Watch: Video Shows Star Trek Into Darkness Post Production & Reveals Some New Glimpses | TrekMovie.com
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Watch: Video Shows Star Trek Into Darkness Post Production & Reveals Some New Glimpses January 8, 2013

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Trek Franchise , trackback

JJ Abrams Bad Robot production company has a state of the art facility in Santa Monica where they are currently doing post production on Star Trek Into Darkness. In December the editing technology company Avid conducted a video ‘webinar’ from Bad Robot featuring many of the people working on the film. See below for the very interesting behind the scenes video, and check out a few glimpses of the movie that could be seen in the background

 

Watch: Avid visits Bad Robot

Bad Robot uses some of the latest high tech audio and visual tools made by Avid and so it was the perfect spot for a ‘webinar’ to showcase some of the cool stuff. Below is a link to the 21-minute behind the scenes video from Bad Robot which features many of the people who work on the film, including the editors Mary Jo Markey and Maryann Brandon. If you are interested in filmmaking it is worth watching and even if you aren’t it is interesting to see how post-production is being done.


CLICK TO WATCH BAD ROBOT WEBINAR AT AVID.com

During the video you will see a lot of Star Trek imagery and video playing on the monitors and screens around Bad Robot. Mostly it is from the 2009 Star Trek movie or the Into Darkness trailers released in December. However there were three very short (but interesting) glimpses of new footage. Unfortunately two of the shots were obscured by someone walking in front of the camera, but here they are…

NEW STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS IMAGES

Another cryo tube shot

The most interesting shot (albeit obscured) is of a room with what appears to be cryo-tubes.


From Avid Bad Robot Webinar

This seems to be the same room (and walking figure) seen in the teaser trailer (below). 


From Teaser Trailer

Shuttle pilot

New shot of someone (possibly Scotty?) in what appears to be a shuttle.


From Avid Bad Robot Webinar

Captain Kirk

New shot of Kirk and it appears he doesn’t have the same marks on his face (which he presumably gets during the fight scene on Qo’noS)


From Avid Bad Robot Webinar

Kirk is at an unknown location, possibly the same as one of the locations where Scotty can be seen from the teaser trailer or recently released images.


From Teaser Trailer


From Empire Magazine

Thanks to Tony for the link tip

 

Comments

1. James Cannon - Runcorn Trekkie UK - January 8, 2013

So many secrets to be revealed! Don’t disappoint me Abrams…

2. Harry Ballz - January 8, 2013

Looks good!

3. I know nothing!!!! - January 8, 2013

Nice!!!

Cryo tube photo, The Guy walking could be Kahn

4. The Last Vulcan - January 8, 2013

Gotta admit, the guy walking towards the back of the cryotube bay sure looks Khanian to me. Definitely not Cumby OR Weller. Maybe the silly rumors of a CGI Montalban Khan might not be too far off!

5. Robman007 - January 8, 2013

Those cryo-tubes have very interesting circular patterns on the top near the glass portion. They do not look mechanical, as it’s a large circle with a smaller one below and to the side (with a small diagonal line attaching the two)

6. Commander/Captain/Ambassador Spock - January 8, 2013

What if those tubes are actually coffins akin to the torpedo burial?

That could make them like a Vulcan mass funeral thing or a funeral after the terrorist attack evidenced by the teaser poster.

7. beyerku - January 8, 2013

I think I saw Kirk on top of Harrison, and also a shot of a bridge that was certainly not the Enterprise. Anyone else?

8. Lightbulb - January 8, 2013

Well, they weren’t kidding with the ‘Darkness’ part in the title, were they? Turn on the light, JJ!

9. Tony Whitehead - January 8, 2013

My pleasure, Anthony. Was a very interesting behind the scenes video of some very talented individuals.

10. captain spock - January 8, 2013

if you click on pitcures 1,3,4, it will show that a person on the left is looking at the screen….. in a bad robot screening room & she/he could be watching a screening of star trek:intodarkness.

11. NCC-73515 - January 8, 2013

Is that part of the script?
Kirk: “We’ve got to get the power back on!”

12. NCC-73515 - January 8, 2013

SPOILERS maybe…

On the same page, seatbelts are mentioned.
On another screen, the terms ‘warp core’ and ‘April — gun’ can be read. The gatling gun that was mentioned in another report some weeks ago?

13. Ryan - January 8, 2013

I just noticed that the place Scotty is in looks like its turned on its side or something. That would explain why he’s holding on from falling sideways. Look at the platform and stairs in the background.

14. The Last Vulcan - January 8, 2013

April Gun does not refer to a month in spring. It’s Robert April 100% fer sho’! And I’ll betcha he comes in from TOS/TNG timeline in the ship that crashes into SF Bay. In fact, I continue to believe that it’s the 80 year old April who gets the reverse aging secret sauce from Khan and takes over Harrison’s identity. We’ll see if I’m right or wrong! :)

15. John Whorfin - January 8, 2013

6. For the love of Cthulhu, are there still people who actually think those are coffins with frost-covered face-aligned windows? Seriously? Highly illogical.

I do have a feeling Weller might be April.

16. Alex Prewitt - January 8, 2013

The duty uniforms bug me. The undershirt never looks right on Pine. Makes the faux “collar” look huge.

17. BulletInTheFace - January 8, 2013

#14: “I continue to believe that it’s the 80 year old April who gets the reverse aging secret sauce from Khan”

That’s just silly. Khan has never been shown to have any reverse-aging secret. If he did, he wouldn’t have aged.

18. Curious Cadet - January 8, 2013

@16 Alex Prewitt,

I don’t hate these uniforms, but every time I see them, they just look baggy and anything but military. They kind of look like weekend wear in the suburbs — oversized sweatshirts over an undershirt, with loose fit Dockers.

It’s funny, they are the opposite of what Gene Roddenberry wanted with the tight form-fitting designs of the originals, the ultimate embodiment of which were the spandex used in TNG’s first couple of seasons. I imagine if he were around still running the show, these would have been made by Under Armour.

19. Gary S. - January 8, 2013

Could somebody do a blowup of this “Khanian” figure?
Right now, I am just not seeing it .

20. The Unknown Poster - January 8, 2013

My take is that Cryo tube scene is very near the end.

The figure walking away is a CGI (or stand in) Khan. Darkness sets up the third movie which is Khan.

21. Gary S. - January 8, 2013

I highly doubt that the third film will be called Star Trek:Khan

22. D.J. Ammons - January 8, 2013

Very cool Webinar. Thanks for sharing the link. I enjoyed learning about the workflow at Bad Robot and getting to learn more about the creative team and dynamic there.

23. Yea No Khan - January 8, 2013

This movie seems like its just a big set up for Khan in their trilogy. Heck they could end up killing whom ever they want because there will be another reboot after this trilogy. : (

24. Yea No Khan - January 8, 2013

@16, Its not a military order! Roddenberry must be rolling now that people are now call Star Fleet a Military Order. Things have sure drifted from Roddenberry’s vision.

25. Dennis Bailey - January 8, 2013

Starfleet was military in TOS.

Khan.

26. Gary S. - January 8, 2013

TWOK moved into a much more Naval/Miltary visionparticularly in the design of the costumes and Roddenberry was still alive and involved .

27. Shilliam Watner (Click for Trek Ships Poster) - January 8, 2013

If the villain IS Khan, I think we can safely say they sure as hell aren’t doing a rehash of Space Seed and certainly not Wrath of Khan. So it really shouldn’t matter if the villain IS Khan, because they’re obviously doing something very different with him.

28. BulletInTheFace - January 8, 2013

#24: Starfleet has always been military, even under Roddenberry. They fought wars, followed military decorum and ranks, held court-martials, carried weapons, stood at attention and did everything else the military does. They were always military. It’s naive to say otherwise.

29. BulletInTheFace - January 8, 2013

#27: It’s NOT Khan. That much is clear.

30. Garys S - January 8, 2013

I see a lot of hope for Khan, but no actual proof.

31. Exverlobter - January 8, 2013

God, this military/non-military discussion is already 30 years old and it never stops. It all started with The Wrath of Khan . And TWOK, which is btw all your favourite film , finally consolidated that Starfleet is clearly a military organisation.

Nuff said.

32. Dunsel Report - January 8, 2013

“I’m a soldier, not a diplomat.” — James T. Kirk

33. Shilliam Watner (Click for Trek Ships Poster) - January 8, 2013

29. BulletInTheFace – Nothing’s clear until the movie premiers, but my point is that it doesn’t matter if it’s Khan. Not at this point. They have him doing completely different things than he has before. His name is incidental. The original furor over Khan was that they would be “rehashing” Space Seed, or, more impossibly, TWOK. They obviously aren’t doing either, so he may as well be Dr. Who. It just doesn’t matter, except that some people have a strong need to say “I told you so.”

34. Lostrod - January 8, 2013

I liked the shot of Robby the Robot, Lost in Space Robot and Mecha Godzilla together on a shelf.

Regards.

35. Jimi - January 8, 2013

With what we’ve seen and heard about the movie plot so far – how realistic is it that Harrison is Khan related? We’ve been told he is/was a member of Starfleet – obviously Khan wasn’t. Also we’re told this movie is aimed at the mass audience who (believe it or not) has no idea who Khan is. That would be a lot of back story needed to bring everyone up to speed then propel the story forward with what we know is going to happen.
How disappointed are you going to be if John Harrison is just John Harrison – like Nero, a new character?

36. Red Dead Ryan - January 8, 2013

#35.

They have been keeping as many details about Benedict Cumberbatch’s villain a secret for so long, and Peter Weller’s character is unknown at this time. Those two facts suggest that there is more to BC’s character than just the name “John Harrison”.

If BC’s character is no more than just John Harrison, and Peter Weller is merely playing “some guy”, then the secrecy will end up being more hype than substance.

Not to say that either the movie or the villain will suck, just that there’s a method to the supreme court’s madness.

37. Red Dead Ryan - January 8, 2013

Peter Weller’s character must have some importance to the main villain, otherwise, we’d know something about his character.

He’s playing either a C.O, or a C.E.O. Other than that, nada, nothin’, zilch, zippo, zero.

38. The Last Vulcan - January 8, 2013

@17. BulletInTheFace – Alternate universe remember? All bets are off in JJ land.

39. Picard's Slappy Patty - January 8, 2013

The guy on the right in the cryotubes pic looks most certainly like Cumberbatch from behind. The other guy has a ponytail and looks like Khan from Space Seed. I am betting Weller is Khan and gets killed off, unleashing the revenge of his fellow comrade, Cumberbatch.

40. Shilliam Watner (Click for Trek Ships Poster) - January 8, 2013

39. Picard’s Slappy Patty – It just doesn’t seem worthwhile to me to have Khan as a bit player in the story when he’s been THE villain of an episode and a movie. I have a hard time seeing the use in it, but I’m not saying they won’t do it. I just think it would be poor writing. It would be better to never have him come out of cryo, if you ask me.

If you’re going to have Khan, you go balls-out with him or not at all.

As usual, however, I’m willing to be proven wrong, as long as they make a fabulous film.

41. Capes - January 8, 2013

Kirk looks emotional in the new shot. Could it be:

A) Because of Carol Marcus?
B) His lack of humility leading to deaths in his crew?
C) None of the above?

Also…the cryo tubes could be coffins….

42. Gary S. - January 8, 2013

D) an emotianal scene that led to an emotional reaction.

43. L4YERCAKE - January 8, 2013

What if the shot with the cryotubes is a flashback to Khan launching his people into space (darkness?) and he’s the guy with the ponytail on the left (Starfleet gives him the standard issue when he’s taken aboard, perhaps while he’s still asleep?)?

The person on the right looks bald to me, and nobody’s seemed to speculate yet who the character played by Joseph Gatt, GATT2000, is. Maybe he’s an artificial intelligence that is the caretaker of the Botany Bay while everyone else is in suspended animation?

I mean, why would he have 2000 in his name other than maybe he’s an artifact from our century?

44. Picard's Slappy Patty - January 9, 2013

@Shilliam Watner – Zoom in close on the cryogenics tube picture from the trailer, on your iPad. It is clear as day that the guy on the right is Cumberbatch. The guy on the left, definitely has a ponytail, and has the air of Khan (Space Seed) time. He could be a Klingon, but I am betting he is Khan. Harrison wants revenge for the death or perhaps incarceration of Khan (Released in Part III)????

45. NCC-73515 - January 9, 2013

Weller is probably April. We now have two Bad Robot sources mentioning the character in the movie

46. Aix - January 9, 2013

Such great teases, this team! Keep it up!

47. The Last Vulcan - January 9, 2013

I think we have to look at what JJ and co. have freely admitted over and over again. Harrison believes that what he is doing is RIGHT and that conviction is so powerful that it leads the 1701 crew to be on the edge of believing it as well. IF that is Khan and Harrison in the trailer tube pic (and yes, upon magnification, it’s very possible) then Khan brought something from his time (or universe) which shows the JJ Federation to be evil. There is also reverse aging secret sauce in the mix somewhere as the big gun used by Harrison belongs to April which 99.9% for sho’ means they’re one and the same. Yeah, I know that it doesn’t seem like a solid plot but that’s because we don’t know the details yet. It will be fleshed out as more info seeps out.

48. Tony - January 9, 2013

Wait, I thought ILM did the special effects of Star Trek 09? Yet we saw some shots (like the one from ST09 where the shuutles left earth for the ship) where they where unfinished.

49. Aix - January 9, 2013

Am I the only one who thought the guy in the red shirt is Hugo from Lost? I was like, ’’they do private screenings for the Lost cast?’’

Also, it just dawned on me how seriously rich JJ is. Haha!

50. Mark Lynch - January 9, 2013

I’m glad we don’t know that much about what’s going on. It will make the first viewing that much more interesting…

51. Spock's Pillow - January 9, 2013

OH. MY. GOD. PLEASE. LET IT NOT BE KHAN, NOW OR EVER.

I khan’t stand it.

Please if we have to have a “villain” let him/her be complicated [moreso than Nero]. Sounds like “John Harrison” is at least complicated enough to be charismatic anyway.

Why, *why* does every adventure movie have to out-Marvel Marvel?

Do they all have to have dastardly villains and a Threat to Earth? I know, I know, summer “tentpole” movie [which always tempts me to make a joke about boys and toys].

52. Alf - January 9, 2013

Does this image prove Khan is in the new movie??

http://i.imgur.com/jtljl.jpg

53. JM - January 9, 2013

@52

Could be a Fake.

54. Moputo Jones - January 9, 2013

April, Khan and Cumberbatch’s Harrison. Fascinating.

55. LogicalLeopard - January 9, 2013

52

*LOLOLOL* You and the person that made that are RUTHLESS for posting that and adding fuel to the fire!

56. Trek in a Cafe - January 9, 2013

Maybe Harrison is a history nut, kind of like the starfleet officer who fell in love with Khan and decided to stay with him. Take it from there.

57. drumvan - January 9, 2013

enjoyed watching that video. not so much for the “spoilers” but for the cutting edge technology they are using to streamline the production process. as an architect and musician (with a protools studio) it gave me some good brain & eye candy.

58. LogicalLeopard - January 9, 2013

56. Trek in a Cafe – January 9, 2013
Maybe Harrison is a history nut, kind of like the starfleet officer who fell in love with Khan and decided to stay with him. Take it from there.

*************************

I kind of like that theory. Sort of a Marla McGivers man-crush kind of thing. He admires Khan and his cause, and believes that genetic engineering would unlock Human potential. Maybe he was born with a fatal or debilitating disease, and genetic engineering cured him. So not only does he believe this, but he personally benefited from it, and knows what it’s like to live at less than your ability, or on a shorter timeline when you don’t have to. I like that. That makes a lot of sense when it comes to the empathy we’re supposed to feel for him.

59. Spock's Dirty Pants - January 9, 2013

When the Genesis machine exploded in TWOK, it threw Khan through a space-time anomaly, and in the process regenerated him. He calls upon the Klingons to locate the Botany Bay….

60. travis - January 9, 2013

@52 ALF: I believe we have a winner sir! Its the BOTANY BAY :)

61. Dr. Image - January 9, 2013

Harrison is one of Khan’s guys. They find Khan dead.
My theory. Alt universe, remember?

62. travis - January 9, 2013

You people still love to go round in circles! Why cant you people accept the fact that JJ Abrams and company want Khan as their villain? I’ll tell you why in 2 plots that i have discovered because im tired of this bullshit!

1st plot: Could the name ” John Harrision ” just simply be a alias? Could be possible! In fact there is evidence from TOS that indeed a crew member named John Harrision was present during the discovery of Khan in TOS Space Seed! Oh and by the way Khan did indeed wear a starfleet uniform in Space Speed called a Red Shirt dummies so this plot will make sense that Harrision is Khan! And if this plot holds to be true then Peter Weller could play his old character again… PAXTON!

2nd plot: this one could be the true plot! Many fans including me believes John Harrision is indeed who he says he is! Infact John Harrision was present during the Eugenics Wars and faught side by side with his leader ( Hint, Hint ) but heeres the catch… Harrision didnt go onto the Botany Bay and was Cryo-Frozen somewhere else… maybe a secret location on Earth! Someone discovers Harrision, un freeze’s him and Harrision is on a mission to find the Botany Bay, wake up his leader ( Peter Weller ) KHAN and try to restart the Eugenics Wars!

Either way the Klingons have something to do with all of this and very interested to find out! Captain Robert April is a NO GO because he was never to be a villain… DUH! As Gary Mitchell goes why would you want Mitchell? think about it… you put Mitchell in as the villain then its going to be NO FUN because he will have unlimited power with no chance that our heros will win! Plus Gary Mitchell never uses a Phaser pistol… and that to me will be a boring character! He got to be in the comics and thats all he deserved! Also another hint… Alice Eve playing as Dr. Carol Marcus to me indicates that she might have some backround in Human Genetic Enginerring!!!!

We shall see May 17. 2013…..

63. Alf - January 9, 2013

My theory: Old Spock has warned the Federation about The Botany Bay. The Federation retrieve the ship and bring the cryonic tubes back to Earth, where it is decided for safety sake that the contents will be terminated. Harrison is an augment (or son of augments, or grandson of augments) that has remained incognito within the Federation. When he finds out what’s going to happen to his newly-found kinfolk he goes berserk in order to free them.

64. DeShonn Steinblatt - January 9, 2013

I would imagine the villain is Khan and not Khan’s butler. I can’t see them doing a whole movie that is just build-up to the Khan movie.

65. Michael - January 9, 2013

Cryotubes

66. BulletInTheFace - January 9, 2013

#62: No.

#64: No.

67. LogicalLeopard - January 9, 2013

62. travis – January 9, 2013

1st plot: Could the name ” John Harrision ” just simply be a alias? Could be possible! In fact there is evidence from TOS that indeed a crew member named John Harrision was present during the discovery of Khan in TOS Space Seed! Oh and by the way Khan did indeed wear a starfleet uniform in Space Speed called a Red Shirt dummies so this plot will make sense that Harrision is Khan! And if this plot holds to be true then Peter Weller could play his old character again… PAXTON!

****************************************

The character wasn’t “John Harrison” it was “Harrison.” And Harrison was meant to be an Inuit, played by a Hawaiian actor. So I don’t think this is the same character. I’ve previously thought that John Harrison was Khan, with plastic surgery and an identity change to better facilitate his plans, but I don’t believe that anymore. I think Harrison is Harrison, and he’s more of an acolyte of Khan, probably not even an augment, but a human who believes in genetic engineering. I don’t think that Khan is going to play as significant a role in this movie as some believe, because I think ultimately filmmakers don’t want to just remake things, they want to do their own spin on the story. Take all of the scary ideas from Khan, but do it with an original villian.

As far as Paxton, I severely doubt it. It makes no sense to ressurect a villian from the last season of a cancelled series.

*****************************

2nd plot: this one could be the true plot! Many fans including me believes John Harrision is indeed who he says he is! Infact John Harrision was present during the Eugenics Wars and faught side by side with his leader ( Hint, Hint ) but heeres the catch… Harrision didnt go onto the Botany Bay and was Cryo-Frozen somewhere else… maybe a secret location on Earth! Someone discovers Harrision, un freeze’s him and Harrision is on a mission to find the Botany Bay, wake up his leader ( Peter Weller ) KHAN and try to restart the Eugenics Wars!

***************************

Good theory. I’m sure there wasn’t just ONE Botany Bay.

68. Sub Trek - January 9, 2013

@52

that picture is definitely faked. It is also highly unlikely that these tubes are onboard a spaceship

http://scifanatic.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/stid-t2-18.jpg

Notice the stonewall behind the exit.

69. Driver - January 9, 2013

With all the editing marvels in AVID and Bad Robot people on the cut, there should be zero continuity errors. But, as all-ways, inevitably, you know there will be. But it should be great fun anyway. looking forward to May.

70. Basement Blogger - January 9, 2013

Excellent work Anthony. The video is kind of technical but was an interesting look at modern filmmaking. It should be a reminder that film is a collaborative process. I wonder if J.J. will ever mess with 48 fps video. Film does have a warmer quality but after seeing The Hobbit 48 fps, I’m convinced that the wave of the future is that format. And in my opinion, the picture doesn’t suffer. The 3D effects work much better and you can stil have some warmth to the picture.l

71. Sean4000 - January 9, 2013

In December I scheduled to see this webinar but I got the plague and was not able to attend. Sucks having 103 degree fever.

Yes, #48, ILM did do the visuals for ST ’09. As is very common in the industry, there is constant contact between facilities. It is entirely probable that they shared ideas and viewed work being done between ILM and BR.

Le Sigh,….
It makes me miss my days as a CTO in Hollywood South. I would give anything to be back in the IT filed of that industry. Since then I’ve moved on to offensive cyber security and network analysis. But I do keep up to date on all apps and systems in Hollywood so I would imagine that getting back in would be pretty painless.

LOL, Mr Abrams, May I send you my resume? :)

72. Curious Cadet - January 9, 2013

@67 LogicalLeopard,
” Take all of the scary ideas from Khan, but do it with an original villian.”
—————————-
What exactly are all of those scary ideas? In Space Seed, Khan wasn’t particularly scary. They even praised him for his peaceful reign over 1/4 of the Earth’s population. He was ruthless in his tactics, but really, what did Khan want? To rule peacefully? In TWOK he wasn’t particularly scary either. He was out for revenge on Kirk. He was irrational. We’ve already had that with Nero. Don’t get how this idea is particularly unique to Khan.

***************************

“As far as Paxton, I severely doubt it. It makes no sense to ressurect a villian from the last season of a cancelled series.”
——————————-
So were just ignoring that Bob Orci specifically said Weller was a newly created character, and NOT from canon? Or perhaps we all still believe he is a liar? Of course he’s not playing Paxton!

***************************

“I’m sure there wasn’t just ONE Botany Bay.”
——————————-
Not likely. I postulated this theory early on. TOS is very clear about this. At the end of the Eugenics wars there were only 80 or 90 supermen unaccounted for. The Botany Bay accounts for 86 of them, including Khan. That leaves approximately 4 unaccounted for, assuming the Botany Bay wasnt meant to account for that entire number. So it’s technically possible to account for at least Harrison. The fact that Enterprise revisited the Augments story certainly opens a number of possibilities, despite being told that the Federation ordered all those embryos destroyed — Orci’s fascination with this shadow organization within Starfleet certainly ties in with Section 31 and the potential to not only salvage some of the technology, but also running a secret augment program of their own.

The biggest problem I have with Harrison being some 20th century augment is that he’s described as just some normal guy working within Starfleet. I don’t believe a guy approximately Kirk’s age without any documentation could ever infiltrate Starfleet following the Federation’s 9/11 in the 23rd century. If that’s who Harrison turns out to be, then he would have to be set up by this shadow organization, and I just can’t imagine any augment co-operating in this way, even if the Federation is holding the Botany Bay hostage, nor why the shadow organization would even want to “hide” him in plain site like that. It’s a huge risk for them if he slips up in any way and he’s discovered. I mean one routine medical scan would betray him instantly.

73. Phil - January 9, 2013

Enough with old Spock warning the Federation of potential pending pitfalls. Even if old Spock did this, why would they retrieve the ship anyway when all they need to do is phaser blast it to bits?

74. Fascinoma - January 9, 2013

The stone wall in that scene implies that they’re in an underground vault or something, not on a ship.

75. Stargazer54 - January 9, 2013

Thanks for the peek inside Bad Robot, Anthony. Although, it was a commercial for Avid it was revealing in how production workflow has changed dramatically. (Yes I sat through the webinar at the end.)

Those in the biz may have noticed the proprietary issues about Avid not not playing well with third party apps. But it sounds like their 10GB fabric can handle the bandwidth between storage and edit stations. Would have been interested to hear how BR sends files back and forth to ILM.

76. Curious Cadet - January 9, 2013

@72 Phil,
“Enough with old Spock warning the Federation of potential pending pitfalls. Even if old Spock did this, why would they retrieve the ship anyway when all they need to do is phaser blast it to bits?”
————————————
For the same reason they didn’t do this in Aliens.

Orci is a conspiracy theorist. The IDW comics have already pointed to a covert shadow organization running secret experiments, among other things. An organization which would jump at the chance to experiment with Khan and his followers.

The fact is, Spock Prime is a HUGE liability to the Federation, and quite likely their best kept secret. If it ever got out widely that Nero was a renegade from the future and that the Federation had in their possession another future visitor in Spock Prime, there would be a general galaxy-wide manhunt to kidnap Spock Prime and try to extract that information. Moreover, they might try to kidnap Alt Spock to force Prime Spock to come forward. They might even try to kidnap Kirk if it were learned he had mind-melded with Prime Spock.

Given Orci’s decidedly conspiritorial way of thinking, it would be foolish to assume Prime Spock would just be ignored and allowed to slink off to some corner of the galaxy to live out the rest of his natural life. It’s hard to imagine Starfleet actually torturing Spock Prime to get the information he has, but considering the reactionary climate Orci has established within Stafleet post Nero, it would not be beyond the realm of possibility for this shadow division to keep Spock Prime under lock and key and do whatever they wanted with him — at a minimum they are keeping very close a watch on him.

Be that as it may, I personally believe that given what we have learned about Spock Prime’s mental abilities over the years, I seriously doubt any significant information could be involuntarily extracted from him, even by another formidable Vulcan choosing to cooperate with Starfleet. So you do have a point — either way, they are not likely to ever get any information out of Prime Spock — after all Spock Prime is smart enough to know any information he might give could be used innapropropriately as well, and despite this not being his universe would be a moral quandary for him — he’s already responsible for enough damage in this reality. Doing NOTHNG is the safest course of action and he knows this.

77. travis - January 9, 2013

@ 68 SUB TREK: I think you forgot that the Botany Bay is INDEED a vessel! Also you need to realize that onboard the Botany Bay you do indeed HAVE Cryo-tubes! TOS episode Space Speed tried to show us that but with 1966 technology but now with 2012 technology its still the same… CRYO-TUBES!!!!!

78. Joey B. - January 9, 2013

Xon Harrison. It’s all I’m saying.

79. Kev. - January 9, 2013

There is NO KHAN. Get over it!

80. CoffeeProf - January 9, 2013

18

Have you seen BDUs or ACUs?

81. Peter Loader - January 9, 2013

Harrison is a former starship Captain with a grudge.

82. Gappy - January 9, 2013

In regards to the Gatt2000 character there is a character with the same name in David Mack’s cold equations trilogy which is all about dr soong and his cybernetic androids……could it possibly be the same character

83. aligee in Scotland - January 9, 2013

Fantastic documentary – Really interesting for me as a filmmaker and photographer

84. Gary S. - January 9, 2013

81.Or a a captain presumed long dead now deaged or in an android body .

85. NuFan - January 9, 2013

Or Khan

86. lostrod - January 9, 2013

#80 – CoffeeProf

“18

Have you seen BDUs or ACUs?”

Yep, I’ve worn BDUs and ACUs over the last 26 years in the military. I’ve also worn DCU (Desert Combat Uniform) during first tour in Iraq. By second tour I was wearing ACU’s.

Both DCU’s and ACU’s are loose fitting uniforms (I think more-so than BDUs) for comfort purposes. Both uniforms are not supposed to be starched for comfort sake (as well as to preserve some of the security aspects (starch can destroy the infrared recognition feature).

Overall, both uniforms were designed for comfort rather than appearance. Lots of pockets to carry stuff any. Major problem with ACU’s is they switched from zippers and buttons to velcro fasteners for rank and pockets. Very noisy and the velcro doesn’t last very well on the heavily used pockets.

Regards.

87. Gary S. - January 9, 2013

85.possibly.
But ,I need more than a very unclear photo of an unknown figure walking away to convince me of that

88. Disinvited - January 9, 2013

#76. Curious Cadet – January 9, 2013

If doing nothing was the safest action then why wouldn’t that same logic have played out on Delta Vega in the 2009 effort? But it didn’t, Spock Prime felt that he knew what was best for Starfleet and Kirk, and interfered. Once he’s started down that path, there’s no turning back. Blame it on his mind-meld with V’ger, his resurrection, or is discourse with the Guardian at the Edge of Forever, but logically Spock Prime must continue act to correct that which he believes is “wrong” in the alt universe – and by the way helping the Vulcans as he said he would do to alt Spock is in no way safely doing “nothing”.

89. Craiger - January 9, 2013

What if Weller is Kirk’s replacement while Kirk goes rouge after Harrison? Then Kirk get the Captain’s chair back at the end of the movie.

90. Killamarshtrek - January 9, 2013

@12

On another screen, the terms ‘warp core’ and ‘April — gun’ can be read. The gatling gun that was mentioned in another report some weeks ago?

I can’t find this screen, what’s the time reading when this is on?

91. Phil - January 9, 2013

@88. No, the only thing Spock would be feeling compelled to ‘fix’ would be the immediate issues surrounding the presence of Nero. He knows Nero has been in the alternate universe for 25 years, so this alternate universe will unfold differently, regardless of his efforts. He knows this universe is diffferent, not wrong, so he would be inclined to stap aside and let events unfold as they may. As an aside, if old Spock in this universe is hell bent on fixing things, the first thing he would probably do is grab a shuttle and head off to the Guardian of Forever. From there, it’s easy to fix everything.

92. James McFadden - January 9, 2013

I think that a new 4-Season Star Trek animated series called Star Trek Final Frontier OR Star Trek Columbia should be made. It should involve starship crews from the 24th, 25th and 26th centuries AND include characters such as Agent Daniels, Captain Nero, Captain Chakotay (later Commodore Chakotay), Commander Annika Hensen, Fleet Admiral Kathryn Janeway, Ambassador Jean-Luc Picard, Rear Admiral William T. Riker, Captain Tuvok, General Worf, Ambassador Neelix, Captain Tom Paris, Commander Harry Kim, Captain Morgan Bateson, Fleet Admiral Elizabeth Shelby, Captain Alexander Chase, Commander Barric Holden etc. The theme of this show should be preventing the creation of the Alternate Reality seen in Star Trek 11 and a second Romulan War that would change the Milky Way Galaxy forever.
There can be 2 Starfleets in this show: Starfleet Command and the Federation Defense Directorate. Starfleet Command handles the UFP’s exploratory and diplomatic affairs while it’s sister organisation, the F.D.D., handles the UFP’s military affairs. More new and current explorers, destroyers, and multi-mission vessels (including ships of newer designs) could be shown in this new Star Trek CGI. Newer ship classes and weapons systems mentioned in some novels could be illustrated as CGIs in action (USS Enterprise NCC-1701-J, USS Enterprise NAR-02870, Tactical Support Flyers, Dragonfly, Imperial Mining Ship Narada, USS Atlas, USS Aventine, nadion pulse cannons, Mark-12 Phaser Cannons, Transphasic Torpedoes, double phaser strips, transphasic shields, phased cloaking, omega particles, The Vault (Romulan), Red Matter etc).
This development could also see 2 more titles such as Dogs Of War and Romulan being added to the Star Trek Fan Collective series. As a matter of fact if Star Trek Into Darkness and Star Trek 13 prove to be a huge success, then CBS Paramount would be able to come up with ideas and plans for 7 more Star Trek films. I’m dying to see Star Trek Into Darkness.

93. Phil - January 9, 2013

@89. If Kirk abandons his post to go Harrison hunting, what command structure in their collective right might would reward dereliction of duty with restoring his rank and command, as opposed to jail time?

94. Disinvited - January 9, 2013

#91. Phil

And yet still, after 25 years of Nero mucking it up as you yourself point out, he didn’t shrug his shoulders and say “Well, 25 years is just too long to start imediately fixing all of Nero’s damage.” Nope, he jumped right in trying to fix things by putting Kirk in command of starship long before he, Spock Prime, could possibly “know”alt Kirk was ready.

95. FarStrider - January 9, 2013

@89. If Kirk abandons his post to go Harrison hunting, what command structure in their collective right might would reward dereliction of duty with restoring his rank and command, as opposed to jail time?
________________________

Hopefully my snark meter is broken because @93 . . .You HAVE actually watched the original Star Trek movies, right??????? You know, the ones where Kirk not only sabotaged the Excelsior in order to steal the Enterprise so he could go on an unauthorized trip to a quarantined planet to rescue his DEAD best friend, BLEW UP the Enterprise while on said trip, probably caused an interplanetary incident between Vulcan and the Federation by applying for asylum there. . . etc. etc.and so on. . . and yet, how much jail time did he serve again?

~FS

96. NCC-73515 - January 9, 2013

seatbelts around 0403 and 1733
April giant gun at 0151

97. Curious Cadet - January 9, 2013

@95 farstrider,

Oh they punished him BAD … They busted him all the way down to CAPTAIN!!

98. Gary S. - January 9, 2013

89. That is the best theory for Wellers character I have heard yet .

99. Curious Cadet - January 9, 2013

@88 & 94 Disinvited
@91 Phil

Gentlemen, I tend to agree with Phil that in the instance of Spock getting Kirk back on the Enterprise, he was aware of the imminent circumstances. He knew getting his younger self out of the captains chair was the right thing to do to thwart Nero, which was his fault. And that’s all he did. What happened after Kirk and Scotty beamed off Delta Vega was out of his hands. True, he felt the relationship between Kirk and Spock was important and he did what he could to encourage that, but that’s hardly giving away state secrets. And as far as we know, Prime Spock has not done anything else to change the course of this universe with his future knowledge.

Nevertheless, I didn’t necessarily say Spock wouldn’t contribute to Starfleet intelligence, just that he should be logical enough to realize that any information he might divulge going forward about this universe to help this federation might be misused.

But more importantly, back to Phil’s original comment, any information Prime Spock might give them, might not necessarily result in the elimination of the threat, such as blowing the Botany Bay to bits.

100. Curious Cadet - January 9, 2013

@86 lostrod
@80 CoffeeProf
“Have you seen BDUs or ACUs?”
“Both DCU’s and ACU’s are loose fitting uniforms (I think more-so than BDUs) for comfort purposes….Overall, both uniforms were designed for comfort rather than appearance. Lots of pockets to carry stuff any.”

Good point you guys. I was mainly thinking about Roddenberry’s original vision of the future, but definitely the uniforms work in context with today’s military, and probably resonate better with today’s kids.

Of course there’s still no pockets, which Roddenberry ruled out as well. Seems like this Trek would benefit from a few pockets too. Velcro seems like a brain dead decision for field use. Nothing like a loud ripping sound to draw your enemies attention.

Out of curiosity, do they wear DCUs/ACUs/BDUs on naval vessels?

101. Disinvited - January 9, 2013

#99. Curious Cadet – January 9, 2013

I’ll take your well-reasoned response under advisement but I will also remind you that when alt Kirk asked Spock Prime to transwarp beam out with him back to Enterprise, Prime said he had something more pressing to attend to. Whatever that was, as he did not further pop up in the dealing with Nero action that he left to Kirk, one has to assume that Spock Prime had something other left to do than “nothing”.

102. Curious Cadet - January 9, 2013

@101 Disinvited,

I’m inclined to believe Spock Prime “exaggerated”. What could he have done? Delta Vega was cut off from Starfleet. No he pretty much said that for the same reason he told Kirk he must not tell alt Spock that Prime Spock existed. The most urgent thing Prime Spock had to attend to was likely an overdue bowel movement.

103. Disinvited - January 9, 2013

#102. Curious Cadet – January 9, 2013

LOL. I think you are forgetting that once and he and Scotty set up the Delta Vega transporter for transwarp beaming that Spock could do that movement at the porcelain altar of his choice.

104. Jimi - January 9, 2013

I have a question for those who believe Harrison is Khan, or augment type- how would Khan be able to cure the dying girl in the hospital in the 9 minute preview – Harrison says he can do that – do you believe that eugenics delivers medical knowledge or ability? In Space Seed & Wrath – Khan and his followers were quite strong but weren’t the brightest bunch seeing how Kirk outwitted him (multiple times)!

105. The Last Vulcan - January 9, 2013

@104. Jimi – I’ve got it! Harrison puts on the teacher hairdryer dome from Spock’s Brain! :)

106. Red Dead Ryan - January 9, 2013

Well, I would argue we never really got to see the “superiority” of Khan and his fellow “supermen” either in “Space Seed”, or “The Wrath Of Khan”.

If John Harrison (or another augment) is Khan, its quite likely that the writers have noted how easily Kirk defeated him in “Space Seed” and have written into the script, and then filmed on camera, the depiction of Khan’s superior intellect and skills that weren’t really elaborated before.

In both TOS and TWOK, Khan and his men were said to be superior intelligence and strength-wise. But we only saw Khan being slightly stronger than Kirk.

Khan is mainly remembered as a great character due to Ricardo Montalban’s performances.

107. Red Dead Ryan - January 9, 2013

I would say that if John Harrison is an augment, that it is feasible that he would be able to come up with cures that ordinary humans either couldn’t or wouldn’t.

Seeing Khan and the augments depicted in the sequel the way they were during TOS and TWOK (and even “Enterprise”) it would be a letdown. J.J Abrams and co. know this, and would actually show us how “superior” these guys are, especially in the fields of science and medicine.

108. Jack - January 9, 2013

I liked ‘supermen’ a lot better than ‘augments.’ That word bugs me. It may be my deep, yet entirely rational, anti-Enterprise bias.

109. Thomas - January 9, 2013

This should interest some people here, as there are those who have been calling for it:

http://trekweb.com/articles/2013/01/10/ARTICLE-UPDATE-TrekWeb-Internet-Campaign-to-Restore-William-Shatners-Star-Trek-V-The-Final-Frontier-for-New-BluRay-Release-.shtml

110. Jack - January 10, 2013

109. That wouldn’t be a restoration — that would be creating brand new footage. A lot of it. I like how the Trekweb article blames studio budget cuts — the movie still cost more than II, III or IV.

111. Red Dead Ryan - January 10, 2013

The cost of restoring “The Final Frontier” would be so much, it would make more sense for Paramount to make an entirely new movie from scratch. Plus only a handful of hard core fans would double dip for a new version of the movie.

William Shatner would most likely demand half of the revenue.

Not going to happen.

Now, a remastered TMP on Blu Ray, that is probably more feasible.

112. Red Dead Ryan - January 10, 2013

I mean a remastered director’s edition of TMP on Blu Ray.

113. Tiberius Subprime - January 10, 2013

@106

Interesting.

If ‘augments’ or ‘supermen’ becomes the idea of this film via John Harrison, then I think that this second film is really a set-up for the third film, where we really do see Khan.

I think if they are doing Khan, then the third film would be his story (with more detail on his superior intellect and achievements).

114. Killamarshtrek - January 10, 2013

@ 96. NCC-73515

Thanks!

115. Helen AG - January 10, 2013

Thanks for posting the BAD ROBOT videos. Very Interesting to learn some aspects of the filmmaking.

116. Killamarshtrek - January 10, 2013

With thanks to NCC-73515 for spotting it, I’ve produced a screen capture of this image from the Bad Robot ‘Webinar’.

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q689/Killamarshtrek/Soundeffects_zpse61754ac.jpg

It is clearly a list of sound effects Folders, some of which have been opened to show the individual sounds. Amongst them are ‘Lava Bubbles’ (from Volcano scene?), the usual transporter, Warp core etc Star Trek sounds you’d expect, Ambulances and 3 variations of ‘April Giant Gun’.
That’s April as in ROBERT APRIL, not John Harrison!

There are others that are difficult to make out. take a look!

117. Al - January 10, 2013

That’s April as in Peter Weller

118. BulletInTheFace - January 10, 2013

#92: Yike, no! With all due respect, that would make for a horrible series.

119. LordCheeseCakeBreath - January 10, 2013

I’ve been a huge fan of trek for 30 years! I have to say I have very little excitement for this film. This trendy film making style is silly to me. And don’t get me started the the aesthetics! I’m assuming the brewery is back as warp cores? Lame! Yes I’m a geek and this stuff matters! Cheers!

120. Jeff O'Connor - January 10, 2013

Robert April’s giant gun — “final boss fight” experience.

121. Moputo Jones - January 10, 2013

I am really interested in seeing how they work Capt. April into the story, considering that he wasn’t the first captain of the NCC-1701 in this timeline.

122. The Last Vulcan - January 10, 2013

@121. Moputo Jones – Remember that in TAS April had the reverse aging secret sauce… so is it a coincidence that the entire movie opens with Harrison (who I believe is the reverseaged April) offering to cure a kid with a FAST AGING disease? :)

123. Frederick - January 10, 2013

I’m not getting all this reference to a “reverse aging secret sauce,” the only reason April grew younger in TAS was because they were thrown into another universe where time flowed backwards for a short time. No way that is being referenced in the movie. Best to forget that angle.

124. Gary S. - January 10, 2013

123. they could acheive Aprils deaging in other ways.
It is Science Fiction after all

125. Steve Johnson - January 10, 2013

Yeah. There was no “secret” in the negative universe in TAS. Kirk and crew became too young and tiny to pilot the ship, and April/his wife were able to take command of the enterprise and save the crew because they had de-aged back to their prime years.

That doesn’t discount that Weller could be playing a Starfleet Captain, even April. Which would be pretty slick. That’d be all three Captains of The Enterprise in one film. I could dig that.

126. Phil - January 10, 2013

Robert April’s Giant Gun…so, in this alternate universe he’s a p**n star?

Oh, yeah, baby, 23rd century enhancement. One simple trick to make your warp core bigger….

127. Phil - January 10, 2013

@124. There’s always that old stand by, the transporter malfunction. Why they don’t use those things to genetically engineer everyone is beyond me….

128. Phil - January 10, 2013

Trek 5 was awful (so was Generations), all the blu-ray treatment would do is make it awful in hi-def. Bad use of resources for something that would end up selling 20 copies.

129. Curious Cadet - January 10, 2013

@106 Red Dead Ryan,
“Khan is mainly remembered as a great character due to Ricardo Montalban’s performances.”

Khan is mainly remembered at all because Nick Meyer thought he would make an interesting TOS character to reprise in the films (he was just lucky Montalban played him in the first place and was available to reprise the role in the second). Otherwise, it’s arguable Khan would have remained as obscure as any other villain from the series. Outside of Trek fans, most general audiences are aware of Khan in pop culture because of Shatner’s much ridiculed “Khaaaaaaaaaaan!”, and Montalban’s well preserved pectorals.

But this brings up a very important point against STID’s villain being Khan. Nick Meyer did something brilliant. He sifted through 79 episodes of Star Trek and DISCOVERED Khan. I would be hard pressed to say I would have chosen Space Seed as a top 10 favorite episode prior to TWOK. But that’s why Nick Meyer saved Star Trek from itself. He found an original character the fan base could easily identify with, while crafting a brand new movie to tell a compelling story having little to do with Khan otherwise. And this should be the goal of any Star Trek filmmaker.

So why then would The Supreme Court settle for reheating last nights entree in the microwave when they could prepare someing fresh and original from the contents of the pantry? As I see it Nick Meyer is the standard here, and he wasn’t even an accomplished filmmaker at the time. The Spreme Court comes into STID with a heady reputation, yet the best they can do is retread Nick Meyer’s brilliant idea?

Well I hope not. From what I know of these guys, if they are going back to the original material they are looking for their own nick Meyer moment. Who among us would want to do anything differently? And Orci is one of us. It’s an opportunity to demonstrate how brilliant and creative you are, so with 79 episodes to choose from, with an equal number of fascinating antagonists, why would anyone settle for following in an arguably lesser writer/director’s footsteps?

130. Steve Johnson - January 10, 2013

Curious Cadet. It was Harve Bennet who “sifted through 79 episodes of Star Trek and discovered Khan.” (Whatever that means, Space Seed has always been regarded as one of the best of the original series episodes, even before Trek 2.

131. LogicalLeopard - January 10, 2013

72. Curious Cadet – January 9, 2013
What exactly are all of those scary ideas? In Space Seed, Khan wasn’t particularly scary. They even praised him for his peaceful reign over 1/4 of the Earth’s population. He was ruthless in his tactics, but really, what did Khan want? To rule peacefully? In TWOK he wasn’t particularly scary either. He was out for revenge on Kirk. He was irrational. We’ve already had that with Nero. Don’t get how this idea is particularly unique to Khan.

***************************

The “scary” idea is Eugenics itself, and the implicit idea that those who are more capable and strong are fit for leadership. Doesn’t sound so scary in itself, but when put into practice, it snowballs. You start off curing diseases and improving the health of sickly individuals.

Then you progress to expanding the mental capabilities of individuals. So what’s wrong with that? Denobulans have practiced genetic engineering to positive effect, and would genetic engineering render humanity any different than Vulcans? Maybe, maybe not. But given humanity’s history with eugenics, even back to Hitler’s day, it can be a very scary road for humanity to travel down. Plus, it can lead to a genetic “arms race”, like it did in the case of the Klingons in ENT.

******************************

“As far as Paxton, I severely doubt it. It makes no sense to ressurect a villian from the last season of a cancelled series.”
——————————-
So were just ignoring that Bob Orci specifically said Weller was a newly created character, and NOT from canon? Or perhaps we all still believe he is a liar? Of course he’s not playing Paxton!

***************************

Uhm no, I think I mentioned in my post, or elsewhere that I had forgotten whether or not they stated that Weller was playing a canon or new character.

**************************

Not likely. I postulated this theory early on. TOS is very clear about this. At the end of the Eugenics wars there were only 80 or 90 supermen unaccounted for. The Botany Bay accounts for 86 of them, including Khan. That leaves approximately 4 unaccounted for, assuming the Botany Bay wasnt meant to account for that entire number. So it’s technically possible to account for at least Harrison. The fact that Enterprise revisited the Augments story certainly opens a number of possibilities, despite being told that the Federation ordered all those embryos destroyed — Orci’s fascination with this shadow organization within Starfleet certainly ties in with Section 31 and the potential to not only salvage some of the technology, but also running a secret augment program of their own.

**********************

I’m in agreement with all of that. I didn’t recall the numbers on unaccounted augments, but like you are implying, those are KNOWN ADULT augments. Still, that makes it seem less possible for another Botany Bay out there.

**********************

The biggest problem I have with Harrison being some 20th century augment is that he’s described as just some normal guy working within Starfleet. I don’t believe a guy approximately Kirk’s age without any documentation could ever infiltrate Starfleet following the Federation’s 9/11 in the 23rd century. If that’s who Harrison turns out to be, then he would have to be set up by this shadow organization, and I just can’t imagine any augment co-operating in this way, even if the Federation is holding the Botany Bay hostage, nor why the shadow organization would even want to “hide” him in plain site like that. It’s a huge risk for them if he slips up in any way and he’s discovered. I mean one routine medical scan would betray him instantly.

*************************

Valid points. Concerning the medical scan, it has been done before, however, with Bashir. Bashir was a doctor, but I doubt he was allowed to give evaluations to himself. But another problem with Harrison as a 20th century augment is that it makes the story more complicated for the average viewer. I initially thought Harrison was Khan, then maybe another Botany Bay augment. I’m now leaning towards an average Starfleet officer who maybe suffered from some genetic ailment corrected through illegal augmentation. Then later, when he goes on his all-out crusade, he kicks it up a notch to full augment ability. I think it’d be awesome to see this guy go from a sickly Reginald Barclay type to full fledged Khan-like mode.

132. The Last Vulcan - January 10, 2013

@123. Frederick – The kid has progeria. Harrison offers the cure. Harrison tosses around a huge gun. April’s Gun. Harrison is April de-aged. If you can come up with a more logical resolution, have at ‘er.

133. LogicalLeopard - January 10, 2013

104. Jimi – January 9, 2013
I have a question for those who believe Harrison is Khan, or augment type- how would Khan be able to cure the dying girl in the hospital in the 9 minute preview – Harrison says he can do that – do you believe that eugenics delivers medical knowledge or ability? In Space Seed & Wrath – Khan and his followers were quite strong but weren’t the brightest bunch seeing how Kirk outwitted him (multiple times)!

107. Red Dead Ryan – January 9, 2013

I would say that if John Harrison is an augment, that it is feasible that he would be able to come up with cures that ordinary humans either couldn’t or wouldn’t.

Seeing Khan and the augments depicted in the sequel the way they were during TOS and TWOK (and even “Enterprise”) it would be a letdown. J.J Abrams and co. know this, and would actually show us how “superior” these guys are, especially in the fields of science and medicine.

********************************

As far as Eugenics delivering medical knowledge or ability, knowledge of eugenics is medical science itself. An augment who is versed in the genetic engineering that created him would also be familiar on how to tweak genes to produce positive effects, and reverse negative effects. The little girl is probably suffering from a genetic disorder. Genetic therapy could reverse her illness. I’m not a geneticist, so I’m not sure how that would play out in real life, but it’s certainly possible in Trek because that’s what happened to Bashir. He was born with limited cognitive ability, and as a child, those effects were reversed. Not only that, but his general intelligence, sensory abilities, and coordination were heightened. He wasn’t physically altered for strength, however, which is maybe how he was able to pass those Starfleet physicals, now that I think about it. He would just come across as a slightly above average human, no different than your average genius or elite ping pong player.

As far as intelligence in the TWOK augments, remember that they were smart enough to fly a starship when they had NEVER done so before, nor had significant exposure to the technology of that time. Kirk would have been able to defeat them because not only is he more familiar with the technology, he’s more familiar with (and extremely adept at) the tactics of the time. And any lessening of Khan’s strength could have been due to illness or other debiltating effects of the hostile environment he was in on Ceti Alpha whatever.

134. Curious Cadet - January 10, 2013

@130. Steve Johnson,
“Curious Cadet. It was Harve Bennet who “sifted through 79 episodes of Star Trek and discovered Khan.” (Whatever that means, Space Seed has always been regarded as one of the best of the original series episodes, even before Trek 2.”

Thanks for setting me straight. Did not mean to miscredit the DISCOVERY. But this is even more to my point — Harve Bennet was a TV PRODUCER. So The Supreme Court wants to limit their filmmaking efforts to that of first-time filmmaker, rather than blazing their own course and leaving their own indelible mark on the franchise? I don’t think so.

For what it’s worth, I never really thought twice about Khan before TWOK. Since the Internet didn’t exist then, I have to take your word for it that Space Seed was in the top 10 for most Trek fans. It was not for me, but that could have been due to my age at the time as well …

135. LogicalLeopard - January 10, 2013

132. The Last Vulcan – January 10, 2013
@123. Frederick – The kid has progeria. Harrison offers the cure. Harrison tosses around a huge gun. April’s Gun. Harrison is April de-aged. If you can come up with a more logical resolution, have at ‘er.

***************************************

The “April’s gatlin gun” reference comes from a media visit to Bad Robot Studios a while back, I believe, in which a reporter/reporters saw a book of sketches opened to a page with a weapon labeled “April’s Gatlin gun.” I also think that this gun appeared to be the one Harrison totes on Qu’noS.

Since JJ & Co are:

1) Extremely Secretive, and,

2) Appear to either intentionally misdirect or allow for misdirection regarding this film,

it appears to me that this is a deliberate red herring. What, they FORGOT they left a sketchbook lying around open? Highly unlikely. And even more entertaining,

3) The “April’s Gatling Gun” sketch was seen AFTER there was already speculation on this website about April being the villiain, and

4) We know that Bob Orci both reads and responds to threads on this website.

The April speculation is VERY much in left field. If April is in this movie, which I HIGHLY doubt, Weller’d have a better chance of playing him. Weller’s not playing a canon character, according to the producers, but then again, how canon is April? He’s never made an appearance in anything other than TAS, which is of dubious canon status enough for them to pull a Spocklike “I exaggerated” with. Maybe April is now some sort of private contractor, and he designed the gatling gun. But that sounds about as ridiculous as all of the other April speculation. No reason I can think of why they would put April in the movie, and make him a bad guy.

136. Curious Cadet - January 10, 2013

@132. The Last Vulcan,
“The kid has progeria….Harrison tosses around a huge gun. April’s Gun.”

Where did the progeria thing come from? Was this actually officially confirmed somewhere? I don’t recall them giving this diagnosis in the 9 minute preview.

Given these guy’s interest in homages, couldn’t it be possible that the “April” gun is just named after its inventor, Capt. April? Not named for the person using it?

137. Curious Cadet - January 10, 2013

@135. LogicalLeopard,
“As far as intelligence in the TWOK augments, remember that they were smart enough to fly a starship when they had NEVER done so before, nor had significant exposure to the technology of that time.”

Maybe … But I seem to recall almost anyone could fly the Enterprise if they managed to take it over. Maybe I’m just misremembering.

I tend to agree with your rebuttals to my earlier comments, the ideas behind genetic engineering are scary, and we never got to see just how smart they were in space seed. Thanks to the depiction of women in the sixties, we got to see how weak McGivers was, and like that example we should also just forget the rather average fight sequence between Kirk and Khan which demonstrated few if any superior physical attributes.

138. Yanks - January 10, 2013

@ 137. Curious Cadet – January 10, 2013

Nah, Khan read all the ships technical manuals during Space Seed.

139. Curious Cadet - January 10, 2013

@183 Yanks,

Haha yup! That’s right. Forgot about that. Something a post Nero Starfleet would never allow!

The smartest guy in the world wouldn’t be able to just run unknown complex technology without some help. In this case he had both the manuals and McGivers (for some reason Starfleet officers all know how to do everything whether part of their area of expertise or not).

140. Dunsel Report - January 10, 2013

#108: Jack, you are not alone. It is disappointing to see Khan ret-conned on Memory Alpha by Enterprise writers into an “augment.” I think J.J. Abrams and Orci/Kurtzman, if they ever bring Khan back, will know that “superman” will be a more meaningful term to the public.

“Augment” sounds like “enhanced interrogation techniques.”

141. LogicalLeopard - January 10, 2013

@135. LogicalLeopard,
“As far as intelligence in the TWOK augments, remember that they were smart enough to fly a starship when they had NEVER done so before, nor had significant exposure to the technology of that time.”

Maybe … But I seem to recall almost anyone could fly the Enterprise if they managed to take it over. Maybe I’m just misremembering.

I tend to agree with your rebuttals to my earlier comments, the ideas behind genetic engineering are scary, and we never got to see just how smart they were in space seed. Thanks to the depiction of women in the sixties, we got to see how weak McGivers was, and like that example we should also just forget the rather average fight sequence between Kirk and Khan which demonstrated few if any superior physical attributes.

************************************

You know, I just started watching Space Seed again, and haven’t had time to watch more than half of the episode. If you’re referring to a fight scene in TOS, that can be attributed to the fact that the karate chop is scientifically proven to beat everything and everyone *LOL* Try that next time you throw paper and someone throws scissors. “KARATE CHOP breaks scissors into itty bitty pieces!”

*********************************
137. Curious Cadet – January 10, 2013

Nah, Khan read all the ships technical manuals during Space Seed.

**********************************

You’re right! Forgot about that. VERY smart of Kirk. “Oh hey, 20th century brilliant dictator. Would you like something to read while you convalesce? Esquire, the New York Times, Le Monde, the technical specifications for this ship to aid in your inevitable takeover attempt? If not, I think we have Marmaduke in our library as well. That mutt cracks me up!”

142. Phil - January 10, 2013

Apparently it does not take any special skill to pilot a Federation starship, as they seem to be stolen or comendeered with amazing frequency.

143. Robman007 - January 10, 2013

142: Apparently security in the Federation is sub par as well. The Enterprise crew, outside Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Scotty and sometimes the other three, were practically useless. Kirk and Spock had to do it all. Security was a joke.

It’s better to take a breath and enjoy these films and shows for escapist fantasy fiction. Guys like the poster @119 take this stuff way too seriously. Bashing a film before it’s released. Sad.

I’m sure the “April gun” stuff is a fake. Just something to throw off spoiler obsessed fan boys off. Cumberpatch was spot on with his comments regarding candy.

144. Admiral Kirk - January 10, 2013

@31

A little late to say it now based on how many others have commented, but TWOK is NOT every Trekkie’s favorite movie. Don’t be so ignorant and lump everybody in the same group. To your point: Starfleet = Navy of the stars. Just because the Enterprise’s mission was to “explore” does not mean that it isn’t a military vessel. So on this, you are 100 percent correct.

145. Admiral Kirk - January 10, 2013

@119

Yes, you are a geek but no this stuff doesn’t matter. If you prefer TOS or original films to this, then you don’t have to watch the new films. Seems logical doesn’t it?

146. Disinvited - January 10, 2013

#134. Curious Cadet

I think if you check the credits of FRINGE, CBS’ current HAWAII 5-O, and the movie COWBOYS & ALIENS that you might be surprised by the other hats that members of the SC wears.

147. Phil - January 10, 2013

@143. Could not agree more. While I know what I’d like to see, it’s all about artistic interpetation. Passions tend to run hot, and I think that guys like me who tend to enjoy both of the big Sci-fi franchises tend to fan them a bit, because Trek and Wars really are not that different. All I need, really, is a decent story – the glitches really won’t matter that much.

148. Killamarshtrek - January 10, 2013

@135. LogicalLeopard

If you check out the image on my earlier post (116) you’ll see further pretty compelling evidence for ‘April’s Gun’ on Bad Robot’s very own Sound Editing System. A lot of trouble to go to for a red herring – falsifying sound files on their own system. These guys are busy getting a film ready!

Robert April IS in this film, only question is, is he Harrison de-aged or is he Weller? I don’t know why April is in the film, maybe it’s just a nod to us trekkers, or maybe he has a grudge against his former exec Pike, kills him which then makes this personal to Kirk. Whatever the reason he is in this film!

149. TrekMadeMeWonder (and Trekkies spoiled It here) - January 10, 2013

Thanks, Trekkies.

You take the most miniscule data and turn it into the biggest spoiler.
I could think of a better way to market this film than to leave clumsy timy clues for everyone to pick up on. What a way to reveal a major plot element.

I am a bit disapointed.

Must I shelve TrekMovie until June?

150. TrekMadeMeWonder - January 10, 2013

So glad I don’t hang at the Iron-Man 3 website.

151. Phil - January 10, 2013

It might be just a bit premature to be declaring that Robert April is a character in this movie…

152. Skulltrail - January 10, 2013

But it would fit very well with Robert April, because Harrison is operating or maybe coming from London as April himself!!!

153. Robman007 - January 10, 2013

@149…before you start on the over the top, Shatner level drama queen acting, take into account that nobody has said Robert April was for sure in the film. It’s true because of “sound files?” HA, the guys running these films are far, far too clever put the clues RIGHT infront of you. They know that the more technical minded of Trek fans would hack into the app to try and get any spoiler-riffic clues that they can.

It’s a fake. It’s a fraud. It’s screwing with our heads. We’ll all look back on this and get a good laugh.

Remember, the villain (?), played by Benedict Cumberpatch, is described as being very manipulative, creative and intelligent…his intelligence is on the same level as Spock. (and he is Sherlock Holmes for god sakes..the role that helped him get noticed enough to get this part)…so, who is to say the marketing is following the same pattern.

The “open art book” at the Bad Robot tour…the app with the sound file names…those are just dead ends put in to manipulate folks and get folks off a path that, for all intents and purposes, has been laid out plainly in front of Trek fans from the start.

April, it is not. He has nothing to do with the film. Nothing at all.

154. Disinvited - January 10, 2013

#149 TrekMadeWonder

Did you honestly open a door labeled “TrekMovie” and expect to find absolutely nothing in it (movie posters, trailers, etc.) that might spoil the story of the sequel for you?

155. Disinvited - January 10, 2013

#153. Robman007

Sounds as if you are intimating that in order to better realize John Harrison on the silver screen, all involved decided to let their inner Harrison out? Which is to say, in effect, that John Harrison made the sequel. I find that an interesting take.

156. TrekMadeMeonder - January 10, 2013

154. Disinvited

No Disinvited. Just pointing out that the marketing of this movie has had its setbacks already. It would surprise me if such “clues” are placed on purpose, or left open to see.

This Trek is looking good and surprises should stay that way until their time is due – onscreen. For minor hints to be left open to see is disappointing. I’d rather see a genuine Internet clue/game/campaign. If your going to emulate Dark Knight, I’d suggest you immatate their makerting on the web side.

153. Robman007. You resurrected my Trekkie faith!

157. Robman007 - January 10, 2013

In effect. John Harrison is no doubt J.J Abrams, Roberto Orci and anybody, everybody involved in the film from a writer/producer standpoint…even bits and pieces of Benedict Cumberpatch as well. Secrets, conspiracies, and red herrings are all things these individuals are are known for, in one form or another. Seems to be the marketing and “spolier leakage” pattern..secrets, lies and false leads.

What better way to distract individuals and create more conspiracy ridden talk then to put in PLAIN site “April’s Gun” knowing that Trek fans would jump all over it. Makes zero sense considering everything regarding this film has been kept hush hush for the better part of 3 years. It’s a amateur mistake to make. Another red herring like the real name of the villain..it’s not Harrison, at least it won’t be by the final reel of film.

So yes, this film was written by John Harrison. Master manipulator. Besides, Harrison is just equal parts of everyone involved from a production standpoint, and played by an individual who is no doubt channeling some of what he has picked up playing Sherlock Holmes (master manipulator, intelligent…actually, playing his “evil” opposite, just in a sci-fi setting..)

158. Robman007 - January 10, 2013

or instead of Amateurish mistake I say it’s more or less a brilliant way to keep folks guessing. More food for thought to keep the film in people’s minds and to generate interest. Actually, very smart. I just don’t think Robert April has anything to do with the film in the long run.

Who knows. Either way, I find the guessing game to be highly entertaining. I remember the same guessing game with fans in regards to The Dark Knight Rises. Pretty amusing.

159. Killamarshtrek - January 10, 2013

Remember this is not a behind the scenes tour for ‘fanboys’. This is a video presentation meant to showcase ‘state of the art’ editing software to media professionals, the fact that it shows pre-production on STID is incidental. The level of deviousness you are postulating is unrealistic. These are very busy professional people you know!

I’ve always subscribed to the ‘I wont believe it till I’ve seen it myself’ point of view. It seems some people wont even believe their own eyes!

160. Gary S. - January 10, 2013

There have actually been rumors about April going back as far as three or four years ago .
I believe TrekWeb had an article about it .
A search of the archives might yield results.

161. Robman007 - January 10, 2013

“The level of deviousness you are postulating is unrealistic.”

Not really. These guys have gone to great pains to keep certain aspects of this film under wraps. I’m pretty sure that items related to the identity to the main villains in a film that seems to be knee deep in conspiracy plots and “darkness” would not just be lying around for anybody to see. More like planted red herrings. Misdirection, quite possibly. It just seems too convienient and easy. Then again, production code names are often not the same as the final product due to re-writes and what not.

Besides, it really does not matter. Half of the enjoyment comes from being surprised. The other half comes from taking a brand new ride with a set of characters we all care about, in one form or fashion.

162. Robman007 - January 10, 2013

I mean involved in the writing/production of this film are self professed fans of The X-Files. The X-Files was rife with conspiracies and false leads..fake evidence “leaked” out in an almost careless manner.

I know a little something about the industry. You just don’t leave stuff like that laying around. These guys are smarter then that. They are Professionals at keeping these kind of secrets. They have whole departments that are made to just keep track of scene continuity. Christopher Nolan is a notorious example of that. You see that bananna on the table in a stock market scene in the Dark Knight Rises? That bananna has been sitting there for 2-3 days worth of filming, in a hot room (based on the fact that the scene inside the GSE was filmed in LA, not NY, so the weather was rather hot, mixed in with all the pyro technic visuals used indoor). That bannana would rot quick. They have someone who switches that piece of fruit out for another, and they have identical spot marks each time…doing that regularly.

They know what they are doing, and laying around evidence about a character who is intrigal to the plot is not something they just let happen (same goes with an App that they KNOW folks will hack into, why protect the identity of a villain for so long and yet so carelessly just give it away)…they are red herrings, and very intelligent ones…either that or they think that with all the Khan/Mitchell/Garth/Paxton talk that folks are too dumb to realize those clues..but I don’t think it’s that.

163. Phil - January 10, 2013

When JJ saw the extent that people were going to go to during shooting to take some pics, and responded according (remember the great wall?) . It is rather inconceivible that they would leave some really obvious clues lying around during a tour…silly me, who left THAT out…hehehehehe…

164. NuFan - January 10, 2013

129 So why then would The Supreme Court settle for reheating last nights entree in the microwave when they could prepare someing fresh and original from the contents of the pantry?

Because rebooting becomes utterly and completely pointless if you don’t intend to change any canon.

165. Robman007 - January 10, 2013

Well, lets look at it this way.

So, based on the interviews with actors, this movie quite possibly involves conspiracy elements, as indicated in the comic books.

Now, the villan. Hmm…it’s logical to say that the individuals responsible have a secret. Either Harrison or Wellers character or both. Now, is the secret a double identity? Maybe, but it has to fit a pattern that the films have set. It won’t be anything that will go above the heads of the average audience. If it’s an identity, it will be something that the average movie audience will “get”..such as Khan. That is identifiable. Folks know who Khan is. It WON’T be something like Garth of Izar or even more “geeky” as Robert April. That is a surprise for a movie tailored to Trek fans, which is not the case of these films, that much has been confirmed. That won’t be a shocker to the average movie goer. So that leads to possibly having the secret being something along the lines of a physical secret, such as illegal experimentation, Clones, physically modified Klingon agents or possibly that Harrison is an android in the service of Wellers “CEO” character who is abducting individuals and placing them in cryogenic suspension and replacing said folks with androids…I mean, he has super strength, agility and intelligence on the level or above that of Spock…android or genetic manipulation (or even clones) seem logical. Modeling the surprise after an obscure character from a silly animated show that NOBODY outside Trek fans watched does not fit the model of making a film that is “not” for Trek fans.

It’s not Robert April. Nor is it Gary Mitchell….Weller is playing someone in a secret capacity, but it’s not an established character. The big “secret” will be of a physical one, I’m willing to bet…unless the characters are something the average person can identify (Khan..and…that’s about it..maybe?)

166. Jack - January 10, 2013

140. Okay cool. It really bugs me. I’m kind of hoping Enterprise mentions will be minimal — since it never made much sense that the show/ship existed in the first place. I don’t say that as a canonista, well, a little bit as a canonista, but it just seemed more like a recycled TNG/Voyager sequel (down to the costumes, make-up and production design), than a plausible tale of what came before TOS. I liked Bakula. And I hoped it would get better (and it kind of did, but didn’t at the same time). But everything — stories, characters, aliens, guest stars, jokes — was recycled.

I wish they’d just kept the line “an Admiral’s beagle” and let us fill in the Archer part, or not, in Trek ’09.

The show Caprica sold me as a BSG prequel. And as a stand-alone (albeit absurdly slow-paced) series. Even with the endless virtual reality stuff.

167. Robman007 - January 10, 2013

“Because rebooting becomes utterly and completely pointless if you don’t intend to change any canon”

Well, the idea of a total reboot has already been squashed by the “alternate reality” corner they painted themselves into. See what appeasing the fan base has done? It’s gone from the idea of starting over because established “cannon” was too cluttered to being cornered because you have to follow said “cannon”…right back in the corner you were painted into just so you wouldn’t tick off some overly dramatic fans who’d jump off a tall building at the mention of “total reboot”…

If this was a real reboot you could hire a guy like Benedict Cumberpatch and make him Khan..and just explain away that these individuals were created in a European lab, broke out and took over the world in sections. You could do alot. Unfortunatly, this new universe is shoe horned by the previous. The Botany Bay can’t look any different, Khan HAS to look the same, Klingons CANT have head ridges, etc etc.

168. LogicalLeopard - January 10, 2013

Killamarshtrek. – January. 10, 201

Sorry, still not buying it. You have to remember that these are the same people who “hid” the address for their viral campaign website in a Trent tiny display onthe side of the brig, KNOWING that someone would find it right away. They know enough to hide all sensitive info when cameras are or aren’t around.

I will go with you slightly and say April could make an appearance as an admiral or something. This speculation is all great fun.

169. Craiger - January 10, 2013

In an earlier post I thought Weller would be the Captain that takes over the Enterprise when Kirk goes rouge, what if Weller is Captain April?

170. Curious Cadet - January 10, 2013

@169 Craiger,

I know you have been around enough to know that Bob Orci told us Weller does not play a character from canon. He plays a new character created by Orci.

If you are going to keep up with these left-field suggestions, then you (and everybody else) must start preceding them with the phrase “Bob Orci lied”.

Also, I don’t understand why these references to April’s gun can’t simply be an homage, like calling the planet they marooned Spock on “Delta Vega”.

Capt. April designed the gun, invented the gun, commissioned the gun, first used the gun, or achieved a notable victory with the gun, such that it was colloquially named after him. It’s a nod to the fans. End of story.

171. MJ - January 10, 2013

@170. I think Orci has lied significantly about this movie for a long time, starting with messages 2.5 years ago that led us all to believe that the writing team was in an LA Hotel finishing the script. I am not negative about this — this is just my opinion.

Wake up and smell the coffee, folks.

172. MJ - January 10, 2013

@171. I would amend my post here to say that from his perspective, he probably doesn’t consider that he was being untruthful.

Again, I am not trying to negative here. I think he and Supreme Court are going to give us a great movie.

173. dontcare - January 10, 2013

@167.

It has been confirmed that the Klingons in this film have forehead ridges, facial hair like TOS, and piercings in their ridges. There was an article talking about it right here on Trekmovie.

174. Gary S. - January 11, 2013

Craiger might be onto something about Weller being April.

175. SoB - January 11, 2013

Regarding Peter Wellers role, this trekmovie article from last May is pretty interesting. Seems like he is playing a Starfleet captain. With his own ship and yellow command uniform and all…

http://trekmovie.com/2012/05/12/exclusive-peter-weller-drops-hints-about-his-star-trek-sequel-character/

176. Garth Faction - January 11, 2013

SoB

How does that seem like he is a Starfleet Captain? Seems like he is a CEO, a businessman. I’ve said MUDD makes sense to me. As someone who helps give arms to “Harrison.” Then he gets in too deep and needs Kirk’s help.

177. Garth Faction - January 11, 2013

Curious Cadet

And Orci has admitted he has lied at least once..

178. Jay Ley (Warrington, UK Trekker) - January 11, 2013

Cpt. Robert April is British and from Coventry (near Birmingham), he is not going to be played by Weller or Cumberbatch…

Having said that, it would be cool if he was in this movie, as I was disappointed not to see the character in ST09.

Please take the first line of this comment as ‘playfullness’, April could indeed be played by either of these actors, though I would prefer it be Cumberbatch as April is British… Unless Weller is good at accents!!! In all seriousness though, I highly doubt he would be involved in this movie’s plot, as using a character from the animated series would be very obscure!!! If, however he is involved, let him be an old Admiral, with a kick-ass gattling gun ;-)

179. Killamarshtrek - January 11, 2013

Here’s a random one for all you non April believers!

Robert April’s only cannon(ish) appearance was in TAS ‘The Counter Clock Incident’ right? Is it a coincidence that the ‘apparently’ random name of ‘John Harrison’ is also the name of Britain’s foremost historical clock maker?!

180. Aix - January 11, 2013

I have a feeling Cumberbatch and Weller is the same person in the movie. That is why they still haven’t revealed anything about Weller. Because then, we are spoiled. And come on, they look alike.

And Robert April/ John Harrison (yeah, they are the same person for me) character just screams time-travel. That is why it is cool and exciting as they say it is! Which I agree on, very much.

The photo Weller showed also seems to be the ship with black interiors. The same ship Cumberbatch is sitting in in the teaser.

181. dontcare - January 11, 2013

@179 Captain Robau in the 2009 movie was originally supposed to be Robert April, and the Kelvin was the Enterprise. That was how JJ wanted to do it originally, the studio made him change it, had it been done his way, PineKirk would have taken command of the Enterprise-A at the end of the movie.

JJ also wanted to include Carol Marcus in the last film, so her inclusion in this film should surprise no one, and has no bearing whatsoever on what other characters will appear.

182. Ralph Pinheiro - January 11, 2013

I find it strange because nobody talks about Peter Weller’s character. Abrams and Co. make no mention about it. Does Weler is the key point of the actions of Harrison?

183. Ralph Pinheiro - January 11, 2013

I find it strange because nobody talks about Peter Weller’s character. Abrams and Co. make no mention about it. Will Weler be the key point of the actions of Harrison?

184. TrekMadeMeWonder - January 11, 2013

181. dontcare

Source?

185. LogicalLeopard - January 11, 2013

179. Killamarshtrek – January 11, 2013
Here’s a random one for all you non April believers!

Robert April’s only cannon(ish) appearance was in TAS ‘The Counter Clock Incident’ right? Is it a coincidence that the ‘apparently’ random name of ‘John Harrison’ is also the name of Britain’s foremost historical clock maker?!

**************************

Yes, it is.

Come on….do you think that they would really rehash the plot for a TAS episode, which is sort of bizzare in itself, for a major motion picture? Not going to happen.

Or at least, it’s not going to happen with April as the bad guy. Is April in the movie? I thought about that for a bit, and although I don’t think he’s Harrison or a bad guy, I think there is a possibility of his appearance, purely because he’s part of Trek lore. Maybe he’s an Admiral or something. Or still a captain? Could Peter Weller play him? Possibly. That would explain why his character’s name hasn’t been released, maybe they want it to remain a surprise. Weller’s character has been described as non-canon, which could be April, because TAS is sort of “canon-ish” as you stated. He’s also been described as a CEO, which could be a removed way of saying Captain. And he took a picture of his grandkid I believe sitting in a captain’s chair wearing command gold. So I think there’s a chance that he is in the movie, I’m going to call it 40%.

But the April’s Gatlin Gun references, I still maintain they’re intentional misdirection and speculation fodder formulated after Orci read the April speculation on this page. The first report I saw on April’s Gatlin Gun, the reporter who wrote it thought it was probably placed intentionally. Out of all the major ideas (Khan, Mitchell, Joachim, Garth, Random Augment, etc.) April was probably the most bizzare because he’s a good guy. I think either they said “Look at this! Lets use that and confuse them even more about who Cumberbatch is playing,” or “Hey, they’ve guessed that we have April in the movie, but they think he’s the main villian. Lets throw speculation off Weller (or whoever plays him) and put it on Cumberbatch.”

186. thorsten - January 11, 2013

@179… very good musing. I slapped my head when you mentioned Harrison, remembering my trips to Greenwich! I even used the chronometer as label for a new brewery over there, MeanTime.

Regarding the discussion about the «Secrets from Inside Bad Robot» Avid reel, the filenames in Killamarshtreks screen shot regarding Aprils gun are so obscure that I don’t think they were left as a hint. A couple of lines further down in that folder is a file called «Cool Shit»

In the part regarding the hookup of Protools with the ISIS for example /and repeated earlier in the vid) is an edit list with notes from Kerry amd Mary Jo where it says «ADR Kirk: “we’ve got to get the power back on”»
If we follow the rather obvious way ARG URL was placed as red type in the trailer I’d say this would be the place they would have placed a hint. If they use an AVID webinar to fool us, which is of course possible.
So maybe one of the Starships destroyed by Harrison is the «USS April», crashing into the San Francisco harbor, or this huge gun belongs to an Aprils Fool…

187. The Last Vulcan - January 11, 2013

IMHO and ONLY IMHO: Anyone who thinks that JJ purposely peppered in incredibly tangential references to April throughout his pre-release media to lead the people on this site on the garden path really needs to reexamine their own common sense (and self-importance). Trekkers are a tiny minority of the public who will end up buying tickets and the people on this forum are an almost infinitesimal percentage of Trekkers in general. JJ makes movies for MASS audiences, so let’s all get some perspective here. There is nothing that is going to make me believe that April is not in the movie (and isn’t the reverseaging Harrison)… until I actually see the movie!

188. Moputo Jones - January 11, 2013

Everyone – enough of all of this nonsense about the reverse-aging April. April was reverse-aging in a mirror universe of the prime timeline. The only reason that he was on the prime timeline’s Enterprise is because he was a previous captain of the Enterprise taking one last joyride. He never was captain of the Enterprise in the JJverse timeline. I can’t say that April is not in this movie, but the reverse-aging aspect is not going to happen.

189. The Last Vulcan - January 11, 2013

@188. Moputo Jones – At least I paraphrased my comments by TWO IMHOs. I’m glad that you have absolutely definitive inside information since you’re obviously JJ’s prime confidante and that you are able to share it with us. Sheesh!

190. LogicalLeopard - January 11, 2013

IMHO and ONLY IMHO: Anyone who thinks that JJ purposely peppered in incredibly tangential references to April throughout his pre-release media to lead the people on this site on the garden path really needs to reexamine their own common sense (and self-importance). Trekkers are a tiny minority of the public who will end up buying tickets and the people on this forum are an almost infinitesimal percentage of Trekkers in general. JJ makes movies for MASS audiences, so let’s all get some perspective here. There is nothing that is going to make me believe that April is not in the movie (and isn’t the reverseaging Harrison)… until I actually see the movie!

*******************************

See, the only issue with that is that if Trekkers weren’t a major concern, they wouldn’t:

1) Come to this forum and actively participate.
2) Keep things so secretive, because even if Trekkers found out details, it wouldn’t reach the regular public because they wouldn’t care.
3) Waste money on interactive apps and websites, and
4) HIDE an interactive website address in a publicity still photograph. I love Star Trek, but I don’t think I would have ever even considered looking at the teeny tiny display on the brig that said “Areyouthe1701.com.” But someone found it in days, maybe even hours, I believe. And they put it there, instead of just publicizing it, because they KNEW Trekkers would find it, and find it quickly. This is really the biggest reason to suggest that the sketchbook and soundfiles were plants. Would people who have been SO secretive about a movie, that even all the character names haven’t been made public, leave a sketchbook placed in plain sight during a TOUR? Not just a tour, but a MEDIA tour, full of people trying to get a scoop. Or leave a computer on with a clue around rolling media cameras? Not likely.

That’s my humble opinion though. But I really do enjoy all the speculation, because at the end of the day, if April DOES show up as a villian, I can’t say I’ll be surprised, because ANYTHING is possible. He could be Sybok for all we know *L*

191. LogicalLeopard - January 11, 2013

188. Moputo Jones – January 11, 2013
Everyone – enough of all of this nonsense about the reverse-aging April. April was reverse-aging in a mirror universe of the prime timeline. The only reason that he was on the prime timeline’s Enterprise is because he was a previous captain of the Enterprise taking one last joyride. He never was captain of the Enterprise in the JJverse timeline. I can’t say that April is not in this movie, but the reverse-aging aspect is not going to happen.

***************************************

Agreed. Not only is the story too complex and irrelevant to rehash on camera, it may have not even happened in this timeline. If they did it, imagine how the rehash sequence would sound to the average non-Trekker. And to the average Trekker, imagine how it would sound to take a quasi canon character from TAS, and turn him into a bad guy. It’d be too silly and too complex. If anyone has a GOOD theory on how the writers could use Cumby as April, and April being the bad guy, I’m all ears.

192. BulletInTheFace - January 11, 2013

#180: Weller and Cumberbatch look alike?? LOL. They’re completely different-looking–they have vastly different faces, different builds, and different heights, not to mention different voices and accents. Clearly, they’re NOT playing the same guy. And time travel? No, they won’t do that again in this movie. No way–not a chance.

193. The Last Vulcan - January 11, 2013

191. LogicalLeopard – OK, here is your GOOD (?) theory:

Old April is on the (insert name of SF Bay Crashing TOS/TNG timeline ship here). He comes across to the JJ timeline “perhaps” because he got a heads up that the Botany Bay is on the JJ side and he wants to stop Khan and/or he has info that Khan has reverse aging secret sauce. The Klingons are after the Botany Bay for the same reason (leading to the big scene on Qo’noS). Keeping your prime warriors young forever has a significant value to the Empire. April gets young (is now Cumby) and takes over Harrison’s identity as the age is right. He also has to save the progeria kid (and yes, this has been widely discussed) as she plays an important role in “something” when she grows up. Through all this Harrison/April has determined that the JJ Federation is “somehow” evil and its existence threatens the continuation of his own TOS/TNG timeline. He has to destroy the core of the JJ Federation, the JJ Earth to preserve his own Earth. (Sound like Fringe much?).

Keep in mind that Cumby’s character is on the RIGHT side (according to him) so he needs to have inherent justification. What better justification than saving your the original Federation?

The proof of the pudding is always in the eating so we’ll have to settle who’s right and who’s wrong in May! :)

194. thorsten - January 11, 2013

@190…
That was what I tried to convolutedly say up in #186, LL.
The obviously placed reference to «Areyouthe1701.com» in the trailer makes sense, but the placement of obscure info like a soundfile in a geeky special interest webinar doesn’t. We all lived through Lost, and Lindelof&Cuse knew that the fans hovered over every single frame to find out who Ben/Jacob/Smokey etc. was… but the whole April business makes no sense regarding all these moviegoers who never heard of that guy.
But combing through still frames is fun, nonetheless. To quote Sherlock: «The world is full of obvious things which nobody by any chance ever observes.»

195. Danpaine - January 11, 2013

Good Lord, I hope the film is Leaps and Bounds better than what some of you are speculating. Augments, Capt. April de-aging, pseudo-Khan…what AWFUL ideas. I certainly hope TPTB have had more creative inspiration than that. We want this movie to be successful, right?

I’d rather see the guy in the white zipper-up Mugato suit chasing people around for two hours than any of these “ideas.”

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Mugato

196. Skulltrail - January 11, 2013

The child is not necessarily growing to someone special! The child is the key to the father for Harrison’s use! So its much more interesting maybe who the dad is playing!

But if you Look Ibdm

http://www.imdb.de/title/tt1408101/

There are many other roles which aren’t discussed yet!

197. LogicalLeopard - January 11, 2013

193. The Last Vulcan – January 11, 2013

Okay, right off the bat, how does April get from the original timeline to the new time line? Second, why would April try to take his ship back in time to stop Khan of all people? Khan didn’t do anything, except to the Reliant and Enterprise crews. There are much more significant things that could be stopped. Third, this reverse aging secret sauce – why would he want or need it? I understand that in the TAS episode, it happens by accident.

But the biggest issue is that this wouldn’t make sense from a practical standpoint, because it would confuse or alienate the audience, and interrupts the established timeline. The time travel/alternate dimension plot in the last movie had the potential to be confusing, but it was necessary to establish a “fresh start.” Also, it had markers that the casual viewer would recognize, like Leonard Nimoy, whose presense physically helps the audience understand that the old timeline is literally giving way to the new timeline.

But nobody knows April except for Trekkies, and rehashing the plot of a TOS character going back in time to the new universe with an unfamiliar character just sounds like a mess. We have to ask ourselves with all of these theories, “what can the general audience process and enjoy?”

Now, I’m with you, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, but lets be reasonable with our ideas.

198. Phil - January 11, 2013

Man, I’m glad we don’t write screenplays for a living…..

199. LogicalLeopard - January 11, 2013

@190…
That was what I tried to convolutedly say up in #186, LL.
The obviously placed reference to «Areyouthe1701.com» in the trailer makes sense, but the placement of obscure info like a soundfile in a geeky special interest webinar doesn’t. We all lived through Lost, and Lindelof&Cuse knew that the fans hovered over every single frame to find out who Ben/Jacob/Smokey etc. was… but the whole April business makes no sense regarding all these moviegoers who never heard of that guy.

********************

The only reason why I think the April business makes sense is because that book wasn’t placed until AFTER speculation about April being the bad guy was already going on this website. And we know for a fact that the producers (or at least Bob Orci) read and respond to things on THIS website.

If there was no speculation about April being the bad guy before, I would treat the sound file and sketch with more credence. But it seems like it was intentionally placed to fuel speculation in the Trek community, and throw us off base.

And why would they do that? Well, look at it this way. How do you mobilize the Trek base? A great plot won’t do it, because for every person that says “That sounds awesome” there’s going to be another person that says “Khan again?” or “Gary Mitchell? Why not go with tried and true Khan?”
So they keep things secretive, and mysterious, secretly releasing certain bits of information to keep the buzz going. So at the end, all of us are going to rush to the theatre on Opening Day because we want to find out what is going on with the movie, and of course, prove ourselves right/other people wrong *L* And if the base rushes to the theatre, and other casual fans or moviegoers show up too, because it looks cool, then you’ll have a blockbuster opening weekend. And with a blockbuster opening weekend, other people may be tempted to say, “Oh, well, everyone’s going to it, so I guess I’ll see it too. Must be good.”

Honestly, I’ve got little kids, so if I knew the definitive plot, I wouldn’t rush to try to find a sitter and take my wife out on opening night. But how I feel right now, I’m ready to ditch my wife totally and go see it myself, then take her again later *LOL* I may have to do that, actually, because I’m REALLY invested in this movie, after typing countless posts of speculation. So there, right off the bat, instead of two tickets from my household, they could have three: me twice, and her once.

200. Skulltrail - January 11, 2013

Yes or no?! I have a strange idea which would include April,, the klingons and a augment theory!

Harrison/ April heard about the augment manipulation from the klingons in order to heal himself or his wife! But he does not have the knowledge how to use it! So he requires the help of the father!

201. Moputo Jones - January 11, 2013

@189. The Last Vulcan

I used pure logic to deduce what I stated above. Sheesh, a real Vulcan would recognize that.

202. The Last Vulcan - January 11, 2013

@197. LogicalLeopard –

1) IMHO there is ZERO doubt that the ship crashing into SF Bay is from the TNG timeline. How does it get over? The same way Spock Prime did.

2) Khan is trying to take over the quadrant with eugenics supermen (witness Harrison’s 30 foot leap). Yeah, that’s a threat alright.

3) Reverse aging sauce makes you an eugenics superman. See above. Heck, I’d want that!

4) April is a great character as he’s canon (to some degree), his history is essentially unknown so fresh sheet of drafting paper, and he’s already set up to be a revered elder Starfleet hero idol who would hold considerable sway over Pike, Kirk, Spock, et al.

So, heck yeah. I’m sticking to my April Gatling Guns and stating that something close my plot is quite likely indeed.

@198. Phil – I’m not so sure. As much as I idolize boborci, there are plot holes and factual mistakes in the first movie you can drive the 1701 through.

@201. Moputo Jones – Haven’t you got the memo? After JJ & boborci blew up our planet the ones of us who are left tossed the logic nonsense in the can and got some serious ‘tude! :)

203. Skulltrail - January 11, 2013

@202 The Last Vulcan and all others

If the ship is from the TNG era, which role could Harrison play if we look not only at TOS?

What firstly came to my mind was Arne Davin (Cumberbatch) and Nilz Barris (Weller) ! But that independently from the era!

204. Skulltrail - January 11, 2013

Beau Billingslea … Captain Abbott

Ser’Darius Blain … Soldier

Brendan Norman … Enterprise Crew Engineer

Joseph Gatt

Ningning Deng … Deck Crew #11

Elly Kaye … Star Fleet Officer

Anjini Taneja Azhar … Girl

Gianna Simone … Deck Crew #7
Kraisit Agnew … Nikicha Tomser

Tom Archdeacon … Ensign Spyke

Melissa Baldridge … Deck Crew

Omid Zader … Meter maid

Jonathan Dixon … Weapons Officer Neville

Brent McGee … Enterprise Crew Engineer
Kasia Kowalczyk … Grasia Alien

Mike Kalinowski … Star Fleet Officer

Peet Montzingo … Bar Patron 2

Andy Demetrio … Obs.Deck Crew #6
Ariel Diane King … Star Fleet Civilian (as Ariel D King)

Hina Khan … Cadet (uncredited)

Westley Nguyen … Civilian (uncredited)

Kyle Valle … Star Fleet Civilian (uncredited)

Captain Abbott?! Ensign Spyke?!

205. Red Dead Ryan - January 11, 2013

I find it hilarious that the same people who have dumped on the Khan/Augments theories are the same folks peddling the “Robert April out for revenge over not being able to obtain the reverse aging secret sauce” idea. LOL!

I mean, c’mon, that sounds like “Insurrection”. And we know how that turned out!

And besides, they aren’t going to base the sequel on an obscure episode of TAS.

206. Skulltrail - January 11, 2013

Instead of Khan … April’s wife is in a cryo-tube :-)

207. Moputo Jones - January 11, 2013

This April theory will disappear as quickly as the Gary Mitchell theory did. Face it – Cumberbatch is John Harrison and Khan, who is not played by Cumberbatch, will be involved somehow.

208. Red Dead Ryan - January 11, 2013

#207.

Agreed!!!

209. LogicalLeopard - January 11, 2013

202. The Last Vulcan – January 11, 2013

1) By detonating red matter somewhere and being sucked into a black hole?Why would a Starfleet officer take something so dangerous and use it for an even MORE dangerous mission? As we learned from ST09, black holes can either transport you through time or kill you. And it doesn’t even appear to be precise. Let alone, where would he get Red Matter from?

And, if you say the ship is from the TNG era, this means a 140 something year old Admiral managed to hijack/commandeer a Starfleet vessel AND red matter. It’s more likely that the nacell design is just different.

2) So what you’re saying, is that April is from the future in this specific timeline, trying to prevent Khan from taking over the quadrant? So how far ahead in time is April from? TNG era? If April or anyone didn’t get to go back in time by 2270, the quadrant is probably ALREADY taken over, and it makes it even more unlikely that a 140 year old April could snatch a starship from Khan’s Intergalactic Empire

3) Yeah, well, reverse aging sauce is pretty nifty. Probably goes well on steak too. *LOL*

4) Well, yeah, I’d like to see April in the movie too. And I think there’s a chance the writer’s slipped him in. Just not as the main villian, and not as Benedict Cumberbatch.

I admire you for sticking to your guns. One of these days, soon, I’m going to have to come up with a theory and stick with it. My frontrunner now is that Harrison is simply Harrison, a Starfleet Officer who became sympathetic to the use of Eugenics, experimenting on himself to increase his own abilities, then others. Maybe he had some sort of physical defect himself, or a close family member, and thought that it was inhumane to ban research that heals the sick and betters the species. This is the “sympathetic” angle that BC and others were referring to. But he’s ruthless in his attempt to make it possible for everyone to undergo eugenic enhancement.

Khan may or may not play into it. I think Harrison is either trying to get Khan from Starfleet custody, or maybe he was a member of the crew that finds Khan, and studies his enhancements, figuring out a way to replicate them.

210. LogicalLeopard - January 11, 2013

204. Skulltrail – January 11, 2013

Yeah, I’m interested in seeing how these characters factor in. And I’m also interested in seeing WHY some characters aren’t named or referenced yet.

Stephen Gatt, Peter Weller, Nolan North, Nazneen Contractor, Heather Langenkamp, Nick Tarabay, and Noel Clarke have NOTHING by their names in IMDB. Why? Could it be a problem with IMDB, becaue they do afterall have Khan (rumored) by Cumberbatch. But why is it that we know that Omid Zader is playing a METER MAID, but we don’t know who Peter Weller, a well known actor, is playing? Why release “John Harrison” but not Peter Weller’s character?

Longshot guess on one person: I think Noel Clarke is Daystrom *L*

211. BulletInTheFace - January 11, 2013

#193: Cumberbatch is in the first nine minutes of the film. Your scenario of his appearing in the film after Weller plays an older version of April doesn’t work.

212. BulletInTheFace - January 11, 2013

Several things are certain–and, yes, I know there are those who will debate me on the “certain” claim since the film isn’t out yet, but what what I mean by “certain” is that anyone with any amount of common sense will realize that:

1) Cumberbatch is not Khan.
2) Cumberbatch is not April.
3) Cumberbatch is not Gary.
4) Cumberbatch is not Garth.
5) Cumberbatch is not Kodos.
6) Cumberbatch is not Janice Lester.
7) Cumberbatch is not Carter Winston.
8) Cumberbatch is not a Mugato.
9) Cumberbatch is not Picard.
10) Cumberbatch is not Seven of Nine.

The jury is still out, though, as to whether or not he’s the bastard offspring of a mutated tribble and Wesley Crusher’s orange sweater. I’m still not convinced that he isn’t.

213. Skulltrail - January 11, 2013

@210 LogicalLeopard

Yes man, i also think Clarke is playing Daystrom! :)

@211 Bulletintheface

Maybe Weller appears at the end of the movie or second half !

April is not such bullshit theory like Mitchell in my opinion! April has not be the first Captain of the Enterprise but he could have been the first Captain of the Kelvin! And in a Star Trek novel, April’s officer was George Kirk! In this novel there were romulan agents manipulate the ship flying to Romulan terrority! This could be easily changed with the klingons! But eugenic science is in this case very likely that he uses it to deage himself and his people …

214. Trek Thinking - January 11, 2013

Folks need to realize that Khan was just a name. Khan was not always Khan. The man named Khan was made up of many people. Just like John Harrison is a name. A ‘Plain Jane” name. To play “Devil’s Advocate” for a moment, let’s say BC is indeed Khan. This would not be information that I would release this early in the ballgame. Here is another thought…how do we know that what started as John Harrison may not eventually become Khan? We don’t know anything of Khan’s background except for the fact that he was genetically engineered. That he was alive during the Eugenics Wars, and that he ruled about 1/4 of the world in his time. How do we know that Weller is not an ealier “version” if you will, of John Harrison? How do we know that John will not undergo further genetic changes to become Khan? I would agree with the comments made by BulletInTheFace that BC is not any of the single individuals listed above. However, is it totally impossible that “John Harrison” is yet another stepping stone to becoming Khan?

215. Disinvited - January 11, 2013

#210. LogicaLeopard

Perhaps this might help you to evaluate Imdb:

Omid Zader is male. If 100s of years in the future they’ve reverted from the job title Traffic Enforcer back to Meter Maid this alt future has more problems than the writers imagined.

#189. The Last Vulcan

I think I can finger the confusion source for you:

IMHO stands for In MY…, it is not possible to paraphrase, i.e. reword the words of others, using IMHO because it’s still their opinion even reworded. You can however share someone else’s paraphrased opinion.

216. Skulltrail - January 11, 2013

I need your help my friends … I watched the scene where Kirk is flying in space through the debris … Is he flying to the ship which is crashing in to the bay?! At 1:13 of the Teaser Trailer I would say you the ship which has the same configuration like this of the bay … Right to Kirk’s shoulder!

217. Skulltrail - January 11, 2013

Something additional : i don’t see human in the cryo-tubes … I would say klingons if you see the nose and the forehead which is like the ones from TNG klingons but if not …. Definetly no human in the tubes !

218. dontcare - January 11, 2013

@184. JJ mentions Carol on the DVD special features, several times, and makes it clear he wanted her in the film. Same deal with the name of the ship George Kirk served on.

219. Jay Ley (Warrington, UK Trekker) - January 11, 2013

An interesting coincidence but Tom Hardy’s character in ‘This Means War’, which also starred Chris Pine is called John Harrison (its on his online dating profile in the movie)

220. Skulltrail - January 11, 2013

http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/6271/1357938419949.jpg
That’s the picture with the ship

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/2175/1357938527976.jpg
That’s the picture with “klingon forehead”

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/349/1357938597510.jpg
What’s that on the left side of the picture for a computer console theme?! TNG or JJ’s Federation style?

221. Curious Cadet - January 11, 2013

@177. Garth Faction,
“And Orci has admitted he has lied at least once..”

AND Orci has come onto this site to publicaly apologize for and clarify that lie was THAT HE LIED ABOUT LYING. In short, Orci flat out said, he never, ever lies, and that his one playful “joke” lie was in context of saying he lies (which he doesn’t). In fact he was so serious about it that he threatened to stop giving out information altogether over it.

Cumberbatch is Canon
Weller is NEW
Noel Clarke is NEW
Nanzeen Contractor is NEW
GATT is NEW

http://trekmovie.com/2012/07/14/exclusive-interview-roberto-orci-reveals-star-trek-sequel-character-details-talks-title-post-production/

ANYBODY who claims Otherwise at this point is LIBELING Orci.

222. Curious Cadet - January 11, 2013

@213. Skulltrail –
“April is not such bullshit theory like Mitchell in my opinion! …But eugenic science is in this case very likely that he uses it to deage himself and his people …”

This whole reverse aging thing with April is disturbing. Not because its not possible, but because some people think its likely.

And mainly because it sounds exactly like the plot of a particularly stupid first season TNG episode called:

Too Short A Season

Where admiral Mark Jameson (almost the same number of letters and pattern as John Harrison, and both end in “son”!!) who has obtained a drug from Cerberus II that reguvinates aged bodies. The plot involves a war torn planet out for revenge on Jameson, who only wants to vindicate himself, thus gaining sympathy for actions.

Combine that with “The Hunted” and you have all the elements you need to explain April as Harrison with the plot synopsis we’ve seen. We already know Orci took his story ideas for ST09 from TNG’s Nemisis, maybe he got his STID ideas from the TNG series.

223. Garth Faction - January 11, 2013

Curious Cadet

And yet, that just shows Orci is doing a Mudd lie; it’s all a clue that Mudd is in the film! I, Mudd nod!

224. MJ - January 11, 2013

@221. Well we will see when the movie comes out. While technically not a lie, I remember 2.5 years ago when he told us all they they were finalizing the script at a secret LA hotel location. Then it took 1.5 more years for the script to be completed. Was that technically a lie? No. Did it end up being untruthful? Yes.

Be careful about name-calling people as libelous here.

225. Phil - January 11, 2013

@202. Well, these boards exist for us to debate those plot holes. Mr. Orci was tasked to deliver a story for Trek 09 that the non-Trek fan could enjoy, and also to remain true to the vision of TOS. To that end, it was mission accomplished, plot glitches or no.

The problem I’m seeing with all this speculation about April, de-aging, and starships just popping in from different timelines is that the movie will be impossible to figure out. At this point it’s really much ado about nothing, the movie is still in post, meaning there will be some tweaks, and we have guys backwards writing scripts off the few images that have been released. It’s all fun and all, but it’s still nothing but speculation at this point…

226. Jack - January 11, 2013

“Be careful about name-calling people as libelous here.”

Wait, it that libel libel?

227. Curious Cadet - January 11, 2013

@223. Garth Faction,
“And yet, that just shows Orci is doing a Mudd lie; it’s all a clue that Mudd is in the film! I, Mudd nod!”

Haha. But seriously I would not rule that out at this point. Thinking back to the stasis pod scene — if That’s truly 6 foot tall Cumberbatch on the right, then the figure on the left towers over him, well above 6 feet. What I never realized until I saw an old episode of Dick Van Dyke is how tall Roger Carmel was. He towers over Dick, who is listed as 6’1″. Carmel is listed as 6’3″. Truly an imposing figure. Shatner must have stood on a lot of apple boxes when they had scenes together, because I don’t remember there being that much of a height difference.

So I do wonder if Harry Mudd couldn’t be in this, especially if it turns out to be Khan related. Someone suggested earlier Mudd might have discovered the Botany Bay, and rescued its contents for sale to the highest bidder. I would buy that as a plausible storyline. Mudd was a nasty character in Mudd’s women, he’s probably nastier in this post Nero universe. I could see him trying to chrat Harrison and getting killed in the process.

It certainly makes more sense than April reverse aging … But he’s not Weller, or Cumberbatch.

228. Garth Faction - January 11, 2013

Curious Cadet

I have thought there is a good chance ( 10% to me that’s a good chance) he is Mudd. And I do think Mudd would fit, whatever role we find Cumberbatch plays. Mudd can easily be one who sells arms to the terrorists, if nothing else.

229. Killamarshtrek - January 11, 2013

Gentelmen (and ladies of course),

There are still many uncertainties about STID. Harrison’s true identity (if he indeed has one), Peter Weller’s character name, whether Kahn is somehow involved to name a few. But today thanks to the evidence I have presented you with along with Drew McWeeny’s evidence at Hitfix we have one certainty. ROBERT APRIL IS IN THIS FILM and he will either own or wield (or both) the large gun Benedict Cumberbatch is seen using in the first trailer. If you cannot believe your own eyes, what can you believe in!

Quibble about who’s playing him and how he comes to be in it if you will, whether that be time travel (which I believe Orci has already stated he wouldn’t use, having used it in the last one), de-aging genetics or something else. But please don’t claim that April is not in the film – to do so at this stage would be highly illogical!!

230. Capt. Crash - January 11, 2013

After reading a lot of the commentary here about whether or not BC being John Harrison is really a mask for being Khan… I would like to branch off what @214. Trek Thinking – January 11, 2013, mention about John Harrison becoming Khan and that “Khan” was not necessarily the name given but the title honored to the man.

If we look at the name Khan in our own history its not a name of individuality – but a name of leadership. Quoting wikipedia:

“Kaan/Khan/ Kahn is an originally Mongol and subsequently Central Asian title for a sovereign or military ruler, widely used by medieval nomadic Turko-Mongol tribes living to the north of China. “Khan” is also seen as a title in the Xianbei confederation[1] for their chief between 283 and 289.[2] It now has many equivalent meanings such as commander, leader, or ruler. Presently Khans exist in South Asia, Central Asia, Eastern Europe and Turkey.

Originally khans only headed relatively minor tribal entities, generally in or near the vast Eurasian steppe, the scene of an almost endless procession of nomadic people riding out into the history of the neighbouring sedentary regions. Some managed to establish principalities of some importance for a while, as their military might repeatedly proved a serious threat to such empires as China and kingdoms in Central Asia.In imperial Persia, Khan (female form Khanum) was the title of a nobleman, higher than Beg (or bey) and usually used after the given name. At the Qajar court, precedence for those not belonging to the dynasty was mainly structured in eight classes, each being granted an honorary rank title, the fourth of which was Khan, or in this context synonymously Amir, granted to commanders of armed forces.

So is there a possibility that John Harrison becomes a “khan” by the end of the film (considering he lives and is not killed off)? Sure… therefore by changing his name based on his followers (the cryo’s seen in the film) are those he is set out to rule and save (per se’)? Thus, running on his egotistical, powertrip sense of terrorism against the Federation…becomes an eugenics leader named Khan.

231. Red Dead Ryan - January 11, 2013

#230.

Interesting!

232. Gary S. - January 11, 2013

229. what exactly is Drew MCweeny’s evidence?
I went to his site and I couldnt find anything.

233. Curious Cadet - January 11, 2013

@229 killamarshtrek,

All the circumstantial evidence presented so far only proves the producers may be paying homage to Capt. April. Nothing more.

234. Killamarshtrek - January 11, 2013

233. Curious Cadet

I see so as a treat to us ‘fans’, they chose to name a large gun (and it’s sound effects on their editing software) after a random ‘fringe’ cannon character who has nothing whatsoever to do with either the film or the plot!

As theories go that is pretty curious cadet!

235. KJ - January 11, 2013

@214 @230

I thought it was already canon that Ricardo Montalban’s character’s name was Noonien Singh (based upon Gene Roddenberry’s friend Kim Singh’s name), he was of Indian descent, and that “Khan” was the title he gave himself after he seized power in 1992?

236. Curious Cadet - January 11, 2013

@230 Capt. Crash,
“So is there a possibility that John Harrison becomes a “khan” by the end of the film (considering he lives and is not killed off)? Sure… therefore by changing his name based on his followers (the cryo’s seen in the film) are those he is set out to rule and save (per se’)? Thus, running on his egotistical, powertrip sense of terrorism against the Federation…becomes an eugenics leader named Khan.”

The use of “Khan” being a title has been brought up before. While interesting, I’m not sure what you’re getting at. The character from Space Seed is “Khan” Noonien Singh. Are you suggesting that John Harrison changes his name to “Noonien Singh” after his followers bestow on him the title of “Khan”, thus becoming the character from Space Seed?

Or are you suggesting Harrison changes his name to “Noonien Singh” in the same way Prince Albert adopted the name King George VI? Was this a practice for the Mongols/Central Asians too?

Or are you saying that he merely becomes “Khan” John Harrison, having no relation to Space Seed’s Khan? Are these cryo augments from the Botany Bay, if so what happened to the orginal Khan Noonien Singh?

I suppose I can accept that as an interesting twist, that the original Khan’s followers rescued from the Botany Bay, regardless of their ethnic background were indoctrinated in his traditional ethnic hierarchical nomenclature and would therefore bestow the same title on Harrison. This sort of confirms Harrison is able to rescue/revive the crew before the end of the film.

So are you saying Harrison is a member of Botany Bay’s crew, or another character from TOS canon? Either way the fact remains, he is not the Khan from Space Seed.

I do kind of like the idea that if it turns out to be a Botany Bay story, that in the end, Harrison turns to face Kirk and shouts, “My name is Khaaaaaaaaaan!!!”

237. Dunsel Report - January 11, 2013

@140: Yeah, I had the same feelings. Love Scott Bakula, appreciated what the creators were trying to do in trying to make Enterprise into a rousing adventure story, but it never quite came together for me. I never bought the human vs. Vulcan conflict the way I did the Kirk vs. Spock buddy cop stuff in the new movie.

I similarly thought the Admiral Archer’s Beagle line was goofy and didn’t do much for the movie. You know, in either the novelization or the original script, I can’t remember which, the story ends with the beagle materializing.

238. Craiger - January 11, 2013

I am starting to think Harrison is actually Khan. What if they show a flashback scene where the Klingons or someone else finds the Botany Bay and then Khan and the surviving members of his people awake and Khan is one that decides to join Starfleet and he hides his strength and other abilities until the time is right for him to strike. Maybe his people also join Starfleet or other positions around the Earth.

239. gigastazio - January 11, 2013

http://i.imgur.com/xFVDH.png

240. Craiger - January 11, 2013

Also what if Khan decides to alter his appearance and voice so they wont know he is Khan because if he applys to Starfleet Academy and if they have backround checks the database would know he was Khan.

241. NX01 - January 11, 2013

Trek Movie took the best images. You don’t have to watch the whole video.

242. K-7 - January 11, 2013

#224 (MJ to Curious Cadet) “Well we will see when the movie comes out. While technically not a lie, I remember 2.5 years ago when he told us all they they were finalizing the script at a secret LA hotel location. Then it took 1.5 more years for the script to be completed. Was that technically a lie? No. Did it end up being untruthful? Yes. Be careful about name-calling people as libelous here.”

I agree completely. I too remember the supposed hotel lock-in where Orci and the writing team were supposedly completing the screenplay; that turned out to be completely false. As MJ is suggesting, Curious Cadet should have more of an open mind that Orci may not have been fully forthcoming here on a variety of STID topics, and stop with the nonsense of saying people are committing libel.

243. K-7 - January 11, 2013

Anybody see this crazy news story about the White House rejecting a public petition for DOD to build a Death Star?:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/01/11/white-house-responds-to-death-star-petition-no/

244. Gary S. - January 11, 2013

How does anybody here know that Bob Lied about the hotel lock -In?
Maybe he simply misjudged how long the process would take.
If Del Toro was intended to be Khan, rewrites might have been neccessary .
Inaccurate?
Maybe, not neccassarily untruthful.
And if he lied about possible characters or plot points, I dont care .
After all, we are not supposed to know the plot of this movie.
Any deception about storylines Is intended to protect the film.
There is nothing wrong with that .

245. BulletInTheFace - January 11, 2013

#221: LOL. Did you really just accuse half the board of LIBEL?

Oh, man. It’s no wonder the rest of the world sees us as socially inept.

246. BulletInTheFace - January 11, 2013

#229: That’s not a certainty at all–it’s a far-fetched theory.

247. BulletInTheFace - January 11, 2013

#235: No, there is nothing in canon that says “Khan” is a title. Where’d you get that idea? In “Space Seed,” his name is given as Khan Noonien Singh. No one ever says anything about it being a title–either in that episode or in any other. And if it WERE a title, Kirk and company would be calling him “Noonien” or “Singh” in The Wrath of Khan, as they’d have no reason to respect him by using his title.

248. MJ - January 11, 2013

@246 @247

BulletInTheFace, thanks for bringing some sorely needed sanity back to these boards tonight. The Robert April thing and the Khan as title things are stabs in the dark at best.

249. Phil - January 11, 2013

@243. The Death Star petition story has been floating around for a while now. I’d give it another month or so before the White House pulls the plug on this whole ‘petition your gov’t’ thing because it seems to be doing nothing but attracting the fruits and nuts of society. I can understand the intention, but it reall hacks me off that tax dollars are being wasted on some idiots petition to build the Death Star…or the Enterprise, for that matter.

250. Nick - January 12, 2013

No conjecture here on who John Harrison might be, just a random idea to add to the mix …

Just thinking along the lines of the terrorist thing & the hint that we could have some sort of empathy for his motivations. Given the involvement of the Klingons & also a mind to Kirk’s prime universe anti-Klingon situations … perhaps JH is a mirror of this … would be interesting to have this new Kirk have to defend / protect the old foe against John Harrison (a kind of similar but flawed & manic version of ST3.-6 era Kirk)….?

Anyway, looking forward to May 2013, major work project will be finished & I can truly relax & enjoy my favorite continuing story at the flicks! :)

251. K-7 - January 12, 2013

#250. Maybe Harrison got tortured by a Federation security department. Something like “Holodeck torture” would be really controversial I would think — you don’t really physically hurt someone, but you totally mind-F**k them. The 23rd Century version of waterboarding.

252. Nick - January 12, 2013

K-7,

Could be. I’m kind of hoping that Star Fleet / Federation are relatively clean as per the great future as portrayed by Star Trek originally. Not to say that some rogue elements (federation covert group / section 31) wouldn’t do as you suggest …

Possibly the problem is a pragmatic decision to try & understand the Klingon mentality & invite them into the Federation ‘fold’ despite some atrocities of the past which are personal to / motivate Harrison.

To the side, I am hoping that John Harrison’s “persuasive/mental’ powers are more born of empathy than hypnotism or psychic mutant abilities in nature. That way I can understand & buy into the conflict.

Anyway, the Black Caps could sure do with Kirk, Spock or Harrison opening the bowling today (if anyone gets what I mean). The Boks are looking way too good! :Z

253. Disinvited - January 12, 2013

#238. Craiger – January 11, 2013

The only thing I can think to add is there already was a crewman in ToS names Singh:

https://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Singh_(Lieutenant)

and you’d have to wonder what that might add to Khan’s Starfleet secret identity discussion?

254. lilfa - January 12, 2013

@ 247. BulletInTheFace,
In Persian, and I would guess by extension Indian, Khan was a title given to lords; just as an earl or a duke whose country seat would have a town or a village attached to it and they’d be the lords of that place. This is the traditional sense, but in the olden times a Khan of a town or a village had a lot of influence and power, at times even absolute; and they would be addressed as the Khan sometimes followed by the name of the town. By later times, Khan became an honorary title, given to patriarch of families or powerful and respected people of the community, coming either before or after the actual name of the person. So it would seem they chose the name Khan Noonien Singh with all the above in mind, but as Khan would have more mystic, give him a sense of grandeur and menace and be less of a mouthful, I guess they decided to just go with that.

255. Killamarshtrek - January 12, 2013

This evidence here http://www.hitfix.com/motion-captured/a-day-at-bad-robot-gives-us-a-better-look-at-star-trek-into-darkness/3 alone is circumstantial because its here say. But along with this coroborating evidence from an entirely separate source http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q689/Killamarshtrek/Soundeffects_zpse61754ac.jpg which is photographic evidence that anyone can see with their own eyes, that makes it hard evidence. Look with your own eyes – Robert April is in this film!!

256. f5movies.com - January 12, 2013

movie download site that I like is the continuous updates f5movies.com

257. NCC-73515 - January 12, 2013

Killamarshtrek and I will celebrate when April appears :p

258. Jeff O'Connor - January 12, 2013

I’d like to formally second the belief that Peter Weller is not, in fact, Seven of Nine.

Thank you for your time.

Oh, and regardless of his identity, he is well aware that the secret sauce is really just thousand island.

If you zoom in closely enough on one of the tubes, you may find yourself staring back twenty years older, due to warp bubbles.

The April Gun effects regard Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles cameos. This is incredibly obvious because we already have photographic evidence that Harrison fights Shredder on Qo’nos.

Finally, to all those of you completely convinced Chris Pine is playing James T. Kirk, I ask you, why so certain? Wouldn’t it be interesting (not to mention much more profitable) to change his role to someone a bit more recognizable, like, say, John McClane? Just think about it — Die Hard is hugely successful, with a fifth movie on the way. And John is also Harrison’s first name, and McClane is Irish. You can’t deny the facts and claim to be proper Trekkies.

259. Curious Cadet - January 12, 2013

@234. Killamarshtrek,
“so as a treat to us ‘fans’, they chose to name a large gun (and it’s sound effects on their editing software) after a random ‘fringe’ cannon character who has nothing whatsoever to do with either the film or the plot!”

Did you see ST09? Do you know how homage works?

Do you recall Nero stranding Spock on a planet in close proximity to Vulcan named “Delta Vega” which had nothing to do with WNMHGB or Gary Mitchell? Or how about the Tribble thrown into Scotty’s lab on Delta Vega? And then there’s R2D2 floating in the debris field above Vulcan. Pike is in a wheelchair at the end of the movie, and wears a variation of Kirk’s admirals uniform from STTMP. The pilot’s seat in the Jellyfish is the IDIC symbol. Uhura orders a drink called “Slusho” in the Iowa bar, a reference to Alias and Cloverfield … And many more.

The bottom line is every Star Trek fan knows who April is, and using his name is a perfect Easter egg for these guys. And since Abrams originally wanted April to be the captain of the Kelvin, which was going to be called the Enterprise until the studio said “you can’t blow up the Enterprise”, April was fresh in their minds. And what do they give the name to? A big gun that blows up things! Moreover, April’s wife invented most of the medical devices in use on board the enterprise. Is it such a stretch to think April invented a few things himself?

April served as the first captain of the Enterprise from 2245-2250 and became an Ambassador at large for the rest of the career, during the time Kirk takes command of the Enterprise. So in this timeline, April is already well into his diplomatic career. The fact is April only reverse-aged because they were in a negative universe where time ran backwards. So which makes more sense … that they have taken an ontherwise beloved character and involved him in some kind of reverse aging technology scheme having nothing to do with his character, and approximating the ridiculed fountain of youth stories Abrams used in both Alias and Lost, which will only draw comparisons to Benjamin Button? Or, that the reference to April’s gun are one of the SC’s famous homages?

With these guys, anything is possible, but you are stating as fact that Robert April will be in this movie based on a single peice of evidence — a gun used by Harrison — which has a far more plausible and likely explanation. I mean the pro-Khan folks are making some pretty specious leaps too, but they also have more than a single peice of evidence on their side too.

260. boborci - January 12, 2013

RFK jr says JFK lone gunman theory suspect.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/12/assassination-of-jfk_n_2463184.html

261. thorsten - January 12, 2013

@260…
Cui bono, Bob. Was it the mob on their own to get rid of Jack, or where they used by someone else to get the job done? Like back in WWII when Naval Intelligence struck a deal with Lucky Luciano.

262. The Last Vulcan - January 12, 2013

260. boborci – I’m glad that someone from the family is finally admitting it.

263. Toothless Grishnar Cat - January 12, 2013

260. Bob, what would you say if I told you I had it on good authority that JFK died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound? I keed!

264. Disinvited - January 12, 2013

#259. Curious Cadet

It seems you are forgetting the alt universe sped up Kirk’s ascendance. They are actually in the timeframe of the start of Prime Pike’s captaincy and we have no idea if April in the alt universe captained/is still the captain of, any starship let alone whether an Enterprise was in his career or not, i.e. no indication his diplomatic career has started there.

265. dontcare - January 12, 2013

@264. Comparing the dates of Kirk’s career via Memory Alpha shows Prime Kirk joined Starfleet in 2250, and was made Captain of the Enterprise in 2264. NuKirk joined Starfleet in 2255 (around the same time Prime Kirk reported to the Lexington as a Lieutenant), and was made Captain in 2258. None of this is early in Pike’s career, as Pike Prime is listed as being captain from 2251 until 2262, when he was injured and put into the chair. Nothing shown about NuPike indicates any change in the dates of his promotion to captain, and none of this would impact the career of Captain April either as he is listed (at Memory Alpha) as being made captain in 2245, well before ANY James Kirk joined the Academy.

266. Dunsel Report - January 12, 2013

#260: I like RFK Jr., but he has also endorsed a bunch of questionable vaccine and Diebold theories.

267. Harry Ballz - January 12, 2013

@260 boborci “RFK jr says JFK lone gunman theory suspect”

Let’s be clear, in the video the children of RFK quote their father as saying, “members of the mafia may have been involved” in the assassination of JFK. Yes, they were involved, along with a renegade faction of the CIA, making that group the man power who committed the murder, not the people BEHIND the assassination. That was Lyndon Baines Johnson and his evil cronies (Mac Wallace, etc). They are the ones who orchestrated the whole thing.

That is not an opinion, that is a certainty!

Every piece of evidence leads back to Johnson.

I am convinced beyond a reasonable doubt!

268. Craiger - January 12, 2013

Bob, another reboot idea for you in addition to The Final Countdown, have you ever watched Airwolf?

269. Disinvited - January 12, 2013

#265. dontcare

I’ve already noted M-A’s limitations but lets go with your numbers.

Pike Prime had an 11 year captaincy before an injury (not old age) ended it. Even if April Prime’s captaincy was as brief it would have lasted into 2256, well past any Kirk’s Academy enrollment.

270. captain spock - January 12, 2013

while you guys/gals are bickering on who john harrison is an augment or khan .. relly i dont give a crap on who he is.. for me as long the movie is true to trek thats all i care about ..now you can go back to your bickering…..LOL
i want to let you know that i’m happy i can look behind seans of making this movie & get to see parts of bad robot i never saw before, all the hard work it takes to make a movie. get to see the people working hard working on this movie to make it a great film.see the thing they working on making intodarkness a good trek movie..
it fasanates me on how long it take to make a movie & how its done cool & the technogly they have.. just to make a movie is probly very very expensive. hopeing micheal puts the star trek theme in the music for this film like he did the last one..
i’m very much looking forward to seeing this movie in may to find how who cumby plays , i want to say thanks to all the people who work hard putting the movie together .

271. Killamarshtrek - January 12, 2013

259. Curious Cadet

Yes I know how homage works, for it to work it actually has to be referenced in the film as were the examples you quoted. So what do you think will happen here? Will the gun have a big sign above it saying ‘Robert April’s Giant gun’, will a character have a line saying something like ‘Isn’t that Robert April’s Giant gun?’ so we can all say to ourselves ‘they’re talking about the first captain of the Enterprise’!

And what would be the reason for it? Why pay homage to April with a gun? If we trekkers knew of him from ‘cannon’ as an infamous arms dealer then maybe it would make sense and we would all think ‘yeh, I see what they’ve done there’, but he wasn’t. If they were going to use his name to pay homage how about a ship called the USS Robert April? That would make sense!

No the only plausable reason for his name to be involved with a weapon would be because the writers have come up with a reason for him to do so in THIS film.

272. Curious Cadet - January 12, 2013

@269 Disinvited,

You are confused. Those aren’t dontcare’s numbers. It’s canon:

Prime April — born 2195. Oversaw construction of the Enterprise 2240s. Given command of the Enterprise at age 50 from 2245-2250. Federation Ambassador at Large 2251-2270+.

Prime Pike — took command of the Enterprise from 2251-2264. Promoted to Fleet Capt. 2264. A few years after that he sustained the injuries that confined him to the wheelchair.

Prime Kirk — born 2233. Joined Starfleet Academy 2250. Given command of the Enterprise 2264 following Pike’s promotion to Fleet Capt.

Alt Kirk — born 2233. Joined Starfleet Academy 2255. Given command of the Enterprise 2258.

So you see, Prime April would have already started his service as Ambassador at large before Kirk even joined the academy in either timeline. Prime April would have been 38 when Kirk was born/Nero arrived, presumably already in Starfleet, and 55 at the time Prime Kirk joined the academy, when he stepped down to be Ambassador at large handing the Enterprise over to Prime Pike. But, in the alternate timeline the Enterprise was not built in the 2240s, instead it wasn’t built until 10 years after it was launched in the Prime timeline. Since it took over 4 years to build the Enterprise in the alt timeline, Pike only got to command it once, before handing it over to Kirk in 2258 at which time April would have been 63! So Alt April was out of the picture entirely, by the time Kirk took command of the Enterprise.

273. James McFadden - January 12, 2013

Star Trek Phoenix looks promising. It could someday become a continuation of the Prime Universe. Star Trek Into Darkness looks more promising because it will be interesting to know what kind of future the Federation in the Alternate Reality will have. Will it be one of peace or will the UFP be bickering with another interstellar power from time to time? I am wondering what shape will the UFP be in in an Alternate Reality TNG. Starfleet technology might then be 50 to 100 years more advanced than what it is supposed to be as a result of Ambassador Spock and Captain Nero arriving in the 23rd century. Robert Beltran would look nice dressed up as a Romulan and Tom Hardy would look nice dressed up as an Admiral Picard.
I have an idea about rebooting other Trek franchises. If CBS Paramount makes enough money on Star Trek 12, it at least be a stepping stone to creating a few new 4-season AR shows (possible names mentioned below).
The popular names I have in mind are:
1. Star Trek Alternate Reality
2. Star Trek AR The Next Generation
3. Star Trek AR Deep Space Nine ?
4. Star Trek AR Voyager

274. BulletInTheFace - January 12, 2013

#273: I’m positive that CBS would never green-light a TV series with the title “Star Trek AR.” Not gonna happen.

275. Curious Cadet - January 12, 2013

@271. Killamarshtrek,
“No the only plausable reason for his name to be involved with a weapon would be because the writers have come up with a reason for him to do so in THIS film.”

Right, the ONLY plausible reason YOU can come up with is that 64 year old Robert April is actually in the movie.

How about if it’s his son William April!? Or just a character called April that isn’t related to canon, as an homage?

You realize Carol Marcus is a weapons expert in this universe … Maybe she designed the gun named after Admiral April, and TELLS us it’s an April gun.

Then again, did you see R2D2 or the Tribble when you first saw the film? I sure didn’t. Took me a few viewings on Blu Ray to find R2D2. There doesn’t have to be a big sign on it to identify it as April’s gun. There could be a very small sign that can only be seen when the picture is frozen on the Blu Ray. You do recall “Areyouthe1701.com” embedded on a single frame of the trailer?

Then there’s an inside explanation. The person who sketched the gun was named April. Both the casting director and a stunt player are named April.

These guys create names for important things in the movie they have to reference, and it’s either practical like the Jeffries tubes, or an homage they intend to make.

You’re turning a molehill into a mountain, based on a name of gun alone, most of which is hearsay anyway. You are so invested in this you can’t possibly entertain any other ideas.

I’m not saying Robert April couldn’t be in the movie, just that you have no conclusive proof of it at this point, and perhaps the least plausible explanation for it.

276. James McFadden - January 12, 2013

#274. Maybe a new 16-season TV series called Star Trek would be a possibility along with 8 or 12 more feature films. It is possible.

277. BulletInTheFace - January 12, 2013

#271–Killamarshtrek wrote
“No the only plausable reason for his name to be involved with a weapon would be because the writers have come up with a reason for him to do so in THIS film.”

That shows very limited thinking. There are MANY plausible reasons. That’s just one of many. A far more likely scenario is that this is no different than the mentions of Archer and Chapel in the last film.

278. Disinvited - January 13, 2013

#275. Curious Cadet

No, you are confused. I made it very clear I understood he got his numbers from Memory Alpha. But Memory Alpha has limitations on being the final arbitor of canon. Being internet oriented they don’t do a very good job of drawing on canon sources that are primarily on the physical shelf.

But again, using your M-A supplied stardates, Prime April was Captain of Enterprise in 2250 when Prime Kirk entered the academy.

279. Disinvited - January 13, 2013

#272. Curious Cadet

278 was meant to address your 272. Ignore my bringing stardates into this. I know we are dealing in years.

Just for giggles I checked with M-A and their dates don’t agree with your “canon” so I am at a loss as to your source. But it only serves to bolster my point that M-A has limitations in resolving canon.

280. Killamarshtrek - January 13, 2013

275. Curious Cadet

April’s son? Now you’re making sense, seeking revenge against starfleet or even Pike himself for the death of his dad ‘is there anything you wouldn’t do for your family’ – good call!

281. dontcare - January 13, 2013

@278 I did not say that Memory Alpha was an “arbitrator of canon” or anything of the sort. In the case of Prime Kirk and Pike though the dates it gives mach exactly with those in the big “Federation: The First 150 Years” book which is in fact the final arbiter of canon in this case. For Nu Kirk and Pike the dates can be obtained from the 2009 movie, Capt. Robau tells Nero the stardate is 2233.4, so early 2233 using the new timeline stardates, then Prime Spock tells Kirk that Nero waited for him for 25 years in order to make him watch the destruction of Vulcan, so 2258 when Kirk becomes Captain, and he joined the Academy 3 years before that so 2255. That i all really simple math though so I am sure you already knew those ones.

As far as the additional information that Curious Cadet gave for April, no it is not on Memory Alpha, but perhaps it is given in the animated episode where April appears, namely “The Counter-Clock Incident”, which could be checked by anyone with internet access and Netflix streaming service.

282. dontcare - January 13, 2013

Sorry, Robau told Nero the date was 2233.04, minor mistake on my part, but hey it’s 5 in the morning here.

283. The Last Vulcan - January 13, 2013

Les Moonves is a slimy greedy S.O.B. who would sell his own mother to Indian bus drivers for a rupee. He is a lifelong Trek hater who has changed his tune once he saw JJ Trek’s box office receipts so you can be sure that there will be SOMETHING on CBS soon to leverage the franchise’s newfound success. And, yes, I can assure you that it won’t have much of anything for the Trekker community, it will only be a money play to get ratings. So watch for a Star Trek that will be all hot 20somethings engaging in endless mating rituals and murder investigations in space. I think I’m gonna puke.

Oh, and BTW: Robert April (reverseaged Harrison) is in this movie and he’s played by Cumby. We’ll see if I’m wrong!

284. Craiger - January 13, 2013

#283 – Wrong. He liked the direction Enterprise was going but decided to cancel it based on the ratings. In todays TV its all about money and ratings.A new Trek TV series would have to pull in 10 million viewers or more every year to stay on the air. They cancel shows that are under 8.

285. The Last Vulcan - January 13, 2013

@284. Craiger – Who are you listening to, the CBS PR? Moonves despised ENT and wanted it off UPN let alone placing it on the Tiffany Network CBS. Grey and Moonves made the final decision to kill ENT as 2.8 million viewers are a drop in the bucket.

286. The Last Vulcan - January 13, 2013

Interesting little tidbit about Counter Clock Incident from Memory Alpha:

This episode was novelized by Alan Dean Foster in the book Star Trek Log 7. … the Aprils did elect to remain younger and, even after the negative universe was proven to be an alien fabrication, the Aprils were allowed to remain younger even though the Enterprise had not really left its own universe.

So… April remains young huh… velllly interestink….

How about this… the 130 year old April is aboard the SF-crashing-TNG-timeline ship and he tries to take it across the nova portal to make himself young again. He does that but on his way back ends up in the JJ-verse to find a Federation which he believes is evil because it is ______ (insert evil deed here). He takes over the ID of a JJ-verse Starfleet officer and goes off to wipe out the JJ-Federation. Here is your backstory to Cumby being April/Harrison.

287. Gary S. - January 13, 2013

If BCs character is somehow deaged , his youth could be connected to whatever cure he is offereing Clarke in the 9 minute preview .

288. Craiger - January 13, 2013

You forget that JJ wants the sequel to be just like Star Trek 2009 so anyone going to see the sequel would not have to know anything about the previous Trek series or movies. The general audience doesn’t know about Captain April and the Animated Series. Unless JJ would add some backstory on him in the sequel that wouldn’t take too long to explain. Allthough having Cumberbatch be April would be interesting because we don’t know what happens to him in the new timeline. Maybe April gets pissed that he didn’t get command of the Enterprise in the new timeline?

289. abhishek soni - January 13, 2013

Its simply awesome

290. Curious Cadet - January 13, 2013

@278 Disinvited,
“But again, using your M-A supplied stardates, Prime April was Captain of Enterprise in 2250 when Prime Kirk entered the academy.”

I’m happy to concede that M-A is not the “final arbitrator” of canon here. There is some strangeness between Pike and Kirk of about two years between 2262-2265 I more or less had to extrapolate about. Otherwise these are the numbers as generally understood as canon, source nothwothstanding.

But I must admit I am at a loss as to why this tiny overlap matters. April is 55 when Prime Kirk entered the academy in 2250, and 60 when Alt Kirk entered the academy in 2255. Prime Pike was definitely already the captain of the Enterprise in 2254 before Prime Kirk graduated from the Academy and before ALT Kirk joined. Clearly April has moved on to some other phase of his career by 2254 in either timeline, based on age alone, and certainly by the time Alt Pike was given the first command of the Enterprise in 2258 when April would have been 64! They promoted Kirk to admiral at 37 and indeed even Kirk retired at 60.

Indeed I am somewhat confused why we are did debating this at all. How does this make any difference as to whether April is in this particular movie per my original rebuttal to Killamarshtrek @ 259?

Bottom line here for me is this — Orci keeps claiming the Alt universe is “healing” itself. If that’s the case, assuming he’s actually alive, then even though Alt April never commanded the Enterprise, the idea his career didn’t follow along a similar path, i.e. a well respected, beloved good-guy figure with notable administrative and political skills, but instead he became an evil, embittered, bent on revenge and destruction of the federation, villain is simply implausible to me. I don’t see Orci going down this path.

In a related matter:

@283/286 THE LAST VULCAN,

First, Robert April was a highly regarded, decorated and recognizable Starfleet officer who would have been 38 when Nero arrived and started changing things. He could not take over the ID of John Harrison anymore than Khan could without a major makeover.

Second, why would Orci write a new Star Trek movie based largely on the plot of one of the worst, most convoluted first season episodes of TNG — “TOO SHORT A SEASON”?

This is the same reason I hope John Harrison is not an augment to avoid a retread of TNG’s “THE HUNTED”, though arguably that is a much better episode.

291. BulletInTheFace - January 13, 2013

Folks, this whole Robert April scenario is even more ridiculous and laughable than the previous Gary Mitchell, Khan and Garay Seven scenarios. You guys are out of your minds. There is a zero percent chance that the villain in this film is Robert April. It’s simply not even a possibility.

292. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 13, 2013

#252 – Nick

The Black Caps wouldn’t be those kiwi cricketers, would they? Oh dear….

Hi, all. How are you doing? I think OK – still on about Khan, I see…oh dear….

Talking of renewing kiwi mateship, I found an article called “Guarding the Universe” about Chris Pine and to quote a portion -

‘It also meant reviving his mateship with New Zealand’s own Karl Urban, who plays Dr Bones McCoy.

“I love Karl. I f***ing love Karl Urban. I really do. He has a tender place in my heart. Karl is the best looking geek on the planet. He is such a geek. And I mean that in the most loving way. All of us really get along because we are so different.”‘

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=10857301

The video about Bad Robot Production Company was really interesting. Thanks.

I suspect that there may have been two story outlines for the Star Trek sequel, which could be one of the reasons why writing it appeared to take so long. Both were greenlit by Paramount, with of them getting a bigger greenlight than the other. However, if there were problems with casting and/or other, they could fall back on using the other script. We don’t really know that there was necessarily any real problem with casting. It just did not work out for Benecio Del Toro – that’s all. Of course, I’ll probably never know if my suspicions are correct. Isn’t that right, Bob Orci?…:)

My hands are sore from typing this little bit, plus I am putting letters in the wrong order in a word sometimes. I’ve been away from computer etc for nearly three weeks – just enjoying sun, sea, sand and lovely drives through Auckland Waitakere ranges…:)) (Summer holidays here in NZ right now).

293. dontcare - January 13, 2013

@291. First, I am not part of the crowd that is stating he will be in the film, I was simply a neutral party providing factual information, as opposed to the random speculation and stupidity of various people. Second, no matter what my personal opinion on the matter, you have no more idea than I do ho or what is in this movie, for you to say anyone or anything is not in the movie is simply arrogance of the highest order, in fact your reminding me of that pain in the posterior “Keachik” and her endless rambling, nonsensical lectures.

294. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 13, 2013

#293 – I have made no comment to you or about you. My post above was the first on this site for 2013. For you to refer to me in this way was rude and uncalled for. It seems that you are not even able to spell my name correctly. What does that say about you?

Apologize!

295. dontcare - January 13, 2013

And I was talking about the crap you have spewed for over 2 years, so no I will not apologize, if I had thought you were still around I would have been much more rude. My not spelling your name right says nothing about me except that you aren’t important enough to me for me to bother knowing how to spell you dumba– name, as for you trying to order me to apologize to you, shove it up your a–.

296. Harry Ballz - January 13, 2013

“Well, I see we have a long way to go.”

297. Gary S. - January 13, 2013

296 well in the end ,Kirk and his crew united to save the Klingons.
I suspect when this movie is released we will come together to turn STID into a HUGE hit,
no matter who the villain is .

298. Gary S. - January 13, 2013

Welcome back Keachick!
Thats an interesting Theory about two story outlines,
Who knows ?
Maye Bob will tell us after STID is released.
Again, good to have you back.

299. Killamarshtrek - January 13, 2013

Obviously I can’t say with certainty who is in the film (except for those characters already confimed of course). When I say April (be it Robert or his son) is in the film then that’s my opinion, that’s what every comment (with the exception of Boborci) is on here, an opinion.

So the only thing that matters is who’s opinion do we give the most credence to? Now pretty much all of the opinions on here are based on supposition and hearsay, evidence which people have heard from somebody, trusted sources etc, none of which can be verified. To my knowledge, the theory about April is the only one which has any hard, tangible, varifiable evidence, there for everyone to see. That’s the only reason why I favour it. Not because I want him to be in the film, not because I think it’s a particularly smart move (though given the proper motivation it could be) and not because I don’t want the villain to be Khan, it’s purely because of the evidence and I can’t think of a reason why that evidence would be an homage.

Whoever it turns out to be I’m sure it’ll be amazing (as long as it’s not too much of a Skyfall rip off)!

300. Curious Cadet - January 13, 2013

@299 Killamarshtrek,
“To my knowledge, the theory about April is the only one which has any hard, tangible, varifiable evidence, there for everyone to see.”

What are you talking about? It’s the title “April’s Gatling Gun” listed on a sound effects database. The picture in the book is hearsay. So there’s about as much chance that that single reference in that sound library confirms John Harrison is, or is related to Robert April, as Carol Marcus being in the film confirms he’s Khan.

You are making a specious leap of logic with no other corroborating evidence. Harrison being Robert April is not supported by the synopsis, any film footage we’ve seen, nor anything stated in any interview.

Robert April, or a relative may be in the film in some capacity (the least of which is as Harrison), but so far there is absolutely no “hard, tangible, verifiable evidence” as you claim to verify that presence. There’s as much chance he will be in this film based on the single piece of “evidence” you present, which has been pointed out to you could have dozens of other explanations, as there is for anybody else who better fit with the numerous other clues.

301. Craiger - January 13, 2013

What if it turns out to be just John Harrison no alias at all? Funny, with all the secrecy that we aren’t even believing its John Harrison anymore.

302. Killamarshtrek - January 13, 2013

@300. Curious Cadet

Just to be clear I’m not saying Harrison is April, just that “April’s Giant Gun” listed on a BR sound effects database backing up the other (yes hearsay) evidence makes it likely there is a character called April in the film and that character is probably Robert April or a relative. What Carol Marcus & Khan have to do with it I don’t know!

As for it not being supported by the synopsis, any film footage we’ve seen, nor anything stated in any interview, I would agree with that ,but you could say that about every theory on here.

As I say it’s just my opinion with my reasoning for it. I’m just putting it out there to see who agrees with it & who doesn’t (I’m putting you in the latter group ‘Curious’). Which group can I put you in Boborci?

303. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 13, 2013

The only verifiable evidence I can see is that Benedict Cumberbatch is playing a guy who calls himself John Harrison!

So, dontcare, why do you even to bother to mention me? Names can have meanings, even pseudonyms. I don’t have to shove anything up to my… On the other hand, dontcare, perhaps you do!

Wow. What a way to start the year, having someone mention my name in vain. If you can’t bear what you describe as the nonsensical ramblings of people of like me (there are others who also do long posts which don’t make a lot of sense to me sometimes, but hey, what the hell), then perhaps this site is not the place for you to be. If you can’t say something nice, then it is best not to say anything.

Thank you, Gary. Exciting year this year – just 4 months and two days, according to my calculations, from STID coming to the big screen! Cool, ha?!

304. Red Shirt Diaries - January 13, 2013

@260 “Robert F. Kennedy Jr. said his father spent a year trying to come to grips with his brother’s death, reading the work of Greek philosophers, Catholic scholars, Henry David Thoreau, poets and others “trying to figure out kind of the existential implications of why a just God would allow injustice to happen of the magnitude he was seeing.”

Maybe God was tired of seeing JFK bang multiple skanks while he was President, and let down his beautifu wife andl family. Maybe God was insulted by the fraud known as JFK.

305. Killamarshtrek - January 13, 2013

This http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q689/Killamarshtrek/Soundeffects_zpse61754ac.jpg is tangible verifiable evidence that amongst Bad Robot’s bank of sound effects for STID they have 3 different sounds for ‘Aprils Giant Gun’, how you interporate that information is up to you. Yes it may refer to a gun only used after march & before may but I seriously doubt it!

306. Curious Cadet - January 13, 2013

@260 boborci,

WAIT!! Hold the train!!

I KNOW WHO JOHN HARRISON IS!!

He’s LEE HARVEY OSWALD!!!!!

His REVENGE is for being accused of killing Kennedy.

It’s so obvious. Did anybody ever see Oswald’s body after the Parkland doctor’s claimed he died? The real reason all those doctors who worked on Kennedy died suspiciously was not because they saw Kennedy’s real wounds, but because they knew Oswald did not die.

Oswald was put into a cryo-storage facility by the government shadow organization, where dozens of important people were kept. Forgotten about until the 2250′s and finally revived, now he’s out for justice!!

HARRISON LOOKS JUST LIKE OSWALD!!

And finally this … Gene Roddenberry’s first proposed storyline for the second Star Trek Movie (which we all know became the Wrath of Khan) involved the Enterprise crew going back in time to make sure the Klingons did not stop the John F. Kennedy assasination!! It’s ALL there! And why else would Bob Orci continue to go on and on and on and on about the Kennedy assination? Because it’s a clue!

The jig is up!!

307. Hat Rick - January 13, 2013

Cumby loses to a pensive Costner just now at the Golden Globes.

Costner very philosophical

President Clinton arrives!!

308. Gary S. - January 13, 2013

Very cool indeed Keachick.
STID is going to be the Summer Film to beat this year.

309. Disinvited - January 13, 2013

#281. dontcare

I’m sorry but you are wrong. Memory Alpha says Prime Pike ended captaincy of the Enterprise a year later than the one quoted from your book. Likewise, MA sys Prime Kirk took the Enterprise a year later than your book.

And in this particular case MA makes a rather compelling argument as for why this later date is canon.

310. Disinvited - January 13, 2013

#290. Curious Cadet

The reason it is important is Prime Pike didn’t stop being a Captain just because he turned the Enterprise over to Prime Kirk. Heck, Prime Kirk did even better than that as he did stop being a Captain but then returned to it.

My point being just because April turned the Enterprise over to Pike doesn’t equate to the end of his career commanding possibly another ship in starfleet. Maybe one of his own design with “BIG guns.” There’s enough play in the years of a canon where we old timers have been arguing for decades as to the exact length of Prime Pike’s “5 year mission” with no definitive answer.

311. boborci - January 13, 2013

304. Red Shirt Diaries – January 13, 2013

“Maybe God was tired of seeing JFK bang multiple skanks while he was President, and let down his beautifu wife andl family. Maybe God was insulted by the fraud known as JFK.”

—–

A convenient way to make yourself feel better about not doing a thing in response to the greatest crime in our history and one of the worst things to ever happen to the American people.

312. Curious Cadet - January 13, 2013

@310 Disinvited,
“My point being just because April turned the Enterprise over to Pike doesn’t equate to the end of his career commanding possibly another ship in starfleet”

I don’t really follow your beef with the Pike canon and how it applies to April.

Prime April’s canon is quite clear — he stepped down as Captain of the Enterprise at age 55 (whether Pike took immediate command or not is irrelevant), and for 20 years from 2250 to 2270 he served as a distinguished ambassador at large for the Federation. So it’s not likely he commanded any other ships.

We have no idea what Alt April did in the Alt timeline, but whatever it was it was the same until he was 38 in 2233. And by the time Alt Pike and Alt Kirk were given command of the Enterprise in 2258, Alt April was 63. Even Prime Kirk retired at 60. Whether Alt April commanded any other ships in this timeline, he did not captain the Enterprise. Obviously you could manufacture any story you wanted for Alt April to account for his actions from 2233-2259, but the fact remains in the Prime timeline Prime April most likely stopped commanding a starship altogether in 2250.

313. steve e - January 13, 2013

Has anybody notice that on the still image of Harrison standing between Kirk and Spock while in the brig, there is an unusual image/reflection on his right forearm which I cannot imagine to be just a simple reflection of the glass…I cannot expand it enough on my computer to see if there is anything to this…is anybody looking into this?

314. Disinvited - January 13, 2013

#285 The Last Vulcan

I can vouch for you on Moonves’ hate of Trek. In one interview he said he hated it and when asked why he explained that it was because he didn’t understand it and he doesn’t know how to make money out of programs he didn’t understand. In others he made it fairly clear he was pulling the plug on things he didn’t “understand” and he made no bones about what was at the top of that list previously.

This shouldn’t surprise any that know CBS’ history and of Paley’s pique that lead to the end of many successful comedies with collateral damage to others.as well.

315. dmduncan - January 13, 2013

Bob, as one creative to another, how could you possibly AVOID doing a JFK project? It is clearly where you are, man. It should be done, and in a way that tells people WHY it is important because there are those who evidently don’t get it — but maybe who could.

316. Disinvited - January 13, 2013

#312. Curious Cadet

Obviously, my whole point is this claim about canon “lockdowns” is dubious at best. First, we’d have to deal with Roddenberry saying TAS was NOT canon. Then we’d have to determine what formula TAS used for generating stardates…

But I think we can agree, this sequel can make what they want of TAS canon or NOT. In times of war that exact extreme casualties as Nero did, it is not unusual to delay retirements and extend lengths of service. Besides the whole point of THE COUNTERCOCK INCIDENT was that Starfleet’s mandatory retirement policy be reevaluated.

317. dontcare - January 13, 2013

@309 No offense Disinvited, and no slight to you or Curious Cadet, but I am done. I was only commenting here cause Keastick was gone, if she is back I am gone, cause I am not going to deal with that crap.

And Kea, the link below shows what I think of you in terms I think even you can understand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmKHHdqwVes

318. Harry Ballz - January 13, 2013

306 Curious Cadet “He’s LEE HARVEY OSWALD”

Sorry, CC, they already did that story in an old Legion of Superheroes comic.

315 dmduncan “Bob….how could you possibly AVOID doing a JFK project?”

Boy, do I have the perfect script for Bob. A sci-fi thriller called THE GRASSY KNOLL.

It explains why, when all those witnesses ran up the grassy knoll to catch the shooter, there was nobody found behind the stockade fence.

319. Curious Cadet - January 13, 2013

@307 Hat Rick,

I can’t believe Costner won for a warmed over Dances With Wolves performance over Cumberbatch for Sherlock. Hopefully that means they will rectify this slight next year for Star Trek.

320. The Last Vulcan - January 14, 2013

@314. Disinvited – +1. When you shake hands with Moonves (as I have) check to make sure he didn’t palm your wedding ring. He has to be the ultimate example of how being a slimeball can result in a high-earning C-suite career. Moonves is a fundamentally ignorant and totally abrasive egoist and it’s a testament to great producers that CBS is still in business with him at the helm. He literally makes me sick.

@318. Harry Ballz – Come on, everybody knows that JFK was caught in the crossfire between T’Mir and the Vulcan security forces who had come to Earth to keep her from selling more advanced tech like Velcro. :)

As for all the questions about April, the latest iteration of the plot the way I’ve outlined it is IMHO the way it is and I’ll stick to it until any more hard evidence surfaces which causes me to re-evaluate!

321. MJ - January 14, 2013

@311. Sheesh Bob, while the assassination of JFK was tragic, it certainly doesn’t rise to the level of the Civil War WWII, the Revolutionary War, slavery, women’s sufferage. I think we’ve been through this, but a lot of objective people do not think that JFK would have done much different than LBJ in Vietnam; RFK himself indirectly said so.

322. Ralph Pinheiro - January 14, 2013

After all, what can resolve this discussion about he being April, Khan, Mitchell is whether Cumberbatch’s character is canon or not .

Was Orci telling the truth about the character Cumberbatch be canon?
Could Harrison be a pseudonym of a canon character?

323. Disinvited - January 14, 2013

#319. Curious Cadet

Well they are the Hollywood Foreign Press so maybe their sensibilities are different.

Or possibly a case of familiarity unfairly breeding contempt?

324. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 14, 2013

I am not commenting here because there is not much new to say at the moment.

As for dontcare, I am wondering if this poster is jerking off or something posting that link. It was unwarranted. Ever heard of a boomerang? You never know…

(Is that too much nonsensical rambling for you? I mean, do I always have to connect all the little dots?…)

325. RaveOnEd - January 14, 2013

I’m curious why all this detail about April is being considered “canon”, when the only canonical information about April is only in an episode of TAS and nothing else?

A book and a website are not canon, folks. If it didn’t appear in any series or movie, it isn’t canon.

326. msn1701 - January 14, 2013

I really wanted Cumberbatch to win a Golden Globe for his role as Sherlock in the BBC version :( At least he was there representing Trek. He looks like such a nice guy in RL I am having trouble thinking of him as the villain but I know he can pull it off.

327. ME!! - January 14, 2013

(Yawn) Hunh? What? Oh, I’m sorry…I thought the site might have been updated by now. Pardon me. Wake me when there’s some real news.

328. Gary S. - January 14, 2013

I suspect the site will get a refreshing of news soon a, and most likely it will be something JJ said!
And for what it’s worth Keachick,
I clicked on dontcares link to you.
Not classy, not classy at all.

329. The Last Vulcan - January 14, 2013

@324. Rose (as in Keachick) – If it counts, I still like you! (In a very platonic way so I don’t have to fear my wife reading this) :)

@325. RaveOnEd – That’s the beauty of using April. Every Trekker knows him as “The Elder Statesman/Captain” but there is no restriction on how you tell his story as there frankly isn’t much of any. April is a blank slate, HOWEVER he does provide boborci & co. with a character who has an immense influence on Kirk, Spock and the others. Imagine if you were a current day Army Captain and you could come face to face with McArthur or Patton. No matter how much you might disagree with whatever policy they were currently executing you would be in awe of them. And that’s PRECISELY what boborci et al. have crafted. There are countless quotes from the production and cast that Harrison/April believes he is completely justified and correct in his actions and that’s what makes him such an effective terrorist as well as creating the dramatic schism in Kirk. Does he obey Starfleet orders or side with the great Robert April?

330. Disinvited - January 14, 2013

#320. The Last Vulcan.

Preaching to the choir. But I can’t say it isn’t nice meeting someone here who might give my contention a fair consideration, instead of open derision, that while the Viacom/CBS Trek partnership might be shaking hands for PR photos, their not visible other hands are holding daggers.

331. RaveOnEd - January 14, 2013

@329 – I agree with you completely! In fact, I think it was Damon Lindelof who had mentioned about honoring things in Trek past in the movies they will be doing, and my thinking is that this could honor a part of Trek folklore by having Robert April in it!

I was just curious in some of the posts mentioning a very detailed history of April, and saying it was canon. Almost all of that information isn’t canon. We know he was an Ambassador and he was not only there when Enterprise was being built, he was her first commander in the Prime universe (per TAS), but that’s about it.

I still think that this movie will employ elements of the book “Heart of Darkness”, and quite possibly have Robert April in it.

332. Disinvited - January 14, 2013

#325. RaveOnEd, and #329. The Last Vulcan

Exactly my point, Ed. Thank you.

Vulcan, to paraphrase Ms. Field “You get me. You really get me.”

333. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 14, 2013

#304 – It bothers me when people talk about a politician’s or other’s sex life as if it were their business. It is not! It is also interesting that media, people in general will go on about any sexual indiscretions of a politician or other, while at the same citing his wife/family as being let down and distressed. No doubt the spouse does feel let down and distressed by their spouse’s extramarital activities, but it must be even more distressing and embarrassing for that spouse and any children to have media and general populous constantly commenting on what is basically a private matter between the couple and can only be dealt with by the couple in a manner that works for that particular couple. It is their marriage, nobody else’s.

#311 – Worst crime in American history? Really? Surely, a US President’s decision to order the dropping of atomic bombs on not just one Japanese city, but two (Nagasaki and Hiroshima) could be considered a crime, a war crime – I think the jury is out on that… There are no doubt many other examples of *crimes* committed by those in power.

The only way I can fathom what you mean, Bob Orci, by your statement is that assassinating a democratically elected official like the President of the United States or democratically elected person any other sovereign nation is that it is not only an obvious crime against the person murdered, but also against the people of that nation. Presumably, in fair and properly run elections, the majority vote rules, which means that most of the people chose that person to represent them for a specified time period and for someone to murder their representative is a major “flip of the bird” to that country’s population. It is a big “f*ck you” to democracy and the electoral system that allows ordinary people to have some say in how they want their country to be run, for better and/or worse.

Bob Orci – I hope my rambling here makes some sense to you at least.

334. Ralph Pinheiro - January 14, 2013

Lidelof SFX 231: “”When I saw Wrath of Khan, I hadn’t seeing ‘Space Seed’, I didn’t know who this guy(Khan) was – he told me who he was. So I was able to get that coming in cold.

Our job is, if we’re bringing somebody in from classic canon, we can’t treat it like you’re supposed to know them. They have to tell us who they are.”

If he is a canon character, he can be shown in a different way, and identified his origin gradually.

335. Curious Cadet - January 14, 2013

@329
“That’s the beauty of using April. Every Trekker knows him as “The Elder Statesman/Captain” but there is no restriction on how you tell his story as there frankly isn’t much of any.”

I completely agree Robert April is a great character to expand on in the alternate universe. Except there’s no proof he’s in the movie, and if they don’t adhere to the canon we do have (i.e. Rodenberry saying TAS was not canon) then April is just a name.

Orci says the universe is healing itself. So far they have not shown us any character that has deviated significantly from their original Prime path. Having April become anything other than a respected statesman would be the first. And Jack Torrence, Hannibal Lechter, and the Joker all rolled into one is as far away from Prime April as you can get. And if that’s the case, then the character is not canon, just the name (and there are some fans who will take Rodenbery’s position that April is not a canon character at all).

April would be 64 at the time this movie is set. Therefore he can’t be Harrison. Unless he reverse-ages. In which case, we might as well call him Admiral Benjamin Button. And there is absolutely no evidence to suggest there is any kind of reverse aging in this movie. Even if there were reverse aging, if April is a respected military man as you suggest, he was 38 when Nero changed things. It would be impossible to change his identity to Harrison without being recognized unless he also had some “Face Off” plastic surgery, as every cadet would know his appearance from the textbooks.

Now I’m not trying to change your mind. you can believe anything you want. However, what you are basing this whole convoluted plot line on is a single peice of evidence that hasn’t even been reported by Anthony on Trekmovie — and Anthony has said time and again, if there were any legitimacy to a story then Trekmovie would report it. And how is it Anthony didn’t see this book with the sketch when he was at Bad Robot? When I Google “April’s Gatling Gun” I only get the one article by Drew McWeeny reprinted across various sites. That’s one man’s account! And I don’t even know what his credentials are. Was he even really there? So then along comes this Avid video with supposed confirmation of “April’s Gatling Gun”. So I go download the video and step through it frame by frame, and what do I see?

A**** Big Gun … The first word is completely distorted!

It’s not even clear the first word is “April”. It looks more like “Anvil”. But even if it is “April”, it’s NOT “April’s”. And it definitely DOESN’T say “Gatling” — it says “BIG”. That fact alone completely discredits Drew McSweeny’s story. “Gatling Gun” is a very specific type of gun and never made any sense anyway, as the weapon Harrison is seen using is hardly hand-cranked with rotary barrels.

Moreover, there is no longer any argument that the gun belongs to anybody. Without that apostrophe “s”, Indeed it is no different than Gatling Gun, named after it’s inventor, not the personal gun of a soldier named Gatling.

So, believe what you want, but I don’t see a SINGLE shred of evidence to support John Harrison being Robert April.

336. Phil Baiden - January 14, 2013

From Bob Orci’s posting of material relating to JFK’s assassination I did a web search for “John Harrison President Assassination”.

Turns out the first US president to die in office was William Henry Harrison. He died of pneumonia but there has been some questioning as to whether he was assassinated.

William had a son. Named John. John Harrison.

So, here’s my theory. John’s dad was the Federation president. He’s killed early on in the film. John goes nuts trying to get revenge. We’re tempted to side with him because his dad was killed by dodgy elements in the Federation, who are leading it away from where it should be.

How this fits with offering to help a dying girl, or a trip to Vulcan, I have no clue.

Also the full name of the historical John Harrison was John Scott Harrison. John Scott is the name of a character from Fringe Series 1 so there’s a possibility that it’s just a placeholder for another name.

337. Phil Baiden - January 14, 2013

Obviously meant to say Kronos, not Vulcan.

338. Curious Cadet - January 14, 2013

@336. Phil Baiden,
“How this fits with offering to help a dying girl, or a trip to [Qo'noS], I have no clue.”

Excellent theory.

As for the girl, we may all be reading too much into that. She is a means to an end, to get the codes, or whatever he needs from Noel Clarke. He may not even actually cure the girl in the end, or even have the means to.

As for Qo’noS, if John Harrison is unable to get the evidence he needs to expose Starfleet for the assassination of his father, he may be taking the Al Capone tax evasion approach, to expose and bring down Starfleet by some kind of Iran/Contra Klingon black-ops operation he is aware of, perhaps from Noel Clarke. Or he could just be going to seek the help of the Klingons who try to double cross him.

In the end, he may just resort to brut force to have his revenge when justice is not served.

We still have that pesky canon issue to address however. So I’m not sure how a guy named John Harrison, being the son of another Harrison can be from canon, unless it’s his mother who is president (using her professional name). Perhaps she is the person being shot by the phaser blast in the trailer, and the scene of Harrison jumping through the glass is not connected in any way.

339. Disinvited - January 14, 2013

#336. Phil Baiden

Given that the name popped up in Pine’s other movie, placeholder is plausible. I just wonder why I haven’t heard of it before?

340. bardicjim - January 14, 2013

http://m.mtv.com/news/article.rbml?id=1700140&weburl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.mtv.com%2fnews%2farticles%2f1700140%2fstar-trek-villain-benedict-cumberbatch.jhtml&alt=http%3a%2f%2fm.mtv.com%2fnews%2findex.rbml&cid=300

khan?

341. Gary S. - January 14, 2013

336 Nice theory, but, Harrison gave his inagural address during one of the coldest days of the year without a coat.
That is how he caught pneumonia.
That is how he died.

342. Curious Cadet - January 14, 2013

@341 Gary S.,
“Harrison gave his inagural address during one of the coldest days of the year without a coat. That is how he caught pneumonia.”

Yes, that’s right, because pneumonia is caused by cold weather.

http://nfbenton.com/archives/2541

343. Jack - January 14, 2013

341. That’s not how you catch pneumonia, contrary to my mom’s constant refrain.

344. Dee - lvs moon' surface - January 14, 2013

So the favorite phrase of Cumberbatch in Into Darkness is … “I can help you” … yes I agree he said that beautifully dramatic … but my favorite moment in that video (9mins) … was seeing Kirk, Bones and Sulu … yes and also Uhura … all with wetsuit on the bridge of the Enterprise … awesome!

Thank you, boborci … for having put Chris Pine in that “mortifying” situation … I loved it … lol

Keachick Hello … Good to see you here again! Happy 2013!

;-) :-)

345. Jack - January 14, 2013

344. Dee -… “but my favorite moment in that video (9mins)…”

You saw it on video? On the Internet? Is it out there?

BTW. I enjoy your posts. I’ve always wanted to ask — what does your posting name mean?

346. Gary S. - January 14, 2013

Fair Enough.
I did some research .
The inaugural story wasnt true.
Harrison caught a cold.
It worsened .
It turned into Pneumonia and finally,Pleurisy.
That is how he died.

347. Curious Cadet - January 14, 2013

@344. Dee,
“So the favorite phrase of Cumberbatch in Into Darkness is … “I can help you”

That’s new information isn’t it? We’ve heard “I can save her”, but “I can help you” is like a general catch phrase … It’s disturbingly reminiscent of Sybock’s “I couldn’t help but notice your pain” line throughout TFF.

348. Phil Baiden - January 14, 2013

@346 Gary S.

There’s no doubt that Harrison died of pneumonia/pleurisy.

But some have theorised that he was assassinated.

And there’s no doubt he had a son called John Scott Harrison. John Scott and John Harrison are names associated with Orci-written projects. Boborci’s been posting about the JFK assassination.

The plot of STID could be something to do with a son avenging the assassination of his father. (“Is there nothing you wouldn’t do for your family?)

This theory has as much to commend it as any theory that puts forward April, Mitchell or Khan. i.e. Total supposition on very little evidence.

Long may it continue!

349. Dee - lvs moon' surface - January 14, 2013

347. Curious Cadet…

lol… I bet he was thinking… “I can save her” and said “I can help you”… or so Harrison “can” a lot… +lol

350. Dee - lvs moon' surface - January 14, 2013

Ok guys I just saw the 9 mins… and there he was saying “I can save her” not “I can help you” … anyway, I doubt he was giving a tip … Cumberbatch is always joking with this reporter from MTV!

;-) :-)

351. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 14, 2013

#339 – Which name appeared in another Chris Pine movie?

352. Curious Cadet - January 14, 2013

@346. Gary S.,
“That is how he died.”

If you believe that, then boborci has some swampland to sell you.

Click that link I supplied. At a minimum he died because of malpractice. Most likely the doctors were motivated to assist his deterioration.

I would go so far as to say no president has died in office of “natural” causes, but rather each was an assassination by conspiracy motivated solely for political gain.

353. Dee - lvs moon' surface - January 14, 2013

345. Jack

Regarding the codename of my internet persona … “Dee lives on the surface of the moon” … is something like this … it’s a long story … but I swear it has to do with the young Captain Kirk … ;-) :-)

354. Disinvited - January 14, 2013

Are we absolutely sure it isn’t, “I Khan, help ewe.”?

355. Disinvited - January 14, 2013

#351. Rose

Commentors here have been reporting the name “John Harrison” appears on a computer screen where Pine is sitting in one of his recent movies.

I haven’t seen it. However, I do wonder if maybe he was looking at an electronic edition of his script for trek sequel between takes. I doubt it because I’m pretty sure printed scripts are used. But if 2D can be converted to 3D for no other reason but studio greed, who knows what might be tried?

356. Gary S. - January 14, 2013

348.
The Harrision/BC theory is possible.
But where did he go ?
“I have returned to have my vengeance”.
Was he part of Starfleet ?
The synopsis suggests a threat from within Starfleet.
Another possibilty could be that Bob named him Harrison as a kind of conspiracy easter egg .
If they could pay homage to April by naming a gun after him ,
They can do the same thing with Harrisons name .
Its also possible Bob named him after Harrison because something in Harrisons life mirrors the characters life or actions .
It might be a good idea to look at Harrisons Biography ,Presidency and all.
Oh, and you might want to pick up The Fifth Assassin By Brad Meltzer
It is a story that links the four Presidential Assassinations to one gigantic conspiracy that is ongoing.
I am probably going to buy that one myself .

357. Gary S. - January 14, 2013

Oh,
I am curious how do you assassinate someone with Pneumonia and Pleurisy?
A little early in our history for Biological warfare dont you think?

358. Curious Cadet - January 14, 2013

@351 Rose,

John Harrison is the name of Tom Hardy’s character in “This Means War” with Chris Pine.

@357 Gary S.,

The implication is that the would be assassins took advantage of the situation and bribed the doctors, or the doctors were willing accomplices aligning themselves with the political views of the conspiracists. Instead of curing him, they exacerbated his condition. Had he survived the pneumonia, he most likely would have still been the first president assassinated in office by other means.

This exact same method was used only a few years later in the assination of Zachary Taylor, though in that case he was likely intentionally exposed to cholera.

As for too early in our history for biological warfare … You are aware that as early as 1763 the British attempted to infect the Native Americans they were fighting with smallpox infected blankets?

359. NFLX - January 14, 2013

Guess I’ll check back in a week or so.

360. nx-2000 - January 14, 2013

So far, so good, but I just have one thing that I want to say again.

Orci, Kurtzman, Abrams, if you’re listening: PLEASE stop using filming locations to do starship interiors, ESPECIALLY shuttle bays and engineering. It. Just. Doesn’t. Work. Federation naval architecture is supposed to have a certain structure to it. The Long Beach generator and the Budweiser brewery were epic failures in that regard.

361. porthoses bitch - January 14, 2013

could Gatt2000 actually be gatt 2000 as in Gatt in the year 2000 and someone else is Gatt in the year 2382? And the description of gatt with the light behind his head is a borg regeneration chamber.

362. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 14, 2013

In the movie This Means War, Tom Hardy played Tuck Henson. I think Tuck is short for Charles? Chris Pine’s character, FDR Foster in TMW, was often working at his CIA computer station but I don’t recall seeing the name John Harrison. The other movie I’ve seen Chris Pine in was Unstoppable where he played a railway worker. Some computer screens could be seen sometimes but he was never working at one. Again, I do not recall seeing John Harrison name. These two movies were 20th Century Fox films with different writers and production crew.

The only movie I have not seen, unfortunately, is People Like Us. Perhaps that is the film people are thinking of because it was written and produced by Alex Kurtzman and Bob Orci – those two names should ring a bell or two around here. Chris played the main character, Sam Harper.

363. Dee - lvs moon' surface - January 14, 2013

Tuck is John Harrison? … Gosh… How I never knew that? … and… How boborci knew that? … hahahah … I can not believe it!

;-) :-)

364. Tom - January 14, 2013

Anthony, you fall off the radar again?

Update your site.

365. Dee - lvs moon' surface - January 14, 2013

#362. Rose (as in Keachick)

I also do not remember seeing anything about “John Harrison” in PLU!

;-) :-)

366. Nick - January 14, 2013

Hiya Keachick, yes the Black Caps … my eternal optimism is being tested :Z

Happy new year to everyone, a big year ahead!

367. Disinvited - January 14, 2013

#362. Rose

According to Imdb Trivia, in THIS MEANS WAR Tuck’s on screen dating service name is John Harrison.

368. Jack - January 14, 2013

345. Thanks! My name also has something to do with the youn… okay, it doesn’t, really. ;).

Oh, and hello to Rose. Nice to see you back.

369. Disinvited - January 14, 2013

For those looking for an April motivation, recall that he was a happily married man. Maybe something happens to his wife?

370. Curious Cadet - January 14, 2013

@362 Rose,

Have you actually drawn these details from watching the movie?

Otherwise, the Tom Hardy fan site lists that Tuck’s last name was never given, but his online dating profile was John Harrison

http://www.tom-hardy.co.uk/career/filmography/film-roles/this-means-war/

As for the Supreme Court having seen it, well … It’s a movie with their star Chris Pine. So who knows, Pine may have come up with the name himself, or any of dozens of Hollywood insider connections between both movies.

But at the end of the day, it only means one thing. Hardy was the villain in a Star Trek movie, and the name John Harrison was used by him in a movie which co-starred an actor playing the current Captain of the Enterprise. And the homage gang at Bad Robot are paying homage. All sorts of connections could be made based on Hardy’s role in Nemisis, but like the alleged “April big gun”, it’s probably a dead-end.

371. Jack - January 14, 2013

364. Update it with what? The only new stories right now are versions of the same Abrams interview.

372. Dee - lvs moon' surface - January 14, 2013

Hey Keachick!

Look this… Tuck is johnharrison30… this is from my DVD… I can’t believe it LOL

http://i.imgur.com/nD5VH.jpg

I doubt this has anything with ‘Into Darkness’… no way… so funny!

;-) :-)

373. K-7 - January 14, 2013

Red Shirt and MJ,

I could not agree more with your JFK comments. One of the most overrated presidents of all time, and a complete fraud in terms of the supposed “Camelot” legend. The guy was a staunch Cold Warrior, who took major national security risks such as Viet Nam and Cuban Missile Crisis, and only gave lip service to Civil Rights. His presidency would have ended in corruption, just like Nixon’s, had he not been assassinated.

374. BulletInTheFace - January 14, 2013

#335: Roddenberry didn’t say the cartoons weren’t canon. He counted them as part of the story. It was his assistant, Richard Arnold, who called the shots while Gene was getting increasingly sick, who arbitrarily decided one day that the cartoons don’t count. That has since been overriden, given that (a) Arnold was eventually fired, (b) TNG referenced Spock’s youth from Yesteryear and (c) the 2009 film had actual dialog from that animated series in it.

375. Jack - January 14, 2013

Is it true that the Cuban missile crisis was never quite as close a call as is imagined by popular culture…

376. K-7 - January 14, 2013

#375 Nope, not true. It was actually more dangerous than the media reported.

377. Mel - January 14, 2013

I just read the 2nd Starfleet Academy book named “The Edge”. It is about some Starfleet cadets using gen therapy to improve themselves illegally. At the end of the book one of the characters in the book (Monica Lynne) talked about how one cadet gave her the tip, where she can get that gen therapy. Maybe John Harrison is that guy or another one, who used that gen therapy. The people who got that gen therapy weren’t revealed to the law authorities, because of Kirk’s actions. He helped to hide their illegal activity.

378. boborci - January 14, 2013

375. Jack – January 14, 2013
“Is it true that the Cuban missile crisis was never quite as close a call as is imagined by popular culture…”

I certainly don’t think so, when you have General Curtis Lemay and others vocally advocating a pre-emptive first strike!

379. boborci - January 14, 2013

373. K-7 – January 14, 2013

Amazing how uninformed you guys are. Sad. You gotta read more. And I don’t mean TIme or NewsWeek.

380. Harry Ballz - January 14, 2013

Any of you criticizing the JFK administration, and believing Oswald’s guilt, should read three books……

Anthony Summer’s Conspiracy, Jim Marr’s Crossfire and James Douglass’s JFK And The Unspeakable.

Take the time to read those three books, then come back here and post an INFORMED opinion.

381. Mel - January 14, 2013

In depth discussions about JFK aren’t really on topic on a Star Trek fansite. There are so many other places on the internet, where it is more appropriate. So why bring him up again and again? It gets tiresome.

382. boborci - January 14, 2013

381. Just cuz there was a relevant breaking news item yesterday about it.

383. Tom - January 14, 2013

371, The job of site developers is to keep the content fresh and updated even in slow news cycles. There are a few stories out there on other Trek websites.

There’ll also other features that the site can put forth to keep the audience engaged. Otherwise a developer risks audience attrition.

I should know. I ran a pretty popular podcast, but my infrequent production schedule killed my show.

384. Mel - January 14, 2013

@ 382 boborci

Relevant to Star Trek?

385. Harry Ballz - January 14, 2013

384.

Well, sure, how can we ever reach the enlightened age of Star Trek if we are denied the truth of our history?

Not to mention, Kennedy and Trek are both from the ’60′s. Mellow out, man!

386. GG - January 14, 2013

Ok, how about this theory..

He’s Khan.. BUT, the Botany Bay was revived by another ship, and Khan changed his own name to “John Harrison”, and actually joined and infiltrated Starfleet? That way, they could do a Khan story, and not have to call him Khan before the movie comes out and spoil it. They could hide his identity from us, and call him John Harrison without having to lie to us, because that’s what HE calls himself. Maybe he changed his own name to hide himself?

Ok, I don’t REALLY think this. The idea just popped into my head, and I thought it was a fun idea.

387. Harry Ballz - January 14, 2013

BOB ORCI

C’mon, Bob, honestly, wouldn’t a JFK assassination movie, if done right, be a money maker?

A fast paced thriller that rolls right along to a “smack-in-the-face” climax!

Look at Titanic. People knew the outcome, but wanted to see HOW and WHY it happened.

I, for one, think it would find a sizeable audience.

388. Gray Ghost - January 15, 2013

#375

Re: Cuban Missile Crisis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Arkhipov

389. Phil Baiden - January 15, 2013

John Harrison is not THE villain. He’s a man that goes to extreme measures and must be stopped but he’s fighting against forces within the Federation that are seeking to lead it in a different direction.
All this conspiracy talk from boborci is leading me to that conclusion. So the shot of the hands could be Harrison and Spock as he realises the error of his ways and he helps the Enterprise in some way.

390. Killamarshtrek - January 15, 2013

Ok I’ve taken another screenshot showing more of the Sound FX list from the BR ‘Webinar’ & enhanced it as much as I can in Photoshop (which is part of my job by the way). Here it is:
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q689/Killamarshtrek/Soundlist2_zps9ffb3850.jpg
You can make out more of the list on this one:

BEEPS • NEGATIVE
FOOTSTEPS FOLEY – STONE
GUN • DEMATERIALIZER
ICE CRYSTALS
JUMPSHIP
LAVA BUBBLES
TRANSPORTER TONES
VOCALS • ANGRY MOBS
WARP CORE
STAR TREK SFX
STAR TREK STEM PULLS SFX
SKYWALKER SFX
STAR TREK TV – SERIES SFX
––– – Files
-HOBBY LIBRARY
-FOR KEEL TO SORT (x 5)
Alarms – Beeps – Buttons
Ambulances
April Giant Gun – Buzzy (or Fuzzy?)
April Giant Gun – Gutteral
April Giant Gun
B_______?
Bone Crunch
Breathing
B____
Cool Shit
Creatures
Data (no not that one!0
Devices
Dirt Foley
Doors EFFORTS
Energy

That’s all there is, make of it what you will, I’ve already mentioned the (possible) significance of the ‘April Giant Gun’. JUMPSHIP sounds interesting, wonder what that is!

391. Curious Cadet - January 15, 2013

@387 Harry Ballz,
“Look at Titanic. People knew the outcome, but wanted to see HOW and WHY it happened.”

Actually I think every teenage girl in the world watched this movie over and over again to see a man give up his life for the woman he loves. If they can find a way to make JFK’s assasination an epic love story then you may be on to something.

As for making a movie about the JFK assasination, I’m sure you are aware Rodenberry pitched a story for the second Trek movie involving the enterprise traveling back through time to stop the Klingons from preventing JFK’s death. Talk about your nail-biters …

392. NCC-73515 - January 15, 2013

Okay, so the Federation President (Weller?) will be shot… by Harrison?

393. The Sinfonian - January 15, 2013

@391 Sure, how about JFK *knowing* he would be assassinated in Dallas, in order to stop the attempted blackmailing of his wife over something…. That he allowed the conspiracy to go forward in order to save his wife and children. Then he’s a tragic hero. The actual assassin was then a character comparable to Diane Lane’s in that movie Murder at 1600, who JFK compelled to do it, so that crappy shooter Oswald wouldn’t mess it up. I’m sure Bob could make it quite a ride.

@Boborci The JFK assassination stories will become fully “adaptable” in our lifetimes, you think? Maybe around 2023, when few are alive who were alive in 1963?

394. Sub Trek - January 15, 2013

This Tom Hardy/John Harrison connection led me to think: what if Cumberbatch’s proposed help is augmented cloning. You clone the person without the defects (or even with enhancements). This would probably be outlawed on moral grounds by Starfleet but it can also easily be argued that cloning a deadly sick person and making a healthy clone would actually be morally superior (of course you let the sick one live out his life).

395. Curious Cadet - January 15, 2013

@390 Killamarshtrek,
“I’ve already mentioned the (possible) significance of the ‘April Giant Gun’.”

Thanks for doing that. Regardless of anything else, it is indeed an interesting look into the effects used in the film.

However, you and others have been making a case for “April’s” gun (possessive). A distinction for which there is no evidence whatsoever. Thus it is less likely to mean a gun owned, or used by someone, and rather distinguishing the type of gun, as in “Gatling gun”.

Moreover, after you have enhanced it it, it looks even less like April to me, and more like “Aarl”.

396. Curious Cadet - January 15, 2013

@394 Sub Trek,

Well these guys have gone down the clone path before with “The Island”.

And I must admit that would be an interesting twist/delimma which the audience would definitely identify with.

There would have to be a way to transfer consciousness from the sick person, which Janice Lester and Roger Corby both gave us within Starfleet, as well as numerous alien methods.

It also gives them a way to transfer any consciousness from a canon character into John Harrison’s genetically enhanced, cloned body.

397. Trekboi - January 15, 2013

Great, 4 months to release & we are still haveing week long blackouts

398. Gary S. - January 15, 2013

#396 How would the audience identify with Cloning?
We dont have clones in this society.
And if they did transfer a consciousness from original to cloned body,
That is a VERY murky issue .
What happens to the consciousness of the clone?
It has a brain and a personality, what happens to that?

399. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 15, 2013

I had not noticed Tuck’s dating name, but then again, I don’t watch any of these movies over and over to seek out the tiniest (and often superfluous) detail. Why would Chris Pine make up the name? He played no part in writing the script and nor did Tom Hardy. One could *see* connections anywhere/everywhere but it is all about being able to connect the relevant dots…

A good many people only found out later that Tom Hardy made his motion picture debut in Star Trek Nemesis. For most people, casting Tom Hardy to play against Chris Pine was simply a matter of good casting, mainly because two of the coolest looking dudes around at the moment were put in the same movie, both are good at their craft and both got fairly equal screentime.

Interestingly, Tom Hardy is the main contender to play, in the Jack Ryan movie sequel, the Clancy/Jack Ryan book character, John Clarke, who was Jack Ryan’s close friend. Hopefully the sequel will be made, due to the success of the first Jack Ryan movie. The first movie is due out on 25 December 2013 – fingers crossed that it is a great success.

400. Jacob - January 15, 2013

NO TREK NEWS FOR A WEEK!? REALLY???

401. Craiger - January 15, 2013

Jack Reacher wont get a sequel because it only earned $153 Million world wide. I wonder if the Trek sequel will have to earn more than that to get the third movie made? If that happens then I guess a new Trek TV series wouldn’t happen.

http://collider.com/jack-reacher-2-sequel-unlikely/224502/#more-224502

402. Craiger - January 15, 2013

Trekweb had 14 news stories some about the movie others just general Trek news. Trekweb won an award for best Trek news site from Spanish Site Base Estelar Nexus. Trekmovie was nominated but lost.

403. Craiger - January 15, 2013

I forgot to add Trekweb had 14 news stories since January 8th the last time Trekmovie was updated.

404. Jacob - January 15, 2013

Thanks Craiger! I’ll check it out.

405. TrekMadeMeWonder - January 15, 2013

No TrekMovie news for a week means a large cache is about to be dumped.

Quit being so impatient, Trekkies.

I suspect that Phase II of the STID ad blitz is about to start. we don’t want typos, do we?

406. Spock's bangs - January 15, 2013

#400. “NO TREK NEWS FOR A WEEK!? REALLY???”

Dear Lord, here we go again. Why can’t you complainers really just leave, like you threaten to do, each and every time there aren’t daily updates? Go to trekweb…please? Go, stay there and spare us the broken record routine! It got old the last time it happened. And the time before that…and before that…and before that…

407. MJ - January 15, 2013

@381. “In depth discussions about JFK aren’t really on topic on a Star Trek fansite. There are so many other places on the internet, where it is more appropriate. So why bring him up again and again? It gets tiresome.”

Agreed. It was 50 years ago, and Kennedy wasn’t “all that” as many of his “worshippers” today still insist.

There will be a big deal over the 50-year anniversary of his assassination later this year, and thankfully then, the whole Kennedy worship mafia will start to die out. 10 years from now, nobody will care anymore except a few old farts and conspiracy theorists.

PS: Harry Ballz, you need to read RFK’s own personal words about how his brother would have stayed the course in Viet Nam. His own brother in 1964 said that…case closed!

408. Disinvited - January 15, 2013

#399. Rose

Don’t you find it odd to be claiming that an actor, Chris Pine, couldn’t influence the writing of one movie’s script on a site where the screenwriter of another movie he’s in, says they retuned their script for the actor cast as the antagonist?

409. Gary S. - January 15, 2013

401.
I dont know about sequels, but Jack Reacher was made for about $60 million, pretty cheap.

410. Jack - January 15, 2013

407. I disagree, respectfully.

The era (and Kennedy himself, I’d argue) are relevant to Trek. And as much as I like to blather on about how Trek doesn’t need to be a clunky allegory, all of these issues are relevant to Trek. Politics, ethics, science — trek should get us thinking about these things…

411. Harry Ballz - January 15, 2013

@407

No, it’s not “case closed”. Gawd, you sound like Gerald Posner!

After reading the very well-researched book, JFK And The Unspeakable, I really don’t know how you can have that opinion.

Back in 1964 RFK could be saying anything, at any point, for political reasons. The author of the aforementioned book had no such agenda. He was simply reporting confirmed facts from reliable sources.

And please don’t reply with that “I trust what his brother had to say” nonsense. Facts take precedence over subjective comments by RFK.

412. Jack - January 15, 2013

403. And most of those Trekweb stories on Star Trek ID include stuff that’s already been posted here. There’s that 2014 STid calendar story (with a dummy photo composed of Trek 2009 shots). Right now, there are a bunch of stories out based on those interviews last month.

413. MJ - January 15, 2013

@411. So some author, writing a book decades later, is right, and his Brother’s direct quote is wrong. Sure, whatever you say….

I presented obvious and direct evidence, not conjecture. Feel free to disagree if you want, or suggest I read a bunch of books, but I will sleep fine tonight and every other night of my life knowing that JFK would not have done much differently from LBJ concerning Vietnam. For me, yes, it’s CASE CLOSED.

414. Harry Ballz - January 15, 2013

Well, thanks for stating that you have a CLOSED MIND.

Good to know.

I keed, I keed!

415. boborci - January 15, 2013

407. MJ – January 15, 2013

Talk about missing the forest for the trees. Extrapolating your argument, you would say there are times when secret government has the right to assassinate the person the people want as President. jThere is no mechanism in a moral constitutional state to excuse the murder of our President. The fact that you can’t see that is a tribute to the work of those whose propaganda you have internalized.

416. TrekMadeMeWonder - January 15, 2013

“411. Harry Ballz – January 15, 2013

@407

No, it’s not “case closed”. Gawd, you sound like Gerald Posner!”

AW-AW-AWESOME, Harry! Just perfect!

417. RaveOnEd - January 15, 2013

415 – Bob, I agree with you on what you say. What’s unsettling is how specifics concerning the JFK assassination are still not completely made public, and what is out there simply doesn’t logically add up.

One issue is that we may never completely know what truthfully happened on 11/22/1963, but it definitely wasn’t one man in a window with a badly made Italian rifle.

418. MJ - January 15, 2013

@415 @415 You guys can have the last word.

@416 In this case, TrekMadeMeConstipated

419. MJ - January 15, 2013

@417. FYI, I and others were not addressing the assassination here today — we was talking about (1) how his presidency was vastly overrated and that we think he was corrupt and Camelot a farce; and (2) how he was a Cold Warrior who would have likely done about the same thing as LBJ in regards to Vietnam

420. boborci - January 15, 2013

419 And I’m saying you know nothing.

Did he cave to pressure to invade Cuba TWICE? No. That’s a historical fact.

Vietnam is speculation. But as he said, parapshrasing “If we don’t go into Cuba which is so close, why would we go to Vietnam which is so far?”

Why did Tip O’neill say JFK told him he was getting out. Why are there tapes of McNamara telling JFK they have to find a way out? Why did McNCamara himself say JFK would’ve gotten us out of Vietnam? Why did JFK sign Executive order pulling out troops before his death?

And don’t pretend. You are arguing that JFK was the same as Vietnam as LBJ to eseentially argue that the military industrial complex had no motive to kill JFK. Even if you could prove that JFK intended same policies as JFK, this alone does not even remotely put a nail in coffin of conspiracy truth.

421. boborci - January 15, 2013

correction:

“…same policies as LBJ.”

422. boborci - January 15, 2013

MJ. And you maybe right that his presidency was over rated. On the other hand,however, the most under rated event in recent history is his assassination. I’m not incensed about your ignorance because I think JFK was perfect, I’m incensed because his perfection is irrelevant when dealing with the ascendency of invisible power agains the people’s will.

423. Darmok - January 15, 2013

311. boborci – January 13, 2013

boborci – “I was the second gunner.”
MJ – “I was the second gunner.”
Anthony P – “I was the second gunner.”
Rose (as in Keachick) – “I was the second gunner.”
Curious Cadet – “I was the second gunner.”
Hat Rick – “I was the second gunner.”
Red Dead Ryan – “I was the second gunner.”
Bulletintheface – “I was the second gunner.”
Darmok – “Darmok and Jalaad at Tanagra.”

424. Killamarshtrek - January 15, 2013

So boborci comes on here talking about an event unrelated to this thread (important as the subject matter is) and everyone stops talking about the possible clues in the video and starts talking about the assassination of JFK instead!

Hmmmmmm……….. I’m sensing a conspiracy!

425. Phil - January 15, 2013

Seeing how we are all off topic again….I demand the warp effects be fixed.

http://news.yahoo.com/warp-speed-hyperspace-really-look-170710011.html

426. WriterJWA - January 15, 2013

For the lazy regarding JFK and Vietnam …. Memorandum 263:

http://www.jfklibrary.org/Asset-Viewer/w6LJoSnW4UehkaH9Ip5IAA.aspx

This came about after McNamara and Maxwell Taylor went to S. Vietnam and came back with a report suggesting the South Vietnamese government was corrupt, incapable of defending itself from the North, and ill-able or unable to adapt to lessons imparted by American advisors on the ground. In fact, there had been a coup in S. Vietnam early November ’63, killing then S. Vietnam President Ngo Dinh Diem.

427. Phil Baiden - January 15, 2013

So does John Harrison murder the president so that the Federation goes to war against the Klingons?
Or does he know someone murdered the President (his father) and is seeking revenge for that killing?
And who destroyed the Fleet? And who wants Kirk and the Enterprise crew out of the way?

I think it was the Orions who wanted the mining rights. It’s always about oil.

428. Craiger - January 15, 2013

Could the Federation President in the sequel be a decendent of JFK?

429. Craiger - January 15, 2013

I like this speech from JFK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEdXrfIMdiU

430. Jefferies Tuber - January 15, 2013

Bob, What do you think about the possible assassination of Hale Boggs, the Speaker of the House who led the investigation of Kennedy’s assassination and died most mysteriously and conveniently in a small plane crash shortly after completing his work?

I find the fact that his son Thomas Hale ['Tommy'] Boggs co-founded the most powerful lobbying firm in DC [Patton Boggs] to be one of the darkest and scariest facts in American history. Tommy represents, eg., North Korea. ABC’s Cokie Roberts is Hale’s daughter and she’s convinced that her father was killed as a part of the post-Kennedy clean up.

431. Spiked Canon - January 15, 2013

whenever Anthony is away we get the crazy boborci

432. Phil - January 15, 2013

@431. Not really. Bob is free to talk about JFK, his cat, or his love of Tapas all he wants. The upcoming movie, not so much. Give him a high level question and he might elaborate above and beyond a yeas or no answer….

433. BulletInTheFace - January 15, 2013

400. Jacob wrote:
“NO TREK NEWS FOR A WEEK!? REALLY???”

Oh, give it up. Freakin’ whiners.

434. Harry Ballz - January 15, 2013

Bob

what do you think about Mac Wallace’s fingerprint being found on the stacked boxes hiding the “sniper’s nest” in the TSBD?

That one piece of evidence alone ties the assassination to LBJ, don’t you think?

435. Bored Treker - January 15, 2013

No News:( zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

436. The Sinfonian - January 15, 2013

The conclusion we are to take away from all of this is, “Yes, Trekkie, there is a Conspiracy Clause (in Star Trek Into Darkness).”

LEE HARVEY OSWALD (15 letters)
JOHN LEE HARRISON (15 letters)

NIBIRU (6 letters)
DALLAS (6 letters)

Oswald was shot by Ruby.
Harrison was shot with a Ruby Laser?

1963.1122
2259.1122

Just kidding. I always liked the Lincoln/Kennedy comparison thing.

437. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 15, 2013

“#333 …assassinating a democratically elected official like the President of the United States or democratically elected person any other sovereign nation is that it is not only an obvious crime against the person murdered, but also against the people of that nation. Presumably, in fair and properly run elections, the majority vote rules, which means that most of the people chose that person to represent them for a specified time period and for someone to murder their representative is a major “flip of the bird” to that country’s population. It is a big “f*ck you” to democracy and the electoral system that allows ordinary people to have some say in how they want their country to be run, for better and/or worse.”

I have just copied and pasted what I wrote above re the JFK assassination. Perhaps it is long winded, but nevertheless states the case. The assassination took place before my time, but it does seem that this event still has a nasty stink to it yet to be fully uncovered and dealt with. Any thorough investigation should have put all these ongoing suspicions to rest, but it has not.

The fact that so many different people are not happy with the original investigation and prosecution of Lee Harvey Oswald ONLY leads me to believe that all is not well with a governmental system that is meant to uphold the truth and protect people, including democratically elected presidents.

I have no idea what the truth is – have not read enough. This is not fiction, so I will not speculate.

Darmok – I am not sure what it is you’re on…about.

438. The Sinfonian - January 15, 2013

Oswald was never prosecuted, Rose. Jack Ruby shot Oswald as he was being transferred from one facility to another.

439. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 15, 2013

Maybe Chris Pine and/or Tom Hardy did have some input into what their respective characters said and did – I don’t know. However, This Means War was made by a different movie company (20th C Fox – not Paramount) and produced and scripted by different people. This Means War was filmed in Vancouver, Canada between September and December 2010, when – well, I don’t recall exactly what STID writers etc were doing then. Bob? TMW director, McG, allowed Chris Pine to see some of the work that a director does, once a scene has been filmed – (seen a photo). Perhaps this is usual, so that the actor can see what he has just done and how it looks on film etc.

I think different film companies, directors and writers have their own attitudes and rules as to what they allow or not and that’s OK.

440. Gary S. - January 15, 2013

Re: John Harrisons name in This Means War.
Sometimes a coincidence is exactly that.

441. Lostrod - January 15, 2013

Since we’ve gotten a bit off topic …

I’m watching “River Monsters” on Animal Planet channel and having a Foster’s beer and the host claims there could be eight foot eels in New Zealand.

Keachick – can you set the record straight? Myth or reality?

Regards.

442. Ahmed - January 15, 2013

Any idea what date the movie comics coming out this month ?

443. dmduncan - January 15, 2013

Belittling JFK in the context of questions about the far reaching criminality of his murder is about as close to trying to justify his murder as one can get without actually saying it.

A personal opinion of JFK’s character has nothing to do with the crime, and mentioning that irrelevancy in the context of a conspiracy to kill him sounds to me like a barely concealed attempt to excuse and then to ignore something so potentially big that it deserves at least as much of your attention as the Star Trek news of the day. Every day.

444. Curious Cadet - January 15, 2013

@439 Rose,

Cumberbatch was announced January 4th and shooting commenced January 12th. By that point all of the actors should have had their scripts in hand.

The operative theory here is that the script was re-written, and tailored for the casting of Cumberbatch as reported. Dmduncan would have us believe it was originally written for Benecio Del Toro to play Joaquin, and then changed after Cumberbatch was cast. Since we do not know when they came up with the name “John Harrison”, it could have easily evolved through interaction on the set with the actors, leading up to the time they first had to use it on camera, especially if they didn’t know what to call him, which is a realistic possibility given how quickly they would have had to adapt the script. Whether Harrison is a Botany Bay survivor or not, this makes sense if indeed they were planning to cast Del Torro for the same role.

This may or may not be the case, however it is absolutely a possibility.

445. Gray Ghost - January 15, 2013

420

But Kennedy did approve the Eisenhower plan to invade Cuba, “The Bay of Pigs.” He also approved of Operation Mongoose. He was as much a Cold Warrior as Ike, whose warning about the “military industrial complex,” while wise, does come off as disingenuous now because…he was planning the invasion of Cuba around the same time!

446. Basement Blogger - January 15, 2013

Well, I’m not an expert on the JFK assassination. I haven’t checked above but has anyone written anything about Tom Hanks’ views of Robert Kennedy’s recent comments hinting that there was conspiracy to kill JFK? After all Hanks is behind a project to film Vincent Bugliosi’s book, which I understand makes the statement that it was a lone gunman that killed JFK.

447. Phil - January 15, 2013

@444. At some point, probably after the release of the movie, Cumberbatch will let it be known when he was approached for th role. I suspect it was probably well prior to the 4th, as he would have had to audition, salary negotiated, and contracts drawn up and signed. In this day and age it’s unimaginable that JJ told him you have the part, and my guys will work out the details with your guys….also, as Mr. Orci and others have mentioned, scripts get rewrites all through the process. Recall they were not able to do that on Trek09 because of the writers strike, which continues to be the best possible explaination for some of the gitches that have been well debated here…

448. dmduncan - January 15, 2013

444: “Dmduncan would have us believe it was originally written for Benecio Del Toro to play Joaquin, and then changed after Cumberbatch was cast.”

No. dmduncan would have you believe that the part was originally conceived as and written for a Latino to play, and Benicio Del Toro was the first choice, followed by Edgar Ramirez and Jordi Molla as considered candidates when Del Toro refused.

I have no idea which actor they had in mind while actually WRITING the script.

449. dmduncan - January 15, 2013

So, we know they thought of three Latino actors first, and after signing Cumberbatch they changed the role for him. Why? Why would they feel a need to do that? Why couldn’t they just put Cumberbatch into the role as written?

Because he would not have fit the original conception of the character as well with his accent and complexion and features. He would not have looked like an average example of a Latino, and averages are what you are shooting for to uncontroversially portray a character.

450. Boborci - January 15, 2013

446

Read VB’s book. Amazing that over a thousand pages can be so easily debunkable.

451. Boborci - January 15, 2013

443 dm

Hear, hear! Twice!

452. Red Dead Ryan - January 15, 2013

Well, considering that Jack Ruby shot Lee Harvey Oswald on live tv, it stands to reason then that, yes, a conspiracy was involved.

It’s clear that some in the U.S government, including the CIA, were responsible for JFK’s murder. I don’t think LBJ masterminded the plot, though he certainly benefitted from it.

I’ll have to find the book Harry Ballz suggested. Sounds like a good read.

453. Capes - January 15, 2013

Hi….Capes here.

Is this another never-ending un-moderated thread? It feels like one and it has been about 2 years since the “Where’s Anthony” scare of 2010……

Perspiring minds want to know…..

Harry, this pic is just for you:
http://images.wikia.com/merlin1/images/9/90/Erica-Durance-Smallville-TV-Series-08.jpg

454. Harry Ballz - January 15, 2013

@452

Ryan, the Unspeakable book is a great read! The detail is amazing.

It was our pal, Bob Orci, in posting back and forth, that suggested I read it.

I’m glad he did.

455. Harry Ballz - January 15, 2013

@453

Capes, when I click on it, the picture is so big, you can’t make it out.

‘Course, I’m not surprised that happens when you’re photographing a HORSE!

456. Red Dead Ryan - January 15, 2013

(sings)

“Who’s gonna ride your wild horses……?”

457. Capes - January 15, 2013

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!

Almost halfway to 1000…..again!

458. MDSHiPMN - January 15, 2013

This site is really buzzing.

459. MJ - January 15, 2013

I’m standing by what I said earlier, but appreciate all the comments nevertheless.

460. MJ - January 15, 2013

“Belittling JFK in the context of questions about the far reaching criminality of his murder is about as close to trying to justify his murder as one can get without actually saying it.”

That is your inference of what I said. I never said that, nor did I mean that.

Ignoring politics and career types, I would say that the JFK mystique bears a startling resemblance to the Lance Armstrong mystique. If Armstrong had died a few years ago, he’d probably have ended up as the greatest sports hero of all time; instead, were seeing a tragic downfall here today. I think the same thing would have eventually happened to JFK had he lived, through a combination of his uncontrollable womanizing, escalation in Vietnnam, and yes, I think based on Daddy’s mob history, he would have had no qualms about doing something like Watergate as well.

461. Red Dead Ryan - January 15, 2013

Lance Armstrong is a complete phony and an arrogant fraud. I wouldn’t lump JFK in with him, despite all his flaws and indiscretions.

462. MJ - January 16, 2013

@461 I agree, and that’s my whole point. We perceive Armstrong that way now — you are completely correct. But if he had died the year after he won his 7th Tour de France, this all never would have come out, and many would perceive him as the greatest sports hero of all time.

463. Star Trek: Nemesis blows, is the point - January 16, 2013

@452. Red Dead Ryan – January 15, 2013
“Well, considering that Jack Ruby shot Lee Harvey Oswald on live tv, it stands to reason then that, yes, a conspiracy was involved. ”

That was a lucky chance it was on TV. CBS wasn’t supposed to be there in the first place; they only decided to go at the last minute. No way Jack Ruby knew they were going to be there.

464. James - January 16, 2013

In the lead up to the release of the new Trek movie, I am reviewing all the previous films here:

http://ryesofthegeek.wordpress.com/

465. bobrci - January 16, 2013

460. right cuz both JFK and LA prevented nuclear war a few times and saved humanity at the expense of their own life. oh wait! only one of them didi that! I forget which.

466. WriterJWA - January 16, 2013

Re: 460, 465 … I kind of understand where 460 is coming from philosophically. It’s hard to say given the climate of the time period, but would Kennedy have found himself surrounded in scandal over alleged sexual affairs (such as what just came out recently with Mimi Alford) in his second term? I suspect had events … ahem … conspired against him in ’63 and he won a second term, and those allegation came to light (vis-a-vis Clinton) his mystical “stock” wouldn’t be as high, or even if he lived and had a second term that progressed naturally without scandal. His death, the nature of his death, and the halted legacy of his presidency (with so much promise) inflates his image.

Of course that doesn’t justify murder, or conspiracy to commit murder in any case … ESPECIALLY when it comes to thoroughly investigating that murder and bringing about diligent prosecution.

467. WriterJWA - January 16, 2013

Excuse me “had events NOT conspired against him”.

468. Bob Dole - January 16, 2013

Not a whole s**t of a lot going on right now in the Trek news universe eh?

469. Daniel Broadway - January 16, 2013

Isn’t it getting about time to see the new Star Trek Into Darkness toyline? Assuming there will be one?

470. Aurore - January 16, 2013

“So, we know they thought of three Latino actors first, and after signing Cumberbatch they changed the role for him. Why? Why would they feel a need to do that? Why couldn’t they just put Cumberbatch into the role as written?

Because he would not have fit the original conception of the character as well with his accent and complexion and features. He would not have looked like an average example of a Latino, and averages are what you are shooting for to uncontroversially portray a character.”

___________

I, personally, partly disagree about the reasons why the role had to be re-written after Mr. Cumberbatch was cast.

What does an average Latino look like in Cuba, Mexico, Puerto Rico, Spain, or Venezuela for instance?

For a part originally conceived and written for a Latino, I think features and complexion would not have been an issue; what would have really mattered is that the character be able to…speak fluent Spanish.

It would have helped in scenes where he would have had to speak …Spanish convincingly …If such scenes had been written, of course.

Moreover, apparently, according to Damon Lindelof, what happened once Mr. Cumberbatch was cast was in no way different than what happens when they cast any (other) actor; ” Because these parts are not off the rack suits where you put them on and they fit like a glove. You make the suit and then the actor puts it on and then you say, ‘I’ve got to now tailor this thing so it fits them perfectly.’ So Benedict was no different etc….”

http://collider.com/damon-lindelof-star-trek-2-into-darkness-interview/220137/2

471. Aurore - January 16, 2013

Correction 470.
what would have really mattered is that the character be able to…speak fluent Spanish.

=

what would have really mattered is that the actor be able to…speak fluent Spanish.

472. LogicalLeopard - January 16, 2013

470. Aurore – January 16, 2013

From what I understand, this wasn’t an issue of changing the “role”, just some of the dialogue. They explained that it was because dialogue sounds different in the mouths of different actor. If you have the voice of Darth Vader being played by, I dunno, Samuel Jackson, when he force chokes Captain Needa, he might say, “That’s what I think about your apology!” But when you have him played by James Earl Jones, and his particular voice, “Apology accepted, Captain Needa” is a better fit because it sounds so evil coming from him. Actors have different vibes and different abilities, and some lines can be tinkered with for a better fit

Plus, Khan wasn’t Latino, Montalban was. So there would need to be no spanish dialogue. And arguably, Montalban isn’t “Hispanic” in the normal sense. He was born in Mexico to parents from Spain, which would make him a European Caucasian. With a nice tan, apparently.

473. CK - January 16, 2013

I wish this site would keep up with some of the other trek sites when it comes to news…!!

474. boborci - January 16, 2013

472 LOL! Exactly

475. Aurore - January 16, 2013

“From what I understand, this wasn’t an issue of changing the ‘role’, just some of the dialogue. ”
______

What occurred is approached in the article I linked to @470. Damon Lindelof talks about it.

“Plus, Khan wasn’t Latino, Montalban was. So there would need to be no spanish dialogue. And arguably, Montalban isn’t “Hispanic” in the normal sense. He was born in Mexico to parents from Spain, which would make him a European Caucasian. With a nice tan, apparently.”

I know Khan wasn’t Latino. I’ve said it countless times on other threads.
And, you are right about Mr. Montalbán; it was also said on a video I linked to on other threads.

:)

…My point was that there could have been scenes written in Spanish for the villain….had he been “Latino”.

Before Mr.Cumberbatch was cast I assumed the villain would probably be from a Spanish speaking country given the actors being considered, at the time. I hoped for a new villain to the canon.

I never believed the villain would be Khan, and, wrote about it.
Very often.

:)

476. Aurore - January 16, 2013

“They explained that it was because dialogue sounds different in the mouths of different actor etc….”
________

Indeed .

That is what Damon Lindelof said in the article I linked to @470.
Again, my post was not about Khan. At all.

:)

477. Dee - lvs moon' surface - January 16, 2013

I think more likely that the name “John Harrison” is connected with the Trek universe, than with a character in TMW … I’d bet my crown jewels in it! … I love Chris Pine and I love Tom Hardy … and I had fun watching the movie and bought the DVD, cz I’m crazy … LOL …

… but I doubt that both actors lost any time discussing the script of that film, with whoever it is … mainly with writers of Into Darkness! … This Means War is great for memes on tumblr, and that’s all! … just saying… ;-) :-)

478. Jai - January 16, 2013

Re: #235, #247, #254:

Okay, as a guy from an Indian Sikh background, I have to belatedly make some comments about the whole “Khan as title” thing ;)

In India, the word “Khan” was historically associated with aristocrats, and yes it did eventually become a hereditary name. But a surname, not a first name. (You may be surprised how many Indian movie stars have the surname “Khan”).

There’s another important factor. In India, “Khan” – as a surname or a historical title – isn’t generic; it’s specific to Muslims. Indians from other religious backgrounds have never been called Khan as a surname or a title.

Now, historically it used to be quite common for many Sikhs to have *first names* more usually associated with Muslims, so it’s credible for our fictional genetically-engineered superhuman friend to have “Khan” as his first name even though he’s a Sikh. But not as any other aspect of his name or title.

So, to make this simple: “Khan Noonien Singh” ? Yes. “Noonien Singh Khan” ? No. “Khan” as a first name ? Yes. “Khan” as a surname ? No. “Khan” as a title ? No.

Clear ? Good. Now continue with the JFK conspiracy ;)

479. Dee - lvs moon' surface - January 16, 2013

#476. Aurore

Exactly! LOL….. +LOL

480. LogicalLeopard - January 16, 2013

To spark a little more debate, here’s a question: Name 3 TOS characters you’d like to see in either this, or a future movie, and in what capacity.

As for me,

1) Number One: I think it’d be interesting to see her on the bridge of the Enterprise. I don’t think they’re going to kill Spock, but she’d be a good replacement. Maybe we could see her as a captain of another vessel. I think she’s an interesting enough character to warrant further attention.

2) T’Pring – Okay, I wanted them to go into an Amok Time subplot this flim, but I don’t think that’s happening, and it seems like they’ve done an infinitely better job than I have. But I think it’d be interesting to see, even if it’s a brief mention or a video transmission. It’d present an interesting potential foil to the “Spockura” relationship, for her to find out that he’s engaged.

3) Kor – Gotta have at least one of the popular Klingon foils.

Who do you think would play those people, or other characters?

481. Aurore - January 16, 2013

From what I understand, this wasn’t an issue of changing the ‘role’
_____

I think I understood what happened.

:)

The post you replied to ( my post @ 470) was my answer to dmduncan @ 449.

He was not speaking about Khan either.

482. LogicalLeopard - January 16, 2013

475. Aurore – January 16, 2013

Well, it looks like you, me, Damon Lindenof, and Bob Orci are in agreement!

Speaking of Lindenof, by the way, I’m extremely late to the party on this, but I read the graphic novel “Ultimate Wolverine vs the Hulk” recently, which came out before the first movie. Great Star Trek references for fans. When a character is found with what is believed to be top secret information but is actually an advance copy of the Star Trek movie, she says, “Hey, a Trekkie’s got a right to know!!!” Later, a conversation between Wolverine and a character named Forge, Wolverine calls Forge “Data”, and when asked if he’s a Trekkie, he says something like, “Trek is for nerds, I was talking about that kid from the Goonies” *LOL*

483. Curious Cadet - January 16, 2013

@472 Logocal Leopard,
“Plus, Khan wasn’t Latino, Montalban was.”

Dmduncan’s theory is that Harrison is another Botany Bay survivor, previously intended to be Joaquin (a traditionally Spanish name), until they cast Cumberbatch.

484. BulletInTheFace - January 16, 2013

“Dmduncan’s theory is that Harrison is another Botany Bay survivor, previously intended to be Joaquin (a traditionally Spanish name), until they cast Cumberbatch.”

Such a change would be entirely unnecessary, though, so the theory goes out the window. Joaquin (in “Space Seed”) was played by Mark Tobin, who was not Hispanic (Tobin is an Irish name). And Joachim (in “Wrath of Khan”) was played by Judson Scott, who is also not Hispanic (Scott is a Scottish name). So there’s no reason they’d need to change character names if Cumberbatch (a Brit) had been hired for that role… though I suppose they could have named him Wakeem, in keeping with the changed name spelling from “Space Seed” to “Wrath of Khan.”

485. LogicalLeopard - January 16, 2013

483. Curious Cadet – January 16, 2013
@472 Logocal Leopard,
“Plus, Khan wasn’t Latino, Montalban was.”

Dmduncan’s theory is that Harrison is another Botany Bay survivor, previously intended to be Joaquin (a traditionally Spanish name), until they cast Cumberbatch.

*************************************

I think Joaquin, or Joachim is Portuguese, isn’t it? But I think the change mentioned was not the actual character, just the dialogue, so we were still dealing with John Harrison either way, Cumberbatch or not.

486. LogicalLeopard - January 16, 2013

481. Aurore – January 16, 2013

That’s exactly what happened. Sorry, I just jumped in by only reading your post.

487. dmduncan - January 16, 2013

483: Yes, that is my leading theory, the one I think fits best.

And regarding racial types, it’s all about family resemblances folks. I can pass for Italian, Spanish, Mexican, even British. I cannot pass for Asian, black, Hawaiian, or Indian. Cumberbatch COULD pass for Latino, but the look he has is more typically British than Latino, and when I talk about averages, I mean how you can identify people from certain backgrounds based on how they look and be right. Unless your intent is to be controversial — NOT the intent of this movie, I would assert, at least not on the matter of character identity — then if you have a Sikh character, you ought to cast someone who resembles the people who are Sikh rather than casting Carrot Top to play a Sikh.

What is Latino? Well, how far back do you want to go? Because the original Latins were the people who grew up around seven hills in Italy from whom came the Roman Empire, and who spoke the Latin language from which a host of other languages have come, including Spanish.

But there are no sharp dividing lines and at the margins of a given “race” the people can softly blend into the people of another “race.” This is why racism is so idiotic, because we ARE ultimately all relatives.

Finally, Bob can kill my J Theory right now by answering a simple yes or no question:

Was “John Harrison” the name of the character that Cumberbatch is playing in STID when that role was offered to Benicio Del Toro?

:-)

488. Basement Blogger - January 16, 2013

In case any of you missed it, I’ve linked a report on the comments of Robert Kennedy Jr. on his father’s beliefs of the JFK’s assassination an his own views. RFK Jr.. believes it was not a a lone gunman. And he says that his father investigated the phone records of Oswald and Ruby; found calls to organized crime figures.

Hey Star Trek VI covered conspiracy theories and what happens to the original assassins.

“First rule of assassination. Kill the assassins.” Captain Kirk.

Is that what happened to Oswald? Ruby kills Oswald two days after he kills JFK. It does seem too convenient, doesn’t it?

Link-RFK Jr.’s recent comments on JFK assassination.
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-01-12/national/36313191_1_assassination-warren-commission-report-rory-kennedy

489. Red Dead Ryan - January 16, 2013

#462.

JFK lived in an era of no internet. No twenty-four hour news channels, either. Lance Armstrong has been accused of doping for several years, all the way back to 2005. Maybe even earlier. He managed to bully witnesses, and pay off the Tour officials with bribes.

Even if he had died in 2007, Armstrong’s legacy would still be tainted. Because there would be stuff about him on the internet. In fact, it would have been easier for witnesses who were bullied into keeping quiet to speak up about him.

JFK didn’t cover up anyting; Lance Armstrong did. Those who cover-up their sins are inevitably brought down, i.e the BBC’s Jimmy Savile, who long after he died, is now known to be a monster who preyed on vulnerable children. Before that, Savile was considered a British legend. But now that legend is in ruins.

#463.

So what? The point was Jack Ruby shot and killed Lee Harvey Oswald to keep him from spilling the beans. Whether or not he knew the cameras were there is not the point. Oswald was gunned down to keep him quiet. The fact that CBS was there at the last minute prove how historically valuable the photos are. Nobody can deny what they tell us. That is the main point I was making.

490. dmduncan - January 16, 2013

I’ve only known one Joaquim. He was from Colombia, if I remember correctly. But you could write Joaquim as a Brazilian superdude, and the same set of actors they originally looked at would fit.

From Burke we know they DID tailor the character to Cumberbatch, and while that may indeed mean rewriting dialogue (perhaps even with Cumberbatch’s suggestions after sounding out the words) so that it sounds better in Cumberbatch’s voice, that is NOT to say that is the ONLY way the role may have been altered.

Until Bob confirms it, we don’t know the character’s name was ALWAYS John Harrison.

But I would be quite happy to learn that it was. Just more data for me to process.

491. Aurore - January 16, 2013

“What is Latino? Well, how far back do you want to go?”
_______

You answered my question about “averages”.

So don’t go any further…

Thank you.

:)

492. dmduncan - January 16, 2013

491. Aurore – January 16, 2013

You are welcome. :-)

493. Aurore - January 16, 2013

“Well, it looks like you, me, Damon Lindenof, and Bob Orci are in agreement!”
______

…We are?

And, who is Damon Lindenof?

:)

494. Red Dead Ryan - January 16, 2013

A couple of weeks ago I passed by a Sikh. He was clearly of European Caucasian descent, as he was light skinned, and had a blondish beard. He was wearing a red turban.

So yes, it is quite possible that Benedict Cumberbatch’s John Harrison is Khan.

Sikhism is a religion, not a race. Granted, I would assume that at least 90% of Sikhs are of Indian/Pakistani descent. Just like how 90% of Muslims are non-Caucasian.

And yes, Marla McGivers did suggest that Khan was a Sikh from Northern India. But Nick Meyer disregarded/ignored that part, and made Ricardo Montalban look more like an angry white man in TWOK.

495. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 16, 2013

#441 – It seems that there may be eels that long – see here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_longfin_eel

and something *edifying*…:)

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10835890

496. Spiked Canon - January 16, 2013

Orci, I’m guessing you are a fan of Zeigest the Movie

497. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 16, 2013

I get you now – bit slowed up at the moment…

The only person who can confirm or deny suspicions as to who came up with the name of John Harrison ain’t saying anything. I’m Bob Orci could but he ain’t. So what’s new?…:)

498. boborci - January 16, 2013

496. Very interesting movie indeed.

499. Curious Cadet - January 16, 2013

@494 Red Dead Ryan,
“And yes, Marla McGivers did suggest that Khan was a Sikh from Northern India. But Nick Meyer disregarded/ignored that part, and made Ricardo Montalban look more like an angry white man in TWOK.”

She made that observation based on his appearance. Considering Khan had neither a beard, nor a turban, the Sikh comment was either baseless conjecture, or she knew who Khan was and kept it to herself. Or, she attributed it based on the region she assumed he might be from. Therefore, the Northern Indian comment had to be based on appearance, most likely color of his skin. And while a Northern Indian can look like a Caucasian man, that was not the intent here. Indeed we have been told by John Tenuto that the part was changed from a Scandinavian character to an Indian character specifically because Montalban was cast. However, since Montalban has such Indo European characteristics, i.e. not classic Indian features, then Northern India makes the most sense for his particular color and features. I can imagine such a discussion being had among the writers as to explain why Montalban looked neither Asian, nor Indian. Why they didn’t just set him in Central or South America instead is beyond me. This then is the reason Cumberbatch should NOT play Khan.

Regardless, do you have a source for your Nick Meyer assertion, or is that just speculation on your part based on your opinion of Montalban’s appearance in TWOK?

500. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 16, 2013

I find it disturbing that people seems to almost be justifying the murder of a president because of what he might have done had he been allowed to live. That is speculation of the worst kind. His death provided him no opportunity to do anything, even change his mind about ideas he might have had prior to his death.

As for US military involvement in Vietnam in the 1960s, most of the US population appeared to support this course of action, such was the fear of the spread of Communism – the Domino Effect. So if JFK did go into Vietnam, he would not be necessarily acting against the majority will. History shows the whole business to be rather unholy with much human and other life lost, then again hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I did not know that Lee Harvey Oswald was killed before he was able to give his testimony. At best, that demonstrates very lax security in operation at the time. At worst, well… not good.

It seems that major events like this get etched into people’s memories, even though the event may have nothing to do with them personally.
I don’t know about the JFK assassination, however I do recall my parents being able to remember where they were, what they were doing etc when they first heard the news of the assassination. I can still remember the where’s, what’s, why’s when I first found out about the events of 9/11. I can also remember the where’s, what’s, why’s…when Christchurch was hit by its second deadly earthquake on 22 February 2011.

It is curious that the Japanese Tohoku earthquake and tsuname of 11 March 2011 is never mentioned. It killed nearly 20,000 people and left almost half a million people homeless and oh, of course, took out the Fukushima nuclear power plant facility. Maybe it is because the nuclear power industry does not want people to be reminded…hmmm

501. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 16, 2013

“I can help you” – John Harrison

This -

http://blastr.com/2013/01/benedict-cumberbatch-reve-1.php

502. Spiked Canon - January 16, 2013

498 boborci- this website debunks most of Peter Joseph’s lies.

http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/zeitgeist/

Amazing what people can get away with on the internet and in documentaries. All you have to do is say a lie or say something out of context and it somehow becomes fact.

Just like the Kennedy’s in Dallas recently. telling everyone what their father thought and believed. Really? you were like 1 and 3 year old.

The facts say Kennedy was killed by Oswald
Jesus was a historical figure
Al-Quada acted alone

Now if you want to add conjecture you can say anything. In fact I’ll just go ahead and say the Liberal left was behind the shootings in Conneticut to help drive the anti-gun movement. Can you prove me wrong Orci?

503. boborci - January 16, 2013

502 Spike Canon

“Amazing what people can get away with on the internet and in documentaries. All you have to do is say a lie or say something out of context and it somehow becomes fact.”

—-

this applies just as well and more pernisciously so to the main stream media!

504. Spiked Canon - January 16, 2013

not going to argue that. It started with the onset of cable new channels and right wing talk radio (Limbaugh). All the lines became blurred.

Or should i say it started wtih the founding fathers when they created freedom of speech.

Conspiracy Theorys are “fun” to talk about, but they are theorys. Anyone can have a theory, but in the end if all you have as evidence is fact….so be it

505. boborci - January 16, 2013

502

Disagree with you on what the facts say about JFK. I could show you more evidence of conspiracy then you can show me of lone nut. Hell, even congress said conspiracy “probable” in late 70′s.

And I love the oxymoron of alq acted alone. An organization operating in 73 countries (according to the state department). It shows how confused people are by the concept of conspiracy, because another way to phrase what you said about al q, is to say “the Conspiracy acted alone!”

506. Aurore - January 16, 2013

“Cumberbatch COULD pass for Latino, but the look he has is more typically British than Latino, and when I talk about averages, I mean how you can identify people from certain backgrounds based on how they look and be right. Unless your intent is to be controversial…”

_______

…Well I could accept/have accepted him as a Latino character. A British man portraying a man from Spain, for instance, would not have been that
controversial, in my opinion. And, personally I would have remembered that the powers that be had , at least, tried to give other actors a chance, before choosing to work with Mr. Cumberbatch.

You said so yourself once; “Cumberbatch could pass for Latino. Only with much squinting (or extra shady 3D glasses) can he pass for Khan.”

…Yes. Indeed.
Benedict Cumberbatch as Khan on the other hand….No.

:)

507. Jack - January 16, 2013

The founding fathers created freedom of speech? Did the concept originate in America?

508. So tired - January 16, 2013

@500. Most of the US population did NOT support Vietnam, why the h-ll do you think the veternas of that war have been treated like absolute sh-t for decades, what do you think the entire Hippie movement was about (other than drugs and sex) you really need to do a whole lot more research on actual historical fact, crap even watching the first and last Rambo movies (none of the others) would give you a better idea of what real life American Vietnam veterans went through.

In one of your earlier comments you said that the US president is elected by “majority vote” which is also wrong, since the President is actually determined solely by the votes of the “Electoral College” which is a very tiny minority of the US population. The general public does vote, but those votes don’t really count, as even a cursory examination of US Presidential history will show numerous times when a candidate lost the popular vote, but won the “Electoral College” and became President. It is an utter myth that the “majority vote” determines anything in the US.

All the rest of you guys arguing about Kennedy are silly since anyone with a brain and the ability to use it can see that both Kennedys and Marilyn Monroe were killed by their father’s Mafia friends after JFK did not come through on what was promised for the Mob buying his Presidency, just ask Joltin’ Joe DiMaggio.

509. dmduncan - January 16, 2013

502: “Now if you want to add conjecture you can say anything. In fact I’ll just go ahead and say the Liberal left was behind the shootings in Conneticut to help drive the anti-gun movement. Can you prove me wrong Orci?”

If you’ve got evidence I’m willing to look at it. Otherwise it IS just conjecture. Evidence and the lack thereof is what distinguishes credible conspiracy from mere conjecture.

You can make any assertion you want with the certainty of knowing what you ate for lunch this afternoon, but that doesn’t mean you know all the objects of your assertions equally certainly.

Stating things with certainty might persuade some that you know what the facts are, but it doesn’t give you the facts.

510. SherlockFangirl - January 16, 2013

So TrekWeb is posting a rare interview with Jeffrey Hunter from 1965, and TrekCore just announced that The Animated Series is coming to Blu-Ray.

So how long till TrekMovie passes this off as “news”?

LULZ

511. Bob Tompkins - January 16, 2013

Great interview over at TrekCore about almost everything that bothered me about 2009 Star Trek…
except the huge plot hole of Spock Prime giving up rather than destroying the jellyfish ship, which took me out of the movie altogether…

http://tng.trekcore.com/bluray/01162013_robmeyerburnett6.html

512. Dee - lvs moon' surface - January 16, 2013

Chris Pine and Zoe Saldana will host the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences’ Scientific and Technical Awards, February 9, at The Beverly Hills Hotel…

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=98938

513. MJ - January 16, 2013

@500 “I find it disturbing that people seems to almost be justifying the murder of a president because of what he might have done had he been allowed to live.”

Well I find it much more disturbing that you are throwing out blanket accusations on me here when I specifically said, and then clarified again, that I am not suggesting this whatsoever.

What’s really happening here is that people who don’t like my negative opinion on Kennedy are trying to falsely label me as supporting his assassination. What a load of crap! That is blatantly false, and I never said that, not did I infer it. If you are reading that into what I said, then that is YOUR problem, not mine.

514. MJ - January 16, 2013

@466 “I kind of understand where 460 is coming from philosophically. It’s hard to say given the climate of the time period, but would Kennedy have found himself surrounded in scandal over alleged sexual affairs (such as what just came out recently with Mimi Alford) in his second term? I suspect had events … ahem … conspired against him in ’63 and he won a second term, and those allegation came to light (vis-a-vis Clinton) his mystical “stock” wouldn’t be as high, or even if he lived and had a second term that progressed naturally without scandal. His death, the nature of his death, and the halted legacy of his presidency (with so much promise) inflates his image.”

Exactly — you broke the code, dude!

515. MJ - January 16, 2013

@488 “In case any of you missed it, I’ve linked a report on the comments of Robert Kennedy Jr. on his father’s beliefs of the JFK’s assassination an his own views. RFK Jr.. believes it was not a a lone gunman. And he says that his father investigated the phone records of Oswald and Ruby; found calls to organized crime figures.”

But RFK lied about his brother on Vietnam, so he probably lied to his son here on this topic as well. RFK was a habitual liar — we can’t trust anything the guy said.

(sarcasm)

516. TrekMadeMeWonder - January 16, 2013

OK. Had to post this.

Sick of the “was it a conspiracy” talk.

How, oh how, could the Secret Service ever standdown?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY02Qkuc_f8

…and a recent update that covers more of the “Official” lies…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCHGNvTvqU0

Good job with the research, Vince.

517. dmduncan - January 16, 2013

513: “What’s really happening here is that people who don’t like my negative opinion on Kennedy are trying to falsely label me as supporting his assassination.”

No. I personally have a cynical view of most politicians in both major parties, and especially of those who gain the White House. Someone having a negative opinion of the kind of man Kennedy was does not bother me at all. I KNOW they ALL have feet of clay. As a Frank Herbert fan I learned that lesson very early.

But it’s irrelevant. The assassination was one of those Rubicon moments of American history, so when you try to distract people’s attention away from that toward irrelevant issues of his character, it makes you look like you are trying to focus people’s attention on his character more than the crime — AS IF his character was the more important issue!

THAT is where you rode off the rails — not on the idea that you don’t think he wasn’t so good (fair enough), but that you tried to make his character the thing to discuss.

And okay, the issue may be settled for you, but it is not settled for a whole bunch of us, and for us, once again, questions about his character only serve to distract focus from the crime of his assassination, because if you don’t have sympathy for a human being then it’s harder to care about that person’s murder, and disparaging a person’s character is a good way to make people care less about what happens, or has happened, to that person.

To understand Kennedy, the nation’s grief over his murder, and the magnitude of the crime his assassination was, you have to tell the tale of the time itself. Whatever his faults may have been, he was still a man whose death REMAINS worth caring about.

518. crazydaystrom - January 16, 2013

Bob Orci-
Forgive me if this has been answered or touched on but what do you think of Oliver Stone’s film JFK? After seeing it I saw, a few years later, on PBS’The Men Who Killed Kennedy’, which no doubt you’re familiar with. It was a rebroadcast and seems Stone used that documentary as an information source. Do you happen to know if that is indeed the case. And what’s your opinion of it?

519. Harry Ballz - January 16, 2013

@516

Thanks for posting the Secret Service video clip. Nice proof to rub under the noses of the “Oswald acted alone” group.

@517

Nice post, dmduncan. Simply put, if people within the government killed Kennedy (which I’m convinced happened), then that means evil probably operates within the “halls of power” to this very day. That needs to be remedied by the truth finally coming out regarding JFK’s assassination.

520. Harry Ballz - January 16, 2013

@518

I own the dvd of “The Men Who Killed Kennedy”. It’s got a lot of good stuff (considering it was made in the late 1980′s). The only false note is where they conjecture that the assassins were brought in from Marseilles. That has been proven false.

521. Basement Blogger - January 16, 2013

I have questions on JFK’s assassination. I’m very suspicious of the lone gunman theory in light of the Zapruder film and the fact that Oswald was killed two days later.

As for 9/11, there’s an excellent documentary debunking the conspiracy theories from the History Channel. It’s called “9/11 Conspiracies; Fact of Fiction?” Just watched it on YouTube. Unfortunately for 9/11 conspiracy proponents, one of the leading supporters in the documentary is Alex Jones, the radio talk show host. His recent appearance on Piers Morgan to discuss guns demonstrated that he’s unhinged, angry and crazy. So looking at the 9/11 theories from both sides, I have to say the proponents of the theory that the government did 9/11 have not met their burden of proof.

The problem that I see with 9/11 conspiracy theorists is that there’s no scientific testing of their hypothesis. And the guys countering them offer excellent arguments and science.

As for UFOs, count me as one who wants serious scientific studies of the best cases. See the nineties UFO Belgium sightings, and the examples cited in Leslie Kean’s book.

522. Craiger - January 16, 2013

Hey BB – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QK-XATA-5gs

523. Craiger - January 16, 2013

Harry have you read this one?

http://www.amazon.com/Killing-Kennedy-The-End-Camelot/dp/0805096663

524. crazydaystrom - January 16, 2013

520. Harry Ballz-
I recorded it on VHS and I might have the tapes somewhere. What do you think Oliver Stone’s film?

525. crazydaystrom - January 16, 2013

*of* Oliver Stone’s film

526. Basement Blogger - January 16, 2013

Craiger,

Yes, I am familiar with President Reagan’s comments about “alien threats.” I wonder if the guys in the NSA said to themselves that the old man let the cat out of the bag. And while I didn’t agree with Reagan on a lot of things, I do agree with him on that one. Our differences would go away if we were faced with an alien threat. Remember that scene in Independence Day where you saw Arab and Isrealis working together to rid the earth of the invading aliens? That was a corny but entertaining movie. Brent Spiner had a fun turn as a scientist.

527. dmduncan - January 16, 2013

519. Harry Ballz – January 16, 2013

Thanks, and yes, no doubt about it. You don’t change Washington — Washington changes YOU.

528. Craiger - January 16, 2013

I do remember that scence BB. I wonder if the NSA only tells the President about Aliens if they get a second term? Then they show them the Stargate Program. LOL.

529. BulletInTheFace - January 16, 2013

#494: Uh… Khan did NOT look like a white guy in TWOK.

530. BulletInTheFace - January 16, 2013

#502: Congratulations. You have just officially posted the dumbest, most baseless theory on this thread.

531. Harry Ballz - January 16, 2013

2524

crazydaystrom, I’ve watched Oliver Stone’s JFK about 7 times. I think it’s very well done. His editing is brilliant. He takes about 30 years of solid research from different people and showcases it under the umbrella of the Jim Garrison investigation. It provides a nice overview of all the questions pertaining to the JFK assassination.

What did you think of it?

532. JohnnieHF - January 16, 2013

Maybe the two men leaving the “canister” room are Kahn and his trusty sidekick Tatto.

533. Red Dead Ryan - January 16, 2013

#529.

He certainly did not look Indian. Poor choice of wig, perhaps. At least “Space Seed” attempted to make him look like an Indian, with the hair and gold jacket as well as the skin tone coloring.

534. MJ - January 16, 2013

@517 “so when you try to distract people’s attention away from that…”

I would not presume to try to distract you, Orci or Ballz from your assassination discussion.

Again, I am stating my opinion on why I am not all that impressed with JFK in general, which definitely is an unpopular opinion here. Sure, I get that I am hurting some folks feelings here.

535. MJ - January 16, 2013

@531 “He takes about 30 years of solid research from different people and showcases it under the umbrella of the Jim Garrison investigation.”

I have never bought into the lone investigator theory concerning Garrison.

536. dmduncan - January 16, 2013

533. Red Dead Ryan – January 16, 2013

You mean the mullet and the 80′s style bangs? Poor choice of wig at the least, my friend.

The overall visual sense in TWOK is SO dated. Love the movie though, and Nick Meyer is a fantastic storyteller.

537. K-7 - January 16, 2013

“I have never bought into the lone investigator theory concerning Garrison.”

Hilarious, MJ. Hilarious!

538. Commodore Adams - January 16, 2013

Great article on trekcore, part 6 interview with Robert Meyer Burnett who had his hands in many star trek series. All the previous parts 1-5 are insightful and interesting to read. What is interesting in part 6 are his thoughts on Star Trek 2009. And I share his opinion. I loved the movie, but its unintelligent compared to other trek, not a believable universe and it has many things thrown into it because jj wanted it, like Kirk ridding up to the enterprise.

Lets hope that Into Darkness rectifies this.

http://tng.trekcore.com/bluray/01162013_robmeyerburnett6.html

539. K-7 - January 16, 2013

It is rather humorously hypocritical that Harry Ballz is commending Oliver Stone for falsely showing all the investigations of the assassination attempt as being done by one man, when, on the other hand, Mr. Ballz insists over and over that we buy into multiple parties involved in the JFK shooting. I realize this is not a direct comparison, but nevertheless it is certainly ironic, isn’t it?

540. Harry Ballz - January 16, 2013

K-7

I will, with no hesitation, give you full credit for shooting your mouth off.

There is no second mouth shooting (at your subject of comment) from any other angle.

You are the lone shooter.

Now, if you had any ammunition involved in this shooting, well, then you’d have something.

541. Basement Blogger - January 16, 2013

I’m beginning to think satirist and Peabody Award winner Stephen Colbert is a bigger Trekker than he shows with various nods in his video pieces. Yesterday, he’s interviewing Tom Brokaw and he cites The Corbomite Maneuver. It’s not big news but it’s clear he thinks about Star Trek a lot. And remember he had a fun interview with J..J. Abrams and had him give a little voice over guest spot for Yom Kippur for Colbert’s Atone Phone. Link.

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/250397/september-28-2009/atone-phone—last-day-of-apologies

542. Red Dead Ryan - January 16, 2013

The fact is, none of us know the FULL STORY behind the JFK assassination. We know BITS and PIECES of it, but not who gave the order to kill the President, what that exact order was, how many were involved, LBJ’s alleged role in the conspiracy, etc.

The documents detailing the assassination and autopsy of JFK haven’t been released, at least not in full. And there is NO will on the part of the current U.S government to do so. I suspect that won’t change in the immediate future, either.

If those files were stored on a computer, Wikileaks could easily hack into them. But I suspect they are paper documents locked in a safe somewhere in CIA headquarters down in the basement where no one is looking.

So all we have to go on are some facts and clues, combined with speculation and theory.

Most of the people associated and/or linked to the killing are most likely dead, so we’re not going to get any testimony from anybody.

That leaves the documents, which clearly aren’t going to be released. At least not until the American people demand it.

543. LVAZ - January 17, 2013

Something that aways concern me: Isn´t beard sacred for Sikh? So how Kahn is clean shaved?! And Moltaban looks calcasian in TWOK. I don´t know if the ethnic background is so important for the caracter (if it is, is was wrong). He is a superman, a combination of DNA from a lot of persons… Or maybe John Harrison is hiding his identity (it´s a coincidence that in the Space Seed there was a John Harrison). I still betting that is Khan, not Joachim or another augument.. Nothing that I have seen so far contradict much that.

544. Son of Jello - January 17, 2013

TrekMovie is in desperate need of an update.

545. Jonboc - January 17, 2013

#540 “You are the lone shooter.

Now, if you had any ammunition involved in this shooting, well, then you’d have something.”

Lol

546. Son of Jello - January 17, 2013

I don’t know which article has had the most comments but for something to do can you try for 1000 before the next article its up to 544 more than half way there. Maybe you can come up with a set of rules about what can be commented on and make it a game. And I say this with good humor.

547. Son of Jello - January 17, 2013

Try drawing the Enterprise in the comments section by only using text.

548. Son of Jello - January 17, 2013

hhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hh
hhhhhhhh hhhhhhh hh
hhhhhhh hh
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

There you go do better than that. :)

549. Son of Jello - January 17, 2013

Damn it it reset all the text to the left hand colum it looked fine in the message box Damn it Damn it Damn it.

550. Son of Jello - January 17, 2013

TTTTTTTTTTTTTTToooooTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTooooooooooooooooooooooooTTTooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooTTooooooooooooooooooooooooTTTTTTTTTTTTTToooooooooTTTToooooTTTTTTTTTTTToooTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTooooTTTTTTTTTToooTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTooooTTTTTTTTToooTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTooooooooooooooooTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTToooooooooooooooooooooTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTooooooooooooooooTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTHopefully this has workedTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

551. James - January 17, 2013

Check out a sampler of the blooper reel for TNG season 2 that has been released by CBS!

http://ryesofthegeek.wordpress.com/

552. Son of Jello - January 17, 2013

that didnt work either Damn it again.

553. Son of Jello - January 17, 2013

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOEEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOEEOOOEEEEEEEEEEEEOOEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOOOEEEEEEEEEEEOOEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

554. Son of Jello - January 17, 2013

Damn it again.

555. Son of Jello - January 17, 2013

OOOOOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEOOOOOEEOOOOEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOEEOOOEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

556. Son of Jello - January 17, 2013

This is not working at all.

557. Son of Jello - January 17, 2013

I’ll try again tomorrow

558. BulletInTheFace - January 17, 2013

To those who keep complaining about a lack of updates on this site, citing recent articles on TrekWeb, TrekToday and TrekCore as proof of TrekMovie’s inadequacies:

Putting aside for a moment the absurd entitlement inherent to complaining about a lack of content on a FREE site, keep in mind the site’s name: TrekMOVIE. The focus of the other sites is the Star Trek universe in general. The focus here is the movies. When there’s news about the movies, Anthony posts it (again, for free, with no obligation on his part to post and no obligation on your part to read). When no movie news is available, the site naturally sometimes becomes quiet. Why people don’t get this is beyond me, but the constant whining is ridiculous.

559. crazydaystrom - January 17, 2013

531. Harry Ballz-
I think the film is brilliant. One of Stone’s best. As well as one of Gary Oldman’s’as Lee Harvey Oswald, best performances. I haven’t seen it in years but will be watching it again soon now that you guys have re-ignited my JFK assassination interest. And I want to watch The Men Who Killed Kennedy again.

And I agree with you or whoever said it, that another well done film on the subject would be successful. JFK, his presidency and assassination was a major turning point in this country every bit as much as the assassination of Lincoln, Pearl Harbor and the destruction on of the World Trade Center Towers, all of which still hold great interest many in this country and around the world. More so IMHO.

Also I remember having a one-issue newspaper/magazine, by Larry Flynt Publications, of all people, on relatively unknown facts about Kennedy’s assassination. What struck me was the large number of people who were connected, even peripherally, to the assassination or its investigation who died “suddenly” and/or “mysteriously”. Waaaay too many to be coincidences.

But that a conspiracy involving the murder of a POTUS could be kept under wraps so well and for so long does not surprise me at all. The safety and lives of anyone who might reveal ANY info would be at risk, as well as the safety and lives of their family members. And I’m not the first to point out – If they can kill the President, can anyone be out of their reach? The answer is no.

560. crazydaystrom - January 17, 2013

That’s *Gary Oldman’s, as Lee Harvey Oswald…*

561. T'Cal - January 17, 2013

Nothing new for a while. I was getting spoiled for a while there.

562. Craiger - January 17, 2013

#558 – If Anthony just wants to report only on the Trek movies, then he should take down “The Source For Everything New In Trek.” That means posting the type articles like Trekweb does in additon to Trek movie news.

563. LogicalLeopard - January 17, 2013

493. Aurore – January 16, 2013

Damon Lindenof is one of the writers of the new Trek. He was the person cited in the article about Cumberbatch that you or dmduncan referenced. I meant that we were in agreement with the changed dialogue for Cumberbatch’s character. I included Bob Orci, because he responded to my post on this page. I’m assuming that’s the real Bob Orci, because the moderator hasn’t posted otherwise.

564. NFLX - January 17, 2013

I’ll check back in two weeks.

565. LogicalLeopard - January 17, 2013

543. LVAZ – January 17, 2013
Something that aways concern me: Isn´t beard sacred for Sikh? So how Kahn is clean shaved?! And Moltaban looks calcasian in TWOK. I don´t know if the ethnic background is so important for the caracter (if it is, is was wrong). He is a superman, a combination of DNA from a lot of persons… Or maybe John Harrison is hiding his identity (it´s a coincidence that in the Space Seed there was a John Harrison). I still betting that is Khan, not Joachim or another augument.. Nothing that I have seen so far contradict much that.

**************************************

I think they McGivers stated that Khan was “possibly” a Sikh from northern India, not that he WAS a Sikh from Northern India. She then drew/painted him with a turban. He didn’t necessarily have to be a Sikh. His name doesn’t necessarily have to be Khan Noonien Singh, that could be what he called himself or was known as. Records from that time were considered to be fragmented, I believe, probably because they never invented Wikipedia or TMZ in the Trek Universe.

As far as his paler appearance in TWOK, one could justify that as a side effect of his time on Ceti Alpha whichever number it was, or illness. Or maybe that’s his original color, and he was tanned before he was put in hibernation.

Also, note, there was not a “John Harrison” in Space Seed, there was a “Harrison” who never had a first name, played by Ron Veto, who was of Hawaiian descent. http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Harrison

As far as John Harrison, my theory I’m sticking to is that he’s neither Khan or an Botany Bay Augment, but a Starfleet officer who has augmented himself using genetic engineering, possibly influenced by studying the Botany Bay augments.

566. Aurore - January 17, 2013

“….. my theory I’m sticking to is that he’s neither Khan or an Botany Bay Augment….”
________

I concur.

567. Aurore - January 17, 2013

563. LogicalLeopard – January 17, 2013
493. Aurore – January 16, 2013

Damon Lindenof is one of the writers of the new Trek. He was the person cited in the article about Cumberbatch that you or dmduncan referenced. I meant that we were in agreement with the changed…..
_____

:))

I was joking!

You said *Lindenof*.

His name is Lindelof….

568. BulletInTheFace - January 17, 2013

#562: Or, hey, you could go elsewhere if you’re unhappy with how this FREE FAN SITE is managed.

569. Curious Cadet - January 17, 2013

@565/566 LogicalLeopard/Aurore,
“my theory I’m sticking to is that he’s neither Khan or an Botany Bay Augment, but a Starfleet officer …”

I must admit, this seems to be the most plausible explanation, since I don’t know how a Botany Bay survivor plausibly becomes “an average guy in Starfleet”.

I’m still not convinced he has any superior physical abilities other than being exceptionally well trained. And the offer to save the girl may simply be snake-oil designed to get what he needs from Clarke’s character, he may not actually save the girl at all.

So how do you think John Harrison is connected to canon? That’s actually the biggest mystery to me if he doesn’t come from the Botany Bay.

570. BulletInTheFace - January 17, 2013

#543: Khan has NEVER looked Caucasian. That’s ridiculous.

And no, there was not a “John Harrison” in “Space Seed.” There was a “Harrison,” first name unknown.

571. Spiked Canon - January 17, 2013

530. BulletInTheFace and boborci

The reason I posted the “dumbest, most baseless theory on this thread” is to point out how I feel about all the other baseless theories.

The more you say something, the more it becomes reality.

Orci, Sure is amazing that after 50 years all the people of your so called JFK conspiracy haven’t come forth with indisputable truth. And in regards to Al Quaeda acting alone—that was in response to Zeitgeist lies

572. LogicalLeopard - January 17, 2013

And as for my favorite theory, which is probably not true, but I HOPE is true, is that he’s……SYBOK!!!!

Blastr said that he stated one of his lines from the movie is “I can help you” , which I think he said in the 9 minute preview. Maybe another line is, “SHARE IT WITH ME!!!!” *LOL*

Maybe he’s surgically altered himself to pass as a human to exact revenge on Starfleet for failing to protect Vulcan. Sounds flimsy, I know, but maybe Starfleet had some intelligence on Nero’s plan to blow up (in?) Vulcan from his time in the Klingon prison camp. Maybe he goes to Qo’noS to see if it’s true.

Being Vulcan would explain his strength and intelligence. And maybe that’s why Spock’s chasing him and jumping off of buildings to get to him.

Like I said, I don’t think there’s much chance of this happening, but if it does, I’ll be the only one in the theater cheering, most likely *LOL*

573. LogicalLeopard - January 17, 2013

567. Aurore – January 17, 2013

Yeah, but in the mirror universe, it’s probably Lindenof *LOL* And, he has a goatee.

574. Spock's Bangs - January 17, 2013

#552. “– If Anthony just wants to report only on the Trek movies, then he should take down “The Source For Everything New In Trek.”

If Anthony wants to hype his site as the source for all of Wiily Wonka’s secret recipes…and put it under a picture of a Gorn, he can. It’s his site to do with it as he pleases. Your job is to either come here, or not. If you don’t like it, don’t show up and bitch about it. Just go away.

575. Basement Blogger - January 17, 2013

@ 558

Bulletintheface,

Any blogger or website wants traffic. Yes, this is a free site, but take a look at the right and at the top of the screen. TrekMovie RUNS ADS. You get revenue by people clicking on the ads. How do I know this? I blog with ads. And it ain’t that lucrative unless you’re site has a ton of traffic. So this site is a business and you want traffic. If you don’t post new information, people stop coming to your site. Period. And from my reading about blogging, one should post three articles a week. I try to post every day and I still have a tiny audience.

Craiger makes an accurate point. (@ 562) This site says at the top, “the source for everything new in Trek.” It has always covered everything in Trek. Heck, this site has even talked about the defunct TOS video game The Secret of Vulcan Fury. The failure of the game was one of my Trek disappointments. A site dedicated only to Star Trek movies would likely die on the vine. There’s not enough information to post multiple times weekly.

People that complain care about this site. When the customers complain, business will respond less they lose their business. So I don’t have a problem with the fans of this site complaining about the lack of activity.

576. Aurore - January 17, 2013

“So how do you think John Harrison is connected to canon?…”
______

I don’t know.

That is why I ENJOY reading all the different theories suggested online….hoping that none of them are close to the story in store for us.

I want to be surprised.

Bryan Burk owes me an “original, unique and different story”.

The dude had better deliver on his promise….

577. Aurore - January 17, 2013

“Yeah, but in the mirror universe, it’s probably Lindenof *LOL* And, he has a goatee.”
_____

:))

Oh, absolutely!

He has a goatee…and long hair too!

A “beautiful”ponytail à la Khan, in Space Seed…

578. LogicalLeopard - January 17, 2013

569. Curious Cadet – January 17, 2013

I must admit, this seems to be the most plausible explanation, since I don’t know how a Botany Bay survivor plausibly becomes “an average guy in Starfleet”.
**************************

Well, actually there is a way. If they found the Botany Bay sufficiently early, say about 15-20 years ago, if one of the augments, including Khan, were to escape, they’d have more than enough time to acclimate themselves to the current century, devise a plan to gain power, create a false identity, and infiltrate Starfleet. Their physical characteristics will pick up on a medical scan, but I figure an augment can find a way around an entrance physical and a yearly physical (perhaps an emitter placed on their person to transmit false readings to tricorders/scanners, or by hacking into the medical system.). Khan was smart enough to figure out how to work the Enterprise after reading the manuals over a very short amount of time. So the augment gets into Starfleet, pulls a “Clark Kent”, sort of a regular guy routine, and then once he’s got sufficient information to cripple the fleet, does so at an opportune time to pull his hijinks on Earth and possibly Qo’noS. And if the augment was Khan, plastic surgery should be a relatively easy thing, and a wise precaution. They might even have take home kits from Walmart.

**************************************

I’m still not convinced he has any superior physical abilities other than being exceptionally well trained. And the offer to save the girl may simply be snake-oil designed to get what he needs from Clarke’s character, he may not actually save the girl at all.

**************************

I thought Cumberbatch said something about him having superior physical abilities. Of course, comments can be interpreted in different ways. Kobe Bryant may have amazing or superior physical abilities, but he’s still a baseline human. And as far as the clip, I still think he’s wearing a rocket pack in that leap on Qo’noS. It looks like you can see sparks or flame at the beginning of the jump, then a blue glow on his back moment before he concludes the jump. And the gun could be gravity tech assisted. Imagine how useful that would be with large weapons in the future; a huge gun with antigravity panels and inertial dampeners to assist with portability and recoil (if it has recoil, like from a projectile/explosive launcher).

***************************
So how do you think John Harrison is connected to canon? That’s actually the biggest mystery to me if he doesn’t come from the Botany Bay.

***************************

That’s the problem. There’s only four options:

1) John Harrison is “Harrison” from Space Seed and other TOS episodes. In this case, the physical resemblance/racial makeup between the actors is an obstruction, so I’m not sure how likely this is.

2) John Harrison is another major or minor NAMED Trek character, from TOS, the movies, or possibly even TNG or later series THAT CHANGED HIS NAME for some reason. The most likely character in that case is probably Khan or another augment

3) John Harrison is an unamed character from Star Trek that we’ve all probably overlooked, perhaps someone who walked through a hallway, got blasted by an alien, or even possibly was referenced and not seen, in a sort of “My grandfather served on the Enterprise” way. This is sort of cheap (unless it’s some mysterious character that fits perfectly), and I don’t know if this is a likely possiibility.

3) John Harrison is NOT canon, and it was a mistake or misdirection on the part of whoever said that. Please note that I absolve myself of any guilt of “Libeling Orci” (which is an excellent band name, by the way).

4) John Harrison is referred to as being canon because his character will appear in the comics before the movie, and thus will be considered “canon” for this universe. This is a pretty cheap option as well.

579. LogicalLeopard - January 17, 2013

577. Aurore – January 17, 2013

And every time he writes, he takes a deep, quick breath and presses his hands together, like Space Seed Khan did before he used his tremendous strength to open the door *LOL*

580. Basement Blogger - January 17, 2013

Bob Orci,

Where’s Bob Orci when you need him? Okay, got to do the chant to get him over here. “JFK was killed by a lone gunman. JFK was killed by a lone gunman. JFK was killed by a lone gunman. I summon thee Bob Orci. ”

Anyway, Bob here’s some UFO news about sightings around the moon. And the article posts video comments by Buzz Aldrin that Apollo 11 was followed by an UFO?!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/16/ufos-on-the-moon_n_2482840.html

581. TrekMadeMeWonder - January 17, 2013

Buzz Aldrin’s comments have always been taken out of context.

The UFO he mentions was unidentified, and as I recall, they thought it was a spent rocket stage. Nothing more. I like that he is smailing when he talks about it. BTW, UFO? I think we know what that means.

The link you provided to the moon anomaly does not show much. It could easily be a laser pointer on a projection screen recorded with a video camera.

Extreme claims require verifiable proof, BB.

582. Craiger - January 17, 2013

#575 – Well said BB. If Anthony just wants to cover the Trek movie news I have no problem with that and will go Trekweb for Trek news since they cover more than just Trek movie news. I think he should state if he doesn’t care about reporting all Trek news anymore. Trekweb has had about 15 news articles since this site took a break again. Or if Anthony doesn’ have to to run this site full time anymore he should state also.

583. Randy H. - January 17, 2013

#582 – Well said.

584. Craiger - January 17, 2013

#583, Thanks. I tend to type too fast. My last line I should have said:

If Anthony has other things to do and can’t run this site full time anymore he should state that and I would have no problem with that either.

585. MONGO - January 17, 2013

Anthony mans gone again! No new article!

THIS DISASTER!

586. Thebiggfrogg - January 17, 2013

Trekmovie into Darkness

587. Phil - January 17, 2013

Well, for all the slobbering over Trekweb, really, all they have posted is filler for the last couple of weeks, too. Old interviews, fan art, etc…which is stuff that tended to not show up here to begin with. That, and the format of the site is still seizure inducing. Look at the comments over on the Trekweb post…oh, wait, there aren’t any.

588. K-7 - January 17, 2013

“If those files were stored on a computer, Wikileaks could easily hack into them. But I suspect they are paper documents locked in a safe somewhere in CIA headquarters down in the basement where no one is looking.”

Yes Red Dead, those records are in the third packing crate from the top in a pile of 14 crates, that are two 2 rows south and 43 feet east of the crate where the CIA stores the Ark of the Covenant that Indiana Jones found in 1937.

589. K-7 - January 17, 2013

#559. Yes, JFK is a very good movie. It’s right up there with The Two Towers, Excalibur, HP and the DH – Part 2, and Game of Thrones (both seasons).

590. Spiked Canon - January 17, 2013

589. all fiction movies :-)

591. Jai - January 17, 2013

Like DMDuncan, I’ve generally decided to disregard the usual ignorant/misinformed comments about Khan when it comes to Indians, Sikhs, race and religion.

But sometimes the nonsense on Trekmovie piles up so much that it needs a response, especially as Bob Orci is also here.

I’m sure this’ll still be ignored by some people, and the same arguments will be repeated down the line despite how many times people like me and DM make these points. But I should say a few words anyway.

So, as a guy who actually is a North Indian Sikh, let me clarify a couple of things once again…

Re: #499:

“Therefore, the Northern Indian comment had to be based on appearance, most likely color of his skin. And while a Northern Indian can look like a Caucasian man, that was not the intent here. Indeed we have been told by John Tenuto that the part was changed from a Scandinavian character to an Indian character specifically because Montalban was cast. However, since Montalban has such Indo European characteristics, i.e. not classic Indian features, then Northern India makes the most sense for his particular color and features. I can imagine such a discussion being had among the writers as to explain why Montalban looked neither Asian, nor Indian.”

As someone recently wrote on another thread: “I…couldn’t…disagree…more”.

The majority of Sikhs are Punjabi, and about 60% of Indian Punjabis are Sikhs. Ricardo Montalban actually looked “classically Punjabi” in Space Seed. It’s not just about skin colour — although Montalban was noticeably plastered in brownface makeup to make him “look more Indian” — it’s also about facial features. Here are a couple of famous Bollywood movie stars who are Punjabis and are regarded as handsome in a “classically Punjabi” sense, Akshay Kumar and Hritihik Roshan: http://www.santabanta.com/photos/akshay-kumar/8012009.htm, http://www.pinkvilla.com/node/140648, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsObYH9TkQo&feature=player_embedded

So Ricardo Montalban *did* look “classically Indian” in Space Seed – specifically “classically Punjabi”. People who don’t realise that have obviously either had very limited exposure to Punjabis or they have a very stereotyped (and inaccurate) idea of what “classic Indian features” actually are.

Yes, Punjabis (and North Indians in general) who look like Space Seed’s Montalban or Akshay Kumar and Hrithik Roshan are originally descended from Indo-Europeans and Indo-Iranians, but in the majority of cases their families have been Indian for thousands of years, and the number of such people is huge enough for those kinds of features to have become the very definition of the classic North Indian appearance.

Re: #543:

“Isn´t beard sacred for Sikh? So how Kahn is clean shaved?!”

The beard is only compulsory for baptised Sikhs. It’s often kept by other Sikhs because it’s one of the outer symbols connected to the Khalsa (look it up), and these things are among the ideals Sikhs are supposed to aspire to. The majority of Sikhs around the world aren’t baptised.

Millions of Sikhs around the world don’t wear turbans, beards and uncut hair, including the majority of Sikhs in the West. This is also increasingly common in India, especially among younger guys, and it was already very common in the Indian movie and music industry.

Khan is not exactly the most devout Sikh around, especially when it comes to some of the religion’s higher ideals for ethics and warfare, so his lack of a beard etc shouldn’t be a surprise either. Basically the guy isn’t a “practising Sikh”.

Oh, and Khan *was* wearing a turban (although obviously not for pious reasons) when he captured Chekov in TWOK. In fact it was a classic *Sikh* style of turban; I was impressed with the filmmakers’ attention to detail when I noticed that.

592. Jai - January 17, 2013

DMDuncan — I’ve just posted a comment on the Burk/Cumberbatch thread belatedly responding to some of your points there.

593. BulletInTheFace - January 17, 2013

#582: There’s no such thing as “He should…” He should only do what he wants. It’s HIS site–and you come here for free. And that means it doesn’t matter what you or anyone else here thinks he should do. If he wants to rename the site “TrekCondom.com” and proclaim that it covers “Everything related to apple sauce, puppies, Edsels and Superman,” then there’d be nothing wrong with that since it’s HIS. FREE. SITE.

All of you CONSTANTLY bitching about this are ridiculous. If you’re so unhappy about it, leave. You’re only making yourself look bad, not Anthony.

594. BulletInTheFace - January 17, 2013

#591: That was an excellent post. You should really consider writing an article about that topic for this site. There are a LOT of inaccurate posts being made here about Northern Indian Sikhs, by people who think they know what they’re talking about but really don’t. It would be great to see someone do a write-up about why Khan DID look like a Sikh Indian, to set the record straight.

595. crazydaystrom - January 17, 2013

572. LogicalLeopard –
“And as for my favorite theory, which is probably not true, but I HOPE is true, is that he’s……SYBOK!!!!”
I am in TOTAL concurance with you on this! I’ve said it here and on other Trek sites, well at least one other, for years now how awesome I think it would be to depict an interesting, badass NuSybok in this rebooted Trek universe. Not because of any particular love for the character or TFF, because it would be so unexpected by most fans. Especially the ones so caught up in the Khan/augment/Mitchell/Garth/April mixer.

And for those who ask “Why use a character from one of the least liked Trek movies?”, by my reasoning that is all the more reason TO do it. Though I do know it’s more financially beneficial to create a character than to use another’s creation but hasn’t been established that the character is canon? At least I thought it was.

In any case I said years ago if I were writing the sequel the story would be a combination of TFF and the ep This Way to Eden with Sybok replacing the Dr. Sevrin character. A nutty idea I admit but there are more than a couple of indicators that Cumberbatch’s character could be Sybok. If he’s not and if Sybok’s never revisited I think Bad Robot’s missing a great opportunity to really flip things on it’s head in the new alt-Trekverse.

596. Red Dead Ryan - January 17, 2013

#595.

I don’t think Sybok is the villain in the sequel. Sybok just wasn’t that interesting of a character to begin with.

#591.

Did Khan really wear a Sikh turban in TWOK? I’ll have to rewatch that movie soon.

I thought it was more of a generic cloth that he, and his henchmen, wore to protect themselves from the sand.

Nice post, by the way.

597. Red Dead Ryan - January 17, 2013

Bulletintheface,

Your attitude on this thread is uncalled for. I don’t know what your problem is, but for starters, I would suggest stop standing in front of a firing gun. :-)

598. LogicalLeopard - January 17, 2013

595 Red Dead Ryan

I don’t think he’s the villian either, but I think he was a very interesting character. First of all, he’s a Vulcan who is not only fully in touch with his emotions, he’s very balanced and not prone to homicide as ancient Vulcans appeared to be. The whole mind meld therapy thing was pretty interesting too. And as far as “vililans” go, he was out of the norm because he was likable, principled to a degree, not over the top, and actually helped a bunch of people deal with their issues. There’s a debate on whether or not those people were “brainwashed,” but you know, I don’t think it was ever implied that he did anything other than free them from mental anguish regarding past issues and told them about his cause.

I think there was a whole stink about Star Trek V because it mentioned God, which is ridiculous. It doesn’t appear that many people complain about the Jesus reference at the end of Bread and Circuses, but then again, that’s probably because they didn’t catch it. STV is one of the best of the movies in my opinion, hands down.

599. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 17, 2013

His name is Damon LINDELOF – just saying…

600. THX-1138 - January 17, 2013

LogicalLeopard

I sure hope it’s not Sybok. There is a lot of stuff I can deal with in TFF. After all I’m a Trek fan. Suspending belief or disbelief and other such matters comes with the territory.

But Spock having a half brother that he never told his best friends about because they never asked was absolutely ridiculous. It came off to me as totally out of character. And thusly took me completely out of the movie. I do rewatch TFF as the rest of the movie, (at least to me) isn’t that bad in terms of a Trek story. I like the idea that there isn’t a true villain. We never did find out the motivations for the “God” being other than he wanted off that rock. He acted violently because of it. But at least he wasn’t seeking revenge, as far as we know. The Planet of Galactic Peace was sort of ham handed and came off as something taken from one of the lesser Trek pulp novels, but whatevs.

But Sybok. Erff. I just sort of cover my ears and go “Yah yah yah can’t hear you can’t hear you” when Spock tells Kirk who Sybok is.

601. BulletInTheFace - January 17, 2013

#600: It’s absolutely in character for Spock not to tell them about Sybok. He never tells them anything about himself, unless circumstances force it (his parents being Sarek and Amanda, his having a pet teddy bear, his pon farr, etc.). Plus, Sybok was a source of shame for him–of course he wouldn’t have told anyone about it.

602. Phil - January 17, 2013

9 days…still no updates.

603. Phil - January 17, 2013

@602. Well, this is confusing. I don’t tend to count the number of days without an update.

And no to Sybok. Just a bad idea at so many levels….and we would not want Trek13 tainted with Trek5 in any way, shape or form…

604. crazydaystrom - January 17, 2013

596. Red Dead Ryan -
“#595.

I don’t think Sybok is the villain in the sequel. Sybok just wasn’t that interesting of a character to begin with.”

I agree, even though I did like Laurence Luckinbill’s performance. But the point is NuSybok COULD be a VERY interesting character. Certainly every bit as interesting as ‘John Harrison’. (Think about it.) I can think of as many reasons FOR a Sybok appearance as against. And all (slim) evidence points as much to Sybok as to ANY other character that are ‘popular candidates’, if not more so-
-His apparent greater that human strength.
-His apparent ability to resist the Vulcan neck pinch.
-Harrison’s offer to help/heal, while not the same as Sybok’s ‘sharing of pain’, is certainly reminiscent

And I know it’s been brought up before but consider this – ‘The Wrath of Khan-ian’ palm-to-palm through the glass doesn’t have to be Kirk and Spock (though I admit it most likely is), it could quite easily and logically be a Spock/Sybok Vulcan communication…a brotherly Vulcan communication.

And with the planet Vulcan now destroyed an admittedly and proudly ‘emotional Vulcan’ might just have more than a little on his mind. He might be downright PISSED OFF!

Now all that said, I would be nearly as surprised as anyone else if Harrison turns out to be Sybok but I would definitely be more pleased.

605. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 17, 2013

#514 – I was not directing my comments specifically at you. I apologize if you thought that. It was this comment –
“Maybe God was tired of seeing JFK bang multiple skanks while he was President, and let down his beautiful wife and family. Maybe God was insulted by the fraud known as JFK.”

These kinds of comments made about well known people are all over the internet and often are used to justify unfair treatment of people.

The other one was to do with what JFK might have done if he lived, like going into Vietnam. Because NOW the US involvement in Vietnam between the years 1965? and 1975 is seen as a very big mistake, the notion that JFK could have been behind such political/military intervention in another country appears to nullify the wrongness his assassination somewhat – at least, that is how it came across to me. It was not just to do with any comments you made, MJ.

#509 – Why are you so angry at me? I am not responsible for the way US presidents get elected. The impression I have, and no doubt the vast majority of US citizens have, is that their vote do count for something and that collectively they are as much responsible for the election of a president as are the votes of the “Electoral College”. If this is clearly not the case, then the US people need to correct this. Why aren’t you?

A little revisionist history going on here? I think you will find that the majority of Americans were OK with troops being sent to Vietnam, in order to stop the Communist spread or because they were too ignorant and apathetic to care either way.

What happened in the 60′s was a change in the way people saw themselves and that came about through music, art, a clamour to stop racial segregation and other forms of racism and the first truly effective contraceptive pill! Space travel became a real possibility…These new *freedoms and ideas happened among youth mostly – youth generally being more idealistic than their elders (although I am not seeing it today really).

Then the first pictures came back from Vietnam, showing some of the horrors of war in about 1968. I still remember seeing a film of a naked Vietnamese girl running with her back in flames – she had been napalmed.
A minority of people started questioning what was going on over in Vietnam and why the US was there in the first place. Most were young. As more bodies of US soldiers were brought back for burial and even more soldiers were sent, conscription became even more necessary and many young men chose not to go and faced imprisonment or went under protest. More and more people started openly opposing the war.

By the time 1975 came around, the Viet Cong had shown themselves unbeatable, the world had become more and more pissed with the US military occupation in a small nation on the other side of the world and with the atrocities perpetrated on ordinary peasant civilians (many of whom could neither read or write) by the most powerful nation on earth (the North did their share as well – to be sure). The US finally pulled out of Vietnam in 1975 with much blood, shame and disgrace on their faces. The returning soldiers, many of them injured and many of whom were conscripted, became America’s scapegoats. As long as those men were out of sight and mind, then the nation could save face.

NZ and Australia share in some of that shame as our nations were the ones who fought with the US in Vietnam under the ANZUS Treaty.

* Freedom is relative…

606. crazydaystrom - January 17, 2013

AND
It’s the love of Khan and TWOK that for the most part has so many suspecting, leaning towards and wanting Khan to be in the new movie and the general dislike of TFF that has many not suspecting or wanting a Sybok appearance. But I suggest that neither that love nor that dislike will be a factor in the quality of the new movie or of the Cumberbatch’s character. That will be determined by the quality of the writing.

607. Basement Blogger - January 17, 2013

@ 593

Bulletintheface,

You need to relax. I’ll follow my own advice, not be hypocritical and this time I’ll refrain from pressing the CAPITAL KEY BUTTON. OOPS,
SORRY. :-) Craiger’s just expressing an opinion. If you don’t like his opinion,don’t read it. And trust me about being objective, Craiger and I have some bitter fights. I say this to anyone who hates me, please disagree but it you get upset, ignore my post.

You like to belabor the point that this is a free site. Yes, Anthony can do nothing. Rename the site “TrekCondom.com. ” (Your phrase.) Sigh. But again, look to the right and above. What do you see? Ads. That means the site wants traffic. It wants the regulars and others to come to this site.

It’s like a broadcast TV show. Yep, they’re free to watch. But let’s take a show that people love the first few episodes but the fans have problems with. The show ignores the fans. The show loses fans. No viewers. Network cancels show because of low viewership. You see fans are customers. Ignore your fans or customers at your own risk.

Sigh. I’m a blogger. I have a dream to be the next Perez Hilton. :-) I know that if I don’t post articles regularly, there’s no way for my dream to come true and make a million bucks. I also run ads. If I decide to stop writing there’s no way I’m going to make any money. Okay, I don’t make any money now. Websites and bloggers must regularly post for traffic. But let’s assume that I stop posting. If my one fan says I should write more, he would be right. My choice would defeat my desire for ad revenue. I would probably lose my one regular too.

Craiger cares about this site. That’s a good thing. It’s better than apathy. If you don’t like what he has to say and it upsets you, ignore it. Trust me, you’ll be happier.

608. Remington Steele - January 17, 2013

Sweet, back to the pettiness of sniping about lack of updates and US history/politics/foreign policy!

Ha ha, pathetic!

609. Trekmovie Classifieds - January 17, 2013

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610. Robman007 - January 17, 2013

Has anyone starting building the new Polar Lights Enterprise kit? Some great youtube videos out there to help with making it as accurate as possible. Started mine up and working on getting it ready for the light system (the warp engine “caps”)…tons of fun, especially while listening to the 15disc TOS box set.

611. Robman007 - January 17, 2013

oh, and for the modeling types out there, Revell (German model company) is making a 1/500 scale JJ Enterprise, due out in May.

If the JJ prise is larger then the TOS model, I expect this 1/500 scale kit will be the same length as the QMX kit (about 3 feet long).

612. LogicalLeopard - January 17, 2013

600. THX-1138 – January 17, 2013
LogicalLeopard

But Spock having a half brother that he never told his best friends about because they never asked was absolutely ridiculous. It came off to me as totally out of character.

***************

I seem to remember that in Journey to Babel, Kirk didn’t initially know that Sarek and Amanda were Spock’s parents. Which in itself is weird, because you would have thought Kirk would have read the personnel file of his first officer, especially one with such an interesting heritage. He also didn’t want to tell anyone about his ponn farr, even the medical staff. But anway, I understand that it was early in their relationship, but he didn’t even tell that. I think it’s totally in character for Spock not to tell Bones and Kirk about a half brother who is basically an outcast and a disappointment. It’s like, if you had a half brother that you weren’t raised with who ran away and joined the Taliban, how many people would you tell? But even still, you might tell others because you’re human. With Spock, when was the subject going to come up? Spock never seemed particularly interested in idle conversation, I can’t see him sitting around the dinner table and saying, “Hey, did I ever tell you about my half brother?”

*************************

The Planet of Galactic Peace was sort of ham handed and came off as something taken from one of the lesser Trek pulp novels, but whatevs.

**************************

It was a good idea, but probably failed in execution. I just didn’t understand why there were no showers, toothbrushes, or washing machines on the planet.

613. BulletInTheFace - January 17, 2013

#607. Thanks for that answer–which doesn’t in any way affect my comment about people sniping at a site that offers them free content.

614. Trekmovie Classifieds - January 17, 2013

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615. LogicalLeopard - January 17, 2013

609. Trekmovie Classifieds – January 17, 2013

*LOL*

616. BulletInTheFace - January 17, 2013

#614: I love your posts, man. Always hilarious.

617. Trekmovie Classifieds - January 17, 2013

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618. Curious Cadet - January 17, 2013

@591 Jai,
“As someone recently wrote on another thread: “I…couldn’t…disagree…more”.

Touché. However, it seems like you disagree with only one thing — my definition of “classic Indian features”, which indeed you refine as “classically Punjabi” with respect to Montalban. And that’s exactly what I said. Indeed I gave the writers credit for presumably having this exact discussion about where Montalban’s character might be from in the Middle East and Asia. But that was also the context in which I define “classic” — i.e. Hollywood circa 1966. Perhaps I should have used “stereotype” instead. The irony here is I have followed your previous admonitions about ethnicity in India and they have been enlightening, and indeed I have further taken them to heart and applied them in this case. However, I would suggest that in 1966 the general US population perceived the classic Indian sterotype as being a whole lot darker and a whole lot less European than Montalban. If you disagree with that, fine. But I was around in the 70s and that was my ill-informed perceptions of Indians then through media. Indeed one only needs turn to the Simpsons to see this stereotype is alive and well in the character of Apu. Want more proof, just Google “Generic Indian Guy”.

Bottom line, I completely agree with you, and indeed said exactly what you did, that Montalban has characteristic Northern Indian features which is why the writers chose those lines of dialogue. And in context, taking it on face value alone, for McGivers to identify him as being from Northern India, it had to be based on more than his European features. Had he looked like Cumberbatch it is likely she wouldn’t have made that claim. So I assert his skin color is the deciding factor in her determination, especially in light of the writer’s change of origin for the character following Montalban being cast, and his less than subtle makeup job. And as such, to the extent the Supreme Court is following canon, why Cumberbatch should not be khan.

I hope John Tenuto is eventually able to give us a complete background of how Space Seed evolved, particularly why they wouldn’t just place Montalban in Central or South America and call it a day. While he may have looked like he was from Northern India, I’m pretty sure his accent isn’t typical of that region.

619. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 17, 2013

I agree that it is totally in keeping with what we know about Spock to not mention Sybok to Kirk or anyone else. That is the most rational of all of Spock’s non-disclosure about himself.

Not disclosing to the Enterprise’s Chief Medical Officer, Dr McCoy, about the possibility of him experiencing Pon Farr when he must be fully aware of what might happen to his mental stability should he enter into it, was just so irresponsible and ultimately illogical. Whether he had an older half-brother who was ostracized by Vulcan society or that he had a teddy bear is neither here nor there.

Anyway, after all that of vulcan and human interaction and study, I am surprised, even shocked, that vulcan biology and sexual reproduction would not be known at least by a Starfleet medical physician. Amok Time was just so silly, pathetic, in that respect.

620. Trekmovie Classifieds - January 17, 2013

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621. Basement Blogger - January 17, 2013

@ 581

TMMW,

A few things here. I’ve researched Aldrin’s comments and you make a good point about context. Aldrin says his UFO comments were taken out of context according to Wikipedia. Link It’s interesting to note that he made similar comments to the Science Channel and asked them to clarify but SC refused. Link. See, I can find some points of agreement. By the way, I’m old. It’s the first time I’ve seen Aldrin’s old comments. Hey these Internets confuse me. :-) By the way, Astronaut Gordon Cooper has seen UFOs. Link.

I posted (@ 580) the UFOs around the moon for Bob Orci. We both love the topic. My Orci chant is not working. So let me try this again. “JFK was killed by a lone gunman. I summon thee Bob Orci.” Says three times.

Anyway, I make no claims that the article is good evidence of UFOs or anything else. Frankly, there needs to better evidence to corroborate the photos. For example, see nineties Belgian UFO sightings. The Belgian sightings had scrambled fighter jets, radar hits, witnesses, photos.

You make this comment, “The UFO he mentions was unidentified.” Exactly. It could be alien craft. time traveling human, space junk or panels from the Apollo 11 craft. One thing it’s not. It wasn’t natural. However, don’t misunderstand me. In my opinion, ninety per cent of sightings are explainable.

1. Link. Aldrin says UFO comments are out of context.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buzz_Aldrin#UFO_claims

2. Link. Astronaut Gordon Cooper has seen UFOs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Cooper#UFO_sightings

622. So tired - January 17, 2013

@605. You know absolutely nothing about life in the US during the 60s, or now, and your ideas of what the counter-culture movement in the 60s was about are laughable, as is what you think about the opinions of the general population towards Vietnam, and citizens of this country have been calling for the dismantling of the Electoral College for over a century, it won’t happen, because it is how the power mongers stay in control. Absolutely no revisionist history of any kind going on here, simply blunt statements of fact. Also the majority of Americans do not in fact think their votes matter, because the majority don’t vote, voter turn out for elections in this country has been below 50 percent of the population for decades, not saying that is good or bad, it just is. I think the last two elections edged just above that, but then again there are reports of voter fraud from all over the country, so who knows if that is true or not.

For the record I am not at all mad, simply tired of people who know nothing trying to act like they do, it’s like Paris Hilton trying to explain quantum physics, or Kim Kardashian doing absolutely anything that requires clothes, or Brittney Spears singing, if you know anything about the subject matter it is immediately obvious how little they know, and most people find that irritating, tiring, and laughable (in a “if I don’t laugh I’ll cry” kind of way).

Like a few years ago when Richard Pryor was given the Mark Twain Award for comedy, and one of the “African American” comedians that was there made a joke about Pryor meeting Twain, and had “Twain” calling Pryor a ni–er, (like the majority of the US population in the 1800s would have), despite the fact that Twain was an outspoken opponent of such ethnically based behavior (he used the word in his books mostly as part of making points, read “A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur’s Court” sometime), and he was opposed to “American Imperialism”. Obviously the comedian making the joke only knew that Twain was white, and lived during and after the American Civil War, a little research might have made his material funny instead of groan and anger inducing.

623. Craiger - January 17, 2013

BB’s right, I am really not complaining, I do care about what happens to this once great Trek site. It was fun when people from the Trek industry, new and old would come in here and chat when articles would be posted with what they were up to and you could chat with them. I even got one of my questions answered once by JJ when they did that chat during the shooting of ST 2009. Now this site isn’t like that anymore. Its lost its edge.

624. KJ trekker - January 17, 2013

Only four months to go!

625. Bob Tompkins - January 17, 2013

Once more into the Nexus, where time between posts has no meaning….

626. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 17, 2013

#609 – I agree with your comment re sniping about lack of updates.

Re – discussion of (US) history/politics/foreign policy – Is not Starfleet about foreign policy and the exercise of that foreign policy as designated by the United Federation of Planets? Is Starfleet a *peace*keeping armada? I hate that word ‘armada’ – it has the stench of military might is right smeared all over it. Think of another word, Bob Orci and co, for STID, unless that is what this alternate universe Starfleet is…UGH!!!

Writers can only write around events, ideas, people as they were or are as of now. Good writers can project likely outcomes of what is or has been into the near or far future. The science-fiction aspect of Star Trek, I would think, would be the most difficult to translate into layman terms – as in quantum mechanics, astro-physics, new engineering and other technologies which require much knowledge and understanding of subjects like applied mathematics and physics. Not even the *experts* in these subjects are in agreement over possible future outcomes.

Anyway, ultimately it has to be about people and what they do with these new technologies etc. Whether changes in the way ordinary people see and relate to themselves and others can happen, eg can 90% of people become genuinely kinder? Can the fundamental human nature within one (or many individuals change), transform itself or are we always going to deal with being drawn down into the seemingly bottomless pit of depression, despair, sadistic and masochistic motivations and act upon them?

Perhaps this is what some might refer to as Keachick’s nonsensical ramblings (I really don’t know actually). Anyway, what say you to what I have written above, Bob Orci?

Oh, and by the way, if I did not say it before to everyone, Happy New Year! I know 17 days into 2013 and a bit belated, but better late than never, so I’m told.

627. Red Dead Ryan - January 17, 2013

I might be wrong, but I’m pretty sure the majority of Americans were opposed to Vietnam right from the start. The anti-Vietnam protests were a big part of the massive social movement in the sixties.

628. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 17, 2013

Yes, tired, you are very angry at me. No, I have not lived in the US, although I have visited it twice, briefly. I get my impressions about the US, as I suspect, most other people living outside the US do, through the news media, television series like Star Trek, Boston Legal, NCIS, SVU, CSI and a host of other television shows, as well as watching US made movies over the years. The resounding impression I have (erroneously, it seems) is that the United States of America is a democratic nation, where a person’s vote does count, and where the electoral system is basically fair. After all, is that not how a country defines itself as being a DEMOCRACY?

If you are going to have a go at anybody, then it should be your own international news media in all its forms, along with all the Hollywood makers of movies and television shows. What – is all that I have watched been lies?

I do not believe I have written much in the way of crap re the 1960′s in the US or elsewhere. That is the history as far as I know it. I am no expert but I do think I have given a reasonably accurate overall picture of what happened then. Some details I may be off about – like exact dates etc. Is my impression that false? Actually, I do not think so. Remember that NZ, my country, had troops in Vietnam too (some of them returned home in body bags or injured as well) so many people, including my parents, were probably a bit better informed than people from most other nations at the time.

Also, I am giving away my age here, but I was alive at the time and I did see the first pictures showing the war on a b/w television set. Were you alive then? Just wondering…

629. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 17, 2013

PS I also watched on the news showing demonstrations against the Vietnam war in the US and NZ. My first memory was around the year 1968.

630. Killamarshtrek - January 17, 2013

Surely this qualifies for ‘Trek Movie’ news?!
http://www.startrek.com/article/first-look-idws-klingon-cover-for-countdown-1

631. Curious Cadet - January 17, 2013

@630 Killamarshtrek,

No I believe that is a comic book. And don’t call me Shirley. ;-)

632. dmduncan - January 17, 2013

540. Harry Ballz – January 16, 2013

lol!

633. dmduncan - January 17, 2013

581. TrekMadeMeWonder – January 17, 2013

Buzz Aldrin’s comments have always been taken out of context.

The UFO he mentions was unidentified, and as I recall, they thought it was a spent rocket stage. Nothing more. I like that he is smailing when he talks about it. BTW, UFO? I think we know what that means.

***

You are correct, sir. In fact, the last time I saw Buzz Aldrin on one of Larry King’s UFO specials he told that story again and ended by telling us what the “UFO” he saw really was, which was that spent rocket stage. Buzz is a UFO skeptic. But that’s UNLIKE astronaut and moon-walker Dr. Edgar Mitchell, who thinks they could be aliens.

634. dmduncan - January 17, 2013

591. Jai – January 17, 2013

Priceless!

635. Basement Blogger - January 17, 2013

@ 608

Remington Steele,

I love your show. You see youngsters, the show was about a woman P.I. Laura Holt who invents a male P.I. to head her agency. He doesn’t exist until Pierce Brosnan walks in and portrays Steele. Wait da minute…. Hold on. I get the metaphor.

So you’re using the name Steele to portray somebody that doesn’t exist. Isn’t that the definition of sock puppet? I keeeed. I keeeed.

By the way, I do love the Remington Steele show. Great season one opening. Love the jazzy film noir theme.

636. Disinvited - January 17, 2013

#565 LogicalLeopard, 571 BulletInTheFace

According to the first STAR TREK reference published with the imprimatur of Roddenberry, THE STAR TREK CONCORDANCE by Bjo Trimble (The person most responsible for Trek surviving to this day for us to so discuss.):

Veto played a character named John Harrison in SPACE SEED.

John Bellah played a character named Dr. (no first name) Harrison in THE NAKED TIME.

637. KJ trekker - January 17, 2013

New casting news. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1067053/

638. dmduncan - January 17, 2013

636. Disinvited – January 17, 2013

#565 LogicalLeopard, 571 BulletInTheFace

According to the first STAR TREK reference published with the imprimatur of Roddenberry, THE STAR TREK CONCORDANCE by Bjo Trimble (The person most responsible for Trek surviving to this day for us to so discuss.):

Veto played a character named John Harrison in SPACE SEED.

***

Do you have a copy in your hands and are you reading the entry right now? The Concordance says (Veto) Harrison’s first name is JOHN???

639. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 17, 2013

There was mention that only about 50% of eligible US voters actually get out and vote. If I am not mistaken, aren’t there two elections held every two years? One is for the President who has a term of four years and then two years later elections for a Congress. Which election was the poster referring to or was it to both elections?

Also, I am curious as to what the electorate turnout would have been back in 1960 when President Kennedy would have been elected. Would it have the same as those in recent years?

Re: Vietnam war – my impression still stands. Certainly, I agree that once the first new footage of what happened in Vietnam reached Americans, the shock, horror became a major catalyst for the radical changes mentioned, however those changes were already in motion. After all, what would the development of the contraceptive pill have to do with the US sending its troops to Vietnam? Clearly the terrible images prompted the expression, “Make love, not war!”

What I think people are missing here is the fear of the spread of Communism then was very real to many people. It is something some can’t quite seriously imagine now. The fear among people here in NZ and Australia was also real. Vietnam is a South-East Asian country and not far from it Communist China which was providing military support and manpower to the North Vietnamese. People were worried, just as many today fear the Taliban, Osama Bin Laden and Al-Queda. Understand now? Whether these fears were totally rational – well, against hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Also, many younger people now probably cannot imagine not having access to safe, reliable contraception, but before the 60′s, men and particularly women, had to deal with the reality of not really having a choice in saying Yes or No, especially if she did not want to risk pregnancy. Having access to contraception is something that people take for granted now in the affluent western world of 2013. Not then…

640. boborci - January 17, 2013

5890 basement blogger

You rang?!

YEah, i saw the buzz thing. Weird, no?

641. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 17, 2013

Sorry for the typos…in a hurry…gotta go.

642. Disinvited - January 17, 2013

#636.

The great content filter delete machine has moved 571 to 570.

#574 Spock’s Bangs, #593 BulletInTheFace

Actually, no. As Anthony is legally obligated to point out at the bottom of each of his web pages, Trek et al is the trademarked and copyrighted property of one, CBS Studios Inc. and thus he is legally constrained from “doing anything he wants” with it.

643. Basement Blogger - January 17, 2013

@ 640

Hey Bob Orci,

I knew my magic incantation was good. I was pretty good at Hogwarts. Oops mixing franchises. Remember Trekkers chant “JFK was killed by a lone gunman. I summon thee Bob Orci.” Anyway, I hope everything is good with you.

Second, the Buzz Aldrin stuff is interesting. Buzz says all of his comments were taken out of context. Right now I’ll accept that. But astronaut Gordeon Cooper says he did see UFOs in his military career.

By the way, if you saw Zero Dark Thirty,, there’s a scene at Area 51. That’s where those super duper secret helicopters were. So Area 51 is where we keep our most secret aircraft. Is it plausible that Bob Lazar’s story is true. There’s an alien flying saucer out there in the section called S4?

Along with STID, looking forward to your Ender’s Game. Got to find time to read the book. Got any news on that project? I’m interested in Neil Blomkamp’s Elysium. What about you?

644. Disinvited - January 17, 2013

#638 dmduncan,

Thanks for making me go to shelf. I’ve been looking at so many refs that you are correct that that I was confused about it listing any first name for the two separate Harrison characters listed. Also, Veto came from that other reference everyone seems to have recourse to. Bjo doesn’t identify actor playing Harrison in SPACE SEED

#565. LogicalLeopard, #570. BulletInTheFace

My apologies for being confused that any first names had been list for the two Harrison charcters or that Veto was mentioned but everything else I referenced is in there on page 167. For the record listed as:

Harrison, Dr. (John Bellah)

Harrison, Technician 1/C

645. Disinvited - January 17, 2013

FWIW, John Bellah looks a lot closer to BC than Veto.

646. lostrod - January 17, 2013

#637

“New casting news. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1067053/

Thanks for that tip!

Good to see Mr. Doohan credited for his role as transporter officer in the new movie.

Regards.

647. Son of Jello - January 17, 2013

Do you think Disney would allow this much freedom if this was a StarWarMovie fan based page.

648. So tired - January 17, 2013

@628/639 And I am saying your impressions of the US are wrong, first, the US is by definition not a Democracy, it is a Republic, as defined by the US Constitution. Second, your impressions on Vietnam are wrong, and the protests were in full swing long before the news media started sending back the really shocking stuff. Third, the American media lies all the time, about damn near everything, and nothing in popular televised fiction can be taken as fact, NOTHING, not even the fitness of the average citizen, more people look like Peter Giffin than LL Cool J. Finally, I am now finished with this argument, and am moving on to something far more worthwhile.

Oh and the reported voter turn out percentage for the 1960 presidential election was 63.1 percent, well above the turnout for the 2012 election which had 53.6 percent turnout.

649. Curious Cadet - January 17, 2013

@644 Disinvited,

There’s also William B. Harrison of the USS Beagle. I rather like this connection somehow to Merik who failed his psych test while at the academy with Kirk. Harrison was the last to die after 6 years fighting the gladiators. Could this version of Merik and Harrison end up working for the shadow organization within Starfleet? Maybe Wlliam Harrison had a brother named John?

650. dmduncan - January 17, 2013

648: “Oh and the reported voter turn out percentage for the 1960 presidential election was 63.1 percent, well above the turnout for the 2012 election which had 53.6 percent turnout.”

Washington is doing all it can to eventually reduce voter turnout to one guy in Cincinnati named Benny.

Hail America!

651. dmduncan - January 17, 2013

643. Basement Blogger – January 17, 2013

True, Gordo Cooper and Edgar Mitchel are UFO proponents. I think there are a couple others as well.

Then there are the ex military guys who say they are open to UFOS, that they were on the inside, but never found any evidence. Those dudes i think are debunkers, and I don’t trust them.

Nobody ex military can ever really say they were in the innermost circle of anything and there’s no UFO secrets in there, because unless they are the ones who created the innermost circle they have no idea how far deep inward it is located, and hubris (perhaps also testosterone) seems to make these guys always think they were let into the core.

When I found and then email interviewed Sarbacher’s son (which I did a TKR post on at the time), he told me his dad had worked on the radar part of a project that was for using missiles to track and follow — not blow up — UFOs, because those were the only things we had at the time that had a chance of matching their speed

So there are people on the inside who know more than they are telling.

That is what I think.

652. Son of Jello - January 17, 2013

In the country I live in the voter turnout is never below 90%. We don’t need celebrities or media to accomplish this. But we are really crap when it comes to filling out a census. And when a PM is voted out of office you can see them walking down the shop to buy milk a week later on their own no one bothers them you can say hello if you want. My impression of America is an ex president would be to scared of the electorate to do this and if you tried to say Hello a couple of guys with guns would be all over your ass. Democracy or republic that,s not a good relation ship to have with pollotics

653. Disinvited - January 17, 2013

#649. Curious Cadet

You are right. Bjo sites him. I glossed over him since he’s clearly not a candidate for “John” Harrison. And if I recall the actor William Smithers appeared older than Shatner of then.

But the psych eval does introduce possibilites and it would be the first time a character in Trek changed their name to get him as John.

654. Disinvited - January 17, 2013

#653.

“…would be…” should read “…would not be…”

655. Jamesingeneva - January 17, 2013

Anyone else read this on an iPad and find scrolling through 600 comments annoying lol?

Hope all are well!

Ps love the classifieds lol

656. Trekmovie Classifieds - January 17, 2013

TRANSWARP SPARK PLUGS.
Slightly used. Would make lovely
collectors items. For sale or willing
to trade for bottle of whiskey.
555-XCL-SIOR.

657. Son of Jello - January 17, 2013

655 when you got to the end were you disappointed or was it worth it.

658. Phil - January 17, 2013

@652. Yep, it all depends on where you are from. Our neignbors to the south, for example, whenever one of their presidents leaves office he’s usually in jail within six months.

659. Trekmovie Classifieds - January 17, 2013

Lookin’ for some good home cookin’?
Beam on down to the QAPLA’ CAFE,
where the gagh and blood pie are
always fresh and the company is
always charming. Located on Imperial
Boulevard beneath the neon severed
head. 555-985-WORF

660. Disinvited - January 17, 2013

I don’t see how people claim it is impossible for Khan to infiltrate Starfleet?

In I, MUDD a fully not human android, Norman, masqueraded as a member of Enterprise’s crew.

In ST:NG, an augmented human, Dr. Julian Bashir, “infiltrated” a more technologically advanced Starfleet undetected for quite some time.

As for why Khan or others of his ilk would do so, enrolling in Startfleet Academy would be an excellent way to catch up. There’s also the old warfare dictum “Know thine enemy.”

Also if a band of augmented Klingons found the Botany Bay, Khan would be in a much different predicament than the one Prime Kirk and his Federation afforded the former ruler of a quarter of the earth.

661. Son of Jello - January 17, 2013

660 Yes but you would have to ignore all the Khan DNA evidence and that would be just nutty.

662. Pegasus - January 17, 2013

So, JJ gave us 9 minutes of his movie and 2 trailers. And it kept us all talking for about a month. I hope this doesn’t speak to the longevity of what they’re creating… I know it’s annoying to ask for more, but right now Trek is back in the realm of the dead.

663. Son of Jello - January 17, 2013

662 Your right I think Andrew needs a good dose of the Genesis Device.

664. Basement Blogger - January 17, 2013

@ 651

Dmduncan,

I read Colonel Philip Corso’s book, “The Day After Roswell” years ago. In it, he claims Roswell was real and he took alien technology and seeded American corporations with it. He was “Chief of the Pentagon’s Foreign Technology desk in Army Research and Development, working under Lt. Gen. Arthur Trudeau.” Wikipedia article on Corso. Interesting read but Roswell is not my favorite UFO story. Lack of physical evidence bothers me.

My favorite UFO story is the Belgian sightings in late eighties and early nineties. Eyewitnesses. Photos, yes some fake ones. And the Belgian Air Force scrambled jets to intercept . They get radar hits on the UFOs but the UFOs accelerate faster than any man made craft. Link for anybody reading this post.

By the way, the excellent UFO documentary “Out of the Blue” which features Astronaut Gordon Cooper’s UFO statements is on Netflix.

Link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_ufo_wave

665. dmduncan - January 17, 2013

664: Yeah the triangle craft are real. A couple years ago a skywatcher who videos satellites through a night vision lens caught a triangle craft with a light at each point moving across the sky at what looked like very high altitude.

666. Son of Jello - January 17, 2013

If anyone is interested these are the voter turnout statistics of the last Australian Federal election.

http://www.aec.gov.au/Elections/federal_elections/2010/Voter_Turnout.htm#national

667. Capes - January 17, 2013

Dear lord……1000 post continues to draw closer still.

Looks like the return of the great “Where’s Anthony” crisis for 2013……

Oh death where is thy sting????

668. So tired - January 17, 2013

One last thing re: Vietnam, I promise everyone this is the last one.

Open protests began in October of 1965, a year after America got involved, and built steadily week by week, especially as the monthy draft numbers increased from 3,000 a month to 33,000 a month (just for clarity, that is young men compelled to enter military service, given minimal training and crap gear, and shipped off to die, the average lifespan of a 2nd Lt. in Vietnam was 8 minutes), including Muhammad Ali tearing up his draft card and being sentenced to federal prison for refusing to become a soldier in 67, the major news stories from the warfront, like the My Lai Massacre, did not come until 1968.

US government responses to the protests ranged from beatings, imprisonment on flimsy or fabricated charges, public villification, and mass murder (look up Kent State 1974).

Nobody, outside the US and Vietnam, and I say this without rancor or malice, can ever understand these events in the same way we do, many of the veterans of the Vietnam War are still there to this day, whether inside their own head, in the real world (actually living there), or they never left in the first place, many thousands of prisoners were never returned by the North Vietnamese, there are lists of names available for public viewing, even online.

Finally Rose, you spoke of living through those times, well I only caught the tail end, but I see and speak to people everyday who did live through it, quite a few actually, and I shared your statements on the war, and the American public’s support of it, with them… the ones that protested laughed at you, and the ones that fought… well I won’t repeat it here. Despite the passage of time the Vietnam War is a highly sensitive to a sizable percentage of Americans, it may not be logical, but it is true nonetheless. If you truly do not wish to, even inadvertently, offend someone, please, please, do some more reading on the subject I beg you.

669. So tired - January 17, 2013

typo last paragraph

Despite the passage of time the Vietnam War is a highly sensitive subject to a sizable percentage of Americans,

sorry,

670. Son of Jello - January 17, 2013

Other people contribute to Trekmovie why cant Anthony delegate. (I called him Andrew in an earlier post sorry about that)

671. Red Dead Ryan - January 17, 2013

Good to see that there are others who believe in UFOs and aliens.

I believe that some sightings are genuine, and others faked.

The hard part is figuring out which is which, especially when you have those in various governments around the world who would deliberately fake a UFO (and make it obvious that it is fake) to throw everyone off the trail of the true unidentified flying objects that have occasionally visited our planet.

I guess the best evidence is that which is provided by amateur astronomers/skywatchers who don’t have a political/monetary motive who also just happen to be in the right place at the right time.

672. Son of Jello - January 17, 2013

669 ever considred that the vietnamese might have pretty strong feelings about the war as well or should all our sympathy be for Americas sensitivities. There are still people in Vietnam getting the crap blown out of them from unexploded American ordinance.

Anthony you need to update with something even a list of objects in you Star Trek collection will do.

673. So tired - January 17, 2013

@672. I was not trying to say that, in fact the reverse is the case, as I specifically mentioned the Vietnamese as the only other group who could really understand. I should have maybe made that more clear in the last few sentences, but in my view, only the Vietnamese understand to the same degree or more, about just what h-ll on Earth that war was.

674. Son of Jello - January 17, 2013

672 Anyway…….. these comments are bringing us closer to the big 1000. And that’s something we can all share and enjoy. Who will it be? What will they say? Will we make it? Who knows?

675. Son of Jello - January 17, 2013

Sorry I ment 673, not 672

676. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 18, 2013

Voting is compulsory in Australia. It is not in NZ.

In NZ’s 2011 General Election

“Turnout *2,278,989 (74.21%)” Total population – approx. 4.4million
That is considered crap voter turnout. Many elections get an 80-90% turnout. We have a saying here, of late – “If you don’t vote, you can’t complain”. I have only missed voting in one election – my first one but none since, even when I was living in England, I still made it to NZ Embassy in London to cast my vote. This means I can complain…

#668 – Except some Australians and New Zealanders who were also there in Vietnam as soldiers during those years. Sensitivities indeed. I guess our numbers are too small to bother counting…

So you think only Americans could possibly understand the rancour etc of those times. Well, guess what, similar events were occurring here in two little islands in the South Pacific ocean – the anti-war protests up and down Auckland and Wellington’s main street, social change – the mini-skirts along with the sex, drugs and rock’n’roll, the Beatles, Bob Dylan, you name it. Then there were the body bags brought back from Vietnam, far fewer in number, but still they came! The only major difference was that NZ did not have conscription (not sure about Australia). The incumbent government of the day wanted to bring in conscription but kiwis would not have a bar of it so it never happened.

So the US is only a republic and not a democracy as well. Well, that could explain a lot. I wonder if the vast majority of US citizens are aware of the fact their country is not a democracy. Some of you guys are really painting a lousy picture of yourselves, especially when you say that no news media outlet can be trusted to tell the truth at any given time. How do I know that what anyone states here as fact is to be trusted?

Some NZ and Australian Vietnam veterans are still hoping to be compensated for coming in contact with a deadly herbicide used by the US military in Vietnam, called Agent Orange. Those who are still alive are very sick people. My cousin was a good friend of one of the veterans who was too sick to work, but before that, much grief was suffered by him, especially when they found that he was rendered sterile which meant they could never have any children. He died a while ago, as a result of this Agent Orange. Many US soldiers have or are still suffering from its devastating effects.

My spouse’s late partner was a medic in the NZ Air Force (never went overseas) however she knew men who fought in Vietnam and listened to the stories they told, some of them quite awful…

Please, tired, do not tell any Australian or New Zealander that they don’t know anything when it comes to involvement in the Vietnam or the effect such involvement may have had on its ordinary citizenry in terms of loss, suffering, anti-war demonstrations etc. The Vietnam war is one thing the US, Australia and NZ do share in common, for what it’s worth. There are only four countries who do know a little something, unlike the other nations who were merely onlookers. I do not believe NZ should have been in Vietnam, but then again, as I said, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Still, there are some Americans who appear to have little of the existence (or sensitivities) of other nations, even those nations who have been some of USA’s staunchest allies. I am offended. So I need to read more. Well, yes, I do. However, perhaps others, like tired, need to just acknowledge who their nation’s allies have been, for better or worse. BTW, some of our soldiers have been sent back in body bags from Iraq and Afghanistan…think on that!

677. K-7 - January 18, 2013

@676 “So the US is only a republic and not a democracy as well. Well, that could explain a lot. I wonder if the vast majority of US citizens are aware of the fact their country is not a democracy.

What are you talking about???

All western nations are republics, including New Zealand.

DEFINITION:

“The United States is, indeed, a republic, not a democracy. Accurately defined, a democracy is a form of government in which the people decide policy matters directly–through town hall meetings or by voting on ballot initiatives and referendums. A republic, on the other hand, is a system in which the people choose representatives who, in turn, make policy decisions on their behalf.”

Don’t they teach civics or government in New Zealand schools?

I wonder if the vast majority of NZ citizens are aware of the fact their country is not a democracy.

678. K-7 - January 18, 2013

In fact the work Republic means REPresenting the PUBLlC = REPUBLIC. And so Republic means Representative Democracy, which is what all western democracies are based on. Although some countries, like New Zealand, still have some ties to monarchies, so they are like near-democracies, so they are like “democracies in training” so to speak, versus “full democracies” which have rejected all traces of imperial rule and the practice of tribute.

679. Aurore - January 18, 2013

A few days ago, in light of all the debates occurring on this here site and elsewhere, I was shocked to stumble across a ( humorous* ) post entitled :

“WILL NO RON VETO HARM TREK XI ?”**

It was written * YEARS* before the sequel was shot. In fact, Star Trek : The Future Begins had not yet been released ( 2008 ). Ron Veto passed away the same year ( exact date “unknown”, according to Memory Alpha;http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/September_2008#September).

Until recently, I did not remember seeing Mr. Veto on The Original Series.
Although he had appeared in more than just one episode, I had completely forgotten about his character .

One person, at least, had not.
A true fan, undoubtedly.

* In a very strange kind of way, to me anyway, given the recent Trek news, and, discussions.

**(Link if authorized, here:)
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=47347

680. Son of Jello - January 18, 2013

@676 Australia does have compulsory voting and its an average of 90%+ turn out across all the electorates except the Northern Territory which is 75%+. But to get 80%-90% of the voting age population to vote when they don’t have to is damn Impressive

Yes Australia had conscription during the Vietnam war. Numbers were drawn out of a barrel and if it was your birth date you were conscripted (Happy Birthday) You were required to do 2 years service then 3 more years on active reserve. You had to be 20+ yo to be in the lottery. My father missed out by 1 day and my friend at hi school father went and because of this was suffering the effects of agent orange My friend had to wear a brace. It was a metal ring around his neck and then a metal strip down his back connecting it to another ring around his waist. The reason this happened was due to a birth defect brought on by the effect of agent orange on his father. My father didn’t win the lottery my friends father did.

Australia and New Zealand first fought together in the first world war and Vietnam war. And ANZAC is an important part of Australian and New Zealand’s history and continues to this day. If your an American I recommend you look into this history just so you know who it is your dealing with and who your it is your talking to.

America has a lot to learn about the countries that follow it to war. Even when we don’t want to and even when we know what your doing is wrong.

681. Aurore - January 18, 2013

“t was written * YEARS* before the sequel was shot etc….
“_______

With such a title, obviously….

:)

682. So tired - January 18, 2013

@676 How many soldier, in hundreds of thousands, did NZ send to Vietnam? How many never came home? How many did not return because they were imprisoned for decades beyond the end of the war? How many were left unable to function in society by the trauma they suffered? How many committed atrocities like those of Charles Whitman, or serial arson (like the veteran who torched my home when I was a child), or something even worse after coming home? How many family members of those soldiers were oppressed, criminalized and abused by their government?

Other nations were involved but none had the same experiences and reactions to the war, both there and at home, during and after, the seemingly never-ending neglect and mistreatment of the soldiers, innocent and guilty, when they came home (there was a concerted effort during “Operation Desert Storm” in the 90s by people in America to call for people not to treat the returning soldiers the way Vietnam Vets were still being treated). Then as Son of Jello notes above, the continuing carnage in Vietnam from remaining ordinance, plus lingering aftereffects of American weapons like Agent Orange, which was responsible for killing my cousin decades after the war, and I cannot bear to think what it has caused in Vietnam, my mind literally cannot contain such sadness on such a scale. The war, and its long lasting aftereffects cannot be fully measured because they still continue to this day, and will for a long time to come.

As depicted in TOS, which was made while the war was going on, Vietnam will never lose its place in Earth’s history as one of our darkest chapters, we failed all of the tests we were given, think of some old sayings “measure a people by how they treat their prisoners” or “how they treat their soldiers” or how we treated the innocent civilians, and I am talking about both sides, yes American soldiers committed atrocities, but they were not alone. But how many soldiers form other countries were charged with war crimes from that conflict? Was any other nation’s president in need of a pardon for war crimes (actually curious on these last two), Nixon was pardoned by President Ford, and China, remember as Spock said “only Nixon could go to China”.

@677. Exactly! If you think it through a bit, the Federation is a Republic as well, they have the Federation Council, and President, who make policy and pass laws, while representing the population of the Federation. There has been discussion of elections in Star Trek (rarely, but it is there), so these representatives are chosen by the people of the Federation. Clearly the Federation is a Republic.

683. Capes - January 18, 2013

Well, since we are going in every direction on this thread now, I would like to now thrill you with some tales from my childhood….

I was born in a wheat field on 1/17/1969. The Star Trek episode The Mark of Gideon was airing. I would have watched but again I was busy being born so I was not able to…..

To be Continued…..

(The Great “Where’s Anthony” scare of 2013 is ON!!!) Drawing closer to 1000.

684. Trekboi - January 18, 2013

What is this bullshit?

Why doesn’t someone take over this site from Anthony since he couldn’t be bothered with it
This is unforgivable- he doesnt explain himself- he has no respect for us.

685. crazydaystrom - January 18, 2013

@K-7
I’ve never examined the etymology of the word ‘republic’ but what I learned in high school all those many years ago was, and I think this is exactly the wording taught to me- ‘The United States is a representative republic whose representives are chosen by the (or it may have been *a*) democratic process’. By stating this I am of course not disagreeing with you. Just sayin’, as they say.

It IS interesting to me that the words ‘republic’ and ‘democracy’ are, or can be, synonymous. Over the years I’ve heard more than a couple of right-wing talk-radio personalities, and others in the media of their ilk, make a huge point of the U.S. NOT being a democracy but rather a republic. And that most are mistaken, if not deluded, in thinking we are a democracy. And that that mistake/delusion is/was caused by the Democrat Party and/or “government-run schools”. All ridiculous and hilarious parsing and playing with words based on the similarity of the words ‘republic and Republican’, ‘democracy and Democrat’.

I blame John Harrison. ;-)

686. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 18, 2013

Canada, Australia and NZ are not republics.

tired – you are not being fair. The US decided to invade Vietnam and Australia and NZ followed in because of the ANZUS Pact. The US has a population 100 times larger than NZ, so it stands to reason that more US men will be sent to Vietnam to fight and possibly be injured or killed. I don’t know how many NZers might still face imprisonment in North Vietnamese prisons – I doubt there would be many, if any. However, there are veterans here who do suffer the consequences of what happened over there. They are, of course, far fewer in number.

I am well aware of ANZAC Day. It takes place every 25 April and is a public holiday. Memorials and wreaths are laid all around NZ on that morning to recognize the lives, deaths and sacrifices made by all NZ servicemen in all of the wars of the 20th century, including the Korean and Vietnam wars. The same occurs in Australia on the same day. ANZAC stands for Australia New Zealand Army Corp. I think the Corp first side by side in Gallipoli, Turkey in WW1 – a complete shambles where our guys fell like flies…A memorial also takes place in Gallipoli, Turkey each year where Turkish veteran soldiers stand beside the ANZACs in memorial.

On 25 April no commerical advertising is permitted on television, radio, newspapers and all retail outlets must remain closed until 1pm that day. Naturally all schools are closed, and all other workers get the day off. Curiously, while laws to do with shop trading hours and advertising may be broken at other times, rarely, if ever, are they broken on this one day of the year. Each year, just in my local area, hundreds of people of all ages turn out for the ANZAC Day Parade, with people walking silently down main streets until they reach a small memorial site where a wreath is laid, a prayer is said and small speech given, followed by at the very least a minute of silence. Almost every little township has one of these little memorial sites. Very few kiwis are not made aware of those who have died in all the various wars…

687. freezejeans - January 18, 2013

683
Haha. Similarly, I was born in 1968 and it’s family legend that my dad would NOT pick up my mom for dates until TOS episodes were over. I often wonder if I was conceived immediately after it was on. Wonder which episode it was…

688. Jack - January 18, 2013

684. Jeepers. A week and a half without Trek movie news (and there hasn’t been any — all the recent stuff on other sites is old news that had already been here) and we’re back at the ‘How dare Anthony!’ stuff.

689. LogicalLeopard - January 18, 2013

619. Rose (as in Keachick) – January 17, 2013

Anyway, after all that of vulcan and human interaction and study, I am surprised, even shocked, that vulcan biology and sexual reproduction would not be known at least by a Starfleet medical physician. Amok Time was just so silly, pathetic, in that respect.

********************************

You know, you’d think that would be the case, but when you really think about it, the Vulcans COULD get away with not discussing it.

When you think about it, how many Vulcans don’t get married on time, or are away from their partners? I would imagine that most, knowing the danger and wanting to avoid the embarrasment would stick close to their partners. And of course, there’s the whole thing about Vulcans not having sex every seven years, but NEEDING to do so every seven years. So, a normal healthy Vulcan sex life may avoid all this.

Remember, Spock only got caught up because he thought he wouldn’t go through Ponn Farr because of his human heritage. The only others we’ve seen or heard get caught up in it were Vorik and Tuvok from Voyager, because they were halfway across the galaxy with no other female Vulcans, and T’Pol because, as I remember, it was brought on prematurely by something, I think some kind of virus or something.

There may be rumors about ponn farr, like there were rumors about their marriages (reference the creepy Andorian during the takeover of P’Jem in ENT), yes, but who would be inclined to believe a rumor like that about Vulcans?

690. LogicalLeopard - January 18, 2013

684. Trekboi – January 18, 2013
Why doesn’t someone take over this site from Anthony since he couldn’t be bothered with it. This is unforgivable- he doesnt explain himself- he has no respect for us.

****************************

Orr…..maybe he’s dealing with some real life issues, such as a death in the family, or something, and doesn’t have the time or inclination to post that, or update on us of the cover of the new Star Trek Comic book.

I’ll pray for him, hoping that everything’s okay. But it really doesn’t matter either way, because there’s no real Trek news coming out anyway.

691. LogicalLeopard - January 18, 2013

Loving those Trek Classifieds!!! *LOL*

WHO ARE YOU?

Me: Tall, pale, three teeth, soiled clothes
You: A vision of beauty and perfection, wrapped
in song and two giant leaves. I was taken hostage
by your beauty, and soon afterward, by your
comrades. No hard feelings? Call me.

555-NIM-BUS3

692. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 18, 2013

Canada, Australia, NZ, United States, UK and many other nations are defined as being Full democracies. The UK, Canada, Australia and NZ are known as parliamentary constitutional monarchies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy

In one of the graphs seen in the link above, it seems that Australia, NZ and Canada are shown to be more democratic than the US.

693. LogicalLeopard - January 18, 2013

683. Capes – January 18, 2013

*LOL* A wheat field????

694. LogicalLeopard - January 18, 2013

636. Disinvited – January 17, 2013

#565 LogicalLeopard, 571 BulletInTheFace

According to the first STAR TREK reference published with the imprimatur of Roddenberry, THE STAR TREK CONCORDANCE by Bjo Trimble (The person most responsible for Trek surviving to this day for us to so discuss.):

Veto played a character named John Harrison in SPACE SEED.

***

Yeah, I’m with DMDuncan, are you looking at the entry or is this secondhand knowledge. Also, memory alpha says regarding John Bellah:

“John Bellah is an actor who has appeared in two first season episodes Star Trek: The Original Series, playing a sciences division crew member who paints “love, mankind” on a wall and then laughs hysterically over the speakers when Leonard McCoy tries unsuccessfully to call Harrison. ”

So, based on the description of that scene, is he a Harrison too, or was he just there painting on the wall? They have “Harrison” linked to the Harrison from Space Seed.

695. crazydaystrom - January 18, 2013

619. Rose (as in Keachick) –

“Anyway, after all that of vulcan and human interaction and study, I am surprised, even shocked, that vulcan biology and sexual reproduction would not be known at least by a Starfleet medical physician. Amok Time was just so silly, pathetic, in that respect.”

Rose, if I read you correctly, that surprise you feel is mainly due to perspective. We’re looking at things now after forty-five years of Star Trek ‘future history’ building and retconning. Watching Amok Time in the sixties as a child my friends and I were amazed at how great a “serious” science fiction show could be and at how silly and pathetic a show like Lost in Space was in comparison. And forty- five years from now MUCH of what we love about Star Trek now will likewise seem silly and pathetic. Perspective.

Apologies if I come across as pedantic.

696. crazydaystrom - January 18, 2013

And for the JFK assassination..um..’ites’ it’s been announced that a new film, Dallas in Wonderland (seriously), has been green lit. Hopefully the film’ll be better than its title.

697. Jack2211 - January 18, 2013

691. @LogicalLeopard.

awesome.

698. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 18, 2013

I think that vulcans can have sex whenever. It is just that they must have sex or fight while they are in Pon Farr. I think that having sex during Pon Farr is the only time they can reproduce. It’s all very unclear and confusing really. I blame writer Theodore Sturgeon, who seemed to not know much human reproduction or that of other earthly creatures.

To further make a nonsense of vulcan sex and reproduction, dear Bob Orci and co have a hot desert planet Vulcan manage to sustain 6 billion vulcans. No doubt advanced technology makes survival of many more vulcans possible, but 6 billion, especially given their slow reproductive cycles, dampened sexual urges and inclement planetary environment.

Humanity has only managed to reach the 7 billion figure. Earth still manages to provide much (despite humanity’s mistreatment) and human sexual urges and reproductive capabilities are clearly much greater than vulcans. A healthy human female can conceive between 24 and 48 hours of each month whereas I think a vulcan female can only conceive once every seven years during Pon Farr. What’s more a healthy human male could theoretically impregnate four to five women within a 24 hour period, depending on his stamina.

Of course, no man has actually done that or has one? Perhaps Denny Crane after taking his little blue pill…:) (Just been watching series 2 and 3 of Boston Legal – Shatner was in TOP form – love it!).

On the other hand, there are species who struggle to survive and one of the reasons is because they have a slow reproductive cycle. The NZ kakapo (the world’s only flightless parrot) is one such example. It has three things going against it – the biggest obstacle being that it only reproduces once every three to five years, laying only one egg. The other is the fact that the female needs to graze on a very specific plant found only in parts of Fiordland, South Island. If she does not have access to this plant, she will not enter into reproductive phase. Loss of habitat and introduced predators have not helped either. The birds can be very long lived, with some living up to 80 or 100 years but it is not enough.

Therefore, the vulcan planet having 6 billion vulcan inhabitants seems a bit of a nonsense, given what is known – just way too many people. In fact, I sort of cracked up when Spock said what the original population had been because the planet’s destruction. It was one of those moments where laughing was not appropriate at all, however, I found myself giving a wee chortle nevertheless….oh dear.

Perhaps Bob Orci knows stuff about Vulcan sex, babies, Pon Farr et al that we don’t. Was the little information that Theodore Sturgeon managed to impart to us through Amok Time incorrect and that it is possible for vulcans to go at it *like rabbits with as much reproductive success? If only he would clarify for us. This is especially important since there are 10,000 vulcan remaining.

* I met a rabbit breeder who said, “Geez, if only they would breed like rabbits” He said that when you want them to breed, they “flip a bird” at you and just when you don’t want anything to happen, she’s all go and the boy soon gets the message…the breeder said you have to take the doe to the buck, not the other way round, otherwise instead of copulating, she’ll beat him up (can get quite nasty) for entering her territory.

Sorry for my ramblings here. How many liked my ideas and true story or would it be better had I not posted this?

699. BulletInTheFace - January 18, 2013

#636: Regardless of what Bjo’s book may or may not say (I don’t have time to look it up), the fact remains that Harrison was never given a first name in the series. Bjo’s book, while fun, had a LOT of factual errors in it, so you should never take it as gospel.

700. BulletInTheFace - January 18, 2013

#642: Your post is entirely irrelevant to this discussion, and inaccurate. This is a fan site, not a Paramount site. He can post as little or as much as he wants here–it’s not Paramount’s call. No one here is debating whether or not Paramount owns Star Trek, but rather whether or not Anthony is obligated to post more. I’m not entirely sure how you didn’t understand that.

701. BulletInTheFace - January 18, 2013

#679: The 2009 film is not called STAR TREK: THE FUTURE BEGINS. It’s just called STAR TREK.

702. BulletInTheFace - January 18, 2013

#684: You are ridiculous.

703. Brad - January 18, 2013

Did Anthony die or something??? Hasn’t been any new news in 10 days? I can’t believe that.

704. LogicalLeopard - January 18, 2013

698. Rose (as in Keachick) – January 18, 2013
I think that vulcans can have sex whenever. It is just that they must have sex or fight while they are in Pon Farr. I think that having sex during Pon Farr is the only time they can reproduce. It’s all very unclear and confusing really. I blame writer Theodore Sturgeon, who seemed to not know much human reproduction or that of other earthly creatures.

***************************************

It’s not so much silly and confusing as it is undefined. No one has ever said that Vulcans cannot reproduce unless they experience Pon Farr. I wouldnt put any blame on Sturgeon, he was writing one episode in which he didn’t have to give a complete dissertation on Vulcan physiology. It’s not a bad concept. Human beings have sex urges that come about to sustain mating, makes sense for Vulcans to have them too. The seven year thing is sort of interesting, it could be because of a biological urge, or it could be the after effects of emotional suppression, the effects of the mental link with their proposed spouse, a biological urge, or a combination of all of them We don’t know, but just because we don’t know doesn’t make it silly. There could be a good reason for it.

********************

To further make a nonsense of vulcan sex and reproduction, dear Bob Orci and co have a hot desert planet Vulcan manage to sustain 6 billion vulcans. No doubt advanced technology makes survival of many more vulcans possible, but 6 billion, especially given their slow reproductive cycles, dampened sexual urges and inclement planetary environment.

******************************

Again, they don’t necessarily have a slow reproductive cycle. But even if they did, they have extremely long lives, and presumably greater land area than Earth if they have less water (a presumption, because we don’t know about their oceans). The planet could even be “bigger” than Earth, which would make more land mass if it even has the same rate of land to water as Earth does. But either way, when you combine a 200+ lifespan, with what’s probably a ridiculously low murder rate, a great health rate, low accident rate, and NO warfare like our planet has, I’m surprised that they didn’t have 15 billion people living there.
******************************************
Humanity has only managed to reach the 7 billion figure. Earth still manages to provide much (despite humanity’s mistreatment) and human sexual urges and reproductive capabilities are clearly much greater than vulcans. A healthy human female can conceive between 24 and 48 hours of each month whereas I think a vulcan female can only conceive once every seven years during Pon Farr. What’s more a healthy human male could theoretically impregnate four to five women within a 24 hour period, depending on his stamina.

********************************

Uhm, I don’t think human women are limited to conceiving between 24 and 48 hours of each month. Maybe that’s optimal time, but it’s probably more than that. And like I said, no one has said Vulcans can only conceive every 7 years.

But about Earth, how many people would we have if we had no war, no murder, no starvation, no poverty, and we lived two hundred years?

**********************************

Sorry for my ramblings here. How many liked my ideas and true story or would it be better had I not posted this?
************************************

Unless you post something offensive, it’s never better that you don’t post *S* I enjoy the back and forth.

705. LogicalLeopard - January 18, 2013

697. Jack2211 – January 18, 2013

Thank you!

Trekmovie Classifieds:

THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE!

Have you ever experienced something you can’t explain?
Had a mysterious, otherworldly encounter? No longer will
I feel the shame of concealing what I KNOW I saw in
Golden Gate Park that night, and neither should YOU!
If you’ve seen depressions in the ground made by aliens,
glowing doorways in the sky, or crushed garbage cans,
call 555-NOT GRBG

706. Ralph Pinheiro - January 18, 2013

post. 703. Brad

I think there is nothing interesting or revealing about Into darkness until now. TrekWeb published nothing important too.

707. TrekMadeMeWonder - January 18, 2013

149. TrekMadeMeWonder (and Trekkies spoiled It here)

Thanks, Trekkies.

You take the most miniscule data and turn it into the biggest spoiler.
I could think of a better way to market this film than to leave clumsy timy clues for everyone to pick up on. What a way to reveal a major plot element.

I am a bit disapointed.

Must I shelve TrekMovie until June?

————-

Yeah, I know. I am quoting myself! But…

…perhaps Anthony is as disappointed in all of US!

Ever think of that?!

708. Curious Cadet - January 18, 2013

@678 K-7,
“In fact the work Republic means REPresenting the PUBLlC = REPUBLIC. And so Republic means Representative Democracy”

Nope. not even close. The Latin res publica is the root. Yours is some mnemonic a history teacher came up with to help teach students.

“Republic” may be understood to mean “representative democracy” in context, but China is a Republic, as was the Soviet Union, and defining them as representative democracies in the same breath as the US, AUS & NZ is generous indeed.

709. crazydaystrom - January 18, 2013

@Rose (as in Keachick)

Rose I for one always enjoy your posts (questionable endorsement from one who calls himself ‘crazy’, I know). Please don’t hesitate to do what you do.

That said I always raise a dubious eyebrow whenever, in regards to science fiction, anyone says ‘On Earth such and such is the case, therefore on Planet X… There’s no reason to assume Vulcan evolution will be close enough to Earth’s draw such conclusions. Sure Vulcans look somewhat like humans but we know they’re internally very different. The differences in the blood alone is enough to make inter species breeding between the two races a laughable improbability. But of course we accept that ‘in-universe’ conceit – Spock is my favorite Trek character. (Nimoy-Spock that is. The jury’s still out on Quinto-Spock for me.)

But ‘in-universe’ if Humans and Vulcans can make babies, why can’t the planet Vulcan have a population of 7 billion? That’s certainly far from the most preposterous Star Trek has asked us to except.

And again, don’t be self conscious on this board about your posting. You’re one of the great contributors here. Do your thing.

710. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 18, 2013

LogicalLeopard – I was joking a bit when I blamed Theodore Sturgeon. I should have written a emoticon. You are right. It is undefined. I had thought, heard, read that sexual reproduction could only occur during Pon Farr. Perhaps I read it in a book called Spock’s World by Diane Duane – I can’t recall exactly. This is why I have asked Bob Orci to give us all a Vulcan Sex Education lesson and no, Bob, we do not need to read about the Vulcan birds and bees. Besides, I have already talked about a bird and rabbits.

Bob Orci – how is that Vulcan Reproductive Biology Course given by prime Spock coming along? Make sure he holds back nothing and that you share all with us here…:) Good man!

“Uhm, I don’t think human women are limited to conceiving between 24 and 48 hours of each month. Maybe that’s optimal time, but it’s probably more than that.”

Oh my goodness. I have to ask – are you male or female?

Truly, I said exactly what you just wrote here to my MALE GP just after my third pregnancy was confirmed. He told me I was wrong. That is not how things happen. I repeated in my previous post what he had told me, because that appears to be the standard understanding of what happens within a female.

It all has to do with how many times a woman may ovulate in a month. The current medical establishment (unless I am out of date here) is definite about the fact that human females only ovulate once in a month. I said and still say that she can ovulate more than once, given the right circumstances. My male doctor could not accept my assertion.

“it’s never better that you don’t post *S* I enjoy the back and forth.”
Thank you. What does *S* mean? I think I know but I am not sure.

711. Phil - January 18, 2013

really….

712. Jack - January 18, 2013

705. Clearly this has to be made into a book.

713. Aurore - January 18, 2013

#679: The 2009 film is not called STAR TREK: THE FUTURE BEGINS. It’s just called STAR TREK.

________

Right.

It is Star Trek.

I usually tend to write the title…. and its tagline when I refer to the 2009 movie:

‘”The Future Begins’ is the new tagline for the movie.”
http://trekmovie.com/2009/03/09/star-trek-still-called-star-trek/

714. Dee - lvs moon' surface - January 18, 2013

It’s so cool when there’s nothing important about ‘Into Darkness’ out there … then people can talk about the sex lives of Vulcans here …

LOL … just kidding

;-) :-)

715. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 18, 2013

Thank you, crazydaystrom. Yes, inter-species breeding is a little preposterous but in Star Trek and the spin off series, it was so prevalent, as if it was an easy, every day occurrence. And I agree that Vulcan biological evolution may have been quite different from that of other humanoids, so anything is possible, I suppose.

As for inter-species breeding, it all has to do with A.R.T. meaning Artificial Reproductive Technology(ies). I can’t recall if i read it somewhere or made it up myself, but I have used the term in my own story about Menosians.

Using such technology is how Spock came into existence. He was conceived outside of his mother and placed into her body as a tiny embryo (IVF). Some of Amanda’s ova were removed from her body and Sarek left a healthy deposit. Through genetic manipulation and blending of the two distinct DNAs – don’t ask me how…:) and when the scientists felt they had a viable healthy offspring, they implanted it into Amanda, hoping that her body would accept the embryo and pregnancy begin. However, after many miscarriages, the right combination of DNA/genetic material from the two parents formed the person we know now to be Spock, a healthy embryo which Amanda’s body could accept and nurture until normal birth could occur. The process was a long, often painful and exhausting, mentally, physically and emotionally for Amanda in particular.

I suspect this is how B’Elanna Torres came into being and how Worf’s girlfriend and mother of his son, K’Ehleyr came about as well. In the series Voyager, one of the women found she was pregnant just after Voyager was lost and it seems her husband was alien. The series made it appear easy. Perhaps such inter-species reproduction could be achieved with ease, but not so in the beginning, if at all.

In order for such inter-species reproduction to occur, there has to be some genetic material/DNA that the two parents share in common – surely?

716. Curious Cadet - January 18, 2013

701/713 BulletInTheFace/Aurore,

Now that they’ve chosen a format for the second film:

Star Trek into Darkness

Will future films have to necessarily follow this format?

And is there/will there be a tagline for Star Trek into Darkness?

717. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 18, 2013

Dee – Why not? There are only 10,000 Vulcans now. I suspect that many will need to learn or be reminded to go at it like rabbits. We are just doing our bit…:)

I am awaiting Bob Orci’s canonized dissertation on Vulcan Pon Farr, sex and babies with anticipation. Not to be missed.

I dare ya, Bob! Or might Alex Kurtzman be more informed in such matters? Time is a-ticking now.

I keep meaning to ask – Why is Chris Pine’s face so long in the above picture? His face is not that long in *real* life.

718. So tired - January 18, 2013

@686 Life is not fair, never has been, never will be, and that has nothing whatsoever to do with me.

re: The United States of America is a Republic not a Democracy

More specifically, a constitutional federal republic. However, this government is operated as a representative democracy by a congress. The important distinction is that the USA is not operated democratically, but rather by representatives who come to power by democractic process. This was an essential and subtle fundamental of the constitution: we are not a true democracy which could amount to mob rule, but a representative democracy in which our leaders act in our interests.

Much, much more to be found out there, this article covers things ok, of course it is on wikipedia, so some parts are undoubtedly wrong.

Sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_the_United_States

You can argue all you want, but the founders of this country made it explicitly clear that they believed Plato (or Socrates IDRFS), who stated that Democracy would never work as a form of government (their own journals support this), and the wording of the Constitution is specific on the matter, with the first acts establishing the representative branch of the government. Yes our country uses the “democratic process” but it is not in fact a Democracy by government, even the US Government website says this is the case, it is not a matter of opinion.

Even our “Pledge of Allegiance” specifically contains the words “And to the Republic for which it stands” quite intentionally.

Here is another link to explain it even more, this one is not from wiki.

http://thisnation.com/question/011.html

Now seriously can we table this discussion, facts are facts and can’t be changed, and there are better things to argue about, like whether the Tribbles and Klingon uniforms will still be pink when TAS is released on bluray.

719. Phil - January 18, 2013

@715. See TNG episode “The Chase”. Dippy story, but it explains all the DNA stuff.

720. Curious Cadet - January 18, 2013

@ 715 Rose,
“Using such technology is how Spock came into existence. He was conceived outside of his mother and placed into her body as a tiny embryo (IVF).”

Is this canon!? Where did this come from, I’ve never seen reference to this before.

Inter-species breeding among humanoids is theoretically possible due to the common DNA thought to be planted by the Providers throughout our galaxy as explained in TNG (I really hate that Berman and those guys felt they had to explain everything … like Klingon ridges). Therefore, except in extreme circumstances, presumably all humanoid species should be capable of natural conception with each other (assuming the “equipment” is, ahem, compatible).

As for Vulcan mating rituals, you really have to wonder about the biological evolution of the natural selection that results in the males either having to kill somebody or have sex to avoid dying themselves. LOL

721. Craiger - January 18, 2013

New look at the Klingons with new Countdown To Darkness Comic cover:

http://trekweb.com/articles/2013/01/18/New-Cover-for-Star-Trek-Countdown-to-Darkness-Features-a-Klingon.shtml

722. Phil - January 18, 2013

@718. Wikipedia explains it fairly well. If some of our foreign friends have some yearnings for direct democracy, they just need to recall that’s what the OWS protesters were advocating, and it doomed their movement from the start. Seems they could not agree on anything. The founders were very wise to avoid direct democracy, it would have created such a clusterf**k of a country that it would make our current issues seen downright civil…

723. LogicalLeopard - January 18, 2013

710. Rose (as in Keachick) – January 18, 2013
LogicalLeopard – I was joking a bit when I blamed Theodore Sturgeon. I should have written a emoticon. You are right. It is undefined. I had thought, heard, read that sexual reproduction could only occur during Pon Farr. Perhaps I read it in a book called Spock’s World by Diane Duane – I can’t recall exactly. This is why I have asked Bob Orci to give us all a Vulcan Sex Education lesson and no, Bob, we do not need to read about the Vulcan birds and bees. Besides, I have already talked about a bird and rabbits.
************************

Yeah, that’s the problem with those books. They create wonderful backstories to the information provided in the tv shows, but some of that info ultimately gets confused with or contradicted by canon. And I think the writers leave all that stuff in the air intentionally, so they won’t step on the toes of other writers who come afterward.

*************************

Oh my goodness. I have to ask – are you male or female?

Truly, I said exactly what you just wrote here to my MALE GP just after my third pregnancy was confirmed. He told me I was wrong. That is not how things happen. I repeated in my previous post what he had told me, because that appears to be the standard understanding of what happens within a female.

**********************************************

*LOL* You caught me, I’m male. I knew I should have googled that before I said it. Anyway, I was basing that on a few vague concepts, such as the thought that less people would become pregnant if all that needed to be done was to avoid sex within a two day period. Or even an expanded four day period. Also, I thought that there were other factors. Seems to me I heard that sperm cells can survive in the womb longer than previously thought. But I’ve never had to seriously consider conception because the information I looked up before my honeymoon I got completely wrong (and a beautiful baby boy months later!). And when we decided to have a second child, we didn’t have to wait longer than a month for a positive test.
********************************

Thank you. What does *S* mean? I think I know but I am not sure.

********************

*S* means Smile, *L* means laugh, and *LOL* is laughing out loud. Which doesn’t actually always happen, that just indicates the degree of humor.

724. BulletInTheFace - January 18, 2013

#720: All info about Spock’s birth comes from novels that aren’t canon. The ONLY canon aspect we know about Spock’s birth comes from Star Trek V–he was born in a cave and Sarek disapproved of his human features.

725. Curious Cadet - January 18, 2013

@715 Rose/719 Phil

Hey Phil, thanks for that information … Correction to my 720 “The Preservers”, NOT “the Providers” (VERY different), though the exact identity was left intentionally ambiguous by the writers … Presumably to keep from tying their hands over telling a future story related to The Paradise Syndrome.

726. LogicalLeopard - January 18, 2013

715 and 717 Rose (as in Keachick) – January 18, 2013

The in vitro fertilization angle sounds more logical to produce Spock. I suppose it sounds plausible enough for science fiction, in the same way I think they grew dinosaurs by implanting dinosaur DNA over a chicken embryo in Jurassic Park. Or whatever descendant of dinosaurs they used in that film, can’t remember. That would explain why one race’s features (Vulcan, in Spock’s case) are so dominant. Spock is essentially a Vulcan physically. His human heritage doesn’t appear to be more than any emotional or psychological stuff from his mother. This would also explain the teasing from the Vulcan kids in ST09, Spock WOULD be an oddity.

As far as 10,000 Vulcans left, I’ve heard that number was only intended to be the number of survivors of the planet’s demise, not the number in the whole galaxy. Someone has said that one of the writers or producers confirmed that, and pointed out that you can’t be a “survivor” of something you weren’t present for, in the sense that “survivors” of 9/11 are the people who were able to run out of the buildings, not the rest of the people in the country.

727. Phil - January 18, 2013

@720. Nope, she’s making this stuff up. Setting the TNG episode ‘The Chase” aside, Trek really didn’t want, or need, to explain how fooling around with the various humanoid races of the galaxy might make babies. It was sufficient that we were similar enough to get it done. If someone really wants to get into some detail, that’s what fan fiction is for.

728. LogicalLeopard - January 18, 2013

721. Craiger – January 18, 2013

I’m really hoping that some of the Klingons with those masks don’t have ridges underneath. That’d be a pretty cool homage to TOS.

729. skulltrail - January 18, 2013

http://pmcmovieline.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/star-trek-into-darkness-trailer.jpg?w=630&h=267

Have someone notice the reflection on the glass?! I looks almost like the brig scene with Cumberbatch standing in front of him. But the background looks much darker as it would be in the “factory” scene where Scotty is hanging.

730. Craiger - January 18, 2013

#728 – That would be cool also. See even JJ knows to use helmets. I think that is why B&B didn’t want to do Romulans in Enterprise because they didn’t know how to have humans during the RW not see the Romulans. So they choose the Xindi instead.

731. Peter Loader - January 18, 2013

So JJ and Paramount are going to make a movie about the rise and fall of Lance Armstrong… hmm…

732. Curious Cadet - January 18, 2013

@726 Logical Leopard,
“Someone has said that one of the writers or producers confirmed that, and pointed out that you can’t be a “survivor” of something you weren’t present for”

I can certainly see them saying that, and it does make sense. Just considering ships and colonies and embassies and such, that would easily surpass 10,000 Galaxy-wide. Then there’s tourists, off-world workers, etc. Whereas, the only way to survive Vulcan would be to escape on a ship in the limited amount of time they had to get into orbit and avoid being destroyed by Nero. It’s actually a large number under the circumstances, but probably not relative to 6 billion people.

But “survivor” is in an interesting word. If Vulcan were a person, then following his demise, everyone in that person’s extended family would be a survivor.

Here’s a thought. What if the Cryotubes in the trailer have something to do with repopulating Vulcan? Katra’s, clones and such …?

733. Basement Blogger - January 18, 2013

@ 721

Thanks Craiger. I’m not going to nitpick whether the Klingons should have ridges or not. I just want STID to be Star Trek not Star Wars.

734. TrekMadeMeWonder - January 18, 2013

What’s up with all the fragile glass in the new Treks. I thought Scotty invented transparent aluminum.

Already seems to be an overplayed visual in an effort to add tension. Not necessary.

BTW, what happens when this new crew goes back in time to the 60s again.
I wonder if they’ll meet the old cast from real unaltered timline.

735. So tired - January 18, 2013

@724. Except some information from “Spock’s World” was used by JJ and co. for the 2009 movie, so a few things about that book are now “nucanon”.

736. Phil - January 18, 2013

@732. Probably not as many as you might think, reletave to the population of the planet. When you consider that a vast majority of people here never leave their country of origon, it’s probably safe to assume that even in the Trek universe that most people never leave their planet of origon. Vulcan ( we are led to believe ) is a pacifict society, so there would not be a off world military presense, so the only real reason to be off world at any given time would be tourism, business, of gov’t. Ships in orbit would have only got a few thousand people off planet in the time frame shown, so it’s very possible that when you factor in everyone off world you might only have 10,000 left, give or take a few thousand ex-pats….

737. Craiger - January 18, 2013

#734 – You forget Vulcans are stronger than Humans. So maybe Spock can easily break through transparent aluminum,

738. Dee - lvs moon' surface - January 18, 2013

Mr. Shatner today on twitter :

“William Shatner ‏@WilliamShatner

“@SilverLimePhoto:If you were to admit a lie to Oprah, what would it be?” I took performance enhancing drugs before I defeated the Gorn. ;-)”

….. LOL… btw… laughing out loud ;-) :-)

739. Phil - January 18, 2013

@734. That doesn’t mean it would be used everywhere. Aluminum, transparent or otherwise, isn’t as plentiful as silica, so it’s safe to assume that unless there was a structural need for it that glass is probably still used in the 23rd century.

740. Skulltrail - January 18, 2013

@732 Curios Cadet

When I saw today the Trailer again I had the same idea but that was not compatible with that which I saw also in the scene! As some would say they see a ponytrail on the left guy, I see something/someone else … I see Joseph Gatt as Gatt2000 on the left side and not with a ponytrail but a device on his back of his head! I think some journalists told something like that which were on the Bad Robot Press Event! If you watch at 1080i and zoom in, you will see that he has a skinny head!

741. Jack - January 18, 2013

BTW, it was after this Bad Robot press day that Anthony put Robert April on the list of possible villains for the poll. So did he see the April gun stuff there?

I don’t remember April being on previous polls, but I didn’t check. I seem to recall that Anthony also wrote that the Klingons do not have smooth foreheads (there were makeup samples there – I’m assuming that photographs were forbidden, or embargoed)…

I’m struggling… not… to…. write…. ….this… but:

I still don’t (can’t?) see how Trek ’09 was Star Wars. I’m even replacing the characters (in my head) with Star Wars characters, changing the sets and costumes to SW sets and costumes, adding the SW music, sound-fx and dissolves… with all that, I still don’t see the same (or similar) type of movie, the same type of cutting or pacing, the same style, or the same themes. At the core of Trek 09, I see Star Trek.

Sure, there’s no technobabble, or speeches about 23rd century superiority, or a pat lesson, or a perfect replica of what we think the triad should be (because they’ve all just met)… but at its heart it’s about what Trek is about. It’s a very personal story about these characters — so it’s a different kind of adventure than a TOS mission.

The rapid promotion was ridiculous. And the idea that innate potential and family history (nature) — Kirk’s dad and Kirk’s aptitude tests — trumps achievement and experience (nuture) — actual starship experience, paying dues, actual accomplishments — is troubling.

But movies, even Trek movies, have done much dumber things.

742. Craiger - January 18, 2013

Jack their is saving the Earth from destruction. Maybe Spock Prime told Starfleet about Kirk in his timeline and they promoted him based on that also. Their is another thing the head of Starfleet Academy’s speech about Kirk when giving him that medal.

743. Aurore - January 18, 2013

“Now that they’ve chosen a format for the second film:
Star Trek into Darkness
Will future films have to necessarily follow this format?”
_______

I’ll ask DamOn next time I see him.

“…And is there/will there be a tagline for Star Trek into Darkness?”

Indeed :

Star Trek Into Darkness — Thanatos Unleashed

Despite all the whining, from me ( with respect to the title of the sequel ), there is one thing and one thing only that will always seriously matter to me regarding our beloved franchise ; the content of the movies.

744. Curious Cadet - January 18, 2013

@734 TrekMadeMeWonder,
“what happens when this new crew goes back in time to the 60s again.
I wonder if they’ll meet the old cast from real unaltered timline.”

Yes. They actually meet Shatner, Nimoy, et al. As they film an episode of Star Trek.

I have it on good authority from a regular poster here, that for STID to be our future, we have to exist in their past. In other words, there was a TV show called Star Trek, and eventually a movie franchise which correctly foretold all of the events that unfold in STID. Clearly all of those old TV episodes and movies had to have been lost, or Kirk would have just watched them all and known how to defeat every villain.

You see this is why Cumberbatch can play Khan, because the Eugenics wars didn’t really happen in our 1990s, therefore it can’t have happened in the Star Trek universe because the Star Trek universe is supposed to be the accurate portrayal of what happens in our real future. And since the dates have changed, everything else about it can change too.

This is how it’s explained to me anyway. ;-)

745. Disinvited - January 18, 2013

#661. Son of Jello

If Norman could mask his total lack of DNA, to a Federation roughly equivalent to the alt one technologically, then I’m sure Khan could find a way to pull off masking his. Dr. Bashir pulled it off against an even more advanced technology – thus, that it can be done, is canon.

#694. LogicalLeopard

I had the book – just not at hand. I thought I could recall it acurately – a bad habit borne of having an eidetic memory in my preteen years – without being polluted by all the other information being bandied about. By now, I assume you’ve read my clarifications amending the post to which you replied?

The only actor Trimble records as playing a (Dr.) Harrison character (THE NAKED TIME) with no first name is John Bellah. Come to think of it, his first name probably didn’t help in recalling the entry acurately either.

She mentions a Harrison (Technician 1/C) crewman in SPACE SEED but doesn’t identify a first name or the actor portraying.

Memory Alpha and Trimble agree on William B. Harrison from BREAD AND CIRCUSES which, oddly enough, she assigns the mnemonic BC.

#707. TrekMadeWonder

You honestly believe Anthony created this website with the expectation that he could remain spoiler free? Don’t you find the many articles with spoiler warnings and his byline an indication that his personal views might not be in sync with yours on this?

746. MJ - January 18, 2013

Because New Zealand, Australia and some other countries are considered Constitutional “Monarchies,” for those of us from countries that have fully removed the shackles of the colonial monarchies, we will always have some lingering doubts about some of these other countries in the world which still maintain ties to their former masters in a constitutional monarchy arrangement. It’s like they still want to pretend they have a King and/or Queen, and are not yet ready to become a true republican democracy. It is only a minor concern to me though, as these countries are largely representative democracies in practice.

747. Red Dead Ryan - January 18, 2013

#726.

The scientists combined dino DNA extracted from amber with frog DNA in “Jurassic Park”.

Not sure how if that would actually work though….

748. MJ - January 18, 2013

Where is the sequel news now? Oh, yea., it’s time for Anthony’s 1-2 month long January break as usual. ;-))

749. Red Dead Ryan - January 18, 2013

#747.

That should read

“Not sure how OR if that would actually work though…”

750. Curious Cadet - January 18, 2013

737. Phil – January 18, 2013
“it’s very possible that when you factor in everyone off world you might only have 10,000 left, give or take a few thousand ex-pats….”

Yeah, I’m not so sure. Enterprise gave us the Impression that there were dozens of Vulcan ships running around the galaxy exploring and making first contact. There’s over 430 Vulcans in one pop on the Intrepid alone. They were also the co-founders of the Federation, and as such would be conducting government business everywhere, sending delegations and advisors, etc. Add to that seeing a rather extensive monastery on another world, which was also a spy installation to keep tabs on the Romulans (something I suspect they devote a significant amount of manpower to). I can’t imagine that Vulcan wouldn’t have it’s own settlements for the purpose of mining and agriculture to feed the over 6-billion population and supply their infrastructure. Plus that’s a hell of a lot of people to live on the same planet. I’m thinking a few might want to get the hell out. I’m no expert on Vulcan, but just my casual perception suggests a much larger off-world population than 10K. But you may be right.

751. Disinvited - January 18, 2013

#736.,#730. Phil

Since the series ENTERPRISE is part of the movie’s canon, I think the Orions would disagree with you about the Vulcan military. Besides, where is the logic in not having a ready military when you know that in your past a large faction of your population unrestrained by logic fled the planet for space?

That they have material synthesizers is canon. That Transporters can create an aluminum block that you carry with you into it on a planet with no aluminum on it is canon too. So it would seem they should be able to synthesize whatever basic elements are needed. Besides, what in the way that the clear jail substance is filmed eliminates transparent aluminum as the substance portrayed?

752. Curious Cadet - January 18, 2013

@746 Disinvited,
“If Norman could mask his total lack of DNA, to a Federation roughly equivalent to the alt one technologically, then I’m sure Khan could find a way to pull off masking his. Dr. Bashir pulled it off against an even more advanced technology – thus, that it can be done, is canon.”

Nope. Doesn’t work in this timeline.

Also, different time, different rules. It won’t fly with modern audiences since DNA research was in its infancy in 1966 and wasn’t even considered.

However, the alternate timeline actually helps solve some of these canon problems. The technology is not roughly equivalent, it is significantly advanced thanks to the Cold War mentality following Nero’s incursion. And, like your ability to carry a box cutter onto an airplane in your carry on bag pre-9/11, the ability of an android, or even Dr. bashir, to pull of identity fraud, or conceal aspects of their physiology would be virtually impossible now as security and scrutiny has likewise significantly increased. It would seem then that in a mostly peacetime federation of the Prime universe, DNA scans were not a routine part of ships personnel exiting and entering a vessel, but most likely would be now in the alt universe. Problem solved. Khan could never mask his identity with a simple physical makeover in the alt universe, no more than you could get a 6oz bottle of shampoo through TSA.

753. TrekMadeMeWonder - January 18, 2013

745. Disinvited

No. That was not my point.

Just saying the marketing needs to be leading the game with its own revelations.

754. Disinvited - January 18, 2013

#751.,#750. Curious Cadet

I believe they were spying on th Andorians which I miswrote as Orions so you are in good company. ;-)

755. Red Shirt Diaries - January 18, 2013

MJ, I agree. I will always have a bit of doubt about contries with Constutional Monarchies. I wish they would just “get over it” and go full democratic like the U.S and many other Western democracies have done.

756. Phil - January 18, 2013

@750…at this point, even if it’s a quarter million, it’s still a fraction of the total population. More then sufficient depth in the gene pool to make sure future Vulcan babies are not a bunch of rednecks, too.

757. Disinvited - January 18, 2013

#752. Curious Cadet

I get what you are trying to say I just don’t buy it. I introduced Bashir for the reason that no matter how far ST2009 leapt forward techwise that I’m fairly sure they didn’t leap over DS9. Also, it is about time that DNA fingerprinting as practiced now be exposed as not being infallible as fiction choses to portray it so far.

Also, after the TROUBLE WITH TRIBBLES I’m sure Prime was on an equal alert if they weren’t already when Kirk discovered Romulans could pass for Vulcans.

Besides, present day audiences accept that fictional plastic guns and bullets can get through security scans and crackers can can hack anything.

Even now, we change people’s DNA profiles via bone marrow transplants.

758. Son of Jello - January 18, 2013

@745 Disinvited

Considering what we know about DNA and masking agents (yes I’m looking at you Lance) and ST is about 230? years in the future. Yes your right it would be possible and probably common to mask DNA and I guess it would be a huge security issue for Star fleet. Like today’s masking agents Starfleet would always be playing a catch up game with the crooks or engineered supermen.

1000 is getting closer.

759. Son of Jello - January 18, 2013

Maybe we should have a vote on whether something is a Republic or Democracy.

760. DiscoSpock - January 18, 2013

MJ, Red Shirt,

I agree. Enough of this monarchy nonsense in the world. New Zealand and ohter countries need to go the final mile to become true democratic countries and reject the ties to the British monarchy once and for all time. Only then will they become full representative democracies.

761. Disinvited - January 18, 2013

#753. TrekMadeWonder

Thanks for clearing that up, and I agree the marketing needs to be leading.

762. Disinvited - January 18, 2013

#699. BulletInTheFace

Oh no doubt. But as to the first name I think I confused John Bellah’s first name as Harrison’s and it’s all on me.

However, in he case of Bellah versus Veto I believe she’s standing on firmer ground the the Memory Alpha Wiki reasoning.

763. Disinvited - January 18, 2013

#762.

“…in he case…” should be “…in the case…”

764. Son of Jello - January 18, 2013

Rose (as in Keachick)

How did you go with the Earthquake.

765. MJ - January 18, 2013

@764. The Earthquake hit Christchuch, which is on the East Coast in the South Island. Rose lives in Aukland, which is on the Nortwest Coast of the North Island.

So your question like asking someone from LA how they made out with the San Francisco earthquake.

Kind of reminds me of a friend of mine from Canda. He tells me that he thinks it funny that people from the U.S. sometimes ask him if they might no someone that they know from Canada.

:-))

766. Harry Ballz - January 18, 2013

@765

MJ, I live in Toronto. What’s your friend’s name? Maybe I know him. :>)

767. Red Dead Ryan - January 18, 2013

MJ, I also live in Canada. Victoria, on Vancouver Island, off the west coast of British Columbia, eh?. Your friend sounds familiar to me. Yeah, maybe you could mention his name, eh?

:-)

768. Harry Ballz - January 18, 2013

MJ, does your friend wear a red flannel shirt and eat nothing but back bacon?

769. Harry Ballz - January 18, 2013

Q: What do you say to a Canadian stripper?

A: Take off, eh?

770. Capes - January 18, 2013

So anyway, I was born in this wheat field back in 1969 and there was this original series episode on at the time. Now, I WANTED to watch it but I was still tired from the big move y’see. So then these two doctors that delivered me (yes…they both were passing by the same wheat field at the time…) began to have an argument about what the difference was between Romulans and Vulcans. At this point I sprung up…grabbed my umbilical and began strangling them both and shouting EXACTLY! WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCE?!?

Not bad to be less than a day old….wouldn’t you say?
A little closer to 1000 now…..

771. Red Dead Ryan - January 18, 2013

MJ, does your friend get drunk on beer while watching the Toronto Maple Leafs on tv?

772. MJ - January 18, 2013

@768. That’s him I think. And he drinks Moosehead all the time, but has great healthcare when here overdoes it.

773. Son of Jello - January 18, 2013

765

All I knew was that were from New Zealand. So expecting me to know which end of New Zealand they were from is asking a bit much. If its in one of their post I may have missed it. It was a general question and I don’t read every single post. Your answer was rude sometimes you may meet or talk to people who don’t know everything you know. And that’s not a reason to make them look stupid.

774. MJ - January 18, 2013

@773. Well Jello himself would have known. Guess his son isn’t quit as up on things. Ah, this new generation….

775. Son of Jello - January 18, 2013

774
MJ a simple apology would have been fine but why should you just be rude when you can insult people for no reason.

776. Red Dead Ryan - January 18, 2013

Son of Jello…….sounds a lot like Son of MJ, who has “suddenly” and “mysteriously” disappeared from the site as soon as the former showed up!

Hmmmm……..coincidence? Or a connection?

777. Son of Jello - January 18, 2013

776 what

778. Son of Jello - January 18, 2013

776

Sorry for a moment there I thought you were saying Son of Jello and Son of MJ were the same people.

779. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 18, 2013

Re Spock’s conception – some of my information came from Diane Duane’s Spock’s World. I no longer have a copy and cannot remember much, except that achieving a healthy pregnancy for Amanda was difficult. What I wrote was simply to do with applying what is currently known to succeed via IVF etc and project that into the future, where there would presumably be better understanding and technology that could allow for inter-species reproduction. Perhaps the pioneering of inter-species reproduction came about on Vulcan with Sarek and Amanda’s desire to have child together.

Humans cannot naturally breed with any species other than our own so it really staggers me to think that humans being able to breed naturally, successfully with an alien race like the Klingons or Vulcans is possible at all. Help would be needed.

No, it is not canon, but obviously something A.R.T.y would have to be going on in the 23rd/24th centuries, because we also have B’Elanna Torres and others. Common sense really. There is no reason why it could not become canon.
—————————————————————————————————-
People like me living in a constitutional monarchy are in “shackles”, need “to get over it”…LOL Trust me, we don’t need to “get over” anything and what “shackles” were there came off quite some time back. The British Monarchy is part of my heritage, and my inheritance. I am anything but shackled.

Of course, for a democracy to be successful, there have to be some laws and tempered by common sense. I do not honestly see that NZ becoming a republic would offer me anything more as an ordinary citizen than what there is now. Indeed, I would feel a sense of loss, being cast adrift from all that I personally and collectively have come from. Besides, I believe, according to my father-in-law who has been, at various times, adviser to both NZ Government and Queen, the only way NZ could become a republic is when Britain is no longer a constitutional monarchy. This is not because of the wishes of those of UK heritage, but because of treaties etc made between the Monarchy and the indigenous Maori. Anyway, that is my understanding. Like anything legal, it is complicated.

Things are not always that simple. NZ has had different beginnings from the US and other former colonies. We are not a colony or a dominion. NZ is a sovereign nation.

780. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 19, 2013

Has anyone seen this? Lovely stuff -

http://www.empireonline.com/interviews/interview.asp?IID=1615

781. Disinvited - January 19, 2013

#779. Rose (as in Keachick)

I used to believe that about Homo Sapiens not being able to breed out of its species unitl I saw this week’s HORIZON/NOVA that claims that hard DNA evidence proves that Neanderthals and Homo Sapiens achieved just that. They claimed some modern humans have as much as much as 4% Neanderthal DNA.

782. MJ - January 19, 2013

@778 “Sorry for a moment there I thought you were saying Son of Jello and Son of MJ were the same people.”

Now why on Earth would anybody think that?

;-)

783. MJ - January 19, 2013

@781. That would certainly explain those guys in the Geico commercials.

784. K-7 - January 19, 2013

Here’s wondering if Son of Jello is Bill Cosby’s son? Could be!

785. Disinvited - January 19, 2013

DECODING NEANDERTHALS

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/decoding-neanderthals.html

786. crazydaystrom - January 19, 2013

744. Curious Cadet-
“Yes. They actually meet Shatner, Nimoy, et al. As they film an episode of Star Trek.”

Were you by chance referencing the famous (or, at least, once famous) fan fiction story ‘A Visit to a Weird Planet’? In that story, for those not familiar with it, Kirk, Spock and McCoy because of a transporter malfunction end up on the transporter room set of the television show Star Trek replacing the actors Shatner, Nimoy and Kelley! It was a fun read. As was the sequel ‘A Visit to a Weird Planet Revisited’ that told the flip side of the story- how Shatner, Nimoy and Kelley dealt with be suddenly put on the ‘real’(reel) Enterprise.

787. Disinvited - January 19, 2013

#784. K-7

Unlikely, his only son died in a senseless shooting while changing a flat. And while he has admitted to having an affair in the 1970s, he’s categorically denied having unprotected sex while doing so.

788. Son of Jello - January 19, 2013

@784
No sadly Bill Cosby’s son was shot dead in LA during an attempted robbery in 1997.

789. Son of Jello - January 19, 2013

Yes it was with the Babushka Lady behind the grassy knolI. And just to clarify I admitted in the 70s that I had sex in the early 60s. And kids remember if it ain’t on it ain’t on

790. So tired - January 19, 2013

@779. Ok, lets see now Alexander Rozhenko was one quarter human, Worf and K’Ehleyr did not employ any tech to produce him. Miral Paris, daughter of Tom Paris and B’Elanna Torres was also conceived without any artificial help, and B’Elanna, like K’Ehleyr, is half human, and her parents didn’t need any help either. Then there is the random crewman on Enterprise D from “The Drumhead” who lied on his Starfleet enlistment, stating his maternal grandfather was Vulcan, when in fact the ancestor was Romulan, given that his maternal grandfather would have been alive before Kirk (its only 80 years from the launch of Enterprise B to the end of Generations), and the unending state of hostilities between the two cultures, how likely is it that those ancestors sought medical assistance for conception?

After that the Occampa (Kes’s people) were shown to be able to crossbreed with humans during the Voyager episode when Kes was experiencing her life backwards, as Tom had married Kes, and had a daughter, who thanks to Occampan accelerated aging, married Harry who had a son, the Doctor never once mentioned anything about helping the process.

There is also Gul Dukat’s half Bajoran daughter, who he did not even know existed IIRC, and who was conceived without his knowledge. Nikolai Rozhenko, Worf’s human brother, also conceived a child with a woman from a primitive world, and elected to stay on a primitive world with her, he most certainly did not have any tech help.

There are more, but my point is, you may be right about how interbreeding between species from 2 different planets would work in reality, or as Disinvited points out you may not, but within the realm of the fictional Star Trek universe, and the rules it operates under, including the fact that according to TNG’s “The Chase” all of the humanoid species of the Milky Way Galaxy share the same genetic ancestry, possibly including the dinosaur people Voyager encountered, interspecies reproduction is quite possible without technological assistance.

791. So tired - January 19, 2013

Oops, one minor correction re: Alexander Rozhenko

Worf and K’Ehleyr did employ one piece of technology to produce Alexander, the Holodeck where they had s-x.

792. crazydaystrom - January 19, 2013

791. So tired –
“Worf and K’Ehleyr did employ one piece of technology to produce Alexander, the Holodeck where they had s-x”

Yeah and it’s been discussed a great deal over the years but the implications of an actual holodeck would be astronomically insane! When you consider how involved people get with video games today… A fully functioning holodeck! OMG!! It would go way beyond ‘The Nth Degree’! Waaaaayyy beyond!!

793. Disinvited - January 19, 2013

#790. So tired

Is that indication that more than 50 shades can be drawn if we just get out there some sort of space version of Horace Greeley’s “Go West, young man”?

794. Curious Cadet - January 19, 2013

@786 crazydaystrom,
“Were you by chance referencing the famous (or, at least, once famous) fan fiction story ‘A Visit to a Weird Planet’?”

No, I was referencing the theory by one of our more outspoken contributors here, who asserts that since the Eugenics wars did not happen in our real 1990s then that nullifies everything we know about Khan (who is therefore eligible for a complete reboot), since evidently our real present is Star Trek’s fictional past, just as Star Trek is our real future.

But thanks for letting me know about “A Visit to a Weird Planet”. It sounds like a fun read. Did it appear before or after “Galaxy Quest” which did an excellent job of depicting actors on board a real starship.

795. Phil - January 19, 2013

@751. Gotta remember that there are limits to what a replicator can do. On a starship, a replicator is good for turning what was flushed down the toilet yesterday into todays grilled cheese, but the replicator won’t be churning out antimatter, or anything else needed at some dramatic point in the story. Likewise, why build a starship when you can replicate one? Remember, a replicator cannot create something from nothing, so if you need a million pounds of glass, you need a million pounds of base material, and the energy to replicate it into glass. I’m guessing that if it’s more efficient to just manufacture it, you would not waste energy to replicate it.

796. Phil - January 19, 2013

@790. I’m perfectly happy with the explaination that there is enough genetic similarity amoung the Star Trek races to allow for reproduction. I know there are a few people here who want to obsess on that aspect of the Trek universe, so if someone out there has created a Vulcan p**n site, they can Mary Jane to their hearts content. It’s enough that Spock and Uhura are getting busy, I don’t need details or an instruction manual….

797. dmduncan - January 19, 2013

Vulcans have green blood which I attribute to oxidized copper, rather than iron, in their hemoglobin.

Also, I don’t think McCoy was joking when he pointed out the location of Spock’s heart.

Interbreeding between Vulcans and humans in that case is one of the more unbelievable aspects of Star Trek. But it makes for some interesting social commentary.

Remember that the next time one of you feels like hammering future Star Treks for not having the great science of older Star Treks.

798. Red Dead Ryan - January 19, 2013

#781.

That explains the cast of “Jersey Shore”.

:-)

799. Harry Ballz - January 19, 2013

@794

That story was written MANY years before Galaxy Quest.

There are no NEW ideas.

800. The Sinfonian - January 19, 2013

Vulcans don’t have hemoglobin (‘heme’ is from ancient Greek haima, blood, and as in hematite refers to the blood red color of iron oxides). So, Vulcans have cuproglobin? Andorians have cobaloglobin?

One thing Ben Affleck now has other than hot love with Jimmy Kimmel: goldenglobin!

801. Harry Ballz - January 19, 2013

Will an infusion of HOBGLOBIN turn you into a pumpkin?

802. So tired - January 19, 2013

@797. According to the TOS episode “Obsession” (cloud vampire) Vulcan “hemoglobin” is in fact copper based rather than iron based like humans.

803. Red Dead Ryan - January 19, 2013

#801.

Or a Spider-Man villain.

Also, a dose or too of HOBNOBGLOBIN will turn a shy person into a socializer in a heartbeat!

:-)

804. crazydaystrom - January 19, 2013

799. Harry Ballz –

“That story was written MANY years before Galaxy Quest.”

Many years, indeed.

“There are no NEW ideas.”

Not under OUR sun, at least.

Harry, have you heard anything about ‘DALLAS IN WONDERLAND’? It’s a new film being made re the Kennedy assassination conspiracy.

805. Phil - January 19, 2013

That was something that bugged me about the Spider Man movies (keeping in mind I didn’t see the last one)….I got that he needed to hide his identity to keep his loved ones safe….so why spend the rest of the movies taking the mask off for anyone and everyone….

806. The Sinfonian - January 19, 2013

@805 Kind of the Sly Stallone Judge Dredd Effect: but we hired this handsome actor so we must show his face. Mask or helmet be damned!
Cast an UGLY pimply kid for Spidey next time.

807. Harry Ballz - January 19, 2013

@804

crazydaystrom, yeah, I’ve heard the basic synopsis, about a camera crew reenacting the motorcade for a documentary profile puff piece, and they get caught up in all the angles to the assassination.

What I’m really happy to hear is that Jonathan Demme has let his option lapse (to make a movie) on Stephen King’s 11/22/63. Thank gawd, as King’s story depicts the sillty notion that Oswald acted alone in killing Kennedy. That would be just plain nutty!

Bob Orci, good news, huh?

808. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 19, 2013

Phil – On the contrary, such discussion is not obsession at all. How human/hybrid come into being is just as interesting/important as anything else discussed about the world of Star Trek. It has been barely touched on.

“In 1963, Sir William had pioneered a technique for carrying out blood transfusions on unborn children, their lives in danger because of rH incompatibility with their mothers. The November 1963 edition of the British Medical Journal, carried “Sir William’s report of a medical breakthrough – the first time an unborn child had been successfully treated as a patient.

National Women’s Hospital became internationally famous, the medical speciality of perinatology was established and Sir William Liley was dubbed the “Father of Foetology”.’

The doctor assisting Sir William Liley was Pat Dunn, the same doctor who delivered my spouse and younger brother. No kidding. 2 degrees of separation – gotta love it!

This is but one example of how things can go wrong within human reproduction. Before this groundbreaking medical intervention, unborn babies died along with some of the mothers, simply because the mother did not have the *right* kind of blood.

http://www.everybody.co.nz/page-089acd41-2e3c-468f-843c-838131a051b4.aspx

According to canon, Vulcans and Romulans have copper based blood (green) whereas humans have iron based blood (red). Think about that for a minute… in light of the human rhesus disease, fairly rare though it is.

Infertile couples have intercourse all the time, irrespective of whether infertility has been brought about one or both (vasectomy/tubiligation or other) or by nature. Most have all the equipment. So, of course, it is quite likely that Sarek and Amanda would be able to manage some sexual activity including full intercourse, so too B’Elanna’s human and klingon parents and so on.

It is just that reproduction is not possible and that is what the issue is about here.

I amend A.R.T. to stand for Assisted Reproductive Technology (as opposed to Artificial…). It sounds better and is a more accurate description.

809. Phil - January 19, 2013

@808. Well, if it’s hardly been touched on, then it must not be that interesting. I doubt that Trek 13 will be about Spock and Uhura’s adventure in the fertility clinic. Fan fiction is plenty for those who want to know more…..

810. LizardGirl - January 19, 2013

@809 Phil
True that! :)

But I wonder if Vulcans will be so opposed to creating more hybrids, seeing as they (besides a few) only feel the need to mate every seven years. And they happen to be endangered. We may have more Spocks yet.

811. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 19, 2013

Who says that the movie has to revolve around A.R.T.? I am not saying that at all. What I am saying is that some explanation could be given, in the same way that other discussions/explanations are given about other aspects of what happens with the Star Trek world. There is a lot of stuff on the various Starfleet vessels, the weaponry, warp and transwarp technology and yet we know little, if any, of how Spock could ever exist. To me, that does not make sense.

In a way, it is actually quite sexist, because it negates the feminine…

Bob Orci is a fan of Star Trek. He, along with Alex Kurtzman with some input from Damon Lindelof, so by definition, Star Trek 09 is fan fiction put on film. So is STID!

812. crazydaystrom - January 19, 2013

I would imagine that, all things considered, procreation would be high on the priority list for Vulcans. And a logical imperative. VERY curious to see how the Vulcan situation will be addressed.

813. Curious Cadet - January 19, 2013

@812 crazydaystrom,
“VERY curious to see how the Vulcan situation will be addressed.”

Cloning. That’s what all those cryo tubes are. The Vulcans maintain a DNA bank on Delta Vega. They may even have a few Katra’s sitting around.

814. Harry Ballz - January 19, 2013

Cloning? I can see it now…….

The Vulcan scientists start cloning to repopulate the species…..in their rush, a few bad ones are produced.

One, in particular, is nasty and rude, spitting, screaming obscenities, hissing and swearing at everyone.

The scientists, in a panic, call Spock to help them. He rushes to the rescue, knocks the clone out, carries him up to the top of Mt. Seleya, and pushes the clone over the edge to his death.

When Spock comes down from the mountain, the authorities promptly arrest him.

The charge?

MAKING AN OBSCENE CLONE FALL!

815. Peter Loader - January 19, 2013

I doubt this movie will have explanations for anything. It will be up to the writers of future Star Trek novels to fill in the gaps for those wanting a conclusion to anything… especially the future of the Vulcan people.

816. crazydaystrom - January 19, 2013

814. Harry Ballz
“The charge?
MAKING AN OBSCENE CLONE FALL!”

Ha! Ah Harry, I knew I liked you! I always say-

“The only good pun is a BAD pun! (Upon my word)”

And yours was a real stinker! I loved it.

817. Harry Ballz - January 19, 2013

Thanks, crazydaystrom! I’m only too happy to sink to your level!

818. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 19, 2013

Cloning is not the answer. Even now the scientists know that you can only clone so many times before things start to unravel, in terms of a later clone’s health and longevity. Anyway, according to Star Trek canon, by the late 24th century there were still problems which are what gave rise to Shinzon’s health problems.

I doubt the Vulcans would do that. I hope not. If prime Spock has indeed found a suitable planet and some way can be found to stimulate procreative processes within Vulcan male and female biologies (if, in fact, reproduction can only take place every seven years – nobody here is sure), then the population should slowly increase quite naturally, which is really best for all – the people and the planet’s eco-systems.

Also, reproduction is naturally a result of relationship(s). I do not believe, in the longterm, it is healthy to separate reproduction from relationship which includes a full on intimate and sexual coupling between two people who could also be prospective parents. This is what IVF, cloning etc could do, if used as a substitute for normal relationship and intercourse because it is considered more *efficient* etc.

Of course, Vulcans may think differently but I think they may find, to their peril, that following such a course is anything but efficient or beneficial.

#814 – Oh, Harry Ballz – LOL!

Those cryo-tubes could be for anything. Similar tubes were seen and used in a Star Trek Voyager episode.

819. Disinvited - January 19, 2013

795. Phil

There’s a reason I specifically didn’t mention replicator tech. There was never any clear indication in the first series that they had that kind of thing. I was talking about material synthesizers, i.e. their ability to manufacture basic elements such as aluminum on demand given that their transporters can convert matter into energy and back again. As it is, we transmute elements in our own nuclear reactors and I expect Enterprise can manufacture aluminum and oxygen on demand. If only because Scotty intimated in THE DOOMSDAY MACHINE that they still use an advanced form of fusion reactor for some things, i.e. the kind that can explode violently.

820. dmduncan - January 19, 2013

814. Harry Ballz – January 19, 2013

HAhaha!

821. Disinvited - January 19, 2013

#797. dmduncan

The location of organs would not be much of an impediment given the variabilty found in the “real” human populace. Rarely is everything laid out textbook perfect.

822. Disinvited - January 19, 2013

#810. LizardGirl
#812. crazydaystrom

Maybe Sybock can start a free love movement? Or at least found PLAYEAR magazine?

823. dmduncan - January 19, 2013

821

It’s not the location of the organs so much as the code which puts them in different places in humans and vulcans, and makes them pump different types of blood.

Remember, even different blood types from the same species — HUMANS — are not compatible, and they are all based on iron.

824. dmduncan - January 19, 2013

Hey, now you’ve given me some good ideas!

825. Harry Ballz - January 19, 2013

It’s not WHERE you place the organ, it’s how you USE it!

Um, no, wait a minute…..

826. Phil - January 19, 2013

God bless you, Harry Ballz!! I bow to your wit….

827. Phil - January 19, 2013

Shinzon was cloned in a coal mine. I’d expect a few problems. Besides, all they needed was a little of Picard to fix him right up.

In a nice, shiny, Federation lab I’d expect a clone transporter to be spitting out good Spocks and bad Spocks on demand.

828. Harry Ballz - January 19, 2013

@826

Phil, tell me, is that a full bow or just a half bow?

A full bow would be nice, but a half bow might imply I’m a half-wit.

(ashamed of cheap joke, in my best Khan voice)

“Where’s the erase button??”

829. Disinvited - January 19, 2013

#828. Harry Ballz

It’s next to the override!…The override!

830. MJ - January 19, 2013

Does a full blow involve dealing with Harry Ballz?

831. Harry Ballz - January 19, 2013

A full blow?

If that’s not a typo, what can I say?

Yes, I DO enjoy a full blow. When she stops half way, I get a little…….frustrated.

832. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 19, 2013

MJ – Perhaps you need to have your specs checked. The word was “bow”, not “blow”…:)

Unless, in Harry’s case, he requires a bow before a blow.

833. Harry Ballz - January 19, 2013

Only when it comes to Japanese women!

(yikes, that’s hitting below the belt)

834. crazydaystrom - January 20, 2013

Hey!! My post disappeared then reappeared after I reposted!!

Or am I crazy?!?

Don’t answer that.

:-(

835. Curious Cadet - January 20, 2013

Here’s a question:

If John Kennedy had not been elected president in 1960, and initiated the race to the moon, would Star Trek have ever made it on the air in 1966 in time to inspire a generation of baby boomers, or at all?

Does Star Trek owe its existence to John Kennedy?

836. Harry Ballz - January 20, 2013

Curious Cadet

it has been postulated that Roddenberry was having Kirk and crew spread a Kennedy-like philosophy throughout the galaxy. Democracy for everyone!

Kind of funny that, even though Kennedy’s womanizing wasn’t known at the time, they also had Kirk (the Kennedy figure) humping every chick he met.

“A girl on every planet” was Kirk’s motto.

Hmmmm, does being a democratic leader turn one into a pigmeister?

837. Harry Ballz - January 20, 2013

Damn! I forgot to add Bill Clinton in that example!

838. Craiger - January 20, 2013

Has anyone thought Harrison could be a sleeping agent, either a Klingon or Romulan?

839. Craiger - January 20, 2013

^ Sorry I posted that in the wrong article.

840. crazydaystrom - January 20, 2013

836. Harry Ballz -
“Kind of funny that, even though Kennedy’s womanizing wasn’t known at the time, they also had Kirk (the Kennedy figure) humping every chick he met.”

Not funny at all when you consider -
1) EVERY unmarried lead male character in action/adventure TV or movie were “ladies’ men” in the 60′s. James Bond, James West, James T. Kirk ….(hmm..what’s with the ‘James’ thing?!?)

2)Roddenberry himself was a notorious skirt chaser.

And

3) Bedding women has ever been indicative of masculinity and virility (bedding women…indicative? Hmm…there’s a pun in there somewhere if you look for it)

841. Harry Ballz - January 20, 2013

Maybe…..IN DICK ACTIVE?

842. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 20, 2013

Oh Harry – I shall never look at the word “indicative” in quite the same way again…:)

843. Harry Ballz - January 20, 2013

@842

That’s funny, Keachick. I feel the same way about the word AMBUSH. :>)

844. Phil - January 20, 2013

@835. I suspect the space race would have occured if Nixon had won, too. Cold War politics being what they were Sputnik was going to get a response one way or another….Star Trek owes it’s existance as much to the Cold War as it does a presidency….

845. MJ - January 20, 2013

I’m not a Nixon fan, but Nixon would not have gotten us embroiled in Vietnam as Kennedy and LBJ did. Nixon was a master at foreign policy, whereas Kennedy, and the untrained idiots like McNamarra in his cabinet, were way over their heads and almost got us in a Nuclear War.

846. Disinvited - January 20, 2013

#841. Harry Ballz

If you are going to introduce tricky presidents into this, don’t forget the George Walk Her Bushes.

Which reminds me, M.J. from what I recall of the 1960s, Kennedy’s infidelities wouldn’t have been considered any more newsworthy than those of his father. back then it was considered a given that powerful men would stray. And since powerful men controlled the media it literally went without saying. Oddly, what would have scandalized a 60s’ presidency would have been a divorce.

847. MJ - January 20, 2013

@841. You come across so cocksure on this topic.

848. MJ - January 20, 2013

@846. The reason infidelities in those days wasn’t “newsworthy”, was because the media refused to report them. Their was a general understanding between the media and leaders that such topics were not appropriate to make public. If it had become known, however, that Kennedy had a a couple of dozen or more women while President, that would have brought his presidency down…this is not like he had a lady friend like Ike…he was banging multiple women…he was out of control.

849. Curious Cadet - January 20, 2013

@844 Phil,

Of course we’ll never know. The space race was already going full throttle under Eisenhower. But Kennedy announced our intention to go to the moon before the end of the 60s, only 4 months after taking office. Both Eisenhower and Kennedy administrations had advised the moon would be prohibitively expensive, and Kennedy had been presented with plans to dismantle the Apollo program begun under Eisenhower. Kennedy appointed Johnson as the chairman of the Space Program, and Johnson was a strong supporter of the space program because its manned spacecraft center was located in TX. Ultimately both Johnson and Kennedy fought for it.

I’m not so sure Nixon would have done the same. He was a fiscal Republican who would have continued Eisenhower’s legacy of small government. Ultimately Nixon would be responsible for the decline of NASA in the 70s. If he had won the 1960 election, even if he appointed the VP head of the space program, Lodge was from Massachusetts, and a war vet, and would have had little interest in preserving the budget of the space program as Johnson did. I suspect they wild have gotten us into Vietnam even earlier than Johnson did.

The reason I asked is because it seems like Kennedy’s call to get us to the moon within a decade came not only as a surprise to NASA but accelerated the space program, infused it with billions of dollars and became a central focus of the American people for the rest of the decade. Therefore, the studios and networks were interested in shows like Star Trek. Would they have been if NASA was merely racing to put men in orbit to service satellites and military playforms in space? Would they even know the extent of it? It seems had Nixon become president, the goals NASA chose to achieve surey would have been smaller, and more affordable, unless of course the Soviets decided to go to the moon, in which case it surely would have happened later than it did.

And timing is everything. Roddenberry didn’t start to shop Star Trek until well after Kennedy had begun stirring up enthusiasm for going to the moon. Perhaps Roddenberry would not have been as inspired to even shop the idea, or dropped it after studio executives failed to express any interest. Who knows where Roddenberry might have found success then, and whether he would even revive the idea assuming the US ever did decide to go to the moon. Perhaps another sci-fi space show would have taken its place, or other failed shows would have cost it it’s opportunity. And if he did eventually get around to making Star Trek, it most likely would not have the same cast, writers or crew, or evolved as we know it. Indeed, I do wonder whether Star Trek would have gotten a Fourth season if the first moon landing had happened a year earlier.

Looks like we might just owe Star Trek’s existence to Kennedy.

850. MJ - January 20, 2013

Vietnam, The Cuban Missile Crisis and The Moon Race/Star Trek — well, at least Kennedy got one thing right.

851. MJ - January 20, 2013

Kennedy has several nights with prostitutes while President, including and disturbing continual relationship with a known East German prostitute, Ellen Rometsch.

Statements from Secret Service agents have described JFK’s penchant for prostitutes, and how they and other women were “procured” by his assistant, Dave Powers. Jackie’s travels were carefully monitored so that she would not return to find the president and women “frolicking” in the White House swimming pool or in the family quarters.

852. K-7 - January 20, 2013

JFK was an ego maniac. JFK was all about JFK. The most overrated president in U.S. History. The assassination made him legendary and washed all of his severe limitations and failures under the rug. And the Kennedy worshipers are all out in force here on this web site — this proves that his legend and cult-like status continue unabated despite all logic, objectivity and common sense.

853. Son of Jello - January 20, 2013

852 Why so bitter about a mans life. I bet your also seething in resentment about K-9 the robotic dog because it a more advanced model.

854. K-7 - January 20, 2013

#853. As someone else mentioned, when is your dad, the real Jello, going to post here again? I know it is exciting for you as a teenager to be posting here, but we all miss the real Jello.

855. Disinvited - January 20, 2013

#848. M.J.

Your first sentence reads as if you think it contradicts what I said about powerful men controlling the media, but it doesn’t. The owners of the media were men, powerful men, and they decided the topic was taboo long before JFK became president.

And if it had become news, it wouldn’t have had the quite the effect you imagine. Power was brokered entirely different then. I remember how it was a common gripe that the states’ primaries were jokes with the votes tallied meaningless. Right or wrong it was a man’s world then. Publicizing his dalliances would only have made him appear more virile and strong in the smokey back rooms where power was brokered.

The French would have welcomed him with open arms and the oil controlling sheiks would have sought to curry his favor. Even Castro would have found it common ground.

I know it sounds illogical and inane but the only fallout that would have bought his presidency down then would have been if, unlike his mother with his father before him in infidelities, Jackie divorced him.

856. K-7 - January 20, 2013

And BTW, K-7 is a Star Trek reference, not a canine reference. I’m not going to spoon feed you the episode reference. You need to go back and watch TOS yourself.

857. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 20, 2013

Why is Vietnam and the Cuban Missile Crisis blamed on Kennedy or even to be congratulated for Star Trek – all posthumously?

As far as I know Kennedy was already dead before the order was given to go into Vietnam and other parties were also involved in Cuban Missile crisis, Cuba and the Soviet Union. Kennedy was one of a number of major players in that time period.

#852 – I think you are missing the entire point of Bob Orci and other’s concerns about whether the whole truth has been told about the assassination of a President of the United States. The world has been lead to believe that the president of one of the world’s most powerful nations was killed by one person, alone. We’ve been told that Lee Harvey Oswald planned and executed the assassination on his own, of his own accord, without any assistance from others. There appears to be a lot of evidence to the contrary and that much of it has been covered up. That is what is of concern. It is not whether Kennedy was a good or bad enough president or about how many women he slept with. People should stop confusing the issues. Kennedy was murdered in broad daylight with his wife sitting beside him. The only thing fortuitous about it was that the gunman was a good shooter, otherwise people may have been mourning the murder the USA’s First Lady. Wake up, people!

I, for one, have no particular interest, nor any desire to worship him or any other president or other for that matter and I doubt the others concerned do either.

858. MJ - January 20, 2013

@855. You are not aware of how out of control he was. He was having multiple dalliances, including hookers, and some at the White House. This wasn’t just a couple of affairs — this was perhaps a couple of dozen women, some hookers, and some putting the presidency at risk as the Secret Services gave them access to him.

His behavior was well well beyond the “boys will be boys” or “Mad Men-like” types of dalliances that would have been accepted even at that time.

859. Son of Jello - January 20, 2013

856 You would need a whole space station to accomodate your resentment for kennedy as for your wit. The glove box of a Type-15 Shuttlepod should do the trick.

860. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 20, 2013

“fortuitous” was sarcasm

861. MJ - January 20, 2013

@857. You need to go back and read your history of Vietnam. Kennedy started the entire fiasco by ordering the first 3000 military personal into Vietnam in late 1961, which was then steadily escalated by Kennedy to 30,000 by the time of his death. Other Vietnam domino’s fell from that point forward, including Kennedy authorizing the despicable Agent Orange to be first used in a big way in 1962, and before his death in 63, Kennedy authorizes support for the overthrow of Diem by the CIA.

People want to wish this all away and blame Vietnam on Johnson. I, for one, am not fooled.

862. K-7 - January 20, 2013

#859 Good, you looked up the reference to K-7 and so I see that you no longer think it relates to dogs.

You are making progress, but your supposedly clever reference to a Type-15 Shuttlepod to try to pretend that you know Trek references (and recover from not knowing what “K-7″ was) is not fooling me. :-)

863. MJ - January 20, 2013

K-7, I agree. Son of Jello lost all credibility here as far as I am concerned when he showed that he thought “K-7″ was a canine reference.

864. DiscoSpock - January 20, 2013

Son of Jello didn’t know the Trek reference of Space-station K-7?

Wow! Remedial Trek episode watching is in order for Son of Jello.

865. K-7 - January 20, 2013

“Wow! Remedial Trek episode watching is in order for Son of Jello.”

Agreed!

866. Red Dead Ryan - January 20, 2013

Yeah, Son of Jello’s knowledge of Trek canon seems to be less than stellar.

I mean, how could anyone on this site assume that K-7 is a dog? The term “K-9″ is actually short hand for “canine”, just like some people write “great” as “gr8″ on their license plates.

K-7 isn’t shorthand for anything. Its a designation for a deep space station. I thought that would be obvious to everyone here?

C’mon, Son of Jello, you can do better than that!

(Or maybe not)

867. Son of Jello - January 20, 2013

What you have to take into account is a president or any leader is very limited sometimes in what they can do even if they want to do what we would see as being the right thing. There are pressures from the military to get the action they want, and that pressure is divided into 3 different armed services who all want their own thing. There is also the pressure of the public relations advising him of what the best thing is to say and being told how your decisions may affect an election or your popularity. And their is also the Individuals conscience that they have to live with and not forgetting How much its all going to cost and where the money will come from and the consequences to the community.Being a president /leader is making the best compromises from a crappy situation. You don’t arrive in a position of power without owing people anything. Blaming Kennedy and holding him responsible for every decision made is just stupid.

Take JJ Abrams as an example If Star Trek into darkness is a bad movie
There are a lot of people who were involved in that decision making process that gave us STITD. To blame JJ Abrams for it all is a simplistic opinion/Idea which is the same as Blaming kennedy for everything that happend in Vietnam.

868. MJ - January 20, 2013

@867

Sorry dude, but given you didn’t know what K-7 meant on a Star Trek fan website here, I am finding a hard time taking anything else you say here seriously at this point.

869. K-7 - January 20, 2013

Jello-boy, of course if STID stinks, JJ will get most of the blame. He is the director and lead producer — the creative and mgmt lead for the entire effort. Duh!

And regarding presidential leadership, ask Ronald Reagan or FDR if the just make a bunch of bad comprises as their approach to lead the nation. What a crock! Leadership is only complex for those that have no concept of how to lead.

870. Son of Jello - January 20, 2013

That’s unfortunate Star Trek has a wide a varied fan base some like to watch it and then leave it at that. Some like to delve deeply into the details as MJ ect like to do and become experts in Space stations warp cores what happend in which episode and spend a large amount of there adult lives honing there skills in TV trivia. But here we are with one new successful ST released and anticipation for another one on the way. But what do you all do with the spirit of ST you use it to alienate new people to the franchise. Whether you take what I say seriously of not as St fans you are apart of a larger fan base a fan base that may not have the interest in knowing something that you obviously take very seriously. So your comments are counter productive to what is happening to a modern ST drawing in a new crowd of movie goers to a franchise with a reputation for having people like you who take movie props,blueprints,uniform buttons and use this knowlage to attack people, people who may just want to enjoy a TV show or movie and enjoy the message it presents.

A new opportunity for ST is available a new opportunity for a wider audience don’t ruin it with your pettiness Its time for you to change and grow like ST has if you don’t you will be left behind arguing amongst yourselv’s about nothing. Because you have shut everyone out. If you don’t like my comments ignore them

871. MJ - January 20, 2013

“yawn”

;-)

872. DiscoSpock - January 20, 2013

Let’s just hope that these new fans in this “wider audience” can spell better and whine less than Son of Jello.

873. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 20, 2013

Still people are confusing the issues. Did any of these things that President Kennedy was (partially) responsible for have anything to do with his assassination? If Lee Harvey Oswald was indeed simply a crazed lone gunman, in every sense of the word, who killed the president, that what has all this other stuff about Cuba, Vietnam, hookers, *Marilyn Monroe (one could go on) etc got to do with anything? Was Lee Harvey Oswald by himself aware of all this and so pissed off that he decided to do Kennedy in? I doubt it.

I am sorry, but the impression I get here is that because President Kennedy seems not to be the good kind of president (in hindsight, of course), then it really does not matter if his murder was part of government and/or other conspiracy or not. Nor does it matter that one man is blamed for the murder, when it may be that he was an accomplice among many more powerful than he. I mean, many of you see JFK as a self-serving ass (most likely true, but nevertheless…) so who cares about how, who, why.

I guess none of it matters, or ever has, because the USA is merely a republic, with talk of democracy and “we the people…” just being one big fat cynical joke. How you can have true freedom of speech and liberty and justice for all, which is what democracy is really about for ordinary citizens, when such negative, cynical understanding and attitudes prevail? Aren’t those words, among others, that every American child gets to say daily at school, you know, about freedoms, liberty and justice for all?

Basic attitudes affect policy, including Foreign Policy and that is where non-Americans like me do have a right to say something, because it is my country, my people, my family, me who may or may not be directly or indirectly affected by the foreign policy made by such a large, powerful nation, for better and/or worse. Get it now!!!

Do you guys have ANY IDEA how what I have reading here looks to an outsider like myself? I need to step back before my head explodes…:((!

874. DiscoSpock - January 20, 2013

Well Rose (as in Keachick), at least we in the USA are not a Constitutional “Monarchy,” with a pretend King and Queen still. We’ve grown past that phase and no longer need the silly symbolism and paternal hand-holding from a master state who colonized us.

875. MJ - January 20, 2013

Ah great, another one of Keachick’s anti-U.S. rants. :-(

Scotty, please beam me out of here!

876. Son of Jello - January 20, 2013

872 Justify your comment DiscoSpock. and I don’t mean the spelling this whole sights riddles with incorrect spelling and bad grammer.

877. K-7 - January 20, 2013

So Rose, you mean to tell me that NZ has never had any “self-serving asses” as PM? And for all this “the U.S. is a republic, not a democracy” nonsense, you do realize that a democratic republic is simply one form of a “representative democracy,” while your parliamentary system is just another type of “representative democracy”, with neither type of government being a true democracy?

In a true democracy, everyone votes on everything. I don’t think that there are any countries in the world that are true democracies today. Most are representative democracies, which includes the subsets of republican democracies and parliamentary democracies.

So your slam against the U.S. as a republic just doesn’t hold any water. I wish you would stop the silly criticisms and baiting peope here in this regard. When you say crap like ““we the people…” just being one big fat cynical joke,” you slander all of us Americans here. Frankly, I would have slapped you if you had said that to my face.

878. DiscoSpock - January 20, 2013

#876. Sure, calling people counter-productive and labeling them as petty when you are a newbie here is not going to make you any friends, and is going to cause people to not take you very seriously. Yes, you sound like a “whiner” to me. That is where I was coming from in my comment to you.

Better to take a more casual and cautious approach here when you are new instead of tearing into regulars who have been posting here for years.

879. Red Dead Ryan - January 20, 2013

#870.

C’mon, dude, you brought this on yourself when you confused a Trek reference with a dog. Before comparing K-7 (the poster) to a dog, you should have looked up what the term K-7 meant.

You claiming to be a newcomer is merely a convenient distraction concocted by you to avoid taking responisibility for your comments towards K-7.

And whenever you post something online, people have a right to read and respond to your posts. You can’t post something and then tell people not to read it if they happen to disagree.

You can’t have it both ways. SHEESH!

880. Red Dead Ryan - January 20, 2013

By the way, I live in Canada. Technically, it is a constitutional monarchy. I wish we would stop paying the Queen to be our figurehead.

However, I do see myself as purely Canadian. Not a subject of Britain.

Although I have been to Britain, and it is a nice country.

And oh yeah, I have to say that Keachick’s “holier-than-thou” preaching and chest-beating is not needed here. No one country is “better” than another. I think everyone should be proud of their own country without bashing others’ places of birth/residencies.

881. Red Dead Ryan - January 20, 2013

#879.

“responisibility=RESPONSIBILITY”

DAMN TYPOS!!!

882. Harry Ballz - January 20, 2013

Never mind President Kennedy’s character.

We’re discussing who assassinated him.

Think of it as the ultimate murder/mystery. Study the clues. Guess the answer.

883. Son of Jello - January 20, 2013

879 I didn’t say you cant read it I said you can ignore them if you don’t like them.

I didn’t bring anything on myself but if I had why not just point out where the mistake was made. This is the criticism I was making about the responses to my comment. You always go for the negative aspect. And your comments show that. You just took it as an opportunity to belittle someone. So I responded in kind. And then telling me I’m a new comer and I should watch what I say.

868. MJ – January 20, 2013

@867

Sorry dude, but given you didn’t know what K-7 meant on a Star Trek fan website here, I am finding a hard time taking anything else you say here seriously at this point.

872. DiscoSpock – January 20, 2013

Let’s just hope that these new fans in this “wider audience” can spell better and whine less than Son of Jello.

866. Red Dead Ryan – January 20, 2013

Yeah, Son of Jello’s knowledge of Trek canon seems to be less than stellar.

I mean, how could anyone on this site assume that K-7 is a dog? The term “K-9″ is actually short hand for “canine”, just like some people write “great” as “gr8″ on their license plates.

K-7 isn’t shorthand for anything. Its a designation for a deep space station. I thought that would be obvious to everyone here?

C’mon, Son of Jello, you can do better than that!

(Or maybe not)

865. K-7 – January 20, 2013

“Wow! Remedial Trek episode watching is in order for Son of Jello.”

Agreed!

864. DiscoSpock – January 20, 2013

Son of Jello didn’t know the Trek reference of Space-station K-7?

Wow! Remedial Trek episode watching is in order for Son of Jello.

You only seem to read comments to look for ways to be critical of what was said to point where you are just making it up.

Red Dead Ryan – January 20, 2013

You claiming to be a newcomer is merely a convenient distraction concocted by you to avoid taking responisibility for your comments towards K-7.

884. MJ - January 20, 2013

If LBJ was behind it, maybe it was because he legitimately thought the world with end in nuclear argegeddon if Kennedy stayed in power.

This scenario be the one thing that would explain my previous issue with the LBJ scenario where I asked how someone with such hubris and ego as LBJ, would have JFK taken out, but then wuss out on running for re-election? Well, if LBJ honestly thought that he had to kill JFK to save the nation from nuclear war, then the guy may have had the greatest heart and daring of any president in history. He has Kennedy killed to save the world, start the war on poverty, and pushes full-bore into civil rights, and then resigns when he feels so bad about Vietnam.

Kinda makes sense if you see it through. Of course, its horrible if he and the CIA killed Kennedy and violates a hell of a lot of laws, but you can see why he might have went this direction. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.

My thinking here is not without some precedent by some other critical thinkers. Steven King, in his outstanding novel, 11-22-63, postulates a post-JFK world where JFK had lived, and got us into a nuclear exchange with the Soviet Union due to his risk taking.

885. Harry Ballz - January 20, 2013

MJ

Have you ever read about the life of LBJ before he became Vice-President?

The man was as crooked and evil as the day is long. Pure scumbag his whole life.

886. MJ - January 20, 2013

@883. Jesus, is this the Trekmovie.com version of “Thanks for the Memories” by Bob Hope? :-)

Dude, like a lot of newbies, you get way too sensitive when you start off here. It’s just a web site with some fans posting. Don’t get so sensitive and so reactive. This is suppose to be fun.

887. MJ - January 20, 2013

@885. Sounds like Kennedy’s dad, and Nixon, and most everybody in power about then. Actually, I think LBJ was one of our better presidents. While Kennedy only talked Civil Rights and Poverty, LBJ actually did something about it.

Feel free to disagree, but I have always liked and respected LBJ a lot more than JFK. Although I really did like RFK — he was the real deal unlike his fraud brother.

888. So tired - January 20, 2013

@873. “Those who fail to learn history CORRECTLY are doomed to repeat it, those who fail to learn history at all… well, they are just doomed.”

One other thing, you all made fun of Son of Jello for not knowing what K-7 was, and rightly so, since the model used to represent the station was built from designs made by real scientists for a concept space station, which makes it not an obscure piece of Trek lore, but yet another incident where Trek made history, like when they correctly predicted the launch of Apollo 11 (first manned moon-shot), or showed the first interracial kiss ever seen on TV.

But then you guys completely missed Rose stating that Shinzon’s health problems were caused by him being a clone, when the actual cause was that his DNA was programmed to be triggered to suddenly age to the same physical age as Picard, and when the trigger did not come, THAT is when he started having health problems. If Shinzon had been a normal clone, with no alterations for accelerated aging, he would never have had a problem, other than from the genetic disease Picard carried, I believe it was called Shalafts Syndrome.

889. MJ - January 20, 2013

@888 Good catch !!!

890. Son of Jello - January 20, 2013

886.

Sorry dude, but given you didn’t know what K-7 meant on a Star Trek fan website here, I am finding a hard time taking anything else you say here seriously at this point.

How is that funny.

891. MJ - January 20, 2013

@890 Consider that type of remark like we are testing the new guy to see how he will respond. Will he suck it up, maybe provide a humorous response, and move on, or will he still be emailing and whining about it hours later like you are now.

892. MJ - January 20, 2013

“posting” not “emailing”

893. Red Dead Ryan - January 20, 2013

#890.

You have to let this thing go, man. You were wrong. You still are. Admit it instead of getting mad at and blaming us.

894. Son of Jello - January 20, 2013

If this is the best you can do to entertain yourselves I will leave you to it. Its not a matter of whether I was wright or wrong It was that you handled the situation so poorly By attacking someone as a group of self appointed hazers just to see if I can take a whole lot of unnecessary crap from people. What a dead end way of introducing yourself to someone new. And the attitude that I have to prove myself to you to be welcome on this sight………

895. So tired - January 20, 2013

@894 *Site* not sight

896. Son of Jello - January 20, 2013

You are a minority of people that have confirmed all the worst opinions and impressions that people have of ST fans. Why did you do that?

897. Red Dead Ryan - January 20, 2013

#894.

Hey Einstein, it was you who unfairly attacked K-7 in the first place!

898. K-7 - January 20, 2013

#894 #896. For Christ’s sake, lighten up! If we took ourselves half as seriously here as you do, we’d need Prozac just to make it through the day.

Just stop the whining and move on. Post about a different Trek topic.

899. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

897 The person or the space station. If you mean the person why not take a page out of MJs book and “suck it up” and “its all in good humor”. or maybe your own advise “Let things go man”.

900. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

898 OK K-7 here is what I have posted in the new article about the comic If your interested I will talk to you about it there

If J harrison is some kind of genetic alteration and he has some involvement with the Klingons. Maybe he offered the Klingon’s a genetic formula? goo? that would make them Stronger? Better? Faster? warriors in exchange for their help. But being a bad guy who seems to to want destruction The Klingon’s may have ended up with smooth foreheads and lesser warrior traits, like going back to one heart instead of 2 and losing their other redundant organs due to the goo being from Human DNA. It would be a rather embarrassing chapter in their history and John Harrison being human would have left a resentment for Humans and the Federation that took a long time to be resolved. Even if J harrison loses his war he still gets a win that will bring ongoing

901. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

898 IT was in response to comments about Klingon helmets and what they will look like in STITD.

902. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

Based on Worfs comments in Trials and tribbleations. should the Klingons in STITD be smooth or bumpy

903. Disinvited - January 21, 2013

#887. M.J.

Good to see you have some perspective. I disagree with you about LBJ and Nixon, vile old-school politico backbiters, both, that only come out with halos if one accepts the doctrine of “the ends justify the means” but I agree with you about RFK.

I suspect we’d agree on brother Ted but I’ll wait for you to illuminate me.

904. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

K-7 Just wanted to be sure. Is threatening to slap rose in the face. is that your version of not taking things to seriously.

905. K-7 - January 21, 2013

@900. That is an interesting theory. You know, I do think the movie may end up with the Klingon’s having captured the Botany Bay, possible through learning about its history through torturing Nero in the last movie. However, Harrison may be a descent of Khan’s base on Earth, who’s undercover as a superman in Starfleet, and he may set things in motion to have Starfleet Black Ops back his mission to rescue the Botany Bay crew on the Klingon home world.

906. So tired - January 21, 2013

@902. As I already explained on the other thread, it has already been confirmed that Klingons in STID have ridges under their helmets, as two of the Klingon characters will remove their helmets. They also have pierced ridges, this was all reported weeks ago, so your question is pointless.

Additionally, do you not see the irony of asking a question based on an episode that takes place on the space station you failed to recognize the name of?

907. MJ - January 21, 2013

@906. Actually they had better makeup and a higher budget for TMP, so they just made up some bullshit explanation as to the new look to make us canon nerds happy. The real reason is better makeup an higher budgets for the movies and TNG.

908. MJ - January 21, 2013

@903. Ted Kennedy was a well-meaning guy, who like the booz a little to much, and did not have the smarts or gravitas of his brothers, but nevertheless did pretty good in Congress for healthcare as his pet cause.

909. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

905 Yea OK. So Nero found out about the Botany Bay when he was on the Enterprise D. and then the Klingon’s found out. Is harrison a decendent living in the 23c or did he come out of the base from cryosleep in the 23c. I was just thinking that it would be more infuriating for a Klingon to make a fool out of them by offering them an improvement geneticly that makes them a better warrior but they end up closer to human than Klingon and then having them live with that shame and embarrassment There not the type of customer that you should rip off.I was just trying to come up with a plausible explanation for smooth head Klingons and a reason for them to really, really hate the Federation. But either way If harrison is on Qu’noS with genetic information starfleet would have no choice but to go after him.

Im not a fan of Khan being in the new ST but your Black ops Idea is plausable

910. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

906 So Tired I am a little concerned about that dead hoarse you seem to be beating. Go to bed sleepyhead.

911. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

906 If the information has been released about the Klingon look in STITD that still doesn’t answer the bumpy smooth issue and how it happend. In the prime timeline Harrison may have been alive but his plans failed. But his actions may still have caused the bumpy/smooth issue before starfleet took him out. So its not a matter of press releases or taking an unnecessary dig at someone. Its coming up with a theory with the facts available why don’t you join in.

912. So tired - January 21, 2013

@911. The only dead horse is yours, read post number 907, the only reason Klingons had smooth heads in TOS was because of budget. Therefore in the new timeline, they never did, problem solved.

913. So tired - January 21, 2013

@911. It’s called a retcon, ask any comic book reader about it.

914. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

912 So your saying on Qu’noS there is a make up department that every Klingon goes to and gets priettied up and then goes on a Murderous rampage. Really So tired you have to consider that war is expensive and make up may not a be priority for the active warrior. For someone who took the K-7 comment so seriously your playing fast and loose with this one.And seeing that you have said that the problem is solved are you demanding the ST community must be silent on this matter. Sorry sleepyhead it ain’t going to happen for you.
so suck it up princess

915. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

913 And just so we are clear there is no way I’m going upto some stranger with a comic book and asking what there rectums all about.

916. Disinvited - January 21, 2013

#914. Son of Jello

Actually in Earth’s history of warfare makeup has played a significant role so it might not be that unusual.

Where is the logic in equating a once alive equine to a never was alive time-traveling robot with some slight artistic bearing to a canine lifeform? ;-)

917. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

916 Yes I know but I was talking about prostetics. Some Klingon goes in and sits down and says “guive me a Worf” “would sir prefer a Morg its quite popular this fighting season”. “No! I said Worf” would that be the ST6 Worf or The DS9. etc

918. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

916 If you look at the comic book cover in the next news Item there is a picture of Cpt Picard with a Cyberman so I hope you can understand the whole K-7/K-9 thing is an easy mistake to make:)

919. Phil - January 21, 2013

@873. Somehow, I suspect that you can probably point out an example of some tribe somewhere where direct democracy works well, keeping in mind that what may be fine for some tribal people would not work well for a nation well north of 300 million people.. you seem to have a very bad grasp on civics for someone who likes to lecture people.

920. Dee - lvs moon' surface - January 21, 2013

Chris Pine,JJAbrams and Benedict Cumberbatch in Tokyo

Paramount Japan

http://youtu.be/WxR-Y4wmGso

921. Dee - lvs moon' surface - January 21, 2013

BTW… Mr. Bob Orci are you there? Please, more Karl Urban in the promotion of Into Darkness!!! Please! Please!

;-) :-)

922. Red Dead Ryan - January 21, 2013

Son Of Jello,

The Klingon ridge thing was explained in the fourth season of “Enterprise”. If the Klingons in the sequel have ridges, it just means that either some never lost their ridges, or they began to return for some Klingons. Easy.

Oh and by the way, maybe you should sit in the fridge for a while so you can chill out.

923. Red Dead Ryan - January 21, 2013

Just like Kirk’s promotion in the last movie, and for how the Enterprise could possibly survive going underwater this time, it’s CASE CLOSED for the Klingon ridge argument.

C-A-S-E C-L-O-S-E-D!!!!

924. The Sinfonian - January 21, 2013

Klingon ridges in new universe solved earlier, since the Narada had 2380′s era information: the cure was there. The Klingons had possession of the Narada for 20 or so years, remember? They maybe couldn’t get the thing to fly, but they sure could download information. Voila.

925. MJ - January 21, 2013

@911 “906 If the information has been released about the Klingon look in STITD that still doesn’t answer the bumpy smooth issue and how it happend. In the prime timeline ”

Same answer as for TMP. The producers and directors wanted a slgihtly different look for the Klingons.

The Klingons ARE NOT REAL, so in TOS, the original movies, and the new movies, some licence has been taking in modifying some their looks. THAT IS THE REAL REASON. I wish they had never tried to address it in new TV series….it’s pretend and should never have tried to been dealt with in canon. THE WANTED A DIFFERENT LOOK FOR MAKE-BELIEVE ALIENS…..that is your reason.

926. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 21, 2013

“#648 – @628/639 And I am saying your impressions of the US are wrong, first, the US is by definition not a Democracy, it is a Republic, as defined by the US Constitution.”

Then he tells us that the US is a representative democracy. Well, of course, it is, just like any other nation who claims to be a democracy. Someone else thought that republic and democracy were synonymous. They are not.

After the general confusion here, some of it due to pedantic semantics, I, Keachick, posted the Wikipedia definition of Democracy, which arguably is actually fairly correct and factual.

Given the confusion here over definitions of republic and democracy (general meaning representative democracy), it had me wondering just whether many of the American school children who get to say the Pledge of Allegiance actually get to understand what it means. Certainly people here seemed confused.

I do not deserve to be slapped in the face for raising legitimate queries arising just from the discussion that has occurred on this thread.

Post #605 I wrote – “US military occupation in a small nation on the other side of the world and with the atrocities perpetrated on ordinary peasant civilians (many of whom could neither read or write) by the most powerful nation on earth (*THE NORTH DID THEIR SHARE AS WELL – TO BE SURE).”

*My emphasis

Yet in a later posts, there is this – “#682 – “… yes American soldiers committed atrocities, but they were not alone…”

Did I say that American soldiers were the only ones committing atrocities? NO! Ref. my post #605. It would be nice if you would actually read everything I write and use what comprehension skills you clearly must have.

As for the slights made against nations/individuals who may be quite happy living in parliamentary constitutional monarchy, I might just as easily want to slap some of your faces… Despite my explanation (the indigenous NZ Maori) of why it may not be as easy as, or more beneficial for NZ to become a republic, which even our own former Prime Minister, Helen Clark thought, people here still make their sneering, ignorant comments. They have completely ignored my explanation.

#874 – “Well Rose (as in Keachick), at least we in the USA are not a Constitutional “Monarchy,” with a pretend King and Queen still. We’ve grown past that phase and no longer need the silly symbolism and paternal hand-holding from a master state who colonized us.”

Unless you are a member of an indigenous North American Indian race/tribe, then nobody colonized you. Your ancestors were the COLONIZERS. Duh.

On the other hand, one could say that the US orphaned itself by its own choice. Interestingly, people can have fathers still alive and may maintain good familial bonds with their fathers, and yet still be able to lead productive, independent lives. Their fathers/grandfathers represent their heritage and inheritance. Orphans can do very well, but it is hardly ideal. Just ask nuKirk and he didn’t even have a choice…

I guess it is a question of perspective.

927. Red Dead Ryan - January 21, 2013

Well, I actually enjoyed the Klingon/Augment plotline from “Enterprise”. It was a bit far-fetched with the ridges thing, but still, I thought it was entertaining.

We have TWO explanations for the ridges. One is canonical. The other, as MJ correctly puts it, was the idea to differentiate them from humans for TMP, the rest of the movies, and TNG.

Some may not like the canon reasoning. That’s fine. But nobody can argue against the fact that originally it was Gene Roddenberry who wanted the Klingons to have ridges. He obviously didn’t have the budget during TOS, but he did for TMP, and so from then on the Klingons had ridges.

The rest, as they say, is history.

CASE CLOSED!!!!

928. Red Dead Ryan - January 21, 2013

If I were J.J Abrams, I would have included both ridged Klingons, and non-ridged Klingons. As well as some semi-ridged Klingons. For variety’s sake.

That would shut the whiners up for good.

Oh, wait, I’m talking about Trekkies here. Son Of Jello would still find something to bitch about.

What can you do?

929. K-7 - January 21, 2013

#926. Rose, were you sober when you wrote that disjointed hard to follow post?

930. Red Dead Ryan - January 21, 2013

Why the hell does Keachick always feel the need to constantly lecture everyone else here?

Reading her arguments, you’d think New Zealand was the only civilized country in the world.

931. So tired - January 21, 2013

@915. The term is RETCON, lear to flippin read. RETCON stands for “retroactive continuity” which is like when the writers of Superman comics decided in 1985 that Superman was the only survivor of Krypton and they eliminated his cousin Supergirl from the continuity of the comics. All the readers knew Supergirl had been a part of the stories for many years, but for the characters “living” in the comic book world she had never existed and no o ne remebered her. I am really not sure where you think you even have an argument to make here, you are going total strawman, or circular logic with this crap, and you suck at it.

@929. Probably not.

932. So tired - January 21, 2013

@926. The information I passed on to you was clearly and unconfusingly presented, as well as being completely factually accurate, your nonsensical rants are just pathetic, as is you apparent inability to understand the information presented.

933. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

931 I cant belive you took the rectum comment seriously and then got angry about it.

934. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

928. Thanks man I am pretty “Bitchin” Glad that you have finally acknowledged my awesomeness.

935. Red Shirt Diaries - January 21, 2013

@933. Son of Jello,

People here just don’t like it when newbies come in here with an attitude, throw their weight around, and then cry like a baby when people understandably push back.

936. MJ - January 21, 2013

All, there is an itch in my brain that is telling me that “Son of Jello” may be someone who has posted here long before this???

I’m not saying this is the case or that I can prove this, but this “new guy”showing up with “guns blazing” at many of us here make me necessarily suspicious.

937. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

935. I made a fantastic joke. and your all seething with jealousy at my stunning sense of humor. And now poor SoTired has become so upset that hes called in security.

938. MJ - January 21, 2013

@930 “Why the hell does Keachick always feel the need to constantly lecture everyone else here? Reading her arguments, you’d think New Zealand was the only civilized country in the world.”

I’ve been to New Zealand twice — to the less populated South Island, and frankly, the people there seem a lot like people in the Pacific NW of the U.S. — resourceful, friendly, and genuinely good people. Auckland, where Keachick is from, is a large city though, so like a lot of people in large cities, you will get a skewed overly liberal viewpoint and self-aggrandizing view of themselves (e.g. Seattle versus the rest of Washington State) and their city/country, typically.

939. Disinvited - January 21, 2013

Klingons, now from earliest on they were presented as hunters/fighters/duelists who didn’t have time or much respect for sciences/scientists within their own tribes. They took by conquest what they needed (A theme later explored with the Borg.) for the most part, but could manage to trade.

From the much bantered about spacestation and later in the movies, specifically ST III, we learn they are experts in espionage and decrypting the highestly encrypted Federation data.

So, on espionage alone, it didn’t surprise me that the idea was introduced that ridged Klingons were pursuing a program that might alter their looks. Does anyone doubt regardless of how dishonorably the augment virus came to exist, that Klingon Intelligence would use it?

I’d also credit the Klingon augmentation with making Human/Klingon hybrids so facile.

940. Disinvited - January 21, 2013

#928. M.J.

Ill always foundly remember NZ as nation that became a real MOUSE THAT ROARED in that they declared themselves a nuclear free zone and then stuck to their guns.

For being able to pull that off, I don’t deny them the right to be a little haughty. Well, that and Lucy Lawless…

941. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

Hi Disinvited. They really did stick to their guns about it so much so That the French secret service went to New Zealand and blew up The Rainbow Warrior while it was in harbor Killing one of the crew. They did this to stop the ship from interfering with Nuclear testing at Muaruo Atol (its in the south pacific). The New Zealand Police captured 2 French agents and charged them with manslauter and sent them to prison for 10 years. But they were out and deported in 2 years (politics). :).

942. MJ - January 21, 2013

@941. Half of the time their is a military F-up in the world, the French are involved. LOL

@940. I also like the way NZ gives safe harbor to the anti-whaling ships like the Sea Shepard, unlike Austrialia, who pretendts to help, but really doesn’t want to piss off Japan too much.

I am on record as saying NZ is one of my favorite countries! I just don’t like it when someone from that country makes fun of “We the People” in the U.S. Constitution and infers that the U.S. is somehow a less democracy than their country — that is close to personally insulting a whole people.

943. crazydaystrom - January 21, 2013

929. Red Dead Ryan -
“Well, I actually enjoyed the Klingon/Augment plotline from “Enterprise”….

We have TWO explanations for the ridges. One is canonical. The other…was the idea to differentiate them from humans for TMP, the rest of the movies, and TNG.

Some may not like the canon reasoning. That’s fine. But nobody can argue against the fact that originally it was Gene Roddenberry who wanted the Klingons to have ridges. He obviously didn’t have the budget during TOS, but he did for TMP, and so from then on the Klingons had ridges.”

The Enterprise eps that explained the the Klingon differences are favorites of mine and some great ‘Trek stuff’ from Many Coto.

“The rest, as they say, is history.”

Amen

944. Disinvited - January 21, 2013

#940.

foundly=fondly

945. Harry Ballz - January 21, 2013

Some people here seem to be so uptight, if you shoved a piece of coal up their ass, in two weeks you’d have a diamond!

946. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

943 The group you are rerfering to is called Sea Shepherd. And one of their ships was docked in Tasmania (the Island at the bottom of Australia) as recently as December 2012. Also the mayor of Fremantle (Western Australia it is to the far left if you look on a map) christened one of their ships and also Fremantle Australia is its home port and is an Australian registered vessle. They also have one of their Main Offices in Melbourne (also in Australia). So you see Australia is supportive of this cause and is more than happy to piss of the Japanese. So MJ I think your just pretending to know what your talking about.

947. Aurore - January 21, 2013

“Some people here seem to be so uptight, if you shoved a piece of coal up their ass, in two weeks you’d have a diamond!”
_______

“Some people”?

Afraid to name names ?

Pussy.

:)

(I was wondering when you would appear…)

948. crazydaystrom - January 21, 2013

947. Aurore – January 21, 2013
“Some people here seem to be so uptight, if you shoved a piece of coal up their ass, in two weeks you’d have a diamond!”
_______

“Some people”?

Afraid to name names ?
_____________________________

Yeah Harry. Name names and give addresses. I got a few lumps of coal for Christmas that I’d like to..ah..invest, for fun and profit.

______________________________

“Pussy.”
_________

That reminds me….

949. Harry Ballz - January 21, 2013

When I would appear?

Aurore, my darling, how I could resist showing up when I know you are here?

950. Harry Ballz - January 21, 2013

Oh, and Aurore…..”Pussy”?

meow!

951. Aurore - January 21, 2013

“Some people here seem to be so uptight, if you shoved a piece of coal up their ass, in two weeks you’d have a diamond!”
______

….Yeah.

I personally have no problem with that.

Name names! For f*ck ‘s sake!!!

I am interested …Shirley…I mean surely you can understand why….

….Diamonds are foreverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr…..

:)

952. Disinvited - January 21, 2013

#943. crazydaystrom

One thing I could never understand was over at Irwin Allen Productions, Allen was cutting corners all over the place but he could afford ridged makeup appliances (PI) for his aliens?

953. Aurore - January 21, 2013

“Oh, and Aurore…..’Pussy’?
meow!”
______

Awwww….

…..Mwa!

……Um….Don’t change the subject !!!!!

954. Red Dead Ryan - January 21, 2013

I think Son of Jello has been here before. He’s probably one of those “classic” trolls who adopt multiple post-names so that they can come on here and deliberately piss the rest of us off.

Not to mention his massive ego.

955. MJ - January 21, 2013

@946 “So MJ I think your just pretending to know what your talking about.”

Hey Einstein, obviously you missed the last season of “Whale Wars” where Australia refused to intervene when the Japanese whaling fleet was harassing one of the Sea Shepard’s vessels INSIDE AUSTRALIAN WATERS and even with an AUSTRALIAN NATIONAL on board. They contacted the Australian government and THEY REFUSED TO INTERVENE. Your quick and dirty “pretend internet research” is not enough to catch me making a mistake.

Hey charlatan, you’d better bring your A-game the next time you attempt to challenge my info here, because B-game challenges like the one you just tried here are doomed to continuously fail.

OK Son of Jello? Or would you prefer, Stunkill or another name? I think you have been here many times before. ;-)

956. Red Dead Ryan - January 21, 2013

I’ll bet once Anthony returns, Son of Jello disappears like a fart in the wind.

957. dmduncan - January 21, 2013

Oy! I remember when 900 + posts was an achievement. Now, it’s just what happens when AP goes AWOL.

958. Red Shirt Diaries - January 21, 2013

Son of Jello (or Stunkill?).

You are also wrong about Sea Shepard’s HQ. It is in Washington State, USA.

959. MJ - January 21, 2013

@957. I used to get upset when Anthony went AWOL. Not anymore. I just pretend he is a rich guy in the 1920′s, who spends his summers in the Hamptons, and his Winters in the Swiss Alps.

960. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

954.

Red Dead Ryan. I think you are mistaking that I have Confidence in what I’m saying for Ego, its a common mistake to make and I forgive you. And I’m only posting under one name (Son of Jello) to use two Names would be an irresponsible act that would overwhelm you with all my Jelly sweet Awesomeness.

961. Stunkill - January 21, 2013

Son of Jello is not me. But I now who he is, and he has been here before under another name.

962. Stunkill - January 21, 2013

Here is a hint. Wal-Mart, Target, Sears and……

963. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

958. They have 2 headquarters Friday Harbor Washington and Melbourne Victoria.

MJ Really MJ someone who gets their information and bases their entire opinion on a Television show they watched called laugh………. Wale Wars.
you just made a fool of yourself. Thanks for the Einstein comment its very complimentary of you.

964. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 21, 2013

You have all deliberately misinterpreted and taken out of context my comments and accused me of things I never wrote or inferred. I never wrote that NZ politicians cannot be self-serving asses. Nor do I fob off someone with comments like “Well life is not fair…” type stuff and nor am I drunk, not sober, when commenting on topics here. I did not make the threat to slap someone’s face first.

It was not me who wrote that NZ was a republic, nor did I think (representative) democracy was synonymous with republic. That was another poster, presumably American.

Finally, everything I have written on this subject has been in RESPONSE to what other posters have written here.

965. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

Stunkill so far I’m Einstein, Bill Cosbys dead son and I had an affair in the early 70s an apparently Red Dead Thinks i’m Anthony now. I’v never seen your posts Stunkill but i’v been copping a lot of crap for them. What did you say to these people to get them so uppity.

966. MJ - January 21, 2013

@963

(1) Whale Wars is the Discovery documentary of the actual missions, not your fake attempt to do and internet search to try to catch me in some wrong facts. I watch 10 hours per years of their actual missions, dude. Nice try. Is that all you could come up with? Really? LOL

(2) I just checked regarding your response above to Red Shirt, and you are wrong their as well. The Sea Shepard web site very clearly says:

USA – INTERNATIONAL HEADQUARTERS
PO Box 2616
Friday Harbor WA 98250
USA

There is NOTHING above the Australia address saying that it is a co-HQ as you suggest. You are either deliberately lying here to try to cover up your mistake, or are misinformed based on your shoddy “Internet research” that you tried to pull together to sound sensible on a topic that you obviously know nothing about except for your hasty cut and paste job where you tried to sound knowledgeable. Again, LOL

“I’m laughing at the superior intellect.”

967. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

Rose These people are not concerned about what you wright they just like to criticise you for writing it. I’v been constantly misquoted by these yo-yo’s
there more concerned in picking at your spellig mistakes rather than thinking about what you have posted and responding with a well thought out and relevent answer or an opinion based on what they saw on TV the night before And I think K-7 threatening to slap you across the face is an example of how these people are more interested in conflict with people rather than conversing with you. They dont care what you say they just want to post witless answers.

968. Capes - January 21, 2013

Just checking….This is a Star Trek thread right?

And on another topic…..SO. CLOSE. TO. 1000!!!!!!!

Later…..stories about my first five years. I call it:
AFTER THE WHEAT FIELD!!!!!!

You’re gonna love it……

969. K-7 - January 21, 2013

#966 So Son of Jello didn’t know what K-7 meant, AND he couldn’t even get the headquarters of Sea Shepard right?

#964. So you won’t admit making fun of “We the People”, the opening line of the U.S. Constitution, that so many of us in the U.S. take to heart and are proud of??? To remind you, Rose, here is EXACTLY what you said:

“I guess none of it matters, or ever has, because the USA is merely a republic, with talk of democracy and “we the people…” just being one big fat cynical joke”

I find this statement unacceptable and grossly insulting, and I will stand by my statement that I would indeed slap you in the face it you or anyone else from another country said this to me personally.

970. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

flag_australia_tiny

MJ
AUSTRALIA

Suite 7, 288 Brunswick Street
Fitzroy, VIC 3065

Tel: + 61 3 9445 0323
E-mail: australia@seashepherd.org

Australia Business Number (ABN): 38123339499

971. K-7 - January 21, 2013

Stunkill, I get it. You are saying that Son of Jello is the guy who use to post as “kmart” — another troublemaker here the past few months who is no longer posting (no doubt since he is now Son of Jello). OK, I’ll buy that.

972. Red Dead Ryan - January 21, 2013

Son of Jello, I did not call you Anthony. I said when Anthony gets back, you will probably disappear. Which means that you’ll be too afraid to piss everyone off when the boss is watching you.

“When the cat is away, the rat comes out to play”.

“When the cat comes back, the rat hides in a sack”.

973. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

MJ you are to quick to be criticle and watching TV is not the answer to Involment in an issue or a reliable source of information. So no MJ I am not a lier or shoddy in my research. Once again MJ your just pretending to know what you are talking about.

974. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

Why on earth would you think that and if the poor guy reads all this no wonder he keeps disapearing

975. DiscoSpock - January 21, 2013

Son of Jello, given this argument between you and MJ, I just went to the Sea Shepard web site myself. MJ is correct — the “International HQ” is show solely as in Washington State. The Australian office, in addition to other offices worldwide are mentioned, but is clearly shows only 1 HQ listing in WA state. You specifically said, “they have 2 headquarters Friday Harbor Washington and Melbourne Victoria.” That is simply false. You really need to stop making shit up!

976. Red Dead Ryan - January 21, 2013

Honestly, this is getting ridiculous. We have to put up with trolling from Keachick and Son of Jello. They’ve been PROVEN WRONG mulitple times in regards to their “arguments”, yet continue to insist how they are right, and are resorting to anger and name calling.

Unbelievable.

977. MJ - January 21, 2013

10 hours of actual documentary mission footage per year x 4 years (40 hours of education) is my investment in knowing about Sea Shepard versus you apparently doing a 5 minute internet cut and paste job that showed you didn’t even know where the fracking Sea Shepard headquarters is…just like you didn’t even know that K-7 was a Trek space station (you thought is was a dog reference).

LOL You are entertaining me — I’ll give you that much!

978. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

Stunkill No not kmart But I think i’v read one of his posts. Is he the guy who has the wife that hides his Star Trek posters behind the cupboard .I’m sure he mentioned it in the Poster and ring news article

http://trekmovie.com/2013/01/08/qmx-taking-orders-for-starfleet-academy-ring-replica-reveal-new-set-of-retro-tos-posters/

979. K-7 - January 21, 2013

#978. Very interesting how you were so quick to respond to the “kmart” thing. Very Interesting.

I think you are either kmart, or you are Stunkill, who is trying to throw us off.

980. Red Shirt Diaries - January 21, 2013

Stunkill = kmart = Son of Jello

981. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

K-7 I remembered Kmart because of what he said about his wife hiding the posters. I thought that was kinda sad. He said he was going to get one for his office so he could look at it at work. Not only am I the awesome Son of Jello now I’m becoming a conspiracy theory WOW I truly am amazing. and if you figure out my other post name that I dont use anymore (I only post under one name) your going to kick yourself for not seeing the obvious. which dosen,t surprise me.

982. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

MJ 10 hrs of TV wow. why educate yourself when TV tells you what your opinion should be. Quoting your television watching beaviuor makes you sound like an Idiot to me. The next thing you going to do is start quoting wikipedia and sorry MJ there is no coming back from that.

983. DiscoSpock - January 21, 2013

As MJ has stated, he has watched 40 hours of documentary television on the actual missions of the Sea Shepard. That is actually pretty impressive. Unless you are an academic who has researched in detail the Sea Shepard, or unless you have been one of its crew, I really doubt you can measure up to that. Your “ha ha it’s a TV show” platitudes aren’t very credible, and you have already been shown to have factually incorrect information on Sea Shepard. I don’t really see where you are coming from on this besides your juvenile slams towards MJ that aren’t really gaining any traction here???

984. MJ - January 21, 2013

@983 “Unless you are an academic who has researched in detail the Sea Shepard, or unless you have been one of its crew, I really doubt you can measure up to that. Your “ha ha it’s a TV show” platitudes aren’t very credible, and you have already been shown to have factually incorrect information on Sea Shepard.”

Exactly, DiscoSpock. Well said!

985. K-7 - January 21, 2013

All, it now wonder that Son of Jello doesn’t watch any TV shows….remember, he didn’t even see The Trouble with Tribbles to know that my name, “K-7″, was a Starfleet Space Station. So of course he doesn’t watch TV, Trek included. LOL

986. Red Shirt Diaries - January 21, 2013

Son of Jelly = Son of Jello Biafra

Jello Biafra was with the punk group, Dead Kennedy’s.

So me thinks this person posting may be one of the people who continually debate the Kennedy assassination here on this website. Perhaps Harry Ballz or even Bob Orci?

987. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

983 977 DiscoSpock MJ watching television is no substitute for research. To properly understand a subject takes more than watching a couple of box sets on a topic. I think you will find that in any course of study it is the differing opinions that create the whole Image. And its these differing views of a subject that allows for an individual to form their own opinion. Watching Whale Wars for 40 hrs is not academic research and has no credibility. and is not a substitute for an informed and balanced opinion. Which is why universities schools etc employ people who have BA Masters and Doctorates. the reason they do this and the reason that people trust and rely on their opinion is because they understand there subject and what it consists of they don’t ask go and ask MJ. But even after 40hrs of television MJ had no Idea about She Shepard and its activities are supported in Australia. All he new was he saw some action packed scenes of wales being killed accompanied by a narration by guy with a voice that adds drama to the Images. All MJ new was what the TV show told him and his answer’ clearly show this. MJ next time you buy a box set whether it be When Dolphins Crash or When Octopuses F-ck up be aware and take note of who published,produced and paid for it this I hope will make you understand that the people who paid for it will push their opinion of the issue. Which is why poor MJ had no Idea that Sea Shepard has their ships docked here and registered as Australian vessles and SeaShepard has an office here. He came strait back with your a lier and quoted that Australia didn’t offer assistence even when there was an Aust national on board MJ was quoting the drama he saw and not the substance of what was happening The Australian Gov deals directly with the Japanese. It dosent go out and start banging its navy into a bunch of fishing boats and its certanly not going to get involved with a group of people who use Laser pointers to attempt to blind the helmsman of a ship at sea. MJ stick to Star Trek its what your good at.

988. Harry Ballz - January 21, 2013

@986

I don’t post under other names. It takes ballz to use this one!

989. So tired - January 21, 2013

Well, I was gonna say it was too bad that my phone won’t let me comment after a thread hits 500 posts or so, so I had to wait until I got off work to comment again, but looking at the usual pile of orally spewed fecal matter coming from Son of Jello/whoever and Rose, I am kinda glad I missed the last 10 hours or so of this endlessly repetitious cycle of these two (?) making unimaginably stupid and erroneous statements, then receiving detailed, clear, correction from others, and attempting to retort with even further distortions, half-truths, and out and out made up bullsh-t.

Check you guys in a few days

PS For the record, my name is So tired because my wife will be giving birth any day now so on top of working full time to support my present 3 children (with NO assistance from our government, unlike 60 percent of our population), I am dealing with almost daily trips to the doctor, and so on. If you want to make fun of me for handling my responsibilities, then you can go straight to h-ll and I hope you burn for all eternity.

I Pledge Aliegence, To The Flag, Of The United States Of America, And To The Republic, For Which It Stands, One Nation, Under God, With Liberty And Justice For All.

990. MJ - January 21, 2013

@987. Nice “cut and paste” again. This from the guy who claimed Sea Shepard’s HQ was in Australia, when that has now been proven by several of us here to be an OUTRIGHT LIE

And if you are inferring that you are a graduate level researcher who has written pier reviewed papers on Sea Shepard, then please provide your credentials? You belittle my knowledge here from watching the documentary (and yes, I have seen Brisbane Harbor in the show multiple times), but where are your credentials other than pulling your info off the internet, and incorrect info at that?

Here is a guy who’s into is cutting and pasting from the internet information, some of which has already been proven wrong, complaining about information from the Award-Winning Discovery Channel documentary on the Sea Shepard operations, including actual mission footage — which I have watched for 4 seasons — 40 hours worth of documentary information on Sea Shepard operations. Comparing this to like sitcoms or network TV is outrageous at best, and reeks of an intellectually bankrupt mind at worst.

And we know you don’t watch TV, otherwise you would know what K-7 means had you ever bothered to catch The Trouble with Tribbles. Maybe mix in a little Star Trek the next time you watch TV; you can do that after the you figure out where Sea Shepard’s International HQ is really located.

991. MJ - January 21, 2013

@987 ….and by the way:

Definition:

par·a·graph
/ˈparəˌgraf/
Noun
A distinct section of a piece of writing, usually dealing with a single theme and indicated by a new line, indentation, or numbering.
Verb
Arrange (a piece of writing) in paragraphs.
Synonyms
section – article – clause – item

992. MJ - January 21, 2013

@989 “Well, I was gonna say it was too bad that my phone won’t let me comment after a thread hits 500 posts or so, so I had to wait until I got off work to comment again, but looking at the usual pile of orally spewed fecal matter coming from Son of Jello/whoever and Rose, I am kinda glad I missed the last 10 hours or so of this endlessly repetitious cycle of these two (?) making unimaginably stupid and erroneous statements, then receiving detailed, clear, correction from others, and attempting to retort with even further distortions, half-truths, and out and out made up bullsh-t.”

Yea, I wish I had done something more productive today as well then respond to this crap. Sleeping comes to mind. LOL

Good luck with the new baby, dude — best wishes!!!!!

993. DiscoSpock - January 21, 2013

#987. Son of Jello, I am completely confused by your post. Are you saying that you have and BA or Masters or Doctorate degree and have written academic papers related to Sea Shepard operations?

BTW, I completely disagree that a person can’t pick up great and meaningful information from well done documentaries on PBS, The History Channel, Discovery, etc. You seem to have elitist viewpoints here, and you also fail to realize that many academic research papers have agendas and funding sources behind them just like documentary tv shows may have — you would have to be incredibly naive to not know this.

All of the back and forth by you and MJ seems kind of pointless now — obviously he messed up on not knowing about all of Australia’s involvement, and obviously you messed up on claiming the HQ was located in Australia. Why don’t you guys call it even an move on?

994. MJ - January 21, 2013

@993 “BTW, I completely disagree that a person can’t pick up great and meaningful information from well done documentaries on PBS, The History Channel, Discovery, etc. You seem to have elitist viewpoints here, and you also fail to realize that many academic research papers have agendas and funding sources behind them just like documentary tv shows may have — you would have to be incredibly naive to not know this.”

Good point. I’ll bet his information is coming from Australian sources that play up Australia’s role, including the falsified info about Australia being the international HQ for Sea Shepard. Kind of like Chekov always saying the Russians invented stuff….let’s hope that Son of Jello at least gets that Trek references…LOL

995. K-7 - January 21, 2013

Don’t count on Jello-boy getting the Chekov reference. :-))

996. Red Dead Ryan - January 21, 2013

This is what I hate. Anthony goes AWOL for over a week, and some nutbar troll (in this case, Son of Jello) hijacks this thread with his arrogant, factually inaccurate tirades.

And then Keachick proceeds to lecture everyone with her “holier-than-thou” preachy posts.

Gimme a break!

SHEESH!!!

997. Red Dead Ryan - January 21, 2013

Also, Son of Jello really needs to learn how to spell. His rants are riddled with countless typos.

998. Red Shirt Diaries - January 21, 2013

Son of Jello, are you aware of this travesty — I thought you said Australia was not influenced by Japan???:

“On the eve of Sea Shepherd and its three ships’ departure to defend whales in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary, the government of Australia has tossed an obstruction in our path designed to delay our plans to confront the Japanese whaling fleet.

Chris Aultman, who has been our helicopter pilot annually since 2005, was today denied his visa to Australia. He was not given a reason for this decision.

Chris Aultman, a United States citizen, a veteran of the U.S. Marine Corp, a professional helicopter pilot, a star of Animal Planet’s Whale Wars series, and a man who does not have a criminal record, has been told he will not be permitted a visa to enter Australia. The Australian Embassy in Washington D.C. would not give him a reason.

It appears that the Japanese ambassador to Australia has been making phone calls.

Australia denied visas for Captain Paul Watson and 1st officer Peter Hammarstedt two years ago. After a two-month delay, 25,000 Australian signatures on a petition, and the assistance of former Australian Environment Minister Ian Campbell and Tasmanian Senator Bob Brown, Peter and Paul were finally granted visas. No reasons were given for the denial or the delay.

Now it appears that Australia is seeking to keep the Sea Shepherd helicopter grounded by denying a visa to our veteran helicopter pilot. Australia has also refused to send a government ship to the Southern Ocean to keep the peace in the Australian Antarctic territorial waters and the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary.”

999. Red Dead Ryan - January 21, 2013

#998.

Ooops!

:-)

1000. MJ - January 21, 2013

Red Shirt, thank you for that post. That is exactly what I what I was saying earlier. New Zealand is much more friendly in general to the Sea Shepard program than Australia has been. Guess why — Australia depends on Japan’s huge purchases of its rare metals for electronics, etc. Sure, Australia will pay lip service to Sea Shepard and let it’s ship dock at Brisbane, but the gov’t is at best luke warm to Sea Shepard as they don’t want to rock the boat too much with Japan.

This proves my point completely — thanks!

1001. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

MJ why do you say cut and paste. All my comments are my own and have not been plagiarized from another source.

Poor MJ so angry and upset Its to much for you to maybe back away on your acusation of me being a liar SeaShepard has a head office in Australia. Im sorry that makes you angry and your comments look foolish but there you are. Why you continue to wind your self up over how it was frased is symantics and makes you come across as petty.

Yes I am a graduate student (But the odd thing is you and others will attack me for having one and use it as a source of criticism) no it wasen’t about SeaShepard. No one is going to study for a BA in SeaShepard. What they would do is study maybe biology, Oceanography or Protest Movements, Politics or Political activism and the Enviromentl Movement. There is no peer reviewed papers in SeaShepard. If you get away from the TV and put in some hard yards doing research or study.You would find any paper published on the topic would be under the heading and part off the above mentioned areas of study and not a subject on its own.Your trying to compare higher education with television viewing is ludercrus there is a huge distinction between the 2 one is an education the other in informed entertainment. At no point did I compere your Boxset of DVDs on Whale Wars. to sitcoms I compared it to When Dolphins Crash and When Octopusses f-ck up neither of which are television shows (yet)

You saw Brisbane Harbor in your DVD. That’s great why did you bring it up and what has it to do with anything?

Whether the documentary has won an award or was made by the discovery channel or Disney Its no substitute for study, And proclaiming it as a source to make yourself sound credible is just silly. MJ I was under the impression you were a pretty clever person but MJ you have dissapointed me. And the reason I say that is your best advise to me is watch more TV

MJ if you have something productive to do I would be amazed. I doubt that anyone would be persuing you for your TV watching skills. So I will end on the most laughable aspect of you comments. Cut and paste, cut and paste what a hack he’s cutting and pasting.And the final response from you is a cut and paste of the dictionary meaning of paragraph. You have lost your way in your own argument.

1002. boborci - January 21, 2013

http://www.examiner.com/article/martin-king-s-family-share-civil-trial-case-that-us-govt-assassinated-martin

posted in honor of MLK day.

1003. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

Congradulations MJ you were number 1000 hoooraaaaaaay for you buddy.

1004. MJ - January 21, 2013

@1001. Again, you reference “research” into Sea Shepard to discount my information from the documentary, but yet you offer no research results at all. You have a lot of words in your latest post, but no substance. I am disappointed that this was all could come up with. I was expecting some research findings given your earlier posts.

BTW, I have two Masters Degrees (and MA and and MS), but I am not in the habit of flaunting those or behaving like an elitist. I only mention this because your falsely accuse me of belittling advanced degrees. I don’t use my education achievements to belittle others…that is not the way I roll.

I proudly stand by my watching every episode to date of the outstanding award-winning documentary Whale Wars, and offer no apology to you for referencing this.

You say I have lost my way in this argument, but at least I sourced something — you give vague references to better research than the documentary I mention, but yet you offer no specific references to research papers or findings. Short answer is – you don’t have any references like this and are just blowing smoke up all of our asses here.

Nice try dude, but you are not fooling anyone here. You are all smoke and mirrors, with no substance to back up what you are saying. I’d make a clever Star Trek reference here in closing, but given that you probably won’t know it, I’ll pass on it this time.

1005. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

Hey fellas Im not being rude I need to go out for a while. I will try to respond to you comments later. The other thing I would like to say is I think this is a positive thing for all of you you have learnt about Australia New Zealand and probubly thougt about things that may not have occured to you in your normal days thoughts. This is a good thing and I hope you spend some time during the day to think of MLK on his day of rememberance.

1006. The Vulcanista }:-) - January 21, 2013

1005. };-p

1007. The Vulcanista }:-) - January 21, 2013

Oops.

Nice to see Harry’s still here flirtin’ wit teh Laydeez!

Peace. Live long and Prosper
The Vulcanista }:-)

1008. Son of Jello - January 21, 2013

MJ there is no way you have either of those things. There is nothing in the way you write and how you express yourself that shows that level of education. I would say hi school at best.

1009. MJ - January 21, 2013

@1005. No problem. For what it is worth, I have traveled to Australia once, and to New Zealand twice, and loved the experience of both countries.

Have a good night!

1010. MJ - January 21, 2013

@1009. “hi school” Is that where people greet each other all day??? LOL

I am positive that you are a high school graduate, and in getting high from the ole bong! ;-)

And don’t forget that I know how to write in paragraphs, unlike you (until I trained you).

1011. K-7 - January 21, 2013

Son of Jello,

You are here on a Trek site and thought my name was a canine reference. That tells me all I need to know about your level of education.

And did you really say “hi” shcool? Really?

In all serious, how old are you? 14?

1012. Red Dead Ryan - January 21, 2013

#1008.

I thought you said you were going to sign off for the night?

1013. Red Dead Ryan - January 21, 2013

#1011.

I would put his education level around kindergarten to grade 3.

K-3. Ha!

1014. DiscoSpock - January 21, 2013

Son of Jello: “Yes I am a graduate student (But the odd thing is you and others will attack me for having one and use it as a source of criticism)”

MJ: “I have two Masters Degrees (and MA and and MS),…”

Son of Jello: “MJ there is no way you have either of those things”

Interesting. Son of Jello throws out his advanced degree but complains that he will get criticized and attacked unfairly for it, but then when MJ mentions his degrees, Son of Jello immediately attacks MJ for his advanced degrees.

What a hypocrite and total jerk — he treats others much differently than he asks all of us to treat him.

1015. Red Dead Ryan - January 21, 2013

I agree. The level of hypocrisy being displayed by Son of Jello is absolutely staggering.

He’d make every member of Congress blush!

1016. K-7 - January 21, 2013

“K-3. Ha!”

Red Dead, is that a dog reference?

1017. Red Dead Ryan - January 21, 2013

#1016.

Yeah, K-3 is one-third of K-9. So, one third of a dog, which I suspect is the intelligence level of Son of Jello. :-)

1018. K-7 - January 21, 2013

#1013

“K-3. Ha!”

Red Dead,

That’s a dog reference, right?

1019. K-7 - January 21, 2013

whoops, my earlier post did not stay,but there it is again now…weird?

1020. K-7 - January 21, 2013

@1017 You just insulted all dogs everywhere.

1021. Disinvited - January 21, 2013

There’s no accounting for sock puppetry but the real kmart is a long time occassional poster that really knows his stuff about filmstock and lenses used in the industry. Enough that I believe him when he claims to have ineterviewed people in the industry for publication. I suspect that he’s written for CINEFEX, a magazine with which I have had more than a passing aquaintance antemillennium starting with its first issue.

1022. Aurore - January 22, 2013

“I don’t post under other names. It takes ballz to use this one!”
_____

The flip side is that it might attract men parading as women…to flirt with you….Don’t judge me; I could be your type…

:)

Hi, sir.
My real name is David. I’m from the States. For realz.

Still friends?

1023. Aurore - January 22, 2013

1002. boborci – January 21, 2013
______

Thank you for the link.

1024. Disinvited - January 22, 2013

1001. K-7

To be accurate, he thought your name was an earlier model of a time-traveling robot from with a passing resemblance to a dog from another franchise. Not that there’s any reason posters to a Trek site should know that.

1025. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 22, 2013

I do not troll nor spew fecal matter, nor do I (intentionally) lie or do any of the stuff that one or two people have accused me of doing. Yes indeed, where is the moderator?

Two things – First on my comment re NZ being slightly more of a democracy than the US. It was not my assertion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy

I posted this link before at #693. If you scroll down to the 20th and 21st Centuries topic and look at the map, you will see for yourselves what I mean.

“#964. So you won’t admit making fun of “We the People”, the opening line of the U.S. Constitution, that so many of us in the U.S. take to heart and are proud of??? To remind you, Rose, here is EXACTLY what you said:
“I guess none of it matters, or ever has, because the USA is merely a republic, with talk of democracy and “we the people…” just being one big fat cynical joke”’

I was not making fun of “We the People”, anything but!!! Read the comment within the full context of my original post at #874. However, I do wonder if some Americans do – I mean only 53% of all eligible people bothered to vote in the last presidential election. How can that be a truly representative democracy? In order for a democratic system to work properly and fairly within the mechanisms put in place by Founding Fathers or other, there really needs to be as much active participation by as many people as possible – we the people. And yes, You are the people.

It is not just America. This applies to people of all (representative) democracies, whether the nation is a republic or a constitutional monarchy.

Why is this described as preachy or “holier-than-thou”? Perhaps idealistic, but then who are we really without having ideals? Is what I have written here simply me spewing fecal matter.

I am really disgusted and offended. Some of the posters have trivialized and misconstrued my previous comments. Perhaps I take the lines of the US Constitution beginning with “We the People…” more seriously and to heart than some of you do here.

If this is just more diatribe to some of you, then so be it. Right now, I am not sure who I feel more sorry for right now – myself or some of you.

1026. Aurore - January 22, 2013

Mr. Ballz ( assuming it’s the real you), one day, if you are nice, I will tell you about my theory regarding sock puppetry on these boards. You won’t believe it. You’ll think I’m crazy. It is a fact that you already do, but, still…

:)

Of course, it is not a priority ; “real life” conspiracies are definitely more deserving of my (your) attention, right now.

1027. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 22, 2013

Are you all having fun bitching at me and Son of Jello? Are your tighty whiteys feeling that much tighter, tingly? Good for you.

FWIW, I didn’t know what K-7 was or meant? Should everyone have to know that? Is rudeness required? So what are you, K-7?

https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=K-7&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

MJ – “I’ve been to New Zealand twice — to the less populated South Island, and frankly, the people there seem a lot like people in the Pacific NW of the U.S. — resourceful, friendly, and genuinely good people. Auckland, where Keachick is from, is a large city though, so like a lot of people in large cities, you will get a skewed overly liberal viewpoint and self-aggrandizing view of themselves (e.g. Seattle versus the rest of Washington State) and their city/country, typically.”

Tell me, does this “skewed overly liberal viewpoint and self-aggrandizing view” increase with the size of the city? You see, the greater Auckland area has 1.5 million people (2012) whereas the greater Los Angeles area (where MJ lives) has, as at 2010, 12,150,996.

Auckland is NZ’s largest city and has 34% of NZ’s total population but is hardly big as cities go, especially in Asian, European or North and South American countries. Well, actually, almost anywhere outside of NZ. It does seem quite big to me at times, but after I arrived back from living in London, I wondered where everybody was.

If I was to follow MJ’s logic, then the obvious conclusion would be that someone living in a much bigger and more densely populated city like Los Angeles would be more likely to “get a skewed overly liberal viewpoint and self-aggrandizing view of themselves” as opposed to being “resourceful, friendly, and genuinely good people”.

Just following MJ’s logic – nothing to do with me. There you go, all you big city dweller, you read it here first!

MJ – gotta love ‘im…:/

1028. Aurore - January 22, 2013

“Are you all having fun bitching at me….?”
_____

I hope I am not included in the “all” you are referencing.

None of my posts on this here thread were about you….

…Except for the one I am typing now, of course.

And, I did not remember what K-7 was either.

From time to time, I imply that I am not a “true fan”…it is for a (good) reason; I don’t remember everything about every single TOS episode I’ve watched, over the years.

Besides, being a TOS only fan, there are many references I do not get….without the help of Google……

So what?

:)

1029. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 22, 2013

Certainly not, Aurore. I am sorry if you thought I was referring to you. Not at all. They know who they are.

1030. MJ - January 22, 2013

@1028. Well actuallly, I kind of agree with your point there!

1031. MJ - January 22, 2013

BTW, I don’t live in LA, but do live in Southern California.

1032. Phil - January 22, 2013

Enough people tend to accept conspiracy as gospel truth, here is an old NPR piece that explores why….

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=123127032

1033. Phil - January 22, 2013

@1028. The folks who fling ‘true fan’ charges around are compensating for some other weakness in the debate. Been watching Trek since the late seventies, and forgot that Janice Rand surfaced in one of the movies as a redhead. From the reaction I got you would have thought I’d have taken a crap in the church baptistry, Hey, if that makes me a fair weather fan, then so be it.

1034. Harry Ballz - January 22, 2013

Aurore

if you have something important to discuss, you DO have my private email.

1035. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 22, 2013

Who has been flinging “true fan” charges around? I wouldn’t know a “true fan”. I don’t know even if I am a “true fan”.

So, MJ, I take it that you would think that my sister, who now lives outside of the province of Auckland, due to recent boundary changes, has managed to become more akin to a “resourceful, friendly, and genuinely good people”.

Never mind, that she has been always been pretty much that already, despite having, at one mind, lived in an apartment block in central Auckland.

Good to know how you evaluate people – for future reference. Who knew it was that simple…:/

1036. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 22, 2013

Edit – darn – meant to write “…at one time…”

1037. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 22, 2013

As well as in Sydney, Australia, with a population about three times greater than Auckland.

1038. So tired - January 22, 2013

Well, this is my absolute last post on this subject.

First, I am from a town of less than 100 thousand people, while I find MJ occasionally arrogant, the sheer vile level of arrogance, ignorance and presumption from Rose is beyond staggering.

Second, I have never contradicted myself in any statements made about my country, anything a reader percieves as a contradiction is the result of their own inability and refusal to understand what I wrote, case closed.

Third, I know more about the history of the US than any person in another country ever will, and better than 90 percent of US citizens, and I have a rather unique perspective on it all, as my ancestors include the man who betrayed George Washington to the British, a US Marshal who arrested Gen George Custer for violating the treaty with the Lakota (only to see him released with all charges dropped by the government), and the Cherokee and Lakota warriors who killed and mutilated Custer at the Battle of the Little Big Horn. I am also descended from the real life Laura Ingalls-Wilder, author of the Little House on the Prarie books, and another of my ancestors, James Earle Fraser, is know for a sculpture called “The End of the Trail”.

Anyone, from any other country, who wants to argue with me about the history or government of the US is just plain old wrong, no exceptions, now I am done with this thread.

1039. Red Dead Ryan - January 22, 2013

K-7 is the name of the space station from one of the most popular episodes of all time (“The Trouble With Tribbles”). I don’t know how any Trek fan can be unaware of that fact.

1040. Red Dead Ryan - January 22, 2013

#1038.

Wow, that is some family history in your bloodlines!

1041. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 22, 2013

I’m sorry, MJ, your comment at #939 has really got up my nose, rattled my cage, as it were.

I have a half-sister who has never lived in a *big* city. She was brought in a small rural town called Masterton (not far from where Peter Jackson lives actually). She and her husband now live on a dairy farm close to an even smaller town. However, unfortunately, she has always managed to come across to me as more akin to having a “get a skewed overly liberal viewpoint and self-aggrandizing view of themselves”. Just swap the word “liberal” to “conservative”. She can also be resourceful and friendly, even genuinely good. However, the former description does seem to override the latter much of the time.

Another thing is that *big* city Auckland dwellers keep getting referred by people below the Bombay Hill as JAFA – Just Another F*cking Aucklander. As far as I can recall, no one coming from Auckland has ever referred to another New Zealander in such a disparaging manner. Some of the people living south of the Bombay Hill have never even bothered to come up as far as Auckland and often do see themselves as superior to people living in Auckland because they are hardworking farmers (which many are, but so are many city dwellers), don’t live on Welfare (when, in fact, in many rural NZ towns welfare dependence is quite high due to lack of employment), lead more natural, less harried lives and so on…Never mind that many rural folk leave for Auckland because that is where the work is, etc. Never mind that farmers have also been responsible for a lot of pollution of land and water, either through ignorance, carelessness, incompetence, but we daren’t mention these things. After all, Aucklanders are just JAFA.

MJ – I can also be “resourceful, friendly and a genuinely good person” at times as well. I can also be those other things, but I try not to be. Next time you are down my way, maybe you might like to meet a JAFA in her home turf – the little big city called Auckland.

1042. Basement Blogger - January 22, 2013

@ 1002

Thanks, Bob Orci for the link about Martin Luther King Jr.’s assassination. Interesting stuff. And again, the idea of an assassination conspiracy was covered in Star Trek film. See Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country.

1043. Basement Blogger - January 22, 2013

Aurore on Harry Ballz’s moniker,

“The flip side is that it might attract men parading as women…to flirt with you….Don’t judge me; I could be your type…” @ 1022; see @ 988

I am so confused. So are you saying that Harry Ballz is really a woman? That’s bush league. Next thing you know, you’re going to say that Harry Ballz is some guy named Michael Appleton. Or that I’m some hillbilly Chinese American with a name like Bernie who was named after an Irish American lawyer.

1044. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 22, 2013

#990 – Someone who writes this about other posters’ comments –

“but looking at the usual pile of orally spewed fecal matter coming from Son of Jello/whoever and Rose”

and then this, in the same post –

*”If you want to make fun of me for handling my responsibilities, then you can go straight to h-ll and I hope you burn for all eternity.”

No one has made fun of you at all. Why would anyone?

Clearly, you are desperately in need of a good rest, at the very least, in light of your comment just quoted above, which makes no rational sense and is out of control. When you have rested, then maybe you might be able to read my posts with a clearer head with a lot less anger. You have been the main instigator of the anger levelled against me. I may not know all that you know, but I know enough, and yes, other people impressions, including mine, that may always coincide with yours, do count for something.

I do not know why you decided to be pedantic when I described the USA as a democracy (which it is) as opposed to the more correct term (but rarely used) Representative Democracy. Were you trying to throw me off with your apparent superior knowledge? Let me refresh your memory –

“@628/639 And I am saying your impressions of the US are wrong, first, the US is by definition not a Democracy, it is a Republic, as defined by the US Constitution. Second, your impressions on Vietnam are wrong, and the protests were in full swing long before the news media started sending back the really shocking stuff. Third, the American media lies all the time, about damn near everything, and nothing in popular televised fiction can be taken as fact, NOTHING, not even the fitness of the average citizen, more people look like Peter Giffin than LL Cool J. Finally, I am now finished with this argument, and am moving on to something far more worthwhile.”

One very angry, intolerant and confusing post

Please – get yourself sorted, for your own sake as well as for your family.

1045. boborci - January 22, 2013

1032 Phil

Even more people take government press releases disguised as main stream media “new” as gospel truth. Iraq war, anyone?

I’ve read the book that article is based on. Truly meaningless and contributes nothing to the discussion of wether any given even is a conspiracy or not. Or in other words, all people who generalize are a-holes;)

1046. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 22, 2013

Edit – Darn it – typing too fast. Meant to write,
“…with a clearer head AND with a lot…”
“…including mine, that may NOT always coincide…”

1047. MJ - January 22, 2013

@1042. Rose, that is really interesting information, and a bit disturbing as well. If I ever make it to Aukland, yea, I’d like to look you up — sure!

1048. MJ - January 22, 2013

Bob, were their any assassinations of any leaders in history that weren’t conspiracies? Name one that wasn’t a conspiracy?

;-)

1049. boborci - January 22, 2013

I don’ think Julius Ceaser …. oh wait, scratch that. Killed by Senators.

Let me reverse the question on you — has there ever been a conpisracy or is every event in the history you’ve studied the result of random unconnected events and coincidences perpetrated by delusional loners totally unconnected to the flow of politics and power?

1050. Disinvited - January 22, 2013

#1048. M.J.

Character assassination (Pun Intended)

1051. Aurore - January 22, 2013

“I am so confused. So are you saying that Harry Ballz is really a woman?”
_____

Jesus, Bernie!

Do I have to type it in Chinese?!
…Forget what I just said ; you can’t read Chinese…

Anyhow, I am saying that my real name is David!

Get it?

:))

1052. Disinvited - January 22, 2013

#1051. Aurore

A canonista would reply “So McCoy is your son?”

1053. MJ - January 22, 2013

@1049. You have a point there, Bob. The closest I can come is John Hinkley Jr trying to impress Jodie Foster by shooting Reagan.

1054. Basement Blogger - January 22, 2013

@ 1051

Hey Aurore, aka David :-),

First, do not type in Chinese. This is an American website, none of that foreign stuff. Use the real American language. English.

Second, my online girlfriend, Lennay Kekua, told me that it’s a myth that people use the Internet to pretend to be someone that they are not.

1055. Manti Te'o - January 22, 2013

I love you, Basement Blogger!

1056. boboroci - January 22, 2013

1053 MJ

You picked another doozy.

Do you happen to know a few interesting things about John Hinckley?

Like the fact that the Bush family and the HInckley family were old friends in the oil business? That Hinckley Sr was a supporter of GHW Bush’s presidential bid in 1980?

Below is a mainstream media report about that connection.

http://www.hereinreality.com/hinckley.html

1057. MJ - January 22, 2013

@1056. That is bizarre! Still, I think it was clear that Hinkley was obviously mentally ill. But that is very interesting.

1058. boborci - January 22, 2013

1057. Being mentally ill is not mutually exclusive with “hanky panky” as Nixon would call it.

I am sure it is just a coincidence that the Bush family is friends with two families (Bin Ladens/Hinckleys) who both just happen to have a black sheep children who attack our country in a way that benefits the Bush family and their goals.

1059. MJ - January 22, 2013

@1058. Hmm, that is very odd. You actually have me thinking a bit your way on this one. Damn you, Orci! ;-)

1060. Harry Ballz - January 22, 2013

BOB ORCI

I’m really curious….nobody seems motivated to do a feature film concerning the JFK assassination. I would think there is plenty of material there for an exciting action-packed thriller.

Is it simply because the subject matter is still too “politically charged” to go near, or is there another factor?

1061. boborci - January 22, 2013

Mj

sorry. Appreciate your open mind and the debates.

1062. Harry Ballz - January 22, 2013

@1051 Aurore

David, eh?

Okay.

Smoke if you got ‘em!

1063. boborci - January 22, 2013

1060. I think it’s because it is nearly impossible to beat Oliver Stone’s version. And he was crucified by the mainstream media for it.

1064. MJ - January 22, 2013

Tom Hanks couldn’t even get backing for a standard version Kennedy assassination film. Hollywood must perceive the market is only the over-40 crowd???

1065. boborci - January 22, 2013

1064 MJ

I think that’s also true.

1066. Aurore - January 22, 2013

“….Second, my online girlfriend, Lennay Kekua, told me that it’s a myth that people use the Internet to pretend to be someone that they are not.”
__________

I see.

Your….”girlfriend”…….obviously never heard the story of the guy who posted as Jennifer Aniston, once….or twice.

Given the things “Jennifer” was saying …it’s probably for the best.

You would have been in TROUBLE otherwise with your hoax girlfriend…I meant to say… *HOT*… girlfriend…

:))

1067. Harry Ballz - January 22, 2013

1063.

Thanks, Bob.

Just one more thing…..if someone did a movie on JFK’s assassination, and DID point the finger of blame at specific real-life individuals within the government at that time, could the studio (producer, writer) be sued?

I’m being absolutely sincere, I honestly am not sure of the answer on that.

1068. boborci - January 22, 2013

technically, yes, but not likely and chances of winning slim.

1069. boborci - January 22, 2013

for example, Bush could sue me for calling him and his whole family the most murderous,mafia-like, war profiteering Nazi political dynasty that we’ve ever had to suffer through, but then we’d actually have to have it out in court where I could present evidence, and I don’t think they would enjoy that;)

1070. Harry Ballz - January 22, 2013

@1068

Thanks, Bob. I appreciate your answers.

1071. boborci - January 22, 2013

With the rare exception of somebody like Lance Armstrong, the guilty don’t usually want a hearing on accusations against them, they just want it quiet.

1072. Harry Ballz - January 22, 2013

@1069

OOOH, OOOH, gimmee a chance to smear LBJ to the wall! Just gimmee a chance!

1073. Basement Blogger - January 22, 2013

@ 1055

Hey Manti Te’o,

Sorry, I’m not gay. And by the way, you would be the perfect Cincinnati Bengal. You see our linebackers get fooled by the opposing quarterback, receivers and tight end all the time. The Bengals need a linebacker who is a great athlete and won’t get fooled. You won’t get duped by anybody. Um, er… … Okay, you had a little Internet problem. Ehhh. Nobody’s perfect. I can see you leading my favorite NFL team, the Cincinnat Bungles, I mean the Cincinnati Bengals to a Super Bowl victory.

1074. MJ - January 22, 2013

Harry, the risk you would likely have is if to provide the story and drama to your screenplay to nail LBJ, you manufactured scenes where LBJ is ordering the deeds to be done, and then people in those scenes who might be alive still, could sue you and make your prove that those scenes actually took place, which you wouldn’t be able to defend, since you had to use artistic licences to create those scenes.

1075. MJ - January 22, 2013

@1073. You do realize, as well, I hope, that RFK Jr. just recently came out and said his dad always thought the mob killed JFK. And he was the fracking attorney general, so I be HE KNEW!

1076. Harry Ballz - January 22, 2013

@1075

Oh, the mob was involved, but they didn’t organize the killing and coverup!

1077. MJ - January 22, 2013

Hmm? I think you guys get too stuck in the weeds sometimes with your JFK assassination hobby

1. RFK, who was the AG, said the mob was responsible.

2. RFK also basically said JFK would have got us entrenched in Vietnam.

3. Johnson did not run for reelection.

Occam’s Razor!

1078. boborci - January 22, 2013

Mj

1. Not true — first call was to CIA accusing the,

2. Not true, if you read closely, he said they did not want repeat of Korea (meaning combat troops on the ground) which is why advisors is all they wanted.

3. Johnson had already been what he always wanted to be.

1079. boborci - January 22, 2013

1. accusing THEM.

1080. boborci - January 22, 2013

Oh, and if Mob did it, why don’t you cite that as conspiracy when asked?

And if mob did it alone, why wouldn’t attorney general and LBJ go after them unless there is something to hide?

1081. MJ - January 22, 2013

1. “Rose asked if he believed his father, the U.S. attorney general at the time of his brother’s death, felt “some sense of guilt because he thought there might have been a link between his very aggressive efforts against organized crime.”
Kennedy replied: “I think that’s true. He talked about that. He publicly supported the Warren Commission report but privately he was dismissive of it.”

2. This speaks for itself what RFK thought:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/vietnam.htm
If you want to cherry-pick pieces of this and try to convince yourself that JFK would have pulled out of Vietnam from this, good luck. That is just not accurate — read the whole thing!

3. So LBJ risks everything to get to be be president, then wimps our because of some bad poll numbers or some health concerns that he had always had. Not buying it!

This is pretty cut and dry, guys.

1082. MJ - January 22, 2013

@1081. The new info from RFK Junior is finally the credible smoking gun I needed to buy into a conspiracy. Finally, some real info from JFK’s brother (passed to his son) versus more of the cottage industry conspiracy books.

1083. boborci - January 22, 2013

MJ: Let’s start with point 2

And I quote from your link:

Interviewer: . . . in an all out way as we went into Korea. We were trying to avoid a Korea, is that correct?

Kennedy:
Yes, because I, everybody including General MacArthur felt that land conflict between our troops, white troops and Asian, would only lead to, end in disaster. So it was. . . . We went in as advisers, but to try to get the Vietnamese to fight themselves, because we couldn’t win the war for them. They had to win the war for themselves.

————–

Trying to avoid troops. Which is why he ordered 1000 troops out befoore death. Which is consistent with what JFK said on TV — “In the final analysis, it’s their war and they’re the ones who are gonna have to win it.”

1084. boborci - January 22, 2013

As for point one — actually are your points, even if true, don’t rule out a conspiracy.

but back to one.

Everyone know mob was working with intellgence to kill Castro. So pinning it on the mob doesn’t rule out insiders in gov. On the contrary.

Jack Ruby was mob, right? gues who he worked for in late fifties? Anybody?

As for point 3. He wanted to be president his whole liife, with or without killing JFK. And he gave up what he always wanted, with or without killing JFK. So not sure whaat your logic amounts to.

1085. Phil - January 22, 2013

@1045. Of course it’s going to be meaningless, if ones default position that any event has sinister forces driving it. Using Iraq as an example, one could just as easily argue stupidity and incompetence, or even contempt (of Congress) as we could conspiracy for our involvement there. You could not argue motive from atop the ruins of the WTC, you can argue how we prosecuted the war on terror was rife with mistakes (I’ve had no issue with pursuing the Taliban in Afghanastan, Iraq was a mistake from day one. I’m also not saying we should not have pursued terrorists, but we should be a lot smarter about it then, and now, then just figuring endless drone strikes will solve more problems then it crates). Look, at a different level, I know a few people who have bought the Dinar….because they know people who supposedly have ‘insider knowledge’ of what is really going on, and because the gov’t is actively manuipliting the currency situation for unknown means. Conspiracy makes for great reading on 50 year old events, and wonderful drama for the movie going audience, but for investing, there is another word for it – scam. I’m willing to listen to lots of stuff, and I do find this interesting. You spoke of evidence in a trial – evidence is great, but if it’s circumstantial it had better rise to the level of ‘beyond a shadow of a doubt’, otherwise, it’s conjecture. You do a good job making it compelling, but it’s still conjecture.

1086. Basement Blogger - January 22, 2013

@ 996

“This is what I hate. Anthony goes AWOL for over a week, and some nutbar troll (in this case, Son of Jello) hijacks this thread with his arrogant, factually inaccurate tirades. And then Keachick proceeds to lecture everyone with her “holier-than-thou” preachy posts.” Red Dead Ryan.

Okay, let’s get back to the topic of the story above and discus why J.J. loves film over video.

Hey, here’s a husky puppy photobombing a black labrador retriever’s portrait. .

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/03/husky-photobomb-photo_n_2231139.html

1087. boborci - January 22, 2013

here is why it is meaningless. I see this tactic a lot from coincidence theorists:

Rather than arguing the evidence or the facts of a given event, they resort to rhetoric and unrpovable laws of nature like, “conspiracy theorists feel better believeing what they do” which I have never found to be true. Or “someone would’ve come forward” or “too many people would have to be involved.”

Again I don’t assume one thing over another, but I also don’t make arguments like, “people believe the news because it makes them feel better.”

As far as conjecture, willing to take on any bit of evidence you think proves something and then let’s see what is conjecture or not.

For example, watch first 3 minutes of this:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mDAiC8Bb75M&feature=relmfu

Summary: Cops found different rifle at book depository than reported in Warren report and different from the shell casings found on site. CBS news reported this for two days. In a court of law, a detective on scene testifying to this as Detective Craig did would be highly credible evidence. This alone proves a ccover up. now just deal with this one little nugget without resorting to theories about my psychology and then we can get somewhere.

1088. boborci - January 22, 2013

phil

One more analogy for why it is meaningless:

It does what you are erroneously accusing me of doing. Namely, reaching a conclusion ahead of time. This book assumes conspiracies don’t exist and then proceeds to explain, therefore, why some people believe the impossible.

Reminds me of the tale of Galileo being unable to get his critics to look through his telescope because they “knew” it’s properties were impossible.

1089. MJ - January 22, 2013

@1086. I will say this, Bob, you have opened my mind to more consideration of these types of conspiracies. I no longer think Oswald acted alone for instance, even though I don’t by Harry’s LBJ deal. So, thanks!

Say Bob, when can we expect an Ender’s Game trailer?

1090. Disinvited - January 22, 2013

#1054. Basement Blogger

And here I thought English was just another European immigrant tongue. Thanks for setting us straight that it was just another thing the invaders ripped-off of the Native Amerinds. ;-)

1091. Disinvited - January 22, 2013

LBJ, LBJ …having lived through his presidency I have the impression that he was far more ambitious than posters here give him credit. He knew where the real power was and how to wield it if given the opportunity. His presidential goal was merely a stepping stone on his goal to be the powerbroker who annointed the USA’s kings. At least it was, until he got the rug pulled out from under him.

1092. MJ - January 22, 2013

@1089. I agree completely, which is why if he really had the unbelievable level of hubris and power-greed to have JFK taken down, there is no way he would have wimped out on running for re-election.

The only exception I would offer here on motive, is that if he and some others high in the gov had legitimate concerns after the Cuban Missile Crisis that JFK was reckless and a risk taker (which I certainly think he was) and likely to get us into a nuclear war with the USSR, then, they might have felt it their civic duty to take JFK down or risk nuclear armegeddon for our nation. Under this scenario, I can more easily see him not running for a 2nd term — in fact, living with a decision like that and staying in power may have been too much for him to bear.

1093. boborci - January 22, 2013

MJ thank u again for open mind

Ender’s trailer in next couple months.

1094. Harry Ballz - January 22, 2013

Bob

any thoughts about Mac Wallace’s fingerprint being found in the “sniper’s nest” of the TSBD?

1095. boborci - January 22, 2013

1092. yeah. the obvious thoughts. JFK death result of massive conspiracy.

1096. Aurore - January 23, 2013

@1043. Bernard F. Wong
_________

Dear Bernie,

My post @1022, was, as you know, written in response to this one:

” I don’t post under other names. It *takes ballz* to use this one.” ( post 988 ).

Yes, my post was typed in jest ; I never posted as anyone but myself.
And, my real name IS Aurore.

Don’t be confused.

As far as I know, Aurore is a female name. It is, in my country, anyway.

(* Emphasis mine)

:)

1097. Aurore - January 23, 2013

1039. Red Dead Ryan – January 22, 2013
“K-7 is the name of the space station from one of the most popular episodes of all time (“The Trouble With Tribbles”). I don’t know how any Trek fan can be unaware of that fact.”
_______

Personally, at times, I forget stuff.

It happens.

It happened to you at least once, too.

Unless I’m mistaken, you are a supporter of the theory that Khan will be in the sequel. According to you Mr Cumberbatch will portray him.

I always assumed, perhaps wrongly, that you knew all there was to know about Khan, Space Seeds, The Wrath Of Khan etc…

And yet, on one thread where we were talking about Khan, you once seemed to have trouble remembering the fact that the phrase “I can see you but I can’t hear” could be a reference to the dialogue from Wrath Of Khan ; “Jim I can see you, but I can’t hear.”

Am I exaggerating with that ( authentic) example, here?

Probably.

My point though is that I, personally, don’t always remember details from series and movies I’ve loved for years and watched countless times.

Even when those films and series happen to be extremely popular.

Again, it happens.

1098. Basement Blogger - January 23, 2013

@ 1094

Hey Aurore,

Of course, I know you were joking. Though sometimes it’s hard to tell with other people, communicating by posting. And I was joking about having an online girlfriend named Lennay Kekua. You see she was the fake online girlfriend for Notre Dame football player Manti T’eo. And I mean REAL football not that socialistic sport the world plays which we call soccer. :-) I keeed the French.

And you never know. Harry Ballz could be a guy named Michael. Or he could be a woman whose real name is Furry Taco.

1099. Aurore - January 23, 2013

“….You see she was the fake online girlfriend etc etc….”
______

Oh, I know the story, Bernie.

Why do you think I referred to your ” **hoax** girlfriend” @t 1066 ?

1100. Phil - January 23, 2013

@1086. The incorrect CBS report, and speculation about the weapon was laid to rest years ago. This nugget has all the nutritional value of something you would find on the menu at McDonalds, and nothing more.

I do have an issue with the modern version of this conspiracy witch hunt, though. Gene Rosen, who’s act of kindness during the Newtown shooting, has become a target for conspiracy mongers. Why? Well, because these people have arrived at a incorrect conslusion that this tragedy is part of some wider plot to disarm America, people like Rosen must not be who they claim to be. Perhaps because the news did not report the correct weapons involved in the breaking hours of the story, are these theories being flung around? This is a problem because whatever good can come out of this in terms of more uniform oversight is quickly being swept away in conspiracy hysteria, and lobbists for the gun industry have seized on this to fire up their base as well. If there was ever a time for those who are conspiracy minded to present evidence of their charges, now is it. Otherwise, then need to shut the hell up before more damage is done.

1101. Red Dead Ryan - January 23, 2013

#1095.

Aurore,

Too true!

I forgot about that! :-)

1102. MJ - January 23, 2013

@1095. Yea, but I think you KNOW Trek and honestly forgot, where that nutjob Son of Jello really doesn’t KNOW much about Trek at all. That is my opinion.

1103. Phil - January 23, 2013

@1100. I’ve been a fan since the late 70′s, and got my head handed to me a while back for failing to recall that Rand made an appearance as a redhead in one of the movies. If someone is making a point about something, and it’s properly supported, failure to recall some point of trivia from forty plus years of broadcasting should not invaladate the persons opinion. you don’t need to know the secret handshake to post here – people have shown up before to mouth off, and ignoring them is usually sufficient to make them go away.

1104. MJ - January 23, 2013

@1101. Ignoring people is not one of my strong points. :-)

1105. boborci - January 23, 2013

1098

LAID TO REST?!?! what are you talking about?

wow. yes, it was laid to rest by being covered up when the rifle was magically turned into the right rifle by the commission lead by the man JfK fired.

so you think that the half dozen cops who looked at the rifle they found simply cant read, huh? when they read MAUSER stamped right on the barrel and the put it in their police report which CBS then reported, all five hallucinated the word, huh?

no wonder conapiracies are so easy to cover up. you can show a reasonable person FACTS and thd they bounce right off.

1106. boborci - January 23, 2013

And I don’t remember bringing up the school shooting, but I think the hyteria is clearly coming from those who want to ban guns. I have no evidence of a a conspiracy there, but I am open to it. You appear to have no curiosity about anamolies, like who was the second man chased and apprehended through the forest who said, “I didn’t do it?” Or the dill occuring at the exact time time as the shootings simulating exactly what happend at a nearby school. The drill was so similar, that CNN used footoage of it as though it were the Newton shooting.

1107. boborci - January 23, 2013

http://thedemoniacal.blogspot.com/2013/01/sandy-hook-cnn-aired-footage-of-drill.html?m=1

CNN fake footage, for your viewing pleasure.

1108. Basement Blogger - January 23, 2013

Okay, now that we’re into the conspiracy stuff, let’s talk about whether the government tries to use filmmakers to influence policy. Don’t worry Anthony, there’s a Star Trek comment here too. Last night, Stephen Colbert interviewed Zero Dark Thirty’s director Kathryn Bigelow. Link to extended interview. Here’s some points from the interview.

1. Bigelow abhors the use of torture.
2. Colbert asks whether she was used by her government sources to portray torture as effective means of getting information. Bigelow says the torture scenes were fair depictions.

Disturbing. Since we’re supposed to be against torture and the movie makes the point that it works. Bin Laden’s courier was derived from torture. I am assuming most Americans are against torture. I know I am against it.

I’m also curious if Academy members used those scenes against Bigelow since she was not nominated for Best Director. Her movie was nominated for Best Picture. Could be a silent conspiracy.

How does Star Trek feel about torture. One need only watch TNG’s Chain of Command, Parts One and Two. Picard is brutally tortured by a Cardassian. The show makes a point against the inhumanity of torture.

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/423121/january-22-2013/exclusive—kathryn-bigelow-extended-interview

1109. Nick Tierce - January 23, 2013

Is all this comments-section banter a hint that Rober April is part of a conspiracy to assassinate Pike? ;)

1110. MJ - January 23, 2013

@1106. Of course enhanced methods of interrogation — light torture — works. The movie get’s it right — it’s uncomfortable and dehumanizing to watch, but your sure glad those guys were wiling to get down and dirty with the 911 scumbags.

I know a retired Secret Service Agent — he specifically told me that there are some cases where only enhanced interrogation methods get results.

McCain and Feinstein and company know damn well that they work as well, but want to pretend that they don’t.

I am also fine that we have now moved away from light torture. It really isn’t good for our principles to be doing that. But nevertheless, our enemies are on alert that if you F with us too much, we can always go viral with you again if needed someday.

1111. MJ - January 23, 2013

@1105. Another reason why I don’t get my news from TV.

1112. dmduncan - January 23, 2013

Phil is the quintessential sleepwalking American. He’s sees no evil, he hears no evil. Now if he puts his hands over his mouth, he’ll be three kinds of monkey all in one.

Got no idea if there’s conspiracy, but there clearly is a lot of hate for the 2nd Amendment on the part of a whole lot of people who just as clearly do not understand it (guns ain’t for HUNTING — they’re for RESISTING) and who have NO freaking idea what they are talking about on anything weapons related. As soon as someone starts talking about “magazine capacity” and “assault weapons,” I know here’s someone who is repeating what they hear from within a kind of semi-conscious fog, and whom I need to talk to very slowly while making constant eye contact to make sure my words are being understood.

Barack Obama has far more child blood on his hands than both James Holmes and that Lanza guy combined, being as that he’s the one with the drone policy we have, and I’ll bet killing children is totally okay with most of those blathering on about how bad “assault weapons” are, so long as the media they consume doesn’t do heartbreaking reports on the tragedy of it all.

But I understand. If everyday all your sources of media battered you with a quarter million annual Chinese suicides by hanging, and calling on you to do so SOMEthing, you’d be in an uproar against rope.

But you wouldn’t want to ban all rope. Just assault rope.

1113. dmduncan - January 23, 2013

Torture is a handshake with the devil, and that handshake changes the nation that supports it.

1114. Basement Blogger - January 23, 2013

@ 1110

Dmduncan says,

“As soon as someone starts talking about “magazine capacity” and “assault weapons,” I know here’s someone who is repeating what they hear from within a kind of semi-conscious fog, and whom I need to talk to very slowly while making constant eye contact to make sure my words are being understood..”

I’m sorry Dmduncan but your post is patronizing and is an ad hominem attack on Phil. You can disagree with him but his points on gun control are no less intelligent than yours. Phil, Harry, AJ and myself had civil discussions on gun control. I favor allowing teachers to carry arms and also assault weapons ban. But to imply that people who favor assault weapons bans are not up to your intellect indicates to us that you consider them idiots. There are many, and I mean many intelligent Americans who favor some sort of gun control. Check the polling data. They are not idiots. Sorry, Dmduncan,, can’t agree with you on your anger.

And by the way by your use of capitals, we get your anger. If it upsets you so much, I suggest you ignore Phil’s posts. They’er opinion just like yours. You would be much happier if you avoided reading Phil’s opinions.

1115. Basement Blogger - January 23, 2013

@ 1111

Dmduncan, I do agree with your point on torture. We can’t claim the moral high ground when we torture. Can’t expect other nations not to torture our people when we do it.

1116. Phil - January 23, 2013

@1103. The rifle was always the Carcano M91/38, and the ballistics match. The officers, when questioned further, admitted they mis-identified the rifle, acknowledging that the firearms were similar enough that there could have been some confusion. Further, when the rifle was removed from the scene, it was filmed. Frames from that film identify it as the Carcano. Unless we are debating that LHO did not pull the trigger, all we have here is a screw up on the part of the cops.

1117. Red Dead Ryan - January 23, 2013

Canada, the United States and Britain have all outsourced torture to other countries. It’s the only way they can circumvent their laws/constitutions.

Canada sent Omar Khadr (a suspected al-Queda terrorist) to Syria a few years ago to be “interrogated” by the ruling Ba’ath Party. Turns out the “interrogation” involved torture and sexual abuse/humiliation. This has happened to dozens of other suspects as well.

Not only have several western countries been involved in torture, they have also aided and abetted the Syrian regime. The very same dictatorship that is torturing and slaughtering their own people.

1118. Phil - January 23, 2013

@1110. You jump to a really wild eyed conclusion here, buddy. Not entirely sure how asking for some proof that things are not what they seem to be is all that unreasonable. If it makes you feel any better, when I hear someone going on about resisting tyrrany or good guy/bad guy they are just puking up the gun lobby talking points. Even though the history of the 2nd Amendment is a very interesting snapshot on life in early America and the defense of it, it’s irrelevent because case law holds that the right to bear arms exists regardless of ones relationship to a militia, or it’s modern equivilant. Likewise, the courts continue to hold that regulation is a proper role for government. Asides from the hysteria and fearmongering that the gun lobbists are trying to whip up, the questiosn being debated that has the best chance of resolving the issue is how have existing laws failed, how can truely responsible ownership be implemented, and how best to go about ensuring that people who should not have firearms can’t get them. All legitimate topics of discussion in society – if the Alex Crosses of the world want to insist otherwise, and that it’s all just some insidieous plot, prove it, and I’ll stand with you. I’m not going to take your word for it, just because you have the gun.

1119. dmduncan - January 23, 2013

1116: “Not entirely sure how asking for some proof that things are not what they seem to be is all that unreasonable.”

Well that’s actually your job, asking for proof that things ARE what they seem to be, not just assuming that they are that way and then repeating that view.

1120. Boborci - January 23, 2013

1114. Detective Roger Craig never changed his story and if course he is the only one who died suspiciously. And again, the rifle said “Mauser” right on the barrel. So what is reasonable? Police admitting they cant’t read? Or the pressure of a coverup?

And I reiterate what DMDuncan just said.

By the way, I totally understand the denial you are suffering from. The reality sucks.

1121. Phil - January 23, 2013

@1117. You are the one who wears your Don Quixote status like a badge of honor, so when you ask me to be open to the idea that the sky is green, when I can clearly see that it’s blue, the burden of proof falls on you. Evidence can be as simple as a shared observation – the sky is blue, but because you saw a band of green on a rainbow once that does not invalidate my observation, nor does it justify insisting the sky is green. So, if you want to impose your green reality over mine, under the blue sky, I’d expect some sort of explaination other then taking your word for it.

1122. dmduncan - January 23, 2013

1112. Basement Blogger – January 23, 2013

Guilty as charged, and I’m not backing down from anything I said either, though you are quite mistaken in your assumption of my “anger.” Don’t project too much into the meaning of caps. As long as people who know nothing about guns presume to lecture ME about them, then I will give them the same experience by talking down to them as the same sort of idiot they seem to think I am.

I’ll give back to them what they give to me. And there is no equivalence to our positions. Screw polls. Polls don’t give you facts except the fact of how many people believe the media driven nonsense. From the standpoint of being able to kill a large number of defenseless people in a confined space — like a schoolroom — a pistol and enough clips are just as deadly as what the hysterical media driven folks call “assault weapons.” And magazine capacity? Balderdash. Takes a second to switch one out, as anyone who has handled semi-auto pistols would know. (Anyone in the future who wants to commit a massacre without an assault weapon will have no trouble doing so WITH those proposed magazine limitations in place — and those restrictions don’t even matter, because if hi-cap mags get outlawed, people will PRINT them at home on 3D printers. Sorry. The future is coming.)

How many “assault weapons” did the Dunblane shooter have? And what was the legal response and policy in the UK following that tragedy? Don’t even BOTHER trying to tell me it can’t happen here. Some guy kills 20 kids with pistols HERE and the next wave of hysteria will be over pistols. It’s just so easy to predict.

Guns are low hanging fruit for lazy people to pick who want to solve nothing. The same sort who support Obama no matter how many kids he uses his drones to kill without uttering a PEEP in criticism, and who lavish praise on him as if those dead children aren’t there. Last time I checked, I think the count was 165 dead kids. How many Newtowns does it take to equal that? How many nightly news reports do we hear about gun control while drone control is a complete non issue?

So pardon my disgust. That’s my natural response to hypocrisy.

1123. dmduncan - January 23, 2013

1119. Phil – January 23, 2013

@1117. You are the one who wears your Don Quixote status like a badge of honor, so when you ask me to be open to the idea that the sky is green, when I can clearly see that it’s blue, the burden of proof falls on you.

***

You believe they dumped OBL’s body overboard, don’t you?

1124. dmduncan - January 23, 2013

1119

I mean, unless I got you mixed up with another Phil, you’re the “Phil” who supports the official narrative on everything. 9/11, death of OBL, JFK. Right? You’re THAT guy, correct?

1125. Harry Ballz - January 23, 2013

dmduncan

I’ve been reading your posts for years, my friend.

You are always brilliantly consistent with your logic and matter-of-fact common sense.

I’m not disagreeing with your last few posts, but your tone has taken a rather dramatic turn and it begs the question….

…is everything okay these days or are you under more stress than usual?

And, no, I’m not being facetious, I’m being completely sincere. Everything okay?

1126. dmduncan - January 23, 2013

doh! Sorry for doubling. First it was there, then it disappeared!

1127. Basement Blogger - January 23, 2013

@ 1120

Okay, I guess in your eyes I’m an idiot. Quit laughing Jack. :-) But don’t lump all supporters of Obama in the same boat. I am disturbed about the drone program which by the way was started by Bush. And not all liberals are with Obama on the use of drones. See Michael Moore.

The problem with the drone assassination program is highlighted by the killing of Anwar al-Aulaqi. The big deal? He was an American citizen. Link. And yes, he was a terrorist. But as an American citizen, the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendment protects him. That means the government cannot take his life without due process of the law. But the government killed him without a trial This bothers me. If I were President, I would not have targeted him because he is and now was an American citizen. We must follow the rule of law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Aulaqi

1128. Basement Blogger - January 23, 2013

@ 1122

Dmduncan, I’m not big into conspiracies and can’t agree with all conspiracy theories. Not into the 9/11 conspiracies, thought the movie Loose Change was bad science. Bin Laden is dead. Remember that Al Qaeda acknowledged his death. On JFK, I am suspicious. Not an expert on it. But the Zapruder film, the convenient killing of Oswald and other facts. You know how I feel about UFOs. That’s one I do believe in. There is a conspiracy to keep UFOs secret. That bring us to…

1129. boborci - January 23, 2013

1110 dm
Nice.

1130. dmduncan - January 23, 2013

1127 boborci

;-)

1125: No, I DON’T think you are an idiot, but I’m not one either, you understand? Maybe I shouldn’t have spent so much time on Twitter the other night posting counterexamples that were so clearly against the current of what people think…all of them thinking exactly alike…and when I see that and it’s all exactly what the media is saying, then I know I’m in the midst of a mob mentality.

1126: Well, the point is, if you accept that OBL got dumped over the side, you weren’t there on that ship and you don’t know what got dumped over the side. You don’t KNOW what you saw because you weren’t there — you BELIEVE what you were told about what it was that got dumped. So when people like Phil say they just believe what they see — no, you guys are seeing very little and assuming a whole lot, and then becomes fact to you.

I saw the same reports you did, but I didn’t automatically believe what I was told to interpret about those images.

The burden of proof falls on every individual for the quality of information they believe. It is no more my job to convince Phil that he believes a confabulation any more than it’s my job to move into his house and make sure he eats healthy food. Still, I do what I can to stimulate thinking, to get people to QUESTION what they THINK they know.

1131. MJ - January 23, 2013

@1110 “Barack Obama has far more child blood on his hands than both James Holmes and that Lanza guy combined, being as that he’s the one with the drone policy we have, and I’ll bet killing children is totally okay with most of those blathering on about how bad “assault weapons” are, so long as the media they consume doesn’t do heartbreaking reports on the tragedy of it all.”

DM, you would like the main antagonist in Homeland — he’s basically trying to bring down the U.S. govt because drone strikes killed his only friend, an Arab kid, when he was kept prisoner in Pakistan.

1132. Basement Blogger - January 23, 2013

I believe the U.S. government has evidence of extraterrestrial life and considers it above top secret. I’m not alone, some military also believe this. Link. There’s a reason for the secrecy. If the U.S. has UFO evidence like ships, it’s the biggest secret since the A bomb. Think of advanced technology. And of course there’s the societal concerns. I believe the government is afraid of panic and the breakdown of society if people were told aliens exist. I don’t agree with that assessment though I might take more days off.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/24/ufo-secrets-turn-out-to-be-strong-opinions_n_1907492.html?utm_hp_ref=ufo

1133. MJ - January 23, 2013

BTW guys, two wrongs don’t make a right. Assault rifle technology with huge magazines is approaching “personal WMD” territory.

Forget all of your debate on this. I know WRONG when I see it, and it is immune to anything that is said here by anyone.

1134. boborci - January 23, 2013

1128. DM

while you’re on the subject, even if you were on the ship that allegedly dumped Bin Laden into the ocean (which hilariously enough, Dave Chappell points out it is exactly what we did to Megatron in Transformers!

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=Fhtr770DqXE&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DFhtr770DqXE you still didn’t see what happened!

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2012/11/22/osama_bin_laden_burial_followed_islamic_procedures_few_watched.html

1135. Basement Blogger - January 23, 2013

My original question was whether the government manipulates or uses Hollywood to promote an agenda. Did the CIA give director Kathryn Bigelow information on torture so she would portray it as effective?

There was this idea in UFOlogy where the government worked with Hollywood to prepare the public for the existence of extraterrestrials. See Close Encounters of the Third Kind. E.T., Paul? :-)

But there is a real life example of the CIA working with Hollywood and it has a Star Trek connection. See the movie Argo. The CIA gets its Hollywood connections to set up a fake production company to get hostages out of Iran. The Star Trek connection is that the main Hollywood connection is real life make up man John Chambers. His Trek history? He created Spock’s ears.

John Chambers, real life hero of Argo and creator of Spock’s ears.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Chambers_(make-up_artist)

1136. dmduncan - January 23, 2013

1127: And BTW, I don’t lump all BO supporters together, but just look at the dialogue. It’s all about gun control.

When was the last time there was a “conversation” about drone murders of Pakistani or Arab children? It’s not even on the radar. The media isn’t discussing it. People are talking about gun control because that is the item the media is pushing even though, if anyone wants to look at the numbers, Barack Obama is responsible for the equivalent of 8 or 9 Newtowns around the world in the name of keeping us “safe.” He’s far worse with drones than Bush ever was. Fact. You can’t get away with blaming Bush anymore.

1131. “Assault rifle technology with huge magazines is approaching “personal WMD” territory.”

Pure hyperbole. A 30 rd mag is a WMD? LOL.

“Forget all of your debate on this. I know WRONG when I see it, and it is immune to anything that is said here by anyone.”

I don’t think you do know wrong when you see it. So far you’ve defended torture — something even Colin Powell has the good sense not to do. You just used hyperbole to describe an assault rifle as almost being a WMD. And now you are likening me to what? A terrorist? Because I oppose what any man of conscience ought to oppose?

Wow.

1137. dmduncan - January 23, 2013

1134. boborci – January 23, 2013

That was hilarious. Love Chappelle.

And good point. Release some images which contain almost no information, promote a narrative to go along with the sketchy images, and people BELIEVE it. They just take it on faith.

1138. dmduncan - January 23, 2013

Ditching OBL like Megatron still cracking me up.

1139. boborci - January 24, 2013

1136. Dm

Me, too. So smart the way he uses humor. Gotta learn more from him.

1140. MJ - January 24, 2013

@1134 “Pure hyperbole. A 30 rd mag is a WMD? LOL.”

Well, when you tear up my actual quote and pull out the work “Personal” in front of WMD to thereby prove your point, then I guess you get to use your “LOL”

And you seem to be getting all nasty tonight with people — I NEVER intended to compare you with the guy in Homeland, I just thought you might find his character interesting, If you watched the show like I do, you can feel for the guy and see why he does what he is doing. Again, I did not intend in any way to insult you.

Regarding enhances methods, I say what I mean, even though it may not be popular. A lot of people (NOT YOU!) who were fine with it 8 years ago are all of a sudden against it now. I have not willy-nilly changed positions over time.

1141. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 24, 2013

#1134 – “When was the last time there was a “conversation” about drone murders of Pakistani or Arab children? It’s not even on the radar.”

Perhaps this might be a reason – those children are NOT American citizens so there is no need to follow the rule of law. Therefore they are not protected.

#1125 – “The problem with the drone assassination program is highlighted by the killing of Anwar al-Aulaqi. The big deal? He was an American citizen. Link. And yes, he was a terrorist. But as an American citizen, the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendment protects him. That means the government cannot take his life without due process of the law.”

Before any of you pass judgement on me and accuse me of being “holier-than-thou”, “preachy” or “anti-American” – I am NOT the one telling the story here. YOU ARE!

1142. MJ - January 24, 2013

Sheesh, cry me a fracking river, people.

1143. dmduncan - January 24, 2013

1138

Relax, MJ, I didn’t take it as an insult. I don’t watch the show so I don’t know the details. But you described him as an antagonist, and “terrorist” IS how it sounded. In addition, that KIND of labeling in the future — whether it applies or not — is exactly how the NDAA could be used to target American citizens for disappearance. Uh, detention. A terrorist is whoever they say one is. As long as they portray it as for the good of the nation they can stomp on anyone, even in America. So when I hear that kind of talk, it concerns me.

As for the magazine comment, I don’t know how else to interpret it. Even a 100 round drum doesn’t turn a semiauto AR15 into anything approaching a WMD.

Finally, to clarify, when I said people would start printing their own magazines and eventually even their own guns, I wasn’t concocting a deranged fantasy to throw at the Make a Wish foundation.

It’s already happening, folks.

http://defensedistributed.com/

The internet and the free flow of information is a threat to establishment control freaks, which is why they keep trying to pass crap like PIPA and SOPA to disguise their plan to control information.

1144. dmduncan - January 24, 2013

1139. boborci – January 24, 2013

Yes! When he ran off to Africa the media tried to make him look like a crazy Muslim convert who didn’t appreciate the gifts America had given him.

But he’s got a powerful weapon against the media. He can make people laugh at it!

1145. Aurore - January 24, 2013

“Finally, to clarify, when I said people would start printing their own magazines and eventually even their own guns, I wasn’t concocting a deranged fantasy to throw at the Make a Wish foundation.

It’s already happening, folks.”
_______

Thank you for clarifying with the link.

1146. Hugh Hoyland - January 24, 2013

I think many people in America have a crashing misunderstood definition on what the Second Amendment actually means and WHY it was placed so high on the list of natural rights (not government issued rights, but rather rights that can never be “taken away” by men or government).

You will hear those who wish to obfuscate the issue or dont understand its meaning use the argument that the Founders wanted the people to have rifles to hunt game, or small arms to protect their homes from burglers and so forth. Most who use this argument will then say “That was LONG AGO, you dont need guns to hunt now, see, theres plenty of food at the grocery store” or “you dont need guns to protect your home, see, theres plenty of police everywhere to do that for you.

And yet there are others that will exploit tragedies like the recent shooting at the elementary school in an attempt to destroy the second amendment and demonize law abiding citizens who own guns. I ask anyone to read FBI statistics on violent crime and see the data on how RARE these incidents actually are. And how violent crime has dropped dramatically over the past 17 years in this nation. And the difference of amounts of crimes in “Gun Free Zones” (see Chicago) and areas that have liberal gun laws (see Fl and TX).

Those arguments I mentioned above, and used mostly by the media and certain people in government, are false data and are intended to confuse the issue and mislead the public knowingly or unknowlingly.

The primary reason the Second Amendment was given such high status and importance in the US Constitution was to insure that the citizens are well armed and able to defend themselves AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT…PERIOD. Especially if the government begins to act tyranically against it citizens or becomes corrupted by some outside source.

This latest attempt by the government is just one of many over the decades to disarm the people. Mind you that while the government disarms the people, it continues to arm itself to the teeth (just recently the NSA purchased 1.7 billion, yes thats B for billion rounds of amunition for “domestic use”. And thats just one agency. There are many more.

Here are some quotes from the Founding Fathers on the Second Amendment and its purpose.

“I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.”
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia’s Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

“Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that’s good.”
George Washington
First President of the United States

“The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them.”
Thomas Paine

“To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.”
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788

“Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not.”
Thomas Jefferson
Third President of the United States

1147. dmduncan - January 24, 2013

You are welcome, Aurore. It occurred to me I might sound crazy to some people because they don’t know that the things I reference are already happening.

I’m a fan of home based 3D printing/CNC machining technology, so I’ve been following its development. It has the potential to change the world more radically than the printing press.

1148. Basement Blogger - January 24, 2013

@ 1139

Keachick aka Rose,

Responding to you is probably a bad idea since you are on a different wavelength than the rest of us. What happens is that we go round and round with you eventually telling me to 1) shut up … or 2) call me an a*ss.

But here we go. First, as an American, I find it disturbing that innocents are killed when we use drones. This is war and there will be collateral casualties. But even war requires some law respecting human rights. I’m not going to get into the Geneva convention or other treaties. That’s not my area and frankly I’m not going to research it to write a dissertation for this website.

Second, my point was about the United States government using a drone to execute one of its own citizens. Here’s what I’m talking about. American constitutional rights apply to American citizens. They also apply to foreigners on American soil. Anwar al-Aulaqi was an American citizen. So before any American citizen can have his life taken by any American government, he must be given due process of the law which usually means he must be tried in a court of law. .

I am not implying that the United States can kill foreigners without legal or moral consequences. And again realize, a foreigner on American soil would have American constitutional rights. A foreigner charged with a crime say in Ohio would have the same constitutional rights as a citizen. Obviously, a foreigner on foreign soil could not claim American constitutional rights since there’s not jurisdiction.

I hope this clarifies my point.

1149. dmduncan - January 24, 2013

You can’t outsource your defense to a government you may have to defend yourself against. Sad, but true. Ultimately that is why we have a Second Amendment.

Rules of the game haven’t changed since 1776. In fact, as America has grown in power and wealth, it has become more of a jewel for unscrupulous people to steal. So we still have power-mad people still trying to abuse people’s rights using government to do it. The NDAA is recent proof of that. The Free Speech Zone is another example. The abusive hounding of Aaron Swartz is another example. Whistleblowers being charged under the Espionage Act of 1917 is another example. The POTUS giving himself a kill list and executing American citizens without due process of law is another example.

Which makes me wonder about the future. How many “pandemics” away are we from a government law declaring it illegal and punishable by fine or imprisonment if you do not vaccinate yourself against whatever the government tells you you must be vaccinated for? Just as if citizens are soldiers in the army.

How many consecutive nights of media coverage will it take to make forced vaccinations the next Iraq or the next gun control bill? Because after 9/11 and Newtown, I am convinced there is nothing Americans cannot be sold by the government and the media working hand in hand, no matter how inherently offensive it is.

This, in turn, causes me to reflect on the difference between a democracy and a republic.

A democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what’s for dinner.

A republic is two wolves and a sheep voting from an all-wolf candidate pool, one of whom then decides what’s for dinner.

Or, to make the comparison even better: A republic is 10 sheep and 1 wolf voting from a candidate pool of 10 sheep and 1 wolf.

But one wolf owns the electronic voting machine, and the other programs the software.

1150. dmduncan - January 24, 2013

And of course, lest anyone misunderstand, by “government” I DO mean a corporate government, which remains that no matter who gets in power. There is no longer enough separating government and industry to warrant a genuine distinction. There’s too much corporate welfare for that, and too many of revolving doors.

1151. Aurore - January 24, 2013

“It occurred to me I might sound crazy to some people because they don’t know that the things I reference are already happening.”
_____

I had strictly no idea what you were talking about.

However, knowing that you never make random statements when participating in very serious discussions, I just kept on reading…

…Until your clarification.

Thanks again.

“I’m a fan of home based 3D printing/CNC machining technology, so I’ve been following its development. It has the potential to change the world more radically than the printing press.”

Yes.
I find that potential scary, to tell you the truth.

1152. MJ - January 24, 2013

@141, Oh year, I am aware of the 3D printer subgroups that are doing this — good point!

By “personal WMD” I meant that even with an semi-automatic rifle, with these huge magazines, it is much easier to kill 20+ people than it used to be. The Norway gunman last year was an even better example of this. Maybe “neighborhood-level WMD” is a better term.

1153. dmduncan - January 24, 2013

1149: “Yes. I find that potential scary, to tell you the truth.”

It can be. It can also be liberating. Either way, I think we have some growing up to do.

1154. Phil - January 24, 2013

Hmmm…news is reporting that JJ is directing the next Star Wars. True, or false?

1155. Aurore - January 24, 2013

“Hmmm…news is reporting that JJ is directing the next Star Wars. True, or false?”
_________

“’It’s done deal with J.J.,’ a source with knowledge of the situation told Deadline today.”

http://www.deadline.com/2013/01/j-j-abrams-to-direct-new-star-wars-movie-for-disney/

1156. MJ - January 24, 2013

If that is true, what an F’n traitor. I am EXTREMELY disappointed.

1157. Red Dead Ryan - January 24, 2013

I think the whole “Star Wars” acquisition by Disney forced the hand of Paramount to release the sequel info the past couple of months.

Now Abrams is going to direct the next SW movie. I’m going to bet that Paramount won’t give as much free reign to the supreme court in terms of deadlines for the third Trek movie.

If Bob and co. decide they need another four years, then Paramount will just find another group of writers.

There is no way Paramount is going to let Disney scoop up its new found audience.

I predict the third Trek movie will be out in 2016, at the latest.

1158. MJ - January 24, 2013

I know Anthony is on his two-month long winter break, but even he is going to have to come down from his winter chalet in the Alps to put in a story on this.

1159. Aurore - January 24, 2013

“If that is true, what an F’n traitor. I am EXTREMELY disappointed.”
________

If that is true, the people who “convinced” him to direct were desperate.

He wasn’t.

He had no other choice but to accept.

And, he’ll say that he was made an offer he could not refuse, something that will sound good in order to explain why he had previously refused to direct the next Star Wars.

That is (part of) my conspiracy theory on the subject.

:)

I wish him good luck, though.
As I said elsewhere, I never cared for the Star Wars franchise, but, this might change, thanks to him.

(If this is true.)

1160. MJ - January 24, 2013

@1157. Oh, yea, he’ll do a great job and I’ll see his SW movie(s) and probably like it/them a lot more than the prequel movies, but YOU DON’T CROSSOVER BETWEEN TREK AND SW…it is not right. It’ like Alabama and Auburn, Lions and Hyenas, Chist and Antichrist, Matter and Antimatter.

This is WRONG !!!!!

1161. Aurore - January 24, 2013

I hope he’ ll be O.K.

Hollywood seems to be a very “demanding” place…

1162. Basement Blogger - January 24, 2013

Oh no. Here’s another conspiracy. Did Beyonce lip synch the national anthem at the Inaugural? Stephen Colbert covers the story. Funny stuff.

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/423161/january-23-2013/beyonce-s-lip-gate

1163. Phil - January 24, 2013

@1160. It’s only a conspiracy if she was singing in code, sending messages to North Korea, and at a pitch that was rendering all gunpowder in civilian weapons inert, allowing the Fiji Army, on a secret base in Mexico, to launch their attack next week…..

1164. dmduncan - January 24, 2013

1157: “(If this is true.)”

Oh it’s true. People are asking and Bob is confirming in the Twitterverse.

1165. K-7 - January 24, 2013

Sounds like Bob is the guy who probably is the unnamed source who broke this story then.

1166. Aurore - January 24, 2013

“Oh it’s true. People are asking and Bob is confirming in the Twitterverse.”
______

Yeah.

A poster mentioned the post by Mr. Orci, on the other ( new ) thread, a few hours ago. I saw it.

My comment was written several minutes before the “The Force Is With JJ ? etc…” thread was up.

:)

1167. Aurore - January 24, 2013

Correction. 1157.

the post by = the message on Twitter by….

( the message referred to was ” @boborci… about this subject on twitter:
‘creo que si!’… ‘True!’”….and so, I was waiting for an update wich never came. It was late. I went to bed. Still no update as I’m typing this now, but, I just noticed at least one message by Mr. Orci on the new thread . Therefore, I’m off to read what happened as I was sleeping…..)

:)

1168. Aurore - January 24, 2013

“…Hollywood seems to be a very ‘demanding’ place…”
_______

Dave Chapelle talks/talked about that, too.

Everytime I heard him doing so, he seemed to be particularly serious, though.

1169. Aurore - January 24, 2013

@1166
Et c’est “Chappelle” avec deux “p” !

1170. dmduncan - January 25, 2013

Aah! Be still my heart! Camille de Passiz (Last Resort) tweeted me a “Thanks!!” while I was reading this thread!

1171. Aurore - January 25, 2013

“Aah! Be still my heart! Camille de Passiz (Last Resort) tweeted me a ‘Thanks!!’ while I was reading this thread!”
_____

Congratulations!

:)

1172. Son of Jello - January 26, 2013

I cant believe your all still here. Today is Australia day which means I get Monday off. Good news if its true about Star Wars and JJ Abrams

1173. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 26, 2013

The last Monday of each January is Auckland Anniversary Day which means that people living in Auckland always get that Monday off… Waitangi Day (sometimes called NZ Day) is February 6th – always a national public holiday. This happens on Wednesday this year. Don’t you love these public holidays? Cool Ha!

1174. Lt. Atkins - January 29, 2013

flash player is a curse on mankind!

1175. MJR - January 31, 2013

Some believe that the new film is a lead up into the KHAN story. I hope not, I have said before, you cannot improve on that story. Montalbon is Khan, end of discussion. However like everyone else, I have thought about it , Now if they are going to do it, who would be Khan? There is only one choice in my humble opinion, to play Khan if they do what Hollywood does, and that is to re-make, or re-boot a story. Dwayne “the ROCK” Johnson is the only choice to play Khan. Hell all they have to do is put him in the hair and makeup from the Scorpion King, and you have Khan.

One other thing I would like to touch on…Paramount studios and Gene Roddenberry have always said that the characters are not the stars of Star Trek…THE ENTERPRISE is the star, she needs more screentime, alot more. And please refit her a little bit. Get rid of the warp nacelles on steroids, and separate the nacelles a bit more. And please build an engineering set for god’s sake, enough of the budweiser brewery, GEEEEZ. Come to think of it, you can lose the light flares in the camera lense too. That was just totally annoying. Make the corridors more practical, instead of borrowing the look of the blockade runner corridors from Star Wars. Wow guess I had more to complain about than I thought.

1176. Watch Super Bowl 2013 Online Free - February 3, 2013

This site was… how do you say it? Relevant!
! Finally I’ve found something which helped me. Appreciate it!

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