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Pegg: It Makes ‘Perfect Sense’ For Orci To Direct Next Star Trek August 11, 2014

by TrekMovie.com Staff , Filed under: ST: Into Darkness Sequel , trackback

peggorci

The new Scotty is talking about the next Star Trek and how he thinks Bob Orci is the right choice to direct it. He also has some thoughts on JJ Abrams involvement in the movie. More details from new BBC interview below

Pegg talks Orci

While promoting his new movie Hector and the Pursuit of Happiness (opening this week in the UK), Simon Pegg talked to the BBC about Star Trek, revealing how Roberto Orci told him that he would be directing the next Star Trek movie (expected in 2016). From the article:

"He emailed me before the news broke saying: ‘Hey man, I might be doing this, shall we nerd out?,’ said Pegg who plays Montgomery "Scotty" Scott.

"He’s a good friend, he’s very much part of the Star Trek family," he added.

Pegg (a self-described ‘nerd’) went on to offer this praise for Orci and how he understands Star Trek:

"I’m really happy he’s doing it as it’s kept within the family kind of thing, it’s not somebody coming in from outside…Bob’s been there since the first Star Trek – by that I mean the 2009 one – so it seemed to make perfect sense that he come in as a director on this one because he gets it. He was always the most Trekkie of all of those guys anyway, he’s always understood the story the best so it’s great that he’s going to be involved in the writing and directing."

Simon also noted that while JJ Abrams isn’t returning to direct for a third Trek film (as he is currently directing the next Star Wars movie) he is still involved as a producer, noting:

"I don’t think JJ would be able to let it completely go because that’s not in his nature."

More from Pegg at the BBC, including his thoughts on spoilers and JJ Abrams new Star Wars movie.

Pegg’s ‘Happiness’ Movie Opening in Europe This Week

Simon Pegg stars as the title character is Hector and the Search for Happiness, which opens in the UK, Ireland and Germany this week. It opens in the USA on September 19th.


UK trailer for "Hector and the Search for Happiness"

Here is a fun video of Pegg promoting the movie by being interviewed by Comedy Central’s computer, including calling Jar Jar Binks a “rabbit-eared dick.”

Simon Pegg: Jar Jar Binks is a Rabbit-Eared Dick
Get More: Simon Pegg: Jar Jar Binks is a Rabbit-Eared Dick

Thanks to Paul for tip

Comments

1. Phil - August 11, 2014

Well, lets see how long it takes the complainers to chime in….

2. Chain of Command - August 11, 2014

Bob Orci,

I didn’t really have an issue with the new Trek films. Thought they were great fun. I would love to see you guys do something akin to “The Immunity Syndrome”, or something like that. Get as far away from Earth and the Federation as possible and do something really bizarre :-).

3. Danpaine - August 11, 2014

No complaining here, just a suggestion that his character gets a little more ‘weighted’ material this time around. Scotty in this new timeline has come across as a sort of goofball.

The character of Montgomery Scott is a serious man who has the capacity for humor, but doesn’t need to rely on it to get through the day. In others words, he needs to be more of a bada**.

4. Disinvited - August 11, 2014

#1. Phil – August 11, 2014

He’s saying things that I agree with in regards that this is is the best possible scenario we can expect from this incarnation of Paramount.

The only troubling thing is Pegg doesn’t exactly have a consistent history of shooting straight about a Trek in production that’s featuring him.

5. El Chup - August 11, 2014

@1

Not too long I’m afraid.

I, for one, will not be paying to see this at the door after the mess of Into Darkness. It will be the first Star Trek film I have not seen in the cinema in 35 years, such was I appalled and offended by the most recent effort.

I don’t care much about how many fanwank nods Orci can squeeze in, it doesn’t make him a fan who actually gets what Roddenberry was trying to accomplish. The fact is that this current group of filmmakers don’t get what Star Trek is about and why it has endured. Intelligent stories of exploration and human discovery (both of new worlds and of humanity itself) are what makes Star Trek stand out from the crowd and what has kept it going for all these years are a franchise of inspiration and one that bucks the trend of most others. The first JJ movie lacked that spirit, but it could be allowed because it was a origin story. But the second is where the chance to get back to what Star Trek does best was presented and ready to use, with a blank slate available no less. Instead we get rehashed plots and blockbuster summer action fare, which ultimately makes for a movie that makes a load of money in the short term from the action-to-order generation, but ultimately gets forgotten over time. In other words, the studio has become so short-sighted that they think it’s all about initial box office return and just assume that the loyal Trekkies will be there in the longer term whatever mindless crap they spit out. They don’t seem to get that Star Trek endured and because a money making machine over the long term because it’s ideas, uniqueness and appeal stood the test of time and kept the show going years after it went off air. This latest movies, especially Into Darkness, have none of that uniqueness. They just suck off the teat of past ideas and through what is milked from that into a hash of explosions and set pieces.

What’s more, in my personal opinion a true Star Trek fan, who gets what the franchise is about, is not the sort of man who launches childish rants at fans and demeans them (without knowing who they are and what they themselves do for a living) and then doesn’t even bother to apologise! Orci lost me when he did that I’m afraid and even if the next movie truly gets Trek, I’ll not be lining up to pay for it as I refuse to pay for anything helmed by that man after his atrocious behaviour.

6. hooch - August 11, 2014

Simon Pegg just seems like an eternally optimistic guy. I’m hoping his faith is well-placed.

7. El Chup - August 11, 2014

@4

Yeah, Pegg understands Trek so much that in response to even a shred of critcism over STID he tells fans to f*ck off. If he understood Trek he’d at least sit down and take that on board, even if he ultimately didn’t accept it. I think Pegg’s nerd credentials are over-egged somewhat. After all, this is the same guy who railed against Lucas for the Star Wars prequels but didn’t hesitate to run and kiss George’s arse when he was offered a part in the Clone Wars show. Pegg’s integrity only goes as far as his bank balance, then he’ll blow in whatever direction it takes to get his pocket lined and his career chugging along.

8. T'Cal - August 11, 2014

I liked ST09, loved STID, and am looking forward to the third film.

Damn…

9. Silvereyes - August 11, 2014

#1 yeah, but the worse are the ones who complain about the complainers, before they even manifest themselves…

I’m just hoping Bob is not as maniacal with secrecy as JJ was…

10. Finnigan - August 11, 2014

#1. More tears because there are actually people who have been fans of Trek for going on 50 years that don’t care for the Abrams/Orci interpretation of Star Trek? Are you insecure and would prefer that there be no opinions counter to yours?

I did not like STID. It was poorly written and directed. It was an action movie that depended upon special effects more than story. That’s my opinion.

I believe Orci is not a visionary and believe that he does not have the chops to direct a Trek movie. Also my opinion.

As for Pegg, sorry laddy, but you are no authority on Star Trek.

I ask again, what would Gene Roddenberry and Gene L. Coon have to say about NuTrek? Has anyone seen comments by Dorthy Fontana regarding NuTrek? I’d be curious what she thinks.

11. Lt. Bailey - August 11, 2014

What I would like Mr Orci do next year is some kind of publicity at the ST Cons. SD Comic Con gets all the preview/upcoming movie news for all types of films so why cannot we have a simiilar thing going on for us ST fans at the Cons we attend.

True, it might be hard to get up to the minute news about the 2016 film when Creations has 4 or 5 cons during the year. Then that leads one to consider, do they pick one con (Vegas being the biggest) or spread it out over the cons during that year?

Tough call, but is this preview stuff up to the director or the studio ? Perhaps Creations is barred from doing publicity as that is from the studio PR dept? Who knows, but it would be nice to see something or get details at the ST Cons. What better place to generate a buzz (both alcoholic and non-alcoholic) going when you have such a huge attendance?

12. Ahmed - August 11, 2014

@ 9. Silvereyes – August 11, 2014

“#1 yeah, but the worse are the ones who complain about the complainers, before they even manifest themselves…”

LOL

13. Ahmed - August 11, 2014

Interesting to hear such an honest opinion from Pegg, the man tell no lies !!

===============
Pegg: “[Benedict Cumberbatch's character is] not just another disgruntled alien. It’s a really interesting… sort of… thing. Obviously I can’t talk about it… It’s not Khan. That’s a myth. Everyone’s saying it is, but it’s not… I think people just want to have a scoop. It annoys me – it’s beyond the point to just ferret around for spoilers all the time to try to be the first to break them. It masquerades as interest in the movie but really it’s just nosiness and impatience. You just want to say, ‘Oh f— off! Wait for the film!’”

14. Spectre-7 - August 11, 2014

What many are forgetting is that these new Trek movies are also targeting a more mainstream crowd…

So just be thankful we Bob at the helm because “Red Matter” would be some really complex science compared to whatever Michael Bay would throw at us!

—–

BOB: More Immersion! That’s one thing STID really does better than ST09, it’s all in the details! (but I suppose it’s also thanks to the bigger budget)

Also, that idea you said you had for STID, where you show the Federation rallying behind a devastated Vulcan? Still sounds like an awesome thing to do!

15. ado - August 11, 2014

And no long assed platform jumps…..

16. El Chup - August 11, 2014

@14

So we should be grateful for a small pile of steaming cat poo instead a a rather large steaming pile of dog’s mess? No, sorry pal. Not me.

It is entirely possible to do and intelligent movie that still retains enough action to keep the mainstream moviegoer happy. I cite the recent Dawn of the Planet of the Apes as a great example.

17. Androide - August 11, 2014

Paramount set a release date for a Ninja Turtles sequel (June 3, 2016) just one day after it’s opening and we still wait for an announcement on the big Star Trek anniversary and it’s schedule. :-(

18. Dswynne - August 11, 2014

Okay.

19. Ensign Ricky - August 11, 2014

I am hoping they remake the episode “Spocks Brain”. Imagine the possibilities.

20. Keachick (Rose) - August 11, 2014

Well, Phil, you certainly lifted the lid off a pile of smelly worms, not that they weren’t already worming their way out anyway…:)

Oh dear – they just can’t help themselves, can they?…sigh…

Oh – and I agree with Simon Pegg. I have always stated that I am (cautiously) optimistic about Bob Orci sitting in the director’s chair this time round. Also, if this makes me some silly fangirl who apparently doesn’t get Star Trek, despite having seen it since 1968, so be it…:(

From what I have read here, a lot do not seem to get Star Trek either, particularly, ironically, the ones most critical of the latest efforts.

El Chup – I’d rather have to clean up cat or dog poo than read your literary offerings to this thread/site.

21. B Kramer - August 11, 2014

Phil you just chimed in yourself. So that didn’t taken long. ;’^)

22. Disinvited - August 11, 2014

# 17. Androide – August 11, 2014

” Paramount set a release date for a Ninja Turtles sequel (June 3, 2016) just one day after it’s opening and we still wait for an announcement on the big Star Trek anniversary and it’s schedule. :-(” — Androide

It is interesting that they did that with no script, isn’t it?

23. El Chup - August 11, 2014

@20

Well, you’d best go find some some cat poo then because you’ve obviously read my “literary offerings” to the site already.

May I suggest the DVD of Star Trek Into Darkness? :)

24. Keachick (Rose) - August 11, 2014

El Chup – For the record, I have had to deal (at times, quite extensively as on a daily/nightly basis) with baby poo, human poo and vomit (enough to have me produce some of my own – not a good state), cat and kitten poo, dog poo, *rabbit poo, *guinea pig poo (something that will require my attention in the next few minutes), bird poo, cow and bull poo, sheep poo, goat poo. I had the interesting experience once of stepping into freshly delivered cow poo…

So, as you can see, I am well acquainted with poo and urine but at least this is good, wholesome matter, most of which could be used to help bring lovely flowers to bloom – unlike the kind of stuff that you bring here.

* It is the urine of these animals, in particular, that is more of a *problem* than the dry poo pellets (the animal is sick if the poo is not whole or dryish).

25. Lainey Dudley - August 11, 2014

E chub
Paramount won’t miss your money.

26. CmdrR - August 11, 2014

I’m confident in Bob Orci’s skill.
I am hoping against hope that he takes risks and shows us something truly dazzling. It doesn’t have to be perfect… just his own.

27. Lainey Dudley - August 11, 2014

Sorry el chub

28. Keachick (Rose) - August 11, 2014

#23 – And may I suggest that you acquaint yourself with real poo. Maybe volunteering at an animal shelter may do the trick.

I have the DVD of Star Trek Into Darkness. I bought it on the day of its release in NZ, so you do not need to bother yourself on my account in that respect.

29. Anthony Pascale - August 11, 2014

warning to Chup
that kind of language and attack just isn’t the type of thing to do here.

30. Paul - August 11, 2014

Its makes perfect sense for someone else to direct this. Lets hope Paramount change their mind as its not official yet that way Orci would then walk away forever from Trek hopefully!

31. Ahmed - August 11, 2014

@29. Anthony Pascale -

“warning to Chup
that kind of language and attack just isn’t the type of thing to do here.”

Just out of curiosity, what about this ?

=============
20. Keachick (Rose) – August 11, 2014

Well, Phil, you certainly lifted the lid off a pile of smelly worms, not that they weren’t already worming their way out anyway…:)

El Chup – I’d rather have to clean up cat or dog poo than read your literary offerings to this thread/site.
……………….
And may I suggest that you acquaint yourself with real poo. Maybe volunteering at an animal shelter may do the trick.

32. Anthony Pascale - August 11, 2014

warning to all poo and poo-related commenters

33. Digsthenutrek - August 11, 2014

I love TOS/DS9/VOY. I love nu trek as well. I felt the movies encompassed the spirit of the original series and the characters. I also hope that it returns to TV soon. However, I wish they would put an experienced sci fi director in for Star Trek 13 and more seasoned writers than two guys who worked on a graphic novel, for the big 50, if we even get a movie. The first two movies were fine for the off years, but this is the 50th anniversary!!! I am disappointed by Paramount’s treatment of the franchise going into the future.

34. Silvereyes - August 11, 2014

20 Keachick (Rose)

“El Chup – I’d rather have to clean up cat or dog poo than read your literary offerings to this thread/site.”

Rose, I see you are as adept at making friends as always, as your continued predilection for gratuitous insults demonstrates…

35. Sam - August 11, 2014

Come on Paramount and Abrams, fish or cut bait already. Stop holding up production and make a decision already. The fans want a new movie. The wait was too long last time. Without the fans you have nothing. RESPECT US OR LOOSE US! ITS TIME FOR PRODUCTION TO PROCEED AT WARP SPEED!!!!

36. Bill Peters - August 11, 2014

I think they will tell us a Release date before or Shortly after the new year….they have a Production date for next Summer so I am betting they will give us a release date as well soon, I really agree with #26, also Great to have you back Anthony.

37. Platitude - August 11, 2014

I enjoyed the last two movies a lot, but I think the idea of this new one taking place during the five year mission out in space is still a really exciting prospect. I think having a fan in the director’s chair is certainly not a bad thing.

Folks should reserve judgment until we get more concrete details on the film.

38. Keachick (Rose) - August 11, 2014

@ Anthony Pascale – Agreed.

However, this is not the first time that some posters have alluded to animal poo in relating to BR Star Trek films. I find it intellectually insulting and a lacking of reality, hence my comments.

No more talk of poo of any kind, unless it is actually relevant.

39. B Kramer - August 11, 2014

32 Now that is some funny sh….
Sorry nevermind, – couldn’t resist.

40. Kirk's Girdle - August 11, 2014

It makes perfect sense in a world full of young and talented directors, who presumably could be familiar with this thing called Star Trek and who perhaps have experience in getting projects off the ground with ingenuity, on-time and on-budget to go with not “THE writer” but “A writer” of the last two films and the upcoming film?

I don’t even know how you get the gig of only writing when you have somewhere between one and six additional people to work with, but I admire Orci for securing it and making it so lucrative.

This “in the family” stuff, which is so prevalent in Bad Robot productions, isn’t necessarily in Star Trek’s best interest.

41. Commodore Adams - August 11, 2014

Just want to make one note.

I just saw Guardians of The Galaxy and in my opinion that movie portrayed the idea of a “federation” better than Star Trek 2009 or into darkness. “A peacekeeping and humanitarian armada” isn’t really eloquent nor does it paint a big picture. And granted in Kirks time, although the Federation was vast and inclusive, there weren’t many non Terrans serving in Starfleet, so that was accurately portrayed in the movies.

I am extremely happy at the deep space prospect. But I would like something unique. More Nolans interstellar, less Transformers/Ninja Turtles/Avengers these movies are all the same kinda deal.

Watching Guardian, I’m thinking, this is a test run for Star Wars, had many “Star Warsy” feeling moments. Im thinking, this is what the new Star Wars is going to feel like + Jedi + The Force. There were a few Trek moments like villains ship crashing into the city. Yea, like that wasn’t taken out of Into Darkness. I guess they just feed the mindless movie goers what they want, my brain requires something more to be satisfied beyond the surface. Uniqueness appears not to be the name of the game.

42. dmduncan - August 11, 2014

And I agree with Simon Pegg. It’s great when someone takes a chance on you when you might seem an unlikely candidate. It’s great when people have faith in you and are willing to give you the chance to prove yourself instead of trying to figure out your appropriateness like you are a factor in a mathematical equation, or based on some unintelligent set of criteria.

The world runs on stoopid, so it’s nice when someone makes a decision that looks intelligent rather than automatic.

43. Marja - August 11, 2014

Simon’s new movie looks great. ” ‘appEness” hahaha!

As for the rest, give him a break, guys. He’s naturally shilling for the Trek movie — he’s gonna be employed in it. You support your product, and maybe, just maybe, speak truth once it’s all over with, but usually in Hollywood it’s “love” all around. Nobody says, “Oh this movie’s gonna be awful, just awful if so-and-so produces/ directs/ co-stars in it.” Nobody.

44. Gurney Halleck - August 11, 2014

At this point, I’m fascinated by this new franchise for being such a train wreck.

The other day on youtube I saw a short video about the 1972 Star Trek convention. Clearly all these fans were responding to something in those Star Trek stories that excited them and engage their wonder. Their enthusiasm for Star Trek is so fresh, innocent and touching — it almost brought tears to my eye. The video also included the great Isaac Asimov opining about what made Star Trek interesting and engaging as science fiction. Can JJTrek inspire people that way?

Let’s be honest. There were always those who looked at Star Trek, and what I described above, and responded with “Eww. That’s not for me.” This was why Star Trek was never “cool.” It did have a broad enough appeal to sustain various incarnations and movies, but only because the English speaking world is huge and contains a lot of people not automatically turned off by fantasy/science fiction, a lot of people who were willing to endure some corniness as a price of imaginative storytelling.

J.J Abrams and his “Star Trek” writing crew are the sort who looked at Star Trek in their youth and went “eww.” Abrams himself said as much. Which is why this series is an unsatisfying disaster. Give me “Generations” and “Final Frontier” any day.

Which brings me to why this series has now become fascinating. How much lower will these non-Trekies sink? What else will they blow up?

45. Red Dead Ryan - August 11, 2014

So much negativity here…..so much of the “blah, blah, I hate nuTrek” and “blah, blah, Bad Robot destroyed my precious Star Trek, blah blah, blah” attitude and whining going on.

Why don’t the bunch of you just move on and let the rest of us (the vast majority, btw) enjoy nuTrek?

46. richpit - August 11, 2014

I’m always amazed at all the “nuTrek” haters and how so many alleged Star Trek fans would rather have NO TREK AT ALL then at least something that is trying to keep the flame lit on an otherwise dead franchise.

If it wasn’t for JJ Trek, Star Trek would be dead…unless you count the fan productions.

My opinion.

47. Lurker - August 11, 2014

The English speaking world wasn’t huge enough to sustain Star Trek with movies like Generations and Final Frontier…let alone the double mess of Insurrection and Nemesis.

The most popular mainstream ST movies were Voyage Home and First Contact. Both time travel movies with the Earth in peril once again.

So, the studio says to Bad Robot – hey, give us more of the same – because that will put fannies in the seats again.

If the nuTrek haters want to complain, then go ahead – but direct it to Paramount. They hired Bad Robot to do a job and they have done exactly what they were hired to do.

And what Star Trek movie could be called great science fiction or inspiring? The closest would be TMP, and we all know how the so called “fans” reacted to that.

48. Mike Barnett - August 11, 2014

I think Bob Orci will deliver what we all are looking for in the next movie. I don’t get why people are writing off the next movie before they hear anything about it. This defiess logic, in my humble opinion.

49. NuFan - August 11, 2014

Damn, I was going to post 12 paragraphs about poo.

If they get the foreign numbers up to Ninja Turtle levels, then they will get a one day announcement too. I know they will try.

50. B Kramer - August 11, 2014

45 rdr anyone who would blindly follow someone like mj (the “vast identities”) & all the trouble he caused and say that it was “glorious” like he was your cult leader like you did, should be the last to talk.

51. Jonboc - August 11, 2014

I find it amusing that so many detractors of JJ’s movie, seem to take it personally that, what they perceived as Trek’s “qualities”…over 50 years of watching 79 hours of TOS and 6 movies…wasn’t recreated, to their personal satisfaction, in 4 hours of screen time.
If Bad Robot’s Star Trek had 79 hours of screen time (which I sincerely wish was the case!) then you could consider a direct, apples-to-apples comparison. But, to expect Bad Robot to deliver 79 hours worth of storytelling and character development, in a 2 hour film, is hardly reasonable and barely rational…yet such comparisons flood these articles time and time again. To quote our friendly Vulcan…” Fascinating.

52. Ahmed - August 11, 2014

@ 45. Red Dead Ryan

“Why don’t the bunch of you just move on and let the rest of us (the vast majority, btw) enjoy nuTrek?”

The weird thing about SOME STID fans is their tendency to defend the movie, not by showing the merits of the movie itself, but by trying to silence the ones who happen to have different views.

53. Vultan - August 11, 2014

I’m going to reserve judgment until we at least get some kind of solid idea of what the next movie is about. Too many question marks at this point. The script hasn’t even been approved for production yet, correct?

So, it could be great and try something new. Could be another retread. Time will tell.

54. Ahmed - August 11, 2014

@53. Vultan

“The script hasn’t even been approved for production yet, correct?”

Bob said in the Vampire thread that he finished the first draft on August 8th.

55. Keachick (Rose) - August 11, 2014

#52 – I am pleased to see that you say “SOME STID fans”. I have written much on the merits of this movie and they are certainly there to be found.

56. Vultan - August 11, 2014

#54

Ah, thanks for the correction. So are they waiting for the green light now? Or has the green light already been given for the production? I don’t know. I haven’t been keeping close watch on this.

Thanks in advance, Ahmed.

57. Ahmed - August 11, 2014

@56. Vultan

“So are they waiting for the green light now? Or has the green light already been given for the production?”

Guess they are waiting for the yellow light to turns green!

Here is what Bob said in his reply to a comment from “Trip”.

======================
106. boborci – August 9, 2014

98. correct. the studio gets a draft when I give it to them. get it?

58. Marja - August 11, 2014

44 Halleck, J.J Abrams and his “Star Trek” writing crew are the sort who looked at Star Trek in their youth and went “eww.” Abrams himself said as much.
No, what Abrams said was that at a certain age, “when I was young, I didn’t get it.” That it was too Sci-Fi, and he liked the action and fantasy of SWars better. Orci has said he was introduced to Trek at a young age, and as a young Mexican-Cuban-American, related to Spock’s “outsider” status. I don’t remember about Kurtzman. I think he was a fan, but I don’t know of which iteration.

59. Disinvited - August 11, 2014

#49. NuFan – August 11, 2014

So what you are saying is that your 12 paragraphs got pooh-poohed by the Grand Pooh-Bah?

And let THAT be the last word on this tri-letter word mess.

60. Rob O - August 11, 2014

Don’t criticize Star Trek Into Disappointment, or the women and children will cry. You can’t blame Star Trek fans for being nervous after that sequel and the future of our beloved franchise hinging on the creative mind that brought us “The Amazing Spider-Man 2.” I hope to Shakaree that he proves me wrong.

61. Marja - August 11, 2014

51 Jonboc I find it amusing that so many detractors of JJ’s movie, seem to take it personally that, what they perceived as Trek’s “qualities”…over 50 years of watching 79 hours of TOS and 6 movies…wasn’t recreated, to their personal satisfaction, in 4 hours of screen time. … If Bad Robot’s Star Trek had 79 hours of screen time (which I sincerely wish was the case!) then you could consider a direct, apples-to-apples comparison. But, to expect Bad Robot to deliver 79 hours worth of storytelling and character development, in a 2 hour film, is hardly reasonable and barely rational…yet such comparisons flood these articles time and time again. To quote our friendly Vulcan…” Fascinating.

I am quoting your entire post because I wholeheartedly agree. While I do feel there could have been better writing, less action-y action, magical science and excessive violence and so on in the two movies, they are only two movies, i.e., four hours of screentime, and as such have been pretty harshly judged by the ClassicTrek fans. C’est la guerre.

62. Buzz Cagney - August 11, 2014

#60 i’m choosing to believe that Bob is the brains of the outfit and he was out-voted consistently on Into Dorkness by the lesser guys. Its helps to believe that. :)
Bob, prove me right.

63. El Chup - August 11, 2014

@51 you seem to forget that the very same challenge was faced by the makers of the TOS films

64. Disinvited - August 12, 2014

# 46. richpit – August 11, 2014

” If it wasn’t for JJ Trek, Star Trek would be dead…unless you count the fan productions. ” — richpit

I do count every fan effort to keep Trek alive for themselves, as that is how it survived long enough to make it further than its first series first season.

But as for your premature medical diagnosis, this is how I connect the dots:

Prior to JJ entering the picture Paramount’s Donald DeLine, who had a successful career as a hit movie producer in his own right, had enthusiastically commissioned BAND OF BROTHERS’ Erik Jendreson to write the script for ST11 which he delivered to Paramount on time.

Beginning in 2001, Les Moonves began a strategy leading to the ousting of Paramount/CBS executives that he perceived as standing in the way between him and his heading a media empire with a major motion picture studio, Paramount, as his crowning jewel. This eventually lead to a succession battle with Thomas E. Freston, who had equally ambitious designs. Sumner Redstone perceived the warring between these two factions as not being very productive and cutting into his bottom line; so, in 2005, he came up with a scheme to split Viacom in two with Les heading one part and Tom the other so he could get their energies to focus more on outdoing the other in bringing in revenue than messy office politics.

This apparent simple act was what lead to the upheaval of Paramount’s ongoing ST11 plans and NOT some imagined death of STAR TREK movie making within its ranks. The split, finalized in 2006, left Trek rent assundered with Paramount with its Trek movie library on one side of the aisle and CBS with all the Trek TV shows, licenses, and trademarks on the other. When the dust settled Donald DeLine was out at Paramount and Gail Berman, a television executive whose biggest claim to fame in these parts is being the FOX executive directly responsible for the series FIREFLY’s woes and cancellation, with no prior motion picture studio experience was in charge of Paramount’s Trek. In a classic case of “not invented here” and looking to make a name for herself in a field where she had none, she shelved Paramount’s existing script and sought to create a new “vision” drawing on her television strengths to find a path to success that could clearly be labelled hers and hers alone. This is what lead to JJ.

So you see, as regards Trek, its a nice myth to claim “JJ” saved something, but he couldn’t even save Gail’s [The woman who set all the dominoes in motion that lead to his being approached and hired for Trek.] job — by the end of 2006 she was out for all her troubles.

65. Cygnus-X1 - August 12, 2014

52. Ahmed – August 11, 2014

The weird thing about SOME STID fans is their tendency to defend the movie, not by showing the merits of the movie itself, but by trying to silence the ones who happen to have different views.

I’ve noticed this, too.

I never see people referencing would-be “classic” lines or scenes from either ST09 or STID, actually. I don’t see people often talking about how awesome this scene or that scene was, or about how either movie did a good job of illustrating a certain issue or showing us something meaningful about humanity.

Personally, my good-time memories of ST09 are of it being something new—a new style of Trek movie, the JJ Abrams style, complete with lens flares, etc…all very polished and slick looking plus a few funny lines in the movie.

The most worthwhile thing about ST09 for me wasn’t even really discussed in the movie—the MWI as time-travel plot device. We only learned about that little nugget from Orci discussing it here extra-cinematically, which I appreciate, but it also highlights what a missed opportunity it was for some substance in the movie. All in all, the 30 seconds of screen time devoted to addressing what should have been a mind-blowing, once-in-a-lifetime phenomenon for all of the characters in the movie did a poor job at explaining it and an even poorer job at blowing our minds with an inherently mind-blowing concept.

And I see even less passion about STID, though I actually enjoy some of the performances—Weller, Cumberbatch, Greenwood—better than the performances in ST09, on the whole.

Though, when I see people talking about how they like the characters in these movies, as often as not, they’re supplementing what is actually in the movie with their own sort of interpretations and backstories explaining the characters’ motives where they are inadequately (or not at all) explained in the actual movies.

So, where’s all the passion for BR Trek? I see people talk about those movies, but mainly in terms of them making money. What I don’t see is people making persuasive, inspiring comments about why they think those movies are so great. Instead, support for BR Trek most often seems to take the form of trying to stifle dissent and nonconformity or the “at least we’re getting something instead of nothing,” line of reasoning combined with the fear that if we complain too much, we’ll get nothing at all.

66. Cygnus-X1 - August 12, 2014

64. Disinvited – August 12, 2014

Thanks for the summary.

Another little detail in this story: having come from the TV side of the industry, Gail Berman might have been more familiar with and drawn to JJ Abrams from his TV work.

67. Mel - August 12, 2014

I know that Orci loves conspiracies, but I hope he won’t add one in the next movie. We already had it in the last movie with Admiral Marcus and what he has done. It would be nice if Starfleet and the Federation is shown as a nice, utopic place for a change. This also means, that no big major Federation planet will get destroyed and especially Earth, or at least a lot of people on it, is not in danger again.

68. Cygnus-X1 - August 12, 2014

P.S. And the action sequences.

I guess the action sequences are the most memorable parts of the BR Trek movies. JJ does know how to put together action sequences.

69. star trackie - August 12, 2014

Agreed on the action sequences. Brilliant stuff. And I remember waaaay when TMP came out and fans blasted it because, UNLIKE the TV series, it was void of good action. No fist fights and little ship to ship action. Fans called it the Motion-less Picture! And boy, were they right!
Fast forward 30 years and fans boo-hoo about JJ Trek having too much action! lol My guess, the action-less TNG and subsequent spin-offs desensitized fans to the point where they forgot that TOS was an action/adventure series! That, or the folks crying are really TNG fans anyway and never got TOS to begin with. Regardless, as long as Bad Robot remembers what TOS was all about, no worries. The first two were outstanding and I can’t wait for the next one! Good luck Bob Orci, I hope you’re at the helm!

70. Finnigan - August 12, 2014

@45 and others who don’t like being told that some people actually don’t like NuTrek:

So what you are saying is that if someone disagrees with you and “the majority”, a very random and less than scientific leap of speculation on your part, then they should just “go away”. In other words, your way or the highway. You don’t like the fact that MANY of us don’t care for what Abrams and Orci produced in the the last two films and because we are “negative” our opinions don’t count but yours does? What happened to Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations?

As for Abrams “saving” Star Trek, please…he was handed an opportunity to direct a Star Trek feature film. He didn’t lobby to “revive” Star Trek. And yes, he admits to having never really being a fan. That’s fine, but don’t attempt to make him a “born-again Trek Fan”. If it wasn’t Abrams it would have been someone else to do the re-boot on Star Trek. Stop making Abrams some type of savior. He’s not.

There are plenty of arguments that point to specific things in both NuTrek movies that are problems and do not reflect what Roddenberry set for the Star Trek universe. One only needs to pull-out the Writer’s Guide for TOS and TNG and you will find multiple things that don’t fit.

Sure, Abrams, Orci, and the rest of the NuTrek staff can re-write and re-interpret Trek, nobody is saying that they can’t. Many of us are saying that they shouldn’t and that is OUR opinion. They have the right and the means to re-write and do their own thing, but we also have the right to dislike it.

As a Star Trek fan who watched the show in the 1960s and participated in the original NYC conventions, the S.T.A.R. fan organization to get Trek back on the air, and wrote for a ST Fanzine, I have a deep appreciation for Star Trek, its history, and its fan base. I admit that there are some things that I enjoyed and appreciated in both movies, more so for the first film than the second. But, there is justified criticism of the writing for STID with multiple plot holes and devices that are obvious and disappointing. The Khan placement and use was weak, lazy, and the deception that took place with lies being told by cast and crew were disappointing. I question Bob Orci’s comments that he “listens” to the fan base as the decision to use the re-boot Khan was not only an obvious mistake, but showed a total ignorance of the advice and feedback that many Star Trek fans provided if he had indeed listened.

I know Orci has since apologized for his profanity-laced blow-up at fans that disagreed with him, but regardless, the damage was done. His comments, to include liking himself to being one of our “parents” was outrageous and showed a degree of arrogance that is hard to forget or forgive. Mr. Orci, I want to have confidence in you but your actions and words give me great pause. I wish you well if you are indeed to direct the next Trek film and I hope you truly are listening to what people are saying with regards to criticism, particularly the constructive criticism.

As for making Star Trek more “mainstream”, you remove what makes Star Trek so special when you try to make it more marketable by abandoning what Star Trek stood for and was about from the beginning. The 2009 re-boot tried to capture the spirit of Trek but STID abandoned it.

Those of us who are disappointed in NuTrek have a voice and we have every right to be heard.

As for the political correctness being displayed by being offended at the use of the word “p**”, give us a break! Really, people are being given warnings by the Admin for something so trivial and ridiculous? Come on lighten up and stop trying to shelter everyone from having their feelings hurt. The Final Frontier is not for the faint of heart. Put up you shields and face the fire instead of avoiding the heat.

71. Disinvited - August 12, 2014

# 66. Cygnus-X1 – August 12, 2014

” Thanks for the summary.

Another little detail in this story: having come from the TV side of the industry, Gail Berman might have been more familiar with and drawn to JJ Abrams from his TV work.” — Cygnus-X1

You are welcome and that’s is precisely what I had hoped to convey when I said she was “drawing on her television strengths”. But it doesn’t hurt to remind people that JJ at that time more likely got the Paramount gig because of his “TV strengths” than because of his budding film ones.

FWIW, if any want to get a sense of the studio and its machinations currently in charge of Trek, I refer you to this:

http://www.laweekly.com/2007-01-18/news/brad-grey-s-performance-less-than-golden/

and I also note that Nikke Finke who did that report is consider a Brad Grey/Paramount mouthpiece in the entertainment news industry because when Grey decides to “leak” a memo, it goes to Nikke, who apparently Grey trusts to allow it the spin he wants in reporting.

72. Disinvited - August 12, 2014

#66. Cygnus-X1 – August 12, 2014

Forgot to add the mandatory coda about the Brad Grey & Gail Berman reported antics: And some people think STAR TREK fans need to “Get a Life!”

73. Red Dead Ryan - August 12, 2014

J.J Abrams did save “Star Trek”. Prior to 2009, it was on life support.

Once again, the haters here have proven to be highly entitled, whiny, and incredibly delusional and ungrateful.

There was no way the proposed movie of the early 2000′s was going to be approved. Paramount had the good sense not to produce another fan-centric film that would otherwise be simply another bomb at the box office.

#70.

Maybe the admin is simply tired of your continous flaming and trolling? And some of us are tired of the crap you’re subjecting us to.

74. Marja - August 12, 2014

Cygnus, Alas, the character moments in both movies are so brief as to bear much “filling in” and so on. I will list my favorite scenes, but the first that spring to mind are

– Pike dressing down Kirk and Spock in his SFHQ office, Spock “giving some attitude,” Kirk acting indefensibly defensive;

– Uhura protesting when Sulu orders they ditch the shuttle and return to Enterprise, and her suiting up and being ready to go despite her feelings;

– Spock addressing Uhura’s concern for his life and her life after his death, with Spock’s very Vulcan reply to her;

– Marcus’s patronizing Kirk at the SFHQ meeting, Kirk springing into action, then Kirk’s and Spock’s reaction to Pike’s [needless!] death;

– Scotty’s defense of the Starfleet mission;

– Scotty’s actions o/b Vengeance;

– Kirk seeing what Marcus is up to and challenging him by saying he’s taking Khan back to Federation jurisdiction for justice; then Marcus telling Kirk it’s all over and Kirk’s stricken face as he apologizes to the crew;

– The entire sequence of Kirk saving Enterprise at his own expense; Scotty’s reaction; Spock’s and Kirk’s conversation about the potential wasted between them; McCoy’s all-too-brief scene of mourning his friend, followed by quick action [albeit it crazy "magic" and not logically written]

And I could give you my favorites from ST09 but I’ve taken a great deal of space here.
——————————————————————————————–
69 Trackie, fans boo-hoo about JJ Trek having too much action! lol My guess, the action-less TNG and subsequent spin-offs desensitized fans to the point where they forgot that TOS was an action/adventure series! That, or the folks crying are really TNG fans anyway and never got TOS to begin with.

Well, my fave eps from TOS [and I love TOS and like the BR Trek films] do not involve a lot of punch-’em up shoot ‘em up action. [And Kirk, and the Enterprise, usually win, by the way.] They’re taking action to defeat things like the Doomsday Machine [amid challenges to Kirk's leadership by Decker, and Spock's loyalty to Starfleet directives, trumped by his loyalty to Kirk], or Daystrom’s M-5, or Sarek’s heart attack amidst sensitive negotiations and attacks from an unknown powerful craft. I could go on. So my faves involve a moderate amount of action, but more quick thinking, good science, loyalty and bravery.
————————————————————————————————

75. star trackie - August 12, 2014

“So my faves involve a moderate amount of action, but more quick thinking, good science, loyalty and bravery.”

That’s cool Marja, but at least you don’t pretend that the action wasn’t present in TOS. There was a lot of it, you just prefer it in smaller doses and how it is weaved into the story is, indeed, very important. It’s those that proclaim there is too much action in the new Trek movies that I just don’t get, as the TV series was full of it.

Your list of highlights, by the way, was excellent. I would add to that McCoy’s honest assessment that Spock would let Kirk die.
Kirk’s heartfelt apology as the Vengeance turns it’s guns on the Enterprise.
Kirk’s pain at losing his father figure, Pike.
Everything Scotty does aboard the Vengeance
…and little things…assembly of the phasers…TOS sick-bay sound FX, cool weird atmosphere sounds from TOS mixed into the Klingon homeworld, fun reference to Dr. Boyce, Iconic Amok time fight music cleverly laid into the end-fight between Spock and Khan. So much to like about trek Into Darkness. Too bad so many can’t get past parallels in a different timeline. Their loss.

76. Disinvited - August 12, 2014

#73. Red Dead Ryan – August 12, 2014

According to Nikke Finke, Don DeLine was “one of Hollywood’s most popular veteran executives” and as such was responsible for PRETTY WOMAN, WHAT ABOUT BOB?, FATHER OF THE BRIDE, WHAT’S LOVE GOT TO DO WITH IT, RUSHMORE, ED WOOD, ARMAGEDDON and RANSOM.

As producer he was noted for BODY OF LIES, THE ITALIAN JOB (remake), I LOVE YOU MAN, etc.

What shred of reasoning are you using to arrive at the conclusion that had Paramount remained intact with Sherry (bottom line) Lansing at its head:

http://www.sherrylansingfoundation.org/page.php?whPage=lansing.php

that Paramount’s DeLine had absolutely no shot with ST 11 in any way shape or form?

I know fans like to over inflate Trek’s importance but NEITHER the failure of NEMESIS nor the non-renewal of ENTERPRISE had anything to do with why Viacom split. It just didn’t.

77. Keachick (Rose) - August 12, 2014

One of my favourites was in the bar when Pike tells Kirk that “they have her back to me”, ie the Enterprise and then goes on to tell Kirk that he will now be Pike’s first officer. When Kirk asks how, Pike says that sometimes he can make a very good case. Pike also says that it will be OK, “son”. Kirk is visibly so grateful, lost for words and (almost) tearful.

Compare how Pike calls Kirk “son” in a kind, fatherly way with the way Marcus calls him “son” later on…ewww…

Another scene which has a little bit of “black” humour about it is where Kirk keeps punching Khan and having absolutely no effect on him but almost knocking himself out. Finally, all Khan says is “Captain.” I get the giggles when I see that. It is Cumberbatch’s delivery of “Captain” that finally cinches it for me…LOL

As well as the other great scenes listed in above posts.

78. Keachick (Rose) - August 12, 2014

meant to read: “they GAVE her back to me”

79. Cygnus-X1 - August 12, 2014

69. star trackie – August 12, 2014

Fast forward 30 years and fans boo-hoo about JJ Trek having too much action! lol My guess, the action-less TNG and subsequent spin-offs desensitized fans to the point where they forgot that TOS was an action/adventure series!

Let’s not forget that TMP did well enough to spawn TWOK, though people tended to complain about the slow, overly plodding pacing combined with a story that did not lend itself to much action.

But, you’re right that TMP was one extreme. And the BR movies are at the other extreme—action at the expense of substance. I’m willing to bet money that most Trek fans who are satisfied with ST09 would not be any less satisfied with it if the monster-chase scene on Delta Vega had been omitted and instead that screen time used for substance, like giving depth to some of the characters and/or explaining/exploring some of the mind-blowing implications of the whole time-travel event—such as does Nero know where he is? How does this affect Nero’s motive and rationale? The motive of the Nero character was flawed from its inception, but at least the interesting time-travel device could have paid more dividends.

Regarding TOS, it was never a run-around, constant action series. It had action, but at its best the action was in service of the theme or concept at the center of the episode. TOS was about social, political and scientific/technological issues—it was fundamentally a concept-driven show. Not a show whose purpose was to keep you on the edge of your seat for 45 minutes with constant action scenes. The BR movies are the opposite. Their purpose is to keep you on the edge of your seat for 2 hours with constant running around, pew pew, space battles, fist-fights, etc… And they do that well, but it comes at the expense of themes and concepts, meaning and substance.

Regarding the TNG movies, that’s where the action actually started to get ramped up. First Contact had a good amount of action as did Nemesis, not that I’m holding up either of those movies as an exemplar of anything. But, just to say that they were not particularly light on action for the time. Insurrection was not quite as action-oriented, but even that movie had the cliche, mano-a-mano duel between the protagonist and the villain at the end topped off with a big explosion.

I haven’t heard or seen many people say that the reason they didn’t like Nemesis was because it didn’t have enough action. And First Contact is widely regarded as the best of the TNG movies.

80. Cygnus-X1 - August 12, 2014

73. Red Dead Ryan – August 12, 2014

J.J Abrams did save “Star Trek”. Prior to 2009, it was on life support.

No, it wasn’t. And, no, he didn’t. You’re just ignoring the information that has been presented about that issue.

Once again, the haters here have proven to be highly entitled, whiny, and incredibly delusional and ungrateful… #70. Maybe the admin is simply tired of your continous flaming and trolling? And some of us are tired of the crap you’re subjecting us to.

I don’t see any of the “haters” making ad hominem remarks about you or indicting your character as you are doing to them. And no one is “subjecting” you to anything. If you don’t like someone’s opinion, then don’t read their posts. As it happens, Finnigan expresses an opinion that echos what has been expressed by numerous professional critics, bloggers, fans and some Trek veterans. And you’re being pretty disrespectful to him. I haven’t seen anyone refer to your opinions as “crap.”

If you feel so passionately about BR Trek, then why don’t you talk about how great those movies are instead of trying to stifle dissenting opinion?

81. Cygnus-X1 - August 12, 2014

71. Disinvited – August 12, 2014

Sounds like there was no love lost for Gail Berman.

And Brad Grey doesn’t seem terribly well-liked, either.

My general sense of all this is that Hollywood has just become too corporate, plain and simple. Massive, publicly traded conglomerates owning the movie studios does not seem to be good for the overall quality of movies. Shareholders of Viacom and other studio-owning conglomerates care about one thing and one thing only: $$$. And I don’t see how you can get a healthy marriage between art and commerce under those conditions.

82. Keachick (Rose) - August 12, 2014

#79 – “such as does Nero know where he is? How does this affect Nero’s motive and rationale? The motive of the Nero character was flawed from its inception, but at least the interesting time-travel device could have paid more dividends.”

Nero knew exactly where he was. He realized this from the beginning when Captain Robau was asked about the whereabouts of Spock and Captain Robau said that he had never heard of Spock. Then Robau was asked the date and he said 2233. That was when the “penny dropped” for Nero. Most Romulans in Nero’s 24th century time would have been aware of the concept/ reality of time-travel and the possibilities of there being alternate/parallel universes. What he suspected then would have been confirmed later anyway by the time it came for prime Spock to turn up with the all-important red matter.

Nero was quite clear about his motives when he spoke to his captive, Captain Pike as he tortured Pike for the codes. Nero knew that he was in another universe which was the same as the one he came from, albeit with minor differences. He told Pike that he wanted to make this Romulus free of the Federation and said he would destroy many of the Federation worlds, starting with earth. He had destroyed Vulcan in retaliation for prime Spock’s delay in saving his own Romulus.

Of course, Nero was crazy and delusional with a dangerous weapon at his disposal. Then again, so was Hitler crazy and delusional and look what he and his cronies managed to do in a few short years with the technology they had at their disposal in those years.

83. bboborci - August 12, 2014

70 F

fair enough

84. Disinvited - August 12, 2014

# 83. bboborci – August 12, 2014

” 70 F

fair enough” — bboborc

You must not be in SoCal. To paraphrase the radio reporting on the Hindenburg Disaster: “OH, the humidity!”

P.S. Don’t fret. I knew what you really meant. ;-)

85. Jonboc - August 12, 2014

#70. “But, there is justified criticism of the writing for STID with multiple plot holes and devices that are obvious and disappointing.”

But seriously…what episode of Star Trek doesn’t have some plot holes and obvious plot devices?? Why is it ok in the original series but it’s a cardinal sin in a new 2 hour movie? I’m really having a hard time understanding fans who are trashing or so disappointed in Bad Robot’s Treks…when those very same problems are all over the place in the original series and the original series movies! I just don’t get it. Illogical.

86. Finnigan - August 12, 2014

@83 If you are the real Mr. Ocri,

Thanks for the response and for reading.

87. Finnigan - August 12, 2014

@73 Red Dead Ryan as @80 Cygnus-X-1 aptly points out, it is YOU who is the troll and who is attacking others. You are the one issuing insults. You are rude, disrespectful, and obviously immature. It’s a pity you can’t seem to accept that others might not agree with you and have differing opinions. Looks like Bob Orci accepts this, how come you can’t?

Go back and read my postings and tell me where I did any of what you accuse me of and then compare it to your very own postings. In the meantime, I await your forthcoming apology.

Mr. Admin, where are you? I’d like to lodge a formal complaint about Red Dead Ryan.

88. Disinvited - August 12, 2014

#85. Jonboc – August 12, 2014

But seriously, why all this calling for lowering the bar to the depths of mediocrity reached in its birth pangs rather than the heights reached with its WGA winning first season script?

This logic that since they did SPOCK’S BRAIN it should be perfectly acceptable that every movie script dips that low is absurd. No it shouldn’t. Things on this planet evolve, and we who are evolved like to see things get better and not worse. When we have a platform that’s been around for 50 years the writing that is considered “acceptable” should rival or exceed the best its seen and NOT aim in the direction of the worst. Everyone is not a winner because someone or something else came in last.

89. Finnigan - August 12, 2014

@85 Jonboc

A valid point, but there were multiple episodes as a TV show with limited budget and schedule. Sure there were some disappointing episodes but the good and great ones eclipse the bad.

A feature film is another thing with a large budget and ample schedule. There are several Trek films that I would consider poor, but none as poor as STID.

Many of us had high expectations for STID and it didn’t deliver.

Again, my opinion.

90. Finnigan - August 12, 2014

@88 Disinvited

Spot on!

91. Jonboc - August 12, 2014

#88. “A valid point, but there were multiple episodes as a TV show with limited budget and schedule. Sure there were some disappointing episodes but the good and great ones eclipse the bad.”

Yes, I would agree with that…however, part of the illogic I often witness on these very boards is the condemnation of Bad Robot Trek for not encompassing, in 2 to 4 hours, the high points some fans have cherry picked out of 79 hours of television. And it goes much farther than Spock’s Brain vs. Enemy Within. The good to bad ratio…plot holes, obvious plot devices, etc. exist episode to episode. Spock’s Brain contains some good elements just as Enemy Within contains some real head scratchers! Pure, golden, un-blemished Star Trek is not very easy to find, in the original series or the new movies…and to expect such, is a bit unrealistic, IMO.

92. Bill Peters - August 12, 2014

Should Point out that the new Movies are set in the TOS Timeframe , I find a lot of people who dislike the New Flims, have a love for TNG and Post TNG shows, which I love as well, but when dealing with these Flims you have to see them thought the light of TOS, as Janeway says in Flashback, ” They were a little less Quick to Invoke the Prime Directive and a Little Quicker to draw there Phasers, and the HOLE lot of them would be kicked out of Starfleet today” …this is speaking for the Crew from Star Trek VI not even the TV Series, the New Movies are set in the TOS timeFrame and everything Janeway said about the Prime Universe seems to apply here..

Also should point out Kirk and Crew in Spocks Brain seems to Violate the Prime Directive but there is never any Consequences for such…yet it is a big deal in Star Trek Into Darkness when Kirk Essentially Interferes with a Culture to save spocks life, in both Situations Kirk Violated the Prime Directive to save Spock.

93. boborci - August 12, 2014

86.it is me. no one, ever, has impersonated a screenwriter;)

thank u for your thoughts:)

94. Cygnus-X1 - August 13, 2014

91. Jonboc – August 12, 2014

however, part of the illogic I often witness on these very boards is the condemnation of Bad Robot Trek for not encompassing, in 2 to 4 hours, the high points some fans have cherry picked out of 79 hours of television. And it goes much farther than Spock’s Brain vs. Enemy Within. The good to bad ratio…plot holes, obvious plot devices, etc. exist episode to episode.

I don’t see anyone making that argument.

The problem with BR Trek is not that it has certain problems in terms of plot, characters, science, etc… of the variety that can also be found in, for example, the TOS movies. It’s that BR Trek has all of those problems—every variety of them, and to a more egregious degree—and is also woefully lacking in the substance that made the TOS movies good.

The problems with BR Trek can be put into two general categories:

(1) The fundamental art form has been changed from thoughtful sci-fi to meaningless action “blockbuster;” and,

(2) The movies, even as meaningless action movies, are badly written in terms of plot, characters, internal logical consistency, scientific premises and technological conceits.

95. Jonboc - August 13, 2014

94, I guess the bottom line is, it’s all very subjective. Clearly, what you percieve to be huge problems, I have no problem with. I found the action exciting, not heavy handed, the plts engaging and the drama, heartfelt and effective. the mix of humor into conversations was also spot-on.

I tend to agree with Bill Peters, that much of the discontent seems to stem from a TNG mindset. Maybe some just mad because that universes is over now, who knows. But TOS was a totally different animal and should never have the sensibilities of TNG buit into it. Never ever. JJ’s movies were based on TOS and have captured that very spirit of fun and adventure. They don’t resemble TNG in the least, nor should they.

96. Finnigan - August 13, 2014

@93 boborci

Доверя́й, но проверя́й.

Trust, but verify.

97. Red Dead Ryan - August 13, 2014

#87.

“As for the political correctness being displayed by being offended at the use of the word “p**”, give us a break! Really, people are being given warnings by the Admin for something so trivial and ridiculous? Come on lighten up and stop trying to shelter everyone from having their feelings hurt. The Final Frontier is not for the faint of heart. Put up you shields and face the fire instead of avoiding the heat.”

So…you’re accusing me of being rude…..yet this post earlier upthread defends the use of “poo” by others to describe the nuTrek movies, is that right? Don’t you see the irony (hypocrisy) here?

You accuse the admin of being overly sensitive, yet you are trying to get me banned for simply pointing out that some of you here have been using crude language to slam and put down nuTrek.

I owe you no apology.

98. Red Dead Ryan - August 13, 2014

And, btw, if you happen to be laying on the hate for nuTrek….well, that does make you a hater.

Sorry if the truth hurts!

99. Disinvited - August 13, 2014

# 93. boborci – August 12, 2014

” 86.it is me. no one, ever, has impersonated a screenwriter;)”

Oh, I beg to differ. Given what I recall of SCTV I would most definitely say that John Candy impersonated screenwriters there and then used that in creating his onscreen performance in his romcom, DELIRIOUS.

And it went through so many iterations that I’m not sure, but in ARGO wasn’t someone at sometime impersonating a screenwriter?

And then, of course, there’s all those Rod Serling impersonations, one which recently one a daytime Emmy for a KTLA promo spot.

100. Jemini - August 13, 2014

Simon, private emails aren’t to be shared with the public though. Not so very pro-internet netiquette of you LOL Orci wrote that to you.

101. Disinvited - August 13, 2014

# 93. boborci – August 12, 2014

err…recently WON a daytime Emmy……

102. Ahmed - August 13, 2014

@97. Red Dead Ryan

“yet you are trying to get me banned for simply pointing out that some of you here have been using crude language to slam and put down nuTrek.”

You mean something like this:

==================
73. Red Dead Ryan:

“Once again, the haters here have proven to be highly entitled, whiny, and incredibly delusional and ungrateful.”

==================

Instead of attacking others for disliking NuTrek, perhaps you should focus on expressing your own appreciation for NuTrek. But all you did & still do is come here & attack others. You don’t even comment on the topic of the article most of the time.

I don’t agree on banning you, you have the right to express your views, but you needs to learn to let others express theirs as well.

103. Ahmed - August 13, 2014

@ 88. Disinvited – August 12, 2014

“This logic that since they did SPOCK’S BRAIN it should be perfectly acceptable that every movie script dips that low is absurd. No it shouldn’t. Things on this planet evolve, and we who are evolved like to see things get better and not worse.”

Well said. All the various series & movies had issues & problems, yet that doesn’t means that we repeat the same mistakes in the new movies. The fans should ask for better movies & not justify the problems by pointing to previous issues with a TV series that came out 50 years ago or points to movies that were made with a fraction of the current movie budget.

In the spirit of Captain Pike, we should tell the writes that
“we dare you to do better!”

104. Finnigan - August 13, 2014

@97

You are mistaken, I am not defending the use of the word to describe NuTrek, I am defending the use of that word in general and others that are, seriously, rather tame. I also object to censorship of any kind and being Politically Correct.

I am accusing you of being rude as demonstrated by your postings. You have insulted me and other, directly. The irony and hypocrisy is all on you as you are the one behaving badly here.

Get you banned? No, never my intention. I just want the Admin to respond to your direct attacks and insults with the same zeal as was demonstrated by the “poo” warning.

I have not used crude or insulting language to describe NuTrek. I have been specific but not insulting.

Hate is a very strong word, IMHO. I have not hate for NuTrek or even you. I don’t hate. I have opinions and I have every right to have them. Again, one only needs to go back and read your previous postings here in this very thread to see that you have been insulting, rude, and intolerant.

As has been suggested by others, why don’t you focus your energies on defending NuTrek instead of calling people names and being insulting. Why can’t you accept that there are multiple opinions and that they do not necessarily parallel yours.

You owe everyone here an apology.

105. star trackie - August 13, 2014

103 Ahmed, “All the various series & movies had issues & problems, yet that doesn’t means that we repeat the same mistakes in the new movies.”

Curious,what would you say is an example of a mistake made in TOs/movies that the new movies repeated and made as well?

106. Ahmed - August 13, 2014

@105. star trackie

Why the last two Nu-Trek in a row were about villains seeing revenge? You guys respond by saying that all the previous movies were about that as well, so what?

Why hire a white British guy to play Khan? Your response, they hired a Mexican to play Khan in TOS/WOK, no big deal!

Lack of Starfleet ships around Earth during the final battle ? Come on, this happened before in all the previous movies.

Science mistakes? So, all the series & movies made that same mistake!

And on & on goes the list. Try for once asking for something better, rather than defending it blindly. Star Trek is not Star Wars, it is not about space action & endless chase scene on flying garbage trucks!

With the kind of budget they have now, they can & should make better & bigger Trek movies.

107. Cygnus-X1 - August 13, 2014

95. Jonboc – August 13, 2014

Obviously and can’t comment much on how the BR movies make you feel.

I tend to agree with Bill Peters, that much of the discontent seems to stem from a TNG mindset. Maybe some just mad because that universes is over now, who knows. But TOS was a totally different animal and should never have the sensibilities of TNG buit into it. Never ever. JJ’s movies were based on TOS and have captured that very spirit of fun and adventure. They don’t resemble TNG in the least, nor should they.

TNG doesn’t have to enter into it.

TOS was a concept-driven show. The good episodes had thoughtful, overarching themes that drove them. Even some of the more ridiculous episodes, like The Way to Eden (i.e. the one with the space hippies), had thoughtful relevant themes. The themes (political, social, scientific/technological) were what the TOS episodes were *about*.

You tell me: what was the theme of ST09 and STID? What were those movies *about*? What was the moral lesson that you took away from each those movies?

108. Cygnus-X1 - August 13, 2014

95. Jonboc – August 13, 2014

P.S. At the end of STID, Kirk gives a speech warning of not letting your desire for vengeance turn you evil like those who have wronged you. This speech was set up and presented as though it was supposed to summarize the theme of the movie. Did you walk away from STID feeling that it was about not letting your desire for vengeance turn you evil?

109. Ahmed - August 13, 2014

@107. Cygnus-X1

“What was the moral lesson that you took away from each those movies?”

That you can get a better shot at moving to the top of the ladder if you are arrogant & have a well connected father figure who believe in you!

110. Marja - August 13, 2014

79 Cygnus Regarding TOS, it was never a run-around, constant action series. It had action, but at its best the action was in service of the theme or concept at the center of the episode. TOS was about social, political and scientific/technological issues—it was fundamentally a concept-driven show. Not a show whose purpose was to keep you on the edge of your seat for 45 minutes with constant action scenes. The BR movies are the opposite. Their purpose is to keep you on the edge of your seat for 2 hours with constant running around, pew pew, space battles, fist-fights, etc

Andd this is where you and I agree, along with your many previous points about the writing. Character/interplay/conflict should be woven throughout with more time and opportunity to play out than in 2- to 3-minute scenes.

Your #81——-My general sense of all this is that Hollywood has just become too corporate, plain and simple. Massive, publicly traded conglomerates owning the movie studios does not seem to be good for the overall quality of movies. Shareholders of Viacom and other studio-owning conglomerates care about one thing and one thing only: $$$. And I don’t see how you can get a healthy marriage between art and commerce under those conditions

Thus I would say, abandon hope, all ye who hope for really great character- and concept-driven Trek movies that won’t return a huge profit on the initial investment. As I quoted Woody Allen, “It’s show BUSINESS, not show friend.” And it always has been, even when TOS was on television.

If this cast comes to TV, in a well-produced and -written series, I think then some of our dreams can be realized. But as long as Trek is a movie franchise, Orci and company must bow to Paramount’s paramout interest, profits.

The only spark I see in the darkness is what I read the other day — that Chinese audiences are tiring of Action Spectacles. So I’m crossing my fingers, since Hollywood is squarely aiming product at that audience.
————————————————————————————————-

Oh gosh people — especially Finnigan and RedDeadRyan … “accuse” … “rude” … “insult” “hypocrisy” … “hater” … “apology” …

I’m seeing the Spectre of MJ rising. … DO. NOT. WANT.

Please ease offguys, just move on, or ignore each other. I’ve had to do that with certain posters myself. In the words of NuPike, “I dare you to do better.” [not “do one better,” as in escalate the argument. But “do better.”

111. Cygnus-X1 - August 13, 2014

110. Marja – August 13, 2014

Thus I would say, abandon hope, all ye who hope for really great character- and concept-driven Trek movies that won’t return a huge profit on the initial investment.

Well, my biggest hope lies in the fact that Paramount found it worthwhile to make the TOS movies in the 1980s and early 1990s. It was still a conglomerate back then (Gulf & Western), but, for whatever reason—maybe due to the pull and cache of the veteran TOS stars, Shatner & Nimoy; maybe it was due to the times being less focused on action “blockbusters”—Paramount made the TOS movies along side blockbusters like Top Gun and more quirky movies like Clue (which has held up quite well over time, I must say).

I’m interested to know more about the studio history in aid of sussing out the awful current state of the Hollywood studio system.

I agree that TV is where it’s at these days. As movies have gotten increasingly shallow, superficial and overly action-oriented, TV has gone in the exact opposite direction. Though, hiring BR to make a TV series would not be an improvement as far as I’m concerned.

112. Cygnus-X1 - August 13, 2014

P.S. Or, maybe the corporate culture at both Paramount and G&W was different in an important way than it is today with Paramount and Viacom. All of these are possibilities. Or, maybe it was all three.

113. Finnigan - August 13, 2014

@110 Ay, your point is taken. I am moving on and will waste no more time on a worthless volley. Besides, the discussion today has been great and good points being made. I’d rather be involved in the quality discussions anyways.

114. Keachick (Rose) - August 13, 2014

I left the cinema after seeing STID for the first time (also seeing a movie in 3D for the first time as well) with two main thoughts -

1 – I looked to my son and he looked at me and he said, “I’ll book the tickets to see this movie at IMAX” (a first time experience for both of us – and on his birthday, 15 May)

2 – There is much to think about here – need to see it again to clarify a point or two

What I got/get from the film is that -
* things are not always so obvious and clear; that doing *right* as in what is ordered may actually be *wrong* and doing *right*(ie preventing a volcano from destroying much of a world and its inhabitants and being seen briefly because of the need to save another life) might be deemed *wrong* by the TPTB.

* Lying undermines trust. Telling the truth requires courage and the ability to stand by one’s convictions and consequent actions. Kirk needed to learn that, which he did.

* A leader, captain, the guy in charge, can and does set the tone for ethical/moral behaviour and it does take courage to stand up to such people when it is discerned that they seem to have lost their way – Spock challenging Marcus’s orders and so on…

* Marcus played “with fire” when he brought someone who had been very dangerous in his own time out of cryostasis and then proceeded to use this same person for his own secretive purposes and threaten this same man – did Marcus not consider the possibility that this Khan would find a way to escape Marcus’s clutches and seek revenge on Marcus and his organization?
Marcus represented how power can corrupt and blind…here – the ends did not justify the means.

This just comes from watching and examining the STID movie as to the events and the characters’ motivations that brought about such events and the various consequences. I have not needed other references/sources to determine this.

(As to why there were no other ships in the final battle sequence seems obvious to me. Admiral Marcus was the Head of Starfleet and he told the other commanders and ships to stand down.)

115. Ahmed - August 13, 2014

To RDR,

Please check what Keachick wrote at #114.

I disagree with Keachick on almost everything, but at least she is expressing the things that she liked about the movie in meaningful way.

Instead of trying to silence & attack others who have different views, tell the world why you enjoyed the movie or how it affected you.

116. Kirk's Girdle - August 13, 2014

#106 Ahmed:

Here’s my take on the white Khan. I believe it’s a confluence of three issues that allowed this to happen.

1. To paraphrase Mugato: Cumberbatch is SO hot right now!
2. J.J. loves a mystery or twist.
3. Hollywood prides itself on being color-blind (and sometimes gender blind; I’m looking at you Starbuck!). so, basically, anybody can play anybody nowadays.

So it is my ragged supposition that J.J. attempted to kill two birds with one stone by hiring a rising international star who, after the Benecio Del toro casting drama, would be able to throw the public off Khan’s scent until the “twist” was officially confirmed by NeoKhan (maybe he’s white and Republican) himself.

I personally was hoping for Nestor Carbonell (a known Bad Robot associate), who absolutely tears it up as Sheriff Romero on Bates Motel.

117. star trackie - August 14, 2014

#106 “Why the last two Nu-Trek in a row were about villains seeing revenge? You guys respond by saying that all the previous movies were about that as well, so what?

Why hire a white British guy to play Khan? Your response, they hired a Mexican to play Khan in TOS/WOK, no big deal!

Lack of Starfleet ships around Earth during the final battle ? Come on, this happened before in all the previous movies.

Science mistakes? So, all the series & movies made that same mistake!

And on & on goes the list. Try for once asking for something better, rather than defending it blindly. Star Trek is not Star Wars, it is not about space action & endless chase scene on flying garbage trucks!

With the kind of budget they have now, they can & should make better & bigger Trek movies.”

What I gather from all this is you must really hate TOS! If these little “problems” were enough to make you hate Trek Into Darkness, then how on Earth could you possibly like the original series? Usually fans overlook this stuff because the good outweighs the bad. Trek Into Darkness is no different. It’s not perfect, but it doesn’t have to be. Wanting to see improvements is not the same as hating it because those perceived improvements were not made to your satisfaction.

There is something deeper at play here, only you can enlighten us as to what it is.

118. Dee - lvs moonsurface - August 14, 2014

#93.boborci

Mr. Orci? Carol Marcus started traveling as a crew member of the Enterprise in ‘Into Darkness’. Is she still on the ship in Trek 3?

And, after these years commenting here, I think maybe you remember what I always hope to see on Kirk, small moments of futility :) … But I think Chris does not need to play Kirk with all that muscle mass, because in IMAX he looks huge, and some ppl think he’s fat… btw, everything looks huge in IMAX.

My suggestion, something like this(image below) would be enough, I’m talking about the shape of Kirk:

http://bit.ly/1rbWTFr

119. Keachick (Rose) - August 14, 2014

Chris Pine has naturally filled out a little. This tends to happen as a person gets older, but from the little I have seen, it is all nicely toned muscle. Let Chris be Chris, one Captain Fine, a very fine younger alt. universe James T Kirk.

“Small moments of futility”?
Well, I still want to see this Jim Kirk hanging from vines, wearing only the tiniest scrap of covering, above rapids on this fine world called Menosia…Kirk falls exhausted into a nuli… (if there must be a Kirk hanging on scene and why not?).

I want to see Kirk in a romance, full on, beautiful, erotic with Carol Marcus or other. Why not? After all, anything can happen in space…and not just war, or threat of, or horror and ugliness, but other as well

Some believe that earth is the universe’s penitentiary for those souls who cannot cope or behave well on other worlds and dimensions, so they are sent to earth to live and hopefully learn how to love…

120. Marja - August 14, 2014

Rose, ruh-roh, you mentioned that verboten word “romance” …. we’re in for it now. Don’t you know women and men on starships are supposed to be consummate professionals and never fall in love? Especially the women

I keed, I keed

121. Ahmed - August 14, 2014

@117. star trackie

“There is something deeper at play here, only you can enlighten us as to what it is.”

Spoken like a true fanatic!

There is NOTHING wrong with our precious idol; the problem must be with the ones who don’t appreciate its glory!

Hallelujah!

122. Disinvited - August 14, 2014

# 118. Dee – lvs moonsurface – August 14, 2014

” Mr. Orci? Carol Marcus started traveling as a crew member of the Enterprise in ‘Into Darkness’. Is she still on the ship in Trek 3? ”

At the risk of spoiling you because you apparently missed it: The end of STID advanced a year after Kirk’s resurrection and she was still there.

If Bob’s movie picks up from there and it’s his intention that she be an enterpise crew member, I’d like to see a little snippet were Kirk’s being inquisitive about that demonstrates Spock’s evolved somewhat — especially in regards to fudging…logically — and serves as a way of welcoming of her aboard.

Kirk: Carol’s a member of the crew?

Spock: It was unfortunate that Khan’s attacks destroyed all records of her original transfer. Fortunately, she was able to get a senior officer who had seen them to vouch for her.

Kirk:[puzzled] Vouch for he….?

[Carol approaches, after completing some task at the science station, interrupting before Kirk can finish his question]

Carol:[addressing Spock] Here, are the long distance sensor surveys of our destination as requested, sir. …. Oh, by the way, I don’t think I ever got a chance to thank you…

Spock: [interrupting Carol, clearly pleased in the manner that Vulcan's show it] Once again, you have exceeded my expectations by completion of an assigned task ahead of schedule. Your continued excellence in the performance of your duties is all the thanks that I require.

[Carol done. Turns to exit]

[Kirk gives Spock a look that possibly only humans can manage, expressing all sorts of wonderment and pleasure at this little exchange]

[Spock acts merely as if Kirk's expression was meant to remind Spock that he forgot something.]

Spock: Oh and Lt. {Or whatever Carol’s rank is. Doctor?}

[Carol turns.]

Spock: You are welcome.

123. Dee - lvs moonsurface - August 14, 2014

#122.

“Spoiling me”? Do not underestimate me that you would not like of my reaction!

I’m sure Mr. Orci is smarter than you, I will not have to draw my question to him!

HAH!!!

124. Dee - lvs moonsurface - August 14, 2014

#119. Keachick

Keachick, as far as I know Chris Pine just adds weight to play Captain Kirk, he has said he does not feel good too heavy. Such that shortly after the shooting, he made a diet to get the weight he feels comfortable. Btw, he’s thin now despite his age.

If Kirk in Trek 3 has the same shape as in STID obviously Chris will have to do the same preparation again to gain muscle mass. I liked Kirk in STID, but if Chris does not feel comfortable and has a lot of people commenting that he was too big, that his neck was huge and blah, blah, blah … I thought it interesting to comment with Mr. Orci.

But, at least so far my commentary has drawn attention from other people, less from boborci! :D

125. Disinvited - August 14, 2014

#123. Dee – lvs moonsurface – August 14, 2014

Your response is puzzling such that I’m uncertain you understood my usage of “spoiling”.

I was using it in the sense of spoiling the ending of a story that you somehow missed. Some get very upset at knowing the ending before a story unfolds onscreen to the point that they don’t even want to know if somehow they sneezed and missed it the first time around and would rather opt for the opportunity to see it again watching the ending unfold on screen.

126. Dee - lvs moonsurface - August 14, 2014

#125.

#125. Disinvited

Are you kidding me?

I totally understand what you mean, does it seem like you have no idea about me. So, for your information I can watch as many times as I want my bluray of the movie, after watching the movie several times in the cinema. So obviously no one could “spoiler” the movie for me, even if trying to.
And, since my question was addressed to Mr. Orci, it was not necessary that you had redrawn the question, even if I was a complete clueless about STID. This seemed very arrogant on your part.

127. Disinvited - August 14, 2014

# 126. Dee – lvs moonsurface – August 14, 2014

” Are you kidding me? ” — Dee – lvs moonsurface

I had no intentions of redrawing questions or being arrogant.

Your responses just confused me. Feedback, is how parties gain insight into the other and it helps to determine if, indeed, communication is going on.

Thanks to yours, I now know that while expressing yourself in a public forum, you sought an exclusive audience with Mr. Orci, and “Let me help.” is not the advance thought that it was once as expressed in CITY ON THE EDGE OF FOR EVER but the provenance of lesser minds to that of one, Roberto Orci.

128. Keachick (Rose) - August 14, 2014

I think Chris was put on a diet of chicken with the skin on and spinach (or was that a bit of a joke or something?), along with specific muscle building exercise. He was doing a slightly different routine from what he normally does. Yes, I agree that he did look bigger in the face and neck and it did not suit him. He also said that he found it harder to lose the extra weight and was not comfortable with it.
The Pine is fine and so is Captain Fine, just as he is!

129. Dee - lvs moonsurface - August 14, 2014

127. Disinvited

HAH again!

Does not come with this… because Mr. Orci was answering questions here, so I have every right to also put a question to him here, if he will respond to my question or not, is his prerogative. Btw, he has already answered some silly questions that I did to him here before!

But… Let’s leave it at that, if ever I ask a question to you, you reply. You are definitely Disinvited!

Otherwise, accept my puzzling answers!

130. Dee - lvs moonsurface - August 14, 2014

#128. Keachick

Yes, he even said he made ​​a green juice diet for a month. Ay Ay Ay green juice! :D

And all I wanted to know was whether Carol Marcus was still on the Enterprise after they were on the trip of five years, I hope it is … but suddenly, the writers decided to focus on the plot at a time when Carol is not more on the ship… is so impossible that possibility? So, what’s wrong with my question? Hellooo !!!

Look I have a sense of humor! haha

131. Phil - August 14, 2014

@130. It’s very possible – no one is on duty 24/7, so transfer her into the bowels of the armory on the night shift. Problem solved.

132. Disinvited - August 14, 2014

# 129. Dee – lvs moonsurface – August 14, 2014

” Otherwise, accept my puzzling answers!” — Dee – lvs moonsurface

Quite easily accomplished — especially since you laughed at the right beat.

We will do as the cold Disney toon suggests, “Let it go! Let it go!….”

133. Disinvited - August 14, 2014

# 99. Disinvited – August 13, 2014

” 86.it is me. no one, ever, has impersonated a screenwriter;)” — boborci – August 12, 2014


” And then, of course, there’s all those Rod Serling impersonations, one which recently one[won] a daytime Emmy for a KTLA promo spot.” — Disinvited

Errata: KTLA’s Mark Kriski won this year’s awarded LA local Emmy for his TWILIGHT ZONE MARATHON promo

134. Jonboc - August 14, 2014

#107 “What was the moral lesson that you took away from each those movies?”

Trek doesn’t always need moral lessons, as evidenced by the TV series. What did you learn from the Naked Time? Don’t drink? Enemy Within? Don’t ever lose your evil side? or Miri? Don’t grow up? Sure, there were episodes like Ultimate Computer that thoughtfully posed a question to ponder, and others that hammered you over the head like Let That Be Your Last Battlefield and Platos Stepchildren. You can dislike the new movies because they, in your eyes, offer nothing profound. I would argue, it doesn’t have to.

135. Disinvited - August 14, 2014

#131. Phil – August 14, 2014

” It’s very possible – no one is on duty 24/7, so transfer her into the bowels of the armory on the night shift. Problem solved.” — Phil

Ok, I borrowed the STID disc again to see what I’m confused about and it seems I’m the one who sneezed somewhere.

At 2:02:32 seconds into STID, Kirk is rejuvenated back on the Enterprise bridge welcoming Carol to the “family”.and mere seconds later Spock is beaming about the start of the 5 year mission on this voyage.

So is the question being addressed whether she survives the 5 year mission or is being taxied somewhere because I’m still lost?

136. star trackie - August 15, 2014

#121 “Spoken like a true fanatic!

There is NOTHING wrong with our precious idol; the problem must be with the ones who don’t appreciate its glory!

Hallelujah!”

In other words, you have no rational reasoning for hating JJ Trek so much when those very examples of what you dislike are rampant in TOS and the TOS movies, which you are, supposedly, a huge fan of.

137. Captain Slow - August 15, 2014

@ 136 star trackie

My three favorite episodes of TOS are Arena, The Doomsday Machine, and The Trouble With Tribbles. Episodes that are popular with many other fans as well. And what do their stories involve? Kirk fighting a monster, a huge black ship that destroys planets, and a lot of slapstick comedy. Those elements helped make those episodes classics, and yet the new movies are condemned for having them. Something doesn’t seem right about that.

138. Disinvited - August 15, 2014

#136. star trackie – August 15, 2014

“In other words, you have no rational reasoning for hating … ” — star trackie

Is there ever any rational reason to hate?

I think I saw my copy of Plato’s REPUBLIC lying around somewhere. I’m going to try and check this out.

139. star trackie - August 15, 2014

#137 “Those elements helped make those episodes classics, and yet the new movies are condemned for having them. Something doesn’t seem right about that.’

I’m right there with ya Captain Slow. That’s one reason I think the detractors are of a TNG mindset. The new movies aren’t what they’re used to, but they are TOS, through and through!

#138 “Is there ever any rational reason to hate?”

True, just thought there might at least be some consistency in Ahmed’s argument…if you hate across the board for the same reasons, that’s one thing. If you hate something in one instance, but accept the very same thing in another, then there is something else at play.

140. Finnigan - August 15, 2014

Interesting poll results from the Las Vegas ST Convention:

http://www.blastr.com/2013-8-12/ouch-fans-vote-galaxy-quest-better-trek-movie-darkness

141. Dee - lvs moonsurface - August 15, 2014

#131. Phil

I have no doubt, the writers would have a story for this possibility. After all, no matter if we do not want Khan, the writers do what they want. :)

That is why I do not have the movie in my head, and I want to find out something about the film they have in their head.

142. Jonboc - August 15, 2014

140, Interesting, but not very surprising. Those Vegas cons are attended by lifelong TNG fans , who, by being engulfed in Berman Trek for 20 years, have lived and breathed the con-scene for years, making it a ritual of sorts. Add to that, the Wrath of Khan fans who can’t get over inclusion of the iconic Khan ( how dare they!!) and you have fertile ground for negativity. Fill a room with 1,000 TOS fans…fans who grew up with Mego action figures, Gold Key comics and bought film cels from Lincoln Enterprises…and I suspect you’ll have a different outcome altogether.

143. Captain Slow - August 16, 2014

@ 142 Jonboc

“Fill a room with 1,000 TOS fans…”

From what I’ve heard, it was actually way less than that. And that the results were determined by applause, not actual voting. So all that was needed was a small group of J.J. haters who could make a lot of noise. That actually sounds a lot like the people on this board.

144. Spock's Bangs - August 16, 2014

143 “From what I’ve heard, it was actually way less than that. And that the results were determined by applause, not actual voting. So all that was needed was a small group of J.J. haters who could make a lot of noise. That actually sounds a lot like the people on this board.”

BOOM!!

Truth bomb!!

145. Red Dead Ryan - August 16, 2014

There was witness testimony from a poster on the TrekMovie thread dealing with that convention who actually saw how the poll was conducted. He said it was a “gong show”.

146. Finnigan - August 18, 2014

@142 I’m a TOS fan from way back. I went to the original NYC conventions and have many TOS friends who ALL agree that the NuTrek is NOT the favored representation of Trek. I enjoyed TNG very much, but I really don’t think the fact that there are lots of TNG fans does anything to excuse the fact that NuTrek is disliked by many. As I have stated previously, if you try to make Trek mainstream then it really isn’t Trek. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

Stop with the “hater” talk. Hate is very strong word and I know that I don’t hate. I don’t have hatred for Abrams, Orci, or anyone else. I may not agree with how they did things regarding Star Trek, but that doesn’t make me or anyone else a “hater”

I can disagree, dislike, and even oppose something without hate. Calling people haters is like calling them racists. It is the tactic of someone who has run out of good arguments to make their point(s). The term “hater” is stupid and should be avoided, IMO. Stop calling people haters because they happen to disagree with you. Using it makes you an intolerant person.

147. Marja - August 18, 2014

140 Finnigan, That poll was from the 2013 Las Vegas Con.

148. Finnigan - August 19, 2014

@147 Marja, I didn’t specify which year the poll was taken.

149. Disinvited - August 19, 2014

# 148. Finnigan – August 19, 2014

” @147 Marja, I didn’t specify which year the poll was taken.” — Finnigan

Maybe you didn’t mean to, but the link you provided sure did as part of its URL:

http://www.blastr.com/2013-8-12/ouch-fans-vote-galaxy-quest-better-trek-movie-darkness

2013-8-12

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