Michelle Yeoh’s Mirror Georgiou character exited Star Trek: Discovery dramatically through the Guardian of Forever shortly before the third season wrapped up. However, that may not be the end of the road for the former Terran Emperor and Section 31 agent.
A Terran that deserves a second chance
Michelle Yeoh was a guest on The Pod Directive, the official Star Trek podcast. When asked by co-host Paul F. Tompkins what happens next for Georgiou after going through the Guardian of Forever (which we learned likes to be called “Carl”) the actress talked at length about Georgiou’s journey, starting by addressing the purpose of Georgiou’s first trip through the portal which sent her back to her Terran Empire:
“We all know that the portal is to weigh you and really it is to see if you deserve a second chance. And I think in life that’s what we all hope, that if we do something wrong, do something bad, we hope there is redemption and we will be given a second chance to redeem ourselves. I think that has always been the most interesting part for me, for Georgiou… Emperor Georgiou was learning to understand that you can’t keep killing to stay on top. One day there will be no more people left to kill. And then when Kovich turned around and said to Emperor Georgiou, ‘You know the Terrans have not been heard of in the last 500 years.’ That’s just to say: you have wiped yourself out. And I think that was when Georgiou heard and understood and felt that the only way to go around that is to rule with peace and compassion… When she came out it’s okay. You think you have failed, but you actually haven’t because you did try to make a difference. “
Yeoh’s comment reveals she sees Georgiou’s first trip through the portal as the culmination of a redemption arc for the character, at least in terms of the former Emperor’s outlook. It was in the trying to be a better person that Carl deemed her worthy to send her on her real trip through the portal.
Michelle Yeoh in and Sonequa Martin-Green in “Terra Firma, Part 1”
Until we meet again…
Eventually, Yeoh got to Georgiou’s actual exit from Discovery (in “Terra Firma, Part 2”), where she revealed it wasn’t a final goodbye for her, or the Star Trek producers:
I think when she went through the portal [the second] time, for me it’s like saying “Goodbye, until we meet again.” Because this is Star Trek. Who knows? One day Emperor Georgiou is going to find out that Michael Burnham is like in dire straits or the other way around and something has to be done. I don’t know, but I’m just putting it out there… Carl has said to her, “You have another journey to undertake.” And it’s so obvious you have more things to do. It’s not going to be a smooth ride. It will be bumpy. It will be full of heartaches. It will be full of pain. But I think it’s true. That is life… So I think there’s so much more possibilities for Georgiou. And I know my executive producers and showrunners and writers have a lot more things in store for such an amazing character.
So according to Yeoh, there are still plans for her return to Star Trek, although what that returns looks like is still completely a mystery.
Georgiou and Michael learn Carl is the Guardian of Forever in “Terra Firma, Part 2”
Is the Section 31 show still a thing?
One thing not mentioned at all during this discussion was “Section 31,” the organization Georgiou joined after crossing over from the Mirror Universe. Before season two debuted CBS announced development for a new series which “will expand on Yeoh’s current role as a member of Starfleet’s Section 31 division, a shadow organization within the Federation, on Star Trek: Discovery.”
This Michelle Yeoh-lead Section 31 show was supposed to be the next live-action Star Trek series to arrive after Picard, and was originally planned to go into production in 2020 after the third season of Discovery wrapped. Executive Producer Alex Kurtzman assigned Bo Yeon Kim and Erika Lippoldt as showrunners in 2019, and last summer he was touting the work they and writer Craig Sweeny were doing for the series.
While the pandemic shut things down for film and television for much of 2020, there are now three live-action Star Trek shows in production, including what will be the next series set to debut on Paramount+: Strange New Worlds. The Section 31 project was not mentioned during the February Paramount+ investment day event, although Alex Kurtzman and Paramount+ executive Julie McNamara confirmed with Variety there are still “conversations” about the Yeoh-lead series.
As of now, there is nothing definitive about the Section 31 project. It may still be happening, it may have changed and perhaps no longer has a Section 31 connection, or it could possibly have moved to the back burner as Kurtzman and Paramount+ plan for the next phase of Star Trek on TV, with other projects moving to the forefront. However, even if the Section 31 show doesn’t happen, that doesn’t mean we won’t see Emperor Georgiou return. Her exit through the Guardian means she could show up anywhere or any time. This could allow for Georgiou to appear on any current or future Star Trek show, possibly even for a visit back on Discovery, as indicated by Yeoh herself.
There are many possible journeys for Georgiou
Keep up with the Star Trek Universe on TV here at TrekMovie.com.
Wasn’t Kovich’s whole point that the universes were drifting apart, not that the Terrans were gone? Or maybe not…
Yeah, between that and the comment about the portal existing to weigh people, I think it’s safe to say Yeoh didn’t understand the scripts.
He told her that the empire had collapsed. So, yes her universe is farther away. But Terran’s are also, effectively, gone. And the Guardian did weigh her and her worthiness, so to speak. So I don’t think she was confused at all.
Not confused.
Georgiou was visibly shocked to learn from Kovich that the Federation had outlasted the Terran Empire by a half a millennium.
Georgiou came from a culture that valued not just power and survival but enduring power and survival.
So, accepting that the Federation was the more enduring structure was a major change.
And the Guardian said in the episode that, after the Temporal War, he no longer provided Intertemporal travel on demand, he weighed people first.
No, it isn’t.
Shocking that someone could misunderstand a Discovery script.
It happened with Picard too.
“I think it’s safe to say Yeoh didn’t understand the scripts.”
That comment seems vaguely racist. It’s also inaccurate.
It did indeed weigh Georgiou (morally).
… wait, what?
Check your calendar. It’s 2021. Everything’s racist.
Maybe listen to the podcast? Yeoh admitted she didn’t understand why everyone on set was getting excited to see the Gaurdian of forever again, it had to be explained to her. She readily admits she doesn’t know everything their is to know in Star Trek, give her some slack.
It could be interpreted in different ways. If not drifting apart in distance, drifting apart politically and technologically? In the DS9 timeline, the Terrans were a defeated and subjugated people. Maybe that never rose to dominance again, and the powers in dominance has no interest in the multiverse?
I kind of like the idea of Georgiou quantum leaping into desperate situations throughout all of Star Trek, kind of like a living Dues ex Machina who shows up in the nick of time.
Isn’t that the Nexus?
Not even vaguely.
It could also be like the superhero show DC Legends of Tomorrow. Maybe ad different characters from different times depending on the mission. Harry Mudd maybe?
Yes! I’ve been saying this since the start of season 3, when we met Kovich. The pairing seemed like the perfect starting point for a “Time Keepers” kind of series with an all-star “characters from Trek past” cast. And with alternate realities and timelines, you could easily recast anyone without problems.
Heck, if you can’t get Cronenberg for a series, bring back Captain Braxton, as “Admiral Braxton” who is like the “Charlie” from Charlie’s Angels, who each week gives them a new mission and destination. You could even cast a major actor as Braxton, someone like Tom Hanks (big Trekkie), who appears on a viewscreen at the start of each episode to give them their impossible mission, should they choose to accept it…
You could also add Lucsly and Dulmur from the Department of Temporal Investigations.
You could also add Lucsly and Dulmur from the Department of Temporal Investigations.
That would be sweet. Could also be the way to bring back Prime Lorca.
As I recall the Terran Empire had fallen by DS9’s timeline because of mismanagement by Emperor Spock. The reason they hadn’t been heard from was because the Terrans were no longer a thing by the time of DS9.
Spock attempted to reform the empire. I’m not sure it’s mismanagement unless you’re a Terran. Wait…are you? LOL :)
The Empire collapsed in between TOS and DS9, but the Federation didn’t encounter anyone from the mirror universe for 500 years or so before season 3 of Discovery.
It wasn’t due to mismanagement. It was because Spock tried to transform the Empire into something more like the UFP. In that universe such a move was a death nail. It left the Terran Empire open for being conquered.
I believe the phrase is “death knell.”
Yeah. That’s the auto dictation for you.
“We all know that the portal is to weigh you and really it is to see if you deserve a second chance.”
Er,,,, no. No, it isn’t.
Carl did talk about weighing her. She’s paraphrasing. Cut her some slack.
I think we need to be honest. Yeoh simply has a hard time comprehending tommyrot and poppycock.
In her case this is all true. Watch the episode again.
Rewatch an episode of Discovery? Watching it once is a slog.
Granted, over fifty years, the Guardian has had about fifteen minutes of .dialogue, but yeah, I was scratching my head over that one, too. Get it right, it’s all good. Get it wrong, like McCoy did, your existence ends.
Carl literally said that that was what he was doing.
Who the hell is “Carl” that he gets to be a universal judge? The entire concept of “Carl” and what they did to the Guardian was asinine.
Carl the Guardian of Forever literally said that his gate was abused in the Temporal Cold War such that 1) he relocated to a remote planet and 2) he weighed the worthiness of those who sought to use it.
But go ahead, and insist that it would make sense for a sentient AI to have no growth or development in a millennium, even when misused and exploited.
Thank you. I will go ahead and say that moving the Guardian of Forever all over the universe and having it appear as some old dude and a door was indeed asinine.
And for the record, the temporal cold war affected Archer. As far as Enterprise was concerned, the GoF wasn’t a part of it. Nor is there evidence it was a part of that temproal cold war.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. TCOTEOF was a great episode but it did leave an extremely powerful device at the Federation’s beck and call. Honestly it should have been something that was shoved aside and forgotten as the ramifications of such a thing are just too much. One literally could undo ANYTHING with access to it. Also, the impression was the Guardian was sitting there on that planet for a millennia. If it could just up and move somewhere else, don’t you think it would? Plus, it was obviously designed to show the past. Not be a portal between universes. That was something that the Star Trek Discovery nitwits for some odd reason decided was a thing so they could keep Space Pol Pot around.
I love Carl! GoF before was pretty mundane and bland. Now he has some actual character. And let’s be honest,. it never made any sense for the portal to just let anyone jump through time and change whatever they wanted. Now it makes more sense that he judges people to use his powers to be more respectful of time travel.
And yes, TG47 said it, the Temporal Wars obviously had a big effect on how he operated previously.
Except the Guardian may or not have been a character or a device. It’s entire existence was a riddle. It never made any sense that it could just up and move around at will. And it certainly didn’t make sense that it was there to be judge and jury for its users. It certainly didn’t seem to give a damn when crazy McCoy jumped through and screwed up history.
And from what we can glean it wasn’t even a part of the temporal cold war.
No. I repeat, like most things Secret Hideout touches, what it did to the GoF was asinine.
I understand your point, but let’s be honest, it was always very vague on what it was or how it operated. On my big rewatch I naturally rewatched COTEOF last month and it just doesn’t tell you anything other than it’s very old and its part machine but also conscious. I mean, it’s Star Trek, so we shouldn’t over think these things but yeah. The whole notion of the GOF is really ridiculous on its head. A living entity where you can jump through any part of time and change anything on a whim made no real sense. I still don’t understand how that doesn’t include the GOF itself? Unless we believe it exists outside of space and time itself. Whatever. How is something like this not weaponized by every A-hole species out there??
Now they are trying to explain it all better and indeed it was!
And like it was said, maybe at the time (no pun intended ;)) when McCoy went through it didn’t judge anyone. But as he said, once time caught up to the Temporal War era and there were probably Temporal Agents using it to destroy the past, well he had to change some things. ;)
Maybe it wasn’t part of the Temporal cold war in the 23rd century, but whose to say what happened in the 26th, 27th, 28th centuries and onward? This is why going forward makes writers jobs MUCH easer. ;)
I really like Carl and the GOF. I can see how it may rub some people the wrong way, but it could be fun to see how it’s used again in the future (again, no pun intended ;)). It can set up some really fun time travel episodes beyond what we saw in TOS, TAS and DIS. I think that’s great!
And honestly once they brought that back, it was when I was 100% convinced Q was coming back. If they can bring out this one note entity from a 50 year old episode that literally does nothing but send people through time (and I guess universe now), its no way they can’t bring back something as complex as the Q that they can go MUCH bigger with!
OK. Much of what you said is fair. And got me thinking a little more. Maybe what this comes down to for me is that some things are just better remaining a mystery. Not everything NEEDS an explanation. That’s a thing that people running more modern Treks seem to feel compelled to do. And in most cases it would just better if they resisted the temptation. Even Manny Coto run Season 4 of Enterprise decided they needed to dive into the Klingon appearance. I liked the bulk of what Coto did that season but I feel like that was a waste of two episodes. It was something that just wasn’t needed.
When the Secret Hideout people throw in something from Trek lore like they did with the Guardian I feel like it’s more them attempting to signal to the fans that they “know” about Trek stuff. But then they take that thing and warp it into something that just serves their story and ends up ruining or contradicting the thing they pulled out of mothballs. I really feel like they would be better served coming up with some other means to accomplish their plot need. Perfect example… To get Georgiou back to wherever they needed her to be, use some other sci-fi type of thing. Create some ancient device or some sort of alien wizard or whatever. Just don’t pull out something like the Guardian of Forever that was obviously only capable of dealing with time and space. It just felt like a huge stretch to say it could send people to different realities as well.
I can tell you for a fact that I don’t think there was any time I have EVER thought (or wanted) we would see the GoF again lol. It never crossed my mind once after all of this time until we saw it again in Discovery. And I also agree, I don’t have an issue with the fact it was kept more mysterious. In fact I’ve always said that myself about many species and elements in Star Trek, especially the bigger stuff like the Borg, Q, etc. You can show them, give them more development, but we don’t need to know their origins or how they became to be either. A big reason why they are popular is because their very existence is still a big riddle.
I was more than fine keeping GoF in that one episode from TOS. So we actually agree. I’m just not as bothered about it once they did show it and I just really liked how they did it. It just more ‘realistic’ (I put that in quotes since nothing about the GoF is realistic lol) in how they explained it. Did they have to explain it, of course not. Did it also contradict what we know about it, obviously yes. But when you have such an old and vague plot device like the GoF that has been around literally billions of years (which I didn’t realize was that old until I looked it up on Memory Alpha) then yeah.
But that’s why the whole concept is utterly ridiculous. You have billion year old sentient time portal sitting on a desolate planet that apparently no one knows anything about or once they do find it (like the Enterprise did), don’t care to use it in any real way, for good or bad. The fact it moves around now just makes more logical sense and why it’s not being used by every warp powered species out there. I know when it was written, they were just trying to find a way to shake up the time travel trope and do something more creative. And yes, I don’t anyone remotely thought 50 years on anyone would be making new Star Trek so no one thought that hard about it at the time (like many things in TOS ;)).
But all that said, am I surprised they used it? No, not in the least just like everything else we seen (and will be seeing). And you shouldn’t be either. I mean you see what they have been doing for the last 3 years alone. They are pulling out every fan boy wish list out there. These are the same people who came up with a tribble origin story lol. Let that sink in! Did we need a tribble origin story, uh, no, but we got one just the same. Kurtzman is the same guy who wanted both a Khan and Section 31 TV show (after infamously combing the two in STID). He’s the same guy who brought back Pike and Talos IV. I mean I thought we might see Pike again some day but never Talos IV itself. It’s also why we have multiple 24th century shows now and seeing characters even I never expected to see again (at least played by the original actors) like Picard, Seven, Hugh and on and on. They even found a way to bring Data back just to kill him off again.
That’s why I’m always so shocked when I see people post things like ‘they shouldn’t bring back so and so’ or ‘they shouldn’t do that concept ever again’ or ‘they shouldn’t go back to this era’. Are people NOT paying attention????? Are they really not understanding that in the next decade, literally every previous element of Star Trek that we seen in the last 50 years will show up again in some form or another? There is not one area that won’t be touched again at some point because they are making so many shows in so many different time periods and concepts they can bring whatever they want back now. LDS is basically designed for just this purpose, to relive everything people love about what Star Trek is. And it’s going to be the same with SNW and Picard and Prodigy and so on; just a bit less in your face about it.
If they are wiling to bring back something as dopey as the GoF after 50 years, literally nothing is off limits. They are probably bringing Q back so it will be easier to snap anything they want to use back from Star Trek without doing any real work! BTW, don’t be shocked to see Khan in season 2 of Picard either lol. I might be kidding now, but…
I was actually hoping we would never see the GoF again just because, as I’ve said before, it’s a story problem. With that thing at one’s beck and call one is nearly invincible. That said, I am not surprised Secret Hideout dusted it off, changed it around to fit what they needed from it, and shoehorned it into Star Trek Discovery. See, to me the fact that it moves around doesn’t make sense. Not based on what little we saw of it from TOS. I mean, it seemed to be waiting for a question. If it could move why wouldn’t move to somewhere where it could get a question? No. Everything about it looked like it was indigenous to that planet or the civilization that was once there. It seems reasonable that if it could move it would have. I know it’s fantasy but even fantasy needs some sort of reason. So no. I don’t buy it.
And it makes sense that they would be the same folks that made that AWFUL tribble short. Good gravy what a horrid piece of work that was.
I’m giving Secret Hideout the benefit of the doubt and believe that their intent is NOT to ruin Star Trek. But they seem to be doing everything in their power to. I feel like a fan of a once great ball club that was sold to new owners and hired a bunch of new people to run the team. But try as they might every move they make only makes the team worse. They may be trying hard but they just aren’t any good at their jobs and the team would be better if they just hired an entirely new front office.
Again I agree with you, clearly the thing didn’t move originally. But that made no sense either GIVEN how unprotected it was and basically invited anyone to go through time and change whatever they wanted. As said, the entire idea behind it was just really silly in general. BUT because it was part of a great story (some feel the greatest TOS story) it’s easy to ignore how silly the concept is. But it’s very Star Trek in nature obviously.
But as I also made clear, they are going to bring everything back eventually. I think when Rick Berman ran Trek, there were probably certain things they decided not to touch or at least not really interested in showing again which is why we didn’t get a lot of stuff from TOS until Enterprise showed up. And even then a lot of that was what Manny Coto wanted to do. I can imagine him returning to the GoF for example, I couldn’t imagine anyone before him wanting to do it though.
But Kurtzman has made it clear a long long time ago EVERYTHING is up for a revisit and why we have everything from Talos IV to Q showing up again. No I don’t think they are trying to ruin Star Star lol. But I know how you feel about most of these new shows. I’m certainly not completely onboard about them either as you know, but certainly more positive about them. And I’ve generally liked what they done with a lot old characters and concepts.
The ONLY one I’m very mixed on was Section 31 as you also know. And that’s because they basically broke canon on how it was done and NOT for the better. And yes they obviously broke canon for GoF, BUT again, when you go forward, it makes it easier to accept because we don’t know how evolved in the last 900 years since we seen it, so it’s easier to believe…at least for me.
But yes if they are bringing GoF back, which I DIDN’T ever thought they would do again either, then the things I was pretty convince they will bring back like Q for example will be back in droves. I think every past character and concept is on the table. Everything from Captain Archer to Kirk to even species like the Organians or the Kazon will all show up again eventually. Because he has expanded Trek universe in a way where you can literally include whatever you want in some form. Like Q himself, it’s only a matter of when now.
I liked what they did with the Guardian. The guardian was always little more than a plot contrivance to get the crew back in time. Now it has a bigger role to play, the Guardian is more of an actual character. That anyone would be upset by these kinds of retcons is asinine itself.
Except the Guardian is not a character. It’s a complete mystery. And it works much better being a mystery. And yes, such a thing is a plot device to get McCoy back in time. The least Star Trek Discovery writers could do is come up with their own plot device to get Space Pol Pot back to wherever it is they want her to be rather than make stuff up about an existing Trek feature.
Let’s be honest. The one and only one reason they used the GoF was so fan boys can get giddy about seeing the GoF again. Easier to use some mysterious element from Trek history than make up something new. That actually takes imagination. Can’t have that.
Discovery writers: let’s do something asinine to the Guardian of Forever!
Picard writers about Q: hold my Romulan Ale…
Er… yes. Yes, it is. (In that episode)
She’s speaking of its role in the story thematically, not literal in-universe purpose. The function of the Guardian in the story from a real-world perspective was to serve as the culmination of Georgiou’s redemption arc, finally showing without a shadow of a doubt to both Georgiou and the audience watching that she has truly changed. That’s what she was referring to.
I certainly wouldn’t object to the idea of seeing Georgiou again. I enjoyed Michelle Yeoh’s performance as both Captain and Emperor, a highlight in DIS’s first season for me, so I’ll treat this as (potentially) good news.
Will be interesting to see exactly where/how she pops up again…
I was one of those who was quite intrigued by the idea of a S31 show in general, and also liked the idea of Michelle Yeoh being the lead in her own show.
I think a self-contained mini-series, as mentioned recently on the ‘All Access’ podcast, might be the best option for now. If there’s enough interest then a full series could be commissioned.
Fine. Find another role to bring her back in. Drop Georgiou and drop her quick.
Hell, having her come back as Prime Georgiou would be better than continued use of Space Pol Pot.
Well, they certainly could do that. I do suspect that the showrunners are committed to the character by this point though.
I may be in the minority here (not sure), but I did actually really like what Michelle Yeoh did with the character(s).
It was obvious, pretty much from the opening credits of E1, that she wouldn’t be sticking around. I really liked ‘Prime’ Georgiou though, and totally bought into her as a Starfleet captain. Would have been very happy to see her stick around as the Discovery’s regular captain.
When she returned in the MU, I was happy to see Michelle Yeoh back and once again bought into her take on the character’s villainous counterpart.
To be clear, my appreciation for the character was always more down to the actual performance of Michelle Yeoh than the writing. I was not all that keen on DIS when I first saw it. Took some time to try to reconcile it with the Star Trek I know and love. But I thought Georgiou was a bright spot from the start and so remain keen to see what else they might do with the character.
Will they fully commit to a redemption angle, or will she yet demonstrate her ruthless nature and prove that she’ll never truly fit in with the Federation and its ideals.
But, if you’re not a fan of the character, then I appreciate that there will be little I can say here to change your mind :)
Fair enough. I don’t think the roll is a good fit for Yeoh at all. She doesn’t play it very well and she certainly wasn’t able to play the Snidley Whiplash version of the character. But I’m sure there are some that liked her and I promise you… She is on the road to redemption. At least redemption as we see it on our side. On her side it would be a tragedy.
Michelle Yeoh is awesome! I figure they are retooling the Section 31 idea into a temporal war / alternate universe show (complete with an Enterprise?).
For 20 Quatloo’s, what comes first, Section 31 or Star Trek XIV?
An extra 50 Quatloo’s for when?
No more evil empires please, please bring on some hope for the future…never forget that TOS played even with Vietnam and the Civil rights movement going on…
Can Mirror G. truly redeem herself? Possibly. But she needs to do the work. Well, first read the room and then do the work.
Well, she did help to defeat Control and save all sentient life in the galaxy. I’d say that’s a pretty good start.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend is hardly a reason to think she is redeemed. But I still contend that it is impossible for her to be redeemed in this universe. Her very nature forbids it. She’s a scorpion.
…and we’ve seen plenty of Mirror characters be good. She’s turned the page as far as accepting a different way to live and value life. It was not well-written, but by the end it was obvious she has a clean slate and sees the error of the Terran way, even if she will probably always break the rules in the Prime universe.
So in that regard, I don’t think she’s too different than Garak, Kira, Seven, or early seasons Chakotay in terms of having done horrible things and coming to terms with that.
Sure. Quark on the other side is a good guy. But isn’t that what the mirror in mirror universe means? This is not the same thing as Kira or Seven coming to terms with awful things in their past. This is someone who’s very nature says those things are the morally right thing to do.
…and when exposed to a philosophy different that clearly works, and the reality of the Terran way leading to its downfall, she gets her Mirror Spock moment. The shows have been pretty clear about people from that side being changeable. And it’s not like Soval, T’Pol, O’Brien, Tuvok, Jennifer et al were exact mirror opposites either.
I completely forgot we saw a MU version of Tuvok! Yeah he was cool and logical in both universes. ;)
Well, that’s one of the things that I have not liked about the MU post TOS. Much of it was changed from what the obvious intent of it was.
And besides… Will the scorpion change because it’s in his best interest to not sting the frog? The moral of the story is no.
You mustn’t believe every story you hear from a Russian. ;)
Wasn’t the S31 show put on hold when Covid hit?
I hope the Section 31 show is still happening. I definitely want to see more Georgiou, and it would be cool to really explore the organization.
My God who cares about Section31?
I don’t. Not at all.
I don’t care about Section 31, but I’m interested in seeing a reformed Georgiou having adventures as played by a legendary actress. I’m annoyed with the scripts she got and the sloppy character work that set it all up, but a clean slate and good premise with a new showrunner can do wonders.
That was the problem, not many fans did and they simply listened. If you had to make that show or Pike, it was a no-brainer. It’s not to say it won’t happen, especially since CBS probably plans to make a dozen Trek shows in the next 20 years, but I wouldn’t hold my breath it’s any time soon now.
But maybe they will throw Space Hitler back in SNW, Picard or yes even back to the 32nd century in Discovery (although they specifically said she CAN’T come back, but it’s still Star Trek ;)). If they really want Yeoh back but don’t want to do a full on show, they literally already set it up where she can appear in any time period. Maybe she’ll show up in the Delta quadrant in season 2 of Prodigy!
I totally understand why you might feel that way, but personally some of my favorite DS9 and Enterprise shows are those episodes connected with Section 31. Sometimes Starfleet seems to disavow itself of S31 completely and other times, they are pretty open to using it as they deem appropriate. No matter what I really enjoyed those episodes and I would really like to see where they take Section 31 in the future (or past).
Crazy how Section 31 went from ‘it’s definitely happening’ to ‘eh…not quite yet’ in under a year.
The writing was on the wall though, clearly CBS had planned to do five Trek shows a year, S31 was originally part of that plan but after seeing the huge demand for a Pike show (and seeing the VERY mixed reaction of both Georgiou and S31 in the same season) they decided to go with the Pike show (while keeping the others) and let S31 go.
What’s funny is me and others said I didn’t really see a Pike show happening BECAUSE of all the other shows they already announced going forward, including S31. I just couldn’t see them making four live action shows at once and that it would probably be smart to let S31 be swapped out for Pike if they really wanted to keep to the five show strategy. And it looks like that’s what they did since Kurtzman said they don’t plan to ever go over five shows at once. If and when they make another show, one of the five shows will have to be cancelled first and probably when the S31 will get made, if it ever.
Personally I was excited for a S31 show but a Pike show just made sooo much better sense. Maybe it will happen in the future, but it’s probably years down the line now. And Kurtzman listens to the fanbase. He saw the wind was changing between that show and the massive appeal the Pike show had.
It’s literally the same reason we started out with a prequel show that jumped 900 years into the future, because most of the fans wasn’t happy with DIS being a prequel (or didn’t really fit as one). It’s also why we now have three post-Nemesis shows today. Four if you count Discovery now. Three years ago, people wondered if we would even get one post-Nemesis show or something beyond the 24th century and look where we are? In just three years.
So we’ll see but my guess is they do seem to really lean in of what fandom wants and what it doesn’t want. The shows really do seem to represent that now from exploring the 24th again to Pike and jumping into the advanced future and feeling very diverse at the same time. And my guess is we’ll still see S31 in some form on some of these shows again (probably SNW first), but the TV show seems far in the distance now.
It’s also likely what these writers want as well. Strange New Worlds surely stems from positive fan response to bringing back Pike and the familiarity with Spock and the Enterprise, so that made it an unexpected option to jump the line. But other than that, most writers will say that Trek continuity and canon is a blessing and a curse, so being able to be free of adhering to huge chunks of it is likely something most of the writers are relieved about. Prequels were more of a novelty, and even Discovery was meant to be an anthology, apparently.
As for a Georgiou show, practically speaking, there’s really not a scheduling need for it on Paramount+ if they aren’t going to overlap series. Now that pandemic protocols are calming down, they are on track to be able to have a new Trek show running every week all year long, starting with season 2 of Lower Decks. Until the first show ends (they’ve hinted they expect that to be Picard), this cycle means they don’t have to produce another costly show to be able to maintain a steady churn now.
Oh yeah I agree. It’s obvious the entire reason Discovery was thrown so far into the future is because they got tired of trying to adhere to 50 year old canon and not being able to do the kinds of things they wanted in the 23rd century or a pre-TOS world. That’s what Fuller envisioned, but once he was gone and no one really knew what to do with the show, it made sense putting it in a post-Nemesis setting where now they can basically do what they want. The show should’ve been a post-Nemesis show on day one (and would’ve made a lot of fans much more happy about it). Now they can bring whoever they want at any time.
Writers want to have the freedom to add any story, tech or character they want and it’s just really hard to do that in that era. I mean they failed miserably at it lol. Obviously the Pike show will have the same drawbacks but the difference being they can now make it a more TOS prequel and it’s probably exciting to have those characters back and give them new arcs. But the fact the other four shows are all post-Nemesis tells you they really want to go forward again like a lot of us fans have been begging for. I remember a former member here before they were banned said that Kurtzman would never even do shows outside of the 23rd century again because that’s where Star Trek truly belongs….lol. Uh huh. Fandom wants to see Trek grow and expand to new horizons like TNG did and thankfully Kurtzman understands that. Probably in more ways than us fans do.
Your last paragraph makes it clear why I don’t think a S31 show will come any time soon now, if ever. They have five shows now and even if all of them only did 10 episodes a season that’s still 50 weeks of Star Trek a year. This year was probably suppose to have four shows on and next year would’ve been five. And since all these shows are pretty new minus Discovery, they can go on for years. Akiva Goldsman even said recently they expect Picard to go five seasons now, it’s probably just up to Stewart. Prodigy already has two seasons confirmed like LDS and I think DIS will probably go at least to season 5 as well. So it could be years before any of these shows leave the airwaves, especially since they all seem to take a full year between seasons.
But as said it doesn’t mean we have to wait that long to see S31 or Yeoh of course. But it’ll probably be on one of the current shows. I would be curious to see her land on Picard since I would like to see what happened with S31 in the era post-Sloan/Dominion era. But I would rather just have Sloan back. ;)
I suppose we should allow for the possibility that the show has been delayed because of Yeoh’s schedule as well, noting she’d been filming with Marvel and the Avatar sequels recently.
I disagree. The reason the show was moved was not because it was a prequel. Fans can live with that even if it is not a time frame they are in love with. The show was moved because it wasn’t well received. It was badly written with bad plots and the production design looked NOTHING like the era it was supposed to be in. It didn’t even evoke the TOS era feel. It looked and felt like a reboot that they kept saying wasn’t a reboot. This inconsistency was what led to the decision to move them to the far future. Trust me… Had the show been received better by the public it would still be in the 23rd century.
Well that too. ;)
But I did say in that same post, not just because it was a prequel, but because it just did a piss-poor job of lining up to TOS. I think that’s more the issue than just being a prequel as well.
As I have pointed out in the past, I wasn’t happy DIS was a prequel but I actually got over that part pretty fast and accepted it as one. But how they did it and not really feeling much like TOS in either look or style, especially in the first season is what created the problem for many like me and you.
So they realized that and just moved it! And a GREAT idea at that! But as said, I just don’t think the writers and producers themselves were in love with the prequel idea or we wouldn’t have 4 Trek shows that are all post-Nemesis shows in three years. They clearly want to have more freedom and expand Trek beyond just more TOS stuff thankfully.
Hopefully SNW will just do it better or just how they should’ve done it in the beginning with Discovery. We’ll see!
Section 31 show? lolololololol!!! Sloan or bust!
I did like Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon.
I do like the idea of seeing Sloan again, but then I also miss Garak, Quark, Rom, Kira, Dax, Bashir, and don’t even get me started on Sisko or Odo.
I honestly don’t know what Secret Hideout sees in the Space Hitler character that they think she has earned her own Trek series. She is a throwback to the worst decision ever made in Trek history. Why keep the character around? If they like the actress then find a DIFFERENT role for her. She is not locked into the part she has already played. She’s an actor. She can play different parts.
Your hatred for everything new Trek, and in particular Yeoh and the S31 concept either needs to be taken down a notch, or motivate you to stop watching. It’s not for you. You don’t like it. We get it. But it’s not going anywhere, clearly. The studio likes the actress and the concept. Constantly throwing hatred at it every time it’s mentioned in the news isn’t going to change that. Move on.
I do not hate everything new Trek. I actually like the KU films. Less so STID but Beyond made up for it.
It’s the new streaming shows that aren’t any good. If they produce something praiseworthy I will certainly be there to cheer. It just hasn’t happened yet. And where do you get off saying I “hate” Michelle Yeoh? That’s quite the leap. I said nothing of the sort nor did I infer it. And my post also had nothing to do with the Section 31 concept at all. Your overreaction to my post is what needs to be taken down a notch. Who are you to tell me to stop being a fan? You don’t get that privilege.
To be clear, I think your criticism is healthy, but often times it’s the way you frame it. A comment like “You know, I like Yeoh, I would love to see her as a different character though! Maybe she can play the prime Georgiou from another timeline!” would be welcome.
Personally, I come to forums like this for a good time and fun discussion, but sometimes fans take this stuff way too seriously, and get so worked up over a series, actor, or even producer they don’t like, and the comments become all about what they hate rather than what they love.
And if you ask me, these kinds of sites should be about discussing what we love. If you want to talk about what you hate about Trek, lots of forums for that online! Search Geekrotic or NerdRage on youtube.
Well, you can’t control other people and ML31 gets to say what ML31 wants to say, not what you want him/her to say. But I think you probably already know that.
I thought the criticism was pretty reasonable because I think that the Section 31 idea was a half-baked mistake. I found Section 31 interesting 20 years ago within its original scope. Even more so because it was a bombshell for fans at the time. A truly top secret organization really had been exposed for the first time — because nobody had thought it up yet. But it’s been abused and misused since to the point that it really doesn’t work because it doesn’t make sense anymore. Now, it’s a tip-top secret organization that everyone knows about and that only the producers seem to be interested in but don’t seem to understand.
It’s called “literary criticism.” You’re allowed to pan works of literature, including film and television. And the Mirror Georgiou character deserves most of it. If they liked Michelle Yeoh so much (and there’s good reason to), they should never have killed off Captain Philippa Georgiou in the first place; she had a compelling take on the captaincy.
I have said a number of times (including this very thread) that if they really like Yeoh that much then come up with a different character for her to play. That it doesn’t HAVE to be Georgiou.
Sorry the negative stuff bugs you so much. But it doesn’t bother me when people get on here and say “such and such show sucks!” I’d just like for the writer to explain WHY such and such show sucks. In my post I gave one of the many reasons I have for my opinion. What is wrong with that?
The same actor has played different Trek characters plenty of times before. It’s certainly possible.
I wish the idea of an Emperor Georgiou show or return would just be abandoned. She was a horrible character
Exactly how I feel. No idea why they keep clinging on to the character and section 31 show – it all sounded terrible to me from the get go.
Yeah no one seems all that excited about the show and probably why it’s now booted.
And I think we got S31 the way it was done in DS9 and ENT maybe more would be interested in it.
I’m actually super intrigued after we finally got to see Discovery S3.
The Covid-related delay really undermined their opportunity to move the audience towards seeing where Georgiou evolves to next.
I hope that TPTB find a suitable way to show us her next step.
I’m still very much hoping that she will appear in the new movie and tie the Prime and Kelvin universes together (not to mention the MU).
Yeah I got really excited about it too once we saw where DIS landed and the possibilities opened up more. People like me was begging that if they did a S31 show, it would stay in the 32nd century like DIS did. Because it opens up every crazy possibility now. I was disappointed when she left (not DIS, just the 32nd century ;)) but since we don’t know when or where she left to, then it keeps the possibilities open to a lot of cool ideas. Maybe she just went to the 29th century. Maybe she’s now helping to stop the Temporal wars….just in the past. I say that very relatively. ;)
So you’re right, the door is wide open now. But if she went back to the 23rd century to do the same thing we saw her doing in Discovery, then ZZZZZzzzzzzzz. Please set it in another time period at least.
I really wouldn’t mind a show with Yeoh and Kovich with a sort of “Section 31 Time Keepers” premise: ala Captain Braxton, they travel to different time periods and even timelines, to fix problems.
This oddly enough is the premise of the new Marvel LOKI show. For Trek, you could make the main cast a crew comprised of classic Trek characters from different timelines that they’ve eliminated but “saved” to join their team: Spock, Bashir, Tuvok, Yar, whoever you wanted, it wouldn’t matter, and you could even recast them younger with new actors and it would make perfect sense because they’re all from different timelines and alternate realities.
Peck was good, let him be in two shows as two different Spocks!
Anthony, do you have any inside information that Section 31 as a series is gone? You seem very convinced (and I know you have your sources), but Akiva was recently interviewed and said he thinks it is still up… I heard Michelle’s interview, and “read” as further confirmation of that, rather than a new plan.
The responsible ViacomCBS exec has said publicly, and quite unequivocally, that Paramount+ will not be adding a new Star Trek live-action series until one of the currently produced ones ends.
So, the earliest window would be for a Georgiou focused show to premiere once Picard wraps.
Notably, this means that there will not be 52 weeks of new live action Trek per year. With Discovery, Picard and SNW, they are only producing a total of 33 episodes per season.
The issue seems to be that the strategy of having a menu of offering to draw in different types of audiences hasn’t been borne out by the company’s streaming data. The exec said that all the Star Trek viewers watch all the shows. So they sound like they are trying to add other things that Trek viewers watch — which turns out to be Avatar the last Render and Legends of Korra.
If true the more reasonable conclusion is that the shows really aren’t that different so far. SNW looks like it might be but that remains to be seen.
If they are abandoning the concept I find that strategy odd because they never gave it a shot to work to begin with.
Yes, it is unequivocal that S31 is in the backburner. But waiting for its time in line is not the same as cancelled. Let’s face it: it would be really crazy to write out Michelle Yeoh from Discovery, setting up a clear follow-up for her (written by the people who were attached as showrunners for the new show) and then not have a new show for her. Of course, these things happen. But the STU under Kurtzman has been notably smooth in its plans… the only thing that fell apart so far and I think it will never happen (sadly) is the Khan miniseries, by Nick Meyer. But to let Yeoh’s international appeal go for no reason makes no sense at all. And Yeoh sounds very convinced that she will be back in Trek…
I’ll watch it but I suspect more interest is directed at SNW. Especially merchandising. Anson Mount is on record saying that he realizes the Enterprise is the star of the show. Considering how expensive Trek is to produce? The $$ is being spent on the Enterprise crew. I wouldn’t be surprised if Georgiou shows up from time to time on SNW or gets a 90 minute movie, here and there.