Recap/Review: ‘Star Trek: Strange New Worlds’ Engages Hijinks In “Spock Amok”

“Spock Amok”

Star Trek: Strange New Worlds Season 1, Episode 5 – Debuted Thursday, June 2, 2022
Written by: Henry Alonso Myers & Robin Wasserman
Directed by Rachel Leiterman

Strange New Worlds pivots again with a lighter episode focusing on some character fun.

 

WARNING: Spoilers below!

RECAP

“We will see through each other’s eyes.”

After the beating the ship took last week in the fight with the Gorn, the Enterprise is back at Starbase One and the crew is getting some much-needed shore leave. But Spock’s mind is restless, including a Koon-ut-kal-if-fee nightmare where T’Pring sets his human and Vulcan sides to ritual combat. Subtle. His betrothed is actually visiting the Starbase on business of her own bringing in Vulcan fugitives and his dream proves prescient as she immediately disses his quarters as “very human.” No one does passive-aggressive like a Vulcan. She wants to pick things up where they left off in the series opener when Captain Chris abruptly called Spock away from Vulcan. “It was your duty that interrupted us.” See, there it is again. And she isn’t happy to learn Spock has to rush off to help Pike again, but he promises to be home in time for dinner.

Admiral April is back to task Pike with picking up negotiations with the R’Ongovian Protectorate, a species who can offer safe passage through the Beta Quadrant, but there is a danger they could hook up with the Klingons or Romulans instead. Initial talks with a Tellarite admiral ended in argument but Captain Vasso is immediately taken with Pike’s homespun charm and restarts talks right then and there. This delays Spock, finding an irritable T’Pring staring at the cold dinner before storming off with one more “too human” comment. After getting a little advice from Chapel, Spock brings his betrothed back to show he is committed to their Vulcan relationship by suggesting they partake in the ancient ritual of soul sharing. But all the candles, bells, and Vulcanian worked too well… “We have apparently switched bodies.” Uh oh. As Spock and T’Pring run through all the Vulcan rituals to try to reverse it, Captain Pike shows up and they agree “hijinks are the most logical course of action.”

“I’m your backup.”

Christine actually gave Spock that advice while she was out on a date with her latest boy toy, but hot Lt. Dever was actually more interested in talking about their relationship so she bailed on him to (literally) smack some sense into her Vulcan friend. Chapel also had some backup with Ortegas who is apparently her wingwoman, ready to fake a crisis to get her out of any bad dates. With everyone off resting and relaxing–including Dr. M’Benga and his silly fishing hat–La’an and Una are content to have a staycation of happily engaging in mundane duties, bristling after learning the crew has given Number One the nickname “Where fun goes to die.”

They get a chance to prove they are fun by personally handling a security situation at an airlock, only to find two frightened ensigns trying to take an unauthorized spacewalk. After playing good cop/bad cop (La’an got to be bad) they squeeze the ensigns to reveal they were working on something called “Enterprise Bingo.” La’an sorts out this is a game lower ranks play involving a series of pranks, and so the pair decide to try out this thing called fun to see what it’s all about. But after checking off a few items they aren’t seeing the point, realizing if they really want to do it right, they are going to have to break some rules… all in an effort to better understand the crew, of course.

“Who doesn’t love hijinks”

When Pike reveals the aliens want to talk to Spock, the Vulcan couple comes clean about the body swap. After some debate, it is agreed T’Pring will help. S’Pring starts off well with the aliens, explaining the logic of aligning with the Federation but starts to waver after the discussion turns to cultural homogenization. Pike steps in communicating to both T’Pring and the R’Ongovianians that Spock’s sacrifice represents “everything that is great about Starfleet.” And when T’Pring is needed to negotiate with a fugitive, Spock decides to step in as her after trying to demure with “I am not feeling myself” (we see what you did there). He again seeks out help from Christine looking for a medical solution, but that will take time, so she joins him to talk to this renegade Vulcan Barjan T’Or who immediately starts dissing Spock and humans, so T’Pock finds his inner homosapien and knocks the jerk out.

Back from fishing, M’Benga is delighted to try out some new goo to assist with the Katric transfer, bridging “the gap between medicine and something else.” It’s painful but it works, and Spock lets Christine know how much her help meant to him before returning to T’Pring where the pair use their newfound understanding to get even closer… if you know what I mean. As for those aliens, in one final chat Pike tries a new tactic and offers up all the reasons why the R’Ongovian Protectorate actually shouldn’t trust the Federation. April is aghast but the captain’s hunch is proven right. These guys aren’t mimics, they are the ultimate empathizers, and Pike showed he understood them. The aliens celebrate the alliance by flying the Federation flag on their beautiful lightship, which sailed right by La’an and Una having fun breaking the rules on a space walk across Enterprise to “sign the scorch,” which turns out to be the oldest panel on the ship’s hull. Things wrap up with Ortegas and Chapel sharing a drink, with Christine pondering if the right guy for her is out there somewhere.

ANALYSIS

Fun will now commence

In the fine tradition of a Star Trek shore leave episode “Spock Amok” is nice bit of fun, and a nice break after last week’s serious and deadly episode. With a strong theme of compassion and understanding, the episode leaned into the serialized character threads it has been building over the previous episodes, with a nice tidy sci-fi plot that helped glue it together and dovetailed with the same theme with a very Star Trek solution.

“Spock Amok” was designed to be a comedic episode and so, importantly, it was actually funny. The Spock/T’Pring bodyswap provided a lot of the humor, but thankfully the show didn’t overindulge in this, smartly having the pair reveal the truth to trusted people instead of extending the “hijinks” at the cost of character credibility. Ethan Peck was particularly impressive playing multiple versions of Spock, showing comedic timing with the character growth. Others also showed they can bring the funny including Anson Mount’s Pike dealing with the Vulcan hijinks, Rebecca Romijn and Christina Chong for the La’an/Una funtime adventure, and Babs Olusanmokun even got in some good moments… plus the hilarious hat. And of course, Melissa Navia is always strong with the quick quip. If anything, the episode could have gone further with the comedy, getting the hijinks a bit earlier after a lot of dry setup for almost half the episode. And it was unfortunate they really didn’t find anything for Uhura to do, with Celia Rose Gooding just tagging along with Pike for the ride.

All of this fun was greatly helped by composer Nami Melumad who indulged herself with lighter motifs that match the sitcom-style moments. And of course, she truly had fun with the “Amok Time” opening where she got to bring in Gerald Fried’s classic fight music. While the show continues to stretch elements of canon, including how familiar everyone now is with T’Pring, there was also plenty of love shown for Vulcan lore, including “Amok Time,” with amazing costumes, props, sets, and visual effects that combined the look of the original show and the TOS era movies.

Final thoughts

“Amok Time” was simply fun, but this light-hearted romp also was able to build on the characters who are at the heart of this series. And this episode showed how the variety pack format of the series can work well, with not only new aliens every week, but new styles and tones. Unlike the other new live-action Trek series, Strange New Worlds is best viewed weekly, and this changeup in tones might actually be jarring in a binge-watch. But with just five episodes, Strange New Worlds has the strongest beginnings of the three live-action new Star Trek series, and we are only halfway through season one.

Random bits

  • In addition to being a twist on the Vulcan-themed TOS episode “Amok Time,” the title could also be referencing the classic 1953 Bugs Bunny/Daffy Duck cartoon “Duck Amuck.”
  • This is the second Strange New Worlds writing credit for executive producer/co-showrunner Henry Alonso Myers and the first for co-producer Robin Wasserman.
  • This is the first Star Trek credit for director Rachel Leiterman who has worked as a director and assistant director for over three decades, including Ron Moore’s Battlestar Galactica.
  • Bruce Horak’s Hemmer does not appear.
  • The Stardate was 2314.4.
  • Pike wore a tunic similar to Kirk’s green wraparound tunic from TOS.
  • Starbase One was described as one of the “oldest and most venerated” stations, and it has been “newly repaired since the Klingon War. The Discovery episode “The War Without, The War Within” showed how the station had been occupied by the Klingons during the war.
  • La’an said having alone time on the Enterprise was “like Christmas,” a rare mention of the holiday on Star Trek. Later the USS Enterprise will include a Christmas party (TOS”Dagger of the Mind”)
  • Ensign Zier was a Bolian, a Federation race introduced on Star Trek: The Next Generation, but they have been mentioned before on Enterprise and Discovery.
  • As their punishment, the ensigns were assigned to Kyle and “micro-cleaning” the transporter pads, and they were scared, saying Kyle was “mean,” so apparently he has a dark side. Tuvok once assigned some troublesome crew a similar task in the Voyager episode “Learning Curve.”
  • Cadet Uhura and Lt. Ortegas talked about Enterprise Bingo in episode 2.
  • The rules of Enterprise Bingo are to complete 10 items from a potential list and to not get caught. The ones shown by La’an were:
    • Use the transporter to reflavor gum
    • Phaser stun duel
    • Turbolift two floor shout challenge
    • Set the Universal Translator to Andorian
    • Gravity Boot change challenge
    • Medical Tricorder Challenge: Vulcan Marsupial
    • Food Replicator Challenge: Duran Fruit
    • Sneak a Tribble into the transporter buffer
    • Sit in the captain’s chair
    • Sign the scorch
  • BTW, if it is just a list, it really isn’t bingo.
  • M’Benga mentioned he spent time studying Vulcan medicine, which will be used again in the TOS episode “A Private Little War,” when he treats Spock after getting shot.
  • Spock talked to Chapel about his pet Sehlat I-Chaya, introduced in Star Trek: The Animated Series.
  • Chapel revealed she had a pet dog named Milo, a Malamute.
  • Christine dated a “gal on Argelius II,” a planet the Enterprise will visit later in the TOS episode “Wolf in the Fold.”
  • Barjan T’or was responsible for an uprising on Kepler-22b, which is a real exoplanet described to be like Vulcan.
  • In the park, Barjan T’or played Three-dimensional chess, introduced in the second Star Trek pilot, played by Spock and Kirk.

More to come

Every Friday, the TrekMovie.com All Access Star Trek Podcast covers the latest news in the Star Trek Universe and discusses the latest episode. The podcast is available on Apple PodcastsSpotifyPocket CastsStitcher and is part of the TrekMovie Podcast Network.

New episodes of Star Trek: Strange New Worlds debut on Thursdays exclusively on Paramount+ in the U.S., Latin America, Australia and the Nordics. The series airs on Bell Media’s CTV Sci-Fi Channel and streams on Crave in Canada. In New Zealand, it is available on TVNZ, and in India on Voot SelectStrange New Worlds will arrive via Paramount+ in select countries in Europe when the service launches later this year, starting with the UK and Ireland in June.


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This episode was a gosh darn delight. I was grinning the entire time, and this is definitely my favorite episode of the new shows. Body swaps! Dream sequences! Alien negotiations! Hijinks! So many hijinks! I’ve always believed Star Trek is at its best when it embraces the campy, ridiculous, delightfully dumb side of itself. This episode turns the fun to warp 10 while driving a huge amount of character development. Let’s look at this episode piece by piece:

The episode opens with a dream sequence, where Vulcan!Spock and Human!Spock are forced to engage in kal-if-fee. It’s about as subtle as a hammer (which Chapel later notes), but it’s campy, fun, and gets at the heart of Spock’s struggle. 

The Enterprise has returned to Starbase 1 for repairs, giving the crew some much needed free time while Pike negotiates with an enigmatic alien race for rights to cross their territory. After meeting with Pike, the aliens decide they will only negotiate with Spock, but…

After a ritual designed to help Spock and T’Pring better understand each other, they…accidentally swap bodies. I LOVE IT! Freaky Friday in my Trek please! Thus, T’Pring is forced to negotiate with the aliens while pretending to be Spock, and Spock must deal with a criminal while pretending to be T’Pring. Pike’s face when he was told of this was an absolute hoot. I loved every second of it. 

Meanwhile, the rest of the crew enjoys their down time, with so much character development. Seriously, just the sequence of Chapel, M’Benga, and Ortega getting ready and beaming down had more character development than all 4 seasons of Discovery combined. We see Chapel deal with avoiding a relationship while developing a crush on Spock, Ortegas telling us she’s been hit with Vulcan lirpas (PLEASE give us more details!), and M’Benga go fly fishing. 

While the crew go have fun, La’an and Una catch two ensigns playing “Enterprise bingo”, which then they decide they need to play, since apparently the crew call Una “where fun goes to die”. We see a really great female friendship here, and their interrogation of the ensigns was extremely entertaining. The final scene of them “signing the scorch” was really touching. 

At the end of the day, the aliens agree to ally with the Federation, Spock and T’Pring return to their own bodies, better understanding each other, and Una & La’an have some fun of their own. Like so much of the best Trek, much of the plot is absolute nonsense, and that’s what makes it great. 

Some final thoughts:
SNW understands something Discovery and Picard don’t: you have to follow up high stakes with low stakes. You can’t be at warp 10 all the time. You have to give the characters some down time to breathe and develop like real people. One episode of characters going about their lives (even in absurd ways) is worth so much more in development than ten episodes of going all out saving all sentient life in the galaxy. You have to have fun! Don’t take yourself too seriously! Star Trek is inherently ridiculous, and you have to embrace that sometimes! This episode will be at the top of my rewatch list.  

10/10

I heartly agree, I don’t post on this board very often, but I think you got one of the keys of star trek. Even if its not a comedy episode old Rodenberry and Berman Trek had enough episodes of discovery, mystery solving, and light heartedness to round out the “every body’s going to parish if we don’t figure this out in 45 minutes” plots that come along as well.

You’re thinking of Gene Coon, Rodenberry really disliked the comedy – especially the chuckles at the end of the episodes. Thank god for Mr. Coon!

Really? Is that why “The Cage,” which serves as the pilot not only for TOS but (sort of) for this show as well, concludes with precisely that kind of humorous byplay between the characters? The kind of ending that was standard for TV shows, of all genres, for decades?

David Gerrold reported of his one interaction with Roddenberry at the time that he was very complimentary towards the script for “The Trouble With Tribbles” (if anyone had his doubts about the concept it was Bob Justman). And if he had his differences with Gene Coon over “A Piece of the Action” and “I, Mudd” — well, he was wrong about the first and spot-on regarding the second.

He may have been putting an early good spin on things. In 2017, on the comicbook.com website (I assume the ‘working with” part relates to TNG):

David Gerrold wrote the script for “The Trouble with Tribbles.” He recalls working with Star Trek‘s creator.
“Gene Roddenberry had no sense of humor and working with him was a joyless exercise,” Gerrold says.
Gerrold was 23 at the time and still in college. “The Trouble with Tribbles” was his first professional sale. He has since gone on to become an award-winning science fiction author.
Gerrold recalls, “My original conception was, ‘Aliens are always scary. What if they’re cute but we don’t realize they’re dangerous? What if you had white mice or gerbils that got onto the Enterprise and got out of control?’
“My attitude was that it would be whimsical but that we would have a serious threat.”
Gerrold credits producer Gene L. Coon with saving the now classic episode.
“He knew you had to balance gravitas with lightheartedness—that you can’t save the galaxy every week,” Gerrold says. “Roddenberry never understood that.”

Well, in his book about the making of the episode (which I thought excellent), Gerrold states that he met Gene Roddenberry after “Tribbles” had aired, and only realized who it was after Roddenberry paid his mild compliment and closed his office door behind him. “The Trouble With Tribbles” book goes into extensive detail about his interactions with Gene Coon, who basically served as his mentor/tormentor on the project. Never once does he state that Roddenberry had any input or opinion on the script whatsoever. (All of the negativity in fact comes from Bob Justman, who never changed his mind about the episode, though he did admire Gerrold’s “Blood and Fire” script for TNG.) So the story he tells in his own book in 1973 is entirely different than the one he chose to tell in an interview in 2017. Either way, that’s not “spin.” That’s “lying.”

(I worked with Gerrold on a never-released episode of “New Voyages” back in 2009, and while I’ll always admire “Tribbles” and a fair amount of his fiction, I can state for a fact that he’s not what I’d call a very nice person. Or a very good director, not that it matters.)

That tribbles book was the first book I ever bought on STAR TREK, before I had even seen half the episodes (and probably a year before I even saw TRIBBLES), so I have inhaled it repeatedly down through the years. I assume Gerrold got to know GR better during all those conventions before TNG — I assume he only interacted with Fontana on TAS — so his views on GR had to have kept evolving.

But as one of the public faces of TREK, especially in the role of STARLOG correspondent in the late 70s/early80s, Gerrold definitely seemed to put a good face on most aspects for quite some time. I mean, even his TNG columns didn’t really hint at what was going on (though I still believe his throwaway comment about how somebody could do a story about Data on trial over his status must have clicked with Melinda Snodgrass), and his account there about why he was leaving (to produce his own series, called TRACKERS if I’m not mistaken, though I’ve never seen anything else about it, making it seem about as vaporwareish as D.C.’s THE WINDS OF SPACE) was clearly hogwash. I don’t think he even tried to clear the air and state grievances publicly till a year or so later. So I guess there’s plenty of evidence for lying in the historical record.

I’m definitely of two minds about Gerrold. I like a little bit of his fiction a lot, but not most of it (gave up on the Chtorr during book 2 I think.) I absolutely adore YESTERDAY’S CHILDREN (the longer version, the one that came out in 1980) and have wanted to make a film of it my whole adult life, and I think there’s an untrek darkness there that hints at some propensity for being an ass, possibly even for the fun of it. The STAR WOLF books are kind of YESTERDAY’S CHILDREN Revision III, and while I enjoyed the first one, they went south fast. And to me they weren’t aiming as high, either.

But by and large I’ve liked his essay work (like Ellison, I think they’re both better with nonfic, though Harlan is magnitudes more interesting), even when disagreeing with it. It’s only been since around the DR SEUSS thing that he has seemed to be really ‘off’ in some way, and I’ve pretty much tuned him out since (until looking up that quote I introduced above.)

What was the episode of New Voyages?

Mr. Coon had a much longer CV as a versatile and accomplished writer than anything else. He frequently did last-minute re-writes of the Roddenberry re-writes in the middle of the night. I think that’s pretty well known… isn’t it?

What I heard from two writers that were taking meetings for stories and teleplays during summer between season 1 and season 2 is that there was no small amount of tension over canceling the show from DesiLu and NBC and that if it wasn’t for Mr. Coon taking the production reigns in season 2 (and lightening the scripts and developing the characters and their relationships) there wouldn’t have been a season 3 and we could easily be watching about 8, “never aired episodes” from season 2 on blu-ray.

From what they told me, Mr. Roddenberry was fairly loose with his tongue about problems with network notes, and Mr. Coon specifically, while in meetings with writers he saw as his contemporaries. That’s very sad, but television especially, is really good at making creative people turn into paranoid, insecure jackasses – thus Gene Roddenberry getting paid every time Alexander Courage’s theme plays… it’s that passive aggressive BS.

That said, Mr. Ellison made it ten times worse because he was telling anyone in ear shot, before his script even left development, what a hack Gene Roddenberry was – especially to other Sci-Fi writers that were turning in material for development – and Ellison never stopped.

It’s a horrible business like that and when you’re in a top position on a show there’s no one to cheer you on – just actors and other writers who lie for a living…

Even if Coon hadn’t done anything for GR except rewrite THE QUESTOR TAPES (pretty much his last bit of business prior to dying), I’d be unyielding in my admiration.

The last stuff with John Vernon’s character just seems so totally and utterly Coon’s work, at least as I see it reflected in one of his BONANZAs and most of TREK in his time, and I can’t put the DVD-R in without jumping right to the end and watching that part again (in face, I almost never watch the whole movie, I just watch the John Vernon parts, esp the end. As a kid I wanted the wide matte shot of Questor getting de-bombed made into a blacklight poster.)

I think the thing to keep in mind with Coon’s ‘lightening’ is that it didn’t often play like lightening for lightening’s sake. It usually grew out of character, or enhanced character somewhat. And some of those end moments were NOT humorous, and it was right for them to not go that route. (does anybody know who actually wrote the end lines in A PRIVATE LITTLE WAR? Shoot, even CATSPAW doesn’t end with a chuckle, but with a reminder of the PTS death.) We still have the incongruity of a funny end on THE APPLE after, what, four security guys buying it, but I haven’t watched that this century and probably won’t ever again, so I only bring that up to pre-empt somebody else doing so.

That’s fake news. There was plenty of ‘smart’ levity in the first Trek episodes, before Coon joined the staff.

There was levity, but not much of it was smart or even in-character. ENEMY WITHIN much?

And that’s during the period when GR was rewriting all the scripts and doing the final passes on them (which must have really helped push Black towards an early exit, even before GR did what he did to Black’s version of THE MENAGERIE … I’ve read part 2 — and only part 2 — of Black’s version, and I find it a ton better than what aired, and think it would have been one of the most important Kirk stories ever, and I can even imagine that Harve Bennett might have followed up on it during the 80s.)

That’s super interesting kmart.

I’ve always disliked Menagerie. Something about the way the second part played out on the Enterprise was off-putting and unengaging at the same time.

Now, I was a primary grader during the first run, but it’s never really got better for me.

On the other hand, from the first cobbled together VHS tape of The Cage that I saw in the 80s, I’ve loved The Cage. That content was solid, but the parts that were left out of Menagerie lost something in terms of selling Pike.

Pike and Spock’s relationship in Discovery and SNW is helping us understand why Spock would do what he did in Menagerie, but still I find it skippable.

Black’s version (and I stress, have only read part two, so I don’t know how much differed there) basically crammed most of the aired ep into the first three acts and had an act IV that revolved around Kirk having to make a decision that was pretty much near Sisko-level in terms of dishonesty (when the latter got the Roms into the Dom war.) In reading it the first (and second) time, I actually teared up, because while I agreed emotionally with Kirk’s decision, I knew it was the wrong call — almost like if Kirk had saved Edith, and with implications at least as grave.

It made me reevaluate Black; while he always had a good rep as a writer, I wasn’t all that sure I agreed, based on the limited amount of stuff I had seen of his (except for the music, SHAFT, which he had a hand in, has never spoken to me, even though I try to rewatch it every decade or so … oddly enough, the Sam Jackson version DOES work for me, and I rewatch that at least every couple years or so … probably because Jeffrey Wright so tears things up as Peoples Hernandez — always have in mind the idea of a joke commercial for the guy … Peoples Hernandez, the people’s lawyer.)

I wonder if limiting the emphasis on Kirk in favor of Spock was GR’s call, and if so, does that mean it was a call made before Spock hit so big with viewers? The stuff that I find so compelling is not in any way FXy or pricey.

I gotta say, if I were Shatner and saw my part change so drastically from one draft to the next, I would be massively P.O.’d. Then again, I don’t think it was so much a matter of quantity of lines, but more about the net result, which is, again, Kirk has a decision to make.

I don’t know if anybody sells the script (would love to see part one), but I think it is called FROM THE FIRST TO THE LAST.

Now that is interesting kmart.

Without that last scene, even at 7, it seems that Spock has done something hugely unjustified within military law and experienced no consequences.

Instead of glossing it over, it would have been a great episode if Kirk’s difficult choice) seal the records or to lose a great first officer and friend) was presented for those stakes.

It was once again a case of Spock not wanting or being willing to give Kirk a heads up about an important relationship situation (parents, wife), but in this case he stole a ship and went renegade. Asking forgiveness rather than permission.

100% Agree with this assessment.
Also, LOVE the casts of the other shows, but this is what they’ve been missing.
Truly hope they decide to go this route, now seeing the success of SNW.

These are just thoughts I have in the moment watching the show: Body swap gimmicks work best when the two characters are opposites or the contrast is very obvious (young-old, uptight, loosey-goosey, etc.). Two Vulcans, though? Not really a lot of contrasts. They speak in monotone and are deadly serious.

In any case, does the episode deliver on its premise? Seems like the contrast is that Spock is half human, T’Pring is full Vulcan. Both of them could’ve experienced the biological strengths/weaknesses of full-blood/half-blood (T’Pring becoming more emotional because of the human biology, Spock more logical because of Vulcan biology) — but at the end of the day, hijinks aside, it didn’t seem all that committed to its premise. Other characters had to tell us (Pike, T’Pring’s aide) what was important to the swapped characters and at the end of the day, neither Spock nor T’Pring have to fully commit to the bit because Pike bails out T’Pring-Spock with a speech and Spock-T’Pring just gives up talking to the criminal and punches him out. No radical empathy for people who’ve fallen off the wagon?

Finally, M’Benga and Chapel bailing the pair out really cheapens the dilemma. An emotional block between them could’ve been what prevented them from swapping back, and actually arriving at an understanding of the other’s POV and *feeling* how the other feels as a way to break the block and allow them to swap back would’ve been the obvious solve. But even the writers of this show seem to have no patience for their own ideas, so everything comes out wishy-washy.

P.S. “I don’t know” is such a bland line to end a teaser with. The most logical, Star Trek-y, fun, most obvious idea was right there: Spock-T’Pring: “It would appear we have swapped bodies.” PULL IN ON T’PRING-SPOCK: (arches an eyebrow) “Fascinating.”

I agree. Uhura, Ortegas, or Chapel would’ve been fun to swap with Spock. They have, you know, actual personalities. T’Pring? She’s a lot of things but she ain’t fun.

I think they did a reasonable job of approximating each other’s manner given the material.

It felt a lot like it was sending up the “sex game gone wrong” scenario with a Vulcan twist.

Two Vulcans, though? Not really a lot of contrasts. They speak in monotone and are deadly serious

This is pointed out in the episode and is part of the joke. And honestly, it’s probably what saved it from going a bit too far into sitcom territory. It was actually kind of impressive to see the little details in each other’s performances that actually made them distinct, if you squint.

Right, which is why I thought about it some more as I watched it to question whether or not they used “every part of the buffalo” (or, simply, took the concept as far as they could) to make this not just a sitcom episode, pointing out that they offloaded much of the heavy lifting to the other characters, which diluted the point of the story, I think.

Re: Fortyseven: “This is pointed out in the episode and is part of the joke. And honestly, it’s probably what saved it from going a bit too far into sitcom territory.”

THIS.

YES. The delivery on the two was wrong. I’m starting to wonder if Spock can do the single arched eyebrow.

“Duck Amuck” is an apt comparison, because this was a turkey of an episode for exactly this reason.

I loved the acting work of Robert Picardo and Jeri Ryan in “Body and Soul”; you really did see the body-swapping showcase the actors there. The DS9 episode about the Zhintara ritual did the same thing.

Here…well, I couldn’t tell the difference between the two personalities. The only tell was that T’Pring walked with her hands behind her back when Spock inhabited her body.

T’Pring, for all her supposed distrust of humans, acts very human when dating. Aren’t Vulcans supposed to press their index and middle fingers together to initate initmacy, rahter than kiss?

The strongest predictor of whether a TNG episode would be a hit would be whether it focused on an A story (“The Inner Light,” “Tapestry,” etc.) or was bifurcated into an A and B story, which left scant time for either plot. Here, there were no fewer than four plotlines: an A, B, C, and D story. That’s just not enough time.

The whole episode illustrates the limits of the much-ballyhooed episodic format.

What Vulcan couples do in public need bear no resemblance to what Vulcan couples do in private.

I have been wondering what happened to the Vulcan two finger touch. This marks the 2nd time this show could have used it and failed. Once again it’s just odd what they decide to adhere to the letter and what they decide to ignore.

Yes! Where was the “fascinating”? There were a few points in the episode where Spock (in either body) should have used it.

Very much agree. The body swap was pointless.

This weeks episode was good though i found it a bit Strange….

I liked seeing this new species the R’ongovians i found them to be interesting and how they had different attitudes to Pike when they met with him and then with T’pring-Spock was neat.

I loved how Pike was honest with them about what the Federation was after and the risks of membership i liked when they displayed the Federation flag though i found the resolution to that story-line to be a bit rushed imo.

I liked seeing Spock in T’pring’s body and being taken out of his comfort zone as they say.

I liked the scenes between Una and La’an trying to get out of their comfort Zone and be more fun and kinda of failing at it and i liked the scene with them out on the hull and signing the oldest scorched part of the hull.

Overall i enjoyed the episode and i loved the shout-out to the Romulans and Klingons and i hope we get to see Chancellor L’rell a.k.a ‘Mother’ in the show and i hope the rumors of seeing the DSC, TOS and TNG klingons in the show are true as i want to see all 3 in the same room.

I’d give the episode 7.5/10.

the rumors of seeing the DSC, TOS and TNG klingons in the show are true…

There are rumors of that happening? Interesting.

Not that I’ve heard. I think it’s on a fan wishlist.

Agreed with all of this.

And yes it’s time to bring L’rell back already!! And as someone who don’t really love the Klingons, I’m starting to miss the Klingons lol. We haven’t seen them in live action since season 2 of Discovery. That was over 3 years ago or 5 seasons of shows. It’s downright crazy we haven’t seen one in all of this time.

I’m up for an appearance or at least visual of the Klingons on SNW but I didn’t much care for how they were portrayed on Disco so I’m in no hurry. Maybe season 2?

I think when we do see them again, there will be some more tinkering done with them. I didn’t mind the direction they were going with them in season 2. They felt and acted a little more like the classic Klingons again IMO. I really really hated how they looked in season one and it was obvious a lot of people felt the same way.

And we know Worf (YAAAAAAY) will be back soon and they made it clear he will look and act like Worf of old (and people would be cancelling their subscriptions to Paramount+ if he didn’t). So I suspect either the DIS Klingons will be geared more to the TNG/TOS films Klingons or just a mixture of both versions which they should’ve done from the beginning.

This show seems to go out of it’s way to line up with Star Trek Discovery far more than it does to line up with TOS. So if the Klingons do show up I would suspect they will be far more Star Trek Discovery-ish than Enterprise-ish or TOS movie/TNG era-ish.

…whenever they mention anything about DSC on SNW I go to the kitchen for a snack. :) Just kidding.

What has the show done to really line up with DIS? Other than reference the ship going into the future and that Spock had a sister, it’s basically doing it’s own thing at this point. And the fact we haven’t seen another character from Discovery show up yet but have but TOS characters popping up proves it’s lining up with TOS more.

Every mention of Star Trek Discovery lines up perfectly. The loss of his adoptive sister, the Discovery being lost… There were a couple others but I don’t commit the specifics of them to memory. Yet there are some pretty huge misses with things not lining up with future events on TOS.

That’s because those characters were directly involved with those events. That’s a little different and would be weird if it’s not at least referenced. But outside of that we haven’t actually seen any visual cues from Discovery or any of the characters from that show yet. The biggest and most glaring example are the uniforms. I thought we would still see some of the Discovery uniforms on Starfleet brass to keep the continuity going at least a little, but nope, those are all gone now too. NOT complaining though lol.

So to me, that already told me they really aren’t necessarily tied to the visual canon of Discovery anymore and that if we see Klingons, they could look more like the traditional Klingons again. And we already have both Prodigy and LDS going back to the traditional look of them. And we know, thankfully Worf will look like Worf when he shows up in Picard.

For the record, I’m OK if they showed the Discovery Klingons again but it’s obvious they know they weren’t a big hit either and slowly turning back the clock on that. It’s still crazy that could be the reason they aren’t shown though but I suspect that’s what it is since you never went a single season without at least one turning up on the old shows.

Basically SNW looks to wiping the visual canon of Discovery away as much as possible to keep it more in line with TOS as Discovery should’ve done in the first place. And I don’t see many complaining about that. ;)

But there really was no organic reason to even mention them. So that right there is going out of their way. Which I find amazingly self serving to Secret Hideout as well as being disingenuous to TOS. Self serving because they are trying to validate their own work. Disingenuous because they are ignoring some rather large elements from TOS in favor of minor comments referencing events from Star Trek Discovery.

But there really was no organic reason to even mention them.

I get that it’s both a bit of a sequel as well as spinoff. There’s been at least one *obvious* reference to Discovery in every episode (or at least close to it) that kind of stops the flow dead in it’s tracks which goes beyond a meaningful reference.

Imagine if they shoehorned TNG references into O’Brien’s dialogue in early DS9 (especially when it was running concurrently), or once Worf came on, they constantly made callbacks? Maybe the references will simmer down or halt, but since very few of them seemed to serve a purpose in-universe, they seem to be self serving inclusions from the writers room.

It’s the same worry I have that DIS plots or minor characters will show up in SNW without much explanation. Each show needs it’s own room to breath in the franchise. It’s a bit suffocating. You can pull off something like that once in a while if you’re doing 20-26 episodes a season, but at a much more slim episode order, it’s not ideal.

It’s the same problem that Star Wars is having with some of it’s shows. Boba Fett may as well have just been The Mandalorian Season 3, and it’s clear from the writers they were most interested in telling that part of the story, which made the rest of the season suffer quite a bit.

Not a single character from Discovery has appeared on SNW yet and it’s 7 episodes in UNLIKE Bobba Fett that bought in multiple characters from Mandalorian like the Mandalorian himself obviously by episode 6. It’s apples and oranges.

On SNW, Spock mentioned his sister twice in an offhand way and that’s all it’s been so far. They haven’t even mentioned any other Discovery characters all season even in passing. You guys are waaaaaay over thinking this.

SNW is a spinoff of Discovery man lol. It would be like DS9 never mentioning TNG at all although O’Brien and later Worf is on the show and DS9 entire story line actually started on TNG. DS9 did it’s own thing and had its own stories, especially when the Dominion war started but every season they found a way to include TNG in some fashion from references to people like Riker in an appearance to Gowron becoming a part of the show.

This is how spinoffs has always been done. I get you really really don’t like Discovery but this is a bit ridiculous to expect them to completely ignore the show just because you don’t like it either.

And did you forget they are bringing Captain Kirk on SNW next season??? How are they ignoring TOS when they are now bringing the guy who symbolizes that show as much as Spock did? If they were bringing Prime Lorca on instead, then you may have a point. ;)

Another fine episode though it seems like they’re still getting the hang of the episodic format. An A, B, C and D Story are simply too much to put into barely 50 Minutes of episode. I personally could have done without the Spock story story but that’s a matter of taste I guess. But it would have given the other plots a bit more room to breathe.

Huh? The Spock story was the A story. The rest were just side jaunts. Without the Spock story, there would not have been much of a plot.

The A-Story was – probably – the diplomatic discussions. You could have done those without bringing Spocks Fiancé on, having question the relationship and doing a body swap. But it doesn’t really matter, how you categorise it, those were that parts of the episode that had me looking more at my phone than on the screen.

I would have liked to see more of Ortegas/Chappeles/M’Bengas Shore Leave. Or have the Scenes with No. 1/Laan expanded on. The whole diplomatic plot could have used a little more meat also but that’s another one I wouldn’t have actually missed, since it was told so half-assed anyways.

The diplomatic mission was a McGuffin, nothing more.

Not a good thing if the McGuffin is more interesting than your actual plot 😅

…which it isn’t.

(Just to iterate, this post isn’t in response to the particular poster that I’m responding to, but rather to an issue that this comment brought up for me and that I felt I would like to address myself finally)

I don’t know you, so I’ll refrain from assuming things. But I would like to point out here that nobody is going to hell for liking certain episodes, and disliking others, or liking certain series, and disliking others. I just wanted to say something I’ve wanted to say for a long time, and that is: cut it out guys.

True Trek fans LIKE that there is a differing of opinion. If you like TOS, but hate everything else, then that is awesome. If you think Discovery is the best trek series, then you are also awesome. If Pulaski is your favorite star trek character, and you also think Spock is just the worst, then I love you brother.

I for one dislike Pulaski to a small degree, and love on Spock like most do. Although I have not watched most of either Discovery or Picard, I have read most synopses and posts on each of the episodes in those series. I also think SNW probably has the best chance of really understanding what made the original five series of Star Trek work when it was at its best.

If you think otherwise, does this mean that you are not a true fan? Not at all. If you think that Picard Season 2 was the best season of star trek or that Voyager Season 6 was the best season of Star Trek, are you an idiot? no. I think the show that brought us a black woman to the bridge in the 60s and made a Native American first officer (and a woman the series captain) in the 90’s would have a huge problem with anyone who wants to say that people aren’t really fans for liking this thing, or not liking that.

I’m a Christian, and I think there is a time to say wrong is wrong, but come on people, this is a made-up show that inspires people for many, many different reasons. How about instead we say “Well, what inspired you to like that, or dislike this?” rather than bludgeon people to death.

Spock / T’Pring was definitely the A-Story. The episode started with that for many minutes before it got around to the diplomacy, and it had by far the most screen time in the episode.

Yeah, probably. But to me it was the least interesting one out of the stories that were or could have been told here. And for that it doesn’t really matter, if it was the A, B, C or D Story.

When I think a/b story, my first take is remembering how awful THE OUTRAGEOUS OKUNA was, both the Okuna storyline and the Piscopo one.

IMHO the B story there fell into the realm of one of my tells that the episode will not be good. Data learning about emotions.

Also: there have been plenty of Star Trek Episodes of old, where the A-Plot was completely forgettable but the B-Plot is still talked about.

While it’s not one I necessarily agree with I keep thinking of “The Neutral Zone” where the A-Plot is the Enterprise thawing out some 20th Century human Stereotypes that need to adapt to the 24th Century. And the B-Plot that barely gets any Screentime is the reemergence of the Romulans after 70 years and the seeds for the later Borg Invasion 😁

Even though this show is geared toward TOS canon obviously, but in reality the stories feel closer to TNG-ENT for me but I couldn’t figure out why? I know they burrow a lot of similar story lines obviously but it just hit me today watching this episode and that SNW has A and B stories like those did. And sometimes even A, B and C stories like the last two episodes.

That’s one thing TOS didn’t do and if they did it was rare. I guess because all the other shows were more of an ensemble so they tried to maximize those characters. And we don’t really get those in Picard or Discovery in the same way because they are throwing in several continuing plots every episode. Obviously we get them in LDS too. But SNW is really set up like how TNG did it and it really works IMO.

I really miss the A and B story format. Another thing SNW is doing right!

I would like to see them concentrate a bit more on one story, because these often feel rushed to me when so much is crammed in.

That said, I enjoyed seeing the characters on downtime. Except Hemmer, poor Hemmer.

I was never a fan of A & B stories. Always preferred there be one storyline per episode unless the two stories met up with each other.

I missed Hemmer.

Bruce Horak was even omitted from the main titles.

There seems to be a bit of a story behind all of this. He’s quickly becoming a popular character (as most aliens requiring full prosthetics seem to do). People will want to know if he’s really main cast.

He has noted in interviews that his heavy prosthetics required two makeup artists to be with him all the time, plus his assistant to help him navigate the constantly changing set ups and hazards on the sets. He was basically a COVID mini-bubble on his own with his own team. This may explain some constraints on his appearances.

It seems odd though that he’s not mentioned in all the cast listings, and some early versions of the key art omit him.

One hopes that Tony and Laurie will be able to fill it all in by the end of season.

Modern television tends to only credit cast in the episodes that they are in. That he is not in the credits for this episode simply means that he is not in that one. The actors actual contract may be for a seven or eight pay or play, rather than HE MUST BE in all ten, which means if they don’t really need him, he doesn’t have to roll out of bed at 3am to make a set call to deliver a handful of lines. The Sopranos did this, a lot of their main cast were not required to appear if they didn’t need to, it’s been going on for about two decades and isn’t a reflection on the actor at all.

Back in the 80s and 90’s, you were credited on the main titles on every episode – which means Cirroc Lofton and Colm Meany are technically in more episodes of DS9 than they are actually seen. There’s a lot of DS9 episodes where the main cast have one line/scene simply to justify their credit, even if the actual episode never really required their character to be present. Some of the Ferengi and Klingon episodes notably shoehorn the regular cast in for this reason, and only this reason.

I really miss the A and B story format. Another thing SNW is doing right!

On the contrary, the single most effective predictor of the quality of a TNG episode was whether it focused on a single A story, or bifurcated the plot into A and B stories.

Off the top of my head, “Q-Who,” “The Measure of a Man,” “Who Watches the Watchers,” “11001001,” “Conspiracy,” “Sins of the Father,” “Reunion,” “First Contact,” “The Drumhead,” “The Inner Light,” “Darmok,” “The Pegasus,” and “Tapestry” all had linear A-plots. The only truly impressive A-B plot I can recall from TNG was the highly underrated “A Matter of Honor.” And even there, the A and B plots mirrored each other.

The pattern doesn’t hold for most two-part episodes (e.g., “BOBW”), probably because there’s enough time to flesh out more than one plot. Even there, though, “Redemption” suffered from an attempt to shoehorn a tangential plot — about Data assuming the captain’s chair — into an already-too-rushed resolution to the Klingon civil war. They should have turned that one into a three-parter.

I have a much less encyclopedic knowledge of VOY and DS9, but my sense is the same is true of those series, too.

Are you enjoying SNW being more episodic now? I remember you were really adamant about it staying serialized like DIS and PIC.

And all those episodes you name are also amazing! No arguments there! :) I still like A and B stories as well though.

Actually, my initial reaction is that it’s less episodic than many are making it out to be — as the fact that they feel a need to show a recap of previous episodes before unveiling a new one illustrates.

I don’t recall any pre-Secret Hideout Trek doing that, except before the conclusion of a two-parter. By contrast, STARGATE was somewhat serialized, if you think about it; that show did exactly the same thing.

None of this surprises me. They know that 1980s style television, much less 1960s style, where Kirk was utterly unchanged by “City of the Edge of Forever” — was never going to fly in the streaming era. Even TNG realized grasped this point by its third season.

I also expect it may become even more serialized as the series matures, much as DS9 did. I would be completely unsurprised to learn that Pike’s story continues after THE MENAGERIE (rather in the way Jimmy McGill’s continues in Nebraska), and Pike’s conversation with Una in “Children of the Comet,” where she asks whether his future is truly written, foreshadows this development. Una’s genetic engineering does, too. These are going to be ongoing story arcs, which is to be welcomed.

I mean it is episodic,it’s mostly the way Enterprise did it where they followed the lives of the characters more every episode or referenced previous stories in that season, but the stories themselves didn’t follow each other every week. That’s exactly how Enterprise did it in the first two seasons.

And that’s how ALL shows are today including sitcoms. Even the episodic ones like Law and Order (not counting Organized Crime which is very serialized) or NCIS. The character stuff is followed, previous story lines are remembered, but the stories don’t follow each other week to week and every episode just has a beginning, middle and end and resets itself the next week. And that’s been the case since the early 2000s. It can’t be like 1960 lol. No show is that standalone anymore. And no one wanted that.

Fans just wanted where they can just choose an episode and not feel completely lost if they didn’t watch the previous four. It’s just fun having random weekly adventures again and where you can do things like have a battle with the Gorn one week but then a light shore leave episode the next. That’s how most of the old shows did it. You can’t do stuff like that on Discovery because you have five different story lines running through the season you have to maintain on some level every episode.

So it’s the best of both worlds, you do get a small connection of seeing character arcs, but it doesn’t hinder the viewing if you just skip around like most of the classic shows. I imagine it will become more serialized as well, but hopefully nothing like Picard but more like how it was done on DS9.

Actually, my initial reaction is that it’s less episodic than many are making it out to be — as the fact that they feel a need to show a recap of previous episodes before unveiling a new one illustrates.

I don’t recall any pre-Secret Hideout Trek doing that, except before the conclusion of a two-parter. By contrast, STARGATE was somewhat serialized, if you think about it; that show did exactly the same thing.

It’s actually a bit odd, because most of what has shown up in their recaps has no direct bearing on the plot of the episodes, or couldn’t already be inferred directly from dialogue.

It’s been a few years since I watched STARGATE all the way through, but my memory is that early recaps often were included if it was used to remind the audience about an enemy, location or important plot thread from an episode many episodes earlier. As the show got very serialized towards the end (in that most episodes were centered around the Ori invasion), the recaps picked up.

I think TNG’s Family should be up there with impressive A-B (or A-B-C) plot episodes: Picard recovering from the Borg, Wesley’s message from his father, and Worf with his foster parents are each interesting stories.

I’m not sure how to classify Disaster, either. It is essentially one story, but it follows the story in five distinct subplots (Picard and the children, Beverly and Geordi in the cargo bay, Riker and Data trying to get to Engineering, Deanna & Co. on the Bridge, and Worf delivering Keiko’s baby.)

Agreed on “Family” — although of course that one is sui generis, because it has no science fiction plot whatsoever.

Had they tried to shoehorn a science fiction plot in, I suspect my theory would hold.

And they thought about doing that! To channel what Churchill said of the United States, the writers did the right thing — focusing on the characters — after exhausting all the other alternatives. An A-plot about a child stowaway would have made the whole kit and caboodle eminently forgettable.

According to CFQ, they did (I guess at Berman’s behest) try to shoehorn in a scifi plot aboard the ship during FAMILY, but it never integrated. I guess they had the Wesley’s dad element left over from somebody’s spec they bought earlier, so that was a better fit.

I think DISASTER is what finally emerged from a story they had bought (god knows why) a couple of years earlier called WALK A LIGHT YEAR IN MY SHOES. In the document sent to prospective writers in late 1990, they had a list of in-development stories that included this (also, IT CAN’T HAPPEN HERE, at that point Ron Moore’s, before it later became Jeri Taylor’s THE DRUMHEAD), where it was something like ‘Geordi’s in the nursery, Crusher’s on the bridge, Picard’s in the toilet … and then the Romulans attack.’ (okay, I’m being facetious about the toilet, but the last line of the pitch really was ‘then the Romulans attack’ — which really seemed to me to be stacking contrivance upon contrivance. I’m guessing it was credited to Worley Thorne, but I ebayed all that stuff years back and so can’t check.

Disaster is different, I agree and similar to what they did with the Gorn episode on SNW. And some A and B plots do line up together at times. They aren’t always completely disconnected or find a way to combine the story lines by the end.

I’m not a fan of A & B stories but I did not find their presence to be a quality indicator of the upcoming TNG episode. I found there were other indicators. Like was it about a holodeck malfunction? Does Troi’s mom appear? Is it focusing on Data learning about emotions? Does Wesley play a prominent role? Are characters family showing up? All of those were signs of sub par episodes.

Oh, there are other indicators, too — a big one being whether the episode features kids. But I think plot structure is pretty darn predictive.

Lwaxana Troi at least gave us “Half a Life” and “Dark Page.” The holodeck gave us “Ship in a Bottle” and “The Big Goodbye.” Wesley gave us “The First Duty.”

I honestly don’t recall titles from TNG. But there are no good holodeck episodes. Every single one was awful. I will give you the last Mrs Troi episode was decent. But that was it. And nothing with Wesley was good. Sorry.

Considering there was a certain element of experimentation and let-your-hair-down fun in this one, I can give a pass with it being a jumble of weird little side threads. In a normal episode I would definitely not be so forgiving. ;D

One can be foregiving of the odd turkey in a 26-episode season. In a ten-episode season, not so much.

I couldn’t agree with this statement more.

Great review… though the word is spelled “hijinks,” not “hijinx.”

‘hijinx an alternative form of high jinks.’

On Wiktionary, which is not a real dictionary. In actual dictionaries, the word has always been spelled as “hijinks,” since it’s a combination of the words “high” and “jinks.”

Bond greeting Hallie Berry’s character in an unseen moment from DIE ANOTHER DAY:
Hi, Jinx.

Yes, it is.

Way better than I was expecting from an episode described as a “Rom Com”. Again another fantastic character episode with stunning visuals, music, sets, and charming performances throughout. The show has done such a great job with character voice, especially with Spock’s which can be tricky to get right. It all feels so perfect! I love Christine Chapel, a FAR better character than I was expecting from the first episodes and somebody I’ve grown to really like for her humanity, a perfect foil for Spock. I love the “color” they are giving every character, M’Benga’s fly-fishing hobby was delightful to see. The alien of the week turned out to be the most compelling part of this episode for me, well acted and conceptually executed and felt SOO very much like TNG. I freaking LOVE the Enterprise Bingo adventure, so much fun with some great ideas, especially the turbo-lift gag and signing the scorch plate. This show is 4 for 4 as far as I’m concerned! Loving it more with every passing episode. This show is so much more fun, and it looks and sounds phenomenal. It took long enough, but they finally figured out how to make a Star Trek series.

Seeing M’Benga in the hat made me think of Henry Blake from M*A*S*H*

Let’s just hope he doesn’t get shot down over the Opal Sea.

That’s still one of the most moving things I ever witnessed on the tube. I flipped past a clip show of MASH a couple years back and when I saw Radar enter the OR, I had to stop again, mesmerized, to listen and watch, and to once again tear up massively.

Questions: Did the Federation know about Tribbles prior to Kirk’s encounter?
Also, is Roger Korby (Chapel’s fiance that disappears) in her future here or her past?

My impression is that they’re going down the path of her falling for Spock, so there may not be much room for Korby.

Well, according to the established timeline, SNW is currently in 2259, and Korby disappears in 2261. If they chose to somewhat support the canon, there’s a small window. I’m kinda thinking they’re going to be retconning a lot of minor issues, possibly even rebooting the Original Series.

I really hope they bring in Korby as someone she totally falls for and Spock can counsel her on. When he vanishes the fallout would be good drama.

I agree with both of you.

I’m guessing any SNW Korby will demostrate or hint at some level of kink that goes beyond whatever the current norm favors.

(9-1/2 STARDATES, anyone?)

That would at least anticipate the STEPFORD-level aspect of WHAT ARE LITTLE GIRLS MADE OF?’s building Sherry Jackson’s droid (which for me recalls William Goldman’s critique of THE STEPFORD WIVES movie, which he adapted but feels fell prey to the director casting his wife in a key role: if these men are so crazed and deluded into thinking they will be happy humping a piece of plastic in place of their wives, then you’d better make sure that piece of plastic looks at least as good as Bo Derek.)

Her and Kirby are engaged when he goes off to that planet where he becomes a android and that was in 2261 and the episode of tos takes place in 2266 and this snw episode takes place in 2259 and she had not meet him yet going by what she said to ortegas at the end

Given that they have changed all sorts of things I wouldn’t be surprised to see Dr. Korby never ever mentioned or retconned out because he doesn’t fit with what they want to do with Chapel.

I have to agree with this. I wouldn’t be shocked if Dr. Korby will just be retconned out of Chapel’s story completely. And I’m fine with that. It’s just one character who showed up in an episode and was never referenced again.

Thats the thing about TOS, so many of the stories happens in one episode and if you skip it it literally doesn’t matter to the rest of canon.

IMHO just because something appeared in one episode doesn’t mean it is a candidate for expulsion. Some things I think ought to be set in stone and not screwed with. If one buys that then some 80% of TOS is open for removal.

I’m not suggesting that. I’m only saying I don’t mind some stories get skipped if they were never really developed or that many never cared about. On a scale of 1-10, who cares about Dr. Korby? For me, it’s a 2 at best. It’s no different than Scotty’s girlfriend who showed up in Lights of Zetar and never heard from again. They really added nothing to the show and no one ever talks about them for a reason. T’Pring is a different story obviously and because Amok Time itself has become so iconic in the fanbase.

So I’m fine if they take Chapel another way. And obviously they already are because she’s practically a completely different character on this show. I can’t imagine old Chapel bed hopping like I can this one lol.

She’s closer to Majel Barret’s Lwaxana Troi than she is to Chapel IMO.

I agree that WALGMO is a sub par episode but it was the very very few (perhaps the only one?) that dealt with something from a side character’s past. As such I sorta feel like it is something that ought to be taken seriously if one is doing something about Chapel’s past. But this is where we are. A group that “loves and respects” Star Trek on the things they want to use on their new show but is also willing to ignore and remove any element (ie NOT respecting Star Trek) that gets in the way of something they want to do on their new show.

That’s certainly true, we learned ONE thing about Chapel on TOS and that was it lol. It would be funny if they negated the one piece of actual development of the character. And I don’t recall that episode fully although I watched last year for my grand rewatch but didn’t she join Starfleet because of Korby or something? Maybe I’m getting it confused. This Chapel is certainly not following any man lol. This one just likes random hook ups with anyone and keeps things light…male or female it seems.

For me, I just never cared about Chapel that much. She was always just sort of…there, so I’m OK with whatever they do with her. That said, yeah, it is basically a totally different character from the show. They could’ve gave her another name and you lose nothing. I’m guessing though her and Spock relationship is the main reason she’s even there. I just hope it doesn’t become like a love triangle thing between her and T’Pring.

The writer’s guide definitely indicated the whole Korby lost as why she joined Starfleet.

Ok but did the episode itself say that? If it did, that’s another big retcon because clearly this Chapel isn’t looking for anything other than a good time lol.

I seem to remember that being specifically addressed in the teaser.

Yeah, I didn’t look at the episode but I went on Memory-Alpha and they stated that’s why she joined Starfleet in the episode.

Truth. She could be a new character named Charlene Christie and they loose nothing. They could still use the “falling for Spock” thing if they want, too.

And this is a big annoyance with me. Every single thing they did that goes against what we have seen on TOS could have been dealt with so incredibly easily!

Leila is also supposed to meet and fall for Spock in 2361 on Earth as well. Are they going to retcon that away like the term Vulcanian used also in “This Side of Paradise”?

I mentioned her in another post somewhere, but couldn’t remember her name. I guess we’ll see but it could be a few seasons down the line….after Spock and Chapel’s wedding. (I keed!)

It will all depend on what this group wants to do with Spock. They are obviously not feeling handcuffed by anything TOS did or said. So in all honesty they very well might do literally ANYTHING with any character.

Vulcanian is also referenced in COURT MARTIAL, as in Vulcanian Expedition.

Given the android body business with PICARD, it would seem strange for the producers to go out of their way to not include mention of Korby’s work, unless they don’t want to invite inevitable comparisons. Shoot, the Robert Bloch estate, such as it may be, might decide that PICARD encroached on things in an Ellison-actionable kind of fashion.

He could still be part of the story but since they already changed her backstory from the original Chapel, they could go a different way now. You go from a character who is so in love with someone they change their entire career to find them to a woman who doesn’t even want to have a long term boyfriend.

I will be curious to see if and how Korby is added now. I guess they can sort of keep to the original canon and that she doesn’t want to get seriously involved with someone because she still pines for Korby who went missing. That’s kind of how they played Riker. When he was with Troi, there was no one else. But when they weren’t together he was just a horndog lol. But once they finally settled down for good, he was loyal as a puppy.

But that doesn’t feel like the direction they are going in with her and might just keep it to her and the Spock thing.

Hey, I just remembered (or I think I remembered) something. Doesn’t Chapel actually ask Spock if he has ever been engaged during the WALGMO teaser?

Great question. I really can’t remember but now I HAVE to look it up lol.

Even if that’s true, the show has already broken canon just by showing them together. So all bets are off at this point.

Dude by the time this show is over, don’t be shock if T’Pring and Chapel hooks up! ;D

What if you get mirror Spock coming over and hooking up with both T’Pring AND Chapel?

Or an early transporter malfunction that separates Spock into two beings … one human and one Vulcan (done decades back in fanfic — derived from Kipling’s THE THOUSANDTH MAN, a very apt interpretation of the Kirk/Spock relationship — as an operation by a scientist, but here would be their earlier precursor to THE ENEMY WITHIN.) And each Spock pairing off with one of these women?

I’m really starting to wonder if that NINE AND A HALF STARDATES idea I mentioned elsewhere (probably in this thread) may already be in the works …

OK dude, I went and watched the beginning of the episode and you’re right, she did in fact ask Spock if he ever been engaged. It wasn’t in the teaser but in the first scene after that.

But as I said, the show already broke canon the second they were shown together. At this point, it doesn’t really matter now.

This show has broke canon!?! No way!
>;>}
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.
.
.
(embrace the multiverse)

I have no issues if the show was in another universe. It would solve a lot of these problems.

Correction. It would solve probably 99% if not 100% of the problems.

….was thinking the same thing about Korby. I think he’ll simply be skipped or mentioned in passing. It really doesn’t matter at this point, to me at least. SNW is it’s own thing, as TOS was.

Does this mean you are looking at SNW as a reboot independent of any other Trek show ever?

Honestly not sure yet, ML. But I know I’m tired of beating my head against a wall (not literally, of course) every time there’s a canon violation in Kurtzman-Trek. It’s mentally tiring, and enough of ‘real’ life is exhausting enough. Trek has always been a fun, necessary escape from reality for me, and I need it to be that way again. So from now on I think I’m going to adopt a ‘canon be damned’ outlook on these new shows, and center on the writing. If the stories are smart and enjoyable, that’s good enough for me. If they’re not – which has been the case more often than not (imo, and SNW is a refreshing change so far) – I’ll have a beef with that. DSC and most of PIC, for me, is just bad writing and storytelling, which is inexcusable.

Thanks much for the question, I appreciate that!

At this point I really really wish I had the ability to watch this pretending it’s a reboot. It’s rough because TPTB have continually told us it’s not yet everything about the show says it is. It’s rough for me to reconcile.

I get your struggle, and honestly wish they would just admit it, too. It would make the show(s) so much more enjoyable for so many people, perhaps, and cause less vitriol all-around. But yeah, in my brain I’ve just gone ahead and done it myself. Less effort.

ML31 you really really don’t like ANY deviation or slight difference from ANY previous episode do you, you keep pointing out that they have “changed so many things”, it’s 2022, not 1960, some things have to inevitably change, just get over it and enjoy the episode!

One character from one episode doesn’t need to impact a main character in a new shows whole Life path so it can match your TOS Bingo.

And to answer the tribble question: they were in an episode of “Enterprise” and Lorca had one as a pet on “Discovery.” So, the answer is now ‘yes’ .. take that as you will.

The Trouble with Edward basically retconned the tribles in a major way and suggested it was Starfleet that made them breed at the alarming rates so they could be a food source.

I know that technically the Short Treks count as canon I have a difficult time counting them as such. Yes yes, I’m aware of the inconsistency on my part there.

Since Chapel is still looking for love (echoed by the song played at the end of the episode), I think Korby is in her future.

Thought this episode was a bit a fun. Wondering if the scorch is a wink to the changes in the Enterprise’s design from the Cage, and leading into TOS.

I have a feeling the hull panel is from before the events of the cage maybe the last piece of the ship from when April was in command during the first 5 year mission from 2245-2250 and the enterprise would be almost 15 years old in snw since it takes place 2259 during pike’s second 5 year mission and that would mean pike had 3 5 year missions as the capt the enterprise with Kirk only have ing 1 five year mission before the tmp refit

It felt as if the episode was written for the characters, not for getting more viewers, not by stupid Joseph Campbell ripoff artists. It felt human. What a nice episode.

I know this has been mentioned before but Spock’s ears look like plastic rather than flesh. I hope they can sort this out. I didn’t expect to enjoy this episode but they pulled it off very well.

They do :-) Too pale. Probably all the blood went into his rather red human ears in the dream sequence

The scene with Spock ascertaining himself his ears are still in place was funny though

Actually, I did not like this one as much as I would have wanted to: All of the ideas in it were very good, but I felt it lacked in execution and comedic timing of its pacing. It just wasn’t on point as much as it could have been. Curiously, though I tend to find shows too fast, to me this one felt quite slow and sometimes dragging. Also, I disagree with “all of this fun was greatly helped by composer Nami Melumad who indulged herself with lighter motifs that match the sitcom-style moments”: I found the standard-type sitcom “droll” jumpy music (which immediately started as soon as the scene between Spock and T’Pring was starting to play out) distracting and annoyingly obvious, like “hear me playing the same funny jumpy music that has indicated droll scenes in like a 100 TV series, just so you definitely know this is supposed to be funny before the scene could even unfold on its own or the viewer develop their own feelings about it”. I did like the music in the previous episodes but not this one.
I think Jess Bush is a very good actress. Looks like Chapel’s got a bit of a crush on Spock. Wonder whether she’ll be Trek’s take on Molly Hooper or does she just enjoy a flirt.

I find myself questioning why would the Chapel crush on Spock be the ONE character trait they decided to hold on to about her?

Hm, maybe because it presents dramatic opportunity to deal with Chapel’s apparent relationship commitment issues, and because (in addition to the obvious attempts with shirtless scenes) in terms of writing it serves viewing Spock as an attractive character. Plus someone might have objected the deviation from canon if she didn’t :-)

I hope I am reading the smiley face right and this is sarcasm.

More like lovingly joking (no sarcasm here). What would the fandom be without the canon knowledge of so many (and the related back-and-forth…), after all? I’m not that canon-firm myself, so it can be helpful when others point things out…

Maybe it’s just me, but the idea of “Enterprise bingo” involving shooting live phasers at each other, even at their lowest setting, was considerably less “fun” in light of Uvlade.

The number one rule of gun safety is that you *always* assume a gun is fully loaded.

which is probably why it’s on the bingo list of forbidden things to do ;-)

Diane Duane’s awesome TREK novel THE WOUNDED SKY has the crew funning around on the Rec Deck with pink-beamed phasers that are set on ‘tag.’

This episode was fun to watch and was a great Spock story. I am really impressed with Ethan Peck as Spock, and he is doing a great job making the character his own.

It wasn’t terrible. It had its moments. But I think this is one of those I’ll be skipping in my rewatches.

This was Star Trek. Real Star Trek. <3

It’s all “real Star Trek.”

Trolling much? This is all real Star Trek.

Some much better than others though.

This episode felt like a live action Lower Decks episode in all the best ways! I saw someone named it Star Trek: Upper Decks!

It really felt like Mike McMahan wrote this! I could see EVERY scene happening on LDS, with a bit of tweaks.This was so much fun! And I love weird and trippy Star Trek. Those are my favorite episodes and this did it well. It’s nice to just have FUN episodes again. That’s what Discovery and Picard are really missing IMO. Yes body swapping is as silly as it gets in science fiction but Star Trek makes it work!

It wasn’t perfect, I still didn’t understand the whole Vulcan situation T’Pring had to ‘capture’ (and man why are Vulcans still so racist??? Let’s be honest, Archer was right! ;)). Enterprise Bingo with Una and La’an was fun but it did feel more like filler after awhile. But the T’Pring/Spock switcheroo was great stuff. At first I thought, ‘they are Vulcans, how different can they be??’. But after a few minutes I bought it. Great acting on both of their parts.

And I really loved how they resolved the other story with Pike negotiating with the aliens to ally with the Federation. Very clever writing.

And anyone who is hoping this show will stay true to TOS canon, yeah I think we have accept that’s really not going to happen lol. But the show is hitting all the important marks for me: Well written, smart and entertaining! So far I’m really enjoying it. This episode 9/10.

Another first and last sentence read for me – once again that is all I need. Looking forward to tonight’s episode. I am sure they will lay an egg sooner or later, but so far 4 out of 4 for me and sounds like another winner tonight.

Star Trek – Upper Decks haha, too funny!! UDs!

Haha, I think you’re spot on. And maybe that was why the episode felt a bit sleepy to me, because it was LIKE Lower Decks but just much slower without the usual quickfire to-and-fro

Agreed with that. LDS has a much faster pace; probably because they only have half the time to tell their story. I really want someone on the Cerritos to adopt Enterprise Bingo though lol. Mariner can even reference Pike’s crew as being the originators of it and carried on a century later.

We can see REAL hijinks on that show! ;)

I wish someone from the LDS editing team would re-cut this episode. Not so much enhance speed (LDS is too fast for me most of the time :-D), but rather with regard to timing and action/reaction. I imagine cutting comedy is not easy

I think it was an enjoyable episode as well, Tiger. As another poster said, the opening dream sequence was worth the price of admission on this one for me – the hints of Amok Time score, the look of the Vulcan set. And overall the fine chemistry the cast seems to share is very much in play during the entire episode. Lots of good bits in this one, I found myself grinning once or twice. And I agree with you as to TOS canon – it’s pretty much toast! Oh well, Fun show anyway. I have to watch Lower Decks, I’ve only seen the first episode.

Danpaine, really give LDS a shot! I would say watch at least 5 more episodes. If you think it sucks, then stop there! But I fell in love with that show probably by episode 4. I know the show has its critics like all the shows but it’s one of the best things to come out of Trek for me; especially because PIC and DIS felt like such dour downers. It was just nice to have a show that stuck to canon but fun at the same time.

And that’s how I’m starting to feel about SNW. I been pretty cautious to outright embrace it so early after being burnt with PIC and DIS time and time again. But no more, this is a GREAT show. It really brings all the elements of Trek people been missing and begging for since Enterprise went off the air. It doesn’t quite feel like a direct prequel to TOS, especially with all the canon and character differences, but it sticks to the overall basics. But in story structure and concepts, SNW feels much more like TNG just a bit more fun and less stuffy. And I’m happy it’s embracing trippy Star Trek again!

I don’t want to jump ahead of myself but I think I can like this show more than TOS itself in time. TOS is not my favorite Trek show anymore but none of the new Trek shows are ahead of it either. This could be the first one.

TOS will remain my favorite, as a child when I first watched it in the early to mid 1970’s, it literally informed and shaped the way I think of things to this day, in a positive way. That crew became my TV family. How to treat people, how not to treat people, how to manage anger (my childhood wasn’t so great) – the list goes on and on. TOS was/is a lot more than a television show for me. I’m very fond of TNG, VOY, DS9, but in a more general way.

To borrow a little from what I posted above, I know I’m tired of beating my head against a wall (not literally, of course) every time there’s a canon violation in Kurtzman-Trek. It’s mentally tiring, and enough of ‘real’ life is exhausting enough. Trek has always been a fun, necessary escape from reality for me, and I need it to be that way again. So from now on I think I’m going to adopt a ‘canon be damned’ outlook on these new shows, and center on the writing. If the stories are smart and enjoyable, that’s good enough for me. If they’re not – which has been the case more often than not (SNW is a refreshing change so far) – I’ll have a beef with that. DSC and most of PIC, for me, is just bad writing and storytelling, which is inexcusable. DSC, in fact, simply doesn’t exist as far as I’m concerned.

So yes, I’m going to check out LD, and I enjoyed S1 of Prodigy as well, despite it’s being aimed at a much younger audience.

Oh yeah I definitely hear you. As I told you months ago, I suspected that they were going to ignore a lot of the canon. That was confirmed to me the second they announced La’an on the show. That was the biggest indicator before we saw a single scene from it. And I’m not completely OK they just change whatever they want either, but I also accepted it as well. I was always banging my head with it with Discovery but I was banging my head for a lot of things on that show lol. And like you said, the issues with DIS and sadly Picard is the bad writing more than anything. Most people wouldn’t care about all the canon changes if they liked the characters or stories more.

SNW is really a breath of fresh air though. After months of frustration watching season 4 of Discovery (which I didn’t think was all bad, just too stretched out and tedious more than anything) and then season 2 of Picard (which WAS horrendous) it is nice to just enjoy a show again where you don’t have to think super hard about anything because it is episodic and more light and fun. The irony is Prodigy feels like a heavier show right now than SNW lol. Not super dark or depressing, just a more serious story line happening and bigger stakes. But I’m loving Prodigy too and can’t wait to return; especially now that Admiral Janeway will be there.

So I’m OK if they negate some of the canon with TOS but if they go too far, it will lose people. Right now, it feels more like smaller retcons and as long as they are doing it to tell a more fleshed out story, as Sisko once said, I can live with it.

But if the Romulans or the Borg pops up, then they may lose me. ;)

I have to give credit to Ethan Peck. His portrayal of Spock is growing on me. In Discovery and the first few episodes of SNW his efforts seemed a little wooden, but he’s doing a good job now in fleshing out the character.

Yes Peck is doing an amazing job! I never had an issue with Quinto as Spock but he’s never been that strong to me. But Peck hits it out of the park. I was originally one of the people who never wanted to see Spock brought back at all. I’m so happy I didn’t get my wish lol.

It’s going to be tough watching Quinto if another film is made. He never understood the character (or perhaps the scripts didn’t serve him and his character well). And then there’s that all-important *voice* that Peck has and Quinto doesn’t.

I agree. I like Quinto but it’s no comparison to Peck IMO. And to be fair, it was a lot of the writing and how Spock was portrayed in those movies as you said.

Is it just me or are they not giving enough screen time for Pike?

Didn’t you know? Nowadays, the woke characters dominate EVERY television show and movie.
The SJW demand it.

Pike was in the previous episode a lot. And if you remember, Picard, Sisko, Janeway we’re not the main character in every episode. It’s more an ensemble show.

I liked the episode in general but I did so wanted to see how Hemmer actually spent his shore leave. That is the one character that I hope they don’t relegate to background. The aliens were cool with their emphatic abilities and the sail-ship. I loved the idea of the Enterprise Bingo although I think the challenges should be changed as time goes on and they should really go all out on the final challenge (maybe something like beaming the biggest thing possible in a starship or skydiving near a black hole or something) One person that I really missed when watching this episode was DC Fontana and how this episode was right up her alley as the resident vulcan expert.

Your suggestion definitely needs to be picked up by Lower Decks!

Enterprise Bingo is SUCH a Lower Decks idea lol. I mean I couldn’t see this being done in TNG and TOS but it works for SNW and LDS since these shows are a bit more lighter and fun.

Ok, I have an idea, lets each of us try to find a challenge for Enterprise Bingo and write it here: I’ll start:
Beam a single body part into space and then back.

Ok, I’m aghast at that opener alphantrion.

Spacewalking without a suit and leaving one’s mark on the oldest panel seems the ultimate go into the unreachable places challenge.

My additions would be:

– somehow getting under engine ducts without a suit (which means getting a shot of radiation meds on the sneak)

– cruising in the cetacean ops pool in an empty/repurposed sensor/torpedo pod

This whole tradition definitely sounds like it had it’s origins at MIT (check out the hacking museum website).

I got another one, stealing the captains yacht :))

Get loaded on Tranya.
Fly from the ship to a planet surface inside a torpedo tube.
Commandeer the communications system and sing an Irish ballad.
Eat a tribble.
Give your eyebrows a Romulan makeover.
Give your head a Talosian makeover.
Turn each other into styrofoam hexagons and back again.
Get the bridge chronometer to run backwards.
Have an ahn woon fight.

Eat a tribble is meeeann.

‘Turn each other into styrofoam hexagons and back again.’
Nice.

dodecahedrons if you’re talking BY ANY OTHER NAME, and I hope the hex shapes they were walking on in TMP weren’t styrofoam!

But okay, here’s one, inspired by an illustration I saw in the wonderfully funny book SCIENCE MADE STUPID: create a teleportation fusion of animate lizard and inanimate book, then challenge somebody to name it a Thesaurus.

Science Made Stupid! Blast from the past! Haven’t thought about that in ages.

Beam an angry Targ into the ready room during a bridge crew briefing and then quickly beam it out again in mid pounce.

I know the general consensus here is that most people loved this episode and I respect that, but I was rolling my eyes the entire time. Also, I didn’t see much of a difference in personality between T’Pring and Spock when they switched bodies, except for the fact that Spock punched the Vulcan and T’Pring would have likely shown more restraint.

Yes, they seemed quite the same apart from T’Pring appearing more emotional and Spock being more soft-spoken. Maybe I need to rewatch to look for differences.

I found the differences very clear in both the actors’ performances as well as the dialogue.

I was frankly astounded and impressed at how well Gia Sandhu was able to capture Spock’s stiff body posture and mannerisms (a clear mix of both Nimoy and Peck) on her first time doing Spock, and in a female body.

Watch what Peck does with his affect as T’Pring. How he stands up, tension in his face, how his hands are placed. Ethan was amazing…
.
And Gia did great when you consider Spock had just said as a child he had to act extremely Vulcan…. Gia became robotic as Spock.

Thanks, it seems a rewatch is in order

A fun episode! The only thing that did not seem “organic” was M’Bengas fly fishing. Seems like a federation doctor would hold any life form in high regard rather than hunt it down. Pikes tunic seemed a bit wierd, looked almost like a green leather jacket. Also, Kirk did not have a black tee under his tunic.

I too thought the green leather tunic looked a bit odd. Regardless, it was a fun episode to watch.

I prefer this visually updated version it looks more comfortable with the material and it is the perfect balance of casual and formal that a uniform variant like this should be and I like the fact the lower sideways delta is a buckle to hold the wrap together while still having the actual uniform badge were it should be

It was not fully leather it was only leather on the top of the shoulders and down the outer side of the leaved the rest looks to be the same material as the main uniforms are
kirks was also designed to hold in shatners waist as he had started to gain weight in his waist

The only thing that did not seem “organic” was M’Bengas fly fishing.

Oddly enough, that was one of the only bits I liked and where the humor worked.

We can presume when M’Benga has visited Pike in Montana, that Pike got him hooked on fishing. (pun intended). Since many of us who fish release the fish, I’m not seeing a problem here. Particularly if the fish in Starbase 1’s lake dome are holographic.

I’ve heard various account about whether fish feel pain, but have to figure that all that wriggling around when caught can’t be pleasant, so it seems very much at odds with a doctor’s ‘first, do no harm’ dictum.

Unless they are going to cop out with ‘the amusement of the humans outweigh the pain of the fish.’

I liked that tunic, very retro :-) I had the same thought about the doctor. But then recently I saw videos about a gifted animal doctor who also adored a good steak…The human brain’s capacity to compartmentalise is rather astounding.

If you’re looking for a knee slapper, this isn’t it. The dry humor hit all the right notes.
Great episode.

I enjoyed the episode. But even more, I am enjoying the overwhelming positive impression this show is making for the fan base! It seems the third time is the charm for the Kurtzman era live action shows. I give Kurtzman and company credit for listening to the fans. They have tried to make Discovery better in recent seasons but it was unfortunately flawed from the start (in my opinion). Hopefully Strange New Worlds bodes well for the future. Let’s get an episodic Stargazer series set in the post-TNG era next!

Exactly the way I feel Captain Danno, thank goodness that they listened to the fans eventually. I gave up on Discovery early in season 4, I think its main problem is the serialized format and perhaps writers not quite up to the task of making a long story line format compelling enough. Oh, and all the damn whispering and crying too.
But with SNW, it’s bright, well paced, all characters are likeable, stories are condensed and tight, dialog is believable, visuals are stunning (although space scenes are perhaps a little to much CGI-ish).
After I watched the first episode of SNW, I watched it again the next day to soak it in. I have never watched any previous episode of Trek twice in a row before!

I loved this episode. I might be mis-remembering Amok Time, but despite Kirk, McCoy, Scotty, etc., I can fully believe Spock built upon his relationship with T’Pring prior to Amok Time. And due to his duty, he was pulled away from her for periods of time. So, I have no issues with canon here.

Last week, it felt as though the writers hand selected episode/movie segments and just inserted them into the story structure. This week, imho they did much better, taking an initial familiar setting and told something completely new and continued to follow it up with a relatively original storyline.

I would have liked to see some ship damage repair that takes us closer to TOS. But oh well. Maybe one day. 🤞

Well done. Great stuff.

The canon issue I had was Chapel meeting T’Pring and being well aware of Spock’s relationship status when it was crystal clear she was not in Amok Time.

Apart from that glaring error the episode did work. It’s just hard to get past such major mistakes from people who claim to know Trek well.

She was on the Enterprise though.she was McCoy’s standard nurse, right?

Yes. And she asked Spock “Who is she” when she saw an image of T’Pring. That is my point.

To be fair, it was Uhura who asked who T’Pring was and not Chapel, but same difference. ;)

Correct. My bad. Chapel was on the bridge for that scene, however. I’ll have to look at the episode again to see if she got a reaction shot at the news. If she did, that doesn’t help Spock Amok.

SNW is 5 for 5. Reason? Great format, interesting and likeable characters and most importantly… competent writing! Picard and Discovery have excellent casts who have not been served well by poor and lazy writing. SNW is a joy to behold each and every week.

When I first heard the title I thought we were getting Spock in Pon Far again. When I got an episode synopsis the title implied to me that the episode would be a bit more madcap than what we got.

The episode was fine. Except, and believe me I hate whining about canon as I never really considered myself a ‘canon’ stickler, making Chapel aware of T’Pring was yet another HUGE mistake. Just like Arena plainly established no one knew about Gorn before Amok Time plainly made it clear that Chapel had zero idea Spock was engaged/betrothed/whatever it is. The weak part of it was the La’an/#1 stuff. I guess they didn’t have enough Spock story to fill the episode.

I have a question for those who are in charge of this show… Are you guys still insisting it’s a prime universe prequel? If you are then I really am forced to question how much you actually respect your source material. It’s clear that you know it. The Vulcan dream was spot on and I find myself wishing you folks extended that kind of detail to other sets and characters.

I’m acquainted with several published Trek authors. I won’t name drop but both told me there are many people behind the scenes that point out canon and continuity errors. They had communication with the writer’s room while fleshing out their stories. Mainly, it’s the pressures of production that cause “the bending of canon.” There are schedules and deadlines to make. Once a script gets locked, it’s filmed as written, even if there are canon issues. Also, as fans, getting a dream job, writing for Star Trek? There hasn’t been an island I’d die for, continuity wise, were I in their position. The reality is that we legacy fans can’t sustain Trek, financially. CBS wants eyeballs in front of Trek, and yes, sometimes they respected canon, bent it, or outright ignored it. JUST LIKE TOS DID. While I groan at some choices made, I’m happy to see the Enterprise on TV, for 10 weeks a year. I can always watch Spock’s Brain to clear my head…:-)

If true that there are people on staff who are telling them things like “You can’t use the Gorn because no one knew about them in Arena” or “You can’t have Chapel be involved or aware of any aspect of the Spock/T’Pring relationship because she had absolutely no clue about it on Amok Time” then it’s gravely disappointing that they are being ignored. And I honestly don’t see why. The Gorn thing was something that could have been easily fixed by using a different alien or making up a new one. I keep wondering why they felt they HAD to use that one? They could have had La’an be the person with Spock/T’Pring helping him out (which still “bends cannon a bit but not like using Chapel). These are issues that could be avoided with little effort at all. It’s one thing to “bend canon” it’s quite another to chuck firmly established elements out the window. I get that once a script is locked not much can be done but there is a process heading into that where these issues should have been addressed. Understood that legacy fans can’t sustain Trek. Making easy alterations to make the show work better with TOS is a good move since new fans likely don’t know the Gorn TOS history or that Chapel never knew about T’Pring and the move would please the legacy fans. It’s a win win.

You said that TOS ignored canon… What major Trek element did TOS ignore? And I really hope you are referring to the films and not the show since that show was a very different animal and only once do I recall a previous episode referenced by the characters.

If true that there are people on staff who are telling them things like “You can’t use the Gorn because no one knew about them in Arena” or “You can’t have Chapel be involved or aware of any aspect of the Spock/T’Pring relationship because she had absolutely no clue about it on Amok Time” then it’s gravely disappointing that they are being ignored

I don’t think it’s too much to ask that a prequel broadly honor the best episodes of a much-loved series that inspired it, and I dislike this “canonista” epithet being casually tossed around. If you want to make a prequel, make a prequel.

(On the narrower point of “no one knew about the Gorn in ‘Arena,”” I disagree; as I noted in another thread, “Arena” specifically references “space legends” about them.)

It is not too much to ask at all. Enterprise managed to do it. Although they did have the advantage of being further removed from TOS time wise. But I also recall Manny Coto saying how much he wanted to have a Gorn on Enterprise when he took over but he knew he couldn’t because it was established the Gorn were not seen or heard of until Arena. THAT is respect for the source material. His solution was to use the Gorn in a Mirror episode which doesn’t violate what was established in Arena.

And I think I mentioned that the line about “space legends” in Arena were obviously about the Metrons. Who had the highly advanced tech that would lend itself far more to “legends” than the Gorn. Who weren’t any more “lengend-y than most other yet to be seen species.

There’s also the example of MAD MEN, where the writers were sticklers for adhering to the timeline of real-life events, and which worked out well enough commercially.

I recall reading about one episode where they wanted to feature an Etch-a-Sketch; the plotline evidently got nixed because the Etch-a-Sketch wasn’t commercially realized in real life for several months after the date on which the episode was set.

I seem to recall noticing a couple of continuity goofs on MAD MEN, but damned if I can remember them now. Perhaps they have Don watching YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE many months before the film came out? Seemed to me one of them was Bond-related.

A series I otherwise absolutely adore, THE HOUR, totally messes up re: Bond. Though set around 1956 or 1957, the two leads do 60s-level Bond/Moneypenny banter (he actually often calls her Moneypenny!), even though that relationship is pretty much not there in dialog in the books written up to that point. In fact, except for Bond threatening to put Moneypenny over his knee in 1961’s THUNDERBALL, there’s nothing anywhere near as engaging as the Connery/Maxwell dialog in the 60s-era films.

Thanks dennycranium for this.

I’ve been trying to make some of these points, but not as well as you.

I understand that the creatives are going to be directed to use the things in TOS and Trek that have become recognizable in popular culture to draw new viewers in, and not to let canon get in the way of that.

I don’t see these as mistakes in many cases but smart marketing strategy and creative decisions.

My spouse and I are old fans who actually think that bending and even ignoring canon actually strengthens and redeems some of the incomprehensible but canonical moments (especially when canon wasn’t internally consistent WITHIN key episodes of TOS itself).

Our kids are actually picking up enough positives on SNW in social media that they are talking about the Gorn, and not as a joke meme. They are still hesitant to try SNW until the whole season has been reviewed (having been burnt and bitter about it on Picard S1), but the Gorn has them intrigued enough to be talking about watching SNW “if it doesn’t change and go bad in the middle of the season.”

Sorry but doing what you are saying is a loose loose. It doesn’t bring in new or younger fans any more than doing something more original would. And ignoring or retconning strongly fixated canon only turns off legacy fans. A win-win would be to make stories that respect and embrace canon but also doesn’t require new fans to be aware of the original stuff to still get, like and appreciate. The next best thing is to just make up new stuff that isn’t connected to TOS or just reboot it and do what you want. All those are more winning options than what they are doing now.

CBS wants eyeballs in front of Trek

Of course they do. How about coming up with some original stories, then, as opposed to retelling poor derivatives of “Amok Time”? (VOY and ENT both had pon farr episodes that paled in comparison to “Amok Time,” so admittedly this problem isn’t unique to SNW.)

Star Trek is a business similar to McDonald’s. Quantity, not quality, though you will probably find there are a surprising number of people in the world who consider McDonald’s to be of high quality. As you can see from a lot of the reaction to this and prior episodes, if you just repackage the same sound effects, lines of dialogue, settings, characters, in a slightly modernized veneer, the Star Trek product will be consumed with excitement and maintain a subscriber base.

No one overseeing or producing Trek today has any interest in and even less incentive to innovating or reinventing the next product in its next iteration. There’s more to lose than to gain.

Quantity, not quality, though you will probably find there are a surprising number of people in the world who consider McDonald’s to be of high quality.

Julia Child was one of them. But I digress.

Yeah, but this packaging is out of context. If TOS had done this, the switch would have happened during the teaser, not halfway through. That would give you time to really develop and work through stuff. (my SNW take is strictly going by what I read here, haven’t seen the eps except the first.)

The Admiralty uniform in Strange New Worlds is the Alliance officers’ uniform from Mass Effect.

What is ‘Mass Effect’? Is it on Paramount +?

It’s a series of videogames about a crew of humans and aliens working together to stop a threat called the Reapers that appears every 100,000 years to eradicate all organic life in the galaxy.

The synthetic big bad that was the real threat of Picard S1 was often called a knockoff of the Reapers

OK, thanks. That explains it. The only videogame I’ve ever played was Duke Nukem. Really.

Yeah I never heard of Mass Effect until Picard as well because there were so many comparing the two. However, I read even that is being made into a TV series now just like Halo was for Paramount+.I think Amazon is developing it.

Interesting; I’ll be curious to see how it turns out. FWIW I enjoyed the first season of Halo. It’s fairly different from the games in a lot of ways (and that angered the fanboys to no end( but also has more than enough similarities to make it relatable to the universe it is based on. I thought the characters were interesting and some of the action scenes were quite impressive. Really curious to see where they go with S2.

Even though I knew nothing about Halo (but heard of it) I did plan to watch the show. I watched the first episode and liked it, but not super impressed either. But then I listened to reviews of episode 2 where people were trashing it and I just put it off to the point I now missed the entire season lol. I know there is a divide with fans who are just disappointed it doesn’t really follow the video game vs people who just thought the story they were telling wasn’t great but it sounds like you recommend it.

I still want to watch it, but in this day and age where there is SO MUCH content, it’s hard to focus on shows people are only ‘meh’ on. But I do want to give it a chance.

I definitely would recommend you check out Halo when you have a chance. It’s only 6 episodes so you should be able to burn thru it quickly. Not being familiar with the games is probably an advantage here as you can just evaluate it on its own merits.

Cool TonyD! I’ll give it another chance then. As I said, I did like the first episode, it just wasn’t something I felt the urge to watch right away and so many seemed unhappy with the other episodes. But I thought it was 9 episodes? But will give it a shot.

Huge fan of Duke Nukem, once upon a time.

Well if you’re only going to play one game, that is a good one. :)

OMG this was stupid! The body swap bit and Una and La’an suddenly turning into frat girls just drove this episode over a cliff. Not to mention that in “Amok Time” the episode that takes place in the future of this show Chapel did not know who T’Pring was when she made her appearance. I didn’t even finish this one.

Take a chill pill. And don’t take yourself (and the TV shows you watch) so seriously. Don’t be the guy where fun dies.

I liked the episode except for blatantly ignoring the fact that Chapel had no idea who T’Pring was in Amok Time.

But I don’t think it cool to rip someone just because they hold a different opinion. You disagree, point it out and perhaps you could have a back and forth for why something was liked or not.

Chocolate is serious business, Anthony. And footy isn’t a matter of life and death; it’s much more serious than that.

I struggled with it too. The body swap bits were mildly entertaining for a little while, but I wish they had gone with Uhura or Chapel instead. T’Pring just isn’t that interesting to me.

I’m with you on the frat girl stuff, though. That Lower Decks level stuff throws me right out of the episode every time. Fine for a cartoon, less so here.

I did like the twist with the aliens in the end. That was nice.

The fake melodrama of some fans is just embarrassing.

Although I loved the episode I get why the Chapel and T’Pring appearance would bother people. But guys, I’m just being honest here, how long did people expect to keep that game up if she is a recurring character and will probably be showing up every season?

That was always going to be the problem. We’re only at episode 5. Is Spock just going to meet her on shore leave or any time they are back at Vulcan? Will people really believe no one would know the guy has a fiance the way that crew gabs to each other? Or they would know he’s secretly seeing someone but not ever learn her name? It was going to feel silly after awhile so the producers decided just treat it like a regular relationship instead of some cloak and dagger thing for the next 5 seasons.

If they wanted to keep the canon to Amok Time, then you really can’t have T’Pring at all on this show. So I get the dilemma. They have a character they can really want to develop and give Spock an actual relationship but then they have this one episode from 50 years ago to think about. It’s why I say yes it probably should’ve just been a reboot but that was never in the cards.

I’m wondering why it has to be T’Pring at all in this series. Couldn’t Spock just as well have a relationship without someone who isn’t betrothed to him or whatever? He didn’t seem overly enamored with the idea, or with her for that matter, in Amok Time, anyway.

But could he though? It’s basically a life time arranged marriage. They don’t have to treat Vulcan relationships like human but every Vulcan relationship we seen like T’Pol and Tuvok followed the same customs and seem to just stay with one mate until someone just ends the relationship. And we know how Spock and T’Pring ends lol.

But we know Spock did have another relationship with a different character. Her name is not coming to me, but the one from This Side of Paradise. Maybe they will bring her into it as well. So could be wrong and it will be proven Vulcans can just have other relationships. But the way they talk about their bonding on this show, it just doesn’t seem realistic.

Hmm, good point. I honestly can’t remember that much about Spock’s love life from TOS, ha. I always got the feeling that maybe they could have relationships like humans, but I could be completely wrong about that.

Leila Kalomi was right there. Could’ve been a nice mix of “The Cage” canon and the actual TOS canon.

Yes, thank you. I forgot all about her.

Entertaining episode; lightweight and breezy and nothing wrong with that. The humor here actually felt funny to me and I didn’t get that cringey feeling like I did when Burnham or Tilly tried to be funny. I used to think it was the writing but I’m now firmly in the camp that SNW just has much better actors. I’m actually able to laugh with these characters, not at them. The subplot with No. 1 and La’an trying to learn how to have fun was a bit flat but didn’t drag the show down. I liked Chapel’s interactions here, though I still don’t see any similarity the TOS version (other than a budding romantic interest in Spock) and part of me wishes they just gave her another name and made her an original character. The diplomatic subplot and Pike’s resolution was well handled I thought.

I am finding Spock and T’Pring’s courtship a bit odd in the context of Vulcan lore. It looks like the 7 year mating cycle is out the window as they seem to engage in regular acts of affection. Did that aspect of Vulcan culture change at some point? Given that the writers love to pull stuff from past shows, I’m also kind of surprised Spock and T’Pring never touch fingers like we saw on TOS and even with Saavik and young Spock in TSFS. Did I miss such an interaction?

Overall though another very watchable episode. I’m especially impressed that the cast is really showing strong chemistry right out of the gate.

Yeah, I too liked the humour of this episode. Ironically, the DS9 episode, “Take me out to the Halosuite” aired on the Sci-Fi Channel up here just before tonight’s SNW episode.

Btw yeah they had the Vulcan finger interaction while T’Pring and Spock started to exchange katras.

*Warning: Shamelessly engaging in cultural philosophizing ahead*: To me, Peck’s Spock appears more open emotionally than Nimoy. While Nimoy appeared truly alien, Peck does not appear so alien to me and in my opinion gets across more the aspect of Spock being “a half-breed”. (This again is very much in line with what Nimoy himself said about his character according to Wikipedia: “Spock understands the trauma of human existence, for he is not home with earthmen or Vulcan; he can function only in the fabricated and neatly ordered society of the Enterprise. There, he knows who he is; he relates to his role very specifically, and this gives him a kind of cool.” It’s also interesting because here Nimoy explains the fact-oriented nature of Spock not only as a product of Vulcan logic, but as a consequence of his facts-oriented work function giving him a stable identity). Back then Nimoy became a sex symbol, probably because of representing the archetype of the tall, dark and emotionally repressed lone stranger, probably inviting a desire to crack him emotionally, garnished with a (in the 60s probably still somewhat scandalous) devil-like appearance and the added benefit of truly good intentions. And that hard-to-get appeal was probably amplified by that scandalous total loss of control every 7 years of an otherwise totally controlled character. View this on a historical background of the 60s where desires of budding sexual liberation probably met with many an emotionally repressed upbringing, and it becomes plausible why his character might become a projection target for viewers’ frustrations and desires alike. (You could speculate that in the eyes of the viewer, Spock was both that unavailable spouse and – every 7 yrs – the extreme embodiment of sexual drive. And maybe every spouse in an unhappy marriage following the narrative of “changing and saving their man”.) So yeah, I wondered too, did they toss Pon Farr, or was it always that Vulcans had an archaic mating drive take over their hormones every 7 yrs but didn’t mean they couldn’t apply their own free will to the same application otherwise :-)?
Anyway, Peck doesn’t have that same aloofness that Nimoy did IMO, he seems a bit more open and uncertain to me. It remains to be seen if this is because young Spock is still finding his role and will become TOS Spock? Will he still incite desires of achieving emotional connection? (Characters opening up to emotional connection are the subject of countless books, films and fanfictions.) Or is it an updated take on the character that is aiming to present him as attractive also via focussing on other aspects considered appealing in a partner today (such as honesty and opening up emotionally when Spock confides in Chapel…)? If Chapel has a crush on him, it also serves making Spock attractive. (*cultural philosophy rant finished*…my apologies, sometimes Trek does that to me, not to say I don’t enjoy it :-)

Peck’s Spock is definitely different from the Spock we saw in TOS. It can be distracting to a degree but then I remember back to The Cage where Spock smiles when touching the flowers and shows more emotion in general (“THE WOMEN!!!”) so you could as you said make the argument that he is very much trying to sort thru his half human / half Vulcan heritage and figure out just who he is at this point in his life. We may well see the events that cause him to become alienated from T’Pring (their relationship seems a far cry from the bits we saw in Amok Time) as well as become the more reserved and private character that he is later in life. Or the producers may just go in their own direction in trying to make the show and characters more accessible to a wider, more mainstream audience, inconsistencies be damned. Doesn’t really bother me either way; just curious to see where it all eventually lands.

Thanks for the reminder about The Cage. I always think it somewhat accidental canon as I imagine writers made some character adjustments following the pilot. Thinking further about what you say, I’d lean towards SNW Spock not becoming TOS Spock – if years of extra-Vulcan upbringing have not wiped that open look from his face, what would need to happen for Starfleet to achieve that? Unless it’s possibly an “embracing his roots” thing, or setting himself apart from humans through his competitive strength when he can’t be fully human either, or the result of impactful events. Burying one’s personality under a substitute work persona may not necessarily be a desirable goal :). A success story where Spock grows into a less emotional person would be the opposite direction of usual storytelling. “Child of two cultures” remains just as current a topic now as then. So there seem to be lots of opportunities for storytelling and I am curious, too.

This episode felt like Classic, Original STAR TREK….A 3rd SEASON EPISODE! Only took them 5 episodes to screw things up! This episode REAKED of 3rd Season AT IT’S WORSE…

Opening up the episode with the classic TOS fight music. I was smiling so hard that my jaw hurt, hahaha. Absolutely awesome and outstanding.

Same. I was sitting here thinking ‘cool, cool, but they probably will use some soundalike music, for copyright reasons or whatever.’ But then… :)

Once his ears were gone I knew it was a dream sequence. And when they used the Fried cues it cemented that it was. But I also found it disappointing because they got that Vulcan set so very right and couldn’t get the Enterprise (and other elements) quite right. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not hating it. Just that they could have evoked the feel of the TOS era better.

ML 31 complaining that this show isn’t 1960s TOS yet again

You are wrong. I have never complained the show wasn’t 1960’s. Ever.

Next time you make an assumption regarding a comment I make please ask me if you got it right before spouting off the nonsense.

You LITERALLY are doing exactly that above:

But I also found it disappointing because they got that Vulcan set so very right and couldn’t get the Enterprise (and other elements) quite right. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not hating it. Just that they could have evoked the feel of the TOS era better.”

You are directly complaining above that SNW Enterprise isn’t quite right. You want a TOS era feel. Thats a 1960’s feel. Its 2022. It was never going to feel and look exactly the same on 4K screens with 2022 sensibilities. Move on.

Things I really liked about this episode – having just watched Amok Time the other night, seeing the nuances brought to this episode from that one – the music, the rip in his shirt in the same place Kirk’s was. Great homages. Anson Mount does excellent work here again, loved the scene where he finds out the Vulcans switched bodies, very funny. I thought bingo would be goofy, but it turned out to be pretty amusing to watch. Solid chemistry between the cast, and they all showed a lot of range. And of course the production values are just fantastic. If I had to criticize anything about SNW, it would just be that I wish they’d left legacy characters out of it with the exception of Pike, but at this point it doesn’t matter. Canon is pretty much shot to hell and we’re on our way to a TOS reboot, but I’m along for the ride with this crew and I’ve enjoyed the first 5 episodes. Looking forward to more..

I too wish they would have left Uhura and Chapel out of the show. Although I don’t think they have messed up Uhura they way they have Chapel. Uhura is working for me. But the fact that she is there has potential to mess up SNW episodes depending on what the subject matter is.

Yes, this show is being treated like a complete reboot even though we’ve been told it’s not. I find that difficult to reconcile. If it does lead into a TOS reboot as you suggest I wouldn’t have too much a problem but would they FINALLY admit this is a reboot?

Another complaint that it’s not the same as TOS

Another error by Val Jean. That is not the complaint.

Again, when responding about a comment I make please ask me about it before spouting your nonsense. I will be happy to clarify.

The Vulcan gong sounded the same, and the shakers, the lirpa weapons. Then the original Amok Time music too? OMG!

I haven’t caught the episode but saw the clip and was struck by that as well. Nice attention to detail.

This episode was sublime.

A few years ago, I was in Tokyo with my girlfriend. We found a bar that featured a jazz trio playing the most contemplative slow classic jazz. Think Miles Davis and Kind Of Blue. There were Japanese people there obviously, Americans, Romanians, and people from Africa as I recall. Anyway she and I spent the evening listening to mellow sounds, eating sushi, and sharing souls. It was a perfect evening in Tokyo in that all the pieces fit and worked effortlessly.

To me, this episode is the same. Perfectly played. Effortlessly delivered. Full of mellow and contemplative notes like jazz and a fine wine. Just amazing.

This was a new, different, perfect and classic moment of Trek for me.

Wow!

I think it would be fun if we list other Star Trek characters “where fun goes to die!” I actually posted this idea on another site but here are five candidates I mentioned before:

-Odo

-Reed

-Worf

-Boimler (You can argue he can be fun when he has to be)

-Tuvok

Any other takers?

Yeah Worf for sure and Tuvok, but I have to say the winner is Admiral Blackwell who seemed rather unimpressed with Captain Picard Day haha! Btw, Enterprise bingo is cool!

LOL Admiral Blackwell couldn’t find a personality if they transported her one. I was thinking of main characters though since we seen their entire personalities but yeah anyone is fair game. Thinking about it, most of Starfleet higher brass seems like the dullest people in the alpha quadrant.

And I loved Enterprise bingo! It did feel a bit like filler in the episode but it is a fun story concept.

Haha I won’t be surprised if Mariner, Boimler and the rest of the gang are playing Cerritos bingo sometime next season!

Picard: “You see, I’m a role model.”
Admiral Blackwell: “I’m sure you are.”

That bit had me rolling back in the day.

Interesting how most of those characters are security officers.

Yeah true. And while I only named one, most Vulcans can definitely fall into that category as well. Tuvok falls into both. ;)

Reg Barclay, and I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest Matt Decker.

Barclay has serious social issues for sure. Decker did come off ultra serious but I think he would be a cool guy to have a synthehol beer with.

Not a Starfleet crew member but ML31? :)

Before I spout nonsense about what you mean I am going to ask… What do you mean by that?

I thought “Spock Amok” was a hoot. And double bonus: we got two episodes of “The Orville” in one day—the genuine article on Hulu and the cosplay on Paramount+. 8-)

Loved it! This. Is. Star Trek. What a great show on so many levels.

I didn’t think this was a particularly good episode, but it had its moments. I do wish somebody associated with these shows would figure out how to write Vulcans again; I might be mistaken, but I think T’Pring said “Seriously?” at some point, and, uh, no. No, that’s not a thing a Vulcan would say.

Also…

Look, I’m gonna be crass here, but somebody needs to say it. (For all I know, someone already has, I skipped the comments on this one.) They went to all the trouble of writing an episode where Spock and T’Pring swapped bodies and then also had sex, but failed to have them have sex while they were in different bodies? That’s rather a missed writing opportunity.

I rewatced the episode again today and what I found more funny was Pike’s total non-reaction to the fact two people managed to switch bodies. This is when you know you live in the Star Trek universe lol. No one is panicking, no urgent calls to sickbay, suggesting to bring in a team of specialist to figure it out, nothing. Pike just lets out a laugh, kind of shrugs and like ‘Wow, really? That’s unfortunate, but we have an actual crisis brewing. You guys can work all that out later I guess.”

In the world of Star Trek, this is just another Tuesday for Starfleet officers….or in this case maybe Friday. ;)

Totally Tiger2.

Also Chapel and M’Benga’s reactions. She’s practica, telling Spock that he needs to deal with the problem in the moment and use it for the relationship opportunity it is. For M’Benga it’s a cool opportunity to try out a new treatment approach he’s been working on.

Imagine how that must come across to new Trek viewers who haven’t seen this before.

I love how SNW is just diving in and doing it.

Yeah everyone is so nonchalant about it! They are a little surprised when they are told but then just treat it like its not a big deal. This is proof that these people have seen waaaaay too much lol. It’s another reason why I love Lower Decks. the show makes fun of the absurdity that happens Star Trek, but in a fun and loving way. I even rewatched the episode yesterday where the ensigns have to collect all the crazy and freaky anomalies from crew quarters (or trash day as Mariner calls it) and it’s funny the stuff they pick up is considered trash because it’s not bizarre ENOUGH to keep studying lol.

But as Janeway once famously said, “We’re Starfleet officers Mr. Kim, weird is part of the job!”

People complaining about the body swap because “Spock and T’Pring are too alike” are… completely missing the point.

It’s amazing to me how many Trek fans focus so much on stuff like that… and on continuity, canon, the science or the special effects, costumes, visuals, etc and completely lose sight about THE STORY.

The point of this body swap wasn’t to bring jokes or point out the differences between two characters, it was to explore the relationship between Spock and T’Pring. If the swap had been Spock and Chapel, you lose the point of it entirely.

And what gets me about this is that the point of the episode here is literally spelled out in dialogue in the episode. It’s the entire reason they do it, and it’s the reason T’Pring suggests they run with it when it goes wrong. Sigh. I can’t even anymore with you people. You’re so eager to dislike the episode you don’t listen to the dialog

I understand your exasperation Alphapredator.

I found the episode and the subtlety of the comedy of manners between Spock and T’Pring delightful. I was glad that it wasn’t broad or stinging comedy.

The thing is that while I was watching, I was very conscious of the flip no matter how tightly tamped down their Vulcan emotional expression.

I was very impressed by Gia Sandhu, and felt she did an excellent job acting as Spock, capturing both Peck and Nimoy. I hadn’t expected that would be possible.

I was very surprised that others here didn’t pick up on that.

It seems as though prior belief that swaps should be of radically different personalities got in the way of paying attention to the dialogue and performance.

While I understand that there are some neurodivergent folks on this board (because they have shared that), I am still surprised by the proportion of people with this view.

Overall, the point of having an episodic format is to allow the show itself to appeal to different target audiences and demographics.

I’m comfortable and that the demographic represented on this board isn’t entirely happy with every episode. I’m just surprised that they are coming across as entitled to be.

You know, it is possible to get the point and understand everything that happened in an episode and still not like it, or not like specific elements. Also possible to wish it had gone in a different direction.

I see this tactic more and more now. Someone who criticizes something is attacked for “not getting it.” Yeah, that doesn’t work. That’s not how criticism works. That’s not how any of this works. Saying someone doesn’t get it without evidence that they don’t comes across as a cheap shot to get some modicum of superiority over another. Enough already.

Agreed and I gave the episode a 9/10. But not everyone is going to like something even if they followed it like everyone else. Most gave their reasons why they didn’t like it and you just have to accept it. You can disagree as I have but yeah it’s OK they don’t like it either.

And one of the reasons I do love this site is that most people here are sharp and educated. I learn a lot just reading other people’s posts here and I don’t mean just about Star Trek obviously.

We’re Star Trek fans, we’ll watch it all but not love it all. That’s been happening forever now lol; especially on this board.

Well put.

Uh, I do get that point. Yep, I heard it right there in the dialogue, too. My point is that I’d rather see a comedy, or “hijinks,” involving Spock and someone who is very different from him. I don’t care about his relationship with T’Pring. Never have. I still don’t after watching this.

May I add, please consider Trek has an international audience and non-native speakers may not always be able to catch all dialogue upon first viewing.

My comment about “Spock and T-Pring appearing alike” did not oppose the idea of them swapping bodies at all – in fact I found that a great idea totally in line with the “stepping into each other’s shoes” theme of the episode, it just meant that I had a bit of trouble keeping them apart.

Most people seem to like it though. Even the people who didn’t don’t seem to hate it, just saying why they had issues with it. No offense but you come off very offended every episode some people have issues with the show. I don’t understand how in 2022 people are still upset because you see negative opinions on a message board on anything. It’s just how it is; this board especially.

But the reality is most people actually are enjoying it. Just focus on that then being offended not everyone loves it as much as you do. But every season there is 1 or 2 posters who just chime in how much they hate people who say bad things about any of the shows. If people are this upset about it, then just create a fan page on Facebook or something and you can have a complete echo chamber.

Right, I thought the episode was a mixed bag. Some good stuff, other bits I didn’t like.

But this is the first one. So far, I’m loving this show.

Some of us actually want to hear all sides to an argument, that’s why I come here. I can’t think of a single instance I have been upset because someone said they don’t like a show or episode that I do. I don’t take any of this stuff that seriously. I am committed to the show obviously but its still just a show. If you are too thin skinned hearing someone thinks Lower Decks, SNW, Discovery, DS9 or whatever sucks, then you have to get thicker skin or find a more friendlier place to go.

And nothing anyone said here against this episode is a big deal. And comedic Star Trek episodes have always been more divided than not; this is actually one of the lesser ones.

What? Are you sure you’re replying to the right person?

Yeah, I was agreeing with you! I know tone can be hard to read at times.

Sorry, I didn’t realize you were speaking in general terms. My mistake, never mind.

No worries! :)

I “got it” and thought the writers bailed on their own idea. Spock and T’Pring didn’t come to any sort of understanding. Spock in T’Pring’s body punching out a dude and T’Pring in Spock’s body getting bailed out by a Pike speech doesn’t deliver the promise of the premise. It’s amazing how many Trek fans focus on what other Trek fans think about an episode.

I hate to keep bringing up David Gerrold, but there’s a quote from Diane Duane in her intro to a 1980 edition of Gerrold’s YESTERDAY’S CHILDREN where she mentions how much Gerrold hates when a good notion is brought up and then not fully wrung out storywise, and he was very critical of young writers who would come up with a strong gimmick and not carry it through to fruition. Sounds like that criticism would be very appropriate here, regardless of the experience level of those writing and producing SNW.

I guess I’m a slight outlier here — I didn’t find this episode particularly funny. At least not the “laugh out loud delightful romp!” that it’s being portrayed as. Don’t get me wrong–I thoroughly enjoyed it! It was indeed a lighter episode than the previous one, and welcome break from the life-death pyrotechnics. The bending of canon doesn’t even really bother me that much, either.

But the pacing felt a bit odd, and it took nearly half the episode before the body swap kicked in. There was also probably one too many sub-plots. I would have preferred losing Chapel’s pining-for-Spock story to give a bit more space for the body swap and alien negotiations (which ended up a pretty interesting take from Pike that was rushed).

That is one of my criticisms with the episode, it took a bit too long for the body swap. I didn’t really notice it the first viewing but on the second, I realized it happened nearly at the half way mark. Not that bad because there were other things going on of course but the pacing could’ve been a little stronger. I still love it regardless.

It was wonderful to see them use the Sail Ship from DS9. I loved that episode and the ship design.
This show is doing it so right. Such a relief after the over drama and tension and boredom of Discovery and Picard was not much better. I love this show so far.

Did anyone notice or have the impression that the Enterprise in the background looked more white? I had the impression the Enterprise looked a bit closer to the classic design. Maybe they are shifting her design gradually after each repair. ;-)
And what was going on between Chapel and Ortega? A “bromance”? A secret crush on Chapel?

I honestly thought we were going to find out Ortega has a thing for Chapel. Happy I wasn’t the only one who picked up on that.

It obviously isn’t obvious, but very subtle. I mean, the body language on the pics gives a hint. Hehe… Maybe Chapel is for Ortegas what Spock is for Chapel.

I just found some screencaps and the Enterprise looks indeed more TOS-ish. Just the proportions are a bit off. The neck is too short.

OK, I just looked at the list from the review for Enterprise Bingo. One of the activities mentioned replicating some type of fruit. Can someone clear this up for me, are there replicators in the 23rd century or not?? On TNG, it was implied that was invented in the 24th century but Discovery has always been a bit vague with it. They never said the word replicator but could assume things did get replicated like food or clothes. But now on this show it’s called a replicator.

So is that just a mistake or is replicator technology a pre-TOS invention now?

Can’t help about the replicator, but if I remember correctly the fruit was a Durian, the ultimate smelly fruit featured heavily on shows like “I’m a celebrity, get me out of here” and banned from public consumption in parts of Asia

Thanks anyway. I never had Durian but yes I know it is famous for its smell. Didn’t know it was banned in certain countries though lol.

The replicator thing is not a huge deal, I have no issues if it’s suppose to exist in the 23rd century since these new shows don’t really feel that less advanced than the 24th century anymore. I just wish they made it more clear.

This was a fun episode. ST:SNW is really good.

Since the admiral was on board, instead of telling Pike about the mind switch, T’Spock and Pring could have told him it was an April fool’s joke.