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Watch: Brannon Braga Talks Original Plan For Enterprise + More From Geek Magazine Star Trek Roundtable February 5, 2013

by TrekMovie.com Staff , Filed under: Magazine,Merchandise,Star Trek Into Darkness,Trek Franchise,Trek on TV,Viral Video/Mashup/Images , trackback

The recently relaunched Geek Magazine features a cover story in its new issue about Star Trek, including a roundtable discussion with a number of notable Treksperts, including Brannon Braga and David Goodman. The two-hour talk includes a lot of interesting stuff including Braga talking about his original plan for Star Trek Enterprise. Find out more about that and the new issue of Geek below, plus watch the entire roundtable discussion.   

 

 

Watch: Star Trek Roundtable Talk with Braga, Altman, Goodman, Roddenberry

With 2013 being a big year for Star Trek, the newly revived Geek Magazine is featuring Trek on its cover which includes a special free-wheeling two-hour round table discussion with a panel of Treksperts. Moderated by Free Enterprise writer/producer Mark A. Altman, the panelists include "Star Trek: Enterprise" co-creator Brannon Braga, son of Gene Roddenberry, Rod Rodenberry, Access Hollywood chief film critic Scott Mantz and David Goodman who was a producer on Enterprise and wrote the recently released "Federation: The First 150 Years" as well as the classic Star Trek parody for Futurama.

The roundtable is is summarized in the latest issue, here is an interesting excerpt from the article….

DAVID GOODMAN: The format hadn’t changed in a sense since Next Generation because the way we told stories on Enterprise was very much the same show.
BRANNON BRAGA: That was not how we wanted to do it. We wanted to do a show that was set on Earth, and it was about building the first starship, a little like J.J.’s movie. There was going to be the Klingon attack and the urgency to get the ship off the ground, to protect Earth. The end of the first season was going to be the liftoff of the Enterprise.
ROD RODDENBERRY: I love that idea.
BRANNON BRAGA: The network just wanted a ship show. They wanted the format.
MARK A. ALTMAN: Even with the success of the new feature franchise, is the reason there’s still such a hunger for a new TV show is because you can concentrate on characters in a way the movies can’t? Movies inherently have to be about some big event. And when they’re not, say, Insurrection, they’re deemed a failure. Because you have to put Earth in peril; there have to be big stakes for a movie.
BRANNON BRAGA: Going to these conventions, it’s enlightening. People aren’t talking about the movies at all. I’ll get a couple of ‘Oh, I liked First Contact," but all the questions are about the series. That’s how it started. That’s what it is. Some of the movies are great. Some are not. It’s not the same. Star Wars is all movies. Star Trek is TV.

Geek has even released the entire discussion online, you can watch it below…

In addition to featuring a candid and freewheeling conversation about the past, present and future of Star Trek, there are sidebars on Why Wrath of Khan is still the best Star Trek movie, Trek Tech and a commentary on why Mr. Arex should have been in the new movie instead of Chekov. There is also an interview with "Mohawk Guy" at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory who talks about his love for Star Trek that helped inspire the Mars mission.

Says Altman, "What’s fantastic about this article is it brings together so many people who have different interests and opinions across the Trek universe. You have someone like Brannon who worked on Trek for nearly two decades and has unique insight into what goes into making a Trek series and then Rod Roddenberry who’s legacy in the Trek universe is clear. David Goodman has been both a fan and someone who’s worked in the Trek universe and Scott Mantz, although a noted film critic for Access Hollywood, is an uber-fan. I think each person manages to address aspects of the Trek universe that I hadn’t really thought about before, both in terms of why it worked and where it’s going in the future. I think anyone who’s a fan of Star Trek will really enjoy the conversation and hearing the opinions of these noted Trek luminaries on the world in what amounts to one of the greatest convention panels ever."

"For me personally," says Altman, who used to write about Star Trek for such magazines as CInefantastique and Sci-Fi Universe as well as wrote numerous issues of the Star Trek comic book for Malibu and DC Comics, "it was a lot of fun to return to writing about Star Trek for the first time in many, many years after leaving journalism to write, produced and direct movies and television and I really enjoyed the chance to hear everyone’s thoughts about where Star Trek’s going in the future as we speculate on future movies as well as TV incarnations. It’s one of the reasons I founded Geek years ago and am so glad to see the magazine continue to thrive under the editorial stewardship of Dave Williams and his editorial team who are doing such an amazing job with the title. If anything, it makes me that much more excited to see Into Darkness when it comes out in May."

Other features in the magazine includes coverage of Beautiful Creatures, Star Wars, Life in Antarctica and much, much more. The issue is available now on newsstands everywhere. Excerpts from the roundtable will also be available at www.geekexchange.com.


Cover for new Star Trek issue of Geek

An enhanced version is available for download on iTunes through Apple Newsstand.


Enhanced version of latest issue of Geek on iPad

 

 

Comments

1. Johan Albrechtsen - February 6, 2013

Just to contribute with something more worthwhile… interesting vid!

2. summoner2100 - February 6, 2013

A first season Star Trek show set on Earth? Just one more reason that Brannon Braga is a frigging idiot who ruined Trek on tv..

3. njdss4 - February 6, 2013

I’m watching the roundtable right now and it’s fantastic. Thanks for posting this!

4. long-live-the-king - February 6, 2013

lol@#1
typical stagnant Trek fan; a new format instantly shot down when it doesn’t comply with “the standard”.

5. long-live-the-king - February 6, 2013

correction, #2

6. Trekkie626 - February 6, 2013

@2

it’s that sort of mindset that ran Star Trek into the ground.

7. MJ - February 6, 2013

Great, another member of the failed Enterprise person passing the buck. I have yet to hear anyone interviewed from Enterprise that will take any small measure of responsibility for the failure of the show. It’s always somebody else’s fault; its’s always “if only they had listened to me.”

Enough!!! I’m tired of the bullshit excuses and the passing of the buck. The people involved in Enterprise need to show at least some accountability. They are all collectively responsive for a crappy product.

8. MJ Kelly - February 6, 2013

7 the show was not a failure creatively.
It was stuck on a network that never had more than 75 or 80 percent coverage in the country. people who were able to watch it cause it aired in their area, stuck with it and really enjoyed it.
by the 3rd and 4th season the show really came into its own.(about the same season as TNG and DS9 came into their own as well)

And don’t forget it lasted a season longer than TOS.

we get it you didnt like enterprise, but just cause you didn’t doesnt mean there weren’t millions of us out there who did love it.

just look at the raitings for it on HD NET and Sci fi back when the re runs were aired regularly on their.

9. DiscoSpock - February 6, 2013

MJ Kelly,

Enterprise was horrid. “Millions” is really stretching it. I have at least 50 Trek fan friends, and maybe 3 of them liked it.

Yea, it became “watchable” by Season 4, but its a strawman argument because it deceivingly looked better because the first couple of seasons were just so horrible.

You can’t rewrite history.

10. MJ - February 6, 2013

@8. I’m not debating whether you or a small set of fans may have liked the show or not. The point of my post is that here another in a long series of articles with the production or actors on Enterprise who are once again blaming others and passing the blame for the quality and cancellation of the show. Absolutely no one who worked on that show will take any accountability for it….which, when you think about it, is likely while it failed — the people involved had little integrity and were just their to get a paycheck and do standard studio TV without standing up and having principles for what made good Star Trek. They didn’t care enough — plain and simple — and now they pass the blame to others and take no personal resposbility.

11. MJ - February 6, 2013

@9 “Yea, it became “watchable” by Season 4, but its a strawman argument because it deceivingly looked better because the first couple of seasons were just so horrible.”

Exactly. The first seasons were so bad that they had nowhere to go but up, and hence the final seasons give a false impression of a somewhat better product.

12. Romulus - February 6, 2013

Even if the first series was about the building and launch of the NX01 the rest of Enterprise would have been the same, bland TV and rehashed plots. The producers refuse to take any responsibility about that and instead take the easy out by blaming the studio, at least Ron Moore had the balls to walk away.

13. UKTrek - February 6, 2013

MJ, i agree with you.. I really liked Ent from start to end… it’s subjective (taste).. ok Disco you only had 3 friends that liked it.. well all my Trek liking friends liked it.. it’s not a cometition, we all have a different opinion.

For me.. it’s the picking, picking, picking that is the bit of “Trek” that I can’t stand… I just sit back and “allow” myself to enjoy it all for what it is.. a good yarn, with a rich history, and long may it last.

14. UKTrek - February 6, 2013

OOps should read “not a competition”… not “cometition”, appoligies.

15. Jack - February 6, 2013

I like the idea of starting out on Earth and the whole space race-ish hing… Hmmm.

16. Vulcan Soul - February 6, 2013

Think about Braga what you want, but what he says makes alot of sense here. I’ll certainly take him over Abrams pyrotechnics show any day. That is not Trek.

17. Mark L - February 6, 2013

Star Trek was on cruise control since TNG. DS9 was decent, but other shows like Babylon 5 showed you could do so much more in science fiction if you wanted. Paramount just wanted to stick to the same formula. Both Voyager and Enterprise were awful. I’ve never had any desire to re watch either show.

18. chrisfawkes.com - February 6, 2013

Set on earth trying to get a ship into space would have been great

19. chrisfawkes.com - February 6, 2013

Abrams Trek is more Star Trek than most of the other treks after next gen and far more than all of the next gen movies.

Not to mention that almost all of the movies had explosions and chases, were they not trek either.

20. DisgruntledTrekkie - February 6, 2013

16. I agree.

21. DisgruntledTrekkie - February 6, 2013

19.
True, some of the other movies did have explosions, but Jar Jar Trek was just one long explosion and I’m sure his next one will be more of the same.

22. Jack - February 6, 2013

The thing is — to the ‘Star Trek belongs on TV’ people — maybe it does, but look at the ratio of good episodes to mediocre/bad episodes (looking at all 28 seasons… did Ent. last 4 seasons?). Nearly all the post TOS series each took 1 or 2 entire seasons for the shows to start working (and I’d argue that Voyager always ran smoothly, but it never really worked as Star Trek).

Telling good Trek stories is tricky.

23. Jack - February 6, 2013

16. All of the Trek movies Braga was involved in had plenty of pyrotechnics.

24. Jack - February 6, 2013

Watch Red Letter Media’s Trek reviews for a good breakdown on why/how the TNG movies were terrible and full of mostly pointless action.

25. DisgruntledTrekkie - February 6, 2013

24 No thanks.
I’d rather think for myself.

26. Bob Mack - February 6, 2013

22 – I agree with that assessment. And you can say the same thing for the movies, some are good, some are not. To your point, telling good Trek stories is tricky. Back to post #2, an earthbound “Enterprise” might have stunk, might have been good. Just being earthbound wouldn’t have been the deciding factor.

27. Digginjim - February 6, 2013

Saucer of milk for 25.

28. Carlos - February 6, 2013

Who cares for space in these days ? Kids don’t get impressed by Shuttles, Rockets, etc. Science fiction outside games and books is basically dead.

pWhen Star Wars cpmes out after 2017 it will take all the remaining spots reserved for this kind of genre for a long, long time…

Star Trek ? It will have a crappy random Animation series for the 50th Anniversary set on the Abramsverse. Maybe a Third movie that no one will give a F. After that ST will be dead as Lost in Space.

Maybe it will be revived when NASA rolls out a Mars mission. Seventeen years from now.

Then the few Trekkies remaining will look at you all in the past “ERMAHGERD JJ ABRAMS IS SO GEERD HURR” and cry sadly.

Face it. Outside our beloved fandom no single person talks about the Reboot. There’s no marketing. It is just another movie. No difference to what Braga did at all.

29. Captain Dunsel - February 6, 2013

Just my opinion, but I don’t think “Insurrection” failed because it was character driven instead of about a “big event”. I think it failed because the characters were un-involving.

30. NFXStudios - February 6, 2013

I enjoy the really loud people who hate Star Trek ’09 for not being the same, and hate Enterprise for not being different.

31. Bamasi - February 6, 2013

30 – Well said, sir. Well said.

32. Jack - February 6, 2013

30. Yep.

33. Jack - February 6, 2013

28. “Face it. Outside our beloved fandom no single person talks about the Reboot. There’s no marketing. It is just another movie. No difference to what Braga did at all.”

What?

34. Jeffery Wright - February 6, 2013

Enterprise was far under-rated. However, now with the new JJ movies, it’s firmly entrenched as fundamental Trek history.

With the timeline so drastically altered, it’s very unlikely TNG, DS9 & VOY will ever exist.

As far as DS9 & VOY are concerned, I say worth it.

35. Michael Hall - February 6, 2013

“Telling good Star Trek stories is hard.”

The truest words ever written on a Trekmovie forum.

“I enjoy the really loud people who hate Star Trek ’09 for not being the same, and hate Enterprise for not being different.”

Warp-driven strawmen.

36. CmdrR - February 6, 2013

I liked that aspect of Enterprise that showed us explorers who did NOT have all the tools they needed yet.
I think the show tried too hard to be another TOS. They should have ditched the transporter all together.
Also, prequels were burned out by then… and Ent shows why. Stop trying to connect the dots with another project… and just tell stories.

37. Mad Mann - February 6, 2013

Here’s hoping the next Trek series will be space station-based like DS9 and not another ship show.

Maybe it can be Deep Space Station K-7!

38. Horatio - February 6, 2013

Throwing in my two cents….

I *still* think that the premise for Enterprise was valid. There is a lot of backstory in the Trek universe that would make great television. I was totally disillusioned with how the show started off. If just felt like more of TNG or Voyager. Season 4 is how the series should have started but it was by then too late. I blamed Braga and Berman for f’ing up what should have been a great Trek renaissance. I do find Braga’s comment about UPN wanting to stick with “the formula” interesting. I can believe this as network executives are the dumbest collection of organic matter on the planet. Interesting though how Braga has waited nearly 8 years since the show was cancelled to mention this.

As for TNG movies like “Insurrection”, I think they were good Trek, just not good movies. Like it or not, we live in stupidfied society that likes big loud explosions and non stop hysterics. JJ’s Trek may be a necessary evil to some but it IS keeping Trek alive and in the public zeitgeist.

39. kev - February 6, 2013

summoner2100 – you have it wrong, that was rick berman, not him, he’s a good writer for certain types of stories and he was just stretched too far in his capabilities and dragged through the mud with him

just look up the news story on here they had a few years ago with Garrett Wang if you dont believe me, its pretty clear its bermans fault, actually here it is:

http://trekmovie.com/2011/06/22/garrett-wang-talks-clashes-with-brannon-braga-rick-berman-lost-opportunity-for-star-trek-voyager-movie/

and I remember reading doug drexler had to fight with them, namely Berman to make the NX 01 look older, they had planned to straight use the akira class from first contact as a ship that came before the old enterprise!

so yeah I’d say 70% berman, 30 Braga.

40. Frederick - February 6, 2013

If any show about the first Enterprise were going to be done, it should have been the real first one with Captain April. It would have been great, and more accepted, at least by me. I never bought into the premise of the show as done. Never.

41. Exverlobter - February 6, 2013

Ah, the “Enterprise sucks!” discussion again.
Ok, i admit, the first 3 seasons were awful. But remeber guys, the first 3 seasons of TNG were crappy as well.
However that show is considered one of the greatest Sci-Fi shows ever made. And just because of Season 4-7 which saved its reputation.
If they had not cancelled Enterprise prematurely, it would have had a chance to become the next TNG.
And i think it would have worked, because season 4 under Manny Cotos rule was great, and a step in the right direction.

42. Jim - February 6, 2013

The idea of the Earth struggling to just launch the NX-01 sounds AWESOME, which they had gone with that over the TCW.

43. James - February 6, 2013

I rate Ron Moore and Ira Steven Behr as the best writers of modern Trek.

In the buildup to the release of Star Trek: Into Darkness, I am reviewing all the previous Trek movies. I have just uploaded my review for ST:III

http://ryesofthegeek.wordpress.com/

44. Chris Roberts - February 6, 2013

The What-If scenario for Season 1 is facinating I’m sure, but the promise shown in Season 4 – laying the seeds of a proper roadmap, tying it into the later series (the original in particular) is what could’ve redeemed Star Trek: Enterprise – that’s the greater shame.

45. Chris Roberts - February 6, 2013

So when can I expect to Seasons 5-7 of Enterprise? With the Romulan War and a political drama dealing with the Birth of the Federation? What’s the hell is keeping ya? ;)

46. Exverlobter - February 6, 2013

@Chris Roberts

Yeah. THere is plenty of discussion about Trek coming back to TV since Abrams revitalised the Franchise.
However i don’t think that Chris Pine and Co would work on TV because that whole crew is all about the spectacle and would probably lose its appeal on the small screen.

My suggestion. Bring back Enterprise. Called
Star Trek Enterprise Phase 2.
Its basically Season 5-7 and tells the story of the Romulan War and the birth of the Federation.
Under Manny Cotos rule. That would be great.

47. Smike - February 6, 2013

ENT was neither bad nor awesome…it was lukewarm, mediocre…with a less than weak start but a badass ending…

Seasons 1 and 2 were basically bland rehashes of TNG and VOY episodes, but unlike VOY, I at least liked the characters and cared for them…Seasons 3 and 4 were the best Trek to date (minus the Nazi two-parter), but at the end of the day, the overall impression of the show was mediocrity… F, F, B, A makes C or D in the end…

As far as that “Trek belongs on TV” notion is concerned: I have to disagree… yes, I want a new show, but even when we had two cometing Treks on TV, I cared A LOT more about the movies… GEN, FC, INS and NEM, despite having their flaws, mean a lot more to me than any episode or seasons of DS9 or VOY (maybe minus Trials and Tribbliations and Far Beyond the Stars)…the TOS movies are sacred to me and ST09 is one of the finest hours of Trek… Nope. I love Trek on the big screen. Trek belongs in both media, as does Wars…

We need Star Trek movies and shows and Star Wars movies and TV series…and I totally disagree with #28: Space is more fashionable than ever… AVATAR became the higest grossing movies of all times, THE AVENGERS were based on an alien invasion plot and even TRANSFORMERS is a somewhat space-based franchise. Of course kids don’t play with 60s rockets and space shuttles anymore, but their imagination is still headed towards the unknown…

48. Smike - February 6, 2013

One of the inherent problems of Trek on TV was the superfluous “full season” format with 22 or 26 episodes… Series like New Doctor Who or Game of Thrones have proven that the 13 episode format is much more applicable for high budget genre shows… less fillers and stinkers, more focus on quality… that way you keep people turning in weekly…and you’ve got a quality product throughout that is worth rewatching for decades…

That can’t be said for ANY whole season of Trek. We’ve got 28 seasons with about 5-10 episodes really worthwile each season…That’s about 200 out of 700+ episodes that stand the test of time… A new show has to do better than that in order to survive…

49. USSEXETER - February 6, 2013

To me and I remember thinking it at the time, when Enterprise debuted Star Trek was over saturated. It was too much of a good thing with series overlapping each other as well as series overlapping the movies. To much of a good thing was not good for the franchise. Still would love to see Trek return to tv focusing on the Enterprise B and or C.

50. NuFan - February 6, 2013

I am offended by the title of this magazine. I say we spend the rest of our lives complaining about it on the internet.

51. Exverlobter - February 6, 2013

“One of the inherent problems of Trek on TV was the superfluous “full season” format with 22 or 26 episodes… Series like New Doctor Who or Game of Thrones have proven that the 13 episode format is much more applicable for high budget genre shows… less fillers and stinkers, more focus on quality… that way you keep people turning in weekly…and you’ve got a quality product throughout that is worth rewatching for decades…”

I disagree. On Trek in many cases the Quality of a season was either consistantly bad (TNG Season 1-3 with very rare exceptions) or consistantly good (after Season 3).
The best year was Season 6 where almost every episode was a masterpiec. I would have been pissed if Season 6 of TNG would have only consisted of 13 episodes. They proved that you can make 26 episodes, and still produce mostly outstanding TV without fillers and stinkers.

52. Captain John Stiles - February 6, 2013

ENT had potential but crashed and burned badly.

All they needed to do was to do a prequel to TOS’s Balance of Terror and go from there.

Earth-Romulan War, submarine-like spacecraft lobbing nukes at one another. Captain John Stiles, no transporters, no visuals, etc

53. Exverlobter - February 6, 2013

@48 smike

“One of the inherent problems of Trek on TV was the superfluous “full season” format with 22 or 26 episodes… Series like New Doctor Who or Game of Thrones have proven that the 13 episode format is much more applicable for high budget genre shows… less fillers and stinkers, more focus on quality… that way you keep people turning in weekly…and you’ve got a quality product throughout that is worth rewatching for decades…”

I disagree. On Trek in many cases the Quality of a season was either consistantly bad (TNG Season 1-3 with very rare exceptions) or consistantly good (after Season 3).
The best year was Season 6 where almost every episode was a masterpiec. I would have been pissed if Season 6 of TNG would have only consisted of 13 episodes. They proved that you can make 26 episodes, and still produce mostly outstanding TV without fillers and stinkers.

54. Damian - February 6, 2013

All of the spin-offs took about 2 to 3 seasons to catch fire. Even Deep Space Nine took until about the 3rd season to really catch on.

Yes, the Berman team was spent by that point. They needed someone like Manny Coto to be there from day 1. What made Deep Space Nine and The Next Generation so good was the plethora of writers which added variety. The first 2 seasons of Enterprise were almost exclusively written by Braga and Berman. That was a mistake. Season 3 and 4 saw a much greater pool of writers, and behold, the storytelling improved dramatically. Some have said they had nowhere to go but up, and that may be true to a point, but the 4th season, in particular, was where Enterprise needed to be. It wasn’t just improved, it was back to some great writing again.

But it was too late. UPN never seemed fully invested in Enterprise. I think people here forget how many times was Enterprise pre-empted for local events, and for other things going on. By the 4th season, UPN was changing it’s image to something that was incompatible with Enterprise. And yes, the 1st 2 seasons didn’t help, esp. since Voyager was never held in much high esteem. Unlike DS9, Enterprise was never going to get a 2 season honeymoon to work out the kinks.

Personally, I enjoyed it, and really got into it by season 3. I have no problem including it in the Star Trek universe. There is far worse out there.

At the end of the day, I was entertained. It’s TV, that’s what really counts.

55. LogicalLeopard - February 6, 2013

Wow….that would have been a really boring show, probably cancelled in the FIRST season. All of the Earth episodes they actually DID seemed pretty boring.

How does that exactly work, anyway? You don’t have a crew, it’d be a show about construction workers. What would be the danger or plot? Okay, the Klingons attack in Episode one. What would Episode 2 be about, a girder slips and puts the foreman in the hospital? Episode Three? A coolant leak happens, and the EPA threatens to shut the project down? Episode four? The Klingons attack again? Episode five? A worker’s strike?

It is REALLY scary that someone actually CONSIDERED that idea.

56. LogicalLeopard - February 6, 2013

54. Damian – February 6, 2013
All of the spin-offs took about 2 to 3 seasons to catch fire. Even Deep Space Nine took until about the 3rd season to really catch on.

**************************

I agree with that. But in Enteprise, I sort of think it was pretty good for the first couple seasons, then tanked during the Xindi storyline. By the time the 4th and best season rolled around, it was too late.

57. gingerly - February 6, 2013

It would’ve been nice to see some diversity on that panel. Geeks and Trekkies do come in various ethnicities and genders.

58. Eric Holloway - February 6, 2013

I liked all four seasons of Enterprise and re-watch them often and I can’t wait for the Blu-Rays to come out. I did not like the last episode and therefore have only watched it once. Like someone said earlier, it could have been better if they hadn’t used the transporter as much or at all. That could have come along during season four as a new invention. Whats done is done. These were good characters that and I liked that we had a chance to learn about their backgrounds and what their lives were like before joining Star Fleet. That was interesting to me. The ship was underpowered compared to some species and when they had malfunctions you saw repairs going on which made it all the more real. There wasn’t any pointing a scanner looking device at a panel and suddenly the broken system is repaired. It was good tv for me and I’m sorry it’s gone.

59. Phil - February 6, 2013

Enterprise was not a bad concept, but after a few episodes into season one you could tell they were shoehorning it into established Trek formula. The TNG ethos was just horribly out of place prior to what was established in TOS, which is a shame, because it could have laid the groundwork for some interesting sci-fi. Instead, we ended up with horny doped up Vulcans in catsuits, space zombies, a Godzilla looking Gorn, and Captain Angst.

60. Phil - February 6, 2013

Oh, forgot about the Return of the Space Nazis….and the temporal cold war bulls**t.

61. kmart - February 6, 2013

As much as VOYAGER was a total missed opportunity to show how tough it would be way way out there, and make it about all the compromises and very difficult decisions you couldn’t pass the buck to Starfleet on, Lil ENTERPRISE was even more of a missed opportunity.

Not because you needed to set up what was to follow, but to show a whole side of the future they’ve been sidestepping – how we get from HERE to THERE. ENTERPRISE completely sidestepped that hump, which could have conceivably involved parallel storytelling involving the politics back on Earth WHILE the ship was on its mission, so you could see how what they did out there impacted what was happening dirtside, and vice versa. Not what Braga was talking about at all, but also not the ‘apply what has worked, just back it up a couple centuries’ burst of non-creativity that sums up most ModernTrek either.

Except for most of DS9 and a couple hours of TNG, I pretty much consider that whole ModernTrek era a waste (though by no means as offensive as this hideous detour into AbramsLand.)

62. ados - February 6, 2013

They just named a new winter storm……Nemo……..lol

63. Smike - February 6, 2013

@Exverlobter:
“I disagree. On Trek in many cases the Quality of a season was either consistantly bad (TNG Season 1-3 with very rare exceptions) or consistantly good (after Season 3).
The best year was Season 6 where almost every episode was a masterpiec. I would have been pissed if Season 6 of TNG would have only consisted of 13 episodes. They proved that you can make 26 episodes, and still produce mostly outstanding TV without fillers and stinkers.”

Well, to each his own, but first of all, I really love TNG Season 1-3 (the original Roddenberry utopian vision, the scores by Ron Jones, heck, even those cardboard hellworlds)…I like Season 4-6 equally, but for different reasons, although most episodes in those seasons were based on that “riddles of the week” approach, which, once solved, takes away a lot from its rewatchability as opposed to the eps from Season 1-3…
Season 7 on the other hand is one of the weakest season of all Trek… an extended family reunion with weak plots and almost no exploration anymore…

But even though I love Seasons 1-3 for what they are, I have admit they had some pretty bad stinkers…as it was the case with Season 4-7! Even ENT Season 1+2 had their worthwhile moments (at least visually)… There has hardly been any perfect season yet but also almost no season without its merits.

But then, that’s just my humble opinion and if you don’t like TNG 1-3, you’re certainly not alone out there. It’s one of my favourite eras of Star Trek (along with all of TOS and ENT 3+4)…

64. Jack - February 6, 2013

48 Smike.

Exactly

65. Smike - February 6, 2013

I also have to disagree about the quality of TNG Season 6…yeah, it had its highlights (Relics, Quality of Life, Rascals, Tapestry, Ship in a Bottle, Face of the Enemy, The Chase, Timescape)…but c’mon…there were so many boring, mediocre episodes: Realm of Fear, Aquiel, Lessons, Suspicions… even the two-parters (Chain of Command, Birthright) would have made better one-part eps…

66. Yanks - February 6, 2013

I’m one of those folks that loved Enterprise (all 4 seasons). As time passes, I believe it will come to get it’s due.

Braga had different visions for what he wanted to do with the series. It appears he had a couple issues with the network. The network also pushed the expanded arc that became season 3. I think the first season being earth-centric would have made for good trek.

Just wish Manny Coto could have continued with season 5-7. I’m sure we would have had the Romulan War, Neutral Zone and the formation of the Federation.

67. BatlethInTheGroin - February 6, 2013

I hope those of you calling Abrams “Jar Jar” don’t actually think it makes you clever, witty or any anyway effective at forming insults.

It doesn’t.

68. Yanks - February 6, 2013

@ 54. Damian – February 6, 2013

Agree completely. Well said.

69. WillH85 - February 6, 2013

I still think Enterprise was under rated. Sure, it had its problems, but I wouldn’t say it was any worse than Voyager had I thought it had a good premis. Going back to the 22nd century made everything feel fresh again, in a way more than it had ever been. I don’t think the idea they came up with would have worked out too well, though. It may have even worked for half a season, but not an entire one. Ultimately I blame who ever decided to pull the plug on the show since the 4th season was awesome and was everything the show should have been from day 1.

70. LogicalLeopard - February 6, 2013

66. Yanks – February 6, 2013

Just wish Manny Coto could have continued with season 5-7. I’m sure we would have had the Romulan War, Neutral Zone and the formation of the Federation.

**********************************

I do too. The Romulan War would have been certainly more entertaining than the Xindi war, in my opinion. However, something just occured to me. If they suddenly said they wanted to resume Enterprise today (not saying that’d happen, but hypthetically), they really would be able to round up ALL of the actors, woudln’t they?

Is Trek really a career killer? How many actors are there that are almost never seen again after appearing on a Trek series? Who has had a place in anything big, besides Patrick Stewart? Man, after they shut the warp core off, it seems like most Trek actors retire to the convention circuit, in between cable movies.

71. Trekkiegal63 - February 6, 2013

#57 gingerly:

It would’ve been nice to see some diversity on that panel. Geeks and Trekkies do come in various ethnicities and genders.

Agreed. Wholeheartedly.

72. Jack - February 6, 2013

And, a few too many times, the solution to those TNG riddles of the week was just asking the computer the right question, or ordering the computer to perform the right type of scan or diagnostic (which is also why I never got hooked on House). The episodes got better when they started dropping the B-stories, but…

Enterprise really felt like all the same people were involved behind the scenes — it looked and sounded the same as everything that came before it. You could tell they were really trying to do something different, sure, but…

I’d rather see a series set aboard the Kelvin — even knowing it will eventually be destroyed — any day.

73. BatlethInTheGroin - February 6, 2013

#70: Although it’s commonly said that appearing on Star Trek kills careers, that hasn’t been historically true. Several stars have made names for themselves outside of Star Trek:

Nimoy (In Search Of, Fringe, directing, authoring books), Shatner (Hooker, Rescue 911, Boston Legal, authoring books [thanks to ghost writers]), Koenig (Babylon 5), Takei (as an activist and Internet/TV personality), Stewart (X-men and other film and theater roles), Burton (Reading Rainbow), Trinneer (Stargate, 24), Auberjonois (Boston Legal and in the theater), McNeil (as a successful director), Wheaton (writing books, Eureka, Big Bang Theory), Picardo (Stargate), Russ (Samantha Who?, iCarly), Spiner (tons of TV and film roles post-TNG), de Boer (The Dead Zone), Meaney (tons of film roles), Shimerman (Buffy the Vampire Slayer), Siddig (24), Mulgrew (on stage in Tea at Five and other plays), Ryan (Boston Public, Body of Proof, Leverage), Farrell (Becker), Bakula (Quantum Leap, Chuck, Men of a Certain Age), and so forth.

74. PEB - February 6, 2013

OK…so If you have NOT read issue #17 of Star Trek Ongoing you really need to pick it up! It’s a really great story about Dr McCoy and his life before Starfleet and what helped to push him in the direction of Starfleet. It’s an incredibly human story and really shows McCoy in a new light (I think). I really hope there’s a review of the comic here because I just picked it up this morning from my local shop and I thought it was incredible from begining to the last word at the end.

75. Trekkiegal63 - February 6, 2013

#73 BulletInTheGroin:

You forgot Roxann Dawson. I was a fan of the tv show “The Closer” and Dawson directed several episodes of that show, at least a couple a season, and guest starred in one (actually, many, many Trek alum. had guest appearences in that show, including, but not limited to John De Lancie and Marina Sirtis).

76. Lt Bremmon - February 6, 2013

The problem with Enterprise was that it missed all the potential that they could play it safe and make it another TNG. By the first episode they had transporters, phasers, full warp, Star Fleet Command, Klingons, unifed Earth free of any problems, no violation of the Prime Directive, etc. What Enterprise could have been was how a bunch of people following in Cochrane’s footsteps could overcome challenges despite everything going wrong. We could have had Star Trek where a ship out there was on it’s own far from home with no back up (no communications), where you couldn’t just stun the terrorists/hostages (no phasers) because all you had was nukes and machine guns, where you can’t just beam away from trouble, where viruses could wipe out entire planets, Earth recovering from World War 3 and the Eugenics Wars – why are they so against bioengineering, a military command squaring off with the science community, where the Romulans could attack Cheron and the Sol System (do you nuke them back?), Earth could be occupied, where a idealist human could end up arming the Klingon Empire and starting a devestating war leading to the Prime Directive where humanity ends up some how getting the logical Vulcans working with the passionate Andorians, etc, civil strifle with those against science “exploiting the universe”/imperialism and those against working with other planets. You also had races that weren’t just funny costumes of the day but real cultures with homeworlds to truely explore – Vulcan, Andora, Romulus, etc. There was also the chance to introduce a Vegan Tyranny type situation, an established race dominating the area that the Federation has to counter. The pilot should have been about Earth trying to rescue a Vulcan ship despite the fact our technology was horrid because we were the only ones close enough; something like that. The last season was only better because it touched on that (especially with the Vulcans and Andoria) but by then the damage was done.

77. Red Dead Ryan - February 6, 2013

#65.

“Chain Of Command” was a great two-parter. Having Captain Jellico command the Enterprise was an interesting, and arguably, good change of pace.

The scenes between Picard and Gul Madred were brilliantly played out, especially the torture and interrogation scenes.

A great lead up to the subject matter that “Deep Space Nine” would occasionally cover.

As for “Enterprise” its a good show. Slow early on, but I really enjoyed the Xindi War arc, with the humanoid and non-humanoid aliens. Season four is a total classic.

And finally, I have to say Damian does an excellent job of presenting his arguments on this site, whether you agree with him or not. I always enjoy reading his posts.

78. Phil - February 6, 2013

@76. In other words, TNG.

79. Smike - February 6, 2013

@70: But it’s not just Trek. Almost all 90s genre show actors have somewhat mysteriously disappeared…I’ve never seen any B5 or Buffy actors in other major roles. Let alone Xena, Hercules, Andromeda… Stargate “sold” some actors to other projects, but most of them are gone… and while i’m not an expert on non-genre TV shows, I also haven’t seen any LOST or BSG actors in major roles again… I guess being part of a genre TV shows is a one-way ticket, a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, and when those days are over, you have to live of made-for-TV miniseries, convention panels, Asylum productions and fan films…

80. LogicalLeopard - February 6, 2013

73. BatlethInTheGroin – February 6, 2013
#70: Although it’s commonly said that appearing on Star Trek kills careers, that hasn’t been historically true. Several stars have made names for themselves outside of Star Trek:

Well, of those people that you mentioned, I’d argue that only Shatner, Stewart have really done well afterward. Colm Meaney has found his niche, Siddig is getting some profile jobs, and Farell did well with Becker, but the problem was that after Becker, she went nowhere. Ryan had a pretty good streak going with Boston Public, not sure what she’s doing now though.

Rene Auberjoinis, Levar Burton, and Scott Bakula don’t count, because they, as Levar Burton memorably said, were famous before Star Trek.

All of the rest of those people fall into the category of what I was talking about, they didn’t really go on to stellar careers. Yes, they’re working, and yes, they’re probably very happy. I’m not trying to ‘judge” them so to speak, I’m just pointing out that outside of…well…..I think I’d say three people now, Stewart, Shatner, and Meaney, everyone else is sort of relegated to the sideline.

Nimoy (In Search Of, Fringe, directing, authoring books), Shatner (Hooker, Rescue 911, Boston Legal, authoring books [thanks to ghost writers]), Koenig (Babylon 5), Takei (as an activist and Internet/TV personality), Stewart (X-men and other film and theater roles), Burton (Reading Rainbow), Trinneer (Stargate, 24), Auberjonois (Boston Legal and in the theater), McNeil (as a successful director), Wheaton (writing books, Eureka, Big Bang Theory), Picardo (Stargate), Russ (Samantha Who?, iCarly), Spiner (tons of TV and film roles post-TNG), de Boer (The Dead Zone), Meaney (tons of film roles), Shimerman (Buffy the Vampire Slayer), Siddig (24), Mulgrew (on stage in Tea at Five and other plays), Ryan (Boston Public, Body of Proof, Leverage), Farrell (Becker), Bakula (Quantum Leap, Chuck, Men of a Certain Age), and so forth.

81. LogicalLeopard - February 6, 2013

79. Smike – February 6, 2013

You’re totally right. Its a bad situation, but it looks like if you get a spot on a syndicated genre show, you might have a meal ticket for a while, (maybe 7 years if Trek), and you might make the convention circuits, but your dreams of stardom are toast. It’s sad.

82. Craiger - February 6, 2013

Were B&B afraid to write the Romulan War because of what Spock said in Balance of Terror about no human ever seeing a Romulan? Makes me wonder if the Romulans shouldn’t have looked like the Vulcans? I don’t think all during the RW that a Human would have seen a Romulan? Unless it was an all space war and no ground war? Or if right after a Human saw a Romulan he or she was killed by a Romulan? I know Roddenberry wanted that because it added drama to the plot because of Stiles family member being killed in the War and Spock serving on the Enterprise with Stiles.

I think instead of the Klingons attacking Earth as Bragga says the Romulan’s attack Earth and they send the NX-01 to investigate who attack Earth. However didn’t they say the Romulans never attack first they provoke to try and get their enemy to attack first? Unless the Romulans attacking Earth would be to provoke Starfleet into attacking them?

83. MJ - February 6, 2013

@39 “just look up the news story on here they had a few years ago with Garrett Wang if you dont believe me”

Garrett Wang – the ultimate “pass the buck” guy in Trek production history. “It’s everyone else’s fault.” “Why wasn’t I promoted.” “How come I don’t get major media interviews.”

That loser couldn’t even get to work on time, and was reprimanded several times for it.

84. Phil - February 6, 2013

@73. Yeah, there are a few Denise Crosby’s out there, and James Doohan was Scotty for the rest of his career, regardless of where he landed. Really, no one would have ever heard of Nichelle, George, or Walter if not for Trek.

On the other hand, showing up on Trek didn’t hurt Dwayne Johnson, Jason Alexander, Kelsey Grammer, Joan Collins, Ashley Judd, or Christopher Plummer….

85. MJ - February 6, 2013

@79 “I’ve never seen any B5 or Buffy actors in other major roles.”

Huh???

Bruce Boxliter of B5 has been in the Tron Legacy movie, multiple episodes of Chuck, multiple episodes of Heroes, stars in the current Tron-animated tv series, and is filming the Tron Legacy sequel movie right now.

Alyson Hannigan of Buffy is a TV star who has been on How I met your mother for 8 years now and still going strong on that show.

86. Craiger - February 6, 2013

Boxliter was on NCIS awhile ago and also guest starred on Chuck.

87. MJ - February 6, 2013

@80 “All of the rest of those people fall into the category of what I was talking about, they didn’t really go on to stellar careers”

That is a ludicrous point. Pick ANY TV series, and then see who many of the cast went on to stellar huge careers and you get the same answer as if you just focus on Star Trek — very few.

88. MJ - February 6, 2013

@76. Lt Bremmon, that is an OUTSTANDING post outlining the missed opportunity of Enterprise. Thanks!

89. Exverlobter - February 6, 2013

@ 85. MJ

If Star Trek is a career killer is arguable, (i dont think so)
but c’mon the B5-cast is cursed.
Four stars died prematurely (O’Hare, Katsulas, Connaway, Biggs) and the other ones were almost never seen again.
Except for Boxleitner.
But even he could have done better. His part in Tron 2 was so small that it could almost count as a cameo, and he even had to work for The Asylum.

90. MJ - February 6, 2013

@41 “Ok, i admit, the first 3 seasons were awful. But remember guys, the first 3 seasons of TNG were crappy as well. However that show is considered one of the greatest Sci-Fi shows ever made. ”

Well you are free to think that, but you’ll find that the TNG typically does not make Top 10 lists like TOS does. In my book, TOS is the best sf show of all time, followed by DS9 in close 2nd place. TNG was a pretty good sf show, but falls below Babylon 5, Galactica Reboot, FIrefly, and the Twilight Zone.. And TNG looks dated even in Blu-Ray, while TOS still looks iconic.

91. MJ - February 6, 2013

@89. But Jerry Doyle has had a nationally syndiated radio show for years.

I will agree though, that compared to most TV shows, sure, the stars haven’t done much or have tragically died. When you die though like that dude, that is just a statistical anomaly. So you can’t really use people dying to prove your point???

92. Exverlobter - February 6, 2013

“. So you can’t really use people dying to prove your point???”

That does not prove the point, that all of this is a supposed career killer, but it is a valid aspect to solidify how much bad luck the cast had, which lead to the legend of the B5-curse. And in some parts that legend has its true points.

93. MJ - February 6, 2013

#87 “That is a ludicrous point. Pick ANY TV series, and then see who many of the cast went on to stellar huge careers and you get the same answer as if you just focus on Star Trek — very few.”

I agree. Here’s a good analogy. Pick any of the greatest college football teams in the past twenty years and see how many of their stars went onto become big stars in the NFL; very few did. So picking Star Trek is like picking the 95 Nebraska Cornhuskers team and wondering why only a couple players were successful in the NFL, with only one become a known starter, but not really a star.

94. MJ - February 6, 2013

@92. OK, I a with you there.

95. crazydaystrom - February 6, 2013

I like the idea of a full season of Trek set on Earth as a ‘slow burn’ buildup to the launch of the NX-01. Actually it would have made great sense for a show called ‘Enterprise’. Then second season renaming it ‘Star Trek: Enterprise’. The key as always would be good writing of course. But I’ve always wanted to see more of the Trek universe’s future Earth. One more reason why I’m so looking forward to STID.

96. MJ - February 6, 2013

@95. Coulda, woulda, shouda. Rodenberry and Fontana would have went the extra mile on something like that to make it happen. Berman and Bragga didn’t. It’s their fault for not making a stand and making it happen.

97. MJ - February 6, 2013

…and part of this is because they were so eager to prevent a “Captain Sulu” TV series, that they played the studio game and gave us a crap show instead.

98. Phil - February 6, 2013

@79. Really? David Boreanaz doesn’t ring a bell? Not everyone can be Brando or Alex Guiness….

Damn it, another SW reference….

99. MJ Kelly - February 6, 2013

While I really enjoyed how enterprise began, that would have been cool to have had an Earth Based season at the start of the series with the NX-O1 being built leading to its launch at the end of the season.

100. MJ Kelly - February 6, 2013

Really #97, Really?
how about providing some proof before spewing BS you can’t back up.
Or has somone been sipping the George Takei Kool Aid a bit I think?

101. Exverlobter - February 6, 2013

@96 MJ.
“and part of this is because they were so eager to prevent a “Captain Sulu” TV series, that they played the studio game and gave us a crap show instead.”

I am not sure about a whole Sulu-series, but a standalone direct to video or TV-movie would have been great.
I mean, they rebuild the excelsior bridge just for a single voyager-episode? Use that damn thing. Takei would have been thankful.

102. JP - February 6, 2013

This was a really great watch up until part 4 when the moderator ruined it. First came the heavy breathing into the microphone, and then he started fidgeting every few minutes in which the mic picked up and would drown out the people talking.

And why was the moderator the only one wearing a microphone anyways?

103. LogicalLeopard - February 6, 2013

#87 “That is a ludicrous point. Pick ANY TV series, and then see who many of the cast went on to stellar huge careers and you get the same answer as if you just focus on Star Trek — very few.”

***********************

I can agree with that. I’ve always thought that Star Trek sort of branded you, but perhaps thats incorrect.

Well, as I said before, at least you can make money doing conventions. And it can help you transition into another Sci Fi show.

104. Exverlobter - February 6, 2013

@95
@99

Although i agree with many here, that Enterprise should have been edgier, and not play it safe as they did, i have serious doubts that an earth-bound season would have worked.

Look at one recent example:
Caprica.
Huge fanbase with BSG. But nobody wanted to see Caprica. I am a huge BSG fan and when i asked my friends about it who also liked the franchise, most of them said: “Meh, if there aren’t Battlestars and Vipers in it, i won’t gonna see it.” And i myself found the show also boring as hell, although in contrast to my friends, i gave the series a chance.

So much to the whole attitude of Ronald D. Moore that “Battlestar-Fans care more about characters and good stories and not so much about spaceships and lasers”

105. MJ Kelly - February 6, 2013

How would you know number 90? you haven’t even watched the show on bluray. with all the posts you make complaining about its price and saying you won’t buy it, till its under 30 dollars.(fat chance of that happening soon lol)

77 you are right Season 4 was great, thats what makes the fact that we didn’t actually get a season 5 suck even more. Season 5 I have a feeling would have been excellent also had season 5 happened you know Trip never would have been killed off in the finale episode of 4 infact you know that episode wouldn’t have even been made. we also would have gotten some Peter Weller directed episodes :)

66 You are right, as the years go by and people have been more exposed to it via DVD and cable networks airing reruns, and Netflix and Amazon streaming and now with the Bluray just around the corner its fan base continues to grow. people who never had a chance to watch while it was in first run because UPN never reached even 90 percent coverage of the country or was constantly pre empted due to local events or sporting premptions on a number of the stations that did air it, and have seen it since have become fans.

infact there was a poll on one of the bigger star trek fan pages on facebook asking which series most deserved another season, the winner Enterprise.

106. MJ Kelly - February 6, 2013

101,
Look at the scenes of capt Sulu in Undiscovered Country and compare them to the recreations of those scenes in The Voyager episode.

His acting got worse, alot worse, while he could have very easily held his own as the lead of a Excelsior series around the time of Undiscovered Country, years latter when the Voyager episode came out he was no longer capable of that. again just compare how he delivers the same lines in the same situations in the two. you will see.

107. Exverlobter - February 6, 2013

@106
I also thought that this Episode sucked, but IMO that was not Takei’s fault. That whole crossover of Voyager and TOS felt very contrived and not thought out.

108. MJ Kelsey - February 6, 2013

Enterprise deserved a 5th season. Coto was taking it in the right direction.

109. TerranGuy93 - February 6, 2013

@ 53

“the first 3 seasons of TNG were crappy as well”

What? Seasons 1 and 2, sure but Season 3?

Yesterday’s Enterprise, Best of Both Worlds Part 1, The Defector.

I could swear those are considered some of the best of TNG

110. MJ Kelsey - February 6, 2013

The 3rd season of TNG was actually my favorite.

111. Nerdista - February 6, 2013

I loved Enterprise, it’s what got me hooked on Trek so I have a sentimental spot for it. I actually just spent some time re-watching it and I still think it’s good. Some things in the Trek world should remain, the theme and tone and message, but there’s a lot that deserves flexibility.

112. THX-1138 - February 6, 2013

I think the idea of doing the Robert April years to be intriguing. That might be a cool series. But I, me, personally, myself, would like to see it with a TOS E, and SLIGHTLY updated nods to the way things looked in, well, TOS. As a matter of fact you could look to “In a Mirror Darkly” for your visual cues.

But I realize I am in the minority once again with my opinion.

113. me - February 6, 2013

ENT: Reimagined

2056: the USS Constitution, NCC-1, commanded by Capt John Stiles leaves the Alpha Centauri system with the hopes of solving the mystery of the long lost Zefram Cochrane.

The ship is basically a naval submarine with warp nacelles and with a crew compliment of roughly 150 plus one Vulcan liaison officer. Ship is armed with nuclear torpedoes.

Earth basically fumbles and stumbles into an interstellar conflict with the Romulan Star Empire by not understanding the situation that surrounds them.

Pre-Warp feudal Klingons are given warp technology by Romulans to fight and provide a buffer to Earth-Vulcan Alliance. Klingons are also genetically modified to pass off as human spies and assassins. Side effect creates a mutant viral gene that quickly spreads throughout the Empire. Good news is that within three generations, the mutation will revert.

There are no transporters; there is no universal translator. The Vulcan is the only one that can help or hinder their navigation through a galaxy of treachery, espionage, piracy, war, and on the verge of all out galactic war.

114. Jack - February 6, 2013

112. Years ago, before Voyager and in the early years of TNG, I thought an April series would have been cool. The E could have been a bit grittier, really and I thought the Captain could be Roberta April, a woman, since we’d never seen April in canon. This was probably all a very bad idea.

115. kmart - February 6, 2013

110,

Yeah, I’m no fan of TNG, but season 3 had enough specialness going on (presumably because they didn’t have time to rewrite/dumbdown the scripts into a crapfest) that I’ve actually watched at least half of that season 7 or 8 times (THE DEFECTOR and YESTERDAY’S E a LOT more than that), which puts it so far ahead of the rest of the run it isn’t funny.

I’d be tempted to track the hard-charging Chattaway TIN MAN music over just about every other non Ron Jones episode just to improve them all immensely – can you imagine how much better STARSHIP MINE would have been if it had a score that was something more than the usual grey noise?

112,
As far as setting the series in another era, I think they’d have to try an experiment first … do something like GODFATHER 2, where the main story in the present is intercut with events in the past. You couldn’t sustain that for more than the length of a limited series, but that’d be enough to test the waters to see if people would have been interested in that earlier era.

116. MJ - February 6, 2013

@100 “Really #97, Really? how about providing some proof before spewing BS you can’t back up. Or has someone been sipping the George Takei Kool Aid a bit I think?”

Sure Tucker…err…”MJ Kelly”…lol. Anyway:

“While there was some fan talk of a Sulu series in the 90’s, the IFT campaign for “Star Trek: Excelsior” really kicked in as Voyager was coming to a close at the end of the decade. In January 2000 IFT officially started their campaign (see announcement at AintItCool). This time was right when Star Trek had started to go into a decline in terms of ratings, ticket sales, and merchandising. The campaign argued that Paramount should look to Sulu as the savior, here is an excerpt: ‘The fans involved in the EXCELSIOR Campaign, some one thousand strong and growing rapidly, feel that the best way to resurrect the Trek franchise is to take it back to its roots. “There are 80 missing years in the stories of Star Trek. We’ve gone from the original crew into the next century to see its recent incarnations. There are a lot of missions and a lot of adventures in those 80 years,” quips Haslage. The large and growing group of fans feels that a show focusing on original-era stories will be quite a money maker for the studio.’ In the end, Paramount made the call to skip the 23rd century and go all the way back to the 22nd century by creating the prequel series Star Trek: Enterprise. The show ran for four seasons on UPN before being cancelled.”

So you see, Tuker….err….MJ Kelly, I pay attention to Trek history and can fully back up what I am saying with facts.

I recommend you bring your A-game the next time you blow off about me not having my info correct.

117. THX-1138 - February 6, 2013

Well so far there are three of us that sort of think alike.

118. MJ - February 6, 2013

@105 “How would you know number 90? you haven’t even watched the show on bluray. with all the posts you make complaining about its price and saying you won’t buy it, till its under 30 dollars.(fat chance of that happening soon lol)”

There you go, again, Tucker…err MJ Kelly. I own “The Next Level” TNG Blu-Ray sampler, and if you had been paying attention (which of course, you weren’t), I mentioned about 11 months ago here how I was disappointed in them not going far enough with the special effects, and how bad the make-up looked in HD (made the characters look sweaty), etc.

Again, dude, this jumping to conclusions and assuming you’ve “got me” is not working here for you. You’ll have to come up something better than this.

Next???

PS: And I paid only $7 for TNG Blu-Ray Sampler.

PS2: Just picked up the entire TOS Blu-Ray — all three seasons — new for $82. $27 per season. So go ahead, be proud of yourself that you are paying $70 per season on average for TNG Blu-Ray…a fool and his money are soon parted.

119. kmart - February 6, 2013

116,
Lots of ideas have campaigns behind them — but the Excelsior crowd — and the number associated with that movement barely qualifies as a crowd, certainly not any decent percentage of actual viewership — drew no serious consideration from Paramount whatsoever. If you could look back at old posts on trek forums from that time, you would see it got very little recognition even from general fans, let alone the studio. In essence, it was vaporware.

I”m not saying this because I don’t like the idea, just trying to get things accurately represented here. The general notion of the Excelsior show mirrors in part with what I hoped would happen with the Enterprise-B post GENERATIONS, but just because I wrote a bunch of brilliant pages about such a premise for a limited series and shared it with a number of folks doesn’t mean Paramount considered it either.

120. Kenji - February 6, 2013

You know what this thread clarifies? That there is a difference between Trek as a show and the genre of Federation.

Trek, to me, is a show about Kirk, Spock, McCoy, and company on the USS Enterprise, exploring bold new worlds where people breathe oxygen, speak English, and are into sex with Kirk.

I’m all about that. Love the novels, the Abramverse, TAS, all of it. The dynamics of that particular group of characters is the hook for me.

They are set in a corner of a genre of only semi-related stories, set in the the Federation of Planets. TNG, ENT, DS9, the Starfleet Corps of Engineers, the Titan, VOY, etc.

This is a much broader storytelling universe and, clearly, has a lot of fan support. I myself don’t care enough to dig into the adventures of other crews or space stations, and I don’t think that makes me less of a fan of Star Trek.

It just means that I am not a fan of the entire genre.

Whaddayathink? Are you primarily a fan of the Federation genre, or of a particular subset?

121. MJ - February 6, 2013

@106 “Look at the scenes of capt Sulu in Undiscovered Country and compare them to the recreations of those scenes in The Voyager episode. His acting got worse, alot worse, while he could have very easily held his own as the lead of a Excelsior series around the time of Undiscovered Country, years latter when the Voyager episode came out he was no longer capable of that. again just compare how he delivers the same lines in the same situations in the two. you will see.”

I agree, Tucker…err MJ Kelly. I don’t recall in my post ever saying Takai was a great actor or though he could truly carry a Captain Sulu series. He’s not even a good actor, and I have doubts that he could have carried a Trek series. Yep, I agree.

My point, which you got sidetracked from, was that the Captain Sulu TV series concept was putting pressure on the studio on what next to move forward with, and Enterprise won that contest. But I think that pressure was not helpful in Enterprise going a radically new direction — my opinion is that Berman and Bragga went the safe route and did a standard Trek ship series because they were very worried about the studio pulling the plug and doing a Takei-Captain Sulu series instead…and so they didn’t have the balls to stand up to the studio on how they needed to do Enterprise in a new and creative way — they wanted to preserve their control over Trek and their pocketbooks.

This is my opinion, but I believe it is consistent with the history of situation as we know it.

122. MJ - February 6, 2013

@119. I would have to respectfully disagree with that. I was around in fan forums at the time, and I recall a lot of support and excitement for it.

123. Bob Tompkins - February 6, 2013

A Star Trek not set in space- which explains sticking with the name Enterprise sans Star Trek. It would have been interesting to do the first season entirely on Earth. The politics of the time would have easily fleshed out 26 great hours of TV, probably a much better product than we ended up with. Giving them that extra year to rethink concepts such as the Suliban and the time war might have given us a better direction. it would have been as if they had gotten the year off between Voyager and Enterprise as requested originally while still keeping the franchise front and center.
Brannon Braga has his faults, but being a hack is not chief among them. He has moved on to other projects, notably 24 and been successful.
Giving in to give the Paramount suits what they wanted was apparently his big mistake.

124. PEB - February 6, 2013

Season 1 on Earth could definitely have worked but the tone of the show needed to be different overall. The problem I always had with Enterprise was that from the music to the lighting to the stories to the design it was all just so formulaic. It needed to have continuity but it didnt need to feel stale and that’s what happened. I love the idea of a Trek show starting on earth and building towards going “out there” but it wouldnt have made me care any more for Archer, or Hoshi, or many of the other characters. Alot of other elements need to change when Trek returns to tv and what scares me is that I think a lot of fans expect and want television Trek to return to the same old formula.

125. Red Dead Ryan - February 6, 2013

Yeah, a Captain Sulu series just wouldn’t have worked. George Takei has no talent even as a supporting actor, never mind as the lead star.

Plus, he would have been massively hamming it up and overacting just to outdo/show up/upstage William Shatner.

I actually think they made the right call to NOT go ahead with that series.

126. PEB - February 6, 2013

Oh and by the way, fans DO talk about the movies. They might not talk about TNG movies as much but the movies are a huge huge huge drawing point. The Trek of my childhood consisted more of TOS era movies than the first few seasons of TNG series or TOS. Just sayin…

127. DisgruntledTrekkie - February 6, 2013

67.
Just another reason to keep calling Jar Jar, Jar Jar.
It annoys people like you who defend that scumbag.

128. PEB - February 6, 2013

@125 Sulu in Undiscovered Country embodied what a good captain should be (in my oppinion). I think Takei could’ve found his …um space legs… given the chance at a show. That said, I just didn’t really want a Sulu show. I really liked how the TOS films in style and atmosphere were contained in the films and never leaked over to tv. Unless you count that voyager episode (which I wont).

129. Magic_Al - February 6, 2013

When Enterprise and Voyager were good it was usually because a good Star Trek episode was written that happened to be brought to life by the Star Trek series that was on the air at the time.

Deep Space Nine was the last Star Trek series to very successfully reinvent the Star Trek format in a way whose benefits outweighed costs and that didn’t fail to regularly exploit the new possibilities opened up by its new format.

Voyager and Enterprise had to struggle to be Star Trek in spite of their premises. Both shows were launched in the wrong direction, because Star Trek is not about a journey from a strange place to a familiar place. Star Trek is not about being lost. Star Trek is not about going home. Star Trek is not about going backward. Making Star Trek prequels perpetuates a problem of Star Trek having become about memories of Star Trek.

130. Anthony Pascale - February 6, 2013

Disgrunted
Final warning for trolling and flaming

find a way to discuss things without getting personal

131. Plum - February 6, 2013

Brannon Braga; “Star Wars is all movies. Star Trek is TV. ”

Well said. :)

132. Gilberto - February 6, 2013

131
.
Well said to say it was well said by Braga, Plum! The Star Trek movies are big events in a person’s life, like a wedding or Christmas (some good, some bad), but the series are Star Trek’s “real” everyday life. IMHO.
.
Hugs and kisses, everyone!

133. JP - February 6, 2013

#127: How is JJ a scumbag? For what reason is he a scumbag in your eyes? You’re either really young, or really immature, or both.

A scumbag is somebody who rapes and murders people. A scumbag is not someone who makes a movie you just happen to not like.

134. Phil - February 6, 2013

@127. Scumbag? He breathed some life into Trek. Generally, he seems to be a decent human being. I have no issue wishing him well in his future ventures. It’s a bit immature to suggest that just because he isn’t doing what you want, that make him fair game to attack.

135. kmart - February 6, 2013

Hey, what happened to my post 134? I answered 133, put it in a decent context, and even offered up a more accurate word choice. Is it because my viewpoint was actually well-reasoned — as well as negative towards Abrams — that it isn’t up anymore?

wonder if MY warning is also being ‘cloaked’ …

136. K-7 - February 6, 2013

@135. That’s just so, so awful that your anti-JJ post was canned by Anthony. Cry me a river; that is just so sad.

LOL

137. BatlethInTheGroin - February 6, 2013

#127: You are in serious need of mental help.

138. Red Dead Ryan - February 6, 2013

#127.

Yeah, stay home when the movie comes out. The rest of us will enjoy the movie in the theatre without you crapping in your pants.

139. kmart - February 6, 2013

136,
IDIC and all like that, huh?
You’re pissing a river into what you’re supposed to be ga-ga over if that’s your take on things, dipso.

Sometimes this place seems worse in terms of mob mentality than trekbbs, and that’s saying LOADS.

140. MJ - February 6, 2013

@127. Yea, stay home, moron.

141. Red Dead Ryan - February 6, 2013

#139.

Well, you too might as well stay home, chicken shit. Or better yet, in the bargain bins at your namesake department store with all of the other cheap crap!

142. Star Trek: Nemesis blows, is the point - February 6, 2013

MJ – It’s fairly well known that Berman didn’t want to do a prequel series at all. He wanted a 29th Century series. With the Suliban and the 29th Century Temporal Cold War as a side plot in the first two seasons, then the background of the Xindi plot of the third season, it’s obvious that Berman wasn’t all that cooperative no matter what CBS/Paramount or anyone involved with that series wanted to do.

143. MJ Kelly - February 6, 2013

125, you hit the nail on the head about Takei and the overacting.
That was the main reason why I was so disapointed in that episode cause he was hamming up and chewing the scenery with lines that he delivered much better a few years earlier when he played it a bit more straight forward.

144. MJ Kelly - February 6, 2013

118, I didnt pay 72 dollars season 2 or 1 I got season 2 for 55.99 (out of pocket 31.99 thanks to upgrade and save and few reward zone certificates at best buy) and season 1 i got for 49.99 (using a upgrade and save at best buy)

but yeah of course you will look for the highest price.

and as for the Deep Discount 82 dollar offer, it took several years for it to drop down to that price and it was very limted availabilty. I prefer instant gratification over waiting several years. and to me the prices I paidwere well worth it.

145. MJ Kelly - February 7, 2013

116 MJ Kelly was the radio show host for 18 years in the Tampa Bay area. I picked it as my screen name, because I was a huge fan of his. So not sure why you say Tucker…. er MJ Kely

146. MJ - February 7, 2013

@142. Yes, exactly my point!

147. MJ - February 7, 2013

@145. OK, I thought you were MJ Tucker under the new incarnation. Sorry.

148. MJ - February 7, 2013

@145. Are you also this new MJ Kelsey poster?

Just curious — why are all of these new “MJ’s” showing up? A paranoid person might conclude they were trying to create mischief here for me?

149. Star Trek: Nemesis blows, is the point - February 7, 2013

@146 That’s why I don’t get when so many people fault JJ for the way ST09 is.

Rick Berman harmed Star Trek because he wanted to do what he wanted. Perhaps Braga would have gotten his way with an “on Earth” first season of Enterprise had Berman not been focused on coming up with ways to incorporate the 29th Century into a show about the 22nd Century since neither Braga or CBS/Paramount were interesed in doing a 29th Century show.

That harmed the creativitiy of the actors, writers. It plateaued after the first season which featured mediocre writing. The second season was more of the same as the first but not as good – and the ratings took the nose dive that it never came back from. The third season tried to bring it back, but departed from everything that the opportunity of a Star Trek prequel series represented. We had a totally new, unfamiliar area of space, featuring a species of aliens that we’d never heard of before.

It only took Manny Coto to fix that all. It’s why I wish there were a Season 5 of Enterprise. Season 4 was great and Season 5 would have been even better. Hell, the Kzinti would have been it! I don’t know if I would have really wanted to see the Borg Queen origin story…but I’d take it for having the start of the Romulan War and Kzinti appearances. Another mirror universe story, perhaps? Manny Coto was so great for that show. Too bad it was was after the point of no return for the show.

If there is a new Star Trek TV series, someone seriously needs to call Manny Coto and get him on board again. He knew what to do, and he knew how to do it right.

150. ME!! - February 7, 2013

So the plot to the pilot episode would have been stretched out to fill 24 to 25 episodes?

How exciting.

151. kmart - February 7, 2013

141,
I might as well stay home? OF COURSE I’m going to stay home. Do you think anybody who is as distressed by just the lens flare aspect as me would have seen an AbramsTrek in a cinema? It was bad enough TRYING — and trying unsuccessfully — to watch most of it on my big TV, so the next time, when I actually got through all of it one time was by streaming it on my computer, sitting WAY THE HELL BACK from the big mac monitor.

BTW, you might reserve the use of chickenshit for somebody who ducks out on debates or just delivers one-line snipes rather than for the folks who stand behind their views. Then again, chickenshit might also apply to sheep who go with the popular flow rather than applying critical standards, especially those folks who are smart enough to HAVE standards, but deliberately choose to set them aside to stand (weak-kneed) with the majority.

But I understand if you don’t want to apply standards equally, since you’d wind up having to call yourself names in order to be fair & balanced.

152. Red Dead Ryan - February 7, 2013

#151.

So, let’s get this straight: You hate J.J Abrams merely for his use of LENS FLARES?? That’s the friggin’ reason for all of your bitching? LOL!

153. Damian - February 7, 2013

77–Thanks RDR. At the end of the day, I’ve never seen a Star Trek I didn’t like. I can even sit down and enjoy Spock’s Brain and Star Trek V. I have every episode of all the series and all 11 movies on DVD. I even liked Insurrection (though I always thought they missed an opportunity for a Dominion War movie involving the Enterprise).

I’m also one of the 10 people that loved Nemesis :), The Motion Picture was my favorite movie, and I loved Star Trek (2009).

With Enterprise, it’s just too simplistic to blame it’s demise on just one factor. There were many factors at fault, and yes, network apathy was one of them. UPN’s heart was just not into it. Ashame because the Romulan War is that one, great, untold story in the Star Trek universe (except for novels). The one even that led to Star Trek as we know it has never been portrayed on screen.

154. kmart - February 7, 2013

Learn to read … “anybody who is as distressed by JUST the lens flares”

That doesn’t get into moron plotting, character assassination and plenty of other drama issues. That is just the crime against cinematography aspect.

It’s nothing to laugh about. But if you like your ‘cinema’ as talking heads and jittery add camerawork, then laugh as much as you like, you’re clearly blinded by the flare.

So ‘let’s get this straight’ you’ll continue to take stuff out of context in order to post pathetic snipes instead of offering commentary or an informed opinion? Just wanted to be sure, so I’ll resume tuning you out (take note that I was responding to somebody else’s post, not yours, initially, and that is as I recall because we decided you weren’t worth debating a month or two back.)

155. Red Dead Ryan - February 7, 2013

#154.

HEY EINSTEIN!!

NEWS FLASH!!!

If you don’t like the Abrams movies, then stop your bitching already and just move on!

I didn’t take anything you posted out of context…..it was plainly obvious you have issues. Fine, we get that, but at some point, you’re going to have to move on.

“That is just the crime against cinematography aspect”

Yeah, somebody call the cops on J.J Abrams, he just murdered “Star Trek” with his “sick and twisted” methods of cinematography!

LOL!

156. LogicalLeopard - February 7, 2013

Mommy, daddy, stop fighting!!!

*LOL*

157. LogicalLeopard - February 7, 2013

Annnywhoo….

@149

It’s interesting to see what would have happen if all of that confusion wouldn’t have happened. A temporal cold war is an interesting concept, but it either has to be the whole show, or a few isolated episodes. My biggest problem with Enterprise was the Xindi war. It was an interesting concept for a species that promptly got boring. Wow…..cut a swath from Florida to South America? Cool! Then, all that time I was watching Xindi insects and porpoises, I was thinking, “Okay, this is boring. What happened to Florida?” What happened if, it only destroyed like half of Disneyland, and now It’s a Small World is sitting next to the ocean? What do the maps look like? Is the part it cut through now considered an island? *LOL* When Florida becomes more interesting than the action on screen, there’s a problem.

Plus, why even waste time on a whole SEASON of war with porposes and birds and other nonsense, why not skip ahead to the Romulan War if you need a war arc.

158. Yanks - February 7, 2013

@ 157. LogicalLeopard – February 7, 2013

The “swath” was the biggest problem with the Xindi “war”. The first attack of Earth by an alien race would have been recorded in trek history. They could have done it all without the attack. That and it’s tactically assinine.

159. Damian - February 7, 2013

158–The attack on Earth was not supposed to happen, which is why it was not in recorded history.

The attack showed Starfleet it had to do something ASAP. Vague warnings about an attack from a species (Suliban) that we didn’t trust wouldn’t have motivated Starfleet to quick action.

Also, it was also more dramatic that way, from a viewer’s perspective. Seeing an attack is much more effective than just hearing about a potential attack.

160. cd - February 7, 2013

Enterprise:
temporal cold war: crap
Suliban: crap
Xindi anything: crap
“bitter beer face” Vulcans that are mean to poor old whiny Archer: crap
Space Nazis: crap
Andorians: cool
Porthos: cool
putting an iguana pituitary gland in Porthos: crap

161. Matthew C. - February 7, 2013

Enterprise was so poor because the writers didn’t bother with the real questions posed by 35 years of previous Trek until 4th season. If they would have left the Xindi, Suliban, and Temporal Cold War out of the series entirely and focused on the Andorians, Vulcans, Tellarites, Saurians and Humans forging an alliance that would become the Federation, not only would have been far more interesting, but it would have also made sense in canon.

Braga, though a long time Trek writer, has always been a bane on Trek. I was glad to see him leave and hope he stays away from anything involving Trek. Now if we could just get rid of Kurtzman and Orci…

162. K-7 - February 7, 2013

kmart,

Just curious,

If you hate everything about nuTrek, then why do you bother to post here given the purpose of this site is largely to cover the nuTrek movies?

A skeptical person might conclude that the point of your posts is simply to get personal enjoyment out of pissing off Red Dead Ryan and other fans who like nuTrek?

163. cd - February 7, 2013

161. Exactly. Although I will say I do appreciate Orci’s interaction here on this site.

164. Star Trek Nemesis blows, is the point - February 8, 2013

161. Matthew C. – February 7, 2013
“Braga, though a long time Trek writer, has always been a bane on Trek. I was glad to see him leave and hope he stays away from anything involving Trek. Now if we could just get rid of Kurtzman and Orci…”

Let me finish this sentence for you:

…we wouldn’t be discussing Enterprise on this websie.

They made a much better project than Berman and Braga made. They did more for Star Trek, unlike Berman and Braga, who killed it.

165. kmart - February 8, 2013

162,

Just registering a dissenting viewpoint and backing it up might be all I can do. It isn’t like I can go into business making TREK the way I think it should be presented. Also, from what I recall, putting an informed opinion out there has the potential for changing minds (“in every revolution, there’s one … ” etc., etc.), perhaps influencing somebody who will make a difference down the line.

How can I NOT chime in when the mood strikes?

I apologize if these posts give the impression you suggest, because that kind of needling is something I abhor and find akin to trolling. That’s more in the vein of grand emeritus folk on trekbbs, who do this with impunity.

166. Obsidian - February 10, 2013

The first-starship-built series would be a great idea for a high-budget HBO series of 13 commercial-free episodes per season.

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