Orci & Kurtzman Talk Why Chose TOS Prequel + Shatner June 16, 2008
by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Orci/Kurtzman, Star Trek (2009 film), TOS , trackback
The new issue of the official Star Trek Magazine has an extensive interview with Star Trek co-writers and exec. producers Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman. The pair talk about their fandom, favorite Trek books and more, but of particular interest was a discussion on why they chose to do a movie in the pre TOS era and also a bit on the Shat.
Excerpts from Star Trek Magazine
(interview conducted in March)
Why not the next Next Generation?
Star Trek magazine asked why the new Trek team chose to do a film in the TOS era instead of following Roddenberry’s example and ‘take things on a generation’ as he did with TNG.
Roberto Orci: We all had to agree that area would interest us, and we’re all fans to varying degrees. Everyone could agree that the original series was something that we all loved dearly. Also there seemed to be the fact that Roddenberry had done exactly as you described, so it would have been doing it again. Thirdly, there seemed to be a genuine gap in what we knew about these characters’ origins. It wasn’t just remaking an origin story, it was telling it for the first time. There seemed to be unexplored territory. We couldn’t believe it when we sat down to think about it.
Alex Kurtzman: It was shocking that after 40 years that there was still a story to tell about the characters that started it all. That alone was a reason to do it.
RO: Creatively that was a reason to do it and on the other side of it, we wanted to introduce Star Trek again to a new generation and the people who had been around who felt that they were never able to jump onto the bandwagon because they felt they’d missed too much. The idea of making an introduction that anyone can come into, and find out what it is that all of us love about Star Trek, without having to know anything about Star Trek, was something we just couldn’t pass up. The two of those together made it inescapable.
Orci and Kurtzman make an interesting point. If you look at the five Trek TV series, all but The Original Series had elaborate pilots that showed how the crews of each show came together. In addition to the pilots there were also prequel episodes like TNG’s “Tapestry” and ENT’s “First Flight,” which TOS never had (although “The Menagerie” did show the old days when Spock shouted a lot). In a way the new Star Trek movie is the ‘origin pilot’ The Original Series never had.
Shatner wanted larger part?
When asked if they thought it likely Shatner could be worked in, Orci said he didn’t think it likely but "never say never," He also gave some background on the whole Shat saga
We went through the same process that we went through with Nimoy: We pitched him what we were thinking early on before we wrote it, and got his blessing as well, which was amazing. We talked in the meeting about the fact that Star Trek had killed Kirk and that was going to be a big stumbling block to an organic introduction of the character, but we would do our best. Subsequently he said he would require a slightly larger part than maybe this movie could sustain so we’ve kept him in the back of our minds, and now with another year to go, who knows? .
It appears there may be more to the whole Shatner in the movie saga than just what we have been hearing from Mr. Shatner lately.
UPDATE: Orci clarifies
Shortly after this article went up, Mr. Orci wrote the followg in the comments section below
by the way, when I said that Mr. Shatner subsequently said he wanted a larger role, I was referring to his public statement that he did not do cameos. Nothing more.
The latest issue of Star Trek Magazine has much more from Orci & Kurtzman, as well as other good articles on the film, and much more. Pick it on newsstands now.
Comments»
Uh oh here come the shat rumors again…
the shat wanted a larger part? Wow, that’s not like him. ;)
It’s too bad the interview couldn’t have been done in May instead of March… I just can’t wait for the full trailer!
I THINK ITS RONG THAT KERK WILL NOT BE IN THE NEW MOVIE I THINK THEY SHOOD PAY HIM WHATEVR HE ASKS FOR I THINK HES A GRATE ACTOR AND THEY SHOOD BRING HIM BACK FROM THE DEAD BECUASE THATS WHAT THE FANS WANT AND THE FANS KNOW WHAT STAR TREK IS ALL ABOUUT AND THE PRODUCERS SHOULD LISEN TO THE FANS I THINK THEY SHOOD HAVE NEVER KILLED KERK WHAT DO YOU THINK
/hee hee
I need to renew my star trek mag subscription.
I think you should use spell check.
by the way, when I said that Mr. Shatner subsequently said he wanted a larger role, I was referring to his public statement that he did not do cameos. Nothing more.
Hi Bob,
that was fast…you must have a ‘there is an article about me radar’ hooked up to your iphone
Well Shat said ‘I dont do cameos’ back in October of 07…shortly before filming started. But in May 08 after filming ended he suddenly seemed OK with cameos, even suggesting a voice over. Perhaps he was bluffing
no radar - I just check your site every day!
yes Bob, you were clear on what you meant (just good to be safe, just in case)
But, now that the movie’s release date has been changed…who knows, anything can happen. As someone else has said, “there are always possibilities”
see ya next time!!!
I check this site everyday, too (along with a couple of Beatle and guitar related sites). This has become one of my favorites, for sure.
gracias Anthony Pascale
From the mouth of Orci and Kurtzman
we’ve kept him in the back of our minds, and now with another year to go, who knows? .
Dam I thought the hole “Is Shatner in the next trek” thing was over,,,
maybe not.
this seems to have more twist and turns than an episode of “Lost”
This has again, given me a faint glimmer of light that Mr Shatner may return once more as,,,,, “Kirk”
*smiles*
I could understand on the one hand having the Shat in it would pretty much make it “The Search for Kirk” but on the other hand, I cannot imagine Spock abandoning his best friend to the fate he ultimately met on Veridian III. At some point in the 24th century, he would’ve learned the truth about his supposed ‘death/disappearance’ from Picard.
The problem with having Kirk come back from the dead is going all the way out to Veridian III and digging him up from under all those rocks and then hauling his corpse to New England or wherever that Native American burial ground is and reburying him and then having him come back and kill Herman Munster before he does that cousin Vinny movie and then having to put him down again because he just ‘aint right.
So, there’s that.
@ warptrek
I guess it is established that Spock never met Picard again after “Unification”? Don’t get me wrong, I also can’t imagine Spock abandoning Kirk but you know, Picard and Spock aren’t exactly pen pals.
If the Hoff,…äh I mean the Shat would be in the movie…. That’ll be cool.
But if he’s not: Fine by me!
Maybe this is why people don’t ask me things…
I think it’s obvious that there was no way to put Shatner in this story without devoting a larger portion of the script to how and why we got ol’ kirk off that mountain on veridian III.
Which is not the story TPTB wanted to tell, or would have been what joe public would have wanted to see. By putting him him - they would have had to rewrite the script and could have possibly alienated any new audience by talking about stuff that happened over 4 movies back.
“Who the hells Soran…Whats the nexus?”
Only way in was a cameo and given that Shatner doesn’t do them. Would have been nice, but was not meant to be.
Just my take anyway.
I agree with 13. warptrek - June 16, 2008
Spock would’ve learned the truth about his supposed ‘death/disappearance’
Just maybe not from Picard.
Spock wouldnt abandon Kirk ,, as Kirk said..
“you would of done the same for me”
Shatner might have some “spare” time coming up with the final season wrap of Boston Legal….;)
To be honest I really think we need the Shat in this film. I think it’d bring things round full circle just for him to appear. And come on let’s admit it - we’d ALL love to see Shatner & Nimoy together again on the big screen. JJ you’ve got to find a way and you know it.
Mr. Orci, I hope that even if you can’t fit Shatner in this movie that you will keep the option open with putting him in the next one. Thanks for reading!
I little song I like,,,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsXoUMH13H8
:o )
Mr. Orci, Kurtzman & Abrams…. please ignore all the “advice” directed your way on these posts and just make the best film possible… take some risks, make it interesting, relevant, funny, and authentic, and we’ll all be happy (and so will your bosses ’cause it’ll make some money).
Can you tell us if Mr. Giacchino has begun work on his score? In the past the score album has been released several weeks in advance of the film, something that would seem to be an effective marketing tool. Is that a possibility this time?
How are those effects shots looking??
No, please don’t put Shatner in the movie. I for one do not need to see him and Nimoy together again. Leonard is enough for me. It’s time he got to be the big banana. There isn’t room for Shatner in this movie. Please please please don’t put him in it.
I still don’t buy the whole “Kirk died in Generations” argument. I’ve heard this story may be considered almost an alternate timeline or Trek universe plus they could have timed the future Kirk and Spock to come from a time before Kirk’s death.
There are other factors at work here, but who know if we’ll ever get get the real story…
Vic
Spock bloody better be CONSTANTLY SHOUTING in this movie…
Bob if you’re still reading would you and the team ever consider a Next Generation film or any other film about one of the other crews?
So it’s not ruled out yet completely that Shatner won’t be in the movie?
This looks more and more like a publicity stunt. He is in, no, he isn’t, maybe he is in it after all, no no, he isn’t, or is he?
After reading this I believe again that he will be in the movie and that his appearance will be the big surprise of the film.
That Shatner thing is over…or not …or maybe it’s only just beginning…or maybe there’s a next round, and a next one, and a next one until May 09, or maybe the Shat and Abrams & Orci are keeping a loophole open …or maybe not…stay tuned for the next cryptic prognosis…;)
As far as I’m concerned, there’s still something LARGE-SCALE going on, and it’s MIND-BLOWING to read that “now with another year to go, who knows?” over and over again, and I’m DYING to see Mr. Shatner as Kirk ONE MORE TIME. :)
Adjusted timeline at movie’s end: Old Kirk’s back as a result. No need for Nexus shampoo.
I put a quarter in my rumor-mill generator and got the following: “The big surprise of the film isn’t that Spock ends up saving Kirk from his on-screen fate in a subtle benefit from thwarting the Romulan plot: Instead, the big surprise is that Romulan plot ends up preserving Kirk’s life in a way that is unavoidably damaging to the time-stream, and Spock has to (with restrained but obvious anguish) pop a phaser-cap in his captain’s ass to save the universe.”
Wow. That thing spits out much cooler stuff when I actually put in the quarter! The needs of the many, bay-bee!
24, Yes, thjat’s something I don’t understand about the supposed difficulty of Shat’s Kirk being dead - if this new film is supposed to rewrite Trek history with an alternate timeline or universe/multiverse thing going on, then the alternate 23rd century’s Kirk may have not been involved in the Enterprise B incident. Heck, could this be that we could even flush away all Bermatrek in this new alternate version!!?
29: Be careful what you ask for. No Nexus = no Guinan. No Guinan = serious problems with large parts of TNG history. Think of the butterfly in the Amazon…
I don’t want Shatner *forced* in the movie. But if they can find a way to gracefully have him, well, that’s good for me. By the way, all these rumours are building up the theory about Shat in Trek XI.
Mr Orci
You guys just don”t quit trying to make this more awesome. You get Shatner , that is the cherry on top. I hope you can make it happen. Anyone who loves the original series would find this a once ina lifetime oppurtunity.
#34
- Anyone who loves the original series would find this a once ina lifetime oppurtunity. -
I wholeheartedly agree.
Call me crazy, but Shatner is going to be in this new movie. It’s all a big dog-and-pony show we’re watching here between Shatner and the production. “Oh, we tried our bet to fit him in but there was not way to do it.” This coming from the most creative team currently putting out television and film entertainment.
Okay, gents. I’ll play your game.
I have had faith all along that he would be in the film and after reading these comments and with the time before the film opens, I am CONFIDENT that we will see Shatner and Nimoy at the end of the film.
Shat in, Shat out…OMG!!! Whatever! All I want is a good Trek film.
And a star to guide her by ;-)
And I’m a Shat fan.
I can’t wait to see how the relationship between the big 3 - Jim, Spock and Bones is tackled. If humorous dialogue between the characters in Transformers is anything to go by then this should make for a very entertaining and engaging story - one that will hoepfully give avid Star Trek fans as well as the movie going public in general a sense of where these characters have come from.
Re Mr Shatner, my feelings are simple - I am a Kirk fan first and foremost. The last thing anyone should want to see is William Shatner doing a parody of himself just to satisfy the whims of fandom.
One ocmment that really stands one where Bill Shatner more or less refers to having him in the movile as “good business”. My point of view is that creativity should come first. One of the biggest failings of Star Trek in recent years is that business appeare to guide many of the decisions to bleed the franchise dry with an oversuppply of the product. In the end the “business” nearly killed all creativity in an effort to keep the franchise alive.
Its so refreshing to here people speak about their goal to make an entertaining movie and simply tell a story.
It’s a treat to hear from the writers, because that’s the skeleton of the whole thing, the bones on which the rest of the production hangs. Good writing can make a supbar production worth watching, and poor writing can make the biggest blovkbuster into an embarrassment. It sounds like Orci and Kurtzman have their heads screwed on right, and that’s a comfort to know.
I don’t want to talk about Shatner being in the movie any more….
I like surprises :)
- I’m a huge fan of the pilot episodes..but i think the worst trek pilot episode was ‘WHERE NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE’..but is just a purely objective and atemporal opinion..
Origins stories are boring. Girl gossip and nothing more! I would much rather see a good adventure story. I really don’t care how Kirk and Spock first met and fell in love. Ooops. Given the way things are today, someone might take that seriously. GOOD GRIEF!
Oric & Co: Just tell a rip-roaring adventure story. Leave the gossip stuff for the soap operas and Oprah!
Oh yeah - “Generations” is nothing more than “Who Shot JT (Kirk)???”
IT WAS A BAD DREAM. NOTHING MORE. IT NEVER HAPPENED! I MEAN, WHO COULD BELIEVE IT WAS ‘REAL’???? LOL!
^39 Adam from Sydney
The last few Trek spinoffs and series were certainly poor business decisions. I’m not sure why good entertainment is said to be “a creative decision” while poor enterntainment is said to be “a business decision”!
Everyone here is in business, even if you simply sell your time for money as a wage earner. Also, there is much more to business than “the money”. Ever hear of “investment” and “growth”? Please read about “maximizing shareholder value”, “net present value” and portfolio theory, to start.
You’ll see that efforts like Enterprise and “whatever that last TNG movie was but I never saw it so I don’t know its name” went against sound business decision making. How do I know that? Because they were failures, even by artistic standards let alone in terms of market acceptance. And let me remind you, that YOU and I ARE the MARKET, lol!
(I will also remind everyone that William Shakespeare was a shrewd businessman who wrote his plays to bring subscribers to the Globe theatre. So too were Mozart and Beethoven who wrote on commission. Gene Roddenberry for that matter, whose only reason for creating Trek was to earn a living.)
Money makes the world go ’round. It does not force it to be juvenile, dull, boring, or anything else. That friends, is up to you!
I quite frankly am getting tired of all the “Shat” talk. I love the guy and what he did for Star Trek, but if he can’t be put in the movie that ads to the fluidity and plot of the story then don’t bother. I don’t want him thrown in simply because the fans demand it, that’s not a good enough reason (sorry guys). Kowtowing to fans is usually a good way to kill a film to be completely honest. that’s why writers and directors do things their way and throw in an occasional nod or easter egg instead.
And if I might say so now, it might have occurred to Spock in the future that were he to go rescue Kirk from his fate, he would still be relatively young and useful to the Federation. Just a thought.
Interestingly enough, I think one of the mistakes made in “Enterprise” is that it was TOO MUCH of an origins story. They set themselves the unenviable task of either exploring familiar territory too deeply (If so much was already known about Vulcan culture, why did so much of it come as a surprise to Spock’s friends?**) or exploring new territory that wouldn’t play much of a part in series set later along the timeline. They had to constantly walk that fine line, and I’m not sure ANYONE could have done that successfully.
That kind of
**This is also one of my beefs with DS9 - if so much about the Trill was already old news and common knowledge, it retroactively paints Picard and his staff as uninformed dimwits. Whatever Picard’s faults were, a lack of anthropological knowledge wasn’t one of them.
Mister Orci,
Years ago, you served our country in the creation of the Transformer, now we beg you to help us in our struggle against the mainstream thought of Trek. I regret that I am unable to bring you my personal thoughts and feelings in person, but my ship has come under attack and my mission to bring the plans to Alderan has failed. So I have placed what I can into this text box. You should know how to retrieve it. This is our most desperate hour.
Help us Robert Orci, you’re our only hope.
With or without Shat, this is going to be an incredible movie. Orci, Kurtzman and J.J. have outdone themselves….. again! CAN’T WAIT!!!!
Chris
Chris, you honestly make me feel better every time. It’s good to know that you and Orci all keep track of this site. It really does help to bring the public into creation of this movie.
Correction:
It really does helpt to bring the public into *the* creation of this movie.
I’m sorry, but if the movie un-kills Kirk somehow in a very good way that makes sense in the story, I think Shatner would do it if his only dialogue were “Hi”. But I think he knows that this is his only shot at being Kirk again. It’s a new set of actors now. Forever and ever.
#28 “I’m DYING to see Mr. Shatner as Kirk ONE MORE TIME.”
And I’m dead already!!
Anthony, kudos to you for making this site relevant not only to rabid Trek fans across the globe, but also to people who are very much part of Trek like Bob Orci and Chris Doohan. You have our utmost respect and appreciation for all the work you have done and will continue to do.
Whether or not Shatner is in the movie is not a massive issue for me. While I would love to see him in there I am simply looking forward to what promises to be an awesome Star Trek movie! :)
I still have a funny feeling that Shatner IS the twist at the end of the Movie.
to much he said - she said. plausable deniability and all that stuff.
if we are truly to believe that this movie, and any sequel to follow would create a new “B” universe path..then old Spock would be returned to that new future, which could have a Kirk that survived the Meridian mess, only to greet the returning Spock.
This is JJ Abrams after all.
there has to be a twist.
I agree with what someone said… i just want a good Star Trek movie like Wrath of Khan was. And I think that is what bob & the gang will be doing. It would have been nice to have Shatner in it - but it will be just fine without him.
I would love to see some of Shatner’s Trek books turned into movies or made for TV movies… I like the way he revives Kirk from the dead. Interetesting idea and a great serious of books. Someone should think about those in the future!
As a huge trek fan i just want to say thank you to Bob and Alex and JJ for makeing a new trek movie and reviving startrek. Rick berman almost killed startrek but im glad you guys came along and acting like dr mccoy revived startrek and now i see so much all over the web of people talking about star trek. People like chris doohan and Bob and alex and jj and Others like tim russ who did of gods and men and People like james cawley of phase 2 have all kept gene roddenberrys vision alive and kicking. As all star trek fans truly appreciate all the hard work you men and women are doing and We all hope you can continue to make great star trek shows. weather it be fan made or big box office movies and maybe one day a new series on net work tv. Ah=gain thank you to everone one of you for keeping star trek alive and may all of you live long and prosper.
#46 said it right - don’t ruin a good story or plot just to shove Shatner in there. I love the characters - not necessarily only the original actors in those roles. We are getting Kirk back except it will be a young, vibrant Pine playing him. Kirk is meant to be a physical energetic guy. At 77 Shatner can’t do the role justice anymore.
I think they should have done a prequel YEARS ago. TOS had the best characters and format of all the incarnations yet it had a short run on the tube. There is still so much to explore about these guys and their universe.
I hate it when people say that ST franchise “ran out of ideas”. There is no limit to human ingenuity or creativity. You just got to get some good creative talented people willing to work hard and create good scripts and ideas. With the TOS great format and great characters a prequel has great potential. I’d love to see the Academy years and explore the characters backgrounds. There is so much to write about.
Oh i also want to thank you Anthoney pascale for this great site so we all can post comments and even have some of the writers and producers from the movie to james cawley who come on here and interact with us crazy fans. This is a first class site and i so enjoy reading all the crazy comments and of corse posting my own. Again Thank you for a great site.
Mr Orci, to arrange anything with Shatner you actually have to talk with the man.
You said many things in the press too about wanting to include him in the film, even after you didnt write a part from him.
So why dont you pick up the phone and call the man.
Otherwise everything said is, as has always been, just press speil.
ADAM COHEN -
Agreed. I look at /Lindelof’sAbram’s penchant for plot twists and secrecy, Shatner’s playfulness, and the 11 months till release and I can’t help but think Shatner will be in this thing.
Get Shatner in the movie. Spock is time traveling and NOT saving his friend? The one who risked everything for him when he died? Ridiculous. Go into orbit around Veridian, don’t hit the nexus, beam him up at the right moment, perform some sickbay magic. Take him back to whence Spock came so as not to change the timeline. Period. The movie closes with the two of them smoking cigars and having a scotch.
something interesting i read elsewhere was that Shatner is indeed in the movie with more than a cameo appearance and that Patrick Stewart would also make a brief appearance within the 24th century period of this movie…
Is there any truth to that outlandish rumor?
Like the man said - The Shat’s backed off his initial request, and there’s still a year to go, so who knows? The biggest stumbling block is that little issue with ‘Generations’………
I don’t think it would be THAT difficult to arrange for ole Kirkerino to make an appearance. Afterall, this is sci-fi,, and perhaps the Kirk that died in the Nexus was just one ‘version’ of Kirk, not the real deal who is still stuck there trying to get out and let the world know he’s alive! Perhaps the version that we saw stuck in the Nexus was a split ego - he seemed to passive to be the Kirk we know and love - riding around, cooking - blissfully unaware of the real world outside the Nexus. Not like Kirk at all……
It would be AWSOME for Spock to suddenly ‘bump’ into Kirk… and stoically raise an eyebrow and declare, “aren’t you dead?” ala reversal of Kirk in Wrath of Khan… this would be a subtle wink to the audience too ;)
Come on - get him in here - it will be THE BIGGEST Star Trek event ever! Perhaps make the movie a two-parter like The Menagerie…. leave it on a cliff-hanger!
P.S. The Nexus wa always a badly defined and vague ‘element of Generations - never probably explained or realised. Let THAT work to the new films advantage. Let this film ‘improve’ Generations by better explaining away The Nexus, AND get Kirk back.
Pretty please Mr Orci…. with a glass of Tranya on top :)
- J
Maybe a statue of Kirk in the Academy quadrangle could come to life and sing “Don Giovanni! A cenar teco m’invitasti.”
The OrcSter™ certainly is one handsome young son of a buck. Who cares about Shatner being in dis movie, yo? I still think that Chris Pine should have been cast as Chris Pike. That’s my only complaint about dis new trek movie dot com backsplash Orcster.
AIIIIGHT??
=h=
324 days 7 hours 25 mins to star trek…………..324 days 7 hours 24 mins to star trek…………..324 days 7 hours 23 mins to star trek. ( yes this is the best way i can think of , of passing the time. i Just cant wait anymore
It is possible that The Shat was not included because of BOSTON LEGAL. A good percentage of paying customers shouting DENNY CRANE wouldn’t exactly help the film experience.
Look, and here’s the final word on this Shatner thing. I’m serious, after this final clarification we do not talk about it anymore like the first rule of fight club. Old h69 is the greatest Shatnerist® out there. Trust in me. But also trust in me when I tell you. Shatner chose to kill this character 15 (it will be 15 or so when the movie comes out) years ago. Now he’s Denny Crane, the priceline guy, the buffoon, the interwebwhore, the paintball guy…. anything to me these days other than Captain James T. Kirk.
Not only do we not want him in this movie, but having him in this movie would ruin it. I dont care what you think you want. A heroin addict wants a fix when what he needs is rehab. It’s a best interest kind of thing I am talking about here.
The bottom line is that like Nimoy, he should have passed on Generations. He didn’t, that check is cashed, and James T Kirk is dead. Now lettuce not speak of this again. I’m serious. No more Shatner in the new trek movie dot com talk.
BEST!!
=h=
Just have Spock overshoot the timeline, swing into a vinyl record store, and buy a copy of The Transformed Man by the Shat. He can raise an eyebrow and leave. Nuff Said.
I think I missed the rule which states that hitch1969 will speak for all of us (#72).
“… he said he would require a slightly larger part than maybe this movie could sustain…”
This is what I’ve been saying all along…It would have been alot easier to fit Shatner’s Kirk into the existing story in the form of a cameo. “I don’t do cameos” may have indeed been a bluff on Shatner’s part, but it appears to have had an effect on their decision nonetheless. It is easy to see why.
#31 - I think the point is that it’s *not* supposed to “rewrite Trek history”, which of course is the right decision, but it does create a quandary for Kirk’s survival past 2294.
Much as I enjoy Mr. Shatner’s work, and *I’d* sometimes like to time-travel back to 1993, slap him up side o’ the head and yell, “Look, when they ask you about playing Kirk’s death…just say no!!”, what’s done is done.
It’s time to explore this previously-unseen part of the Trekverse, and see where the story takes us. :)
re 74. Dogpile®
The cold hard fact of the matter is that Shatner does not respect his character. Not like Nimoy does. He never had the integrity of the character in that respect. Generations, while being my fave of the TNG movies (and yes, I do like the Shat in it) should have never had Shatner in it.
As much as we love Shatner, I think that we all know the “Get A Life” version of Shatner is the real Shatner. Oh sure, he wants our adoration, and obviously from looking at his website he wants our money. And the dude had major child support in the 70s and lived in a truck camper for chrissake so I totally get it and no disrespect to the Shat intended.
Even when speaking about not being in the new movie, what does Shat say? Does he say, “I feel bad for the fans because they will never see these two great characters together on screen again?” NOPE. Shat simply calls it a “bad business decision” and states that they wont make the same amount of box office on it. Yeah, he really respects the story and the character in the way that we do. There’s a real caring happening there.
I’m glad that Sir JJ™ and the Orster® told him to go F himself, basically. But don’t get me wrong, I still love the Shat. That’s just what he gets for agreeing to kill his character so senselessly oh so long ago. Nimoy cared about his character. Nimoy respected the body of work. Nimoy wouldn’t touch Generations with a 10 foot pole and neither should have Shatner.
BEST!!
=h=
#72 “having him in this movie would ruin it”
There are loads of things that could ruin a Star Trek movie, and we’ve seen many of them. One thing that’ll never make that list is the inclusion of Bill Shatner as Kirk.
That said, I take this latest ‘movie’s still a year away’ talk very very lightly. Why even bring that up again, Orci? We won’t be seeing Shatner. A mistake, IMO, but it’s too late to do anything about it now.
[…] Trekmovie blog has posted a snippet of the interview Robert Orci and Alex Kurtzman gave to the Star Trek Magazine recently where there is a somewhat worrying quote from Orci: […]
hitch1969 stated:
“As much as we love Shatner, I think that we all know the “Get A Life” version of Shatner is the real Shatner. ”
If you’re going to state YOUR opinion, Hitch1969, why don’t use the term “I” rather than “we all”?
You certainly don’t speak for me or everyone in this discussion.
Regards.
If Nimoy’s Spock’s trip back is one way - is that crashed ship we saw in the video posted on this site a couple of months back -Spock’s perchance? - then working Kirk in will be real tough.
…the adventure continues…
In regards to the this film being a TOS “pilot”, I guess from a logic point of view and artistic direction for this film, I can accept that kind of reasoning for this film. It is true they never filmed a pilot for how these characters met or how they got the Enterprise to start their adventures.
I’d be curious what the others think and Mr. Orci too if he choses to respond, that I always felt the first few episodes of TOS filmed had that “feel” already of how these characters got to know each other and became what they became. Look at Corbomite Maneuver and how McCoy and Kirk go at each other; “I warned you about Bailey!”. Balance of Terror was a terrific study of most of the characters and their traits. As was The Naked Time, revealing a lot about what make Kirk and Spock tick. Even The Man Trap has this developing of the characters; McCoy thinking with his glands, Vulcan has no Moon, etc. We got it back then.
So this new film will be interesting to see how the new creative team go about this. I’ll be in line opening day to find out!
I want to see Kirk do something exciting in this new movie like “make eggs”.
That was great in “Generations” that we got to see Captain Kirk cook eggs. I’m so glad they cut out the part where he was skydiving and showed him cooking eggs.
And another thing, why didn’t they have the classic fight music when Kirk and Picard were fighting Billy Idol in Generations.
Wouldnt he have to die in the past so the writers done have an excuse for making it a really bad plot detail of time line destruction?
ALSO: I would love to see a shat cameo like Hastlehoff in the new Night Rider, an homage of sorts.
Goin’ back ta’ tha’ beginning is business as usual
Settin’ it in TOS is, of course purely logical
Goin’ on about Shatner seems a’ pursuit just ta’ fail
We come up wit’ Kirk scenes that be so paradoxical
Spockie, McCoy, izzit Scotty or O’Brien?
Cry out what WE want from our own inner fandom
Who arrrr dese people and what be they doin’?
Tha’ public at large needs dunna know them from Adam
Soooooo… Mays I suggest….
Give them all organic web shooters right in thar’ wristies
Make sure Alfred tha’ Butler was tha’ “Alfie” from tha’ old sixties
Check off that green-bloodied Bana has Nick Nolte for a daddy
Throw in two or three (or more!) of publicly well-known a’baddies
Toss up Steve Carell right there so ya’ don’t get dumb
Make sure that the Enterprise looks just like J-Lo’s bum
Mugato strolls on in and cries out “You damn dirty humans!”
Maybe Missy Rand be grandchild of yon Capote, Truman
Time travel gets them jiggy ta’ tha’ wild, wild west
Tempting Haley just shows up to show off her catty chest
Midi-chlorians now provide tha’ power ta’ make them stable warpy fields
And tha’ computer is now a’voiced by tha’ still spunky Sally Field.
Geez… I’m getting’ worse at writin’ these ditties…
Arrrrrr…
Just show us the damn ship!!!
#36 et al:
Dudes and Dudettes, I’ve been saying for months now that Shatnericus the Great is in this thing. I just don’t buy this “Oh, Poor Shatner Is On the Outs with the new Trek, He Didn’t Even Get to Visit the Set” bidness. C’mon. He’s in it. It isn’t even worth debating it a t this point.
I’ll even predict where he appears in the film: In an easter egg after the credits. On opening night, I’ll be the one yelling “I TOLD YOU SO! I TOLD YOU SO!” sometime after the Panvision credit scrolls past.
BND –
Midi-chlorians, JLo’s bum and Truman Capote all in one movie? Our heads will explode!
Bob, just remember — Trek started all this. You don’t need to follow anybody.
#87 spelling self-correction: PANAVISION. “Panvision” might involve bacchanalian peep-hole.
Speaking of the orbital skydiving scene…. they should use it in the new movie just to piss off Shatner. You have Spock save Kirk and then he goes orbital skydiving and the chute doesn’t open and SPLAT. you CGI in some Shatner using the “oh … my.” scene as Spock watches him die. Fade to effing black.
Pay Shatner nothing for it. Everyone’s happy.
BEST!!
=h=
I still think that Everything in the Trek Universe from ‘Yesterday’s Enterprise’ forward is corrupted timeline. So this movie isn’t really a reboot, its a RESTORATION.
Therefore, Kirk doesn’t die a weasely death in Generations.
Hey, it makes sense to me anyway…
HITCH –
That was already in “Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy.” That was Shat saying “Not again…”
Doesn’t the Shat have enough dough from all those Priceline ads? and they look like cameos to me.
Mr. Orci, please find a way to get those Shat dimples in there. The poor guy needs a better ending than dying because he was too overweight.
To Shat or not to Shat.
“44. US Taxpayer Dude - June 17, 2008
Oh yeah - “Generations” is nothing more than “Who Shot JT (Kirk)???”
IT WAS A BAD DREAM. NOTHING MORE. IT NEVER HAPPENED! I MEAN, WHO COULD BELIEVE IT WAS ‘REAL’???? LOL!”
US Taxpayer Dude,
Okay, who had that bad dream, Picard, 24th Century Spock, or 24th Century Kirk (Kirk would be about 120 years old)?
Navigator NCC-2120 USS Entente
/\
They added the “Spock’s Burial Tube on Genesis” coda to Star Trek II very late in the game (after showings for test audiences and even without Nicholas Meyer’s participation). There is still plenty of time to work in a Shatner appearance. If Spock is time travelling in this movie (and all indications are that he is) why can’t he, at the end of the movie, make a quick stop the day before the launching of the Enterprise-B to pay Kirk one last visit? Make a little joke about each of them looking older than they should, and end with Spock saying something to warn Kirk about the Nexus, and fade out from there, leaving it to audiences to contemplate what follows.
We only need the SHAT for 5 min scene… Next GEN Spock jumps back through the guardian of forever at end of movie and Kirk is there to greet him. “hello, old friend…where have you been?” Don’t need to explain how it happened, somehow Spock fixed the mess in Generations.
With Kirk alive we can hope for something with Kirk and Spock set in the next generation in the future…
However, as much as I love the Kirk character, this movie will be better if it does not turn into the Search for Kirk….
#86 YEAH!
ps I still think Shat’s in the movie.
WHEN EXACTLY WOULD ALL THE CAMEOS END?
I’ve always been on the fence where a Shatner appearance in TREK XI is concerned (would be happy if he’s in it; wouldn’t bother me if he’s not), but the more vocal proponents for a Shatner cameo make me wonder…
…how long before calls are made to stick Nichelle Nichols, Walter Koenig, Grace Lee Whitney and Majel Barret into future TREK movies (”My God, people, they’re getting too old! They need one more shot of glory!”)? Or, if STAR TREK XIII turns out to be the last film from Abrams & Co., will we hear cries of, “It’s imperative that footage of DeForest Kelly and James Doohan be CGI’d into the movie… for one last goodbye!”
Best to leave the last of the appearances with Nimoy and move on.
I definately want Shatner in but I am regardless quite excited about the project. Now we need more pics and or spoliers. I want to see the damn uniforms and not the Imperial Waffen SS and Bionic man academy jumpsuits. I think we are entitled to that hopefully by comic con
Mr. Bob- Methinks you love coming here and dropping the Shat’s name just to stir the fanboy pot - the guys here will be arguing about that one comment from now until the next subtle hint you drop!
101
No, but every body always asks. I hate saying, “no comment…”
Adam at #63 wrote: “The movie closes with the two of them smoking cigars and having a scotch.”
Denny Kirk & Alan Spock? LOL!! LUV it!
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
Kirk, Schmirk I say!
The Shat talk has just about bored me to death. Will he, wont he?
Well, if he does get in it,ll be good, if he doesn’t it’ll be good.
Not sure if i’m the only one who’s slightly nervous of the Orci/Kurtzman writing thing though. I’ve seen Transformers and wasn’t majorly impressed. Dont get me wrong- I couldn’t do it!
JJ on board will work the magic though…hopefully…
Someone tell me Orci/Kurtzman will do better.
Maybe I’m just being “terribly British” and pessimistic…
Fingers crossed!
“and now with another year to go, who knows?”
Looks like I might have a reason to start posting here again. Thanks Boborci.
#102: Instead of “No comment,” how about something like: “Pay your ten bucks and see the movie, dammit!!”?
Just an idea. I have zillions of them. Sometimes they’re actually good.
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
Mr Orci
Please put William Shatner in this film. It wouldn’t be the same without him.
Hey, at the end of the movie have Spock return to his own time, have him turn around when he sees a shadow and when he raises an eyebrow in surprise at who he’s looking at…..FREEZE….end of movie!
There, I just saved the producers millions of dollars in conveying the same punchline without having to give in to Shatner’s likely outrageous demands!
More and more films are taking advantage of that fun space at the end of the credits—where cool clips that are not entirely related to the main story can be added. If Spock has a time ship and has survived the story, it would perfectly logical to add a Spock saves Kirk gig there.
Bob, I’m in the pro-Shat camp, myself, but maybe if you’d just put in a non-CGI tribble made out of one of Shatner’s rugs, everyone would finally STFU. LOL
I still have a feeling Shatner will be in the movie. It’s just like JJ to surprise us and keep things secret. It would be great marketing!! Orci’s comments, “and now with another year to go, who knows?:, leave the door WIDE OPEN!!!
88 regarding 85
Good point, CmdrR- So let’s toss in TNG’s Commander Remmick ta’ make sure someone’s head do go a’explodie!
Arrrrrr
VULCANISTA
We miss you in 69 Forward baby! Come back and Chat with us some time.
the g0oFbAlL formerly known as Lurker.
a wee bit off topic here, but this is for bob orci…
i get the empire magazine e-newsletter, and the most recent edition mentioned yours and alex’s name in conjunction with an upcoming production that has apparently just signed up robert downey jr. to star in and goes by the wonderfully ambiguous title of ….
‘cowboys vs. aliens’.
really?
no, really?
nah, you’re joking…….really?
108
Grrrreat idear, Harry… but may I add that tha’ last shot be of this humble sailor, drying hisself off after a hot shower?
Spock raises eyebrow- fans gasp thinkin’ it could be Kirk… cut ta’ BND all starkers and moist, then I growl like Chewin’tabacco at tha’ end of’ Star Wars growled… or I says ‘Rosebud.”
Spock say “So THIS is goodbye?”
Me boopy-awkk butt shall give it an “Arrrrrrr” rating fur sure!
Arrrrrrr….
#113
LOL!! So that’s what the chat’s called now! Apt. Very apt!
Still playing catch-up over in the newsy sections. I’ll see y’all there, my pretties, very soon, and your little dog too, Harry!
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
#102 Bob Orci
No comment does stink. Your comment this time was perfect and true. You have a year. I have all the confidence it will all work out. This is a wonderful oppurtunity to make Trek history.
not bein’ one ta’ get mixed in wit’ tha’ Shat spat, but bonny well be a lesson herein fur ye’ all:
The twelvemonth and a day being up,
The dead began to speak:
“Oh who sits weeping on my grave,
And will not let me sleep?”
‘Tis I, my love, sits on rock grave,
And will not let ya’ sleep;
For I crave one more kiss of yer space-cold lips,
And that is all I seek.
“You crave one kiss of my space-cold lips;
But my breath smells earthly strong;
If you have one kiss of my space-cold lips,
Your time will not be long.
“ Tis down in yonder starfield sheen,
Love, where we used to walk,
The finest flower that ere was seen
Is withered to a stalk.
“The stalk is withered dry, my love,
So will our hearts decay;
So make yourself content, my love,
Till God calls you away.”
Arrrrr… so bonny it makes me wanna tear up, move me bowels and all…
HEY- isn’t Pine playin’ Kirk?
What tha’ hell then, mates?! Got me so weepy fur nought.
Arrrrr….
The climax can be one of Shat’s rugs in a tribble duel with one of Koenig’s. Betcha The Shat one would win.
104
Dear British Pessimist,
You have nothing to fear, but fear itself. FDR
You gotta have faith..faith..faith. GM
said it here before…i’ll say it again - dont bother will having shatner as James Kirk and all that would entail (referenceing one of the worst Trek films and the silly nexus….anyway even if they did bring him back somehow how the heck would he be alive in old spocks time? hed be about 200 years old!)
instead have Shatner as Jim Kirks GRANDfather..like a scene like something out of the 1978 Superman with Shatner as grandpa Kirk ..his arm around the young Jim (Pine) telling him something similar to ‘you are here for..a..reason..’ as they walk in the farmland of Iowa…or the scene where Clark says goodbye to his Ma in the wheatfield - real Norman Rockwell imagry - actually there was a similar scene to that with jim and his brother in the opening pages of DCs Star Trek Annual from 1991 which was about Kirks academy years
maybe something similar to FIELD OF DREAMS too (which was set in Iowa)…vast open cornfields..the Kirks in jeans and shirts etc…no futuristic stuff - looking like it could be in 1960s (homaging TOS)…then at the end have a spacecraft decend in a cornfield (like a UFO) to pick Jim up to go to starfleet academy
Itd be quite logical - showing the Kirk gene pool (shatner has previously played Jim Kirks dead brother Sam in ‘Operation Annihilate’), hes about the right age to portray George Kirks father (whos probably supposed to be about 30 in the film) and most of all the Shatner of today has changed noticably from the Shatner of 1994 and before..therefore you wouldnt have him looking like he did when he was James Kirk which would be confusing..
volia..fan pleasing Shatner cameo.
Even if this hasnt happened and shatner changes his mind there would be loads of time to film it as it dosnt come out for another year..
Dear The OrcSter™,
I fully support you and Sir JJ® in the Shatner choices that had to be made. But you guys really need to definitively say at this point that Shatner is not in this movie and will not be in this movie.
It’s time. Call Sir JJ® on your iPhones. I stand at the ready at my exclusive private email ,only given to your team and JC, along with BIG DAWG AP supermodeldoug@aol.com
Please let me know how I can assist in this venture.
BEST!!
=h=
Mr. Orci…
In reference to 117.
Don’t make history, just make a great movie. I’d much rather go see a great Star Trek movie without Shatner, then a convoluted Trek movie with him stuffed into it like an egg-salad sandwich all sloppy falling out the sides.
Don’t get me wrong, I like egg-salad sandwiches, but I don’t pay for them in restaurants.
Mr. Bob#102- But the fanboys so love to grab this bone, gnawing and biting it to pieces… Are you sure you do not enjoy throwing this bone just a little, only because you know how much they enjoy it, of course…
Vulcanista- Shame on you for deserting us in 69 Forward. Just for that you will have to write a short story the next time you visit us. Subject matter: Spock’s first time.
BND#118- LOL!
See, the problem with the whole “dead Kirk” thing is that once you get him brought back from the dead and all, he’ll just want to eat the flesh of the living and walk around the country-side in a zombie-like trance eventually trapping some thrown together folks in an old country house and exposing all the weaknesses of humanity. That and he wouldn’t be able to do the “Space, the final frontier….” thingy because all he can say is “Ngong hommn augghh”.
Dear Denise de Arman™
What is 69 Forward, and why is it still missing some hitch? call a supermodel post haste!
BEST!!
=h=
108. Harry Ballz, that’s the best suggestion I’ve heard so far. A great sense of ambiguity and a great setup for the next movie.
I just hope they aren’t going to kill off any of the main characters again. This weakens the franchise - not strengthens. Killing off these timeless characters won’t make me start to like the characters in the spin-offs more. Later spin-offs of ST tried to feed off its popularity by weakening the TOS characters hoping that we would then embrace the newer characters - but it doesn’t work like that.
#123
- Don’t make history, just make a great movie. -
I think you just (unintentionally) nailed it down - no Shatner, no chance to make history with XI. :)
Well, Mr Orci, I think if you can have both, go for it!
is it “Orca, tha’ killer whale” or truly “Orci, tha’ fill-in a tale” ????
I sometimes impersonate Geo Lucas on threads claimin’ I be “quick on gin” when I pen me modern stories…
People catch on quick when I mistake Ewanks fur Teddy Ruxpins or that buggery-boo in A.I. … “how come they didda not take out thar’ batteries?” oh… which reminds me… time fur I ta’ pretend ta’ be Speel’a'berg somehwar…
Arrrrrr…
Can’t we just pretend that ‘Generations’ doesn’t exist? Or perhaps Spock could spend a few minutes hunting down the ribbon and get the ‘echo’ of Kirk? I suppose that may take too long to setup and work with the current script.
Shat could easily show up in the time of the elder spock, in some sort of holographic memorial display or a statue or something.
IMO, there’s still a story to tell for the TOS crew & Shat, back in their own orignal timeline.
Chekov, Sulu, Spock, Uhura; all could have a role in a continuation of what happens after the Nexus encounter. Did they really just assume that Kirk’s disappearance implied his demise? His body was never discovered, and all reports indicated that the Nexus kept people alive in some sort of suspended state.
In the novelization of Generations, they even go so far as to have Chekov learn from Guinan that “his friend” was still quite alive…
I’ve seen this before back in the late aaaayties all the grate Van Halenists kept saying “bring back David Lee™”. They really thought that was what they wanted.
This went on through the nineties, and into the 2000s. Finally in 2007, it happened. AND BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR.
It was OK, I suppose. But it didn’t bring back 1984, nor was the 2007 Dave anything as cool as the 1984 Dave. In fact, it all seemed a rather perfunctory cash n grab.
Kind of like the new Indiana Jones movie. Don’t do this to our beloved franchise. Shatner’s too old and too fat, too buffoonish. He died in Generations. Lettuce leave him there.
BEST!!
=h=
THX#125- LOL! Space, the final frontier. These are the voyages of The Shatner Zombie…
WELSHIE!!!
The “echo” of Kirk, or anyone else for that matter, would be just that, an echo, a brief reflection of the true self, not the same as the real thing.
I honestly hope we don’t have to revisit GEN in this movie, that’s not the movie that’s going to bring in mainstream audiences
Orci can we please find a way to get Bruno Ganz in the film??? I just watched Downfall again last night and I’d love to see him in the movie shouting and people in German or at least a thick German accent. Besides the man is haunting truly haunting.
… Zombie Kirk wants Spock’s brain… brilliant story thar! Somehow chuck in tha’ space hippies, a were-tribble, and deformed Pike in his roller-wheelie and we’s got it…
Star Freaks…. disgrace, tha’ banal frontier… these are the horrifyings of tha’ harm-ship Slasherprize…
Arrrrrrr….
Check out post #14 for my other take on a similar theme.
#131 “Can’t we just pretend that ‘Generations’ doesn’t exist? ”
You mean it DOES exist??
………nah.
BND#138- LMAO!! “…the Harmship Slasherprize”!!
“Subsequently he said he would require a slightly larger part than maybe this movie could sustain…”
That tells me two things. First, that Shatner’s “I don’t do cameos” comment was indeed influential in the “Supreme Court’s” decision not to cast Bill Shatner in the film. Secondly, it is obvious that writing Bill’s character (the one who was killed in Generations) into a major role would not be beneficial to the resolution of the story, and therefore put the story’s integrity in jeopardy. It’s very simple. They didn’t write a story about Shatner’s Kirk. This is a TOS prequel, tied into the post-Nemesis era. That has absolutely nothing to do with Shatner’s Kirk. He’s gone (”moldering for quite some time”, as Nimoy said). William Shatner has had his farewell as Kirk (STVI), and then even a bad curtain call (Generations). It’s over. Kaput. Finished.
Who knows if he might have been offered a cameo appearance (like a flashback scene, depicting a pre-Enterprise-B conversation between Spock and Kirk) which might have been beneficial to the story? Saying things like, “I don’t do cameos”, and calling their choice not to grant him a more significant role a “bad business decision” and even more arrogantly, a “bad box-office decision”, is certainly inhibitive behavior, IMO.
The bottom line is, we are going to be treated to an adventure which features the iconic characters of the Original Series. I, for one, am very thankful for that. I’ll extend a personal “thank you” to everyone involved just for the effort. If this were another TNG movie, I would not be planning on paying to see it in the theater, and I certainly wouldn’t be perusing this site daily for any news.
It’s all about Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Scotty, etc. . Not that I don’t care who’s playing those characters, but to assume that only Shatner, Nimoy, Kelley, Doohan, etc. have (or sadly, had) the talent to do so is ridiculously narrow-minded. Furthermore, making the judgement now that this film would be any better with Bill Shatner in it is equally absurd, given the fact that no one on these boards has even seen it.
THX#14- You and BND should collaborate on an ST/Horror crossover. How is this for a title - Star Trek: The Final Decapitation.
Although I am one who absolutely, positively wants to see Shatner return as post-Genrations Kirk, I don’t think Star Trek XI will be crippled if he’s not in it.
Star Trek XI’s mission is to bring Star Trek back. Star Trek XII should bring Kirk back. Shat isn’t going to be around forever you know.
141
Indeedy-do.
Arrrrrrr… why’s yer space suit a’comin’ wit’ a goalie mask… and yer so taciturn yet bonky about sawin’ up tha’ enlisted?
Cuz’ Bob wrote me that way… now, whar’s tha’ horny young crewman fur me ta’ filet…
Uh, oh… Sub Rosa territory mates…
Arrrrrr…
14
Tasha Yar be thar! Dead again and again!
Arrrrr….
#145
And we could call it “Something Wacky This Way Comes”?
#124: Denise, I’m workin’ on that story for ya, girl!
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
Parrrrdon me here…
But i feel tha’ fabric of dis thread has shifted from scratchy rough courdoroy ta’ softer sheepskin…
Still unsettlin’ thou…
So, what have we learned from dis thread?
1. Many folk would dismember their own sweet, dear mum just ta’ see Billy boy in tha’ new flick.
2. Bob Orci spies on us… knows when we tinkle.
3. In the universe thar’s a million things ye’ can have and a million things ye’ canna have.
4. Chris Doohan pops in here and there… now, I’m sure he doesn’t care when we tinkle but he may know how we eat those frozen chicken nuggets straight from tha’ box, only just defrosting in tha’ fridge.
5. TOS and an origins story are business as usual fur Hollywood ta’ let people know who the frak these folk are on-screen and what they be doin’ … yet still have some pop-culture idea who they be… “Kirk? Yeah… wuz on Growin’ Pains… now he’s so holy he makes tha’ Pope look like a pile o’ puke cathedral torcher.”
and…
6. “The Underpants Monster” would be a good addition to the beginnings of a Horror Trek we is developing here.
ta, me lovelies…
arrrrrr
#144—”Star Trek XII should bring Kirk back. Shat isn’t going to be around forever you know.”
While I otherwise appreciate your point of view, I can’t agree with that statement. Kirk died in the incident aboard the Enterprise-B. I fully expect any sequel to STXI to be a continuation of adventures featuring the younger versions of those characters, and set aboard the original NCC-1701. I certainly hope that future films are not a series of time-travelling adventures. There are plenty of 23rd Century gaps to fill, like the years between TOS and TMP (prior to the refit) and the those between TMP and TWOK (prior to the assignment of the Enterprise to training duty). I would rather see future stories told within those gaps, which total about a decade or so (given the assertion in TWOK by Jim Kirk that he hasn’t seen Khan in 15 years).
I think the point of the time-travel element in STXI is, as you said, to bring ST back, but also to involve Leonard Nimoy and tie it in to the post-Nemesis era. I hope that is the extent of it.
#32- you need to polish up your time-travel theory.
Once Spock goes back in time, he is creating a new time-line. The TNG universe still “exists” unchanged in one sense, and yet a new timeline is spawned in which major changes are inevitable- perhaps even one where the Nexus situation is handled very differently. Yet this variance does not “undo” any TNG history as the post Trek XI timeline is in its own contained universe.
Google “John Titor” for a look at a modern-day hoax in which the hoax creator explains time travel.
*groan*
#150—”you need to polish up your time-travel theory”
LOL!!!!
Yes, let’s “polish up” on theories which operate (at the very least) on the far most fringes of scientific credibility before we comment on how they might be applied to a Star Trek movie. Whatever was #32 thinking?
BND#148- Eating those uncooked chicken nuggets may cause Salmonella, which in turn can cause hallucinations and certainty that one is a Mugatu in pon farr… For the sake of female Mugatus everywhere, lay off the uncooked chicken nuggets.
Arrrrrr…
Denise,
Got it. Save tha’ Mugatus… so they can bite and kill our future generations….
Aye, aye
Arrrrrrr….
Hmm…a year to go. SHat looks “Shattastic”…..and like the good vulcan says, there are always possibilities.
here’s hoping!
PS Bob Orci, I love surprise parties!
153: Oh, for a minute there I thought you said eating uncooked chicken nuggets could cause SPOCKANELLA…never mind.
Vulcanista! You live!
Mr. R. Orci: Do whatever you want. Really. Feel free. I’m going to see the movie no matter what.
Here’s what this thread sounds like to me:
Kirk’s going to be in the movie.
No he’s not.
Kirk IS Star Trek.
No he’s not.
This is all a plot to get us to go see the movie in case Kirk’s in it.
No it’s not.
Anything you can do I can do better.
No you can’t.
My opinion’s better than yours.
No it’s not.
In summary, and as others have said more eloquently than I, if Shatner’s in the movie, fine. If he’s not, fine. But if people in my movie theatre jump up and start screaming “I told you so!”, retaliation involving buttered popcorn and Pepsi in uncomfortable places will be in order. :)
#142 “Furthermore, making the judgement now that this film would be any better with Bill Shatner in it is equally absurd, given the fact that no one on these boards has even seen it.”
Sorry CLoset Trekker, I know you don’t like Bill Shatner but in my opinion, any TOS film that has Leonard Nimoy as Spock can only benefit from the presence of Bill Shatner AS Captain James T. Kirk. HOW it happens isn’t an issue. These guys are good writers AND Trek fans…HOW it’s done isn’t a problem, they can make it happen.
The bottom line is, the originator of the Kirk role, an incerdibly popular actor, participaing and reuniting with his costar of 40 years, in a TOS themed movie can only create buzz and excitement and, ultimately, benefit the film and the franchise.
Personally I dig Shatner…he never stole my candy, kicked my dog or short changed me at the drive through. I hope he’s in.
Shatner is in the movie.
I am not fooled by all the doublespeak.
When the movie is finally released my statement will be vindicated.
I mean, c’mon, does anyone honestly believe that the guys behind Lost are worried about confusing an audience.
Don’t believe the dog and pony show.
There Bringing Shatner Back,
Is it because Chris Pine Don’t know how to act?
He hasn’t lost it he’s still got the knack,
It doesnt matter that he’s gotten fat!
DRAMATIC PAUSES!!
*Boogies as he craws back into his hole singing to himself*
DB#157- Shat helped kill his character in a poorly-written, lazily-conceptualized, stupidly-directed movie over 10 years ago. I say he is out.
Jay#159- Did you see the guy doing the Justin Timberlake spoof on Shat on YouTube - that sounds a little like his song!
Bob Orci: Why did you open up that can of warms again? I mean, really!!! You are an intelligent guy, so why did you say “and now with another year to go, who knows?”. Are you just toying with the Shatner fanatics? I don’t know why you would do that, but I can’t believe your statement was serious. Help me understand.
I am cracking up about now. Man I love message boards these daze! I still can’t wait to see what type of film this STAR TREK turns out to be. Can’t wait…
oh yes Kirk is in it I believe…;)
To say that Shatner alone would ruin the movie, or that Shatner should be kept out because he “helped” kill off the character, or has no respect for Star Trek or the fans, or has become a Priceline goof……etc., are not sufficient reasons for the producers/writers to keep him out. The only rational reason is that his character does not fit in the script, either in believability, stature, or simply lines on the page. He’s not in it because the character is dead is not a valid reason. However, he’s not in it because the character is dead, and we don’t have enough room in the film or relevance to retell the story of his return, at the expense of the film, is. That isn’t what Abrams said, which is unfortunate, but I think he was trying to be respectful of Shatner, and not just say “We don’t have room in the Star Trek movie for William Shatner.”
Whether Kirk was still alive or dead, they simply could not have Shatner as a cameo. That wouldn’t be fair to him or the fans. I myself just can’t imagine watching a Star Trek feature with only Nimoy, no Shatner. Generations and most of Search for Spock were icky enough. It’s no more Fanboy to have both than just the one.
I would still be nice if somehow they got Shatner to do the “Space…The Final Frontier” though.
Anthony Thompson - June 17, 2008
Bob Orci: Why did you open up that can of warms again? I mean, really!!! You are an intelligent guy, so why did you say “and now with another year to go, who knows?”. Are you just toying with the Shatner fanatics? I don’t know why you would do that, but I can’t believe your statement was serious. Help me understand.
A: Interview back in march. I was asked usual questions. Movie had just been moved. And I figured, “who knows?”
The queen of diamonds, Bob…..the queen of diamonds………..
#158 “Shatner is in the movie….don’t believe the dog and pony show”
Darryl, if that’s the case, is Shatner the “dog” or “pony”?
(and don’t say pony just because he likes horses)
It’s all too predictable.
Yes Shatner WILL be in the final 5.
How’s that for a Sci-Fi tie in?
Hey, why not have that multicolored rain cloud thingy from Generations make a return trip and drop off the Shat man on the captain’s chair of the new E?
Stranger things have happened in the Start Trek universe.
There, I solved your writing dilemma. Make the check payable to “324″, unless you send it tomorrow in which case it should be “323″ and so forth.
#63 - “Get Shatner in the movie. Spock is time traveling and NOT saving his friend? The one who risked everything for him when he died? Ridiculous. Go into orbit around Veridian, don’t hit the nexus, beam him up at the right moment, perform some sickbay magic. Take him back to whence Spock came so as not to change the timeline. Period. The movie closes with the two of them smoking cigars and having a scotch.”
A number of us have written out that basic scenario in various threads. It shouldn’t take too much to make The Shat look 14 or 15 years younger. And if the wardrobe department needs a triple-hook girdle to squeeze his ass into, I think my mother-in-law has a few she’d part with. *MOO-O-O-O*
LOL :-)
Jeez, so many people jumping down Mr. Orci’s throat on the Shatner issue. Just leave it alone. I don’t care who is in the next Star Trek movie as long as it’s a great movie.
BTW, I think Mr. Orci uses Google Reader or some other kind of RSS feed gatherer to keep an eye on TrekMovie.com. I know I do!
I’ll even throw her in as part of the deal.
“Take my mother-in-law - PLEASE!”
*rimshot*
#167 “Darryl, if that’s the case, is Shatner the “dog” or “pony”?
(and don’t say pony just because he likes horses)”
Okay Harry, then I’ll say pony ’cause Shatner is hung like a horse.
#165
Mr Orci, this was after JJ said on 20th January : “The only reason Mr. Shatner is not in the movie and Mr. Nimoy is, is that his character died on screen.”
Are you saying you have more time to figure out how to do this and its on the cards? Or just playing? Some fans feel we were messed about before. As Anthony pointed out the Shatner “Don’t do cameos” comment was from October but we were led to believe it was still on the cards all the to JJ’s interview end of January…
There’s loads of inconsistencies, but I refuse to hope its still a possibilty, as my hopes were shattered a few months back by JJ Abrams.
Read somewhere that Doctor Who, which has been around longer, has a younger fan base than STAR TREK. This Shatner business is a non-issue as far as I’m concerned. TREK is dead unless it can renew it’s fan base with younger fans. THAT is the Prime Directive. Shatner being in the film or not being in the film, is of secondary importance–unless his appearance damages the film. Only older fans can be the beneficiaries of his appearance, so why put him in since he is of little importance to the story which is already written and filmed? Why risk it? Seems like a no-brainer to me.
What concerns me is the studio which has the last word in this matter, and can surely see this controversy, may force the producers hands–irregardless of the damage it does to the film and shove Shatner in. That’s why it is imperative for Abrams and co. to put out this fire once and for all. They need to make a concrete, public statement, one way or the other, and be done with it. If they in any way think this matter is healthy for the project, then I question their sensibilities. The fanatical Trekkie label and image has already helped to damage TREK in the eyes of the mainstream, which just happens to be the very audience they want, correction, need for the film to succeed. What a pity they don’t seem to see that.
This time, it’s possible that Abrams’ penchant for secrecy could turn and bite him and everybody concerned in the ass.
I have a question: Are there any other gaps you’d like to fill besides the origin story of the Enterprise and crew?
Personally, if the story of the Romulan War was told on screen then I think that plus this series of movies would make the Star Trek story complete for me (until new questions are posed of course!).
#173
Darryl, I’d yell at you, but I have a colt and I’m a little horse! *rimshot*
#177
Nay, I say, let’s take a gallop poll about this so we can ride it out to a stable solution.
(yeah, that wasn’t great, I know)
“Not only do we not want him in this movie, but having him in this movie would ruin it. I dont care what you think you want. A heroin addict wants a fix when what he needs is rehab. It’s a best interest kind of thing I am talking about here. ”
Speak for yourself dude. “We” have nothing to do with your opinion. “We” want him in the movie so please stop trying to tell people you have absolute knowledge on something when you don’t. “We” make up a considerable portion of the fanbase and “We” (not to be mis-represented by your wishfullness for everybody to agree with you), don’t care how old he is or what priceline commercials he’s done. You need to except that “We” is just you and the handful of people who want an excuse to hate Shatner. Period!
Bob Orci:
Bob are you willing to go on record and confirm Shatner’s story that he was never offered any type of cameo role?
I understand if you can’t say one way or the other, but it seems likely to me (if you read between the lines) that Shatner was offered some type of cameo and he turned it down because he wanted a bigger role/more money.
His daily statements about not being in the film seem more like a public negotiation than someone who genuinely is upset (I’m sure he is to some degree) about not being included.
I find it odd funny how his stance has changed from “I don’t do cameos” and “I’m worth the salary” before the shoot started to “I’d be happy to do a voice over” after the film has wrapped and only pick up’s remain. Is it that Shatner understands the only way he can be in this film now is to put his ego aside and take the cameo that was offered to him?
Besides, I don’t for a second believe that “The Price Line Negotiator” and the guy who makes paint ball videos is to high and mighty to make a cameo in one of the biggest films of 2009. It just doesn’t add up.
J.J. Abrams is on record as saying that he wants Shatner. William Shatner pops up on tv every day saying that he wants to be in the film. What is the issue?
I may sound like a crazy conspiracy theorist, but it seems to me that there is more hear than meets the eye.
I
Oops I meant to say here not hear.
I wish I could type
#178
Darryl, the mane thing is…….you tried!
Mr. Bob- (sighs) So sorry about my comment at 101 now - I had forgotten how seriously strung-out some of the carbon units become over this subject…
SHAT’S IN! SHAT’S IN!! BANK ON IT!!!
WHOO HOO!!!
#157—-It’s unfair to say I don’t like Shatner simply because I trust the filmmakers’ apparent conclusion that his presence would not benefit the story they are trying to tell (at least in anything more than a “cameo”). I love Shatner as Kirk, and I regularly enjoy rewatching his performances on dvd.
Your conclusion that Nimoy+Shatner is better no matter what is totally unsupported. In fact, STV: The Great Trek Turd should be evidence enough that this is not necessarily the case…At least my conclusion that his presence would not benefit the story is supported by their ultimate decision to leave him out.
A good story without Shatner’s Kirk is a much better prospect to me than a mediocre one, which was handicapped by the forced resolution of someone else’s mistake…I don’t buy that Kirk’s death in Generations is Mr. Orci and Mr. Kurtzman’s problem, nor the problem of anyone else on the creative team involved with STXI (a story which has nothing to do with Shatner’s Kirk). The story they wish to tell does not require, nor is it benefitted by (at least in their minds), the resolution of a poor decision on the part of the TNG-era moviemakers (and Shatner himself) to kill the character at that point.
#164— “The only rational reason is that his character does not fit the script”.
I believe that is the case, and I think Mr. Orci inferred as much when he said that Shatner “…required a slightly larger part than maybe the movie could sustain”.
They were apparently prepared to consider a “cameo”, perhaps like the flashback scene I have often suggested they could get away with (a conversation between Spock and Kirk taking place prior to his boarding the Enterprise-B, and obviously with some relevance to the plot or what is in Spock’s mind at that particular point).
“I don’t do cameos” was a “bad business decision” on the part of Bill Shatner, especially since he was recently on The View unveiling a revisionist outlook on his absence in the film, and since we know that he is not really opposed to doing cameos (otherwise he would not appear in Horrorween).
My guess is (and this is speculation, of course), that he simply overplayed his hand in an attempt to convince Abrams and company to create a major role for his character (the one who’s dead) in STXI, and he ended up with nothing. Well, when you gamble, sometimes you lose.
Eric Cheung - June 17, 2008
I have a question: Are there any other gaps you’d like to fill besides the origin story of the Enterprise and crew?
Personally, if the story of the Romulan War was told on screen then I think that plus this series of movies would make the Star Trek story complete for me (until new questions are posed of course!).
A: Agree that Romulan War would be cool subject.
Sean - June 17, 2008
Jeez, so many people jumping down Mr. Orci’s throat on the Shatner issue. Just leave it alone. I don’t care who is in the next Star Trek movie as long as it’s a great movie.
BTW, I think Mr. Orci uses Google Reader or some other kind of RSS feed gatherer to keep an eye on TrekMovie.com. I know I do!
nope. Check it everyday.
I think we all now understand and accept, just as Shatner himself does, just as the OrcSter and Sir JJ have pretty much stated that Shatner is not going to be in this new movie.
Hopefully we are now all in agreement that while we may want it, it is not in our best interest to have it.
And finally, there’s no need to discuss it further. SO we shan’t talk the shat anymore.
BEST!!
=h=
#186—Bob Orci: Now we’re talking Bob.
What about filling in the gaps between TOS/TAS and TMP, or the gap between TMP and TWOK? There has never been a definitive answer to exactly when the events of TMP take place (only that Kirk has been Chief Of Starfleet Operations for 2.5 years), so it seems plausible that the NCC-1701 could have had another 5 year mission. Also, it is difficult to imagine the newly refit Enterprise having nothing interesting take place aboard her between the V’Ger incident and her assignment to training duty under Captain Spock. I don’t expect you to give anything away, but I hope you guys consider something like that if/when you write the sequel. There are 15 years between the events of “Space Seed” and TWOK, yet only one documented 5 year mission. That seems like alot of Kirk/Spock/McCoy left on the table.
189. Closettrekker - June 17, 2008
Agreed. Much territory. It’s why I liked so many of the books — you could imagine them happening between the movies…
Something that I have been wondering. People say that it is a prequal, but they also say that there is time travel involved. Is it about the future people coming to the past, or does it start in the past and have them meet their future selves. I don’t know if I am clear on what I just said. If anybody understands maybe they can answer.
#190–Bob Orci: My thoughts exactly…Alot of territory.
I know you have talked about it before in brief, but how far along are you in your ideas about STXII? Do you have anything specific in mind yet?
I like the idea of using that time period to perhaps introduce some new characters. Checkov is promoted and assigned to Reliant, so there is the need at some point for a new navigator, for example. I always saw Checkov as having been aboard Reliant long enough to have developed a familiar relationship with Captain Terrell, so introducing a new bridge officer in between TMP and TWOK would seem to make sense to me.
An since you brought it up, which of the novels is your favorite?
187.Boborci
I realize everything is so “no comment” and “hush-hush” concerning this project, but can you please ask JJ to tell us how much long before we can see the Enterprise…..and please don’t say 5-9-09.
we know it doesn’t look like a potato.
and thanks for just reading our posts…#3
Bob Orci
Tough question I hope you can answer……….in watching the Big Three roles be performed by other actors, was there a moment where you felt one of the thespians was almost “channeling” the essence of the original? Not an imitation, of course, but more the persona or spirit of what we enjoyed about the original characters from TOS?
Chris Doohan said “with or without Shatner this movie will rock!”
Damn it, can’t anybody be definitive on this subject?
SADISTS, I SAY!!
Old Spock has changed time some how. And old Kirk makes a cameo at the end of the movie when old Spock returns to his own time. No need to explain about “Generations” the Star Trek fans will know what has happened. The new fans at the movie will think Kirk has just survived death from the Romulans in the past. But Old Kirk has also survived death from “Generations”.
# 188 - hitch1969 stated:
“Hopefully we are now all in agreement that while we may want it, it is not in our best interest to have it.
And finally, there’s no need to discuss it further. SO we shan’t talk the shat anymore.”
Once again, you are incorrect in assuming that everyone agrees with you. And if folks choose to discuss it further, folks will.
Regards.
You have tendency to use the term “we” as if you speak for everyone. Obviously not the case.
How about the ending described numerous times with a replay of “Amok Time” where Spock thought Kirk was dead …
Spock Returns to the present, sees Shatner and says “JIM!” and whirls him around with a big ass grin on his face. “I am pleased to see you alive, captain, although I”m at a loss to explain why.”
PERFECT flasback to the old Star Trek!
Hitch shall be forever immortalized for coining the phrase, “we shan’t talk the shat anymore”
(sung to the tune “Don’t Get Around Much Anymore”)
“…unexplored territory.”
Wow. They really did think it out.
Very encouraging. In fact, more so with every bit of news.
“195. Kirk’s Girdle - June 17, 2008
Chris Doohan said “with or without Shatner this movie will rock!”
Damn it, can’t anybody be definitive on this subject?”
__________________________
Sounds pretty definitive to me: “The movie will rock!”
Mr. Orci thanks for the reply! Here’s hoping you get to fill in more gaps in the chronology!
I don’t think the future of the TOS’s characters has to be determined by what the spin-offs like TNG did with them. I’d diverge the continuence.
What was it Guinan said in ‘Generations’? Something like part of me always remains in the Nexus?
What did Kirk leave behind in the Nexus?
That door remains open as long as Shat can still suit up.
#203
Shat’s been playing the buffoon for so long now, would that be a clown’s suit?
Once someone has lampooned their own image, there’s no going back.
#185 … Do you just copy/paste your replies from a clipboard at this point?
nuqneH’
William Shatner is a Great actor. If Kirk can be back with a good story, Great. If not, I want a good story, nothing else. Except for there to be MORE KLINGONS!!! The Klingon story around the war that almost happened between Terra and The Klingon Empire is not told. I see a great story there as well as the ones stated here.
#198—That’s assuming Spock (Nimoy’s version) survives the film. Who knows? This may REALLY be his last hurah.
#205—The response was not directed at you. I was speaking to another poster who may not have read the same thing from me before. But no, I do not copy/paste them. If I take the time to respond in post, it is tailored to the poster’s comments to which I am responding to. If it bothers you, you are free to refrain from reading it. Otherwise, know that if I feel someone needs a dose of common sense and “logic”–if you will, then I am happy to provide it for them. I will continue to defend the creative integrity of the writers and the story they have chosen to tell. Only THEY know what is going to work, and what will not…I will also continue to respond to those who unfairly blame JJ Abrams for things which Shatner has had a big part in himself. Plus, I have nothing better to do…
Am personally looking forward to the scene when old and young Spock come face to face and shout out “….I’M OLD/YOUNG!!!!!!!!!!!!” and then Doc Brown runs on screen dressed in a Commander Kruge outfit and simply states “Great Scott!” at the impending paradox, and then runs back to the Delorean….
It’ll be an easter egg on the dvd…
I really don’t think this is any new news or an issue that has not been argued ad nauseum here before.
I believe…
Shat’s not in it… nor is there a grassy knoll conspiracy hiding the “real” reasons he’s not.
Shat’s not needed in it. Too many of the fanboy reasons why include references to “the last chance to see Shatner and Nimoy again as Kirk and Spock” rather than a chance to produce and view a truly good movie based on the script Orci and Kurtzman.
I LIKE JJ’s secrecy. I like to be surprised. This is truly the next generation of TOS and I want to know just a little… not a lot.
Someone called William Shatner a great actor. I can’t agree. I believe he’s a good TV actor. I’ve seen several of his non-Kirk roles and so many are variations of the same man. I believe a great actor can become a believable character and hide those elements of themselves that don’t fit the part. If he’s done that, I’ve not seen it.
And that’s NOT bashing. That’s an honest evaluation.
IMO
Shatner in the movie and time travel in the movie what more can we talk about???
I haven’t posted in many months. I thought this issue was settled. Shatner wouldn’t be in it. But Orci’s comment that there is still a year left, and who knows, makes me think something might be in the works.
And the level of attention and discussion that Shatner inspires is, I think, more evidence that he should indeed be in the movie. And if you think it would ruin the movie, you’re just being silly, because obviously the film is going to star younger actors, and his participation would rather small.
Kirok Fan, I’ve enjoyed your posts in the past and am not disagreeing with you now, but I have found that even a small abberation in an otherwise good film can reduce it from “recommendable” to “m