2nd Star Trek Into Darkness Trailer Shown At BNAT Today – Get The Details | TrekMovie.com
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2nd Star Trek Into Darkness Trailer Shown At BNAT Today – Get The Details December 8, 2012

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Spoilers,Star Trek Into Darkness , trackback

As reported first by TrekMovie, the second (and longer) trailer for Star Trek Into Darkness will be showing next weekend. However, that trailer previewed today at the "Butt-Numb-A-Thon" 24 hour movie event in Austin, Texas. The first descriptions of that are now showing up. See below (but beware of spoilers). 

 

2nd Darkness Trailer Trailer: Cumby in the Brig + Chekov in Red

The second trailer (which Paramount is calling a "teaser trailer") was previewed this weekend at the Butt-Numb-A-Thon in Austin, Texas. The first description of the trailer was posted via a series of tweets by Devin Faraci of BadAssDigest.com.

Full STAR TREK trailer indicates hands against glass scene is actually Spock and Cumberbatch. If he’s Sybock… Well, kudos.

That said, Cumberbatch does NOT have Vulcan ears. Hands against glass scene seems to be Cumby in the brig.

Trailer opens with Pike VO, telling Kirk he has courage but no humility, and someday that will get him and his crew killed.

Oh yeah: there’s space stuff in the full TREK trailer. Space combat. Guy in a space suit zooming around.

In addition friend (and sometimes contributor to) TrekMovie Jordan Hoffman confirmed a few more details via Twitter DM:

And while it isn’t a description, Slashfilm’s Peter Sciretta’ gives this quick review of the trailer via Twiter…

If more details appear online, they will be updated with the article.

See it for yourself next weekend

As first reported by TrekMovie, this trailer longer trailer (which clocks in at 1:50) will be shown at Domestic non-IMAX screenings The Hobbit next weekend. Paramount has also announced it will be available online via Apple trailers on Monday December 17th.

Comments

1. Ahmed - December 8, 2012

Great, can’t wait to see it.

2. Capt. of the USS Anduril - December 8, 2012

OH NOES CHEKOV WEARS RED OMG JJ RUINZ STAR TREK!!!

Now that is probably going to be a lot of what is happening in regards to this. Personally…Chekov is the tactical officer. I say bump him up to Lieutenant and make him chief of security as well. That way we have 3 guaranteed-to-live red shirts.

3. Reign1701A - December 8, 2012

I called it. KIrk doesn’t wear the black uniform anymore, Cumberbatch is wearing it in the trailer. It’s Gary Mitchell, Spock is saluting his fellow officer.

4. JohnRambo - December 8, 2012

“Chekov appears in a red tunic (instead of his regular gold tunic)”

hmm……Gary Mitchell takes his place!!!

5. Anthony Pascale - December 8, 2012

Kirk certainly does show up in just the black shirt in the first trailer

6. Ashley - December 8, 2012

o.o *head explodes* Wanna seeee it! *grabby hands*

7. Roddenberry was a Peacenik - December 8, 2012

Unless that’s Garth of Izar shapeshifting into Kirk.

OMGZ ITZ PROOFS!!

8. Curious Cadet - December 8, 2012

This boy genius Checkov was wasted at Navigation/Ops, or whatever he did. This is evidenced by his work on the transporter. It could be security but I doubt it. I also don’t think this alone puts Mitchell on the bridge. Sulu is still the pilot, and Mitchell was the pilot in WNMHGB — for some reason the helm and navigator switched on that episode (kinda like they switched the sciences and operations badges and colors). Doesn’t mean Orci and Abrams realized this though, or that Mitchell didn’t end up a navigator in this timeline.

It could also tell us that we can no longer identify iconic characters from canon by their department colors. Dehner, or Rand, or McGivers?

Being in the brig certainly leans toward Mitchell, but it could also be someone like Captain Garth, arrested by Kirk, or Decker, or … Khan (or one of his augments, etc.) not sure this really gives us anything more than we had …

9. Reign1701A - December 8, 2012

Anthony: touche sir. I got screencapped. Still called it though.

10. SciFiJunky - December 8, 2012

Remember that in Space Seed, Chekov was not on the bridge (since the character hadn’t been created yet). But in the TOS movies, Chekov was the tactical/security officer. I see this new bit of information as more evidence that BC is, indeed, Khan.

11. Trekman - December 8, 2012

Gary Mitchell is the villain. Alice Eve is Elizabeth Dehner. It is quite odvious I think. Even if Gary Mitchell did seem to die in the comic book series, he might of not. Kirk shot him with a phaser cannon and they think he’s dead. They torpedoed him out into space in a capsule and that’s how he escapes and somehow comes back. That’s why Gary wants revenge on Kirk and the Federation. Besides, in the original episode Where No Man Has Gone Before, Kirk tried killing Gary with a phaser cannon even then. And it didn’t kill him.

12. Kardo - December 8, 2012

Just maybe… Just maybe it’s a totally new villain and story ?

Has anyone actually thought of this?

Why all the Gary Mitchell and Khan stuff????

So what if Chekov dies, this one pissed me off big time in the last film. Stupid OTT accent that no Russian has now or will have in the future.
In fact Chekov and Sulu busting up the jump to warp scene near ruined the film for me.

13. Rob - December 8, 2012

My theory on Mitchell. It goes like this: I say it might well be the ORIGINAL canon Gary Mitchell from the first timeline. According to the background info from the ’09 movie….Nero, the bad guy from last movie had been mining Delta Vega (not in the Vulacan system, TYVM) right before Romulus got blown to bits by Spock prime’s miscalculation.
What if (yes i know), he and his crew disturbed or woke up Mitchell who was not truly dead but in some sort of stasis (a la Jean Grey/Phoenix, if you will). He is able to get to Nero’s ship and escape/convalesce. With hius abilities it would be easy to hide and not be detected. Once he finds himself on this side of the new timeline, he is free to get the hell off of Neros ship and get his shit together waiting for Kirk to be born, and the chance to get revenge on the Kirk/Starfleet.
Garth of Izar is easier… no need to really explain except for why it would be personal between he and Kirk. It fits timeline without any Trek-nastics.

14. Josh - December 8, 2012

Interesting to think of why Spock would have that reaction to Cumberbatch’s character in the brig.

Perhaps it’s at the end, Cumberbatch is dying, but has “seen the light” and Spock is saluting that. Or that could be completely wrong

15. Curious Cadet - December 8, 2012

@7 Roddenberry was a Peacenick,

You know what … maybe!

I don’t know if you are kidding, but looking at the trailer that way, its definitely possible. And if it is Garth, they would be recreating a classic aspect of TOS.

Impersonating the most recognizable hero of Starfleet would certainly get Garth through a lot of doors, and/or frame Kirk for something.

And not that Kirk and others for that matter wouldn’t necessarily be seen in the black shirts, but its kind of iconic to Kirk in the first film (don’t recall anybody else in just the black shirt), and then to put Cumberbatch in it as well, AND have Kirk wear it at some point … Well it does raise questions …

16. Emperor Mike of the Empire - December 8, 2012

The Good ole days are back again at Trekmovie.
I think Cumberbatch is either Gary Mitchell or maybe Finnigan. Would not be surprised if he is Capt Garth.

17. Josh - December 8, 2012

7, 14 – I actually wondered if the scene where Kirk walks through the door (apparently to meet Cumberbatch, or at least that’s how it was cut) was actually Garth shapeshifted (if it is Garth). There was just a way Kirk looked that was…off.

But who knows. They have intentionally left things open enough so that it could be any of our chosen villains at this point.

18. Emperor Mike of the Empire - December 8, 2012

I think Capt Garth or Lord Garth would be likely. I would not be surprised if at someopne point that Sybok would be there.

19. Emperor Mike of the Empire - December 8, 2012

Alice Eve’s most likely either Dr. Denner or Carol Marcus. Nurse Chapel would be a 3rd choice.

20. Legend of Link - December 8, 2012

Hmm…Abrams and co. certainly know how to generate the buzz. Well done sirs! Can’t wait for next weekend!

21. Emperor Mike of the Empire - December 8, 2012

Could Charlie Evan’s make an apperance.

22. Emperor Mike of the Empire - December 8, 2012

I will be seeing the Hobbit next sat. Can’t wait to see the first 9 minutes of Star Trek. But. Will have to avoid Trekmovie for a couple of days. Lol.

23. Curious Cadet - December 8, 2012

@10 SciFiJunky,

It is an homage, no more, just like what we now know is a brig scene with Spock’s salute on glass.

If Cumberbatch looked or sounded anything like Khan, I might agree with you.

But also recall, Khan recognized Chekov, he never forgets a face. So just because Chekov wasn’t on the bridge when we saw it, could simply mean he wasn’t on duty then. He could have been on the night shift season one, and promoted to the day shift season 2.

Ad I seriously doubt they would make boy wonder Checkov a security officer. More like he would be working with Scotty.

24. gingerly - December 8, 2012

@5

At first I was like HOW DID YOU POST A PHO- and then I saw it was you. :)
But aw yeah, happy to see things back in full swing!

I think there will be many disappointed fans over the hand thing, if it’s not Kirk.

25. Emperor Mike of the Empire - December 8, 2012

I wonder how many people who will see The Hobbit will not even see it but are only there for the 9 Min Star Trek. Into Darkness and then leave. Lol. I’ll Stay for the Movie.

26. Rob - December 8, 2012

@ 20
I had thought about Evans. But it seems like a stretch given Cumberbatch’s voice over, which is laden with wisdom, albeit angry wisdom. Charlie was a CHILD. A naughty-ass one at that.

27. Aurore - December 8, 2012

“Full STAR TREK trailer indicates hands against glass scene is actually Spock and Cumberbatch. If he’s Sybock… Well, kudos.

That said, Cumberbatch does NOT have Vulcan ears….”
______

As I was saying the other day.

I need to see more of the villain in order to form a definitive opinion ( as to who he may be )….

:)

Otherwise….Fascinating….

28. NCC-73515 - December 8, 2012

Only domestic Hobbit screenings? No intl release at all?

29. Father Robert Lyons - December 8, 2012

Chekov did transfer to security/tactical before TMP, so we know that the carachter has the traits to successfully function in such a posting. No problem with his red shirt status.

Oh, wait… did anyone check to make sure Yelchin’s contract hasn’t been altered?

30. Rob - December 8, 2012

I believe (just personal opinion) that Sybok would be too much in the vein of making this a “Spock” movie. By all indications, this is about Kirk and his maturation into Wisdom. It HAS to be personal for Kirk.

Mitchell, maybe Garth, accomplishes that, NO?

31. Emperor Mike of the Empire - December 8, 2012

Hey Anthony. Here’s a great poll for Trekmovie.

1. See first 9 mins of Star Trek but leave before the Hobbit Start’s.
2. Will stay and see The Hobbit after 9 min Star Trek Trailer.
3. Will not see it and wait for Star Trek Into Darkness to premere on May 17th. .

32. Roddenberry was a Peacenik - December 8, 2012

@14 Curious Cadet

I was half-joking. See, I go back and forth on whether Garth fits all the facts. I still don’t know, but I started really considering him after that long post in the shot-by-shot thread, I can’t remember who it was by, where someone cooked up this theory about BC being some Skyfall type secret agent striking back at his organization. Anyone remember who posted that? Garth would work with that, since the perfect infiltrator would be a shape-shifter. It would also explain how he could get inside the heart of Starfleet command in San Francisco. (I’m guessing that the fire fight inside Starfleet HQ, BC bursting out of a glass window and Spock chasing after him are all one scene). Or how he was able to go unnoticed on a Klingon planet.

But I dunno. I still think we’re being led down a primrose path. I don’t think we know who it is yet.

33. Aix - December 8, 2012

I hope we hear Giacchino’s sublime score in this one. And nice to hear Greenwood doing VO. But Cumby’s narration in the announcement is just amazing! IM3’s The Mandarin got owned with that one.

34. dmduncan - December 8, 2012

Aah! So my initial impression was correct. Cumberbatch and Spock on the glass. Black sleeve gave it away. Was also right that it FALSELY created a TWOK impression.

So far so good.

What does that tell us? Friendship between Cumberbatch X and Spock. Why? Because they are crewmembers serving on the same ship?

And Cumberbatch in the brig. A nod to Gary Mitchell being in the brig in WNMHGB?

Yet more evidence that Khan is on ice.

35. Dee - lvs moon' surface - December 8, 2012

Oh my… I said

So it was not the hand of Chris Pine … ?? … then the “fetishistic” were wrong … humm?? … very funny!… LOL

36. SciFiJunky - December 8, 2012

@ 22. Curious Cadet –

I hope what you say is true. I don’t want it to be Khan, but feel in my gut that it is. My first choice would be Garth, followed by Mitchell. I really don’t see them doing the Gary Mitchell story, however.

Like many others have said on this site and others, TPTB would not make a movie the sequel to a story told in the IDW ongoing comic book series. Just don’t see that happening. Not enough people read the comics, and all the back story would need to be dumped on a general audience that has no clue. Just don’t see that happening.

37. Craiger - December 8, 2012

Wouldn’t they want to make a movie that general audience doesn’t need to know anything about even if they hadn’t even seen the first one? The general public who aren’t Star Trek fans who hadn’t read the Countdown Comics but would want to see the new Star Trek film because it looks like a cool action film? That’s how JJ did Trek 2009, the general audience didn’t have to know anything about Star Trek.

38. Joel - December 8, 2012

Not surprised that it’s Cumberbatch’s hand. No matter how you feel about the current team behind Star Trek, they wouldn’t blatantly copy the most memorable scene in the most popular Trek film.

Can’t wait for the full trailer (and the IMAX preview)!

39. Curious Cadet - December 8, 2012

@30 Roddenberry was a Peacenik,

I’ve posted theories like that, thinking mainly about The Bourne Legacy. Haven’t seen Skyfall. But so have others …

It’s very hard to figure out where Garth fits into this timeline, though I did read something about Kirk going on a peace mission as a plebe cadet in 2252 following Garth’s victory, so Garth would be relevant in this timeline, i.e. not yet insane. In the TOS episode, the actor who played Garth was 32, three years younger than William Shatner! But he had gray applied to his temples. Now Cumberbatch is 4 years older than Pine. So in that sense he makes for a more logical Garth than the original.

But considering Nero’s changing the timeline well before Garth would have become a captain suggests that his backstory could be significantly different. Perhaps a decorated super-soldier. And the fact that he is genetically predisposed to go insane, makes him a perfect candidate for taking on this kind of role. The shape-shifting is also compelling, in a Mission Impossible sort of way … Oh wait, who directed that? But it could also be sort of cheesy …

40. Josh - December 8, 2012

I think all articles about STID should with “Shall we begin?…” leading into the comments section…

41. Max - December 8, 2012

Chekov bites it.

42. Ashley - December 8, 2012

I still think it might be Garth of Izar, and I still hope it is. It would be the less ridiculous of the choices, and would fit better without needing to shoehorn this and that in. Only issue with Garth is the timing of things, at least in comparison to the prime timeline, but in the alt timeline it might not be an issue.

43. Richard - December 8, 2012

In b4 MJ comes in to tell us all the reasons it can’t possibly be Gary Mitchell/

44. Josh - December 8, 2012

39 – I think if Garth shape shifts, it may be downplayed. I think his regenerative powers have a lot more potential – giving himself super strength, etc., and other potential powers as well. Or maybe in this timeline he used his powers to do that stuff instead of shape shift.

But yeah, it’s possible that he got his powers, never threatened genocide (or maybe he gets away with it, which is how the story starts? Maybe that’s the war torn planet they’re going to?). There are a lot of ways they can wing this to make it work.

45. vva - December 8, 2012

Another issue is that the name “Garth” is ridiculous thanks to Wayne’s World.

46. motrock - December 8, 2012

Something that I have to consider is that we see both Kirk and Cumberbatch dressed in the black start fleet academy uniforms. That tells me this is a flashback scene to the academy days. Something happened to cause Cumberbatch to come back with a vengence. Has to be Gary Mitchell at this point.

47. njdss4 - December 8, 2012

Space combat? Yessssssssssssss! Damn well better be. Funny how we still don’t know who the villain is… Will the 9 minute preview even tell us?

48. Craiger - December 8, 2012

Or he is influtrating Starfleet or Khan and his people take over a Starfleet ship and wear their uniforms since they would have clothing from the 1990’s.

49. Ashley - December 8, 2012

@45 It’s not as ridiculous if you use his full title, ‘Garth of Izar’ or even ‘Lord Garth of Izar’, especially with his accent…

50. Ashley - December 8, 2012

@46 Actually, I think the black shirt is just the uniform undershirt, which means everyone wears it all the time anyway. Probably not academy-related.

51. drumvan - December 8, 2012

question, in the j.j. timeline was there an enterprise before the one we see built in the 2009 movie? or was this just a new version of an existing enterprise?

also, did spock and pike serve together in the j.j. verse on a starship prior to the events of st2009?

sorry if this is “old news” but my memory not so good anymore.

52. Aix - December 8, 2012

Errr. The brig? Like Loki in the Avengers HQ. Oh, please no!

53. Josh - December 8, 2012

47 – i’m guessing 9 minutes preview will not. I’m in the camp that the red plantet thing is a kind of lead-in adventure and that’s what the bulk of the 9 minutes is going to be. I bet it cuts off right before we learn who the baddie is heh. and there will be much screaming and swearing in the theater.

54. Ahmed - December 8, 2012

Somehow I get the feeling that Cumberbatch will outshine the rest of the cast.

55. Curious Cadet - December 8, 2012

@36 SciFiJunky,

As dmduncan reminded me on another article, Orci said the comics are only canon until the films say otherwise. The audience does not need to read the comic, if the film shows us the important events of WNMGB in the course of this movie, and there is nothing that says it has to happen the same way it did in the comic nor in the Prime universe. It could be a completely different story that evolves into this film. Khan’s background is so much more complicated I find it hard to imagine they could do the same with his story.

I’m still not convinced it’s Mitchell. But I seriously don’t think, and therefore hope, it’s not Khan. Either way, the comics aren’t unchangeable canon. It would be kind of a cheat if this is the way things turn out, but if it’s a good film, I think we can forgive them.

56. martin - December 8, 2012

@30- I disagree that Sybok makes it a Spock movie. Sybok drives a wedge between Spock and Kirk, which leaves Kirk more on his own to resolve the crisis – in Trek V it both weakened Spock while adding some depth to Spock.

The same would be true here. Further, I fail to see how Mitchell would have an emotional connection to Spock for this type of moment between them. This reveal leads me more to think it is Sybok.

I also fail to see how Dehner is tied to Mitchell. IMO Carol Marcus is the one that most would want to see, because that expands Kirk, and will lead to greater emotional attachment to Kirk for the audience.

I think it is Sybok and Marcus.

57. Dennis C. - December 8, 2012

Has anyone considered that it might, in fact, be Trelane? Just a thought. Ya’ never know. Wouldn’t that be a kick in the head?

58. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 8, 2012

That was the first question I asked – who says that anyone has to be dying? So it appears that Cumby’s character is in the brig and for some reason is receiving a Vulcan salute from a person wearing Starfleet blue. I wonder – is it Spock or maybe someone else? If it is Cumby’s character who is in the brig, why would he receive that salute? Maybe he is Vulcan or perhaps another Vulcan/Human hybrid like Spock. If Sarek and Amanda managed to create Spock, why couldn’t other couples, except that in *Cumby’s* case, the genetics giving rise to pointed ears are recessive, not dominant.

Although it has pointed out that *Cumby* does not have pointed Vulcan ears, if he were actually Sybok (Spock’s much older half-brother), he might have had himself surgically altered to fit in among humans, ie those who understood and did not deny the experience and value of emotions. Sybok wanted to pursue the path of emotion in order to achieve spiritual enlightenment and he was ostracized from Vulcan society because of his views. It seems that even his own family rejected him – he sort of became persona non grata…Given the circumstances of Vulcan being destroyed, Sybok has really gone off the rails and has become more confused than ever and has gone rogue. But it is very doubtful that he is the only one… The kind of power that he possessed in the prime timeline (at a later stage) could be even greater in this alternate timeline.

However, it does seem that Kirk’s family/friends have been hurt/killed. I am not quite sure why Sybok would attack those people who are of great importance to Kirk though…

All this guesswork is kind of fun but also a bit tiring as well…sigh.

59. fascinoma - December 8, 2012

Why the heck are people even thinking Sybok?!

Sybok was many things, genocidal maniac wasn’t one of them. It’s easier to see him as a Vulcan master, or for that matter living in a monastery in Tibet or working as a philosophy professor on Earth or as one of the first ship’s counselors, than it is to see him in Cumby’s role. He may have gone a little far, but his motivations still point toward a more spiritual inclination.

60. pilotfred - December 8, 2012

oh please let it be gary and not khan,it would of been cool if it garth however they have said the bad guy is from the first season garth is from the third season.there is some playing around with the order if you look at the comics they are not the same order as the tv episode so that yeah to garth however they said first season bad guy so please let it be gary and not khan

61. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 8, 2012

The black (under)shirt is part of regulation Starfleet uniform, so it is hardly surprising that you see Kirk wearing it here as well as in Star Trek 09. If Kirk is just/ONLY wearing the black undershirt, the question should be – why?

62. JeffreyNdallas - December 8, 2012

How about the first 9 minutes being a filmed version of the comics, with Mitchell story (WNMHGB) in short. This would set it up for the rest of the film? Just a thought…

63. martin - December 8, 2012

@51 – Archers Enterprise is still in the JJ-verse.

As the Gigantiprise appears most similar to the TOS Enterprise and has Pike as captain, I think that we are to assume that if in the original universe, it went NX-01 to NCC-1701, the same thing happens in the JJ-verse.

64. Curious Cadet - December 8, 2012

@45 vva,
“Another issue is that the name “Garth” is ridiculous thanks to Wayne’s World.”

Actually it sort of sounds like “Darth”. Should really stimulate those kiddies …

… And nobody remembers Wayne’s World … LOL

@49 Ashley,

I kind of think if it is Garth, he won’t have gone quite as insane by this point … So no “Lord Garth of Izar”.

65. Sharr - December 8, 2012

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Gary_Mitchell

The Gary Mitchell from the alternate reality created by Nero appears in the first two issues of the IDW Star Trek series; having been assigned to the Enterprise on Kirk’s request, Mitchell again succumbs to the barrier’s influence – a mind-meld performed by Spock confirms that there is no intelligence in Mitchell after the barrier takes over – but during the confrontation on Delta Vega, while Mitchell is tormenting Kirk, he is defeated when Spock sneaks up on the occupied Mitchell and delivers a Vulcan nerve pinch, incapacitating Mitchell long enough for his real self to take over and ask Kirk to kill him. Mitchell is then “killed” by a phaser blast. His body put into a torpedo tube and blasted into space like Spock in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. The Enterprise leaves Delta Vega’s orbit as Mitchell’s torpedo tube is left floating in space at the conclusion of this issue.

Keep in mind, the writers consider this comic series canon and part of their new timeline. How would it make sense to bring back an guy wanting vengeance, when he asked to be killed?

Two things, there is no Freedom of Information Act that applies to movie making. Actors, directors, producers are free to embellish or lie about the details of their films until they premier. Moreover, Karl Urban’s Gary Mitchell remark really has the feel of a joke which no one called him out on, and Simon Pegg‘s Khan denial – Lets just say, he doth protested too much…

Oh and I believe in any event they sign none disclosure agreements as part of their contracts…

And ah – They were originally looking at a *Latino actor* to play the part… But never mind all that, it makes more sense for a Brit to play a possible Anglo-Indian than a Latino anyway given the joint history of Indian and Britain. Just saying. It actually makes more sense than the original casting of Khan.

If its not Khan I’d settle for Garth of Izar – But not Gary Mitchell. The new canon in the on going comics series wouldn’t jive with that – ***He asked to die***. It’d be silly to bring back a half-powered Gary Mitchell mad because he wanted to be put out of his misery. Story wise you show your villain at his full strength until your hero can gain an advantage to beat him.

66. Martin Anderson - December 8, 2012

Just a thought. What if Spock’s half brother is Cumberbatch – Sybok.
What if in this timeline he took on the more human characteristics which plagued Spock in the prime timeline (as in ST V), And rather than seeking God, he is angry at the human race.

67. NuWisdom - December 8, 2012

@64 not to mention how Supernatural has amplified the ridiculousness of the name Garth, although this season they partially redeemed it.

@51 might then that Starfleet ship crashing into the water be the NX-01, possibly stolen from the fleet museum by Cumberbatch’s villian as a further symbol of ‘destroying everything the Federation stands for?’

68. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 8, 2012

What can cause people to flip out? Genocide was committed upon Sybok own people – Vulcans. Much of Vulcan may have rejected him because of his unorthodox views, but that does not stop him being Vulcan…

I don’t think that Nero was particularly genocidal either until Romulus was destroyed and he believed that he had been betrayed by the Vulcan Spock.

The message – we should take very good care of what we say and do, both as individuals and as a society…

69. fascinoma - December 8, 2012

Maybe people are worried about the name Garth because of Garth Brooks. And the thought of an insane, genocidal country singer is just too much to ponder.

70. Sharr - December 8, 2012

The other thing, the bad guy is doing an awful lot of “heavy lifting” in the trailers for a character who is supposed to have “godlike powers” if he’s Gary Mitchell. Remember Gary Mitchell *altered reality with his mind*. Wasn’t known for being able to leap tall buildings in a single bound… And let me say once more; It makes little sense to have a half-powered Gary Mitchell in your story as compared to a full godlike one. If you’re going to have him, he needs all his power.

And though I remember Garth shape shifting I don’t recall him having super strength. What we’ve seen indicates an augment or an android.

71. Curious Cadet - December 8, 2012

@60 pilotfred,

” however they have said the bad guy is from the first season garth is from the third season”

Actually someone on another thread pointed to a quote from Bob Orci on Trekmovie.com where he said he didn’t think the villain would be from the first season. So that rules out both Gary and Khan, and puts Garth as the front runner …

72. SciFiJunky - December 8, 2012

I also think it is very plausible that BC could be a Vulcan (whether hybrid or surgically altered) who is seeking retribution for the destruction of Vulcan. The Vulcan salute with Spock makes sense because they both share a connection to their destroyed home world.

The only reason I don’t think this is true is – would Abrams, Orci, et. al. really regurgitate the same plot from their first movie (a man seeking revenge for the destruction of his planet)???

Recycling the whole revenge motif is bad enough without adding more similarities for his motivations.

73. Sharr - December 8, 2012

Many of my friends who hear his soliloquy in the trailer agree that the villain sounds like a deposed dictator reasserting himself.

74. Sharr - December 8, 2012

Space Seed is a first season episode.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Seed

75. Richard - December 8, 2012

G
GA
GAR
GARY
GARY M
GARY MI
GARY MIT
GARY MITC
GARY MITCH
GARY MITCHE
GARY MITCHEL
GARY MITCHELL

76. Curious Cadet - December 8, 2012

@65 Sharr,

“Keep in mind, the writers consider this comic series canon and part of their new timeline. How would it make sense to bring back an guy wanting vengeance, when he asked to be killed?”

That’s what you get for reading a synopsis rather than the actual comic.

Spock performed a mind meld, something he did not do in TOS, discovered that there was no Mitchell there, and determined that Mitchell was possessed by an entity. Hence, when the entity was abated, Mitchell was allowed to come through, and suggest as any good Starfleet officer would, to kill him while they could before the entity re-asserted itself — Mitchell made the ultimate sacrifice.

The entity however, is pissed. And assuming we see some version of the comic onscreen — remember, Orci himself said it is only canon until the film contradicts it — then Mitchell sacrifices himself for his “family”, but the entity has other plans, and comes back with a Vengence.

If this is the story, the Galactic Barrier Entity is something no one has ever seen before. You think your world is safe? Think again.

77. Anthony Pascale - December 8, 2012

I must remind people that posting multiple comments in a row is not cool. Don’t try to spam your POV. Go for quality of thought not quantity

78. Mad Man - December 8, 2012

Yeah, the names of Garth and Gary are not particularly intimidating. The name Gary reminds me of Gary Shandling or Spongebob’s pet snail. And yeah, Garth reminds me of Dana Carvey from Wayne’s World.

I bet the studio would not be crazy about the names, either. Makes it harder to sell the toys.

79. Dee - lvs moon' surface - December 8, 2012

58. Rose (as in Keachick)

I guess… perhaps it is not the hand of Chris Pine nor the hand of Benedict Cumberbatch … or Zachary Quinto’s hand … perhaps are the hands of those stunt double who appeared in those leaked scenes… LOL

;-) :-)

80. dmduncan - December 8, 2012

Pro Garth:

He had a grudge against the Federation. He was a genius military commander. Cumberbatch X’s robe-like coat recalls Garth’s robe.

Con Garth:

Big hat, no cattle. He thought of himself as a god, but he was powerless. He’s a generation ahead of Kirk, while Cumberbatch X appears to be a contemporary.

Age-wise, I’d say the Peter Weller character is a better fit as Garth.

81. Curious Cadet - December 8, 2012

@76 Sharr,

“Space Seed is a first season episode”

So is “Where No Man Has Gone Before”, and Orci is on record as saying he didn’t think the villain would come from a first season episode.

82. porthoses bitch - December 8, 2012

I think we’ll find out who Cumby is very soon for the same reason that we havent found out who Cumby is yet… because JJ wants to control it. Marketing is gonna start ramping up…last thing JJ wants is to read is ”
“Mitchell” character confirmed by Pez employee (includes photos)”

83. Sharr - December 8, 2012

@76. Curious Cadet
I read the comic too… But I can’t really post my experience of the comic when a summery sort of helps better.

84. gumbygum - December 8, 2012

im guessing spock and cumby are gay in the film – has to be the only explanation

85. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 8, 2012

#72 – “Recycling the whole revenge motif is bad enough without adding more similarities for his motivations.”

What do you think is the biggest motivator for someone to go on a path of vengeance? Hurt or *perceived hurt being committed upon oneself, those family/friends and a society as a whole.

Some religious fanatics do revenge attacks on behalf of their god and religious notions. Perhaps the Cumby character is one of these people – Sybok (turned not so peaceful)?

Perceived – as in believed, maintained but not necessarily true.

86. Craiger - December 8, 2012

I just read an interesting theory over at IMDB one guy thought maybe Peter Weller is Khan and Cumberbatch is Joaquim. He thought Khan would be killed early in the film and Joaquim would seek revenge.

87. OtherGuy - December 8, 2012

He’s Charlie X-Man, get it?

It’s because JJ has to rip everything off to get a carreer going. Looks good, but it’s cheating someone.

I think it’s Charlie X-man. That rail-gun looks like something another superhero, the Green Lantern had conjured up in his last pic. Just like the Lantern’s used thier rings, Charlie is using his X-man powers.

Does Charlie get taken in by the Klingons 1st and then rebels, leaving distruction across the galaxy?

88. Trekzilla - December 8, 2012

It’s probably an original character. Aren’t we all going to look like idiots if it is.

I have a feeling it’s going to be Khan or someone new.

You guys know I don’t want it to be Khan but as lame as Hollyweird is now, that will NOT surprise me.

Give than fans something good like a return if Mitchell?

Yeah right.

89. SciFiJunky - December 8, 2012

#85 – Rose

I completely agree with you! That is a great motivator. But in the context of a Star Trek sequel, I can’t imagine the “Supreme court” would be so unimaginative as to recycle their last idea (like I said, the whole revenge thing is already too much for me in that respect – too many ST movies have been made with that focus).

I hope the third movie will travel another narrative path.

90. The Sinfonian - December 8, 2012

WNMHGB is a “zeroth” season episode, technically. It was made a year before Corbomite Maneuver.

91. imfoc-participant - December 8, 2012

Why does Sybok have to have Vulcan ears, just ,cuz in the original time line he had them in the only movie i’ don’t own, does not mean he has to have them in this time line after all his mother could be another human before Amanda.

92. DW - December 8, 2012

It’s Gary Mitchell!! Alice Eve is Elizabeth Dehner. Why do people think they’re anyone else? Seems obvious!

93. Nadeshiko - December 8, 2012

Just so you all know, the Cumberhand experts would like to disagree that the hand on the other side of the glass is Cumberbatch’s: http://cumberbatchcollection.tumblr.com/post/37516955621/itreallyisthelittlethings-top-is-benedicts

94. kevin - December 8, 2012

I always thought that Chekov was TOS chief of security, although I can pinpoint why I think this. He took the tactile station in TMP and it really seems the logical place esp since there is no designated chief of security for TOS crew.

95. Tom - December 8, 2012

Chekhov wasn’t on the deck of the enterprise in space seed. Yet khan knew him.

That’s how it is being rationalized in this movie. More evidence the villain is Khan.

96. pg - December 8, 2012

How ironic if it’s Mitchell… Watched Where No Man has gone Before tonight and in it Mitchell reminds Kirk “If I hadn’t aimed that little blonde lab technician your way…”… Which for my money is Carol Marcus, means that somewhere alone the lines Mitchell was responsible for the two meeting and getting pregnant with David.. So if this film does have Mitchell, maybe the blonde still is Carol Marcus?

97. JohnRambo - December 8, 2012

@92. DW
because Gary Mitchell is already dead in this Universe!

98. The Great Bird lives - December 8, 2012

Memory alpha claims that only “confirmed” cast would be outlined in blue on there Into Darkness section. If that is the case then Leonard Nimoy will in fact return as Spock Prime

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star_Trek_Into_Darkness

There is also several character, and, or race names that are listed as confirmed, but none ring a bell

99. Tom - December 8, 2012

The volcano is Ceti Alpha after the catastrophe that caused havoc on planet

100. dmduncan - December 8, 2012

93. Nadeshiko – December 8, 2012

Just so you all know, the Cumberhand experts would like to disagree that the hand on the other side of the glass is Cumberbatch’s:

http://cumberbatchcollection.tumblr.com/post/37516955621/itreallyisthelittlethings-top-is-benedicts

***

Those are definitely two different hands. Problem for me is this:

Faraci doesn’t really seem to be SURE it’s Cumberbatch on one side of the glass. First he tweets:

“Full STAR TREK trailer indicates hands against glass scene is actually Spock and Cumberbatch.”

Then he tweets, less certainly:

“Hands against glass scene seems to be Cumby in the brig.”

Well is that his hand on the glass or not? How it “seems” in a trailer does not matter because that could be tricky cutting.

So I can’t rely on Faraci’s impressions. I don’t know why he goes from certain to uncertain in those two successive tweets, but that’s all I need to understand that I have to see for myself.

101. dmduncan - December 8, 2012

I won’t rely on that Faraci bozo again.

102. Nadeshiko - December 8, 2012

Also, the CumberEars experts thinks his ears in Into Darkness are indeed a little bit pointy.

Normal:
https://twitter.com/frenchnavygirl/status/277580115762896896/photo/1

Into Darkness:
https://twitter.com/frenchnavygirl/status/277580159605952512/photo/1

(photos courtesy of @frenchnavygirl)

103. dmduncan - December 8, 2012

@102:

No. That 2nd photo is taken from the tail end of the trailer with Cumberbatch in that seat as Kirk enters the room to face him.

His ears are NOT pointed. It’s a trick of how the shadow is falling that makes it look like there’s some pointiness there. There is not. That’s his normal ear.

THAT one is settled.

104. Vorus - December 8, 2012

@91

Sybok would have to have pointy ears because:

1) He was born BEFORE Spock, thus his life should not have been altered by Nero’s incursion. Therefore, if the “Prime” Sybok did, this one should too, or it can’t really be the same person. (Barring a stupid plastic surgery cop-out.)

2) He, unlike Spock, is a FULL-BLOODED Vulcan.

105. No Khan - December 8, 2012

Gary Mitchell would have melted or eliminated that window not jumped through it.

106. dmduncan - December 8, 2012

You see how hard it is to establish things when we SEE with our own eyes and read information reported by sources we think are reliable???

Now try imagining how reliable it REALLY is establishing facts from remote aerial reconnaissance and then using that information to decide who gets the drone attack, and whose country deserves invasion.

107. Peter Loader - December 8, 2012

Not Mitchell. There’s no way Mitchell would let Kirk sock him on the jaw… ever… let alone while standing still. This is someone Kirk once respected a whole lot. This is man has no God like powers… temporarily disabled or not.

Mitchell run from Spock… I don’t think so.

Spock subdue Mitchell with a Vulcan nerve pinch… I don’t think so.

The trailer is entertaining but reveals very little about anything.

108. gingerly - December 8, 2012

@79

I agree with Dee, that hand is a stuntman’s!

Oh, I love my picky nerd compadres; analyzing the ears and hands of the man.

Human appearance with super-strength and a military acumen (him wearing someone’s uniform and apparently in command in one of those shots) points to Garth or Joachim for me.

I’m sticking with Joachim, for now!

I’m REALLY worried for Chekov and his red tunic(!).

Orci, I swear if you pull a Whedon on that cute little brainiac, I will pull a Liam Neesen in Taken on your behind…

Heck, I might do it for Pike even more. He was so awesome in the 2009 film.

So, those two are off-limits.

Keenser though? Yeah you can kill him (or her!..or whatever sex or nonsex that alien species has).

Question for everybody… Is there a villain that hasn’t been mentioned yet, that’s not in the poll, that’s not in season 1 that Cumberbatch could also presumably be?

A super-strong enemy who is human in appearance???

…What about a KLINGON? In Tos they didn’t look any different from humans (yes, I know it ridiculous, but come on people, new possibilities!).

109. Walt Kozlowski - December 8, 2012

If Cumberbatch is a human,why does he say” you think YOUR WORLD is safe”? He says he is back, so in the past he was on earth? Even if this is an alternate time-line, things can unfold differently but time still moves forward at the same rate. He seeks vengeance( Kirk? Earth?,Federation? etc), so he was wronged in the past and the movie takes place just after the last movie. How could a Space Seed type event happen to cause a WOK???? I think he isn’t human and the last movie has a clue!

110. gingerly - December 8, 2012

Heyyy!!! What happened to my post?!?

Well, I’ll ask again…

Can we discuss TOS villains that aren’t in the poll? Ones we haven’t done yet?

I still think it’s a toss up between Joachim and Garth…though I’m leaning towards Joachim.

But other than them…
and Khan
and Gary Mitchell

Is there anybody else Cumberbatch could be?

111. SPATAN555 - December 8, 2012

It is Gary Mitchell. The Blonde chic in the trailer is Elizabeth Dehner. Makes sense!

112. Peter Loader - December 8, 2012

108

My guess… he may not even be speaking about Earth. This movie takes place in several different locations.

113. Curious Cadet - December 8, 2012

@99 Tom,

You know, I was just abut to tell you how wrong you were about the possibility of the Volcano planet being Ceti Alpha V after Ceti Alpha VI exploded shifting the former’s orbit, because that happened 9 years later and Nero changing the timeline would not affect astral events — and then I thought about who we are dealing with …

Nero created a rift in space where there had been none before, and destroyed an entire planet. So I’m sure there’s a theoretical way for those events to somehow cause the destruction of Ceti Alpha VI 8 years sooner (Assuming Ceti Alpha V plays a role in this film).

I hate these guys …

114. Peter Loader - December 8, 2012

Sadly haircuts mean nothing… What’s the reasoning to do so?… just so people can point and say… look its Denher… no way.

115. Christopher Roberts - December 8, 2012

My money’s still on Captain Garth.

*sorry*

LORD Garth – Master of the Universe. :-)

Sybok’s not really a possibility here.

Earlier in the year, there was some footage of a scene being filmed – where BC was confronted by Uhura and an unsuccessful nerve pinch from Spock. There was a cut on his leg, that bled red blood. Shouldn’t it be green?

If it’s Cumberbatch on one side of the glass and Spock on the other, I assume it’s for some telepathic way of checking how insane Garth really is.

116. Captain Garth of Star Command - December 8, 2012

Cumberbatch is Balok. Eve is Rand.

Here’s how I figured it out – he’s in the brig because he got Rand drunk on Tranya, which, as we all know, is illegal onboard Starships as is Romulan ale.

Simple logic.

117. Garth 2020 - December 8, 2012

No No Cumberbatch is really that prick guy who got unthawed in the neutral zone episode of season 1 Next Gen.. He’s so ticked off that the earth humans didn’t leave him with his investment money, he goes back in time to take over the earth!

118. dmduncan - December 8, 2012

There’s a “briefing room” in the trailer which resembles the briefing room from WNMHGB, with the “halo” suspended from the ceiling around the table. That style room disappeared after WNMHGB. So it’s interesting that they designed a room that takes cues from the briefing room in that particular episode.

119. Let Them Eat Plomeek Soup - December 8, 2012

When I heard Chekov was in a red tunic, my first thought was “AH! They’ve travelled to an alternate universe!” when I realized they already were in one, and if that were true it would make a hella lot of AUs. So I’m not counting on that.

Cumberbatch’s hand? Guessing…that Spock and the villain had mutual respect for each other. And they demonstrated that as he lay dying in some sort of chamber.

Can’t wait for the trailer.

120. Disinvited - December 8, 2012

Chekov’s red is probably just his being assigned to Engineering so he can work the transporters while Scotty concentrates on the nacelles.

Why use superglass instead of a forcefield to jail a god?

Maybe Spock was doing his thru the wall mindmeld because BC was too dangerous to touch? Or maybe Garth has to touch what he duplicates?

Anyway, the meld was probably necessary to undo something the villain set in motoin probably in that volcano.

121. Steve Johnson - December 8, 2012

@12 Kardo

yeah, people have thought about that. The problem with that theory is we already have it on good authority that A. Cumberbatch is playing a villain, and B. That his character is a canonical character.

Ergo it’s not a brand new villain, but a new take on an old one.

122. I am not Herbert - December 8, 2012

interesting… and confusing… hmmm…. ;-)

123. Ahmed - December 8, 2012

Maybe like Khan in Trek II, Gary Mitchell was found by someone & he lost his powers by that time. He came back to Starfleet to take revenge.

Or maybe, he is a new character that we haven’t met before, even if Bob said otherwise in one of his comments.

Hopefully the preview will reveal who he is.

124. Dan - December 8, 2012

Check Vonda McIntyre’s novel “Enterprise”. Kirk and Mitchell are on an away mission and Kirk makes a mistake. Mitchell is severely injured – Kirk spends much of the story blaming himself.

These writers (watch Fringe) love alternate universes and the possibilities of similar events having different outcomes.

My vote is with the Mitchell theory. Similar, not same, scenario. Kirk does something that gets Mitchell killed. Mitchell comes back as the megalomaniac he didn’t get to become in the TOS episode.

At least that’s what I would guess. It looks intense, regardless. Hoping there is a bit more character development, depth and intensity, not like Dark Knight, more like MI3 or Casino Royale

125. Let Them Eat Plomeek Soup - December 8, 2012

@31:

May I add an option?

-Will go to see other movie, then hang around after finish to theatre-hop to the next showing of The Hobbit to see 9 mins of Star Trek movie. Then leave.

126. pgg - December 8, 2012

I think the guy from the neutral zone episode, who had all his money lost when he realized the humans woke him up too late, will be the Cumberbatch character.. he’s gone back in time to take care of the humans who ruined his investments:)

127. I am not Herbert - December 8, 2012

space stuff good… maybe… =(

probly just confounding, frustrating, as usual… =(

128. BulletInTheFace - December 8, 2012

To those saying Gary, Garth, Khan and Finnegan: Do you NOT hear Cumberbatch’s accent? NONE OF THOSE GUYS WERE ENGLISH.

He’s none of the above.

129. Captain Garth of Star Command - December 8, 2012

Chekov’s red shirt may indicate the mirror universe…the setup for a mirror invasion sequel.

130. Vorus - December 8, 2012

@109

Ben Finney (Court Martial)
Matt Decker (Doomsday Machine)
Captain Tracey (The Omega Glory)
Garrovick (Obsession)

Those are the only ones I could think of that were in Starfleet, (Assuming that’s even necessary) and that might have (or plausibly be given) a reason to want vengeance in Kirk and/or Starfleet.

Non-Starfleet personell could also include:

Harry Mudd
Kodos (The Conscience of the King) [He’s too old, I think]
Finnegan (Shore leave) [Seems like too much of a stretch]
Cochrane (Metamorphosis) [Again, a stretch, but he “I have returned” thing does fit]

Of those, only Garrovick, Tracy, and Cochrane are non-season 1, again, assuming that matters.

131. BulletInTheFace - December 8, 2012

And those saying Charlie Evans, Gary Seven and Kodos are just being ridiculous.

132. Ashley - December 8, 2012

What if BC is from the mirror universe? o_o Could there have been an alternate version of “Mirror, Mirror” in the year preceding the movie? Maybe something happened during that encounter that made him find a way into the regular non-mirror universe to seek vengeance. And what if he does so with the ISS Enterprise… 0_0

Okay, no.. no. Perhaps stretching it a bit far lol.

133. Vorus - December 8, 2012

EDIT

Decker is also season 2.

134. I am not Herbert - December 8, 2012

is nu kirk’s face always beat-up? everyone wants to punch him? still?

135. Captain Garth of Star Command - December 8, 2012

Mirror universe Trelane…starts a Klingon war with the Federation…by attacking a Klingon outpost.

136. BulletInTheFace - December 8, 2012

#71: Garth is definitely not the front-runner. He’s not even in the running at all.

And I can’t believe people are actually suggesting. Sybok.

Sybok? From the much-reviled Star Trek V? There’s no way such a project would ever be greenlighted.

137. I am not Herbert - December 8, 2012

yeah, Chekov is obviously an engineering-type in the JJ-verse…

138. moe - December 8, 2012

perhaps the villian its Dr.Sevrin before he bobbed his ears

139. BulletInTheFace - December 8, 2012

#100: Yes, but don’t go by anything Faraci ever says. The guy’s a complete hack with a horrible track record for being right. He’s almost as unreliable as AICN, and just as poor a journalist. That’s why no one takes him seriously.

140. BulletInTheFace - December 8, 2012

#112: It’s more than nine years.

141. Captain Garth of Star Command - December 8, 2012

Mirror universe Sybok?

142. Curious Cadet - December 8, 2012

@107 Peter Loader,

“There’s no way Mitchell would let Kirk sock him on the jaw… ever… let alone while standing still….Mitchell run from Spock… I don’t think so. Spock subdue Mitchell with a Vulcan nerve pinch… I don’t think so..”

Normally, I would agree with you. However, in the comic Spock did subdue Mitchell with a Vulcan nerve pinch while he was distracted tortuting Kirk. And as you know, the comic is canon.

As for the other things, keep in mind — if this is indeed Mitchell, it will be a Mitchell that has already been through the barrier and subdued by Kirk, most likely thought killed. Again, per Orci, the comic is canon until a movie supersedes it — so not really canon. And since we now know Mitchell is possessed by an entity, anything is possible, including the entity potentially being controlled by someone like Weller after Mitchell is revived and studied.

143. dmduncan - December 8, 2012

137. BulletInTheFace – December 8, 2012

#100: Yes, but don’t go by anything Faraci ever says. The guy’s a complete hack with a horrible track record for being right. He’s almost as unreliable as AICN, and just as poor a journalist. That’s why no one takes him seriously.

***

I don’t know, follow, or read him, and it took me 37 seconds to figure that out.

144. Ahmed - December 8, 2012

Anyone seen “Jeff, God of Biscuits” around ?
He was right about the trailer, maybe he have some more information that he can share with us.

145. Dave1119 - December 8, 2012

#140: How do we know Mitchell is possessed by an entity?

146. Aix - December 8, 2012

@142 Hope he did not get sacked for revealing stuff too early :)

147. Curious Cadet - December 8, 2012

@138 BulletInTheFace,
“#112: It’s more than nine years.”

How do you figure? The last movie took place in 2258, Orci has said this film takes place about a year later, Ceti Alpha VI exploded six months after Kirk left Khan there in 2267. That’s about 9 years. What am I missing.

148. The Squire of Buttocks - December 8, 2012

I wish it was Trelane but It’s not.

149. Dennis Bailey - December 8, 2012

#137: “Yes, but don’t go by anything Faraci ever says. The guy’s a complete hack with a horrible track record for being right. He’s almost as unreliable as AICN, and just as poor a journalist. That’s why no one takes him seriously.”

And yet they know so much more than you.

150. MJ - December 8, 2012

Well this new info completely rules out Mitchell. Mitchell and Spock did not get along — there is no way that they would share a hand on the glass barrier moment like is shown in the new trailer.

Sorry DM Duncan and Montreal Paul, no Gary Mitchell in the new movie.

151. Curious Cadet - December 8, 2012

@56 martin,

“I also fail to see how Dehner is tied to Mitchell. IMO Carol Marcus is the one that most would want to see, because that expands Kirk, and will lead to greater emotional attachment to Kirk for the audience.”

I agree with this as well. Dehner would have to be a completely different person in this timeline (which of course is possible), and while she offers some kind of symmetry with WNMHGB, doesn’t really offer much beyond that than any other Starfleet ESP expert (and there can’t just be one in the whole galaxy). Meanwhile Carol Marcus brings a significant opportunity for character development for Kirk, and possibly even Mitchell (assuming its Mitchell) who may have also had a relationship with Marcus before he turned her onto Kirk (assuming it works out the same way this time).

I would also accept Kirk’s Ruth from “Shore Leave”. He obviously had a significant relationship with her too. And finally Areel Shaw from “Court Martial”. Both of these women could have been the lab tech Mitchell set up with Kirk. The key is, they are major relationships that Kirk had regrets over and is does far more for the story than some random character who was only relevant because she was likewise originally affected by the Galactic Barrier too.

@145 Dave1119,

It’s in the comic. Spock performed a mind meld with Mitchell and determined he was possessed, that it wasn’t Mitchell at all.

152. MJ - December 8, 2012

@142 “As for the other things, keep in mind — if this is indeed Mitchell, it will be a Mitchell that has already been through the barrier and subdued by Kirk, most likely thought killed. Again, per Orci, the comic is canon until a movie supersedes it — so not really canon. And since we now know Mitchell is possessed by an entity, anything is possible, including the entity potentially being controlled by someone like Weller after Mitchell is revived and studied.”

You do realize how silly this sounds, don’t you? Come on dude, this is just laughable. LOL

153. Ahmed - December 8, 2012

@ 150. MJ – December 8, 2012

“Well this new info completely rules out Mitchell. Mitchell and Spock did not get along — there is no way that they would share a hand on the glass barrier moment like is shown in the new trailer.”

Also, it rules out Khan.

154. Curious Cadet - December 8, 2012

@150 MJ,
“Mitchell and Spock did not get along”

In the Prime Universe. All bets are off in this one.

Seriously, what film franchise are you watching?

Besides, in the comic they seem to get along fine. Mitchell even suggests Kirk play chess with Spock, to which Kirk responds, because Spock is still upset with him over the Kobayashi Maru … Reminding us that Spock did NOT get along with Kirk in this universe despite being fast friends in the Prime.

Nice try. Sorry …

155. Red Dead Ryan - December 8, 2012

We can’t really expect to get many (if any) answers from the trailers, as the clips are out of sequence, and thus, out of context.

I’m just glad we’re not getting a remake of “The Deadly Years” that some on this site were clamoring for not so long ago…

156. Captain Karl - December 8, 2012

All the talk about it being Garth is just silly. Garth is a contemporary of Pike, which means he would be much older than Kirk. Cumberbatch is just too young looking to be Garth.

157. Les - December 8, 2012

Guess I’m the only one who’s willing to wait until we get more information, instead of speculating like crazy. Personally, I don’t really care. I loved the last movie and Benedict Cumberbatch is in this one. I will go see it, no matter what character he’s playing or what anyone else says about it.

158. Sebastian S. - December 8, 2012

I would love to see the villain be Mitchell too, but does anyone have an accounting of how Mitchell suddenly acquires a posh British accent?!? Did he go to an English boarding school in the Abramsverse? Just curious.

And how does he lose the glowing eyes? Did he evolve beyond them? Again, I would love to see a big screen Mitchell (as I’ve said repeatedly on prior threads on this site), but now I’m genuinely torn. I think it could very well be a new character.

IMO Garth of Izar (“Whom Gods Destroy”) is too nerdy for anyone to get really excited about outside of hardcore Trekkies. I doubt a multimillion dollar movie rest on Garth’s unstable shoulders. And sorry but the Khan theory is just plain stupid; the movie would look ridiculous if Cumberbatch were attempting to play north Indian born-Khan, who would not in any way be altered by the new timeline as he was born long before it’s creation. Just saying.

I would love it to be Mitchell, but after the trailers I’ve seen (the US and Japanese versions)? I have doubts. I’m thinking it might be a new character after all (as I voted for in two polls on this site).

159. Red Dead Ryan - December 8, 2012

If they are doing Gary Mitchell, I would think that the WNMHGB comic would be pretty much disregared, as we’re getting a four issue “Countdown” prequel comic that precedes “Star Trek Into Darkness”. The origins of Mitchell and how the crew deal with him would be reworked so that we aren’t seeing yet another incarnation of “Where No Man Has Gone Before”.

160. MJ - December 8, 2012

It’s Khan folks — now confirmed here — this gets deleted from this site when I try to post is, so try this below to see the confirmed news story

Type in Austin 360 dot com (using a real dot) and then paste the rest of the link immediately below here

/videos/entertainment/new-star-trek-trailer-promises-dark-sequel/vjtpF/

Yep, just as I’ve said for 1.5 years. Yep!

161. MJ - December 8, 2012

(play the video in link above for the full confirmed news story)

162. MJ - December 8, 2012

“Khanfirmation” at last. Just as I predicted, and just as Anthony confirmed in his story that 90% of you refused to accept.

163. Red Dead Ryan - December 8, 2012

Remember, Patrick Stewart played a French Captain with a British accent. My guess is, that he couldn’t credibly do a French accent and so, instead of struggling with a bad French accent which would have been silly, and took away from the credibility of the character he was playing, he spoke with his own. Nobody really cared from that point on.

It could be a similar situation with Benedict Cumberbatch, if he cannot do a credible and belivable American accent, then its probably best that he stay with his own. Although I’d have to think doing an American accent would be easier than a French one.

164. dmduncan - December 8, 2012

Faraci has been dismissed. He doesn’t know WHAT he saw. Best evidence now says that’s PINE’s hand on the glass, not Cumberbatch’s. Tweet’s to your right.

165. Richard - December 8, 2012

What are you on about MJ? That link doesn’t prove anything. The person who wrote that doesn’t know who’s playing the villain any more than we do. You’re so desperate to prove your theory that you’ll take any scrap off the web as “proof”.

166. Nony - December 8, 2012

People arguing the hand thing are forgetting about foreshortening – the hand might not be flat, but facing slightly away, shortening the nails and making the fingers look shorter and thicker. The pinky shape matches Cumberbatch’s, as do the thumb bones.

167. NCM - December 8, 2012

Can we get a Chris Pine hand, please? Where’s Keachick when you need her?

Can’t imagine what Sybok would wish to avenge going about it by attacking Earth and Enterprise crew.

168. MJ - December 8, 2012

@165. So this reporter and Anthony were both wrong with their confirmed news stories? Both of them???

Obviously, this reporter has heard from someone in the press who saw the 9-minute sequence in Japan — for that preview the press was urged not to provide any details until December 14th.

169. Nadeshiko - December 8, 2012

@160 MJ

Nice try.

170. MC Doctor - December 8, 2012

Geez, my head is almost spinning and that means JJ and the gang have won. We’ll do anything to get to BOTH versions of the Hobbit to see the first nine minutes and then the other trailer.

Not to mention sleeping in line for days to get into STID first in May. And we did the same silly thing for STMP (and man, it was cold as I was living in Wisconsin then).

Bob Orci is also having a ball, sitting back and reading the forum. I used to torment my kids before Christmas, they knew I knew all but kept them guessing. Evil fun!

Well played guys..

171. NCM - December 8, 2012

160. MJ – December 8, 2012

“It’s Khan folks — now confirmed”

Thanks for the link, MJ, but they don’t say anything about the info. source, so maybe just going on what Anthony reported on, previously, and it would seem Anthony has some doubts, now: but maybe he’s just playing along.

We won’t know soon enough!

172. Richard - December 8, 2012

MJ. you use the word obviously as though you know for sure. You don’t.

Also Anthony’s ‘report’ was only speculation. He’s said so himself.

173. MJ - December 8, 2012

“TrekMovie has also confirmed this with a number of sources so we no longer consider it to be a rumor. Khan is back in 2013…”
— Antony Pascale, 30 April 2013

“No longer considered to be a rumor” means that it’s not speculative, Richard.

Nice try!

174. MJ - December 8, 2012

meant 30 April 2012

175. Randall Williams - December 8, 2012

What makes you people believe that the characters in the JJ verse will
be and act the same as in the original timeline? Anything is possible
and that is the exact reason JJ decided to make Trek into a
alternate timeline — to free the series from established canon in order
to invent new stories. You all keep comparing the JJ verse characters
to the TOS ones which is a mistake – a understandable one at that,
which leads you to incorrect conclusions. Simply because one or
more characters in TOS act in a certain way does not necessarily
mean those characters will act in the same way in the alternate
timeline. Simpy forget the TOS timeline existed in the first place and
you may have a better psychological approach to JJ verse and arrive
at more accurate conclusions.

Just saying. Think it over.

176. dmduncan - December 8, 2012

MJ, the poor woman in that video sounds like she knows even less than we do. She provided NO source for that piece of “breaking” news. She didn’t even reference the EXISTENCE of a special source that she broke the news from. I expected to hear some new information, and instead I got a woman reporting as confirmed fact who she BELIEVES the villain is, when it appears her only source of information is the trailer!

MJ, you are too close to this thing. You really should take a break.

177. Richard - December 8, 2012

What dmduncan said. x100000

178. MJ - December 8, 2012

@175. Exactly. They have taken significant artistic licence obviously here in giving us a different take on Khan. And if BC’s performance delivers like it looks it is going to, 99% of the people seeing the movie are not going to care about Khan’s Indian name or that he doesn’t look like Montelban. I repeat, 99% of the people are not going to care if BC hits this different version of Khan out of the park.

Randall, thanks for putting this overarching viewpoint/philosophy of the Supreme Court’s thinking here into words — I have the same viewpoint, but couldn’t really pull it all together like you did here. Bravo!

179. dmduncan - December 8, 2012

That woman reports that we finally got our answer with THE TRAILER. Uh, no we didn’t! So THAT’S her source. Because she saw the trailer and SHE thinks it’s Khan, she thinks everybody thinks it’s Khan, and that the secret is out.

Hilarious.

180. MJ - December 8, 2012

@176 @177

Again guys, so Anthony and this reporter are BOTH wrong???

PS: DM, I noticed in recent posts with me here you are not mentioning Mitchell as much. I get that are pretty confident it’s not Khan, but am I reading your recent posts correctly in that you are perhaps backing off from it being Gary Mitchell?

181. MJ - December 8, 2012

Also guy, why would Trekmovie.com be blocking me on posting the full URL link for that reporters story? I find that odd?

182. Richard - December 8, 2012

MJ, the site auto deletes any posts that contain profanity and URL links (with the exception of a couple of sites). There’s no big conspiracy against you.

183. Richard - December 8, 2012

Its to avoid spam and links that may be to illegal/obscene material. Its all automated.

184. dmduncan - December 8, 2012

175. Randall Williams – December 8, 2012

What makes you people believe that the characters in the JJ verse will
be and act the same as in the original timeline? Anything is possible

***

Nope. Not if they are following their own rules.

This is not a BSG type reimagining here, folks. When Nero makes his incursion into the “past” in ST.09 he creates a branched off alternate universe at the moment of his incursion as per MWI/QM which we KNOW Bob followed in designing his new rebootiverse.

And what that means is that there IS NO separate rebootiverse prior to Nero’s incursion. So everything is the TOS universe until the point of Nero’s incursion. And since Khan is in a sleeper ship launched from the 1990’s WELL BEFORE that future incursion, and since the incursion creates a duplicate universe that is exactly the same except for what transpires during and after the incursion, then Khan is STILL in a sleeper ship at the moment of incursion, and more importantly, he is STILL THE SAME CHARACTER in the rebootiverse that he is in the prime universe.

Nero’s incursion isn’t going to change THAT.

Those are BOB’s rules, not mine. Those are the principles he dedicated himself to in the creation of this new franchise.

So they ARE limited by their own ST.09 rules in how they portray Khan.

185. MJ - December 8, 2012

@183. I and others have posted numerous links here without problem though? Yea, it could be an automated glitch like you suggest, or it also could have been a manual blocking entry that Anthony or his staff put in when the realized that this reporter had violated JJ’s direction to the media to not comment on what was revealed in the 9-minutes of footage shown to the media in Japan last week.

It certainly is odd this THIS PARTICULAR LINK was not allowed to post here?

186. Justin Olson - December 8, 2012

How about Colonel Green found aboard a 21st Century sleeper ship by the Klingons?

He breaks loose, commandeers a Federation starship (and gets a uniform) and then attacks Earth. He escapes to another world and the Enterprise is the only ship left and they have to go after him?

187. CoolPT - December 8, 2012

Could it be a Decker? Maybe Matt after he emerged from the Doomsday machine and came into the new timeline? Or maybe his son Will, who merged with VGer and can transend time and space.? Now THAT would be a cool movie!!!

188. Justin Olson - December 8, 2012

#186 Cont’d:

http://imageshack.us/a/img805/3387/phillipgreen2cent.jpg

http://scifanatic.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/stid-t1-14-tt.jpg

189. CoolPT - December 8, 2012

That would explain how Spock and Cumby touched hands in the japanese trailer version, like when Spock merged with VGer..!

190. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 8, 2012

“Trailer opens with Pike VO, telling Kirk he has courage but no humility, and someday that will get him and his crew killed.”

#164 – “Best evidence now says that’s PINE’s hand on the glass, not Cumberbatch’s.”

This is interesting. I don’t think anyone is dying. I think it more likely that the person is in the brig. Perhaps it is Kirk behind “bars” and Spock is acknowledging his motivation and courage, even though it meant that he has to do time, because he may have disobeyed a direct order…

Chris Pine described Kirk as “selfish”. I don’t agree that he was selfish in the first movie, however lacking humility could make him self-important and full of hubris, which is not quite the same as being selfish. Promoting him to captain so quickly could bring about this over-confidence and even careless attitude towards taking advice from other crewmembers like Spock or Dr McCoy and from a superior officer, like Admiral Pike. Now he has to do some time and eat humble pie…

MJ – “They have taken significant artistic licence obviously here in giving us a different take on Khan.”

The have taken significant artistic license obviously here in giving us a different take on –

Gary Mitchell
Garth of Izar
Sybok
Chang
Lt Riley
Kodos
Kruge
Kor
Kang
and any number of people I have not mentioned that belong to the TOS TV and movie series, as well as Star Trek: Enterprise.

Just a valid. Think about it.

191. MJ - December 8, 2012

@184. The flaw in your thinking is that you make it sound like these are real people and universal causality would be violated by a change in Khan?

Take this point here. Do you believe that the Eugenics Wars happened in the 1990’s and 50 million people died, and some superhumans escaped into space?

Of course you don’t believe that. So maybe Khan doesn’t look and behave exactly the same as in those old episodes that showed him in TOS and the movies. I mean, the whole backstory for Khan has broken down now anyway, so not is great time to reinvent him a bit, move the Eugenics wars to 2030, and modify his family story, etc.

This is hopefully providing you with what they call an “ah hah” moment.

192. MJ - December 8, 2012

meant to say, “…so NOW is a great time…”

193. dmduncan - December 8, 2012

180: “PS: DM, I noticed in recent posts with me here you are not mentioning Mitchell as much. I get that are pretty confident it’s not Khan, but am I reading your recent posts correctly in that you are perhaps backing off from it being Gary Mitchell?”

I’m not sure who it is, and I’ve never said otherwise. I go with the best evidence, so when that changes, I change. If you are asking whether I am abandoning Mitchell, the answer is no. I still have Karl Urban’s comment, Alice Eve’s hairstyle, the description of him being a one man WMD, and Cumberbatch X’s Hulk-like jumping ability that I have to account for.

On the negative side, he doesn’t have silvery eyes and he doesn’t behave like the Mitchell at the end of WNMHGB. Either he’s Mitchell and that gets explained, or he’s not.

He’s described as a one man WMD, but we don’t see THAT side of him in the trailer either, so there is obviously more to this character than we see in the trailer, and the trailer is NOT giving us a complete picture of him or the source of his power.

Until I see that I cannot know who he is. But I think I see enough to know who he is NOT. Gary Mitchell is still a possibility. Khan, not so much.

194. dmduncan - December 8, 2012

191. MJ – December 8, 2012

No, it has to do with whether Bob (and JJ) are going to be true to what they did in ST.09, or completely abandon the logic of their own thought processes for THAT film to put Cumberbatch in the role of Khan in THIS film.

Obviously it is possible for them to commit those violations, i.e., there’s no physical law that can prevent them if that’s what they decide. I just think they are better than that.

I mean, believe me, I am TRYING to see Cumberbatch as Khan, and I DO see the obvious TWOK references…but I do not SEE KHAN anywhere.

195. Dave in RI - December 8, 2012

I think I’ve reached the point where I no longer care who the villain is. The secrecy, all the endless speculation–I have grown tired of it. I think I’ll take a break from reading all the comments for a while; I’m getting a headache.

196. MJ - December 8, 2012

@194. Fair enough. I get what you are saying.

Are you seeing the IMAX preview? I am seeing it on Saturday night next weekend.

197. dmduncan - December 8, 2012

196

You kidding? Hell yeah! I WON’T be able to keep myself out of the theater!

If it’s playing Thursday night I may go late and take Friday off. Can’t wait!

198. Son of Sarek - December 8, 2012

Consider these other possibilities:

Rojan – the Kelvan from “By Any Other Name”
Henoch – from “Return to Tomorrow” possessing body of Captain Garth
Garth of Izar – insane Starfleet Captain
Flint – the immortal humanoid from “Requiem to Methuselah”

199. MJ - December 8, 2012

@197. Cool!!!!!

I am killing two birds with one stone and going to a theater that is showing The Hobbit in 48FPS 3D. I am very curious about how that is going to look — apparently people either love it or hate it.

200. rogerachong - December 8, 2012

One old piece of news occured to me. If you check the first old pic of the Klingon on JJ Abrams monitor you realise it actually is from STID. Note the background and you will see that this is one of the klingons from that scene where Cumberbatch kisks their azzes.

201. dmduncan - December 8, 2012

199

If it’s as clear as they say it is, sounds like moviemakers will have to up the quality of their makeup, sets, and costuming if they want them to be believable in the 48 fps format.

202. MJ - December 8, 2012

FROM BERNIE’S BASEMENT BLOG:

Friday, December 7, 2012

First Star Trek trailer indicates the villain is Khan

The first trailer for the next Star Trek movie has come out. Star Trek Into Darkness opens on May 17, 2013. But we get clues as to which villain Benedict Cumberbatch will play. I believe it’s Khan.

First check out TrekMovie.com’s excellent breakdown for the trailer. Now, I’ve posted my thoughts on that post as Basement Blogger. On this site, I will do the same but also embed the Japanese version of the trailer below because it has a couple of extra scenes.

This trailer indicates the bad guy is Khan. Let’s take a look at the voice over narration by Cumberbatch.

“You think your world is safe? It is an illusion. A comforting lie told to protect you. Enjoy these final moments of peace for I have returned to have my vengeance.”

First, we know that Cumberbatch’s character is canon. In the trailer, we see that he’s a human. He exhibits super-strength in dispatching Klingons. He also is seen wielding a laser weapon. Now if he’s Gary Mitchell from the original series, Where No Man Has Gone Before, he would use telekinesis. Of course, the comment about vengeance makes sense for Khan since he was exiled or fled from earth after ruling a large section of the planet as a tyrant. See the original series episode, Space Seed.

Alice Eve. She plays a character that is also canon. If Cumberbatch is Khan, then she is Carol Marcus, the mother of Kirk’s son. First, her hairstyle is similar to Marcus’ from the movie “Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.” In the trailer, check out the romantic looks between her and Chris Pine’s Kirk. Eve prepared for the role by watching all the original series episodes. She seems to have focused on Kirk. Why would she do that? My guess is to create chemistry between her character and Kirk.

Couple this trailer with the evidence. There was a search for a Hispanic actor to play the villain ala Ricardo Montalban from The Wrath of Khan; and the commentary on the 2009 movie about a scene with the Botany Bay, Of course there is the TrekMovie story which confirmed Cumberbatch is Khan.

It’s Khan, my fellow Trekkers.

Update: One thing I forgot to mention. There’s a scene in the Japanese trailer where it looks like Spock is trying to touch another hand through glass. It’s a clear reference to the scene in The Wrath of Khan where a dying Spock “touches” Kirk through the glass. Both are Spock’s “Live long and prosper” hand signal. More evidence that this new Star Trek will feature Khan for better or worse.

203. I'm a trekkie NOT a trekker - December 8, 2012

It’s Odo from the mirror universe starting the Dominion War early!!

204. tdogtim - December 8, 2012

ATOZ the LIbrarian! The younger version..

205. MJ - December 8, 2012

@203 @204

A cross-dressing version of Elaan of Troyius perhaps?

206. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 8, 2012

On reflection, Sybok does not have any motive, unless someone can think of a possible motive.

207. Troubled with Tribbles - December 8, 2012

BC could be playing a genetic copy of Khan. While it would technically be Khan (hence the rumors we’ve heard so far), it wouldn’t be the Khan from Botany Bay.

After the Nero incursion, Starfleet (Section 31?) feels unprepared for what’s out there and decides to turn to the Augment program despite the moral and legal issues associated with that (perhaps hinting at what some people see as the US reaction after 9/11). Starfleet goes to Cold Station 12 and brings back embryos to Earth, possibly to London. These augments are raised in London and eventually join Starfleet as covert soldiers, or something along those lines. For some reason, Starfleet must turn their backs on or betray the Augments causing them to be killed or captured. This would explain Khan’s new British accent, the destruction of London from the teaser poster (where he was ‘born’), and his hatred of Starfleet.

Just my opinion! :)

208. dmduncan - December 8, 2012

LOL! I think BB needs to open a window and let the marijuana smoke clear out of his basement for a while!

Here’s Carol Marcus:

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=dr.+carol+marcus&qpvt=dr.+carol+marcus&FORM=IGRE

Now here’s Alice Eve in character:

http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/news/a443837/alice-eve-talks-joining-the-enterprise-in-star-trek-into-darkness.html

Similar hairstyle, BB? Similar hairstyle? Let me show you a similar hairstyle:

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=dr.+elizabeth+dehner+star+trek+photos&qpvt=dr.+elizabeth+dehner+star+trek+photos&FORM=IGRE

209. dmduncan - December 8, 2012

BTW, Sally is beautiful in those old pics.

210. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 8, 2012

#202 – The trailer does not give any credible evidence that Cumberbatch is playing Khan, just that he is back with a vengeance.

211. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 8, 2012

#207 – Bear in mind that the Carol Marcus would be about 20 years older than this timeline’s Carol Marcus, so it is possible that Alice Eve could play her. If she is Carol, then she and Kirk are likely making more than gooey eyes at each other…coming soon, the patter of tiny feet, unless something utterly monstrous happens to Carol and/or other to set Kirk off on a personal manhunt. Just saying…

212. dmduncan - December 8, 2012

Alice Eve is not even listed on the credits at the trailer site. How important is her role?

213. Gary s. - December 8, 2012

Revenge for the destruction of Vulcan?
He could blame humans for not saving his world.

214. Red Dead Ryan - December 8, 2012

It’s possible that the nine-minute trailer doesn’t reveal the identity of the villain.

Now, that is a pretty slim chance, considering the length, but I wouldn’t put it past J.J Abrams, whose quest for total secrecy is clearly obsessive.

The nine minute clip could be made up of the prologue, which only hints at who the villian is.

215. Red Dead Ryan - December 8, 2012

In fact, I am leaning in the direction of the trailer not revealing who Benedict Cumberbatch is playing.

I would not be surprised if the trailer focuses more on Peter Weller’s character, who we have not seen at all in the first couple of trailers.

216. Brandon - December 8, 2012

I just had a wickedly delightful thought. What if we have all been wrong about who Benedict Cumberpatch is portraying here, and instead of Khan, Gary Mitchell or Garth of Izar, he is REDJAC. It would make sense as to why he is coming back to Earth for Vengeance. It would also explain a ravaged London in the movie poster!

217. Tesla's Cat - December 8, 2012

I proposed Sybok on an earlier thread for two reasons: the mention of protecting family, which I assume to be the remaining decimated Vulcan population, and because I assumed the hand on the glass was Benedict’s. In that scenario, we might assume that there is jeopardy to the Vulcans, perhaps caused by the Federation in some way, hence he attacks Earth. Wouldn’t like that scenario though, as it’s too similar to Nero and none too original.

218. Trek Fan - December 8, 2012

@ MJ – Wow dude… you are starting to sound desperate now. You are reaching at anything to save face. That reporter is just reporting on what she is reading online. She is probably referencing Trekmovie’s article. It was referenced on many other sites and reports since Anthony ariginally posted it. She mentioned no sources in her story. No “sources confirm…” Do you not think other media outlets would report it before that reporter had? She never said it was an exclusive, etc. I would think places like Trekweb or treknews or any other Trek site would have the jump on some internet news wannabe.
And with the new info posted in this article above… it is showing less and less that it is Khan. I see hommages to TWOK but nothing shows that this is Khan. Sorry MJ. I tend to agree with dmduncan all this whole thing.

219. Curious Cadet - December 8, 2012

@178 MJ,

” if BC’s performance delivers like it looks it is going to, 99% of the people seeing the movie are not going to care about Khan’s Indian name or that he doesn’t look like Montelban.”

With all due respect, you are kind of missing the point and taking all the fun out of this. And this is supposed to be fun.

1. I totally agree that for literally 60% of EVERYONE who sees this movie, and assuming it’s Khan, they could care less whether He is played by Brad Pitt or Samuel L. Jackson. It won’t matter to them because they aren’t Star Trek fans and have no idea who Khan is anyway. And of the other 40% who do know and care, I agree they will probably come around as well if Cumberbatch does as well as people are saying. But I think it’s more like 10% representing the apoplectic hard core Trek fans who will declare a jihad on Abrams.

2. But this isn’t about that. It’s about playing a fun game with the filmmakers, where they give us clues based on certain rules, which dmduncan so elegantly outlined, the net result of which is that we should all be surprised and delighted upon finding out the actual solution. It’s about the producers being as clever as they represent themselves to be, because it’s they who initiated these games. It’s about some of us ultimately getting close, but happily nowhere near as clever as they are. It’s about being entertained.

So if Abrams is changing the rules of the game, then all of this is just going to be wasted goodwill, and a tedious waste of our time, which will lead to resentment and a backfire should Abrams attempt a third film. Because that’s not what this is supposed to be about. And MJ, your “victory” will be resoundingly hollow if you “win” this way. But then perhaps that kind of thing is fun to you. Personally, when I discover the dealer is using a marked deck, I tend to want to punch him in the nose, even if we’re playing for peanuts. Cheating is cheating.

I could care less if Cumberbatch is playing some reimagined Khan, but if that’s what they’re up to, then don’t play the game as if they’re not cheating.

That said, as I wrote yesterday, I suspect the reason Abrams is previewing the opening 9 minutes of the film, is because it is amazing and audiences will be blown away. But I also suspect that he’s going to reveal such a significant change from fan’s expectations that the only way to overcome that before announcing it in print, or otherwise teasing it in trailers, is to win over audiences, creating a buzz so positive even a begrudging acceptance from the fans will not spoil it.

However, if that change is Khan, while I won’t be necessarily shocked, I will be gravely dissapointed. And I suspect so will many others who took Arams up on his little guessing game, and he will sacrifice a lot of goodwill for it.

And I understand it too, if this is what they’ve done. After all, if they had cast Cumberbatch and announced he was playing Khan, the fans would have been screaming bloody murder from January until now. But playing a rigged game is not the way to do it either. So if it turns out to be Khan, then good for you. But we’ll all know it means nothing because you weren’t playing the same game the rest of us were. And that’s what this is about.

220. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 8, 2012

Is it a fact that the preview will show the first nine minutes of STID?

A preview is not the same as a prologue.

221. Red Dead Ryan - December 8, 2012

#220.

Well, I’m not sure. But if “The Dark Knight” is anything to go by, then it will most likely be a prologue.

If the whole nine minutes features various random clips, then the nine minute preview will feature little context, and the whole thing might be a waste.

222. MJ - December 8, 2012

@219 “So if Abrams is changing the rules of the game, then all of this is just going to be wasted goodwill, and a tedious waste of our time, which will lead to resentment and a backfire should Abrams attempt a third film. Because that’s not what this is supposed to be about. And MJ, your “victory” will be resoundingly hollow if you “win” this way. But then perhaps that kind of thing is fun to you. Personally, when I discover the dealer is using a marked deck, I tend to want to punch him in the nose, even if we’re playing for peanuts. Cheating is cheating.”

You are missing my point completely. Dude, the Eugenics Wars never happened in the 1990’s. Khan never came to be 20 years ago and never escaped Earth. This destroys the whole backstory of Khan from TOS, and frees up the Supreme Court to create a more modern backstory for Khan, and to change him a bit.

223. Astrophysicophile - December 8, 2012

In comparing the synopsis, poster, and trailer to villians of TOS, I see that:

1. “unstoppable force of terror” – Redjac

2. “from within (the crew’s) own organization” – Garth

3. “detonated the fleet and everything it stands for” – Garth is a genius and a fleet captain and might have the ingenuity and access to hack into the computers of all the ships in the fleet and setting them to self-destruct or to crash into the Starfleet and Federation institutions on Earth and then self-destruct; Redjac can control the computers of ships like the Enterprise

4. “war-zone world” – Axanar

5. “one man weapon of mass destruction” – If Garth is possessed Redjac, he will be a one man WMD

6. “epic chess game of life and death” – In “Whom Gods Destroy”, Garth played a chess game of life and death against the crew of the Enterprise; Redjac hates all that lives and thrives and feeds on death

7. The city of London on the movie’s poster – Redjac slew at will in the heart of the most populous city of old Earth

8. Cumberbatch’s character speaking with a British accent – If Garth is possessed Redjac, he might speak with this accent (but then Hengist and the Enterprise did not, although Jaris already did)

9. “your world” – Garth is from Izar; Redjac, from who knows where

10. “You think your world is safe? It is an illusion. A comforting lie told to protect you. Enjoy these final moments of peace” – In “Whom Gods Destroy”, Garth was offended when Kirk spoke of the Axanar peace mission, and called Spock truly blind for agreeing with Kirk’s statement that the humanitarians and statesmen of the mission had a dream that made Spock and him brothers, a dream that became a reality and spread throughout the stars; Redjac feeds on fear and terror

11. “I have returned” – Garth studied and is headquarted on Earth; Redjac slew at will on old Earth

12. “to have my vengeance.” – In “Whom Gods Destroy”, Garth felt betrayed and barbarically treated by his crew, Starfleet, and the Federation; Redjac feeds on fear, terror, and death, plus in “Wolf in the Fold”, it was beamed into open space by the crew of the Enterprise of the prime universe

13. Eve’s character screaming in horror – Redjac hates women, and preys on women because they are more easily and more deeply terrified, generating more sheer horror than the male of the species

224. Nadeshiko - December 8, 2012

@207

I love your theory! There was someone from another topic(I think it’s the shot by shot analysis of the trailer) who posted something along those lines. Anaxagoras of the south(?).

It would make a lot of sense and it’s super cool.

225. MJ - December 8, 2012

“But playing a rigged game is not the way to do it either. So if it turns out to be Khan, then good for you. But we’ll all know it means nothing because you weren’t playing the same game the rest of us were. And that’s what this is about.”

I am just reading the clues and trying to figure out what the character is, and I determined it was Khan a long time ago. I am on record from way back then in saying that I would prefer a fresh villain, and that it not be Khan, but I am pretty certain its going to be Khan whether we like it or not.

I am not going to rejoice over the fact that it’s Khan, but I will certainly be happy that my prediction is proven true given the 1.5 year of people telling me here that I have been basically full of shit. So yea, I’ll enjoy the vindication,but it wont’ be because I wanted the villain to be Khan — it will be because I was right all along here despite the pier pressure to cave into others’ wishful thinking about it no being Khan.

226. Red Dead Ryan - December 8, 2012

#223.

C’mon dude, stop spamming your “Redjac” theories. It’s not going to be Redjac!

227. MJ - December 8, 2012

@219 “But I think it’s more like 10% representing the apoplectic hard core Trek fans who will declare a jihad on Abrams.”

Well, 10% of Trek fans already hate JJ for Trek 2009, so these same 10% can go back to hating him again for putting Khan in Trek 2013.

Whoopdie Fracking Doo!!! :-)

228. Red Dead Ryan - December 8, 2012

The Talifans who hated J.J Abrams before “Star Trek” ’09 are still going to hate him, for now, and forever.

Some people can’t be pleased.

229. MJ - December 9, 2012

@227. Exactly.

RDR, the trailer has totally reinvigorated the “its Khan” deal for me. I was starting to have some doubts, but have now regained my Khanfidence.

230. Astrophysicophile - December 9, 2012

223. Sorry, “possessed Redjac” should be “possessed by Redjac.”

231. Lance W - December 9, 2012

1. Gary Mitchell
2. Garth of Izar
3. George Samuel Kirk, Jr.
4. Joaquin Weiss
5. Khan
6. Sybok

Hey…how about Will Decker?

232. Astrophysicophile - December 9, 2012

225. Who do you think the villain is going to be?

233. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 9, 2012

Perhaps BC’s toes may give a clue as to whose those hands belong to…:)

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lphyb8FEFh1qci2z0.jpg

234. Lance W - December 9, 2012

How about, in an odd twist of irony, Spock Prime was carrying Data’s hologram chip (and BC is playing Professor Moriarty) and it falls into the hands of the robots that constructed Mudd’s women and they created a holo emitter for him, and he has returned to exact vengeance on Earth for the future abuse of holograms? :)

235. Anthony Thompson - December 9, 2012

Two teasers, the first 9 minutes (shown in Japan) and STILL the villain remains unidentified! JJ is a genius. We’ve only unwrapped the first few of many layers protecting his mystery box. : )

236. ThePhaige - December 9, 2012

I think that Eve will play Carol Marcus. To me this looks like an apocalyptic themed affair and Marcus could be embarking on the lifelong study of Genesis in the form of the “device” which at this time is just a theory, but will lend some credence to the heady prophetics perhaps. Im leaning towards Mitchell on BC as he is the epitome of the Biblical Antichrist like archetype, being as a god and the master of all destruction. Im thinking somehow he is resurrected from the seeming death…perhaps the entity who possessed him has lowered his life signs so he appeared dead. Found by the Klingons who find him in a much weakened state which is why he needs weapons early on but as he gains more power the race against time to stop him is on again. The Klingons learn that he must be stopped before becoming unstoppable… Except he escapes and he reaches earth. Look for a pseudo religious movement perhaps led by Weller who have ancient scrolls (like the Bible) that prophesy Mitchell’s form of anti-god coming. They will think of him as a savior on earth as Mitchell regains his strength he will begin to turn as he did on board the Enterprise when he was defeated by Kirk the first time. This is the vengeance piece. Kirk and crew will attempt to warn earth of the impending doom coming from Mitchell. He may perhaps spearhead the end of war with the Klingons or some such event to gain allegiance and gratitude of the citizenry of earth causing a mass rejection of Kirk and crews concerns, maybe even ordering the crews arrest. At which point Kirk gives one of his famous ” I’m going on this mission alone” speeches ,and then the crew all fall in line volunteering to go along, expressing ” Thats what family do we stick together” etc. Just a theory

237. Nadeshiko - December 9, 2012

Gaaahhh!!! Now I double posted something!

@230.
I’m sorry but I don’t think it will be Redjac possessing someone. As Cumberbatch said, he may be ruthless but he’s not completely evil. His morality might be somewhere along the lines of Colonel Green(I don’t think it’s him either.) And I think BC’s character was saving Kirk, Spock, and Uhura from Klingons. He didn’t have that I’m-going-to-kill-you-now-you’re-cornered look which Redjac might have; it’s more like what-the-hell-are-you-two-doing-here look.

238. Disinvited - December 9, 2012

#199. MJ

Try this:

http://www.wsoctv.com/videos/entertainment/news-/vjrn9

239. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 9, 2012

Has there been official confirmation from Paramount Pictures and/or Bad Robot about this latest assertion that the villain is Khan?

Anthony? Bob Orci?

240. Nadeshiko - December 9, 2012

@238

None.

241. Astrophysicophile - December 9, 2012

236. As I mentioned in 230, I think Cumberbatch is playing Garth, who is not completely evil, but is possessed by Redjac. And Redjac itself may not really be evil; because of its biology, it needs to feed on fear, terror, and death in order to thrive.

242. ThePhaige - December 9, 2012

My guess is that was an assumption and sloppy journalism. I just cant see this being Khan. Actually I think when Urban quipped about BC playing a great Gary Mitchell it was a purposeful comment meant to have people go “well it definitely isn’t Gary Mitchell” and do we know for sure that the casting of Benicio Del Toro in fact fell through or perhaps that was a ruse also. I never heard anything from Del Toro on that. Has he even spoken about it? Not coming to terms on monetary issues was all I have heard. Perhaps a red herring.

243. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

@223. Astrophysicophile,

“‘unstoppable force of terror’ – Redjac”

I actually like your proposal vis-a-vis Garth. I think Garth before he went off his rocker in some sort of alt universe depiction where he’s a ruthless military Hawk heading down the path to madness would be a fascinating character study. And timely. He sees the Vulcans as liberal peacnicks, who now without their planet are just a bunch of welfare recipients, making up the Galaxy’s 47%. Refugees who are setteling some other planet to make their new home world and relegating the natives to second class citizens.

But I kinda have to draw the line at Redjac. Just like I can’t see Khan and Mitchell in the same movie. Both characters are so complex that to introduce both would be clumsey and just confuse the audience. Garth’s morphing abilities as some have suggested are adequate to enhance his physicality as needed.

But you did make me stop and think for a moment. “unstoppable force of terror” is an interesting phrase that we haven’t been concentrating on here. The fact is, there’s very little in the Star Trek universe that constitutes real terror. So I see why Redjec comes to mind. He was indeed pure terror. And to suggest that we take that word literally is actually kind of disturbing, it conjures up serial killers, and Nazi concentration camp doctors, and the worst of mankind. But I don’t think it’s that. I think like most of this press release, there’s a lot of word play, and in this case terror means terrorism. Just like detonate is most likely not literal, but povocative. In other words, acts of terrorism with an objective, not strictly to sadistically frighten and horrify people as the other word implies. So Redjac is not needed here. Just a zealot unafraid to do whatever is necessary to further his cause, and that’s Garth. It’s also what makes him conflicted for the audience. He’s not really evil, but simply fighting for what he believes, even if the rest of us don’t agree.

244. Mark James Tucker - December 9, 2012

173,
I am sorry but I dont accept that as official confirmation.
As i said In all likelyhood that was an early story treatment they were going by.
Nimoy and now quinto debunked that Nimoy was coming back as Spock Prime, which was also “CONFIRMED” in that story.

Why can’t you just wrap your head around the fact that its very possible that the Confirmation Anthony was given was based on OLD info.
seriously.
Either that or change your All Knowing, everyone else is clueless postings that you have now returned to.

Can you even offer a reason as to why spock would press his hands against the opposite side of the glass that Cumberbatch’s character is also pressed to.

These people saw the full trailer YOU have NOT, So i take their word on it more than some “CONFIRMED” article which was allready atleast partly debunked months ago and again last week.

And what happened to being gone for a week and a half and not posting?

245. MJ - December 9, 2012

“And Redjac itself may not really be evil; because of its biology, it needs to feed on fear, terror, and death in order to thrive.”

I just don’t see this being credible in a major motion picture. It worked fine in a tv episode, sure, but it isn’t compelling or believable enough for Trek 2013.

246. Optimistic Doodle - December 9, 2012

“Full STAR TREK trailer indicates hands against glass scene is actually Spock and Cumberbatch. Hands against glass scene seems to be Cumby in the brig.”

Caution the the words ‘indicates’ and ‘seems'; the actual context might be subtly different than the interpretation of this one description. Perhaps (again) a smart montage playing tricks.

Now, having Cumberbatch in a brig – at some point in the movie – is a real possibility. But ‘glass’?
To me a glass/plexi barrier seems more natural in a science or medical area, which would nicely match the obvious emotional intensity of the scene. And wasn’t a lab a shooting location?

Other observations:
Hence the light, exposure. Seems neutral; no alarm lights, so unlikely a stress situation in Engineering.
Also, notice that both hands touching appear to be left.
And in the announcement trailer, that glass plate appeared to stop (be open) if you watch the clip closely towards the right. Though it’s hard to be absolutely sure.

Let’s just wait to see this trailer ourselves! Because I can’t believe that is a Cumberbatch-hand. And why are these few new description so brief? Surely someone must have remembered more :-)

And I wonder if the Japanese version will be longer.

247. MJ - December 9, 2012

@243 “Why can’t you just wrap your head around the fact that its very possible that the Confirmation Anthony was given was based on OLD info.
seriously.”

Why then hasn’t Anthony, who is very active on this site now, backed off from his story? What is your answer to this?

“Nimoy and now quinto debunked that Nimoy was coming back as Spock Prime, which was also “CONFIRMED” in that story.”

That wasn’t the same part of Anthony’s story. That part Anthony didn’t state was confirmed by multiple sources, nor did he say that is “wasn’t a rumor anymore.”

“And what happened to being gone for a week and a half and not posting?”

I explained that to you last night and you know it. Dude, stop being an ass about it, please. Like I said, curiosity got the better of me — I couldn’t wait. What is your problem with that? Sheesh, I thought we had established a better relationship here lately — why the animosity towards me all of a sudden?

248. Lance W - December 9, 2012

Just throwing it out there…what about Will Decker?

249. MJ - December 9, 2012

@245. “Now, having Cumberbatch in a brig – at some point in the movie – is a real possibility. But ‘glass’?”

I’d like to see how you would break out a 23rd century brig where the walls are “Transparent Aluminum.” ;-)

250. MJ - December 9, 2012

@247. He probably still in Star fleet Academy at this point in the timeline. He was at least 10-15 years younger than Kirk, right?

251. Lance W - December 9, 2012

@249 He can’t be too far behind….he’s made the rank of Captain by TMP, and that’s what, 5-10 years after TOS.

252. Red Shirt Diaries - December 9, 2012

#243: “Can you even offer a reason as to why spock would press his hands against the opposite side of the glass that Cumberbatch’s character is also pressed to.”

What would your reason be? You’ve mentioned Gary Mitchell here before. Why would Gary Mitchell be doing that with Spock? Didn’t Spock and Mitchell not care for each other much, as I recall from TOS? How do you explain this then?

253. Lance W - December 9, 2012

FYI…..not 5-10 years, its more near 20 I guess.

254. J - December 9, 2012

OMG, I love this “Khan vs Mitchell” war and all the words so magnificently wasted on it. Whoever wins, I lose. I sincerely hope we can see something new instead of borrowing from canon. It’s an alternate timeline, isn’t it?

255. Lance W - December 9, 2012

LOL…my bad….in the Prime Universe, Kirk becomes captain in 2261 and Vger was 2270 or 71….so that’s when Decker became a captain in the PRIME timeline…who knows what he’s been up to in this timeline.

256. MJ - December 9, 2012

@250. But this is only 1 year into their mission, and remember in this timeline they are starting this mission several years earlier than the original timeline. Yea, I guess he could be an Ensign on his first assignment, but he can’t be much further along than that at this point in time? He can’t be much older than say early twenties.

257. captain_neill - December 9, 2012

Is Orci on this comments page?

Bob I was wanting to ask if you considered other ideas other than a villain looking for revenge? Just thinking some plot points seem a little too similar to the last one.

Oh it will be a good film but I just can’t help thinking something different would have been welcomed, because there is so much you can do in the Trek universe, even your’re rebooted one.

258. Lance W - December 9, 2012

@255 You’re right, he wouldn’t be much older than that. However (I don’t really think this is what’s going to happen, but it would fit the “synopsis”), it may not be young Decker, it could be the Decker/Vger merger. All in all, I don’t think its the case, but he would fit the from with Starfleet and “super human” requirements. Heck, Peter Weller could be Matt Decker, but I think Weller’s character was described as a businessman.

259. Optimistic Doodle - December 9, 2012

@248: Whaleproof true!

However, typically a brig on ST has a forcefield in place.
And given the futuristic nature of the movie, the budget and let’s say JJ-coolness, a brig with forcefield is more believable and visually more appealing too.

Having said that, a medical quarantine box can be part of a brig or prison too…

260. MJ - December 9, 2012

@257. Yea, we know that Weller is some kind of CEO who also has his own starship. My theory is that he is some kind of military/covert contract guy for the Federation, and he discovers the Botany Bay, and turns Khan and his crew over to the Federation spooks, who then try to tame Khan into a one-man weapon of mass destruction for their use, and oh man, does it all go horribly wrong…..

261. MJ - December 9, 2012

@258. Good points.

262. Sam - December 9, 2012

You people are sooooooo wrong. Its not Khan or Mitchell. Most of you have 2 dimensional thinking. The rest have theories so outlandish and ridiculous its beyond funny. Its a whole new character. Period. End of debate.

263. boborci - December 9, 2012

256. captain_neill – December 9, 2012
Is Orci on this comments page?

Bob I was wanting to ask if you considered other ideas other than a villain looking for revenge? Just thinking some plot points seem a little too similar to the last one.

Oh it will be a good film but I just can’t help thinking something different would have been welcomed, because there is so much you can do in the Trek universe, even your’re rebooted one.

——————————-

There’s the nuances of marketing and then there are the nuances of a two hour narrative. They are different types of meals. Not judging either one as a cool profession. But one minute or 90 seconds of images is like the proverbial blind man feeling the trunk of an elephant and having to imagine what the rest of it looks like;)

264. boborci - December 9, 2012

253. J – December 9, 2012
“OMG, I love this “Khan vs Mitchell” war and all the words so magnificently wasted on it. Whoever wins, I lose. I sincerely hope we can see something new instead of borrowing from canon. It’s an alternate timeline, isn’t it?”
———LOL — PITHY

265. Mr Mike - December 9, 2012

Has anyone considered the possibility that Cumberbatch could be playing some version of Christopher Pike?

266. Devero - December 9, 2012

I don’t get it. That guy tweets “Full STAR TREK trailer indicates hands against glass scene is actually Spock and Cumberbatch.” Has he seen Cumberbatch? Or does he THINK it’s Cumberbatch’s hand? Because that hand doesn’t look like Cumberbatch’s. His fingers are longer and thinner.

267. Lance W - December 9, 2012

@262 Despite the fact they have stated Cumberbatch and Eve are playing characters out of Star Trek canon, you’re sticking with an all new character?

268. Anthony Thompson - December 9, 2012

263. Bob

You have given me hope w/ that comment.

269. Nadeshiko - December 9, 2012

263.
Nice.
I have a question! Do you read all the comments in here?

270. Mr Mike - December 9, 2012

I’m thinking some combination of The Cage and Where No Man Has Gone Before, with Pike, rather than Gary Mitchell being impacted, being thought gone or left behind, and then to come back in this rejuvenated, powerful form, deranged by whatever happened and seeking vengeance.

I may be way off, but the Spock-Cumberbatch hand thing and Pike’s lecture to Kirk both made me wonder. And I haven’t seen any speculation on this possibility.

271. captain_neill - December 9, 2012

263

So although its another villain out for revenge story, it will be something different?

272. Mark James Tucker - December 9, 2012

Here is the thing the Khanyphants have yet to give a plausable, and decent sounding possible plot device in which Khan would work as the villian based on what we know.

So far all these possibilties have been little more than BAD Fan Fic ideas.
I have more faith in Orci and Kurtzman than that.

MJ I think you need to re read that CONFIRMATION ARTICLE. Anthony “CONFIRMED” the Nimoy apperance first in the article before he went on to Khan.

273. Mr Mike - December 9, 2012

I’ve made a couple of posts about Cumberbatch playing Christopher Pike and two of them have been removed. Am I violating Terms of Service somehow?

274. Mark James Tucker - December 9, 2012

Having Khan as the villian in the second movie. is asking for a lot of comparisons to TWOK,

Cumberbatch is a great actor, but he is no where near as charismatic or charming as Montalban was.
plus cumberbatch is way to young, Montalban was 46 when he played Khan in Spaceseed.
so unless they are retconing the backstory of Khan’s flee from earth following the Eugenics wars, Cumby is to young.

And think about this, if the Botany Bay were discovered by someone else a few years earlier than guess what Khan would be almost 50 if not 50 by the time this story takes place, not somewhere very close in age to chris pine.

275. captain_neill - December 9, 2012

272

And dont forget any redo would be inferior to TWOK, which is a SF classic.

263- Orci
As long as you are not having him destroy any iconic planets, still hate the fact you destroyed Vulcan in your last film.

I guess it’s hard to please the Trekkies while pushing for the mainstream audience who don’t get Trek?

276. Astrophysicophile - December 9, 2012

242. Thank you for your support on Garth. However, I think he is insane just as in the prime universe, rather than hawkish.

I understand your drawing the line at Redjac. Perhaps, you are correct. I was just trying to figure out why the poster shows London, in ruins no less, why Eve’s character screams in horror, and why, as so many people at TrekMovie have noted, the theme of this movie would be vengeance when it was the theme (or subtheme) of so many of the previous movies.

Nevertheless, I do not find taking the word “terror” literally to be disturbing, in the context of the scenes of mass destruction depicted in the poster and trailer, and of the dialogue about Garth’s attempted genocide in “Whom Gods Destroy”. In other words, I think terror is supposed to be disturbing, as is any trek into darkness. And I would expect that in the starfaring universe shown in Star Trek, the terrors of the serial killers and Nazi concentration camp doctors of modern times would pale in comparison to the terrors lurking out there in the depths of space and on alien worlds.

277. captain_neill - December 9, 2012

Orci- it’s a shame you are writing for a different generation of cinemagoers.

I understand that some of the things of trek have to be sacrificed to make the mainstream like the film but have you been tempted to do a movie when the threat was to another planet rather than Earth. Or would another planet lose the mainstream in your opinion? I mean an even bigger threat. Earth is but one planet in the Federation and the Enterprise’s mission is to explore the galaxy and seek out new life and civilizations..

Just asking if you considered it?

278. Admiral_Bumblee - December 9, 2012

I really hope that they will have something great up their sleeves for the third movie. I know it may be too early to think about but I could image that if they would use Trelane in the next movie they would open up the possibility to wrap the trilogie. They could bring in a connection about Trelane and Q, a connection tot he parallel universes as well as include Shatner as prime Kirk being brought back by Trelane. by including Prime Spock, too they could wrap up the story by sending Prime Kirk and Spock into the sunset at the end of the movie, traveling the multiverse together with Q/Trelane…

279. Ralph Pinheiro - December 9, 2012

Mr. Orci,

Is the final cut over? And about score, is Giacchino working on it?

280. Optimistic Doodle - December 9, 2012

I wonder how they’ll deal with the Vulcan aftermath in the upcoming movie. No clues yet.

281. Astrophysicophile - December 9, 2012

245. However, this major motion picture is supposed to be science fiction. Sometimes in science fiction, the problem to be solved is utterly alien and utterly terrifying.

282. Disinvited - December 9, 2012

#272. Mark James Tucker

In SPACE SEED, it was established Khan’s suspended animation chamber was failing. We simply have no information on how that might have affected his apparent age or aged him. In an earlier non-failing unit, he very well might have kept his boyish good looks.

283. Bird Of Clay - December 9, 2012

all of this speculation about the plot, with the littlest of clues, reminds me of Scotty explaining the notion of transwarp beaming: “it’s like trying to catch a bullet with a smaller bullet, with your eyes folded, riding a horse”.

i just heard that in my head, with that beautiful accent. :D

284. Nick C - December 9, 2012

If it’s Mitchell (and I say *if*) the lack of silver eyes in the teaser could be an intentional omission. If Cumberbatch had the silver eyes in the teaser, there’d be no mystery anymore.

285. aligee - December 9, 2012

66. Martin Anderson
angry at the destruction of Vulcan maybe?

286. Aurore - December 9, 2012

103. dmduncan – December 8, 2012
@102:

No. That 2nd photo is taken from the tail end of the trailer with Cumberbatch in that seat as Kirk enters the room to face him.

His ears are NOT pointed. It’s a trick of how the shadow is falling that makes it look like there’s some pointiness there. There is not. That’s his normal ear.

THAT one is settled.

__________

I wonder what the ears experts could do with the picture where Mr. Cumberbatch’s character seems involved in some kind of fight with Klingons, though.

It is available in th second link out of two, post 97, on the shot-by-shot-analysis thread.

http://trekmovie.com/2012/12/06/star-trek-into-darkness-announcement-trailer-shot-by-shot-analysis/#comment-4951443

On that thread, I said and still maintain that Mr. Cumberbatch’s ears seemed “different”, compared to what I had seen in a photo I linked to (post 281).

In the picture in which Mr. Cumberbatch is fighting, I really believed he seemed to be wearing barely noticeable prosthetics.

I would like the experts to properly analyze this shot, as well.
If possible.

Thanks in anticipation.

:)

287. chrisfawkes.com - December 9, 2012

I think that it will start the movie with Kirk and Spock defeating Gary Mitchell and that will be the scene with the hands against the glass.

Then the movie will skip a couple of years where Mitchell believed dead comes back for revenge.

288. Ralph Pinheiro - December 9, 2012

“Cumberbatch was definitely shown in some sort of brig ”

One more point to Garth

289. Aurore - December 9, 2012

Correction. 284.
th = the

290. Bob Mack - December 9, 2012

One point on Gary Mitchell – how is it that we know how an alternate universe Gary Mitchell would behave or how his powers are shaped? Would he HAVE to use telekinesis to attack the Klingons? Would he simply melt or eliminate the glass instead of jumping through it?

I submit that we simply have no idea how his powers might be different in STID than they were in TOS or that he might, as a character, behave somewhat differently than we predict.

There’s just no point in any of us declaring victory on “knowing” who the villain is at this point. We just don’t know. Any explanation of who it is could be easily explained with an extra sentence or two in the script. Those guys are professional writers and they can shape the story or characters just about any way they want to.

291. Mr Mike - December 9, 2012

I’m starting to think this has to do with some fallout between Kirk and Pike and that it will involve some very scary form of the Talosians, illusion, and mind games. I think Nimoy may have some role. And that the villain’s motivation won’t be so simple as ‘vengeance’ but somehow almost wanting to teach a lesson to Kirk, the Enterprise crew, and Starfleet.

I don’t see how it could be Khan. The reason Khan worked so well in Star Trek II is that there was a history and a reason for his wrath. Space Seed wouldn’t have worked as a movie; Khan had no beef with Kirk at that point.

I also don’t think there would be much emotional resonance with Gary Mitchell for new fans, or people who only saw Star Trek ’09.

We might see some sort of interesting exploratory, spooky type sci-fi mission at the beginning that involves Pike, a tragedy, and later perhaps a whole lot of mind-bending, Talosian-style illusion– perhaps Cumberbatch a projection of a decrepit Greenwood.

Is this possible or am I way out in the forest behind left field?

292. chrisfawkes.com - December 9, 2012

Collins who played Decker is 16 years younger than Shatner.

So figruing that their ages are similar in the Trek universe and Kirk in this is supposed to be mid twenties Decker would be 9-10

293. PinoMills - December 9, 2012

SPOILER…
He is Arne Darvin. Darvin is arrested attempting to poison grain being transported on the Enterprise. The aged Spock informs his younger counterpart about Darvin. They arrest him and hand him over to Klingon authorities. After breaking out of Rura Penthe, Darvin seeks revenge against the old Spock and the crew of the Enterprise by trying to instigate a war between the Federation and the Klingon Empire. He kills the older Spock and nearly destroys the Enterprise with another Federation ship that is not necessarily from the same timeline. Klingons in this movie are revealed to be much stronger than humans and a reference to “Enterprise” about their human appearance and the need for helmets is mentioned. Alice Eve is actually playing Janice Rand, a crew member who had previously become involved with Darvin prior to his arrest and before she was transferred to the Enterprise. Lastly, Tribbles do make a small appearance in the film.

294. T'Cal - December 9, 2012

Too much info! I miss the old days when we got nothing…

Kidding!

295. Aurore - December 9, 2012

There will be no analysis (from the ears experts) of the photo where Mr. Cumberbatch is fighting the Klingons, then. I wanted them to have a look at it.

I see a correction I made to a post I wrote responding to dmduncan (@ 102).
But, the post itself (formerly 284), unless I’m mistaken, has disappeared.

:)

I guess it means I should not talk about the ears, here….

296. Astrophysicophile - December 9, 2012

198. Henoch instead of Redjac possessing Garth is another idea, especially since he did make one woman, Uhura of the prime universe scream, but there are a couple of points against him:

1. Since the events of the episode “Return to Tomorrow” probably has not occurred in the second universe yet, he will have to come from the prime universe via Nero, just as Redjac will have to do as well.

2. He has never been to London.

3. He has telekinetic powers, which Cumberbatch’s character does not exhibit.

297. Justin Olson - December 9, 2012

@ 280. Disinvited:

Except we do have that information. In SPACE SEED we are shown what Khan looked like on Earth in 1996 and he looks exactly the same as he does in the episode (mid-40s):

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x22hd/spaceseedhd449.jpg

Meaning he did not age noticeably at all during his suspended animation.

298. Jemini - December 9, 2012

the first teaser is mind-blowing but people are making too many assumptions based on nothing (but that’s the fun of it). I don’t think that JJ, Orci and the others are so obvious so yeah the hand could be Benny’s or anyone. Actually I wouldn’t even take for granted that the guy in science blues is Spock if it wasn’t for the apparent vulcan salute there.

(always hope to see more of Spock/Uhura :P
Damn didn’t they look hot in the teaser I do wonder what are those clothes for)

299. Aurore - December 9, 2012

Since my other posts, regarding my request to what has already been referred to here earlier as the “ears-experts”, have all disappeared.

Could the correction I made to one of them be removed, as well?

:)

Kidding. This very post probably won’t make it as well. Not for long, anyway….

In case I am still allowed to post here, after today, I will know what not to talk about…or…I will try to rephrase my request….Nah…,I must not talk about the photo where Mr. Cumberbatch is fighting the Klingons, apparently…

Understood.

:)

300. JD - December 9, 2012

A couple of things stand out:

1. Why is everyone assuming that the BC voiceover is directed at Kirk? I am not saying it isnt but it very easily could be directed at someone else….
2. What if the film starts with the enterprise encountering the botany bay. The first third of the film can demonstrate Khan and his attempt to take the ship. After he is exiled on Ceti Alpha 5 the peter weller character (an admiral perhaps) orders the recovery of this group due to their abilities and the depleted condition of starfleet. This could explain how BC’s character gets a ship.
3. What if the volcano planet is Ceti Alpha 6 that they are trying to stabilize before it explodes?

For the record, I have no preference on who the villian is. However, based on the above I feel you can make for another Khan film in the TOS alternate timeline.

Thoughts?

301. PinoMills - December 9, 2012

Refer to post #289.
Also…keep in mind that this film is not taking place directly after the first film. Aside from that, everything is loosely based on the original TV series. It is only an afterthought trying to jam it all into a timeline or make some kind of real continuity. The only “Prime” material you are going to see in this film is a familiar ship that you may have never expected to see again and the last days of old Spock. If I was to mention anything else- it may involve a certain Starfleet officer’s gruesome destiny….

302. Tony - December 9, 2012

I think the villain is Q: http://villains.wikia.com/wiki/Q

303. banned - December 9, 2012

deleted by admin

304. Maxie - December 9, 2012

What makes you so sure of all this PinoMills?
Inside information or pure speculation?

305. Banned - December 9, 2012

deleted by admin

306. Spockchick - December 9, 2012

@271. Mark J Tucker.

“Khanyphants”

LOL! For some reason I found that word hilarious. Thanks for the laugh!

307. Aurore - December 9, 2012

My post @294 is still here?

:))

Does that mean that I can request from someone willing and in a position to do it to try and properly analyze one particular photo?

I would like that to be “settled”.

I personally thought Mr. Cumberbatch wore barely noticeable prosthetics in that shot.

Is he or is he not?

I would like to know for sure.

:)

308. Jonx - December 9, 2012

@AlexKurtzman

Can we expect to see a revamped Enterprise?

309. Nadeshiko - December 9, 2012

299.
He’s trolling. Never mind him. He has posted the same thing months ago.

310. Aurore - December 9, 2012

Correction. 294.

“Since my other posts, regarding my request to what has already been referred to here earlier as the “ears-experts”….

=

Since my other posts to those who have already been referred to here, earlier, as the “ears-experts”….

311. Picard, Jean-Luc - December 9, 2012

Could this movie be based on the Character in the episode “The Omega Glory”?

312. Amujan - December 9, 2012

What if Cumberbatch plays an augmented Klingon? He turns up on a Klingon – or at least disputed – world, fighting Klingons. We know from Enterprise what happened to Klingons getting augmented by the virus – losing forehead ridges and all. Or he’s just another human augemnted leftover. He even wears something similar to the Eugenics Wars wardrobe of a soldier, with a big weapon seemingly protruding from one of his arms, like that thing, the guards used in TNG’s very first episode, when Q puts the crew on trial.

313. Maxie - December 9, 2012

303. thanks, I didn’t think Arne Darvin made any sense.
I still think it isn’t a canon character at all. And that was the lie boborci mentioned. Although, the Botany Bay is still drifting out there somewhere and maybe it will play a part in this movie or the next

314. jameryj - December 9, 2012

It’s a non canon character. The lie was that it was a canon character. What better lie to make but to let everyone argue within a small bubble. When the truth lays outside.

315. Aurore - December 9, 2012

The character could be anyone .
That is one of the things I find exciting about the upcoming sequel.

And, although I may be wrong, I believe he may be wearing some kind of barely noti…

:)

Seriously though, again, I would not mind seeing a new character to the canon.

I would love that, in fact.

316. J - December 9, 2012

@264 boborci: You made me look up a word.

317. Nick C - December 9, 2012

@ 287. I agree completely Bob Mack. All these assumptions are entertaining but that’s about it.

318. Garth of New Jersey - December 9, 2012

People forget that Chekov was a Security Officer in Star Trek the Motion Picture and assumed Tactical in Star Trek 2.

If he is a red tunic its not without precedent.

I guess everything moves a little faster in the Alternate Reality.

Cumby is certainly not Sybock. God forbid but the Garth of Izar thing may be a something I had not really thought but I think that may be a more valid argument than Khan.

I dont know man. I think it comes down between Garth and Khan. Orci said the dude is canon. I guess we will see.

319. opcode - December 9, 2012

Anthony has obviously good relations with the Supreme Court, that is how he gets his news. Then he posts the news about who the villain was more than a year before the movie’s release date. Some would say he has multiple sources, not only the Supreme Court, but still, considering the level of secrecy that JJ is imposing in this movie, I doubt he could post something like that and not make the SC/JJ upset, which would mean loosing his best source. Then he disappears for months, never caring to give us a reason, even a simple ” there is nothing new to post”.
Then he magically come back full force just in time for the STID marketing push.
I say, very suspicious…
I am not questioning Anthony’s integrity per se, just point out that there may be more to this villain name guessing game than we might be considering.

So perhaps the villain is indeed Khan, and the SC got upset when Anthony posted the news. They then asked Anthony to not post anything of relevance again until the movie was ready for marketing, which would explain why Anthony disappeared for months.

Or perhaps Anthony’s reveling the villain’s name was all part of the SC plan to keep us in the dark and guessing, just like Urban saying it was Mitchell. Even the supposedly leaked pictures would be part of JJ’s plan.

320. Picard, Jean-Luc - December 9, 2012

is AlexKurtzman at 298 and 300 the real Alex Kutzman or a fake?

321. Son of Sarek - December 9, 2012

AlexKurtzman – December 9, 2012
The antagonist is based on a character that appeared in The Original Series season 2…

Again, I submit Henoch or the speculated upon, Redjac.

Other possibilities, the Tan Ru never seen entity from “The Changeling” or Captain Ron Tracey or Garth possessed of any of said entities.

322. Planet Pandro - December 9, 2012

#263 boborci-

I was thinking an appropriate metaphor would be:

Taking a 3-minute song, and picking 7 or 8 individual notes, rearranging them, and playing them back for people and trying to influence their opinions as to whether or not they’d like the full song…

323. Norm - December 9, 2012

Ok, for the sake of argument lets say this villian is Mitchell. The only way that his original story can be told is through flashbacks. Maybe in the Captains log. Also, who’s to say that Spock isn’t close to Mitchell? He tells him goodbye in the brig then helps to leave him in a firey pit inside a planet to be marooned forever. He escapes to seek revenge. Maybe the Klingons discover him and wish to use him as a weapon. Who knows?

324. Janices-tights - December 9, 2012

I am hoping it’s at least some new character, of it has to be yet another villain of the week deal…

I don’t see the real nead/point of a reboot if they’re just going to recycle the villains. Far more fun to speculate on somebody new…

I hope if ths is Khan, or Gary Mitchell they’ll have the good sense to do somethng fresh with Trek III. Trek IV was ballsy in that the ‘villain’ turns out to be anything but. Similar to the classic Trek episode The Devil in the Dark innthat respect. Would love to see something as original to tie up this new trilogy of films.

325. Sebastian S. - December 9, 2012

# 208 dmduncan

Thanks for another splash of sobering reality on these threads… the “Khan BS smoke” was getting a bit heavy in here…. ;-)

While I no longer believe it’s Gary Mitchell either, there is no reason why Alice Eve couldn’t be Elizabeth Dehner either (she looks NOTHING like the late Bibi Besch). Elizabeth Dehner and Gary Mitchell are not a matching set.

Khan and Carol Marcus would only mean that this is a lazy retread of the Khan arc, and frankly that would be disappointing as hell (not to mention some of the most racist casting since Mike Meyers as The Love Guru).

Personally, I’m thinking the ‘canon character’ slip was the Bob Orci lie, and that we’re witnessing a new character.

326. thomas vinelli - December 9, 2012

I don’t think its Sybok at all. revenge?, why would he want revenge, for what.
In Startrek5 all he wanted was to get to the God planet…no not Sybok

327. The Last Vulcan - December 9, 2012

Kurtzman? How do we know if it’s the real one? Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

328. gueffel - December 9, 2012

Really glad to see this site back in it’s old glory. Really.

329. Aurore - December 9, 2012

I obviously lied when I said that I would not bring up the shot where Mr. Cumberbatch is wielding some kind of rifle during a Klingon fight, again…

Since I am, apparently, not supposed to talk about it…. And given that another reply to dmduncan has disappeared….does that mean that “something” is going on???

Something to be revealed…soon?

( Apart from my risking being banned, I mean….)

:))

330. Sebastian S. - December 9, 2012

# 272 Mark James Tucker~

While I don’t think Cumberbatch is playing Khan, I have a few issues with your reasoning as to why:

“Cumberbatch is a great actor, but he is no where near as charismatic or charming as Montalban was.”

Completely false. Have you seen BBC’s Sherlock? The guy can act circles around Montalban, and is charismatic as hell. Moot point.

“…..plus cumberbatch is way to young, Montalban was 46 when he played Khan in Spaceseed.”

—Montalban (in “Space Seed”) was obviously playing it much younger than 46; otherwise Khan would’ve been ‘born’ in 1950; three years before the discovery of DNA…

“…. so unless they are retconing the backstory of Khan’s flee from earth following the Eugenics wars, Cumby is to young.”

— Again, while I think Cumberbatch as Khan is a bad idea, the character’s age is not an important factor, really. The Eugenics Wars didn’t happen anyway (unless you read Greg Cox’s awesome Khan/Eugenics Wars trilogy).

Personally? I’m skewing towards either a new character or a character with some connection to the events of “Where No Man Has Gone Before”….

331. Trekzilla - December 9, 2012

Is #298 & 300 really Alex?

If so, can’t imagine who the villain would be from Season 2 TOS who would want revenge…

Apollo? LOL!!

332. Disinvited - December 9, 2012

#292. Justin Olsen

Fortunately for us, the sign of age in humans, the size of the ears, are obscured in that photo.

But I’d guess he was meant to look 36 in that photo. And I would agree with other comentor that when he woke, and the actor was wearing a different wig, he looked older – early 50s. When he wore the same wig in the photo on set they put in streaks of gray so he was meant to be portrayed older regardless of the actor’s real ear age of 46.

Fact is, without any on screen statement of a character’s age and especially with the use of wigs which we are meant to take as the character’s real hair, makeup etc. he could have been meant to be much younger when he froze. This is, after all, a Hollywood were 29yos regularly portray 15yos.

Maybe Memory Alpha has a canon reference for Khan’s age?

I recall the initial treatment had him as Nordic.

333. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

225

MJ, you called it as Khan way back when there were precious few clues to go on, when I followed the same clues to thinking the same things that you did. Things have changed since then. So if you turn out to be right and it is Khan, it won’t be because you have a superior intellect, it will be due to a combination of stubbornness and luck!

This trailer is the first REAL evidence we have of anything. Before it, all we had was people saying things: Anthony’s mystery source confirming it was Khan, Simon Pegg and JJ denying it was Khan. Karl Urban saying it was Mitchell, Bob Orci denying it was Mitchell.

Now we can SEE something. The question is, what do we see? I can tell you that I don’t see Khan, and I really don’t see Mitchell either — at least not the same one from WNMHGB. But Cumberbatch is far better cast as either Mitchell / someone else entirely rather than as Khan.

222: “You are missing my point completely. Dude, the Eugenics Wars never happened in the 1990′s. Khan never came to be 20 years ago and never escaped Earth. This destroys the whole backstory of Khan from TOS, and frees up the Supreme Court to create a more modern backstory for Khan, and to change him a bit.”

Not so.

1. The Eugenics war never happened in OUR universe, but who is to say, given the MWI/QM fealty of Bob Orci that, the 23rd century of Star Trek is the future of OUR universe?

2. Alternatively, and more interestingly, I would cast it so that the Eugenics Wars DID happen in the 1990’s — OUR 1990’s — and ARE continuing to happen right now in front of us, but the events that belong to them are spun by the media into false stories that appear unrelated to what is actually happening, while the real leaders are given cover by a media that purposely fails to report both their identities and their activities.

That would be a much more exciting way to keep the Eugenics Wars in OUR universe. “Eugenics Wars” would be the name that the FUTURE gives to what was REALLY going on in the world of today (including a black budget secret space program), whose events were deeply disguised as something else to the people who lived then. That is to say — to US.

334. Aurore - December 9, 2012

Correction. 294.

This very post probably won’t make it as well.

=

This very post probably won’t make it either.

:)

335. LogicalLeopard - December 9, 2012

So, it seems like the Khant be Khan Khlub (KhKhKh?) has one main argument:Cumberbatch’s ethnicity. I think there are two reasonable options to consider in that regard.

1) So you’re regarded as one of the worst dictators in human history. You get shot into space, and wake up centuries later. Ticked. Off. If you want revenge, the first thing you want to do is avoid history majors and schoolchildren that can easily identify you. So you get plastic surgery, available in the 90’s, and probably available at Walmart in a do it yourself kit in a future where they have pills to regrow livers.

2) Suspension of disbelief. No one here stopped watching TOS when they saw Ricardo Montabon play Khan the first or second time, and no one protested that an Englishman with an English accent played a Frenchman, when it would have been very easy to just change Picards name. They could have just cast the best person for the job, and after watching Sherlock the past couple weeks, I believe they got a great one.

But let me add, I’m not saying It’s Khan, I just believe he’s the leader of the pack in canon characters, and that there is no good reason to disqualify him.

336. Jeyl - December 9, 2012

“Trailer opens with Pike VO, telling Kirk he has courage but no humility, and someday that will get him and his crew killed.”

A pity Pike didn’t tell Kirk that in the last movie. You’d think that would be something to learn BEFORE you take command of a ship instead of years afterwards.

337. ScottC - December 9, 2012

# 298 AlexKurtzman – December 9, 2012
The antagonist is based on a character that appeared in The Original Series season 2…

If this is true, maybe it’s the entity from Wolf in the Fold and it will be Jack the Ripper returning? Maybe CB is in Star Fleet and istaken over by the entity?

338. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

Aurore, I didn’t read any posts by you to me. Try again. Maybe you are using a banned keyword? Avoid using the words in*surance and p*orn. And most definitely don’t talk about p*orn in*surance.

339. Disinvited - December 9, 2012

#332. dmduncan

Don’t forget arc*hive.

340. Aurore - December 9, 2012

332. dmduncan – December 9, 2012
Aurore, I didn’t read any posts by you to me. Try again. Maybe you are using a banned keyword? Avoid using the words in*surance and p*orn. And most definitely don’t talk about p*orn in*surance.
_______

:))

In a manner of speaking, I just asked a question. Several times.
It may have been considered off-topic, which I understand.

(I wanted an informed opinion on a shot from the trailer.)

Nevermind.

Reading the speculation is as entertaining as ever ; ‘still enjoying it tremendously!

And, I agree ; I really don’t see Khan, and I don’t see Mitchell either.

:)

341. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

219. Curious Cadet – December 8, 2012

Thank you from saving me from having to write all that! I don’t get paid by the hour in here! ;-)

If there is a game, then there ought to be a chance of winning it. If you buy a lottery ticket, it is with the expectation of SOME remote chance of winning. So the game runners and the game players both abide by the same set of rules, and the game runners do have obligations to the game players to play fairly from their end of the game.

And this is a game right here. True, the game runners never publicly agreed to the rules, but we all have that common sense of fairness which makes the rules implicitly understood. EVERYbody knows what it is to be cheated, and NObody likes being cheated, and that knowledge creates an obligation on the part of the game makers, however unspoken, however silent, to play by those rules.

But if you disinform people you make winning THIS game difficult, and if you disinform them consistently, you make winning impossible. A little cheating is expected. A lot is not so good. Then you become a sort of Trelane who discovers so much fun trying to skewer Kirk that he goes back on his word to release the Enterprise so that he can individually skewer each member of the crew.

You shouldn’t enjoy maintaining the frustrating so much that you are killing the players’ chances of winning. That’s kind of sadistic.

I like to figure out puzzles, but if somebody mixes up pieces of different puzzles and gives them to you like you really have a chance of putting the big picture together when you really do not, then that’s not a game. That’s just screwing with people using the guise of a game.

342. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

@272 Mark James Tucker –
“Montalban was 46 when he played Khan in Spaceseed….And think about this, if the Botany Bay were discovered by someone else a few years earlier than guess what Khan would be almost 50 if not 50 by the time this story takes place”

Wow! You know I never realized Montalban was that much older than William Shatner — 11 years! In Space Seed they look like contemporaries.

And you’re right, he would only be older if they discovered him earlier to accommodate for the events of this story.

However, I don’t think a significant amount of retconing would have to take place to depict Khan at Cumberbatch’s age. Afterall, Montalban didn’t look 46, meaning Khan didn’t have to be. And Khan was a genetically engineered human. So, theoretically, he ages more slowly. And it would depend on how far before this movie they discovered him as to how disparate their appearances would be. But for fit men in their 20s & 30s ten years difference in age doesn’t have to make a huge physical difference. Obviously it didn’t in the case of Shatner and Montelban and Montalban was in his 40s.

Ultimately that doesn’t really matter either way, because there are so many other reasons why this isn’t Khan.

But this is what I said to MJ, who seemed to think that he’s “just reading the clues” like the rest of us — Cumberbactch himself is not a valid clue for Khan, he’s a cheat in the game Abrams has invited us to play if true. I could care less if it turns out to be an original villain, because Orci indicated he lied about something, and we know it could be about the villain being from canon. But actually changing canon is changing the rules of the game because Orci never commented about anything that could explain Khan being reimagined as Cumberbatch to constitute the lie.

343. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

This movie, when all comes out, will tell us much about the people who made it.

I have faith in them.

344. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

334. Aurore – December 9, 2012

Oh come on! Which shot? I need to know now.

345. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

Of course, if they think of this as warfare, then that makes us enemies they are trying to defeat by any means necessary.

I’ve never thought of this THAT seriously. It’s always been game more than warfare to ME. I mean, I love these guys. I’m trying to figure out what they’re doing — not crush them.

346. RTC - December 9, 2012

Personally, I think BC is playing Dr. Zachary Smith, de-aged due to relativistic effects and royally p.o.’ed that Star Trek turned out to be much more enduring than Lost in Space…. ; )

347. Djeewhy - December 9, 2012

Whoever is the vilain I just can’t understand why they think we are stupid enough to applause every movie in wich the only motivation of the vilain is to have veangeance! It’s getting boring! Only Shinzon in the first timeline had such a motivation,on a total of 10 movies. Now, every new movie must have its own vilain getting vengance by destroying the Federation. I find it just a pity! And my opinion..Charlie X.

348. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

You know, maybe it IS more like warfare sometimes. I mean we got spy photos. Sometimes we get insider leaks. THEY don’t agree to that. We are feasting on stolen goods sometimes, so I can see how fog like that ruins the game for all of us on both sides.

349. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

It’s easy to see it from the fan side. To be fair, we have to see if from theirs as well.

350. Aurore - December 9, 2012

Well, when I said “nevermind”, I wasn’t playing coy; some of my previous posts were deleted!

:))

… I merely wanted to know how the shape of Mr. Cumberbatch’ s ear, in the shot where he is wielding some kind of rifle during a Klingon fight could, be explained.

To me, it looked different compared to his real ear.

(…I do not know if you will see this post of mine….)

:)

351. Ahmed - December 9, 2012

@341. Djeewhy

Yeah, it is too bad that Hollywood so fixated on revenge driven plots that it is becoming so tiresome to watch some of the movies.

Lets hope, whoever will write the next Star Trek movie, will go in a different direction, other than this revenge plot.

352. Planet Pandro - December 9, 2012

re: Cumby in the brig

I happen to be on Team Khan. I have on other threads floated the theory that Khan was discovered and awakened by a more paranoid Starfleet, and put in some kind of tactical/leadership role and that he eventually turns on the Federation because he’s genetically predisposed to rule. I’m wondering now if he’s bent on revenge against Starfleet because, rather than being placed in a leadership/tactical role, he is being held captive/tortured for his talents, and he eventually breaks free and turns on his Starfleet captors.
I know the comics have hinted at some shadowy section 31-esque Starfleet activity (Landru Project, Kirk and Spock debating odd, random orders from command on the “Vaal” planet) and I thought it was mentioned that this film would be a bit more allegorical, and this idea certainly fits recent times. It would explain Khan in a uniform, Khan seeking Vengeance for a wrong done to him personally, etc. Also, I’m guessing Pike is part of the collateral damage from Khan’s attack on the Fleet and that’s Kirk’s “personal stake” in this.

Anyhoo, all this guessing is kinda fun but I’m ready for answers.

353. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

@329 LogicalLeopard,

1) “Plastic surgery”? Why stop there? Might as well adopt the plot of FACE OFF and have Khan switch his face with Kirk’s. Khan would never change his face for anybody. He’s superior to everyone, he will be victorious regardless if he is recognized, in fact he wants people to know who is coming.

2) Khan is canon. Period. He’s an established character and Orci has pledged to honor a self imposed obligation to be true to the fans. It would be as if they reimagined the Joker in Batman without the face makeup.

And while ethnicity is the most obvious problem with this character being Khan it is by no means the only one. Cast Del Torro, and this debate would still be raging. In fact it would be more interesting. But right now, if it turns out to be Khan, then Abrams has pulled a fast one and been more than disingenuous with the fans.

354. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

344. Aurore – December 9, 2012

GOT it Aurore.

I copied both photos and put them side by side. The photo from the film is higher contrast. There is deeper shadow and a sharper “line” between the highlights and the lowlights on the ear. That SHADOW appears — APPEARS — to make his ear look more pointy that it really is by concealing that part of his ear which would make it look identical to his ear in the much more brightly lit press photo.

If you look at the film shot very closely, you can still SEE in the shadow the rest of his ear, and when you follow those lines of his ear obscured by the shadow, you will find that it has the same shape as the ear in the press photo blow-up.

The pointiness is just an illusion of light and shade.

355. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

@342 dmduncan,
“You know, maybe it IS more like warfare sometimes. I mean we got spy photos. Sometimes we get insider leaks. THEY don’t agree to that.”

You’re starting to crack brother …

Haha. Nope, that’s all part of the game. This is not Abrams’ first rodeo … He knows this is just as much a part of it as anything else. You can’t keep a secret in Hollywood. In fact it’s much better to let a few “leaked” photos out to appease the fans rather than risk a full-fledged breach. It’s even more fun if the photos are a misdirect. And the studio must love/hate these “secret” shoots, because all they can really publicize is that everything about the movie is “top secret”.

I would really hate to think of Abrams as an angry tyrant spewing saliva as he rants about the audacity of the fans for their trechery and how he’s going to get even with them, all the while smiling for the cameras and assuring the fans he has their best interests in mind even though he’s completely throwing their concerns to the wind.

356. Aurore - December 9, 2012

348. dmduncan – December 9, 2012

_______

Thank you for taking the time to compare the photos, dmduncan!

Now, the matter is settled (for me)!

357. The Sinfonian - December 9, 2012

Well, if that’s Alex Kurtzman, “Hello, Alex!” Welcome to a place that’s a lot like a real-world Inception.

Second season really? Omega Glory is absolutely the way to go then. Captain Ron Tracey fits in so many ways as a villain. It’s an episode written by Gene Roddenberry, so there also are no rights issues to mess with. Other episodes by other authors would have had such issues to deal with. Ask Harlan Ellison.

358. I am not Herbert - December 9, 2012

“Hands against glass” scene MUST be the death of Spock, ala TWOK.

the “glass” is for radiation containment, the brig uses a force field, not “glass”.

also we see Scotty restraining / consoling Uhura in “Engineering”, (upon witnessing the death of Spock…)

hope this clears thing up… (you’re welcome) ;-)

359. Trekzilla - December 9, 2012

Good grief!!!! Can I not get a simple answer? Is that the real Alex Kurtzman in #300 or not?! This question supersedes all guessing as to who the villain is!!!

360. Trekzilla - December 9, 2012

Thanks #351!! :-)

361. I am not Herbert - December 9, 2012

…also, Spock’s hand is “inside” of the “glass”, ala the radiation containment chamber… (you’re welcome) ;-)

BUT, this DOES NOT mean that it’s Khan… (it’s Gareth Mitchell) ;-)

362. I am not Herbert - December 9, 2012

the brig will utilize a force field barrier, so that we will see Gareth “Gary” fighting against it, and overcoming it, just like in WNMHGB… ;-)

363. I am not Herbert - December 9, 2012

…but, if Spock DOES die in the radiation containment chamber, perhaps Gareth (Gary) will resurrect him, before he succumbs to whatever HIS fate will be… ;-) and in the process restoring our faith in humanity… ;-)

364. Disinvited - December 9, 2012

#347 Curious Cadet

I suppose what ever clandestine organization acquired him could have changed his looks before they woke him up. Thus reigniting his need for revenge.

365. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

349. Curious Cadet – December 9, 2012

No, I’m not starting to crack. That’s not what I mean by warfare. I don’t mean a ranting antagonistic JJ Abrams. I don’t see him that way at all.

I mean “warfare” as a type of game, the type we see, for example, the kids playing in Ender’s Game. It has it’s own rules that are different from what we are doing in here, and when you mix up different rules of different types of games, you can’t blame gameplayers anymore for cheating because the rules are not consistent between game-types.

And that is exactly what I think is happening here. We have a mashup of game types in which the rules have no implicit clarity.

366. Red Dead Ryan - December 9, 2012

I’m still sticking with my prediction of Khan, but yeah, right now its looking more likely that its someone else entirely. Could be Gary Mitchell, but not convinced of that either.

I am not sure if this is really “AlexKurtzman” upthread, also.

367. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

350. Aurore – December 9, 2012

You are welcome, Aurore!

I wonder if you would do me a small favor? Your search skills seem to be so much more advanced than my own, so I think you would have a better chance of success, and that’s why I am asking.

If you agree, here is the favor. Notice the quote at the top of this page:

“Oh yeah: there’s space stuff in the full TREK trailer. Space combat. Guy in a space suit zooming around.”

I seem to remember quite recently — certainly within 2012 and very probably within the last 6 months — that some alleged “insider” source posted a comment in which he claimed that in the movie there was a fight in space between Kirk and Khan wearing spacesuits.

I would like to locate that thread again. And you seem to be really good at remembering and finding obscure things here.

If it would be too much time or trouble, don’t bother. But if you can quickly do that magic you do, I would be very appreciative.

368. I am not Herbert - December 9, 2012

…plus, they used a completely new villain character the first time…

…and he sucked eggs

369. Disinvited - December 9, 2012

#353. Trekzilla

Would you accept just any answer as credible?

I think your best shot would be to try a writer incantation.

Hail. Hail. Fire and snow.
To the friendly writer we will go.

Far to go. Far to see.
Does AlexKurtzman speak truthfully?

370. Stephan - December 9, 2012

will the trailer only be seen in the USA in front of the Hobbit? What about Europe, especially Germany. Will the trailer be shown here as well?

371. Trekzilla - December 9, 2012

HAHA!!! I want Anthony or Bob O to chime in and confirm if Alex is for real…

Love your Friendly Angel chant though…

372. Walt Kozlowski - December 9, 2012

A lot of people think Trek is best on TV! Episodic TV lets you explore! You can set the Enterprise 3 weeks out in deep space and left out there till next week’s adventure.But a motion picture comes out every 2,3 or 4 years.You aren’t going to make a Trek move about the Teddy Bear Planet with honey addicts! Every Trek movie except Insurrection had earth in them ” that movie played out like a TV show to me”! Besides Insurrection and STV all other movies had earth threatened directly our indirectly! As far as vengeful villains in the movies there were 5; Khan,Soran,Ru’afo,Shinzon and Nero. And the reason for the vengeance theme is because WOK is the bench mark for great Trek movies!DUH

373. Fascinoma - December 9, 2012

What if Khan is in the movie (or is Easter egged in the end of the film) but Cumberbatch isn’t playing him?

374. GermanTrekker - December 9, 2012

Guys, I just fell asleep for a few minutes and just the second before I passed out I thought … maybe it is Colonel Green (TOS: The Savage Curtain; ENT: Demons, Terra Prime) …

Then Peter Weller could indeed be portraying the same character he did in Enterprise (“CEO”), because it was said that he saw Green as a role model.

375. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 9, 2012

testing

376. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 9, 2012

Yes, that’s right. Enterprise brigs even in TOS time were “sealed” with force fields. And yes, it is more likely to be transparent aluminium than anything like perspex/glass…

Could the person behind the TA be in medical quarantine? I think that the hands are more likely to belong to either *Pine/Kirk or Pike, as opposed to Cumby’s “mean dude”.

I realized why my posts have been deleted. It is because the link I posted contained the word p_rn. That needs to be fixed. The word is a legitimate word within the English language…

Anyway, if people want to see why I think now that the hands are more likely to be Pine/Kirk hands, go to Chris Pine tumblr and click onto the “hand p_rn” link. Nice Chris Pine hands to be seen…

377. Disinvited - December 9, 2012

#361. dmduncan

In here:

http://trekmovie.com/2012/04/30/Major

around message 56 Dee makes a comment about wanting to see it. If that’s not the source of your recollection, it should help narrow the timeframe because he/she seems to be referring to it?

378. Walt Kozlowski - December 9, 2012

Hey guys what’s your thoughts on the Score? I’m hoping for a little Goldsmith mixed in! Don’t think we’ll get much in the new trailer!

https://mobile.twitter.com/m_giacchino/status/277337859311157248

379. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

I now have the clarity of knowing there’s no implicit clarity between gameplayers on the rules. And like my hero James T. Kirk, I have lots in common with Ender Wiggin!

Time for reorientation.

The enemy’s gate is down! :-)

368. GermanTrekker – December 9, 2012

Sir, thank you for nodding off and bringing us a treasure from the depths of the unconscious mind!

VERY good speculation. I have paid no attention to Weller, nor am I a great fan of Enterprise, so I saw neither of the two episodes in which he appeared.

But it makes PERFECT sense. WHO would pick Peter Weller out of a vast lineup of better known modern actors to appear in this blockbuster movie unless that actor already had some relevant previous connection with the franchise that is also relevant for STID? Who? Only a fan of Star Trek would. Bob Orci!

Of course, Weller reprises the same role!

And Colonel Green, whom Paxton admired, was a mass murderer (a “one man weapon of mass destruction”) whose fate remains unknown. What an invitation that is to fill it with STORY, while also providing some mystery place for him to return FROM!

Green also has motive: He was a eugenicist who wanted to purify the human genome. Oh how he must hate what he sees of the modern Federation. Spock must be an abomination to him!

Paxton and Green were also eugenicists! So we have eugenicism and a genetic super man angle OTHER THAN KHAN, which explains why he jumps like the Hulk and does NOT look like Khan.

Did not Paxton have some sort of gene therapy? So we also get a possible life extension explanation that could place him in the world of James Kirk.

Hahaha! Now we come to Bob’s lie. What was it?

He said Peter Weller’s character was NEW!

I’m moving the Colonel Green and Paxton theory parallel to the Gary Mitchell theory, above everything else. Gary Mitchell theory stays where it is because of Karl Urban. I need a solid reason to reject Karl Urban, and I don’t have it yet, but I am now actively looking for it.

380. Walt Kozlowski - December 9, 2012

OMG if Horner Theme! It is Khan! LOL!!!

381. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 9, 2012

*Interesting* view that because Lt Uhura is seen being consoled by Scotty, then that has to mean the fatal injury of Spock.

Could it be that she is upset by the general turn of events, the horrors that she has just witnessed? Also, could she not be just as upset if it were Admiral Pike, Captain Kirk or some other crewmember who has been severely injured or killed?

Why should women have to be just like men are supposed to behave – all *brave* and stoic like? Being tearful and seeking comfort are not signs of weakness! Sometimes – quite the opposite. It means that you know you are not an island, that it is alright to console and be consoled etc.

382. Colonel Tigh - December 9, 2012

Robocop is Garth and Cumberbatch is Khan. I’ve come full circle on the Mitchell/Khan debate.

383. Red Dead Ryan - December 9, 2012

I don’t think the sequel has anything to do with John Paxton. Remember, the writers were looking solely at TOS episodes for inspiration.

Colonel Green is a possibility though. But even that is remote.

And if this “AlexKurtzman” dude is to believed, then all of this Khan/Eugenics talk is moot, because all of that is mentioned in “Space Seed”, a first season episode, and that “AK” said the villain is from season two.

However, this could be another imposter throwing more crap out there…

This is getting pretty confusing….

384. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

Hahaha!

If Bob admitted Peter Weller was a CANON character, Weller would have quickly been tied to the role he already played in Enterprise, whether the reasoning for it was sound or not.

Bob couldn’t risk that.

He did the right thing by telling us Weller’s character was new.

385. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 9, 2012

“The following based on reports from other outlets and/or TrekMovie sources. As always, Paramount’s policy is to not comment on what they consider rumors.”

followed by this:

“TrekMovie has also confirmed this with a number of sources so we no longer consider it to be a rumor. Khan is back in 2013, however sources indicate that the film is not a rehash of “Space Seed,” ”

Now this is why there is so much anger and confusion. A number of sources does not make it a fact. Paramount, then and now, has not confirmed anything. Sorry, Anthony – but this is poor journalism.

Then there is the most recent video of some loud female spouting on about it definitely being Khan. She knows no more than the rest of us, and if she really did know, she would be under contract not to say a damn thing until the word is given by TPTB – ie Paramount executive and/or JJ Abrams.

I’d hate to think how these reporters, so called journalists, would report real, non-fiction news. UGH!

Here’s a thought – how about undertaking to abstain from false speech?

386. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

377. Red Dead Ryan – December 9, 2012

I don’t think the sequel has anything to do with John Paxton. Remember, the writers were looking solely at TOS episodes for inspiration.

***

Colonel Green IS a TOS episode character.

Post a quote from Bob saying they ONLY used TOS characters. I want to see it.

387. I am not Herbert - December 9, 2012

wouldn’t you be distraught if Spock sacrificed himself in front of you?

388. I am not Herbert - December 9, 2012

it looks (to me) like the first nine minutes will be the intro to the JJ-version of WNMHGB (with lot’s of overkill and some twists)

this has the POTENTIAL for an EXTREMELY KICK-A$$ movie…

but, they will probly put the usual stamp of low-brow gimmicky fake-looking pandering implausibility all over it (again)… =(

389. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

Think of it. Khan is a dictator. He governs. Colonel Green, on the other hand, IS a mass murderer, and he’s an idealogue, so you can say he’s not strictly good or evil — precisely how Cumberbtch described his character.

Now THAT fits the guy I see in the trailer.

390. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 9, 2012

Since Anthony has not yet confirmed if this AlexKurtzman poster is indeed partner in KO Paper Products and is actually one of the producers/writers of STID, then this poster knows no more than the rest of us and is an imposter. People should not be allowed to use the names of well known people like Roberto Orci (boborci) or Alex Kurtzman as their own pseudonyms on a Star Trek site.

Hopefully, Anthony will get this sorted soon.

391. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

@373 dmduncan,

Not the first time Green has been mentioned, and also not the first time Weller has been linked to Paxton. In fact based on previous depictions, Cumberbatch bears a passing resemblence to Green. The problem with both Paxton and Green is when they were alive. Green hails from the 21st Century while Paxton lived mid-22nd. The fate of Green does not appear to be known in Trek canon, so it is certainly possible he somehow escaped justice and put himself into cryo-sleep like Khan for about 200 years. Paxton was in fact taken into custody, but not only would he have to escape, he too would also have to put himself into suspended animation for about 100 years. So it starts to get a little convoluted that both men, essentially ideologues, would persist in such a manner, without having come to light previously in the Prime timeline. Given that your philosophy in these matters seems to be what is MOST likely, I would have to say this theory isn’t it.

While I would not rule out Green as similarly having escaped like Khan, and surely he would have heard the legends and indeed admired Khan, I would be more comfortable thinking of Paxton as a relative … A Dr. Frankenstein if you will, continuing on with the family business. And it is this relative that comes across Green. But Garth is much easier since he is a contemporary to this time, and embodies much of Green’s philosophies. So a much more LIKELY answer here is, Garth, an admirer of Green, teams up with Paxton’s relative within Starfleet. This makes Weller more of a little white lie, by being related to canon but not actual canon, than a bold-face lie.

But how is this playing by different rules? This is something I would expect, not throwing canon completely out of the window and making Khan I recognizable.

392. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 9, 2012

#382 – How does it help the mood around here if you are always being so cynical and low brow?

393. Red Dead Ryan - December 9, 2012

#380.

It was on an earlier thread from a couple of years ago. TrekMovie reported one of the writers as saying that they were looking at TOS episodes for inspiration, and that they ruled out the Borg, Cardassians, and other non-TOS related villains/races. I can’t remember the exact article, though.

Now, granted, its entirely possible that they changed their minds, either out of necessity, or they found something that worked better.

But still, I don’t think John Paxton will be in the sequel. Colonel Green could be, but even then, I still don’t know if that plotline is what they’re going for in the sequel.

I’m actually leaning more towards an entirely new villain, who may have been created by the writers inspired by both Khan and Gary Mitchell, but without having to worry about the potential baggage of either character.

But who knows? I am not ruling out Khan, Mitchell, or Green at this point anyway.

We just don’t have enough evidence of anything at this point. And Bob did admit to lying about something. Or someTHINGS.

I’m reminded of a classic Yoda quote from “Revenge Of The Sith”:

“Misread, the prophecy could have been.”

394. Nony - December 9, 2012

@372 Walt Kozlowski

I’m really excited to see what Giacchino comes up with this time around! I liked the little hint of his remixed theme at the end of the Japanese trailer (nice to hear some actual music in there besides just the Inception-style Low Brass of Doom). I thought the ’09 score was pretty good, albeit repetitive, with some fantastic moments. It looked like he was pretty loaded down with multiple projects when he was doing the last one, so maybe this one will be even better. I imagine we might see more themes from the Original Series incorporated.

395. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

^^^But how is this playing by different rules? This is something I would expect, not throwing canon completely out of the window and making Khan UNRECOGNIZABLE.

396. I am not Herbert - December 9, 2012

i’m just being realistic… calling it like i see it…

maybe it’ll shame somebody into wanting/delivering a respectable version of MY “religion”: STAR TREK!

397. Charley W - December 9, 2012

Col Green would involve Time Travel (TM), and I hope that we will not be traveling down the SAME road again so soon.

Trelaine is more powerful and wouldn’t be hand-to-hand fighting unless there was some compeling reason. Nor would he need weapons, or go for spot revenge (“I’m going to nuke London because you pissed me off, Kirk!”)

I’m leaning against Khan or any of the other Botany Bay exiles- too much backstory would be needed. Same with any Earth augments.

Gary Mitchell would require at least a partial retelling of events in the comic: what would be the royality situation for the people involved with the comic in that case? Remember how Harlan Ellison reacted when it was just SUGGESTED that they might reuse The Guardian of Forever?

Finnegan’s out because of age and BC’s lack of Irish accent.

Charlie Evans, Peter Kirk, Miri’s friends, Gorgon’s followers, etc can be ruled out due to age.

With Darvin and Apollo, I think we’re getting into the silly side of things.

I think the most likely is either Sam Kirk or one of the Starfleet personel (Decker, Tracey, or even Wesley, Garth or Garrovick- the latter three should be Pike’s contemporaries in age, though and I’d toss because of that).

Again, perhaps we should be looking at second stringers, one of the people in “Ultimate Computer” or “Trouble with Tribbles”, for Instance.

Has anyone suggested Flint?

398. I am not Herbert - December 9, 2012

…so then, like i was saying…

then Gareth can resurrect Spock, as his last dying act of redemption, thus “saving his own soul”, as well as Spock’s life…

…and the credits roll…

399. dontcare - December 9, 2012

@390. If you really think Star Trek is a religion, seek professional help immediately, you are likely to be Schizophrenic.

400. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 9, 2012

Team Khan?

I am not on any team, certainly not based on anyone else’s assertions, wishful thinking, rumour mongering.

I am my own team!

401. GermanTrekker - December 9, 2012

Just consulted memory-alpha.org. Interesting that Manny Coto initially wanted to use Colonel Green for the Eugenics-arc in season four – to be played by Peter Weller, which makes it even more peculiar.

So it is logical to assume that he would have to have used some kind of genetic alteration to stay alive or maybe he was indeed put into cold storage because of his actions.

Also interesting that the entry says, Green was notorious for striking at his enemies during treaty negotiations (Federation/Klingons?), which would complement the “you think your world is safe” line.

Just guessing …

402. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

In ST.09 we have Scotty’s reference to Admiral Archer’s beagle, implying the longevity of that dog’s owner as well. Archer and Paxton were both contemporaries. The longevity possible to Archer can extend to his contemporary, Paxton, as well.

In Space Seed we have 20th century cryo-sleep technology theoretically also placed at Colonel Green’s disposal.

And we have the big fat mystery of what happened to him. It’s unwritten.

Could Bob have been tempted by and resisted the temptation to write it?

Green/Paxton makes sense. There are no logistical problems to overcome it.

And we have a natural fit for that shadowy source of terror from within Starfleet. There are TWO bad guys in this movie, not one. They are working in tandem.

Was it not reported that Weller plays a CEO type character? Isn’t that how you can describe Paxton?

It even makes more sense that Garth, who has no canon eugenicist connections, no tie to Paxton, and no special incredible super human jumping ability. Garth is also a generation AHEAD of Kirk, whereas Cumberbatch is within Kirk’s apparent age range.

403. Dee - lvs moon' surface - December 9, 2012

WOW … so much time has passed since Anthony Pascale talked about Khan as the villain … What he’s thinking about it these days?

I’ve been intrigued … JJAbrams and producers spent so much time keeping the identity of the villain in secret … and do not seem willing to reveal it soon … so … Why show a scene so iconic and associated with Khan as the scene of the hands on the very first teaser of the film? … Mr. Orci? are you out there?

;-) :-)

404. Dee - lvs moon' surface - December 9, 2012

about #397

I bet many people have thought the same … btw lol

405. Slornie - December 9, 2012

My vote is for either a cosmetically altered Sybok, or a new universe interpretation of The Enemy Within, where Spock is split into his human and Vulcan halves (Cumberbatch being the angry human half).

406. I am not Herbert - December 9, 2012

for clarity: i’m one of those “spiritual but not religious” demographics…?

407. I am not Herbert - December 9, 2012

dammit! thought i got “disappeared” again…

408. I am not Herbert - December 9, 2012

huh! i guess i did! touchy! and fickle?

409. Aurore - December 9, 2012

103. dmduncan – December 8, 2012
@102:

No. That 2nd photo is taken from the tail end of the trailer with Cumberbatch in that seat as Kirk enters the room to face him.

His ears are NOT pointed. It’s a trick of how the shadow is falling that makes it look like there’s some pointiness there. There is not. That’s his normal ear.

THAT one is settled.

_______

Personally, and, assuming my reply will be allowed to appear, in order to consider it settled, I would have liked another photo to be analyzed, as well.

Not that I need Mr. Cumberbatch to be wearing prosthetics, not at all.
However this is a shot I found intriguing.

And, I wondered if what I thought I saw in it could be explained in the same manner as you did in your post.

(Note that I never said Mr. Cumberbatch’s ears were pointed.)

410. I am not Herbert - December 9, 2012

weird… oh well…

next theory? ;-)

411. Red Dead Ryan - December 9, 2012

#396.

dmduncan

You make some good points. And it all makes sense. I guess anything’s possible after Bob openly admitted to lying (about something concerning the sequel).

It’s also possible that Section 31 is a part of this (conspiracy?) somehow. I wouldn’t put it past Bob at all.

I suppose its possible that they were trying to keep as much of the plot within TOS canon as possible, but realized that they needed to reach outside of the zone to fill out the story. The main cast are already playing the TOS characters anyway, so I guess that aspect is still going to be there.

So it could be that Paxton, Green, Section 31, Khan/another Augment/Mitchell, the Klingons, and Starfleet are all entangled in an epic struggle to either contain, control, benefit from, or eliminate a powerful group of superhumans who can change the face of the quadrant in profound ways.

412. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

@359, while it could be Green, it doesn’t have to be. Wy convolute these backstories any more than they have to? Garth believed identically to Green and actually has “supernatural” abilities as part of his backstory. We were never told just what his shape shifting ability was limited to. If he could use it to regenerate his body, then he could easily take a few years off … Not that anyone outside of these forums would care. Moreover, with the ability to shape shift, he could team up with Weller, who might be able to help enhance his natural abilities, but also implement a plan to “liberate” the Federation from itself. Known as a weapons expert, his shape shifting could have gotten Garth into Romulan space to procure the last of the red matter he now uses to detonate the fleet (I hope not). But ultimately, he thought nothing of using terror to control people. Real terror. Torturing Governor Cory for the pleasure of it, blowing up his consort Marta after subjecting her to the poisonous atmosphere of Elba II to demonstrate his weapon to Kirk, and attempting genocide on a race of people whose only crime was turning him down.

Garth’s a perfect candidate for a story about a rogue ideologue from within Starfleet to grab for control, and thus bring about the changes within the federation he sees as the only solution to save the Federation (without resorting to bringing yet another character in from a different time). Think about it, Vulcan is gone, there is a power vacuum, with Klingons and Romulans, and anybody else for that matter (Cardassians, Tholians), amassing for a power grab. And yet Garth sees the Federation he helped build resting on its laurels, sending its military fleet out on business-as-usual exploratory and peace missions, taking the often adversarial Vulcans in like intergalactic welfare recipients, all the while wearing rose colored glasses of safety and contentment, despite Nero almost destroying the Earth. Add to that a military industrial type like Weller who shares Garth’s ideologies, and faces a decline of business and power, and you have a recipe for a pretty good conflict relevant to our own time.

413. Red Dead Ryan - December 9, 2012

I am not Herbert,

Can you please stop spamming? Its really annoying reading your really annoying comments over and over again!

414. Dee - lvs moon' surface - December 9, 2012

Oh course now my 397th post makes no sense … :(

415. Dee - lvs moon' surface - December 9, 2012

LOL … can someone explain to me how a post disappears and appears again here? … I’m dizzy … Forget the post 407! +LOL

;-) :-)

416. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 9, 2012

Please – I am not Herbert

I’m sorry but I am not reading anything that is particularly “spiritual” in your postings. Nothing uplifting at all; nothing that would encourage to me to seek out how to ascend to higher levels of consciousness…

You are simply repeating what loads of other anti-Trek 09/JJ Abrams people have said but just trying to put your own spin on it. It’s not working. Leave talk of religion and spirituality out of it until you actually know what you are talking about. Even after that, show caution.

417. Son of Sarek - December 9, 2012

#391 Charley W, yes I proposed Flint earlier in #198.

Now also contemplating that Cumberbatch may also be a Cochrane who returns after attempting to cross the galactic barrier or is being inhabited by a malevolent version of the Companion in this timeline.

418. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 9, 2012

#407 – Been there, done that…:) It’s just the Trekmovie site being the Trekmovie site. It’s best not to worry – just repost with fingers crossed…:)!

419. I am not Herbert - December 9, 2012

ok… trying to be more hopeful… there IS room for hope ;-)

the bluish interior with Dr. Dehner appears to be a new and improved shuttle craft =) hopefully we will also have a new and improved shuttle bay! =)

the shot with Scotty and Uhura appears to be in an ACTUAL ENGINEERING SECTION! =D

Spocks hair looks cool (except when running, etc….)

Dr. Dehner is a HOTTIE, and Nu Kirk flirts with her… =P

420. THE DOOMSDAY MACHINE - December 9, 2012

Maybe Cumberbatch is Matt Decker from the 2nd season episode THE DOOMSDAY MACHINE.

Vengeance, a destroyed fleet, he is wearing a starfleet uniform. Why isn`t anybody talking about this possibility.

421. I am not Herbert - December 9, 2012

Red Dead Ryan calling ME annoying! LOL!

422. Smike - December 9, 2012

Col. Green is a very intruguing idea. I alsmost forget completely about that character. I certainly need to rewatch some TOS episodes I haven’t seen in years. I’ve seen WNMHGB (one of my favourites) about 10 times but Savage Curtain only about twice…This is why I haven’t thought of Green before.

Why not him… In the teaser trailer, Cumby’s character directly adresses THE PUBLIC (i.e. humanity). So his “vengence” thing might have nothing to do with Kirk at all but with politics, with humanity and Earth itself. Mitchell would only hold a grudge against Kirk and the Enterprise crew. Characters like Green or Khan might take on humanity, that defied their “wise” leadership at some point and turned Earth into a multicultural place of tolerance and weakness…

423. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

@396 dmduncan,

Let’s step back a minute. What about the trailer makes us say that Cumberbatch has superhuman abilities? From what I can tell it’s the one leap while fighting the Klingon while wearing that big gun thing. If that’s it, who is to say the outfit is not something like an IronMan suit? And think about that, Ironman is a one man WMD without having any supernatural or superhuman abilities.

Further, it seems like many of the arguments against Khan are based on the fact he is not a one man WMD. Nor would any single Augment. And Mitchell has powers that go way beyond that precluding any hand-to-hand combat. So why would the genetic angle change any of those arguments for Green? How does Green go from being ideologue captain to one man WMD?

Finally, I have to ask your question, which is more likely? A contemporary shape-shifter working with a military industrialist that happens to be related to Weller’s character to stop the federation from making mistakes to undermine themselves and their security using technology to make himself indestrucatable, or a character from another time genetically augmenting himself into a WMD and teaming up with a guy well over 160 years old to remake the federation as Hitler’s master race? Which is less confusing, requires less setup, is most relevant to our time, and will have the most sympathetic reaction from the audience? And keep in mind that one of the most profitable current franchises in history has shape-shifting werewolves at the heart of it.

These are both kind of far-fetched, but we’re still playing the game assuming a level playing field. And while Orci may well have been lying about Weller’s character, if the character is merely related, and not actually him, then it’s a much smaller lie.

424. Smike - December 9, 2012

@412: Matt Decker was a rather old man in “Doomsday Machine” as I recall…I guess thirty years older than Cumby. A war veteran of sorts. Maybe his son Will from TMP? Na, too young…would be a teenager at this point…

425. Cody A - December 9, 2012

The memorial is for Cumby char. if you see Kirk’s and Uhura face on the Klingon planet they are suprised/shock to see him. As in they just put him in the ground shock..

I am still going with Mitchell.

426. MJ - December 9, 2012

“1. The Eugenics war never happened in OUR universe, but who is to say, given the MWI/QM fealty of Bob Orci that, the 23rd century of Star Trek is the future of OUR universe?”

:-)) Yea, OK. Then perhaps the alternate Trek Universe that Spock and Nero universe entered was yet a third different universe where the Khan of the Botany Bay was different appearing, etc.

See how with this type of reasoning, a person can justify any position in Star Trek that you don’t like to have to defend. The “whoops folks, wait, oh yea, different universe — I am right after all,” defense shows some desperation here from you here DM that I would not have expected given that your arguments (even the ones I disagree with) are typically pretty solid.

427. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 9, 2012

I am not Herbert – Unfortunately, your posts reek of sarcasm.

428. dontcare - December 9, 2012

@411 Maybe you should see what a real matter-anti-matter reactor is likely to look like before you talk about Engineering (which has never been real after all). There is no possibility at all of anything resembling the engine rooms of previous Trek incarnations ever working. At least when they made the 09 movie they realized that a ship that size, with no replicators AT ALL, would need a large water supply for the crew to drink, bathe, use sanitary facilities, and so on.

429. I am not Herbert - December 9, 2012

well, i TRY to at least put a witty (pithy?) spin on it… ;-)

430. I am not Herbert - December 9, 2012

well, Scotty won’t be beaming YOU up, Mr. “dontcare”… ;-)

431. I am not Herbert - December 9, 2012

…anyway, it looks better than a brewery, so far… don’t ya’ think, laddy??

432. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

415. Curious Cadet – December 9, 2012

All great fun scenarios! But I think you are adding more to the imagery in the trailer than we find there.

Cumberbatch just looks like he’s wearing jazzy duds in that jump scene, so I find no evidence in it that it’s a “super-suit.”

He also quite easily whips that Klingon with what looks like a heavy gun, and we know from the spy photos that he can power through a Vulcan neck pinch in pretty much the same outfit he’s wearing, AND give Mr. Spock the same arse-buffing he gave that Klingon.

All of that argues great physical strength without any augmenting external mechanical apparatus.

That argues a man with super power, or a man with genetically augmented power.

The other issue with Garth for me is that he should be from Pike’s generation in this universe just as he was in the prime universe, but Character X is clearly younger than that, which makes an augmented and life extended — genetically enhanced — Green more likely, in my view.

You see, Green’s future is a MYSTERY. It’s UNKNOWN and FREE from canon. With a tiny bit of explanatory fiddling, Green can return in Kirk’s age-group whereas Garth is restricted by the pre-incursion reality that he must be the same age and person in both universes.

You can write Green’s future any way you like, and Bob LIKEY the WRITEY!!!

433. Dominic - December 9, 2012

I had been considering the notion that Chekov dies in this installment, but it is more likely he sustains a serious injury, in keeping with tradition. And really, why Starfleet never cancelled his health plan is beyond me. The man is high-risk.

434. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

418. MJ – December 9, 2012

NOT desperation, MJ. That is how MWI/QM is posited to work, and that is what Bob used for his movie. It’s a solid idea. I’ve read scientific speculations that the number of universes could be infinite.

For every possibility there is a real branched off universe where the possibility is actual. That’s the idea.

Star Trek doesn’t make me desperate. It makes me think different, and my focus here isn’t on “being right.” It’s on solving the riddle.

THAT is the gate I’m falling toward.

I have a different objective than you.

435. Aix - December 9, 2012

If it turns out that the hands on the glass scene is actually Kirk and Spock removing dirt on the brig I will unashamedly bow to the feet of the supreme court everyday for a week.

436. Fascinoma - December 9, 2012

Here are some thoughts…

1) What if Khan is in the film, but he isn’t played by Cumberbatch?

2) What if Cumberbatch is not a villain in the same sense, but an antihero, and the villain is someone else?

3) What if the revenge isn’t against Starfleet/Kirk/the Federation?

I’ve been pretty clear on being Team Garth, but I’d actually not at all be disappointed by ANY treatment of the story that was interesting and unexpected.

437. boborci - December 9, 2012

426. DM

The enemies gate os DOWN!!!! ;)

438. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 9, 2012

When Alice Eve was first cast for this movie, she was billed as being a new character, not from canon. Has this changed since? If the information has changed, I am not aware of it.

So why are people referring to her as either being Carol Marcus, Dr Elizabeth Dehner or anybody else known in the Star Trek canon?

Anthony – please could you clear this up. Am I mistaken?

439. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

404. Curious Cadet – December 9, 2012

Garth’s abilities weren’t supernatural. At least they tried to make the explanation for it in Whom Gods Destroy NOT sound that way. They said the people of Antos taught him the skill of cell metamorphosis, or something like that.

Of course that doesn’t cover altering your clothes with your biological appearance, but then that episode wasn’t well thought through anyway — from the special effects to the goofiest crown I ever saw an actor put on his head.

As usual, green Orion slave girl stole the show. For me.

But they DID clearly establish Garth as someone whose military exploits Kirk studied as a cadet, and he was grayhaired like Pike.

440. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

429. boborci – December 9, 2012

You got it, brother! ;-)

Read 373!

441. Chuck - December 9, 2012

“Would it have hurt us, I wonder, just to have gathered a few laurel leaves?”

442. Anthony Thompson - December 9, 2012

411. I am not herbert

Engineering was shot again at the Bud plant but Bob has reported here previously that it received a “cool upgrade”.

443. I am not Herbert - December 9, 2012

No, u GOTTA be sh*ttin’ me… =(

444. Check the Circuit - December 9, 2012

“It is an illusion.”

Hmmmm….what if the images we’ve been seeing are for the benefit of Admiral Pike, whose condition continued to deteriorate after Trek ’09? Could the Talosians be behind the events of STID?

445. The Last Vulcan - December 9, 2012

437. boborci. Totally lost as I’m reading 426 as MJ. So we’re doing the comment number dance on this site once again which has certainly been engineered by sadistic coders specifically to give the participants gray hair. So…. Which enemy gates are down?

And BTW, I claim FIRST on calling Will Decker in a thread here over two weeks ago. :) However, I’m dropping that guess since Will doesn’t have superpowers unless the Borg/V’Ger has nanopowered him and I think that’s a waaaaaaaaaaaaay stretch.

446. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

@424, just how old do you think Green is? The actor who played him in TOS was 47 and looks older. As I pointed out earlier, the actor who played Garth was actually 3 years younger than Shatner — perhaps the explanation there as well was the fact he used his morphing ability to rejuvenate himself. Either way, Cuberbatch is 5 years older than Pine, so too young to play Green either. But as we know from ST09 all it takes to be a hero is saving the Earth, even if it’s your first mission. Meaning there’s nothing in Canon that says Garth could not have gained his notoriety right out of the academy without being much older than Kirk is now.

Besides age is meaningless to these guys … Hunter was only 5 years older than Shatner, yet Greenwood is 24 years older than Pine. In the series Pike would have been about 38 in 2254. That’s canon. Yet in ST09 Pike was about 52 in 2254. If these guys want to make Garth work, there’s nothing to keep them from doing it, canon or not, and I don’t believe there’s anything explicitly in canon that would make Cumberbatch too young to play him, especially considering his regenerative powers.

Also in re: Spock’s neck pinch … That was a still photo, possibly from a rehearsal even. We have no idea if the neck pinch actually worked, do we? That could have been the last thing that happened in that particular fight, no? And there doesn’t need to be a whole full body suit to leap like that. Just shoes, or even an anti-grav enhancer built into that gun. But the bottom line is, you can’t really say its Green until you reconcile whether a one man WMD is a literal term, meaning Green doesn’t need anything else, or whether it applies to a general trait meaning he uses weapons and technology — in which the latter case Mitchell is no longer such a strong contender.

447. The Last Vulcan - December 9, 2012

IMHO the key to understanding just who the flying furburger Cumby (assuming he is a TOS character) is playing is in examining the scenes he’s been seen in the trailers so far:

It is unquestionable that he has superpowers… BUT these superpowers are transitory, otherwise Kirk would have never landed that punch on him. So we need a character whose superstrength comes and goes. So he’s either Gary Mitchell or Clark Kent if Spock’s blood is green due to Kryptonite. There is noooooooo way that a superKhan would go from swinging a freakin’ concrete abutment at a Klingon then get decked by Kirk’s bare hand in the same movie.

Every other TOS character being bandied around simply DOES NOT FIT THESE PARAMETERS. So the bottom line is that Cumby is:

1) Gary Mitchell
2) A non-TOS character
3) A totally new character

I have spoken. Now kneel before The Last Vulcan! :)

448. I am not Herbert - December 9, 2012

yeah, i got censored after all (post re-numbering)… =(

399. dontcare – December 9, 2012

@390. If you really think Star Trek is a religion, seek professional help immediately, you are likely to be Schizophrenic.

this flies, but not my plainly logical response… =(

449. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

446: “@424, just how old do you think Green is? The actor who played him in TOS was 47 and looks older.”

But the actor who posed as Green for Enterprise looks much more like Cumberbatch, so they have two canon options to choose from.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Phillip_Green?file=Phillip_Green,_ENT.jpg

In addition, the Green on Excalbia in The Savage Curtain was a recreation, not the man himself.

450. Tom - December 9, 2012

Forget Sybok, Cumby is the the human version fo Spock! It’s a twist on the Enemy Within, not Kirk but Spock got spilt into two, his hman half and his vulcan half

the below image shows the resemblance:

http://treklegacy.com/EWSTID.jpg

451. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

That link isn’t working for me. Try this:

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Phillip_Green

452. Tom - December 9, 2012
453. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

@426. MJ,
“The “whoops folks, wait, oh yea, different universe — I am right after all,”

Here’s the thing MJ, even without MWI used in the film, the basic conceit of all fictional entertainment is that it takes place in an alternate universe, not the one the audience actually lives in (in most cases). There was no 4077th MASH unit serving in Korea, there was no President Bartlett, and there was no malfunctioning sub-orbital warhead exploded exactly 104 miles above the Earth in 1968.

In the universe of Star Trek, if they say there was a Eugenics war in the 1990s, the audience generally takes this in stride. In fact, almost two decades later, kids going to the movies might actually think, “wow, really!?” It actually plays more believably in 2013 than it did in 1995.

454. Charley W - December 9, 2012

#447:

Assuming “superpowers” (and I do not cecede that as proven), Kirk may have landed the punch at an earlier point in the movie (trailer footage is often non-linear), or perhaps got the drop on him (took him by surprise). Anyway, Superpowers (TM- Marvel/DC) does not necessarily conote infaliabilty notr omniscience.

455. The Last Vulcan - December 9, 2012

454. Charley W

He jumps 30 feet in the air, lands like a cat, and swings a concrete form that weighs at least a ton like a baseball bat. You don’t have to concede that as proven but then again you can also insist that Cumby is playing Mister Mxyzptlk. It’s just as incoherent and contrary to the visual evidence.

456. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

446: “Also in re: Spock’s neck pinch … That was a still photo, possibly from a rehearsal even. We have no idea if the neck pinch actually worked, do we?”

We do, actually. You rehearse for what you are planning to do.

One shot shows Cumberbatch X on his knees with Spock trying to neck pinch him, and Cumberbatch reacting angrily rather than falling unconscious. Another shows Cumberbatch X choking Spock on his feet. And another shows Spock gone with Uhura holding a phaser and Cumberbatch recoiling as if he had just been shot.

So which way is the action moving?

I’m thinking Spock did his best to subdue Cumberbatch X and got thrown off the platform or knocked unconscious offscreen somewhere for his trouble. Uhura then took over and stuns Character X with her phaser.

457. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

@449, dmduncan,

I say again, based on the retconing of Pike alone, age is absolutely irrelevant to the film makers outside of the 4 central characters … even Chekov has problems.

But as for Green, check out the actor’s IMBD page, he is significantly older than Cumberbatch, and certainly looked at least as old as the TOS Green in that Enterprise still to me (2005), which is validated by the way he looks today.

Steve Rankin
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0710292/

458. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

@456 dmduncan,

If you line them up that way sure.

You could also say Cumberbatch is strangling Spock, and Spock kicks him away, then Unura shoots him, and as Cumberbatch comes after her, Spock comes up behind him and neck pinches him, just like he did to Mitchell in the comic… Took Mitchell right out by the way, with an angry look on his face.

Moreover, when Spock is giving him the neck pinch he already has a hole in shirt as if Uhura shot him. If that’s true, is it possible they have phaser-proof vests?

It’s also possible the scene with Uhura is in a completely different part of whatever structure they’re on, and he takes her out before confronting Spock by himself later. I’m not even sure she actually hit him with her shot at this point, or responsible for the hole in his shirt.

But i see nothing concrete in those photos that confirms your scenario.

459. Charley W - December 9, 2012

Are you certain that he jumps that high from a standing start? I’ve checked this and do not see the beginning of that jump- perhaps he is leaping/falling from a higher elevation and only jumping 10 feet for instance, and falling the rest of the way. Or it could be a lower gravity planet. Also, I’m not certain about ‘the concrete form'; there are many materials that appear to be heavy but are fairly light- I suggest Aluminum, or Styrofoam (which is what the thing probably actually IS, is our real world.) There may other, alien materials. Note that I do not say that the character does not have some sort of enhanced ability, just that I don’t think you can assume it as PROVEN based on the trailer that we are talking about.

I know you are joking, but just for the record, Mister Mxyzptlk would be a crossover with another company (DC Comics) and involve licensing rights from that other company. We would know of THAT sort of thing WAY before this, probably even when the initial nogiations were going on.

460. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

@457:

He does not look as old as the TOS Green — who was a recreation — in that photo to me. He looks closer to Cumberbatch’s age, and we are not talking about an actor anyway — we are talking about a character. The CHARACTER in that Enterprise photo looks MUCH younger than the actor whose picture you posted. He doesn’t give his birthdate on IMDB, so maybe he doesn’t want to be typecast by age, but I’m guessing that publicity still is current.

But the bigger issue is as I said that Peter Weller is involved and Green’s future is an open book. You can write it almost any way, particularly when genetic enhancements are allowed.

461. Skulltrail - December 9, 2012

Some thoughts of the scene with Spock and cumberbatch from the JP Trailer : We put this scene at the end of the Movie but i think it could be a much better explantation to put this at the beginning and let him die or something like that to explane why he want to make his ravenge!? But for which Character would that lead us? Most probably Mitchell or am I wrong?!

I am curious which ships are involved in this combat !!!

462. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

@459 Charley W,

I noticed this too. It appears to me that he is leaping up and over to the platform (and wreaks of CGI), suggesting enhanced abilities.

But as you say, it could be a low gravity planet too.

However, he is dressed for head to toe in an unusual looking outfit as well, most notably that kind of special hood. When he talks to Kirk it is pulled back, but shiney like plastic, not like leather with a very interesting ridge pattern. And he only wears it in these superhuman scenes, possibly even as he leaps through the glass. It really suggests to me some kind of special suit, if not a full-on IronMan kind of suit …

463. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

458. Curious Cadet – December 9, 2012

Oh but you are trying to make it sound as if I’m lining them up that way arbitrarily.

Not so.

I think phasers are probably a more reliable knock out weapon than Vulcan neck pinches.

That makes it less likely that Spock is stepping in to give the ole neck pinch a try AFTER Uhura fails to knock Character X out with her phaser shot. Which suggests the action moves the other way: i.e., Uhura steps in to knock him out after Spock fails with his neck pinch. Looks like his eyes are shut in the shot where he recoils as well, suggesting consciousness is about to be lost.

You should ALSO stop looking for concrete clues. They are not made of concrete leading to certain conclusions. They are bits of minutiae, and whether I am correct or not depends on how well I have learned to integrate obscure bits of minutiae to piece together a picture of what really is happening.

Remember, I am not trying to prove that I am correct here to anyone. I am trying to solve the riddle, and that occurs if I put the pieces together correctly, not whether you BELIEVE I have put them together correctly.

I am either putting those pieces together correctly or not independently of what anyone thinks.

464. Eric D - December 9, 2012

Anyone ever think that a 9 minute trailer, the first 9 minutes of the movie at that… could possibly be mostly opening credits?

465. Charley W - December 9, 2012

#462:

Just checked the (Japanese version) trailer. We definately see BC on the DOWN side of the leap (to use a neutral term). I’m guessing that it’s about 3 or 4 times his height, but this is probably not the whole scene.

Kirk and McCoy seem to be wearing the same sort of hooded garment in the scene where they’re running through the red plants. It seems to me that the outfits are more likely to be a disguise or away team protection. It does indicate that BC’s fight with the Klingons is on the red plant planet, with at least Kirk and McCoy involved, perhaps coincidentally. The ridging is probably decoration, or if functional, more likely to be insulation; it does seem to follow any muscles or ligaments to be an power enhancer. Might protect batteries or wiring for heating or oxygen supply, though.

466. Aurore - December 9, 2012

“I seem to remember quite recently — certainly within 2012 and very probably within the last 6 months — that some alleged “insider” source posted a comment in which he claimed that in the movie there was a fight in space between Kirk and Khan wearing spacesuits.”

___________

“Inside The Production” shared quite a few “inside info” with us a few months ago. Most notably on a thread about Benicio del Toro ( posts 59, 74, 107…):

http://trekmovie.com/2011/11/04/j-j-abrams-wants-benicio-del-toro-as-next-star-trek-villain/

Other than that, what you recall reminds me of something I read…on another site ( link if authorized, here) :

“There’s a ‘deep space’ smackdown between Kirk and Khan in space suits. ‘Flying’ suits per my contact.”

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/55344

As has been pointed out earlier, one of the “spoilers” was alluded to on the site.

467. Charley W - December 9, 2012

#464:

That’s not likely (there are logistic reasons for this). It’s probably either the precredit teaser or the first 9 minutes after the end of the credits. (Which also tells me that the credits do not run during the intial scenes of Act 1.)

468. Charley W - December 9, 2012

A few bits:

1) Checking the (Japanese) trailer again, the hands against the ‘glass’ scene: left hand (facing us) is a blue shirt with younger hands- probably (Quinto’s) Spock. The right hand is not elderly, but may be older, is wearing the same sort of greenish woolen-appearing shirt that the fellow talking to Kirk and BC on the ship are wearing. So Spock/BC’s character or Pike is likely.

2) Is anyone familiar with the theory that plants should be redder on planets closer to the sun and bluish/purplish on colder planets? Arthur C Clarke mentions the theory in ‘Before Eden’. It has to do with how plants would release the increased solar radiation.

3) Everyone’s forgetting those stills that were released a few months ago. How does the fight on board what appears to be a cargo ship fit in?

469. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

@463 dmduncan,

Seriously? I’m not doubting your powers of observation, I’m just suggesting that a still frame out of time offers very little certainty, and trying to understand where you’re coming from,

Uhura’s confrontation and Spock’s could happen at completely different times. There’s also another leaked photo with Cumberbatch beating up another blue shirted guy on the ground with Spock interceeding, who is nowhere to be seen in either the Spock fight or the Uhura confrontation.

Further, there are the comics which Orci said are canon, and in those, Mitchell takes phaser hit after hit, oblivious. However, Spock sneaks up behind him and takes him down with the Vulcan neck pinch.

Then there is the presumed phaser hit in the spy photos. If it’s Mitchell, could he be faking it … only turing around to laugh at Uhura? Or are we just past Mitchell here?

Am I to understand you are arguing for a genetically augmented super-Colonel Green here? If that’s the case, then, sure … He can most likely resist the neck pinch, and the phaser would have more effect. So Mitchell’s out for you now? Green is the one man WMD?

470. Sean - December 9, 2012

I watched space seed last night & got to thinking maybe its not khan but one of his contemporaries from the wars…they say in that show 8 of them ruled the global…khan being Asia / India….so maybe Cumberbatch was a ruler of Europe (& why London is shown in the poster)….80 of the super humans were unaccounted for & 75 survived on the Botany Bay….so maybe Cumberbatch was one of the other 5. Plus this is an alternate universe post the kelvin incident & khan was frozen well before that….so how did he go from being Indian to a Brit….plus since del toro bowed out & there was a script rewrite afterwards…makes sense to change the script from khan to his European contemporary. & in space seed they give khan a star fleet uniform to wear….so just cause Cumberbatch has a black star fleet shirt doesn’t necessarily mean its Gary Mitchell. I say the Klingons find Cumberbatch & send him off to attack the federation.

471. Dee - lvs moon' surface - December 9, 2012

to clarify things in the post #404 I was talking about my post 403… I was talking about my posts whatever the number…

Gosh!… the numbers are dancing on trekmovie Sunday… ;-) :-)

472. Charley W - December 9, 2012

Redo of my post #465 (Anthony, is there any chance you could get an edit feature?)

#462:

Just checked the (Japanese version) trailer. We definately see BC on the DOWN side of the leap (to use a neutral term). I’m guessing that it’s about 3 or 4 times his height (about 20-25 feet), but this is probably not the whole scene.

Kirk and McCoy seem to be wearing the same sort of hooded garment in the scene where they’re running through the red plants. It seems to me that the outfits are more likely to be a disguise or away team protection. It does indicate that BC’s fight with the Klingons is on the red plant planet, with at least Kirk and McCoy involved, perhaps coincidentally. The ridging is probably decoration, or if functional, more likely to be insulation; it does NOT seem to follow any muscles or ligaments to be an power enhancer. Might protect batteries or wiring for heating or oxygen supply, though.

473. Bill Roberts - December 9, 2012

Fools! Clearly Cumberbatch is the Horta!!!

474. Sam - December 9, 2012

434. dmduncan – December 9, 2012

“Star Trek doesn’t make me desperate. It makes me think different, and my focus here isn’t on “being right.” It’s on solving the riddle.

THAT is the gate I’m falling toward.”

———————————————–
437. boborci – December 9, 2012

@DM

The enemies gate os DOWN!!!! ;)

———————————————-
Yes!!

475. JJ's Secret - December 9, 2012

I love thinking about the Colonel Greene/Peter Weller/Kahn/Cumby\Enemy Within’ thread.. imagine if that’s what they did!!!… what a great way to bring in the series!!!

What if the 9 minutes in front of the Hobbit is actually a retelling of a series show, letting us see how the crew is together… maybe it has little to do with the movie/Cumby plot line, and that’s why we are seeing it early!!!!

Now, I’m excited.

476. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

#465 Charley W,

So, the fight scene appears to be out of order. Cumberbatch takes out the Klingon on the upper platform, then leaps down following what appears to be a running jump. I’m now taking this out of the category of super-human, or augmented power, and putting it into the category of Jason Bourne.

Also, Kirk and McCoy are absolutely NOT wearing the same garments. Theirs are strictly plain cloth robes. Cumberbatch’s hoodie is high tech looking. It’s definitely rubberized. Not saying you’re wrong about it merely being decorative, but there’s no reason it can’t also provide at least some kind of protection, if not enhancements. Though, I no longer feel he needs that much based on the actual stunt he performs. I had not still framed it and assumed he did something he clearly did not.

477. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

469: “Uhura’s confrontation and Spock’s could happen at completely different times. There’s also another leaked photo with Cumberbatch beating up another blue shirted guy on the ground with Spock interceeding, who is nowhere to be seen in either the Spock fight or the Uhura confrontation.”

Oh? Which shot is that? If you mean some shot other than the one in which Zachary Quinto’s stunt double appears, please post it. Maybe I didn’t see it.

The appearance of that stunt double indicates something very stunt-ish about to happen to Spock. Like taking a dive off a high place or something.

“Seriously? I’m not doubting your powers of observation, I’m just suggesting that a still frame out of time offers very little certainty, and trying to understand where you’re coming from,”

It isn’t merely a matter of what is in a single frame. It’s also how different people absorb the same minutiae and how some correctly come to conclusions that others miss because the assumptions the latter make of what good data means are improperly weighted, causing them to neglect tiny details that are extremely important.

And no, I haven’t dismissed Mitchell because I cannot yet comfortably explain Karl Urban’s comment. At the same time I cannot comfortably fit Gary Mitchell into what I saw in the trailer either, so that naturally pushes me to look for other alternatives.

The big change I experienced today was finally looking at what Peter Weller’s roll is in all of this. That shifted Paxton/Green to a place right next to the Mitchell theory for me.

Paxton/Green makes a lot of sense.

Khan is at the very bottom of the list, carrying the whole list like Atlas on his superior genetically engineered shoulders.

478. DH - December 9, 2012

I think Cumby is the character played by Vic Tayback from the episode ‘A Piece of the Action’. It would explain the big gun.

479. Sebastian S. - December 9, 2012

I could see Cumberbatch playing an Augment who is revived (or perhaps created by Peter Weller’s mysterious ‘company’) who infiltrates starfleet, befriends Kirk and Spock, becomes obsessed with personal power and then betrays starfleet….

Khan could be in the film, but only in a cameo (even a library computer photo, perhaps), and therefore Khan could still be in the movie and yet Cumberbatch would not be playing him (I sincerely do NOT see that happening…). Nor would the entire story be about Khan. I like this scenario a lot better; any ‘new’ story about Khan would only be a glorified rehash; fairly or unfairly doomed to exist under the shadow of TWOK.

I was on the Gary Mitchell band wagon for a long while, but now there is too much evidence to suggest otherwise; no glowing eyes, use of a phaser (Mitchell wouldn’t need it), being locked in the brig (didn’t work out so well in TOS) and his English accent (Mitchell in TOS sounded pretty American to me). None of these really suggest Gary Mitchell (even though I still suspect Alice Eve is playing Elizabeth Dehner… there is no reason why the character couldn’t be used in a non-Mitchell story).

And as we saw in ENT and also in DS9, the Federation (or some rogue members perhaps) did NOT fully give up on Khan’s eugenics dream (or nightmare?). And thus we had the ENT augments in the 22nd century, and even Julian Bashir (proof that they weren’t all bad) in the 24th…

I think an augment (Cumberbatch) who is sent to the academy, befriends Kirk & Co and then turns as his personal ambition grows exponentially would be a far more powerful story than just a bigger budgeted reshuffling of Space Seen and TWOK…..

480. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

466. Aurore – December 9, 2012

Thank you so much, Aurore. You’re awesome!

481. Ahmed - December 9, 2012

There is a new poll on startrek.com about who is the new villain:

“Who do you think Benedict Cumberbatch’s character is for the upcoming Star Trek Into Darkness?

Gary Mitchell
Khan Noonien Singh
A new, unknown character”

http://www.startrek.com/

So, it is either Gary or Khan or someone completely new to Trek universe.

482. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

@ 379. DMDUNCAN,

Wait …

Is boborci in 437 acknowledging you are on the right track with your Paxton and/or Green theory!?

I think he is!

483. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

I think Weller is the clue that unravels the mystery. From Collider:

“Of course J.J. Abrams is very tight-lipped about his projects, but I do know that it’s a substantial role and that Peter is playing a C.E.O.”

http://collider.com/peter-weller-star-trek-2-character/131159/

Now look at Paxton as the head of Terra Prime:

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=peter+weller+paxton&qpvt=peter+weller+paxton&FORM=IGRE

He REEKS of CEO-ness as Paxton, AND he already threatened to destroy Starfleet!

484. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

482: “Is boborci in 437 acknowledging you are on the right track with your Paxton and/or Green theory!?”

I don’t think so. Bob is not acknowledging that. He’s just acknowledging my Ender’s Game reference in a much later post.

He’s producing Ender’s Game, you know, and I am a fan of that book. And he responded to my reference in 426 which NOW seems to be gone. It WAS a response to MJ. Now MJ has # 426. So it’s gone.

Maybe it’ll come back.

485. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

@477 dmduncan, I don’t know if this link will post or not:

i.ytimg.com/vi/iqa8LP5S7NA/0.jpg

Found this in a Google search … Had not seen it before either …

486. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

Update: My post which WAS at 426 at the time Bob replied to it is now showing up at 434 on my screen.

This place is jacked, man.

But that post (now 434) is the Ender’s Game ref that Bob referred to.

487. TrekMadeMeFat - December 9, 2012

I’m going to go with Khan.

But ONLY because it’s Khan.

488. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

^^^ never mind, just realized that could easily be the stand in, or stunt guy. Still it is a shot I hadn’t seen of him pummeling Spock on the ground …

489. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

485. Curious Cadet – December 9, 2012

Yeah, that’s one of the stunt double shots. There are more of them. It all seems to be happening on that same platform, taken at the same time by the spy photographer.

490. MJ - December 9, 2012

@434 “For every possibility there is a real branched off universe where the possibility is actual. That’s the idea.”

The difference here is that you applying it to more Star Trek-specific universes than are shown in Trek to try to get out of answering why the Eugenics Wars and Khan didn’t happen in the 1990’s (in reason #1 that you provided to answer this conundrum). So what you are saying is not know canon at all.

I mean, I just as easily, could explain away why Khan could be different looking and acting by falling back on the MWI as well. But that would not be canon yet either.

So if you are going to use MWI to explain your arguments, you need to recognize that I can use MWI to explain mine as well.

491. Garak - December 9, 2012

did nobody record a trailer preview in Butt-Numb-A-Thon? cell, tablet, iphone? youtube? Nothing? I don´t want to wait until friday.

492. MJ - December 9, 2012

@491. LOL

493. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

490: “I mean, I just as easily, could explain away why Khan could be different looking and acting by falling back on the MWI as well. But that would not be canon yet either.”

No, you can’t. Not if the rebootiverse is a duplicate copy of the prime universe until the moment Nero makes his incursion. If that’s the case, then Khan HAS to be the same in both.

You can posit other universes where there’s a Cumberbatch villain named Khan, sure, but those would not be branched off copies of the prime universe, whose division into separate universes was caused by Nero’s incursion.

494. Tom - December 9, 2012

Anthony

what was the final determination for Nimoy? In or out?

495. MJ - December 9, 2012

“No, you can’t. Not if the rebootiverse is a duplicate copy of the prime universe until the moment Nero makes his incursion. If that’s the case, then Khan HAS to be the same in both.”

Exactly. And in that original universe, which there is nothing in canon to suggest that it is not our current universe, 50 million people didn’t die in the Eugenics Wars in the 1990’s, nor was the technology available for a ship which had some type of stardrive and suspended animation technology built and used by Khan or anyone to escape earth.

Here is an infinitely more believable explanation. Star Trek is “not real” (sorry, DM!), and when Gene L. Coon wrote Space Seed he simply overestimated the advancements and technologies that would be available in the 1990’s. This is my “theory” on why we didn’t see the Eugenics Wars or Khan escape Earth 20 years ago. ;-)

And so, given Star Trek is not real, then I would suggest the Orci and Kurtzman, when they correct the Gene L Coon writing error for the Khan back-story in the new movie to move the Botany Bay and Eugenics wars to the mid-20th century, then they could certainly take some further artistic license to further redefine Khan…i.e. to make BC and Trek 2013 fit their needs to come.

496. MJ - December 9, 2012

meant, “move the Botany Bay and Eugenics wars to the mid-21st century.”

497. Justin Olson - December 9, 2012

@ 374. GermanTrekker & 379. dmduncan:

I would just like to point out that — if the villain does turn out to be Colonel Green — that I’ve thought it might be him ever since I first saw a production photo of Cumberbatch in costume. Also, I was the first to introduce it into these comments in posts #186 & #188*. So, there!

:)

*I’m sure someone else brought it up in another article too. Just sayin’.

498. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

@495 MJ,

Forget MWI. In 1986 when audiences showed up to watch the Voyage Home in record numbers … They most likely realized that they were not watching a documentary about two Humback Whales named George and Gracy living at the Cetacean Institue in Suasalito California.

There is no reason to correct such things, because the audience KNOWS these events to do not happen in the same reality they live in. So I doubt the filmmakers will feel the need to do it, nor do I expect they will even need to mention specific dates.

499. Craiger - December 9, 2012

I found this Youtube video showing Kirk questioning Khan. Kirk said Khan left in the early 1990’s. However Voyager went back into time during the 1990’s and they didn’t show the Eugenic’s Wars. Some think the Eugenics Wars and WW3 are the same thing. WW3 in Trek’s time happened in 2063.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8TSBCVd37U

500. Craiger - December 9, 2012

#497, Interesting if Col. Green is the bad guy what if he escaped Earth and also genetically enhanced himself. Maybe he was on the same ship as Khan? What if Khan and all his people get killed by Weller as a Captain of a Starfleet ship and Col. Green is the only that survives and seeks vengence against Starfleet. Or the Klingons find him and accidently kill Khan and his people trying to revive them?

501. Bobs - December 9, 2012

There are hundreds of people working working on this movie and not even the villians name has leaked? I mean the government couldn’t keep Watergate a secret, so what the hell is going on here? Someone knows something.

502. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

@497 Justin Olsen,

Not even close … The first speculation that Green might be in the movie was almost a year ago exactly when Weller was first cast:

http://trekmovie.com/2011/12/05/peter-weller-cast-in-star-trek-sequel/

503. Bob - December 9, 2012

Shut up about Col. Green. He’s a minor character in a bad 3rd season episode. He’s not in this movie.

504. Craiger - December 9, 2012

MJ, I looked up if Coon also wrote Balance of Terror and he came up with the Romulan backstory also. That really messed with the Enterprise series also.

505. Craiger - December 9, 2012

Bob – I think Orci said the bad guy wouldn’t be a first season character.

506. Dan - December 9, 2012

Its not Green.

507. MJ - December 9, 2012

@504. Exactly Craiger! And the Enterprise writers had to “adjust” the back story, just as the writers of Trek 13 have I am sure adjusted the Khan back story. If they preserve the overall high-level concept of Khan, and have BC play him, but make him a bit different, I have no issues like it. I’m sure that is the direction they are taking here given the fact that Gene L Cook back-story is already DOA given the Khan events never happened in the 1990’s.

508. The Last Vulcan - December 9, 2012

Yeah, lots of people know lots of stuff about this movie, but it seems that The Godfather JJ has told them that if they don’t keep their mouths shut, they swim with the fishes. :)

I’ve seen every single minute of every Trek ep ever and I can’t come up with anyone else who is superpowered one minute and totally mortal the next if it’s not Gary. I will gladly eat humble pie if anyone can suggest a suitable alternative THAT FITS IN WITH WHAT IS IN THE TRAILERS, not fanboi fantasies. :)

509. The Last Vulcan - December 9, 2012

Sorry for the double post:

459. Charley W – Yes, Mxyzptlk was a joke, I might as well have said a Care Bear. :)

510. MJ - December 9, 2012

@498 “Forget MWI. In 1986 when audiences showed up to watch the Voyage Home in record numbers … They most likely realized that they were not watching a documentary about two Humback Whales named George and Gracy living at the Cetacean Institue in Suasalito California. There is no reason to correct such things, because the audience KNOWS these events to do not happen in the same reality they live in. So I doubt the filmmakers will feel the need to do it, nor do I expect they will even need to mention specific dates.”

I agree 100%. So the writers obviously have the freedom to update these to keep the illusion that canon consistency still works. Well said!

511. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 9, 2012

MJ – Why are so invested in the villain being Khan? It feels like an obsession to me. It’s not that you and others don’t make some good arguments for the villain to be Khan, but there are others who could do just as well. Honestly, I feel really concerned for you if it is revealed that nobody is playing Khan because he is not in the movie at all, anywhere.

And if Khan is the “one mean dude”, then I think you are going to be totally insufferable…

512. Craiger - December 9, 2012

One thing, I thought of about Cumberbatch flying down and taking out that Klingon. Did anything think that is just gravity happening? Kirk used gravity on Nero’s ship to fly down to another level. Also Cumberbatch has a big gun he uses to take down that Klingon.

Also with the two hands on either side of the glass, what if one is Spock and the other is Kirk’s? What if Kirk dies to save his ship and crew?

513. MJ - December 9, 2012

@508. But yet you fail to provide positive support about how the trailer supports a resurrected super-powerful Mitchell? The trailer does not support Mitchell. Mitchell never acted like a hand-to-hand combat superhuman, and where is the glow in his eyes?

514. Craiger - December 9, 2012

Sorry I mean anyone instead of anything in my last post.

515. Craiger - December 9, 2012

MJ, you’re right. In WNMHGB doesn’t Mitchell use lighting or something like that to go after Kirk?

516. MJ - December 9, 2012

@511. Keachick, do you ever have anything positive to say regarding my posts? Basically, every single time you address me you are putting me down. I’ve providing a number of posts in recent months agreeing with you on some topics, but you just ignore them, instead waiting to criticize me ever chance you get. I get it — you don’t like me. You have made that point once again.

Sheesh!

517. Justin Olson - December 9, 2012

@ 502. Curious Cadet:

See my asterisk. That’s precisely what I said.

I was sure someone had brought it up in the comments of a previous article and I said so. What I meant was that I was the first to introduce it into the comments here, in THIS article. Clearly, that’s a distinction that could only be taken humorously — as it was intended.

518. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

@499 Craiger,

See Memory-Alpha entry on Khan. Kirk was speculating based on the age of the ship. Khan ruled from 1992-1996 when he left in self-imposed exile.

As far as Voyager was concerned, they arrived in 1996, so technically it was after the augments left. So as far as that period of history, it is consistent within the Trek universe with what they’ve depicted. More importantly, that was an alternate timeline created in 1967 in which it is entirely possible that Khan never came to power.

519. MJ - December 9, 2012

“More importantly, that was an alternate timeline created in 1967 in which it is entirely possible that Khan never came to power.”

Huh??? Are you actually saying that Gene L. Coon created an alternate timeline in 1967 where Trek is real and Khan happened in the 1990’s. Are you really saying that? wtf? LOL :-))

520. Jack - December 9, 2012

You know, if it is Khan — it means you guessed right. Work on that skill, and you may win yourself the lotto.

I’m not guessing. But Khan’s still possible. Mitchell seems unlikely given what we’ve seen. And anyone online confirming that it’s Khan probably hasn’t done their homework and likely knows little about Trek.

521. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

@510 MJ,
” So the writers obviously have the freedom to update these to keep the illusion that canon consistency still works. Well said!”

Thanks, but that wasn’t the point, nor what I implied.

522. Craiger - December 9, 2012

I wonder if when Urban got off that plane he meant to say Cumberbatch’s version of Khan not Mitchell is going to be exemplary.

523. Craiger - December 9, 2012

Aren’t we also forgetting that their is new canon after Nero’s incursion? So all the bad guy’s after Nero’s incrusion will be different, by how much we don’t know.

524. Rob - December 9, 2012

Come on everybody. I realize I have just a few posts here, and have all the political capital of a cup of hot coaco. But, I have got to say that there are too many people taking things personally here.

In the end, if we get a damned good movie that entertains and furthers the characters and Canon of Star Trek, who cares who Cumberbatch portrays? Who gives half a tribble turd who is right?

Truth is there are INDICATIONS (ranging from strong to wispy) that indicate 3 established characters or an entirely new character.
I have read some good theories about Khan…especially the theory that suggests that the federation is dabbling in eugenics themselves with Weller finding Khan, etc. I have read (and offered a) potentially possible theories in support of Mitchell. Lord Garth is also bandied about with some authority. But the SC is where they are for a reason. They are very good at what they do. NONE of us has any special insight or virtue to be able to figure these guys out.

Yes its fun…but it is decidedly less so when playing king of the mountain becomes more important that just having fun with this.

Peace all!

525. cakeman - December 9, 2012

@ The Last Vulcan

Cumberbtcth is actually holding a large gun with a harness attached to it which he swings at the Klingon. Not a broken pillar.

Still it’s got to be pretty heavy for a normal human.

526. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

@ 512 Craiger,
“I thought of about Cumberbatch flying down and taking out that Klingon. Did anything think that is just gravity happening?”

After watching again closely, I’m convinced that’s what we are seeing. They’ve cut that scene out of order to create the impression that something super-human is happening, which I do not believe is the case at all. If you step through it, it appears as though Cumberbatch got a running start and then leaped off the platform. But they’ve cut it so it appears he merely lifts off like Superman. When he leaves the platform, the angle gives the impression he goes vertically into the air, but what I think really happens is he goes horizontally, coming forward toward the Klingon rather than up into the air. And because of the perspective the platform looks higher than it is, which is likely only about 8 feet tops. Then they cut back to the top of the platform making us think he has landed and attacked all in one incredible move.

So Cumberbatch is more like Jason Bourne here, and less like an Avenger.

527. MJ - December 9, 2012

@520 “You know, if it is Khan — it means you guessed right. Work on that skill, and you may win yourself the lotto.”

How about this instead. Orci provides an obscure clue that infers the winning lotto number. Anthony then posts the winning lotto number in an article here based on multiple sources. Then, you all ignore the clue and Anthony’s confirmation of the winning number, and I cash in this winning lotto number!

;-)

528. Rob - December 9, 2012

And I would also very much like to remind all of us that there is a world of difference between a character based on canon and the final version of said character as imagined by the SC. No matter who it is … They are nearly CERTAIN to be different in many ways. That’s who the SC IS!

529. MJ - December 9, 2012

@526. You are conveniently ignoring two other pieces of information:

— an earlier spoiler had BC’s character shaking off a Vulcan nerve pinch

— the snyopsys says he is a one man WMD

530. JeffreyNdallas - December 9, 2012

Why does everyone think the gun ways at ton? 300 years from now, and from different alien race, why could the gun not be made of super light alloys and weigh practically nothing? Just a thought….I would not base the character’s abilities off of that one item and who it could be from that.

531. Torlek - December 9, 2012

It’s Charlie Evens.

532. MJ - December 9, 2012

@528 “And I would also very much like to remind all of us that there is a world of difference between a character based on canon and the final version of said character as imagined by the SC. No matter who it is … They are nearly CERTAIN to be different in many ways. That’s who the SC IS!”

E X A C T L Y ! ! !

533. LogicalLeopard - December 9, 2012

greasy more- a lot more? Sorry, autocorrect.

534. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 9, 2012

#503 – “Shut up about Col. Green. He’s a minor character in a bad 3rd season episode. He’s not in this movie.”

Who are you to tell others to shut up about their own speculations about who the actors may be playing? You know as much as anyone else and that is – ZILCH. As for the character and episode/series – in your opinion. Others may have a different view.

535. Rob - December 9, 2012

@532:

Thanks. It is for that very reason that I go back and forth on who it is. Let’s take the neck pinch as a wee example. Just cuz the IDW comics showed Mitchell falling prey to Spocks special massage, doesn’t mean that the movie…potential, that is…. Mitchell as worked out by the SC hasn’t figured out to resist it. Conversely, is it possible that an augment either captured or created star fleet, would be inherently resistant? Sure.

Point is that we just don’t know what the SC has created, nor can we underestimate the level of image control they have designed in the roll out. These guys are master manipulators. Many of us fell for the hands touching through the clear brig glass to be a nod to it being Khan, only to find out courtesy of the reporting out of Austin that its not clear AT ALL.

Fun! Cripes the SC is diabolical!

536. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 9, 2012

MJ – Oh never mind…what’s the use?

537. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

@ 529 MJ,

Not at all. I’m just describing what I saw in the trailer.

And you and dmduncan seem to agree about the Vulcan neck pinch from the leaked spy photo. However, I do not see it so black & white. NOTHING about that picture suggests to me that Cumberbatch did anything other than collapse after that photo. All we have are 5 still photos, no guarantee they are in a particular order, nor Uhura and Spock are even in the same place. Nor that what we saw in the photo even remotely ended up in the movie like that.

And the synopsis actually doesn’t say Cumberbatch is a one man WMD. We all assume that. But given that he is, we also assume this means he is somehow super-human. Jason Bourne could be called a one man WMD (it’s called hyperbole), and so could Iron Man. And so could a guy with a lot of explosives and a remote control. The synopsis is meant to fool us, and we aren’t trying hard enough.

@539 jefferyNdallas,

Why does everybody think its a gun? It’s a peice of debris that he picks up when fighting a Klingon on the platform, then drops before he jumps off the platform. Two shots cut in reverse order.

538. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

495: “Here is an infinitely more believable explanation. Star Trek is “not real” (sorry, DM!),”

An apology isn’t necessary because you are not portraying any position I hold. You are apologizing for an imaginary position that you think I hold.

539. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

464. Eric D – December 9, 2012

Anyone ever think that a 9 minute trailer, the first 9 minutes of the movie at that… could possibly be mostly opening credits?

***

lol.

540. Vorus - December 9, 2012

@519

No, he’s saying that when Captain Braxton landed in 1967 and changed things, that alternate timeline possibly wouldn’t have included Khan, thus explaining his apparent absence in 1996 in that episode.

541. gingerly - December 9, 2012

@286

Reminds me of similar speculation regarding another JJ project, Cloverfield.

Remember all the endless arguments about this misquote?

“It’s a LION! It’s HUGE!!”

542. gingerly - December 9, 2012

@539

I’m telling you, it’s going to be a setpiece, like George Kirk in 2009 or like that awesome opening for 2004’s Dawn of the Dead.

It’ll either be the tail-end of one of their rebooted TOS adventures or it’ll be the set-up for this film…Cumberbatch’s backstory and whatnot.

543. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

I think the Peter Weller character is the key to all this.

544. Wes - December 9, 2012

@542 gingerly:

You nailed it, according to press reports from the screening of the IMAX footage tonight. It does open onto an Enterprise mission to the “red vine planet”, where the crew is apparently attempting to stop a volcano from wiping out the planet.

While the Enterprise awaits them out at sea, all incognito under the water.

And we still don’t find out who Cumberbatch is playing. lol

545. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

542. gingerly – December 9, 2012

You are probably right, gingerly. I think it’s going to be whatever happens in the real movie before the “Star Trek” logo appears to Michael Giacchino’s rousing fanfare.

546. PRCCOLE - December 9, 2012

I’ll just leave this here…

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=97913

547. AB - December 9, 2012

@ 537. Curious Cadet

Why does everybody think its a gun?

If you look at it in slow motion, you can see that it’s a weapon of some sort (probably a gun, but not definitely) which has a strap attached to it that is looped over his left shoulder.

After looking at that sequence more closely, it appears that the shot of him jumping up into the air towards a Klingon and the shot of him landing in front of a Klingon and knocking him down are from two different sequences.

When he jumps into the air, he only has a gun in his left hand and nothing in his right. And the Klingon he is shooting at is already going down before he lands. Then it cuts to the shot of him swinging the large weapon that’s in his right hand and knocking down another Klingon who was still standing. He also has a gun in his left hand at this same moment.

548. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

545. Wes – December 9, 2012

Ooh! So it sounds like it IS going to be a mini episode.

549. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

Oh man. After reading that I am so psyched.

550. Red Dead Ryan - December 9, 2012

Yeah, not surprised that the trailer isn’t going to reveal much about Benedict Cumberbatch’s character. Still, the synopsis sounds really cool.

Glad I’m going to see “The Hobbit” later in the week.

551. The Sinfonian - December 9, 2012

“Red Vines” planet? Good nickname since we haven’t got anything else to call it. Should go well with some Dr Pepper.

552. Sebastian S. - December 9, 2012

# 504 Craiger

Sorry, but you’re mistaken about the late Gene L. Coon writing the Romulan backstory. While Coon did write many parts of the TOS bible and the backstory for the Klingons, he did NOT write the backstory for the Romulans. Paul Shneider wrote the episode (directed by Vincent McEveety). On the TOS remastered DVD sets, Shneider said in an interview that the Romulans were partly inspired by his then-young son, who was really into Roman culture and mythology at the time…

553. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

526: “After watching again closely, I’m convinced that’s what we are seeing. They’ve cut that scene out of order to create the impression that something super-human is happening, which I do not believe is the case at all. If you step through it, it appears as though Cumberbatch got a running start and then leaped off the platform. But they’ve cut it so it appears he merely lifts off like Superman. When he leaves the platform, the angle gives the impression he goes vertically into the air, but what I think really happens is he goes horizontally, coming forward toward the Klingon rather than up into the air. ”

I do not agree with your analysis. The arc of that leap is too dramatic, and the platform is too narrow to get a running jump from — nor would a running jump account for that arc if Michael Jordan in his prime were the guy they hired to make it.

It’s fairly obvious to me that the platform he leaps from is the same platform that comes in the cut AFTER the leap ON which he knocks the Klingon down with the gun. And it’s fairly narrow running perpendicular to the direction of his jump.

No running in that direction on that platform to build up any speed. He would have to run parallel to build up any speed, and parallel would be OPPOSITE to the direction he actually leaps in.

Whoever is doing that stunt is on a line almost certainly in front of a green screen. That is NOT a stunt man doing an unassisted leap. It is either that or a CGI. In either case, that is a special effect, either mechanical or computerized, and that wouldn’t be necessary if that were a normal human jump.

That was my original impression, and it stands up to constant back and forth replay on my screen.

So I cannot agree with you that this guy is an average human doing average things.

554. Sebastian S. - December 9, 2012

# 547 PRCCOLE~

Just read your link!! Great find. ;-D
It sounds like it opens as a typical ST adventure in the best sense. Alien world, weird stuff going on. Already excited.

And the Cumberbatch villain probably has contacts with the company (of which Weller is the CEO) that can ‘augment’ humans and make them more powerful… and Cumberbatch is their starfleet-based prototype for such a super soldier. My guess anyway…

But he is NOT Khan…. ;-)

555. PRCCOLE - December 9, 2012

# 553 Sebastian

Just a little gift to the community from a long-time lurker! I am just glad that the article states that there is some kind of explanation as to how a starship can operate underwater…looking forward to seeing it next week!

556. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

@550 RedDeadRyan,

Yup. Called that the day I heard it. Abrams was never going to tell us who Cumberbatch was this early unless he had to … So I guess he doesn’t have to.

557. Red Dead Ryan - December 9, 2012

#555.

Yes, and its one of the reasons why I’m still sticking with Khan being the villain.

558. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

And since Cumberbatch makes an appearance in it, it won’t be unrelated to the rest of the movie.

Sounds like it starts in one place and then shifts to an adventure in progress before returning to what he’s up to.

559. Wes - December 9, 2012

@551 – The Sinfonian

“Red Vines” planet? Good nickname since we haven’t got anything else to call it. Should go well with some Dr Pepper.”

And there we have it folks, we may not know Cumby’s character’s identity, but we now know his motivation. He’s after the galaxy’s supply of Red Vines!

Walter Bishop will not be pleased. :-P

560. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

555: “Just a little gift to the community from a long-time lurker! I am just glad that the article states that there is some kind of explanation as to how a starship can operate underwater…”

That’s hilarious. I can see Bob arguing that they have to put that explanation in there to shut up fans who would say “That’s not possible!!!”

561. Red Dead Ryan - December 9, 2012

“Red, red vine…”

562. Rob - December 9, 2012

@558.. great Walter reference!

Now onto the new details. Sounds pretty awesome. But here again, no closure. You could make a case for either Kahn or Mitchell here.

Respectively, Khan could help the little girl with genetically enhanced blood, DNA etc., while Mitchell has shown the ability to control his own metabolic systems….why not be able to do it to some other entity?

I think the key is to ascertain who Clarke portrays. Obviously, whatever is being offered ain’t come cheap to the desperate parents. If we can determine what Cumby is trying to gain, it might be easier to piece it together.

In all, I am still thinking Khan and Mitchell are in the running, but despite the guaranteed canon nature of the villain by the SC, it could also well be a new character.

Yipes.

563. LogicalLeopard - December 9, 2012

353 Curious Cadet

1) Sorry for the lag in time. I don’t think the plastic surgery angle is a cheap way to go. Yes, Khan is proud, but he’s smart. If he really wanted revenge, he can’t just waltz back to Earth and start planting explosives. And if he wanted a BIG result, people can’t know he’s Khan. In the original movie, he wanted revenge on Kirk. His identity was known, so greasy more straightforward instead of plotting. But if he wants revenge on Earth, he’s got to think bigger. I’m not saying that’s a great way to do it, but it does make sense.

2) As far as suspension of disbelief, we all had to do the same thing with the facelift the Enterprise got. And your Joker makeup analogy was right on. As I understand, Joker’s skin is white because of the acid he fell in to become the Joker. But in the DarkKnigjt, its clearly makeup because its coming off by the end of the movie. But Ledgers performance was so strong nobody complained. That Joker was a very different portrayal than the almost nonsensical, random comic character, but it was GOOD, so we suspend disbelief.

As far as JJ and the fans, when you think about it, we’re putting way more expectations on JJ&Co than we EVER put on previous Trek movies or series. Think about Space Seed. How does Kirk stumble upon one of the greatest dictators in history….and just decide to strand him on a planet? That be like a Navy ship in the 70’s finding Hitler, and stranding him on an Island because he’s too much trouble. “Captains log. Came alongside a drifting yacht. Found Hitler and some Nazis aboard. They tried to take over the ship. We won. But instead of bringing him in to face trial, left him on a deserted island with some supplies. Left Ensign Smith there too. Easier than court martial.”

564. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

@561 Rob,

So Khan hangs out outside of Hospitals offering augment gene therapy to unsuspecting parents? Interesting role for the absolute leader of 1/4 of the Earth’s population. Mitchell’s out for me too.

Still hope for Colonel Green and Capt. Garth …

565. Rob - December 9, 2012

@564

Nor saying ANY character would simply hang out waiting for unsuspecting parents; that no mattwe who it is, they are taking advantage of the people somehow. Prolly has to do with who they are or work for. Cumbys unknown villain obviously has a devious angle.

566. Mark James Tucker - December 9, 2012

MJ,
Mitchell and kirk did fight hand to hand at the end of WNOHGB, when Dehner drained him of his powers temporarily his eyes went back to normal and him and kirk fight hand to hand, before his powers come back.
Seriously when was the last time you watched WNHGB? I think you need to go back and take a look.

on a side note addressed to everyone in general,
Why would Khan be hanging around a hospital going up to mournful parents offering them a creepy smile and saying maybe I can help
.
At same time why would mitchell be as well, but I am trying to think are there any Genetics scientists in TOS who were villians or could be potential villians?

I suspect that Weller is going to turn out to be a Descendant of Paxon.
or connected to him somehow. And I wouldnt be surprised if he isnt in fact the main villian and that Cumberbatch is kind of the main henchman.

I definately still think its not KHAN.

567. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

@ 563 LogicalLeopard,

That’s pretty funny. Definitely an interesting choice by Kirk. It makes you wonder if he didn’t file a report and swore the crew to secrecy. Would certainly explain why nobody ever checked on him, even after Ceti Alpha VI exploded. I mean given the Kodos episode, clearly war criminals were still brought to trial. On the other hand, not knowing exactly how Starfleet’s penal system was set up, he and his crew might have well been sentenced to life on an uninhibited planet anyway.

I just thought of a good reason for Khan to look different — horribly disfigured by an explosion when the Klingons were trying to revive him, and this is the face the Klingon doctors gave him. Just don’t buy Khan would ever do it to himself for any reason.

568. Disinvited - December 9, 2012

#494. MJ

The orignal treatment for SPACE SEED centered it in 2090. Not sure why 100 years were lopped off?

I remember in the real 1990s, I just chalked it up to WWIII’s coming devastation would make it real hard on 23rd century historians.

Remember LDS from STIV?

I’m still waiting for history to record the destruction of the U.S.’s only attempt at an orbiting nuclear missiles launch platform.

;)

569. Mark James Tucker - December 9, 2012

“Think about Space Seed. How does Kirk stumble upon one of the greatest dictators in history….and just decide to strand him on a planet? That be like a Navy ship in the 70′s finding Hitler, and stranding him on an Island because he’s too much trouble. “Captains log. Came alongside a drifting yacht. Found Hitler and some Nazis aboard. They tried to take over the ship. We won. But instead of bringing him in to face trial, left him on a deserted island with some supplies. Left Ensign Smith there too. Easier than court martial.”

Your taking the ending of space seed out of context, Kirk at the end of space seed inspite of the fact Khan tried to take control of the ship, Kirk still has a respect and admiration for Khan. He gave him the opportunity to tame a unknown world rather than take him back and throw him in intergalatic jail, because he actually had a bit of faith in him.

You all seem to forget the episode made a point of stating that Khan wasnt the same as the other dictators of that era, he ruled a large portion of the earth without resorting to Genocide and slaughter and internal striffe and conflict.

When he and his followers fled, they were leaving of their own will, and they were heading out to find a new world where they could build a society they wanted. Kirk offered them that when he left them on Ceti Alpha, had Ceti Alpha Six never exploded, Khan never would have been vengeful on kirk and crew. or if starfleet had checked up on them, he wouldnt have been vengeful.
It wasnt in his character.

570. dmduncan - December 9, 2012

564: “So Khan hangs out outside of Hospitals offering augment gene therapy to unsuspecting parents? Interesting role for the absolute leader of 1/4 of the Earth’s population. Mitchell’s out for me too.”

lol!

Mitchell is NOT out for me, though. I wonder if Vegas is taking bets? I’d put some on Mitchell, and some on Paxton/Green. That’s GOT to be a long shot. I could make some good $ on that bet if I’m right.

Oh, and I’m out on the new character theory, and that Bob’s lie was that the character was canon.

The character IS canon. Bob didn’t lie about that.

Bob’s lie was that Peter Weller’s character was NEW.

If tomorrow was opening day and tomorrow afternoon was answer time, that’s where I’d put my $$$ right now.

Or, to put it another way that makes me feel less comfortable, if I was Agent Starling and Gary Mitchell lived in an apartment contiguous to roommates Paxton and Green, I would knock on both their doors simultaneously and draw my pistol while waiting to see who was home.

571. MJ - December 9, 2012

@553 “So I cannot agree with you that this guy is an average human doing average things.”

Well, we can agree on this point at least, DM.

572. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

@ 571 MJ & DM,

I never said that. I said Jason Bourne, and Bourne is not average, indeed he is genetically modified as we discovered in Legacy not to mention extremely well trained.

Absolutely agree actor is on a wire, but I disagree it necessarily means the guy has augment capabilities. He turns, he runs, he leaps straight out and lands. Since it cuts there I’ll bet you he takes a tumble then gets up to fight the Klingon. Paramount cut it disingenuously to make it seem like he lands flat footed and swinging that peice of debris.

Either way, I’m gonna go with the theory that whatever Cumberbatch is offering the parents is genetic engineering, something that’s otherwise outlawed. And as such, there’s every reason to believe that Cumberbatch is enhanced himself, but I’m not gonna go so far as to accept he’s an augment.

573. dontcare - December 9, 2012

How about Cumby is Aric Soong’s son. Has anyone considered that? There is a certain resemblance between Cumberbatch and Spiner, at least to my eye, and it would explain his interaction with Noel Clarke’s character, and tie into an Augment story quite well, if that is what they are doing.

I personally of course don’t care who Cumberbatch is playing, cause I will be there opening day no matter what, so I have accepted that what comes will come, and I have found a kind of calm settling over me, allowing me to be more philosophical about it, but I am only human.

574. saavik001 - December 10, 2012

The villians name is Nigel Noonien Bashir… you heard it here first…

575. Adirmal_Bumblebee - December 10, 2012

He is a guy from the future, maybe a TNG-character. This would also explain why there is a ship in the movie with Enterprise-E-like nacelles ;)

576. LogicalLeopard - December 10, 2012

567 Curious Cadet

Now that’s a good face change reason. Explosion, or something caused by Klingons unfamiliar with ancient earth sleeper tech.

569 Mark:

I understand WHY Kirk said he stranded them, taming new worlds and the like, but it couldn’t possibly be his decision to make. If Khan is a benevolent dictator and/or can’t be prosecuted, you certainly can’t maroon him without a shop to leave when he chose. If he’s a criminal, you can’t try him. Maybe you can shoot him as a pirate, but maroon him? It’s also a bad decision because any unsuspecting fed or alien ship could pick him up and not know the danger. We know that Bashirs dad went to prison, Paris went to a rehab camp, Garth went to Elba 2, there had to be other legal options.

But if Khan’s treatment is iffy, you simply can’t explain McGivers. McGivers is a Starfleet officer, and should have been Court Martialed. She doesn’t get the choice of being with her boyfriend after trying to help take over the ship. The fact that she died on the new world when she could have gotten time in a rehab camp, or 10-20 makes Kirks decision even more wrong.

Oh, and plus Spock gets held accountable for not detecting instability in the planet next door. I don’t know how a planet blows itself up, but the process has to take longer than 30-40 years.

But, the point I’m trying to make is even with such a huge plothole, we all loved Space Seed and Wrath of Khan because it was a compelling story with good acting, well worthy of suspending a little disbelief.

577. LogicalLeopard - December 10, 2012

Oh, and before anyone mentions ST2009 and Kirk being marooned, Spock actually had a decent defense. He left a Starfleet cadet, with temporary rank, who tried to fight security guards on the bridge, at the nearest Starfleet outpost. The planet was dangerous, but safe for Kirk if he would have stayed in the pod, or maybe called the outpost and got beamed away.

578. Sebastian S. - December 10, 2012

# 566

MJT~

Agreed.
Cumberbatch is playing a Starfleet developed augment (probably developed by Peter Weller’s mystery CEO) who infiltrates Starfleet, befriends the crew and then is banished (in keeping with the starfleet regs that don’t allow augments in Starfleet ; DS9 “Dr. Bashir, I Presume…”). He is angry at his loss of his position and his exile from the human race and seeks revenge. It fits and it allows Khan to be in the movie (he may be seen in a flashback or on a monitor screen), and Cumberbatch to play a new villain…. voila! Problem solved. ;-D

579. SoonerDave - December 10, 2012

Waaaay too much overthinking going on about this villain business.

Once the movie comes out, I think we’re all going to look back at this speculation and shake our collective heads, asking ourselves “how did we come up with THAT idea…” when the reality is going to be much, much simpler.

Keep in mind, this is a character that only has a few minutes of screen time in which a credible backstory can be constructed to make him legitimate or viable. All this convoluted business about one- or two-off characters from lesser-known episodes (particularly 3rd season eps) is just way too much extrapolation in my book.

580. Aurore - December 10, 2012

480.dmduncan – December 9, 2012
466. Aurore – December 9, 2012

“Thank you so much…”
_____

You are welcome!

581. John S. - December 10, 2012

It took me all night to read this entire thread. Every single one of you are champions. Thanks for keeping Star Trek alive, exciting and relevant. I was truly amazed by most of the posts here. You folks know your ST history! It is great to know that there are such intelligent minds out there who truly appreciate this phenomenon that has enriched so many lives. You guys rock!

582. gingerly - December 10, 2012

@555

Given the possible atmospheric extremes in real-life space, PERIOD and that’s not accounting for the things out there, that we *still* don’t know about, I would honestly expect the ship to be water-proof, to the point of being submersible.

I mean, we already know about methane-heavy atmospheres and heck, just look at Jupiter’s red-eye storm! This is just in our galaxy!

And then there are things we do know about, supposedly one of the biggest hindrances to real-life long distance space travel are tiny asteroids propelled like frigging bullets and missiles into the hull.

Given all that, and all the possible heavy liquid atmospheres out there, I’d say, expecting the ship to be waterproof would be the least of the design contingencies.

583. Red Shirt Chekov - December 10, 2012

If Pavel bites the dust (as a red shirt) will he have a twin brother to replace him?

Ignoring the canon (with Day of the Dove, e.g. his hallucinating that he had a dead brother) due to the new timeline…

584. I am not Herbert - December 10, 2012

gingerly:

a frog’s butt-hole is water-tight… doesn’t mean it can hover… =(

585. PinoMills - December 10, 2012

…just a little of what I know, that is all. Hope that helps.

586. gingerly - December 10, 2012

@584

Well articulated. ;) Space ships and frogs’ buttholes are exactly the same!

587. dmduncan - December 10, 2012

572: “Absolutely agree actor is on a wire, but I disagree it necessarily means the guy has augment capabilities. He turns, he runs, he leaps straight out and lands.”

Well yeah, but he does it in a way that no human could do which is why it’s a special effect. If this was a kung fu movie I would tend to agree that it woudn’t mean anything, but it’s Star Trek, and given that I think he is what he is being made to look like: a person either of superhuman strength or ability.

588. Nik - December 11, 2012

I hope he is a completely new villain.

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