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TrekInk: Review of Countdown to Darkness #1 January 22, 2013

by Mark Martinez , Filed under: Comics,Review,Star Trek Into Darkness , trackback

uhura In the months since their encounter with Nero, Captain James T. Kirk and the crew of the Enterprise have been exploring strange new worlds, new civilizations, and now, they must face a grave new threat to the security of the Federation. IDW Publishing releases Star Trek: Countdown to Darkness #1 this week, the first chapter of a four-issue prequel to Star Trek Into Darkness. Comic spoilers ahead. Will there be movie spoilers too? One more time. Spoilers.

Star Trek: Countdown to Darkness #1 (of 4)
Story by Roberto Orci and Mike Johnson, script by Mike Johnson, art by David Messina, ink assist by Marina Castelvetro, coloring by Claudia Scarletgothica, letters by Chris Mowry, creative consultant Anthony Pascale, edited by Scott Dunbier

Story

Months after the loss of Vulcan and his mother, Spock is still having difficulty. His grief keeps him awake and pushes Uhura away. Kirk is awake too, talking to the computer because he lacks companionship. Both arrive on the bridge ahead of schedule for a routine mission, scanning a pre-industrial society on Phaedus. A high frequency energy field from the planet’s surface disrupts communications and the transporter. Kirk, Spock, Sulu and Hendorff take a shuttle to investigate and are attacked with energy weapons. Sulu is seriously injured when the shuttle goes down. Armed with weapons they shouldn’t have and an older model Starfleet tricorder, the natives of Phaedus demand identification. Kirk, in turn, demands to know where they got their weapons. Robert April, a former captain of the Enterprise answers.

prime

Flouting the prime directive and lens flares. Some things never change!

Review

I have to tip my hat to Roberto Orci and Mike Johnson. They effortlessly pick up threads woven in the first film and the ongoing comic series, then smack us upside the head with an unexpected character. Pairing up this surprising introduction with David Messina’s amazing sharp-edged inks makes the comic a treat. Messina always works with very capable colleagues. Marina Castelvetro and Claudia Scarletgothica are no exception. Chris Mowry handles the lettering for a lot of dialogue very capably. Kudos to everyone involved. Do I have any quibbles? Well, one, but it’s minor. There’s a whole lot of lens flare going on here. It doesn’t distract from the impact of the art. I guess it’s just become part of the nuTrek equation. There isn’t enough information in this comic to predict where the story is going or how it ties in to Star Trek Into Darkness. Nevertheless, with a former captain of the Enterprise as a potential adversary, I’d say we’re living in interesting times.

It shouldn’t be difficult to find a copy of Countdown to Darkness #1, but it might be difficult to pick the one you want. As is IDW’s custom, we get a plethora of covers with this first issue. David Messina’s portrait of Kirk is the principal cover. Kirk will fit together with covers from the next three issues featuring Uhura, Spock and a Klingon, in the same style as posters for the first J.J. Abrams Star Trek film and Star Trek: Countdown, the first movie prequel from IDW Publishing. The B cover is a reproduction of a poster for Star Trek Into Darkness featuring John Harrison with his backside flapping in the winds of destruction. The retailer incentive cover is a variant of Messina’s art cover which has been graded and slabbed by CGC. There will only be 100 copies available. Retailers who want one of these scarce comics must order 250 copies of the regular issue to qualify for one CGC-graded variant. There are also two retailer exclusive covers. The Enterprise Edition, with art by Stephen Molnar, featuring the Enterprise and a grim-faced Kirk, is limited to 1701 copies and available online at www.enterpriseedition.co.uk. Orders can be placed from a US or UK vendor. The Hastings Exclusive features Kirk, Spock and McCoy, armed and dangerous. This cover is drawn by Erfan Fajar and can be purchased at Hastings Entertainment brick-and-mortar stores in the US. It’s a tough call, but I have to give the nod to Molnar’s Enterprise edition as the best cover. I have no idea if the details of Molnar’s Enterprise are accurate. Don’t care. It just looks cool.

 

Cover A: Art by David Messina and colors by Claudia Scarletgothica, Cover B: Photo cover



Cover RI CGC: Art by David Messina and colors by Claudia Scarletgothica

 

Cover ENTERPRISE EDITION: Art by Stephen Molnar and colors by John Roach, Cover RE Hastings Exclusive: Art by Erfan Fajar and colors by Stellar Labs

Preview of Star Trek: Countdown to Darkness #1

Diamond Previews released the first five pages of the comic last week, but here they are again, with two extra pages.

Star Trek: Countdown to Darkness #1 Page 1 Star Trek: Countdown to Darkness #1 Page 2 Star Trek: Countdown to Darkness #1 Page 3 Star Trek: Countdown to Darkness #1 Page 4 Star Trek: Countdown to Darkness #1 Page 5 Star Trek: Countdown to Darkness #1 Page 6 Star Trek: Countdown to Darkness #1 Page 7

You can find Countdown to Darkness #1 at your local comic shop on Wednesday. If your local comic shop runs out of copies, don’t worry. IDW has already scheduled a second printing which will be in comic shops late February. Star Trek comics from IDW Publishing are also available in digital format same day as print, for your laptop or desktop computer, and your gadgets. See read.idwpublishing.com, IDW’s Star Trek app at iTunes, or the comiXology app at Amazon or Google Play.



Digital Star Trek comics available same day as print!

If you don’t care to purchase and read the four individual issues of Countdown to Darkness, they’ll be collected in trade paperback for publication in late April, before the new Star Trek film is released. You can pre-order the book at Amazon.

Mark Martinez is an obsessive-compulsive Star Trek comics reader and collector. You can visit his website, the Star Trek Comics Checklist for more than you ever needed to know about Star Trek comics.

Comments

1. Iva - January 22, 2013

How many people actually read these?

2. Hawaii - January 22, 2013

Wow!! April?

So no Khan then….

3. boborci - January 22, 2013

i read them

4. Bridging the Gap - January 22, 2013

i so HAVE to read this. omg i can’t wait!

5. Darkthunder - January 22, 2013

Peter Weller as Robert April, perhaps?

He did say he was playing a member of Starfleet, and had his own ship. We haven’t heard squat, what role he might be playing in the movie. All the focus has been on Benedict Cumberbatch.

6. Djeewhy - January 22, 2013

How can Robert April be a former Captain of the Enterprise? In the precedent movie we saw the launch of Enterprise with Captain Christopher Pike on chair. Do you mean there was an other ship Enterprise between NX 01 and NCC 1701? I just can follow you anymore!

7. Avi - January 22, 2013

How can April be a former captain of the Enterprise? We saw the Enterprise’s maiden voyage and Pike was in command.

8. Hat Rick - January 22, 2013

I love how even the comics have lens flares. ;-)

9. MJ - January 22, 2013

Gotta admit,

That guy a couple weeks back who we all thought was crazy with all the Robert April postings — well he is probably getting the last laugh on this now. Looks like he was spot-on!

Kudos to that guy who predicted this — can’t recall his name?

10. Iva - January 22, 2013

3. boborci

I’m not counting you or anybody involved in the making of it.

I was thinking about the fans because this is the only place I see these comics get discussed and even here there’s only a few comments each time.
So far the larger portion of the fandom is either ignorant or uninterested?

11. boborci - January 22, 2013

well… the first coutdown series made the NY Times best seller list. so somebody besides me and my mother must read them. or maybe my mother just buys a lot more copies than she admits;)!

12. Djeewhy - January 22, 2013

I read them too

13. Iva - January 22, 2013

11. boborci

So it’s just the local fans then. Probably the youngest generation too.

What are you going to do with the rest of the world this time around? Abrams Trek has a lot of work to do, first movie wasn’t even in the top ten worldwide which is sad considering which movies did make it.

14. sunnyincaprica - January 22, 2013

Drew McWeeny over at hitfix had a Robert April theory. I thought he was insane. Now…

http://www.hitfix.com/motion-captured/a-day-at-bad-robot-gives-us-a-better-look-at-star-trek-into-darkness/3

15. Mark Lynch - January 22, 2013

I bought the trade paperback for the `09… And will be doing the same for this run too.

16. MJ - January 22, 2013

@11. I hate comics Bob, but I had to order the last countdown series, and I just ordered issue #1 of this countdown series. Gotta to have my sequel pre-info fix…I am like a junkie.

Why am I still up???

17. boborci - January 22, 2013

13. why is it sad? box office is all you care about?

18. boborci - January 22, 2013

mj. why are you still up?

I wish i was asleep, too, but sometimes, u gotta work nights.

go to bed;)!

19. Djeewhy - January 22, 2013

I think that many people still have a problem to consider comics to be canon. Countdown was pretty good and I considered the stiory should have benn included in the movie, but I understand tha making a three hours movie is risky. I love Messina’s Drawing and i’m just asking question about the story because these comics are canon and so, mistakes are difficult to admit for fans. That’s because I want Star Trek to be great that I post my doubts when I have some. I don’t want anything that you bring Star Trek higher. Just do it!

20. KingDaniel - January 22, 2013

EXTRA PAGE HERE: scifanatic.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/p7.jpg
Looks interesting :D

Hey Bob, the George Kirk in the last movie was loosely based on the version from Diane Carey’s old novels “Final Frontier” and “Best Destiny”, yes? Is the same true of this version of Robert April? Or did you and Mike Johnson go in a different direction with the character?

21. SoB - January 22, 2013

I liked how the 2009 Countdown was canon and important to the story of the movie, but on the other hand you could watch the movie without reading the Countdown and understand everything. That was some neat writing. :) Hope the 2013 Countdown will be like that as well. Great stuff, Bob!

22. boborci - January 22, 2013

yea on Kirk.

alternate universe April affected more by change in history.

23. boborci - January 22, 2013

thanks, SOB

24. SunnyinCaprica - January 22, 2013

Hi Bob! So cool that you post here. Thanks.

25. Iva - January 22, 2013

17. boborci – January 22, 2013

It’s sad you find the majority of fans to be irrelevant. Abrams Trek has to branch out and work on pleasing more than the least common dominator of American youth.

26. MJ - January 22, 2013

@18. Yea, thanks Bob. Good night!

27. boborci - January 22, 2013

iva.

american youth? our trek is highest grossing trek in history in this country, even adjusted for inflation. so what are you talking about?

28. boborci - January 22, 2013

iva. and given my hundreds of posts on this fan site, your accusation that I find fans irrelevant doesn’t hold water.

29. Bridging the Gap - January 22, 2013

Bob,

your trek is inspiring. i come from a small country, with a small rate of trekfans but even here, the fresh new clean trek look, in line with the traditional trek spirit we all-trekfans- cherish, has been more than appreciated.

Thank you.

30. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 22, 2013

How do you get the impression that Bob Orci thinks the majority of fans irrelevant?

I would read the comics if they were easily available.

Anyway, Star Trek has always been more of an audio/visual medium to me.

31. boborci - January 22, 2013

29. thank you!

what country?

32. jonathan evans - January 22, 2013

to boborci and the whole crew: thanks for your work on these comics and novelizations. this stuff is what makes star trek come alive again.

33. KingDaniel - January 22, 2013

@22
You mean… he might not wear a cardigan over his uniform? :(

nooooooooooooooooooooo!

34. SoB - January 22, 2013

Bob, I keep wondering how close you are to the Post-production of the movie?

I mean, was your (You, Kurztman, Lindelof) job over when the writing was done or are you engaged in Post-production as well since you guys are producers as well?

35. boborci - January 22, 2013

yeah, exactly. since we are producers AND JJ is so collaborative, we are more involved than we sometimes have time for;)

36. Bridging the Gap - January 22, 2013

31. I come from Greece. I watched the 2009 movie 5 times at the cinema, all 5 times, the cinema was full of people of all ages. And, full of excitement.

Again, thank you for all that good stuff.

37. boborci - January 22, 2013

bridging the gap

wow. 5 times? thank you!

have heard Greece is more than beautiful. will visit someday.

thanks again for watching it. hope not to disappoint you this year!

38. Brian Johnson - January 22, 2013

Say what you will, but I for one like the lens flares. Even in the comics.

39. Garth Faction - January 22, 2013

I didn’t think April would really be mentioned, but I’m wrong. Still the “Into the Darkness” preludes might all be about the corruption in Star Fleet without the movie villain(s) being in them so it doesn’t mean we will see April in the films. But it certainly raises the possibility.

Garth still fits everything. Doesn’t mean he will be in it, but he still fits.

40. njdss4 - January 22, 2013

That was a great preview! I love seeing character development like this. Seeing Spock and his continuing struggle to deal with the loss of Vulcan and his mother, and how that’s affecting his relationship with Uhura. I hope there’s stuff like this in Into Darkness!

41. boborci - January 22, 2013

FYI – if you like this comic, most of the credit goes to Mike Johnson. and of course, very cool to have Anthony Pascale consulting.

42. SoB - January 22, 2013

I just realized that its 2 am in LA.

So while I’m sitting here on the other side of the planet wasting work hours, Bob Orci is working late night on some awesome movie/tv projects and answering trek questions on here.

Damn, I’m living in the future. ;)

43. boborci - January 22, 2013

Sob

i am in new orleans where it s 430 am!

i know what you mean about living in the future. weird that we can chat on Al Gore’s internets;)

44. Matthew - January 22, 2013

Bob, what’s up with the movie not coming out until July in Spain! I can’t believe I am going to have to wait two more months than everybody else to see the movie. Also will have to avoid Internet spoilers etc. it is going to be impossible and will ruin the movie for me.

45. captain nick - January 22, 2013

HI BOB I LOOK FORWARD TO INTO DARKNESS AND OWN NO. 1 HAVE LOST COUNT OF THE TIMES I HAVE WATCHED IT, EVEN WATCH IT WHEN IT COMES ON TV. I THINK IT IS ALWAYS WISE TO REMAIN OPEN MINDED AND APPRECIATE WHAT YOU HAVE DONE FOR TREK. BTW I FOLLOW YOU ON TWITTER @NICKHILLS7.

46. Well Of Souls - January 22, 2013

Hello Iva & Hawaii, Hello Bob. Awesome!!! TAS gets a nod, Captain April comes to life. Extremely pleased @ the tidbits that are slowly piecing this puzzle together without giving away too much. I read these comics myself, but apparently part1 of this 4 part Into Darkness prequel isn’t available yet. I’m patient, I have my copy reserved…

47. Son Of MJ - January 22, 2013

Ha Ha I knew it Peter Weller is Robert April!
I wouldnt be surprised if John Harrison turns out to be a reverse aged April.

48. boborci - January 22, 2013

mathew.

i must admit that the situation sucks. u have my sympathy. will try n think of way to make it up to u.

49. boborci - January 22, 2013

45 thanks, Captain Nick!

good night, all. nice to have company.

50. Matthew - January 22, 2013

No probs, it’s just a bit frustrating. But I know it’s not your fault, it’s all marketing nowadays and Trek has never been big here. Gibraltar is a couple of hours away and hopefully they will have the same release date there as the UK.

51. SoB - January 22, 2013

Matthew

Dude just come over to Germany in June. :)
I live near the netherlands where they show the movies in unsynchronized (in english). I plan to catch Into Darkness there first…and after that in 3D and in german. ;D

52. KingDaniel - January 22, 2013

Goodnight Bob, thanks for the reply! :)

*brain imagining ways April could have gone bad in the past 25 years*

53. Djeewhy - January 22, 2013

But I still ask myself :”How can Robert April be a former Captain of the Enterprise?” I’ll read and see.

54. KingDaniel - January 22, 2013

I’m beginning to wonder if what we saw in STXI was actually a refit of the Enterprise, not building her from scratch?

Or maybe April was never Enterprise captain in this timeline, and it’s just the reviewer’s choice of words to remind us what he was in the primeline.

55. Mark Lynch - January 22, 2013

@52
I was asking myself the very same question…

It can’t be the NX-01, too old a ship and as we all know from TAS, April was the first captain of the Enterprise as we originally know it.

So what gives?

Am interested to find out though… :)

56. CAPT KRUNCH - January 22, 2013

How is April Captain of the E when Pike was to take her out on her maiden voyage….Was he the original pick and Pike beat him out in some way…..stay tuned for details.. Surely Harrison is not April…he would be recognized….

57. LogicalLeopard - January 22, 2013

9. MM

Robert April…..well I’ll be a tribble’s uncle…

Does crow taste better on toasted bread or a buttermilk biscuit? I have to have it for breakfast too, because I sort of poo pooed the April evidence as well.

58. WaylanderNeo - January 22, 2013

Just a thought, and this is assuming that the “former captain of the Enterprise” is relevant to the new timeline and not just for clarifications sake from the review to the reader – what if April was in command/overseeing the constuction of the NX-1701, while a little bit of a fudge, would help explain how April could be a former commander and how Pike was in command for the maiden voyage of the NCC-1701. (Much like the Excelsior went from NX-2000 in ST:III to full active service as NCC-2000 in ST:VI)

While I think its just for clarifications sake and I’m guility of overthinking this – there could a wealth of stories to tell about the experimental stages of the NX-1701 and how ultimately April lost command. In any case, looking forward to how Into Darkness plays out!

59. JRT! - January 22, 2013

Hey Bob Orci!
I read the comics and I love them! Will read this and still read the ongoing ones. And thanks for the great work on them.

Looking forward to new movie.

J-R!

60. LogicalLeopard - January 22, 2013

As to the “How can April be the first captain” question, three options.

1) Maybe he’s not supposed to be. The author of this article refers to him as such, but that doesn’t mean the comic does. Anyone who has read it yet, please let us know.

2) He was probably the captain during the shakedown cruise, and replaced by Pike as the regular captain. If he’s a bad guy, maybe this is part of the reason he’s so ornery, being found not for to command the fed flagship.

3) This is a little out there, but Pike said, “Ladies and gentlemen, the maiden voyage of our newest flagship deserves more pomp and circumstance than we can afford today. Her christening will just have to be our reward for a safe return. Carry on.” It’s possible the Enterprise was in service for a short time, but wasn’t appointed the FLAGSHIP until later. But not much time, as it was still being built three years before. If they got it done in a year, its possible.

61. pilotfred - January 22, 2013

i am looking forward to this comic

star trek comics has help me get back into comics so good work and keep going

62. Chris Doohan - January 22, 2013

I read them as well. Anticipating their arrival, Bob

63. marty - January 22, 2013

hey boborci, get me involved on star trek 13 :-p writing.. extra.. rick berman’s old job.. :-D

i can dream, can’t i?

64. X - January 22, 2013

“Spock is still having difficulty. His grief keeps him awake and pushes Uhura away. Kirk is awake too, talking to the computer because he lacks companionship.”

This sounds like the start of slashy fanfiction summary.

65. Jack - January 22, 2013

I read ‘em too. The comics are good.

Comics, generally, are hugely popular. Does IDW release sales figures for these?

66. Sean4000 - January 22, 2013

Hey bob, welcome to New Orleans! You’re in my neck of the woods.

67. JRT! - January 22, 2013

Hey Chris Doohan!
So it’s true you’re in the new movie? Got a bigger role this time or aren’t you allowed to say anything about it yet? Just happy to hear you’re in it though. COOL!

John-Robin!

68. NCC-73515 - January 22, 2013

Ha, so we were right about April appearing! XD

69. Garth Faction - January 22, 2013

Ok. I figured it out. Harrison is “FutureGuy” trying to reset the time lines after he caused Nero to destroy Star Fleet and he found the outcome was worse than what had happened before Nero…. and so he recruits April from the original time-line to fix everything

……. or probably not…

I’m still not convinced April (the person) will be in the movie. He could be like other TNG cast in the comics who didn’t make it to the movie….

70. NFXStudios - January 22, 2013

I’m sure someone smarter than I am has posted this in here already, but in answer to how April could be a “former Captain of the Enterprise…”

It was apparent in the last movie that there was some convalescent period for Pike, and Kirk was presumably back at Starfleet Academy for a period (perhaps for review, or to finish classes, etc), leaving a short gap where the Enterprise would need a Captain, if even while just in drydock for repairs.

Or it is possible that there was an Enterprise between the NX and the NCC-1701. Seems unlikely that the NX would still be around.

Guess we’ll be finding out shortly.

71. Mikey C - January 22, 2013

I read all of the Trek books that IDW puts out, while they are not all the greatest comics ever, the quality of the books is really good overall. The track record over the years for Trek comics has not been the greatest. I am really enjoying the Trek books in the new timeline/universe and tie-ins like Countdown and Nero, that fill in more back story of the 2009 movie are particularly astounding. I am impatiently waiting for the release of Countdown to Darkness and expect to read a great Star Trek comic.

72. Jerry Modene - January 22, 2013

Well, in the novels, George Kirk served under Robert April, not Captain Ramau (sp?) – perhaps the Kelvin was originally intended to be the original Enterprise? Wouldn’t *that* have been a shocker for the 2009 audience, to have the “Enterprise” destroyed in the first five minutes of the movie.

73. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 22, 2013

I doubt I’ll have to eat much in the way of crow. If Khan does appear, then I guess I might need to eat some. I have tried to keep an open mind as to who might or might not be in the film. I think that Bob and co have not given much, if anything, away.

Captain April is now in the new comic but does that mean he will be in the film also and/or will he just be mentioned?

2am in LA? What is the date?

I am up abnormally late – it is 1.56am, 23 January, Wednesday morning here now. I assume LA is Los Angeles. I thought that NZ was between 19 and 21 hours ahead of LA time wise, depending on daylight saving and time of year.

#36 – Given that you are from Greece, I just have to ask – Many years ago, I spent a week in Crete during July – gorgeous sea, scenery and sun. What I remember most were the huge sweet, juicy beef tomatoes, the lovely Greek salads and statues of various sizes of “monkey” men with ginormous erections. I am not kidding. I have a small 3 inch one as a souvenir. I had to get one because I did not think that anyone would believe me otherwise. Plus he makes one of the more pleasant and memorable a souvenir. And, oh my – he/it does look gooood!!!

Are those monkey men still around on Crete? I do hope so…:)

74. chrisfawkes.com - January 22, 2013

I’ll get the comics. I liked how it gave backstory to the first film.

Plus it will give me a monthly fix until the movie comes out.

My nieces were not interested in Trek at all until they saw the nine minute preview, now they are going to see it.

75. Frederick - January 22, 2013

I don’t see a problem with April being the first captain of the Enterprise in this timeline as in the original (as shown in TAS). We don’t KNOW that the ship in the shipyard of the ’09 movie was the first Enterprise. Just the newest one. I’d say we will find out it goes back further.

76. Bridging the Gap - January 22, 2013

72. LOL I know what you mean, these are statues representing the festivities in honor of God Dionysos, the god of wine and fertility in ancient Greece! They sell them everywhere, even in small touristic shops in the center of Athens.

And yes, Crete is wonderful, as most of the greek islands. I hope you enjoyed your holiday :)

77. Dee - lvs moon' surface - January 22, 2013

Mr. Orci … Of course I’m interested in that … the mood of Spock in this story is exciting … I can not wait to see this … one way or another it always reaches the surface of the moon … ;-) :-)

78. Dee - lvs moon' surface - January 22, 2013

And Mr. Orci! … before I forget … Please … We want more interviews with Karl Urban during the promotion of Into Darkness … Please! Please! … Bones rocks!

;-) :-)

79. Strugglin' Author - January 22, 2013

So…I’m over 40 and read a ton of Comics. It’s a great medium where art and writing merge and create a new whole. They are fun and some can even be thought provoking. Besides….who wants to grow up?

If I recall correctly, in Final Frontier, the Enterprise wasn’t the Enterprise yet…it was a prototype ship that would later become the Enterprise. This ship was sent on missions that were…let’s say…under the radar. April commanded this “no name” vessel. The Enterprise we saw in ’09 may be the ‘released’ version of that prototype.

George (pappa) Kirk was also the first officer of that vessel. It will be interesting if they tie the destruction of the Kelvin (no George Kirk) into what leads April to be stranded on this planet. Did Prime George somehow keep April from going bad? Without him does April stray (if I recall April was a bit of a lose cannon – it was George that kept him together)? How far with the effects of Nero go? How many lives are truly impacted by the destruction of the Kelvin?

I was against the alternative universe idea when the ’09 movie came out but now I can see the benefit. There are some great ideas which can come from this new universe. So many nuggets to explore. I just hope they don’t stop too soon.

80. LJ - January 22, 2013

My hope is that April remains English, as in the novels. The possibility of Peter Weller playing him has me worried about this. If I was casting an older April, I’d have picked Ian McKellen for his presence and ability to play both good and bad.

As others have suggested, it is still possible for April to have been a former Enterprise captain. Whilst it is unlikely that the NX-01 would be in service for so long, it is more than plausible there was another ship in between (NCC-01 perchance?). Enterprise is a prestigious name, thus I find it unlikely there’d be a substantial period without an Enterprise in commission – check out how many Enterprises the Royal Navy has had.

81. Strugglin' Author - January 22, 2013

One more thing….what I have come to like (and respect) about Bob O. and crew is the simple fact that they understand Trek lore. Small details are added that give depth to the story and the characters. They truly try to keep things connected – although the Delta Vega thing is still a bit of a stretch =)

Bob….thanks for bringing Trek back.

82. Jack - January 22, 2013

I like the April thing. Feels right. I’ve always wanted to see more of the guy.

I loved that description of the first voyage of the Enterprise in one of those TAS novelizations I read as a kid — it was 40 years before TAS. Which is why that “the enterprise is nearly 20 years old, we feel her day is over” line bugged me a little in Trek III. It’s not that long.

83. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 22, 2013

So far, in the Star Trek promotional interviews, usually two or three actors are interviewed together. I believe the name Pinto came about as a result of Chris Pine and Zachary Quinto teaming up to do interviews. It makes sense because they play Kirk and Spock respectively.

I think it would be good if they mix it up a bit this time, as in have Chris Pine and Karl Urban interviewed together, talking about STID and Zachary Quinto and Zoe Saldana put together. Chris could also be interviewed with, eg John Cho or Benedict Cumberbatch – any number of variations. Putting Zach and Zoe together for an interview might upset a certain minority…

84. LogicalLeopard - January 22, 2013

79)

As I’ve said before, I think that it’s more likely that April was the captain of the Enterprise during it’s shakedown cruise, prior to the events of ST09. As far as April being English, I’d like that too, but do you or does anyone else know if he had an English accent in “The Counter Clock Incident?” Because the novels aren’t canon, but TAS is, apparently.

If he isn’t English (and is in TAS), i’m not going to put up a fuss about it. After all, the Kelvin incident probably changed the birthplaces, or places characters were raised, in many characters, like it did for Kirk. All it takes is for April to be the son of a Starfleet officer, who is reassigned to San Fransico Headquarters, or the Shipyards, or wherever, to come away with an American accent.

Er wait, scratch that. April would be older than the Kelvin incident. Dunno, maybe he pulled a Madonna and faked an American accent because it was cool *L*

85. Moputo Jones - January 22, 2013

So has anyone picked this up yet? Does April look like Peter Weller?

86. chrisfawkes.com - January 22, 2013

We know for a fact that the Enterprise in the 09 film was not the first given that they recognized Admiral Archer.

Anyone remember the name of the ship Captain Archer helmed?

87. Killamarshtrek - January 22, 2013

Ahem!

Can I call your attention to this and the posts that followed it over on the BR ‘Webinar’ thead. Whilst this news doesn’t mean it’s ‘Case closed’ yet that Robert April is in the film, who’s going to bet against it now?!
Apart from Curious Cadet that is!

Oh and to NCC-73515…..”Hi five’s all round”!

116. Killamarshtrek – January 10, 2013
With thanks to NCC-73515 for spotting it, I’ve produced a screen capture of this image from the Bad Robot ‘Webinar’.

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q689/Killamarshtrek/Soundeffects_zpse61754ac.jpg

It is clearly a list of sound effects Folders, some of which have been opened to show the individual sounds. Amongst them are ‘Lava Bubbles’ (from Volcano scene?), the usual transporter, Warp core etc Star Trek sounds you’d expect, Ambulances and 3 variations of ‘April Giant Gun’.
That’s April as in ROBERT APRIL, not John Harrison!

There are others that are difficult to make out. take a look!

88. BulletInTheFace - January 22, 2013

#25: Are you always this socially inept? Jesus Christ.

89. chrisfawkes.com - January 22, 2013

Lets consider too that this recognizes Robert April as part of Star Trek canon for the first time.

And you read it first @ trekmovie.

90. LogicalLeopard - January 22, 2013

86. Killamarshtrek – January 22, 2013

*bows head, offering in his best Captain Klaa voice*

I…..apologize…..

91. LogicalLeopard - January 22, 2013

80. Strugglin’ Author – January 22, 2013

I think that Delta Vega thing is less of a stretch than people think. Look at this star chart. I’m not sure how “long” the boxes are, but Delta Vega is in the third box from the left, in the row “closest” to you. Vulcan is either in the box situated diagonally to Delta Vega (one step to the right, one row behind) or in the box behind that one in the third row.

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120828225333/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/6/62/The_Explored_Galaxy.jpg/1280px-The_Explored_Galaxy.jpg

As I’ve said before, it’s obvious that Spock didnt’ actually see Vulcan destroyed with his eyes, unless Delta Vega is Vulcan’s moon. Which would make no sense, being that cold and that close to the sun. Just like people who saw Jupiter last night, they wouldn’t be able to tell if it were destroyed.

92. Joe - January 22, 2013

i always wondered why in the prime universe there wasn’t a enterprise between NX-01 and NCC-1701. i mean if 2161 was the year that enterprise was decommissioned and NCC-1701 was commissioned in 2245.

93. Sub Trek - January 22, 2013

Yeah @84.

That’s the most important question. Is he old? Young? What does he look like (doesn’t necessarily have to like like any certain actor, I guess as it is a comic). Is he actually mentioned as a former captain of an Enterprise ship?

More spoilers, please. But I guess we ought to buy it or have to wait until it is officially released.

94. Sub Trek - January 22, 2013

Sorry for the double post, forgot this: I guess it is certain now that April’s gun is really April’s gun. How does Cumberbatch get his hands on it?

95. Mark Martinez - January 22, 2013

@30 Rose (as in Keachick): The comics are easier than ever to read these days. You can read them with a web browser at http://read.idwpublishing.com/ and if you aren’t in a hurry, the price of IDW’s digital comics usually drops from $3.99 to $1.99 after a few weeks.

@59 LogicalLeopard: In the dialogue of the comic, April refers to himself as a former captain of the Enterprise.

@84 Moputo Jones: Artist David Messina’s rendition of April doesn’t resemble Peter Weller.

96. LogicalLeopard - January 22, 2013

94: Mark Martinez

Thanks for the clarification!

Hmmnn….doesn’t look like Weller. I wonder if he looks like any of the other unnamed actors in this movie.

Well, man….that leads me to two conclusions. Either,

A) April does NOT appear in the movie, but is used in the background story, much like key figures in the ST09 Countdown didn’t make it into the actual movie, or…

B) Cumby is APRIL. Wow…..if that happens, I’m going to have to find a theatre that serves crow flavored popcorn…..

97. LogicalLeopard - January 22, 2013

Okay, that’s it. I’m done trying to outthink the brain trust. I thought for SURE the April stuff was a red herring, just like other red herrings that I thought were being thrown about. But now with the revelation that April is in the comic, and the thought that HE might be the villian just….makes me….tremble…with…..faux….rage…..

ORCIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

98. LogicalLeopard - January 22, 2013

*LOL* I should have said that under the weight of secrecy, rumor, and endless hypotheses, we’re all being buried alive….buried alive….buried alive….

99. Moputo Jones - January 22, 2013

Crap – IDW’s online comics reader http://read.idwpublishing.com/ is down! I guess I’ll just have to keep checking all day at work.

100. Mark Martinez - January 22, 2013

@98 I wouldn’t expect to see Countdown to Darkness #1 at http://read.idwpublishing.com/ until Wednesday, Jan 23.

101. Enterprise Ensign #4 - January 22, 2013

I absolutely LOVED the original countdown series, especially when it showed the Enterprise-E warping off AFTER both Nero’s ship and Spock’s had gone into the black hole – this told us that the Prime timeline continues on after they went back in time and changed “history”. I enjoyed the little details, like Data’s memories totally incorporated into B4. Geordi is the person that designed the jellyfish ship (Spock’s ship) and that the Narada that we see is NOT a simple mining vessel, but a result of incorporation with Borg technology. Beautiful touches.
I’ve also been reading the “Star Trek – Ongoing” series and love how the classic episodes in the new timeline started off very similar but as time progresses, they have been differing in pretty major ways. Very much looking forward to this series!

102. Moputo Jones - January 22, 2013

@99 Well, I’ll have to obsessively check it tomorrow at work!

103. Peter N - January 22, 2013

I have really enjoyed the Ongoing comic book series, and now am eagerly anticipating C2D to see if I can figure out what clues were peppered into the previous Ongoing issues. I don’t expect that the Alt-Mirror Universe two-parter will have contributed to STID’s storyline, but the individual character backstory issues which will parallel C2D might provide a few more tidbits. Robert April… wow. Is he heading a Starfleet shadow group? Is Harrison his protégé? Does Harrison lead a revolt against this group? So many possibilities. Thanks Bob – can’t wait!

104. Jack - January 22, 2013

30. I’d be surprised if a comic book store near you didn’t have them, Rose. But, yeah, they’re online.

105. KG - January 22, 2013

You know, April being mentioned as “a former Captain of the Enterprise” may just be Mark’s reference to Star Trek Canon itself and not specifically to April in the AU.

Why would Mark know anyway unless it was specifically mentioned how/why in the comic?

106. PaulB - January 22, 2013

#104 – A previous comment already stated that April identifies himself as a former captain of the Enterprise WITHIN THE COMIC, so it’s not just Mark referring to canon.

107. Jack - January 22, 2013

30. Are you in Auckland? Gotham Comics carries IDW.

108. Boy - January 22, 2013

#82

No way will people not like zach and zoe been together, not even the minority. zach and zoe go back like 10 years back and are the closet friends.also zoe was one of the people that knew zach was gay long before he came out.

However i love chirs and zoe together,ther are so cute in the sibling way.they also get a chance to host the technical Oscars .i will have to watch the awards just for them.

Chir is so out there, zq is reserved and zoe is one of the most sort after actreesees in hollywood.so it is no surprise the ocars chose chris and zoe as host.

Besides all that publicity generated towards two of the most popular actor in trek 13 is great publicity for this film.

My gosh I can tell you guys how badly I want this film to be successful.

I also want it to have amazing reviews, I am talking above 90% fresh on rotten tomatoes and 80/100 on metacritic at least.

I want this film to be atleast oin the top 3 highest grosing film in the usa and in the top 5 world wide box office.

Its Time for TREK to take its place as a world wide box office juggernut like harry potter ,LOTR and star wars …it deserves it.

109. Jack - January 22, 2013

Bob and Mark, will the comic spoil stuff?

I gotta decide whether I need to go into this movie knowing nothing (well, apart from everything I read here). But, let’s be honest — once this stuff is out, it’s tough to avoid.

Was the 2009 Countdown in the works before the movie was made, or was it an afterthought?

110. LogicalLeopard - January 22, 2013

So April is arming an alien race, in an apparent violation of the Prime Directive.

I smell a “Crazy Data” scenario coming.

By that, I mean the opening to Insurrection, when everyone thought Data had gone nuts, but he was really acting ethically to expose Starfleet treachery. The “April’s Gatling Gun” thingy makes me think he’s STILL arming people. Maybe April’s background is in weapons/tactical. As to the reason why he’s doing it, the speculation could be so wide open that it’s really not worth doing at this time.

Interesting note from http://www.flickeringmyth.com/2013/01/so-does-idws-star-trek-into-darkness.html

“Now, as drawn in the comic, Robert April bears little resemblance to Benedict Cumberbatch, but in fairness Kirk looks nothing like Chris Pine either, and while April appears much older, there’s still three issues for that whole age-reversal process to kick in. Of course, there is the possibility that April’s appearance is Countdown to Darkness is just another clever ruse to throw us off the scent, or simply a little nod to the Trek faithful, but personally I think we might just have had the answer to the question of who ‘John Harrison’ really is.”

111. RenderedToast - January 22, 2013

Just like the previous comic series, nothing that happens in this comic will have anything to do with the movie. Hell, the first Countdown series gets openly contradicted in the film.

112. Mattyb from Manchester UK - January 22, 2013

#107 Boy

Very rousing speech sir, and couldn’t agree more

113. LogicalLeopard - January 22, 2013

108. Jack – January 22, 2013

Was the 2009 Countdown in the works before the movie was made, or was it an afterthought?

**************************

I believe that the comics were prior to the movie’s release (hence “countdown”), and the general story was probably laid out after the movie’s story was completed. That’s what I would think.

As far as my opinion on spoilers, I think this website will contain more spoilers than the comics, even though those spoilers will be mostly unconfirmed guesses from all of us. I can tell you that I don’t think the original comics would have spoiled ST09, although I admittedly read it afterward. It had a lot of background information, but not much about the plot itself.

I seriously doubt the brain trust is going to give up any information about John Harrison, based on the fact that unlike Nero, Harrison isn’t even featured on one of the four covers.

114. LWR - January 22, 2013

Bob Orci… New Orleans

My Purple Pride envies you
LOL!!

By the way…Love FRINGE and H5O

115. Mad Man - January 22, 2013

So it IS Captain April! So that was “April’s Gatling Gun” in the production art at the Bad Robot visit!

I wonder what Orci means by alt universe changes to April.

116. ME!! - January 22, 2013

What….was April only captain for a year or two after launch in the Abramsverse?

117. emotionally logical - January 22, 2013

I checked the comixology and IDW apps, countdown to darkness isn’t there.

118. Jack - January 22, 2013

112. Yep, I know it came out before the movie… I guess I was asking about whether it was thought of / in the works before filming. And whether or not some of it was a reaction to, perhaps, things that didn’t get explained as well in the filmed script as they would have liked. Or, were there ideas that they didn’t get a chance to fit into the original script?

As Bob knows, I get hung up on Nimoy’s voiceover during the mind meld.

119. Smike - January 22, 2013

@9: I talked about Robert April a lot…but then I also talked about Gary Mitchell, Garth of Izar, Khan… I guess Peter Weller will be playing April…a CEO of sorts ;) And Harrison will use his Gattling Gun…

120. Lt. Wilson - January 22, 2013

Iva reminds me of people in the media….living in their own little world and completely out of touch with reality.

Also reminds me of an old friend…one who thought everyone else in the world shared his opinion on things I liked that he didn’t.

That is both arrogant and presumptuous, not to mention ignorant.

121. Strugglin' Author - January 22, 2013

@117
Speaking of voice over….At the end of Trek ’09 Prime Spock says “Thrusters ahead full” as he looks over the balcony. Then it fades to the bridge as AU Spock enters. You then hear the command “thrusters ahead full”.

Is this to imply that Prime Spock “remembers” this event? I was a bit confused about that one….

122. Michael - January 22, 2013

I’m not sure I want a former Enterprise captain to be the head of the terrorists and a gun runner for Khan. Oh we’ll, I guess it’s more dramatic that way.

123. NuFan - January 22, 2013

Looks like Captain April was the one who found Botany Bay and its one man weapon of mass destruction first.

124. LogicalLeopard - January 22, 2013

@117

I really liked the trippy voice over during the Mind meld, it worked well with the mind echoes one probably gets when they mind meld. Kirk’s reaction was pretty good too. I hope Spock was able to hold back SOME of the pain of all those Vulcan deaths.

@120

I think “thrusters ahead full” is probably a normal command for taking the ship out of dock.

125. Jack - January 22, 2013

117. I have no problem with the voice or it being a voiceover — it’s a couple of the actual lines in that sequence.

I remember reading somewhere that Nimoy improvised the thrusters bit.
I assumed his Spock was wistfully remembering being on the Enterprise and setting out on a new journey… the line was a bit different than what Sulu says, and what was normally said…

126. LogicalLeopard - January 22, 2013

Hmmmnnn….here’s a theory on April.

Maybe he’s arming these guys because of a threat from the Klingon Empire. They could care less about developing civilizations. Maybe April’s position is that it’s silly to preserve the Prime Directive when the Klingons are just going to invade and put a base there anyway. I mean, if Earth right now were on the outskirts of a conquering empire, wouldn’t you want a peaceful federation of planets to come in and give us weapons/tech to fight them if need be, or to join the Federation? I

That would be a very interesting premise for the movie.

127. efren - January 22, 2013

Bob Orci

So this prequel comic and the others that were released that featured gary mitchell all canon in the alternate reality?

128. The Last Vulcan - January 22, 2013

What the great The Last Vulcan said weeks ago is being proven correctly.

Harrison is April deaged and superpowered by Khan eugenic secret sauce. Take it to the bank.

Thank you. I apologize for not being around more as I have a huge project I’m counting upon to pay the rent. Now I gotta get back to work.

LL&P!

P.S. boborci, thanks for participating to such a degree. I have no words to express my appreciation and I’m sure the appreciation of the vast majority of frequenters of this site.

129. Praetor Tal - January 22, 2013

I’m not really into comics, but I read the previous Countdown omnibus, and then the Nero omnibus as well. Good stuff, though I’m kinda busy to go hunting them down issue by issue rather than just buying the paperback when it comes out on Amazon and getting it delivered right to my door.

130. Buzz Cagney - January 22, 2013

Great news to hear Spock is pushing Uhura away. I’ll believe it when I see a bowl of soup hitting a bulkhead :))
Hopefully she’ll take the hint and get back to manning the switchboard.

131. Spock's Uncle - January 22, 2013

I love the fact that Bob Orci puts up with the petulant nerds and even responds to them on this site. Petulant nerds: you do not own Trek, Paramount, CBS and Bad Robot do! Now go to your basements and make bad fan movies! (Preferably Battlestar Galactica ones).

132. Aleksandar Cuk - January 22, 2013

boborci
I’m really pleasantly surprised someone involved in a major production is actually answering questions to the public (without the need for press releases and all that).
I am an aspiring writer (and hopefully director) myself, also not originally from the US even though I have lived there for 7 years. I am currently in Serbia, but I’m planning on making a return. Does Sci-Fi stimulate your imagination more than any other genre? Because, it does for me and would love to have your job in the future! :D

133. LogicalLeopard - January 22, 2013

130. Spock’s Uncle – January 22, 2013

*ears perk*

Wait….are there BSG fan movies? I would LOVE to see a bunch of guys pull fake guns on each other in their mom’s basements. And maybe pay an attractive blond neighbor girl to be a Cylon. Wonder if they could keep their lines straight *L*

134. LogicalLeopard - January 22, 2013

The Last Vulcan

*LOL* I owe you an apology too. I poo pooed your secret sauce theory, but as far as I’m concerned now, it’s back on the table. Don’t QUITE believe it, but I’m not silly enough to doubt it anymore.

135. Robman007 - January 22, 2013

@120

Kirk never gives the order for “thrusters on full”….he just says “manuevering thrusters..take us out”….so, Old Spock was mainly just remembering something from the original series (I’m not sure that line was used in TOS either)…

136. Aix - January 22, 2013

So Bleeding Cool posted a photo of Robert April in the comics and he looks like… an old Edgar Ramirez. Hahaha. You know, the guy that auditioned for the villain. Anyway, the plot thickens.

137. Bird of Prey - January 22, 2013

Perhaps John Harrison is some kind of protégé or pupil of April? The “Sulu” of “Chekov” in April’s last bridge crew?? The “Vader” to April’s “Palpatine”???

138. Phil - January 22, 2013

It’s very possible that Starfleet had a ship named Enterprise prior to the commissioning of NCC-1701, so Robert April could have commanded that vessel. When a ship is being built, or in drydock, she will have a commander, and changes of command occur often, so there is no reason to assume that would not happen in this fictional universe, too. Also, recall that it’s not uncommon for vessels to have the same name, in WWII two different carriers carried the name USS Hornet (CV8 and CV12).

139. LogicalLeopard - January 22, 2013

135)

You’re right!

Ramirez: http://www.imdb.com/media/rm1330490368/nm1183149

April: http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/01/22/star-trek-villain-spoiler-is-this-benedict-cumberbatchs-character-introducing-himself-by-name-his-real-name/robert-april/

But the only thing with that is that by the time the comic would have been created, I think the artist would have known what actor to base his April sketch off of. Or, maybe they made him go into it without anything, giving him a general description of the face and body to produce sketches, and then taking the best sketch out of all of them. When you think about it, if the old April isn’t in the movie (which is possible, despite what people think about Weller), you wouldn’t have to necessarily make him look just like Cumby. If Weller is Old April, he doesn’t look like Cumby either. So, who knows….

140. olly - January 22, 2013

Interviews with Cumberbatch not seen before re STID

http://youtu.be/OgTBa8QKq8k

http://youtu.be/WxR-Y4wmGso

141. Phil - January 22, 2013

But Spock is depressed? Trouble in Spock/Uhura land? The sum knowledge of the Vulcan race were a bunch of old people in a cave – what, no one backs up their files anymore?

I know, I know, nit pick away…..

142. MJ - January 22, 2013

@46 “I wouldnt be surprised if John Harrison turns out to be a reverse aged April.”

Huh? You mean like, “The Curious Case of Johnathan Harrison?”

:-0

143. Phil - January 22, 2013

What in the hell is this facintion with reverse aging?

144. Aurore - January 22, 2013

In December, in the comments section of a site where someone had shared his theory about “April” being in the sequel, a poster wrote the following (amongst other things):

“People who have seen scripts for the translation of the nine minutes confirm that the name in the Cumberbatch lines is ‘April'”.

Evidently, I had no way of knowing whether the poster in question was being “creative” or not.

Ah, well…
We’ll learn more about John Harrison in the coming weeks, months, anyway…

145. Sunfell - January 22, 2013

@BobOrci- I’ve been enjoying all the comics, prequels, and tie-ins to this new universe. They are well-written, well drawn, and add to the richness of the entire experience.

I cannot wait for tomorrow’s issue- and I also get the omnibus versions as well. So, count me in as a fan! And thank you for getting me back into the local comic book shop.

146. So tired - January 22, 2013

@Iva. The comics have so far sold out every single physical copy of each issue, across the entire US, it is utterly impossible to find back issues, stores can’t even order more from IDW, many issues go into 2nd and 3rd printings, and on top of that they sell even more in the downloadable digital comics format. Seriously, they sell millions and millions of copies every issue all over the world.

147. Killamarshtrek - January 22, 2013

To those of you who didn’t believe my evidence about April.

What say you now?

148. Ahmed - January 22, 2013

Does that mean that John Harrison is captain Robert April ?

149. Son Of MJ - January 22, 2013

141
As in the Counter Clock incident.

150. Son Of MJ - January 22, 2013

142 phill,
have you never seen the TAS episode the counter-clock incident.
Which featured……..
wait for it…..
Robert April

151. Red Dead Ryan - January 22, 2013

We’ll still have to wait and see whether Robert April is in the sequel. We still don’t know who Peter Weller is.

And on the subject of the “secret sauce”, why is it assumed that the story will be about a “fountain of youth”? I don’t think the writers are going to rehash a plot from a fourty year old episode of TAS.

Honestly, if the phrase “secret sauce” is mentioned in the movie, people are going to be laughing their heads off, mostly for the wrong reasons.

152. Phil - January 22, 2013

@149. Yes, I have. And I have a problem believing that the writers will fill the next movie with all the worst wild eyed plot devices that could be culled from the various TV shows….

153. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 22, 2013

#107 Boy – I agree that some people will not like seeing Zach and Zoe together in an interview, along with the small minority with an agenda… Then again, many people do like the Spock/Uhura relationship, so I think that many people would like seeing the two actors together promoting the movie along with the characters they play,

I also agree that Chris and Zoe look great together, so that’s another possible pairing for promotional interviews, however, their respective Star Trek characters appear to have little in common other than being work colleagues. Chris would be better with Zach, Karl or Ben (Cumberbatch)…

A cool look would be to have Zoe sit between Chris and Zach…:)

Chris and Karl for the win. Do the two get on OK in real life? I think they do. I hope so. This could also have the affect of emphasizing the Kirk/McCoy relationship, which has been understated and pretty much ignored for the most part, despite the fact that in both canon, Kirk and McCoy were already good friends before Spock came into the picture. In the prime universe, McCoy delivered Kirk’s son, David.

154. Silvereyes - January 22, 2013

MJ

Off topic, I was just wondering what you thought of the Into Darkness preview… I haven’t seen it myself. Strangely when I heard that the aliens at the beginning looked like white painted savages I just lost interest. I’m sick of those all-too-human-looking-Star-Trek-aliens…

By the way, I’m not asking if you still think Harisson is Khan. It doesn’t matter if he is or not and he could very well be an alternate version of Khan, so it’s irrelevant at this point.

155. JoJo - January 22, 2013

@152

“Chris and Karl for the win. Do the two get on OK in real life?”

Yeah, they do. Chris stated in an interview that ““I love Karl. I f***ing love Karl Urban. I really do. He has a tender place in my heart. ”

Google “Chris Pine talks about returning for ‘Star Trek Into Darkness,’ Karl Urban and gives ‘Jack Ryan’ update” — to read the entire article if you like. So their chemistry is real and definitely shows on film. In my opinion, this is why I think Chris and Karl should have the most screen-time together, and Zach and Zoe should have the most screen time together. All of them have extremely natural chemistry with the actor they’ve been mostly paired with. I can’t wait to see the movie to see what the dynamics are and how they play out. I love all the actors/characters.

156. drumvan - January 22, 2013

i never did read the “countdown” comics prior to seeing st’09….till today. with all the talk about the comics and the robert april theories i googled the 09 countdown comic and was able to watch it online. it was really fascinating! i’m not much of a comic reader but it was very enjoyable. gave me an intersting perspective on the 09 film. the tie-in to the next gen cast was something i wasn’t expecting.

makes me more interested to read the countdown to darkness series.

157. DX7 - January 22, 2013

Here’s the photo of April at the end of the comic. It’s very strange, he slightly resembles Chris Hemsworth (George Kirk)

http://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads//2013/01/robert-april-600×491.jpg?802b89

158. Moputo Jones - January 22, 2013

Uh, April as depicted in Issue #1 absolutely looks like Peter Weller.

159. Skulltrail - January 22, 2013

It’s hard to see it from this perspective but for me it looks that April has the same kind of pointed ears that Cumberbatch have in real life!

Cumberbatch and weller both have this blue eyes! Hard to say but I would be bored if the villain is someone like Khan which we had before because we know to much of him! A good Khan would be much more interesting! So a Robert April as Bad Guy would be really interesting!

160. Pensive's Wetness - January 22, 2013

@14… you know… that sounds really awesome. its certainly a cool way to include Pike, since he became a core charactor in NuTrek…

161. NCC-73515 - January 22, 2013

Killamarshtrek, we should meet and celebrate XD
boborci, say hello to the cemeteries for me! They are the coolest places in Nawleans ;)

162. Jenna - January 22, 2013

In case anyone is interested in the Batch outside of this, here’s a new pic as Julian Assange… http://www.businesswire.com/multimedia/home/20130122006643/en/

163. boborci - January 22, 2013

160. No kidding — Will do!

164. Skulltrail - January 22, 2013

http://1.2.3.13/bmi/i.imgur.com/jYislCC.jpg

April vs Weller! Very interesting! What was not considered before was that April let the alien race of phaedus attack the shuttle of the Enterprise although he should have see it that it is a federation vessel! So why in hell he let attack them?! Doesn’t show it already that he is very rough or almost gone bad?

165. Dalek - January 22, 2013

Bob Orci, hi what did you think of the Fringe finale? I thought it was one of the most emotionally satisfying finales of recent years. Brilliant conclusion.

166. MJ - January 22, 2013

@150 “We’ll still have to wait and see whether Robert April is in the sequel. We still don’t know who Peter Weller is.”

RDR, I think Weller probably is April through at this point. Who else would be playing a major part like that given the cast credits that we know so far?

167. boborci - January 22, 2013

164. Choked me up a few times

168. Killamarshtrek - January 22, 2013

@160. NCC-73515

Could be difficult as I’m from Mr April’s neck of the woods (UK). I’ll drink to the success of our collaboration though! Unless Mr Orci says we’re premature. Strange there’s no sign of ‘Curious Cadet’ now though!

169. Dalek - January 22, 2013

Bob I know what you mean: the scene with Walter and Peter after watching the video has to be one of the most emotional scenes of the whole series, teared me up. Thanks for creating a show that deserves its cult status as one of the all time greats of recent years.

170. efren - January 22, 2013

bob orci- What is in store for Transformers prime? What you think about the sequel /reboot?

171. Jack - January 22, 2013

Cumberbatch is April? He is British. But then who’s Weller?

172. NCC-73515 - January 22, 2013

Looks more like Mirror April!

173. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 22, 2013

Of course, of course. How could I forget that Chris and Karl do seem to get on? It was from an article I read in the NZ Herald, 5 January. I have the newspaper copy. I posted a link to the online Herald article. And Karl is a Geek! So love it. I remember flicking through the pages of the Herald which had just been delivered on Saturday morning and seeing a face…I thought, “Whoa, he looks nice. Hang on, isn’t that Chris…? Oh my god, it is too!” Chris Pine must have a real potty mouth. He even gets quoted saying the “F” word…LOL!

The picture of Chris is actually larger and shows more of him in my paper copy than it shows in the link. Everything else is exactly the same. Chris looks so gorgeous in that photo…:)! Just saying…

Bob Orci – I thought that you were one of Fringe’s creators and producers. Were not involved at all in the making of the fifth and final season of Fringe?

I am pleased that those who have already seen the Fringe finale seem to really like it. Please, people, no spoilers. I have yet to see it here. Hopefully, it will come to NZ TV soon, no doubt at the same 10.30pm Thursday timeslot. I suppose someone important does die. I don’t think it matters which one does, because I love all the characters and so I’ll probably be crying anyway…oh dear

Fringe is one of the best, if not the best, TV series to come out in such a long time. Thank you, JJ Abrams, Bob Orci and Alex Kurtzman for thinking up such a cool series and finding such good writers and actors to bring your ideas to life. Really, I mean that!

I have all four Fringe seasons on DVD and can’t wait for the fifth season to be released on TV, then DVD.

174. Matt - January 22, 2013

i love april’s black jacket. makes me want one.

175. Dee - lvs moon' surface - January 22, 2013

There are people elsewhere asking me … Why am I asking for more Karl Urban in interviews about Into Darkness? … WOW is so easy … firstly because he is gorgeous … but most importantly … Karl Urban is the guy able to contaminate others with his enthusiasm for Star Trek … He is not afraid to be a happy trekkie … That’s it!

And here … because, boborci is here!

Karl + Chris… Karl + Zach… Karl + Zoe…. Karl + Simon… Karl + Cho… Karl + Anton… and mainly > Karl + Benedict > since Karl knows everything about ST

;-) :-)

176. The Last Vulcan - January 22, 2013

@133. LogicalLeopard – No apology necessary as we’re all groping around in the dark trying to make the best out of the merest clues! :)

@137. Phil – Sure. Why not? In the JJverse there could have been more than one ship between the NX-01 and NCC-1701. And the fascination with reverse aging is based on the clue that the girl in the opening is suffering from progeria. If Harrison can help, then he can reverse aging.

@147. Ahmed – Yup. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

@150. Red Dead Ryan – I coined “secret sauce” so I doubt it’s gonna be in the script.

Now.. @ boborci:

(Taking a deep breath… here we go…)

I’ve produced nearly 50 half hour television programs aired nationally on the ABC, Fox networks and others (oh, ok… they’re just cheesy infomercials but they pay the rent). I’ve written two books that were translated into more than a dozen languages and hit the bestseller lists in a number of nations around the world (oh, ok… they had nothing to do with tv or scifi). I’ve written 11 feature length screenplays (oh, ok… nobody ever optioned them but I did have a major producer tell me one of them was the best script he’d ever read… but the #$%&er didn’t buy it either). Now that we have that out of the way, I have a short series scifi bible that is a genre shredder which hits the entire triple header (tv, movie, web) unlike any project ever seen before. I KNOW that it’s completely UNprofessional for me to even ask and if you were to agree to this you’d be seen as being open to submissions by every crazed fanboy who can format a script but… would you concede to take a quick peek at it? Guaranteed double your money back if it doesn’t knock your socks off! :)

And if not, I still think that you’re the #1 hyphenate in Hollywood and you rock!

177. BulletInTheFace - January 22, 2013

#83: Yes, April has an English accent in the cartoon. The novels were keeping consistent with that portrayal.

178. PEB - January 22, 2013

@6 You mean like when there was no mention of the NX01 pre-Enterprise or when there was never a mention of Captain Archer? Or when there was never a ship model shown between TOS enterprise and the shuttle Enterprise? I understand the gripe with that but at the same time it’s Star Trek. That’s such a common occurance with the series as a whole. For all we know, the NX01 was refitted/overhauled with April commanding it thus keeping in line with April commanding an Enterprise.

179. Matt - January 22, 2013

177. i remember them thinking about if there was a season 5 the nx-01 was going to go under a retrofit with it looking like a prototype Constitution class vessel.

180. Allen - January 22, 2013

Ugh, Robert April as the former captain of the Enterprise? Not in this universe, buddy. We seen the maiden voyage, I don’t get how he is the former captain! Canon=f*cked

181. boborci - January 22, 2013

179.

Maiden Voyage of Enterprise 1701 depicted in the film..

182. Chuck Norris has no nerves to pinch - January 22, 2013

I love how Bob Orci’s the Trek Fairy on this site. Blink and you’ll miss his presence in these comments!

183. Son of MJ - January 22, 2013

So boborci, does this mean that April is a succesor to Archer as captain of the NX 01? If so thats still pretty darn cool.

184. Anthony Lewis - January 22, 2013

@179

Not really. They never say anything about it being the first ship named Enterprise since the NX-01 just that it was the maiden voyage of that ship.

All of Trek history is normal until the Narada attacks. It is entirely plausible that April was in command of the Enterprise during that time and after the Narada attacked and then vanished perhaps they brought her back home and totally gave the ship an overall to better combat dangers like the Narada.

It’s arrival alters everything.

185. sean - January 22, 2013

#140

Remember that they were in the Katric Ark, I presume by ‘sum knowledge’ they are referring to the katras of previous generations of Vulcans. I believe The Lost Years discussed the idea that they store katras on vaults beneath Vulcan.

186. Anthony Lewis - January 22, 2013

Nevermind. Mr. Orci pwned me in advance.

187. Joe - January 22, 2013

182. April was born in 2195 nearly 30 years after the NX-01 was decommissoned.

188. Killamarshtrek - January 22, 2013

April was captain of ANOTHER ship called Enterprise, not 1701, that’s what boborci is telling us!

189. Jack - January 22, 2013

Fringe was good by the way. I paused the TV about 10 minutes before the end (slightly easier than shorting out my receiver to prevent the final numbers of NASA’s radio code) because I sort of thought it might keep the show from ending.

It’s been a little schmaltzy the last couple of seasons, and this season ooked more filmed-in-Vancouver than the previous Vancouver seasons — but it got away with it all. I like that it stayed about the characters.

190. Picard, Jean-Luc - January 22, 2013

How do we know there wasn’t an Enterprise before the one we saw in the movie and after the NX01? Peter Wellet is Captain Robert April? Maybe!

191. LogicalLeopard - January 22, 2013

180. Well man….I was all ready to jump on 179 and say April could have commanded a shakedown cruise of the 1701. Is that still possible, or are we talking a different Enterprise?

192. jimj - January 22, 2013

Easy, but I haven’t checked the dates. My theory…the timeline changed, but there was an enterprise before it changed (prime universe). April commamded it as it’s first captain. But, once one of you checks the timeline dates, I’m sure that theory gets shot down.

193. Jack - January 22, 2013

I’ll come back to April, promise — but anyone have suggestions for shows to replace Fringe? It’s the only TV show I was watching anymore.

Bob, did you see Zero Dark Thirty?

194. boborci - January 22, 2013

192. I haven’t but I was planning to this weekend. I love good fiction;)

195. porthoses bitch - January 22, 2013

Bob,

Many moons ago you engaged ina debate on this site as to an area of stability and a drain affect surounding a black hole. Will we ever see as to why ?
Joe

196. Spiked Canon - January 22, 2013

oh boborci you’re killin me

197. Max - January 22, 2013

Get ‘em, Bob.

198. Brandon - January 22, 2013

@boborci
Thank you for reinventing Star Trek. I’ve been a fan for so long. Loved every tv show and.. most of the movies :P I was sad to see the franchise die out and what you have done, rebooting the franchise with a streemlined look that still keeps the feel and ideals of Trek alive is incredible. It was a great choice to create a new timeline and not recreate the old one. Perhaps we could see the old one come back someday in the ongoing series. Also thanks for the ongoing series. It’s nice to see a comic book that reinvents old episodes in a new and original way. I look forward to more Star Trek in the years to come. Thank you for bringing back the franchise that I love. TOS actually saved my life fun fact, so I speak directly from the heart when I say I’m glad to see Star Trek again.

199. Jack - January 22, 2013

Cool. Let me know what you think. It’s less “Go team!” than I’d expected. And maybe it’s because we only see the CIA’s side — but there’s never any talk of “what if we captured the guy.”

Fiction? As in, was bin Laden a government employee, like a paid actor? Or maybe he died of natural causes, or is in retirement somewhere?

200. boborci - January 22, 2013

198 Kind words… thank YOU for watching and keeping the torch lit with the rest of us fans.

201. boborci - January 22, 2013

199. Yeah, something like that.

202. boborci - January 22, 2013

196. Spiked Canon

;) Ain’t I a stinker?

203. Son of Sarek - January 22, 2013

So the outline of the ship that resembles nx 01 in the trailer is from a flashback to when April lost the Enterprise nx 01 in a crash landing?

204. NCC-73515 - January 22, 2013

boborci, was Marc Okrand back on board for new Klingon words?

205. Mad Mann - January 22, 2013

So, when does Countdown number 4 come out? I just want to know the name of the Klingon on the cover.

I’m hoping that it’s Kor or Kang!

Oh, BTW, wikipedia states that Zero Dark Thirty is based on actual events, ergo not fiction.

206. mhansen0207 - January 22, 2013

I am losing my mind with anticipation. I cannot WAIT to lay my eyes upon this comic when it’s released tomorrow onto iTunes. I only wish the comic stores near me stocked hard copies.

Hope you get to read this Mr. Orci, but I wanna thank you (and all of J.J.’s team) for not only breathing new life into my favorite franchise (saw the ’09 movie 8 times in theaters), but also I wanna thank you specifically for taking time out of your busy schedule to come on here and chat with us. I appreciate your willingness to communicate and your patience with some of the…well…less friendly members here. I assure you they do not represent all of Trek fandom.

207. boborci - January 22, 2013

205 I think 4 comes out in April.

And if wikipedia says it, it must be true. They can’t even get who works for me right on their page about KO Paper Products. And that’s not a state secret I’m trying to hide.

208. boborci - January 22, 2013

206 mhansen

8 times? THANK YOU!

209. NCC-73515 - January 22, 2013

HA! 9 times here!

210. PaulB - January 22, 2013

#204 “Oh, BTW, wikipedia states that Zero Dark Thirty is based on actual events, ergo not fiction.

Um…you do know that you just cited Wikipedia to a conspiracy nut (Orci), which is like quoting the Bible to an atheist, right? He doesn’t believe the official version, so he’s not likely to give a cr@p what a source like Wikipedia says.

#193/200 – Mr. Orci, are you seriously suggesting that Bin Laden was working for the US gov’t? That 9/11 was an inside job? Seriously, that’s just about stupid enough to make me boycott the next Trek film.

211. boborci - January 22, 2013

Paul B

I am open to wherever the evidence goes. I don’t automatically assume a conspiracy, nor do I automatically beleve the news or the gov. I read all I can before coming to a conclusion.

Before you boycott anything, enjoy this short film.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=yu00AGWQl1g&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dyu00AGWQl1g

212. NCC-73515 - January 22, 2013

If I remember correctly, that was 2009:
6th Preview
7th early evening
8th late evening
1st Weekend with my brother
2nd week with a friend
Weekend after with a friend
3rd weekend with a friend
4t or 5th week with my brother
And later with my date… XD

They showed it recently on a flight from DC to London as well!

213. Mad Mann - January 22, 2013

I was trying to be sarcastic about citing Wikipedia.

Anyway, Zero Dark Thirty, while pro-torture and with the illegally obtained classified information, is still a good movie. Out of the nominees, though, I’m hoping that Silver Lining Playbook wins. That movie rocked my socks.

214. mhansen0207 - January 22, 2013

I intend to outdo my 8 times with Into Darkness. :)

215. Mad Mann - January 22, 2013

Bob, why don’t you just edit the ko paper products entry on wikipedia with the correct info? It’s not hard…

216. porthoses bitch - January 22, 2013

Bin laden Id be more apt to belive in apollo zero on you tube… nothing like a laughable conspiracy….

Bob you might want to check out assassinationscience.com (yes sic)

217. boborci - January 22, 2013

214 mad mann

Rather chat here than waste time correcting them;)

218. boborci - January 22, 2013

213 Oops. Sarcasm hard on internets.

219. NCC-73515 - January 22, 2013

Ah, so the Harrison attacks were actually ordered by UFP President Weller? XD

220. Phil - January 22, 2013

Yeah, I can edit Wikipedia, though rarely do…

221. Desstruxion - January 22, 2013

I wanna see more ships Bob. Any chance of that in the future? Abramsverse Excelsior? Maybe an NX class refit doing mundane stuff? Sleeper ships? I like ships Bob.

222. MJ - January 22, 2013

Zero Dark Thirty, and the book, No Easy Day, were based on two completely different sources (CIA’S POV versus a retired Seal’s POV). I have seen ZDT and read No Easy Day, and it is remarkable how much they are in alignment. They validate each other, No Easy Day validates the Maya/Jen CIA character.

223. Mad Mann - January 22, 2013

216 boborci,

Got it. I’ll just correct wikipedia myself. I’ll put my name in there as your boss.

“Now You See Me” looks like a fun movie. But I always wondered what Louis Leterrier has against webbed ears.

224. Jack - January 22, 2013

Does it promote torture? Not sure. Bigelow argues that depicting isn’t necessarily endorsing — and I agree with her generally. The flick also shows them getting nowhere, and getting false leads with torture.

It’s interesting though, that none of the characters display concern with the torture.

I also think the film does show us good looking, well dressed, clean cut, white torturers who are seemingly doing it for the right reasons, and only because they have a job to do. And it’s just another day at the office… Are the ‘heroes’ in the film more sympathetic than they should be?

225. RobSeverson - January 22, 2013

Bob Orci quotes Bugs Bunny (“ain’t I a stinker?!.”

*checks the sky for falling fire and locusts*

226. David C. Roberson - January 22, 2013

I’ve read them all. Good stuff indeed.

227. JRT! - January 22, 2013

Bob Orci
Will you still be involved with the comic after the movie? I certainly hope so,enjoying them a lot. And is TASM 2 script done now? Yeah,I like Spidey too,lol! Take care.
J-R!

228. Old Geezer - January 22, 2013

Only 8 times? Just joking. I also saw it 8 times in theater and while not admitting to anything, it is the only movie I ever considered pirating. ~~IF~~ I had, I would not feel bad because I made multiple purchases of the movie on blu-ray. One might get lost.

Been a fan since TOS. Spent the first 20 minutes of the reboot thinking, please don’t mess it up… I loved it and am looking forward to the next one. Do not care who the villain is as long as it is a good story!!

229. dmduncan - January 22, 2013

Whoah. That is smokin, man. Me like! Me like!

230. MJ - January 22, 2013

@223. What I took away from the torture was “wow, that is messy and degrading, but thank God these unseen agents fighting this war on our behalf were willing to get down and dirty with these people that wanted nothing more than to kill all of us on 9-11″

Its kind of like when Dirty Harry (original movie) tortures the serial killer creep. You know it is not quite right, but you know it needs to be done.

231. dmduncan - January 22, 2013

Kirk talking to ship’s computer because he lacks companionship? LOL! Love it, Bob. I would love to see ship’s computer as a sexy female avatar for Kirk.

232. Red Dead Ryan - January 22, 2013

I like how the same politicians who accused Obama of leaking classified info to the makers of “Zero Dark Thirty” suddenly turned around and claimed the movie (and the depiction of torture in it) was inaccurate.

Interesting. Somehow, the same politicians who endorsed and justified the torture in the first place have now done a complete one-eighty on the issue.

233. MJ - January 22, 2013

Captain Kirk, the Manti Teo of Starfleet???

234. T'Cal - January 22, 2013

TREKTODAY reports we’re gonna cry. ike’s as good as dead…

235. WaylanderNeo - January 22, 2013

I’m probably guilty of over thinking this; but bare with me for a moment – in the “volume” comics especially episodes such as the “return of the archons” there is a hint of another faction within starfleet at play with a much larger game plan that any revealed far. Of what we have seen they are willing go to great lengths to achieve there aims (re: the Landru project).

From the image of Robert April it looks like he’s part of some sort of uprising, which if thats the case, would be a direct violation of the prime directive. I wonder by helping them, April has then has gone directly against this faction (within starfleet) With John Harrison being an agent of this other faction to reign in April.

Crazy speculation aside (anything to avoid real work) – I’m really looking for to the next batch of countdown and “volume 4″ comics – thoroughly enjoyed them so far – will keep me going till May.

236. T'Cal - January 22, 2013

Make that Pike.

237. Christopher Mulrooney - January 22, 2013

Looking great, I had the first four countdown comics, put it in a big frame to protect them, but now I moved a couple of times can’t find the frame or my comics “( Drat. I will have to start with this set.

238. MJ - January 22, 2013

@231. Yea, the politicians are full of shit. Politicians should just shut their F’ing mouths when it comes to movies. Just like I don’t want to here what in the hell George Clooney’s politics are, I don’t want to hear John McCain’s movie reviews.

239. MJ - January 22, 2013

@233 “TREKTODAY reports we’re gonna cry. Pike’s as good as dead…”

Yep, I predicted Pike’s death in the sequel over a year ago.

240. WaylanderNeo - January 22, 2013

@233 and 238: see odd you should say that, the last couple of frames of “return of the archons” Pike is getting a warning from an unknown person regarding the Landru project and Kirk’s solution to it: the final panel says…. “Keep Kirk in line, no more surprises. Because next time….. I’m holding you personally responsible”

The drama! I wonder if Kirk steps out line again and Pike pays the price for that?

241. mikejohnson731 - January 22, 2013

@234

Any writer is lucky to have readers who pay such close attention.

All I can say is: don’t miss Countdown to Darkness #2.

– Mike J.

242. Basement Blogger - January 22, 2013

I liked the first comic, Countdown better than Star Trek 2009. Why? There’s no doubt the comic was Star Trek. There were big ideas about fear and prejudice. There was also big action. That being said, looking forward to STID and the new prequel comic. Raising the Prime Directive in the first nine minutes has me thinking about it. That’s Star Trek.

243. MJ - January 22, 2013

@240. Mike, in writing the prequel comics, do you know the sequel story? Obviously, if you do, I know you can’t give it away, but I am just curious if for your writing process for the Countdown comics if the studio gives you access to the sequel screenplay, or are you working pretty much in the dark?

BTW, I never had a chance to thank you for mailing me the free comic compendium about 1.5 years ago — THANKS!!!

244. L4YERCAKE - January 22, 2013

Awesome stuff, Mr. Johnson. The art on the ongoing can seem a little hit and miss at times (although it’s mostly great, sorry for the gripe), but the previous countdown and Nero was awesome and this looks just as if not better. Couldn’t be more thriller to see that Captain April is being included, holy cow!!! :)

245. Hugh Hoyland - January 22, 2013

I had a feeling about Pike ever since I saw the funeral sene in the trailer. If thats what it is of course.

246. Pastor CZ - January 22, 2013

Boborci Hi Pastor Charlie Zayas from Puerto Rico, USA

I want to see Riley in future movie and why no Puerto Rican also for future film, consider: Luis Guzman he is the best we got, I’ buy or his movies, if it’s a good movie Guzman is in it, lol, God Bless in the name of Jesus to all…

247. Boborci - January 22, 2013

242. MJ

Mike probably won’t answer, so I’ll answer for him. He knows all!

248. MJ - January 22, 2013

@246. Cool! Thanks

249. boborci - January 22, 2013

245 pastor

Entendido, padre! Workin on it!

250. Sean4000 - January 22, 2013

Bob, it’s so cool that you’re in my town. Forget the other movie stars like Brad Pitt, etc that live/work down here. When Bob Orci rolls in, it’s real! I’ll treat you to lunch! I know a great little Vietnamese restaurant on Veterans Highway.

251. Capes - January 22, 2013

Having collected comics for 30 years all I will say is that anyone who thinks that they are only read by a select few are missing out…..

…..and another thing? Print copy trumps electronic copy Every. Single. Time.
You’ve got to feel the pages and smell the ink. It is all part of the experience…

252. JRT! - January 22, 2013

@boborci-did you read my post at 226? Could you tell me if you will be? Here’s hoping! lol.

J-R!

253. Hugh Hoyland - January 22, 2013

I know one thing, I would love to learn how to draw/write a good comic book. Could be one sure way to get my work/ideas out there. But being 40something maybe I’m late to the game.

As for this they look fantastic and if their like the previous countdown series will be.

254. Doug Haffner - January 22, 2013

These issues have all looked fantastic. When I was very little, I could never understand why the Gold Key Star Trek comics had such poor artwork. The interior of the ship never looked like the show…and it was a disappointment as well as any character other than the crew. With these, the work inside is just as great as the cover(s). Nice work to you all.

Just the opinion of an observer. Oh. Wait. I’m not sure they exist in this timeline.

255. Ahmed - January 22, 2013

@boborci, what other projects, beside “Ender’s Game” that you are working on now or in the near future ?

256. Ensign Dahl - January 22, 2013

Just wanted to say hey to boborci and say thanks for all your work bringing Trek into the 21st century – a great looking refit that keeps the soul intact. Looking forward to the comic and the movie.

Also if you need another editor for the next one I’m sure I can move some stuff around in my schedule for you and JJ.

257. Daniel - January 22, 2013

To Bob:
I am a huge star trek fan, I was raised on it since I was little and I just want to say I LOVED the reboot. It is by far my favorite Star Trek movie not to mention my favorite movie of all time. I’m looking forward to the sequel, Ive been following its progress for the past two years

258. Curious Cadet - January 22, 2013

@86 Killamarshtrek,
“Robert April is in the film, who’s going to bet against it now?!
Apart from Curious Cadet that is!”

You got that right. Nothing has changed for me. I said before April was a possibility, but not very likely given the only verified information we had, which was one thing: a sound file labeled “April Big Gun”.

April is more of a possibility now, but his presence in the comic is absolutely no indication of his presence in the movie. Don’t believe me, ask Prime Geordi and Data from the ST09 Countdown series.

What does seem more likely is my original interpretation that April designed or comissioned the big gun which was named after him, whether he appears in e movie or not.

Weller can’t be April as Orci already said Weller wasn’t playing a role from canon.

John Harrison can’t be April, because he is John Harrison. Moreover, not only is reverse aging just dumb, as well as the plot of the last two of Abram’s epic dissapointments: Alias and Lost, in order for Harrison to be April he would not only have to reverse age, but he would also have to have plastic surgery to mask his identity to call himself John Harrison at all (he was 38 at the time Nero arrived and he would be immediately recognized by anyone in Starfleet).

Otherwise Orci and Abrams are just flat-out lying to us. And if that’s the case, then this is all pointless. Just say anything you want and then do the opposite. There’s no secret big enough in is movie to justify flat out lying, especially when the presumed liars invited us to play in the first place. And I really hope they haven’t.

Hopefully, if April is in the movie at all, he’s played by a cameo actor, or someone else not yet identified. Frankly, the fact they have gone to this much trouble to keep the identities of two major characters secret thus far, telling us who they might be in the first issue of a pre-quel comic still four months out would be the least likely way I would expect them to reveal it.

No April is a setup to the introduction of Harrison. My guess is April will be out of the picture before the movie starts and the general audience will not need to know or care who April was, just like they didn’t need to read the last countdown prequel at all in order to enjoy ST09.

259. David - January 22, 2013

Dear Bob,

I loved the new movie and the comics, when i grew up on reruns of the TOS and watched TNG i loved having a weekly show and a lot of star trek to look forward too. My fear with what u guys have done is make a few comics and 3 great movies and move on, i appreciate everything you have done but for me Star trek works better in the long run as a TV show and long term investment of the characters. Do u know what u want the future to be after this trilogy is completed.

Thanks and keep up the good work,

David

260. Shat-a-tat-tat - January 22, 2013

Ummm… Hmmm… I doubt anybody will read this (I’m never in the top 100), but Bob, outstanding work. I’m a 39 year old TOS guy. It feels weird to say hardcore, but its my childhood thing. Still with me. What you guys have done is absolutely amazing. You have put your feet in a huge pair of shoes. Remarkably, they fit, with room to grow.

ST 2 & 4 are my favorites. You guys/gals are right there for me, and on your first try. Characters are true. Tons of heart. From a lifelong fan, thanks. Honest.

261. dmduncan - January 22, 2013

I was barely involved in all this stuff prior to the last movie. Now…I’m going to buy comics again!

262. MJ - January 22, 2013

Killamarshtrek,

You were right on April all along. I had my doubts, and frankly thought you were half nuts as I was not buying your limited evidence/conjecture. My apologies!

Well done!!!

263. George Lazenby - January 22, 2013

@138 LogicalLeopard

Holy Cow……that comic version of Robert April looks just like Commander Ace Hunter (Barry Bostwick) from the 1982 movie ‘Megaforce’. Seriously lol. Everybody have a look:

Commander Ace Hunter: http://www.badmovies.org/movies/megaforce/megaforce5.jpg

Comic Version Robert April:
http://static.flickr.com/43/88381764_e4fb9f4dbc_m.jpg

264. George Lazenby - January 22, 2013

@262

My bad folks. I put up the wrong link above. Here is the comic version of Robert April compared to Barry Bostwick’s character Commander Ace Hunter. Could it be that Bob Orci and Mike Johnson are fans of Ace Hunter? Sure looks like it lol.

Robert April
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb116/tpresto/Comic_Cropped_3_zps6753cb16.jpg

265. Voniak - January 22, 2013

There is one thing that deeply disturbs me about NuTrek.
Its not that Kirk and Spock are played by new actors (well it does but how otherwise do it, right?)
Its not that it is alternate timeline.
Its not that ENT looks differently and overall apart from general shape it has little resemblance to 60’s Trek (Thank God for it, I cannot imagine they’d have the 60’s look in 2013)

The thing that troubles me is, that the universe is SO UNREALISTIC.
First, we get 3rd year cadet (reprimanded by academy) promoted to Captain of a Federation Flagship within few days. What realistic organization would do that…
Second, we got a bridge crew officer, who sleeps with XO. No issues raised, all seems fine. Again, sorry but this is far from any conceivable behavior by professional organization, such as Starfleet.

This movie is made for kids, and as such the asked for suspension of disbelief is just too much to take it seriously in any way. Its a nice action/sci-fi romp, but apart from that, it is not Star Trek.

266. WaylanderNeo - January 22, 2013

@240 – all I can say in my defence is that it would be your fault for writing such captivating and memorable stuff, thank you Mike for that! Boborci has to share some of the blame however, I seem to recall him eluding that clues to “into darkness” would lie within.

The story along with the artwork has been first class, it has allowed me to enjoy the voyages of the original series all over again – the concept of the “volume” episodes was a work of genius – I would love to know how you came to decide which classic episodes to reimagine. Was this on decided on episodes you and other writers enjoyed or was there a bigger plan at work that ties in with the countdown into darkness and up and coming film itself?

Part 2 can’t come quickly enough :D

267. boborci - January 22, 2013

126. efren

Canon?

i’ve said before that the definition of canon seemed to precede our tenure and it seems wrong to change thatvdefenition, to me, while we are here. It’s like congress giving itself a pay raise.

what I can say is that we have all tried to make everything as consistent as possible with canon (except Delta Vega;)

268. boborci - January 22, 2013

rob severson

Good catch. bugs bunny is one of my heroes!

269. jorDe' Klingon Warrior - January 22, 2013

Bob, I can’t wait to see how the Klingon Warrior is treated.

270. boborci - January 23, 2013

Chris Doohan on this thread, everybody!

271. El Kapitan - January 23, 2013

Hey Bob

So without saying who or when, have you seen any commenter on Trekmovie get close to guessing truths about Into Darkness? Any threads close enough to make you nervous?

– Kirk

272. MJ - January 23, 2013

Did I miss something, or is Bob’s post @269, which is right after post @268, would seem to me to be possibly and indirect hint that Chris Doohan maybe got a guest role in the sequel playing a Klingon?

I realize that Chris did post way back @61 here. But still…Bob likes to provide these types of multiple meaning posts where you have to look at the context for the less obvious meanings.

273. mikejohnson - January 23, 2013

242/246:

The only thing I know is that everyone should keep an eye on this:

http://www.areyouthe1701.com

274. FusionVok - January 23, 2013

Robert April was born in the UK according to a couple Diane Carey books. Is that our tie to London in STID? Cumberbatch is reverse-aged April a la “The Counter Clock Incident” of TAS?

Kirk seems surprised to see Harrison on the Klingon homeworld. Maybe because the last time he saw him he was old? And now he’s young?

Maybe there’s a Khanian twist and STID will lead into movie 3?

Some folks have said the comic Robert April looks like an older George Kirk and I agree. It was also established in the books I mentioned above that GK was April’s tactical officer on the Enterprise. Is there a connection?

275. Killamarshtrek - January 23, 2013

@ 261. MJ

Thanks for that but you don’t need to apologize, it’s all just banter and as ‘Curious’ points out – the game’s not over yet!

Quite frankly, I thought I was nuts, but I reasoned that 2 (now 3) separate pieces of evidence pointing to the same character (however ridiculous that character may seem) was too much of a coincidence not to have substance!

@272. mikejohnson
Nice to see you back here, by the way that signed comic you promised me last year never arrived, thanks for trying anyway!

276. JRT! - January 23, 2013

@boborci
Guess I’ll ask ya again sometime,when you’re less busy,lol! Or,when you have time,check out my post @226 and lmk,yeah?

Just bought issue 1 of Countdown to Darkness,look forward to reading it.

Have fun!

J-R!

277. porthoses bitch - January 23, 2013

Megaforce “Deeds Not Words”……….sort of a GI Joe influenced fighting team (without the royalties or copyrights)……..always wanted to see a sequel -team up with Chuck Norris.

278. crazydaystrom - January 23, 2013

Haven’t read C2D yet but the one panel that I saw, thanks to a link someone provided on this thread (LogicalLeopard I think, thanks) has April stating he was the “former captain of a ship named Enterprise”. *A* ship named Enterprise. I doubt that “*A* ship” as opposed to “*THE* ship named Enterprise” was not deliberate phrasing. If so, we’ll see. It’s all very interesting.

I was not expecting Robert April to be a part of all of this and I still do not think it’s “case closed” that either Cumberbatch OR Weller (or both) is/are April. Considering the secrecy that JJ enjoys, it seems to me unlikely that a major reveal is going to happen in a comic book prequel this far ahead of the film’s release. Obviously I could be wrong but keep in mind JJ has stated, or rather reiterated, recently how much he feels that seeing a film should be like unwrapping a gift that you don’t know what’s inside. So however April plays into the events of STID I don’t think we’ll know that even by the end of the Countdown series. At least not fully.

I AM loving the use of the Robert April character, though, just as I was when he was used in TAS all those years ago. I remember first seeing his name on the list of potential names for Captain of the Enterprise, along with Christopher Pike and others, in ‘The Making of Star Trek’. And if memory serves, April WAS Enterprise captain in early drafts of the original pilot script then when GR changed the captain to Christopher Pike April THEN came to be known as the original captain of the Enterprise in the Star Trek series bible that was being developed by GR to guide the writers. And in do so Roddenberry was giving the Trek Universe the tasty layers and texture that we can pick through, parse, debate about and generaly geek/nerd go crazy over ad infinitum, ad absurdum as we now have for decades. But I digress.

While April is not who I hoped for or expected, I absolutely LOVE how ‘out of left field’ the use of the character is. And THAT is something I love in storytelling and what I want in my Trek. As long as the story is intelligent and thought provoking and engaging of course. Very anxious and anticipating the reveals and surprises to come.

279. PaulB - January 23, 2013

#210 – My comment was at least partly tongue in cheek. No matter my thoughts about conspiracies and 9/11, I’m not about to boycott a movie over that! Especially not this one! :)

280. Copper Based Blood - January 23, 2013

I’m Really Looking forward to receiving my copy of “Countdown To Darkness”

At this stage (4 months to go before the film) I would not look too deeply to how things are drawn in the comic, Yes, although these are to be considered canon to the upcoming film, but, Just because the “Robert April” in the comic does not look like Peter Weller, does not mean that when the film premiers, that Peter Weller is not April. I mean, all the secrecy to protect the film (i.e Wellers Character not been announced yet) why would they now do a major reveal? It don’t make sense. (anyway, my Views “Weller is not April”)

Back to how the comic is drawn. If anyone can remember back the first “Countdown” comic, the artist drew “Kirk” as “Shatner” & not as “Pine”. so they could do the same with how April is drawn.

Anyway, my views on the “Weller” Character, Personally I think “Weller” will have, little more than a cameo in this film, right at the end, when he is revealed to be “Khan” ( The shot of 2 men exiting the Cryo-Stasis storage facility, man on the left, Khan/Weller) & thus set up things for the events of ST3 where Khan/Weller will be the major plot line.

anyway, Can’t wait for the film, Can’t wait for the comic.

281. drumvan - January 23, 2013

i like this thread! it’s exciting!! ;)

282. crazydaystrom - January 23, 2013

I got so long winded with that last post (sorry) that I forgot to to ask-

@Bob Orci-
Will there be a ‘Making Of” book for the sequel. The lack of those kinds of nonfiction books for ST’09 was very disappointing. So many of us love them. And they WILL sell, so if Paramount want of my hard earned money they could get it. Please!

283. JohnnieHF - January 23, 2013

I couldn’t read through every post, but is that “our” Anthony that is Creative Consultant?

284. crazydaystrom - January 23, 2013

That’s *want MORE of my hard earned money*

285. LogicalLeopard - January 23, 2013

262. George Lazenby – January 22, 2013

*LOL* I’ve never heard of that movie, but yes, he does look like him.

Well, the whole problem with this is due to the fact that it’s a comic book drawing of normal quality (meaning that it’s not photorealistic), it looks like ANY grey haired white male with a wide face. So, it’s hard to speculate. Could it be Weller? Could it be Bostwick? It could be anyone! *L* For that case, the picture on this page of Kirk and Spock could be Justin Bieber and the actor who played Vorik on VOY. That’s not a slam against the artist’s work, because I think it’s quite nice. Especially the excellent introduction to April. I wonder how many gasps, yells, and spontaneous activation of bodily functions occured when the people who read this comic without spoilers got to that page. It looks like it’s very well done.

286. LogicalLeopard - January 23, 2013

Hypothesis on April #2:

April, an Engineer of Captain rank, was instrumental in the design of the USS Enterprise 1701. It was also supposed to be awarded to April, but either April’s leanings against the prime directive or direct actions against it resulted in him being removed from consideration for captain, replaced by Pike. April then goes into the private sector, and gets a ship constructed also called Enterprise, which is featured in the movie for use by Weller and/or Cumberbatch.

287. LogicalLeopard - January 23, 2013

264. Voniak – January 22, 2013
The thing that troubles me is, that the universe is SO UNREALISTIC.
First, we get 3rd year cadet (reprimanded by academy) promoted to Captain of a Federation Flagship within few days. What realistic organization would do that…
*************************************

I thought this was a bit hard to take as well. But perhaps Starfleet is more of a meritocracy than a strict, rank based progression system. Perhaps it’s enough to test off the scales, and then save the capital of the Federation and billions of people is enough to put a person in a Captain’s chair.

When you think about it, although it may seem like the most absurd example of rank tomfoolery, it’s hardly the only case. Take Wesley Crusher. Who lets a schoolboy, who’s never been in Starfleet or Starfleet Academy, drive a starship? Picard did. Who appoints rebel pirates as XO, Chief of Engineering? Janeway did. And I know there seemed to be an issue of necessity, but really, why Torres as Chief? Sure, she was the best engineer on the ship, but ability alone make you chief, should it? How about disposition and starfleet experience? Clearly, Janeway didn’t care about that. That makes me think it’s more a question of who is the best rather than strictly who has more experience.

******************************************
Second, we got a bridge crew officer, who sleeps with XO. No issues raised, all seems fine. Again, sorry but this is far from any conceivable behavior by professional organization, such as Starfleet.

****************************************

Liiiike….Deanna Troi? Like April and his wife? At least according to TAS, she was the CMO of the Enterprise when he was captain. This may occur in our military, but from countless prior Trek examples, relationships between the crew, even high ranking officers like the XO, are permitted.

288. SirBroiler - January 23, 2013

Just read the first Countdown via the awesome comiXology app.

I know that comic art is often wonky – and the likeness of real people is often skewed, but I don’t think that depiction of April looks anything like Peter Weller.

Not too much else revealed here. Very interested to see how it all connects to the film.

289. msn1701 - January 23, 2013

Robert April? Old school! Neat.

Poor Uhura. But that is the way of Vulcans sometimes. Hopefully K&S can work out their differences and become friends and a better command team.

290. Gary S. - January 23, 2013

Well they are kissing in the trailer.
I suspect it all works out .

291. LJ - January 23, 2013

@286 I have similar thoughts regarding Starfleet operating as a meritocracy. In fact, Kirk’s promotion to Captain at such a young age didn’t bother me so much: we’ve had even younger captains in the real world (for example Nelson – first command at 19, post-captain at 21, admiral at 39). In fact I’ve often wished to see the famous quote of Admiral John Jervis after Nelson’s actions at Cape St Vincent, “…if ever you commit such a breach of orders, I shall forgive you also” used in relation to Kirk. Maybe a good line for Pike. Obviously Kirk is based upon the fictional character of Hornblower, who is further inspired by the maverick genius captains of the Royal Navy in its heyday: Nelson, Cook, Bligh, et al.

292. Curious Cadet - January 23, 2013

@285 LogicalLeopard,
“April, an Engineer of Captain rank, was instrumental in the design of the USS Enterprise 1701. It was also supposed to be awarded to April, but either April’s leanings against the prime directive or direct actions against it resulted in him being removed from consideration for captain, replaced by Pike. April then goes into the private sector, and gets a ship constructed also called Enterprise, which is featured in the movie for use by Weller and/or Cumberbatch.”

—————————-

I’m with you except that last bit.

In the a prime timeline, April oversaw the construction of the Enterprise in the 2240s and took over as Captain from 2245-2250 (age 50-55). In the Alt timeline the Enterprise was built about 13 years later (April age 63). So it’s possible, it took that extra time to design and incorporate Narada technologies into a ship over twice as big as the original Enterprise.

So April was the Captain in charge of the Enterprise until construction was complete. The ship was “called” Enterprise but it was not commissioned. Therefore he didn’t captain “The” USS Enterprise. The implication is that he was capatain of the same ship Kirk is now, or at least one in direct lineage.

Alternately, he could have been in command of another Starfleet ship “called” Enterprise. It could have been the NX 01, but that is somewhat unrealistic if you consider Kirk’s Enterprise -A was decommissioned after only 7 years. The original Enterprise served for 40 years before being decommissioned, but was completely refit in 2275-ish. So it seems 10 years is about the average age of starships, with the original Enterprise lasting 30 years with a few apparent refits every 10 years or so, perhaps due primarily to mostly peaceful exploration missions. The NX 01 was decommissioned after 10 years, and would be 109 years old by the Enterprise launch in 2258. If you consider there were no less than 4 ships named Enterprise over the next 110 period, it is more likely there was at least one other ship between the NX-01 and the NCC 1701. Maybe they just don’t use the whole, dash A,B,C nomenclature, and April’s Enterprise simply had a different registry number like the various Enterprise aircraft carriers in the US Navy — eg. NCC 170, or 171.

Since April was 38 at the time of Nero’s encursion in 2233, Starfleet could have rushed into production the “first” Enterprise as much as 8 years earlier than the prime timeline, which April did captain. It could have then easily served for 10-20 years during which time it’s gigantic replacement was being designed and built.

I’m less inclined to believe “old whack-job” April was so incensed about not being named Captain of the ship he built that he went out and built his own “Enterprise”. And I definitely do not believe he is Weller, and especially not Cumberbatch (as that would just be a remake of a TAS episode), because that would mean Orci is a big fat liar, and I’m not ready to believe the SC is just flat put lying to us yet.

293. NuFan - January 23, 2013

Now calm down there. Orci is not a big fat liar. And you’re getting a movie that makes radical changes to your precious canon without actually changing it. That’s what new universes are for.

294. Ralph Pinheiro - January 23, 2013

Peter Weller plays Captain April.

295. Ralph Pinheiro - January 23, 2013

Orci said that Weller´s character is not canon.
But, is April canon?

296. Curious Cadet - January 23, 2013

@294 Ralph Pinheiro,

Yes April is canon. Visit StarTrek.com The Database is the official series canon, of which TAS is a part.

Bottom line, if Weller is canon, Orci is a liar.

297. cpelc - January 23, 2013

Did anyone else hope that we were going to get a Bread and Circuses remake when they mentioned the inhabitants were at the level of Rome?

haha – I personally think the new aliens look a little like the ones from District 9

298. Mad Mann - January 23, 2013

@295. Orci has already admitted he lied before. Don’t be surprised.

Anyway, I would think that April is canon.

299. Ralph Pinheiro - January 23, 2013

Orci said:
Benedict Cumberbatch – canon
Alice Eve – canon
Peter Weller – not canon

But he said that he lied about one of these characters.
what if he lied about Weller?

300. Fansincesixtynine - January 23, 2013

April is Peter Weller. Look at the eyes.

301. Moputo Jones - January 23, 2013

I don’t think that Orci is lying if he said that Weller is playing a non-canon character AND he is playing April. Technically, Robert M. April is not a canon character, as Gene Roddenberry himself said that TAS is not canon. He is canon to me since I love TAS, but officially not canon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Animated_Series#Canon_issues

302. Trekkiegal63 - January 23, 2013

#300 Moputo Jones:

Been lurking around this thread just waiting for someone to mention that. ;)

Although, April was considered in the original proposal for Star Trek before they switched to Christopher Pike, he was never actually in TOS. You’re completely right in that the only appearence of April was in the animated series.And it wasn’t just Roddenberry who wrote of the animated series as non-canon, Paramount did, too (although I have no idea if they’ve sense reconsidered their stance on it).

303. Trekkiegal63 - January 23, 2013

*since, not sense… need more coffee

304. Eliasj - January 23, 2013

As long as there are new treks around, I ll hear/read/watch everything about em!

305. Moputo Jones - January 23, 2013

#301

Like I said before, I personally consider TAS canon and I love “The Counter-Clock Incident.” But the fact is, as the Wikipedia article states in the first sentence – TGBOTG “decanonized” TAS.

However, I think that Orci considers TAS canon. Remember that the scene in ST09 where the Vulcan kids are harassing kid Spock is reminiscent of a scene in TAS’ “Yesteryear” that depicts kid Spock being picked on by other kid Vulcans.

So, if Orci does consider TAS canon, then his saying that Weller is playing a non-canon character (if Weller is playing April), may be a lie in his mind.

This is all just complete speculation, of course.

306. BulletInTheFace - January 23, 2013

#301: Roddenberry didn’t write off TAS as non-canon. That was his weasel hack assistant, Richard Arnold. Roddenberry was fine with it. And it was never truly de-canonized, given that both TNG and Enterprise referenced it and Trek2009 contained actual dialog from it (between Spock and Sarek).

307. shazam101 - January 23, 2013

@305 Weasel hack was the truth! Create your job by kissing some serious ass! Berman got rid of him at the first optimal moment when he wasn’t needed! Really, does anyone think that “Yesteryear” wasn’t canon? Dorothy Fontana wrote it. so that is canon to me and probably anyone who loves Trek!

308. Trekkiegal63 - January 23, 2013

#286 LogicalLeopard:

When you think about it, although it may seem like the most absurd example of rank tomfoolery, it’s hardly the only case. Take Wesley Crusher. Who lets a schoolboy, who’s never been in Starfleet or Starfleet Academy, drive a starship? Picard did. Who appoints rebel pirates as XO, Chief of Engineering? Janeway did. And I know there seemed to be an issue of necessity, but really, why Torres as Chief? Sure, she was the best engineer on the ship, but ability alone make you chief, should it? How about disposition and starfleet experience? Clearly, Janeway didn’t care about that. That makes me think it’s more a question of who is the best rather than strictly who has more experience.

If you recall, B’Elanna was made chief engineer because there was a lot of tension between the Maquis crew and the Starfleet crew. Chakotay felt that the only way for the two crews to fully accept each other and concentrate on working towards the combined goal of returning to the Alpha Quadrant was if more than just he from the Maquis crew was in a position of authority. Janeway was exceedingly hesitant to appoint B’Elanna at first and only agreed once Torres had proven herself to be an exceptional engineer by saving the day (sound familiar, lol?).

Besides of which, all promotions Janeway granted to the Maquis crew were merely field promotions anyway, which a commanding officer can do in a time of crises.

I’ll give you Wesley though, there was no logical reason for that at all. I always chalked that up to Picard’s guilt over Jack Crusher’s death.

Liiiike….Deanna Troi? Like April and his wife? At least according to TAS, she was the CMO of the Enterprise when he was captain. This may occur in our military, but from countless prior Trek examples, relationships between the crew, even high ranking officers like the XO, are permitted.

Had to chime in here, sorry, Navy brat born and raised. Not that this matters because Star Trek is fiction and Orci et all can do pretty much anything want regarding a Fraternization policy for StarFleet, but in real life the UCMJ makes allowances for married couples. If you’re married, you can both serve together (which is what Troi and Riker, Dax and Worf, Paris and Torres all did in canon) and it wouldn’t contradict the UCMJ (although I still have issues with the token romance aspect of it all ;)).

309. shazam101 - January 23, 2013

I bought Countdown into Darkness! Very good book, great story, except with Spock harping on the Prime Directive, but I know this is a big point in the new movie, so let’s see how this plays out!

310. MJ - January 23, 2013

@300 “I don’t think that Orci is lying if he said that Weller is playing a non-canon character AND he is playing April. Technically, Robert M. April is not a canon character, as Gene Roddenberry himself said that TAS is not canon. He is canon to me since I love TAS, but officially not canon.”

EXACTLY, although Orci is kind of using a “lawyers trick” on us if this is his defense of that statement he made. :-)

311. Trekkiegal63 - January 23, 2013

#305:

http://web.archive.org/web/20100628174255/http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/help/faqs/faq/676.html

312. Trekkiegal63 - January 23, 2013

#305:

Also, to your argument that they made references in TNG to the animated series:

“Do you think the Animated series should be considered canon? Or even more so, IS the Animated Series canon?” “We don’t consider it canon, but it’s kinda cool to throw in the odd reference here and there.” – Ronald D. Moore, AOL’s “Ask Ron D. Moore” message board, October 1998.

Don’t get me wrong, I like the animated series. Own the boxset, in fact. BUT, technically, arguments can be made (and have been, for YEARS) that the animated series is not, in fact, canon.

313. Gary - January 23, 2013

I was one of the first to jump on the April bandwagon and so far it looks like I was correct. One other theory, April may not have been de-aged but metamorphosized to look not only young but different as well.

314. Jack - January 23, 2013

Man, I wish comics were longer.

315. NCC-73515 - January 23, 2013

Oh oh ooooh “It’s up to the brave crew of the U.S.S. Enterprise to hunt down those responsible to bring them to justice.”
Sounds like Bush alright!
Also, Harrison is called an ‘entity’…

316. Killamarshtrek - January 23, 2013

Perhaps April has been ‘regenerated’ using some kind of early ‘Genesis’ technology? We’ve already been told that Carol Marcus’s technical knowledge is crucial to the plot.

317. Phil - January 23, 2013

@291. And from a practical aspect, just how, exactly, would a private citizen go out and build any starship? I’m assuming that access to weapons, antimatter, and any number of other technologies would be controlled in some form or another. Assuming a replicator could spit out a starship, wouldn’t someone notice that a few million tons of inert matter for the replicator went missing? Then you need to find a crew, supplies, and someplace to park a very large vessel? Yeah, it’s a pet peeve, that starships with planet destroying capabilities seem to be lying around everywhere, with the keys left in the ignition….

318. drumvan - January 23, 2013

@291. And from a practical aspect, just how, exactly, would a private citizen go out and build any starship?
_____________________________________________________

maybe he ran across future geordi la forge. as we know from the 09 countdown series, geordi has left starfleet and started his own ship design business. the “jellyfish” was pretty darn impressive! how could geordi resist building a ship for the former captain of the enterprise.

319. MJ - January 23, 2013

@317. Maybe he got the Klingons to help him out.

320. Jemini - January 23, 2013

1: I read them ^^
I don’t think we’re forced to read the comics to understand the movies but it surely is nice for some of us to have them to read.
I get different opinions about things. What I don’t get is people assuming that just because they don’t like something then the rest of the world surely thinks the same.

(* tbh, when I read your comments I sometimes wonder if you’re boborci – or one of the other writers – playing the hater just to see if the fans will come out from lurkerdom to defend them lol . not saying just saying *)

………………………………………………………………..

I haven’t read this issue yet so I’ll just comment the preview.
I, for one, think that the more they make me see this as their own trek, the better. For that purpose, it’s things like the S/U relationship along with Spock own subplot with him still grieving about vulcan that keep me interested the most and make me recognize this series as part of the reboot (aka the new thing not the old one that I already know – and like but I’m here for the new thing)
Spock’s PTSD had been hinted through the comics, this issue explicitly showed that but Uhura had noticed it in previous issues and it’s good that one of the characters, in this instance her, had noticed this because in a way it helps us to remind what happened to him and don’t make the same mistakes that the other characters may do there and think that he’s being just a logical vulcan unaffected by everything when he obviously isn’t. She is the one character who will notice things because she knows him more than the others and as his significant other she’s allowed to make questions and try to help him.. but just like in real life when people are depressed they may run away from the ones that they’re the most close to because with strangers it’s easier to pretend that everything is fine …
I get the feeling that he’s even more an outsider now. I mean, if he has troubles with the person he’s the most comfortable with, how can he bond with the rest of the crew now?

321. Robman007 - January 23, 2013

Who’s to say that the Enterprise in the new films is not a refit of the Original Enterprise? The original enterprise was an older ship when Kirk took command in the original series.

I’d say that April was the commanding officer in charge of the Enterprise during it’s trial runs, after that the original CO was supposed to be Pike, but ended up being Kirk.

322. Phil Baiden - January 23, 2013

Robert April, Commander of “a” ship called Enterprise?

Commander of a ship called Enterprise in another timeline, perhaps?

323. Skulltrail - January 23, 2013

Yes, I had the same thought but for the reason that they use the Tricorder model as used in TOS.

http://www.lcars.org.uk/tech/tos-tricorders.jpg

But they also could have used it upto they developed new models caused by the Narada Incident!

324. saavik001 - January 23, 2013

http://www.superherohype.com/news/articles/174601-star-trek-into-darkness-comic-book-prequel-reveals-a-surprise-character

First Image of Robert April

325. Craiger - January 23, 2013

I forgot are the Countdown Comics Canon? I thought JJ likes to make the Star Trek movies so they don’t have to have seen any other type of Star Trek series, TV, Movies or Comics? Would the general audience still be able to follow the sequel without having read this comic? Didn’t they say no time travel in the sequel?

Also Pike said the Enterprise was brand new to Spock and wanted him to be careful with it. An Enterprise refit wouldn’t be brand new would it?

326. PEB - January 23, 2013

@324 I think it was Orci who said they’re cannon, the Countdown series and the ongoing series as well. I think the reason behind that is because you’ve got one half of the writing team who has a hand in the comics so it lines up with what’s on film. I’ve been collecting the ongoing series and I just picked up Countdown to Darkness #1 and it all works with what we’ve seen in the last film and what we’ve been teased for the next. I liked Countdown #1 WAY more than I thought I was going to.

Just to throw my suspicions into the mix, April says he was captain of a ship called Enterprise…I’m taking it as maybe the refitted NX01 type ship. Possibly…the ship you see crashing into the ocean in the Into Darkness trailer…?

327. Craiger - January 23, 2013

#320 – I forgot we see the Enterprise being built from scratch in Iowa.

I guess with this being a new timeline and new canon they wouldn’t have to stick to the six Enterprise’s after the NX-01. Some people say the NX-01 wasn’t a Federation Starship Enterprise and that is how B&B got away with that.

328. Craiger - January 23, 2013

PEB – Good point! It does kind of look like an updated NX-01. Maybe April bought that Enterprise? I wonder if any person in the future can by a used Starship? We don’t know if in the new Universe how the money system works. Maybe its different than TOS/TNG’s credit system?

329. Nony - January 23, 2013

Something is going on with Sulu, and has been through the comics, and I think whatever it is is going to come into play soon.

330. Skulltrail - January 23, 2013

Maybe Sulu is a member of Section 31?!

331. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 23, 2013

#106 – Hey, Jack. Thank you for the tip.

I have just been talking to a nice guy called Jeremy of Gotham Comics, *Onehunga, Auckland, NZ. He does get the new Star Trek Countdown and Ongoing series. He hopes to have the first of the Countdown into Darkness comic in a week or fortnight, depending on airline flights. He did not have any comics from the Ongoing series, single or volume. They were sold out. He can order them though. However, he had, in his hand, at the time of talking to me on the phone, one copy only, of the volume of the mini-series of comics that preceded the last Star Trek movie, about Nero etc.

The cost of one comic will NZ$9.90, whereas in the USA the most people will pay is US$3.99. Even if ordered through Amazon.com, the cost will be much the same as Amazon generally does not charge for postage/shipping/handling for customers inside the US. I do get charged. Last time I ordered Volume 1 of the Ongoing Series, the shipping etc costs were more than the comic book was. The Countdown mini-series volume that precedes the first Star Trek film costs NZ$44.40.

To get Trek stuff, if living in NZ, largely depends on availability (difficult at times), knowing where to get if/when something is available and also being a bit more financially solvent than Trek fans in the US. Whether something is bought retail here or ordered and imported, it costs us more, sometimes a lot more.

Despite what I wrote above, I am pretty chuffed that I have found a local supplier of these comics. The other aspect is that this shop is not far from where we used lived, literally walking distance – Onehunga. We moved from Onehunga in October 1996 and Gotham Comics opened their doors in 1997. I hope to go there today…

332. Skulltrail - January 23, 2013

Did anyone thought that the rings of Phaedus could have this deaging effect or maybe the effect of enhanced physical abilities?! Like in Insurrection!? And the plot with klingons could that they would also like to have the advantage of Phaedus! Maybe the Federation forbids April the use of it in order of the violation of the Prime directive but April want to use it for his sick wife! In case of this he could be pissed of the UFP because he would do everything for his family

333. Dilithium_doublebock - January 23, 2013

Bob Orci

Is there a plot connection between the countdown comics and the soon to be released game?

334. Trekkiegal63 - January 23, 2013

#319:

On the subject of PTSD and use of the token romance to emphasize it… I disagree. Oh, I agree that an intervention needs to be staged and someone needs to notice, but I disagree that it takes a “romantic” partner to do it. It would still work, i.e. Uhura noticing Spock withdrawing into himself, if she were a close friend of his. Basically, I think you’re confusing your, personal, love of the Spock/Uhura ‘ship’ with the need for dramatic irony (i.e. the audience being aware that there is an issue on the horizon that the protagonist is not, currently, aware of). One of my issues with the token romance (other than the implication that a woman can’t be interesting on her own) is that it devalues the important of other relationships, i.e. friends and family. If Spock is indeed experiencing PTSD it is important to his recovery that he build a support network with friends and family, in fact, the Mayo Clinic (www.mayoclinic.com) lists the lack of a such a support network as a risk for PTSD:

Risk factors
By Mayo Clinic staff
People of all ages can have post-traumatic stress disorder. However, some factors may make you more likely to develop PTSD after a traumatic event, including:
• Being female
• Experiencing intense or long-lasting trauma
• Having experienced other trauma earlier in life
• Having other mental health problems, such as anxiety or depression
Lacking a good support system of family and friends
• Having first-degree relatives with mental health problems, including PTSD
• Having first-degree relatives with depression
• Having been abused or neglected as a child

Actually, I think the LAST thing Spock would need right now is a romantic relationship. If his trauma is so severe to cause chronic nightmares and him placing himself in dangerous situations, as indicated in the trailer, he needs to be focusing on recovery, not maintaining a love life.

335. PEB - January 23, 2013

Craiger- Well remember, (and I know it wasnt cannon but still) in Ashes of Eden, another civilzation bought the decommissoned Enterprise A. Now I’m sure that was a bad example to use but in the Countdown to Darkness comic [SPOILER ALERT] the race of people who have advanced tech were given the tricorder and weapons technology from April who I’m guessing is looked at as some type of leader. It makes you wonder what happened to Captain April? Dude seriously looked worse for wear but he still had his captain’s tunic and…oh my god he’s kind of like Garth of Izar for this new universe! Sorry I just put that together. So it makes you wonder why a former Starfleet captain of an Enterprise no less, would aparently take up with that species and give them technology in turn breaking with the Prime Directive. So many questions and so many possibilities with where the new movie is going.

336. porthoses bitch - January 23, 2013

Many (ok Im old) years ago Marvel comics produced a Planet of the Apes magazine admist articales and original series comics were 5 part original movie adaptations….one reader wrote in asking if the artist (george tuska) could maybe draw Taylor looking a bit more like Charlton Heston. Marvel replied that they had the rights to the stories and charactesrs but not thier likenesses…….interesting……as a result Taylor ended up looking like he could kick most of the gorillas asses. Wonder if this still holds true ..? One of my gripes with IDW is that some many illustrations look like they’ve been photoshopped. ( as in copied from photos). This resulted in the Dr Who crossover bein a bit of aa mess.

337. PEB - January 23, 2013

@328 That’s what I thought too! He was a little too eager to go on that away mission only to be knocked ou without there being something more covert about it all. Unless it’s just a plot point to show Kirk and his growth or lack of growth in terms of being a leader and puting crew into harms way.

338. Craiger - January 23, 2013

PEB – What if that Alien race has regenerative powers and makes April young and strong and he seeks revenge on Starfleet and its policies?

339. Flake - January 23, 2013

Ok I bought the comic on ipad and its great!

Now then…

If Enterprise NX-01 appears onscreen during STiD I will most definitely squeal like a girl in the cinema or whoop or something. Make it so please ! ! That would be awesome, though some folks in the cinema will wonder wtf is going on ;)

Also I want to see space dock from trek 3,4,6 on screen as well, throw us long time fans some nods from the past !!

340. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 23, 2013

How is the Spock/Uhura relationship a token romance? What the hell is a “token” romance? How do you define “family and friends”? Are not Spock and Uhura friends? Does a relationship suddenly not be “romantic” when the couple formalize the relationship through a contract like marriage? Should soldiers and others suffering from PSTD stop being with girlfriends/wives/husbands/boyfriends because the romantic aspect might interfere with their recovery?

What about person suffering from PSTD who is in a bad/unhappy marriage, especially where there are children? The spouse and children would constitute family, but if the relationship between the sufferer and wife/husband is not good, how can that help recovery, anymore than Uhura/Spock’s “token romance” not help in Spock’s recovery?

The Mayo Clinic stipulates the need for the support of family and friends. Yes, and that is what Uhura is trying to provide for Spock – support and friendship. What about those of Spock’s family who remain? Where are they? Chances are that he is pushing them away as well, if there is even anyone capable of providing support.

Perhaps Uhura is the only one who is at all close to him and you are saying that Spock and she needs to separate because of their “token romance” where intimate (sexual) love may be part of that relationship. Right now, she may be the only *real family* Spock has. It appears that in this timeline, the relationship between Kirk and Spock has not yet developed sufficiently enough for both Kirk and Spock to feel any real sense of brotherhood. Even if such a bond was there between Spock and Kirk, that should not negate the unique relationship/bond that Spock/Uhura have developed.

341. mikejohnson - January 23, 2013

@ 313

So do I.

342. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - January 23, 2013

@333 – your take on the S/U rationship sems to be that Uhura does not fit into the category of family/friends and therefore Spock’s relationship with her is counterproductive in dealing with PTSD. It seems to me that Uhura is certainly a ‘friend’, and possibly even ‘family’. The Star Trek Ongoing comics dealing with the re-imagined Galileo 7 story seem to offer a clue that Spock and Uhura have a bond (she can find him when the others searching cannot), and Zoe Saldana is on record as saying that whether Spock and Uhura are together or not (by the end of the movie) remains to be seen but they are bonded forever. I’d say ‘parted from me and never parted’ constitutes family… And yes, I am definitely pro S/U. I have also been a Trekkie (don’t answer to the term Trekker) since 1966.

343. Jeffries Tuber - January 23, 2013

Looks like Sulu took the bait and is probably spying. Could be they’re setting up one of those ‘Red October’ standoff situations in STID, with Sulu suddenly pointing his phaser in an unexpected direction at a critical moment.

344. porthoses bitch - January 23, 2013

Just a question…..

What’s the general feeling regarding a cliffhanger ending for STID ?… imagine waiting 4 years for BOBW part II?

345. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - January 23, 2013

@339 – Yes, you put it far more eloquently than I could.

346. Phil - January 23, 2013

343. Wont happen. No one would care four years apart, and if they were going to crank out part two right away they would have to be working on story and script now.

347. PEB - January 23, 2013

@343 I suspect, if Khan isn’t in it, the cliffhanger will be his reveal in some shape or form. When I think about it, there’s no REAL reason for anybody to assume Khan is in ITD or the next one, but my Spidey sense is telling me otherwise. If that’s the cliffhanger then I’m cool with it. And while some might hate for me to bring it up, if it’s anything close to the type of cliffhanger in Empire then I’m okay with that too. I dont want a LOTR style cliffhanger or Pirates 2 type cliffhanger that literally drops off right after a HUGE surprise or plot point occurs. Sure it’ll bring audiences into a salivating frenzy and would create SO much buzz around it but I dont think my Trekkie heart could take the wait.

348. The Sinfonian - January 23, 2013

Just remember, every system has a Delta Vega: it’s where you change (delta) your VElocity back to GAlilean out of warp. Any system with a lot of warp traffic has a designated planetoid or planet that is used to exchange velocity with, in the same way NASA uses Jupiter gravity-assist to accelerate or decelerate probes into the outer solar system. In 2258, saying “Delta Vega” is in context of what system you’re in. There’s a Delta Vega Vulcan, and a Delta Vega Andor, and so on.

Everything is consistent, after all!

349. Trekkiegal63 - January 23, 2013

#339: I discussed the Token Romance on a different thread.

But, to sum up, tvtropes.org, defines them as this (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TokenRomance):

When a romantic subplot is tacked onto a work with little relation to the overall story. Especially blatant when the setting or premise of the plot leaves little room for romance, such as after the Apocalypse or in the land of racing cars and guns.

And has this to say about ST2009, in particular (copied and pasted from tvtropes.org):

In the rebooted Star Trek film, Spock and Uhura’s romance could be removed and it’s loss wouldn’t affect the plot at all.

As the mother of a teenage daughter and as a woman, myself, particularly in light of the statistics found by seejane.org (Geena Davis’ Institute on Gender in the Media) I find the use of the token romance in nearly every single film released in this day and age to be sexist. Because it implies that a woman, no matter how educated, well-rounded and compassionate, can’t be interesting to viewers without making her one half of a romantic pairing.

One author, who attended school for script writing, was told by her professors, that the token romance, and the reason so few films pass the Bechdel Test (measures the presence of women in film with three simple criteria: a movie must 1. have more than one woman 2. who talk to each other 3. about something other than a man) is intentional as women just aren’t interesting on their own (http://thehathorlegacy.com/why-film-schools-teach-screenwriters-not-to-pass-the-bechdel-test/).

I wrote an essay on this topic here: http://www.booksie.com/editorial_and_opinion/essay/julie1963/little-girl-under-fire

I am exceedingly passionate about it. The essay includes statistics from seejane.org that will horrify you.

And before you come down on me like a bolt of lightning, I am in no way saying that ST2009 was a bad film. I loved it. Saw it numerous times in the theatre. But the token romance is one aspect I cannot, and will not, enjoy because its forces unfortunate implications on the psyche of young girls (i.e. they can be educated, well-rounded, compassionate and amazing, but the biggest necessity in life is finding that cool boyfriend).

And, now as I step down from my soapbox, just remember, you did ask. ;)

350. Dom - January 23, 2013

Maybe April commanded the ‘unnamed Enterprise’ (which was more like the TV show one!) the same as in the novel Final Frontier, only this time he didn’t have George Kirk with him – the book takes place when Jim is a young boy.

It was George who chose the name ‘Enterprise’ in the book, of course. And maybe that ‘Enterprise’ didn’t survive its encounter with the Romulans, meaning the great Federation diplomat Cale Sandorson was also never ‘created!’

Must read the book again: it’s got to be 25 years or more since I read and enjoyed it!

351. Craiger - January 23, 2013

Everyone forgets Spock didn’t do the Kholinar yet in the new timeline and didn’t purge all emotions. In the Cage Spock smiled on that planet they were on.

352. Trekkiegal63 - January 23, 2013

341: I should have clarified. I am not saying Uhura can’t be both a friend and a lover to Spock. I am saying that Spock needs a ‘network’, as in more than one person. One person assisting with recovery is co-dependency, which is never a good thing psychologically. Spock needs a circle, consider it group therapy, if you will.

I also don’t believe that ‘romance’ is necessary to indicate a psychological issue. It’s used here merely as a justification for a pairing.

Furthermore, I mentioned earlier that I grew up with a parent in the Navy. My father was a career officer. And my mother, and my brother and I would often attend a class whenever my father returned from a tour of duty educating us on how to deal with an officer returning after such an extended time away. One of the fundemental components of this class was approach. Do not crowd him, do not pester with countless questions, let him come to you if he wants to talk about it, let him be the one to initiate contact. Basically, a soldier, especially one experiencing PTSD needs an ‘adjustment’ period for lack of a better term. That adjustment period is for them, something essential to their mental well-being.

Also, there is an adage: you have to learn to love yourself before you can learn to love another. Spock shouldn’t be in a romantic relationship right now, Spock should be focusing on Spock.

But, to be fair, and these issues aside, there is pretty much no way I’ll ever find the Spock/Uhura romance acceptable, because I see it as part of a larger issue in Hollywood. A very gender biased issue.

353. Dom - January 23, 2013

348. Trekkiegal63

I simply took it that Spock has a girlfriend. I would consider a ‘token romance’ to be one that develops out of nowhere between two characters during the film’s events.

In ST09, Spock and Uhura’s relationship is established as already existing before the events of the film – there are even hints going back to Charlie X in the TV show. Presumably that’s why Uhura’s roommate regularly has men back to their shared dormroom – Uhura was staying at Spock’s place.

And Uhura talks casually to her roommate about overhearing the destruction of a Klingon fleet ***before*** discovering Kirk, so that wasn’t chat about men: it was girls talking bout their day at work.

Also, Spock’s ‘emotional impairment’ is mirrored in his and his father’s relationships. Sarek loved Amanda and was openly married to her, but claimed it was one of convenience. Spock, meanwhile, loves Uhura and is afraid to admit it, so they keep quiet about it. Amanda’s death makes Sarek admit his love for his wife, leading Uhura and Spock finally to show their feelings for one another in public on the transporter pad.

So Bechtel test passed. ;)

There’s a lot more to ST09 than people give it credit for. And really, these media gender studies things are a load of old toss created by peculiar ivory tower academics trying to hold on to their tenure. I put up with them through film school the girls were as contemptuous of them as the boys!

354. PEB - January 23, 2013

Craiger -Good point! I was watching my bluray copy of TOS season one and Spock does a lot more shouting statuses on the bridge. And in the first 2 episodes I believe he smiles and is much more human in nature. Nimoy never acted as if Spock didnt have emotions, but just hid them as much as he could. There’s that moment at the end of an episode of a later season when he walks into sickbay and sees Kirk after thinking he’d killed him. The exclamation “Jim!” with the huge smile on his face before calming himself down -THAT’S SPOCK. And that’s as cannon as you can get. I dont know why people feel that a pre-Kholinar Spock who has lost Vulcan and lost his human half (his mother) wouldnt have a difficult time reining in his emotions.
I also feel a little sad for the people who dont understand the S/U relationship or call it a throw-away or token relationship. There are layers to it and it was the moment in the turbolift where you saw what the relationship meant to both people. I do see it as a situation where she probably loves him much more than he loves her but nevertheless he DOES love her and relies on her on a much more intimate/spiritual (for lack of a better word) level. She also, from a writer’s view, seems to be an emotional extension for him. Too many people see it on the surface and try to characterize the relationship as Uhura being the little school girl who is goo-goo eyed for the older wiser stone-faced Spock. There’s even the tender moment on the transporter pad where his entire tone changes when addressing her vs his usual tone when speaking to any other character. That alone reveals the nature of their relationship as not something that was just thrown in there for giggles.

355. porthoses bitch - January 23, 2013

STTMP Spock never sheds all emotion…..” he will not achieve his goal with us…his answer lies elsewhere. ” and at the end of the film ” my task on Vulcan is completed”

The idea of Spock being emotionless is strictly a ccreation of the media. It all lies in the interpetation. No matter what Spock says we know better.

356. Star Wars Prequel fan - January 23, 2013

@333 Trekkiegal63

Spock/Uhura was never a Token..if you would care to do any research.

In case you don’t know but when they were writing the first film JJ and his crew wrote a romance between Spock/Chapel but scraped it and wrote one between Spock/Uhura because The character of Uhura was a female lead and was meant to be on the bridge with the guys.

Sometime it is best not to follow the original source material when you are trying to remake a film to a whole new audience.

I am guessing you haven’t watch Nolan’s batman film series. At least Uhura existed in TOS unlike Rachel Dawes who does not even exist in the DC main universe, talk less of having a romance with Bruce/Batman himself.

I also don’t think you should be watching trek at all, you seem to have an obsessive deslike for the Spock been with Uhura in an alternate reality…An alternate reality that is one of many in the Trek universe.so there are millions of Spock’s out there…right?

I get the anger from the K/S fans and especially the Spock/Chapel fans but at least their reasons are not smoke and mirrors unlike yours.

last I saw, it is not the original Spock who has a romantic relationship, it’s like saying Robert downey jnr’s iron man is the same one from the 1960’s original comic source material.

When I read the Iron Man comics before the 2008 film, The Original Tony Stark and Pepper Potts never had a real relationship but mysteriously they are a couple in the Marvel films same goes for Thor and Jane from the 2011 film.

And I see you use the word token?

More proof you should not be watching star trek.

One of the most importance purposes of trek was to erase the culture of Tokenism,

Gene Rod’s star trek was supposed to be colour blind. Not even Flash Gordon, the first ever space adventure franchise achieved that.

If NuSpock was with a white girl am sure you won’t used the word Token or dwell on it so much.

Last I checked star trek again, there were many multiracial couples in its 46 years history, in fact make that inter-species couples. Spock is a product of one himself. The sick girl in the 9 minutes preview of the new film has a black father and perhaps a Hispanic/white mum, There is also Wolf and Deanna Troi from TNG and O’brian and his Asian wife(can’t remember her name) from deep space nine. Georgdi from TNG once dated a white girl who broke up with him after a few dates.

Gene Rod made trek very colour blind, I find it shameful that you used the word token to describe one of his characters purposes especially in year 2013.

I don’t see star wars fans saying that George Lucas getting hitched to a rich well spoken African American girlfriend is a Token.

Star trek is supposed to represent our future….

Star wars is a galaxy from a long time ago and yet…Yet we Star Wars fans get it…..AGAIN.

357. Giez - January 23, 2013

Interesting that in the new Paramount description to buy the movie poster, it refers to BC as a “mysterious, malevolent force” and “seemingly unstoppable entity “….

See at TrekWeb or startrek.com

Not human? Or… ?? Bob Orci??

Twitter @TheGiez

358. Trekkiegal63 - January 23, 2013

355: And the red herrings start. Good lord. First off, before you imply racism you should check who it is you are addressing, as I, myself am a minority, married to a minority (of a different ethnicity than my own) so your attempts to argue against my stance using the race card hold NO water. It does not matter to me what ethnicity Uhura is, my views on gender discrimination remain the same.

So let me be entirely frank: I am against female sexualization and objectificaiton for ALL women, no matter their ethnicity. Clear enough for you? Good. Moving on…

Secondly, your attempts to attack me, the person, instead of my actual argument against the token romance are juvenile at best, and ignorant at worst. Also, nothing you said refutes my original point.

Thirdly, you have no authority to tell me what I should and shouldn’t be watching. I am approaching my 50th birthday. Star Trek TOS started airing when I was three years old. My family and I watched it together as a bonding activity and I’ve been a fan ever since. I own all seasons of TOS, TNG, VOY and DS9 on boxset. I own all of the movies, including ST2009. I have been a fan for well over forty years. I know my Trek, you want to argue with me on what is and isn’t canon? Bring it!

Conclusion: You are a shipper. One who does not like anyone having a differing opinion on your pairing of choice. So what you do when you encounter this differing perspective? You lash out. The narcissism and entitlement you are displaying here is exceedingly distressing (just to be clear it is your behavior and not you as a person I am disapproving of right now). In other words, do try to keep the argument about Trek without casting aspersions on the character of the person you’re arguing against, hmm? I can now easily, easily see why J.K. Rowling refers to shipping as “scary and vehement cyber gang warfare”.

Also, you do not, and will not, intimidate me.

359. Trekkiegal63 - January 23, 2013

Ooops, the above was meant for 358, not 355. I have a different response for 355…

360. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - January 23, 2013

@351 Trekkiegal63

I won’t argue the S/U romance with you as we are, as you note, on opposite sides of the fence on this. And that’s OK – IDIC and all that.

However, I would say that I agree with you that Spock needs a network to help him deal with PTSD. Unfortunately, Spock is (half) Vulcan and at this stage of his life probably only has a support network of 1 or 2 people. Vulcans don’t form friendships quickly or easily: his relationship with his father may (or may not) be thawing; he may be (or have been) close to Pike; it’s still too early (probably) to say he and Kirk are friends (although hopefully they are moving in that direction). Remember we are apparently still only a few months after the destruction of Vulcan. That leaves Uhura and any psychologist he may or may not be seeing (who may or may not have training/experience in dealing with Vulcans). Also, he identifies as Vulcan so he will be attempting Vulcan coping mechanisms: ruthless suppression of troublesome emotions. Hopefully, assuming Spock survives STID, his support nework will have grown considerably by the end of the movie, and he comes out of it less psychologically damaged than he went into it.

361. Phil - January 23, 2013

RE: Spock/Uhura – what was established in Trek09 between Spock, an instructor, and Uhura, a cadet, was fraternization, in an education setting it is considered an abuse of authority. To the extent it was used by the filmmakers to create familiarity between a pair of characters, yes, it was a token relationship. The film would not have suffered if the relationship did not exist. Nevertheless, it’s there now, so as long as Spock isn’t making command decisions to avoid getting his squeeze upset it should work just fine. If he needs to order her to her death to save the ship, I’d expect him to do it without batting a logical eye. Of course, she’s a red shirt, so it should not be unexpected….

362. Phil - January 23, 2013

Oh, and lets get over the idea that TOS was not sexist. Rands sole job on that ship was to be held by the captain during some overly dramatic moment, and to fetch coffee. Women shown in most positions of power were depicted as a bit cold or bitchy….

363. Phil - January 23, 2013

@358. Be gentle with 355. I suspect language may be an issue here, the post reads like it was run through Google translate….

364. Trekkiegal63 - January 23, 2013

355: You are, very clearly, a guy. Because the privilege exuding from your post is stunning, and not in a good way. I’m referring mostly, of course, to this:

There’s a lot more to ST09 than people give it credit for. And really, these media gender studies things are a load of old toss created by peculiar ivory tower academics trying to hold on to their tenure.

Firstly, statistics from seejane.org:

Traditional domestic roles are still gender linked in entertainment, but only in certain media and on
certain indicators. In family films, females are more likely than males to be portrayed as parents (56%
vs. 44.1%) and depicted in a committed romantic relationship (65.7% vs. 54.1%). In children’s shows,
only parental status varies by gender (females=60% vs. males=29.3%).

Males outnumber females 3 to 1 in family films. In contrast, females comprise just over 50% of the
population in the United States. Even more staggering is the fact that this ratio, as seen in family
films, is the same as it was in 1946.

Females are almost four times as likely as males to be shown in sexy attire. Further, females are
nearly twice as likely as males to be shown with a diminutive waistline. Generally unrealistic figures
are more likely to be seen on females than males.

Females are also underrepresented behind the camera. Across 1,565 content creators, only 7% of
directors, 13% of writers, and 20% of producers are female. This translates to 4.8 males working
behind-the-scenes to every one female.

From 2006 to 2009, not one female character was depicted in G-rated family films in the field of
medical science, as a business leader, in law, or politics. In these films, 80.5% of all working
characters are male and 19.5% are female, which is a contrast to real world statistics, where women comprise 50% of the workforce.

You’ll forgive me if I don’t take just your word for it that these numbers are inaccurate. If these stats are wrong, show me. I want a legitimate source, not from you, or someone you know, but an official organization whose job it is to similar such data. I will quote, again, for the second time, my source: seejane.org. Any one of you can click on that link and confirm it yourself.

Secondly, I have serious doubts you can refute those states, and you know why? I have eyes. In recent years almost every single film, from Captain America to Star Trek 2009 has included a romance subplot. Women are never portrayed as single. Never. I can think of only two off the top of my head. Pixar’s “Brave” and “Alien/Aliens”. I take that back, I can think of one more my husband and I watched recently. “The Raid”. ‘Course it had English subtitles so it wasn’t exactly a Hollywood produced film.

Thirdly, I have watched TOS many, many times. I own all three seasons on DVD. Before DVD was invented I had them on VHS. And before VHS I watched them on TV. I was fortunate enough to see it when it originally aired. Not once, in all of my many, many viewings, did I EVER get hints of a romance between Spock/Uhura. But if I were looking for it and in possession of a shipper agenda? Sure, I’d probably find some. I’d also find some for Kirk/Uhura, Sulu/Uhura, Scotty/Uhura (that one was actually canon) and McCoy/Uhura. Why? Because she was the only series regular who was female, and she had lots of scenes with all of the other characters, all of which held her in high regard and admired her. I said it in a previous thread, and I’ll say it now. I am not in possession of ‘shipper goggles’ so passing something off as canon because there may or may not have been ‘hints’ do not hold water with me.

I was got into an argument with a Kirk/Spock shipper on the StarTrek.com board who tried to tell me their ship was canon and also tried to use canon to support it. They also quoted some magazine article where an interviewer asked Shatner who his best alien conquests was and he answered “Spock”. I told them the same thing I’m about to tell you. Friends and colleagues, particularly ones who live in such a small community and space, such as the Enterprise, are going to exchange looks, and shoulder pats, and the occasional flirtatious quibble, such as the nature of companionship. When I wink at someone to follow up a sarcastic quip I just made, or exchange pop culture quotes with them (i.e. Spock reciting poetry) I am not trying to get in their pants. My boss, a co-worker and I were quoting “The Princess Bride” to each other today. Trust me when I say I wasn’t trying to woo them.

So from my perspective (and, I might add, the perspective of the administrators of tvtropes.org, so I’m hardly alone in this viewpoint) yes, Spock/Uhura was a token romance.

365. Ahmed - January 23, 2013

Why they keep writing new synopsis every couple weeks ? And what up with this “entity” thing ? Is B.C playing an alien now ? !!!

366. NuWisdom - January 23, 2013

@boborci be verrrry careful about talking about 9/11 Truther stuff in a public forum. Rumor has it Charlie Sheen was talking about that stuff before his ‘breakdown’, aka Hollywood’s go-to way of ‘silencing dissenters’.

About another series to replace Fringe, why not talk to JJ and to CBS Universal about rebooting that 90s show Sliders?

367. NuWisdom - January 23, 2013

#356… Q, perhaps? LOL

368. Jonboc - January 23, 2013

The animated series was developed by original series producers and story editors. It had the original cast acting out stories taking place within the first 5 year mission, written by original series writers. Roddenberry signed off on it. I’m not quite sure I understand the worth of debating which of two fictional series is “real” or not, but as far as content being credible as “Star Trek”, you can’t get much better street cred than the animated series. So the fact that Robert April is showing up in JJs universe, in any capacity, thrills me to no end!

Cant wait to read the countdown comics to see how it all plays out. I’m waiting for the 4 issue compilation in April so I can knock them all out just prior to seeing the movie.

369. Adolescent Nightmare - January 23, 2013

No one be jealous that Spock has a girlfriend. Kirk was all wrong for him anyway.

370. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - January 23, 2013

@361. Phil

Agreed. And don’t get me started on just how sleazy this (then) 12 year old girl thought Kirk was. TOS Star Trek wasn’t the only offender of course. Other examples which come to mind: The Man from U.N.C.L.E. – Napoleon Solo; just about every Bond movie ever made – James Bond…

That’s how it was back then. I think things have (mostly) improved. Voyager had some strong female characters, for example.

371. Trekkiegal63 - January 23, 2013

355: Also, forgot to add to my earlier response, that the conversation between Uhura and Gaila doesn’t count as passing the Bechdel Test, because it was, ultimately, about Kirk.

372. Trekkiegal63 - January 23, 2013

363:

Of course, she’s a red shirt, so it should not be unexpected….

This made me laugh out loud, and I needed that (particularly after dealing with a select few of the posters here), so thank you.

373. Red Dead Ryan - January 23, 2013

#365.

WTF?

374. Star Wars Prequels fan - January 23, 2013

@ 363 trekkiegal63

The term token and sexualization are not even linked as it is with race.

And Actually you are the one that played the RACE CARD by using the term TOKEN and I pointed it out and corrected you.

Do you know how many respected black republicans hate been called a TOKEN?

I guess you should do a little research on that as well.

The reality is that, the term Token is very race significant; it should never be used if there is no direct and sufficient evidence of it. You (Trekkiegal63) obviously did not know how the spock and uhura relationship came about because if you did you will have never used the word Token in the first place, especially when the roles are played by a white man and a black women.

I do not believe in such coincidence…sorry.

Let me give you the more real reasons for the S/U romance based on the makers of the films

1. Every film story need a romance and it is the job of the screen writers and sometimes the director of the film to select the most compatible characters to pair romantically together on the big screen.

2. JJ Abrams said he did not want to the stereotypical story where the main hero of the film (which is kirk) gets the girl.

3. As the film was very fast paced , it would have been very difficult to use someone like chapel who was in the medical bay and not on the bridge to pair Spock with.

4. You could also add the TOS episode Charlie x.

That was how the S/U relationship came about….it was no TOKEN

And stop pretending you are a minority when you are a obviously a white female .Minorities never use that word Token. At least not when you have a powerful man and a powerful woman who just happen to be of different races coming together as a couple. This is why I referenced geroge lucas and his girlfriend.

As for the sexualisation for Uhura..You should use that word with jim krik because:

1. he is the one that sleeps around

2. he is the one that hits on gorgeous girls at the bar while been drunk.

3. he is the one that was not even qualified to be on the enterprise.

4. he was the one that uses women baits to pass the kobayashi maru test,

5. he is the only that grabbed uhura’s breast.

6. He is the one that cant tell the difference between orion green girls after having sex with one of them

Now Lets look at the sole called sexualisation of uhura.

1. She turned down an obvious womaniser like Kirk.

2. She told her roommate to stop bringing guys back into their room.

3. She is top of her class and and unlike Jim she doesn’t use her looks to pass her test..

4. She is not even a graduate and yet she gets assistant jobs at Star-fleet academy.

5. She becomes the head of communications on the enterprise.

6. She (At least for now) has a romantic relationship that she guides close to her heart.

7. She got undressed not knowing that kirk was watching and when she found him out she angrily demanded that he leave her room.

8. She comforted her boyfriend privately after his planet got blown up and his lost his mum.

9. Okay the transporter padd scene was mixed…but people give it a pass because it may as well have been her final moment with Spock

So please explain the sole called sexualisation of her. Yes…They made her character pretty and sexy like any modern female lead of a summer block buster film but she was no sex object.

She was sexy and not sleezy.

Sleezy= sexualisation…Uhura was not sleezy

Another research you need to do….sexy vs sleezy.

Also See my earlier post of the characters of batman , iron man, pepper potts, Thor and Jane Foster for more information of how a mature romance that was never solid or even existed in the original source material can work on the big screen for a whole new audience.=. in a modern age

Please.Also get over yourself and stop acting like some strong complex feminist women with phoney statistics about the workforce. We are talking about fictional characters here so lets get the facts straight about their characteristics.

And please if you are going to reply to my post do not use the term Token .I find it offensive.

375. porthoses bitch - January 23, 2013

While we’re making sexist observations……..just realized no sign of Rachel Nichols inSTID….

I liked Gaila….she was exciting…

376. Jack - January 23, 2013

Is it wrong that I like the drawn-in lens flares?

377. Trekkiegal63 - January 23, 2013

364: Oh I never claimed that TOS is not sexist. It, very clearly, had it moments. In fact, I never liked Chris Pike until the ST:2009 film because I never quite forgave him for the ‘women on the bridge’ quote. My least favorite episode of TOS is “Turnabout Intruder” exactly for that reason, the wildly sexist undertones. However, I will say only this in defense of TOS, it was a product of its time. What I’m upset about is the lack of progress (see the stats I copied and pasted from seejane.org above)

378. Red Dead Ryan - January 23, 2013

Folks, can we just drop the political correctness, already?

379. Ahmed - January 23, 2013

Just finished reading the first issue of Countdown To Darkness. The story is very interesting, specially with the introduction of Robert April.

However, I don’t like the artwork. Guess I’m still old fashioned & enjoyed the artworks of the 1970s & 1980s comics more than the new ones.

380. Captain Karl - January 23, 2013

Having just finished reading this, I’ll have to say my two gripes are the inconsistent renderings of the characters features. Some panels they are spot on, others, not even close. It’s as if there’s stunt doubles in some of the panels substituted for the regular characters. The other gripe is the lens flares…in a comic book…really? Did the colorist have a lamp shining on their Cintiq and think “hey, that’ll look great!”?

381. Star Wars Prequels fan - January 23, 2013

@374

galia was indeed sexist,she was kirk sex partner,infact in one of the deleted scenes kirk could not even tell it was Galia when he was apologizing fo kobayashi maru test.

Uhura was in no way sexist in my opinion as she was too bossy to be sexist.

she rightfully bosses spock to put her on the enterprise,a place she rightfully earned and she almost threw jim out of her room when she cut him spying in her while she was undressed.

I doubt Spock by his own free will got with Uhura for her looks in the first place.

Ironically Jim wanted to get with Uhura because he thought she was gorgeous and she aggressively turned him down.

But my friend here (trekkiegal63) thinks that Uhura was just in a token relationship and a sexualised character.

we were obviously not watching the same film.

382. Curious Cadet - January 23, 2013

@356. Giez,
“Interesting that in the new Paramount description to buy the movie poster, it refers to BC as a “mysterious, malevolent force” and “seemingly unstoppable entity”

Sure sounds like Gary Mitchell. Or at least the entity that was previously in Gary Mitchell.

I’m definitely confused about all these official synopsis coming out of Paramount.

383. Trekkiegal63 - January 23, 2013

376:

I can’t believe you have the audacity to continue with the use of red herrings. I used the term ‘token romance’ because it is what a very, very popular website, one visited by all ethnicity all over the internet, every where, tvtropes.org, calls it. A site I clearly referenced and posted a link to in an earlier post. So do not continue this vein of ‘token’ and it’s nuances with me. Token, by itself, is not a derogatory word. It’s how its used that determines its power. I assure you my use was meant as this: every single film in recent history has a romantic subplot not necessary to the plot of the movie and I find it sexist and derogatory that a female has to be romantically paired every single time. If Uhura were Caucasian, or Hispanic, like myself, I’d still say the same thing!

You’re doubting my ethnicity doesn’t even merit remarking on. I’m quite comfortable with who I am. You continue to attack me, the person, instead of my actual argument. It is a fallacy of logic:

Argumentum ad Hominem (abusive and circumstantial): the fallacy of attacking the character or circumstances of an individual who is advancing a statement or an argument instead of trying to disprove the truth of the statement or the soundness of the argument. Often the argument is characterized simply as a personal attack.

I am reporting you to the site administrators.

What this is really about comes down to this: you are a shipper, you don’t like that I don’t like your ship or your militant support of it. The end.

You will not intimidate me. Nothing you can throw at me will EVER make me doubt my stance or change my mind. In fact the only thing you’re accomplishing here is making me more and more convinced that shipping is an unhealthy cult and that if it makes you this mad, to the point where you mindlessly go around using loaded implications like racsim to bully people into compliance, you need counseling, the sooner the better.

Further, your character bashing of Jim Kirk is not appreciated. It does not support your cause, it is making you look desperate and hateful.

My statistics came from this website: seejane.org. You can verify them yourself.

I addressed the issue of “Charlie X” and the supposed hints it carries in another post.

I do agree with you on one thing: Uhura is an intelligent, capable, and compassionate person and as a character I adore her. Know what though? I don’t feel the need to bash another character in that love of her. Take that as a lesson, if you will, free of charge.

384. Captain Karl - January 23, 2013

As far as Robert April goes, the exact dialogue in the comic is “My name is Robert April…*former* Captain of a ship called Enterprise.” He doesn’t say The Enterprise, just a ship called Enterprise.

According to the TAS and Memory Alpha, Robert April oversaw the construction of components for a Constitution-class starship at the San Francisco Naval Yards. That vessel eventually became the USS Enterprise. April later commanded the Enterprise from 2245 to 2250. This was in the prime timeline. In this timeline, as mentioned by others, he could’ve still oversaw the construction of the Enterprise in the Iowa shipyards on the ground, commanded it during the shakedown cruise and turning it over to Pike for the maiden voyage.

April could very well hold a grudge with Starfleet as he felt he was going to get, could have possibly been promised command of the big E and for whatever reason, the powers that be went back on their word and gave it to Pike instead…and now, he has gone rogue, violating the Prime Directive for reasons unknown. Could he be building an army for revenge? Could he have a god-complex? Could he just like to show up at the end of comic books and get everybody guessing? Could be….could be.

385. Curious Cadet - January 23, 2013

@305 BulletInTheFace,
“#301: Roddenberry didn’t write off TAS as non-canon. That was his weasel hack assistant, Richard Arnold. Roddenberry was fine with it. And it was never truly de-canonized, given that both TNG and Enterprise referenced it and Trek2009 contained actual dialog from it (between Spock and Sarek).”

Exactly!

But more importantly StarTrek.com — the official bastion of canon for Star Trek — currently confirms TAS as canon. It is not up to Orci, or anybody else. And it is indisputable — CBS says it’s canon so it’s canon. Therefore for at least the purposes of STID Orci has no choice but to consider TAS canon.

386. Meh - January 23, 2013

The comic was kind of meh. If they show April’s Enterprise to be an original series version that would be cool.

387. Sebi - January 23, 2013

Just read the comic and I was quite disappointed….
I enjoyed the ST Countdown (2009) very much, that one was epic. But the first issue of Countdown Into Darkness is actually really boring, and sometimes the characters are almost unrecognizable, both in behaviour and the way they were drawn.

Hope issue 2 is way better…

388. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 24, 2013

“Tokenism, the inclusion of a single person (or very few people) of a group so an organization can publicly claim to be inclusive”

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/token

I never interpreted trekkiegal’s post as being in any way racist. In fact, I had no idea that the word ‘token’ could be interpreted in derogatory RACIST way or had any racist connotation of any kind. I disagreed with the idea of there being “token romance”.

I don’t see Lt Uhura as being anything other than a single woman who loves a particular man, Spock. Spock is also a single man who may well love Uhura as much as she seems to love him. They are both adult individuals who *choose* to love.

It was never made clear if the intimacy that Spock and Uhura appeared to share in the movie began when Spock was still her instructor or if the romance started afterwards. I suspect the more intimate romantic side of any friendship began AFTER the instructor/student relationship ended. The pair just seem too intelligent and disciplined to have gone “that far” while he was her instructor. I am surprised so many people have interpreted things in this way – that Spock was “doing” his student. Clearly, some are not able to give the writers and the characters that much credit.

The scene with Kirk using Gaila to help him beat the KM simulation and then later Kirk mistaking another Orion woman for Gaila was a DELETED scene. I do not credit deleted scenes with any value whatsoever and do not consider them canon. The only reason, as far as I can see, that scene made it into Special Features section of the DVD was to showcase Chris Pine’s fine acting abilities!

I think it stupid and unreasonable even to use deleted scenes as a reason/explanation for anything that happened in the final director’s cut – the actual movie itself!

My impression of women as seen on a lot of TV today are single, independent and career driven. All the female characters on the CSi’s and NCIS are. Even those who are in a relationship (one from CSI-NY) with a child are shown as being back at work concentrating on doing their jobs. Bones, a new mother, has quickly passed the care of her baby onto a nanny, daycare worker, whoever, while she gets on with her career, being just like her partner, both working long hours. Even though there is romance and even parenthood, they are always put on the backburner when it comes to what their primary focus is, for both males and females.

The other impression I am getting is that if Bones, for example, was shown to take extended maternity leave, the writers of her character would probably be accused of being sexist and stereotyping women as only being capable of being a mother – you know, someone who merely changes diapers and cleans up baby puke – if only, even though that same mother has more than proven herself in the *work*place.

I agree with the comment that it is necessary to be discriminate between what is sexy and what is sleazy/sexist.

389. Bridging the Gap - January 24, 2013

Greetings to all,

As to the Spock/Uhura subject, I am sorry to interrupt the stream but, aren’t we reading a little too much into this? I mean, it’s just a relationship, a romantic addition, something most of the movie scenarios nowadays contain, even sci-fi ones. If it lasts in the movie, it serves a certain purpose the filmakers have in mind. And If it doesn’t, it’s probably for the same reason.

Just my humble opinion. Hope you all are well.

390. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 24, 2013

It is a long, long read, but I think some of you may find it interesting –

http://academia.edu/461218/Results_Star_Trek_Fandom_Survey

391. Jemini - January 24, 2013

333: “Basically, I think you’re confusing your, personal, love of the Spock/Uhura ‘ship’ with the need for dramatic irony”

my compliments for making the discussion useless.
I was about to reply but you essentially took away my will to do so with this phrase because here we go again with people getting condescending with other fans and reducing everything to a shipping thing totally avoiding the actual point that some was trying to make.
Because, of course, if I like them together I can’t have opinions or they don’t make sense.
I will tell you a secret that maybe you don’t like to hear but I will tell you anyway: we’re all biased.
You have opinions as well and your perception of things is inevitably influenced by that opinion and if you do not realize it you can’t have discussions with the others.
I may like that relationship but aren’t you biased against it too because you don’t like it?
Since you like tropes so much : there is a trope in fandon called “anti shipping goggles”

Haters in this site seems to believe that if you like that relationship you can’t have opinions or your opinions are necessarily skewed by that and yet the haters seem to believe that their opinion is, for some reason, the more objective one even when it obviously isn’t (and even when they have a personal agenda too as made obvious by some polls here in this site and posts where the most common anti S/U argument is that Spock should be gay for Kirk )

“I disagree that it takes a “romantic” partner to do it.”

I don’t know about you, but personally I can’t imagine the other characters or a “friend” in the scenes where Uhura voiced her worry for him for the same reason I can’t imagine a friend comforting Spock the way Uhura did (and was allowed to do as his girlfriend) in the turbolift. More than anything, it’s the fact that he’s half vulcan so that would be inappropriate for him, you need someone whom he’s already intimate with. And fact is: Kirk and the other crew members are strangers for him how can we expect them to be a family for him when even his girlfriend can’t help him right now? That wouldn’t be realistic for normal people let alone a vulcan (as they’re already very introvert by nature)

392. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 24, 2013

Just posted through google 10 minutes ago – Chris Pine about Kirk/Spock in STID

http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/movies/movie-news/chris-pine-276736.html

393. Star Trek: Nemesis blows, is the point - January 24, 2013

The Animated Series always should have been cannon. It’s status shouldn’t have been relegated in 1987.

StarTrek.com does not officially acknowledge TAS as cannon. Incorporating information into it’s database does not equate to cannonical status. They are trying to sell DVDs after all. I think if they were to recognize it as cannon, they’d a) say that it is (they don’t, so it’s ambiguous) and b) on their current poll question, they would have TAS as an option for the question “Which series should have had one more season?” (I’m not sure which way I’d go. I’d love a fourth season of TOS, fifth of ENT and at least a longer second season for TAS.)

394. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 24, 2013

As far as I can tell, it seems that Uhura may be the only really balanced, functional person out of the four of them – ie Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Uhura, as of now, in this timeline.

Spock is full of anger and grief (understandable), Kirk is coming to terms with burdens of command and finds consolation talking to a computer and Dr McCoy is grumpy about his divorce.

395. Jay Ley (Warrington, UK Trekker) - January 24, 2013

I absolutely love the idea of using Capt April in the new movie. I always felt that he was given a raw deal as he is only ever mentioned (and features) in one episode of TAS, yet he is suppose to be one of the first Captains of the Enterprise. Hell, even Capt Harrison of the ENT B gets more meaningful attention, and he was crap!!

Being British, I hope that April (if he is in the movie) is British, and I am intrigued to see how this all pans out, will he be Weller or BC???

My theory is that he commanded the Enterprise after Archers NX-01, and we see this ship crash in the trailer… But that’s all I have…

If he has gone rogue. Its clear that the Prime Directive has been violated, as the PD seems to be a running theme throughout the movie. I hope there is no de-aging rubbish, otherwise April may aswell be the Admiral from Insurrection…

396. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - January 24, 2013

@389. Rose (as in Keachick)

Thank you for posting that link to the survey. It was a fascinating and humbling read. I would recommend all taking the time to read and remind ourselves what it is to be Trek.

397. Jemini - January 24, 2013

339: “How is the Spock/Uhura relationship a token romance? What the hell is a “token” romance? How do you define “family and friends”? Are not Spock and Uhura friends? Does a relationship suddenly not be “romantic” when the couple formalize the relationship through a contract like marriage? Should soldiers and others suffering from PSTD stop being with girlfriends/wives/husbands/boyfriends because the romantic aspect might interfere with their recovery? ”

yeah, apparently a romantic partner can’t be a friend too and the best way to recover from PSTD is to be alone forever and get rid of the only family members and connections that you have. Take this advice guys the next time you’re depressed dump your partner and you will magically feel better.

348: since when tvtropes.org is the word of God?
do you realize that most of the stuff written there is not supposed to be taken seriously and the pages are written by fans and edited by fans?
They tend to exaggerate things on purpose, did you read all the tropes they put Kirk/Spock in? LOL seriously, according to that site this is the worst fandom ever.
I find it a bit amusing that you keep citing that site to backup your opinion about things when most of the material written in that site is unsounced (in another page they say that Roddenberry stated this or that and yet they provide no source to backup that assertion).

You can do better, there are many fans that wrote essays/meta about the movie that are way more eloquent than opinions without argument stated by tvtrope.

but since you like that site so much, the S/U relationship is also cited here:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AntiShippingGoggles

There are at least a few fans of the 2009 Star Trek movie who insist that Spock and Uhura are just friends, despite the fact that they kiss onscreen. This reasoning seems to be split about equally between people who ship a competing couple, and people who dislike the romance in general.

eh.. sounds familiar..

—-

“In the rebooted Star Trek film, Spock and Uhura’s romance could be removed and it’s loss wouldn’t affect the plot at all. ”

so, since someone over tvtropes said it, it must be the truth. Good to know.
except, I can disagree with that assertion and actually find it pretty dumb
(though, it’s dumb only if posted here out of the context of that site, honestly.)

here’s a fan that wrote an excellent meta that counter-argument the “non argument” from tv-trope.
http://ayries.tumblr.com/post/38206287510/the-narrative-importance-of-spock-uhura-its-a-thing

—-

btw, the whole “token romance” thing doesn’t make sense to me
many of the couples listed in that site as token romances aren’t so useless for the plot like the site make it seems that they are.
and really what the heck it means “token romance” anyway? I mean, it’s like saying that friends in the movies are “token friendships” or action scenes are “token action” using this logic anything can be considered useless for the overall plot.

387: “I suspect the more intimate romantic side of any friendship began AFTER the instructor/student relationship ended.”

is the official site of the movie canon? because if that so, the official site states that Uhura is not Spock’s student anymore, she’s in fact the teaching assistant for one of his courses.
so, it’s definitely possible that he started dating her when she became his TA. It even makes sense because I suppose it’s the time where he actually got the chance to spend more time with her – since they were co-workers – compared to the time he’d spend with a student.
But anyway, until the writers don’t explicitly state in canon that he dated a student the whole argument about it being wrong or not is moot. Furthermore, we don’t even know if they have rules forbidding this kind of relationships.. the academy is not high school both Uhura and Spock are adult people (he’s like how many years older than her, anyway?)

398. Dom - January 24, 2013

363. Trekkiegal63: ‘You are, very clearly, a guy. Because the privilege exuding from your post is stunning, and not in a good way.’

‘Privilege?!’ Oh Lordy! One of those types. Moving on…

399. Star Wars Prequels fan - January 24, 2013

@382 Trekkiegirl63

1.first of all I attacked your logic, I gave you reasons why uhura was not a sex object….8 REASONS for that matter and I also gave you 4 REASONS of how the romance came about. Its funny that you cant give comment of my reasons or dis-construct it.

More importnt;y I gave you another reason why the term token is offensive.

Your ethnicity is obvious.I don’t know who you are fooling but you are a white girl, I am 100% sure of it . you gave the clue in an easy way as there is no way a minority will ever use that word Token to defend anything they have no sufficient evidence on.

AS I SAID EARLIER YOU DID NOT KNOW HOW THE ROMANCE CAME ABOUT.

And the fact that you continue to use the term so boldly after I told you it is offensive when a person of colour like Uhura or Zoe Saldana is concerned proves my point.

SO….PLEASE STOP PRETENDING TO BE A PERSON OF COLOUR.

You are too easy to figure out.

400. Mad Mann - January 24, 2013

374. porthoses bitch – January 23, 2013

Wow that sucks. I love me some green Rachel Nichols in her underwear. I guess I can keep watching that cheesey Continuum show…

401. BulletInTheFace - January 24, 2013

#398: By assuming that someone is or is not black based on how they post, you are the one being a racist. Cool your jets, man–you’re being obnoxious. And no, the word “token” is NOT a racially offensive term. The practice of tokenism is racist, but the word is not when describing the practice. And if you don’t understand that, then you’ve got bigger problems.

402. Dom - January 24, 2013

398. Star Wars Prequels fan

Don’t stress it: these humourless types will defend you to the death if you agree with them. If you don’t, they’ll threaten to call the police! ;)

I wrote a long reply to her, then deleted it, realising these people are desperate, angry attention seekers. Right now, I’m sat in an edit suite working for a brilliant female producer-director-camera-operator and there’s a female producer-editor in here, along with a two male producer-director-cinematographers. Between us all, we represent three different nationalities. Hardly the sexist media a certain person is portraying!

It’s funny that a a movie featuring a highly qualified, intelligent woman being involved with a highly intelligent man well before the film starts, who is willing to deal with his emotional difficulties, as well as being discreet owing to his senior position, is somehow seen as sexist!

403. Phil Baiden - January 24, 2013

So this isn’t Prime April, somehow finding himself in the new timeline, then?

(Will he pull out a white tulip in a Bad Robot/Fringe/Trek/Peter Weller super crossover?)

404. Moputo Jones - January 24, 2013

Orci: “We get asked that a lot, and it’s our understanding that canon is that which is filmed. As a strict Constitutionalist, I don’t support a change in the definition of canon during my tenure. Perhaps future courts can take up the issue, but in the meantime the comics are as close to canon as you can get without being on film.”

405. PaulB - January 24, 2013

It’s easy to see that Abrams-Trek is sexist. The male officers have rank insignia on their uniforms. The female officers don’t. They don’t even have sleeves upon which to place the insignia!

The women on TOS had sleeves with insignia, so this was an intentional change made by Abrams & crew–to remove the sleeves and the rank. Why? No other reason than to make the women look sexier–more bare skin!

406. porthoses bitch - January 24, 2013

Amazing how no one has mentioned that Anthony is listed as a technical consultant on the comic……boy, who says you can’t keep a secret. I still read Aint it cool every day…but find Harry’s back patting ( i.e. name dropping) very annoying….Anthony rarely mentions most of his doings…very much enjoyed his commentaries on the trek film blue rays. Anthony always ( as far as this site is concerned) has let Trek come first.

407. Jack Zymurgy - January 24, 2013

I read the comic last night on my iPad and thought it was well done. I’m intrigued with April’s inclusion here.

As far as April being the former captain “of a ship called Enterprise” here is my personal little theory (forgive me if someone posted something similar. I tried to scan/read all 404 comments above me- but hey, I haven’t had my coffee yet.)

We know that the appearance of the Narada changed everything in this universe. Perhaps Star Fleet R&D started cranking out craft and pushing design forward at a breakneck pace, figuring they were in a situation akin to the arms race of the Cold War. So the E as we used to know here in the Abrams Universe was built earlier the one in the Prime Universe- thus having a different registry number.

Also, this would explain April possibly going rogue and Star Fleet violating its own ethics and regulations with regularity. Students of history know that during the Cold War, our own government and agents thereof did things that weren’t on the up and up. Fear and paranoia will do that. Consider Picard’s reaction to the Borg in First Contact- even good people will flirt with the edge in the right circumstances. Certainly the Kelvin’s destruction and the fear of the Klingons having the Narada in their possession would have caused panic in Star Fleet.

408. Jack Zymurgy - January 24, 2013

Ug. Third paragraph last two lines should have read “So the E as we used to know her in the Prime Universe was built earlier in the Abrams Universe- thus having a different registry number and a very different service history.”

Also, a new comment system with editing would be nice. Just a thought.

Anyway- thanks to Anthony and to Mr. Orci.

409. Dee - lvs moon' surface - January 24, 2013

#391. Rose (as in Keachick)…

I wonder if that scene of the hands on the glass, was related to the loss command of the Enterprise after Kirk breaking the rules to save the life of Spock … maybe Spock was thanking Kirk … just wondering

;-) :-)

410. Jack Zymurgy - January 24, 2013

Oh, a little baseless speculation here, but I notice that veteran voice and character actor Nolan North is listed in the cast but not given a name on IMDB yet. If you compare the pic of him linked below and imagine him with grey hair and a grey goatee he’d look an awful lot like the drawing of Captain April on the last page of the comic. And casting a 40-something as a 50-or-60 something would give you the ability to include a flashback scene in the film for expositional purposes.

Just a thought…

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTU2MzYyMzMxMF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMTA4NDYxOA@@._V1._SY314_CR12,0,214,314_.jpg

411. Crusade2267 - January 24, 2013

I wonder if there is a clue in the bridge scenes of the comic. I noticed one of the monitors has a picture of a planet labeled as Organia. Considering there will be Klingons in the movie, could it be a riff on “Errand of Mercy?” Perhaps with a Section 31 twist thrown in?

412. Darmok - January 24, 2013

I could’ve sworn reading somewhere that Roddenberry said that TAS wasn’t canon but the character of Robert April is. Did anyone else read that?

Regarding the comic book image of Robert April, is that the “giant/gattling gun” on his back?

413. Star Wars Prequels fan - January 24, 2013

@ 400 bulletintheproof

I am not the one been racist, I am pointing out the coded racism.

when the term token is used with a person of colour then it is racist. and last I checked, uhura is a womon of color.

I also didn’t assume someone is not black, I know when someone is not black.

THE CLUES ARE THERE.

How can you tell someone is not black?.

Because no black person on any given circumstance will ever use the term token to describe uhura,knowing the influence of her character in the 60’s. .

Uhura was a ground breaking character.Gene Rod took a huge risk by putting a woman of color on TV despite the hate he got for it.

Uhura and kirk has the first interracial kiss ….Another ground breaking moment on TV

Her character opened the doors of all women of color.

so the fact that a minority will then (46 years) later say she is just a token is a dead give way that they are not a minority.

You dont need the scooby doo gang or sherlock holmes for this but no minority will ever use that word to describe another black person in a show that is white male dominate show.

blacks will never see that her as a token the see that as an empowerment.

Like I said it is so easy to figure out.

More importantly Trekkiegal63 has already used the term on another article on this site….in other word she uses the word a lot.its not the first time she has called the Uhura and the romance a token.

like I said you don’t need Sherlock Holmes to figure people like her out.

414. Jack Zymurgy - January 24, 2013

Expanding on my Nolan North as Captain April speculation, here is Nolan’s head shot compared to the comic image…

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kWW6_tbGtvA/UQFIrPhmwwI/AAAAAAAAAEc/L_ROUR09puA/s640/IsNorthPlayingApril.001.jpg

415. Copper Based Blood - January 24, 2013

#413 Jack Zymurgy

Yes, I think you have nailed it. Nolan North = Captain April

Not Peter Weller….. who happens to be “Khan”

416. Jeffries Tuber - January 24, 2013

Are we just ignoring the obvious? Wouldn’t it be more logical for Weller to be a Klingon–since he has his own ship and is not canon?

417. Jeffries Tuber - January 24, 2013

This face and hairless dome seems much more appropriate to Klingon prosthetics than any human presentation: http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3587026944/nm0000693

418. crazydaystrom - January 24, 2013

412. Star Wars Prequels fan
“Because no black person on any given circumstance will ever use the term token to describe uhura,knowing the influence of her character in the 60′s. .”

????
SWPfan, as a man who is, what’s commonly refered to these days as, African American, I can inform you with, at least a certain degree of, authority that you are WRONG about that. And that statement and others you’ve made on this thread are so absolutist and ‘tunnelized of vision’ that I have to wonder if you are merely trolling. I haven’t disagreed with everything you’ve said but I have to wonder.

AND-
The SW prequels suck! As does Return of the Jedi for that matter, IMO. There are only two great Star Wars films. But that’s a discussion far another time and place.

419. Curious Cadet - January 24, 2013

@392 Star Trek: Nemesis blows, is the point,
“StarTrek.com does not officially acknowledge TAS as cannon. Incorporating information into it’s database does not equate to cannonical status.”

Sorry, no. The database is labeled with the heading “Canon Info”. There is nothing ambiguous about it. ANY ENTRY in the database IS CANON. It cannot be more clear. This website may not be inclusive, but it is the final arbitrator of whether something is canon. And Robert April is in the database.

http://www.startrek.com/database_article_navigator

Unless someone can point to another CURRENT source that indicates TAS is specifically excluded from current canon by CBS, then the matter is closed, as it meets every definition of canon, and is currently listed in the official canon database on the official Star Trek website.

420. crazydaystrom - January 24, 2013

I need to clarify something here. I do not thing Uhura is a token character at all. I love her, particularly Nichols/Uhura (I’m old school). My post and comment was only addressing Star Wars Prequel fan’s misconception about what a person of color would or would not do.

And SWPfan, why in the world would you think you can posivitely determine a person’s ethnicity by posts on a website forum? False assumptions yield erroneous conclusions my friend.

421. Curious Cadet - January 24, 2013

@413 Jack Zymurgy,
“Expanding on my Nolan North as Captain April speculation, here is Nolan’s head shot compared to the comic image…”

GOOD CALL!

This is the best evidence I have seen that April MAY be in the actual movie itself. North is primarily a voice actor, but perhaps that makes up for his on-screen presence what he lacks in the Bruce Greenwood factor. Plus fans won’t be scrutinizing him since he doesn’t have the same stature as a Weller or Greenwood.

Bottom line, this is a far more likely scenario than Harrison being a reverse-aged April, or Weller being April (thus making a liar out of Orci).

422. BulletInTheFace - January 24, 2013

#412: No, you’re wrong. It IS racist and offensive to assume someone is not black, as it assumes all non-black people think alike. That’s not debatable. You’re racist.

Furthermore, Uhura and Kirk did not share the first interracial kiss on TV. That’s a common myth propogated by Roddenberry and Star Trek’s PR people, but it’s incorrect. Nancy Sinatra and Sammy Davis Jr. beat them to it on Movin’ With Nancy, and other interracial kisses had also appeared on Emergency Ward 10, The Man from U.N.C.L.E. and Daniel Boone. Heck, Star Trek had even featured interracial kisses before that, in “Mirror, Mirror” (between Shatner and Barbara Luna) and in “Elaan of Troyius” (between Shatner and France Nuyen).

423. BulletInTheFace - January 24, 2013

#419: SWPfan is either a racist, a troll or a racist troll. There’s no other explanation. No one can determine a person’s race, color, ethnicity, gender, age or creed just from a statement made on an anonymous message board. That he/she seems to think he/she can determine others’ non-black status just because that other wrote something he/she disagrees with means that SWPfan is incredibly ignorant–and racist. And that, unlike her claims, is indisputable.

424. Trekkiegal63 - January 24, 2013

412 Star Wars Prequel fan

You are giving every appearance of someone who is irrational and irate. You accusations are baseless and your presumptions preposterous. You are, very obviously, a troll. That or your preoccupation with the Spock/Uhura ship has devolved to the point of obsession, so much so that it has resulted in wild and erratic behavior. I refuse to feed into your mania any further. I have reported you to the site administrators. Have a nice day.

425. BulletInTheFace - January 24, 2013

SWPfan also overlooks the fact that Nichelle Nichols HERSELF saw the role as token and under-utilized, which is why she had planned to quit before Martin Luther King Jr. convinced her to stay.

426. Robman007 - January 24, 2013

@ 373…yeah, I’m pretty sure that nowadays the only time “Token” is used in the way you describe is on South Park. Token can mean alot of things.

Second, why did ya have to bring the good Captain into the conversation? He can’t help all those things, the women just love the man. The guys wanna be the Captain. Not his fault. He’s a leader of men, the master of the Judo Chop….so, while you are at it, go back and watch those Star Wars prequel films that are liked by nobody, and leave the good Captain, leave the silly accusations of racism in said horrible prequel films forums and leave the good Captain Kirk outta this convo. Not cool….not cool

427. Robman007 - January 24, 2013

@424…the “token” classification could be used for every character NOT played by Shatner, Nimoy, Kelley and even Doohan. It was not until the conventions of the 70’s that the other three became more then just glorified extras with names.

428. Robman007 - January 24, 2013

@ 423. Trekkiegal63

Your first clue should have been the forum tag when it came to irrational and erratic. I like Star Wars as much as the next guy, but to admit to being a fan of the prequel films? Yeah, irrational, erratic and illogical.

Then he brought the good Captain into the convo…and sited deleted scenes to further drag down Kirk’s awesome reputation. Not cool ;-)

429. BulletInTheFace - January 24, 2013

I actually have to wonder if SWPfan is purposely TRYING to come off as ignorant, given his/her poor writing skills and ridiculous racist rants, in an effort to discredit black people. That kind of tactic–pretending to be a member of a race and then behaving poorly or posting idiotic comments in order to make that race look bad–is often used by racists on message boards. I’m starting to think that’s what is going on here… I think the ignorance may be feigned.

430. BulletInTheFace - January 24, 2013

#426: Chekov actually had a lot to do on the series. Uhura and Sulu, however, were very marginalized characters, unfortunately.

431. Trekkiegal63 - January 24, 2013

yeah, apparently a romantic partner can’t be a friend too and the best way to recover from PSTD is to be alone forever and get rid of the only family members and connections that you have. Take this advice guys the next time you’re depressed dump your partner and you will magically feel better.

Did I say that? No, I did not. You’re being petulant and you’re putting words in my mouth. What I said was that Spock needs a support network, one composed of many people who can be there for him when he breaks. Network as in more than one. He should be consulting a healer. Since he and Sarek mended fences, they should be in contact. I also said that he is not in the place to be starting a romantic relationship when he has more prevelent concerns on his plate. Romantic relationships, the healthy ones, anyway, are an equal balance of give and take. But Spock really can’t be giving right now, he has to concentrate on getting better. In other words, at this point in his life, Spock needs to concentrate on Spock.

As a Navy brat I was trained in how to approach my father whenever he came back from an extended tour of duty, how to give him time to cope, to adjust. My mother, as a Navy wife, learned to rely on a support network of family and friends for these long absences. They had almost reached their golden anniversary before my father’s death. The day he died they still loved each other as much as two people in love possibly can. I, myself, am quickly approaching my silver. While I don’t claim to be an expert (because I don’t think anyone can claim that, marriage doesn’t come with a manual, unfortunately) I do think I can speak on this topic with both experience, and as someone who had the most wonderful of examples to follow.

I will tell you a secret that maybe you don’t like to hear but I will tell you anyway: we’re all biased.

And the earth is a sphere, and the sun is bright. LOL. Of course everyone is biased, that’s how our brains work. Do you know why every new meat one tries is said to taste like chicken? It’s because our brains use association to classify new experiences. And you’re absolutely right, I come to this board with a preconceived notion on shipping. It is my belief that the practice can devolve, as we’ve see here on this very thread, to obsession. One that can promote a semi-disassociation between reality and fantasy. Where the need to defend overrides treating other human beings, real live people, with the most basic of common curtousy.

I also wonder if shipping is not often used as a safe substitution for developing and maintaining real life relationships (much like teenage girls get crushes on movie stars or rock stars – because they’re safe). And just to be clear I’m not talking about the casual shippers, the one who see something and think, ‘okay, that’s cool’. I’m talking about people who have blogs that read like worship alters, and who spend the bulk of their free time (and even their sleep time) on their ship instead of going out for the occasional vitamin d, i.e. sunshine.

So yes, you are correct, I admit it freely, I have a preconceived notion on shipping.

… doesn’t change my stance. ;)

I can’t imagine a friend comforting Spock

I’m sorry you haven’t yet experienced a friendship like that. I have. I have a friend whom I would take a bullet for and I have every faith she would do the same for me. We are the godparents to each other’s children, we share every milestone and heartache together. She edited the essay I wrote and cheered me on for doing it (we both have only daughters). She doesn’t replace my husband for he shares in those things, too, but she enriches my life. I hope you find your own friend like that someday.

432. Jack - January 24, 2013

Apropos of nothing, this week’s AV Club review (check ‘em out, BTW — Zack Handlen’s done all of TOS, TAS, TNG and is now on to DS9) of DS9’s Our Man Bashir makes a nice point about the idea that the holodeck ( “a magic room”) is designed to kill you, but they put in an easily disengaged safety backup to keep you, well, not killed:

“It’s like having a really amazing TV in your house, only if there’s a glitch, or the batteries in the remote go dead, the TV will murder you”

433. Trekkiegal63 - January 24, 2013

432 Robman007:

LOL! Yes, you make a very good point. ;)

434. Trekkiegal63 - January 24, 2013

392 Rose (as in Keachick):

First, thank you for posting the links. I haven’t read them yet (too busy responding here) but based on the feedback you’ve already received I look forward to delving in. :)

Secondly, just to be clear, I’m only singling out Spock and Uhura because its relevent to Trek and this is a Trek board. Outside of this board I actually view the issue of the token romance from a very wide spread angle. If Spock and Uhura were the only romantic subplot utilized, one not necessary to the plot of the movie, they wouldn’t be a token. The problem, for me, lies in the fact that almost every single movie released has such a subplot. And that women, even the well educated and highly professional ones, are never, ever portrayed as single.

I’ll give you an example, and this was actually the first time I saw a pairing form in pop culture where I raised an eyebrow. The first pairing that made me aware that yes, this need to pair everybody under the sun up in pop culture is an issue.

I was a fan of “The Silence of the Lambs”. Then “Hannibal” came out. It is the only time in history I’ve thrown down a book in disgust. Hannabol Lecter is a serial killer. Like him, hate him, understand him, whatever, none of that changes the fact that he kills and eats people. Just a warning, I’m about to give spoilers for the end of the book here…

…at the end of the book “Hannibal” he and Clarice Starling are in a romantic relationship. Yes, you read that right, the FBI agent sworn to protect and serve ran off to South America with the serial killer.

Aparently the need to pair people up overrides even the need for believability in story telling. There needs to be some kind of line drawn. (BTW: This is why Jodi Foster refused to do the sequel, she thought the token romance a ‘betrayal’)

As for the characters, Spock and Uhura, individually? I love them both very much.

435. crazydaystrom - January 24, 2013

@BulletInTheFace-
“SWPfan is either a racist, a troll or a racist troll. There’s no other explanation.”

Yep, agreed.

436. Aurore - January 24, 2013

“I actually have to wonder if SWPfan is purposely TRYING to come off as ignorant, given his/her poor writing skills and ridiculous racist rants, in an effort to discredit black people. That kind of tactic–pretending to be a member of a race and then behaving poorly or posting idiotic comments in order to make that race look bad–is often used by racists on message boards. I’m starting to think that’s what is going on here…”
_______

That is my opinion, as well….to some extent.

As a matter of fact, I did not think that it was done in an effort to discredit black people ( although that might be a possibility ).

No.
I personally thought the intent was to discredit…Spock/Uhura “shippers”….no matter their race….

:)

437. crazydaystrom - January 24, 2013

433. Trekkiegal63-
“…issue of the token romance…almost every single movie released has such a subplot.”

This comes from simplistic thinking and the reliance on ‘formula’ in Hollywood. The studios seem to feel that “Two parts this + equal parts of that, add a dash of another thing and an ample amount of yet something else, all served at the right temperature at the right time = boxoffice gold!” And one of those ingredients is a romance, whether it’s important to the plot and story or not. An film with action will appeal to guys (young men of a certain age, to be specific). Write in a romantic interest and that will appeal to the female demographic so you then have a ‘date movie’, which means more ticket sales. It is not about art or good storytelling, it’s about revenue. And the most direct path to profit.

Ideally studios want to make or acquire films that cost the least amount possible and bring in the most money. And actually who can blame them for that? It IS business we’re talking about here. But the shame of it is, social consciousness is way down on the priority list…IF it’s on the list at all. And as you know, since for the most part women are not making decisions in Hollywood, women for the most part are not shown in positive light as intelligent and whole individuals.

438. thorsten - January 24, 2013

@411…
Dear Darmok, Idon’t know about Gene calling April canon, but in the planning stages of Trek the “Skipper” of the Enterprise was named Robert T. April, a space-age Hornblower constantly on trial with himself, lean and capable both mentally and physically… and so on.
That is from Stephen Whitfields book The Making Of Star Trek.

439. crazydaystrom - January 24, 2013

428. BulletInTheFace-
435. Aurore-
“I actually have to wonder if SWPfan is purposely TRYING to come off as ignorant, given his/her poor writing skills and ridiculous racist rants, in an effort to discredit black people.”

OMG!!!
It NEVER occurred to me that this person was either black OR pretending to be black! I guess I just don’t tend to look at things through a filter of ‘race’ at all, even after fifty-five years of existence as a black person. Wow. I must say that caught me off guard.

440. Red Dead Ryan - January 24, 2013

SWPfan is a piece of crap!

441. Jemini - January 24, 2013

430. Trekkiegal63
You said that some people are being offensive and are exaggerating and making assumptions and generalizations and yet you proceed to make exaggerations and assumptions too (also thank you for calling me petulant LOL )

” And you’re absolutely right, I come to this board with a preconceived notion on shipping. It is my belief that the practice can devolve, as we’ve see here on this very thread, to obsession. One that can promote a semi-disassociation between reality and fantasy. “

where are you?
you’re here too aren’t you? You came to this board for whatever reason you did that and you’re repeatedly spending your time and energy over an useless conversation on the internet about fictional characters.

I love it when people spend so much time on the internet talking about other people spending so much time on the internet.
I love it when people say that people are being obsessive with their opinions and yet they are being obviously obsessive and forceful with their own opinion too.
frankly while I can understand the fans/supporters/whatever getting passionate about they like (even when I disagree) what I will never understand is people like you that get so passionate about what they hate and just have to start arguments with the fans.

“So yes, you are correct, I admit it freely, I have a preconceived notion on shipping. ”

you said it.
but believe me, your passive aggressive comments here speak for themselves.

““Basically, I think you’re confusing your, personal, love of the Spock/Uhura ‘ship’ with the need for dramatic irony””

yet, my original comment had very little to do with shipping, you’re the one who reduced it to a shipping argument (and with the opinion you have about shippers the subtext of your comment is pretty obvious… )

The fact that you don’t even realize that you’re being obsessive and offensive like the others only adds to the irony here. ^

442. Red Dead Ryan - January 24, 2013

If Anthony were here, he tell us to knock it off with the racial talk. If he were here, of course.

443. Ctrl-Opt-Del - January 24, 2013

In the original timeline April was part of the team that designed the U.S.S. Constitution NX-1700, and supervised the construction of the Enterprise before taking command of her; this version probably played a similar roll in the design of the alternate Constitution class in the new timeline & just didn’t go-on to command the Enterprise beyond her construction phase & shake-down cruise (or command any ship of the Constitution class, but rather the different class of ship we see crashing into San Francisco), handing her straight to Pike instead…

444. Phil - January 24, 2013

@441. Yeah, I suspect he would have clamped down on a few threads by now…

445. Aurore - January 24, 2013

“OMG!!!
It NEVER occurred to me that this person was either black OR pretending to be black! I guess I just don’t tend to look at things through a filter of ‘race’ at all, even after fifty-five years of existence as a black person. Wow. I must say that caught me off guard.”

________

I just don’t tend to look at things through a ‘ filter of race’ either, hence what I wrote @ 435:

“As a matter of fact, I did not think that it was done in an effort to discredit black people ( although that might be a possibility ).

No.
I personally thought the intent was to discredit…Spock/Uhura “shippers”….no matter their race….”

It never occurred to me that this person was either black or pretending to be black.

What occurred to me was that this poster was pretending to be in favour of the Spock and Uhura romance…

446. fansincesixtynine - January 24, 2013

I guess I’m really out of step with the fans on this site. I can’t scroll past all this stuff about Spock/Uhura, PTSD, tokens, racism and sexism fast enough.

447. Trekkiegal63 - January 24, 2013

436 crazydaystrom:

Ideally studios want to make or acquire films that cost the least amount possible and bring in the most money. And actually who can blame them for that? It IS business we’re talking about here. But the shame of it is, social consciousness is way down on the priority list…IF it’s on the list at all. And as you know, since for the most part women are not making decisions in Hollywood, women for the most part are not shown in positive light as intelligent and whole individuals.

Agreed. I find the entire thing exceedingly sad, which I why I keep trying to point it out. To raise awareness. I’m especially moved to speak of it because I am the parent of a daughter. So the topic hits closely to home not only for my sake as a woman, but for her sake in how she perceives her place in the world.

448. BulletInTheFaceb - January 24, 2013

#438: Didn’t SWPfan identify herself as black? Or am I mis-remembering that? (If she didn’t, then my apologies for mis-remembering. I wasn’t assuming anything about her skin color–I just seem to recall her saying she was black. It’s possible someone else did and I was juxtaposing.) In any case, her claims are so over-the-top that I have to suspect her of trolling, and her writing style reminds me of some racist trolls I’ve seen on IMDB and on AICN who purposely write poorly in an effort to make black people look bad, playing into the “uneducated” stereotype. It’s a common tactic of disguised racism used by Internet trolls, and I suspect it’s happening here, simply because I have trouble accepting she actually believes she can determine a person’s race based on whether or not that person uses the word “token.” Plus, some of her facts are simply incorrect–another common troll tactic.

449. LogicalLeopard - January 24, 2013

307. Trekkiegal63 – January 23, 2013

If you recall, B’Elanna was made chief engineer because there was a lot of tension between the Maquis crew and the Starfleet crew. Chakotay felt that the only way for the two crews to fully accept each other and concentrate on working towards the combined goal of returning to the Alpha Quadrant was if more than just he from the Maquis crew was in a position of authority. Janeway was exceedingly hesitant to appoint B’Elanna at first and only agreed once Torres had proven herself to be an exceptional engineer by saving the day (sound familiar, lol?).

*****************************
Yes, I understand that’s what Janeway was trying to do, but still, she was integrating criminals into her crew and giving them senior officer and bridge officer positions. It’s an interesting, wise decision at first glance, but if this were a contemporary military setting, what Captain would make the same decision? They’d press the rebels into the ship’s crew as low ranking enlisted people, and give resisters the the option to sit the trip out in the bridge. That’s why I’m saying that Starfleet doesn’t apparently operate on the same principles contemporary agencies, such as the US Military, does. Chakotay was qualified to be XO, based on his ability, and Janeway appointed him. Torres was qualified to be CE, so Janeway appointed her.

*L* If I were Captain of the Voyager, we would have gotten back in seventy five years flat, because we wouldn’t have stopped and talked to anyone we didn’t have to, we wouldn’t have stopped to catalogue anything but the most outlandishly unique stellar phenomenon, and we would have had Maquis in a constant rotation from workstations to the brig *L* And I would have threw some of the SF officers in there too.

*********************
Had to chime in here, sorry, Navy brat born and raised. Not that this matters because Star Trek is fiction and Orci et all can do pretty much anything want regarding a Fraternization policy for StarFleet, but in real life the UCMJ makes allowances for married couples. If you’re married, you can both serve together (which is what Troi and Riker, Dax and Worf, Paris and Torres all did in canon) and it wouldn’t contradict the UCMJ (although I still have issues with the token romance aspect of it all ;)).

***************************************

But see, all of those couples would have been covered AFTER marriage, but would they have enjoyed the same leeway before, working and sleeping with each other. That’s my point, Starfleet is fictional of course, but they operate on different standards than we’re used to. Then again, they’ve got a mission difference, as well. Navy ships don’t go out for 5 years at a time to locations where the chances of meeting sexually compatable species are slim and none. They also don’t carry families.

450. Red Dead Ryan - January 24, 2013

It may be due to ignorance, but I honestly had no idea that the word “TOKEN” has a racist meaning.

All this time I thought a token was:

A board game piece

A video game arcade coin

Oh well. You learn something new every day, I guess.

451. endeavour crew - January 24, 2013

Sad how this thread has devolved…………………

Does anybody remember what the original topic was?

452. Red Dead Ryan - January 24, 2013

#450.

The original topic was about Jabba the Hutt’s weight loss exercise program.

453. BulletInTheFace - January 24, 2013

#449: The word itself has no racist meaning–SWFfan is only trolling when saying that. What it does sometimes refer to, though, is tokenism–which means this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokenism

It happens a lot in business environments, as well as in Hollywood. Now, that said, I see Star Trek as having been hugely progressive in casting a multi-ethnic cast, and I think Roddenberry and NBC should be hugely commended for that. But some (including, at one point, Nichols) see Uhura’s casting as tokenism, given that she had precious little to do other than showing leg, opening hailing frequencies and occasionally getting frightened. It’s a shame, as Nichols had more talent than she was allowed to show.

454. Spockchick - January 24, 2013

@450. endeavour crew
Something about a comic?

BTW, I love your name :-)

455. LogicalLeopard - January 24, 2013

291. Curious Cadet – January 23, 2013

So April was the Captain in charge of the Enterprise until construction was complete. The ship was “called” Enterprise but it was not commissioned. Therefore he didn’t captain “The” USS Enterprise. The implication is that he was capatain of the same ship Kirk is now, or at least one in direct lineage.

***********************

Yeah, I can agree with that as a theory as well.

***********************

Since April was 38 at the time of Nero’s encursion in 2233, Starfleet could have rushed into production the “first” Enterprise as much as 8 years earlier than the prime timeline, which April did captain. It could have then easily served for 10-20 years during which time it’s gigantic replacement was being designed and built.
*****************************

Another good theory. I think this is most likely. Feasable, and satisfies fan desire to fit April in with an Enterprise.

****************************

I’m less inclined to believe “old whack-job” April was so incensed about not being named Captain of the ship he built that he went out and built his own “Enterprise”. And I definitely do not believe he is Weller, and especially not Cumberbatch (as that would just be a remake of a TAS episode), because that would mean Orci is a big fat liar, and I’m not ready to believe the SC is just flat put lying to us yet.

*****************************

I always forget who Orci said was an original character and who wasn’t. I think it may be some more to April being jaded. Maybe not getting the new Enterprise was symptomatic of earlier strife between him and Starfleet, if that’s how it goes.

****************************

456. Trekkiegal63 - January 24, 2013

445 Jemini:

Jemini I have a challenge for you… why don’t you try responding to one of my posts without putting words in my mouth or making broad assumptions.

where are you?
you’re here too aren’t you? You came to this board for whatever reason you did that and you’re repeatedly spending your time and energy over an useless conversation on the internet about fictional characters.

Yes, I am here. Glad to be here. I’ve met some lovely people. I also hold down a full-time job. Switch off dinner duty with my husband, run for 45 minutes four nights a week, help my daughter with her homework, and fold laundry and meet my best friend for Saturday morning breakfast. I, very clearly, defined what I meant by obsessive. But since you like to assume the absolute worst (mainly because you don’t like that I don’t like your pairing so you’re determined to view me as public enemy number one) let me elaborate: when something ceases to be a hobby and becomes the single most time consuming aspect of their life, when the line between protecting a fictional pairing and attacking a real live breathing person becomes blurred, when personal blogs, not public forums like this one, but individual blogs read like worship alters to Buddha only with a pairing attached to it, when an opposing opinion is voiced and the opposing opinion is taken as the worst of all cardinal sins with no deference to the fact that not everyone in life is going to agree with you, THAT is what I was referring to. Want to know what I was NOT referring to? I was not referring to the posters on this board, who, like me, utilize Trek as a hobby and healthy escape.

I love it when people spend so much time on the internet talking about other people spending so much time on the internet.

See my response above.

I love it when people say that people are being obsessive with their opinions and yet they are being obviously obsessive and forceful with their own opinion too.
frankly while I can understand the fans/supporters/whatever getting passionate about they like (even when I disagree) what I will never understand is people like you that get so passionate about what they hate and just have to start arguments with the fans.

Again with the assumptions. Let me set the record clear for you. I do not hate either Spock or Uhura. I do not hate fans of Spock and Uhura (if I did I would have to hate myself). I don’t actually hate anything. It’s such a strong word, used far too casually in my opinion. I dislike the romantic trope. Actually, that’s too broad a statement. I dislike the implications the romantic trope has on our society. There is a difference. And it is not my intent to spread hate but raise awareness, which is why I wrote an essay on the topic, posted statistics and bring it up. The problem with you is that you take anything said against the pairing you love as a personal affront. Learn to separate!

you said it.but believe me, your passive aggressive comments here speak for themselves.

I haven’t tried to hide it. I believed myself to be very blunt on my opinions on this topic.

The fact that you don’t even realize that you’re being obsessive and offensive like the others only adds to the irony here. ^

I am passionate about my beliefs, yes. I have reason to be, both as a woman and a mother of a daughter. Especially when these beliefs encompass far more than just Spock and Uhura’s romantic relationship – they’re just one piece of a very large pie. Again, I have not tried to hide this passion. As for obsessive and offensive, I think you have me beat, darling.

457. crazydaystrom - January 24, 2013

@BulletInTheFace –
I didn’t catch that she was black (or pretending to be, whichever) OR that she was a SHE.
But yeah I know what you mean about the IMDB racist trolls. I’m on the site even more than I’m here. It can get pretty bad with all that crap. I don’t go to AICN very much anymore. It ain’t too cool these days.

@Trekkiegal63 –
“I find the entire thing exceedingly sad…I am the parent of a daughter. So the topic hits closely to home not only for my sake as a woman, but for her sake in how she perceives her place in the world.”

Amen to that. Sexism, as with racism, still is very much an affecting undercurrent in our society and even more so in the world as a whole and MUST be discussed and understood. Change (evolution) IS occurring. But isn’t it preferable to have some input in directing that change as opposed to simply going through that change? For the sake of all our daughters and sons.

@fansincesixtynine –
“I guess I’m really out of step with the fans on this site. I can’t scroll past all this stuff about Spock/Uhura, PTSD, tokens, racism and sexism fast enough.”

And add assassination conspiracies to the list. I’d thought this site at refuge from all things non- Trek. But here we are. Into darkness, as it were.

I can empathize with you though.

458. Jack Zymurgy - January 24, 2013

Oh for the love- would you arguing pains in my exhaust port exchange email addresses and take this fight outside already. Or do you think a few hundred posts in a sci-fi thread is going to change the wold?

Me- I don’t hate people for the color of their skin. I prefer hating people for being obnoxious on the Internet.

459. crazydaystrom - January 24, 2013

@Jack Zymurgy –
“…do you think a few hundred posts in a sci-fi thread is going to change the wold?”

No but I know it could help, at least a little.

“Me- I don’t hate people for the color of their skin. I prefer hating people for being obnoxious on the Internet.”

Let’s see. Response options –
a) Good for you!
b) Don’t hate, hater.
c) You’re being a little obnoxious on the Internet here dude!
d) All of the above

Ha! Ha!

But seriously, I honestly can empathize with you Jack Z. (Cool moniker, btw. I’ve been wanting to brew my own for a while now. I think this is going to be the year).

Anyway, I hear there a new Star Trek movie coming out. I wonder if Khan’s going to be on it?

:-)

460. PaulB - January 24, 2013

#457 – Amen! Well said, Jack!

461. crazydaystrom - January 24, 2013

That should have been “I hear THERE’S a new….if Khan’s going to be IN it?

462. Trekkiegal63 - January 24, 2013

457 Jack Zymurgy:

While I disagree with not utilizing the internet to spread messages, after all, what better way to spread a message about stereotypes in movies than a community geared towards a movie going population? I agree that this has gone too far and gotten way too ugly. I regret that it devolved to this.

To bring things back on-topic. I bought this comic book. It’s the first one I’ve ever bought. I can’t wait to get home and read it.

Which of the other ST 2009 comic books would the rest of you recommend?

463. crazydaystrom - January 24, 2013

Trekkiegal63 –
“Which of the other ST 2009 comic books would the rest of you recommend?”

I’ve enjoyed the Star Trek ongoing series. Good stuff. Well done. I used to be a huge comic book reader but got away from it. But being able to download digital versions has gotten me back to reading them. A lot of fun on my iPad. AND keeping me away from more “serious” reading.

464. Jack Zymurgy - January 24, 2013

Trekkiegal, I’m all for spreading messages. And i didnt mind te initial exchange where some interesting opinions were on display. But thread jacking us all into a long, long, loooooooooong flame war is a bit much. Thanks for being willing to get back on subject.

465. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 24, 2013

As I pointed out, many popular television programmes do portray women, who are often main characters, as being capable, independent, single people who are not necessarily looking for a partner. Again, so what if she is? The fact is that many of the male main characters are portrayed as being capable, independent single people who may well be looking for a partner, some romance. What is wrong with that?

If you look at shows like Bones or Boston Legal, it is actually the males who come off as seeming less independent and emotionally more needy of a romance and female companionship, if only for the purposes of sex, or so the men like to kid themselves (ref. Boston Legal’s Alan Shore).

If producers are stereotyping men and women, I am not seeing the same stereotyping occurring that you claim is happening.

Most people tend to be multi-dimensional and relationship, even sexual ones, are part of being human. Nothing sexualizes a person more than PUBERTY.

466. NCC-73515 - January 24, 2013

“I can tease you by saying that a character we have not yet seen in the new timeline shows up in Issue #1 and plays a critical role in the story.”
http://www.startrek.com/article/orci-johnson-talk-countdown-to-darkness

467. Jack - January 24, 2013

Is it over? Can I come out of my room now?

468. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 24, 2013

Surely Trekmovie could be a good place for discussion such as the one about “token romance” in Star Trek and in films/television in general.

Thing is – for better or worse, I don’t read much. I did not know about the tvtropes sites etc. I simply watch the programmes and movies and form opinions based on my own understanding, perception and life experience (limited though it may be in some respects).

I found Jemini’s link at #396 especially interesting and important. It pretty much summed up what had been percolating in my mind ever since seeing Star Trek 09. The Spock/Uhura relationship is important to the overall story, if only for being able to allow a deeper relationship to be forged and expressed between Kirk and McCoy. It is really up to the writers.

After all, Kirk did meet Dr McCoy well before Kirk met Spock, in both timelines, although, in TOS et al, you would never know it most of the time. (Dr McCoy delivered David Marcus, saw what eventuated and the terrible toll it took on Kirk and was there for him as his doctor and FRIEND. “You, of all people, should know the dangers of opening old wounds” – Kirk in lift to Dr McCoy – TWOK)

For this foursome that appears to be coming about in this alternate timeline, it does offer the potential to be a real family in the less conventional sense of the word, especially if Uhura does manage to become mother to a Spockette. Kirk and Bones are already friends, Bones and Uhura have little reason to be at odds with each other – all good there. It is really about this Kirk and Spock getting their act together, for the benefit of themselves and others.

469. drumvan - January 24, 2013

“I can tease you by saying that a character we have not yet seen in the new timeline shows up in Issue #1 and plays a critical role in the story.”
_______________________________________________________

looks like ol’ cap’n april might actually be making an appearance in the movie afterall. the nolan north comparison pic @413 was almost dead on. i like it.

of course, william shatner is sporting that goatee in the new priceline ad. hmmmm. the return of the shat? ;)

470. Son of MJ - January 24, 2013

Sooo it looks like jj is reversing course and will be Directing Episode 7,
http://www.thewrap.com/movies/article/jj-abrams-set-direct-next-star-wars-film-exclusive-74596

471. Jefferies Tuber - January 24, 2013

Armageddon! http://www.deadline.com/2013/01/j-j-abrams-to-direct-new-star-wars-movie-for-disney/

472. Bart - January 24, 2013

JJ ABRAMS TO DIRECT STAR WARS.

http://www.thewrap.com/movies/article/jj-abrams-set-direct-next-star-wars-film-exclusive-74596

473. Craiger - January 24, 2013

Trek 3 in 2020.

474. Dee - lvs moon' surface - January 24, 2013

Trek 3 … maybe with another director! ;-) :-)

475. Jefferies Tuber - January 24, 2013

He screwed us, just like he screwed us the first time. Star Trek is just a means to an end for JJ. Seriously, we waited four years for JJ’s lame Spielberg homage.

Paramount: Don’t wait for this jackal. We shouldn’t have to wait for JJ’s little fantasy movie.

476. Star Wars Prequels fan - January 24, 2013

@423 treekiegal68

It is strange that you have never stated you race again.I am right to call you a white girl because you are one.

However You lied by calling yourself a minority to make your point sound legitimate.And no I am not blinded by the spock/uhura romance, In fact I welcome all ship including Kirk/Spock slash fans and spock/chapel fans.

Besides Spock/Chapel was the one I was interested in the most as she had a lovelorn feeling for him in TOS and he could no give her the love back.

It will have been curious to see a modern take on TOS Spock/Chapel especially with zachary quinto as Spock.

However I do like and respect all the fan base couples of Trek. it just depends on how they are written.

You on the other hand have been guilty of insulting one fan base by calling it a TOKEN.

You use the term all the time…The reality is you will hardly see a minority using that term in 2013.

So what will happen if Kirk/Spock become canon,if both characters go gay and start a romantic and sexual relationship with each other.

Afterall K/S has been the biggest ship in Trek for the past 40 years and S/U comes in second.

Will it be fair to say that the trek writers are pushing a homosexual aganda or it is just a token to the LGBT community?

All I am saying is that you mind your language.

Obviously, you are too ignorant to do that.

@ 452 BulletintheFace

As for the original Uhura saying she was a token.she did feel that way for some time,(i mean who wouldn’t) however she got a letter from Martin Luther King who encouraged her to use her role on tv to be a role model to many young African American and ever since then, that role brought her so much praise and iconic status.

not only did she form a long lasting relationship with Nimoy and Takei but she has always been invited to every sci-fi and Nasa conference.

looking back now, her role as uhura was a blessing that impacted her life in every possible way.

IN THE LONG RUN,I WILL SAY NO…. SHE WAS NO TOKEN.

More Importantly the Star Wars prequels don’t suck. heck it is better than all the TNG trek movies minus first contact.

477. Jefferies Tuber - January 24, 2013

The idea of waiting four or five years for another Trek movie so that JJ can make his George Lucas homage is just infuriating! The ego! All this from a kid who was born on third base.

478. Dee - lvs moon' surface - January 24, 2013

GOSH!!!… And what will happen now? … every time JJAbrams have to talk about Into Darkness, people will ask about SW … HELLOOOO

I’m freaking out here! lol

;-) :-)

479. Phil - January 24, 2013

@475. I’m not insulted at all. And you do seem to be fishing – if you want a rip roaring debate, just suggest that you think news reporting is accurate more often then not. I gaurentee you will be beat like a rented mule…..

480. Robman007 - January 24, 2013

@476…who cares if he is directing a new Star Wars movie. He’s signed on to be a part of 3 Trek films, so he’ll produce this next one and you’ll get a NEW director with NEW ideas.

Not that big of a deal in the long run.

481. PaulB - January 24, 2013

#476 – Don’t you mean “so that JJ can continue to make his George Lucas homage” considering he started it with Trek ’09?

I say good, let Abrams resurrect Star Wars from the dustbin onto which the Lucas-vomited prequels has left it…and let a different director handle Trek-3. Maybe someone who’s outgrown lens flares…

482. Star Wars Prequels fan - January 24, 2013

@Trekkiegal

So if you have reported me to the administrators,well I guess i should report you too.

You cant handle the truth like a lady so you go crying to mummy or in other words trek movie.

Sorry but I am not intimidated or impressed by you.

Lost all respect when you pretended to be a minority .

OR ARE YOU STILL LYING ABOUT THAT?

I can put 1 million dollars on the line to prove that you lied about your race.

You childish clues was a dead give away

I like and welcome all trek romantic ship…Unlike you, I have an no obsessive hatred for any of the ship.

All the time I spent on this board before your Token statement caught my eyes for the second time. my comments has been nothing more but worrying about the box office performance and the critical reception of this Trek into darkness and also the competition it faces in may or in other words…IRON MAN 3.

You on the other hand seem to do nothing but whine about how Spock should not have a girlfriend…blah…blah…blah and worse you keep calling uhura a sex object and a TOKEN.

All you comments is dedicated to bashing a romantic plot of a film that was 5 minutes.

I think you are the one that is negatively obsessed and not me.

483. Aashlee - January 24, 2013

I haven’t read comics since the ’70s. Since then, the closest thing has been “MAD Magazine.” After looking at the sample comic pages, however, I’m thinking about finding a comic book store and giving this one a go. I love the artwork, and I’m intrigued by the character dynamics in the story. My husband may regret that I ever saw this thread, LOL!

Good luck with this series, Bob Orci et al.!

484. Jemini - January 24, 2013

445: Trekkiegal63
maybe you should ask yourself why you feel the need to talk about your personal life here, in a sci-fi thread where it’s totally irrelevant, as to prove to us that you’re a normal person.
I always find it disconcerting when someone on the internet do that.

“But since you like to assume the absolute worst (mainly because you don’t like that I don’t like your pairing so you’re determined to view me as public enemy number one”

it seems that I have infected you with my “petulant” virus.
I’m assuming nothing here that you haven’t admitted doing yourself.
For instance, you have preconceptions about people that like the S/U romance and you seem to hold the opinion that one’s interpretation of a scene or plot is made invalid by that simple fact, regardless the comment having a “shipping” nature.

I don’t see you as the public enemy number one. I don’t know you and, frankly, your opinion about star trek won’t affect my life to any degree.
In this context and in the tone of some of your comments in this site I see you someone who, contrary to what is stating here and keeps telling herself , takes things way too seriously and is wasting a lot of time and energy over silly arguments on the internet, regardless your unsuccessful effort to make it seems that you’re above other people that are passionate about their opinions just like you and that you seem to consider “insane” .

For the record, I don’t care if you hate or love Spock, Uhura, star trek, cinderella, lost , walt disney, the smurfs or whatever
I didn’t reply to your argument because I stopped to care about it as soon as you minimized me as “just a shipper” even though my comment didn’t even have that tone. I realized that you were making assumptions and you had already established that I was wrong for the sole fact that I may like the pair that you don’t like. Therefore, I pointed up that you’re biased as well and it’s presumptuous by you to establish that I was the only one whose interpretation could be influenced by my previous opinion of the characters all the while you seemed to think that your own negative opinion and preconceptions didn’t make you biased
In short, you could disagree with what I said without bringing the whole “shipping” stuff in the topic as a way not so well disguised way to discreet what I said. That’s not the most mature way to start a discussion.

“The problem with you is that you take anything said against the pairing you love as a personal affront. Learn to separate!”

Read back my original comment and your response, your assumptions and what you have transformed this discussion into and let’s see who is having an exaggerate reaction here is who is making assumptions about who.
I was merely commenting the comic in a page about it… little I know that I would start provoke an argument with that.

“I am passionate about my beliefs, yes. I have reason to be, both as a woman and a mother of a daughter. Especially when these beliefs encompass far more than just Spock and Uhura’s romantic relationship – they’re just one piece of a very large pie. Again, I have not tried to hide this passion. As for obsessive and offensive, I think you have me beat, darling.”

you’re funny because you really seem to think you’re serving some greater purpose (for our society or something like that ) by posting multiple comments in a site about a work of fiction and in a page where people are just having fun commenting a comic book.
That’s not what I’d call a “hobby” and “healthy escape” from reality

Good lord..I hope for your daughter (assuming that she exists ;) ) that she doesn’t like S/U (or any other “token romance” ;)) or if she does she will avoid the topic with you.

ps: anyway where I’m the one being obsessive here, If I can ask? ^^
compared to you, I hardly post comments here and chances are that this is my last one because I really don’t have the willpower to keep replying to you and read this site all day.
(even though I kinda force myself to write my opinions where people don’t speak my language, it helps me improving my bad english ;) so thank you after all. )

457. Jack Zymurgy
” do you think a few hundred posts in a sci-fi thread is going to change the wold?”

this? I understand why some fans in other sites say that they ignore the comments section of this site (let alone participate in discussions) can’t blame them.

485. Jefferies Tuber - January 24, 2013

If he walks away from directing the third film, then it’s a win for Star Trek. His [lens flares and sexy fun] style may be appropriate to the younger, in-development Trek of the first two movies. They’ve laid plenty of tracks on the idea that this movie finishes the process of bonding the crew and turning Kirk into the Captain. So maybe it’ll be great.

But honestly, if we have to wait until 2017 to satisfy JJ’s ego to direct both of the great franchises, then damn him and his outsized ego.

Bottom line: we should not have to wait four years – again.

486. Aurore - January 24, 2013

I could say why I think Mr. Abrams accepted to direct Star Wars in spite of his initial refusal to do so, but, this would turn this thread into a….conspiracy one.

And, we wouldn’t want that, would we?

:)

P.S.: Good luck, Mr. Abrams.
I never cared for the Star Wars franchise, this may change… thanks to you….

487. PaulB - January 24, 2013

#481 – Oh, for crying out loud, would you shut up about all that crap? YOU are the one filling this forum with your nonsense at this point, and it’s annoying as hell. If you can’t grow up and get control of yourself, you SHOULD be reported to the site admins.

Are you intentionally making this a miserable forum? Is that your purpose? If not, then you should really consider KNOCKING IT OFF and giving the rest of us a break.

488. Robman007 - January 24, 2013

Actually, Into Darkness won’t face too much Iron Man 3 competition…both are Paramount film properties, so the marketing and releases for each are well within the norm….although I do have my feelings of slight dread regarding the performance of this film in general. It wasn’t promoted until a few months ago, the promotion has gone silent again (waiting for the Super Bowl) and it was 4 years ago that the first was released (and some thought the sequel was cancelled for some time)….so, who knows. Slightly worried, but the 3D conversion should make it some money

Now, add the fact that JJ is doing Star Wars…who knows…doesn’t look that good since he stated once he would NOT do Star Wars, and now has gone back on that statement…could he have had issues with the pre-production, production and post produciton of this film that caused him to change his mind? Hope not…but then again the new films will get a new director…maybe a Christopher Nolan (who’d do an awesome trek film)…who knows…

489. Robman007 - January 24, 2013

My only worry would be about how the cast will react to him potentially not being a part of Trek 3….I thought I read that the cast was locked down for 3 films…and I’m pretty sure if he directs 1 Wars film, he will direct 3 Wars films…so, we could be looking at the end of the TOS reboot series, which would be a shame. I don’t see any of the actors playing the parts in a TV series.

Still, I have a feeling if this is true he is done with DIRECTING Trek. He won’t do another Trek after Star Wars (as he will want to do one of his “original” projects), and you know that Disney will want another SW film to be released in 2-3 years, so his involvment in directing Trek is over with.

490. PaulB - January 24, 2013

#488 – No reason to assume Abrams will direct all three Star Wars films. After all, the original trilogy had three directors.

491. Red Dead Ryan - January 24, 2013

Disney owns “Iron Man 3″. They bought the property from Paramount a couple of years ago.

492. Red Dead Ryan - January 24, 2013

#489.

Maybe. I would think that Disney would want some consistency between the pictures. Having three different directors might result in a varied level of quality, as well as look and feel.

493. Star Wars Prequels fan - January 24, 2013

@ 486 PaulB

I think you should tell trekkiegal63 to shut up and have her go the the Twilight forums,she is the one that is so invested in the romance of the 09 trek film as that is all she can talk about.

I am not the one that went into details about what spock and uhura do in their private moments or why they should not be together.

I only took a huge interest in the romance when TREKKIEGAL used a derogatory word to describe it.

However What we should be talking about is 3 things.

1. the impending box office of film in other words the quantity of the film

2.The critics reviews in other words the quality of the film

3.The competition…Trek going up against an Avenger after it earning 1.5 billion at the box office is going to be though.

4. The TOS purist warming up to NU-Trek and JJ Abrams.

As fans this are the thing we need to be focused on if we want this film to be successful on a global stage.

Face it , star trek is not as bullet proof as star wars,if this film is bad or given a rotten reviews by the film critics it is likely to fail at the box office.

Whether Spock has or does not have a girlfriend is not the priority.

However we all should refrain from using a derogatory words to describe any Trek related stuff.

494. JJ's Secret - January 24, 2013

Now Star Wars once again has grabbed the headlines from Star Trek. JJ let this happen. Make no mistake…

Every interview from now on will be about Star Wars and him directing it.. and there will be no more Star Trek. Trek is dead, folks… we might as well get over that, and JJ Abrams killed it.

Star Wars has won the hearts and minds of the younger generation. Star Trek is gone.

495. Red Dead Ryan - January 24, 2013

CAN YOU TWO TAKE YOUR BITCHFEST SOMEWHERE ELSE PLEASE!!!???

JESUS F**KING CHRIST ALREADY!!!!

496. Sk8r_gurl - January 24, 2013

Wow….not gonna lie, a little broken-hearted right now….will be curious to see TM’s take, plus official statements from JJ, et al….

497. Robman007 - January 24, 2013

@493…seriously? Trek is dead? Wow, way to take the melodrama to new heights. Awesome.

Abrams is a professional. IF this is true, he will be professional and only talk about Trek when Trek is to be talked about. He signed a contract, per his words, to be involved in Trek 3 in some form or fashion (never said as Director)..the cast are ALL SIGNED up to do 3 Trek films. The only way this film fails is if it fails to make money at the box office. That COULD happen, being that film has not been promoted until just recently, but it SHOULD do good, for about a week or two..I expect it will bank about as much as the last film

The reaction antics are getting old.

@494..agree with you. The “hurt feelings” antics are turning into a troll fest. Dude needs to just STFU already. Getting old.

498. BulletInTheFace - January 24, 2013

#475: Yep, you’re a racist troll–thank you for confirming this.

#493: Trek is dead? LOL. The absurd melodrama some people here engage in. :::snort:::

499. Baby - January 24, 2013

What are you all taking about?

JJ Arams is not directing star wars. he turned it down because of Trek.

In all honesty, I don’t think JJ can handle the pressure of Star Wars

Star Wars is larger than life, the only franchise that has managed to come close to Star Wars in this area has been Harry Potter. However the 8 harry potter films edges out the 6 star wars film in terms of the critical reception thank to the prequels and return of the jedi.

Although,I do think revenge of the sith was better than return of the jedi, if you take away Hayden Christensen’s bad acting.

500. MJ - January 24, 2013

@493. The real secret is that you are a fuking moron.

501. MJ - January 24, 2013

No wait, that is no secret.

502. BulletInTheFace - January 24, 2013

#498: Actually, he is–it’s all over the Internet today.

503. MJ - January 24, 2013

Oh, yea, JJ will do a great job and I’ll see his SW movie(s) and probably like it/them a lot more than the prequel movies, but YOU DON’T CROSSOVER BETWEEN TREK AND SW…it is not right. It’ like Alabama and Auburn, Lions and Hyenas, Chist and Antichrist, Matter and Antimatter.

This is WRONG !!!!!

504. Jack - January 24, 2013

Will Neill Blomkamp be interested in Trek 3?

Brad Bird? Alex? Abrams?

BTW. This is potentially great news for Trek, IMO. It draws more attention to JJ and to STID.

And we’re back to complaining about a lack of marketing? On a thread that’s about a comic that’s drawing major media attention to the movie? There’s still three months to go.

505. Jack - January 24, 2013

504. And of course, Bob. Would Bob want to direct if JJ doesn’t?

506. Jack - January 24, 2013

Why’s there crossover? Now we can finally see proof that JJ’s Trek ISN’T Star Wars.

507. JJ's Secret - January 24, 2013

@499 MJ

Thank you so much for your insightful and intelligent comment.

508. Phil - January 24, 2013

@493. Lighten up. If anything, JJ has more reason to promote STID that much arder. Also, it seems to me he hasn’t abandoned a current project in the past to focus on a future one – look at Super 8.

509. Jack - January 24, 2013

Hey, ILM did fx for the best Trek movies. And they certainly didn’t look or feel like Star Wars. My point, is that involvement on one doesn’t preclude involvement in the other.

And maybe he’ll turn Star Wars back into a space movie and an adventure instead of an ILM character animation demo reel / the tale of a magic slave boy and a tax dispute.

510. Trekkiegal63 - January 24, 2013

Jemini:

Several people have now requested that this cease (lord knows *I* wish this would cease, it’s gotten way, way, WAY too out of hand) and I believe we should respect their wishes. If you wish to continue your outrage over my opinion over the pairing you idolize, feel free to email me(juliebutler1963@hotmail.com – not a real name, just an email I use to purchase stuff on the internet with). I can promise you, however, you probably will not like what I have to say as my opinion on the token romance and the dangerous psychological side-effects of shipping has not changed.

Rose (as in Keachick):

I also extend this invitation to you, and you’re, perhaps, the only of the shippers I’ve spoken with on this thread I would look forward to hearing from as you seem capable of holding a rational discussion without devolving into mudslinging.

Star Wars Prequels fan:

Don’t bother emailing, I don’t respond to trolls. Also, do seek psychiatric help.

Crazydaystrom:

Thanks for the feedback! Question: do you have to read them in sequence or can I pick and choose? Just wondering if I need to buy them in order.

Everyone:

I can see, logistically and financially, why Abrams would jump at an opportunity like that, but it certainly does feel like a betrayal.

511. Jack - January 24, 2013

Are you kidding me with the betrayal stuff? I love Trek. Bit I’m also a huge Star Wars fan. And Star Trek wouldn’t still be around had it not been for Star Wars.

Anyway, a Total Film story on reevaluating Jar Jar Binks, has the following best comment ever:

“Hadouken76Nov 4th 2012, 10:56 Most peoples’s annoyance- among other thing – is over Lucas’ insistence that the Phantom Menance is primarily for kids, not grown ups weaned on the original trilogy. Fair enough, but compare the contrasting plots: Episode 4: Farmboy meets Wizard, hires Pirate to rescue princess from bad guy, rescue princess, good guys blow up bad guys fortress, the end. Episode 1: 2 Emissaries negotiate lifting blockade because of a taxation on trade routes…rescue fishman, rescue not-Queen, escape to desert planet… find slave boy, find out slave boy is made of magic, wins jet race, not-Queen goes to space UN meeting, not-evil chancellor says something about a motion of no confidence, not-Queen turns out to be Queen, asks fish people to join them, big battle on some grass, magic boy is trained as good guy.”

512. Phil - January 24, 2013

Before we burn JJ at the stake, lets not forget he has an exclusive contract with Paramount. Might not be a bad idea to reserve judgement on this until word comes from Paramount, BR, or Lucas/Disney…..

513. Star Wars Prequels fan - January 24, 2013

I told you all

star wars is just larger than life……

and no the Prequels don’t suck.

Am sure there will be no TOKENS in the new star wars films.

514. Aashlee - January 24, 2013

My comment, #482, was a positive one about the upcoming comic, and I’m afraid it got buried in ReactionFest January 24. So, let me say again, Bob Orci et al., that this first generation fan is looking forward to it.

Sending POSITIVE vibes your way. (I know, a unique experience for this thread, but here it is, all the same.) Again, good luck with this venture.

515. Disinvited - January 24, 2013

Whether true or baselss, I can’t wait for the latest explanation on why Disney Wars has absolutely no effect on the marketing of the soon to be released Trek sequel.

If it is a false planted piece, who could so convince a woman that everyone in the industry considers a Paramount mouthpiece? It would have to be a Disney source.

If true, maybe that’s what’s been tying Anthony up, i.e. getting story verified?

The only thing that surprises me if true is an anouncement that Disney has also brought Bad Robot back into the fold by buying them out hasn’t occurred?

516. Son of MJ - January 24, 2013

BobOrci strongly suggest to JJ that he should hire Nick Meyer to direct the into darkness sequel.

517. Phil - January 24, 2013

@512. RE: SW prequels sucking – I have three words for you. Jar Jar Binks.

518. Jack Zymurgy - January 24, 2013

Holy crap. Are y’all STILL having this same fight?

Grow up. All of you. Even if you are on the “right side” of the argument, keeping it going this long makes you wrong and immature.

519. MJ - January 24, 2013

@515 Nick Meyer is way beyond his prime. It’s been a generation since he directed a movie.

No doubt you want Shatner in the film too, right?

520. Patch - January 24, 2013

April is tied into this after all, from the looks of it…I’m starting to think my earlier guesstimations that John Harrison is John Frederick Paxton’s son are correct. I also think that the little girl Harrison says he can cure is April’s granddaughter.

I need to really sit down and sort this all out in my head, but I’m starting to see the hazy outline of a story that fits what we know so far. I think the story involves April, John Paxton, some form of Augment technology, a Section 31-ish organization or a military supplier to Starfleet, and a tie-in to the events depicted in “Demons”, “Terra Prime”, “Borderlands”, “Cold Station 12″, and “The Augments” from Enterprise.

Too late in the day to think more about it. G’night, all.

521. Eliasj - January 24, 2013

Considering…the crap they served us with episodes I-III, I d say star wars is for a treat!

522. Son Of MJ - January 25, 2013

MJ what does shatner have to do with my suggestion of Nick Meyer being brought back to direct.
Their are plenty of GREAT directors out their who take extended periods of time between projects.

but nice attempt at baiting me which is obviously what your implying shatner comment was intended to do.

523. SOn of MJ - January 25, 2013

And just as a FYI Nicholas Meyer is actually directing a film that is about to start filming next month, for a holiday release THIS YEAR.
And he has still been writing films every few years as wel.
So definately not past his time MJ

524. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 25, 2013

#493 – “Now Star Wars once again has grabbed the headlines from Star Trek.”

Only because so many people decide to make such a big deal out of a headline. JJ Abrams announcement that he is considering directing a Star Wars film is tomorrow’s shredded bedding for small animals…

I am surprised to see JJ Abrams change his mind, however it is hardly treachery. I think it would be quite something if JJ Abrams was able to direct successful movies belonging to two separate and popular sci-fi franchises. I actually wrote that here some time back, last year.

I am trying to think when Disney hopes to have the Star Wars film released – 2015? So if JJ starts on the SW movie in the next few months and allowing for a year in post-production, then the movie will likely be ready Summer 2015 release. However, he could still start directing and filming the third Star Trek movie while the SW movie is in its final stages of post-production. I am allowing for each movie to take about 18 months to make from the moment principle photography starts. I am hoping for a 2016 release of the third Star Trek – date 8 September 2016!

It would certainly be a tight schedule…

Could it be done, if JJ Abrams had the responsibility of just directing the Star Wars movie only? What do you think, Bob Orci?

525. Rose (as in Keachick) - January 25, 2013

#509 – Thank you. The discussion has become so convoluted what with the race card being thrown in where it never belonged.

To clarify, I do not consider myself to be a shipper. I defend the presence of a Spock/Uhura relationship in the movie because I do not see why such a romance between two consenting adults cannot be part of a storyline of any film. The fact that the writers chose to pair up Spock with Uhura was unexpected, but interesting all the same.

I think Hollywood, which does tend to represent/mirror much of society’s attitudes as much as influence them, has demeaned people, men and women, in the way they have been portrayed at times. Why is it that you (and others) focus on women you think are being degraded into mere sex objects etc. In any romance, there are TWO people and most romances are heterosexual. One could also ask why so many single, independent, career driven males are shown dating and/or sleeping with someone.

In most of the popular TV programmes coming from the US in the last decade have shown a variety of male and female characters. The best known and some of my own favourites are the three CSI series and the two NCIS series. I also like Bones, Boston Legal and of course Fringe. How are the leading male and females portrayed in most, if not all, of these dramas?

Well, the women are mostly single, independent, competent, hardworking with interesting careers that keep them focused. In CSI-NY, one of the female characters is married with a child to one of the other male characters who works with her. I doubt that anyone bothers to focus on him in a discussion like this, only her. Why? Is that fair, even sensible?

Take some more examples –
Gibbs from NCIS is now single, however he has been married several times. Anyone focus on his failed relationships and his various dalliances, one of the women played by Jamie Lee Curtis? What about Anthony Dinozzo’s constant flirting and desire to go on dates with women? However, as soon as single female characters like Abby or Ziva have a romantic interlude, then all the stuff that you have written or quoted here no doubt gets said by those with attitudes similar to yours…

Am I correct here? If so, why the sexist disparagement levelled against women shown to be in a relationship with a guy? No such disparagement seems to be levelled against guys. How are Dinozzo or Gibbs any different from Abby or Ziva?

The actual impression from watching many television programmes and movies made in recent times is that the females, even when they are in a romantic relationship, tend to be strong, career focused, independent women in their own right. That certainly seems to be the case with Lt Uhura in this new alternate universe. In fact, she appears to be the most psychologically balanced and capable as anyone. She does not NEED Spock. She chooses Spock! In truth, to judge by what has been told in the comic series, Spock may not WANT her around, but actually NEEDS her, among others, in order to help him recover and regain emotional balance.

I think that most of the time, it is the men who appear to be emotionally less balanced and more needy than the women. It could be that this is actually in reality, more usual, *normal* than most like to admit. We women just try to do what we can – no one is perfect and we love ‘m anyway, imperfect though it may be as well sometimes. However, most women are no longer prepared to take unmitigated crap from guys in the way that often women in the past did or were forced to.

526. Ralph Pinheiro - January 25, 2013

Johnson said: “a character we have not yet seen in the new timeline shows up in Issue #1 and plays a critical role in the story”

I believe we will see, probably, Robert April in the film, since you don’t need to read the comic to know the story.Then someone plays April. My guess is Peter Weller.

527. Jack Zymurgy - January 25, 2013

Ralph, as I posted earlier, April as drawn in the comic looks amazingly like character actor Nolan North. So I doubt Weller is playing April

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kWW6_tbGtvA/UQFIrPhmwwI/AAAAAAAAAEc/L_ROUR09puA/s640/IsNorthPlayingApril.001.jpg

528. LogicalLeopard - January 25, 2013

420. Curious Cadet – January 24, 2013
@413 Jack Zymurgy,
“Expanding on my Nolan North as Captain April speculation, here is Nolan’s head shot compared to the comic image…”

GOOD CALL!

This is the best evidence I have seen that April MAY be in the actual movie itself. North is primarily a voice actor, but perhaps that makes up for his on-screen presence what he lacks in the Bruce Greenwood factor. Plus fans won’t be scrutinizing him since he doesn’t have the same stature as a Weller or Greenwood.

Bottom line, this is a far more likely scenario than Harrison being a reverse-aged April, or Weller being April (thus making a liar out of Orci).

***********************************

I noticed that Nolan North looked a lot like April, meaning the original “Roddenberry April.” But the only thing that made me wonder was the fact that he seems to mostly be a voice actor. Look through his IMDB, not much recent acting I saw. So I’m not sure if he’ll be playing anything more than a computer voice or alien voice.

529. Ralph Pinheiro - January 25, 2013

526. Jack Zymurgy

HUUMMM! It is getting more interesting, my friend.

530. Jack Zymurgy - January 25, 2013

LogicalLeapord,

In his video game work, he provides all the motion capture model work in addition to voice work. In a sense, he performes all the cuts scenes and was digitized. It is a very demanding firm of acting. Abrams was apparently impressed with his work in the Uncharted series.

531. Jack Zymurgy - January 25, 2013

Posting from a tablet doubles my typo count. Sorry to all the grammar Nazis for the above post

532. LogicalLeopard - January 25, 2013

529. Jack Zymurgy – January 25, 2013
LogicalLeapord,

In his video game work, he provides all the motion capture model work in addition to voice work. In a sense, he performes all the cuts scenes and was digitized. It is a very demanding firm of acting. Abrams was apparently impressed with his work in the Uncharted series.

************************

I wasn’t trying to downplay his acting abilities, or the particular demands that voicework or motion capture work entail. I was just saying that if you have a guy who primarily does voice work or motion capture work, it’s a more likely possibility that he’d be doing the same thing in this movie as well. Especially given the fact that Trek employs voice actors for aliens and computers, and would need motion capture work for digitally reproduced aliens. For all we know, he could be playing a Gorn.

However, I’m not saying that he’s excluded from live acting, I’m just saying I woudln’t be surprised if he wasnt.

The resemblance to the “Roddenberry April” is very striking however. I’d love to see that happen. To compare:

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2487790336/nm0636046

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:CptRobertApril.jpg

533. John Lawton - January 25, 2013

Hey boborci,

Thrilled to see you on here, interacting so casually with the “little people”. Thanks!

I was wondering if you have any idea what if any affect Abrams’ directing SWVII will have on the 3rd Trek film.

Thanks again!

534. Phil - January 25, 2013

Well, until Trek 13 is greenlit, and a story developed (remember the fun we all had with that last time?) The effect is that someone, somewhere will be hired to direct it. Of course, if the movie is a dud, we really won’t have to worry about that now, will we?

535. Chris - January 25, 2013

@ Bob Orci

I saw the following at the IMDB site and wondered if it’s true.

——————-
The original opening for the movie was going to feature the Enterprise NCC-1701 under the command of Robert April, with George Kirk second in command.

At the climax of the scene the Enterprise would have been destroyed, and the Enterprise featured through most of the movie would have been its successor, the NCC-1701-A (which didn’t debut until Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home in the original timeline).

However, Paramount told Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci that the one thing they absolutely could not do was destroy the Enterprise, even if they were going to replace it with a newer one, and so the “original” Enterprise was rewritten into the USS Kelvin, with Captain April becoming Captain Robau

536. Paramountsucks - January 25, 2013

Well Chris, that would have been cool.

537. Ultra PC destroying society - January 25, 2013

You idiots arguing about sex/racism are so retarded I had to write something. First off, the half of you claiming racism/sexism don’t know what you are talking about and have misunderstood most of the comments. The other half arguing with them is silly because it is like having a screaming match with a wall. Put down the Star Trek and stop watching TV and go read a book you damned idiots.

538. Steve T. in NY - January 25, 2013

@ Bob Orci- Great Fan here.. but I do have a bit of an issue with the last comic series you guys did before ST09. About how Geordi built the science ship, yet in the actual movie.. it was the Vulcans who did. So what gives? Also, there was never a mention of the Borg by Nero’s Crew.. and it seemed that while the comics were a great read, they really had nothing to do wit hthe actual movie we saw.

I’m just hoping that this new series will be more of a tie in with the movie.. which will allow the moviegoer to enjoy the film as is.. but for the “fans”.. well reading the comic will give us just that much more..
On a side note- I really enjoy Hawaii 5-O, and I know Bad Robot does Person of Interest which I also enjoy..

539. Son Of MJ - January 25, 2013

Those who are saying that April in the comic doesnt look like peter weller, I would point out in a number of single panels (like what we see of April in issue 1) Kirk and Co don’t look like CHris pine etc.

540. Chris - January 26, 2013

I think Nero’s arrival caused the original April-commanded Enterprise construction to be built slightly sooner than in the Prime Universe so it had a different hull registry number. The Prime Universe Enterprise looked more like the Kelvin because it was based on Kelvin-era technology. So I think Robert April captained Enterprise NCC-1501 or something like that. But in the NuTrek Universe, that Enterprise is destroyed while under the command of Captain April.

That explains why Pike/Kirk’s Enterprise in ST 2009 was brand new and built much much later than the one in the Prime Universe. It’s actually the successor to April’s Enterprise. And April’s Enterprise probably had a less than heroic ending so the tradition of keeping the hull registry number hasn’t started yet.

541. Ctrl-Opt-Del - January 26, 2013

@539. Chris – January 26, 2013 – Exactly my thoughts on the matter.

One still can’t help but wonder if the ship we see crashing in San Francisco is – in fact – that rushed into service & differently numbered version of the original Enterprise, having undergone some kind of private refit, rather than having been destroyed…

542. Chris - January 27, 2013

@540. Ctrl-Opt-Del – January 26, 2013
That’d be wild. Two Enterprises in one film. Would be fun. But that might be too geek-tastic for mainstream audiences to sink their teeth into. It’d be a great episode of a NuTrek TV series though.

543. Son Of MJ - January 28, 2013

BobOrci
Can I make a suggestion?

For the Bluray 3D/Bluray release of star trek into darkness, perhaps Countdown to Darkness can be made into one of those motion comic features like the watchmen or Buffy season 8 motion comics.

complete with the cast doing the voices would be a cool special feature or heck even a stand alone bluray/DVD release

Something to think about anyways.

544. James McFadden - January 28, 2013

Are we going to see what kind of good looking ships are in Star Trek Into Darkness anytime soon?

545. Bobby Gordon - January 28, 2013

I’ve not been able to read all of the comments from earlier, so apologies if I’ve missed it, but has anyone hypothesized that April commanded the NX-01?
We know from “These Are The Voyages” that it certainly survived as Troy said she’d been on it, So there’s no telling how long it may have been in service before it got decommissioned. And there’s lots of stuff around the net about it being refitted which Doug Drexler designed…. when I watch the trailer I cant help but think that’s what looks like is it crashing into San Francisco bay!

546. New Horizon - January 30, 2013

> …. when I watch the trailer I cant help but think that’s what looks like is it crashing into San Francisco bay!

That would be pretty interesting. Guess we’ll see. :)

547. dswynne - January 30, 2013

@ 537: In the movie, the computer said that the Jellyfish was commissioned by the Vulcans, not built. That doesn’t mean that Geordie LaForge did not built Spock Prime’s ship…

548. Ben Yoris - January 31, 2013

Hi,

I’m from France where unfortunately Star Trek is no mainstream :(

Here’s a theory, after all as we don’t know anything, mine is well worth another…

What if Kirk dies in “Into Darkness ?”
That would be the “tears to the eyes” that J.J. was talking about recently. Spock dying would be too much TWOK to me, and Uhura dying would be … well too easy, and repetitive, Spock having already lost his mother.

What if it’s Kirk who dies ?

And in the third movie, this is the reason to make William Shatner come back in an unexpected move to restore nu Kirk timeline ?

Ok, you can treat me fool :)

549. Trekkiegal63 - January 31, 2013

#524 Rose (as in Keachick):

I apologize for taking so long to get back to respond to this, I had company visiting from out of town and thus very little leisure time to catch up on my Trek news. Luckily it seems, aside from Abrams’ ever expanding career choices, that there hasn’t been too much going on. ;)

First, I need to set the record straight. I am not against romance (between two consenting adults). I am married and have been for a little over twenty years. What I am against? Stereotyping, misrepresentation and the psychological impact both have on those of my gender, particularly the young.

I object to romance being the ONLY representation for a woman in film. If you look at the statistics I posted above you’ll see the bulk of female protagonists are portrayed as a: wife, mother, girlfriend. It’s like taking something beautifully complex, a sonnet of many stanzas, and trimming it down to a haiku.

Or, think of it like a jigsaw puzzle, with one piece representing a woman’s relationships, but there are all these other pieces needed to make a complete picture: one for career, one for hobbies, one for intellectual pursuits, one for accumulated knowledge, one for likes, dislikes, for the moments in life that took her breath away and the moments in life where mistakes were made, etc. In Hollywood we’re really only getting one piece of this beautiful , complex puzzle, one part of what it means to be a woman. Fact of the matter is that, again pointing to those statistics I posted, more men are portrayed as single professionals then are women. There *is* very much a discrepancy.

The danger in this portrayal is that, according to the last two census reports, at least in the US, the majority of the population is now composed of single person households. What kind of message is it sending to these women who chose a career over the traditional marriage/kids/mortgage to have ALL females represented as making a different choice? What message is it sending to teenagers with college and career paths looming ahead of them: ‘let’s see, what’s more important, my continued education and choosing a career path I will be content in until about age 65+, or landing that hot boyfriend like all the girls in the movies have? My worth as a person is totally tied up in who I catch! Hollywood says so!’

We’ve seen evidence of the impact of this singular means of portraying woman on this very thread. I lurked on this board for a long time prior to making my first post (which wasn’t in this thread, btw) and I have never seen anyone make a post such as a single post that when something along the lines of “Nyota Uhura is an extremely competent, intelligent, and compassionate character”. Period. End of sentence. Nothing further to add here. Without “…therefore it is NOT sexist she makes one half of the pairing I ship, can I get an AMEN?! Love that Spock/Uhura!” tacked on the end of it.

And it’s a damn shame.

550. Trekkiegal63 - January 31, 2013

#552 Ben Yoris:

Interesting theory, except we’ve already seen Kirk do the self-sacrifice thing once before, too (Generations). So killing off either Spock OR Kirk would be old hat in an ‘already been there, done that’ kind of sense.

And, of course, there is the logistical reason not to kill Kirk… he is the main character.

Agree or disagree, but my personal feeling is that its going to be Pike, i.e. familiar enough to cause an impact via tears, but, as much as it kills me to say this because I do adore ST:2009 Pike very much (he was the only character in the rebooted universe I actually prefered to his TOS counterpart) also expendable.

551. Ben Yoris - February 1, 2013

#549 Trekkiegal63 :

Thx for your comment.
In my dreams, nu Kirk would not sacrifice himself but would be killed. And I think that’ll ever be a dream as I’m desperate to see William Shatner again…

“Sacrés français !”

552. Skulltrail - February 1, 2013

Pike and Carol Marcus are going to die and not only her also her their unborn child :(

553. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 2, 2013

Trekkiegal63 – Sorry for the delay in replying. I did start a reply but got waylaid by this and that… well, anyway –

“In Hollywood we’re really only getting one piece of this beautiful , complex puzzle, one part of what it means to be a woman. Fact of the matter is that, again pointing to those statistics I posted, more men are portrayed as single professionals then are women. There *is* very much a discrepancy.

The danger in this portrayal is that, according to the last two census reports, at least in the US, the majority of the population is now composed of single person households. What kind of message is it sending to these women who chose a career over the traditional marriage/kids/mortgage to have ALL females represented as making a different choice?”

I am not sure that you read my previous reply because I mentioned several popular US TV programmes which did NOT portray in the way that you suggest. Most of the females represented in those shows did put their careers first and foremost, whether they be lawyers, cops, detectives, forensic scientists… Even in the romantic comedy movie, The Proposal, the main female character was ALL career and even after, she decided to have a go at a romantic relationship, there was no suggestion that she was not going to work at her career.

When we first meet Lt Uhura in Star Trek 09, we soon find out that she has a career in xenolinguistics and communications; that she is very capable of countering the come ons and banter of one young James Kirk and what’s more, BOTH appeared to be enjoying their encounter until Cupcake stepped in…

It appears that Carol Marcus has worked on developing a career when she first meets Kirk, in both this universe and the prime universe.

Maybe you and I just see and watch different things. I don’t watch soap operas, especially American ones, nor do I watch reality shows – like Bachelor/Bachelorette, Top Model etc – can’t stand them. Then again, modelling is a career option and a pretty demanding one by all accounts.

I actually believe that you have got it all wrong. Women are being discouraged socially and economically from embarking on marriage and motherhood and more and more they are being presented with role models like the ones I mentioned above. Girls, like boys, are now expected to be career oriented and what’s more, they are. I think, now, in many affluent western societies like ours, girls are actually beating many boys when it comes to finishing high school, getting degrees etc.

Both men and women are marrying later than they did in the past. The age that the average female will give birth to her first child is now in her late twenties and many are not having any children until their mid thirties, even early forties, hence the increase in demand for fertility specialists. The fertility of the average healthy woman halves by the age of 35.

Sorry – been waylaid again – gotta go see family…

554. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 2, 2013

One of the impressions I have been getting since coming to this site is that a lot of people really want a man coming with the stereotypical attitudes typical of males, but having the outward appearance of a rather sexy attractive looking woman, whether it be Alice Eve playing Carol Marcus or Zoe Saldana playing Lt Uhura. What is the bet that both these female characters can really kick ass?

It is not OK to show either a male or female being *weak* or *vulnerable* or indeed show someone showing consolation/understanding of the *weaker* person’s position. The most obvious, and in fact the most shocking, example is how many people have reacted to the scene with Spock and Uhura in the turbolift. So MANY people misconstrued Uhura show of sympathy and consolation with her trying to jump Spock’s bones – good god, he had just lost everything. Why in hell would an intelligent woman like Uhura even consider doing that and more tellingly, why would so many viewers even consider even for a single microsecond that her affection was not anymore than that shown towards her friend and lover?

Has everybody got Aspergers or something? (no offense to those who are genuine sufferers).

The thing is – Lt Uhura is not just Spock’s girlfriend nor was she ever shown to be just that. Spock is not just a science officer nor is Kirk now just a captain married to his career/starship nor is Dr McCoy just a doctor and so I could go on, but this is what so many people only want to see. I am talking about men here. It seems that so many people prefer their (male) characters to be singular, one dimensional people. Gosh, I mean, the mere thought that Spock or Kirk could actually be someone’s boyfriend…No, no, we can’t have that, if only because it *misrepresents* women (read sarcasm).

Enough already. That is what I say for what it’s worth!

* I am a married mother of three children, two boys 19 and 17 years old respectively and one girl, 10 years old and I fear that my daughter, due to socio-economic circumstances beyond her control, may not get the child(ren) that she may want until she is much older or not at all. That is happening more and more now…and quite a number of women bear a sadness that no amount of money or career can make up for.

555. boborci - February 2, 2013

534 not true. never considered April for movie 1 or destroying enterprise in the opnening.

556. Trekkiegal63 - February 2, 2013

#552: Rose (as in Keachick):

I’m going to repost these because you keep saying there is no gender discrepancy in modern media and I keep telling you there very much *is*. So once again, for posterity (these stats come from seejane.org, you can go to the site and verify them yourself if you so desire – they’re under the research section):

Traditional domestic roles are still gender linked in entertainment, but only in certain media and on certain indicators. In family films, females are more likely than males to be portrayed as parents (56%
vs. 44.1%) and depicted in a committed romantic relationship (65.7% vs. 54.1%). In children’s shows, only parental status varies by gender (females=60% vs. males=29.3%).

Males outnumber females 3 to 1 in family films. In contrast, females comprise just over 50% of the population in the United States. Even more staggering is the fact that this ratio, as seen in family films, is the same as it was in 1946.

Females are almost four times as likely as males to be shown in sexy attire. Further, females are nearly twice as likely as males to be shown with a diminutive waistline. Generally unrealistic figures are more likely to be seen on females than males.

Females are also underrepresented behind the camera. Across 1,565 content creators, only 7% of directors, 13% of writers, and 20% of producers are female. This translates to 4.8 males working
behind-the-scenes to every one female.

From 2006 to 2009, not one female character was depicted in G-rated family films in the field of medical science, as a business leader, in law, or politics. In these films, 80.5% of all working characters are male and 19.5% are female, which is a contrast to real world statistics, where women comprise 50% of the workforce.

… I don’t know how to make this discrepancy more clear. It’s great that you have shows you watch that are trying to be more progressive and equal. It’s a trend I hope and pray continues, but it is not, nor is it even close to being the *norm*.

And for the record, I do not watch soaps (or ‘reality’ tv). Good god, just the idea gives me hives. If you think I have a negative reaction to the token romance in Star Trek can you even imagine me willingly watching a show that CENTERS around token romances, that goes out of its way to portray women as co-dependent, shallow and desperate as their whole point of existence?! That’s not entertaining, that’s TORTURE. One hour of being forced to watch such nonsense and I’d spill all my secrets just to make it stop!

557. Trekkiegal63 - February 2, 2013

#553 Rose (as in Keachick):

*sigh* And this is exactly the type of attitude I’ve been talking about. Exactly the type of belief system I fear the token romance feeds into…

What on Earth leads you to believe that woman who choose a career over marriage and kids are ‘sad’? What on Earth is wrong with having kids later in life? Why on Earth would choosing a career first and kids later mean that these women can’t have fulfilling, enriched lives?!

And lastly, what on Earth is wrong with being single?

I didn’t have my daughter until I was 34 years old. I got married at 29. But you know what, I have no regrets, not at all. Because, god forbid, if something happened to my husband, I have a degree and almost thirty years of experience in my field. I would able to support my daughter and myself without difficulty. Secondly, my husband was not the first love of my life. No, he was the second. My first love? Science. This has been the case since before I hit puberty. I work in the biotech industry. I LOVE my job. As much as I love my husband, value his company and appreciate his place in my life, I would be a happy, content person without him. In other words, I don’t need him to be happy.

I’ve said it a dozen times in this thread and another, I’ll say it again: my objection to the Spock/Uhura romance has nothing to do with Spock and Uhura as characters. I love and adore both. I don’t even object to the whole of ST: 2009, which was a movie I enjoyed enough to watch it multiple times in the theater and buy the bluray. My objection has to do with the quantity of the token romance in film (in an all-encompassing sense), how every film, even films meant to be action films, or science fiction films, have to include one, almost never portraying any other choice or lifestyle for a female protagonist, and the psychological impact this has on those our gender. THAT is my objection.

And as much as I respect you, because you’ve been one of the few to argue on behalf of the Spock/Uhura ship without devolving into insults or red herrings to do it, and I could hug you for that alone, I honestly don’t think we’re ever going to agree. It’s kind of apparent that we have two entirely different belief systems at play here.

558. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 3, 2013

Imagine the psychological impact on those of the female gender of almost never portraying any other choice or lifestyle for a female protagonist, other than having a fulltime career, just like it is portrayed most of time with men?

One thing I have always known from the age of three or four was that I wanted to have children – as in, if I was not meant to have children, I would not have been born a female. It has been that fundamental. However, I did not want to do it alone. Fortunately, I met a good man…

I can be as romantic as anyone and can fantasize a good deal at times. Star Trek has afforded me that opportunity.

One thing that I should explain is that my upbringing was not what many would call the norm – the norm being mum stays at home while dad goes out to work. Mum looks after the house and cooks the meals etc. Mine was the reverse, except that my father rarely cooked and never did housework. He spent a good part of the day in his bedroom with all the venetian blinds in the house closed, drank tea and smoked. He and I both got asthma. He had a mental breakdown and did not work for eight years.

He hated the thought of my sister and I having children and constantly told us not to. He encouraged us to pursue careers – I was meant to be a doctor – yeah right. He would constantly go around saying things like “it’s a bloody awful world”; “there are too many people in the world”; “all babies should be sterilized at birth”(I am not joking, if only I were) . It was actually good/OK for women to have careers and sex – just no babies. Of course, he was a big supporter of women’s rights to abortion, but not so much of a woman’s right not to have an abortion. I don’t think my mum and dad were very happy most of the time in their marriage. Forming any kind of relationship with people has been hard for me, then and now and what friend I did have then he criticized and told me not to see her. So, I don’t know. At least, my husband and I seem to be OK a lot of the time.

I worked fulltime in paid employment since the age of 18 until I had my first child. I never got to be a doctor or anything like it. Difficulties at home, the quagmire that were my emotions were in, learning difficulties and financial pressures meant that I did not get a tertiary education. I finished school with the equivalent of a High School Diploma.

Hollywood can influence social trends but it is also influenced by what is happening in the wider world. I think we will see a shift in how males and females are portrayed, as more stories become available about how work, career affects the women. Unfortunately, Hollywood has always been something of a boy’s club.

The other aspect is that maybe a lot of women have different interests from men. Women’s brain work slightly differently from men’s brains, therefore often the focus may well be different. Men and women are not the same. They may share much in common, but some things are not as important to many women as they might be to men and vice versa.

We often see this distinction on this site.

559. Trekkiegal63 - February 4, 2013

#557 Rose (as in Keachick):

Imagine the psychological impact on those of the female gender of almost never portraying any other choice or lifestyle for a female protagonist, other than having a fulltime career, just like it is portrayed most of time with men?

Well, I would certainly have to imagine such a world, wouldn’t I? Key word here being ‘imagine’. Because the world you just described is not the world we live in (once again I point to the seejane.org stats).

Look, I’m not going to pass judgement on your lifestyle choices, because they were exactly that, your choices and I believe in freewill. But if you assume that all women want to have and raise babies for the sheer fact that they ‘were born female’ as you put it, you would be exceedingly misled. And I’m talking from personal experience here as well as statistically. I know plenty of women, both professionally and personally – women who are good friends of mine – who have opted not to do either marriage or children. In fact, I have a friend I’ve known since high school who got her tubes tied before she was even in a steady relationship just to ensure that a surprise would never sneak up on her unexpectedly. And I’ve already told you that the last two census reports in the US indicated that the majority of the population is now composed of single person households. That’s fact.

Basically, what I’m trying to tell you is this, in as nice of a way as I can say this, don’t assume that because *you* wanted to be a stay-at-home mom that all women secretly want the same thing, because you would be wrong. Your choice was your choice, and I’m glad that you found happiness in it, but, well, you are not representative of all women of the world. Heck, for the longest time (all the way through my twenties) *I* didn’t want kids. I changed my mind, but I still don’t have a really strong affinity for children. I love my daughter more than life itself, and there isn’t anything I wouldn’t do for her, but other people’s kids usually just annoy me (particularly in a supermarket or at a mall). I’m maternal for her because she’s mine and I love her, but she’s about as far as my quote, unquote, ‘maternal instinct’ extends. And there are others like me, I guarantee it.

As for liking romance. Well, that’s your preference, too. It was not my point to come here and say ‘no one can like romance, ever’ (romance fans only freak me out when they get obsessive about it to a rabid degree, as we’ve seen in this very thread). Again, freewill. Variety is the spice of life, different strokes for different folks, etc., etc. etc. But you know what the sad thing is? Those of us who don’t care for the romance genre in cinema aren’t ever given the choice to bypass it, ever, because EVERY SINGLE FILM has a romantic subplot. All of them. Doesn’t matter if it’s an action film, or a science fiction film (my favorite genre), regardless of its roots, it’s going to contain a romantic subplot. Now, picture a plot point you don’t care for. Say you don’t care for hand-to-hand combat scenes, then imagine that every single movie contained one, even if the plot of the movie didn’t call for it, even if placing it in a film was distracting and superfluous. Now can you imagine how frustrating it is for those of us who don’t care for the token romance?

And the thing with me, personally, is that I don’t even hate romance per se, there’s the occasional one done well. “Love Story” for example. I hate stereotypical characters, and the portrayal of relationship co-dependency, which certainly pops up in a lot of romcoms, but romance as a whole, no, I don’t hate it. It’s not my first choice, but it’s not horrible. I just hate that every film must contain one. That every female protagonist in film must be paired up, and that no other lifestyles and choices are ever represented for a woman in modern media. And I hate that this sends the message that all woman must have a man to be ‘interesting’ or ‘complete’. That her worth as an individual is tied up in her love life.

It’s a damaging implication.

560. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 5, 2013

” ‘Imagine the psychological impact on those of the female gender of almost never portraying any other choice or lifestyle for a female protagonist, other than having a fulltime career, just like it is portrayed most of time with men?'”

This was the world I was indoctrinated into only wanting, only needing. I had to fight emotionally for the right to be the woman I, Me, knew I needed to be. One of the last things I remember my father saying was “I hope to God she (meaning me) never has children. She’ll only regret it”. When things get rough, I am still haunted by that – frankly, I doubt you have any comprehension at all.

Well, I would certainly have to imagine such a world, wouldn’t I? Key word here being ‘imagine’. Because the world you just described is not the world we live in (once again I point to the seejane.org stats).”

Well, I don’t have to imagine it because I LIVED it! (See above; ref my previous post).

I am sensitive to what I see is the kind of attitude I was brought up with starting to become the norm in society – ie that career is so much more important than having a relationship and/or a child/children. Women and men are discouraged, socially and economically, from marrying and having children until much later than ever before, with complications and social implications (good and bad) yet to be known. I have already pointed this and other facts out in previous posts. That is reality and this social trend is unprecedented in human history.

Whatever may be shown in the movies is not necessarily being reflected in the attitudes and behaviour of many young men and women in society. Look at the statistics on females and education compared to males. They are doing better at every level in society and they are making use of it.

What films are you watching? You do have a choice. I have pointed out several popular US television series where the female protagonists are not primarily someone’s wife/girlfriend, if indeed there is even anyone mentioned. Have you not seen them? Perhaps these shows may provide good female role models for your daughter to emulate. All you seem to be doing is throwing around statistics.

Not everyone gets to have the career they want either. Are we setting up a lot of young people (men as well as women) for disappointment when they are being pushed to strive for degrees and for careers that they may never have? What’s more, they are often loaded up with student loans (debt) even before (in some cases), they are allowed to vote, drink or have sex. No one can guarantee them employment, let alone something that is fulfilling, rewarding and pays the bills. This is also a reality for many people.

As for coping with crying children in supermarkets: No one likes it, no matter how maternal you might be. I can’t stand that cry, that pitch a teething baby gets. You are NOT supposed to like it! It is a cry for help.

561. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 5, 2013

I have mentioned the age I had my first baby because people here can do basic maths (I would assume) but I was not 18, but much older.

The truth is (I reiterate) that many women leaving having children until much later in life end up not being able to have them or needing to use fertility services. The procedures involved like IVF can be invasive, painful with only a 50-60% success rate. These are things that women need to consider, however many have not.

The Fertility business is making millions of dollars out of women who have often only seen their worth in terms of career and the income it brings in and then one day wake up and realize that they are worth more than that!

You talk about the damaging implication of a woman’s worth just being tied up with her love life. Yes, she is more than someone’s wife/girlfriend and/or mother. However, being “good enough” at making and sustaining such relationships that are most of the time, positive, have worth far greater worth than any money can buy. It is such relationships that sustain our humanity. Society cannot properly function without enough of such relationships being formed and successfully maintained. What’s more, it is hard work with hopefully a little romance being the payoff.

The truth is that our true worth (male and female) is tied up with how we love, if indeed we can love. When I talk love, I don’t just mean the romantic kind, but all kinds of love. The love for your child and the parent of your child is where it usually starts, helped along with mother and baby pheromones that are poured just after birth…

562. Trekkiegal63 - February 5, 2013

#560 Rose (as in Keachick):

I think you and I would both agree that your childhood wasn’t the norm. And trust me when I say I am very sorry you had to live through that. It sounds just awful. But you persevered, which is a testament to your strength. And you made a choice about your future that you were happy with. And that is what is at the base of this all… choice.

According to the USCB, the world population is now around 7.064 billion people. And, as a woman of science, I get a fiendish delight from graphs, so here’s one for you predicting the global population up to 2100: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World-Population-1800-2100.svg

As you can clearly see, the human race is in no danger of dying off any time soon. In fact, I think it more likely that our sun will exhaust its supply of hydrogen and go red giant before humankind ceases being prolific with the baby making. Why am I bringing this up? Because woman have a choice, they are not required to stay at home and pop out 2.5 kids each to prevent extinction.

If they want to pursue romance and raise babies, more power to them, but if they want to join the workforce and put the bulk of their time and energy into their careers, that’s fabulous. If they want to do both, like me, that’s also awesome! Our futures, our careers, our lives are in our hands. And if a woman changes her mind half way through her life, that is okay, too. Who are you to judge how she spends her money, or what age it was she decided to wait to to have kids? She is made aware of the health risks when she seeks out the treatment, and she makes that choice, as is her right.

The problem is recognizing that we have that choice. Especially when we’re dealing with subtle psychological attacks from media on image, and relationships ideals.I ‘keep throwing around statistics’ as you say because statistics matter, math is the only universal language. And even though you’ve found a few tv shows that may showcase strong, independent women, they are not common. *Especially* not in film. (Too be honest, I don’t actually watch a lot of tv. I’m more of a movie buff. My husband and I had a conversation just the other day that our netflix account gets far, far more use than our cable connection, if it weren’t for the “Walking Dead” I’d probably just cancel the cable).

And I’m sorry, but a persons entire worth is not tied up in love. Don’t get me wrong, it’s important, yes, all bonds are important, i.e. friendship, family, romantic partners, but they aren’t the single defining factor. By all accounts Hitler loved Eva Braun, Napoleon loved Josephine, the BTK killer (an infamous seriel killer here in the US) was married, with children and went to church every Sunday… didn’t negate the fact that they were all wretched, horrible human beings, did it? The ability to love is certainly a trait in our favor, but its our actions that make us either great, or terrible.

563. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 6, 2013

I am not much of a movie-buff. I like TV – except for the commercials which are so invasive, insulting and interrupt the continuity of whatever programme you are watching.

I agree that the world’s population will not become extinct if lots of people don’t have babies. I agree also that many people are also shown to have what could be described as Jekyll-Hyde personalities. Take some of those Nazi SS men, who went home to their wives and children and were the *perfect*husbands and family men and yet by day, were torturing people or ordering the gassing and incineration of another few hundred “untermenschen”. Unfortunately, good family life does not guarantee good behaviour outside the family necessarily. It is a place to start though.

We agree that there should be legitimate choice available for people and that they should be supported and respected in the choices they make. Sometimes, I do think that women who enjoy being someone’s girlfriend and/or mother, do not necessarily receive the same consideration as other more career minded people do at the moment in our society.

The fact that when I wrote a suggestion for a sub-plot about Captain Kirk of Star Trek meeting an alien woman and have a romantic relationship, many people here simply referred to her as a “Mary Sue” or something. It did not matter that she may be important to the main character of the story, Kirk, in this case. I’m not sure if it is the movie makers who are devaluing and belittling the role of any girlfriend of an (important) character, or many of joe-public themselves. In other words, perhaps it is that many people don’t appear to value their own or other people’s romantic attachments well enough and that is reflected in their reaction to any similar being shown in a film. I am not specifically saying that is you, but it is an impression I get at times from other people and attitudes in general.

Anyway, trekkiegal, it has been interesting engaging in this discussion and to see each other’s perspectives. I am a bit more sensitized to certain trends I see happening that I do not feel that are necessarily beneficial longterm for our society, ie for either men and/or women (and children) than many might be. I guess what I am trying to point out is more in the manner of a message or warning.

I am reminded of the Chinese curse of being born in interesting times. These are indeed interesting, as well as very exciting, times. So much choice, so many opportunities for many people, especially for women, that were not there before in our history! Yikes…and YAY!

564. IG-69 - February 6, 2013

I really enjoyed the comic. I liked the last ‘Countdown’ an awful lot and this one definitely didn’t disappoint.

If anything, this version of Robert April looked a lot like the fella they use in the Dos Equis ads, if anything.

The Most Interesting Man in the Multi-Trek-Verse?!

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