RUMOR: Joe Cornish being considerd as director for Trek 3 | TrekMovie.com
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RUMOR: Joe Cornish being considerd as director for Trek 3 November 3, 2013

by Matt Wright , Filed under: Rumor,ST: Into Darkness Sequel , trackback

According to Deadline.com, Joe Cornish (Attack the Block, The Adventures of Tin Tin) is strongly being considered for the director’s chair of the next Star Trek movie:

Cornish followed by being one of the writers on The Adventures Of Tin Tin, and he and Edgar Wright wrote the script for Ant-Man, the Marvel Studios film that Wright is going to direct. Long story short, he’s gotten exposure to bigger scale projects than Attack The Block, in which he admirably depicted a full scale alien invasion on a relatively small budget. Doing a movie like this would certainly put his career on a warp speed path. He’s already working with Paramount on the novel adaptation Snow Crash which he’s prepping to present to the studio.

Deadline.com

Comments

1. Stephan - November 3, 2013

Not sure, what to think about it. Was hoping for a bigger name or at least a more experienced director. Maybe someone who did something different before. Don’t know if it’s a good thing to hire someone who did one alien invasion flick and nothing else. I prefer directors who do movies from different genres not only scifi or comic movies. What do you think?

2. Ciarán - November 3, 2013

I saw his movie Attack The Block, and I must say I was not impressed. So this news worries me. He’s FAR too inexperienced to deal with something this size. He IS a fan, tho.

3. I am not Herbert - November 3, 2013

Joe Cornish would be great, but i seriously doubt he’d be stupid enough to take the job without a re-boot and new production… LOL!! =D

PLEASE REBOOT!!! PLEASE REBOOT!!! PLEASE REBOOT!!! I’M BEGGING!!!

4. Stephan - November 3, 2013

@3:

I hope you are joking.

5. Thorny - November 3, 2013

Stuart Baird Mk.II ?

6. Ashley - November 3, 2013

Wait.. a Snow Crash movie?!?! Holy crap! o_o *worried + excited*

7. I am not Herbert - November 3, 2013

ok, the elephant in the room: working with “crazy” BobOrci…

BobOrci is NOT crazy… but he IS tainted by all of this… (he’ll be ok) ;-)

Bob IS starting to see through some of the lies: 9/11 = false flag, JFK murdered by CIA / Bush Sr., secret gov’t, illuminati / cabal, etc, etc…

BUT, he is still a catholic, and therefore a slave to dogmatic views… he is still a tool of the machine… and unfit to create “Star Trek” =(

If Joe Cornish DOES take this job, he should ONLY do it without BobOrci.

8. Stephan - November 3, 2013

5. Thorny:

Wow, careful. I just got a cold shiver when I read that name.

9. Stephan - November 3, 2013

7. I am not Herbert

Did you just say, someone is unable to be fully creative because of his belief?? I think you should write for trek after you show how 3-dimensional your thinking is.

10. I am not Herbert - November 3, 2013

I was more specific:

BobOrci’s “belief” (catholicism) tells him that science fiction IS FANTASY.
That viewpoint is OBVIOUS in his writing.

clear it up any?

(lame attempt at insult ignored) ;-)

11. Elias Javalis - November 3, 2013

Sometimes an Outsider is the Best Choice!

12. Optimistic Doodle - November 3, 2013

“No formal offer has been made and Cornish could pass on the project a _second_ time.”

SOURCE
http://variety.com/2013/film/news/joe-cornish-star-trek-3-1200775433/

13. I am not Herbert - November 3, 2013

hmmm… now i’m wondering… ?

is Joe Cornish catholic too…?

Star Trek should not be driven by religious people… i’m looking at you, JJ… =(

14. Cmd.Bremmon - November 3, 2013

@10

Wow comment is pretty misinformed regarding Catholics.

There is absolutely nothing in Catholic doctrine which is against space travel, exploring strange new worlds, etc. In fact the Big Bang Theory was actually the result of a Catholic Priest / Physics Professor named Georges Lemaitre. He was the first person to propose the theory of the expansion of the Universe, widely misattributed to Edwin Hubble/ He was also the first to derive what is now known as Hubble’s law and made the first estimation of what is now called the Hubble constant, which he published in 1927, two years before Hubble’s article. It makes sense of course that a Catholic physicist would believe the universe had a “beginning” and that the red shift detected indicating an expanding universe made sense. Of course at the time he was condemned ironically as many believed in a steady state universe (i.e. no beginning, no end).

Issac Newton, the father of modern physics, was also a die-hard Christian.

There is absolutely nothing that says Christians and Catholics cannot want to go explore space. Your anti-IDIC rant definitely misinformed.

15. Stephan - November 3, 2013

10. I am not Herbert

No clearing up at all. In what way does cathalicism tell that scifi is fantasy? And why do you generalize in that way? Who are you to say which group should drive trek and which shouldn’t? That sounds a little fascistic.

16. I am not Herbert - November 3, 2013

…shakes head… =(

…seems Boborci is locked-in to churning out another crock of shyte…

…so, Joe Cornish would have to be INSANE to take it… =(

…only a greedy in-house boot-licker would take this deal… =(

17. Ahmed - November 3, 2013

I think it is a mistake to hire a guy who made just one low budget movie to direct a multimillion-dollar 50th anniversary Trek movie.

18. Ahmed - November 3, 2013

Guys, let focus our discussion on Star Trek & not religious issues.

19. I am not Herbert - November 3, 2013

PLEASE!!! i will not explain to you how religion is incompatible with science fiction! or TRUTH for that matter!

the difference is: thinking for yourself, or accepting what you are told.

20. Stephan - November 3, 2013

19. I am not Herbert:

I really do hope that you are joking, or provoking or even trolling. Because if you are serious than I would be shocked that someone with this attitude calls himself a trekkie or even intelligent and informed.
Your answers show that you have no idea about religion. There is no conflict between truth and religion at all! I say this as someone who has studied physics and engineering and is a catholic.
And by saying religion is accepting what you are told you are absolutely wrong. You can ask a lot of theologians or spiritual persons of many confessions.

21. Philip - November 3, 2013

I can understand people’s reticence when it comes to a new & inexperienced director taking reigns of the franchise. However, before moving onto the big screen, Joe Cornish had a lot of TV experience in the UK, as part of the double-act Adam & Joe. A lot of their stuff is on YouTube. And a lot of their stuff references Star Trek. It was nearly zero-budget, an archaic TV comedy, but it was often hilarious and it worked.

I think having a pared-back movie could be a good thing for the franchise. It worked for The Wrath of Khan, which was so much more about character & story than The Motion Picture, with it’s drawn-out, expensive scenes designed to drop the audiences jaws, but which ended up being boring for a lot of people. I think Joe Cornish would be a good choice if this is a direction the studio would wish to take. Out of the options, he’d be my choice in terms of getting the fans back on-side.

Everyone’s gotta cut their teeth & earn their chops some way, after all!

22. Stephan - November 3, 2013

19. I am not Herbert:

I have studied physics and engineering and am a catholic and I tell you there is no incompatibility.

23. Philip - November 3, 2013

I am not Herbert: please. Take the advice of this aetheist; this isn’t the place for spreading narrow-mindedness. As fans, we all want the best for this franchise. I might not be a huge fan of Orci’s work, but I have no idea what his religious beliefs have to do with anything. What you’re saying is tantamount to incitement to hatred and it is not a good quality in a person. Much less a Star Trek fan.

24. Zirclet - November 3, 2013

Sorry to take needless personal offense and nitpick on something other than Trek in here, but it’s Tintin, not Tin Tin. Respect — he’s got years and years of adventuring on Kirk & Spock.

25. Smike - November 3, 2013

Joe Cornish…Ahm…not impressed to say the least. Attack the Block is not at all what I consider a good movie.
It’s NOT at all “a full scale alien invasion on a relatively small budget”… It’s a C movie on a relatively big budget. It looks much cheaper than any decent Doctor Who episode (Nu Series that is!)
It’s an independent creature feauture without any real cult factor….it’s not even worthy of being mentioned in one sentences with Pegg’s Cornetto trilogy, although it attempts to be in that vein.

As for Orci and crew regarding SciFi as fantasy in space…well, that’s true, but isn’t that true for any successful sci fi production with mass appeal… Star Wars, Avatar, Doctor Who, the entire Avengers universe… fantasies with a space setting and some techno gadgets…

I guess “hard” realistic Sci Fi doesn’t sell, unless it’s too realistic to be called Sci Fi anymore… Gravity for example. Now THAT is realistic, but I wouldn’t call it even Sci Fi anymore…

Nope, I’m quite happy with that fantasy in space sort of approach the big ones have taken. If you’re looking for scientific TRUTH, I guess it’s time to look elsewhere. These franchises are entertainment vehicles, not science lessons.

26. I am not Herbert - November 3, 2013

almost all of the concepts brought up by Star Trek and Science Fiction are considered HERETICAL:

Earth is NOT the center of the Universe…

Earthers are NOT the only inhabitants of the Universe…

Earthers are NOT the pinnacle of Creation…

Earth IS older than 6,000 years…

…and on and on and on…

Copernicus and Galileo studied science and were persecuted by the church. The view of religion has modernized slightly, but not much… =(

If you think science and religion are on the same page, you are SADLY MISTAKEN… =(

27. Smike - November 3, 2013

Attack the Block made lass than 6 million worldwide on a 13 million budget and it’s the ONLY feature film on Cornish’s CV… how could they entrust him with a multi-million-dollar franchise? This has Stuart Baird written all over it. I hope it’s just a rumor…

28. Stephan - November 3, 2013

23. I am not Herbert

At least now we can circle your disinfomation. At first, you are mixing catholicism with creationism. Then you are mixing the institution of church with religion or belief.
I don’t know any catholic who believes that earth is the center of the universe, earthers are the only inhabitants of the universe or earth was created 6000 years ago. Even the pope doesn’t believe these things. Pope John Paul II even was a hobby astronomer and was interested in the work of Hawking.

29. I am not Herbert - November 3, 2013

well yes, that is what i take from it:

“look elsewhere for plausible science fiction…”

i guess i’m not DUMB ENOUGH for nu-trek! LOL! =D

i guess i’m not LAZY ENOUGH to give up on the real thing!

Star Trek used to be about more than PANDERING to DUMBNESS! =(

(“cash in now honey, cash in now baby…”)

30. Stephan - November 3, 2013

25. Smike

I have to agree. I feel the same way.

31. Smike - November 3, 2013

@23: Catholic dogma has accepted scientific progress a long time ago… The Bible being taken literally is rather an Evangelical, Creationist thing these days…so blame it on Calvinist Protestants of Puritan descendence.

Yes, the Catholic Church USED TO persecute people like Galileo, but that was centuries ago. I’m not even a believer, but it is simply untrue that modern science is still outlawed by the Catholic Church. It’s Creationists and other notorious hillbillys that still challange scientific facts…

32. I am not Herbert - November 3, 2013

..well, you are a typical catholic: unsure of your own “beliefs”… ;-)

…but i commend your open-mindedness! ;-)

33. crazydaystrom - November 3, 2013

Wow! This thread took an ugly turn pretty quickly. Ha!

I loved Attack the Block and think Cornish could be a fine choice. It remains to be seen of course. He definitely did a great job of directing the actors. And I loved the point of view of the film, which he wrote. Could be quite the inspired choice.

34. I am not Herbert - November 3, 2013

let’s not split hairs or play semantics…

real science fiction goes against religion…

nu-trek is not science fiction, it is brainless popcorn FLUFF, written and directed by religious men. coincidence? NO.

Real Star Trek should be real science fiction.

’nuff said?

35. Stephan - November 3, 2013

In what way am I unsure in my belief? I really don’t get what you mean?
The points you’ve mentioned have nothing to do with catholicism. So no conflict to trek, the trouth, the universe and everything…

36. Thorny - November 3, 2013

I went to a Catholic School in the shadow of Cape Canaveral for nine years (Kindergarten through 8th Grade). We were taught all about the solar system, with the Earth being the third planet, the Milky Way galaxy, the dinosaurs living millions of years ago, etc. We all filed outside to watch whenever a manned launch was about to happen (mostly late Apollo and Skylab in those days) and everyone, including the Sisters, cheered the launches on. We even made a field trip to the John Young Planetarium in Orlando one year.

Kinda strange for a Catholic Church which insists the Earth is the center of the universe, is only 6,000 years old and is opposed to space travel, wouldn’t you say?

37. crazydaystrom - November 3, 2013

24. Smike
Attack the Block made lass than 6 million worldwide on a 13 million budget…

Sure Smike but without quibbling about numbers, Joss Whedon’s first film, Serenity was not a box office success and his follow up film broke box office records. If Cornish is a Trek fan as has been said, I’d like to see what he will bring to the table.

38. K-7 - November 3, 2013

MJ broke this story here on Trekmovie over 24 hours ago.

39. Stephan - November 3, 2013

Just because you repeat yourself it doesn’t get true. Tell me one reason why real science fiction or the “truth” goes against religion?

“nu-trek is not science fiction, it is brainless popcorn FLUFF, written and directed by religious men. coincidence? NO.”

Your argumentation works like this: “Someone ran against a tree, he was an atheist. Coincidence?”

40. Smike - November 3, 2013

Star Trek may question religious beliefs but it doesn’t have to in order to be “real” Star Trek. Of course, religion can be a VERY dangerous thing if it’s overdone by fundamentalists but it’s not a bad thing per se… there will always be questions that science cannot answer and so religion or rather advanced esotherics may provide some sort of higher truth, even for Sci Fi fans…

I’m not at all a follower of any traditional belief system, but when it comes to spirituality and new-age esotherics, I’m all in… This is why I love The Force, or the idea of the universe mending itself after the Nero incident or any other sort of fluffy craziness seen on Doctor Who… I’m also a HUGE fantasy fan and while I do not share the beliefs of Tolkien, CS Lewis and Co., I truly admire their creations.

I think – with regards to IDIC – there is plenty of space for all sorts of spiritiuality in both SciFi and fantasy worlds… It’s interesting: the so-called openmindedness of scientific purists seems to come to an abrupt end as soon as spirituality is concerned…

While I do believe that none of the conventional world religions are even close to the ultimate truth, pure science can’t touch it either…

41. I am not Herbert - November 3, 2013

…you want dumbed-down judeo-christian republican trek?

…you must be happy! …’cause that’s what you’ve got… =(

me? i hate the (religiously driven) willful DUMBNESS! =(

42. I am not Herbert - November 3, 2013

Smike: AGREED! science is just as corrupt as religion!

43. Smike - November 3, 2013

@34: Very good point: With only 38 million, Serenity was far from being a huge hit and it didn’t prevent Joss Whedon from doing The Avengers…

But then, Whedon has PLENTLY of experience with superb TV shows prior to taking over The Avengers. Buffy, Angel, Firefly…and unlike “Attack the Block”, his first feature film “Serenity” was actually quite GOOD!

I dunno…

44. Smike - November 3, 2013

PLENTY…too many typos tonight…Need to go to bed now…

45. Stephan - November 3, 2013

37. Smike:

Well said. And I may be a religious man but I question my belief every day. And I am thankful when trek questions it as well, so it can help me to find answers.
For me it is important to be open minded all the time.

38. I am not Herbert
You just don’t get it don’t you? How can you generalize dumbed down, with Judaism or Christianity? Do you think this opinion fits to trek? What whould Roddenberry have said, who was an atheist but tolerant?

46. I am not Herbert - November 3, 2013

Stephan:

Science Fiction is COMPLETELY OPEN-MINDED!

Religion, to say the least, IS NOT.

further attempt at reasoning with you is pointless…

47. Stephan - November 3, 2013

40. I am not Herbert:

Now science isn’t about the truth as well? Ok, what is left? I think I cannot help you.

48. Captain, USS Northstar - November 3, 2013

I am not Herbert:

Your anti-Catholic rant is woefully misinformed. I am Catholic, have loved Star Trek since the beginning and enjoy other works of Science Fiction.

Every Catholic would be very comfortable with the mission of the Starship Enterprise — to explore strange new worlds (God’s Creation), to seek out new life and new civilizations (and to respect that life and welcome the newness of others) and to go boldly go where no one has gone before (to go out into the stars and to behold the face of God in all the wonders of the Universe).

Wasn’t it JFK (a Catholic) who challenged us to go to the Moon? From the nuns in my Catholic elementary school to the Jesuits in high school and college — they have all encouraged me to dream, to reach higher, to be better, to be for others.

Isn’t that what Star Trek is all about?

And speaking of Bob Orci and new-Trek: I just received STID for my 50th birthday (!) and have already watched it four times in five days. I saw it three times in the theatre — it has layers and layers to explore and enjoy at every viewing. Sure, it has issues (hiding the Enterprise under water when being in orbit would have served the same purpose), but the whole package is great fun with wonderful character moments.

In fact, I think I’ll go watch it again after dinner!

49. I am not Herbert - November 3, 2013

nu-trek is dumb.

but i accept (and tolerate) that you like it.

now here’s a hug and a cupcake… ;-)

50. I am not Herbert - November 3, 2013

science, like everything else, is corrupted by money and ego… =(

51. Stephan - November 3, 2013

44. I am not Herbert

But religion isn’t that closed minded as you want it to be, as well. I just want to encourage you to inform yourself, ask questions and don’t insist on things you obviously don’t have a clue about.

“further attempt at reasoning with you is pointless…”

If at least you would reason grounded.

52. Stephan - November 3, 2013

50. I am not Herbert

“science, like everything else, is corrupted by money and ego… =(”

So please enlighten me: What is the truth? No science, no religion. Just scifi left?

53. I am not Herbert - November 3, 2013

I LOVE catholics! some of them are very reasonable! (as witnessed here)

…but if you think science and religion are not at odds, you are deluded.

54. Stephan - November 3, 2013

49. I am not Herbert

I take your hug and even your cupcake. But where did I say, I like new trek? Ok, I do but it wasn’t part of my argumentation.

55. I am not Herbert - November 3, 2013

“The Truth” is left for you to discern for yourself, using logic.

do not accept being programmed. (i.e. fed with dogma)

56. Stephan - November 3, 2013

Science (from Latin scientia, meaning “knowledge”[1]) is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe. (wikipedia)

If that principle doesn’t stand anymore than I can take off my pants and run around the tree in the park because know anything is possible.

57. Stephan - November 3, 2013

“The Truth” is left for you to discern for yourself, using logic.

Oh, sounds like a principle called science. (q.e.d.)

58. I am not Herbert - November 3, 2013

scientific THEORY, NOT practice… ;-)

when money and ego are involved, discernment and truth take a back seat… ;-)

…as with the power of the pulpit… ;-)

59. I am not Herbert - November 3, 2013

MONEY CHANGES EVERYTHING… =(

pants off, start running… ;-)

60. Stephan - November 3, 2013

“scientific THEORY, NOT practice… ;-)”

Aha, the same with religion.

61. I am not Herbert - November 3, 2013

witness all of the PAID scientific climate-change deniers… LOL!!! =D

62. I am not Herbert - November 3, 2013

“Aha, the same with religion.”

no, that’s what HYPOCRISY is. =(

63. Keachick - November 3, 2013

I am not Herbert is trolling. His diatribe has nothing to do with this thread. His comments are intellectually insulting, presumptuous and ignorant.

I know all about dogmaticism. You see, I was brought up Seventh-Day Adventist and verily, I say – they have it all sussed out, for sure and what’s more I am going to hell… As for Catholics, there are more than a billion of them worldwide, which allows for enormous variation in race, culture, education, intellectual and physical capacities and their acceptance and/or understanding of Church doctrine, past and present.

Now, as to whether Joe Cornish could make a good Star Trek director – unsure. I think they need to find someone with more directorial experience. One of the other directors who have been mentioned on this site could be a better choice.

However, there is always a first time for everything and it only takes one really good movie to put a newcomer director “on the map” as it were.

64. I am not Herbert - November 3, 2013

ok, enough fun… go eat you cupcake… ;-)

65. Stephan - November 3, 2013

So… what was the topic again? Ah, I remember…

I want Brad Bird, no matter if he believes in God or the Great White Handkerchief.

66. K-7 - November 3, 2013

We get it, you are easily impressed with yourself and like to see yourself in print here.

Now please stop monopolizing this thread.

Sheesh!

67. Stephan - November 3, 2013

Ok, accepting that you don’t want to be open minded and eating my cupcake.

68. Matt Wright - November 3, 2013

Warning to “I am not Herbert” – knock it off.

Everyone else, please do not feed the trolls. Let’s get the comments back on topic.

69. Keachick - November 3, 2013

I wonder if Joe Cornish likes cupcakes. They are very English…:), which reminds me that it is coming around to that time of the year when I must get on with some cake baking – anyone for a piece of chocolate cake. I am taking orders…:)

Do I have all the necessary ingredients? Check.

70. I am not Herbert - November 3, 2013

hugs and cupcakes for all! =D

sorry for “trolling”… =(

71. richpit - November 3, 2013

I’ve enjoyed the last 2 movies…and I don’t know anything about this Cornish fellow…but all I’m saying is that this could be a good thing. Fresh blood, an outsider, etc. sometimes, that’s a good thing.

72. Ahmed - November 3, 2013

I think the only reason they would hire Joe Cornish because he is cheap. Why else they would pick him to direct the next one, except for that reason. The guy made just one movie, a low budget one.

I hope this is just a rumor & they will pick a more experienced director. Doesn’t need to be an A-list director but someone with more than one movie on their resume.

73. I am not Herbert - November 3, 2013

JJ did a good job on Alias… look what that got him…!

74. Ahmed - November 3, 2013

@ 72. I am not Herbert – November 3, 2013

“JJ did a good job on Alias… look what that got him…!”

The Lost series pilot that was directed by Abrams cost between $10-14 million (http://tv.yahoo.com/news/most-expensive-tv-pilots-time-game-thrones-lost-230000616.html). That is almost the budget of “Attack the Block”.

There is really no comparison between Abrams & Cornish. Also remember, Abrams first movie was Mission Impossible 3 which cost $150 million.

Abrams was more than ready to direct Star Trek 2009, it is not the same case with Cornish.

75. Dave H - November 3, 2013

I’ll repeat my assessment from the other thread here….I have expanded this to add an additional factor bases on Red Dead Ryan’s assessment:

So we see four factors as to why Paramount can’t attract any heavyweights like Wyatt to direct the next Trek movie:

1. The “spoiled/misbehaving fans” factor. Everyone on the public “scifi internet” got a dose of reality this year on how negative, whiny and spiteful “some” Star Trek fans can be — a few “bad apples” overacted to their dislike of STID, and it went viral on the Internet. This would give any established director pause on whether he wanted to take on a movie known that such fans might react in an extreme negative manner to his product as well.

2. The “I don’t want to be JJ’s bitch” factor. Any director taking this job, is going to be overseen by JJ, as JJ is still running this Enterprise. This is likely perceived as limiting control and artistic license to any director coming in. If you have already “made it.” like a Wyatt, for example, you probably don’t want to be “JJ’s bitch” for this movie.

3. The “working with ‘Crazy Bob’ uncertainty” factor. Bob’s very public batter with negative fans over STID, and combined with what is now common knowledge of his “publicly perceived” extremist conspiracy and 9/11 Truther opinions, would have to give anyone who wanted to be director some pause, to make sure that this guy was someone that they could really work with (and want to work with) for 2 years

4. There has been some “disputes” between Paramount, Bad Robot, and CBS in regards to merchandising. Some have also said that the relationship between the three groups has become dysfunctional. Not sure many big-name directors would want to work under those conditions where the suits can’t put aside there egos.

76. Ahmed - November 3, 2013

@74. Dave H

“2. The “I don’t want to be JJ’s bitch” factor. ”

I didn’t know they are making the next Trek movie in a prison :)

77. Red Dead Ryan - November 3, 2013

#71. Ahmed.

“I think the only reason they would hire Joe Cornish because he is cheap. Why else they would pick him to direct the next one, except for that reason. The guy made just one movie, a low budget one.

I hope this is just a rumor & they will pick a more experienced director. Doesn’t need to be an A-list director but someone with more than one movie on their resume.”

I’m afraid I have to agree with you here. It seems like that Paramount is considering going cheap with a director who will “play ball” with the studio and stay within the boundaries set by the studio in regards to budget and schedule, and possibly creative reasons as well.

78. Mikey1091 - November 3, 2013

They’re considering a no name guy for director? As Bill Engvall might say, slit my jugular right now.

79. Red Dead Ryan - November 3, 2013

#75.

Yes, and the movie will be called “The Star Trek Redemption”. :-)

80. CmdrR - November 3, 2013

I read Snow Crash more than 15 years ago… when it was cutting edge. Now? It would kinda seem like “Tron 3.” Stephenson’s The Diamond Age or (I WISH!) Cryptonomicon would be great movies, but huge in scope and budget. ANY Iain Banks novel would rock, too!

On the main subject, I do not know enough about Cornish to judge here. I am willing to take anyone who can tell a good story.

81. Stephan - November 3, 2013

Just watched “Attack the Block” and don’t like it. I hope they will get another director.

82. Comm. Lohmann - November 3, 2013

I can’t believe people are complaining about hiring “someone who has only directed one low-budget movie.” Trek did this before. When they hired Nicholas Meyer for “Wrath of Khan.”

83. Platitude - November 3, 2013

@81

An excellent point! People here seem to have selective memories.

84. Hat Rick - November 3, 2013

Wait. Joe Who?

85. Ahmed - November 3, 2013

@ 81. Comm. Lohmann – November 3, 2013

“I can’t believe people are complaining about hiring “someone who has only directed one low-budget movie.” Trek did this before. When they hired Nicholas Meyer for “Wrath of Khan.””

Nicholas Meyer first movie was “Time After Time” a low budget movie, but Star Trek II was also low budget movie in term of the budget. “Wrath of Khan” cost just $11 million. So it wasn’t that big jump for Meyer to come to direct ST II.

It is a different story with Joe Cornish. His first & only movie so far, Attack the Block, cost just $ 13 million. And they are asking him to direct a movie that will cost more than $100 million !!!

86. Herbert! Herbert! Herbert! - November 3, 2013

Bread and Circuses

UHURA: I’m afraid you have it all wrong, Mister Spock, all of you. I’ve been monitoring some of their old-style radio waves, the empire spokesman trying to ridicule their religion. But he couldn’t. Don’t you understand? It’s not the sun up in the sky. It’s the Son of God.
KIRK: Caesar and Christ. They had them both. And the word is spreading only now.
MCCOY: A philosophy of total love and total brotherhood.
SPOCK: It will replace their imperial Rome, but it will happen in their twentieth century.
KIRK: Wouldn’t it be something to watch, to be a part of? To see it happen all over again? Mister Chekov, take us out of orbit. Ahead warp factor one.
CHEKOV: Aye, sir.

The Empath

KIRK: Strange.
SPOCK: What is puzzling you, Captain?
KIRK: I’m not puzzled, Mister Spock. I am awed.
MCCOY: I’m with you, Captain. She awed me.
KIRK: No, no. I wasn’t thinking of Gem. I was thinking of that fantastic element of chance that out in limitless space we should come together with Gem.
SPOCK: Captain, the element of chance can virtually be eliminated by a civilisation as advanced as the Vians.
SCOTT: Not to dispute your computer, Mister Spock, but from little what you’ve told me, I would say she was a pearl of great price.
KIRK: What, Scott?
SCOTT: Do you not know the story of the merchant? The merchant, who when he found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had and bought it.
KIRK: Yes, she was all that. And whether the Vians bought her or found her makes little difference. She was of great value.
MCCOY: Well, personally, I find it fascinating that with all their scientific knowledge and advances, that it was good old-fashioned human emotion that they valued the most.
SCOTT: Perhaps the Vulcans should hear about this.
KIRK: Mister Spock, can you be prevailed upon to bring them the news?
SPOCK: Possibly, Captain. I shall certainly give the thought all the consideration it is due.
KIRK: Mister Sulu, ahead warp factor two.
SULU: Aye, aye, sir. Warp factor two.

87. Ahmed - November 3, 2013

@76. Red Dead Ryan

“It seems like that Paramount is considering going cheap with a director who will “play ball” with the studio and stay within the boundaries set by the studio in regards to budget and schedule, and possibly creative reasons as well.”

You are totally right there, it sure looks that way.

88. Ahmed - November 3, 2013

@ 83. Hat Rick – November 3, 2013

“Wait. Joe Who?”

lol, that was my reaction when I read the news yesterday.

89. Newdivide1701 - November 3, 2013

So far… not impressed with his resume. May have a JJ Star Trek the same level as Nemesis in terms of value.

90. dmduncan - November 3, 2013

Haven’t seen Attack the Block but it looks good for the little film that it is.

You do have to wonder about him choking under the higher pressure that comes with a Star Trek movie. But we humans tend to dwell on the worst possible outcome, and it’s also possible that the guy is at the beginning of what will be an impressive moviemaking career if somebody has the guts to give him a shot.

He won’t be making the movie alone, and he’ll have the advantage of some strong guidance, a huge chunk of which will be the script.

So I’m going to support the choice if they pick Cornish.

91. dmduncan - November 3, 2013

18. Ahmed – November 3, 2013

Guys, let focus our discussion on Star Trek & not religious issues.

***

Hahaha! I’m afraid that for some people Star Trek IS a religious issue.

92. dmduncan - November 3, 2013

And don’t be too concerned about them “going cheap” with a guy like Cornish, because the more expensive established guys who aren’t fighting tooth and nail to prove anything anymore are just phoning it in.

Better to get somebody who’s still clawing his way up the mountain than somebody who’s been partying on the top so long that he doesn’t remember or appreciate what it took to get where he is.

93. Jonboc - November 3, 2013

The studio will take Bad Robot’s reccomendation. When the supreme court has looked at the candidates, interviewed the candidates, looked over the body or work or the candidates, they will give their choice to the studio…negotiations wills begin and if all parties are agreeable, that person will get the job. I’m sure much of this has already transpired…once the legalities are figured out and contracts are signed, an official announcement will be made and the wheels will officially be in motion. I just hope ts someone that has style and a good eye. I hate run-of-the-mill, paint by numbers directing and JJ, with his sweeping cameras, crazy angles and over all style has spoiled me! Since they’re calling the shots, I have complete confidence, let’s just get this show on the road.

94. MJB - November 3, 2013

@93 Jonboc
I agree! Let’s get ‘er done!

95. Mike C. - November 3, 2013

I don’t know who Cornish is, but am excited about a fresh take on the TREK universe, and that Paramount is moving quickly on a new film.

96. tom - November 3, 2013

I grow weary of those who insist that being a fan of Star Trek is somehow a credential.

I’d rather have a dynamic director with a cadre of people who educate him on the elements of the original series (and franchise) that would be relevant to this movie…. than have a diehard fan who is a talentless, visionless hack.

That said, I’m not familiar with this director or any of the movies in his filmography.

97. tom - November 3, 2013

Real science goes against the concept of God.

You better tell Thomas Aquinas. He’s clearly an intellectual slouch.

98. Allen Williams - November 3, 2013

Give it to Franks. Seriously He made one of the best Star Trek movies ever (First Contact) and a movie that was really good and while not the best was definitely better than the odd numbered movies.

99. tom - November 3, 2013

@7, I laugh at you. You insult him for being Catholic, and say he is a slave to dogmatic views.

You mean like utopian Liberalism that is riddled all throughout Star Trek?

There’s nothing more dogmatic in the world.

(That said, I like Trek for reasons beyond its political dogma.)

100. tom - November 3, 2013

Those of you who disparage Catholics (or other Christians), as though they are incapable of creating good stories… You must not understand the roots of the Chronicles of Narnia.

Get educated.

101. tom - November 3, 2013

PS, some of you act as though every writer, director, actor, producer, etc. of Star Trek has been an atheist.

So ignorant.

102. Curious Cadet - November 3, 2013

Wow, Ender’s Game only made $8 million dollars more in its opening weekend than Jackass did in its second week. And Jackass opened to $4 million more to boot. Gravity still made almost half as much, and on less than a month has grossed almost as much as STID worldwide (and cost $100 million less to make, and it also cost $10 million less than Ender’s Game).

Sad.

103. Jon Doe - November 3, 2013

NICK MEYER

104. DiscoSpock - November 3, 2013

Dave H,

Outstanding analysis. Let me take your points here one at a time.

“1. The “spoiled/misbehaving fans” factor. Everyone on the public “scifi internet” got a dose of reality this year on how negative, whiny and spiteful “some” Star Trek fans can be — a few “bad apples” overacted to their dislike of STID, and it went viral on the Internet. This would give any established director pause on whether he wanted to take on a movie known that such fans might react in an extreme negative manner to his product as well.”

Yes, this must be taken into account. The animosity that was seen here by a small but extremely vocal and negative group of posters was indicative of a “mob mentality” that also manifested itself at some subgroups and recent TNG-centric fan types of conventions.

“2. The “I don’t want to be JJ’s bitch” factor. Any director taking this job, is going to be overseen by JJ, as JJ is still running this Enterprise. This is likely perceived as limiting control and artistic license to any director coming in. If you have already “made it.” like a Wyatt, for example, you probably don’t want to be “JJ’s bitch” for this movie.”

JJ, at least in terms of perceived scifi/fantasy power/leadership in movies, is now perceived (whether we like it or not) by many to be up there with Lucas, Spielberg and Peter Jackson. With that level that he’s at, it makes it hard to bring in an already established director like a Wyatt or a Yates. In fact, it pretty much guarantees that the best you can do if bring in up and coming type of talent. So hopefully, Joe Cornish ends up being to JJ what Neil Blomkamp ended up being under Peter Jackson’s guidance.

“3. The “working with ‘Crazy Bob’ uncertainty” factor. Bob’s very public batter with negative fans over STID, and combined with what is now common knowledge of his “publicly perceived” extremist conspiracy and 9/11 Truther opinions, would have to give anyone who wanted to be director some pause, to make sure that this guy was someone that they could really work with (and want to work with) for 2 years.”

Bob’s recent very public tirade against Ahmed, that was broadcast all over the Internet, not only exposed him as bit hot tempered, but it also put a spotlight on him from many people on the internet who had pretty much ignored all of his wack-job big brother conspiracy nonsense over the years. So yea, I think a new director would of course want to make sure that he could work with this guy for a couple of years. (FYI — I really appreciate all Bob’s work on nuTrek, but am trying to be realistic here).

“4. There has been some “disputes” between Paramount, Bad Robot, and CBS in regards to merchandising. Some have also said that the relationship between the three groups has become dysfunctional. Not sure many big-name directors would want to work under those conditions where the suits can’t put aside there egos.”

Agreed. This is getting a bit silly. They need to figure out a way to reunite the Star Trek product here at some point.

105. Curious Cadet - November 3, 2013

Wow, meanwhile Thor 2 earned almost $110 million worldwide in its opening weekend. Ender’s will be obliterated when Thor 2 opens here next weekend, and Hunger Games two weeks later.

Looks like STID is going to finish out of the top 10 for the year.

106. DiscoSpock - November 3, 2013

Tom, enough with your “those of you,” “some of you” crap. If you have an issue with I am Not Herbert, then please direct your posts in response to him directly, and leave the rest of us out of your lecturing posts.

107. DiscoSpock - November 3, 2013

Wow, Curious Cadet is posting about other movies financials again as a way to infer that STID tanked, even though it’s now made about $600M, including DVD/Blur-Ray.

Wow!

Wow!

LOL :-))

108. Gary 8 .5 - November 3, 2013

Ender’s Game isnt exacty known to todays audiences.
It might as wel be an unknown franchise because it practically is .

109. TreK_Fan - November 3, 2013

Maybe since JJ is directing the new Star Wars film, George Lucas otta take a shot at directing the next Star Trek film. Wouldn’t that be something!?!

110. K-7 - November 3, 2013

No! Frake’s TNG movie isn’t even close to be as good at ST III TSFS.

Go back again now and watch how cheesy the deflector dish sequence looks now in First Contact. That scene has aged really poorly — it’s embarrassing to watch it now.

98. Allen Williams – November 3, 2013
Give it to Franks. Seriously He made one of the best Star Trek movies ever (First Contact) and a movie that was really good and while not the best was definitely better than the odd numbered movies.

111. K-7 - November 3, 2013

Ahmed,

I kind of find your bitching and sarcasm on Cornish to be disingenuous. Based on Dave H’s assessment, which I agree with, you are someone who may be at least partly responsible for as to why they cannot get an established director singed on. In Dave’s 4 points, you were both a significant player in #1 (irate fans going public on the internet), and in point #3 (it was your comments that Bob Orci overrated to, and led to him being criticized very badly all over the internet).

With all due respect, Ahmed, you would be well advised to perhaps just keep your piehole closed during this discussion we are having here. You are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

112. dmduncan - November 3, 2013

102. Curious Cadet – November 3, 2013

Have you seen Ender’s Game? It’s a big movie. Not sure a comparison to Gravity or Bad Grandpa is appropriate. They also shot Ender’s Game in Louisiana to save money.

Ender’s Game is also a tougher idea to sell either than Bad Grandpa or Gravity. It’s not as simple an idea, and audiences like to “get” the idea in the trailer very quickly. The most interesting thing about Ender’s Game is not humanity’s fight for survival against aliens, which is literally not even true about the movie, but it’s the closest thing to a synopsis that fits into the sort of action-packed trailer that gets people to turn out for SF.

113. Ahmed - November 3, 2013

@ 96. tom – November 3, 2013

“That said, I’m not familiar with this director or any of the movies in his filmography.”

Not movies, just ONE movie.

114. DiscoSpock - November 3, 2013

Dave H,

Outstanding analysis. Let me take your points here one at a time.

“1. The “spoiled/misbehaving fans” factor. Everyone on the public “scifi internet” got a dose of reality this year on how negative, whiny and spiteful “some” Star Trek fans can be — a few “bad apples” overacted to their dislike of STID, and it went viral on the Internet. This would give any established director pause on whether he wanted to take on a movie known that such fans might react in an extreme negative manner to his product as well.”

Yes, this must be taken into account. The animosity that was seen here by a small but extremely vocal and negative group of posters was indicative of a “mob mentality” that also manifested itself at some subgroups and recent TNG-centric fan types of conventions.

“2. The “I don’t want to be JJ’s bittch” factor. Any director taking this job, is going to be overseen by JJ, as JJ is still running this Enterprise. This is likely perceived as limiting control and artistic license to any director coming in. If you have already “made it.” like a Wyatt, for example, you probably don’t want to be “JJ’s bitch” for this movie.”

JJ, at least in terms of perceived scifi/fantasy power/leadership in movies, is now perceived (whether we like it or not) by many to be up there with Lucas, Spielberg and Peter Jackson. With that level that he’s at, it makes it hard to bring in an already established director like a Wyatt or a Yates. In fact, it pretty much guarantees that the best you can do if bring in up and coming type of talent. So hopefully, Joe Cornish ends up being to JJ what Neil Blomkamp ended up being under Peter Jackson’s guidance.

“3. The “working with ‘Crazy Bob’ uncertainty” factor. Bob’s very public batter with negative fans over STID, and combined with what is now common knowledge of his “publicly perceived” extremist conspiracy and 9/11 Truther opinions, would have to give anyone who wanted to be director some pause, to make sure that this guy was someone that they could really work with (and want to work with) for 2 years.”

Bob’s recent very public tirade against Ahmed, that was broadcast all over the Internet, not only exposed him as bit hot tempered, but it also put a spotlight on him from many people on the internet who had pretty much ignored all of his wacky big brother conspiracy nonsense over the years. So yea, I think a new director would of course want to make sure that he could work with this guy for a couple of years. (FYI — I really appreciate all Bob’s work on nuTrek, but am trying to be realistic here).

“4. There has been some “disputes” between Paramount, Bad Robot, and CBS in regards to merchandising. Some have also said that the relationship between the three groups has become dysfunctional. Not sure many big-name directors would want to work under those conditions where the suits can’t put aside there egos.”

Agreed. This is getting a bit silly. They need to figure out a way to reunite the Star Trek product here at some point.

115. DiscoSpock - November 3, 2013

Hi Matt,

Why isn’t my detailed response to Dave H’s four points getting posted here? I have tried twice, including making some changes to it?

Thanks, Disco

116. Ahmed - November 3, 2013

@108. K-7

“With all due respect, Ahmed, you would be well advised to perhaps just keep your piehole closed during this discussion we are having here. You are part of the problem, not part of the solution.”

Here we were having adult discussions about the possible new director & you come up with that childish rant.

117. K-7 - November 3, 2013

You reap what you sow, Ahmed.

Let’s just hope this guy in the next Blomkamp. His one movie was highly thought of.

111. Ahmed – November 3, 2013
@ 96. tom – November 3, 2013

“That said, I’m not familiar with this director or any of the movies in his filmography.”

Not movies, just ONE movie.

118. dmduncan - November 3, 2013

Hey looky here. There was also a time when Stanley Kubrick and Francis Copolla were young enough to have each made only one movie.

And Star Trek was JJ Abrams’ SECOND directorial feature.

Don’t focus too much on what little Cornish has done. Attack the Block is available to watch on iTunes and Amazon, so you should at least get an idea of his style and skills before trashing him.

119. Curious Cadet - November 3, 2013

@109. dmduncan,

Haven’t seen it yet. Granted a comparison to those movies is not appropriate, but that has nothing to do with box office. That’s why it’s sad. Boxoffice mojo is already comparing Ender’s Game with After Earth which went down in flames at the box office.

Perhaps there’s hope for Ender’s Game, who knows, but it’s a pretty poor opening weekend compared to films opening around it. At least it won the weekend. Unfortunately its international box office suggests it won’t do very well internationally either. I do have to wonder if it did as well as it did because Harrison Ford was in it, just as After Earth arguably did as well as it did because Will Smith was in it.

120. K-7 - November 3, 2013

“Here we were having adult discussions about the possible new director & you come up with that childish rant.”

Actually, your childish rants may have played a role in why we can’t get an established director here, guy. A lot of us complained here and tried to calm down you and you anti-STID cronies for a couple of months here to no avail. When it all ended, Bob’s reputation was damaged, and now established directors may not want the baggage of having to please fans like you and cronies.

If you can’t even take some small measure of accountability for this, then at least do us all the favor of stopping your whining about the new director choice. This is the result of the summer of acrimony from you and others. It’s time to pay the piper for your all.

121. Ahmed - November 3, 2013

@114. dmduncan

“Don’t focus too much on what little Cornish has done. Attack the Block is available to watch on iTunes and Amazon, so you should at least get an idea of his style and skills before trashing him.”

OK, I will watch it to get a sense of the guy.

122. Dave H - November 3, 2013

Hey Ahmed,

Look at the bright side, my friend. If Cornish turns out a great Star Trek movie, then you can take credit for the director’s choice. ;-)

123. Ahmed - November 3, 2013

@116. K-7

“Actually, your childish rants may have played a role in why we can’t get an established director here, ”

Are you serious ? I had no idea !!

Tell you what, I’m going to call my agent in LA, Mr. Ray Donovan, first thing in the morning to get in touch with the A-list directors who ran away from a multimillion movie deal because of my comment.

I’m sure, once they are assured that I will not comment on their work, they will beg Paramount to let them direct the next movie. Are you happy now ?

124. K-7 - November 3, 2013

Ahmed, you can keep cherry-picking a sentence here or there to support your sarcastic retorts, if you must, but again….

In Dave’s 4 points, you were both a significant player in #1 (irate fans going public on the internet), and in point #3 (it was your comments that Bob Orci overrated to, and led to him being criticized very badly all over the internet)….A lot of us complained here and tried to calm down you and you anti-STID cronies for a couple of months here to no avail. When it all ended, Bob’s reputation was damaged, and now established directors may not want the baggage of having to please fans like you and cronies.

125. Gary 8.5 - November 3, 2013

I hope Ender”s Game unexpectedly holds.
Sounds like it could be a good movie.

126. dmduncan - November 3, 2013

After Earth cost 130 and it made 243. You could do a lot worse than that.

Give Ender’s Game a chance; after only its third day in release I think news of its death are WAY premature.

127. Ahmed - November 3, 2013

@120. K-7

“When it all ended, Bob’s reputation was damaged”

Current & Upcoming Projects by Bob:

The Amazing Spider-Man 4 (executive producer) (announced)
Untitled Mummy Reboot (producer) (announced)
Van Helsing (producer) (announced)
Secret Cabinet (TV Movie) (executive producer) (pre-production)
The Amazing Spider-Man 2 (executive producer) (post-production)
Ender’s Game (producer)
Sleepy Hollow (TV Series) (executive producer)

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0649460/

Yeah, I can clearly see that Bob is out of work because his “reputation was damaged” !!

128. MJ -- THE GRAND RETURN !!! - November 3, 2013

Everyone, let’s just please cool down a bit here.

K-7, please stop going overboard on Ahmed in this thread. It was not his fault that Orci just happened to respond to his particular post when that whole episode that went viral last summer went down.

Ahmed, please understand, that given your history, it just isn’t looking all that credible when YOU are the person wondering why established directors are shying away from Trek.

Dave H, I agree fully with the totality of your four points. Those points, taken together, explain to my scarification why Wyatt (or similar) will not sign on to nuTrek 3.

PEACE ALL !!!

129. Ahmed - November 3, 2013

@ 122. dmduncan – November 3, 2013

“Give Ender’s Game a chance; after only its third day in release I think news of its death are WAY premature.”

Agreed.

130. K-7 - November 3, 2013

“Yeah, I can clearly see that Bob is out of work….”

Every single one of those productions you referenced was already in place before yours and Orci’s infamous public incident two months ago.

131. Ahmed - November 3, 2013

@124. MJ

“Ahmed, please understand, that given your history, it just isn’t looking all that credible when YOU are the person wondering why established directors are shying away from Trek.”

Well, I guess based on your logic, that I should not comment on any Trek related issues because of MY HISTORY !!!

Sorry mate, I still live in a free country where I can say whatever I want whenever I want. If you have an issue with my past, present & future comments, well, there is nothing that I can do about that.

132. Ahmed - November 3, 2013

@ 126. K-7 – November 3, 2013

“Every single one of those productions you referenced was already in place before yours and Orci’s infamous public incident two months ago.”

Are you saying that Bob is out of work? Are you talking about our Bob or the one in the other universe :)

133. Commodore Adams - November 3, 2013

@106. TreK_Fan

Wouldn’t that be interesting. We know that Lucas is a Trek fan, and it influenced his love of sci fi.

134. K-7 - November 3, 2013

@128

Enought with you silly attempts to discredit me by putting words in my mouth. I said that I agreed with Dave H’s point 3, which is:

DAVE H: “3. The “working with ‘Crazy Bob’ uncertainty” factor. Bob’s very public batter with negative fans over STID, and combined with what is now common knowledge of his “publicly perceived” extremist conspiracy and 9/11 Truther opinions, would have to give anyone who wanted to be director some pause, to make sure that this guy was someone that they could really work with (and want to work with) for 2 years.”

This is what I agree with. Yes, an established director like a Wyatt would likely want to make sure he could work with Bob given all of this. I never said Bob couldn’t find work — you are the one posting about that, not me.

Ahmed, I challenge you to actually debate what I am saying, instead of what you would like to falsely claim what I am saying. Please stop twisting my words and making crap up that I am not saying.

135. MJ -- THE GRAND RETURN !!! - November 3, 2013

@Ahmed

“Sorry mate, I still live in a free country where I can say whatever I want whenever I want. If you have an issue with my past, present & future comments, well, there is nothing that I can do about that.”

Sure. Then why are you being such a hothead over the hypothesis presented here that one of several reasons why we can’t get a name director for the new Trek movie could be due to all the public fan negativity, including the Orci incident with you, from last summer?

I think that this could certainly be one of several reasons why its been hard to get a name director.

Burying your head in the sand over this, just because you had a bit of history in this areas, seems bit selfish and overly defensive to me.

I am not upset with you. I like you dude. But I track Trek fandom and Trek events, and I certainly do think this all may have been just one of several reasons why we can’t get a name director.

So again, why are you being such a hothead over this? My advice to you would be to stop letting K-7 bait you on this, and just admit that this could be a minor part of the reason why they can’t get a name director. It’s no big deal, dude, and it might work out for Trek for the best anyways.

136. K-7 - November 3, 2013

MJ, think about it — there is a obvious reason when someone get’s overly defensive when a particular topic is brought up.

137. MJ -- THE GRAND RETURN !!! - November 3, 2013

@K-7

Chill out, man. Enough!

138. Ahmed - November 3, 2013

@ 132. K-7 – November 3, 2013

“MJ, think about it — there is a obvious reason when someone get’s overly defensive when a particular topic is brought up”

“overly defensive” ??

I’m actually having fun reading your comments, that why I’m responding to you & not ignoring you. You see, I’m in a good mood tonight :)

139. Phil - November 3, 2013

This is a rumor. At this point, nothing more, nothing less….

140. Ahmed - November 3, 2013

@131. MJ — THE GRAND RETURN !!! – November 3, 2013

“So again, why are you being such a hothead over this? My advice to you would be to stop letting K-7 bait you on this”

Like I told my dear friend K-7, I’m just having fun responding to that “hypothesis”.

141. Ahmed - November 3, 2013

@ 135. Phil – November 3, 2013

“This is a rumor. At this point, nothing more, nothing less….”

Dude, why did you need to mention that ? We were having fun here :)

142. Bill Peters - November 3, 2013

I’d like to see them, give the Dirctors Chair to Bob Orci, seeming he has been executive producer in so many big Projects.

143. Cygnus-X1 - November 3, 2013

75. Dave H – November 3, 2013

I hate to sound like a broken record here, but isn’t just possible that certain directors won’t direct a script written by Orci & Kurtzman for reasons implied repeatedly and in fair detail by a majority of the top film critics in their reviews of past Orci & Kurtzman scripts?

I realize that the half dozen or so Orci “fans” here who at times appear to have taken on the role of Schutzstaffel for Bad Robot, stamping out dissent and politely bullying critics into silence, may feel as though their admiration of Bob Orci as an amazing screenwriting talent is the prevalent opinion, but we don’t see internet “brats misbehaving” about Nick Meyer’s writing, do we? Where are the blogs and page-long reviews detailing how bad Nick Meyer’s writing was and how he ruined Star Trek? Where are the consistently bad reviews of scripts written by…say…David O. Russell?

Don’t you think that maybe…just maybe…all of the top film critics might actually have a valid point? And that maybe it’s not the fault of Ahmed and the “internet brats” if a great, well-established director doesn’t sign up to direct Star Trek 3?

Just the faintest possibility?

144. Cygnus-X1 - November 3, 2013

P.S.

And would you stop for a moment and consider the implications of what you’re saying? You’re actually saying that, if people don’t like Bob Orci’s writing, that it’s their fault and they’re the problem, not Bob Orci’s writing.

You’ve basically assumed the same defensive posture as Bob Orci when he criticizes fans as “lazy viewers” when they complain about his script being confusing and nonsensical. It’s not Bob Orci’s writing that’s the problem, it’s the rest of the world that finds fault with it that’s the problem. It’s not Bob Orci’s writing that’s lazy or poorly thought through, it’s the people who find so many problems with his writing who are lazy and not sufficiently thoughtful.

145. Red Shirt Diaries - November 3, 2013

Ah, hey Cygnus guy, come on man — there was no Internet back when Nick Meyers did those Trek movies. Who knows what might have happened if there was? Perhaps Ahmed’s dad and K-7′s dad would have been arguing back then about the writing. ;-)

So guy, the point you are trying to make is DOA or nonsensical — take your pick?

And why is every-time the STID haters subgroup loses an argument here, they whine like little babies and infer some secret cabal of Orci-loving bullies or whatever? Grow up, man, and if you were paying any attention at all here tonight (you are the lazy one here), you’d see that these people you have a hate for have hardly been kind in voicing some opinions of Bob Orci.

146. MJ -- THE GRAND RETURN !!! - November 4, 2013

@Cygnus X-1

“I realize that the half dozen or so Orci “fans” here who at times appear to have taken on the role of Schutzstaffel”

Wow, you basically just called Dave H, K-7, RDR and I Nazi’s.

Nice. :-(

One of the other STID haters in your subgroup called me a “stupid-cuunt” last week.

Wow, your little splinter cell really gets nasty when you lose the war of ideas here. I, for one, will never stoop to your petty, angry, jealous, mean level of discourse.

147. MJ -- THE GRAND RETURN !!! - November 4, 2013

Ahmed,

See!!! This is the type of “bad fan” that people in the public eye are now seeing. This is not good for Star Trek.

148. K-7 - November 4, 2013

MJ,

Not just Nazi’s. I believe that that’s the infamous “S.S.” that Cygnus X-1 is labeling us as. You know, the people who engineered the Holocast and killed six million human beings.

149. K-7 - November 4, 2013

He is the full definition:

“From modest beginnings the SS (Schutzstaffel; Protection Squadrons), became a virtual state within a state in Nazi Germany, staffed by men who perceived themselves as the “racial elite” of Nazi future. In the Nazi state, the SS assumed leading responsibility for security, identification of ethnicity, settlement and population policy, and intelligence collection and analysis. The SS controlled the German police forces and the concentration camp system. The SS conceived and implemented plans designed to restructure the ethnic composition of eastern Europe and the occupied Soviet Union. From 1939, the SS assumed responsibility for “solving” the so-called Jewish Question; after 1941, its leadership planned, coordinated and directed the so-called Final Solution of the Jewish Question. This “solution” was the annihilation of the European Jews, which we now refer to as the Holocaust.”

150. Dave H - November 4, 2013

Cygnus X-1,

That’s just pathetic. Worst trolling comment that I have ever seen here.

Shame on you!!!

151. ironhyde - November 4, 2013

OMG they’re making an adaptation of Snow Crash?? Wonderful. Fingers crossed they do it well!

152. Dave H - November 4, 2013

Re: Cygnus X-1

What is wrong with you?

153. Crewman Darnell - November 4, 2013

Whew-boy…

I’ve been a regular reader and casual commenter since the early months when this site first went online, so I’ve pretty much seen the development of trekmovie.com, from its birth to present-day.. Since those days when all we had to go by were those “teaser” blue and gold mission-patch visuals, some of us have been dazzled by what Bad Robot has provided. Some of us have also felt underwhelmed by the concurrent films. Sorry. As a lifelong fan, I’m of the latter. In a perfect world, I’d love to share in some general nit-picking, but (in my own opinion) the last Trek movie in particular was really bad. It was badly written, directed and produced. Worst of all, it didn’t feel like a “Star Trek Movie.” Watching it, I felt like was seeing some dumb-ass Michael Bey flick. I realize that nowadays it takes action scenes to get butts in the theater seats, yet WTF??

I was following that infamous thread when “Ahmed” supposedly ‘drove’ Roberto Orci into his online tantrum. I’ve even re-read it a few times and I still don’t see where “Ahmed” is being such an asshole as a few other Trekmovie.com regs are claiming. I don’t agree with all of “Ahmed’s” critiques, yet from my screen, he comes across as being a pretty well-spoken fellow.

154. BatlethInTheGroin - November 4, 2013

This is disappointing. I was hoping they’d hire a director with more talent and experience.

155. Damian - November 4, 2013

Hiring an inexperienced director can go one of 2 ways. I do agree, it would be a sign Paramount wants to pare back the budget for the next film. STID did not make as much as they anticipated it would, so they may be looking to scale it back a bit.

They did that with TWOK, and that turned out rather well. Sometimes it forces more creativity out of the writers and production people.

But it could turn out like TFF. I still liked TFF as it did have some of the best character moments of the movies, but it does rank in last place among movies for me. Part of this was Paramount interference though (Shatner did want a more serious movie, but the studio insisted on tapping TVH comedy well again). Also, TFF was done on a bare bones budget.

The same goes for an inexperienced director. You could end up with another Stuart Baird. I was one of the 10 people that liked Nemesis, and thought it was a middle of the road Star Trek movie. Baird is fine as an editor (he’s edited the last 3 Bond films and they turned out rather well), but not as good a director. Had they hired a better director, things may have turned out differently.

At the end of the day, we’ll here many things between now and when the next film is released, some true, and some probably not true. We’ll have to wait to see how it all turns out.

The only thing I will say is don’t forget to advertise in the US well in advance of the film. Also, secrecy is fine and has been done to a certain extent on all the films, but please, no disinformation this time. The team all but lied about Khan being in STID. It’s fine to omit information and tell people they’ll have to see the film, but don’t say something isn’t if it is.

156. jas_montreal - November 4, 2013

I doubt Joe will direct. According to other reports, he rejected an initial offer from Paramount to direct Trek 13. — Regardless. I’m pretty happy new blood is being injected into Trek. I want a new direction !

157. Mad Mann - November 4, 2013

While I had many disagreements with Mr. Orci in the past, I am all for him writing the next Trek solo. I think that Lindelof muddled the script up way too much the last time, and Kurtzman may put too many cutesy type items into it.

Orci wants to go full sci-fi for the next one. He stated so. He was against Khan from the beginning and I think he still feels it was a mistake to use that character, although he will never admit it.

Orci: if you read this: fight for the solo writing job on this. Show the world what you can do on your own. You got this.

158. Mad Mann - November 4, 2013

@ 25. Smike

BTW: The movie Gravity IS science fiction. It is NOT science realism. There were far too many science mistakes in that movie to take it seriously. When it comes out on video, I will buy it only to show my students how the many science errors it made and use it to start a lesson. I guess I appreciate it for that.

159. Exverlobter - November 4, 2013

Meh,
I expected someone as experienced as Brad Bird, Rupert Wyatt or Joseph Kosinkski. Never heard of this Cornish-guy, could turn out great in the end, but who knows. It’s not a safe bet for sure.

As i expected in January Kathlleen Kennedy stole our director and Paramount is not cabaple of attracting someone of the same league.

160. RenderedToast - November 4, 2013

Joe Cornish would have much more respect for the source material than Abrams did, so that would be good, but I have no knowledge of his directorial skills. He does seem a little small-fry to be handed the reigns of this mega-blockbuster franchise.

161. Mr. Anonymous - November 4, 2013

What the hell does being Catholic have to do with writing Star Trek?

162. Trekbilly - November 4, 2013

Ugh…Klingons Wars here we come! :-( They are just going by the numbers with these films. I’m sure Orci was locked into Klingon Wars a long time ago.:-/

163. Trekbilly - November 4, 2013

#154 — Amen!! That was a ridiculous exchange…

164. Mr. Anonymous - November 4, 2013

@ I am not Herbert

I don’t get the Catholic comment. What are you going to suggest next? That Leonard Nimoy shouldn’t have ever been in Star Trek because he’s Jewish? Ugh, quit suggesting bigoted nonsense.

165. Exverlobter - November 4, 2013

This catholic issue here is the most pointless discussion ever on Trekmovie.
Say something about who should be the next director not unrelated nonsense

166. dmduncan - November 4, 2013

A Klingon war movie COULD be great, BUT they’re going to need good instincts in the writing of that thing or it could turn into a comic bookish disaster with idiot Klingons melodramatically grunting about honor.

167. dmduncan - November 4, 2013

Every bit of Klingon dialogue that gets influenced by TNG Klingons should be visualized by the writer as sabotage of the production.

168. Phil - November 4, 2013

@139. Really? Can’t refute the premise, so demonize the supporters? How so very Nazi-like of you…….

169. Robman007 - November 4, 2013

This kinda feels like another Paramount dumb move…repeating the past, as they did with Nemesis. I don’t think they really care that the next film will be a 50th anniversary film…they seem to view Into Darkness as a failure and will go about this film as a “get it done so we can be done” film….

I’m hoping for a sale of the franchise…get it out of the hands of CBS/Paramount. Those two have done enough to screw things up over and over again.

170. dmduncan - November 4, 2013

I think it’s more likely that if they CAN’T get a more established director—and they probably WANT someone up and coming who’s just CHEAPER!—but if they CAN’T, then it’s probably more likely that Star Trek itself is the thing that turns them off.

People don’t have a love it or hate it relationship with Star Trek. They have a love it or don’t give a crap about it relationship with Star Trek.

171. Dennis Bailey - November 4, 2013

If some folks don’t like Orci’s writing, that’s certainly a problem for them rather than a problem for him – the guy’s in great demand in the business because of past and continued success. That’s the bottom line.

172. John - November 4, 2013

I Agree – I think it is a mistake to hire a guy who made just one low budget movie to direct a multimillion-dollar 50th anniversary Trek movie

173. crazydaystrom - November 4, 2013

How much studios and directors pay attention to debates and carrying on such as this thread I don’t know. Less than a lot of folks believe, I wager. I could be wrong about that. But of all the things for someone to consider when deciding whether to take a job that’ll be as high paying and potentially career boosting as helming ANY big-budgeted chapter of a franchise the comments of a handful of folks like us on this thread would be a minuscule factor, I believe.

And all this over what right now is only a rumor, we seem to forget. Two or three days ago the rumor (and IMDB) said Rupert Wyatt. Today it’s Cornish. I say wait and see. And even then, DO NOT ATTACK! Especially then.

174. Red Dead Ryan - November 4, 2013

#139. Cygnus X-1.

What the hell’s wrong with you? Calling some of us here Nazis? I think you owe everyone on this thread an apology……but I doubt we will get one from you just like how we haven’t seen Dom own up and apologize for his “choice words” used against MJ.

It’s funny how folks like me, MJ, RSD, K-7, Dave H., AAPB, and others are labelled as bullies, yet there have been a number of anti-Abrams folks who aren’t hesitant to resort to name-calling and insults, all the while (albeit briefly) driving Bob Orci away from this site. Oh, the irony! :-)

As for the director, I haven’t seen much of his work, so my criticisms of his rumored hiring are directed more at Paramount, who I suspect are looking to go cheap for the third movie just to get it done and out of the way.

175. Alec - November 4, 2013

In terms of “Star Trek 3″ as a whole, the director truly isn’t the issue. It doesn’t matter if Joe Cornish or Rupert Wyatt is the director. The issue is the screenwriters and the lack of fresh ideas. “Star Trek: Into Darkness” was a reheated bowl of old soup. We need some originality.

The modern films need to be less action-oriented and more about exploring grander “ideas.” Ironically, “Star Trek Into Darkness” was publicly touted by screenwriters Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci to be a “less action, more ideas” “deeply philosophical” drama. Yet, as Karl Urban noted, Into Darkness was more or less a straightforward “revenge” action film. Was it a great, entertaining film? Of course. But whether or not the film was “fun” or “cool” isn’t Urban’s point…

As such, I believe Star Trek 3 would benefit from new screenwriters who emphasize substance over style. Yes, Orci and Kurtzman are good writers and make solid action films like Transformers and Zorro, but they have obvious thematic limits when it comes to actual science fiction.

I enjoyed both Star Trek (2009) and Star Trek Into Darkness (2013). Both were fun, entertaining popcorn flicks. But is that all Trek should be? Instead of exploring deeper issues about our society and future, the Trek film franchise has become formulaic dumbed-down summer blockbusters ala Spider-Man or The Avengers.

176. Danpaine - November 4, 2013

166. crazydaystrom – November 4, 2013

How much studios and directors pay attention to debates and carrying on such as this thread I don’t know. Less than a lot of folks believe, I wager.

—————-

I tend to agree. Actually, for some here to even consider that studios and directors are letting their decisions (and wallets) be dictated by some of the petulant knife-throwing in these threads reeks of hubris.

I also agree with those who think Paramount may simply be going on the cheap this time around, IF this Cornish rumor is true. Get the trilogy over with and off their plate.

177. I am not Herbert - November 4, 2013

this job will be another scramble until the last minute to find someone stupid/greedy enough to risk their career… like Cumberbatch…

really sad that the 50th anniv. will be another last-minute half-assed cash-grab… =(

thanks, JJ! =(

178. crazydaystrom - November 4, 2013

@I am not Herbert-

You are not a shining light of possitivity either. Hahaha. Do you just need to get all this off your chest so badly or what? Your point’s been gotten. The nail has been driven. Why carry on? And on and on…

BTW I’m starting to think you ARE Herbert and your pants are on fire!

179. DiscoSpock - November 4, 2013

Red Dead,

Did you notice how Cygnus X-1 has now completely vanished after his awful remark of comparing you to a Gestapo officer, just the way that Dom vanished last week after his use of that horrid anti-women term on this site?

I’ll let you and others draw their own conclusions from this obvious pattern of behavior.

180. Changs Gang - November 4, 2013

“What the hell does being Catholic have to do with writing Star Trek?”

AMEN! What a ridiculous exchange of nonsense.

“….what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”

181. DiscoSpock - November 4, 2013

crazydaystrom,

As someone said awhile back, he’s not Herbert, but he certainly is a dumb-ass.

LOL

182. crazydaystrom - November 4, 2013

168. Danpaine
I also agree with those who think Paramount may simply be going on the cheap this time around, IF this Cornish rumor is true. Get the trilogy over with and off their plate.

I don’t have a problem with a lowered budget so long as it’s not too low a budget. What I want most is quality of story and script. Of course the best of everything would be the ideal…

183. Damian - November 4, 2013

167–The anti-Abrams crew has been getting more restless lately. Some of the name-calling is shameful. I mean, comparing Abrams fans to Nazi Germany really is over the top. People are not going to be executed because they happened to like STID.

I can’t say I’ve ever felt belittled or bullied by Berman-era detractors because I happened to like that era of Trek too. I’ve had spirited debates with some posters about the ups and downs of that period, but it’s never degenerated into name calling. At the end of the day, we just have to agree to disagree on some things.

I think sometimes, people here just need to remember, it’s entertainment. People are not going to live or die on the success of the next film.

And the beauty of Star Trek is that there is a lot of it. If you hate Abrams take on Star Trek, there’s still 10 movies, 5 TV series and an animated series to enjoy. And Pocketbooks has continued the storylines from the spin-offs, even Voyager, so the prime universe continues.

And if you hate Berman era Trek too, well you still have a TV series, animated series and there are still original series books being released several times a year.

So no reason to get bent out of shape.

184. Damian - November 4, 2013

Edit–Executed because the happened NOT to like STID.

185. Ahmed - November 4, 2013

@175. Damian

“And the beauty of Star Trek is that there is a lot of it. If you hate Abrams take on Star Trek, there’s still 10 movies, 5 TV series and an animated series to enjoy. And Pocketbooks has continued the storylines from the spin-offs, even Voyager, so the prime universe continues.

And if you hate Berman era Trek too, well you still have a TV series, animated series and there are still original series books being released several times a year. ”

Well said.

186. Keachick - November 4, 2013

Yes, Joe Cornish being considered for director of the next Star Trek is just another rumour, nothing more. No director has been signed on yet and there is nothing to suggest that any one of the previous directors mentioned previously may not eventually take the directorial reins.

Too much trolling, name calling and derailments, especially and starting with I am not Herbert’s insulting and rubbish filled comments. Cygnus’s comments referring to some as being akin to the SS is a new low…

Enough! Calling Matt Wright!

187. dswynne - November 4, 2013

You know, I WAS hoping that I could get some real news from this site without the trolls (“I AM NOT HERBERT”), the jerks (“Ahmed”) and the haters (“Cygnus X-1″) popping in to spout nonsense that takes away from the actual topic. Silly me…

But on to the topic: they really should get Jonathan Frakes to direct, if Paramount has a hard time securing a director. Frakes is an experienced director, likes JJ Abrams, and he knows Star Trek. Plus, IMO, he did a good job on both “First Contact” and “Insurrection”, the later getting a bad “rap” simply because the plot uninspiring (“Picard saves ‘white people’ for the physically attractive woman he loves”). And having Frakes aboard just might allow him to influence Orci and Kurtzman’s script, which could either a) allow some peppering of other Trek actors and b) allow a previous Trek character to appear. My personal scenario would be Admiral Riker show up to take Leonard Nemoy’s Old Spock back home, where he belongs, thus allowing NuTrek to flourish or fail without the “cheat” of Old Spock’s insights.

Food for thought.

188. sonarman - November 4, 2013

Of course this is not the first time Joe Cornish has worked on a Trek related project as this video featuring his friend Adam Buxton proves (from the Adam & Joe show UK Channel 4 2006). They also did at least one Trek parody with teddies but sadly it’s not available on youTube at the moment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3HL8XVMih8

189. Marja - November 4, 2013

115 Curious, Re: Ender’s Game, While my friend and I liked the movie well enough, and certainly its theme, I can tell you we slunk in there because of our reluctance to support OS Card’s homophobia and religious views, both of which we disagree with; however our curiosity about the film overcame our reluctance. Fortunately neither Card’s homophobia nor religion were explored in the film.

“Ender’s Game” may be having a very poor showing in the US because of a huge boycott of Card by every gay-friendly organization, and by many SciFi fans who feel strongly about human rights.

That said, Asa Butterfield was fantastic in the title role, and I enjoyed seeing Ford. Even though I feel hypocritical as hell.

190. Marja - November 4, 2013

116 K-7, In all fairness, Mr Orci did some of that damage to his own reputation. Sure, Ahmed pushed him, but Bob chose to respond to Ahmed, and not in the most diplomatic manner.

I’ve noticed that heated posts and heated responses sometimes take up an inordinate amount of space on this board. When I’m angered by a post I try to step away from the keyboard for awhile to formulate a cogent response, because I’ve seen too much time and too many words spent on “attacks” and “defenses” and all that.

191. Marja - November 4, 2013

106 TrekFan, Gawd no. I’d really like to see Spielberg direct it, because he shows a better sense of character and less reliance on SFX. Lucas has a great visual sense and sympathy with SFX, but his character writing and directing are wooden.

192. Damian - November 4, 2013

179–True enough. I think sometimes people get caught up in the heat of the moment. I usually try to read my posts before hitting “Say It.”

I once got into a heated exchange on another board on an unrelated matter and started getting overly hostile myself. It was stupid and I’ve tried not to repeat that mistake. It’s not worth it, and it is stupid. I mean, folks, it’s a movie and a TV show.

I know some here feel the pro-Abrams crowd outnumbers the anti crowd. But let’s face it, first this site is called “Trekmovie.com”, and second, that’s what’s being produced now. So of course there’s going to be more news and information about Abrams trek. Not to mention, like it or not, the last 2 Star Trek movies were popular. More people liked them than not. So this board basically reflects people’s views of the film proportionately.

193. Marja - November 4, 2013

139 & 140 Cygnus, Sure, Orci&Kurtzman’s scripts are problematic, but they’re writing for a faulty medium to begin with. Action flicks don’t often make a lot of sense. The revenge or villain motive is overused – in almost all of them. I give credit to O&K for cramming in good character and emotional moments; there is much to criticize but also much to like in their writing.

I am not the best critic, but I’ve explained previously that the primary things I like in films are characters, acting, emotion, and people-driven plot elements. The spectacle, I can appreciate, the action, meh, the violence, yecchh. I think it might be interesting to see what O&K could do given 2 hours 30 minutes for a movie with the adjuration that they use at least 70 of those minutes for character-building, science fiction, philosophy, and emotional moments, but that’s not likely, alas, to happen in a big-budget Hollywood film. I’d sure like to see a TV version of AU Trek, with O&K contributing scripts, along with today’s wonderful SciFi writers, as in TOS days of yore.

194. Disinvited - November 4, 2013

# 141. Red Shirt Diaries – November 3, 2013

” there was no Internet back when Nick Meyers did those Trek movies.” – Red Shirt Diarie

No, but there were and are letters to the editors in magazines such as STARLOG and newsletters both paper and electronic.

STARLOG back issues were one of the first print publications archived on the internet via early OCR.

Here’s a letter from a randomly Googled issue from the era:

http://archive.org/stream/starlog_magazine-064/064_djvu.txt

”. . .As one of those who made The Wrath of
Khan’s debut such a smash success when it
opened, may I say that I agree with Mr. Kelley and
everyone else that this was the real return of Star
Trek, it was an enthralling story, complete with
heroism and unforgettable villainy in the form of
Ricardo Montalban. (He almost stole the show)!
Were it not for Spock’s “death” I would rejoice
fully over this film. But the fact that the producers
found his death “necessary” concerns me, and I
hope I am wrong about the story-line the pro-
posed series is evidently taking. A foregone con-
clusion is that the next film will be taken up with
The Search for Spock. Will that then be followed
by Kirk’s Revenge or maybe even the Return of
Khan?

Star Trek is too precious a commodity for such
sensationalism, and certainly we loyal devotees
deserve more. Will the Enterprise continue to go

“where no man has gone before” or where the
producers think the bucks are?” – Karen Murphy

But I am even more tickled to see this letter from an NBC writer:

“LEGACY OF EXCELLENCE

. . . Before the release of Star Trek II- The Wrath of
Khan an onslaught of supposedly “concerned”
fans were stirred into an uproar over reports of Mr .
Spock’s death in the film.

The actor who portrayed Spock, Leonard
Nimoy, was made the brunt of hostility that was in-
tended to pressure him into reversing a creative
decision he had no. control over.

Now the film has been seen, and the bygone
hysteria in retrospect seems both unfounded and
immature. That’s probably why it’s all been
forgotten.

Let me say this: I’d read a hundred times people
screaming SPOCK MUST NOT DIE, but not once
did I hear any of these people say LEONARD
NIMOY’S CAREER MUST LIVE!

I feel we all owe Star Trek, Gene Roddenberry
and Dorothy Fontana an immense thank you for
the character of Mr. Spock. For it is to Mr. Spock
that we owe our greatest debt: introducing us to
Leonard Nimoy.

Rarely has a more gifted, versatile, warm and
yes, “fascinating” personality become renowned
via mass media.

Anyone who has seen this man’s photographs or
read either his prose or poetry knows the Leonard
Nimoy I am describing.

Anyone who saw his electrifying performance in
Equus or his hypnotic one man show Vincent
understands the depth of the talent I’m writing of.

And anyone who has read or heard this actor’s
opinions, thoughts and observations through inter-
views should surely realize we’re in the reassuring
presence of a gentle and intelligent humanitarian.

If Leonard Nimoy chooses to play Mr. Spock
again, then fine. If he decides against it, then that’s
fine too.

But if he ever decided to give up acting, that
would be a tragedy.

It’s my hope that the special genius of Leonard
Nimoy which made Spock such a real and tangible

personality goes on to create other characters for us
to care about just as much.

For whether he’s the cameleon of Mission: Im-
possible, the sinister psychiatrist of Invasion of the
Body Snatchers, the sympathetic husband in
Golda, the treacherous diplomat of Marco Polo or
just doing a commercial or narration spot,
Leonard Nimoy consistently gives us a legacy of
perfection and excellence.

Science fiction is proud of Leonard Nimoy, so is
the acting profession which he replenishes through
his constant support of the arts.

If all this sounds like I’ve been inspired in my life
by Leonard Nimoy, then so it should. His work did
inspire me to pursue and achieve a career in the
entertainment industry.

It’s my hope that others who love his work
follow his example of dedication and hard work to
achieve their varied goals as well (show business or
not).

And if what I’ve said sounded like I’ve been
defending Leonard Nimoy, I haven’t. He doesn’t
need defending. Why? Because all Leonard Nimoy
owes us no matter what he’s doing is a good perfor-
mance.

It’s a certainty he’ll never be in debt in that
department.

Leonard Nimoy. . .I celebrate your talent. . .
and may you and your career truly LIVE LONG
AND PROSPER!” – Alan Spencer, Writer/Co-producer, NBC-TV

195. I am to Smurfy - November 4, 2013

Luckily none of you are the ones who make the business decisions
Cornish is a fine director and if he says yes, he will do a good job on Star Trek XIII

196. I am to Smurfy - November 4, 2013

Smike, you know not what you speak
First off Stuart Baird and Joe Cornish’s film backgrounds are nothing alike.

Next
Stuart is the first to say he failed at making a Trek film cause HE DIDN’T UNDERSTAND the characters and story. Joe is a Trek fan , and as he siad when he turned it down earlier this year “he grew up on Trek”

Finally Joe has not even said yes yet, he could and probably will turn it down again(as he did earlier this year)

But don’t be so quick to write him off, the guy is a talented director and writer.

197. I am to Smurfy - November 4, 2013

I kind of chuckle when I hear people say” I want to see Spileberg direct”
Spielberg will never direct a Trek film.

He creates new Franchises, he doesnt step into exsisting ones.
The only exisisting film series he has ever wanted to direct was Bond, and he was shot down about that when he expressed interest in doing one years ago.

198. Matt Wright - November 4, 2013

Looks like we need a time out here folks…

199. Matt Wright - November 5, 2013

Open again, behave yourselves everybody.

200. Disinvited - November 5, 2013

#187. dswynne – November 4, 2013

You can catch Frake’s latest work on the week of Nov. 19th when his direction of the episode of DISNEY/MARVEL’S AGENTS OF S.H.I.E.L.D. that dovetails with the coming THOR flick airs.

201. Disinvited - November 5, 2013

Not to make too much about it because it seems apparent which one is meant but there’s a big difference between the Capitalized and non-capitalized forms of the word: catholic.

202. bassmaster22 - November 5, 2013

The trifecta is complete. Two not so good writers and a small name director. Fifty years of trek and it comes down to this. What an insult.

This project should be red lit. Put the brakes on it. I’d rather see nothing at 50 years than what I suspect is coming.

But since we absolutely must have a 50th anniversary film, it will be rushed and the final result will show. And the worst part is, we’ll be celebrating the anniversary with a non-cannon reboot series. Amazing to think so many people are ok with that considering this “universe” is really only a few years old.

Back to cannon, folks.

203. Keachick - November 5, 2013

#202 – Please take the big gun away – a caNNon is a very big gun, where canon means something quite different. Spelling is everything, or it used to be, and for good reason.

I do not see why the next movie should be a rushed job, especially if full production begins next Summer (your May/June/July months) of 2014. Even if principle photography begins in September or thereabouts of next year, they will still have a year, maybe more, to do post-production etc before the hoped for release date of late 2015, or sometime in 2016 (Star Trek’s 50th Anniversary year).

The Star Trek 3 IMDb homepage has Joe Cornish as the name director, but, of course, that could change. Also the status is put at the Pitch stage, presumably meaning that the writing/producing team are pitching their ideas for the next movie to Paramount and investors. This gives me cause to think that Orci and co. already have a story in mind.

204. T'Cal - November 5, 2013

Get Frakes back in the director’s chair! He shone with First Contact and Insurrection. For those who did not like the latter, it wasn’t poor direction that this movie “suffered” from. The writing was more TV-like than big film.

205. dmduncan - November 5, 2013

Joe Cornish already turned down an offer to direct Trek? We know this how?

206. Marja - November 5, 2013

197 Smurfy, I’ve made my comments about Spielberg in a spirit of wishfulness/hope that Trek, on its “Fiftieth,” could be highly honored; that Spielberg is one of the most highly respected directors in Hollywood, and he might do it in a spirit of supporting SciFi and a spirit of fun involvement with a long-lived franchise. Nothing more. I don’t really expect that it would happen, but a girl can dream. And what a great investment for Paramount to make :-)

201 Disinvited and 203 Keachick, Thank you so much for saying what I’ve wanted to say for so long. I’m an editor because I’m a “grammar ‘Nazi,’ though I often express myself much more casually here and in e-mail.

I also get heartburn when people mix up phenomena [plural] and phenomenon [singular] — I’ve even heard journalists and other “word professionals” use this, to my everlasting frustration — but etymologists say “the language is changing,” and not, IMHO, necessarily for the better. CANNON is my big bugaboo here and in conversations with fan writers.

202 bassmaster, We can choose to be insulted, or we can choose, in Trek spirit, to give the unknown a chance. We don’t yet know if Orci&Kurtzman will be successful in working more SciFi into the script, I think O&K may draw up a story that makes a little more “sense” if Orci’s taken on the comments here and in public criticism. Remember many of us are quite happy — if not completely thrilled — with the new movies.

Matt Wright, THANK YOU for monitoring the spirit of the debates here and sometimes closing a thread temporarily to ensure that people cool off. It gets a bit too ugly in here at times, doesn’t it.

207. Marja - November 5, 2013

By the way, I wouldn’t be chagrined at all if Cornish gets the job. As others have pointed out, he’ll be advised by more experienced folk [namely JJ Abrams, et. al.], he has a great sense of humor, being new, he is likely to be supportive of the actors, and he knows Trek.

I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing to hire someone who’s a fan of Trek, as long as they can restrain certain “fanboy” impulses.

208. Ahmed - November 5, 2013

@ 205. dmduncan – November 5, 2013

“Joe Cornish already turned down an offer to direct Trek? We know this how?”

From Variety report:

“No formal offer has been made and Cornish could pass on the project a second time. He last turned down the sci-fi tentpole in May.”

http://variety.com/2013/film/news/joe-cornish-star-trek-3-1200775433/

209. dmduncan - November 5, 2013

208. Ahmed – November 5, 2013

Well what exactly did he turn down if the offer was not formal? Saying no to a hypothetical is not saying no to an actual offer.

But I think it’s a good idea to go with someone fresh. If not Cornish then someone who’s that new.

210. Ahmed - November 5, 2013

@ 209. dmduncan – November 5, 2013

“Well what exactly did he turn down if the offer was not formal? Saying no to a hypothetical is not saying no to an actual offer.”

The current offer is not formal yet, but it looks like he was asked back in May & he said no.

211. dmduncan - November 5, 2013

Look, unless someone comes back to you with paperwork to sign then you ought to regard it as them blowing smoke up your a**, especially in Hollywood. So if they made a kind of BS “offer” that wasn’t really an offer, sort of written in the air and he didn’t like the idea, then there probably wasn’t a whole lot going into his rejection either.

212. Phil - November 5, 2013

A question along the lines of ‘if you are available, would you be interested in directing’ would be a casual yes, no, or maybe. Least we forget that JJ turned down Disney initially, it’s very a possible that an earlier no is now a ‘yes, I’m interested’.

Agree with dmd, though, if it’s nothing but chatter over cocktails there isn’t much going on at the moment. Paramount obviously isn’t in a hurry at this point….

213. Jack - November 5, 2013

“bassmaster22 – November 5, 2013
The trifecta is complete. Two not so good writers and a small name director. Fifty years of trek and it comes down to this. What an insult.”

Enough of this nonsense. He’s a rising star and his one movie was a critical hit.

These people here talking about Spielberg or Meyer (who’d directed one movie and was certainly a small name director when he directed TWOK, and still is, outside Trekdom) for this thing apparently haven’t been to a movie in 15 years.

Many of the other names being mentioned by fans have only had one or two studio films themselves.

I had beefs about the two scripts, but they’re not bad movies — and they’re certainly higher quality, all around, than any TV Trek we’ve ever seen. And they’re absolutely Star Trek, down to their very cores, problems aside.

Watch the first movie again — Abrams captures Trek (and personally, I like the Enterprise depicted in that first movie better, it looks both more expansive (oddly) and more TOS-like…

if your only real contributions to discussions about a movie are “it was sacrilege to film it in a brewery” and “JJ loves Star Wars and therefore can’t direct Star Trek,” well then you are an assh**e.

And this “they don’t care about Trek” nonsense is just that — they just spent $190+ million on a (hit) sequel and they’re talking about another, right away, with names of some of the most sought-after, interesting directors in Hollywood. They f**king care about Trek.

214. dmduncan - November 5, 2013

212. Phil – November 5, 2013

Right. Personally I think Hollywood producers don’t mean what they say until they give you paperwork to sign. It’s a different planet out there.

BUT if—IF—it’s true that his first reaction was to turn it down instead of to jump at the chance, then I think he’s a man of a certain good quality not to leap at such a piece of big bait.

I think I’m going to watch Attack the Block tonight. It looks good. It’s always fun to see what people can do with limited funds. Tells you how smartly they approach what they do, and from the looks of it, Cornish looks sharp.

215. I am not Herbert - November 5, 2013

BobOrci: My apologies, if I am mistaken on specifics re: religious affiliation

I regret the need to bring it up, but I DO think religion is RELEVANT…

nothing personal…

216. dmduncan - November 5, 2013

It would be great if Cornish turned out to be another Hitchcock. CGI is making people so unimaginative regarding cinematic technique itself. No understanding of psychology, so little subtlety.

217. dmduncan - November 5, 2013

215. I am not Herbert – November 5, 2013

Don’t make assumptions about people’s religious or spiritual views based on their love of Star Trek OR based on what you think and believe logic and “the evidence” entitles them to have.

218. boborci - November 5, 2013

215 how does the fact that I was raised existentialist factor in?

219. Red Dead Ryan - November 5, 2013

I am not Herbert,

ENOUGH! Knock it off with the troll-and-bait tactics. You’re not going to get away with hijacking this thread.

220. Matt Wright - November 5, 2013

I am not Herbert – watch it, you’re wading back into the deep end there…
Let’s move along please…

221. Basement Blogger - November 5, 2013

@ 206

Marja, “Smurfy” likes to look down on people knd sow discord.

I agree with you about Spielberg. We both know it’s wishful thinking but it’s all about thinking big. By the way, he’s free after dropping out of American Sniper. And let’s defend Star Trek. Smurfy may think Star Trek isn’t big enough for Spielberg not like Bond but to us Trekkers, it’s the greatest science fiction franchise in the history of mankind. Okay, a little hyperbole.

But we can look at the greatest Star Trek made and it stands up to any of the classic science fiction. “The City on the Edge of Forever.” “The Doomsday Machine.” “The Trouble with Tribbles.” “The Best of Both Worlds.” And on and on.

The fiftieth anniversary needs to be special. This is no time for Paramount to be cheap. Disney thought big with Abrams. Why can’t Paramount? A power hitting director would be a sign that Paramount is grateful to the fans.

222. I am not Herbert - November 5, 2013

well, existentialism is a philosophy of thought, that may or may not apply to religion / spirituality…

…and my impression would be that it didn’t “stick” with you…

so i would say you are “playing with me”… ;-)

223. I am not Herbert - November 5, 2013

Matt: trying to wrap it up, but don’t want to ignore BobOrci… ;-)

224. Ahmed - November 5, 2013

@222. I am not Herbert

Seriously dude, time to move on. Lets focus on Star Trek, please.

225. dswynne1 - November 5, 2013

@200 (Disinvited: Thanks for the info!

@202 (bassmaster22): If you’re going to be a defeatist, then stop being a fan of “Star Trek”. We Trekkies/Trekkers/whatever are optimistic for a reason, and just because one version of ‘Trek is not your liking, that doesn’t give you the right to rain on everyone’s parade. The franchise IS almost fifty years old, and it will out last ALL of us with different iterations of ‘Trek. That’s why I don’t mind Bad Robot’s interpretation of ‘Trek because it is one of many. IDIC, anyone?

@204 (T’Cal): My thoughts exactly! At least, make Frakes unit director as a stepping stone towards the “big chair”.

@206 (Marja): Personally, I don’t think Spielberg would be a good fit for the job as a director, since he would have to tailor his directing style to the needs of the franchise (see: “A.I.”). I’d sooner have Ridley Scott on as director because of his experience in the sci-fi genre. Again, if I had a choice, Jonathan Frakes would be the director of choice because he is so familiar with the franchise, especially considering that the next film will be part of the fiftieth anniversary celebration . Well, either him or LaVar Burton…

@215 (I am not Herbert): You should look into psychiatric help, if you’re this obsessed over something that nobody else on this thread cares about. Seriously.

@218 (boborci): I really hope that you will write a script that can be original while honoring the milestone that the “Star Trek” franchise will reach in the next few years. “Skyfall” managed to touch upon the essence of what makes James Bond, well, James Bond. Hopefully, you’ll do the same with James Kirk, and that Kirk, when all has been said and done, will be the Captain Kirk that we fans know and love.

226. I am not Herbert - November 5, 2013

that’s me: caring about things that no one (here) cares about… ;-)

sorry for dialoging w/ boborci… =(

227. I am not Herbert - November 5, 2013

…anyway, i’m glad to be the one who “trolled” boborci back to trekmovie! =D

WELCOME BACK, BOB! =D

228. MJ -- THE GRAND RETURN !!! - November 5, 2013

Sheesh, I am not Herbert is still f’ing around here???

Really???

229. boborci - November 5, 2013

222. what evidence might you have that it didn’t stick, cuz it did. I am.

230. Ahmed - November 5, 2013

An article about Cornish:

===============================

Star Trek: Would Joe Cornish Be An Upgrade Over JJ Abrams?

“On the one hand, it’s easy to see why certain fans might be really nervous about this potential hiring. Attack The Block is a pretty damn good movie, but putting together a $15 million science fiction film in the United Kingdom does not require the same skills as making a $200 million event film extravaganza financed by big studio money with big studio checks. The latter requires an army of interpersonal skills and an ability to know when to compromise and when to stand firm. Maybe Cornish has those skills. Maybe he doesn’t. In addition, it would be nice to have someone with a little more actual film experience. Hollywood history is filled with people who used up every single good idea they had on their breakout movie and never accomplished anything more.

On the other hand, however, there’s something ballsy and inspiring about going from someone with an extremely studio-friendly perspective (Abrams) to someone who is a bit more of a wild card (Cornish). Yes, as Marvel has proven you want some continuity, but now and again, you also need some fresh blood. You need someone with new ideas that might give Orci and Kurtzman some different notes or even –gasp- campaign for someone else to help write the film.”

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Star-Trek-Would-Joe-Cornish-An-Upgrade-Over-JJ-Abrams-40132.html

231. The Keeper - November 5, 2013

As I maintain, doesn’t matter “who” directs, if Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci (AKA the Bozo Brothers) are writing this thing we are doomed for more mindless mayhem un-need story telling and juvenal brain power with a healthy dose of F.U. to the fans that are still the most important audience that keeps the franchise alive.
And I guess we’ll see the third installment of repeats seen in the last film.
Wondering if that’s their way of honoring the fact that Star Trek TOS gain popularity in repeats….

232. Red Dead Ryan - November 5, 2013

#230.

That was uncalled for. There was no need to call Bob and Alex “bozos”.

233. I am not Herbert - November 5, 2013

boborci: re: evidence… your(?) writing seems to show that you don’t take “science fiction” seriously, that you see it as FANTASY in space.

someone who was a serious philosophical thinker would be much more open to, not to mention optimistic about, the possibilities (inherent in science fiction)

your(?) writing is an insult to science fiction, if indeed that is what is to be taken as… sorry…

it seems to show a colloquial, (religious) point of view… (?)

BUT: it works as brainless action summer popcorn movie (shrug)

234. I am not Herbert - November 5, 2013

Marvel kicks ass because the do it with realism! =D

NuTrek is ridiculously fake! =(

235. The Keeper - November 5, 2013

LOL
Really? Calling them Bozo’s is nothing compared to what they have been calling the fans.
Just remember to give yourself a nice novocain enema before entering the theater to watch Star Trek III

Hey maybe all the fans can get a group rate on enema bottles….

236. boborci - November 5, 2013

232. I respect your minority opinion. Thanks for opining:)

237. I am not Herbert - November 5, 2013

thanks for being so coy… ;-)

238. crazydaystrom - November 5, 2013

And we’re off!

239. Keachick - November 5, 2013

I am not Herbert cannot be taken seriously…Holy moly.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/existentialism

I think I am not Herbert is somewhat confused.

240. Basement Blogger - November 5, 2013

@ 230 234, 232

The Keeper,

That was civil. It’s easy for you to sit behind a keyboard and insult people anonymously. Try attaching your name to it big guy unless you’re here to sow discord. Then you should take the trolling act somewhere else. Bob Orci has been kind enough to spend time with us. I’ve been here since early 2010 and Bob’s been cordial, funny and patient for putting up with some of the angry, unfriendly people around here. Bob’s lost it a couple of times but I can’t blame him. I welcome his comments.

I’m going to practice what I preach. My real name is Bernie Wong. Your turn. Put your name next to those insults.

Second, Keeper, and Herbert, have you guys seen Star Trek Into Darkness? From the way I read your comments, you make it sound like Flash Gordon. Maybe you fell asleep during the movie. Here’ a recap of the themes in the movie.

The Prime Directive
The War on Terror
Life and Death
The militarization of Starfleet versus space exploration
Revenge
Friendship

I’ve criticized Star Trek 2009. Star Trek Into Darkness is not a perfect film but Star Trek Into Darkness was a move in the right direction. I applaud it for being entertaining and smart.

241. Keachick - November 5, 2013

Re: Bob Orci at #68 on other thread where he writes that in a parallel universe he was raised Catholic – I knew it!…LOL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_existentialism

Notions of what might be described existentalist philosophy goes back to Buddhist teaching, if not further back. Its fundamental tenet is that we, as individual human beings, have the capacity to make our own choices and need to be aware of the various consequences that making certain choices as opposed to others can bring about, both small and large.

Buddhist/Hindus refer to Karma
Christ talked *reaping what you sow, so you need to think about what you sow – “Those who live by the sword, die by the sword” etc etc.

Ultimately, it is about our understanding and ability to use good common sense and that can vary.

*It must be a kind of Freudian slip when I almost write “we sow what we reap” or is it?

The existence of gods or one God (creator of all) does not come into it. That’s another debate.

In many ways, I would say that, given what has been shown in these first two Star Treks, Bob Orci does appear to “stick” with it.

242. Keachick - November 5, 2013

Ahmed – re my comment about using the term “my friend” in a (slightly) adversial context. No, it was not just directed at you. I have read other posters do the same in the past. It was a general observation and comment.

243. Keachick - November 5, 2013

Edit: It seems to be my day of making silly snaffus etc – Ugh/Doh. The word is meant to read “adversarial”.

244. MJB - November 5, 2013

235. boborci
As a database designer/administrator, my boss taught me that will never achieve 100% satisfied users of the database. While I tried to prove him wrong, I found that 5 -10% of the users always complained about something – even after addressing all their complaints. It was in their DNA. I think you are going through something similar with your job (at least the Trek portion). Anyway, I know you and Alex are still going to try your best to win over those people with a killer 50th anniversary Trek movie.

245. Marja - November 5, 2013

Hi Bob O, nice to see you around : )

246. Ahmed - November 5, 2013

@ 240. Keachick – November 5, 2013

“Ahmed – re my comment about using the term “my friend” in a (slightly) adversial context. No, it was not just directed at you. I have read other posters do the same in the past. It was a general observation and comment.”

OK,

But just to be clear about my own comment, I do consider MJ a friend. True we disagree on some stuff & sometime we get into heated arguments but I do like the guy, that why I call him my friend.

247. Bill Peters - November 5, 2013

I think we need to give Bob Orci Respect, he has given us two very popular Star Trek Films and also has given us good story lines in those films, If you think you can write a better Trek Film, Please Pich it to Paramount, and see where it goes.

Bob I have Every Confidence you will give us a great 3rd new Star Trek Film, and I hope you can give us more of those great Easter Eggs that hint back at Trek’s past with in a new story :)

248. boborci - November 5, 2013

242 MJB.

No kidding, huh? Glad statistics give us some respite;) THanks

249. Red Shirt Diaries - November 5, 2013

I am not Herbert,

Enough already. Drop it now, please.

250. Jonboc - November 5, 2013

Always good to see you around these parts Bob Orci. Loving Sleepy Hollow, keep up the good work, good stuff!

251. boborci - November 5, 2013

you, too, JonBoc

252. Silvereyes - November 5, 2013

Wow, some people here really don’t get that having a different opinion doesn’t make the other guy wrong. Tastes differ, deal with it and stop being insulting. Self-righteousness is a direct result of ignorance.

Whether you like the writing of STID or not doesn’t qualify you to criticize a professional writer. Get out of your mother’s basement.

253. Chuck - November 5, 2013

Bob -

Thank you for saving Star Trek.

Chuck

254. Diskhanbobulated - November 5, 2013

189. Marja

Why does disagreement = “phobia” or “hate”? A phobia is a FEAR. I highly doubt Card or anyone else fears anyone. “Homophobia” and “hate” get slung around FAR too much. Does your disagreement with Card mean that you HATE and fear the guy, then? #facepalm

255. MJ -- THE GRAND RETURN !!! - November 5, 2013

Chuck -

That you for cancelling Chuck.

256. Disinvited - November 5, 2013

#225. dswynne1 – November 5, 2013

You are welcome. BTW the episode is meant to be seen AFTER the movie so I assume watching it before might spoil some things for those concerned about such things.

257. Basement Blogger - November 6, 2013

Hey Bob Orci,

Maybe it’s time to again watch this hilarious piece by Bill Maher on the hateful, angry Internet poster.

Courtesy of Mediaite and HBO.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/maher-goes-off-on-twitter-hate-who-wastes-their-time-telling-cheesecake-factory-to-fck-off/

258. Stephan - November 6, 2013

@boborci:

To get back to the topic: What do you think about Joe Cornish and the idea of him directing trek. ;) And who would you like most to direct trek, except Abrams of course. ;)

259. Ralph Pinheiro - November 6, 2013

Mr. Bob Orci,

STID was a good film. I liked very much, my friends no-trekkers liked too.

But as Karl Urban said: “…I really think that what we should do from here, in my personal opinion, is strive to be original. Strive to be something different and new…”.

Thanks.

260. Damian - November 6, 2013

252–That seems to be some people’s biggest problems. At the end of the day, we all like and dislike different things.

It’s fine to critique a product. If there are things someone doesn’t like about Star Trek (2009) or STID, that’s fine. I love discussing Star Trek. I loved STID, but I too found elements that I didn’t like so much. I thought the magic blood was over the top, but inevitably there are those out there that might have thought that was genius.

I think people have to remember not to cross the line to criticizing other fans just because they did like something. I think too, people should be careful about criticizing the people behind the films too. That’s a harder line because if you’re critiquing the story, you are in a way criticiquing guys like Bob Orci, since he helped write it. But I think as long as someone is respectful about it, it’s fine.

Just remember, it’s entertainment. Whether the team wrote a good movie or not, the world is not going to end. It’s not like someone made a mistake that caused millions of deaths or anything.

261. Damian - November 6, 2013

259–Agree. I would love the next film to be wholly original, without a strong revenge plot. I would love to see a movie without a villain altogether, but if they must have a villain, leave the revenge subplot on Earth. I suspect they are leaning on a Klingon War (based on some of the buildup in STID). I actually would rather not have any Klingons involved at all.

One of the reasons I keep throwing the novel “Chain of Attack” out there is that the Enterprise is hurled to another galaxy. That ensures completely original planets and aliens. No Earth, no Klingons or Romulans. And the Enterprise is completely alone.

262. The Keeper - November 6, 2013

240. Basement Blogger

Much like yourself but opposite.
However you are incorrect. I have seen STID and bought the DVD.
I still love this group of fine young actors and even JJ’s direction.

The story line as even noted by most critics who liked the film was at best anti awe inspiring.
There’s is a complete lack of fate of originality going on here that is much more profound then mere plagiarizing previous films and trying to pass that off as progressive and logical direction.

But then again I suspect the depths of your insight to be as equally shallow as these Bozo writers that shrug off bad critics and take credit for every other redeeming aspect of the film thru no fault of their limited writing abilities.

263. JR - November 6, 2013

Others have said it and so will I…. Trek needs ‘new blood’ in the ‘new timeline’ in order to live long and prosper. It needs new writers, directors, and visionaries – visionaries that understand the very roots of trek and the original successive ‘next generations’. This new trek gives ‘nods’ to the treks of the past, but does not respect continuities between both timelines.

264. Gary 8.5 - November 6, 2013

262 What did you mean by ” Fate of originality”?
No crticism just curious.

265. SirBroiler - November 6, 2013

You may laugh, or even gag, but Spielberg would be a perfect choice to take the big chair for this movie.

Spielberg is a master at directing actors and creating memorable and meaningful performances – even in the midst of effect-heavy films. I’m not suggesting he’s directed some clunkers from the story standpoint – but even a jumbled mess like ‘War of The Worlds’ was filled with some brilliant performances. Give him a strong, poignant and meaningful Star Trek script worthy of the Anniversary – he’ll handle the rest.

I would wager that he has deep respect and reverence for the Star Trek legacy. I’m not talking canon here. I’m talking fifty years of social and cultural significance. I don’t think he would approach Star Trek as another big budget sci-fi franchise.

Imagine battle scenes of a Klingon or Romulan war on par with the opening of ‘Saving Private Ryan’ – Has there ever been another major battle scene where you cared more about the fate of countless nameless characters. That’s the brilliance of Steven Spielberg. He can evoke intimate emotion even when the scope of a scene is massive.

At the end of the day, any director is slave to the script – and Spielberg is no exception. (Crystal Skull anyone?) Sorry boborci, but you’ve had two chances and the last go was an ultimate fail. For God’s sake, It’s the 50th anniversary Paramount! Bring in some big guns to pen the ultimate Star Trek script (Rick Jaffa and Amanda Silver anyone? With some consultation from Many Coto?) So good that Speilberg couldn’t refuse. His legacy is more than secure and he has absolutely nothing to lose.

I know – it will never happen.

266. Mad Mann - November 6, 2013

Is anyone else bothered by that “Date a Trekkie” banner ad? She really looks like a poser with that incorrect Vulcan salute. The thumb is supposed to stick out!

Anyway, I don’t get why they are having so much trouble getting a director for this. I would think that there are 100s of folks chomping at the bit to direct this thing, hell I’d do it!

267. dswynne1 - November 6, 2013

Apparently, Joe Cornish IS a “Trekkie”:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3HL8XVMih8

Take it as you will.

268. dswynne1 - November 6, 2013

@266 (Mad Mann): Not me. I’m just surprise that it took this long for someone to develop a dating website for Trekkies. And if it makes this site cheaper to administer, by posting advertisements here, I’m fine with that. Besides, outside of conventions, where else can I meet someone with the same passion for ‘Trek?

269. Ahmed - November 6, 2013

Hey dswynne1, I just read your comment,

“You know, I WAS hoping that I could get some real news from this site without the trolls (“I AM NOT HERBERT”), the jerks (“Ahmed”) and the haters (“Cygnus X-1″) popping in to spout nonsense that takes away from the actual topic. Silly me…”

You must be real dumb to suggest that I & Cygnus X-1 are the ones who took the discussion away from the real topic.

Go back & read the comments. Most of us were having civil discussion about this new guy, Cornish, until K-7 came up with his nonsense talk about blaming us for the choice.

Stop being a dumba** & try to actually read the whole thread becoming accusing people.

270. Ahmed - November 6, 2013

I meant, before accusing, not becoming

271. Marcucs - November 6, 2013

@ The Religious & Non-Religious Commentators,

Without the existence of philosophy, the psychological drive towards science would not happen. “What if..?” is a philosophical statement. Religion and science attempt to answer the same “what if…?” questions. How are we made? Who are we? Where did we come from? Where are we going?

Philosophy = Curiosity.

…and, that is why universities teach differently than community colleges and high schools. When people learn math and science in high school and community college, the only thing that is required of students is the regurgitation of information. Once you enter into a four year university, you are expected to analytically examine information and turn it into a ‘theory’. When it comes to certain scientific and mathematical theories, the reality is that ‘we have faith that they are accurate’. We put “faith” and “trust” in the accuracy of the information we are given.

While talking to a professor in mathematics, I asked the question, “Why does moving the decimal point two places to the right work?” His response, “We do not understand why. We just have faith that it works.”

“Star Trek” is one massive philosophical examination of a ‘theory’. Gene Roddenberry’s theory is not an absolute; thus, the future ahead of us is not written by one man or women. Even though Roddenberry’s philosophies are optimistically awesome, the reality is that they do not necessarily stand apart from other theories. I can name several other science-fiction writers, philosophers, scientists, and literary writers that have better visions of the future.

“Star Trek” is a form of science-’fiction’; thus, the fictional aspects of the franchise separate it from reality.

272. Marcus (Marcucs: Misspelled) - November 6, 2013

Sorry. I misspelled my name. grrr…

273. The Keeper - November 6, 2013

@ 264

This means I have no fate that these writers can be original in any way out side the limited parameters of using only villainous antagonist as the driving force behind all that they do.
I can not or do not expect them to be able to devise a script using exploration and the adventure of discovery that can both stimulate the visual senses (hence filling the studio’s ideal of a summer pop corn movie) and broaden our minds with the wonder of not only space and the final frontier but the human condition and growth of characters.

I actually was one of the few who liked ST2009. I had no problem with the laughable lens flare debate and was all for and still for calling J.J. Abrams the prefect director for Star Trek.
Since J.J. is director and a person not all well versed in Trek, so it falls on the writers shoulders to create a story that may contain unthinkable plot twist which I have no problem with, but please dudes, give us an original untold story. Not a mismash of things and suggestive materials taken from TOS or the 2009 film.

You set a universe up to be new bold and different, so do it.
Don’t prance around giving out crap.

These Bozo writers give the impression they shot their load with the first film and are now just shooting blanks…hell it’s not even a good after glow

274. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

BobOrci: ok, so saying that you are an “existentialist” really tells us nothing about your view of religion… (it’s a cop-out, as usual)

are you a nihilist, rather than religious? that might also explain what i sense in your version of (harrumph) “science fiction”…

275. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

he means faith, not fate (obviously)

276. dmduncan - November 6, 2013

271. I am not Herbert – November 6, 2013

You sound like an Ayn Rand cultist.

277. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

Ayn Rand? WOW! =D

no. I am a “spiritual but not religious” liberal democrat. =)

pretty much the exact opposite… ;-)

LL&P

278. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

…but let’s not compound religion with politics, ok? thanks! =)

279. LogicalLeopard - November 6, 2013

If you’re still around boborci, please settle the biggest question anyone could have about a forthcoming movie: Will we see a “Spock Helmet” in the new film? Maybe it doesn’ have to have his name on it…..but a Spock Helmet at this point should be considered an integral part of any storyline you consider….

280. dmduncan - November 6, 2013

274. I am not Herbert – November 6, 2013

Before I posted that comment, I correctly calculated the odds that you were actually an Ayn Rand cultist as very low, and that you would respond by denying any such affiliation. But I said it anyway. Why do you think I did that? I wasn’t lying or trolling when I said you sound like one to me.

281. spud69 - November 6, 2013

I’ve been a big fan of Joe since the 1990s, his TV shows on Channel 4 from back then are GOLD! I hope he does direct Star Trek 3.

282. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

yes, joe would be great! …but it’ll never happen.

if he does do it… I PITY THE FOOL! ;-)

283. Mad Mann - November 6, 2013

@ 268. dswynne1

The incorrect Vulcan salute bothered me, not the concept of the Trekkie dating site.

I would think that if you are going to advertise a website for Trekkies, at least get the most famous salute of all science fiction correct.

284. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

…the hotter the girl, the more allowance i give on the vulcan salute… ;-)

i judge: within tolerance ;-)

285. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

…now the spock-looking dude kinda creeped me out a little… heh! =D

286. Stephan - November 6, 2013

I am not Herbert:
Back again with pigeonholing?

So let’s see: In which category can we squeeze boborci today to deduce that he cannot write… Wow, with this energy you certainly could do something useful instead of this.

287. Dave H - November 6, 2013

“I am not Herbert ”

No, but your are an insufferable troll who baits people and who likes to hear himself “talking”

288. Who cares - November 6, 2013

@Boborci. Hey Bob, if you are still around I just wanted to tell you that I am really enjoying Sleepy Hollow, its been quite good so far, but, as a descendant of Benedict Arnold I have to admit to a bit of nervousness about what his role will have been in the secret war of the show, but I am very curious to see it. Thanks for creating this show.

289. Marja - November 6, 2013

254 Diskhan, “Homophobia” is a fear of homosexuality. Often it is related to the fear that oneself is homosexually inclined.

As for hate, homophobics excuse and/or ignore the hatred some people exhibit toward homosexuals. Card himself has been mighty, mighty coy about expressing his dislike, but it’s pretty clear. I don’t fear and hate Card, but I fear and hate what his personal views can lead to, just as I fear and hate the “visions” put forth by the minister who maintains “God Hates Fags.” You see, the excuses people make for homophobia are hateful, because of their effect on society.

290. Spock's Bangs - November 6, 2013

Like McCoy told the leader of the Capellans, in the episode Friday’s Child…. “…As for what I Am Not Herbert says…we do not hear his words.”

291. Marja - November 6, 2013

261 Damian, “I would love the next film to be wholly original, without a strong revenge plot. I would love to see a movie without a villain altogether, but if they must have a villain, leave the revenge subplot on Earth. I suspect they are leaning on a Klingon War (based on some of the buildup in STID). I actually would rather not have any Klingons involved at all.”

RIGHT ON, RIGHT ON, RIGHT ON! I don’t necessarily agree with the “Chain of Attack” idea though. Personally I’d like to see an uncomfortable encounter with the Romulans a la “Balance of Terror,” but Orci’s view of Romulans as really inimical [expressed in the comics] will not show them to be as noble as the Romulan commander in “BOT.”

292. Marja - November 6, 2013

26- Keeper, “I suspect the depths of your insight to be as equally shallow as these Bozo writers that shrug off bad critics and take credit for every other redeeming aspect of the film thru no fault of their limited writing abilities.”

Wow, and what about your own vaunted insight? It seems to be quite shallow too. And it relies on a lot of insulting rhetoric.

293. Ahmed - November 6, 2013

I watched “Attack the Block” last night. It was fun movie, reminded me of movies that were made in the 1980s. The movie overall manage to balance between action & humor with little bit of social commentary.
And the kids’ acting was good, their accents however was hard to understand sometime :)

I can see now why Bob & others might want Cornish to direct the next one.

294. Marja - November 6, 2013

Above was directed to Keeper at 262.

As Damian said at 260, “I think people have to remember not to cross the line to criticizing other fans just because they did like something. I think too, people should be careful about criticizing the people behind the films too. That’s a harder line because if you’re critiquing the story, you are in a way criticiquing guys like Bob Orci, since he helped write it. But I think as long as someone is respectful about it, it’s fine.”

So please be respectful of others, if not for their works. Stop being insulting please.

295. Marja - November 6, 2013

270 Keeper, “I can not or do not expect them to be able to devise a script using exploration and the adventure of discovery that can both stimulate the visual senses (hence filling the studio’s ideal of a summer pop corn movie) and broaden our minds with the wonder of not only space and the final frontier but the human condition and growth of characters.”

The problem is, “summer popcorn movies” usually involve a Significant Threat, and usually it’s the wholesale destruction of Human society, which is just a really, really tired theme and has been exploited ad ini”movie”um. I’m pretty tired of it, personally, and had had my fill by about halfway through “Man of Steel.”

But this sort of thing is a big seller with the huge “overseas” [read far-Eastern] audiences. But as Spielberg has pointed out, without such huge audiences and their $$, Hollywood blockbusters are almost guaranteed to be financial failures.

296. Marja - November 6, 2013

Herbert,

Definition of “existentialist” – A philosophy that emphasizes the uniqueness and isolation of the individual experience in a hostile or indifferent universe, regards human existence as unexplainable, and stresses freedom of choice and responsibility for the consequences of one’s acts.

Can you please drop it now?

297. I am Roger Corby! - November 6, 2013

Wow Smike. In your defense of Roman Catholicism you became a bigot yourself. In case you hadn’t noticed, those “Calvinist Protestants of Puritan descendence” [sic] [also my forefathers] …

Invented the Ivy League and also the American liberal arts college which, since you are unacquainted with the details of history, carried a full science curriculum of the day.

(This remained the case until the German polytechnic system was imported to America with the likes of MIT… also in Yankee Puritan “Land of the Pilgrims’ Pride” New England.)

Furthermore, those Puritans were an offshoot of the Church of England and many, perhaps most Puritans never left the Anglican religion. The Church of England itself predates the Church of Rome’s missionary efforts by several hundred years. It’s affiliation with Rome, brought about by a secular military victory by a Roman-aligned power (Normandy), was sloughed off finally with the Reformation.

What most people outside Anglicanism do not know is that, when breaking from Rome, the Church of England specifically and publicly retained the substance of the ancient “catholic” (small “c” = “universal”) faith, rejecting only modern accretions such as the political powers collected by the Papacy including papal infallibility. Rome even recognized Anglican orders for a long time after the break of Henry VIII (who personally remained a declared Roman Catholic despite telling Rome to buzz off), rejecting them only in modern times over a — yes, you guessed it! — political argument with England.

Now … back to agreeing with Smike and his worthy argument:

I mention all this because it was the Mediaeval Church who instituted the University system that preserved Western Civilization after the fall of Rome. The Dark Ages were not so dark outside the Roman point-of-view and our great English universities such as Oxford and Cambridge owe themselves to the ancient Church.

Also, as a finally note, Sir Isaac Newton was a faithful Anglican. The church, its churchmen, the clergy and the faithful never saw a conflict between science and religion. The much storied Galileo episode had little to do with the facts of his theories, which no one seriously doubted. It had rather to do with the perception of … papal infallibility and subsequent confusion by the masses that would be inevitable should Rome reverse itself so suddenly.

As the descendant of Pilgrims, Puritans and aristocratic Huguenots … I cannot tell you how strange it is for me to defend the Church of Rome in public! But as a faithful Christian it is my duty to preserve and defend Truth wherever it be found. After all, as St John informs us, our Lord called himself “Truth” when he taught us, “For I am the Way, the Truth and the Life”.

Finally, I wish more Star Trek people would bother to learn about Christ not from stupid television programming or atheistic or anti-Christian propaganda but by reading the Holy Bible themselves, if only out of honest SCIENTIFIC curiosity about an important part of our history, as well as take time to learn the actual facts of the history of Christ’s church over the past 2,000 years. You will find that most of what you “know” is bunk unworthy of the scientific mind. The truth is not only mind blowing — it will set you free.

31. Smike – November 3, 2013

@23: Catholic dogma has accepted scientific progress a long time ago… The Bible being taken literally is rather an Evangelical, Creationist thing these days…so blame it on Calvinist Protestants of Puritan descendence.

298. Marja - November 6, 2013

Oh, by the way Herbert, here is a definition of “Liberal”

a. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
b. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.

Just thought you might benefit from a refresher.

A liberal myself.

299. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

thanks everyone for the nice information. =)

just because i question something, do not assume that i am intolerant.

that being said, I AM intolerant of a quasi-religious (or nihilist) viewpoint driving the creation of so-called Star Trek, IF indeed that is the case.

300. Keachick - November 6, 2013

The problem is that any organization, once it gets to a certain size, is liable to become corrupted. The Vatican Church is no different. The same happened within part of Buddhism as well. Unfortunately, all it usually takes are a few bad apples…:( A loss of trust and faith become the results, lines get drawn and dogmatisms etc ever more emphasized.

#291 – My problem is that I find much of Bible (Old and New Testaments) not a very pleasant book to read. It contains some quite insane/psychotic elements and I am talking about the behaviour of people like King David and others, let alone actions of those who were deemed to be anti-God, non-believers et al… Admitted, the New Testament reads quite a bit better, however some of the Old Testament is unreadable. I feel like I am reading a story/script to a horrible hard p*rn/snuff movie or similar. It is obscene..:( I am just not into that kind of thing.

301. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

Rose (Keachick): yes, over time religions were perverted into power structures… to keep the masses under control (asleep/enslaved)… =(

we don’t want that power perverting the high ideals of STAR TREK, do we?

too late? I hope NOT!

302. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

reply censored?

not cool… =(

303. Keachick - November 6, 2013

#293 – “Quasi-religious (or nihilist) viewpoint”? Buddhism is often seen as nihilistic by some… What are you on about, not that others here want to necessarily know? I, for one though, am curious. Having said that, you do need to tone down the comments that come across as being rather disrespectful and bitchy…just a thought.

304. dmduncan - November 6, 2013

293. I am not Herbert – November 6, 2013

You can be intolerant about whatever you want but that isn’t going to give you control over what happens. In Trek or anything else. Personally I’m not interested in uncovering Bob Orci’s religious or spiritual views, or what may be the lack thereof.

As the writer he’s entitled to express HIMself not YOURself, even if that means that he puts something in Star Trek that you or I personally don’t agree with (which is not to put you and I on the same side; the things you say make you seem simplistic and dogmatic in your thinking).

305. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

anyway… i agreed w/ keachick, and extended her point re: corruption… =(

306. dmduncan - November 6, 2013

293. Marja – November 6, 2013

What is progress?

Does “broadminded” mean including all points of view or some?

307. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

this is not an original property. boborci does not own it.

anyway, i get: you sycophants don’t want to hear it.

plus, i’m probly “whipping a dead horse” anyway… they’ve gotta finish the trilogy of summer popcorn movies… Trek for Dummies!

i guess i just can’t let Star Trek die, nay, be killed, quietly… (shrug)

308. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

what i am on about:

I strongly suspect that boborci’s world view is incompatible with REAL science fiction… that he regards it as fantasy… not as a possible / probable future / reality… in my mind, that makes him unfit (to create Star Trek)

I am very unhappy with the product, and i would prefer someone else put in charge of it.

309. Marja - November 6, 2013

299 duncan, I am willing to listen to any POV that is reasoned, cogent, and intelligent. Once I listen, of course, I’m free to disagree with any or all of it. Just as you are.

Progress is certainly defined differently depending on one’s POV, be it religious or political. As you read the word under a definition of Liberal, I would venture to say that that definition of progress would be in concert with mine.

300 Herbert, yes, and there are things YOU don’t want to hear either. Such as, your insulting others is not doing anything to get your point across. And I find your unwillingness to consider others’ views with some degree of politeness UN-liberal.

I like NuTrek; I have some problems with it, such as amped-up violence, and some of the magic blood/transwarp issues, so I’m not a sycophant. Nor am I a dummy.

We are not worthy of insults simply because we disagree with you. Take your trolling insults somewhere else.

310. Keachick - November 6, 2013

I am interested in what Bob Orci’s personal religious/spiritual beliefs might be but Bob Orci, nor anyone else, is not obliged to reveal anything about what he might or might not believe. I am not Herbert comes across as seeming to think that he has some sort of right to this personal information. He does not. None of us do. If Bob wishes to share, then fine. If not, that is fine as well.

Bob has actually shared a part of his philosophical viewpoint by pointing to Existentialist thought. It is a philosophy/thought shared by many and is not that new a notion either.

311. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

boborci sez: “I know ((I)) exist…” ;-)

312. Marja - November 6, 2013

302 Herbert, “I strongly suspect that boborci’s world view is incompatible with REAL science fiction… that he regards it as fantasy… not as a possible / probable future / reality… in my mind, that makes him unfit (to create Star Trek)”

There was plenty of “fantasy” in TOS. I give you “Turnabout Intruder,” “A Piece of the Action,” “Miri,” “Mudd’s Women,” and any of the time-travel episodes.

Remember that Orci & Kurtzman are writing for a big-budget movie, and not necessarily to our personal liking. Now, I’d prefer something like “Gravity” or “Brother from Another Planet” but I don’t think that’s going to happen, because “Gravity” didn’t generate the kind of huge profit number$ Paramount is looking for.

The Star Trek you [and possibly I] would like to see would be an ideal fit for television.

313. dmduncan - November 6, 2013

300. I am not Herbert – November 6, 2013

Sycophants? Sure, whatever explanatory short cut you want to take.

314. Keachick - November 6, 2013

I am not Herbert – Please – Do yourself and everyone else here a favour and go away. You are just ranting. You are not saying anything new or discussing anything within a sensible context.

Star Trek, taking place as it does/did and told as it was re TOS in the 23rd century, which is another 250/300 years from now, cannot really considered science-fiction anyway and I don’t know why people thought it could be. There are too many ideas fundamental to the series that were/are within the realm of science-fantasy – like warp drive or similar dealing with being able to traverse millions of miles of space in a relatively short time period or transporter technology and so on.

The fiction aspect has to do with characterization. Most of the main characters are humans, looking, sounding, thinking, feeling much as many of us do now, except that they are fictional. It is through these characters that we are able to relate to what is going on in the futuristic time and place.

315. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

Star Trek needs to be done with the respect that Marvel does with it’s properties… like the real writers and directors of SCI-FI do it!!

316. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

fantasy – in YOUR SMALL MIND

the truth of what WE can already do will ASTOUND you ;-)

317. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

yes marja, this applies to you too… ;-)

318. Ahmed - November 6, 2013

@306. Keachick

“Star Trek, taking place as it does/did and told as it was re TOS in the 23rd century, which is another 250/300 years from now, cannot really considered science-fiction anyway and I don’t know why people thought it could be. There are too many ideas fundamental to the series that were/are within the realm of science-fantasy – like warp drive or similar dealing with being able to traverse millions of miles of space in a relatively short time period or transporter technology and so on.”

You are dead wrong. Star Trek is science fiction, not science-fantasy. Many of the stuff that Star Trek predicted back in the 1960s are real now. Just google it & you will find lot of sources about that.

As for “warp drive or similar dealing with being able to traverse millions of miles of space in a relatively short time period or transporter technology”, again, google around & you will find lot of serious scientific researches are trying to create these futuristic technology. And I’m sure that people back in the 1800s thought that flying was fantasy & that talking to someone from the other side of the planet is pure fantasy !!

If you are looking for science-fantasy, just check Star Wars with their magical Jedi force.

You need to read some new Sci-Fi novels to catch up with new science fiction concepts that may sound like fantasy to you.

319. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

…actually, “the force” is real too! I kid you not!

(so is “the matrix”, in a way…) ;-)

320. dmduncan - November 6, 2013

311. I am not Herbert – November 6, 2013

…actually, “the force” is real too! I kid you not!

***

Oh? How do you know that?

321. Xplodin_Nacelle - November 6, 2013

Please Paramount – consider Nick Meyer for director. TWOK is, was, & always will be, the best movie of the franchise!!!

322. Ahmed - November 6, 2013

@ 312. dmduncan – November 6, 2013

“311. I am not Herbert – November 6, 2013

…actually, “the force” is real too! I kid you not!

***

Oh? How do you know that?”

Maybe he is a Jedi master :)

323. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

the force:

In China it is called Qi…

David Wilcock calls it the Source Field…

I HIGHLY RECOMMEND:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Source-Field-Investigations-Civilizations/dp/0452297974/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1383775069&sr=8-1&keywords=source+field+investigations

324. Ahmed - November 6, 2013

@ 312. I am not Herbert – November 6, 2013

“…actually, “the force” is real too! I kid you not!

(so is “the matrix”, in a way…) ;-)”

I’m confused, are you saying that we live in a simulated reality as well ?? Are you Neo by any chance ? :)

325. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

“Maybe he is a Jedi master :)”

in fact, i do Qi Gong, directing Qi energy through my body, and the tip of my sword… ;-)

326. Ahmed - November 6, 2013

@ 316. I am not Herbert – November 6, 2013

“the force:
In China it is called Qi…
David Wilcock calls it the Source Field…

I HIGHLY RECOMMEND:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Source-Field-Investigations-Civilizations/dp/0452297974/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1383775069&sr=8-1&keywords=source+field+investigations

That sound like the mumbo jumbo books that I used to read in my high school years. You know, books about Atlantis & other lost civilizations, extra-sensory perception ESP!!

327. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

Ahmed: we are divine beings who have chosen to participate in a material illusion…

328. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

Ahmed: All of that “mumbo-jumbo”, is real! I kid you not!

329. dmduncan - November 6, 2013

315. I am not Herbert – November 6, 2013

So there you are trying to coax out of Bob whatever quasi-religion you think he holds, while having one of your own.

That’s funny. So I guess it’s a matter of him having the RIGHT quasi-religion that will satisfy you.

330. dmduncan - November 6, 2013

321. I am not Herbert – November 6, 2013

Are spirit beings real? Or just the Force?

331. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

No.

I seek Spiritual Awareness (Enlightenment)(Awakening)

I reject all religion as corrupt.

332. Ahmed - November 6, 2013

@319. I am not Herbert – November 6, 2013

“Ahmed: we are divine beings who have chosen to participate in a material illusion…”

This sound very religious !!

333. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

spirit beings: the universe and it’s multiple dimension are FULL of life! So, short answer = yes ;-)

334. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

religious? no.

investigate the difference between SPIRITUALITY and religion… ;-)

335. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

May the Force be with you!

Amitābha! (Infinite/boundless Light) =)

336. dmduncan - November 6, 2013

334. I am not Herbert – November 6, 2013

Been there, done that. There is none. You are providing proof of that right now by showing to us that your beliefs are organized into a system that you think is “true.” So you are hairsplitting. The Egyptians had no WORD for religion, but they had a system of beliefs that fits the definition of one.

What is “spiritual awareness,” “enlightenment”?

337. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

religion is man-made by the power elite,

spirituality comes from inside yourself… if you are able to recognize, and overcome ego…

338. Stephan - November 6, 2013

Hairsplitting.

339. Stephan - November 6, 2013

By the way nobody knows about boborci’s religion or spirituality, except for himself.
Furthermore it wouldn’t say anything about his writing skills. Only people with black and white thinking would connect his belief with his writing skills.

340. dmduncan - November 6, 2013

337. I am not Herbert – November 6, 2013

religion is man-made by the power elite,

spirituality comes from inside yourself… if you are able to recognize, and overcome ego…

***

And who creates the belief that spirituality comes from inside yourself?

341. dmduncan - November 6, 2013

339. Stephan – November 6, 2013

Pretty much.

I wouldn’t infer that because Bob is doing a TV series about the supernatural, he must therefore believe in it.

342. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

What is “spiritual awareness,” “enlightenment”?

becoming aware of the spiritual nature of reality

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_consciousness

343. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

“And who creates the belief that spirituality comes from inside yourself?”

that is where your “soul” is

no one seeks enlightenment without searching their soul… ;-)

344. Ahmed - November 6, 2013

@ 343. I am not Herbert – November 6, 2013

“that is where your “soul” is”

How do you know for sure that we have souls ?

345. Keachick - November 6, 2013

Ahmed – If anyone is to be “dead wrong”, it is you, in this respect. Many of the technologies that Star Trek predicted have come to pass or are in the pipeline as becoming a reality in the near future. However, just because there are scientists working on how to make transporter or warp drive technology a reality, the actual accomplishment is a fair ways off. Therefore, much of what is shown in the various iterations of Star Trek tends to be, for me, more within the realms of fantasy, as opposed to near futuristic scientific realities.

#308 – Seeing something as fantasy does not necessarily make that person small-minded, anything but.

The notion of a “force” or “energy” is not new. What is also odd to me is why people seem to discount magic. The reality of magic is not new either.

In terms of acknowledging and understanding various experiences that people have recounted way back over time which delve into the realm of what is referred to as the “psychic”, well, orthodox religions and more lately, the scientific community have aligned themselves against those people who have had such experiences. Unfortunately, they have often been cruel and ruthless at times. Witch burning comes to mind…

However, Buddhism never discounted the validity of these powerful experiences. Indeed, it saw them as, quite possibly, having a distracting influence on the person’s ability to achieve an Enlightened state of being/experience, a Mind of Compassion and Wisdom. It saw such experiences that some adepts may have as just being part and parcel of the higher consciousness coming into being and warned against becoming too distracted by these abilities and experiences because of how they can engage the person’s ego and could have a negative, corrupting influence.

It is not because this kind of ‘force’, ‘energy’, ‘magic’ does not exist. It is the very opposite. They DO exist and have always done so. The Buddha and others advise(d) caution, which is why warnings are given in the New Testament as well.

346. Ahmed - November 6, 2013

@345. Keachick

“The notion of a “force” or “energy” is not new. What is also odd to me is why people seem to discount magic. The reality of magic is not new either. ”

So, you think that transporter and warp drive technology are fantasy but you think that magic is real !!!

“It is not because this kind of ‘force’, ‘energy’, ‘magic’ does not exist. It is the very opposite. They DO exist and have always done so. The Buddha and others advise(d) caution, which is why warnings are given in the New Testament as well.”

Are you a New Age believer by any chance ?

347. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

“How do you know for sure that we have souls ?”

well, we are getting into some large issues… ;-)

If you are truly interested, i urge you to start you own investigation… but the book i recommended is a great start.. ;-)

I know that only the body dies, spirit does not. Your spirit (soul) goes on without the hindrance of a material body, until you decide to incarnate again, this cycle repeats until you have enough experience to “graduate” to the next level of human evolution.

in fact, we are on the cusp of that “graduation” cycle right now… ;-)

348. dmduncan - November 6, 2013

342. I am not Herbert – November 6, 2013

You misunderstand. I am not seeking technical information that I am missing and can get from one of your links, I am seeking particular answers that come straight from speaking what you believe in your own words. You are the same guy who believes people need to think for themselves, no?

That’s why I was probing your knowledge earlier with my test questions. I wanted to know what you really know and what you are just amalgamating in your shopping cart from the New Age spiritual supermarket.

349. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

yes, rose, “magic” is real too. =)

and yes, care is advised…

light side of the force: service to others

dark side of the force: service to self

350. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

dmduncan:

these are BIG topics that are hard to explain with out a discourse… but i will do my best… ;-)

glad you are interested… ;-)

351. Stephan - November 6, 2013

“but the book i recommended is a great start.. ;-)”

Sounds too much like dogma for me.

Then I can take the bible as well.

352. dmduncan - November 6, 2013

350. I am not Herbert – November 6, 2013

No. Please don’t discourse. I have enough information about you already and I don’t need you to point out more beliefs as a way of explaining some of your other beliefs.

The point has been made that while you’re slamming Bob’s Star Trek for some imaginary quasi-religious point of view you believe it has because of him, you are hook, line, and sinker-deep into your own quasi-religious views.

353. Keachick - November 6, 2013

Of course, magic is real, as seen by the people watching the magicians do their thing. Personally, I find magic shows boring, but you can’t discount what magicians like David Copperfield and others have managed to do. Creating illusion is a major factor and that takes skill…

Transporter and warp drive technology do NOT exist at the moment. It is a wish, a fantasy. Maybe, hopefully, in time, such technologies or similar may no longer be a wish, a fantasy, but a scientific reality.

As for being a New Age believer – I wouldn’t know. I believe in goodness and in possibilities. I have been baptized as Catholic and I also have the name *Yeshe Dolma (I’ve been told that it means “Lamp of Wisdom” – haha). I have actually tried to “belong” but I can’t and I won’t be pigeon-holed. Some lady told me a while back that I was a “free spirit”. Who knows – perhaps she had it/me sussed…

*Yeshe Dolma is a name given to suggest a spiritual strength that I have and also what requires further development. Also “wisdom” is of the “feminine”…

354. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

Stephan: actually the book is VERY SCIENTIFIC in it’s approach… leading you to your own conclusions… ;-)

355. Lurker - November 6, 2013

Ahh…the “new humans” in the TMP novelization?

356. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

Rose: these technologies do not exist AS FAR AS YOU KNOW… ;-)

I suggest that they DO exist. You (and everyone else) have been kept in the dark… ;-)

Roswell DID happen, and that was the genesis of our modern age… ;-)

the secret gov’t has had a pact with the greys ever since… =(

357. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

YES! Homo-Novus!

358. boborci - November 6, 2013

288 whocares

Thanks! and, really? Benedict Arnold? anything you care to share? will treat his “secret history” with repect;).

359. boborci - November 6, 2013

respect

360. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

resisting snarkiness re: respect… ;-)

361. Keachick - November 6, 2013

#356 – Oh please…groan (no, not that kind of groaning)…sigh…:)

#351 – Actually the book recommended is not defined as “dogma”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogma

One of the more interesting aspects of Buddhism is that it has no Dogma. It has essential concepts that help to explain the Buddha’s view of the realities of human existence like the Four Noble Truths and guiding principles such as are in the Precepts and Noble Eightfold Path.

362. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

Rose! you vixen! ;-)

but that’s how they fool you: make you afraid of ridicule… ;-)

i don’t want to be embarrassed! believe in little space men??

intelligent people accept this: space travelers are visiting us, and have been throughout human existence.

363. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

yes. Buddhism is not a religion; so, no dogma… =)

I am very close to being a Tibetan Buddhist… ;-)

364. MJ -- THE GRAND RETURN !!! - November 6, 2013

I am not Herbert,

There is nothing more boorish than someone who thinks that they are funny, when they are not. You are a complete bore, and are not the slightest bit entertaining.

365. Ahmed - November 6, 2013

@364. MJ

Come on, MJ. It wasn’t total waste of time. We found out that he actually believes in supernatural stuff. And Keachick also believes in magic!

I say this was very informative discussion :)

366. Keachick - November 6, 2013

#362 – “intelligent people”? Really? Me a “vixen”? How so?

#365 – What’s not to “believe”. Magicians perform magic – Fact. Such a dumbass discussion.

367. Keachick - November 6, 2013

Query to Bob Orci – I cannot recall anyone referring to Harrison/Khan’s blood as being “magical” in the STID movie, and yet so many people here keep referring to the blood as being “magical”. Am I correct to say that you and the other writers never referred to Khan’s blood as “magical”?

368. Marja - November 6, 2013

316. I am not Herbert – November 6, 2013
fantasy – in YOUR SMALL MIND … the truth of what WE can already do will ASTOUND you ;-)

317. I am not Herbert – November 6, 2013
yes marja, this applies to you too… ;-)

And later IANHerbert, “spirituality comes from inside yourself… if you are able to recognize, and overcome ego…”

Do yourself a favor, go meditate upon the prospect of recognizing and overcoming your own ego. Perhaps the Pleidians can enlighten you.

Your sense of superiority and entitlement is obvious to all of us and is troll-ish in nature. I have tried to answer some of your Trek-related posts in a spirit of debate; however, I do not accept being termed “small-minded” by anyone.

I’m done responding to you.

369. Ahmed - November 6, 2013

@ 366. Keachick – November 6, 2013

“#365 – What’s not to “believe”. Magicians perform magic – Fact. Such a dumbass discussion.”

Are you talking about the kind of magic they teach at Hogwarts ?

Because magicians like David Copperfield are not really magicians, they don’t have magical powers. They are good illusionists, nothing more.

370. Nick - November 6, 2013

From what I am reading here Joe Cornish is an in-experienced director with only one movie to his name that does not seem to be well-regarded and was a commercial failure.

I don’t need Spock for this logic equation, unless I am misinformed.

I do think someone of the calibre of Brad Bird would be excellent. I personally love his work, he is experienced & commercially successful. He has also worked with JJ before on Ghost Protocol … so we also have a fit. Is he available though?

371. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

Marja (&Rose): my apologies for using the term “small-minded”… i will try to find something easier on the ego next time… ;-)

plus: I really do appreciate seeing your input; you are quite reasonable, and I recognize you as a fellow fan of real Star Trek. =)

HUGZ?

372. Joss for Trek - November 6, 2013

Personally, maybe its time to branch out. I know he’s in high demand these days, but perhaps try to get Joss Whedon, or even his brother Zack. Even aside from The Avengers, Joss previously had done wonders with Firefly and Serenity, though short-lived those were. Firefly and Serenity are a lot like Star Trek in some ways, enough to qualify Whedon to helm Trek itself, anyway.

373. Disinvited - November 6, 2013

#358. boborci – November 6, 2013

This likely needs proper vetting BFWIW:

http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/arizona_quarterly_a_journal_of_american_literature_culture_and_theory/summary/v061/61.3.hughes.html

“Major John André was the staff officer in charge of intelligence for the British Commander-in-Chief, General Clinton. André had opened negotiations with the disgruntled American Major General, Benedict Arnold, and in September 1780 was behind American lines, completing negotiations for Arnold’s treason, when his sloop was forced back down the Hudson, stranding him behind the lines. André attempted to reach British lines by land, but was caught by an irregular patrol near Tarrytown, out of uniform, under a false name, and carrying papers relevant to Arnold’s treason. Arnold received the news and quickly escaped to New York City. André’s gallantry during his trial and appeal (to be reclassified, despite his disguise and his conveyance of classified documents, from spy to prisoner of war) earned him broad sympathy (1081). Nevertheless, he was found guilty and was hanged as a spy, some miles down river from Sleepy Hollow and on the opposite shore, at Tappan. Had the unfortunate major but remained in British uniform, he would have survived and instead been interned as a prisoner of war.”

374. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

“Perhaps the Pleidians can enlighten you. ”

…indeed they have… =)

LL&P

375. Keachick - November 6, 2013

“Performers of magic
Magician (paranormal), a practitioner of magic
An entertainer who performs magic (illusion) by creating the illusion of impossible or supernatural feats; also known as a stage magician or illusionist
A practitioner of ceremonial magic, a system of occult techniques for spiritual development
Magician (fantasy), a character in a fictional fantasy context” Wikipedia

“Magician – n. 1 a person skilled in or practising magic 2 a conjuror. 3 a person with exceptional skill. [ME f. OF magicien f. LL magica...]” Concise Oxford English Dictionary

The term I use is correct. I am not sure who is being more boorish right now – I am not Herbert or Ahmed.

I am free to believe or not to believe in whatever. Frankly, I am not sure what makes your sneering disbelief more credible than my belief in a possibility.

376. Ahmed - November 6, 2013

@374. Keachick,

I didn’t ask for a dictionary definition, I’m simply asking you what kind of magic you refer to, the paranormal type or the one that we see on stage. Not that hard to answer this simple question.

377. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

Ahmed: there is some cross-over: David Blaine, Chris Angel, etc…

it’s not either / or…

378. Keachick - November 6, 2013

“i will try to find something easier on the ego next time… ;-)”

Please – Lose the smugness, I am not Herbert.

If I may be so bold, I think you have much to learn when it comes to the practice of Right Speech, ie harmonious and effective written communication. You have tended to be a little prescriptive here, so I see no reason why I should not follow your example.

I doubt there is a single regular contributor to this site who has not been pissed off by some of your posts here at some time or other, especially since they have the same overall theme and that is to rubbish these Star Trek movies with text bytes, with some of them yelling at readers. It would be fair to say that everybody has written something that has probably pissed off someone else coming here, but you, sadly, keep making a habit of it.

Just saying…

379. Dswynne - November 6, 2013

@269 (Ahmed): U mad, bro?

380. Keachick - November 6, 2013

#375 – You said that people like David Copperfield were not really magicians. I supplied definitions from two different sources which verified that such people were magicians performing magic.

I believe in possibilities…

381. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

Rose: I BOW TO YOU with humble acceptance. You are right of course, but if one wants to practice being a good Buddhist, one would probably avoid this site… ;-)

…i am on the path… but the summit is still a long ways off… ;-)

thank you for reminding me… ;-)

i guess i still have some passion though… ;-)

382. I am not Herbert - November 6, 2013

“I believe in possibilities…”(!)

i’ll second that! =D

383. Ahmed - November 6, 2013

@ 378. Dswynne – November 6, 2013

“@269 (Ahmed): U mad, bro?”

Nope, I just don’t like to be accused of doing something that I didn’t do. Like I said in my comment, our discussions here was mostly about the new guy & on topic, until K-7 came in & changed the direction into another silly arguments which forced Matt to close the thread temporarily.

If I started an argument, you can point your finger at me but not before that.

384. Ahmed - November 6, 2013

@ 379. Keachick – November 6, 2013

OK,

385. dswynne1 - November 6, 2013

@383 (Ahmed):

Well, first, you have a negative reputation, which has been documented extensively around here, and, two, I wasn’t accusing you of anything specific. I was simply lumping you with the usual bunch of trouble-makers that make posting around here tiresome, which means that I was NOT singling you out. But, to be fair, you have calmed down a bit lately, so, for THAT, I thank you.

386. K-7 - November 6, 2013

@383

The guy who blew up Star Trek fandom this year — Ahmed — criticizes me for Matt shutting down this thread for a time.

Well, you know, given Ahmed is by far the best expert on things getting out of hand with Star Trek fans, I guess he is probably right. I will defer to Ahmed as the lead expert on the world on poor Star Trek fan behavior.

We all have certain areas of expertise here.

387. K-7 - November 6, 2013

dswynne1,

I hear you dude. The only think more sad than some of Ahmed’s negative posts, is that he doesn’t even comprehend how hypocritical he comes across given his negative viral incident with Bob Orci.

Matt, sorry for these two posts, but Ahmed had to get in his little dig on me on post @385 — he brought this all up again, not me. Ahmed would be well advised to exercise more self-restraint here and stop trying to bait me constantly.

388. K-7 - November 6, 2013

….meant post @383

389. Ahmed - November 6, 2013

@ 385. dswynne1 – November 6, 2013

“@383 (Ahmed):

Well, first, you have a negative reputation, which has been documented extensively around here”

Well, that sure is true in the eyes of some STID worshipers who can’t accept any view that criticize their masterpiece.

” I was simply lumping you with the usual bunch of trouble-makers that make posting around here tiresome, which means that I was NOT singling you out.”

That is really funny. The real bunch of trouble-makers here are the ones who gang up on anyone who disagree with them. Go back & check the last couple threads & you will see a patten where the STID gang coordinate their attacks against anyone who say something against STID.

390. Ahmed - November 6, 2013

@387. K-7

” Ahmed would be well advised to exercise more self-restraint here and stop trying to bait me constantly.”

lol, coming from the guy who was ranting that I was the reason why Star Trek can’t get an A-list director.

Stop replying to my comments & I will do the same.

391. Who cares - November 6, 2013

@Boborci. Well, if having Benedict turn out to be one of the other three horsemen is what makes for a compelling story, or a willing ally of the demons, then please don’t feel like you shouldn’t. I have after all read a lot of stuff over the course of my life that has portrayed the man as far worse than he actually was. In terms of the actual historical Benedict Arnold, he was not a bad man, and he did truly believe in what he was doing, as a modern American I naturally think he was on the wrong side, but that doesn’t make him a bad man (in a world where the revolution wasn’t an attempt to stall the apocalypse).

I have a fairly interesting family history, I have probably mentioned it before around here, and some of my ancestors were on both sides of the American Revolution, the “Indian Wars”, War of 1812, the American Civil War, I am in direct line of descent from two past US Presidents, and English Nobility, and my family encouraged my curiosity about all facets of my family history, so I know just how interesting real history is, and how complicated, it also feed my love of “historical sci-fi/fantasy” shows like Sleepy Hollow, or Highlander, Forever Knight, some aspects of Buffy and Angel, and so on.

Thanks again Bob,

392. Dave H - November 6, 2013

Amhed,

Seriously, you were obviously baiting K-7 with your post here. Please drop the act of being supposedly shocked by him responding in kind to you.

You baited him. Stop re dredging up your old grudges here. You are better than this.

393. Marja - November 6, 2013

372 Joss, YES! YES! YES! I would be bowled over if Joss Whedon would direct. Alas he’s probably tied up with Marvel madness for the next however many years Disney can stretch it out :-P

Joss or Spielberg FTW!!!

394. Ahmed - November 6, 2013

@392. Dave H

I was addressing K-7, not the whole gang, OK

If there was something concerning you, then you can reply to my comment. Other than that, mind your own business, please.

395. K-7 - November 6, 2013

@Ahmed: “Stop replying to my comments & I will do the same.”

YOU ARE THE ONE WHO SLAMMED ME. You tried to cleverly do it in a way that made it sound like you were some voice of reason supporting Matt…but it was an obvious slam against me, and it was factually wrong as well.

Stop baiting and trying to bully me, Ahmed. I am getting real tired of this infantile crap from you.

And also please stop with this nonsense of this supposed gang of people that defend STID — the real truth is that you just have a lot of people here who legitimately disagree with you on stuff. Make peace with this fact — deal with it.

396. K-7 - November 6, 2013

Thanks Dave for the support. Yea, I was just having a relaxing evening here and just happened to check this site, and then I see that completely unnecessary and uncalled for slam from Ahmed. Sheesh, I thought we had all moved on from those arguments after Matt gave us that time out. I had certainly moved on. And Matt, if you are reading this, I apologize, but I have to at least minimally defend myself here.

*************************
392. Dave H – November 6, 2013
Amhed,

Seriously, you were obviously baiting K-7 with your post here. Please drop the act of being supposedly shocked by him responding in kind to you.

You baited him. Stop re dredging up your old grudges here. You are better than this.

397. Ahmed - November 6, 2013

@395. K-7

“Stop baiting and trying to bully me, Ahmed. I am getting real tired of this infantile crap from you.”

Really ? How about you read your own words:

” 111. K-7 – November 3, 2013

Ahmed,

I kind of find your bitching and sarcasm on Cornish to be disingenuous. Based on Dave H’s assessment, which I agree with, you are someone who may be at least partly responsible for as to why they cannot get an established director singed on. In Dave’s 4 points, you were both a significant player in #1 (irate fans going public on the internet), and in point #3 (it was your comments that Bob Orci overrated to, and led to him being criticized very badly all over the internet).

With all due respect, Ahmed, you would be well advised to perhaps just keep your piehole closed during this discussion we are having here. You are part of the problem, not part of the solution.”

So, how about you stop baiting me & try to find something else to do around here ?

398. K-7 - November 6, 2013

Matt,

Please see above. Ahmed is trying to recycle our old arguments here that caused you to close down posting here.

I could respond in kind to him, and post some of the crap he has posted to me, but I choose not to.

399. Ahmed - November 6, 2013

@ 398. K-7 – November 6, 2013

“I could respond in kind to him, and post some of the crap he has posted to me, but I choose not to.”

Don’t worry, I will just do that for you & post some of the “crap” that I posted to you:

—————————————

116. Ahmed – November 3, 2013

@108. K-7

“With all due respect, Ahmed, you would be well advised to perhaps just keep your piehole closed during this discussion we are having here. You are part of the problem, not part of the solution.”

Here we were having adult discussions about the possible new director & you come up with that childish rant.

—————————————

123. Ahmed – November 3, 2013

@116. K-7

“Actually, your childish rants may have played a role in why we can’t get an established director here, ”

Are you serious ? I had no idea !!

Tell you what, I’m going to call my agent in LA, Mr. Ray Donovan, first thing in the morning to get in touch with the A-list directors who ran away from a multimillion movie deal because of my comment.

I’m sure, once they are assured that I will not comment on their work, they will beg Paramount to let them direct the next movie. Are you happy now ?

400. K-7 - November 6, 2013

Matt,

Again, please see above. Ahmed is determined to relive our past arguments here that led you to shut this thread down.

As I previously communicated to you, Matt, while I could respond in kind to him, and post some of the crap he has posted to me, I choose not to.

401. Ahmed - November 6, 2013

I made my point & this is my last comment regarding that individual.

402. Dave H - November 6, 2013

Ahmed, enough please with stop trying to fight again those old arguments. You seem so determined to try to bait K-7 here again on this, that an objective person might conclude that you are holding a grudge for having lost this debate with K-7…I mean, if you were confident in your ideas there in that discussion with K-7, then why bait him tonight and then re-post everything here again?

I don’t get why you feel the need to drag us all through this again, and risk Matt closing things down again? For once, K-7 is showing more maturity than you — and that does not happen very often (sorry, K-7).

403. MJ -- THE GRAND RETURN !!! - November 6, 2013

Ahmed,

Come on, my friend. Settle down, dude.

404. K-7 - November 6, 2013

@401 “I made my point & this is my last comment regarding that individual.”

Cool, I can now return to my relaxing evening, where no one is ambushing me out of the blue anymore.

405. Ahmed - November 6, 2013

@ 403. MJ — THE GRAND RETURN !!! – November 6, 2013

” Ahmed,

Come on, my friend. Settle down, dude.”

I already moved on, dude. Check my comment #401.

406. Red Dead Ryan - November 6, 2013

Oh, for f@ck sakes, I was away from this site all day….and when I come back onto this thread, all I see is the usual antics by Ahmed, I am not Herbert, and Keeper.

Ahmed — It’s clear here that you have been baiting K-7 into a pissing match. You have a problem with the fact some of us happen to disagree with your opinions about STID.

I am not Herbert — Again, knock it off already. This thread is about Joe Cornish being the candidate for director of the next “Star Trek” movie. You have no right to question Bob’s religious background.

Keeper — Just because you own the dvds, doesn’t mean you get the right to call Bob and Alex “bozos”. Also, I find it hypocritical that you supposedly like the movies but hate the guys who wrote them. You simply have no credibility here.

All three of you owe Bob seperate apologies. He has been gracious enough to come here and chat with us and all you can do is repay him in unkindness.

407. Diskhanbobulated - November 6, 2013

289. Marja

No one is making excuses here, I’m calling into question the use of “homophobia” and “hate” by certain people whenever they encounter someone who has a different opinion than they do. Using those words doesn’t encourage civil discourse, it’s merely an attempt to shut down discussion by name-calling. Equating people who think differently than you with the Westboro Baptist Church is projecting the very same judgmentalism that they have.

408. Red Shirt Diaries - November 6, 2013

Read Dead Ryan,

I am certainly tempted to agree with you. But then again, I really can’t bare to once again hear Ahmed whine that we are some kind of “gang”, who secretly coordinate views that disagree with him.

When you think about it, the “that STID gang is out to get me” is really the lamest sort of “get out of jail free card.” It reeks of paranoia as well.

People should grow up here and take disagreements like adults, and stop bitching just because sometimes they are outnumbered by others who legitimately have a different opinion.

409. P Technobabble - November 7, 2013

I’ve been away for a while. I’m “happy” to see nothing has changed.

410. Trekbilly - November 7, 2013

#407 — MUCH AGREED!!! ((Loud, rancorous applause))

411. Yanks - November 7, 2013

Who? I had to look him up on IMDb.

Not much of a directing resume.

Personally I’d prefer for JJ to remain. (ducks….)

I don’t think the directing has been the problem.

412. Curious Cadet - November 7, 2013

@393. Marja,
“Joss or Spielberg FTW!!!”

I agree with you about Wheadon.

But for some reason I don’t see Spielberg ever directing an Orci script. Maybe he learned his lesson after producing and losing his shirt on the collosal failure of Cowboys and Aliens. But I don’t have a justifiable reason for this, more of a gut feeling. Though Spielberg has produced some real clunkers, his directorial résumé is a little more pristine.

That’s not to say Orci couldn’t be thrown off Star Trek at any time once a director is hired. It happens routinely in Hollywood. Or somebody like Lindelof is brought in to “fix” a script, without throwing out the baby, but often changing it dramatically. The problem may well be that Star Trek is perceived to be Orci’s and even after only two films, there’s so much “canon” already that a new director will be unable to do much original with it, especially in the looming shadow of Abrams work — who will still be looking over any director’s shoulder as producer. And would Spielberg really be willing to be Abrams’ employee? Would he even be willing to come in behind Abrams and reinterpret his protege/friend’s work, potentially risking the relationship?

413. dswynne1 - November 7, 2013

@408 (Red Shirt Diaries): And it is also unfortunate that these so-called fans of Star Trek behave in a manner that continues the stereotype that fans of ‘Trek are the misanthropes of fandom. Like it or not, JJ Abrams and Bad Robot revitalized the franchise and brought in fresh blood at a time when Star Trek was all but DEAD. And while I think criticism of any film is healthy, since it serves as a way for producers to get feedback for the public, certain “fans” can take their ire to a whole new level that is, IMO, uncalled for. In fact, I’m convinced that the so-called push poll at the Star Trek Convention in ‘Vegas was a “con job” set up by Trekkies who hated the production choices that Bad Robot has made since rebooting the franchise back in 2009, IMO. I mean, really. “The Final Frontier” is better than STiD? Please.

414. J - November 7, 2013

A Mr. Nobody to direct a Star Trek feature for the 50th Anniversary of the franchise? Dude.

Worst. Joke. Ever.

415. Gary 8.5 - November 7, 2013

414. When Stephen Spielberg directed Jaws, he had one film to his name, Sugarland Express
Aside from some TV work, Nobody knew who he was .

416. Stephan - November 7, 2013

You are right. But how many directors made their first film and were never heard of again?
Do we want to push our luck for trek?
I don’t say it couldn’t work out with Cornish. I am just a little more nervous than I would be with e.g. Brad Bird. ;) And I am afraid that paramount wants to keep it cheap by choosing a cheap director.

417. Gary 8.5 - November 7, 2013

It doesnt mean they want to keep it cheap,
it means they want to keep the budget under control .
Big difference .

418. MJB - November 7, 2013

They could save money by dropping the 3D option….unless their data says that it brings in enough profits to justify it again. I believe 3D is more popular internationally…not as much in the US.
I’m bored with 3D. I have a 3D TV & blu ray player and I tend to watch the blu ray version instead of 3D. Wearing the glasses are a hassle.

419. Stephan - November 7, 2013

Then please keep it under control by reducing in technical aspects not creative ones.

420. crazydaystrom - November 7, 2013

415. Gary 8.5

Indeed. Over the years so many fine films have been made without all the foreknowledge we’re graced with these days. Let the makers do their jobs and let’s see what comes up, why don’t we? We really think we know better than those whose jobs it is to make films. Sure crap is made, a LOT of it, and mediocre, good and great films are as well. But all our whining bitching and criticism amounts to what? About a hill of beans and not much more…if that. Let’s just see how it all goes.

I haven’t been happiest fan around re: nuTrek but I’ve seen the Trek pendulum swing back and forth several times since the sixties and I know it’ll continue to swing. And I also know STAR TREK LIVES!!! and that will continue as well, through all our sound and fury, rants and raves, boos and applause.

I’m happy about the idea of Joe Cornish directing the next movie, for reasons I’ve stated here before. And I’m holding on to the possibility he just might make what will turn out to be my favorite Trek film EVER. Could happen. Maybe not but more improbable things have. I know of no solid or substantial reason to think not.

It’s just that it seems so many people just have to bitch, BITCH, BITCH! about things (he says, bitching about this thing). About hating JJ, his Star Trek, about hating the haters or the lovers’ about this, that and those other things! And it’s all hubris and arrogant presumption for the most part. Let it go. Let it flow. It’s all going to be alright. Sooner or later. (Hopefully before I assume temperature haha).

Did I say we were graced with internet foreknowledge? Is that a blessing or a curse? We think we know so much…

421. Ahmed - November 7, 2013

@416. Stephan

“I don’t say it couldn’t work out with Cornish. I am just a little more nervous than I would be with e.g. Brad Bird. ;) And I am afraid that paramount wants to keep it cheap by choosing a cheap director.”

I was also not sure about Cornish at the beginning, then I watched “Attack the Block” the other night. It was not bad movie at all, like I said upthread, he manages to balance action & humor.

But no denying that he is a lot cheaper than an A-list director & he will have less power than Abrams.

422. Disinvited - November 7, 2013

#420. crazydaystrom – November 7, 2013

I agree STAR TREK has never stopped living, but apparently it is not living as large as Marvel has after its divorce from Paramount:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-ct-netflix-marvel-disney-20131107,0,3396157.story

423. Ahmed - November 7, 2013

@406. Red Dead Ryan

“All three of you owe Bob seperate apologies. He has been gracious enough to come here and chat with us and all you can do is repay him in unkindness.”

Hey moron, what apology you are talking about here ? I asked Bob a question & he replied. Are you too dumb to demand apology for any comment ?

What is with you & demanding apology from everyone , anyway ? In almost half of your posts, you always demand apologies!!

Get some help please.

424. MJB - November 7, 2013

420. crazydaystrom
Right on!!! We should at the very least be happy that we have any new Trek at all. This franchise was dead – D E A D until JJ & Orci & Kurtzman rescued it from the CBS/Paramount garbage bin.

Bob Orci:
Can you give us any NEW real info regarding ST3? A hint? Anything???? We’re your friends here (most of us) – we’ll keep it secret ;)

425. Curious Cadet - November 7, 2013

@413. dswynne1,
“JJ Abrams and Bad Robot revitalized the franchise and brought in fresh blood at a time when Star Trek was all but DEAD”

While I don’t disagree with some of your other points, I do feel compelled to comment that this statement is GROSS hyperbole, and is oft cited to justify controversial decisions by Abrams. Star Trek was far from dead when CBS pulled it off the air. It was an artificial demise if anything. Interest in Star Trek remained high, which is WHY Paramount and CBS pushed to get a movie into production.

Give credit where credit is due, Abrams revitalized Trek and took its popularity to new heights, but he it didn’t save Trek from television or cinematic death, much less a cultural one. There was always going to be more Trek, and indeed had CBS not cancelled it, ST:ENT might have run three more seasons right up to the movie, and leaving a functional production entity intact so as to seamlessly launch another series following the success of ST09, perhaps even with Orci at the helm. There is evidence ENT was forced into cancellation by CBS responsible for its Friday night move and failure to consider fledgling DVR and online streaming data with its ratings, much as TOS similarly suffered with its move by NBC to Friday night and subsequent cancellation.

426. Disinvited - November 7, 2013

#424. MJB – November 7, 2013

Lord knows I don’t have much respect for what the suits at both the old and new Paramounts have mostly done with regards to Trek, but it is a bit of a stretch to take the position that “JJ & Orci & Kurtzman” could have done anything for Trek if Gail Berman and Les Moonves hadn’t come to a meeting of the minds. If anything, Gail properly deserves credit for saving “franchise” Trek as she’s the one who convinced Les to give license and then she approached JJ et al.

427. Red Dead Ryan - November 7, 2013

Everyone,

This is what Ahmed has posted at #423. It is directed at me, and you’ll notice he’s resorted to petty insults and name-calling:

“Hey moron, what apology you are talking about here ? I asked Bob a question & he replied. Are you too dumb to demand apology for any comment ?

What is with you & demanding apology from everyone , anyway ? In almost half of your posts, you always demand apologies!!

Get some help please.”

This just goes to show that Ahmed doesn’t respond well to criticism, and he very conveniently forgets his own behavior that resulted in Bob’s infamous outburst that led to his brief departure from this site and which made headlines on other websites.

He still hasn’t apologized to Bob, and until he does, we can’t move on from this.

428. Damian - November 7, 2013

409–No, the names may change, but the battles stay the same.

I suppose it does say something that we are all passionate about Star Trek. We all care about the future of Star Trek, we just disagree on what that future should be.

429. Marja - November 7, 2013

Note to All: The lengthy response below is my response to Diskhanbobulated re: OSCard’s homophobia. Skip on down if you’re not interested in this OT discussion.

407 Diskhanbobulated, my post to you which led to your 407.
289. Marja “254 Diskhan, “Homophobia” is a fear of homosexuality. Often it is related to the fear that oneself is homosexually inclined.

“As for hate, homophobics excuse and/or ignore the hatred some people exhibit toward homosexuals. Card himself has been mighty, mighty coy about expressing his dislike, but it’s pretty clear. I don’t fear and hate Card, but I fear and hate what his personal views can lead to, just as I fear and hate the “visions” put forth by the minister who maintains “God Hates Fags.” You see, the excuses people make for homophobia are hateful, because of their effect on society.”

Then you said, “No one is making excuses here, I’m calling into question the use of “homophobia” and “hate” by certain people whenever they encounter someone who has a different opinion than they do. Using those words doesn’t encourage civil discourse, it’s merely an attempt to shut down discussion by name-calling. Equating people who think differently than you with the Westboro Baptist Church is projecting the very same judgmentalism that they have.”

First of all, I didn’t use the word “hate” in my original post about going to see the movie. I used the word “homophobia.”

Second, I used the word hate IRT your charge that “homophobia” means FEAR and HATE of homosexuals and then you asked me if I fear and hate Card. I said, as you see above, that I don’t fear and hate Card.I don’t know the guy.

Yet, “by their works ye shall know them.” By his work “Ender’s Game” I see that he has compassion, a readiness to accept difference, and a dislike of trickery. [I have not yet read the book, BTW.] Thus I find it extremely odd that he has expressed negative views on homosexuality.

I hate the possibility of homophobia’s effects [fear of others] on society. Witness the young folks who decry anything they find unacceptable as “gay.” They’re responding to their own inner fear, and stoking the fear of others because others don’t want to be seen as “gay”/unacceptable. Gay-bashings are rife in school-age children who are just discovering and affirming their own sexuality. Prejudice turns to active hatred turns to action in the immature.

Homophobia, I reiterate, is “fear of homosexuality.” If it’s kept to oneself it need not manifest in hatred toward homosexuals. It is a private struggle.

Personally I fear that people excusing homophobia expressed at large will stand by as others actively hate homosexuals. Active hate can change into actions. And I don’t like that. In fact I fear that, and hate the prospect of thoughts becoming actions.

Okay?

430. Ahmed - November 7, 2013

@427. Red Dead Ryan

“He still hasn’t apologized to Bob, and until he does, we can’t move on from this.”

Clearly you are stuck in the past, I feel sorry for you. Get some real help.

oh and this is last time that I will comment on your posts, since all you are talking about is ” I DEMAND AN APOLOGY” !!

431. Damian - November 7, 2013

426–I tend to agree about Gail Berman. She took an active role in moving Star Trek (2009) forward.

Prior to that, there was an 11th movie planned that would have taken place during the Romulan War. I actually thought it was an interesting premise, as that is one era, outside the novels, that was left untouched on screen, and led to what we know as the Star Trek universe in a lot of ways.

But it would have had almost no established characters (outside of a few from Enterprise, such as Shran). It would have been a huge risk at a time Star Trek needed to get back to basics. Eric Jendersen wrote a script. He had noted Rick Berman was basically connected in name only. Berman himself had noted at the time it was unlikely the project would move forward. An interesting piece of Star Trek history, Memory Alpha has more details in their article “Star Trek: The Beginning.” The main character would have been James Kirk’s grandfather, Tiberius. I always wondered if that line from Star Trek (2009) about Kirk’s grandfather when they were picking a name was a nod to that lost project.

I’d love to see a mini-series on the Romulan War, but that’s almost a guaranteed non-starter. It would likely have to involve some of the characters from Enterprise, since it would be inconceivable that the flagship of Starfleet wouldn’t be involved. I guess that’s why Pocketbooks finally took the plunge, since we’ll likely never see The Romulan War on screen.

But Gail Berman still thought there was potential with Star Trek and a prequel idea, and she apparently contacted Bob Orci and the rest is history.

432. Red Dead Ryan - November 7, 2013

#429.

“oh and this is last time that I will comment on your posts, since all you are talking about is ” I DEMAND AN APOLOGY” !!”

Yeah, I’m sure it will be your last comment on the subject….until you start baiting K-7 or someone else into your pissing game. LOL!

433. Marja - November 7, 2013

Also, Diskhan, please note that Card initially made homophobic remarks, then got coy about his fears when some Sci-Fi fans called him to account.

I am providing links to several sources detailing Card’s remarks. Make up your own minds.

http://www.salon.com/2013/05/07/sci_fi_icon_orson_scott_card_hates_fan_fiction_the_homosexual_agenda_partner/

http://www.policymic.com/articles/71539/what-ender-s-game-teaches-us-about-enda-and-homophobia

http://www.wired.com/underwire/2013/10/enders-game/

http://www.advocate.com/arts-entertainment/film/2013/11/01/op-ed-why-im-going-see-enders-game

434. Marja - November 7, 2013

412 Curious, I’m definitely crossing my fingers when I say I’d like to see Spielberg direct this long-lived SF franchise.

Also smiling a little b/c Abrams has many times credited Spielberg for supporting his interest in directing and being something of a mentor. So I’m saying, “Wouldn’t it be neat if Abrams’ mentor did this wonderful thing.”

I suspect you’re right about Spielberg perhaps not wanting to work with Orci based on Cowboys&Aliens [which I thought was a fun movie, especially with Olivia Wilde's character turning out to be such a badass ; ) - and Daniel Craig was great].

435. Ahmed - November 7, 2013

@ 432. Marja – November 7, 2013

“I suspect you’re right about Spielberg perhaps not wanting to work with Orci based on Cowboys&Aliens”

But Bob didn’t write the movie alone. The script was written by a committee of 8 writers (Roberto Orci, Alex Kurtzman, Damon Lindelof, Mark Fergus, Hawk Ostby, Mark Fergus, Hawk Ostby and Steve Oedekerk) !!

436. Ahmed - November 7, 2013

oops, make that 5 writers, not 8, sorry

437. Ahmed - November 7, 2013

There really should be an edit option here. The list has 6 writers, not 8 or 5. clearly I need another coffee :)

438. Marja - November 7, 2013

415 Gary 8.5, “@414. When Stephen Spielberg directed Jaws, he had one film to his name, Sugarland Express … Aside from some TV work, Nobody knew who he was.”
TV work most notably “Duel,” starring Dennis Weaver and a semi truck. The boy done pretty good for himself, eh?

439. Marja - November 7, 2013

435 Ahmed, thanks for the info “But Bob didn’t write the movie alone. The script was written by a committee of [6] writers (Roberto Orci, Alex Kurtzman, Damon Lindelof, Mark Fergus, Hawk Ostby, Mark Fergus, Hawk Ostby and Steve Oedekerk) !!”

Didn’t Oedenkerk do a lot of comedy work …?

Ah well, in my somewhat limited critical view, I liked it.

440. Damian - November 7, 2013

I just don’t see Spielberg directing a Star Trek movie. I don’t know that he’d want to step into a franchise as well established as Star Trek’s. I think he likes to create new things.

Star Trek has a long history and a very established canon. Even Abrams and co. creating a new timeline have to keep to certain rules when it comes to Star Trek, and I think Spielberg would find that too limiting.

441. Marja - November 7, 2013

406, RDR, RSD, K-7, Et. Al., If memory serves, Ahmed and Orci straightened out their “issues” right here on this site when Orci came back to the public on the internet.

So dwelling on that past incident seems a bit beside the point, as does the constant offense/feeling attacked and resultant defense/demand for apologies. IMO it’s tiresome and does your reputations no justice, guys. I’ve seen all of you post more rational, Trek-related stuff, some I’ve disagreed with and some I’ve agreed with.

I understand that many have a personal axe to grind with Ahmed, but would like to point out that when I have challenged him on certain of his views regarding STiD, we’ve had productive dialogue. As I have with many of you.

Does the grinding of personal axes belong here? Isn’t this a discussion forum, not an accusation/defense forum? IMHO, too much time and emotion is wasted on this.

I like you all, I just don’t always like the words you say.

442. Marja - November 7, 2013

And lest I be seen as “leaping to Ahmed’s defense” I will include him in that number of people who attack/defend, because I’ve seen that behavior from him too.

We’re here to discuss things, not attack each other. Really. PLEASE.

Gently and Nicely Yours,
Marja

443. Silvereyes - November 7, 2013

#431 Red Dead Ryan

I take it you’re rather young. Maybe in your teens or very early twenties?

Don’t demand apologies. Just don’t.

444. Keachick - November 7, 2013

#433 – This could be a case of too many cooks…

Anyway, I found Cowboys & Aliens reasonably entertaining and watchable, which is more than I can say for some movies that many like, eg the Dark Knight series. I have not been able to watch either right through. Then there are some popular TV series that some people here have given big thumbs up to which cause me to reach for the remote, even when I see their trailers advertised, eg The Walking Dead. I always keep thinking that I must give this series a go, until I see another advertisement for it. Then, just before they screen the next episode, they give a warning about some of its very violent content…I’m afraid it is once again a case of “Remote, here I come”.

Ahmed – I think you do need consider making a general apology, because, sometimes the comments you make towards other posters are not particularly edifying. Red Dead Ryan did not deserve to be called a “moron”. It was unnecessary and insulting. He does not need any more “help” than you might need.

It might be OK for Gibbs from NCIS to say “Never apologize”, but none of us here is “Gibbs”, which is probably just as well.

As for others here, if Bob Orci and Ahmed have managed to “let it go”, then it is more than high time that the rest of you do the same. Enough!

445. Marja - November 7, 2013

417 Gary 8.5, “It doesnt mean they want to keep it cheap, it means they want to keep the budget under control. Big difference.”

And thank heavens, because budget excesses seem to lead to too many action set-pieces and wayyy too much CGI.

446. Marja - November 7, 2013

418 MJB, “They could save money by dropping the 3D option….unless their data says that it brings in enough profits to justify it again. I believe 3D is more popular internationally…not as much in the US. … I’m bored with 3D. I have a 3D TV & blu ray player and I tend to watch the blu ray version instead of 3D. Wearing the glasses are a hassle.”

Alas, 3D is enormously popular with the important-to-profits overseas Asian audiences. I’m beginning to think based on the input Paramount got in marketing surveys that these audiences – (1) dislike dialogue (2) dislike Sci-Fi elements (3) love action and (4) love 3D.

“Whither Star Trek,” indeed.

447. Marja - November 7, 2013

420 crazydaystrom, “@415 Gary 8.5, “Indeed. Over the years so many fine films have been made without all the foreknowledge we’re graced with these days. Let the makers do their jobs and let’s see what comes up, why don’t we? We really think we know better than those whose jobs it is to make films. Sure crap is made, a LOT of it, and mediocre, good and great films are as well. But all our whining bitching and criticism amounts to what? About a hill of beans and not much more…if that. Let’s just see how it all goes.”

And just think, if Cornish makes a great splash with this film and becomes super-famous, he will owe it all to Star Trek!!!

I’m grinning at the prospect :-D

I love that so many here say “we can’t” or “we should” as if they’re sitting at Paramount, making decisions, when actually, we’re all here, making our opinions known.

So … YES, we should make our opinions known, in case Bob Orci or others are taking our views under consideration, but we can’t really expect that our opinions will be super influential when Paramount makes their budget.

448. crazydaystrom - November 7, 2013

Yeah, no. I can’t imagine Spielberg doing a Trek film either, though I’d love for that to happen! For one thing the man is very busy. He tends to have projects lined up for years in advance.

Everybody wants a topnotch established director for Star Trek. I’d be as happy with an up and coming director who’s creative, hungry and eager to make a mark in the business.

449. Marja - November 7, 2013

419 Stephan, “Then please keep it under control by reducing in technical aspects not creative ones.”

OH MY YES. Agree, so very much. On the good side, they already have the Enterprise scenery built.

I KNOW!! How about what they used to call a “bottle show” where everything takes place on starships? Heh.

450. Disinvited - November 7, 2013

#430. Damian – November 7, 2013

Thanks.

It’s something that unfortunately gets short shrift from a lot of the fans in Trek’s history: the very significant contribution women made to Trek and its continuance:

Lucille Ball, D.C. Fontana, Nichelle Nichols, Bjo Trimble (with whom I had a few direct dealings which I cherish to this day), Gail Berman, etc.

and I’m grateful to have the opportunities to correct these oversights as afforded me by this very site.

451. Ahmed - November 7, 2013

@440. Marja – November 7, 2013

“And lest I be seen as “leaping to Ahmed’s defense” I will include him in that number of people who attack/defend, because I’ve seen that behavior from him too.”

Yes, I allowed myself to get dragged into pointless arguments & attacks. And several times, in my responds, I took it too far.

So, from now on, I will simply ignore any attacks & focus only on discussing Star Trek & related issues.

We are talking about a movie after all, not a life or death issue, no need at all to get angry over a movie.

452. Damian - November 7, 2013

446–Agree. I wouldn’t rule out someone like Cornish. Nicholas Meyer was up and coming before TWOK and many consider that the best Trek film. Nimoy’s first was TSFS and that was a good Trek film, and Frakes with First Contact was a blockbuster film. So there’s plenty of history to suggest Cornish might due the fans proud.

453. crazydaystrom - November 7, 2013

@Marja
And just think, if Cornish makes a great splash with this film and becomes super-famous, he will owe it all to Star Trek!!!

I’m grinning at the prospect :-D

As well, Marja, as well.

OK boborci! You guys finalize your choice. And give us a few little details about the direction (no pun intended) of the next film. pls&ty

454. Damian - November 7, 2013

448–Yes, that’s true. I hadn’t really though of it in those terms, but there have been numerous women over the years who made significant contributions to Star Trek history. Jeri Taylor is someone else I would put on that list. Whatever people’s feelings are about Voyager, it was about time a woman was put in the captain’s chair as a lead character.

Kudos to Margaret Clark, the former Trek editor at Pocketbooks. It was her decision to allow Michael Martin and Andy Mangels to undo some of the damage done on Enterprise’s finale: TATV. Books rarely contradict something on screen, generally a good thing, but in this case, it was welcomed (for those who don’t know what I’m referring to, in the Enterprise novel “The Good that Men Do” they depict TATV as being a revision of history of what “really” happened).

455. Ahmed - November 7, 2013

I’m thinking that since they are offering the movie to Cornish & others, this might mean that Bob already done working on a script treatment.

Most directors will want to see a script or a treatment before they sign on. Abrams did this with STID when he said that he will wait to see the script before making a decision.

456. Red Dead Ryan - November 7, 2013

#444.

“Alas, 3D is enormously popular with the important-to-profits overseas Asian audiences. I’m beginning to think based on the input Paramount got in marketing surveys that these audiences – (1) dislike dialogue (2) dislike Sci-Fi elements (3) love action and (4) love 3D.”

This is incorrect. Sure, 3D is popular overseas, but the idea that dialogue and sci-fi elements are disliked over there doesn’t hold any water. “Avatar”, “Inception”, “Gravity” are all sci-fi heavy, with lots of action, and they have done quite well around the world.

I think the problems reside with the attitude and mindset of studio suits who, despite their high place in the hierarchy, are often tone-deaf when it comes to audiences’ tastes, trends and expectations, whether in North America or in other parts of the world.

457. Disinvited - November 7, 2013

#454. Red Dead Ryan – November 7, 2013

I’ve pretty much showed my hand in regards to agreeing with you about the suits. And as much as I agree with the optimism of a Cornish helm, it irks me that the suits think a film that will definitely warrant an anniversary marketing campaign does not require a serious attempt to get a “name” director as was done for the launch of Trek cinema.

458. crazydaystrom - November 7, 2013

453. Ahmed – November 7, 2013
I’m thinking that since they are offering the movie to Cornish & others, this might mean that Bob already done working on a script treatment.

I don’t know about finished but well along the way, would be my guess. At least a story formulated by now. I asked boborci some time ago if he ever “worked off the clock”. And if he did, would he ever admit it? Seems to me a Trekkie in his position with the franchise would be “working” all the time towards the next outing. I know he’s busy but Trek is more than just another project for him, I would think. Of course there’s probably some professional and/or union reason to not do that. Or at least to not admit it. Guessing here.

459. Ahmed - November 7, 2013

STAR WARS: EPISODE VII TO OPEN DECEMBER 18, 2015

With pre-production in full-swing, a confirmed release date of December 18, 2015, has been set for Lucasfilm’s highly anticipated Star Wars: Episode VII.

“We’re very excited to share the official 2015 release date for Star Wars: Episode VII, where it will not only anchor the popular holiday filmgoing season but also ensure our extraordinary filmmaking team has the time needed to deliver a sensational picture,” said Alan Horn, chairman of The Walt Disney Studios.

Shooting is scheduled to begin spring 2014 at Pinewood Studios.

http://starwars.com/news/star-wars-episode-vii-to-open-december-18-2015.html

460. crazydaystrom - November 7, 2013

457. Ahmed
STAR WARS: EPISODE VII TO OPEN DECEMBER 18, 2015

Yeah. This Collider story gives some insight into what’s going on with JJ on this.

http://collider.com/jj-abrams-lawrence-kasdan-star-wars-episode-7-writing/

Hope the link works. Never tried this before.

461. Ahmed - November 7, 2013

@458. crazydaystrom

Yeah, I read the Collider report. It looks like Disney is not giving Abrams the full control that he wished to have & that they are kinda rushing him to finish the movie asap.

A Star Wars movie usually take 3 years to complete, I think it is a bit nuts for them to force him to do it in 2 years.

462. crazydaystrom - November 7, 2013

459. Ahmed
A Star Wars movie usually take 3 years to complete, I think it is a bit nuts for them to force him to do it in 2 years.

Dunno Ahmed. I’ve tasted some great food from out of a pressure cooker. The time limit could end up being a plus.

463. MJ -- THE GRAND RETURN !!! - November 7, 2013

Guys, those old star wars movies took much longer because either (for the old trilogy) the model/bluescreen special effects took 2 years to do, and (for the newer trilogy) the then nu-digital special effects at that time took 2 years to do.

Ahmed, I hope you are feeling better today? That was unlike you last night? Best, MJ

464. crazydaystrom - November 7, 2013

461. MJ — THE GRAND RETURN !!!
Guys, those old star wars movies took much longer because either (for the old trilogy) the model/bluescreen special effects took 2 years to do, and (for the newer trilogy) the then nu-digital special effects at that time took 2 years to do.

True enough MJ. Like I said I hope the time constraint will work for the film. I’m not a big Wars fan. The first two, released way back when, are the only good ones IMHO. I’m curious what JJ will do.

465. Ahmed - November 7, 2013

@461. MJ

Any Star Wars movie will need lot of CGIs & special effects, a lot more than your typical summer movie. The good news that Abrams is very experienced when it come to such movies.

“Ahmed, I hope you are feeling better today? That was unlike you last night? Best, MJ”

Thanks my friend, I was a bit nasty yesterday but not anymore. As of now, I will just focus on responding to Trek related issues & ignore other stuff.

466. Bill Peters - November 7, 2013

425. Curious Cadet- anytime CBS talks about ENT, they talk of Franchise Fatague, most of us fans never saw this so called Fatauge, but CBS Did, Also Bermen wanted out, and rather then hand ENT Coto, Berman and CBS Pulled the Plug then came the Divorce in between CBS and Paroumount, JJ and Co help Revive Trek in the General Public Mind and has given us new trek well in to the future, the Question is how do you get CBS on board with a TV show, Apparently JJ and Co Pinched on but CBS wouldn’t bite, not only Has JJ pitched one, several well know stars in Hollywood that come from outside Trek world have Pitched shows and every time CBS says no, CBS right now has no Interest new Trek where Paramount Pictures does, we have to take what Trek we get and Supprot it to get more New Trek, Getting CBS to play hardball is going to be hard.

467. 47 - November 7, 2013

As long as JJ Abrams and the rest of the Bad Robot team work on it, Star Trek will have a Michael Bay feel to it, a Star Wars style, and will be filled super hero elements and corny soap opera moments. It’s already a step in the right direction that Abrams won’t be directing it, and I welcome and fully support any departure from the way those people approached making Star Trek. Now with Abrams gone as a director, I can only hope someone else will come who actually appreciates science fiction and possibly even likes Star Trek. That person, whoever it will be, will, I’m sure, do a much better job at making Trek than Abrams, who self-admittedly “doesn’t get Star Trek” (and it shows). It would be nice to have different writers too, for a change. But the best option of all would still be a reboot of the reboot (will we see that alternate universe bubble burst in the third movie?). But I guess that’s hoping too much. One wish at a time. :)

468. Aurore - November 7, 2013

“….I think the problems reside with the attitude and mindset of studio suits who, despite their high place in the hierarchy, are often tone-deaf when it comes to audiences’ tastes, trends and expectations, whether in North America or in other parts of the world.”

________

Not so long ago, you said something similar within the context of a discussion on “international audiences”, China, 3-D…and, audiences in Iowa and Oklahoma….

I did not disagree with your point of view :

(posts 1568, 1573…) :

http://trekmovie.com/2013/08/06/jj-trek-3-possible-director-and-writers/

Furthermore, with regard to China, I was not surprised in the least to read the following, some time ago :

“…. Unfortunately, Hollywood’s ersatz ‘fortune cookie’ approach to its Chinese product probably won’t work for much longer. Increasingly discriminating Chinese filmgoers are seeking entertainment that unabashedly speaks for them, and the local industry is increasingly able to provide it. Since the turn of the year, Hollywood has slipped behind not because of the Chinese government’s anti-competitive practices, but because of a stream of hits from Chinese film-makers……There will come a point when the Chinese, quite understandably, want a Chinese Iron Man….”

( For more on the question )Link if authorized, here :

http://www.theguardian.com/film/filmblog/2013/apr/23/iron-man-3-chinese-puzzle

469. Basement Blogger - November 7, 2013

@ 262

The Keeper says,

“But then again I suspect the depths of your insight to be as equally shallow as these Bozo writers that shrug off bad critics and take credit for every other redeeming aspect of the film thru no fault of their limited writing abilities.”

You follow up some legitimate criticism with an insult to the writers and then an ad hominem attack on me. And let me respond to your shallow remark. I have a juris doctor and a bachelors degree in music theory. I love film enough to have seen the best 3D movie that no one saw. The documentary Pina. I can discuss Casablanca all day long. You don’t know me. But you demonstrate your personality with insults. Classy.

I see you won’t disclose yourself because you like the anonymity of spewing your bile. You remind me of the angry, hateful internet posters that Bill Maher was talking about. Please take your trolling act somewhere else.

Sincerely,
Bernie Wong

470. crazydaystrom - November 7, 2013

Aurore
My only fear is the possibilty of my favorite franchises becoming diluted by chasing the “dollar” at the cost of creativity. Of course I realize that may very well be already happening. *sigh* What’s a fan and movie lover to do?

471. Jonboc - November 7, 2013

#465 “That person, whoever it will be, will, I’m sure, do a much better job at making Trek than Abrams, who self-admittedly “doesn’t get Star Trek” (and it shows)…”

Sounds like you’re more a fan of the Star Trek spin-offs. Perhaps you need to take a closer look at TNG and the subsequent spin offs and how radically different they are from TOS, if you’re looking to blame someone for not “geting” Star Trek. JJ and Bad Robot “get” Star Trek (aka TOS) just fine. :)

472. dswynne1 - November 7, 2013

@425 (Curious Cadet): The thing is, the ratings of ENT was such that it couldn’t even keep its core audience. Coupled this with the plethora of other Sci-Fi shows (i.e. the Stargate series, BSG, etc.) that ENT had to compete with (including cheap programming like “Reality TV”), Paramount was not about to put in the investment if there was not a gainful return. Bad Robot had a lot of clout by the time Star Trek 2009 was released, thanks to “Lost”, and that helped bring in the fresh audience. And while I did like the Manny Cotto run of ENT, his involvement was not enough to save the show from cancellation. Ergo, I have to respectfully disagree with your assessment. The only thing I do hope that Bad Robot learns from how STiD has been both produced (ie. too much reliance on references to build a plot around) marketed (i.e. never again should the American release of a film be two weeks later than the international release). IMO, of course.

473. Phil - November 7, 2013

Well, three years for a SW movie sounds about right, with micromanager Lucas constantly fiddling with the effects. Now that he’s out of the picture, more or less, two should be fine…

The problem with Ep. 7 seems to be the problem with STID. All kinds of chatter about the script that doesn’t actually exist yet. Sorry to say, but the same pre-production glitches will end up with the same results. A good looking movie that’s light on the story. Fortunately, SW fans are a bit less discriminating. Throw in a few extra light saber duels and the fans are happy…

474. VOODOO - November 7, 2013

I don’t know enough about this man’s work to say one way or the other and neither do most of you.

475. VOODOO - November 7, 2013

Phil # 470

No offense, but you have no idea what is going on behind the scenes with Star Wars.

476. Ahmed - November 7, 2013

@ 471. VOODOO – November 7, 2013

“I don’t know enough about this man’s work to say one way or the other and neither do most of you.”

You may want to check out his movie, Attack the Block. When I heard the news, I wasn’t sure at all about the guy. But then I watched his movie, well the only movie he made so far, and it was kinda good. Not perfect, not even close but it was a well balanced movie.

477. crazydaystrom - November 7, 2013

If the new Star Wars has a pistol ANYWHERE in it that shoots a continuous phaser-type beam, just to change things up a bit I. WILL. GO. BESERK! And NOT in a good way! Haha

478. boborci - November 7, 2013

477 lol

479. Danpaine - November 7, 2013

473, Phil.

Well said.

480. Danpaine - November 7, 2013

Mr. Orci, may I suggest you watch ‘The Enemy Below’ if you haven’t already, as you think of this next installment?

481. MJB - November 7, 2013

Star Wars talk? WTF??

R2D2 was part of the Enterprise crew ( sucked out of the ship after Vengence blasted a hole into the E). What Star Trek element will make an easter egg appearance in SW7?

482. Marja - November 7, 2013

460 Daystrom, If Kasdan’s on board with JJ, it should be a good movie then. Kasdan co-wrote Empire Strikes Back, arguably the best of the SWars movies. Haha, I’ll be interested to see if Abrams actually makes the Disney deadline. If he does I’m afraid I’ll feel a little ‘dissed’ on behalf of dear Star Trek [ the infamous four-year delay].

467 “47″ “…that person, whoever it will be, will, I’m sure, do a much better job at making Trek than Abrams, who self-admittedly “doesn’t get Star Trek” (and it shows)…”

Abrams has repeatedly said that as a kid, I didn’t ‘get’ Star Trek … lots of my friends did, but it was too intellectual for me at the time. [quote not exact] He goes on to say that once he viewed the series preparatory to directing the first movie, he “got it” and liked it very much. Yes, he was much more of a SWars nerd, and that still shows, but I think he got the emotional “heart” of Star Trek quite well. There were other things that bugged a lot of us, including me, but the emotional center seemed true to me.

483. Jim, London - November 7, 2013

Personally i would fly the flag for Neill Blomkamp – he is an outstanding director of science fiction in my opinion.

484. MJ -- THE GRAND RETURN !!! - November 7, 2013

@483

At the risk of repeating myself, given JJ is going to be the “godfather” of next movie, and essentially be the lead guy, you are simply not going to get a Blompkamp or a Wyatt to be the director. Guys like that want to “run the show” now at this point in their careers.

So you might as well stop bringing up such names — you can simply rule them out based on my sound logic here.

Enough said!

485. MJ -- THE GRAND RETURN !!! - November 7, 2013

“The problem with Ep. 7 seems to be the problem with STID. All kinds of chatter about the script that doesn’t actually exist yet. Sorry to say, but the same pre-production glitches will end up with the same results. A good looking movie that’s light on the story. Fortunately, SW fans are a bit less discriminating. Throw in a few extra light saber duels and the fans are happy…”

Wow, I completely disagree with that. Many, many SW fans are still fuming at Lucas for the lame second trilogy. I don’t think your comment here is even close to accurate, Phil.

And my prediction will be that E7 will be marginally better than the 2nd trilogy movies, but nowhere as good as the original two or three. Think of The Hobbit Part 1 last year — a workmanlike effort that made of ton of money, but at the end of the day, it was pretty forgettable and nowhere near as good as any of the three LOTR movies. Ep 7 will be received like the Hobbit Part 1 — that is my prediction.

486. Red Dead Ryan - November 7, 2013

I agree with MJ. As long as Bad Robot produces “Star Trek” movies, the only likely candidates hoping to be directors will be lesser known, “fringe” (pun not intended, or was it? *wink*) camera bosses who don’t have the clout nor power or reputation to be able to butt heads with the studio, or ask for extra money and/or time.

487. MJ -- THE GRAND RETURN !!! - November 7, 2013

Ahmed, is there a lot of gore in Attack from the Block. Not big on gore (Alien is about my limit / I hate slasher movies), so please let me know before I order the Blu-Ray? Thanks Man

488. Ahmed - November 7, 2013

@ 487. MJ — THE GRAND RETURN !!! – November 7, 2013

“Ahmed, is there a lot of gore in Attack from the Block. Not big on gore (Alien is about my limit / I hate slasher movies), so please let me know before I order the Blu-Ray? Thanks Man”

There are some brief scenes where the aliens are either rips off throats or bites faces. These scenes are very quick & the camera don’t stay long at the gory stuff.

I didn’t find it really gory, maybe because I’m used to David Cronenberg’s movies :)

btw, I found the slang very hard to follow that I had to use subtitles to understand what the heck the kids were saying :)

489. DiscoSpock - November 7, 2013

#485 / MJ

“And my prediction will be that E7 will be marginally better than the 2nd trilogy movies, but nowhere as good as the original two or three. Think of The Hobbit Part 1 last year — a workmanlike effort that made of ton of money, but at the end of the day, it was pretty forgettable and nowhere near as good as any of the three LOTR movies. Ep 7 will be received like the Hobbit Part 1 — that is my prediction.”

Exactly my opinion as well, MJ. They won’t blow it, but the movie won’t be great either. It will make money and keep the franchise going. But it will be a mild letdown for older fans.

490. Red Dead Ryan - November 7, 2013

I think the next “Star Wars” movie will be good — but it will pale in comparison to the “Avatar” sequels, which is the new heavyweight franchise on the block. The “Avatar” movies will end up being the successors to the “Lord Of The Rings” and original “Star Wars” trilogies as massively popular, must-see-several-times-in-the-theatres uber-classics.

491. wtriker1701 - November 7, 2013

@boborci – Wish you all the best for the next Star Trek endeavour!

Still love ST09 (even with Vulcan as a moon over Delta Vega), still have problems with the story execution of STID but still think it’s a rollercoaster of a movie – highly entertaining.

I’m still fascinated, how you organize your professional and private life, being a producer with almost every franchise mankind knows of, being a writer in like almost every show – AND having the time to lurk and write/answer on sites like this. RESPECT!

From now on I should call you “The Roberto” out of that respect. And I mean it!

492. MJ -- THE GRAND RETURN !!! - November 7, 2013

RDR, Disco,

Yea, the biggest problem is that it is inherently IMPOSSIBLE for them to capture the wonder, the novelty, and the incredible characters from the original SW trilogy into something comparable in Ep 7.

Han Solo/For, Luke/Hamill, Lea/Fischer in their prime are not “walking through that door” ever again….well at least not for another 50 to 100 years until a super-advanced AI can recreate them as believable film characters again.

493. Basement Blogger - November 8, 2013

@ 468

Aurore,

Good to hear from you. I hope Paris in autumn is as pretty as it is April. I’ve got to admit that I’ve never been there. Just love the song April in Paris.

Anyway, Hollywood is taking notice of the China audience. Iron Man 3 had scenes filmed in China that had well know Chinese actors I looked at the scenes and they were important ones. It looked like Chinese doctors were removing Tony Stark’s chest hardware. And of course, the idiotic move to make the Mandarin into a clown. In the comics, he was a bad ass. Then they named him Man Daren for the Chinese release of Iron Man 3. Ha, ha. Link.

The filmmakers for Star Trek could film some scenes in China to build up that audience. However, I’m not one for making plot points just to sell tickets. It’s has to be organic. What I think would be cool if there were some pro democracy messages hidden in a metaphor for the Communists. Gene Roddenberry would love it. See the strange TOS The Omega Glory.

http://www.thewrap.com/movies/article/iron-man-3-hits-china-extra-footage-great-expectations-and-fan-bingbing-88456

494. Captain Slow - November 8, 2013

Everyone is going on like Cornish is the only director being considered, but in an interview last week boborci said:

I’ve met with a few very good ones that I really like and we should be making a decision soon.

So Cornish is presumably one of several directors they’re talking to. So since I don’t watch many movies and don’t know many of the smaller name directors, what others on a similar level to Cornish are there that could be interested in doing a Star Trek movie? Because it seems obvious that they aren’t looking for someone like Spielberg but a cheaper alternative. What others have made one or two well-received semi-indie films (aside from Alex Kurtzman)?

495. crazydaystrom - November 8, 2013

494. Captain Slow
Everyone is going on like Cornish is the only director being considered…

Well what the thread is about is the rumor of Cornish directing. We’re commenting on that.

496. Captain Slow - November 8, 2013

Yes, but people are already predicting the death of Star Trek over it.

497. Aurore - November 8, 2013

@ 493. Basement Blogger – November 8, 2013
“…Anyway, Hollywood is taking notice of the China audience. Iron Man 3 had scenes filmed in China that had well know Chinese actors I looked at the scenes and they were important ones. It looked like Chinese doctors were removing Tony Stark’s chest hardware. And of course, the idiotic move to make the Mandarin into a clown. In the comics, he was a bad ass. Then they named him Man Daren for the Chinese release of Iron Man 3. Ha, ha….”
_________

Hi, Bernie ! I hope you are well !

From what I understand, the movie was well received in China.

However, some people were not impressed by what occurred regarding those important scenes you talked about :

“It was billed as a joint venture between two cinematic superpowers, a collaboration between east and west. But the comic-book blockbusterIron Man 3 has now been split into two distinct entities. The version playing to audiences in China will contain Chinese characters and Chinese sequences. The official international version, by and large, will not.

The change has not gone unobserved by some film fans in China, with a handful of bloggers crying foul over locally-shot scenes that failed to find their way into the version released to the rest of the world….Separately, Chinese bloggers and newspapers have noted that sequences shot in Beijing in December, including one in which Iron Man takes off into the sky in front of Dr Wu and a group of cheering schoolchildren at the famous Yongdingmen Gate, are completely missing. Also gone is a segue in which Mr Wu tries to contact Tony Stark on the phone….

The decision to release two versions of Iron Man 3 has already prompted condemnation from bloggers and critics in China. Zhang Pimin, deputy chief of the State Administration of Radio, Film and Television recently criticised what he described as ‘fake’ co-productions that did not contain enough bespoke Chinese content…”

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/apr/26/iron-man-3-chinese-edition

There was this, as well :

“…From the sound of it, the Chinese version of Iron Man 3 brings four minutes of film nobody really wants or needs, save the film’s producers so they could presumably secure whatever funding was necessary. Shame that they weren’t smarter about the deal.

‘It literally offends me as an American in China and as an ethnically Chinese person that Hollywood would attempt to sell this to the Chinese audience,’ says Jou. ‘It undermines Chinese people’s intelligence and movie savvy.’ But it makes money, no?”

(Link if authorized, here) :

http://kotaku.com/why-many-in-china-hate-iron-man-3s-chinese-version-486840429

“…I hope Paris in autumn is as pretty as it is April…”

So do I ( I don’t live in Paris anymore ).

:))

“…I’ve got to admit that I’ve never been there. Just love the song April in Paris.”

So do I.
Here is another song I like…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ahbE6bcVf8

498. crazydaystrom - November 8, 2013

496. Captain Slow
Yes, but people are already predicting the death of Star Trek over it.

Yeah Cap. But Star Trek’s been “dead” before. The reports of that death was greatly exaggerated ;-)

499. crazydaystrom - November 8, 2013

*were*

500. Damian - November 8, 2013

466–I don’t think Rick Berman wanted out necessarily. They (Berman, Braga, Coto) already had storylines lined up for a possible fifth season.

Reading his interviews at the time, he knew the chances of Enterprise being renewed was low though. I mean, whatever your feelings for the guy, he was in television a long time so he knew which way the wind was blowing. I wouldn’t interpret that as being he wanted out.

Then when Jendersen’s script was shelved for the 11th film, he saw the writing on the wall. At the time Paramount started talking with Abrams and his team and Berman had said the next Star Trek production would be with someone fresh, who wasn’t previously involved with Star Trek. (All of this is on Memory Alpha, if you want to see the actual articles cited).

But you are on the money with the network. Most of UPN’s shows at the time were as far from Star Trek as you could get. I mean, they replaced it with America’s Next Top model. I know there was a push to move it to the Sci-Fi network or some other cable network, but I knew Paramount would never go for that. If they weren’t doing it, no one would do it. I think CBS is the same way.

501. Curious Cadet - November 8, 2013

@472. dswynne1,
“The thing is, the ratings of ENT was such that it couldn’t even keep its core audience. Coupled this with the plethora of other Sci-Fi shows (i.e. the Stargate series, BSG, etc.)”

You can disagree if you like, but this is the same myth that NBC cancelled TOS because of low viewership, debunked by the Cushman book and others over the years. At the end, Enterprise was drawing around 2.8 in the Nielsons, compared to 2.2 for SG1 and around 2.2 or less for BSG. The fact is anything over a 2 million is an excellent rating for a cable show today (even for the CW!), for the basic fact that people time shift their viewing of particular shows on DVR, stream episodes online, or binge watch them on Netflix. Much of this ancillary viewing activity is not accounted for in the official ratings, much less in 2004 when Star Trek fans were still watching Enterprise, but not on Friday night where the CW moved it to die. Take a look at Fringe, it had an average viewership of 6 million viewers until Fox moved it to Friday night, where the ratings fell to ENT levels. Yet Fox kept it going for two more seasons, and Fox is a major network. The numbers you and everyone else throw around about Enterprise to prove Star Trek was dead and Abrams saved it are flawed. CBS sought to kill a show that had a decent audience, especially for a sci-fi series on what was essentially a cable network. In fact ENT was probably the only show Trek fans even watched on the CW. Why CBS did that is anybody’s guess. But Star Trek was most assuredly NOT dead, even after CBS tried to kill it. You personally may not have liked the creative direction ENT was taking (or the entire Berman era), but you can rest assured Les Moonves likely took none of that into consideration in his decision, nor did the non-existent lack of audience play into it either. More than likely it’s the same reason NBC cut Star Trek loose — they simply didn’t want to work with Roddenberry anymore. And the CBS programming wiz kid, Moonves, wanted to rebrand the CW, and scifi just didn’t didn’t fit with melodramatic teen soap operas with which he populated the network. If Paramount had taken the Smallville approach with ENT, who knows, it may have had a completely different fate.

502. Curious Cadet - November 8, 2013

^^^^
By the way, Smallville had similar ratings to Enterprise over its last 5 seasons, yet the CW kept it going, even after it dropped below ENT lowest ratings.

503. Damian - November 8, 2013

501–Enterprise was on UPN. The CW did not come into be until 2006. Also, Paramount was still the sole owner of Star Trek at that time. CBS and Paramount did not split until a year of so later, so CBS had nothing to do with the demise of Enterprise. That’s all on Paramount.

I will say, I take ratings with a grain of salt. It was clear UPN was moving in a completely different direction and was basically in its death throes at this point. You may be right, on a cable network at that time, Enterprise might have been considered successful. But there’s also no doubt the fan base had diminished at that point. I do think there was a certain amount of franchise fatigue. I mean, there had been 18 years of continuous Star Trek on television by that point, at points 2 shows being on concurrently. The most popular shows don’t usually last that long, and most people outside Trekkies sort of see Star Trek in all it’s forms as one continuous enterprise (no pun intended).

Personally, I liked Enterprise, and thought by season 4, it finally found it’s legs and really started being a prequel to the original series. It finally put TNG era to rest and was really starting to foreshadow Kirk’s era. I thought it was a big improvement over Voyager. I do wish Paramount had allowed Sci-Fi or another cable network to carry it on, but I also knew Paramount (and now CBS) would never allow that. But the writing was on the wall.

504. curious Cadet - November 8, 2013

@503. Damian,
“Enterprise was on UPN. The CW did not come into be until 2006. Also, Paramount was still the sole owner of Star Trek at that time. CBS and Paramount did not split until a year of so later, so CBS had nothing to do with the demise of Enterprise. That’s all on Paramount.”

I stand corrected regarding the technicality of CW/UPN, and CBS/Paramount ownership.

However, you have to understand what happened at Viacom which owned CBS & UPN at the time. Mel Karizman left Viacom in May 2004. At that time Sumner Redstone split the office of the president between Moonves (CBS) and Tom Freston (MTV), the well publicized rift between the two ultimately leading to the complete separation of CBS & Paramount. As a result Moonves was in charge of CBS and UPN with the split imminent, but not approved until a year later. In fact, Moonves as the head of CBS when Vicaom acquired it in 2000, and merged it with Paramount Television which owned UPN; had been the de facto head of UPN during the entire run of ENT. So, yes CBS had everything to do with canceling ENT because Moonves ran the broadcast TV arm of Vicaom, and Dawn Ostroff reported to him. Moonves=CBS, regardless of what his title had been at Viacom from 2000-2006.

505. Dave H - November 8, 2013

@MJ “Think of The Hobbit Part 1 last year — a workmanlike effort that made of ton of money, but at the end of the day, it was pretty forgettable and nowhere near as good as any of the three LOTR movies. Ep 7 will be received like the Hobbit Part 1 — that is my prediction.”

Your predictions are usually right. This one seems pretty low-risk as well. It seems like they are already struggling with the script, and that Disney is mainly focused on the marketing side versus taking the time needed to make a great movie. I agree with the analogy to the first Hobbit movie as well.

506. Dave H - November 8, 2013

@Captain Slow

The article claimed Cornish was offered the movie once before, and turned it down. How does that fit with your logic?

507. Marja - November 8, 2013

484 MJ, You know “enough said!” is never enough at TrekMovie ; )

508. Marja - November 8, 2013

495 Daystrom, “@ 494. Captain Slow, ‘Everyone is going on like Cornish is the only director being considered…’
Well what the thread is about is the rumor of Cornish directing. We’re commenting on that.

LLOL … Literally LOL … first belly laugh of the day, thanks : )

509. K-7 - November 8, 2013

This “Cornish thing” could be a misdirection from Bad Robot. The fans get a little disappointed with the “who the hell is this guy” reaction to this leaked Cornish guy news story, and then this puts the fans in a better position to be able to say “thank goodness” when the ball is dropped here shortly when Kurtzman is announced as the Director.

So perhaps we are all being played here — is this Expectation Management at it’s best???

510. Damian - November 8, 2013

504–I’m no fan of Moonves. His opinion of Star Trek is pretty clear. CBS seems content to allow the non-canon stuff to continue to be produced (i.e. books, comics, etc.), anything they don’t have to produce themselves. But they have no interest in producing a new TV show. That’s why a few weeks ago when that article about Bob Orci’s interest in a TV show didn’t inspire much confidence in me. CBS is not the least bit interested in a Star Trek TV show. Funny to think Gail Berman had to hurry to hurry to get something together for an 11th movie or CBS would have shut the door. Why? Not like they had any plans for Star Trek.

My main point was that I didn’t think Berman had given up or wanted out (he could have gotten out anytime he wanted, really). I think it was more he saw where the tide was going. And Paramount at the time had pretty much given up as well. I do think Enterprise had a loyal following, esp. by season 4, judging by the write in campaigns at the time (including financial support as well). But the perceptions, fed by the ratings, was that the show was winding down and I’m sure that was driving down advertising, the ultimate factor in any show’s future.

511. K-7 - November 8, 2013

@509. Analyze if ad nasuem, but Enterprise pretty much sucked, and hardly anyone was watching it at the end. True story. You can’t get around that, and analyzing it to death is a fools errand.

512. Damian - November 8, 2013

484–I tend to agree. The Bad Robot team (with JJ in the command seat) is going to have a lot of say. A director really won’t have a lot of independant power.

Sort of like the whole Tobe Hooper/Steven Spielberg thing with Poltergeist. Because of a contract situation in that case, Spielberg couldn’t direct another movie that year. But a lot of people behind the scenes of Poltergeist said Spielberg was more or less unofficially the director, and Hooper really didn’t have a lot of power. I wouldn’t go far to say he was a puppet, but Spielberg was running the show.

I think the same will go here. The next director will probably be the nuts and bolts director, but Abrams will wield a lot of power. That’s one of the reasons you wouldn’t see someone like Spielberg or Ridley Scott directing. They will want autonomy, and that’s not going to happen here.

513. Dave H - November 8, 2013

@K-7

“This “Cornish thing” could be a misdirection from Bad Robot. The fans get a little disappointed with the “who the hell is this guy” reaction to this leaked Cornish guy news story, and then this puts the fans in a better position to be able to say “thank goodness” when the ball is dropped here shortly when Kurtzman is announced as the Director.”

You know, this is a really interesting take on this situation.

514. Marja - November 8, 2013

Was Moonves the same idiot who said “I don’t understand science fiction, and if I don’t understand it I don’t want it on my network”?

I got to love “Enterprise,” watched all the seasons and found 3 & 4 particularly good. It was a great series that should have been on for a couple more seasons at least.

Ugly ship, though

I wish CBS would just sell Star Trek to Paramount for a bazillion bucks [heh] and let go of it already if they don’t want new Trek. So very frustrating. Trek is golden. When well done, of course.

515. Disinvited - November 8, 2013

#503. Damian – November 8, 2013
#504. curious Cadet – November 8, 2013

Actually UPN was folded into the CW with Les still at its head so this just becomes one of those nitpicks of history like when people refer to the colonies during the Revolutionary war time in America as The United States. Which is more accurate: the name as it is known now or the one as it was known then? Largely to me it just seems to depend on the audience and whether the writer has a sense that the majority is more familiar with one appellation or the other. Given this current site is supposedly aimed at hordes of young new fans, perhaps the best form of reference would be “what is now the CW”?

516. Curious Cadet - November 8, 2013

@503 Damien,

Re: structure of Viacom following acquisition of CBS in 2000 — upon quick review I see this is a complex mess of reorganization, so I’m not entirely sure the reporting structure was exactly as I mentioned above. However, all you need to know is this:

http://articles.latimes.com/2001/dec/11/business/fi-13582

517. Marja - November 8, 2013

Bernie and Aurore, “April in Paris,” ah! Count Basie … “One … more … time!”

518. Disinvited - November 8, 2013

#512. Marja – November 8, 2013

This is just now coalescing in my mind so it may come out cruder than I’d prefer, but I wonder if this historical tendency of the suits to undermine Trek is because they don’t “like” dealing with the creative talent which they regard as “nerds” specifically (if not the whole phenomenon) and nerds tend to cause you have to think when you’d really rather not?

519. Damian - November 8, 2013

514–I wouldn’t worry about it. Up until about 2006, things at Paramount TV was very chaotic. I know the CW came into being in 2006, and around the same time, CBS and Paramount had essentially split Star Trek. Up to 2005, it was just Paramount as far as ownership goes.

But no doubt Paramount was no longer supporting Enterprise by 2005, and also not doubt Moonves has no love for Star Trek. I firmly believe as long as Moonves is in charge at CBS, you will see no Star Trek on TV. We’re probably lucky the way he feels he allows the books and comics to be published (though I suspect in those cases since CBS doesn’t have to actually do anything, they don’t care).

520. Damian - November 8, 2013

516–It does seem that way. Star Trek on TV was most successful with TNG and DS9, probably because they were syndicated. They really only had to make Paramount happy. Since they didn’t have a network, they more or less could do what they wanted from that standpoint.

Then UPN came into being. They wanted Voyager to be their flagship show. Ironically, Berman had wanted DS9 to stand alone for a while, but UPN was insistent, more or less letting him know they were going forward with or without him. And of course, the usual network interference set in and by the time Enterprise had come along, Paramount firmly had their hands in cookie jar.

But, on the bright side, since UPN/Paramount was so interested in Voyager, their network show, they more or less left DS9, still in syndication, alone. DS9 ended up the better for it.

521. K-7 - November 8, 2013

Again, all the unneeded analysis here on Enterprise and Moonvies.

Enterprise was a crappy show = not enough people watched = show was not profitable = show cancelled.

No mystery here. No detailed analysis needed.

522. dswynne1 - November 8, 2013

@501 (Curious Cadet): If you are going to be “snarky” about this discussion, even after I pointed out two key ingredients as to why the plug was pulled on ENT (i.e. saturation of the television market of both similar programming and “cheap” programming) and low viewership from the core ‘Trek audience, then this discussion is over, I guess.

523. MJ -- THE GRAND RETURN !!! - November 8, 2013

Leslie Moonvies actually did us all a favor by cancelling the piss-poor Enterprise series. It set the stage for Star Trek getting back to its TOS roots, which is a much more iconic and important focus for Star Trek’s longevity than the limited, but well-meaning Berman era of Star Trek.

TOS and movies associated in (including 2009 and 2013) will still be watched in 50 years; TNG-era efforts — not so much, I’m sorry to have to to say.

524. Disinvited - November 8, 2013

#510. Damian – November 8, 2013

I have a fear, and I am well aware fears aren’t necessarily rational, that whoever accepts the Trek directing position will do so not because of any interest in Trek per se, but because they calculate that JJ will be overwhelmed on STAR WARS which means they’ll get a shot at helping him with meeting the deadlines of that other franchise.

I quell this fear with the amusement of imagining how Irwin Allen would have dealt with it all.

525. I am not Herbert - November 8, 2013

RE: STAR WARS

ya’ know… Jar-Jar Abrams “style” could actually work with Star Wars, given it’s progression(?)… ;-)

so i was thinking… maybe BobOrci’s “style” would be a better match for Star Wars too, and that maybe he could tag along with JJ too??

I HOPE, I HOPE, I HOPE… PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? =O

526. I am not Herbert - November 8, 2013

no… your fear should be: that no one in their right mind would take this job…

only another hack… =(

527. I am not Herbert - November 8, 2013

anyway, re: the pitch…

it’s klingons… d’uh…

=P

528. MJB - November 8, 2013

re: I am not Herbert:

sorry, but all your posts cause my eyes to roll…

and not laugh…

because you’re not funny at all…

DOT DOT DOT DASH DASH DASH DOT DOT DOT

529. MJ -- THE GRAND RETURN !!! - November 8, 2013

@525

Agreed, MJB. What is really the worst from this guy, is all the laughing and smiley faces stuff…like he is constantly laughing at his own jokes. I can’t stand people who laugh obnoxiously at their own jokes; and it makes it doubly worse when their material is not even funny.

He may not be Herbert, but he is certainly is an a-hole.

530. MJ -- THE GRAND RETURN !!! - November 8, 2013

@521 “I have a fear, and I am well aware fears aren’t necessarily rational, that whoever accepts the Trek directing position will do so not because of any interest in Trek per se, but because they calculate that JJ will be overwhelmed on STAR WARS which means they’ll get a shot at helping him with meeting the deadlines of that other franchise.”

If that was the case, they wouldn’t they work their butts off to make the best and most successful Trek movie ever, so that they can get that future SW connection with JJ? Seems to me that this might actually be a positive for the next movie.

531. Disinvited - November 8, 2013

#527. MJ — THE GRAND RETURN !!! – November 8, 2013

I like your optimism. I guess what I fear is a most earnest attempt to turn every Trek setpiece into a SW angle to that end. But I think I’ll return to my initial Cornish optimism.

532. Ahmed - November 8, 2013

Looks like “Ender’s Game” might get a TV spinoff & not a sequel.

===================

“Lionsgate CEO Jon Feltheimer said Friday during a conference call with analysts that the studio will “wait another week or two” before it decides whether to make another film based on the Orson Scott Card series of 13 novels.

He also said that an “Ender’s Game” TV spinoff was under consideration.

“Ender’s Game” has taken in $32.5 million in its first five days at the U.S. box office and another $9 million overseas.”

http://variety.com/2013/film/news/enders-game-sequel-lionsgate-1200808795/

533. Red Dead Ryan - November 8, 2013

Good lord, is “I am not Herbert” at it again? Does he actually believe he’s being funny with his anti-Abrams comments? Does he think he’s being cute with all of those smiley faces?

“I am not Herbert” reminds me of clowns who think they’re hilarious but are actually annoying and obnoxious.

534. I am not Herbert - November 8, 2013

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00418/GrumpyCatBury_418344b.jpg

;-)

hava good weekend everybody! =)

535. I am not Herbert - November 8, 2013

Grumpy Cat scores Hollywood movie deal!

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/arts/film/article3779342.ece

536. MJ -- THE GRAND RETURN !!! - November 8, 2013

@535

What, no updates from you on what Lohan or Cyrus are doing in the news?

537. Marja - November 8, 2013

518 Disinvited, “This is just now coalescing in my mind so it may come out cruder than I’d prefer, but I wonder if this historical tendency of the suits to undermine Trek is because they don’t “like” dealing with the creative talent which they regard as “nerds” specifically (if not the whole phenomenon) and nerds tend to cause you have to think when you’d really rather not?”

That’s a real possibility … also that they’d prefer to splash their money over “The Voice” and other such set-intensive [but not SFX-intensive] shows.

I really think you’re onto something though. They’ve never lost $ underestimating the intelligence of the American public. So why lose $ trying to woo the smart ones? Plus the smart ones are savvy enough to mount “Save Star Trek!” campaigns and diss the networks what dissed us in the first place ….

I say leave it to Netflix or a cable network, but for cryin’ out loud, CBS, grandfather in your exclusive right to market the Trek shows already broadcast, and sell the other rights to Paramount, Bad Robot, Et. Al. Let the audience have Trek back on TV!

What a set of bad circumstances [the wars between Moonves, Redstone, CBS, Paramount, Et. Al.] to curse such a great intellectual property as Trek. And such an inspiring one too.

538. K-7 - November 8, 2013

I am not Herbert.

Why would I imagine that your infatuation with this “Grumpy Cat” thing is related to your love life?

:-)) :-) ;-) lol :-))) …(K-7 laughs over and over his own joke)

539. Red Dead Ryan - November 8, 2013

#538.

“Why would I imagine that your infatuation with this “Grumpy Cat” thing is related to your love life?”

Because its the only pussy he’s interested in! :-D

540. SkiesSeven - November 9, 2013

I seem to have a different opinion about what went wrong with Star Trek: Enterprise. While many seem to think the last two seasons were the best of that show, I actually think the problem started with Season 3. They changed the premise of the show from exploration to war and didn’t handle it intelligently as was done with DS9. In Season 3 Captain Archer lost all the morals one would expect from a Starfleet Captain. The infamous torture scene is a prime example – unfortunately it didn’t end there. We saw Archer do even more terrible things. Like robbing an innocent species on his way to the Xindi homeworld, manipulating Degra while repeatedly wiping his memory, or sentencing Trip’s-clone to death, etc, and the other characters also seem to have suffered bad creative decisions. Like T’pol becoming a crackhead, Trip having interpersonal conflicts with Malcom and T’pol which culminates with Trip leaving the ship altogether; right before he comes back and gets killed, and Hoshi became a practical joke. There just seemed to be so many bad decisions like that, coupled with the saturation factor because Star Trek was on TV for 15 years.

It seemed like Enterprise just went for a ‘dark spin’ and in the process lost all that made it Star Trek. By Season 3 it didn’t even seem like the theme song was compatible with what they had done to the show. It lost it’s soul.

541. SkiesSeven - November 9, 2013

The problem with Enterprise is embodied by the “war room” introduced in Season 3.

542. I am not Herbert - November 9, 2013

Marja: Full Agreement: suits killed Real Star Trek in favor of nu-trek =(

YES: Netflix should become the new home of Real Star Trek! Make it so!

K-7, MJ: Do your mommies know you are on the computer this late? ;-)

543. I am not Herbert - November 9, 2013

…typical tea-baggers… (shakes head) =(

don’t like the message… but can’t refute it?

attack the messenger… =(

is this indicative of what nu-trek contributes to our “society”…? =(

544. Marja - November 9, 2013

541 Herbert, Not what I meant.
541 You’ve attacked messengers and not a few times yourself.

545. Marja - November 9, 2013

All, to clarify:

My “That’s a real possibility … also that they’d prefer to splash their money over “The Voice” and other such set-intensive [but not SFX-intensive] shows.

I really think you’re onto something though. They’ve never lost $ underestimating the intelligence of the American public. So why lose $ trying to woo the smart ones? Plus the smart ones are savvy enough to mount “Save Star Trek!” campaigns and diss the networks what dissed us in the first place ” was directed at the network suits who program television shows.

Not directed at NuTrek.

546. Commodore Adams - November 9, 2013

Actually enterprise season 3 and 4 showed what humans are capable of when pushed to the limits. When the entire world is on the line, yea I might sacrifice my humanity to save the world. As Kirk said, I don’t want my pain taken away from me, I need my pain.

And nu trek is trek, they sit proudly on my shelf with other Star Trek blu rays.

What about when TNG was announced. People were in an uproar, Star Trek isn’t Star Trek without Kirk and Co. Honestly what kind of petty mentality is that!? Those who are loyal to the original series and ONLY the original series are the issue. Purists who hate change. So…nu trek is different and you don’t like it, deal with it, there is nothing you can do about it. Which is your problem, not mine. I love nu trek, so I don’t have any issues, I sleep soundly at night.

547. I am not Herbert - November 9, 2013

“Without (JJ), Star Trek is likely to go somewhere it’s never gone before.”

http://theweek.com/article/index/252347/how-the-next-star-trek-movie-can-surpass-star-wars-episode-vii

548. I am not Herbert - November 9, 2013

…nothing you can do about it? HAH!! you don’t know your history… ;-)

549. Keachick - November 9, 2013

#546 – Link just presents the same unoriginal, stupid drivel…

550. Curious Cadet - November 9, 2013

@519. dswynne1,
“If you are going to be “snarky” about this discussion, even after I pointed out two key ingredients as to why the plug was pulled on ENT (i.e. saturation of the television market of both similar programming and “cheap” programming) and low viewership from the core ‘Trek audience, then this discussion is over, I guess.”

Not sure how I was being “snarky”, but sorry you took it that way. What I did in my response @501 is refute your claims using actual ratings which support my position. Is there some contribution to Trek’s TV demise by the points you make? I would concede that it’s possible, but the ratings don’t support that as a primary factor.

Star Trek was alive and well on TV in 2005, and had Moonves not cancelled ENT, it likely would have kept going for at least 3 more seasons, regardless of what Paramount did on the feature side. Both Berman’s series and Abrams’ movies might have co-existed together. That or ENT would have run its course and been cancelled after it’s 7th season (like the others) just before the launch of ST09.

However, this makes me wonder, would Abrams have agreed to produce Star Trek if the TV aspect of it weren’t potentially on the table? Based on the alleged rift between CBS, Paramount and Bad Robot, it strikes me that had Berman had a contract to produce Trek past 2009, Abrams might have had second thoughts. From all accounts Abrams appeared to have been in search of a franchise, and Star Trek looked like a good one. If the series rights had been tied up with another producer, it might not have been as attractive a prospect. That makes me wonder what kind of deal Berman had. Perhaps had Enterprise gone into a 5th year, Berman had some sort of clause that would extend his contract beyond three more seasons of ENT, and possibly guaranteed him future series development? I suppose anything is possible. Might help explain why Moonves cancelled a series that was otherwise holding its own, if not thriving.

551. MJB - November 9, 2013

546. I am not Herbert

I stopped when I saw “Gut the main cast”. Give. Me. A. Break.

552. I am not Herbert - November 9, 2013

Video: Triangle UFO Fleet Over Chandler, Arizona, USA (TR-3B’s?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QK3IWVSk9T0

553. Dswynne - November 9, 2013

@543 (I am not Herbert): So, does that make you and others like you ‘Trek Baggers’? You purists and the Tea Party have so much in common. You guys don’t like change, and you guys use character assassination against those who disagree with your purist philosophies.

554. I am not Herbert - November 9, 2013

Disclosure First Contact

“Disclosure will happen when President Obama stands before you and says the governments on Earth have engaged with Extraterrestrials and used Extraterrestrial technologies for decades. We will begin to forgive those who hid the Truth when they were not sure what else to do in the face of such stark realities. We will begin to forgive those who moved ahead to weaponize space and never asked us to join in the decision. Whether for greed, love of war, or fear – we will all forgive them now. We will begin to reunite with our Galactic Family and no one will experience fear once all is explained. The news will come out in every language, over the computer, the radio, tv and simultaneously.”

Announcements

“Everyone on Earth will take a vacation day. Even the firefighters and nurses who report for work will be bored and watching the Announcements on tv with everyone there. Changeover, Zero Point Energy and World Peace will be part of the Announcements. Lady Master Nada will take the podium to publicly Announce NESARA Law.”

Lord Sananda through Elizabeth Trutwin, September 17, 2013.©
All Rights Reserved. http://ElizabethTrutwin.org

555. I am not Herbert - November 9, 2013

Dswynne: you’ve got it pretty backwards there… ;-)

LL&P

556. Bill Peters - November 9, 2013

Really think that fans should learn to live with IDIC on who the next Director is and not Judge the Third Movie tell we see it :)

557. SkiesSeven - November 9, 2013

@Commodore Adams

“Actually enterprise season 3 and 4 showed what humans are capable of when pushed to the limits. When the entire world is on the line, yea I might sacrifice my humanity to save the world.”

———

Star Trek is not about throwing morality out the backdoor when things get rough.

558. I am not Herbert - November 9, 2013

FASCINATING…!

http://www.rense.com/general30/yrb3.htm

559. Jason Tchir - November 9, 2013

This is from a while back, but the article compares the “convoluted” plot of STID and recent blockbusters — especially the need to keep key plot information from the audience until later on, when really, it would help make sense of a character’s motivations early on — to Cornish’s Attack the Block, which tells a simple story based on the characters.

http://badassdigest.com/2013/06/12/film-crit-hulk-smash-the-age-of-the-convoluted-blockbuster/

I’ve been watching Revolution again this season (I gave up last season), but it’s tiring me: because it’s increasingly about constant plot reversals and twists and not characters.

And as much as I’m getting a little tired of the Dark Shadows constant-fog-machine vibe of Sleepy Hollow, I’m actually finding myself interested in the two leads (although at this point, it’s still the actors themselves more than how their characters are written).

And final gripe, I’m a little annoyed at Bob Orci’s recent passive-aggressive swipe at folks who didn’t like parts of STID (Nov 1st, Moviepilot).

“I know from long ago that the folk who complain about these movies are, frankly, a small minority. And so, you can’t get 87% on Rotten Tomatoes and then pretend like you’ve messed it all up.”

Sure, it got 87% on Rotten Tomatoes (which Bob knows doesn’t mean 87% of critics gave it five stars, or the equivalent), but even the really good reviews, of those, cited problems: saying the story was uninspired and convoluted, that Trek fans wouldn’t be thrilled with the Khan recycling, and that it didn’t have the energy or confidence of its predecessor.

And, sure, the guy probably constantly gets asked about that widely (and badly) reported story that fans at a Trek convention voted it the worst ever (which, really, was apparently only a small panel — it wasn’t like everyone there filled out a survey).

I don’t agree with most of the fan advice here for the next movie (hire a “real” SF writer, avoid conflict, be about exploration, make it a really obvious allegory), partially because none of that guarantees a fix to the problems: the lack of a character-driven story. Abrams is a hell of a film maker, and he was able to transcend some of the scripts’ troubles (coincidences, lack of motivations, destiny [sure, because of QM sez Bob]) because he does a hell of a job conveying emotion.

And, as I keep saying, maybe being a fan is part of the problem. Look at Ender’s Game. Gavin Hood wrote the script. He says he hadn’t read it until he was in line for the project. So, he didn’t have a fan’s prejudices of what had to be included. I like the movie — I think it’s a different beast than Card’s novel. But it really softens the message and makes it all feel-good and cuddly (even the genocide, I’d argue). And they did it so people (and families with kids) would watch it. I get it. And I’m okay with it. Just like I’m okay with making Trek appeal to larger audiences (and I think including Khan alienated people from this last one — it could have done better… I saw a couple walk out of the movie after the guy had to explain, loudly, to his girlfriend who Khan was and why all this was happening” ).

It’s not fair to personally attack Bob, but it’s a fan site. We’re here to discuss opinions.

560. I am not Herbert - November 9, 2013

I must agree: given the material, JJ did a passing job…

BUT: as the director, isn’t he ultimately responsible for (all) the material?

ALSO: I’m SURE that all of the “writing choices” are not BobOrci’s…

LL&P

561. I am not Herbert - November 9, 2013

TR-3B is hyperspace capable as the stills show – taken at night in France.

http://peswiki.com/images/f/fe/Tr3bstills.jpg

562. DiscoSpock - November 9, 2013

K-7

LOL^2

Yea, I can’t imagine this pompous know-it-all ever “getting much cat”. “Cats” are undoubtedly grumpy when we comes too close. Ha! Ha! Ha!

***************************************************
538. K-7 – November 8, 2013

I am not Herbert.

Why would I imagine that your infatuation with this “Grumpy Cat” thing is related to your love life?

:-)) :-) ;-) lol :-))) …(K-7 laughs over and over his own joke)

563. DiscoSpock - November 9, 2013

correction: “when he”

564. I am not Herbert - November 9, 2013

…that’s not what your DiscoMom said… ;-)

565. DiscoSpock - November 9, 2013

Well, I hear it that your mom is in fact, “Herbert.” ;-)

566. I am not Herbert - November 9, 2013

…i love dealing w/ adolescents ;-)

567. Curious Cadet - November 9, 2013

@126. dmduncan,
“Give Ender’s Game a chance; after only its third day in release I think news of its death are WAY premature.”

Well, it may have been premature last weekend, but I think the writing is on the wall now.

Thor 2 opened to a whopping $32 million Friday take. Ender’s game dropped down to 4th with a $3 million take for it’s second weekend (behind Bad Grandpa!). It’s at $46 million worldwide and with a $110 million budget, it’s going to have a long climb to recoup its budget. Will be interesting to see the current foreign numbers tomorrow. But the fact that After Earth (to which it is being compared) had almost double the box office by the same time during its run, suggests Ender’s Game completely missed the mark with general audiences.

Lionsgate announced they would give it a couple more weekends before determining its fate as a franchise property. My guess is Ender’s will be a one-off. Too bad. Well Orci still has Star Trek.

Meanwhile Thor 2 is set to equal its $170 million budget in box office returns during its first two weekends. Ender’s may have a shot at grabbing more box office next weekend, but once Hunger Games hits, Ender’s will have probably made all the money its going to.

Better see it while I can!

And Gravity is about $30 million away from matching STID in less than a third of the time. Gotta think a well written story, and major movie stars had something to do with that. Maybe what Trek needs is a full-blooded Mexican for the next movie — Alfonso Cuaron, maybe?

568. I am not Herbert - November 9, 2013

Hell YES! Mexicanos have EXCELLENT creativity and artistry! =)

Thor is one of my heroes! =D (Original Spock = #1)

…(for now) Orci has Trek ;-)

…I think it’s time for a “blindside” (!) ;-)

…that would make getting a director SOOO much easier! ;-)

569. J - November 9, 2013

@415

“When Stephen Spielberg directed Jaws, he had one film to his name, Sugarland Express”

How is that a valid analogy? Was he directing the first installment of Jaws or the 13th? Was Jaws a franchise with 50-year-long history at that point?

I didn’t think so.

570. MJ -- THE GRAND RETURN !!! - November 9, 2013

“…i love dealing w/ adolescents ;-)”

That makes sense non-Herbert, since you have the online personality of a 15-year old boy. And I am not including a smiley face on this — I really think that you are a teenager.

Also, please don’t bring your weak UFO-nut stuff here. Not interested.

571. MJ -- THE GRAND RETURN !!! - November 9, 2013

@567

Box office or not, Ender’s Game is a very good scifi movie.

I think it is a shame that the gay community organized against this movie. I have been a supporter of gay rights my entire life, and the foundation of that support and my beliefs are built on showing tolerance for others’ views. I thus find this smear campaign and boycott as hypocritical and unnecessary.

572. Ahmed - November 9, 2013

Kirk could use Chris Christie advice in his next mission:

“Don’t be so cute”

Just be serious & focus on your mission.

573. Dave H - November 9, 2013

MJ: “That makes sense non-Herbert, since you have the online personality of a 15-year old boy.”

That’s being generous, MJ. I’d say 13 years old at most.

574. I am not Herbert - November 9, 2013

yes, LOTS of adolescents… =(

Ahmed: FULL AGREEMENT… cut ALL of the cutesy-pie crap, please!

YES! how ’bout some actual Star Fleet operations! Captain’s Log, etc…!

575. DiscoSpock - November 9, 2013

@571

My vote: 12 -year old girl?

:-))

576. I am not Herbert - November 9, 2013

have fun, twits…

577. MJ -- THE GRAND RETURN !!! - November 9, 2013

@570 “Kirk could use Chris Christie advice in his next mission”

Perhaps Shat could play Chris Christie in the movie, given they look a hell of a lot like each other these days:

http://media.salon.com/2013/02/chris_christie2.jpg

http://www.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/20100219/300.shatner.william.lc.021910.jpg

578. Ahmed - November 9, 2013

@ 575. MJ — THE GRAND RETURN !!! – November 9, 2013

“Perhaps Shat could play Chris Christie in the movie, given they look a hell of a lot like each other these days:”

You are mistaken my friend. Shanter looks a lot better than Christie, he is not as heavy as Christie.

Check last night interview with Piers Morga on CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/bestoftv/2013/11/08/exp-pmt-william-shatner-america-obamacare.cnn.html

579. DiscoSpock - November 9, 2013

#576

Christie has lost weight recently as well.

I do see a valid appearance comparison here.

580. DiscoSpock - November 9, 2013

Here’s a picture of I am not Herbert:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/Dennis_the_Menace_Jay_North_1960.jpg

581. James McFadden - November 9, 2013

Hello.
I know that I am going a little off topic here but I have some ideas that I want to share. lt would be nice to see a 5-season Original Series followed by a 5-season Next Generation based on the new timeline (2017 and 2027 onwards). I could see Star Trek (nuTrek) continuing as TV and Film up until 2038. A 2-season Star Trek web series, based on events after the destruction of Romulus in 2387 in the Prime Universe (oldTrek), should be created in 2017 and streamed by Netflix. The 2-season Star Trek web series should have 30 webisodes per season. It would be fun.

582. K-7 - November 9, 2013

#578

Disco,

Thanks for sharing the photo of I am not Herbert. That’s pretty much as I imagined what he looked like.

583. Denivian Slime Devil - November 9, 2013

575: MJ you are so gay for Shat.

Even at this stage in his life, he looks better, is much sharper than you.
and is well liked as opposed to your delusions.

584. Despicable - November 9, 2013

Oh great, a hack who doesn’t understand Star Trek. It’s not like we haven’t had that solidly for the past four films running.

585. Chief Engineer - November 10, 2013

Would love Alfonso Cuaron to take control of Star Trek 3… Both he and Bad Robot are currently worked together and he has taken on a major franchise in the past…

586. Steve Gennarelli - November 10, 2013

Take a look at the photo of Joe Cornish. He’s rockin’ the Barnabas Collins bangs circa 1969. Between that and his game hens, let him helm Trek 3 and then we can judge the poor guy.

587. dmduncan - November 10, 2013

@559

The one thing Ender’s game really needed and didn’t have was to let us in on the aliens’ psychology and why it is they hadn’t attacked again. They misunderstood humans. They thought we were like their drones—mindless automatons who carried out the directives of a queen, and that killing us was not murder, killing QUEENS was murder. When they realized that each human was an independent thinking and feeling being like one of their queens, they could not kill us.

In the book Ender was beginning to suspect that, but in the movie he only knows that for some unspecified reason they hadn’t attacked again in 50 years.

The enormity of the what happens to the aliens and the pathological paranoia of the men like Graff only look as bad as it is when we know how much more conscientious than humans the aliens actually were.

So that’s one very important difference the book had that the movie did not. For that reason the movie actually makes it easier to side with people who think like Graff than the book did.

Yeah, we did something extreme to the aliens, but THEY attacked US first is what a lot of people will come away with.

588. Jack - November 10, 2013

” lt would be nice to see a 5-season Original Series followed by a 5-season Next Generation based on the new timeline (2017 and 2027 onwards). I could see Star Trek (nuTrek) continuing as TV and Film up until 2038.”

Part of my fear with this is what happened last time — having TOS-era and TNG era shows concurrently (or even one after the other) really limited the possibilities of both and created a really intricate, convoluted, canon of future events.

Nothing about the TNG characters is particularly iconic, arguably — why not a series or miniseries set in the new TOS timeline, or even the Kelvin timeline, with a different ship and crew. I personally wonder why we need to see the exact TNG era (we had 15 years of it) again — I realize it could all be different this time, but why not do something brand new. The whole point of a reboot was to free up space for storytelling.

And BTW, nyone calling Joe Cornish a hack — or calling for a ’90s A-list director because Star Trek will be 50 (yawn) — either doesn’t watch a lot of movies and/or is deluding themselves. The next movie will have a huge budget. Look at how good The Amazing Spider-Man was, with a director who’d done one independent, twee sort-of-romcom — TAS did exactly what these movies should do, focused on character and not entire city-destroying destruction. It’s weakness was that it followed the “must save the city” plot of all superhero flicks, but it worked.

BTW, I’m still intrigued by Lindelof’s fix to WWZ — he took a ridiculous hand-to-hand combat, ‘splosion, CGI,-filled standard Hollywood epic battle and replaced it with a simple, intense, suspense-filled, relatively small-stakes (sure, the point was to save the world — but it was just a fight to get a virus) scene. It provided no crazy scenes for teh trailers, but it was probably one of the most intense moments on the movie.

589. Jason Tchir - November 10, 2013

587. “So that’s one very important difference the book had that the movie did not. For that reason the movie actually makes it easier to side with people who think like Graff than the book did. Yeah, we did something extreme to the aliens, but THEY attacked US first is what a lot of people will come away with.”

Agreed. Absolutely. Sure, they give Ender a couple of lines asking why the aliens didn’t attack — but, yeah, I agree.

Also, the movie tells us how Ender and everyone else is being pushed to the limits and treated horribly, but doesn’t show it. It skates pretty close to being a standard feel-good Harry Potter/coming-of-age/beating-the-odds movie in some aspects.

That fight with Bonzo (Bonzo slips and hits his head rather than being killed by a direct punch from Ender) is an example. I’m wondering if the decision to change that was because of marketability.

590. Basement Blogger - November 10, 2013

@ 588

Jack says,

“And BTW, nyone calling Joe Cornish a hack — or calling for a ’90s A-list director because Star Trek will be 50 (yawn) — either doesn’t watch a lot of movies and/or is deluding themselves. The next movie will have a huge budget. Look at how good The Amazing Spider-Man was, with a director who’d done one independent, twee sort-of-romcom — TAS did exactly what these movies should do, focused on character and not entire city-destroying destruction.”

Well I was going to disagree with you about the “deluding” part but you make a good point about The Amazing Spider-Man. I do watch a lot of movies maybe not as much as I should. I like to say that I’m the only one here who saw Wim Wenders’ 3D documentary ‘Pina.” Okay, The Amazing Spider-Man did not suffer with a new director or new star.

However, it’s the fiftieth anniversary of Star Trek. Disney thought big and got J.J. Abrams. Paramount ? Joe Cornish. If you are an American, you would have to look hard to see where the movie played. According to Wikipedia, it was sixty six theaters. Link. So I did not see it. By contrast Marc Webb’s 500 Days of Summer had a wide release. Before that film he directed a ton of music videos. I want to make this clear. Joe Cornish maybe a great director. But he is relatively unknown and I’m assuming one thing that Paramount wants to see, cheap.

Fifty years is not a “yawn” as you put it. It’s special It’s why people who are married for that long period give it special significance. It’s why some people celebrate their lives when they hit that mark. And why is that? It’ half a century. Fifty years marks longevity. Longevity may mean nothing to you but to humanity, it’s important.

Very few science fiction television shows and or movie series last for ten years. Star Trek has lasted for fifty and will go on. Fifty years is important to this Trekker. It would be a celebration of cultural significance. Just think about the lives that Trek has touched. The engineers in NASA who were inspired by Star Trek. The inspiration for technological innovation. See the cell phone. Star Trek is a special piece of science fiction and should be celebrated on the fiftieth anniversary.

Link. Attack on the Block played in sixty six theaters in America.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_the_Block#Box_office

591. Ahmed - November 10, 2013

@588. Jack

“The next movie will have a huge budget. ”

Not likely after what happened in the summer. Paramount & other studios will cut down budgets for future movies.

==================

Summer Box Office Fallout: Studios’ New Fear of the $200 Million Tentpole

“Paramount also will look to save money on another Star Trek — a franchise, but not quite in the top tier. This summer’s $190 million production Star Trek Into Darkness has earned over $462 million worldwide; its international haul has exceeded expectations at $234 million, but domestically, its $228.5 million hasn’t matched the first film.

Whereas the first two were shot in L.A., the next will be filmed in a more tax-friendly location. “We’re making it for what it should have been shot for last time if we had made it outside of L.A., which we would have done except that [director J.J. Abrams] didn’t want to,” says a studio source. “That was a $20 million issue.””

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/summer-box-office-bombs-studios-619389

———————————

Why Studios Must End Their Mega-Budget Obsession

http://variety.com/2013/film/news/box-office-epic-fail-dissecting-the-summer-casualties-1200566353/

———————————

Blockbusters go bust: Big budget movies keep going belly up this summer

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2013/07/24/blockbusters-go-bust-big-budget-movies-keep-going-belly-up-this-summer/

592. Phil - November 10, 2013

@588. Sorry, but the budget for the next one will probably be in the same neighborhood that Trek 09 was. It’s been reported for a while now that the days of the 200MM movie are numbered – Trek is a good franchise, but it’s never going to deliver a billion dollar movie, especially in an environment where the foreign box office is continuing to slide.

593. dmduncan - November 10, 2013

590. Basement Blogger – November 10, 2013

Star Trek was JJ Abrams SECOND film, which puts Cornish at a comparable level there, at least.

Now you might want to say that MI3 and ATB are on different levels, but JJ Abrams also lives and works in Hollywood and has lots of connections.

Spielberg was his mentor.

The guy had/has powerful connections and I think that is a huge reason for his success. So it’s hard for me to see how the absence of such a comparably stellar employment record is a negative for Cornish because it’s not always or even mostly the consequence of one’s talent alone. Who you know matters.

So, the questions for me are 1. Does Cornish have the technical skills to make a professional movie? I haven’t been able to see Attack the Block yet, so I can’t answer that personally but I am encouraged by the reviews his movie got; that, and I do watch a lot of movies on Netflix where within the first minute I know the filmmakers have no freakin idea what they are doing, and I stop wasting my time before the 2nd minute is up, and the only thing I have gotten from watching the Attack the Block trailer is a good vibe. 2. Can he handle Hollywood? and 3. Is he INTO the idea of directing a big budget Hollywood Star Trek movie? I’ve also no idea about the answer to my second question, but if it’s true that he declined a first offer to direct a Star Trek, then I think it suggests he’s his own man not to leap at the offer, and that’s evidence of a level head, which is a strong positive.

I like filmmakers who do what they LIKE to do, not who do what they are paid to like, especially on Star Trek, my favorite franchise, which I do NOT think JJ Abrams really understands.

JJ Abrams has a great visual sense but there’s others out there who are equal or better and can prove it if they get a shot.

594. dmduncan - November 10, 2013

In fact, I was watching a zombie film on Netflix (whose title I cannot remember right now) and within 5 minutes we get a zombie action scene where one shot shows the crew and camera set up for another angle in the same sequence!

Hilarious!

595. Ahmed - November 10, 2013

@ 594. dmduncan – November 10, 2013

“In fact, I was watching a zombie film on Netflix (whose title I cannot remember right now) and within 5 minutes we get a zombie action scene where one shot shows the crew and camera set up for another angle in the same sequence!

Hilarious!”

LOL,

596. Basement Blogger - November 10, 2013

@ 593

Dmduncan,

Mission Impossible 3 and Attack on the Block are two different movies with two different budgets. Abrams wasn’t a guy no one heard of when he got the directing gig. You forget his TV work.

Felicity and

Lost and

ALIAS.

If you watch the Alias episodes and the two hour Lost pilot he directed, you could see the man has talent. There was an exciting visual and dramatic style. That’s why Abrams was chosen for Mission Impossible 3. He had resume of filmed entertainment. But let’s look at Cornish. Wikipedia below. I see a little TV work, and making of documentaries.

Sorry. Cornish can’t compare to Abrams resume of hit TV shows before given a big budget movie. . Now does that mean he doesn’t have talent? No. Let make this clear. Joe Cornish could be the second coming of Stanley Kubrick. It”s just that if true, Paramount is giving the keys of the Enterprise for the fiftieth anniversary to a an unknown director. I did not see Attack on the Block because as I pointed out above, it played in 66 theaters here in the states.

Link. A look at Joe Cornish’s career.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Cornish_(filmmaker)

597. Ahmed - November 10, 2013

@596. Basement Blogger

Abrams was already handy with big budget projects. “Lost” pilot cost almost as much as “Attack the Block”, between $10 to $14 million.

Mission: Impossible III, the first movie by Abrams, cost $150 million & the lead actor, Tom Cruise, is an A-list actor.

I watched “Attack the Block”. It was an ok movie, not great but also not bad. Cornish is not a fan of fast cuttings which was a relief. You could actually tell who is fighting who & not get confused by the typical fast cutting of modern Hollywood movies.

598. Red Dead Ryan - November 10, 2013

I just watched an eight-and-a-half minute long clip of “Attack The Block” on YouTube. It was okay, nothing we haven’t seen before, and nothing spectacular.

599. Ahmed - November 10, 2013

Here is the clip that RDR mentioned,

Attack the Block – Exclusive Extended Clip! (HD)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOilG1F5gmU

600. dmduncan - November 10, 2013

596. Basement Blogger – November 10, 2013

I don’t forget JJ’s TV work at all, but we’re talking feature length movies here. That’s the basis of the comparison. If you want to make broader comparisons then you also have to look at how JJ is a part of Hollywood and how Cornish is not, instead of assuming that all things are equal and that JJ is where he is because he’s hands down the most talented guy. Nope. Not everybody even WANTS to be part of the Hollywood scene.

Also, Nicholas Meyer’s first screenplay gig was Invasion of the Bee Girls which I found almost unwatchable. His first directing job was Time After Time. He had exactly one movie under his belt before he landed The Wrath of Khan.

So I think you’re being too dismissive of Cornish.

And who’s fault is it that his movie played in only 66 theaters? Europa Report played in only 12! And made only $125,000!!! Indie films do not often pass the infamous Hollywood distribution bottleneck. True, there are a lot of bad films that don’t deserve to get distributed, but then there are good ones that deserve better and don’t get it, and you can’t blame the talent.

Making a good feature length movie on a 14 million dollar budget isn’t easy.

601. Trekbilly - November 10, 2013

Why all the fixation on this Cornish guy? He HASN’T GOTTEN THE JOB YET people!! LOL!!

602. Trekbilly - November 10, 2013

It’s a rumor of his CONSIDERATION as a POSSIBLE director. LOL!!!

603. dmduncan - November 10, 2013

JJ also has a LOT of people who make HIM look good. When he doesn’t have good people blocking for him, he doesn’t look so good. Undercovers was mindless. Revolution, meh. Is it even still on? And I have no interest in watching Almost Human, even with Karl Urban starring.

The only recent show that has captured my attention is Sleepy Hollow. I haven’t even been able to stick with Agents of Shield, and I’m a Whedon fan.

604. Basement Blogger - November 10, 2013

@ 600 @ 597

Dmduncan, again watch the two hour pilot to Lost and his pilot to Alias. If you haven’t seen them, you would see the excellent talent that Abrams had. Cornish’s stuff before Attack the Block? Some TV and making of docs. Abrams was already very successful as a guy who created TV shows and directed them for large American audiences. His directing work for Alias and Lost demonstrated a cinematic touch. This is why Paramount and Cruise choose him.

I’m not being too dismissive of Joe Cornish. Again, he could be the second coming of Stanley Kubrick. Assuming it’s true about him getting the gig, Paramount is asking fans to trust a director who is going to be cheaper than say Quentin Tarantino to take control of the Enterprise for the fiftieth anniversary. It’s not thinking big. Disney is for Star Wars. I think Star Trek fans deserve the same treatment.

@ 597

Well, if Cornish is not a fan of fast cutting, then I like that. Getting tired of directors treating us like teenagers with ADHD. As much as I acknowledge Abram’s talent, I’m not a fan of his editing philosophy and the camera gymnastics, especially hand-held camera shots. I almost threw my popcorn at the father-son scene where the kid confronts his dad in Super 8. Not needed for a scene that already worked.

605. MJ -- THE GRAND RETURN !!! - November 10, 2013

Hey dude, never heard of you nor seen you post here before, yet you act like you have known me for a long time and have some axe to grind with me?

Here’s a thought — why don’t you go somewhere and grow a pair of balls, and then come back here like real man who has the guts to post here with your “regular identity” when you have an issue with me.

*******************************************************
583. Denivian Slime Devil – November 9, 2013
575: MJ you are so gay for Shat.

Even at this stage in his life, he looks better, is much sharper than you.
and is well liked as opposed to your delusions

606. MJ -- THE GRAND RETURN !!! - November 10, 2013

605. MJ — THE GRAND RETURN !!! – November 10, 2013
Hey dude, never heard of you nor seen you post here before, yet you act like you have known me for a long time and have some axe to grind with me?

Here’s a thought — why don’t you go somewhere and grow a pair, and then come back here as your real self — and then post directly to me as your normal ID instead of the silly “Denevian Slime Devil” unnecessary subterfuge?

*******************************************************
583. Denivian Slime Devil – November 9, 2013
575: MJ you are so gaay for Shat.

Even at this stage in his life, he looks better, is much sharper than you.
and is well liked as opposed to your delusions

607. Marja - November 10, 2013

605 MJ, and he can’t even spell Denebian Slime Devil.

608. I am to Smurfy - November 11, 2013

598
Yeah maybe watch the whole movie an get back to us.
hate posts where people judge something without even bothering to watch the whole thing.

609. Trekboi - November 11, 2013

Ahh I see the site is dead again.
Not as anoying as when Into Darkness was in the Cinemas…

610. I am not Herbert - November 11, 2013

why would anyone from the Marvel bullpen switch to nuTrek? =P

Cornish will be great (at Marvel)!

Can’t wait for “Ant-Man”! =D

611. I am not Herbert - November 11, 2013

MJ — THE EMOTICON-HATING TROLL !!!:

…not sure who you are spouting your hatred at now… =(

…please just go away?? thx! =)

612. I am not Herbert - November 11, 2013

dmduncan: FULL AGREEMENT – JJ has clout, but is lacking in artistry…

JJ is good at spectacle (eye-candy)

BobOrci (et al) is good at mindless pandering (ego-stroking)

only a JJ-boot-licker would take this job…

time to clean house! time for a whole new production team! please!

613. I am not Herbert - November 11, 2013

ok… now i’m seeing it:

JJ took the PERFECT opportunity to abandon this… soulless sinking ship… =(

leaving boborci in charge… so, the new director would be working for HIM…

so, unless SOMEONE at the studio (HINT!) intervenes… (PLEASE!!)

we are in for: “Nu-Trek 3: The Final Outrage” =(

…soon to suck at a theater near you! IN IMAX 3D!! =D

614. Dave H - November 11, 2013

TO : M A T T W R I G H T

Please see above. I am not Herbert is trying to monopolize the thread here now. Request you intervention immediately please.

615. I am not Herbert - November 11, 2013

it’s all yours, my friends! =)

616. Dave H - November 11, 2013

Matt,

Given I am not Herbert’s content in post 611 (i.e. why would he be responding to MJ there unless he was the sockpuppet?), I would recommend you also check to see if I am Not Herbert was sock-puppeting yesterday as “Deievian Slime Devel” (see post 583).

Matt, remember, Antony’s punishment for sock-puppeting was a ban from his site, so this would give you the legal and moral backing to do what 95% of us want to see happen here — banning the I am not Herbert asinine-moron from this site forever.

Thanks Matt

617. I am not Herbert - November 11, 2013

Dave H: FULL AGREEMENT! (at least as far as “sock-puppeting” goes…)

LL&P =)

618. dmduncan - November 11, 2013

604. Basement Blogger – November 10, 2013

Yeah I’m not arguing that JJ doesn’t have skills. I’m arguing that he’s not the only one who does. If this were a world where every filmmaker was in total control of his own destiny then I’d say JJ is where he is because he’s the best, but that is not this world. JJ makes brilliant decisions. He also makes idiotic ones.

I’m hoping for Star Trek to get a more thoughtful director. Someone who’s been less privileged, perhaps, and one who’s less convinced that his touch is golden.

The thing is that JJ has put his stamp on things. I’ve never been a fan of JJ’s design choices; whoever follows JJ is probably going to be stuck with those sets, so the fun of making YOUR movie by okaying YOUR designs probably won’t be there for the new guy as much.

619. I am not Herbert - November 11, 2013

…thus the need for a “JJ-bootlicker” ;-)

(or boborci-bootlicker, as the case may be…) =(

620. K-7 - November 11, 2013

Dave,

Yes, this looks very suspicious. Here are the three posts string in question here:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

583. Denivian Slime Devil – November 9, 2013

“MJ you are so gaay for Shat. Even at this stage in his life, he looks better, is much sharper than you and is well liked as opposed to your delusions.”

– So here we have the personal attack on MJ from this supposedly “new poster”, and the shameful use of homophobic language

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

605. MJ — THE GRAND RETURN !!! – November 10, 2013

“Hey dude, never heard of you nor seen you post here before, yet you act like you have known me for a long time and have some axe to grind with me? Here’s a thought — why don’t you go somewhere and grow a pair, and then come back here as your real self — and then post directly to me as your normal ID instead of the silly “Denevian Slime Devil” unnecessary subterfuge?”

- So here, MJ questions how this new poster seems to not only know about him, but seems to have some axe to grind with him. MJ suggests for this “fake poster” to be direct and use his normal call sign here when he posts.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

611. I am not Herbert – November 11, 2013

“MJ — THE EMOTICON-HATING TROLL !!!:
…not sure who you are spouting your hatred at now… =(
…please just go away?? thx! =)”

- So here, only several posts after MJ noticed the likely “fake poster,” I am not Herbert responds directly to MJ — as if I am not Herbert felt he needed to respond to a post directed at the Denivian Slime Devel sock-puppet. This is very illuminating.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Conclusion: “I am not Herbert” = “Denivian Slime Devil”

621. Dave H - November 11, 2013

You seem very confident, I am not Herbert. I suspect then that you used a different computer or different network to log into when you played your Dinivian Slime Devil character.

You are not fooling anyone here.

——————————————————-
617. I am not Herbert – November 11, 2013
Dave H: FULL AGREEMENT! (at least as far as “sock-puppeting” goes…)

LL&P =)

622. I am not Herbert - November 11, 2013

unfortunately, nuTrek IS JJ’s (abandoned) “vision”… =(

…only a lackey would come in to “complete someone else’s “vision”

it really IS high time for new brass at Starfleet HQ…

623. K-7 - November 11, 2013

“…only a lackey would come in to “complete someone else’s “vision” ”

But you are doing such a great version yourself here of Sesame Street’s and Romper Room’s vision for discourse.

A-hole!

624. I am not Herbert - November 11, 2013

well, seagulls are circling… i’ll try to take my leave now…

let’s support our veterans by healing and caring for them,

and ending our war-mongering! PEACE AND LOVE!! =D

LL&P =)

625. Red Dead Ryan - November 11, 2013

I am to Smurfy,

I didn’t say I hated the movie, Einstein. I said I watched an eight-and-a-half minute long clip that I feel was merely okay. Sheesh!

And I agree with the others here who think that Denevian Slime Devil = I am not Herbert.

626. Garak's Pride - November 11, 2013

Dear Matt Wright:

Please step in here. I am not Herbert is out of out of control.

Thank you!

627. Red Shirt Diaries - November 11, 2013

Re: Matt Wright

I agree with the others. I am not Herbert is pretty much ruining the site experience here for me.

628. I am not Herbert - November 11, 2013

I actually think the current “looser” censoring here is a good thing… =)

being attacked is a small price to pay for more open discourse… ;-)

I salute (most of) the fans here who, for the most part are polite enough… =)

…and I thank everyone for keeping it within reasonable limits, if not civil.

629. Disco Spock - November 11, 2013

I guess I must be an attacker, troll, impolite person, because I too am so fatigued with seeing intelligent discourse on this site get made a mockery of by this I am not Herbert character.

I am not Herbert, stop being such a jerk, stop taunting people, stop insulting all the Trek producers….just please GROW UP. And you ridiculously largess use of emoticons — well that predominantly comes across as smart-ass sarcasm that is talking down to people and making fun of them.

You are ruining this site for many of us, guy. This is getting as bad as the William Bradley era.

While I don’t agree with those who want to ban you from this site, I will tell you that you have recently taken much of the enjoyment and fun out of participating in this site for me, personally.

ENOUGH PLEASE !!!

630. Disco Spock - November 11, 2013

I too am so fatigued with seeing intelligent discourse on this site get made a mockery of by this I am not Herbert character.

I am not Herbert, stop being such a jerrk, stop taunting people, stop insulting all the Trek producers….just please GROW UP. And you ridiculously largess use of emoticons — well that predominantly comes across as smart-alik sarcasm that is talking down to people and making fun of them.

You are ruining this site for many of us, guy. This is getting as bad as the William Bradley era.

While I don’t agree with those who want to ban you from this site, I will tell you that you have recently taken much of the enjoyment and fun out of participating in this site for me, personally.

ENOUGH PLEASE !!!

631. I am not Herbert (retired) - November 11, 2013

whatever, dude…

632. I am not Herbert - November 11, 2013

Ender’s Game is ground under THOR’S RIGHTEOUS HEEL!! =D

…people are getting better choices… ;-)

(looking forward to Pacific Rim from netflix) ;-)

633. I am not Herbert - November 11, 2013

…yeah, you’d BETTER get your money out of the back-end, on an Orci production… LOL!

634. MJ -- THE GRAND RETURN !!! - November 11, 2013

MATT,

I am not Herbert is now going viral with his multi-string posts again and Bob Orci hatred.

Matt, you really need to reel him in, dude. This is getting out of hand, and many people now have been legimitately clailming to you that he is wrecking this enjyment of this site for them.

635. MJ -- THE GRAND RETURN !!! - November 11, 2013

@632.

Hey dumbass, Pacific Rim made about $410M wordwide, and was a very good movie. Your facts are wrong, and you have bad taste as well. Otherwise, great post, Einstein.

636. Garak's Pride - November 11, 2013

#633 / I am not Herbert

“out of the back-end”

This phrase fits you, since you are so completely full of shit all of the time.

637. Red Shirt Diaries - November 11, 2013

Matt Wright,

It’s high time for you to take some disciplinary action on I am not Herbert.

638. DiscoSpock - November 11, 2013

Agree with everyone — this not-Herbert guy is ruining my experience here.

:-(

639. MJ -- THE GRAND RETURN !!! - November 11, 2013

Of course I am not Herbert is Denivian Slime Devil. Look how quickly he responded to my post, and he was the only one who responded — and my post was only directed a “Denivian Slime Devil.”

Fortunately, most cheaters and slammers on the internet are not very intelligent. He may have covered his IP address tracks, but his instant response to that post of mine shows that he was the one with the fake identity.
____________________________________________
621. Dave H – November 11, 2013
You seem very confident, I am not Herbert. I suspect then that you used a different computer or different network to log into when you played your Dinivian Slime Devil character.

You are not fooling anyone here.

——————————————————-
617. I am not Herbert – November 11, 2013
Dave H: FULL AGREEMENT! (at least as far as “sock-puppeting” goes…)

LL&P =)

640. MJ -- THE GRAND RETURN !!! - November 11, 2013

Well done, K-7. I agree with everything that you and Dave have assessed here. Thanks

________________________________________
620. K-7 – November 11, 2013
Dave,

Yes, this looks very suspicious. Here are the three posts string in question here:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

583. Denivian Slime Devil – November 9, 2013

“MJ you are so gaay for Shat. Even at this stage in his life, he looks better, is much sharper than you and is well liked as opposed to your delusions.”

– So here we have the personal attack on MJ from this supposedly “new poster”, and the shameful use of homophobic language

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

605. MJ — THE GRAND RETURN !!! – November 10, 2013

“Hey dude, never heard of you nor seen you post here before, yet you act like you have known me for a long time and have some axe to grind with me? Here’s a thought — why don’t you go somewhere and grow a pair, and then come back here as your real self — and then post directly to me as your normal ID instead of the silly “Denevian Slime Devil” unnecessary subterfuge?”

- So here, MJ questions how this new poster seems to not only know about him, but seems to have some axe to grind with him. MJ suggests for this “fake poster” to be direct and use his normal call sign here when he posts.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

611. I am not Herbert – November 11, 2013

“MJ — THE EMOTICON-HATING TROLL !!!:
…not sure who you are spouting your hatred at now… =(
…please just go away?? thx! =)”

- So here, only several posts after MJ noticed the likely “fake poster,” I am not Herbert responds directly to MJ — as if I am not Herbert felt he needed to respond to a post directed at the Denivian Slime Devel sock-puppet. This is very illuminating.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Conclusion: “I am not Herbert” = “Denivian Slime Devil”

641. I am not Herbert - November 11, 2013

NO! I’m “looking forward to Pacific Rim from netflix”! REALLY!!

I LOVE GdT!!! =)

he would make FANTASTIC STAR TREK!!! =D

642. MJB - November 11, 2013

Honestly, I think the best thing we can do is just ignore Herbie until Matt can chime in. The moron seems to feed on hatred.

643. I am not Herbert - November 11, 2013

I will never be motivated by hate! (i do not feed off of it)

…I allow it to flow, like water off a duck… ;-)

LL&P =)

644. K-7 - November 11, 2013

It’s Duck Season…

645. Bill Peters - November 11, 2013

I think that we need to Accpet who ever we get for the 50th and support Trek so we can get more Trek, I think that IDIC is something we need to apply to the new movies cause, these movies are part of Trek and have brought new people to Trek.

646. Dave H - November 11, 2013

#642.

Tell you what. Admit to us all that you were sock-puppeting as Devivian Slime Devil, and then I will grant you some respect and courtesy here,

647. Dave H - November 11, 2013

Yes, this is probably the best we can do for now.

Matt, where the heck are you? This guy is out of control!

***********************************
641. MJB – November 11, 2013
Honestly, I think the best thing we can do is just ignore Herbie until Matt can chime in. The moron seems to feed on hatred.

648. I am not Herbert - November 11, 2013

…we COULD have really cool conversations about real spaceships, other races in our galaxy, subtle energetics, human history and future, etc, etc…

but all you haters, who are supposedly Star Trek fans, don’t want to hear about the very things that Star Trek is really about… (shakes head)…

but whatever! quit yer bitchin’ and take it where YOU want it to go… ;-)

649. Garak's Pride - November 11, 2013

Oh great, now the “haters” name calling from this guy.

Matt, where are you?

This guy is name calling, insulting Bob Orci, using sock-puppets, talking down to everyone…etc. etc.

Matt, need your presence here — I am not Herbert is destroying the conversations here.

650. DiscoSpock - November 11, 2013

I am not Hebert,

Guy, can you just take a 24-hour self-imposed time-out here. You really area creating a complete mess here. Everyone is focused on you instead of Star Trek.

Be cool, and take a day off — for you own good as well as the rest of us here.

651. K-7 - November 11, 2013

Man, this I am not Herbert guy just never let’s it go….ENOUGH ALREADY !!!

652. I am not Herbert - November 11, 2013

jeez, give up on crying to mommy, already! =P

653. MJ -- THE GRAND RETURN !!! - November 11, 2013

@649 “Guy, can you just take a 24-hour self-imposed time-out here. You really are creating a complete mess here. Everyone is focused on you instead of Star Trek.”

not-Herbert,

This would be good advice here to let things calm down for a bit, or we might all risk Matt shutting this thread down.

How about it? Respectfully, would you be willing to take a minor 24-hour break here to let the discourse get back on track, and to not be so focused on you?

654. Ahmed - November 11, 2013

@ 646. Dave H – November 11, 2013

“Matt, where the heck are you? This guy is out of control!”

Unlike AP, Matt has a full time job in the real world. He can’t be here all the time.

@I am not Herbert & Everyone,

how about a “ceasefire” for a day, lets everyone calm down. Meanwhile, lets talk about other issue, shall we ?

655. Ahmed - November 11, 2013

@652. MJ

“This would be good advice here to let things calm down for a bit, or we might all risk Matt shutting this thread down.

How about it? Respectfully, would you be willing to take a minor 24-hour break here to let the discourse get back on track, and to not be so focused on you?”

I will second that.

656. M-ofo-J or Lord Garth on drugs - November 11, 2013

624 seagulls: you mean hypocritical mj vpn clones/cameloid/sockpuppet geek(s).

657. I am not Herbert - November 11, 2013

ok, so trying to divert:

there seems to be a very vocal faction here who just wants to shout-down any opinion which is pro-UFO, shall we say… (among other things…)

is there anyone here who is “pro-UFO”? (or thinks progressively for that matter?)

If not, please explain why not? (other than generic attempts to belittle)

…just my attempt to provide a topic… ;-) what do you think? (besides hate)

658. I am not Herbert (retired) - November 11, 2013

crickets…

chirping…

chirping…

659. Marja - November 11, 2013

624 Herbert, Well here’s a sentiment of yours I can agree with:

let’s support our veterans by healing and caring for them

——————————————

E V E R Y B O D Y – Please watch the language especially toward each other, even if you disagree. Please let’s try to be civil and avoid the attacks, lest we get another streak of dissing and counterattacks and offense and defense.

I’m retired military so I can cuss a blue streak with the best [worst?] of ‘em, but we needn’t do it here, okay?

660. Marja - November 11, 2013

There were some great ideas above about waiting and seeing what Cornish can do; though he’s “untried” on a major motion picture project, it seems that his artistry may come in in some of the direction. If he is chosen, I hope this will be true, and that he may take things in a slightly different direction – there is admittedly only so much he can do, depending upon how much control JJ has over the process.

Agreed, the art direction is probably decided, but ya never know, he may just reduce the blinding intensity of the bridge lighting! I can dream can’t I? Why rebuild the sets, they’re fine, yes, a bit Jobs-y, Apple-ish on the Bridge, but overall I feel it’s a beautiful set. My quibble is the brightness.

I believe the person who said JJ has his “stamp” on the art direction, but it’s just possible he may listen to reason from the on-site director.
——————————————–

As for the Herbert issue, perhaps it is best we all set our phasers on “ignore”. [I did feel obliged to support the "heal the veterans" statement though.]

661. I am not Herbert - November 11, 2013

Marja: I thank you, and I salute you! =)

you actually NEED the blinding light =P

otherwise, you see how stupidly fake the design is… =(

…but I like the way you think ;-)

662. I am not Herbert - November 11, 2013

btw: how do you do the bold & italic text? thx! =)

copy / paste?

663. DiscoSpock - November 11, 2013

I am not Herbert,

Multiple reasonable people here have practically begged you to take a 1-day timeout.

Please cease and desist. You latest posts are not helping.

Matt,

Please note that Ahmed, MJ, Dave and I have been trying to get not-Herbert to calm down here, but without much success. He does not seem to listen to reason?

:-(

664. I am not Herbert - November 11, 2013

calm is my middle name.

u just want to muzzle me… =(

can YOU talk about anything else??

665. Red Shirt Diaries - November 11, 2013

All, I would be willing to match I am not Herbert and not post here for 24 hours if he would be willing to meet us all halfway and agree to do the same.

666. Garak's Pride - November 11, 2013

**** ATTN: MATT WRIGHT ****

PLEASE

STEP

IN –

THIS

IS

SPIRALING

DOWNHILL

RAPIDLY

667. Matt Wright - November 11, 2013

Christ you guys, we’re done here. And I am not Herbert, come on guy I’ve tried to be nice about this, but seriously stop it. You’re done for a while.

Everyone else, stop trying police him. Just leave it alone, stop responding, stop trying to get the last word.

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