Saldana Doesn’t Want Spock/Uhura Breakup In Star Trek 2016 + Zoe In Women’s Health UK Naked Issue | TrekMovie.com
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Saldana Doesn’t Want Spock/Uhura Breakup In Star Trek 2016 + Zoe In Women’s Health UK Naked Issue July 31, 2014

by TrekMovie.com Staff , Filed under: Celebrity,ST: Into Darkness Sequel , trackback

zoeuk

Zoe Saldana is doing the publicity tour for Guardians of the Galaxy, which opens this weekend – and she has fielded a question on her thoughts about Spock and Uhura’s relationship in the next Star Trek movie. Details on that below plus check images of Zoe from Women’s Health UK’s new ‘naked’ issue and more.

Saldana on Spock/Uhura

During her Guardians of the Galaxy junket interviews, IGN asked the actress about the future of her relationship with Spock

Would you like Uhura to break up with Spock and just be part of the team again?
I don’t know. They have such a special bond. It would be nice to see Uhura do more stuff, but I feel that JJ [Abrams] and his team of writers did such a great job in the sequel and I am pretty sure for the third installment we will see [Uhura] be more hands on as well. It would be heartbreaking for me to know that they would break up.

Watch the clip below.

 

POLL

Do you agree with Zoe or should it be over for Spock and Uhura.

POLL

Should Spock & Uhura Break Up For Star Trek 2016?

View Results

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Zoe Goes Naked For Women’s Health UK

Recently we reported that Zoe is now pregnant and she has been showing a bit at the Guardians of the Galaxy publicity events, but the September issue of Women’s Health UK has some photos of a pre-baby bump Zoe in her birthday suit. Zoe adorns the cover of their September ‘naked’ issue and Women’s Health has given us some high-res images. Check those out below.

zoewhuk-01
zoewhuk-02 zoewhuk-03
(Photos: John Wright courtesy of Women’s Health)

The Zoe Saldana interview (read excerpt online) launches the Women’s Health Body For Life campaign in the September Naked issue of Women’s Health – on sale now and available as a digital edition.

More Zoe From Guardians Publicity Tour

Here are some fun bits with Zoe from her publicity tour, starting with the actress on Late Night with David Letterman talking about what possible colors she may be taking on in the future.

Zoe explains how he did some real damage to Guardians co-star Chris Pratt on ABC’s GMA.

Saldana and Guardians co-stars talk on AOL about how she passed the time during her long stints in the make-up chair.

Guardians of the Galaxy opens August 1st. Early buzz on the film is very positive with a current Rotten Tomatoes score of 91%. THR is predicting a $65M domestic opening weekend, which would make it one of the top August openings of all time.

Comments

1. IDIC Lives! - July 31, 2014

Do Spock and Uhura have such a “special bond?”

It seems like just another love affair.

It has, however, profoundly changed the basic essence of Spock and how he functions in a mostly human Star Fleet. He is now just another human guy.

The 23rd Century is no doubt full of inter-species bondings and good for that! S/U are not the first and not unique in that way. Spock is the result of inter-species bonding of at least 35 years previous, am sure that freedom has moved forward many times with many couples of different species,. gender (or same gender) and what not..

Spock embraced his Vulcan half in order to be the individual he is–or used to be.

2. G - July 31, 2014

I don’t want to actually SEE the “breakup” in the next movie. I just want it done with. That ridiculous relationship should just be completely forgotten, altogether. Like it never even happened. It should never be spoken of again.

3. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - July 31, 2014

I certainly don’t want to SEE the breakup in the next movie, either. That’s because I don’t want there to be/have been a breakup in the first place. I don’t need any Spock/Uhura relationship ‘drama’ in my Star Trek, but I’m perfectly happy for the movie to show that they are still in a mature relationship. I fail to see how that relationship, when handled in a mature way and showing the characters as more than 1-dimensional individuals, would detract from whatever overall story arc forms the next movie.

4. Jemini - July 31, 2014

judging from the patterns I have noticed in this site from the past, I had a feeling you’d post this LOL (for the same reasons other interviews are not posted ;) thank God I don’t need to rely on trekmovie to find new interviews and stuff, if I did I’d only read 50% of them..)

what a stupid question to make. Uhura is more part of the team than some of the secondary male characters, the relationship in no way makes her less an officer.
I love Zoe’s answer anyway

5. Jemini - July 31, 2014

1. IDIC Lives! – July 31, 2014

“Do Spock and Uhura have such a “special bond?”

maybe not for you, but for the characters and the actors playing them yes ;)

“It seems like just another love affair.”

two people ‘dating’ from 2257 (following the comics) to 2261 and ongoing and whose relationship survived the loss of his mother and home planet, not to mention them struggling with the fact that they’re an interracial/interspecies couple is hardly the kind of relationship that’d I’d call a ‘love affair’
Last time I looked, they were in an exclusive emotional relationship and none of them was cheating a wife or boyfriend/girlfriend either.

“It has, however, profoundly changed the basic essence of Spock and how he functions in a mostly human Star Fleet. He is now just another human guy.”

your priorities should be checked a bit.
I guess you should ask the writers, then, to delete Kirk/Spock friendship as well since he’s more OOC with him than with his own girlfriend. At least he never cried or tried to kill her.
Unless you think that him trying to kill someone because he insulted his feelings for his mother and then him crying, screaming and acting homicidal when one movie later the same person dies, even though he hardly considered him his friend (or knew him for that matter) and he didn’t even cry when his own mother died, is just the most in character (not to mention vulcan) and controlled Spock you ever saw.

6. Jemini - July 31, 2014

3. ObsessiveStarTrekFan – July 31, 2014

if these two break up some people here will have nothing to talk about lol

it’s just delicious and beyond amusing that a subplot romance that takes like.. how many minutes of screen time? makes certain people here so worked out and obsessed against it. You gotta wonder why and the answer might be quite interesting.
I mean, they destroyed vulcan, killed amanda, killed kirk’s dad, killed pike.. created a whole new reality, made khan a white british dude.. and certain people’s main priority is always and constantly complaining about two characters loving each other.
I, for one, never had the habit to focus my attention over stuff I don’t like or I’d rather ignore.

7. Curious Cadet - July 31, 2014

@6. Jemini,
“I, for one, never had the habit to focus my attention over stuff I don’t like or I’d rather ignore.”

Unfortunately with Abrams Trek, that leaves very little to embrace. ;-)

Not to be argumentative, but if people don’t express their displeasure with things they don’t like, or merely ignore them, won’t the powers-that-be just keep serving up the same stuff?

8. bassmaster22 - July 31, 2014

This should be dealth with the same way Worf’s return to the Enterprise in Insurrection was dealth with; You hear the beginning of an explanation, then the camera swings to something else and it’s never mentioned again.
Really, who cares. This is Star Trek not the Kardashians. I couldn’t be any less interested in what these two are doing personally and if they spend more than ten seconds addressing it in the movie, it only takes away from what will probably already be a struggling plot rehash.

9. bassmaster22 - July 31, 2014

Sorry, dealt not dealth. lol. Looks like I invented a new word (?)

10. IDIC Lives! - July 31, 2014

#9 bassmaster22

You dealth with ye old S/U romance in excellent fashion.

11. Nony - July 31, 2014

Why did IGN let such an ignorant person conduct interviews?

12. Jemini - July 31, 2014

7. Curious Cadet – July 31, 2014

“Unfortunately with Abrams Trek, that leaves very little to embrace. ;-)”

and yet, no one forces us to watch or like their trek, right?
isn’t making it so much talked about a way to make it more popular? I find that contradictory for people that claim to not like it…
just saying

judging by the numbers (=how much the movies earned and the positive critics) if the haters in this site were the majority and not just a vocal minority, then I’d have to believe that these people are pretty masochists because while they claim to hate the reboot it seems they all went watching the movies and buy the dvds.. and waste their time in this site commenting every article.

“Not to be argumentative, but if people don’t express their displeasure with things they don’t like, or merely ignore them, won’t the powers-that-be just keep serving up the same stuff?”

it depends. If you’re too fixated and obsessed about one detail that isn’t even that much part of the story, to the point that every poll about this pair in this site have most of the votes since 2009, it begs the question why a fictional couple hit some people’s fragile nerve so much when there are many problematic things and bigger plot points that are ignored instead.

Personally, I think that no one would waste so much time and energy over something they don’t like unless they have an agenda because that thing clashes with something they want …

” won’t the powers-that-be just keep serving up the same stuff?”

you are right, in fact the reason why some people hate this pair so hardcore has everything to with what they want the writers to ‘serve’ them…
the problem is that what most of these people want instead of S/U will never realistically be canon …. if THAT were to happen, some of you here would have a bigger nervous breakdown than the one you had in 2009 when S/U were made a thing lol

13. Jemini - July 31, 2014

11. Nony – July 31, 2014

Why did IGN let such an ignorant person conduct interviews?


lol I didn’t want to be that mean but yeah…
I don’t know what she expected Zoe to say there.
Misleading question and quite passive aggressive against Uhura. Zoe has a bit of a ‘what’ moment too, especially since she was supposed to answer questions about Gamora and guardians of the galaxy…
maybe the interviewer is a reboot hater but they still find it more interesting as a topic than Guardians of The Galaxy (that, btw, is having pretty positive reviews. Can’t wait to see Zoe green!)

14. dswynne - July 31, 2014

The S/U relationship should end only if it serves as an element of the story in ST3, and not because certain fans of the franchise wants it to. Otherwise, it would seem forced, especially since the relationship has been built up for the past two movies.

As an aside, I do hope that Dr. McCoy gets a chance to have a relationship of his own, maybe dating a certain Dr. Carol Marcus? After all, five years in deep space IS a long time to be w/o a relationship…especially w/o the use of a holodeck to, well, you know. Heh.

15. Curious Cadet - July 31, 2014

@1. IDIC Lives!,
“Spock embraced his Vulcan half in order to be the individual he is–or used to be.”

Spock was full of Vulcan pride. That’s who the character was, battling with his human nature. Now, he almost shows open contempt for it, and appears virtually Human in behavior if not appearance.

I understand why Kirk would be completely different than his Prime universe counterpart as a result of Nero’s arrival, but I can’t see anything that explains Spock. By all appearances, Spock should have turned out exactly the same as in the Prime Universe. Yet he seems the most radically different. The death of his mother certainly would contribute to his inner conflict, but he seems to have lost all interest in controlling his human side, and that’s just not the character.

Perhaps Orci is trying to show us with Spock/Uhura the side of Spock that gave us such interesting glimpses of Spock’s personality with Leila, but even that relationship was unrequited — Spock simply would not allow himself to return a lover’s feelings or show her any emotion. In fact that would be a far more interesting relationship to see between Spock and Uhura on screen. I never once believed Spock had any feelings for Christine Chapel, but to watch him struggle with someone for whom he truly cares, now that would be interesting and in character. Open mouth kisses in front of the Captain are dull.

Actually I think I give Orci too much credit. the Spock/Uhura relationship is likely there for one reason … To attract a large female audience, the kind that made Titanic a massive hit for Paramount, and one that typically eschews Trek. But if TOS teaches us anything, Original formula Spock, was the most popular character among female fans. Has that much changed?

16. TrekMadeMeWonder - July 31, 2014

I can’t wait to see what our crazy-in-love Vulcan does next. (sarcasm)

17. Commodore Adams - July 31, 2014

Who votes no? Its an alternate universe, let them fall in love. Are you really that petty that you’ll stand in the way of love, even if it is fictional.

Pathetic!

18. Jemini - July 31, 2014

15. Curious Cadet – July 31, 2014

“Spock was full of Vulcan pride. That’s who the character was, battling with his human nature. Now, he almost shows open contempt for it, and appears virtually Human in behavior if not appearance.”

Spock is half human and half vulcan. It wouldn’t make any sense for him to deny a side of himself because that would mean he’s trying to be who he isn’t. Even less it would make sense for him to hate his human side that to him probably represents his mother, whom he had always loved.

They showed it to you in these movies especially the first. He tried to be vulcan to fit in that society because he grew up there, but he never really apologized for being human. He wanted to please his father and get accepted by him, he embraced the vulcan culture.. but never at the expense of his mom whom he loved and defended.
It’s symbolic that when the vulcan bullies attack him, it’s them calling his mother a wh**e that sends him over the edge, not them calling his father a traitor. Yet, later, he will somehow imply to his dad that he reacted that way to defend him…

and vulcans do have even more emotions than the humans that’s why they control them.
How can you see the struggle between his two sides if the character is never challenged?

besides, using your logic then even Tos Spock should have never been Kirk’s friend. THAT is an emotion too.
can’t have the cake and eat it too by putting romantic relationships on a different level to the platonic friendships even when both have, for the most part, the same effect on the character and won’t make him the rebotic vulcan you want him to be.

perhaps the reason why the friendships gets a free pass is because some people here only want him to be defined by Kirk, who is the character who must be the star for them and they feel threatened by Spock having his own subplot that doesn’t have to revolve around the friendship.

“I understand why Kirk would be completely different than his Prime universe counterpart as a result of Nero’s arrival, but I can’t see anything that explains Spock. By all appearances, Spock should have turned out exactly the same as in the Prime Universe. Yet he seems the most radically different. The death of his mother certainly would contribute to his inner conflict, but he seems to have lost all interest in controlling his human side, and that’s just not the character. ”

here’s the thing: you don’t really know how Spock was in the prime universe because that (his time before the enterprise) wasn’t showed to you either. He wasn’t the protagonist either and he didn’t have the character development that Kirk had. Spock and McCoy were just Kirk’s friends. You weren’t allowed to know that much about them beyond that and you weren’t allowed to know them the way you know a protagonist.

Either way, there is nothing there suggesting that the two Spocks must be more identical than the other characters. It’s illogical and mathematically impossible that they must have lived the same exact life in every detail. Look at Chekov, he might as well be a different person since he wasn’t even born the same year his counterpart did!
Besides, you already have some differences. The enterprise here was launched later, therefore Spock and Pike don’t have that 10 years they had in tos where they worked together before Spock worked for Kirk.
Here Spock was teaching at the academy and the crew we know from tos was assembled sooner. He also met Uhura sooner and probably under completely different circumstances his counterpart did, later, aboard the enterprise.

and if all of that wasn’t enough, vulcan got destroyed, his mom died and he probably has a completely different relationship with his father as well because in tos Sarek never admitted to him that he loved Amanda so that part, for Spock, was never resolved (they actually didn’t speak to each other for 20 years)

reboot Spock is, also, more or less movie era tos Spock who was a tad more accepting of his feelings compared to series. Here they accelerate his emotional development. To say that they don’t show you why he’s different is, honestly, quite disingenuous. You get plenty of hints.
The sole concept of different reality should, alone, explain some things. We wouldn’t call them different if they weren’t, well, different.

19. Ensign Ricky - July 31, 2014

Honestly, I would rather they just transfer her off the Enterprise entirely.

20. Robert Bishop - July 31, 2014

Can we just pretend it never happened? Everyone knows they just wrote the Spock/Uhura nonsense to attract mindless female fans to the franchise for financial sake. Ever notice those who actually like the S/U relationship are mostly women? There’s a reason for that. Why not Chekhov/Uhura or Scotty/Uhura like Trek5? Why destroy one of the fundamental aspects of Spock? Oh right, to attract the Kardashian crowd to the theatre.

21. Patroclus - July 31, 2014

Badly worded Poll question.

“Do you agree with Zoe
OR
should it be over for Spock and Uhura.”

Which is it? What do you want us to answer? I know you’re probably looking for the second phrase, but the question should really be more clear if you want the most accurate poll responses.

22. dswynne - July 31, 2014

@18 (Ensign Ricky): Yes, because we just can’t have Spock be in a relationship with anyone…

23. Patroclus - July 31, 2014

Never mind. I just saw the latter question.

24. dswynne - July 31, 2014

BTW, I’m surprised nobody has commented on the magazine that Ms. Saldana appeared in…

25. Jemini - July 31, 2014

24. dswynne – July 31, 2014

“BTW, I’m surprised nobody has commented on the magazine that Ms. Saldana appeared in…”

LOL
so disappointed, I thought that the most ‘intelligent’ audience of this site was the male one ;)

Zoe Saldana is beautiful. She’s naturally slim but her body is feminine. I’m seeing a lot of new pictures of her recently and the added curves make her even more gorgeous.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2711463/Zoe-Saldana-shows-blossoming-baby-belly-chic-frock-promotes-Guardians-Of-The-Galaxy.html

take note moms-to-be!

26. Jemini - July 31, 2014

20. Robert Bishop – July 31, 2014

It doesn’t seem to me, though, that it was the ‘mindless female fans’ or the S/U supporters, for that matter, that ridiculously argued with one of the writers in this very site ;)
Nor they are the ones who seem to believe that they can tell the writers how they must do their job, and then have a temper tantrum and insult them everytime they don’t like something.
it also is not ‘the mindless female fans’ or S/U fans (generic and including the opposite sex now. because if you are being sexist it doesn’t mean that I have to be too) that gave to the star trek fandom a bad reputation as one of the worst and most entitled fandom ever.

so I dunno, your offense might be a compliment to the female audience if the comparison and default for ‘sanity’ and ‘intelligence’ is what you guys are doing in this site since 2009 and for something that you all claim to hate anyway.

27. Nony - July 31, 2014

The first movie is set up so that Kirk follows in his father’s footsteps in his career and Spock follows in his father’s in his personal life. It’s fairly clear.

I mean, the precedent for Spock/Uhura or Spock/anyone is there in TOS. And people tend to forget that Spock *exists* because Sarek, the most logical, outwardly emotionless, self-possessed full-blooded Vulcan ever to Vulcan, fell in love with a human woman and married her. He didn’t have to. He just did. Both Spocks grew up with that example, and in the alternate timeline, he just happens to have been nudged in a direction that led to him trying out a relationship with a human and liking it.

28. Phil - July 31, 2014

I’m not particularly emotionally invested in this, one way or another, but I’d vote to let it continue – TOS did set the stage that a Vulcan/Human relationship could occur, so if it contributes to a good story, there’s no harm in letting it run it’s course.

29. IDIC Lives! - July 31, 2014

Was it a Freudian thing? The writers destroyed the Spock-who-was.

And so, they also must destroy Vulcan with a flick of their pen. It was such a (pardonne) — fascinating— complex, fleshed-out culture which had been shown in various Prime Trek endeavors and had a beinghood similar to Earth’s beinghood – her life-forms, her terrain, and the advanced species’ culture, traditions, academic achievements and pride).

Spock is immortal, having held onto his katra and detoured around nu-Trek.

Spock is transitory? No, as beauty endures, so does Spock, and so does Prime Star Trek.

Sorry to be corny or dramatic (take your pick depending on your pov), but it is how I feel.

30. captain spock - July 31, 2014

Zoe Saldana is pregnant with her first child due next the first of next year

2www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/guardians-galaxy-star-zoe-saldana-72067

31. I am not Herbert - July 31, 2014

yeah, no more p*ssy-whipped punk-*ss pseudo-spock please… =(

32. I am not Herbert - July 31, 2014

REAL Star Trek IS NOT a “chick flick”, OK? Thanks… =P

33. Danpaine - July 31, 2014

…yeah. Maybe he could get a chance to cry again if they broke up.

This Spock is such a candy a**.

34. Red Dead Ryan - July 31, 2014

Well, I would rather see the two of them break up. The romance just hasn’t worked for me. It’s not as big a deal for me as it was five years ago, though. Maybe I’m just more nonchalant about it now.

And it’s nice to see (at least so far) no one is telling Zoe to “eat a hamburger”. :-)

35. Phil - July 31, 2014

Herbert, you are trolling….and being a bit more repulsive then usual.

36. Admin - July 31, 2014

I am Herbert

FINAL warning for trolling

37. Jemini - July 31, 2014

36. Admin – July 31, 2014

so he gets a warning for trolling, but the ones that called other fans ‘mindless’ etc (e.g, Robert Bishop) get a free pass…. lol

38. Corylea - July 31, 2014

TOS Spock is one of my all-time favorite characters. AOS Spock has been far too human for my liking; part of the point of Spock is that he’s neither one thing nor another and doesn’t really fit in anywhere.

If Spock were real, I’d want him to have a relationship with Uhura, because I’d want him to be happy (or as close to happy as a Vulcan can be. :-D) But since he’s (sadly) NOT real, I think his character is better served by his not being romantically involved with anyone, at least not this early in his life. There was an essential aloneness to TOS Spock — except for his close friendship with Kirk and his lesser friendship with the other Bridge officers and with McCoy — and that was an important part of the character, part of why we all sympathized with him.

Of course, it IS slyly humorous for SPOCK to get the girl and for Kirk to get the brush-off in the reboot movies. :-) But since it looks as if they’re setting up Carol Marcus as a romantic relationship for Kirk, that humorous role-reversal probably won’t be present in the third reboot movie; we’ll probably have some Kirk/Marcus romance instead. *yawn*

A certain subset of fans has been thinking that Kirk and Spock would make good romantic partners for each other since the TOS days. Now that Zachary Quinto has come out as gay, Paramount may want to emphasize Spock’s heterosexuality, to counteract our knowledge that Mr. Quinto would probably rather kiss Mr. Pine than Ms. Saldana. ;-) One hopes that homophobia will be truly extinct by the 23rd century, but since it isn’t extinct in the present day, Paramount may want to distract us from the knowledge that Spock’s actor is gay by making Spock’s character more obviously heterosexual than TOS Spock was (since TOS Spock seemed asexual most of the time).

I’ll take a Spock/Uhura kiss if the third reboot movie gives us a restrained, Vulcan Spock who doesn’t cry, scream, try to beat people to death with his bare hands, or otherwise act like a human with pointy ears instead of like the Vulcan he should be.

39. Jemini - July 31, 2014

38. Corylea – July 31, 2014

“Now that Zachary Quinto has come out as gay, Paramount may want to emphasize Spock’s heterosexuality, to counteract our knowledge that Mr. Quinto would probably rather kiss Mr. Pine than Ms. Saldana. ;-) One hopes that homophobia will be truly extinct by the 23rd century, but since it isn’t extinct in the present day, Paramount may want to distract us from the knowledge that Spock’s actor is gay by making Spock’s character more obviously heterosexual than TOS Spock was (since TOS Spock seemed asexual most of the time).”

I don’t think it’s paramount’s decision. It’s the writers that out them together in the first movie, before Zachary Quinto even came out.
Actually, if we were to follow hollywood’s standards, gay actors are the least guys to get the main romantic subplot of a franchise like star trek.

Zachary Quinto is not a vulcan or a serial killer in real life but this doesn’t stop him from playing both convincingly because.. guess what? His job is being an actor. Straight actors play gay characters all the time and when they play heterosexual couples they surely don’t want to sleep with every actress they worked with. You might find some funny stories about iconic couples played by actors that despised each other (Gone with the wind comes to mind, if the rumors were real…)

The notion that a gay actor is different from a straight one and thus he must want to make out with every male actor he works with and he can’t play a straight character is itself an expression of that ‘homophobia’ you’re mentioning here and I’m not sure that it’s the writers that are expressing that.

“I’ll take a Spock/Uhura kiss if the third reboot movie gives us a restrained, Vulcan Spock who doesn’t cry, scream, try to beat people to death with his bare hands, or otherwise act like a human with pointy ears instead of like the Vulcan he should be.”

yet, nothing of what you described above (screaming, crying etc) was related to Uhura and his relationship with her.
If you want him to be more vulcan, perhaps your criticism should be directed to the dynamic that made him do these things

40. Harry Ballz - July 31, 2014

Saldana says, “it would be nice to see Uhura do more stuff”

Are you kidding? She already gets featured WAY too much in the new films.

What an ego!

41. I am not Herbert - July 31, 2014

Thank you Jemini =)

Admin: I will try to tone it down, i guess? but consider: Phil hates me…

42. Disinvited - July 31, 2014

#40. Harry Ballz – July 31, 2014

Come on, Harry, if you got what she gets for being in the Avatar sequels, you’d have an ego too.

But if you want to lament about egos, how about the 5 leads in CBS’ THE BIG BANG THEORY holding up the new season’s production to negotiate better contracts? I have mixed feelings. But I suppose I’ll feel better about it if they do like the Friend’s cast and negotiate a better deal for their second tier actors as well.

43. NuFan - July 31, 2014

If my older self appeared in front of me and told me to screw logic and do what feels right, then that’s what I would do.

44. Miraman - July 31, 2014

40. Harry Ballz
so the actress has an ego because they asked her if she wants more Uhura and she said yes? All the actors want more for their characters even the guy who played the half cyborg officer in the last movie said he wants more of his character too!
I didn’t see anyone here complaining when Alice Eve said that she wants Carol to get in the captain’s chair and be the voice of reason of the enterprise and get pregnant with babies whose father is not certain it’s Kirk. No one said she had an ego then and I don’t remember this site making polls asking fans if they agreed with Alice or not.
After all these years you guys are still asking if people want spock uhura to break up. How many polls you have about that already? Ridiculous.

The hatred and bias this site has against Zoe Saldana and Uhura is blatant. You know people have reached the bottom here when even the article about her pregnancy is filled with vitriol and arguments.

45. IDIC Lives! - July 31, 2014

#38 Corylea

Hi! Interesting post. I guess you do know that a number of people saw TOS Kirk and Spock as possibly having a gay relationship and volumes of some of the best written fanfic is about this alternate reality. No one said that this was true on aired TOS, but it somehow had vibes which led to admittedly fantasy concepts for some fans. Certainly others hated the idea.

In this way, Trek fans were years ahead of gay romance being acceptable. Of course, Paramount and even the actors were not thrilled but–the actors just grinned and endured. Paramount was more vicious.

I hope the old K/S thing is not a verboten subject, I don’t intend to go into it further, just saying, some fans saw Spock as not asexual in TOS, no, not at all!

Young Nimoy is a sexy man, IMO, I don’t get your idea that Spock was a asexually inclined, actually. He controlled himself, he had a different genome than the humans, he acted toward sexual matters as Vulcans do, not as humans do. He is a different species – yes half human – but he embraced his Vulcan half, and who knows what exotic traditions they have??!!

46. Corylea - July 31, 2014

#39 Jemini — You have completely misunderstood my post; you are reading a lot of stuff into it that wasn’t actually there. It wasn’t there because I did not mean it and hence did not say it. ;-)

I will not address most of what you said because it is so at odds with everything I said and such a misreading of everything I meant, but I will clarify my last paragraph. That point of that paragraph was that the Spock/Uhura romance is part of the (in my opinion) inappropriate humanization of Spock’s character, but (again, in my opinion), it is the least objectionable part of that humanization, and I’d be willing to tolerate a Spock/Uhura romance if they’d remove the rest of that humanization. I never said — because I never thought — that the Spock/Uhura romance CAUSED that humanization; I see it as merely one more element of it.

#45 IDIC Lives — Er, of course I know that a lot of people thought that Kirk and Spock were — or should be — lovers; I, um, actually SAID SO in my post. Trust me, I have read oodles of fan fiction, both K/S and otherwise. :-)

As for my saying that Spock frequently seemed asexual, I was thinking about things like the end of “The Wolf in the Fold,” where Kirk wants to go to “a cafe where the women are soooo,” and Spock looks at him as if he has no idea what Kirk means. He doesn’t look at Kirk as if he doesn’t want to go to the cafe or as if he thinks that going to the cafe would be unVulcan; he looks at Kirk as if he doesn’t even know what Kirk is talking about. Or in “Mudd’s Women” where McCoy and Scotty and most of the other men are acting as if they’re under some kind of spell whenever the women are near, and Spock is acting just as he always does.

Yes, young Nimoy is a sexy man. For that matter, OLD Nimoy is still a sexy man; I could point to thousands of female fans who wouldn’t kick him out of bed, even today. ;-) The fact that others regard the actor — or even the character — with sexual longing doesn’t mean that the character himself EXPERIENCES sexual longing, however. And yes, I am talking from the perspective of humans, since those are the ones who watched the TV show and who go to the reboot movies, and those are the people whose perceptions I think Paramount wants to control. ;-)

47. Buzz Cagney - July 31, 2014

Of course she’d be heartbroken. She’d be sat at the back saying ‘hailing frequencies open Captain’ instead of chasing her boyfriend around.
Would be a blessed relief to me if they can find a half way. Give Uhura some good stuff, like the Klingon exchange last time, but have Spock go back to being, well, Spock. Solitary.

48. I'mPaul - July 31, 2014

I don’t know what it is about this woman….I just don’t like her. I always feel like she’s acting when I see her and I just don’t think her body of work matches the acclaim she gets. I just don’t see the appeal. And I hate to say that because she might be a wonderful and hard working woman but I don’t connect with her at all. And I felt like her blue Avatar over-acted also.

49. IDIC Lives! - July 31, 2014

#46 Corylea

Thanks for your good comments. We probably have some friends in common. My best friend of over 30 years wrote some of the best K/S. I am a writer also, and have been for over 30 years.

This is why I was smiling to myself when a S/U enthusiast said that I was against S/U because I probably could not stand the thought of interspecies romance. Say what?!!

I tried to explain that my entire life has been— I have a mixed race daughter whom I raised myself and there is more to my life (always has been) which is innovative and free. Believe me, I think S/U is boring (just my opinion) and tame; it belongs in the realm of someone’s fantasy, not prolonged in nuTrek (*yawn* – to echo you).

Thanks for your post here, we’d probably enjoy a chat with some iced tea or a cup of coffee.

50. Jemini - July 31, 2014

TrekkieGa—ehm, I mean IDIC Lives!
lol I knew you were a spirk fan because you didn’t hide it well, but believe me, everything makes so much more sense ;)

no one would waste so much energy over a subplot they claim to not even care about, unless they had an agenda and think they can ‘earn’ something from that.

51. Jemini - July 31, 2014

I find it funny that there there are many spirk fans lurking this site and commenting since 2009 but they always try to hide it… I wonder why…
either way, if your goal is looking unbiased it’s a lost battle. There isn’t a single person in this page that is not biased. We all are regardless our ‘biography’, better accept this, be honest with our opinions and move on.

52. IDIC Lives! - July 31, 2014

#49
Jemini

You are one rude person.

I never tried to hide that 35 years ago, I knew about and enjoyed K/S. However, it was NEVER to be in aired Trek, no one wanted or said that. It was a fantasy universe, just like S/U should be.

It is my business, you are a would-be bigoted bully, aren’t you? my my.

I did not say “K/S” outright previously because it was not the subject at hand in that argument.

I am honored that you have been thinking so much of me, trying to make sense of it all. You still don’t have it right but, gee, thanks for caring.

Your gender prejudice against 2 men is showing — “spirk fan” – a rude, crude slang name for K/S. I doubt Zach Quinto would be pleased with you.

I do not know what “TrekkieGa” means but no doubt your level of intelligence allows you to know and smirk. Smirk away.

53. IDIC Lives! - July 31, 2014

Just for the record, I do not want Star Trek with ANY crew romances. I want a damn good science fiction story. I want a professional crew who are unique individuals unto themselves – going way out there into deep space.. I want Kirk to be the captain we know, I want Spock to be Spock.

I repeat: I do not want – in aired Trek of whatever type (film, series) ANY romances going on among the crew. I never did. This includes (*yawn*() Jim n Carol as well as Spock n Uhura.

54. IDIC Lives! - July 31, 2014

If someone thinks Zach Q. is just to die for, you’d think they would not look down on gay love affairs.

55. IDIC Lives! - July 31, 2014

Jemini, July 26th, regarding Zach Quinto:

“I love this man.”

56. Phil - July 31, 2014

@41. I don’t hate you, we’ve never met.

If the admin thought I was out of line they would have said so. Consider this, even the causal fan can recall TOS episodes where Spock either shed a tear, or absent the self imposed barriers to the expression of emotion, was very capable of desiring and participating in a relationship….that does not make old or new Spock the rather crude term you described him….

Enough said.

57. Jemini - July 31, 2014

for those who don’t know (assuming it’s even possible in this fandom lol) what ‘spirk’ stands for: it’s the fans that ship a romantic and sexual relationship between Kirk and Spock.

one of the old writers and a gay man in real life himself, has gained quite a reputation in that fandom back then because he, well, wasn’t exactly supportive of that subculture and 20 years later he still hadn’t changed his mind. To say that he is against the idea of K/S being more than brothers is a holy understatement.
http://fanlore.org/wiki/Open_Letter_to_K/S_Fandom_by_David_Gerrold)
https://www.facebook.com/david.gerrold/posts/10201196256560847
http://www.orionpressfanzines.com/interviews/an_interview_with_david_gerrold.htm
Yeah, I mean mister David Gerrold

Zachary Quinto had joined the ‘hated by the K/S fans club’ too recently because of some of his statements when certain fans asked him if he was having a relationship with Chris Pine and if he ships spirk…

if the notion is that not seeing K/S as lovers or the writers not making those fanfictions canon means one is a ‘homophobe’ then what to say about these two gay men who just don’t see and love that relationship as nothing more than friendship?
but I’m sleep.

58. Jemini - July 31, 2014

52. IDIC Lives! – July 31, 2014

“Your gender prejudice against 2 men is showing — “spirk fan” – a rude, crude slang name for K/S. I doubt Zach Quinto would be pleased with you. ”

lol what?
girl bye, that’s the shipper name that your fellow shippers created.

” If someone thinks Zach Q. is just to die for, you’d think they would not look down on gay love affairs.”

I dunno what my finding Zachary attractive and well spoken has anything to do with anything here. You have a weird way to seek for ‘counter arguments’ that never ceases to confuse me. At one point I know that my destiny is to to inevitably stop understanding what the heck you are talking about.

speaking about what Zachary Quinto would approve or not
well, he had always said that he likes the Spock/Uhura romance
in the interviews for the last movie he said he hopes to see their connection getting stronger in the next movie.

on the other hand, when he got asked (more than once) if he had ever read any of the Kirk/Spock fan-fiction he said:

“I’m afraid I have better things to do with my time than read that. If those people don’t have anything better to do, that’s their business, but I do.”

that he later further explained when the online community started bashing him (there were even interesting posts about him possibly being against slash because he has issues about his homosexuality..):

“What happened in Ireland was I was giving an interview and somebody asked me about [fanfiction], and I said something that some people have misinterpreted as disrespectful, and so I would like to say here, for the record, that I mean no disrespect for people who either write or read fanfiction. I have absolutely no interest in it; it doesn’t interest me. I understand how it interests other people; I respect their desire to be interested in it. I think both Kirk and Spock—and definitely me and Chris—are only good friends. Any suggestion otherwise has more to say about the person making the suggestion than it does about the characters.”

he’s gay in real life just like Gerrold. He supports gay rights, obviously, and wants more representation but this doesn’t mean that he must support the flash subculture.
I don’t think you should mix the two things here

59. IDIC Lives! - July 31, 2014

#57

Jemini, you do know that “spirk” is very close to a really profane word for Puerto Ricans, don’t you? It is actually just as bad for K/S. It is a bigoted, stupid, profane word.

I assume “TrekkieGa” means Trekkie gay? You really do enjoy name calling.

People do not rule their lives by David Gerrold or Zach, people rule their lives by their own will and intelligence. I can also see why Zach would not want to be seen as promoting K/S, they would soon be looking for a new nuSpock.

Fact is, I just stated that it was a private fantasy, no one ever tried to make it actual Trek.

So do you wish to limit free speech and free thinking/fantasy? Perhaps start camps for those of improper sexual orientation who don’t just love S/U? What is your point? Stamp out K/S? It had its day, you are barking up a dead tree. woof woof.

60. Harry Ballz - July 31, 2014

yawn

61. Jemini - July 31, 2014

I was just being my annoying self who notices stuff lurking this site now and then. I meant trekkiegal63 or what was her nick, you might should know her because you two use identical style and arguments and have the same passion for posting your ‘biography’ in every article to make your opinion sound more ‘valid’.

62. Jemini - July 31, 2014

59. IDIC Lives! – July 31, 2014

#57

Jemini, you do know that “spirk” is very close to a really profane word for Puerto Ricans, don’t you? It is actually just as bad for K/S. It is a bigoted, stupid, profane word.

———————–

if so, then you should sue the fans that chose this nickname for them and made it the most popular

http://fanlore.org/wiki/Spirk

don’t get angry with me. I didn’t choose it.

63. Marja - July 31, 2014

I am a huge fan of Zachary Quinto and am an advocate for LGBT rights, but if folks here will take a few minutes to read David Gerrold’s article, perhaps you’ll understand where I’m coming from. Quinto himself has stated, at the Montreal Fan Expo, that he and Chris Pine are “just friends,” and that Kirk and Spock are “just friends.”

There is a brotherhood of men who’ve been to war together, a brotherhood forged in blood and terrible experience. Or forged in weird, unearthly, surreal and sometimes deathly experience, as on “Star Trek”. That’s how I’ve seen Kirk and Spock from the beginning. I think it cheapens the idea of male friendship to assume that because TOS Kirk and Spock build trust and become friends over the course of the series, that they “must” be gay. But there are K/S adherents who insist “it must be so,” because look at what good friends they are!

People in this thread are dismissive of fans of the Spock/Uhura romance as “mindless” “brainless” Kardashian fans. Come on, just ease up. It’s ridiculous and it shows your predjudice against the women who are fans, whom you assume to be “brainless” …. it shows your prejudice against women who are casual Trek fans who come to the movies and enjoy that extra little thing. And it might just show your prejudice against a woman of color, Zoe Saldana, that you don’t want her matched with one of the two big heroes of Star Trek, Commander Spock, but relegated to a second-tier character.

Orci/Kurtzman/Abrams decided it’d be nice to unite the brainy guy with the beautiful girl. The relationship is depicted as mutually concerned, and [mostly] mature.

In fact, it strikes me as something of a depiction of Sarek and Amanda, Spock’s parents, at that age. Did Sarek give up being Vulcan to be with Amanda? I think not.

Has Spock cried, screamed, or grown violent because of Uhura or in any moment with her? No, he has not. His violence and un-Vulcan actions have stemmed from other things in the films, not from his relationship with her. If you watch the depiction of the characters, Spock is always quite subdued with her, except for that display of public affection in the first movie, when he was headed for what he thought was certain death. [This is the scene called "Spock and Uhura sucking face on the transporter platform"]

The fact that the depiction of their relationship takes all of about six minutes when you put both films together irks some people no end. I am not one of them.

64. Finnigan - July 31, 2014

The Spock/Uhura romance is ALMOST as stupid as lens flares, magic blood, cold fusion that is cold, and using a brewery for the engineering space on a starship. I’m just saying.

65. IDIC Lives! - July 31, 2014

#63 Marja,
And there are brave fighting men and women who fall in love with another soldier of the same sex. So—??? What are you saying?

You support LBGT but oh, it was just not accurate for some fans to even dream (fantasy) of K and S.

I repeat again, NO ONE tried to make it mainstream Trek!! You ignore this minor fact.

But yet it is right that S and U are together. That is your opinion, yes?
Ok! Got it.

What is your point?

Since you agree with Jemini, I wish you would ask her not to ALWAYS be rude and abusive to me. I was addressing “Corylea” in a personal response.

Jemini has snooped out, she feels, that I once read K/S and she thinks she caught a real sin – someone daring to have read same-sex fanfic which actually had interesting, good plots too. So much for tolerance.

Marja, I am sorry we cannot ever seem to agree.

66. Legate Damar - July 31, 2014

I think this is just too early in Spock’s life for him to admit that he loves someone. In the original timeline, he was never really willing to accept his emotions until the movies, and I don’t think Spock’s life changed enough before he was assigned to Enterprise for that relationship to make sense. Besides, at least before Vulcan was destroyed, he should still be engaged to T’Pring.

67. IDIC Lives! - July 31, 2014

David Gerrold – my best friend of over 30 years who wrote K/S so well, knows David well. I’ve read his published POV. Are we all supposed to fall into lock step with what David publishes? I respect his article. So??

68. Marja - July 31, 2014

59 Lives – Jemini, you do know that “spirk” is very close to a really profane word for Puerto Ricans, don’t you? It is actually just as bad for K/S. It is a bigoted, stupid, profane word.

Well, the K/S romantic relationship community is wide, and, I suspect, the “nick-namers” are quite young, because among the nicknames for this relationship are, “Spirk,” “Spork,” and the truly infantile “Kock.” So perhaps you might wish to address your comments to that community. It is not a word Jemini invented.

69. Nice - July 31, 2014

65. IDIC Lives! – July 31, 2014
——————————————————-

LBTQ is only relevant if the characters are actually gay.

the fact that girls slash male characters in their fanfic does not make them LBTQ activists as the characters are not gay. they are usually established straight males in loving heterosexual relationships.

I doubt the LBTQ community will appreciate breaking up loving heterosexual relationship and forcing the characters into same sex affairs when the characters are not really gay.

70. IDIC Lives! - July 31, 2014

Marja, As far as I can ascertain, Jemini has been as rude as she can be to me since she ferreted out that I am not “for” S/U.

Spirk is a name Jemini called me. It was used as that.

I am not “trekkie gal” or whoever. WRONG! I do not post my bio in every comment. I have mentioned it several times in trying to explain myself, defend myself and where I am coming form–AFTER I am attacked yet again – which is stupid of me because obviously Jemini doesn’t give a shite, has no respect nor have a keen intelligence for anyone or anything other than her smirky S/U pov.

What my life has been and is, forms my opinions. It is true of all of us.

71. IDIC Lives! - July 31, 2014

Just for the record, Jemini and Marja,
I never heard of any of those “new names” for K/S. I read K/S 35 years ago. I was only vaguely aware that there might be nuK/S fans (Pine and Quinto) and never gave it a second thought. I have never been to their websites, which I assume they have, I have never seen a word of it. I have never hidden my age, am proud of it. I am proud of my daughter and proud of my sexuality, so, Jemini, I am not “ashamed of it” as you told me earlier.

I think K/S (whatever stupid name it is called now) needs to be left in one’s fantasies, as stated, I want NO crew member affairs.

So Jemini, WRONG on both your brilliant snoopy, smart aleck discoveries: I am not a “spirk” and I am NOT “trekkiegal” or whatever you called her.

Go wash your mouth out with soap.

72. Jemini - July 31, 2014

66. Legate Damar – July 31, 2014
. Besides, at least before Vulcan was destroyed, he should still be engaged to T’Pring
—_–

The comics have stated that he broke it when be left vulcan for the academy so both him and t’pring were free to find another
If your argument is that vulcans don’t have relationships outside the arrangements their family did for them when they were babies I might remind you that in TOS a full vulcan , T’pring, was in a relationship with another dude regardless her being bonded to Spock. Ditto for t’pol.

73. IDIC Lives! - July 31, 2014

#69 Nice
What the heck are you talking about? Marja stated that she supports LBGT.

I said nothing about the actors–whatever you are talking about. Jemini was going on about “spirk.”

I was falsely accused of being trekkiegal, the spirk.

Now what is your problem with me?

Re-read what I said, nothing fits what you are saying to me.

74. IDIC Lives! - July 31, 2014

Harry Balltz, I agree. YAWN.

Time to move on, and so I bid you, Harry Ballz, adieu, and hope you are wearing your kilt.

75. IDIC Lives! - July 31, 2014

Sorry, Harry, I added a “t” to your name.

76. Long Haired Sybock - July 31, 2014

How about Long Haired Sybok showing up in III and teaching Spock to belly laugh.

Long haired Sybok to be played by Aaron Paul….@#$#%

77. Red Dead Ryan - July 31, 2014

Let’s see if I have this straight:

Anyone who opposes the Spock/Uhura romance is automatically a “Kirk/Spock shipper”?

C’mon now, that’s just nonsense. People who like the Kirk/Spock friendship like it for that reason alone…the friendship. The gay coupling is merely a fantasy of a small minority of fanfic fans.

78. Robert Bishop - July 31, 2014

I’ll take “crap we didn’t see on a Star Trek message board before 2009″ for $800, Alex.

79. Cygnus-X1 - July 31, 2014

47. Buzz Cagney – July 31, 2014

Of course she’d be heartbroken. She’d be sat at the back saying ‘hailing frequencies open Captain’ instead of chasing her boyfriend around.

Right, and it’s perfectly rational for the actress whose character is the significant other to one of the two main characters (arguably, the main character in BR Trek) to want her character to continue to be important and relevant.

What possible motivation could an actor in Zoe Saldana’s position have for wanting her character’s romance with one of the two main characters to end? File that question with the one in the article last month asking Zachary Quinto if he’s excited and optimistic about BR Trek 3 and Bob Orci directing it.

80. Marja - July 31, 2014

65 Lives! And there are brave fighting men and women who fall in love with another soldier of the same sex. So—??? What are you saying?

I am saying, ” … Or forged [a friendship] in weird, unearthly, surreal and sometimes deathly experience, as on “Star Trek”. That’s how I’ve seen Kirk and Spock from the beginning. Note, the operative word “I,” and note that I view them as friends, and some people [perhaps not yourself] are driven batchit crazy by the idea! that Spock would love a woman! when Kirk is right there!

These are the kind of people [from what you have said, not you] who down Zoe Saldana at every opportunity, who “hate” Spock/Uhura and diss Saldana in blogs and other electronic media. They’re acting like immature jerks. They are under the impression that Uhura is “cockblocking” K/S and needs to be removed. They resent that S/U is now canon, established in the movies, and resort to bashing the actress who plays Uhura, and bashing Uhura’s position as one of the leads in the films and saying she had no place in the “main cast”. Because that place belongs to three white guys [who could easily become three white guys and a WOC].

It makes women of color angry and it makes Saldana’s fans angry and it makes S/U fans angry.

Some K/S fans wrote their dislike for the S/U relationship in an oblique way because they did not want to be “called out” on TrekMovie for what they really wanted, and it was apparently for Uhura to be out of the picture in the movies so they could be free to have their fantasies about K/S.

I see no reason why they’d need to have Uhura out of the picture if they want to have fantasies of K/S [fans of the K/S relationship dealt perfectly well with TOS Kirk's "affairs" with the "girl-of-the-week"], but they resent that the S/U relationship has been canonically established by the AltVerse. That is crystal clear.

It is good that you avoid their internet sites, because you’d be disappointed by the behavior of young K/S fans. It ain’t like the old days of “live and let live.”

Re: TrekkieGal: TrekkieGal63 has a writing style similar to yours. She is also a HUGE fan of Shatner and, last year, spent quite a while on one TrekMovie thread posting his filmography and declaring that he deserved a lifetime achievement award from the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences. She has not appeared on this board in a while, and shortly after she disappeared, you appeared, so I hope you can forgive some of us for thinking you might be the same person. You are an equally devoted fan of Mr Shatner.

81. Anthony Pascale - July 31, 2014

Hi Guys…can you maybe tone down the sniping and personal attacks.

And yes I’m back, been back for a while. Holding down TM HQ while the gang is in Vegas

82. Dee - lvs moonsurface - July 31, 2014

“spirk” and “pinto shippers” are a problem just when they think they should be taken seriously! btw, they are very sensitive, I’m just saying! :D

83. Dee - lvs moonsurface - July 31, 2014

Oh… Helloo Anthony, glad to see you back! :-)

84. Harry Ballz - July 31, 2014

@75 “Harry Balltz”

That’s okay, IDIC!

It made me feel like I was in ST III with Kirk yelling, “BALLTZ! TOI CHU!”

85. The Observer - July 31, 2014

I can’t see them breaking up any time soon.

86. Dee - lvs moonsurface - July 31, 2014

#84. Harry Ballz

hahah

87. boborci - July 31, 2014

hmmm…. interesting….

88. Harry Ballz - July 31, 2014

@86

Thank you, Dee. I’m glad SOMEBODY liked it.

89. Cygnus-X1 - July 31, 2014

81. Anthony Pascale – July 31, 2014

If you’re referring to my two posts to Marja which are now gone, they weren’t sniping or personal attacks. She and I are friendly and have discussed previously how “some people” fill out the stories their own contributions.

90. Cygnus-X1 - July 31, 2014

*with

91. Cygnus-X1 - July 31, 2014

Sorry, wrong thread. Disregard those last two posts.

92. Captain Smirk - July 31, 2014

She needs to fall in love with Scotty, not Spock, so that “Star Trek V” makes sense!

93. Harry Ballz - July 31, 2014

@87 boborci

We’re going to need a little more than that, Bob.

94. I am not Herbert - July 31, 2014

Welcome back Anthony!! we were wondering what happened to you… ;-)

95. Marja - July 31, 2014

92 Smirk, if that ever happened, STV would STILL never make sense.

AP … how’ve ya been?

BobOrci, please leave Spock and Uhura just as they are. Kind of like Amanda and Sarek :-)

96. Jemini - July 31, 2014

This comment vanished let’s try again…

65. IDIC Lives

“Spirk is a name Jemini called me. It was used as that”

you are doing the most

“I repeat again, NO ONE tried to make it mainstream Trek!! You ignore this minor fact.”

You say? Then please explain me what a petition called ‘the social equality support’ is XD because I’m pretty sure it was a petition, originally called “the k/s mainstream effort”, made by the k/s fans to make their ship canon in the reboot using gay rights as a pretext

http://fanlore.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Alternate_Original_Series#The_SEE_controversy

I remember quite a wank over livejournal because of that. Even people in the LBGT community were pissed at you all and called the owner of that site out (b/c why the gay couple must be k/s? Why not other characters? Asking the writers to break up an interracial couple in favor of their favorite ship all the while talking about representation is really classy and coherent too)

You are being disingenuos.

“You support LBGT but oh, it was just not accurate for some fans to even dream (fantasy) of K and S.”

Your  definition of support of the LBGT is different from mine. I don’t think that supporting gay rights means writing fanfictions about k/s being lovers nor it’s harassing a gay man (quinto) with inappropriate questions about wathever both him and Pine and their fictional characters are a couple, even though he had already stated that the slash subculture doesn’t interest him (he said that when he got asked about his audio novel getting turned into k/s erotic fanfiction too)
And then insult him when he doesn’t validate their opinion and dares to support the actual script he’s given to. Surreal.
I have read any kind of comment made about Zachary, for people who think they are LBGT activists it took them very little to decide that Zachary didn’t deserve their respect anymore

97. Phil - July 31, 2014

Boy, has this thread jumped the rails. Good night.

98. Invinted - July 31, 2014

bwhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahaah

O this is too funny. So trekkiegal63 is afterall a K/S shipper despite the fact she denied it for years. she was one of those stupid female fans who used to hide under fake feminism to bash uhura when what really pissed her off was because uhura was in the way of her K/S.

I MADE THE CALL LAST TEAR WHEN I SAID SHE WAS INTO THE K/S THING BUT SHE DENIED IT.

So yes trekkiegal63 and IDIC Lives are one and the same. it was way to easy to figure that out.

99. Legate Damar - August 1, 2014

72-What T’Pol did was clearly outside the norm (she was still expected to marry Koss, and she was clearly looked down upon for dating a human), and I also got the impression that T’Pring’s relationship with that other guy was out of the norm. If Spock could just break up with T’Pring, then why wouldn’t T’Pring break up with him in the original timeline?

Spock and Uhura’s relationship works all right in the new movies, but it doesn’t really mesh with what we know of Spock in TOS. The T’Pring thing is pretty minor, but I don’t think he should be comfortable enough with his emotions at this point to even consider dating a human.

100. Jemini - August 1, 2014

77. Red Dead Ryan – July 31, 2014
Let’s see if I have this straight:

Anyone who opposes the Spock/Uhura romance is automatically a “Kirk/Spock shipper”?

———

No, only those who are k/s shippers as you can see in this page ;)

The most passionate opposers to s/u in this site are of two categories:
(Not including you in either of them though, for now XD)
– Kirk/Spock fans that like them as friends and don’t want other relationships get in the way of that one. Also part of the ‘dudes only eww girls’ club, in many cases they are, in fact, Kirk fans foremost who think that Spock shouln’t get a life outside his friendship with Kirk b/c that conflicts with their idea that the protagonist should be ONLY Kirk and everything must revolve around Jim. Some of these people will pretend to dislike s/u because ‘Spock is OOC’ and yet they have no issues with him crying and being homicidal: all things that aren’t related to his relationship with Uhura.
Even these people, though, can’t be disingenuous forever so occasionally you see them showing their true colors in comments in this site where they complain that Spock gets too much screentime.
– Kirk/Spock shippers that believe they were lovers in TOS and must be in the reboot. Those who know it won’t happen still wan’t s/u to break up just to feel more validated (exibit in this page) Uhura is their enemy, they believe that she’s a no-homo bait put by the ‘homophobic writers’ to dissuade people from slashing the characters
Henry Jenkins (who is slash fan himself) accused the writers of doing that (and now the k/s fans misquote it and claim it was Orci himself that ‘admitted’ they put s/u together only for that )

http://henryjenkins.org/2009/05/five_ways_to_start_a_conversat.html

To be noticed Henry’s mysoginy in that he called Uhura ‘Mary sue’ getting in the way of spirk because it’s ‘suspicious’ for him that she’s intelligent and both k/s are attracted to her lol
Oh but the best is when he essentially said that writers are bad for putting heretosexual relationships because they should only have “queer baited” homoerotic relationships b/w men SO that the slash fans can do their thing.
Never mind the fact that he’s romanticing the kind of dynamics that since TOS were a direct result of racism and sexism. He, in 2014, wants women to we erased so we can ‘slash’ .
Never mind the fact that there’re many CANON gay couples and characters that these supposed LBGT supporters IGNORE in favor of wanting together their favorite cis white male characters. If you want I can find back for you an article that analyzed the 100 most popular ‘couples’ over a popular fanfiction site. Spock/uhura is the only freaking star trek ‘het’ pair making it to the list, the rest is white dudes paired with white dudes. Few gay characters, few poc , women erased.

‘C’mon now, that’s just nonsense. People who like the Kirk/Spock friendship like it for that reason alone…the friendship. The gay coupling is merely a fantasy of a small minority of fanfic fans’

Sorry to burst your bubble but it’s far from being a ‘minority’ when it comes to the haters
I’m sorry but pretending that there are no biased k/s fans in this site, and in most of the arguments against Uhura, is disingenuos. You might not be one of them but they post here. Ever wondered why polls about s/u have so many votes? Because they post the links in their sites. Lol
Last time the other poll was linked everywhere. Just google ‘STOP THE MADNESS vote to prevent a relationship between uhura and spock’ and have fun, some blog posts were deleted but some posts from their ‘campaign’ should be still visible.

You must also think that it’s just a coincidence that most of uhura and s/u haters post here. If you go in sites like trekbbs where you are required to register an account to post, most of the people are fine about Uhura or the Spock/uhura thing. And I’m talking about the male audience especially, including trek writers (those who wrote novels for the franchise or comics who post in that board sometimes and they like s/u)
Must be a coincidence, also, that those posting over trekbbs are in large part non-shippers and just star trek fans
(They are also far more positive about the reboot in general, if compared to the ‘audience’ of this site. Trekmovie and other popular trek fanboards seem to be in two alternate realities lol)
———

I don’t like being that annoying person here but you yeah, can’t join your ‘lets pretend that the shippers are not the most vocal’ sorry.
If you guys want to truly know this fandom (at least the vocal side) you can’t base your opinions only on this site either.
I get, though, that you don’t want to be placed in their some box but I don’t think anyone is doing that here. I took the time to reply to you for this reason. I don’t take for granted that everyone here has the same experience in the fandom either.

101. Jemini - August 1, 2014

99. Legate Damar – August 1, 2014
‘If Spock could just break up with T’Pring, then why wouldn’t T’Pring break up with him in the original timeline?’

——–
Or more correctly, if TOS T’pring (a full vulcan) could do what she wanted and have free will expressed in her choosing to be with another person rather than one chosen for her when she was a kid, then why can’t Spock do the same thing? I’m not the one holding characters to a double standard, you are che one doing that with Spock in your original comment

I don’t think that vulcans choosing different mates is out the norm. Seems to me it was allowed by their traditions even. The reason why Sarek and T’pol are judged for their choices is not because they fall in love with someone who isn’t their arranged bondmate. It’s because they chose a HUMAN and not another vulcan.
It’s more or less the same bigotry people have in our world for interracial couples, just in trek the ‘other’ is the alien (relative. For humans it’s Spock but for the vulcans Uhura and Amanda are the alien)
How they say? The more things change the more they stay the same.

102. Qman - August 1, 2014

Best Spock line/quote ever:

“The women!!!”

103. Sam - August 1, 2014

Well, there are a lot of comments about this topic already, but Ill just add some of my own thoughts. I guess for me at this point I just don’t see the harm in keeping Spock and Uhura together when they have already been a couple for two films. So many things have changed in the reboot timeline and altered the lives of the characters. I guess I see the relationship between s/u as one of the more positive changes and something that appears to be meaningful for both characters involved. Its a decent subplot, and it would be cool to see it continue as such. Plus different relationship dynamics get explored in trek so having an inter-species/interracial romance seems fitting to me.

104. Cervantes - August 1, 2014

@ #81 Anthony Pascale

Hello and welcome back.

@ #87 boborci

Hello to you too. Regarding the whole Nu-Spock/Nu-Uhura relationship…please kill it with fire.

Seriously, why not? Kill it stone dead. There’s your big ‘character drama’ moment right there for the next one…kill off Uhura! In any way you can imagine, but with fire if need be.

Nu-Spock can wail during the moment along with all the fans of their relationship…and the rest of us can be satisfied it’s all finally over.

Alternatively, you could have bumped off Nu-Spock in some dramatic way instead, except I wouldn’t want to see the Wrath Of Khan movie shamelessly ripped off again. So it’s got to be Uhura that gets bumped off if we’re to see something new and emotional. ‘Cos something needs to be done before we end up getting a little pointy-eared young ‘un appearing before too long at this rate…

105. Mel - August 1, 2014

No matter if Spock and Uhura stay together or break up, I hope not much time is wasted on their relationship in the next movie. It was one of the weak points in the movies.

I also agree with the points Corylea brought up earlier in this thread about how the writers have humanized Spock too much. There is nothing really alien about him anymore in the new movies. He is just another human among tons of other humans, which is very disappointing. The only prominent alien TOS character was practically written out.

Spock shows all the time his emotions very openly now. No subtlety at all. It is practically like he has no emotional control. In TOS he generally only did it, when he was under some kind of alien influence or in The Cage, when the character’s personality wasn’t really determined yet.

Seriously I hope the writers keep in mind for the next movie, that they are writing for Star Trek and not for the Avengers. Spock is NOT Bruce Banner! He doesn’t have to go into rage mode one or two times per movie and punch at people with his fists!

So not only is he lovey-dovey with Uhura, he has also less anger control than all of my little nephews! If he wouldn’t have those pointed ears, I would think he is a full human and just based on his behaviour, Spock being a human/Klingon hybrid seems more probable than him having Vulcan DNA.

106. Curious Cadet - August 1, 2014

@95. Marja,
“BobOrci, please leave Spock and Uhura just as they are. Kind of like Amanda and Sarek :-)”

I don’t mind this in concept, but please just put Spock back on the path to Kolinahr and the quest for total logic. Sarek was NEVER what Spock has become. What made Spock interesting was his struggle with his human half. Now he’s seemingly fully embraced it to the rejection of his Vulcan side. This was integral to the character. Change that and essentially change the character … It doesn’t matter whether they are technically the same thanks to QM MWI. It’s like exploring an alternate universe where John Kennedy became a playboy and didn’t go into politics. It’s an interesting story to explore, but that’s not why people are interested in John Kennedy. These movies are supposed to BE Star Trek. But how can they be if a fundamental part of the franchise has been changed?

107. ST:EXP - August 1, 2014

What? No Nichelle Nichols naked cover? :)

108. IDIC Lives! - August 1, 2014

The viciousness toward K/S is plain and simple homophobia.

I am, however, in favor of having NO crew romantic relationships, and certainly the world would not be ready for same-sex affair of the principle characters – NO.

On the Ron Moore thread, I made the same point regarding Spock as Curious cadet just made here. Someone said “The nerd finally gets the girl.” Spock is NOT a nerd human, he is a Vulcan.

Finally, not that anyone cares (to quote Leonard from “The Big Bang Theory),” but I am NOT whoever “trekkiegal” is or was.

The sock puppet who came on this thread, named “Invinted,” (obviously she cannot spell “Invited” for her sock puppet), stated that I am trekkiegal.

The reaction to my mere mention of K/S of 35 years ago apparently induced an episode of real homophobia in this S/U person. I suppose this being the Internet, she can create a sock puppet and tell lies about me and she has. I am sure she will attack again due to this comment.

I am not a current “spirky” person, I have NO knowledge of this current tangent in fandom, had never heard their various slang words for what used to be called K/S. For me, that is over and done with as a fantasy (only!) and has been for about 30 years.

The contributions I have made to this forum, show what I am about. I try to have a thick skin but a few people are really vicious. This reflects on how they view Star Trek, too. Too bad for Star Trek.

109. Red Dead Ryan - August 1, 2014

Jemini is clearly on a witch hunt here, referring to anyone who dare oppose the Spock/Uhura romance as being “Kirk/Spock shippers”.

110. Cygnus-X1 - August 1, 2014

LOL @ 104. Cervantes – August 1, 2014

111. Cygnus-X1 - August 1, 2014

106. Curious Cadet – August 1, 2014

please just put Spock back on the path to Kolinahr and the quest for total logic…

…or, on a nice, long psychiatrically supervised vacation at a resort on a peaceful, sparsely populated, sunny planet with no sharp objects around.

In ST09, Alt Spock becomes annoyed and maroons his first officer on an inclement, frozen planet where the latter is nearly killed. When Kirk reappears on the Enterprise, Spock nearly strangles him to death. Then, in STID, Spock again has to be stopped before he beats the downed Khan to death. BR’s variation of the famously logical, emotionally repressed character is constantly screaming and crying and throwing temper tantrums, and he’s never so much as chastised by Star Fleet for any of it. This man should not even be serving aboard a star ship, much less the first officer of the Federation flag ship. Alt Spock clearly has a medical condition, most likely PTSD, and what he really needs is a nice, long, relaxing leave of absence first and foremost.

112. IDIC Lives! - August 1, 2014

#109 Red Dead Ryan,

Thanks for your comment. I know we have not seen eye to eye on nuTrek but such is life, no problem.

There is a viciousness (I thought) mostly toward me from Jemini. Hey, I am an only child and sometimes I do think the world is all about me but at this point in a relatively hard life, in a negative way :-0 – ha ha
This nastiness has been in her every comment to me for a number of weeks. I have frankly been befuddled by it.

Finally someone has said, “Look, it’s not just you.” Thanks, RDR.

S/U is basically just another subject we debate from nuTrek, it’s not like it is the Russian Revolution or the 2nd Coming. Jeesh.

I do think when the mere mention of a same sex couple causes such venom, it is simply another ugly aspect of homophobia. K/S does not work for thousands of reason and no one (not me) wants it to work in nuTrek.

But if I suggested that Spock should have – say – Janice Rand for his new girl friend, would it bring the hatred and viciousness? Hey, it’s not S/U and it is still nuSpock. (Yes, I know we would have to cast Janice Rand first).
:-)

Anyway, thanks for your comment, RDR. You’re not so bad.

113. Phil - August 1, 2014

Well, it’s weird that on observation on Ms. Saldana, on a Ms. Saldana thread, would be off topic, but here goes – it looks like she has another bona-fide hit on her hands with GOTG, and Marvel is rumored to want that sequel in 2016 as well. She’s going to be busy, one way or the other….

Sill indifferent to Spock/Uhura. At this point, it’s there, and most of the people fuming about it seem to be speaking from a personal bias as opposed to offering up a legitimate reason to dump the relationship. There’s enough in canon to suggest that there’s no reason for Spock to not have a relationship, so lets see where it goes….

114. Disinvited - August 1, 2014

#40. Harry Ballz – July 31, 2014

“Well, it’s weird that on observation on Ms. Saldana, on a Ms. Saldana thread, would be off topic, but here goes – it looks like she has another bona-fide hit on her hands with GOTG…” — Phil

See Harry? She comes by it honestly. It is only natural in the entertainment biz that if one understands their apparent entertainment quotient (Q) potential to use it to maximum advantage.

115. Mel - August 1, 2014

@ 112 IDIC Lives!

“But if I suggested that Spock should have – say – Janice Rand for his new girl friend, would it bring the hatred and viciousness? Hey, it’s not S/U and it is still nuSpock. (Yes, I know we would have to cast Janice Rand first).”

From what I read over the internet from S/U shippers and other fans of black/white ships, some would probably call you a racist, if you make this suggestion. Not necessarily on this site, but on others. But that happens to all Spock/any white character shippers to some degree, K/S shippers included.

Some shippers, and it doesn’t matter which ship and which fandom, just go overboard, when it comes to defending their ship. And it is the same with anti-shippers of certain ships.

Shippers of male slash ships accuse their detractors often of homophobia, which sometimes might even be the case, but often not.

They themselves tend to be accused of being misogynist, because they don’t include a female character or characters so much in their fannish activity. If a female main character isn’t white, racist accusation will also happen. Good example for this is the Merlin fandom and the sometimes nastiness between Arthur/Merlin shippers and Arthur/Gwen shippers. Accusations of homophobia or on the other side misogyny and racism, tend to occur sometimes. It is kind of similar to Kirk/Spock vs. Spock/Uhura shippers.

Female slash shippers sometimes accuse their detractors of homophobia and misogyny. Anti-shippers at least don’t tend to accuse them of excluding and hating male characters as often as male slash shippers are accused of doing this with female characters.

And then there are all kinds of other ship specific nastiness, which can be thrown around. There are always some things about specific ships, which will cause total general accusations from both sides.

I think the main problem is, that some shippers and anti-shippers just generalize a big amount of people. Not everyone who doesn’t like the slash ship someone ships, is a homophobe. Not everyone who ships a male slash ship, is a misogynist. Not everyone who isn’t a huge fan of a minority character or a mixed race ship, is a racist. And so on and so forth. But still those generalizations occur all the time in fandoms.

116. Jemini - August 1, 2014

109. Red Dead Ryan – August 1, 2014

Jemini is clearly on a witch hunt here, referring to anyone who dare oppose the Spock/Uhura romance as being “Kirk/Spock shippers”.

………..

on the other hand, someone here saying that everyone who doesn’t see K/S as lovers (including, I guess, Zachary Quinto and David Gerrold) are homophobes

I never said that everyone who doesn’t like S/U is a K/S shipper but you probably didn’t even read my explanation (with facts, I might add) to why SOME people might have that opinion about SOME people here.

108. IDIC Lives! – August 1, 2014

The viciousness toward K/S is plain and simple homophobia.

—-

and that’s the summary of your story in this thread

so anyone who doesn’t ship K/S as lovers is a homophobe, including people like Zachary Quinto (a gay man in real life who probably wants representation more than anything) or David Gerrold (also openly gay and who actually wrote an episode with a gay couple that wasn’t accepted by the network) or everyone in the LGBT community that dares to dislike it when slash fans (see the whole ‘SEE’ petition made to make K/S canon) use their cause (more representation) as a pretext to validate a shipper.

If you want to believe that anyone who doesn’t ship K/S or objects to some people in that fangroup fetishitinz gay men (Zachary and David)

117. Jemini - August 1, 2014

*fetishizing gay men

118. Red Dead Ryan - August 1, 2014

#112. IDIC Lives!

Thanks for the kind words!

119. Red Dead Ryan - August 1, 2014

Yes, “Guardians Of The Galaxy” is getting good reviews. I think I’ll check it out this weekend.

120. IDIC Lives! - August 1, 2014

#115 Mel,
Thanks, you are right. First, can I ask a really stupid question? I am not familiar with the word “shippers” used in the way it is being used.

Granted, I am not deep into social fandom, I have been busy living my life (and what a life!). I have loved Star Trek since 1976, campaigned for STTMP to be made and for the space shutter to be named Enterprise, but there are long periods in my life (I am 67), when I was not at all involved with Trek or fandom. There are other periods when I did know what was going on and watched a lot of Trek, but–still not “in the know.”

It’s been mentioned that I gave facts about my own life as if this were an uncool thing. I expect no medals or some such, but I went into this subject because I had already been accused of being racist for not being thrilled with S/U.

In fact, I participated in the civil rights movement and my own daughter is mixed race, her dad was from Trinidad, I am white. I was/am a single mother.

But even these facts of my life were nastily thrown back in my face as “hubris” (which I really do not understand!). And I was immediately accused of “being ashamed” of my daughter.”

I am so very proud her my daughter and–this commenter does not know me, of course. What a nasty comeback, a terrible untruth which implied racism on my part. All this because I do not want any of the Trek crew to be intimately involved with another member of the crew for the next film.
Goodness!

As you indicate, it is a no-win situation. I am sorry I uttered the word “K/S” but it was actually referred to in an objective way by the commenter ahead of me, and I thought I’d answer her.

Shippers–does it mean affairs aboard the Enterprise? Oh, I guess that must be it. I can only think that if these nasty folk ever get a real life, they will learn there are more important things in this universe than shippers and anti-shippers.

121. Mel - August 1, 2014

@ 120. IDIC Lives!

Shippers are just the term for fans of a relationSHIP. So if someone likes two characters together, in fandom people will say he/she “ships” them and that he/she is a “shipper” of them. The term “shipper” alone implies, that someone likes two characters romantically together.

There are also friendship shippers. Fans of two characters together, but only in a platonic way. But in those cases people will generally clarify, that they only “ship” those characters as friends.

Ship and shippers come from relationSHIP and have nothing to do with spaceships or boats. You can find those terms in all kinds of fandoms.

122. Marja - August 1, 2014

104 Cervantes, Jaysis on a popsicle stick, man!

Kill it stone dead. There’s your big ‘character drama’ moment right there for the next one…kill off Uhura! In any way you can imagine, but with fire if need be … ‘Cos something needs to be done before we end up getting a little pointy-eared young ‘un appearing before too long at this rate…

[a] Wow, hate much?
[b] Apparently you have never heard of birth control. I should think it’d be right there in the Starfleet regulations, but whatever.

123. Legate Damar - August 1, 2014

101-I could be wrong, but I get the impression that not all Vulcans have arranged marriages. Tuvok, for example, once talked about how he met T’Pel. However, even though T’Pring had a relationship with Stonn, it seemed as if she wasn’t supposed to. She didn’t tell anybody about it until the end of the episode, and she was still expected to marry Spock. Maybe Spock should declare the kal-i-fee (are men allowed to do that?) and have T’Pring and Uhura fight to the death.

124. Marja - August 1, 2014

105 Mel, Spock shows all the time his emotions very openly now. No subtlety at all. It is practically like he has no emotional control.

AGGGHHH YES HE DOES HAVE EMOTIONAL CONTROL.

Actually, in his interactions with Uhura, in most of the first movie [except that kissin' in the Transporter Room scene] and all of the second, he was quite Vulcan. Understated. Even his “statement of caring” during the flight to Kronos was expressed in a Vulcan manner. He also expressed little outward emotion at Pike’s death, but as he related later, felt it deeply.

Where he was emotional and over-the-top was in
1 – Star Trek 2009
[a] as a child responding to Vulcan bullies
[b] as an adult, reminded of his mother’s death by Kirk, who sought to emotionally compromise him
2 – STiD
[a] Kirk’s death scene
[b] His beat-down of Khan [ugh]

125. IDIC Lives! - August 1, 2014

#121 Mel
Thanks again. I really know nothing of other fandoms!

In ye old days, there was Hurt/Comfort K/S which meant no gay sex but that Kirk would get hurt and Spock would comfort him or vice versa. It seemed to turn-on some people (not me, I am more forthright than that :-))

In one “famous” fanfic story, Kirk lost both legs and Spock left Starfleet to care for him. He went blind another time. Yes, I knew enough about these stories to relate the plot but again, I preferred plain old K/S. That was about 35 years ago.

So how’s about friendship h/c k/s? haha I guess that enters into “fetishes.”

Thanks for taking the time to explain. I am a writer by profession, I write science speculation and futurism, it is so very fascinating with quantum stuff and incredible new tech and science discoveries. Warp drive is not far away and THIS is what thrills me – not just as I get older but it always was my first passion – the Future which Star Trek shows us!

This leaves “ships” in the dust in my world and I think this is true for many of us.

126. Marja - August 1, 2014

106 Curious, see my above response to Mel.

Kohlinar is pretty extreme and not sought after by average Vulcans. Vulcans normally seek to control their emotions, not purge them completely. Control is valued.

It’s like exploring an alternate universe where John Kennedy became a playboy and didn’t go into politics.

Non-sequiter. Spock is still in Starfleet, and he is by no means a playboy. And as I said to Mel, above, he does exercise control over his emotions except for those regrettable moments in the two movies I outlined above.

127. Marja - August 1, 2014

108 Lives, Someone said “The nerd finally gets the girl.” Yes, I believe it was originally Bob Orci, and I quoted him.

I am not homophobic, and nor do I hate K/S. I do, however, dislike those K/S “shippers” who spread their hatred for the character Uhura and the actress Zoe Saldana.

Unlike them you can tell fantasy from reality and fanfiction from filmed “canon.”

As I said to you, and I think you relate, in the old days of the beautiful fanzines it was het or /slash [I still find the word "slash" applying to relationships rather distressing] “live and let live;” however these days it seems the opposite applies, because some really hateful people have access to, and spout their views on, the internet, and too many have “hated on” “Uhura” and Saldana. So yes, I am rather fed up with it and am sensitive on the subject.

I think Mel, 115 above, gave a pretty good summary of what some folks are upset about and fed up with. There are still mature “shippers” who can live and let live, but they seem regrettably few. I think those are the grown folk, while the teens have a lot more misdirected passion about their “ships”.

128. IDIC Lives! - August 1, 2014

#127 Marja,

“I do, however, dislike those K/S “shippers” who spread their hatred for the character Uhura and the actress Zoe Saldana. ”

Goodness, I would (and do) dislike them too, but I have never seen even one comment by them. Obviously they are not on this site, thank goodness–or–I didn’t open every article/post with comments beneath. (Tis true, I don’t have time nor interest to open every post so maybe I miss things).

But is there an actual forum where this emanates? I don’t want the name!!!!!!!!!!! I am just asking in general, where are these idiotic people??

My daughter looks like Zoe and just today she was reminding me via phone (she lives in San Fran) of the time we went to “Color Purple” and people behind us were making faces at Whoopie Goldberg’s character, obviously being racist. She said she began to cry (she was a young child) but that I turned around and shut them up. She was proud of me. She and I were “against the world” (like that old song, “You and Me Against the World), and–you can see why I am —???—- I don’t even have a word for it–when I am attacked as I was a few weeks ago and in a different way, just now, for being prejudiced about Spock and Uhura.

The S/U radicals don’t even stop to digest the meaning of my post – that I raised a mixed daughter. They somehow manage to hold that against me too –why?—because I dared not to be smitten with S/U.

Ugly actions are ugly actions, whether one is pro S/U and against K/S in its modern incarnation–or against S/U and pro K/S.

Hell, it’s not even “against” as far as I am concerned. I can sit through S and U kissing, it’s nice. I really am ok with it. But I am passionate and therefore perhaps extreme on how much I love Star Trek in my own way (we all have “our own way of loving Trek).

I live in my mind, was never a big “physical” person of any description. I had several great love affairs but–even they depended on my mind for meaning and depth.

My passion lies in the stars, in going “out there thataway,” in Space, the Final Frontier. I often refer to Star Trek in the articles and books I write for a meager living (I am not a hugely successful author, but I survive).

So, to me for any relationship in Trek to be too much in my face, it’s not my thing. The mixed race aspect of S and U hardly dawned on me at all; to me, they are S and U. And if I am quizzed, I’d remember he is an alien and she is human. Period. (OK, part alien).

So you are fed up and sensitive on the K/S nasty idiots as well you should be, because they are hateful toward S/U and toward Zoe. I empathize, I have felt that hatred (but from a S/U person) and in this case, I am not a modern K/S person, so I was really confused, and not in a good way!
This attack has happened on several threads, not just this one.

I did not know Orci originally said, “the nerd gets the girl.” Makes no diff, just another thing I missed. I do animal rescue and I write like mad for a living, so though it seems I am on this site a lot, I do miss a lot of things.
(I am not bragging re animal rescue – this county has no animal shelter – I am being honest so that you might know me a bit. Less dislike of me that way, perhaps even from other S/U folk).

I am sorry for past sharpness between us. In fact, I am also sorry for the trouble with Keachick but in my defense, when I write a long, thoughtful post, and she calls it “senseless,” “stupid,” “thick,” and worse— well, I am not an angel. I have always identified with Kirk and probably have his failings too. I suspect “fierce” is the last thing Keachick needs.

Internet forums do get into your head and emotions, apparently (now I sound like Spock), and often not in a good way.

129. Son of Captain Garth - August 1, 2014

Given nuTrek’s propensity for cannibalizing previous iterations of canon, the writers will probably deal with the demise of the Spock/Uhura relationship by having her do some fan dance to distract the enemy and Spock will get jealous and dump her–only to have Uhura land in Scotty’s waiting arms–but only after they rescue her from an angry guy with a big ship.

130. Son of Captain Garth - August 1, 2014

BTW: Zoe Saldana? Yum.

131. dswynne - August 1, 2014

People should accept that fan fiction, whether K/S or S/U, as legitimate expressions of fandom, especially when done well.

132. Harry Ballz - August 1, 2014

Do you really think Guardians Of The Galaxy is going to be a BIG hit because Zoe Saldana is in it?

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA………………..oh, sorry.

133. Curious Cadet - August 1, 2014

@113. Phil,
“There’s enough in canon to suggest that there’s no reason for Spock to not have a relationship, so lets see where it goes….”

It has to go away, so Spock can pursue a more logical Vulcan path. There’s enough in canon to confirm Spock has had relationships of one kind or another. I for one am not saying Spock should not have a relationship, I’m saying let him have a relationship, but don’t change the fundamental underlying character. I just don’t see how anybody can support this version of Spock as faithful to the original material. Personally, I don’t see the relationship contributing anything to either character, but it definitely takes Star Trek in directions that TOS never explored — to which all I have to say is: wow, is that what Star Trek had been missing all those years? An ongoing shipboard romance to explore throughout the episodes? Spock being more human and less Vulcan? It’s amazing that TOS ever built an audience and became the enduring franchise it did without exploring those concepts. Thank god Orci has come along to FIX Star Trek for us all.

I am willing to accept that this immature Spock is exploring his humanity here, as long as he continues his inner struggle between logic and emotion, and ultimately embarks on the path we see him on in TOS. Orci keeps saying they will evolve into the characters we know and love, which means, Spock needs to eventually focus his energies on logic, and shedding emotion — and who knows, breaking up with Uhura, combined with the death of his Mom and Pike, may all be the catalyst the drive him toward a more pure Vulcan lifestyle and the Spock we know. I can only hope.

134. Cervantes - August 1, 2014

@ 122 Marja

In answer to your points, I prefer the term ‘strongly dislike’ for how I view the way the Nu-Spock character has been re-imagined in general for these latest movies, compared to the aloof, ‘logical’-thinking original version.

Yes, yes…I know it’s a ‘different’ timeline now and all that, but I just find his ‘dating’ a fellow crewmember makes him seem a lot less ‘half-alien’, and a lot less interesting. I just didn’t expect to see the stoic Vulcan ‘all loved up’ and having to endure an ear-bashing at certain times from his ‘love interest’ in these reboots!

Not that I can really blame him as Uhura/Saldana is absolutely lovely…but I would have preferred to see Nu-Kirk and other crewmembers (Nu-Scotty perhaps) still being the ones that ‘chased the ladies’…not Nu-Spock.

As far as ‘protection’ goes, you’re probably right…but my comment about a ‘baby Nu-Spock’ being introduced in these reboots was only light-hearted. Shudder the thought. It’s bad enough that we’ve got little ‘Keenser’ running about the ship…

135. ironhyde - August 2, 2014

I’m voting No, I don’t want to see the breakup next movie, because the relationship is there and I’d much rather see some good sci-fi and intelligent plot than bickering lovers. It’s done, leave it, now give me some Trek.

136. boy - August 2, 2014

@134. Cervantes – August 1, 2014

NU Spock did not chase the ladies. Please what films have you been watching. the only woman we have seen him with is uhura and he is not chasing her both are in a mutual agreement to have a relationship.

Kirk is the one have three way sex with girls. Spock is not chasing women or doing such thing.

137. Jemini - August 2, 2014

133. Curious Cadet – August 1, 2014

I get what you’re saying but I find it contraddictory.

Following your reasoning, then Spock should be reduced to a robot and apparently you find TOS Spock ooc as well since he did have emotions and expressed them. Perhaps he simply did it with other kinds of relationships but HE DID.
The notion that this Spock should be a ”’vulcan”’ and emotionless only with his girlfriend, all the while being allowed to express his feelings with others is pure nonsense. Can’ t have the cake and eat it too and I’m sorry but the Spock you want them to create wouldn’t make it possible for the writers to make him have relationships with ANYONE, including friendship.

As for the rest.
To me the relationship adds to the characters.
It’s something that the other writers never explored because both characters were limited by the time. Roddenberry had stated once, though, that if the series didn’t get canceled he’d eventually end it all with Spock married (that is a bit implied in TNG too later, btw) I think he’d approve Spock/Uhura because according to Nichelle Nichols he had tried to set it up too and he would try again if the show didn’t get canceled and the time was less racist.
Actually, it wasn’t their idea to keep Kirk and Spock single. But some producers and the network thought that they’d lose the female audience if any of them had a girlfriend as, at the time, fangirls would get ‘jealous’ of the hero getting the girl. There is also the fact that the time was so sexist that probably these guys were only allowed to express platonic feelings for the dudes (sounds familiar to me)

If you can understand the need to make him have friends, then you should understand why a writer would want to explore a side of his character in different relationships too, beyond platonic ones with human dudes.
It’s a reboot in another reality, exploring what ifs is the writers doing their job.

Spock’s parents were an interracial (yes interracia) couple. It’s not so crazy to think that he’s his father son, after all, and he’s his mother son as well.
The relationship puts him into a place where for the first time he can understand why his father was “contraddittory” in that he wanted to follow the vulcan culture and yet, he fell in love with an emotional human woman and married her (twice) ( btw, sarek was far more emotional with his wife in TOS than Spock is in the reboot. I seem to remember that he blatantly smiled at her. He was hopeless!) It’s pretty much canon that he loved Amanda, the reboot just makes him tell that to his son under specific circustances and I honesly think it changed the Spock/Sarek relationship for the better. Not to mention that they have something more in common now ;) I like the idea that in the end Spock realizes that his father is not that different from him, even if his father doesn’t have a human side messing up with his vulcan one. It must have been mindblowing for him. All this time he thought he had to choose (b/w his sides, b/w his parents) and instead he doesn’t have to!
When the old series and movies ended, Spock Prime was alone and he probably had many regrets about his life because perhaps if he hadn’t spent all his life trying to be who he wasn’t, he could’ve have found a balance sooner. Everything he had were his friends only and his career but he was destined to outlive them and now he’s trapped into another reality more alone than ever. Looking back, he still has things he never resolved. Puzzle pieces he, unlike this Spock, didn’t find and never got the chance to find.
Do you seriously think that he’d tell this Spock to be the way you want him to be or do the same mistakes old Spock did? Sorry but I have my doubts.
In the first movie he had encouraged Spock to put logic aside sometimes and just do what he feels right. If he were to know that this Spock has a girlfriend he’d probably be as jealous as Nimoy was when he saw the reboot. There is no reason why this Spock should be put in the same misery.

Besides, these characters might simply prove that free will does exist and people have a degree of control over their life depending on the circustances they are in, that in no way can be identical in every parallel reality. It wouldn’t make sense for me to predict the future of these characters using tos as the destiny book. This is not a fairytale. Not to mention that the idea of a character ‘doomed’ to make the same mistakes he did in another life, even if his own life is a bit different and he gets chances other versions of him didn’t get, is quite depressing. It’s like thinking that eventually khan will show up again and this Spock will die and then travel space and time getting trapped into another alternate reality just because the other Spock did. Or Kirk will have a son he doesn’t know and who will die right after he found him. Or that Kirk will eventually die alone like Kirk prime did. Why should I even watch the reboot if everything is written and the characters are doomed to have the same exact existence the ones in the other reality did? A waste of time for me.

138. Jemini - August 2, 2014

Ironically, I actually think that with what I know of the vulcans they probably ‘get’ romantic relationships and the need of a mate way more then they do get the human concept of friendship, that might be far more complex for them to understand than loving their mate. They don’t even have a word for friend. While romantic and family love seem to be a constant of both human and vulcan culture, friendship seems to be a foreign concept for the vulcans. Tuvok comes to mind. He undeniably loved his wife and kids, that was normal for him and part of his existence as a person. He couldn’t even really use words to express his feelings for them as he said they were part of him and he felt incomplete without them. Yet, after working for years on that ship he still wouldn’t call those people his friends, though you know he cared for them too.

That’s why in the last movie I didn’t find it so far fetched that Spock could have a girlfriend but he still couldn’t get why Kirk wanted to be his friend. It must be easier for him to get why his girlfriend cares for his well being than it’s the idea that someone could care for him without having to be in love with him, without having to be his brother or any other member of his family. Thast’s is new. It’s not so surprising that both Kirk and Uhura had similasr issues with Spock after the volcano accident but ultimately it’s Uhura the one who compels him to explain himself and he finally does. She’s someone he loves so the moment he feels she’s misuranderstanding him, he has a ‘reason’ to make an attempt and make her understand where he’s coming from, and in way reassure her that he does care and her impression of him in those circustances was wrong. He didn’t feel the same with Kirk earlier because he didn’t get that Kirk was his friend and thus his care went beyond the fact that he’s a captain. It’s not just that, he also had to understand why kirk cared *for them all* and would sacrifice himself to save them.
His confusion about the concept of friend all the while still being able to have a significant other was pretty much in line with what I know about vulcans and a subtle difference b/w our culture and theirs. and I like the way the writers touched on that in the last movie.

Of course though not everyone will get it…. I just find it funny that the writers are constantly accused of not knowing what they are doing and not knowing ‘canon’ when, yet, a lot of the things they explore are supported by canon.

139. Jemini - August 2, 2014

I can agree about one thing though: i’d like to see his alieness more (though that is relative, since from his pov the aliens are Uhura and Kirk XD..so, really, he shouldn’t be presented as ‘the weirdo alien’ when in context he is no more ‘alien’ than anyone and humans are NOT the default) but beyond the whole ‘vulcans control their feelings’ cliché. The vulcan culture is not just that. I’d like to see more of the differences b/w the two cultures but so far, Spock hasn’t shared that much of his vulcan heritage with us or the characters, not even his girlfriend (who, btw, probably speaks vulcan as well).
What happed to the whole ‘vulcans are touch touch telepaths’, for example ?
I like the couple precisely because it’s not a human with another human too and I find it more fitting in context of star trek and the kind of society these characters live in. It’s something that star wars never did even though they do have two romantic couples.

140. IDIC Lives! - August 2, 2014

Jemini,

Have some class and offer me a brief apology. You wrongly, gleefully announced me to be “tekkiegal,” nastily called me a “spirky” and even worse things were said to me in past posts. You said I am ashamed of my mixed-race daughter and my civil rights involvement, for instance, when I assure you, to quote nuSpock, it is quite the opposite. You had NO basis in this other than to be ignorantly nasty.

If you really thought I was one of these spirky people you hate (and who hate you, apparently, as Marja explained), then simply admit that you were wrong in jumping to this conclusion.

I am a Space: The Final Frontier person, the science fiction story into which ALL the crew members fall, is what I am passionate about. I am not any kind of “shipper” person, to me “ships” divert from aired Star Trek BUT–that is me. You are you. Tolerance, please. (What happens in fan fic and non-aired Trek is up to one’s fantasies).

Yes, I know Internet forums don’t offer apologies between members usually, but your assumptions against me PERSONALLY were really outstandingly wrong and misguided – and mean spirited.

If you really are a champion of justice, fair play, and non-discrimination, you’d drop your right-fighter stance for a second and offer a brief, “Sorry, IDIC Lives.”

You will notice I offered a similar apology to Marja and I had done nothing to her like you did to me. There had merely been edginess between us, partly because she defended Keachick – and I addressed that too (my “bad” within that situation).

If this is an “uncool” thing to write on this forum, I am guilty of “uncool.”

141. Jemini - August 2, 2014

139. IDIC Lives! – August 2, 2014

“Have some class and offer me a brief apology.”

LOL and for what exactly?

If you think you deserve an apology for these ‘imaginary’ insults you have received from myself, you’re wrong. I never said anything of what you’re accusing me of saying. If so, prove it with the quotes. Otherwise all these accusations are fanfictions.
There only one person here who keeps attacking me and taking things way too personally and that’s YOU.

Now, if I were inclined to insult strangers on the internet, you’d receive a different reply from me now. But, I’m sorry to disappoint, I won’t fail for your wank bait. So what’s next?
You’re the one who keeps talking to me even though my most recent replies had nothing to do with you.
Is the attention that you want?

“You wrongly, gleefully announced me to be “tekkiegal,”

Wasn’t the only one that noticed the similarities. But I take that back for the sole reason that, thinking about it better, the person I was talking about was far too articulate to be you. Your styles aren’t that similar.

“nastily called me a “spirky” and even worse things were said to me in past posts. “

I’m still laughing over the fact that you’re seriously trying to turn the Kirk/Spock shipper name – spirk – (that wasn’t established by me lol x1000) into an insult. That’s just too amusing and further shows how weak your arguments are and that you’re trying way too hard to find pretexts here to play the victim.

“You said I am ashamed of my mixed-race daughter and my civil rights involvement”

never did such a thing. EVER. If so, feel free to copy and paste the supposed comment by me where I supposedly said something like that (and also the link of the article where I did).
I never commented your private life, I didn’t even read such things because I scroll past the parts in your comments where you probably mentioned these things.
I don’t care. It’s not about you specifically but I’m here commenting star trek, not your private life. If you get the impression that I did, it says more about you than me and that’s you reading way too much into things

“If you really thought I was one of these spirky people you hate”

it’s not ‘spirky’, it’s spirk fans
they’re called spirk because they combine spo(ck)(k)irk
simple like that. You’d know if you opened the fanlore page that I linked you and it explains it.
fans do the same with spock and uhura (spuhura, spyota… I don’t think the fans take it as offensive either LOL)

and didn’t you say that you are a kirk/spock fan? Why takes offense from that?
if you’re so outside of that fandom that you don’t know how their fans are called it’s not my fault. Now you know. We told you. You could google it too and see it by yourself.
Though, honestly, I find your apparent obliviousness about some things a tiny tiny bit hard to believe. There are people in this site who know the ‘shipper names’ of this fandom even though they don’t ship the pairs. I find it hard to believe that someone who is in the fandom since all these years can seriously not know how the fans of a ship that they like are called. But anything is possible.
anyway this was explained to you (and not just by me) more than once already. I even linked you the page from fanlore that lists spirk as the most popular shipper name used by the K/S fans themselves.
So your insistence in wanting to take ‘spirk’ as an insult is getting old and pretentious.

I didn’t read the rest of your comment (probably other accusations of imaginary insults I don’t need to address) because I don’t have the time.

142. IDIC Lives! - August 2, 2014

Jemini,

You are not a good representative for the S/U concept.

I feel sorry for you.

143. Jemini - August 2, 2014

141. IDIC Lives! – August 2, 2014

Jemini,

You are not a good representative for the S/U concept.

I feel sorry for you.

aaaand I’m still waiting for you to link me the comments where I supposedly insulted you the way you’re describing in the comment above :)
I mean, you sure don’t want someone to think you are making stuff up to pick up a fight with people and derail the topic everytime you have no other argument to make.

as for the rest, I didn’t know I was supposed to be a representative of anything here other than myself and only my opinion *SHRUG*

‘Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations’ is good concept, btw.
whatever that ‘concept’ truly ‘lives’ here and is being represented by you… well, this will be judged by posterity
not me. =)

144. Son of Captain Garth - August 2, 2014

In all seriousness, I’m just over the whole Uhura/Spock relationship. Just let it be; I think someone else here made a good point in that they shouldn’t waste valuable movie space giving this any more attention–especially the bickering that would accompany the break up.

I believe that to give it too much attention in either direction would limit the writers from giving us something fresh, original and coherent. They have demonstrated a propensity for getting distracted by side issues like a kitten chasing a piece of yarn.

My biggest problem with seeing Spock (Quinto) kissing Uhura (Saldana) is that I don’t get to do it. But then again, I’m a petty bastard that way.

145. IDIC Lives! - August 2, 2014

#144
You are probably right.

146. Disinvited - August 2, 2014

#132. Harry Ballz – August 1, 2014

It doesn’t matter what you or I think. The question is will the empty headed suits at the studios look at the grosses of the films she’s in and draw that conclusion allowing her agent to make such approaches and succeed?

147. Harry Ballz - August 2, 2014

@146

I understand, Disinvited.

But, here’s the thing, and I’m pretty sure it’s right:

The vast majority of the audience who will go to see Guardians Of The Galaxy are interested in the premise, the action and entertainment of it all.

If the producers of this movie had cast some unknown actress (of reasonable talent) to slap green paint on her face and play the role that Saldana did, they could probably have saved a good chunk of money.

It DOESN’T MATTER that Saldana is in the movie. She is irrelevant.

Also, the reviews say she’s pretty average in it, with not much to do.

148. Keachick (Rose) - August 2, 2014

I see that you, Jemini, are encountering the same kind of problems that I have had to deal with. Good luck and I mean that.

The truth will out…eventually.

149. Curious Cadet - August 2, 2014

@137. Jemini,
“Roddenberry had stated once, though, that if the series didn’t get canceled he’d eventually end it all with Spock married (that is a bit implied in TNG too later, btw) I think he’d approve Spock/Uhura because according to Nichelle Nichols he had tried to set it up too and he would try again if the show didn’t get canceled and the time was less racist.”

I would love to see the original source references for these claims. Do you happen to recall where this is documented?

150. Jemini - August 3, 2014

148. Keachick (Rose) – August 2, 2014
I see that you, Jemini, are encountering the same kind of problems that I have had to deal with. Good luck and I mean that.

The truth will out…eventually
———-

I have noticed.
There seem to be a pattern with some people here in that when they can’t reply to your argument (about trek) with their own counter argument (about trek), they will derail the topic with arguments (about themselves) and accusations that you are insulting them and hate them (yet, they refuse to post the supposed quotes where you did that). If that isn’t a blatant attempt to try to shut down any different opinions than theirs I don’t know what it is.
It’s always amusing to see that s/u fans are painted as “bullies” (you know by who, not making names… ) in the same page where people are insulting fans (female ones in particular) that like the relationship as ‘brainless’, ‘mindless’ and kardashians (which is the most hilarious insult!)
Oh and let’s not mention the ‘you’re homophobes!’ because you don’t ship Kirk/Spock as a couple, even though, you know, they are not lovers or gay in canon and there are many people in the LGBT community (see Quinto and Gerrold) that despise that interpretation of the characters. Funny how that works.
But I’m sleep.

151. Jemini - August 3, 2014

149. Curious Cadet – August 2, 2014
“I would love to see the original source references for these claims. Do you happen to recall where this is documented?”
——-

For the first part you have to ask someone who still has the original star trek books if they can transcript or scan some quotes for you. The ‘hint’ that Spock married someone is in TNG when Picard mentioned that he attended the wedding of Sarek’s son. They never said it’s Spock but canon has established that Sarek has only two sons: Spock and Sybok. With the latter dead, only Spock is left. (and in that case even, who he married is a mystery)

As for the rest, here you go courtesy of fanlore:

“I decided then from the character that I read [Spock] that I wanted to be very much like that character but in a feminine way. And Gene (Roddenberry) said, and I was sharing this with George (Takei) the other day, when I told him that I thought of Spock as my mentor. Because if you remember Uhura was the only one he was able to teach the Vulcan lyre too and he sang and spooffed on Spock. Now, you could have never had a love scene in 63 between Uhura and Spock but there were several hints and Gene was one in the kind of beginning to follow that and he wanted to do episodes if we had gone past the third year
— Nichelle Nichols the trekfest ‘09

” There was always a connection between Uhura and Spock. It was the early 60’s, so you couldn’t do what you can do now. ”
— Nichelle Nichols Answers Fan Questions, startrek.com

152. Curious Cadet - August 3, 2014

@151. Jemini,
“For the first part you have to ask someone who still has the original star trek books if they can transcript or scan some quotes for you.”

I take it you mean for the most controversial of your statements that Roddenberry would have had Spock married by the end of the series, had it not been cancelled? Either way, it doesn’t mean we would have seen an active relationship on screen with one of the main cast members season after season. Ending a series with a story arc resulting in marriage is very different than an on-going relationship that colors everything about a character. It’s something to explore in television, not a 2-hour movie every four years.

The TNG reasoning seems specious and wishful to me. Sarek is standing there with a fresh young wife. How many wives between her and Amanda? How many more children? The fact that Spock is seen in later episodes and his wife is never mentioned, does call that speculation into question, especially when it’s that alleged wedding that Picard first met Spock’s father. That Prime Spock does not reflect upon his wife among his losses in the alt universe, while simultaneously going on about how important his friendship is with Kirk to Nu-Spock, is another factor.

And whether or not Spock got married off screen, and now has a wife during a one-off guest appearance like Amanda and Sarek, is not the same thing as an on-going relationship. I have to look at Roddenberry’s actions in TNG — no regular on-camera couples, or marriages. If Roddenberry really wanted to have fulfilled that wish he was in a position to do it with TNG, and he didn’t. The same with Nichelle Nichols comments. Perhaps the ONLY reason Roddenberry wanted to peruse a bi-racial romance was because it was taboo. And nothing I’ve read said he wanted anybody to start dating on a regular basis, much less Spock and Uhura. The bottom line for me is that it limits the possibilities of what the characters can do. The studio may have had a problem with Janice Rand, but they weren’t necessarily wrong. TOS wouldn’t be the show it is had Kirk had to deal with a girlfriend in the course of “doing his duty”. Even if Rand had not been his girlfriend, she most likely would have usurped Uhura. Likewise for Spock & Uhura. And just what happens when two characters break up? They sort of can’t, in any realistic way. If a relationship like Spock & Uhura ended, then what? The audience would feel uncomfortable, and I suspect at least Uhura would as well, and they’d have to address that. And there’s just no time in a two-hour movie every four years — so the good news is that Spock and Uhura are not likely to break up in this film series — perhaps they will even get married!

But I still maintain, that this isn’t the Spock or TOS that made the franchise into what it became. You conveniently twist my words to make hyperbolic inferences about my intent, but Spock’s motivations have changed in this universe and a such he’s a different character. It would be like having Kirk explore his fan inferred bisexuality exclusively with men in this film series. It wouldn’t matter either way, except it’s not who this character is, and has little bearing on the stories TOS otherwise told. I’m just trying to imagine taking your same argument to have Kirk engage in an on-going homosexual shipboard romance (with Hendorff?) because it’s a regret Kirk always had in the Prime universe — being married to his ship — no time for a relationship or a family he deprived himself of … All interesting things to explore in fan fiction and possibly a TV series, but has little to do with the TOS characters and has no place in a two-hour movie every 4 years.

153. J.A.G.T. - August 3, 2014

She looks smokin’ hot. But geez, why do ladies these days have to get those stinkin tats all over their bodies? Oh well, same applies to guys, I guess. But what happened to the times when people were leaving it at some nice skull or eagle or anchor or virgin mother or whatever on their upper arm?

154. Jemini - August 3, 2014

152. Curious Cadet – August 3, 2014
” I take it you mean for the most controversial of your statements that Roddenberry would have had Spock married by the end of the series, had it not been cancelled?”

there are people who think that Jesus had a wife and kids
and yet, the idea that Spock could fall in love and marry is ‘controversial’! lol

No one is saying that tos spock/uhura is canon or that married Spock is canon as neither of these things ever happened in tos. Therefore they’re not canon.
This is just a counter-argument to those who insist that the reboot doesn’t respect canon and Roddenberry. It’s BS because there is enough evidence both in canon and bts stuff that Gene had never intended Spock to be a monk or a robot. There is nothing in canon that suggests Spock could never fall in love and he could never ever have a relationship (or a relationship with Uhura, had the circumstances been different both in the story and in the society at the time)

If anything, Spock and Uhura might be, now, simply allowed to access to narrative elements that they couldn’t be allowed to access to in the context of the 60s.

I have nothing against people saying things like ‘to me Spock is asexual’ or whatever. I only object to the entitlement of some people here who act like some ‘canon authority’ and keep patronizing others (including the writers) about what has or not has place in these movies.
These people should reconcile with the fact that, when all is said and done, their views are no more valid as opinions or interpretation of the characters than the opinion of the rest of us who disagree with them.

“The TNG reasoning seems specious and wishful to me. Sarek is standing there with a fresh young wife. How many wives between her and Amanda? How many more children? The fact that Spock is seen in later episodes and his wife is never mentioned, does call that speculation into question, especially when it’s that alleged wedding that Picard first met Spock’s father. .”

I get what you are saying here but it doesn’t change the fact that in canon Sarek only has two sons: Spock and Sybok.
so, to be fair, the idea that it was the wedding of another son( that we don’t even know if he exists) and not Spock isn’t less a speculation or wishful or a stretch than simply do 2+2 and think that, using what we actually have in canon, the son they were talking about was, probably, simply Spock.

[Besides, in one of the novels Spock did marry someone (Saavik). Novels aren't canon but trek isn't new to using generic concepts stated in the novels and make them canon somewhere in the movies or the other series. Uhura's first name was only fanon before as well, even though Nichols herself named her 'Nyota'. Heck, even her being a skilled linguist was more something stated in fanon/novels than a thing developed in the series or the movies. Ask Nichelle about that scene where she used the dictionary and what the director told her when she said that it made no sense that Uhura couldn't speak klingon]

That Prime Spock does not reflect upon his wife among his losses in the alt universe, while simultaneously going on about how important his friendship is with Kirk to Nu-Spock, is another factor

Assuming that Spock Prime had a wife and assuming that she was still alive, WHY should he tell Spock about that?
He’s already influencing the characters WAY too much. In context of that scene, especially, it would make no sense for him to mention a wife, or any other detail about his life that he can’t know if it’s the same for this Spock too. Talk about out of character!
Why not tell Kirk he had a son he never got the chance to know and that died right after he met him, then?

Spock prime was just pushing Spock to stay aboard the enterprise and feel free to do what he wanted, rather than what he thought it was his duty. Telling him about the friendship with Kirk was already cheating and influencing him but at least he knew that they already met each other. Hoping that this other version could have him as a friend too wasn’t too bad from Spock Prime’s part, even if still wishful perhaps.
In the last movie, though, he did imply that he doesn’t want to influence the character further than he already did. This suggests to me that he respects the fact that his other self is not really him and he won’t necessarily live the exact life he lived. He has his own path as a person that is his only to live and he really doesn’t have the right to influence him.

Why should these characters not be granted the same free will that the tos characters were allowed to have?

The same with Nichelle Nichols comments. Perhaps the ONLY reason Roddenberry wanted to peruse a bi-racial romance was because it was taboo.

well, Roddenberry had dated Nichelle Nichols himself. Perhaps he just liked Spock enough to want him to get the girl ;)

Gene was a flawed man but he still tried in his own way to show an utopian world that was supposed to be more positive than the era where he was living that was surely tamed by racism, along other things.

And nothing I’ve read said he wanted anybody to start dating on a regular basis, much less Spock and Uhura.

…. and he’d probably approve a romantic relationship between them, of all the characters, precisely because it is the less cliché and predictable. Precisely because it’s the alien and the woman of color instead of a white human with another white human, which is what you see in everything
nowadays like in the 60s…

And just what happens when two characters break up? They sort of can’t, in any realistic way. If a relationship like Spock & Uhura ended, then what?

that’s just blowing it out of proportion.
If you can sustain friendships without having to ‘break them’, there is no reason why one couldn’t keep a romantic couple , especially when it’s just a subplot anyway and not the be all and end all of the story. It’s just another dynamic.

what are we going to ask next? If Kirk and Bones should stop to be friends in star trek 2016? Because, apparently, them being friends is a problem and should be stopped because … ? Nonsense.
Unless someone is scared that it takes away from the Kirk/Spock friendship.. but that would be an irrational fear since they’re the main characters and their friendship is the most given aspect of star trek and the relationship that you can absolutely take for granted that will always exist and get developed no matter what.
But it’s a tad more realistic for them both to have other important relationships beside their future friendship. Kirk will most likely always have more than his friendship with Spock. He has the friendship with Bones, the friendship with Uhura, with Scotty. A possible romantic interest. Spock only has Uhura and you want them to take that away from him. Pretty.

I don’t get why romantic relationships are held to a different standard here, anyway.
If your argument is the characters being ‘professional’ or too ‘emotional’, well, then – lol – we have already established that these guys had been quite emotional and unprofessional because of the friendships. The biggest complains people have about Spock in the movies are scenes that aren’t even related to Uhura or his relationship with her.

There is no need to destroy the integrity of THESE characters and ignore the bonds that they have formed with the other characters. In that, it doesn’t seem to me that some people here truly care about what serves the story or these characters best.
You all keep talking about who the tos characters are but you’re ignoring who these characters are NOW and the needs that these characters have.

Spock’s motivations have changed in this universe and a such he’s a different character.

well, bingo.
He’s different and yet the same. IDK but I thought that this was called alternate reality for that reason.

I mean, it’s not like the relationship is the only different thing while anything else is exactly the same. This is a reality where:
– Vulcan got destroyed (and probably a lot of people that lived in the other reality and might have influenced some of the events we have watched won’t even be conceived here. Talk about butterfly effect!
– they killed Amanda, Pike and George Kirk.
– Chekov is still a baby
– Khan is a white British terrorist
– Carol is a British lady too, and she’s a weapons specialist instead of a molecular biologist. And she wants to be aboard the enterprise and be part of Kirk’s world, it seems, even though the original one had never wanted to be part of Kirk’s world and didn’t want to live on that spaceship.
– Chapel had a thing for Kirk instead of Spock (now that’s really AU.. )
– Pike was Kirk’s mentor instead of being Spock’s.
In the other reality he was supposed to Kirk’s predecessor who worked on that ship for 10 years. Here he had been the acting captain of the new shining enterprise for like 5 minutes before Kirk got the ship (talk about getting the shortest end of the stick. You hit the jackboot Pike! sorry dude)

Did I mention they destroyed vulcan and they literally created another reality as well as another vulcan?

yet, the most controversial thing for some people here is the fact that Spock and Uhura love each other? .. that’s kind of .. funny.
talk about priorities!

155. Jemini - August 3, 2014

I get that some people love tos because of the dynamic between the dudes, in particular. But I think that when one is talking about what is supposed to be a modern reboot, it’s disingenuous to pretend that said old dynamics didn’t benefit in some way from problematic things like the sexism and racism of the era, and it’s absurd to ask a modern reboot to go backwards.
In the 60s you had only Kirk, Spock and McCoy because you simply couldn’t have anything else, but probably if that show was made nowadays you’d have a completely different thing (heck, had McCoy been the most popular character instead of Spock, his friendship with Kirk would have usurped the one Spock had with Kirk). There is no reason why you can’t have different dynamics now (like a quadrumvirate ) and explore new things, even keeping the spirit of the characters.

besides, like I mentioned in another page, what these writers did is nothing that all the writers don’t do all the time. There is no movie ‘based on a book/series/comic/movie’ that is exactly identical to the original thing. More often than not, writers change things because, ultimately, I think (and I understand) that their need as artists and storytellers is still to make the thing *their own thing* too and not just a copy of the work done by someonelse.

At least in this incarnation of trek they tell you that it’s an alternate reality

156. Disinvited - August 3, 2014

#149. Curious Cadet – August 2, 2014

This is not what you are looking for, but I thought you’d find it interesting where they took it:

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Vulcan's_Heart

In this interview they discuss their surprise at getting the Paramount imprimatur for the marraige:

http://www.trektoday.com/interviews/sherman_and_shwartz.shtml

157. Curious Cadet - August 3, 2014

@156 Disinvited,

Thanks for that. It’s strictly novelizations, so I’m not surprised it was explored there, that’s an appropriate forum for that kind of story.

But there’s still no smoking gun of Roddenberry planning on having Spock married off by the end of TOS had it not been cancelled. That’s controversial, not because it involves Spock getting married, but for the same reason if someone made the claim that Roddenberry wanted Nurse Chapel to have a baby to raise during the last season — it’s a radical departure from what we officially know about Gene Roddenberry’s involvement in Star Trek until his death and how TOS actually turned out. NOT the act of marriage or having a child as Jemini twists my intent for her own agenda.

Perhaps you are the one to verify — I can’t find anywhere in canon that asserts Sarek ONLY had two sons. Perhaps you can point to the source to support this claim made by Jemini? Canon in fact tells us Sarek had at least three sons, including the giant clone of Spock encountered in TAS — perhaps it is this son that got married?

158. Baroness Elf - August 3, 2014

NO. 
It’s my favorite part of the reboot the relationship & I can’t wait to see what star trek 3 has in store for them, the actors have chemistry.
They have the best scenes for me, in the last movie they nailed that speech when he admitted that he cares for her. Spock is my favorite character since decades and I’m happy with what the writers had done with him so far. Even Nimoy loved new Spock and the romance.
The interviever should take several seats Uhura’s part of the team and she was largely improved in the reboot it’s the one thing the writers did right. Love her.

159. dmduncan - August 3, 2014

Welcome back Pascale. I thought you were a goner.

160. Phil - August 3, 2014

Looks like Ms. Saldana has a hit on her hands with GOTG. I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong, but the late great Mr. Predictor himself foresaw the demise of Marvel by predicting this was going to crater, and rather badly.

Oh, well….I’m personally thinking the first megabucks superhero movie that’s going to crater will be the upcoming Batman vs. Superman…just a hunch.

161. Curious Cadet - August 3, 2014

@160. Phil,
“the first megabucks superhero movie that’s going to crater will be the upcoming Batman vs. Superman”

Just wait until you see Ben Affleck in his Batman costume … you don’t know how right you are …

162. Phil - August 3, 2014

@161…I don’t Bat Affleck will have enough screen time to make that much of an impression. They’ve cast, what, about eighty superheroes now to make an appearance? Not sure how badly you can screw up a movie when every character has two lines of dialog….which ultimately will be the movies undoing…

163. Disinvited - August 4, 2014

#161. Curious Cadet – August 3, 2014

At first blink, I would agree with you; even though I liked him in Daredevil, the public apparently did not. However I believe this feature intends to lean on the DC comics’ buddying up of the two heroes. So essentially it will be a bromance and Ben cut his movie acting eye-teeth on that. I think he might pull that off and ultimately succeed.

164. Curious Cadet - August 4, 2014

@163 Disinvited,

I’ve seen him in the batsuit … It ain’t pretty.

165. crazydaystrom - August 4, 2014

Batman v Superman is going to be HUGE! The first big screen appearance together of those two iconic characters, along with the first big screen appearance everof Wonder Woman as well! It may not match The Avengers box office but it will surely outmatch that film with pop-cultural resonance AND comicbook fanboy/girl significance. And IF the story turns out to be a good or (I dare dream) even great one, all bets are off.

BvS will NOT crater. It WILL do better box office than STID worldwide and could possibly near or even match Avengers box office.

BTW I still believe with just the right confluence of elements a billion $ Trek film is a possibility. Just, sadly, an improbability.

MHO

166. Disinvited - August 4, 2014

#157. Curious Cadet – August 3, 2014

What I’ve been able to dig up is apparently all of the pertinent memos that could answer your Sarek query were given to Marc Cushman long ago when he was working on the SAREK episode of TNG.

#162. Phil – August 3, 2014

Good lord, it sounds like they’ve turned it into the JLA movie proper.

# 165. crazydaystrom – August 4, 2014

” BTW I still believe with just the right confluence of elements a billion $ Trek film is a possibility. Just, sadly, an improbability.” — crazydaystrom

Funny you should mention that as the entertainment news is all aflutter about Paramount’s latest TRANSFORMERS installment breaking the billion $ record barrier.

Also says, Sony has taken over its GHOSTBUSTERS 3 and is shopping for a screenplay featuring the formation of an all female team of ghostbusters.

167. Phil - August 4, 2014

@166. BvS-JLA seems to be getting very, very crowded. And it seems they are adding characters during production. Yeah, I know there have been movies, where the script was written on the fly, that were successful, but most aren’t. It’s also not helping that Man of Steel isn’t one of those movies that gets better on multiple viewings.

It’ll make money, but not Avengers money.

168. Phil - August 4, 2014

@165. Sorry, but Trek isn’t a billion dollar franchise. If they can make a Trek feature for 150-175MM, and they make 500-600MM worldwide, that sure ensure a steady stream of Trek for a good, long time….assuming we can get decent scripts and get the turnaround time to 24-30 months. Four or five years between movies is just nonsense.

Oh, and decent means a passable story. Doesn’t have to be brilliant sci-fi, just an entertaining story. It should not be a two hour long fake physics lecture, or some esoteric insider story that only Gene Robbenberry would understand….

169. Marja - August 4, 2014

167 Phil, What is JLA ..?

Re: Abbreviations – I wish folks would spell it out at least once *then* use the abbreviations in their posts

—————————————————————————————–
Okay, not a huge comic book fan or Superhero comics fan in general but Batman Versus Superman just sounds stupid beyond belief. Just the title, I mean, without even trying to imagine what a ridiculous plot it’s probably going to be.

Not to mention I wasn’t that crazy about Man of Steel.

170. Marja - August 4, 2014

Re: This Whole NAKED magazine thing

I’m still waiting to see a similar spread with, say, Urban, Quinto, or Pine

171. Disinvited - August 4, 2014

#170. Marja – August 4, 2014

We should start a STAR TREK AFTER DARK magazine with the cover and in the center various notables au naturale in a different captain’s chair each month.

Too bad we’d never get the CBS license….

172. Phil - August 4, 2014

@169. Sorry – Justice League of America. JL has been around forever in animation and comic books….which I did read as a kid. I’m 50 now, so it’s been around a while.

Man of Steel did better then expected box office it’s opening weekend, but the nagging criticism was that the last act. was really just a blur of non-stop CGI….so, if you are Warner Brothers, and you want a piece of the Marvel pie, what do you do? MOS has Chris Nolan’s name on it, a hot commodity, Batman is still a hot commodity, you find a way to trot them out together in a hurry. The whole thing sounds rushed to me, and as they continued to cast more superheroes once the announcement was made to strikes me that there’s a ‘wouldn’t it be cool if…’ vibe around the whole production. If Warner Brothers doesn’t hit it out of the park like Marvel did with GOTG this weekend…I won’t say they failed, but if the movie only does MOS type box office it would not surprise me if future projects get yanked. Clearly Warner Brothers wants Batman vs. Superman to be a billion dollar movie, anything less is probably a failure. Personally, I don’t think it’s going to happen…..

173. Cygnus-X1 - August 4, 2014

170. Marja – August 4, 2014

Re: This Whole NAKED magazine thing

I’m still waiting to see a similar spread with, say, Urban, Quinto, or Pine

Are you sure that spread is the word that you want to use there?

174. crazydaystrom - August 4, 2014

168. Phil
“@165. Sorry, but Trek isn’t a billion dollar franchise.”

It certainly has not been. And the likelihood of it ever being one is, as I said, an improbability. But i still stand by my assertion/belief (qualified by the phrase “with just the right confluence of elements”) of the possibility.

Bad Robot may not be able to do it but someone, somewhere…somewhen could. There’s nothing inherent of Star Trek that would preclude this occurring. IMO

175. crazydaystrom - August 4, 2014

172. Phil
” Clearly Warner Brothers wants Batman vs. Superman to be a billion dollar movie, anything less is probably a failure. Personally, I don’t think it’s going to happen…..”

Sure WB would want it to be a billion$ movie but I’m not sure if anything less would be considered a failure exactly. Three times production cost, whatever that turns out to be, I’m sure will make them very happy and be considered a success.

BvS will do well and will not “crater”, by any definition of the term.

172-
“The whole thing sounds rushed to me, and as they continued to cast more superheroes once the announcement was made to strikes me that there’s a ‘wouldn’t it be cool if…’ vibe around the whole production.”

Don’t know if it’s being rushed Phil. It was originally slated the be released in 2015 but was pushed back to 2016 in order to ‘do all proper’, as it were. I do agree with you about the “wouldn’t it be cool if” vibe though. Actually, it would be cool if… I hope Snyder pulls it off.

176. crazydaystrom - August 4, 2014

169. Marja
“Batman Versus Superman just sounds stupid beyond belief. Just the title, I mean, without even trying to imagine what a ridiculous plot it’s probably going to be.”

Not fond of that title myself Marja, at all. But indications are Superman against Batman in the film is based on (or inspired by) a famous conflict the characters had in the seminal Dark Knight Returns miniseries/graphic novel from the 80’s. I was reading comics at the time and that was good stuff. Very good stuff.

177. Disinvited - August 4, 2014

#176. crazydaystrom – August 4, 2014

It is a puzzler how the bean counters figured BvS was more marketable than BRAVE AND BOLD or WORLD’S FINEST?

178. Red Dead Ryan - August 4, 2014

Yup, “Superman Vs. Batman: Dawn Of Justice” is based on the classic “Dark Knight Returns” comic. As for Ben Affleck, he was good as Daredevil, and he was good in “Argo”.

He also played George Reeves in “Hollywoodland”, and he got high praise.

The “Dark Knight Returns” is also a DC Universe animated movie, starring STID’s Peter Weller as an older Bruce Wayne/Batman.

I think SVB will do fine at the box office. It’s still just under two years away.

179. Red Dead Ryan - August 4, 2014

Also, I thought “Man Of Steel” was great. The only problem I had with it was that he climactic battle went on way too long.

Apart from that, it was a great way to reintroduce Superman. I like the “Batman Begins” approach in regards to casting acclaimed actors like Laurence Fishbourne, Diane Lane, and Kevin Costner to surround a relatively unkown lead actor in Henry Cavill.

I think as long as Chris Nolan remains attached as producer, the movies will continue to be good.

180. crazydaystrom - August 4, 2014

177. Disinvited

“It is a puzzler how the bean counters figured BvS was more marketable than BRAVE AND BOLD or WORLD’S FINEST?”

Yeah, both great titles I would’ve preferred. WORLD’S FINEST would’ve been perfect. No doubt WB will use them both eventually.

Now I think about it Batman v Superman probably is more marketable world wide in a King Kong vs Godzilla/Alien vs Predator/least common denominator/name recognition sort if way. Oh well. I just hope the movie’s good and Snyder avoids the excesses of Man of Steel.

181. crazydaystrom - August 4, 2014

178. Red Dead Ryan

Affleck’s going to be a good Batman. And Cavill’s a fine Superman. I’m just hoping Gal Gadot can do Wonder Woman justice (no pun intended).

182. Harry Ballz - August 4, 2014

The Wonder Bra company should snap Gal Gadot up as their spokesperson!

183. Disinvited - August 5, 2014

# 180. crazydaystrom – August 4, 2014

” Now I think about it Batman v Superman probably is more marketable world wide” — crazydaystrom

Not really, they change the title for whatever plays better in that market. For example, I recall the Russian title for STID was something like: STAR TREK VENGEANCE.

184. Curious Cadet - August 5, 2014

@174. crazydaystrom,
“Bad Robot may not be able to do it but someone, somewhere…somewhen could. There’s nothing inherent of Star Trek that would preclude this occurring.”

I think you’re wrong about this. Star Trek may inherently be a niche audience franchise. Unlike Star Wars, there’s no princess, there’s no soap opera. There’s uniforms, and regulations, and politics (all things which arguably ruined the Star Wars prequels). In fact I can’t think of another billion dollar franchise which is as ordered as Trek. Most of them involve rebels of some sort. Harry Potter, Star Wars, Iron Man, The Avengers, X-Men, etc.

If Star Trek really wanted to break-out, they might focus on more stories like City on the edge of Forever, where Kirk has to rescue the girl and then sacrifice her in an epic conflict. Stories where they are out of uniform and acting outside Federation protocols, doing what’s right at the expense of the “rules”. I think these may all be turn offs to audiences, and add to the impression you have to know something about the universe to enjoy it. And to some extent I think these are things which Abrams attempted to fix in the last two films. But a story about a rogue admiral, and a lot of complicated political and strategic maneuvering killed the momentum he had coming off ST09.

185. Curious Cadet - August 5, 2014

They should just reintroduce the Batman and Superman characters in a parallel universe.

I think audiences would really respond to a Superman, where Clark’s arrival crushed his Earth father while working in the field. So Clark has to grow up with a mean step-dad, an absentee mom, and no one to guide him. He could be a rebel, spoiling for bar fights, until Uncle Sam comes along and recruits him, and challenges him to live up to his gifts. Then after a truncated term at Westpoint, he suddenly comes into his own as he thwarts an alien who tries to destroy the Earth, after which he is promoted to a 5-Star General and tasked with defending the Earth, by recruiting a league of former vigilante crime fighters, the first of whom is a playboy millionaire who in this universe never lost his father, but still masquerades as a bat getting even with the punk kids who wronged him or his friends who otherwise slip through the justice system unpunished. And of course Batman would be in a romantic relationship with Wonder Woman, and they would fight all the time while fighting crime together. I’m sure the Superman and Batman fans would really go for this kind of reboot.

186. Cygnus-X1 - August 5, 2014

184. Curious Cadet – August 5, 2014

I think you’re wrong about this. Star Trek may inherently be a niche audience franchise.

TNG averaged an 11% Nielsen rating during its initial run. That translates to 11 million regular viewers and doesn’t take into account viewers outside the US or syndication. It definitely had general audience appeal.

187. Phil - August 5, 2014

@184. Generally, I’d agree about the niche market franchise – though I think that it’s a big enough niche that, done properly, Trek should be a consistent 500-600MM WW box office performer. I’d focus on a two or three movie arc for the franchise, you can tell a decent story, and release the movies 12 months apart, which keeps the franchise fresh.

The Marvel movies have done a decent job with the 67/33 rule for box office split, the Batman Man of Steel numbers were closer to 60/40 or 50/50, which tends to suggest they didn’t quite have the same overseas appeal. Trek falls into this category, so Paramount is really going to need the next one to breakout to keep the franchise going. Just look at what happened with Spider-Man at Sony – great WW box office, so/so in North America…and Spidy 3 got shoved way out in the schedule in lieu of Sinister Six and female spider people.

188. Son of Captain Garth - August 5, 2014

Is anyone else just OVER the whole mopey superhero thing? Oh, my God–I am so TIRED of grim, grim, grim. Heaven forbid anyone have fun at a comic book movie. If I wanted to see grim, broken people, I’d hang out at Denny’s and save myself some money.

I certainly don’t want to return to the slapstick days of Joel Schumacher’s Batman, but c’mon people–how about some optimism? We’ve already had to endure three angst-ridden Batman movies and the damn-near apocalyptic Man of Steel. Of course, they’re going to go that direction in the Avengers, too. Even the JJ movies, for all their faults, are at least somewhat optimistic.

If I wanted to be depressed, I could read Russian literature or watch the news.

189. Phil - August 5, 2014

@188. It’s the hot property at the moment, and will probably remain so until one tanks. I’ve liked the Marvel movies, but didn’t see IM3, Thor2 and ASM until they hit cable, and still haven’t seen CA2, ASM2, Transformers 4….and don’t have a burning desire to see GOTG. At some point superhero fatigue will set in, then it’s back to the drawing board…

190. Curious Cadet - August 5, 2014

@186. Cygnus-X1,
“TNG averaged an 11% Nielsen rating during its initial run.”

As Phil said it’s a large niche. But I maintain Star Trek is not a billion dollar franchise. It simply isn’t that broad an appeal. If TNG had maintained the TV audience percentage to the box office, the TNG film numbers would have been much better than they were.

191. Phil - August 5, 2014

@190 CBS/Paramount caught lightening in a bottle with TNG – subsequent Trek shows were not able to hold the audience, and the TOS crew was a bigger draw in the movies. The Trek fanbase is also aging – it’s good news that the BR films were able to energize a younger audience, but bad news that they can’t seem to spit out a movie in less then four years, so that younger audience gets siphoned off by franchises that can kick out a movie every 12-18 months. It will be eight years between BR Treks 1-3, for three movies. The Hunger Games will kick out four movies in just under five years – that’s where the audience is now.

192. Disinvited - August 6, 2014

#191. Phil – August 5, 2014

“CBS/Paramount caught lightening in a bottle with TNG” — Phil

Indeed again, after first catching it after buying the bottle from Desilu.

193. Curious Cadet - August 6, 2014

@191. Phil
” it’s good news that the BR films were able to energize a younger audience, but bad news that they can’t seem to spit out a movie in less then four years”

In total agreement there. But the question I would ask is whether it’s just the time lapse between movies? The outstanding flaws of STID aside, is the renewed interest in Star Trek sustainable after ST09? Would a better story and quicker release have pushed interest in Star Trek toward the billion dollar mark? I still say no. STID did better than ST09 because Paramiunt kicked their international marketing machine into high gear. But the question remains, all things being equal is that about the best Trek can expect to do?

After the initial excitement, are general audiences simply not as interested in the on-going format? Even Star Wars was unable to maintain the momentum of the 1977 hit over the much more tightly knit trilogy … How could Trek expect to do any better? And for the ST09 (and STID International audiences) it’s essentially the same phenomenon, with many of the new audiences experiencing the franchise for the first time. The old fans are always going to be there (regardless of what some of the hard core fans claim), but new audiences may not be drawn in to the essential elements of the Trek format, the way other franchises appeal to them. And not every film can have the uplifting excitement and wonder of the first origin film.

This is why I say, Trek may have peaked at what it can do at the box office. The next film will definitely be telling in its ability to draw a mainstream audience. That’s why I hope Orci gets the story right, and directs an exciting movie, so there’s no question what’s drawing audiences. However, to a much lesser extent, like STV; STID may turn off a few general audience patrons from seeing the next one regardless how well it redeems the franchise.

194. Son of Captain Garth - August 6, 2014

#189 If you ever do “have a burning desire to see GOTG,” I’d recommend penicillin–especially if the “burning desire” occurs when you pee. I can identify; I once saw a Madonna film and had the same sensation. Can you get STDs via VHS?

Better call McCoy and hope he has a cure.

195. spooky - August 6, 2014

I think they should just let go of the Spock/Uhura love storyline.
It just does not work. To me, it just cheapens the characters in a way that I feel makes them less professional. I can’t take them seriously anymore.

The 2009 movie kind of set the tone; That scene where Uhura brow beats Spock into putting her on the Enterprise. OMG, I cringe at the scene every time I see it.
It made Uhura look cheap! Oh… I’m sleeping with Spock, I think I’ll demand my way onto the Enterprise….

/: o

Uhura does not need to be defined as a character because of her relationship with Spock. The same goes for Spock… he’s less interesting this way because WE’VE SEEN THESE TYPES OF STORIES ON TEEN TELEVISION PROGRAMS!

The Uhura, I want to see is one who uses more of her linguistic skills and intelligence. I want to see more of her explorer instinct being utilized.

Instead, she is the love interest in an otherwise blah storyline… seriously that’s the best they have in store for her. What’s shocking is Zoe is asking for more…

I want this Uhura to drop this foolish relationship thing and go off and explore alien heiroglyphs on some unknown alien world. She should seek out these types of challenges as an explorer… not fawning over Spock.

Bleh.

Instead, her highlight reel will consist of her… throwing stuff around because Spock is being a bad boyfriend, pining over Spock, being angry at Spock. arguing in front of her superior officer because of Spock.

Heck, If I was flying that shuttle during the Kronos flyover, I’d friggin’ fly that shuttle into a friggin’ mountain and be done with it.

:(

196. Disinvited - August 6, 2014

# 193. Curious Cadet – August 6, 2014

“However, to a much lesser extent, like STV; STID may turn off a few general audience patrons from seeing the next one regardless how well it redeems the franchise.” — Curious Cadet

Unless, of course, Paramount continues with its course of marketing that you do not have to see any of the previous Treks to thoroughly enjoy the current. The next one may actually benefit from them sticking to this course if what you surmise is correct.

197. Harry Ballz - August 6, 2014

@194 Son of Captain Garth “Can you get STDs via VHS?”

No, but you can get STID on DVD!

198. Disinvited - August 6, 2014

Rita Moreno fascinated me all my life for a variety of reasons; one of which was that about every ten years or so she’d totally redefine her look. She’d look totally different to the point of not being easily recognizable, and yet remain as totally alluring and attractive as before.

I thought this was something uniquely hers until I saw Zoe on some late night talk show. Now I’m not sure what brought this out or whether it was something effected by her pregnancy, but it didn’t seem to be something she was consciously doing but nevertheless as the interview went on she assumed subtle changes in posture and positioning of her head that made her look totally different – almost like a chameleon – and each gorgeous.

I don’t know if this is something to do with the two women’s common background in dance, or culture, or Puerto Rican dancing in general but it is…fascinating.

199. Hevel - August 7, 2014

Me thinks the haters should just let go of the Spock/Uhura storyline, not the writers.

I don’t get the hate, and all these arguments are just nonsense to me.
The relationship is my favorite thing of the reboot since the first movie and many think the same. It’s v charming and makes them both more interesting, to me.

It’s the most talked about thing of these movies and it makes people feel, one way or another. Maybe they should keep it for this reason alone.

Zoe Saldana is a goddess! It’s always a pleasure to watch her interviews because she’s not just beautiful, but intelligent and charming too.
Her husband is one lucky ba-man! Zachary Quinto too.

200. Hevel - August 7, 2014

198. Disinvited

I agree. Maybe it’s a thing of latin women and I dig it.

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