STO Update: Another ‘Path to 2409′ Entry + More Ship Images January 2, 2009
by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Star Trek Online , trackback
This week’s update on the upcoming Star Trek Online massive multiplayer game includes the fifth entry on Cyrptic’s ‘Path to 2409′ which shows the story progress towards the setting of STO. In addition we have more views of the NX-91001 revealed last week and a cool animation showing off ship customization.
Story takes step towards STO’s setting
The following story update was just posted (on StarTrekOnline.com):
Path To 2409: 2384
Federation analysts say that a shakeup in the Romulan power structure has left the empire vulnerable to attack from within and without. Starfleet is dispatching additional ships to the border of the Neutral Zone and considers the Romulan situation one of the main threats to Federation safety and security.After Tomalak’s defeat by Donatra and her fleet, Praetor Tal’aura removes him as proconsul, choosing Sela as her right hand and fleet commander. Sela, a human-Romulan hybrid with extensive experience in the military and intelligence fields, has been a part of several major Romulan operations, including a failed attempt to invade Vulcan and coordinating support for the House of Duras’ attempt to take over the Klingon High Council in 2367.
As a gift to Tomalak for his decades of loyal service to the Romulan Star Empire, Tal’aura allows him to “retire” to his rural estates on Romulus.
The Romulan defeat at Xantila has made open war with Empress Donatra unfeasible. Praetor Tal’aura reluctantly agrees to negotiate with the Imperial Romulan State to determine the new borders and the establishment of a neutral zone, but rejects the Federation’s offer to mediate the talks. Donatra says she would welcome the Federation’s input, but that she will defer to Tal’aura’s decision in this matter, and sends Admiral Taris to the Romulan capitol as her representative.
On Stardate 61602.00, Tal’aura is found dead in her private chambers. Tal Shiar investigators report that the praetor appears to have been attacked in her sleep.
The Romulan capitol erupts in a firestorm of rumors and accusations. Groups accused of responsibility for the assassination include a coalition of the noble houses, the Tal Shiar or agents working for Empress Donatra and the Imperial Romulan State.
Donatra denies having anything to do with the murder. “I face my enemies on the field of battle with honor,” the empress announces in an address to her citizens, “not with a knife in the dark.” She recalls Taris from Romulus and orders her to prepare to defend Imperial holdings.
At Tal’aura’s funeral in Ki Baratan, Sela publically blames the Remans and the Unification movement for the attack. “They claim to desire peace,” Sela says, “but ally with the murderers and usurpers who terrorized our planet and led us to the brink of destruction. The blood of one praetor was not enough for the Remans. Tal’aura was the victim of their thirst for destruction.”
But the upheaval in Romulan space is not the only potential war that Starfleet is monitoring. On Stardate 61829.83, the IKS Quv is attacked by a Gorn ship and 207 Klingons die in the battle. Representatives of King Xrathis of the Gorn claim that the commander of their warship was acting without orders, but refuse to surrender the surviving crew of the Quv to the Klingon Empire. In response, Chancellor Martok expels the Gorn’s diplomats from the empire and orders ships to the Klingons’ border with the Gorn Hegemony.
Representatives of the Federation Council are pleased to accept Bajor’s renewed application for Federation membership, and pledge to fast-track the planet’s admission. The increased traffic and commerce that could arrive with Federation membership prompts the Ferengi to open an expansive embassy and gift shop near Quark’s on Deep Space Nine.
Odo, acting as the Great Link’s ambassador to the solids, meets with his fellow changeling Laas on Koralis III. Odo invites Laas to return with him to the Gamma Quadrant. Laas refuses, choosing instead to continue to search for other changelings in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants.
And Starfleet decides to transfer the Soong-type android B-4 to the custody of the Soong Foundation. The prototype android was deactivated after its discovery by the Enterprise-E in 2379, but foundation representatives say they hope to restore his full positronic functioning.
So as of now STO is totallly on their own. They have moved beyond the Star Trek books are even now killing off characters. You can see the beginnings of where we will see the universe in 2409, with two major factions, the UFP and its allies, and the Klingon Empire and its affiliated races (either conquered or allied), which will included the above mentioned Gorn.
More views of the NX-91001 plus ‘customization’ animation
Last week’s STO Update revealed the new NX-91001 ship for Star Trek Online, now the Dutch gaming site MMOZONE has some additional larger screenshots of this new ship.
Click images to see bigger at MMOZONE
MMOZONE also has a nice section on the ships of STO, including a cool animation that shows off ship customization (for what appears to be a different ship than the NX-91001).
Click to see more on STO ships at MMOZONE
More STO
For more on STO, see our special Star Trek Online category for our most recent articles and also visit the official startrekonline.com site.
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Comments»
I like the animation and looking forward to STO.
Interesting but with the new Trek timeline, does any of this matter anymore?
Waits for the “is this stuff canon” debate to start……..
Perhaps the more relevant question might be, with all of this, does an alternate timeline movie matter? >:)
Ugly ship designs.
Licensees will not wag the dog – to what extent these products respect and adhere to what’s established is entirely up to the studio, not the fans or licensees.
I kind of expect the studio to shrug and take the money.
For all we know the current change in the TOS timeline alters very little or event RESULTS in the current TNG timeline.
Is this actually an argument on whether a fictional movie alters the reality of a videogame??
Man, I gotta lay off the Saurian Brandy. Dang Lizard Juice is making me crazified!
Dennis — Although I agree that this game appears to be in the fugly category ship-wise, a lot of variations would likely exist in 2409. So, there’ll be pretty ones and pretty ugly ones.
I wonder if anyone has come up with a star trek science explanation for the “cut ins” into the primary hulls we are seeing on ships now– or is just a way to shake up the look
Since all this was set up by the writing of Berman’s people, the same folks who killed the franchise and set up peace with the Romulans on several occasions ( How many of Picard’s encounters with Romulan captains ended with “many someday…”? How many of those captains are now Admirals or Senators?) , why wouldn’t we look at this game plotline as convoluted nonsense?
It seems that the Romulans have become the expanded universe “go to” villains when people have absolutely run out of ideas.
And since Paramount/Bad Robot/particularly Bob Orci have been using this very site to cushion the blow to old-school fans that the new film is indeed a reboot by way of creating an alternate timeline, why would we care what happens in the future of Berman’s version of the Trek-verse?
It’s just not relevant anymore.
Yeah, these are some seriously ugly starships. Just odd Sovereign-class variants, really. Oh well. It’s a video game. :)
SPOILER ALERT
i declare the rest of this thread a spoiler zone for movies, books and comics
In a recent STO Update I argued there should be more coordination between Paramount/Bad Robot, Pocket, Cryptic and IDW. The reasons are becoming more obvious. In 2009/10 we are going to see three different versions of the the post Nemesis future
1. Pocket Books
with the post Nemesis TNG books now moving towards a new conflict with the ‘Typhon Pact’ and shakeup of the Federation and Trek universe
2. Cyrptic
now moving past (and conflicting with) the Trek books to create their own setup for a war between Federation and KLingons (and no mention of a Typhon Pact)
3. Paramount/Bad Robot/IDW
Part of the new Star Trek movie will take place in the post nemesis ‘Prime” universe (dealing with Spock and Nero), before they go back in time. Being that this will be ‘film’ this will be the ONLY real canon post Nemesis. That story will be greatly expanded in the IDW ‘COUNTDOWN’ series of prequel comic books. These may also end up contradicting the Pocket post TNG books. Although comics are not canon, being that the story is coming from Orci and is related directly to the filmed canon, it will likely be seen as ‘more’ canon.
So people will just have to get used to these three different versions of the post Nem universe going forward. Cryptic and Star Trek online are saying they are talking to Paramount and IDW, so maybe we will see at least those two come into alignment. As for Pocket books post Nem stories and the movie, it could be that they dont conflict, even if they dont mention eachother, we will just have to wait and see.
But unlike how it works in Star Wars with their game, comic and book ‘EU,’ Star Trek continues to allow each medium to do its own thing.
So I suggest looking at these game updates as being just that, updates for the game and the story they want to tell to lead to a ‘two faction’ conflict, with each faction having an interesting array of playable races. Which really is the point of all this.
For those who have no interest in playing this game, there really isn’t anything of interest here except maybe idle curiosity since the game is its own thing.
Stop bashing Berman.
RICK BERMAN rules and everybody who says he killed Star Trek must coevally say he saved it.
Sorry, Picard, I’m going to ask you a question, and it is not for the purpose of starting an argument, rather more in Trek exploration style, I am genuinely interested in your interpretation of events -
How did Rick Berman save Star Trek? What did it need saving from?
Is this cannon?
If Rick berman killed Trek…. We would not be talking about Trek Now.
A lot of people seem to be complaining that this game or the novels “don’t matter” because there’ll be a new Trek timeline.
I don’t understand why that matters. Why can’t you enjoy multiple Trek timelines and continuities?
The Dark Knight is set in a completely different Batman continuity than Batman: The Long Halloween, and both are set in a different continuity from The Dark Knight Returns. But so what? They’re all great stories. Isn’t THAT the primary issue?
Looks like 1990s to me…
#9 – Relevant to whom? As far as I’m concerned–and not telling anyone else what they should be thinking, of course–if the movie has created an alternate timeline, going forward, it is the *movie* which will cease to become relevant, not 40+ years of all the rest of Trek.
#11 – I suppose that part of the question will be, how far post-”Nemesis” will the film take place? Another part might be whether the events of the early 2380s in the Pocket version might be over and done with in time to move into a world like that of the game.
A couple of years ago, at Shore Leave, Margaret Clark described briefly why there wasn’t any real coordination at the time between Pocket and Perpetual. The folks in charge of STO at Cryptic seem to be cut from a different cloth, but I haven’t heard whether they have spoken to Margaret or not.
#14 – I think this is a game, not so much a big gun. ;)
#15 – As always, the claims of Star Trek’s death have been greatly exaggerated. It’s not nearly so easy to kill as all that, it would seem.
Shouldn’t we all be happy that we are getting a new Star Trek game that hopefully is better than the last few?
Actually what would make me ecstatic is a Star Trek game along the l ines of Bridge Commander which has updated models, along with the ability to allow you to wander around more of your ship than just the bridge. Then to cap it all, the extra gameplay of being able to put together landing parties, away teams (take your pick) and play out the mission.
Could make for a great single and multiplayer experience.
Sounds great, if only someone would write it.
Actually, If you click the link with my name you may just find something like that is being put together.
12 “RICK BERMAN rules and everybody who says he killed Star Trek must coevally say he saved it.”
Bjo Trimble and millions of other letter writers “saved Star Trek”. Berman had nothing to do with Star Trek, one way or the other.
What Berman DID do, was sustain Gene Roddenberry’s weird offshoot of Star Trek, TNG. And, of course, all the shows that followed were with him at the helm as well. He ran it into the ground with familiarity and arrogance. Good riddance.
Michael Pillar saved TNG.
Wow, Cryptic really gets Gene’s vision. How does it go? ‘To boldly enter into a non-binding resolution as per the Khitomer accords section 12-B to formally condenm the actions of the Preator…wait a minute, you got Tom Clancey in my Star Trek!
Dear Cryptic,
If you can’t make a Star Trek game without reams of sub-fan-fic narative shoehorning the Trekiverse into something resembling an air-port paperback, don’t.
thanks,
A Concerned Trekkie.
After checking out MMOZONE it truely amazes me at how much creative liberty Cryptic is taking with the starship design of the 25th century.
This Star Trek Online stuff is a bunch of BS. But hey, I don’t have to play it, so I’ll just move on and enjoy the series, movies, and the upcoming blockbuster hit.
For myself, when I refer to the “death” of Star Trek, I really referring to the schism created in the fandom after “Nemesis” and “Enterprise”. Surely, we can see the effects of that schism here on the board for this one topic alone.
While Rick Berman did do Trek a massive service in allowing Ron Moore and Ira Steven Behr the freedom to create character-based arc episodes that far exceed the character explorations we had ever seen in Trek before, he did also hire writers who were forthright in their expressing the fact that they did not know, or even like, Star Trek. The prime case being Brannon Braga. I’m not a Braga basher – I think his are the best mind-f**k episodes in all of Trek – even his “Voyager” ones. But, to hire him to create the latest TV series, one that dealt exclusively with the minutia of the founding of Starfleet and the Federation, when he admittedly disliked classic Trek, and wasn’t interested in Trek as a whole, was a spectacular blunder.
Other posters are correct when they say that Trek was never dead, but now we have a Trek that has a horribly fractured fanbase – one wherein no faction of which can ever see eye-to-eye. And, frankly, that’s bad for business.
There are those that simply will not play this game because it is an extension of “next gen’s” most maligned film. There are those who won’t see the new movie because it will wipe away known canonical events in one complete stroke. (Kodos, anyone?) There are those who are angry because there will never be “DS9″ or “Voyager” adventures on the big screen. There are actually those who love the Diane Warren song at the beginning of “Enterprise”. There are die-hard Trek fans who have never seen any “Enterprise” at all. There are many who think “Voyager” is the best series of them all. There are many who will not see the new movie merely because William Shatner is not in it, despite thinking of “Generations” as 100% canon. There are those who think the continued use of the Borg on “Voyager” destroyed the Borg as viable Trek villains.
See what I mean?
There used to be a terrific consensus among Trek fans, and now that is gone.
Gorn against Klingons seems to be a cool idea…
#20 , #21 I completely agree.
I also don´t like the designs of the ships.
“Stop bashing Berman.”
…Hell hasn’t frozen over yet, so the answer to your demand is a curt and loud “No.”
It should be noted that John Eaves designed a lot of the ships for STO, Cryptic used his work that he did for Perpetual. Also ships such as the Defiant, Akira and Prometheus-class have already been mentioned in the Game Informer article as playable vessels as well as standard Galaxy-class starships like this one from the trailer: http://to.boldlyplay.com/graphics/ships/galaxyqn6.jpg
typical non-canon-designs, boring and shapeless. You would never see those scrapships in a tv-show or movie.
Im starting to dislike this game more and more.
Only 30 years post-Nemesis, maybe they can get some TNG/DS9/VOY actors to appear (voice/likeness) for special events?
weird… the NX-91001 in the first pic up top looks quite different from the pic from the last article…
Well The Storry makes much more sense then the last one they posted about a stupid Klingon war.
Sounds interresting and the last Ships seen in the Gif Animation
are looking pretty sexy :)
Cheers
TOMALAK is a way better Romulan character than the other two (sorry Sela and Donatra). Why would you ‘retire’ a character like that? I hope he goes all Dukat on their asses in this storyline. If this is just namedropping, and he really isn’t part of the story, I will not be happy.
I’d much rather play a game based in the same era as my favorite Star Trek episodes. It’d be great to command my own Galaxy Class starship, for instance, around the same time as the Enterprise-D was in its heyday.
Or hell, what about a Constitution-refit in the Wrath Of Khan era? Sticking to established eras would allow fans to connect to the characters, tv episodes, and movies they adore so much. That’s good business.
What isn’t good business is taking a chance with a new era based on a crappy TNG film when the entire franchise is moving in a new direction. What were they thinking?!
21. Pat D. –
“Michael Pillar saved TNG.”
Michael Piller killed TNG with Insurrection and Berman and Braga helped by retelling the same stories over and over and over and over until most viewers tuned out. They may have hit a chord with fans early in the TNG days but by rehashing the same stories – and the most mediocre of stories to boot – they proved they really didn’t know what it was they had done to make TNG successful in the first place.
Regardless, I am so bored with the 24th and 25th centuries I look forward to Abrams and co. returning to the frontier days of the 23rd.
# 35
I got the impression that Tomalak had Praetor Tal’aura assassinated after she “retired” him. I don’t think he’s quite out of the game just yet.
#25 I agree with you, Devon. The splintering makes me crazy. I don’t understand the fans who Berman bash, yet speak of so many Trek aliens and plot lines that are Berman-based.
Well 36, the Game was before anything was revealed about the new Movie.
And to the Bermann Fans/Non-Fans… Rick have done a Job, nothing more nothing less. Some of his Job was good, some was great, some was bad. Like all Jobs. Die he rescued Star Trek.. No. But he was the one who gave us Star Trek for nearly 20 Years. Without him there wouldn’t be a new Movie now to hit the Cinema. I don’t know if i like the restart yet. I haven’t seen the new Movie. I dislike the new Enterprise, but that is another Story.
To the Game, i also don’t like what there are doing to the Charackters i love from Star Trek. But are they non-Canon? I think they are pretty much Canon. When i watch Episodes of TNG/DS9/VOY that are Playing in the 25th Century than all of them have one Thing in Common. The Klingons are Strong, The Romulans are Weak or destroyed. Didn’t anyone noticed? There was never a glory Future for the Romulan Empire. So i think this can all be Canon. ;-)
I don’t like all the Concepts for the new Ships of the 25th Century. But hey i dont’t like all Ships of the 22nd, 23th or 24th. I always like only some of them.
My Thoughts to this.
#25: Trek fans were once united? Not during my lifetime, at least.
Indeed, Joan Verba’s wonderful history, “Boldy Writing,” which chronicles the fandom from 1967-1987, chronicles some *major* intra-fandom fighting as early as the late 1970’s with the emergence of “slash” fiction.
Essentially, ever since there has been a fan community, there has been an obscene level of bickering about every point in Trek. Berman was just unlucky enough to become a major target of that spirit of conflict. I don’t think it’s fair to Berman, but he was a Trek EP; it was to be expected.
He *did* save Trek from TNG’s disappointing early seasons, and made TNG the most-watched first-run syndicated show in history after the death of Gene Roddenberry. He co-created DS9 and VOY, two successful shows, and ENT, which failed because of the sinking network it was stuck on. That all could have ended before TNG even completed its run if it weren’t for him.
Now, on topic: I like this background, even more than I like what the novels have been doing lately (although, obviously, comparing a timeline to a novel is a bit like comparing apples and index cards, with novels being much tastier), and I’m still excited for the game. I also like the divergence of timelines in the non-canon universe. We’re not Star Wars, and I’d rather not suffocate like Star Wars has. Hopefully, most players will either won’t notice or simply won’t care. The fans, of course, will know about it, so they’ll be fine. Still looking forward to this game now that it’s being run by a competent studio.
#19: Mark Lynch: thanks for the link. Good to know that Excalibur is still being worked on. Can’t believe LJ’s still sticking to it… Now I have to go find out whether Immersion ever got released for the stock engine.
Can’t say I’m excited about this one. It just doesn’t seem to be a good concept. And the ships just look like rehashed versions of other ships. As much as I like Bridge Commander, Armada, and Legacy, I just don’t think this one will sell. I’m not trying to be insulting, but I can see how it comes off that way.
To those who Berman-Bash, I wouldn’t be a trekkie if it weren’t for Voyager and TNG. Also, it doesn’t make sense to whine about established canon that happened in the later series and then insult their creator.
Ok guys, I’ll let you in on a little secret – *I* saved Star Trek.
You’re welcome.
the ship design is godawful…Cryptic get a clue: get some fans to design them and you’ll probably end up with decent models.
39. rosequartz –
“I don’t understand the fans who Berman bash, yet speak of so many Trek aliens and plot lines that are Berman-based.”
I’ll give you my opinion on why that is (as a person who routinely bashes Berman). Rick Berman, Brannon Braga and Michael Pillar were essentially the caretakers of the Trek franchise and while they enjoyed many accolades during TNG’s heyday they did very little to innovate or challenge viewers in the years following. As much as I loved DS9 which Piller created he personally had nothing to do with the series after the pilot and Ira Behr and his team can take credit for the show. In fact, Pillar’s INS script snubs DS9 continuity throughout. Also Berman had very little interest in DS9 (fortuantely) and allowed Behr and company to make surprising unexpected choices as the series progressed. Piller, Braga and Berman were more instrumental in creating and shaping Voyager which, to me, was tepid, weak, derivative, hokey and safe – the least interesting of the Trek series. Then Berman and Braga created Enterprise and wrote almost all the episodes during its first two seasons. It was only after both of them let go that the series became interesting. Otherwise it was similar to Voyager in that the crew consisted of characters we’d seen before in similar positions (cantankerous Southerner at odds with stiff Vulcan science officer, maverick captain bucking the rules, token ethnic navigator and communications officers, token ‘weird’ alien/comic relief character). The scripts for those two seasons were always rehashes of TNG stories. The same can be said of Pillar’s awful Insurrection script which dredged up concepts from the most mediocre TNG episodes throughout. Lame, weak, safe, clueless as to what exactly made TNG successful to begin with.
So in my mind Berman, Braga and Piller were guilty of serving up the same stuff to us over and over in different-but-similar packaging. I place the blame sqaurely at these three guys feet for running Trek into the ground and taking away it’s ‘relevance’. Yes, we did get the occational interesting alien, character, concept during the post TNG years but mostly we got more of the same. And Trek did not grow with the debut of each new series. It remained what it had been years before even as audiences tastes changed and matured, Trek got dumbed down, simplified, lazy. It never surprised – only always gave us what we’d come to expect. And many of us kept hoping for something more.
I suppose many other fans were quite comfortable with Trek remaining the same so it was easy for them to forgive the repetitiveness. It just got me frustrated. I felt they had become very comfortable and believed they could just reheat the same stories over and over and we’d just keep coming back for seconds. Good riddance.
Ugly is as ugly looks…..and those ships are ugly.
A lot of Star Trek is Outdated as it is goes to TV ! I enjoyed the early Borg episodes in TNG , but in the later episodes , it was ridiculous ! I certainly didn’t imagine that in 300 years time , there would be an expansionist race with tubes running all over their bodies and whirring drills or metal grippers .. I would have thought they would be a lot more like Data !
Or , in Deep Space 9 , the Jem Hadar with their gangly Ketrecel tube feed ! This is not cutting edge Sci Fi !! Star Trek is Nerd Sci Fi !!
I see room for alternate timelines , they’re enjoyable , but I think the long termers like the interaction and the detail of the storyline ! I would say that It’s the episodic nature that attracts fans , the continuity , the canon !!
I think it’s a matter of what you grew up with that defines what Star Trek is for anyone.
I grew up with TOS. When I was a teen, I latched onto TNG. Both of those are Trek for me.
DS9 – To me, Trek isn’t on a space station. I know it has a big fan base, but for me Trek is on a starship.
Voyager – At this point Trek was grasping at straws. What haven’t we done? A female captain and a black Vulcan? Let’s do that. This series was pretty weak, though I loved Tuvok.
Enterprise – Again, what haven’t we done? A prequel? Let’s do that. Again, a mostly weak series.
When it comes to novels, comic books, video games, I could care less what they do. For me, if it’s not on film, it’s not real. It’s entertaining, but not real.
As far as the new movie goes, I wouldn’t be interested at all if not for the fact that they are going back to their roots. Don’t know if it’ll be good or not, but I’m willing to try it.
We all love Trek in some form or fashion, and we can debate all day the pros and cons of any version of it. In the end, for better or worse, at least it’s not forgotten.
Two more things on the Berman et al bashing:
1.) Berman didn’t “save” Trek, he was just its’ caretaker – even while Roddenberry was alive. Roddenberry chose Berman to run the show, not innovate. He chose someone who he knew would never overshadow himself. Guys like Maurice Hurley (because he created the Borg), Ron Moore (who made the Klingons interesting), Behr (who had a genuine vision for DS9) and yes, I’ll admit, Michael Piller for making us care about the TNG crew did more to “save” Trek than Berman did.
2.) As someone who has watched and rewatched every single hour of ‘official’ Trek I think I have a right to be critical of its failings. Obviously I wouldn’t have spent all those hours viewing if I didn’t believe Trek was still entertaining and something I still cared deeply for. It has enriched my life and I’m certain it will again. But when I look back over the years and weigh the good and bad I find there was a lot of junk in there that I had to sift though to find things I really liked. And I take exception with those I blame for producing that junk.
that little impulse engine or whatever it is hanging thinly between the 2 nacelles annoys the crap outta me, it seems totally tacked on and not thought out design wise (How easy it would be to severe it from the superstructure with a lucky phaser hit or something) really bad design for the Enterprise
NOT CANNONICAL
For decades now the “Star Trek” of Japan, Gundam, has existed in a multiverse of shows and books. Some are geared toward a maturre audience and some are aimed at children. Some are funny and homy while others are gritty and angst driven. The fan base has created time lines and reality lines to account for it all…
…and they love it. It allows familiar themes, characters, machines, story lines, etc. to be told again in new angles and with new focus… keeping a franchise alive and meeting the emotional needs of a variety of fans.
I see no issue with a multiverse for Trek. We just need to work out a fan based set of names.
In Gundam… there is the UC for “universal century” timeline, the AW for “after war” line, the AC for “after colony” and more… each are separate universes allowing writers to explore ideas and keep it fresh. A good show enhances the timeline and a bad show can be easily ignored. Star Trek V should be so easy to ignore. Enterprise should be so easily placed in its own reality bubble for some fans to love and others to hate without affecting “canon.”
I suggest something similar but more useful than the old TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT. Something that can lock many of the lines into a sphere of continuity.
#49 Izbot
I respect what you are saying. I watched only TOS thru college and for the next (many) years until Voyager was well under way. That’s when I ventured out of classic Roddenberry territory and began watching TNT. I watched TNG, DS9, Voyager and Enterprise on VCR, then DVD from start to finish. No waiting for episodes. I do see what you mean about reusing characters, aliens,etc. But I have to say, I found something I loved in each series, each alien species they threw at me. I actually liked Enterprise. Alot. I think Ira Behr did a great job on DS9. Some of the plot lines were weak, tepid, sometimes unbelievably silly in all the incarnations, but then I remembered The Archons and Spock’s brain and just enjoyed it for what it was worth.
My pet peeve is the people who blog that Berman et al are the devil. At least they were writing. And now Roberto and Alex have stepped up to the plate. I hope they improve on what we have.
This Romulan plot line of STO sounds interesting. (Anything with Sela sounds interesting to me.)
Berman CANNOT be bashed..it’s a standard cycle…he had his rise, his peak and in many respects a fall with Nemesis/ENT. So before u think of just the bad times, think of the good as well!
52. rosequartz
I actually loved Enterprise once Berman and Braga’s names disappeared from the writing credits…of course then they came back for the series finale, their supposed “valentine to the fans” which once more underscored how little they both actually understood those fans. ENT took real risks when season three came along and it became serialized (something Berman adamantly was against and Ira Behr fought with him over all through DS9 — a show that really needed to be even more serialized than it was) and in season four thanks to Manny Coto and the Reeves-Stevens who knew what was great about TOS and more importantly wrote some great wonderful daring stories that actually filled in Trek history. The more sophisticated audiences of today expect their shows to be serialized. That Berman was so dead-set against that showed he was a dinosaur resistant to change.
People also don’t take into consideration Berman and Braga’s personal dislike and ignorance of anything TOS. The two of them violated canon more than anyone else paying little if any respect to ground covered on TOS. By comparison I feel Orci and Kurtzman are far more respectful of canon (which is why I trust them to play with our perception of canon in the new film). Berman was essentially Chief Defender of the Faith yet his knowledge of and respect for canon was cursory. It’s difficult for me to credit B&B for ‘creating’ ENT since so little about it was genuinely original. It was only in other writers’ hands that it’s potential was met.
Voyager was, to me, just a poor idea. Roddenberry himself boasted that TOS was more thought-provoking and ‘adult’ than the only other sci-fi show on TV at the time, Lost In Space. Then almost immediately after his death Berman, Braga and Pillar decided to do their own version of Lost In Space but with a Starfleet ship and cardboard cutout characters we’d seen in the other series. And it was just as hokey, dumb and silly as Lost In Space was in its day.
#51 +1
53. Commander K –
“Berman CANNOT be bashed..it’s a standard cycle…he had his rise, his peak and in many respects a fall with Nemesis/ENT. So before u think of just the bad times, think of the good as well!”
Sure he can be bashed. As to ‘just thinking about the bad’ in Trek, I addressed this in the second half of #49. I’m not a Trekfan solely to dump on it. I love Trek and can find much to enjoy in all it’s incarnations (well, maybe not so much from VOY but Seven was alright). But when people like Berman drive it into the ground by being lazy and ignorant of even the very canon he was hired to preserve I think it warrants calling bullshit on.
I have gained incredible respect for Bob Orci without even seeing his finished product. His care and attention to issues of canon are obvious just from his interviews and blogs here.
I loved Manny Coto’s Enterprise and thought the Vulcan back story some of the best Trek ever done.
Voyager, I’m going to have to disagree with you on. Superficially, you could call it Lost In Trek Space, but Robert Picardo’s doctor was pure trek to me. The storyline defending his right to exist close to Picard and Data in “Measure of a Man”. I rarely found it hokey, but the point is that I am not a defender of B&B specifically, but just against the concept that everything after TNG was not worth canon. It is canon, and some it was superb. As you have pointed out, a lot of talented people poured their writing souls into post-TNG Trek and I’m happy that they did.
Not a big fan of the curved engine pylons…
Rosequartz – I agree and liked Archer’s Enterprise too – yet it is equally hated by 50% of trekkie viewership – a lot of trekkies didn’t even bother to watch it at all ! And I also should mention , roughly 50% of trekkie viewers abandonded Star Trek during the Enterprises run , with a large number preferring instead to watch ‘Stargate’ – (which I personally thought plotwise was inferior – but I thought the actors were good) .
I thought Enterprise had some of the best Trek ever . Sadly because of the changes in the paramount re-organization , it fell victim to the cutbacks , and a great series was shutdown unfinished !
57. rosequartz –
Okay, you’re right in that Robert Picardo’s Doctor was a wonderful character (I just somehow forgot about him in all my negativity). However, he did fill the fairly standard Trek dictum that at least one character exist solely to comment on what-it-is-to-be-human and there’s a fairly unbroken throughline from Spock to Data (and Worf to a degree) to Odo to the Doctor to Seven to the Borglings to T’Pol to a lesser extent.
And to clarify again, I don’t think everything after TNG is not worthy of canon. It just got stale. I still have to accept that Nemesis is canon no matter how negatively I feel about it. I feel B&B, however, chose to ignore canon whenever they felt — mostly out of laziness or disrespect. In interviews — even while promoting Enterprise — Braga often bragged that he’d only seen a few TOS episodes. Yet here he was mucking around in pre-TOS history undoing a lot of stuff that Manny Coto and company had to correct later (particularly with regard to the Vulcans whom B&B didn’t seem to understand at all).
#60 Izbot
I do agree with your last…. Braga kind of annoys me at conventions. And I, for one, am looking forward to Roberto and Alex’s take on this. I have the crew picture up on my desktop on all three of my computers—work , home, etc to get used to their faces. (Yes, my office staff thinks I am crazy) And how about B’Elana, her back story. OK, so it was reworked Worf, Troi, Spock, but she did it so well. I LOVED her story. And ‘Living History’ where the Doctor’s program was left on a planet and they told erroneous history for centuries on that planet until he told them how they misinterpreted.
And yes, Darfyn, I know so many people abandoned Enterprise, but I really thought some of the back stories were incredible. First Flight, the arm patch being taken from NASA. I love Enterprise crew at conventions. They are so great to talk with.
Each new show should have had a new creative team/show runner behind it. That’s why DS9 prospered and VOY floundered, because an entirely different creative team was working behind the scenes. You just couldn’t do TNG again, but they tried with both VOY and ENT seasons 1 & 2. The problem with Enterprise was it was a flawed concept to begin with, so no matter how great a guy Manny Coto is, he couldn’t save that show. At least Voyager had Robert Picardo & Jeri Ryan, as well as a few great stories (amidst a sea of admittedly boring ones). The actors & characters on ENT were so stale it was barely tolerable even when they did have a good story to work with. Jolene Blalock seemed to attend the Tim Russ School of Vulcanism where Vulcans are portrayed as being in a constant state of mild irritation. The only memorable character was Trip, and they decided to spit in everyone’s face by randomly killing him off screen. Such a waste. The only Star Trek I find myself turning off in reruns.
ok…I figured a comment about the game and ships in the actual article might be worth mentioning….I’m all full up on the “who shot Star Trek” stuff.
These ships are kind of interesting and fun….but whatever that little section between the nacelles is supposed to be isn’t working. It looks like someone left the “spru” tree from a model kit attached between the two nacelles. It’s out of place and detracts from an otherwise interesting design.
The Bermanverse is not to blame for the Cryptic update.
Berman seems to have “corporatized,” Trek forgetting that its success was never based on space battles and “grit.” DS9 ended up mauling Trek with bad main races and CGI battle diarrhea. The ratings tanked during the Dominion War, so Worf came back to no avail.
VOY reacted in its way to that failure and ENT, too. But with the Sopranos and all its spawns changing TV in the ’90s, it all just became sterile and uninteresting.
Cryptic’s fiction wreaks of the overuse of the dross of Trek canon. No one cares about Donatra or anything to do with “Nemesis,” and Sela is a failed character of the same rank as Sybok and Lazarus. The ships are cool, but they shouldn’t figure in the MMORPG too much if it’s to succeed. Give me men and women exploring planets instead.
#53
Agreed. I just finished watching a rerun of DS9 (’The Visitor’), probably one of the better episodes of Trek from the Berman era. What an excellent story.
#64
Berman thankfully washed his hands of DS9 early on, so he had little to do with its success or failure..Deep Space Nine was all Ira Steven Behr, Robert Hewitt-Wolfe & Ronald D Moore. I’d strongly disagree that it ‘mauled’ Trek in any way. If anything, it was far closer in spirit to TOS than any other spinoff. It was still the #1 syndicated show during its entire run. And that was with very minimal promotion from Paramount, who poured all their efforts into UPN & Voyager.
Also, the Dominion War was *after* Worf came on the show, not before.
61. rosequartz -
“Living Witness” was a series high point. I wished the rest of the series had been that bold. Never really cared for B’Elana but Roxanne Dawson was a pretty great actress when she was allowed to be. Loved her in “Blood Fever” and “Remember” but mostly she was required to act irritable and agressive — the standard Klingon characteristics. Roxanne’s turned out to be a great director, too — as good or better than Frakes, even.
62. sean –
“Each new show should have had a new creative team/show runner behind it. That’s why DS9 prospered and VOY floundered, because an entirely different creative team was working behind the scenes.”
I couldn’t agree more. Each series suffered from the fact that it looked, sounded and felt like all the others. By the time we got to ENT I had had more than enough Westmore aliens, Okuda graphics, same costume designer etc. Not to mention interchangeable music and Dennis Madalone jumping through the air pretending to be hit by a phaser.
65. Chingatchkook –
“#53
Agreed. I just finished watching a rerun of DS9 (’The Visitor’), probably one of the better episodes of Trek from the Berman era. What an excellent story.”
However Berman had very little input on DS9. He all but ignored it allowing Ira Behr and his writing team to come up with some of the freshest episodes and storylines in Trek. Only thing Berman did on DS9 was tell Ira to make the stories more episodic and less serialized. Fortunately Ira ignored him.
#67
I was a TNG fan, but I still didn’t want to see a bunch of TNG Lite. People complained about DS8 being onboard a space station, but I think it was the perfect choice to avoid repetitive storylines. Plus, the whole idea that if Sisko did something dramatic to a society like Kirk & Picard were often prone to, he had to actually deal with the consequences of his actions, whereas they could simply warp off to the next star system.
69. sean -
Yeah, for those of us who ‘got’ it, DS9 was a very rewarding experience. It anticipated the serialization of TV The Sopranos ushered in in the late 90s. Unfortunately Berman (and I blame him specifically for this) disliked serialization and refused to bring it to Voyager or Enterprise (during his two years at the helm). Voyager could’ve benefitted greatly by serializing it (Battlestar Galactica anyone?) but that wasn’t meant to be. Characters have time to develop since what happens in one episode carries over into others. That makes for a richer viewing experience. How did, for example, Chakotay grow during those seven seasons? By the second episode he was the same character he would be by the last. And that’s exactly why episodic television is dead.
…for a sligth interruption in the Berman killed/saved trek argument, My only complaint with the Star Trek Online storyline is that it neglected a fairly significant novel reboot event. By 2384, Bajor was already a part of the Federation. I mean they are doing the whole Tal’ura/Dontra war and such but they ignore Bajor joining the Federation in 2376/2377. But oh well, back to the argument.
ThisGameWillSuck
The U.S.S. Re-tread proves it.
Bring on a TOS era game with story and voice acting and stuff.
Current graphics would be cool.
This game SEEMS to lack in that area too.
These images have already been posted on this very site….
http://trekmovie.com/2008/12/25/sto-update-check-out-the-federations-next-big-ship/
Comment number 59
God. I hate the crossbar.
As if everything else about the ship wasn’t bad enough…
72: Sounds like you’re lucking for the Star Trek: 25 Anniversary game on CD ROM. OK it didn’t have very up-to-date graphics, but the rest fills in the blanks. Alternately, get with the times. TOS, as we knew it, is brown bread. And as much as I hate to admit it; TNG+ era is dead too. We might as well embrace ST: Online, as much as the designs suck, as much as possible, because it may well be the future of the franchise.
75- – - Often movie-to-game adaptations are no good. But I would love to see a video game based on the new movie. One I can play on my PS3 or X360.
And yes. I had that cd-rom.
I hate the crossbar…and I hate ships where the engines hang down like on the one in the pics above…it looks out of balance.
Looks purdy bad.
The other ships look a bit better… I like the ring-saucer.
Berman killed Trek?
I’d say the endless infighting among the FANS killed Trek.
I remember when people vowed never to see “Nemesis”. It may have not been the best film, but it was far from the worst. You think from those bashing it that it made $100 million because you’d also think the bashers had actually paid money and went to see the film in theaters.
Or watched “Enterprise” wither on the vine while producing some of the best Trek on TV since the 6th season of DS9.
And it continues…
We have people here bashing the new game and the new film sight unseen save for some photos and rumors.
Sometimes I wonder why Paramount even bothers. Then I remember the *true* fans who are willing to take a chance, who realize that Star Trek, like life, isn’t perfect, and you need to take the good with the bad.
#79
I respect what you’re saying Simon, and certainly Berman isn’t solely responsible for Trek’s eventual demise. However, I also don’t think there’s anything wrong with some healthy venting. The fans have been griping since Season 2 of TOS. If fans never provided honest feedback, the studio might continue producing inferior product (of course, they might do that anyway, but at least you can say you tried to warn them). Every franchise has outspoken fans.
I saw Nemesis in the theatres, and after I walked out I felt like someone had punched me in the gut. It was almost as insulting as Star Trek V, another movie that yes, I saw in the theatre. It def ranks next to that one as an incredible embarrassment, not just to the franchise but to anyone that loved TNG (I would be included in that group). I also watched Enterprise while it aired, but it never inspired me. I thought the mirror episodes were interesting but filled with overacting that would have made William Shatner blush. It was just too same-y for my tastes. At least TNG’s first two seasons were outrageously bad. ENT first two seasons barely registered either way.
Ok, good thing about the ship designs is some of them are bringing the neck back. That’s about all I like for the most part. The nacelles are fugly to say the least, and they have awkward looking drive sections that are too small. The only good thing is after looking at those I like the design of the new E that much better. And of course theyre going to bring data back through B-4, predictable but not bad. I just hope that this game isnt considered cannon.
79. Simon – Ja
“Berman killed Trek?
I’d say the endless infighting among the FANS killed Trek.
I remember when people vowed never to see “Nemesis”. It may have not been the best film, but it was far from the worst. You think from those bashing it that it made $100 million because you’d also think the bashers had actually paid money and went to see the film in theaters.
Or watched “Enterprise” wither on the vine while producing some of the best Trek on TV since the 6th season of DS9.”
I don’t think fans ‘killed’ Trek (it’s ‘death’ was obviously only temporary — like Spock’s). As I stated up above I’ve seen and re-seen every hour of Trek produced. And I paid money to see every single one of the movies. And yes, I did hate Nemesis anyway. But I’ve never given up on Trek. I hung on there til the end with ENT even when it did improve and I was actually getting Trek I *loved* again — only to have the suits at CBS or Viacom cancel the show just when it was hitting its stride. ENT’s cancellation *did* have a lot to do with Berman & Braga. Their first two seasons helming the show were derivative and stale. That’s what sent the fans packing early on. The few of us who stuck with it were pleasantly surprised.
“We have people here bashing the new game and the new film sight unseen save for some photos and rumors. Sometimes I wonder why Paramount even bothers. Then I remember the *true* fans who are willing to take a chance, who realize that Star Trek, like life, isn’t perfect, and you need to take the good with the bad.”
Now that I totally agree with. For the past two years I’ve been arguing and debating with the fans who are absolutely *sure* the new movie will suck or fail. I really don’t get that at all. I have always been optimistic about whatever new Trek was on the way. I *want* it to succeed and continue. But it does have to grow and compete in order to survive. ENT ‘died’ because it didn’t compete well and that was largely due to guys like Berman going the safe and predictable route — and viewers knew we’d boldly gone there many times before and it was just too familiar to be that interesting anymore.
#80…well, TOS’ third season absolutely dreadful, despite fan griping during season 2.
TMP was not the best film either. Imagine the internet reaction to it had there been one (a public internet anyway, not the military one).
But if fans had given up we would not have had anything beyond that.
I don’t remember fans crying about if Saavik was canon, or boycotting the film because Khan remembered Chekov, or complaining that Kirk was an Admiral again, or that the Reliant didn’t have a sensor dish, or that the uniforms were nothing like TOS or TMP, or that Nicholas Meyer wasn’t a fan.
I would like to see the new game succeed, as well as the film, because we will get more. But some fans expect that anything we get should be perfection, and if you look at the entire history of Star Trek that has never happened.
83. Simon –
“I don’t remember fans crying about if Saavik was canon, or boycotting the film because Khan remembered Chekov, or complaining that Kirk was an Admiral again, or that the Reliant didn’t have a sensor dish, or that the uniforms were nothing like TOS or TMP, or that Nicholas Meyer wasn’t a fan.”
That’s because we’re willing to ignore inconsistancies if the story delivers. TWOK obviously does that in spades. My sincere hope is that J.J. and his team do something similar to what Nick Meyer and his team did despite their being Trek virgins: deliver a really solid film that everyone can agree was mostly great. And that goes for this game (that apparently this thread was once about) as well. I think it’s okay to have reservations about both, though. But yeah, claiming they both completely SUCK before they’ve even come out is pretty ignorant.
Dear Cryptic,
If you are reading this I would highly suggest you start anew with this STO stuff. Talk to Orci and Abrams so you can do a proper Trek multi-player that uses the same ships, races and storylines as the upcoming movie; that way you can TIE-IN with the movie and you both can aid each other’s success.
Your current TNG-style campaign is crap- it’s soo 80’s and everybody has seen it before- why not use the new designs so its up to date? Right now it’s like doing a BATMAN and ROBIN videogame while the DARK KNIGHT is playing in theatres.
You got at least 6 months before the movie comes out- REBOOT AND START OVER. DO NOT HESITATE- DO IT NOW.
You will thank me for this suggestion.
NEMESIS SUCKED. Let me say that again, NEMESIS SUCKED. As a star trek movie, as a piece of film & movie making. No excuses or pass’s it failed on almost every level.
#25 – “For myself, when I refer to the “death” of Star Trek, I really referring to the schism created in the fandom after “Nemesis” and “Enterprise”. Surely, we can see the effects of that schism here on the board for this one topic alone.
{snip}
Other posters are correct when they say that Trek was never dead, but now we have a Trek that has a horribly fractured fanbase – one wherein no faction of which can ever see eye-to-eye. And, frankly, that’s bad for business.
{snip}
There used to be a terrific consensus among Trek fans, and now that is gone.”
I agree that the Trek fanbase is lacking in consensus, but I’ll argue that it goes back at least as far as TNG and Gene R.’s decision to set it so far away from Classic Trek.
But if you think that the schism in fandom was bad after “Nemesis” and “Enterprise”, you ain’t seen nothin’ yet. Wait ’til ST09 hits theaters! I predict it’ll split fandom in ways that will make all the rest look like a picnic in the park.
#64 – “Cryptic’s fiction wreaks of the overuse of the dross of Trek canon. No one cares about Donatra or anything to do with “Nemesis,” and Sela is a failed character of the same rank as Sybok and Lazarus. The ships are cool, but they shouldn’t figure in the MMORPG too much if it’s to succeed. Give me men and women exploring planets instead.”
I think this is indicative of potentially flawed thinking. I’m getting the feeling that the history isn’t what the game is about, but rather something created by the fans making the game for the fans they hope will play, building a link from the last we saw of 24th Century Trek to the world of the game 30 years later. Lots of games have material that establishes their settings. This is just Cyptic’s way of doing it for STO. I think, too, that by the time we get to the game’s timeframe of 2409, the minutiae of the history of 2380-85 will be relatively minor, just as little of TNG/DS9/VOY really depend on the events of the 2340s and ’50s.
Ergo, I wouldn’t worry that much about an excess of linkage to “Nemesis”. There’s still 25 years of history to go that they haven’t shared yet. ;)
So far I haven’t seen a good looking ship at all in STO. The customisation isn’t something I like, the ships in the animation just look far too Star Wars. Pointless colours and bits sticking out with no form or function. The idea on the old Trek ships is that everything you could point at on the hull of the ship had some purpose, it did something, and it looked good doing it. No matter what half the junk on these ships do (and I doubt it’s very much) they won’t look good doing it.
I’m being less and less impressed every time I see a new ship here. While the storyline interests me greatly, when I’m playing the first and foremost thing I’ll be interested in is the visuals, because if I want an intriguing storyline I can just read a book.
NOTE TO STAR TREK ONLINE:
Take some good advice and throw this game away, go talk to J.J., and start all over again. So far, it looks like you’ve done just about everything as wrong as you possibly could.
Note to #89…is your game better?
NOTE TO #89:
Take some good advice and throw your post away. Go talk to someone intelligent and start all over again. So far, it looks like you’ve done just about everything as wrong as you possibly could.
NOTE TO CRYPTIC:
This particular forum is riddled with TOS diehards and rebootistas, so pay no attention to the bashers in this thread. Those of us who just like Star Trek, as long as its flavored right and transmits the Roddenberry Dream, are looking forward to your game with, if not my sincere optimism, then at least with hope and good wishes.
Those ships are ugly.
Star Trek ships tend to be ugly anymore – the original Enterprise was cool, the refit looked good, but as time went by the designs got more out of control while still trying to maintain the general structure (saucer+warp engines) of the original but without its balance & proportion. I just don’t think that basic structure works with every design. In fact, most of the time it just looks clunky and ugly. (and it doesn’t even make any sense anymore…my suspension of disbelief was killed along time ago with regard to treknology)
#91.- Only TNG diehards (and there aren’t too many of you which is why NEMESIS and Ent flopped) will buy the game as it is presented. TNG is dead and gone for the masses.
Cryptic’s sales for STO has a much better chance to be a hit if they switch campaigns to the new movie. That’s elementary business sense.
Anyway, they don’t have to modify too much of the work they already have done- just use the same game engine and just change the campaigns, factions, ship design, etc.
Is this canon or nikon?
#93: Terming me a “TNG diehard” is a deeply amusing concept that I’ll attribute to your not knowing me very well.
The first point is that it’s a lot harder than you seem to think to radically change a game’s “vision” like that this far into development. Basically, you’re talking about stripping the entire game back down to the engine and rebuilding from there. It would blow most or all of the work by most of the dev team to tiny bits. Even if it wouldn’t come as a devastating blow to morale, it’s not economically feasible without a very, very good reason.
For my second point, what exactly are you smoking? Star Trek: Legacy sold briskly, despite being a mediocre game at best, and it got great buzz in the gaming press. STO, thus far, is garnering the same–and coming from a real studio like Cryptic isn’t hurting it any. Star Trek: Bridge Commander has a vibrant community that thrives on new game mods to this day. The rest of the post-TOS verse is going on quite well in books and comic books, thank you very much, and, quite frankly, more people of the current generation have been exposed to (and liked) TNG, its movies, and its sequels than to TOS. While they don’t know the first thing about “canon” or whatever, the predominant interest has been and continues to be in the latter incarnation of Star Trek. The new movie will no doubt bolster interest in TOS along with everything else, but by no means do I see this killing a prevalent interest in things that aren’t TOS.
Thus, not only is the 24th Century universe far from dead, but Paramount and its licensees would be outright insane to take your advice at this time.
Third point: gamers tend not to care what universe or setting your game takes as long as it’s a well-built game. If STO is a good MMO that, it can be expected to do very well, regardless of which century it’s set in. If it’s a flawed game, then no amount of clever marketing tricks will save it from the junk heap. The license is largely a bonus–and, hopefully, Star Trek’s unique vision, in whatever century, will serve as an excuse for Cryptic to break away from the WoW formula of MMO’s, which is what mainstream gaming largely cares about.
If you have some evidence to the contrary, I’d love to hear it.
Well, it’s YAT (Yet Another Timeline). I for one watch the movies/series, read the novels/comics and play the games. So it kind of sucks that I have to deal with three different universes now. Since Star Trek often relies on past events, you have to know those, to get the full picture. What’s so damn hard to bring everything into alignment. Star Wars can do it, why can’t Trek ?
The ships remind me of the “shitting dog” design Perpetual made for this game.
So there are three different post-Nemesis continuities kicking about the place. So what?
Most franchises have contradictions in their licenced ranges and Trek has never been an exception on that count!
Just enjoy the three different versions and chill out about it. The last thing we want is for a future Star Trek novel to be limited by the events of a freaking computer game!!!! And we know the TNG universe survives post-Nemesis, so people should relax.
Personally, now the TNG universe is no longer ‘Prime’, I intend to ignore it completely in favour of neo-Trek and TOS, but that’s just my preference. Within sensible guidelines, writers should just write, rather than get handcuffed!
The TNG universe can do what it wants now. For the first time ever it has freedom from any other aspects of the various series. It should take advantage if that!
God, the art is hideous.
I can see where the comic book story is going to be set now thanks to the latest STO update – B4 gets his full functions working by the Soong Foundation, and he joins Starfleet, probably on the Enterprise with Picard, in time to face off with Sela, Nero, and their allies. Sela would be the type to plan a massive stroke against the Federation’s past – she always liked big plans like the Reunification plot – and she also has a bone to pick with Spock. Thwarted in the current timestream by B4 and Picard, Nero goes into the past at Sela’s orders (or on his own after Sela is killed), and Spock follows to stop him. And so the movie begins.
Or some similar plot.
bloody awful horrible “cartoony” graphics
they have a long long way togo
The NX-91001 looks like it should have the words “USS SERIOUS BUSINESS” painted on it. and I don’t mean that in a positive way.
And what is it with Crytpic taking the plot of the recent novels, dropping half of it and making up their own stuff to fill in what they dropped?
#101
That’s nothing new. Perfect example – The DS9 Millenium novels are cannabilized for the plot of Simon & Schuster’s ‘The Fallen’ video game. They use elements of the story but essentially chuck the plot. Star Trek video games have never really been beholden to ‘canon’, for the most part. Much like the novels tend to ignore one another.
#102: In fairness, though, these “tendencies” may well be a reflection of Paramount approvals’ own “divide and conquer” attitude toward licensed material. When I was writing books for the Last Unicorn Games line of Trek RPG material, were were explicitly _forbidden_ from referencing _other_ (non-LUG) licensed material (let alone, obviously, fan material). If there was an element in an authorized Star Trek novel or comic book or computer game we liked, we weren’t allowed to use it and would have gotten in trouble had we tried. It’s frustrating, because then you get the fan-mail complaining about how you “ignored” their favorire this-or-that, but we weren’t ignoring anything, not really … we were just mandated to come up with alternate, contradictory material, and it was my impression, at least, that this was standard policy (years have passed, though, so it may no longer be – dunno).
Of course, I for one slipped in some references anyway, whenever I thought I could sneak it past the unpredictably-sharp eyes of the approvals folk ;)
(and to clarify, I mean the tendencies of the novels to ignore one another, not any tendencies relating to videogame cannibalism) :)
4 Alex Rosenzweig: I agree 100%!
81– — This game CAN’T be considered canon right?
Will anyone remember what this game was about after the movie comes out?
The ships at mmozone look too cluttered and cartoony. I’ll call this one the NX-Clusterf***
The uniforms are just unimaginative.
And the insignia looks… Well thanks to this game the new movie looks awesome ’cause the folks making the movie actually tried to make “real” Star Trek.
#103: The LUG ST RPG was running in the early-to-mid nineties, right? Was Richard Arnold involved in any of that?
103. S. John Ross –
“#102: In fairness, though, these “tendencies” may well be a reflection of Paramount approvals’ own “divide and conquer” attitude toward licensed material.”
Need I also point out that Paramount TV and Paramount Pictures are now two totally separate entities and the game may be tied solely to Trek TV and have no ties to any upcoming movies? Yes, I know, this is further complicated by the fact that TNG history has been played out in the past decade or so in movie form. I didn’t mean it would be easy to figure out without a Paramount legal expert!
106. MaybeThisMovieWontSuck –
“81– — This game CAN’T be considered canon right?”
Don’t see how that could possibly be. Can you imagine the arguments? “I *know* the Federation was saved in 2414 from the Klingons because *I* saved it!!”
NOTE TO #90 AND #91:
No. I don’t have my own game at all. But as a person with an artistic mind, just plain common sense, and free will, I can look at this game and say I don’t like it. You can say otherwise if you choose. Its just MOHP. You don’t have the right to counter my opinion just as I don’t have the right to counter yourse.
The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over expecting a different result. Berman didn’t destroy Star Trek he just ran it into the ground. Nothing so well crafted can stay bone-yarded for long. He an Braga created Star Trek:Enterprise (THE BERMAN-BRAGA HOUR) and took potential beyond imagination and wasted it. They took what could have been and turned it in to what will never be. Berman was not Roddenberry’s choice to take over the TREK franchise it was the studio’s choice. Berman did some good for Star Trek but his own ego took him down. The mistakes that were made became contagious… and were allowed to continue by Paramount and they must take part of the blame. Berman has promised a “thorns” and all book about Star Trek and his involvement in it, lets hope that its forthcoming.
111. Cafe 5 -
Thank you! Berman and Braga’s biggest error was in not innovating but staying stagnant as the world around them changed. And further, their inexplicable decision to backtrack, create ENT and tromp through territory already covered in TOS while only paying attention to that history in the most nonchalant way possible never made sense to me. They together penned half of the episodes in the first two seasons, rehashing and revisiting ideas covered a decade-and-a-half earlier (and better!) on TNG. They seemed to have no desire whatsoever to further the mythology or fill in the nagging blank spots — only to produce stand-alone one-hour episodes with more of the same. I found that inexcusable. It was no wonder fans shrugged and walked away en masse. The very creative and respectful Manny Coto and company came and did amazing things to rescue the show from its own shortsightedness but unfortunately the network felt it was too-little-too-late.
Has anyone been sending their ideas and complaints to Cryptic?
#107: We were very late 90s, stumbling into Y2K (1998-2000, give or take a bit). Some of the creative team went on to the next incarnation under Decipher, as well (which lasted until 2003).
Sean, in 66. I kind of wondered if my timing was off with regard to Worf and the D War.
I think what is absolutely key for Cryptic, regardless of ship design or backstory, is the ability to grab marketshare from WoW. I have two characters in WoW, and my kids have 8, because hunters have pets, and my kids love animals. They just ran their annual “Wintervale” gift-giving schtick, and it works wonders.
My daughter (8) rode a reindeer around for three days, was transformed into a dwarf, and was followed by a baby polar-bear on her quests (non-violent, controlled by me). When she’s old enough, she wants her own Warcraft account. Marketing.
Cryptic must learn a lesson from Blizzard as to how to attract and keep players. Star Trek is so specific to a niche audience, and can get so serious about its own fiction that it forgets how much fun it can be. That may be where it ultimately lost its way.
Those really are some fugly ships!
#95 & #115: The points you guys make about MMORPG gaming are right on. The backstory to this game only matters to Star Trek fans and not to game fans. 99% of what you do in this game will not be affected by the backstory. Even if it’s the greatest Star Trek story ever told, it will fail miserably if it’s not a great game.
On a further note, I am a 35 year Star Trek fan. I was seriously into reading the novels in the great void of the 70’s and 80’s. I followed every series and every movie faithfully. I have a lot of the games (including the recent Legacy release and the 25th Anniversary CD that won’t run on my Vista laptop).
The entire franchise is littered with inconsistencies and repition. And yet, I still look forward to the new movie, the upcoming game and anything Trek related that I can get my hands on.
The people who truly killed Star Trek are the ones that turned their backs on it because it wasn’t exactly what they wanted or expected. I’m not saying that we should support mediocrity. But if we hadn’t stuck with Star Trek as we have, it would have never come this far. In the end, the fate of the franchise will be voted on with our wallets.
#107 – Richard left Paramount in October 1991, literally within days of Gene Roddenberry’s passing.
#115 – “Cryptic must learn a lesson from Blizzard as to how to attract and keep players. Star Trek is so specific to a niche audience, and can get so serious about its own fiction that it forgets how much fun it can be. That may be where it ultimately lost its way.”
To be fair, unless you’ve playtested the game, how do you know how much fun it will–or won’t–be?
Many games have broad storylines within which the players operate, and speaking for myself, I think that the fictional story carrying the Trekverse forward from the end of “Nemesis” to the setting and timeframe of the game is a very smart thing. I also would be very surprised if it would be necessary for players to know all that history in order to play the game. I’d take it as just an “extra” for fans who are interested.
This is amazing. They’ve taken the ugliest designs trek ever produced and actually made them worse. Whoever does their art should seriously explore other career options.
#117
I use a programme called dosbox for all the old star trek games, works a charm! :)
#117: “I’m not saying that we should support mediocrity [...] In the end, the fate of the franchise will be voted on with our wallets.”
True, but it will be determined by the writers, producers, directors (and game-makers, comic-book artists and more) who convince us to vote, or not to. It’s their job to make a franchise worthy of our time, money, and attention. As you say, we should not support mediocrity … fans who buy into Trek material blindly hurt the franchise more than they help it, because when mediocrity sells just as well as quality, quality (which inevitably takes more effort and resources to produce) stops making sense to the bean-counters.
People say this game has Ugly ship designs?! Have you SEEN the crap they’re feeding us come may? Compared to those ships, these ships are awesome.
118:
Alex:
The game may rock. But, it was a NY Times Business article awhile back that illuminated the MMORPG market.
Specifically, it pointed to WoW as having cornered the market. I play WoW, and I have a life. I don’t have time to play another MMORPG. Neither do the other 9 million people who play it. No other games have significant share. None.
Cryptic’s game may get a few thousand to try it. But judging by the convoluted plot they’ve concocted, populated by the utter minutiae of the Trek Universe, they may find it tough even to get Trekkers on board, let alone Joe Sixpack Who Plays World of Warcraft.
I will try it myself, and I hope it’s good.
#123 – I’m not seeing a particularly convoluted plot here. Actually, I’ve seen very little about the plot *of the game*. I’ve seen a small bit of the publicity aimed at hardcore fans, not the aspect of how it’ll get marketed to the broader audience.
What I’ve read and heard about the game itself still isn’t suggesting to me that anyone will need to know the 30 years of history preceding it to play it. But the serious Trek fans are already watching for this game and they are the ones who’ll appreciate the attention to detail.
As for WoW cornering the market, all that says is that STO has the same challenges that any other MMORPG has. {shrug}
124:
“But the serious Trek fans are already watching for this game and they are the ones who’ll appreciate the attention to detail.”
Detail? Then this is a game based on the tatters of “Nemesis,” the only Trek film not to turn a profit. You’re right that the details will only be of concern to hardcore Trek fans. I am one, and I think the plot is silly. Is Donatra a Boss whom I will meet in battle? Will I visit Tomalak as he retires, or B4 at the Soong Institute? Why is B4 even in this? He is almost universally despised by Trek fans.
I know the backstory will have little to do with the gameplay ‘experience.’ I also understand that “2409″ gives Cryptic some leeway for creative license. But they are sifting through the flotsam of canon, and harvesting a most unlikely story. Simple is better.
62. sean -
“Each new show should have had a new creative team/show runner behind it. That’s why DS9 prospered and VOY floundered, because an entirely different creative team was working behind the scenes.”
But of course DS9’s ratings declined on the same curve as DS9, “Voyager’s” and “Enterprise’s.” The studio doesn’t view any of those shows as successful in the sense that a future for Trek would be built upon any of them, because they all shed viewers at a rapid rate from Week One onward.
#125 – ““But the serious Trek fans are already watching for this game and they are the ones who’ll appreciate the attention to detail.”
Detail? Then this is a game based on the tatters of “Nemesis,” the only Trek film not to turn a profit.”
I could be wrong, but everything I’ve read suggests to me that this isn’t even remotely true.
The only thing related to “Nemesis”, specifically, that I’ve seen is that the game is described as several decades after the events of that film.
The detail that we happen to be discussing is the story, provided for the fans, of how the folks involved with creating the game got from Point A to Point B. It doesn’t seem to say much about the game’s scenario itself, except perhaps that they’ve been pretty conservative in their engineering design progression. ;)
“You’re right that the details will only be of concern to hardcore Trek fans. I am one, and I think the plot is silly.”
Okay, tell me, then, what do you think the plot of the game is? (Not the historical backstory from 25 years before, mind you, the actual plot.)
“Is Donatra a Boss whom I will meet in battle? Will I visit Tomalak as he retires, or B4 at the Soong Institute? Why is B4 even in this? He is almost universally despised by Trek fans.”
Like I said, I could be way off-base here, but my sense of this is that you’re reading way too much into the presence of these characters in descriptions of situations taking place over 20 years before the game’s events even get started. I think that, as the history unfolds (remember, they’re only up to 2384, and the game’s setting is in 2409, so there’s a full quarter-century still to pass before we even get up to the game’s era), you’ll see things steadily moving away from the situations as we last saw them on film in the TNG era and more into the new realms being created by the game designers.
“I know the backstory will have little to do with the gameplay ‘experience.’ I also understand that “2409″ gives Cryptic some leeway for creative license. But they are sifting through the flotsam of canon, and harvesting a most unlikely story. Simple is better.”
Unlikely? I dunno. How do you define “unlikely”?
Alex:
It’s just bad fiction, and it’s purely my opinion.
Why not establish a Federation where the united Humans, Klingons and Romulans lead a combined fleet to Andromeda? But with a wormhole back and forth to Federation space? Period.
I am not a writer, but I can discern shit from shinola, and the plot description reads like the ingredients of a can of TAB.
I think the Cryptic writers, who have been mysteriously absent from this site, should engage us a bit more, perhaps in a more structured forum. We, as fans, will provide positive word-of-mouth to the gamers who have been busy getting to level 80 in World of Warcraft via the “Lich King” add-on. Give us a compelling plot…something more generalized…and maybe new players will come across.
#128 – “It’s just bad fiction, and it’s purely my opinion.”
Well, that’s fair enough. :) I don’t share the opinion, but I’m a firm believer in de gustibus non disputandum”. :)
“Why not establish a Federation where the united Humans, Klingons and Romulans lead a combined fleet to Andromeda? But with a wormhole back and forth to Federation space? Period.”
‘Cause that sounds like DS9 writ slightly larger? ;)
Also, I don’t know that such a thing couldn’t happen in the game’s setting, anyway. They may not start with it, but that’d be potentially viable to add in.
“I am not a writer, but I can discern shit from shinola, and the plot description reads like the ingredients of a can of TAB.”
Again, what plot description are you referring to? The “Path to 2409″ pretty clearly isn’t the game’s plot. It’s backstory, no more and no less.
See, you’d have me more intrigued if you were discussing the actual plot of the game and said plot’s plusses and minuses. ‘Course, if there *is* an overarching storyline, I’m not finding it on the ST Online site. So I’m going to withhold judgment on the game’s storyline ’til I actually know fully what it is.
“I think the Cryptic writers, who have been mysteriously absent from this site, should engage us a bit more, perhaps in a more structured forum.”
Why should they be expected to spend their time on *this* site. Look, I think Anthony’s done some remarkable stuff with this site, but the game has its own site, with its own forums, for folks specifically interested in the game to use. I’m not going to criticize the writers for not hanging out here. Now, admittedly, I don’t spend a lot of time over on that site’s forums, but do the creative staff interact with the fans *there*?
“We, as fans, will provide positive word-of-mouth to the gamers who have been busy getting to level 80 in World of Warcraft via the “Lich King” add-on. Give us a compelling plot…something more generalized…and maybe new players will come across.”
Sure. But, again, until we see the actual game plot, I don’t think we can fairly assess whether it’ll have broad appeal. Cryptic’s folks claim it will, but the proof will be in the pudding, and a bunch of backstory aimed squarely at the hardcore fans, but not intrinsic to gameplay, does not the pudding make.