Watch More ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Finale BTS Video, Cornwell’s Original Story Revealed & More

There are a few more bits of Star Trek: Discovery news to catch up on, including more behind the scenes videos, and some of the actors revealing more about their roles and themselves. We also have an update on Discovery’s award season.

Behind the scenes in Orion Compound

Today CBS released an official video showcasing the shooting of the Orion Compound, with comments from L’Rell actress Mary Chieffo, executive producer/director Akiva Goldsman, and production designer Tamara Deverell.

Cornwell was supposed to die

In an interview with Den of Geek, actress Jayne Brook (Admiral Cornwell) revealed that originally she wasn’t going going to make it:

“Their original plan for Cornwell, when they called me last May and said, ‘Will you please play this Admiral?’, the idea at the moment is that she dies really heroically in her third episode.”

Originally, Cornwell wasn’t going to make it.

Cruz again confirms Culber is coming back

There has been some controversy since Dr. Culber was killed on Discovery, but the producers of the show and actor Wilson Cruz continue spread the message he is coming back (in some form) in season 2. An example of that was in a tweet sent out yesterday by Cruz to a fan complaining about the death of Culber.

See how Klingons are made

The Hollywood Reporter visited Alchemy Studios to talk to Mary Chieffo and the make-up artists that make Klingons for Discovery.

Martin-Green honored to be role model

Speaking to the official Star Trek site, Sonequa Martin-Green (Michael Burnham) spoke about the reaction of girls and boys of color to the show:

What really gets me is girls being able to see this story, being able to see themselves reflected in me and reflected in all the women in our show. And then it doesn’t stop with the girls. It continues with the boys. It’s just really being able to show our youth such a strong, heroic, sacrificial, utopian picture. It means everything. And then being able to see, within the show, the end of racism as we know it now and being able to see equality across the board, across universes, it’s wonderful. Yes, you see us battling with Klingons, you see the Federation and the Klingon Empire going toe to toe and you see the combating belief systems, but you see peace come in the end. I just feel you have to see a hero that looks like you in order to find the hero within, that’s for sure. So, it means a lot that people are seeing that we get to be here and get to be involved in our own way with the solution. We get to be the solution, and we get to show you what a solution could look like.

Sonequa Martin-Green strikes a heroic pose as Michael Burnham

Doug Jones defends Disco’s darker side

Speaking to Digital Spy, actor Doug Jones (Saru) reacted to how some fans have “mixed” views on the darker tone in Discovery:

“Television is very sophisticated now, and it’s very movie-like. It’s of a movie quality. We have a more cinematic show than the other Star Trek series before us, because we have to compete. And we have a huge budget – thank heavens for CBS! The reaction has been mixed with the darker material, sometimes, or the swear words, or whatever. But not being on broadcast television and being on a streaming service instead, they have the license and the freedom to do that. So they’re trying it all out, and I don’t blame them for that.”

Doug Jones OK with the darkness

Discovery beat out by Game of Thrones VFX

We previously reported that Discovery was nominated for two Visual Effects Society Awards: Visual Effects in a Photoreal Episode, and Outstanding Compositing in a Photoreal Episode. The winners were announced last night and unfortunately Discovery lost out in both categories to Game of Thrones.

Discovery has received some other nominations, including one by the Costume Designers Guild, and it was just announced that actor Wilson Cruz will be one of the presenters at the ceremony next week.

Tweet of the Day: Cast want more Lorca

Jason Isaacs tweeted out this behind the scenes photo  with some of his fellow cast members and a sign hinting that they would like to see his return as Prime Lorca.

Star Trek: Discovery is available exclusively in the USA on CBS All Access. It airs in Canada on the Space Channel and is available on Netflix everywhere else.

Keep up with all the Star Trek: Discovery news at TrekMovie.

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We have not seen the last of Mr. Isaacs, you can bet all the gold pressed latinum you want. Indeed with the photo and the sign, I am starting to lean towards the plot that they pick up Prime!Lorca on Vulcan.

The tease about the new Captain on Vulcan was certainly something that fans seemed to overlook in the Enterprise hoopla (and I’d be shocked if it’s an actual Vulcan, too easy). Isaacs’ will definitely return at some point. But his tweet suggests it won’t be anytime soon. I still think season 3 or 4, maybe the end of season 2 at the earliest. Build up demand; wait for his availability and interest to return.

Well, let’s look at the possibilities. I’ve stated on another thread that I think it’s going to be Robert April. The other candidates:

Matt Decker – Would be great, but I don’t know what actor would be willing/capable to step into William Windom’s shoes.
Pike – He’s on the 1701 so it’s not him.
Garth – A great choice but I’m concerned that the producers will back away from this as it’s going to be obvious what the arc of his character is going to be… and these people are addicted to twists.
T’Pau – She was very aloof in TOS Amok Time so she certainly wouldn’t have been a Starfleet Captain just a decade earlier.
Sybok – Zero chance.
T’Pol – That would make me wet my fanboi diapers but I don’t think that they’re going to harken back to ENT, the stepchild of the franchise, for a Captain.

So I’m down to April or Prime!Lorca. What really stinks is that we will have to wait a year to find out!

Sorry for the double post but I just had a thought that gave me goosebumps. Alexander Marcus? Yikes!

Wouldn’t Marcus give us another MU Lorca scenario? T’Pol would be a very interesting choice and given the writers fondness for ENT at times not a total shock.

If I had to guess though I’d say it’ll be a new character altogether. More room to work. I think the only reason they were heading to Vulcan at the end of the episode was so there was an excuse for Sarek to be there during the USS Enterprise reveal.

Technically, Marcus could be a completely different character, having lived most of his adult life in the prime timeline as opposed to how he developed in the Kelvin timeline.

It would be feasible at least.

T’Pol would be a lot of fun. She’d have some kinship wirh Michael as far as human/Vulcan relationships go.

It’s wntirely possible the new captain is an original character. Or it’s a red herring and the side tracked distress call prevents them from ever picking up their new captain and by the time the seasons events are over, Saru ends up with the gig (or #1 transferring from Enterprise)

Or it can just be a totally new character. But I will admit this is where Discovery kind of confuses me. In some ways it feels like its trying to be the ultimate fanboy show with all these hints and references to past characters and placing it in a familiar time period. But then it seems to try to avoid anything super obvious, mostly by changing everything that is familiar in that universe or not doing more obvious fan service.

Like for example they could’ve followed all the other shows’ pilot episodes diretion and throw in a character from a previous show to ooh and awe us with. How hard would it have been to show Archer or T’Pol on a view screen consulting with Georgiou in the first episode? It took us to the MU in the first season but did little to attach it to the previous mythology like going back to the Defiant which would’ve been a no-brainer to do. We hear Spock’s name every other episode but the producers almost sound defiant in not actually showing him.

We know we are seeing the Enterprise next season but who knows if we even see inside of it. Thanks to Discovery they can now just holographically project everything so we may not get much if no one beams over there although we’ll get something.

Its just so weird and why I’m not sure the new Captain will be someone known but just a completely new random character. But since they didn’t introduce him or her then its possible they are waiting for a major shoe to drop but don’t count those eggs just yet. This show does a masterful job of misdirection when it has to.

I like the April idea. I think some other possibilities – Pike’s number One… and then just about any captain, admiral or commodore we saw in TOS or the movies.. Mendez/Nogura/Komack/Ron Tracy/etc.

And my favorite choice – Captain Finnegan. Actually Sean Finnegan probably would be too young in Discovery time to have a ship, but he could be assigned to it!

And exactly how established is it that George Kirk did not become a captain?

I would love to see Mendez, but Tracy would be a scary choice too. George Kirk died in 2233 and Discovery is set in 2256… unless we want to ignore the entire Kelvin scenario… which would make me very happy but is quite unlikely to happen.

George Kirk didn’t die in the Prime Universe. That only happened in the Kelvin Timeline.

Retro…I never thought about it but since Vulcans live a long time we very well could get a very very old T’Pol show up for a guest shot. That would, of course, be a stunt but a fun one.

I live in Toronto and once spring arrives, the cast and crew will be back for Season 2. There is no way Issacs will be able to hide for 8 months, so it will be hard to keep such a secret. Of course if we see him around the city this summer, should we post that to or keep it hush hush?

I think too, that either they are planning for an already known character to be the captain – or they simply aren’t yet telling anything about him/her simply because they didn’t cast one yet, and the actor’s/actresses appearance (younger or older, male or female, ethnicity…) will obviously influence some details about the character.

I’m glad Cromwell wasn’t killed off. I don’t love the character but she is interesting. She reminds me a bit of Admiral Nechayev from TNG and DS9 who was kind of a ball buster in a way and was willing to make any compromises to keep the Federation intact, some good and bad.

I feel Cromwell is like her even if she do things a little more questionable but she wouldn’t be a Star Trek admiral if she didn’t lol.

Also happy Culber is coming back. I was really starting to warm up to him.

Oh and I will sort of agree and disagree with Doug Jones here. I don’t think its the fact that its darker alone that is alienating some fans. DS9 was a pretty dark show that only got darker as it went along and I loved it. But yes others didn’t. But I think people can accept a dark Star Trek show, I think its the fact its the fact so many of the characters feel more unlikable because of it and because it was placed around the TOS era, which never felt ‘dark’ to me. TOS was a mostly light hearted action adventure show. Yes it had some dark episodes like all the shows did but the show was fun and uplifting and making Discovery feel so much more cynical and heavy handed in this era feels counter-intuitive to a lot of fans I guess. And Star Trek never did things like having people eat each other or excessive gore but yes its a different TV landscape now so you adapt.

But since they said it will eventually get to TOS in tone I can understand they wanted to start there but not end there so I’m open minded to the idea.

The season finale, for better or worse, felt like a pretty hard turn away from the darkness and cynicism of earlier episodes. I’m curious if that’s a signal shift, or just a way to end one season on a positive note.

I agree. I honestly think the war story line was used because thats what Fuller wanted. But now that its over I can see them going the direction to a lighter tone for sure. It will probably still have darker overtones but I don’t think the show is just going to focus on revenge and death so much and hopefully more on exploration and optimism.

Ironically that would make Discovery look like Voyager where they too abandoned the darker premise and crew conflicts within one season and then just went with “starship adventures”. Given how “darker” played out in season 1, I’m all for it though! And keep Harberts and his hacks away from any sort of political allegory…

Seriously. The political allegory stuff was hands down, the most annoying thing about the show. Everything else is pretty great.

“Harberts and his hacks”? Seriously? No political allegories? Those are part of Trek’s bread-and-butter, dropping that would be a mistake. In my experience, most fans look to Trek to tell those types of stories. And you say Voyager “abandoned the dark premise and crew conflicts” as if their original plan was to keep that element in place, I’ve never seen any indication of that being true, but perhaps I’ve missed something.

@VS Are you multiple people? Because sometimes your comments are insightful and eloquent. And then there are the political ones.

I don’t think darker was the issue. Apart from a couple of shock moments and some window dressing, the show wasn’t even all that dark, really — especially compared to a lot of Trek (I’d argue that some of DS9’s war episodes were darker)

I think that makes sense. Now that the first two chapters are complete, the producers and writers can consider the fan reaction to the show when formulating potential storylines for season(s) 2 and hopefully 3 and beyond. Example, considering the shock and reaction to Dr. Culber’s demise, I am sure they will be finding a home for Wilson Cruz’s character for the upcoming season.

I’m very sceptical and somewhat cynical after all that I’ve seen. I have also heard them describe the last finale twist as an “olive branch to fans” – i.e. to lure those disappointed back for season 2 (and subscription renewal). But if they take this ball and strike a home-run, I don’t know. All those overpromises from season 1 suggest it’s gonna be tough. As always: hope for the best and fear the worst!

I may be wrong, but considering the final episode was already in production by mid-late October (they had already finished shooting episode 13 in late Sept), I can’t imagine the griping of SOME fans had much of an influence on the story line. Because of the serial format, my attitude was always to wait until the end of the season to form and overall op on the show and I am glad I did.

I hope not. A whole show like that would be, well, the Orville.

And I’ve rambled on about this before, but anybody who says TOS was about optimism and exploration probably hasn’t watched an episode in a while. That’s even true of TNG. There’s conflict, people are flawed, people die.

Cornwell is much more accessible than Nechayev.
But, thats just me.

Well that’s true. I can’t imagine Nechayev sleeping with a Captain on their ship lol.

Hey, hey.

I can’t imagine Nechayev being old friends with any captain, that’s for sure.

I like Cornwell too. Look at all the shite she’s been through with the Klingons. She has a lot of grit.

It is funny that he is trying to connect “darker” to “modern”, “bigger budget” and “streaming services”. Apparently he is not aware that Star Trek has dabbled with darker since DS9 season 4 almost 25 years ago, when TPTB ordered “moar action, moar Klingons, moar war!” Making a darker show is just giving in to human weakness and laziness to conform to the zeitgeist and lower instincts instead of trying to lift them.

Yes I agree and what really bothers me every time they talk about this show because they act like only TOS, Enterprise and TNG existed but seem to forget DS9 which, oddly this show is really the closest thing to in terms of tone and structure. Its bizarre. While DS9 didn’t start as a war show thats what it ended up becoming and even had an entire season arc at war with the Klingons. Of course I thought how they handled their Klingon war was ten time better than Discovery’s.

And in fact his argument would make more sense if he compared it to what they did with DS9 or even Enterprise in its third season, which while not a war did concern a major conflict that lasted all of one season and made the show darker in itself. I wouldn’t say going dark is ‘lazy’ though, I just think its more compelling for people and lets be honest, it works. Think of the top shows on today and most of them are dark, violent shows like Game of Thrones, The Walking Dead, West World, Stranger Things, etc. The days that Friends and Fraiser ruled the airwaves with shows being just fun and upbeat is over and Star Trek is competing in a different era.

I said lazy because 1) as you wrote basically all modern (scifi) shows save for The Orville are dark so going with the stream and assured income is not bold at all from a creative point of view and 2) it’s the easy way out in terms of characters and drama. We have read the complaints of writers about “TNG perfect characters” for decades and you know why? It is hard to write! Utopia is difficult to write, much more difficult than your garden variety gritty, violent dystopia! But does that mean we should let the writers off the hook and produce the equivalent of fast food – comfy and appealing to our lower instincts, but bad for our health in the long term? More violence and toxic division is NOT what we need as a society right now…

OK fair enough. As I said though I’m fine with a darker show in general though so I’m not overly bothered by it. I guess for *me* Star Trek isn’t one thing. I liked DS9 for it being darker more conflicts and working in greyer areas. But I liked TNG because it tried to show things in a more diplomatic fashion and believed in its values of morality even if the universe as a whole was still ugly. I welcome it all, just as long as they can sell it.

The problem with Discovery is that they haven’t really sold it well enough. I agree with you its done mostly because thats where TV is right now and I’m FINE with that, but yes if you are going to do it then you have to really make it feel legitimate. And thats why my OP here I have problems with it because it feels like they just shoved it in a period they wanted to market but didn’t feel right on its own. So yes in that, we agree, it does feel lazy.

If you want to go the dark route, then I would’ve put it during the time of the Romulan war but they were obviously worried about it bumping it up too close to Enterprise so I understand why they didn’t. But that felt like a real dark time and when Starfleet was still coming in its own and could’ve gone big with it.

OR yes a post Voyager era when the Federation could have fallen or simply another war broke out. Or maybe they could’ve just gone bold and put the show in a different universe altogether where the Romulans or Klingons won the war and we see a Starfleet trying to rebuild itself but I guess that would be too dark.

But like I said MAYBE they are going the direction you want and we get a show that ultimately becomes more optimistic and inward looking. The problem is we don’t really know what Discovery is about as odd as that sounds, but its true. I mean the show started with a war that is now over so the show can be anything it wants now. Hopefully whatever it is, it will be better. ;)

Exploration of the week, aliens of the week, sci fi of the week, mystery of the week, fun of week, battle of the week, time travel of the week, allegory of the week.

Discovery is a science vessel go science the shit out of pre TOS. Dont need enterprise to help Discovery stand and run.

Michael should still be Vulcan trained and be trying to revert back to being human, Tilly should be the one helping her along like Geordi and Data. Dont need another Captain, make Saru captain he has earned it, or bring in Prime Lorca.

I was truly puzzled about the time placement of DISCO. I thought the Romulan War would’ve been good, too.

I agree, Tiger, Star Trek isn’t just one thing. And TNG had its share of dark episodes, “Chains of Command” for one.

Exactly Marja, all the shows had dark episodes, especially TOS and TNG, although I really only consider DS9 and DSC dark shows from the outset. But oddly thats why DS9 is my favorite because they showed a side of Starfleet and the Federation all the other shows just hinted at and they did it really well. People call DS9 a show for the 9/11 era and what’s crazy is it aired before that event handled. It just proves how well the writers really handled the grey subject matter and what people are willing to do in war time.

I feel thats what Discovery was sort of going for with Captain Lorca but now that we know he was just a fake version of the prime version the impact is a bit less.

But I think Discovery would just work SO MUCH better if they put the show around the Romlan War or after Voyager where they can do literally anything. In this period, it just rings false to me but a lot of things ring false on this show if I’m being honest. Still, I’m enjoying it.

When I consider watching reruns of Trek, I don’t often go to TNG, and it used to be my next favorite to TOS.

Now DS9 ranks tops with me.

Utopia is difficult to write because it’s fecking boring.

I may start to watch ds9 before s2 discovery

Completely agree.

I’m not sure that’s how it played out with DS9. Unless by TPTB you mean Ron Moore? Moore has been quoted saying that by the time they got to the last couple of seasons, they were given free reign and the studio wasn’t really paying as much attention to them anymore. Berman only gave him one directive, and that was not to destroy the Federation.

Find Prime Lorca and make sure he’s back for more than an episode cameo! Full time please!

Also, here’s hoping for more Mudd in season 2!

Hear, hear, TrekFan.

Yes please

100% Isaacs will be back, no way he goes down stabbed in the heart and tossed into the core without coming back as Prime Lorca. Very much like how MU Georgiou came back to the show when Prime Georgiou died in episode 2.

Personally I wouldn’t have killed Culber to begin with, but him coming back flies in the face of “There are no second chances” (Burnham, Finale). I know it’s a trope of Star Trek, but a tired one at that which they should retire if they care about making this show more meaningful and “modern”. Instead in season 1 they took the trope and multiplied it like a farm of tribbles. One of the many (surprising) negative season 1 reviews that came out these past days said that Discovery asked hard questions it never really wanted the answer to, and dialed back almost every twist it made with a giant in-universe reset button (except Lorca).

How can we beat Kobayashi Maru and cheat death if it’s done with magic? That is no meaningful message, it’s video game level escapism.

I’m glad you wouldn’t have killed Culber personally, VS.

things got silly when voq was altered to be human and lorca ended up being from mu and then killed, all that ruse just to be killed, all that planning with eye on the prize and he failed, boo!

Yeah thats what bothered me too. I thought the Voq/Tyler thing was beyond dumb BUT I probably would’ve been OK with it if he actually accomplished anything while doing it. Thats why it comes off more as just a cheap twist instead of it being something organic to the story line because Voq did literally NOTHING once he became Tyler. And I have brought this up several times but if anything all he did was help the Discovery get over on the Klingons. He helped stopped Harry Mudd from seizing the ship and giving to them and then he later helped Discovery find a way to see through their cloaking technology. And because he didn’t know he was actually Voq which made the ‘double spy’ thing idiotic because he did more to help them in the end than to hurt them. He would’ve killed L’rell in the process if she didn’t beam aboard with him on Discovery. It was just ridiculous and not necessary.

Now I will say Lorca’s turn was a bit more successful because A. We actually know what he was trying to do and B. He did get close in achieving his mission. But the problem was we waited 12 episodes for this guy to finally make his move only to fail in the same episode where he exacted his plan. It would’ve been better to at least see him defeat the Emporer even if temporarily but I blame that on time management and squeezing in WAY too much plot in a short season.

yes it was like one chef would start to cook and make a dish then walk away and another chef would look at what the previous chef did and try to make a good dish but in the end it was a broken telephone and muddled dish

yes the spy angle would have been fun if Voq sabotaged discovery or stole key info and relayed it back to the Klingons like in the departed movie and playing cat and mouse

I believe the plan was to get Tyler/Voq as deeply into Starfleet as possible, and then activate him when needed. If he had managed to get to Earth, he certainly could have sabotaged Earth defenses and allowed the Klingon armada to attack. Also, gathering information (even though he didn’t know at the time that he was doing it) on Discovery’s spore-drive would have been vital to the Klingon efforts. Of course, those plans were a failure, Tyler’s personality was much stronger than they had anticipated and they certainly didn’t count on him falling in love with Burnham. Love trumps all else, right?

And, most importantly, Tyler’s storyline gave us the wonderful performance from Shazad Latif, a true tour-de-force performance. I’m willing to forgive a bit of plot neatness for that alone.

Agreed the acting has been A+++ we are lucky to have such talented people in Star Trek

@Tiger Yeah, and then even when he was finally found out, it just got fixed and he became their secret weapon. For all the dialogue about Voq this and Voq that — I didn’t give a darn about the guy. So his arc kind of has no heft. Between the writing, heavy make-up and the Klingon lines, I had no idea who the character was.

On paper, it all kind of might make sense — Burnham’s parents were killed by Klingons! She started the war after betraying her captain trying to stop it! She falls in love with a former POW who was tortured by the Klingons and they help each other feel human again! But then he’s a Klingon and tries to kill her! — but it doesn’t really work.

And I don’t think it’s because we expect to be spoonfed or we’re not sophisticated enough for modern storytelling. I just don’t think that what the writers think is there is, well, actually there.

I just hope bringing Culber back isn’t done in a unique way, rather than just bring him back from the dead. CLearly he’s the spore but…

… how about a storyline where Stamets, mad with grief, carries on a secret relationship with a holographic recreation of his former lover; he knows it’s screwed up, but it’s how he copes, and he can’t let it go. Eventually he begins to forget it’s a simulation, and it causes problems… or perhaps an alien adversary taps into the Holo-Culver’s programming and uses it to subtly influence Stamets to sabotage the ship at a crucial moment.

it doesn’t have to be this specifically, I just hope his return is more creative than “look, he’s alive again!” It’s sci fi: there are ways to bring Culber back without just bringing him back from the dead; there’s a way to bring him back that preserves the character drama and consequences of his death.

There was some great work done on DSC but GoT deserved the win, sorry. The “Loot Train Attack” all by itself was a near-impossible-to-top minor masterpiece of CGI, practical FX, and bravura editing, especially by TV standards.

doesnt feel right without doctor Culbert and Lorca, something is missing

Personally I’m missing both Wilson Cruz and Jason Isaacs!

@Marja — I was watching SHERLOCK recently and an episode incorporates a deceased character throughout. Then I realized that BSG did the same thing — included a character who wasn’t really there. I suspect that’s what they’re going to do with Cruz. He’s going to be a big part of Stamets life and well experience his interaction with him. Maybe the twist will be that Staments thinks he’s just in his mind, but he’ll be real and eventually can leave the spore network, or not. But we’ll see it’s the spore network where he exists.

As for Lorca, if his Prime counterpart is as smart and capable as MU Lorca, then he probably managed to survive in the MU, and figured out how to return to the PU. The question I have is, if he did it via the Defiant interface, when he might have come back, and how much older he might be.

If you didn’t miss them then the showrunners failed. They succeeded in creating those characters, they will create new ones that are just as interesting, but different. And, of course, this is science-fiction, so no character is ever permanently dead. :-)

“The showrunners… succeeded in creating those characters…”

I don’t think they did, especially with Lorca. If anything, the actors did. Both Cruz and Issacs gave them both life, but there was very little on the page.

Especially with Lorca, it was all tease/set up and no payoff.

Looks fun and very sci-fi.

Unfortunately I will never really know.

I gave up on Trek.

s1 has been good but not without some flaws, you should watch it, missing out.

Well you obviously haven’t given up on that much because you are still here weekly discussing it. ;)

If you don’t want to watch it, fine, but I just find it odd how there are so many of you here making a bold statement how you will never watch it but yet spend hours discussing the show anyway. What exactly is the point? You will read every article but you don’t want to spend the extra 45 minutes a week it takes to watch it. Its your life but its bizarre.

Spot on, Tiger2. It’s quite laughable actually, that’s why I never take any of these haters seriously. I am sure they’re watching every episode but only state otherwise on forums like this. In fact, wouldn’t be surprised if they’re secretly enjoying every episode too!

I gave up on Orville after a few episodes. I certainly don’t read any articles about it, let alone comment on them.

People who feel the need to interject themselves into a conversation about Trek to announce they are no longer watching it are like people who announce they’re leaving Facebook and then unceremoniously start posting a week later; they’re the same people who announce in a huff that they’re leaving a party, to little fanfare. They’re upset that nobody is listening to them and just want attention.

They want people to call them back, to say they’ll miss them; to put on better music and dance with them; to make the show more like what they want.

Here’s the thing though: nobody misses those people on Facebook, nobody cares if you left the party, and other Trek fans don’t care if you stopped watching.

And the producers certainly aren’t going to change a successful show because you pouted on a message board.

I don’t understand this at all. What’s the deal? Why not watch if it “looks fun and very-sci”? If you’ve truly given up on Trek, it might be time to retire from posting here, at least in articles about DISCO, which you don’t seem to like, or perhaps even watch. If you have any actual constructive criticism, have at it, but I don’t understand what you’re doing.

From a 50 year old man POV, Adm Cornwell is one hot dime piece. :) I don’t believe Issacs will be back for some reason. I think he was there to be the big name, but they have been pretty crafty in making up new characters and I bet this Vulcan stop is someone that Saru and Burnam just don’t get along with and someone we don’t know . I will say, I am pretty sure Emperoress Bitchface will be a pain in the ass for the forseeable future and I also bet they NEVER show the inside of the Enterprise, so they don’t have to listen to us bitch and I bet we meet Pike and Number One but not Spock.

After the finale’s setup there is no need to show any viewscreen conversations anymore, let alone scenes on The Enterprise. This is not an enemy ship. They can just pick up right after Pike and Number One beamed over to Discovery and have them discuss the matter in the awesome new conference room. Problem solved!

Oh, that makes me wanna holler. I really hope Isaacs can come back, because Lorca’s MU ending kinda sucked. As someone said above, it was too rushed, and could have been much better [say, he took over the Empire to make it a better place, not just to oust Emperor Georgiou]. It was a real mistake to make Lorca MULorca. That Section 31 story could have played for some time.

I’m not going to hate on it without Isaacs there, but would be very very happy to see him back. Hope Isaacs will be available!

It could be done if they just show Pike on the screen of the bridge or as hologram. This should be a rather short conversation and so they even could “remaster” him as CGI or take his face from old scenes (with new uniforms and bridge lighting according to DISCO). And as an easter egg we get a climpse of No. 1 and Spock far in the background…

I know this will not happen because the showrunners already statet, but: What a great moment would it be to see Prime Lorca next to Pike! They could have picked him up and thats the cause of the emergency call to Discovery.

Ms. Martin-Green, perhaps you should not wrap yourself in self-satisfied sanctimony when your show amounts to a heap of vacuous twaddle. But we can be grateful for the trenchant riposte of Angelica Jade Bastién, a progressive woman of color, who exposes as fraudulent the claim that only the racist or sexist could possibly object to the virtuous majesty of Disco Trek. All who are alarmed about the current state of the Star Trek franchise must read Angelica Jade Bastién’s latest piece for New York Magazine (Vulture)- “… you can see the potential to consider a multitude of worthwhile thematic dimensions about war, human ethics in the face of great loss, and how communities are formed. But there is something insincere, even empty, about Discovery’s consideration of these ideas to date … Discovery is a superficially progressive revamp of a franchise that desperately needs to evolve…

Discovery is a haphazard evolution for the franchise. Yes, its visuals are sleeker and more cinematic, but it sacrifices the warm, lived-in quality that previous incarnations made fundamental to Star Trek production design. The first season has proven unflinching, vulgar, and explicit, yet it ended on an unearned note of heavy-handed optimism meant to align it with what the Enterprise represents: the belief in the inherent good in humanity and the wonderful possibilities for our future when we value community rather than divisions. It aimed to be more forward-thinking in casting and its visual grammar, yet hasn’t stepped out from the shadow of the franchise’s past…

Perhaps the gleaming progressivism of its marketing doesn’t extend to the show itself. In many ways, Discovery has imported the worst habits from modern television: brutal violence and casual deaths that make it seem any character could be killed at any moment (Georgiou, Culber); rape scenes (Tyler); bold twists that mask ramshackle stories (Voq’s new identity); and juvenile vulgarity that masquerades as intriguing world-building (almost everything about the Klingons). But the greatest failing of Discovery that undercuts the appearance of trailblazing progressivism is its poor character development, seen most acutely in Michael and Ash…

But once the long suspected theory of Ash being the Klingon Voq was confirmed — he was altered, made into a deep-cover agent, and overlaid with the personality of the real Ash — this fascinating thread about male vulnerability became muddled. It was all too apparent that Discovery didn’t quite know what to do with Ash after this twist. His decision in the season finale to join L’Rell — who is still his torturer and rapist, at least as far as his memory is concerned — seemingly runs counter to his goal to live peacefully.

Michael is an even more troubling example, considering her role as the first black female lead of a Star Trek series. What she represents versus how she is written creates fissures in the series, exemplifying how we know nothing of the few developed characters on Discovery beyond their traumas. Their dreams, desires, and interests aren’t legible, only the grit of their miseries. But for Michael, this decision bears a unique weight. Making her Spock’s adoptive sister is meant to give her an immediate importance, a role further heightened because she fits into neither human nor Vulcan culture. The fact that she’s never seen considering her bicultural background beyond the pain it’s brought is a glaring instance of her lack of character development. She isn’t a person, but a symbol. In the finale, Michael regains her place in Starfleet as a commander, stops the war with the Klingons she initially sparked, and gets kind recognition from her adoptive father, but I still have no idea who she is beyond the death of her parents and her various failures as a Starfleet officer.

I had a profound discomfort watching the show, especially whenever Michael was onscreen. As I talked to my friend and fellow writer Rahawa Haile about it, I finally understood why. Michael is what many in today’s political climate have tried to make black women: saviors stripped of any humanity. She is the modern version of the stoic, tough black woman unerringly shouldering trauma, doing all she can to save the world even as the world doesn’t respect her humanity. This isn’t only a narrative choice, but a visual one. When Michael’s hair went from smooth and straight in the pilot to her natural, curly texture afterward, I immediately recognized that no black women were involved with any importance in the writing staff. (I later learned that the writing staff is overwhelmingly white, and Kemp Powers is the only credited black writer.) It was as if the series used her hair as a visual cue to exemplify Michael’s otherness, unruliness, and savage failure…”

LOL I’m not going to even touch this. A brutal take down. I will say I agree with some of it but not all of it. But it does prove the things Discovery was going for probably did it too lightly and wrapped things up too neatly, like Voyager was accused of a lot.

There were a good half dozen of surprisingly negative season 1 reviews in the past few days alone from the likes of Mashable, Engadget, Ars Technica, Gizmodo, The Verge apart from this one… these ain’t Breitbart exactly!

What Discovery did with its constant twists is the equivalent to “Look, Squirrel!” Now that everyone had the time to reflect on what they have *actually* seen this past season, they seem the concur with what i’ve been saying all along – that characters, themes and plots just serve the twist and are as hollow as it gets beneath the shiny veneer. And that’s really important the Big Progressive Media (TM) pick up on this because Harberts & Co. can ignore us but they can’t ignore those influencing their millennial target audience!

some truth to this, I still enjoyed most of s1 except for the final episode and another episode

Your take on this is your same typically narrow minded view.

The twists were not necessarily cheap, but indeed were a way to get buzz and keep people talking.

Was it a perfect show? Absolutely not. Were there things I’d have done very differently? You bet. But still a very good show and still better than most Trek to this point.

The one thing a lot of critics haven’t zeroed in on yet is that Dsicovery is– and it’s far more noticeable on a binge watch– more of a nuanced character focused drama than a deep sprawling sci fi epic that they’ve promoted it as. The war, the mirror universe, even those “cheap twists” are there to create ways of exploring Burnham as a character.

If you want cheap twists, look no further than Walking Dead or Game of Thrones that are so hollow and are shows based on shock moments.

We get it, you think this show sucks. So far I’m not seeing that you like anything about it. But if you do like something about it, maybe share that with the community.

Tell us what you did like, what you didn’t, and what you hope to see improved next season, and what you hope they’ll keep.

Add something to the discussion.

You should read more about my comments because I’ve been writing about what I like to see improved next season *all the time*.

I just don’t like to repeat it ten times in every thread.

Which is why I’m glad that almost all of the millennial sites have been criticizing the same stuff and asking for the same changes (must be some pretty “narrow-minded people”!) because I’m sure they will be listening to this. If Harberts foolishly doesn’t, then his boss at CBS *will* or kick him out. You can count on it.


You say this was really a character oriented show. OK. If that is the case it was an epic fail there too. The main character had a backstory that could have produced some good drama but it utterly failed in every episode but one. After a while, I stopped caring about Burnahm. She was just not interesting all. Originally, Lorca was the fascinating one. (Until they decided to undermine everything and strip him of all that made him engaging by turning him into a cliché ridden mustache twirling “I want to take over the universe” bad guy.) After that, Saru became the interesting character. And after it all this ship went through it never felt like this crew had any kind of bonding whatsoever. That sappy ending was about as forced an ending as a show can have. The twists did not feel “organic” to the story. More like they were there to “keep up with the Jonses” because other, better made and more popular, shows were doing it too.

I wouldn’t call GoT twists as “cheap”. Those totally feel like they flow with the story. Unilike STD, who seem to have mapped out their twists and included them only for the sake of including a twist.

What’s missing is a balance. Roddenberry and many members of his team had been in the military and some had seen war. It kind of helps as a writer to think through and use that experience and apply it to all the different kinds of scenarios the Enterprise faced. But in the end, it was a story for each episode, not an arc.

If DSC is trying to say “there are implications” when something happens, I’d like to see at least a small arc next season about “our crew” dealing with a planet that was trashed during the war and it’s surivors. I’d like them to take that seriously and not fodder for “the personal growth” of our characters.

As with all streaming shows, there is something unreal/lame/pat about the way sets and alien characters are being used in DSC. It’s a way to save money, and it’s limiting. That’s why Avatar 2-5 are taking years to make and complete. For those of us who are science fiction readers as well, our imaginations are bigger than their budgets.

“Michael is what many in today’s political climate have tried to make black women: saviors stripped of any humanity. She is the modern version of the stoic, tough black woman unerringly shouldering trauma, doing all she can to save the world even as the world doesn’t respect her humanity…”

This encapsulates some of the sorrow I have felt watching Discovery during this first season, and I do love and enjoy the show.

But for me, I felt that the characters were put through too much, too quickly, and without time to think, sort through, grieve or basically deal with what has happened to them. There was an element of them not being allowed to be human; they functioned like military automatons. Any tiny piece of happiness was cruelly snatched away. While watching them enjoying it, I was filled with dread because I knew the other shoe was going to drop HARD on someones bunions.

I have been watching the season again from the beginning, with full knowledge of where things are going, and the dread is like a terrible pain now, especially with regard to Burnham’s relationships — to Georgiou, to Lorca, to Sarek and to Tyler. Perhaps the reason why she was still standing at the end of episode 15 is because of her training as a Vulcan. But we all know that too much compartmentalization is dangerous to the psyche.

Some maintain the season ended on a false note of optimism — that is absolutely true. Everyone on Discovery is horribly damaged, and they ALL need some serious therapy. Not sure if Admiral Cornwell should be conducting any therapy sessions either; she, too, has been damaged following her incarceration with the Klingons.

It would be great in Season 2 if we see more space for characters to deal with the tough things (the writers seem determined) they go through. We need to see some healing take place. At the rate they are going now, without that space, all they are probably doing is destroying a great bunch of folk, who have sacrificed everything to “save the world”, then some.
Just my two cents.

I agree with this 150%. And Admiral Cornwall is a war criminal.

ST DISCO FAN, I think that a large reason things felt like they went through too much too quickly is a function of the short season. With a full 24 episodes a lot more could have been fleshed out.
But the real problems of Ash being a sleeper and Lorca being from the MU would still not be solved with a more traditional season length.

You’re right, Kirok. A great deal more would have been fleshed out had we had a 24 episode journey. As interesting as it was to be able to read between the lines and fill in the blanks (I have a hyperactive imagination), it would have been lovely to seek what the writers would have done with more time to explore.

I would have loved to see the building friendship and sisterhood between Burnham and Tilly. I don’t doubt that the pain of the Lorca reveal would have been more severe had we seen more detail of his grooming Burnham to help him win his war in the MU. More episodes showing Burnham clawing her way back into everyone’s good graces would not have gone amiss. Neither would seeing flashbacks to her life with Sarek, Amanda and Spock on Vulcan, and her relationship with Tyler.

Ah well… it is what it is… Let’s see what they do in Season 2.

They could have used the same formula x-files used/uses and other shows. Have an overall arc that may dominate some episodes but have some stand alone shows that were more character driven. Trying to do both at the same time was forced and felt disjointed. But, I understand that they wanted a high visual quality show and the budget they created for their selves wouldn’t allow for more than what they did.

Actually Enterprise did that very thing in season 3. The season arc was dealing with the Xindi but they actually had a great number of standalone episodes that either slightly tied to the Xindi arc or were basically their own stories. Some of the best standalones that season were Twilight, E2, Similitude, North Star and Carpenter Street.

But they also had a lot more episodes to do that with. But I think if Discovery can just do 4-5 standalones along with the big story stuff that would be a decent balance.

I agree Kirok. I don’t think we will ever get that many episodes again, especially when you consider how much Discover. GOT is astronomical for a TV show but its also why its only 10 episodes a season.

I’m hoping though maybe they push the number of episodes up a little so they can flesh out the bigger arcs or give us some strong standalone stories like they did with The Sanest Man. That is the problem with serial shows, its hard to just slow down and give us strong standalones. But then those would be considered ‘filler’. I think 18 episodes would be a nice round number a season but as long as they keep it at 15 (Fuller originally only wanted 10) then I’ll be happy.

@KZ13 — pedantic, self-righteous, drivel. The summary argument is that the big bad white writers changed Burnam’s hair? Please …

It is not possible for it to be April. By canon, he was born in 2195. This makes him 62 yrs old. Also, by this time he was an ambassador. No chance of commanding a starship

@SL — April’s history is not official canon.

Where is that ever mentioned?

why would you consider 62 too old for a starship? They need an experienced captain to manage a ship with this drive and after the war star fleet doesn’t have a surplus of those.

What if the Enterprises distress signal was that they found prime Lorca?

Oooh! The very thought of that is giving me goosebumps in a good way :-)

It would feel like a repetetive, campy joke from a 60ies Superhero show.

it was a distress signal. how would that be distress?

It really did make sense that Cornwell would bite it. I’m guessing that was an intentional misdirect given what they did later. But that’s not a big deal. The big deal was, obviously, the Lorca thing. At this point they ruined the Lorca character so much that it would be best to keep Prime Lorca dead. If they were true to the mirror thing prime Lorca would just be a cliche ridden good guy. The opposite of his MU counterpart. Making him a character not worth exploring at all. But, if they could give us a PU captain like Lorca from the first half of the season… Then we might have something for season 2 to chew on…. I’d love to see a Captain that the crew hates but gets the job done. We all have had bosses we hate but when you take the emotion out of it you realize they were doing their job. Am I right?

agreed. It would be just too confusing to have a “different” Lorca in command. Probably go with a old guy that Burnham will take over for down the road or that will be the plan anyway.

There is a theory that Cornwell becomes the Lethe character that Kirk and company encounter in the TOS episode “Dagger of the Mind”. Perhaps the Discovery series laid the foundation for her becoming that person?

This is so off-topic, but I’m kinda enjoying this so I thought I’d share. If they’re NOT casting for Mr. Spock, then I’ve as good a chance as anyone. Sorry for the self-serving hijack. It’s so stupid, but it gives the 12 year old me a thrill. (I mean if the the producers wanted to call me, I’m sure I could drag my butt down to Toronto for a reading *eyeroll. Ugh, such hardships.)

I’m SO glad they chose not to kill of Admiral Cornwell, she’s such a brilliant character and she’s really developed well with what little screentime she’s had. She’s simply wonderful, definitely my favourite character in the series and I hope to see a lot more of her in season 2!!!

Captain (future Commodore) Wesley could be the new cap’n. Timeline would be about right.

….and throwing in my 2 cents: would love a T’Pol cameo, Cadet Finnegan and Cadet Riley appearances….and yes, Must Find Prime Lorca!!