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Zachary Quinto Thinks Spock Should Be Rebuilding The Vulcan Race August 3, 2011

by TrekMovie.com Staff , Filed under: Celebrity,Star Trek Into Darkness , trackback

One of the biggest events in the Star Trek movie was the destruction of Vulcan and this has got Star Trek’s new Spock Zachary Quinto wondering what his character may be doing to help the remaining Vulcan race in the sequel.

 

Quinto thinks Spock wants to rebuild the Vulcan race

The Star Trek stars still haven’t seen a script for the sequel, but that doesn’t stop them from imagining what they may be up to once the film gets going. Recently Zoe Saldana said that she was hoping for Uhura take her relationship with Spock to the next level and "hook up." And in a new interview Zachary Quinto appears to be on the same page, however he (fittingly) uses somewhat more academic terminology:

Where do you think your character is in the second film, where do you think his character journey is going?

I wonder about that. I would imagine (this is just speculative), his planet’s been destroyed, he feels a real imperative to rebuild his race. But he’s in love with a human. There’s probably some potential conflict in that dynamic, I would not be surprised, and I would be intrigued and excited by that if that were the case. Again, I have such implicit trust in all of those guys: Damon, Bob and Alex, and J.J. I feel like they’re going to take us where we need to go. And we’re going to follow them whole-heartedly.

Do you think they’ll keep the romance story alive with you, and do you want them to?

I do think [so]. I don’t see how they could just drop it. It may be fraught, I don’t know!

Where is Spock now? He’s one of the last few Vulcans

He’s not the only Vulcan, I think I said, "Of my planet’s nearly 6 billion inhabitants, approximately 10,000 have survived." He’s not the only one. But the odds aren’t great. He has a bit of a cultural imperative to [help].


Quinto thinks Spock Spock has a "cultural imperitive"  to help keep the Vulan race going…

More from Quinto at io9.

Comments

1. Phil - August 3, 2011

Spock is half human, so getting busy with Uhura should not be a problem..

2. *into the bushes* - August 3, 2011

I seem to remember a li’l line from a recent Trek; “Fortunately, you can be in two places at once.” We already have a Spock on he job.

3. Brett Campbell - August 3, 2011

How long does it take a planet with inhabitants who have a once-every-seven-years mating cycle to amass a population of nearly six billion? I would think it would take some time. Would Vulcans increase the rate of reproduction as a “logical” necessity for repopulating their species? That would give Spock the incentive to get busy … ; )

4. Vultan - August 3, 2011

Oddly enough, I wasn’t quite as upset with alternate universe Vulcan being destroyed as I was prime universe’s Romulus being destroyed.

It just seemed that from all the way back to their first appearance in “Balance of Terror” to seeing them fight alongside the Federation in DS9 and “Nemesis,” the Romulans were the work-in-progress race of Star Trek—from xenophobic warmongers to a shaky wartime alliance to a borderline friendship between cultures.

And for me that’s what Trek is all about: the hard work toward friendship… not a star suddenly exploding and setting up cross-universe plot points… and DVD sales.

5. MJ - August 3, 2011

Based on this, I say let Quinto write the script and schedule production to start this Fall. He seems to have a lot better idea of how to move forward than the Supreme Court has at this point.

6. Will_H - August 3, 2011

@2, exactly. Maybe Zach didn’t pay attention to that little bit.

On another note, I seriously hope they do drop the thing with him and Uhura, it felt totally conjured up to me and others I’ve talked to. If you want to get technical, they wouldn’t be able to sustain a relationship anyways as he’s her superior officer.

7. Capt. of the U.S.S. Anduril - August 3, 2011

@3 Vulcans can mate at times other than the Ponn Farr. The Ponn Farr is more of a “Screw or DIE” time period.

8. The Vulcanista }:-) - August 3, 2011

If Pon-farr is indeed an unbreakable 7-year cycle, logic dictates that there be a whole lotta artificial insemination taking place on that Vulcan colony in the JJverse. Sort of like taking one for the team, I suppose.

PLL&P,
The Vulcanista

9. The 76th Distillation of Blue - August 3, 2011

#6 that didnt stop Riker and Troi from rekindling a old relationship when he was her superior officer.
The did more than sustain it, by getting married and then continuing to go on and be her superior officer when he was promoted to captain the Titan and she still served under him

though i do want to see them drop the spock uhura thing.

10. Charla - August 3, 2011

#6 No no no It can work. There are some office/work romances that lead to more than a work relationship. It was fun to see a little part of his human side come through with Spock. (I got this one, Keachick, heehee)

Also it will help appeal to the females who really like chick flicks and are dragged to the theater by their Trek loving men. LOL I personally don’t care much for “chick flicks” and I drag my husband to see all the Sci-Fi and Action movies! hahaha

I think it was a clever idea to involve the many elements/emotions into this movie, it will appeal to a larger population, sell more tickets and keep Trek going even longer. Just my opinion of course.

11. lemrick - August 3, 2011

The thing is, the Vulcan pon farr cycle is tied directly to the planet. Its inhabitants have a strong urge to return to the home-world and mate. What happens when that home-world is no longer there? Does it usher in premature pon farr cycles? I really hope the team is not having trouble coming up with a story to tell with as many conundrums as they left open. There are some very huge problems that have been created, and they need to be dealt with. I like Quinto’s speculations especially when reading the entire article.

Don’t mind Spock/Uhura. It could be intriguing if built upon correctly.

12. lemrick - August 3, 2011

@ 10. Charla

“I think it was a clever idea to involve the many elements/emotions into this movie, it will appeal to a larger population, sell more tickets and keep Trek going even longer. Just my opinion of course.”

I agree.

13. Enterprise C - August 3, 2011

Star Trek II: The Search For Vulcan

14. Brett Campbell - August 3, 2011

7 – Thanks. I know mostly the TOS mythos and not so much from the spin-offs. Boy, Ted Sturgeon came up with some unique ideas about sexuality in his novels and in “Amok Time.” Thanks for the clarification.

15. Space - August 3, 2011

Hooking Up- no. Second movie here, people. Let’s take it a little slower.

16. Phil - August 3, 2011

Star Trek 12: A Hard Vulcan is Good to Find

Sorry…really, I am…

17. CRasch - August 3, 2011

The question is, could Romulins help populate the Vulcan culture. I can imagine Prime Spock staring a new Vulcan home world and bringing in Romulins and Humans as a new Vulcan culture while the new Spock emotions is still bitter about the lost of his mother.

18. Count - August 3, 2011

If i recall correctly, Voyager (and maybe TNG) indicated that once every 7 years was the “Forced” period of mating. But they could do it more often.

come to think of it, i believe it was voyager, in the ep where Tuvok was being stalked by the alien woman from the resort program.

19. Mel - August 3, 2011

There is also old Spock and sperm donations. So please don’t make preserving his genes a problem in the next movie. It is easily done.

But personally I think the other Vulcans would prefer, if he doesn’t get any children. They were already opposed to him as a hybrid. I think they would be even less tolerant with diluting the Vulcan race now, that only so few are left. I really don’t think they like hybrids, even only 1/4 humans/ 3/4 Vulcans ones. Most Vulcans came across as very racist in the last movie.

Either way I really hope we won’t see any marriage/baby story lines involving Spock and Uhura. The Enterprise is no place for babies/children running around. That was really ridiculous in TNG! And I don’t think they would want a child growing up without parents somewhere else.

They are also still both very young and at the beginning of their career. Especially Uhura gave the impression, that she worked very hard for her career and doesn’t want to stay on earth playing loving mother any time soon. I mean she is only in her early 20s!

Personally I even think marriage would be too early at this point in time. They are still very young and who knows how long they are already together? Uhura was at the academy for maybe four years. I really doubt a relationship started at once. I just don’t see them together for more than 1-2 years. Marriage would be all be too fast.

Young people normally don’t marry after knowing each other for only a relative short time, at least not the responsible ones. There is no need to hurry because of any biological clock ticking. They can take their time getting to know each other better and finding out for sure, if they belong forever together or better not. Often young people don’t marry someone they are together with in their early 20s. Maybe Spock and Uhura will also find out, that they have other interests in the long term.

20. Kate - August 3, 2011

I loved nu star trek and nu spock!

21. red dead ryan - August 3, 2011

Look, I’m fine with Uhura getting a bigger role in the sequel. But I also want to see some Kirk-Spock-McCoy moments with McCoy getting more time in the sequel than last time. I don’t want Spock and Uhura “hooking up” because Spock is supposed to have this inner struggle between his human and Vulcan halves, while Uhura needs to be seen doing her job. Spock and Uhura can be good, close friends without needing a romance.

And if they want a “big four” with Uhura included, I’m okay with that. But I don’t want to see McCoy replaced by Uhura!

22. njdss4 - August 3, 2011

Spock Prime didn’t want young Spock to spend the rest of his life “rebuilding” Vulcan society because Spock Prime would be able to do it. (read: Spock Prime wants to spend his final years getting busy with the ladies)

23. red dead ryan - August 3, 2011

And if I hear any more about Zoe Saldana wanting Uhura to be a kick-ass action hero ballbuster, I think I’ll lose it. Uhura is supposed to be a communications officer, one who is strong through her intellect and talents. I want to see her decipher codes, and translate alien languages. And display the same kind of wit she had in “The Search For Spock” when she ordered the ensign into the closet.

I don’t want Zoe Saldana turning Uhura into another Neytiri from “Avatar”, or a female action fighter like in “The Losers” or “Colombiana”. If I wanted that, I’ll just watch those movies!

24. Tom - August 3, 2011

If Vulcan is destroyed in the past how can Nero go back and destroy it? Time travel is always a bad idea unless it’s Star Trek IV.

25. OLLEY OLLEY OLLEY - August 3, 2011

@ 5. MJ

I say let Shatner write the script.

26. Spock's Girl - August 3, 2011

#24

Time travel doen’t work like that in star trek universe. With the theory of an infinity number of parallel universes (see TNG episode Parallels) Nero came from a different universe where Vulcan was not destroyed or better Nero created a new (alternative) universe (which runs parallel with the prime universe) when he came back in time and destroyed Vucan.

27. red dead ryan - August 3, 2011

#24.

Uhhh, because Nero travelled back in time BEFORE he destroyed Vulcan, and after creating the alternate timeline.

#25.

Good God no! I love William Shatner, but he just wasn’t meant to direct!

28. Mel - August 3, 2011

@ 24

Nero created a new alternative universe with going back to the past. It is another time travel theory and not like in the “Back to the Future” movies.

29. red dead ryan - August 3, 2011

Damn! I meant to say that “Nero created a new timeline when he travelled back in time BEFORE destroying Vulcan”.

30. Mel - August 3, 2011

@ 24

In the “Back to the Future” movies the universe is like one long street. You can only go back and forth on it. And whatever you do on the older part of the street will influence, how the newer part will look like.

In the new Star Trek movie it is different. The universe consists of tons of streets. All the time streets have branches, which go in different directions and look different. The Star Trek series played in one street. Nero went back on it and build a side road. The new movie shows this side road since Nero’s appearance.

But I understand, why you are confused. In Star Trek 4 it looks more like they used the “Back to the Future” time travel theory, because they seemed to be back, where they left. I mean with the new movie Star Trek time travel theory, it would have made more sense, if they appeared BEFORE the probe arrived at earth. That would have prevented its attack.

In the TOS episode “The City on the Edge of Forever”, it looks even more like the “Back to the future” theory. After McCoy went through the portal, their known present is gone, but it is there again, when they let Edith Keeler die. That wouldn’t have happened, with the alternative universe theory. McCoy wouldn’t have changed the future, where Kirk, Spock and so on were in. Earth wouldn’t have been gone. They wouldn’t have to let Edith Keeler die, because McCoy would have only created a new alternative universe, when he rescued her and would have not influenced the future, where his friend were.

According to the new movie, it is impossible to change the past of your own timeline. You can only create a new alternative universe/timeline.

Star Trek is really inconsistent in this regard. I guess they change it all the time to suit their story line. ;-)

31. Amanda - August 3, 2011

I can’t wait for the sequel

32. Daniela - August 3, 2011

So find I keep explaining this and I’s getting old. Spock/Uhura was slightly absurd. First of all, if we remember Amok Time, Spock was supposed to be bonded with T’Pring. I know this is an alternate universe, but I see no logical reason why that would be changed in Spock’s life. And i highly doubt Spock would cheat on his almost-wife. Second, if Spock was an instructor at Starfleet Academy and Uhura a cadet, chances for Spock to break regulations and date a cadet are almost inexistent considering that fact that he is Vulcan an does not react on emotion, but follows logic and regulations. And third, Uhura is an amazing character. She did not have enough impact in TOS but the simple fact that she was there was big. Now, we all complain about how sexist it was that her role was not bigger, and yet we’re in 2009 and we have a new Uhura that is assigned on the Enterprise because she’s dating her superior officer. Sexist much? She’s the only woman on the bridge, why not just let her character be built separately, with the strong and wonderful personality we all know she has, not orbiting a guy and being defined solely through that relationship. And it’s not hard to drop the whole thing, because it was slightly ambiguous.
I would also like it it they stuck to the classic triunvirate, cause that interaction is just hilarious, especially because the new McCoy is more full of life. The thing I always liked about TOS was that they would all hook up with different chicks on different planets, but at the end of the day, they were all married to their jobs, and maybe that is something that should be perpetuated in the new movies as well.
On a different not, about rebuilding the race, if Spock is hybrid, chances are he is sterile. By rebuilding the race, I would think more he was talking about the culture, so Spock Prime can easily take care of that.

33. Buzz Cagney - August 3, 2011

So lets get Spock and Uhura making babies, and also Kirk and Rand. Scott and Keenser can set up home together and adopt and Chekov will surely be next in line to find a cute little space babe. She’ll likely have vampiristic tendencies (just to keep the youth market on board) and she’ll give up the blood sucking for love and making babies.
So, after all of that is done, in twenty years we will truly have Star Trek: The Next Generation. :-D

34. thegermanmatthias - August 3, 2011

The mentioned conflict would be very interesting! I could also imagine, a Spock in that timeline would try to be more vulkan than human. Like Worf, who decided to be “more honorable” etc. as he thought an ideal Klingon would be, because he did not experience so much other Klingons. My personal wish for Spock is, he will stay together with Uhura, but let them go through difficult times. After all he could also remember his mother and his feelings for her. So he could find a good balance between his wish to beware his vulkan heritage and living together with a human. End-Scene of Star Trek 12: two crying babys and Spock rising an eye-brow, saying: “I never was so aware of the fact, human beings are capable to produce more than two babys at once!”

35. Buzz Cagney - August 3, 2011

#31 I think you are going to have to!

36. thegermanmatthias - August 3, 2011

OH, i mean… they could have more than twins in the end ;)

37. thegermanmatthias - August 3, 2011

#31 Resistance is futile. We are Viacom. You will have to wait until we think it is time to enjoy you with the new Star Trek Movie.

X) Sorry, had to make this.

38. Jack - August 3, 2011

Was it only 10,000? I kind of hope we’re not seeing too much of New Vulcan. Or anything at all. It just doesn’t seem compelling to me. They’ll be fine – they can certainly take care of themselves. And, I’m hoping to God that there’s not a hidden menace on their new world(s) — we’ve seen that movie.

Incidentally, just saw Cowboys and Aliens and it was… okay. Better than I’d expected, but certainly a formulaic summer movie. But a decent one. I’m still hoping for Adam Beach in this next Trek.

Paul Dano as Charlie X (he’s too old, since Charlie would be a young kid at the end of Trek 09.. and really, I don’t want to see the character again)?

39. SPOCKBOY - August 3, 2011

There was one thing I wished they had touched on more. In Immunity Syndrome, Spock was quite affected by the death of 400 Vulcans via telepathic link. I wanted Nu Spock to be “completely” freaked by sensing the death of 6 billion vulcans. :)

Good source of dramatic struggle, along with the loss of his mother.
I would have liked to have seen him at his wits end which would have supported his reaction to Kirk prodding him. But the way it played out, it felt more like a rehash of the brawl in the transporter room in “Paradise Syndrome”

40. Aurore - August 3, 2011

“Zachary Quinto Thinks Spock Should Be Rebuilding The Vulcan Race”

Well………STOP “THINKING” ABOUT IT!!!

STOP GIVING INTERVIEWS!!! GET ON WITH IT ALREADY!!!!

:))

41. tman - August 3, 2011

1. TOS had MANY instances where you see how skilled and cross-trained the Federation is. Life-science, medical, you name it; if the more qualified guy dies they pick up the pieces and do THEIR job. There’s something wonderful in that model that Uhura kicking ass can be consistent with.
2. I’m very glad Quinto isn’t writing the next movie because I don’t think the urge to repopulate is really what should drive Spock and Uhura apart. As I’ve mentioned previously the depiction of Spock in the last film was flawed. He was a technician, not a scientist. His love of science was missing. And the truth of Vulcan’s violent nature and the need to be at peace to control himself was sadly missing. Vulcan nature is not EASY. Trust in love is not easy. You don’t need something as superficial and 1-dimensional as “repopulating the species to have conflict in the Spock-Uhura relationship.

42. Aurore - August 3, 2011

“End-Scene of Star Trek 12: two crying babys and Spock rising an eye-brow, saying: ‘I never was so aware of the fact, human beings are capable to produce more than two babys at once!’ ”

Renesmee and Giovanna , sparkling in the sunlight , glowing through the lens flares ( and in 3D ) , were thus born……..

Dmduncan is begging for it . Don’t let him down…

:)

43. Jack - August 3, 2011

32. If Spock is hybrid, chances are he is sterile

Why? And, I’m hoping rebuilding Vulcan doesn’t mean literally repopulating the race.

44. Mel - August 3, 2011

Spock didn’t act much like a Vulcan in the last movie. He showed his emotions all the time for everyone plain to see. That kissing scene in front of other people didn’t help. I think a lot of humans wouldn’t even kiss at their work place in front of their co-workers!

If they will continue with Spock/Uhura, that must stop. Spock shouldn’t show his love publicly. I think it is even inappropriate for Uhura. He is after all her boss and Starfleet is a military. So no more mooning eyes from her, while they are on the bridge.

Personally I would still prefer, if they break up on cordial terms. I think showing scenes with them in private settings a waste of valuable movie time. I am not interested in their relationship and prefer to see other things and movie time is limited.

I also would prefer it, if not half of Uhura’s scenes would be about her being a girlfriend or love interest again. Spock had overall much more scenes, so his boyfriend scenes were a much smaller part of his role, so he was defined less by them. But Uhura isn’t a main character and I really doubt, she will get as much screen time as Kirk and Spock in the next movie. I want that she is much more characterized as a separate being and not only as the appendix of a main character.

That is another reason, why I hope they break up. If they stay together, I think Uhura’s scenes will be again to a large part girlfriend scenes. As she is unfortunately the only main female character, that doesn’t left much time for showing women doing something professional, which is really pathetic. I mean even TOS had with Chapel and Rand more female characters, which were showed working.

45. somethoughts - August 3, 2011

#23

Exactly, stick to kirk, spock, mccoy and they will be fine, the other characters can get supportive roles or it would turn into cheesy xmen film where every star gets their turn to shine, and would seemed forced. Jack of all trades, masters of none.

46. somethoughts - August 3, 2011

#44

Yea spock n uhura should be just friends, spock belongs to kirk and mccoy.

47. somethoughts - August 3, 2011

#32

Exactly

48. Aurore - August 4, 2011

@42. Aurore.

Yeah.

Spock, Kirk and McCoy should just be friends .

Spock belongs to himself ( and Uhura ).

:)

49. Odkin - August 4, 2011

Can we all please remember that these are not real people – they are dramatic devices? They have emotional roles to play. Spocks is “the lonely outsider”. The very root of Spocks appeal is NOT just his logic – it is his uniqueness and loneliness as a “half-breed” who doesn’t fit in anywhere and who CHOOSES not to return the obvious love of Chapel.

That’s why lonely and unloved geeks have always loved Spock. It’s why Clark Kent is such a necessary device for Superman. It allows the reader/viewer to rationalize they they COULD be strong, or popular, or loved, but they DARE not, because of their innate superiority, of course. It’s so lonely being better than everybody else…. See why geeks feel connected?

Anyway… that’s why the Uhura romance is the most dramatically STUPID move in the entire movie. There were plenty of storytelling flaws (the terrible idea of marooning Kirk, the ice planet meeting coincidences, the unfunny Kirk injection side-effects, the completely unclear parallel universe explanation, Nero’s missing years, etc) but those are all flaws of craft. The Uhura romance was a flaw of talent, and complete misunderstanding of why anyone even cares about the character to begin with.

50. Jack - August 4, 2011

44. For all the talk of making Uhura a more important character in the last one, you’re absolutely right — she was the girlfriend/love interest/object of desire. I’d argue that Trek 09 was more sexist than TOS.

There’s mom who has a baby and can’t manage to raise him without her dead husband, so she marries a deadbeat jerk and then essentially abandons her kid; Uhura who gets ogled, is involved with an instructor and has exceptional aural (tee hee) sensitivity; the needy, promiscuous Orion who apparently got duped (and whom Kirk can’t even tell apart from other Orion girls); one or two ineffectual female crew members (the transporter officer who can’t beam up Kirk and Sulu, the other who panics that the ship won’t make it to safety) and Spock’s beatific mother, who, of course, dies, but doesn’t do much else.

Heck, even characters mentioned by name only — Ensign McKenna, Dr.
Prurie — are men.

51. Richard C. - August 4, 2011

This is why you should bring in T’pring for the sequel!

52. somethoughts - August 4, 2011

#50

Like those twin autobots who couldnt read, had missing or gold teeth and acted like thugs? In revenge of the fallen? I heard that was bays idea though

53. somethoughts - August 4, 2011

2 more years of waiting :) can we get a glimsp of the sequel in villain, general story or teaser trailer at least? :(

54. captain_neill - August 4, 2011

Although I HATED the decision to destroy Vulcan addressing it in the next film would be welcomed. It would no longer just be considered a shock tactic.

But still will never be happy about it.

And the relationship, I was not a fan of that decision so I can take it or leave it.

Once the movie hits I hope to God they make it good though.

55. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 4, 2011

Oh here we go again – writing the same old stuff about how silly the Spock/Uhura relationship was etc etc.

It is likely that prime Spock is interested in helping to rebuild the Vulcan culture and ensure the security of the surviving Vulcans on this new planet he has found for them. Maybe he gets lucky with a young Vulcan woman and so follows the patter of little feet.

Just as arranged marriage was something that Vulcans did, it is possible bigamy and polyandry could occur as well. Bigamy may be a problem for Uhura, but not necessarily for the younger Spock, especially given the circumstances. It is likely that his father practised monogamy with his human wife, but did all Vulcans?

#48 – “Spock, Kirk and McCoy should just be friends.
Spock belongs to himself ( and Uhura ).”
I agree. Spock belongs to himself and possibly Uhura…

Of course, one of the assumptions made is that Vulcan women will be able to become pregnant via artificial insemination and/or some form of IVF treatment. This is because we assume they are like human females. What if Vulcan women are physiologically more like cats? The only way a female cat can get pregnant is by being f&*ked by a boy cat. Artificial insemination etc does not work. What if Vulcan females were this way?

#50 While Kirk ogles Uhura, I ogle him… such is the sexist hussy that I am…:). Some of the scenes mentioned were deleted. I do not consider them part of the story or canon.

56. Dom - August 4, 2011

Given that I think Quinto was the weakest link in the new cast, they could always write Spock out as heading back to the Vulcan colony and give us more McCoy! ;)

57. somethoughts - August 4, 2011

#56

Really? I thought the debate between kirk and spock was cool, how quinto speaks is so awesome, his pacing and his raw version of spock was brilliant.

58. somethoughts - August 4, 2011

What bothers me is Picard and Kirk is allowed to go back in time to save earth and alien worlds countless times but in this reality its too bad too sad Vulcan :)

59. Dom - August 4, 2011

Nah, I don’t think he really nailed it, at least not in the way Chris Pine and Karl Urban did. I mean Quinto initially has a resemblance to Leonard Nimoy, but on closer inspection not so much. If Leonard Nimoy hadn’t been in the film, I might have been more positive, but there’s no comparison between the two for me. I found Kirk and McCoy far more interesting to watch.

60. Chris - August 4, 2011

An internal conflict between his human emotion of love for Uhura and his Vulcan logic to persue a relationship with a Vulcan woman, say I don’t know, maybe T’Pring, would be an interesting dynamic. Would be a slightly different take on Amok Time as well! Maybe T’Pring and Uhura could fight instead ;-)

Seriously though…not the fighting part

61. somethoughts - August 4, 2011

#59

I think you have to watch quinto from the point of view that hes playing a much younger, emotional version of the spock you knew.

#60

That could work, sure beats answering hails or translating msgs in the ibridge :) if they can replicate the fighting sequences from ipman, I would love boborci longtime.

62. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 4, 2011

#40 I am sure that Zachary Quinto is more than ready to get on with playing Spock again. He is waiting, like everyone else.

Calling Charla (the nurse?) – I really think that Bad Robot requires an induction in order to help them get this baby out. Is there any chance of slipping a prostaglandin or two in wherever to get the process well and truly started? Better be prepared for a big flood…

:-)

63. Tom - August 4, 2011

If they are going to do this, i would love to see Spock Prime involved even in a small way. At least a mention of what role he is playing in it.

64. Ripped Shirt Kirk - August 4, 2011

Pairing Spock and Uhura was incredibly stupid to begging with, from the get go severely limiting both characters and certainly only happened because the writers weren’t capable to come up with other ways so that she was as prominent.

I’m a big Trek fan and regarding the last film I had no problem at all with its directing, pacing or even the lens flares, but the plot was so mind numbing stupid that I shiver every time I think the same writers are the ones making the sequel.

If possible I only hope they can think for two seconds before writing anything so that no more supernovas whose explosions magically move faster than light can threaten entire Galaxies, a space faring race can’t figure out a ship in orbit is firing on their planet, or warp beaming that certainly will never be heard again can happen. Thank God JJ was intelligent enough to not include the bit where the Klingons had the Narada for twenty years and not immediately tore it apart to see how it work but conveniently left it intact and ready so that Nero could recapture it.

Let’s hope that by the end of the next movie Kirk isn’t promoted to Admiral.

65. David C. Roberson - August 4, 2011

I was just thinking about how interesting it would be if Star Trek ’09 was the last Star Trek movie ever. I’m not saying I WANT that, I’m just saying it would be… fascinating.

66. Richard Daystrom - August 4, 2011

I found the whole Vulcan destruction thing a bit unbelievable. We had seen in past series where Vulcan had it’s own fleet. Even if they were sent to fight Nero and were all destroyed, wouldn’t there have been back up planet defenses that could have destroyed the mining platform? Kirk and Sulu landed on it without being fired on in their approach. Surely, Vulcan would have had planet based phasers or missles.

67. amy - August 4, 2011

given I felt he was only tthing hat worked in the last film unlike Pine who was merely playing himself and people in love with him think it is acting, and KU was nothing like Bones was intended to be which Bones is supposed to be racist like Archie Bumker you laugh but you get it, I am glad to know he will be back. Only reason to watch the film if you aren’t watching to screw Pine or imagine Pime and KU are screwing like some twits out there. Americans generally don’t know what acting is and think what they want to sleep with is all there is to it. Not every watching movies for who you watch for so try stop insulting others who comes from acting with nonsense about Quinto should be let go. Given Pine has never shown much respect to ST fans the worship of some is pathetic. Since everyone behid the scenes says Quinto was the most passionate and KU said he was the one person he could name who became the character. So some can choke on that. I am also trilled to see him support S/U. Many don’t want it because they hate the idea of black female being written like a white one all white female roles have a love life and a career but suddenly we are told U can only have one or other. Bigoted indeed.

68. Victor Hugo - August 4, 2011

67. Hey, not everybody needs to think about sex ALL the time.

Me, i watch ST to see starships fly-by or explode or firing colorful lasers.

69. Aurore - August 4, 2011

“Me, i watch ST to see starships fly-by or explode or firing colorful lasers.”

Enough with the sexual metaphors , please !

Have some decency .

:))

70. Victor Hugo - August 4, 2011

….. disc shaped space ships arrive on a big glowing ball and spread into a glorious million particles……hhhhmmmmm….

71. Sebastian S. - August 4, 2011

It’d be interesting to have a “Menagerie” style plotline where Spock risks his life and career in a vain attempt to violate the ‘temporal’ Prime Directive and alter the past in a desperate bid to save Vulcan… and fails!

As for the Spock/Uhura romance? I enjoyed it (harkened back to their dubious flirtations in the early days of TOS). And I hope they don’t just drop it like it never happened; no reset buttons in the alternate timeline, please…

72. Chris cape - August 4, 2011

Seriously, how many centuries have the vulcan’s been an interstellar race? You telling me they only have 10,000 people off world at any one time? INCLUDING those who managed to escape before the planet was destroyed? Give me a break, there are possibly millions or more on colonies, starships etc?

73. Aurore - August 4, 2011

70. Victor Hugo.

Warning for excessive moaning. Final warning.

:))

74. Dom - August 4, 2011

72.

Well, in theory, since the Romulans are a breakaway faction from Vulcan, arguably the destruction is wrought on a culture rather than a species.

75. Denise de Arman - August 4, 2011

The Spock/Uhura relationship in the last film totally destroyed the authenticity of both characters, IMHO. Yes, Spock was younger and perhaps he was more emotional because of the destruction of Vulcan and the death of his mother. However, I cannot swallow the tasteless meal the writers forced upon us regarding Spock, as an Academy instructor, allowing a cadet to kiss him, especially in front of other Starfeet officers. Earlier in the movie, the writers portray Spock as being a stickler for the rules and regulations of the Academy by bringing charges against Kirk for tampering with the Kobiyashi Maru computer simulation. So, according to the writers, he is a character who brings charges against one cadet for “breaking the rules”, yet he himself breaks the rules by engaging in a physical relationship with his student. Spock is many things, but a hypocrite with no integrity? I think not. No amount of grief or emotional upset in the true character of Spock would prompt him to engage in this sort of behavior outside of influences such as alien spores, etc.

In an earlier thread regarding the Spock/Uhura relationship Bob Orci stated that the Spock/Uhura storyline was one of the deciding factors in Abrams decision to direct the film. That remark annoyed me to no end, as it revealed that neither the writers nor Abrams have any true insight into Spock’s character as it was defined in TOS, or if they did, it was ignored by them all simply to establish a Luke/Han Solo/Leia triangle between the three characters of Kirk, Spock and Uhura (as we all know Abrams is a die-hard Star Wars fan). This is my own personal viewpoint, of course; others may disagree with me, but it seemed apparent to me that the famed romantic triangle from Star Wars was uncerimoniously shoved into the Star Trek universe irregardless of the character damage done.

Needless to say, I truly hope the Spock/Uhura storyline is not a part of any more Star Trek fims created by this production team. The writers need to be more mindful of the consequences of their characters’ actions and motivations, IMHO. I long to see the Kirk/Spock/McCoy dynamic in future films as it was established so well in TOS. I also hope that the team treat Uhura’s character more respectfully than relegating her to the “Spock’s girlfriend” corner. Zoe Saldana and Zachary Quinto might express a wish for their characters to “hook up”, but with all due respect, I do not think either of them understand the critical nuances of their iconic characters (truthfully speaking, I do not think ANYONE on the current production team does, and that is a punch in the gut to the Star Trek mythos). Here’s hoping that The Supreme Court sees the error of their ways and returns us to a Star Trek formula for future screenplays, foregoing the temptation to “borrow” plot devices from other sources and reducing these multi-layered characters to one-dimentional charactertures.

76. Captain Kirks Toupe - August 4, 2011

@ the Spock and Uhura Should be boning the entire movie….

Parenthood the Sequel:Star Trek!

Or Maybe

Spock Trek:The Search for Poon

Sheesh just get it over with and destroy it completely, when did Star Trek become about Spock and Uhura getting laid?

77. The TOS Purist aka The Purolator - August 4, 2011

Geez, doesn’t ANYBODY watch TOS? Spock makes it pretty clear in “The Cloud Minders” that the seven year cycle can be broken…they can “do it” when they want. The pon farr is just when they HAVE to do it…or else.

Speaking of which, he also makes it clear in “Amok Time” that Vulcans have to return to their planet in order to mate (like trout). Now that there isn’t a planet for them to return to, the Vulcan race can only die out. There’s no way for them to continue, unless they want to go against what was established in “Amok Time” (and there’s no way they can get around that detail, even with their stupid “oh, but this is an alternate reality” excuse).

They still should have done their homework.

78. Desstruxion - August 4, 2011

They better get to “pon farrin” as soon as possible.

79. T'Cal - August 4, 2011

Perhaps because he is half human he’ll break up with Uhura just so he can mate with another Vulcan. A child produced between Uhura and Spock would be only one quarter Vulcan, watering down an already shrinking race. Logic dictates that he seek out a Vulcan mate.

80. trekker 5 - August 4, 2011

#40,Aurore,I like the way you think!! :) Anyway,give her all you got Spock!! :)

81. SoonerDave - August 4, 2011

They can’t do TOO much with the “pon farr” business with 99.99% of the population now dead…Spock’s T’Pring bit the dust in the Abramsplosion of Vulcan.

That said, I *LOATHE* the Spock-Uhura nonsense. Almost as much as Ih ate Budgineeing. It trivializies Uhura’s character and makes her seem like a leveraging opportunist, and makes Spock look like his Vulcan element doesn’t affect him that much.

82. Pomishians - August 4, 2011

72.

I believe the 10,000 survivors refers solely to the Vulcans the escaped the planet during the attack and doesn’t include the ones that were already off-world.

83. TheKeeper - August 4, 2011

Remember folks, it’s not that Vulcans can “only” mate once every seven years, it’s that they experiance “Pon Farr” once every seven years. So mating at will, even for recuration is not out of the question. They do have emotions, hence needs also.

84. SirBroiler - August 4, 2011

Yes! Yes! Yes! I’ve been saying this on many posts here. The action of this film should be based on Spock’s deep desire to change the course of history – so Vulcan is never destroyed.

Think about the Menagerie here for a second. Spock was willing to risk his career to help one single man – Pike. Now put that same Spock in the position of having to rebuild his race. He would do what he felt was necessary – logical or not – to save Vulcan and his people.

I know people cringe at more time travel – but it’s a key component to so many Star Trek stories that it shouldn’t be discounted here. Search my other posts if you have any interest in seeing how it can all work – with the Guardian of Forever, Carol Marcus, and even Khan makes a very cool appearance to set up the third film.

Lots of possibilities for a great movie that ties back directly to original Trek and most importantly stays true to the characters and their motivations.

85. Shannon Nutt - August 4, 2011

I’m like the others, I figured Spock Prime was doing the “rebuilding” work for Vulcan, while “Not Ready For Prime-Time” Spock would concentrate on his career.

86. red dead ryan - August 4, 2011

#65.

“I was just thinking how interesting it would be if Star Trek ’09 was the last Star Trek movie ever. I’m not saying I WANT that, I’m just saying that it would be…fascinating.”

Well, judging by how slowly the writers are getting the script done, you may very well get your answer!

87. John from Cincinnati - August 4, 2011

New Spock should be training all remaining Vulcans on movie direction and how to reduce lens flares.

88. John from Cincinnati - August 4, 2011

81.

I echo your senitments. I LOATHED

the Spock-Uhura “relationship”
Budgineering

…and I will add…the iBridge!

89. Mortos Der Soul Stealer - August 4, 2011

I sincerely hope that they do drop the NuSpock/NuUhura thing. It was totally unnecessary and did absolutely nothing to help the already seriously flawed plot and story. Spock and Uhura never had anything even remotely resembling a romantic relationship in TOS. This was just another of Abrams’ “up yours” moments for loyal, long time TOS fans to let us know this isn’t “our” Star Trek anymore. It’s the same with the death of Amanda, destruction of Vulcan and Romulus, death of Kirk’s father, fuglification of the Enterprise, the utter dumbassedness of budgineering, and the bright and shiny iBridge. Folks, this ain’t our Trek anymore. Might as well get used to it.

90. Star Trek Sequel Fan Already - August 4, 2011

I agree with those who have mentioned that Spock Prime is on the job with the New Vulcan issue.

I like the Spock/Uhura relationship….but please. Keep it clean. The first film was great because it proved that movies can be spectacular without sex. I wouldn’t care if Spock and Uhura eventually got married (although probably not yet) but don’t make them screw around before the ceremony. Uhura is too smart for that and Spock is too logical for that….can’t really see that happening because of both of their natures.

91. Jack - August 4, 2011

90. What? It’s the 23rd century, not the 19th.

92. Jack - August 4, 2011

64. Good points.

Also, interesting that Leonard Nimoy liked the romance. didn’t Nichols too? I know, they’re actors not writers,

And, again, I’m hoping for a brand new adventure, not Aliens on New Vulcan.

And, Keachick, you’re right that some of those scenes were deleted. I still think the darned thing is sexist, but heck, I’m just a guy. The women had nothing to do. Well, i guess uhura overheard a transmission (while tracking solar systems) and understood it (and gossiped about it to her roommate while both were in their underwear, lucky Kirk was fooling around with her roommate, or the Enterprise would have been destroyed. heck, if he hadn’t been there they might have had a pillow fight) but did she report it?

93. red dead ryan - August 4, 2011

#90.

You want to see Spock and Uhura get married? Why? I’d rather see Spock remain Spock and Uhura remain Uhura. Man, some of these “ideas” that some fans come up with are mind boggling dumb!

Listen, the reason why J.J Abrams went back to the TOS characters was because everybody wanted to see the TOS characters again, as they come together for the first time. The last movie did that, its time that we see the characters behaving like their TOS counterparts even in spite of the different timeline and events each of the nu-versions experienced. The essence of these characters must be the same as what we saw during TOS. The point of the reboot was not to replace the original actors, but to capture the spirit of the original show as defined by the original actors and their characters. If not, then what was the point of bringing back the names of KIrk, Spock, McCoy, etc.? Because if you all want these characters to be different, then the writers might as well have just come up with entirely new ones.

The new “Star Trek” is a reboot of “The Original Series”. Its going to look different in terms of costumes, visual effects and set design. But there is one constant: The characters have to match.

94. Starfleet's Finest - August 4, 2011

One of my favorite parts of the commentary on the newest Trek was them describing the audience reaction to Spock and Uhura’s scene in the lift; ‘Destroying Vulcan was nothing in comparison to pairing up those two’ or something along those lines. Boy, did that ring true to me. I wasn’t crazy mad over it but I never really liked the idea and still don’t. But I guess there had to be some sort of romance and Kirk was WAY to obvious. And, I don’t remember in the movie if they mentioned much (or at all) but in the book Spock Prime told Kirk that the timeline was trying to fix itself, which is why they were all on the Enterprise. So by that reasoning should Nurse Chapel be introduced and her and Spock start their awkward tension? Just a thought, but my vote is to gracefully part the two.
And, I get where Mr. Quinto is coming from because the destruction of Vulcan was traumatic and devastating for Spock. But I would like to see them approach it as he is fighting his emotions, like guilt/sadness/anger/uncertainty, because he ISN’T helping the way he feels like he should and really trying to shut out his human side (which would be a nice segway into why he and Uhura aren’t together anymore…hint-hint). That way the next story line can move on but will still have the angst of Spock dealing with the loss of his mother and homeworld. Kinda like in the Naked Time, but on a bigger scale. Because I think it would be really hard for them to introduce the new Vulcan without bringing Mr. Nimoy back in. Dunno, that’s just my two cents…

95. Buzz Cagney - August 4, 2011

Assuming each one of the surviving Vulcans is happy and able to reproduce given that they only get ‘the urge’ once every 7 years it will take approximately a very, very long time to reach their pre-genocide number.
If there were a greater number of female survivors then it will obviously take a little less time but that will mean that every surviving male will have to spend all of his Pon-Farr year ‘at it’ as it were.
Interestingly I ran Pon-Farr through an online translator and it came back as Bruised Black and Blue.
The old Earth saying ‘at it like Rabbits’ will be replaced with ‘at it like a Vulcan’.
I don’t think we’ll be seeing much of Spock in the next one somehow!

96. sean - August 4, 2011

#77

The planet was not the important element. Spock had to return to Vulcan or die because *T’Pring* was on Vulcan, and he was telepathically linked to her. Just as he did not have to return to Vulcan in Star Trek 3, when Saavik, uhh…’took care’ of his Pon Farr urges. If Spock hadn’t been linked to T’Pring, Nurse Chapel could have done the job. The returning to Vulcan part seems like tradition more than anything else. Plus, we’ve seen other Vulcans deal with Pon Farr without Vulcan in Voyager. So the writers have no problems there, they’re perfectly within the established rules of the original universe.

97. sean - August 4, 2011

#93

Right, because when people get married they cease being human beings! Ya know, it’s like when Decker and Ilea merged with V’Ger, they turn into sentient cybernetic lifeforms on another plane of existence.

Or they’re just two individuals who are married, and will continue to be themselves, just married. But that’s probably just crazy talk.

98. Jack - August 4, 2011

Gripes about the story aside, I’m still big fan of Trek 09… the energy, the pace, the brightness, the freshness, the mix of comedy and emotion. I’m hoping they don’t heed everything we gripe about here. It’s interesting that the critics generally liked it (heck, even Roger Ebert praised its energy and its entertainment value in his review) but we tear the darned thing apart, regularly.

Yes, the making out on the transporter pad seemed out of character, but the guy’s planet had just been destroyed etc. and he was about to face near-certain death. It would have been more interesting if they’d had a friendship, or a teacher/student relationship that evolved once Vulcan had been destroyed… the movie doesn’t really make it clear, and heck, leaves it open to think that they’d been skronking for months.

99. Aurore - August 4, 2011

@ Roberto Orci.

” Man, some of these “ideas” that some fans come up with are mind boggling dumb!”

Sir, recently , on one of these boards, it has been said that “overall, the majority of fans didn’t know squat about how to write a good , popper script…”

Since the Spock and Nyota Uhura Romance was ( in part ) your idea, and, as a Star Trek fan ( and writer) , would you say that this assesment is correct ?
If so, what do you intend to do , in order to both improve your writing skills and impress your “detractors” with regards to the sequel?

I know you are busy (taking writing classes, maybe ? I feel your pain, trust me),nevertheless, I would very much appreciate an answer from you.

Thanks in anticipation for a prompt reply.

100. Aurore - August 4, 2011

popper script=propper script
assesment=assessment

I wasn’t joking when I told you that I felt your pain as far as writing was concerned…

101. Mel - August 4, 2011

Spock was practically a human, only with pointy ears in the last movie. They made his character “normal” and “non special”. His behaviour wasn’t in any way alien. He showed all kinds of emotions very openly; anger, sadness, love. There was no subtlety in regards to his emotions. I really hope, he will act more Vulcan in the next movie.

@ 92

I agree. The movie was really quite sexist. There were only very few female characters with “bigger” roles and all had typical female roles.

Uhura – girlfriend, love interest, sex object
Winona – wife, mother
Amanda – wife, mother
Gaila – bed partner, sex object

Only Uhura had also a few scenes, which were not about this. The others were complete cliche roles. And not all were even portrayed very positive. Kirk reported the transmission to Pine and not Uhura on her own. Winona Kirk is a bad mother, who left her son in the care of an idiot. Amanda at least tried to help her son, but it seems Sarek has the final saying in Spock’s upbringing. Gaila was only seen in bed.

And it is more than this. Most of the other smaller characters in power are men.

– Pike
– Captain Robau and his first officer Kirk
– Nero and his whole crew
– At the hearing after the Kobayashi Maru test, there are sitting 10 people in the middle of the committee. It looks like only 1-2 of them are women. Admiral Barnett, the one leading the hearing, is of course also a man.
– When Spock declined going to the Vulcan Science Academy, there are 7 Vulcans in the committee, only 2 are women and the one leading the hearing is of course again a man.
– There are 7 people in the cavern on Vulcan, who Spock tried to rescue. One of the people is Amanda and probably not really a Vulcan elder. Of the 6 Vulcan elder, only 1 is a women.

And of course only the female crew members are walking around with short miniskirts and without any rank insignia.

102. Mel - August 4, 2011

That should have been:

“Kirk reported the transmission to PIKE…”

103. noone - August 4, 2011

In Star Wars there are so much possibilitie, so just wait what Abrams will do! Eh, was not Star Wars? But how – without a Death Star – did they do that… with Vulkan? A black hole? That is such a great idea and now I do understand the absence of Yoda and the whole Jedis in the movie!

104. noone - August 4, 2011

When they will begin to make the movie, there will be fireworks over Endor ;)

105. Victor Hugo - August 4, 2011

75.

Well, Rick Berman also didn´t knew who Zefram Cochrane was, by the time they were writing “First Contact”, he actually thought Zefram was a girl, and that she was supposed to be Picard´s love interest.

Writers allow themselves to bend some rulebooks in order to give dynamics to a movie.

Zefram Cochrane was also an alien, not a north american human.
Picard wasn´t a cold blooded killer.
There was no Borg Queen.
World War 3 didn´t happened in 2053.
Borgs didn´t have time travel.
Data is not bulletproof.(he can be stabbed)
etc etc etc

106. N - August 4, 2011

Spock shouldn’t be obsessed with Race!

107. Adam C - August 4, 2011

Well after the destruction of Vulcan its left an emotional connection with me as least. I feel Spock prime can still play his role, as a rebuilder and a link to the previous universe.

108. Adam C - August 4, 2011

+ the previous film set Spock prime up they cant drop him now as much as they want too

109. Alientraveller - August 4, 2011

I’d like Spock and Uhura to get together: I know it’s technically not canon but I disliked how the novels had him marry Saavik because she was the only canonical Vulcan heroine. And Spock and Uhura could name their kid Tuvok. :)

110. Captain Kirks Toupe - August 4, 2011

It just occured to me, the Vulcans have no colony worlds? They all huddled on Vulcan and got wasted? There has to be millions+ out on the colony worlds and doing Vulcany stuff out in space…..

111. Rusty0918 - August 4, 2011

#101

Well, not ALL the female crewmembers were wearing miniskirts, there were definitely some in trousers, look closer. And there were some with rank insignia too.

Although I do agree, put another female senior crewmember on board. Perhpaps get Rosario Dawson in the mix as the Enterprise’s new chief of security (hey she wanted in) and of coure give her pants instead of the goofy miniskirt.

Another thing to point out. To assume that Spock and Uhura are having sex and popping out children just because there is some romance between the two is absurd. Love does NOT imply sex. Unless they mention it or we see it, I think making that assumption is arrogance.

Although I do agree, there wasn’t really much in meaning of that Spock/Uhura relationship. They did turn Uhura into the pining damsel pretty much with that. And she was basically nothing more but a sex object, despite how much you try to justify it.

112. Star Trek Sequel Fan Already - August 4, 2011

#93

Point taken. I do want the characters to behave like themselves. But then that means that Uhura needs to then act like the intelligent, professional that she is. I thought Spock was good (perhaps a little more human in this universe but I thought it was a nice new angle without damaging anything), but I thought Uhura could be a little more professional, with her mind focused on the job like the original series Uhura that Nichelle brilliantly portrayed. My point I guess is that I can’t see the Uhura that was portrayed in Star Trek 2009 staying that way and keeping true to the original character at the same time. She either needs to swing one way (this new relationship with Spock) or the other (be a little more professional).

I still don’t mind a little bit of Spock/Uhura here and there, but ultimately in the end I would sacrifice that a thousand times in order to keep the spirit of Star Trek alive in the way it should be, with the characters first true to themselves.

113. Star Trek Sequel Fan Already - August 4, 2011

#97

Amen. Thank you.

114. trekprincess - August 4, 2011

Why are you guys so obsessed with bashing the last film :/

115. John from Cincinnati - August 4, 2011

Everything that was good about ST09, the comedy, the dialogue, the essence of the characters is directly attributable to it’s outstanding writing.

Everything that’s bad about ST09, the design elements, Budgineering, iBridge, and lens flares can be directly attiributable to JJ Abrams.

116. Andrews - August 4, 2011

I don’t even want to read the comments here, because I’m sure they’re all full off the same “get rid of Spock/Uhura” b.s. and claims that the “real” Star Trek focused 95% on Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.

Go watch TOS if any change is so anathema to you, and leave the exciting new characterizations and interpretations to us open-minded folks. Infinite diversity in infinite combinations, that’s my motto. <3

117. somethoughts - August 4, 2011

#114

I think the majority of fans and viewers loved the last film, but nothing is perfect and fans and viewers simply comment on what they did not like and what would have made the movie better.

Fans are also upset that the script is not complete and that JJ has not committed in directing the sequel which was due out next summer that has now been delayed to 2013 because of Super 8 and C&A and a busy TV schedule. They are entitled to work on other projects but not at the cost of our beloved Trek!

118. Starbase Britain - August 4, 2011

To the writers, drop the spock/uhura thing.

Greg
UK

119. Aurore - August 4, 2011

“Another thing to point out. To assume that Spock and Uhura are having sex and popping out children just because there is some romance between the two is absurd. Love does NOT imply sex. Unless they mention it or we see it, I think making that assumption is arrogance.”

Love does not (always) imply sex, but, sometimes it does…
Thus, and, I can only speak for myself here of course , making the assumption (i.e., suppose ) that Spock and Nyota Uhura are having sex (or will ), and, could one day “popping out” children is my right . Not arrogance.

I, personally, don’t have to wait for anyone to mention or show any of these things ( to me). Since the movie doesn’t dwell on their relationship, much is left to the right to assume what we choose to . For instance, some, obviously, did not see the romance . I did .

In fact, I would argue that we are all entitled to our assumptions(inferences), for now at least, as long as we remember that, ultimately, only the writers,the director etc… will decide on what happens next to all the characters .

120. John in Canada, eh? - August 4, 2011

This brings to mind one of the few misfires (for me) of the first film: when Spock is told by Chekov that his planet has just minutes left, he (selfishly, in my opinion) heads to the surface to rescue his parents. His place, as acting Captain, was on the bridge. Leaving a 17-year old Ensign in charge during what should have been a rescue mission was irresponsible, and completely out of character of the Spock we know (or knew). We should have been seeing massive rescue operations, beaming up everyone they could – not Spock trying to save just a few elders who happened to include his parents.

Sure, it would have been difficult to let his parents die — but I seem to recall someone saying that the good of the many outweighs the good of the few.

121. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 4, 2011

If Uhura was a sex object because she appeared to be with Spock in every kind of way, then so was Spock a sex object.

If Gaila was a sex object of Kirk’s, then so was Kirk a sex object of Gaila’s.

I never heard either the two males or the two females say, let alone, scream No. In Gaila’s case, quite the contrary. In fact, she came off as someone more adept at “playing the field” than Kirk seemed to be.. Gaila – “Quick! She doesn’t like me bringing men back to the room.” Kirk – “Um. How many men have you brought back to the room?”

Men and women are sexual beings. Whether we admit it or not, we tend to ogle one another quite a lot, checking the other out. However, rarely are our curiosities and/or desires acted upon, which is probably quite fortunate.

It is hoped that all the bitching and moralising about how an ADULT instructor shouldn’t be *friendly* with an ADULT student would be consigned to the “Been there. Done that” closet by the time we reach the 23rd century, Star Trek style. So very tired.

122. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 4, 2011

#67 Amy – So I take it you know Chris Pine to know that he was merely playing himself, and to also know Zachary Quinto to know that he WAS NOT merely playing a version of himself, when he played Spock?

Where does this anger and nastiness come from? Good for you that you liked Zachary Quinto’s performance more than the other actors’ performances, but I do not think there is any need to slag off other actors or those who like them. People may find actors like Chris Pine or Karl Urban attractive and good looking, but that is not the only reason why they may like their performances.

I have never read anywhere where Chris Pine has ever been disrespectful or rude to any fan, whether they also be ST fans or not. In fact, everything I have read points to his behaviour being quite the opposite. He does not go to Star Trek Conventions (esp. those organised by Creation), but then neither have other actors who have appeared in either television or movies been either. Tom Hardy (Shinzon in Nemesis – he was great as that character) was heard to say that he is terrified/petrified to go to any kind of convention. I have never read that he has ever been rude or disrespectful to any of his many fans either.

Leave off, Amy. Not nice.

123. Christopher Roberts - August 4, 2011

I had issues with the movie seeing it for the first time. Too many, that boil down to my preconceptions of Trek and aspects JJ & team delighted in changing – characters, their personal histories gone, little visual things and a preference to take inspiration from outside the franchise in doing that etc etc. I’m still working on acceptance. It may or may not happen, depending how they stay the course and diverge away how Kirk, Spock ended up after the Original Series. The worst thing would be to try and merge it back now. That would be like admitting defeat and them saying “You know what? You’re right. We should’ve made Star Trek 2009 a traditional prequel, and worked as hard on staying true to hints about all that, as we did creating Nero to come in and take it out.” Accept it can’t be done now. Well, not all in one massive TNG/Voyager-style reset anyway.

My rambing aside… Spock in a relationship with Uhura? I had no problem with that. You could maybe see it happening in early Star Trek like “The Man Trap” or “Charlie X”. Would I have preferred it to be Christine Chapel? Unquestionably. But that’s my universe and a prequel I’d have expected to see.

124. VulcanFilmCritic - August 4, 2011

What is it Spock once said, that time is like a river. And perhaps when split in two as in alternate timelines it will try to repair itself.
Even thought this is a re-boot, I suspect that instead of smashing the old paradigms and characters we are going to move closer to them.

The Spock/Uhura thing is a set-up, and you can see a strange kind of intimacy between these two characters in TOS, which is not quite explained by the mere proximity of their workstations. I think Gene Roddenberry once suggested that something must have happened to Spock involving a woman. Something in his past. Maybe this is it.

Also there was a deleted scene in “Elaan of Troyis” in which there is a flirtation between Spock and Uhura which ends with Spock saying, “Vulcans have natural rhythm.” (see Star Trek 365, pp 281-282).
Also it was Spock who was supposed to kiss Uhura in “Plato’s Stepchildren” until William Shatner demanded that honor. So I don’t see any problem with showing a more emotional, more human Spock, at least at first. In the TV show we were never introduced to the characters, we don’t know their pasts, we just meet up with them when they are in their 30’s.

In the first pilot and in “The Menagerie” you do see a more emotive and excitable Spock. We obviously got a less emotional character by the second pilot as Number One was folded into Spock, but it might be fun to create a storyline that explains this transformation in the context of the drama.

Something is going to happen to these two which is going to bounce them back to a relationship that is more like that in TOS. Hopefully it will be something really, really tragic (as in “Casablanca.” )
I suspect that something Is going to be T’Pring who, just by chance, is one of the survivors.

And there is nothing more fascinating than watching a good catfight.
I would like to place might bets on that most righteous Black woman, Uhura, but I have the feeling that they will both end up losing Spock.

125. SoonerDave - August 4, 2011

@124

All the references you site – the subtle comment of Spock about Vulcans having “natural rhythm,” the vague suggestions about other relationships, are all at the core of the careful way the characters were, in general, drawn in TOS. That’s a sharp contrast to Uhura standing on the transporter platform while Spock grabs her butt and they swap spit. That’s a sharp contrast to the Uhura who leveraged her relationship with Spock to get moved to the Enterprise from the Farragut.

And trying to set things right by somehow, miraculously, making T’Pring a survivor of the Vulcan Abramsplosion – wherein she defies odds of 600,000:1 – that’s a writing cheat that fights against the very core that boborci and others have plainly stated here that there is “no going back.”

I say these things and it sounds like I don’t like the Abrams reboot, but I do. I liked the movie very much – heck, I saw it probably five times in the theater, and countless times on cable and my BluRay copy. I loved Captain Pike. I loved how Spock Prime was integrated, and his dialog was great. I loved Dr. McCoy. But did I like all of it? No. Didn’t like the score. I don’t like Budgineering – it looks stupid and old in the vein of Starfleet’s newest flagship. No, I don’t like the Dragsterprise, because it ignores the aesthetic that Roddenberry and his art designers insisted were worth preserving in the original series and movies. No, I don’t like Spock and Uhura playing smootchie in the turbolift *because that’s not Spock*. There’s so little Spock in this Spock that he loses some of the inherent nature that makes his conflicts with McCoy so delightful!

If you argue that these are reinterpretations of the classic characters, that’s fine, but if you depart from them so drastically that they bear little resemblance to the ones we knew, such that they are merely the same names in 60’s style tunics, what’s the point?

I am not a fan who blindly says that because it was Trek it was all good. I temper my enthusiasm with the reality that the movie was good, but had flaws, and can always hope the next iteration – when and if it ever comes – is better. If the recognition of the flaws makes me an unfaithful Trek fan, so be it. I’ll turn in my Spock ears at the table on the way out.

126. Hermioni - August 4, 2011

Off Topic: @ #121. Keachick (rose pinenut) – August 4, 2011

“… Men and women are sexual beings. …”

Keachick, given the lack of any direct communication on this board between the two of us up to this moment, the following might seem quite strange to you, but let me get extraordinarily personal just this once in order to speak up for myself. To be honest, I would feel a lot more comfortable if the sentence above would read as: Most adults (but not all) are sexual beings. …

127. ster j - August 4, 2011

Would the “pure” Vulcans even *want* half-breed Spock to sully the gene pool? There’s the real tension, imho.

But if the Vulcans *can* get over themselves and their prejudices, then I have a three word plot outline for the next film:

Uhura
T’Pring
Catfight!

128. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 4, 2011

#124 – “That’s a sharp contrast to Uhura standing on the transporter platform while Spock grabs her butt and they swap spit. That’s a sharp contrast to the Uhura who leveraged her relationship with Spock to get moved to the Enterprise from the Farragut.”

Wow. That is such an asinine comment. If this comment represents all you managed to understand, then I feel sorry for you. What I remember seeing is Spock placing a hand gently on her butt. I guess if you prefer to use the words “swap spit” as opposed to the word “kissing”, then that is your prerogative but it does sully the actual scene somewhat and unfairly so.

Uhura did not use what personal relationship she may have with Spock to get moved from the Farragut to the Enterprise. It was actually Spock who was discriminating against her so as not like he appeared to be showing her favouritism. She was standing up to what she believed was rightfully hers and he agreed and corrected his mistake. If there had been no relationship hinted of any kind, Spock would have automatically assigned Uhura to the Enterprise, not the Farragut, because they both knew that is where she belonged.

How is this so hard for people to understand?

129. Odkin - August 4, 2011

@Keachick-

Please, for the love of all that is holy, never take up screenwriting. You keep defending ST09 like it was actually well-written, which except for the Kelvin introduction, it was not. Your need to explain the movie over and over to people sort of proves that.

You sound like someone who keeps repeating a joke and asking why we don’t “get it”… WE GET IT. It just ain’t funny.

130. Aurore - August 5, 2011

119. Correction .

could “popping out” = could be “popping out” .

131. VulcanFilmCritic - August 5, 2011

@125 Sooner Dave. Hey, no one ever accused JJ Abrams & Co. of subtlety. ST 09 is grade B moviemaking at it’s finest! [Heck, anything that drags Mr. Nimoy away from that damn darkroom and puts him into a pair of foam rubber ears, I'm all for.]

I agree. The overly demonstrative “kiss on the transporter pad” was a bit much; all Spock had to do was mention Uhura’s first name in order to suggest some intimacy. But I think the Boys kinda like smashing things to bits and”blowing up stuff real good,” so character development can take a back seat.

As for who this new Spock is, I don’t know. He seems to be the nightmare projection of suburban kids who’ve never done very much except sit at home watching grade B movies directed by Steven Spielberg and play with computers , so being bullied by other children is their greatest fear.
In Spock, this fear is so great that even as an almost fully grown man he is too chicken to face the distain of some old farts at the Vulcan Science Academy, rather than pursue a career in science on his home planet! I too think that (on paper) this Spock is pretty lame.

However, Zachary Quinto imbues him with a twitchy, uptight fussiness that is kind of amusing when you compare him to the elegant, erudite, bad-ass Spock we grew up with. It will be interesting to see whether this new character can grow a backbone and become cool.

In all fairness to Mr. Quinto, though, we’ve only had about 90 minutes of him. What would we conclude from Leonard Nimoy’s first 90 minutes as Spock?

132. TrekMadeMeWonder - August 5, 2011

Unbelievable.

It’s been demonstrated many times in Trek that TimeTravel IS POSSIBLE.

I guess it’s not logical to just go back and fix things.

Trek just keeps getting dumber and dumber..

133. Denise de Arman - August 5, 2011

Keachick #121- In response to your comment about the “bitching and moralizing” concerning an adult instructor and an adult student

Wow. Where do I begin… does the term “common sense” mean anything to you? Say, for instance, a tenured professsor at a college gets involved with an adult student and it is found out. Guess what happens? Even though he has been at the college for many years, he gets fired because it is part of the STANDARD contract he signs with the institution. It happened at my college, and I would imagine, others too numerous to count. There is a reason behind that, several as a matter of fact:

1) No college wants to be open to a sexual harrasment lawsuit from a student because an instructor stepped over the line between professional and non-professional (know anyone in Human Resources with ANY company? This is the number one taboo HR departments deal with, and they require employees to attend seminars within the company to steer them away from office romances
so the company will not have to shell out money to a claimant because a boss could not control his/her libedo. Have you EVER been out in the work force at all? This aspect of human nature is not likely to change by the 23rd century…).

2) Most obviously, no college wants an instructor to get involved with a student and readjust their grades. I would say DUH here, but I am too polite for that… This is the first thing the university looks at when a professor/student relationship is found out – it is ASSUMED that readjusting of the student’s grades occured, making the university open to lawsuits from any other student in the same classroom with that professor and student.

3) Lowering of the professional wall between professor and student cripples the reason for the student being in that classroom – the intent to learn. The exchanging of knowledge between a professor and a student is a sacred trust, a symbiotic relationship that has been sacrosanct since Plato taught his first students gathered around the ground at his feet. This reason, most of all, is what I take issue with regarding the writers’ depiction of Spock’s character motivations in the last film. Spock’s intentions, behavior and moral code in TOS were ALWAYS beyond reproach, and the writers’ brushstrokes on his character’s canvas rendered him almost unrecognizable as being the same person.

I have not even touched on the fact, in what has become a tome of great length here, that ANY military academy in the world now has their own rules and regulations in place for dealing with a professor/ student relationship, reprimand and dismissal from said academy for the professor (including loss of his pension) being the lightest sentence, courtmartial and possible imprisonment in a military prison being the most severe. Starfleet Academy in the Star Trek universe is the most prestigous, and surely the most disciplined military academy on the planet (IMHO). Do you honestly think, Keachick, that human nature, with its inherant flaws and follibles, would change so dramatically by the 23rd century that these same restrictions would not need to be in place in this illustrious military setting?

“BItching” and “moralizing” aside, the writers of the last ST movie obviously were either woefully ignorant concerning military protocal and its importance in an academy setting, or just unconcerned with the inherant morality of Spock’s character – probably a mixture of the two. If I personally were so naive and/or ignorant as to overlook these glaring flaws in their treatment of ST, I would later look back and be embarrased at my tremendous lack of insight. AND since this IS an open forum for any and all to comment on concerning the topic at hand, think I will take advantage of my freedom of speech…

134. Aashlee - August 5, 2011

@131 “…In Spock, this fear is so great that even as an almost fully grown man he is too chicken to face the distain of some old farts at the Vulcan Science Academy, rather than pursue a career in science on his home planet! I too think that (on paper) this Spock is pretty lame.

However, Zachary Quinto imbues him with a twitchy, uptight fussiness that is kind of amusing when you compare him to the elegant, erudite, bad-ass Spock we grew up with. It will be interesting to see whether this new character can grow a backbone and become cool….”

Hi! Respectfully, I have to disagree with your opinions.

When nuSpock decided not to pursue the VSA career path, it was from a position of strength. It was illogical for him to submit himself to an institution where clearly he would NOT be judged solely by his accomplishments. Why waste the effort? His Terran heritage was always going to be a factor, no matter what. He decided that he wasn’t going to put up with that kind of garbage (Why should he? I wouldn’t.), so he chose another path that, though probably not perfect either, would be a better fit. From a professional standpoint, he knows his worth. He refuses to be treated as second-class. There was no chickening out here.

Also, I disagree that TOS Spock was entirely elegant and erudite all the time. He was absolutely uptight and twitchy anytime something poked at his emotions. And, like nuSpock, he was a momma’s boy. Unlike a Terran momma’s boy, however, culturally he was forbidden from expressing his undying attachment and (dare I say it?) love. He was very expressive with Amanda in “Journey to Babel” when she urges him to undergo the blood transfusion. Then, after she slapped him and exited, he was clearly hurt.

“Star Trek” (2009) was full of cataclysmic events that would have made anyone twitchy. We didn’t get to see nuSpock doing his science officer thing, so we didn’t get to see his elegant and erudite side. Maybe we will next time.

Also, to address a criticism earlier in this thread: Spock’s beaming down to save the elders was not a selfish decision. Yes, his parents were there, but he was also saving “the essence” of Vulcan culture and thought, which was contained within these same elders. (Surak’s katra, too, perhaps?) If a Vulcan civilization was going to be restored elsewhere, nuSpock knew that the “essence” he needed to save was essential to reestablishment. And he was the one who needed to go deep within the Katric Ark, as no one else on board knew anything about it. It was worth the risk.

Spock/Uhura? I liked it, and I don’t want it to break up. As much as Uhura will provide insight into Spock, he can, in turn, provide insight into her. However, I do not want the movies to have their relationship as a primary focus. This is not an intergalactic romance flick–it’s action/adventure sprinkled with nuggets of thought and introspection on the human condition and evolution. I think that Uhura will not take away from The Triumvirate; she can enhance it if her character is used correctly, and she, herself, can bring something to the whole Star Trek genre.

It would help if the writers would provide some more information/clues about how this relationship came about. I’d like to know, too. It might help settle a few ruffled feathers is people knew what was behind it.

I enjoyed the first movie; I look forward to the next. :-)

135. VulcanFilmCritic - August 5, 2011

A respectful rebuttal:
134. Aashlee : “When nuSpock decided not to pursue the VSA career path, it was from a position of strength. It was illogical for him to submit himself to an institution where clearly he would NOT be judged solely by his accomplishments. Why waste the effort? His Terran heritage was always going to be a factor, no matter what. He decided that he wasn’t going to put up with that kind of garbage (Why should he? I wouldn’t.)”

Well in the 1960’s I and many minorities did! We had to cross picket lines and put up with racial epithets every day in order to get an education at the institutions of our choice. And you know what? It wasn’t the end of the world and we got the lives and the careers we wanted.

And it wasn’t just minorities. My professors were mostly Jewish and they told me such stories about virulent anti-Semitism in many waspy bastions of higher education. And some of my friends who are Italian told me stories about what their parents went through to get an education. Indians of the “wrong” caste or “wrong” religion were often steered away from pursuing a career in science and medicine in India. And yet they did. Holding your head up high despite the prejudice of others is what I call heroic. To someone like me, nuSpock’s decision in ST 09 is an act of cowardice, and unbefitting someone who has supposedly spent a lifetime learning to master his feelings.

We were never told why classic Spock chose to go to Starfleet Academy rather than the VSA, but it couldn’t be just pride. For our Spock was subjected to far more racial animus in Starfleet than he ever would be on Vulcan. McCoy had a somewhat gleeful Archie Bunker like attitude towards the Vulcan, but Stiles in “Balance of Terror” was just a flat out bigot. Spock was the first non-Terran to cross the species line at Starfleet and we certainly could identify with Spock’s experience back then.
It’s obvious that Gene Roddenberry intended for Spock to be the Sidney Poitier of the show.

I suspect that classic Spock’s reasons for choosing to enter Starfleet had more to do with self-actualization, getting out from under his parents, the romance of space exploration, seeing and experiencing what was reduced to dry equations and theories on Vulcan, and just plain kicks than fear of second-class status.

I totally agree with you that classic Spock could be twitchy at times but nuSpock is always twitchy and uptight. Just look at the tension in Zachary Quinto’s mouth and neck. For Nimoy the tension is in his forehead muscles. The brow is always knitted in an expression of deep thought, but the lower portion of his face is relaxed, almost mask-like. It is a brilliant piece of Kabuki theater on the part of both actors.

Stanislavski has written about this in “Building A Character.” An actor has to signal to the audience, who his character is, and in the theater he has only a few seconds to do it. I think it’s interesting that Quinto has decided to have his own take on the character and not try to recreate what Nimoy did.

One actor is portraying a Spock who is an old hand, more comfortable in his skin. The other has not yet found his place and is very, very insecure. Our Spock would never get emotional and jettison Kirk from the ship because he can’t handle command. It will be interesting to see whether the writers at Bad Robot keeps the character in twitchy mode or allow him to assume a more cool demeanor.

136. Aashlee - August 5, 2011

@135 Thank you for your respectful reply! Yes, given your history and experiences, I can see your point of view. However, as you said, if you wanted a particular level of education or career, you HAD to get into certain institutions, the same ones that were barring you.

nuSpock, however, had the choices that you may not have had. He applied at two institutions–the VSA and Starfleet Academy–that both offered him a pathway to get the kind of career he wanted. When it was clear to him that there were elements of the VSA that would always judge him by his heritage, he simply chose the other top-notch option. In his rejection of the VSA, he made a statement about what he thought of his homeworld’s bigotry.

Again, I don’t think there was cowardice involved. Indeed, nuSpock had to realize that he just initiated some serious fallout because of his choice. As the minister said, no one had ever rejected an offer of admission. This was serious stuff.

I agree with you about the different motivations between nuSpock and TOS Spock. TOS Spock surely was trying to get out on his own, away from his imperious father’s smothering. nuSarek seemed to support nuSpock’s need to find balance between his two heritages, so that motivation seemed absent for nuSpock. An interesting difference!

The 2009 movie was one big series of twitchy situations, so we didn’t get to see nuSpock in more usual circumstances. As Quinto said, in this movie Spock was “not quite himself.” It will be interesting to see how Quinto interprets the character when nuSpock has an opportunity to *be* himself. Hmmm….

I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when Nimoy and Quinto were talking about Quinto’s portrayal of that character. ;-)

137. VulcanFilmCritic - August 5, 2011

Another thought occurred to me regarding Spock’s mixed heritage. i was listened to a CD called “Inside Star Trek” (not the Justman/Solow book) which was packaged as a double feature with the TMP soundtrack.
In it Gene Roddenberry interviews Mark Lenard who is in character as Sarak.

He describes how difficult Spock’s birth was and what a difficult pregnancy it was for Amanda. Spock as a fetus had to spend time in a specially designed incubator for part of the pregnancy just to survive.
What can be done to treat infertility today was unimaginable in the 1960’s and such things as egg donation are pretty routine today.

What if it turns out that Spock isn’t really half human at all? What if he is the product of an egg donation from a Vulcan woman and Amanda merely carried him? The only hard evidence that we have that Spock is immunologically part human is in “Journey to Babel” where Nurse Chapel says that his blood has certain “human elements.” Perhaps they are just antigens in common with humans and not indicative of being a true hybrid?

If you look at him, he doesn’t look at all like a hybrid, he looks purely Vulcan. As Amanda says in that episode, “Is there no part of me that I can still reach?” It’s almost as if she’s looking at him and saying, “Is there no part of me in you at all?”

How would Spock react to that news? All this tsuris that he’s gone through over his mixed ancestry would be for naught. How would he now view the humans around him? Uhura included.

Now what if being invited to re-populate the race is considered a high honor, indicating genetic fitness? Spock being tested would of course assume that being a hydrid he’d be unfit, but what if that’s how he finds out that he’s pure Vulcan? Amanda’s dead. How would he now feel about his own mother?

Would Spock want to participate embracing this new identity of being pure Vulcan and possibly becoming alienated from his second family? Would he try to hide it and continue in the hybrid identity that is familiar to him?

And what if some Vulcan woman shows up stating that she’s his mother? is she crazy or telling the truth?Would he even take the test to find out?

Just food for thought.

138. somethoughts - August 5, 2011

Vulcans have developed technology to recreate every lost soul, bringing their soul back into cloned vulcan bodies of original including recreated synthesized memories.

Ethical dillema is does kirk or spock want to recreate their lost parent in such a fashion as this comes at a high cost.

139. Aashlee - August 5, 2011

@137 That has the makings of a very interesting fan fiction story, don’t you think? Wow! That would shake his whole identity crisis into a whole other identity crisis. And wouldn’t it say something about the idiocy of the bigotry he’s faced all his life?

140. dmduncan - August 5, 2011

The Clint Eastwood impression creates some room for growth to happen in the Spock character.

141. Aurore - August 5, 2011

Correction .100 .

popper script = propper script = proper script.

:)

142. Roel - August 5, 2011

Part of StarTrek is history retold. in the background modern history plays a role like the coldwar background comes through in the 70th.

What to consider the destruction of Bagdad by Timor Lenk (Tamarlane) setting equal to Vulcans destruction. You have a power vacuum an incoming invasion stopped by an army of child soldiers (Mammeluk) which officers did not have a miltiary academy left and still hold the line at Ayn Jalut (wink to the valley of oaks or Valley of Elah). No way they ever go back to building Pyramids

First Earth and the Federation has no clue about the real role of Vulcan covering the lit on destruction playing a very important part in the hidden galactical balance. Now earth has to take over that role.

This might be an enemy that can not be photontorpedoot but expects from mankind to “grow up”

The timeline is engineer-magician-priest . The one who builds the computers, the one who still can switch them on and go online and those who put candles in front of the screen.

143. Mel - August 5, 2011

@ 111. Rusty0918

“Well, not ALL the female crewmembers were wearing miniskirts, there were definitely some in trousers, look closer. And there were some with rank insignia too.

Although I do agree, put another female senior crewmember on board. Perhpaps get Rosario Dawson in the mix as the Enterprise’s new chief of security (hey she wanted in) and of coure give her pants instead of the goofy miniskirt.”

I think my sentence was unclear. I meant that none of the men are showing their legs. They all wear long trousers. They also have all rank insignia (Kirk is an exception, because he is not suppose to be there.). So if a person is showing their legs or is missing a rank insignia, because of very short sleeves (for example Uhura), it is a woman.

I also wrote on this site before, that a female security chief would be a good idea. We haven’t one yet and that is a role, which can easily be used in most story plots.

@ 121 Keachick

“If Uhura was a sex object because she appeared to be with Spock in every kind of way, then so was Spock a sex object.

If Gaila was a sex object of Kirk’s, then so was Kirk a sex object of Gaila’s.”

No, Uhura isn’t a sex object, because she appeared with Spock. She is a sex object, because she wears for a large part of her screen time a uniform, which showed most of her legs and arms. The high black boots adds to the sexiness. That uniform is not in the least practical. Uhura wears it, so that she looks sexy. And there is also her bra scene in her cabin.

Spock does not even show once his legs or upper part of his body naked. None of his clothes are particular sexy or revealing.

Gaila has only one real scene and she only wears underwear in it.

Kirk shows in one scene a lot of skin, BUT he has tons of other scenes, in which he is completely covered. So it is only a drop in a bucket. If he had more similar scenes or would have lost his uniform top a few times, he would be a male sex object, but one scene out of a lot of others, is not enough for this.

A sex object is for me a person in a movie, which shows a lot of skin for a big part of her or his screen time. That is my personal definition. Others may define it different.

144. Rusty0918 - August 5, 2011

#143 –

Thanks Mel. Not to mention the scene where Kirk accidentally gropes her.

145. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 5, 2011

#143 – Holy crappola! So you equate the sight of skin with sex or someone wishing to be seen as a sex object? That is just downright insulting to everything that is true and human. Why can’t people get past insulting and denigrating our (near) naked humanity? We desperately NEED to grow up!!!

Uhura barely showed any skin at all. All we saw were her face and hair and parts of her arms. The rest of her body was covered by a uniform, dark tights and boots. The fact that YOU may find that outfit sexually exciting/stimulating has nothing to do with her and her motivations. At this rate, next I will be hearing is that…”She was asking for it…” because that is where this kind of thinking leads. Enough already!

Some of you behave as if the (naked) human body and any expression of sexuality is a bad thing. THEY ARE NOT!

#131 The assumption that everyone makes is that Uhura and Spock were together (possibly romantically/sexually) while Spock was her instructor. The reality is that we do not know this for a fact. We also do not know just how intimate Spock and Uhura are when we meet them on the Enterprise turbolift just after Vulcan had been destroyed. For all we know, that may have been the first kiss exchanged between them. Kissing can also be consoling; not just an encore to sexual relations.

The only things we do know about Spock and Uhura are (a) he had been one of her many instructors at the Starfleet Academy at some point, and (b) they had become good friends/confidantes.

Perhaps I am naive; perhaps I am hopeful that people in the future will have a better understanding of themselves and others; that they may imbue a greater sense of honesty, justice and fairness as essential parts of their natures.

Star Trek is a fictional universe dealing with what may happen 200+ years from now, not what necessarily goes on today…

146. dmduncan - August 5, 2011

I like the idea that the different sexes distinguish themselves stylistically by dressing differently. I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. It’s just one of the ways that men and women have expressed their differences throughout the ages, except perhaps in old Maoist China, and I don’t think we want the future of Star Trek to be depicted like that. It is not an embarrassment that men and women are different as if that were something to hide by dressing everyone the same way, and any enlightened future is bound to recognize that reality.

If anything I would hope to see more uniform options, not less. Aboard ship Uhura might like the mini red skirt, but on a freezing cold planet I would assume there exists other uniform choices for her. Only in the cartooniverse of low budget Trek on TV do characters always wear the same thing, and I was hoping to get away from that standard since Trek is big budget now.

147. VulcanFilmCritic - August 5, 2011

@139Aashley. Fan fiction? Hmmmmmmmm…sounds like fun.
( i prefer “gen” stuff anyway, not “slash.”)

148. Let Them Eat Plomeek Soup - August 5, 2011

vaguely @19:

It doesn’t make any sense to me that Vulcans would be against diluting their race. What happened to all this IDIC stuff they blab about? I guess it’s alright to say your tolerant of other races, but as soon as it actually happens…oh no, you have to go ragging on the human.

Why must we always be the inferior race? *sighs*

Oh well, I suppose since they now only have 10,000 left of their population, they want to have the blood as pure as possible…

@145:

Mm-hm, yes, I suppose kissing can be consoling and not an encore to sexual relations…especially necking in the turbolift, and making out on the transporter pad…

O_o

149. Roel - August 5, 2011

Until now we have seen mindmelt as an act of maximum a pair. However the mindmelt of 12 or more on Vulcan was an act of defence.
The human race is not inferior, more incapable in the sense they are like rabbits in the park. They know rats, mice, cats dogs. Vulcans are rabbits in the hills they also know fox, lions, snakes and eagles. The almost destructive use of logic on social-emotional intercourse is like the spines of a hedgehogh. But outside the park you need them. Now with Vulcan gone, the defenceshield build up by group mindmelt is failing and humans must join defences. Humans are not inferior but if you want to leave the park and live in the hills you must know what you wish fore.

150. Mel - August 6, 2011

@ 145 Keachick

Have you ever worn a miniskirt? I have it tons of times and definitely not because it was practical in any way. You can’t sit with a miniskirt in every way you want, if you don’t want to show everyone your panties. You have to sit in a certain way. The same is true when you have to bend down, for example to get something from the floor. Trousers and shorts are much more practical.

If they had to beam down to a planet fast (no time to change the clothes), it is also no protection against colder temperature and insect bites. You can also much easier scratch you skin than with long trousers.

In addition to that I wonder what is the temperature on the Enterprise? The male characters wear all long trousers, long sleeved undershirts and long sleeved colourful uniform tops and none of them seem to sweat. On the other hand all those less covered women don’t seem to freeze, although at least human women freeze easier and faster than human men. Isn’t that strange?

If the temperature is warm enough, so that tons of women are not freezing in their short uniforms, why is none of the men wearing shorts/miniskirts and a uniform top without sleeves? Some of the human men had to sweat in all their long clothes! Why is none of the men showing their muscular legs and arms? McCoy definitely has the body for it!

If the movie makers would objectify men and women equally, then the short uniforms of the women wouldn’t make the movie more sexist. BUT like tons of other movies, practically only women are seen with few clothes on or in short sexy outfits.

Don’t you see the double standard here? Why are men treated so differently? Why aren’t they wearing sexy outfits? Why aren’t they showing more skin?

A movie is sexist, when there is no equality between men and women. When there are much more male characters than female. When most of the characters in power are men. When nearly only the sexiness of women is accentuated and not the ones of men.

You had really completely missed the point I made!

151. Aurore - August 6, 2011

146. dmduncan – August 5, 2011
“I like the idea that the different sexes distinguish themselves stylistically by dressing differently. I see absolutely nothing wrong with it .”

Neither do I .

“If anything I would hope to see more uniform options, not less. Aboard ship Uhura might like the mini red skirt, but on a freezing cold planet I would assume there exists other uniform choices for her.”

Yes. I sure hope so , as well .

152. Grace M. Lenihan - August 6, 2011

How can Vulcans return to their planet every 7 years to mate, if it no longer exists? WIll Spock Prime be able to find a a suitable planet for colonization with that quality? remember T’Pring never made a move to come to Spock , he had to go to her and could have died in the process? Also, what happened to all those Vulcans joined at the mind at age 7 to their prospective mates? Their will need to be a lot of new engagements even before the Pon Farrrs take place. Hopefully JJ will answer a few of these questins in the sequel.

153. dmduncan - August 6, 2011

150: “You can’t sit with a miniskirt in every way you want, if you don’t want to show everyone your panties.”

The TOS red skirt uniform was more like an ice skater’s skirt. I don’t know what you call that but they have their own built in butt and crotch cover so the woman wearing one doesn’t expose her privates anymore than an ice skater does when she kicks her leg way up over her head.

151. Aurore – August 6, 2011

:-)

154. oldtrekgeezer - August 6, 2011

#21: yes! i agree with Red…

Based on what worked for Uhura, the best way to get more screen time for McCoy is for he and Kirk to be boyfriends…*grin*

McCoy doesn’t need to be the center of attn (although, hey, a spin-off, “McCoy, MD, Space Doctor”, might be cool, esp. if he made house calls), but given the scant time devoted to him in ST:09, some McCoy fans are understandably worried that he’s been supplanted. We need more of him, not less, because his positive traits–compassion, empathy, humor, loyalty, blah, blah–are more needed than ever. He’s nonviolent, and he’s a refreshing change from macho posturing in trek (see “Bread and Circuses”, e.g.).

155. Phil - August 6, 2011

Gee, are we back to debating the practicality of the womens mini skirt day uniform is? TOS always seemed to be exploring tropical planets, so the away mission uniform still ended up being the go go skirt – not affording much protection, but, damn, they looked good. I won’t be taking any bets that the red mini is going away any time soon, but I have yet to hear anyone offer a plausible explaination for it as a functional service uniform. It just isn’t.

156. Aurore - August 6, 2011

Make it a pair of (red mini) culottes :

http://caseykoester.wordpress.com/2011/07/05/oh-culottes/

“Problem” solved .

Right ?

:)

157. Phil - August 6, 2011

@156. Not bad. If I may make an observation, in todays world where both uniformed sexes work side by side, the day uniforms tend to be very similar – police, fire, medical, military all seem to see the need for functionality. It’s the dress or parade uniforms where you see pants for the guys and skirts for the women. I don’t see why if it works now, why whould it be abandoned in the future for something less practical.

158. TrekMadeMeWonder - August 6, 2011

Man. My Star Trek geekdom sank to a new low after your link, Aurore.

But don’t get me wrong. I don’t regret it. To understand the relevance of your post makes me all the geekier.

159. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 6, 2011

Kirk, Spock and co. should be wearing short-sleeves, unless of course, guys do feel the cold slightly more than women. Healthy women naturally carry more fat than healthy men.

I’ve come back from a local parish church mass and believe me there are a tremendous variety of colours, sizes and shapes, as well as ages, of females attending. The dress also varies. Women wear long skirts and dresses, short skirts and dresses, dark tights and leggings (they can be VERY warm, btw), pants and jeans. Some are brightly coloured, others not so much. The shoes varied also – low/no heel shoes and boots, moderately sized heels in both shoes and boots, and some who wore shoes or boots with very high heels. Accessories went from some wearing none to others wearing a lot of accessories and everything in between.

The fact of the matter was that more skin could be seen showing on the females overall than on the men. Curious since this is the middle of our winter and it has been snowing down south and the Antarctic southerly winds have been/are in force. It is a bit milder today.

There is less variation for guys, with some Polynesian men wearing what to modern westerners looks like a skirt, but totally acceptable male dress within their own culture.

As far as practicality, what some of the women were wearing clearly would not work that well for a Lt Uhura, but much of it would. The dress was functional and feminine. A scene near the end of the movie showed Lt Uhura running through the Enterprise corridors in those dastardly boots and mini-skirt and apparently having no problem at all. (In fact I recall reading a post somewhere (not this site, I don’t think) complaining that was all she seemed to be doing – skirt and boots…go figure…:))

However, given that they were attending a religious service, I doubt that notions of sexiness was on top of their priorities, nor would they necessarily have been for anyone else. They just wanted to look their best.

160. Aurore - August 7, 2011

“Man. My Star Trek geekdom sank to a new low after your link, Aurore.

But don’t get me wrong. I don’t regret it. To understand the relevance of your post makes me all the geekier.”

You’re most welcome TrekMadeMeWonder,

My…. understanding of your “Star Trek geekdom” reached new heights after reading some of your recent posts.

But, don’t get me wrong. I have no regrets. To understand the relevance of these posts makes me all the more grateful to know who is in charge of the Star Trek movie franchise, these days…

161. Aurore - August 7, 2011

” It’s the dress or parade uniforms where you see pants for the guys and skirts for the women.”

Thanks, Phil .
I hadn’t thought of that . Good points.

162. dmduncan - August 7, 2011

And in controlled environments like the Pentagon (or board a Starship), you will see people wearing a level of dress uniform. There are several levels of dress uniform, by the way, so women wearing skirts in the military occurs during regular working hours as well. It all depends on the duty post. It’s not like they are wearing skirts for special occasions and camouflage utilities the rest of the time.

Also, what folks like Phil forget is that the notion of utility is rather nebulous. Are you going to tell me that the clothing of the near naked Amazon Indian whose environment is far more hostile on a daily basis than some desk bound soldier on a base in North Carolina is not wearing clothing with any utilitarian value?

Clothing is not just a response to environment, it’s an expression of social custom and individual style. There is absolutely nothing utilitarian about a suit and tie (the tie is one of the silliest looking “utility”-less pieces of cloth ever invented for men to wear), especially on blazing hot summer days, but even in the controlled environment of the air conditioned office building.

The suit and tie is a uniform that expresses obedience to the regimentation of corporate values, and not much more.

So in an enlightened future that has a greater respect for individuality I’d expect more choices to be incorporated into uniform decisions, not less. The fewer choices you have the more regimentation that indicates, and I see Starfleet more as paramilitary rather than as strictly military.

163. Aurore - August 7, 2011

158. TrekMadeMeWonder.

Why can’t I help being mean to you?
I must be trying to hide my true feelings (of love) for you…or something…

:)

164. Aurore - August 7, 2011

Phil,

If you have a few minutes, I would very much like to read your opinion on dmduncan’s post (@162) . According to me, he made a series of good points . Although, I might be biased in my assessment , since I LOVE the red mini .

After your reply, I could make up my mind for good , on the matter of the red mini ( which I LOVE , did I mention that, already? ).

I would then, be in a position to advise Mr. Orci on what Uhura must wear in the sequel.

He’s waiting for my insight . As usual .

165. dmduncan - August 7, 2011

An astronaut floating around in space is one thing. He needs an airtight space suit to survive. But humans are wonderfully adaptive beings who can tolerate a range of environmental conditions wearing different styles of clothing. It’s not a simplistic matter of proclaiming that more clothing is always better, so cover those legs! The protection clothing gives you is often minimal while it restricts your flexibility which can at times be more relevant to your well being than a flimsy second skin.

So situation is always important, and as that is always changing it is impossible to establish the “most” utilitarian uniform. There’s no simple formula for establishing uniform utility. You need clothes for the occasion, and the environment of a starship depends on very tight and reliable environmental controls for the crew to survive in space at all, so when I see women in space wearing mini skirts I see a people so confident in their technology that they can afford to transfer their landlubbing social / fashion norms to outer space.

166. Mel - August 7, 2011

@ 159

“Kirk, Spock and co. should be wearing short-sleeves, unless of course, guys do feel the cold slightly more than women. Healthy women naturally carry more fat than healthy men.”

Yes, some of the male characters should also show more skin, not only the women all the time! Although in Spock’s case it makes sense, that he has more clothes on than the human characters. He comes from a very hot planet and is used to higher temperatures.

It is by the way a biological fact, that women freeze on average faster than men. The amount of fat is quite irrelevant in this regard. Muscles are a main source of body heat. Men have usually much more muscles than women, which produce heat. Women have also a bigger skin surface in relation to their body mass. So the cold has a bigger attack surface and women lose body heat easier. And the skin itself is different of men and women. Men have a thicker skin than women, which protects them better against the cold.

167. Aurore - August 7, 2011

165. dmduncan – August 7, 2011

In any case, I think they should consider pairing the skirt with stockings, tights or leggings. By the way , look what I found in Memory Alpha :

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Starfleet_uniform_(2265-2270s)#Female_uniform

“Female crewmembers could choose between a standard uniform with pants, or a one-piece uniform that continued down into a short skirt over matching high cut shorts, worn with black pantyhose and boots.”

168. dmduncan - August 7, 2011

167. Aurore – August 7, 2011

In The Cage the women wore pants. Sally Kellerman wore pants for her part in WNMHGB.

169. Aurore - August 7, 2011

…So…all this time, Uhura could have worn a standard uniform with pants, but , she *chose* the one-piece uniform…

That’s my story and I’m sticking to it .

170. Aurore - August 7, 2011

“Fascinating”…….

http://forums.startreknewvoyages.com/index.php?topic=11607.0

171. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 7, 2011

I assume that current fashion for women here is much the same in the US and other western nations. Leggings and thick denier tights are the norm with skirts, dresses, tunics and (tee)shirts of varying lengths worn over the top. Such combinations are often practical, fashionable and feminine. Make for great female Starfleet uniforms. It allows for individual style and variation. Perhaps what gets regulated is the colour. In Lt Uhura’s case, she wears any kind of combination of red and black, with relevant insignia and rank pinned or sewn into the upper part of the garment around the neck line, the shoulders or arms.

In a controlled environment of the Enterprise, there would be no reason why the men would always have to wear long sleeves and/or long pants. Variation could exist here as well, with colour being the regulating factor.

Footwear would also not necessarily need regulating. In fact, why wear boots/shoes (closed toed) at all? Just make for hot, stinky feet…

What would be worn off the Enterprise would depend on conditions obviously and therefore dictate what attire would need to be worn by those on the “away missions”. (I know, it’s a TNG term, but it is self-explanatory, so works as a term).

172. dmduncan - August 7, 2011

169. Aurore – August 7, 2011

Exactly. And if you look at the the mirror universe female uniforms (TOS: MIrror, Mirror) then the miniskirts look conservative in comparison.

173. Punkspocker - August 7, 2011

I am so proud of our nu Spock. Quinto was Clearly the best choice for the role. He continues to demonstrate his understanding of Spock. I don’t agree with Quinto, I think Spock belongs at Kirks side, not on Vulcan. But at least his perspective is valid.

174. Mel - August 8, 2011

@ 171

“Lt Uhura’s case, she wears any kind of combination of red and black, with relevant insignia and rank pinned or sewn into the upper part of the garment around the neck line, the shoulders or arms.”

Uhura doesn’t have any rank insignia, when she wears her short dress! The same is true for the female background characters, who wear the same short uniform without sleeves. I still wonder, how everyone is suppose to know their ranks!

175. Basement Blogger - August 8, 2011

The Spock-Uhura thing didn’t bother me as much as blowing up Vulcan. I just hope they don’t make their next step as a cynical ploy to improve the teenage and female demographic.

While I thought blowing up Vulcan was needless, it does raise some interesting plot points. Is the Federation weakened? Do humans dominate the Federation? See Mass Effect. What will the Klingons and Romulans do, now that the Federation has no Vulcans?

176. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 8, 2011

#174 Not having any rank insignia has nothing to do with wearing short dresses with no sleeves. This was an oversight by the producers, one which needs to be corrected by the time the sequel get released.

Are you getting this, Bob Orci?…

177. Aurore - August 9, 2011

“This was an oversight by the producers, one which needs to be corrected by the time the sequel get released.”

Yeah . Exactly .

Are you getting this ,Toto ?

:)

178. Aurore - August 9, 2011

Correction . 177.

Toto = Roberto Orci .

Damn typos . Regarding writing , I feel your pain .

Can you feel MINE?!

:))

179. somethoughts - August 9, 2011

#174

By how bruised their knees are, i keed

180. somethoughts - August 9, 2011

#171

Would have been epic if uhura was wearing victoria secret lingerie lace or gstring instead of grandma panties. The audience would have loved that much more I rekon or if she was topless and give star trek a R rating, taking off the nintendo approach to things and embrace the more xbox ps3 style mature theme, like dark knight

181. Mel - August 9, 2011

@ 176

You made it sound in comment #171, like Uhura had all the time rank insignia. They could have of course included it on her short uniform somewhere else, but so far it wasn’t the case. Even TOS gave their female characters rank insignias.

182. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 9, 2011

#180 I think you are being facetious, stupid and sexist. What you have written is just so funny – NOT!!!
That is NOT what I was talking about. *Down Boy!*

183. Aurore - August 9, 2011

176.

In 171 , you made it sound as though you were expecting to see Lt Nyota Uhura wearing a uniform with relevant insignia and rank pinned or sewn into the upper part of the garment around the neck line, the shoulders or arms.

You were expecting to see her wear such a garment ….in the upcoming sequel.

That is what I was so bold as to infer , anyway .

184. somethoughts - August 9, 2011

#182

Seriously, imagine that voyeur scene with Uhura sporting red or black lace panties. I almost barfed when I saw the grandma panties, yuck. I think it’s more sexist that Kirk is topless and Uhura is not :)

185. Aurore - August 9, 2011

“That is what I was so bold as to infer , anyway .”

Yeah, you see, that’s the trouble with you ; you’re always, inferring, assuming stuff.
Who gave you permission to do so ?

So arrogant…

:)

186. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 9, 2011

#184 Now I am lost. What “grandma panties” are you referring to?

Yes, I agree that if Kirk can be topless, then why can’t the women be the same?

Now, Bob, JJ and co. This is NOT a reason why Kirk should necessarily have to be covered also. Frankly, some uncovering of both men and women would not be a bad thing. Is the sight of a lot of human (and/or *alien* skin) such a wicked, bad thing?

But then it is the same reason why women at beaches and public pools are supposed to wear two-piece bikini or swimsuit covering a good part of her torso, while men only need to a pair of swim shorts.

Believe me, the sight of some men in only swim shorts is no more attractive than seeing some women only wearing a pair of swim shorts. It seems that it is OK for a guy to wander around flaunting his, at times dubious looking, masculinity from the waist up for all to see, but it is not OK for a woman to also be able to flaunt her, at times, dubious looking femininity.

Fortunately there are beaches (especially in Europe) which allow for topless (sun) bathing for everyone, foregoing what is obviously sexist and restrictive nonsense that does apply elsewhere.

187. somethoughts - August 9, 2011

#186

Grandma panties=non sexy white female comfy underwear.

I would have had Uhura sport a sexy red or black laced victoria secret underwear, as the promo tag line says, this isnt your fathers star trek :)

188. Jon Spencer - August 9, 2011

Amen #2.

189. Rusty0918 - August 10, 2011

keachick, somethoughts is just being a troll.

I still stick with my female chief of security idea for the sequel, who wears the pants instead of the miniskirt, while Uhura of course can still have hers. I consider it a fair compromise.

190. somethoughts - August 10, 2011

Troll really? Ive been posting on this site for 2+years? :)

The guys should be in schoolboy outfits and girls in schoolgirl outfits, wait they are.

191. Jas - August 12, 2011

I dunno… I LOVED the Spock/Uhura thing.

It made it much more accessible to the layman, I thought. That’s just my opinion tho. :)

192. Dryhtscipe - August 27, 2011

RE time travel in the Trek multiverse;

There’s time travel and then there’s universe-switching. In City on the Edge of Forever, what you see is actual time travel – they travel back in time, in their own frame of reference. Thus when returning to the same frame of reference, in the future, things are altered or remain the same depending on actions taken in the prior time period.

That’s “true” time travel, if you like, probably because of the use of the Guardian – which is a temporal anchor in the sense that it is a mechanism rooted in a single universe, but existing in many points in that universe simultaneously.

What Nero actually did was travel not merely through time, but also into a different universe entirely. Indeed, he may be argued not to even have travelled through time at all, but simply into a fractionally -younger- universe that was almost identical to his original (but not the same as the original Trek universe – there are differences even before Nero arrives).

193. CPT 808 - September 9, 2011

I think they should stop using time traveling in the Trek movies, it has been beaten to death. Saving the whales, Going back to stop the Borg assimilating Earth, the perfect reality with Picard and old Kirk, alternate Universe Dominion Wars, and all the TV time adventures. Come on trek writers, I thought you could be more creative. Might as well change the name to Time Trek.

194. icandozat - September 26, 2011

We need a poll for this so the writers can see.

Does anyone want Spock/Uhura to continue?

-Yes
-No
-Undecided

Because that relationship just smacked me out of the blue and I just can’t see it.

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