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Axanar, Studios Settle Star Trek Copyright Infringement Lawsuit

Alec Peters, creator of Star Trek fan film Axanar

With the copyright infringement trial just 11 days away, Star Trek fan film Axanar producer Alec Peters settled with plaintiffs CBS and Paramount Pictures. The terms of the settlement, announced today, require that Peters admit “overreaching” and allow for a scaled-back production of Axanar as two 15-minute films that conform to all of the studios’ fan film guidelines announced last June.

Editor’s note:
It’s been over a year since a lawsuit was brought against the never made Star Trek fan film
Axanar (including the previously released Prelude to Axanar) and its creators, namely producer Alec Peters. The suit, which was brought about after an unprecedented $1.4 million was raised from fan donations and Axanar store purchases (and subsequently spent, much of it allegedly not on the film itself), has changed the landscape of Star Trek fan films. The lawsuit prompted the creation of specific and restrictive fan film guidelines by CBS and Paramount, causing many fan film makers to pivot (removing direct references to copyrighted Star Trek works) or end production altogether.

Today, both sides settled out of court.

Travel back through our archives of this saga here, and read about the state of the suit throughout it’s year-long history here, here, and here.

For the full story, head to axamonitor.com, an independent wiki dedicated to following the events of the Axanar lawsuit, which has kept extremely detailed tabs on every aspect of the suit. The following article is cross-posted at AxaMonitor.

Settlement Terms, No Cash?

In a joint statement by both sides, Peters admitted overreaching in producing Prelude to Axanar and Axanar:

Paramount Pictures Corporation, CBS Studios Inc., Axanar Productions, Inc. and Alec Peters are pleased to announce that the litigation regarding Axanar’s film Prelude to Axanar and its proposed film Axanar has been resolved. Axanar and Mr. Peters acknowledge that both films were not approved by Paramount or CBS, and that both works crossed boundaries acceptable to CBS and Paramount relating to copyright law.

Interestingly, the settlement terms appear to be virtually the same as those offered by CBS and Paramount in March 2016. The terms require Peters to publicly acknowledge he and his company, Axanar Productions, crossed copyright boundaries they shouldn’t have, and they allow Axnanar to keep Prelude available on YouTube, commercial-free. It can also be exhibited at fan conventions, film festivals and non-commercial events. It cannot ever be shown at official Star Trek conventions.

Like most settlements in civil cases, many terms may never become public. While neither side’s official statement said anything about a monetary settlement, Ars Technica reported payments were not part of the accord:

A spokesperson from Axanar told Ars Technica in an e-mail “we’re not paying anything,” with respect to the settlement.

However, Axanar’s Mike Bawden denied that came from an official spokesman:

I have no idea where that statement came from; the official spokespeople for Axanar Productions didn’t provide that information and won’t confirm or deny it now. Sorry. We just can’t talk about it.

It was not clear what was to happen to the Axanar project in the wake of the settlement. Though the terms appear to allow some kind of production to move forward, it won’t be anywhere near the multi-million dollar spectacle Peters had promised the donors who fronted him $1.4 million.

According to court documents, that $1.4 million is gone, spent by Peters on personal expenses and an incomplete build-out of a commercial studio that was to have housed the production and made available to rent to other productions. The monthly expenses for the largely unused facility ranged between $12,000 and $15,000.

Scaled-Back Production Allowed, but Many Cast, Crew Can’t Participate

Many of the previously billed cast and crew of Axanar will not be allowed to participate in the production going forward, according to the settlement terms. Pictured here: Kate Vernon, J.G. Hertzler, Gary Graham, Christian Gossett, Alec Peters, Richard Hatch

Many of the previously billed cast and crew of Axanar will not be allowed to participate in the production going forward, according to the settlement terms. Pictured here: Kate Vernon, J.G. Hertzler, Gary Graham, Christian Gossett, Alec Peters, Richard Hatch

Sources connected to CBS told AxaMonitor that Peters is allowed under the settlement to make two 15-minute films that must adhere to the fan film guidelines announced by CBS in June 2016.

In its official statement, Axanar stated:

Axanar Productions was created by lifelong Star Trek fans to celebrate their love for Star Trek. Alec Peters and the Axanar team look forward to continuing to share the Axanar story and are happy to work within the guidelines for fan films for future projects.

Under the terms of the fan film guidelines, Axanar will not be able to have participants who have previously worked for CBS or Paramount. That would seem to preclude director Robert Meyer Burnett and most of the professional actors, some of which Peters had literally banked on to attract money from Star Trek fans.

The settlement, however, did allow Axanar to use the following actors: Richard Hatch, Kate Vernon, J.G. Hertzler and Gary Graham, “but no other actors who have appeared in professional Star Trek productions.” None of the production team is allowed to be paid, also.

Axanar’s never-before-seen crowdfunding success and its ongoing commercial operations concerned CBS and Paramount, and the settlement prohibits Peters from seeking public crowdfunding for Axanar. Private donations remain allowed, however.

That appeared to make available up to $100,000 in crowdfunding to produce Axanar as a single two-part 30-minute episode. What that may look like will take some time for Peters to figure out, his statement said:

For the next sixty days, Axanar Productions will be working through some final legal requirements requiring immediate attention. In addition, there are several pre-production issues that need to be re-visited before we can begin principal photography on our project.

Remaining Obstacles

Should Peters elect to move ahead with even a trimmed-down version of Axanar, may obstacles remained in his path. Among them:

  • A threatened trademark lawsuit by former Axanar chief technologist Terry McIntosh over Axanar’s continued use of the name Ares Digital for its perk fulfillment platform.
  • Pending complaints made to both the federal Internal Revenue Service and California’s tax board about whether Axanar properly paid taxes.
  • A possible class action lawsuit brought by disaffected crowdfunding donors.
  • Possible bankruptcy proceedings if Axanar fails to win other legal actions. This would be the second time Peters has declared bankruptcy for one of his companies. Propworx was the first, in which Peters left MGM holding the bag for nearly a quarter-million dollars.
  • Possible thorough examination of Axanar’s finances due to these other legal actions, unlike the constrained “independent” review Peters had promised.

Judicial observer Janet Gershen-Siegel of the G&T Show noted other challenges Peters will face on the road to making Axanar:

If he ‘keeps’ the studio, that’s not exactly a ‘big win for Axanar’, seeing as that white elephant bleeds serious coin in monthly rent and no one is leasing it. Why not? Because (a) the electricals are apparently not up to code and (b) there’s a ton of competition in the area.

Gershen-Siegel noted that Peters now “has to, you know, deliver with”:

  • Less money (and the crowdfunding campaigns were already on diminishing returns before suit was even filed).
  • No professionals, including possibly director Robert Meyer Burnett, and special effects wizard Tobias Richter.
  • Donors who have already waited a long time and might not be interested in throwing good money after bad
  • His actions and meltdowns all online for all to see.

Legal Precedent

Though the settlement prevents the Axanar case from going to trial, it may yet have established a legal precedent affecting future fan works.

Federal Judge R. Gary Klausner‘s decision finding Axanar was not entitled to use fair use as a defense for its likely copyright infringement featured an analysis of the four points judges weigh in determining fair use.

His decision may be the first clear analysis of fan works’ eligibility to claim fair use. Just a week after Klausner’s decision, another case cited the finding in arguing that Axanar creative consultant David Gerrold and others infringed the copyright of the Dr. Seuss estate in producing a book called, “Oh the Places You’ll Boldly Go.”

For continual updates on the settlement, see this article in its entirety posted at AxaMonitor.

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Gutted and ready for the skillet.

Good luck.

Nothing but a full-length ad for AxaMonitor. Nicely played, Carlos. Do you really think Ms. Locanu’s attempt to incite people to “report” Axanar Productions to the State Of California and the IRS really has any legs? And as far as Ares Digital, it was work-for-hire. Not to mention work-for-hire that he admittedly never completed. He should be more concerned with his kidney stone or if word should get out about what may have been his potentially faulty memory on the stand than trying to sue.

A work for hire requires a contractual relationship that specifies that rights to the work product will belong to the contractor. It also requires payment. McIntosh was only ever a volunteer at Axanar.

I thought a couple folks on trekbbs (see, it IS good for something after all) had already Peters to departments of CA for action? If he isn’t investigated for fraud, I guess I’ll have to console myself that bigger perps than him have also slipped off government hooks, but I sure hope it happens.

You know, you bring up an interesting point… @kmart There was an MMORPG that was in production that was for the Stargate franchise. There was a lot of hinkey things going on with that who thing and it ended up getting shut down. I dont remember the specifics… I followed it for a long while but when my hopes were dashed that I could ever play a game in that universe, I slowly lost interest in that whole ordeal. What I do remember from that who thing is that the CEO of the companies producing that game was a shady fellow whom I believe faced a multitude of lawsuits with fraud as the backdrop. With it being brought to light that Peters pretty much used all 1.5 Million on personal expenses and defunct build out and retrofitting of their “studio”, I cant imagine that he, personally, will get out of this unscathed. Plus there is the looming reality that there is also tax fraud going on as well. I doubt there will be any sort of “Axanar” film produced. Ever. My only hope out of all of this is that the numerous fans who donated their own capital to it’s production get some sort of justice for the money they donated on faith. I get the idea that they gave of their own accord, but its no different that being swindled by a silver tongued door to door salesman (thank goodness I dont have the money to spend on that… Read more »

Honestly I think the creepy PR campaign waged as seen on this site (strangely anti-fan, anti-TOS, how could any fan want to see the battle of Axanar, etc) officially or unofficially is part of why Paramount/CBS decided to settle…

Par/CBS wouldn’t be influenced by anything here, fer chrissake. Hell, they might have looked at trekbbs (at least that is a volume of people, not this scattered few), but if they were influenced by it in any way, they’d’ve pressed on rather than settled. Bremmon, can’t tell why you see things the way you do, unless you’re just part of the spin-crowd.

CBS/Paramount would be incompetent to not do market research on websites like Trekmovie.com . They did come to the right conclusions time and time again that they need to recapture the TOS crowd (evidence – ST 2009 reboot). What I do not understand is why no follow up with a market team (Enterprise – refuse test audience wouldn’t have told them not to have peace with the Klingons and transporters first episode; Star Trek Into Darkness refuse to believe a test audience wouldn’t have told them Kahn wasn’t evil enough, sucks that the Enterprise only lasts two seconds in combat, transporting across the galaxy makes starships obsolete, etc)…….. so who knows???

You are wildly overestimating (a) the degree to which your views are representative of the fan community and (b) the degree to which the fan community is representative of the larger audience.

@Cmd.Bremmon

I have a theory…

I think that the new series may, in some way, touch on this battle at some point in it’s series. I think that may be, at least in a very small part, one of a multitude of reasons for the lawsuit. Obviously not the primary reason.

I would find that hard to believe because the lawsuit was brought long before Fuller was hired to derive a series concept.

…And scene.

The fall out is that it will be years before we, as a community, will be as enthusiastic about the STAR TREK franchise as we were back in the early 2000s, in terms of fan films, fan fiction and so on. This is on top of the lack of enthusiasm for the actual production now, which has been hampered by both a lack of interest from the studios and the bickering, as to what constitutes as “real ‘Trek”, among fans. Still, the show must go on, and we fans, as well as the franchise, will survive. STAR TREK as a concept is too valuable, in both marketing and concept, to be discarded so readily.

So, here’s hoping to a bright future, as we go through the dark present…

That was a ridiculous comment. The vast majority of the Star Trek fan community didn’t give two squats about Axanar.

^^This. I never even heard of Axanar until this ridiculous lawsuit. I did end up watching the Prelude video a year ago and I thought it was well done but for all the nutty tirade over a fan film 10% of all Trek fans will even bother watching for free its really much ado about nothing.

Most people want the official productions for a reason even if not always happy with them.

Speaking only for yourself. I am just as excited for discovery as I was for ds9 or voyager.. probably moreso.

There are countless thousands Star Trek fanfics on the internet. Daily new ones are written. CBS and Paramount don’t seem to have a problem with them at all.

Good riddance.

Negative. I was really looking forward to Axanar. This sucks.

There are not thousands of fan films.
The few worth watching are meticulous in details and look with high production values and feature professional actors. It was becoming too much like a professional product all unlicensed use of the Star Trek brand.

Okay, if you naysayers say so. The fact of the matter is that the new guidelines will not give fan productions the latitude they once had…

Am I the only one thinking that “the powers that be” let Peters off the hook? It seems they could have gone on and completely ruined this guy if they chose. I’m seeing this as strictly a PR move and saving face after this past summers Beyond offering and the continued delay of DSC. CBS/Paramount certainly needs some goodwill to fans as of late. It may be a stretch, but any goodwill is good from them at this point in time.

Other folks are pissed about CBS for different matters, but for me, it is for letting AP off the hook here. He needed to be publicly bled and then left to rot for this history of fan exploitation. It’s like Trump of Trekdom, absolutely revolting.

Yes it does seem the time let him off the hook. And it shows they were never out to destroy anyone or put an end to fan films. They simply wanted to reign in the overreach from men like peters who sought to profit from their IP.

Good will would be to allow fans to make films without limitations as long as there is no Profit.

That should have been the only limitation & crackdown.

They did that for fifty years and Alec Peters forced them to create rules.

Absolutely. CBS is generously allowing this project to possibly continue under strict guidelines. Which is nice of them to do. I have like….ZERO sympathy for the Axanar folks, and would not have shed a tear had CBS buried them.

Star Trek belongs to the fans, CBS may legally Own it but it didn’t want Star Trek, it didn’t pay for it, it just ended up with it & only does anything with it because they know it could make money- thats all they care about- Money & the only thing the Fan Films didn’t care about – If they own Star Trek then they could have shut down Axanar which missused donated funds & let the others Continue without Guidelines which basically Ban anything other than one off short films with no budget or professional quality.

Re: Star Trek belongs to the fans

That assertion is demonstrably false. Anyone who thinks things like that needs a mental health evaluation.

Oh gawd. Not you again.

Man! Look at all those white guys in the original cast.

Maybe he’s the Donald Trump of Star Trek. If so, his online actions and melt-down, won’t matter to his core supporters who want to Make Trek Great Again. ;-)

It must be set in a non-diverse ‘alternate universe’…

But wasn’t Tony Todd in the original video? And he had a pretty important role in it. Speaking of which he was rumored to be in Discovery as well but I guess that didn’t happen sadly.

He dropped out, as did Christian Gossett director of Prelude to Azanar. T

So what if they are all white?

Alternate fact – this is a photonegative. And they’re really women.

Well, at least Peters got a little richer.

I suspect that was his intent all along. He’s a con-man who managed to get a small but vocal contingent of Star Trek fans to support his cause of enriching himself.

I’d be really surprised if there isn’t a bankruptcy filing in Peters future.

Correct me if I’m wrong but it appears that the CBS/Paramount guidelines are specifically for films? I never saw any mention of other kinds of media — short stories, novels, comic books. I get that profit of any kind is a big no-no. But are there any guidelines for these other kinds of presentations? I’ve got this idea for a graphic novel (wink, wink)…

Correct. The guidelines apply only to film and video projects. That includes animated stories.

Hey, thanks for the mention! We shall see how/if the film is delivered, and when.

What a surprise. No not really. This is what I said would happen all along. And in the process, he’s taken the whole fan film community down with him. What an a$$.

The only good thing about this whole article is Kate Vernons camel toe. Don’t lie, you know you looked

Well I did now.

So Carlos, how do you know the details of not only the current settlement, but also the one in April (not March) as they were not public? Unless you can show proof, are you are just creating facts that don’t exist. Are you going to claim your usual unnamed sources? Could it be you are using your usual journalistic, sorry bloggeristic, lack of integrity to continue to defame Alec Peters in hopes people will forget that in the last 12 months you have gotten EVERY prediction, assumption, crystal ball premonition completely wrong and now you want to continue hide that fact. He are some real facts….pay attention, you may learn something… 1. Alec Peters made a Star Trek Fan film. Admitting he used IP, just like Star Trek New Voyages (which you have been a part of) and Star Trek New Continues is hardly news. It may be part of the settlement….not a church confessional. 2. If you say the details of the settlement may never be public….how do you claim to know them? 3. You claim you don’t know what will happen with the Axanar production. Perhaps you should read this http://fanfilmfactor.com/2017/01/20/more-details-about-the-settlement-in-the-axanar-lawsuit/#comment-4840 It’s the only blog site which actually states the facts without your agenda to slant the news against Alec. 4. Without having any actual experience in a well-made fan film, you have no idea what Alec Peters can do with the resources he has and the resources he can acquire. Thus you are making an uneducated assumption… Read more »

Does anybody know ‘Charles’s ID? This looks familiar in an illness inducing way …

Nice, insults because doesn’t have a comeback to the truth about his little emperor….Kmart shoppers…moron on isle six…

Charles,
Your emperor, not mine. My posts with content are elsewhere in the thread, addressed to folks who raise valid points and at least don’t SEEM to be pushing an agenda.

kmart – How are Charles’ comments NOT valid ?

Laven (and this is the last time I’m answering these posts from the Axawhatsis folk until we at least get confirmation Laven and Charles aren’t the same IP address), read the damn thread (as if you haven’t already) and see for yourself. And take a good look at trekbbs’ thread on this.

Same goes for anybody else who wants to come to a conclusion that represents an INFORMED opinion, instead of some kneejerk reaction about corporate bullies picking on a little guy who only tried to do something good — an argument that might work for Preston Tucker, but Peters, you’re no TUCKER (feel free to make up a limerick along these lines if you’d like, folks.)

@kmart
Oh dear. This is embarrassing… for you.

SEE ATTACHED IMAGE

Yup, that’s my ID Card. As you can see I use my REAL NAME because I’m not a coward, and I also take responsibility for the things I say, good or bad.

So, I’ll wait for an apology for your WILDLY INACCURATE GUESS, and if you don’t apologise, I’ll completely understand – because of the embarrassment you must feel.

PS : Big talk with all that “IP confirmation” – lets see your results for the test anyway. You know so you can prove yourself wrong too

Not embarrassing at all, just means this was a tag-team op, once too many questions were asked that Charles didn’t want to answer, you jumped into the fray to distract away. I do wonder at your level of commitment to AXANAR and Peters though. Then again, lemmings can only perform according to their nature I guess.

I’ve disclosed my info on this board before, am not about to do so again. But I am a published writer with a quarter century of credits, so if you use some of that brainpower to do a sliver of research you can figure things out, or else ask somebody.

Nice quick response too … lying in wait?

Dude, I certainly HOPE you’re just trolling me now, because otherwise you may have a self-delusion problem.

>> Nice quick response too … lying in wait?
I’m a developer. I sit in front of a computer all day. Alerts show up in my browser. I respond and get back to work.
Is that beyond your ability to comprehend ? That you assume I’m “lying in wait” ? How silly of you.

>> just means this was a tag-team op, once too many questions were asked that Charles didn’t want to answer, you jumped into the fray to distract away.

See the “self-delusion” comment above.
I certainly hope OTHER people are able to start seeing how badly the self-delusion runs in some people.
Have you considered that I might actually be telling the truth ? Nah, cant be – because I’m not agreeing with you. *sigh*

>> but I am a published writer with a quarter century of credits
Right, so you’re a professional writer. How about Reading ?
Because I asked you a simple question, and you did not reply to that, yet you put effort into these responses.

I’ll be fair and say maybe you missed that question. Here it is again :

>> kmart – How are Charles’ comments NOT valid ?

As a PROFESSIONAL WRITER you should be aware that with comments like yours, the burden of proof is on you to show that his comments are not valid with, you know Evidence and Facts etc.

Waiting patiently…

Laven, I’ve already directed folks to trekbbs’ thread for a full discussion, so why would I reiterate what has already been discussed there at length, except for your benefit and as a further waste of my time?

As for delusions … well, AXANAR hopefuls certainly own that particular field.

Laven,…..Kmart is another drone of the hater crowd that Carlos created on Facebook to decimate his agenda. Just like Carlos who refuses to reply to my questions, Kmart will redirect anything but rebutte my rebuttle.

For the last 13 months, and 1000’s hours, they have claimed in unison that Alec Peters was going to jail, and he would lose everything and be in the streets, and that Axanar would never be made in any form. They were completely wrong on every count. Now they draw on strings to try to further their vendetta and claim Alec did not win, and that it has not ended. Too bad CBS, the courts, and every government agency in the US don’t feel that way. It’s ended for them. End of Story.

Carlos and haters refuse to believe it and will continue to pass lies and disinformation to try to stay reverent, hoping people won’t see how foolish they really are.

Charles, your absolutely right on all counts. This site is full of angry people who seem to get off on feeling superior whether it’s warranted, or not. Even when they don’t get their way, the make up more crap to be angry about. They don’t know Alec Peters, they don’t have a stake in this matter. They are just a small community of like-minded wanna be’s. This settlement is a compromise. People who enjoyed Prelude to Axanar and wanted and Axanar feature will get some of what they wanted. The corporations will get some of what they wanted. Mr. Peters advanced the cause of Star Trek fan films and fandom in general. Well done to the Axanar team, I can’t wait to see what you come up with! LLAP to Axanar fans and everyone who frequents this site!

Mr. Peters did NOT advance anything… he himself alone with his manners and his actions brought Fan Films DOWN… he not only actively and continously did everything he could to piss off anyone that wouldn’t give him money blindly, no he went so far to salt and burn the earth behind him.

That’s funny Selorkiith…the only people Alec pissed off is a small group of talentless haters controlled by Carlos. Otherwise we have 14,000 supports who are just fine.

Those 14,000 CURRENT (?) supporters … are they as blank-looking as all those ‘signed’ documents Trump had at his press conference?

I suppose everybody who ever complained about propworx auctions aren’t pissed off at him either. I mean, why would a Ferengi inspire anything but love and devotion?

Really? He has pissed off everyone who loved the fan films being produced that he destroyed by profiting on his proposed fan film.
He used money given to him Star Trek fans to build a studio for future revenue

Hi SelorKith.
>> to salt and burn the earth behind him.
I’m not sure if you’re aware, and maybe I’m wrong, but my understanding of that phrase is to cover the fact that in salted earth you CANNOT grow crops.
Alec did not cause “the end of all fan films”. The result was Restrictions, not Complete Denial for fan productions.
Yet another example of incorrectly using words to make things look worse than they are, driven by emotion and not intellect.
That’s sad because as Star Trek fans that’s something we should’ve learned about by now.

Your dillisional
The guidelines stop fans from creating serialised movie/TV length fan films & Limt them to 2 15 minute stories with no budgets or experiances crews or actors

The Farragut/Continues/Phase II era is over

It’s not worth trying to produce anything within those guidelines which were creared in rection to him

Re: “They are just a small community of like-minded wanna be’s” / “This site is full of angry people who seem to get off on feeling superior.” The juxtaposition there is amusing. And what do you think Axanar supporters are exactly? How precisely did he “advance the cause of Trek fan films”? His film resulted in massive new restrictions. It could be argued, I suppose, that it settled the debate of what’s OK and what’s not, but I can’t help but feel that fan-films were going along just fine, and were allowed much more freedom, before Axanar’s overreach. Yes, this settlement is a compromise for both, and good for both sides. But it certainly makes the plaintiff look way better than the defendant, as it takes away any of the ammunition that Axanar supporters had for hating CBS/Paramount: -“CBS/Para just want to shut down all fan films” -“CBS/Para want to own Axanar” -“CBS/Para want to steal Axanar’s premise for a new series.” -“CBS/Para are worried it will be better than their new show/movies” -“CBS/Para just want money.” -“CBS/Para hate Peters personally and are out to destroy him.” And plenty other ridiculous accusations that I cannot even recall, but that I saw in the wake of the lawsuit over a year ago. The settlement actually makes CBS/Paramount look GOOD– they’re allowing the fan-film to go forward! They’re not going after any other films, they’re not bleeding him dry or seeking huge sums of cash to penalize him for his wrongdoing. It… Read more »

Those two claims don’t contrast each other, so no juxtaposition. No point in arguing how we feel about Mr. Peters actions, we will always disagree. C/P don’t look any better now than before. They look like they were tired of paying lawyers in a venture that could have conceivably turned out poorly for them. Axanar didn’t engage in any sort of overreach as there can be no overreach without known limits. Also, C/P knew what was going on for a long time before stomping on Axanar without even the courtesy of a simple Cease and Desist, the norm in these situations. They thought they could scare the little guy with big time lawyers and get the donor money with little opposition. They don’t look good at all! And, if there are some donors who are angry about this situation, it is they who live in ‘willful ignorance of reality’ as they should know that crowd-funding projects are always a risk. Especially when using someone else’s property! It is only the irrational and the angry who look petty here.

I disagree Alec, er, Charles. John Van Citters was pretty explicit in the studios wanting to stop the fan film “arms race”. Peters’ insufferable arrogance and hubris not only led to him being the one to push it so farm but he he was ultimately the one who doubled down and fought for as long as he could, making a public display in the process with his detestable attitude. But I believe that if not him, sooner or later it would have been someone else they’d gone after. Perhaps there would not have been such a spectacle if the target had been someone else, but I think the increasing size and cost of fan films was such that the studios had to step in and stop it sooner or later. Peters’ narcissism and wide eyed sense of entitlement just did them a favour and gave them an easy target.

That’s funny Carlos, I mean El Chup….nowhere in the lawsuit did I see Alec being suited for arrogance, attitude, and other personality traits you seem to thing Alec possesses didn’t seem to be on the lawsuit? hummm.

I would think arrogance and entitlement would better fit Carlos who spent 13 months making wrong predictions about Axanar and Alec, and still thinks he
relevant….

Um, Charlie, my comment had bugger all to do with Pedraza, and if you read my other comments on this very page you’ll see I am not here to massive his ego any more than I am Peters’.

Now, would you care to address what I actually said?

FWIW, while not a legal reason for the proceedings, Peters’ attitude most certainly DID contribute to getting him sued as he knew before the suit that he never had permission and there was even a public statement from CBS that they didn’t sanction the project. He carried on anyway because he thought he was smarter than he actually was.

What does it matter to you what I think of Peters’ behaviour anyway?

>> What does it matter to you what I think of Peters’ behaviour anyway?
Well…since you’re banging on about it, in a clearly personally-offended way, defaming a person who’s just as human as the rest of us (i.e. Flawed) – it matters to all of us who have to read your comments.
If you want fewer come backs, either stop commenting in this way, or change your style of commenting to be less vitriolic, and guess what ? People might take your comments more seriously.

Laven,

There is no defamation if it is true.

I wasn’t referring to you, Charles.

Yes there is a contrast you’re clearly just too dim to see. You accuse the other side of having a superiority complex while having one of your own.

Interesting…All I did was call out Carlos on every bullshit he’s still is dishing out. If that’s superiority…then power to me.

“Axanar didn’t engage in any sort of overreach as there can be no overreach without known limits.”

Oh come on, really? I like to write, and my imagination can take me in many directions. But the fact is, no matter the genre, no matter the intended audience, there are “unwritten rules” as well as those carved in stone. So, I discount your above statement as just “running off with your mouth” (or keyboard in this case) and not actually giving too much thought to what you just said here. There are always rules. The world we live in isn’t anarchy.

>> The world we live in isn’t anarchy.
Not so sure about that in the near future.
Trump just got elected.
Its only a matter of time before “non-recognition of authority” becomes more prevalent, I reckon…

Also, the world is full of anarchy. Seriously.
If you think otherwise, perhaps you’re not fully aware of what happens around the world ? Blinkers ? Know the concept ?

No Overreach? They payed themselves saleries from fan donations & built a Studio to use for other paying productions to Profit from- how did they not over-reach. The rules were simple- don’t profit & Paramount/CBS won’t do anything.

No Trekboi, those weren’t rules either. If you are thinking that they are “unwritten rules” and that means something, wrong on that count, too.

Trekboi

Re: Profit

You keep throwing that word around but I’ve seen nothing in this article or the settlement that says that Peters profiting was established in this resolution. It’s going to take a whole other course of civil legal action to establish that.

And IF the rule you state IS clearly the linchpin of their lawsuit, as you assert, wouldn’t CBS & Paramount have required Peters to make THAT declaration, instead of the one they agreed to?

The difference between supporters and haters? Mainly, that we have 14,000 supporters to 14 or so haters who can’t deal with the fact none of their predictions came true.

Alec Peters is doing everything he promised he would do, what he will be allowed to do. Crowdfund rules state he could have just walked away. He didn’t because unlike haters Alec has integrity

We won. That’s reality. No fantasy about Alec going to jail, or losing everything, or the movie never getting made. The haters sit shocked and are even blaming the studios for not bowing to blogger Carlos…lol

I would say blind zealots followers are the one’s who have spend the last 13 months giving hundreds of hours and following a false prophet (Carlos) who hasn’t gotten one prediction right.

God. I would personally give Peters a thousand bucks to just stay off the damned internet. I can’t be the only one.

God. I would personally give Peters a thousand bucks to just stay off the damned internet. I can’t be the only one.

Wonder how much he would raise on Kickstarter? Might be more profitable than Axanar.

>> I would personally give Peters a thousand bucks to just stay off the damned internet.
Excellent !
So go on then, why don’t you get together about 100 friends who feel the same and send Alec $10 000 :)
Heck, if you do that, I’ll personally send Axanar a mail telling them to milk this for all its worth and all they have to do is stop posting as Alec Peters…. :)
Now, in retrospect – that was rather a silly thing to say, wasn’t it ? :)

arg – missed a zero :)
It was 100 000 – go on, make fun of my math/typing skills

Charles, ye gods, 14,000 of you still drinking the Kool-Aid? I don’t think so. There has to be a decent percentage of the sucker/truebelievers who finally realized, ‘fool me once, shame on you/fool me twice, shame on me’ … wrongdoing when not performed from an ethical basis (like rightfully disobeying orders that violate morality) deserves punishment, and scorn. I would say humiliation too, but AP probably isn’t capable of allowing himself to feel that emotion without the whole house of fizzbin cards crumbling in on his egocentric psyche.

The very idea you can use ‘integrity’ and ‘Alec’ in the same sentence should spell out things very clearly about you to one and all here. Between Propworx and this debacle, and how he has handled these issues, integrity is about the wrongest of words you could possibly find to apply to Peters.

‘All-consuming monomania’ might be a potential winner, though. How about a trekmovie poll on this? (but with strict rules that might chase folks away — make it ‘one person, one vote.’)

Alec Peters has integrity???

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Well, Dingo’s are know for their frenzied, frantic, and, feverish laughs..

3rd time now with the user name sniping.

Charles:

1) Only people with the mentality of a 12-year-old use the term “haters.” Grow up.

2) “We won” is the kind of argument a teenager uses. Grow up.

3) 14,000 supporters is extremely small compared to the size of Star Trek fandom. Most people don’t even know Axanar exists, so get over yourself. And grow up.

Dingo, only a dog gets named that…..actually only 12 year olds spend 13 months and hundreds of hours attacking a project the have nothing to do with, don’t have creative abilities to even create a pamphlet for.

On that we can agree…14,000 is a small number, but $1.4 wasn’t and 3+ million in views isn’t small either. But 14 or so haters is a very small number ;)

Charles, you are bang on, on every point! They compare Peters to Trump when it is their hate filled fabrications that are the Trump-like accusations here.

Agreed My Two Cents…funny how Carlos refuses to come here and defend my rebuttes (I’ve asked), and allows his minions to do it for him. Guess that’s why Carlos doesn’t allow comments on his own blog site? HAHA

That’s the 2nd time this thread I’ve seen you attack a poster for his/her username, Charles. What, your ammo running low?

And your notions about ‘hater numbers’ and being able to dismiss folks for not having creative abilities (when you know nothing about them and can therefore make no such claim) doesn’t do your case any good either.

It does kind of make me wonder if you’re being paid to do this, or serve willingly (in John Ford’s THE FINAL REFLECTION, those who serve willingly in the Klingon Empire are considered slaves.)

I don’t think I’ve seen this Laven post here before, but as soon as Charles seems to check out for a day or two, he turns up with a vengeance.
If Charles represents the ‘fool me once’ option, then Laven must be the ‘fool me twice’ factor.

Just scan past and ignore, folks, this is clearly just ‘false data’ again.

So…how’re you doing today, @kmart ? Have you remembered to take your meds ?
Because I realised yesterday, that I was finding your behaviour really self-delusional. Then I realised that that’s how “conspiracy theory freaks” operate, and that no matter how many FACTS you’re presented with, if you’re that type of person, you’ll ALWAYS find a way to manipulate it in your own head so that it works for you.
And of course, we all know you can’t fight that, so my sincere apologies to everyone ELSE on the board for my part in adding some useless fuel to a conspiracy-theorist’s fire.

Wishing all the best to ALL Star Trek fan projects ! :)

The fact you responded to this post rather than my more recent 4:34 post, coupled with your weird fascination with ‘diagnosing’ me, tells me there is less that meets the eye than I had hoped with you.

(apologies to the others for prolonging this useless conversation – I must admit I don’t want to let @kmart think he actually has good deductive or inductive skills. Moderators please do mail me to stop, if I’m going beyond the bounds of the board)

Bwahahah !! I would LOVE to hear your reasoning for that conclusion and the details. Cos what _actually_ happened in the real world, as opposed to your deluded one is this :
1. I came to the page
2. I scrolled to the bottom
3. I replied to the kmart comment there
Sure, lambaste me for “replying to a comment which was not the latest”.

But if you think there’s ANYTHING more to it than that, you’re just confirming my suspicions….
:)

During this whole Axanar thing, there’ve been a lot of really similar posts (language, tone and content) on threads on various sites, including this one, from different names. Some have sounded uncannily like Peters and his (sigh) known online aliases (Loken etc).

So it’s not necessarily a crazy conspiracy theory to wonder whether someone here is either Peters or involved with Axanar (Meyers-Burnett made some pretty wacky arguments too).

That said, I’ve been accused a few times of being a plant from an “irrelevant” anti-Axanar facebook cabal.

Other than reading Axanar stories in the news, I’ve got no stake in this (and am not in any facebook group) I’m just a fan with an opinion. I’m guessing that you are, too.

(mine is that this whole affair potentially threatened Trek’s reputation and future, runs counter to what It stands for – and is more about Peters and boosting his and his associates’ careers than it is about the fans, telling great stories or honouring Trek).

Peters has said that he did a Trek movie instead of an original idea because he knew fans wouldn’t give him money for an original idea.

If Peters has a proven history of going online under different names to make people thing he is unbiased, than it’s not a conspiracy theory. It’s a theory based on experience and evidence. Paranoid, maybe, but not a conspiracy theory.

And if he’s done that, it also proves what a delusional child he is. Be an adult and move on. Stop being so thin-skinned. Marty McFly proved years ago how that just gets you into trouble.

“Have you remembered to take your meds ?”

Weren’t you bemoaning personal insults yesterday our little Southern Hemisphere hero? ;)

Speculating that Peters might sockpuppet (is that a verb?) isn’t delusional if he’s done it before (and he reportedly has).

Personally, I think Charles sounds like Peters (he may not *be* Peters, but his lame personal insults, faulty logic and constant references to Axanar’s many awards and some tiny yet remarkably-organized Facebook cabal sure are Peters-like). Laven? Not sure, although the insults are certainly there.

If Charles etc. isnot Peters, then someone else is posting this crap under a bunch of different names.

14,000 supporters is extremely small compared to the size of Star Trek fandom. Most people don’t even know Axanar exists, so get over yourself. And grow up.

For real. Star Trek Beyond had hundreds of millions of theater tickets sold. At it’s peak, TNG had 10-15 Million viewers per episode. Voyager, on a brand new network, had 4-5M in its peak, ENT had 3M in it’s final season.

So even if we assume that there are ONLY 3M fans, 14K represents less than half a percent. If it’s more realistically closer to 500,000,000 (or higher) we’re talking less than .003%.

Point is, if CBS/P makes a new movie or show, people will watch based on the quality of the production, and Axanar supports who “boycott” or go around trashing it, will make no difference.

Charles, you are sound more like Peters with every post. Peters has “won” nothing from what we know at this stage. The court documents show very clearly that he thought he could build a commercial Enterprise out of this, as well as cream money off the top. There’s not way this settlement will allow him to continue to take money for salaries, expenses and run merchandising efforts. He can no longer ship the product to the likes of Amazon Prime and Netflix as he tried to do. He cannot deliver a rival product to the official CBS/P output in the way of a full length movie as he is now constrained by the fan film guidelines. He is, by his own admission, out of money. He has broken his contract already with his donors as the product that will be delivered is not what they donated for. So not all donors will continue to support him. Even those that want to are not certain to provide more money. He cannot turn to crowdfunding for more, and will have to beg private investors for more cash – which even then will be difficult given his behaviuour before and during this case. We also don’t yet know what these “60 day legal steps” are, which may involve things like repayment of sums of money. The only “victory” that I think comes out of this is if Peters gets to keep his studio and goes on to use it for non-Trek profit making… Read more »

How much money did Pedraza’s “followers” give him? What promises did he make them?

By contrast, how many Axanar supporters were gave money and were promised a 2 hour movie, and will now only get a film cut by about an hour and a half, and will probably have to donate EVEN MORE to get just that?

I’m not sure I ever made a bold prediction about how this would end, and i’ll admit i’m surprised Peters is being allowed to make the film in any form. In the rearview it makes sense though, and makes CBS/P look damned good and forgiving, but I would not have predicted that outcome.

But if you think Axanar supporters are getting everything they wanted and everything they paid for, you’re mental. That’s just spin-room tactics. And hey, if they work? And all Axanar supporters cheer? Good for you.

For now, this looks like a 100% victory for Paramount and CBS who got everything they actually wanted. Asking for a shutdown of production, millions in damages, etc, those are all legal tactics to allow breathing room for a settlement that still satisfies what they ACTUALLY want.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Peters decided at some point that it would be better/easier to goad C/P into a lawsuit than to actually have to spend money to make anything.

Exactly- Now when he doesn’t deliver he can blame CBS/Paramount & create the Myth of his great unmade fan film. Would have just been Klingon War Trek.

He promised an Epic 90 minute profesional film- he is now joyfully limited to one or two 15 minute films which cannot be professionally made so he can do on the Cheap, blame the guidelines & pocket whats left of the Money raised.

Conscience of the Lord Garth

Charles, be honest, aren’t you really Alec Peters? Come on, admit it.

I was told here once that I was Alec Peters. You people are funny.

And I was just accused of being Carlos Pedraza! Weird world.

We are all Carlos apparently.

My wife is as well.

My Two Cents,

Re:…told here once that I was Alec Peters

Me too. Maybe we SHOULD together on TO TELL THE TRUTH with Torchwood?

@Conscience of the Lord Garth
Hi there.
Actually I’M Alec Peters
What would you like to ask me ?

*sigh*
I’m guessing that’s not what you were asking for ?
Because you probably just want to act like a “big man” “calling Peter out” in a way that makes it SEEM as if you’re brave….but you’re not.
Have fun :)

Laven,
There’s nothing Peters would say on the record that I’d be likely to accept or belief as truthful, so asking him anything (unless on the stand, under oath and while his hand is on a REAL TOS truth verifier as seen in WOLF IN THE FOLD) would be pointless. I think that’s probably the case for most folks who don’t drink Axanar Kool-Aid.
Read the whole thread, there’s evidence for who Charles is elsewhere – one of the hopefully few remaining Axanar true believers, which makes him a loud mouthed lemming at best.

But more importantly … what’s YOUR stake in weighing in on this in this fashion?

Hi kmart.

>> in this fashion?
Its a bit vague/unspecific. If you can tell me what you mean by “in this fashion”, I’ll try to answer the question.

but broadly, I have no stake.
I always try to make people who are absolute in their thinking consider that there may be other possibilities.

You don’t even have to agree with me – just try to stop being so absolute, and in your case, potentially self-deluded.

That’s general Life Skills, btw. You’re welcome :)

Laven, I usually research a topic before weighing in on it, so I have an informed opinion. One reason for this is because if I care enough to investigate, I’ll go balls-deep into a topic, and want to KNOW. Not to just speculate. That extends to my journalistic endeavors as well, which is why I tend to go off on folks who keep repeating legends that have no basis in truth. A trek example would be klingon blood being a goofy color because of ratings concerns, when it was strictly a plot point, something I got from the horses’ mouths when writing about TUC. It’s not anything earth-shattering, but it does point up how some ignorant throwaway remark from a guy supposedly in the know (in this case Rick Berman) triggered decades of people re-spouting falsehoods. So anyway … being absolutely right is where I am at — for most things — and so on the occasion when I’m proved wrong, it is major and I both remember and acknowledge it … but it doesn’t happen very often so far as filmmaking stuff goes. So there’s no chance I will agree with you, and I still rather doubt that is your reason for weighing in so many times in so short a period in this thread, and at a point right when Charles dropped out of it. I will acknowledge that in this instance it could be some kind of balance in nature thing, like water finding its own level,… Read more »

Hmm… a kind of balanced reply. I’m honestly, glad to see that you’re capable of that.
To be fair to you, if you “ranted” and “railed” less, and in less insulting ways, myself and others would take you more seriously.

>> So anyway … being absolutely right is where I am at — for most things
Use of absolute – that’s arrogance. Even Erwin Shroedringer said that there’s no way that we can always be right (I’m loosely paraphrasing).
Classical physics was “absolutely right”….
….until we found out about Quantum Physics.
ANY educated person who thinks they’re ABSOLUTELY right…. is lying to themselves. As a scientist, one HAS to maintain the _possibility_ that one may be wrong.

>> doubt that is your reason for weighing in so many times in so short a period in this thread, and at a point right when Charles dropped out of it.

This one is simple :
Correlation is NOT Causation.

We can ALL make “connections” between things – it does NOT mean its true.

By and large, I agree with this point you make … but there is also (to at least get this tangentially back towards Trek) Spock’s line in COURT MARTIAL about not needing to watch a hammer fall on a planet with gravity (are there planets WITHOUT it?) to know that is what it is going to do, and then use that to explain how he can definitely claim a certain action is wholly outside Kirk’s nature — because he KNOWS this to be so. The lawyer then pins him with an ‘in your opinion’ that he can’t wriggle away from, but it doesn’t make Spock’s declaration any less true. The ‘tag team’ approach to posting (getting somebody else to take up an online debate when you’re compromised or stuck for an answer) is something I don’t remember often seeing online before getting into a trekbbs thread years back about Marc Cushman (who is tangentially involved with AXANAR, and the reverse is also true, with Peters having had a hand in his ridiculous kickstarter for the season3 book — the one where Cushman claimed he wanted the book out for xmas, but his publisher did not, even though he IS the damn publisher), so forgive me if I jump to a conclusion about your multiple postings just as Charles dropped out for a couple days — it absolutely fit the pattern, and I think it’d be foolish for me to NOT mention the connection and possibility. As to being taken more… Read more »
Conscience of Lord Garth

@Laven Pillay
Hi there yourself.
If you WERE Alec Peters, and let’s face it, you’re not, I would ask you why you where the $1.4 MILLION dollars went.
Sorry to disappoint, but I am female, so being a “big man” would indeed be an act.
Not trying to be “brave”, just curious as the intensity and writing style of “Charles” sure did look like Alec Peters previous writings, so I asked a simple question.
But you had to respond and insult me because I simply asked a reasonable question. You probably just want to act like you are were in some position to judge me in a way that SEEMS as if you’re somehow superior to me…but you’re not.
Have fun :)

@Conscience of Lord Garth
>> because I simply asked a reasonable question
If you mean that, then maybe fair enough – I responded badly.

>> Charles, be honest, aren’t you really Alec Peters? Come on, admit it.
But if we’re both talking about this question – then that’s not “reasonable. That’s silly, childish and typical of people who can’t actually believe that OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT CONNECTED can end up thinking in similar ways.

In my experience, its pretty much close-minded people, who don’t look at things from other perspectives who feel that.

I meet people with “common perspectives” all the time, I can proudly say that I’ve never assumed they must be “working together” the way detractors – and its only them as far as i can see, not “neutral people” – who have this ridiculous attitude.

I’ve even been told “oh, is so-and-so, your dad or something ?”
WTH is up with that “logic” ?
Its the same story with this “are you actually Alec Peters” stuuf ?
WTH ?

>> gender
:)
Fair enough, but also, the screenname is non-specific, and I’m fairly sure there’s mostly males POSTING on this thread (because we’re admittedly idiots :))
So, yes, apologies for not being gender-neutral in my response, but…
…its REALLY difficult to do not piss someone off these days when it comes to gender :)

(oops, no Edit function)
“…the way detractors”
was meant to be
“…the way detractors seem to”

And you just have to ask these self righteous hater drones….like “Conscience of Lord Garth”, why If CBS, the courts, all government agencies, and 99.99% of 14,000 donors are not asking where the money went, why do a couple of dozen who of most never donated or even heard of Axanar before Carlos, continue to ask…

“why If CBS, the courts, all government agencies, and 99.99% of 14,000 donors are not asking where the money went, why do a couple of dozen who of most never donated or even heard of Axanar before Carlos, continue to ask?”

Because it’s a good question.

Because it is THE Question. If Axanar didn’t profit this wouldn’t have happened

Thanks for ruining the Fan Film scene for everyone, Peters. You complete and utter scumbag.

Thank you Al Jalaikakik for proving that haters create fantasies based on their agenda, no matter the outcome of actual court proceedings….

Charles, you do realise that not all “haters” (christ, I hate that immature term)are in league, right?

I hate to break it to you, but more those who are critics of Peters number a great deal more than you have suggested above, and not all have the same take on it as the likes of Pedraza and Hinman, not all associate with those people and not all spend as remotely as much time on this as they do.

It’s time that you accept reality and accept that this affair has put off a more fans that a small handful of obsessives.

Yeah, I have never discussed Axanar with anyone outside of this site, with the lone exception being my 70yr old father, a big Trek fan. But I find the lawsuit fascinating on a variety of levels.

Yea, El Chup, I’ve heard it all before….we are a lot bigger than you say! Interestingly, your small number, and the fact you all think alike can be found quite easily on Facebook in the Carlos created, “CBS/Paramount vs. Axanar” group.

Not only do you see the hate and immaturity, you see that though members number at about 1200 (still a small amount compared to 14,000) the only ones that actually speak out number at about two dozen.

The evidence is there for anyone to see.

The Lawsuit was Mainstream Media News. The general public & casual fans heard about it.

Only mainstream news in the smallest corners of the mainstream. The GP and casual fans have no idea what this is. Believe me, I have spoken to many casual Trek fans, even some serious fans, and this is even beyond THEIR periphery.

You’re either Peters or dillusional- what fantasies have been created? What agenda? wanting more Quality Fan Films like Continues or New Voyages? The facts are he single-handedly brought CBS/Paramount to create the Guidelines to Stop him & others following his example which now limits all fan films to the point of not continuing. If he had not misused funds to Pay himself & build an independent studio for future profit Paramount/CBS wouldn’t have interfered.

Two 15 minute videos of Araxnar; sure. That means we can make two more 15 minute videos titled, “The Battle of Araxnar”; and then two more videos call “The Aftermath of Araxnar”. Who’s with me?

I am! Or, maybe, two 15 minute videos specifically about each of the Captains!

That would be terrific. We could see the war from different ships and crews, one each time, and each segment could carry the name of one ship, in a particular single adventure, so that there is no violation of the rules. However good that sounds, I guess Axanar won’t take chances after all this. The settlement probably was very clear on what they could do. They will do two 15-minute short films, and get it over with. Maybe they will produce more Trek after that, but unrelated to Axanar, just to be sure they are not violating any of the guidelines. And, concerning the controversy around the role of Axanar as hero/villain of fan films, I think we ALL should get a life. It was what it was — a controversy. Some people on one side of the fence, others on the other side, and that will always be the case when fan films about copyrighted works are produced. I personally feel Alec Peters crossed the line, but how can one really blame him if CBS/Paramount refused to draw a line for literally years! Each new production was a step forward, and someone, sometime, would do that. It ended up being Axanar. And, let’s face it, the one thing that really changed in the landscape is that CBS decided to bring Trek back to TV. The guidelines were clearly designed so that the fan films couldn’t compete, in any way, with their product. And I find it fair enough —… Read more »

The guidelines stop any related episodes. so they can’t do a bunch of Axanar stories that are at all related.

I’ll wait for Peters’ inevitable profit making documentary on the litigation.

Coming 2018 – “For The Love Of Alec”.

I prefer the fall of Haters group…and the fails of Carlos P.

Everytime there’s criticism of Peters, these accusations, of being controlled by an organized group of haters, start. I’m part of no group, but Peters pisses me off (and could apparently benefit from the cure finally given to Garth).

Folks wanting a reckoning — a legitimate ‘accounting’ if you will — aren’t going to fall by the wayside because you start trotting out an as-usual Hater argument, “Charles.”

Folks like you Kmart have no game, just an agenda. 13 months and thousand of hours of wrong predictions in the end had nothing to do with reality as far as the courts and CBS was concerned. Continuing to push the same garbage after the settlement proved you all wrong…about everything, just make you all look like fools.

As indicated elsewhere, no agenda, just a passion for nailing the bad guys. And I very much doubt this is the last court issue for Peters.

What if some people have no agenda? I accept that the likes of Pedraza do. But what of other fans like us who have no vested interest in the fall of Alec Peters and just say things how we see them? I, for one, have no connection to the fan film community, nor the prop community. I have never had dealings with Peters. I don’t have any mutual acquaintances, nor am I friends with or have worked with anyone that has had any dealings with Alex. I am not and have never been a donor to any fan film, let alone Axanar. I have criticised the likes of Hinman and other obsessives who spend far too much time pouring over every little detail looking for hints of Peters’ fall. I only know what I have read from both sides throughout and from the court documents. I am as neutral as they come, so what is my “agenda”? Can you tell me? As someone said above, you’re like Trump. Too busy rebutting any slight on the character of you and/or Peters to actually listen to what people say, instead pursuing the same kind of nonsense narrative that Trump does about enemy agendas and campaigns of hate. It’s sad that Trek fandom has attracted those sort of characters as Trek teaches us to be the exact opposite. If Peters, like Trump, had any brains he’d sit down and start thinking about why so many consider him an unsavoury character, irrespective of the… Read more »

Well El Chup, for one who claims not to have an agenda or vendetta, you seem to spend an awful lot of time attacking Peters on this site. Yet with all the strings you guys pull at, all you have to back yourselves up is that there are “many” who feel the same way. Well, as I stated above, it is easily proven that there are only a dozen or so of you that hate on Axanar and Alec Peters, and have not only never proven any allegations, every prediction in the last 13 months have been wrong. Not realizing that, and continuing to pull at strings, can be campared to a form of brain damage.

>> I’ll wait for Peters’ inevitable profit making documentary on the litigation.
And when it comes out will you :
1. Buy it – giving Peters money,
or
2. Pirate it – behaving like scum “just like Peters”
?
That’s a real question, waiting in anticipation for the reply :)

Laven, Doubt there’d be much market for it, except for AxaFolk who want their own position validated. A real documentary as opposed to a spin piece, by an outside party, now that would be interesting, but it wouldn’t come from Peters. Maybe Mark Altman, if he could stay neutral throughout about RMB?

Neither

Can’t do it- the 2 15 minute videos have to be singular in story- no connection to the others, not a series

But what I don’t understand why to they have to only be two videos? Doesnt the new rules say you can make as many as you want they are just limited to 15 minutes? I’m thinking of all the actual Star Trek fan series like New Voyages and Star Trek Continues which are obviously episodic instead of 1 or 2 films. Does it mean no one can just make continuing stories? And if they can what stops them from just making 3 or 4?

And I don’t know if they will even bother at this point but I think the idea My Two Cents has is great every video has the perspective from one Captain or character. That could work and be their own personal mission log detailing how they dealt with the war in the same type of documentary style the original video did.

I think the verbiage of the fan film guidelines would allow people to create multiple 15 minute films told within the same contextual backdrop, but from the perspective of a different character set. Think of it like The Animatrix which detailed the backstory of the Matrix universe through unrelated characters and events. You had one two part self-contained story, then seven other stand alone segments that weren’t “additional seasons, episodes, parts, sequels or remakes.”

Yeah cause that’s not obviously trying to create a series, Cause CBS/Paramount won’t see though that in a second.

Read the Guidelines instead of just making pointless comments.

All I know is, I was a lot more excited about the ship design (and overall production design) for ‘Axanar’ than I was for ‘Discovery’. [And yes, I know the first Discovery trailer was a ‘teaser’, not yet finalized — but I’m simply not thrilled with that ship design.] And not to go all ‘Discovery’ here, but isn’t it odd that they’re shooting this month, and we haven’t seen any set pictures or designs?
It seems now that both Axanar and Discovery are taking place in approximately the same time frame… I wonder how much of an effect Axanar has had on ‘Discovery’s’ gestation as a series?

Canadian, eh? Same here, hoser! I don’t think that Axanar has much influence on what CBS is doing with Discovery. If it did, people would have much more confidence in the official production!

Sounds Like Peters got crushed.
I would call that a satisfying result.

Sounds like you are in a fantasy world. How exactly is Alec crushed? Oh, he’s going to jail!…ah, no he’s not…..oh, he lost everything!….ah, no he didn’t, ah, his movie will never be made!….ah, yes…yes it will…

Wow you think if you say he wasn’t crushed then it will be true- wow.
He has been discredited, his misuse of money paying himself wages & building an independant studio for profit have been exposed & he cannot deliver the film as promised, not the length or quality. and his chances of people trusting him to give him money for future products is unlikely- aside from a few people like you.

Re: “I was a lot more excited about the ship design (and overall production design) for ‘Axanar’ than I was for ‘Discovery’.”

Well then, that’s clearly enough for them to allow Axanar to breach copyright law right there!

“isn’t it odd that they’re shooting this month, and we haven’t seen any set pictures or designs?”

No. It’s completely normal. Productions don’t tend to release images of the set or designs ahead of filming. On occasion there will be some targeted mystery images, but that’s not the norm. If filming hasn’t begun, i’m not sure why you expect there to be any material released.

Re: “I wonder how much of an effect Axanar has had on ‘Discovery’s’ gestation as a series?”

Probably none.

yet, you give Star Trek Continues, and Star Trek New voyages a free pass on doing everything Axanar did…..except Alec made a better movie…

No, Alec didn’t.

How can you say Axanar made a Peter movie? He made a 20 minute talkimng heads short short, which was mostly shooting and explosions, and even asserted in the litigation that there was no Axanar on which to sue. In contrast New Voyages and Continues has hours of content, and while I am not a huge fan of fan films in general, I am prepared to reocogise that those shows had a great deal more social commentary and general Trek themes in them than Axanar.

I think the only way you could assert that Axanar was better was if there was a finished film to compare to the other series.

Prelude had better effects, better writing….no one looked like Elvis (lol). But yes what one thinks of Prelude is a matter of opinion. One could also compare how much people donated after seeing it, or how many awards its won, or how many hits on youtube. With a little research, you’d see Prelude won on all counts. but yes, which films are better is only a matter of opinion ;)

“Better” is highly subjective.

I don’t know a great deal about STC or STNV, but did their producers take salaries? Did they use their fundraising on personal expenses? Did the donations fund a for-profit studio? Did they promote themselves as REAL Trek, and better than the current movies? Did they promote their shows as REAL films/shows? Did they sell branded merchandise? Did CBS/P ever warn them, and did they flagrantly ignore those warnings?

If they did, you’re right, and they should be taken to task as well.

Torchwood,

Re: … the donations fund a for-profit studio

Well, STNV/Phase II’s donations of labor and money did end up in an apparent for profit [at least, I’ve found no claims towards non-profit in its publicity for either its 2015 unsanctioned operation or 2016 licensed operation] STAR TREK movie studio/museum set tours/convention operation.

All Star Trek, all for fans, they will never profit from the cost of making the sets & episodes from the tours- the money was for future episodes not to go into their pockets

But they didn’t & he knows that.

You are dillusional.
They delivered many episodes, didn’t steal money & didn’t create a studio to profit making non trek productions.
Alec hasn’t made any film. just a tired mocuumentry extended preview

Trekboi,

Re: …You are dillusional [ sic ].

You may be just a bit delusional. I recall those sets in Ticonderoga were used in other productions besides JC’s and repurposing funds raised, to maintain the sets for film production purposes, to museum tours and convention shillings is definitely use not codified in their fundraising.

Discovery takes place about 10 years after Axanar I believe (or vice versa).

I don’t see how you can compare the two when we’ve seen pretty much nothing of Discovery.

El Chup,

Re:…don’t see how you can compare the two when we’ve seen pretty much nothing of Discovery

As we’ve seen nothing on Axanar, either, I think you’ve answered your own question.

We’ve seen Prelude to Axanar”, so we’ve effectively seen an extended trailer.

El Chup,

Re: …an extended trailer

You mean as opposed to DISCOVERY’s abridged ship trailer?

You compare apples and oranges and pretend they’re from the same tree. Interesting. Prelude was billed as a preview of Axanar, what to expect, the kind of presentation, story, acting, effects, etc. That’s why it’s called “Prelude to Axanar.”

The DSC teaser was a slapped-together CGI test shot rushed out to time with SDCC. Stop being an a re-targ.

Torchwood,

Re: …apples and oranges

You are confused if you think I don’t know the difference twixt ‘extended’ and ‘abridged’.

Anyone else think discovery is gonna be Axanar in disguise, like a gritty look at a war with Klingons when they were the most ruthless of enemies?

Is it really so hard to imagine that Bryan Fuller decided to set his series Pre-TOS, and feature Klingons, all on his own? And make no mistake, if anything, Axanar is Trek in disguise, not the other way around.

Exactly.

I have to say that this seems, overall, a best-case scenario outcome for Peters and Axanar, notwithstanding the typically adversarial tinge to Mr. Pedroza’s reporting about same. Quite a number of people were extremely excited about AXANAR at the outset, and nowhere in this report is there the remotest look at the pro-Axanar perspective about the outcome of the lawsuit and its implications going forward. Though, we do get a thorough list of negatives—-“obstacles” working against the production. I can understand Mr. Pedroza’s adversarial position, but I find myself torn between wanting Peters to learn a lesson and wanting the donors to get what they’ve invested so much hope and interest in, not to mention their money. Even if we can regard Peters’ model of leveraging crowdfunded donations into greater working capital for use in non-profit films—-i.e. Ares studios rental proceeds, Axanar coffee, etc.—-as “creative financing”, he was too cute by half in paying himself $37k as a producer fee. It’s pretty hard not to see that as profit.

And it bears mentioning that if DSC doesn’t satisfy all of the needs and fill the void left by the death of The Golden Age of Trek Fan Films — a demise which CBS/Paramount have deliberately brought about (regardless of their legal rights to do so) — CBS may find themselves wishing that they’d left well enough alone, and simply curtailed the overweening financial approach of Axanar, rather than effectively killed beloved shows like Star Trek Continues (which will now end after 3 or 4 more episodes), New Voyages (which has already ended), and others. In other words, there’s more pressure on DSC now to effectively replace the shows that it has effectively displaced. And if DSC doesn’t deliver, the reaction will be, THIS is what they killed STC and NV for? For THIS?!?

I agree this is a best-case scenario for Peters, but the idea that CBS/Paramount will regret this is simply ludicrous. Only the most die-hard of die-hard fans care about fan films. DSC will never satisfy everyone, just as ENT didn’t before it, likewise VOY, DS9 and TNG.

As for “The Golden Age of Trek Fan Films”– i’ve never even heard of such a thing. You overinflate the impact and importance of Trek fan films.

Re: if DSC doesn’t deliver, the reaction will be, THIS is what they killed STC and NV for? For THIS?!?

You make me laugh. That might be your reaction, but not “the reaction” of the entire fandom. Not to mention that you’re make a big leap with this statement that the “killing” of STC and NV had anything to do with DSC. It may have had some tangential justifcation, but it had more to do with Axanar.

I still believe, had Axanar never existed, the clamp-down on fan-films never would have occurred, or at least would have happened differently. It was Peter’s attempt at flouting generally accepted “rules” of fan-films that made Paramount and CBS decide to lay ground rules.

Cygnus X-1 and Torchwood, both of your statements here have valid points. And a civil discussion, to boot! Well done.

Torchwood
It may have had some tangential justifcation, but it had more to do with Axanar. … I still believe, had Axanar never existed, the clamp-down on fan-films never would have occurred, or at least would have happened differently. It was Peter’s attempt at flouting generally accepted “rules” of fan-films that made Paramount and CBS decide to lay ground rules.

It was both.

Axanar gave CBS the perfect justification to bring the hammer down on fan films, a move that CBS had no PR-friendly motive to make prior to Peters handing it to them on a silver platter. Now, CBS gets to regulate fan films, and they get to tacitly blame Peters for it. And they even get nice people like you and others vociferously advocating in favor of the multi-billion-dollar corporation having been taken advantage of by the villainous Peters and his one million dollar non-profit movie fund.

Axanar gave CBS the perfect justification to bring the hammer down on fan films Except they don’t legally need justification. At any time they can make the decision to clamp down on fan films. And even if Peters’ made a better public statement, why not go after Prelude at its release? And even if they used this opportunity because it looked better for them, it means that a) the desire was there before Axanar, and would have gone forward eventually even if Axanar had not and b) Axanar’s overreach is in the extreme, and probably should have been shut down. Do you think Disney would allow a fan to raise upwards of 1.5M, build a professional studio, hire the likes of Jake Lloyd, Jimmy Smits, and Ahmed best, and make a fan film that they claimed would look professional, and give fans the kind of Star Wars they REALLY wanted, not the dreck that JJ Abrams is peddling!…? nice people like you and others vociferously advocating in favor of the multi-billion-dollar corporation Well thanks for the compliment. But Non profit? Haven’t we concluded that he profited from this? And you realize this case went to court, was argued back and forth by teams of lawyers in front of a judge, and was settled by said lawyers, right? This is a matter of law. The precedent here protects all creators, not just “multi-billion-dollar corporations.” It protects authors like Dayton Ward, and fan filmmaker’s like Jack Trevino, from having their original work… Read more »

Do you mean the “non-profit movie fund” he profited from?

I love the way you think your the only fan who’s opinion or thoughts count.
The fanfilms were appreciated & watched/screened/shared for & by fans in the 10 years or so they were made.

I’m a supporter of fan productions, but it’s a niche part of the fandom. Most fans aren’t aware of them or simply don’t care.

Brian Drew I’m a supporter of fan productions, but it’s a niche part of the fandom. Most fans aren’t aware of them or simply don’t care. Torchwood As for “The Golden Age of Trek Fan Films”– i’ve never even heard of such a thing. You overinflate the impact and importance of Trek fan films. I’ve seen this argument put forth quite a bit here over the past couple of years. And, if memory serves, “The Golden Age…” phrase has been used in articles at this very site. I can’t speak to the impact and importance of Trek fan films in any concrete way, but I can point out that the reach of Trek fan films has penetrated beyond the “Trek fan” circle. I’ve had more than one friend, whom I wouldn’t even describe as “casual fans”, that have sent me links to Star Trek Continues, advising me to check it out (and thinking, obviously, that I wasn’t already familiar with the series). But, that is merely anecdotal. Here’s some objective evidence to consider: News features about Star Trek Continues and New Voyages have appeared in mainstream, non-fan, non-industry publications. Here’s a CNN article about NV: http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/21/entertainment/star-trek-new-voyages-online-series/ And here’s a Wired feature on STC: https://www.wired.com/video/2014/06/obsessed-meet-the-cast-crew-of-star-trek-continues-with-vic-mignogna/ And here’s another article on STC in the most mainstream of mainstream news publications, USA Today: http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2016/09/02/star-trek-fans-take-series-new-dimensions/85675598/ Maybe for the people who are simply aware of Trek fan films, but don’t feel passionately about them, this whole Axanar case isn’t even on their radar. But, it… Read more »

I would say that the “golden age” of fan films was when George takei and and a few original ‘Trek actors started to appear in the fan films. And, up until Axanar, production values were very close to being professional. Even if you took out the Hollywood vets, special effects and camera work have come a long way, far better than New Voyages first official film. Fyi.

None of that negates the fact that you overinflate their impact.

And yes, they could be in the future. And maybe THAT’S why CBS/P had to take action NOW. To set a precedent BEFORE it becomes a real problem.

As for DSC, anyone dissatisfied with it is a half-wit considering not a frame of film has been shot.

While I have always been more in line with the anti-Axanar sentiment, it is ironic that people like Pedraza and Michael Hinman hold themselves out as neutrals. It’s clearly not the case, and articles like this are composed in such a way as to focus on Peters’ wrongdoing. Their response is “prove that we’ve said anything inaccurate”. But that isn’t the point. It’s not just about facts, it’s also about how you present those facts. Much of the presentation is designed to create a bad impression of Alec Peters and his goons, there can be now doubt about that. Even above with references to “meltdowns” and pure speculation of more doom for Peters, without actually knowing what will happen now.

These people have an axe to grind with Peters and have been obsessed with seeing him fail from day one to the extent that they pour over every little thing day after day, week after week. Can you imagine the hours that must go into Pedraza’s blog? Does he even work? That level of effort and interest from supposed neutrals is unhealthy and goes well beyond an interest in IP litigation, and can only be explained by an underlying motive. But, hell, don’t say that where the anti-Axanar folks are entrenched as they’ll go at you like a pack of rabid wolves! lol

Do they “have an axe to grind,” or are they just biased, with their own opinions, and find it hard to provide true, neutral reporting?

Having an axe to grind sounds like you feel they have personal issues with Peters. Which may be the case, and may be what you’re asserting, but I’ve not been following close enough to know if that’s the case.

Well, Pedreza used to be involved in fan films and both are heavily invested in fandom. I suspect that has probably added to their motivation to see Peters fail.

It’s clear become personal for some of the most ardent anti-Axanar types, and I must admit to being somewhat baffled as to why, but their actions tend to speak to themselves.

I’m rabidly anti-AXANAR (thought the original film was listless and ill-conceived to boot), but I have no connection to fanfilms whatsoever. In fact I haven’t been to a con in a quarter-century, so I’m out of that loop to a strong degree (wasn’t ever ‘in’ to be honest.) I do have a history with zero-budget filmmaking from way back — you pay for your OWN film, you don’t milk suckers for the money — and just on that basis I’m horrified that CBS didn’t wring this guy’s neck and make a real example of his crappy behavior, and can only hope that fraud trials will follow.

To me it is just this simple: you don’t reward bad behavior, and you don’t legitimize it either. Otherwise you’re going to get more of the same, not just from the offender but from onlookers who are figuring, ‘if he can, so will I.’
Maybe nobody here remembers REMO WILLIAMS, but the gist of it was, being the 11th commandment – thou shalt not get away with it. Quit empowering the Rolo Tomasis and instead try to level the playing field, at least here.

>> To me it is just this simple: you don’t reward bad behavior, and you don’t legitimize it either.

Bwaahahahh ! Sorry for the off-topic post, but isn’t that basically how Trump got elected ? ;)

Laven,
Yeah, exactly, and that is maybe even just as troubling as Trump himself (saying a lot with that), the fact that many folks did essentially reward his misbehavior.
You actually picked up on the subtext, on how at some level I equate Peters with Trump, on a micro-level, as both give off the same buffoon vibe. Difference is that Peters is not in a position to go all Greg Stillson and end the world a la THE DEAD ZONE (which is what I see in my mind pretty much every time I see Trump on the tube. Dif is that Stillson would be acting out of a mad sense of destiny whereas Trump might do it because somebody wouldn’t play with him using the toys he wanted to take out.)

Mr.Pedroza’s adversarial aspect comes purely from his connection to Star Trek New Voyages, who had a falling out with Alec Peters when Alec won awards for Prelude as a newcomer. Egos at STNV started the adversarial aspect way before the lawsuit.

Check Carlos’ IMDB….he’s not that involved in fan films…..he’s more known for another kind of films….

Charles, I checked the IMDB. I see the “other films” are of as homosexual nature. What is the relevance of that to this discussion, to the extent you felt the need to point it out?

I was pointing out Carlos IMDB credits as producer on Star Trek New Voyages. What does homosexual movies have to do with the discussion? Are you some kind of homophobic?

Um, Charles, it was you that referred to “another kind of film”, and the only non Trek stuff on there is that. So please don’t play dumb with me as if they weren’t what you were referring to…..and come on, do you really think I am so dim as to just accept you throwing my own question to you back at me as if you imply I am a homophobe for referring to the thing YOU highlighted? I won’t even bother to quote your sentence since it is two posts above and clear for all to see.

The truth isn’t typically neutral. Show me something inaccurate in Pedraza’s coverage. And when has he claimed to be neutral?

Mr.Pedroza’s adversarial aspect comes purely from his connection to Star Trek New Voyages, who had a falling out with Alec Peters when Alec won awards for Prelude as a newcomer. Egos at STNV started the adversarial aspect way before the lawsuit.

Regardless, his stories are accurate.

Regardless of his agenda?….lol

I’m an investigative reporter – my agenda is to tell the truth and expose corruption/etc. All that matters is that the stories are accurate.

Jack, I very much appreciate your weighing in on this with your background; I’m hoping it gives some more credence to Carlos (not that he should need it) for those who are still for some reason trying to give AXANAR and Peters that last erg of benefit-of-doubt.

This is an interesting development. I hope all parties are able to come out of this with lessons learned. I believe in Star Trek’s vision for peace, harmony, progress, and universal exploration, and we need to come together during these tumultuous times rather than engage in internal conflict. Long may this peace reign and long may we be united in pursuit of the highest ideals of mankind.

Congrats Alec, you egomaniacal conman – you squirreled away some cash from Uncle Sam and you singlehandedly ruined fanfilms forever.

Axanar’s existence or not is irrelevant except to the fanboys who relished the war aspect of the series and Peters who wanted to be a mover and shaker…but clearly not an actor lol Nobody, beyond the tiny sub-culture of Trek fanfilm fandom, that takes up another tiny section of within the Trek bubble, gave two shits about it. It’s just too bad there wasn’t some way to make them pay back the money to supporters.

And here then is yet another reason why the Star Wars fan culture is far more vast and expansive than the Trek culture that preceded it. Lucas, in his wisdom, encouraged fan productions because he knew that it would add to the excitement and buzz of what has become an intergenerational franchise.

Trek has been run into the ground by bean counters. Yes, Peters was guilty as sin of copyright violation, but his little 20 minute film was easily as entertaining as STID. That’s an indictment of Paramount, not Peters.

A smart, visionary studio would have made Peters an offer he couldn’t refuse and paid him to Go Away, then taken his idea and perhaps folded it in to Discovery.

But both CBS and Paramount are run by pygmies. Which is why their getting their a$$es kicked by Disney.

The CBS/Paramount fan film guidelines are actually wider then those set out by Lucasfilm.

http://cdnvideo.dolimg.com/cdn_assets/3a519829d95bfb651c3e3a0140d46b8faaa409fc.pdf

actually no, that is a misconception…those are Lucasfilm rules for entering the contest. Check Youtube under Star Wars fan films. there are some long beautiful fan films all of which have never been sued by Lucasfilm or Disney.

Working WITH Peters, legitimizing Axanar, or using his ideas would be encouraging more people to breach copyright. That’s not visionary, that’s stupid.

If people are willing to breach the guidelines after Alec Peters settled the lawsuit, that would be stupid.

Torchwood,

Re:…That’s not visionary, that’s stupid

You mean like licensing unsanctioned sets, built and used for numerous unsanctioned fan films, for “museum” tours built from original blueprints whose removal from Paramount seems as dubious as claims of things Roddenberry’s supposedly stolen?

That’s not visionary, that’s business, and doesn’t set bad precedents, considering the makers of those films respectected the wishes P/CBS throughout production, release/promotion of their series.

If you think thats the same, well, let’s say that you’re the “not visionary” one.

Torchwood,

Re: …“not visionary”…

Oh, I think their unlicensed 2015 tours and convention tours were cut from the same misappropriated actions disrespected cloth. And if things were as respected as you misrepresent why did they claim they had to stop making those films because of CBS legal? And they tangled with CBS legal long before Peters came along, when they tried to use Norman Spinrad’s script just as they had the blueprints.

Yay, AXANAR is finally coming!

Hmmmm. Coincidental, that this was announced, just as Discovery ramps up production efforts to start filming

Not a coincidence at all. The settlement was reached shortly after their fair use defense was denied. Once Peters realized he had no case, it was in his best interest to seek a deal.

Or rather, yes, a complete coincidence. There is no connection between DSC’s production and this settlement.

Also might have something to do with the trial date being less than two weeks away.

sorry, no….CBS was looking at a 2-3 year appeals process even if they won. They simply didn’t want any more bad publicity and pay our more millions in Attorneys fees.So they settled.

Why do you think Alec gets to make his film breaking most of the guidelines, except crowndfunding and time limit, when CBS wanted no film and wanted Alec to pay millions of dollars in fines?

Peters, are you still trying to antagonize the studio? Time for your meds, Garth.

Jack, like I’ve offered many times before, I challenge anyone to call my phone through Facebook instant messenger, and see I’m not Alec.

Funny how no one has taken the offer….lol

Many times, huh Charles? So you’re oftentimes thought of as being somebody else, or at the very least somebody’s else’s stooge?

Oh, just now saw on trekbbs that ‘charles’ is likely to bre Charles Britto, a name I’ve seen previously associated with Axapologists. So I guess that answers my question from 5:17am, and the answer is ‘somebody else’s stooge.’

Based on your information I Googled said person and was presented with a Facebook like to this comment…

“Dear fellow Axanar supporters, I wish you all the best Happy New year! I know we lost many Greats in 2016, and life wasn’t exactly a happy bowl of kittens for many of us this year, but I do have something something to be thankful for in 2016.

This was the year I discovered Axanar and the inspiring creative positive spirit of “the man”, Alec Peters. His tenacity, integrity and never-give-up attitude reminded me that no matter the outlook, there is aways a chance for a win, no matter the odds. Someone I had been, under similar circumstances, until I allowed negativity to set in. Inspired by Alec, I have since left my negativity at the door and have taken my creative bull by the horns and look forward to a great 2017.

I know whatever happens with the suit, Alec will land on top. That’s just the way he’s built. I see 2017 a monumental time for all of us. Thank you all for your support! HAPPY NEW YEAR !”

So if this is the same guy, he’s clearly either an Axanar stooge or seemingly in love with Peters. So he’s pretty much the mirror universe version of Pedraza, Hinman and all those he’s moaning about.

I really hope I have not wasted my time talking to a sycophant.

Yes, El Chup, that is me. I appropriate a creative visionary like Alec Peters. They are far and in between. Though I enjoy fan films as a creative outlet, most merely copy Star Trek, like STNV and STC. Alec created something beyond the usual. Unfortunately, it was too good. Too professional looking. The judge said so himself.

As far as being a sycophant. Perhaps you should take a look at my Facebook Page. Alec is a colleague, as creative in his industry, as I am in mine. Creative professionals support and admire each other. That’s not worship.

I can’t call myself a mirror opposite of Pedraza and Hinman. They have a vendetta and an agenda…solely because STNC and Peters had a falling out. Carlos created a blog site to purely attack Peters negatively. No one can expect neutrality, but when his blog has NEVER said anything positive about Peters. That is a vendetta.

“a creative visionary like Alec Peters”

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. It’s like you’re getting paid by the man.

I’m not wasting my time with you. You’re just like Pedraza, Hinman & Co. You’re just on the other side like Jonanthan Lane (who himself doesn’t seem as willing to blow smoke up Peters’ arse like you are). Suffice it to say you have blown your credibility out of the window. If you’re gonna play that “creative people support each other” BS then you’d also support Pedreza since you admitted above he is also a film-maker (and has seemingly been one longer than Peters). So don’t give me that insincere horsecrap. You’re just a man with petty grudge, just like so many of the others who have invested more than a healthy amount of time in following this…and what’s more you have a vendetta like they do. You admitted it yourself when you said you wanted to see the fall of Pedreza further up this page. You are their mirror, no more, no less. Your attempt to pretend otherwise is thoroughly unconvincing.

El Chup, you attempt to pretend not to be a hater, and dislike Peters on your own accord is amusing.

Instead of respecting someone else’s opinion on why they support someone you don’t even know with laughing, shows how much of a hater you are.

How can you say I have a grudge? One does not have a grudge when one supports a cause. One has a grudge, vendetta, and agenda when one hates something. Not dislike, or not care for, but dislike.

I want to see Carlos reply to my rebuttal, which he refuses, showing his own agenda, and cowardance. Such people should fall.

The fact you pretend to be neutral is laughable and without logic.

Give it up Kmart. You have no game. Just gingerly insults. Maybe you can get your master Carlos to reply to my questions.

It ISN’T a game, Charles. That’s the point, fool.

“Interestingly, the settlement terms appear to be virtually the same as those offered by CBS and Paramount in March 2016.”

Oh, what a surprise…. :)

Actually, I am surprised that after all the crap Peters tried to pull, that CBS didn’t throw the book at him. That said, I think it’s a case of CBS taking the high road, something Peters has seemingly never done his entire career.

I almost think that CBS Paramount came onto this site; realized that 30 something TOS fans coming back to Trek were being put off by the creepy campaign waged against them (how can any fan want to see the battle of Axanar?!?… honestly EVERY TOS Trek fan!). Some of my faith in Trek since the ST:2009 reboot has been restored by this development, just wish they allowed the production to go forward (why not make it a Paramount/CBS production and sell DVDs on the side?).

@Cmd.Bremmon – No. There’s no chance that CBS/Paramount made this decision based on a few fans on a website. Even if they did, they would see that plenty of us do NOT want to see Axanar and do NOT support Peters in any way, shape, or form.

I’m a TOS fan who has zero interest in watching a full-length version of videogame cutscenes–oops, sorry, I mean “Prelude”–filled with B-list actors and bad writing.

Stop overstating the support for Axanar. It isn’t universally wanted, and except for the fans I know online, I don’t know any fan who even knows about the production at all.

SOME fans want Axanar. Those are the people who gave Peters money. Plenty of us have no interest in it whatsoever, and CBS/Paramount would see *us* here as well as the Axanar fans.

It’s not “EVERY TOS Trek fan” either way.

Also, what “creepy campaign” waged against “30 something TOS fans” are you talking about? There has been nothing “creepy” about a legal case proceeding as legal cases do. There has been no campaign against TOS fans. What a nonsensical complaint to make!

PaulB. Yet.

Too many gullible people have fallen for Peters’ Trump like agenda of hate rhetoric. But: –

1) Trek fans are estimated to number 3 millions, of which only a small minority even know about fan films, let alone Axanar

2) Peters own claimed figure of 14k us therefore tiny in the grand scheme of things;

3) This whole affair has arguably cost Axanar fans and donors, not acquired more and the figure of 14k has likely shrunk (if it ever was 14k the first place); and

4) Fans who know about this but do not support Axanar have not been counted and it is quite clear they number more than the handful associated with the likes of Pedraza, as Peters claims, as pretty much every website you go to you will find critics of Axanar on it (save for Peters’ sock, Fan Film Factor, where Jonathan Lane refuses to post any critical posts beyond those that are easy to answer).

So, all told, had this case not happened and gained Axanar publicity for it, it’s like that the project would’ve come and gone with only a limited amount of fans liking the content, just like the other fan films. This idea that Peters was ever going to have the power to rival official output is ludicrous.

Apologies. SOME Trek fans want to see strategic starship combat and explore the history/world of the Federation in a logical format where the NX-01 isn’t the Akiraprize, there isn’t peace with the Klingons pre-TOS, the Klingons can actually be an imperial power as in TOS, starships last longer than two minutes in combat without having a warp core breach (looking at you Enterprise-D and the JJPrize in Star Trek: Into Darkness). Some fans used to sit around with their FASA manuals and discuss the improvements of the K’tinga class battlecrusier over the D-7 and if the Constitution class starship still had a place post-Excelsior. They exist… and Axanar I would say appealed to them.

@Cmd.Bremmon – My FASA manuals are about 5 feet from me right now, on a shelf next to my Starfleet Battles and Star Trek III Starship Combat Simulator manuals. So, I’m well-versed with the love of K’Tinga and D-7s and everything else. My original edition Tech Manual (red paperback cover inside black vinyl hardcover) and every supplemental book and set of deck plans I could ever find are right there with them. I’m a diehard TOS fan–

–and Axanar has no appeal to me. None. I was mildly curious, watched “Prelude” and saw nothing to entice me. I’d rather just sit with my FASA manuals. Honestly, I can’t see how a FASA fan would find this Axanar project interesting. It looked like a crummy videogame cutscene, not like something inspired by FASA.

Axanar appealed to a very small, very limited group of fans. Sorry it didn’t work out as you hoped, but at least you’re getting something out of it! :)

I never learned how to play the FASA stuff as I was a kid and alone as a fan, but damn they did some great stuff even if you didn’t do the role playing. I loved the TOS movie stuff. Like you, I’m looking at an old, beat up FASA book on my shelf right now.

just wish they allowed the production to go forward (why not make it a Paramount/CBS production and sell DVDs on the side?).

no. you don’t reward bad behavior by legitimizing it.

CC, Agreed, to the millionth power!

Humm…could it be that all you heard from a small group of detractors was crap, who had an agenda, and were lying the whole time? No, not possible right?

Funny, 99.99% of his supporters are not surprised Alec didn’t go to jail, or lose everything, or will be able to make Axanar. Hummm….

It is a surprise, considering Carlos refuses to prove it by showing those settlements….or tell us he was able to see sealed agreements.

The surprise is how Carlos would know that. Considering both agreements are sealed by the court. Just one Question Carlos refuses to answer.

Hurrah, at least we will get some Axanar!!!! Wow, did not think the way it was going we would get any of it despite the potential!!! Just wish Paramount had decided to take over the production and do the 2 hour movie; sell some DVDs. As a donor I was happy to see Prelude to Axanar; can’t wait to see what comes out next. Sad thing is that I don’t think 30 minutes will necessarily give us the strategic starship combat TOS fans have been craving; then again TWOK final battle came in around 15 minutes no?

I wouldn’t hold you’re breath. Axanar is bankrupt, deep in debt, and who will continue to contribute to that snake oil salesman?

And as a Star Trek fan myself, I can assure you I have not been “craving” strategic starship combat.

The only thing these guys accomplished was ruining ALL future fan productions. So, we won’t get something 40-50 minutes long like Star Trek Continues, and even worst, serial episodes of anything. I’m sorry for anyone who decided to donate to Axanar, because that money is gone.

“According to court documents, that $1.4 million is gone…”

Sounds like a scam. I am glad, that I didn’t donate. I don’t think that anyone will get their money back, even if they sue Peters.

Good to see TrekMovie’s Axanar bashing is proceeding on schedule.

So disappointing, Prelude was so wonderful, and this had great potential. I hope these 25 minute restrictions apply to Star Trek Continues.

Prelude put me to sleep. More fan schlock with a glossier technological sheen, and a few legitimate actors that only highlighted how poor the rest of the casting was.

Or, let’s just have a 15 minute video about the whiny angst of TrekMovie and it’s little hoard of minons.

We have Star Wars because George Lucas couldn’t get the rights to Flash Gordon. Meanwhile, whatever you think of them, the “Fifty Shades” books began life as “Twilight” fan fiction. Star Trek fan films have a place, but the Axanar team might be better off de-Trekking their screenplay and shooting the whole thing rather than reducing it to two 15 minute films that can only be shown on YouTube. Fans who care to can make all the necessary transpositions when viewing — Dorkanians are supposed to be Klingons, or whatever the hell — and in the deal we all get a new SF property that might have some ideas of its own.

Good idea. Peters can play Captain James P Jerk of the Slimefleet spaceship HMS Extract-a-penny.

Here is an example of a creepy post by “El Chup”. Some generic name comes on and personally insults Peters.. stranger still is the down playing of TOS fans that would want Axanar. Personal attacks on Peter’s why not stick to arguing that you think Axanar was a scam? I mean I can at least sort of see that reasoning. I personally donated to Axanar and, while sad Axanar won’t be made as intended, was happy to see CBS/Paramount demonstrated that Trek doesn’t need to be TNG boredom and can be respectful of canon in a Wagon Train to the Stars exciting universe and that people can be entertained by that! We don’t need the pre-TOS ships to look like the Akira, we don’t need pre-TOS peace with the Klingons, you can have a respect for canon and make it look awesome in a dynamic action packed universe. That was worth it to me, but I understand it might not be worth it to others. The most “creepy” is the downplaying and occasional insults against fans who actually wanted Axanar. Some TOS fans would take Axanar over all of TNG and Voyager put together. I think that the personal nature of these attacks ultimately are a result of a Trek “culture war”. Some are just upset that these TOS fans with their FASA manuals and Klingon cold war are back involved in Trek in contrast to the TNG utopia. Some of us want wagon train to the stars and totally… Read more »

El Chup,

Re: Captain James P Jerk

I believe that would violate either the parody copyrights of STAR TWEK or STAR DRECK, or both.

If someone wants to watch prelude without the Trek connection, good for them. I personally found it unwatchable. The only parts of interest to me were the Star Trek parts. And that’s the root of the entire issue.

grayzip,

Re:… George Lucas couldn’t get the rights to Flash Gordon

It’s second hand, but according to PLANET OF THE TITANS’ director Phil Kaufman, he tried to get the movie rights to STAR TREK too.

I donated $50 to New Voyages/Phase II last year, because I like their “fanfilms” more than the “other guys” like STC and the rest. Based on my gut feelings, from both AP and STC, I wouldn’t give either of them a nickel. I also regret having given NV/PII money, because their main websites virtually vanished off the web months ago, and I didn’t even get to see “Torment of Destiny” (the film-in-progress that prompted my donation). So it seems that Mr. Cawley has left us hanging without explanation.

My lesson was learned after throwing away $300 in donations to fanfilms, profilms, and otherwise, without updates or contact. As a filmmaker since 1970 myself, I’ll be damned if I would ever beg for donations … I never have and I never will.

Good on Ya , Vokar ! I also gave to New Voyages/Phase II and Axanar , and would again ! I got the insider emails on Axanar , and know these guys were legitimate in their attempt to bring some heart to Star Trek ! If I saw Alec on the Street pushing his shopping trolley , I would dig deep and say “Here My Man , here’s a Share House in Hawaii , you can sit yourself down for awhile . I know how hard you tried , and of those who stabbed you in the back.”
He knows the Cheapskates at Cbs/Paramount and why Bryan Fuller walked !

Axanar and the people behind it have NO heart. They’re a bunch of frauds attempting to use Star Trek to make themselves feel important. And you can sense it when you watch the material. It’s dripping with megalomania, and just screams “Look at me!” There is no creative vision, no heart, and no soul. Unlike other fan films, who may not have professional actors, or great SFX, or massive sets, you can tell they are made by people who just love Trek.

Boom another “creepy text” I’d say gave Peter’s a moral advantage. This post personally insults Peters (he has no heart? What is he, Darth Vader?) and then downplays TOS fans that would want to see Axanar. Tere is an example of a creepy post by “El Chup”. Some generic name comes on and personally insults Peters.. stranger still is the down playing of TOS fans that would want Axanar (they are all megalomanics, who would ever want to see Axanar?!?!). This is the most “creepy” part of what I feel is an organized campaign (note the timing of the posts, the generic names that make you feel that they are connected)that ultimately aims to downplaying and insults not only Peters (which is fairer game I’d argue) but fans who actually wanted Axanar. Some Trek fans wanted to see strategic starship combat in a dynamic wagon train to the stars universe where ships last more than two minutes in combat and the Federation faces real challenges out on the frontier. I think that CBS/Paramount wants these fans – these are the fans who used to buy FASA roleplaying books to get the stats on the Excelsior and K’tinga and build models, etc) that have been lost. I think CBS/Paramount reads these forms and saw the side that was supporting them “fans who make fanfilms are nonsense!!”, “Trek fans are a small minority!!!”, “what kind of Trek fan wants to see canon starship combat??” (Rouge One takes in billion dollars), “Trek fans… Read more »

You’re right. I’ll concede that personal attacks are unwarranted an der unjustified. Apologies.

But certainly these are the impressions I’ve gotten from the films and peters’ own comments. And for “Darfyn” to put him up on a pedestal I found a bit ridiculous, at least as ridiculous as a personal attack.

As for a “random username” I’ve been posting consistently on this site under this name for quite a while.

But conspiracy theories seem to be axanar supporters bread and butter. If you think every criticism is the result of an “organized campaign” against you, I think you should join Trump’s inner circle.

*and are unjustified. I hate this site has no edit button… I should stop posting from my phone!

As for CBS/Paramount, I have no doubt that someone within their orgs reads these sites. I also have no doubt that it played no role in their decision making. The settlement was fairly straightforward and got CBS/Paramount everything they wants:

1) Peters doesn’t profit
2) Peters scales back his film and is not promoted alongside their product
3) future fan filmmakers now know the lines they can’t cross.

I don’t think CBS/P were ever really interested in huge sums of money, I don’t think they had a vendetta against fan films, and I don’t think there was any fear of retaliation from Trek fans, either. As many have said, the segment of Trek fandom that ardently follows these films is a fraction of the whole, and even among THEM, the segment that would boycott future Trek over Axanar is but a fraction of that.

Keep in mind that the angry Pro-Axanar supporters are very much the vocal minority.

And I’ve posted under this username since I’ve been here, and used this as my posting name at trekbbs for several years before too many posters kept cheapshotting it, even after I repeatedly explained it was a contraction of my own name and how I used to sign my name (that stopped when the bookstore chain I managed got acquired by KMart or Kmart’s owners and somebody THERE got PO’d.)

I don’t think this is about whether folks do or should embrace starship combat, but it is a matter of CONTEXT, in terms of story, along with intensity and duration. I would love to see a good sustained space battle sequence in TREK, but have never gotten one that was all that satisfying to me. There are moments in some of the features, and some stuff in DS9, but nothing like what I would have shot myself or written. And not a lot of CG fireballs either. Hulls crumpling after shields have gone through a rainbow of fluctuations, doing the real deal, and with a sense of velocity AND mass, unlike the PRELUDE one-speed-fits-all cutgame approach.

I think you can integrate all of that into a good Trek story, but PRELUDE didn’t hint at the ability to deliver anything engaging IMO.

You’ll find a variety of stories in Trek, which is why i love it: war, character-drama, comedy, horror, thriller, crime, you name it. But when I watched Prelude and read statements about AXANAR from Peters, it always sounded like the project was more about HIM than about Star Trek: showing off how good he could make a Star Trek movie, with big sets, and legit actors, and a professional SFX, even claiming it would be better than JJ’s films.

Sure, he’d talk a lot about his love for Trek. But from the things he SAID, it never came through.

Granted, I don’t know the man, never met him, these are just impressions I got from reading interviews and statements. Frankly, before this lawsuit i’d never heard of him.

DS9 had a hundred ships racing at a hundred ships which I did not get… Star Trek was always one ship in the quadrant where Starfleet had 12 Constitution class starships. Balance of Terror had a real running space battle for an hour between two ships which I think had more drama then every battle in TNG that lasted 2 minutes put together. Alien races back then had different technology – Romulans have cloaking devices and plasma torpedoes, Klingons had disruptors and drones, Federation had photon torpedo’s and phasers. Ships would fight to the bitter end with crews trying to repair ships, etc. That kind of Trek is engaging and exciting – bland Trek where everyone runs at each other with torpedoes and ships blow up in seconds.
To bring together all 12 in a fleet was something special because it meant there were facing a real important threat. Starfleet only had 12 Constitution class starships that a fleet battle was something special…. DS9 disappointed by making those fleet battles something to resolve in a matter of minutes. Nothing what TOS hinted at. Axanar seemed like we would finally unleash some of that potential!

Yup. I’ve posted under this name on here for at least 8 years. The conspiracy theories that Peters or his cohorts are feeding the pro-Axanar crowd, that every critic must be in league, are laughable.

Sorry folks, but I’m not one of the “I stand with CBS “haters”” masquerading as someone else.

I judge Peters by his own public behaviour and make no apologies for it.

I’ve known Alec a long time , and have known him to be a passionate Trekkie for decades ! He hasn’t arrived on the scene , just a year or two ago . His Fandom goes back to the 1980’s . his plan may have been grandiose , and as we know , it was too much ! And I follow Torchwood too !

Four years war, Captain Garth of the USS Xenophon… I bought a FASA RPG supplement with those back when I was in grade six in like 1989 at a convention in Edmonton “Return to Axanar”.. the real highlight was the Four Years War supplement. That Peter’s actually refers to some of that as the source material shows the man was a hard core Trekkie pre-TNG. That was awesome material, FASA Trek was so much more exciting than the TNG material that came after it.
I always think that Star Trek went off the rails when Star Trek IV wasn’t followed up with an attempt to expand that universe (I remember there was talk of Kirk being considered not to immediately return to Starfleet but have the bird of prey on the frontier.. have Saavik and David Marcus as a “next generation” in Starfleet, etc). Meanwhile you would read DC Comics with the USS Excelsior and all these engaging stories. It was a golden era as the Trek universe was just so exciting at the time.

That you know him personally puts your comments in a different context.

…a different context meaning, not right for me to judge them as ridiculous. Just for clarity.

I think a more fair critique is – are there TOS fans soooooo desperate to see something like Axanar and a return to Wagon Train to the Stars Trek with a respect for TOS canon that they would give Axanar funding regardless of the film not even being made just for the hint that direction for Trek.
You may use me as evidence – YES!!!!!!
Has Peter’s taken advantage of this?? I like to think that he just wants to see some FASA Trek come to life as well, but I fully submit it is a fair complaint to say he might be in the business of taking advantage of this desperation… To which I respond CBS/Paramount – why are you not making this Trek when there is a market!!! Why do you keep putting out TNG bland Trek even with Enterprise where you took the entire prequel concept and threw it out the window by making peace with the Klingons, inventing transporters and giving everyone phasers on stun the PILOT episode?!?!?! Get it together!!!

How was Axanar a “return to Wagon Train to the Stars”??? There was virtually nothing beyond the superficial in Axanar that reminded me of the spirit of TOS. DS9, maybe.

It was a “grounded in reality” war documentary. Which is fine, there’s room for all kinds, but it’s certainly not a “return” to classic, TOS Trek.

I consider it a return to “wagon train to the stars” as 1) builds on TOS lore 2) back to TOS style starships as Horatio Hornblower (who fought many a fictional war) “sailing ships/navy cruisers in space” with Starfleet as the navy 3) the Federation as a developing interstellar culture facing challenges on the frontier 4) classic Federation vs Klingons with two diverging cultures allowed to not get along with all the interesting conflict that comes with it. 1) Building upon TOS lore. Axanar has its roots in “Whom Gods Destroy”. TOS often depicted pre-TOS as filled with conflict – Romulan War, Battle of Danteau V, Axanar. TOS seemed to be a “golden age of exploration” following some rough times on the frontier. Axanar seemed to be willing to explore that in spades. 2) TOS was sold as “wagon train to the stars” with ships on the edge of the frontier as it they were 16th century frigates. The Enterprise was sold as a “heavy crusier” the writers guide refers to Kirk as a Vietnam Captain. The ships had batteries of phasers that could dish out and take a beating. A starship could impact the fate of an entire sector – this seems to be reinforced with Axanar where the appearance of the D-7 battlecrusier could win the galaxy for the Klingons that could only be halted by a Connie or stalled by an Ares – where a Captain could decide the fate of the Federation. 3) TOS seemed to… Read more »

I disagree with all of those points.

I am shocked that people think this captures any ignorant the spirit of TOS. Except maybe bad acting.

Hey if you like it, fair enough. but I laugh when people say it feels like classic Star Trek.

Ignorant was supposed to be “of”…. I don’t get it either…

Well I respect that. I would even take William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy’s acting over Patrick Stewarts. Do I think it’s because Shatner was a better actor than Stewart; no, I’d agree Stewart is the better actor, it’s just James T Kirk was a more exciting character in a more exciting “Trek” universe that was allowed to be epic. He was allowed to be one man representing the entire Federation of Planets unable to wait for the response from Starfleet Command to cross the neutral zone with the responsibility and authority to potentially plunge the universe into a galactic war while Spock was allowed to argue that they must attack now for they dare not show weakness… epic, epic and epic. With music allowed to back that up.

I find Shatner great in the films, but cringe worthy in the series. ST6 is still my favorite Trek film, mostly thanks to the thriller aspect and Nimoy’s performance contrasted with Plummers
.

I like ST6 too but it really is a cold war movie in space (which I think is awesome). I sometimes like to say that Master and Commander is among the best Star Trek TOS movies ever made (ship in the middle of nowhere locked in combat with another ship for the fate of a whole part of the world). Is it that much of a stretch to see a “World At War” in Space documentary as cool? (And yes I do own a copy of World At War, unclear why in this 100 channel universe we do not find documentaries like World At War, Day the Universe Changed, Connections, etc but that is a whole other topic).

Never seen M&C. Will have to give it a look on your recommendation.

Oh, I think Shatner had genuine acting chops, but they were largely eroded by second season TOS (1st season had that ‘go to your quarters or I’ll pick you up and carry you there’ in CHARLIE X that is low and excellent, but the quiet convincing commander goes largely by the wayside later in the season.) He has hit a new level of truthfulness this century with BOSTON LEGAL, but if you ever saw him young, in THE INTRUDER … that showed Shat in a role that let him do all his stuff while being in character.

I actually found Stewart to be very one-note as Picard. Thought he was great in EXCALIBUR and DUNE, but on TNG … just very rarely worked for me.

I’ve not said that Shatner couldn’t act. Loved him in TZ. I enjoyed Nimoy in TOS. But by-and-large, TOS was aimed at a young audience, so there was rarely a focus on bringing strong performances. Same for the first two years of TNG, which were abominable all around. But Stewart was far from one-note.

I was recently rewatching “Disaster” which is truly an excellent episode because it is an ensemble that gives everyone something to do, puts people in new situations (Troi in command, Worf as a doctor), puts characters together we don’t often see interacting (Troi/Ro, Geordi/Crusher) and most impressive, two MAIN series REGULARS manage to have complete character arcs in a single episode 5 years into the run. Both Troi and Picard learn new things, and their characters undergo a change. Great writing.

And in that Episode, Stewart is more than the stoic diplomatic, but also a father-figure and leader, and at times even downright charming.

What was he expecting? Fanfiction is by its very definition, illegal. It is copyright infringement.

Just as there are many books, many stories in any library, I for one was eagerly looking forward to Axanar.

Considering all the other potential challenges, all that’s really left for Peters is to declare bankruptcy and go home. Lesson learned….I hope.

A lot of Commentors seem willing to condemn Alec Peters and Team , but I contributed to the Axanar Crowdfund and received regular updates on what was being done with the Funds . There certainly seemed no fraud involved , except for rounds of coffee and lunch for their Team .

These Fan Films have come about due to the neglect by the Franchise . When the excellent long running series , Voyager , finished , there were no Tv or Movie Specials to continue that story . And the same with the Series , Enterprise , which finished as it would seem , halfway through it’s run . In the meantime , it is known the Executives in Charge , were pocketing millions in bonuses every year . But nothing , in the way of continuance of these Series , were even a slight thought for the many fans !

A lot of Commentors seem willing to condemn Alec Peters and Team Mostly because of the things he has done and said. I contributed to the Axanar Crowdfund and received regular updates on what was being done with the Funds . There certainly seemed no fraud involved , except for rounds of coffee and lunch for their Team . “Seemed” is important. “Except” is important. I’m not going to re-cover all of the things Peters & Co. did that are in violation of copyright law, let alone the morally borderline violations he committed taking advantage of donors because it has been discussed ad nauseum. But that’s what you and others are doing: acting like it never happened because it hasn’t been discussed in a while. I’ll mention the two biggest violations in my mind: he used donor money to fund a for-profit studio. Essentially, he was able to leverage the Star Trek brand to fund this studio. Second, he licensed the rights to a copyright violating film to others to make merchandise. Egregious. These Fan Films have come about due to the neglect by the Franchise . When the excellent long running series , Voyager , finished , there were no Tv or Movie Specials to continue that story . So? Just because you’re not happy with how they handle Trek doesn’t mean it’s ok for people to violate copyright. Ludicrious. And the same with the Series , Enterprise , which finished as it would seem , halfway through it’s… Read more »

Torchwood
I’ll mention the two biggest violations in my mind: he used donor money to fund a for-profit studio. Essentially, he was able to leverage the Star Trek brand to fund this studio. Second, he licensed the rights to a copyright violating film to others to make merchandise.

It bears mentioning that Peters & Co. stated their intention to re-invest all proceeds from Ares studios and the merch back into non-profit films, which wouldn’t necessarily be profit (if not for Peters paying himself a $37k producer fee). I don’t know the specific legal arguments about this stuff, but it seems that the problem was in their amassing a portfolio of assets which would then have to be monitored for as long as Axanar owned them, to ensure that they did not generate profit. So, in 5 years, for example, Axanar Corp. might disband and liquidate its assets. And, if individuals formerly of Axanar Corp then began receiving profit from these assets (which they owned as individuals, and not as members of Axanar Corp.), who would CBS go after to collect? The copyright-infringing party (Axanar Corp.), would at that point be defunct. And its former members wouldn’t have any liability. I’m just speculating here, but you can see how such convolutions, as leveraging non-profit crowdfunding into supposedly non-profiting assets, would raise red flags.

It bears mentioning that Peters & Co. stated their intention to re-invest all proceeds from Ares studios and the merch back into non-profit films, which wouldn’t necessarily be profit (if not for Peters paying himself a $37k producer fee).

Peters seems to always speak out of both sides of his mouth. He also said the studio would be used for non-Trek productions, that were never said to be “not for profit.” Also keep in mind he has a very different idea of what “not for profit” means, to you and me, and to the law.

Regardless of what his intentions were or weren’t, though, those are still massive violations of the law. He’s not Robin Hood– the ends don’t justify the means. Even if he’s funneling his profits to cancer victims, it’s still illegal, it just would get him some moral high ground.

As Consumers we have no rights other than what we contribute . When The Next Generation Series came out , I purchased the vhs tapes one by one , then the Dvd sets at $60 a season , until I had them all . Then similarly with Enterprise Series at $90 a season . In between all this I had purchased the Movies on Vhs , then on Dvd , then on Bluray . Adding to this during the 2000’s , I got the Deep Space 9 and Voyager Dvd Sets . And adding to my Original Series Vhs series , I got the HD Dvd Sets , then the Bluray Sets . So I like to Voice my Consumer Rights !
Let me compare Star Trek to Star Wars , which recently announced there would a Star Wars Movie , every year until 2030 , and 4 new Tv Series over the same period .
What has Star Trek offered – 3 Make-Believe-We’re-StarTrek-Somewhere-Else Movies , and 1 Performance-Based Series that possibly may last 4 seasons .
I say , let the Fans show what they can do too !

That makes no sense.

Do I support the full-fledged “fan film” cottage industry? No. If they’re going to do it they need to understand the risks. Since this suit, to a man, every other fan filmmaker has acknowledged that they knew that making these films was technically out of bounds, and should the IP owners ask them to stop, they would.

I don’t see what your media purchases have to do with it. If you’re complaining about money spent, then don’t spend it. But the underlying point is, it’s their property to make money off of. They spent millions in dollars and hours producing those shows, creating these movies, developing those stories, characters and visuals that we all love. If they don’t want someone playing with their brand that they’ve invested so heavily in, that’s their right in my view, both legally and morally.

Now, that just shows how lenient they’ve been for the last few decades (particularly the past 15 years or so), allowing series’ to spring up and gain followings, and all the more reason to stop the slippery slope before someone slides right off.

Charles… Pull my finger.

In distantly related news: STB gets an Oscar nomination:

BEST MAKEUP & HAIRSTYLING

A Man Called Ove 

Star Trek Beyond

Suicide Squad

I Khan Believe It An\\\'t Butter

On the one hand I don’t care, on the other hand I still don’t care.
Lock him up.

Must be a slow Trek news week if Peters and the idiotic Axanar drama he created is still the top story on this site. God that prelude was horrible. Can’t believe people were excited by that excrement.

It’s not like Paramount is going to produce something better. Trek movies have been awful for almost 20 years.

Trek started out just god awful 50 years and has gotten better here and there. We’re better off now than 50 years ago that’s for sure. Jesus that original show was horrible garbage.

loser

I didn’t lose anything. I’ve still got it

I’m younger than you thank God.

Yea thank God you’re younger because that means . . . I’m not sure what it means but whatever it is, I’m sure you’re proud of it. Gold star for you!

Grow the hell up.

Shame on you, Harry. Stoklasa & Evans love TOS.

While I think CBS was stupid to sue here, I don’t for a second remove blame from Alex. Good lord, he fraked up fan films forever in Trek.

Oh well. I’d have liked to have seen the film, but a new TV show made it inevitable that the fan scene would have to be scaled back. There’s been some amazing work done by both professionals in their spare time and talented amateurs whose work I hope to see again somewhere.

For all the chaos this case stirred up, I suspect a legal action would have been inevitable in the long run somewhere down the line against someone, given the fan Trek scene had become so vast and a cottage industry of sorts by itself, with all the inevitable egos and interpersonal melodramatics that inevitably develop in a creative environment.

As the dust settles somewhat at the end of this messy case, rather than getting involved in rancour, I’ll just thank the fan film makers for all the new stories they gave us. Like the different iterations of Star Trek, they’ve been so varied and ‘all things to all people’ that there will always be fans of one film series but not another. But at least the choice was there.

Seriously, thank you, all you fan film makers. Good luck with all your future endeavours.

May the force be with you so you live long and prosper!

Peters should be held accountable for the funds raised that were supposedly intended for production costs on Axanar, but were never & never will be used for that purpose. I’d say he owes the donors their money back. While it is true that the studio he planned to build was mentioned in the crowdfunding campaign, it was also stated the funds would be used for production. Since that hasn’t & now won’t ever be the case, the donors should be compensated.

Good point. Axanar’s rebuttal to that seems to be:”the court/FBI/Interpol/Paramount didn’t force Alec to give the mobey back, therefore a) you shouldn’t be asking, and, b) you’re a hater.

Going by Carlos’ latest update on his own site, probably need a new thread about what AXANAR is up to right now, with possible attempts to work around settlement to get big financing through reworking of their website. Has anybody clicked the AXANAR link to see if this leads to an implicit or explicit solicitation for finishing (ha! re-starting is more like it) funds?

Wow… 1.5Million is gone and used by Peters for personal expenses… What a peach!

I started out a year ago believing in the idea that it was the evil corporation that was greedy and wanted to make sure that no one did anything with Star Trek. I admit it.

I’ll tell you what… a year later I have changed my tone. All evidence seems to show a history of and current evidence that Alec Peters is nothing but a crook and scam artist that likes to play off of the hopes and dreams of Trek fans.

He has been overly defensive way too often for me to actually believe he’s even remotely innocent in all of this.

I sincerely hope that fans that believed in his “vision” and were duped get their money back, or at least get to see justice served.

Personally, I’d settle for prison time for tax fraud/ evasion. But I also was not personally affected by his sales pitch, so I really dont have a say in the matter in the first place. Best wishes to all of you who were. Cheers.

Screw you Axanar and I’m glad you bastards lost the lawsuit. To try and make money off of Star Trek and ruin it for everyone….damn you all.

Just too funny. Peters confesses his own misappropriation of Star Trek in order to escape with what little dignity he had left.

The bottom line here is that Axanar’s arrogance and actions have hurt fan films permanently. Interesting how the $1.4 million is now gone, which shows people who gave to this production are suckers.

Ultimately, what was once a very entertaining group of fan made episodes and films now have no reason to be made due to unreasonable guidelines.

The fans lose here, and we have Axanar to thank.

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