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Bryan Fuller Reveals “Balance of Terror” is “Touchstone” of Discovery Story

Star Trek: Discovery executive producer and showrunner Bryan Fuller tweeted yesterday that a favorite episode from The Original Series, “Balance of Terror,” is a “touchstone” for DSC’s story arc.

“Balance of Terror” is the famous TOS episode from the first season that first introduced the Romulans. In the episode, it is noted that the Earth-Romulan conflict occurred a century before 2265. The war had been waged with atomic weapons and the treaty, which was formalized over subspace radio, ending the war established the neutral zone.

balanceofterror025

Spock stated that entry into the neutral zone would be considered an act of war and that the treaty had been unbroken until that time. Kirk claimed that, after a whole century, no one would know what a Romulan ship looked like. However, Lieutenant Stiles pointed out that they are painted like a giant bird of prey.

The episode was based on classic submarine films such as The Enemy Below and Run Silent, Run Deep where Kirk and the Romulan Commander play a cat-and-mouse game that results in the Romulan ship’s destruction.

Speculation

Since Fuller referred to “Balance of Terror” as a “touchstone” for DSC, it is possible that the episode will provide a standard for which the show’s story arc will follow: perhaps one of tense conflict with an adversary.

Alternatively, as “Balance of Terror” provides no reason for the Romulan Bird of Prey’s attack on Earth outposts along the neutral zone, could a covert conflict between Starfleet and the Romulan Empire have occurred in 2255? One that Starfleet officers ten years later would not be aware of as it could jeopardize the peace treaty?

Let us know what you think of Fuller’s statement in the comments. What does this portend for DSC’s story arc?

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YES.

I would love to see the Romulans in Discovery and also I think it was a far fetch that for 100 years there was no romualn activity and nobody knows how they look. So yeah. They should definitely play around the idea and in the end it should be covered up so that the TOS comments would stand.

Touchstone means “a standard or criterion by which something is judged or recognized.” Fuller is saying the quality of “Balance of Terror” is what they’re aiming for with Discovery. It does not in any way mean the show will have anything to do with either “Balance of Terror” or Romulans.

Bullseye.

I would indeed interpret it as it having to do with Romulans.

Then you indeed don’t know what the word “touchstone” means.

Join the discussion

Great point! But also check out an alternative definition:

“A fundamental or quintessential part or feature”

Food for thought.

I can accept that too. I’m not native English speaker so maybe I didn’t got the meaning. But still I wouldn’t mind to see Romulans. But I loved the feeling of the episode Balance of Terror so if they are aiming for a feeling like that I’m fine with it

Balance this with Fuller’s other comments about Discovery involving an event we’ve ‘heard referred to but have never seen.’

I sincerely hope you are right. He has been saying that the Discovery story starts off with a connection to something only hinted at in canon Trek so far. I mustn’t be the Romulans. Their long time absence has already been established and a secret war with them just sounds lame. I have faith that Fuller is inspired by the episode, not planning on squeezing them into a 2250’s story.

Nero didn’t do anything for 20+ years in Star Trek 2009, so maybe that is a standard Romulan tactic.
>;>}

Thankfully Trek fans can enjoy their favourite show again, without any mention of Nemo, Nero or any other JJ-crap.

Hmmmm

I’d love to see it deal with Enterprise’s “Future Guy,” but I doubt it will.

I think Future Guy is officially “Bad TV.” Also, that was the one they cancelled for “franchise fatigue.”

I’m not suggesting the show be ABOUT Future Guy. I’m saying I’d love to see the show somehow wrap up that dangling plot point.

I always thought “Future Guy” was Odo from Deep Space Nine. An Odo that after returning to the great link somehow turned evil and…well…someone else can write the rest.

i think it will be good if they make it more action specific.with more battles in space and more ship action.

Being Archer would have been the stupid twist I’d have expected. Wasnt there thought of making it Shatner too.

Ti si najobičniji mučki provokator.

Worst. Suggestion. Ever.

Agreed – it would ‘close the loop’ I suppose and add some sort of closure to that open thread.

I always expected ‘Future Guy’ to be Archer…

Considering they apparently didn’t even have a plan for that, from what I’ve read, I’m content to just let that loose end… stay floppin’. :P

Really. I knew Enterprise was in big trouble creatively when I read an interview with Brannon Braga where he casually admitted that they hadn’t yet decided who Future Guy was.

To be Fair I bet a number of TV program’s would be in the same boat,they would come up with an idea and not lock it down, when the story called for it to be they would ,and no not a fan of him

Hmmm… A tv program that specializes in unresolved plot lines…. Sounds like “LOST” to me and that show did fairly well.

Ratings-wise, maybe. Not according to many of its fans, myself included.

I think he was suppossed to be from at least the 29th century, so I doubt they will deal with him in a show set in the 23rd.

Although I dislike Enterprise, I too would like a quick bit of resolution for the Future Guy mistake. If that could happen somehow in Discovery, or a future Trek series, I would be more inclined to buy the Enterprise boxset and really give it a go. But the knowledge they don’t the temporal war and the ridiculous and cruel ending with Troi, Riker and Trip’s mindless demise puts me off.

Considering how the concept of overt and Covert operations are better understood in the modern era, basically he’s saying that the Feddy’s ‘started it’…

~Pensive’s Wetness

So it’s a prequel back story covered up so it never happen which explains the Discovery design as an unknown starship which no one will ever hear about or see outside the convert events.
In effect this gives the writers to write anything they want with out affecting the original time line but will go un-acknowledged by both sides that it never happened.
Convenient disclaimer.
However the best way to keep the entire affair from ever leaking out would be to assassinate ever one in the end to keep them silent forever.
Of course any new alien contacts during this will also have to be hunted down and exterminated especially if they knew even a minor detail of these events.
Then of course there will have to be another crew of hired hit men brought in to pick off each of the assassins, but naturally they will not know why they are doing this, they are just hired to do a job no strings attached.
So in the end this will become canon that never happened.

Stay away from the Romulans. There’s no way to work them into the story without being very convoluted as to why Kirk & Co. still knew nothing about them 10 years later. And we already got lots of raised eyebrows when Enterprise tried to pull malarkey like that, i.e., the Borg, the Ferengi, and yes, the Romulans. Learn that lesson, Mr. Fuller, and don’t screw (much) with canon.

Tonally, the episode is great. But it is Captain against Captain. How will that work when the lead character isn’t the Captain?

I think the best way to use Balance of Terror as a “touchstone” would be to use the basic structure of that episode (Captain against Captain) but through the eyes of someone like Lt. Stiles, aka a first officer who questions the actions of her Captain because of second hand knowledge and experience that family history may provide. Even if the plot isn’t about the Romulans, Number One might have annectdotal insight that could be brushed off by her Captain like how Stiles was basically ignored by Kirk. It could deal with both the dangers of indoctrinated predjudices and the dangers of ignoring sound advice for fear of appearing predjudiced yourself.

I do love such concisely put-together negativity… it lets us get past all the no-nos all at once so we can start thinking about what amazing thing it could actually be! :)

That’s a great question. Let’s look at how three of my favorite shows have handled it.

THE WEST WING was originally supposed to focus ONLY on the White House staff (Sam Seaborn in particular), with the president appearing now and then in a recurring role.

We saw how that worked out.

The other series that tried something like this was MASH, where Hawkeye was chief surgeon, but not CO. It admittedly worked out better than on THE WEST WING, but Cols. Blake and Potter were still very much main characters, and Maclean Stevenson even quit when he felt his character wasn’t quite on par with Alan Alda’s. If anything, Col. Potter (Blake’s replacement) got even more airtime than Blake.

MI:5, a British series, opened up with the field operatives (Matthew Macfayden et al) nominally being the main characters, but closed with Harry Pearce — the only lead character to survive all seasons — effectively being the main character. The show’s arc revolved around him.

So I’m expecting a similar dynamic on DSC. Look for, at best, the MASH model, and more likely the captain to end up as prominent as Number One.

touch·stone
a standard or criterion by which something is judged or recognized.

It won’t be about the Romulans. It will be that TYPE of Trek

Definitely fits in better with Fuller’s style until now… been giving tidbits that really tell us nothing about the story and yet keep the fans chatting it up. I was surprised he would be so direct about a hint now.

That “TYPE” of Trek…hm…well, it’s not bad Trek per se, but why call the series “DISCOVERY” then if it’s not about exploration, strange new worlds and stuff, but yet again about space battles, interstellar cat-and-mouse chases and galactic politics? Yes, I like “Balance of Terror” and yes, I love “The Undiscovered Country”, but do I need an entire series on these sorts of storylines? Covert operations, interstellar intelligence gathering, secret missions, games of chess in three-dimensional space?

Maybe my question altready holds the answer… The Undiscovered Country was not about an undiscovered planet at all, so maybe Discovery is not about discovery of planets. life-forms etc…

Maybe it’ll be like Master and Commander, where they do exploration and science and stuff, but ALSO have a specific mission concerning a persistent adversary?

Okay. But I’m rapidly reaching the conclusion that Fuller is using a lot of words to tell us absolutely nothing. He wants it to be good Trek like BoT? Hooray! But was anyone really expecting his touchstone to be Spock’s Brain or And The Children Shall Lead?

I could see it. I always felt the battle in Trek 6 was a cinematic version of the battle in Balance of Terror and with Nick attached to this project it makes perfect sense. He’s handled two of the best ship to ship battles in Trek movie history (in my opinion)

What I find interesting about the era of this series is that the Enterprise (NCC-1701) will have already been in operation for then years! Will we see the TOS era big E in Discovery. And maybe a young Spock, Kirk, Scotty, or McCoy? I mean it’s possible that a young Scotty was an engineer on Discovery. That would be about as sweet as it gets.

A young Spock would make sense if the Enterprise showed up, not so sure about the others. Would like to keep that separate personally.

I’d love to see the 1701 make an appearance eventually, albeit somewhat refined inside and out (no, not like the J.J.-Prise!) to meet the believable standards of modern SF. The canonistas would have fits, of course, but properly handled I think it would be really cool.

I kinda hope they don’t do anything related to the Big E and her would-be crew. Maybe a very very subtle reference here and there, like “the Constellation and the Enterprise are investigating in sector blah” but like come on, it’s a big galaxy and I’d like to see this series truly break more ground. The last thing we need is another recast TOS crew.

@albatrosity Been saying this for years. Enough with the endless rehashing. Come up with something original or don’t bother.

Why is he writing tweets in all caps?

There has been some speculation about Section 31 being involved as well. If that is the case and it does involve Romulans, then the whole mission could be covert, and while they may reveal Romulans, it could also be that Section 31 or the Vulcans could force a coverup so the alliance between Earth and Vulcan is not shattered.

Fuller has repeatedly stated, no Section 31. (Which is great from my POV, since I hate the concept.)

“Fuller has repeatedly stated, no Section 31.”

Fuller actually stated Section 31 isn’t *directly* responsible for DSC’s triggering incident but the organisation is nevertheless “the marble running through the meat of the story”.

Citation, or link?

“Citation, or link?”

http://www.startrek.com/article/bryan-fuller-reveals-discovery-details

“Responding to specific questions, Fuller also divulged the following:

“There’s an incident, an event, in the history of Starfleet that has been talked about (in previous Star Trek shows), but never fully explored.”

Section 31 is not directly involved in that incident/event, “but that’s not to say that might not have some marble through the meat of our season.””

IF you look at the Star Trek Discovery logo, about “31%” of it has a line running through the delta. i’ve wondered if Sec.31 might have been involved in this for a while now, but the show runner says contrary. If it was Pegg poo-pooing Sec.31 being involved, I’d be convinced it was. But, that’s just my 2 cents worth.

I know how it ends. Romulus blows up.

So in other words, neither the author of this article nor those responding to it know what the word “touchstone” means. It doesn’t mean what you think it means, since it does NOT indicate the show will have anything to do with the Romulans.

Perhaps you missed the fact that I used a synonym for touchstone?

….and Balance of Terror was derived from a 1957 Robert Mitchum WWII submarine movie called “The Enemy Below,” which is HIGHLY recommended for anyone who loves BOT. Great movie.

Trivia aside, I agree with those who say DSC should stay away from the Romulans, since ten years later, only then does the Federation literally get their first look at them. The time period the show is being set in troubles me. I imagine another species will serve as the antagonist…

So…. what is a neutral zone when you cannot see or contact your enemy? What happens there? How is that maintained for 100 years? What happens if you have a resource need that can only be satisfied by violating that agreement with the hope your violation will never be discovered?

If “Touchstone” also means “the incident” in Trek history that has never been addressed, there’s a lot “Discovery” could be without ever seeing Romulans. One, we’ve never heard what the diplomatic rules of this neutral zone really are. And two) overt Romulans kind of suck! It would be amazing to see a whole “novel” of a seaon where they are playing hide and seek but never find the Romulans until the last moment of the last episode. REVEAL: “They’re goddam dirty Vulcans!” Charlton Heston style.

Like Stranger Things, you can drag out the drama, resuse locations and make it all work like a giant set piece.

Well! As a jumping-off point for a Trek series you could certainly do worse. “Balance of Terror” may not be my absolutely favorite episode of TOS, but you sure can make a case that it’s the most technically perfect–the writing, directing, acting, and music combining into something much richer than an episode of a TV series of that time had any right to be. It almost lives up Roddenberry’s (and Bob Justman’s) aspirations for what the show should look, sound, and feel like: half a science fiction movie, on your TV screens and in living color, every week.

(That said, I finally got around to watching The Enemy Below recently and all I can say is that if “Balance of Terror” were made today, there’s a fair chance the film’s writers would have to receive some sort of credit, or even compensation. Some major plot points in both stories are really, really close.)

I’m a little more interested in his love for “Devil in the Dark,” which is even more a story about a foe that turns out to have something in common with the heroes, and involves a resolution that pleases all parties.

https://twitter.com/BryanFuller/status/773937156498698240

There’s probably nothing else to know. Fuller mentioned “Devil in the Dark” in relation to the 50th anniversary, while he mentioned “Balance of Terror” specifically with DSC. That suggests that “Devil” is just a favorite, not related to DSC.

That’s a pity… at least “Devil” stories would involve some strange new life-forms from time to time. Done with modern-day SFX and creative artists, this concept could really work for me: intelligent stories about how to deal with unknown alien “enemies” that turn out to be harmless if handled with care. Overcoming ignorance when it comes to truly unknown forms of existence. Now THAT is what Star Trek should be about, not space battles, cat-and-mouse games between starship commanders and covert operations…

I think that Fuller (or one of his colleagues) has stated that the show will feature more exotic aliens, as opposed to the “forehead of the week.”

I think he meant “erotic”. Discovery is going to be like Game of Thrones

The more I hear about Discovery, the more I’m convinced this is a season being made for nostalgia reasons… and that’s not a good thing.

That and two prequels in a row is too many, CBS!

Same.
It’s like a fanboy with a crackpot obsession with TOS has somehow found himself in a position to make a series of his nostalgic idea.

Personally I have no interest in TOS and never have, I’m an 80’s kid. I have no desire to see a 3rd prequel in the franchise as I want to go forward, not backward.

I wont be paying to watch this, particularly as us Brits don’t get to watch the first episode before deciding on a subscription. CBS completely bypassed Sky over here in favour of online-only via Netflix. Up until this point Sky have always been the channel Trek premiers on.

CBS have made a dumb move by shoehorning STD to Netflix. There’s absolutely no way it will gather new fans as the whole thing is behind a paywall, people need to intentionally subscribe to see if it’s for them or not.

This will be America’s “top gear” flop.

Because nothing on Netflix has been remotely successful…except for House of Cards, Orange is the New Black, Narcos, Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Bloodline, The Killing…and of course Star Trek: Discovery.

At £5.99 a month, that’s an absolute steal for Netflix’s library of original programming, television shows, films, and documentaries. Further, there are currently around 5 million Netflix subscribers in the UK, with that number forecast to rise to 9.5 million by 2020. Roughly 7% of your population subscribes to Netflix, with that number projected to double by 2020. That number is rising because of the content Neflix provides.

This sounds eerily similar to when premium movie channels like HBO began producing their own content. The paywall hasn’t hurt Game of Thrones, The Wire, The Sopranos, Entourage, True Blood, Sex and the City, In Treatment, Big Love, Ballers, Oz, Silicon Valley, John Adams, The Night Of, The Newsroom, Boardwalk Empire, Band of Brothers, Rome, Six Feet Under, Veep, Curb Your Enthusiasm, Flight of the Conchords, True Detective, Deadwood…

If HBO wasn’t locked into a contract with Sky to air its programming on Sky Atlantic, you’d likely see a version of HBO Now in the UK that costs the same as a Netflix subscription and gives you every single season of every HBO series plus films.

Netflix has over 30 million members. I think the series will be exposed to people just fine.

That “paywall” has made TV so much better over the years.

COMPLETELY agree TUP. We’re in a golden age of television where there is so much content flowing. The networks have been left behind and cable channels, as well as streaming services, are producing so much quality programming that it’s difficult to keep up with.

And not only is the content great, but the format (and quality) has attracted some really good actors back to TV.

I’ll torrent it if the first show looks any good, but won’t be paying for it either way.

I share the concerns of others, in that making the thing a serial will obliterate casual viewers, and this heavy focus on TOS is out of the interest area of most people not born in the 60’s & 70’s.
This is going to suffer exactly the same fate as Enterprise due to the inherent impossibility of cannonical continuation. Even worse that this guy seems to want to go in different directions, so we’ll likely end up with something which doesn’t fit the established feel of that time period. We know exactly what that time period looks like as 2009 already established it at several points in the 10 years before Kirk got the Enterprise. I think people will be far less willing to write it off as some kind of alternate timeline again.

And yes, it is a disappointment with every little bit of news filtering through as I for one want to see the federation going forward, not yet another prequel about it’s formation and early days. It holds no interest to me whatsoever. I get bored with TOS now just as much as I did as a kid in the 80s.

It seems this is only going to be of interest to “fanboys” who always choose Kirk-era cosplay at conventions, alas it’s not for me.

Aaron (Naysayers are gonna nay)

The main, NOT CAPTAIN, character will be a Romulan spy. Her journey will be to realize that the Federation is NOT the enemy she was raised to believe them to be. Of course she will look human from alterations and maybe by the end she will adopt humanity as her own.

Think about the wonderful things BSG did with hidden spies among the crew and the suspense it ramped up. Suspense is what TV needs to keep viewers coming back in this day and age and this would be a great way to do it. Every so often she is ordered to do something that she doesn’t like more and more. Our torn, anti-hero, would be a great breath of fresh air for Trek. I see her doing things like subtly sabotaging the ship and even killing the captain and taking his/her spot. I think the character will definitely be tortured about all this!

Anyways, I am a seven time published author and that is my speculation. I hope this road of discovery is what they are planning to take. What do you all think?

I like the idea of telling this story through the eyes of a female lieutenant commander.
I hope they don’t ruin that concept by making her a Romulan spy.

That could dove tail with my theory she might be Vulcan. And the inclusion (possibly) of the Amanda character. She appears to be Vulcan but is actually Romulan? There was a TOS episode where Kirk went undercover as a Romulan to spy, right? Maybe this is the reverse.

That’s actually a pretty interesting scenario. One hundred quatloos says you’re wrong, though. :-)

Aaron (Naysayers are gonna nay)

We can only hope for something deep. :)

I bet the whole ship was made and crewed by Romulans.
*yawn*

It would certainly explain the U.S.S. Discovery looking like a non-typical Federation/almost quasi-Klingon design… until the Romulans see the ship markings.

I know it’s a classic episode, but are aspects of Balance of Terror even considered canon anymore?

Why wouldn’t Balance of Terror be considered Canon?

It’s funny, if you look back at my old posts I talk about the idea of rebooting the whole thing based on BoT. It was something I discussed on TREKBBS around the turn of the century, and I thought it would make an ideal ‘first’ mission.

Balance of Terror was one of the finest, if not the finest, episodes ever of any iteration of Trek. That is setting the bar pretty high. Hopefully he does not mean like The Wrath of Khan was a touchstone for Star Trek Into Darkness.

Pffft, he wishes.

unless you’re not a fan of TOS, which I’m not.

All this talk of a covert Federation mission to Romulan space brings to mind Diane Carey’s Star Trek novel Final Frontier from 1989. The story is about a secret rescue mission by the, still unfinished, USS Enterprise under the command of Captain Robert April and Commander George Samuel Kirk as First Officer.

I would love to be a fly on the wall in the room where the writers have their ‘scrum’. The process must be fascinating.

century: 100 years (not 10)

You deserve a cookie

What I hope that Fuller means by “touchstone” is that DSC will be modeled after the quality of “Balance of Terror”, in terms of it being more of a psychological thriller as opposed to being heavy on running-around, wall-to-wall action. A show like The Expanse, for example. There’s action in the show, just as there is action in “Balance of Terror,” but the most important action takes place in your mind as you’re watching the show. Politics, cold-war gamesmanship, strategy, issues of war and peace—these things don’t necessarily involve a lot of running around. Doesn’t make them any less exciting, tough. It makes them more exciting.

I freely admit, however, that this could be wishful thinking on my part. As with Fuller’s past revelations about DSC, this one is excessively vague, to the point of being ambiguous and easily misinterpreted.

The Expanse is excellent.

Both ‘The Expanse’ and ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ are being produced here in Toronto and will be aired on January 2017 as well.

Definitely agreed on “The Expanse,” though I hope that it finds more focus and cohesion in its second season. Like TOS it’s a landmark step in getting intelligent SF on television, and I wish it every success.

And let us not forget that The Expanse’s showrunner is none other than Naren Shankar, a TNG alum.

Maybe like Master and Commander, there you don’t actually see the enemy. And they could play hide and seek for ten episodes. Could nearly destroy Discovery at the beginning and then they have to repair and find the enemy ship.

i am very excite for this new serie. i am wonder what the new ship will be really look like?

I like how Star Trek back in the sixties had self-contained episodes.

All the Star Trek series did.

Opinions will vary. But serialized drama, to me, increases the enjoyment. I makes every episode important and meaningful. The key is to make the episode excellent in the moment AND as part of a larger picture. DS9 was VERY good at this (Enterprise, not so much). And I re-watched much of DS9 a few years ago and was hooked again by its war storyline and how excellent it was.

In fact, take The Sopranos. Loved it when I watched it as it aired, but it became even better when I had the DVD’s and could watch it as quickly as possible. Perceived weaknesses in its plot were actually made moot when I could see how stories developed and evolved over time. And yet, just about any episode could be watched and enjoyed for that episode.

All due respect, I like it that they’re going for something different. I love TOS (or at least, as Futurama had it, “the good ones,” but that series is now 50 years old, and the best of prestige TV these days follows a serialized format. You can still deal with individual characters, themes, and situations in specific episodes (as The Sopranos, Deadwood, and Breaking Bad were able to do). TOS fans tend to treat the series as one great narrative anyway, mentally filling in the gaps and glossing over the fact that the shows very rarely reference each other. Why not take advantage of the fact that these days your characters can change over time? It might have been fruitful, for example, for TOS to acknowledge that after the events of “The City on the Edge of Forever,” James Kirk would never be the same.

Agreed. serialized drama is a fun ride…soap operas have been riding the crest, hooking housewives for the past 50 years. But for me, it’s only enjoyable for the immediate moment and offers zero re-watchability. Loved every season of 24, and Lost had me hooked like no other. But I’ll never watch them again. Was pleased to learn that Discovery will be a mix of both serialized and stand alones. I like to revisit my fav Treks, but 13-hour long episodes have no appeal whatsoever.

Never watched 24, and ceased giving Lost any of my time once it became clear that the writers were just winging it and had no idea whatsoever how to deal with so many of the potentially fascinating philosophical issues they’d raised. But for me, at least, the best individual episodes of “Deadwood,” “Mad Men,” and “Breaking Bad” are as compelling on their own terms as ever — no different than the best of TOS — and don’t suffer at all for being part of a larger narrative arc. In any case, likening shows of such dramatic and thematic ambition to “All My Children” really isn’t fair.

I think TMP was 13 hours long. . . at least it felt like it

That’s why the Kelvin Timeline films were made for you. By all means, enjoy.

+MH
Good one!

serialised will obliterate the casual viewer.

We are almost half way through September and we still do not know who the characters are or who is playing them. We have no idea what the sets will look like or how much special effects they will put into the show. When are they going to announce some casting?

Fuller is running this show. They are all black women and gay men. What more do you need to know?

That sounds like “Orange is the New Black” or maybe it would be “Discovery is the New Black”.

I watched the first three minutes of that show. Was some black woman ogling a naked white woman in the shower. ‘Damn, you got nice titties’.

Really? Is that what people want to watch on tv? I think the critics all like it cause it’s ‘edgy’ but I don’t think that many people watch it.

@Jodet – many people want to watch Orange. its very successful and very popular. I love it. Im not sure why you felt the need to detail the ethnicity of the two women. Maybe thats the root of your dislike with the series. Its prison. If it wasnt edgy it would be silly.

As for Discovery, if they are filming in TO in a couple of weeks, I’d hope for some leaks. I mean, someone will see them filming. I have a friend who is an actress in TO actually…

I doubt Discovery will be as popular as “Orange”

ALL black women and gay men, really? Are you sure that some of them aren’t bi-racial transgender?

Seriously — what’s the matter with you? Are you a troll who just can’t help himself, professionally stupid, or both?

YUP.

Fuller has indicated we might hear casting news in October.

@Ryan,

Last I heard that we will get new information in October.

But filming was also said to start in late September. So we damn sure ought to at least hear who the cast is any day now. Weren’t their rumors about Bakula for months before Enterprise was unveiled?

@Thorny,

They announced ENT cast in May 2001, four months before the ENT premiere. Given that filming will start on September 26, I think that they will release cast info before that or it will be leaked by a third party.

A leak is certainly possible, but remember that CBS is doing the rollout here. Paramount gave us a lot of details on the Trek spinoffs, but CBS is keeping their cards close to their chest. As Fuller has stated, I’d bet on an official casting announcement in October once episodes one and two have been filmed. As far as official details about the plot of the show, I’m thinking December.

Sounds like they’re flying by the seat of their pants on this whole thing. Between that and the cluster**** that is the CBS streaming service this whole show may crash and burn sooner than later.

It may indeed crash and burn — or, it could turn out to be the best thing with ‘Star Trek’ in the title for the last twenty years, or ever. Nick Meyer, for his part, is not unaccustomed to getting great results on a very tight schedule. (OTOH, BEYOND certainly demonstrates how critical it is to have sufficient time to develop a project.)

We really won’t know for sure until January. At this point I doubt that Mr. Spock, at least, would be prone to speculate.

@Michael Hall,

Ever since they announced that ‘Discovery’ is set in the Prime universe and not Kelvin timeline, that HP guy was doing nothing but trashing the show before even seeing a single live-action frame!

#Sad!

If nothing else, this article has taught Star Trek fans how to use online dictionaries.

Please, just don’t let Nick Meyer turn the Discovery into a low lit, claustrophobic submarine in space! Meyer gets characters, and motivations, he doesn’t (and never did) understand Star TREK. I guess I’m one of the few who thinks TUV has aged incredibly badly, and WAK is a heavily flawed masterpiece. I hope there’s just as much exploration in this series as well as the obligatory conflicts too, if the Balance of Terror comment is correct. Ideally a balance between Roddenberry’s core ideals and Meyer’s sense of drama and character interplay would be perfect! We desperately need a show with a sense of optimism on air again. I’m hoping Discovery with be that show.

“. . .WAK is a heavily flawed masterpiece. I hope there’s just as much exploration in this series as well as the obligatory conflicts too, if the Balance of Terror comment is correct. Ideally a balance between Roddenberry’s core ideals and Meyer’s sense of drama and character interplay would be perfect!”

Couldn’t agree more, on all counts.

Nick Meyer doesnt get Star Trek? I nearly choked on my morning coffee. Meyer gave Trek a much needed identity as a military organization. It allowed TNG to exist as a counter point to the claustrophobic, militaristic, dark, troubling TOS era. I love both. But Meyer GETS Star Trek.

I’d go even further and say that Meyer saved Star Trek. If the Wrath of Khan wasn’t a hit, the franchise would’ve ended. He turned around a screenplay within two weeks, declined writing credits, and made one of the best Star Trek films. That’s not to mention how instrumental he was in writing the Earth scenes in Star Trek IV, and then bringing us my personal favorite of the film series…The Undiscovered Country.

@John – agreed. I get what people say but if they want to see a Star Trek that is just people flying around looking at soil samples for three hours, then I guess thats what fan fiction is for. Meyer gave Star Trek a much-needed identity. He didnt come up with the navel premise but he made it clearer. And the submarine aspects were brilliant. Again, a much needed identity.

Let me clarify that. Meyer understands the character interplay. Character types. Drama. Classic novels & plays (which he over-quotes in his films as if to give them some added sense of pathos and class.). He does not and never did understand the ‘Roddenberry core’ of Star Trek. In fact I think he hated that side of it. He has mentioned this himself. WOK and TUC were both the most violent of the orginal cast Trek movies. The bridge scenes in both were aways darkened and very dingy looking. The uniforms were hopelessly bulky and looking backwards in style towards naval history, instead of forwards. He mentioned turning the Enterprise into a sub in any way he could. They were the most blatantly militaristic of the films. They both featured moments that had the actors very uncomfortable with what he was making the characters do or say. Some refused to say moments of his dialogue. Meyer is great at the nautical elements of Horatio Hornblower in outer space. He’s not good at Star TREKing. Of course, just my humble opinion, and I respect yours. Let’s keep it classy ;)

@I,may – yes and for all those reasons, he should be adored.

Atoz the Unforgettable

Just let it be, it’s colloquial speech. We’ve all said something outside the bounds of PC. Let’s not allow this thread to devolve into a social debate, unlike the previous 3000 posted stories.

‘Beyond’ is following the same trend in China as well!

————————————–

STAR TREK BEYOND earned est. $2.8M on Friday, -71% from opening day. China’s total stands at $45M

https://twitter.com/ChinaBoxOffice/status/774277337827405824

Just not a whole lot of reasons to see the thing twice, was there?

@Michael Hall

Yeah, as The Dissolve put it in their STID review, these movies are basically:

“the cinematic equivalent of a Big Mac box: bright, colorful, carefully designed, and intended to be discarded after a single use, without any consideration whatsoever.”!

I passed out of respect for the original Kirk, Spock, McCoy.

So I assume you don’t watch any fan films where the big three have been recast either, you know, “out of respect”

Do those fan films have frat-boy Kirk banging hot alien babes two at a time and ‘getting bored’ with being a Captain?

Like all Trek movies.

@Harry Plinkett,

Nope.

Ahmed Today 8:54 am

Yup.

And wouldn’t you know that the same pattern of ticket sales sharply declining after people started seeing the movie would repeat in China as it did in the US. I guess the same forces must be at work there as here—everything, that is, except for the quality of the actual movie, which is “brilliant,” despite the obviously irrational consumer behavior curiously repeating itself in China, as it did in the US and everywhere else that the movie’s ticket sales have sharply declined after people started seeing it. Maybe Paramount should have bought ad space for BEYOND during the Chinese Super Bowl. Or whatever.

@Cygnus-X1,

The Chinese partners, Alibaba and Huahua, has been marketing ‘Beyond’ aggressively for the past couple weeks according to Variety and Deadline reported that:

“STB has Chinese investment in it via Alibaba Pictures and Huahua Media. The latter put on a huge promotional push in the Middle Kingdom while Alibaba said yesterday that its Yulebao subsidiary has launched more than 300 types of movie-derived products in conjunction with the film’s release and which are being sold via the company’s online platforms.”

Guess that regardless of any marketing, it was really up to the movie itself to convince the people to watch it or to recommend it to their friends. That simply didn’t happen in North America, Europe, South America and now China!

Ahmed Today 2:20 pm

300 types of movie-derived products in conjunction with the film’s release!!!

That’s a whole lotta cross-merchandising.

*Cross-marketing* I mean.

@Cygnus-X1,

I was reading Chinese audience comments on their version of IMDB called Douban, and it seems that while some enjoyed it for the special effects and action, others didn’t like it for the simple story and felt it was boring too! The site is in Chinese but using Chrome you can get an idea of what they’re saying in general, here are samples of the comments made regarding STB:

– Good looking, a little humor
– Pretty good, a bit sleepy in the middle
– Like, super intense, great fight scenes, the last option is very ingenious weapon
– Drama bit weak.
– Cool very enjoyable
– The same sci-fi blockbuster routine ..
– In addition to special effects, nothing!
– Logical loopholes large enough to actually feel not so good.
– A punk save the universe # sabotage #
– Special effects division. The plot is simple, no-brainer
– No logic, the plot chaos
– For the first time in the cinema fell asleep, woke up when people are gone. Happiness is like a dream.
-3D effect is good, very suitable for 3D space theme, the plot is relatively worse visual effects, but to be honest mainly look at the effect, I feel good
– Routine little obvious, overall not worth a visit

https://movie.douban.com/subject/22939161/comments?sort=time

Ahmed,

Those garbled comments were just awesomely awesome. Thanks for making my day. ;-)

Ahmed, this one made me laugh out loud:

“For the first time in the cinema fell asleep, woke up when people are gone. Happiness is like a dream.”

Our first authentic Trek koan! (I knowChinese not Japanese, but still.)

is there trek haiku? I’m assuming klingons would give voice to japanese something like this:
ah so,
desa ku,
I stab me,
you stab you.

(only 11 syllables in english, maybe more in japanese?)

Some of us saw this coming, even in the face of good reviews and the devout arguing from people here. As good as Beyond was in some ways, it was wholly forgettable. And thats what we’re seeing.

I grew up completely crazy over trek in the 80’s. I would have been extremely unhappy to have missed even a single episode of TNG, DS9, VOY. Enterprise was okay, but cut down in it’s prime.

I know all the trek movies inside out and have seen every one in the cinema from Undiscovered Country right up to Into Darkness.

This is the first time I’ve not gone to the cinema to watch a trek film, and I don’t intend to. The rebooted franchise is unappealing to me, having hoped that Into Darkness would redeem itself from 2009, which it did not.

I will probably watch it on Sky Movies whenever the DVD release date is because it will be included in my subscription package. I’m not paying £10 to watch it in the cinema out of principle for making a generic sci fi movie and expecting to slap the words “Star Trek” on to it to make money.

It’s rubbish and a poor reflection of what I enjoy in Trek, I refuse to support it or I’ll just be validating Paramount making more of the damned things.

The “Touchstone” that is Balance of Terror (my favorite episode since 1966) is not the Romulan conflict in itself, what I always enjoyed about the episode was how 18th Century it was. As fast as warp drive and sub-space communication was, it was not instantaneous, and when you are out on the rim even sub-space communication can take hours or even days to get a reply… that is the true romance of a ship exploring on deep patrol, like the HMB Endeavor or the USS Columbia. Explorers having to make the tough decisions without checking in. If you break down “Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World”, it really is a remake of “Balance of Terror”.

True. It would be great if DSC recaptures the feeling of early episodes like BOT and “The Corbomite Maneuver:” being really far from home and out of touch, on the edge of the great unknown.

I wonder what sort of tone their going for with this show Something along the lines of BSG 2004 maybe? I wouldn’t argue with that.

Good Grief,NO! Coming from a military family and being ex-mil, Battlefart Galactica 2004 was an even worse show that the Larson one, I have never seen such unprofessionalism in a military setting, especially Forbes’ character in ‘Razor’ but the dummies out there that don’t know any better lapped it up, saying it was the greatest thing since sliced bread etc. I could write a thesis but it was hard to get through an episode with all that saluting ‘without cover’
and that’s just the starting point. I bet Moore didn’t even have an advisor on set or even any Commonwealth or US service/training manuals on hand. The Last Ship has been rather tight in that respect, though one gaff in last week’s
episode, but that could slip as Chandler had no hat on, and no one caught it. Though my main beef with Moore’s vision was the characters’ relations to each other but Razor was the worst. Best to just let it fade into history..
& Don’t give me that ‘its an alien culture thing’….it was a bad show, lovely visuals but that was about it.

The Last Ship = depiction of the U.S. Navy. Battlestar Galactica = depiction of a fictional Colonial fleet. You can hold The Last Ship to the standard of a realistic depiction of the Navy (as my wife and I do), but you can’t do the same with Battlestar Galactica set in a fictional science fiction setting. Moore didn’t need a military advisor as he was injecting a military structure into the universe Larson had created.

Well I was never in the military but I’m not exactly sure how a military structure could even be maintained under those literal doomsday scenarios depicted in that story. The human race reduced from billions to literally tens of thousands. Their home worlds destroyed by nuclear attack. Not to mention being hunted on a continual bases by the Cylons on top of having infiltrators amongst them. Also in a show like that you have to have some creative “license” to tell a compelling story imo. Sorry but we’ll agree to disagree on BSG 2004. I maintain its one of the best Science fiction series of all time that touched on a lot of relevant social ,Religious and political themes that many shows wouldn’t have touched with a ten foot pole..

Seconded Hugh. BSG has set a high bar for science fiction in the 21st century.

Exactly John. If Discovery can get near that bar it’ll be a big win for the show imo. Cant wait to see what they come up with.

Another post making me hate this thing.

Damn TOS fanboys running the show. grr.

Sorry. You’ll have your precious three JJ-movies you can watch on repeat. While Trek gets back to being Trek.

Can’t stand them mate.

Feel free to leave and don’t let the door hit ur butt on the way out hater. :]

You think I’m going to pay to watch this bull?

Well I was being facetious in my comment above but no I don’t expect you to pay for something you don’t like. The only thing you can do is re-watch the old shows except TOS which you seem to dislike. But I’ll give the show at least a chance until it gives mr a reason not to watch.

It’s also a f***ing prequel. So damned tired of going backwards for the sake of pleasing TOS fanboys, with the inevitable flop. Welcome to the USA’s “Top Gear”.

going backwards. lol

Flop Gear

No Romulans please! No one on Kirk’s Enterprise circa 2266 even knew that they looked like Vulcans until Balance of Terror. This mystery Romulan identity problem was narrowly avoided in Enterprise. I hope you don’t try to crudely shoe-horn Romulan content just because the Rommies are cool (which they are, but NOT in 2256).

I think the Romulans have proven to be an interesting race to cover. I thought they were moving in an interesting path on Enterprise with them.

Star Trek Beyond just went over 318million WW. Not a flop exactly. Underperforming against its budget for sure. But we get it ahmed, you don’t like TOS, sheesh. :]

I take it you’re only considering the production budget. In reality the advertising and marketing + production = a marginal gross loss, give or take the upcoming DVD sales.
That’s not how Paramount or any other production/distribution house can exist.
At best we’ll get one more JJ directed film before it’s mothballed.

I’ve heard that formula repeated many times but I’m not so sure its as etched in stone as some seem to believe, or we wouldn’t be getting as many sequel/reboots as we do. Its money, and money can be manipulated in a thousand ways. We’re dealing with big corporations here and they know how to work it. Either way it may actually lose money as far as I know. Only time will tell if we get a sequel or not. I hope so because I really enjoyed Beyond.

Hugh trying to hang biased on anyone is hilarious. Beyond is a flop. Go ahead, say I dont like TOS…

TUP its underperforming against its budget imo, that’s far from a flop such as Ben Hur and others this summer. As far as you liking or disliking TOS I have no idea.

You accused someone of anti-Beyond bias when their remarks were on-point regardless of their opinion of TOS or JJ-Trek. Its a flop compared to what they expected. Is it as big a flop as some? No. But a flop nontheless.

@Hugh Hoyland, “I’ve heard that formula repeated many times but I’m not so sure its as etched in stone as some seem to believe, or we wouldn’t be getting as many sequel/reboots as we do. ” Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about. Studios are not charities, they don’t spend money just to break even, they want profit. Take a look at Terminator Genisys, a movie that grossed $450 million, more than $132 million from ‘Beyond’, that is a lot of money, right? Surely they will make as many sequels as they can according to your “logic”! Well, Paramount cancelled the two sequels that were announced. And this is just one example, there are many others. And you keep ignoring the marketing & distribution budget, perhaps you think that the theaters will show the movie out of love and won’t take a cut! ‘Beyond’ marketing budget was $120 million, when you add that to the $185 million production budget, then the movie actual cost is $305 million. You may not like the news but acting like it is not true won’t change the fact that ‘Beyond’ is a flop. Not according to me, but to the box office numbers, the trades and the people who actually know about the money business in Hollywood. Now, I’m sure that we will see another Star Trek movie, Paramount doesn’t have that many franchises to begin with, but the question is will they continue with the current movies or take a… Read more »

I’ll agree we’ll have to wait and see what happens with the movies and Discovery ahmed. The rest is conjecture on your part unless your a CEO of a major motion picture company.

@Hugh Hoyland,

“The rest is conjecture on your part unless your a CEO of a major motion picture company.”

Hilarious! You seem to be the kind of the person that don’t like facts if it doesn’t fit their personal wishes #Sad!

Stating that studios are not charities is not a conjecture; it is a fact of life.

What I wrote about ‘Terminator Genisys’ is not a conjecture, it is based on facts. A year before the movie was out Paramount announced TWO sequels to be released on May 19, 2017 and June 29, 2018. The movie’s production budget was $155 million and it grossed $440 million worldwide, what happened next? In October 2015, “The Hollywood Reporter said that the sequels and TV spin-off were on hold indefinitely because Terminator Genisys failed to break even.”

“Beyond’ production & marketing budget are available from all the trades and business news sources. Its terrible box office performance was reported by all major Hollywood news sites, again not a conjecture.

Try to read the trades, you’ll have a better and real picture!

amhem
Your and your the kind of person that believes everything they read, foolish.

But keep looking for articles that validate your opinion because you seem to need it desperately my friend. And as I said maybe it will lose money, maybe they will make a sequel, maybe they wont. Maybe Discovery will be great, maybe it’ll suck. Only time will tell.

@Hugh Hoyland,

“Your and your the kind of person that believes everything they read, foolish.”

Alright, I’m done with you. Not going to waste time with a delusional person. Have fun in your dream world.

Thanks ahmed, it was a conversation that was going no where fast.

Hugh Hoyland Today 2:35 pm

But we get it ahmed, you don’t like TOS, sheesh.

Well, that’s quite a willfully incorrect conclusion to draw. He didn’t say a word about TOS.

“Ahmed
August 8, 2016 11:21 a
@Gene L. Coon,

Trek’s brand is fragmented. Reality is that the only Trek universe that has any crossover appeal is TOS.”
(Only in your echo chamber! Go over to any Trek forums and you will see how many new fans find it so difficult to get into TOS, the show is campy and outdated for anyone under the age of 30.)
“Is TOS is running out of steam? Does this mean no more Trek movies? ”
(Well, I guess people are just sick of watching Kirk & Spock over and over. You may find it hard to believe but Star Trek is not just about TOS!
With ‘Beyond’ underperforming domestically and worldwide, they need either to reduce ST 14 budget or to come up with a different story with a new crew and ship.)

@Cygnus-X1 This is a convo ahmed had with another poster over on the Beyond spoiler thread. I stand by what I typed. He’s not a fan of TOS.

@Hugh Hoyland,

Stating facts doesn’t mean that I’m not a TOS fan. The show is campy and outdated by our modern standards. And Star Trek is not TOS only, there are other directions for the movies to explore, rather than keep doing stories about Kirk and Spock.

And this whole deflection from you is rather weak, since we are talking about ‘Beyond’ but you already know that.

ahmed
you seem to enjoy putting forth your personal opinion as fact. Your argument that “anyone” under 30 doesn’t like TOS because in your opinion its “campy and outdated” is the same mindset that some people have that prohibits them from watching black and white shows because that must mean their “old” or “boring”. The truth is there are plenty of new fans that love TOS, and sure, some don’t and think its “outdated” ect., others love TNG, others think its dull. Still others dig DS9 but not VOY and so forth. TOS may have been made 50 years ago, but many of the themes it touched upon are timeless and still relevant in this day and age too. So if you chose to dislike it because its FX and acting were of its time and not a CGI laden show shot in UHD that’s your lose imo.

The truth is your not stating facts, your stating your opinion that you seem to really want others to believe. And its not a deflection that I bring up the fact that you’ve admitted that you think TOS is “campy and outdated”. I bring it up because I highly suspect its a big motivation for your incessant naysaying against the new Trek movies (which are based on TOS) and anyone who likes them that you’ve done on these boards for years now.

Hugh, do you own stock in Paramount or is the CEO your Uncle?

TUP is ahmed your uncle or boyfriend?

@Hugh – oh is that your way of using an old playground taunt of “you’re gay?” Figures.

My remark to you had nothing to do with what Ahmed wrote. It was wholly aimed at your repeated efforts to minimize the failure of Beyond. I could reply in kind but you did a better job of embarrassing yourself than I could.

@Hugh Hoyland,

No, it is not just my opinion, go to Reddit or any major Trek forum and you will see that new fans who want to start watching Star Trek series, can’t get into TOS most of the time. They will either skip the entire series and watch the TOS movies or they will watch the major episodes only and skip the rest.

And your last paragraph shows that you don’t read what people saying, you impose your own meaning to fit your own perception. FYI my problems with the NuTrek is not because they’re based on TOS, far from it. These movie are shadow of TOS, they offer nothing really new, and none of the ideas that made TOS a good science fiction series to begin with.

ahmed
Seriously? every new fan that posts on reddit or these forums say they don’t like TOS because its “campy and outdated” in your opinion? You need to look harder because your just reading posts that validate your opinion. As I said SOME new fans think that way, others love it. They often have varying opinions on all the old shows.

And no I read exactly what you typed and I didn’t impose anything any meaning on it. Its there in black and white and easy to read. Your just trying to back track what you said by implying it isn’t really…what you said. But how are these movies “shadows” of TOS? How do they have none of the ideas that made TOS a good science fiction series. That science fiction series that have Kirk and Spock which you say people are sick of watching btw.

@Hugh Hoyland,

Any movie that does not break even, by doubling its production budget, is a flop. ‘Beyond’ hasn’t broken even yet, in order to do that it needs $370 million (Production cost $185 million x 2 = $370 million). That’s the formula used by box office experts and the trades.

And no, I don’t hate TOS, not that we are not talking about TOS here anyway. These movies are shallow imitations of TOS.

How can Balance of Terror be a Touch Stone? There were no strange new worlds, no new civilisations, it didn’t Boldly go anywhere. Just a war story- if that’s the arc for Discovery. A random pointless battle I will be disappointed but I would not be surprised. A 23rd century 13 episode DS9. Going nowhere, doing nothing just wallowing in gritty “relatable” cynicism. I am not seing any promise to this show.

Well said. For the life of me, i just don’t understand the need or even appeal of a show so close to the Enterprise era, and to TOS. The idea of ‘re-imagining’ established looks of ships and aliens. Why not move forward.. God forbid producer took chances and actuallh strived to CREATE and not rehash.

I wish people would stop with the “move forward” and “go backward” nonsense.

@TUP,

Some of us want to see what is happening in the post-Nemesis Federation, nothing is remotely wrong with that.

@ Ahmed

Except Nemesis was arguably the worst Star Trek movie, and it nearly killed the franchise.

So those asking for a post-Nemesis show — what exactly are you proposing? A continuation of the Dominion War? That story arc is done. A continuation of Voyager? Voyager had problems. And how do you build off of something as dreadful as Nemesis?

I’ve heard a lot of complaints about DSC not being set post-Nemesis, but I haven’t heard a single good idea about how to deal with all the canon that leads up to that point, or what that show would look like.

Let’s say your idea is 25th or 26th century to put some distance from TNG/DS9/VOY, how does one deal with that kind of massive leap in technology? You can’t simply ignore it, and it would negate the point entirely if your idea is to minimize technology.

@SkiesSeven,

What that has to do with setting the series afterward? No one asking for the series to be a direct sequel to NEM.

They could set the series a 100 or more years after NEM, in another galaxy and explore new worlds and different alien races, either on a new starship or an outpost.

Or they deal with new races within the Milky Way galaxy that arise after the collapse of the former galaxy power players.

And what’s wrong with advanced technology? You’re making it sound like no one can make a series in the far future because the technology will solve everything. Well, that is the job of the writers to come up with a way to utilize the technology in a way that don’t hinder the story.

Netflix is working now on ‘Altered Carbon’ a series set on the 26th century. Perhaps they should have set it in the 21st century to avoid the horror of magical technology!

The post Nemesis crowd tripped and fell over the revisionist idea that Gene said Star Trek must always move forward and they somehow assume he meant literally keep pushing the year the shows/films take place in.

Basically these people can be summed up like this:

“The new show takes place in the year 2150”
“This is the worst show ever.”

“The new show takes place in the year 2500”
“This is the best show ever”

The exact same facts and knowledge of the quality, content, plots, casting etc are known in both cases. But its those who confuse opinion with fact that have trouble wrapping their brains around that.

@Ahmed – I want to see what happened on July 25th 2107. Should they make a series about it?

Secondly, my issue isnt with the fans who had hoped for a post Nemesis series, even though those people need to get over it. Its with those that subscribe to the infantile premise that Star Trek is about “moving forward” so that means beyond Nemesis. And “going backward” is a negative connotation for a series that takes place in the middle of shown canon.

They can move the story of Star Trek forward easily in any time period. And even if all they do is produce a good, interesting and entertaining series, then that should be a laudable accomplishment.

Personally, I dont care whatsoever about post nemesis. My picks for era would have been 1) Captain April 2) Captain Pike 3) Post TUC/Enterprise B So, I guess STD is around option 2. But even if they had chosen to do a series in the year 2900 I’d still judge it on its merits and not bemoan it for silly reasons.

@TUP,

“My picks for era would have been 1) Captain April 2) Captain Pike 3) Post TUC/Enterprise B ”

None of that sound interesting to me in any form or shape.

@Ahmed – you must have a lousy imagination. But “year 2950” sound interesting? The interest is not the title of the era, its the content. You’re smart enough to know that.

I get the feeling that that despite the show’s title, that there’s going to be precious little ‘discovering’ happening. I hope I’m wrong…but one thing’s for sure, I know for sure that I’m going to miss the varied, individualistic story episodes which the classic TOS show had, where you didn’t know *what* kind of adventure you were going to get from episode to episode.

That’s not to say that the current popular trend for an ‘ongoing’ storyline throughout the show won’t work out well in this instance…it just means that I’ll be expecting any ‘single’ kind of ‘main’ storyline to be really. really entertaining from start to finish…whether it’s a plotline about a ‘secretive’ Human vs Romulan war, or whether it’s about the mating habits of the Mugato.

Maybe the name “Discovery” is meant to be ironic – ie. they take the latest and greatest ship designed for deep space exploration and re-purpose it to fight a war. And the real discovery aspects of the show is not new worlds or new civilizations, but inner discovery. Or the discovery of an internal threat to the Federation.

Boldly going backward to seek out all the stuff we’ve already seen before in the other 2 prequels.
I shan’t be paying a penny to watch this TOS fanboy nostalgic crap.
Once again someone with big ideas is ignoring their viewership as they are under the false impression that they somehow have something better and more relevant, when in fact it’s worse and likely an insult.

Would be happy to get more DS9 war-arc type stuff, and describing BoT as something akin to a ‘random pointless battle’ does a grave disservice to a terrific episode. And since they didn’t know from Roms before this ep, there was indeed a new civ.

And Xeon’s notion that going backward means retreading everything is faulty as well. One of the main reasons to revisit dramatically is to cover the territory in new ways or with an approach that couldn’t have been implemented previously (but not putting our little ENTERPRISE series in with that since that was fail/Fail/FAIL with concept and execution.)

Now if you want to piss&moan about CBS access to show, I’m a little more onboard with you. But it is
weird to feel like I’m the one who is the ‘give it a chance’ voice, though.

The \'Great Bird\' never dies

If this series is suppose to be some analogy of how we view Islamic Fundamentalism I’ll pass. That Original series episode was partly based on the navigation officers prejudice of Vulcan’s and the fact that they are distant cousins of the Romulan’s. I’m tired of being told I have to accept all Muslim’s as peaceful, when 10 million of them want to see us dead. So, if this is going to be some Liberal/Progressive take on modern day intolerance you can’t count this 40 year Star trek fan OUT!

Its a relevant topic. I’d agree if it was done like how Orci did STID. But its certainly a topic worth exploring.

I hope they don’t forget the lovable tholians!

This show is basically Enterprise Mk2. I think people are right to be concerned. Every time a new bit of info comes out there is a collective sigh of worry as to the direction discovery seems to be heading in. Aside from being the 3rd successive prequel, there also seems to be an overwhelming focus on TOS, which let’s face it, isn’t of great interest to the masses inside or outside of the fandom, particularly those born in the 80’s and beyond. It seems that CBS hasn’t learned from it’s mistakes with Enterprise, and obviously since this project was announced STB has pretty much flopped once marketing and advertising costs are thrown in. This in it’s self is a warning sign to Discovery, but is pretty much too late now to replace Discovery with something more futuristic and in line with previously successful TV Trek. As each little bit of news works it’s way out I find that I’m getting more and more disappointed, with everything from the format of the show, that ugly star ship design, and the constant overwhelming need to “do things differently”. Last time someone tried that we ended up with “Faith Of The Heart”, angry Vulcans and Sam from Quantum Leap. Now they are doing it all again and expecting different results! Many of us voiced our concerns that the NX01 looked way to advanced for that time period and we were ignored. Now here we are again with a god-awful door wedge of a… Read more »

Best news so far; Balance of Terror was one of the best Trek episodes ever. Captain vs Captain. Thought provoking – Spock fighting for the Enterprise to attack, McCoy struggling with the cost. Can Kirk win the battle? Will he stop or provoke an even larger war? Should he cross the neutral zone? Also a nice anti-racism message thrown in. Above all, fun and entertaining watching these two starships go at it (and last more than 2 minutes, unlike basically everything after Star Trek VI). I do hope he doesn’t mean having the Romulans since the source material has the Romulans in hiding (unless they are doing Diane Carey’s Prime Directive secret war type thing in which case – AWESOME – easily one of the best Trek’s ever!!). That being said, outside of some clandestine affair, why not go with the Klingons pre-TOS (Dantoo V or whatever). There is a reason why Trek fans were excited about Axanar; one of which was the chance to finally see a Connie take on a D-7 (which STILL after 50 years is only played out in the minds of Trek fans).

And what of the rest of us who have no interest in TOS?

You’ll always have TNG and Voyager…? Maybe you’ll luck out and like Enterprise they will ignore everything exciting and entertaining about the entire concept and make it another dreadful TNG season complete with bland aliens, bland sets, bland music to the point the crew runs off to the suddenly invented holodeck.

@holodeck,

Holodeck were introduced in TAS but don’t let your hate for TNG stopping you.

Well, they didn’t seem to live on the holodeck in TAS.

@kmart,

Yeah, well, they introduced the holodeck in the 3rd episode of their very short second season. So it make no sense to compare its singular appearance to TNG with its 178 episodes.

Yes though in TAS the holodeck is a side show to a Romulan ambush and a totally inhuman computer/alien life form.. not THE episode. That’s what happens when you create an exciting conflict filled galaxy where you can’t just rely on technobabble to move you forward.

Cmd.Bremmon,

Re:a totally inhuman computer/alien life form

I’m not sure what computer/alien life form you are talking about? In THE PRACTICAL JOKER, the ship’s computer programming, which the episode TOMORROW IS YESTERDAY established is sophisticated enough to support a sexy personality, has errors introduced into it by the sub atomic particles absorbed from the energy field they passed through. This causes its AI programming to experience a nervous breakdown which causes it to manifest a practical joker personality.

This is the problem. They’ve put one of you lot in charge of the show.

What an odd thing to write. Should the studio be making a specific Trek show for each individual fan?

If you arent a Star Trek fan, but just a TNG fan, then I guess you wont watch. Oh well.

I share the concerns of others, in that making the thing a serial will obliterate casual viewers, and this heavy focus on TOS is out of the interest area of most people not born in the 60’s & 70’s.
This is going to suffer exactly the same fate as Enterprise due to the inherent impossibility of cannonical continuation. Even worse that this guy seems to want to go in different directions, so we’ll likely end up with something which doesn’t fit the established feel of that time period. We know exactly what that time period looks like as 2009 already established it at several points in the 10 years before Kirk got the Enterprise. I think people will be far less willing to write it off as some kind of alternate timeline again.

And yes, it is a disappointment with every little bit of news filtering through as I for one want to see the federation going forward, not yet another prequel about it’s formation and early days. It holds no interest to me whatsoever. I get bored with TOS now just as much as I did as a kid in the 80s.

It seems this is only going to be of interest to “fanboys” who always choose Kirk-era cosplay at conventions, alas it’s not for me.

They arent re-making TOS. Will you please get over this anti-TOS obsession. You’re seeing James Kirk everywhere like the boogieman.

And yes, serialization will kill casual viewers. Just like it’s done for every quality series since The Sopranos. So many chicken littles here.

It just simply isn’t appealing to people who grew up with TNG and the likes. Enterprise failed, the latest movie in the franchise has flopped in spite of good reviews, when will you lot learn? Kirk, Spock and the gange just arn’t interesting. Even with a $180 million budget.
Get out of your little bubble.

I cant agree that TOS is of interest only to people born in the 60’s and 70’s, hell the Kelvin films alone has grossed over 1.1 billion dollars to date and their obviously based on TOS. All those ticket buyers weren’t born before 1980.

And I’m not sure why you think this is a ‘”TOS show”. Fuller has said they want to make their own “re-imagining” unique to this story. And there have been plenty of serialized shows that have been very successful (even DS9 dabbled in this style of story telling).

The latest prequel film has been a flop, how does that factor in to your TOS being of interest to all?

@Carboy,

Don’t tell him that ‘Beyond’ is a flop, he won’t believe anything in the news unless the CEO of Paramount himself comes out and say it!

Its underperforming against its budget, its not a flop by the traditional definition. And I didn’t say TOS is of interest to all. I said your assertion that only people born in the 1960’s and 70’s are into the show is obviously not true .
Your best bet is to watch your favorite shows on BR/DVD because your out of luck with the new Trek product being put out.it seems.

Edit: I meant the assertion that the OP stated but I assume you agree with.

‘underperforming against its budget’ sounds like 1984-speak to me when a gov’t realizes it isn’t gaining enough territory to justify the price of bullets. Hey, I liked BEYOND on first viewing (haven’t been able to say that about a trek movie since ST-TFF), but Lin wouldn’t have made this movie for 120 mil, and it sure wouldn’t have looked this good with somebody else doing it, especially for less.

this is the first of the Abrams that even felt like TOS to me, so I don’t think the idea that TOS is the draw OR the limiting factor is the case. Like most modern movies, it seems to be about marketing the crap out of …. well, usually crap, and suckering people to see something because they are expected to go. to some degree that has been happening since the first Burton BATMAN, though I suppose an argument can be made for TMP and SUPERMAN paving the way, though those pics were actually good in parts, but it has only been since 89 that I’ve felt bad for going to things I didn’t feel strongly about seeing (and contributes greatly to my deliberately missing most blockbusters this whole century thus far.)

@Cap\’n,

I don’t like the idea of another prequel but I’m going to watch the premiere and make up my mind afterward.

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