat by a giant Gorn?

60. Sebastian - March 18, 2008

Re: #49; To quote the classic Trek’s ‘Way to Eden,’ “Yeaaay, brother!” The fans that want it both ways will NEVER be happy. What other film franchise these days gets another shot after the last one makes $40-odd million? My only regret is that they didn’t do this in ’89 with Harve Bennett’s Starfleet Academy movie. Would’ve been a nice treat to the fans. But, in part because of “fan outrage” over re-casting, we get…..Star Trek V! To quote Uhura in Trek III, “Be careful what you wish for, you may get it!” Harve Bennett was right; as was Nicholas Meyer. So, to Abrams, Orci, Kurtzman and co.; Don’t give the fans what they ask for. Just give us the best movie you can make!

61. Diabolik - March 18, 2008

#57… “Never extrapolate too much from a sample of 1.” Good advice. Even Biblical scholars agree that it’s not a good idea to base a doctrine on one stand-alone passage. That’s how radicals come about. Of COURSE there are no radicals here….. :P

62. Diabolik - March 18, 2008

And I reserve the term “whiners’ for those that incessantly do just that over miniscule details that usually either don’t matter or have a reason for being the way it is.

63. RedShirtWalking - March 18, 2008

The Delta Shield actually became representative of all of Starfleet in the movies…Star Trek II. All the cadets were wearing the Enterprise delta. The crew of the Reliant was wearing the Enterprise delta.

It *wasn’t* the TNG era that started it.

64. Dennis Bailey - March 18, 2008

#1: “Red cadet uniforms? Somebody should probably tell them that cadet uniforms are silver.”

They’re red now, and grey. We’ve seen these outfits in previous spy photos from the early days of the shoot, posted on http://www.jfxonline.com.

65. Hat Rick - March 18, 2008

I was actually there, as I noted yesterday on this very site.

Here are some points:

1. The interior of Oviatt Library was set-dressed with photographs drawn from NASA and other sources. There was also what appeared to be a photo of the NX-01, albeit in futurized form. As a joke, there was also a tipped-over photograph of a bull on the photo display at the rear of the front entranced hall.

2. The Oviatt glass doors were decorated with the Starfleet emblem.

3. SPOILER: At approximately 4:00 p.m., about a hundred cadets rushed toward the eastern blue screen at the Quadrangle and craned their necks upward with excitement as if looking at a starship landing.

You heard it here first, folks. I was there.

66. Dennis Bailey - March 18, 2008

#63: “The Delta Shield actually became representative of all of Starfleet in the movies…Star Trek II. All the cadets were wearing the Enterprise delta. The crew of the Reliant was wearing the Enterprise delta.

It *wasn’t* the TNG era that started it.”

Exactly so. It’s always especially funny when someone criticizing the producers for getting the details goes out of their way to demonstrate that they don’t really know the details – it’s like the “Internet law” that any post complaining about someone else’s spelling errors will contain at least one spelling error. :lol:

67. Hat Rick - March 18, 2008

Here is an image of the REAL scale-model aircraft, developed by Boeing, that was hung next to the image of the futurized NX-01:

http://blog.wired.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2007/07/30/x48b.jpg

The blended-wing aircraft is known as the XB-48. Speculation centers around the use of this design to seat up to 800 passengers in the full-scale model, but obviously there are no current plans to develop it on the part of Boeing. (Snopes has an article debunking any purported photographs of a full-scale “797”: http://www.snopes.com/photos/airplane/boeing797.asp )

The one linked to at Wired.com is not the exact image displayed at the location shoot, as the one at Oviatt was of the XB-48 in flight.

It’s important to realize that none of these images may be visible in the actual movie.

68. M. - March 18, 2008

I love when fans bitch and complain about the little things…it makes me realize why I stopped going to conventions.

69. M. - March 18, 2008

P.S. Speaking of continuity. Have any of you DIE HARDS actually watched the Original Series? How many times did they mess-up the continuity there?! Some of you people really need to get your heads out of your asses.

70. Hat Rick - March 18, 2008

(Correction: As noted above, an image of the REAL scale-model XB-48 was hung above next to the futurized NX-01, but not exactly the same image as found at Wired.com. I tried Googling for the exact image but couldn’t find it, although I had seen it before.)

If the images on the wall are not visible — as almost certainly they will not be — then obviously the futurized NX-01 might not be canonical.

71. Blowback - March 18, 2008

#65 – Ah, perhaps a starship lands on them ending their poor red-shirted lives….

jk

72. bdrcarter - March 18, 2008

They were using the delta symbol on everything as early as TWOK. Reliant crew had the same uniforms as the Enterprise crew.

73. M. - March 18, 2008

Case in point, some of the earlier episodes allude to the fact that the series takes place in the 22nd century. It was later established that it took place in the 23rd.

Kirk makes an off reference to StarFleet having invested MONEY in Spock. It later is said that money does not exist in the future.

I could go on…

74. DarenDoc - March 18, 2008

I find it funny that they are using the same location (Oviatt Library) that we used on the movie “Sky High” for the titular location. Hope they’re using some mattes.

and, #44, Stanky: “Absolutely. Everyone knows that Roddenberry believed in the perfection of grass in the future”

I’m not sure he was talking about the same grass, though. :)

75. star trackie - March 18, 2008

Hat Rick, thanks again for the info. Ttoo bad you didn’t have a celphone camera to snag some pics of the inside. Yesterday you posted that Pine and Quinto had a scene, but Anthony is posting that ” It is known that Zachary Quinto (Spock) was not there as he is currently in Pennsylvania.”

Maybe it was just a double in make up being used for wide establishing shots.

76. Hat Rick - March 18, 2008

71, I couldn’t figure out what would so impress Starfleet cadets OTHER THAN a starship landing. It wouldn’t be fireworks, obviously. Everyone’s seen fireworks, and besides, their reaction was too close to shock and surprise, rather than delight, for it to be fireworks.

SPOILER: There were various alien species represented at the shoot, including one who looked suspiciously like the guys who played the windpipe instruments at the barscene in the original Star Wars (A New Hope). Smaller head, though. At the end of the very last shoot, when the extras were dismissed, the extra portraying this character quickly took off his one-piece prosthetic mask — it must have been incredibly stuffy in there!

77. Hat Rick - March 18, 2008

75, it might not have been Spock, then, but it WAS someone with prosthetic ears who looked like a Vulcan.

I do have various images at my disposal but obviously cannot post them here.

78. AdamTrek - March 18, 2008

#74

Yup, you’re right. If you mean Kentucky Bluegrass. If not, I have no idea what you’re talking about.

79. Diabolik - March 18, 2008

The article says: “It is known that Zachary Quinto (Spock) was not there as he is currently in Pennsylvania.”

That appears to contradict a post yesterday by our on-set spy: Hat Rick

“Well, I did say that they were shooting at CSUN, that Pine and Quinto were both on location, and that there was a cast of thousands. That was this morning.

There were numerous retakes of Pine and Quinto walking down the main exterior staircase of Oviatt Library (standing in for Starfleet Academy). During one of these takes, Kirk took not just one, but two looks at two beautiful brunettes crossing his path.”

Which is correct?

80. Diabolik - March 18, 2008

OKay, I just saw the recent posting addressing the discrepancy.

81. Hat Rick - March 18, 2008

79, I am willing to be corrected; if Quinto was in Pennsylvania yesterday, it was either a stand-in or another character who looked like a Vulcan that walked down the staircase yesterday.

82. Alex Rosenzweig - March 18, 2008

#53, 58 – Actually, it wasn’t the delta shield that was on the pennantry on the ships in TOS, it was the gold “boomerang”, a stylized version of which was seen as the Defiant’s insignia in “In a Mirror Darkly”. The delta shield didn’t become part of the ship markings ’til TMP, as well.

While it was clearly the intent in TOS that each unit assignment (ship, base, etc.) would have its own uniform logo, as has been noted before, the show wasn’t always consistent about it, and even as early as the ’70s, Franz Joseph was postulating that the delta was a standard design for the whole Fleet. As others have noted, it’s something that does make sense, and is a retcon that’s neither new nor particularly jarring. (This might be one of those cases, too, where the current team made one of their “Supreme Court” decisions regarding an inconsistency in TOS.)

83. Hat Rick - March 18, 2008

Please excuse the multiple postings, but here is something that just occurred to me upon reading 28’s assertion above that it was about the dedication of the Enterprise:

The “rush” scene would be consistent with either a starship (the Enterprise?) landing OR a starship (again, the Enterprise, perhaps) either rising into the air or somehow being revealed. So this lends credibility to the starship-dedication theory.

Question is, if this is so, did the Enterprise land at Starfleet Academy, or was the scene yesterday not of events at Starfleet Academy at all?

By the way, from what I saw, the angle at which the extras looked upwards was higher than the top of the eastern blue screen, suggesting that whatever they were looking at was high up in the sky (at maybe 30 to degrees azimuth). How close the object was supposed to be is up for debate as it did not exist in physical form at the location shoot and it appeared that the extras were simply asked to imagine that it existed and to react accordingly.

84. j - March 18, 2008

This movie is starting to look more and more like Aeon Flux.

85. Fallen_62 - March 18, 2008

I don’t know if I just missed it in the 81 post correspondence, but if you look at the second picture ( http://www.aintitcool.com/images2007/TrekSetBig2.JPG ) and you blow it up to full size, and you look in from the left side about 4 inches and down from the top about 8-10 inches, you see a man in plain clothes walking down the stairs… That’s not JJ, is it? Bears some resemblance to him at least, I think.

86. Hat Rick - March 18, 2008

A couple more things:

1. The futurized NX-01 was a framed print of a fairly elaborate painting and showed it passing through about several large planets and a small moon. I don’t know if it was a preproduction concept painting before the NX-01 design had been finalized for the series, Enterprise, but it didn’t look like it to me.

2. To the immediate left of the print of the futurized NX-01 was a framed photograph of what looked like the Navy Thunderbirds — a diamond formation of nine aircraft. I’m not sure of the model.

3. To the immediate right was a framed photograph of two NASA astronauts spacewalking right next to a large structure that looked like it was part of the International Space Station. This appeared to be an actual photograph. (The Boeing XB -48 photograph was hung above it.)

87. biodredd - March 18, 2008

Forgive my ancient memory, but I seem to recall somewhere perhaps in a book about the making of ST:TMP, Starfleet switched over to the Enterprise uniform symbol because the Enterprise was the only vesel of its class to return from its original five-year mission.

I’ll admit my memoryof this detail is sketchy at best, but in reading the vaious theories here, that jumped into my head as something I had read a very long time ago.

88. Jorg Sacul - March 18, 2008

Ok, just to make everyone happy… the reason for the arrowhead insignia in the courtyard and on the doors, that particular area of campus is “Enterprise Quad”.

Well, I just made that up. It’s fun making other Purist/Canonistas head’s explode! :-)

Nobody said WHICH ERA this academy scene is from, right? Maybe the scene where everyone is rushing to see the landing ship is Ambassador Spock arriving. (How’s that for plot twist theory?)

About that car/thing… isn’t that a motorcycle plate? can anyone chime in how this 3 wheeler is classified, auto or motorcycle?

89. Jon - March 18, 2008

Something something canon. Something something Enterprise. Something something Dark Side. Oops…wrong show. That’s right, I went there.

90. orion pirate - March 18, 2008

I like the uniforms. Might not be totally canon, but I have a feeling that there’s going to be a lot of little things that aren’t canon.

91. Robofuzz - March 18, 2008

I’m liking the respect for canon: miniskirts FTW!!

92. maspill - March 18, 2008

is the silver finnagan uniform a cadet uniform ? probably however it could be something else maybe so the red could be cannon or a passin out uniform maybe and also finnegan was older than kirk so it could have been a previous cadet uniform thats the thing with cannon u can usualy find ways around it

93. Irish Trekki - March 18, 2008

They look cool! I asways figured they used University campuses for alot of the outdoor shots of Starfleet command!

94. maspill - March 18, 2008

85 yeah i thought that too

95. Closettrekker - March 18, 2008

Canon? What is canon?

I am for you, Canon….

I don’t care if the uniforms are a different color. I hope they DO use that insignia on ALL Starfleet uniforms.

“Inconsistency” was a trademark of TOS. Just as it begun rather unsure of what century it was in, so it seems it was unsure of the policy on uniform insignia.

Spock used to smile and be “giddy” too. It was later established that the pinnacle insignia would be used for all of Starfleet. It is what it is.

Don’t ask Abrams and co. to be “consistent” with inconsistency…

96. The Quickening - March 18, 2008

Not trying to be overly pessimistic and negative, but I find the uniforms a little tacky and unimaginative, but perhaps a closer inspection will reveal more detail and creativity.

97. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) - March 18, 2008

Oops.

98. maspill - March 18, 2008

85 did you also see the woman wearin what appears to be a next gen uniform top with jeans ??

99. Devon - March 18, 2008

“but I find the uniforms a little tacky and unimaginative,”

If that’s the case… then it fits canon perfect!

100. thebiggfrogg - March 18, 2008

Yuk, what is with the hats? And the blah, ugly uniforms? They don’t look like Trek cadets, but fascist troopers from Starship Troopers or Star Wars Galactic Empire officers. I hope our stalwart crew does better. These look bland, stupid, and wrong! I’ve been onboard so far, but I hope there is more creativity in the other production values.

101. Gene Rodenberry's Ghost - March 18, 2008

There are several easy ways of removing any supposed continuity violations noted about these photographs.

All supposition on my part but they do shoot down the issues.

Since the NCC-1701 was first of the StarShip class, Starfleet chose to make the ship’s symbol the Starfleet Arrowhead.

All the rest of the Starship class got their own individual insignia.

As the number of ships grew rapidly since the first 14, they eventually retired individual ship insignia in favor of the Starfleet one.

Cadet tunics are silver, not red.

Assume that when Academy students are on a training cruise, they wear a modified version of the standard duty tunic to identify themselves as cadets..

Can’t use red, cause that’s support services. So, silver.

When at the academy, you wear red, in the field you wear silver.

See how easy that was.

Keep ‘em coming!

Tom

Sheesh.

102. Blowback - March 18, 2008

#100 – There might be a reason for that “fascist” look. Hasn’t there been speculation that the Starfleet is a bit more militaristic becase of timeline changes? That seems to ring a bell…

103. Captain Hackett - March 18, 2008

Hat Rick

Thanks for the updates! :)

Keep up good work! :)

104. AJ - March 18, 2008

That “futurized” NX-01 sounds like a geekster nod to the smattering of ST:E fans who must see Jonathan Archer dedicated our favorite E. I was against it a while ago, but am starting to warm to the concept as I revisit the show on video.

Is there a rule against posting links to fan photos? I would assume that Trekmovie.Com has politely declined to signed JJ’s non-disclosure agreement, and that Hat Rick could happily post them. Of course, then JJ puts Anthony in the flick he joins Cawley and Doohan in Landru-land. Would love to see that NX-01.

Also, that “arrowhead” logo is now officially iconic, and is branding. It’ll be on lunchboxes and toyboxes everywhere, so let’s welcome it as a retconned reality. Or we just conjecture that they went to ship-based logos later on.

105. Dif - March 18, 2008

Most of the time in TOS they showed different insignias for people at outposts…it would make sense that they would get a tad bored being isolated from people and might take up embroidery or modify their ‘insignia’ based on private jokes or events the isolated crews had to go through. Don’t really think its that big of a deal, really.

I mean, Klingons got bumps on their heads and I don’t recall any fans slitting their wrists because of it. Then again, that’s probably the sort of story no one wants to let out.

106. Captain Hackett - March 18, 2008

101

It is common for the movies to violate the continuity so get used to it.

107. Andy Patterson - March 18, 2008

Alright. The mini-skirts. I dig it.

108. AJ - March 18, 2008

102: You are right. We are supposed to see a souped-up battleship Enterprise at some point, and maybe this is it. Could explain the “futurized” NX-01 as well.

109. Hat Rick - March 18, 2008

Thanks, 103. This is all for fan enjoyment and I’m glad to see that there is so much interest in what’s going on.

110. MORN SPEAKS - March 18, 2008

I don’t like how the Enterprise symbol is now representative of all of starfleet. It didn’t become that way til’ the movies, enforcing the fact that the Enterprise crew was the shit. But my head is not exploding.

Definitely cool pics and any NX-01 news is always good.

111. Scott - March 18, 2008

Re: 82 Alex — Exactly right. Nice post. Accurate, even-tempered, tolerant of change, but knowledgeable about the facts.

Re: 87. Again, you’re right. Like you, I forget the source, but I’m thinking it’s the ST:TMP novelization. Regardless of the source, it points up a tradition of respecting continuity and coming up with reasonable explanations for deviation.

I’m part of the old guard, and I know, and have obsessed over, far more “canon” details than I probably should. I AM looking forward to the new film. I’m willing and happy to buy into the recasting of the classic characters in order to enjoy the film. Every time the new film hits the continuity nail on the head, I will smile. Every time it deviates, it will nudge me out of the Trek universe a bit.

As much as I think TWOK is not only the best Trek film, but an excellent film in its own right, there are things in it that nudge the continuity buff living inside my brain every time I watch it — Khan’s recognition of Chekov and the young California surfers in Khan’s coterie being the two main ones.

From what I’ve seen so far, this production is in fine hands, but I’ll love the movie and its makers that much more for every nod, homage, recreation, and exact copy they give me of my beloved Star Trek.

Scott B. out.

112. Kevin Tyler - March 18, 2008

That ‘rocket car’ is actually called an Aptera I believe. It is a hybrid that can get something like 300mpg and should be out soon.

113. BRING BACK MAX!!!The real future of humanity! - March 18, 2008

god ….now i want the movie to be out so the “whiners of cannon” and the ” purveyors of progress” can sit at the table and complain about what was wrong with JJ Abrams” Star Trek. I have some ideas on how it should be ,but I accept that it will be different. I just am curious to see how the next phase in this franchise will be. Well if this bickering about differences is any indication of the future of trek well I believe that it is done already! SO let us bring on a new vision of what the future of mankind should be…MAD MAX!!!!LOL:) We don’t need another hero….

114. Devon - March 18, 2008

#100 – Chill. You’ve said more about the uniforms than the uniforms themselves. Might be taking things a little too seriously.

115. maspill - March 18, 2008

where is this new nx 01?

116. Gene Rodenberry's Ghost - March 18, 2008

106 –

I’m with you, actually. My point was that even if there are canon inconsistencies which I expect, that those who get upset by them can usually find a work around if they’re interested.

Hence the “Sheesh!” at the bottom of my post.

Peace!

117. Brian - March 18, 2008

A beautiful spring day, miniskirts, and a flying car. Who can complain about anything?

118. Hal2814 - March 18, 2008

David Gerrold (of “Tribbles” fame) was a student at CSUN, many moons ago. I wonder what he’ll think when he sees his old campus onscreen as Starfleet Academy?

119. Jackson Roykirk - March 18, 2008

1. Kevin *** “Red cadet uniforms? Somebody should probably tell them that cadet uniforms are silver.” ***

Yeah, that’s right — Cadets wore silver uniforms (well, to be accurate, we only know Finnegan did…I’m not sure about the others), plus they still used “tapes” to store information, and the Earth as seen from orbit had no clouds in the atmosphere. Let’s hope Abrams is changing ALL of these things.

120. S. John Ross - March 18, 2008

Skirts! Skirts make me happy.

Not just in these pics … I mean in general.

121. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) - March 18, 2008

#111—-Scott, I can appreciate your love for continuity, but finding fault in Khan’s recognition of Checkov is a bit shaky. “Space Seed” was only about 50 minutes long, and Khan was on board longer than that! Koenig wasn’t on the show yet, but that does not mean that Checkov was not on board at all. It only means that, being an ensign, he wasn’t yet a bridge officer—or at least, the ship’s primary navigator. Just because we don’t “see” Khan interact with Pavel, doesn’t mean he didn’t.

Having said that, TWOK did make a big boo-boo. I am, of course, referring to Khan’s mistaken dialogue about the timeline.

“On Earth….200 years ago….I was a Prince, with power over millions.”

This is within the continuity of the original episode, but directly contradicts the establishment of the timeframe as being, “In the 23rd Century…” within the film. That, to me, is a continuity error, not the youthful appearance of some of Khan’s minions (after all, they are genetically enhanced).

122. maspill - March 18, 2008

surely when the film ends everything in it will now be cannon true or false !!?

123. Dr. Image - March 18, 2008

This board starts to become deja vu over and OVER again!!
Geeze!!
OK… they’re all redshirts and they’re all obviously doomed.
First!!!!!
(Cool car, though.)

124. BaronByng - March 18, 2008

I like it a lot. It seems more like old 1940s-1950s visions of what future uniforms would look like — very “Dan Dare, Pilot of the Future.” (google it).

So if we assume a rough design parallel with the 20th century, Kirk’s academy days would have been in the 2240s — and therefore it’s a clever retro inference from the 2260s uniforms — based on the real-world design evolution of how we *thought* the future would look.

So to me, it doesn’t break any canon or continuity; it’s filling in a gap in continuity in a very clever and consistent way. If they pay this much attention to detail here, I can’t wait to see the rest of the movie!

I mean in the real world, at least in Western countries, men still wore relatively formal hats everywhere until well into the 1950s…and we had detachable collars, mandatory undershirts and, before modern stretchy fabrics, sock garters…how quickly fashion changed after that.

125. Mickey MET - March 18, 2008

After giving this some thought over night, they are using the library as a set, not necessarily as a library. . .

With that said, perhaps the reason they delta emblem is being used, is this could be the scene where Pike leaves the command of the Enterprise to Kirk. . . .

It would keep canon in place and explain why the delta is flying everywhere you look. . . Whatdaya think?

126. Diabolik - March 18, 2008

Unless we have SEEN Starfleet academy and all of it’s various facets, no-one can claim that anything we see now or in the movie is against canon. They are creating canon as they film it. And even if something does contradict it, I am completely willing to see it done if it makes a better or more logical movie.

127. BaronByng - March 18, 2008

Oh, and the Aptera car is technically classified as a motorcycle; most 3-wheeled vehicles are. The options seem to be either an all-electric or plug-in hybrid powertrain (yay).

However, on their website, they say they’re working to exceed most automotive safety standards. Anything that can get 230mpg is definitely a step in the right direction — once tested and proven they should license the design to manufacturing partners worldwide.

that said, it’s healthier to live in a carfree, dense and walkable city than to have to drive in the first place. Ever notice how future cities in Trek seem completely pedestrianized, and you never see ground vehicles (well, maybe a monorail or something?) Like when Sisko visits his dad’s restaurant, or Harry Kim wakes up back in San Francisco? I know the transporter makes travel easy, but it’s also incredibly energy-intensive even by future standards, so it seems they’ve reorganized cities along much more local lines…i can’t imagine people commute to work in the 24th century :)

128. Mr. Atoz - March 18, 2008

I’ve always thought that the Arrowhead symbol was adopted sometime after the E’s 5 year mission for all of star fleet. However, the E was the flagship of starfleet and it makes sense that the NCC-1701 call letters with the “01” makes it the first one built and there-by having the starfleet logo as its own. I’m as big a purist as anybody, but I find this acceptable.

129. Hat Rick - March 18, 2008

One tidbit about the “futurized” NX-01: There are downward-sloping fins protruding from the belly of each nacelle and what seems to be some kind of gun-type thing where the main navigational deflector dish would be. The fins are fairly long — I woudl say about a quarter to a third the length of the nacelles themselves. It’s definitely not the NX-01 of the TV series.

130. maspill - March 18, 2008

WHERE IS THIS NX 01 !!! i need to see it

131. Gene Rodenberry's Ghost - March 18, 2008

128:

:D Like I said, with a little imagination it can all be explained away.

As for why a Chinese actor is playing a Japanese.

Simple explanantion?

Sulu was adopted.

132. Primogen - March 18, 2008

According to a post on the AICN article, this scene is for the NCC-1701’s dedication ceremony, where the Enterprise’s builders “hand off” the ship to the first crew.

The CSUN campus is a short drive from my house too, and I have a friend who’s doing the make-up for Simon Pegg, so I’m wishing I had asked her to clue me in to when they’re doing a location shoot (not that she would). I used to attend CSUN about thirty years ago, and while I was there, the (original) Battlestar Galactica series filmed in front of the Oviatt Library, using it as a Cylon base.

133. table10 - March 18, 2008

Hat Rick, you mentioned you had some spoiler pics that you couldn’t post here, is there anywhere you can post them, you know, for those who don’t mind being spoiled :)

134. Katie G. - March 18, 2008

Re: #97. Mr. Poopey face (formerly known as Closettrekker)

“Oops.”

LOL!

Have a good day.

kg

135. Daoud - March 18, 2008

#87, I think that’s in Roddenberry’s TMP novelization somewhere. Someone can probably check that…

ON the Delta… well, clearly someday Delta Airlines is the primary space plane operator, and becomes the UESPA. ;)

Seriously though, there are two other theories… one I think is in the Encyclopedia? That the shape is seen on a “Cochrane function graph” that describes the effective velocity/energy relationships going to higher and higher warp speeds… that you consume a lot more energy blah blah blah…

And the one I’ve enjoyed, is that Jonathan Archer signed his name with a big stylized A, that started in the lower right, swept to the top, down to the left, and curved back to the lower right, this making his A look like a rotated version of the UESPA and Starfleet delta.

Thus, of COURSE, any later Enterprise is going to use that “default” Starfleet symbol instead of creating a new one.

If they are really writing a sequence with olde Archer at the commissioning of April’s NCC 1701, they could even have Archer hand April the insignia….

Kills a bunch of stones with one bird.

136. Jorg Sacul - March 18, 2008

OMG!! Nobody noticed all the lights! They’re R2-D2 head domes! The infamy of it all!!!

137. Anthony Thompson - March 18, 2008

The building looks very so-so as a backdrop for a film set three centuries from now. In fact, it already looks very outdated. Consider how architecture has evolved during the past 300 years and then extrapolate how much it’ll change in the years to come. I’ve often wondered why Star Trek doesn’t shoot in an unusual, futuristic setting like Arcosanti in Arizona.

138. Red Shirt - March 18, 2008

Hat Rick…

Why can’t/won’t you post those pix? Here or elsewhere?

Thanks

139. Captain Hackett - March 18, 2008

no. 137

I am sure they will do some CGI magics to make those building bit futuristic.

140. Gene Rodenberry's Ghost - March 18, 2008

137 – Anthony,

Tell that to Oxford!

:D

141. E Plebnista - March 18, 2008

Scarlet & gray, eh? Looks like an Ohio State rally!

142. j w wright - March 18, 2008

looks like hotel bellhop academy.

why is the enterprise arrowhead on all the banners, and not the starfleet command insignia? (and why isnt it drawn correctly?)

is this student body to serve only on the 1701?

143. Scott - March 18, 2008

#121 – Mr. Poopey face, nee Closettrekker – yes, the continuity fiend gnawing away inside me long ago accepted the retcon of Chekov and Khan’s intimate relationship. And gee, thanks for reminding me of another continuity gaffe that the fiend feasts on! ;-)

I was just making the point that for the fans like me who look at every little detail of TOS and enjoy (for instance) taking all the little tidbits we have of Jim Kirk’s past and weaving them into an internally consistent timeline for the character, or who stared at the Star Trek Concordance or the Star Fleet Technical Manual for hours as wee little fantots, the little things like the delta shield being plastered everywhere in the new film will always cause us to sigh when we watch the new movie.

I don’t accept that I’m a hater of the new movie — which I haven’t seen and can’t judge — just because I like my olde timey continuity. It seems like some folks — not all! — want to relegate us to the rubbish bin for caring so much that we express our concerns on boards like this one.

Love and peace to all.

Scott B. out.

144. maspill - March 18, 2008

if they do have pics of prev Es and Es insignia i assume it is a ceremony for the new E rather than a passin out maybe these people are caddets at all

145. Mr J. MeOFF - March 18, 2008

Half the time so-called canon is inconsistent as has been pointed out numerous times. The insignia is one of those times. Get over it and try to give the movie a chance.

146. maspill - March 18, 2008

sorry arent caddets i meant

147. Devon - March 18, 2008

#138 – I do NOT mean to speak for Hat Rick, but it may be so that he doesn’t get in trouble himself, to which I don’t blame him. Don’t push your luck or anyone else’s on these types of things folks.

148. Devon - March 18, 2008

#142 – “why is the enterprise arrowhead on all the banners, and not the starfleet command insignia?”

This is being discussed heavily throughout this whole thing.

“(and why isnt it drawn correctly?)”

That’s trivial stuff.

“is this student body to serve only on the 1701?”

Not likely, may be a general graduating class if it is an academy thing at all. With people of all different ages and graduating years it’s not likely.

149. Devon - March 18, 2008

#132 “According to a post on the AICN article, this scene is for the NCC-1701’s dedication ceremony, where the Enterprise’s builders “hand off” the ship to the first crew.”

Isn’t that also the same post that claims that guy’s personal vehicle starts flying in the movie?

150. I Am Morg Not Eymorg - March 18, 2008

The gray uniforms with the hats remind me more of Forbidden Planet more than Star Wars Empire. Which would be a great nod to one of the major influences for Star Trek.

And all the uniforms look like dress uniforms. Who is to say they aren’t wearing the glittery silver shirts underneath? Or that they wear them in basic duty. For that matter, we know Finnegan was an upper classman. Perhaps its only worn by them. Many possible explanations that can make sense.

Same with the insignia as some have already. But honestly, the ship has sailed on that continuity glitch and it was Roddenberry and the makers of TMP that did it. And yes Gene mentioned the reason for the change in the novel but it was never mentioned in the movie. So there is no official ‘canon’ reason for it.

But the symbol now means Star Trek. So I have zero problem for it standing for starfleet. I liked the other insignias on the other ships. But it isn’t the end of the world that they are going to stay in the past with TOS.

Oh and let me add my huzzahs for the boots, the car, the unis, the banners and especially the skirts and go go boots!

151. number6 - March 18, 2008

Who’s to say that the delta shield can’t be used.

Stay with me here:

Kirk’s era academy days used the Delta Shield..

Enterprise is a good 20 years old by the time Kirk takes command.
Perhaps the 1701 was one of the first “Five Year Mission” starships and once other starships started to be used for the five year missions, the insignias were changed to avoid confusion.

Later Starfleet would go back to the delta shield to commemorate what Kirk and the Enterprise crew brought to the “Five Year Mission.”

It has also been implied elsewhere that there were those who said that the 1701 was the only ship to fully succeees (and survive) those missions.

152. Vulcan Soul - March 18, 2008

Yikes! The WAFFEN SS has invaded Starfleet Academy…

153. E Plebnista - March 18, 2008

You know, actually, the uniforms remind me of the Visitors. Maybe there’ll be a scene where Kirk unhinges his lower jaw and swallows a rat whole while Mike Donovan watches from the air duct.

154. Diabolik - March 18, 2008

For what it’s worth, a poster at AICN said:

Establish and crowd shots
by Jim Jam Bongs Mar 18th, 2008
03:25:50 AM
I can confirm that this was second unit work done for crowd and establishing shots. This is for a commencement event for the first crew of the Enterprise. The red people are the ship’s crew, and the grey people are the ones who built the Enterprise. It’s some kind of graduation ceremony where the ship is symbolically handed over from the builders to its first crew. The futuristic car will be cloned and appear as several parked flying cars surrounding the area — they moved it from one spot, filmed the crowd, then moved the crowd and car to other spots, repeat. This was second unit work. I know this because I have a fellow professional colleague who was there, so that’s all I can say. I do think that Bad Robot “leaked” this to AICN on purpose. It’s their standard MO for teasing the Internet community.

Again, for what it’s worth.. which may not be much, considering the source, where FanBoys Go To Hate What They Profess To Love.

155. number6 - March 18, 2008

SyfyPortal?

156. lwr - March 18, 2008

did you guys notice those uniforms??

they look very similiar in style to the CAGE/MENAGERIE ( the jacket over the tunic).

that is too cool!!

157. Fallen_62 - March 18, 2008

#98 The clash of the generations begin! ;)

158. the king in shreds and tatters - March 18, 2008

I don’t see any blue people.

159. Green-Blooded-Bastard - March 18, 2008

I saw the Kirk/Finnegan fight scene on TV yesterday and I may be mistaken, but Finnegan’s shirt looked silvery-blue, with nothing blue to reflect off of it. That being said..

THERE’S NO SUCH THING AS CANON IN A FICTIONAL WORLD. IT’S FICTION!!! THEY MADE IT UP, THEY’LL CONTINUE TO MAKE IT UP! IF KIRK FARTED TO THE LEFT IN TOS, AND NOW FARTS TO THE RIGHT, FARTING TO THE RIGHT BECOMES CANON.

And for those of you that think silver cadet uniforms are canon, NOT ANY MORE HAHAHAAA!!!!! They’re RED now, and I’m sure most of what you THINK is canon will be quite different by the end of the movie.

Btw, I hope when Shattner dies, he forgets to say “oh my” so all you shattner-humpers heads explode.

160. Devon - March 18, 2008

“The red people are the ship’s crew, and the grey people are the ones who built the Enterprise”

That sounds very iffy to me personally, but that’s just me.

“It’s some kind of graduation ceremony where the ship is symbolically handed over from the builders to its first crew.”

Which I have trouble with believing as well. Would that mean the entire crew start off as Ensigns????

“I know this because I have a fellow professional colleague who was there, so that’s all I can say.”

I don’t mean to discount this guys credentials, but that is AICN after all…

“he futuristic car will be cloned and appear as several parked flying cars surrounding the area — they moved it from one spot, filmed the crowd, then moved the crowd and car to other spots, repeat.”

Knowing what the car is.. I suppose the guy’s friend says they will also be using MacBook Airs to do their homework on as well?

161. Sam Belil - March 18, 2008

I totally love mini-dresses. But remember in “The Cage”, “Where No Man Has Gone Before” and a few episodes in season #1 (Charlie-X) — the women also wore pants.

162. Blowback - March 18, 2008

#159 – THERE’S NO SUCH THING AS CANON IN A FICTIONAL WORLD. IT’S FICTION!!! THEY MADE IT UP, THEY’LL CONTINUE TO MAKE IT UP! IF KIRK FARTED TO THE LEFT IN TOS, AND NOW FARTS TO THE RIGHT, FARTING TO THE RIGHT BECOMES CANON.

It’s a well know fact that Kirk farts to the left in the bottom half of the hour…

163. OneBuckFilms - March 18, 2008

I think there’s something very subtle in the costume designs here.

I noticed, among other things, that the skirts on the dark uniforms are longer than the skirts on th red ones.

It appears they are visually distinguishing between the two “generations” at the academy.

The older generation, the Grey-black uniforms, look like instructors and officers at the academy, teaching the students all they need to know for graduation. They have a very distinct 40s vibe, like the older generation.

The students, or cadets, in Red, have shorter skirts, and look more like the Starfleet uniforms of the original series.

I don’t think they are going for Facists, aka imperial officers from Star Wars, as has been suggested.

I think it’s aimed more at evoking an older generation, with the new generation trying new things, with more open minds, and boldly going where no man has gone before.

This is at the heart of Star Trek, and at the heart of the 60s. This movie might be a commentary on the 60s through the lens of Star Trek.

I am 99% sure that JJ Abrams has captured the very soul of both here.

164. Commodore Lurker - March 18, 2008

Decloaking . . .

MINISKIRTS !!!!! (fist pumps in air).

Cool car, I want one.

Recloaking.

165. Jon C - March 18, 2008

I’m all for school uniforms.

166. Drooling - March 18, 2008

Anyone else like the look of those female uniforms?

167. THX-1138 - March 18, 2008

Diabolic, your last line is the truest thing I have read so far. Not to take anything away from all the valuable and delicious stuff Hat Trick has posted.

For the canonistas, I put forth the following:

This is not TOS. TOS was a series in the sixties and six movies made from the seventies to the nineties. This is a retcon or a reboot or a re-imagining or a re-inventing or a reinvigorating. Whatever you want to call it. Everyone has a delta shield now because that makes more sense and just plain looks better than all the different mixed up insignias. That would be how I would explain it. And I can very easily live with that. I know it must be very frustrating for those who hate changes, but by the very nature of this project, some things must change.

168. AJ - March 18, 2008

143: Here’s to the “fantots.” LOL. I am 43, American, and sittting in Stockholm with my $5 Star Trek blueprints of the “Fabulous Starship Enterprise,” checking if Franz Joseph used the current arrowhead or the boomerang. I need to call my kids in New York and make dinner.

I don’t know, while some of us scream and yell about the Shat, ridges, Rom heads, Big E construction sites and STV as the best/worst Trek film, I simply love it (the site, not STV). I’ve only been involved under a year, and I hope Anthony can manage us through the extended waiting period, and that, perhaps, JJ will help just a bit with some official photos.

I am not quite sure if Trekmovie.com is secretly in league with Paramount/Bad Robot, but it is the current Trek site of record. I am satisfied and sometimes elated with its coverage of our “franchise,” and I assume Anthony et al spend lots of time and diplomacy maintaining the balance between pirate radio and official spokesman.

In many respects, Trekmovie.com has started to unite a disparate fanbase after the disgrace of ST10 and the cancellation of Enterprise during its greatest year. I hope we can make a difference and get the show back on TV, which is where Trek truly flourishes.

JJA needs a chance at success, and this film is it.

169. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) - March 18, 2008

#168—Yep!

As for the “fantots”, here’s to hoping this movie initiates more of them.

170. CmdrR - March 18, 2008

I want Rand as my study partner.

171. Blowback - March 18, 2008

I am happy to see the go-go boots myself. It sounds silly but I’ll be very impressed if JJ and crew can make that look work in the movie. To me it means that they are trying hard to to take as much inspiration from TOS as possible.

172. Jackson Roykirk - March 18, 2008

142. ***quote: “why is the enterprise arrowhead on all the banners, and not the starfleet command insignia? (and why isnt it drawn correctly?)”***

Do we even know what the “Starfleet Insignia” looks like in the TOS days? It has been suggested in several posts above that the Enterprise may have taken an insignia similar to that of Starfleet’s as it’s own, since the Enterprise was the Flagship of the fleet.

173. Mike - March 18, 2008

Neat.

Retconning the delta shield is okay by me.

I could do without the miniskirts, which always seemed kinda sexist.

More people need to read the comments to avoid blathering on about the same things over and over again.

174. TrekkyStar - March 18, 2008

Is this a Paramount joke?

175. Woulfe - March 18, 2008

Mini’s and go-go boots, there is a Great Bird after all isn’t there ?

Looks like another ILM crowd scene in the works, take 100 people make them look like 500, just like they did for Generations when they needed the crew out on the ship’s hull after the saucer crash landed there.

Only instead of a few thousand it’s a few hundred.

Isn’t this the same Campus that was used in TOS for the fake brain cells flying onto Nimoy’s butt episode ;) [ heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh ]

176. THX-1138 - March 18, 2008

#174

Yes. Everything is. Go back to bed.

Seriously, what are you talking about?

177. Matt Werny - March 18, 2008

That ship looks like the timepod from ( http://spacequest.wikia.com/wiki/Timepod ) from Space Quest 4. Perhaps there is a bit of an in-joke there.

I love it!

178. CmdrR - March 18, 2008

Ah, Starfleet Academy… can you imagine the bongs Scotty came up with?
And, no cramming. Just find a Vulcan grad student who needs a few credits and he can implant the final in your head.

179. bmar - March 18, 2008

Well, after carefully examining the photos…I can quite catagorically state that not only does this scene prove that they are adhering strictly to TOS canon, but that Kirk will be in the movie.

See for yourself:

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/wlmar/Canon.jpg

(wink, wink)

180. Britsh Naval Dude - March 18, 2008

arrrr…
That weird looking “car”… I recognize it! It’s me old Ford Prefect!
I wondered whatever happened to it… seems bigger … at least they cleaned it up and gave it a good wax…

and my, my, my… look at all tha Redcoats! We English seem ta be getting ready to take back our states, I guess.

arrrrr…

181. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) - March 18, 2008

#178—LMAO! Imagine Spock bent over an altar, yelling, “Thank you Sir, may I have another!”

Maybe that was Sulu….

182. Marian C. - March 18, 2008

-Well..Space Quest..Star Wars.. a red type of ..underware and some 60’s elements…should mantain the quality of an original ( futuristic..?!?..) trek movie…
Anyway i like the actors…

183. Myrth - March 18, 2008

#154 “Again, for what it’s worth.. which may not be much, considering the source, where FanBoys Go To Hate What They Profess To Love.”

Hmm sounds alot like trekmovie.com to me

184. Clinton - March 18, 2008

#179 Funny! (And quick, too!)

185. Hat Rick - March 18, 2008

138, I’m reluctant to post anything that might be deemed inconsiderate of the expectations of the producers and for that reason hesitate to post anything photographic. I have, for my personal use, a photographic and very brief videographic record of what happened because I simply happened to be on campus yesterday for completely unrelated reasons.

Regarding the Starfleet Academy versus launching controversy, it was my observation that the behavior of the cadets during repeated general takes of the entire plaza throughout the day was far more akin to students on campus than to a regimented, pre-planned event. For one thing, many of the extras were walking casually in pairs in all random directions. This strikes me as unlike the behavior you would expect if they had all been ordered to attend any kind of formal ship ceremony. (The U.S. Navy has a post-christening ceremony wherein upon the order, “Man the ship and bring her alive!” a large number of sailors that are already lined up and in formation race up gangplanks to populate the ship; there was nothing to suggest that what happened yesterday was a similar.)

186. Hat Rick - March 18, 2008

Correction: At 83, I said that, “By the way, from what I saw, the angle at which the extras looked upwards was higher than the top of the eastern blue screen, suggesting that whatever they were looking at was high up in the sky (at maybe 30 to degrees azimuth). ” Part of that was cut off. I should have said that it was “at maybe 30 to 45 degrees above the horizon and about 90 degrees azimuth).”

The extras closest to the eastern blue screen were clearly looking above the edge of the screen itself and it’s more than possible to me that the scene will be composited, rather than bluescreened, in postproduction so that this makes sense. However, this is mere speculation on my part, since the use of multiple crane shots (at the southwest corner of the Quad, near Sierra Hall, and at the opposite corner) makes the perspective they will use difficult to predict.

187. Rainbucket - March 18, 2008

I love canonista logic.

In TOS we see ONE cadet, Finnegan, in a silver uniform.

Therefore? ALL cadets wore silver uniforms ALL the time, and any other possibility is a canon violation. I am an expert! I saw the Finnegan episode!

People just get excited that they think they know something and momentarily feel empowered. It has nothing to do with the merits of the new movie, as art or as Star Trek.

188. Blowback - March 18, 2008

#185 – You will probably have to beat off the lawyers with a stout pole if you release the goods. Still I hope you can appreciate the skepticism of some…

189. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) - March 18, 2008

#187—Well put.

It is quite reasonable that engineering cadets might wear one color, and science/medical cadets another.

Or, plebes/midshipmen might wear one color, while upperclassmen wear another.

Still another possibility is that the red could be a more formal top, while the other is more of a utility uniform.

Personally, I don’t care, but it is obvious that some people require a little help to satisfy their need for “fanon”…Whatever color the uniforms are depicted as will be canon thereafter. This, IMO, is no different from the inconsistent presentation of which century TOS-era Star Trek exists. In the series, it is presented as being anywhere from 200-900 years in the future. However, the original films establish, rather contradictorily, that it is the 23rd Century. That is “canon”, is it not? This would not be the first film to completely contradict TOS “fanon”, so what is the difference?

As for the insignia, sometimes TOS-era officers wore a different emblem, and other times they had the same insignia as Enterprise crewmembers, regardless of their own affiliation. Either way they (Abrams and co.) play it, they will be contradicting one TOS episode or another.

Let it go people. “Canon” was always something to have fun with, not something to make you pull your own hair out…

190. Thomas - March 18, 2008

I live about a mile from CSUN and am planning to attend there this fall. This is the first I have heard about Trek shooting there. If I had known about this sooner, I would have wandered over and try to get some pictures.

191. Hat Trick - March 18, 2008

188, thanks for the good advice.

Thank goodness that as far as I know, my memories are my own, and I can pretty much remember what happened yesterday and there’s nothing to say that I can’t talk about it. I’m not beholden to any confidentiality agreement.

SPOILER: The very last thing I remember the extras doing as a group was assembilng on the exterior steps of the main library / Starfleet Academy as if posing for a class picture.

There was, toward the end of the production day, also a photographer who was aiming his SLR-type camera about a foot from the exterior wall of Oviatt Library and directly at it. I can only speculate that he was taking some reference shots so that the SFX people could reproduce it as background for postproduction.

I can confirm that breakdown of the props and production equipment was virtually complete as of this morning; one of the last things to be carted off was the faux kiosk they were apparently using to block the view of 20th-Century accoutrements such as electrical boxes. The kiosk was hollow and made of wood. The silvery boxlike things embedded on the kiosk were actually aluminum heat sinks of some kind — like the kind you see for heavy-duty car stereio amps. (Hope this doesn’t spoil the illusion!)

192. Captain Amazing!! - March 18, 2008

Two to one they’re pointing to the Enterprise launching.

193. The Vulcanista - March 18, 2008

Late to the party today!

#87: I remember reading that too in one of “The Making of” books.

Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|

194. I Am Morg Not Eymorg - March 18, 2008

172. Jackson Roykirk: I would guess that the star burst symbol that Commodores Mendez, Stone and Stocker et all wore. As they were all administrative and on Star Bases or going to Star Bases that would seem to indicate that possibility.

I have no problem with the Delta supplanting it.

195. Orb of the Emissary - March 18, 2008

My brother and I live almost 20 minutes from campus! We could of so checked it out! GGGRRRR… :-(

196. Jorg Sacul - March 18, 2008

Here’s something to ponder. Is Star Fleet dumb enough to crew a brand new starship, the mightiest built yet…with an unseasoned bunch of nuggets? When the Navy rolls out a new aircraft carrier, do they load up at Annapolis? I don’t think so.

There are too many unknowns here. I guess in May, we’ll know what’s what.

By the way, I expect the first real Star Trek trailer in May, with the release of Indiana Jones IV. It would make perfect sense, to daisy-chain the two products together.

197. Captain Otter - March 18, 2008

I can’t believe I read this whole thread. At several points, I expected my head to explode.

Does the phrase “missing the forest for the trees” mean anything to the canon crowd?

198. Hat Rick - March 18, 2008

About the uniforms: There are at least three configurations of uniforms that I saw yesterday:

1. The red uniform (male and miniskirt female version, the latter with medium-height black go-go boots not unlike the kind Uhura used to wear);

2. The gray uniform with the “Imperial Star Destroyer” officer caps; and,

3. A gray uniform with a more formal headwear like the kind military officers and law enforcement personnel wear today.

The above is also the order of the apparent age of the actors who wore them — i.e., the third configuration was worn by the oldest-looking actors.

The headwear in the third configuration featured the official emblem of the Federation as its crest — the one with a blue starfield surrounded by laurel leaves.

Several of the personnel wore what looked like two-color metallic or metallic-looking badges that had mroe than a passing resemblance to the classic arrowhead design for Enterprise personnel.

199. S. John Ross - March 18, 2008

My main prediction based on these shots is that they’ll use CGI to improve the quality of those scraggly lawns, to reflect 23rd-century improvements in lawn-care technology :)

[This is not meant as a slight against the real-life learning institution used; I can't imagine how difficult it must be, with our own decidedly less-than-23rd-century lawn technology, to keep a lawn looking even THAT good when you've got students tramping all over it every day]

Plus: Yay skirts!

200. Diabolik - March 18, 2008

“The headwear in the third configuration featured the official emblem of the Federation as its crest — the one with a blue starfield surrounded by laurel leaves.”

I used to have a hat with that on it! Wish I still did. Anyway, that’s a good sign, I always liked that design.

201. Hat Rick - March 18, 2008

Connection with the Royal Air Force:

I found the following illustration of an RAF headgear on the Internet. Substitute the RAF crest with the Federation emblem and you have a very good approximation of the headwear for the third configuration I mentioned above at 202. (Does this mean that the RAF is folded into Starfleet? Perhaps — and so would be the USAF and every other national air force, one hopes….)

Here is the image I found:

http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/ishop/images/877/HAT-RAF-MENS.jpg

202. CmdrR - March 18, 2008

Since we’re talking unis, it might be fun if they work in some ‘miracle fabric’ details, showing how the unis are good in all weather, absorb unsightly sweat, and always smell nice. There was a nice bit in “Ensign Ro” where she removed her tunic, revealing a never explained 24th century zipper/velcro/moleculor bonding mechanism. Maybe that director got tired of seeing the idiotic zipper along the back of those otherwise snappy uniforms.

203. CmdrR - March 18, 2008

Please, no rocket boots!

204. Britsh Naval Dude - March 18, 2008

tha RED!
Oh it hurts me eyes!

What type of half-arsed military organization would outfit their people in bright red?

Oh….

Oh…I fergot… me own lovely British redcoats…

Come on. No wonder tha redshirts got slaughtered… like a bullfight… see tha red… GET tha red!

No worries… still seems like a bonny movie ta be sure….ya commie pinkos…

: ) all in love, arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

205. bill hiro - March 18, 2008

“but COME ON…why not be grateful we have something new coming down the pike?!”

Why should I or anyone be GRATEFUL, like somebody is doing me a favor by making this movie? It will be good, bad, or mediocre, but this is an endeavor to (a) make money NOW and (b) make money in the future on “the franchise”. If the movie is good, I will certainly appreciate it and enjoy it, but to tell me that i need to be GRATEFUL that wealthy people are making a movie for a super-wealthy corporation in the hopes of making more money AND I haven’t even seen frame one of said movie, seems like a real stretch to me. I am not going to be guilted into not being a cheerleader for a movie that I haven’t even seen yet! How about a dose of common sense instead!

206. Britsh Naval Dude - March 18, 2008

204 Grand! Just wanted ta repeat it: “Plus, it’s an excellent time for establish and foreshadow Kirk’s lust for the Enterprise.”

arrrrr

207. NTH - March 18, 2008

re-59 Red shirts on cadets,opps perhaps they pointing towards a falling piece of space debris which destroys starfleet acadamy resulting in starfleet changing the cadet’s uniforms to a silver one! Just joking,these new scenes look very well,I wish I could have attended that academy,it looks cooll !

208. sean - March 18, 2008

The car is an Aptera, right? Those suckers are supposed to get 230 mpg!

209. Irish Trekki - March 18, 2008

I wonder if the different colour uniformes refer to a different graduating year. It’s silver for one year, red for another, green and so on…….. anybody?

210. Captain Robert April - March 18, 2008

A few notes.

The Enterprise was NOT the flagship during the original series. That nonsnese didn’t start until TNG.

There is probably a way to figure out a system by which the Enterprise delta was, at one point, a general Starfleet insignia, then later, every ship had its own distinct insignia, with the Enterprise retaining the delta, then by the time of TMP, Starfleet went back to the delta (although the fine folks who were reduced to .jpg’s at Epsilon 9 were wearing unique insignias on their uniforms.

Oh, and as to why we feel so confident extrapolating from Finnegan’s uniform? Because it’s a UNIFORM!! As in “THE SAME AS EVERYONE ELSE!!” Or at least the same as a lot of others (that same uni showed up on a background guy in the bar fight in “The Trouble With Tribbles”, although he looked a tad old for the Academy).

And if they are seriously thinking of launching the Enterprise FROM THE FREAKIN’ GROUND! then we are heading right back to “I ain’t goin’ to this one” territory.

211. Spockanella - March 18, 2008

There once was a director named JJ
Who messed with the Great Bird’s baybay
Said “I’ll take his design
and replace it with mine
and drive all the purists crazy!”

212. Irish Trekki - March 18, 2008

#211
Have you met Harry Ballz……?

213. GeneralChang - March 18, 2008

lookin’ a lot like starship troopers

214. THX-1138 - March 18, 2008

I heard the sky was falling. Any news?

215. Harry Ballz - March 18, 2008

Spockanella, nice limerick!

216. Dennis Bailey - March 18, 2008

#210 : ” it’s a UNIFORM!! As in “THE SAME AS EVERYONE ELSE!!” Or at least the same as a lot of others (that same uni showed up on a background guy in the bar fight in “The Trouble With Tribbles”, although he looked a tad old for the Academy).”

Wherein you manage to make an empty claim for generalization from a single instance and then blow it to smithereens within two meandering sentences.

Gotta love the fandom. Well, okay, no we don’t.

217. Ryan Spooner - March 18, 2008

Lets see if we can settle the whole “Delta insignia at the academy is not canon” debate shall we.

According to the “Star Trek Star Fleet Technical Manual” produced in 1991 (ISBN: 1-85286-396X), the delta shield is used by all the armed forces in Star Fleet. See this page: http://www.tcln.com/s.jpg

This document bears no mention of the delta shield just belonging to crew of the enterprise.

218. Dennis Bailey - March 18, 2008

Sorry, but the “Star Fleet Technical Manual” was first published in 1975.

While it has been reprinted many, many times, it has never been revised or updated to reflect any Trek after the original series.

It was drawn, designed and written by someone who did not work on “Star Trek,” although he may have spoken with one or more of the artists and producers at some point.

In short, the Tech Manual is a nice piece of work which isn’t “canonical” in any way. A few of the drawings and designs in it were eventually adopted for use as background imagery in a couple of the Trek movies, which makes them part of onscreen continuity, but that’s it.

219. M-BETA - March 18, 2008

Looks like a graduation day to me rather than a regular day at the Academy.

That could be an explanation to the Silver/Red argument.

Silver as a training cadet
Red as a formal dress for Graduation Day.

All the teachers wear Silver/Grey as their formal dress for Graduation and when they teach, they wear their usual colors.

220. Ryan Spooner - March 18, 2008

“While it has been reprinted many, many times, it has never been revised or updated to reflect any Trek after the original series.”

That’s my point, this document was written based on information available at the time of TOS. Does anyone else have any other contradicting evidence regarding the use of the delta shield in the TOS era? Also I think Franz Joseph did a little more than just “speaking to” some of the artists and producers. The information in this book is fairly in depth. It has the entire “Articles Of The Federation” printed in it, as well as the fabric cut out guide for Star Fleet uniforms and exact colour charts.

221. Xai - March 18, 2008

215. THX-1138 – March 18, 2008
“I heard the sky was falling. Any news?”

Still falling… news at 11.

222. Hat Rick - March 18, 2008

The idea that it’s a graduation ceremony is interesting, but, again, the behavior of the cadets doesn’t necessarily support that. When I think of a graduation ceremony, I think of a pretty well-ordered event. People are dressed to the nines and act formalistically. While the red (crimson) uniforms are nice, I don’t think of them as particularly formal, and it didn’t seem to me that the cadets acted in a particularly formal way, either. No hats were thrown either, needless to say.

I don’t mean to imply by my comment about the “class picture” that this was a graduation ceremony. For all I could tell, it might have been for the Starfleet yearbook. Or it could even have been that the producers wanted a group photo of the extras, although this is fairly unlikely (I’ve never heard of such a practice).

The shoot continued for a little while after the extras were dismissed. Not sure if this was for pick-up shots or not, but I thought I saw a lone cadet or two walking down the main exterior staircase in a somewhat dramatic way.

By the way, watching over the entire production was a detachment of police officers, one of whom struck me as a virtual doppelganger of a certain engineer named Scotty in his later years.

223. Alex Rosenzweig - March 18, 2008

#220, 222 – Franz Joseph had, at he time, a very close relationship with Gene Roddenberry, one which ended in the ’80s, IIRC. But I think Ryan’s point is a good one. It’s not that anyone’s claiming the Tech Manual to be canonical; it’s that the idea of the delta shield as a Fleetwide insignia was already in play only a few years after TOS was cancelled.

224. Alex Rosenzweig - March 18, 2008

[Blink...] Looks like something got deleted while I was writing my last post. Make that 218 and 220, then. ;)

225. Dennis Bailey - March 18, 2008

#220: “That’s my point, this document was written based on information available at the time of TOS. Does anyone else have any other contradicting evidence regarding the use of the delta shield in the TOS era?”

It was based on Franz Joseph’s observations based on material publicly available at the time rather than any access to the studio’s material or records, and was recognized even then as containing significant errors relative to the actual props, designs etc (check out the phaser drawing. Most of this was based on publicity stills and the photos contained in “The Making Of Star Trek,” which were dark and inaccurately cropped).

” Also I think Franz Joseph did a little more than just “speaking to” some of the artists and producers. The information in this book is fairly in depth. It has the entire “Articles Of The Federation” printed in it, as well as the fabric cut out guide for Star Fleet uniforms and exact colour charts.”

The “Articles of The Federation” were fabricated by FJ by cribbing the charter of the United Nations – they didn’t come from Roddenberry, Paramount or anyone associated with “Star Trek.” Similarly the fabric cut-out guide, colors etc were extrapolations Joseph made, entirely on his own, from photographs. The fabric patterns, for instance, are not at all accurate to the patterns used on the TV series – nor are many of the color references.

On the available record, there’s little to suggest that Joseph spoke directly with Roddenberry or anyone who worked on “Star Trek” while he was putting the TM together. I’m being generous by assuming that some letters may have gone back and forth at some point – in fact, Joseph was dealing directly with Ballantine Books in New York, and Paramount exercised only the most cursory of approvals on the project.

226. sean - March 18, 2008

That silver disco outfit that Finnegan wore looked absurd. It was as if my grandmother went wild with her BeDazzler™. Please, by all means, let’s ignore THAT particular piece of canon! :)

227. Seemore Butts - March 18, 2008

It sounds like there’s going to be an attack or something else significant travel by or to the academy… Sounds the beginning of some good action scenes ala Kirk saves the day…

The more I hear about the movie the more excited I am. I can’t wait!

228. Dennis Bailey - March 18, 2008

Interviews with Joseph, his daughter, and a timeline of his interactions with Roddenberry are available at http://www.trekplace.com. Based on all evidence, to say that he had a “close” relationship with Roddenberry would be wrong – he had occasional, cordial exchanges with Roddenberry during the time he was working toward publication, mainly based on GR’s commercial interest in possibly marketing his drawings through Lincoln Enterprises.

The “cordiality” apparently went out of it fairly quickly when they tried to work together on “Planet Earth,” based on issues of ownership of Joseph’s designs for the show.

Joseph lays out his research and reference process for drawing the Manual pretty clearly in those interviews. His information didn’t come from the folks working on the show but from public sources. His plans and drawings were presented to GR pretty much as completed work and a publishing fait accompli – Roddenberry didn’t own the rights to license “Star Trek” material, Paramount did.

Joseph’s daughter sums the situation at the time of the Tech Manual up as follows:

“GR had negative feelings toward FJ for several reasons. (1) GR had wanted to publish and distribute the Ship’s Plans and Tech Manual through Lincoln Enterprises, his wife’s (Majel Barrett’s) business. When GR would not give FJ straight answers over who owned the rights to Star Trek (or finalize marketing plans after nearly a year of discussions), FJ went over GR’s head and queried Paramount Pictures about said rights. At that point, Paramount took over the negotiations, hooked FJ up with Ballantine Books, and collected the resulting royalty payments instead of GR. “

229. Hat Rick - March 18, 2008

Here is a photo of the futuristic vehicle used yesterday at CSUN. It looks exactly like the Aptera, a real vehicle.

In the background is the planetarium building where it was parked during lunch.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3254/2343567613_401f44723b.jpg?v=0

230. Hat Rick - March 18, 2008

Sorry — I mean that it was parked next to the planetarium building, as depicted, during lunch.

231. S. John Ross - March 18, 2008

Pardon me for sounding lazy, but I haven’t seen the whole Finnegan episode in ages … is it actually stated on screen that he’s wearing a cadet uniform (instead of just some ridiculous civilian gear in a style he likes … or a style Kirk imagined he would like)?

I’m not suggesting anything one way or another, and I normally don’t like to slip down into the mud of canon discussions anyway (because I don’t care), but all this talk has made me curious: is it _really_ canon that it was a cadet uniform, specifically and explicitly?

232. Hat 'Rick - March 18, 2008

The AICN photos appear to have been taken from about the third or fourth floor in one of the open-air stairwells of Sierra Hall — probably the northern one that goes all the way up to the eighth or ninth floor. The obstruction was apparently caused by the diamond-shaped grid fencing that closes the stairwell off to prevent things (or people) from falling out of it. The photos look eastward across the Quad. Available to me are several photographs taken from the eighth floor.

However, the following was taken looking southward across the Quad and near ground level.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24797206@N03/2343648381/

233. Denise de Arman - March 18, 2008

These pictures are the coolest since first seeing Quinto dressed up as a young Spock – yeah mini-skirts!

234. Space Madness - March 18, 2008

“Now Zoidberg’s the popular one!”

This is going to be so far down, I doubt anyone will read it but, here goes:

“Is there anyone here with familiarity with and other organizations? How do symbols like this evolve and get adopted?” – (K)night

I served in the Air Force for a few years and I’ve seen symbols be one way for awhile only to be deemed in violation of regulations later. Case in point; my local Maintenance Squadron had worn a triangular unit patch for as long as anyone remembered, a new chief showed up and declared that their patch should be round, like everyone else’s unit patches. Ultimately, it didn’t change; but all it really takes is one officer of sufficient rank to get a wild hair up his ass, and “poof” you’re spending a few bucks getting new patches sewed on.

The Navy employs warfare specialist badges for Surface Warfare Specialists (surface ships), Submarine Warfare Specialists, Special Warfare (S.E.A.L.S.), etc. It seems that the insignia first employed in Star Trek II is the rough equivalent; it would signify some kind of specialty, unfortunately everyone wears it so it seems it’s just a “atta-boy” for graduating the academy, similar to the Marines “Eagle, Globe and Anchor” insignia.

TOS Starfleet insignia seem to serve a dual role as a unit patch and a functional badge. Though a functional badge would be more distinctive than just Command, Sciences, Operations, and Medical; it would contain your specific specialty.

A way to explain Starfleet’s various unit patches may be that at one point everyone wore the same, with no explicit regulation on the patch – other than that it must display their duty division – Starfleet captains may have taken creative license. If they’re anything like the Air Force, and Starfleet decided that the amount of ship patches had gotten out of hand; they would have just changed it, made it mandatory, and not really cared about whether anyone’s feelings got hurt. But there is no equivalent type of patch in the modern military…and this is Star Trek; so it’s really a moot point.

235. Hat Rick - March 18, 2008

234, nice comment. Another thing that occurs to me is that the issue of miniskirts goes to the question of fashion. Sometimes what is old is new again, as they say. Narrow ties went out in the 1970’s but came back a decade later.

This could also explain why Oviatt Library is deemed modernistic enough for Starfleet Academy.

Another is that by the 23d Century, the 1960’s design of the library may be deemed classic, the same way that Victorian designs might be “in” today. Certainly it wouldn’t be the first time that an old design is used for a brand new building — the Capitol Building and the White House were both based on Classical designs from around two thousand years before they were built.

By the way, here is the revised link to the Quad photo:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2372/2344540284_eda74895ec.jpg?v=0

236. jason in ormond beach - March 18, 2008

finally some movie news on trekmovie.com

237. Daniel Broadway - March 18, 2008

More spy shots here from the same location here….

http://www.12ozprophet.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6208053

238. Hat Rick - March 18, 2008

238, you can see the Aptera look-alike behind the light fixture in the first of those photos, next to the stone-clad pillar of the library in the second one, and behind the futuristic kiosk in the third.

All of the photos appear to have been taken with a cell phone camera from the fourth floor of Oviatt Library.

239. LoyalStarTrekFan - March 18, 2008

The images are interesting and the white car is almost identical to what William Shatner described in his latest book “Star Trek Academy: Collision Course,” which I think is pretty cool.

Now, about continuity. I’ve read some fans say things like “the delta symbol is easily recognizable as STAR TREK and it makes sense to have one symbol for all of Starfleet so it’s okay to use it as such in this film even thought, according to canon, it was only the symbol of the Enterprise.” However, this consideration was not given to Rick Berman or “Star Trek: Enterprise” when they named the ship Enterprise, or the weapons Phase Pistols/Phase Cannons, etc. even though these names were easily recognizable as STAR TREK and that’s the most likely reason they chose those names. Further, the Phase Pistol/Cannon was designed to be a precursor to the Phaser yet “fans” hounded their every step because it “violated canon.” I find this interesting. Yet I digress.

I agree it makes sense for Starfleet to use one insignia across the organization and I never liked the flower symbol worn by Command officers (the Commodore (Cdre.) in “The Ultimate Computer”) and Cadet Finnegan. The “flower” symbol always reminded me too much of the “flower power” of the 60’s! The use of a single symbol for Starfleet also makes sense realistically. Look at the seals/emblems used by the U.S. government and you will see that they haven’t changed much or at all since the U.S. was created in 1776. (Several were created as the government grew and new agencies were created, but you get my point.) The U.S. seal is identical to the one created all those years ago, as is the U.S. Coat of Arms which can be found at every American embassy in the world. The same goes for many nations. As a result, the idea that Starfleet would change their symbol (not to mention the UFP) multiple times just doesn’t make sense. There is also a plausible explanation as to why the Enterprise used the Starfleet delta: since the Enterprise is Starfleet’s flagship it seems reasonable that Enterprise would use the Starfleet’s symbol to represent it’s unique position in the fleet.

240. LoyalStarTrekFan - March 18, 2008

Space Madness,

I found your post interesting and I didn’t know about that when I made my comment about government emblems in my post which is #240. To clarify, my comment was in regards to seals like the official Dept. of the Air Force seal, or the DOD seal, DOJ seal, Dept. of State seal, etc. These have not changed as far as I know. If anyone knows differently please feel free to correct me.

As for Starfleet, I think the ship seals are like NASA mission patches. Each mission in NASA has it’s own symbol just like each ship has it’s own symbol in TOS Starfleet. However, the NASA Seal remains the same and does not change, quite possibly like Starfleet’s seal.

241. LoyalStarTrekFan - March 18, 2008

correction: My first post was #239

242. Irishtrekkie - March 18, 2008

hmm i am surpised we dont see a really detailed pictures of the uniform now , i mean as long as we blur the face our their is no way the actor can get in trouble , lol come on some extra , take pictures when nobody is looking

243. Irishtrekkie - March 18, 2008

http://www.aptera.com/media.php

i want one ! lol , there kinda cool and have a weird suttle look to them ,

244. Devon - March 18, 2008

Hat Rick – Was that car part of the shooting that you could tell? If it is that would be an indication of product placement? A very odd one.. but yeah.

245. Hat Rick - March 18, 2008

244, I was about to say a few minutes ago that the car is not only an Aptera lookalike, but on second thoughts, I believe that it WAS an actual Aptera. I had the opportunity to look inside and I saw the exact same screen that you seen in the video at aptera.com which, for a moment, shows the interior of the vehicle, facing forward.

The vehicle was also plugged in to a wall (and you can see the cords in the photo) during its downtime, in the same manner indicated by the aptera.com video.

246. Hat Rick - March 18, 2008

I also should say that there is very small signage (if that’s the right term) on the vehicle itself stating, “Designed by 11,” and the “11” is in white text in a black box. The signage is not visible in the photo because it’s far too small; it’s lettering no more than an inch tall located just above the bottom front edge of at least one of the passenger doors, if I’m remembering correctly. White tape between half an inch to about one inch wide was also applied in various places to hide what might have been minor scratches, manufacturing marks, or cosmetic deviations.

247. Irishtrekkie - March 18, 2008

well yea it looks like its an aptera for sure , so if its in the movie that would be cool , i must say as product placements go i am happy with this one , the car looks real ( cause well it is ) , and its furturtic and retro , so it fits in well i think

248. Devon - March 18, 2008

245 – That’s cool. You got to see alot of goodies it seems!

What I’m curious about was if it was actually shot for the movie is what I’m curious. The AICN person claims that they shot everyone in one group, with the car, and then moved everyone and the car several times as supposedly the car will show up as “Several parked cars” in the movie.

249. Devon - March 18, 2008

Oh I also ask because in the pics that Daniel at #237 linked to, it looks like it’s there in some of the shots.

250. Hat Rick - March 18, 2008

247, agreed — it was cool, indeed.

248, the AICN person could have been correct; I was not continuously present. I can only say that what I saw was as follows:

1. The vehicle was driven along the east-west driveway south of the Quad to time exactly with the walk down the exterior staircase in that scene I referred to as involving Pine and Quinto (although now I’ve been told that Quinto wasn’t actually there; it must have been a look-alike). This was done in such a way so that as the camera swung clockwise from focusing on the pair of them walking down the stairs to follow the action as Pine stopped abruptly and in such a way as to face Pine, the vehicle’s passage would have been visible behind him. This scene was repeatedly a number of times and the vehicle was driven east to west correspondingly. The vehicle sometimes stopped short and returned to its starting place right next to the planetarium building when the director called for a return to places for whatever reason.

2. The vehicle was driven along the same path in both directions during various general takes.

It’s entirely possible that the vehicle was actually parked in a number of different places for the purposes indicated by the AICN account despite the fact that I didn’t see it.

One more thing by way of correction: The signage I described above was actually at the bottom corner of the side windows; you can just see it as a smudgy gray line in the above photo.

251. Devon - March 18, 2008

Hmmm okay, a possible “background” object for a lack of better term! Thanks HR!

252. MORN SPEAKS - March 18, 2008

Jason from Ormond Beach! I’m Morn Speaks from Port Orange!

253. Hat Rick - March 18, 2008

No problem, 251. Thank you for your questions. I love reading this site both because of the Trek and other news it contains and also because of interesting comments and questions like yours.

254. Dr. Image - March 18, 2008

#228 Dennis- Good summation of the FJ situation.
The more accurate the info put out here is, the less uninformed blabbing occurs.

Those uniforms look cool. That’s part of what Trek is in need of. “Ironman-movie-trailer-style” coolness. An attitude.
And good writing, of course.
With that kind of mix, many canonic sins would be forgiven and forgotten.

255. Negotiator - March 18, 2008

Mini skirts, boots, red uniforms, wait a minute, we are supposed to be talking about the future, by the 24th century we should have evolved past our current hung ups. I see people exploring the galaxies in the buff! No bald people, sorry Pickard. No accents, sorry Chekov and Scotty. No acne scars, sorry Sulu. No shuttles or sprints to the bridge from the transporter room or ladders inside the Enterprise. If in a hurry straight beam ups into the bridge or that secluded engineering section about to blow up unless a switch is flipped. No “green stuff” to drink since booze is no longer craved. No analog screens, heck we are about to go full digital and we just started the 21st, Century. Full holographic 3D displays will only do. JJ baby, let’s do lunch. :)

256. Hat Rick - March 18, 2008

Well, let’s look at the last 300 years. Certain things remain because they are practical.

1. The theory that we should dispense with clothing. Yes, but not in public or in the workplace (unless in a very specific kind of workplace, I suppose). Even today our astronauts are fully clothed despite the fact that many of our actresses on television are not.

2. Baldness: Why not a choice?

3. Accents: Do we not have accents just as people three hundred years ago did?

4. Acne scars. You may have a point there.

5. Site-to-site transport: I think it’s been acknowledged that that’s still and iffy proposition even in the 24th Century. Who are we to criticize that? The most we can do today is transport a beam of light, and even at that, barely the length of a laboratory bench.

6. “Green stuff”: Synthehol.

7. Holoscreens: Holosuites. And I think that the viewscreens might indeed be three-dimensional — just subtly so. There is also something vaguely disconcerting about having an enemy beamed directly onto your bridge even if only by 3d hologram; it must be the same reason that videophones have taken so long to catch on.

And yes, I do realize that you’re being tongue-in-cheek, 255. Likewise.

257. S. John Ross - March 18, 2008

I refer everyone once again to post #231, in hopes that someone here has the episode handy? Help! I’m being consumed by idle curiosity, and if that isn’t a bland way to die I don’t know what is :)

258. Harry Ballz - March 18, 2008

If I had to guess I would say it’s a cadet uniform…

259. sean - March 18, 2008

#257

It seems implied, given that Finnegan picked on Kirk in the Academy, and the Shore Leave Planet snatched things out of each person’s memory or imagination to create the people they interacted with. It could be that Kirk merely imagined Finnegan might wear that outfit in whatever direction his life might have taken, but it’s more likely it was simply Finnegan as Kirk remembered him from the old days. It had a Starfleet patch on it, so it seems like a logical jump that it was a cadet uniform.

That being said, I refer you to my post #226 – Finnegan’s ‘cadet uniform’ looked like crap on crap crackers, even back then. I’d be happy if they ignored it.

260. Cranston - March 19, 2008

Hat Rick —

That “Star Wars Cantina” – looking alien wouldn’t have been one of these, would it?

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Betelgeusian

261. Hat Rick - March 19, 2008

260, the coloration appears different in the Memory Alpha pictures. The one at the shoot was flesh-colored. The nose, ears, and mouth were also different, and the cheeks did not have that angular look.

262. David P - March 19, 2008

CSUN location shooting? Hmmmm….Doesn’t Shat live in the valley?

263. EnsignJack - March 19, 2008

Cool, those are obviosly red cadet uniforms!

264. Diabolik - March 19, 2008

A whole lot of people will have wasted a whole lot of time and worrying if there is a simple explanation for the use of the delta sheild.

And they’ll still have wasted it if there isn’t.

265. bmar - March 19, 2008

Re: My own message #179

Geez, you guys are no fun. Here I am, frittering away my work hours, having a little fun with Photoshop (come on, you have to love the shadows, right?) Just to bring a smile to all of your faces, and no one notices?

I’m crushed.

:(

266. Diabolik - March 19, 2008

#265… good work! Show your bosses, they’ll love it too! :)

Seriously, there is so much hand-wringing and hair-pulling over miniscule issues here that most efforts like that are passed over.

Anyway, I like it!

267. Hat Rick - March 19, 2008

Bmar, for what it’s worth, might I say that that was a very clever photoshop job. I liked it! Thank you for your efforts.

268. Daoud - March 19, 2008

Very nice bmar… sorry not to have issued some egoboo earlier!

It does seem that the red of the youthful Starfleet something uniform matches the red of the TOS era. That’s a good sign!

However, I must note that you’ve put people from 2267 into a shot that would probably be happening in 2245.

Must be that famous lost TOS episode “For the Shat is Flying and I Have Touched The Toupée” or “The Oviatt Incident”

269. sean - March 19, 2008

If they are using the Aptera in the film, it’s a pretty smart use of product placement that wouldn’t be distracting or out-of-place to the majority of the audience. Most people would just assume it’s a futuristic prop designed for the movie.

Plus, it’s the kind of product placement that I think Star Trek can get behind and not feel a need to wash up afterward (ya know, unlike Levis or Kraft ‘marshmellon’ dispensers). If the Aptera itself isn’t the wave of the future, the concept behind it certainly is (one tank of gas from LA to NYC).

270. Spockanella - March 19, 2008

#257, it’s not much of a leap to assume Finnegan’s costume is a cadet uniform. Ugly as hell, though, so if we could overlook that little bit of *canon*, if canon it is, I would not be disappointed.

#179, 265, good job! I admit I didn’t look at your work until your second post…wish I’d seen it sooner.

#215, thanks!

271. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) - March 19, 2008

#270—” it’s not much of a leap to assume Finnegan’s costume is a cadet uniform”

True, and it’s also not much of a leap to assume that it’s not the ONLY cadet uniform.

Problem solved.

272. Dan_C - March 19, 2008

Late to the party.

I was on CSUN’s campus for an event Monday. Got a glimpse of the shooting in the AM as they led our tour around the quad to avoid the shooting. Saw the car, saw the uniforms, didn’t see much else.

After lunch, I camped out with a book on some terraced benches right between the extras tent and the Library.

Didn’t see any of the actual takes, heard a man with a scottish accent giving direction (second unit?). From his direction, it sounded like the extras were to go about their business, all notice something alarming high in the sky, and rush in groups (he was calling out months of the year to identify different groups of extras) towards a specific point. Couldn’t see that.

What I did get a real good look at was the costuming. The cadet uniforms look pretty sharp and detailed close-up (I was about 25 feet away when they’d walk by). The other two uniforms I saw were an “instructor” uniform (older extras) and, for lack of a better term, an MP or security uniform (don’t know that the uni’s had anything to do with that, but the actors in them were universally fit, mid-twenties, and they had some kind of eagle or bird patch on the shoulder.)

These MP uniforms actually appeared to be dark, dark green to my eyes. Some wore hats similar to the Royal Air Force image linked earlier, some wore soft caps.

The “instructor” uniforms were actually a silver/black pattern (when I saw them earlier in the morning on the costumer’s rack, covered in black cloaks, I thought they might be romulan; they had a pattern similar to what TNG used for their romulans during the series). They were cut very military.

Most male instructors had interesting caps: black plastic frames and visors, similar to the RAF hats, but frames only, with a magenta or crimson “top” that covered the wearer’s crown.

I saw only two “alien” cadets, neither from the front. One was mottled gray, with heavy brow ridges that protruded away from his head (I could see them from behind), and a tapered, pointed skull with a little curlicue at the end.

The second was fleshcolored, with a large cranium and two smaller “cranium”s extending from the side. Didn’t recognize either of them as anything that’s been in Trek before, but I couldn’t see the faces, so…

Probably watched them move the extras back and forth to the set for an hour or so. By the time my event let out again, the extras were wrapped.

Tuesday, I was able to walk about the quad a little, saw the kiosk Hat Rick referenced. Only thing I could add to his comment, it had some kind of decal made to look like a digital readout, and another decal that said “SFA 122.8″ near the bottom. The rest of the set dressing and the bluescreens had been disassembled by then.

Dan

273. JL - March 19, 2008

Cool post, Dan, thanks

SFA = San Francisco Academy..?

274. AJ - March 19, 2008

Sorry, all. I am still stopped at Blowback’s “beating off lawyers with a stout pole” in message 188.

However, while I try to ignore the imagery of that, I would like to say that when I bought my FJ Tech Manual, I was 9 years old, and I ate up every single inch of it. I think many of us mistake it for a canonical guide to the Fed/Starfleet because it simply existed as one of four references on the market at the time (with Blueprints, TMOST, and the making of Trouble with Tribbles, and please correct if I am wrong).

And for all the canonistas, the Dreadnoughts are officially real after TMP. I like them.

275. AJ - March 19, 2008

Maybe Starfleet Academy wit a new and improved Star-dating system. Dan_C, that was great info. Thanks.

276. JL - March 19, 2008

oh. SFA.

It’s probably Starfleet Academy

DOH!

277. Jorg Sacul - March 19, 2008

AJ– don’t forget Gerrold’s other book, “The World of Star Trek”, if you’re going to mention the books that we devoured as kids. Oh, wait, there was the Star Fleet Medical Reference Manual, done in the style of the Technical Manual.

SFA . I wonder if anyone’s made a domain name out of that yet?

278. S. John Ross - March 19, 2008

Okay, it is at least good to know that there’s no definitive canon statement on Finnegan’s disco outfit. If it’s all just logical interpolation, that’s all the wiggle-room anyone needs.

I hereby declare that that’s the special Graduation Uniform for Cadets with names starting with “Finn-,” worn only for graduation and for hazing Jim Kirk one last time an hour later, thus creating a lasting impression.

279. Hat Rick - March 19, 2008

Very detailed, 272 — thank you for that. I especially appreciated the inclusion of the instruction that the cadets were to look at something “alarming” in the sky. Would an Enterprise being revealed, or rising, or landing, be considered alarming? I wonder….

Also from your post:

“I saw only two “alien” cadets, neither from the front. One was mottled gray, with heavy brow ridges that protruded away from his head (I could see them from behind), and a tapered, pointed skull with a little curlicue at the end.

The second was fleshcolored, with a large cranium and two smaller “cranium”s extending from the side. Didn’t recognize either of them as anything that’s been in Trek before, but I couldn’t see the faces, so… ”

I have an image of the first one you describe, in my mind approximating that of a dinosaur head — one of the classics with the backward -curving skulls. I’ve forgotten the name of that dinosaur. That alien struck me as bluish, but that could have been from reflection of the sky.

I think that you and I saw the same alien in the second character you mention. Unlike the Star Wars cantina aliens, this version did not have the bulbous black eyes, did he?

Finally, as I search my memory (as Karl Rove used to say), I recall that the driver of the Aptera was himself costumed in gray as a Starfleet instructor or officer. He took it off, revealing street clothes, to eat his lunch with a friend, sitting about ten feet away from the vehicle at about the 10 or 11 o’clock position (330 or 330 degrees from where the car was pointed, or west-southwest ) relative to the vehicle. The car was also watched over by a security guard in in a white shirt.

280. Hat Rick - March 19, 2008

I just found the dinosaur’s name: Duck-billed. This guy:

http://www.terradaily.com/images/dinosaur-duck-billed-bg.jpg

Head only; the rest of the alien was humanoid.

281. Hat Rick - March 19, 2008

Correction: West-southwest in real geographical terms; virtually north if north is defined as the direction the Aptera was pointed at. (It was actually pointed due west at the time.)

282. Dan_C - March 19, 2008

Didn’t get a look at either face (I was keeping up my “reading” facade a little too well and was actually, well, reading ;-) ), only seeing them from the rear as they walked up the steps to the set. The dino pic looks like the back of the alien’s head.

I didn’t see much of the morning shoot (just the setup for a take as we crossed the end of the quad, a goodly distance away), and only saw a few of the extras near their tent during the lunch break.

One thing I forgot to mention, the dark green guys were different from the gray uniforms: The gray uniforms (call them “officers” to differentiate them from the silver/black “instructors”) had slacks, where the dark green uniforms with the shoulder patches tucked their pants into their boots.

Wish I’d thought to sneak into the library for a look at the shoot ;-)

Dan

283. Hat Rick - March 19, 2008

I enjoyed seeing the level of attention to detail demonstrated in the shoot. You could see the Starfleet insignia not only on uniforms, but also on briefcases that the various personnel and cadets were carrying.

I was also amused to see cardboard bankers’ boxes lying around near the library front entrance with the words “Enterprise[,] Federation” or words to that effect clearly marked on them in black magic marker for the benefit of the cast and crew. I speculate that they contained props or similar items for use during production.

All the extras were quite professional and well-behaved at all times that I could see. Toward the end of the day, you could see some of them finally getting to sit on the grass as they awaited the director’s instructions. It was a great shoot.

And, now that you mention it, I do recall seeing the personnel wearing gray-green uniforms. They looked almost as though they were made of felt or some similar heavy material, it seems.

284. Ian B - March 19, 2008

Those all-red uniforms look hideous to me. You can have too much colour coding, you know.

I’m not sure about the “miniskirts” either in terms of cut. They’re longer than the TOS ones and if they were going to go back to them, they should’ve gone back to the iconic cut IMV. The original skorts/skant remember aren’t a miniskirt at all, just a wraparound pelmet sewed to the panties that barely descends below crutch level, hubba hubba.

I hope the proper uniforms have a bit more style, really I do.

285. Pat - March 19, 2008

From this location and the prior “Vulcan” chapel, the production design on this film looks to be incredibly ambitious, along with the use of real locations, set pieces and green screens!

I can’t wait to see how some of this stuff turns out.

286. Alex Rosenzweig - March 19, 2008

#274 – “And for all the canonistas, the Dreadnoughts are officially real after TMP. I like them.”

Now, admittedly, we don’t know they look like FJ’s version. But we do know at least one dreadnought, with name USS Entente and registry NCC-2120, existed in 2273.

I have no problem with imagining that it looks like FJ’s version, but they could always trot it out someday, make it look different, and still be canonically consistent. ;)

287. Anthony Thompson - March 19, 2008

Hat Rick,
Did you delete all your Flickr photos?

288. Hat Rick - March 19, 2008

No; they should be up. I’ll check.

(Goes to check. Returns.)

Okay, here they are again:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3254/2343567613_401f44723b.jpg?v=0 (Aptera)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2372/2344540284_eda74895ec.jpg?v=0 (Quad)

The first link does link to a deleted image but the second link above is to the same photo and is the same as the one provided at 235.

289. Xai - March 19, 2008

Hat Rick and Dan_C. Thank you both for your very good reporting on the scenes.

290. Hat Rick - March 19, 2008

No problem, 289. It’s been fun.

291. AC80 - March 19, 2008

#23, that’s awfully cold and presumptuous. If you can’t handle views different than yours, don’t insult the posters. Personally I welcome critical scrutiny on small technicalities. It keeps the gushing sugar & sunshine optimism in check.

292. LoyalStarTrekFan - March 19, 2008

Excellent, very detailed post 272. I especially look forward to the new security uniform do with the fact that the security personnel in STAR TREK never get enough attention or credit (except for the constant “Red Shirt comments) and their uniforms are always the same as the Engineers. As a result, you could never tell if an extra was supposed to be a security officer or an engineer, unless they were guarding something or someone. I was always hoping one day to see a unique uniform for security officers in STAR TREK the way that security officers had a unique (grey) uniform in Babylon 5. It makes sense that all the security officers would be fit because any law enforcement career is extremely physical and anyone in the field needs to be at their top physical condition at all times.

Anyway, I’m looking forward to the film.

293. Iowagirl - March 20, 2008

#291
AC80 – Amen.

294. SPOCKBOY - March 20, 2008

#179
EXCELLENT idea!
well done.

295. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) - March 20, 2008

#291—I also welcome such critical scrutiny. Otherwise, I would have no one to debate with.

296. Luke Montgomery - March 20, 2008

The “space car” in the pics is the Aptera. It comes out in California in October. 300 miles to the gallon!
Aptera.com
http://www.aptera.com/media.php

297. Daibhi - March 20, 2008

How Do Folks,

First time poster.

Cadets uniform colour and canon…Firstly I think you can take this land of make believe a wee bit too seriously. Secodnly if memory serves when Picard was at the academy his unifrom was red…

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/8/82/Jean-LucPicardCadet.jpg/180px-Jean-LucPicardCadet.jpg

Additionally…isn`t it possible that elements of the star fleet dress, insignia etc etc etc could have changed over time….Kirk as captain being gold uniformed on to Picard as Captain being Red uniformed.

Maybe as in real life, sometimes things…change.

I`m no expert, just someone whose seen the shows and enjoyed them. I hope to enjoy the new film too.

298. Victor Hugo - March 20, 2008

Daibhi, it´s fun to take this land of make believe :O) and it´s fun to whine about canon or non-canon.
If a tree has a lot of noisy talking parrots, it´s because has good mangoes.

299. Spockanella - March 20, 2008

Longing consumes me
A phaser shot to the heart
May 09 too far

300. j w wright - March 20, 2008

aptera?

thats pretty blatant product placement, especially for a trek film.

has there been a precedent?

i mean, besides the ronco marshmellon replicator and rocket boots…

that car will be an ancient antique by the 23rd century…

spot on, #298

301. Hat Rick - March 20, 2008

297, great shot of the young Picard. Notice the ancient 20th Century lamp through the window in the background. The architectural style appears to be late 19th Century, too. I wouldn’t be surprised if the picture hadn’t been taken at Paramount Studios itself next to one of its buildings.

We know that not only ancient styles, but old buildings themselves survive to the 24th Century — at least in one alternate future. In “All Good Things…” (TNG) we see Data at Cambridge, I believe, and there’s an establishing shot of the ancient buildings there that, if they are real, are quite old even in our time. Data’s office itself was quite grandly Edwardian in style — as befits a professor at such a prestigious college.

Oddly enough, some of the briefcases held by cadets in the new movie look a little like the plastic cases you can find today. Below is a photo of the case held by one of the cadets.

The second one is of the famous kiosk. Notice the electrical box it’s hiding.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3267/2348362044_3c2b2e7332.jpg?v=0 (Briefcase)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2074/2348364070_b47d7b1252.jpg?v=0 (Kiosk)

302. Robbie Redshirt - March 20, 2008

MMMMMMMMMMMMMM………miniskirts!!!!!!!!!!!!

303. Hat Rick - March 20, 2008

What I mean is that I wouldn’t be surprised if the picture of Picard HAD been taken at Paramount.

Good rhyme, Spockanella.

300, didn’t Kirk have a shirt on that said, “Go Climb a Rock” in ST:TFF? I think that that was an ancient 20th Century advertising slogan used by Yosemite Park. See, e.g., sales for similar shirts at:

http://www.yosemitegifts.com/yomot.html

Of course, some people deny that The Final Frontier is canon….

304. Hat Rick - March 20, 2008

Here’s a photo of Kirk with the shirt on — while on the bridge of the Enterprise, no less! He obviously didn’t have time to change before rushing to duy. Next to Picard and crew’s similarly anachronistic attire in GEN (dressed in 18th Century garb straight from their holodeck celebration in honor of Worf), this has got to be one of the least appropriate looks in history for a Starfleet captain while on-duty on the bridge.

But who could argue with such a man as Kirk?

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/shatner-store_1990_289433

305. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) - March 20, 2008

#303—“Of course, some people deny that The Final Frontier is canon….”

Unfortunately, The Great Trek Turd is as “canon” as they come…

306. Hat Rick - March 20, 2008

Seems like someone needs to have their pain taken away. Sybok to the rescue!

307. ActionJustin - March 20, 2008

I guess campuses will be filled with boring institutional architecture in the future, too.

I’m surprised by the fact that 95% of these extras are humans. Aside from the overuse of soundstages in ST over the years, the pervasiveness of European-descended Humans in starfleet is the biggest flaw in canon to date.

Where the heck are all the Chinese people?

On that subject, the Sulu ranting here is pretty bush league. Sulu is a Filipino name and it strains credulity to believe that an Asian family in San Francisco would successfully marry only full blooded Japanese people in to the 23rd C. My last name is Romanian via Ellis Island, but I’m nearly full-blooded English with a little Irish. Besides, scientists just used the genome map to demonstrate that Koreans are biologically Japanese and the Japanese are biologically Chinese…. and aboriginal Japanese [the Ainu] are biologically Afghani. Haters be gone!

308. LoyalStarTrekFan - March 20, 2008

307, you need to remember that STAR TREK is filmed here in the United States, a western nation. English settlers, who revolted against the most powerful nation on Earth at the time and actually won, created this country.
Today, the western world, i.e. Western Europe and North America, is one of the most stable, democratic, and peaceful places on Earth. The Middle East is a hellhole, Africa’s just as bad, Asia is pretty stable but has some significant problems, and South America is getting more unstable every minute. The western world is a shining beacon of hope and progress in a chaotic world.

That is not to say that STAR TREK shouldn’t be more culturally diverse. You’re right that there should be more cultures represented in STAR TREK. After all in STAR TREK the entire planet is a stable, democratic, peaceful planet of progress and hope. As a result there should be more Asians, more Arabians, etc. to show that the western world isn’t the only part of Earth capable of such progress but that everyone, from every nation and ethnic background, is capable of the same wonderful achievements.

Also, remember that the western world wasn’t always the peaceful haven it is today. We fought each other for centuries, first the British and French would have countless wars against each other, and of course the western world fought two World Wars against each other that caused the death of thousands and thousands of people BEFORE the western world achieved peace, democracy, and progress, BEFORE the United Nations, and the European Union were established. Today all of this exists because of the sacrifice of so many and the hard fought victories against brutal dictators, such as Adolf Hitler and Mussolini, to establish the peaceful haven that is the western world. That is also not to say that the western world doesn’t have problems, but wars among each other isn’t one of them.

It is possible that similar events will play out in the most violent parts of the world, such as the Middle East and Africa, and one day they too will enjoy peace, democracy, and hope for the future that is so devoid of their lives now. I believe that one day this will occur because in the end, peace will prevail over violence, terror, and radical ideologies, and one day these troubled locations will finally have a better and bright future.

However, as I said earlier, STAR TREK is filmed in the United States whose majority population is European descendants. If STAR TREK were filmed in the Middle East, everyone would be Arabian, and if it were filmed in South America everyone would be Hispanic. You have to work with the actors that are available, and while there are plenty of “minorities” available, the majority of Americans, and American actors, are descendants of Europeans. As the French would say, cae la vie (sp?) (such is life.)

Please note that I put the word “minorities” in quotes because I don’t particularly like that term but couldn’t think of a better one.

Further, 307 could source the article or location where you found the information “…scientist just used the genome map to demonstrate…” Are you sure the source is authentic?

309. Hat Rick - March 20, 2008

308, your message was, as Spock would say, fascinating. Thanks for the time you spent composing it.

It seems to me that Hollywood is mostly white-based, except for the music industry. Most of the extras I worked with (not in this film) were white. This is a practical reason behind why everyone looks white in the scene.

Despite this, there were clearly authoritative-looking blacks in the shoot, and I’m thinking of one black actor in particular who was dressed in an officer’s uniform. There are also a couple of female black cadets visible in the AICN shots, I believe. And I also saw an Asian cadet.

Some interesting thoughts, there, in your message. Might I say that most people who support good science fiction like Trek are all in favor of equality of all races, creeds, etc., and so it’s my best guess that the demographic make-up of the cadets at the location shoot shouldn’t be seen as reflecting anything except the requirements of casting.

California is about 36% Hispanic, 13% and Pacific Islander, about 8% black, 1.2% Native American, and the rest is white, according to U.S. Census figures. If Hollywood casting agencies were strictly representative of the local population, the majority of actors would be nonwhite. That’s clearly not the case.

310. The Vulcanista - March 20, 2008

The National Geographic Society Genome Project:

http://tinyurl.com/2bz2nn

Yep. I’d say it’s authentic and fascinating stuff. Check it out. :-)

Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|

311. Captain Pike - March 20, 2008

We’ve had lots of ringing endorsements but I keep hearing things that have me worried. Reports like “Other people wore grey (sic) uniforms that somewhat resembled uniforms for imperial officers in Star Wars. ” and the young age of the cast (and producers!) have alarm bells going. Why? The nightmare that was “Starship Troopers”. I hope it doesn’t look or feel anything like Starship Troopers – but the only uniform pic so far gives me the willies!

312. Hat Rick - March 20, 2008

Starship Troopers was basically the anti-Trek, so I understand your concern. Starship Troopers (which I will abbreviate as “SST” rather than “ST” to avoid confusion) took Heinlein’s already somewhat militaristic juvenile-fiction approach and brought it to life. It showed the character played by Neil Patrick Harris, I believe, in a most unflattering light as close to being some kind of parallel political overseer to guarantee compliance with rules and orders. The entire mythos of SST is suggested by the requirement of military service in order to become a full citizen.

What makes me confident that ST will not be SST is that Trek comes together with a completely different philosophy arising from exactly the opposite view of humanity. Whether it’s the older or the younger Roddenberry, or even the second generation (Berman, Braga, Moore) that established or expanded its premises, it’s always been that Trek is identified with humanism, self-expression, individuation, and freedom. I am virtually certain that individuals of integrity such as Nimoy would not be associated with the production if it was akin in philosophical approach to SST, and I feel sure that serious people like Moore would not characterize JJ and the rest of this third generation as the Harve Bennetts of our day were it otherwise.

SST had a very thin and rather strange premise to build on; Trek’s vastly larger and richer background — one that I would argue is far more developed in the abstract than even the Star Wars franchise — indicates that Star Trek is of an entirely different league entirely and thus a fairly immovable basis from which this next film will necessarily depart.

313. Paul - March 20, 2008

Well it’s nice and all, but where are the high boots for men? I demand equality! Some might say that mens’ boots are passé these days, but if Star Wars dudes can wear boots, Star Trek dudes can, too! :)

314. I Am Morg Not Eymorg - March 20, 2008

311. Captain Pike: To me they evoke more of a Forbidden Planet vibe. I can see why people think Star Wars Empire but thats only because the world seems to only know Star Wars. Oy. Besides, the red cadet uniforms look nothing like either of them. They look more TOS.

312. Hat Rick: Well said and I agree totally. Also I think the tall authoritative black man is a stand in for Tyler Perry or possibly Perry himself. His uniform is different than all the others. More of a navy color. I think that is the Academy commandant

313. Paul: If ya look, the guys are wearing TOS style boots. And TOS boots kicks Star Wars boots all to heck. :)

315. LoyalStarTrekFan - March 21, 2008

312, I entirely agree with you and once again you made your point eloquently. Star Trek is like nothing else and Starship Troopers is quite possibly the worst sci-fi ever created. I also agree that Star Trek is better developed than Star Wars and that this film will be no Starship Troopers or Star Wars. The producers and writers have gotten too much praise from people who know and love Star Trek for that to be the case.

316. readysteadyleddy - March 21, 2008

If you check out the high res images you can see them full screen. The weird looking car seems to have a reg plate on it. Im from Ireland so i dont recognise it.. Is it a real reg plate. Kinda strange that they would have the car registered like that for the movie.

317. sean - March 21, 2008

#315

I don’t think Starship Troopers is ‘the worst SciFi ever’. It’s a satire (which is probably why they had Robocop’s Paul Verhoeven at the helm) and should be viewed in that context. I’m not saying it’s perfect, and I actually hated it the first time I was forced to sit through it (it stood in stark contrast to the book). But once I revisited it and viewed it with the intent in mind, I enjoyed it. It is what it is, and a lot of it clearly came about through Verhoeven’s influence (just compare the Facist Propaganda broadcasts with similar content in Robocop & Total Recall).

But I agree, it has nothing to do with Star Wars or Star Trek. I don’t think you’d ever have reason to fear that Starship Troopers satirical style would ever work for Trek, any more than Star Wars’ fantasy elements would.

318. Hat Rick - March 21, 2008

Speaking of Verhoeven, some of his satirical elements have actually made it to real life. For example, we now have “news breaks” that last just a minute or two on national TV, rather than the longer newscasts of 30 minutes or more that were the norm. (Admittedly, we also have several dedicated news channels.) And the flashy, glitzy style of newstelling these days is pretty reminiscent of the absurdist ones we saw on Robocop.

And now, with news of the development of the Big Dog (posted on this very site) combined with snippets of the military’s increasing reliance on robotic machines… well, maybe Robocop wasn’t so far off.

As to your statement that SST was meant to be satirical: Spot on. I agree. Or, perhaps I should say: “I’ll buy THAT for a dollar!”

319. sean - March 21, 2008

#318

It is a sad but true fact that some of the seemingly ‘absurd’ elements he introduced in RoboCop and other films have become a grim part of reality. Even the reliance on flashy vehicles with terrible gas mileage (in the film it was a 6000SUX with something like 8 or 9 miles to the gallon) has amusingly come to pass, though not quite to the extreme it was depicted.

320. Hat Rick - March 21, 2008

Yup. Good points, 319. It seems that the “SUX” part of it was off by just one letter: The “x” should have been a “v.” With gas prices going up, no wonder Detroit is losing out to car makers with mileage more in mind.

321. john dell - March 22, 2008

The skirts are not short enough.

322. startrek-movie.co.uk - March 23, 2008

The skirts are pretty short, but yeah, they could be shorter :)

I intercepted a post on the Wikipedia talk page about California State being used as a set for the Academy and requested proof so I could get it into Wikipedia using my blog as citation.

Eventually the same photos arrived in my mailbox as are posted at AICN.
My source didnt say anywhere near as much as yours did however and refused to comment when probed.

So, well done guys!

323. tony2448 - May 30, 2008

So everyone uses the delta symbol now…BFD Get over it!!!!

324. MC - August 12, 2008

WHAT THE HELL IDIOTS!!!!! CSUN IS BEING USED AS A SET TO SHOOT CHEAP MOVIES OR LOW BUDGET FILMS AS MS. LOHAN ONCE MENTIONED TO ME…. IT IS ANNOYING TO SEE THOSE PEOPLE ALL OVER THE PLACE WHEN A STUDENT HAS TO FIND A QUIET PLACE AT THE LIBRARY TO STUDY!!!!!

DOESN’T ANYONE FEEL INVATED ETC. THE UNIVERSITY SHOULD BE OFF LIMITS AND WORSE OF ALL NEAR THE LIBRARY!!!

325. Here and There - October 6, 2008

@MC It’s the school’s source of income, so they can continue financing projects, so stop whining.

326. sean finnegan - December 3, 2008

star trek is for smart people so you are the idiot for daring to complain about star trek being shot at your precious college. You should get on your knees and be greatfull.

327. Chris - April 3, 2011

The design for the weblog is a tad off in Epiphany. Nevertheless I like your web site. I may need to install a normal browser just to enjoy it.

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