Nimoy Tweets On Star Trek Sequel Reports + Another Actor From Villain Casting Search Identified | TrekMovie.com
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Nimoy Tweets On Star Trek Sequel Reports + Another Actor From Villain Casting Search Identified May 3, 2012

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Celebrity,Nimoy,Spoilers,Star Trek Into Darkness , trackback

This week has seen a lot of reporting across the web about the Star Trek sequel, including some spoiler reporting. Star Trek legend Leonard Nimoy has offered some thoughts of his own on these reports on Twitter. And in other sequel news, a new report reveals another actor who was up for the role of the villain in the Star Trek sequel. See below, but spoilers are discussed.

 

Nimoy tweets on Star Trek sequel reports

Last week when CNN asked Leonard Nimoy if he would appear in the Star Trek sequel he replied "we’re talking." This lead to a weekend of speculation and earlier this week AICN said their sources were saying Nimoy was in the movie, something which TrekMovie picked up on as well.

This lead Nimoy to take to twitter with the following…

In TrekMovie’s report we made it clear that nothing has been officially confirmed by Nimoy, the studio or anyone associated with the Star trek movie. So technically everything reported by us and anyone else at this point is considered rumor. And it is entirely possible that the reporting is not correct.

We will know for sure in a year, or when someone officially confirms.

Mexican actor Bichir was also up for villain role

Another bit of new reporting concerns the role of the villain in the Star Trek sequel. Back in November 2011 director JJ Abrams had confirmed that he was in talks with Oscar-winner Benicio Del Toro, but those talks broke down in early December.And now Variety is reporting that Mexican actor (and Oscar-nominee) Demian Bichir was also considered for the role. An article about Bicher landing a new role in the indie film Machete Kills, also noted:

sources told Variety late last year that director J.J. Abrams had expressed interest in casting Bichir as the villain in “Star Trek 2,” but the actor had already committed to starring in a Mexican stage production of “Swimming With Sharks” that his younger brother Bruno was directing. Bichir had already delayed his participation in the play to topline “A Better Life” and recur on Showtime’s “Weeds,” so rather than bailing for another major Hollywood film, he stayed true to his word and honored his commitment to his brother.


Demian Bichir in last year’s "A Better Life" – had been considered for Star Trek villain

Other actors who have been reported to have audition for the role after talks broke down with Del Toro include Venezuelan Edgar Ramirez (Carlos) and Spanish actor Jordi Molla (Columbiana). However, in early January Abrams chose British actor Benedict Cumberbatch for the part, following his now famous iPhone (and apparently very impressive) audition.


Del Toro, Ramirez and Molla – all also considered for Star Trek sequel’s villain

One can’t help but notice that Abrams casting net included a number of Latino and Hispanic actors. And of course the role of Khan was originally played by Mexican actor Ricardo Montalban. TrekMovie recently joined the growing chorus of other outlets reporting sources saying that the villain for the new movie was indeed Khan (since our report FirstShowing.com also said their sources have been saying the same for months). But of course, like with the Nimoy report, these reports are still officially rumors as nothing has been confirmed by the studio or anyone associated with the film.

Comments

1. LizardGirl - May 3, 2012

Kind of hard to dispute now.

2. AJ - May 3, 2012

The studio should name the film, and issue a press-release so we can all just shut the f*** up about it and move on.

3. Richard C. - May 3, 2012

Del Toro, Ramirez and Molla should all play a trio of Klingons.

4. Rick Moyer - May 3, 2012

yes, many fans are Kahncerned. ;)

5. Buzz Cagney - May 3, 2012

My but they don’t look in the least bit ‘pasty faced and British’ do they!

6. Harry Ballz - May 3, 2012

well, khan we say that nimoy is in the next movie?

and khan nimoy deny it for much longer?

nimoy khan only dodge the question for so long…..

he may have to re-khan-t his original statement.

un-khan-ny how this flows…………….

7. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 3, 2012

This is really starting to irritate and bore me, all at the same time. Now Leonard Nimoy is doing the same news/no news, say stuff but really say nothing bollocks – just the kind of stuff we got for a good part of 2010/2011.

I don’t know if they think they are being clever or funny or something, but this feels deceitful and smarmy. I guess I prefer the direct sort of approach. Either he is in the sequel or he isn’t. This is just so much crap.

Abrasive enough for people? Well, good – it’s meant to be.

8. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 3, 2012

Ramirez looks rather white and “pasty faced” in that photo…

9. Jim Nightshade - May 3, 2012

Maybe Leonard can do this while eating an ice cream khan….

10. Harry Ballz - May 3, 2012

9.

Jesus!

11. Harry Ballz - May 3, 2012

i khan take a lot, but i khan-t stand it when people khan-t listen to a friggin’ khan-cern!

12. Devon - May 3, 2012

I think the Pros outweigh the Khans in this situation. Benedict will be good!

13. danielcraigsmywookiebitchnow - May 3, 2012

Got to love the back peddling on the nimoy rumor. I still think all 3rumors are suspect

14. danielcraigsmywookiebitchnow - May 3, 2012

Since when is Machette Kills a indie film lol, its being released by the same studio that released the first one and who RR has a production deal with now FOX. lol

15. The Snob - May 3, 2012

Nimoy is in it and so is Khan, look at the credits..:

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/150756_3869235098311_1501602614_3401503_1204883740_n.jpg

;)

16. The Snob - May 3, 2012

Oh, there are no credits on that one…… sorry… I hope he’s in it anyway….

17. danielcraigsmywookiebitchnow - May 3, 2012

7 Keacheck nimoy first tweeted that people were jumping to conclusions the same day that aintitcool and trekmovie and other sites were posting he was indeed involved in the movie.

Its just people choose to misread his initial tweet and then ignore his tweet he posted the next day adding that conclusions were jumping and even these two tweets mentioned in this article i mentioned on the other thread yesterday and were ignored when i asked for peoples thoughts and opinons on them as they were to busy arguing about khan.

18. danielcraigsmywookiebitchnow - May 3, 2012

I also think that if the sites are getting rumors from various sources saying this, that they might in fact be using Khan as a red herring.

19. Aurore - May 4, 2012

“Benedict will be good!”
________

Indeed, he will.
I have no doubt about it.

However, I still believe that these “Latino” actors were considered for other roles. The Latino-actors- equals-Khan argument never convinced me.

It never made sense, to me.

20. Trekee - May 4, 2012

I’d still prefer if it wasn’t Khan as the bad guy, mainly because it gives Trek “small universe syndrome” (as in hey look, it’s Chewbacca what a 10 billion to one co-incidence).

Trek 11 already suffered from that understandably (you have to get all the crew together so it HAPPENS that the planet that Kirk HAPPENS to be ejected onto by an totally-out-of-character-huffy-Spock just HAPPENS to have Prime Spock on it) but if they keep on doing this then the entire alternate Universe Trek can’t stand on it’s own as well.

I know Bob Orci said it was the timeline trying to fix itself, but that suggests that there will always be these dorky co-incidences.

Space (as a wise man once said) is big. Finding the Botany Bay AGAIN is going to be a one in a quadrillion (to the power of one) fluke that is really going to stretch the credibility of a movie based on sound scientific principles such as warp drive and alternative realities.

21. Harcourt Menton Fudd - May 4, 2012

What a bunch of gossip-y kahn-ts!

22. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 4, 2012

#15 – Are you saying that these are official posters? Where are these coming from? Why is Bob Orci saying that he cannot confirm or deny if these pictures (this one posted here and another one just showing Quinto/Spock bleeding green blood from his ear with the word “Khan”) are the real deal?

The picture of Quinto/Spock is from the first movie as is the one of Kirk. It looks like they have been photoshopped (green ‘blood’ added to Spock and Kirk given a bloody eye). Uhura’s picture is also the same and it would not be hard to add in a picture of Cumberbatch, along with the wording.

Frankly, I am not convinced by these pictures. Nothing has been confirmed by anyone about anything. Once again, it’s all speculation, wild goose chasing and most important of all, testing Trek fan audience reaction to carefully leaked rumours.

Perhaps they are for real, but I doubt it somehow. We’ve been sucked in!

23. Lords Of Kobol Book - May 4, 2012

What if Benedict Cumberbatch plays a *different* guy from the Botany Bay? Maybe Khan’s canister shorted out in this ‘verse, too, only they weren’t able to save him …

Also, #20. Regarding the “fluke” of finding the Botany Bay in space again … not so flukey. If you’ll recall, that vessel had been sending out an automated radio signal for many years, thus creating a large signal sphere around the ship. (“CQ, CQ …”)

24. chrisfawkes.com - May 4, 2012

Back in the day when i saw Generations and the lame way they killed off Kirk i could not believe that anyone involved in making a multi million dollar film just did not get it.

When i read later that they had originally filmed Kirk just being shot in the back i was equally astounded.

To me bringing Khan back would be on that level. The last two films were very Khan like so going over the ground again. It’s like turning on your favorite tv show only to find it’s the episode they’ve run six times already that year.

25. The Snob - May 4, 2012

#22, no they’re not real..! That’s why I added a wink at the bottom..!

;)

26. Tiberius Subprime - May 4, 2012

Just announce it.
I Khan’t take it anymore!

27. Tom@tom.web - May 4, 2012

20 — Don’t see it only according to statistical probability. See it as a universe in which certain things are compelled by currents of fate.

Even if time has been disturbed and an offshoot universe has been created…. The universe still might keep unfolding events and relationships with the overarching design.

:)

28. CmdrR - May 4, 2012

We’re one year out and we’re arguing in a vacuum (putrid pun angrily delivered.)
We deserve more information. Stars. A title. This is not 1982. People like to know a lot about a movie before they plunk down 12 bucks.

29. CmdrR - May 4, 2012

15 – Nice.

30. CmdrR - May 4, 2012

15 – Did Uhura get attacked by Zombies?

HEY EVERYONE… ZOMBIES IN ST 2013!!!

31. Hat Rick - May 4, 2012

Wait — so is the report that Khan is in the movie officially still a rumor as far as TrekMovie is concerned? I’m confused. (Insert “confused” smiley here.)

32. Dave R - May 4, 2012

God I hope its NOT Khan!!

33. Spock Jenkins - May 4, 2012

As I’ve mentioned before, perhaps Cumberbatch is playing Joaquin ( from Space Seed )…perhaps the Klingons destroy the Botany Bay and most of the augments’ sleeping pods including Khan Noonien Singh’s.
Joaquin is rescued by the Federation and swears bloody revenge and assumes the mantle of ‘Khan’…

It’s as good an explanation I can think of to ‘explain’ Benedict as Khan…

34. NCM - May 4, 2012

If Nimoy weren’t in the film and the powers that be wanted to dispel the rumor, Nimoy could flatly deny it.

If Khan weren’t in the film and the powers wanted us to know it, they would have flatly denied it.

My bet’s on the rumors being true, but I also suspect a major Khantortion.

Someone asked boborci, on another thread, if this stuff had been intentionally leaked, if I recall correctly. He answered emphatically, “No.” Orci obviously can’t reveal all and has to have a little fun with us–look what we aim at him–but I flat-out lie–don’t think so.

35. T'Cal - May 4, 2012

Do you think the chest that Montalbon wore is in good enough shape that Cumberpatch can wear it or will they just make a new one?

36. Sebastian S. - May 4, 2012

Col. Green said it best in TOS’ “The Savage Curtain”:

“Don’t let prejudice and rumors sway you….” ;-D

37. Spock Jenkins - May 4, 2012

To 35.

You DO realise that Montalban’s chest was real ( only shaved )?

38. Sebastian S. - May 4, 2012

I’m feeling less and less sure about the villain being Khan now (and happily so). It sounds to me like they didn’t get their initial choices for the role, thus they modified the role to fit the actor.

Also, there’s no writer’s strike this time. They can make last minute changes to the script if need be (unlike ST09, which was locked).
Just my guess.

So, the Khan rumors may very well have been true, but for earlier versions of the script. And before another round of Khan “I told you sos” begin remember; these are just rumors, and nothing more.

That being said? I’m still hoping the villain is not Khan and that Nimoy (much as I admire him) is not in the movie. That’s all.

39. Spock Jenkins - May 4, 2012

38. Sebastian S.
I second everything you are saying. I could be wrong, and it could still be Khan Noonien Singh, but I think they have modified the role to fit Cumberbatch…he may be playing ‘Khan’ but not THE Khan…

40. I'm Dead Jim! - May 4, 2012

I moving on from Khan (true or false) and just hoping that Klingons are indeed featured prominently, that is as long as they are portrayed as worthy adversaries, not just space pirates.

41. Spock Jenkins - May 4, 2012

The fact they were keen to cast Demian Bichir. lead me to suspect that were originally looking for someone to play a younger version of Montalban’s Khan ( there is some resemblance between the two – and between Demian Bichir and Nestor Carbonell, someon often cited as a fan favourite to cast a Khan ).

Perhaps there was some elasticity for the role, to allow it to be modified should their original choices fall through ( as it seemed to have done ).

Now, for the life of me, I cannot imagine Benedict as a younger version of Montalban’s character, but I can DEFINITELY imagine him as Joaquin Weiss/Joaquim from ST:WRATH OF KHAN…

42. Spock Jenkins - May 4, 2012

Apologies for the typos – and they ARE typos, not poor spelling/grammar!

43. Lope de Aguirre - May 4, 2012

Too bad. I would have loved to see him again especially as Spock Prime but I also would have enjoyed him in another Vulcan or Human role in the next ST.

44. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - May 4, 2012

That’s IT!. I Khan’t take it anymore.

45. Sebastian S. - May 4, 2012

# 41

Spock Jenkins~

Jai posted (in the rumors thread; the one reaching or exceeding 2000 posts) a theory that maybe Khan is altered or disguised somehow shortly after revival. I added that perhaps the Klingons or Peter Weller’s villain find him first (before Kirk and the Enterprise) and agree to surgically alter him to avoid identification (which sealed his fate in TOS “Space Seed”). My guess is Khan woke up and realized he was still a ‘wanted man’ and enlisted his rescuers’ aid in helping him somehow…

If that were the case? I’d be OK with Cumberbatch as Khan (as he’d be more like Bond’s North Korean adversary in “Die Another Day”).

At any rate? The Khan thing (and the Nimoy thing) are still just rumors.

46. Paul - May 4, 2012

So Nimoy is flatout denying a filmed role now then its unlike him to lie (he’s a vulcan after all!!) so perhaps the Khan reports are also untrue (I hope so).

I wonder if Paramount execs understand how much damage using the character of Khan would actually cause if its true because Khan would damage the buzz as few trek fans want to see him again as he was played to perfection already in the best movie of the series (the one they can never ever equal).

The smart thing to do now would be tell us what is not true you can keep the other secrets but to limit damage the wise people @ Bad Robot/Paramount need to understand tool ittle info can & often does cause damage (look at how little buzz Spiderman prequel is not getting as Sony rebooted something that did not need it then try to force it down the fans throats. Well Khan in ST2013 feels like that to me we need to know if its true or not as if true perhaps they can change it before it reaches post production otherwise it will not expand the box office at all if anything it will go backwards a little).

47. Spock Jenkins - May 4, 2012

45.
That too is a very plausible scenario, but as you rightly point out, until we know for sure it is all just speculation – fun speculation.

I wouldn’t get to a point like so many who are condemning the decision to use Khan ( if indeed the rumours are true ), until we the fans have seen further aspects of the movie. I just hope whatever they do, they pull it off – and if they are going back to Khan again ( literally, or in spirit ), I hope they will be able to validate their decision with a brilliant story.

I am intrigued by Benedict’s casting, and hope they will use him wisely…

48. New Horizon - May 4, 2012

With ST 2009, I was extremely disappointed that the writers fell back
on the time travel crutch again. It is such an overused device, but I figured that once they used it to reset the playing field we would finally be free and do something new. Now I hear that Khan has been confirmed for the next movie? If this is true, what the heck happened? What was the point of resetting the Trek universe if they’re just going to go back and rewrite the old adventures? Don’t people want to see something new, without relying on characters like Khan as a crutch? I know I sure do.

Once again, I’m terribly disappointed if this is true. I’m hoping that it isn’t though, and that it all turns out to be a huge decoy concocted by JJ to throw everyone off the scent. I have a feeling he is pretty miffed about all of the set photos being leaked, so I wouldn’t be surprised if this has all been masterminded as a huge distraction.

49. rm10019 - May 4, 2012

45- I don’t dislike your story idea, but that would make this spoiler VERY spoilery, in the context of watching the film and never being surprised when his identity is revealed if that’s the route the writers wanted to go.

Or perhaps conversely, we will be lead to believe he is Khan, only to reveal that he isn’t, in the end.

50. Do You Wanna Dance - May 4, 2012

Maybe it’s not Khan at all. Could be Sybok. Anyone check Cumberbatch’s ears?

51. Stargazer54 - May 4, 2012

48 – You know it. JJ’s yanking our chain.

The speculation is all good fun, though. Look forward to some trailers this winter!

52. Perry - May 4, 2012

I think we should combine the rumors…

Nimoy is playing Khan in the new ST movie!

:)

53. Sebastian S. - May 4, 2012

# 49.

The old imposter idea? That works too….

54. NuFan - May 4, 2012

I wonder if people are willing to accept unlimited embarassment because they can be anonymous here.

Anyway, I am awarding 100,000 denial points to Aurore and 1,000,000 denial points to danielcraigsmywookiebitchnow.

55. rm10019 - May 4, 2012

54 – because they care what you think

56. rm10019 - May 4, 2012

53 – i would pay real money for Javier Bardem to walk on screen in the last five minutes, asking ‘who has been stealing my name, for I AM Khan Noonien Singh.

57. T'Cal - May 4, 2012

Star Trek: The Rise of Khan

58. T'Cal - May 4, 2012

I mean, really. It only makes sense. “Rise” is the word of the day in Hollywood lately.

59. rm10019 - May 4, 2012

Only if they really want to stoke the fires of comparison to TWOK. If they did pick Khan, that is one thing. To put his name in the subtitle, that would be another step. I will stick with Boldly Go as my subtitle suggestion/vote.

60. Red Dead Ryan - May 4, 2012

Guys, it’s going to be Khan. Bob said he “could confirm nor deny anything”. He obviously can’t confirm anything because J.J Abrams won’t allow him, and he knows he can’t deny anything because it’s true. The sources are probably pretty accurate, seeing as how most of what Anthony reports tends to be true in the end.

If everything reported was false, then they could have said so. I just don’t know why they need to keep it going.

61. fiercey - May 4, 2012

I’d prefer not to see leaks and speculations… which I guess means I need to stop visiting these sites. :(

Love Star Trek as much as the next guy, but there was something about going into that new Abrams Star Trek and having no idea what to expect, and then getting BLOWN AWAY by sheer awesomeness.

62. Johnny - May 4, 2012

I still think Nimoy is only commenting that people are jumping to conclusions based on his tweets — and not the reports from “sources” that actually place him in the movie.

63. Ralph Pinheiro - May 4, 2012

After all, is Cumberbatch Khan or not?
So, Nimoy isn´t in Star Trek XII, right?

64. LJ - May 4, 2012

As I’ve said before, I’ve no problem if the antagonist is Khan. We’ve only seen him twice before, and – for me anyway – that is hardly overkill for such an iconic character. True, we have seen other iconic antagonists ruined in the past (IMHO Hayden Christensen’s Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader and Jim Carrey’s Riddler), but Cumberbatch is a fantastic actor and I believe there is still mileage in the character. Nevertheless, I would prefer to see him in a Eugenics Wars scenario (not that it is likely to ever happen – no time travel please!).

I’m not entirely convinced yet, however, that the antagonist is Khan, despite the mounting number of rumours. I am intrigued, however, by the relatively high number of British actors cast (an unprecedented number in a Trek production, correct me if I’m wrong – almost Batman levels). I’m sure that’s for a reason, and I’m intrigued to find out what it is. I’d say we don’t see enough of British culture on Trek, but that would seem a little churlish considering we are already. one might argue, over represented on what is an American show (Scott, Bashir, Reed, O’Brien (Irish I know, but they’re our brothers)).

65. THX-1138 - May 4, 2012

I don’t believe that Khan is in the movie. It doesn’t make any sense and I still give the writers and producers more credit than to rehash a storyline that has been wrung of it’s essential elements. To continue making Khan-centric movies makes less sense than just branching Khan off into his own franchise. Plus, in order for them to be take seriously not only by fans, but critics and the public at large, they would have to make the single greatest Star Trek movie ever conceived. In other words a Khan movie might possibly be the least creative and most hazardous avenue the writers could come up with.

Another point to make is that casting a white British actor in a role that for all intents and purposes is a North Indian Sikh (I know, I know, MAYBE he is a different genetic mutation. That is truly a weak sauce argument) is insulting almost in the extreme to the actual people of India.

I don’t think the people making this movie are that stupid.

66. jeannieSpock - May 4, 2012

Have a look at Nimoy on his LLAP facebook site talking about the Enterprise shuttle craft in NY. Notice his hair is much longer than he normally has it, and I swear his eyebrows are half shaved. Guess that confirms he has been filming recently.

67. Chancellor Gowron - May 4, 2012

So this movie has got Klingons and Augments in it. Wasn’t there already a Star Trek story that did that. Chances are the Klingons will find the Botany Bay, wake up Khan and his friends, and then be less succesful in preventing their ship from being taken over than Kirk was in Space Seed. Then we’ll end up with another story about genetically engineered humans going around in a Klingon Bird of Prey and being stopped by the Enterprise.

68. Montreal_Paul - May 4, 2012

As much as I dislike the idea of a Khan story again… here is my two cents on a possible direction:

The Klingons have all the data from the Narada computer banks… including the original Enterprise reports on waking up the Botany Bay and the subsequent meeting with Khan (TWOK). The Klingons find the Botany Bay and awaken Khan and his followers to use them in some sort of attempt to infiltrate Starfeet.

69. rm10019 - May 4, 2012

67 – wow I hope not. That arc in Enterprise didn’t do anything to help its flagging ratings, don’t think it would make a great film.

As it is, having both Khan and Klingons is a bit much, not sure you want to dilute the audience’s focus, a tricky balance that I’m sure this production team can manage.

70. Phil - May 4, 2012

Backpedeling abounds!! Maybe none of this is true. One could only hope…

71. NuFan - May 4, 2012

If the Borg are not a rehash and Khan is a rehash, does that make you a liar? And is it their fault for introducing Khan to new viewers or your fault for watching TWOK 400 times over the last 30 years?

72. Someone - May 4, 2012

Khan makes no sense. Space Seed alone takes place many years in the future relative to the last movie, and he’s not even all that interesting as a concept or villain until decades later when he’s rediscovered with a personal vendetta against Kirk in TWOK. For them to think it is somehow appropriate to put him into the mix at this point in time, in a new timeline, in a reboot series largely aimed at people ignorant of Star Trek history, as the main focus of a feature film — with none of that development behind him already — is completely ridiculous and would demonstrate a total lack of understanding on the part of the writers as to why the character ended up being successful in TWOK in the first place. And yet, I bet they did it. It would not surprise me in the least.

The idea that certain things about Earth’s (fictional) history (in Trek), such as the race of Khan, can be altered freely is also ridiculous. They can have license to change uniforms and ship designs which were in use before Nero’s appearance in the past, sure, I’ll grant them that no problem. But butterfly effects do not go backward through time.

73. El Chup - May 4, 2012

I Khannae take it anymore :(

74. Daoud - May 4, 2012

Yes, but since the Nero incursion in 2233, anything could have happened. The Klingons mad at Nero’s escape could have spotted Botany Bay 33 years ahead of Kirk finding it! Anything is in play.

75. THX-1138 - May 4, 2012

#71 NuFan

Who are you talking about? Be direct if you are going to call someone names.

76. Damian - May 4, 2012

65–Agreed. It’s not just rehashing Khan. Yes I feel the same as some others here who’d rather not have Khan. That he was played perfectly and you can’t outdo perfection. Or that Star Trek II was arguably one of the best Star Trek films and if this film has Khan in it, it will forever be cursed as not measuring up if there are any flaws, no matter how minor.

It’s the fact that the Khan themes have been used over and over again in Star Trek films. The last Star Trek: Nemesis and Star Trek (2009) both heavily used thems from TWOK. In essence, you really saw 3 Khan movies already.

I know this will not be a remake of TWOK or “Space Seed”, but unless you completely change the characters mindset and world view, he is still going to be a powerhunger mad superman who believes it’s his destiny to rule. Whatever story they write will have to include that element of Khan’s personality or it’s not Khan.

Like some others, I hope this is just a ploy because of all the recent leaks to refocus attention elsewhere. Though the evidence does support a reappearance of Khan.

77. Dee - lvs moon' surface - May 4, 2012

Of course there is a game of scene of Mr. Nimoy… After all, if there had been a misunderstanding in that interview to CNN… suffice he to clarify the issue objectively… would be “logical”… but all involved with Trek 2 follow the rules of “secret thing” of the director JJ Abrams… that’s how things work… anyway!

It’s annoying… but it’s OK … I can handle it!…. ;-) :-)

78. Magic_Al - May 4, 2012

I doubt the movie will choose to literally recreate any designs from Space Seed for the sake of continuity. More likely it will say, “this stuff is all imaginary and here’s what it might have looked like with more time and money.” That was the contemporary rationalization for the gap in production values between Star Trek: The Motion Picture and the original series. It was only much later that Star Trek nostalgically looked back at itself and asserted that the look of the original series should be regarded as though it was an accurately designed period drama.

79. Damian - May 4, 2012

77–Official secrecy seems to be the way of all Star Trek films. Things always get leaked but none of the powers that be ever confirmed or denied anything.

78–I doubt they will try to maintain continuity either. In universe with TMP they explained it away as a “refit.” An interesting footnote, Michael Martin tried to explain the seeming reduction in technology from Enterprise to the original series. Because of a Romulan Weapon that Starfleets ships were vulnerable too, Starfleet decided it was better to have less reduncancy in their computer systems so if an alien ship compromises a computer, they’ll only compromise one part of a starships operation, not the entire ship. They also decided less automation and more manual controls would help. It’s a stretch, but I give Martin credit for trying to tie everything together in universe.

I know, that’s probably way more information than you wanted, but I love talking about Star Trek plots and stories in universe (more so that technical points about how they make the movie and so forth)

80. P Technobabble - May 4, 2012

While I am also one of those people who would rather not see Khan in the film I think one of the big factors contributing to the resistance of Khan, in general, is that many fans have still not come to terms with Star Trek now coming to us from an alternate universe. And in this alternate universe a lot of what we know of Trek from the past doesn’t apply anymore. The fundamentals are still there (in other words Kirk is still the captain, Spock is still second in command/science officer, and so on), but a good deal of how stuff plays out will be different.
This is how things are now. If Khan is really the story’s villain, then he could appear in Kirk’s life in all kinds of unimagined ways, and it will work within this new universe.
We simply have to wait to see how this plays out.

81. Adolescent Nightmare - May 4, 2012

Humans. Vague and meaningless tweets ordered by friend JJ. Like boborci, can tell you nothing yet.

82. Michael Hall - May 4, 2012

@78 —

I don’t know where you were in ’79, but the differences in production design between TOS and TMP were “accounted for” by the backstory of the ship being refitted in drydock for the previous eighteen months. The only aspect of the film the audience was asked to accept on the basis of “This is what it would have looked like all along if we’d had the money” was the altered appearance of the Klingons, which of course has since famously been rationalized in any number of different ways.

Having seen the episodes of Weeds that featured Demian Bichir as a Mexican drug lord I can honestly say that he does the “charming but dangerous” bit very well. Montalban’s shoes would be almost impossible for anyone to fill, but I think Bichir could have done the role justice.

83. Guy Fawkes - May 4, 2012

More confirmation that Khan is the villain and we are going to see “Space Seed” the movie.

Yawn!

84. Battle-scarred Sciatica - May 4, 2012

RIP Adam Yaunch (MCA).

Respect and commiserations to you and your family.

You were the king of boggle and there ain’t none higher!

You also got to be in a Star Trek movie! Cool all round!

Respect!

85. Odradek - May 4, 2012

Khan + (Nimoy)Spock = (Nimoy)Spock will die

86. dmduncan - May 4, 2012

Of the three (or should I say four?), Molla most fits what I expect Khan to look like.

I’m now actually a little bummed that they didn’t get Molla.

87. Chancellor Gowron - May 4, 2012

69-The Augment arc in Enterprise wasn’t really bad. Actually, very little in that season was bad. Still, doing the same story in the new movie would be pointlessly repetitive, so I hope that it isn’t too similar to the Augment Arc. I still think that it is likely that Khan and his friends will end up on a Bird of Prey throughout the movie, but hopefully they won’t end up trying to steal Augment embryos, or launching a bio-weapon on a Klingon colony to start a war between them and the Federation.

88. NCM - May 4, 2012

46. Paul – May 4, 2012

So Nimoy is flatout denying a filmed role now then its unlike him to lie
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What!? No. Flatout denial would read something like, “I will not be appearing in the next Star Trek sequel.” He hasn’t come close to denying it; he’s just trying to keep fans guessing so not to completely spoil the surprise.

89. NuFan - May 4, 2012

This news shows that every effort was made to find a Latino for Khan. Not that you would be complaining any less if a Latino was playing Khan.

90. VulcanFilmCritic - May 4, 2012

NIIIIIIMOOOOOOY! Stop being so coy!

Didn’t we go through this “is-you-is-or-is-you-ain’t” thing before when the fans were asking him about whether Spock would die in ST II?
And he did the same hemming and hawing back then. Vintage Nimoy!

Since he hasn’t issued a flat out denial, which any normal person would do, I must conclude that he IS in the picture in some way. So let’s think about the evidence:
As many have noted, he’s sporting long bangs/bowl cut and possibly shaved eyebrows, but with his sparse eyebrows and glasses it’s hard to tell. He loves going to the barber, so why would he grow out his hair? At this age. So he’s most likely “in the picture.”

In what capacity is he “in the picture?”

*In a full speaking role
*In a cameo or walk-on or introduction
*In a canned video, hologram, flashback or such
*As a special effect, e.g. portraying a dead body
*Appearing only as a still photo, portrait, or static image of some sort

Hmmmm, maybe that’s why he’s being so cagey.

The person the fans should really badger at this point is Shatner. If he were in the picture, he’d let you know about it. News like that he’d have a hard time keeping to himself.

91. punkspocker - May 4, 2012

All the praise about Cumby, i’m starting to think this khan thing could work. Definitly goinf to watch sherlock.

92. Walter Kozlowski - May 4, 2012

Nimoy will be in the movie as the vioce of the computers! Talking yes! Appearing no!

93. Johnny - May 4, 2012

@ 83. Guy Fawkes “More confirmation that Khan is the villain and we are going to see “Space Seed” the movie. Yawn!”

I’m going to ask this again, because after several days you STILL haven’t provided an answer:

What don’t you understand about this NOT being a rehash of “Space Seed”? Really… it’s baffling me.

94. Chingatchkook - May 4, 2012

Guy Fawkes is trolling, that’s all.

If it is indeed Khan, I’m really curious now to see how Cumberbatch pulls it off. He’s not exactly a knockoff for Richardo Montelban…although I have no doubt that he is talented enough to rock the roll.

95. Johnny - May 4, 2012

@ 94.

Who says Cumberbatch will be doing his best impersonation of Ricardo Montalban? I’m sure his performance will be outstanding… but totally different than Montalbans. I do think the Batman comparison is appropriate — look at Jack Nicholson vs. Heath Ledger.

Two great, but totally different performances.

96. Chingatchkook - May 4, 2012

#95- Agreed, totally. Just like Pine and Quinto, he’ll no doubt put his own spin on the character. I’m just saying he doesn’t exactly look like Montalban…but then again, this is a Hollywood production we’re talking about, and they certainly can work magic with makeup and cameras.

97. Jax Maxton - May 4, 2012

I’m starting to think that perhaps Khan was the bad guy in an earlier draft of the script, but with not getting the Latino actors they wanted, they changed the bad guy. That could also explain why Nimoy, who was POSITIVELY not coming back a few months ago is suddenly back in the mix. Perhaps they came up with a bad guy that precipitated Spock prime’s return?

All just a guess, but I am having real trouble seeing them casting Cumberbatch as Khan, knowing it would cause a huge outcry about a pasty white guy replacing Ricardo Montalbon.

98. Sebastian S. - May 4, 2012

# 68

Montreal Paul~

I like that far better than a Space Seed remake, at any rate. I think perhaps Khan (with the help of Klingons and perhaps the mysterious Peter Weller villain) gets some sort of genetic facial augmentation so as not to be identified as Khan (which is what Kirk and co. did in TOS’ Space Seed). That would explain much, and would also make Cumberbatch’s casting a bit more easy to accept.

My only nit is that the story described would be very familiar to the 4th season Augments trilogy (which I enjoyed very much, but there is a danger of the franchise retreading familiar territory….).

I’m also not terribly in love with the idea of using Khan again as the new big bad, but if they explain his new look somehow (surgery, genetic alteration, etc) and work him plausibly into a bigger, more exciting story? I could be OK with it….

99. NCM - May 4, 2012

@90. VulcanFilmCritic – May 4, 2012

Since he hasn’t issued a flat out denial, which any normal person would do…
~~~

I think any normal person might value friendships over avid fans’ ‘needs’ to know… The coy Mr. NIIIIIIMOOOOOOY can’t deny or confirm anything without telling us something about JJ’s movie (and he calls Abrams ‘friend’).

100. Bob Tompkins - May 4, 2012

Nimoy as William Bell on Fringe tonight- odds looking good for another trek

101. Bob Tompkins - May 4, 2012

Spock goes full circle and sacrifices himself again to stop Khan?

102. Jack - May 4, 2012

100. Yep. He’s on Fringe. Maybe that’s where they were talking. :).

Well, these guys revel in red herrings — look at their shows.

It sure is sounding like Khan… but Latino actors doesn’t mean it has to be. Maybe the villain is Ricky Ricardo (“Jimmy, you’ve got some ‘splaining to do!”).

Gotta say, this is fun (the mysterious maybes).

103. Johnny - May 4, 2012

Leonard Nimoy just made a huge SURPRISE appearance on Fringe.

Guess who’s out of retirement AGAIN?!

104. Jack - May 4, 2012

Mild Fringe spoilers.

He looks good, btw. They did a good job at playing with Nimoy’s retirement, whether they did it intentionally or not (whether or not they knew they could bring him back) — after he officially retired, Anna Torv played him for a few episodes last year, then he did voice-only in that cartoon episode… and then a couple of weeks back they showed him in amber, which I’d thought was just a CGI tease and we’d never actually see him again. Well done.

Gotta say I’m a little confused with Bell dying 7 years ago, as I’m likely supposed to be — I guess the whole Bell went over to the other universe thing didn’t happen here (or else they just don’t know about it) without Peter around… didn’t the Bell in the other universe die in a car accident as well?

I’m hoping the “look, cortexiphan can regenerate stuff” isn’t a fake-out, and we’ll see Alex again.

Anyone who thinks these guys (or folks working for them) can’t do fresh takes on characters/ situations we’ve seen before (ex. Khan) — watch a few episodes of this show. We’ve seen something like 7 different versions of Walter at this point…

105. Bob Tompkins - May 4, 2012

It looks like Nimoy has a huge role in the Fringe season finale as well. Should have seen it coming in Episode 4-19 when Walter cut the hand off the Bell suspended in amber- with Fringe history having been erased in eppisode 4-1 and Bell never having died in Episode 3-19….. it was all wide open for Nimoy’s unretirement party.
Retirement is a funny thing, I had retired from commenting on Trekmovie.com, but if something is big enough, nothing is that permanent.
Interesting with Orci splitting from Abrams for Universal, perhaps we’ll get the next Star Trek in a little bit more of a timely manner.
Or not, unless Abrams passes on directing it.

106. Bob Tompkins - May 4, 2012

Amazing how quiet they managed to keep the Fringe appearance so quiet by distracting us with a possible Trek appearance?

107. sean - May 4, 2012

Hmmm, they’ve left out the first Tweet from Nimoy, which seemed more direct:

Leonard Nimoy ‏ @TheRealNimoy
I’m amazed.I talk to JJ Abrams and Zachary Quinto all the time. We’refriends.Conclusions are jumping. LLAP

108. draderman - May 4, 2012

Yeah WTF Nimoy?!?

You retired, Then you came out of retirement. Then you said you were retiring again “For real this time!” Then they say you are in Star Trek XII, and you tease us all with your comments and tweets. “Uhh, we’re talking. We’re talking.” And then tonight… There you are, on Fringe? BUT YOU RETIRED! TWICE NOW!

So you’re not retired? So I cant believe anything you say now. Its like you get some kind of sick, twisted kick out of making your fans think “oh, this is the last time we’ll ever see him.” WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO DO TO ME LEONARD NIMOY!!

109. nate - May 4, 2012

I was so happy to see Nimoy that those retirement rumours were instantly forgotten. He looked more like the Mission Impossible Nimoy on Fringe tonight. I expected him to have a goatee!

110. moauvian waoul - aka: seymour hiney - May 4, 2012

They got to Nimoy! Damn, JJ and his minions have long reach! Wait, are they here now, reading this?! Prank post! Prank post!

111. Spock/Uhura Admirer ;-) - May 4, 2012

“we made it clear that nothing has been officially confirmed by Nimoy,
the studio or anyone associated with the Star trek movie. So technically
everything reported by us and anyone else at this point is considered rumor. “

I beg to differ. The heading of the article said, “Major Star Trek Sequel Spoilers,” not “Major Star Trek Sequel Rumors.”

And then there’s this:

“There have been a lot of rumors and spoilers floating around the web in the last few months, including some new ones today. So TrekMovie has checked with sources and can confirm some of these reports as well as adding some new info into the mix. “

I’m not upset or anything, but let’s be real. If only rumors were being reported, then that’s not the impression that the article gave off, at least not to me. I guess I perhaps did my happy dance about Spock and Spock for nothing. Oh, well…

112. Spock/Uhura Admirer ;-) - May 4, 2012

@#108 draderman

Okay, calm down. Take a deep breath. It’ll be alright. Sometimes people plan on retirement and keep getting lured back into working. Let’s just call him semi-retired and call it a day. That should do the trick.

I’m just happy to see him working whenever he decides to. :-)

113. Shilliam Watner - May 4, 2012

Keachick – I agree with your feeling of being “played.” Whether it’s intentional or not, I don’t know. At first it felt fun, but now it feels a little disrespectful. Again, I don’t know that it is purposeful. I’d rather give the benefit of the doubt. Still, it is what it is, and I wish they’d confirm something. That would be the respectful, gentlemanly thing to do.

Either way, I’ll live and won’t start a flame war or anything like that. No matter what, I’m really looking forward to the film and expect to be wowed. If not, I’ll be honest about it, but again, I won’t be an effer.

There’s no way these guys are trying to make a bad movie. They know full well that making a good movie is more financially viable, and also more fun! They’re not stupid. You can debate their level of talent, but I’m pretty certain they’re sincerely trying to make a good movie.

114. Jim Nightshade - May 4, 2012

Leonrad was awesome on fringe tonite–bell is back but appears to be evil?…and i thought walter cut his hand off when he was in stasis..guess i didnt understand what really was going on…season or maybe series finale next frin on fringe…imo the best show on tv now

115. The Great Bird of the Galaxy lives! - May 4, 2012

What I find peculiar is how these rumors seemed to surface at the same time, as if they were timed to be leaked to multiple sources so that these sources would turn to each other for confirmation. The feed-back would make it seem like these rumors are reliable- but in reality…

That being said, should these rumors pan out reliably, it would seem that the idea of BC playing Joachim is the likely theory. *NOTE: kudos to the theories originator.
The story is possibly ABOUT KHAN, and how Joachim tries to recover Khan who was perhaps stolen in frozen state as a trophy of sorts. The Klingons will likely Intercept the Botany Bay and revive Joachim who immediately realizes Khan is gone. Joachim must then infiltrate the ranks of Starfleet to get to the geneticist who is holding Khan in frozen state.
When the Enterprise finds an empty Botany Bay the elder Spock has no choice but to warn Kirk of the potential threat they may soon face.
This scenario would likely end with THE Khan being ressurected in this timeline. A decent theory, and my favorite…

Originally, I had hoped that Khan would survive the Genesis explosion.
If the Genesis wave regenerated/reanimated Captain Spocks corpse in ST III TSFS, why couldn’t the same be true for Khan? I mean, the possibility did exist ie: A plausible story could have come from it.

Who knows? But It sure is fun speculating.

116. Shilliam Watner - May 4, 2012

If Genesis had regenerated Khan, he truly WOULD have become Kirk’s Joker.

117. danielcraigsmywookiebitchnow - May 5, 2012

115
the difference between spock and khan though is Khan exploded, spocks body arrived safely on the genesis planet, where it was reanimated. Khans body was blown to bits before the genesis planet even formed. there was nothing there to be regenerated or reanimated in his or his crews case.

118. The Great Bird of the Galaxy lives! - May 5, 2012

117-

True, but even though Spocks body arrived on the surface safely, the molecules still have to turn to energy and reform him into a baby. If it were not for the acceleration of the planets deconstruction he would have aged normally rather than the theatrical rate we witnessed. Khan must have exploded. But could his molecules have reformed? The only difference is, Spocks molecules were in the same spot, where as Khans were scattered. In the grand scheme of things it’s no difference at all, really.

119. The Great Bird of the Galaxy lives! - May 5, 2012

117-

Remember, It was the cry of a baby, or a young child that was first heard by David Marcus, and Saavik. So it was Spocks molecules that were regenerated, albeit stationary ones…

120. steve - May 5, 2012

i think i have proof nimoy is in the new movie

if anyone here is a fan of fringe, you`ll see he was in this past fridays episode, and u can see he has part of his eyebrows are very thin, as though they`ve been shaved recently, and his filming of the fringe episode would coincide with filming of the star trek movie

121. Azrael - May 5, 2012

@105. I don’t believe Abrams and Orci are parting ways. The article mentioning Orci and Kurtzman’s new deal with Universal mentions they were asked if this would interfere with their work on the next (not the one filming) Star Trek movie, they are noted as replying in the negative.

122. masteroforion - May 5, 2012

It makes sense that Abrams waited a while for the script before committing to a sequel. I think he probably looked at the script hoping it would be Kahn and I think he probably got confirmation on that sometime at the end of last year.

123. LazarusNine - May 5, 2012

I agree with #20. Bring back Star Trek, not this self-referential shell that can only exist as a hipped up, ‘modernised’ (which will eventually become just as dated as the original or more so) version of TOS. In fact, it is because TOS (and eventually TNG) was doing something new and introducing new scenarios and characters week by week that it has enjoyed such popular longevity. Everyone keeps trying to remake TWOK (Nemesis, Nero in ST 2009) when they should leave well enough alone. Move on. I hope that’s the case for ST 2013. Angsty 20-somethings who appear conscious a camera is on them all the time are a bit of a bore.

124. Basement Blogger - May 5, 2012

@ 38

Sebastian S. says,

“I’m feeling less and less sure about the villain being Khan now (and happily so)”

What about the evidence? You don’t even refute it. You don’t want khan so much, you’re ignoring the evidence. I don’t want Khan either but I’m willing to look at the evidence. I mean look at this stuff.

1. After Del Toro opted out, they searched for a Hispanic actor. Ricardo Montalban who played Khan was Mexican and he did so with a full Hispanic accent. The search for a Latino actor is all about continuity.

2. Leaked video. Cumberbatch looks like a human. He beats the daylights out of Spock. Now remember that Vulcans are stronger than humans. In Space Seed, Khan say he’s five times stronger a normal human. And in one scene, he chokes Spock with one hand. Uhura has to shoot him with a phaser to put him down.

3. Cumberbatch in an interview with MTV says he had to work out for the role. Remember Montalban’s prodigous chest in Khan and Space Seed?

4. Cumberbatch said he had to dye his hair black. Why? Continuity with Khan.

5. Anthony’s sources. This is the first time that TrekMovie reported that its Khan. Anthony is very careful about what he puts up on his website. I’m sure his sources are good.

It’s Khan. And I agree with you, I don’t want Khan. Been there and done that. I’ll keep an open mind though. ST2013 could be a great movie. We’ll see.

125. draderman - May 5, 2012

Leonard Nimoy said this in 2010 in regard to his 2nd retirement from acting:

“I went back to the Star Trek movie because it offered me a chance to do something with the Spock character that we had not done, and that was to kind of bring him around full circle and give some closure to the character. And then having done that and having a very good experience, the people who made the Star Trek movie asked me as a favor to do some appearances on the Fringe television show and I did five episodes, and I said “you got it guys” and they said “if we come to your home, can we shoot some more?” and I said “no, it’s done”. So it’s over. I am totally committed to the photography now.” http://trekmovie.com/2010/08/02/leonard-nimoy-on-finality-of-retirement-closure-for-spock-new-photograpy-show/

William Shatner said this in 2010 in regard to Leonard Nimoy’s retirement plans:

“Nimoy keeps retiring… Every six months he tells me and everybody else ‘I’m retiring.’ And nobody takes him seriously anymore. But I don’t say that. I don’t know, I’m just going along. I’m just trying to make a living here.” http://trekmovie.com/2010/06/24/shatner-reveals-captains-doc-details-which-explains-bakula-meeting-talks-nimoy-retirement/

126. Basement Blogger - May 5, 2012

“An article about Bicher landing a new role in the indie film Machete Kills, also noted:”

Ha. ha. Just in case you don’t get the joke, the first Machete was a homage to violent drive in fare. The body count was high enough for three Lethal Weapon movies. At the end, they announced the sequel would be Machete Kills and then Machete Kills Again, which were jokes.. I laughed at that. So I’m amused they’re going to name the sequels like that. What next? Machete Don’t Text. You have to see Machete to get that one.

Holy cow. IMDB lists Mel Gibson for Machete Kills. Okay, that’s stunt casting. Let me guess he plays a racist. And they bring back horror legend Tom Savini. Looking forward to it.

. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2002718/fullcredits#cast

127. Montreal_Paul - May 5, 2012

@123 Basement Blogger

Who says it will be Khan?? Let’s go through your points…

1 – So? They were looking at Hispanic actors. Doesn’t mean they were looking for a “Khan”.. why not look at Indian actors?

2 – Again… so? Gary Seven also over powered Spock in the original series. Actually, Spock was over powered by quite a few people.

3 – So he had to work out… and???? Most actors usually have to work out for their roles. Have you seen how scrawny he is in Sherlock Holmes?

4 – He dyed his hair black. He’s a villain. It’s the whole White hat = good guy; Black hat = bad guy thing. Khan had long hair… why no extensions?

5 – Anthony even wrote, “…these reports are still officially rumors as nothing has been confirmed by the studio or anyone associated with the film.”

I agree, there are coincidences, but nothing is confirmed.

128. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 5, 2012

“Interesting with Orci splitting from Abrams for Universal, perhaps we’ll get the next Star Trek in a little bit more of a timely manner.”

Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman have their own writing company – Orci Kurtzman Paper Products. They regularly write for other studios, producers. People Like Us is a Dreamworks film. They were doing that while they were busy working on this Star Trek film. It was JJ Abrams who kept them waiting when it came to being able to proceed to the next stage in the making of the Star Trek sequel. Paramount Pictures, owners of the Star Trek film franchise, appeared OK with JJ Abrams’ desire to do his own project, Super 8, before coming back to Star Trek. Paramount’s call – like it or not.

Yes, I guess if William Shatner were coming back for the sequel, he would be telling everybody or simply saying NOTHING. (Rightly or wrongly, I have an impression that Chris Pine behaves in a similar manner to Shatner). However, this is not how Leonard Nimoy seems to operate.

Personally, I prefer Shatner’s style – more straightforward and ultimately, more genuinely respectful to fans and others in general. There I have written it. I always get the feeling with Shatner that you would know where you stood (even if that was not pleasant) but not so with many of these other actors/directors/producers…

129. Jack - May 5, 2012

123. Dude. The more you repeat the evidence, probably the more you’ll get some people (like me) clinging to possible alternatives. Human nature, man.

It points to Khan, arguably, but none of it excludes other possibilities (a beefy, possibly Latino character with dark hair). It’s not ‘pure logic’ that it’s Khan.

It sure might be. But, Montreal Paul nicely points out alternatives. And the whole beating the crap out of Spock — well, it shows them grappling, and that’s about it. It’s still possible that these are red herrings — the latino actor bit seems almost too obvious. Bottom line, we’re guessing either way. Yes, it’s leaning toward Khan, but…

I once woke up and white stuff was falling outside my window — I thought, wow it’s snowing. It was April (not an impossible time for snow). And then I opened the window and noticed it was 10C outside (possibly cold enough for snow) but the white stuff was only falling on one side of the house. I couldn’t smell smoke but thought maybe it wasn’t snow, maybe it was ashes or something else white — and got into an argument with my roommate over it (because we couldn’t smell smoke) — He said it was just snowing and I was being crazy, I said it seemed odd. We went outside, caught some of this stuff in our hands (and it didn’t melt) and finally got far enough away from our house to see that the adjoining neighbour’s roof was on fire (a very slow, smouldering fire) and the white stuff was, yes, ashes. What’s the point of the story — well, all that’s white and falls from the sky isn’t snow, and sometimes where there’s not smoke, there’s fire.

I just felt like telling a story. Like I said, you’ve decided that the evidence rules out the possibility that it’s not Khan. Some of us, like me, prefer to wait and see. Listing your points repeatedly won’t change my mind — and I’m stubborn, it’ll probably make me cling to the opposite view. Yep, the stuff from Anthony this week, and the (lack of) team reaction is definitely tilting it in Khan’s favour…

There are pretty great chances that you’ll be correct and it will be Khan. But I haven’t been convinced by what’s out there yet (I’ve seen the same stuff you have), and, unless they come out and officially confirm it, and even then, I probably won’t be convinced until I see the darned movie myself.

130. Spock/Uhura Admirer ;-) - May 5, 2012

@#124

Proof that some people keep getting lured back in. Should we damn him for being so good and desireable? I think not. :-)

Keep on trekkin’. ;-)

131. Jack - May 5, 2012

67. Yeah, I wasn’t a fan of the augments stuff either.

132. draderman - May 5, 2012

Spock/Uhura – Yea i guess if i had listened to Shatner i wouldn’t have been so surprised to see Nimoy on Fringe. Serves me right!

133. Geodesic - May 5, 2012

@74

One would think that all of the black holes and the destruction of Vulcan had some sort of impact on the orbits of various objects, like perhaps the Botany Bay, so that space-based objects from any past trek story could be found in different solar systems.

But hey, we’re just making stuff up based off a few rumors.

134. Geodesic - May 5, 2012

@83

What is the point of complaining about a movie that is still in production and that you haven’t even seen yet? Is this entertaining for you?

135. Magic_Al - May 5, 2012

Regarding the Genesis wave’s effect on Khan vs. Spock, in Khan’s case we can say none of his DNA, indeed none of his atoms, survived intact if Genesis worked as described. As Carol Marcus explained in her Genesis proposal tape, the Genesis effect would reorganize matter at the subatomic level into life-generating matter of equal mass. As Spock and McCoy discussed, if Genesis was used where life already existed (the USS Reliant in this case) it would destroy such life in favor if its new matrix. Spock’s body was added to the system at a later phase when planet with a template of life had been established and lifeforms were being rapidly produced from that template. His DNA joined the Genesis matrix as a second template and a Vulcan was produced simultaneously with the lifeforms predetermined in the Genesis matrix. Of course, nobody saved Khan’s Katra either.

136. The Great Bird of the Galaxy lives! - May 5, 2012

135-

Agreed, and nice way of explaining it. But my final argument is that in ‘Star Trek’, or any fiction for that matter, anything can happen. Including the resurrection of Kirk Prime…

Peace, and long life (V)

137. rangerone314 - May 5, 2012

I’m really skeptical that it will be Khan in the new movie. Disinformation.

I’d put money down on Garth of Izar.

138. Montreal_Paul - May 5, 2012

Just throwing this out there…..

Gary Seven was able to shrug off Spock’s neck pinch in Assignment: Earth.

Just saying that Khan wasn’t the only one that was able to overpower Spock. Wait a sec… did we ever SEE Khan battle Khan in Space Seed or TWOK…. hmmmmmm.

139. RJ Macready - May 5, 2012

*speculation*
The original script had Khan and the Botany Bay.
Futilely tried to cast Khan. Failed.
Decide to find the best actor they could think of to use a new Augment.
Relatively easy re-write. Staging/setting is the same. Change some dialogue around, maybe twist some character motivation.

Dodge the inevitable bullet regarding comparisons to Khan/TWOK/Montalban…while also throwing a bone to hardcores…while also writing to a new canvass which was the entire reason for kick starting the alternate timeline. Sounds like something Lindelof would have done on LOST as a ‘save’ measure if/when casting became difficult – try to service casuals and hardcores at the same time.

Not to mention typical Abrams plausible denial, combined with a curveball in the form of playing with expectations.

There is no reason to think they’d be dumb enough to believe they could fool casual Trek fans (the kind that make Trek itself a commodity worth investing in) by casting an Englishman as Khan. You are trying to get these people back in the fold, not alienate them by insulting their intelligence.

To sum, they would WANT us to believe it’s Khan.
That’s the set -up to the punchline.

140. Cervantes - May 6, 2012

Just name this sequel STAR TREK:THE RETURN OF KHAN and be done with it.

Man, that guy Bichir must be bummed he possibly missed out on this role because of some damned ‘stage play’ his brother had arranged…

And his brother should’ve free’d him up and told him to forget about the stoopid ‘stage play’ in the first place, I reckon!

141. Cervantes - May 6, 2012

#27 Tom@tom.web posted: “20 – Don’t see it only according to statistical probability. See it as a universe in which certain things are compelled by currents of fate. Even if time has been disturbed and an offshoot universe has been created… The universe still might keep unfolding events and relationships with the overarching design. :) ”

A universe in which certain things are compelled by ‘currents of fate’ eh?

Well that’s an interesting way to choose to look at all this, but I reckon I’ll stick to my own ‘imagined’ preference of looking at the ENTIRE start of the STAR TREK (09) movie as just being set an different, *alternate* universe compared to the TOS ‘Prime’ universe to begin with…so that it then doesn’t matter how things supposedly change when the *timeline* kicks in, no matter how messed up the re-imagining gets…as it’s NOT the ‘Prime’ universe to begin with, lol.

…and this different, *alternate* universe view of the ‘J.J.-verse’ can be equally applied to the STAR TREK GENERATIONS movie too, so that I can ‘imagine’ the ‘Prime’ universe Kirk actually DID ‘sign off’ safely at the end of STAR TREK VI:THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY…and that TNG etc. only exist *outwith* the ‘Prime’ TOS universe…

Well, at least it’ll satisfy me as a theory to make up for the fact that J.J. and co. keep dropping the ball when it comes to the potential for something really new to show us. I’ve had my fill of ‘Khan’-alikes and Klingons, without filling up yet another universe with them…

142. Cervantes - May 6, 2012

The above should have read – set in a different, *alternate* universe compared to the TOS ‘Prime’ universe to bein with…

Damn typos!

143. Cervantes - May 6, 2012

…to begin with…

Damn typos again, lol.

144. Montreal_Paul - May 6, 2012

re: post 138…

I meant … have we ever seen Khan battle Spock…

I type faster than my brain can process.

145. AB - May 6, 2012

@ 139

I agree with this. I think this is likely what has happened. I’m actually really HOPING this is what has happened. I think it would be the best way to please the widest possible audience. I have no problem with them doing a story based on Khan, and I’m really excited that Cumberbatch has been cast. This solution would be the best way to make the most of the situation.

146. TrekMadeMeFat - May 6, 2012

If everyone would accept reality, then we could move on to a more interesting area of speculation.

How will it all unfold in this universe?

147. Aurore - May 6, 2012

“1 – So? They were looking at Hispanic actors. Doesn’t mean they were looking for a ‘Khan’.. why not look at Indian actors?”
___________

Indeed.

If Khan Noonien Singh is in the sequel, have Indian actors been given a chance, at some point in the casting process?

If not, why ?

In any case, to me, one thing is for certain; had “the power that be ” actively searched for an Indian actor, there would have been no room for speculation, as far as the identity of the villain would have been concerned. I think that, justly or not, most fans would have screamed “KHAAaaaaaan!” in unison. There would have been no suspense, so to speak.

What is interesting, with the casting of Hispanic actors, is that debates, theories etc… abound around the villain’s identity.

For instance, many fans such as Bernie (@124) view the search for Hispanic actors as a sign of what he refers to as “continuity”. While, Personally, equating such a search with Khan makes, to some extent, as much sense as casting an Hispanic actor as Nakamura in a remake of Sayonara ( 1957 ) would, today. That is just my opinion, evidently.

We’ll see what happens in the coming weeks, months.
Meanwhile, to paraphrase a fellow Star Trek fan’s statement on another thread; … if Khan is in the sequel, I’ll believe it when I see it…

148. Jack - May 6, 2012

@ Aurore “In any case, to me, one thing is for certain; had “the power that be ” actively searched for an Indian actor, there would have been no room for speculation, as far as the identity of the villain would have been concerned.”

Good point.

The debate is fun.

And, I gotta say, I saw Avengers this weekend — there have been arguments that Avengers was so much better (for lack of a better word) at sharing with fans etc. during production — I hadn’t been on Avengers boards or anything (but had been on AICN, superhero hype), but, apart from the fact that, yes, there were Avengers in it and the villain was Loki, nothing had been spoiled before I went in. I was happy for that.

I just wish folks would appreciate how great it is that we don’t know everything that will happen in this next Trek. But, alas, to each, his/her own.

Once it’s out there though, it’s not just here and something you can avoid — it’s everywhere. Heck, even on this site, the Cumberbatch as Khan stuff quickly appeared on other threads.

149. Chancellor Gowron - May 6, 2012

138-
The only time we’ve ever seen Khan in an actual fight was when he fought Kirk in Space Seed. Spock never tried to use the neck pinch and I don’t think that T’pol used it on Malik or any of the other Augments either. Gary Seven doesn’t seem likely though, because he wasn’t really a bad guy, and he’s from the 20th century. Unless they want to do 2 time travel stories in a row, I doubt that Seven will be the villain.

150. Basement Blogger - May 7, 2012

127

Montreal Paul

1. On Latin Actors. Montalban was Mexican. He played Khan with a Hispanic accent. Continuity with the old Khan.

2. What do you mean so? What kind of argument is that? Spock is stronger than humans. The video shows not just Cumberbatch simply overpowering him but in a way that indicates superhuman strength. Look again. Cumberbatch chokes Spock with one hand. Uhura has to shoot him with a phaser. This guy has superhuman strength. Khan in Spacee Seed says he’s five times stronger than any human.

3. Working out. If the role required him to play a nerd, he obviously didn’t need to work out. Watch Space Seed. Motnalban was cut. Which by the way should shoot down the fans who think he had a prosthetic for TWOK.

4. You argue he dyed his hair black because he’s a villain. That’s just silly. Oh come on. Star Trek has become that simplistic? The show that had great episodes that made you think has become all about mustache twirling bad guys?

5. Anthony ‘s sources. You misinterpret the rumor part. They are officially rumors, doesn’t mean Anthony’s sources are feeding him rumors. It’s just classified as rumor. Anthony wrote a story about Major Spoilers. He says it’s Khan.

IMDB once listed Cumberbatch as Khan. Anthony did not go with that. And we both love IMDB. It was until he had his sources confirm it was Khan. This was the first time he wrote it was Khan. I don’t think Anthony would write that Cumberbatch was Khan unless he had accurate information.

6. Your arguments are just about saying no. How about offering a different conclusion?.

Super human strength. Search for Hispanic actor. Black hair.

Maybe it’s Zorro, exposed to gamma radiation.. He becomes Super Zorro.

Okay, if you had said Gary Mitchell, I could buy that. The leaked video showed Cumberbatch with a Starfleet undershirt and pointed sideburns. But that doesn’t explain the search for the Hispanic actor.

151. Basement Blogger - May 7, 2012

129

Jack.

Dude. (Your term.) . You got to examine the “snow.” And yeah we don’t have the script, we can only examine the evidence before us. I like to use logic to reach a conclusion based on the evidence we have. I also trust Anthony who previously wrote it was Khan based on his sources. But okay, I’ll see if I can play it your way. Here we go.

Viewing the evidence in an alternative way, the villain is Nacho Libre, a role originated by Jack Black. Having Nacho explains the need to find a Hispanic actor. The energy ribbon from Star Trek: Generations traps Nacho. He’s there until the twenty third century when a transporter removes him to a starship. The ship hits another energy barrier which transforms Nacho into Super Nacho. That explains the superhuman strength. It also turns his hair black because according to Montreal Paul, the villains wear black. Okay, I couldn’t fit in the working out evidence by Cumberbatch but hey, he could be playing Super Nacho with a Hispanic accent.

152. Emotionally Logical - May 7, 2012

I hope if this is really Khan that they do it right!

153. Montreal_Paul - May 7, 2012

150. Basement Blogger

And your comments were just saying it is Khan. My comments were just refuting yours. You mentioned in your initial comment that someone didn’t even refute their beliefs that it wasn’t a rehash of Khan… well, I am.

1 – Continuity with Khan. Okay, let’s go with your logic. If they were looking for a Latin actor for “continuity”… then why choose a British actor in the end? If the search for a Latin actor didn’t work out for “continuity” with Ricardo Mantalban, they could have used “continuity” with the character of Khan and looked at Indian actors. They didn’t. No continuity there at all.

2 – Like I said… there are other characters there were stronger than Spock. Gary Seven (Assignment: Earth had a scene where Gary Seven actually overpowered Spock and shrugged off a neck pinch… hmmm continuity?), Gary Mitchell, Another Vulcan, Romulans share the same strength as Vulcans… shall I go on? Just because the villain is shown to be able to get out of a neck pinch, doesn’t mean he is Khan.

3 – Chris Pine said he had to work out for the role. Other actors work out for their roles. Just because Cumberpatch had to work out for his role doesn’t mean he is Khan.

4 – Yes, quite often film-makers use simple techniques such as a simple hair dye to show a villain. Could you imagine Darth Vader in white or blue? How about General Zod dressed in light colors? Notice how the Klingons are always dressed in darker colors and Starfleet uses brighter colors? Just saying…

5 – Ummm… do you know what a “rumor” is? It is an unconfirmed report of something being factual. Until the rumors are confirmed by the studio, JJ or anyone else on the team… they are just rumors. Otherwise Anthony would have posted this as “Paramount/JJ confirm reports that the villain is Khan.” And yes, Anthony’s sources could have bad information as well. They have been wrong before.

6 – IMDB is “not” the end all and be all. They often get things wrong based on rumors and anyone can submit info and corrections. I wouldn’t exactly use that as a “source” for your conclusions.

Superhuman strength. Caucasian actor. Unconfirmed reports. Could be anyone… including Gary Seven, A Klingon augment, a possessed Gary Mitchell, etc.

I’m not saying that it isn’t Khan and I am not saying that it is Khan… I’m just saying that things may not appear so cut and dry. Until I read somewhere that the studio or JJ has confirmed it is Khan… I am not buying into rumors and speculation.

154. Basement Blogger - May 7, 2012

153

Montreal Paul

1. Cumberbatch was cast after a killer audition. Again, they searched for a Hispanic actor. Obviously the other auditions were not good enough for Abrams. Watch Space Seed. Lt. McGivers is not sure about his ethinic makeup. She uses the terms “I guess…. Probably a Sikh…” That’s the wiggle room to cast Cumberbatch. Khan Sr. could have planted his space seed in a caucasian woman or used his space seed to fertilze an egg from a cauasian woman. Check how light skinned Norah Jones is. Dad was Indian Shankar.

2. I will have to watch Assignment Earth to see how Gary Seven did that. But as far as Gary Mitchell, yeah that’s possible. I do acknowledge that Cumberbatch was wearing a Starfleet undershirt and had pointed sideburns. But again what was up witth the search for Hispanic actors.

3. On working out. Sure actors have to work out, Again watch Space Seed. Montalban was cut. To match that, Cumberbatch would probably have to work out. I mean he ain’t playing Einstein because if he were, there would be no need for Cumberbatch talking about his need to work out.

4. I give Abrams, Orci and Kurtzman more credit than you do. Let’s put black on them to show they’re bad? Under you logic, maybe they should put a mustache on Cumberbatch so he can twirl it. Oh and by the way in Return of the Jedi, Luke Skywalker wore black.

There’s no need to dye Cumberbatch hair black just to show he’s evil. That’s silly. A good screenplay and direction with dialogue and actions can do the same. And it’s better.

5. Yes. I do know what a rumor is. The studio won’t comment on Khan becuase they don’t comment on rumor My point is Anthony is reporting it’s Khan. Other sites cite TrekMovie as saying it’s Khan. Okay, I’m going to quote this website.

“TrekMovie has also confirmed this with a number of sources so WE NO LONGER CONSIDER IT TO BE A RUMOR. . Khan is back in 2013″

http://trekmovie.com/2012/04/30/major-star-trek-sequel-spoilers-confirmed/

That story has not been “corrected.” So TrekMovie does not consider it to be a rumor. Yeah, Anthony’s sources could be wrong…. which leads me to your next point.

6. YOU TOTALLY MISREAD MY POST. I’m not arguing that IMDB is accurate all the time. My point was when IMDB once said it was Khan, Anthony was careful and didn’t report that because he couldn’t confirm it.

Here’s exactly what I said.

“IMDB once listed Cumberbatch as Khan. Anthony DID NOT GO WITH THAT”. And we both love IMDB. It was until he had his sources confirm it was Khan. This was the first time he wrote it was Khan. I don’t think Anthony would write that Cumberbatch was Khan unless he had accurate information”

I DID NOT SAY IMDB WAS A SOURCE FOR My CONVICTIONS SO
PLEASE GET YOUR INFORMATION RIGHT. IN FACT I PRAISE ANTHONY SINCE HE COULDN’T CONFRIM IT WHEN IMDB RAN IT. And now that he can, Trekmovie is reporting that it’s Khan.

I’ll go halfway with you. If you can find a Hispanic villain from TOS with superhuman strength and black hair, then that’s a plausible. In fact, assuming you don’t believe TrekMovie’s prior story, it could be anybody from the Trek world or a new villain. But I follow the evidence and this site’s story that the anatagonist is Khan.

155. RJ Macready - May 7, 2012

If the ethnicity of the Main Villain were important when they wanted Edgar Ramirez and Co. (and I agree that it was), then it would still be important after they didn’t get them, unless the character itself changed.

Anyhow…
Let’s look at Bad Robot…they like using a lot of the same people. Josh Holloway was in MI:4. I just saw Rebecca Mader on Fringe last week and the week before that, it was Henry Ian Cusick. Daniel Dae Kim is in and Terry O’Quinn played a significant role in Hawaii 5-O. Emilie De Ravin was in a few episodes of Once Upon A Time. Jorge Reyes is in Alcatraz and Michael Emerson is in Person of Interest. For non-LOSTies, that’s Sawyer, Charlotte, Desmond, Jin, Locke, Claire, Hurley and Ben from LOST. And maybe there are more I can’t recall at the moment?

One actor I didn’t name is Naveen Andrews. He played Sayid. For those that don’t know, Sayid was a former Iraqi Republican Guard, a torturer and generally speaking, the ‘bad-ass’ on LOST. Despite playing an Iraqi, he is of Eastern Indian descent. Uh…Khan, much? So you’re telling me they didn’t even consider him before looking for a pasty faced Englishman?

Maybe they didn’t consider Andrews. I heard he’s kind of a jerk off-screen. But in any regard, the point still stands. If ethnicity were important, why wouldn’t it still be? Are you telling me that there is a paucity of Hispanic or Latino or even Eastern Indian actors out there?

Or is anyone trying to convince us they just went with a Box Office ‘name’ in Cumbersquatch? Why would then even CONSIDER him? Why even let him audition? And why specifically him? Again, I would suggest it’s because the casting itself changed because the character changed and when that happened Cumberbones became the #1 target…and he knocked it out of the park in his audition. Otherwise, who thinks ‘we need Khan…I know, let’s get the guy from Sherlock!’. Not only is there an ethnic discontinuity, you have added exactly ‘NO’ box office draw for your main villain. And you would only do this out of the necessity of the actor and part. Or in other words, if you could choose just ‘anybody’, why not choose ‘Insert Big Name Here’?

The casting of Cumbersmash as Main Villain tells us that it was – at least in part – specific to him. Meaning, maybe they specifically wanted the stereotypical European (or simply British) sounding Bad White Guy. Otherwise, what makes them go there? Do you see what I’m saying? If you can conceivably cast ‘any given white guy’ why not try to get…I don’t know…Tom Cruise (Abrams knows him) or some other big draw?

To sum, maybe he is (stupidly) Khan. I wouldn’t rule it out. But none of this really makes sense unless you either think the Bad Robot guys are complete idiots…or that they think we are. And by “we” I am not just talking about fanboys and fangirls on sites like this. I am talking about the average fan, each of which knows precisely who Khan is and what he is supposed to look like. After all, they’d never have cast Kirk as an Asian…and why? Because they know that iconic characters bring baggage with them. Part of the reason you use them is because of that baggage (brings people in) but somewhere inside of that baggage is that very same expectation.

P.S.
I am not insulting Benedict, I just think it’s fun to mess with his name. ;)

156. Montreal_Paul - May 7, 2012

155. RJ Macready

Well put! I agree completely. If by going with actors like Del Toro et al. were being looked at because continuity with Ricardo Mantalban was so important – they wouldn’t have even considered Cumberbatch. Why not look at Naveen Andrews (like you pointed out) or even Nester Carbonell (who also worked on LOST)?

@154 – Basement Blogger

If continuity with Khan was so important like you are saying – they would have never chosen Cumberbatch. You say they dyed his hair black because Khan had black hair in Space Seed… he also had long hair, why not give him hair extensions as well?

What I am saying here is that all the information you keep giving can be looked at both ways. There is no confirmation that it is Khan. If Anthony was 100% sure and it was from an inside source that CONFIRMED it, then why would he report that these are UNCONFIRMED RUMORS?

You seem so sure that these are all pointing to Khan… they could be… and they can be pure coincidences too. Know what I mean?

157. Aurore - May 7, 2012

When Mr. Cumberbatch dyed his hair black, I personally assumed that it was probably in order for him to look the part Benicio Del Toro, Jordi Molla, and, Edgar Ramirez had been considered for, originally….

…That of a new villain to the canon.

With his amazing talent and voice quality, could he do a convincing accent?…an…Hispanic accent, maybe?

I believe he Khan…

:)

158. Basement Blogger - May 7, 2012

@ 155

RJ Macready says,

“If the ethnicity of the Main Villain were important when they wanted Edgar Ramirez and Co. (and I agree that it was), then it would still be important after they didn’t get them, unless the character itself changed.”

I hope I get your post right. You seem to say that if ethnicity is no longer important than the character changed. Assume it was Khan, are you saying it’s not Khan.

You make some interesting points. However, if you are correct and they changed the villain from a Hispanic villain to another villain they did so right before shooting. That would require a script change. And I’m guessing a big one since different villains would have different goals. The facts are Del Toro was considered in late November 2011. Cumberbatch was cast in January 2012. Not a lot of time for major script changes before shooting.

Yeah, they should use an Indian or Sikh to play Khan. The purpose of searching for Hispanic actors is that Montalban who played Khan is of Mexican heritage. And he played the role with his Latin accent intact.

Look, the way the writers get around the Indian racial dynamic, is Space Seed itself. Lt. McGivers uses the terms, “I guess. .. :Probably a Sikh.” She’s not sure and she’s the historian. Yes, he could come from India but we don’t know the exact race of the parents. We don’t know how Khan was genectically engineered. Mixiing Khan Sr.’s space seed with a caucasian woman’s egg. Produces a person that looks like singer Nora Jones, who has Indian-caucasian blood. That look is light skin and black hair. Cumberbatch’s light skin and hair dyed black matches that.

I trust Anthony’s story on Major Spoilers. If he updates that story to say he’s not sure then I’ll still argue the point but the theory that it’s not Khan gets stronger..

159. Basement Blogger - May 7, 2012

@ 156I Montreal Paul says,

“If Anthony was 100% sure and it was from an inside source that CONFIRMED it, then why would he report that these are UNCONFIRMED RUMORS?”

Sigh. Then TrekMovie must retract the “Major Spoilers” story.

“TrekMovie has also confirmed this with a number of sources so WE NO LONGER CONSIDER IT TO BE A RUMOR. . Khan is back in 2013″

http://trekmovie.com/2012/04/30/major-star-trek-sequel-spoilers-confirmed/

Again, TrekMovie ‘NO LONGER CONSIDERS IT TO BE A RUMOR.” Maybe we should ask Anthony if he’s 100% sure based on his sources. But when he writes that his sources indicate to hin “WE NO LONGER CONSIDER IT TO BE A RUMOR” then I think Anthony is pretty sure it’s Khan. Again, Anthony is very careful about what he writes.

Look, Bad Robot and Paramount are trying to keep this stuff under wraps for awhile. So they’re not going to confirm or deny it as Bob Orci loves to say. But assume this respected site has it right; and the many other sites has it right that it is Khan; they’re not going to say anything. If everybody was wrong, there’s nothing to lose by Paramount telling TrekMovie and others that they are wrong. That would be logical because people would be very interested in the next movie since we wouldn’t know who the antagonist is. But if it is Khan, then don’t say anything. Don’t spoil it with Khan fatigue.

But again, you ignore the strong statement that this site made ‘WE NO LONGER CONSIDER IT TO BE A RUMOR… Khan is back in 2013,” I’m not going to argue what is going on Anthony’s mind, because I don’t know. 100% sure? 90 % sure? Did he have his fingers crossed when he wrote that strong statement?

160. Montreal_Paul - May 7, 2012

159 Basement Blogger

Let me quote the article above…

“But of course, like with the Nimoy report, these reports are still officially rumors as nothing has been confirmed by the studio or anyone associated with the film. ”

Do you see the words… RUMOR, NOTHING HAS BEEN CONFIRMED…
That is a direct quote from Anthony above… read it yourself!

As for the quote from McGivers… you forgot the whole line:
“From the northern India area. I’d guess probably a Sikh. They were the most fantastic warriors.”

The “I’d guess” was wether or not he was a Sikh. He did say he was from the Northern India are.

Oh good Lord… now look what you made me do! I actually pulled out the Bluray to check the line. I AM the geek my GF says I am. *sigh*

As for retracting the “MAJOR SPOILERS” headline… no need… I do believe that the Klingons are in the movie.

161. Aurore - May 7, 2012

…A few years ago, if I remember correctly, Mr. Abrams was concerned about casting John Cho ( a Korean-American ) as Sulu ( a Japanese character ). George Takei had to reassure him that his character had originally been created to represent all of of Asia.

If he could worry about such details, I like to believe that he would be careful…were he to consider to tell a story involving a man from the Northern India area….

162. Basement Blogger - May 7, 2012

u@ 160

Montreal Paul

First let me address the line from McGivers. One must listen to the way she delivers it. “From the northern Inidia area. I guess. Probably a Sikh.” I heard that to mean she thinks but is not sure it’s the Northern Indian area. She’s not sure he’s a Sikh. “Guess” and “probably” are not like if she said, “He’s Indian. Born to Sikh parents.” And by the way, tthere’s nothing in the canon that says Khan’s parents are both Sikhs. Like I said, Khan Sr. assuming he’s Indian, could have planted his space seed in a caucasian woman’s ovary. Now should they cast an Indian actor if it’s Khan, yes. But Cumberbatch hit a home run in audition.

Now let me address your use of the quote from above.

“But of course, like with the Nimoy report, these reports are still officially rumors as nothing has been confirmed by the studio or anyone associated with the film. ”

You intepret this to mean that TrekMovie no longer stands by its previous story. Tha’ts not correct. Paramount has not confirmed the story so it’s considered “officially” a rumor. Paramount’s position is not this site’s, First Showing or AICN’s position. There’s nothing in this story that says TrekMovie, First Showing or AICN are backing down.

TrekMovie says this.

“TrekMovie has also confirmed this with a number of sources so WE NO LONGER CONSIDER IT TO BE A RUMOR. . Khan is back in 2013″

http://trekmovie.com/2012/04/30/major-star-trek-sequel-spoilers-confirmed/

You then say this,

“As for retracting the “MAJOR SPOILERS” headline… no need… I do believe that the Klingons are in the movie.”

Okay, that’s as silly as your argument that Cumberbatch dyed his hair black to show he was the villain. First, by your logic, there’s been no confirmation of Klingons. So that’s a rumor. And therefore the whole story should be stricken.

Second, this is a respected site for Trek news. Anthony would change the above line to say TrekMovie considers Khan to be a rumor. It hasn’t happened. The evidence and the sources give confidence that Khan is back in 2013. I’ve read this site a lot. I know that if TrekMovie makes a mistake they correct it. When Anthony says, “WE NO LONGER CONSIDER IT TO BE A RUMOR. . Khan is back in 2013″ then based on the evidence and the site’s sources, I believe it is not a rumor.

163. Tom - May 7, 2012

I remember reading somewhere for the last movie the had discussed early on about keeping Nimoys involvement a secret and decided against it. i believe i was Bob Orci who mentioned it.Maybe they tried for this one. If Shatners involvement leaks then JJ really blows a gasket. just kidding

164. Montreal_Paul - May 7, 2012

162 Basement Blogger

I DID listen to the way she said it. I actually pulled out the Bluray to listen to the line. “From the northern India area. I’d guess probably a Sikh. They were the most fantastic warriors.” She was saying that he was the Northern India are and guessing that he may or may not be a Sikh. It was very clear. I know there is nothing saying if his father was a Sikh… that is why she was guessing that part! And further to your arguement… the name Khan Noonian Singh is an Indian name – therefore his father was Indian. About your comment regarding Nora Jones – she has lightER skin but still looks Indian… not Caucasian.

As for your other point…
Headline – “Major Star Trek Sequel Spoilers”
Dated: April 30, 2012
““TrekMovie has also confirmed this with a number of sources so WE NO LONGER CONSIDER IT TO BE A RUMOR. . Khan is back in 2013″

Headline – “Nimoy Tweets On Star Trek Sequel Reports + Another Actor From Villain Casting Search Identified”
Dated: May 3, 2012
“But of course, like with the Nimoy report, these reports are still officially rumors as nothing has been confirmed by the studio or anyone associated with the film. ”

Trekmovie HAS backed down on “no longer calling it a rumor”. It’s there in black & white. Further to this, Anthony writes that Paramount will not comment on anything they consider to be a rumor.
“Before we start it is important to note that it is still the case that no plot or character information for the Star Trek sequel has been officially confirmed by Paramount or anyone associated with the movie. The following based on reports from other outlets and/or TrekMovie sources. As always, Paramount’s policy is to not comment on what they consider rumors.”

Like I said… I have no idea who Cumberbatch is playing… I’m just trying to show you that it isn’t obvious. I have just shown you that you cannot assume it’s Khan just by coincidences. Trekmovie is still calling it a RUMOR… NOT a confirmed fact.

It may be Khan… it may not be Khan. Like I mentioned… I am not buying into any rumors or speculation until there is a confirmation.

165. Geodesic - May 7, 2012

If Cumberbatch is another Augment then Khan could still be on ice somewhere.

166. RJ Macready - May 8, 2012

Right.

If Cumberbatch is another Augment from Botany Bay, then his character motivation may not be all that different from a script containing Khan. And so any re-writes would be relatively clean. Not saying ‘easy’, just relatively easier. Weren’t there some reports over the last few months about making changes during filming? It would also be a really cool twist on perspective to do that kind of a story. Where it is evocative of TWOK but also unique and unto itself. Maybe he is, as others have said, playing Joaquin.

We’d also have to assume that there might be a concern about a modern 21st century casting (which would be seen overseas as supposed to have known better) of Khan as a Brit in terms of how that will play in India. You know, India…with its huge movie-going audience to go along with all its past ‘affection’ for British imperialists. And if that concern is of any note whatsoever, the Bad Robot guys would be aware of it.

Look, I am probably deluded about this. I understand that much.

167. Basement Blogger - May 8, 2012

@ 164

Montreal Paul

I just watched Space Seed on Netlix. McGivers does not say it the way you wrote it. The way it sounds is this

“From the northern India area. I’d guess (Short pause) Probably a Sikh.” It’s not “I’d guess probably a Sikh.” That makes no sense. Why? Because it’s redundant. She’s not sure he’s a Sikh. The “I’d guess” goes to whether he’s from northern Indian. Regardless, she’s not certain of where he came from or his racial background. Yeah, the painting says Indian but as I point out, there’s wiggle room for the writers.

And while I will compromise and say that Khan is an Indian name, nothing in the canon says he could not be biracial. And I say that Nora Jones is not WASPish but the point is that she has light skin and has black hair. Hmmm. Cumberbatch dyed his hair.

Nothing in the canon ( the shows) indicates that both of Khan’s parents were Indian. He was genetically engineered. For all we know, Khan Sr. could have his space seed fertilize an egg of a Caucasian. And back to the name thing. Let me say I ran into a Caucasian with the last name of Wong. I’m an Asian so I asked this kid if he was adopted. He said no. His grandfather was Chinese. The point? Breeding can lighten skin color., hence this is a way for the Cumbrbatch casting as Khan. And by the way, I think they should have cast an Indian based on McGiver’s comments. Still, the writers have a way to get around the ethnicity issue.

You then take two quotes out of context.

1. You use this quote to argue a kind of retraction by TrekMovie.

“But of course, like with the Nimoy report, these reports are still officially rumors as nothing has been confirmed by the studio or anyone associated with the film. ” (From the above story.)

It’s “officially” a rumor to Paramount. It’s not a rumor to TrekMovie. There has been no retraction from this site, AICN or First Showing regarding Khan. Zilch.

2. Your use of the second quote is just plain spurious. It reminds me of you saying that I used IMDB to support my convictions which was a false statement.

You say, “Trekmovie HAS backed down on “no longer calling it a rumor”. It’s there in black & white. ”

To support that you use this quote;

“BEFORE we start it is important to note that it is still the case that no plot or character information for the Star Trek sequel has been officially confirmed by Paramount or anyone associated with the movie. The following based on reports from other outlets and/or TrekMovie sources. As always, Paramount’s policy is to not comment on what they consider rumors.” (Capital letters added.)

You don’t tell where or when that quote came from. It’s from the April 30 story,, “Major Star Trek Sequel Spoilers.” It’s not a retraction. THE QUOTE OCCURS BEFORE THE SPOILERS. It’s misleading to put that out as a kind of retraction.

But what does it mean? It means THAT PARAMOUNT CONSIDERS THE FOLLOWING SPOILERS TO BE RUMORS. The quote is not a retraction, it tells the reader know that the following are considered by Paramount to be rumors. However , this site does not consider the following spoilers to be rumors. Why do I say that? Because this quote comes AFTER the Paramount policy quote.

“TrekMovie has also confirmed this with a number of sources so WE NO LONGER CONSIDER IT TO BE A RUMOR. . Khan is back in 2013″

Got it? TrekMovie does not consider Khan as villain to be a rumor.. Paramount does since it has not confirmed it. But TrekMovie does not consider it to be a rumor. Black and white.

Regardless , at this moment there’s no retraction on the story.

3. Do you like flip-flops?

You then say,

“It may be Khan… it may not be Khan. Like I mentioned… I am not buying into any rumors or speculation until there is a confirmation.”

You are now taking both sides of the issue. You vociferously argue with me that it’s not Khan. (See 127, 153) , now you say it may be. Great. So if it is Khan, you can run around and say “I didn’t say it wasn’t Khan.” In fact, it’s disingenuous since you made no points that it could be Khan. At least I put some argument forward that it could be Gary Mitchell (See 154, )

I’ll go even further. I believe it’s Khan based on the evidence and Anthony’s sources. But if i”m wrong, I’ll say this “I was wrong in my estimation that the villain would be Khan.” However, I’ll stand by the evidence and Anthony’s story that Khan is coming in 2013. .

168. Montreal_Paul - May 8, 2012

Good Lord Blogger…

I am just refuting your arguments. I have no idea who it is. Like I said it could be or it could not be Khan… we don’t know yet. In your initial comment you were talking like you know without a doubt that it was Khan. All I was doing was showing you that it isn’t all cut and dry yet… all you have are coincidences that don’t necessarily point to Khan. I am not taking any sides on who it is… I am just giving you a different point of view. Like I said… it could be Gary Seven. And Alice Eve could be Roberta Lincoln. You have netflix… go watch Assignment:Earth and see how Gary Seven was able to get out of a neck pinch.

I am going to stop this right now because you obviously don’t know what a rumor is. You think just because it was written OFFICIAL RUMOR you think that it is a confirmed fact. A rumor is a rumor. A fact is a fact. Nothing states that it have been confirmed who is is playing… it is all just rumors right now. It is written EVERYWHERE on this site that it is still a rumor.

I’m done.

169. Basement Blogger - May 8, 2012

@168

Montreal Paul, “Like I said… it could be Gary Seven. And Alice Eve could be Roberta Lincoln. You have netflix… go watch Assignment:Earth and see how Gary Seven was able to get out of a neck pinch.”

Okay, I just watched Assignment Earth. And unlike you, I can see the other side’s points. Yeah, Gary Seven gets out of Spock’s neck pinch. And Kirk notes he has super strength. Could Cumberbatch be him? Possibly.

But there are two problems. One. The story above notes the were searching for a Hispanic actor. Seven was played by Robert Lansing. He’s not Hispanic and did not do the part as a Hispanic. Two. Seven is a good guy, this was a proposed new series. Cumberbatch confirms he’s not playing a good guy. He says this of his character, “.He’s not a good guy- that’s all I can reveal.” Entertainment Weekly. 5-11-12, pg. 24.

I still believe Cumberbatch is Khan. Am I 100% sure. No. But I am confident. By the way, Assignment Earth was an enjoyable episode.

You then say, “I am going to stop this right now because you obviously don’t know what a rumor is.”

Yes, I do know what a rumor is. The issue is whether TrekMovie considers the Khan is villain allegation as rumor. I’m not arguing the definition of rumor. You seem to have trouble with the idea that one party considers something a rumor whereas another does not. Let’s go over this.

From the story on this website, “Major Star Trek Sequel Spoilers.” April 30, 2012

“BEFORE we start it is important to note that it is still the case that no plot or character information for the Star Trek sequel has been officially confirmed by Paramount or anyone associated with the movie. The following based on reports from other outlets and/or TrekMovie sources. As always, PARAMOUNT’S POLICY IS NOT TO COMMENT ON WHAT THEY CONSIDER RUMORS..” (Emphasis added.)

So, what does that mean? Paramount considers the following spoilers to be rumors. Does TrekMovie consider the Khan allegation to be rumor? Read the following quote which followed the above quote in the same story. (Emphasis added.)

“TrekMovie has also confirmed this with a number of sources so WE NO LONGER CONSIDER IT TO BE A RUMOR. . Khan is back in 2013″

http://trekmovie.com/2012/04/30/major-star-trek-sequel-spoilers-confirmed/

So, does TrekMovie consider the Khan is villain allegation to be a rumor? No. Note the capital lettered portion of the quote, “WE NO LONGER CONSIDER IT TO BE A RUMOR.”

Here’s the scorecard as to which parties consider the Khan allegation to be a rumor.

The Khan is the Villain Allegation

Paramount=Considers it to be a rumor.

TrekMovie= No longer considers it to be rumor= true.

I just checked the story and TrekMovie has not retracted the above statement. Based on the story, Anthony’s sources and the evidence, I believe that Cumberbatch is playing Khan..

170. Jack - May 8, 2012

169. “Based on the story, Anthony’s sources and the evidence, I believe that Cumberbatch is playing Khan…”

Believe me, we know.

I don’t really get why you (and a few others on here) need to be right on this. Or, why you need us to acknowledge that you’re right. The few bits there are clearly, obviously (to all of us, not just you guys) point to Khan. Me, I’ll wait til I hear officially.

Like I’ve said a few times now, you probably are correct — yep, the signs point to Khan, but don’t eliminate the possibility of anybody else, yet, and, yep, sources say it’s Khan — so what? I’m still going to wait for official confirmation. It’s not personal — it’s not that were not believing you or telling you you’re incorrect.

I agree with you that there’s no evidence that it isn’t Khan. Yep, a non-Indian, non-hispanic actor could easily be Khan. Yes, Khan doesn’t need hair extensions (that’s kind of a silly point) and could easily have short hair. Yes, it’s unlikely that Cumberbatch would have dark hair just because he’s the bad guy, but there could be some other reason, other than it being Khan. Like I agreed a bunch of times, it sure seems to be Khan based on the few bits we have.

My point was, citing articles and posting links isn’t likely to change anybody’s mind — they see the same evidence you do. You’ve made this argument, and you did it clearly. Fair enough.

And, the word dude wasn’t meant to be insulting.

171. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 8, 2012

This is not a matter of taking sides. It is about waiting till the official word is released about who the guest actors are playing. Everything else is at the moment simply rumour and speculation. I await an official announcement from the owners of the Star Trek franchise, Paramount, or their official representatives, Bad Robot as to who Benedict Cumberbatch, Alice Eve, Noel Clarke and other guest actors will be playing. The characters/roles that the cucumber-patch and Alice Eve are playing have created the most curiosity and speculation.

12 months and 9 days to go…

172. Montreal_Paul - May 8, 2012

Holy Cr*p Blogger…

READ THIS ARTICLE ABOVE. YOU KEEP FORGETTING WHAT IS WRITTEN IN THIS ARTICLE. (Caps are intentional for emphasis)

Let me QUOTE word for word what is written ABOVE…

“But of course, like with the Nimoy report, these reports are STILL OFFICIALLY RUMORS as nothing has been confirmed by the studio or anyone associated with the film.

The above quote states that TREKMOVIE STILL considers them to be RUMORS. Period.

That being said… I am done debating this with you.

173. Montreal_Paul - May 8, 2012

Oh, and blogger… you wrote, “And unlike you, I can see the other side’s points.”

Ummm… I have written in my posts that it may be Khan and it may not be Khan. So yes, I do see the other points. I am telling you that I am NOT buying into any rumors or speculation until there is a confirmation.

174. JT - May 9, 2012

is not Khan…the wrath-we-know-way, since at least kirk has to be a admiral…
it may be khan, from the episodes, but then well need a actress to play a Horn-ey ensign or historical expert to fail in love with him, unless this khan is Gay and in loove with Joaquin, now in the other hand if my ESP dont fail me i believe the villain will be one from the eugenics war, a Thorsen like character from the Optimum Movement.

175. Basement Blogger - May 9, 2012

@ 172

Montreal Paul

From April 30 2012, story titled “Major Star Trek Sequel Spoilers.”

“TrekMovie has also confirmed this with a number of sources so WE NO LONGER CONSIDER IT TO BE A RUMOR. . Khan is back in 2013″

http://trekmovie.com/2012/04/30/major-star-trek-sequel-spoilers-confirmed/

176. Basement Blogger - May 9, 2012

@ 170

Jack says,

“I don’t really get why you (and a few others on here) need to be right on this. Or, why you need us to acknowledge that you’re right. The few bits there are clearly, obviously (to all of us, not just you guys) point to Khan. Me, I’ll wait til I hear officially.”

I was addressing the evidence to someone else. And two of you, refuted the evidence. That’s okay. So I had to defend the argument. For your example you used the “it’s not snow” argument. (See posts 127, 129)
Then we got into debate as to what TrekMovie considers the Khan is villain allegation.

Being right is not about the debate. i am defending the evidence. As I’ve said many times before I’ve looked at other options. Actually watched Assignment Earth and saw others points. Did not change my mind that i’s Khan. So all I’m doing is defending my conclusion. In fact, I gave you my statement if I’m wrong at 167. That shows how much I care about being right. It ain’t life or death.

177. Jack - May 9, 2012

Yep – still don’t see why you need to defend your conclusion. Or the evidence. It’s there, I see it. I’m just not convinced, and probably won’t be until it’s officially confirmed…

You’ve made it clear that you believe it’s Khan. Fair enough. My point was that spelling out your reasons isn’t going to convince anyone else…

178. Montreal_Paul - May 9, 2012

@ Blogger…

from —-> MAY 3, 21012 <—— story titled "Nimoy Tweets On Star Trek Sequel Reports + Another Actor From Villain Casting Search Identified"

"But of course, like with the Nimoy report, these reports are STILL OFFICIALLY RUMORS as nothing has been confirmed by the studio or anyone associated with the film."

THIS story ran AFTER the initial one you keep quoting… MAY 3rd!!!! Hello!!!

179. Basement Blogger - May 9, 2012

@ 177

Jack, I defended my conclusion because it came under attack. That’s fine. If you don’t like it, don’t read anything I have to say. (127, 129) Just ignore what I write. But if you challenge something I’ve written, I believe I have the right to fight for it. But again, if it bothers you that I defend what I’ve said, dont’ read it. You’ll be much happier.

180. Basement Blogger - May 9, 2012

@ 172, 179

Montreal Paul says,

“That being said… I am done debating this with you.”

I guess not.

This site has not retracted its conclusion that Khan is the villain and that it no longer considers it to be a rumor. It’s still on the April 30, 2012 story. When Anthony writes the retraction to the story, yoiu will be right.

The scorecard is this. Paramount officially considers the spoilers to be rumors. TrekMovie regarding the Khan allegation “no longer considers it to be a rumor.” Again, Anthony has not written that the April 30th statment that Khan is the villain and it no longer considers it to be a rumor to be incorrect. This “officially consider it to be a rumor stuff” is Paramount’s position.

You seem to be irritated. Might I suggest that you stick to your plan to stop talking to me as you stated in posts 168 and 172. I mean you have every right to continue to debate with me. But if it makes you so irritated, just ignore what I write. You will be much happier. Oh by the way, i did watch Assignment Earth per your request.

181. Montreal_Paul - May 9, 2012

Okay Blogger…

if you want to ignore that, in THIS report, that they are still calling this a rumor… fine. I have never, myself, seen a retraction to stories… I have just seen, just as in this case, information is updated in a new story.

If you don’t want to read the “still considered to be an official rumor…” that was written AFTER the April 30th story… fine.

If you want to believe rumors as fact… fine. Like Jack, I refuse to believe rumor as fact until it has been confirmed and not JUST a rumor.

182. Jack - May 9, 2012

“officially considered a rumor” is Paramount’s position. Anthony hadn’t retracted|deleted the statement that he considers the rumor to be true. All the stuff about Paramount and the production and tge word “officially” just mean, I think, that they haven’t confirmed or denied it (officially, anyway… but who knows who Anthony ‘s sources are.. ). I’m not challenging Anthony’s earlier statement.

Imagined message from Anthony to Bob a couple of weeks back: “If it isn’t Khan, the next time you write I keed in a post, put in an extra e”

183. Jack - May 9, 2012

Ps. Fair enough, BB. I guess we all (me especially) repeat ourselves on here. I do it when I think I’m being misunderstood. My only point was, repeating the same arguments and having the other side repeat they’re not convinced and plan to wait, well, it’s not really a debate. This isn’t something you can debate, Or refute.

Heck, you mentioned on another thread that you’re fighting with people over this.

184. Basement Blogger - May 11, 2012

Okay, I can change. There was a story that seems to single that TrekMovie is backing away from the April 30, 2012 story.

“So maybe TrekMovie and the other sites are all wrong and Khan is not in the film (and I admit this is entirely possible). I have also noted that reports of Khan are still officially rumors from Paramount’s point of view.”

You are now correct, Motreal Paul. TrekMovie has backed down.

http://trekmovie.com/2012/05/10/orci-star-trek-sequel-is-not-remake/

185. John David Tenhet - May 11, 2012

How will they introduce Khan into the new Star Trek universe they have created. Khan was found on a ship from the twenty first century in stacis in episode 23 of “TOS” called “Space Seed”. Will it be a sensationalized Hollywood remake of that episode, or will it have some original ideas. I think as true fans we want a totally new and original adventure. We have a fresh start in a new Star Trek “universe” let’s take advantage of today’s technology and do something Gene Roddenberry couldn’t have even imagined. Yes a difficult task but one I feel is worthy of an attempt. “Live long and prosper”.

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