Damon Lindelof Rewriting Alien Prequel (& Possible New Sci-fi Film) – Is Trek Team Taking On Too Many Projects? July 28, 2010
by Rosario T. Calabria , Filed under: ST09 Creative, Sci-Fi, Star Trek sequel (2012) , trackback
Looks like Damon Lindelof is going to leverage his Star Trek prequeling to another sci-fi franchise. Star Trek producer and Lost writer/executive producer Damon Lindelof has reportedly closed a deal with 20th Century Fox to do some rewrite work on Ridley Scott’s Alien prequel. Lindelof may also have nabbed a new original sci-fi project for the studio.
Lindelof to do Alien prequel + possible new sci-fi movie
As Star Trek fans are well aware, Damon Lindelof is currently in the process of writing the script for the Star Trek sequel with Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci (Damon is also credited as one of the five producers as well. And according to Deadline New York Lindelof has picked up some more work to "rewrite" the Alien prequel script, currently in development at 20th Century Fox, with Ridley Scott back as director. According to the report 20th Century is hoping the project will be the next that Scott directs.
The article also points out that the talks between the studio, Lindelof and Scott went so well that Lindelof may end up doing a solo sci-fi project for the studio:
In a development as vexing as a Lost plotline, studio insiders said that while Lindelof indeed met with Scott and the studio for that rewrite job, the exchange of ideas between them sparked a take that could well turn out to be a free-standing science fiction film. The studio will decide when Lindelof turns it in.
Lindelof is also credited as a co-writer (again with Kurtzman and Orci) on the Jon Favreau-directed Cowboys & Aliens which is currently in production and is slated for release on July 29, 2011.
Abrams/Orci/Kurtzman/Lindelof biting off too much?
Our friend and fellow nerd Jordan Hoffman of UGO has snapped. This news has pushed him over the edge. He is now very concerned that the ‘Star Trek Supreme Court’ are doing too many projects and they should just stop it all and focus on Trek. Here is his video rant:
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Mmm, could be.
YES! We want quality, not quantity!
more projects – more press – more tickets – more Trek
Is Jordan Hoffman actually Shatner without the rug and girdle, and then CGI’d to look younger?
Hmmmmmmm……………….
I think he is overreacting a bit.
But still, when Rick Berman et al were doing multiple shows and a movie. The quality of Trek went down. I think focusing on one thing at a time and then moving on sounds logical to me.
Then again, I am just a simple folk. Not making million of dollars.
They’re professionals. Of course they can work on several things at the same time! I hop between projects regularly!!
I would prefer to see Lindelof tackle original material rather than keep working on other people’s properties. That said, I realize that he’s basking in the LOST afterglow and is trying to cash in, which I can’t blame him for.
I don’t think this will affect Trek. He’s not the primary screenwriter(unfortunately) for the next film. His role is to help shape the script. The primary writing will still be done by Orci and Kurtzmann.
Harry Ballz – I wish!!
These guys may be taking on too many projects; they obviously don’t have time to shave in the morning. ;)
Strangely, I don’t think they’re overloading too badly.
This is their profession. They do this for a living. To them, it’s something like a busy day at work. After all, movies are still a business.
Though yes, I would like to see them primarily focusing on Trek.
“Alien” is two passable flicks (Cameron’s being the better of the two) that have been re-released dozens of times, and exploited. Better to let 1 and 2 get re-discovered and throw the others into the discount bin. I’m sick of the re-releases of all 4 in ever-fattening box-sets with more crap no-one watches. Star Trek has proven a far more important franchise in the last 25 years.
Ridley Scott is on his spiral down from Gladiator, so I am not surprised he’s seeking out help to write his two new “Alien” knock-offs. Maybe he’ll toss out a “Blade Runner” spin-off for good measure as well. In 3D/IMAX.
Too many projects? Quite possibly!
The point he makes when he says they “should be reading about Trek, learning about Trek etc”. This is hmmmm wrong. They erased everything from what we know as Trek. Sorry Anthony but this guy brings this up. The TV series that are out on DVD have no direct tie into current Trek. So why should they be watching Trek when all those stories and things do not apply anymore. I thought the purpose was to start anew. So lets do something “new”. Nothing applies now except ANYTHING that was laid down in ENT. There is no plan to change the current Trek timeline back into the original one.
They have watered themselves too thin and it will show. Hawaii 5-0.. haha Please.
Oh yeah. Alien prequel… No thanks. Alien sequel. Sure.
Before I begin…. #11 – WHAT!?! Ridleys was/is the best, James Cameron is the most over rated director in hollywood imho
Hold on….
THEY need to calm down? Seems to me Hoffman needs to calm down.
Jesus Christ! Not only is it so, well just plain wrong to say/yell (delete applicable) that Star Trek is what “They’ll be remembered for” when they have already given the world LOST, Now dont get me wrong… I am a huge Trekker (well… I call myself a Niner but thats beside the point) but LOST is much more mainstream then Trek ever will be again, Im not doubting Trek wasnt huge in the 90’s because it was, it was everywhere, it was my childhood.
This the biggest over reaction ever, it would only be topped if Hoffman screamed THIS IS A DISASTER!
For the love of God man… The Supreme Court have already started on the project I mean if anything, surely working on Trek will take away from the Alien prequels rather then the other way round… everyone needs to take a deep breath and asses the situation fully. Many writers/producers/directors have taken multiple projects at the same time and it has been fine… stop worrying about it and just let the magic happen. The film isnt coming out till 2012 anyway
Deep breath in…. and relax
#13. And besides….2 things. It’s pretty clear from interviews, the movies itself, and other things that they already know trek pretty well. And 2, you can’t freeking expect these guys to devote there lives to the franchise. You can’t expect them to be pouring over trek night and day. The next trek movie is one script, and I don’t know how much they are getting paid for them, but I say that it’s one script. Can a writer survive off of only one script every 3 to 4 years……I could be wrong but I don’t think so.
i think im one of the few people actually looking foward to the Alien prequels…
in fact i was watching Alien 1 late the other night and the first half from when we get A L I E N slowly appearing with the eerie score, the wake up, the signal, the planetoid, derelict, space jockey, eggs in the massive cargo (basically everything up until they get Kane back on board) is so atmospheric and ‘alien’ I really want to see more of that side of the 1979 film explored (which I think Scott is planning to do, as well as exploring The Company and its interest in the alienand maybe the aliens origins itself)
Yeah I know theres a risk of demystifying the space jockey/derelict and the alien itself (if its origins are explored) but its worth a gamble imo
Lets face it the whole alien(s) stalking people on spaceships/colonies/prisons/arctic pyramids/small mid west US towns has been done to death – time for something new and more Sci Fi HR Giger atmospheric based than the bog standard alien slasher flicks….it’s the first half of Alien that really does it for me – not so much the rest where it basically turns into a slasher flick with an alien instead of Mike Myers
Also ironically enough the derided AvPs have set up rather well the beginnings of The Company and its interest in the alien (although I very much doubt theyd get referenced – but there prob wont be anything to say they didn’t happen – - same with how those films wernt referenced in ‘Predators’)
So true… im dissapointed.
as for reading everything about Trek, Memory Alpha etc i hope not – i really dont want a movie thats stepped in Trek lore so much so id need the website and the Star Trek Encylopidia with me as im watching the film (which i know wonth happen anyway)
i mean what…does this guy want a return to Berman era Trek or something?!
i can sort of understand concern alittle about the multiple projects but lest we forget these guys are professional writers – they do this for a living…im sure they can work on more than one project at a time – wernt they doing a few things at the time of ST09?…besides for all we know the Trek script is done and dusted…
anyway the Damon dude is hardly going to turn down working on a Ridley Scott Alien movie if hes a massive fan of that series…
I agree. All of them are doing WAY too much for every product they make to be successful. I’m all for keeping busy, but writing three scripts at the same time is ridiculous.
It’s kind of selfish to think these guys should only focus on Star Trek. If they put out a quality Star Trek movie, then who cares if they do 10 projects between now and then. Plus, I agree with another poster. I think Orci and Kurtzman do the heavy hitting writing. I get the impression the other guys add their thing, but the basis will come from Orci and Kurtzman.
I loved Alien the best. I always liked horror movies, such as Amityville, Halloween, Friday the 13th, etc, but the one thing that always drove me nuts is, just leave. If a fly told me to get out of a house, I can tell you I am not going to stick around to ask questions. But in space, there is no where to go. Alien had a very creepy atmosphere. Scott did a great job with this movie, and Jerry Goldsmith’s music added another layer of creepiness. Also, the hero was a woman, and not even the headlining star of the movie. Definetly a creative, new way to approach the story. Aliens was great too, but that was more an action, sci-fi movie as opposed to horror sci-fi. Alien 3 was a huge disappointment. As soon as the movie started, Newt and Hicks were dead. I was like, what’s the point now. Alien Resurrection was marginally better, but not much.
Star Trek is obviously their biggest deal at the moment and has and will come first – The other projects they seem to be involved with seem to require less time than Star Trek does – and yeah lets not forget that these are professional writers, they developed the first movie whilst having other projects on the go…
I do disagree with 15 though, before Star Trek (2009), Trek was never mainstream. Popular sure but not mainstream – mainstream is Star Wars, Transformers and those types of movies, Star Trek 2009 if anything was the start of Star Trek becoming mainstream entertainment.
WHY do people keep making Alien movies? Who sees them?
These dudes are talented. it is an embarassment of riches.
We’re lucky we got these guys on trek.
#24 We could do better! Meyer is a better choice.
This guy is right. Why not dedicated your full time to doing a good job rather than to (as the sequel Trek Writers said) “squeeze it in between lunch breaks”.
Fudge.
Last time I checked the “Supreme Court” was made up of more than one person, so I think they’re okay.
On the the other hand, it would be nice they adopted the “Christopher Nolan-method” of doing only one project at a time. If they did; they would probably be done with the STXII script by now.
If they purge the Space Jockeys in this re-write I am going to APESHIT!!!
I don’t want to see another straightup ALIEN movie or anything even REMOTELY Resembling those AvP pieces of shit!
The whole reason for doing the prequels should be to make them about the Space Jockey race and how the ALIEN warriors we seen the 1979 and onward came to be.
Anything less and I will STAY HOME and won’t waste a penny on it!
Yeah, I’m kind of afraid the next Star Trek movie will get the old “kick the can down the road” treatment. It’s easy to postpone something once you have a legitimate reason (such as being busy), and once something is postponed enough, you have a conveniently teleological reason to do something else. Kind of like a vicious circle.
That’s how movies don’t get made (also see: “Development hell.”)
But, honestly, there is no hint that Star Trek 2 will not be made, and let’s all stay positive, folks. We’re fans of Trek. If there’s anything we know how to be, it’s positive and hopeful, dammit!
Trek still is in good hands and things still look as green as your average dollar bill. Go, Trek, go!
Taking on too many projects- well it tells me they still haven’t figured out the script for the next Star Trek too well yet. To me it seems like they’ve been delaying this script till the cows come home. If they had a good idea of what to do, I think they would give their undivided attention on it.
writers can generally work on more then one project at a time and I half expect that a Scrip or a General Scrip will be done by December to January. Also the suprime Court of the New Universe is madeb up of several people and they will give us Quality.
They have to focus on Trek I feel like they don’t care
This is the problem with bigger names; their attention wonders. Previous producers/cast were very trek focused.
As long as they’re punching out product, punching out more won’t make much difference, I figure.
They are taking as much as they can while they are HOT. Trouble is just as was said. If they spread too thin, the result will be all is no good. And to the deficit of Star Trek.
Oh, shit.
And here I thought the “Alien” prequel might turn out to be awesome.
I do think that at a certain point they are doing too much. Orci & Kurtzman are executive producing three television shows now, and a significant number of films.
Not necessarily the bastion of completely accurate info, but this is the list of “In Development” projects for Alex Kurtzman:
1. 2012: The War for Souls (details only on IMDbPro)
2. Racing Dreams (details only on IMDbPro)
3. Untitled View-Master Project (details only on IMDbPro)
4. Untitled Mathew Cullen/Dreamworks Project (details only on IMDbPro)
5. Xombie (details only on IMDbPro)
6. Now You See Me (details only on IMDbPro)
7. Deep Sea Cowboys (details only on IMDbPro)
8. Atlantis Rising (details only on IMDbPro)
9. The 28th Amendment (details only on IMDbPro)
10. The Defenders (details only on IMDbPro)
11. The Big One: An Island, an Obsession and the Furious Pursuit of a Great Fish (details only on IMDbPro)
12. Matt Helm (details only on IMDbPro)
13. Red Cell (details only on IMDbPro)
14. Nightlife (details only on IMDbPro)
If I was dreaming out loud I would say:
Yeah he’s right. Bob, why don’t you guys just take it easy and have a look at the plot that I’ve puzzled together?
I already have the entire structure outlined. I believe it’s an awesome story. Then you guys can fix what you think needs fixing and flesh it out in your own wonderful ways. It doesn’t have Khan. It’s not something we’ve seen before in Star Trek. It’s action packed, funny, deals with an issue that is both current and timeless without being a hamfisted preachfest, and settles at least some of the controversial issues raised during the first movie, all while both giving the existing characters enough to do, and introducing some new characters (AND reintroducing a few old ones).
Seriously start shooting star trek sequel already.
I am the one who is seeing Alien – movies ;)
Seriously. In my opinion the STAR TREK movie is also the most important movie they are working on, of course. But they seem to have too much time. If they would just and only work on STAR TREK, it would be in cinemas next year. And that is not the plan of Paramount. Paramount wants to let us being very hungry for the next movie. Well, Paramount, you just do not know HOW hungry we are still now ;) If they are working on other project in their leisure time, why not? ;))
Matthias
OKAY. SO:
1. Lots of projects equals lots of money. That is NOT to say that it’s okay to divide your attention so much that nothing winds up being any good. But if you had the talent, skill, and balls to work on so many of your dream projects AND get paid for it, you would.
2. You also have to consider that many projects fall by the way-side, get caught up in red tape, get stuck in development hell, etc. Sometimes, schedules are changed or decisions are delayed on certain projects. Which means they need to be working on something else.
3. These guys CANNOT just spend every waking moment on Star Trek. They gave us a great movie, let them work on other passions before they plunge back into Trek. Even Picard said he would rather die than live a life bereft of passion. Well, I would rather Star Trek die than see Star Trek that’s bereft of passion. I’ve already seen VOY and NEM, after all.
4. I spend an inordinate amount of time on Memory Alpha. I would love to create/write for a Trek television series. But honestly, finding obscure chunks of Trek lore on Memory Alpha would not be good. The trick, I would think, would be to throw in homages to things you REMEMBER. Because chances are, other fans will catch it, too.
5. PAUL GIAMATTI as an all-new DEVIOUSLY perfect Harry Mudd! WHO IS WITH ME!?
Lindeloff didn’t have screenwriting credit on Star Trek 2009. Let him earn a living and be quiet.
As for “reading memory alpha” — Isn’t that already Bob Orci’s head?, plus they guy already said “I’m gonna watch TOS front to back”– much better than reading about it.
I think we’re good.
#34 – “This is the problem with bigger names; their attention wonders. Previous producers/cast were very trek focused.”
That’s because they generally didn’t have much else going for them.
#44 – “That’s because they generally didn’t have much else going for them.”
THANK YOU!!!
It kills me that so many Trek fans are actually WORRIED that the people currently involved in Star Trek have OTHER INTERESTS. I mean, sure, it sorta sucks that Whedon is working on Avengers now because that really puts a fork in all those fanboy hopes I had for more Serenity, but in the long run, he might become a really popular writer/director because of it, and be able to do whatever he wants. This is my thinking with all involved in TREK. Other projects get the attention of MAINSTREAM MEDIA and the, forgive the elitism, HOI POLLOI!!! Perhaps this is why Star Trek, while existing in some form of influence on pop culture, remained outside of the REALM OF MAINSTREAM MEDIA. They had nothing to relate it back to. They couldn’t have the actors on their talk shows without bringing up STAR TREK because THEY REALLY WEREN’T DOING ANYTHING BUT LOBBYING FOR MORE TREK SCREEN TIME IN THE NEXT MOVIE OR APPEARING IN FREAKIN’ LOCAL COMMERICALS WHILE HOPING THAT THERE WAS ANOTHER TREK COMING!
Not that it was completely their fault. But let us not shove these newbies into the shoes of the original actors/creators. Let them breathe. Let them become popular and beloved on their own terms. It only means more mainstream attention for Star Trek in the future.
Wasn’t Damon working on the end of Lost when they did Trek 2009? Trek 2009 didn’t seem to suffer did it?
#46. He was only a producer on that film, now he’s a co-writer. Significantly different job duties, although I do believe he assisted in the early stages of the story.
Re #38, “2012: The War for Souls”: The author of the book version, Whitley Strieber, believes (as of Jan 1, 2010) that the Orci & Kurtman effort has been “ditched”. So that narrows their list down to 13 other projects, not 14.
Frankly, the last movie seemed like they spend no more than a day on the story, while JJ did the most work making it a spectacle. So I don’t expect much for the second.
Has everyone seen Inception? Let’s have Christopher Nolan take over
Don’t forget when Ds9 and Voyager where runinning side by side, the two shows had diff showrunners andRick Bermanb was the overseer.
Ira Behr did DS9 and Jeri Taylor then brannon Braga did Voyager.
With the quality of Transformers 2 still a bad memory I do fear that they could be hindered in the next movie but I am hoping for a stronger plot next time.
GIven that although Star Trek XI was a great film, I have to admit the script was weak. A lot of films I love do have weak scripts but for Star Trek I do like something more, especialy when the script relies heavily on coincidences. This said its still great fun.
I was hoping that with Star Trek XII they would be able to focus more on the script so that this time the story will be a lot stronger. Something tells me they will just tag in Khan and re write a past movie at the rate they are going.
I hope I am wrong but I guess I have become too cynical these days.
I do want something memorable but a Khan redo will drive more Trek fans away.
@AJ
What are you talking about? Ever seen BODY OF LIES? Granted ROBIN HOOD was not as good as it promised to be, but Scotts films have been great nevertheless.
I’m not too fussed about the amount of projects they have on their plate, they’re professionals and would have already set out the schedule for Star Trek. The story has been agrred upon and the scrift doesn’t need to be finished until December. Filming begins in a year and the film doesn’t come out for another two years. Star Trek (2012) is a blockbuster movie so rest assured they will be giving it all the attention it deserves! And I think the fact that we having people in charge of Star Trek that are so sought after in Hollywood can only be a good thing!!
Don’t worry. Not much different than last time. The year we produced Trek, we also did Eagle Eye, The Proposal, Fringe, and TF2, with a writer’s strike on top of it all.
Bob, Thank for the clarification :-)
every week Orci and Kurtzman or Lindelof have some new project anncounced
meanwhile the trek movie seems to be crawling along.
and they didnt even seem to have any plans laid out for a sequel or future of the series even though going back to TOS characters was what they had to do
55 – not to mention reading and responding to all the TM posts (a job in itself!)
Trek fans want a “Gene Roddenberry” caretaker of the franchise. Someone who is the guardian. Right now who that person is isn’t quite apparent. Is it Abrams? Is it Orci or Kurtzman or Lindelof?
TNG/DS9/VGR/ENT at least had Rick Berman – whatever you thought of him or not – as “The One Entrusted With The Franchise”. I don’t know if there is a clear guardian of Trek at the moment.
Until that is cleared up I think some Trek fans will stress that its not being given the appropriate care.
Just a thought..
Key elements of a great ST show
Will be very hard to compete with the high-quality writing of Alien and Aliens.
“55. boborci – July 29, 2010
Don’t worry. Not much different than last time. The year we produced Trek, we also did Eagle Eye, The Proposal, Fringe, and TF2, with a writer’s strike on top of it all.”
And it showed.
Bob – I don’t suppose you could give an update on how far along the script is ? If the main adversary has been chosen?
Also – which films are you most looking forward to next year and maybe 2012 (not including the ones you are working on)
Key elements of a great ST show/movie:
- Immersive, closeup shots of ship, straight phasers, torpedoes.
- Kirk (instinct) + Spock (cold logic) + McCoy (heart) 3 way chemistry.
- Portrayal of federation values (per Gene TOS & Burman TNG)
A big danger for the franchise is if new Spock becomes too emotional (with Uhura for example, or too evil). And I think the writers will make that mistake because they will feel pressure to sex-it-up.
As long as they call H.R.Giger to do the ALIEN and the Space Jockey design, it is agreeable to transform the ALIEN quadrilogy into a quintology.
About Star Trek…gosh The Enterprise is a lady, not a “one night stand”, now they must assume the baby. :P
I have faith in a good movie being made
But I hope for a stronger plot next time as well.
@67 Faith is a dangerous thing.
The Big 3
- Ship
- Character chemistry
- Values
#22
I AGREE!!! If you actually read what I said, I said Trek isnt mainstream :p
In Hollyweird if work is offered take it, if not take a vacation. Greed is good.
15.
… but LOST is much more mainstream then Trek ever will be again, Im not doubting Trek wasn’t huge in the 90’s because it was, it was everywhere, it was my childhood.
The box office gross of the STAR TREK movies certainly were not in the same league as STAR WARS or 007, but do you really believe people would actually pay to see LOST? I doubt it. Not significantly. Mainstream or not, even in it’s most unpopular decades, STAR TREK is a brand that is far more recognizable around the world than LOST.
There is nothing wrong with the “Supreme Court” being involved in various projects since, as previously noted, Berman and Company were doing ONLY Star Trek and reaping criticism for not being fresh anymore.
Sometimes I work on different projects at the same time (or read several different books, etc.) because I need some sort of break from one project to clear my mind or get some fresh ideas or simply a different perspective. Thus, I think the various projects can help the writers avoid the sameness everyone complained about with the previous Treks.
71 – i think the TOS movies were comparable to the 007 movies at the time?
Just my $0.02, but I think there’s an awful lot of tinfoil in the radar right now – that is, lots of other things clouding what should be a slam-dunk sequel to ST09.
Combine the multitude of other projects with the fact that Quinto et al have said that ST10 won’t start filming until next summer at best, and that June ‘12 release date is looking sketchier and sketchier to me.
At least theirs some clarifications on the subject.
Any news on who’s going to direct it ? lol
Isn’t it simply natural for creative people to have lots of projects going on all the time? This is what keeps the mind going, keeps the brain working. We aren’t really privy to inside information, anyway. And the Court is not about to spill the beans on what they are up to, since they know we all want to be surprised. Perhaps they’re already into a second or third draft of ST, who knows? The point is: we know nothing about the progress of the script, so this is all conjecture. These guys are big boys and they must get paid well enough, so I’m sure they have everything under control. IMO, of course…
Hollywood could be employing much more talent would they not give every project only to a small group of people.
..my only problem with it is that with so many other irons in the fire, it keeps them from working solely on Trek, which, in turn keeps me 3 years from the next movie. Yes, my opinion is totally self serving.
The more I watch this video, the funnier it becomes and the angrier I get.
Surely he’s joking… he must be joking right? RIGHT?
You know, the more I come here and read the cry-baby, immature, self-important, elitist, sniveling “comments” from people who are supposed to be Star Trek fans, the more I start to lose faith in fandom in general. Not only are people totally rude jackasses, but they pride themselves on it.
The, I remember the rule of the “vocal minority” and realize that most Star Trek fans don’t behave like this.
If the new creative team REALLY IS listening to “fan input” on this board, I have great faith that they know the difference between the 2% of fans who come from Gamma Malcontent III and the 98% of the rest of us who just want some great entertainment.
I think the only concern with so many projects is if they are churning stuff too algorithmically. If they aren’t careful they can end up with poor product.
That said, I would assume they have a growing staff and when they take on more activity there are little Damon’s, Alex’s, and Bob’s in their family who grow to fill the gap.
I think if he’s rewriting an Alien prequel by Ridley Scott, it all he’s gotta do is rewatch Alien so he remembers what he’s comparing to, then watch A Good Year and Robin Hood to figure out what beyond Russell Crowe made those films fail, and rewatch Avatar to make sure they haven’t subconsciously gone to a familiar well for inspiration. Should be quick.
It wouldn’t be fandom, especially Trek fandom, if we didn’t have a subset of people like me whining about every little detail no matter how insignificant it may be. Of course, I don’t do it all the time. Just enough to renew my street cred.
It’s part of the deal. We take pride in being way too obsessive about trivial details as to every single little thing related to Trek or Trek people.
The “we” includes “me,” I am happy to admit. Nitpicky possessiveness is something of a syndrome — nay, an epidemic, among our kind.
It’s a funny disease to have. And probably incurable.
#42: “But if you had the talent, skill, and balls to work on so many of your dream projects AND get paid for it, you would.”
What evidence have you collected that all (or indeed, any) of these projects are “dream projects” for them?
About Damon on Alien-Prequel: I think it will not my daddy’s Alien….
As long as Ridley Scott is helming the movie quality is saved for now. …
About too many projects for Bob and Company: I don’t see any problem for Trek. Writers have to write and producers have to produce. It’s called work.
Bob has been quiet lately. Too quiet. Though it seems he is here, listening, reading our comments. Wonder what’s going on over there.
He did reply upthread, though.
62. Good one!
Bob, you just keep doing what you are doing and we’ll be right behind you supporting you all the way! As for your critics, “don’t let these bastards grind you down”!
I wish people would stop referring to them as “The Supreme Court”… give me a break. They churn out one entertaining, summer movie who’s best attribute is that it doesn’t suck, with core concepts, story and characters that were already created and established by others for over 40 years and suddenly now they are the end all be all of creativity.
The hard part is imagining the idea and creating the world in the first place… not just taking an existing thing and “doing our spin on it”.
Stop letting fan boys take do their treatment of existing properties… funnel all that obvious talent and creativity into ORIGINAL CONCEPTS and NEW IDEAS for audiences to love and expand over the next 40 years.
It would be time better spent than debating on how to “re-invent” Khan or the Queen Alien.
89. You can blame me for Supreme Court. I thought I was a useful analogy in that no one person makes the decisions, previous courts have set precedents (canon) that must be learned and respected, and our tenure is finite. Someday, another court will rule on the fate of Trek.
Amazing all the ST fans who think/beleive that ST should be their sole focus of attention. Based on dollars alone that means Transformers, MI, Lost, maybe Cloverfield should all warrent more attention. Hey, grab the green while you can guys, this is a fan base that’s impossible to please, so I would not worry about the ranting of any individual. Most of us recognize this is a business, and you need to cash in while you can, because you won’t pul in these bucks living off your glory days while hosting low rated cable talk shows….
I’m pretty sure Bob and the guys know what their best interests are and aren’t exactly going to turn down a lucrative project just because a bunch of fanboys are worried about what they’re going to do with their time.
However, as fans, we have the right to gripe and worry and gripe some more, because I’m sure that’s in the Constitution somewhere. Isn’t it? It isn’t? Well, it should be.
#92: “It isn’t?”
It is, actually :) Though given the international nature of the site, it may not apply to everyone who posts here (check your local foundational documents, plz and thx).
90 – I think the analogy is a good one. Each situation is analogous to a Case. Does it conflict with past precendent (canon)? How does a new law fit with the “constitution” and past precedent (canon)?
Truth be told, we see a lot of different projects, but I for one think this is a healthy thing.
If the creative minds are not stretched by other projects, from which they may find ideas and thoughts creatively, then they become insular to Star Trek, and it will lack much of the imagination, intuition and creative energy it needs to thrive. It would become inward looking, insular, and become wrapped up in it’s own continuity; something that played a major role in almost destroying Star Trek, and making it inaccessible to those unfamiliar.
I don’t mean to pick on anyone personally, but have some of you possibly lost your sense of humor completely? For example, (and I know we’ve been through this before), the term “Supreme Court” is not meant to be taken literally, it is just a humorous way of referring to the entire team that has been given the Trek-ian reigns, rather than having to name the lot of them individually. It’s a time-saver. Refer to them as “The Gang” if that makes you feel better, it amounts to the same thing, and I can’t imagine they’d be offended.
IMO, It seems far too many people on these threads take their Star Trek so seriously that nothing can be joked about, made fun of… I sometimes feel like I’m in a roomful of Sheldons!
I will agree that some folks go overboard trying to offer “The Court” advice on how to write the next film, who to include in it, what to do, what not to do. This is just the ordinary desire to somehow connect with the writers, and keep Star Trek “their own.” I don’t think the writers will hold that against us.
But put yourself in their shoes for a few moments, and re-read some of these threads. I imagine sometimes they chuckle, sometimes they outright laugh, sometimes they do a double-take, and sometimes they want to throw their laptop into an oncoming bus. Ultimately, you can’t put yourself in their shoes because you have not been given the Great Task. (That Bob Orci has got some admirably thick skin, don’t ya think?)
So, let’s conclude this public service announcement by saying, “Let’s be kind to The Supreme Court Gang and show them some real Trek-ian courtesy, compassion and integrity, the kind which all living beings are deserving of.” Now, sit back and have a nice bowl of spicy Andorian worm skins…
90. Bob Orci
I did not not mean to speak for you in my post #95. I know this topic has come up before. The Supreme Court has my utmost respect and admiration.
Bob, I think we need to lock you, Alex and Damon into a hotel room together. And not be let out until the script for ST2 is completed!
86 Hat Rick – yep, that’s why I say: “He’s He-re.”
93 S John Ross- ah yes, right here… Page 1. The right to boldly go…
Gamma Malcontent III
that’s funny. Someone should create a tourism video.
And yes it is true that commenters in generaly are a tiny majority and I do think that within that minority, there are a lot of those who feel strongly and often negatively about things and want the world to know about it. But I do remind you all that everyone here is a fan, regardless of what planet they come from.
I’d be more worried about the STXII script if the writing team had nothing else to do. My career is freelance artist – creative fields require juggling projects – sometimes I have to work 100 hours a week to meet a deadline. I’m thrilled Star Trek wasn’t just a stepping stone for them. The fact the writing team is in demand and they are still working on more Star Trek is a good sign for Star Trek in my opinion.
I wish he’d just concentrate on “Lost-The Next Generation”. Takes place 80 odd years from now, and one of the Dharma stations is a holodeck.
In economics the term for this is “opportunity cost”.
An example from Wiki-
“An organization that invests $1 million in acquiring a new asset instead of spending that money on maintaining its existing asset portfolio incurs the increased risk of failure of its existing assets. The opportunity cost of the decision to acquire a new asset is the financial security that comes from the organization’s spending the money on maintaining its existing asset portfolio.”
There is of course some risk to commiting to other projects instead of our beloved Star Trek, but I hope as time draws nearer, more focus will be placed on the writing.
And like others have said, Bob and Alex are the primary writers so hopefully they will provide the script their undivided attention. They have put Star Trek back where it belongs, and it needs to stay there.
90. Hopefully that someday is a long way off. And get off the internet and start writing, Bob. ;-)
Boborci,
As a 45-year-old Trekker, and one who loved you movie, I guess I’m someone who gets a little snakebites about the idea of Trek losing all this wonderful, newfound momentum you guys have given to it. Over the years, Trek has had an odd confluence of bad timing and wavering studio support that have led to poorer films. As a fan, it just seems externally that things have stalled a bit, and that just edges up my angst level a bit, too.
In havng watched ST09 again last night, I’m just reminded of your masterful treatment of the franchise, how finely tuned and credible the dialog was written, all have made me excited for more, and hope nothing derails it. Still hate having to wait two more years!
Thanks,
David
P.s. sure hope to see Pike again… :) Greenwood is awesome…
Why do I think instead of
A L I E N
we’ll get
D E R I V A T I V E
?
>;>}
I don’t think it is realistic to expect the members of the Supreme Court to work ONLY on Star Trek, or anything else. They are going to do as much as they possibly can, while they can. Some of us may fault their results >;>} but I don’t fault them for striking while the iron is hot.
105 because that’s what you would do and u can’t imagine what Damon would do?
104. Noted. Thanks.
Just so long as Trek 2 doesn’t end up like Transformers 2 Bob! ;-)
ST09 – Great film! When Kirk’s dad dies, my wife looked at me with tears in her eyes and said “I can’t believe I’m crying in a f***ing star trek film!”
#95: “For example, (and I know we’ve been through this before), the term “Supreme Court” is not meant to be taken literally”
And it’s really a lot less ridiculous than the term “canon,” which we’re all pretty used to. It mixes the metaphor, which probably annoys some folks, but given how creepy the “canon” metaphor is to begin with, I think it needs a good mixing.
107 – ouch >;>}
Alien sequels, other than Aliens, haven’t turned out too well. ( I can’t get that 2nd Aliens vs Predators out of my head. ) I think that doing an Alien prequel would even have more potential for being derivative. Plus, I was trying to go for a cute visual joke. >;>} But maybe Damon can do something with it; if he can, more power to him.
If I were doing an Alien sequel, (which I am not, last I checked), I wouldn’t do a prequel, I would do a sequel that completely ignores Alien 3 and 4. (A grownup Newt played by Ali Larter, but she is already pretty much doing that role in Resident Evil).
But I don’t write screenplays for a living. I think most of the people who comment here are not screenwriters, but that does not stop us from voicing our opinions and comments, some of which may even be valid. >;>} You don’t have to be a chef to know if the soup tastes bad (or good).
But I do appreciate the opportunity to chat with you and everyone else here. It’s a chance to communicate my thoughts and feelings, and it’s a lot of fun.
Who is this guy? Someone get him properly medicated.
113 – >;>}
#112: “You don’t have to be a chef to know if the soup tastes bad (or good).”
This can never be overstated.
I’d like to see the next film continue right from where we left off. When Spock Prime delivers that classic Trek sermon – to boldly go where no man has gone before.
These guys are explorers, while the first movie was mostly action oriented, I hope the next one is more adventurous in that sense – they need to travel far. Trek was always about the voyage and the discovery, at least that’s how Gene Roddenberry saw it.
Some suggestions:
1- no Kahn
2- more Pike
3- new species or reintroduce ones like the Klingons
4- mellow down the Uhura/Spock relationship, it sickens many fans.
5- more suspenseful moments like that excellent scene when the Enterprise first arrives at Vulcan and they go red-alert.
6- More Starfleet scenes.
7- upgrades to the ship and the different technologies.
8- Kirk is more mature now after he becomes captain, its an enormous responsibility, and fans want to see that reflected in the story.
9- McCoy and Scotty need to be more authoritative like they were in TOS. briefly take over as acting captain & first officer, at some point.
10- more women :)
Those are just some of my solely-Trek ideas, as I’m sure the writers are thinking how to make this for “everyone”, which is precisely whats so darn difficult.
All the best,
^^ “… in your philosophy…” As corrected.
Does anyone think the parallel universe was a good or bad cheat to prevent fans from calling FOUL at the the canon changes?
I guess that although as much as I loved Star Trek XI I will never like it as the best ever Star Trek.
I look forward to next film though but I do believe more fans will walk away if you do Khan. It will be very lazy of you if you did Khan.
116
I would like to see a stronger plot.
Besides I also see some repurcussions of the silly plot point of promoting Kirk straight from Cadet to Captain. Other officers mst be jealous and Kirk needs to prove himself further.
Bob give us something to make that cadet to captain thing work.
True, cadet-to-captain is questionable indeed, and unprecedented in ST. The only way I could accept it is in the sense it was an emergency situation, and Pike felt the only competent officer for that role was Kirk, despite the fact he’s a cadet, so he promoted him.
Think of it this way: does Pike have the authority to do that? well yes he arguably does. So while it raised eyebrows, we can’t say it wasn’t legitimate, any captain has the right to promote anyone he sees fit.
So Kirk skipped ensign and lieutenant. The alternative was to see him go through those ranks first, which would have taken a lot of screen time and complicated the story somewhat. All the while we’d still be waiting for him to assume captaincy.
Remember Nero wanted to destroy the whole federation, every single planet, not just Earth. Spock was compromised, and Kirk got the job done, so that medal was deserved I felt.
107 – To be fair to Damon he didn’t choose the time period for the new Alien project he’s just been brought in for rewrites. Given that it’s Ridley Scott producing and possibly directing the new Alien film then I think it’s safe to assume that we will not be getting anything in the vein of AvP. In fact I do believe that Scott is on record as stating that the AvP continuity will be completely disregarded in the new film. Damon’s involvement actually gives me some hope that we will end up with a really great addition to the project and given how Alien 4 turned out I can see why they chose to do a prequel rather than a sequel.
hmmmm i also feel bob n alex n jj n the rest all are doing fine-more work for them just shows how good they are–and bob knows his trek better than many of us–besides which the new jjverse is different so they can go in new directions–i have complete faith they will do fine–also believe bobs luv of trek will make a superior quality movie-yes they are busy but thats a good thing-just proves how good they are-carry on bob orci-we luv ya guys n trust your luv of trek-u made us proud when u made our franchise fun n mainstream again-keep up the great work sir! My only wish is u make it good enuf so jj will want to direct again-make it so and boldly go bob!
Bob Orci is here?!
Bob, I’ve been an ST fan all my life, live in Jeddah Saudi Arabia, just wanted to extend my appreciation to the new team, its awesome we can actually connect with the writers this way, so glad our thoughts are being heard.
Thank you, ST09 was ‘epic’ by the way, I’ve literally watched it fifty times on blu ray, my favorite ST film definitely!
124
So you put it over Khan and First Contact?
I don’t think it is THE Bob Orci, Bob Orci writes his responses in small caps. I think this guy needs to be validated to stop the confusion.
Would the real Bob Orci please stand up?
110. riy
“When Kirk’s dad dies, my wife looked at me with tears in her eyes and said “I can’t believe I’m crying in a f***ing star trek film!”
My girlfriend had the same response, and did again, when she watched it with me at home. It’s a tremendously powerful opening for a movie of ANY kind! You can’t argue with the lump in your throat and the swelling around your eyeballs….
I have no problem with the great reviews this film gets. It gets Trek recognised.
But why do I feel hurt that the StarTrek I love is not gaining any respect as a result of the new movie.
Is this the price of mainstream?
#115:” #112: “You don’t have to be a chef to know if the soup tastes bad (or good).”
This can never be overstated.”
It’s also not at all an impressive way to gain traction for a personal opinion.
#128: “But why do I feel hurt that the StarTrek I love is not gaining any respect as a result of the new movie.”
It may not be, but that’s not what movies are for – Trek is not a social, political or religious movement or any kind of membership group.
129
Just sometimes I feel the mainstream think this new movie is the only good Trek.
116, some very interesting ideas, and I would say that you are in the mainstream among Trek fans for requesting more of a number of things. I particularly agree as to your Points 5, 6, 7, and 8.
I do think that they should make the movie even more epic in scale — showing more of the vastness of the universe and its dangers as well as its promise. The movie’s SFX should impress us on that score; the movie should be serious, not comic; the movie should have philosophical implications as well as classic tropes of science fiction; and there should be space battles involving hundreds of ships and hundreds of thousands of sentient beings.
I remember watching Babylon 5 with the sense that there were very strange things out there (e.g., the First Ones) that literally boggled the mind. I want to have the same feeling when I watch Trek — that there are strange and gigantic things in the universe that make any other offering in popular SF entertainment look positively puny by comparison. A threat that makes even the Borg or Species 8472 seem routine and banal.
It’s a very tall order for JJ, Bob, and the rest, but it’s something that I feel they are capable of fulfilling.
“There are more things in heaven and Earth than is dreamt of in you philosophy.” — William Shakespeare.
“A man’s reach should always exceed his grasp, or else what is heaven for?” — Robert Browning.
Boborci I loved the last Star Trek film how far are you on the progress of the sequel anyway I am getting impatient
109 & others: Transformers 2 was not THAT bad! For crying out loud. If not for some of the “comedy relief” it would’ve been very good indeed. For one thing, unlike the first movie, Transformers 2 actually HAD FREAKIN TRANSFORMERS! T2 also had a story that followed that of the original show. Cybertron/the Transformers are running out of resources(Energon), the Decepticons want to use an Earth resource(the Sun) to get more via some strange device(the Harvester) that will also destroy our world. The Autobots want to stop that because they feel that life should be protected. Throw in references to the original G1 movie(Prime’s death and the Matrix of Leadership), and you have a winner. My only complaint outside of the bad comedy relief was the death of Arcee. That didn’t need to happen.
Anyways, rewriting a script isn’t as bad as writing from scratch. I don’t think at all that they’re spreading themselves too thin. Also, as much as I’d like to see momentum on Star Trek: Something Something, they have PLENTY of time! It’s scheduled for 2012. They’re doing fine.
A note to the previously banned, changing email/name does not count, you are still banned
RE: Boborci
that is Bob Orci. He uses various computers, iphones, etc from various locations and sometimes he shows up as boborci, but when you see his name it is verified
112. Back at’cha. All in good fun. Keeps the senses sharp;)
124. Maj
Thank you! What’s the weather lime right now?
Correction : like
130.
It is the only good Trek. At least from what I have seen so far which isn’t too much.
137
Lime, Bob? Friday and already envisioning what you want to stick in your Corona?
captain neill
I suggest you are taking this “mainstream” thing too seriously, and the changes made in Trek09 too personally. The new film is not an assault on existing Star Trek, though some may try to portray it that way. The new film — yes, we can still refer to it as the new film — is the most explosive (and I don’t mean that in a purely visual way), exciting, adventurous Trek we’ve seen in quite some time, and it captured the attention of an audience that ranged beyond the fanbase. This is a GOOD THING! It does not detract from Star Trek of the past.
And if someone who never saw any Star Trek until the new film, and happens to think the new film was great — without any further knowledge of past Treks — well, so what? Really. It is not a slap in your face, or the faces of any of us who loved TOS, TNG, etc. It is what it is, matey. As #129 Dennis said above, “Trek is not a social, political or religious movement or any kind of membership group.” Star Trek is sheer entertainment, even if it may have moments of meaning and insight. Enjoy it now, for all it’s worth. For one day we’ll be sitting in a rocking chair in the old folks’ home saying, “Set a course for… second star to the right…”
I’m very much looking forward to the Alien prequel with Ridley Scott back in the director’s chair and hopefully his involvement will bring some credibility back to the franchise.
As for whether members of the Star Trek supreme court are taking on too many projects. That’s up to the individuals as to how much they want to take on career wise as it’s their perogative. I’m sure the financial compensation is worth it as they’ve all got bills to pay, mouths to feed at home and a certain lifestyle to maintain.
#139
Trek ‘09 the only good Trek? Hmmm… it must get to be a bit boring watching that one movie over and over again. You know, there are other good Trek movies out there. Really, there are. Quite a few good television episodes as well.
136 – >;>}
#39 You’ve written a story line for the sequel?
145. Hugh
“You’ve written a story line for the sequel?”
Who hasn’t???
#146: “Who hasn’t???”
I haven’t; I’m a game writer. I’ve written a tie-in game for it, instead :)
133 Capt. Of the US Andril.
My Transformers 2 concept was just a little joke. Granted I wasn’t the biggest fan but to be fair I wasn’t exactly the target audience either! Like many I grew up watching Transformer cartoons so I wanted to like transformers 2 I just didn’t. Having said that I’m pretty sure that if I was 10 years old I would have thought it was the greatest movie ever and that’s how it should be with that type of franchise.
My comment about hoping Star Trek 2 doesn’t turn out like Transformers 2 shouldn’t be taken seriously. I’m a massive fan of Bob, Damon and JJ and have a lot of faith in them delivering with whatever they come up with. I do hope that it’s not Khan though as whilst I’m sure they’d come up with a really original and enjoyable take on the character, I believe there are so many more unexplored possibilities for a movie. I also think if Bob and co go down that route that the critics will have a field day as it’s basically a no win situation. No matter how good the movie is it’s success or failure will attributed to the reliance of reusing treks most popular movie and iconic villain. Still what do I know? Bob & co are all tremendously talented guys and like a certain starfleet captain they probably don’t believe in the no win scenario….
#comment not concept
Damn iPad and it’s predictive typing!!
147. S. John
And I’m a musician, so I’ll be taking a crack at Star Trek: The Rock Opera.
#146 P. Technobabble
Yes thats true, many have posted their ideas here on the board. But unless I missread what Dmduncan said, he has more than just a suggestion, maybe even a treatment? That would be cool.
151. Hugh
I think you read Dm correctly, and I’d be willing to bet he’s got a solid idea in mind. When we consider the huge amount of fan material out there, it’s obvious Trekkies are a passionate, imaginative, creative bunch. Of course, we all know the bottom line: Star Trek belongs to Paramount/CBS lock-stock-and-barrel.
I’m sure I stand with a large group of people who envy Abrams, Orci, Kurztman and Lindelof (and everyone else involved) for being given the opportunity to produce and contribute to one of the greatest franchises in tv/film/entertainment history. Bob Orci has always said he was a Star Trek fan, so this has got to be a dream come true for him, as it would be for many of us.
At the same time, the rest of us have to be grateful to Paramount/CBS for their tolerance of fan-made Star Trek. If they wanted to play ordinary lawyer games, fan-made Trek would probably be prohibited. As long as we don’t make any money off the name Star Trek, it seems we are relatively free to create our own stories/films in the Star Trek universe — which, I believe, helps sustain the fan’s interest and fulfills the need to participate, which, in turn, works well for Paramount/CBS and the “official” product.
I hope Dmduncan decides to publish his story and make it available online for us fellow Trekkies to see. He’s certainly a fun read on these boards, and I’d be interested to see what’s on his Trekkie mind.
In fact, I’ve had this idea floating around for a while now… ;-i
125. Neill — yea personally, I do put it over first contact. To be honest the Trek ‘movies’ were never too outstanding before 09, they always targeted the fans and that was a good thing for a while. In my opinion the series are the real highlights, because they had so much more time to expand the universe, and establish the characters. They took advantage of that time with four wonderful shows. And I don’t include the fifth show Enterprise – in my book I don’t consider that canon – there were too many contradictions and wasn’t really a good show even for fans like me, lets be candid now. That being said, I have all 4 seasons on dvd and watched the whole thing anyway.
137. Bob — Nice to hear from you. Man its hot and humid here – summer time in SA – what were you expecting! lol
That loud noise that’s caused everyone to extend their gazes in meerkat-like unison, is just the sudden explosive deflation of one of those overinflated expectation balloons that I cautioned against filling with unfounded sighs of belief that in Hollywood more (time, writers, money, etc.) unequivocally equates to better.
Those that have been encouraged to gleefully skip along with their I-can-suffer-through-waiting-another-year-because-I-know-they-will-use-the-extra-time-to-make-it-that-much-better balloons, have had their precious floating orbs burst by the long harsh pin of reality and wail, not unexpectedly. Now they will (perhaps unfairly) have the current film endeavor bear the stench of the stagnant wind with which they filled those spheres. And they will come to name that foul stench, disappointment.
I don’t envy the marketing for the next film. This may mark the transition from Teflon coasting to an uphill climb. No matter how you try to paint it, the responses in these comments have transitioned to a dearth of “I know the next one is going to be that much better.” that have been replaced by the more reasonable sounding “I know the next one going to be just as good.”
However, if any marketing team can do it, I suppose it might more than likely be an award-winner which one hopes the current production has retained.
#154: Stagnant wind?
#155.
I think I wrote that purposely to get your attention.
If you check the dictionary you will find that “wind” has more than one meaning that could support that adjective:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wind
and I would expect, by now, that you’ve come to know how I love the double entendre.
#156: “If you check the dictionary you will find that “wind” has more than one meaning that could support that adjective”
No doubt, but that doesn’t make it any less awkward. That said, I did love the rant :)
#157.
As an artist, I have lived long enough to know that I should just accept the love and say something like “The circle is now complete.”…errr…wrong franchise…um…”All is, as it was before.”
But I can’t help myself: The awkwardness is the beauty of it. It reflects the awkwardness of the unwarranted conclusions being ranted on. And there’s the pun building on the stillness of something as insubstantial as “idle” words.
But as Carson would often say “If you have to explain it, then it’s not funny” and that may well be, but I still think (to paraphrase
Troy Kennedy-Martin) “It’s a mother beautiful phrase, baby! WOOF! WOOF! WOOF!”
We now return control of your starship console to you. Until, next time, when we again return to: THE OUTER LIMITS.
153
Fair enough. Yea I agree that Star Trek XI was a major tentpole movie with great excitement that made Trek relevant again. I liked it a lot.
However, I will say that I still think that First Contact is a better film.
boborci rocks.
bob–since i saw the clip where you said you were going to watch TOS “front to back”, I dusted my DVDs off in January and have been doing the same with my 8 year old son, (who’d already seen ST09)
When we got to ‘Journey to Babel’ he said “I thought Spock’s mom died.” I explained the situation to him and he was satisfied.
He also asked if we saw Kirk’s father (whom we saw in your film) in TOS, and I said “No”.
And knowing that Kirk (Chris Pine) didn’t know his father in ST09, my son said, ” I think Kirk should get to see his father in the next movie.”
Fascinating.
thank you boborci and all the supreme court for your wonderful film and efforts
I am a believer in sending positive vibes to people, even if it’s only through typing a few words on a computer, posted to a website. So: Regardless of what has been said, all the best to the powers that be in control of Trek’s destiny. Long may they shine and continue to bring Star Trek to life!
#161.
If my last post proves anything, I am more than familiar of the dangers of hanging “Always with the negative waves.” to quote Troy Kennedy-Martin.
But I don’t think it IS negative to point out that, while I understand that it is the primary focus of this site, I don’t believe that the film franchise ever usurped all the prior art of STAR TREK nor became the sole controller of its destiny. Even less so with the current now licensed film product and its never before needed partnerships (nuParamount, Spyglass and some silent partner so quiet I can’t even recall its name) to get the job done. I mean it’s not as if CBS handed the keys to these guys and turned out the lights. And hasn’t that pretty much been the drum they’ve been beating, i.e. that all other Trek still exists and IS relevant?
146: “Who hasn’t???”
Yeah, but mine is GOOD. Not only is it out of love, but it mimics Bob and Alex’s storytelling style, which I’ve learned a lot from by watching ST.09, and it’s conceived as a movie rather than as a novel, which is an important distinction.
I’ve been writing since I was 9 or 10 years old because it would drive me crazy to NOT write, so I do it for love, not money.
And that’s important too. I think Bob comes in here because he truly loves the franchise. He wants to get it done right. If it was just for money why would he bother with what fans say? Why would he endure the insults when he could have a margarita in his hand and a line in the water from the deck of some yacht? Well, he could do all of that at the same time, true, but why show up for target practice when you are the target unless he really cares, unless there is something important to be learned? There’s only so much money can buy. Love of what one does isn’t one of those things.
162. Disinvited
If I may chime in — it seems to me that almost since the day the new Trek film was announced, there was a certain gathering of fans who began making mountains out of molehills. From my perspective, I never saw, nor interpreted, any indication that the entire series of Star Trek product was being ignored or abandoned, or that the new film was to become THE principle Star Trek upon which all future Star Treks would rest. That may yet turn out to be the case, but that is yet to be seen. IMO, the new film has acknowledged Star Trek’s history at least as much as TNG-era Star Treks ever did. Those series occasionally made use of the “classic” characters (Spock, McCoy & Scotty appearing in TNG, Sulu appearing in VOY, Sisko, Bashir and Dax returning to the TOS-era, then Kirk, Chekov and Scotty appearing in GEN, and Spock Prime appeared in the new film). It seems to me that all of these appearances suggest, to some degree, an acknowledgment of the “prior art of Star Trek.”
Also, I don’t think there has ever been an intention for the film franchise to usurp that prior art. When TOS films were being made, and TNG was a just-growing series, the two were quite separate, and had nothing to do with each other. When TNG went to the big screen, there was a slight connection to DS9, I think, because the Worf character was appearing in both. But the films didn’t really have much to do with the running series. Also, we must remember that Paramount used to control the entire Star Trek ball of wax, until it sold off the tv division to CBS, giving CBS control over tv-related Star Trek. CBS surely didn’t hand the keys to anyone, but it seems they have certainly turned out the lights on Star Trek. We might ask how important Star Trek is to CBS. We know how important it is to Paramount.
Finally, negative criticism is a legitimate form of commentary, and certainly has its place — especially when it is presented without some of the adolescent nonsense that sometimes comes across these threads. We all easily agree when we agree on something, and we should easily agree to disagree when we don’t agree, and let it slide. I’ve said before, none of us are privy to what is going on behind the scenes (well, maybe someone is, I don’t know em), so all we do here is speculate about what the next film will be, what it won’t be, whether it will be good, better, best… and then bang each other over the heads about it. In reality, this site is just a fun place to hang out because I love Star Trek and I love hanging with others who love Star Trek. I’m guessing that’s why everyone else is here. It should always be about good vibes and fun, and never about anything else. IMO, of course.
163. dmduncan
“Love of what one does isn’t one of those things…” (that money can buy)
I agree with you there, my friend. The love inherent in the act of creation — no matter what it is — is beyond explanation, and a price tag.
I wish you all the best with your writing endeavors, and, while money isn’t everything, it sure comes in handy when paying the rent. May you have great success.
Speaking of Bob Orci, I recently saw the band Squeeze in concert and might’ve sworn it was Bob Orci onstage, wearing sunglasses and playing guitar. Of course, it was Chris Difford, but from a distance, the resemblance was uncanny.
#115, “#112: “You don’t have to be a chef to know if the soup tastes bad (or good).”
This can never be overstated.”
And I would also point out, not everyone has the same taste, nor should they be expected to. Then again, not everyone has taste of any kind.
But let’s not forget about The Emperor’s New Clothes parable. Some people, taste or no, simply go along with the prevailing popular opinion.
Do you think some Star Trek fans are scared of people loving the new movie over the Star Trek they grew up loving?
neill
again you seem to be overly concerned about what other people think. Plus the world of opinions is not a zero sum game. One does not have to stop liking what came before to like what is new.
Yes it is true that for many of the younger generation the new Star Trek film is their first exposure to Trek and therefore will likely be their preferred Trek, but that has been true for people who first started with TNG and event VOY and ENT…you always love your first love. that is just human nature.
And RE: Mainstream
Star Trek has been popular with the mainstream before, this is nothing new.
And certainly none of this is something to be ’scared’ of or ‘angry’ about etc.
Once again and hopefully for the last time….relax
167. neill
“Do you think some Star Trek fans are scared of people loving the new movie over the Star Trek they grew up loving?”
I gotta ask you: does that really matter? Why should it matter?
Let’s put it another way: if you really and truly, with all your heart and soul, loved Dr. Pepper, and every other person in the world loved Pepsi, would that stop you from loving your Dr. Pepper? It shouldn’t. Or would you become a zealot and try to convert everyone else to love Dr. Pepper?
Live and let live, brother.
I grew up loving the Beatles. My step-kids grew up loving rap. Now that is something to be scared about.
168
My comment was not in regards to me.
I was asking in general if they knew fans who were scared of what this means for Trek. I was asking out of curiousity.
I love the film, the only thing that could disappoint me is if they decide to redo Khan. Anything else is cool.
I Guess its weird, JJ Abrams gets Trek where the fans want it to be and all it does is get fans annoyed because all he had to do to get it there again was to make some changes that a lot of hard core fans were against.
Before the movie hit I was wanting to kill JJ Abrams for messing with my fav show then the movie hit and I loved it.
Then in regards to the writers after I saw the terrible movie Transformers 2 I seemed to have lost faith in them because it was so terrible. I am told that it is Michael Bay and not them who made those story points.
I guess my problem is that in this era of remakes, reimagings and reboots it has actually got me more cynical about the film industry.
I just think it means a lack of ideas in Hollywood.
It is prob this thinking that has me against a redo of Khan. Because I am a fan of Khan but it would be a lack of something original if they went that route. I want these guys to prove that there is still some originality left in Hollywood.
#166: “And I would also point out, not everyone has the same taste, nor should they be expected to. ”
This, too, can never be overstated.
“But let’s not forget about The Emperor’s New Clothes parable.”
This not only can’t be overstated, but around here, it deserves a parade.
(Or has it already got one?) :)
I wonder if Damon Lindelof is reading any of this, scratching his head, wondering, “Hey, doesn’t this thread have my name on it?”
If Lindelof does for the Alien prequel what Aliens did for the original franchise, he oughta win a medal. The whole thing really fell apart after that movie, IMO, and I’m surprised Sigourney Weaver returned for 3 and 4. They were very mediocre films, poorly received, apparently killing the franchise. I think what made the first two movies so good was getting to care about the Ripley character, while in the next two films there was nothing to care about. Since there won’t be a Ripley to kick around anymore, there’ll have to be someone new to care about. I love Ridley Scott’s directing style, and can’t wait to see how he’ll get back into the Alien realm. And I’m wondering in what way we’ll see the hand of Lindelof in the script, once it’s up on the big screen.
And when do we get to know what this other new film is about?
Geez, so much to keep track of… if these guys get any of the script pages mixed up, we’ll have McCoy finding an alien bursting out of some red shirt’s chest, while Kirk has a showdown with some cowboy at 20 paces, and Spock analyzes an old 8mm movie camera, and….
Alien movies best to worst:
Classic (*****)
Alien/Aliens
ok-ish (***)
Alien 3
AvP
pretty bad (**)
Alien Resurrection
AvP 2
#164. P Technobabble opined “Also, we must remember that Paramount used to control the entire Star Trek ball of wax, until it sold off the tv division to CBS, giving CBS control over tv-related Star Trek.”
I think you and I pretty much have the same perspective with regards to the film franchise. However, with regards to that which I have quoted you are most definitely confused. But who can blame you? The shell game Redstone performed is worthy of a sequel to THE STING.
It is to be hoped that I can make what he did clear with out too much oversimplification.
First he essentially renamed original Paramount that owned all things STAR TREK, CBS. Then for cost accounting, tax purposes and because he believed a rivalry over which division was the “real” Paramount would be good for business, he cleaved a good portion of CBS’ film division and named that Paramount. Now the very important part is that he very specifically did not transfer any right to STAR TREK from the now CBS to the now Paramount. That which is now called CBS owns STAR TREK lock, stock, and film barrel. That which is now known as Paramount is permitted to make STAR TREK by dint of a hefty license fee that it now has to pay CBS for permission to so do. Make no mistake; this Paramount only makes Trek with permission of CBS’ Moonves who has, at best, an adversarial relationship with them as he believes himself to be the true heir to the “true” Paramount film making helm.
Confused? This probably won’t help: CBS still has a motion picture making unit and is currently engaging in making films. The trouble for them is that because of the economy they’ve had to suffer huge revenue reductions across all their media enterprises because of the loss of advertising. This has pretty much restricted their film budgets to $50 million and below because they are unable to take the hit if a higher-budgeted production goes south owing to the complexities of those budgets. Even so, some observers speculate that all CBS’ Moonves needs is a couple of PARANORMAL ACTIVITY-like hits and he’ll make all that I’ve described here appear as simple as tiddlywinks as he rockets to the top.
#164 re:176.
And I thought I was out of the woods on that. Hah! Even I’m confused. I just recalled that while Redstone gave CBS the power to determine the fate of future film Trek, I’m pretty sure he transferred the all the CBS motion picture Trek library to the nuParamount film vault but had CBS keep all the merchandising rights to the transferred films.
#176: I consider everything you’ve said grounds for finally abolishing the ridiculous concept of “canon” once and for all, since there’s no way to know who the authority is.
Buh-bye, canon. You were stupid and creepy, and now you’re gone.
176
Unfortunately from what I know CBS has no rights to producing more Prime Universe Trek. All rights for new Trek is Paramount and Bad Robot.
From what I am told all CBS can do is continue exploiting what already exists in the prime universe, ie novel, comics and games.
Well this is what I heard.
#178, 179
All, I can surmise is:
nytimes.com/2009/04/26/movies/26itzk.html
”That year, the corporate behemoth Viacom, which owned “Star Trek,” was splitting itself in two, divorcing its CBS studio (which made the “Trek” shows) from its Paramount studio (which made the films). “Trek” was likely to go to CBS, where another television show might eventually be developed. Gail Berman, then the president of Paramount, convinced Leslie Moonves, the chief executive of CBS, to allow her one more chance at a “Trek” film; he gave her 18 months to get the cameras rolling or lose the property. (Under the arrangement CBS retained the “Star Trek” merchandising rights.)
It doesn’t look like anyone but CBS’ Moonves was/is calling the Trek shots.
I will say that in numerous interviews Moonves doesn’t appear to be any sort of fan of ST. In fact, I don’t think it would be too far off to say he darn near despises it. I suspect this is probably borne of a fear that arises from his inability to comprehend the phenomenon and thus control it.
According to the notification at the bottom of this very web page, “STAR TREK® and its various marks are trademarks of CBS Studios Inc.”
Under standard film licensing, the licensor retains all copyrights for original art and anything derivative of it, but anything newly created by the licensee, for example a new character, is copyrighted by the licensee and thus nominally under its control. But trying to market a character that appears in a STAR TREK movie without reference to the STAR TREK trademark is darn near impossible so we can consider the two business entities welded to the hip when it comes to financially exploiting said items for profit.
CBS is the ultimate owner of “Star Trek” as a brand. CBS also owns the entire Star Trek TV library and the rights to make any future TV series.
Paramount owns the film library and the rights to make feature films
Bad Robot technically owns nothing. Basically Paramount has subcontracted to JJ Abrams’ Bad Robot to produce Star Trek films, but those films are owned entirely by Paramount.
That being said, Abrams and Bad Robot currently have defacto control over many elements of the franchise and that will continue as they are masters of the film series. But JJ Abrams and Paramount cannot stop CBS from making a new TV series.
That’s why I tell CBS to start thinking about making a new Trek series. I don’t want a new Trek series to start until maybe a couple of years from now, at earliest. But I do want to see one eventually.
Maybe CBS could start planning one to air just after the next Star Trek movie is released.
It could star an entirely new crew — young, bold, beautiful, and prone to rash decisions that somehow turn out all right. It could have long arcs. It could take place in the pre-Kirk era, maybe when Pike was a young officer. (It doesn’t have to involve Pike.) And it could take place in the Alternate Timeline.
There are so many stories that could be told (or even re-told).
Get some science-fiction writers on board, too — maybe some of the Trek novelists.
CBS should start planning on issuing spec calls or at least get the ball rolling. It takes time to get people on board, especially if they are in high demand.
CBS isn’t going to make a new Star Trek series until well after the sequel comes out. And probably not until at least 2020. And even that is being optimistic. CBS doesn’t believe in Star Trek as we do; for them, it is just something they can milk for dollars till the cows come home. CBS considers the CSI franchise as their golden child; they’re planning a new version set in Los Angeles. Star Trek is just something that CBS can use to fund their other shows. Its a cynical motive for owning Trek, but its just the way it is. I guess the only way to get a new Trek series is if CBS can’t make money off the property and they decide to sell it back to Paramount.
But for that to happen, people would have to stop buying merchandise and dvds/Blu Ray.
If that’s true, then I do see the BS, and so does all of America! Boo, CBS! Boo on you! CSI ain’t THAT great!
Of course, I hope it’s not true.
#184
Actually, I’m pretty sure its not true. I just threw it out there because “Law & Order” is doing a show in L.A and I figure that there is a good chance that CSI will follow suit. I just think there is a far better chance of another CSI long before a new Trek series.
#183.
It should also probably be noted that CBS also owns the Trek print publishing empire as well.
I think your evaluation of Moonves/CBS is probably fairly accurate with regards to a Trek series. However, it should be noted that Moonves believes himself to be the true king/heir apparent of the Paramount film making legacy and to that end is ready to pounce on any perceived weakness in nuParamount to bring it back into his fold.
Don’t get me wrong. Business is business. Old Paramount (CBS) and new Paramount are more than willing to shake hands and make nice for the photographers in the name of profits, but if you look at their sides facing away from the cameras you’ll find their free hands holding daggers in a scene that would seem to be right at home in the Mirror Universe.
While you are correct that Moonves is not liable to risk his airwaves or cable networks on a Trek series, he is capable of a couple of actions that could benefit Trek fans:
1. Organize a consortium of foreign investors to assume most of the risk in syndicating a Trek TV series. This would be a first for STAR TREK as the series would be filmed entirely outside of the U.S. taking advantage of foreign government subsidies and economies for production cost savings. The trigger for which he patiently waits before letting this hammer fall is for nuParamount to actually develop a foreign Trek market that would stimulate the type of investment/commitment that this series would require of foreign investors.
2. Direct to DVD (TV) movie Trek. I have to confess this has been a puzzler for me. NBC/Universal has had good successes with its STARGATE and TREMORS direct to DVD movies – so what is Moonves waiting for? He has to be chomping at the bit to get a piece of that pie? I suppose if we look behind the productions of the NBC products we see they realized cost savings by filming outside of the U.S. So, maybe he’s also waiting for #1’s trigger for this too. But it seems like such a natural that if you are possibly afraid of the “oversaturation” boogeyman with regards to a TV series that you’d be attracted to limited direct to DVD Trek movie releases. Especially since you’ve fired up your budget movie making unit. I mean, while I wouldn’t exactly call it a “movie”, even Warner Bros. has done a BABYLON 5 direct to DVD.
#174.
Also from:
nytimes.com/2009/04/26/movies/26itzk.html
“Someone will find 50 ways to tell us we’re idiots, and it wouldn’t be ‘Trek’ if they didn’t.” – Damon Lindelof
176. Disinvited
You are right, I was confused… and still am. But in your explanation, I stand corrected. I did further reading about the Paramount/Viacom/CBS convoluted mess, and it is tremendously confusing, and I — misunderstandingly — oversimplified the “situation.” I appreciate you setting me straight… I think….
181. Anthony
Thanks, Anthony, for the Reader’s Digest version. I spent about a 45 mins. sorting through various web articles to learn more about a situation I not only didn’t know enough about, but didn’t realize I didn’t know enough about…
Whew……..
Well, I don’t think I would support direct-to-DVD movie Trek. Direct-to-DVD usually means it’s not exactly a good movie and the producers know it so they won’t even try to go the theater route, although there are exceptions.
Also, Trek is much bigger than StarGate or Tremors as far as name recognition, and I think any hint of direct-to-DVD would greatly devalue the brand and make it difficult to sustain Trek as a “tentpole” property.
I still don’t understand any of it, Disinvited and Anthony, but I feel comforted knowing that _someone_ does :)
When I worked on licensed Trek stuff it was several years ago and it was all still either Paramount or someone calling themselves Paramount, and seemed simple (ish) at the time (certainly far simpler than the Bible-sized stack of contract I had to wade through the first time I was being contracted for Star Wars material … dear lord of paperwork, preserve me) … but that may have been the publisher’s arrangement shielding me from some of the bean-countery and jiggery-pokery. Either way: bleah.
#186
You can pretty much count on Les Moonves NOT doing what you suggested. He wants to MAKE money off Star Trek, while NOT spending money on it.
We’re in a real pickle here; if us fans want a new series, we’ll have to avoid the next movie altogether and quit buying the dvds and merchandise. The franchise value would go down so far as to force CBS to get rid of a ‘toxic asset’. Either the franchise would go back to Paramount or (gasp!, gag!) NBC may buy it. Then we would have no new movie or show for about twenty years. If NBC owns the property, they’re pretty much guaranteed to screw it up beyond recognition. So we would lose with that option. If Paramount buys it back there would be a long wait before a new movie or show. And I don’t see any other networks wanting to buy the franchise. And if we keep supporting the franchise, and the sequel makes a half-billion dollars worldwide, there is still ZERO chance of a new series before the decade is out.
Its why we need Paramount to keep control of the film rights. At least we get a movie every few years. If CBS buys the film rights from Paramount, then its all over. For good.
#190.
Personally, I never swallowed any of this “diluted brand” hoo-haa that’s been floated. But then I was there at the git-go of the movie franchise watching the Paramount executive suite using Trek as a whipping post and scapegoat for past poor executive decisions and then go right on ahead producing more Trek film product anyway.
In 2005, when film Trek was supposedly “in crisis” because of NEMESIS et al’s brand dilution, exhaustion, whatever, etc. Paramount went right ahead and released NEMESIS a SECOND time on DVD that October with MORE footage edited-in.
Let’s just say I’d be more amenable to the concept if I never saw STAR TREK:NEMESIS released to Blu-ray – but they dood (sic) it.
#186. Red Dead Ryan opined “He (Moonves) wants to MAKE money off Star Trek, while NOT spending money on it.
I think you totally skipped over where I wrote “Organize a consortium of foreign investors to assume most of the risk…”
Besides, CBS/Moonves IS willing to spend some money to make money off STAR TREK. Otherwise why would he continue to publish new books and rejigger ToS for Blu-ray? Not to mention, I’m pretty sure the rejiggered DVD re-release of NEMESIS that I mentioned in 193 above happened on his watch too.
#181, Anthony, I’m confused. While Paramount owns the Star Trek films they’ve produced, aren’t they currently only the exclusive licensee of the rights to make more? CBS could rescind that license upon expiration, or failure to meet terms at any time, if I understand what friends at both companies have told me and from what I have read. Or were you merely simplifying for the sake of clarity?
#195.
I’ll let Anthony speak for his marvelous pithification for himself.
However, I will encourage people to look at it this way:
Every STAR TREK movie ever made has been based on (and featured) characters that appeared as prior art originally in television series for which CBS owns all the rights. How could it be that CBS somehow doesn’t have the right to veto any action that could put its trademarks and those copyrights at risk?
#163 dmduncan.
Have you posted this story anywhere, would you like to, because I would be interested in reading what you’ve come up with.
So, it is the real Bob Orci commenting here? I hope so. Cool!
I love the new movie Star Trek and can’t wait to see the sequel. As far as I know, Damon Lindelof came in to scrutinise the script so far, to “pull it apart” – in other words, to find the plot holes, inconsistencies in story and character development etc before any of us do, because you know what that means…Oh jeepers – even when there are no plot holes, some people will think there are.
I also read that the filming is supposed to commence in the Spring of 2011, ie April/May. With a film like this, there would be a lot to do in pre-production. Could that start in perhaps January 2011? How long would post-production work usually take for a movie like this? I know it took about six months for Unstoppable, which Chris Pine is acting in.
Anyway, Kirk needs some good loving, maybe Spock too. We need to see the Kirk/Spock/McCoy trio do some good stuff. Gosh it has been sooo long since we’ve seen them together (Star Trek VI).
I’ve been a Star Trek (TOS) fan since forever and I’ve had a “crush” on Captain Kirk just as long. William Shatner was wonderful as the original Kirk, but I also like the Chris Pine version. I think Chris can only improve. I don’t think this Kirk needs to be exactly like prime Kirk, but close enough.
Anyway, if you are reading this, the real Bob Orci, keep up the good work and lots of luck on the Untitled Star Trek sequel project!
@11. Excuse me, but Kingdom of Heaven (Directors Cut) is the best thing that Scott did since Blade Runner.
Bob Orci has been known to comment here, indeed.
Speaking of “Blade Runner,” that’s one movie I’m glad there’s been no prequel, sequel or any other -quel. I know such a project has been rumored for years, and the Jeter novels are proposed to be direct sequels to the film. But, IMO, this is a movie that should never be revisited. No film will ever capture the look, the mood, the feel of “Blade Runner,” much the same way “2010″ could never have recaptured the feel of “2001″ (even though it wasn’t a bad film). “Blade Runner,” much like “2001,” is a work of art, and I hope it will continue to be left alone.
198.
Will do, thanks!
Bob, hows C& A’s coming along?
203. Half way through. It might work!
Bob, cool deal, were you a big fan before? because honestly I never heard of the book before this movie.
#201: “Speaking of “Blade Runner,” that’s one movie I’m glad there’s been no prequel, sequel or any other -quel.”
Agreed, but given the way the industry seems to work (typical day: wake up with no ideas, go rummaging in the ideas of others, consume, regurgitate) it remains a ticking time bomb of queasy certainty. I just hope it happens after I’m cold and buried.
197: “Have you posted this story anywhere, would you like to, because I would be interested in reading what you’ve come up with.”
Not really. (I have two, actually, but only one that’s been outlined from start to finish). The more I like how an idea is turning out, the more tight lipped I become on it. But maybe I’ll send the treatment to Bob! At the very least, I think he’d get a kick out of how I developed what happens next from what they wrote in the previous movie.
#206.
I agree with you and 201 but I still find it lamentable that it does appear that it will be interminably stuck in what I often consider sideways “-quels”: sundry and various cuts, re-editing, new sound mixes, lost footage restorations, etc. to justify a new “definitive” edition release every few years that only pauses every ten years or so to release a “new” multi-disc box set of every version released to date.
I mean this may be a slight exaggeration but I often find myself stuck in a patented Kirk computer logic loop when moved to revisit this movie as I’m trying to decide just exactly which version of it that I most want to see.
#207
Got it, well if you ever feel a little less tight liped about it I wouldnt mind seeing what you’ve got written. I’ve been writting a bit myself, but its not completed yet (about half done), so thats a big reason why Im interested. (not to “steal” ideas btw lol, just to compare)
The kids today prefer “The Phantom Menace” over “The Empire Strikes Back”. That is a shame. Particularly since 2010 is the 30th anniversary of one of the greatest sequels ever made.
Remaking Blade Runner would be like repainting the Mona Lisa as Ke$ha.
#211
GAWD! You had to mention Ke$ha—gag–blagh—choke—-cough!
211 –” Remaking Blade Runner would be like repainting the Mona Lisa as Ke$ha”
Or like Tim Burton remaking Willie Wonka. Why mess with perfection.
Tim Burton is a talentless hack!
#214.
Oh I don’t know, in a reimagined CATSPAW, I might enjoy seeing a goth Yeoman Rand saying “Betelgeuse Betelgeuse Betelgeuse.”
I mean some films are unintentional masterpieces which I think you cannot reproduce as such.
The original Day the Earth Stood Still was like that. The remake was a total abortion. Absolutely pointless. It actually made the original look that much better.
#216
Yeah, I agree with you. Keanu Reeves was miscast (just like he was in the majority of movies he’s done, barring “The Matrix” and the “Bill And Ted” movies) in the so-so but unneccessary remake.
The original on the other hand, is a total classic. And it really sparkles on Blu Ray!
216.
Indeed, no need to revisit the film THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL, its script or effects.
But I do think a more faithful film to the original source material, FAREWELL TO THE MASTER, could be done with merit – just please, Hollywood stop with the attempts at brand connection/creation.